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| 02:40.04 | peterbjornx | hi guys |
| 02:40.14 | peterbjornx | are the maemo5 repos down? |
| 02:43.19 | wmarone | yes, there's a note up at TMO |
| 02:46.06 | peterbjornx | thanks, i should've read the topic |
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| 04:50.13 | jonwil | does anyone know if there is a mirror anywhere of the nokia-binaries repo? |
| 04:50.17 | jonwil | the SDK one |
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| 05:07.48 | kerio | jonwil: that would be akin to a ssu/apps mirror |
| 05:08.01 | kerio | so... probably yes, but not public |
| 05:09.42 | kerio | aww, the "superbattery" calibrated to 1411 |
| 05:09.50 | kerio | vi____: you liar |
| 05:14.53 | kerio | i mean, it's still fairly good |
| 05:15.31 | kerio | but it's probably not worth it to switch from the original bl-5j at ~1300 |
| 05:17.55 | romaxa | freemangordon: btw you said about memory overhead... browser on N900 has it's own browserd instance, which is only sharing disk space and libxul.so loaded into memory |
| 05:26.40 | jonwil | great, bugs.maemo.org is running slow |
| 05:26.48 | jonwil | or not working |
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| 05:34.51 | jonwil | is bugs.maemo.org slow for anyone else/ |
| 05:34.53 | jonwil | ? |
| 05:35.16 | thedead1440 | jonwil: its connecting for me but after that its a never-ending wait; waited for 4mins still no luck |
| 05:35.28 | jonwil | ok |
| 05:37.20 | jonwil | ok, so, is there anything I can usefully do to help with browser stuff? |
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| 06:10.30 | chx | hi. i posted my question here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=37154781#post37154781 -- basically i would like to hook an audio modem to the n900. is that ... possible? |
| 06:11.21 | ds3 | to do what? |
| 06:16.29 | chx | so that i can send a command to the n900 to open the building door via the existing phone system :) |
| 06:17.32 | ds3 | so you really are looking for way to send audio progammatically over a voice call? |
| 06:19.41 | chx | i want to make a voice call |
| 06:19.50 | chx | a very short one, actually. |
| 06:20.05 | chx | just pick up the phone, press the button six, over. |
| 06:20.18 | ds3 | think that is just software |
| 06:20.33 | chx | well, you need to solve the "pick up the phone" problem somehow |
| 06:20.54 | chx | playing the six, sure that's simple |
| 06:21.25 | chx | i mean, http://jetcityorange.com/dtmf/DTMF-6.mp3 play this, done |
| 06:21.28 | ds3 | isn't that a bunch of dbus commands? |
| 06:26.47 | chx | what...? |
| 06:27.01 | chx | how do you plan to phsyically connect to an RJ11 connector? |
| 06:27.34 | kerio | don't you have an internet connection at home? |
| 06:28.41 | chx | I failed at communicating through what I wanted to do |
| 06:28.54 | chx | Yes, I have an Internet connection |
| 06:29.38 | chx | I want to use it to command a device (perhaps the n900 because that's the most open device with wifi i own) to open a door. The door is remote controlled via a traditional phone. |
| 06:29.52 | kerio | and there's no other way to control the door? |
| 06:32.32 | chx | nope |
| 06:32.40 | chx | this is a 20 floor highrise |
| 06:34.09 | kerio | does the door actually have its own phone line? |
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| 06:36.35 | chx | it's hooked into the building pbx |
| 06:37.20 | chx | when you ring someone from outside you dial via a normal phone system |
| 06:37.33 | chx | theoretically i could forward the door buzzer to my cellphone -- the only reason I cant do that is that i cancelled my landline cos it was redundant and expensive |
| 06:37.45 | kerio | oh, so you have to call from outside? |
| 06:37.49 | kerio | isn't that also expensive? |
| 06:38.47 | chx | it uses the house pbx, so it's free |
| 06:39.20 | chx | anyways, i might give this up, get a raspberry pi, a powered usb hub, plug in a wifi stick, i have plenty, buy a usb modem for a few pennies and be done |
| 06:40.12 | kerio | that's what i was going to suggest, yeah |
| 06:40.19 | kerio | or just a computer that you leave turned on |
| 06:40.45 | chx | there's absolutely no space for that |
| 06:41.06 | kerio | you have no computers at home? :o |
| 06:41.30 | chx | i have four, and so what? |
| 06:41.38 | chx | they are nowhere near the phone jack |
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| 08:10.27 | Pauly1210 | hi |
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| 08:16.14 | jonwil | hi |
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| 08:24.28 | pablomobile | Hi |
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| 09:33.57 | kgu | How come I can't change repository url for an existing repository? (want to change it to the mirror) |
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| 09:43.05 | kerio | kgu: it should be made more obvious, but those catalogues are not meant to be touched by users |
| 09:43.43 | kerio | disable it and add a new one |
| 09:43.44 | kgu | so I will have to disable it and a new one for the mirrors? |
| 09:43.49 | kerio | but it won't work properly in HAM |
| 09:43.56 | kerio | for upgrades, at least |
| 09:44.00 | kgu | thx :) |
| 09:44.10 | kerio | unless you use an apt-mirror one |
| 09:44.28 | jacekowski | i've got apt-mirror repo |
| 09:45.07 | kerio | the solution is not to use apt-mirror, the solution is to stop using HAM |
| 09:47.18 | kgu | really? Thought that you had to use HAM, especially for upgrades.. |
| 09:48.17 | kerio | kgu: if you're asking if you can use apt-get to do system upgrades, you can't use apt-get to do system upgrades |
| 09:48.58 | kgu | ok, but otherwise you recommend using apt-get for program installations? |
| 09:49.22 | kerio | kgu: if you're asking if you can use apt-get to do program installations, you can't use apt-get to do program installations |
| 09:49.29 | kerio | but it should be safe |
| 10:01.25 | Hurrian | kerio, IIRC you can simply "apt-get install mp-fremantle-community-pr" |
| 10:01.47 | Hurrian | since that's 90% of what HAM does, minus the slowness |
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| 10:03.08 | Lava_Croft | The best way to upgrade is to just use HAM and be busy with something else at the same time |
| 10:03.15 | Lava_Croft | That way, the slowness of HAM will elude you somewhat |
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| 10:17.35 | kerio | Hurrian: ofc |
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| 10:22.22 | Estel_ | ~seen Pali |
| 10:22.24 | infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10h 30m 28s ago, saying: 'n900 has gnu userspace, so low level can be also tar -czf '. |
| 10:23.01 | Estel_ | freemangordon, Pali is one to pester for bugs in bits for userspace bme replacement? |
| 10:23.06 | Estel_ | yep? |
| 10:23.41 | Estel_ | asking, because I was out of loop, and so goes on bla bla |
| 10:23.52 | Estel_ | = I have no idea who is working on it now |
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| 10:24.55 | Hurrian | Estel_, Pali is the replacement BME maintainer |
| 10:25.13 | Estel_ | thanks - nice to see you again Hurrian, btw :) |
| 10:25.19 | Hurrian | it is hosted on his site after all |
| 10:25.38 | Hurrian | Estel_, surprised to see you're back after some time out of the loop |
| 10:26.09 | Estel_ | I'm always back, such mere things as politics won't scare me off ;) |
| 10:26.45 | Estel_ | seriously though, had some serious things in rl to take care of... Methinks I need to apologize some people for lack of expected contact |
| 10:27.13 | Estel_ | good new is that I'm testdriving pre-pre-pre-pre alpha version of N900 body replacemebnt, since few days |
| 10:27.59 | Estel_ | it does have any useful things on exterior side - basically, it looks like ugly piece of alu - but, inside, it got almost all parts that need to cooperate with motherboard |
| 10:28.19 | Estel_ | and motherboard isn't sparking on contact anymore =D |
| 10:29.17 | jonwil | BME replacement is a great thing for N900 |
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| 10:29.35 | jonwil | now if only we could replace some other things too... :P |
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| 10:30.10 | jonwil | All my recent efforts at reverse engineering have so far come up with nothing useful |
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| 10:52.45 | user05 | when to expect repository.maemo.org to be up again? Anyone knows it? |
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| 11:03.31 | thedead1440 | user05: the /topic has the link to a TMO thread where updates are so seeing that you can see work is on-going |
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| 11:07.27 | user05 | thedead1440: 10k u |
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| 11:21.59 | Aoyagi_joytop | kerio: So it was of course bogus. The phone wasn't "as good as new", it had wobbly display, warranty was 6 months, not 24. And the keyboard was Spanish. :D |
| 11:22.07 | kerio | :D |
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| 11:50.57 | Estel_ | jonwil, and what you've tried to reverse-engineer, lately? |
| 11:51.57 | jonwil | some ICD stuff, some wifi stuff, some GPRS stuff, a whole bunch of connectivity UI bits |
| 11:53.09 | Estel_ | nods |
| 11:53.17 | Estel_ | where exactly you've meet a wall? |
| 11:53.34 | Estel_ | lack of participation from others, probably? |
| 11:54.14 | jonwil | Just cant seem to get anywhere because of undocumented libraries, undocumented APIs, unknown data structures and the fact that ARM ASM is a LOT harder to reverse engineer than x86 |
| 11:55.08 | jonwil | and yes, lack of interest from other people too |
| 11:56.55 | Estel_ | I remember your mails to mailing list |
| 11:57.24 | Estel_ | would love to help if not for almost complete lack of coding skills, let alone RE |
| 11:57.50 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: awesome efforts. |
| 11:58.00 | Estel_ | Pali, ping |
| 11:58.10 | Pali | Estel_, pong |
| 11:58.24 | Estel_ | I've encountered strange thing when it comes to usb mode used alongside bme replacement bits |
| 11:58.28 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: it seems almost as if that was one of the express design aims |
| 11:58.56 | Estel_ | everytime i end working with mass storage tings connected to N900 and use "periferial mode with charging button"... |
| 11:59.06 | Estel_ | it end up as "peripherial mode with *boost*" |
| 11:59.18 | Estel_ | seriously, that is what banner says, and I confirmed it in reality |
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| 11:59.35 | Estel_ | it's peripherial mode, but boost still active, and devices connected are still light up |
| 12:00.02 | Estel_ | no idea why it keeps booston, though, nothing suspicious in syslog, I suspect userland bit bug |
| 12:00.13 | Pali | Estel_, look at /sys/class/power_supply_bq241*/mode |
| 12:00.18 | Pali | if it has really boost mode |
| 12:00.22 | Estel_ | as, after all, it even *announce* peripherial mode with boost, via banner |
| 12:00.25 | Estel_ | yes |
| 12:00.29 | Pali | or only MCE LED pattern was not deactivated |
| 12:00.34 | Estel_ | it has, and as said, I checked it hardware-wise |
| 12:00.40 | Estel_ | it's still providing real boost |
| 12:00.51 | Pali | Estel_, which version of usbmode do you use? |
| 12:00.54 | Estel_ | i.e. up to 200 mA 5V |
| 12:01.18 | Estel_ | one related to kernel-power version from repos |
| 12:01.36 | Estel_ | i.e. last one that work with kp51r1 |
| 12:02.26 | Estel_ | I'm just getting into the loop again, so sorry, if I missed something important (searched a little, but never found reports of such behavior or fixlogs) |
| 12:02.34 | Estel_ | (fixes in changelos*) |
| 12:02.43 | Pali | Estel_ update to kp52 from TMO and usbmode to 1.0-3 |
| 12:04.21 | Pali | Estel_, here is last usbmode version: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/usbmode/ |
| 12:04.27 | Pali | but you need kp52 for it |
| 12:07.23 | Estel_ | thanks a lot |
| 12:07.25 | Estel_ | will do |
| 12:07.32 | Estel_ | then, re-check bug existence, yep? |
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| 12:09.27 | Estel_ | Pali, as I was able to catch you - any chances for including module I've requested (qf9700) in next KP version? I've send it via maemo-developers mailing list, including source code (afaik it just require compiling against kernel-power headers) |
| 12:10.22 | Estel_ | It would easy life of USB->ethernet dongle's users a lot, as every new davicom is using it, instead of old module (and, new one is free of most old davicom bugs) |
| 12:10.35 | Aoyagi_joytop | Pali: I'm really curious why is it hosted on Matfyz :D |
| 12:10.38 | Estel_ | of course new and old module doesn't collide |
| 12:10.54 | Aoyagi_joytop | What is this boost? |
| 12:19.31 | kerio | how do i use more power? i'm at 475mA now |
| 12:19.50 | freemangordon | disable SR |
| 12:19.51 | kerio | with screen at full brightness, busy cpu, and wifi with no powersaving |
| 12:19.56 | kerio | freemangordon: ooh, nice one |
| 12:19.59 | kerio | how do i do that? |
| 12:20.00 | freemangordon | :P |
| 12:20.08 | freemangordon | echo 0 > /sys/power... |
| 12:21.16 | kerio | freemangordon: and then what? |
| 12:21.23 | kerio | sr_vdd*_autocomp? |
| 12:21.26 | freemangordon | yep |
| 12:21.29 | freemangordon | for 1 and 2 |
| 12:22.09 | kerio | heh, 8mA increase |
| 12:22.31 | *** join/#maemo trx (ns-team@212.200.199.245) |
| 12:22.54 | Pali | Estel_, I saw your mail, but I did not looked at it. Did you try to compile it against 2.6.28? |
| 12:23.09 | Pali | Aoyagi_joytop, so what do you think? :-) |
| 12:23.50 | Estel_ | kerio, use flashlight ;) |
| 12:23.59 | Estel_ | and bluetooth discoverable |
| 12:24.23 | Estel_ | instead of busy cpu, start recording HD video via camera, with flashlight on |
| 12:24.29 | Aoyagi_joytop | Pali: Huh? About what? The boost thing? |
| 12:24.33 | Estel_ | and gps program like modrana or marble enabled |
| 12:24.38 | kerio | right, the gps |
| 12:24.44 | Estel_ | more than 1A power usage easily achievable |
| 12:24.59 | Estel_ | Pali, as per my knowledge, it compiles without problems |
| 12:25.06 | Estel_ | but it's second-hand knowledge |
| 12:25.20 | Estel_ | also, android kids are using it hapilly for more than a year |
| 12:25.37 | Estel_ | afaik people compiled it sucessfuly even for more ancient kernels |
| 12:25.44 | Estel_ | like 2.4 |
| 12:26.26 | Estel_ | without much hassle. IIRC, 2.6.8 should be just matter of compiling against proper headers. Anyway, my mail isn't long, just check it in a second of free time, please |
| 12:26.40 | Pali | Aoyagi_joytop, boost mode (in bq2415x context) provide 200mA/5V from n900 for usb port |
| 12:26.50 | Pali | which is needed for usb host mdoe |
| 12:26.52 | Pali | *mode |
| 12:27.09 | Estel_ | it's probably as much as non-coding person can do to ease your work on including, i.e. sending code, etc. It's in process of getting into mainstream linux kernel, too |
| 12:27.22 | Aoyagi_joytop | Right, thanks. |
| 12:27.51 | Aoyagi_joytop | Now I just need to find out what USB host is, heh. |
| 12:28.07 | ShadowJK | Estel_; I'd compare busyness when running fennec on stock vs ext4, start with same .mozilla/fennec dir. swap on uSD |
| 12:28.30 | Pali | Estel_, compiling some module externally against kernel power is one step and integrate it into deb package second (at deb package compile time) |
| 12:28.39 | Pali | Estel_, sorry but I do not have time for second |
| 12:28.58 | Pali | if you (or soembody) else can provide patch, I can look at it and include it |
| 12:29.14 | Estel_ | Pali, I see |
| 12:30.09 | Estel_ | not that I know what is needed to be done for integrating it into kernel power modules at deb creating time :P |
| 12:30.16 | ShadowJK | Estel_; in general sqlite stuff seems to suffer alot on ext3/flash, so I would expect to see benefit even in Conversations |
| 12:30.23 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, hm? |
| 12:30.34 | Estel_ | busyness of I/O or cpu time? |
| 12:30.38 | Estel_ | re fennec? |
| 12:30.40 | ShadowJK | I/O |
| 12:30.40 | Pali | Aoyagi_joytop, usb has two mode: peripheral and host: In host mode you can connect usb device and in peripheral you act as usb device |
| 12:30.41 | ShadowJK | iostat |
| 12:30.45 | Estel_ | I see |
| 12:31.26 | *** join/#maemo WielkiTost (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 12:31.37 | ShadowJK | I tried browsing with fennec, and had iostat display on another device (via ssh), and nogticed whenever fennec scrolling froze, often I/O was pegged at 100% |
