| 00:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got a DNS for repository.maemo.org already pointing to IP of the VM originally assigned for that purpose. We found out that akamai polling stage.maemo.org instantly killed the rack's uplink. We took down stage.m.o VM and things somewhat became normal, but Eero realized that actaully stage.m.o is our new *real* repository.m.o. Eero implemented a firewall redirection from repo.m.o IP to stage.m.o IP/VM. When we started up stage.m.o VM |
| 00:08.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, it again instantly killed *.m.o by congestion of some bottleneck in uplink. At that stage we shut down stage.m.o again and called it a week on Friday afternoon. Monday we will investigate whether maybe the akamai->stage.m.o path still was open and thus starting of stage.m.o VM caused same issue we initially seen on Wednesday |
| 00:12.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | you may quote me on that, whenever somebody asks what's up with repository and when it will come back to life |
| 00:12.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see last update on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1314588 |
| 00:15.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | PLEASE EVERYBODY help testing of moved maemo.org infra. We know repo doesn't work, and we know tmo can't send mails. Please everybody check everything you can and report stuff that started to fail with the move during last 7 days. THANKS |
| 00:18.41 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 00:24.53 | ShadowJK | allotrope94, eyescream, there you have it from the horse's mouth :-) |
| 00:26.53 | Sc0rpius | well nice update. |
| 00:28.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | neighs |
| 00:32.27 | eyescream | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for the update. |
| 00:32.32 | eyescream | ShadowJK: Thanks for the highlight. :P |
| 00:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 00:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | stage.maemo.org. 300 IN A 188.117.59.205 |
| 00:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | when vanishing, might fix akamai DDoS attack for good |
| 00:37.08 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~fiq@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 00:37.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | blocking that path on firewall might help for an interim bandaid |
| 00:37.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | (that's what I suspect we might have missed to configure correctly on Friday) |
| 00:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | repository.maemo.org. 300 IN A 188.117.59.203 |
| 00:39.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | got redirected on FW/NAT to 188.117.59.205, but sh*t hit the fan as soon as we started the stage VM |
| 00:41.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if it might be easier to change the NIC IP on stage VM |
| 00:42.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI stage as well as autobuilder is X-Fade's domain of expertise |
| 00:42.15 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 00:42.39 | *** join/#maemo NeutrinoPower (~neutrino@static.52.99.9.5.clients.your-server.de) |
| 00:42.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, ps in "PLEASE EVERYBODY": autobuilder and drop also don't work yet |
| 00:43.52 | FIQ | just wondering, is there any issues with devel atm? |
| 00:45.51 | FIQ | or did I just add the repository wrongly in the ham version of sources.list (in the sources.list.d directory)? |
| 00:46.13 | FIQ | I get the following cryptic error: |
| 00:46.19 | FIQ | W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/community/dists/fremantle/free/i18n/Translation-sv_SE.bz2 Unable to connect to repository.maemo.org http: |
| 00:46.54 | FIQ | this happens for all maemo repositories |
| 00:47.00 | FIQ | extras, testing and devel |
| 00:47.26 | khm | repository.maemo.org is offline. see the topic. |
| 00:47.38 | FIQ | sorry, <FIQ> just wondering, is there any issues with devel atm? s/devel/repository/ |
| 00:47.40 | FIQ | huh |
| 00:47.56 | FIQ | ohh, I'm very sorry |
| 00:48.04 | FIQ | I read the topic before asking but somehow missed it anyway |
| 00:50.15 | Hurrian | Quite a rough few days, isn't it? DocScrutinizer05, are we just waiting for RMO's DNS entries to get updated? |
| 00:50.22 | FIQ | hmmm interesting, the link which is told to show a hosts file with the correct IP is dead |
| 00:50.33 | FIQ | (@ http://mwkn.net/2013/01/community.html ) |
| 00:50.58 | eyescream | FIQ: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88707 |
| 00:51.08 | *** join/#maemo Ultima_Fan (~stereopri@96.19.211.4) |
| 00:51.09 | FIQ | ty |
| 00:51.15 | eyescream | You're welcome. |
| 00:51.22 | *** part/#maemo Ultima_Fan (~stereopri@96.19.211.4) |
| 01:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: I really don't know how to explain situation more verbosely than what I did ending 11 postlines above your initial post |
| 01:02.22 | Hurrian | mmm. |
| 01:02.29 | qwazix | freemangordon, [code](/opt/QtSDK/Simulator/Qt/gcc/imports/org/hildon/components/libhildonplugin.so: undefined symbol: _ZTV12HildonPlugin) [/code] |
| 01:02.29 | qwazix | The same appears on device too. |
| 01:02.54 | qwazix | oops, forgot to remove bbtags after copying from tmo |
| 01:03.43 | Pali | qwazix, _ZTV12HildonPlugin is manged |
| 01:03.56 | Pali | AFAIK hildon library is C |
| 01:04.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo repo-down is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-20.log.html#t2013-01-20T02:08:42 |
| 01:04.12 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 01:04.27 | qwazix | Pali, HildonPlugin is just a name of a qml plugin by Marxian |
| 01:04.36 | qwazix | not related to real hildon |
| 01:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-20.log.html#t2013-01-20T02:08:42 |
| 01:04.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-20.log.html#t2013-01-20T02:08:42 |
| 01:05.03 | Pali | qwazix, ok |
| 01:05.10 | qwazix | Pali, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85955 |
| 01:06.07 | FIQ | lol, these temporary mirrors give bizarre errors |
| 01:06.43 | jon_y | _ZTV12HildonPlugin <- likely missing extern "C" |
| 01:07.11 | jon_y | wait, c++filt says it's a vtable |
| 01:07.25 | FIQ | oh, one of them was actually due to a typo |
| 01:07.26 | qwazix | jon_y, it's a qt lib |
| 01:07.32 | FIQ | otherwise they're still strange |
| 01:08.01 | FIQ | one of them had bz2 files which bzip refused to open ("returned with an error code (1)"), another one just give hash sum mismatch errors |
| 01:08.14 | jon_y | qwazix: isn't QT C++? |
| 01:08.34 | FIQ | "one of them" being skeiron, the other one merlin1991's |
| 01:08.38 | qwazix | FIQ, I get the same with gzip |
| 01:08.43 | khm | Qt is C++ in the same sense that C++ is C |
| 01:08.54 | qwazix | the file contains 'no' if you open it with a browser |
| 01:09.04 | FIQ | now let's try the third provided |
| 01:09.14 | FIQ | from webdrop.it |
| 01:09.25 | qwazix | jon_y, qt is C++ plus some things |
| 01:09.43 | qwazix | C++++ :P |
| 01:09.47 | jon_y | I don't get it, you mixed C with C++, obviously you get mangled symbols |
| 01:09.53 | FIQ | *wedrop.it |
| 01:10.11 | qwazix | jon_y I didn't mix C with C++ |
| 01:10.15 | jon_y | khm: what does that supposed to mean? |
| 01:10.24 | khm | jon_y: Qt is a superset of C++. |
| 01:10.37 | jon_y | ok |
| 01:10.58 | qwazix | It's qt code (not written by me) but it looks like valid Qt code. |
| 01:11.47 | jon_y | well, whatever it is, your vtable export is missing |
| 01:12.04 | FIQ | let's see if this one works |
| 01:12.29 | qwazix | is looking up vtable export |
| 01:12.46 | jon_y | qwazix: symbol export |
| 01:13.12 | jon_y | vtables are compiler generated |
| 01:13.36 | qwazix | jon_y I think I found it |
| 01:13.42 | qwazix | let me make sure |
| 01:13.54 | jon_y | likely present in the object that has the HildonPlugin defintion |
| 01:14.18 | FIQ | hmmmmmm |
| 01:14.30 | FIQ | both wedrop and merlin1991's repositories gave hash mismatch errors |
| 01:14.37 | FIQ | the third one gave a bzip error |
| 01:14.39 | FIQ | w/e |
| 01:14.50 | qwazix | nah, it wasn't that... |
| 01:15.08 | qwazix | does this line seem ok? Q_EXPORT_PLUGIN2(hildonplugin, HildonPlugin) |
| 01:15.26 | jon_y | check your compiled objects |
| 01:15.50 | jon_y | no amount of syntax checking will tell you if it was actually exported |
| 01:15.57 | allotrope94 | so the repositories don't work? darn |
| 01:16.01 | qwazix | how do I check them? |
| 01:16.42 | jon_y | compile your code? |
| 01:16.55 | jon_y | don't use IDEs |
| 01:16.57 | qwazix | Yes I got the compiled objects |
| 01:17.03 | jon_y | I have no idea how you do that |
| 01:17.14 | qwazix | what can I do with them? |
| 01:17.14 | jon_y | now use nm or strings to find it |
| 01:17.38 | jon_y | nm <object>.o | grep HildonPlugin |
| 01:17.43 | qwazix | ok |
| 01:21.17 | qwazix | only _ZTV12HildonPlugin |
| 01:26.56 | jon_y | qwazix: T 00000000 _ZTV12HildonPlugin? |
| 01:27.15 | qwazix | whole line: U _ZTV12HildonPlugin |
| 01:27.19 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777 (~user@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 01:27.25 | jon_y | that means it is missing |
| 01:27.29 | qwazix | with some leading whitespace |
| 01:27.51 | jon_y | are you sure this is the object that holds the definition? |
| 01:28.07 | qwazix | I grepped all the files to make sure |
| 01:28.09 | *** join/#maemo WizardNumberNext (~marek@2001:470:1f08:178b:92e6:baff:fe50:bed4) |
| 01:28.17 | qwazix | but this should be the one, yes |
| 01:28.33 | qwazix | I think i've got some studying to do |
| 01:28.38 | jon_y | hmm, not sure, but I'll be soing some tests |
| 01:29.08 | qwazix | jon_y, source is on tmo link I pasted to pali above |
| 01:29.14 | qwazix | page 2 |
| 01:29.21 | qwazix | if you want to have a look at it |
| 01:29.37 | qwazix | I'll check the qt plugin example to hunt for differences |
| 01:34.31 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c155-11.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 01:36.45 | jon_y | qwazix: maybe http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html#vtables can help |
| 01:36.56 | jon_y | I have no idea how to do this in QT |
| 01:37.05 | UberNeo | continuously getting the error http://pastebin.com/3QcsShwx . thru syslog . |
| 01:37.14 | qwazix | jon_y, thanks I'll check it out |
| 01:37.17 | UberNeo | any help |
| 01:37.40 | UberNeo | cpu % is 100 |
| 01:38.39 | Pali | jon_y, qt generating some special variables for plugins |
| 01:38.58 | Pali | there is qt macro for plugin exported by qt code |
| 01:39.24 | jon_y | so hyw is the class missing the vtable? |
| 01:39.26 | Pali | or that vtable error can happen also when you forgot to generate and link qt MOC files |
| 01:39.26 | jon_y | *why |
| 01:39.34 | jon_y | ok |
| 01:39.47 | Pali | see moc program |
| 01:39.53 | qwazix | UberNeo, maybe messaging ui theme is to blame? |
| 01:40.28 | UberNeo | what should I do .. in this case ? |
| 01:40.32 | qwazix | Pali, moc_* files are there in the build folder if that's of any use |
| 01:40.39 | Pali | jon_y: each class in Qt should have Q_OBJECT macro in declaration |
| 01:40.46 | Pali | and that macro defining some functions... |
| 01:40.50 | qwazix | UberNeo, revert to default theme if you changed it |
| 01:41.01 | Pali | and moc generating that functions |
| 01:41.17 | Pali | and if you forgot to link moc cpp files, then you will see linker errors |
| 01:41.22 | qwazix | UberNeo, I also see messaging failing to get a handle name |
| 01:41.28 | Pali | in Q_OBJECT are only function headers |
| 01:41.30 | qwazix | maybe deleting the messages would help |
| 01:41.44 | qwazix | Not sure, somebody more experienced should see it |
| 01:41.56 | jon_y | qwazix: see Pali's message |
| 01:42.24 | UberNeo | changed theme .. no effect |
| 01:42.33 | qwazix | jon_y, ok |
| 01:42.57 | UberNeo | actually .. I have my /opt and /users directory on the uSD card .. |
| 01:43.31 | qwazix | UberNeo, I'd say to purge rtcom-messaging-ui and reinstall but repos are down |
| 01:43.45 | UberNeo | was working perfectly fine . I just copied the whole stuff in another uSd card .. so it starts showing these errors |
| 01:43.55 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: why? uSD card might be faster in itsef, but it is still connected by only 2 links vs 4 for eMMC |
| 01:44.10 | qwazix | Maybe borked messaging db |
| 01:44.25 | UberNeo | my eMMC is corrupted .. Hardware fault |
| 01:44.35 | WizardNumberNext | oh by the way - copying R/W mounted FS isn't best idea |
| 01:45.04 | UberNeo | so most of the stuff on uSd |
| 01:45.39 | WizardNumberNext | I would try to get new one - there's loads of it on market at the moment - all you need is look for it (you might have to look for it in broken devices, but still you can find one quite easily) |
| 01:46.36 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo - how heavy corruption is it? |
| 01:46.50 | jon_y | enough to involve Interpol :) |
| 01:47.13 | UberNeo | WizardNumberNext: i havent copied mounted FS .. removed the usd . copied the contents on my usd and then copied it on another usd |
| 01:47.18 | WizardNumberNext | maybe you would be able to use ext4 on it created with -ccc |
| 01:47.41 | WizardNumberNext | I mean /home and stuff |
| 01:48.09 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 01:48.48 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: what about swap? |
| 01:49.12 | WizardNumberNext | I would move swap as this would create loads of problems if it would stay on corrupted device |
| 01:49.42 | jon_y | maybe you can try RescueOS and export the partitions to a PC |
| 01:49.57 | UberNeo | Nokia-N900:/etc/systemui# cat /proc/swaps FilenameTypeSizeUsedPriority /dev/mmcblk0p3 partition180428020444-1 |
| 01:49.58 | jon_y | and attempt to recover via dd or something |
| 01:50.08 | qwazix | haha It worked :) |
| 01:50.36 | qwazix | I just needed to move the declaration of the plugin class to a header file instead of a source file |
| 01:50.38 | UberNeo | swap seems to be on uSd |
| 01:50.56 | WizardNumberNext | get swap on uSD, if your eMMC is corrupted you have more problems with swap, then without (or on uSD) |
