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| 06:44.47 | shawnjefferson | ~mirrors |
| 06:44.47 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
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| 08:16.55 | Estel_ | kerio, who told ya to that I'm using kp51? |
| 08:17.14 | kerio | idk, you? |
| 08:17.31 | Estel_ | my results about 1350 mA charging is on kp52, I just talked about downgrading to cullprint possible reason |
| 08:17.45 | kerio | i see |
| 08:17.47 | Estel_ | as I moved to new motherboard and new kp at the same time |
| 08:18.30 | Estel_ | WizardNumberNext, I know about charging chip hardcoded values, probably better than you :P still, I'm experiencing 1350 mA charging here - measured it with external tools, too - and I have NFC why |
| 08:21.21 | kerio | hw problem? |
| 08:21.41 | Estel_ | as for all this sounds non-sense - I understand that you like vinyls more, and respect that. Furthermore, I like vinyls too, for collectors value and nice nostalgia aspect of warm sound |
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| 08:22.11 | Estel_ | still, I won't belive any of this "I can hear difference above 20khz" until you participate in proper blind tests |
| 08:22.52 | Estel_ | they have done zillions of it, busting things like this "special" type of cd-r audiophile audio (the ones that looks like had triangles on surface, can't remember name) |
| 08:22.56 | kerio | except that the warm sound is probably caused by the loss of low frequences due to the degradation of the physical disc |
| 08:23.03 | Estel_ | kerio, of course |
| 08:23.18 | Estel_ | but it's just matter of prefferences, I can understand that people may like it |
| 08:23.29 | kerio | every time you listen to a vinyl, you're rerecording a slightly distorted version over it |
| 08:24.08 | Estel_ | anyway, no matter if they were comparing 192 khz version to lowpass=20khz or any other, result of large blind tests, including vinyl maniacs, were always ~50% |
| 08:24.15 | Estel_ | aka coin throw |
| 08:24.39 | Estel_ | kerio, in digital world, it's also the case - even sound card, even best one, have it own disortions |
| 08:24.59 | Estel_ | we like some of them more than others, that's why we like some sounds cards more than others |
| 08:25.19 | Estel_ | (not talking about obvious heavy disortions in some cheap cards like chinese usb ones) |
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| 08:26.32 | Estel_ | fun fact - blind test comparing some pro melomaniac cards with audigy 2zs from sound - tw, in every test, one card was present *twice*without listeners knowing it |
| 08:26.41 | Estel_ | very fun to read how they described sound |
| 08:26.51 | Estel_ | and how differently they took the same card playing twice |
| 08:27.06 | kerio | :D |
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| 08:27.16 | kerio | Estel_: but the soundcard isn't the sound |
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| 08:27.32 | kerio | and your analog apparatus can also have its own distortions |
| 08:27.38 | Estel_ | well, in same enviromnent, changing card changes sound a little |
| 08:27.41 | Estel_ | sure thing |
| 08:27.56 | Estel_ | that's why for tests you're always using top notch analog set |
| 08:28.19 | Estel_ | not to mention than brain indeed *is* nice at filtering some things (or placebo effects ;) ) |
| 08:28.23 | kerio | in fact, i'm not quite certain why people go on rambling about the fact that you only have 16 bits or 24 or 32 for each sample instead of a real value |
| 08:28.33 | kerio | while the vinyl is listened to using a *mechanical* thing |
| 08:28.46 | kerio | for fuck's sake, my bathroom's door jams about one in three times |
| 08:28.49 | Estel_ | but it doesn't have anything to do about wasting space for including frequencies above 20khz in recordings on N900 or any digital media meant for humans |
| 08:29.21 | kerio | besides, vinyls are recorded with a weird equalization and you're supposed to undo that equalization to listen to them |
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| 08:29.45 | kerio | Estel_: my point is that the only sensible thing to do to store audio recordings is to use digital audio |
| 08:30.12 | Estel_ | well, no one ever was able to identify 16 bit vs 24 or 32, in blind tests, either |
| 08:30.45 | Estel_ | of course, it is only sensible per technical side, but if someone prefers listening to vinyls more, I have no problem with it ;) |
| 08:30.50 | kerio | oh absolutely |
| 08:31.01 | Estel_ | btw I like vinyls for nice bigger side for art |
| 08:31.05 | Estel_ | and bigger cover |
| 08:31.14 | kerio | yeah, that's something that's kinda missing with cd releases |
| 08:31.16 | Estel_ | some vinyls are art in themselves |
| 08:31.43 | kerio | strangely enough, usually digital releases include really big artwork |
| 08:31.56 | Estel_ | + nostalgia value for setting speed and all this needle thing... Although I don't listen to my collectible vinyls often, to not wear them :P |
| 08:32.26 | Estel_ | BTW, new equipment use laser and it's reflections to read from vinyls, without wearing them |
| 08:32.38 | Estel_ | say about digital analog :P |
| 08:32.48 | kerio | Estel_: except for the radiation pressure |
| 08:33.15 | Estel_ | oh, needle is prone to magnetism, too ;) |
| 08:33.27 | kerio | clearly, if you're *that* good of an audiophile, you should be able to hear the difference! |
| 08:33.34 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 08:33.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr, 16bit actually have considerable distorion on very low sounds like -50dB, due to linear quantization |
