IRC log for #maemo on 20130206

00:01.37DocScrutinizer05r00t|home: seems they do, that IP kicks in like mad (>20Mb/s) then 10min later it's gone again
00:02.34teotwakiwell, admittedly, that's 1.5GB of data, also :)
00:04.21DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: anyway, seems you could re-enable your mirror sync
00:04.39teotwakiis there a point?
00:04.44teotwakiNobody has been using it of late
00:04.51teotwakiLess than 200 hits over the past week.
00:04.56DocScrutinizer05though not much use in syncing - nuttin changed
00:05.37teotwakiI'll leave it as it is for the time being
00:05.54teotwakionce it gets really out of sync, or you guys are less hammered, I'll turn it back on
00:09.39DocScrutinizer05I'll drop a note when autobuilder got fixed so anything *might* change in extras-devel
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00:14.17M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: really looking forward to that ! :)
00:14.32M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: let me know if you need something tested, etc.
00:15.17DocScrutinizer05sure. thanks!
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08:40.56Macerwell.. finally ordered an e7 heh
08:40.59Macertime to go throwback
08:41.14kerioan e7? :s
08:41.35Maceryah
08:41.45Macerit still has a nokia US warranty
08:42.05Macerwhen i tried to return my n900 after it broke (again) they said it had a eu warranty
08:42.12Macerwtf kind of shit is that? :)
08:42.17Macerwhat if i moved to the US?
08:42.18Macerheh
08:42.40Macerbut i can't deal with these other 3 anymore
08:43.10Macerall i need is an xmpp/gtalk client, ssh, and tethering on my phone
08:43.15Macerbrowser helps i guess too but i'm sure it has all that
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08:43.45Macerplus att considers an e7 a "dumb" phone hhe
08:44.00Macerso hopefully i can lower this retardedly overpriced plan i have
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08:44.36kerioah right, you have those weird thing where they can rip you off based on the model of your phone
08:44.43vi____e7 a dumb phone??
08:44.56keriovi____: it's a frakkin symbian phone
08:45.20vi____why not just get a full retard phone and secretly use a computer fone?
08:45.20Aoyagi_joytopA lot of companies consider anything without Android, iOS or Windows dumb.
08:45.45keriovi____: USofA
08:46.02vi____No fone OS I have seen comes close to the PIM integration of symbian.
08:46.06keriothe place where you pay to receive calls or messages
08:46.12vi____really?
08:46.24vi____Thats...obscene.
08:46.31vi____How can you get away with that?
08:46.35Macerheh
08:46.39keriovi____: USofA
08:46.42Aoyagi_joytopI also hear they don't have any unlimited data plans.
08:46.43kerioland of the free, home of the brave
08:46.52kerioAoyagi_joytop: sadly, that's also true in italy :(
08:47.02Aoyagi_joytop:/
08:47.04vi____What a shite hole.
08:47.08Macersprint advertises unlimited
08:47.12Macerbut i'm sure there are all types of clauses
08:47.17kerioi pay 5€/month for 100mb/day
08:47.18vi____UNLIMITED*
08:47.22kerioit's a prepaid
08:47.23Maceryah
08:47.26vi____*(not unlimited)
08:47.29Aoyagi_joytophah
08:47.30Macerlol
08:47.40Maceri can actually deal with 5GB
08:47.43kerioUNLIMITED*
08:47.45Macerbut the lte plan is retardedly high
08:47.53kerio*in time, because that's what everybody would understand, right?
08:47.57Macerwithout txting (which i think is the biggest racket) my bill is still $100/month
08:48.05vi____HOW MUCH?????
08:48.07Aoyagi_joytopMy traffic is slightly over 5GB a month even on a dumb phone like C2
08:48.13vi____what the christ?
08:48.13keriowell, perhaps he actually uses it
08:48.17Macervi____: my att plan is $100/month
08:48.17vi____100$?
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08:48.20Maceryes
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08:48.22Macerafter taxes etc
08:48.28Macerthe bottom line is $100/month
08:48.32vi____does it come with a monthly solid gold blowjob?
08:48.37Maceri wish
08:48.38kerioMacer: fun fact: **everywhere in the world** the prices are after taxes
08:48.41kerioall the time
08:48.49Macerkerio: lol
08:48.50Macernot here
08:48.53vi____100$
08:48.57Macerthey advertise the before taxes and levies pricing
08:48.57vi____that is insane.
08:49.02Macerthen you get a bill that's like $30 more
08:49.03Aoyagi_joytopWell, you also use imperial measuring units :D
08:49.03Macer:)
08:49.08keriohome of the free, land of the corporations
08:49.10Aoyagi_joytopDifferent date format
08:49.19MacerAoyagi_joytop: american arrogance
08:49.20Macer;)
08:49.27Macerdare to be different!
08:49.28Aoyagi_joytopDollar sign before the number
08:49.35vi____I do not think there is a phone package in the UK for £77.
08:49.35kerioAoyagi_joytop: instead of "imperial" and "different", start using "wrong"
08:49.42Aoyagi_joytophehe
08:49.43keriovi____: not even the really high end ones?
08:49.55Macerkerio: hahaha
08:50.04vi____Absolute highest with free iphone9000 is ~£35 max.
08:50.05Maceryeah.. don't even get me started on "yards" and "gallons"
08:50.21Maceralthough a yard is rather close to a meter i suppose heh
08:50.24vi____Possibly £40.
08:50.31keriomy operator has a plan for 70€ with an iphone 5, 3000 minutes, 600 smses, 20gb
08:50.32vi____But that would get you unlimited everything.
08:50.41Macerkerio: omg i wish
08:50.46Aoyagi_joytopI pay $35 a month and I have unlimited (speed and data) internet and relatively cheap calls/SMS.
08:50.50keriobut the first plan with a "free" iphone 5 is 30€
08:50.52Maceri guess in the US we have to pay for all those people who don't pay their bills heh
08:51.18Maceri actually changed my number because t-mobile said i had 3 months left on my contract so i gave the phone with the number to someone else for the last 3 months
08:51.21Aoyagi_joytopMacer: You should return them to whatever 3rd world country they came from :D
08:51.32Macerand i had bill collectors calling the new number i got from att over and over and over
08:51.39keriovi____: do people actually use plans? here in italy the majority of people use prepaid cards
08:51.48MacerAoyagi_joytop: yeah they don't take too kindly to deporting blacks to africa :-P
08:51.48vi____What, ireland?
08:51.50Macerheh
08:52.07Macerleshaun was getting bill collectors calling him all day
08:52.17Aoyagi_joytopWas more thinking Mexico and Russia....
08:52.22Macerworst one was when i told the person i got the number a few months ago and whoever you are looking for doesn't have it anymore
08:52.23vi____I liked the joke about the native American asking the white guy about his immigration problems.
08:52.26Macer"well.. do you know where he is??"
08:52.28Macerwtf?
08:52.36Maceryeah let me track down leshaun the deadbeat for you
08:52.54Macervi____: hey... i have no pity for native americans
08:53.00vi____o0
08:53.03Macerback then it was killed or be killed
08:53.13vi____o_o
08:53.19Macerinstead the white man duped them all into fighting each other then took their land once they were done
08:53.26vi____Yeah...
08:53.30Macerthat's life.. should have banded together instead of getting took
08:53.33vi____That is totally what happened.
08:53.36keriohm, a crappier but more common italian operator advertises a plan for 60€/month that has unlimited calls and messages, and "internet without limits up to 42mbps (2GB)"
08:53.41Macervi____: in a nutshell
08:53.50Macerpeople act like native american tribes never warred against each other
08:53.58Aoyagi_joytopkerio: Interesting without limits up to. :D
08:54.02vi____What has that to do with anything?
08:54.09keriofun fact: if you actually used 42mbps, you'd run out in 48 seconds
08:54.14Aoyagi_joytophaha
08:54.21Macerbecause if a tribe is willing to conquer another.. then i don't see why they should be surprised they themselves were conquered
08:54.26Aoyagi_joytopWait.
08:54.33Aoyagi_joytopkerio: I think your calculations are wrong.
08:54.38Macerwhite men were just another tribe :)
08:54.41kerioAoyagi_joytop: yeah, forgot an 8
08:54.47Aoyagi_joytopxD
08:54.49kerio381 seconds
08:54.55keriostill
08:55.03Aoyagi_joytopNot pad.jpg
08:55.16keriooh, and you can pay 15€/month more to get access to the full 70mbps and get 1 more GB
08:55.30kerio336 seconds at full speed
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08:55.36Macerbut yeah. i just ordered an e7
08:55.48Macergot a new scanner to while i was at it.. a fujitsu snapscan 1500s
08:55.50kerioi suppose that it's technically unlimited because you don't end up paying more after you run out, you're just throttled down to shit
08:55.50Macersince it works with sane
08:55.57vi____But white man was not just another tribe were they?  They had guns and disease.
08:56.03Aoyagi_joytopkerio: I blame Berlusconi!
08:56.26Macervi____: yeah well... all is fair in love and war
08:56.29kerioAoyagi_joytop: meh, he's actually out of this
08:56.35Macerthey were conquered by the superior force
08:56.36vi____o_0
08:56.38vi____Fair??
08:56.39kerioweirdly enough, he doesn't have a telco
08:56.58vi____war!=genocide.
