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| 00:33.04 | grummund | is there a trick to not accidently tapping when you wanted to swipe? |
| 00:34.49 | cehteh | resistive touchscreen, press harder |
| 00:35.43 | cehteh | i tried to recallibrate the touchscreen with the pen, using the most minimal pressure on each callibration point, but i think that doesnt help, doesnt callibrate pressure |
| 00:39.18 | grummund | just have to get used to it i suppose |
| 00:58.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: there's no such thing like pressure with r-ts and stylus |
| 01:00.55 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: there is .. mypaint supports it, albeit its not very sensitive |
| 01:02.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | physically impossible |
| 01:02.47 | Raimu | It's probably a time downpushed -based simulation |
| 01:02.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | for r-ts "pressure"=area-of-touch |
| 01:03.08 | Raimu | Oh or that! |
| 01:03.08 | grummund | does resistive still work with a screen protector? |
| 01:03.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 01:03.16 | Raimu | grummund: Sure does |
| 01:04.07 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: mypaint with pen .. well yes maybe 'area of touch' increases when you press the pen harder |
| 01:04.59 | grummund | aprobably the sheet is made from conductive material |
| 01:05.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | for finger it does, for stylus hardcly |
| 01:06.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | grummund: check wikipedia 4wire resitive touchscreen |
| 01:06.13 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: try out mypaint |
| 01:06.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~wiki 4wire resitive touchscreen |
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| 01:06.48 | cehteh | i dont care about the wiki .. when it works here :) |
| 01:06.57 | cehteh | (not very well, but it does) |
| 01:07.01 | grummund | just ordered a case from amazon for 99p including shipping ;) |
| 01:07.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: r-ts is minimally pressure-sensitive indeed |
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| 01:46.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_screen#Resistive |
| 01:47.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 for all I would bet on has oil-separated 4-wire resistive touchscreen |
| 01:51.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.google.de/search?q=5+wire+resistive+technology |
| 01:54.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc |
| 01:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | F!!!U!!! apple |
| 01:56.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | bin deep N9 with all capacitive technology |
| 01:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | the absolutely *one* advantage of capacitive is sturdiness |
| 01:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka "gorilla glass" |
| 01:58.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | apart from that, goodnight capacitive |
| 02:02.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry now, a comment for 10+ hours offtime: Fripp, Eldritch, Eno, B52s. The true geniuses of this starting millenium. cya, sorry for less dedication to this community, I need to earn my bagels/donuts. |
| 02:04.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | what a disgusting fishing for compliments |
| 02:04.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | cya l8r |
| 02:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 02:07.55 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: thanks |
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| 02:30.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | quiet planet syndrome? |
| 02:30.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | anybody alive? |
| 02:31.31 | internetishard | I'm here, my friend |
| 02:31.46 | internetishard | just switched to the nexus4 after all these years on the n900... Wow, if nokia (or another company) kept a phone like the n900 up to date it could totally be everything this thing is (and more)! |
| 02:32.41 | Raimu | I'm awake too. |
| 02:33.16 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05, good luck to you :) |
| 02:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 02:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki quiet earth |
| 02:34.44 | thedead1440 | it'll be boring here during late nights EU time w/o you too ;) |
| 02:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film) |
| 02:35.41 | Raimu | Fripp, Eldritch, Eno I know but B52s are unknown to me. |
| 02:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're missing the dynamite fraction |
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| 02:37.09 | Raimu | looked up |
| 02:37.43 | Raimu | Sounds good. |
| 02:38.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqKRGW6_rw |
| 02:39.04 | Raimu | I'm a pretty bad King Crimson fan and I imagine Andrew's eldritch. It's on my top list of bands, but they should release something in non-live format once in a while. :) |
| 02:40.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Raimu: you have to *pay* for that |
| 02:41.03 | Raimu | Yeah, and that band had a pretty rotten row with record companies in the past. |
| 02:41.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2V2h_Bd_Gg |
| 02:42.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB1LI9j2btc |
| 02:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cadA5iANN2o |
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| 02:43.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^^^ SHOCK!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 02:44.16 | Raimu | 3x COMBO |
| 02:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | today's musicians are "ohh please, no! too complicated!" |
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| 02:48.41 | Raimu | "We'll do it post-prod" |
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| 02:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=q%3A+are+we+not+men+devo+a%3A+we+are+devo&oq=q%3A+are+we+not+men+devo+a%3A+we+are+devo |