| 08:34.20 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, sure, and there are people who *hear*sound at above 20khz. But, hearing sounds, and telling difference in real-life tracks, is a different thing |
| 08:34.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 08:34.59 | kerio | i'd like a general switch to 96k/24 |
| 08:35.04 | Estel_ | that's why I said "preservation for hystorical purposes" should be always done i higher frequency range and sample rate possible |
| 08:35.10 | Estel_ | but, real life usage, not |
| 08:35.13 | kerio | but then again, i usually listen listen to V0 MP3s via A2DP |
| 08:35.26 | Estel_ | kerio, I wouldn't, due to wasted space |
| 08:35.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | 100 ack, I'm also not using oxygen-free 10mm^2 power cord to plug my amp to the wall outlet, where 1.5mm NYM starts |
| 08:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 08:35.38 | Estel_ | :P |
| 08:35.57 | jaska | shouldnt the hifists be using superconductors |
| 08:35.59 | Estel_ | well, WizardNumberNext was whinning about N900 amp being not able to use 96 khz... |
| 08:36.09 | jaska | for their audio cables |
| 08:36.19 | Estel_ | not compare it to N900 (still rather good!) DAC... |
| 08:36.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | but studio equipment iirc using 24bit, and they do that for a reason |
| 08:36.53 | Estel_ | sure thing |
| 08:37.01 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: not 32? sounds a bit harder to go from 24 to 16 |
| 08:37.22 | Estel_ | industry standards, more things compatible with 24 |
| 08:37.43 | kerio | nevermind, you still just have to take the most significant 16 bits anyway |
| 08:37.48 | Estel_ | and even studios are not eager to pay zillions for whole infra upgrade to 32, for no real difference in perceived quality |
| 08:38.41 | Estel_ | btw, WizardNumberNext, if you're interested in audiophile quality from N900, searcgh tmo for thread about N900 used together with external DAC |
| 08:38.47 | Estel_ | where I humbly participated ;) |
| 08:39.49 | Estel_ | using hostmode, you can connect your audiophile DAC (which you undoubtly own :P) to N900 and redirect whole audio there, bypassing N900's dac |
| 08:40.31 | Estel_ | now, call me barbarian, but while I really like this project and worked to bring it into usable state, I really like N900's DAC and think it's producing very good quality sound |
| 08:40.58 | Estel_ | btw, thread in question was something like "N900 as portable audiophile music player" or smth like that |
| 08:41.55 | Estel_ | using the ocassionp kudos to hostmode team again |
| 08:42.08 | Estel_ | for bringing all those never-expected possibilities to N900 |
| 08:44.04 | jacekowski | i did buy monster extension lead recently |
| 08:44.08 | jacekowski | "buy" |
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| 08:44.23 | jacekowski | guy at the shop was so eager to sell it to me that i got it for free with everything else i bought |
| 08:46.00 | Estel_ | lol |
| 08:46.15 | Estel_ | what is it, led torch for connecting it to usb? |
| 08:46.21 | jacekowski | http://www.amazon.co.uk/Monster-Definition-HDP-750G-PowerCenter/dp/B003N1KL3E/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_2_0 |
| 08:46.29 | jacekowski | £40 |
| 08:46.42 | Estel_ | BTW, from the series of "epic replicas": |
| 08:46.43 | Estel_ | http://img02.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/29/85/99/14/2985991462 |
| 08:46.47 | Estel_ | it's not a mockup |
| 08:46.59 | Estel_ | it's the fake system found in one of N900's replicas |
| 08:47.05 | Estel_ | someone is gonna die for that |
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| 08:47.47 | kerio | epic |
| 08:47.53 | tadzik | hahaha |
| 08:47.59 | tadzik | Estel_: url to the auction? |
| 08:49.27 | Estel_ | sure |
| 08:49.36 | Estel_ | http://allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=2985991462 |
| 08:49.48 | Estel_ | jacekowski, wtf is that you've provided link for? |
| 08:50.08 | jacekowski | monster oxygen free and all that BS extension lead |
| 08:50.18 | tadzik | hehe |
| 08:50.21 | Estel_ | tadzik, yesterday I showed "almost" perfect replica |
| 08:50.32 | Estel_ | I see |
| 08:51.26 | Estel_ | freemangordon, what is the possible use case for end-users of this acceleration thing you're cooking? |
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| 08:51.30 | Estel_ | sounds exciting |
| 08:52.13 | freemangordon | Estel_: look at embedLite(IPCLite) thread on TMO |
| 08:56.25 | Estel_ | vme nods |
| 08:56.39 | Estel_ | s/vme/\/me |
| 08:57.21 | Estel_ | I'm afraid I'm missing some very interesting threads on TMO due to "various reasons" |
| 08:58.33 | Estel_ | it's thread about qt fennec, freemangordon |
| 08:58.39 | Estel_ | ? |
| 09:01.24 | freemangordon | romaxa: calling d->mView->SetGLViewTransform(matr); in QGraphicsMozView::paint almost halves fps, without that call, I am able to achieve > 40 fps on both scrolling (TMO) and your 3d cube. Of course address bar is not visible without that call. I looked at the code path for SetGLViewTransform and found nothing suspicious. Any idea? Could it be there is some thread context switch? |
| 09:01.30 | freemangordon | Estel_: exactly |
| 09:02.24 | Estel_ | looks neat |
| 09:02.46 | vi____ | Vinyl is obsolete. |
| 09:05.19 | Estel_ | vi____nyl may be obsolete, but it's still fun to look at ;) |
| 09:05.41 | Estel_ | excuse pun |
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| 11:09.13 | Lava_Croft | That's one hell of a weird n900 |
| 11:09.19 | Lava_Croft | sporting Windows XP? lol |
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| 11:29.58 | vi____ | lolwut |
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| 12:06.56 | kerio | Pali: i say fuck the domain stuff |