| 12:31.39 | Estel_ | heh, conversation was always fast for me on ext4 and swap on microSD, but maybe iostat will show comparable differences |
| 12:31.49 | Aoyagi_joytop | Pali: Just found a description of it, thank you. |
| 12:31.58 | ShadowJK | well, ext4 in general is faster too |
| 12:32.05 | Estel_ | good point, will try to do |
| 12:32.13 | Estel_ | disabling barriers may help, too |
| 12:32.19 | ShadowJK | how to compare ext4 vs ext4-stride-stripe-align, no clue |
| 12:32.21 | ShadowJK | try bonnie |
| 12:32.50 | ShadowJK | (bonnie++) |
| 12:32.54 | Estel_ | btw setting stride-stripe on mkfs time is enough, no need to use mount time stripe option? |
| 12:33.08 | Estel_ | and what it does? why it's stripe only in mounttime (noob mode) |
| 12:33.57 | Estel_ | fun fact - with journal_async_commit, partition seems to be less prone to fuck up and trigger fsck due to unexpected inconsistency |
| 12:34.16 | Estel_ | i.e. I feel that journal recovery is enough, more times. May be placebo, though |
| 12:35.05 | Estel_ | Aoyagi_joytop, also, get in mind that HEN is older way of achieving hostmode (although, more "manual", so still work on some specific times, where usb-mode fails to enumerate) |
| 12:35.12 | Estel_ | generally, usb-mode is more conveinent |
| 12:35.27 | Aoyagi_joytop | A lot, more, I'd think. |
| 12:35.38 | ShadowJK | I've only once had ext3 fuckup, and it got fucked up by running fsck |
| 12:35.40 | Estel_ | so use it everyday, and if you got problems with any particular device, try all steps manually, via hen or scripts itself |
| 12:36.16 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, but if fsck triggers due to unexpected inconsistency, something is already fckd up. fsck. just fckd more (i.e. whole partition) |
| 12:36.47 | ShadowJK | Nokia stock setup never runs fsck |
| 12:36.53 | Estel_ | basically, if something is fishy, I just re-create partition and restore backup, due to inability to repair anything on flash |
| 12:36.56 | ShadowJK | or maybe they added that in 1.2 or 1.3? |
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| 12:37.26 | Estel_ | no idea, I'm doing it manually with -n (no changes to filesystem) option after unexpected reboots, if any |
| 12:37.48 | Estel_ | especially if device reboots during heavy operations, due to, for example, dying of low-power with bme disabled :P |
| 12:37.54 | *** join/#maemo zhxt (~zhxt@123.125.33.169) |
| 12:37.55 | Estel_ | to see if anything is fishy |
| 12:38.04 | Estel_ | most of the times, recovering journal is enough |
| 12:38.34 | *** join/#maemo FlameReaper (~FR@183.171.160.116) |
| 12:38.44 | Estel_ | if fsck report need for running it manually ("unexpected inconsistency"), I know that it will fckd my partition if I let it to |
| 12:39.03 | kerio | well, this battery can sustain 850mA of draw |
| 12:39.06 | *** join/#maemo phr3akDom (~phr3ak@ip-213-220-198-105.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 12:39.07 | Estel_ | so either restore backup, or be in danger of running into some file screwed. No idea if important one or not |
| 12:39.18 | Estel_ | so i preffer to restore backup |
| 12:39.29 | Estel_ | kerio, liIon can give many C of power |
| 12:39.42 | Estel_ | so probably no problem to draw 5A from it, for a while |
| 12:39.48 | Estel_ | what are you trying to achieve? |
| 12:39.50 | kerio | Estel_: yeah but this is a chinese liIon |
| 12:39.52 | kerio | :) |
| 12:40.03 | ShadowJK | Estel_; I wouldn't generalize it like that |
| 12:40.04 | Estel_ | no matter, liion chemistry isn't racial |
| 12:40.15 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, batteries, or partitions? |
| 12:40.16 | kerio | Estel_: trying to calibrate this battery as fast as i can |
| 12:40.37 | Estel_ | kerio, but you will get lower results :P than you would get with normal heavy usage |
| 12:40.50 | ShadowJK | the high energy stuff like laptop and phone batteries have max recommended draw of 2C at best :) |
| 12:40.55 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, if batteries, sure, it was "mental shortcut" |
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| 12:41.05 | Estel_ | LiFE can give more than 30C safely |
| 12:41.10 | kerio | Estel_: surely only the end of the calibration matters |
| 12:41.29 | Estel_ | kerio, nope, as there is no such things as absolute capacity |
| 12:41.34 | Estel_ | capacity is relative |
| 12:41.58 | Estel_ | if you measure it with 1A draw, that you never use in real life, you will get lower capacity results |
| 12:42.20 | Estel_ | than with using device normally until it calibrates itself |
| 12:42.24 | Estel_ | well, it won't hurt |
| 12:42.39 | Estel_ | just that you will see little less than it can really give |
| 12:42.41 | ShadowJK | Estel_; there's more than chemistry involved in it :) Li-Ion comes from high energy 1C stuff to high power 60C stuff depending on the cell design.. A 60C li-ion in bl-5) size would be far lower capacity than 1200mAh though :) |
| 12:42.45 | kerio | huh, sending zeros over wifi stops nicocam |
| 12:42.56 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, sure |
| 12:43.11 | Estel_ | I just mean that he shouldn't expect it failing apart on 850 mA |
| 12:43.14 | Estel_ | even chinese one |
| 12:43.17 | kerio | Estel_: anyway, not just for calibration, i also want to stress-test this battery a bit |
| 12:44.01 | Estel_ | kerio, btw, relative capacity is why w% 1500 mAh scud run as dual-scud result in ~3100 mAh battery :P |
| 12:44.30 | Estel_ | (lower power draw from every cell due to halved between cells, = more relative capacity in each cell) |
| 12:45.18 | kerio | Estel_: i suppose i'll run yet another calibration overnight at a constant ~200mA draw |
| 12:45.23 | kerio | seems to be the most consistent |
| 12:45.31 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, speaking of that, do we know design capabilities of nokia's bl-5j? |
| 12:45.36 | Estel_ | i.e. "how many C"? |
| 12:45.43 | kerio | the highest load i've got was 950mA, now |
| 12:46.00 | ShadowJK | I should test someday, say, 2A draw down to 25% followed by 100mA to empty, compared to 100mA start to finish |
| 12:46.09 | Estel_ | constant draw is also resulting in less capacity measured than variable one due to normal N900 usage :P |
| 12:46.21 | ShadowJK | Estel_; charging 0.7C is all I remember |
| 12:46.30 | Estel_ | not that it matters much, but, best calibration is one regular, not hasted or slowed down |
| 12:46.54 | ShadowJK | has managed 1.3A draw, without using usb boost |
| 12:47.04 | ShadowJK | but now I have too good 3g signal to repeat that |
| 12:47.10 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, yea. BTW, I'm using 1250 mA charging (for dual scud) since I announced tesdriving it more than half year ago... or more, don't remember |
| 12:47.14 | Estel_ | no ill effects |
| 12:47.30 | ShadowJK | is doing it to single batt |
| 12:47.43 | Estel_ | using it on different devices, also different revisions (2101, and this 2nd less popular) |
| 12:47.44 | Estel_ | :P |
| 12:47.48 | Estel_ | poor battery |
| 12:47.54 | Estel_ | no ill effects, I suppose, too? |
| 12:48.23 | ShadowJK | Well it kinda already was past its best perf :) |
| 12:48.28 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:48.39 | ShadowJK | though still better than original bl-5j out of box |
| 12:48.45 | Estel_ | well, my wanna-be 2A 5V portable charger seems to suffer a little, as it started to give no more than 950 mA. I was forced to switch into regular N900 charger back again |
| 12:49.00 | Estel_ | which gives 1250 mA without overheating or complaining |
| 12:49.28 | ShadowJK | My homebuilt portable charger doesn't do 1250 either |
| 12:49.30 | Aoyagi_joytop | Or exploding? |
| 12:49.34 | ShadowJK | on paper it should do 5A |
| 12:49.51 | Estel_ | I wonder about N900 charger real limits for stable work, for sure are higher than 1250 mA |
| 12:49.53 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, huh |
| 12:49.58 | Estel_ | what went wrong? |
| 12:50.04 | ShadowJK | but the usb cable I cut up was too cheap, drops too much voltage :P |
| 12:50.39 | Estel_ | lol? would quite overheat |
| 12:50.42 | Estel_ | lol? would quite overheat |
| 12:50.45 | Estel_ | or melt |
| 12:51.03 | Estel_ | from 5A -> 1000 mA loss. No? |
| 12:51.42 | Estel_ | Aoyagi_joytop, N900 charger is designed for 1250 mA, so it just lives up to expectations |
| 12:51.49 | ShadowJK | more like 5V -> 4.6V (so .4V * 1A = 0.4W loss?) |
| 12:51.50 | Estel_ | I plan to add 2 usb ports to it |
| 12:52.25 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, but 0.4W seems a lotta hell capable of melting such cable |
| 12:52.40 | Estel_ | or I'm wrong? |
| 12:52.47 | ShadowJK | well we dont know if the other bits and pieces besides the chip is designed for 1250, |
| 12:53.33 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@187.59.151.221) |
| 12:53.43 | ShadowJK | Estel_; it's equivalent to 80mA at 5V, spread across a cable? |
| 12:53.47 | Estel_ | no parts jumping into saturation and desoldering themselves, so it should be OK |
| 12:54.13 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I expected such voltage drop due to one part where contact is low (between internal cable wires) |
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| 12:54.37 | Estel_ | after all, if it isn't half-broken, what would result in such voltage drop? it's made of copper, isn't it? |
| 12:55.05 | Aoyagi_joytop | Uh. What parts of maemo.org are currently -not- working? |
| 12:55.46 | Estel_ | I mean that I can't imagine how relatively short cable without connection problems, i.e. almost-torn out continuity inside, could result in such voltage drop |
| 12:55.51 | Estel_ | made of iron? :P |
| 12:56.03 | teotwaki | or water |
| 12:56.05 | ShadowJK | Estel_; iirc there were 3 strands of copper in it. And I don't mean the thick strands of ethernet |
| 12:56.05 | jonwil | well wiki.maemo.org is not working for me |
| 12:56.06 | Estel_ | :P |
| 12:56.24 | Estel_ | wiki is coming alive and dying all the time |
| 12:56.38 | jonwil | I think all parts of maemo.org are going up and down right now |
| 12:56.46 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, 3 hairs of coppers, eh? |
| 12:56.51 | ShadowJK | ya |
| 12:56.54 | Estel_ | definitely too cheap ;) |
| 12:57.03 | Aoyagi_joytop | jon-kha: It is working for me, but it's oh so slow :D |
| 12:57.24 | Estel_ | well, http://maemo.org/community gave 503 error just a second ago |
| 12:57.25 | Aoyagi_joytop | Browser says 7 B/s. |
| 12:57.38 | Estel_ | premium hosting, after all |
| 12:58.18 | Estel_ | add to this rogue moderators using one touch ban & clean on real people with positive thanks ratio, wandering on TMO... |
| 12:58.27 | Estel_ | eh, I won't get into it again, screw that |
| 12:58.35 | Estel_ | not my problem, anyway |
| 12:58.50 | Aoyagi_joytop | :/ |
| 12:59.07 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@212.255.237.18) |
| 12:59.13 | Aoyagi_joytop | Is there a USB host thingy for Android too? |
| 12:59.27 | Estel_ | sure. Still, android sucks ;) |
| 12:59.33 | Aoyagi_joytop | haha |
| 12:59.52 | ShadowJK | I was tempted to reply to the people whining in alucase thread with something like "well if he hadn't been banned", but it turns out tmo has spies here :/ |
| 13:00.00 | Aoyagi_joytop | Yeah, I enjoy bashing it too, but I still have very little arguments for that :3 |
| 13:00.15 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, heh, thanks for good will anyway :) btw I replied there today |
| 13:00.52 | Estel_ | don't even ask how people look at me when I take alu brick to ear as mobile phone |
| 13:01.13 | Estel_ | (testdriving alucase with only internal finished, external things like layout non-existent yet) |
| 13:01.32 | Aoyagi_joytop | Yeah, I read that before. Must be... interesting to see :D |
| 13:01.42 | Estel_ | (so it's raw alu brick with screen module, externally - only internals shaped, currently)) |
| 13:02.02 | Estel_ | well, even with regular N900 with mugen cover, people took me for ticket controller in train |
| 13:02.09 | jaska | heh |
| 13:02.10 | Estel_ | when I entered it and said "good morning" |
| 13:02.17 | Estel_ | having N900 in hand |
| 13:02.38 | Estel_ | ( was checking something on platform, stopped it when train arrived, and entered with N900 in hand) |
| 13:03.10 | Estel_ | they were really surprised, when I, instead of taking tickets, started to take my coat off, putting baggage on shelf etc |
| 13:03.10 | ShadowJK | Estel_; check a few tickets, then say "must go check something", take ticket with you and go sit in another car. free train rides forever |
| 13:03.20 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, yea |
| 13:03.31 | Aoyagi_joytop | That will get you shot. |
| 13:03.56 | Estel_ | BTW, mbarcode is able to read barcodes from tickets here, in poland |
| 13:04.36 | Estel_ | so I can even scan it as ticket controller should :P |
| 13:04.49 | Estel_ | nothing to check validity against, though |
| 13:05.09 | Estel_ | need to hack into train operator database |
| 13:05.13 | Estel_ | ;) |
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| 13:07.20 | xes | Estel_: ..do you plan to add some space for a termic printer inside the alu case? ;) |
| 13:07.38 | Estel_ | haha |
| 13:07.56 | Estel_ | hostmode - cups server from easy debian |
| 13:08.08 | Estel_ | and usb termic printer... lovely |
| 13:08.20 | xes | :) it would be nice to view some photo of the worl in progress! |
| 13:08.36 | xes | *work |
| 13:08.49 | Estel_ | as soon as I get hands on some digital camera, beside one inside my N900 (thus inside case) |
| 13:09.08 | Estel_ | belive it or not, I'm using N900 as my main camera for few years |
| 13:09.15 | Estel_ | main and only, to be precise |
| 13:09.31 | Estel_ | just because fact that when I see something interesting, I never have camera with me |
| 13:09.36 | Estel_ | but always have N900 |
| 13:09.43 | Estel_ | and raw photos are quite good quality |
| 13:10.11 | Estel_ | it resulted in me not using my regular digital camera for long time, then giving it to someone |
| 13:10.13 | Estel_ | BTW |
| 13:10.16 | xes | I think you are the only one who tried to build something like that case...this means a great love for this device |
| 13:10.24 | Estel_ | tripod mounting point is already there, as only one external element |
| 13:10.49 | jonwil | I prefer my Canon point & shoot (and its 12x optical zoom) to the tiny lens and sensor in the N900 |
| 13:10.54 | Estel_ | yea, for sure. I just hope that I'll be able to finish it before only me and pre-ordering people will want to use it :P |
| 13:11.09 | Estel_ | it ended up in being much more work than expected, as always |
| 13:11.18 | Estel_ | jonwil, understandable |
| 13:11.23 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:11.27 | jaska | full alu? howd you deal with antennas? |
| 13:11.34 | Estel_ | it's just that I never have such things with me when needing it, murphy law |
| 13:11.42 | jonwil | yeah |
| 13:11.48 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 13:11.51 | Estel_ | two concepts for antennas, testdriving one of them for wifi |
| 13:11.52 | jonwil | I use my N900 camera if I need to take photos and dont have my normal camera with me |
| 13:12.15 | Estel_ | 1. separated alu part of backcover acting as antenna booster itself, shaped accordingly |
| 13:12.31 | Estel_ | hopes for increasing signal power over vanilla N900 |
| 13:13.10 | Estel_ | 2. non-alu parts where antennas are, like in N950, struggling to keep vanilla signal not weakened |
| 13:13.24 | Estel_ | I preffer 1st option, as I have some experience in designing antennas |
| 13:13.59 | Estel_ | wifi seems to work ok, quite hard to determine if better in noisy enviromnent, but for sure no worse |
| 13:14.06 | Estel_ | no GSM antennas, yet |
| 13:14.09 | Estel_ | next step |
| 13:14.28 | Estel_ | when I finish all antennas, I'll start designing and test manufacturing outer case shape |
| 13:14.34 | Estel_ | with all reequired holes etc |
| 13:14.54 | Estel_ | and of course connector for hirose u.fl n board |
| 13:15.22 | Estel_ | connected to single standarized mini antenna out on case... Will love to connect it to some of my custom antennas :P |
| 13:15.55 | kerio | Estel_: just use an even number of mirrors to take your picture |
| 13:15.56 | Estel_ | I'm also tempted to use FMTX testpoints, to allow connecting external antenna to it, too |
| 13:16.02 | Estel_ | kerio, haha |
| 13:16.09 | kerio | is only slightly kidding |
