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| 01:14.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a sidenote: our r.m.o upstream is down to 8.5Mb/s average |
| 01:14.44 | ecc3g | because of throttling or demand went down?? |
| 01:15.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite a difference to the 10fold we seen a few days ago |
| 01:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | no throttling |
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| 01:15.20 | ecc3g | ah. |
| 01:17.31 | ecc3g | any ideas what it was before the downtime? |
| 01:17.46 | robbiethe1st | ? |
| 01:17.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | we had >4000 concurrent connections when we ran into throttling of ISP at 25Mb/s and nothing worked for anybody. We went down to ~450 c.c. when upstream got beefed up to 100Mb/s burst. Now we're at 200 c.c. |
| 01:18.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ecc3g: nope, since that been Akamai server farm |
| 01:18.36 | ecc3g | wish they told what to expect |
| 01:18.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | We only know from x-fade that there been 30k N900 plus 10k other maemo devices on that server farm |
| 01:19.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually we might want to check how many our logs suggest we got now |
| 01:20.09 | ecc3g | how do you check, or just an estimate by ip address? |
| 01:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 01:20.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | not much else we could do |
| 01:20.29 | ecc3g | (like I've connected my phone from a few ip addresses...) |
| 01:21.15 | ecc3g | ah ok, just wonderring if there was an identifier sent or not... |
| 01:21.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'd check for unique IP during 24h, downloading resp getting header of Packages.gz |
| 01:21.54 | ecc3g | i think redhat 9 made an unique code for each install and used that to identify to its repos. Not sure how debian does it. |
| 01:22.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | only very few devices would change IP and then do update again |
| 01:22.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least I hope that's what HAM does |
| 01:22.51 | ecc3g | I admit I did it a few times from different addresses when it was failing to sync... |
| 01:23.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can filter out aborted updates - though there shouldn't be any now |
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| 01:30.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | $ netstat -nt|wc -l |
| 01:30.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | 186 |
| 01:31.48 | ecc3g | at 8.5MB/sec 186 connections, average of 45KB/sec/user? |
| 01:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5.54Mb/s |
| 01:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | top 20 run from 900..100kb/s |
| 01:33.27 | ecc3g | oh... whoops wrong unit...5.54Mb/sec is really slow... must be a lot of GSM/2G updates |
| 01:34.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | peaks 3.5Mb/s |
| 01:34.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1s peak |
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| 01:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3.80 |
| 01:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4.49 |
| 01:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | 40s peak 3.9Mb/s now |
| 01:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | 220 c.c |
| 01:39.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | root@stage:~# netstat -nt|grep -c ESTABLISHED |
| 01:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | 104 |
| 01:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh lol, my karma really suffered during migration ;-P |
| 01:46.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | 96 |
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| 01:47.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess I can't stay on council with this X-P |
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| 01:54.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | karma defunct - problem with next elections anticipated |
| 01:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | with my current karma, I wouldn't have been allowed to run for council. And I guess our voters' base is considerably slow right now |
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| 01:56.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the funny stuff: we can't even change the rules since that needs a referendum, and a referendum needs... karma |
| 02:10.18 | merlin1991 | yeah, it's the tmo and the wiki conenction that is lost |
| 02:11.28 | merlin1991 | for me the wiki karma did a huge dent, I'm down to 34 :D |
| 02:21.55 | SpeedEvil | just fix irc karma |
| 02:33.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 02:34.28 | merlin1991 | irc karma would be awesome |
| 02:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually that would be as much cheating as not fixing tmo and wiki |
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| 02:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I guess finding a semi-decent formula to calculate karma based on IRC is not trivial |
| 02:36.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the formula shall be reasonable and not give spambots most karma points |
| 02:36.12 | merlin1991 | yeah, how do you filter off topic, jokes, cynicsm, unhelpfull stuff, trolls, .... |
| 02:37.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I guess the only proper metrics would be "talk threads" |
| 02:37.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | number of replies to replies to replies.... |
| 02:37.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a timeout |
| 02:38.47 | SpeedEvil | threading is annoyingly hard |
| 02:39.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | 10 virtual points for each reply you gave in a "thread", 5 points for each reply somebody else gave in same thread |
| 02:39.48 | merlin1991 | SpeedEvil: threading is easy, getting the friggin stuff in snyc is the problem ;) |
| 02:39.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2 points for replies B gave to C in a thread where A participated |
| 02:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | also 2 points for follow-up lines like this one |
| 02:41.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so this |
| 02:41.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | would give |
| 02:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | 6 points |
| 02:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | not 30 |
| 02:41.54 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 02:42.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even give minus points for more than 8 lines in a row |
| 02:43.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | should help against monologues like my usual ones |
| 02:45.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | what we definitely will NOT use, is infobot's karma |
| 02:46.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's tmo thanks storm at it's worst. Rather what could become of tmo thanks when we'd get blame button as well |
| 02:47.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma SpeedEvil |
| 02:47.41 | infobot | speedevil has karma of 1 |
| 02:47.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma DocScrutinizer05 |
| 02:47.57 | infobot | docscrutinizer05 has neutral karma |
| 02:48.02 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 02:48.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ SpeedEvil++ |
| 02:48.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma DocScrutinizer05 |
| 02:48.33 | infobot | docscrutinizer05 has neutral karma |
| 02:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma SpeedEvil |
| 02:48.39 | infobot | speedevil has karma of 1 |
| 02:48.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 02:48.46 | SpeedEvil | odd |
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| 02:48.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~SpeedEvil ++ |
| 02:49.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma SpeedEvil |
| 02:49.07 | infobot | speedevil has karma of 1 |
| 02:49.22 | SpeedEvil | hmm... |
