| 00:01.39 | anthony1 | hoooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| 00:02.03 | MrPingu | Hi? |
| 00:02.15 | RiD | anthony1 do you know what #maemo is? |
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| 00:07.28 | anthony2 | quien ES MI amigo |
| 00:09.15 | MrPingu | right.... |
| 00:13.14 | jonwil | damn, r.m.o is still running slow :( |
| 00:14.32 | MrPingu | hmmm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360, does not give me any info :( |
| 00:14.33 | povbot | 04Bug 6360: Headset problems |
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| 00:17.13 | MrPingu | guesses he needs to sacrifice his uptime for some music |
| 00:19.15 | anthony2 | q |
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| 00:20.27 | Skry | was that guy.. real? |
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| 00:21.01 | MrPingu | Reboot fixed it. hmpf |
| 00:22.54 | luf | MrPingu: uptime R.I.P. :D |
| 00:23.48 | MrPingu | luf: yeah, but how can that bug be invalid, then... |
| 00:24.37 | MrPingu | Almost got a month, and freemangordon promised me to release a new thumb after I got an uptime of a month :P |
| 00:24.38 | luf | MrPingu: no idea |
| 00:25.07 | MrPingu | Ain't gonna happen with these weird bugs |
| 00:25.11 | luf | MrPingu: so freemangordon can relax. Good news. |
| 00:26.01 | MrPingu | :) |
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| 00:27.36 | MrPingu | Probably kerio won't like this *evil laugh* |
| 00:28.44 | MrPingu | Nah, freemangordon you are not bound to keep your promise ;) |
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| 07:27.48 | Odzk | hello everyone |
| 07:29.16 | Odzk | does anyone know how to set the default zoom of microb? i dont see it on the about:config. |
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| 08:00.37 | kerio | MrPingu: with headset problems i like to restart bluetoothd and pulseaudio |
| 08:00.57 | kerio | oh, the ones with a cable? just pulse, maybe |
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| 09:20.30 | MrPingu | kerio: thanks, yes the wired, I already rebooted but next time i will restart PA (I could have thought of that myself) |
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| 11:02.06 | kerio | hm, rmo doesn't work at all now, does it? |
| 11:02.29 | kerio | oh, it does |
| 11:02.35 | luf | kerio: very very slow (unusable) |
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| 11:03.47 | iluminator105 | openssh in maemo is asking for a password but its not taking the root passwd i set it to |
| 11:04.43 | kerio | are you sure you're logging in as root? |
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| 11:10.23 | iluminator105 | hmm... |
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| 11:12.01 | iluminator105 | go it |
| 11:12.04 | iluminator105 | thanks |
| 11:12.50 | iluminator105 | where is the sources /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 11:13.04 | kerio | i can't parse your question |
| 11:13.09 | kerio | which sources? |
| 11:13.24 | iluminator105 | apt sources for n900 |
| 11:13.37 | kerio | the repositories, then |
| 11:13.47 | iluminator105 | yea |
| 11:13.54 | ShadowJK | /etc/sources.list.d/ |
| 11:13.54 | kerio | HAM puts his repos in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list |
| 11:14.09 | kerio | it will also use every other repo in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* |
| 11:14.19 | Cor-Ai | mmm ham *drowls* |
| 11:14.33 | iluminator105 | ah ha |
| 11:14.43 | iluminator105 | where can i get fapman |
| 11:14.46 | kerio | ~fapman |
| 11:14.46 | infobot | from memory, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever |
| 11:15.05 | iluminator105 | ham is slow |
| 11:15.22 | LauRoman | i never use fapman with unstable repos |
| 11:15.28 | LauRoman | else i hadn't problems |
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| 11:15.35 | ShadowJK | I'd also point out that "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade" can potentially mess up things :) |
| 11:15.36 | kerio | and fapman is all-around awful |
| 11:15.41 | kerio | ShadowJK: MEH |
| 11:16.14 | iluminator105 | i wanted upgrade to 2.32 kernel b/z thats what i used on my desktop |
| 11:16.37 | iluminator105 | use* |
| 11:16.43 | LauRoman | fapman is better if you want to install a large number of apps and don't know the apt for it |
| 11:17.11 | LauRoman | stable apps |
| 11:17.14 | LauRoman | like themes |
| 11:17.16 | kerio | fremantle only supports 2.6.28 anyway |
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| 11:21.24 | iluminator105 | maemo extra repo is very very slow |
| 11:21.46 | kerio | iluminator105: they're working on it |
| 11:22.40 | iluminator105 | is this one the mirror but its not much better either |
| 11:22.44 | iluminator105 | http://maemo.merlin1991.at |
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| 11:34.43 | damo22 | accessing my n900 from ssh is the bomb! |
| 11:34.57 | damo22 | scp |
| 11:35.09 | joga | remote detonation by ssh? |
| 11:35.19 | damo22 | good idea |
| 11:35.24 | damo22 | attach some c4 to the usb port |
| 11:35.31 | damo22 | :P |
| 11:35.48 | joga | better than having a spam sms blow you up too early |
| 11:36.04 | damo22 | sudo c4detonate now |
| 11:36.23 | damo22 | Are you sure? Press Y to continue... |
| 11:37.04 | LauRoman | why? |
| 11:37.36 | damo22 | y |
| 11:38.13 | LauRoman | wasn't c4 used for warming up cans of beans or something in vietnam or korea |
| 11:38.55 | damo22 | i dont suggest attaching C4 to cans of beans, unless you want a big mess |
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| 11:40.13 | joga | LauRoman, yeah I seem to recall it could be used in other ways besides blowing stuff up |
| 11:40.40 | LauRoman | i heard it that somwhere but can't remember where |
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| 11:42.01 | joga | When ignited with a flame rather than detonated with a primary explosive, C4 just burns, so American soldiers during the Vietnam War era would sometimes use small amounts of it as a fuel for heating rations.[citation needed] However, burning C4 produces poisonous fumes and should be avoided.[5] |
| 11:42.06 | joga | (from wikipedia) |
| 11:43.04 | joga | hehe, also: "Michael Herr in Dispatches, his book about the Vietnam War, relates that a soldier would occasionally ingest C4 from a Claymore mine in order to cause temporary illness so that he would be sent on sick leave." |
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| 11:47.50 | damo22 | what is screen res of n900? |
| 11:49.33 | iluminator105 | can you upgrade the memory of n900 to 1gig |
| 11:49.48 | cehteh | no |
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| 11:50.19 | cehteh | well in theory yes .. but i doubt you want some expensive investment in tools for that, and some failed tries |
| 11:52.15 | iluminator105 | how do you stream video from n900 |
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| 11:53.52 | SpeedEvil | iluminator105: I'm not aware of any software to do that simply |
| 11:54.12 | SpeedEvil | I have used mencoder and net cat |
| 11:54.22 | SpeedEvil | if you mean stream the camera |
| 11:54.38 | iluminator105 | hmm.. do you have a write up on it |
| 11:54.58 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 11:54.58 | kerio | eating c4 sounds stupid |
| 11:55.22 | kerio | i doubt you've got enough leeway between sick leave and death |
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| 11:55.38 | LauRoman | theres also a dlna server for maemo |
| 11:57.11 | damo22 | i still dont know how many pixels the n900 is |
| 11:57.29 | damo22 | i want to create a wallpaper for it the optimal size |
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| 11:58.17 | LauRoman | horizontal vertical or different per desktop? |
| 11:58.27 | kerio | 800x480 |
| 11:59.31 | LauRoman | or 3600x480 or 2400x480 or 1600x480 :) |
| 11:59.38 | LauRoman | 3200 |
| 12:01.16 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: I have not found any source for the 1g ram, when I looked |
| 12:01.27 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: or, indeed, the 512 |
| 12:01.58 | cehteh | yes .. i saied expensive tools and "in theory" .. build your own fab :) |
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| 12:09.27 | ShadowJK | Got a spare dozen billion dollars? :) |
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| 12:13.39 | iluminator105 | what the best phone to upgrade from an n900 then |
| 12:14.11 | kerio | another n900, usually |
| 12:14.12 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: it's not _that_ bad |
| 12:14.42 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: you certainly could source the chips. |
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| 12:15.12 | SpeedEvil | just getting them in ones may not be an option |
| 12:15.50 | cehteh | did jolla announced some phones for the european market yet? |
| 12:16.17 | cehteh | hardware wise i'd like my wifes samsung note 2 .. but i cant stand the android |
| 12:16.34 | SpeedEvil | not for any market |
| 12:16.51 | cehteh | maemo, meego or sailfish on that .. i would imagine thats awesome |
| 12:16.56 | SpeedEvil | I wish someone would put up a nice is for the n4 |
| 12:17.40 | iluminator105 | i like nokia 920 but not att |
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| 12:20.26 | jonwil | I wish that someone would make a phone other than a N900 with a physical keyboard that doesn't suck |
| 12:21.51 | wirr | heretic |
| 12:22.24 | SpeedEvil | I have been using my nexus seven w lot. |
| 12:23.05 | SpeedEvil | to the point that that last sentence and this one are tuprd blind. |
| 12:23.45 | ShadowJK | (it's easy to tell when SpeedEvil switched to N7 for irc, from all the weird spelling correction) |
| 12:23.53 | SpeedEvil | though I approach the same speed as on the n900, it is always more stressful, and there is never certainty |
| 12:24.18 | SpeedEvil | with the n900, I could 100% of the time tell I had hit the wrong key |
| 12:24.27 | SpeedEvil | without looking |
| 12:24.44 | ShadowJK | I get tired (like, physically) quickly when typing on transformer osk |
| 12:25.59 | xes | well.. i think the best keyboard was the n810 one's... but the size is bigger |
| 12:27.04 | ShadowJK | I think I like the N900 keyboard better, the key shape and travel are better |
| 12:28.40 | WizardNumberNext | cehteh: OMAP3430 doesn't support 1024MiB RAM. Sorry. It does support 512MiB RAM, but... |
| 12:28.49 | iluminator105 | nokia 920 with meego of course |
| 12:29.58 | WizardNumberNext | cehteh: ...you won't like it, you need to chips stacked on SoC. You create "tower" of SoC, RAM, RAM |
| 12:30.28 | SpeedEvil | WizardNumberNext: there are, or were, four bank chips in the right footprint |
| 12:30.54 | SpeedEvil | for 1924 |
| 12:30.59 | SpeedEvil | 1024 |
| 12:32.21 | WizardNumberNext | cehteh: obviously you need to research subject as memory controllers can use some organizations and cannot use other, so for instance it might support 256Mx8 and 128mx16, but definitely won't support 512Mx4. There is yet another organization, which you have to take in account |
| 12:32.50 | WizardNumberNext | SpeedEvil: from what t I might be wrong |
| 12:33.03 | WizardNumberNext | and it is not about banks, but ranks |
| 12:33.41 | WizardNumberNext | pretty much every RAM chip released after SDR100 spec was released is 4-bank chip |
| 12:33.55 | SpeedEvil | s/bank/die/ |
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| 12:34.10 | WizardNumberNext | SpeedEvil: now you make sense |
| 12:34.13 | WizardNumberNext | ;) |
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| 12:34.46 | WizardNumberNext | but I am not sure, OMAP3430 can do four chips |
| 12:34.50 | WizardNumberNext | for sure two |
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| 12:35.46 | WizardNumberNext | and theorycally should be able to do 4 chips as it have 2 chip select lines |
| 12:36.18 | WizardNumberNext | s/theorycally/theoretically/ |
| 12:37.12 | WizardNumberNext | still doesn't look right |
| 12:38.26 | WizardNumberNext | SpeedEvil: I would be very much interested in such chip. 1GiB sounds very interesting\ |
| 12:38.41 | WizardNumberNext | and then I would hunt for 3730 |
| 12:39.35 | SpeedEvil | 3730 is order able from digikey IIRC |
| 12:40.24 | WizardNumberNext | actually 4-die RAM chip would increase speed, if OMAP would be interleaving memory throughout dies |
| 12:40.45 | WizardNumberNext | then there would be 16 banks - maximum perfomance possible |
| 12:42.05 | WizardNumberNext | that is reason why I want to modify ACPI tables for my desktop to change voltage and multiplier for CPU in C'n'Q |
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| 12:50.32 | kerio | so... when will i be able to buy a n900 with 512mb of ram? |
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| 12:53.56 | jacekowski | kerio: never |
| 12:54.05 | kerio | ;_; |
| 12:54.19 | cehteh | dont say never .. |
| 12:54.19 | kerio | feels bad man |
| 12:54.25 | M4rtinK | kerio: the GTA-04 basically is a N900 with 512 RAM :) |
| 12:54.35 | cehteh | if he gives a lot of money someone will do it |
| 12:54.53 | M4rtinK | but with smaller screen, without keyboard & very expensive :) |
| 12:54.58 | cehteh | here my 10k$ phone :) |
| 12:55.00 | kerio | indeed |
| 12:55.34 | jacekowski | well, N950 |
| 12:55.35 | RST38h | kerio: would you like fries with that? |
| 12:56.31 | *** join/#maemo FReaper (~assassin@203.106.65.1) |
| 12:56.37 | WizardNumberNext | jacekowski: true N950 is very close to N900 hardware-wise, shame it doesn't have keyboard, neither sd-slot |
| 12:57.14 | jacekowski | N950 does have a keyboard |
| 12:57.22 | jacekowski | and microsd slot |
| 12:57.24 | jacekowski | and everything |
| 12:57.40 | WizardNumberNext | sorry - I missed that one - true it does have keyboard |
| 12:58.06 | WizardNumberNext | for some very strange reason I was internally N950 and externally n9 |
| 12:58.39 | WizardNumberNext | jacekowski: only problem is - it cost a lot, if it appears on market |
| 12:59.01 | jacekowski | that's other problem |
| 12:59.07 | jacekowski | we don't care about such small details |
| 12:59.19 | WizardNumberNext | n950 have only 16GiB eMMC? |
| 12:59.30 | jacekowski | no idea |
| 12:59.42 | WizardNumberNext | if notes are tearing your pockets ;) |
| 13:00.26 | WizardNumberNext | getting back on ACPI-C'n'Q problem |
| 13:01.09 | RST38h | 1 |
| 13:01.17 | WizardNumberNext | 2 |
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| 13:28.31 | kerio | Estel_: cfmradio has no icon :( |
| 13:29.39 | kerio | which is weird, because there's a cfmradio.png in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ |
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| 13:33.56 | Estel_ | kerio, because scalable isn't good place to put icon into |
| 13:34.07 | Estel_ | move it to 64x64 or smth like that |
| 13:34.34 | Estel_ | Pali afaik injection drivers doesnt work with ad-hoc mode |
| 13:35.02 | Estel_ | I strongly suggest to not ship it instead of vanilla drivers, if it doesnt have that (or other possible regressions) fixed |
| 13:35.44 | Estel_ | nusse, I never use that funny enabler to install cssu |
| 13:35.59 | Estel_ | you can do it without it, just be sure that they will yell at you ;) |
| 13:36.20 | Estel_ | just keep in mind that you need to ensure yourself, that everything is enabled as it should |
| 13:37.34 | Estel_ | topro, I use fapman (FAM) and I recommend it by heart - this factoid ~fam is quite lame, was written by someone with personal problems about apt |
| 13:37.35 | kerio | without the enabler, autoremove won't work properly |
| 13:37.38 | *** join/#maemo onion (~milang@tori.tal.org) |
| 13:37.47 | Estel_ | fapman is just frontend for fam |
| 13:37.52 | Estel_ | my autoremove works ok :P |
| 13:38.06 | Estel_ | enabler is just funny sript |
| 13:38.09 | kerio | and fapman fails to run certain preinst/postinst scripts |
| 13:38.18 | Estel_ | you can mimic it's doings if want to |
| 13:38.26 | kerio | yes you can |
| 13:38.29 | Estel_ | kerio, as much fails as apt fails to do so |
| 13:38.43 | Estel_ | (=never in practice, outside repeated urban legends) |
| 13:38.58 | Estel_ | fapman = apt-get and apt-cache with some buttons |
| 13:39.08 | kerio | fapman uses its own repo list, its own cache |
| 13:39.16 | Estel_ | yea, that's even better |
| 13:39.24 | kerio | and doesn't give you nearly enough control as you'd get by using apt |
| 13:39.26 | Estel_ | as you can keep separate lists |
| 13:39.35 | Estel_ | of course, not single frontend gives it |
| 13:39.43 | Estel_ | still, it's faster for many things ;) |
| 13:40.09 | Estel_ | if I would use apt for browsing programs in repos by keywords, it would take ages |
| 13:40.37 | Estel_ | btw, I keep sync between apt and fapman repos lists, but there was a time when, for debugging purposes, I kept them separate. very handy |
| 13:41.11 | Estel_ | anyway, topro, using fapman from very beginning of my N900 experience, it never, ever, caused any problem for me |
| 13:41.34 | Estel_ | choice is your, but don't alwayw blindly follow factoids/opinions from irc here, as many times, they're biased as hell |
| 13:41.57 | MrPingu | Maybe you never had issues with autoremove, 9/10 it works |
| 13:42.15 | Estel_ | just few months ago some prominent (now) member of new Maemo administration, tried to convince everyone that kernel-power is evil and should never, ever, be installed by anyone |
| 13:42.23 | MrPingu | Then suddenly, and god knows why autoremove fscks everything |
| 13:42.25 | Estel_ | MrPingu, who forces you to autoremove? |
| 13:42.40 | MrPingu | Estel_: Nobody, just saying |
| 13:42.42 | Estel_ | fam have options to enable it, doesnt force it |
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| 13:42.55 | Estel_ | MrPingu, sure, but it's like apt-get autoremove |
| 13:42.59 | Estel_ | it'*s just a frontend :P |
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| 13:43.05 | Estel_ | saying it's evil in itself is silly |
| 13:43.25 | Estel_ | but that's expected, considering who've written factoid about fapman here :P |
| 13:43.40 | Estel_ | btw autoremove isn't evil too, it just follows dependencies |
| 13:43.59 | Estel_ | if dependencies are fckd, it may fckd things, but dependencies doesnmat get fckd by itself |
| 13:44.26 | Estel_ | it's quite logic, despite what urban myths tend to assume |
| 13:44.29 | kerio | i wrote that factoid |
| 13:44.35 | Estel_ | s/logic/logical/ |
| 13:44.40 | Estel_ | seriously? |
| 13:44.53 | Estel_ | so I was wrong at "considering who have written it" |
| 13:45.00 | kerio | and one of the things that the cssu enabler does is vaguely try to fix the problem with the stock metapackage |
| 13:45.05 | Estel_ | anyway, you were indoctrinated :P |
