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| 01:50.13 | rlinfati | Hi DocScrutinizer05 , about the maps for maemo5 and maemo6, check this. |
| 01:50.20 | rlinfati | for framantle: http://pastebin.com/J1j1AKQE |
| 01:50.57 | rlinfati | we need the maps, and the index... this example only download the global (continental?) maps. |
| 01:52.16 | rlinfati | like 1 = america, 2 europe, 3 africa, 4 asia, 5 oceania ( see the xml file ) |
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| 01:52.34 | rlinfati | and the "15" is Chile |
| 01:52.52 | rlinfati | ( for more country, see the xml file ) |
| 01:54.49 | rlinfati | for harmattan i not have the last version (0.2.47.103), but is easy to change the script http://pastebin.com/yDteE3ZM |
| 01:55.36 | rlinfati | for harmattan we need the maps, the index, and also the voices |
| 01:56.39 | rlinfati | bye...... |
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| 02:12.03 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody around I can quiz about migration issues? |
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| 02:27.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: shoot |
| 02:27.41 | GeneralAntilles | vcs.maemo.org SSL cert still stalled with Nokia? |
| 02:28.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | err yep, I think so |
| 02:28.40 | GeneralAntilles | OK |
| 02:28.43 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks |
| 02:28.50 | GeneralAntilles | Playing catchup on MWKN |
| 02:28.56 | GeneralAntilles | Unplanned 2-week holiday. |
| 02:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's all ? |
| 02:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 02:29.16 | GeneralAntilles | I managed to suss out the coding competition device winner status. |
| 02:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need MWKN stuff? |
| 02:31.38 | GeneralAntilles | Got plenty, I think. |
| 02:31.55 | GeneralAntilles | 2-week backlog. |
| 02:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | how about appending content of http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD-.etc.hosts to your /etc/hosts? |
| 02:32.13 | GeneralAntilles | Ahh, good one. |
| 02:33.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess you'll have enough topics for next 4 MWKN |
| 02:34.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | last council meeting alone is enough for a whole MWKN issue |
| 02:34.39 | GeneralAntilles | Hmm, don't see the minutes in here. |
| 02:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's since mentalist been absent |
| 02:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I guess he will need a tad longer than usual for the meeting minutes this time ;-) |
| 02:35.59 | GeneralAntilles | I'll wait for the minutes. |
| 02:36.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | since we basically discussed migration strategy |
| 02:36.07 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa and fiferboy are MIA on the editing front. |
| 02:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez also MIA, in hospital |
| 02:37.04 | GeneralAntilles | Oops. Hope he's OK. |
| 02:37.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | hope so |
| 02:37.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sent a msg Thu or Fr |
| 02:38.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | some virus or sth |
| 02:38.29 | GeneralAntilles | Serious for hospitalization. |
| 02:38.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | dehydration |
| 02:39.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, I hope nothing they wouldn't be able to handle in a hospital |
| 02:40.05 | GeneralAntilles | Pump him full of saline. |
| 02:40.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 02:41.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | but usually you feel like shit(ting) for quite a few days, from my experience |
| 02:41.32 | GeneralAntilles | Not fun when it's coming out both ends. |
| 02:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 02:42.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'd really need him, council and esp board |
| 02:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | but fist of all he shall get well again |
| 02:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | first* |
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| 02:44.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: maybe better test if MWKN works at all ;-) |
| 02:44.48 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 02:44.49 | GeneralAntilles | Well |
| 02:45.03 | GeneralAntilles | I sent an email before the holidays asking if we wanted to take a break |
| 02:45.14 | GeneralAntilles | Garage sent me back an undeliverable about 10 days later. |
| 02:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nemeion should have put all old *.maemo.org into r/o mode |
| 02:46.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh mwkn.net |
| 02:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess that's unrelated :-) |
| 02:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | where is it hosted? |
| 02:47.33 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa's dedi |
| 02:48.02 | GeneralAntilles | Don't think it relies on anything on maemo.org |
| 02:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 02:48.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not |
| 02:48.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice site to publish stuff, when m.o is "down" |
| 02:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | re cert: we can renew that when and as soon as hiFo owns the domain |
| 02:52.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | re cert2: we got a fix in CSSU for the TURKTRUST vulnerability |