| 02:51.36 | Raimu | Hah, I remembered just now I used to have that as a CD |
| 02:51.39 | Raimu | I wonder where it went. |
| 02:52.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had a quarter-inch tape anchine |
| 02:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuQZ-VVkVu4 |
| 02:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | n8 |
| 02:53.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | or was ir 1/2 inch? |
| 02:53.43 | Raimu | o/ |
| 02:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | too long ago too many shitpits |
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| 02:54.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | mongoloid! |
| 02:56.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gi4Cn5i_Xs |
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| 02:59.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jVoroHx3IU |
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| 03:01.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | freedom of joyce! |
| 03:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jVoroHx3IU |
| 03:02.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | n8 |
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| 03:04.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t141cliSLHY for sweet deams |
| 03:06.03 | thedead1440 | see ya:) |
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| 03:39.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, probably too much :-P |
| 03:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuQZ-VVkVu4 |
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| 05:20.18 | internetishard | DocScrutinizer05: do you have images that people can flash their n900s to, to bring it to a special state/config? |
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| 05:36.49 | Snafu777 | Anyone here use packet injection with their N900? I ran into a strange issue that I was able to reproduce twice, but had never seen it before, and am trying to figure it out. |
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| 06:48.33 | MrPingu | Snafu777: Yes, but never had issues... |
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| 08:25.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | internetishard: nope, since downgrading is impossible on HARM |
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| 08:26.06 | kerio | but... he said n900 |
| 08:26.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooops |
| 08:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | later, then |
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| 09:38.10 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: screen's broken |
| 09:38.25 | jon_y | so BT sync is unusable |
| 09:38.36 | jon_y | that leaves rescueOS |
| 09:41.25 | SpeedEvil | :-( |
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| 09:43.14 | jon_y | I'm not so worried about the data on the n900 |
| 09:43.33 | jon_y | just the intense laboring required to key in into the n9 |
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| 09:48.36 | jon_y | btw, how does g_nokia usbnet work? |
| 09:48.54 | jon_y | how does it compare to g_ether? |
| 09:49.15 | jon_y | I noticed windows doesn't like the former for actual networking |
| 09:49.41 | jon_y | rescueOS g_ether doesn't seem to work either |
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| 09:56.25 | Pali | jon_y, g_nokia working, but you need OS with cdc ether driver |
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| 09:59.49 | jon_y | Pali: I guess windows is out? |
| 10:00.13 | Pali | yes, sorry but windows has no proper networking support... |
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| 10:01.42 | jon_y | Pali: ok, modern Debian/ubuntu has it ootb? |
| 10:02.07 | Pali | yes, should have |
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| 10:03.33 | jon_y | ok, thanks |
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| 10:50.06 | amospalla | guys, has been pulseaudio protocol version upped recently in any cssu version ? |
| 10:53.30 | amospalla | to remove the limit on protocol up to v15 ? |
| 10:55.14 | Pali | amospalla, there is patch for that in cssu-devel |
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| 11:08.11 | amospalla | Pali: thanks pali, does that mean that is currently on latest cssu-devel? or is a proposed patch ? |
| 11:14.30 | ivgalvez | amospalla look at http://merlin1991.at/~luf/pulseaudio/ |
| 11:14.48 | ivgalvez | luf is commenting it right now at #maemo-ssu |
| 11:15.47 | Pali | amospalla, patch for support any PA protocol version is already in cssu-devel repo |
| 11:16.08 | Pali | if you have cssu-devel installed, then you have patched PA |
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| 11:17.50 | amospalla | Pali: that's great, thanks again |
| 11:18.06 | Pali | I tested network via desktop pulseaudio and it worked |
| 11:18.22 | Pali | sound from desktop was played in n900 speakers... |
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| 16:16.07 | Sysaxed | looking for a way to reflash completely... Wiki is a bit confusing. So I take the vanilla image, run the command, then run the command with -R parameter.. and then what? Run the command for COMBINED image with -R parameter, right? |
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| 16:22.59 | thedead1440 | Sysaxed: no you flash the VANILLA without the -R parameter then flash the COMBINED with or without -R parameter |
| 16:23.28 | Sysaxed | "with or without" |
| 16:24.08 | Sysaxed | which means? |
| 16:24.15 | thedead1440 | if you want it to reboot after the flash you put a -R and conversely if you want to do a manual boot-up you don't put a -R |
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| 16:29.05 | Sysaxed | thedead1440, ok... that's very simple |
| 16:29.16 | thedead1440 | indeed |
| 16:29.49 | Sysaxed | thanks :) |
| 16:29.57 | thedead1440 | np |
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| 17:10.36 | ShadowJK | the key thing is to not allow full boot between flashing the two images |