| 13:45.15 | kerio | marking every one of its dependencies as manually installed |
| 13:45.24 | Estel_ | I know :) |
| 13:45.33 | Estel_ | which may create even more mess in future |
| 13:45.44 | kerio | and, fun fact, i don't have ops here |
| 13:45.47 | Estel_ | but cssu think that it will be eternall, most of the times |
| 13:45.49 | kerio | so i have no obligation to not ignore you |
| 13:46.06 | Estel_ | lol? if you feel offended, then take my deepest excuses |
| 13:46.08 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 13:46.18 | Estel_ | although I don't necessary see point that offended you |
| 13:46.30 | Estel_ | anyway, it's free irc-country, they tend to say |
| 13:46.48 | Estel_ | s/irc-country/irc-node/ |
| 13:46.58 | MrPingu | It's that fapman has autoremove enabled by default... Not to mention I use fapman too, it has a nice gui for apt especially searching is superior in fapman |
| 13:47.15 | Estel_ | MrPingu, exactly same reasons |
| 13:47.28 | Estel_ | ops, missed autoremove by default, I disabled it on first use it seems |
| 13:47.45 | Estel_ | well, sp factoid should state "always disable autoremove" instead "never use it" |
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| 13:48.27 | Estel_ | it's just that kerio spends too much time with DocScrutinizer05 here, and become authoritary biased against certain things, instead of following True Free Way Mantra :P |
| 13:49.36 | damo22 | is it possible to tether over usb? |
| 13:49.39 | damo22 | n900 |
| 13:49.43 | Estel_ | sure |
| 13:49.48 | Estel_ | qtmobilehotspot is the name |
| 13:49.52 | damo22 | ty |
| 13:50.05 | MrPingu | Well, he is free to do so ;) |
| 13:50.15 | kerio | damo22: mobilehotspot can do that, apparently |
| 13:50.21 | kerio | there's no builtin UI to do so |
| 13:50.36 | Estel_ | MrPingu, sure, have you not noticed little pun/irony in my writing about mantra? :P |
| 13:50.46 | kerio | however, you can use the n900 as a modem |
| 13:50.46 | Estel_ | of course there is ui |
| 13:50.55 | Estel_ | qtmobilehotspot have ui |
| 13:51.32 | Estel_ | you can tether N900 connections, be it gprs, wifi (acting like usb wifi card with routing functionality) or whatever |
| 13:51.39 | Estel_ | it's really handy |
| 13:51.53 | damo22 | thats what i need |
| 13:51.59 | MrPingu | You missed the word "builtin" while I missed your pun :P |
| 13:51.59 | damo22 | then i can ditch my iphone |
| 13:52.34 | Estel_ | MrPingu, you're right, I took "builtin" as "builtin mobilehotspot" |
| 13:52.40 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~MetalGear@210.22.154.220) |
| 13:52.49 | Estel_ | which is logic behind his sentence, but probably, not what he meant :P |
| 13:53.07 | Estel_ | damo22, ditch it and buy replacement N900, just in case |
| 13:53.28 | Estel_ | you can tether via wifi, via usb, via ethernet (using correct dongle) |
| 13:53.33 | damo22 | you mean buy 2x n900? |
| 13:53.37 | Estel_ | sure |
| 13:53.45 | damo22 | maybe i will |
| 13:53.48 | Estel_ | I got 8 of them :P |
| 13:54.00 | damo22 | bit overkill |
| 13:54.04 | Estel_ | although 3 are rotary, sold or given to someone and replaced by others |
| 13:54.07 | Estel_ | well |
| 13:54.23 | damo22 | u can give me one |
| 13:54.26 | damo22 | if you like |
| 13:54.28 | damo22 | :P |
| 13:54.33 | Estel_ | if you become my girlfriend, why not |
| 13:54.41 | damo22 | er no |
| 13:54.47 | Estel_ | thought so :) |
| 13:55.01 | MrPingu | I wanna go far, but not that far :P |
| 13:55.06 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 13:55.19 | damo22 | so as a bonus to being your gf she gets a n900? |
| 13:55.39 | Estel_ | <Estel_> Pali afaik injection drivers doesnt work with ad-hoc mode |
| 13:55.57 | Pali | Estel_, why? |
| 13:56.02 | Estel_ | I wouldn't suggest shipping it instead of vanilla driveres without regressions like that fixed |
| 13:56.09 | Estel_ | well, enable injection, and try ad-hoc |
| 13:56.13 | Estel_ | nice lovely reboot |
| 13:56.21 | Estel_ | instant one, IIRC |
| 13:56.49 | damo22 | Estel_: surely you have more likeable qualities than the required offering of a n900 :P |
| 13:56.56 | Pali | Estel_, I'm not going to replace original drivers |
| 13:57.24 | MrPingu | Yes but wasn't that fixed in v0.2? |
| 13:58.08 | damo22 | well my n900 is perfect, except that the repo is slooooow |
| 13:58.15 | damo22 | :( |
| 13:58.33 | MrPingu | Anyway, but I remember reports that ad-hoc makes it crash. Never confirmes as I don't use it |
| 13:58.43 | Estel_ | damo22, N900 is like doctor's who sonic screwdriver |
| 13:58.46 | MrPingu | ~mirrors |
| 13:58.46 | infobot | i heard mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 13:58.57 | Estel_ | very sexy thing |
| 13:59.19 | Estel_ | don't you know who get screws, erm, screwdrivers from him? :P |
| 13:59.42 | Estel_ | Pali, last time I checked, it rebooted on joining ad-hoc |
| 13:59.48 | Estel_ | don't have one handy around now |
| 14:00.08 | Pali | Estel_, now I see, it rebooted my device too |
| 14:00.11 | MrPingu | damo22: I meant this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1314588 |
| 14:00.13 | Estel_ | but better check it before shipping vanilla as default |
| 14:00.16 | Estel_ | Pali, yea |
| 14:00.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | topro: (<Estel_> choice is your, but don't alwayw blindly follow factoids/opinions from irc here, as many times, they're biased as hell) a *very* wise advice, though in a recursive way OP probably hadn't intended to suggest |
| 14:00.20 | Pali | I have oops backtrace in mtd2 |
| 14:00.24 | damo22 | screwing is fun, with a screwdriver of course |
| 14:01.10 | Pali | lxp: ping |
| 14:01.13 | Estel_ | Pali, nice, I would be glad if someone would be able to fix it |
| 14:01.23 | lxp | Pali: pong |
| 14:01.35 | MrPingu | We all would be glad :) |
| 14:01.45 | Estel_ | P_p |
| 14:01.56 | Pali | lxp, your packet injection driver cause kernel panic when trying to connet co adhoc network |
| 14:02.05 | Pali | I have backtrace in mtd2ro |
| 14:02.10 | Pali | can you look at it? |
| 14:02.33 | damo22 | ~hen |
| 14:02.34 | infobot | [hen] hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 |
| 14:03.03 | Pali | lxp, here is log: http://pastebin.com/8WiYUdGd |
| 14:03.25 | lxp | sorry i have no time to look into it right now |
| 14:03.29 | Estel_ | damo22, nowadsays, hen is most useful to debug hard to enumerate devices |
| 14:03.48 | Estel_ | usbmode from pali is more handy as everyday tool to use hostmode |
| 14:03.59 | Estel_ | btw Pali |
| 14:04.09 | Estel_ | increasing sleep from 1 to 3 seconds after enumerate |
| 14:04.16 | Estel_ | in usbmode |
| 14:04.18 | Estel_ | helps a lot |
| 14:04.31 | Estel_ | to get less false speed switched or unable to enumerate |
| 14:05.06 | Pali | here is second part of oops: http://pastebin.com/w7SpSZRS |
| 14:05.26 | Estel_ | also, many times, it doesnmt even *try* highspeed where it should, but it's probably hostmode legacy, hen seems to fail highspeed many times too, for reasons unknown |
| 14:05.31 | Estel_ | other times it just works |
| 14:06.23 | Estel_ | hoever, in case of usbmode, when it works it works, and when not, it straight ahead jumps into testing fullspeed, without even trying high speed |
| 14:06.25 | Estel_ | nfc why |
| 14:08.17 | *** join/#maemo _looping_ (~user@135.126.195.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 14:08.28 | Estel_ | Pali ^ |
| 14:08.43 | lxp | Pali: i put the ad-hoc kernel panics on my todo for wl1251 but i can't tell when i have time to look into it |
| 14:08.53 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 14:08.58 | Pali | lxp, ok |
| 14:09.13 | Pali | lxp, I think that both logs can be usefull for you |
| 14:09.31 | Pali | also I rebased your patches on top of 3.8 kernel |
| 14:09.33 | jonwil | wonders if anyone will ever care about his wl1251-cal replacement work... |
| 14:10.21 | Pali | jonwil, I looked at it yesterday |
| 14:10.27 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-149-172-0-168.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 14:10.28 | lxp | jonwil: you rewrote wl1251-cal or did you replace the entire driver interface with something better? |
| 14:10.30 | _looping_ | hi, is there a way to use youtube on N810? |
| 14:10.31 | Estel_ | jonwil, I care :P |
| 14:10.37 | jonwil | I cloned wl1251-cal |
| 14:10.50 | jonwil | someone else can use it as a base to make the driver interface better |
| 14:10.56 | Pali | lxp, if you have time, can you look at this patch? https://gitorious.org/linux-n900/linux-n900/commit/b44e1f6366c2d8ac45b39baabb5d9a2a5bfb3db1 |
| 14:11.13 | Pali | this only caused problems when I rebased all your patch series |
| 14:11.22 | lxp | jonwil: there is another approach in the upstream driver if i recall correctly it just pulls wl1251-nvs.bin from filesystem |
| 14:11.26 | Pali | and I do not know if I fixed conflicts correctly |
| 14:11.50 | _looping_ | please, is there a way to use youtube on N810? |
| 14:11.51 | jonwil | my thing does it properly including correct-ish region selection |
| 14:11.56 | jonwil | so it uses the correct channels |
| 14:12.27 | Pali | lxp, in upstream wl1271 driver there is firmware code which load nvs data with mac address |
| 14:12.29 | kerio | jonwil: >:c |
| 14:13.00 | kerio | jonwil: use *all* the channels! _ò/ |
| 14:13.04 | Pali | so I think that correct solution is to write similar code and create nvs file which will contains both wl1251-nvs and mac address |
| 14:13.41 | lxp | Pali: do you mean the patch produces conflicts while rebasing or do you mean it doesn't work after you rebased it? |
| 14:14.16 | Pali | lxp, rebasing produced conflicts |
| 14:14.27 | jonwil | I see no reason you couldn't either A.Write kernel level code to read from CAL and then copy what wl1251-cal does into kernel space or B.Write program that gets run once and spits out a disk file matching what would be read from CAL and sent to card which then gets read by the kernel driver on bootup |
| 14:14.37 | Estel_ | jonwil, I second using all channels |
| 14:14.41 | Pali | all was easy to fix (in upstream kernel they renamed files), but only that one was hard |
| 14:14.48 | jonwil | Either way, I have done my part by figuring out what wl1251-cal does :) |
| 14:14.51 | *** part/#maemo _looping_ (~user@135.126.195.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 14:14.53 | Estel_ | jonwil, at least leave easily reachable option to unlock all channels |
| 14:15.02 | jonwil | the rest is up to people who know wl1251 driver more than I do :) |
| 14:15.12 | lxp | jonwil: i think the best option would be to remove the wl1251-cal driver interface but we should keep wl1251-cal programm |
| 14:15.27 | lxp | jonwil: wl1251-cal should be called by the firmware subsystem |
| 14:15.42 | jonwil | well I defer to the experts here :) |
| 14:16.00 | lxp | jonwil: so when wl1251 driver requests the wl1251-nvs.bin firmware it is dynamically created by wl1251-cal |
| 14:16.26 | Pali | jonwil, I think ideal solution would be: create script which read mac address from CAL and nvs file, and generate NVS firmware file (like in wl1271). then add wl1271 NVS parser code to wl1251 driver |
| 14:16.28 | jonwil | you would need to adapt my wl1251-cal clone to make that possible |
| 14:16.52 | lxp | the upstream wl1251 maintainer told me that the driver cal interface is deprecated and will never be accepted in the upstream kernel |
| 14:17.07 | Pali | and region change can be done via CRDA |
| 14:17.15 | jonwil | ok, well do whatever is needed :) |
| 14:17.25 | jonwil | the info required is out there |
| 14:17.47 | Estel_ | Pali, also check cssu channel backscroll |
| 14:18.00 | Estel_ | I reported crash that might be related to either hildon-home or ke-recv |
| 14:18.00 | Pali | Estel_, I know, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1319983&postcount=166 |
| 14:18.06 | Estel_ | if the latter, it apply to you |
| 14:18.13 | Estel_ | checking it, thanks |
| 14:18.26 | kerio | i have what's possibly a dumb question... |
| 14:18.34 | Pali | Estel_, which sleep timeout in usbmode is needed to change? |
| 14:18.36 | Estel_ | ah, isbmode |
| 14:18.39 | Pali | look at TMO |
| 14:18.40 | Estel_ | 3th |
| 14:18.42 | kerio | can't we make it so that it always uses the EU region? |
| 14:18.45 | Estel_ | from 1 to 3 |
| 14:18.51 | Pali | after usb_enum? |
| 14:19.01 | kerio | it's the broadest one |
| 14:19.03 | Estel_ | yes |
| 14:19.08 | Pali | ok |
| 14:19.14 | Estel_ | japan is broadest |
| 14:19.18 | Estel_ | kerio, not eu |
| 14:19.37 | kerio | Estel_: japan has power restrictions, and the hw can't do channels 12, 13 and 14 iirc |
| 14:19.44 | Estel_ | it can |
| 14:19.47 | Estel_ | I use 13 |
| 14:19.50 | Estel_ | daily |
| 14:20.01 | kerio | hm, i wonder who told me that |
| 14:20.02 | Estel_ | japan has power restrictions? 0_0 |
| 14:20.19 | kerio | it was the same person, mind you |
| 14:20.23 | Estel_ | since when? everyone have it, but japan got it highest |
| 14:20.41 | Estel_ | no, new zeland and japan is most liberate |
| 14:21.02 | Estel_ | btw my router uses channel 13 and N900 works with it nicely |
| 14:21.21 | Estel_ | at least no one i neighbourhood polluting it, except for interlapping from 11 |
| 14:21.50 | Estel_ | and if it was the same person i think it was, who told you that, then, oh well. You're not ignoring me anymore? :) |
| 14:22.20 | kerio | losing the track of the discussion is more annoying than you |
| 14:22.30 | kerio | >:( |
| 14:22.36 | Estel_ | well, so backscroll top my question what offended you ;) |
| 14:22.45 | Estel_ | s/to0/to/ |
| 14:23.04 | Pali | Este_, usbmode package updated |
| 14:23.16 | kerio | Pali: increased the timeout a bit? |
| 14:23.33 | Pali | after usb_enum from 1 to 3 |
| 14:23.48 | Estel_ | Pali, thanks, will test it with slowest (as per enumerate time required) |
| 14:23.51 | jonwil | btw, as of now the only closed blobs required for MeeGo/Mer/Nemo on N900 are WiFi firmware, GPS, bluetooth firmware, PowerVR and maybe camera |
| 14:24.10 | Pali | camera firmware is open |
| 14:24.17 | damo22 | is that all? |
| 14:24.28 | Pali | but you do not want to see source code of camera firmware |
| 14:24.31 | jonwil | Camera blob is not open (omap3cam) |
| 14:24.48 | Pali | jonwil, omap3cam not |
| 14:24.57 | Pali | but can be replaced with new v4l2 library |
| 14:25.36 | jonwil | so yeah most important missing piece is powervr userspace blobs |
| 14:25.55 | kerio | isn't fcam open too? |
| 14:26.05 | jonwil | hmmm yeah fcam is open |
| 14:26.09 | Pali | jonwil, it will be never open |
| 14:26.10 | damo22 | what i love about this device is that i can still ssh to it while the screen is off |
| 14:26.15 | Pali | and it will never be REd |
| 14:26.17 | jonwil | never say never |
| 14:26.23 | kerio | 3d |
| 14:26.30 | jonwil | Look at what the Noveau guys did for NVIDIA cards |
| 14:26.43 | jonwil | And look at what people of various sorts have been doing for other ARM GPUs |
| 14:27.14 | Pali | and look at what happened for all TI/PVR people which wanted to write OSS driver |
| 14:27.51 | kerio | jonwil: noveau "works" |
| 14:28.01 | jonwil | Noveau works just great on my Gentoo box |
| 14:28.16 | jonwil | Although to be fair said box only has a GeForce MX in it |
| 14:28.21 | jonwil | :P |
| 14:28.22 | Skry | RE effort has been going nowhere since it started |
| 14:28.56 | Pali | Skry, can you test if on 3.8 is working Ad-hoc wifi mode? |
| 14:28.57 | jacekowski | jonwil: noveau is still far from matching nvidia drivers |
| 14:29.04 | jacekowski | jonwil: feature and performance wise |
| 14:29.07 | Skry | and nouveau is, well, nouveau, for example it's unusable with my 7600GT which can be classified as legacy card already |
| 14:29.28 | Pali | Skry, packet injection driver patches on kernel-power causing kernel oops |
| 14:29.42 | *** join/#maemo gorans (~ircchatte@2.185.240.248) |
| 14:29.42 | jonwil | If I had more knowledge of linux graphics (and maybe a more recent/more usable copy of IDA) I would have a go at PowerVR bits myself (2D specifically) |
| 14:30.14 | kerio | Pali: you should really make a local repository of your unreleased software |
| 14:30.21 | jacekowski | as far as i know, no modern card has 2d acceleration |
| 14:30.30 | Pali | kerio, of what? |
| 14:30.38 | jacekowski | it's all done using 3d hardware |
| 14:30.40 | kerio | usbmode, bme replacement |
| 14:30.44 | kerio | battery applet |
| 14:30.49 | Pali | kerio, look at gitorious |
| 14:30.58 | kerio | i meant an apt repository |
| 14:31.08 | jonwil | N900 SGX can most definatly run and load GUI without a GL stack |
| 14:31.22 | Pali | kerio, battery applet is in cssu devel |
| 14:31.28 | kerio | is it? :o |
| 14:31.43 | Pali | I will create some bme replacement repository later |
| 14:32.17 | jacekowski | jonwil: it's all software hack apparently |
| 14:33.00 | jacekowski | jonwil: 3d hardware is perfectly capable of doing all the stuff required for 2d with minimal software help |
| 14:33.09 | jacekowski | jonwil: or firmware |
| 14:33.10 | kerio | jacekowski: so, when you play a 2d game that simulates 3d... |
| 14:34.01 | jacekowski | and well, modern desktop OSes and maemo does that as well |
| 14:34.11 | jacekowski | "2d" desktop is using 3d compositing |
| 14:34.36 | *** join/#maemo techlife (techlife@112.249.91.29) |
| 14:35.00 | jacekowski | that's why real 2d hardware is not really needed anymore, because 3d hardware is perfectly capable of generating 2d graphics |
| 14:37.03 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@89.106.198.136) |
| 14:38.24 | jonwil | well I can say for sure that my N900 is not using the 3D hardware right now to render its desktop (otherwise it would have loaded libglesv2.so into memory somewhere and it has not) |
| 14:38.51 | jacekowski | i though maemo uses compositing |
| 14:38.57 | kerio | h-d uses compositing, yes |
| 14:38.57 | jacekowski | as in hildon and stuff |
| 14:39.30 | jonwil | oh wait my fault |
| 14:39.33 | jonwil | its GLES not gles |
| 14:39.43 | jonwil | and yes hildon-desktop does have the library loaded |
| 14:40.03 | Skry | jonwil: http://powervr.gnu.org.ve/doku.php, now, start working :) |
| 14:41.33 | jonwil | cant do anything N900 at all until my gentoo box finishes emerging pyqt and then pykde and then the other 100 packages it needs to emerge before I can actually get into X and use it properly again |
| 14:42.18 | Skry | you don't need pyqt, pykde or kde for that matter to get into X |
| 14:42.26 | Skry | so poor excuse :) |
| 14:43.55 | jonwil | its not that I need those, its that I cant boot x because I need <package x> and I cant emerge <package x> until after phqt and pykde finish emerging |
| 14:44.03 | jonwil | because thats the order emerge has chosen to emerge things |
| 14:44.14 | jonwil | i.e. I have to wait for this emerge pass to finish before I can boot x |