| 02:52.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui merlin1991 will ship it next few hours |
| 02:54.25 | jonwil | so who is maintaining maemo-security-certman-common-ca then (certificate DB)? |
| 02:54.38 | jonwil | old maintainer? CSSU? |
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| 03:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually i'm not quite sure if we really already got that fix |
| 03:01.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | assumed that since the guys hurried to ship a new T release |
| 03:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | had no time to follow up the details |
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| 03:22.42 | jonwil | It looks like merlin1991 made the actual change (i.e. there is no commit to the "upstream" repo) but where the actual content of that change came from I dont know (for example, who has whatever key is used to manage the signature at the end of certman.blacklist) |
| 03:22.57 | jonwil | anyhow, the main thing is that it IS being kept up to date with compromized certificates |
| 03:24.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess they used cert of CSSU then |
| 03:24.28 | jonwil | we would need to ask merlin1991... |
| 03:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | or nuked the signature of blacklist, which is a nonsense in my book anyway |
| 03:25.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I don't see why anybody is signing the list with certs *I* decided to trust or not to trust |
| 03:27.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and which process is checking such signature, with which ley, and who's checking/signing the process that does this check |
| 03:28.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ley/key/ |
| 03:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | this doesn't make sense, in fremantle |
| 03:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | thank God it doesn't, otherwise we had Aegis' predecessor |
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| 03:34.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: anyway, according to that script on tmo, removing certs is no problem |
| 03:35.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe they are just shipping that script as postinstall |
| 03:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1311592#post1311592 |
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| 04:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2013-01-06.log.html#t2013-01-06T21:11:15 |
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| 04:42.52 | internetishard | Is there one source to check the latest n900 firmware? Or are there 3rd party firmwares too? |
| 04:51.34 | internetishard | Also, how do you make it auto switch back to a real connection after switching to the MMS apn? |
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| 05:00.34 | Luke-Jr | internetishard: Gentoo ftw |
| 05:03.09 | internetishard | I don't follow, gentoo on n900? |
| 05:03.33 | internetishard | Luke-Jr: ... |
| 05:04.20 | Luke-Jr | right |
| 05:05.03 | internetishard | that's a chroot, I don't see what you're answering... |
| 05:09.02 | Luke-Jr | internetishard: you can boot it |
| 05:11.43 | internetishard | got an example to link me to? |
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| 05:12.25 | internetishard | I think after all these years we should have easily bootable states we can pop into the n900. Like images or configuration management scripts to setup to a certain state. |
| 05:13.31 | Luke-Jr | not really, I think I documented it somewhere, but I forget where <.< |
| 05:14.18 | Luke-Jr | http://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900 |
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| 07:33.32 | Pali | ping DocScrutinizer05 |
| 07:33.41 | Pali | what is with autobuilder? |
| 07:33.46 | Pali | when will be online? |
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| 08:14.47 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Sorry about that. Realised in bed last night. |
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| 08:14.59 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Daughter's birthday today, so I might have limited time to fix it up |
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| 11:32.49 | n3mu5 | #j ubuntu |
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| 11:43.53 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, no worries. I have time today. Be with your family, and happy birthday to your daughter. |
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| 12:22.45 | thedead1440 | andre__: is it possible to get an export of bugzilla bugs packages? |
| 12:23.00 | andre__ | thedead1440, I don't know what "bugs packages" are, plus which Bugzilla? |
| 12:23.12 | andre__ | do you mean bug reports / tivckets? |
| 12:23.29 | thedead1440 | yes bug reports + tickets |
| 12:23.42 | thedead1440 | the only bugzilla not on maemo.org seems to be for harmattan |
| 12:23.59 | andre__ | depends on which projects you refer to. |
| 12:24.04 | andre__ | e.g. there's also bugs.meego.com |
| 12:24.10 | andre__ | or the private Nokia Bugzilla instance. |
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| 12:24.50 | thedead1440 | https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/ |
| 12:24.57 | thedead1440 | ^^ that one |
| 12:25.01 | andre__ | thedead1440, I have nothing to do with harmattan-bugs.nokia.com |
| 12:25.09 | andre__ | that's nokia.com |
| 12:25.22 | andre__ | hence Nokia territory. |
| 12:25.24 | thedead1440 | ah ok; sorry for the trouble then. Thanks! |
| 12:25.44 | andre__ | not even sure if I still have shell access to bugs.maemo.org TBH |