08:57.03Maceryes... i mean it isn't like it is happening today... back then people were conquered all the time
08:57.20Macerthere was a war at least once a decade
08:57.44Macerif they were good enough they wouldn't have gotten beat by whatever means used
08:57.46keriofondly remembers the time when rome actually owned all of y'all bitches
08:57.53Macerkerio: exactly
08:58.19DocScrutinizer05moo maemonians
08:58.25Macerlook at the UK lol
08:58.29kerioMacer: we tended to integrate the populace, though
08:58.30Aoyagi_joytopremembers the time when a Czech guy owned Rome and all the beyotches
08:58.42keriomel gibson notwithstanding
08:58.47Macerthey conquered and controlled the largest amount of land ever .. and tha twasn't even that long ago :)
08:58.51vi____Rome incorporated the populace into their system.
08:59.01vi____DocScrutinizer05: Morning.
08:59.11Macervi____: and native americans have the ability to do so
08:59.17kerioMacer: actually, my father always rants about how genghis khan's empire was bigger
08:59.18vi____passes DocScrutinizer51 a cup of the black stuff.
08:59.19Macerthey wish to remain unassimilated
08:59.29Macerbut romans did not go in there with candy bars and happy thoughts
08:59.34DocScrutinizer05aaah right, I forgot
08:59.35Macerthey slaughtered millions
08:59.35DocScrutinizer05thanks
08:59.43Aoyagi_joytopMacer: They assimilate tourists with their casions :D
08:59.52MacerAoyagi_joytop: yeah... seems so :)
09:00.07Macerand in their defense.. they also gave us tobacco
09:00.13Macerseems like they got the last laugh
09:00.15kerioMacer: millions? especially in the beginning, there weren't millions of people
09:00.44Macerkerio: you're telling me that rome conquoring the known world didn't yield millions of people?
09:00.50keriosure, eventuall
09:00.51kerioy
09:00.55keriobut millions weren't slaughtered
09:01.10Macerhttp://www.worldhistorysite.com/population.html
09:01.21Maceri'd say there were throughtout the roman empire's history
09:01.36kerioapart for carthago, there weren't a lot of full-on wars
09:01.38keriooften there were a couple of battles and then a request of assimilation that was usually accepted
09:01.49Macerfair enough
09:02.04Macereither way sounds like the same tactics used on native americans
09:02.15Macerso native americans can cry me a river
09:02.24vi____Well, I cannot think of another example of a population that have been shit upon more than the native americans.  I do not think that claiming 'it was a different time' can really justify it.
09:02.42keriooften the joinee wanted to join, being in the roman (republic|empire) was convenient
09:02.42vi____One day.
09:02.54Maceri didn't ssay it is justified.. but human nature dictates that the one with the ability to conquer back then usually would
09:03.02Aoyagi_joytopvi____: Have you heard of WWII?
09:03.06kerio:D
09:03.17Macercase in point: had africa developed guns prior to europe... there would be a lot of white people singing we shall overcome
09:03.29Aoyagi_joytopOr ancient Egypt and how nicely it treated Israelites?
09:03.44vi____Aoyagi_joytop: yes.  please explain how that is in anyway relevant.
09:03.47Maceri mean history has always been brutal
09:03.54Macerso why are native americans any different?
09:04.10kerioMacer: they're not
09:04.17Aoyagi_joytopvi____: "I cannot think of another example of a population that have been shit upon more than the native americans" - relevant to that.
09:04.23Macerpeople act like native tribes were happy go lucky living off the land weaving baskets and harvesting corn
09:04.23kerioit's not an excuse though
09:04.31Macerwhich sure they did
09:04.37Macerbut native americans had wars as well
09:04.59Macerwhat do you think happened to the losers?
09:05.04vi____Yeah but they were purely PvP melee only.
09:05.08keriohehe
09:05.23Macervi____: like i said.. so what.. just because they weren't as developed doesn't make it any different
09:05.39Aoyagi_joytopSo they would die a bit longer and with bigger pains.
09:05.44vi____So you feel nothing?
09:05.58Macerwhy would i feel for people who have been dead for hundreds of years?
09:06.18vi____When you read about the extermination of a culture, be it native americans or some such you do not care?
09:06.36vi____Macer: It is called empathy.
09:06.37Macermy point wasn't about the morality of it.. but just the nature of the times
09:06.51Macerand had the  native americans won?
09:06.58vi____HEY EVERYBODY THE KU KLUX KLAN WAS OK!
09:07.01Macerbanded together and forced the euros out?
09:07.02Macerheh
09:07.09kerioMacer: they couldn't win
09:07.15vi____THE HOLOCAUST WAS ENTIRELY FINE.
09:07.34Macervi____: didn't say it was a good thing.. just saying that the weak are destroyed
09:07.35vi____tSAND HOOK WAS AN ACCEPTABLE ACT.
09:07.39Macerthat is how it has always been and always will
09:07.42Macerbe
09:07.42kerio*sandy
09:07.43vi____IT WAS JUST A SIGN OF THE TIMES.
09:07.50DocScrutinizer05no politics!
09:07.52Macervi____: no. that was just a nut :)
09:08.05kerioMacer: see what your e7 brought to this channel?
09:08.08DocScrutinizer05official OT call
09:08.10Maceri know right
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09:08.19Macerso.. e7 :) as good as n900?
09:08.31Aoyagi_joytopIt's not as open, is it?
09:08.44Macerwas maemo ever truly open? heh
09:08.45vi____meh, I cannot even read the wikipedia article on the holocaust without getting weepy.
09:09.04Macervi____: yeah well... look what happened to the germans
09:09.32kerioi know, poor germans :(
09:09.34Macerthe weaker force lost .. and what happened to germany after that?
09:09.36kerioangela merkel... *shudders*
09:09.45Macertheir country was split until the 1990s
09:09.46DocScrutinizer05official OT call 2
09:10.01kerioDocScrutinizer05: but there's nothing IT to talk about! :(
09:10.02MacerDocScrutinizer05: what is an OT call?
09:10.16DocScrutinizer05you'll notice soon enough
09:10.19kerio:D
09:10.19Aoyagi_joytopYou know
09:10.23DocScrutinizer05Ot = Off topic
09:10.25Aoyagi_joytopThis E7 doesn't sound very bad
09:10.34kerioAoyagi_joytop: freakin angled keyboard
09:10.38MacerAoyagi_joytop: i'm not sure of the build quality
09:10.39keriolike the n950 has
09:10.46Maceri know the n900 was like..... sad
09:10.57Macerwith breaking pins and modems and usb ports :)
09:11.00Aoyagi_joytopkerio: That's freaking goooood of freakin baaaad?
09:11.00M4rtinKthe N900 keyboard is IMO better
09:11.06kerioAoyagi_joytop: bad
09:11.09Aoyagi_joytopOh.
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09:11.20Aoyagi_joytopWell I got used even to the idiotic keyboard N97 has.
09:11.25Macerso far i nhaven't really noticed many people screaming about their usb port falling off heh
09:11.40Maceron an e7 that is
09:11.42kerionot a show breaker by any means, but it's still annoying if you're holding it in a way that lets you see and want to access the keyboard
09:11.50kerioyou have to change the position of your hands
09:11.58Macerkerio: it doesn't flatten out at all?
09:12.09kerioMacer: not according to the photos i've seen
09:12.31Maceri've never used one first hand tbh
09:12.47Macerbut after 2 breaking n900s and these other types of phone OSes.. i think ill go symbian heh
09:12.51kerioalso, we don't actually know how widespread the musb port/modem problems are
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09:13.00keriojust ~usbfix
09:13.01Macerat least my n900 still works with wifi
09:13.04Maceri use it every now and then
09:13.05keriooh
09:13.17Macerkerio: no thanks. tried it once on the first one.. second one had that awkward modem break
09:13.19keriojust... huh... put springs on top of the modem? i heard it was a thing
09:13.26Macerand it wasn't the pins
09:14.15Macerkerio: i had a G1 for like 3 years without the modem dying or the usb port falling off.. that was probably the only htc phone i had that didn't suck
09:14.21Macerbut android sucks
09:14.29Macerios sucks and wp sucks heh
09:14.37Macermaemo was so awesome but no more devices for it :(
09:14.39Aoyagi_joytopSo E7 is a bit "downgraded" N8 with a keyboard?
09:14.51Maceryeah pretty much
09:14.53DocScrutinizer05~xyawn
09:14.54infobotsomebody said xyawn was nap
09:14.58Macerbut the keyboard makes it special :)
09:15.00DocScrutinizer05hah
09:15.17Macerhard to find a good device with a qwerty nowadays
09:15.30Aoyagi_joytopOr good device with any keyboard to begin with.
09:15.34Macerguess it costs $0.03 less heh
09:15.48Macereasier to bypass the engineering for a qwerty in favor of a vkb
09:16.03Macerthat eats up half the screen
09:16.03Aoyagi_joytopI saw this awesome phone... it had both QWERTY and numeric keyboards.
09:16.27Maceri was using an ssh client on my n900
09:16.33Macerer... lumia 900 heh
09:16.43Macerit was torture because of the vkb
09:16.58Maceri mean i guess it's great if you can deal with having 3 lines to work with
09:17.06Maceror constantly closing the vkb
09:17.13Aoyagi_joytop:/
09:18.21Macerah well... can't wait to get the scanner too so i can completely ditch having any windows machine
09:22.01Aoyagi_joytopCome to think of it, a friend of mine has E90 :D
09:22.23Aoyagi_joytopLovely thing.