| 17:12.05 | ShadowJK | The order is debated and swaps around in wiki periodically ;) |
| 17:13.11 | ShadowJK | working system -> flash emmc -> broken system -> flash fiasco/rootfs -> working system |
| 17:13.32 | ShadowJK | working system -> flash fiasco/rootfs -> working system |
| 17:14.40 | ShadowJK | working system -> flash emmc -> reboot -> broken system -> flash fiasco/rootfs -> working system |
| 17:15.44 | ShadowJK | first boot takes ages. Data gets moved from rootfs to emmc on first boot. From this follows that if you then flash emmc, that data is lost and system broken. :) |
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| 17:44.51 | kerio | jon_y: rescueOS also has wifi, mind you |
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| 18:20.13 | Sysaxed | wtf is maemo.merlin1991.at ? |
| 18:20.31 | freemangordon | inet site? |
| 18:21.48 | bef0rd | merlin1991's site |
| 18:22.08 | Sysaxed | this catalog is listed but disabled after installing cssu testing: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/ |
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| 18:48.15 | Snafu777 | does anyone know the most recent up to date STABLE kernel that supports packet injection? |
| 18:48.37 | ummmm | pk52 doesnt :oo ? |
| 18:49.41 | Snafu777 | Well I've got a choice of two kernels |
| 18:49.51 | Snafu777 | but one DRAINED my battery something fierce the other day |
| 18:50.01 | Snafu777 | never seen it happen before, and i had used it before |
| 18:50.07 | Snafu777 | So i wanted to see if there was an upgraded version |
| 18:50.14 | ummmm | do u use that wepon script? |
| 18:50.18 | Snafu777 | No |
| 18:50.22 | Snafu777 | I use PwnPhone |
| 18:50.27 | ummmm | hmm |
| 18:50.32 | Snafu777 | Just want to make sure i have the most recent and updated kernel |
| 18:50.37 | Snafu777 | hopefully it fixed the weird bug |
| 18:51.08 | Snafu777 | A lot of blogs say to use: |
| 18:51.09 | Snafu777 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 |
| 18:51.12 | Snafu777 | blah, wrong poist |
| 18:51.19 | ummmm | hmm, i'm running kp50, and after running wepon, wepoff doesnt do much, i have to restart n900 or battery will drain in few hours |
| 18:51.41 | Snafu777 | I was running 46 |
| 18:51.42 | Snafu777 | Never had a drain issue |
| 18:51.46 | Snafu777 | But all of the sudden it died |
| 18:51.52 | Snafu777 | now there is a kp51 |
| 18:51.57 | Snafu777 | Curious if anyone has used it |
| 18:52.26 | ummmm | when kp50 came out its post mentioned that injection drivers were updated for it |
| 18:52.46 | ummmm | never read anything about kp after that, havnt been keeping upto date on it |
| 18:53.18 | Snafu777 | But with kp50, yer battery does drain in a couple hours eh? |
| 18:53.33 | ummmm | yes, if i launch the wepon script |
| 18:54.01 | Snafu777 | Interesting |
| 18:54.02 | Snafu777 | Thanks =) |
| 18:54.47 | kerio | wtf is wepon |
| 18:55.31 | Snafu777 | I believe hes talking about a script that got released to turn on and off packet injection modules |
| 18:55.48 | ummmm | i think it runs wifite script to attack wep secured wifi networks |
| 18:56.14 | Snafu777 | I prefer manual usage with aircrack-ng for hacking things |
| 18:56.23 | Snafu777 | Im just trying to get a kernel that doesnt drain the battery to high heaven |
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| 19:00.10 | Snafu777 | So aside from ummmm, does anyone in here use packet injection with their N900? |
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| 19:03.07 | Sicelo | obviously. |
| 19:04.30 | Snafu777 | Which kernel do u use Sicelo ? |
| 19:04.41 | Snafu777 | Im reading some issues with KP51 about heat and charge |
| 19:04.59 | Snafu777 | Trying to find a kernel that supports injection while not killing the battery when the injection is not being used |
| 19:04.59 | Snafu777 | I used 46 forever |
| 19:05.04 | Snafu777 | but recently, noticed it DRAINED powe |
| 19:05.06 | Snafu777 | r |
| 19:05.14 | Sicelo | i don't use injection |
| 19:05.29 | Snafu777 | Ah |
| 19:05.42 | Snafu777 | Do you perhaps know the file that lists the current voltage and wattage the battery is pulling? |
| 19:05.47 | Snafu777 | That would be real helpful |
| 19:06.11 | Sicelo | get bq27200.sh script |
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| 19:19.20 | ShadowJK | I'd say pk51 is gentler on battery than stock kernel |
| 19:20.28 | ShadowJK | and as a bonus, pk51 uses 80mA less power when on charger compared to PR1.3 |
| 19:22.52 | kerio | charger=wallcharger? |
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| 19:24.31 | fastlane` | kerio, http://code.google.com/p/wifite/ |
| 19:24.52 | fastlane` | wepon script uses this |
| 19:25.03 | kerio | fastlane`: i don't really care about scriptkid tools |
| 19:25.46 | fastlane` | hmm, dont know what to say to that, it launches i wifite, thats all i wanted to tell, |
| 19:25.47 | ShadowJK | kerio; yes |
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| 19:31.54 | Snafu777 | wifite sucks |
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| 19:32.02 | Snafu777 | aircrack-ng all the way |
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| 21:28.53 | MentalistTraceur | Friendly neighborhood community councilmember here: Reggie says he'll be ready to move TMO from current server to the Hildon Foundation infrastructure on the 16th of this month (Wednesday), at which point there will be some downtime while the DNS changes propagate. Just announcing it here so if anyone has strong objections against that date, can speak up. |
| 21:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | please keep in mind we want to put old tmo into r/o mode as soon as new one goes active, so they won't go outa sync |
| 21:30.06 | MentalistTraceur | Thank you Joerg. |
| 21:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually the procedure is: r/o old tmo, copy, start new tmo |
| 21:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | so there will be some hours downtime at least |
| 21:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather: r/o time |