| 12:26.16 | thedead1440 | oh; was just trying on a lead from TMO |
| 12:28.05 | andre__ | I'm wondering who in Nokia to ask. Problem is that I have no clue who is left there. |
| 12:28.26 | andre__ | maybe maybe maybe Eric Le Roux is still there, but nobody else comes to my mind. |
| 12:28.54 | andre__ | I remember that some "good" folks in Nokia set up harmattan-bugs.nokia.com by bypassing official ways. |
| 12:29.19 | andre__ | and Eric was one of them (the others coming to my mind have definitely left, Eric I don't know but probably too) |
| 12:29.28 | thedead1440 | :( |
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| 12:31.27 | thedead1440 | Eric Le Roux: I'm the EX-MeeGo EM Lead who used to work @ Nokia. Viva Bugzilla! |
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| 12:34.17 | andre__ | Ah. Where did you find that? |
| 12:34.26 | thedead1440 | https://twitter.com/erkki70 |
| 12:34.36 | andre__ | thedead1440, but why would you want harmattan-bugs.nokia.com anyway? |
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| 12:35.10 | thedead1440 | in case Nokia stops hosting it soon and it provides information on bugs, comments and workarounds |
| 12:35.57 | andre__ | well, you could just carete a readonly copy? |
| 12:36.06 | andre__ | it's been closed for ages anyway. |
| 12:36.59 | thedead1440 | indeed HTML files would then be used right? |
| 12:37.35 | andre__ | 1150 bug reports only. That's easy to crawl. |
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| 15:34.41 | Estel_ | ~seen Pali |
| 15:34.54 | dhfdhfg | ~seen Pali |
| 15:35.01 | infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 3h 41m 34s ago, saying: 'seems that tool "cmcli" could do that... there is -a param and need to specify "blacklist" domain'. |
| 15:35.44 | Estel_ | freemangordon, ping - do you, by any chance, read maemo-developers mailing list? |
| 15:36.55 | merlin1991 | I supose you mean QF9700 post? |
| 15:37.50 | Estel_ | nods |
| 15:38.25 | Estel_ | do you have any info I've missed, merlin1991? |
| 15:38.54 | merlin1991 | nope, do you know anything about someone trying to upstream that driver? |
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| 15:39.52 | Estel_ | I vaguely remember google results about it being put into list - just missed "window" for submitting things for next kernel, or something like that |
| 15:40.58 | Estel_ | i.e. it's rather about organizational things, bot bugs. AFAIK, sources are pretty clean, and no one usikng it encountered problems with modules itself (many, many people use it on desktops, compiling against own or mainstream kernels) |
| 15:41.19 | Estel_ | google'ing now for more details about upstreaming |
| 15:42.18 | Estel_ | although, as dm9601 made it into kernel, and it was released the same way - linux and android "generic" version released by Davicom + sources... |
| 15:42.31 | Estel_ | it seems, that upstreaming this one too is a must. |
| 15:43.01 | Estel_ | 'a must' as in "just a matter of time" |
| 15:43.47 | Estel_ | great, first result in google for "qf9700 kernel mainstream" is my mail to maemo-developers in mailing list archive, lol |
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| 15:57.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: I'll remove your infobot ignore, please don't mess with factoids |
| 15:58.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | general factoid rule: nobody usually ever redefines factoids |
| 15:59.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | create new ones if you like, and please prepend "#maemo " to the key, if factoid is not a globaly true one |
| 15:59.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal flash |
| 15:59.46 | infobot | "flash" is "<reply>see flashing" |
| 16:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal #maemo flash |
| 16:00.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
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| 16:01.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal #maemo closed |
| 16:01.11 | infobot | "#maemo closed" is "http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages" |
| 16:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal closed |
| 16:01.22 | infobot | "#maemo closed" is "http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages" |
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| 16:28.24 | Estel_ | Thanks DocScrutinizer05. No worries, I think everyone is more happy with me messing in Maemo internals, than Maemo politics. Furthermore, I'm more happy with it, too :D |
| 16:29.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | happy users, that's what we like most :-D |
| 16:29.12 | jonwil | I try to avoid politics too |
| 16:29.31 | jonwil | I am much happier knee deep inside some ARM ASM or some C code than I am trying to deal with political BS :) |
| 16:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, infobot ignore removed |
| 16:31.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: you're speaking big truth |
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| 16:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for me it's technical concepts |
| 16:32.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever |
| 16:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | [general notice] our awesome CSSU crew shipped a CSSU-T7.2 version today that's supposed to fix the annoying TURKTRUST cert issue. AIUI we're 3rd "distro" that acted accordingly, worldwide :-D |
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| 16:47.42 | jonwil | I feel for all those people stuck on old builds of Android and iOS who will never see updates that blacklist these compromised certificates |