| 02:49.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily I even forgot how it works |
| 02:49.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~++ SpeedEvil |
| 02:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma SpeedEvil |
| 02:49.53 | infobot | speedevil has karma of 1 |
| 02:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~SpeedEvil++ |
| 02:50.46 | SpeedEvil | maybe it's broken. |
| 02:50.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma SpeedEvil |
| 02:50.53 | infobot | speedevil has karma of 2 |
| 02:51.05 | SpeedEvil | I recall it working at one point |
| 02:51.12 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 02:51.26 | merlin1991 | and what did it do? |
| 02:51.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nuttin but print "2" now |
| 02:52.03 | merlin1991 | so it was just a counter? |
| 02:52.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 02:52.15 | merlin1991 | ever used? |
| 02:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah |
| 02:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually not |
| 02:52.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma microsoft |
| 02:52.43 | infobot | microsoft has karma of -4 |
| 02:53.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~karma poettering |
| 02:53.20 | infobot | poettering has neutral karma |
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| 05:53.45 | iluminator105 | Hurrian, how do you revert back to stock camera |
| 05:53.52 | iluminator105 | app |
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| 07:04.09 | iluminator105 | Hurrian, check you log you give the answer before |
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| 07:31.03 | kerio | ~karma chameleon |
| 07:31.03 | infobot | chameleon has karma of 1 |
| 07:31.17 | kerio | pff, no boy george reference |
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| 08:50.54 | ccxCZ | kerio, merlin1991, DocScrutinizer05: just realized that back when talking about eudev I ought to tell you the current channel for it is #gentoo-udev |
| 08:51.27 | ccxCZ | so you can go there and ask the devs directly |
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| 08:55.21 | ccxCZ | ponders about changing the led in open state to display paging/card io/wlan io |
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| 10:54.45 | teotwaki | 11:54:14 up 983 days, 21:08, 1 user, load average: 1.04, 1.07, 1.07 |
| 10:55.13 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 10:56.25 | teotwaki | and seeing that |
| 10:56.31 | teotwaki | the sysop next to me just went "reboot". |
| 10:56.53 | jacekowski | teotwaki: that's a lot of unpatched bugs |
| 10:57.12 | teotwaki | jacekowski: yeah, it's also completely off the grid, so no real issues there. |
| 10:57.28 | teotwaki | and I think they use the non-reboot kernel replacement. |
| 10:57.35 | jacekowski | that's somewhere around 2.6.20 kernel probably |
| 10:57.46 | jacekowski | you can't replace kernel without reboots |
| 10:57.52 | jacekowski | ksplices can only patch very limited things |
| 10:58.23 | teotwaki | 2.6.18 :) |
| 10:58.46 | teotwaki | jacekowski: to be honest, if someone gets into the network, they don't need kernel exploits to root the machines... |
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| 11:17.23 | kerio | teotwaki: and that's also bad |
| 11:17.33 | kerio | jacekowski: technically you can replace the kernel without rebooting |
| 11:17.40 | kerio | /dev/kmem is writable by root |
| 11:17.52 | kerio | you have to be very good, though :P |
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| 11:19.33 | fizzie | kexec might not technically count as a "real" reboot either. (Not that it probably existed 983 days ago.) |
| 11:19.47 | kerio | fizzie: ksplice doesn't use kexec, i think |
| 11:19.56 | kerio | they just backport patches as modules, or some weird shit like that |
| 11:20.03 | kerio | and only security patches |
| 11:20.55 | fizzie | Sure, but it didn't seem to be entirely clear what "the non-reboot kernel replacement" was. |
| 11:22.22 | kerio | and yeah, kexec is definetely cheating |
| 11:23.30 | SpeedEvil | suspend to disk is cheating harder |
| 11:24.59 | teotwaki | kerio: never said it was good :) |
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| 11:25.14 | kerio | SpeedEvil: wait, suspend to disk and then boot with a different kernel? |
| 11:25.22 | kerio | ...would that even work? |
| 11:26.04 | teotwaki | kerio: but frankly, there's very little chance anyone could get through. There's an ssh that only listens on an admin-only hard wire, which needs to be connected manually, all other traffic is pure application traffic. |
| 11:26.35 | kerio | teotwaki: have you checked all the CVEs that apply to the current kernel? |
| 11:26.49 | teotwaki | kerio: if there's no way to reach it, does it matter? |
| 11:27.17 | kerio | maybe there's a remote execution/priviledge escalation bug that's exploitable via ICMP packets |
| 11:27.24 | kerio | or ARP requests |
| 11:27.42 | teotwaki | Erhm, how should I put this. |
| 11:27.58 | teotwaki | kerio: there's nothing else on that network. |
| 11:28.05 | kerio | then what use is it? :o |
| 11:28.11 | SpeedEvil | oh, no |
| 11:28.24 | SpeedEvil | same kernel |
| 11:28.47 | kerio | SpeedEvil: what happens if you use a different kernel? |
| 11:28.54 | kerio | shit breaks horrendously? |
| 11:29.10 | Aoyagi_joytop | panic |
| 11:29.21 | kerio | actually, isn't the kernel loaded in ram anyway? |
| 11:29.24 | teotwaki | kerio: we run a couple hundred servers, please don't assume you know everything there is to know. |
| 11:30.05 | kerio | wouldn't the original kernel get restored? |
| 11:30.14 | teotwaki | kerio: our use cases may differ vastly from what "classical" production does. |
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| 11:31.53 | kerio | hm, according to hitup.org there's a dude who has 11 years of uptime on a mac |
| 11:32.41 | jacekowski | as far as i know it's impossible |
| 11:33.19 | kerio | jacekowski: perhaps he's running os x beta? |
| 11:33.33 | kerio | even 10.0 would work, it's been released in 2001 |
| 11:33.36 | jacekowski | iirc, there is something about how the uptime is stored |
| 11:33.39 | Aoyagi_joytop | Impossible? |
| 11:33.49 | jacekowski | and clock will reset after 420 days or something |
| 11:34.09 | kerio | Max Uptime:17 Years 6 Days 21 Hours 47 Minutes |
| 11:34.14 | kerio | but it's a cluster, i don't know if it counts |
| 11:34.17 | kerio | http://www.uptimes-project.org/hosts/view/150 |
| 11:34.46 | jacekowski | uuuuu |
| 11:34.52 | jacekowski | 95.32 idle |
| 11:34.56 | teotwaki | Total Uptime:86 Years 63 Days 9 Hours 47 Minutes |
| 11:34.59 | jacekowski | sounds fake for a cluster |
| 11:35.01 | teotwaki | wait, what? |
| 11:35.39 | zl2tod | uptime * noofprocessors |
| 11:35.57 | teotwaki | which is a pretty stupid metric |
| 11:36.14 | kerio | http://www.uptimes-project.org/hosts/view/27 ok, this website is bullshit |
| 11:36.51 | jacekowski | not if he has 4x 8 core xeon |
| 11:36.56 | jacekowski | with HT |
| 11:37.03 | jacekowski | that would be 64 visible cores |
| 11:37.16 | kerio | hm, 4 years |
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| 11:37.57 | jacekowski | but yeah, whole uptime thing is easy to fake |
| 11:40.20 | kerio | jacekowski: more importantly, where's the nuclear reactor to power the xeons? |
| 11:40.48 | Gh0sty | dont forget the cooling towers! :p |
| 11:41.04 | teotwaki | Cool Towers? I use the moon as my heatsink, bitches. |
| 11:41.11 | Gh0sty | :P |
| 11:41.26 | kerio | space is actually quite a crappy heatsink |
| 11:41.40 | teotwaki | You say space, I say the moon. |
| 11:41.43 | teotwaki | It's filled with cheese. |
| 11:41.46 | teotwaki | Awesome heatsink. |
| 11:41.50 | kerio | but then the cheese would melt! |
| 11:42.02 | teotwaki | Duh |
| 11:42.04 | teotwaki | Of course not. |
| 11:42.09 | teotwaki | If cheese melted |
| 11:42.15 | teotwaki | The sun would've taken care of that years ago. |
| 11:42.22 | kerio | right, how stupid of me |
| 11:42.31 | teotwaki | And we'd just have a ball of fondue floating around planet Earth. |
| 11:42.37 | teotwaki | Hence, cheese doesn't melt. |
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| 11:43.27 | kerio | what if we *do* have a ball of fondue |
| 11:43.36 | teotwaki | If we did |