| 14:44.43 | jacekowski | gentoo sucks |
| 14:44.52 | jacekowski | i've wasted years of my life on it |
| 14:44.59 | Skry | me too, can't say I miss it |
| 14:45.09 | jacekowski | i've compiled oo.o on 850Mhz duron with 256MB of ram |
| 14:45.28 | luf | jacekowski: has it finished yet? :D |
| 14:45.33 | Skry | :) |
| 14:45.54 | tadzik | if you compile oo.o on 850MHz, then you've got bigger problems than gentoo |
| 14:46.28 | jonwil | is glad he doesn't have OO.o on his box at all |
| 14:46.42 | Lava_Croft | open orifices are bad to have on your box |
| 14:46.57 | jacekowski | that was time when a lot of hardcore gentoo users used oo.o-bin ebuilds |
| 14:50.14 | *** join/#maemo MartinK_N9 (~MartinK_N@46.135.22.7) |
| 14:53.18 | jonwil | Gentoo seems like a great way to stress test older hardware, if it can handle a full emerge of kde* it can handle anything you can throw at it :) |
| 14:53.35 | *** join/#maemo xblindsidex (~user@212.152.85.32) |
| 14:54.17 | Estel_ | why depreciated oo.o instead of libreoffice? |
| 14:58.29 | *** join/#maemo myname24 (~myname@80.79.159.132) |
| 15:00.29 | *** join/#maemo florian (fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 15:06.51 | ShadowJK | would assume libreoffice didn't exist yet |
| 15:07.49 | ShadowJK | this ooo/lo thing is damn annoying. Just as I had managed to make people who whine at me for Word use ooo writer, i have to explain the libreoffice is same thing |
| 15:08.07 | ShadowJK | "but it looks totally different! How do I print!? Save!? Open!?" |
| 15:09.59 | nusse | press print/save/open |
| 15:10.12 | nusse | tell them to use latex |
| 15:16.43 | ShadowJK | they changed the icons, so normal users used with ooo can't find the right buttons anymore |
| 15:17.15 | ShadowJK | Now they're back to relearning from scratch |
| 15:17.34 | ShadowJK | because normal users' brains work like that |
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| 15:39.15 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 15:45.25 | kerio | ShadowJK: just install an office 2000 theme |
| 15:45.59 | *** join/#maemo luf (~luf@ip-89-102-208-114.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 15:47.27 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@lagrange.cloud-7.de) |
| 15:49.21 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 16:01.46 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: distraction! |
| 16:01.57 | *** join/#maemo FlameReaper (~assassin@203.106.65.1) |
| 16:05.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: what's up? |
| 16:06.53 | kerio | meh, not much |
| 16:07.09 | kerio | rmo seems to be even slower |
| 16:08.25 | *** join/#maemo FlameReaper (~assassin@203.106.65.1) |
| 16:09.24 | *** join/#maemo flux (flux@coffee.modeemi.fi) |
| 16:13.42 | Lava_Croft | i like how they changed star office's name and hoped people would forget that star office sucks |
| 16:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | 188.117.59.205 => 91.224.25.xxx 303kb 163kb 51.4kb |
| 16:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | 188.117.59.205 => 88.65.81.xxx 5.83kb 158kb 60.5kb |
| 16:14.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | 188.117.59.205 => 109.230.157.xxx 29.1kb 148kb 59.4kb |
| 16:14.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | the 3 cols are 4s/10s/40s iirc |
| 16:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | those are the fastest connections |
| 16:16.32 | kerio | perhaps the amount of connections is increasing because the old ones are slow? |
| 16:16.34 | *** join/#maemo Honoo (~assassin@203.106.65.1) |
| 16:19.13 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: unique IPs? |
| 16:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I'm busy with outher stuff |
| 16:20.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | root@stage:~# netstat -tn|wc -l |
| 16:20.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4070 |
| 16:20.44 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
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| 17:24.49 | *** join/#maemo techlife (techlife@112.249.91.29) |
| 17:29.06 | *** join/#maemo WizardNumberNext (~marek@2001:470:1f08:178b:92e6:baff:fe50:bed4) |
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| 17:37.47 | ShadowJK | heh, impressive |
| 17:40.12 | kerio | what? |
| 17:40.42 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 17:47.30 | ShadowJK | 4000 |
| 17:49.07 | ShadowJK | has 8ms ping to rmo |
| 17:51.31 | RST38h | tried updating tonight, failed |
| 17:51.36 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-50-192.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 17:53.00 | WizardNumberNext | maybe I would be able to run 'apt-get update', then |
| 17:54.28 | WizardNumberNext | 358ms min here, but it is UMTS at moment |
| 17:58.31 | WizardNumberNext | but at the moment I have 3.4ms ping to my server, which I consider rubbish, as desktop have rawly 0.1ms ping to server |
| 18:00.52 | kerio | from my bouncer, i have a 2ms ping to holmes.freenode.net :D |
| 18:02.02 | WizardNumberNext | do you have professional router or something |
| 18:02.28 | WizardNumberNext | I naver have seen anything smaller the 38ms from std router |
| 18:02.59 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AA5AF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:03.05 | WizardNumberNext | but I have seen 2ms to google, when I hooked myself directly to internet w/o stupid rubbish called router |
| 18:03.06 | kerio | i said my bouncer |
| 18:03.17 | kerio | it's not on my home connection :) |
| 18:03.29 | WizardNumberNext | true |
| 18:03.29 | kerio | it's on a friend's server, i assume in the same datacenter as the UK freenode server |
| 18:03.51 | kerio | but meh, i've got 40ms to google |
| 18:04.07 | WizardNumberNext | 2ms is still a lot |
| 18:04.57 | WizardNumberNext | man, connect some monster to virgin (modem, not this ad, which they give out now) and see how fast everything appears |
| 18:05.42 | WizardNumberNext | I have been connected directly for over month and I recognized true speed of virgin |
| 18:05.52 | kerio | so... get a better router |
| 18:06.20 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 18:06.28 | kerio | something to put openwrt/tomato on, or, if you're comfortable with closed-source software, something from mikrotik/routerboard (i heard they're really, really good) |
| 18:06.52 | WizardNumberNext | there's no good router, if you used AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ with 4GiB RAM as router previously |
| 18:07.07 | kerio | yes there is |
| 18:07.26 | kerio | these blanket statements are often inaccurate |
| 18:07.54 | kerio | a 300MHz arm cpu is enough to push packets around |
| 18:08.09 | WizardNumberNext | did you ever have seen 2x1GHz with 4GiB DDR2-800 RAM (and I am not speaking about something, what would worth more then both my computers together) |
| 18:08.46 | kerio | i've seen my laptop, i guess |
| 18:08.47 | WizardNumberNext | but routers have limited amount of RAM - max I ever have seen is 128MiB |
| 18:09.04 | kerio | i think mine has 64 |
| 18:09.21 | kerio | yep, with 46 free at the moment |
| 18:09.27 | kerio | 343 active connections |
| 18:09.37 | WizardNumberNext | now I have AMD Phenom II X4 965BE, 8GiB DDR2-1100 |
| 18:09.54 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 18:09.56 | kerio | i'm very interested in your hardware configuration |
| 18:10.05 | WizardNumberNext | I was handling 2700 connections without even smallest slow-down |
| 18:10.18 | Skry | duh |
| 18:10.31 | WizardNumberNext | ^that is server only^ |
| 18:10.46 | kerio | i doubt i could sustain 3000 connections with my adsl :( |
| 18:10.53 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 18:10.54 | WizardNumberNext | that's why it is not 1090T |
| 18:11.17 | WizardNumberNext | it depends on many factors |
| 18:11.24 | WizardNumberNext | not only adls |
| 18:11.25 | *** join/#maemo futpib__ (~futpib@89.106.198.80) |
| 18:11.45 | kerio | i'm not entirely certain my adsl modem is any good either |
| 18:11.59 | kerio | for one thing, it heats up more than my router |
| 18:12.12 | WizardNumberNext | with black-box rubbish router it was max 64 connections and already dropping outeven my e-mail connections were overloading this rubbish |
| 18:12.45 | WizardNumberNext | and that is just 5 accounts, so I do noit understand |
| 18:14.20 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd_ (~bef0rd@186.154.152.200) |
| 18:16.59 | ShadowJK | I've done thousands of connections through a 486 with 32M ram :) |
| 18:17.17 | WizardNumberNext | magician! |
| 18:17.36 | Estel_ | no, it's normal |
| 18:17.46 | Estel_ | using uber powerhog for server is quite... |
| 18:17.54 | Estel_ | well, waste of power, to say at least |
| 18:17.57 | *** join/#maemo wirr (~wirr@xdsl-188-155-48-66.adslplus.ch) |
| 18:18.03 | WizardNumberNext | stock settings for Linux Kernel would be around 256 for that amount of mem |
| 18:18.14 | Estel_ | wrt54gl with 32 ram and 200 mhz cpu easily handles building with 300 machines |
| 18:18.37 | ShadowJK | 4ms to rmo is sheevaplug - switch - router - switch - isp |
| 18:18.37 | Estel_ | 32mb variant (wrt54g with correct revision) could handle up to almost anything |
| 18:18.39 | WizardNumberNext | yes, when they are idle |
| 18:18.46 | Estel_ | nope |
| 18:18.53 | Estel_ | machines from various private users |
| 18:19.09 | Estel_ | really routing isn't that resource heavy, if you don't use crappy software |
| 18:19.19 | Estel_ | kerio, btw, openwrt support FOSS firmware too |
| 18:19.22 | WizardNumberNext | look - you will run out of memory handling single connection per client |
| 18:19.26 | Estel_ | one can use blobs or open rewrite |
| 18:19.32 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, nope. |
| 18:19.59 | WizardNumberNext | man packets take memory and you have no alternative for memory on router like this |
| 18:20.18 | WizardNumberNext | and routing takes its memory as well |
| 18:20.28 | Estel_ | are you trying to convince me that raw packets are swapped into memory? :) |
| 18:20.28 | ShadowJK | 32M in my 486 could run atleast 1000 simultaneous connections through nat :) |
| 18:20.39 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, exactly |
| 18:20.53 | WizardNumberNext | arp, mac, ip, routing - it adds up for memory starvation on 32MiB device |
| 18:21.05 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, trust me (tm) memory isn't used for buffering packets in those devices :P |
| 18:21.23 | Estel_ | you're kidding, it uses next to nothing |
| 18:21.31 | WizardNumberNext | ok, dropping packets, you still have arp, mac, ip, routing |
| 18:21.54 | Estel_ | well, I'm pretty sure that cpu power would be bootleneck, not memory |
| 18:22.15 | Estel_ | considering how many things of that type you can put there. And not every arp needs to sit in memory |
| 18:22.18 | WizardNumberNext | just counting raw values - 6+4*2, 14, 4+4 |
| 18:22.19 | ShadowJK | ya, my WRT54GL is limited by its cpu |
| 18:22.25 | WizardNumberNext | actually 4+4+4 |
| 18:22.36 | Estel_ | anyway, practice seems to prove that handling 256 active connection on 16MB wrt54g*is no problem |
| 18:22.50 | kerio | Estel_: my linksys isn't supported by openwrt properly :( |
| 18:22.54 | WizardNumberNext | every apr which is used have to sit in memory |
| 18:22.57 | Estel_ | kerio, sad face :( |
| 18:23.07 | kerio | and i'm worried about testing things because i don't have a serial port for it, so i could brick it |
| 18:23.15 | Estel_ | anyway, counting like that, you will end with millions of clients |
| 18:23.18 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki__ (~slau@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 18:23.21 | Estel_ | cpu is bootleneck |
| 18:23.26 | Estel_ | in extreme cases |
| 18:23.31 | ShadowJK | you don't need to know that many arp addresses.. arp of your upstream router, arp of lan clients |
| 18:23.33 | Estel_ | in normal cases, nothing is bootleneck |
| 18:23.46 | Estel_ | BTW, real bootleneck - G standard is limited to ~54Mbs :P |
| 18:23.57 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, exactly |
| 18:24.07 | ShadowJK | Estel_; well 20-ish ppayload |
| 18:24.11 | WizardNumberNext | ShadowJK: I agree - only those, which you use and they stay there for some time |
| 18:24.18 | WizardNumberNext | don't remember default now |
| 18:24.33 | ShadowJK | I meant through ethernet the WRT54GL is also limited in bandwidth |
| 18:24.46 | WizardNumberNext | anyway, packets still go through memory and CPU as there is no other route for them |
| 18:24.47 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, take no offense, you seems like nice guy, but constantly, you're trying to impress people here with some things that you have limited understanding of. Again, no offense |
| 18:25.10 | Estel_ | using some powerhog for router purposes won't, definitely, impress people on maemo.org, wrong target group |
| 18:25.23 | ShadowJK | connection tracking can be done in 16 bytes per connection :) |
| 18:25.24 | Estel_ | we're using 256MB RAM device to make wonders, so you know :P |
| 18:25.37 | ShadowJK | Though it'd be smarter to use a bit more ram |
| 18:25.40 | kerio | Estel_: http://routerboard.com/RB751G-2HnD is really, really nice |
| 18:25.44 | WizardNumberNext | Estel_: I am too lazy right now to have a look again, Linux Kernel documentation states acurate overhead for routing |
| 18:25.44 | Estel_ | ~32*1024 |
| 18:25.44 | infobot | 32768 |
| 18:26.01 | Estel_ | ~32768/16 |
| 18:26.01 | infobot | 2048 |
| 18:26.04 | kerio | sadly, it uses a closed OS :( |
| 18:26.15 | Estel_ | mhm |
| 18:26.29 | Estel_ | no idea, I stopped on wrtl54g*, as I'm allergic to N wifi standard |
| 18:26.36 | Estel_ | aka Ultimate Neighbourhood Wifi Jammer |
| 18:26.40 | kerio | wat |
| 18:26.45 | kerio | nobody ever uses 5GHz |
| 18:26.47 | ShadowJK | Estel_; lol |
| 18:26.53 | WizardNumberNext | have look on Buffalo - there's few of them with 128 or 256MiB RAM and half of that flash |
| 18:27.17 | Estel_ | bufallo are pretty decent, reportedly - to run debian on them :) |
| 18:27.23 | ShadowJK | Estel_; it'll only do 40MHz if it detects neighbouring channels are free |
| 18:27.30 | Estel_ | otherwise, 256 ram there is funny |
| 18:27.33 | kerio | ShadowJK: or if you force it to do so >:D |
| 18:27.39 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, if it respects documentation :P |
| 18:27.51 | WizardNumberNext | Estel_: I am going to buy one, as there is room to run something nmormal (e.g. debian as you said) |
| 18:27.52 | Estel_ | + what kerio said |
| 18:28.03 | kerio | Estel_: just use the 5ghz band, nobody is ever there |
| 18:28.15 | ShadowJK | nothing supports 5GHz also :) |
| 18:28.20 | Estel_ | btw running debian on router is kinda PoF - as there is no reason to not use openwrt, for example, using less resources |
| 18:28.33 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, 5GHz is awesomely free... |
| 18:28.37 | Estel_ | so empty there |
| 18:28.42 | Estel_ | would love to use it |
| 18:28.42 | WizardNumberNext | I can make debian use even less |
| 18:29.02 | WizardNumberNext | especially, because I understand what I am doing in term of configuring kernel |
| 18:29.06 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, no, you can't, as using same effort you can make openwrt use even less :P |
| 18:29.30 | WizardNumberNext | Estel_: you are quite right - it is better approach |
| 18:29.32 | Estel_ | try that debian with 2.4 kernel, which is fully supported and enough for openwrt |
| 18:29.41 | Estel_ | now compare resource usage of 2.4 kernel and recent ones |
| 18:29.45 | Estel_ | and power savings |
| 18:30.05 | Estel_ | btw i like debian on routers with 16 MB, it's fun |
| 18:30.14 | Estel_ | but I haven't found any real use for it |
| 18:30.17 | ShadowJK | 2.4 would be free here, but I'm using all of it |
| 18:30.19 | Estel_ | so switched back to openwrt |
| 18:30.26 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, lol |
| 18:30.30 | Estel_ | + bluetooth |
| 18:30.55 | Estel_ | fun fact - in last month I forget to take my device with me from workshop |
| 18:30.59 | WizardNumberNext | actually I never configured anything else then 2.6 |
| 18:31.04 | Estel_ | and i had headplug and bh-214 on me |
| 18:31.08 | WizardNumberNext | mind 3.x is still 2.6 |
| 18:31.13 | Estel_ | sound was perfect to ~90 meters |
| 18:31.24 | Estel_ | via bluetooth 0_p without any mods |
| 18:31.32 | ShadowJK | used to run 2.2 on that 486, but upgraded to 2.4 at some point |
| 18:31.52 | WizardNumberNext | used to run 2.2 on i586 |
| 18:32.08 | Estel_ | btw WizardNumberNext, you're n900 user, yes? |
| 18:32.15 | WizardNumberNext | actually almost any flawor of i586 |
| 18:32.17 | ShadowJK | Estel_; yeah it's not bad unobstructed |
| 18:32.30 | WizardNumberNext | Estelk_: yes |
| 18:32.32 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 18:32.42 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I remember some pays using cheap DIY antennas, getting 2.2 mile on bluetooth sniffing |
| 18:32.56 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, are you using dual-scud or any bigger battery? |
| 18:33.08 | WizardNumberNext | wow, nice thing - I would put it on mine computer |
| 18:33.26 | WizardNumberNext | no, just stock old bl-5j (1320mAh) |
| 18:33.31 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, better put it on N900, it have hirose u.fl internal connectors for wifi and bluetooth antenna |
| 18:33.50 | Estel_ | my prototype custom cover is at stage of adding single connector extendedd to all N900 internal hirose's |
| 18:33.53 | WizardNumberNext | Estel_: maybe one day, whenb I would have another one to play with |
| 18:34.13 | Estel_ | I would suggest buying 1500 mAh battery like polarcell or scud, then |
| 18:34.18 | Estel_ | mixing old and new battery is bad idea |
| 18:34.21 | Estel_ | for parallel |
| 18:34.49 | WizardNumberNext | never actually looked into details of dual-scud - how is made? |
| 18:35.09 | WizardNumberNext | I mean physically and/or connections |
| 18:35.12 | Estel_ | kerio, do you have some factoid for battery thread? |
| 18:35.18 | kerio | nope |
| 18:35.20 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, sure, just a second |
| 18:35.27 | kerio | but there's a fairly decent battery on aliexpress |
| 18:35.35 | kerio | vi____1 reported a calibration of 1600mAh |
| 18:35.40 | kerio | i bought the same model, got 1400 |
| 18:35.53 | WizardNumberNext | I am interested in averages |
| 18:36.14 | Estel_ | ~dual-scud is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568&highlight=3000+mAh+battery |
| 18:36.14 | infobot | okay, Estel_ |
| 18:36.17 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: connect two batteries in parallel |
