| 00:00.59 | ShadowJK | It woudl help if you'd get feedback |
| 00:01.36 | ShadowJK | N900 does this really well. The delay between touching screen, and vibrator acknowledging it, is reallyy low, and it's consitently really low |
| 00:01.51 | ShadowJK | And I'm using the quadcore tablet as comparison here. |
| 00:02.21 | fastlane` | yea |
| 00:02.58 | ShadowJK | N800 and N810 had sound feedback, but the sound dsp on them were somewhat unreliable... :) |
| 00:04.22 | fastlane` | in the times of n810, i really wanted to buy it, i was soooooo fascinated by that device but i had no money |
| 00:04.40 | fastlane` | really awesome screen |
| 00:05.02 | ShadowJK | the touch layer on N900 is much better |
| 00:05.39 | ShadowJK | But on N800 and N810 screen, the touch layer is like 1mm or less above the display layer..really nice in that sense |
| 00:05.59 | ShadowJK | on N900 it feels a bit like the "window" you touch is a mile above the screen that produces the contents |
| 00:07.01 | ShadowJK | Like if you take stylus, and put it down on the screen on some specific point, and then look at it from different angles, you'll find that the point shifts location depending on the angle you look at the screen |
| 00:07.57 | ShadowJK | still uses N800 and N810 :-) |
| 00:08.04 | fastlane` | :) |
| 00:09.28 | ShadowJK | I bought a new microsd card for my N800 |
| 00:09.30 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@host10-62-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 00:09.43 | ShadowJK | One that has stellar random I/O performance |
| 00:09.49 | fastlane` | which one |
| 00:09.51 | ShadowJK | with swap on it, the difference is like night and way |
| 00:09.59 | fastlane` | cool |
| 00:10.01 | ShadowJK | iirc "A-data ultra speed" |
| 00:11.12 | fastlane` | hmm |
| 00:11.21 | ShadowJK | "AUSDH16GUI1-RA1 ADATA 16GB Ultra High Speed MicroSDHC" |
| 00:11.23 | xes | hmmm |
| 00:11.28 | ShadowJK | Ot |
| 00:11.47 | ShadowJK | It's not entirely reliable, it failed in my benchmarks. :-) |
| 00:12.03 | xes | ahh |
| 00:12.19 | ShadowJK | Seems to work reliably enough in my N800 though, approaching 3 weeks of uptime |
| 00:12.31 | Sysaxed_ | n900 has sound feedback too |
| 00:12.58 | ShadowJK | I think 1-2 week was the norm with the older cards, there the limit was mostly that the cards were so slow that watchdog kicked in |
| 00:13.58 | fastlane` | iirc adata has some very nice n affordable SSDs also, |
| 00:14.23 | fastlane` | will get a ssd for his laptop .... one day !!! |
| 00:14.38 | halXI | hello, about n900 maemo, you know if repos are offline? |
| 00:15.10 | xes | am i wrong or the biggest a-data uSD is 32GB? |
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| 00:15.17 | Sysaxed_ | halXI, they're not |
| 00:15.47 | Sysaxed_ | I was installing different stuff the whole day |
| 00:16.06 | xes | halXI: perfectly working... |
| 00:16.17 | fastlane` | apt-get update seems to be working fine |
| 00:16.19 | fastlane` | right now. |
| 00:16.37 | Sysaxed_ | btw, how can I autostart something? Somehow google forgot maemo wiki pages so I can't find it :( |
| 00:16.49 | fastlane` | :O |
| 00:17.09 | halXI | apt-get update tell me gpg keyexpired |
| 00:17.34 | Sysaxed_ | halXI, as far as I remember it's fine |
| 00:18.20 | xes | ShadowJK: i would buy a new 64GB uSD... (wikipedia is so big..) Which card do you suggest? |
| 00:18.28 | halXI | so it must be my phone |
| 00:19.05 | fastlane` | howcome i can find ADATA 16GB Ultra High Speed MicroSDHC on amazon's uk website but not on amazon.com :o |
| 00:19.42 | ShadowJK | xes, 64g is beyond my affordabilty. For 16g I can afford buying a bunch of them and use the best I get. |
| 00:20.12 | Sysaxed_ | anybody? what was that wiki page about upstart, event.d and other related stuff |
| 00:20.16 | fastlane` | and adata's promier pro 32gb usd card is for $77 :OOOO |
| 00:20.19 | ShadowJK | But generally, if there's a sandisk android edition 64g, I'd probably try that one :-) |
| 00:20.19 | fastlane` | no go! |
| 00:20.36 | halXI | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 Sub-process bzip2 returned an error 1 |
| 00:21.16 | xes | ShadowJK: thanks, i'll look for that.. |
| 00:21.47 | ShadowJK | btw, just because a company (like adata or sandisk) has 6 different speed of cards, doesn't mean that their "fastest" actually will be fastest. :-) |
| 00:21.54 | fastlane` | http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_FAQ only one i can find Sysaxed_ |
| 00:22.53 | ShadowJK | The old sandisk Class 4 uSD card was the fastest card on the market at the time, beating competitor Class 10 cards easily, and beating sandisk's class 6 cards too :-) |
| 00:23.20 | fastlane` | time for me to hit the bed |
| 00:23.27 | fastlane` | \o/ |
| 00:23.37 | ShadowJK | The new sandisk class 4 is woefully slow. :) |
| 00:23.41 | xes | And this one? http://goo.gl/yY35K |
| 00:24.10 | ShadowJK | No clue. You basically wont know until you get it. |
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| 00:24.49 | ShadowJK | There's a trend with UHS cards, they tend to perform really slow with SDHC hosts. |
| 00:25.00 | ShadowJK | (in some respects) |
| 00:25.48 | ShadowJK | That adata card I mentioned, I only get 3MByte/s with it on N800, but it's still the fastest card I've used on N800 when I put the swapfile on it :-) |
| 00:26.21 | ShadowJK | If you just want to store files on it, a non-UHS Class-10 Sandisk card is probably the best there is |
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| 00:26.35 | ShadowJK | If you want to try boost performance, the hunt is on :) |
| 00:27.26 | xes | i understand....considering the cost ad the risk..... the impression is that it would be better to wait some time for that size of memory card |
| 00:27.58 | ShadowJK | I have currently about 6 8 or 16 gig cards on order |
| 00:28.14 | xes | WOW.... |
| 00:28.19 | ShadowJK | if any of them impress me, I'll get the 32 gig version and test that |
| 00:28.24 | xes | it's a race! :) |
| 00:28.51 | ShadowJK | Sadly, all the "interesting" cards are hard to get :( |
| 00:29.30 | xes | now i'm using a lexar 32gb class 10... it's not bad but i didn't checked the real numbers with some benchmark |
| 00:30.47 | halXI | nothing about http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 Sub-process bzip2 returned an error 1 |
| 00:31.26 | halXI | following signature invalid keyexpired 1349249546 |
| 00:33.05 | ShadowJK | xes, it's pretty hard to test, too |
| 00:33.27 | xes | i know, dd is not enough |
| 00:34.08 | xes | ShadowJK: what are you using to make a comparison? |
| 00:35.27 | ShadowJK | I use coffeemug rebench on a sheevaplug to test random I/O perf |
| 00:35.41 | ShadowJK | I use flashbench on an atom machine for generic profiling |
| 00:38.30 | Sysaxed_ | wtf.. is there any upstart example? |
| 00:40.27 | xes | ShadowJK: interesting..i would test with this also my blade's iscsi ... sometimes i use ioperf but..i don't like it at all |
| 00:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: before mosaic, I developed a viewer to display advertisements and citymaps etc on public touchscreen terminals, which we could dial up and feed new texts via modem. I think those had less than 32MB RAM |
| 00:45.15 | MentalistTraceur | Btw, @ comment up above with the whole Android discussion about how it kills multitasking - it actually would be extremely easy for Android to not do that, Google just wrote Android like that. It's not Java itself that manages what Android app 'activities' get unloaded, afaik, but the Android task/activity management, whatever layer that's implemented in. |
| 00:50.13 | MentalistTraceur | And I would guess just about every 3rd party browser uses Android's built-in webview class, so they'd have a hard time doing the only background-task-killing workaround I could think of for Android even if they tried. |
| 00:50.33 | *** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio@Maemo/community/contributor/kerio) |
| 00:51.08 | MentalistTraceur | Of course, my Android developing skills are fairly limited as well, so there might be work-arounds an 'app' could do that I'm unaware of... |
| 00:51.31 | Sysaxed_ | vi____, |
| 00:54.33 | Hurrian | MentalistTraceur: IIRC, you'll simply have to put whatever task you need to run as a service |
| 00:54.56 | *** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio@Maemo/community/contributor/kerio) |
| 00:55.04 | Hurrian | like the terminal emulators, the UI is part of the main activity, and the terminal window is a service |
| 00:56.08 | MentalistTraceur | Hurrian, yes, and that was what I was thinking of, however, the discussion I am responding to had to do with browser tabs 'forgetting' the tabs they had loaded when they've not been the foreground tab for a while. |