| 16:48.57 | jonwil | On Maemo the relevant code and data is LGPL and can continue to be updated into the future as long as someone is out there with a N900, the skills to update the package and the interest and desire to do so |
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| 17:18.06 | juozapas | hi can u recommend some app for counting bandwidth when connected to cellular network (not wifi) ? |
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| 17:31.10 | amermelao | sup |
| 17:38.59 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, merlin1991: I have small hildon dialog application which ask user if he want to change Nokia supl server to Google supl |
| 17:39.38 | freemangordon | Pali: you are hero man :) |
| 17:39.54 | Pali | with 4 buttons: YES (always), NO (never), YES (for now), NO (for now) |
| 17:39.59 | freemangordon | Pali: BTW why not on #maemo-ssu? |
| 17:40.08 | Pali | I'm |
| 17:40.14 | freemangordon | hmm? |
| 17:40.33 | Pali | ah, now I see its on #maemo |
| 17:40.42 | freemangordon | :D |
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| 17:53.21 | kerio | Pali: "for now"? |
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| 18:44.40 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: How's it going? Should be able to assist in the next hour or so :-/ |
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| 18:46.40 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, slow. Had some unexpected company this morning. Not too many more left, though. |
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| 19:55.14 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Online now. Need to get the kids to bed |
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| 20:33.08 | NeutrinoPower | maybe my N900 is destroyed, I didn't chanced the software on maemo, last time I listed music before a few hours but now it doesn't boot, only until the white-blue Nokia-bootscreen disappears... :( |
| 20:38.24 | luf | NeutrinoPower: what repositories are you using? |
| 20:38.28 | kerio | NeutrinoPower: battery? |
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| 20:38.46 | kerio | luf: easier things first |
| 20:39.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Gadgetoid: good seller! complete and new device in perfect condition. will buy again any time. :-D |
| 20:41.26 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: 5th? |
| 20:41.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 20:42.03 | kerio | needs a name |
| 20:42.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I got 2 others without a name |
| 20:42.38 | kerio | you monster :( |
| 20:43.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | i might it call gift |
| 20:43.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it came in awesome xmas paper |
| 20:43.28 | kerio | gadget900 |
| 20:43.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | also nice |
| 20:44.18 | kerio | what about the other two, though? :s |
| 20:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm, scarface and blue |
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| 20:45.37 | kerio | is there a history for those names? |
| 20:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | scarface is really used, and blue came from bluefon |
| 20:45.49 | kerio | heh |
| 20:45.56 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: now i feel kinda bad |
| 20:46.03 | kerio | the current n900 is kerio900 for obvious reasons |
| 20:46.09 | kerio | but the old n900 is still there in its box |
| 20:46.15 | kerio | and he used to be kerio900 |
| 20:46.19 | kerio | *his box |
| 20:46.23 | NeutrinoPower | luf: extras-testing and extras-devel |
| 20:46.48 | kerio | ...i suppose that he's still kerio900, just without a battery and not being used anymore |
| 20:47.05 | NeutrinoPower | it also didn't boot with USB-connection but now I hear the start-sound |
| 20:47.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | she! |
| 20:47.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you choose the gender of your own phones, i choose the gender of mine |
| 20:47.59 | RST38h | kerio: You have just reminded me |
| 20:48.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, wanna buy a phone with a broken usb port? |
| 20:48.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends |
| 20:48.33 | RST38h | Much quieter this way. |
| 20:49.26 | kerio | RST38h: glad to help |
| 20:49.37 | NeutrinoPower | yeah, the N900 works again! :) |
| 20:49.59 | NeutrinoPower | I dont' know why |
| 20:50.37 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: italian keyboard, not sure which hv rev, rapuyama had some problems, usb port is nonworking but can still get a connection somehow |
| 20:50.52 | kerio | fairly scratched |
| 20:51.02 | kerio | ...i'm not sure why i still have it |
| 20:51.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't worth the shipping |
| 20:51.20 | NeutrinoPower | I have activated "SmartReflex" since a few weeks without problems |
| 20:51.44 | kerio | NeutrinoPower: it should work without issues with a recent kernel-power |
| 20:52.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you got a hw rev where it fails |
| 20:52.08 | cehteh | like mine :P |
| 20:52.23 | kerio | ooh, there are some known hv revs where it fails? |
| 20:52.43 | cehteh | does it make a noticeable difference on the n900? |
| 20:53.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a particularly good question |
| 20:53.13 | kerio | cehteh: eeh, probably not |
| 20:53.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | never heard any *hard* numbers |
| 20:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all it's just hw driven Vcore vs sw-controlled Vcore changing |