| 11:43.40 | kerio | and the moon landings were staged because you can't walk on fondue |
| 11:43.44 | teotwaki | Then the mirrors on its surface wouldn't reflect properly. |
| 11:44.03 | kerio | you put the mirrors *over* the fondue |
| 11:44.08 | kerio | it helps to glue them in place |
| 11:44.11 | teotwaki | yeah, but it'd drift away |
| 11:44.15 | teotwaki | it's fondue dude |
| 11:44.21 | teotwaki | the mirrors would sink |
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| 11:44.39 | kerio | transparent cheese |
| 11:45.30 | teotwaki | anywayu |
| 11:45.40 | teotwaki | 983 days was nice to see :) |
| 11:45.47 | kerio | "was"? D: |
| 11:45.47 | teotwaki | Probably our record |
| 11:45.48 | kerio | you monster |
| 11:46.01 | teotwaki | <teotwaki> and seeing that |
| 11:46.01 | teotwaki | <teotwaki> the sysop next to me just went "reboot". |
| 11:46.12 | kerio | oh, he actually did it ._. |
| 11:46.24 | teotwaki | we migrated the services from it last night |
| 11:46.45 | teotwaki | so the machine will now be reinstalled/repurposed for backup duty. |
| 11:48.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | you seen iphh.net server moving video? |
| 11:48.12 | kerio | did |
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| 12:51.38 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: link please |
| 12:51.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask kerio, I lost it |
| 12:52.13 | kerio | ask the chanlog |
| 12:52.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | just busy with mashiara, sorry |
| 12:52.44 | kerio | there you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ5MA685ApE |
| 12:53.05 | kerio | teotwaki: haha, i didn't realize it, the server had a 7-years uptime |
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| 13:21.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: :-D good mail |
| 13:22.15 | kerio | pastebin pls |
| 13:22.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: Niels is working on autobuilder to fix it, since err... a week |
| 13:22.34 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, sorry but from my point of view this seems like maemo is turned off |
| 13:23.01 | Pali | maemo developers cannot do anything |
| 13:23.14 | Pali | maemo testers also |
| 13:23.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: we (council, tech staff) are not happy with this either. Just there isn't that much we can (competence, access) or are allowed to (HiFo approval, access) do |
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| 13:24.26 | Pali | I (as cummunity developer) did not received any message |
| 13:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I constantly pushed behind the scenes. A week ago Eero told us that X-Fade is now working on it to fix it |
| 13:25.26 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, at least somebody from board/council/... should write message to maemo developer mailinglist whats happening |
| 13:26.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | to give credit where credit is due, it probably been last week's meeting between Nokia, Nemein and board that finally made things move |
| 13:26.16 | Pali | because silence for community developers means it is going killed |
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| 13:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: please join tonight's maemo council meeting and bring it up |
| 13:27.26 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, time & channel |
| 13:27.51 | kerio | Pali: #maemo-meeting every friday, 18:00 UTC |
| 13:27.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | my plate is more than filled with critical migration management, so maybe one of the other council guys can pick it up and send a mail to ML |
| 13:28.07 | Pali | kerio, ok |
| 13:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | technical sidenote: it seems that root culprit is account/auth management located on garage |
| 13:30.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://roundup.fourecks.de/maemo/issue3 |
| 13:32.05 | M4rtinK | it is really good to know that things are moving in the right direction ! :) |
| 13:32.13 | M4rtinK | thanks to all involved BTW ! :) |
| 13:33.09 | M4rtinK | I'm using a temporary repository in the meantime, but considering that most N900 users probably don't read TMO or are not as advanced as to add a new repository |
| 13:33.28 | M4rtinK | most probably think I didn't update modRana since November :) |
| 13:33.46 | M4rtinK | so I'm relly looking forward to a working autobuilder :) |
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| 13:44.02 | kerio | Pali: is it possible to add "keys" or whatever they're called to a hal device entry? |
| 13:44.44 | Pali | kerio, I'm sure that it is possible to update values (some only as root) |
| 13:44.45 | kerio | better question: is it possible to add keys to a hal device entry dynamically? |
| 13:44.55 | kerio | or do they have to be specified somewhere? |
| 13:45.03 | Pali | so I think it should be possible to add also |
| 13:45.51 | Pali | kerio, call: libhal_device_set_property_string |
| 13:45.59 | Pali | (or libhal_device_set_property_int) |
| 13:46.11 | Pali | or other libhal_device_set_property_* function |
| 13:46.35 | kerio | i was thinking that hald-addon-bme should be the one providing time-to-empty and time-to-empty-if-idle |
| 13:46.46 | kerio | and percentage |
| 13:46.52 | kerio | so the battery applet becomes much, much simpler |
| 13:47.25 | kerio | especially because hald-addon-bme can decide to provide those values straight from bq27k, when appropriate |
| 13:55.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's the way to go |
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| 14:08.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's quite disappointing that HiFo (Robert) _can_ answer mail from Nemein within 2h, while mail from council - however carefully and politely worded and of whatever high urgency and relevance - gets ignored same time |
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| 14:12.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have a *very* hard time trying to apply the good old principle of "never attribute to malice..." here |
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| 14:31.58 | topro | kerio, DocScrutinizer05: n900 timer resolution seems to really be 50ms, verified using gettimeofday. so I assume kernel HZ is 200 |
| 14:32.27 | kerio | daaamn |
| 14:32.31 | kerio | that sucks :s |
| 14:32.49 | topro | but I found another way to get a high res tick. I'm using an audio recording cannel with 4000 hz sampling rate and count samples ;) |
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| 14:34.01 | topro | ^^ but that only works flawlessly as I need the time interval between events (spikes) within the audiostream as well |
| 14:34.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohohoh, better wipe PA out of your picture then. direct alsa card may work, PA most certainly won't |
| 14:34.30 | topro | ? |
| 14:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB that PA offers a fake ALSA card to apps |
| 14:35.36 | kerio | topro: instead of an audio recording, use alsa's snd_timer_read() |
| 14:35.47 | kerio | aiui it should do the same thing for you |
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| 14:36.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but on a *real* alsa device, not on PA's alsa compatibility layer fake |
| 14:36.39 | topro | ah, now I see. thats an interesting option. but as you say it works fine for me just counting samples. cpu load is ~3% |
| 14:37.15 | topro | as my code has to iterate through theses audio samples anyway to detect spikes there is nearly no overhead |
| 14:37.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | but jitter |
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| 14:37.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | if this is a normal audio stream that's managed by PA |
| 14:37.58 | topro | jitter because I get those samples in packets you mean? |
| 14:38.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | it is NOT realtime |
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| 14:38.50 | topro | well actually I don't even know what backend I use, I'm usinf QAudioInput |