| 00:56.51 | Hurrian | hmm, it's as if no browser on Android has ever heard of Javascript pausing |
| 00:57.15 | MentalistTraceur | Which led me to the thought that to save that in a service, you'd have to somehow get the service to store that webpage in memory. |
| 00:58.37 | MentalistTraceur | Which would be great, except Android provided a very easy to use 'webview' class for coding, which in no way exposes the actual webpage itself as far as I know. So if most browsers use that for rendering, the developers of those browsers wouldn't be able to do that... |
| 00:58.52 | Hurrian | MentalistTraceur: the main activity can probably just fork a service per tab, freeze itself, and simply call back to the pages once someone brings the browser window back up |
| 00:59.39 | Hurrian | oh, if those webpages are dynamic though, and take the WiFilock, the battery life is simply going to go down the drain. |
| 01:00.43 | Hurrian | can Android suspend services? seems like that's the best option - fork services for each tab, once the main browser window gets killed/frozen the tabs get frozen, and resumed when the browser gets brought up again |
| 01:01.40 | Hurrian | this really shouldn't be a problem in the age where most high-end Android devices have upwards of 1GB RAM |
| 01:02.02 | MentalistTraceur | My concern is I don't think that service for that tab will be able to actually get at the webpage data - that's handled by the WebView class. |
| 01:03.22 | Hurrian | I just looked it up, and it seems that you cannot run a Webview inside a service. |
| 01:03.28 | MentalistTraceur | So when the Tab's activity is killed (by Android doing its usual background task gutting), the service will still live, but the tab's activity's WebView element will have been killed, loosing that data and needing a reload next time you get to the tab. |
| 01:03.33 | MentalistTraceur | Indeed. |
| 01:03.51 | *** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio@Maemo/community/contributor/kerio) |
| 01:04.01 | Hurrian | MentalistTraceur: that's more inefficient than "saving a list of open pages", which most browsers do nowadays |
| 01:05.06 | MentalistTraceur | You can't run any View-derived class in a service in Android. As a rule of thumb, any class that deal with showing things on the screen can't go in a service. |
| 01:05.14 | MentalistTraceur | s/deal/deals |
| 01:05.30 | MentalistTraceur | ... |
| 01:05.41 | Hurrian | IIRC, Chrome for Android has a limited ability to store the webpages in open tabs and restore them after the process has been killed - it stores the page into cache, and redraws them (and restores scroll position, but not entered data) |
| 01:05.42 | MentalistTraceur | s/deals/"deals/"/ |
| 01:06.20 | MentalistTraceur | Perhaps, but Google has a privileged position as far as coding that app goes. |
| 01:06.40 | Hurrian | nah, I just think thats one way of faking suspend-resume ability |
| 01:08.08 | MentalistTraceur | All of the above said though, if an Android browser dev wrote their own web rendering engine, THEN they could get around the Android background-task killing as far as webpages having to reload goes. |
| 01:09.51 | MentalistTraceur | *Shrug* Whatever, long-live actual properly multi-tasking phone OSs. |
| 01:14.51 | jon_y | anybody know how to type the '>' in rescueOS? |
| 01:15.32 | jon_y | wifi support is kind of pointless if you can't create wlan.cfg for passwords |
| 01:15.59 | jon_y | kerio: ping |
| 01:16.31 | xes | jon_y: ">" ...no way from device... |
| 01:16.33 | MentalistTraceur | jon_y, try shift+(left-arrow)? |
| 01:16.40 | jon_y | ok |
| 01:16.42 | kerio | jon_y: shift+right arrow i think |
| 01:16.47 | jon_y | ok |
| 01:16.50 | MentalistTraceur | I'm just guessing, btw. |
| 01:16.51 | jon_y | will try |
| 01:17.00 | MentalistTraceur | Or fn+(left-arrow)? |
| 01:17.50 | jon_y | sweet, fn+arrow |
| 01:18.02 | jon_y | ok, now it says root is read-only |
| 01:18.17 | jon_y | for /wlan.cfg |
| 01:18.47 | jon_y | safe to mount / -o remount,rw? |
| 01:19.11 | MentalistTraceur | Probably, I honestly never worked with RescueOS |
| 01:19.45 | *** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio@Maemo/community/contributor/kerio) |
| 01:20.03 | MentalistTraceur | But if you have to modify /wlan.cfg, I figure you might as well. If you're in RescueOS, there's a decent chance you don't have much to lose. |
| 01:20.21 | jon_y | nope, remount still readonly |
| 01:20.33 | kerio | rescueos runs in a cramfs, it's read only |
| 01:20.34 | kerio | you have to bindmount from tmpfs |
| 01:20.36 | kerio | the scripts in /rescueOS/ do that |
| 01:20.53 | jon_y | ah ok, these should go in the rescueOS docs |
| 01:21.10 | jon_y | or at least get the wifi script to ask for password directly |
| 01:21.40 | MentalistTraceur | Yay, someone who knows RescueOS is here to take over. |
| 01:22.15 | jon_y | btw, other key combo I found is fn+symb = tab |
| 01:22.23 | jon_y | for auto complete |
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| 01:23.12 | jon_y | kerio: for rw bind remount, how do you do that? |
| 01:23.15 | MentalistTraceur | Cool. (Though ctrl-i is treated as a tab by most shells anyway). |
| 01:23.23 | kerio | jon_y: beats me |
| 01:23.31 | kerio | look at the scripts |
| 01:23.34 | jon_y | mount --bind / /tmp/somedir? |
| 01:23.39 | kerio | ew, no |
| 01:23.57 | jon_y | I hope less/more is installed, or vi :) |
| 01:24.00 | kerio | besides, you'd want unionfs or something similar for that |
| 01:24.20 | jon_y | ok, how am I supposed to > /wlan.cfg? |
| 01:24.30 | kerio | ask NIN101 |
| 01:24.48 | jon_y | hmm, he's offline |
| 01:25.02 | MentalistTraceur | RescueOS should really involve more rescue and less obscure filesystem wankery. |
| 01:25.45 | MentalistTraceur | Not that I'd necessarily code it any better... |
| 01:27.24 | MentalistTraceur | Hold up, if you're trying to redirect some output into /wlan.cfg, couldn't you just direct that output to another file, then use/run that file instead? |
| 01:28.01 | MentalistTraceur | I.e. a file you can write to, like /tmp/randomfilename |
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| 01:55.28 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: just got an email from Rambo/Nemein for key exchange, he was talking like there will be more admins server sided for tmo... "one of the admins of tmo" is that for the move or did I miss on something |
| 01:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's for the move |
| 01:56.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | reggie gets root access to do the migration this very weekend |
| 01:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'll get root eventually, just because ... ;-) |
| 01:59.44 | MentalistTraceur | I wanna haz root just because. |
| 01:59.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | or because I'm admin-coordinator |
| 02:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and thus will hand out accounts to MentalistTraceur and others, when needed |
| 02:01.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and I need to appoint a stand-in, in case I get hit by a bus, I guess |
| 02:01.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, for tmo that's you for now, chem|st |
| 02:01.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | since you also have full root access |
| 02:03.07 | MentalistTraceur | By the way Joerg, Eero clarified on email that he was talking about the old DNS changes we requested, when he said Nokia started moving on the DNS issue. |
| 02:03.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I answered that mail |
| 02:03.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird |
| 02:03.35 | MentalistTraceur | Ah, I see. |
| 02:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think Nokia would like to pass domain ownership to HiFo |
| 02:04.34 | MentalistTraceur | Yes, but Nokia is like a glacier of bureaucracy. |
| 02:04.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea what been agreed upon bewteen hiFo and Nokia regarding that |
| 02:04.48 | MentalistTraceur | It'll get there... eventually. |
| 02:04.52 | MentalistTraceur | Maybe. |
| 02:04.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 02:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'll see what's going to happen |
| 02:05.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever it will be, it won't kill us |
| 02:07.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | if users can't access tmo anymore, they will be smart enough to have a look at maemo.org and there they will find what's going on and how to deal with it |