| 13:16.51 | Estel_ | well, kind of idea, but I'll, probably, just lend digital camera from someone |
| 13:17.06 | Estel_ | BTW I though, once, about crazy attachement for N900 |
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| 13:34.08 | yana666 | @freenode.net |
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| 13:37.21 | yana666 | @freemangordon |
| 13:39.38 | ccxCZ | since maemo.org is down, is there some location I can install rootsh from? |
| 13:39.54 | Pali | ccxCZ use some mirror |
| 13:40.26 | Pali | ccxCZ: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/r/rootsh/ |
| 13:40.29 | ccxCZ | such as? |
| 13:40.34 | ccxCZ | kthnx |
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| 13:43.29 | freemangordon | ~mirrors |
| 13:43.29 | infobot | i guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 13:43.34 | freemangordon | yana666: ^^^ |
| 13:46.28 | ccxCZ | is there a way to connect to network via usb on stock N900? |
| 13:46.35 | kerio | yes |
| 13:46.46 | kerio | but really, just send the .deb via bluetooth or something |
| 13:46.53 | kerio | if you have no wifi |
| 13:47.03 | kerio | or, hell, use usb mass storage mode |
| 13:48.36 | ccxCZ | doesn't installing deb require root? |
| 13:48.51 | Pali | ccxCZ, you can install deb package via file manager |
| 13:49.07 | Pali | store it to MyDocs via usb mass storage |
| 13:49.32 | Pali | file manager open deb package in application manager which is running as root |
| 13:49.43 | ccxCZ | working on it now, thanks |
| 13:49.56 | Pali | (only apt-worker backend running as root) |
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| 13:53.15 | Estel_ | sorry, got phone |
| 13:53.27 | Estel_ | as for crazy N900 accesory I thought about, once: |
| 13:53.51 | Estel_ | small adjustable mirror, allowing to use back camera for voip call, yet, still see person you're talking too, on screen :P |
| 13:54.08 | Estel_ | of course it was just crazy idea, never took any steps to build it |
| 13:54.43 | Estel_ | would look funny, though, with some arm reaching out of N900's back, with small mirror on it |
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| 13:56.55 | freemangordon | merlin1991: does your rmo mirror still give hash error? |
| 13:58.13 | kerio | how can it give a hash error? have you changed the keys? |
| 13:59.00 | FIQ | it gave a hash error for me too when I tried, actually |
| 13:59.17 | FIQ | though atm I don't really need the repos so cba to try again |
| 13:59.29 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: yep :/ |
| 13:59.37 | freemangordon | merlin1991: :( |
| 13:59.42 | merlin1991 | kerio: the release file is foobar |
| 13:59.46 | FIQ | (it went up yesterday though for a little, and I took that possibility to download picodrive :3) |
| 13:59.47 | freemangordon | do you know which repo works in HAM? |
| 13:59.49 | merlin1991 | all hashes are wrong |
| 14:00.16 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/ |
| 14:00.30 | merlin1991 | that one is the minimal one |
| 14:00.30 | FIQ | I don't know how apt works, but can't you just.. I don't know, disable hash checking, or re-do that file? |
| 14:00.45 | kerio | merlin1991: only because extras is the only sanctioned repo, and nobody uses it |
| 14:00.58 | freemangordon | well, there is a lady on the channel I am trying to help to set-up mirror repos, I am not sure I want her to enable extras-devel :) |
| 14:01.10 | kerio | technically if you install something from extras, and then enable extras-devel, you won't be able to upgrade it from extras-devel |
| 14:01.11 | ccxCZ | yay, worked |
| 14:01.35 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: I guess you're right :D |
| 14:01.51 | ccxCZ | now back up he old system before screwing up.. just dd | gzip the block devices? |
| 14:02.03 | kerio | freemangordon: extras devel is cool |
| 14:02.07 | kerio | ccxCZ: nope |
| 14:02.13 | freemangordon | well, lets try with http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/repository.maemo.org/extras/ |
| 14:02.26 | kerio | ccxCZ: you MUST NOT directly read or write a mtd |
| 14:02.28 | kerio | ~2119 |
| 14:02.28 | infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. |
| 14:02.31 | ccxCZ | what is the recommended procedure then? |
| 14:02.44 | FIQ | that one gave bogus bzip files for me @ freemangordon |
| 14:03.04 | kerio | ccxCZ: install backupmenu, reboot with open keyboard slider, follow UI |
| 14:03.20 | kerio | but be wary, backupmenu doesn't backup your kernel |
| 14:03.56 | FIQ | and thus, restoring to a backup with another kernel mess up the system |
| 14:04.01 | FIQ | which I found out the hard way |
| 14:04.07 | kerio | "mess up" |
| 14:04.19 | kerio | just flash the old kernel from a n900 |
| 14:04.25 | freemangordon | FIQ: what |
| 14:04.26 | freemangordon | ? |
| 14:04.37 | FIQ | freemangordon: ? |
| 14:04.43 | kerio | ccxCZ: there's (almost) nothing you can do via software that will permanently damage your n900 |
| 14:04.53 | freemangordon | <FIQ> that one gave bogus bzip files for me @ freemangordon |
| 14:05.30 | FIQ | freemangordon: ah, when I tried out the mirrors, one gave hash errors (merlin1991's), wedrop also gave hash errors, and the third one which name I've forgot gave bogus bzip files |
| 14:05.50 | FIQ | (trying to update with that repo just gave error "bzip returned with an error code (1)" |
| 14:05.52 | FIQ | ) |
| 14:05.58 | freemangordon | so all of them don;t work? |
| 14:06.07 | FIQ | Well that's my own experience |
| 14:06.12 | freemangordon | but what was that reflash one? |
| 14:06.14 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 14:06.24 | FIQ | Perhaps errors has been fixed, but when I tried, it simply didn't work |
| 14:06.36 | freemangordon | ok |
| 14:06.39 | ccxCZ | Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv71 unknown |
| 14:06.47 | ccxCZ | that's what I got here now ↑ |
| 14:07.31 | ccxCZ | so I guess I should get corresponding images for it if I'd want to restore it later? and tar up all the files... |
| 14:08.56 | jonwil | ok, found a nokia-binaries mirror, still doesn't give me any nice targets to reverse engineer though... |
| 14:09.10 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:10.06 | *** join/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 14:10.53 | Pali | jonwil, can you look at libdevlock and libcodelockui binaries? |
| 14:10.58 | ccxCZ | where do I get backupmenu? |
| 14:11.22 | Pali | jonwil, libdevlock is needed for mce for devicelock, and there is missing header file |
| 14:11.28 | Pali | but there is i386 version |
| 14:11.35 | Pali | ccxCZ, from extras-devel |
| 14:11.40 | *** part/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 14:13.31 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.211.9) |
| 14:13.55 | ccxCZ | got it, thanks |
| 14:15.38 | jonwil | Will see what I can do to produce libdevlock info |
| 14:15.52 | jonwil | libcodelockui already has -dev package so no need to reverse engineer that really |
| 14:16.55 | *** join/#maemo loganbr (~user@adsl-63-204-157-24.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 14:19.10 | freemangordon | seems like ttp://skeiron.org/repo/repository.maemo.org/extras/ is ok |
| 14:20.30 | ccxCZ | what is the most convenient way to install custom chroot? can I reformat the mmc to say ext2 instead of vfat? |
| 14:20.58 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:21.12 | ShadowJK | iirc it wont get automounted |
| 14:21.18 | SpeedEvil | that is true |
| 14:21.26 | ShadowJK | I'd use microsd |
| 14:21.32 | ShadowJK | can manually mount htat on boot |
| 14:21.51 | SpeedEvil | I left the fat as 8g, and put a new 16 or so in the free space |
| 14:23.51 | ShadowJK | has two new 16g microSD cards on his desk to test |
| 14:24.19 | kerio | ShadowJK: the cssu ke-recv will automount everything |
| 14:24.53 | ShadowJK | If anyone wants a "Samsung Essential Class 6 16GB" uSD card, I'll send it for just cost of post :P |
| 14:24.59 | ShadowJK | (it's rubbish) |
| 14:25.33 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.170.85) |
| 14:26.17 | Skry | ShadowJK: deal! |
| 14:27.08 | Skry | Finland? |
| 14:27.14 | ccxCZ | any specific ones you'd recommend? |
| 14:27.35 | ccxCZ | been using kingston and adata ones, kingston died suprisingly fast |
| 14:27.57 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Why such sudden generosity? =) |
| 14:28.34 | kerio | ccxCZ: sandisk |
| 14:28.50 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@johnx.xen.prgmr.com) |
| 14:28.50 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 14:30.57 | freemangordon | wiki: "Couldn't authenticate against garage. (DB problem)" |
| 14:31.02 | freemangordon | how nice :( |
| 14:31.22 | ShadowJK | Skry; ya |
| 14:32.04 | ShadowJK | RST38h; well I bought like half dozen card and not going to ever use this one, don't like its performance |
| 14:34.06 | RST38h | Ah.. Class 6 though - should be fast |
| 14:34.18 | RST38h | Ok, supposed to be fast =) |
| 14:35.22 | chem|st | kerio: ShadowJK sandisk and adata were never in my range after several pendrives before, samsung class 10 32GB and kingston class 6 8BG is what I have for n900 |
| 14:36.07 | chem|st | both cards are pretty fast compared to old class 2-4 nabble |
| 14:36.29 | freemangordon | surprisingly for me (I am SanDisk fan) it seems that this 64GB Samsung performs really well |
| 14:36.44 | kerio | otoh, those class 6/class 10 cards are absolute crap at random I/O |
| 14:37.04 | ShadowJK | The other sandisk I have, "Plus", "Class 10", seems decent |
| 14:37.04 | freemangordon | I'll bench it again in 1-2 weeks, to see if performance degrades |
| 14:37.23 | chem|st | freemangordon: I stopped to be a sandisk fan after 6 broken pendrives, I had 9, 3 are still working |
| 14:37.36 | freemangordon | well, 30% not that bad :D |
| 14:37.41 | chem|st | lol |
| 14:38.11 | chem|st | freemangordon: garage has issues atm so bare with us for not working logins |
| 14:38.16 | freemangordon | chem|st: you should try kingston ;) |
| 14:38.38 | chem|st | freemangordon: I won't 'try' anything anymore |
| 14:39.12 | freemangordon | lol |
| 14:39.17 | kerio | for uberoptimized sequential writes it doesn't really matter, as long as it's a good brand |
| 14:39.21 | ShadowJK | other samsung I meant |
| 14:39.43 | chem|st | I have a verbatim pendrive working for years now and have 64gb of other pendrives/cards... and a 1GB usb3 harddrive |
| 14:39.54 | chem|st | 1TB |
| 14:40.34 | ShadowJK | I've been torturing a sandisk usb drive for ages now, running nilfs2 on it. more or less constant 1.5MB/s write :) |
| 14:40.49 | chem|st | would kill me |
| 14:40.56 | kerio | nilfs2? |
| 14:41.01 | chem|st | 1.5MB/s |
| 14:41.27 | ShadowJK | kerio; was best performing fs when I tested |
| 14:42.00 | freemangordon | is going to retest his uSD |
| 14:42.11 | chem|st | it makes only sense to use external drives (no matter what kind) as long as network is slower |
| 14:42.42 | chem|st | or you need something offline |
| 14:42.55 | chem|st | and that is becoming a rare case nowadays |
| 14:43.43 | ShadowJK | Heh, running squid on that usb flash actually |
| 14:52.07 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@94.25.130.1) |
| 14:58.12 | freemangordon | seems fine to me http://pastebin.com/5nMKQsZs |
| 14:58.40 | freemangordon | keep in mind this is over USB, with swap on the same device |
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| 15:09.25 | kerio | freemangordon: what's QD? |
| 15:09.36 | freemangordon | queue depth |
| 15:09.46 | freemangordon | not that I know what queue is that :D |
| 15:12.01 | jonwil | pali: ping |
| 15:13.24 | MrPingu | wonders why is there a safelist for widgets in /etc/hildon-desktop/? |
| 15:13.45 | jonwil | to whoever wanted info on libdevlock, http://pastebin.com/emnukG4E |
| 15:14.21 | jonwil | damn, wiki is still refusing to work :( |
| 15:16.10 | ShadowJK | 1MB of write/s is damn impressive:) |
| 15:17.19 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I wonder what will be the results if I put it in a card reader. Unfortunately I cannot find mine :D |
| 15:17.50 | ShadowJK | Well, my XP box with card reader gave much higher results |
| 15:18.41 | ShadowJK | btw, I just remembered seeing somewhere that while Class 2, 4 and 6 specify response time for cards, 10 and uhs dont |
| 15:19.55 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I know sequental speeds will be much higher, I am wondering about random i/o |
| 15:20.25 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:20.41 | ShadowJK | suspects uhs cards slow down on everything when run in sdhc host |
| 15:21.07 | Pali | jonwil, thanks! |
| 15:21.27 | jonwil | I hope that's what you need |
| 15:22.01 | jonwil | My guess is that Nokia didn't publish the -dev package for that library because of security (i.e. you could use it to bypass the device lock) |
| 15:22.14 | jonwil | but in our case now we do have the info :) |
| 15:22.21 | Pali | you can use devlock-bin package for that |
| 15:22.32 | jonwil | yeah |
| 15:22.40 | Pali | it contains binary with S bit!!! |
| 15:22.41 | jonwil | anyhow, its documented |
| 15:23.03 | jonwil | another closed library has been given a dev package :) |
| 15:23.03 | Pali | jonwil, it is hard to RE that library? |
| 15:23.19 | jonwil | do you need the whole library cloned? |
| 15:23.24 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 15:23.35 | Pali | I'd like to understand what doing... |
| 15:23.37 | jonwil | and yes it would be harder to RE than it was to produce the dev stuff |
| 15:23.50 | Pali | because I need to implement code into mce |
| 15:24.18 | jonwil | you can call libdevlock from MCE no problems (its what Nokia did after all) |
| 15:24.51 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 15:24.51 | Pali | yes, I know, but I must understand what that functions doing... |
| 15:25.21 | jonwil | why you need to know what its doing if you just want to call it and do whatever stock MCE did? |
| 15:25.58 | Pali | jonwil, I have source code of diablo mce and I'm replacing diablo code with fremantle compatible |
| 15:26.14 | Pali | so I need to know which functions should be replaced with some old diablo code... |
| 15:26.27 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@88.130.214.236) |
| 15:26.31 | jonwil | Having source code to diablo DSME would help with your work I suspect... |
| 15:26.41 | jonwil | but yeah that library is too hard for me to RE |
| 15:26.47 | Pali | ok |
| 15:26.48 | jonwil | its mostly setting gconf and cal anyway |
| 15:26.58 | jonwil | or calling devlock-tool to set things |
| 15:28.44 | jonwil | for reference, the functions in MCE that call libdevlock are: |
| 15:28.46 | jonwil | mce_devlock_init |
| 15:28.55 | jonwil | mce_devlock_exit |
| 15:30.36 | jonwil | and one function that has no name |
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| 15:32.29 | *** join/#maemo jonwil_ (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 15:34.53 | jonwil_ | Have a look at what devlock.c in MCE does |
| 15:35.08 | jonwil_ | that should be a good starting point to figure out what to replace with calls to libdevlock |
| 15:36.04 | jonwil | anything else I can help you with? |
| 15:37.26 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (~doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 15:39.32 | Pali | jonwil, what is state of your vibrator mce plugin? |
| 15:39.39 | Pali | working? crashing? |
| 15:40.12 | jonwil | never got anywhere useful with it |
| 15:40.40 | Pali | jonwil, it is implemented? |
| 15:40.47 | jonwil | cant remember |
| 15:40.56 | jonwil | feel free to use whatever code I posted |
| 15:41.06 | jonwil | but beyond that, I have no interest in touching the mess that is MCE :) |
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| 16:07.02 | *** join/#maemo infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 16:07.02 | *** topic/#maemo is $*.maemo.org is down - see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1314588 || Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 16:07.04 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 16:07.53 | Pauly1210 | Hi, hows mapping on the n900. Is any of the community apps better than the old nokia maps for daily usage? |
| 16:09.33 | khm | yes. |
| 16:09.36 | jacekowski | not really |
| 16:09.38 | khm | I really like modrana |
| 16:09.44 | SpeedEvil | I suspect not |
| 16:09.47 | jacekowski | nokia maps has no competition |
| 16:09.55 | jacekowski | and it's offline |
| 16:09.59 | Sicelo | yup. |
| 16:10.15 | SpeedEvil | it does somewhat depend - openstreermap is good in some areas |