| 01:50.56 | qwazix | jon_y, Pali, thanks for the pointers |
| 01:51.16 | WizardNumberNext | mmc0 is eMMc |
| 01:52.02 | WizardNumberNext | do you run GNU/Linux on PC? |
| 01:52.07 | jon_y | this app http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Download is pretty good at recovering stuff |
| 01:52.16 | jon_y | runs on Linux AND Windows |
| 01:52.20 | UberNeo | I am on MAc |
| 01:52.43 | UberNeo | here is my mount and free logs |
| 01:52.44 | UberNeo | http://pastebin.com/vPbxSrcm |
| 01:53.09 | WizardNumberNext | if you do, then using pipe should enable you to move whole mmc0 to PC (partition by partition is easier to cope with) |
| 01:53.21 | WizardNumberNext | then you have SSH |
| 01:53.30 | WizardNumberNext | you can use pipe on N900 |
| 01:53.41 | jon_y | why yes TestDisk runs on Mac too |
| 01:54.08 | jon_y | I used g_file_stuff to export the partition over USB |
| 01:54.22 | jon_y | or was it g_file_storage or something |
| 01:54.29 | WizardNumberNext | mkfifo /some_pipe; scp /some_pipe user@host:/file; dd if=/dev/mmcblk0p1 of=/some_pipe |
| 01:54.30 | jon_y | anyway, mass storage mode |
| 01:54.37 | UberNeo | whole mmc0 to pc?? |
| 01:55.03 | WizardNumberNext | g_file_storage is gadget which makes pendrive |
| 01:55.09 | WizardNumberNext | that would work as well |
| 01:55.32 | WizardNumberNext | yes, but do it partition by partition - splitting might be tricky |
| 01:55.34 | UberNeo | WizardNumberNext: ? |
| 01:55.53 | jon_y | WizardNumberNext: can't UberNeo just export /dev/mtdblock0? |
| 01:56.06 | WizardNumberNext | and you can safely omit swap - you do not need outdated memory contents ;) |
| 01:56.07 | jon_y | *mmcblk0 |
| 01:56.50 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y and UberNeo: yes, he can export mtdblock0 as well in rescueOS |
| 01:57.15 | WizardNumberNext | via pendrive facility (uses g_file_storage) |
| 01:57.37 | jon_y | I just did that when my n900 screen died |
| 01:58.25 | WizardNumberNext | it does work well - I unbricked my N900 twice using rescueOS and USB-storage (g_file_storage on N900, but it doesn't matter, because afair it was called there usb-storage) |
| 01:58.33 | jon_y | modprobe g_file_storage file=/dev/<your block> |
| 01:58.38 | UberNeo | not sure then .. howcome . the things were working fine on my old usd |
| 01:59.08 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: you can have another copy |
| 01:59.17 | *** part/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 01:59.20 | UberNeo | how to check . which Swap its is using ? |
| 02:00.06 | WizardNumberNext | but on PC/MAC try to use dd_rescue for getting data of it - dd_rescue would get more data in better state and it does create sparse file and doesn't fill holes, where it cannot read source |
| 02:00.15 | WizardNumberNext | cat /proc/swaps |
| 02:00.23 | WizardNumberNext | if I am not wrong |
| 02:00.26 | WizardNumberNext | second |
| 02:00.46 | WizardNumberNext | yes thats the file |
| 02:01.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: (( mmc0 is eMMc)) no, not always |
| 02:01.19 | WizardNumberNext | didn't change from time of 2.6.2, so definitely on N900 would be same |
| 02:02.11 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: I never have seen eMMC on mmcblk1, but yes - it can be in different place |
| 02:02.26 | jon_y | rescueOS has it swapped backwards, at least in my case |
| 02:02.36 | WizardNumberNext | if you would detect uSD first, then uSD would be 0 and eMMC would any next |
| 02:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: please stop talking UberNeo thru an adventure that's unrelated to the problem he came here for |
| 02:03.11 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y and UberNeo: afaik RescueOS does swap it around |
| 02:04.09 | WizardNumberNext | OK, anyway I still think he should make proper backup and get rid of swap from his eMMC |
| 02:04.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: in early boot mmc-port0 is called mmc0 and internal port is mmc1. Later during boot it gets renamed, but not everywhere |
| 02:05.10 | WizardNumberNext | doc is it up to udev? just being courious and lazy to check it out by myself |
| 02:05.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it's a binary called by udev |
| 02:06.20 | WizardNumberNext | I was actuallythinking they did it easier way (something like with ethX and such stuff) |
| 02:06.48 | WizardNumberNext | they like to complicate their lives, I see |
| 02:07.34 | jon_y | the complicator's gloves! |
| 02:08.04 | WizardNumberNext | unfortunately I belong to them in a way - I like to complicate my life as well |
| 02:08.17 | UberNeo | any final suggestion . confused here .. how to debug http://pastebin.com/3QcsShwx |
| 02:08.25 | *** join/#maemo kolp_ (~quassel@212.255.237.99) |
| 02:08.47 | WizardNumberNext | like, when I changed partition type of first partition on eMMC to 83 - endless loop of booting |
| 02:09.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: how did you manage to move /home to uSD? |
| 02:09.44 | WizardNumberNext | I am interested as well, because fstab is dynamic and it is created every boot |
| 02:10.03 | WizardNumberNext | at least looks like |
| 02:10.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: yes, and some 5 poeple talked one user with similar problem thru such switch here on this very channel a whole night long, several months ago |
| 02:11.24 | WizardNumberNext | doc what would happen if I would make fstab immutable? |
| 02:11.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it been not exactly trivial, and in the end I doubt we missed to switch swap |
| 02:11.38 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: its u . who have helped me .. more than a year back . 31ss Oct 2011 |
| 02:12.54 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 02:13.13 | UberNeo | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-10-31.log.html |
| 02:13.17 | UberNeo | here are the logs |
| 02:13.22 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: |
| 02:14.23 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: this is magic line . which u gave me "[03:31] <DocScrutinizer> umount /media/mmc1; sfdisk /dev/mmcblk1 <<FOO; blaVFAT opton option; blablaext3 option; blablablaSWAP option; FOO; echo please open and close back cover; mkswap mmcblk1p3; mkfs.ext3 mmcblk1p2; mkfs.vfat mmcblk1p1; mount mmcblk1p2 /mnt/foohome; umount MyDocs; cp -a /home /mnt/foohome; sed -i 's/SLOT_NUM=0/SLOT_NUM=@/; s/SLOT_NUM=1/SLOT_NUM=0/; s/SLOT_NUM=@/S |
| 02:15.24 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 02:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I been wrong, it's not a binary |
| 02:21.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: read those chanlogs and see how to *really* swap eMMC with uSD |
| 02:21.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | for *whole* system, incl swap |
| 02:21.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: I suggest you blame your new uSD, get a better one and do the copying again |
| 02:22.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | copy of *whole* physical uSD |
| 02:22.09 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: you mean those logs? I am just reading them - it is quite interesting |
| 02:22.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl bootsector/MBR and all |
| 02:22.25 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: .. i think .. i have done something wrong . while copying /opt and /users from my old uSd to new uSd . i did it using the Konqueror |
| 02:22.51 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: what about hidden files? |
| 02:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't do a physical diskimage copy, you need to create partitions on new uSD exactly same way they were on old one |
| 02:23.41 | WizardNumberNext | and I am not sure if konqueror keeps permissions (user on N900 have uid of 29999, Linux normaly created users from 1000) |
| 02:24.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, copy by konqueror is prone to fail in many ways |
| 02:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | for such stuff |
| 02:24.45 | UberNeo | then hw shud I copy |
| 02:24.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 02:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | dd if=/dev/mmc24 of=/dev/mmc26 |
| 02:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | on your linux desktop pc |
| 02:25.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | something similar to that |
| 02:26.30 | UberNeo | here mmc24 is my old usd and mmc26 is the new usd .. |
| 02:26.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 02:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you use an intermediate storage on your HDD: dd if=/dev/mmc7 of=/tmp/myuSDimage |
| 02:27.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | dd if=/tmp/myuSDimage of=/dev/mmc7 |
| 02:28.04 | UberNeo | i only have one card reader .. and can read/write only one usd at a time . can i save it on my Desktop and then transfer to new usd |
| 02:28.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course swap uSD in between the two cmds |
| 02:28.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and don't forget to sync after second cmd |
| 02:28.47 | UberNeo | sync? |
| 02:28.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | since driver will write buffers for almost one minute after dd finished |
| 02:28.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | the command "sync" |
| 02:29.05 | UberNeo | ok |
| 02:29.24 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: just type sync after those commands, then wait till you will get prompt |
| 02:29.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | only after sync returns, you may remove uSD |
| 02:29.46 | WizardNumberNext | I do not remember if sync works from user or you have to do it as root |
| 02:29.53 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 02:29.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | root |
| 02:30.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | just like dd |
| 02:30.30 | UberNeo | do i need the sync command . after both dd statements |
| 02:30.47 | WizardNumberNext | you can actually make yourself extra sure - press ALT+PrintScreen+S, then dmesg as see if Emergency Sync is complete |
| 02:30.56 | WizardNumberNext | after second |
| 02:31.37 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 02:31.40 | WizardNumberNext | this one which I told is sure as hell, as it is done from kernel and kernel won't say it synced until it is |
| 02:32.09 | WizardNumberNext | it may take a while to sync and it depends on size of your RAM, so be patient |
| 02:33.03 | UberNeo | okk . doing that |
| 02:34.16 | WizardNumberNext | and check, if card gets mounted automatically, if so unmount it before you start to copy! |
| 02:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: forget alt-prtscr-S, it most probably isn't even enabled on your standard linux PC. You can use `sync` after writing to uSD before removing it. Works reliably |
| 02:36.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, that is actually an extremely important advice |
| 02:36.18 | WizardNumberNext | it does work reliably - it safed my day many times |
| 02:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: after inserting uSD, do a `mount` and see if anything points to the card. If so, umount it |
| 02:37.44 | WizardNumberNext | : I just use SysRq as it is much faster to do (by keyboard hitting), so no wonder I always like to say people about this one |
| 02:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | there mustn't any mounts on the card before you dd to it |
| 02:38.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | SysReq has to get enabled. Usually it isn't |
| 02:38.46 | WizardNumberNext | ^^ or your copy might get highly inconsistent and even fsck could have big problem to fix it |
| 02:39.34 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: actually I even do not know if it is enabled in Debian, as I have it enabled in kernel configuration (my own kernel) |
| 02:39.57 | FIQ | uhhh |
| 02:39.58 | FIQ | really |
| 02:40.43 | FIQ | *stuff updates* "error, couldn't do some thing as repo is down, do you want to check errormsg?" *checks, and as I exit the UI, it updates AGAIN* |
| 02:40.49 | FIQ | ham :( |
| 02:40.56 | WizardNumberNext | FIQ: are you asking me? Yes, for last few years I use my own kernel (I configure it, I compile it) - from time 2.6.2 |
| 02:41.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM is cute, no? X-P |
| 02:41.20 | FIQ | WizardNumberNext: nah, "really" was @ ham stupidity |
| 02:41.27 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: yaay |
| 02:41.39 | UberNeo | my new usd card is of higher capacity so I have given more blocks to it .. |
| 02:41.39 | WizardNumberNext | I see - I finished typing and read your message |
| 02:42.01 | UberNeo | do it make any effect if the source and destnation are of different sizes |
| 02:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 02:42.18 | FIQ | let's NOT press "information" this time |
| 02:42.19 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: what do you mean? To any particular partitions? |
| 02:42.41 | UberNeo | Target -- /dev/sdd2 21506 28674 7341056 83 Linux |
| 02:43.06 | WizardNumberNext | actually makeing bigger partition which contains DDed FS wouldn't make FS bigger |
| 02:43.09 | FIQ | apparently I need PC Suite to install latest thumb update |
| 02:43.11 | UberNeo | Source -- /dev/sdd2 277 965 5254314 83 Linux |
| 02:43.15 | FIQ | doesn't believe that |
| 02:43.42 | WizardNumberNext | FIQ: that's really stupid, I agree |
| 02:43.57 | FIQ | though repo@maemo is down so that is probably the problem |
| 02:45.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: then you should go the "hard" way, create proper partitions similar to old card, just extending the "/home" partiton or "MyDocs" partition, whatever you like. Then mkfs on each partition, and finally cp -A stuff from old to new card, partition by partition |
| 02:45.42 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo, if you want to use bigger patition, then you need to mount your dump (if you did it partition by partition) and make new FS in place of bigger partition, then copy ALL files (cp -a) |