| 14:39.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's however exactly the right thing to analyze audio, since you basically got implicit timestamps on each sample, for non-realtime deferred processing |
| 14:39.41 | topro | thats exactly what I am doing, realtime doesn't matter in the sub-second scale |
| 14:39.52 | topro | ^^ |
| 14:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | then your approach is basically the only correct one |
| 14:39.59 | topro | for my current task that is |
| 14:41.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and PA doesn't matter either in this case |
| 14:41.11 | topro | if i would need realtime, snd_timer_read() would be my friend using plain alsa? |
| 14:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:41.36 | topro | could you please explain PA to me? |
| 14:42.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | app -> PA-fake-ALSA -> PA-soundserver -> real (ALSA) hw audiocard |
| 14:42.48 | topro | well actually what does "PA" stand for? |
| 14:42.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | PukeAudio |
| 14:43.04 | topro | ah, sorry |
| 14:43.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | err Polypaudio, nah PulseAudio |
| 14:43.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pa |
| 14:43.24 | infobot | it has been said that pa is PAY ATTENTION!!!!! |
| 14:43.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh |
| 14:43.39 | topro | gg |
| 14:44.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | another poettering abomination |
| 14:44.10 | topro | so there is a real alsa hw on n900 I could use to get timer ticks? |
| 14:44.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, PA sits on top of a real ALSA kernel implementation |
| 14:44.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | the kernel soundcard hw drivers are ALSA |
| 14:45.13 | topro | so what would I have to take care of to get ther right backend? |
| 14:45.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | good question |
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| 14:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess as long as PA is running, access to real ALSA *stack* is hidden from apps. What is available are the alsa soundcard stubs in /dev/sound |
| 14:46.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | though might be locked by PA having them opened |
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| 14:46.56 | SpeedEvil | os this just to get timer? |
| 14:47.03 | SpeedEvil | a timer |
| 14:47.13 | SpeedEvil | or for use with sound |
| 14:47.44 | topro | to get a high res timer |
| 14:47.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno. For high resolution timers there are other better alternatives than soundcard |
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| 14:48.03 | topro | on n900? |
| 14:48.17 | kerio | i thought soundcards were really good at timing |
| 14:48.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could e.g. exploit one of the PWM counters |
| 14:48.58 | SpeedEvil | you don't use them as clocks if you've got clocks |
| 14:49.18 | SpeedEvil | I thought there was a high res timer anyway |
| 14:49.25 | SpeedEvil | is it not eszpe? |
| 14:49.28 | SpeedEvil | exposed |
| 14:49.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | it should also be available, yes. AFAIK |
| 14:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ is another possible approach, depending on what you want to do |
| 14:51.46 | topro | ok, i see there are some possibilities. for the moment I need the time between two spikes in audio stream, so I think I will go with counting samples. If one day I would need another real high-res timer I'll evaluate some of your proposals ;) |
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| 15:50.34 | ShadowJK | topro; i would assume tickless kernel |
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| 15:50.52 | ShadowJK | topro: for timing between two audio spikes, counting samples is ablutely the way to go |
| 15:50.55 | ShadowJK | The only thing you'd maybe want a timer for, is to determine whether actual samplerate is the requested 44100 or 44099 |
| 15:50.58 | ShadowJK | do that over longer period and system timer granularity doesn't matter as much |
| 15:51.54 | topro | ShadowJK: thanks |
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| 16:09.27 | FIQ | <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ is another possible approach, depending on what you want to do |
| 16:09.28 | FIQ | what? |
| 16:09.32 | FIQ | oh wait |
| 16:09.36 | FIQ | it was not pointed to me |
| 16:09.37 | FIQ | nvm |
| 16:10.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | your fault ;-P |
| 16:10.55 | FIQ | meh :P |
| 16:11.10 | FIQ | I've used this nick for way too long to be interested in changing it |
| 16:11.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | np |
| 16:11.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for highlight |
| 16:13.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yay, it's really funny how one can spend the whole day, week by week, with just managing migration issues. I just suggested hidden primary for our DNS issues, let's see if that will fly |
| 16:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein/Eero is not averse and will support us |
| 16:14.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | even donate a location and IP for the NS |
| 16:25.11 | ruskie | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Vivaldi-tablet-in-harmony-with-new-vendor-1804422.html |
| 16:27.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yay, if our migration business continues developing the way it does, I start to wonder if we ever need to do the final big cut |
| 16:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it seems Nokia will insist in that big cut, to get rid of responsibility for maemo.org |
| 16:30.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | topro: may I ask what nifty stuff you're building? |
| 16:31.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | acoustic ping? |
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| 17:22.35 | SpeedEvil | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21468116 boom |
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| 17:23.03 | SpeedEvil | wow (not directly on topic) - meteor |
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| 17:24.34 | SpeedEvil | oooh. altimeter chips in phones could as a distributed network do energy analysis of such blasts |
| 17:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: (meteor) yeah, 28000km distance, allegedly. But when, exactly? |
| 17:25.48 | SpeedEvil | today |
| 17:25.56 | SpeedEvil | 12hish ago |
| 17:26.09 | SpeedEvil | 900 injured |
| 17:26.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh |
| 17:26.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, not the tiny meteorites in .ru |
| 17:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "big" one |
| 17:26.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | tonight |
| 17:27.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | (65m big iirc) |
| 17:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | allegedly passing by in only 28000km distance |
| 17:28.06 | SpeedEvil | not very tiny, probably a few m in diameter |
| 17:28.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | it theoretically might hit satellites |
| 17:29.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or earth if they did an oopsie in their calculations |
| 17:29.11 | SpeedEvil | easy to compute. |
| 17:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but 28000km is *really* tight |
| 17:31.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I honestly can't believe the .ru incident is by pure chance |
| 17:31.14 | SpeedEvil | not as tight as 0 |
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| 17:31.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, you do know when it's supposed to be most close to us, aka "pass by"? |
| 17:33.04 | SpeedEvil | tonight, 8 pm ish for you |
| 17:33.11 | SpeedEvil | binoculars |
| 17:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: *if* they knew it will hit somewhere, but can't exactly calculate *where*, don't you think they'd tell exactly this: it will pass by very close |
| 17:33.22 | SpeedEvil | and good sky needed |