| 20:53.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 20:54.27 | kerio | can't really hurt though, if it works |
| 20:54.33 | cehteh | with an undervolted device there isnt much room for driving vcore |
| 20:54.43 | kerio | cehteh: oh you |
| 20:54.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the main difference would be in less "overhead" for switching Vcore "manually" and using up CPU cycles for that |
| 20:55.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the cpu cycles are probably used anyway, though |
| 20:55.17 | kerio | cehteh: is undervolting really worth it? |
| 20:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, unless you deactivate the Vcore switching in sw |
| 20:55.27 | cehteh | cpu cycles when the cpu is awake are not that expensive |
| 20:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 20:56.21 | cehteh | kerio: yes, with some caution, and dont do it too extreme, but the stock values are on a 'save bet which works everywhere' so there is quite some room |
| 20:56.42 | cehteh | but its really hard to debug and proof |
| 20:57.06 | Gadgetoid | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks, don't happen to want a Tapwave Zodiac do you? hahaha |
| 20:57.15 | cehteh | anyways i found out that the dsp was malfunctioning on the low freq undervoltate, not on high frequency |
| 20:57.22 | cehteh | that was a pita to find out |
| 20:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Gadgetoid: probably not |
| 20:57.57 | cehteh | increased voltage for the 250mhz combo slightly fixed it |
| 20:58.00 | Gadgetoid | DocScrutinizer05: That's okay… nobody does :D |
| 20:58.00 | kerio | hm, the cpu on this one can't stand the "ideal" kernel-config |
| 20:58.09 | Gadgetoid | Got my Revo K101 from the office today, nice GBA clone |
| 20:58.12 | cehteh | ideal is undervolting |
| 20:58.22 | kerio | (500-850) |
| 20:58.37 | kerio | which i'm not really sure why is called "ideal" |
| 20:58.55 | cehteh | i have 250-850 derrived from ideal but slightly adapted |
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| 20:59.13 | kerio | meh, OCing isn't really worth it imo |
| 20:59.17 | cehteh | yes .. and its a very specific thing to your device |
| 20:59.33 | cehteh | more ram :( |
| 20:59.45 | cehteh | oc helps a little in few apps ... |
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| 21:00.15 | cehteh | what would help a lot would be more ram or compcache/zram at least |
| 21:00.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | OC is worth it when you're bound to some timepace like for 25fps |
| 21:00.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | either you make it, or not |
| 21:00.38 | cehteh | but nokias kernel changes for swapping introduce some bugs in compcache |
| 21:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | for anything else, OC by less than 100% is evidently mostly placebo |
| 21:01.00 | cehteh | my rasberrypi works *much* more smoothly with zram |
| 21:01.22 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: for few cpu bound apps it helps ... |
| 21:01.47 | cehteh | but as soon you have mmc io or display io things are leveled |
| 21:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it helps to become *maybe* 30% faster, that's however a speedup most users don't even notice |
| 21:02.06 | cehteh | rendering in monav is noticeable faster |
| 21:02.17 | cehteh | yes |
| 21:02.23 | kerio | cehteh: why monav and not modrana? |
| 21:02.41 | cehteh | vector maps |
| 21:02.46 | kerio | ...that *is* neat |
| 21:03.01 | cehteh | and *awesome* routing capabilities |
| 21:03.09 | kerio | modrana uses monav's routing :) |
| 21:03.21 | cehteh | dunno does modrana use the monav routing ... ah yes |
| 21:03.35 | cehteh | well i have an old monav on my device and put updates on blacklist |
| 21:03.53 | kerio | why? |
| 21:03.59 | cehteh | because my map data is slightly outdated .. but works still better than anything else |
| 21:04.08 | cehteh | too lazy to generate new maps |
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| 21:04.28 | kerio | do i need to do that? |
| 21:04.53 | cehteh | if you dont find a place where you can download maps for the actual monav, then yes |
| 21:05.15 | kerio | no, i mean, can't i generate the map tiles on the device itself? |
| 21:05.24 | cehteh | i used the old 'germany_big' maps from christoph .. but the newer monav changed the on disk formar |
| 21:05.40 | cehteh | vector format and some special files for routing |
| 21:06.17 | cehteh | monav's routing logic is fast because of an awesome engineered format which puts the logic in the preprocessed files |
| 21:06.31 | cehteh | generating this files needs a lot resources and a beefy computer |
| 21:06.40 | kerio | the mapsets are pregenerated, right? |
| 21:06.45 | kerio | the ones on http://monav.openstreetmap.de/ |
| 21:07.03 | cehteh | monav itself just traverses this and can do routing acros the whole country in a blink of a eye |
| 21:07.21 | cehteh | yes iirc these are not compatible with the actual monav version |
| 21:07.26 | kerio | aww :( |
| 21:07.39 | cehteh | i used the germay_big there (unpacked and then packed it again on a squashfs) |
| 21:08.07 | cehteh | needed me to backport squashfs tools for the squashfs version on the n900 as well |
| 21:09.17 | cehteh | and the germany_big map includes insanely much details .. even small trails and footpaths, only that its few years old now |
| 21:09.35 | cehteh | and bike/hike routing works extremely well |
| 21:09.54 | cehteh | (in most cases .. haha sometimes OSM data fails) |
| 21:11.08 | cehteh | ah kerio the 'osm installer for the n900' on that page contains the old version i am using .. the maps are compatible with that |
| 21:11.26 | kerio | so i shouldn't use the one on extras-devel? |
| 21:13.15 | cehteh | nope that one is newer |
| 21:13.24 | cehteh | or use that and generate new maps |
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| 21:16.44 | kerio | cehteh: well, you could redownload the german maps from there |
| 21:17.17 | cehteh | i prolly generate new maps and recompress them |
| 21:17.31 | cehteh | my new laptop should be beefy enough :P |
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| 21:24.18 | kerio | why squashfs, though? |
| 21:26.11 | StyXman | cehteh: these monav files are tha same ones that marble, the qt/kde app can use? |
| 21:29.17 | StyXman | right now I see in your site the file for Spain from 2011-04-20, but marble has a file for teh same country from 30/12/2012 |
| 21:30.56 | kerio | StyXman: where are those files? |
| 21:31.29 | cehteh | StyXman: the monav from extras-devel is newer and needs another format |
| 21:31.31 | kerio | StyXman: marble uses the monav routing |
| 21:31.42 | kerio | the maps are tile based i think |
| 21:32.27 | cehteh | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MoNav |
| 21:33.15 | kerio | cehteh: yay vector maps |
| 21:33.26 | kerio | but no sea :( |
| 21:33.46 | cehteh | no sea? |
| 21:34.08 | cehteh | hehe .. since i live in the southwest of germany now i never checked :) |
| 21:34.12 | kerio | no blue area around italy |
| 21:34.34 | cehteh | well other water bodies are seen .. lakes and rivers |
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| 21:42.32 | M4rtinK | cehteh, kerio: if you need just Monav routing data, I have a dataset with world coverage from october |
| 21:42.39 | M4rtinK | on: http://data.modrana.org/monav/ |
| 21:43.28 | kerio | M4rtinK: modrana uses tiles :( |
| 21:43.48 | M4rtinK | (it was generated in less than 5 hours on a server generously provided by my Uni :) ) |
| 21:43.53 | cehteh | M4rtinK: that doesnt work with the monav vector rendering? |
| 21:44.13 | M4rtinK | cehteh: I skipped vector map data generation |
| 21:44.25 | cehteh | ok |
| 21:44.26 | kerio | M4rtinK: :( |
| 21:44.31 | M4rtinK | as thatsa currently not supported by modRana |
| 21:44.34 | cehteh | well i look into generating my own maps |
| 21:44.53 | kerio | M4rtinK: generated from world.osm? |
| 21:44.56 | M4rtinK | I wanted to get the map packages ass small as possible |
| 21:45.00 | cehteh | i like what christoph did .. germany with big bounding box into neighbouring countries |
| 21:45.24 | M4rtinK | from the individual geofabrik extracts |
| 21:46.53 | M4rtinK | using a diffed planet.osm & osmosis to get the extracts is on my TODO list |
| 21:47.12 | M4rtinK | BTW, the repository generator is here: |
| 21:47.14 | M4rtinK | https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana-data-repository |
| 21:47.45 | kerio | M4rtinK: are there premade map packages for modrana? |
| 21:48.01 | M4rtinK | shouldn't be difficult to modify the monav-preprocessor commandline to also include vector map data |
| 21:48.27 | M4rtinK | kerio: only the global Monav routing data |
| 21:48.40 | kerio | i was talking about the tile |
| 21:48.41 | kerio | *tiles |
| 21:48.58 | M4rtinK | kerio: nope, none |
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| 21:49.48 | kerio | cehteh: can monav do voices? |
| 21:50.03 | kerio | marble can, but i'm not sure which kind of maps it uses |
| 21:50.09 | M4rtinK | IIRC there is some branch that does voice directions |
| 21:50.25 | cehteh | christoph worked on that, actually had it working at home, but i dont know if that made it into the mainline |
| 21:50.28 | M4rtinK | and of course modRana has voice directions for the routes provided by Monav |
| 21:50.47 | cehteh | i can ask him when i met him .. but thats some weeks ahead :) |
| 21:51.07 | cehteh | i dunno about the current state of monav either .. if anyone developing on it |
| 21:51.31 | cehteh | the main author vanished iirc and other contributors are occupied |
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| 21:51.39 | M4rtinK | BTW, I would like to also support vector map rendering in modRana eventually |
| 21:51.51 | M4rtinK | probably based on the Kothic project: https://github.com/kothic/kothic |
| 21:51.52 | cehteh | M4rtinK: that would be cool |
| 21:52.22 | M4rtinK | should be quite straightforward for the GTK UI |
| 21:53.27 | M4rtinK | the resulting maps can look like this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kothic |
| 21:54.50 | kerio | M4rtinK: how is one supposed to tell modrana to download a nation, or something like that? |
| 21:56.34 | M4rtinK | kerio: it is not yet supported in the UI |
| 21:57.05 | M4rtinK | and also the repository doesn't generate the necessary metadata for this to work yet |
| 21:57.20 | M4rtinK | you have to download the data manually for now |
| 21:57.37 | M4rtinK | BTW, there is a guide how to do it: https://wiki.maemo.org/ModRana_offline_routing_guide |
| 21:57.58 | M4rtinK | eventually I would like to do it like in marble |
| 21:58.40 | M4rtinK | continent->country->region, select what package you want |
| 21:58.50 | M4rtinK | + update notifications |
| 21:59.08 | M4rtinK | + differential updates with zsync :) |
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| 23:00.24 | StyXman | kerio: yes, marble just uses the routing, and it uses tiles which can work both offline :) |
| 23:01.51 | StyXman | 22:44 < cehteh> well i look into generating my own maps |
| 23:01.59 | StyXman | cehteh: vector or tiles? |
| 23:02.05 | StyXman | I'm playing with tiles |
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| 23:16.41 | cehteh | StyXman: vector of course .. much better rendering and less diskspace |