| 12:07.24 | kerio | it's silly |
| 12:07.32 | kerio | current cssu-stable users have a fscked-up domain information anyway |
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| 14:31.00 | ShadowJK | what domain stuff? |
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| 14:37.51 | kerio | ShadowJK: HAM's builtin "protection" against updates to system packages |
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| 15:26.59 | freemangordon | romaxa: why is clip set in EmbedLiteViewThreadParent::SetGLViewTransform and EmbedLiteCompositorParent::RenderGL()? with removing the call to mgr->GetRoot()->SetClipRect(&mActiveClipping); from RenderGL() and removing the call to SetGLViewTransform from QGraphicsMozView::paint I have 40-50 fps with GL renderning. Is SetGLViewTransform used for rotation on harmattan or what? |
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| 15:37.15 | Pali | merlin1991: I updated descriptions of some CSSU packages on gitorious |
| 15:38.01 | Pali | freemangordon, can you move libcal library to cssu gitorious? |
| 15:38.07 | Pali | merlin already created repo for it |
| 15:39.12 | Pali | freemangoron, also I cloned https://gitorious.org/hald-addon-bme and https://gitorious.org/libbmeipc to https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement project |
| 15:40.20 | freemangordon | Pali: will do (libcal) |
| 15:46.33 | romaxa | freemangordon: SetGLViewTransform - yes it is used mostly for rotation, but clip also used in order to clip browser viewport to QGraphicsScene... at least before begin/endNativePainting is used |
| 15:47.17 | romaxa | freemangordon: without that I guess you should see some parts of the page always hidden behind URL bar |
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| 15:49.39 | freemangordon | romaxa: no, it looks ok |
| 15:49.51 | freemangordon | at least on n900 |
| 15:50.12 | freemangordon | and UI is like butter :D |
| 15:50.22 | romaxa | freemangordon: hmm interesting |
| 15:51.13 | romaxa | freemangordon: do you have patch with part removing clipping? |
| 15:51.22 | freemangordon | romaxa: another hmmm... bug. why is used painter->fillRect(r, d->mBgColor);? in QGraphicsMozView::paint that is. Why we don't use GL to draw the background |
| 15:51.56 | freemangordon | romaxa: no, I wanted to ask you first why is that used, esp clipping |
| 15:53.13 | freemangordon | romaxa: but you just need to comment clipping part in RenderGL(EmBedLiteCompositorParent.cpp) and to not call SetGLViewTransform in paint() |
| 15:54.10 | freemangordon | that fillRect lowers fps by 5-10 or something |
| 15:56.09 | freemangordon | romaxa: AIUI OGL compositor(layer manager or whatever it is called) has background color fill already implemented, isn't it better to extend embedLite API with some SetBackgroundColor function ? |
| 15:57.52 | romaxa | freemangordon: that has been done for quick impl... ideally I need to make GL paint that background |
| 15:59.06 | romaxa | freemangordon: on harmattan fillRect in GL mode supposed to work very fast, but on Fremantle it is not |
| 16:00.00 | romaxa | freemangordon: ideally I need to implement ColorLayer into Layer tree and do GL background color fill with mozilla, but it is more flexible to render custom background on UI side |
| 16:01.14 | romaxa | freemangordon: where did you see background color filling with OGL? |
| 16:01.22 | freemangordon | romaxa: If I get it right, background color is painted even now (it is black), one just need to change it |
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| 16:01.29 | freemangordon | romaxa: will try to find it |
| 16:01.41 | freemangordon | (again) |
| 16:03.01 | Pali | ping DocScrutinizer05 |
| 16:03.12 | Pali | what is with mail for nokia about GPG key? |
| 16:03.51 | freemangordon | romaxa: LayerManagerOGL::Render()? |
| 16:04.22 | freemangordon | romaxa: mGLContext->fClearColor(0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0); |
| 16:04.24 | freemangordon | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:04.55 | freemangordon | though I think there was another function using some member variable |
| 16:05.08 | freemangordon | and doing glClear |
| 16:07.20 | freemangordon | romaxa: I guess we can just call glClear in paint() instead of fillRect |
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| 16:09.25 | romaxa | freemangordon: yep, that make sese... |
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| 16:20.47 | freemangordon | romaxa: yep, doing glClearColor(1,1,1,0); glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT); instead of fillRect does the job |
| 16:21.55 | freemangordon | luf: hi man, long time no see :) |
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| 16:23.23 | luf | freemangordon: Hello ... I know :) |
| 16:23.41 | luf | freemangordon: new job and a lot of other things to do :( |
| 16:24.45 | freemangordon | romaxa: I found one problem with my modifications(clip and transformation matrix removal), touch events positions are not correct. Though I guess that will be easy to be fixed by someone familiar with the code :) |
| 16:28.22 | freemangordon | luf: new job? ooh |
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| 16:36.50 | WizardNumberNext | Estel_: sorry I have been sleeping and forgot to mark myself as being away. Charging, ok I believe you, but it still very strange. If it comes to amp - amp just amplify, so it able to play whatever you throw at it, as long as it fits in band. I do not care about freqs above 24kHz, as I doubt I can hear anything past 25kHz and anyway from music point of view there's nothing usable - it is about more samples in high frequency ( |