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09:27.24kerioDocScrutinizer05: and nobody is talking anymore :(
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09:35.26DocScrutinizer51kerio: 250 lurkers prefer that to the alternative of having to cut thru hundreds of pages of noise they didn't come here for
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10:10.02Macerwow.. an e90
10:10.16Maceri was very close to getting one when they came out but didn't.. was too expensive for what it was/did
10:10.56Macertoo bad the e7 doesn't have an sd slot
10:11.06Macerit was during the nokia "we want to be like apple too" stage
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10:26.22jogae90 is pretty bulky
10:27.05Aoyagi_joytopO ye.
10:27.08thedead1440Macer: actually I read it somewhere it was due to the silos in Nokia at that time so the N8 got expandable memory while the E7 was another silo so wasn't permitted to use expandable memory; fm transmitter was also omitted for the same reason
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10:50.41ShadowJKThere were a couple of "paired" models, like E* N* pairs. The E variants had aluminium/stainless steel bodies. The N variant was all plastic. E had VoIP, Office Suites, VPN support, etc.. The N variant had mp3 player, media control buttons.
10:51.03ShadowJKExact same hw insides, exact same circuit board. Just the body and software differed
10:51.07ShadowJKand price, of course
10:51.52ShadowJKNo "Ultimate" model with both Productivity and Entertainment sw, metal body and buttons... you had to choose either or, or buy another brand ;)
10:52.12jonwilYou are talking about Symbian phones, correct?
10:52.19ShadowJKyes
10:52.30jonwilok
10:52.35jonwilNot that anyone cares about Symbian anymore :P
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10:53.04ShadowJKAndroid and iOS didn't really exist, so...
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10:55.24jonwiltrue, that was then. But this is now and Symbian is dead.
10:56.03jonwilEven their half-assed "open source" thing didn't actually result in any usable code being released
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11:04.09jonwilUnlike, say, WebOS where good code has been released
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11:21.49ShadowJKWhy would "Now" be relevant for E7 and E90 topic...
11:27.10ShadowJKMacer; I've seen Lumias with detached musb ports :)
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11:29.11ShadowJKMacer; and first version of E90 the keyboard scratched up the screen.. :/
11:31.49ShadowJKIt's funny, by the C6, N900, E75 era Nokia had figured out how to make durable sliders (N810 is a bit flimsy)... I don't think the E7/N950 type ever got perfected
11:32.36ShadowJKtechnologies get bugfree about the time it gets abandoned, it seems
11:33.18ShadowJKjust when they figured out how to avoid getting dust and scratched UNDER the screen, touchscreens came and people started poking and scratching up the frontside instead
11:34.07ShadowJKI suspect once they get the surface material to not scratch or collect smudges, ts will be osoleted by something else
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11:34.14keriothe n900's slider is good, right?
11:34.56Aoyagi_joytopThe one model I had in hand was a bit wobbly.
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11:39.27jogathe units I've touched have been ever so slightly different in their feel
11:41.12keriomine doesn't rattle or wob
11:41.22keriowhen it's locked in one of the two positions
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11:59.17pavelmHello everyone...
11:59.39pavelmI'm trying to install syncevolution on n900... but it seems like repositories still have problems...?
11:59.47pavelmFailed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/s/syncevolution/syncevolution_1.3-1_armel.deb  Hash Sum mismatch
12:00.09keriopavelm: some repositories on rmo are in an inconsistent state
12:00.27pavelmkerio: So... nothing I could fix and just wait?
12:00.43kerionothing you could fix, unless you've got write access to the repos :)
12:00.54keriothe bad thing is, this problem started happening a bit before the migration
12:01.00pavelmkerio: Ok, thanks :-). I'll try again tummorow.
12:01.01kerioso mirrors might be in an inconsistent state too
12:01.05pavelm:-(.
12:01.11kerioexcept extras-devel-light :)
12:01.11pavelmFun.
12:01.24keriopavelm: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/
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12:11.39pavelmkerio: distribution: fremantle components: free ?
12:11.53keriopavelm: components "free non-free"
12:12.05keriopavelm: there's also a .install file ready to use, though
12:12.12pavelmWon't use non-free stuff for now. Thanks a lot!
12:14.03pavelmOk... but syncevolution depends on libpcre3 and that is not installable. Too bad.
12:14.12pavelmWill add non-free, but somehow I doubt it.
12:14.34kerioit's non-free as in america, not non-free as in american politicians
12:16.10kerioanyway, libpcre3 is in the nokia repos
12:16.34kerioperhaps the key issue is affecting you, install libpcre3 with apt-get
12:17.12pavelmI'll re-enable the nokia repos. I was not sure which are incosistent so I kept just the extras-devel-light
12:17.26kerioit's recommended to never disable the nokia repos
12:17.39kerio(apart for ovi - do whatever you want with that)
12:17.44pavelmOk :-). This packaging is still black magic to me :-9
12:18.53pavelmWow. Thanks a lot, it is installing now,
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12:27.26ccxCZhow do I view syslog? is there a syslog daemon running by default?
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12:28.53keriothere's no syslog running by default
12:29.03kerioinstall sysklogd and klogd
12:29.08keriobut beware of the rootfs usage
12:31.28ccxCZis there some log rotation mechanism for it?
12:31.33kerioonly when it starts
12:31.44kerio(so either manually, or when booting)
12:32.12kerioif you want it running manually, edit /etc/event.d/sysklogd and /etc/event.d/klogd and comment with a "#" the lines that begin with "start on"
12:33.14ccxCZhmm, might be better off running metalog/syslog-ng in the chroot on the mmc
12:33.43ccxCZbut I need to debug ssh connections first, so here comes sysklogd
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12:38.26warfareccxCZ: you can also start /usr/sbin/sshd -dddd -p1234 (full debug output on port 1234)
12:38.54DocScrutinizer05hi warfare
12:41.42DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: in RL there's no problem with logrotate only done during boot. I only run into problems for this with my development T900 which had uptimes >180days sometimes. A really *used* phone is seeing boots frequently enough for "logrotate"
12:41.59warfarehi DocScrutinizer05 :)
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12:43.13ccxCZwell, I'd like to keep high uptime too, but placing the logs on mmc seems sensible in general
12:43.25DocScrutinizer05works too
12:43.58DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil doing that iirc, but it has a downside of logs during early boot missing
12:44.52SpeedEvilI don't recall doing more than apt-get syslogd
12:45.03SpeedEviland yes, early boot is missing
12:46.58DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: http://privatepaste.com/1b58ba6011
12:47.22DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: you forgot you moved the syslog to mmc ;-)
12:47.37kerioDocScrutinizer05: why do you get localized uptime and i don't? :(
12:47.53ccxCZLC_TIME
12:47.54SpeedEvilyes, don't have it setup on my current device
12:47.55DocScrutinizer05you admitted you might have forgotten last time we talked about it
12:48.41ccxCZstill no logs from ssh in syslog :/
12:49.00DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# which uptime
12:49.02DocScrutinizer05/usr/bin/gnu/uptime
12:49.35DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: logging ssh is a bitch
12:50.26ccxCZFailed password for invalid user ccx from 192.168.20.14 port 58891 ssh2
12:50.43ccxCZthough it's in passwd and su works
12:51.21DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# echo $LC_TIME
12:51.23DocScrutinizer05de_DE
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12:52.25kerioDocScrutinizer05: i've got LC_TIME too
12:52.31keriowhat's your "uptime" binary?
12:53.16DocScrutinizer05^^^
12:54.22DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# uptime --version
12:54.23DocScrutinizer05uptime (GNU coreutils) 8.4
12:54.25DocScrutinizer05Copyright © 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
12:54.52kerio._. no italian in the translations
12:54.59DocScrutinizer05lol
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12:55.36DocScrutinizer05not like I'd be happy with de_DE locale
12:55.44DocScrutinizer05esp for root
12:56.08DocScrutinizer05but then, I don't care enough to fix it
12:57.06ccxCZI find anything but en_US.UTF-8 inconvenient, maybe en_GB could be okay too. And no, english is not my native language :]
12:57.27DocScrutinizer05same here
12:58.19DocScrutinizer05I prefer poor english any time over poor german translations of poor english
12:59.40DocScrutinizer05my /query to users id english often even when I know they are German too
12:59.53DocScrutinizer05s/id is/.
13:00.43DocScrutinizer05IRC and job made me use English way more than German
13:02.11Lava_Croftenglish is the langue of computing
13:02.18Lava_Croftplain and simple
13:02.32DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: when above logline is from your N900, you got a PEBKAC. Only users on N900 are "user" and "root"
13:03.13Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer05: happen to have played games using the nick DasIro?
13:03.22DocScrutinizer05no
13:03.36Lava_CroftDifferent Iro german then :)
13:06.28ccxCZDocScrutinizer05: I added it manually, su to the user does work ok
13:06.35keriocheck sshd_config
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13:10.24ccxCZI don't see anything limiting the user set
13:11.29keriodoes the home directory exist?