| 16:10.19 | khm | I can't even remember the last time I bothered starting nokia's maps program on the n900 |
| 16:10.26 | Sicelo | uses Nokia Maps + OM Voice Server |
| 16:10.41 | khm | I use mappero and modrana heavily |
| 16:11.48 | Pauly1210 | yeah if it was like the maps on the symbian phones its just clunky |
| 16:11.54 | Pauly1210 | thanks guys |
| 16:12.13 | Pauly1210 | I'll check them out |
| 16:17.49 | kerio | Pauly1210: i quite like monav |
| 16:17.53 | kerio | incredibly light |
| 16:18.02 | kerio | can do *everything* offline, with free datasets |
| 16:18.29 | kerio | Sicelo: OM Voice? |
| 16:19.16 | Pauly1210 | kerio: cool its Qt |
| 16:22.48 | Sicelo | kerio, yes. to give a voice to nokia maps |
| 16:23.00 | kerio | Sicelo: does it add autofollow? |
| 16:23.20 | Sicelo | um, what's that? |
| 16:23.57 | kerio | does it do the equivalent to pushing forward in nokia maps when you pass an intersection? |
| 16:24.27 | Sicelo | re-route? no. |
| 16:25.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | 503 ???? wtf! |
| 16:25.29 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 16:25.33 | Sicelo | i have monav too, but i never downloaded the maps. |
| 16:25.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | who else got maemo.org 503 |
| 16:26.14 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 16:26.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | since when |
| 16:26.35 | Lava_Croft | less than 2 days |
| 16:26.47 | Lava_Croft | i check about daily on your update post |
| 16:26.54 | Lava_Croft | havent checked yesterday iirc |
| 16:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yesterday everything been fine |
| 16:27.26 | Lava_Croft | let's hope its nothing serious |
| 16:27.53 | Lava_Croft | talk works |
| 16:28.10 | Lava_Croft | but i clearly have no idea where what part of *.maemo.org is located |
| 16:28.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | talk is disparate |
| 16:28.23 | Lava_Croft | as i figured |
| 16:28.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | wiki works too |
| 16:28.40 | jacekowski | sounds like overload or something |
| 16:28.41 | freemangordon | does it? |
| 16:28.44 | *** join/#maemo drussell (~dave@cpc1-brom10-2-0-cust341.16-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 16:29.01 | freemangordon | yes, it does |
| 16:29.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe somebody is moving repo to a new path |
| 16:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and took down maemo.org for that |
| 16:29.38 | jacekowski | 503 may mean that backend is down |
| 16:29.41 | freemangordon | but why MO is 503 then? |
| 16:29.52 | jacekowski | so frontend load balance/reverse proxy is running |
| 16:29.52 | freemangordon | aah, I see |
| 16:30.02 | jacekowski | but backend vm not so much |
| 16:30.07 | jacekowski | loads of possibilities |
| 16:30.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no load balancing anymore |
| 16:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | on new infra |
| 16:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | one VM for m.o |
| 16:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | one for wiki.m.o |
| 16:30.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | one for repo.m.o |
| 16:30.51 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: btw did you read #maemo-ssu logs from today? |
| 16:31.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | very partially |
| 16:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | seen the guy from Nokia dropped by |
| 16:31.22 | freemangordon | the key has been found :) |
| 16:31.24 | freemangordon | yep |
| 16:31.40 | Lava_Croft | ! |
| 16:31.44 | Lava_Croft | no shit? |
| 16:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | hope you all were kind and reasonable to him |
| 16:32.21 | freemangordon | I think so. actually the guy was very polite and cooperative |
| 16:33.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | no shit what? |
| 16:33.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, why not? |
| 16:33.13 | freemangordon | just mentioning |
| 16:33.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | not everybody is like djszapi |
| 16:33.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 16:33.29 | Lava_Croft | no shit key found |
| 16:33.34 | freemangordon | (whoever he is :D ) |
| 16:33.43 | freemangordon | Lava_Croft: read the logs |
| 16:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you never been in #harmattan |
| 16:34.20 | freemangordon | well, been there a couple of times, for a couple of minutes :D |
| 16:34.36 | freemangordon | but usually I pester arcean when I join there :D |
| 16:34.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it probably been djszapi who made you quit |
| 16:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* you can find him here in this chan's logs too, long before HARM appeared |
| 16:35.56 | Lava_Croft | the name doesnt ring a negatively sounding bell |
| 16:35.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | asking insane questions and bitching at us when he didn't get right answers |
| 16:36.15 | freemangordon | never seen him |
| 16:36.16 | Lava_Croft | oh that does ring a bell |
| 16:36.28 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 16:36.34 | freemangordon | i've missed the party it seems :D |
| 16:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | like "how do I install xterm?" "it's already installed!" "not here, sucker!" |
| 16:37.17 | freemangordon | really? |
| 16:37.20 | freemangordon | omg |
| 16:37.23 | Lava_Croft | maybe he is culturally inclined to talk like that |
| 16:37.53 | Sicelo | where did pupnik go? |
| 16:39.21 | Sicelo | ~seen pupnik |
| 16:39.26 | infobot | pupnik <PugVader@p54B29D69.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 483d 16h 48m 40s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'. |
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| 16:45.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the guy seemed supportive |
| 16:46.12 | kerio | but the key he found is for some internal thing nokia has, so he didn't know if he'll be able to use it |
| 16:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
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| 16:55.18 | tommis | i today broke my n900's stand thingy? |
| 16:55.22 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 16:55.33 | tommis | were could i get new back plate for cheap? |
| 16:56.32 | kerio | tommis: try ebay |
| 16:58.29 | kerio | for instance, on the italian ebay there's an original one taken from a broken n900 for 6,43€ |
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| 17:04.41 | kgu | is repos still behind the flaky firewall? |
| 17:07.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | right now it seems down |
| 17:08.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it will stay down until Eero/Nemein moved it to exposed-IP |
| 17:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably |
| 17:08.22 | *** part/#maemo XenGi (~XenGi@2a02:748:a800:149:154:158:199:1) |
| 17:08.37 | kgu | they are the 'grid-guys'? |
| 17:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | Seems Eero gave up on the Endian FW and decided to expose the repo IP to internet |
| 17:09.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, basically one of them is |
| 17:09.32 | FIQ | the repository worked yesterday, how come? |
| 17:09.43 | FIQ | it was slow, but it worked :p |
| 17:09.58 | kgu | ok, lets hope it will come alive again |
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| 17:14.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: we had a short time where repo 'worked', immediately after FW reboot. yes |
| 17:15.14 | FIQ | ah |
| 17:15.30 | FIQ | then 50000 N900s decided to DDoS the server, including mine I guess? |
| 17:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: see update12 |
| 17:17.19 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, please look at mail from @nokia. Council or board should answer |
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| 17:29.31 | ShadowJK | the fw sounds like linksys stuff. tcp/udp expire times so high all conntrack tables get full |
| 17:30.44 | kerio | hey, linksys is good |
| 17:30.55 | kerio | perhaps dlink |
| 17:31.00 | kgu | I cant see how the N900s can bring rmo down. They dont try to update at the same time |
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| 17:59.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: in 2 hours |
| 17:59.18 | Pali | ok |
| 17:59.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: had not even time to check mail yet |
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| 17:59.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | meeting now |
| 18:00.28 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, see discussion with nokia guy: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/latest.log.html#t2013-01-25T13:34:56 |
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| 18:26.17 | RST38h | Meanwhile: Unlocking Your Phone Is Illegal Starting Tomorrow |
| 18:26.24 | RST38h | (in the US of course, where else?) |
| 18:27.20 | freemangordon | RST38h: whaat? |
| 18:27.54 | tommis | wat |
| 18:27.57 | tommis | >us |
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| 19:40.54 | kerio | warfare: install cssu-thumb! |
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| 19:41.52 | warfare | kerio: yesterday HAM complained about some repos not working. |
| 19:42.04 | kerio | hm |
| 19:42.42 | kerio | well, you can enable mirrors |
| 19:42.56 | kerio | and disable the "ignore packages from wrong domain" in the hidden settings |
| 19:44.16 | warfare | kerio: that could do the trick, I'll try later. |
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| 20:23.17 | GeneralAntilles | The difference between Maemo and Harmattan: |
| 20:24.59 | GeneralAntilles | Both make simple tasks (decompressing an archive, searching for a URL in the browser history), but with Maemo those things can be worked around |
| 20:25.07 | GeneralAntilles | Harmattan they're just impossible. |
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| 20:25.20 | kerio | they make tasks? |
| 20:25.22 | GeneralAntilles | Want to decompress a rar file? Good luck. (Dumbass) |
| 20:26.05 | Estel_ | Pali, where is the "usual place" for latest kernel-power, and why it's not linked in first post in any kp thread?:P |
| 20:26.55 | GeneralAntilles | kerio, er, make them difficult |
| 20:26.56 | Estel_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:27.41 | Estel_ | sorry for pestering, just wanted to highlight, that from perspective of someone who haven't read every single post of kp thread - unlike the old days - it's nearly impossible to find it |
| 20:28.01 | Pali | here is link: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1305042&postcount=288 |
| 20:28.08 | Estel_ | opening posts of kp threads just beg to have static link to place, where it's to be found |
| 20:28.12 | Estel_ | thanks a lot |
| 20:28.15 | Pali | I wanted to push it to extras-devel... |
| 20:28.21 | Estel_ | yea, I know |
| 20:28.25 | Pali | ...but autobuilder not working |
| 20:28.33 | Estel_ | I think you can forget it for next ~month :P |
| 20:28.36 | Pali | after will be inextras-devel I will create new thread |
| 20:28.40 | Estel_ | autobuilder? devel doesnt work, too |
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| 20:28.45 | Estel_ | and extras, at all |
| 20:28.53 | Estel_ | and few other things, too :P |
| 20:29.18 | Estel_ | and anyone supposing that it will be fixed in less than few weeks is overly optimistic. |
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| 20:29.47 | Pali | Ferenc today fixed garage git repos |
| 20:30.07 | Pali | I got mail and tried to push kp52 to garage and it worked |
| 20:30.13 | Estel_ | nice to hear |
| 20:30.29 | Estel_ | btw, in post you've submitted, same link is repeated 4 times in row, or is it just me? |
| 20:31.09 | Estel_ | well, when it comes to maemo infrastructure - unlike in real life - I'm pesimistic, so I can be only positively surprised |
| 20:32.18 | Estel_ | I start in position of not expecting anything on Maemo infra to work, at all, including this irc channel - or expect it all to break anytime soon - so every line of irc here or every time wiki doesn't fail to load (like it does 50% of times) I'm positively surprised. It's good for health, me thinks. |
| 20:33.08 | Sicelo | hmm |
| 20:33.14 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
| 20:33.56 | Sicelo | after GeneralAntilles' talk about harmattan, this infrastructure move has affected N9 users or not? |
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| 20:35.32 | Estel_ | thanks Pali, going to rock on new kp and updated usbmode, will report about results, sometime in future |
| 20:36.05 | Estel_ | question to anyone accustomed to it - current state of bme replacement is usable for every-day, if properly handled? |
| 20:36.12 | Estel_ | i.e. no showstoppers? |
| 20:36.24 | kerio | not that i've experienced |
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| 20:39.52 | Estel_ | lame question again, where are .item things for uboot or multiboot or? |
| 20:40.06 | Estel_ | it always appeared automagically after kernel-power-bootimg install |
| 20:40.15 | Estel_ | not that I can't create it myself, just curious |
| 20:40.39 | Pali | /etc/bootmenu.d/ |
| 20:41.03 | Estel_ | thanks, noticed this myself at the same time, could check twice before asking |
| 20:41.30 | kerio | Estel_: by the way, peripheral without charging will kinda drain the n900's battery |
| 20:41.43 | Estel_ | 80 mA isnt much |
| 20:41.48 | kerio | 80mA is a lot |
| 20:42.04 | Estel_ | ~3000/80 |
| 20:42.04 | infobot | 37.5 |
| 20:42.21 | Estel_ | 37.5 hours is still more than average notebook battery :P |
| 20:42.33 | Estel_ | also, no one is forced to use it |
| 20:43.07 | Estel_ | just trigger, when you want to connect N900 as client through USB to something battery powered, without vampiric drain on said device power |
| 20:43.23 | kerio | Estel_: just disable the charging and connect |
| 20:43.27 | Estel_ | 500 mA after negotiation is overkill for many netbooks/notebooks |
| 20:43.42 | Estel_ | wut? charging will auto-re enable |
| 20:43.44 | kerio | also, i wonder if it's possible to charge very little |
| 20:43.52 | kerio | Estel_: why is that? |
| 20:44.06 | Estel_ | well, N900, as client, need boost to estabilish connection |
| 20:44.10 | Estel_ | i.e. 5V |
| 20:44.13 | kerio | echo none > /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150x_charger/mode |
| 20:44.24 | Estel_ | = enabling auto mode |
| 20:45.08 | Estel_ | see bq24150 documentation, if I haven't messed somethink |
| 20:45.36 | kerio | then how would this "peripheral without charging" mode be implemented? |
| 20:45.46 | Estel_ | BTW, trick with charging very low is possible, using steps provided by chip (50 or 150 is lowest) |
| 20:45.57 | kerio | oh, wouldn't that be even better? |
| 20:46.06 | kerio | you won't drain the n900's battery |
| 20:46.11 | Estel_ | but if you're sharing internet connection to notebook or something in train, you don't want N900 to draw *any* power |
| 20:46.16 | kerio | usually a netbook's battery is much bigger |
| 20:46.19 | kerio | hm |
| 20:46.28 | Estel_ | as N900 battery will still last much longer than notebook one, by factors of few |
| 20:46.43 | Estel_ | yea, it's bigger, and netbook uses much more :P |
| 20:46.55 | kerio | use the netbook to charge the n900, use the n900 |
| 20:47.01 | kerio | :D |
| 20:47.26 | Estel_ | well, no problem for me, as I don't have netbook, and my notebook is acting like desktop, since I got N900 :P |
| 20:47.39 | kerio | seriously though, how would you implement this? |
| 20:47.47 | Estel_ | N900 + small usb keyboard + usb/bluetooth mouse is my travel kit |
| 20:47.52 | kerio | disable the charging once the connection is established? |
| 20:48.00 | Estel_ | kerio, exactly |
| 20:48.13 | kerio | well, that's kinda easy |
| 20:48.15 | ShadowJK | N900 charging chip lowest charge current setting 550mA, but also input curren limits 100, 500 and 800mA available |
| 20:48.20 | Estel_ | if it wouldn't work, last resort is for N900 to provide boost for itself |
| 20:49.14 | Estel_ | well, when I got hit by bug of "peripherial mode with boost", my device immediately though it got connected to something |
| 20:49.26 | ShadowJK | if you kill bme after connecting to laptop, charging will drop to 100mA input limit in 30s or so? |