| 17:33.57 | SpeedEvil | I meant zero for the one that hit today |
| 17:34.52 | SpeedEvil | also, it was observed closely yesterday. orbit is very well known |
| 17:35.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | they mustn't tell "it will impact somewhere in $arbitrary-huge-area-with-millions-of-people", since that would for _sure_ cause a high number of fatalities even when the meteor would miss earth |
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| 17:37.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | they won't lie about the timing though, probably |
| 17:37.40 | SpeedEvil | there is no they |
| 17:37.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sure |
| 17:38.02 | SpeedEvil | amateur s also picked it up |
| 17:39.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure they did. But can they do *exact* measurements of orbit parameters and then do the calculations to a precision better than 28000km error? |
| 17:39.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess velocity measurement is a quite demanding process |
| 17:41.19 | SpeedEvil | you measure it against the fixed star background |
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| 17:41.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's tangential velocity relative to us |
| 17:41.58 | SpeedEvil | indeed |
| 17:42.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | axial velocity directly towards us is hard to measure this way |
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| 17:42.39 | SpeedEvil | correlating with older images lets you derive an orbit very closely |
| 17:42.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's basically only radar and size-changes |
| 17:43.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, if complete orbit parameters are known, you can use pure math |
| 17:44.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless those parameters changed by events that happened while the object not been in our vicinity |
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| 17:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | collecting a bit of dark dust so albedo changes is enough to change orbit parameters enough for an error of >28000km, give the speed of earth on its orbit around sun |
| 17:50.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | given* |
| 17:53.11 | SpeedEvil | the radial velocity can be closely estimated in most cases from the tangential velocity evolution and orbital mechanics |
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| 18:01.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: could you pastebin the output of `dpkg --get-selections`? i'm still trying to figure out wtf is wrong with my Conversations, and maybe it's caused by something that i deleted |
| 18:01.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, since now is meeting time |
| 18:01.55 | kerio | but it'll take a second! :( |
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| 19:07.49 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil; someone on radio said the orbital params of the russia meteors don't match the one being tracked |
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| 19:37.51 | Estel_ | I'm absolutely sure, that today's meteor shower is not corellated with any asteroid, but it's omen of DocScrutinizer05 leaving administrator position, fools. |
| 19:38.01 | Estel_ | OTOH, quick question |
| 19:38.46 | Estel_ | what si the most lightweight solution to manipulate content from live webpage on n900 itself, aka equivalent of firefox'ish "live http headers"? |
| 19:39.06 | Estel_ | reason is trivial - me wanna to grab some swf file from some site that obscure it |
| 19:39.27 | Estel_ | could use desktop for that, but I'm pretty sure N900 should be able to :) |
| 19:41.20 | Estel_ | and, question 2 - what is, actually, the most lightweight from available solutions, to create a http sever on N900 - for localhost use only, in fact to "cheat" swf files, that have hardcoded requiments to run from certain domain |
| 19:41.33 | Estel_ | (so i "create" that domain and run it from localhost |
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| 19:44.37 | kerio | Estel_: i'd say busybox-power's httpd :) |
| 19:44.54 | kerio | i'm not sure of how lightweight it is, though, compared to lighttpd or nginx |
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| 20:19.59 | eccerr0r | i've used busybox httpd on a 256MB x86 (266 MHz Geode GX1)... seems to work ok, doesn't overwhelm the system. it works with cgis too... but unsure of security :o no ssi though... |
| 20:21.20 | eccerr0r | the n900 is faster than the gx1 at least... |
| 20:21.20 | *** join/#maemo thomasvs (~thomasvs@betsy.apestaart.org) |
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| 20:22.42 | kerio | eccerr0r: it would be strictly local-only, if i understood Estel_ correctly |
| 20:22.53 | kerio | also, afaik busybox httpd is used by dd-wrt |
| 20:24.04 | eccerr0r | n900=5x geode gx1@266 |
| 20:25.43 | eccerr0r | as long as it's configured correctly... httpd needs to be run as root to bind to port 80, which it will happily do... |
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| 20:41.12 | Estel_ | eccerr0r, kerio, thanks a lot |
| 20:41.24 | Estel_ | lol, never thought about busybox's httpd |
| 20:41.25 | Estel_ | btw |
| 20:41.41 | Estel_ | any ideas about first part of question, i.e. dissecting http headers? |
| 20:42.11 | Estel_ | to get GET calls to actual content that I want download, that is, otherwise, obscured? |
| 20:42.48 | ShadowJK | tcpdump port 80 -s 0 -o outfile |
| 20:42.55 | ShadowJK | open with wireshark |
| 20:43.11 | ShadowJK | forgets if -s 0 is infinite capture length, and if -o is the right option |
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| 20:47.41 | gregoa | Estel_: not sure about your use case, but `python -m SimpleHTTPServer' is a pretty simple httpd |
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| 21:00.03 | kerio | gregoa: blah |
| 21:01.03 | gregoa | kerio: I'd prefer "plackup -MPlack::App::Directory -e'Plack::App::Directory->to_app'" but I don't think libplack-perl is in maemo :) |
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| 21:07.42 | kerio | gregoa: twistd web --path . |
| 21:08.31 | gregoa | kerio: nice, thanks |
| 21:09.00 | kerio | twistd is the multi-purpose Twisted daemonizer/launcher |
| 21:09.41 | *** join/#maemo thomasvs (~thomasvs@betsy.apestaart.org) |
| 21:09.43 | *** join/#maemo thomasvs (~thomasvs@fedora/thomasvs) |
| 21:11.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey guys, you know i usually have "hide join/part/nick", just temporarily enabled it for council meeting. Why nobody of you pinging chanops about annoyance like <-- thomasvs has left this server (Excess Flood). |
| 21:12.11 | kerio | meh |
| 21:13.10 | kerio | /mode +b $a:thomasvs$##fix_your_connection |
| 21:13.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | your wish is my command |
| 21:13.31 | kerio | if we want to get all fancy |
| 21:13.41 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@50.13.187.159) |
| 21:13.46 | kerio | although... |
| 21:13.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that's what you want me to do |
| 21:14.03 | kerio | it seems to have stopped |
| 21:14.25 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you're a good op, your intervention fixed it :3 |
| 21:14.31 | *** join/#maemo dafox (~dafox@ip51cc571d.speed.planet.nl) |
| 21:14.48 | kerio | dammit! |
| 21:14.51 | *** join/#maemo thomasvs (~thomasvs@betsy.apestaart.org) |
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| 21:15.11 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: he doesn't seem to join when already identified |
| 21:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 21:18.14 | kerio | that thomasvs dude |
| 21:18.25 | kerio | he answered three times to a ctcp version |
| 21:18.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I've seen him changing host, yeah |
| 21:18.33 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05, as for myself, I also have join/part hidden :P |
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| 21:23.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, now? |