| 16:36.52 | WizardNumberNext | like say 16kHz and above), which I am concerned about. I am always interested in as high quality as I can get, unfortunately apart from my sound-system I do not have another DAC (shame isn't it) |
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| 16:38.08 | WizardNumberNext | so, my chasing of 192kHz/32b have nothing to do with frequency above 25kHz, but everything about as many as possible samples in frequencies like 1kHz - 25kHz |
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| 16:42.18 | WizardNumberNext | simply consider perfect sinusoid at 16kHz - with 44.1kHz sampling you will hear noise, not sinusoid, and every next sample would be in pretty much random place. So now you see why I choose high sampling rate with 32b. |
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| 16:43.04 | kerio | sampling at 44.1kHz will let you reconstruct the 16kHz sinusoid |
| 16:43.38 | kerio | if you're worried about imprecisions, increase bit depth, not sampling rate |
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| 16:46.04 | WizardNumberNext | and highest frequency. which could be reproduced with 44.1kHz sampling isn't 22,05kHzbut more like 11025Hz ans it is still saw, not sinusoid. So I bet you need at least 12-16 samples to reproduces any usuful signal - which would be around 2756.25-3675Hz |
| 16:46.16 | WizardNumberNext | no, kerio you do understand principle |
| 16:47.06 | WizardNumberNext | if you probe sound and you want to reproduce it, then you need loads of samples to reproduce it, not just 2 or 3 |
| 16:47.31 | WizardNumberNext | with 3 samples it won't work - it would noise - nothing else |
| 16:47.44 | kerio | yes, that's why you sample fourty four thousand times per second |
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| 16:48.15 | WizardNumberNext | with 2 samples on better end you get saw, which is not natural, or in worst case you can get silence |
| 16:48.29 | WizardNumberNext | ~44.1/16 |
| 16:48.29 | infobot | 2.75625 |
| 16:48.44 | kerio | ...wat? |
| 16:48.54 | WizardNumberNext | this is amount of samples for 16kHz with 44.1kHz sampling |
| 16:49.00 | kerio | ...WAT? |
| 16:49.06 | WizardNumberNext | it creates noise, not usefull signal |
| 16:51.41 | WizardNumberNext | amount of samples for one cycle of 16kHz |
| 16:51.42 | WizardNumberNext | zero-max-zero-min-zero |
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| 16:55.37 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: fourier transforms don't work that way, dude |
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| 16:59.56 | freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: are you sure you don't think about PWM? |
| 17:01.02 | freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: when you do DAC you put lowpass filter at the end ;) |
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| 17:26.26 | n900-dk | Where to sign up as volunteer? |
| 17:27.02 | kerio | n900-dk: idk, ask doc |
| 17:27.07 | kerio | there's not a "place" really |
| 17:27.53 | n900-dk | no formulars? ;) |
| 17:29.30 | n900-dk | ok, there might also be enough volunteers already. |
| 17:30.21 | ShadowJK | it's not even about fourier transform |
| 17:32.28 | ShadowJK | But the phenomenon is called aliasing, a 22.05kHz sinewave sampled at 44.1 will be squarewave.. but the components that make it square are higher frequencies than 22.05Khz :) |
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| 17:39.40 | kerio | n900-dk: well, what can you provide? |
| 17:41.48 | n900-dk | kerio: I work with network-engineering, dns-setups and sysadm |
| 17:42.06 | kerio | cool |
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| 17:56.30 | romaxa | freemangordon: we cannot remove SetGLViewTransform completely, but it probably make sense to provide option not set clip rect, also patch for glClear in qgraphicsmozview would be welcome |
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| 18:24.22 | KotCzarny | hrm |
| 18:24.57 | freemangordon | romaxa: ok, i'll work on my clone and will do a couple of pull requests, maybe tomorrow |
| 18:25.43 | freemangordon | romaxa: could you test in the meantime if glClear instead of fillRect will do the job on harm too? |
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| 19:54.11 | NeutrinoPower | <PROTECTED> |
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| 19:54.24 | KeepItReal | hji |
| 19:54.26 | KeepItReal | hi |
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| 19:58.28 | myname24 | Freemangordon: hi , i installed fennec 17.0a1 from thumb repo but when running it will crash instantly and from terminal segmentation fault . Any help ? |
| 19:59.04 | freemangordon | myname24: there is some conflict with nemo's VKB, whatever the name was |
| 19:59.28 | freemangordon | maliit or something |
| 20:01.13 | myname24 | Ok thanks i will uninstall it and report back :) |
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| 20:37.34 | myname24 | Freemangordon: i removed nemo vkb and still the same error |
| 20:38.17 | freemangordon | did you try to remove /home/user/.mozilla/fennec? |
| 20:41.05 | myname24 | Yes and a reboot also . Still crash |
| 20:41.15 | KotCzarny | strace it |
| 20:41.53 | freemangordon | myname24: hmm, strange. I guess you have libqtm12 installed |
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| 20:42.15 | myname24 | Yes . Should i removed it ? |
| 20:42.16 | freemangordon | though you won;t have segfault if some lib is missing |
| 20:42.21 | freemangordon | myname24: no |
| 20:42.47 | freemangordon | myname24: did you remove maliit qt plugin? |
| 20:42.53 | freemangordon | qt/qml |
| 20:43.01 | freemangordon | libmallit or something |
| 20:43.06 | freemangordon | btw no need to reboot |