| 18:36.20 | Estel_ | ~dual-scud |
| 18:36.20 | infobot | dual-scud is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568&highlight=3000+mAh+battery |
| 18:36.29 | kerio | Estel_: hrmpf, that's annoying |
| 18:36.36 | Estel_ | ? |
| 18:36.40 | WizardNumberNext | because one got 1600, one 1400, so average is 1500 and you can get worse or better, so it is lottery |
| 18:36.41 | kerio | infobot: no, dual-scud is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 |
| 18:36.41 | infobot | kerio: okay |
| 18:36.51 | Estel_ | oh, sorry |
| 18:36.58 | Estel_ | haven't noticed that |
| 18:37.05 | Estel_ | ~keriosnack |
| 18:37.08 | *** join/#maemo Scorcerer (scor@czlug.icis.pcz.pl) |
| 18:37.14 | Estel_ | ~snack kerio |
| 18:37.14 | infobot | ACTION throws kerio a doggy treat |
| 18:37.15 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: i'd get a polarcell, they seem to all be the same |
| 18:37.24 | Estel_ | chuckled |
| 18:37.53 | kerio | why dual-scud and not dual-polarcell? :P |
| 18:37.57 | Estel_ | well, relative capacity of polarcell can be 1700 |
| 18:38.05 | Estel_ | average is 1500, just like scud |
| 18:38.10 | Estel_ | maybe they even use same cells |
| 18:38.19 | WizardNumberNext | I heard polarcell is fairly good |
| 18:38.20 | Estel_ | kerio, historical reasons :P |
| 18:38.24 | WizardNumberNext | same scud |
| 18:38.38 | kerio | i'm worried about the long-term for these batteries, though |
| 18:38.43 | kerio | at least the polarcell has a brand name |
| 18:38.55 | Estel_ | well, next step will be 7000mAh battery |
| 18:38.55 | kerio | this one has some chinese writing on it |
| 18:39.01 | Estel_ | in my custom cover :P |
| 18:39.04 | kerio | including a "> 2000µAh" |
| 18:39.20 | Estel_ | kerio, scud is quite long living |
| 18:39.44 | Estel_ | mine got still ~2700 about all those years of usage |
| 18:39.50 | Estel_ | well, 2600 currently |
| 18:39.52 | Estel_ | to be fair |
| 18:39.59 | Estel_ | during heavier usage |
| 18:40.28 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 18:40.29 | Estel_ | freemangordon, out of curiosity - is there anything that can be done about glibc errors polluting syslog? |
| 18:40.38 | Estel_ | it makes sniffing for errors a little harder |
| 18:40.45 | kerio | iirc you can configure syslog to only report ERROR or above |
| 18:40.53 | kerio | those glib things are INFO |
| 18:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | "> 2000µAh"? haha, I am willing to believe them |
| 18:41.07 | Estel_ | well, true, but won't I miss smth important? |
| 18:41.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and it was! :D |
| 18:41.21 | Estel_ | I wonder what they had in mind |
| 18:41.25 | kerio | it was around 1400000µAh |
| 18:41.45 | Estel_ | well, I suppose it was about something inside protective PCB |
| 18:41.50 | Estel_ | not a cell itself :P |
| 18:42.03 | Estel_ | kerio, how you've emasured it to be 1400? |
| 18:42.12 | Estel_ | constant discharge rate? |
| 18:42.20 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (~quassel@pD9E9544A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:42.46 | kerio | constant at ~200mA |
| 18:42.56 | kerio | idling it would be a lot more i suppose |
| 18:43.04 | Estel_ | so rest assured, you've got as good battery as vi's |
| 18:43.13 | Estel_ | he measured it on device via average discharge |
| 18:43.16 | Estel_ | during normal usage |
| 18:43.22 | Estel_ | his relative capacity may be as high |
| 18:43.31 | Estel_ | but at you conditions he wuld get the same |
| 18:43.48 | WizardNumberNext | I got rid of skype, we'll see how much I would get of bl-5j |
| 18:43.56 | Estel_ | my 3100 mAh (when new) battery was made using 2 cells reporting ~1430 during constant discharge |
| 18:44.09 | Estel_ | google for "silver needle in the skype" pdf |
| 18:44.16 | Estel_ | and you won't even return to skype |
| 18:44.18 | WizardNumberNext | strange - they suddenly don't like charging outside of fridge |
| 18:44.26 | WizardNumberNext | getting smaller and smaller |
| 18:44.30 | Estel_ | especially, that their fiasco during vita release just reinforce silver needle theory |
| 18:44.37 | kerio | SpeedEvil: i forgot again, how am i supposed to figure out if the battery is healthy? i've got VOLT and CUR on both idle and load |
| 18:44.48 | Estel_ | well, once I explained you why you're doing it wrong with that fridge |
| 18:45.03 | Estel_ | why it's hoax placebo, and harmfull one (to cells) too |
| 18:45.08 | Estel_ | have you missed it? :P |
| 18:45.27 | SpeedEvil | kerio: in short - apply a rapid load, and measure the voltage drop |
| 18:45.35 | SpeedEvil | much drop means high ESR |
| 18:45.41 | WizardNumberNext | Estel_: as long as it is above 0C it should be fine |
| 18:45.46 | Estel_ | kerio, we need to convince Pali about adding edv1 and vdq to things exported by bq27x00_battery |
| 18:45.54 | WizardNumberNext | actually I was getting more and more charge this way |
| 18:45.56 | kerio | Estel_: well, they're exported |
| 18:45.59 | kerio | but badly |
| 18:46.04 | Estel_ | kerio, where? |
| 18:46.17 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, you was getting more *relative* charge |
| 18:46.23 | Estel_ | aka wasted power during charging |
| 18:46.26 | WizardNumberNext | to previous charge\ |
| 18:46.34 | teotwaki__ | Silver Needle, wasn't that the BH paper by two french dudes? |
| 18:46.35 | Estel_ | which never ever turn into relative discharge capacity oincrease |
| 18:46.43 | teotwaki__ | I think I met one of 'em while I was consulting for EADS. |
| 18:46.51 | kerio | Estel_: $(( ( $( grep 0x0a= registers | cut -d= -f2 ) & 4 ) / 4 )) |
| 18:46.54 | Estel_ | teotwaki, no idea who did it, but they were right |
| 18:46.56 | kerio | that's VDQ |
| 18:47.05 | Estel_ | some time later skype segfaulted on vista dropping some debug data |
| 18:47.14 | kerio | EDV1 is $(( ( $( grep 0x0a= registers | cut -d= -f2 ) & 2 ) / 2 )) |
| 18:47.17 | Estel_ | that allowed to get info about skype logging motherboard serial |
| 18:47.22 | SpeedEvil | it's not a valid discharge unless it'w over 7c |
| 18:47.24 | SpeedEvil | it's |
| 18:47.33 | kerio | SpeedEvil: yeah but which values are good? |
| 18:47.34 | Estel_ | they explained, that it was to "easily catch people stealing on their paid services" |
| 18:47.36 | WizardNumberNext | over 0.7C? |
| 18:47.37 | kerio | i don't know if the voltage drop is a lot |
| 18:47.42 | SpeedEvil | no, 7 |
| 18:47.59 | Estel_ | kerio, does it work when bq is loaded? doesnt it need i2c? |
| 18:48.04 | WizardNumberNext | how 7C? this would be 1320*7 |
| 18:48.05 | Estel_ | why isn't it properly exported? |
| 18:48.11 | WizardNumberNext | ~1320*7 |
| 18:48.11 | infobot | 9240 |
| 18:48.15 | Estel_ | to /sys/class/power_supply/bq27x00 |
| 18:48.19 | ShadowJK | 7 celcius? |
| 18:48.21 | kerio | Estel_: /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/registers :) |
| 18:48.23 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: I don't much care for tracking, there's a bazillion reasons for that. I do, however, care about adding anti-debugging features to your binaries :) |
| 18:48.24 | SpeedEvil | kerio: search ohm.sh on the wiki |
| 18:48.29 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yes |
| 18:48.30 | WizardNumberNext | oh, sorry misunderstood |
| 18:48.35 | Estel_ | teotwaki, exactly |
| 18:48.53 | Estel_ | I just mean that they indeed have thing to avoid determining what skype is really doing |
| 18:48.55 | WizardNumberNext | most of my discharges are in room temperature |
| 18:48.56 | Estel_ | on ones pc |
| 18:49.13 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: the bq* chip will not learn a new capacity if the temp is under 7, when evdf is hit |
| 18:49.15 | kerio | SpeedEvil: can't find shit |
| 18:49.19 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 18:49.21 | kerio | also, *edv1 |
| 18:49.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: charging of LiIon at low temperatures definitely NOT recommended |
| 18:49.27 | SpeedEvil | kerio: sorry, I'm going to sleep |
| 18:49.30 | Estel_ | well, even today, some fool (foolisness? as it was female) tried to force me into installing skype |
| 18:49.33 | WizardNumberNext | which is going to fall, as I lowered voltage on my CPUs in desktop and server, so temperature in room would fgall a bit |
| 18:49.34 | ShadowJK | evdf isn't used for learning at all, edv1 is |
| 18:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: you noticed my request to temporarily stop syncing to repo.m.o? |
| 18:50.31 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: I think I am going to finish this experiment anyway, as they charge shorter (maybe it better efficiency), so might be getting less charge |
| 18:50.33 | teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer05: not at all |
| 18:50.40 | kerio | 42V drop with a 137mA drop |
| 18:50.53 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05; a local-ish EV guy claims it's fine with the right cells, they just go high impedance briefly while warming up and then temp and impedance stabilizes to something sensible.. |
| 18:51.00 | kerio | with battery at 66% |
| 18:51.01 | teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer05: I'll shut off the sync of everything. |
| 18:51.07 | Estel_ | kerio, what you propose as sh line of script to get vdq value and edv1 value? |
| 18:51.19 | kerio | Estel_: as in the flags? |
| 18:51.25 | kerio | i told you |
| 18:51.25 | Estel_ | I would update bnf to be able of cooperating with palis-yours battery applet |
| 18:51.36 | Estel_ | $edv= |
| 18:51.43 | Estel_ | no, edv= |
| 18:51.50 | Estel_ | and then call $edv |
| 18:51.50 | teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer05: done |
| 18:51.52 | ShadowJK | kerio; fair |
| 18:51.54 | Estel_ | for example |
| 18:52.18 | Estel_ | I would like to add some if's to bnf, so it would use bq27x00 and i2c when bq27x00 is absent |
| 18:52.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: well, the datasheets I've seen so far are like: "discharge allowed temp: -20°C .. +60°C, charge 0°C .. 50°C" |
| 18:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: thanks |
| 18:52.33 | Estel_ | but bq27x00 doesnt allow me to get edv1 and vdq holy way |
| 18:52.42 | kerio | Estel_: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2111699 |
| 18:52.49 | ShadowJK | rmo needs to have a rsync service for mirrors, and then we need to add mirrors to repository.maemo.org A records for mirror-owner selectavle amount of time :D |
| 18:52.57 | kerio | ShadowJK: we just need a CDN |
| 18:53.10 | Estel_ | kerio, same for "calibration needed" flag |
| 18:53.11 | WizardNumberNext | so my charges are out of it, as I have less then 0C in frigdge |
| 18:53.17 | ShadowJK | kerio; meh |
| 18:53.26 | kerio | ShadowJK: cloudflare is fscking **free** |
| 18:53.29 | Estel_ | kerio, thanks |
| 18:53.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: that's a problem since we don't own maemo.org DNS yet |
| 18:53.37 | Estel_ | are you ware of calibration needed flag? |
| 18:53.42 | ShadowJK | if you have less than 0C in fridge your milk will freeze |
| 18:53.45 | kerio | Estel_: notice that those two functions return the opposite numerical value |
| 18:53.46 | teotwaki__ | ShadowJK: the way we do it on LMDE, is simply to have a package that lists all available mirrors, with a script which attempts to estimate the best mirror for one person, and simply update the source list file based on the user's choice. |
| 18:53.53 | Estel_ | why bq27x00 can't export all values re charging chip obtainable via i2c? |
| 18:53.57 | WizardNumberNext | I do use milk |
| 18:53.58 | Estel_ | as it blocks i2c |
| 18:54.03 | kerio | teotwaki__: why not do something like http.debian.net? |
| 18:54.04 | Estel_ | it should provide replacement |
| 18:54.10 | Estel_ | Pali, ^ |
| 18:54.15 | kerio | Estel_: they're exported, ffs |
| 18:54.16 | warfare | kerio: yes, but you have to use them as a nameserver. |
| 18:54.21 | teotwaki__ | kerio: infrastructure, mainly |
| 18:54.23 | kerio | just not in a practical way |
| 18:54.31 | Estel_ | kerio, I mean practical way |
| 18:54.34 | kerio | warfare: checked that CNAME thing? |
| 18:54.35 | Estel_ | why not? |
| 18:54.38 | kerio | Estel_: i2cget isn't practical at all |
| 18:54.47 | kerio | and checking a numerical value in a registers file is about the same |
| 18:54.49 | Estel_ | no, no, you got me wrong |
| 18:54.54 | Estel_ | sure it is |
| 18:54.58 | kerio | it would be nice, yes |
| 18:55.03 | teotwaki__ | kerio: LMDE is a very small distro, I haven't looked at http.d.n, but when we set up the system, this seemed easiest without requiring a central server to be up 24/7. |
| 18:55.05 | Estel_ | but if bq27x00 exports many values practical way |
| 18:55.11 | warfare | kerio: yes, but thats not in the free plan. |
| 18:55.11 | Estel_ | why not those useful ones too? |
| 18:55.39 | kerio | warfare: well i, for one, i welcome our new dns overlords |
| 18:55.50 | kerio | s/i welc/welc/ |
| 18:55.54 | Estel_ | kerio, how would you export calibration needed flag to? |
| 18:56.03 | warfare | kerio: The domain is still with nokia. |
| 18:56.05 | kerio | Estel_: by doing the same numerical manipulations |
| 18:56.17 | kerio | go figure out what's the appropriate register and the appropriate bit for it |
| 18:56.21 | Estel_ | I don't get syntax, how do you know that, where it is documented |
| 18:56.36 | teotwaki__ | rebooting, brb |
| 18:56.38 | kerio | i dunno, i just checked bq27200.sh |
| 18:56.39 | Pali | Estel_, you can access i2c bus when bq27x00_battery is loaded |
| 18:56.43 | Pali | use I2C_SLAVE_FORCE |
| 18:56.52 | kerio | Pali: oh hell naw |
| 18:57.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | (charging at low temp) just saying. Generally if something is specified as "allowed range: A .. B" then your sweet spot is neither A nor B but (A+B)/2 |
| 18:57.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a general pattern |
| 18:57.34 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: usually because at A-little and at B+little, you get actual damage :) |
| 18:58.20 | Pali | Estel, kerio, see: https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/1/19/162 and https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/1/20/20 |
| 18:58.23 | kerio | Pali: it would be really useful for scripts and such to get the flags in a more simple way - i'm not sure if there's something similar in the kernel api |
| 18:58.56 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki__ (~slau@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 18:59.07 | Pali | kerio, debugfs regmap interface |
| 18:59.23 | Pali | but I'm not going to touch bq27x00_battery kernel driver |
| 18:59.34 | kerio | Pali: not even for "cosmetic" changes? :( |
| 18:59.40 | Pali | if you need something, write patch and upstream it |
| 18:59.50 | Pali | kerio, I mean nothing new |
| 18:59.58 | kerio | maaaaaaaaan, having to parse "registers" sucks :( |
| 19:00.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's another pattern: "allowed range: < B", you pick a spot as much below and away from B as possible. See spec for R_short of USB ID: <200R. You gonna use short, not a resistor of any size |
| 19:00.14 | Pali | If there will be some bugs, I can look at it |
| 19:00.22 | Pali | but bq27x00_battery driver working fine |
| 19:00.25 | Pali | (now) |
| 19:00.37 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: "You can still access it if you use the I2C_SLAVE_FORCE flag." is bad, bad, bad advice, right? |
| 19:00.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 19:01.06 | kerio | https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/1/20/20 |
| 19:01.09 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@cm-84.211.113.209.getinternet.no) |
| 19:01.27 | kerio | isn't i2c the thing where if you force things, you get magic smoke? |
| 19:01.33 | kerio | *might gt |
| 19:01.36 | kerio | **get |
| 19:01.50 | Pali | kerio, you are reading properties |
| 19:02.00 | Pali | not writing to registers |
| 19:02.34 | Pali | kerio, if you want to export that properties (CI, ...), write regmap interface to kernel driver |
| 19:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yes |
| 19:03.07 | Pali | kerio, if your patch will be accepted to upstream, I can include it into kernel-power :-) |
| 19:03.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nfc what I2C_SLAVE_FORCE does, but you mustn't do concurrent access to I2C bus |
| 19:04.21 | Pali | #define I2C_SLAVE_FORCE 0x0706 /* Use this slave address, even if it is already in use by a driver! */ |
| 19:05.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | still doesn't say if they do any locking to ensure no two processes concurrently mess with I2C bus |
| 19:05.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | think of I2C like a printer |
| 19:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want two apps printing same time |
| 19:05.54 | teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer05: /nick badanalogyguy |
| 19:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need to finish one print job before allowing any other job to print |
| 19:06.25 | teotwaki__ | you mean like a semaphore? |
| 19:06.42 | Pali | mutex is enought |
| 19:07.41 | WizardNumberNext | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.43 | teotwaki__ | Last time I taught C/C++, I had a student ask "Excuse me, but what's a whole phore?" "I said semaphore, not semi-phore." |
| 19:07.44 | WizardNumberNext | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.47 | WizardNumberNext | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.49 | WizardNumberNext | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.51 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 19:07.52 | WizardNumberNext | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.53 | *** mode/#maemo [+q *!*@2001 470:1f08:178b:92e6:baff:fe50:bed4] by ChanServ |
| 19:07.53 | WizardNumberNext | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:07.58 | *** join/#maemo mrmist (~mrmist@freenode/staff/mrmist) |
| 19:07.59 | *** kick/#maemo [WizardNumberNext!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
| 19:08.09 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 19:08.12 | teotwaki__ | that's a bit harsh doc |
| 19:08.19 | *** mode/#maemo [-q *!*@2001 470:1f08:178b:92e6:baff:fe50:bed4] by ChanServ |
| 19:08.29 | RST38h | yawns |
| 19:08.34 | teotwaki__ | /cs quiet #maemo user |
| 19:08.53 | *** join/#maemo WizardNumberNext (~marek@2001:470:1f08:178b:92e6:baff:fe50:bed4) |
| 19:08.56 | kerio | weird mispaste |
| 19:08.58 | kerio | only newlines |
| 19:09.20 | WizardNumberNext | I think I've put plate on spce or something similar |
| 19:09.34 | Estel_ | sorry, got phone |
| 19:09.50 | Estel_ | what happened with backscroll? |