| 20:49.34 | Estel_ | and presented me with screen inviting to choose mode (mass storage, pc suite) |
| 20:49.51 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, yes, but after 30 minutes, charging chip or omething will kick reboot |
| 20:49.57 | Estel_ | or 32 minutes |
| 20:50.10 | kerio | ShadowJK: we're using pali's bq24k module anyway |
| 20:50.16 | Estel_ | I remember vaguely, that something doesn't like charging in emergency mode for too long |
| 20:51.33 | Estel_ | kerio, if "just disabling charging" wouldn't work, then, peripherial + boost should work - after all, nothing would drain this 200mA, so only part of it would get wasted |
| 20:51.55 | ShadowJK | nah dunno, I've had various charge script mods for faster charging, and had failsafes that triggered and made my script abort, leaving device without bme or anything.. and device was still alive in the morning :P |
| 20:52.36 | Estel_ | without bme but connected, charging in emergency, with bright orange led? |
| 20:52.43 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 20:52.46 | kerio | Estel_: you probably also want pali's battery applet |
| 20:52.53 | kerio | it is good |
| 20:52.57 | Estel_ | interesting, worth trying |
| 20:53.01 | Estel_ | kerio, sure |
| 20:53.15 | kerio | except that if your bq27k is properly calibrated, you'll want to modprobe -r rx51_battery |
| 20:53.18 | Estel_ | it's probably in bme replacement section of his site? where is his site, again? |
| 20:53.20 | kerio | because it's less accurate |
| 20:53.22 | ShadowJK | bright orange led is the "JK's charge algorithm failed and failsafes triggered" indicator :P |
| 20:53.22 | kerio | ~pali |
| 20:53.22 | infobot | from memory, pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
| 20:53.53 | kerio | there's no section for that, though :c |
| 20:53.59 | Estel_ | kerio, rx-51 is totally inacurrate, as it use "design capacity", which is *never* right |
| 20:54.12 | kerio | Estel_: tell him, maybe you'll be more successful than me |
| 20:54.17 | Estel_ | no idea why Pali use it at all, maybe I don't know something |
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| 20:54.38 | Estel_ | well, early mugens had thermpresistor there, so "design capacity" changed with temperature... |
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| 20:54.57 | Estel_ | Pali, I'm telling you, that "design capacity" is depreciated and shouldn't be used for anything |
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| 20:55.09 | kerio | <Pali> rx51_battery reports value which is not wrong as value from bq27x |
| 20:55.15 | Estel_ | even nokians screwed it, when upgraded bl-5j to 1420 mAh |
| 20:55.39 | kerio | (should read "not as wrong" i think) |
| 20:55.47 | Estel_ | they use same resistor, that was in 1320 mAh bl-5j |
| 20:55.54 | Estel_ | define not wrong or not as wrong |
| 20:56.08 | Estel_ | calibrated bq27x00 is accurate, rx_51 never is |
| 20:56.14 | kerio | indeed |
| 20:56.59 | Estel_ | design capacity is read from value of resistor between BMI and battery -, so whatever is put there, it's design capacity. Some manufacturers even put thermoresistor there, which confuses hell out of rx_51 |
| 20:57.11 | ShadowJK | hm, I should check on my other device where I have new bl-5j, but IIRC they upped the design capacity resistor in it. |
| 20:57.19 | Estel_ | Pali, what madness made you to use it and give it priority over bq27x00? |
| 20:57.41 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I got 100% original 1420 BL-5J from brand new nokia asha |
| 20:57.46 | Estel_ | and it had same resistor |
| 20:57.53 | Estel_ | maybe it differs from batch to batch |
| 20:58.25 | Estel_ | I measured battery to determine if they really upped the capacity, then, I disassembled it |
| 20:58.26 | Pali | Estel_, bq27k chip not reporting correct max values if battery is not calibrated |
| 20:58.43 | Pali | also calibration can change max value only for some % |
| 20:58.45 | Estel_ | Pali, sure - but rx_51 *never* reports correct values |
| 20:58.52 | Estel_ | no matter if calibrated or not |
| 20:58.59 | ShadowJK | Estel_; iirc 1320mAh batt had 1200mAh design capacity :) |
| 20:59.04 | Pali | so you need to do more cycles for better values |
| 20:59.04 | warfare | kerio: cssu-thumb complains about missing packages (libmameosec0, upstart, etc.). I have community, community-testing, community-thumb and extras enabled. |
| 20:59.18 | warfare | any hints? |
| 20:59.21 | Pali | ShadowJK, do you have rx51_battery kernel module? |
| 20:59.39 | kerio | warfare: enable redpill mode, and disable "ignore packages from wrong domains" |
| 20:59.39 | Estel_ | Pali, but rx_51 take "design capacity" from some random resistor, that no one, even manufactures, care of |
| 20:59.54 | Estel_ | They put whatever there |
| 21:00.01 | ShadowJK | Pali; no, I mean as reported by bme |
| 21:00.03 | Estel_ | whatever around 100kOhm |
| 21:00.10 | kerio | warfare: also, how did you install community-ssu-enabler correctly? a mirror for community-testing? |
| 21:00.23 | Estel_ | but it reads "design capacity" from same source - resistor |
| 21:00.33 | kerio | warfare: either have community or community-testing enabled |
| 21:00.34 | Estel_ | it is only thing used to "code" design capacity |
| 21:00.52 | kerio | both are simply useless, -testing will trump stable anyway |
| 21:00.53 | Estel_ | except that no one cares about it and no manufacturer, even Nokia, uses it properly |
| 21:01.27 | Estel_ | Whatever rx_51 shows, is not related to battery at all, it's just "something around 1320" |
| 21:01.29 | kerio | warfare: also, /j #maemo-ssu |
| 21:01.31 | warfare | kerio: Somehow I've installed the cssu-enabler by hand (cssu-testing) and did the upgrade with HAM. |
| 21:01.47 | Estel_ | less or more, depending on higher or lower resistor put there |
| 21:01.53 | Estel_ | Pali ^ |
| 21:01.56 | Pali | if you have some idea how to fix this problem.... you have calibrated 12xx mAh battery, then you change it with 14xx or 1yyy battery, how should design capacity be read? |
| 21:02.34 | Estel_ | Pali, no physical way to read it, just re-calibration. But, rx_51 doesn't help here |
| 21:02.51 | Estel_ | as 1yyy battery manufacturer doesn't give a shit about coding design capacity into it |
| 21:02.55 | Pali | bq27k chip will not increase max capacity to normal new by one cycle and calibration |
| 21:02.58 | Estel_ | just threat it as non-existent |
| 21:03.09 | Estel_ | Pali, normally, it will |
| 21:03.25 | Pali | so what to show? old capacity? |
| 21:03.28 | Estel_ | it won't only, if you change battery by very high values, like 1200 -> 2700 mAh |
| 21:03.32 | Pali | for new better battery?? |
| 21:03.49 | Estel_ | Pali, sure, until it's calibrated. And use *need calibration* flag |
| 21:03.54 | Estel_ | it is exported by driver |
| 21:03.56 | Estel_ | afaik |
| 21:04.02 | Pali | and what to show if you totally discharge battery and bq chip will be reseted? |
| 21:04.06 | Estel_ | chip have flag that shows "need calibration" |
| 21:04.29 | Pali | after that max capacity wil be read from design register which is 2048 (or something) mAh |
| 21:04.32 | Estel_ | vdq is 1 during proper discharge cycle |
| 21:04.43 | Estel_ | so, when chip acknowledge new capacity, vdq changes to 0 |
| 21:04.49 | Pali | Estel_ calibration flag will be deleted after vdq |
| 21:04.52 | ShadowJK | I've never managed to reset bq on purpose by power starvation :) |
| 21:05.16 | Estel_ | Pali, it is 2048, but only if you put battery out ans bupbat is dead |
| 21:05.17 | Pali | but bq chip will not set correct max capacity with one cycle |
| 21:05.24 | Estel_ | so, alongside clock, chip will reset |
| 21:05.38 | Pali | ShadowJK, I was able to do that |
| 21:05.42 | Estel_ | for regular batteries, it will, during 2 cycles at worst |
| 21:06.01 | Estel_ | heck, even from 1300 to 3100 I need two cycles only |
| 21:06.14 | kerio | Estel_: so this battery is only 1420 mAh? :( |
| 21:06.20 | kerio | goddammit, vi____ said it was 1600 |
| 21:06.40 | ShadowJK | has a resetbq.sh for when changing battery |
| 21:06.42 | Estel_ | maybe his relative capacity was 1600 on device, constant current test show ~1400 |
| 21:07.04 | Estel_ | Pali, there is no perfect solution to this, but rx_51 is making things even worse |
| 21:07.25 | Estel_ | not onlynot helping at all, but just outright lying about capacity, taking it from moon |
| 21:08.15 | Estel_ | and consider confusion, when someone use battery with thermoresistor here, i.e. "design capacity" changing every few minutes or hours |
| 21:08.34 | *** part/#maemo brkn (~brkn@HSI-KBW-134-3-171-252.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 21:08.39 | Estel_ | or bug reports, that it shows 1320 for their new, oryginal, Nokia's 1400 batteries :P |
| 21:08.56 | Estel_ | or 1200, as Shadowjk said about design capacity of 1320 one |
| 21:08.59 | Estel_ | it's a mess |
| 21:09.16 | Estel_ | never ever use design capacity for anything, except scarry'ing children |
| 21:09.17 | kerio | Estel_: Pali's battery applet - now including a thermometer |
| 21:09.37 | Pali | so propose solution how to get design capacity |
| 21:09.45 | Estel_ | Pali, there is no such thing |
| 21:09.53 | Pali | which wil work in every situation |
| 21:09.54 | kerio | why do we even want the design capacity anyway |
| 21:09.58 | Estel_ | no thing in chip or battery itself reports capacity (properly). period |
| 21:10.06 | Estel_ | consider it non-existent |
| 21:10.06 | kerio | we want the current capacity |
| 21:10.25 | Pali | current capacity is calculated from design |
| 21:10.32 | Estel_ | w-aaaat! |
| 21:10.49 | Pali | bq chip doing it |
| 21:11.01 | Estel_ | so, my 3000mAh battery, which reports design of 1200, will show 600 mAh left on 50%?! |
| 21:11.14 | kerio | bq27k *counts* the mAh that pass through, aiui |
| 21:11.25 | Estel_ | no no no, current capacity is and always was full capacity - used capacity |
| 21:11.42 | Estel_ | yea, bq counts capacity used, variable one |
| 21:12.04 | Estel_ | ShadowJK can confirm ;) |
| 21:12.04 | Pali | percentage is calculated from current and design |
| 21:12.12 | Estel_ | absolutely no |
| 21:12.20 | ShadowJK | kerio; if it was repeatable (the adc and resistor thermal drift seems to say otherwise), and accurate, it'd be nice gauge of battery health to compare current capacity vs design... On N9, the bq chip has "Impedance Track" thingy which does a more useful thing of comparing battery impedance. SpeedEvil's ohm.sh research path is similar, in determining the useful usable capacity of a battery and getting useful "battery low" thresholds so you dont get surpris |
| 21:12.20 | *** join/#maemo loganbr (~user@adsl-63-204-157-24.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 21:12.21 | kerio | and that's another thing that's dead wrong |
| 21:12.26 | ShadowJK | e shutdowns or sudden unexpected battery low warnings :) |
| 21:12.29 | Estel_ | or my 3000 mAh battery would get 280% |
| 21:12.32 | kerio | as my "110%" charge can report |
| 21:12.36 | kerio | Estel_: yep :D |
| 21:13.24 | Estel_ | Pali, using bq27x00 or later i2c get raw data from chip, I never, ever, saw using design capacity to calculate anything |
| 21:13.27 | Estel_ | over years |
| 21:13.45 | ShadowJK | Design Capacity = battery capacity when brand new. Capacity = current battery capacity. Charge = current amount of charge stored in the battery (where maximum = capacity, maximum when brand new = design capacity) |
| 21:14.01 | Estel_ | percentage is derived from full capacity/current capacity |
| 21:14.17 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, but lets stick to practice, not theory |
| 21:14.23 | kerio | Estel_: just rmmod rx51_battery :) |
| 21:14.29 | ShadowJK | In general, when Capacity divided by Design Capacity is less than 0.8, it's time to replace batt |
| 21:14.34 | Estel_ | how bq27200.sh calculates % of battery? |
| 21:14.59 | Estel_ | you wrote it, and you never used design capacity there, as reported by resistor |
| 21:15.22 | ShadowJK | Estel_; as reported by bq. When calibrated, it's (current charge / current capacity) * 100 |
| 21:15.40 | Estel_ | kerio, rc51_battery get autoloaded after appled installation? need to blacklist it? |
| 21:15.50 | Estel_ | Pali, see? bq doesnt use design capacity for it |
| 21:15.51 | kerio | Estel_: it's autoloaded by the bme replacement |
| 21:15.57 | kerio | it's not "auto"loaded |
| 21:16.02 | kerio | it's modprobed by /etc/event.d/bme |
| 21:16.11 | kerio | but the battery applet is quite flexible |
| 21:16.17 | ShadowJK | "Design Capacity" is ILMD in bq, but the preprogrammed value is silly :) |
| 21:16.21 | kerio | you can do whatever you want and it'll switch after a handful of seconds |
| 21:16.22 | Estel_ | so just need to edit this event.d script, ok |
| 21:17.09 | Estel_ | I respect and admire Pali's work - it's just that using so-called design capacity for anything is wrong, because, as ShadowJK said, it's just silly value not related to reality |
| 21:17.20 | Pali | you need rx51_battery which reporting battery temperature to dsme and pulseaudio |
| 21:17.46 | Estel_ | what? I feel terrorized :P why pulseaudio want my battery temperature?! |
| 21:18.08 | Estel_ | also, couldn't bq27x00 report it, like in good old times? |
| 21:18.14 | Pali | I do not know |
| 21:18.39 | Pali | temperature from bq chip is not battery temperature (this wrote nokia bme devs) |
| 21:18.47 | Estel_ | ok, so couldn't rx51_battery just fulfil those needs, without touching design capacity with a long stick, and messing with battery applet? |
| 21:18.53 | Pali | and I implemeted battery temperature reading to rx51_battery |
| 21:18.58 | ShadowJK | Estel_; if the bq chip had been used as intended, and as OpenMoko did it, integrated into the battery, it would've been properly programmed with ILMD which could be used as a proper source of "design cpacity" :) |
| 21:19.10 | Estel_ | hell! there is no other temp chip in device |
| 21:19.10 | kerio | Estel_: it's just the applet that prioritizes rx51_battery data over bq27x00_battery data |
| 21:19.27 | Estel_ | Pali, only one source of temp indication is inside bq |
| 21:19.27 | kerio | ShadowJK: no it wouldn't've |
| 21:19.33 | kerio | they would've put a random value in, as usual |
| 21:19.40 | kerio | especially the crap batteries |
| 21:19.45 | Estel_ | so whatever rx51_battery reads, it's the same as bq27x00 reads |
| 21:19.49 | ShadowJK | There's a temperature sensor connected to madc, according to the schematics |
| 21:19.50 | Pali | Estel_, not true |
| 21:20.00 | Estel_ | w-h-at? |
| 21:20.11 | Pali | rx51_battery and bme using temperature sensor from madc |
| 21:20.15 | Estel_ | so we got *two* of them? |
| 21:20.30 | Estel_ | ok. Sorry. My mistake. wasn't aware of that, and lived in lie about it |
| 21:20.32 | Estel_ | anywa |
| 21:20.44 | Estel_ | <Estel_> ok, so couldn't rx51_battery just fulfil those needs, without touching design capacity with a long stick, and messing with battery applet? |
| 21:20.48 | Estel_ | still applies |
| 21:20.59 | kerio | rx51_battery doesn't "touch" anything |
| 21:21.01 | kerio | it just reports data |
| 21:21.07 | kerio | it's the battery applet that's in denial |
| 21:21.09 | Estel_ | kerio, you know what I mean |
| 21:21.12 | Pali | all: I'm going to hacking kernel. If you have better solution how to determinate "design capacity" ping me back |
| 21:21.21 | Pali | solution should work in any state |
| 21:21.25 | Estel_ | there is no design capacity |
| 21:21.30 | kerio | THE BATTERY APPLET SHOULDN'T CARE ABOUT THE DESIGN CAPACITY FOR FUCK'S SAKE |
| 21:21.32 | Estel_ | why the hell applet prioritize anything? |
| 21:21.51 | Estel_ | just let users set what it should care about |
| 21:21.59 | kerio | Estel_: it goes rx51 module -> bq27k module -> bme -> bq27k over i2c, aiui |
| 21:22.04 | Estel_ | if someone want to use rx51_battery data for battery applet, let it be |
| 21:22.07 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki_ (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 21:22.11 | Estel_ | hardcoded? |
| 21:22.19 | kerio | probably |
| 21:22.25 | kerio | patches welcome :) |
| 21:22.47 | Estel_ | Pali, better solution, as you asked - either doesn't care for design capacity in battery applet, or at least let user change priorities |
| 21:23.03 | ShadowJK | I agree, UI shouldn't care about "Design Capacity". On N9, the UI does care, but only as far as to display "Battery Health: OK" or something like that. |
| 21:23.05 | Estel_ | so one could set bq27x00 as higher priority over rx51_battery for applet |