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| 02:14.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: Jaffa: good topic for next MWKN as well: announce tmo migration happening during the week, and possible implications of old URL pointing to nowhere resp to a server that's in zombie state |
| 02:16.41 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: ah I was thinking of the tmo-admin access... but yes I need full root-access... didn't think about that |
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| 02:16.58 | chem|st | you wanted me to look after a server as much as I have time right... |
| 02:18.59 | chem|st | thanks for the mail |
| 02:20.28 | MentalistTraceur | Alright, I'm head off IRC for the day. |
| 02:20.31 | MentalistTraceur | *waves* |
| 02:37.48 | jon_y | so, ubi0:rootfs is the root |
| 02:37.55 | jon_y | where is the home dir from? |
| 02:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 02:38.52 | jon_y | I'm trying to mount it in rescueOS |
| 02:39.25 | jon_y | hmm, some hints on google say /dev/mmcblk0p1 |
| 02:40.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:40.14 | jon_y | thanks |
| 02:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:45.48 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: lastly is there a way to grab the contacts? |
| 02:45.58 | jon_y | phone numbers etc |
| 02:46.05 | jon_y | and maybe sms |
| 02:50.01 | chem|st | jon_y: phonebook is in .osso-abook |
| 02:50.16 | jon_y | thanks |
| 02:50.27 | jon_y | I'd be willing to work on RescueOS for repayment |
| 02:53.01 | chem|st | jon_y: and .rtcom-eventlogger for msgs afaict |
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| 02:56.20 | jon_y | chem|st: you mean sms? |
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| 02:59.18 | jon_y | very nice, sms contact in sqlite form |
| 02:59.30 | jon_y | not so much for the actual phonebook data though |
| 02:59.43 | jon_y | but I'm cool with extracting it with strings(1) |
| 03:00.18 | cehteh | its an sqlite db .. you can use the sqlite tools to dump it as text/sql |
| 03:00.43 | cehteh | or even prints it in some formatted way |
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| 03:01.29 | jon_y | cehteh: you mean the phonebook data? |
| 03:01.37 | cehteh | yep |
| 03:01.48 | jon_y | my sqlite tools don't seem to like it |
| 03:01.56 | jon_y | something about closed sets |
| 03:02.00 | cehteh | mhm .. am i wrong then? |
| 03:02.15 | jon_y | no idea |
| 03:02.22 | chem|st | should be sqlite |
| 03:02.25 | jon_y | .rtcom stuff is in sqlite |
| 03:02.37 | chem|st | both should be in sqlite |
| 03:02.39 | jon_y | .osso seems to be some custom db |
| 03:02.50 | jon_y | I'll try again soon |
| 03:02.51 | chem|st | hmm |
| 03:03.10 | jon_y | for now, I will embark on a quest to find the great Nokia 3310 |
| 03:03.18 | jon_y | or anything equivalent |
| 03:03.40 | Theorbo | Anyone know how much an unopened N950 is worth? |
| 03:03.57 | jon_y | 1000-ish euros |
| 03:04.02 | cehteh | $1 .. i take it :) |
| 03:04.37 | chem|st | Theorbo: 1000+eur on ebay... |
| 03:05.22 | chem|st | in netto actualy nothing but 5euros... |
| 03:09.08 | Theorbo | Thanks |
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| 07:16.58 | HtheB | can anyone configrm is the Audio in Qt for Maemo is supported or not? |
| 07:18.29 | HtheB | confirm if* |
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| 07:52.24 | merlin1991 | HtheB: it should work |
| 07:52.43 | merlin1991 | if it doesn't hit the guys over in #maemo-ssu and we might provide a fix with the next cssu update |
| 07:53.13 | HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1311859&highlight=ppsspp#post1311859 |
| 07:53.23 | HtheB | check the last post |
| 07:56.10 | merlin1991 | hm intresting, I can have a look in the qt sources somewhere next week, but you'll probably want your answer earlier :D |
| 07:56.38 | HtheB | no problem |
| 07:56.45 | HtheB | well, its to point out to pali |
| 07:56.53 | HtheB | that afaik, it should work now |
| 07:57.08 | HtheB | some guy is trying to port the psp emulator to harmattan |
| 07:57.21 | HtheB | but he gets some audio errors afaiu |
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| 08:43.06 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: URL to announcement about it? |
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| 09:24.42 | GeneralAntilles | Hoo boy. |
| 09:24.50 | GeneralAntilles | "greater good" |
| 09:25.27 | GeneralAntilles | http://hildonfoundation.org/jolla-part-2/#comment-69 |
| 09:26.54 | thedead1440 | so now a Councilor is just a "community member" while the BoD is above all? Wow... |
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| 10:26.01 | flux | is there some camera application around for n900 with both sources and ability to refocus? |
| 10:26.40 | flux | using the standard camera subsystem that is, fcam does exist.. |
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| 10:28.39 | flux | I suppose fcam will do fine for me, though :) |
| 10:29.28 | tadzik | is there any info in maemo system logs where did the last charging occur? |
| 10:30.18 | tadzik | seems that dmesg has something |
| 10:31.58 | kerio | tadzik: maemo has no logs unless you install syslog |
| 10:32.21 | tadzik | I see. Thanks |
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| 10:41.16 | f3bruary | sup |
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| 10:48.11 | f3bruary | kerio: va bene |
| 10:48.31 | kerio | ? |
| 10:48.41 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
| 10:48.43 | f3bruary | I thought you were italian |
| 10:48.49 | kerio | i am |
| 10:48.53 | f3bruary | va bene ? |
| 10:49.44 | kerio | if you mean "what's up" you should ask something like "come va?" |
| 10:50.33 | f3bruary | ah |
| 10:50.44 | kerio | and yeah, everything alright |
| 10:50.50 | chem|st | hehe |
| 10:50.54 | f3bruary | I use va bene most of the time and people just say yeah and you ? |
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| 10:51.10 | f3bruary | so I assumed it to be correct |
| 10:51.16 | chem|st | f3bruary: that is more like "ok" |
| 10:52.09 | f3bruary | turns out the xtube fix is not really working well |
| 10:52.22 | kerio | it's the kind of phrase that, while being wrong or at least a bit weird, would still be perfectly understood when spoken out loud by a foreigner :) |
| 10:52.36 | f3bruary | ic |
| 10:52.39 | f3bruary | :D |
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| 12:05.09 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: in RescueOS, mmc blocks for SD and mtd are swapped |
| 12:05.51 | jon_y | so, mmcblk0 SD slot, mmcblk1 system emmc |
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| 15:12.53 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 15:13.20 | kerio | ~botsnack |
| 15:13.20 | infobot | kerio: :) |
| 15:13.56 | tomreyn | well thanks everyone. about the web browser: which one do you use and why? and is there any one which gets security updates, or updates at all? |
| 15:14.18 | kerio | tomreyn: microB gets security updates from cssu :) |
| 15:14.30 | tomreyn | it does? i never noticed |
| 15:14.36 | kerio | second "distribution" in the world to fix the turktrust issue :) |
| 15:14.46 | tomreyn | hehe |
| 15:14.54 | kerio | er, third |
| 15:15.00 | kerio | first and second were mozilla and m$ |
| 15:15.32 | tomreyn | base don what i read Ms actually didnt revoke it yet |
| 15:15.57 | kerio | nobody removed the turktrust CA |
| 15:15.58 | tomreyn | or just provides a patch which is not shipped universally |
| 15:16.07 | kerio | they just blacklisted the two affected intermediate CAs |
| 15:16.17 | tomreyn | well i did ;) |
| 15:16.35 | tomreyn | they lost my trust if i had any in them before |
| 15:17.41 | tomreyn | but "revoke" is a very wrong term in this context indeed |
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| 15:29.58 | NeutrinoPower | does someone use evopedia? I don't know what wikipedia-dump I have to download and evopedia cannot download it via bittorrent... |
| 15:32.11 | tomreyn | i guess the idea is that you download it to your desktop using bittorrent and then move it to the maemo device using a data cable or similar |
| 15:32.35 | tomreyn | the dumps' torrent files are available on their website |
| 15:32.52 | tomreyn | pretty outdated though |
| 15:34.20 | tomreyn | it would seem like evopedia needs a different format than the one provided by wikimedia |
| 15:34.39 | tomreyn | "Evopedia dump at home combines the processing power of various computers around the globe to create Wikipedia database dumps for use in the offline Wikipedia reader evopedia." |