| 21:31.34 | ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, if possible, reduce the TTL for the talk.maemo.org DNS today, so that when the move happens, the DNS changes propagate faster |
| 21:31.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: we have no control over DNs yet |
| 21:32.12 | ShadowJK | Well you'll need it before 16th, surely.. |
| 21:32.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | still with Nokia |
| 21:33.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, Nemein informed us of a mail they got from Nokia that DNS issues are moving and it will only take a few days now until stuff got sorted. I suggest to wait with fixing a date for tmo migration until that DNS issue is actually sorted or at least a date is given from Nokia |
| 21:34.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: ^^^ |
| 21:34.32 | *** join/#maemo sunny_s_ (~sunny_s@86.57.254.135) |
| 21:34.44 | ShadowJK | So it's january, and I guess reggie didn't get sponsored for this month by nokia anymore? |
| 21:34.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: Eero is the one to talk to about date of switching |
| 21:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | the server of Reggie is running and paid til 20.1. |
| 21:35.34 | MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05, feel free to add that to the e-mail exchange going on with the Council and Board mailing lists. |
| 21:35.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | until then migration of data has to get finished |
| 21:35.47 | MentalistTraceur | Or I can mention it for you if you'd like. |
| 21:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, please do, I'm not really online |
| 21:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | (flu) |
| 21:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: wait, Reggie said he's going to migrate the data this weekend? so we already should expect tmo to go r/o this weekend, unless Reggie plans to resync immediately before switching DNS |
| 21:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise posts to old tmo would miss on new one and thus get lost |
| 21:40.10 | luf | good it'll be free week the next one :D |
| 21:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the latter obviously the best procedure |
| 21:42.16 | MentalistTraceur | Honestly, Joerg, that would be my guess (that he'd do a resync), but I don't know for sure. |
| 21:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. set up vBulletin now, move database, test. Then when DNS actually can get changed, put tmo in r/o mode, resync database, switch DNS A record |
| 21:42.30 | *** join/#maemo janemba_ (~101@cev75-4-82-247-118-210.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:42.44 | MentalistTraceur | (After all, Reggie is a good admin from what I know, I'm sure he knows what he's doing.) |
| 21:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think so |
| 21:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we have no control over DNS yet, so please don't propagate Wednesday as migration day |
| 21:44.03 | *** join/#maemo reggie_ (~rsuplido@ip207062.pat.wvnet.edu) |
| 21:44.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless Nokia promises that Wednesday we can actually do the DNS change |
| 21:45.17 | MentalistTraceur | Hey Reggie, glad you could get on. Joerg has comments. |
| 21:45.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | or Reggie insists in Wednesday, in which case we'd need to keep old tmo in r/o mode from then on (we do anyway), and offer users to access new tmo via interim-DNS |
| 21:46.20 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@5.103.130.65) |
| 21:46.24 | MentalistTraceur | Specifically that Nemein informed us that Nokia informed them that the DNS issue on their end is finally moving, and we should wait until we get a date from them (presumably for when we get control over the DNS) before setting a date to migrate. |
| 21:48.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2013-01-11 19:20:16] <mashiara> ivgalvez: I got a reply from Nokia that the DNS thing has finally moved forward and "should be done in a few days" |
| 21:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-11 19:20:18] <mashiara> this was today. |
| 21:48.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | [ |
| 21:48.27 | ShadowJK | If we can get DNS control before wednesday, going with that plan is probably fine.. but if not, it'd be kinda disruptive... Plan B and Plan C suggestions? |
| 21:48.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. set up vBulletin now, move database, test. Then when DNS actually can get changed, put tmo in r/o mode, resync database, switch DNS A record |
| 21:49.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | plan A^^^ |
| 21:49.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | plan B: delay resync of plan A until we get DNS control |
| 21:49.54 | *** join/#maemo reggie__ (~rsuplido@187.sub-70-199-103.myvzw.com) |
| 21:50.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | plan C: delay same resync until 20.1., the date when Reggie's server goes out of business |
| 21:50.42 | MentalistTraceur | reggie__, are you actively on now? And if so, can you see the statements made while the "reggie_" user was connected? |
| 21:53.09 | *** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio@Maemo/community/contributor/kerio) |
| 21:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | plan D: Reggie does the resync whenever he feels ok, and puts old tmo in r/o mode for that, and we have downtime / r/o-time via URL and new operational tmo is only available via: |
| 21:54.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~interim-dns |
| 21:54.38 | infobot | it has been said that interim-dns is "http://mwkn.net/2013/01/community.html and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD-.etc.hosts" |
| 21:55.13 | MentalistTraceur | Alright, I have to be afk, Joerg, if you feel up for it, can you copy-paste what was said to Reggie in case he didn't see it (depending on what client which of those usernames logged in with). |
| 21:55.28 | MentalistTraceur | s/)./)?/ |