| 21:23.11 | Pali | Estel_ I need something as "design" capacity for calculating percentages |
| 21:23.28 | kerio | you shouldn't use "design", design becomes useless in two months |
| 21:23.46 | Estel_ | Pali... |
| 21:23.47 | Estel_ | <ShadowJK> Estel_; as reported by bq. When calibrated, it's (current charge / current capacity) * 100 |
| 21:24.02 | Pali | and then is not calibrated? |
| 21:24.04 | kerio | yeah, i'd use the bq27k fuel gauge |
| 21:24.05 | Estel_ | here are your percents |
| 21:24.16 | Pali | note that CI flag is not enought for calibration |
| 21:24.23 | Estel_ | shit. If it's not calibrated, "design capacity" doesn't help! |
| 21:24.29 | ShadowJK | Pali; you don't really, percentage should be calculated against "last measured capacity". Even lapotops do that :) |
| 21:24.38 | Estel_ | why healing cold with cancer? |
| 21:24.51 | Estel_ | yes... |
| 21:25.36 | kerio | the issue is the usual dumb user who doesn't know what a battery is |
| 21:25.36 | Pali | what about max(bq_max, rx_desing) ? |
| 21:25.43 | Pali | as design capacity? |
| 21:25.58 | kerio | but those will use bme data, anyway |
| 21:26.39 | freemangordon | Pali: you'd better use bq if calibrated, otherwise design reported by rx51 |
| 21:27.10 | Estel_ | freemangordon, design reported by rx51 is even worse than not calibrated bq |
| 21:27.36 | ShadowJK | and "battery capacity" as LMD != ILMD ? BSI : LMD |
| 21:27.39 | Estel_ | or, calculate it in any way you want, just allow user to overwrite priority settings in battery applet, even if by simple text file |
| 21:28.03 | freemangordon | Estel_: no, it is not, for genuine batteries |
| 21:28.05 | kerio | if bq27k isn't calibrated, don't show the charge max and use the percentage from bq27k |
| 21:28.14 | ShadowJK | (use LMD if LMD is not same as ILMD, if LMD same as ILMD use BSI reported capa) |
| 21:28.16 | Estel_ | to allow users set bq27x00 as higher priority over rx51 *always*, if desired. Problem solved |
| 21:28.30 | Estel_ | freemangordon, nope, as said, genuine batteries have it screwed too |
| 21:28.33 | kerio | ShadowJK: what's ILMD? |
| 21:28.37 | freemangordon | Estel_: if bq not calibrated, values reported are bogus |
| 21:28.38 | Pali | if bq27k is not calibrated kernel driver is not reporting any capacity |
| 21:28.46 | Pali | only voltage and current |
| 21:28.58 | Estel_ | 1320 ones got 1200 in design capacity, 1400 ones use same, but some of them, reportedly, say 1320 |
| 21:28.59 | freemangordon | this ^^^ too |
| 21:29.06 | kerio | Pali: it's still reporting the percentage, right? |
| 21:29.15 | Pali | no |
| 21:29.18 | kerio | wat |
| 21:29.23 | Pali | -ENODATA |
| 21:29.28 | freemangordon | Estel_: all nokia batteries I have here report its design capacity through rx51 correctly |
| 21:29.28 | kerio | hm |
| 21:29.30 | Estel_ | hm, strange, using i2cget raw readings, I have capacity no matter what |
| 21:29.36 | Estel_ | even if not calibrated |
| 21:29.42 | freemangordon | ve've verified that on a couple of other devices |
| 21:29.50 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, how do you deal with it in bq27200.sh? |
| 21:29.51 | freemangordon | *we |
| 21:30.15 | freemangordon | Estel_: but it is bogus |
| 21:30.26 | Estel_ | well, zillions of devices using bq27200.sh over years can confirm, that capacity should be reported even on uncalibrated (but wrong capacity) |
| 21:30.53 | Estel_ | nothing more bogus than using some hardcoded resistor put inside battery to determine it's capacity and percentage |
| 21:31.06 | ShadowJK | Estel_; i don't. bq27200.sh is specifically reporting raw bq27200 stuff. The only "modified truth" I do is that the chip reports a flag status for charging/discharging, and I apply that to the reported current |
| 21:31.08 | Estel_ | you could as good screw it and hardcode 1200 as this value into applet |
| 21:31.18 | freemangordon | Estel_: wrong |
| 21:31.27 | freemangordon | mi 1360 reports as 1360 |
| 21:31.30 | freemangordon | *my |
| 21:31.37 | freemangordon | my 1430 reports as 1430 |
| 21:31.44 | freemangordon | genuine nokia |
| 21:31.52 | Estel_ | so wtf is with kernel driver, that it doesn't get same things as i2c can get from bq chip? |
| 21:32.13 | kerio | Estel_: you can still read the "registers" file, it's a text file |
| 21:32.13 | Estel_ | freemangordon, nice. My 100% genuine 1420 bl-5j from Nokia asha, brand new, from carrier, reports 1200 |
| 21:32.15 | Estel_ | so what? |
| 21:32.19 | Estel_ | it's guessworking |
| 21:32.30 | kerio | and it has the raw data |
| 21:32.42 | Estel_ | mugens use thermoresistor, and design capacity can change every minute during device runtime |
| 21:32.45 | freemangordon | Estel_: there is no 1420 mAh in ashas ;) |
| 21:32.50 | freemangordon | it is 1430 |
| 21:32.59 | freemangordon | so, check once again if it is genuine |
| 21:33.00 | Estel_ | ok |
| 21:33.02 | Estel_ | 1430 |
| 21:33.09 | kerio | trolls trolling trolls trolling Pali |
| 21:33.10 | Pali | everybody with kp52 please paste your outputs of: $ cat /sys/class/power_supply/rx51-battery/uevent |
| 21:33.21 | Estel_ | doest it change anything re design capacity being silly value, that shouldn't be used for anything in UI? |
| 21:33.35 | kerio | Pali: it's a bunch of lines |
| 21:33.41 | freemangordon | Estel_: what I am saying is to ise it as a last resort |
| 21:33.47 | freemangordon | *use |
| 21:33.48 | Pali | Estel_, freemangordon, kerio ^^^^ |
| 21:33.56 | freemangordon | Pali: no kp52 here :( |
| 21:34.04 | Pali | ok |
| 21:34.17 | Estel_ | freemangordon, could agree (although don't like forcing it as last resort, would like to keep bq readings or no readings at all, until calibrated) |
| 21:34.33 | kerio | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2086151 , and the battery is *not* 1267mAh, it's around 1400 |
| 21:34.44 | *** join/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@cl-1547.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net) |
| 21:34.46 | Estel_ | as design capacity is just bullshit, not related to reality at all. Or related, if you got lucky, but not physically |
| 21:34.57 | freemangordon | kerio: I guess it is that chinese one? |
| 21:35.00 | kerio | yep |
| 21:35.12 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse_01 (~Milhouse@dslb-188-110-126-121.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:35.19 | kerio | it's a pretty nice battery, and it costs 10USD |
| 21:35.24 | kerio | (shipped) |
| 21:35.35 | kerio | vi____ was luckier than me i suppose |
| 21:35.40 | freemangordon | not here :D (shipped) |
| 21:35.43 | kerio | (calibrated 1600mAh) |
| 21:35.44 | Milhouse_01 | hi |
| 21:35.48 | kerio | vi____: i hate you |
| 21:35.51 | kerio | Milhouse_01: hi |
| 21:35.54 | Estel_ | Pali, second, I'll reboot device to get kp52 modules loaded etc |
| 21:36.01 | ShadowJK | Estel_; amusingly even before bq27200.sh I didn't use statusbar batterymeter, I had a monstrous script that read data from "hal-device bme" every minute and applied heurestics to make it make more sense and be more useful :) |
| 21:36.11 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B492D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:36.16 | Milhouse_01 | sorry, i just recognized that the maemo server is down |
| 21:36.32 | ShadowJK | unfortunately lost that with first dead n900 :( |
| 21:36.41 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I guess once calibrated bq reports correct values. |
| 21:36.47 | Milhouse_01 | is there any chance the get a backup of pr1.3 firmware for n900 |
| 21:36.48 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; yes |
| 21:36.49 | kerio | Pali: it would be neat to have a "flags" dir for easy access to flags and a "raw" dir for easy access to the content of the registers |
| 21:36.55 | Milhouse_01 | :-( |
| 21:37.04 | kerio | Milhouse_01: tablets-dev.nokia.com being down is recent |
| 21:37.19 | kerio | there's plenty of backups, i'm not sure if any of them are public, considering that it's not legal to redistribute the images |
| 21:37.51 | freemangordon | so, what I am trying to say, is to use the lower reading from rx51, until bq gets calibrated, not those bogus > 200mAh reported by bq when not calibrated |
| 21:37.54 | Pali | kerio, I sent bq27k patch with file "registers" to upstream but was rejected |
| 21:38.02 | freemangordon | *2000mAh |
| 21:38.12 | kerio | the registers file is in here, i wanted *more* :3 |
| 21:38.29 | kerio | freemangordon: if bq27k isn't calibrated, don't show the full capacity |
| 21:38.35 | kerio | put a question mark |
| 21:38.41 | freemangordon | kerio: this is the driver |
| 21:38.44 | kerio | oh |
| 21:38.45 | Milhouse_01 | hmm... i'll never buy anything from Nokia again ... waiting for Jolla |
| 21:38.48 | freemangordon | not the bq itself afaik |
| 21:39.03 | kerio | Milhouse_01: it's not like you can buy more n900s from nokia |
| 21:39.20 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; specifically, if reported LMD (Last measured discharge) isn't a value exactly equal to that of LMD=ILMD; and/or loop: LMD=LMD-LMD/6; (iirc) |
| 21:40.27 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: you lost me :). I am not that much involved in bq stuff(like you, Pali and doc) |
| 21:41.11 | freemangordon | but what i have seen to be reported by an uncalibrated bq is something like 2057 mAh |
| 21:41.15 | kerio | Milhouse_01: we're in the middle of a bigass transition from nokia-owned stuff to community-owned stuff |
| 21:41.20 | kerio | confusion is to be expected |
| 21:41.39 | Pali | I got 20xx max capatity too |
| 21:41.52 | kerio | Pali: well perhaps you should calibrate your bq27k :P |
| 21:41.53 | freemangordon | which is insane to be shown to an enduser |
| 21:42.04 | Pali | and because BME turning device off before EDV1, it wss never correct |
| 21:42.14 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 21:42.37 | kerio | freemangordon: so just don't show it |
| 21:42.40 | *** join/#maemo eijk_ (~eijk@e178217031.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:42.40 | Pali | so we should not use uncalibrated max capacity from bq27k |
| 21:42.54 | Pali | and then we should not use % from bq27k |
| 21:43.07 | Pali | (because % is calculated from max capacity) |
| 21:43.16 | kerio | the percentage from bq27k is taken from LMD aiui |
| 21:43.42 | freemangordon | that's why I think it is better to either show rx51 readings (which will be somehow relevant for new genuine batteries) or as kerio says, show "capacity unknown" |
| 21:43.43 | Milhouse_01 | hmm ok. thanks i will see |
| 21:43.44 | Pali | percentage in bq27k is current/max*100 |
| 21:44.09 | freemangordon | until calibrated that is |
| 21:44.31 | kerio | ShadowJK: what's the percentage calculated by bq27k when it's not calibrated but has done a couple of cycles of charge-discharge? |
| 21:44.48 | Milhouse_01 | bye! CU |
| 21:44.53 | kerio | Milhouse_01: hold on |
| 21:45.04 | Pali | kerio, % is calculated by ^^^^ always |
| 21:45.10 | kerio | merlin1991: do you have the fiasco images for pr1.3 somewhere? |
| 21:45.41 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; so, "last measured discharge" (LMD) is the capacity bq thinks battery has. ILMD (I=initial) is a preprogrammed default value of 2000-something mAh. On each valid full to empty charge, LMD gets adjusted based on how much juice the battery had before reachign empty. There's, however, a safeguard preventing "large" capacity adjustments (because chip was designed to be integrated into battery, and would expect small gradual degradation of capac |
| 21:45.47 | ShadowJK | ity, not big steps).. IIRC that limit is 1/6th of LMD.. so, if LMD=ILMD, or if LMD is a value which can be derived by starting with LMD=ILMD and sbtracting 1/6th of LMD from LMD, it would indicate the proper capacityy hasnt been learned |
| 21:46.02 | *** part/#maemo Milhouse_01 (~Milhouse@dslb-188-110-126-121.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:46.44 | ShadowJK | Pali; bq % is not calculated from max capacity. it's calculated from last measured capacity |
| 21:47.07 | Pali | ah, yes I mean that (in kernel there is max and design) |
| 21:47.19 | Pali | max = bq_last and design = bq_max |
| 21:47.28 | kerio | ShadowJK: but it requires a vdq-edv1 cycle, right? |
| 21:47.39 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@d56-215.icpnet.pl) |
| 21:47.39 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-) |
| 21:47.50 | kerio | Estel_: what's the value reported by rx51 on your mugen? |
| 21:47.57 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: thanks |
| 21:48.14 | Estel_ | ok, back, I'm on kp52 now |
| 21:48.31 | Estel_ | kerio, i don't use mugen at the moment - dual scud |
| 21:48.37 | Estel_ | it reports 1200, obviously |
| 21:48.45 | kerio | hm |
| 21:48.50 | Pali | I have there another problem: now hald-addon-bme turn off device when EDVF is set. But I got problem with "enter pin code" when battery was between EDV1 and EDVF |
| 21:48.51 | Estel_ | mugens got thermoresistors there, so design capacity changes with temperature |
| 21:48.55 | Pali | and GSM modem not worked |
| 21:48.59 | kerio | so bq27k's value of 2000 is more accurate than rx51's value of 1200 |
| 21:49.03 | Pali | after I charged battery |
| 21:49.07 | kerio | :D |
| 21:49.12 | Pali | s/before/ |
| 21:49.24 | Estel_ | Pali, what was this thing to cat |
| 21:49.25 | kerio | Pali: not even after charging a bit? |
| 21:49.26 | Estel_ | ? |
| 21:49.27 | *** join/#maemo arcean_ (~arcean@aafq116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:49.32 | freemangordon | Estel_: hmm, why 1200? |
| 21:49.39 | kerio | cat /sys/class/power_supply/rx51-battery/uevent |
| 21:49.44 | ShadowJK | Pali; too low battery |
| 21:49.46 | freemangordon | I guess you got those in parallel |
| 21:49.53 | kerio | freemangordon: it has the value of a single scud |
| 21:49.54 | Pali | so I will change code to turn off device when EDV1 will be set |
| 21:49.58 | Estel_ | freemangordon, yea, but resistor is only one |
| 21:50.01 | Pali | what do you think? ^^^ |
| 21:50.02 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 21:50.04 | Estel_ | I don't use two connectors |
| 21:50.07 | Estel_ | just two cells |
| 21:50.10 | freemangordon | ok, got it |
| 21:50.11 | kerio | Pali: in the applet? in hald-addon-bme? |
| 21:50.14 | kerio | i'm not sure |
| 21:50.20 | Pali | hald-addon-bme |
| 21:50.35 | Estel_ | single scud is 1500 in reality, btw |
| 21:50.36 | kerio | Pali: it would screw up by calibration script |
| 21:50.43 | ShadowJK | Pali; EDV1 (3248 mV) is already pretty marginal for modem. EDVF at 2800 or something is just too low. the modem is getting undervolted and crashing, then getting rebooted. UI presents enter pin code. |
| 21:50.49 | Estel_ | 1400 by design, and 1200 by design reported via resistor :P |
| 21:51.13 | Estel_ | crashing modem due to undervolting may be not healthy for it |
| 21:51.13 | kerio | Pali: perhaps wait a tiny bit after edv1 is set? |
| 21:51.17 | Estel_ | just wild guess |
| 21:51.20 | Pali | Estel_: cat /sys/class/power_supply/rx51-battery/uevent |
| 21:51.24 | Estel_ | kk |
| 21:51.25 | freemangordon | Estel_: well, curse mugen for not putting the correct resistor then :P |
| 21:51.28 | kerio | yeah, we shouldn't get to the brownout point |
| 21:51.45 | kerio | freemangordon: no, mugen has a thermistor there |
| 21:51.48 | freemangordon | or scud |
| 21:51.49 | kerio | even more fun |
| 21:51.59 | Estel_ | Pali, no reason why device couldn't shutdown at edv1 |
| 21:52.10 | Estel_ | bme killed it at higher voltage, most of the times |
| 21:52.18 | kerio | Estel_: to calibrate bq27k |
| 21:52.25 | freemangordon | I wonder why the hell they put a thermistor there |
| 21:52.26 | Estel_ | or, even better, lets shutdown device at sysfs value set by user :) |
| 21:52.28 | kerio | Pali: can you make it wait like 30 seconds? |
| 21:52.35 | kerio | Estel_: hald-addon-bme is userland |
| 21:52.47 | ShadowJK | With japod batt and recent nokia batt, there's seconds of useful life available after 3248mV. With mugen and crap ancient bl-5j, device can last hour or two after 3248 (ignoring modem unreliability) |
| 21:52.51 | freemangordon | Pali: can;t we put the device offline? |
| 21:52.53 | Estel_ | freemangordon, cause they had a batch of those lying around? :P |
| 21:53.04 | kerio | Pali: my (and most) calibration scripts work by charging until vdq, then disabling the charging, then polling every 5 or 10 seconds until edv1, and then restarting the charging |