| 02:46.01 | WizardNumberNext | overlap |
| 02:47.34 | WizardNumberNext | actually, if you use PowerKernel you can use ext4 (quite fast I think) |
| 02:47.49 | WizardNumberNext | mkfs.ext4 /device |
| 02:48.20 | jon_y | not sure if jfs is more appropriate for flash devices |
| 02:48.24 | WizardNumberNext | but actually you can safe some space by: 'mkfs.ext4 -J size=16 /device' |
| 02:48.46 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: do you mean JFS or JJFS2 |
| 02:48.54 | WizardNumberNext | or whatever it is called |
| 02:49.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you can try to make it *work* by not doing any such tweaks, first |
| 02:49.50 | jon_y | yeah, maybe I'm confusing the 2 |
| 02:49.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | jfs is for NAND, not for mmc |
| 02:49.53 | WizardNumberNext | that is just tweak of size of journal, but if partition is smaller then 1GiB, then anyway he would get 16MiB journal |
| 02:50.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | jjfs2 actually |
| 02:50.38 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: if i have to use the same partition size . then there is no point to move it to new usd card . |
| 02:50.46 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: you cannot use JJFS2 or UBIFS directly on block device - it have to be flash or be an emulated flash |
| 02:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: please reread my instruction |
| 02:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>*similar* to old card, just *extending* the "/home" partiton or "MyDocs" partition<< |
| 02:52.31 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: just do DD dumps of partitions (skip if you did it partition by partition already), make new FSs on new card and 'cp -a' for each FS |
| 02:53.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 02:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | cp -a a dd dump? I guess he had to loopmount the dump before, which might already be way more cumbersome than a proper tarball |
| 02:54.21 | WizardNumberNext | oh sorry I think with shortcuts |
| 02:54.23 | UberNeo | so i can cp -a the dumps created by dd as single file .. |
| 02:54.28 | WizardNumberNext | no! |
| 02:54.42 | jon_y | WizardNumberNext: ok, JFS |
| 02:54.44 | WizardNumberNext | sorry it is fault of my shortcut thinking |
| 02:54.58 | WizardNumberNext | you have to moun t those dumps |
| 02:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you create tar archives of your old card |
| 02:55.22 | WizardNumberNext | mount -o loop,ro /dump_file /mount_point |
| 02:55.31 | WizardNumberNext | this would work as well |
| 02:55.47 | WizardNumberNext | and might be faster |
| 02:55.55 | WizardNumberNext | depends on computer |
| 02:56.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you have two sd card slots on your PC and simply cp -a, like you did with konqueror before |
| 02:56.35 | WizardNumberNext | on mine it is definitely faster - no ordinary HDD is able to write so damn fast |
| 02:57.18 | WizardNumberNext | but still highly advisable to mount it read-only |
| 02:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | loopmount is not exactly trivial stuff for beginners |
| 02:57.38 | WizardNumberNext | nothing can touch anything on it |
| 02:57.55 | WizardNumberNext | mostly works out of the box |
| 02:58.06 | WizardNumberNext | never had any problem |
| 02:58.17 | UberNeo | still my old . dd command is ruuning .. which copying to bigger size usd partion (as compared to source partion size) |
| 02:58.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | your problem however is talking beginners thru procedures |
| 02:58.39 | WizardNumberNext | just kill it CTRL+C |
| 02:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or let it finish |
| 02:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | the use gparted to extend the MyDocs partition |
| 02:59.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | then* |
| 02:59.32 | WizardNumberNext | might work |
| 02:59.37 | UberNeo | fdisk will work for extending ?? |
| 02:59.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 02:59.48 | WizardNumberNext | and there is backup, so it is anyway perfectly safe |
| 03:00.31 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: you would be extending FS, not partition, that is why you have to use gparted (it can do it, opposed to fdisk) |
| 03:01.01 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B16669A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:01.54 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: I would say JFS is deprecated in my eyes - it is quite old one |
| 03:02.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | jffs2 |
| 03:02.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf JFS |
| 03:02.55 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: actually same, but this time not only in my eyes! Thats why UBIFS exists |
| 03:02.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | must be older than even me |
| 03:03.34 | WizardNumberNext | might be - it is IBM creation and afaik it is one of first journaled FS even made |
| 03:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither jffs2 nor ubifs are even meant to work on mmc |
| 03:03.45 | WizardNumberNext | if not first |
| 03:03.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | both are for NAND |
| 03:03.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | or NOR |
| 03:04.12 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: I know, not everybody knows what is difference |
| 03:04.50 | *** join/#maemo fortytwo (~thomas@who.let.this.bloody.dropbear.in) |
| 03:05.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the difference is like that between datasette and HDD |
| 03:05.12 | WizardNumberNext | actually both MMC and SD are NAND or NOR, but they have FLT in a way, so they are block-devices NOT char-devices (with erease-blocks) |
| 03:05.27 | WizardNumberNext | I know |
| 03:06.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | one has a controller for block device, the other is "raw" IO |
| 03:06.17 | WizardNumberNext | I tend to read a lot about technologies and like to go through kernel documentation and it is said there few times what is difference |
| 03:06.25 | WizardNumberNext | exactly |
| 03:06.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | one has a interface that talks commands, the other one has an interface that has chip enable and adress and data lines |
| 03:06.51 | UberNeo | WizardNumberNext: "sync" command . finished in 1 sec only |
| 03:06.56 | UberNeo | is it normal ? |
| 03:07.07 | WizardNumberNext | actually FTL is doing same job as JFFS2 and UBIFS (apart from FS) |
| 03:07.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends |
| 03:07.21 | WizardNumberNext | yes, it perfectly normal to finish quickly |
| 03:07.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it finished, everything ok |
| 03:07.41 | UberNeo | okk . |
| 03:08.05 | WizardNumberNext | it depends on amount of caches for devices and FSs, so it might take fraction of second or even minutes - depends |
| 03:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | now unplug/remove card without any further "safely remove" or unmount commands |
| 03:08.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | or "eject" or whatever |
| 03:09.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't allow PC to mount it again |
| 03:09.38 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: do you want UberNeo to extend FS straight away or try it out first? |
| 03:10.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | if PC complains about you doing so, you already missed something and so sth went wrong |
| 03:10.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd say first try it, extend later |
| 03:10.29 | WizardNumberNext | I was thinking same |
| 03:10.34 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: so the card is destroyed permanently? |
| 03:10.44 | UberNeo | trying . |
| 03:11.06 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: do you mean UberNoe's eMMC? |
| 03:11.19 | jon_y | I mean < DocScrutinizer05> don't allow PC to mount it again |
| 03:11.24 | WizardNumberNext | if he have bad-clocks there - it is inreversible |
| 03:11.40 | WizardNumberNext | no FS could get corrupted |
| 03:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: I said that so PC doesn't destroy data on uSD |
| 03:11.52 | WizardNumberNext | s/no FS/no, FS/ |
| 03:12.02 | jon_y | ok |
| 03:12.44 | jon_y | would that be the case of an unusable cheapo USB flash after writing a huge chunk of data into it? |
| 03:13.09 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: it might be |
| 03:13.25 | WizardNumberNext | especially, if you pulled it out without unmounting it |
| 03:13.33 | jon_y | cool, I just briked a cheap USB flash |
| 03:13.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | he umounted all partitions of uSD, then dd dumped a disk image to every partition, then synced. If PC would mount it again, it might ^H will write to some blocks while not necessarily updating all blocks before he removes card |
| 03:13.46 | jon_y | well, it just died all of a sudden when dd into it |
| 03:14.07 | WizardNumberNext | if there is any block opened on it, then it might get corrupted in hardware and this is inreversible |
| 03:14.28 | jon_y | no idea, I was trying to install knoppix into it |
| 03:14.36 | jon_y | with knoppix-flash |
| 03:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be overheat |
| 03:14.43 | WizardNumberNext | sometimes even pulling while reading would be enough, as flash is completely different beast from HDD |
| 03:14.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | or sync |
| 03:14.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | which may take tens of minutes sometimes |
| 03:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | during which card seems 'dead' |
| 03:15.26 | WizardNumberNext | I agree with DocScrutinizer05, this can be cause as well |
| 03:15.40 | UberNeo | WizardNumberNext: it booted . but applications are not starting . showing "Internal Error" |
| 03:15.42 | jon_y | the PC recognizes the USB flash, but no longer able to actually access the media |
| 03:16.22 | jon_y | time to get DVD writers and DVD+RW instead |
| 03:16.39 | WizardNumberNext | be aware, that EHCI-HCD (USB2.0 in High-Speed mode) have hardware problem and it sometimes shows up and hungs whole USB hub |
| 03:16.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: not even for formatting? |
| 03:17.07 | jon_y | nope, even Windows Volume manager hangs on it |
| 03:17.16 | jon_y | I think it's blocking all IO calls |
| 03:17.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a fatality then |
| 03:17.29 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: now DocScrutinizer05 is definitely person, who would know more about how to deal with situation |
| 03:17.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: check dmesg/syslog, for usb ENUM msgs |
| 03:18.04 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: do you have logs from Linux, when you plug it? |
| 03:18.12 | UberNeo | now . wil try again . with the same size partitions + extended partions |
| 03:18.17 | jon_y | no, I don't have linux access atm |
| 03:18.18 | WizardNumberNext | would be very usefull |
| 03:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, I'm always faster than you WizardNumberNext |
| 03:18.29 | WizardNumberNext | what about virtual machine? |
| 03:18.41 | WizardNumberNext | you type away |
| 03:18.47 | jon_y | yeah I have a Linux VM |
| 03:18.56 | WizardNumberNext | that wouls be enough |
| 03:19.11 | WizardNumberNext | you just give it to your linux VM |
| 03:19.23 | UberNeo | http://pastebin.com/EekuqrPu .. syslog |
| 03:19.36 | UberNeo | loads of Calender errors |
| 03:20.08 | WizardNumberNext | and see dmesg for everything what dmesg spits out about usb and usb-storage and its "disk" (sdX - where X is some letter) |
| 03:20.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: /home/user/ doesn't exist |
| 03:20.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | your uSD is incorrect |
| 03:21.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | something not copied correctly |
| 03:21.42 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: check mount |
| 03:21.54 | WizardNumberNext | and ls /home |
| 03:22.08 | WizardNumberNext | or even ls -l /home |
| 03:22.15 | WizardNumberNext | would show permissions |
| 03:22.21 | UberNeo | http://pastebin.com/LTKwG9Xy |
| 03:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: a) create partitions on your new card, *exactly* same size for everything but MyDocs |
| 03:22.25 | UberNeo | mount logs |
| 03:22.58 | UberNeo | Nokia-N900:~# ls -l /home drwxrwxrwx 2 root root 4096 Oct 31 2011 lost+found drwxrwxrwx 38 root root 4096 Jul 15 2012 opt -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 346484 Nov 29 2010 user |
| 03:23.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: for MyDocs you use the remainsing space on your card, after subtracting all the other partitions' sizes |
| 03:24.08 | jon_y | WizardNumberNext: magically, the USB drive is now responding |
| 03:24.16 | jon_y | at least according to fdisk |
| 03:24.25 | WizardNumberNext | Jon_y: strange, but happens |
| 03:24.39 | WizardNumberNext | can you see partition on it? |
| 03:25.30 | WizardNumberNext | try dd if=/dev/sdX of=/dev/null bs=1M count=10, if it hungs then pendrive isn't fine |
| 03:25.44 | WizardNumberNext | could take time, depending on its speed |
| 03:25.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: yes, your /home got mounted, but probably no proper fs and data found on it |
| 03:25.59 | WizardNumberNext | but shouldn't be more then say 20 seconds\ |
| 03:27.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: you might have messed up umounting every parttion of card on your PC before dd writing to it |
| 03:28.03 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: I cant cd to /home/user .. even though it do exists |
| 03:28.04 | UberNeo | Nokia-N900:/home# cd /home/user -sh: cd: can't cd to /home/user Nokia-N900:/home# ls lost+found opt user |