| 21:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't send emil right now |
| 21:56.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | email |
| 21:56.33 | MentalistTraceur | I meant by private message here on IRC. |
| 21:56.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | chanlog... |
| 21:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 21:56.52 | MentalistTraceur | True. Fair enough. |
| 21:57.10 | MentalistTraceur | (I just wasn't sure if he'd know to check it from what he does see) |
| 21:57.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not even sure this is our reggie |
| 21:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and atm I don't see reggie in userlist |
| 21:58.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | (no join/part msgs here) |
| 21:58.53 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, in your /etc/hosts is missing mxr.maemo.org and also downloads.maemo.org |
| 21:59.01 | MentalistTraceur | Yeah... me neither. Alright, I'll email him with the highlights of this discussion. Anyway, I'll stay signed in, be back within the hour hopefully. |
| 21:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: mxr is ok, doesn't move |
| 21:59.23 | Pali | where is mxr? |
| 21:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a server by timeless |
| 21:59.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | CNAME |
| 22:00.02 | MentalistTraceur | (Oh wait, yeah, I see his quit message. Was right after kerio joined) |
| 22:00.09 | Pali | mxr.maemo.org. 35139 IN A 173.236.158.236 |
| 22:00.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 22:01.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:06:48] <timeless> it's a cname for timeless.justdave.net |
| 22:01.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:06:56] <timeless> which responds differently when you visit it by that hostname |
| 22:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:07:15] <DocScrutinizer05> mhm |
| 22:01.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:07:33] <DocScrutinizer05> but the host is justdave.net, not maemo.org? |
| 22:01.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:08:11] <DocScrutinizer05> so I could consider it "safe" for now? |
| 22:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:10:22] <DocScrutinizer05> timeless: ^^^ |
| 22:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:11:10] <DocScrutinizer05> I.E. the server is not one of those Nokia will tear down soonish? |
| 22:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:11:22] <timeless> right |
| 22:01.51 | Pali | and http://maintenance.maemo.org/news ? |
| 22:02.44 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: maintenance.maemo.org and downloads.maemo.org |
| 22:02.56 | MentalistTraceur | Shouldn't we still add it in to whatever file is being discussed sooner rather than later, so it doesn't get forgotten until the DNS entry for it expires? |
| 22:03.48 | ShadowJK | what file? |
| 22:04.23 | ShadowJK | I would've assumed hf would get the full existing zone file for maemo.org... or do we have to start from scratch? |
| 22:04.34 | MentalistTraceur | Whatever file this referred to: "<Pali> DocScrutinizer05, in your /etc/hosts is missing mxr.maemo.org and also downloads.maemo.org" |
| 22:04.45 | ShadowJK | Ah that's hacks |
| 22:05.13 | MentalistTraceur | Very well. I defer to your superior technical knowledge. |
| 22:06.06 | ShadowJK | /etc/hosts on your computer or N900 bypasses DNS. Some of the maemo.org servers have already been migrated to nemein, but the still nokia controlled DNS points browsers at the old servers hosted by Nokia. By editing that file, it's possible to test the new servers |
| 22:06.36 | ShadowJK | not hosted by nokia actually, was it logia or something, but paid by nokia.. |
| 22:08.09 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD28EA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:08.24 | ShadowJK | As mxr.maemo.org is a CNAME entry, it means in DNS terms that when the browser asks for "mxr.maemo.org", it gets a reply saying "ask timeless.justdave.net", instead of getting an IP address. Amusingly this means that if all the Nokia sponsored servers go down, mxr.maemo.org will be the only thing that still works :-) |
| 22:10.37 | Pali | mxr.maemo.org is not CNAME |
| 22:10.39 | Pali | mxr.maemo.org. 34486 IN A 173.236.158.236 |
| 22:10.49 | Pali | ShadowJK ^^^ |
| 22:10.56 | Pali | run dig |
| 22:11.12 | MentalistTraceur | I actually understand the function of both /etc/hosts (on normal computers - I just did not know if the /etc/hosts being discussed was some special, unrelated-to-that-normal-functionality file). |
| 22:11.36 | MentalistTraceur | But thank you, the explanation would've been helpful if I was unaware of how it worked. |
| 22:11.39 | MentalistTraceur | :) |
| 22:11.57 | MentalistTraceur | (Ditto for CNAME DNS records) |
| 22:13.15 | ShadowJK | urgh |
| 22:13.45 | ShadowJK | why did timeless think it was a cname |
| 22:14.50 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek-non@dhcp12.dmg.tuwien.ac.at) |
| 22:16.05 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.49.190.121) |
| 22:17.00 | MentalistTraceur | Question: Is there a way to make passwd use a password that's longer than 8 characters (i.e. not ignore everything beyond that)? |
| 22:17.23 | ShadowJK | Not trivially |
| 22:19.02 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@80-62-117-251-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) |
| 22:19.30 | MentalistTraceur | I mean, afaik it's the algorithm used to do the hashing that drops the characters after the 8th. And I know you can make it hash using a different algorithm by editing config file /etc/pam.d/passwd or something like that, but would doing that make it actually stop dropping the last 8 characters (which boils down to the question of 'is the passwd utility dropping the chars, or is it just passing the whole string to the |
| 22:19.31 | MentalistTraceur | hashing algorithm used")? |
| 22:20.22 | ShadowJK | I don't think pam is relevant on N900... |