13:11.58kerioopensshd will reject the login, otherwise
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13:12.18ccxCZwhoa, I'm in
13:12.26ccxCZdunno what happened
13:12.32keriosshd being sshd probably
13:13.06ccxCZwell I know what happened, did restart instead of reload, but I don't recall changing anything since last time
13:13.40ccxCZah darn, I think I know, invalid shell since it only exists in chroot
13:13.51kerioheheh, that too
13:13.58ccxCZ(using sshd's ChrootDirectory for that user)
13:14.06kerioi had to figure out many, many things, when i added ssh support to my dgamelaunch server
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13:14.17kerio(and yes, i was using ChrootDirectory too :) )
13:15.23ccxCZwas easier on G1/shr since I could just install zsh there
13:16.05ccxCZln -s /bin/sh /bin/zsh  # here you go
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13:16.24DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: su doesn't work generally, on maemo
13:16.38DocScrutinizer05well, it does. From root
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13:17.35ccxCZI see that there's no pam there
13:18.08ccxCZand su being non-suid because of busybox
13:18.09DocScrutinizer05there is no real su in default maemo
13:18.14DocScrutinizer05yes
13:18.17DocScrutinizer05exactly
13:18.25ccxCZI don't care, I have my chroot now :-)
13:18.31keriomeh, i'm not entirely sure that anything bad would really happen if you had a suid busybox
13:18.51DocScrutinizer05shoots kerio down
13:18.53ccxCZwell, easy privilege escalation
13:19.04ccxCZ/bin/sh -> always root shell
13:19.11kerionope, busybox handles that
13:19.33DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't bet anything on that
13:19.47kerioDocScrutinizer05: we've got almost-cleartext passwords, if an attacker can run a binary, he's already won
13:19.51kerioalso, try it :)
13:20.06kerioset it suid root and then run sh
13:20.07kerioyou'll be user
13:20.29DocScrutinizer05try what? MESSYBOX? Am i one of the three stooges??
13:20.37keriojust temporarily :s
13:20.51kerioand busybox isn't badly-programmed
13:22.21RaimuI've never watched the Three Stooges.
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13:23.05DocScrutinizer05oh yeah, I bet it isn't badly programmed. Maybe only 5 or 10 loopholes left over, like invoking >>busybox -c exec busybox su -<< in an early startup script that gets run before privileges get dropped
13:24.21DocScrutinizer05and don't get me started about bb-p
13:24.26ccxCZsince fstab is a lie, how do I automount stuff?
13:25.00DocScrutinizer05ke-recv doing that for you
13:25.09DocScrutinizer05iirc
13:25.24DocScrutinizer05get CSSU ke-recv
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13:25.40DocScrutinizer05for other stuff, use udev rules
13:25.48ccxCZany docs on ke-recv?
13:26.36ccxCZke-recv is only the internal nand?
13:27.20DocScrutinizer05ke-recv-test
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13:27.35DocScrutinizer05NAND, uSD, swap
13:27.43DocScrutinizer05iirc
13:27.59chem|st[ATTENTION] talk.maemo.org down for maintenance
13:28.21DocScrutinizer05err
13:28.28DocScrutinizer05eMMC, uSD, swap
13:28.32DocScrutinizer05not NAND
13:28.48DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ok
13:28.56DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ETA?
13:29.25ccxCZwell, I'm now formatting my µSD to ext3
13:29.34ccxCZsince I want decent filesystem there
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13:29.59ccxCZand I want it to be accessible inside chroot too
13:30.37ccxCZdoes mount --rbind work on maemo?
13:30.48chem|stETA 10-20minutes
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13:32.22kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah but local privilege escalation on maemo is already possible
13:32.35DocScrutinizer05I know
13:32.43DocScrutinizer05doesn't help messybox
13:32.55DocScrutinizer05~messybox
13:32.55infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
13:33.41kerioi just don't get what you're worried about
13:33.46keriostuff malfunctioning?
13:33.54DocScrutinizer05on what?
13:34.07keriowith a suidroot /bin/busybox
13:34.24DocScrutinizer05on me testing stuff in messybox. YES,  *I* will start to malfunction
13:34.29keriooh, heh
13:35.39DocScrutinizer05get gnu uptime and dummy up!
13:35.51DocScrutinizer05;-P
13:37.32DocScrutinizer05actually once somebody claims "hey, busybox su *works*, you only need to set suid busybox!" all fools rush over it and start using `su` instead `root` in their fekked scripts
13:37.51keriosu without a password?
13:37.57keriohow would that work?
13:38.18DocScrutinizer05I honestly don't give a fart about it
13:38.53ccxCZapparently only vfat gets automounted
13:39.02kerioccxCZ: install some flavour of cssu
13:39.10kerio(possibly testing? i'm not sure if the newer ke-recv is in stable yet)
13:39.12DocScrutinizer05messybox is as toxic as it gets, without somebody trying to "improve" it
13:39.51DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: listen to kerio when you can't listen to me
13:40.08damo22you shouldnt talk about female genitalia like that
13:40.11DocScrutinizer05[2013-02-06 14:25:23] <DocScrutinizer05> get CSSU ke-recv
13:40.27ccxCZI'm fine with mounting manually actually, to the place I want
13:40.58ccxCZwhat will change if I install that?
13:41.29DocScrutinizer05will install multiple partitions and different fs on uSD
13:41.43DocScrutinizer05s/install/mount/
13:42.02DocScrutinizer05will mount non-standard fs on eMMC
13:42.28ccxCZnon-standard == ext3
13:42.56DocScrutinizer05and has a hook to run a script to blacklist particular partitions or volumes from mounting at all
13:43.11ccxCZI think I'd rather do this manually, without a script that automagically unmounts stuff
13:43.26DocScrutinizer05huh?
13:43.27kerioso do it manually
13:43.33DocScrutinizer05who said umount?
13:43.50ccxCZisn't that what happens when I remove back cover?
13:44.08DocScrutinizer05it doesn't umount from blacklist. blacklist is to keep it from mounting stuff
13:44.11keriowhen you remove the backcover the uSD is forcibly detached
13:44.29kerioit's already too late to do anything but hope to cleanup the software side
13:44.42kerio(major mishap in nokia's part)
13:44.47ccxCZ:/
13:44.48DocScrutinizer05no
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13:45.05keriowhat do you mean by "no"?
13:45.09DocScrutinizer05major mishap on kernel driver at best
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13:45.49DocScrutinizer05uSD remove switch is a property of the MMC hw if
13:46.08DocScrutinizer05so a standard feature of all OMAP
13:46.34DocScrutinizer05I guess TI inplemented it
13:46.42DocScrutinizer05not Nokia
13:47.51DocScrutinizer05I'd not even be surprised if the if itself would power down the uSd hard, on that switch
13:48.37DocScrutinizer05maybe configurable by a config bit in MMC If registers
13:49.42DocScrutinizer05(disclaimer: iirc)
13:50.51DocScrutinizer05you might be able to dual-use switch the function of that pin to GPIO, thus overriding the switch
13:52.12DocScrutinizer05you probably could try to patch the MMC kernel driver
13:52.51DocScrutinizer05using info about MMC IF from that 3600pages spruf98d
13:53.36DocScrutinizer05notices he's in an even more grumpy mood today than yesterday
13:54.00DocScrutinizer05cya
13:54.08DocScrutinizer05better for you and me
13:54.26ccxCZlive long and prosper :-)
13:54.47ccxCZthanks for help
13:56.00ccxCZI get quite a lot of DataBufferErr on any heavy USB I/O here :/
13:56.08ccxCZon the PC that is
13:58.11ccxCZhow do I run stuff on boot?
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13:58.29keriodefine boot
13:59.14ccxCZafter the system has completely started would be fine
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13:59.58DocScrutinizer05autostart tag in .desktop
14:00.16DocScrutinizer05beware! restarts process when it quits
14:01.01kerioyou could also write an event file in event.d, and start it on... hm, "start on started hildon-desktop" perhaps
14:01.13ccxCZcouldn't I just shove something in inittab to proper runlevel?
14:01.27keriono runlevels, we're using upstart
14:01.38ccxCZic
14:01.39kerioit's a whole new world of events and not being able to figure out wtf is going on at any given time
14:01.51keriogreat, right
14:02.40ccxCZok, let's say I want to have daemontools running in chroot
14:02.53keriowtf is daemontools?
14:03.47DocScrutinizer05ooh, there's still /etc/init.d - it even kinda still works
14:03.48ccxCZsimple daemon manager, somethin like sysvinit but with more flexible interface
14:04.05DocScrutinizer05you just don't know *when*
14:04.31DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: I smell ~xy
14:04.45DocScrutinizer05~xy
14:04.45infobotsomebody said xy was The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X.
14:05.24ccxCZI want to run daemons inside of my chroot. most likely starting with rsync, more later
14:05.39ccxCZdaemontools and runit are quite convenient way to manage them
14:06.11ccxCZso I don't have to dig around openrc to prevent it trying to boot full system
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14:07.15ccxCZplays around with initclt
14:07.47ccxCZI guess writing event.d file for upstart will be quite straightforward
14:08.23DocScrutinizer05as straightforward as upstart gets
14:08.31kerioyou have to figure out when you want it to start
14:08.52DocScrutinizer05starts to smell a xyz-omega problem
14:09.17kerioyou mean xyzt or xyzwt
14:10.30ccxCZDocScrutinizer05: well yeah. I'm not really interested in maemo, just using it as host system to run my chroot
14:10.31DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: ntpd is a daemon usually run in a chroot
14:11.14keriostarting stuff on MOUNTS_OK seems like a good idea
14:11.28kerioor possibly even starting it on started hildon-desktop
14:11.34DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: you basically can't run a full system in a chroot and hope to control its startup from outside, from the host's init
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14:12.04kerioccxCZ: you basically can't run a full system in a chroot, period
14:12.14DocScrutinizer05easydeb?