| 20:43.15 | freemangordon | *libmaliit |
| 20:43.50 | freemangordon | myname24: could you give me the output from "dpkg -l | grep maliit" |
| 20:46.36 | myname24 | I removed libmaliit1 and it's dependecies and meecast was removed . But fennec is working now . Thanks |
| 20:46.53 | freemangordon | np |
| 20:47.09 | freemangordon | wonders WTF is meecast |
| 20:49.13 | freemangordon | myname24: Why TF you are not using omvweather widget? |
| 20:49.33 | freemangordon | but some bloated harm crap? |
| 20:51.56 | myname24 | I have omweather :) but the widget was too much power hungry ( but nice) . Now i have accuweather and i don't need widgets . |
| 20:52.33 | freemangordon | myname24: power hungry? putting it on my desktop does not change battery life. at all ;) |
| 20:53.21 | freemangordon | well, i guess if you set it up to check every five minutes it will affect the battery life |
| 20:54.35 | myname24 | Every 4 hours . But i'm suspecting something is consuming battery . Idle cpu is 5-6% is that normal ? |
| 20:54.46 | freemangordon | yep |
| 20:54.58 | freemangordon | if you measure, it is not idle :) |
| 20:55.12 | qwazix | freemangordon, pong |
| 20:55.21 | freemangordon | which process takes those 5-6%? |
| 20:55.21 | RzR | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1159344#post1159344# |
| 20:55.27 | RzR | fosdem anyone ? |
| 20:55.37 | RzR | e-yes and I will met there |
| 20:55.46 | freemangordon | qwazix: I think I made a big progress with embedLite port to fremantle |
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| 20:56.48 | freemangordon | Latest: youtube H264 though DSP (HW accel), webgl romaxa's cube @ 40 fps, GL accelerated rendering, scrolls @ 40-50 fps |
| 20:57.10 | freemangordon | memory usage seems fine too |
| 20:57.10 | xes | 8) |
| 20:57.22 | qwazix | :) :) Yep, I'm reading the backscroll |
| 20:57.27 | xes | wow! |
| 20:57.42 | qwazix | If cube is what I think it is, then this is superawesome |
| 20:58.09 | qwazix | on firefoxOS dev devices (dual core) it doesn't get 10fps |
| 20:58.16 | freemangordon | qwazix: that one ./qmlMozEmbedTest -url http://romaxa.info/css3d/cube3d/cube_fast.html |
| 20:58.50 | freemangordon | this ./qmlMozEmbedTest -url http://learningwebgl.com/lessons/lesson05/index.html crashes when GL accel is on |
| 20:58.51 | qwazix | Oh, no, it's not that the other one had video on all faces |
| 20:58.52 | M4rtinK | qwazix: so you got one ? :) |
| 20:59.05 | qwazix | M4rtinK, not yet |
| 20:59.18 | qwazix | I just saw them in AppDays |
| 20:59.20 | freemangordon | but I guess it is upstream bug, i'll report it later on |
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| 20:59.41 | qwazix | but I'll have one once they ship :) :) |
| 20:59.48 | M4rtinK | nice :) |
| 20:59.55 | freemangordon | qwazix: vidoe stutters a bit when GL accel is on, but I guess it is all matter of fixing upstream bugs |
| 21:00.06 | freemangordon | *video |
| 21:00.28 | freemangordon | qwazix: so, the big question: what we gonna do with the UI |
| 21:01.30 | freemangordon | qwazix: on the side note: if you put the address bar on to, we'll lose 10-15 fps when GL acceleration is on :P. Unless I foud a way to fix that |
| 21:01.40 | freemangordon | s/on to/on top/ |
| 21:02.22 | qwazix | ? What does the position of the address bar has to do with GL? |
| 21:03.17 | KotCzarny | freemangordon: make it separate window? |
| 21:03.57 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: what to make a separate window? |
| 21:04.08 | KotCzarny | address bar |
| 21:04.10 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 21:04.20 | qwazix | I intend to continue with the UI but I can only spend around 10-20h/week, which means at least two weeks before basic functionality is there |
| 21:04.33 | qwazix | unless somebody wants to jump in |
| 21:05.34 | freemangordon | qwazix: if MoxEmbedLite widget is not on 0,0 (x,y) there is a transformation matrix to be applied. for some reason it slows down the things |
| 21:05.49 | freemangordon | I'll try to fix it, I promise :) |
| 21:06.00 | qwazix | freemangordon, then we'll have to get rid of the title bar too |
| 21:06.11 | freemangordon | yep |
| 21:06.12 | KotCzarny | composite it |
| 21:06.23 | KotCzarny | separate windows |
| 21:06.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 21:06.38 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: compositing slow down the thing a lot |
| 21:06.38 | qwazix | (except if 0,0 doesn't count if it's the native one |
| 21:07.02 | freemangordon | qwazix: 0,0 is not 0,0 in terms of GL, you know |
| 21:07.03 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 21:07.09 | KotCzarny | then make it fullscreen |
| 21:07.13 | freemangordon | it is |
| 21:07.22 | qwazix | freemangordon, no, I don't know please explain |
| 21:07.24 | KotCzarny | with toolbars sliding in |
| 21:07.48 | freemangordon | how do you think I achieve 50 fps on what is essentialy fennec 20.1a? |
| 21:08.18 | freemangordon | qwazix: GL coodinate system starts bottom left |
| 21:08.28 | freemangordon | not top left |
| 21:08.45 | freemangordon | so 0,0 is 0,480 in terms of OGL |
| 21:08.50 | freemangordon | on n900 |
| 21:09.07 | freemangordon | it is weird :D |
| 21:09.07 | KotCzarny | natural grid |
| 21:09.09 | qwazix | Ah, physics notation |
| 21:09.14 | freemangordon | yep |
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| 21:09.24 | qwazix | so do we need real 0,0 or GL 0,0? |
| 21:09.55 | qwazix | (btw that learningwebgl link segfaults on romaxa's nemo build too) |
| 21:11.03 | freemangordon | qwazix: youh, seems like upstream bug |
| 21:11.06 | freemangordon | *yeah |
| 21:11.23 | KotCzarny | anyway, nitenite |