| 22:20.33 | ShadowJK | like, do we even have /etc/shadow on it? |
| 22:20.38 | kerio | nope |
| 22:20.44 | ShadowJK | right :) |
| 22:20.53 | ShadowJK | crypt()ed into passwd then? |
| 22:22.26 | ShadowJK | If someone held me at gunpoint I'd rewrite crypt in glibc to do this.. |
| 22:22.32 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 22:23.44 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@host10-62-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:24.24 | MentalistTraceur | Who would I go annoy (kernel-power maintainer, someone else, would it need to be packaged into CSSU to distribute in a non-hacked way..?) to get the N900 to use /etc/shadow, and so forth? |
| 22:25.19 | MentalistTraceur | I guess what I'm asking is 'what do I have to go learn to modify/package to get it set up?' |
| 22:26.01 | ShadowJK | Well, it's a major change of the low level stuff. It's the kind big re-architecturing thing that is/was easier to do in Mer |
| 22:26.33 | kerio | MentalistTraceur: anything that uses any system password |
| 22:27.05 | kerio | and you're still not going to be able to fix 3rd party programs that assume that /etc/passwd holds the passwords |
| 22:28.02 | ShadowJK | hm... sshd and dropbox come to mind, any others? |
| 22:28.25 | kerio | dropbox? wtf |
| 22:28.26 | MentalistTraceur | Ughghhr. |
| 22:28.32 | kerio | why would dropbox care about user and root's passwords? |
| 22:28.53 | kerio | to be fair, third-party programs apart for stuff like sshd shouldn't really care about passwd |
| 22:29.02 | kerio | because there are no passwords in passwd in the standard fremantle |
| 22:29.31 | MentalistTraceur | Speaking of Mer, who made the decision to have it use rpm instead of deb? That was done in MeeGo before Mer forked from it, right? |
| 22:30.00 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 22:30.07 | MentalistTraceur | And more to the point of what I'm actually curious about, why was that done, if anyone knows? |
| 22:32.11 | ShadowJK | no wait, dropbox is that fielsharing thing |
| 22:32.21 | ShadowJK | what was the real name.. beardrop? |
| 22:32.25 | MentalistTraceur | Dropbear? |
| 22:32.28 | ShadowJK | the lightweight sshd thing... |
| 22:32.34 | MentalistTraceur | Yeah, dropbear. |
| 22:32.39 | ShadowJK | ah thx :) |
| 22:32.53 | MentalistTraceur | It has an ssh client and an scp program as well. |
| 22:33.05 | MentalistTraceur | It's not just a server. |
| 22:33.33 | ShadowJK | Mer was deb before MeeGo, then it went rpm when MeeGo came. iirc. |
| 22:34.00 | Sysaxed | power kernel increases boot time by 5 seconds. why? :) |
| 22:34.03 | ShadowJK | In the meanwhile they've worked hard on slimming their infrastructure to the point they can run everything on less than 300 bucks per month in hosting costs for everything. |
| 22:34.24 | ShadowJK | I guess they've not seen much reason to switch back :) |
| 22:34.30 | MentalistTraceur | Someone needs to figure out how to make one package manager compatible with the other package formats. |
| 22:34.38 | Sysaxed | is it just something getting loaded at boot time or a general performance slowdown? |
| 22:35.11 | MentalistTraceur | (The reason is that I'm used to .deb and I don't want to learn a new package format and the world naturally revolves around me.) |
| 22:35.22 | ShadowJK | I don't know any packaging format :) |
| 22:35.37 | ShadowJK | Sysaxed, I would suspect boot time |
| 22:36.14 | Sysaxed | ShadowJK, I have two identical devices |
| 22:36.16 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@88.130.215.123) |
| 22:36.36 | Sysaxed | boot time was exactly the same before installing power kernel on one of the devices |
| 22:36.53 | MentalistTraceur | I know .deb in that I know how to make .debs (not necessarily well), and that it's an archive produced by the 'ar' program, inside of which there are several .tar.gz files. |
| 22:37.01 | ShadowJK | powerkernel includes alot more drivers, so I would not be surprised if it took longer to initialize |
| 22:37.10 | ShadowJK | I would expect that runtime performance would be the same, though |
| 22:37.11 | Sysaxed | ShadowJK, oh, ok |
| 22:37.23 | Sysaxed | any benchmarking tool? |
| 22:37.41 | MentalistTraceur | Oh, except now it's sometimes .tar.xz files, which sucks, cuz the N900's ancient dpkg doesn't know how to use those. |
| 22:38.16 | ShadowJK | Getting maemo up to date would be an exciting project for sure, kinda what cordia tried/tries to do.. |
| 22:38.49 | MentalistTraceur | Well, Cordia is more of a 'make Mer look like Maemo', which I heartily approve of anyway. |
| 22:39.05 | Sysaxed | ShadowJK, you mean migrating to the latest debian packages? :O |
| 22:39.44 | ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, I thought it was "Make hildon run on debian" thing |
| 22:40.39 | MentalistTraceur | Personally, I think we (as in the whole community) should all get together and start our own cell phone manufacturing company, producing devices with completely open-source phones. There's totally enough of an untapped market for that. |
| 22:41.12 | Sysaxed | well, really, I'd be very happy if it was possible to run debian on n900 with ability to make phone calls... |
| 22:41.15 | MentalistTraceur | ShadowJK, afair, Cordia has Mer at its core. I could of course be misremembering.... |
| 22:41.37 | Sysaxed | and I don't even need any special window manager |
| 22:41.50 | Sysaxed | why would I if I can use stylus... |
| 22:42.22 | ShadowJK | I guess deblet never reached phone capability |
| 22:42.33 | ShadowJK | sts did say it was rubbish battery life |
| 22:43.07 | MentalistTraceur | Okay, I'm going AFK like I said I was, now. |
| 22:43.55 | ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, I often find I have this problem too with this channel. :) |
| 22:44.12 | MentalistTraceur | (Life has proven itself to be depressing and sad, for apparently getting the proper /etc/shadow -using setup on the N900 is difficult and outside my current time and abilities.) |
| 22:46.29 | Sysaxed | anybody? I need something to check the performance of my n900 devices. Any benchmark app? |
| 22:46.51 | cehteh | what performance? |
| 22:46.59 | Sysaxed | cpu I guess |
| 22:47.07 | ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, it's pretty interesting how the "important things" varies between geeks :) |
| 22:47.13 | MentalistTraceur | Final remark before I go away for a bit: A. Sorry Sysaxed, don't know of any. B. What meaning is there to existance if one's password hashes are plainly available for the world to see? |
| 22:47.22 | cehteh | why do you need to check it? |
| 22:47.40 | cehteh | by default it runs up to 600mhz .. and thats definite |
| 22:48.32 | *** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f71a8fc.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:48.33 | ShadowJK | cehteh, he's concerned because after installing power kernel, his boot time increased. |
| 22:48.53 | cehteh | can happen .. but thats not a cpu issue |
| 22:48.57 | ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, shows the origins of a singleuser system, I guess |
| 22:49.01 | Sysaxed | cehteh, I have two devices configured identically. I want to see if anything changes after installing different things |
| 22:49.19 | cehteh | it most likely will more or less |
| 22:49.37 | ShadowJK | cehteh, so he's worried that htis isn't just slowing down boot time, but that it is slowing down everything |
| 22:50.16 | cehteh | dont worry, send me the devices, no problems for you at all :P |
| 22:51.31 | ShadowJK | One benchmark I used to use was "open news.bbc.co.uk in browser and wait for it to load"... but I have unlimited bandwidth.. without that, web benchmarks are a bit dangerous |
| 22:52.12 | cehteh | considering emmc and µSD latency and tracker and all other background stuff its hard to impossible to measure real-world performance in a reliable and reproducible way |
| 22:52.45 | cehteh | cpu wont be much of a bottleneck .. I/O and the lack of ram is |
| 22:54.03 | ShadowJK | My theory was that the boot time is slowed somewhat by the extra drivers that pk includes |
| 22:54.46 | Sysaxed | most probably |
| 22:55.01 | cehteh | dunno if there are patches for these, but just looking at dmesg gives you timestamps |
| 22:55.40 | cehteh | get the timestamp of the first entry when booting started and define some entry which defines that the boot has finished |
| 22:56.00 | cehteh | make a script substracting those and voila |
| 22:56.08 | Sysaxed | what for? |
| 22:56.16 | Sysaxed | starting devices simultaneously does the thing |
| 22:56.30 | cehteh | fine if that works for you |
| 22:56.56 | cehteh | why did you ask then? |
| 22:57.21 | Sysaxed | I'm asking how can I check the performance.. not the boot time... |
| 22:57.43 | Sysaxed | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49705 |
| 23:06.51 | ShadowJK | speaking of http://whatever, firefox is currently at 8138M vsz ram use and 5300M rss :-( I only have 8G ram :-( |
| 23:07.47 | unclouded | how on earth did browsers used to run on machines with 128MB of RAM? |
| 23:07.52 | nox- | http://i.imgur.com/M8Nbl.jpg |
| 23:08.28 | unclouded | my Chromium chews 2GB too. what it the world coming to!? |
| 23:09.01 | nox- | used to run Mosaic and later netscape in 32 MB RAM too... |
| 23:09.10 | kerio | nox-: i'm not entirely sure that picture is legit |
| 23:09.21 | nox- | hm |
| 23:09.35 | nox- | makey you wonder yeah... |
| 23:09.45 | nox- | makes even |
| 23:09.51 | ShadowJK | nox-, 32M for mosaic, that sounds luxurious |
| 23:10.00 | nox- | hehe |
| 23:10.22 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@50.13.187.159) |
| 23:10.25 | nox- | it was my first freebsd box at home, a 486 :) |
| 23:10.34 | ShadowJK | remembers running Netscape2 on 8M. And THAT felt like luxury, because before that I was limited to Netscape 1 on 4M ram, and websites kept telling me to fuck off if I didn't have Netscape2 |
| 23:10.41 | Sysaxed | ShadowJK, my friend was using a laptop with 256 mb of ram only |
| 23:10.46 | Sysaxed | ShadowJK, XP as OS |
| 23:10.50 | Sysaxed | ShadowJK, it was just fine. |
| 23:10.59 | Sysaxed | firefox as web browser |
| 23:11.07 | ShadowJK | W2K on 256M is mostly fine too before you start skype and browser |
| 23:11.38 | Sysaxed | on crunchbang I was able to get in 256 mb limit with firefox and skype started |
| 23:11.45 | nox- | ppl used to mock emacs, and now its browsers that are eight gigabytes and constantly swapping... |
| 23:11.57 | ShadowJK | nox-, aint that the truth |
| 23:12.10 | nox- | *nod* |
| 23:12.21 | ShadowJK | I fired up 4 external USB harddrives and set me up a raid-0 swap to recover |
| 23:12.34 | nox- | oh dear :) |
| 23:12.38 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 23:13.04 | *** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f71a8fc.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 23:13.12 | ShadowJK | I had accidentally left a bad site open, I think it was gitorious, or some similar site |
| 23:13.21 | ShadowJK | and firefox had grown in size overnight |
| 23:18.58 | fastlane` | firefox does that to every site i guess, just leaving stuff open and leaving them that way. |
| 23:19.12 | fastlane` | with days it gets worse |
| 23:20.12 | ShadowJK | I run noscript usually |
| 23:20.26 | ShadowJK | but these were sites that refused to work without javascript so I had to enable :( |
| 23:20.38 | fastlane` | oh |
| 23:20.41 | ShadowJK | and they ate my RAM and half of my 8gig swapfile. bastards. :-( |
| 23:20.51 | fastlane` | sigh |
| 23:21.16 | fastlane` | yea they always operate on a --no-mercy compiler switch :p |
| 23:22.38 | Sysaxed | I have a laptop with 1 gb RAM |
| 23:22.43 | fastlane` | oh |
| 23:22.52 | fastlane` | whats the processor |
| 23:22.55 | Sysaxed | and something was swapped only 3-4 times in my life on that pc |
| 23:23.17 | Sysaxed | so it's more than enough for running firefox, skype, dropbox, eclipse, blender |
| 23:23.26 | ShadowJK | My N900 can run the x86-emulator written in javascript, booting linux. My quad-core desktop is forced to its knees by what is essentially static text. There's something wrong with web. |
| 23:23.30 | Sysaxed | simultaneously, of course |
| 23:23.56 | Sysaxed | fastlane`, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/2013-01-12-012347_1280x751_scrot.png |
| 23:24.21 | fastlane` | Error (404) |
| 23:24.22 | fastlane` | We can't find the page you're looking for. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home. |
| 23:28.41 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~Sysaxed@82.131.1.117.cable.starman.ee) |
| 23:30.14 | Sysaxed | fastlane`, sorry, my connection was lost halfway uploading a screenshot. check it again :) |
| 23:31.15 | fastlane` | oh np, yes its accessible now |
| 23:37.35 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed_ (~Sysaxed@82.131.1.117.cable.starman.ee) |
| 23:37.52 | Sysaxed_ | fastlane`, by the way, why does it matter? |
| 23:43.11 | fastlane` | it doesnt i guess |
| 23:43.45 | ShadowJK | My Atom 550 (iirc) machine has same web browser benchmark scores as my android tablet :/ |
| 23:44.06 | ShadowJK | My 2006 vintage AMD Sempron box beats them both by miles |
| 23:44.16 | fastlane` | but with that ram, eclipse is not that ram friendly or is it? |
| 23:44.30 | fastlane` | which android tab do u have? |
| 23:44.38 | ShadowJK | Asus TF700 |
| 23:44.43 | fastlane` | hm |
| 23:44.59 | ShadowJK | Quad core tegra 3 @ 1.66 Ghz |
| 23:45.33 | ShadowJK | The Sempron 3100+ runs at 1.8GHz clock frequency, iirc. |
| 23:46.04 | fastlane` | android is not that ram friendly i guess |
| 23:46.09 | ShadowJK | For h264 decoding, dual-core Atom 330 (@1.66Ghz) sometimes beats the sempron :) |
| 23:46.22 | ShadowJK | Android is ram-paranoid |
| 23:46.40 | fastlane` | my friend has a nexus 3, and i start browsing couple of websites on chrome on android 4.2 i think |
| 23:46.57 | fastlane` | and after a while, the website kind of page ot whatever |
| 23:47.01 | fastlane` | or* |
| 23:47.14 | fastlane` | give n900 1 gb ram :$ |
| 23:47.15 | fastlane` | hehe |
| 23:47.16 | ShadowJK | If you switch tabs or switch app, it "forgets" the other apps or tabs |
| 23:47.27 | fastlane` | true that ! |
| 23:47.35 | ShadowJK | It's really annoying |
| 23:47.53 | ShadowJK | Like, I open tabs so that I'd not have to suffer loading times |
| 23:47.59 | ShadowJK | and then it goes and discards the page anyway |
| 23:48.01 | ShadowJK | pisses me off |
| 23:48.05 | ShadowJK | N900 does better |
| 23:48.25 | fastlane` | yes and then its like we r trying to kill these problems with faster n faster hardware, rather then doing something about it in the software ... but then i guess nothing more can be done as the wole system is running java |
| 23:48.36 | fastlane` | nothing is deterministic in nature there |
| 23:48.52 | Sysaxed_ | fastlane`, eclipse is fine. 100-300 megs ram usage |
| 23:48.57 | fastlane` | hm |
| 23:49.24 | fastlane` | galaxy note 2 is supposed to FAST damn it |
| 23:49.34 | fastlane` | but again, the same problems |
| 23:49.41 | fastlane` | with 2gb ram |
| 23:49.57 | Sysaxed_ | fastlane`, java is not that slow really |
| 23:50.02 | ShadowJK | There's also this thing where anyhting that is not in foreground is suspended |
| 23:50.22 | fastlane` | hmm, their own scheduling |
| 23:50.39 | ShadowJK | it's the basis of android's power saving strategy |
| 23:50.45 | fastlane` | hm |
| 23:51.18 | ShadowJK | It effectively disables multitasking |
| 23:51.19 | fastlane` | power saving my foot :p |
| 23:51.51 | Sysaxed_ | disables... I thought it was called "kills" |
| 23:52.11 | fastlane` | is there a kill even? |
| 23:52.27 | fastlane` | why wasnt just everything written in c |
| 23:52.45 | ShadowJK | I have a habbit of opening, say, theregister.co.uk, and then "open in new tab" every interesting article, switch to IRC to pass some time while browser loads, switch back... except browser has been paused while I've been ircing, and I STILL have to wait for shit to load |
| 23:53.06 | ShadowJK | god damn it, if I have 4 cores, I wouldn't mind 3 of them used for the browser when I'm in irc |
| 23:53.11 | Sysaxed_ | ShadowJK, that's why we have n900, right? |
| 23:53.17 | ShadowJK | True that |
| 23:53.23 | fastlane` | absolutely ! |
| 23:53.25 | ShadowJK | I use my N900 more than the android tablet |
| 23:53.30 | fastlane` | hehe |
| 23:53.51 | ShadowJK | the touchscreen on the android drives me bonkers sometimes too |
| 23:54.25 | Sysaxed_ | capacitive touchscreens... :\ |
| 23:54.29 | ShadowJK | I have vibration feedback turned on. It only works in specific apps. By specific apps I mean the virtual keyboard. Everywhere else you get no feedback. |
| 23:54.41 | fastlane` | i cudnt spend money on these tablets, but i guess i may on the 16gb nexus 7 ... for reading books in pdf |
| 23:54.52 | fastlane` | is there a CHM file reader on android |
| 23:55.09 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@93.104.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 23:55.32 | ShadowJK | However, sometimes in the middle of hte night, I get woken up by the tablet vibrating furiously, when it htinks that someone has touched it and activated touchscreen and is typing the next best-seller novel consisting of "aaaaaaasssssdddddffffghhhyyyuuuttrtrrrrrrfffffvvvnnnmmmm" |
| 23:55.44 | fastlane` | lol |
| 23:55.51 | *** join/#maemo caemir (~caemir@unaffiliated/caemir) |
| 23:56.01 | fastlane` | :D |
| 23:56.10 | ShadowJK | The lack of sufficiently large screen bezel is annoying |
| 23:56.20 | ShadowJK | because you have to hold it with your hand covering the touchscreen |
| 23:56.29 | ShadowJK | if your hand covers the touchscreen, it registers as an input |
| 23:56.54 | ShadowJK | Some apps consider that input a part of a "pinch to zoom" gesture or similar |
| 23:56.56 | fastlane` | hmm |
| 23:57.26 | ShadowJK | So you can't actually scroll until you let go of the thing and make sure you're only touching it with one single body part |
| 23:57.32 | fastlane` | oh the pinch to zoom patent !!! apple think no one in the whole world cud have come up with it! |
| 23:57.33 | fastlane` | :@ |
| 23:57.54 | ShadowJK | This actually varis between apps, some apps don't care about extra stuff, but most do. |
| 23:57.56 | fastlane` | going around suing companies |
| 23:58.30 | fastlane` | its reallllllly hard to get used to capacitive screens, |