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| 23:19.55 | M4rtinK | cehteh: and you can also render different styles from the same dataset :) |
| 23:21.12 | M4rtinK | StyXman: this is a format for bulk tile storage supported by modRana: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/SQLiteStorageDescriptionEN |
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| 23:21.41 | cehteh | well the monav vector renderer is very minimalistic |
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| 23:22.29 | M4rtinK | storing tiles in a sigle file/db results in huge space saving or else each tile image would occupy at least 64 kB on the FAT32 FS in MyDocs |
| 23:23.14 | cehteh | M4rtinK: have you investigated the cloudgps rendering .. tiles so far, but it uses opengles if someone is eager it should be doable to render vector maps there .. in a very smooth way |
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| 23:26.31 | M4rtinK | cehteh: it's using SDL & OpenGL ES |
| 23:26.51 | M4rtinK | other than that it's tile based like modRana |
| 23:27.01 | cehteh | yes |
| 23:27.30 | cehteh | but a vector renderer in opengles should be 'relative' simple, schouldnt it? |
| 23:27.31 | M4rtinK | (it also uses the same maps folder as modRana, so you can share map tiles with it if you don't use sqlite for tile storage) |
| 23:27.59 | M4rtinK | no idea |
| 23:28.09 | M4rtinK | I've never actually worked with OpenGL |
| 23:28.21 | cehteh | on the other hand .. i am wondering if one could render tiles on the device into some cache (sqlite) which expire when not used |
| 23:28.45 | cehteh | but tiles never look pretty when rotated |
| 23:29.20 | M4rtinK | a good realtime renderer handles even rotation |
| 23:29.39 | M4rtinK | so that you don't get upside down names, etc. |
| 23:29.55 | cehteh | yes but you cant cache that very well :) |
| 23:30.01 | cehteh | or you need some text overlay |
| 23:30.01 | M4rtinK | but even a simple tile renderer would be a huge improvement IMO |
| 23:30.08 | M4rtinK | yeah |
| 23:30.52 | M4rtinK | but Navit & Nokia maps do that IIRC |
| 23:31.06 | cehteh | rotating only every 22,5°, not fractions could help a bit .. but prolly not worth the efforts |
| 23:31.14 | M4rtinK | yeah, that would be another possibility |
| 23:31.18 | M4rtinK | a cached background |
| 23:31.22 | M4rtinK | and a dynamic overlay |
| 23:31.49 | M4rtinK | nope, you wan't fluent rotation, so that it can follow the direction of your travel |
| 23:32.17 | cehteh | cache background at fixed angles .. and then only a quarter of them .. rotating by 180 and 90° is easy to do without loss |
| 23:32.52 | cehteh | and then either render overlay text dynamically or create overlay tiles with texts which are more agressively expired |
| 23:33.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, rander from next better resultion via downsampling, looks pretty at any degree of rotation |
| 23:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | render even |
| 23:33.28 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: talking about rotation, not downsampling |
| 23:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 23:33.43 | cehteh | and different zoom levels have different levels of detail |
| 23:34.00 | cehteh | you cant just downsample/upsample .. |
| 23:34.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 23:34.10 | cehteh | (for preview yes) |
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| 23:34.47 | M4rtinK | well you need to have different LoD |
| 23:34.53 | cehteh | cartography is also some kind of art, not just dumb rendering |
| 23:35.14 | M4rtinK | or else it would die a horrible death if you ever zoom out over a big city |
| 23:35.26 | cehteh | not only that |
| 23:36.37 | cehteh | real paper maps even move villages slightly aside to make room for a motorway for example, that wont work well on gps accurate computer maps |
| 23:36.41 | cehteh | but just get the idea |
| 23:37.21 | M4rtinK | btw, once you have the vector data, you can also use it for introspection, not just rendering |
| 23:37.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for the noise then |
| 23:37.40 | M4rtinK | like checking if you are inside a residential area & issuing a speed warning |
| 23:37.47 | cehteh | if you look at germany on a lower zoom level then the 'autobahn' rendered are serveral kilometers wide for example .. but still they pass along or through villages |
| 23:38.04 | cehteh | M4rtinK: yes |
| 23:38.15 | M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: I think you are right, as IMHO properly implemented rotation looks quote ok |
| 23:38.29 | M4rtinK | *quite |
| 23:39.16 | M4rtinK | cehteh: what vector drawing capabilities does OpenGL(ES) have ? |
| 23:39.27 | cehteh | dunno |
| 23:39.32 | M4rtinK | eq, lines, rectangles, curves, text ? |
| 23:40.37 | M4rtinK | well, I always though OpenGL is mostly about mapping textures to 3D objects |
| 23:40.40 | cehteh | but isnt opengl all about that? |
| 23:40.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess poligons |
| 23:40.46 | tadzik | erm, I remember talking here to someone who claimed that Windows Phone doesn't deserve to be called a smartphone. After some experiences, I have to agree |
| 23:41.05 | cehteh | this 3d objects are polygons .. or triangles at least |
| 23:41.21 | cehteh | you dont need to map them you can color them in one color |
| 23:41.45 | cehteh | and you can stay in 2D of course .. only rotate for a 3D view |
| 23:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: lol |
| 23:42.07 | cehteh | while relative accurate height data for the entire world is freely available iirc |
| 23:42.17 | tadzik | the point was that the platform is so closed that it's not even funny |
| 23:42.25 | cehteh | haha |