| 15:35.54 | NeutrinoPower | does it work with this dumps? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dump_torrents |
| 15:36.15 | NeutrinoPower | ok |
| 15:36.19 | tomreyn | <tomreyn> it would seem like evopedia needs a different format than the one provided by wikimedia |
| 15:36.27 | NeutrinoPower | yes |
| 15:38.00 | tomreyn | based on past releases, you can probably expect the evopedia people to update the english database within the next two months. |
| 15:38.51 | tomreyn | the latest release of the english wikipedia dates back to early 2012. german is more current in case you prefer this. |
| 15:39.13 | NeutrinoPower | I want both |
| 15:40.18 | tomreyn | hmm german is 3.9 TB while english is just 670 MB |
| 15:40.36 | *** part/#maemo caemir (~caemir@unaffiliated/caemir) |
| 15:40.37 | tomreyn | oh thats wrong |
| 15:40.46 | tomreyn | EN is 13.8 GB :) |
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| 15:47.48 | WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: do you like it so far? |
| 15:50.35 | WizardNumberNext | everybody involved in KP project: what do you think about preempt-rt on N900? Will it improve anything or ruin expeperience instead? |
| 15:51.53 | tomreyn | WizardNumberNext: i like what? |
| 15:52.41 | WizardNumberNext | I am going to try out RT-kernel on my server (mind its amd64) and see how it behaves (NFS and SAMBA gets slow sometimes on no preemtion). I run all my x86 (centrino and 2 AMD Phenom II) on no preemption at the time |
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| 15:52.59 | WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: evopedia |
| 15:53.24 | tomreyn | WizardNumberNext: i'm not using it, it takes too much space. |
| 15:54.03 | WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: if it stores all tis on your HDD, then that sucks |
| 15:54.18 | tomreyn | well thats the point |
| 15:54.46 | tomreyn | so you dont have to be online |
| 15:55.32 | WizardNumberNext | I could store it on my server, but after I fix my 1TB drives and they sit, ready to be fixed on shelf for something like 2 months |
| 15:56.13 | WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: that is not my issue - I have 'all you can eat data', so I do not care about data |
| 15:56.39 | tomreyn | wikimedia already stores the data on their servers thanks to the many donations they receive, it's called wikipedia.org |
| 15:57.55 | WizardNumberNext | yes, wikipedia does the job, at least ost of the times |
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| 16:26.21 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: is that ok? http://pastebin.com/BkeUC9YZ |
| 16:27.05 | freemangordon | Samsung 64GB Pro UHS-1 |
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| 16:29.49 | kerio | holy balls |
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| 16:30.43 | freemangordon | kerio: ? |
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| 16:31.04 | kerio | freemangordon: those random writes |
| 16:31.12 | freemangordon | yeah :D |
| 16:31.17 | jacekowski | btw. have you seen nokia financial numbers |
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| 16:31.28 | kerio | freemangordon: try writing 64gb of random data over it first, though |
| 16:31.31 | kerio | to make sure it's not cheating |
| 16:32.02 | freemangordon | jacekowski: btw it was you with doxbox, ain't? |
| 16:32.25 | freemangordon | kerio: http://en.samaanet.com/?p=16415, I guess it is not |
| 16:32.48 | jacekowski | freemangordon: ? |
| 16:32.50 | freemangordon | kerio: i'd rather do random write test wint 1GB |
| 16:33.13 | kerio | also run the same test on the n900 itself, too :) |
| 16:33.14 | freemangordon | jacekowski: was it you the dosbox maintainer |
| 16:33.24 | freemangordon | kerio: how? |
| 16:33.34 | kerio | wine, ofc |
| 16:33.40 | kerio | :P |
| 16:33.59 | kerio | there must be an IO benchmark for linux |
| 16:34.14 | jacekowski | freemangordon: no |
| 16:34.24 | freemangordon | jacekowski: ok, sorry |
| 16:34.50 | freemangordon | aah, it was javispedro :) |
| 16:35.15 | freemangordon | kerio: there is, iozone iirc |
| 16:35.38 | kerio | freemangordon: 64gb swap partition gogogogogo |
| 16:35.46 | freemangordon | hehe |
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| 16:49.33 | freemangordon | kerio: btw benchmark is made with card in n900 connected via usb |
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| 16:49.45 | kerio | oh, good enough then, i suppose |
| 16:50.20 | freemangordon | yep. I guess we can't go more than 10MB/s anyway. but random write is impressive |
| 16:50.28 | freemangordon | *write speed |
| 16:54.54 | SpeedEvil | I note that I got 24mbyte read using emmc and SD |
| 16:55.15 | SpeedEvil | a leetle more if you use one nand too |
| 16:55.30 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: on device? |
| 16:55.39 | SpeedEvil | tyres |
| 16:55.42 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 16:55.56 | SpeedEvil | concurrent dad's |
| 16:56.00 | SpeedEvil | dd's |
| 16:56.30 | freemangordon | I guess it depends on io scheduler settings. I did the test with stock settings |
| 16:57.31 | freemangordon | though I don't think sequental io matters much on n900 |
| 17:04.13 | SpeedEvil | stock here too |
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| 17:04.31 | freemangordon | could you givme the commend? |
| 17:04.39 | freemangordon | *command |
| 17:04.43 | SpeedEvil | mum |
| 17:04.44 | freemangordon | to run it here |
| 17:04.48 | freemangordon | ok |
| 17:04.48 | SpeedEvil | umm |
| 17:05.50 | SpeedEvil | just something like time dd if=... of=/dev/null bs=131072 count=a gigs worth |
| 17:06.19 | freemangordon | ok |
| 17:08.40 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: iostat reports ~15500KB/s |
| 17:10.30 | SpeedEvil | as I understant it, 25mhz is the maximum clock |
| 17:10.45 | SpeedEvil | so 12.5 will be the hard maximum performance |
| 17:11.22 | freemangordon | afaik it is 50MHz, but could be wrong |
| 17:11.45 | freemangordon | dd of=./tst if=/dev/zero bs=131072 count=65536, iostat reports between 4000 and 10000 KB/s |
| 17:13.04 | freemangordon | doing the same with bs=4096 increases write speed to ~14000KB/s |
| 17:14.06 | freemangordon | hmm I like that card :D |
| 17:14.19 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; empty card? |
| 17:14.23 | freemangordon | yes |
| 17:15.18 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: what is the difference? |
| 17:15.53 | ShadowJK | Yeah I get 200-ish IOPS on blank sandisk class 4 too, collapses to 1-2 once all pages have been touched |
| 17:16.33 | freemangordon | I guess it will take a while until all 64GB of pages got touched :) |
| 17:16.51 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: any idea how to test random io on the device? |
| 17:17.22 | ShadowJK | I was trying to compile coffeemug rebench the other day, but got stuck on libaio |
| 17:18.11 | freemangordon | well, i guess i can run ubuntu installer and check what iostat reports then |
| 17:22.39 | freemangordon | i'll rerun diskmark random write with 1GB file |
| 17:23.11 | ShadowJK | how long does the benchmark run? |
| 17:23.20 | ShadowJK | does it keep file around? |
| 17:23.28 | freemangordon | yes, it keeps the file |
| 17:23.48 | freemangordon | bot I will watch iostat in the meantime ;) |
| 17:24.20 | freemangordon | finished ;) |
| 17:24.35 | ShadowJK | I magine if you ran it 5-10 minutes on same file it'd start declining |
| 17:24.44 | freemangordon | Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 2.407 MB/s [ 587.7 IOPS] |
| 17:24.45 | freemangordon | Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 1.086 MB/s [ 265.0 IOPS] |
| 17:25.15 | freemangordon | i'll run it again |
| 17:25.54 | freemangordon | oh, no, it creates new file every time :( |
| 17:26.19 | ShadowJK | how long does it take to run once? |
| 17:26.30 | freemangordon | 1-2 minutes |
| 17:27.21 | freemangordon | i guess I can set the benchmark what to do, lemme check |
| 17:28.08 | freemangordon | no, I can't :( |
| 17:28.20 | freemangordon | ok, sekomd run, same results |
| 17:28.24 | freemangordon | *second |
| 17:28.56 | freemangordon | well, i'll partition the card and will put it in my primary, will benchmark again in a week or so |
| 17:30.54 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: how many iop/s was your data? |
| 17:30.57 | freemangordon | *adata |
| 17:31.14 | ShadowJK | about 20 in steady state |
| 17:31.50 | ShadowJK | that is I ran benchmark in one-minute chunks until numbers settled |
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| 17:36.08 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: or i'll create 1GB partition and will use it |