| 19:09.57 | Estel_ | never seen error like that |
| 19:09.57 | WizardNumberNext | I would think kernel would at least prevent same bus to be used twice in same time |
| 19:10.13 | teotwaki__ | WizardNumberNext: at least apologize. |
| 19:10.17 | WizardNumberNext | Me neither, but as you can see plates can do miracles |
| 19:10.24 | WizardNumberNext | I did |
| 19:10.34 | *** join/#maemo kloeri (~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri) |
| 19:10.38 | WizardNumberNext | directly below, when I realized what happened |
| 19:10.42 | teotwaki__ | nha |
| 19:10.47 | teotwaki__ | your client buffered the output |
| 19:10.51 | teotwaki__ | you were flooding one line every second |
| 19:10.56 | teotwaki__ | it never ran to the end |
| 19:11.43 | WizardNumberNext | anyway: I apologize for my weird behaviour - have no idea what exactly happened |
| 19:11.59 | teotwaki__ | no problem, we're always happy to kick someone. |
| 19:12.16 | WizardNumberNext | ouc |
| 19:12.18 | kerio | =D |
| 19:12.28 | WizardNumberNext | that hurts ;) |
| 19:12.42 | teotwaki__ | at least this time, we can use the excuse "For the greater good" |
| 19:12.50 | teotwaki__ | winks at Estel_ |
| 19:12.54 | WizardNumberNext | you actually can |
| 19:13.08 | WizardNumberNext | but anyway I got ban striaght away |
| 19:13.12 | Estel_ | Pali, kerio, DocScrutinizer05, summing it up, it is safe for me to access i2c for READ using slave_i2c, or is it as bad as infamous kernel patch? |
| 19:13.18 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (~philip@86.39.154.67) |
| 19:13.21 | WizardNumberNext | ChanServ was fast enough to react |
| 19:13.25 | teotwaki__ | I banned ya (only a speaking ban) |
| 19:13.30 | Estel_ | teotwaki, cheers ;) |
| 19:13.56 | WizardNumberNext | I got speaking ban and few seconds after completely disconnected |
| 19:14.27 | WizardNumberNext | this ban was usefull anyway - who know what would happen, if this would continue |
| 19:14.27 | Estel_ | because two people at once decided to take care of you |
| 19:14.27 | teotwaki__ | that was doc kicking you |
| 19:15.15 | WizardNumberNext | whatever - good he did that, I don't want to know how many empty lines it would send |
| 19:15.16 | teotwaki__ | the kick was probably more useful, it cleared your client's sending cache instantly. The mute would have had you send stuff for quite a bit of time, depending on the paste |
| 19:15.21 | Estel_ | Pali, kerio, DocScrutinizer05, as said, I would like to be sure that I'm not incorporating anything stupid into bnf. Many people use it, and blue smoke isn't fun, even if it's theoretical risk |
| 19:16.04 | Estel_ | so what about this slave i2c, is it safe for read, or very, very bad as said infamous patch eons ago? |
| 19:16.26 | WizardNumberNext | if we are speaking about cigarettes - it is ok for me, if it is about n900 - it is definitely NOT |
| 19:16.44 | Estel_ | kerio, write a patch and upstream it - you will get timeless glory as kernel hacker :P |
| 19:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: I dunno what's the deal with slave_i2c, but there's no such thing like READ on I2C |
| 19:16.49 | Pali | Estel_, I do not know, better ask on LKML |
| 19:17.05 | WizardNumberNext | Estel_: if it is true you are able to use same bus twice in same time, then nothing is safe |
| 19:17.09 | Estel_ | cheeesus, I think I'll stay with registrars |
| 19:17.34 | Pali | ask on LKML and/or i2c kernel maintainer what current linux code doing |
| 19:17.38 | WizardNumberNext | if there would be write going on, and you would try to read, you can actually write your command, instead of getting anything from device |
| 19:17.58 | Estel_ | kerio, wtf si that pastebin you've send me |
| 19:18.08 | kerio | my calibration script |
| 19:18.10 | Estel_ | Pali, I'll |
| 19:18.13 | Estel_ | kerio, nice |
| 19:18.19 | Estel_ | ah, I see |
| 19:18.27 | kerio | notice especially the vdq and edv1 functions |
| 19:18.32 | Estel_ | OK, so now I only need code for "calibration needed" flag |
| 19:18.35 | Estel_ | yea |
| 19:18.36 | kerio | (and notice that their output is reversed) |
| 19:18.41 | Pali | I think that nobody here not know how parallel i2c reading via kernel API working |
| 19:19.09 | Estel_ | so |
| 19:19.11 | Estel_ | vdq=return $(( 1 - ( ( $( grep 0x0a= registers | cut -d= -f2 ) & 4 ) / 4 ) )) |
| 19:19.19 | Estel_ | will give me vdq as 0 or 1? |
| 19:19.27 | Estel_ | when invoking $vdq |
| 19:19.32 | WizardNumberNext | Pali: I never have read that code (if I would understand it first), so I do not |
| 19:19.33 | Estel_ | or is it more complicated? |
| 19:19.58 | Estel_ | kerio, why it's reversed, btw? |
| 19:20.14 | Pali | Estel_, kernel i2c mailinglist: linux-i2c@vger.kernel.org |
| 19:20.23 | Estel_ | ~snack Pali |
| 19:20.24 | infobot | ACTION throws Pali a doggy treat |
| 19:20.39 | Estel_ | ~thanks Pali |
| 19:20.39 | infobot | de rien, Estel_ |
| 19:20.55 | teotwaki__ | ~french |
| 19:20.55 | infobot | Vous pouvez obtenir de l'aide sur Debian sur le canal #debian-fr - For help in french, please join #debian-fr |
| 19:20.56 | Pali | (from $ ./scripts/get_maintainer.pl -f drivers/i2c ) |
| 19:21.19 | Pali | ~slovak |
| 19:21.34 | WizardNumberNext | ok lets try: |
| 19:21.38 | WizardNumberNext | ~polish |
| 19:21.38 | infobot | somebody said polish was something used to make things shiny, or some language with MUCH too high a consonant-to-vowel ratio. /j #debian.pl, or a really good sausage |
| 19:21.38 | Pali | haha :D |
| 19:22.05 | WizardNumberNext | last one is true! |
| 19:22.22 | WizardNumberNext | english one is uneatable |
| 19:22.27 | Estel_ | ~english |
| 19:22.28 | infobot | i heard english is "In the words of the great Samuel L. Jackson; English, motherfuc*er. DO YOU SPEAK IT?!" - It is also more geographically spread than any other language |
| 19:22.35 | WizardNumberNext | read: poisonous |
| 19:22.47 | Estel_ | ~german |
| 19:22.47 | infobot | german is, like, #debian.de - deutschsprachige Debian-Hilfe gibt es in #debian.de |
| 19:22.57 | Estel_ | ~hail |
| 19:22.57 | infobot | i heard hail is chimp |
| 19:23.36 | Estel_ | ~teotwaki |
| 19:23.42 | Estel_ | :( |
| 19:24.03 | WizardNumberNext | ~Estel_ |
| 19:24.03 | infobot | it has been said that estel_ is Estel |
| 19:24.12 | Estel_ | wut? |
| 19:24.16 | Pali | ~Estel |
| 19:24.31 | WizardNumberNext | I do not know, but it worked opposed to ~teotwaki |
| 19:25.14 | Estel_ | ~kindergarden |
| 19:26.38 | Estel_ | kerio |
| 19:26.41 | Estel_ | your code returns |
| 19:26.57 | Estel_ | grep: registers: No such file or directory |
| 19:27.08 | Estel_ | -sh: arithmetic syntax error |
| 19:27.15 | Estel_ | it's due to: |
| 19:27.31 | Estel_ | ( $( grep 0x0a= registers | cut -d= -f2 ) |
| 19:27.33 | Estel_ | probably |
| 19:27.53 | kerio | are you using kp52? |
| 19:28.05 | Estel_ | sure |
| 19:28.22 | kerio | well, is there a "registers" file? |
| 19:28.32 | Estel_ | ash/bash compliance? |
| 19:28.35 | Estel_ | yes |
| 19:28.47 | Estel_ | grepping it causes xterm to hangs, though |
| 19:29.11 | Estel_ | emr |
| 19:29.19 | Estel_ | whele this file is supposed to be? |
| 19:29.41 | kerio | my script cds to /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/ |
| 19:30.18 | Estel_ | silly me |
| 19:30.43 | Estel_ | doesnt have it loaded |
| 19:30.44 | Estel_ | :P |
| 19:32.11 | Estel_ | -sh: 0: not found |
| 19:32.14 | Estel_ | wut the?... |
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| 20:01.05 | Estel_ | ~kill kerio |
| 20:01.05 | infobot | ACTION shoots a inverse graviton gun at kerio |
| 20:01.16 | Estel_ | blast you, it was all about your inversion of value |
| 20:01.30 | Estel_ | I spend last 30 minutes debugging why it doesn't want to work |
| 20:01.37 | Estel_ | and it was one ) too much :P |
| 20:01.44 | Estel_ | finally, vdq is: |
| 20:01.59 | Estel_ | $(( ( $( grep 0x0a= registers | cut -d= -f2 ) & 4 ) / 4 )) |
| 20:02.09 | Estel_ | minus $ |
| 20:06.39 | kerio | Estel_: it's clearly stated |
| 20:06.49 | kerio | vdq() returns success if vdq is set, failure otherwise |
| 20:06.55 | kerio | success is zero, failure is nonzero, in shellscripting |
| 20:07.59 | Pali | kerio, I have better solution for checking version of bme/hald-addon-bme |
| 20:08.15 | Pali | adding new property to hald-addon-bme which tell us that we using new replacement |
| 20:08.26 | kerio | fucking... yes |
| 20:08.46 | kerio | although, don't call it "bme replacement" |
| 20:08.47 | Pali | so will know at runtime if we are using replacemnt version of hald-addon-bme or not |
| 20:08.57 | Pali | kerio, version? |
| 20:09.04 | kerio | well, not really |
| 20:09.07 | kerio | what does it signify? |
| 20:09.13 | Pali | give me some key name and value |
| 20:09.28 | kerio | that even without the binary running, it still updates its values |
| 20:09.50 | kerio | meh, it's just a cosmetic thing anyway |
| 20:12.05 | Pali | kerio, what about key "maemo.bme.version" with value "1.0" ? |
| 20:12.25 | Pali | in hal device bme? |
| 20:12.52 | kerio | meh, whatever you want |
| 20:12.59 | kerio | perhaps bme-replacement is the most accurate, actually |
| 20:13.27 | Pali | we can increase that version if we add something in future |
| 20:13.50 | Pali | kerio, run: $ hal-device bme |
| 20:14.05 | Pali | to see all key/values in hald-addon-bme |
| 20:15.18 | kerio | maemo.version is probably right, i suppose |
| 20:15.21 | kerio | or maemo.bme.version |
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| 20:16.39 | iluminator105 | whats the commandline for the camera |
| 20:18.23 | Estel_ | Pali, does time to empty and time to end is calculated differently in bq27x00 than chip reports (via i2c, for example)? |
| 20:18.47 | Estel_ | there is average and "now", I wonder which one is more in line with old bq27200.sh script. ShadowJK? |
| 20:19.07 | Pali | Estel_, bq27x00_battery kernel driver only export what chip reports |
| 20:19.14 | Estel_ | I see |
| 20:19.30 | ShadowJK | Estel_; dunno what you mean? |
| 20:19.33 | Pali | Estel_, look at source code |
| 20:19.48 | ShadowJK | Rate and TTF/TTE are as reported by chip |
| 20:20.27 | Pali | Estel_: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=tree;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches;hb=HEAD |
| 20:20.32 | iluminator105 | to bring up the camera |
| 20:20.37 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, bq27200.sh reports time to empty and time to full as you've said, but pali also extracted "time to empty average" and "time to empty now" |
| 20:20.45 | Estel_ | Pali, thanks |
| 20:20.59 | Pali | Estel_, bq27200.sh reporting more times |
| 20:21.04 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I wonder which one bq27200.sh uses, average or now? |
| 20:21.11 | ShadowJK | well the chip doesn't have a time to empty average. |
| 20:21.11 | Estel_ | right |
| 20:21.26 | Pali | #define BQ27x00_REG_TTE 0x16 |
| 20:21.26 | Estel_ | so how bq27x00_battery calculates average? |
| 20:21.31 | Pali | #define BQ27x00_REG_TTF 0x18 |
| 20:21.36 | Pali | #define BQ27x00_REG_TTECP 0x26 |
| 20:21.42 | Estel_ | ough |
| 20:21.56 | Pali | these 3 ^^ values are used in driver |
| 20:22.02 | Estel_ | nods |
| 20:22.37 | Pali | register BQ27x00_REG_TTECP is used for time_to_empty_avg sysnode |
| 20:22.59 | Estel_ | I see |
| 20:23.13 | Estel_ | well, the one I've used is 0x16 |
| 20:23.45 | Estel_ | no reason why not update bnf to report both of them |
| 20:27.11 | ShadowJK | oh, so like same as TTE more or less, but adjusted for constant power rather than constant current discharge? |
| 20:28.31 | ShadowJK | So it should be a 5.12 sec average too |
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| 20:29.22 | dimir | It's a miracle, but RMO seems to be up. :-D |
| 20:29.33 | kerio | been up for a while |
| 20:29.38 | kerio | been slow for a while |
| 20:29.51 | dimir | ye, been up for many hours. |
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| 20:31.36 | iluminator105 | what the command to bring up the camera in commandline |
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| 20:34.09 | iluminator105 | i am out thanks guys catch you later will get to it later, kerio got ssh working thanks later |
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| 20:44.14 | kerio | Pali: what about using bq27k data if it's available, over everything else? |
| 20:44.28 | Pali | where? |
| 20:44.35 | kerio | battery applet |
| 20:45.28 | Pali | kerio, if you have idea for "design cpacity", create wiki page and write it there |
| 20:45.35 | kerio | i already told you my idea |
| 20:45.37 | Pali | I already told you this |
| 20:45.51 | kerio | calibrated bq27200 trumps **everything else** |
| 20:45.52 | Pali | irc is not good for this discussion |
| 20:46.32 | kerio | Pali: what's the difference between battery.reporting.last_full and battery.charge_level.last_full? |
| 20:47.45 | Estel_ | Pali, afaik most kernel changes were done aftr irc discussions |
| 20:47.54 | Pali | in hald addon bme: battery.charge_level.last_full = 8*battery_info->power_supply_charge_full/battery_info->power_supply_charge_design |
| 20:47.56 | Estel_ | why userland battery applet must be different? |
| 20:48.29 | Estel_ | it's obvious that some random value reported via resistor in battery's pcb is worse than anything from bq27x00, even when uncalibrated |
| 20:48.42 | Estel_ | you could as good hardcode anything instead of using rx51_battery data |
| 20:48.47 | Pali | Estel_, need to write all positive & negative aspects for solutions |
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| 20:48.52 | Estel_ | it would be as close to reality as that resistor |
| 20:48.56 | Pali | same as wiki page for kernel in cssu |
| 20:49.17 | Estel_ | doesn't we know al pros and cons already? I'm all for discutting things, but there is no other solution |
| 20:49.23 | Estel_ | no different approach to consider |
| 20:49.39 | Estel_ | sure, thats why we dont have kernel in cssu and wont have in years :P |
| 20:49.46 | kerio | Pali: anyway, i doubt we'll ever going to get anywhere with this - is there some facility to set configurations in the battery applet? what should we use? making it configurable (with some hidden gconf keys maybe?) would be better |
| 20:49.46 | Estel_ | joking |
| 20:50.07 | Estel_ | pali, all resistors in batteries are for around 1300mAh |
| 20:50.18 | Estel_ | if bq27x00 isn't calibrated, just display "unknown" there |
| 20:50.29 | Estel_ | or "need calibration" |
| 20:50.30 | Estel_ | whatever |
| 20:50.40 | Pali | Estel_, I do not remember what everybody said on IRC, and I really do not want to search IRC logs for that |
| 20:50.45 | Estel_ | and show percents as bme is doing it, via voltage |
| 20:50.45 | Pali | so reason why to create wiki page |
| 20:50.50 | Estel_ | I see |
| 20:50.52 | Pali | have all info at one place |
| 20:50.54 | Estel_ | well, it's good reason |
| 20:50.56 | kerio | Estel_: bme voltage is fucked up, though |
| 20:51.16 | Estel_ | I'll try to find some spare time for that wiki - actually did it already but wiki worked at 17b/s at the time |
| 20:51.26 | Estel_ | kerio, better than design capacity :P |
| 20:51.34 | Pali | now we have working maemo wiki, so we can use it |
| 20:51.37 | Estel_ | remember, it's failsafe to bq not calibrated |
| 20:51.38 | Estel_ | yea |
| 20:51.38 | kerio | is it? it assumes a specific voltage profile |
| 20:51.43 | kerio | doesn't it |
| 20:51.44 | Estel_ | well, I agree |
| 20:52.15 | Estel_ | kerio, in worst case user have what he have with stock bme, in any other cvase (bq calibrated) user have precise value |
| 20:52.41 | Estel_ | can't think of better solution |
| 20:53.19 | Pali | so what we need is: which icon show in battery applet (we have 8 icons), next how to calculate percentage (if will be shown in applet), next what to show for design capacity (if something) |
| 20:53.25 | Pali | provide solution on wiki |
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| 20:54.04 | Pali | we can modify it and then choose final solution which will be (re)implemented in hald-addon-bme and battery applet |
| 20:54.16 | Pali | kerio, Estel_ ^^^ |
| 20:57.01 | Estel_ | good idea, Pali |
| 20:58.53 | Pali | sources which can be used for applet: hald-addon-bme, hal bq27x00_battery device (created automatically), hal rx51_batttery device (created automatically) |
| 20:59.49 | Pali | sources which can be used in hald-addon-bme: anything (because running as root), but preffered is to read only values from /sys/class/power_supply/ |
| 21:00.13 | Pali | current implementation of applet is on: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-area-applet-battery |
| 21:00.42 | Pali | current implementation of hald-addon-bme is on: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/hald-addon-bme |
| 21:02.12 | Pali | kerio, when you will have your idea (on wiki), write me |
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| 21:05.52 | framework_nulled | Hi, Can anyone help me with vnc viewer? |
| 21:06.21 | kerio | we can't know until you give us a bit more details |
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| 21:07.02 | framework_nulled | Well, I can connect fine when I remove my password on my vps |
| 21:07.13 | framework_nulled | But when there's a password vnc viewer always says invalid password |
| 21:07.19 | framework_nulled | Even if it's the right password |
| 21:13.15 | kerio | the vnc viewer where? |
| 21:14.33 | framework_nulled | on nokia n900 |
| 21:15.02 | Estel_ | which viewer |
| 21:15.17 | Estel_ | tried using abcdef as password? |
| 21:15.28 | Estel_ | to filter out symbols problems? |
| 21:15.40 | framework_nulled | windows server won't let me use anything simple |
| 21:15.48 | Estel_ | confirmed, that from other viewer, in same situation, it works? |
| 21:16.03 | Estel_ | erm? |
| 21:16.09 | framework_nulled | I've only tried the VNC Viewer on n900 |
| 21:16.15 | Estel_ | so use tight vnc or anything else configurable |
| 21:16.30 | Estel_ | well, I recommend presenceVNC for vnc and rdesktop for rtp |
| 21:16.32 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 21:16.32 | kerio | iirc there's two vnc viewers |
| 21:16.48 | framework_nulled | I'll try presencevnc |
| 21:16.49 | Estel_ | which vnc server you use on desktop |
| 21:17.02 | framework_nulled | tightvnc is on my desktop |
| 21:17.18 | Estel_ | I would say it's problem with server not viewer - I recommended presencevnc as it's more adapted to N900 |
| 21:17.28 | Estel_ | so why it won't let you any simple password? |
| 21:17.40 | Estel_ | last time I've checked tight wasn't picky |
| 21:18.19 | Estel_ | my usual way for connecting to vnc is setting server to accept local connections only, and ssh'in from device, creating local port forwarding |
| 21:18.37 | Estel_ | so on device i connect to 127.0.0.1:<forwarded_port> |
| 21:18.47 | Estel_ | this way everything works ok, and i can screw vnc password |
| 21:18.57 | Estel_ | as ssh private key auth takes care of it |
| 21:19.28 | Estel_ | not that I doesn't have vnc password set anyway - and it works. as a security paranoia level, and just for the fun of it |
| 21:19.38 | Estel_ | so it should work for you too.... hm. |
| 21:19.51 | Estel_ | but you used term vps |
| 21:19.59 | Estel_ | was it meant to be vnc or you really mean vps? |
| 21:20.31 | Estel_ | and if yes, what vps have to do with it? |
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| 21:25.56 | framework_nulled | i was connecting to my windows vps |
| 21:26.10 | framework_nulled | it's working now, for some reason when i used the on screen keyboard it accepted my password |
| 21:26.26 | framework_nulled | but when i type it from the keyboard it says invalid password |
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| 21:47.33 | Estel_ | framework_nulled, you mean on-screen keyboard on N900? |
| 21:47.52 | Estel_ | vnc viewer seems to not ccept some symbols from hardware key mappings, then |
| 21:48.04 | kerio | it's probably because it's qt |
| 21:48.09 | kerio | and qt fails HARD at keyboard input |
| 21:48.21 | Estel_ | true, sadly |
| 21:48.40 | framework_nulled | yeah estel_ |
| 21:48.50 | framework_nulled | when i use the on-screen keyboard i can login fine |
| 21:48.58 | framework_nulled | when i don't use it i get an invalid password error |
| 21:49.21 | kerio | can you test in Notes if what you think you're inputting is actually being input? |
| 21:49.49 | Estel_ | notes isn't qt, is it? |
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| 21:50.03 | Estel_ | he should try it at some other field in vnc viewer |
| 21:50.04 | kerio | maybe he has caps lock enabled :P |
| 21:50.17 | Estel_ | very funny :P |
| 21:50.23 | framework_nulled | i don't |
| 21:50.26 | framework_nulled | i turned that off |
| 21:50.32 | framework_nulled | and yeah it shows up fine in the notes |
| 21:50.46 | Estel_ | kerio, how to get imin from registers? again, where have you found explanation where some value is hardcoded in registers? |
| 21:50.53 | Estel_ | or is it raw sniff from i2c |
| 21:51.02 | Estel_ | and you use same calculation as for i2c values? |
| 21:52.09 | kerio | Estel_: read the bq27000.sh source |
| 21:52.21 | kerio | or the bq27k_detail.sh source |
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| 21:57.34 | Estel_ | kerio, so it's the same as i2c |
| 21:57.41 | kerio | i assume so |
| 21:57.48 | Estel_ | and trust me, I've been through bq27200.sh sources many times :P |
| 21:57.48 | kerio | well, it's not sniffing |
| 21:57.51 | kerio | it's polling |
| 21:57.57 | Estel_ | yep, it was coloqualism |
| 21:58.09 | Estel_ | as in sniffing other, more physical things |
| 21:58.17 | Estel_ | if you get the pun. Or not. |
| 21:58.49 | Estel_ | btw define difference between sniffing and polling? ;) |
| 22:00.04 | kerio | sniffing is passive, polling is active |
| 22:00.16 | Estel_ | well, true |
| 22:00.42 | Estel_ | you actually talk to i2c, not just read data |
| 22:00.50 | Estel_ | like with registers file |
| 22:00.56 | Estel_ | traps, traps everywhere! |
| 22:01.21 | Estel_ | excuse my specifinc sense of humour, while scripting new version on bme, I'm in "coding" madness ;) |
| 22:01.27 | Estel_ | scripting sadness |
| 22:01.27 | Estel_ | etc |
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| 22:06.44 | luf | freemangordon: Welcome back man. What about you health? Is it better now? |
| 22:15.12 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@24.98.176.94) |
| 22:29.28 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e250:8401:fdc1:b8a:a61e:5675) |
| 22:29.42 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@212.255.251.204) |
| 22:30.40 | Estel_ | Pali, sorry for interrupting you, but I got small dillemda related to your newest implementation of bq27x00_battery as in newest kp's |
| 22:31.01 | Estel_ | as you remember, there were earlier version of that module in olders KP's, that had wrong calculations |
| 22:31.10 | Estel_ | there is still a chance that someone may be using it, though |
| 22:31.36 | Estel_ | now, I want to check, in my script, that bq27x00_battery is *loaded*= but *only* the "fixed" one |
| 22:31.55 | Pali | irrelevant for bme replacement which working only with >= kp52 |
| 22:32.01 | Estel_ | now, how to distinguish it from older one on older kernels? |
| 22:32.09 | Estel_ | well, my script works with or without bme replacement |
| 22:32.14 | Pali | use uname for kernel version |
| 22:32.25 | Estel_ | it uses bq27x00_battery exported data, and if not, i2cget |
| 22:32.26 | Pali | $ uname -r |
| 22:32.32 | Estel_ | well, kernel present != module loaded |
| 22:32.55 | Pali | check if exists dir /sys/class/... |
| 22:32.56 | Estel_ | of course I though about that, but I don't want to force usage of this module on BNF users, even if the6're kp users |
| 22:33.08 | Estel_ | sure, but it exist for older kenrnel too |
| 22:33.18 | Estel_ | and old module with wrong values |
| 22:33.24 | Pali | check kernel version |
| 22:33.30 | Pali | $ uname -r |
| 22:33.38 | Estel_ | at the same time... hm, ok |
| 22:34.00 | Estel_ | thanks |
| 22:34.38 | Estel_ | btw on which version of KP you've fixed bq27x00_battery, Pali? |
| 22:34.42 | Estel_ | since which version? |
| 22:35.17 | Pali | I do not know, I fixed different problems in different versions |
| 22:35.40 | Pali | and now I see that in upstream kernel and kernel-power temperature of bq27x00_battery is reported in bad units |
| 22:36.22 | Pali | kernel api say that it should be reported in 1/100°C but bq27x00_battery report it in 1/10°C |
| 22:36.41 | Estel_ | 0_o deja-vu |
| 22:36.42 | Pali | rx51_battery reporting temperature in 1/100°C |
| 22:36.59 | Pali | I do not know if changing it in kernel-power is good idea |
| 22:37.01 | Estel_ | do you remember ammount of false bug reports, when you've changed it? :P |
| 22:37.16 | Pali | but I will sent patch to upstream kernel |
| 22:37.18 | *** join/#maemo LinuxCode (~LinuxCode@fedora/LinuxCode) |
| 22:37.19 | Estel_ | sure |
| 22:37.27 | Estel_ | if they accept it, then bring it to kp |
| 22:37.50 | LinuxCode | when will this hash sums stuff be fixed for extra-devel ? |
| 22:37.54 | LinuxCode | I cannot seem to install some packages from extra-devel because of it |
| 22:38.08 | Pali | Estel_, see: https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/2/3/274 |
| 22:38.38 | LinuxCode | does the CSSU kernel have hardware support for aes ? |
| 22:38.50 | LinuxCode | http://maemo-community-mailing-lists.2589537.n2.nabble.com/N900-AES-and-SHA1-MD5-hw-acceleration-drivers-td5495027.html |
| 22:38.55 | LinuxCode | I cam across this |
| 22:38.59 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:38.59 | Pali | LinuxCode, do you mean omap AES support? |
| 22:39.05 | LinuxCode | yes |
| 22:39.08 | Pali | no |
| 22:39.12 | jacekowski | no? |
| 22:39.16 | Pali | yes |
| 22:39.18 | jacekowski | kernel power had aes support |
| 22:39.20 | Pali | no kernel support |
| 22:39.21 | freemangordon | it needs some special NOLO |
| 22:39.32 | Pali | it needs special *x-loader* |
| 22:39.33 | jacekowski | not that special |
| 22:39.51 | jacekowski | it's only one mshield register that is set differently |
| 22:39.51 | freemangordon | jacekowski: hmm? |
| 22:40.12 | Estel_ | well, truecrypt would benefit like hell from hardware aes support, I suppose |
| 22:40.17 | LinuxCode | will I start a war, if I ask if it will be in eventually ? |
| 22:40.26 | LinuxCode | Estel_, so would dm-crypt |
| 22:40.32 | Estel_ | nods |
| 22:40.43 | freemangordon | Estel_: IIRC according to benchmarks HW is slower than SW |
| 22:40.46 | Pali | I asked nokia developer and he told me that special x-loader has included special binary blob in secure mode which doing something whith mshield |
| 22:40.46 | LinuxCode | ever since I heard reports that the UK police will now just read people's mobiles out |
| 22:40.57 | LinuxCode | I am feeling distinctly uneasy |
| 22:40.58 | Pali | something which cannot be configured from kernel or nolo |
| 22:41.00 | Estel_ | never though we have smth like it. Well, even without hw aes, twofish and serpent works quite fast, still |
| 22:41.15 | Estel_ | freemangordon, was afraid about smth like that |
| 22:41.19 | freemangordon | jacekowski: we don't have code in kernel running in secure mode |
| 22:41.33 | jacekowski | freemangordon: it's not about secure mode |
| 22:41.34 | *** part/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 22:41.34 | Pali | jacekowski, do you have some more info about it? |
| 22:41.48 | jacekowski | freemangordon: it's about enabling the hardware, and that is controlled by mshield stuff |
| 22:41.52 | Estel_ | freemangordon, so any reason to use hw aes "acceler"? |
| 22:42.14 | Estel_ | LinuxCode, about police - ha ha, I would like to see one reading N900's encrypted content |
| 22:42.23 | jacekowski | freemangordon: according to benchmark HW AES was faster than SW |
| 22:42.27 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 22:42.29 | Estel_ | just be sure to have lock code set to 5 minutes |
| 22:42.42 | Pali | >> You need special boot loader, because it has secure code to enable it.. You cannot do it from non-secure side. << |
| 22:42.50 | jacekowski | freemangordon: as in, someone tried it in this channel |
| 22:43.00 | Pali | >> Nolo has binary blob for that. << |
| 22:43.18 | freemangordon | jacekowski: ok, my memories are vague. However, we can't change anything but AUX reg from the kernel. And we don;t have the keys to sign PPA application |
| 22:43.41 | Pali | >> In order to use AES hw it is necessary to enable it during boot from Secure side. It is done by special code which is compiled as part of bootloader. << |
| 22:43.46 | LinuxCode | so I guess we wont see it then |
| 22:43.50 | Estel_ | lets slice clod brute force on keys during every kp and cssu installation |
| 22:43.53 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 22:44.06 | Pali | this is what nokia developer told me |
| 22:44.25 | freemangordon | Pali: could there be some call to the secure monitor? |
| 22:44.25 | Estel_ | LinuxCode, don't be sad, though - IDK why, but on N900, serpent seems fastest during benchmarks |
| 22:44.28 | Estel_ | no idea why |
| 22:44.38 | Estel_ | as we have more support for twofish and aes, theoretically |
| 22:44.46 | Pali | but I have that *special* flasher, x-loader, nolo and source code of kernel drivers |
| 22:44.59 | jacekowski | freemangordon: we don't have to |
| 22:45.07 | freemangordon | Pali: the problem is that it is only for one HW revision iirc |
| 22:45.15 | Pali | freemangordon, I asked that nokia developer and he told me that it is not possible |
| 22:45.17 | jacekowski | freemangordon: once bootloader enables it, you can use it fine from unsecure kernel |
| 22:45.38 | freemangordon | jacekowski: sure, but we don;t have that bootloader |
| 22:45.40 | Pali | freemangordon, all 21xx and 22xx have same xloader and nolo |
| 22:45.43 | jacekowski | freemangordon: we do |
| 22:45.49 | freemangordon | hmm, ok |
| 22:45.55 | Pali | so that is not for one but for more hw revision |
| 22:46.22 | Estel_ | there are only two revisions in practical existence, and another 2 virtually non-existent now |
| 22:46.25 | jacekowski | someone linked it like 2 years ago in this channel |
| 22:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the signature is same for all hw rev |
| 22:46.31 | LinuxCode | only reason why I mentioned AES hw support is, that surely there will be power savings |
| 22:46.34 | Pali | jacekowski, do you know if it is possible to enable it from non secure side? |
| 22:47.01 | freemangordon | Pali: I doubt that will be possible |
| 22:47.24 | jacekowski | from limited amount of information i could find about mshield, yes it is possible |
| 22:47.28 | jacekowski | if mshield is configured to allow it |
| 22:47.40 | jacekowski | so that is no in our case |
| 22:47.47 | LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer05, does the extra-devel repo need updating or something, I keep getting hash sums mismatches, which then means I cant install stuff |
| 22:47.50 | Pali | jacekowski, do you have some information about mshield? |
| 22:47.56 | jacekowski | Pali: very limited |
| 22:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | LinuxCode: the key is expired |
| 22:48.06 | LinuxCode | merlin1991, mentioned something about rebuilding/re-checkign that ?!?! |
| 22:48.07 | Pali | I was not able to find anything |
| 22:48.13 | jacekowski | Pali: mostly marketing stuff |
| 22:48.20 | jacekowski | Pali: no real technical info |
| 22:48.22 | LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer05, elaborate please |
| 22:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | LinuxCode: ask pali about it, he knows all the details |
| 22:48.32 | LinuxCode | gpg key used for signing ? |
| 22:48.38 | *** join/#maemo xblindsidex (~user@212.152.85.32) |
| 22:48.46 | Pali | jacekowski, ok |
| 22:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, or maybe I'm completely wrong |
| 22:49.01 | Pali | LinuxCode, GPG key on downloads.maemo.nokia.com was expired |
| 22:49.08 | LinuxCode | ahh k |
| 22:49.11 | Pali | so SSU and OVI repositories not working |
| 22:49.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess the extras(-devel) is autobuilder related |
| 22:49.17 | Estel_ | LinuxCode, either use apt directly, or fapmanp or red pill mode |
| 22:49.18 | LinuxCode | so how can I disable gpg key checks for extra-devel ? |
| 22:49.24 | LinuxCode | well I did apt |
| 22:49.30 | LinuxCode | it bitches there too |
| 22:49.36 | Estel_ | if 3th option, then disable those superiority of signed content in options |
| 22:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991 and thedead1440 should know what's the problem with hashsum |
| 22:49.44 | Pali | extras-devel is on maemo.org |
| 22:49.51 | Pali | and GPG key is without expiration date |
| 22:49.59 | LinuxCode | hmmm |
| 22:50.09 | Estel_ | LinuxCode, maybe you're using some mirror? |
| 22:50.11 | LinuxCode | I tried to install cryptfs |
| 22:50.21 | LinuxCode | Estel_, let me double check |
| 22:50.31 | Estel_ | LinuxCode, why the hell encrypt home? |
| 22:50.38 | LinuxCode | no extras-devel |
| 22:50.43 | LinuxCode | r.m.o |
| 22:50.53 | freemangordon | Pali, jacekowski: I guess we can disassemble xloader with and without that mshield stuff and check what needs to be dome |
| 22:51.01 | Estel_ | You're keeping that confidential non-police-eyes data on opt, or what? |
| 22:51.15 | LinuxCode | Estel_, ? |
| 22:51.15 | Estel_ | truecrypt partition seems more reasonable re performance and power savings |
| 22:51.31 | Estel_ | well, I wonder why do you want to encrypt whole $HOME |
| 22:51.35 | LinuxCode | I havent done anything yet, I just want to install a few things from extra-devel |
| 22:51.37 | Pali | freemangordon, that nokia developer wrote me that he included into x-loader/nolo some binary blob without source code |
| 22:51.39 | LinuxCode | without getting the error |
| 22:51.51 | Estel_ | there is GUI'fied (without sacrificing CL) latest TrueCrypt in repos |
| 22:52.09 | Estel_ | just repartition your emmc or sd card and encrypt whole partition via truecrypt |
| 22:52.12 | Estel_ | or two of them |
| 22:52.36 | Estel_ | one for less-secure things, and then config maemo to keep addressbook, mails, passwords, settings, photos and videos there... |
| 22:52.42 | LinuxCode | that is one option |
| 22:52.48 | Estel_ | and auto-mount it at boot time, just provising password and keys |
| 22:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | LinuxCode: Estel_ is in a rage, he highlighted you on accident |
| 22:52.58 | LinuxCode | k |
| 22:53.02 | Estel_ | wtf? |
| 22:53.05 | Estel_ | no, I don't. |
| 22:53.12 | LinuxCode | so, how do I fix this hash sums issue for extras-devel ? |
| 22:53.21 | *** join/#maemo ian--- (ian---@78.133.48.25) |
| 22:53.23 | LinuxCode | that would really help me out ;-} |
| 22:53.30 | Estel_ | actually, we're talking about encyption, and you interlooped, DocScrutinizer05 ;) |
| 22:53.35 | LinuxCode | also stop me from hammering the repo twice |
| 22:54.00 | Estel_ | LinuxCode, no idea about repo key, but as for your needs about encrypting, it seems to me that truecrypt is more feasible |
| 22:54.25 | Pali | according to http://omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project there is linux tool generate_MLO which is MShield signing tool |
| 22:54.37 | Estel_ | such partition mounted at boot time ensures that all your private things are saved there. If you have lock code, no one can ever bypass it without rebooting device... |
| 22:54.44 | Estel_ | which always unmount said partition |
| 22:54.49 | freemangordon | Pali: sure, you just need the keys :D |
| 22:54.55 | LinuxCode | Estel_, I know |
| 22:55.00 | Estel_ | = no one, thief or police, will access your photos, addressbook, mails etc |
| 22:55.04 | LinuxCode | Estel_, Im just exploring options atm |
| 22:55.08 | Estel_ | I see |
| 22:55.24 | Estel_ | well, just tiving advice, as I was through all this before |
| 22:55.30 | Estel_ | checking every encryption option ;) |
| 22:55.30 | LinuxCode | I must admit though, I kind of like the patch I saw, where one has to enter the /home key at boot |
| 22:55.48 | Estel_ | sure, but it hurts performance and battery life for whole device |
| 22:55.51 | LinuxCode | because that would confuse anyone who is not a linux user |
| 22:55.52 | Estel_ | confidential data or not |
| 22:56.10 | LinuxCode | Estel_, well, why would truevrypt have better performance ? |
| 22:56.58 | Estel_ | because, when you encrypt whole /dev/mmcblk0p2 , you also do so for many programs |
| 22:57.04 | Estel_ | that don't need it's data encrypted |
| 22:57.10 | LinuxCode | ohh I wouldnt do that |
| 22:57.19 | Estel_ | every second in your device runtime = accessing some encrypted thing |
| 22:57.22 | LinuxCode | I already resized the partitions |
| 22:57.22 | Estel_ | well |
| 22:57.28 | Estel_ | /home/user/.config |
| 22:57.29 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 22:57.37 | Pali | freemangordon, btw, we have in maemo kernel mshield RNG driver |
| 22:57.38 | LinuxCode | because I previously hit the 2GB max limit |
| 22:57.42 | Estel_ | so why to encrypt home at all? |
| 22:57.44 | Pali | which is not in upstream kernel |
| 22:58.01 | Pali | RNG = random number generator |
| 22:58.08 | Estel_ | just prepare separate encrypted partition and throw there everything that need to be encrypted, symlinking it |
| 22:58.20 | Estel_ | so, for example, mailbox settings or addressbook |
| 22:58.20 | LinuxCode | Estel_, I will do that with dm-crypt |
| 22:58.23 | jacekowski | hardware AES is still pretty slow |
| 22:58.25 | LinuxCode | I think |
| 22:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | LinuxCode: we have an expired signing key on Nokia SSU, we have hashsum errors on maemo (probably introduced by autobuilder, ask merlin1991 and thedead1440 and brkn about it) |
| 22:58.32 | freemangordon | Pali: http://beagleboard.googlecode.com/files/signGP.c, this is for BB GP aiui |
| 22:58.32 | Estel_ | well, why not |
| 22:58.40 | jacekowski | if i remember numbers correctly it's somewhere aroudn 15M/s |
| 22:58.43 | jacekowski | for hardware |
| 22:58.47 | LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer05, k |
| 22:58.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | LinuxCode: and we have a repo.m.o that's slow like molasses |
| 22:59.04 | Estel_ | LinuxCode, using truecrypt, I have some nice gui window loaded just after hildon-desktop, that ask for password and/or keys |
| 22:59.11 | freemangordon | Pali: scratch that, it does nothing |
| 22:59.13 | LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer05, yeah, but I am wondering if partially people are double hammering the server , because of it |
| 22:59.26 | LinuxCode | HAM downloads twice the same package, then asks if ya want to give up |
| 22:59.30 | Estel_ | if not provided, addressbook is empty as in fresh device, no mail accounts, etc |
| 22:59.37 | Estel_ | yet everything *seems* to work |
| 22:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | LinuxCode: the mirrors mostly have the hashsum problem as well, afaik. One has not as it didn't pick up on the faulty original rmo (aiui) |
| 22:59.56 | LinuxCode | Estel_, I saw a set up like that yes, just over-mount /home/opt or whatever |
| 22:59.57 | teotwaki__ | "ask for password and/or keys" |
| 23:00.05 | teotwaki__ | So, where do you get the keys from? A USB fob? |
| 23:00.10 | LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer05, I see |
| 23:00.17 | Pali | freemangordon, I know what signGP.c doing |
| 23:00.17 | Estel_ | teotwaki, keys can be files too |
| 23:00.26 | Estel_ | you have whole N900 of file candidates :) |
| 23:00.35 | Estel_ | mixing it with passwords is quite nice |
| 23:00.45 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: what's the point of having the keys on the device, if it's just to query for the password? |
| 23:00.52 | Estel_ | it may be something from mydocs, or from opt, pr from anywhere |
| 23:01.19 | teotwaki__ | Either way, you can't revoke the certificate remotely, you can't do anything that would be a benefit when using keys. |
| 23:01.21 | Estel_ | because possible passwords * all files on device * all combination of those files is more than just password? |
| 23:01.35 | LinuxCode | merlin1991, ping |
| 23:01.38 | teotwaki__ | you're just adding 1 bit of entropy |
| 23:01.39 | Estel_ | certificate? I'm not sure if we're talking about same thing |
| 23:01.48 | Estel_ | no, certainly not |
| 23:02.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: same screwed thinking that makes devels store pop3 passwords in obfuscated form in a config file |
| 23:02.08 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~fiq@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:02.20 | Estel_ | I'm talking about truecrypt encrypted partition, which uses password and first 1MB of data from every key file (no limit of ammount of key files) |
| 23:02.22 | Estel_ | to encrypt |
| 23:02.25 | Estel_ | and then decrypt |
| 23:02.48 | teotwaki__ | oh fucking hell, stop drinking the truecrypt koolaid. |
| 23:02.57 | Estel_ | not to mention random pool which is irrelevant, btw |
| 23:02.59 | Estel_ | hm? |
| 23:03.12 | Estel_ | technical arguments against it or it doesn't happened :P |
| 23:03.29 | teotwaki__ | if you store the keyfiles on the same device, there is no added security. |
| 23:03.36 | teotwaki__ | There is an added security bias, but no added security. |
| 23:03.52 | Estel_ | seriously? so how anyone is supposed to know which files to use even with known password? |
| 23:03.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: futile |
| 23:04.04 | Estel_ | well, I'm asking about technical answer |
| 23:04.13 | Estel_ | if my thinking is wrong, I'll gladly confirm it |
| 23:04.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe by using file `find /` ? |
| 23:04.24 | Estel_ | and? |
| 23:04.26 | teotwaki__ | Because if truecrypt can use the files, it means it has to validate those files as valid input, which means it's either just a hash (which is a terrible way to decrypt files), or the files can be found through find -exec. |
| 23:04.37 | Estel_ | wrong. |
| 23:04.41 | teotwaki__ | right. |
| 23:04.41 | Estel_ | it doesnt validate them |
| 23:04.48 | Estel_ | it uses everything you throw at it |
| 23:04.50 | teotwaki__ | So it's just a hash of the first 1MB. |
| 23:04.58 | Estel_ | and it doewsn't event know if partition is really encrypted |
| 23:05.06 | Estel_ | until you feed it with correct password and keyfiles |
| 23:05.08 | teotwaki__ | which is about as useful as a plaintext string written down in /etc. |
| 23:05.14 | Estel_ | nope. |
| 23:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:05.47 | Estel_ | first of all, truecrypt have no idea if partition is encrypted or just random |
| 23:05.57 | Estel_ | second, it have no idea about files you're throwing at it |
| 23:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the shellscript to "crack" this "encryption level" is about one line, and takes about 20 min runtime on N900 |
| 23:06.23 | Estel_ | hash or not, one have to physically test mixing every keyfile with password, during bruteforcing |
| 23:06.34 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, suuure, elaborate more |
| 23:06.35 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: but you agree the device is stolen |
| 23:06.40 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: and the files are on the device |
| 23:06.41 | Estel_ | teotwaki, sure |
| 23:06.43 | Estel_ | yep. |
| 23:06.46 | teotwaki__ | so bruteforce time has little impact |
| 23:06.53 | teotwaki__ | yet all the info needed is still on the device |
| 23:06.59 | teotwaki__ | it's just a matter of time, correct? |
| 23:07.07 | Estel_ | it have, when it's more than lifetime of sun ;) |
| 23:07.08 | teotwaki__ | And you can eliminate any file under 1MB |
| 23:07.13 | Estel_ | nope |
| 23:07.19 | Estel_ | files underr 1MB can be used too |
| 23:07.27 | Estel_ | it's just that it parses up to 1MB of file |
| 23:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there are 10000 files to test, this is equivalent to 2 more chars in your password |
| 23:07.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | roughly |
| 23:07.40 | Estel_ | and treat is as part of random data input due encryption, methinks |
| 23:07.51 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, wrong as usual |
| 23:07.53 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: it's just pseudo entropy. |
| 23:08.01 | Estel_ | you don't know if you need 2 files, one, or 10 |
| 23:08.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | as *your* usual? |
| 23:08.08 | Estel_ | + anu combination |
| 23:08.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I agree |
| 23:08.14 | Estel_ | s/anu/any/ |
| 23:08.28 | Estel_ | you don't even know *if* there is key file at all |
| 23:08.34 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: and do you really think that people will click on 10 or 20 files, in the right order, everytime they restart their phone? |
| 23:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | insulting as usual, and clueless as estel usually is |
| 23:08.48 | teotwaki__ | Oh no, that's right, they'll do it once, forget the combination, and then come cry here on how to reset it. |
| 23:08.53 | Estel_ | teotwaki, I restart it ~once per month, so yes |
| 23:08.58 | Estel_ | :P |
| 23:09.10 | Estel_ | since I uploaded truecrypt to devel, no one ever did that |
| 23:09.21 | LinuxCode | wth |
| 23:09.25 | FIQ | truecrypt for maemo? |
| 23:09.28 | Estel_ | and it have some big pool of users, even if 1/10of downloader use it :P |
| 23:09.29 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@89.106.197.84) |
| 23:09.32 | FIQ | how exactly does that work |
| 23:09.35 | LinuxCode | there is a password and username for ddownloads.maemo.nokia.com lol ?!?! |
| 23:09.35 | Estel_ | FIQ, since ages? |
| 23:09.43 | LinuxCode | or was |
| 23:09.50 | teotwaki__ | or maybe, they will not forget it, but because their phone is always on 24/7, for 8 months at once (ZOMG uptime of 183 days!), you just need to press the unlock button, and have access to the... that's right, the decrypted partition. |
| 23:09.53 | Estel_ | FIQ, gimme a second |
| 23:10.05 | Estel_ | teotwaki, nope. |
| 23:10.11 | Estel_ | if phone is stolen or seized |
| 23:10.23 | Estel_ | one need to reboot it at least once to get pass lock code |
| 23:10.27 | Estel_ | either reflash or easy crack |
| 23:10.32 | LinuxCode | Estel_, why dont you give FIQ a how to |
| 23:10.33 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: you do realise I've deployed security systems for banks and governments, right? |
| 23:10.35 | Estel_ | anyway, part get unmounted |
| 23:10.51 | LinuxCode | there are a few |
| 23:10.52 | FIQ | a how to for truecrypt? I don't feel I need it |
| 23:11.02 | LinuxCode | FIQ, k |
| 23:11.04 | FIQ | Just curious how it worked for maemo |
| 23:11.09 | Estel_ | FIQ, I'll link you to thread about truecrypt on maemo |
| 23:11.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: no he doesn't realize |
| 23:11.12 | teotwaki__ | just put the files on a usb fob, use the host mode to retrieve the files during boot, and don't keep the fob and the phone together. Done. |
| 23:11.13 | Estel_ | just a minute |
| 23:11.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: futile |
| 23:11.16 | FIQ | Estel_: sure |
| 23:11.24 | Estel_ | teotwaki, sure, that's and option |
| 23:11.41 | Estel_ | but, frankly, it all depends on what you're securing |
| 23:11.57 | Estel_ | I haven't said that it is feasible to encrypt boot-time mounted partition wit keys |
| 23:11.58 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: it's the only option, yours doesn't even pass FIPS |
| 23:12.10 | Estel_ | 99% of times, password is enough |
| 23:12.23 | teotwaki__ | and that 1% of the time |
| 23:12.25 | Estel_ | for more touchy data, use encrypted partition that is mounted only when you need it |
| 23:12.35 | Estel_ | or hidden partition inside outer one |
| 23:12.42 | teotwaki__ | they'll use a $2 pair of scissors and make you unlock the focking phone. |
| 23:12.50 | teotwaki__ | s/foc/fuc/ |
| 23:13.01 | Estel_ | well, that's outside of scope and can be used against any security anywhere |
| 23:13.05 | Estel_ | on usb stick too |
| 23:13.21 | FIQ | teotwaki__: now you remind me of a certain xkcd |
| 23:13.26 | Estel_ | yea |
| 23:13.29 | Estel_ | it's popular one |
| 23:13.37 | teotwaki__ | FIQ: I had that xkcd happen to me, or rather, a project I worked on. |
| 23:13.52 | Estel_ | teotwaki, frankly, my setup is low-security partition mount at boot time for photos, addresbook etc |
| 23:14.05 | FIQ | http://xkcd.com/538/ found it |
| 23:14.06 | Estel_ | so random thief/finder won't access my photo |
| 23:14.17 | Estel_ | or addressbook or configs |
| 23:14.18 | teotwaki__ | We deployed a Chip&Pin system for a bank in the UK. The bank gave its customers a small device they could slide their card into, type their PIN, and get either an OTP to login to the website, or a CR to authorise transactions. |
| 23:14.18 | Estel_ | or whatever |
| 23:14.31 | teotwaki__ | A couple months after it was deployed |
| 23:14.55 | teotwaki__ | a couple of french dudes got tortured inside their apartment, after two days of torture, both of them died. |
| 23:15.04 | Estel_ | + I use 2nd partition *not*mounted at boot time, that I keep empty just in case i ever need to store something secure |
| 23:15.15 | Estel_ | for this purpose, I have script to encrypt swap too |
| 23:15.21 | teotwaki__ | The thieves used the bank's device to validate whether the kids were telling them the right PIN. |
| 23:15.26 | Estel_ | of course tracker etc keeps away from both partitions |
| 23:15.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought for random finder/thief we got device lock code |
| 23:15.39 | Estel_ | despite what you're trying to say, I see this layout both practical and feasible ;) |
| 23:15.52 | LinuxCode | teotwaki__, lol, in the UK ? |
| 23:15.56 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, bullshit, as easy reflash will reveal mydocs |
| 23:15.56 | LinuxCode | I have one fo those |
| 23:15.56 | teotwaki__ | LinuxCode: aye |
| 23:15.58 | Estel_ | with photos |
| 23:15.59 | Estel_ | etc |
| 23:16.09 | LinuxCode | you would just give people the pin then call the bank and police after |
| 23:16.22 | LinuxCode | who cares about the money |
| 23:16.22 | teotwaki__ | LinuxCode: not if you're dead when they leave. |
| 23:16.37 | Estel_ | teotwaki, but it isn't any argument against security |
| 23:16.38 | LinuxCode | was that in the news ? |
| 23:16.43 | teotwaki__ | yeah, big story |
| 23:16.44 | teotwaki__ | hang on |
| 23:16.47 | Estel_ | it doesn't have anything to do for passwords |
| 23:16.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: sure? |
| 23:17.12 | LinuxCode | teotwaki__, I hope this wont be a story in the Sun or Daily Mail |
| 23:17.13 | Estel_ | and you still haven't told me why storing keys on device is no better than key-less setup, security wise |
| 23:17.23 | Estel_ | against bruteforce crack |
| 23:17.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | thinks Estel_'s info is obsolete since PR1.3 |
| 23:17.33 | Estel_ | and I don't mean bruteforce as in scizzors :P |
| 23:17.42 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, hm? |
| 23:17.45 | teotwaki__ | LinuxCode: it was in 2008 |
| 23:17.59 | Estel_ | I'm sure that reflashing allows me to boot device without lock code question |
| 23:18.03 | Estel_ | even if lock code is set |
| 23:18.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably could reflash a PR1.2 image though |
| 23:18.14 | LinuxCode | teotwaki__, k gfound it |
| 23:18.14 | Estel_ | it isn't changed, but not asked |
| 23:18.18 | LinuxCode | I must have missed that |
| 23:18.22 | Estel_ | unless you enable it again |
| 23:18.31 | teotwaki__ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Cross_double_murder |
| 23:18.43 | LinuxCode | teotwaki__, it was several hours not days |
| 23:18.45 | FIQ | isn't there a master lock code? |
| 23:18.49 | teotwaki__ | LinuxCode: my bad |
| 23:18.52 | LinuxCode | but yeh, then you just give them your pin |
| 23:18.53 | FIQ | in case lock code is forgotten |
| 23:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: nope |
| 23:19.08 | FIQ | which basically renders lock code useless if you know the algoritm |
| 23:19.08 | LinuxCode | call the police call bank, you will get the mney back |
| 23:19.09 | FIQ | oh okay |
| 23:19.14 | Estel_ | FIQ, during device reflash |
| 23:19.19 | Estel_ | asking for lock code is removed |
| 23:19.25 | LinuxCode | as you werent reckless... |
| 23:19.28 | Estel_ | so you can boot device and access mydocs etc freely |
| 23:19.31 | LinuxCode | anyway |
| 23:19.32 | Estel_ | on pr1.3 too |
| 23:19.52 | FIQ | then what's the point? |
| 23:20.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: and iirc in PR1.3 you need to flash eMMC too, to reset / disable the lockcode |
| 23:20.07 | FIQ | that being said |
| 23:20.08 | Estel_ | also, after that, you may use either john to crack lock code in 3 seconds, or qwerty's file to reset it |
| 23:20.17 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, wrong |
| 23:20.20 | Estel_ | did it zillion of times |
| 23:20.27 | FIQ | nothing is impossible, you can just make stuff harder for evil people |
| 23:20.29 | Estel_ | no need to flash emmc ever, to achieve anything |
| 23:20.35 | teotwaki__ | LinuxCode: actually, the reason why banks are pushing for Chip&Pin is because it moves all liability to the customer. |
| 23:20.39 | FIQ | but not impossible |
| 23:20.45 | Estel_ | no need to flash emmc ever, to achieve anything |
| 23:20.47 | FIQ | that's how I see on things anyway |
| 23:20.52 | LinuxCode | teotwaki__, of course, but that has already been proven as ineffective |
| 23:20.55 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: ok |
| 23:20.58 | LinuxCode | by security researchers |
| 23:21.00 | Estel_ | that's why I was just to said that I don't held bank and goverment security in high regard |
| 23:21.03 | teotwaki__ | LinuxCode: look at the booklet/contract you got when you got your chip&pin card, it says that if you disclose your PIN, you are not legible for reimbursement. |
| 23:21.06 | Estel_ | when you told me about working on it |
| 23:21.11 | Estel_ | just didn't wanted to be inpolite |
| 23:21.12 | LinuxCode | in Africa they use biometrics |
| 23:21.18 | teotwaki__ | bwhahahahaha |
| 23:21.20 | teotwaki__ | biometrics |
| 23:21.27 | LinuxCode | better than chip and pin |
| 23:21.33 | teotwaki__ | no, definitely not. |
| 23:21.37 | LinuxCode | eye vein scan |
| 23:21.37 | Estel_ | +1 |
| 23:21.46 | teotwaki__ | biometrics is a hollywood gimmick. |
| 23:21.47 | Estel_ | too much s-fi |
| 23:21.48 | LinuxCode | or something |
| 23:21.49 | FIQ | it isn't better |
| 23:22.01 | LinuxCode | better than chip and pin |
| 23:22.01 | FIQ | drug the user down, force him to authencate |
| 23:22.04 | teotwaki__ | you don't use public information to authenticate a person |
| 23:22.12 | FIQ | problem solved |
| 23:22.18 | Estel_ | it reminds me or idiotic programs for laptops |
| 23:22.23 | FIQ | *authenticate |
| 23:22.23 | teotwaki__ | FIQ: not even that, fingerprints can be recovered at the mark's building, car, office, bus. |
| 23:22.27 | Estel_ | that use face image |
| 23:22.29 | Estel_ | to login |
| 23:22.32 | Estel_ | or users photo |
| 23:22.33 | Estel_ | :P |
| 23:22.34 | FIQ | teotwaki__: that too :P |
| 23:22.52 | Estel_ | well, best security is multi-layered one |
| 23:22.54 | FIQ | though it looks cool! |
| 23:22.55 | teotwaki__ | face image or retinal scan can be obtained with $2000 worth of equipment from 200m distance. |
| 23:23.07 | Estel_ | if attacker doesn't know number of layers required, it's even bette |
| 23:23.08 | Estel_ | r |
| 23:23.23 | teotwaki__ | Chip&Pin is infinitely better than biometrics |
| 23:23.23 | FIQ | (biometric auth that is) |
| 23:23.35 | teotwaki__ | it has its faults, but still |
| 23:23.45 | Estel_ | thats why i still think that keyfiles the way truecrypt uses them is still better than nothing, and it certainly complicates things |
| 23:23.59 | Estel_ | teotwaki, now interesting thing |
| 23:24.02 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: just drop it. |
| 23:24.14 | Estel_ | truecrypt allow you to have set of password and keyfiles for partition revealing data |
| 23:24.20 | Estel_ | and other set for *same partition* |
| 23:24.24 | Estel_ | revealing other data |
| 23:24.32 | Estel_ | without limit of number of such layers |
| 23:24.45 | teotwaki__ | so just steganography |
| 23:24.46 | Estel_ | no technical possibility to determine if there are more layers inside |
| 23:24.51 | Estel_ | nope |
| 23:24.56 | Estel_ | you may reveal 10layers |
| 23:25.00 | Estel_ | due to exortion |
| 23:25.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | complicates things, yes, a lot! ... for the user |
| 23:25.11 | FIQ | sounds like it would allow multiple partitions on one place which could have other uses |
| 23:25.11 | Estel_ | and no one will be ever sure if there is no 11 one |
| 23:25.26 | teotwaki__ | it is steganography... you hide indistinguishable information in meaningful information |
| 23:25.29 | Estel_ | no way to determine if empty space is just encrypted empty space or some data in another layer |
| 23:25.36 | Estel_ | not exactly |
| 23:25.43 | teotwaki__ | yes, exactly. |
| 23:25.50 | Estel_ | not even truexcrypt knows if partition contain it |
| 23:26.08 | Estel_ | nope, as in steganography it is still obtainable |
| 23:26.15 | teotwaki__ | ... |
| 23:26.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | that multilayer stuff to create plausible deniability causes even more torture |
| 23:26.29 | Estel_ | if you forget how many layers you have or password/keyfiles for it, no fuckin way to even determine it was even there |
| 23:26.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | since they never will stop until you die |
| 23:26.33 | Estel_ | aka plausible deniability |
| 23:26.43 | teotwaki__ | "I heard the definition of steganography 10 years ago on hackersnews, so now I know that all steganography is based on hiding text in pictures" |
| 23:26.52 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, at this point you will not know yourself how many layers you had |
| 23:27.00 | Estel_ | so they still won't get what they want |
| 23:27.09 | Estel_ | as you're dead anyway, no loss for you |
| 23:27.24 | teotwaki__ | there's no secret big enough to die for |
| 23:27.26 | Estel_ | teotwaki, please, read what plausible deniability is |
| 23:27.33 | *** mode/#maemo [+q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-] by ChanServ |
| 23:27.36 | teotwaki__ | fuck off you twat |
| 23:27.38 | FIQ | "you're dead, no loss for you" |
| 23:27.42 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~Psi@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 23:27.44 | FIQ | sounds positive eh |
| 23:27.49 | FIQ | or not |
| 23:28.14 | FIQ | *Pk |
| 23:28.36 | teotwaki__ | I try to have an educated discussion with you, Estel_, and this is how you treat people? By patronising them on things they probably worked on during their masters? |
| 23:28.52 | *** mode/#maemo [-q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-] by ChanServ |
| 23:29.02 | Estel_ | teotwaki, pathetic way to lose discussion by use chanop "quiet" :/ I'm dissapointed in you |
| 23:29.11 | FIQ | that's an interesting cloak |
| 23:29.24 | Estel_ | bye, will return when you won't be drunk... |
| 23:29.29 | teotwaki__ | drunk/ |
| 23:29.32 | teotwaki__ | right. |
| 23:29.52 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (~ssvb@212.16.98.80) |
| 23:29.59 | *** join/#maemo gn00b (~gn00b@174-26-35-228.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 23:30.01 | teotwaki__ | because anyone who doesn't agree with you is a drunk. |
| 23:30.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: futile, toldya |
| 23:30.25 | teotwaki__ | indeed |
| 23:30.43 | teotwaki__ | "No, but you have to understand that abusing your operator powers by silencing people who disagree with you is wrong." |
| 23:30.55 | FIQ | estel doesn't sound like a contributor but that might just be me |
| 23:31.01 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc3-basf10-2-0-cust617.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 23:31.09 | Estel_ | well, if you don't want to discuss ig with me, just stop. silencing or kickung via chanop is pathetic kindergarden |
| 23:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: I actually wondered where's that cloak from |
| 23:31.28 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: and patronising people and acting like a dick isn't? |
| 23:31.29 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: from council |
| 23:31.37 | FIQ | according to an old meeting |
| 23:31.44 | FIQ | old council members got that cloak |
| 23:31.47 | Estel_ | btw, plausible deniability is something different from steganography, and you could educate yourself, before attacking others. Some concepts shared, some different. |
| 23:31.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: nope, council cloak is council |
| 23:31.53 | teotwaki__ | FIQ: i'd rather he has the contributor cloak than the council one which he abused for ages. |
| 23:31.54 | FIQ | when they left |
| 23:32.04 | Estel_ | teotwaki, patronizing. said guy who stopped civilized discussion by logging to chanop? |
| 23:32.08 | Estel_ | pathetic |
| 23:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 23:32.11 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: yes but not when they left |
| 23:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see |
| 23:32.21 | Estel_ | I'm out, go and try "educated discussion" in real life |
| 23:32.34 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: when did I say plausible deniability was the same as steganography, exactly? |
| 23:32.36 | Estel_ | by jumping with punches and silencing others that doesn't share your point of view. |
| 23:32.48 | teotwaki__ | I silenced you because you were a dick. |
| 23:32.52 | Estel_ | we'll see where it leads you |
| 23:32.53 | Estel_ | sure |
| 23:33.03 | Estel_ | so enjoy yuor extended e-penis now, bye. |
| 23:33.16 | FIQ | bye Estel_ |
| 23:33.45 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: my e-penis has been big and hard for ages, no need for you to increase its size, but thanks for lowering yourself to viagra. |
| 23:34.21 | teotwaki__ | That feels better :) |
| 23:34.32 | *** join/#maemo joshgillies (~josh@124-168-228-250.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:34.52 | teotwaki__ | sorry for flaming and trolling, by the way. I'm done. |
| 23:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | main problem are guys who *know* they're right, know it so certainly that they never even smell when somebody maybe has yet a better idea about that particular topic |
| 23:36.30 | LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer05, I was like that when I was 16 |
| 23:36.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | often leads to patronizing |
| 23:36.44 | LinuxCode | with my first proper g/f, she put me right, quickly |
| 23:36.50 | LinuxCode | hehe |
| 23:37.02 | LinuxCode | then you feel dumb, and stop doing that |
| 23:37.08 | kerio | i bet she does, i bet she does |
| 23:37.10 | LinuxCode | because you realise you were a twat |
| 23:37.13 | kerio | nudge nudge saynomore |
| 23:37.19 | teotwaki__ | You had your first proper girlfriend at age 16? |
| 23:37.24 | LinuxCode | kerio, I am 34 now |
| 23:37.27 | teotwaki__ | Dude, hand in your geek card. |
| 23:37.51 | kerio | hah |
| 23:37.56 | LinuxCode | teotwaki__, lol, when I say proper, I mean longer than 1 year |
| 23:38.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | LinuxCode: what if everybody teling you that you're twat but you just don't listen? |
| 23:38.13 | LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer05, then it makes you look stupid |
| 23:38.17 | teotwaki__ | You had a relationship that lasted over a year? |
| 23:38.19 | LinuxCode | very stupid indeed |
| 23:38.21 | kerio | LinuxCode: we heard the first time, hand in your geek card |
| 23:38.47 | teotwaki__ | stop lying! We all know humans who date for over a year don't know how to operate IRC, just Facebook. |
| 23:38.59 | kerio | and your n900 priviledges are revoked, go buy an iphone |
| 23:39.13 | LinuxCode | iphone...... |
| 23:39.15 | FIQ | hahah |
| 23:39.15 | teotwaki__ | Or an S3, if you're feeling adventurous. |
| 23:39.17 | kerio | teotwaki__: and whatsapp! |
| 23:39.24 | LinuxCode | throws up a little |
| 23:39.36 | FIQ | S3 isn't that bad |
| 23:39.52 | kerio | teotwaki__: isn't the nexus4 about the same, but cheaper? |
| 23:39.52 | teotwaki__ | kerio: actually, he's 34, so he probably has a decent job now... |
| 23:40.00 | teotwaki__ | kerio: yeah, but you can't get one xD |
| 23:40.01 | LinuxCode | so..... now you all made fun of me.... how do I tell apt not to bitch about this expired key crap |
| 23:40.18 | kerio | apt won't bitch about the expired key |
| 23:40.35 | LinuxCode | it bitches about hash sums, and mentions the expired key |
| 23:40.43 | kerio | you'll sometimes get a "install these packages without verification?" |
| 23:40.53 | kerio | hash sum mismatch is a critical error |
| 23:41.41 | LinuxCode | kerio, ok, so is this something local I can fix |
| 23:41.50 | kerio | 'this glass is empty, how do i drink water from it anyway?' |
| 23:41.51 | LinuxCode | it is only with extras-devel |
| 23:41.58 | kerio | LinuxCode: use a mirror |
| 23:42.02 | teotwaki__ | best comment on slashdot this week, a guy trying to explain Steve Jobs is dead: http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3429511&cid=42774203 |
| 23:42.08 | kerio | for instance, extras-devel-light |
| 23:42.17 | teotwaki__ | "Steve is in the iCloud now. Someone tried turning him off and then back on again. In an appeal to hipsters, he's gone underground to sell more macs. He is permanently 404. There is no way he could have had anything to say about this. There is no app for that. Get it?" |
| 23:42.30 | kerio | deb http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/ fremantle free non-free |
| 23:42.45 | LinuxCode | k |
| 23:42.47 | LinuxCode | thank you |
| 23:43.07 | kerio | it's a really nice mirror, supports pdiffs, only lists the latest versions, and doesn't afraid of anything |
| 23:43.26 | teotwaki__ | grammar error |
| 23:43.27 | LinuxCode | so is this a direct copy of extra-devel, but just works ? |
| 23:43.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | just noticed that you probably can detect such an individual (twat, partonizing, overly self esteem type) by *none* of their statements about factoids they think to know about ever gets qualified by them adding link a sounrce of info, or by a "probably", "iirc" or similar indication that they might be wrong on this one |
| 23:43.51 | FIQ | pdiff=? |
| 23:44.12 | kerio | FIQ: incremental changes in Packages |
| 23:44.30 | FIQ | hmmmm |
| 23:44.36 | kerio | so you don't end up downloading the whole 9mb on each update |
| 23:44.47 | FIQ | yeah I understand, but... |
| 23:45.00 | teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer05: don't know if that one is for me as well, but I've learned a long time ago, especially when talking about bugs or deliveries, to speak in the conditional tense, and say "we" instead of "I". |
| 23:45.06 | FIQ | doesn't that mean it has to keep a diff of every single version? |
| 23:45.17 | kerio | FIQ: the repository does |
| 23:45.22 | FIQ | yeah |
| 23:45.22 | kerio | but no |
| 23:45.23 | FIQ | repo |
| 23:45.35 | teotwaki__ | when the CRM dude asks an update: "We have not been able to reproduce this problem, however, it would appear to be related to..." |
| 23:45.38 | kerio | just from a version to the next |
| 23:46.04 | FIQ | and if I have a really old version? |
| 23:46.15 | teotwaki__ | or for deliveries, "As planned, we should be able to provide you with..." |
| 23:46.32 | kerio | FIQ: then apt will download the whole file |
| 23:46.39 | FIQ | makes sense |
| 23:46.45 | kerio | and from then on, partials :) |
| 23:46.58 | teotwaki__ | or simply when they're being idiots, "Being relatively swamped with work, I shall attempt to provide you with an answer within the new 24 hours." |
| 23:47.01 | FIQ | so it basically use pdiff if the version I had in question was archived |
| 23:47.14 | FIQ | and a diff can be made of it |
| 23:47.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: wasn't specifically for you |
| 23:47.28 | teotwaki__ | which can be explained, later on, as "I only promised to try and get back to you within the next 3 business days." |
| 23:47.48 | teotwaki__ | 24 hours, 3 business days, getit? :P |
| 23:48.05 | teotwaki__ | s/new/next/ |
| 23:48.07 | kerio | FIQ: much easier, it stores the diffs |
| 23:48.08 | Estel_ | FIQ, despite you don't see me as contributor, I've promised you a link to truecrypt on Maemo: |
| 23:48.09 | Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81435 |
| 23:48.17 | kerio | repos are static, in nature |
| 23:48.29 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, what was syntax for factoids only applicable to #maemo? |
| 23:48.34 | kerio | whenever the maintainer changes something, files are created/added |
| 23:48.39 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel_ (~IceChat9@c-24-98-176-94.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.47 | FIQ | ty |
| 23:49.01 | Estel_ | I wouldn't want every infobot user tog et redirected to tmo thread when asking about truecrypt, ya know |
| 23:49.20 | teotwaki__ | well |
| 23:49.23 | teotwaki__ | this should answer your question |
| 23:49.25 | teotwaki__ | ~french |
| 23:49.25 | infobot | Vous pouvez obtenir de l'aide sur Debian sur le canal #debian-fr - For help in french, please join #debian-fr |
| 23:49.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | <#channel> factoid-key |
| 23:49.49 | FIQ | ohhh so you're given a contributor cloak when you release a devel package? interesting |
| 23:50.02 | teotwaki__ | FIQ: no, you're given a cloak when you ask for it |
| 23:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, yes |
| 23:50.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically |
| 23:50.25 | FIQ | teotwaki__: I see |
| 23:50.30 | teotwaki__ | FIQ: you want one? |
| 23:50.47 | FIQ | I guess you have to have some kind of reason though |
| 23:50.49 | kerio | felt special :( |
| 23:51.18 | Estel_ | ~#maemo truecrypt is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81435 |
| 23:51.18 | infobot | okay, Estel_ |
| 23:51.18 | FIQ | teotwaki__: well I don't think I've done significant contributions to the community besides minor help in tmo |
| 23:51.23 | Estel_ | ~truecrypt |
| 23:51.23 | infobot | methinks truecrypt is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81435 |
| 23:51.47 | Estel_ | well, seriously, I never asked for contributor cloak |
| 23:51.54 | Estel_ | it isn't provided when you release a package |
| 23:52.23 | Estel_ | I have no idea who gave it to me and when, and I don't care either - still, it's nice to know that someone respect my small and humble contributions |
| 23:52.33 | FIQ | speaking of contributions |
| 23:53.03 | FIQ | should try and get an overview of maemo stuff that could benefit from being localized |
| 23:53.49 | FIQ | "maemo stuff" aka things provided by CSSU |
| 23:54.08 | Pali | freemangordon, that special nolo is completly different as nolo in PR.1.3 FW |
| 23:54.22 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:54.22 | FIQ | and untranslated things in core maemo (mostly terminal applications) |
| 23:54.28 | Pali | I have diff between two objdump |
| 23:54.30 | Estel_ | and teotwaki, frankly, I shouldn't ever bother talking to you, but... You know, I've fought for freedom of my country at not-so-long-ago times, when you were put in prison for it. I'm really not one, who will get "terrorized" by some random, pathetic dude, talking about dicks and just happening to have chanop here. I thought you were partner for educated discussion, when you pinged me about my discussion with someone else, re encryption. |
| 23:54.30 | Estel_ | I was wrong, it seems, as you turned out to be regular dickhead |
| 23:54.30 | Skry | teotwaki__: I want one if it's that easy |
| 23:54.38 | Estel_ | in real world, we call those people bandits |
| 23:55.21 | teotwaki__ | I went to prison? That's news to me. |
| 23:55.23 | Estel_ | here, call yourself whatever you want, and still pretend that you're better due to your master degree or whatever, even if yo7're just talking BS and ending discussion in disgracing way of logging to chanop operator status |
| 23:55.36 | Estel_ | well, you may re read it without being drunk. |
| 23:55.37 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.40 | Estel_ | or not |
| 23:55.49 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.49 | kerio | braces |
| 23:56.03 | kerio | unbraces |
| 23:56.07 | Estel_ | in fact, it's quite end of topic for me |
| 23:56.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | then shut up NOW |
| 23:56.38 | Estel_ | shrugs |
| 23:57.05 | teotwaki__ | Estel_: that's nice. Have a great evening. |
| 23:57.28 | teotwaki__ | hmm |
| 23:57.37 | teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer05: do you remember who the Group Contact is for Maemo? |
| 23:57.39 | Estel_ | same to you :) everyone loves happy endings. |
| 23:57.40 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: just wondering, were red pill settings window available in non-cssu maemo? |
| 23:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | X-Fade: |
| 23:58.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: if you enable it |
| 23:58.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~red-pill |
| 23:58.11 | infobot | rumour has it, redpill is http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode |
| 23:58.16 | teotwaki__ | well, apparently he is the person who assigns cloaks. |
| 23:58.17 | kerio | FIQ: in the latest couple of versions you can only enable it by editing the config file |
| 23:58.27 | teotwaki__ | But I thought X-Fade completely stopped services for #maemo? |
| 23:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki__: yes, and last such session been on a request by me |
| 23:58.44 | FIQ | kerio: yea but I wondered if settings was added by cssu |
| 23:58.45 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, when will be autobuilder working? |
| 23:58.52 | FIQ | as it's not localized at all |
| 23:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | when X-Fade fixed it, Pali |
| 23:59.08 | FIQ | unlike *everything else* in non-cssu maemo UI |
| 23:59.29 | kerio | FIQ: it wasn't added by cssu afaik |
| 23:59.36 | FIQ | ok |
| 23:59.37 | kerio | it's just... hidden |
| 23:59.44 | FIQ | yeah |
| 23:59.52 | FIQ | that might explain it not being localized |