14:12.17ccxCZsure, I'm not trying to do that
14:12.24kerioDocScrutinizer05: it doesn't run its own init
14:12.31kerioit doesn't run daemons
14:12.34ccxCZleaving stuff like udev and mounting outside, services inside
14:12.36DocScrutinizer05that's the point
14:12.52DocScrutinizer05check out ntpd
14:13.01keriousually chrooted daemons are ran in a specially-crafted, minimal chroot
14:13.07kerioor they do their own chrooting
14:13.09DocScrutinizer05you're using one chroot per service
14:13.13keriofor that reason
14:14.01DocScrutinizer05for the mechanism *starting* the daemon/service, the chroot is irrelevant
14:14.23ccxCZcompletely different use case though
14:14.56ccxCZyou're talking about security isolation, sure, you want separate chroots for that
14:15.02DocScrutinizer05so A) define what you want to do, so we can determine *when* it needs to get started, then B) take care about chrooting the service's environment
14:15.21kerioccxCZ: i think i got it now
14:15.24ccxCZotoh I'll be living inside my chroot, with shell, accounts and everything
14:15.39ccxCZso I want a way to start/stop stuff in there
14:15.44keriomake an event that runs on MOUNTS_OK, that sets up your chroot
14:16.05keriomake that fire another event when it's done setting up the chroot, and make the daemons you want running start on that event
14:16.10DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: inside such a chroot you have no idea per definition about outside 2runlevels"
14:16.17DocScrutinizer05s/2/"/
14:16.40kerioand of course, you'll have to start them with chroot /path/to/root /usr/sbin/yourdaemond -options
14:16.45n900-dkshouldn't traceroute be in tools repo?
14:17.06n900-dkI'm no able to locate it in HAM.
14:17.15kerion900-dk: it's probably not a user package
14:17.24ccxCZI already have run-executable-in-chroot-with-proper-stuff-mounted script, just wanted to hook it up to init system of the device
14:17.28kerioyep, it's in the "net" section
14:17.50DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# apt-cache search traceroute
14:17.51DocScrutinizer05mtr-tiny - Full screen ncurses traceroute tool
14:17.52DocScrutinizer05libnet0 - libnet0
14:17.54DocScrutinizer05libnet1-dev - development files for libnet
14:17.55DocScrutinizer05libnet1 - library for the construction and handling of network packets
14:17.57DocScrutinizer05gnome-nettool - GNOME Nettool is a network information tool.
14:17.58DocScrutinizer05busybox-power - Tiny utilities for small and embedded systems - enhanced package
14:18.00DocScrutinizer05iputils-tracepath - Tools to trace the network path to a remote host
14:18.01DocScrutinizer05tcptraceroute - traceroute implementation using TCP packets
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14:18.03ccxCZkerio: thanks, I'm digging in the event.d atm
14:18.05keriospaaaaaaaaaaam
14:18.21kerioand you also forgot the last and most important line
14:18.30keriotraceroute - traces the route taken by packets over a TCP/IP network
14:18.31n900-dkDocScrutinizer05: Yeah, I know, but traceroute is missing from your list
14:19.00kerion900-dk: it won't appear in HAM, but it *is* in the fremantle/tools repo
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14:19.15n900-dkhow come it's not in HAM?
14:19.28DocScrutinizer05nothing of tools is in ham
14:19.28keriobecause it's not a user package
14:19.36n900-dkohh, I see - thx
14:20.16DocScrutinizer05basic rule: cmdline tools need to get installed via cmdline tool (apt)
14:20.49n900-dkthat's why I like apt more :)
14:21.53Lava_Croftor use FAPMAN
14:21.56Lava_Croftruns
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14:26.39jadedis logging in on maemo.org broken?
14:27.05keriojaded: only on the main site
14:27.13jadedoh, thanks
14:27.18jadedi was wondering why it didnt work
14:28.26n900-dkoh, installed stuff from extras without hash mismatch error \o/ me like
14:31.52Aoyagi_joytopIt works for me...
14:32.01Aoyagi_joytopI mean... the IRC log :D
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15:12.16chem|stwoody14619: ping
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15:19.13timmywhenever i connect my n900 to the charger or usb it doesn't recharge the battery except sometimes which is randomly. i thought it is a problem which the mini usb connector so i have changed that but it was not,
15:20.02timmyand also i can't reflash it because when i connect the usb, flasher doesn't recognize it
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15:25.11DocScrutinizer05n900-dk: extras *supposed to* be free of hashsum errors
15:25.52DocScrutinizer05I just updated backupmenu from extras-devel without hashsum error or other problems or delays either
15:26.34DocScrutinizer05so it's just *some* packages on extras-devel that suffer from hashsum-flaw, it seems
15:27.35DocScrutinizer05time for some coffee
15:31.46n900-dkDocScrutinizer05: installation of shortcutd had the hashsum errors yesterday
15:32.23DocScrutinizer05oh "fine", thanks. So I have a pkg where to check this issue
15:32.48DocScrutinizer05I gather shortcutd is from extras-devel?
15:33.16n900-dkisn't it from extras?
15:33.28DocScrutinizer05I don't know
15:33.36n900-dkwill doublecheck
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15:33.59DocScrutinizer05particularly I don't know where from you installed it
15:35.55DocScrutinizer05if you had e-devel catalog enabled, odds are the version from there got installed
15:36.40DocScrutinizer05there's hardly anything in extras that has no version of same package in extras-devel as well
15:37.12n900-dkhmm, don't know how to see which repos an installed package came from..
15:37.15kerioDocScrutinizer05: upgrading from extras to extras-devel is prohibited, anyway
15:37.22kerion900-dk: `apt-cache policy packagename`
15:37.22DocScrutinizer05and I don't know if the trustlevels are set up reasonably
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15:37.45keriothe builtin "maemo.org" (extras) repo has trust 200, every repo you add manually has trust 0
15:38.11DocScrutinizer05mhm
15:38.37DocScrutinizer05so this means no extras package ever gets updated to extras-devel version?
15:38.45n900-dkit just shows " http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages"
15:38.54kerion900-dk: what's the installed one?
15:38.58kerioalso, lol
15:39.10n900-dkInstalled: 0.1.4-1
15:39.11kerioyeah, apt-cache kinda sucks
15:39.38DocScrutinizer05friggin apt-cache not showing the most important details on info about a package policy
15:39.46Vrm1I take packages from skeiron.org and jacekowski repository, at least it works :)
15:40.10kerioDocScrutinizer05: subdomains are free, though
15:40.55DocScrutinizer05sips his coffe and wonders if last remark of kerio makes any sense
15:40.59n900-dkhmm, will try to uninstall/reinstall and keep an eye on the repos..
15:42.13n900-dkyawns at HAM..
15:43.13DocScrutinizer05~ham
15:43.13infobotham is, like, Hildon Application Manager.  Hazardous Application Manager. Slow like molasses. anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does
15:43.37kerion900-dk: were there two versions in the output of apt-cache?
15:43.41kerioor, well, multiple versions
15:43.59DocScrutinizer05~literal ham
15:43.59infobot"#maemo ham" is "Hildon Application Manager.  Hazardous Application Manager. Slow like molasses. anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does"
15:44.20n900-dkkerio: Installed: 0.1.4-1 and Candidate: 0.1.4-1
15:44.27kerion900-dk: what about the list below?
15:44.35keriowere there two repo entries for 0.1.4-1?
15:44.38DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, #maemo ham is  Hildon Application Manager.  Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does
15:44.38infobotokay, DocScrutinizer05
15:45.31DocScrutinizer05~ham
15:45.31infobotham is probably Hildon Application Manager.  Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does
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15:46.13n900-dkit is from extras
15:46.15DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
15:46.17DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
15:46.18DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
15:46.21DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
15:46.22DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
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15:47.18DocScrutinizer05could somebody pretty please patch that apt-cache shite?
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15:48.21DocScrutinizer05add an option --Nokia, that outputs full URL, not only base URL
15:48.35kerioheh, why do you think i asked merlin1991 for subdomains for each mirror?
15:48.50DocScrutinizer05nfc
15:48.55keriohttp://maemo.org/packages/view/shortcutd/ 0.1.4-1 is in extras and extras-devel
15:49.05DocScrutinizer05obviously
15:49.23DocScrutinizer05otherwise those 2 identical lines above wouldn't show up
15:50.13DocScrutinizer05for version 1.4
15:50.33n900-dkAs I can see from HAM log, it installed shortcutd from extras
15:50.54DocScrutinizer05so it actually installed it?
15:51.00n900-dkoh yes
15:51.07DocScrutinizer05what's the problem then ;-D
15:51.18n900-dkno problem :)
15:51.26kerio"This bug was fixed in the package apt - 0.7.25.3ubuntu2"
15:51.41n900-dkonly that yesterday it gave hash mismatch
15:51.43kerio* Change the package index Info methods to allow apt-cache policy to be
15:51.43kerio<PROTECTED>
15:52.21DocScrutinizer05n900-dk: I think yesterday it tried to install the extras-devel version
15:52.38n900-dkhmm, you could be right..
15:52.46ccxCZwher does media player search for files?