| 17:40.19 | ShadowJK | Would be interesting to test whether blanking stuff outside the 1G speeds the 1G |
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| 17:42.06 | wirr | hi everybody - how's the migration progressing? i've seen you published new wiki's ip addr... |
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| 18:06.46 | kerio | wirr: still waiting for the dns change from nokia afaik |
| 18:09.06 | wirr | kerio: looks like... Tech Email:hostmaster@nokia.com |
| 18:09.07 | wirr | Name Server:NS.NOKIA.COM |
| 18:09.18 | wirr | (whois for maemo.org) |
| 18:09.50 | wirr | you know how funding's proceeding? what's more needed, money or sponsoring ISPs providing hosting or housing? |
| 18:10.59 | kerio | hm, idk |
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| 18:15.27 | WizardNumberNext | two questions: n900: maximal SD(hc/xc) size? |
| 18:15.57 | WizardNumberNext | and wine? how the hell it work? does it emulates x86? |
| 18:17.53 | kerio | wine doesn't work, really |
| 18:18.25 | kerio | afaik there's no qemu+wine combination in the repos |
| 18:18.29 | WizardNumberNext | kerio: that is what I was thinking |
| 18:19.02 | kerio | the "wine" in extras-devel is to run recompiled windows applications compiled against the wine libs |
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| 18:26.07 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 18:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: money more needed, and particularly a professional sysop needed |
| 18:29.48 | ShadowJK | WizardNumberNext; well freemangordon is using a 64g card. do 128 ones exist? |
| 18:32.59 | ShadowJK | I'm guessing exfat doesn't work though :) |
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| 18:57.22 | Pali | ShadowJK, format it as ext3 (or if you have kernel-power as ext4) |
| 18:57.40 | Pali | I think that the best filesystem for SD cards is ext4 |
| 18:58.08 | ShadowJK | On sheevaplug I use nilfs2 |
| 18:58.49 | Pali | there is some side effect in ext4 implementation which cause better performace as ext3 for sd cards... |
| 18:59.44 | Pali | exfat is from design step back |
| 19:00.16 | Pali | I really do not understand why they chosed it as *default* filesystem for SDXC |
| 19:02.26 | SpeedEvil | what else? |
| 19:02.56 | SpeedEvil | ext2/4/... are not supported on most computers |
| 19:04.19 | Pali | and is exfat supported? |
| 19:04.27 | Pali | and is exfat better then other FS? |
| 19:04.44 | Pali | and is there exfat specification? |
| 19:05.13 | Pali | is there reference implementation (portable for other systems)? |
| 19:06.10 | Pali | really, as replacement for old fat32 which is supported on more computer is UDF |
| 19:06.41 | Pali | there is not stupid 4GB limit, so as filesystem for backup/storage is usable |
| 19:06.57 | SpeedEvil | and yes, it's retarded |
| 19:07.12 | Pali | and UDF is supported on lot of system and configurations |
| 19:07.19 | SpeedEvil | fundamentally, Microsoft is an using its monopoly posaition,. |
| 19:07.22 | SpeedEvil | abusing |
| 19:09.35 | Pali | its funny that nobody written ext4 driver for windows |
| 19:10.09 | Pali | but there exists more ext4 implementations in other non windows systems... |
| 19:10.17 | SpeedEvil | I assume there is fine |
| 19:10.19 | SpeedEvil | one |
| 19:10.27 | Pali | where? |
| 19:10.30 | SpeedEvil | I was using one back in 1995ish |
| 19:10.37 | SpeedEvil | well. ext2 |
| 19:10.43 | Pali | ext2 is here |
| 19:11.02 | Pali | (and usable for ext3 without journal) |
| 19:11.18 | Pali | but writing with ext2 driver to ext4 is not working... |
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| 19:24.36 | ShadowJK | hm, UDF.. wonder if that would work on sd.. |
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| 19:27.26 | kerio | sure, why not |
| 19:27.31 | kerio | well, probably not on windows |
| 19:41.18 | ShadowJK | I vaguely recall trying to use udf on -rw, not successful :) |
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| 21:21.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 21:21.03 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 21:28.42 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: srsly, set up sasl |
| 21:29.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh |
| 21:29.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | why? |
| 21:29.23 | kerio | cuz it's cool! |
| 21:29.37 | kerio | also, * DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@lagrange.cloud-7.de) entra in #maemo |
| 21:29.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | friggin ZNC not in centOS default repos |
| 21:30.08 | kerio | just compile from the tarball |
| 21:30.16 | kerio | it's a nice, round version 1.0 now |
| 21:30.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | and the above only happens when I reboot the bouncer |
| 21:30.49 | kerio | *when the bouncer connects to IRC |
| 21:30.56 | kerio | this is freenode, remember |
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| 21:32.07 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, regarding sysop, is there some info on tmo about what skills and time is required? |
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| 21:46.44 | freemangordon | wirr: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88632 |
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| 21:52.23 | luf | freemangordon: :) I don't want to stop working on bluez and others packages ... |
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| 21:55.11 | WizardNumberNext | freemangordon: I've heard you're using 64gb sd card on your n900. Do you know if it is generaly supported or is it rather matter of luck? I mean do you have any idea about addressing issues? I do not know, if SD card is more alike pure FLASH or is it block device (means interface between FLASH and SD card interface itself) |
| 21:56.36 | WizardNumberNext | SpeedEvil: I never had run into any computer, which doesn't support ext2/3/4! It is up to OS only. And I know only ONE OS, which doesn't support ext2/3/4 and I think you know the name of that crap. |
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| 21:57.22 | Corsac | WizardNumberNext: you mean OS X? |
| 21:58.04 | WizardNumberNext | I would not let windows read my SD card anyway. Last it touched my HDD I lost 400GiB of data - it was last time it had access to my hardware |
| 21:58.28 | WizardNumberNext | Oh, I forgot that creator of OS X exists |
| 21:58.40 | WizardNumberNext | sorry ;) |
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| 21:59.49 | WizardNumberNext | who uses OS X? only fanatics I presume. No games, no software, no nothing - what is use of that? Fancy graphics? I have that for ages on my GNU/Linux |
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| 22:00.09 | WizardNumberNext | and I didn't pay 1200GBP for my desktop |
| 22:00.30 | WizardNumberNext | barely over 1/3 of that price tag |
| 22:00.38 | Corsac | WizardNumberNext: more people than Linux, actually :) |
| 22:01.21 | WizardNumberNext | because they do not know about existence of anything else then Window$ and O$ X |
| 22:02.48 | kerio | paid 2300€ for his macbook pro |
| 22:02.51 | kerio | haters gonna hate |
| 22:02.58 | WizardNumberNext | look - I do not have to spend whole week to install my software, not to mention drivers, do noit have tpo spend ages to pull software of the net and do not have to pay single pence for my software |
| 22:03.14 | WizardNumberNext | kerio: you must be joking me |
| 22:03.28 | WizardNumberNext | what sort of CPU and RAM do you have there? |
| 22:03.31 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: you must be poor |
| 22:03.40 | WizardNumberNext | 4x opteron 62xx? |
| 22:04.05 | freemangordon | luf: ofc, CSSU needs you :) |
| 22:04.08 | WizardNumberNext | for that price tag I would have 2x Opteron 62xx + 64GiB of RAM |
| 22:04.37 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: not with 8 hours of battery life |
| 22:04.37 | freemangordon | though you may administer maemo.org in the time you take rest from bluez and such :P |
| 22:04.55 | WizardNumberNext | I am not poor, I am reasonable - I do not spend 5x more for same class CPU and 3x for same damn RAM |
| 22:05.11 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: on the other hand, LAPTOP |
| 22:05.43 | kerio | (besides, mine is about 5 years old now) |
| 22:05.50 | WizardNumberNext | I have almost best CPU of the line and 8GiB of RAM - price - just slightly over 400GBP |
| 22:06.02 | kerio | i'm sure of it |
| 22:06.02 | WizardNumberNext | where PSU costed me 80GBP |
| 22:06.12 | kerio | how long does it stay on without plugging it in? |