| 03:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: you should redo the whole dd session, making sure you got partitions of sufficient size for 1st and 2nd partiton (MyDocs and home) |
| 03:30.10 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: user directory is corrupted |
| 03:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: making sure you umounted every existing mount to the card |
| 03:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | check again with mount after umounting |
| 03:31.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | make absolutely sure *nothing* on card got mounted |
| 03:31.19 | UberNeo | ok .. DocScrutinizer05 |
| 03:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: then dd partition 1 image to partiton1, and part2 image to partition2 |
| 03:31.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you need mkswap on partition 3 |
| 03:31.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | then sync |
| 03:31.58 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: actually he is going to make partitions bigger, so maybe mounting it read-only and using tar would be best? |
| 03:32.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: then remove uSD |
| 03:32.45 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: actually after swap would be created, make yourself sure it is not mounted again |
| 03:33.12 | WizardNumberNext | right after sync, I mean |
| 03:33.19 | jon_y | WizardNumberNext: nvm, it's dead anyway |
| 03:33.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | if your new card's partitions are only one block smaller than old one, anyone of them, your whole card gets overlapping partitons and dd will destroy next partition |
| 03:33.40 | WizardNumberNext | you can even automatize it: 'sync && mount' |
| 03:33.42 | jon_y | trying to mount it will hang the VM |
| 03:34.13 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: it needs only one thing then |
| 03:34.19 | WizardNumberNext | replacement |
| 03:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: so after sync and removing card, you even might insert it again to your linux PC and see if data looks good on MyDocs and home partitons |
| 03:35.46 | WizardNumberNext | but I would not blindly trust VM in this case, cause USB goes by some libraries in case of VMs |
| 03:36.49 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05 and UberNeo: it would definitely safe time, if it would get corrupted |
| 03:38.51 | jon_y | and for some magical reason, I manage to ninja format it |
| 03:39.02 | jon_y | now it is an empty FAT drive |
| 03:39.44 | jon_y | ninja format == keep pluging/unpluging until format /q works |
| 03:41.09 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: under Linux on Bare Metal: 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/some_file_on_pendrive' or if you want to be absolutely sure (it will destroy all data) 'dd if=/dev/zero of/dev/sdX' and, then 'mkfs.vfat /dev/sdX' |
| 03:41.41 | WizardNumberNext | on Linux you can actually put NTFS on pendrive and it works on windows XP and higher |
| 03:42.02 | WizardNumberNext | but on windows you cannot format pendrive as NTFS, which is bit annoying |
| 03:42.48 | WizardNumberNext | jon_y: NEVER unplug pendrive, which is being used! |
| 03:43.08 | WizardNumberNext | I lost one that way - while readin it |
| 03:44.23 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: shal i create teh swap partition also . same as the old usd . |
| 03:44.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 03:44.45 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: again faster |
| 03:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and run mkswap on it |
| 03:45.21 | UberNeo | then i beleve . after my 3 rd partion in new usd . theer will be lots of space left.. which wil remian unpartitioned |
| 03:45.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: don't forget to move part2 and 3 to end of card, so part1 can be larger |
| 03:46.07 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: I usualy was calculating all the stuff and crating partitons after |
| 03:46.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you increase size of part1 (MyDocs) or part2 (home) |
| 03:46.40 | WizardNumberNext | you can actually start from end of device, just need to calculate, where would be begin of partition |
| 03:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: after that you got 3 partitions and no free space on card |
| 03:47.46 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: If i use part 2 and oart 3 to the end of the card then how do they be teh same size as my old card |
| 03:49.02 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: you do not have to create partitions in order and actually you can start with 3rd artition, see how much space you have left and create rest, if you would have partitions not in order you just type x enter f enter r enter |
| 03:49.32 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: you do not need to have exactly same size |
| 03:49.42 | WizardNumberNext | it can be bigger, but NOT smaller |
| 03:50.03 | *** join/#maemo pablocastellanos (~communi@190.148.28.92) |
| 03:50.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | though any bigger is wasted space basically |
| 03:51.08 | WizardNumberNext | but he can extend it or create new FS and copy contents of old FS to it |
| 03:51.40 | UberNeo | got confused now |
| 03:52.19 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05 explain him what we spoke about, my shortcuts would not help here |
| 03:52.28 | UberNeo | sorry .. so I have created . 3 exact partions with same cylinders |
| 03:52.36 | *** join/#maemo schen (~schen@123-3-112-224.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 03:52.37 | WizardNumberNext | UberNeo: what are you not sure about? |
| 03:53.06 | WizardNumberNext | ok, so now you know how much space you have left |
| 03:53.11 | UberNeo | first . is vfat .. 2nd ext3 .. 3rd swap partion |
| 03:53.42 | WizardNumberNext | you can plan where you would give more, but remember to look if number of blocks is same or bigger |
| 03:54.10 | WizardNumberNext | so if you have exactly same partition table, then you dd to it |
| 03:54.38 | WizardNumberNext | or plan for bigger - it is your decission |
| 03:56.58 | allotrope94 | cool...the substitute repos work :) |
| 03:57.32 | WizardNumberNext | allotrope94: I tried them yesterday, but it failed for me |
| 04:00.04 | WizardNumberNext | ~mirror |
| 04:00.05 | infobot | mirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 04:00.48 | *** join/#maemo lunde (~user@1.38.29.32) |
| 04:02.42 | *** join/#maemo sLumPia (~sLumPia@182.13.39.100) |
| 04:04.21 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:07.56 | *** join/#maemo XenGi (~XenGi@2a02:748:a800:149:154:158:199:1) |
| 04:13.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | UberNeo: you need partitions that are large enough to hold all the blocks you copy with dd to them. additionally one is way larger than that dd image, and you'll extend that one to full size after you dd'ed the original partition image to it |
| 04:13.53 | *** join/#maemo d1b (~db@d1b.org) |
| 04:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | think of your dd images as carpets, and now you build three rooms to place those carpets in. The house where you build those rooms is larger than the old one, so one room is way larger than its analog in old house. |
| 04:16.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | you place the dd carpets in two of the rooms (no, actually the last room is swap and gets no carpet), and then you stretch one carpet with a magic tool to cover the larger room's floor |
| 04:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course you don't want any room being too small so you'd cut the carpet |
| 04:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you don't want to waste part of your house real estate by creating rooms that are too small to completely fill the house |
| 04:18.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | now your problem is: it's either first or second room that needs to be larger, not the third swap-room |
| 04:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | so pick the places where you build wall wisely |
| 04:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | since otherwise you later on can't stretch your carpet since already next room starts |
| 04:20.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | fdisk defines your rooms and builds the walls for you. gperted will stretch the carpet, but only to max size to fit into the room you built before dd threw the carpet in |
| 04:20.53 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@213.219.143.221.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 04:25.22 | UberNeo | DocScrutinizer05: back to creating the partitions on uSd |
| 04:29.47 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.249.53) |
| 04:31.16 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB327E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:34.38 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@dslb-094-216-242-144.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 05:18.04 | *** join/#maemo damo22 (~damien@fsf/member/damo22) |
| 05:18.41 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (~ssvb@212.16.98.80) |
| 05:22.11 | damo22 | i am very pleased that maemo uses debian style packaging |
| 05:22.47 | damo22 | i am looking to switch to a nokia n900 because i heard it runs GNU/Linux |
| 05:23.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | you heard right |
| 05:24.05 | damo22 | do all hardware features have open driver support? |
| 05:24.43 | khm | no. |
| 05:24.56 | khm | there are no arm devices that meet that standard. |
| 05:25.12 | damo22 | ok |
| 05:26.13 | damo22 | but its still exciting that a phone with gsm+wifi+gps can run linux natively |
| 05:26.37 | damo22 | is the bootloader open source? |
| 05:27.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 05:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's not tivoized |
| 05:27.39 | damo22 | thats good |
| 05:27.41 | khm | there are open bootloaders available, I think |
| 05:27.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there'y actually chainload solution that boots into uBoot |
| 05:28.04 | damo22 | cool |
| 05:28.25 | damo22 | maybe i will trade in my old phone and buy a couple |
| 05:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | used ones can be found easily |
| 05:29.52 | damo22 | is the N9 a later model? does it support GNU/linux? |
| 05:30.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | N9 is quite a different critter |
| 05:30.38 | khm | n9 also runs linux but 1) it's way less of a nerd party and 2) the development movement for it was stillborn |
| 05:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | still sort of GNU/linux but with a nasty flavour of trusted-computing fritzchip |
| 05:31.02 | khm | I have both. The n9 is a better 'phone phone' but the n900 is a better linux system. |
| 05:31.11 | damo22 | i dont really care how old the n900 is, just want a phone with good linux support |
| 05:31.18 | khm | then you want the n900. |
| 05:31.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 05:31.27 | damo22 | :D |
| 05:31.41 | damo22 | thanks folks |
| 05:32.21 | damo22 | does the n900 make calls using ALSA as the sound subsystem? |
| 05:34.01 | khm | I think so |
| 05:34.10 | damo22 | if it does, that would be cool because i could attach a usb soundcard and make a phonecall directly from my studio |
| 05:34.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 05:34.38 | damo22 | !!! |
| 05:34.48 | khm | I always just used SIP for that |
| 05:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the PA layer above ALSA sucks |
| 05:35.12 | khm | unfortunately pulseaudio is the main interface for sound |
| 05:35.18 | damo22 | we need jack |
| 05:35.27 | damo22 | ? |
| 05:35.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the policy enforcer which basically manages the "mixer" settings of PA even more sucks |
| 05:36.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, people managed to record phonecalls |
| 05:36.39 | damo22 | i wrote a usb audio kernel driver quirk, maybe i can fix some stuff for the audio layer |
| 05:37.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | the audio layer isn't that bad, and gstreamer goes a long way |
| 05:37.42 | damo22 | i am curious about the software that actually makes the call |
| 05:37.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | just particularly the modem(/phone) audio interface is a closed-source PA driver |
| 05:38.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or I dunno even if it's closed |
| 05:39.04 | damo22 | with maemo, do you get root access to the underlying debian system? |
| 05:39.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty simple, some lib receives some dbus msg and initiates the call, while other dbus msgs from that lib to policy enforcer etc set up the environment |
| 05:39.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, on my phone I'm root |
| 05:39.43 | damo22 | awesome |
| 05:39.44 | khm | damo22: the phone ships a terminal program, but you have to install a package to acquire root login |
| 05:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | jailbreak? HAHA on mYPhone I'm ROOT |
| 05:40.24 | damo22 | on my phone, im rooted |
| 05:41.32 | damo22 | any operating system that is proprietary is dangerous, because you cant modify the system code |
| 05:41.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | damo22: actually when I work on my PC's ssh to N900, I tend to forget I'm working on a phone and not a laptop |
| 05:42.31 | damo22 | if people forget that they need control of their own computing, this world will suck |
| 05:45.20 | khm | damo22: all computers are dangerous, because you do not have the source to the CPU microcode. |
| 05:45.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | damo22: I guess 20% of the most useful pkgs for N900 are shellscripts. Another huge bunch are python |
| 05:46.25 | khm | the rest are GBoggle. |
| 05:46.39 | khm | still pissed there's no GBoggle on the n9 |
| 05:46.55 | damo22 | khm: maybe that is correct, but if the microcode did something nasty, we would surely notice pretty quick |
| 05:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | gboggle? |
| 05:47.17 | khm | damo22: I am not so sure |
| 05:47.47 | khm | uefi and ipmi can also mean there's a whole OS under the OS |
| 05:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, that's more likely |
| 05:48.04 | khm | but it's moot. arm licensees will never reveal the wu-tang secret |
| 05:48.32 | khm | but I can run gboggle, so all is well |
| 05:48.58 | damo22 | khm: what could the microcode do? refuse to execute instructions that arent a certain type? |
| 05:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf gboggle |
| 05:49.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | gtk or what? |
| 05:50.03 | khm | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/gboggle/ |
| 05:50.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 05:50.20 | khm | damo22: see? you don't know what the microcode could do! |
| 05:50.24 | khm | that's the complaint. |
| 05:50.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah |
| 05:51.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I however have a pretty good idea what microcode can NOT do without creating major WTF of century |
| 05:52.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we can nuke shit like cherry/myNokia |
| 05:52.24 | khm | just casually copying registers into other registers that ipmi can access |
| 05:53.13 | damo22 | can we not disassemble microcode |
| 05:53.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even *know* of any microcode on ARM |
| 05:53.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might have missed sth though |
| 05:54.00 | damo22 | doesnt apple own the arm manufacturing company |
| 05:54.32 | khm | no. |
| 05:54.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no such thing like an ARM manufacturing |
| 05:54.40 | khm | there is no 'arm manufacturing company' |
| 05:54.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ARM company sells IP |
| 05:55.28 | khm | ARM designs processors, and licenses those designs. Other companies, like TI and Intel, own fabs that actually produce the hardware. |
| 05:55.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's companies like TI that manufacture chips with ARM IP blocks |
| 05:55.56 | damo22 | what is ip |
| 05:56.26 | khm | intellectual property |
| 05:56.31 | damo22 | gahhhh |
| 05:57.07 | damo22 | so apple owns all the ARM patents |
| 05:57.10 | khm | no |
| 05:57.13 | khm | ARM owns them. |
| 05:57.16 | khm | Apple owns jack shit. |
| 05:57.29 | damo22 | not what i heard |
| 05:57.29 | khm | ARM licenses them to companies like apple |
| 05:57.41 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 05:57.44 | khm | who integrate the licensed designs into complete systems |
| 05:58.03 | khm | with the result that no one company holds exclusive rights to any given arm system |
| 05:58.14 | khm | so getting low-level drivers cleared for FOSS release is damn near impossible |
| 05:58.20 | khm | which is why even the rpi ships a blob. |
| 05:58.31 | khm | damo22: you hear things from people who are wrong. |
| 05:58.53 | khm | Apple bought some tiny fab house. They own a company that can make chips. They do not own any part of ARM. |
| 05:59.11 | damo22 | i see |
| 05:59.59 | damo22 | what if someone reverse engineers a driver |
| 06:00.08 | damo22 | and decides to release it as foss |
| 06:02.41 | khm | then the president of unicorns will emerge from the odinsleep to bake that person a cake made of pure magic |
| 06:03.19 | damo22 | well, i didnt get a cake, but i made a driver for a sound card without specs |
| 06:04.26 | khm | my point is that reverse-engineered drivers are fine but generally do not exist, because few devices have enough development manpower |
| 06:04.47 | damo22 | k |
| 06:05.29 | damo22 | thats why collaborative efforts are good for this |
| 06:05.47 | damo22 | two heads are so much better than 1 |
| 06:05.48 | khm | I'm not aware of any non-collaborative efforts |
| 06:06.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, most ARM IP blocks are pretty nicely documented and open |
| 06:06.04 | khm | aside from the united states congress |
| 06:06.11 | damo22 | lol |
| 06:06.21 | khm | DocScrutinizer05: it's always the video coprocessors... |
| 06:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's usually the non-ARM stuff that has the blob drivers |
| 06:06.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 06:06.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | which are generally not ARM |
| 06:06.39 | khm | obviously |
| 06:06.47 | damo22 | but i dont care about the video stuff |
| 06:06.50 | khm | those are the bits the system designers bring to the table |
| 06:07.04 | damo22 | i want a headless linux machine that fits in my pocket |
| 06:07.12 | khm | so, releasing the driver source would enable corporate spies to glean important business secrets |
| 06:07.27 | khm | at least that's the paranoid theory |
| 06:07.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 06:07.53 | khm | damo22: n810, n900, raspberry pi, any android phone, etc |
| 06:08.03 | damo22 | i already have a rpi |
| 06:08.11 | damo22 | but i want one that makes calls |
| 06:08.29 | khm | n900, freerunner, that horrible diy thing from a few years ago |
| 06:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | calling N900 headless is an insult ;-) |
| 06:09.00 | damo22 | does framebuffer work on n900 |
| 06:09.05 | khm | I think there's a gsm module for the gumstix as well. |
| 06:09.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | err yup |
| 06:09.28 | damo22 | woot, im getting me a n900 |
| 06:10.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's all a bit quirky but i'm quite sure there's a framebuffer on maemo, even several I think |
| 06:12.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/fb0 /dev/fb1 /dev/fb2 |
| 06:13.26 | damo22 | i could run maemo in qemu |
| 06:14.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you get maemo SDK which does that for you, incl xephyr embedded X11 |
| 06:14.53 | damo22 | nice! |
| 06:15.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | people even ran the closed bootloader in that qemu |
| 06:15.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and thus traced what it's doing, to some extent |
| 06:30.07 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 06:41.08 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@218.74.184.251) |
| 07:01.10 | *** part/#maemo damo22 (~damien@fsf/member/damo22) |
| 07:16.05 | *** join/#maemo Hoolxi (~Openfree@117.144.70.13) |
| 07:32.02 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 07:49.43 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@218.74.184.251) |
| 07:56.47 | *** join/#maemo wmarone (~wmarone@c-67-174-151-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:13.19 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 08:20.51 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@brln-d9ba46c5.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 08:20.51 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 08:22.22 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.211.81.139) |
| 08:29.42 | *** join/#maemo sasquatch (~username@p4FF2DD44.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:37.12 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B48442.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:40.39 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@funtoo/user/ZogG) |
| 08:47.51 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@i59F79ABA.versanet.de) |
| 08:48.24 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-o1e (~cyborg-on@212-178-14-212.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) |
| 08:59.53 | kerio | what's in fremantle/ssu/apps? |
| 09:01.45 | *** join/#maemo cityLights (~nivw@bzq-218-29-26.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 09:02.35 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-16-232.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:02.35 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 09:06.46 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-190.telpol.net.pl) |
| 09:09.32 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@218.74.184.251) |
| 09:15.24 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 09:17.15 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e250:8401:fcb4:5c92:a4a2:c74b) |
| 09:23.42 | *** join/#maemo RzR (~RzR@82.236.136.171) |
| 09:26.18 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD29444.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:07.00 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 10:07.13 | freemangordon | romaxa: when building fennec, is there a way to only partially rebuild it, i.e. to rebuild only the code that has changed? |
| 10:08.04 | freemangordon | got it, need to cd to the directory |
| 10:10.20 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 10:10.27 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 10:11.07 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B48442.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:13.07 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 10:13.29 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 10:19.07 | kerio | sup Doc |
| 10:25.26 | kerio | DocScrutinizer |
| 10:26.19 | Pali | kerio, in upstream kernel 3.8-rc3 is usb mass storage working in g_nokia gadget |
| 10:26.31 | Pali | what do you think it is usefull for maemo too? |
| 10:26.32 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AAED8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:26.46 | Pali | (backporting to kernel-power?) |
| 10:26.46 | kerio | i didn't know g_nokia was in upstream :o |
| 10:26.52 | kerio | it would be neat, i suppose |
| 10:26.57 | kerio | but the UI won't support it properly |
| 10:27.17 | Pali | yes, this is reason why it will be hidden... |
| 10:27.25 | kerio | oic |
| 10:27.40 | Pali | and it need manual work for enabling... |
| 10:27.50 | kerio | well, we'd need to check that ovi suite/nokia suite still works with the modified g_nokia |
| 10:27.56 | kerio | if it does, then why not? it would be awesome |
| 10:28.50 | Pali | I cannot check if it is working with nokia/ovi suite... for unknown reason they did not relesed it for my distribution :-) |
| 10:28.57 | kerio | :D |
| 10:29.20 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@ip-62-245-106-78.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 10:29.24 | kerio | Pali: would it be a WONTFIX NOTABUG or a WONTFIX CANTREPRODUCE? |
| 10:29.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | thanks for void highlight :( |
| 10:30.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: sup? |
| 10:30.07 | kerio | it's not void! |
| 10:30.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | FU |
| 10:31.02 | kerio | your 05 client did something, i thought it was manual intervention and that you were online ._. |
| 10:31.12 | Pali | DocScrutinizer51, what do you think about g_nokia? ^^^^ |
| 10:31.24 | *** part/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@lagrange.cloud-7.de) |
| 10:31.43 | kerio | i don't get it |
| 10:39.02 | freemangordon | romaxa: I found the reason for bad performance of embedLite qml on fremantle - missing setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5NonComposited); |
| 10:40.06 | freemangordon | now, how to proceed - commit to embedlite (with appropriate Q_WS_MAEMO5 ifdefs) or in some other way? |
| 10:41.03 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 10:54.19 | Pali | what is this? http://hg.meego.com/ |
| 10:54.39 | Pali | Fennec (Mobile Firefox) repository clone for Meego Platform. |
| 10:54.51 | Pali | Meego had Fennec browser? |
| 10:55.10 | Pali | repository Flash? |
| 11:01.19 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@232.Red-81-35-93.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:01.19 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 11:01.30 | *** join/#maemo Superpelican (~Superpeli@D97817A8.cm-3-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 11:08.13 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@218.74.184.251) |
| 11:17.55 | *** join/#maemo lnxmen (~lnxmen@adnd68.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:23.50 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@250.Red-88-23-201.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:23.51 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 11:25.28 | *** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingute@86.92.226.97) |
| 11:27.57 | *** join/#maemo auenfx4 (David@171.72.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 11:30.49 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 11:33.41 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 11:34.14 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 11:36.37 | *** join/#maemo Hoolxi (~Openfree@183.195.228.229) |
| 11:39.45 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B48442.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:44.03 | *** join/#maemo arcean (~Arcean@aaeu63.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:53.33 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@212.255.237.99) |
| 11:57.22 | *** join/#maemo NeutrinoPower (~neutrino@HSI-KBW-095-208-090-223.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 11:58.54 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@lagrange.cloud-7.de) |
| 12:08.44 | thedead1440 | Pali: maybe its the same one that is on that n950 proto |
| 12:12.27 | qwazix | Pali, early versions of MeeGo CE had only fennec |
| 12:12.36 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@40.246.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 12:12.44 | qwazix | And it was pretty ok |
| 12:12.52 | qwazix | even themed correctly |
| 12:12.55 | ShadowJK | N9 has no fennec? |
| 12:13.06 | qwazix | ShadowJK, from the store |
| 12:13.13 | ShadowJK | right |
| 12:13.16 | qwazix | Close to unusable |
| 12:13.31 | ShadowJK | what |
| 12:13.38 | ShadowJK | even on gig of ram? |
| 12:13.43 | qwazix | Fennec, too slow. |
| 12:13.59 | qwazix | yeap, brings everything to a halt. |
| 12:14.10 | qwazix | It's all XUL's fault |
| 12:14.12 | kerio | weird, it's fairly usable on the n900 |
| 12:14.17 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:14.20 | qwazix | kerio, thumb |
| 12:14.26 | kerio | ofc |
| 12:14.34 | kerio | so? |
| 12:14.36 | qwazix | that's why |
| 12:14.45 | kerio | the N9 has more resources |
| 12:14.51 | kerio | it should run *at least* as fast |
| 12:15.02 | qwazix | No you don't say that fast |
| 12:15.16 | qwazix | You can use it but it's no fast |
| 12:15.32 | kerio | it's not fast on the n900 either |
| 12:15.39 | qwazix | while the non-thumb version on Maemo 5 is completely unusable |
| 12:16.03 | qwazix | Oh, now I saw *as* fast |
| 12:16.11 | qwazix | Yeah, it's about the same |
| 12:16.23 | kerio | ok then, it should be *faster* |
| 12:16.26 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178206128.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:16.31 | kerio | given same compiler and same sources |
| 12:16.35 | kerio | same-ish, i mean |
| 12:16.37 | *** join/#maemo Lunde (~user@1.38.30.16) |
| 12:16.52 | qwazix | Is it same compiler? Idk |
| 12:17.40 | qwazix | kerio, on N900 xul fennec is faster than xul fennec on android 1.5ghz 1g ram |
| 12:17.42 | thedead1440 | kerio: an older version of fennec on the N9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-rBI4okub0 |
| 12:18.11 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 12:22.07 | qwazix | Memory stats of fennec on various platforms http://play.qwazix.com/fennec mem stats.tar.gz |
| 12:25.22 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@aftr-178-200-236-194.unity-media.net) |
| 12:27.13 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B48442.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:36.05 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (~philip@codeminded.be) |
| 12:42.23 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@sign-4db6bfcc.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 12:42.23 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 12:54.24 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@177.40.32.151) |
| 13:00.23 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B16669A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:04.20 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-161-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 13:16.14 | *** join/#maemo Hoolxi (~Openfree@117.144.78.140) |
| 13:37.28 | *** join/#maemo ron0062000 (~ron006200@cpe-72-181-242-49.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 13:46.16 | *** join/#maemo tadzik (tjs@feather.perl6.nl) |
| 13:50.45 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 13:54.57 | *** join/#maemo bennypr0fane (~ben@vie-188-118-248-140.dsl.sil.at) |
| 13:56.58 | bennypr0fane | hello, I have a problem with updating my repos, here is a paste of apt-get update: http://pastebin.com/pRyet7vb I don't know what the error msgs mean :-( I'm on CSSU-thumb |
| 13:57.43 | thedead1440 | bennypr0fane: repos are down; you want temp mirrors see this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88707 |
| 13:58.07 | bennypr0fane | ah, so it's nothing wrong with my config |
| 13:58.12 | bennypr0fane | thanks |
| 13:58.14 | thedead1440 | see /topic |
| 13:58.16 | thedead1440 | np |
| 14:01.11 | bennypr0fane | so apparently not all maemo is down atm |
| 14:01.18 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@183.1.210.204) |
| 14:01.35 | bennypr0fane | seems to have transitioned rather ok |
| 14:02.36 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 14:03.09 | *** join/#maemo Lunde (~user@1.38.25.51) |
| 14:03.26 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@d56-215.icpnet.pl) |
| 14:03.26 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-) |
| 14:05.25 | Estel_ | question to scriptng "gurus" - anyone have idea, how to create a smart script, that, when xephyr is started under *chroot*, would run additional script (lets call it foo) under *maemo*, and, when xephyr is shutdown from chroot, would kill said "foo" from maemo, automagically? |
| 14:06.22 | Estel_ | so, basically, I'm thinking how to write script that runs "foo" under maemo and "bar" under chroot - then, when "bar" under chroot is killed, "foo" under maemo would die too |
| 14:06.26 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer51: Is git viewer on garage known to be broken? e.g. https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob_plain;hb=HEAD;f=package/po/hermes.pot |
| 14:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall that yes |
| 14:07.17 | romaxa | freemangordon: also one more thing you can do... change QImage::Format_RGB32 -> QImage::Format_RGB16 in qgraphicsmozview.cpp |
| 14:07.59 | romaxa | freemangordon: Q_WS_MAEMO5 ifdef should be fine |
| 14:08.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait |
| 14:08.45 | Estel_ | btw, freemangordon, thanks for your path to qmount for ED. Sadly, qole seems not so eager to release any new version of easy chroot, due to time and votes needed for it to reach extras again etc |
| 14:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I watched history of h-e-n kernel recently |
| 14:09.25 | Estel_ | so, maybe, when and *if* repos starts working again, I'll just merge it into -devel release |
| 14:10.28 | Estel_ | it's been months since you've submitted that path, and bug with "never-ending-loop-of-mounting" when ed sits in sd card and is mounted under "media" is indeed irritating |
| 14:11.59 | Estel_ | it would be good moment to fix the way debian's and maemo's /home/user is separated - now we're using funny workaround in onfirstchroot-ext.sh, which result in mounting /home/user from qmount and unmounting it half second later via script |
| 14:12.19 | *** join/#maemo Superpelican (~Superpeli@D97817A8.cm-3-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 14:13.07 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-182-151-122.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:13.16 | Estel_ | no reason why it couldn't be configurable from /home/user/.chroot ... Also, some mount -o options could go there too. It seems that qmount is requiring quite a rewrite *sigh* |
| 14:15.27 | Estel_ | I just finished incorporating sulu's workaround for sharing clipboard between Maemo and LXDE (strictly speaking, xephyr instance), and it'*s working great - problem is, that it require script syncing clipboards every few seconds. No problem in itself, as it's needed only when xephyr is running and hardly eat any resources, then - but would be battery killer if left during standby, after killing xephyr |
| 14:16.23 | Estel_ | thats why I need idea for a way of starting xephyr inside chroot and said script under maemo at the same time, and killing said script under maemo automagically, when xephyr inside chroot dies |
| 14:17.19 | Estel_ | any ideas welcome |
| 14:18.00 | thedead1440 | Estel_: not sure about chroot but shouldn't it be possible to add to the chroot script a dbus call that runs a script and when killed sends another dbus call to end script? |
| 14:19.08 | Estel_ | sounds OK'ish. I'm just complete noob when it comes to dbus, or even under-noob, as I never used it manually |
| 14:19.32 | Estel_ | strangely enough, never touched it with a long stick |
| 14:19.44 | Estel_ | also |
| 14:19.48 | Estel_ | there is problem... |
| 14:20.13 | Estel_ | I don't want to keep this script alive when chroot is alive, it would be trivial to do via onchroot and onclosechroot scripts |
| 14:20.37 | Estel_ | the thing is, that it must be alive only when certain program inside chroot is started... |
| 14:21.06 | Estel_ | i.e. chroot may be active for weeks, but i need clipboard-sync to live only for 5 minutes, when xephyr work |
| 14:21.14 | Estel_ | extreme example, just to highlight problem |
| 14:21.33 | Estel_ | xephyr *under* chroot, but clipboaerd-sync script lives under maemo, that is |
| 14:21.47 | Estel_ | sending dbus signal from chroot to maemo sounds problematic |
| 14:21.53 | Estel_ | or I'm to green on dbus ;) |
| 14:22.17 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@sign-4db6bfcc.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:22.18 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 14:23.02 | Estel_ | to be precise - starting clipboard-sync under maemo, when xephyr starts under debian's chroot, is trivial. Problem comes, when I want clipboard-sync to die too, when xephyr under chroot dies |
| 14:23.34 | Estel_ | something tells me, though, that instead of messing with dbus, it's just a matter of clever sh script... |
| 14:23.40 | thedead1440 | no idea then; i never knew that clipboard doesn't sync on ED on the N900... it sync fine on the N9 |
| 14:23.54 | thedead1440 | syncs* |
| 14:24.01 | Estel_ | well, for ed programs run under maemo, it sync |
| 14:24.17 | Estel_ | for xephyr, it doesnt, and never did, same apply for desktop's xephyr |
| 14:24.40 | Estel_ | so no idea how it can sync under harmattan... maybe someone bundledl xsel with it already? no idea |
| 14:25.16 | Estel_ | Literally, what I want to do should be achievable from under maemo *only*, too |
| 14:26.02 | Estel_ | basically, script that would run "debbie lxde" and "clipboard-sync" at the same time, and kill "clipboard-sync" when debbie lxde dies |
| 14:26.44 | Estel_ | this way, everything related to clipboard syncing would stay under maemo, without diving into chroot for signals... hm. |
| 14:27.08 | Estel_ | should be simple "while", then |
| 14:27.57 | thedead1440 | i used easy debian a long while back on the n900 but to run lxde you click an icon right? shouldn't you be able to add a path to script there? |
| 14:28.01 | Estel_ | while xephyr lives, do sync-clipboard every 2 seconds, else, die |
| 14:28.34 | *** join/#maemo rofl` (~rofl@i140008.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 14:28.49 | Estel_ | icon, or command from terminal... sure, thats why I said starting them simulatenously is trivial, it's all about killing sync script when xephyr dies |
| 14:29.08 | *** part/#maemo rofl` (~rofl@i140008.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 14:29.40 | Estel_ | killing it manually after every logout from xephyr would be pita, and forgotten most of the times, resulting in eating battery during standby |
| 14:29.45 | *** join/#maemo rofl` (~rofl@i140008.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 14:30.29 | Estel_ | anyway, thanks for construcive discussion, idea of keeping it all under maemo via bundling sync to *one* script with xephyr and "while" came to my mind during it ;) |
| 14:30.37 | Estel_ | and seems to be what I need |
| 14:31.31 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, you've asked if wiki mailing notification works |
| 14:31.50 | Estel_ | it does, just got message about jaffa messing with council page |
| 14:32.18 | kerio | Estel_: what's your mail provider? |
| 14:32.45 | *** part/#maemo bennypr0fane (~ben@vie-188-118-248-140.dsl.sil.at) |
| 14:33.08 | Estel_ | Great Ovil Ompire that Got Lies |
| 14:33.37 | Estel_ | aka google aka gmail |
| 14:33.55 | Estel_ | why asking? |
| 14:34.12 | kerio | maybe the dude who reported the problem initially has a pickier mail service |
| 14:34.17 | kerio | but usually gmail is picky enough |
| 14:34.55 | Estel_ | well, my gmail was taught to behave |
| 14:39.15 | jpinx | in the N900 is there a script to copy the complete address book files to a backup location of my choice - over ssh ? |
| 14:40.10 | rofl` | I just got my hands on a nokia n900.. I love this device! But the screen is a bit scratched up. Are the ebay Hong Kong screens good quality? |
| 14:40.58 | jpinx | rofl`: I've replace 2 screens now - easy enough but fiddly job |
| 14:41.08 | jpinx | I got one in UK and one in HK - both are ok |
| 14:41.32 | jpinx | the best thing I got was a heavy duty protector ;) |
| 14:42.00 | rofl` | yeah i ordered one as soon as i got my n900.. but i think it might be smart to replace the scratched screen before applying that |
| 14:42.09 | NIN101 | jpinx: I think you want to use scp. |
| 14:44.41 | jpinx | NIN101: no - what I want is something like this scrtipt fof sms messages... sqlite3 /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db "Select remote_uid, free_text, is_read, storage_time from Events where service_id=3 and event_type_id=11 order by storage_time asc" >> smscopies-$(date +%F).txt |
| 14:46.00 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: Estel_'s right; I was testing wiki editing for MWKN write-up. But sheesh - slow. |
| 14:47.24 | jpinx | DocScrutinizer05: will know excatly what I mean and where the page of scripts is ;) |
| 14:52.40 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 14:54.13 | kerio | rofl`: minor scratches will be "filled" in some sense, by the screen protector |
| 15:00.54 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 17:52.43 | *** join/#maemo infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 17:52.43 | *** topic/#maemo is $*.maemo.org is down - see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1314588 || Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 17:53.52 | qwazix | kerio I agree, but in this particular case, it's just much smoother to be on the top |
| 17:54.16 | qwazix | because it behaves like it's part of the page, not an overlay |
| 17:54.20 | freemangordon | qwazix: ever seen my QtMWeb? |
| 17:54.29 | qwazix | freemangordon, no |
| 17:54.33 | kerio | well, if it's smoother, i'll just tell my fingers to teleport to the top of the screen |
| 17:54.49 | freemangordon | qwazix: ok, forget about it |
| 17:55.08 | kerio | i just don't think it's a good idea to blindly copy the iphone |
| 17:55.14 | kerio | just because it looks cool |
| 17:55.43 | qwazix | kerio, copy the iphone?!!1?? |
| 17:56.08 | freemangordon | qwazix: BTW I was under the impession that marxian's components are not fulscreen |
| 17:56.28 | qwazix | kerio, maemo 5 UI beats iphone in every conceivable way |
| 17:56.33 | kerio | qwazix: i don't really see any difference, apart for the fact that we have "slide from top" instead of "touch the top bar" |
| 17:56.36 | kerio | qwazix: i agree |
| 17:56.38 | qwazix | freemangordon, it's just an option |
| 17:56.38 | *** join/#maemo tadzik (tjs@feather.perl6.nl) |
| 17:56.42 | kerio | so why should our browser go down in quality? |
| 17:57.09 | qwazix | kerio, touch the top bar on iphone scrolls the page up |
| 17:57.36 | qwazix | it doesn't bring the toolbar (which IIRC is always on) |
| 17:57.57 | kerio | the *bottom* toolbar |
| 17:58.09 | freemangordon | qwazix: imagine then what a mess will be if you address bar is on the top, with hildon-status-menu visible |
| 17:58.13 | qwazix | viewer.showFullScreen(); or viewer.showExpanded(); |
| 17:59.22 | freemangordon | qwazix: ofc it is up to you, but i mixture between microb and opera is what will fit best IMO |
| 17:59.32 | freemangordon | s/i/a |
| 17:59.37 | qwazix | freemangordon, I don't understand, you can't see what's in the microb address bar anyway when hildon-status-menu is open |
| 18:00.01 | freemangordon | you can, if microb is not fullscreen |
| 18:00.17 | qwazix | It's blurred |
| 18:00.18 | freemangordon | addreaa bar is visible |
| 18:00.24 | freemangordon | *address |
| 18:00.32 | freemangordon | naah, you got me wrong |
| 18:01.21 | freemangordon | maemo5 UI requires (AIUI) applications to be able to run unfullscreened |
| 18:01.45 | freemangordon | in that case you'll have (from top to bottom): |
| 18:01.51 | freemangordon | 1: hildon menu |
| 18:01.55 | kerio | freemangordon: maps lol |
| 18:01.56 | qwazix | But we've implemented the address bar inside the app (that's how qml works in all platforms) |
| 18:01.57 | freemangordon | 2. address bar |
| 18:02.13 | freemangordon | qwazix: and you think this is ok? |
| 18:02.24 | qwazix | s/titlebar/address/ |
| 18:02.40 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:02.47 | qwazix | freemangordon, why not? it's going to be exactly the same |
| 18:02.56 | qwazix | and it can be pushed away |
| 18:03.03 | freemangordon | qwazix: aah, yes, 2 is titlebar, 3 is addressbar |
| 18:03.04 | kerio | the titlebar, when visible, should be on the same line as the hildon status area, the tasknav button, and the close button |
| 18:03.22 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 18:03.24 | kerio | if qml can't do that, qml is not fit for maemo |
| 18:03.36 | qwazix | kerio, it can do that |
| 18:03.41 | freemangordon | yep, it can |
| 18:03.50 | freemangordon | it is Qt |
| 18:03.50 | qwazix | It just enables you to copy the addressbar inside the app |
| 18:03.58 | qwazix | so that you can do more awesome things |
| 18:04.32 | freemangordon | qwazix: what do you mean (in terms of hildon) when you say "addressbar"? |
| 18:04.38 | kerio | the toolbar should be on the bottom, possibly hidden, kinda like microb |
| 18:04.42 | qwazix | Copying microb exactly is the easiest thing of all. I just thought to do something a bit better |
| 18:04.49 | qwazix | freemangordon, that was a typo |
| 18:04.52 | kerio | microb is fairly awesome, though |
| 18:04.53 | qwazix | I meant title bar |
| 18:04.53 | freemangordon | qwazix: aah, ok |
| 18:05.13 | qwazix | the whole thing with minimise, status area, title, X |
| 18:05.15 | kerio | a distinct improvement would be to do what mobilesafari on iphoneos6 does when fullscreen |
| 18:05.25 | kerio | also show a translucent "back" button |
| 18:05.41 | qwazix | kerio, swipe from right edge :) |
| 18:05.48 | freemangordon | qwazix: you can do it better by removing the unfullscreen button and use swipe gesture or something |
| 18:06.03 | kerio | qwazix: i don't really like swiping, and that (on microb) only gives you the recent history |
| 18:06.10 | freemangordon | but I don;t think putting the address bar on the top does it better |
| 18:06.14 | qwazix | kerio, I'm not copying microb |
| 18:06.15 | kerio | it's often faster to unfullscreen, touch "back", and fullscreen |
| 18:06.41 | kerio | also, "hidden" UI features like that are quite unintuitive :c |
| 18:06.49 | kerio | feels like a jerk for criticizing |
| 18:06.56 | freemangordon | qwazix: I am using opera every day, trust me, having address bar on top is a pita, esp in portrait |
| 18:07.03 | qwazix | freemangordon, since I have finished that part, when we have something usable I'll make an option to have address at bottom |
| 18:07.08 | qwazix | so we're all happy |
| 18:07.14 | freemangordon | :) |
| 18:07.28 | freemangordon | ok |
| 18:07.49 | freemangordon | lets see if cloning latest embedlite has finished :) |
| 18:08.03 | freemangordon | fuck, only on 30% |
| 18:08.09 | qwazix | Now to the technical part, working with ui is much, much faster on simulator |
| 18:08.31 | qwazix | (because you have to see little changes, such pixel sizes and such |
| 18:08.40 | qwazix | that's why I used a qml webview |
| 18:09.08 | qwazix | Is there a way to not have to build embedlite each time I make a little change? |
| 18:09.32 | qwazix | (apart from sshing the device and editing the qml files remotely) |
| 18:09.39 | kerio | srsly though, address on top is stupid |
| 18:09.50 | kerio | we've got so much horizontal estate, we can afford to put the address bar on the bottom toolbar |
| 18:09.55 | freemangordon | qwazix: cd to obj.../embed../empedlite/ |
| 18:10.01 | freemangordon | and make there |
| 18:10.05 | kerio | in portrait, we might as well copy the iphone, it works well for them |
| 18:10.30 | kerio | unless... |
| 18:10.36 | kerio | how flexible is the title bar? |
| 18:10.48 | qwazix | kerio, fully |
| 18:10.59 | freemangordon | kerio: you don;t have space in title bar ;) |
| 18:11.05 | kerio | freemangordon: sure we do |
| 18:11.05 | freemangordon | esp in portrait |
| 18:11.10 | qwazix | yes, not enough |
| 18:11.13 | kerio | portrait is a whole another bag of BS |
| 18:11.17 | kerio | in landscape |
| 18:11.20 | kerio | the hildon titlebar |
| 18:11.21 | freemangordon | no, you can;t use it as text input |
| 18:11.27 | qwazix | even in landscape it's too short |
| 18:11.38 | freemangordon | because in portrait there is no enough space |
| 18:11.45 | kerio | freemangordon: touch titlebar, address appears, covering everything |
| 18:11.50 | kerio | we won't have the menu, though... |
| 18:11.51 | kerio | hmm |
| 18:12.03 | freemangordon | kerio: that is fulscreen |
| 18:12.10 | freemangordon | *fullscreen |
| 18:12.24 | kerio | votes for copying microb, but with the addition of a transparent "back" button in fullscreen |
| 18:12.26 | bef0rd | BB10 browser has the address bar at bottom too |
| 18:12.29 | kerio | (in landscape) |
| 18:12.29 | qwazix | kerio, I do agree that if the bar is fixed it's better at the bottom. But if you want it not always there, you can't push it over from the bottom. You have to have a button to hide it |
| 18:12.38 | qwazix | or hide it when scrolling starts |
| 18:12.47 | freemangordon | qwazix: exactly |
| 18:12.54 | kerio | i want my fullscreen and my toolbared modes to be distinct |
| 18:12.54 | qwazix | both are a bit intrusive, and give no idea to the user how to bring it back |
| 18:13.08 | kerio | the fullscreen button isn't intrusive, and is quite intuitive |
| 18:13.18 | freemangordon | and open it with either swipe or kbd press |
| 18:13.45 | freemangordon | or translucent button |
| 18:13.49 | kerio | freemangordon: hell no, kbd press goes to the page |
| 18:13.51 | *** join/#maemo wirr (~wirr@xdsl-188-155-55-161.adslplus.ch) |
| 18:13.59 | kerio | ctrl+l, maybe |
| 18:14.06 | freemangordon | kerio: what? |
| 18:14.13 | wirr | ~mirrors |
| 18:14.13 | infobot | somebody said mirror was http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 18:14.27 | kerio | ever tried using google reader with the "highlight address bar on keyboard press" option in microb? |
| 18:14.29 | kerio | it's hell |
| 18:14.30 | qwazix | freemangordon, how does embedlite respond to keyboard? |
| 18:14.48 | freemangordon | qwazix: no idea, lemme test |
| 18:14.52 | kerio | google reader, or any keyboard-shortcut-heavy website |
| 18:14.53 | qwazix | like a normal application, or does it ignore everything? |
| 18:15.18 | freemangordon | qwazix: what do you need me to test? |
| 18:15.22 | freemangordon | which keys |
| 18:15.28 | qwazix | arrows first |
| 18:15.37 | qwazix | both when in a textfield and outside |
| 18:15.41 | freemangordon | OMG |
| 18:15.44 | qwazix | (on fennec neither worked) |
| 18:16.00 | freemangordon | it clears a stripes from top to the bottom |
| 18:16.04 | freemangordon | on down arrow :D |
| 18:16.07 | kerio | also, often this is what i use, with microb: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1405219/Screenshot-20130120-191506.png |
| 18:16.26 | freemangordon | and redraws them back on top arrow |
| 18:16.32 | kerio | (disable fullscreen inside microb, then enable fullscreen with xdotool) |
| 18:16.35 | qwazix | hahaha |
| 18:16.45 | freemangordon | let/right arrow do nothing |
| 18:17.19 | qwazix | that's not a very good sign |
| 18:17.22 | kerio | mostly because of the lack of a "back" button apart for backspace |
| 18:17.51 | *** join/#maemo arcean_ (~Arcean@aafq209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:17.58 | qwazix | last thing, is there a way to enable cursor mode on embedlite (i.e. disable kinetic scrolling?) |
| 18:18.21 | freemangordon | qwazix: it is not the latest I am using, will re-test when git clone and build finish |
| 18:18.29 | qwazix | ok |
| 18:18.39 | wirr | freemangordon, you've been working on kernel a lot, isn't it? have you been successful running a current kernel with maemo, using TI's armhf SDK? |
| 18:19.05 | freemangordon | qwazix: I guess it is romaxa to answer on that question, I guess it is some setting |
| 18:19.27 | qwazix | Ok, I'll ask him when he's around |
| 18:19.30 | freemangordon | wirr: no. and never tried as it is bound to fail |
| 18:19.36 | *** join/#maemo totalizator_ (~totalizat@89-79-239-132.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 18:19.55 | wirr | freemangordon, bound to fail? how's that? sorry if that's a stupid question... |
| 18:20.05 | freemangordon | you can;t mix hardfp/softfp libs, at least not easily |
| 18:20.35 | wirr | ah, yes i see, of course you're right |
| 18:21.22 | freemangordon | wirr: what I did is to boot maemo with 3.5 with SGX driver from fremantle kernel |
| 18:21.46 | freemangordon | with only some cosmetic changes in userland |
| 18:22.17 | wirr | ah... so basically you can use the sgx binary blobs with a newer kernel? no need to fiddle around with the sdk? |
| 18:22.32 | freemangordon | mind you "to boot" does not meen "in usable state" :D. particularly mce was crashing every second, because of the changed kernel interfaces |
| 18:22.52 | freemangordon | WielkiTost: basically yes |
| 18:22.59 | freemangordon | oops, EUSER |
| 18:23.05 | WielkiTost | :) |
| 18:23.06 | freemangordon | wirr: ^^^ |
| 18:24.46 | wirr | freemangordon, I see, thanks. anyhow, nothing big to be gained by using a newer kernel on n900, right? I'll rather try running hildon-desktop on emdebian armhf... |
| 18:26.50 | qwazix | freemangordon, where is embedlite repo? The link romaxa posted on tmo (github) gives 404 |
| 18:27.03 | freemangordon | https://github.com/tmeshkova/mozilla-central/tree/embedlite |
| 18:27.09 | qwazix | ty |
| 18:28.30 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@bzq-79-176-177-193.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 18:28.30 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@funtoo/user/ZogG) |
| 18:30.38 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e250:8401:fcb4:5c92:a4a2:c74b) |
| 18:32.01 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@bzq-79-176-177-193.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 18:32.01 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@funtoo/user/ZogG) |
| 18:40.51 | *** join/#maemo warfaren (~warfaren@c83-251-251-19.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:42.21 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@port-90573.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 18:46.41 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e250:8401:fcb4:5c92:a4a2:c74b) |
| 18:49.53 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 18:50.11 | romaxa | freemangordon: IIUC you build engine without maemo platform define |
| 19:04.08 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 19:04.11 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@Jade.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 19:04.11 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 19:08.15 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (~philip@codeminded.be) |
| 19:12.29 | *** join/#maemo WizardNumberNext (~marek@2001:470:1f08:178b:92e6:baff:fe50:bed4) |
| 19:13.20 | WizardNumberNext | any progress on repo? |
| 19:15.16 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 19:22.19 | *** join/#maemo thetet (~raggam-nl@194-166-68-137.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:27.20 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 19:27.49 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@host49-60-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:33.02 | *** join/#maemo jimmyy (jimmyy@218.59.116.38) |
| 19:33.30 | *** join/#maemo jimmyy (jimmyy@218.59.116.38) |
| 19:34.04 | *** join/#maemo jimmyy (jimmyy@218.59.116.38) |
| 19:34.34 | *** join/#maemo jimmyy (jimmyy@218.59.116.38) |
| 19:35.57 | *** join/#maemo eijk_ (~eijk@e178228119.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:36.22 | *** join/#maemo jimmyy (jimmyy@218.59.116.38) |
| 19:37.34 | *** join/#maemo jimmyy (jimmyy@218.59.116.38) |
| 19:38.50 | *** join/#maemo dRbiG (drbig@unhallowed.pl) |
| 19:39.27 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 19:46.04 | *** join/#maemo Corsac (~yap@molly.corsac.net) |
| 19:51.36 | *** join/#maemo rofl` (~rofl@i140008.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 20:05.25 | *** join/#maemo warfaren (~warfaren@c83-251-251-19.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 20:08.12 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 20:10.36 | fil | wc |
| 20:10.40 | *** part/#maemo fil (~phil@switch.hands.com) |
| 20:10.48 | kerio | wat |
| 20:11.07 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-9058.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 20:13.49 | *** join/#maemo Oakim (~Oakim@web.jc-mp.com) |
| 20:16.39 | rofl` | i'm trying to install 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2+thumb0 but it keeps on asking me to do a backup first.. even after doing a backup via the nokiasuite |
| 20:17.18 | kerio | huh |
| 20:17.28 | kerio | do a backup? |
| 20:17.50 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 20:18.03 | kerio | i think you're misunderstanding, and HAM is helping your misunderstanding by telling you that "something's wrong, use nokia suite" |
| 20:18.24 | rofl` | i went to HAM, there clicked refresh and it showed this update, so when i tried to do the update it asked me to do a backup first |
| 20:18.38 | kerio | there's nothing in HAM that says "do a backup" |
| 20:19.06 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 20:19.31 | rofl` | "to update your device to this version of the operating system you need nokia pc suite. Connect your device via usb cable to your PC and start the program" |
| 20:19.40 | *** join/#maemo thumbs (1000@unaffiliated/thumbs) |
| 20:19.44 | *** part/#maemo thumbs (1000@unaffiliated/thumbs) |
| 20:19.48 | kerio | i don't see the word "backup" in there |
| 20:19.50 | rofl` | and a button: do a backup |
| 20:19.51 | tadzik | oh, do you have more than 1 update available? |
| 20:19.54 | tadzik | rofl`: ^ |
| 20:20.02 | rofl` | yes |
| 20:20.11 | kerio | tadzik: what would the other update be? |
| 20:20.13 | tadzik | are you trying to install them all at once? |
| 20:20.23 | tadzik | kerio: no idea. But I remember one of the thumb updates acting this way |
| 20:20.26 | rofl` | several libgtm files |
| 20:20.36 | tadzik | and the solution was "RTFM" aka "update X first and then Y" |
| 20:20.46 | tadzik | not sure if related |
| 20:20.56 | kerio | rofl`: as of now, the update can also fail due to repos being down |
| 20:21.00 | kerio | but the error message would be different |
| 20:21.07 | rofl` | oh i did update the repos |
| 20:21.15 | kerio | do the system update only |
| 20:21.43 | rofl` | yes, if i click on the maemo 5 community SSU package (thumb) it gave me that message |
| 20:21.46 | kerio | "Maemo 5 Community SSU Package(thumb)" |
| 20:21.48 | kerio | hm |
| 20:21.51 | kerio | try "update all" |
| 20:22.05 | kerio | which mirror are you using? |
| 20:22.08 | kerio | for community-testing |
| 20:23.21 | rofl` | community ssu (testing-thumb)? |
| 20:23.38 | kerio | you need a community-testing repo, and a community-thumb repo |
| 20:24.42 | rofl` | maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-thumb for community ssu (testing thumb) |
| 20:25.05 | kerio | that doesn't include the stuff in community-testing |
| 20:25.11 | kerio | and that's not its name |
| 20:25.40 | kerio | the name is "Community SSU (thumb)" |
| 20:25.43 | kerio | for a reason |
| 20:31.53 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 20:34.16 | *** join/#maemo NeutrinoPower (~neutrino@HSI-KBW-095-208-090-223.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 20:35.05 | *** join/#maemo fil (~phil@switch.hands.com) |
| 20:48.21 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 20:55.53 | wirr | is the autobuilder a dedicated virtual server or rather a service running on garage? |
| 20:59.35 | merlin1991 | the autobuilder was several dedicated servers |
| 20:59.39 | merlin1991 | atm it's nothing |
| 21:00.54 | kerio | do we really need more than one? |
| 21:01.00 | wirr | merlin1991, i'm trying to update the migration page on the wiki.. i'm aware it's not running right now. frontend to autobuilder used to be garage & drop, right? |
| 21:01.39 | merlin1991 | drop yes, no idea where the upload page was sitting exactly |
| 21:01.55 | merlin1991 | but most probably garage |
| 21:02.25 | wirr | ok... but the actual build service was not running on drop, but on a dedicated machine behind it? |
| 21:02.32 | merlin1991 | yes |
| 21:02.57 | wirr | ok... |
| 21:03.20 | wirr | another one: on the old wiki page there was mention of "Voting Infrastructure / Servers". does that ring a bell to anyone? |
| 21:04.20 | merlin1991 | well there is the voting setup, but I have nfc where that was sitting physically |
| 21:06.23 | wirr | ok. i'll leave that open. |
| 21:08.09 | wirr | and last but not least: do i assume correctly that most of us depend on scratchbox for cross-compilation? Scratchbox seems to be hosted at logica, do we need to include it in the community-infrastructure as well? |
| 21:09.07 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@cpe-24-27-111-228.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 21:11.18 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 21:18.37 | kerio | 802.11n sucks :( |
| 21:18.47 | kerio | i can only get about 5MB/s from my NAS |
| 21:19.30 | *** join/#maemo sgosiaco (6c1704b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.23.4.177) |
| 21:20.37 | nox- | guess why i only use wifi for the n900... |
| 21:20.50 | kerio | because there's no gigabit ethernet? |
| 21:20.56 | kerio | i should probably buy a longer cable |
| 21:20.59 | kerio | one that gets to my bed |
| 21:21.01 | wirr | anyone knows about the vbulletin license used on tmo? |
| 21:21.03 | nox- | heh |
| 21:21.10 | kerio | wirr: what about it? |
| 21:21.44 | nox- | s/only use wifi/use wifi only/ |
| 21:23.29 | kerio | nox-: how do you get ethernet cables in your bathroom? :o |
| 21:23.49 | wirr | kerio, on the old wiki page it says we probably need a new one. has this issue been sorted out? |
| 21:24.16 | kerio | 20.12.2012 19:56:19 USD -249 0 -249 vBulletin License purchase |
| 21:24.16 | nox- | kerio, i can s**t w/o computer :) |
| 21:24.26 | kerio | nox-: you're missing out! |
| 21:24.30 | nox- | haha |
| 21:24.37 | kerio | also, you can write "shit" on the internet |
| 21:24.53 | nox- | :P |
| 21:26.19 | wirr | kerio, great. can you tell me until when it's valid (if it expires) and what options it includes so i update the wiki? |
| 21:26.29 | kerio | idk, ask board |
| 21:29.02 | *** join/#maemo wmarone (~wmarone@c-67-174-151-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:39.02 | *** join/#maemo Broscar (~root@ip503dc551.speed.planet.nl) |
| 21:43.11 | MohammadAG | <kerio> 802.11n sucks :( |
| 21:43.24 | MohammadAG | I get 72MBps out of the supposed 450 |
| 21:43.40 | MohammadAG | with 802.11g I got 48/54 |
| 21:47.20 | *** join/#maemo WizardNumberNext (~marek@2001:470:1f08:178b:92e6:baff:fe50:bed4) |
| 21:52.39 | wirr | ~hosts |
| 21:56.35 | wirr | has updated http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure |
| 21:56.52 | wirr | Please keep the page up-to-date and fill in the remaining gaps |
| 22:00.19 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:02.20 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: N has about 90% overheads |
| 22:02.33 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: compared to 20% on b/g |
| 22:05.13 | WizardNumberNext | jacekowski: do you talk about 802.11? |
| 22:06.14 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:06.34 | *** join/#maemo Creteil (dtc@lns-bzn-51f-62-147-196-247.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 22:06.40 | Creteil | Can someone have a look at : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88722 |
| 22:06.41 | Creteil | It's many days now I try to push anything to auto-builder but without success ... |
| 22:07.16 | WizardNumberNext | actually 802.11B have biggest overhead compared to its speed, 802.11G - I got around 3.2MiB/s TOP from 54mbps, 802.11N have slightly bigger overhead, then 802.11G, but you gain on speed of HT, so why bother |
| 22:07.32 | jacekowski | no you fon'y |
| 22:07.35 | jacekowski | don't* |
| 22:07.56 | jacekowski | 300Mbit N in some cases will give you 90% overhead |
| 22:08.18 | jacekowski | and normally around 70% |
| 22:08.30 | jacekowski | that's barely faster than g |
| 22:08.32 | WizardNumberNext | 802.11G fixes some problems of 802.11B with short-preamble (most cards can do short-preamble on speeds 2,6,11 mbps |
| 22:08.49 | WizardNumberNext | how do you measure it? |
| 22:09.13 | WizardNumberNext | I was getting 66mbps of usefull transfer on N |
| 22:09.20 | wirr | Creteil, autobuilder is offline at the time being |
| 22:09.30 | *** join/#maemo jyrjyr_ (~jyrjyr@62.236.108.222) |
| 22:09.33 | jacekowski | i'm not measuring it, i've read the spec |
| 22:09.59 | jacekowski | unless devices can do frame aggregation (most do, but there are some that don't) you get 90% overheads |
| 22:10.13 | WizardNumberNext | thats nowhere close to G (26.8mbps max in TCP) |
| 22:10.39 | WizardNumberNext | read it again |
| 22:10.58 | WizardNumberNext | you get a lot of overhead but not soi much |
| 22:11.07 | jacekowski | nope |
| 22:11.11 | jacekowski | overheads on G are much lower |
| 22:11.20 | WizardNumberNext | are you sending 20bytes packets only? |
| 22:11.37 | jacekowski | 802.11n is slow even for 1500 without frame aggregation |
| 22:11.48 | WizardNumberNext | sorry, but plain G can send up to 24xx bytes at once |
| 22:12.17 | jacekowski | theoretically |
| 22:12.19 | WizardNumberNext | without frae aggregation it is slower |
| 22:12.38 | jacekowski | frame aggregation on g is non existient |
| 22:12.50 | WizardNumberNext | obvioulsy, because without frame aggregation it is G running on N |
| 22:13.17 | WizardNumberNext | frame aggregation is possible ONLY if you are using HT |
| 22:13.39 | Creteil | wirr, any ETA to the resurection of auto-builder ? |
| 22:13.44 | WizardNumberNext | without HT you have 54mbps to use with N overheads, obviously slower, then G |
| 22:14.21 | WizardNumberNext | frame aggregation wasn't (and isn't) needed on G |
| 22:14.31 | jacekowski | it's not needed on n as well |
| 22:14.48 | WizardNumberNext | aggregate what? frames which comes one after another? |
| 22:15.17 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:15.26 | WizardNumberNext | frame aggregation works only on two channels, one sends one frame another another frame |
| 22:15.27 | jacekowski | and even though spec says it's required |
| 22:15.43 | jacekowski | no |
| 22:15.49 | WizardNumberNext | wait which spec do you read? |
| 22:15.56 | jacekowski | frame aggregation works in completely different way |
| 22:16.03 | wirr | Creteil, unfortunately not afaik |
| 22:16.28 | WizardNumberNext | where it is stated, I would love to see it |
| 22:16.47 | WizardNumberNext | because if it is true, then I was wrong all the time |
| 22:16.55 | jacekowski | there is only one spec |
| 22:17.08 | WizardNumberNext | page please |
| 22:17.13 | Creteil | Well, anyhow thanks ... |
| 22:17.16 | WizardNumberNext | I hyave it on my desktop or server |
| 22:17.51 | jacekowski | 802.11n-2009 |
| 22:18.07 | WizardNumberNext | anyway my adaptor work only up to 38xx bytes, so no real improvement |
| 22:18.33 | WizardNumberNext | I cannot do 76xx frames on my RaLink RT3070 |
| 22:18.58 | jacekowski | yes |
| 22:19.08 | jacekowski | that's why i'm saying that although aggregation is required |
| 22:19.27 | jacekowski | it's almost useless |
| 22:20.28 | jacekowski | it's great if you don't care about latencies and aggreagate up to the maximum of 65k |
| 22:20.31 | jacekowski | 64k* |
| 22:21.56 | jacekowski | http://www.cwnp.com/cwnp_wifi_blog/802-11n-line-rate-vs-data-rate-part-1-frame-aggregation/ |
| 22:22.10 | jacekowski | somebody has bothered to work out all the numbers |
| 22:23.31 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:26.50 | *** join/#maemo fuchs__ (~fuchs@sign-4db60478.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:28.03 | *** join/#maemo sgosiaco (~sgosiaco@pool-108-23-4-177.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:28.32 | WizardNumberNext | ok, then where in hell he can find 802.11n card, which is capable of sending 64k frames? |
| 22:29.08 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:29.16 | WizardNumberNext | I never got any, which is able to send 7935B at once |
| 22:29.24 | WizardNumberNext | mine does half |
| 22:30.27 | WizardNumberNext | 3839B to be exact |
| 22:31.13 | jacekowski | i don't think any cards can do |
| 22:31.28 | jacekowski | but wireless bridges/access points can |
| 22:35.18 | WizardNumberNext | jacekowski: what is in bridges/APs? magic black box? NO, those contain ordinary 802.11 cards! Nothing ELSE! |
| 22:35.43 | WizardNumberNext | They does exactly same job as cards, which they are based on |
| 22:37.21 | WizardNumberNext | start hunting for good 802.11 hardware (just chips for it, not a complete card) and you will see - nothing out of ordinary. All of what you can find, you will find on market on ordinary cards |
| 22:38.46 | WizardNumberNext | there are small exeption like TI TWL1xxx (1251 1253 1273 17xx) and other such chips for mobile/embedded market |
| 22:39.00 | WizardNumberNext | but you still can get hold of such device |
| 22:40.31 | WizardNumberNext | I used TI acx111 in laptop for few weeks (it is very hard to get this card and it is next to useless, if you would not pull firmware from router/AP) |
| 22:40.56 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:42.42 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 22:44.29 | *** join/#maemo fuchs__ (~fuchs@sign-4d09431a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:45.50 | *** join/#maemo PocketWulfe (~N810@74.61.223.51) |
| 22:48.54 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:51.33 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:52.40 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 23:06.00 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 23:08.54 | jacekowski | WizardNumberNext: not exactly |
| 23:09.03 | jacekowski | WizardNumberNext: they run in different mode |
| 23:09.22 | jacekowski | WizardNumberNext: and quite often with different firmware |
| 23:09.34 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 23:10.42 | WizardNumberNext | I know, but still, if hardware have limitation you cannot fix that limitation with firmware |
| 23:10.55 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-84-220-243-150.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 23:11.38 | WizardNumberNext | it would be like fixing phenom processor to buldozer processor with simple microcode update - that is not possible |
| 23:12.13 | FIQ | :p |
| 23:18.33 | jacekowski | very often hardware is limited because they want to sell it as cheaper model |
| 23:18.49 | jacekowski | but in case of wifi it's because frame aggregation increases delays |
| 23:20.53 | *** join/#maemo arcean (~arcean@aafq209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:24.34 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 23:38.17 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-84-220-57-50.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 23:50.17 | *** join/#maemo plwweasel (~plwweasel@unaffiliated/plwweasel) |
| 23:58.13 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~MetalGear@123.136.106.160) |