15:53.27DocScrutinizer05otoh if a .deb is already in local cache, I dunno if it gets downloaded again and thus no hashsum error might show up at all
15:53.54DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: tracker does searchg
15:53.58n900-dknm, I just glad it worked now :)
15:54.30DocScrutinizer05n900-dk: we're trying to investigate a serious major problem
15:55.09DocScrutinizer05WFM doesn't help, but thanks for mentioning your yesterday's problems anyway. Might be a valuable clue
15:55.20n900-dkI know - can I clear the cache or do some extra testing and try installing?
15:55.31ccxCZso where does media tracker search? :]
15:55.51DocScrutinizer05you could uninstall it, disable extras catalog, then re-install
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15:56.14DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: that's mostly defined in trackerd's config
15:56.15n900-dkwill yawn at HAM again ;)
15:56.57DocScrutinizer05you may also clear the cache for that particular .deb, but please ask somebody with more expertise about that detail
15:57.00ccxCZis there a fm I can rt?
15:57.17DocScrutinizer05basically yes
15:57.28DocScrutinizer05~jrtools
15:57.28infobotsomebody said jrtools was http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
15:57.59DocScrutinizer05has some tweaks done to trackerd config, to throttle it a bit. Anyway you find the config file's name there
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15:58.28DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: there's also a tracker-tweaker app
15:58.37DocScrutinizer05forgot the name
15:59.31DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# apt-cache search tracker
15:59.32DocScrutinizer05tracker-doc - Tracker documentation package.
16:00.18ccxCZkhtnx
16:01.00DocScrutinizer05maybe I made up that tracker-config app
16:01.40DocScrutinizer05racker-tweaker app, whatever
16:02.03DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: the file is pretty well commented
16:02.14keriotracker-cfg - A simple graphical interface for manipulating the meta tracker settings + applying same settings.
16:03.01n900-dkDocScrutinizer05: Hash mismatch error shows up, when installing shortcutd from extras-devel
16:03.25DocScrutinizer05ccxCZ: /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg
16:03.51DocScrutinizer05kerio: yup, thanks
16:04.25DocScrutinizer05n900-dk: thought as much. Thanks, buddy!
16:05.06DocScrutinizer05n900-dk: I gather it doesn't install then?
16:05.23n900-dkn900-dk: Yes, it fails and wont install
16:05.30DocScrutinizer05:nod:
16:06.33keriowell, fixing the current situation isn't that difficult, the problem will be figuring out what caused it and preventing it from happening again
16:06.47DocScrutinizer05yep, kinda
16:07.09n900-dkhmm, talking to myself :)  Let me know if I can do anything to contribute
16:07.15DocScrutinizer05merlin1991 is our maintainer for that, having a look into it right now
16:07.39kerioi wonder if older Packages files are backed-up
16:07.57DocScrutinizer05n900-dk: not talking to yourself, I noticed your answer. Thanks!
16:08.21kerioyeah, any help is very much appreciated
16:08.48DocScrutinizer05kerio: older as in... ?
16:09.06kerioas in the previous Packages files
16:09.20kerioso we can go and check them against the .debs
16:09.27kerioto see when the first problem appeared
16:09.38keriothe .debs are all stored, anyway
16:09.42kerioand they shouldn't change
16:09.51kerioso old Packages files will still be valid
16:10.08DocScrutinizer05kerio: not even older pkg versions are kept, the less any backups of a previous buid of same version
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16:10.26kerioare you kidding me? repos on repository.maemo.org keep all the versions
16:10.27keriodon't they?
16:10.39DocScrutinizer05I don't think so
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16:11.10DocScrutinizer05you can see "package version removed" in every package, on packages interface
16:11.15DocScrutinizer05~package
16:11.15infobotfrom memory, package is simply not installable and a bug report against
16:11.25DocScrutinizer05~packages
16:11.38DocScrutinizer05~pkg
16:11.38infobotwell, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/
16:11.43kerioDocScrutinizer05: http://maemo.org/packages/view/openmediaplayer/ haha look at the log
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16:12.10kerioanyway, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/o/openmediaplayer/ has 5 versions
16:12.26DocScrutinizer05WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUU*CK?!!
16:13.04keriooh, and the version that was deleted a billion times is still there
16:13.59Vrm1http://maemo.jacekowski.org/mirror/repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/o/openmediaplayer/
16:17.05DocScrutinizer052012-08-15 15:18     2012-08-16 20:42     2012-08-16 20:45     2012-09-12 17:13     ... 2012-09-16 23:55     2012-12-28 11:10     2012-12-28 11:46  ...  2013-01-14 07:54    2013-01-14 08:32
16:17.09DocScrutinizer05:-o
16:17.15DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: ^^^^
16:17.40n900-dkmd5sum is the same for shortcutd deb files in extras and extra-devels
16:18.05kerion900-dk: it's -devel's Packages file that lists a wrong md5sum
16:18.23DocScrutinizer05pali or kerio are the experts to look into that whole checksum mess
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16:19.03DocScrutinizer05kerio: let me bet *which* checksum it lists ;-)
16:19.09kerioi'm an "expert" in the sense that at some point i gave a quick look to the debian maintainer guide and the repository howto :s
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16:19.40kerioDocScrutinizer05: i'm actually lost, which checksum?
16:19.44kerioempty file?
16:20.06DocScrutinizer05could it be the checksum of a package that's meant to have been reoved?
16:20.17DocScrutinizer05removed*
16:20.37keriooh
16:20.38keriooooooooh
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16:25.21DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/shortcutd/  looks fishy. Why isn't there *any* version on most recent 4 events in log?
16:27.29DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/shortcutd// 404
16:29.09DocScrutinizer05shortcutd  Fremantle Extras-devel free armelPackage importedSystem2011-12-02 14:42
16:29.18DocScrutinizer05which version got imported?
16:31.38DocScrutinizer05shortcutd 0.1.4-1Fremantle Extras-devel free armelPackage importedSystem2010-12-13 18:10 UTC    <-- seems to be the last proper import to extras-devel
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16:32.26DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: please check this ^^^^
16:33.54DocScrutinizer05kerio: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/shortcutd/0.1.4-1/    >>MD5sum:  4ead2d59fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c<<
16:35.09DocScrutinizer05now we could use the names of some other pkgs with hashsum error, to check if they look alike this mess with shortcutd
16:35.32keriohold on, that md5sum is correct
16:35.33kerioisn't it
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16:39.48n900-dkyes it is
16:45.36n900-dkcould it be that the extra-devel repos is still in a update process state?
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16:55.33DocScrutinizer05sure
16:56.32Vrm1Me threw extras-testing error hash, so testing was enough to turn off and turn on devel. And install the application. Devel is incredibly great about 43 436 items with a total size of 45.7 gigabytes :)
16:56.53DocScrutinizer05kerio: so you say the md5sum  4ead2d59fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c  is correct for the package in extras-devel, but the sum in packages.gz (or whatever) is wrong?
16:57.08kerioi suppose so
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16:58.00woody14619I seem to recall X-Fade re-indexing the repos several times over the past few months....
16:58.08DocScrutinizer05kerio: so the hashsum in packages.gz is of that last even that didn't result in any proper package, I guess
16:58.10woody14619This may have been part of the reason for doing so?
16:58.35DocScrutinizer05s/ even / event /
16:58.53DocScrutinizer05woody14619: obviously
16:59.21DocScrutinizer05woody14619: check [2013-02-06 17:25:20] <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/view/shortcutd/  looks fishy. Why isn't there *any* version on most recent 4 events in log?
16:59.37DocScrutinizer05[2013-02-06 17:27:29] <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/shortcutd// 404
16:59.52woody14619le sigh.... :P
17:00.07kerioi can't fucking finish a download from repository.maemo.org
17:00.20keriowarfare: connections are cut for some reason
17:00.27DocScrutinizer05o.O
17:00.29woody14619It's not nice to fuck the Finnish kerio. ;)
17:00.43kerioDocScrutinizer05: one ended at 7.6MB, another at 8.9MB
17:00.45kerioout of 9.2
17:00.57keriosorry, out of 9.9
17:01.01woody14619wget -c is your friend. :)
17:01.21Vrm1:)
17:02.14kerioDocScrutinizer05: yep, Packages reports MD5sum: fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c0577436f for shortcutd 0.1.4-1
17:03.19DocScrutinizer05kerio: uplink 33..56Mb/s, 529 connections
17:03.30DocScrutinizer05nfc why your downloads abort
17:04.26DocScrutinizer05what's the abort reason?
17:04.29n900-dkkerio: How do you see, that packages reports this MD5sum?
17:04.40kerion900-dk: i downloaded Packages, and i read it
17:04.44kerioit's a text file
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17:04.55kerioDocScrutinizer05: "download completed", says firefox
17:04.56DocScrutinizer05.gz, no?
17:05.20keriofine, i downloaded packages.bz2, i unpacked it, and i read it
17:05.20DocScrutinizer05meh, downloads with firefox never really worked
17:06.04DocScrutinizer05I've seen exactly this early termination without any error msg sooooo many times, with FF
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17:07.34woody14619Odd... I use FF all the time and never see this. :P May depend on the version (which changes daily now...)
17:08.08woody14619waits for then to return to version = date... at least then they'll limit to 1 update a day...
17:08.27n900-dkkerio: where to download the packages.bz2?
17:08.28DocScrutinizer05well, admittedly last time I heard of a mass complaint of "file corrupted after download via FF" is a few years into the past
17:09.17DocScrutinizer05but anyway, download by FF sounds fishy to me
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17:10.50DocScrutinizer05actually I guess it's been the reason to publish md5sums for everything and recommend to check your downloaded files. I never heard of similar problems with wget
17:11.37DocScrutinizer05it might abort, but throws proper error msg then
17:13.07kerioConnection closed at byte 9463420. Retrying.
17:13.12keriodamn wget why you so smooth
17:13.24kerioshakes his fist at firefox
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17:13.42DocScrutinizer05woody14619: they more likely will use <year><week><4_digit_release_in_week>
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17:14.37DocScrutinizer05kerio: you're behind a NAT?
17:14.43keriono
17:14.45keriowell
17:14.51keriomy router/access point
17:15.07DocScrutinizer05might kick out your session with timeout
17:15.16keriononsense, it's downloading
17:15.19DocScrutinizer05when download stalls for a while
17:15.19kerioat 316KB/s
17:15.29kerioit wasn't stalling at all, it was going quite fast
17:15.40DocScrutinizer05strange
17:16.03DocScrutinizer05I wonder what signal or event closed the connection then
17:16.49DocScrutinizer05warfare: could we look into that? ^^^^
17:17.16DocScrutinizer05kerio: you might use wireshark to do deeper analysis
17:18.09DocScrutinizer05limit logging to packets that have repo's IP in to or from
17:18.44DocScrutinizer05the last few packets should have an idication why the connection got closed
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17:19.01DocScrutinizer05or at least who closed it
17:20.23n900-dkkerio: Yeah, you are right. Packages for extras-devel report MD5sum fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c0577436f compared to Packages for extras, that report MD5sum 4ead2d59fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c, which is the right one
17:21.28n900-dkguess that is what you already figured out.. - just had to convince myself ;)
17:22.43DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: sorry, I already forgot which been the package where _you_ seen a hashsum error
17:24.59n900-dkguess it was kmplayer, but not sure which version..
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17:25.58M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: cutetube 1.41
17:26.03M4rtinK1.4.1
17:26.13DocScrutinizer05thanks
17:26.27M4rtinKnp :)
17:27.48DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/cutetube/1.4.1/   this one?
17:28.01DocScrutinizer05oops no
17:28.23DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/cutetube/1.4.1/
17:29.00kerioyep, wrong md5sum
17:29.06kerioit's correct in the web interface though
17:29.29DocScrutinizer05cutetube 1.4.1Fremantle Extras-devel free armelPackage importedSystem2012-10-10 13:42 UTC
17:29.39DocScrutinizer05looks all sane
17:30.05n900-dkIt's wrong in the Packages file
17:30.46n900-dkcorrect one: a05b00fb816ac04cfb1d01dbb2da6ece  -  wrong in packages: 816ac04cfb1d01dbb2da6ece44460add
17:31.04warfareDocScrutinizer05: yep.
17:32.05warfareshould be better now.
17:32.22DocScrutinizer05warfare: what's been the problem?
17:32.51warfareI probably set the netfilter timeout too low.
17:32.57DocScrutinizer05aaah
17:33.23kerio>:(
17:33.53DocScrutinizer05so it's actually been a "NAT" that kicked out the connection with timeout, jist not on kerio's side ;-D
17:33.56kerioheh, i was about to blame varnish :)
17:34.07warfarenot a nat ;)
17:34.15warfarethe firewall also uses conntrack.
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17:35.47ccxCZwhat players are out there that can do mp3 offload? fwiu the stoc player is gst based, right?
17:36.27kerio"offload" to the dsp?
17:36.35keriono player that i know of does
17:36.59keriomedia player/openmediaplayer/mafw/gstreamer only uses the dsp for video
17:37.01ccxCZnot even stock one?
17:37.38keriowhich is a shame, although you wouldn't gain much
17:38.09ccxCZbattery life..
17:38.09n900-dkIs it enough just to created new Packages.bz2 to fix hashsum mismatch error?
17:38.24ccxCZdunno really what would the difference would be
17:38.53DocScrutinizer05warfare: (not a NAT) that's why I put it into ticks
17:38.59kerioccxCZ: iirc the last time i asked that question, freemangordon said that it would use about the same energy, and you'd get a bit more latency
17:39.14kerio(he's the 720p dude)
17:39.20kerio(so i assume he knows his shit)
17:39.58ccxCZkthnx, then I'll stop worrying about it
17:40.25DocScrutinizer05there's no difference between ARM CPU or DSP decoding audio
17:40.55kerioDocScrutinizer05: except that the DSP can't be used to render web pages
17:41.20DocScrutinizer05and neither to fry toast
17:41.36Skryuhh, there's even linux distro for that particular dsp so I guess it can be programmed to do that too
17:41.41kerioyeah but it's not unreasonable to want to listen to a song while browsing the web
17:41.45DocScrutinizer05but maybe it can do sexual service to you
17:41.53kerio:O
17:41.55kerioreally?
17:42.05keriogoes to read the datasheet
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17:43.27ccxCZwell, if the dsp does not have it implemented in silicon, there's really no point to offloading there
17:43.32pwnguindoes maemo run on anything newer than the n900?
17:45.29n900-dkkerio: should new packages file be created to fix the issue with extras repo?
17:45.37kerioidk
17:45.40keriopwnguin: nope
17:45.55keriotoo many
17:45.56kerio~closed
17:45.56infobotclosed is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages
17:47.05n900-dkWho can create a new packages list?
17:48.39*** part/#maemo pwnguin (jldugger@osuosl/staff/pwnguin)
17:48.59keriowaaaaait, osuosl staff?
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17:50.34n900-dk~osuosl
17:50.43kerion900-dk: no, not to you
17:51.20kerion900-dk: merlin1991 has the bureaucratic responsibility for it, i'm not sure if he can actually do that at the moment, however
17:51.26n900-dkohh, thought it was short for something creepy
17:51.47n900-dkkerio: ok, we will wait and see
17:52.55DocScrutinizer05kerio: huh?
17:53.03kerioDocScrutinizer05: pwnguin's hostname
17:53.17keriohostmask cloak, or whatever
17:53.28DocScrutinizer05dang, I knew it
17:53.45keriofeels bad :(
17:54.27DocScrutinizer05thanks, that's probably been our hosting at osuosl
17:55.26kerioi'm not sure if he would have preferred a comforting lie
17:56.02DocScrutinizer05that's why I asked our sysops in spe NOT to send a mail asking for hosting, but tather deliver general info to council, so *we* could approach them
17:56.48DocScrutinizer05maemo.org != fremantle_(C)Nokia
17:57.11keriofremantle is usually what people mean by "maemo", though
17:57.28kerioor possibly the old distros, but...
17:57.36DocScrutinizer05I don't give a flying F what people usually mean
17:58.17DocScrutinizer05or rather, I don't since that pwnguin fell for the same missconception
18:00.09DocScrutinizer05I elaborated on that stuff in our sysop channel, since khm sent a mail to them asking if they'd be interested in hosting maemo
18:00.39DocScrutinizer05I been afraid exactly this to happen. I hate it to be right, sometimes
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18:10.04thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: just FYI: http://www.linkedin.com/in/justindugger
18:10.36merlin1991anybody kept a list of the hashsum madness packages?
18:10.59merlin1991hm wait can't do squat, wrong ssh priv key here
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18:19.23n900-dkmerlin1991: eg. shortcutd 0.1.4-1 and cutetube 1.4.1
18:19.37merlin1991n900-dk: cutetube 1.4.1 works fine
18:19.40merlin1991(at least here)
18:19.45merlin1991and I checked the checksum on the repo
18:19.57merlin1991though I suggest running apt-get upgrade once before checking it again
18:20.09merlin1991it seems the server got sane(er) at some point
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18:24.41n900-dkmerlin1991: How come the MD5sum in packages.bz2 for cutetube 1.4.1 isn't the same as for the cutetube_1.4.1_armel.deb file?
18:25.01n900-dkin extras-devel!
18:25.23merlin1991I only checked the plain packages file
18:25.34merlin1991damn need todo the compressed ones too
18:30.02kerio...no you don't? you just need to compress the Packages file
18:30.25keriounless you mean building Release
18:31.16merlin1991kerio: I first need to check if the files on the repo are actually foobar
18:31.30merlin1991then I can go find a way to rebuild them from Packages and sign the result
18:34.00keriomerlin1991: lintian all the .debs?
18:39.14DocScrutinizer05kerio: don't worry about pwnguin, I caught him with a /query and put things straight :-D
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18:39.38kerioDocScrutinizer05: he asked the wrong question, for his purpose
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18:39.48DocScrutinizer05kinda, maybe
18:40.03DocScrutinizer05anyway, no damage done
18:40.46keriohm, and now i kinda miss not being the dude who screwed up the free osuosl hosting :D
18:44.23DocScrutinizer05which would be quite nice if it happens
18:45.28RiDargh stupid battery
18:46.09RiDif this thing shuts off while transferring files i'll get mad
18:49.37n900-dkDoes HAM keep the packages.bz2 in memory, or does it keep a local file copy?
18:49.51kerion900-dk: /var/cache/apt/lists
18:50.56n900-dkdont have this file
18:51.15kerioer, sorry
18:51.18kerio/var/lib/apt/lists
18:57.57n900-dkthese files are downloaded every time HAM updates?
18:59.58kerioif they're changed
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19:00.12keriowe actually don't know if apt-worker would support pdiffs
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19:00.18kerio(incremental downloads)
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19:02.05n900-dkohh, I see. Could just see that list directory disappered, and showed up again, when I updated.
19:02.23n900-dkbut guess the list dir was moved to list.new
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19:39.07fructhello all! please help me run backssh session in background? (on maemo 5)
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20:10.03andre__meh, https://bugs.maemo.org/ says DBD::mysql::db do failed: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction [for Statement "UPDATE logincookies SET lastused = NOW() WHERE cookie = ?"] at Bugzilla/Auth/Login/Cookie.pm line 83
20:10.08andre__HELP!
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20:14.01DocScrutinizer05andre__: !!!! :-)
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20:26.00kerioDocScrutinizer05: hm, hypothetically, if we moved to osuosl, could we avoid the double migration?
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20:28.01DocScrutinizer05that's the plan :-)
20:28.16DocScrutinizer05let's see if it pans out
20:28.19kerioi wonder how they'll react when we tell them about the 12 VMs
20:28.37DocScrutinizer05they already know, that's not scary for them
20:29.10DocScrutinizer05it's actually rather on the lower end of what they're willing to deal with
20:29.34DocScrutinizer05there's a "too small for us" on osuosl
20:29.42kerio:o
20:29.50keriohey, we still have 40k users
20:30.03DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's just ok for them
20:30.06DocScrutinizer05aiui
20:30.11wulfelol
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20:31.01wulfekinda sad when you go in to a deal thinking "yeah were bad ass" and they respond with "oh thats all?"
20:31.52kerioit's even worse when you go in thinking "i hope it's not too much" and you get "nope, too little"
20:32.14wulfestill though were probably the most dedicated linux users that are out there.
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20:35.18keriohahahaha
20:35.19keriofunny
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20:43.40n900-dkWhy is the lastest announcement on maemo.org from 2010??
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20:47.50DocScrutinizer05good question
20:48.17DocScrutinizer05some blamed migration hickups
20:49.42n900-dkthere were newer announcements before migration?
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20:51.23DocScrutinizer05another good question
20:54.53M4rtinKI think there weren't
20:56.08n900-dkguess nothing happend since 2010 then ;)
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22:07.57DocScrutinizer05sounds about right
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22:29.22framework_nulledCan anyone help me with my nokia n900, It just randomly turned off and won't boot up now.
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22:31.52kerioframework_nulled: checked battery?
22:32.00kerioi'm not sure how you'd do that, but...
22:32.14keriowas it full/half-full/half-empty/empty?
22:32.23framework_nulledIt was full
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22:32.43kerioframework_nulled: remove it, wait a bit, put it back, try turning it on again
22:32.47keriono, wait
22:32.51keriowhat do you mean by "won't boot up"?
22:33.02kerioi just assumed that it meant "doesn't give any sign of life"
22:33.02framework_nulledWhen I turn the nokia on it shows me the nokia screen
22:33.05framework_nulledThen switches back off
22:33.08keriohm
22:33.16keriowhat does the indicator led do?
22:33.36framework_nulledflashes an amber colour
22:33.44keriohm
22:34.01kerioand pushing the power button again does...?
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22:34.30framework_nulledNothing, I have to remove the battery for a few minutes, Then when I put it back in the same thing happens again
22:34.44keriohm
22:34.52keriothat's kinda weird
22:35.39kerioit's as if it's stuck in ACT_DEAD mode
22:36.06kerioare you sure that when the amber led flashes, you can't do anything apart for removing the battery to get the n900 to do *something*?
22:36.30framework_nulledyeah, once the phone switches back off it does nothing at all
22:36.36framework_nulledled goes blank
22:36.47framework_nulledno matter how many times i try to power it up again nothing happens
22:36.51keriohm
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22:36.58keriodid the usb port give any problems?
22:37.18framework_nulledusb doesn't pick it up at all
22:37.23keriono, i meant before
22:37.28framework_nulledoh, no
22:37.35kerio~n900-full-reset
22:37.35infobotmethinks n900-full-reset is when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers.
22:38.24keriotry making it boot again, then when it gets in the weird state where it does nothing, hold the power button for 8 seconds and then remove the battery
22:39.10kerioalternatively, try removing the battery for a couple of minutes and put it back again
22:39.34framework_nulledok, i'll try that, thanks for the help
22:40.02ShadowJKdoes 2-second powerbutton push in act_dead mode cause full boot?
22:45.48framework_nullednothing at all now, just a red led light flashing
22:45.59framework_nulledother than that everything seems to be dead
22:46.13kerioyou have to *hold* the powerbutton, as usual
22:47.11framework_nulledi was holding it, still done nothing
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22:47.24RiDwhat does a full reset do
22:48.05kerioideally, clean up some usb weirdness
22:49.00ShadowJKSounds weird that it'd all of the sudden constantly think it has charger connected
22:50.49kerioit could still be a battery problem
22:51.18ShadowJKhm
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22:51.50*** part/#maemo PuppetsMaster (~quassel@94.249.172.70)
22:52.39*** part/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@cl-1547.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net)
22:53.43DocScrutinizer05wait, *red* LED?
22:54.52DocScrutinizer05afaik red flashing LED means battery defect
22:56.49DocScrutinizer05while "ACT_DEAD" on "normal" boot could also mean it's doing a fsck
22:57.35framework_nulledyeah it was flashing red
22:57.41DocScrutinizer05I bashed this bug of missing user feedback during /home fsck several times now
22:57.41framework_nulledflashing amber now
22:59.31DocScrutinizer05flashing amber should only happen with USB attached to something that delivers 5V
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23:00.15DocScrutinizer05is the device attached to PC or charger?
23:00.17framework_nulledI plugged the charger back in and after a few minutes it started flashing amber
23:00.29RiDhow am i supposed to clean n900's filthy screen?
23:00.46kerioframework_nulled: with the n900 still plugged in, try turning it on
23:01.35framework_nulledit went back to flashing red once i tried to turn it on
23:01.45DocScrutinizer05battery defect
23:01.57kerio:(
23:02.10keriooh well, bl-5js are cheap
23:02.26kerioespecially if you buy a (good) chinese battery
23:02.31framework_nulledso just order a new battery?
23:02.31SpeedEvilRiD: replace the screen protector
23:02.36DocScrutinizer05no warranty, but 98% sure
23:03.17RiDSpeedEvil i'm not usign any screen protector
23:03.19RiDusing
23:03.19SpeedEvilRiD: or clean with a little soap, on a moist (not dripping!) cloth
23:03.41RiDi tried with a moist cloth
23:03.46SpeedEvilRiD: then put on a screen protector, which will hide scratches
23:03.47kerioDocScrutinizer05: how's the battery fault diagnosed?
23:03.59keriovoltage?
23:04.05SpeedEvilkerio: high ESR, I think
23:04.05RiDbut i can feel the different layers of dirt
23:04.13DocScrutinizer05kerio: no idea
23:04.26SpeedEvilor no contact on pin 2
23:04.50DocScrutinizer05:nod:
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23:06.07DocScrutinizer05RiD: are you sure that's not silicon oil coming out from digitizer on a puncture?
23:06.56RiDo_o
23:07.14RiDi do have a small puncture since phone's 1st week
23:07.28RiDthanks to my brother who was "having fun" with a joystick usb cable
23:07.35RiDthat ended up hitting the n900 as strong as it could
23:07.56RiDbut other than that no, and it's filthier on the left side... anyways, i'll leave that for tomorrow. It's definitely better than what it used to be
23:09.25ShadowJKmicrofibre cloths are awesome
23:10.24DocScrutinizer05indeed, except that black one coming with the N900, which is soaked in wax or silicon oil
23:10.37DocScrutinizer05absolute crap
23:11.03DocScrutinizer05worst cleaning cloth I ever seen
23:11.19RiDNokia pre-crisis saving techniques
23:12.21DocScrutinizer05best one came with a USB HDD :-o
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23:13.17DocScrutinizer05it's just hardly the size of a cigarette package
23:14.08DocScrutinizer05has 2 different textures on the 2 sides. and I use it since 2 years. It's awesome
23:14.24RiD"2 sides". Would it by any chance have 3? :O
23:15.45keriothe main focus being "two different textures"
23:15.45DocScrutinizer05it's been what you call back reference
23:16.12kerioalso, i'd like a mobius strip-shaped cleaning cloth, just to say that i have one
23:16.30DocScrutinizer05one side, awesome
23:16.49DocScrutinizer05a cloth that has only one side
23:17.00SpeedEvilsurely more appropriate would be a Kliening bottle.
23:17.51DocScrutinizer05tries to figure the Kliening bottle, but fails
23:18.33kerioSpeedEvil: too little dimensions
23:18.47kerioyou need four
23:19.32kerioand it wouldn't hold any 4-dimensional cleaning liquid :(
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23:27.50deepykerio: I am disappointed, why didn't you remind me that I forgot to rejoin :(?
23:28.17kerioidk, i thought you got bored
23:28.51kerioso, how's it going?
23:28.52RiDtime to leave the boat
23:28.53deepyI'm amazed how little  faith people have in me
23:29.11deepyI might win another phone haha
23:29.34deepyLG is holding another contest and I'm in first place again
23:36.26framework_nulledphone just booted up, lights went yellow then the screen came back on
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23:57.46DocScrutinizer05amazing
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