| 21:23.27 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c155-11.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:24.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: /mode #maemo +b $x:thomasvs*$##fix_your_connection |
| 21:24.23 | kerio | i'm fairly certain of that |
| 21:24.41 | kerio | (redirect to ##fix_your_connection which is /the/ channel for this) |
| 21:26.13 | sixwheeledbeast | I use join/part hiding in pidgin, set to hide if user was idle for >10 min |
| 21:29.28 | *** join/#maemo thomasvs (~thomasvs@betsy.apestaart.org) |
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| 21:32.11 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 21:32.29 | *** mode/#maemo [+b $x thomasvs*$##fix_your_connection] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 21:33.02 | Aoyagi | Thank you |
| 21:33.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | I doubt this been a wellformed ban |
| 21:33.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks kinda strange to me |
| 21:34.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just too lazy to check that weird syntax |
| 21:34.50 | *** join/#maemo waelsy123 (~waelsy123@212.11.203.6) |
| 21:34.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and semantics of x etc |
| 21:36.08 | ShadowJK | freenode extensions |
| 21:36.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard of them but don't know them by heart |
| 21:37.24 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it worked |
| 21:37.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and too lazy to find the right webpage |
| 21:37.36 | kerio | no, wait |
| 21:37.46 | kerio | ...he was already there, lol |
| 21:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ban doesn't kick |
| 21:38.09 | kerio | yeah, i figured |
| 21:38.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but noooow |
| 21:38.52 | kerio | awesome |
| 21:38.59 | kerio | he joined ##fix_your_connection :D |
| 21:39.14 | kerio | but he was already redirected there by another channel, i think |
| 21:41.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, myrtti is chanop there, why does this sound familliar to me? |
| 21:41.12 | kerio | idk, why? |
| 21:41.14 | kerio | also deop |
| 21:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 21:41.33 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 21:42.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | shakes fist against smokedetector, rubs his ears and takes a breath from cig |
| 21:43.41 | kerio | also buy an ecig |
| 21:43.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh have that |
| 21:43.59 | kerio | ...do they trip smoke detectors up? |
| 21:44.04 | kerio | *off |
| 21:44.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure they do, when you use them close to it |
| 21:44.29 | kerio | but it's just vapour! |
| 21:44.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that "smoke" vanishes way faster |
| 21:45.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | so no building up of critical concentrations during council meetings |
| 21:45.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | next time I'll open the window before meeting stats |
| 21:45.28 | kerio | :D |
| 21:45.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | starts |
| 21:45.46 | kerio | why do you have a smoke detector anyway |
| 21:46.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | because I am declared dead by firebrigades, police, and paramedics |
| 21:46.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I survived a fire in my flat |
| 21:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't want to try my luck again |
| 21:47.03 | kerio | damn |
| 21:47.07 | kerio | electric fire? |
| 21:47.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably dirt cheap desk vacuum cleaner |
| 21:47.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | overcharging NiMH |
| 21:47.50 | kerio | hmm... chemical fire then? |
| 21:48.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 21:48.10 | sixwheeledbeast | ionization smoke detectors will trigger on any particles/vapour etc. There the most sensitive type of detector. |
| 21:48.17 | cehteh | outch .. told ya, dont use the 787 cells |
| 21:48.25 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 21:48.29 | kerio | anyway, i don't smoke and i don't clean my room |
| 21:48.33 | kerio | so i hope i'm safe |
| 21:48.35 | cehteh | lol |
| 21:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | the AAA cells got hot, started plastic of vacuum to burn, and that ignited my shelf with books |
| 21:48.54 | kerio | D: |
| 21:48.58 | kerio | which books did you lose? |
| 21:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | all |
| 21:49.05 | cehteh | can you sue the producer for compensation? |
| 21:49.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not |
| 21:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | the true reason wasn't to find anymore in that ashes |
| 21:50.06 | cehteh | buyed some ammo boxes for charging LiPo's |
| 21:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I know what been there that could've started a fire |
| 21:50.29 | kerio | cehteh: isn't that... overdoing it? |
| 21:50.49 | cehteh | kerio: big ones for a hexacopter |
| 21:51.00 | kerio | hm, then maybe it's more justified |
| 21:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, probably the 100 rounds 9mm ammo saved my life, when they went off in the fire and awakened me |
| 21:51.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: this made me realize, i don't know where (and if) the fire extinguisher is |
| 21:51.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *know* where mine is |
| 21:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 21:51.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: can i borrow yours if there's a fire here? |
| 21:52.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | back when I extinguished the fire with water from bathroom |
| 21:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | firebrigades didn't believe me |
| 21:52.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | they all said "hey dude you oughta be dead" |
| 21:52.56 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 21:53.03 | kerio | hehe, how do you answer something like that? |
| 21:53.07 | kerio | "sorry to disappoint" |
| 21:54.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I answered "oh yeah, now I'd appreciate you taking me to hospital, i just noticed my face falling off" |
| 21:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | (before I sent away the paramedics) |
| 21:55.46 | *** join/#maemo zl2tod (~iuhiuh@203-97-171-132.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 21:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | took a while (and a mirror) till I noticed my whole face got burned |
| 21:56.20 | kerio | ugh, how much? |
| 21:56.43 | cehteh | kerio: btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=tatq8KcaGY0 |
| 21:56.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | so much that it took 4 week to heal, with lots of medi from hospital |
| 21:57.04 | kerio | daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang |
| 21:57.37 | kerio | cehteh: also dang |
| 21:59.24 | xes | ...don't ever try the 18650 batteries.. |
| 22:00.04 | cehteh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TLEVo1cEjQ .. crazy americans :P |
| 22:00.27 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 22:00.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | this one guy nuked away half his balcony with an exploding 18650 |
| 22:01.08 | cehteh | well i decided that ammo boxes and charging on the balcony (at least when the weather becomes better) makse some sense |
| 22:01.17 | cehteh | heh |
| 22:01.57 | kerio | in other news, my laptop's battery is 50 cycles away from 2000 |
| 22:02.10 | cehteh | well and this ammo boxes are very tight sealing .. i need to removed the seals or leave it open when charging at least |
| 22:02.36 | *** join/#maemo juozapas (~juozapas@78.63.197.192) |
| 22:02.39 | juozapas | hi |
| 22:03.08 | juozapas | where i can find voice files for omvoice server ? |
| 22:03.15 | jacekowski | i've had a fun with fire extinguisher i had one boxed in my car |
| 22:03.34 | jacekowski | and when it came to using it took me a good while to take it out of the box |
| 22:04.39 | cehteh | huh 18650 are small compared to the cells i have here .. 4S (14.4V) x 5000mAh ... over 500g each |
| 22:05.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: round or square? |
| 22:06.10 | cehteh | square |
| 22:06.17 | cehteh | lipo .. stack of 4 cells |
| 22:06.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually only the cylindrical cels are really nasty grenades |
| 22:06.23 | cehteh | yes |
| 22:06.46 | cehteh | but the flat ones blow and make a lot mess and if it ignites it a big flame |
| 22:06.51 | kerio | Estel_: btw, how are the plans for the n900 with the two 18650s going? |
| 22:06.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | square ones can expand and deform |
| 22:07.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and leak easily when doing so |
| 22:07.27 | cehteh | the round ones are liion in most cases |
| 22:07.33 | cehteh | yes |
| 22:07.38 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but as they expand, they become more cylindrical |
| 22:07.43 | kerio | and then they can explode! |
| 22:07.44 | cehteh | rc batteries are quite raw, no protection and stuff |
| 22:08.07 | kerio | cehteh: why? you'd think that considering the space, you could have protective circuits |
| 22:08.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, still they won't build up pressure like cyl ones |
| 22:08.30 | cehteh | kerio: price, weight, power |
| 22:08.43 | cehteh | you can draw serveral hundreds Amperes from those |
| 22:08.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | rc batteries are built for crazy discharge rates |
| 22:09.12 | kerio | oh, so the circuit would have to be really big |
| 22:09.26 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-88-255.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 22:09.31 | cehteh | in my case i use the low speced ones 25C only ... 5A*25 ... 125A already .. but there are cells with 65C available |
| 22:09.52 | cehteh | and 8000mAh |
| 22:10.34 | cehteh | usually you have a more complex charger and in the RC model you have some monitoring and do rather flat cycling |
| 22:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple answer: you want only one mosfet between cell and motor, not two ore even more |
| 22:11.29 | cehteh | balancing charger .. this batteries have a 2nd connector with each single cell level coming out for monitoring and equalizing the charge levels |
| 22:11.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that mosfet is a monster |
| 22:11.57 | cehteh | usually few of them in parallel |
| 22:12.02 | *** join/#maemo sixwheeledbeast^ (~user@host-92-29-201-179.as13285.net) |
| 22:12.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 22:12.21 | cehteh | havent counted but there are prolly a dozen fets on the speed controlers |
| 22:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice of mosfet that you can parallel them thus simply |
| 22:13.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | the have pretty convenient characteristics for that |
| 22:13.21 | cehteh | http://0x.ca/sim/esc/Mystery_40A/img_4549.jpg |
| 22:13.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 22:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, that's a 3-phase controller |
| 22:15.24 | cehteh | sure, brushless motors, electronically commutated |
| 22:15.36 | *** join/#maemo raandoom (~raandoom@85.192.4.2) |
| 22:16.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | those are cool beasts |
| 22:16.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | go like hell |
| 22:16.23 | cehteh | standard meanwhile |
| 22:16.59 | cehteh | with hackable firmware :) |
| 22:20.33 | kerio | ooh, apparently my laptop uses a bq20z951 |
| 22:20.58 | ShadowJK | I disassembled a dead laptop battery, and it had a bq-something :-) |
| 22:21.01 | kerio | that sounds familiar :D |
| 22:30.28 | eccerr0r | nots sure why my n900 takes so long to charge, can't imagine a dual 18650 2.8AH cell... or two in parallel... |
| 22:32.00 | ShadowJK | 2 hours on fresh battery, 4 hours on worn battery |
| 22:32.23 | ShadowJK | probably 4 hours on fresh single 2.8Ah |
| 22:33.15 | *** join/#maemo loganbr` (~user@wifi-napanet-static-206-81-98-165.napanet.net) |
| 22:33.17 | cehteh | my charging is just way off ... it takes hours over hours on 'almost full' .. and when i disconnect it when fully charged and plug it in few minutes later i'll charge for hours again |
| 22:33.32 | cehteh | just blames nokia and lets it be as it is |
| 22:33.41 | cehteh | battery still works fine |
| 22:34.43 | *** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f71b9ed.pool.mediaWays.net) |
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| 22:42.03 | *** join/#maemo topro_ (~tobi@ip-109-47-246-62.web.vodafone.de) |
| 22:43.30 | topro_ | is there a way to get qtmobility support in qt sdk for target maemo 5 (n900)? |
| 22:44.36 | eccerr0r | so it is true it takes longer to charge an old battery? thought a cc charger would hit finish voltage sooner on a worn cell? |
| 22:45.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: blame your screen on while charging |
| 22:46.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | eccerr0r: we got CCCV charger though |
| 22:46.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | eccerr0r: with a charge-end current threshold of like 100mA or sth |
| 22:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | of which an enabled screen backlight already eats up to 200 |
| 22:47.44 | eccerr0r | yes i've noticed that too, any foreground use slows down charge.... to the extent some computer usb ports won't charge/still discharge when the n900 is being used |
| 22:47.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so... never trips threshold for end-of-charge detection when screen is lit |
| 22:49.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that's because of battery is parallel to system power-in |
| 22:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, this special effect is to limited power via USB, which will get split between system and charging, no matter what circuit config |
| 22:50.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | is *due* to... |
| 22:50.34 | eccerr0r | what I don't get is why I can't seem to get it to draw the full 500mA on microusb |
| 22:51.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | charge-end detection (or the lack of such) however is becuase charger suplies power for battery and system in parallel |
| 22:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, it usually should do that |
| 22:51.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | what makes you think it draws less than 500, and how much less? |
| 22:52.24 | eccerr0r | if I bump the voltage I can get it to draw more current... but a constant voltage smps should decrease current when voltage goes up |
| 22:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 22:53.00 | eccerr0r | i've got it hooked up to a bench psu with voltage/current meters |
| 22:53.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I however wonder how you bump the voltage of a PC USB port |
| 22:53.26 | eccerr0r | behavior is NOT what I expect. .. |
| 22:54.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | the bq24150 is not a virtual ideal component |
| 22:54.18 | eccerr0r | yeah for a pc port it'd be hard but not for a test jig :) |
| 22:54.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | a test jig may fail on USB enum |
| 22:55.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is mandatory to draw more than 100mA from USB without D+- short fastcharger signalling |
| 22:55.23 | eccerr0r | (same jig that I killed the charging circuit on my 5230...) |
| 22:55.41 | eccerr0r | I shorted the d pins together. |
| 22:56.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it should take way more than 500mA |
| 22:56.20 | eccerr0r | it's not... |
| 22:56.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | if CCCV plus system usage allows for that |
| 22:57.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should use bq27200.sh or... |
| 22:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bq27k-detail |
| 22:57.17 | infobot | rumour has it, bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 |
| 22:57.17 | *** join/#maemo amospalla (~amospalla@amospalla.es) |
| 22:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | it gives an idea if cell is still in CC or already in CV segment |
| 22:58.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | by merely looking at current-now and voltage-now |
| 22:58.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | the transit from CC to CV is not ideal though, there's a zone of mixed characteristics where both apply |
| 22:59.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, since bq24150 is a cheap real silicon component, not something ideal virtual |
| 23:00.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just "good enough2 for charging LiIon |
| 23:00.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/2/"/ |
| 23:00.47 | ds3 | DocSCrutinizer05: what do you consider wrong with that chip? |
| 23:01.18 | *** join/#maemo amospalla (~amospalla@amospalla.es) |
| 23:02.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing wrong with it, it's just not something mathematical |
| 23:02.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | but real hardware |
| 23:02.27 | ds3 | mathematical? |
| 23:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ideal |
| 23:03.02 | ds3 | hmmm ok... still not sure in what aspects |
| 23:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | like a diode with 0.0000V Vforward, infinite Vreverse |
| 23:03.16 | ds3 | oh |
| 23:03.21 | ds3 | got a specific example on that chip? |
| 23:03.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | it has no sharp switching from CC to CV, both blend into each other |
| 23:04.03 | ds3 | ah... okay. that i understand |
| 23:04.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | on CV it doesn't have 0 Ohms source impedance |
| 23:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | on CC it has dependencies on cell voltage as well |
| 23:05.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | so neither voltage (in CV) nor current (in CC) are really constant |
| 23:05.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly not in the zone between CC and CV |
| 23:07.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | the watchdog timer specified as 32s might actually be as short as 15s |
| 23:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 23:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's all just good enough to do the job it's built for |
| 23:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that job means "5V USB" |
| 23:08.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | not "3-9V USB" |
| 23:09.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | so no surprise eccerr0r found it drawing more current when he increases Vusb |
| 23:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | chip isn't built to handle that |
| 23:09.56 | eccerr0r | i just wish it could draw the full 500mA @ 5V, maybe it'd do 500mA at 9V |
| 23:10.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | it can draw way more than 500mA at 5V |
| 23:10.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | evidently |
| 23:11.00 | eccerr0r | i've never seen it do so |
| 23:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I did |
| 23:11.51 | eccerr0r | what did you use to measure/what source? |
| 23:12.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple math and bq27200.sh to read out charge current of battery |
| 23:14.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus some knowledge of system power consumption, also derived from previous bq27200.sh runs |
| 23:14.38 | eccerr0r | need orthogonal measurement... I cant trust bq24150. |
| 23:16.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I see battery getting charged at 800mA (3.3V) and I know screen backlight uses e.g. 200mA at 4.1V, then the match is simple to calculate how much the USB is currently delivering minimum (even on a neglected converter efficiency that's not 1 either) |
| 23:18.45 | kerio | has seen 900mA, measured by bq27k |
| 23:18.51 | eccerr0r | also something weird:I don't see a current swing when locking the device... which corresponds to why having the screen on slows charging... |
| 23:18.55 | kerio | fastcharger, battery almost empty |
| 23:18.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | but charging current for battery is limited to 850mA iirc |
| 23:19.31 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: not 1A? |
| 23:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | bme sets it to 850 iirc |
| 23:20.25 | eccerr0r | all of this experimentation is just to build a fast charger... the d+- short wasn't enough |
| 23:20.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, see my last 2 lines |
| 23:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually you can't charge batter with more than 0.7C |
| 23:22.13 | kerio | what does the nokia wallcharger do? constant 5V? |
| 23:22.32 | eccerr0r | I'd be happy to see 850mA |
| 23:22.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's not even taking into account the system power which gets subtracted from that |
| 23:22.49 | eccerr0r | It's nowhere close... |
| 23:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sure |
| 23:23.15 | kerio | the battery charges at around 500 from around the midpoint onwards |
| 23:23.23 | kerio | so deal with it |
| 23:23.41 | kerio | you only get the truly fast charge at the beginning, when it's almost empty |
| 23:23.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will charge with 800 or more only while <3.6V |
| 23:24.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly |
| 23:24.23 | eccerr0r | ok... that may be the fact needed. |
| 23:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no matter what you do, LiIon takes its time to charge to 100% |
| 23:25.10 | eccerr0r | i'll discharge a battery down to 3.4 and see if it behaves different... |
| 23:25.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | the faster (higher current) you charge it initially, the longer it will take for the CV segment |
| 23:25.39 | kerio | also, don't push more than 5V through the usb |
| 23:25.49 | kerio | it's not really meant to do that :s |
| 23:25.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | which largely kills any benefit of "fast charging" |
| 23:29.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | use nokia fastcharger and switch off all powerhogs in system, to get fastest possible 'normal' charging which will need ~3h to from empty to battery almost full. Use ShadowJK's charge21.sh (with edited CC parameter) to charge battery with 1C instead 0.7C, though that's not recommended since it wears out battery quite fast |
| 23:30.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing you could do to USB-charger will change that |
| 23:30.35 | eccerr0r | hmm... honestly you guys are confusing me more, there are definitely some facts that mesh with what I know but others seem to clash... then again I'm coming from a completely-hardware aspect... |
| 23:31.11 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: when idle, no screen on, LED blinking |
| 23:31.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ideal charger delivers constant 5.25V @1.5+A and has D+- short |
| 23:31.17 | eccerr0r | but that is also true, fast charging wears batteries faster. |
| 23:32.43 | eccerr0r | the BL5J is 4.9WH. At 5V1A it should take about 1 hour at constant power to charge, if it were possible. |
| 23:33.42 | kerio | you'd wreck it |
| 23:34.07 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD29326.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:34.30 | eccerr0r | it is technically "possible" of course but that is true, you cant charge the last bit at constant power... |
| 23:36.35 | eccerr0r | I guess I need to see that the thing will eat 800mA while charging a flat battery, if this is true, then this will all make sense. |
| 23:38.41 | eccerr0r | and wonderful, t-mobile disappeared, not getting GSM coverage right now... |
| 23:45.33 | *** join/#maemo Ethernin (~ethernin@c-75-68-248-36.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) |
| 23:53.09 | *** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f71b9ed.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 23:54.55 | MohammadAG | meh, $25 for publishing to Google Play |
| 23:55.12 | merlin1991 | of what? |
| 23:55.32 | MohammadAG | apps :P |
| 23:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