| 23:42.30 | M4rtinK | yep, SRTM & some other dataset too |
| 23:42.36 | cehteh | i will never ever touch that |
| 23:42.40 | tadzik | I just tried to create a Windows 8 application. I can compile it alright, but if I want to run it (yes, on my local machine) I have to get a developer license |
| 23:42.54 | tadzik | and no, an email address is not sufficient. Give us your phone number, bitch |
| 23:42.58 | cehteh | i have some hopes for jolla |
| 23:43.06 | cehteh | that looks nice |
| 23:43.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | then please support it |
| 23:43.39 | cehteh | gimme a note2 (or similar hardware) and sailfish please |
| 23:44.21 | tadzik | I suppose that the paperclip calls you home if you dereference a null ref somewhere |
| 23:44.30 | tadzik | sighs and stops whining |
| 23:44.35 | cehteh | i got my wife a note 2 w/ android .. nice hardware but android does not convince me (yes nice features, but also a lot i miss, and too much nonfree ads andcrap) |
| 23:44.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | checked that samsung tablet with sylus last weekend, was quite nice, for a c-ts |
| 23:44.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | stylus even |
| 23:44.52 | cehteh | yep |
| 23:45.08 | cehteh | and imo just the right sizel .. i like it :) |
| 23:45.17 | cehteh | but i need a useable OS |
| 23:45.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep!! :-D |
| 23:45.36 | cehteh | and with quadcore 1.6ghz and 2GB ram you can do serious things |
| 23:45.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I almost bought one |
| 23:45.58 | cehteh | i very much like the OLED display |
| 23:46.17 | cehteh | most awesome smartphone display i've seen so far |
| 23:47.19 | cehteh | we should pedition that hardware and sonftware makers should be split and no company can produce both :P |
| 23:47.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | only thing that stopped me been my holy oath to never ever buy anything sponatneously again, without prior recherche in internet |
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| 23:47.55 | M4rtinK | I'm seeing a lot of devices with wacom digitizers lately |
| 23:48.06 | cehteh | yes dont do .. unless you find some usable OS .. as maemo user andoid will piss you in some way |
| 23:48.32 | M4rtinK | did their patents finally expire or did they just wen't less insane concerning licencing ? |
| 23:48.53 | cehteh | its mighty and countless more features .. but nagware, viruses, strange multitasking .. |
| 23:49.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: you're aware this would directly and inevitably lead to closed software? |
| 23:49.28 | M4rtinK | an affordable decently sized LCD drawing tablet would be be nice :) |
| 23:49.34 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: not if harware is sold bare and one can pick on your own |
| 23:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, hardware *is* sold bare, you only need to wipe it |
| 23:50.31 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: there is a GCC compiler and binutils thing in the android store and i installed it on my wifes phone just to check it out |
| 23:50.44 | cehteh | hey .. and it comes with GUI showing you ads ... |
| 23:50.50 | cehteh | really .. wtf ... |
| 23:50.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | my point is that hw manufs need to provide board support packages which is already software |
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| 23:51.17 | cehteh | wrong button |
| 23:52.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | bare hardware is basically useless |
| 23:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | even for highly qualified system sw devels |
| 23:53.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it's the EE crew to provide the basic specs to develop drivers in *sw* |
| 23:53.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually they even provide such drivers |
| 23:53.46 | cehteh | well if someone wants to sell his bare hardware he needs to provide the docs/info about how to implement drivers for it .. or even (the better) agree on open standards and open drivers/interfaces |
| 23:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a sw dude's view of the world |
| 23:54.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | chip manufs don't give a sh*t about it |
| 23:54.44 | cehteh | well my pedition demand was rather comical .. i know that has no chance |
| 23:55.01 | cehteh | well only because the market is as it is |
| 23:55.12 | cehteh | even chip manucaturers want to sell their crap |
| 23:55.28 | cehteh | and if they only can do so if they work openly enouhg they would |
| 23:55.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | because the world is as it is, there'll always be some chip baker that comes up with a new awesome hw interface for whiich no standard is available |
| 23:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's called technical progress |
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| 23:57.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ince there been uart, then came i2c, then ULPI, then HSI |
| 23:57.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | once* |
| 23:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | same for LCD interface or any other stuff |
| 23:58.05 | cehteh | would be nice if you could connect the laptop screen from my old laptop to my rpi ... woudlnt it? .. grr |
| 23:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nobody knows what awesome new acme hf interfaces we'll have to deal with tomorrow |
| 23:59.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | inter-chip optical fibre is just around the corner |