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| 21:11.26 | freemangordon | try with SW_RENDER=1 qmlMoz... |
| 21:11.35 | freemangordon | Kotnite |
| 21:12.08 | qwazix | Anyway, don't worry too much about that, we'll move the address bar if needed. |
| 21:12.58 | qwazix | We can also do another trick, create a usercontent.css which moves everything 56 pixels down and overlay at least the title bar over the empty space |
| 21:13.17 | qwazix | that way we still got the mozilla widget on 0,0 |
| 21:13.54 | freemangordon | I am afraid it will overpaint the address bar, but we may try it |
| 21:14.43 | qwazix | we can also create an addressbar/titlebar in html as a last resort |
| 21:14.44 | freemangordon | however, I think I will find the way to fix that. At least I'll try |
| 21:14.58 | freemangordon | qwazix: that doesn't sound too bad |
| 21:15.45 | freemangordon | this thingie is fast enough, it loads pages almost with the speed of qtwebkit |
| 21:15.52 | qwazix | In fact we can create the full UI in html, or even steal it from boot2gecko |
| 21:16.22 | freemangordon | qwazix: if you say so. I am not much into gecko/xul, etc |
| 21:16.53 | freemangordon | though it wouldn't make much of a difference if it is qml or html |
| 21:17.34 | qwazix | I don't know xul either but I think b2g firefox instance isn't xul but plain HTML5, i'll check it out |
| 21:17.40 | freemangordon | though if we do the html stuff, we don;t need qdeclarative stuff, simple qt will do it. moar free RAM that is :D |
| 21:18.43 | qwazix | hm, but we'd have to find some way to read the current theme in html, or go with non-native look |
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| 21:18.58 | freemangordon | qwazix: mi biggest fear was that at the end we'd have something with the speed of -thumb fennec - usable, but far from good. |
| 21:19.03 | freemangordon | *my |
| 21:19.24 | qwazix | (webgl learning thingie doesn't work with SW_RENDER but no segfault) |
| 21:19.25 | freemangordon | so far it seems it wil be good |
| 21:19.43 | freemangordon | qwazix: well, it works here with SW_RENDER |
| 21:19.52 | freemangordon | qwazix: pass -no-glwidget |
| 21:20.15 | freemangordon | ./qmlMozEmbedTest -url http://learningwebgl.com/lessons/lesson05/index.html -no-glwidget |
| 21:20.52 | qwazix | ok, after reboot. It crashed on me :) |
| 21:20.55 | freemangordon | btw cpu@805 renders it with ~ 14 fps |
| 21:21.02 | freemangordon | n900 |
| 21:21.06 | qwazix | how do you check fps? |
| 21:21.18 | freemangordon | export SHOW_FPS=30 |
| 21:21.38 | qwazix | tx |
| 21:22.48 | freemangordon | we'll have some problems with video, I hope romaxa to fix them. It seems no xv(overlay) is used, but sw scaling |
| 21:28.20 | qwazix | oh drat, I mistyped and got a crash again |
| 21:34.52 | qwazix | no, crashed with no-glwidget too |
| 21:35.03 | freemangordon | ooh |
| 21:35.14 | freemangordon | well, it works in fremantle |
| 21:35.16 | qwazix | That is nemo on N950 |
| 21:36.45 | qwazix | so, before continuing the qml route I'll check out what other options we have for UI and report |
| 21:37.06 | freemangordon | well, qml is not that bad in that case |
| 21:37.55 | qwazix | Also if somebody wants to help a nice documentation of functions that should be called from the UI would be nice, reading coderus' code would provide most of that |
| 21:40.14 | freemangordon | qwazix: reading test qlm too, it is nothing complicated |
| 21:41.57 | qwazix | yeah, but as I've seen it misses most features |
| 21:42.09 | qwazix | bookmarks, options etc |
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| 22:15.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: small update, we came from some 20 physical servers plus Akamai server farm, the current config already is massively consolidated by Nemein |
| 22:18.10 | qwazix | haha, DocScrutinizer05 you've been reading me feeding the trolls? |
| 22:18.36 | qwazix | I can update that ok |
| 22:19.18 | M4rtinK | and it is actually faster now ? :) |
| 22:19.21 | M4rtinK | interesting |
| 22:19.21 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, and what is with email to nokia?? |
| 22:19.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know of any email to nokia |
| 22:19.48 | Pali | about gpg key |
| 22:20.17 | Pali | if you do not have time, I will write response |
| 22:20.26 | Pali | we really want working downloads.maemo.nokia.com |
| 22:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think somebody said it's not my business, during last council meeting |
| 22:21.49 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ...i recall you telling MT that you would be doing it |
| 22:22.00 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, somebody who got thay mail should answer to nokia ASAP |
| 22:22.18 | Pali | kerio, who is MT? |
| 22:22.25 | kerio | MentalistTraceur |
| 22:22.33 | Pali | hm, is online? |
| 22:22.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I never seen any proper request for any particular mail to nokia, except that guy in maemo-ssu mentioning "if such a mail explaining impact to the mail thread ... und desk... would help" |
| 22:22.40 | kerio | he doesn't do IRC very much |
| 22:23.00 | Pali | any other contact? |
| 22:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I honestly don't see why council is in charge to write such mail |
| 22:23.14 | Pali | if nobody has time to write mail, I will do it again |
| 22:23.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it seems that MT is the one to do so, alright |
| 22:23.32 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, because council got email from nokia? |
| 22:23.36 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because nokia probably doesn't give a crap, but we do |