| 21:53.14 | kerio | all of this with the charger attached |
| 21:53.15 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; historically Nokia used thermistor too. |
| 21:53.26 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; back in nimh days :) |
| 21:53.50 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I see. but in n900 it has a different purpose |
| 21:53.53 | kerio | do you have a reasonable way to make it wait like a minute before shutting down? |
| 21:54.14 | Estel_ | Pali |
| 21:54.17 | Estel_ | POWER_SUPPLY_NAME=rx51-battery |
| 21:54.31 | Estel_ | POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=1339436 |
| 21:54.40 | Estel_ | other lines interesting too? |
| 21:55.10 | freemangordon | Estel_: 1200? |
| 21:55.15 | Estel_ | hey, hey, wait a second. When I last checked there was sysfs entry for bq45... charger |
| 21:55.15 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@192.91.66.186) |
| 21:55.21 | Estel_ | freemangordon, seems it deteriorated |
| 21:55.28 | Estel_ | resistor changed resistance over years of usage |
| 21:55.34 | Estel_ | = this strange value |
| 21:55.41 | freemangordon | yeah, sure |
| 21:55.47 | Estel_ | ? |
| 21:56.01 | freemangordon | rx51 driver is out for 2-3 months or something |
| 21:56.06 | Estel_ | I can check it again after two weeks and you will see it changed slightly |
| 21:56.12 | Estel_ | no, no |
| 21:56.16 | Estel_ | it was readable for ages |
| 21:56.30 | freemangordon | it uses a different formula compared to nokia's binary (whatever the name was) |
| 21:56.34 | Estel_ | via haldon-bme or something, don't remember |
| 21:56.35 | Estel_ | ah |
| 21:56.46 | Estel_ | so, I though about that nokia's value |
| 21:56.57 | freemangordon | don't :P |
| 21:56.58 | Estel_ | as for rx51 it's first time I check it now |
| 21:57.09 | Estel_ | anyway, it's not related to reality, at all |
| 21:57.14 | freemangordon | it is |
| 21:57.15 | Estel_ | nor for dual or single scud |
| 21:57.24 | Estel_ | how come? |
| 21:57.31 | kerio | Pali: what about something even lower, like 3000mV? or would that be too low for the modem, still? |
| 21:57.32 | freemangordon | well, those "duals" are some kind of exotic |
| 21:57.34 | FIQ | if anyone asked about fiasco images, I have one... |
| 21:57.38 | Estel_ | single scud have 1500 as new |
| 21:57.42 | *** join/#maemo jophish (~jophish@cpc2-oxfd18-2-0-cust473.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:57.46 | kerio | FIQ: the guy threw a tantrum and left |
| 21:57.51 | FIQ | ah |
| 21:58.01 | FIQ | RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 21:58.04 | FIQ | is what I have |
| 21:58.05 | Estel_ | freemangordon, even without exotic things, scuds are 1500 |
| 21:58.07 | FIQ | though not public |
| 21:58.09 | *** join/#maemo sasquatch (~username@p4FF2CA43.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:58.10 | freemangordon | Estel_: nokia genuine batteries report almost correct values |
| 21:58.33 | freemangordon | and that value will stay only for 2-3 recharge cycles |
| 21:58.34 | Estel_ | sure, we can expect non-whitstanding support of genuine batteries, for next years :| |
| 21:58.48 | freemangordon | until bq gets calibrated |
| 21:58.53 | Estel_ | I haven't said that your idea is bad |
| 21:59.09 | Estel_ | it's that I see no reason why not allow user to change priority settings if desired |
| 21:59.16 | Estel_ | so, let it be as you said by default |
| 21:59.26 | freemangordon | for sure it is better than reporting > 2000mAh :) |
| 21:59.28 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@200.119.159.32) |
| 21:59.35 | Pali | kerio, I need logs why it report 110% |
| 21:59.41 | Estel_ | and let ones like me, or kerio, or dr_frost_dk, or hal.f maemo, change it to never use rx51 values (battery applet) |
| 21:59.43 | freemangordon | on a cheapu 800mAh chinese |
| 21:59.48 | Pali | without it I cannot fix problem |
| 21:59.51 | freemangordon | *cheapo |
| 22:00.13 | kerio | Pali: the problem is that the design reported for my battery is 1200mAh |
| 22:00.17 | Estel_ | well, as ShadowJK said, even laptops use last measured capacityp now design one |
| 22:00.20 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; Nokia battery management is plagued by legacy. I suspect N9 and lumia are only sane devices. N900 is a hybrid :) |
| 22:00.20 | kerio | when it's ~1400 in reality |
| 22:00.28 | Estel_ | s/now/not/ |
| 22:00.36 | Estel_ | when not calibrated |
| 22:00.41 | Pali | kerio, negative and hight value as 100 should not be reported |
| 22:00.43 | Pali | never |
| 22:01.16 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: sure BME in n900 is crap. But we have the chance to fix that |
| 22:01.22 | Estel_ | well, my battery is 3000 mAh and reported as 1300, does it count? :P |
| 22:01.35 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; well it's not just sw, it's hw too |
| 22:02.02 | Estel_ | ok, so don't fix it by enforcing other crap on users, even for few cycles. Use default for dummies, and allow others to overwrite priorities, even by hidden config file or sysfsentrey or whatever |
| 22:02.18 | *** join/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@host-78-145-87-223.as13285.net) |
| 22:02.27 | Estel_ | hello sixwheeledbeast :) |
| 22:02.35 | FIQ | I'm still very curious how my situation is handled by bme |
| 22:02.45 | FIQ | as I have two different batteries and charge both externally |
| 22:03.03 | freemangordon | guys, imagine, you enter a shop and bye a battery. you put it in the device. what capacity you'd expect to be reported? |
| 22:03.08 | FIQ | (both are genuine nokia batteries) |
| 22:03.21 | Estel_ | freemangordon, so i said, let it be as you proposed for dummies |
| 22:03.21 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: Hi you will have to excuse me (poor inet connection due to snow) |
| 22:03.32 | Estel_ | then, allow others to overwrite priority settings for applet |
| 22:03.38 | Estel_ | instead of hardcoding it |
| 22:03.42 | kerio | freemangordon: who said that it should report a capacity? :) |
| 22:03.46 | freemangordon | Estel_: ask pali for that :P |
| 22:04.00 | Pali | we need % |
| 22:04.14 | Pali | and percentage is caluclated as current/design |
| 22:04.15 | freemangordon | kerio: because it is better to know if you've been sold an 800 mAh battery with changed sticker |
| 22:04.16 | kerio | Pali: % comes from bq27k, and is as accurate as you can get, considering that the design capacity is FUBAR |
| 22:04.21 | FIQ | My experience is that my charge very rarely show "full", though that can be my external charger's problem |
| 22:04.28 | Estel_ | I just want to be able to set it to use bq always, and ignore rx51. SET IT, not demanding it being like that by default |
| 22:04.28 | FIQ | though I don't think so |
| 22:04.29 | kerio | freemangordon: you can't know that until you do a cycle or two |
| 22:04.35 | kerio | FIQ: update to the very latest kp52 |
| 22:04.39 | kerio | (january 2013) |
| 22:04.49 | freemangordon | kerio: you can if only the sticker is changed |
| 22:04.51 | kerio | Estel_: +1 |
| 22:04.54 | FIQ | kerio: hmmmmmm why? |
| 22:05.09 | kerio | freemangordon: this battery reports 1200, but it's 1400 in reality |
| 22:05.24 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 22:05.24 | kerio | FIQ: the charge termination sense is set at 100 instead of 150, maybe it's that |
| 22:05.28 | Estel_ | if we're getting rid of damn bme, lets not do enforcing hardcoded things again |
| 22:05.41 | freemangordon | kerio: so? did you think it is genuine nokia 1430 mAh? |
| 22:05.44 | Estel_ | safe default for dummies that doesn't want to see 2048 after chip reset... |
| 22:05.59 | Estel_ | and configurability, even if by text file or whatever, for others |
| 22:06.02 | freemangordon | kerio: I guess no |
| 22:06.05 | FIQ | kerio: charge termination.. as in the time for when the charging is stopped? |
| 22:06.14 | kerio | FIQ: yeah |
| 22:06.14 | FIQ | i.e. when it's considered "full" |
| 22:06.15 | Estel_ | freemangordon, we're using non-genuine code |
| 22:06.20 | FIQ | uhh but how is that relevant |
| 22:06.21 | Estel_ | instead of genuine bme :P |
| 22:06.28 | FIQ | I use an external charger |
| 22:06.30 | Estel_ | so who said we need to use genuine hw battery? |
| 22:06.33 | kerio | FIQ: i have no idea, it might be a hald-addon-bme discrepancy between stock and replacement |
| 22:06.35 | FIQ | <FIQ> My experience is that my charge very rarely show "full", though that can be my external charger's problem |
| 22:06.47 | FIQ | "external charger" |
| 22:06.56 | freemangordon | Estel_: I am not against configuratio ;) |
| 22:07.05 | Pali | now hald-addon-bme doing this: when battery is not calibrated it calculate bars (0-8) from battery voltage from hardcoded values |
| 22:07.18 | FIQ | anyway, I guess I can update to kp52 anyway |
| 22:07.18 | Estel_ | good to hear ;) |
| 22:07.18 | FIQ | There's just one problem... |
| 22:07.18 | kerio | FIQ: mind you, "full" is a lie, except for like the very minute the charge ends |
| 22:07.18 | FIQ | extras-devel is done |
| 22:07.18 | kerio | once the charge ends, the battery starts to discharge |
| 22:07.20 | Pali | and I think this can be ok |
| 22:07.24 | FIQ | *down |
| 22:07.31 | kerio | FIQ: hold on, is your issue with the replacement bme? |
| 22:07.32 | Estel_ | your idea for default behavior - rx51 when not calibrated, then bq27x00 when calibrated - is sane |
| 22:07.36 | FIQ | kerio: yeah |
| 22:07.40 | kerio | k |
| 22:07.42 | freemangordon | Pali: no other option aiui |
| 22:07.43 | FIQ | kerio: Uh I think I use the stock one |
| 22:07.44 | Estel_ | just let us overwrite it with whatever priorities we feel fancy ;) |
| 22:07.55 | FIQ | "yeah" was @ once the charge ends, the battery starts to discharge |
| 22:08.01 | kerio | FIQ: then "full" is even less of a reality for you |
| 22:08.02 | Estel_ | Pali, it looks good |
| 22:08.04 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@200.119.159.32) |
| 22:08.06 | freemangordon | Estel_: toldya, ask Pali for that :) |
| 22:08.08 | FIQ | I see |
| 22:08.09 | kerio | it takes power to boot the n900 :) |
| 22:08.17 | FIQ | right |
| 22:08.18 | Pali | yes, so "current" mAh is calulated from "bars" |
| 22:08.25 | Pali | in non caibrated state |
| 22:08.25 | kerio | and bme doesn't really know wtf to do with a newly-inserted battery |
| 22:08.30 | *** join/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@cl-1547.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net) |
| 22:08.39 | freemangordon | kerio: neither is bq :) |
| 22:08.43 | freemangordon | aiui |
| 22:08.44 | FIQ | Oh well, just wondering what it tries to report |
| 22:08.49 | Estel_ | Pali, good idea, but why make yourself trouble by coding that, instead of just exporting priorities to be configurable by user? |
| 22:09.07 | FIQ | as my batteries, while theoretically being the same, have different life lengths and probably different charges in practice |
| 22:09.25 | Estel_ | Pali, even by single hidden file, we won't tell anyone :P |
| 22:09.33 | freemangordon | Estel_: wh should have some sane values reporteb to not-that-smart users :) |
| 22:09.39 | freemangordon | *we |
| 22:09.54 | Estel_ | freemangordon, so we have "sane" rx51 now reported to less smart users |
| 22:10.05 | FIQ | and I happily swap them every charge, they essentially never stay in the N900 for more than one charge as I never charge on the N900 |
| 22:10.16 | freemangordon | Pali was talking about bars and charge |
| 22:10.23 | Estel_ | smart ones can do config change. Or code it, if you want, no problem with it - just don't sacrifice configurability |
| 22:10.31 | Pali | in hald-addon-bme is this code: if (capacity < 0) capacity = 0; else if (capacity > 100) capacity = 100; |
| 22:10.39 | Pali | so 110 % is impossible ^^^ |
| 22:10.39 | Estel_ | bars are nice, as long as we can disable them :P |
| 22:11.14 | freemangordon | Estel_: well, i propose that for some future version |
| 22:11.16 | FIQ | having an accurate % showing would probably be impossible for me, but it would be nice anyway :p |
| 22:11.28 | Estel_ | whatever you will do will be good, as long as one can set up - even by config file - to use bq27x00 and screw rest |
| 22:11.31 | freemangordon | lets have everything in place (as logic) i guess it can be tweaked later on |
| 22:11.38 | Estel_ | freemangordon, why not |
| 22:11.47 | Pali | kerio ^^^^^ |
| 22:11.52 | kerio | i agree |
| 22:12.06 | Estel_ | :) |
| 22:12.12 | kerio | although i still think that the default behaviour when facing a calibrated bq27200 should be to blindly report what it reports |
| 22:12.13 | Estel_ | now tell me you all missed me :P |
| 22:12.28 | Estel_ | kerio, enough :P |
| 22:12.53 | Estel_ | even if I agree :P |
| 22:12.55 | kerio | because a calibrated bq27200 IS THE LAW |
| 22:13.04 | kerio | like judge dredd |
| 22:14.22 | freemangordon | kerio: I guess Pali is doing that not only for you and Estel_ :P. And if I got it right, CSSU is the long-term goal. Thus we MUST think for guys and gals who have NFC what bq or rx51 is |
| 22:14.38 | Estel_ | until you calibrated it with low usage, and then, do constant 1A power draw - battery will die, while reporting 600 mAh still left : |
| 22:15.02 | kerio | Estel_: i usually calibrate with ~200mA of constant draw |
| 22:15.03 | freemangordon | kerio: BTW did you manage to go over 470 mA? |
| 22:15.19 | kerio | freemangordon: camera, torch, gps, wifi, cpu |
| 22:15.25 | kerio | i got to 950mA |
| 22:15.25 | kerio | :D |
| 22:15.30 | freemangordon | nice :D |
| 22:15.34 | kerio | for a bit |
| 22:15.51 | ShadowJK | FIQ; bme has voltage curve thresholds. Primarily it tracks by counting current in/out, within specific voltage profile of a specific profiled battery. If battery is fresher or older than the profile (fixed profile, not adjustable), the reported charge level either freezes or makes a big jump. In border cases you get funny behaviour like hundred percent forever until empty :) |
| 22:16.06 | xes | kerio: ..with torch application? |
| 22:16.13 | Estel_ | freemangordon, sure. That's why I said configurability as an option, not enforcing anyone |
| 22:16.24 | FIQ | ShadowJK: I see |
| 22:16.32 | Estel_ | xes, torch is quite power-savyy |
| 22:16.57 | kerio | xes: with cssu's nicocam |
| 22:17.01 | FIQ | the light draws much power? |
| 22:17.01 | kerio | push t |
| 22:17.02 | Estel_ | one need recording video in hd (camera + cpu + dsp usage), gps, bluetooth, wifi without power saving, screen on at max brightness |
| 22:17.04 | Estel_ | etc |
| 22:17.06 | Estel_ | + torch |
| 22:17.12 | Estel_ | to get above 1A |
| 22:17.26 | Estel_ | light is around 100mA IIRC |
| 22:17.39 | freemangordon | ooh, camera focus is about 100mA too, iirc |
| 22:17.43 | SpeedEvil | and download a file over 3g |
| 22:17.46 | Estel_ | which makes N900 a 30h flashlight with dual-scud |
| 22:17.54 | SpeedEvil | with the vibrator on |
| 22:17.55 | kerio | heh, i didn't really want to stress the system *too* much |
| 22:18.05 | kerio | vibrator and camera focus engine all firing up at the same time |
| 22:18.06 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, or send zeroes or urandom through 3G :P |
| 22:18.11 | freemangordon | kerio: why not, don;t you have a second device? :P |
| 22:18.23 | kerio | freemangordon: i should really do something with that one |
| 22:18.28 | Estel_ | lets write app "battery killer" |
| 22:18.34 | Estel_ | that enables everything at once |
| 22:18.39 | Estel_ | and keeps it that way |
| 22:18.48 | xes | there is way to measure the usb host mode current? |
| 22:18.55 | Estel_ | sure |
| 22:18.58 | kerio | xes: 200mA |
| 22:18.59 | kerio | flat |
| 22:19.03 | kerio | ...kinda |
| 22:19.03 | Estel_ | check what bq27x00 reports |
| 22:19.04 | freemangordon | Estel_: I think it is way easier to use a hammer to kill the battery :D |
| 22:19.18 | Estel_ | freemangordon, as a discharge tool |
| 22:19.24 | Estel_ | + activate it via ssh |
| 22:19.28 | Estel_ | to scarry people |
| 22:19.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: no, you can't measure VBUS-BOOST |
| 22:19.45 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, increased usage is shown as difference in current-now |
| 22:19.47 | *** join/#maemo Muelli (~muelli@46.59.215.175) |
| 22:19.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can detect overcurrent cutout condition though, which will happen at 200mA |
| 22:19.55 | Estel_ | mA draw of devixe changes |
| 22:20.13 | Estel_ | with known values without device attached, one can measure how much device attached uses |
| 22:20.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but that will usually dissolve in noise of normal powerconsumption of device |
| 22:20.30 | xes | i'm playing with an rtl-sdr receiver dongle but sometimes hangs ..i was supposing it was a problem with the usb current.. |
| 22:20.37 | Estel_ | s/devixe/device |
| 22:21.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: use a powerd hub |
| 22:21.13 | kerio | xes: put a powered usb hub between the receiver and the n900 |
| 22:21.18 | Estel_ | or y-cable |
| 22:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-P |
| 22:21.22 | kerio | or a y-cable, yes |
| 22:21.28 | kerio | goddammit guys stop typing so fast |
| 22:21.33 | Estel_ | my y-cable got name, even |
| 22:21.38 | Estel_ | "Hammer of Thor" |
| 22:21.47 | Estel_ | need to see it to understand |
| 22:22.03 | kerio | sometimes uses two y-cables to draw 1A from a computer |
| 22:22.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | my Y-cable got a anme as well: Joerg's Y-cable (invented in 2008 iirc, for Openmoko) |
| 22:22.20 | Estel_ | ...and you end up drawing 200 mA |
| 22:22.21 | xes | i'll try..but the fun would be a complete portable sdr receiver ;) |
| 22:22.26 | Estel_ | due to lack of negotiation |
| 22:22.56 | Estel_ | whatever sdr is |
| 22:22.56 | kerio | Estel_: nah, my laptop and/or os x aren't picky |
| 22:23.05 | kerio | xes: battery pack? |
| 22:23.14 | Estel_ | doesn't matter, usb specification won't let it |
| 22:23.14 | kerio | there's very little you can do, if 200mA aren't enough |
| 22:23.24 | kerio | Estel_: apple doesn't care about your puny specifications |
| 22:23.26 | Estel_ | battery pack is cheap |
| 22:23.34 | kerio | or something |
| 22:23.36 | xes | SDR? http://superkuh.com/rtlsdr.html |
| 22:23.37 | Estel_ | and 5V stabilizer is free from maxim |
| 22:23.38 | *** join/#maemo Ijon_Tichy (~username@p4FF2CA43.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:24.57 | kerio | xes: neat! |
| 22:25.17 | Estel_ | xes, looks neat, but what does it do? |
| 22:25.22 | Estel_ | what samples over what? |
| 22:25.33 | Estel_ | radio amateur? |
| 22:25.38 | Pali | Estel_, kerio, freemangordon: create wiki package and possible solutions what to show in battery widget and how to calculate it |
| 22:25.51 | Pali | also what should hald-addon-bme report |
| 22:25.55 | Estel_ | wiki works @ 7b/s for me |
| 22:26.04 | Pali | and what should be "0" as unknown value |
| 22:26.04 | Estel_ | so expect it in dawn of 2015 |
| 22:26.12 | kerio | Pali: would you be ok with not displaying a capacity in some situations? |
| 22:26.32 | freemangordon | Pali: would you mind to put what's curren in cssu-devel? |
| 22:26.37 | freemangordon | *current |
| 22:26.44 | Pali | kerio, percentage must be always reported |
| 22:26.55 | kerio | i meant capacity as in max capacity |
| 22:26.55 | Pali | unknown design capacity is "0" |
| 22:26.57 | kerio | the number after / |
| 22:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | announcing service downtime of... DocScrutinizer05 |
| 22:27.06 | Pali | yes, it can be 0 |
| 22:27.08 | xes | Estel: yes.... imagine you can receive any kind of signal....and decode with a software block of code.. |
| 22:27.11 | kerio | waves |
| 22:27.14 | kerio | take care doc |
| 22:27.18 | kerio | and sleep! |
| 22:27.23 | Hurrian | Pali, for user experience sake, could you set Design Capacity to 1300? |
| 22:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | live! |
| 22:27.28 | Estel_ | xes, what, cryptography? |
| 22:27.30 | Hurrian | (if unset) |
| 22:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | sleep is overrated |
| 22:27.37 | freemangordon | Hurrian: why? |
| 22:27.42 | kerio | sleep is overrated until you're tired ;) |
| 22:27.45 | freemangordon | that is what BME does |
| 22:27.51 | Hurrian | freemangordon, ah |
| 22:27.56 | freemangordon | and it drives me nuts |
| 22:27.57 | freemangordon | :D |
| 22:27.59 | Estel_ | xes, cryptography over analog (or digital?) radio signal? |
| 22:28.08 | Pali | for now I wil not touch desing/max capacity code in status applet and hald-addon-bme |
| 22:28.13 | xes | Estel: the limit is fantasy and... cpu power |
| 22:28.15 | freemangordon | Hurrian: well, 1260, but it is the same |
| 22:28.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I had lots of it since yesterday, none since monday before that |
| 22:28.28 | Pali | create wiki page with solutions and we can discuss about variants |
| 22:28.38 | Estel_ | xes, whoa, interesting, so it's kind of long-range wifi, just low on speed? |
| 22:28.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: but my mind need a defragmentation |
| 22:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | so: o/ |
| 22:29.08 | Estel_ | cpu power of computer, or of dongle chip? |
| 22:29.11 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 22:29.14 | freemangordon | Pali: push the current version in cssu-devel please, so we can work on changes/improvements based on some real-life scenarios |
| 22:29.20 | Hurrian | I was simply thinking, if replacement BME plus open battery module gets pushed into mainline CSSU, there'll be an entire storm of people bitching about their battery always being at 0% |
| 22:29.32 | Pali | freemangordon, last version is in cssu-devel |
| 22:29.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, for the friggin bot: |
| 22:29.44 | Pali | of status applet |
| 22:29.45 | kerio | Hurrian: nah, we want to avoid that |
| 22:29.46 | kerio | :) |
| 22:29.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: but my mind need a defragmentation, so o/ |
| 22:30.04 | kerio | ~seen DocScrutinizer05 |
| 22:30.09 | infobot | docscrutinizer05 is currently on #maemo #n9 #harmattan #meego #openmoko #maemo-ssu #infobot #openmoko-cdevel. Has said a total of 49 messages. Is idling for 20s, last said: 'kerio: but my mind need a defragmentation, so o/'. |
| 22:30.09 | freemangordon | Pali: aah, the one I deinstalled because of unusable bars with BME? :) |
| 22:30.09 | Pali | it should be version 1.0-2 |
| 22:30.41 | xes | Estel: with that dongles you can receive from about 60MHz to 2000MHz... and decode any kind of modulation or signal |
| 22:30.49 | xes | bye DocScrutinizer05! |
| 22:31.23 | Estel_ | xes, whoa |
| 22:31.36 | Estel_ | need to read more about it, looks like my kind of heaven for modder |
| 22:31.40 | freemangordon | waves |
| 22:31.44 | kerio | xes: how can you send stuff, though? |
| 22:31.51 | Estel_ | ~60 mhz should be quite long-range capable |
| 22:32.01 | Estel_ | kerio, those dongles send it |
| 22:32.07 | Estel_ | instead of receiving |
| 22:32.07 | kerio | oh |
| 22:32.10 | kerio | ...oh |
| 22:32.12 | Estel_ | when properly treated |
| 22:32.14 | kerio | OH! |
| 22:32.31 | Estel_ | with simple mod (very easy) and kernel modules and userland bits, approriate |
| 22:32.42 | Estel_ | using this on the go with N900 |
| 22:32.49 | Estel_ | = more than mesh network |
| 22:32.54 | kerio | Estel_: maybe you can |
| 22:33.02 | kerio | with your bigass battery |
| 22:33.07 | xes | no kernel modules... only libs reading directly from usb |
| 22:33.13 | Estel_ | just make yourself liIon belt |
| 22:33.19 | Estel_ | xes, lol |
| 22:33.23 | Estel_ | even better |
| 22:33.36 | kerio | Estel_: played minecraft ftb lately? :D |
| 22:33.43 | xes | until i'm receiving fm radio...and fmtx :) |
| 22:33.47 | Estel_ | kerio, buy batteries best in price/capacity ration, and prepare bracelet/belt |
| 22:33.55 | Estel_ | 20 000mAh in your belt :P |
| 22:34.23 | Estel_ | kerio, I ot only vague idea of what minecraft is |
| 22:34.41 | kerio | a game where you go around and build things |
| 22:34.49 | kerio | there's a popular modpack that adds a bunch of tecnical things |
| 22:34.52 | Estel_ | xes, receiving and transmitting fm via those dongles is fun, but sending digital radio signal is more fun |
| 22:35.09 | kerio | including a bigass battery pack that you can wear instead of your chestplate, to automatically charge the electrical tools you use |
| 22:35.13 | Estel_ | kerio, make it work on N900, the open source version :P |
| 22:35.20 | Estel_ | in multiplayer |
| 22:35.24 | SpeedEvil | has a 528000mAh 'USB battery' |
| 22:35.28 | kerio | i know some of the minetest dudes |
| 22:35.30 | Estel_ | we have too few online multiplayer games for N900 |
| 22:35.33 | kerio | (minecraft clone) |
| 22:35.34 | SpeedEvil | it is not very portable. |
| 22:35.47 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, @ what voltage? |
| 22:35.53 | SpeedEvil | 5v |
| 22:36.03 | kerio | Estel_: anyway, scuds are still 20€/piece, or something, right? |
| 22:36.10 | Estel_ | 528A? and it weight ten kilos? |
| 22:36.13 | SpeedEvil | it's really 2*12v*110ah, with a SMPS |
| 22:36.21 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: no, not 10kg |
| 22:36.23 | Estel_ | kerio, yes, but buying new, I recommend polarcell |
| 22:36.28 | kerio | right |
| 22:36.32 | Estel_ | some claims new ones are 1700 mAh |
| 22:36.41 | kerio | but there's a 10€ battery on aliexpress that's still decent :D |
| 22:36.51 | kerio | vi____ got a 1600mAh one |
| 22:37.02 | Estel_ | kerio, price/quality battery for belt should cost around 3 euro |
| 22:37.07 | Estel_ | if bl-5j |
| 22:37.13 | Estel_ | but for belt you can use other types |
| 22:37.18 | Estel_ | with better density |
| 22:37.25 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, seriously, how much it weight? |
| 22:37.39 | Estel_ | and 528A is after taking into account conversion losses? |
| 22:37.41 | kerio | Estel_: i'm still waiting for the case redesign for the two 18650s, btw |
| 22:38.07 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: knock off 10*ish |
| 22:38.10 | Estel_ | kerio, wait hapilly, it's proving so irritating, that I'm thinking about dropping it in favor of 3 flat batteries |
| 22:38.12 | SpeedEvil | 10% |
| 22:38.28 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: maybe 40kg |
| 22:38.35 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, I see. How much it weight, approxi...? |
| 22:38.40 | Estel_ | lol |
| 22:38.55 | Estel_ | I though "no, no 10kg" was about that it's less heavy :P |
| 22:39.00 | SpeedEvil | it's got a raspberry pi plugged into it |
| 22:39.14 | SpeedEvil | and a 750w ups |
| 22:39.22 | Estel_ | your pi is going to get quite overweight fedding into it |
| 22:39.39 | Estel_ | kerio, btw |
| 22:39.49 | Estel_ | do you have any random 18650of whatever state |
| 22:39.54 | Estel_ | living or not |
| 22:40.02 | Estel_ | to send me for some tests? |
| 22:40.11 | kerio | nope |
| 22:40.22 | kerio | i'm not a hardware guy at all |
| 22:40.23 | Estel_ | damn, will need to scavenge some |
| 22:40.33 | Estel_ | from old battery or whatever |
| 22:40.43 | Estel_ | thickness it's not problem |
| 22:40.49 | Estel_ | they're just little too long |
| 22:41.12 | Estel_ | hard to put them there, considering secondary board with camera, even in V configuration |
| 22:41.29 | kerio | Estel_: what about shorter batteries? |
| 22:41.29 | Estel_ | well, will give it some more love |
| 22:41.52 | Estel_ | shorted would do it, but 14... ones doesn't have benefits of 18 |
| 22:42.02 | Estel_ | more expensive, less popular etc |
| 22:42.13 | Estel_ | so they stop being better than flat ones, at all |
| 22:42.34 | Estel_ | choosing between two 14... and 3 flatties, I take 3 flatties |
| 22:42.48 | Estel_ | althoug 18650 x 2 own even 3 flatties |
| 22:42.57 | kerio | Estel_: what can you do with the space of the stock cover? |
| 22:43.10 | kerio | say, something that fits inside an otterbox |
| 22:43.22 | *** join/#maemo q_plaz2 (~q_plaz@host-194-143-3-96.midco.net) |
| 22:43.22 | Estel_ | stock covera? nothing, if it comes to battery |
| 22:43.30 | kerio | :( |
| 22:43.34 | Estel_ | jst better kickstand |
| 22:43.36 | kerio | is it *that* tightly packed? |
| 22:43.39 | Estel_ | etc |
| 22:44.03 | *** part/#maemo q_plaz2 (~q_plaz@host-194-143-3-96.midco.net) |
| 22:44.04 | Estel_ | well, look at your n900 with stock cover, where you want to put another battery |
| 22:44.07 | xes | Estel_: http://www.g0hww.net/2012/06/rtl-sdr-port-of-gr-air-modes-feeding.html |
| 22:44.22 | Estel_ | if you mean body replacement, it will have all goddies in space of stock cover... |
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| 22:44.27 | Estel_ | except battery |
| 22:44.28 | FIQ | i've considered buying higher capacity batteries, but now that I have an external charger with not so optimal layout, there's no point |
| 22:44.41 | Estel_ | xes, thanks |
| 22:45.07 | xes | ;) feel the fantasy growing |
| 22:46.23 | Estel_ | hole shit, 137 miles |
| 22:46.41 | Estel_ | holy* |
| 22:47.08 | Estel_ | I just hope that enough talented coders work on userland coding/decoding bits for it |
| 22:47.54 | Estel_ | I wonder, btw, how high thoroughtput (bytes per second) for wireless communication would be achievable through it |
| 22:48.14 | Estel_ | even if it would work for 10 miles reliably, it would be nice revolution for mesh networks |
| 22:48.34 | xes | it is only a receiver.. |
| 22:48.46 | xes | no transmission |
| 22:48.48 | Estel_ | and "we" would be ready to recreate free internet, when "they" take control over it ;) |
| 22:48.50 | Estel_ | I know |
| 22:48.53 | Estel_ | but |
| 22:49.11 | Estel_ | transmission is also possible, or not? that is how I understood it from first link |
| 22:49.25 | Estel_ | "sending 8bit samples at frequencies..." etc |
| 22:49.40 | xes | not with a 6 euro device :) |
| 22:49.48 | futpib_ | so powerfull transmitter on usb-power, no way |
| 22:50.14 | Estel_ | still, receiving capabilities are quite amazing |
| 22:51.03 | xes | in a few days i'll post all the packages compiled fot the n900 |
| 22:51.11 | xes | *for |
| 22:51.16 | Estel_ | whoa, nice |
| 22:51.41 | Estel_ | just ping me with link if possible (or PM on TMO, if it will still work and I won't get banned in my sleep) |
| 22:52.11 | Estel_ | next step - receiving signal from ISS ;) |
| 22:53.24 | xes | someone has already received the iss with this... |
| 22:53.54 | ShadowJK | Ugh, i've got massive backlog here. I'll reply in order, and apologies for redundant replies... |
| 22:54.33 | ShadowJK | FIQ: Boot-time bme current charge level (reporting.current) is pure guess. It's +-20% in best case. |
| 22:56.05 | ShadowJK | Pali, not calibrated, battery bars from voltage, sounds like one half of bme's current algo (which is half current based and half voltage based :)) |
| 22:56.19 | ShadowJK | (good approach overall tho for uncalibrated sensors) |
| 22:58.26 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@190.143.179.31) |
| 22:58.49 | ShadowJK | FIQ, in theory, accurate metering for your batteries (and constant swapping) would be possible, but it would be alot of work, and prone to error :) |
| 22:59.01 | ShadowJK | (tl:dr; not worth the effort) |
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| 23:02.46 | FIQ | ok |
| 23:04.34 | ShadowJK | On diablo I do this: Measure instantaneous current every 1s, integrate that. If accumulated value < 0, set value to 0. If voltage < 3400, set value to 0. If value > (user determined maximum capacity), set value to maximum user determined capacity. |
| 23:04.48 | ShadowJK | It tends to drift upwards :( |
| 23:05.02 | ShadowJK | Which is why I have max capa thing |
| 23:05.20 | SpeedEvil | 5 seconds |
| 23:05.27 | ShadowJK | Diablo |
| 23:05.31 | SpeedEvil | the ADC polls every 5.12s IIRC |
| 23:05.33 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 23:05.33 | ShadowJK | does not run on N900 |
| 23:05.34 | SpeedEvil | nvm |
| 23:05.38 | SpeedEvil | sortty |
| 23:05.48 | Estel_ | xes, just add strong, directional transmitter, and build radar :) |
| 23:06.10 | Estel_ | thing with planes is half of it, already |
| 23:06.17 | Estel_ | based on receiving |
| 23:06.40 | ShadowJK | On N800 max capa is 800 (originally 1200), N810 1500 (should be 1300 or so, bought new batt last year) |
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| 23:07.21 | ShadowJK | I don't have have "full charge detection" in my script on Diablo... something that bq runs in hw |
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| 23:08.27 | ShadowJK | Ran my diablo script (with 5s period instead of 1s) on fremantle too (with mods), and "full charge" could vary by +-100mAh depending on system load and stuff |
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| 23:23.59 | Estel_ | ~Pali |
| 23:23.59 | infobot | pali is, like, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
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