| 22:06.25 | WizardNumberNext | mine is dated last year |
| 22:06.34 | WizardNumberNext | desktop? |
| 22:06.42 | WizardNumberNext | wiothout pluggin in? |
| 22:06.52 | WizardNumberNext | I do not like laptops |
| 22:07.15 | WizardNumberNext | for one reason |
| 22:08.05 | WizardNumberNext | in last year I had: 5 motherboards, 2 cpu, 2/4/8GiB of RAM, 3 PSUs |
| 22:08.21 | WizardNumberNext | all of it was tested and if I didn't like it I changed it |
| 22:08.30 | WizardNumberNext | change your PSU in laptop! |
| 22:09.10 | kerio | i already did, under warranty |
| 22:09.30 | WizardNumberNext | P.S. welcome to Apple world - everything is really integrated and you cannot change anything, and even if you can, then you either void warranty or pay for it |
| 22:09.31 | kerio | because the plug that connects to the laptop side was broken |
| 22:09.44 | WizardNumberNext | it is not PSU of Laptop |
| 22:09.56 | WizardNumberNext | it is just general PSU |
| 22:10.02 | WizardNumberNext | I mean PSU-PSU |
| 22:10.11 | WizardNumberNext | not just single volt PSU |
| 22:10.21 | kerio | oh, the battery then |
| 22:10.26 | Hurrian | WizardNumberNext: OS X is nice, when not running on Apple hardware. |
| 22:10.27 | WizardNumberNext | you have whole PSU in laptop |
| 22:10.38 | WizardNumberNext | 12v, 5v, 3.3v |
| 22:11.06 | Hurrian | also, holy crap, 5 mobos and 2 cpus in a year? |
| 22:11.17 | kerio | Hurrian: no it's not, mountain lion is a piece of crap |
| 22:11.28 | WizardNumberNext | IHurrian: I was curious for while, but, when I seen how much I need to do to run it on AMD Phenom II... |
| 22:11.39 | luf | freemangordon: :D Yes I still sleep several hours per day. |
| 22:11.49 | WizardNumberNext | so lion is crap as well |
| 22:12.02 | kerio | lion is crap too, yes |
| 22:12.08 | Hurrian | ah, an AMD system. Man, if that was an Intel system, that would probably bankrupt me. |
| 22:12.20 | kerio | snow leopard is the last good one, pretty much :s |
| 22:12.30 | freemangordon | luf: what a waste :D |
| 22:12.43 | kerio | luf: disregard sleep, acquire coffee |
| 22:12.48 | kerio | s/coffee/meth/ |
| 22:12.52 | WizardNumberNext | kerio: I would disagree - last one was leopard - and that is for single reason |
| 22:12.56 | WizardNumberNext | it run on PPC |
| 22:13.16 | Hurrian | kerio: meh, I spend most of my time in nano, Xcode, Firefox and VMWare, and launch programs using Alfred, so I avoid the horrible Launchpad |
| 22:13.44 | Hurrian | the big draw to me using OS X is Mission Control, which on a single-screen system is a lifesaver |
| 22:13.56 | kerio | except that nobody was able to make a G5 that didn't require a nuclear fusion reactor to run |
| 22:14.05 | kerio | so that made it kinda hard to have good laptops |
| 22:14.38 | WizardNumberNext | ok, IBM never meant 74xx for laptop |
| 22:14.46 | WizardNumberNext | sorry 97x |
| 22:15.10 | WizardNumberNext | it was motorola job to make laptop ones |
| 22:15.24 | WizardNumberNext | and motorola quited AIM |
| 22:15.32 | WizardNumberNext | so onlyu AI left |
| 22:15.47 | WizardNumberNext | then Aplle kicked out IBM so only A left |
| 22:16.24 | kerio | it's a damn shame, yeah :s |
| 22:16.31 | WizardNumberNext | that's shame they kicked them out |
| 22:16.43 | WizardNumberNext | now Apple would have Cell 9i |
| 22:16.56 | WizardNumberNext | or something even better |
| 22:17.06 | kerio | i wonder what would've happened if apple moved to ARM instead |
| 22:17.23 | Hurrian | WizardNumberNext: Cell chips need TWO nuclear fusion reactors to run! |
| 22:17.37 | WizardNumberNext | and left? Then ARM would second to best! |
| 22:17.53 | WizardNumberNext | Hurrian: who told you that |
| 22:18.02 | WizardNumberNext | full Cell 8i is in PS3 |
| 22:18.02 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: no, i mean, instead of moving to x86 |
| 22:18.20 | Hurrian | WizardNumberNext: High TDP of PS3 CPU, and it's only single-core. |
| 22:18.23 | kerio | but i don't know what was the status of arm when they made the switch |
| 22:18.40 | WizardNumberNext | kerio: that is what I meant, Apple moving to ARM and leaving it. |
| 22:19.17 | WizardNumberNext | Hurrian: single-core? What? It is full Cell 8i - 8SPE + 1 PPE |
| 22:19.30 | Hurrian | I was talking about the PPC core inside the Cell. |
| 22:19.32 | WizardNumberNext | where do you get your info from? |
| 22:19.43 | WizardNumberNext | SPE is PPC! |
| 22:20.17 | Hurrian | Alright, so, go run Linux kernel process threads in it. |
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| 22:21.21 | Hurrian | It's impractical to do so, because of the crazy mailbox/local store structure, and the fact that they're more suited to running numerical compute kernels a la CUDA |
| 22:21.53 | WizardNumberNext | it is like pure AltiVec core |
| 22:22.38 | WizardNumberNext | Hurrian: show me Linux kernel, which is able to run on more then one core at once! |
| 22:23.03 | WizardNumberNext | it is monolitic kernel and it runs on one core |
| 22:23.10 | Hurrian | Indeed. IMO, Sony should've rode the tide with the PS3, developed a quad-PPC core chip, and not bothered with an SPE |
| 22:23.17 | WizardNumberNext | then you do not need more, then one core for it |
| 22:24.16 | WizardNumberNext | Sony had no voice about design of Cell! It is IBM creation! |
| 22:24.27 | Hurrian | They ordered the chips. |
| 22:24.43 | WizardNumberNext | thats right, they ordered chips, not designed them |
| 22:25.05 | kerio | they ordered 10M chips |
| 22:25.25 | kerio | they could've asked for whatever they wanted, really |
| 22:25.29 | WizardNumberNext | nubmer of them doesn't make any frickin difference |
| 22:25.45 | WizardNumberNext | it still would be designed by IBM |
| 22:25.57 | kerio | yes, but you can ask for specific features if you're sony |
| 22:26.06 | WizardNumberNext | and for game console you need a lot of SPEs |
| 22:26.14 | WizardNumberNext | yes, they did |
| 22:26.16 | ShadowJK | In Linux 2.2 there was the "Big Kernel Lock", which made kernel on all other cores/processors stop if one cpu accessed any complex data structure. In 2.4, 2.6 and 3.x it's pretty darn fine grained though |
| 22:26.20 | WizardNumberNext | they asked for 7 SPEs |
| 22:27.03 | WizardNumberNext | ShadowJK: as far as I remember, they removed BKL totaly |
| 22:27.42 | WizardNumberNext | which doesn't mean, that plain kernel thread could be run on more then one core |
| 22:27.54 | WizardNumberNext | it is all about helpers |
| 22:28.07 | WizardNumberNext | but pure kernel is unsplitable |
| 22:28.25 | WizardNumberNext | even macro-kernel is unsplitable |
| 22:28.26 | Hurrian | WizardNumberNext: IIRC, from the PS3 prototypes, 8 SPEs were planned, but to cut costs on the already ~$1000 PS3 they accepted partially defective ones |
| 22:28.50 | ShadowJK | A single thread rarely runs on more than one cpu :-) |
| 22:29.07 | WizardNumberNext | ShadowJK: you know what I meant |
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| 22:29.31 | Hurrian | nowadays the newer PS3s usually have the Cell chips perfectly manufactured, and they can probably be safely enabled. |
| 22:29.37 | WizardNumberNext | fs, drivers and so on can run wherever |
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| 22:30.33 | WizardNumberNext | Hurrian it is valuable info, maybe I would get one and set up some 'super computer' on it |
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| 22:30.53 | ShadowJK | WizardNumberNext, and what's left after you remove fs, drivers etc |
| 22:30.55 | WizardNumberNext | but wait RAM is crap there - it is too small for anything sewrious |
| 22:31.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | wirr: there is no info on tmo about details for master sysop of maemo.org. consider of it as 2 dedi servers running ~12 VMs |
| 22:31.36 | Hurrian | WizardNumberNext: I run kernel 3.7 on mine, the SPE guides on IBM are a good start |
| 22:31.45 | WizardNumberNext | memory handling, process management, ... |
| 22:31.50 | Hurrian | And regarding the RAM, just swap on the VRAM block device |
| 22:31.59 | WizardNumberNext | do not remember all at the moment, but there are 4 |
| 22:32.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | wirr: needed time is sth the sysop needs to tell me, not I tell sysop |
| 22:32.28 | Hurrian | It's XDR, so it's quite a lot faster than DDR3. You're still limited to 512MB RAM though. |
| 22:32.35 | WizardNumberNext | Hurrian: knowing what RAM is supported, which won't be easy to find out |
| 22:33.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | I guess you'll need 30min/day minimum, watchin nagios/munin/whatever, syslogs, CERT alerts etc |
| 22:33.37 | Hurrian | WizardNumberNext: the PPC CPU has access to 256MB of RAM, and you can swap on the 256MB of VRAM (since there is no accelerated 3D video driver for the PS3) |
| 22:33.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you know your business |
| 22:34.13 | WizardNumberNext | you can swap it as long as you know what is supported |
| 22:34.33 | WizardNumberNext | there is bit more then plain mbits per chip |
| 22:34.37 | Hurrian | WizardNumberNext: Now that gives you 512MB of fast memory, outside of that you'll have to swap to HDD, which is incredibly, unbearably, slow on the PS3 because of the HDD encryption/decryption chip |
| 22:34.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | wirr: initially you'll need more time setting things up and making familiar with stuff |
| 22:35.08 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, as far I get from the councils post, the goal is to have a full team of sysops, right? |
| 22:35.10 | WizardNumberNext | like bitness of RAM, like its organization and its low-level organization |
| 22:35.10 | ShadowJK | WizardNumberNext, ignoring the helper threads, the kernel isn't some process that's always running. It's more like event-driven pieces of code running with the highest priviledges. When a page fault happens, the cpu core on which it happened jumps into kernel code and starts executing the memory management stuff, and schedules another process to be run on that core. When an interrupt happens, the core that interrupt was routed to gets to handle it. The pr |
| 22:35.16 | ShadowJK | ocess doesn't get moved to core 0 or anything |
| 22:35.19 | Hurrian | brb |
| 22:36.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | wirr: yes, the plan is to have one professional master sysop, and find as many maintainers for services as possible to delegate stuff |
| 22:37.12 | WizardNumberNext | I know ShadowJK, I know that for quite long time, it is purely easy answer to SPE problem - you cannot run kernel there, but who cares - kernel doesn't run all the time anyway |
| 22:37.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | you can't run stuff with a crew of 30 peer sysops |
| 22:37.46 | WizardNumberNext | btw interrupt handling is another one |
| 22:37.51 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: will sysop be paid? |
| 22:37.51 | ShadowJK | Well it's also that the thing is deprived of any meaningful I/O to manage :-) |
| 22:38.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | will take more time for coordination overhead than anything else |
| 22:38.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: dependsa |
| 22:39.07 | WizardNumberNext | and I/O handling |
| 22:39.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | we probably prefer to pay a small amount, and have proper responsibility and liability |
| 22:39.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | afk, sorry |
| 22:39.49 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer51: what have to have sysop? |
| 22:40.37 | WizardNumberNext | or otherwise, how much I have learn? |
| 22:40.52 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, I agree, the team has to be small enough to stay agile |
| 22:41.00 | WizardNumberNext | s/have learn/have to learn/ |
| 22:41.20 | wirr | but still large enough to allow people to do their tasks reliable besides their day jobs |
| 22:41.29 | wirr | s/reliable/reliably/ |
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| 22:42.15 | WizardNumberNext | going for some water |
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| 22:45.21 | freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: I bought the card today and it is still in my devel device |
| 22:45.32 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, is a full resume expected with the application? |
| 22:46.23 | wirr | can someone tell me why i can't create a new page on the new wiki? |
| 22:46.28 | freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: but afaik there should be no problem with UHS cards(besides the speed will not be more than lats say 20MB/s) |
| 22:48.19 | wirr | freemangordon, WizardNumberNext: I'm getting seq. read of up to 18MB/s and seq. write of approx 8.5MB/s with UHS-1 |
| 22:49.15 | WizardNumberNext | freemangordon: 20MB/s I would love it. At the moment I cannot seam to get decent speed of neither SD nor MMC. Barely 1.5MiB/s. But I am using data=journal, which efectively halfs speed |
| 22:50.55 | kerio | data=writeback nobarrier or you're a wuss |
| 22:51.30 | WizardNumberNext | kerio data=journal - it minimizes data lost |
| 22:51.59 | kerio | as i said, wuss :P |
| 22:52.02 | WizardNumberNext | if you would loose 400GiB of DATA you would do everything to prevent it from happening again |
| 22:52.18 | kerio | you can't lose important data |
| 22:52.24 | kerio | if it was important, you'd have backups |
| 22:52.35 | WizardNumberNext | now I have |
| 22:52.42 | kerio | data=journal isn't a backup! |
| 22:52.49 | WizardNumberNext | but I am not makeing backup of n900 everyday |
| 22:52.58 | freemangordon | wirr: 15 MB/s here, depending on the block size(dd that is). but that card impresses with random i/o, at least so far |
| 22:53.06 | kerio | every day is a bit too much, but once every three or four days is recommended |
| 22:53.12 | WizardNumberNext | it is not backup, but it helps to keep data |
| 22:53.16 | kerio | it takes so little effort |
| 22:53.25 | WizardNumberNext | as data is written first |
| 22:53.55 | freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: I am talking about raw speed, not fs |
| 22:54.00 | WizardNumberNext | I think I might import my backup script |
| 22:54.29 | kerio | WizardNumberNext: just install backupmenu |
| 22:54.30 | WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, then I should expect something close to 20mb/s |
| 22:54.37 | WizardNumberNext | I have backupmenu |
| 22:54.47 | kerio | live backups won't really work |
| 22:55.00 | WizardNumberNext | but backupmenu doesn't make backup automaticaly to all my server drives at once |
| 22:55.10 | kerio | oh i thought you meant on the n900 |
| 22:55.20 | WizardNumberNext | I meant on my n900 |
| 22:55.23 | *** join/#maemo erstazi_ (~erstazi@pool-71-116-17-91.eriepa.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:55.23 | *** join/#maemo erstazi_ (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 22:55.29 | kerio | oh, *to* the servers |
| 22:55.33 | WizardNumberNext | I run NAS on server |
| 22:55.47 | kerio | backupmenu then usb mass storage and copy the tarballs |
| 22:56.00 | kerio | so you can bzip2 on a computer with a real cpu |
| 22:56.09 | WizardNumberNext | yes, to server, as 10 drives is 10 times bigger data security, then one SD card |
| 22:56.12 | ShadowJK | WizardNumberNext, try increase the commit time to something crazy like 300 seconds |
| 22:56.48 | ShadowJK | In general though, I'd say that all sorts of data integrity cleverness is completely foiled by SD behaviour... to the point that for example running fsck on SD can make matters far worse than they are |
| 22:56.56 | WizardNumberNext | ShadowJK: that is actually better, then data=journal |
| 22:57.28 | ShadowJK | It's commit=1 in Maemo, to maximize interactivity |
| 22:57.34 | WizardNumberNext | shit, I have ext4 on SD |
| 22:57.45 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:57.54 | ShadowJK | ext4 does much better than ext3, which does much better than ext2, as far as speed goes |
| 22:58.20 | WizardNumberNext | oh, speed-wise ext4 is a king |
| 22:58.33 | ShadowJK | Something about its access patterns being different |
| 22:59.38 | WizardNumberNext | \I was running resierfs3 for years and years, few weeks after ext4 went into kernel I started to use ext4 and it is far faster, then reiserfs and doesn't have problem with reiserfs loopback on reiserfs parition |
| 23:00.39 | kerio | ext4 lacks in spouse-killing, though |
| 23:00.41 | ShadowJK | nilfs2 would probably be fastest fs for SD right now |
| 23:00.57 | fastlane` | that was horrible |
| 23:01.02 | WizardNumberNext | need to compare features though |
| 23:01.02 | fastlane` | spouse killing :( |
| 23:03.26 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~Sysaxed@82.131.82.126.cable.starman.ee) |
| 23:07.21 | Sysaxed | trying to broadcast music with fm transmitter. I can hear beep sound every 5 seconds and then it turns off after a minute. I'm not using the default music player, I'm using cmus. It thinks that there's no audio playing, that's why it beeps and then turns off. How can I make it accept cmus sounds? |
| 23:08.01 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc3-basf10-2-0-cust617.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 23:11.52 | Sysaxed | how come the sound from default music player is different from the sound from cmus? |
| 23:12.13 | kerio | you need libplayback or something like that |
| 23:13.56 | Pali | Sysaxed, yes you need to use libplayback library for that |
| 23:14.20 | Sysaxed | uhhh, I can simply install it? |
| 23:14.48 | Pali | that library is closed and poor documented |
| 23:14.58 | Pali | look at OMP code how is using |
| 23:15.26 | Pali | Sysaxed, you need to add libplayback support to your sound application |
| 23:15.32 | freemangordon | Pali: did 3.8 boot? |
| 23:15.40 | Sysaxed | Pali, well, cmus is not my application :)) |
| 23:15.41 | wirr | seriously guys, how can i create a new page on the wiki? there seems to be no way to register for a new account... |
| 23:15.50 | Pali | freemangordon, rescueOS yes |
| 23:15.57 | freemangordon | wow, great |
| 23:16.03 | kerio | with fbcon? |
| 23:16.06 | Pali | yes |
| 23:16.08 | kerio | :D |
| 23:16.15 | Pali | also usb network woking |
| 23:16.21 | kerio | that's good |
| 23:16.22 | freemangordon | guesses Pali don;t expect fremantle to boot :D |
| 23:16.23 | kerio | what about wifi? |
| 23:16.30 | kerio | or... hm |
| 23:16.33 | kerio | the uSD? |
| 23:16.37 | kerio | and emmc |
| 23:16.54 | Sysaxed | Pali is there any hack? Maybe I can fake some sound playing? |
| 23:17.27 | Pali | ~interim-dns |
| 23:17.27 | infobot | i heard interim-dns is "http://mwkn.net/2013/01/community.html and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD-.etc.hosts" |
| 23:17.28 | kerio | Sysaxed: play 4'33" on mediaplayer |
| 23:17.31 | kerio | :) |
| 23:17.34 | Pali | wirr ^^^^ |
| 23:18.04 | Pali | kerio, wifi was not tested, but wl1251 driver was autoloaded |
| 23:18.18 | Pali | eMMC was not detected |
| 23:18.29 | kerio | is omap_hsmmc not in mainline? |
| 23:18.30 | Pali | s/eMMC/internal slot/ |
| 23:18.54 | Pali | and external slot was detected, but inserted SD card not :-( |
| 23:18.59 | freemangordon | kerio: it should be, I guess some configuration |
| 23:19.05 | Pali | omap hs mmc driver is in upstream |
| 23:19.36 | kerio | hm, does the upstream driver deal with the backcover sensor too? and how? |
| 23:19.49 | Pali | Sysaxed, libplayback is needed |
| 23:19.59 | Pali | there is no other good solution for that |
| 23:20.18 | Pali | kerio, yes |
| 23:20.25 | Pali | it show me that cover is closed |
| 23:20.34 | kerio | Pali: maybe some program that does a dummy playback |
| 23:20.50 | kerio | so you can then do whatever you want with non-libplayback-aware programs |
| 23:21.04 | Sysaxed | kerio, yeah, that's what I'm asking about |
| 23:21.07 | Pali | kerio, not possible |
| 23:21.13 | Sysaxed | why>? |
| 23:21.23 | Pali | sound from system (like events) are high priority |
| 23:21.29 | Sysaxed | so what? |
| 23:21.39 | kerio | Pali: his issue is that fmtx turns off after a bit if there's no playback |
| 23:21.58 | kerio | Sysaxed: as i said, play 4'33" in loop with Mediaplayer |
| 23:22.01 | kerio | :D |
| 23:22.02 | Sysaxed | but there is a playback... a perfect playback! |
| 23:22.09 | Sysaxed | kerio, yeah, that's what I'm going to try |
| 23:22.14 | Pali | maybe it will work |
| 23:22.21 | Pali | try |
| 23:22.34 | Pali | maemo auto system is very bad |
| 23:23.15 | Pali | libplayback, patched pulseadio, ohm, ohm plugins, libprolog, prolog plugins, pulseaudio policy, alsa policy, alsaped, .... |
| 23:23.36 | Pali | do not forget for cmtspeech, fmtx or bluez, ... |
| 23:24.07 | Pali | also dres |
| 23:25.06 | Pali | freemangordon, 76 kernel patches for 3.8-rc3 are here: https://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/linux-n900/ |
| 23:27.44 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~quassel@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 23:33.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: I don't thin k a full resume is needed, rather some info about your qualification and your relation to maemo, plus a statement what you think you can do and for how much |
| 23:35.03 | wirr | Pali: thanks, I was already using the new IP for wiki.maemo.org. still i can't find the possibility to register a new account or create a new page :-( |
| 23:36.53 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, ATM I'm rather thinking of donating some time and money :) I already have a payed daytime job... so i'll contact the council by email |
| 23:36.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | wirr, when I'm logged in I can create new pages the usual way. Haven't tried to register new account, for obvious reasons. |
| 23:39.35 | Pali | you need to register new account on garage.maemo.org |
| 23:39.41 | Sysaxed | kerio, default music player blocks music from cmus |
| 23:39.55 | Pali | I think that wiki using same login database |
| 23:40.05 | wirr | Pali: ah, thats the point, thanks |
| 23:40.13 | Sysaxed | so playing silence helps |
| 23:40.14 | Sysaxed | wtf |
| 23:40.16 | Sysaxed | hold on... |
| 23:40.17 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05 ^^ correct? |
| 23:40.49 | Sysaxed | wtf just happened |
| 23:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: might be, I actually can't recall anymore |
| 23:41.22 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, do you know what exactly is testserver doing in n900? |
| 23:41.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly, might be jumpserver for login |
| 23:41.44 | Pali | /usr/bin/testserver |
| 23:41.45 | *** join/#maemo NeutrinoPower (~neutrino@static.52.99.9.5.clients.your-server.de) |
| 23:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh |
| 23:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | on N900 |
| 23:42.02 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05 |
| 23:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's errrr, NFC really |
| 23:42.07 | Pali | http://maemo.org/packages/view/testserver/ |
| 23:42.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably for preproduction or whatever |
| 23:42.38 | Pali | that daemon is starting in LOCAL or TEST mode |
| 23:42.50 | Pali | so is server application for phoenix? |
| 23:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | TEST mode is only via test mode battery afaik |
| 23:43.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 23:43.11 | Pali | no |
| 23:43.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically, sth like that |
| 23:43.19 | Pali | phoenix can boot to test mode too |
| 23:43.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe |
| 23:43.26 | Pali | you have button for that |
| 23:43.31 | Sysaxed | OK |
| 23:43.37 | Sysaxed | oh no |
| 23:43.38 | Sysaxed | :C |
| 23:43.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly never cared too much |
| 23:43.48 | Pali | can remove it? :-) |
| 23:43.58 | Pali | some free space on rootfs |
| 23:44.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | on your own system you're for sure free to remove it |
| 23:44.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 23:44.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be reluctant to remove it in e.g. CSSU unless we understand exactly why we don't need and don't want it anymore |
| 23:45.45 | Pali | btw, is there (on irc or tmo) somebody (ex)nokian which know maemo system? |
| 23:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, good question |
| 23:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess nobody living or dead meets that spec ;-D |
| 23:47.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it actually would be interesting who's been the system architects of maemo |
| 23:47.45 | Pali | yes, it should be interesting |
| 23:48.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd consider everything not written in the docs as lost knowledge |
| 23:48.25 | Pali | ari jaaksi? |
| 23:48.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | rings a bell here |
| 23:49.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I don't know if it's the system-architect bell it rings |
| 23:51.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: (testserver) it *might* also be involved in NOLO flashing MyDocs |
| 23:51.46 | Pali | no, for flashing eMMC is used softupd |
| 23:51.55 | Pali | in UPDATE mode |
| 23:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | among others, yes |
| 23:52.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 23:52.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess all that is a rather white area on maemo's map |
| 23:53.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | only those who been there know there be dragons |
| 23:56.38 | *** join/#maemo keithzg (~quassel@50.99.201.66) |