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| 22:24.03 | kerio | and council is somewhat "official" |
| 22:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you're so eager to take that "...would help" for a request for a further mail, go ahead and send it |
| 22:24.43 | kerio | btw, have any of you heard from that akuma guy again? |
| 22:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | council is your ambassador, not your secretary |
| 22:25.45 | freemangordon | hmm? |
| 22:25.58 | M4rtinK | akuma ? |
| 22:26.21 | Pali | TO & CC in GPG mail from nokia: me, DocScrutinizer05, ivgalvez, council and board |
| 22:26.30 | freemangordon | fuck, MO is down again :( |
| 22:26.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | the nokia guy who said he'll come back to that "nice helpful channel" on monday |
| 22:26.43 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, so really only one of ^^^ can answer to email |
| 22:26.46 | kerio | freemangordon: worksforme, just slow |
| 22:27.04 | freemangordon | kerio: no |
| 22:27.11 | freemangordon | does not work |
| 22:27.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: FFS I already DID answer to that mail |
| 22:27.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I went out of loop when he added you to the CC |
| 22:28.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | so WTF am I suddenly in the loop again? Anything you need me for? |
| 22:28.17 | Pali | when will be gpg key fixed |
| 22:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: kerio: yes, it's strange. wget works in just 2s instead of 0.9, ssh to firewall works like a charm, but browser takes 20s again here, to load&render ~flashing |
| 22:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll give the FW another boot |
| 22:30.30 | qwazix | I thought that guy on tmo was actually not knowing the situation and saying things, but he's a real troll. I hope that at least some members found some useful info in my posts and it wasn't an utter waste of breath. Somebody's gotta ban him. |
| 22:30.52 | kerio | qwazix: oh, who? |
| 22:31.41 | qwazix | kerio, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88659&page=10 |
| 22:31.55 | M4rtinK | maybe its some old troll with a canned identity ? |
| 22:32.19 | qwazix | Joined on Aug 2010, most posts today |
| 22:32.50 | qwazix | That's not impossible |
| 22:33.00 | qwazix | also the verbiage reminds me of something |
| 22:33.24 | M4rtinK | weird, the other posts look quite sane |
| 22:33.33 | qwazix | though most trolls sound about the same. One post in three completely rational and others out of line |
| 22:33.43 | M4rtinK | other than to the outage thread |
| 22:33.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: two requests already to ban piotr asshat |
| 22:33.55 | qwazix | yep |
| 22:35.56 | qwazix | btw is there a post limit or sth for uploading avatar on tmo? anybody knows? |
| 22:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, seems none of nemein's or maemo's sysops/admins is active. I have to reboot that friggin FW before nobody can do it anymore |
| 22:38.07 | qwazix | go ahead and reboot it for now, IMO |
| 22:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd really like to investigate a bit for some stinking values in some syslog or /sys/ or /proc/, but I have no clue about that stuff |
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| 22:39.44 | qwazix | maybe you could tar /var/log altogether and somebody who knows will look at it when available? |
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| 22:40.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I give it another reboot before I go afk again, I'm really not fit to deal with all that stuff anymore, need some time off. the last 3 weeks were too much |
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| 22:40.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and guys like piotr are just the icing on top |
| 22:40.51 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the phrase "haters gonna hate" comes to mind |
| 22:41.15 | FIQ | he's just going trolololol |
| 22:41.18 | FIQ | nothing serious |
| 22:41.19 | FIQ | I guess |
| 22:42.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | FW booted |
| 22:43.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: all back to normal? |
| 22:44.08 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yep |
| 22:44.37 | FIQ | i'm a little curious here |
| 22:44.56 | FIQ | I've noticed you've had major problems with repository.maemo.org |
| 22:45.06 | FIQ | how come nokia didn't? stronger servers? |
| 22:45.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | please ping me like tsunami coming when it gets slow/down again, since then it's absolutely last time I can reboot it, a 30min later even my login stalls |
| 22:46.17 | qwazix | FIQ: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1318844&postcount=113 |
| 22:46.42 | qwazix | of course the attack at the bottom isn't going to you but the troll that I was replying to |
| 22:47.30 | FIQ | I see |
| 22:47.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 22:47.42 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: thanks |
| 22:47.47 | FIQ | can you solve it or is the repo screwed? |
| 22:47.56 | FIQ | (in practice) |
| 22:48.35 | FIQ | I guess however it goes the repositories will probably never be as stable as they were before |
| 22:48.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~repo-down |
| 22:48.38 | infobot | rumour has it, repo-down is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-20.log.html#t2013-01-20T02:08:42 |
| 22:48.58 | qwazix | repo is fine as far as I know, but it requires some firewall wizardry |
| 22:49.33 | qwazix | so that traffic is well throttled |
| 22:50.30 | FIQ | I guess it will end up slower than before the migration but working |
| 22:50.56 | M4rtinK | FIQ: and someone can also finally try to fix some of the long-term issues |
| 22:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | current state is: [2013-01-28 10:41:00] <mashiara> ok, stage now has an external vif that is configured but not up, local iptables needs still to be configured. |
| 22:51.05 | M4rtinK | such as the autobuilder outage |
| 22:51.06 | qwazix | Not necessarily as there are about 40000 operational N900's not that a big number |
| 22:51.15 | M4rtinK | once the repos are online of course |
| 22:51.31 | qwazix | it's just that the system was set up with a different config in mind |
| 22:52.29 | qwazix | That's speculation though, my technical skills aren't that good to predict what'll happen |
| 22:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now all our problems stem from friggin firewall I just rebooted |
| 22:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | it obviously goes bonkers even without repo being up, but with repo traffic it's down instantly |
| 22:54.22 | M4rtinK | weird |
| 22:55.11 | kerio | is akamai still all up in our grill? |
| 22:59.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | akamai serverfarm seems to have shut down. AIUI it's same servers that host tablets-dev |
| 23:03.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | last thursday iirc we seen DNS changes to remove stage.maemo.org and turn tmo from CNAME into A record |
| 23:03.02 | kerio | so... what's bringing everything to its knees whenever rmo is enabled again? |
| 23:03.24 | kerio | the n900s aren't all constantly hammering the repo |
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| 23:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I don't know. I think it's mere traffix |
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| 23:04.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | the FW needed 14h for *.m.o without repo to take it down |
| 23:04.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | with enabling repo this happens during minutes |
| 23:05.34 | kerio | what the fuck |
| 23:05.43 | kerio | so... what do we do? |
| 23:06.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-28 10:41:00] <mashiara> ok, stage now has an external vif that is configured but not up, local iptables needs still to be configured. |
| 23:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | though that FW POS needs fixing too, I'm not eager brkn caqlling me DocReboot now |
| 23:07.57 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: do some shell kung-fu and set an interval to fw reboot? :d |
| 23:08.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | cronjob |
| 23:08.18 | FIQ | ye |
| 23:09.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-29 08:45:22] <aslani> but there's something weird going on since, xen says IP address of that machine in "unknown" |
| 23:12.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | odds are Nemein prefers to move the VM to our iron, rather than fixing that on their xen-grid |
| 23:12.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | no FW on our server too, I guess |
| 23:12.52 | kerio | bleh, yet another migration |
| 23:12.56 | kerio | i hadn't realized this |
| 23:14.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: and not the last one |
| 23:14.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | since we need to migrate to something we really can afford, those srvers still are >500EUR/month for CoLo |
| 23:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and they're possibly just a tad too weak for our whole infra |
| 23:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the plan is to get the iron handed over from Nemein at end of Feb the latest, hopefully with all the VM moved on those server(s), and then run them for a month or two during which we migrate a third time, this time to rented or free hw, like e.g. at osuosl.org |
| 23:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or Hetzner |
| 23:19.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can't afford run our own hw on CoLo, figure what happens if blue magic smoke escapes |
| 23:20.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | whole *.m.o would go down same sacond, and when or if it ever comes up again is up to anybody's guess |
| 23:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we *need* rented hardware, like e.g. Hetzner root servers, which also are cheaper than same power on CoLo with our own hw donated by Nokia |
| 23:22.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, there are none of the obvious better optons available to us, like e.g. getting the money for the servers instead of the iron, from Nokia |
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| 23:24.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither could we make Nemein migrate to other infra e.g at hetzner, directly. at least I doubt they will do that. They *might* do migration of the VM from their xen-grid to the irons Nokia donated to us, since everything else just looks too silly and useless |
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| 23:52.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~repo-down |
| 23:52.20 | infobot | rumour has it, repo-down is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-20.log.html#t2013-01-20T02:08:42 |
| 23:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: repo-down is also http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-30.log.html#t2013-01-30T00:51:04 |
| 23:52.35 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |