| 00:00.10 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, ShadowJK: I assume you're aware of the TI OMAP errata document of 2010? There's something bout "MMC: Multiple Block Read Operation Issue" |
| 00:00.22 | ShadowJK | Nope |
| 00:00.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
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| 00:01.48 | wirr | http://www.ti.com/product/omap3530 |
| 00:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway N18 doesn't show up as a pin name on OMAP3530 of N900 |
| 00:01.56 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, ok |
| 00:02.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems to indicate it's actually NC |
| 00:03.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | bookmarks this gem anyway, it's an excellent example of the daily WTF you're facing when building hw |
| 00:03.59 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, you're an electronics/hw guy? |
| 00:04.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~joerg |
| 00:04.26 | infobot | somebody said joerg was a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer |
| 00:06.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~docscrutinizer |
| 00:06.29 | infobot | rumour has it, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko |
| 00:06.49 | wirr | I see. :-) |
| 00:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd actully say senior EE |
| 00:07.42 | wirr | so why don't you build a new device for us ;-) |
| 00:07.55 | wirr | does this ring a bell? "The maximum block size supported by the host controller is 1024 bytes. This value is hard-coded in the |
| 00:07.57 | wirr | register MMCi.MMCHS_CAPA[17:16] MBL field and cannot be changed. |
| 00:07.57 | wirr | " |
| 00:08.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | because it costs "a significan slice of a million", as SpeedEvil likes to put it |
| 00:08.45 | wirr | unsurprisingly... |
| 00:09.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | (ring a bell) well, it for sure should show up in driver somehow |
| 00:09.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | something that's hardcoded in hw needs also to get hardcoded to the driver |
| 00:10.05 | wirr | hmmm... so that's not related to /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests? |
| 00:10.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | err nope, that's number of entries in IO scheduler queue afaik |
| 00:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW number of pending IO |
| 00:11.03 | wirr | ok... |
| 00:11.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | should be unrelated to any blocksize |
| 00:11.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves and heads out for a nice beer |
| 00:11.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | next pub |
| 00:12.30 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, bye then and cheers |
| 00:12.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: (EE) I'm available btw, if you got some interesting project and the money to pay me :-) |
| 00:13.18 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05, I'm in network security, but who knows... |
| 00:14.08 | wirr | :-) |
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| 00:17.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: btw I contributed a bit to gta04 |
| 00:17.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | gta04.org |
| 00:18.23 | wirr | that's what i thought when you said openmoko... |
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| 00:19.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | gta04 basically unrelated to OM |
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| 00:20.00 | wirr | didn't know that |
| 00:21.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's an awesome incredible "one man project" courtesy Nikolaus Schaller, and recycles a few components of openmoko phones |
| 00:21.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never felt like the latter was an extremely brilliant idea |
| 00:22.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | could as well have used screen and case of N900 |
| 00:22.44 | wirr | would have been a more practical form factor... |
| 00:22.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | or arbitrary other case and LCD |
| 00:23.46 | wirr | but if he's still on it this might happen for a next release? |
| 00:24.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'm not involved in that project anymore |
| 00:24.14 | wirr | I see |
| 00:24.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
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| 10:30.28 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, extras builder still not working |
| 10:30.44 | Pali | see fremantle build queue: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php |
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| 12:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: Bergie just informed me that they are about to transfer autobuilder to a VM to keep it running, >>albeit probably very slow<< |
| 12:58.30 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, ok, do you know when it will work again? |
| 12:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | trying to get detailed info |
| 13:00.53 | Pali | ok |
| 13:00.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Niels / X-Fade doing that moving to VM |
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| 13:02.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | main issue for now is DNS, since Nokia not exactly responsive to any inquiries regarding that. Probably they simply don't answer Nemein's requests until the lawyers finished the paperwork with HiFo board |
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| 13:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and Nokia gave clearance for migration budget ~2 work weeks before new year, only then Nemein could start to do anything about it, so delay is all with Nokia, not Nemein |
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| 13:10.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | almost nobody inside Nokia left over who would even know what's maemo doesn't exactly help either |
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| 13:45.20 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the info, I was really wondering what's going on with autobuilder |
| 13:46.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | Niles had to disable/stop it so the old server and the VM won't get out of sync |
| 13:46.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | we still have no control over DNS |
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| 14:39.10 | sourav | hi everyone, can anyone help me in setting up ubuntu lucid desktop VM for fremantle in windows |
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| 15:11.42 | kerio | hrmpf, it's the second time that sourav asked that question |
| 15:12.01 | kerio | but really, how hard can it be to download virtualbox and adding a new VM with an existing drive? |
| 15:12.05 | kerio | *and to add |
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| 15:26.32 | Skry | apparently it can be quite hard |
| 15:26.44 | freemangordon | :D |
| 15:31.05 | Skry | I can understand asking once, but doing it repeatedly over few days instead of just googling about it or figuring it out by himself... |
| 15:31.40 | freemangordon | he esked me too, just an hour ago :D:D:D |
| 15:31.44 | freemangordon | *asked |
| 15:32.29 | Skry | he msg'd me too, though I never quite got what he was even asking |
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| 15:57.27 | freemangordon | thedead1440: hmm, what is that "However, Rob Baeur (SD69) has now informed me that Harmattan might not be involved in the Board's discussions with Nokia." supposed to mean? |
| 15:57.59 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: Let's clarify that the attached list is the one you are referring to. |
| 15:58.01 | thedead1440 | It has files which are on merlin1991's server and are on maemo.org. So those files should be deleted I believe before the list is forwarded to Nokia. |
| 15:58.03 | thedead1440 | I think we are unlikely to get Harmattan files now but you can try I guess. |
| 15:58.04 | thedead1440 | Rob |
| 15:59.01 | freemangordon | but what will happen with Harmattan then?!? |
| 15:59.07 | freemangordon | the fuck |
| 16:05.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sd69 honestly needs help with the technical implications of the migration |
| 16:07.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a tad unfortunate that probably neither side (board, nokia's lawyers) has full expertise about what maemo means and includes, on a technical level |
| 16:07.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither for HARM |
| 16:08.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually for HARM even I am basically clueless |
| 16:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | council got qwazix though, who seems pretty active and up to date with harmattan details |
| 16:10.25 | wirr | ShadowJK: I've found some more info about the troubling card: Allocation units are as big as 12M, Write Size is 64K and Page Size is 16K. This seems unusually high to me for an SDHC-card. Could this have any influence on the IO errors? |
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| 16:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway... |
| 16:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | [general notice] autobuilder considered down according to read-only notice on top of any maemo.org page |
| 16:17.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | please any of you following tmo closely, would you point your humble councilor [me] to any threads/posts relevant to council that I should notice (particularly those related to migration/backup). Thanks. |
| 16:22.38 | ShadowJK | wirr: yes, it could. Biggest AU I've seen so far is 8M. A 32g sandisk I recentlyish purchased is 4M |
| 16:23.07 | ShadowJK | the max timeout is approx 2s iirc, read-mod-write of 12M is going to take 2 sec at class 6 speeds... |
| 16:23.20 | ShadowJK | or slightly more :) |
| 16:24.07 | wirr | ShadowJK, I see... so this would mean ideally by optimizing alignment and fs options speeds _could_ be increased to stay below timeout? |
| 16:24.57 | ShadowJK | it'd mitigate it, I imagine |
| 16:25.41 | wirr | do you know of any other configurable or hardcoded options which could be tweaked? |
| 16:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | is there a way to completely disable, or retrigger, the timeout? |
| 16:29.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | also AIUI an allocation unit is a chunk of flash space that's supposed to get written in one operation? could we just ignore the 12M AU the card requests and go for smaller size? |
| 16:40.19 | ShadowJK | AU is totally hidden from host |
| 16:40.47 | ShadowJK | (except on newer cards they do provide hint as to what optimal would be) |
| 16:41.38 | ShadowJK | AU, as i understand it, is smallest physically erasable block. |
| 16:42.23 | ShadowJK | write size 64k sounds like smallest writable block, where the destination must be erased, is 64k |
| 16:42.24 | wirr | yep |
| 16:43.05 | ShadowJK | where destination must be already erased |
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| 16:44.07 | wirr | ShadowJK, I agree with that. do you know how i can configure the write size on linux? |
| 16:45.17 | ShadowJK | Well we don't have a filesystem that is flash aware |
| 16:45.30 | Apic | jffs rules |
| 16:45.49 | ShadowJK | but maybe tinkering with the raid stripe/stride options in ext* and the ext* block size? |
| 16:48.11 | ShadowJK | jffs sucks in that it keeps all filesystem metadata in ram |
| 16:48.15 | wirr | I've already adjusted stripe/stride to page size |
| 16:48.40 | wirr | but write size is 4 times page size... so this not possible without flash-aware fs? |
| 16:49.04 | ShadowJK | and has to scan entire device on mount |
| 16:49.05 | ShadowJK | nilfs2 might be more sensible, and some version of it seems to be included in kp |
| 16:49.50 | ShadowJK | can stripe/stride be adjusted to 64k? |
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| 16:51.24 | wirr | ShadowJK, possibly, haven't tried yet |
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| 16:51.49 | ShadowJK | I vaguely remember playing with this when I set up my adata card for my N800 |
| 16:52.22 | ShadowJK | but I forget the outcome :) |
| 16:57.16 | ShadowJK | wirr: does this card have a UHS logo on it too? |
| 16:57.33 | wirr | first test (using mass-storage! and kp52) gives approx 4.7MB/s |
| 16:57.39 | wirr | ShadowJK, yep |
| 16:57.58 | wirr | way better than with default params |
| 16:59.57 | ShadowJK | what params did you change? |
| 17:00.17 | ShadowJK | Using nr-requests tweak too? |
| 17:00.52 | ShadowJK | is at work and not supposed to irc, so I might reply with great latency |
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| 17:04.33 | ShadowJK | would be very interesting to be able to read SD specs and see what they've changed over time |
| 17:04.36 | wirr | ShadowJK, i've set nr_requests to 8192 using swappolube adjusted the partition layout to start with the first partition at 4megs (fat-optimized area from 4-12meg) and aligned all following partitions to 12meg boundaries (starting at 4, according to flashbench mailing list) |
| 17:05.02 | wirr | adjusted fat & ext4 filesystems to page size |
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| 17:07.31 | wirr | ShadowJK, i'm wondering if we should change default scheduler from cfq to noop (noop is ideal for ssd, but deadline, which is not available, would be better for sd, i think) |
| 17:13.12 | ShadowJK | On N800 I only have noop, and keep wishing for cfq ;) |
| 17:13.28 | wirr | ShadowJK, is that so? |
| 17:16.52 | ShadowJK | Well when I was researching this in maemo4 era last time (maemo5/n900 was such a huge improvement out of the box that I havent bothered much in that area), google searches found lots of eeepc users experimenting with this. Most users who tried noop came back saying "it's awesome" right after booting, then 15 minutes later started complaining about random apps or entire system mysterious stalling for tens of seconds at a time.. then they went back to cfq, |
| 17:16.57 | ShadowJK | which they deemed was "consistently fast, uh, consistently slow, but consistent" |
| 17:18.00 | Skry | I did test bfq some time ago, seemed to be better that cfq but I didn't benchmark it so might have been placebo |
| 17:18.06 | Skry | than |
| 17:19.13 | wirr | okay |
| 17:20.46 | ShadowJK | The fundamental issue is still that they're all flash-unaware.. some operations on flash will be essentially "free" while others will have a huge cost |
| 17:21.33 | ShadowJK | and all the schedulers more or less assume a harddrive, and cost is more or less a linear measure of how far away from last accessed block a potential disk access is |
| 17:22.07 | wirr | ShadowJK, but I think there's some development going on in that area, i think it's called 'fios' |
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| 17:24.06 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05 / SpeedEvil ; do you know if sd cards have internal oscillators or if they rely on host provided CLK? UHS cards running at really low speeds in SDHC hosts could be due to that too.. |
| 17:25.03 | Skry | iirc bfq has at least some ssd optimizations too |
| 17:26.00 | ShadowJK | SSDs, flash, and HD are all 3 distinct |
| 17:26.16 | ShadowJK | ssd optimization might hurt flash more than HD optimization |
| 17:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: sorry, no info here |
| 17:31.25 | ShadowJK | Afaict, the omap hsmmc hw's data timeout is specified in clock cycles, if we could drop hsmmc bus speed, the timeout would become longer.. but if card runs off of hsmmc clock, it'd run correspondingly slower too and it wouldn't change the situation :/ |
| 17:31.51 | ShadowJK | wonders if mmc clockspeed is related to cpu speed too, on N8x0 it was |
| 17:32.08 | freemangordon | on n900 too |
| 17:32.34 | freemangordon | that's why cpu is locked 2 min 500 with USB connected |
| 17:32.57 | Apic | 2 min 500? |
| 17:33.14 | freemangordon | @ min 500 MHz, sorry, typo |
| 17:33.41 | Apic | ic, now I get it |
| 17:34.34 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; can you tell what speeds mmc runs at with cpu @ 250, 500, 550, 600, 600+? |
| 17:34.50 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: though not to VDD1 OPP but to VDD2 OPP |
| 17:34.56 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: ^^^ |
| 17:35.50 | kerio | hold on, so setting the cpu to 500 or 600 would speed up the I/O? neat |
| 17:35.53 | freemangordon | can't remember what were VDD2 freqs |
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| 17:36.57 | freemangordon | kerio: no. you should tweak VDD2 frequency, CPU @ 500 or 600 does not make much of a difference |
| 17:38.30 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: can't remember at what speed mmc is clocked, but it is on the top limit |
| 17:39.26 | wirr | freemangordon, pali: would one of you be willing to compile an mmc module for power52 with timeout set to 7 or 13? |
| 17:40.05 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: from memory, external clock |
| 17:40.34 | freemangordon | wirr: iirc it is set to 13 or 14 right now |
| 17:40.52 | ShadowJK | Yeah it's 14 in powerkernel |
| 17:41.00 | wirr | freemangordon, 14... |
| 17:41.13 | freemangordon | and that's the highes allowed value afaik |
| 17:41.29 | wirr | freemangordon, yeah but strangely the card works fine on stock pr1.3 |
| 17:41.46 | freemangordon | I see |
| 17:41.58 | ShadowJK | wonders why the number 15 is reserved |
| 17:42.10 | freemangordon | are you sure you tested it long enough? o stock that is. |
| 17:42.21 | wirr | full 32gig read and write |
| 17:42.24 | wirr | sequential |
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| 17:44.40 | ShadowJK | ry hit with bonnie++ (in repos, devel probably or tools) |
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| 20:31.32 | wirr | ShadowJK: I've run tests with bonnie++: Despite the geometry, fs and scheduler tweaks this resulted in i/o errors and a complete crash of the device. next i've replaced the omap_hsmmc.ko with the one from cssu-thumb. and voilĂ now no more io errors and acceptable performance... |
| 20:32.17 | wirr | Pali: perhaps you could compile new omap_hsmmc modules for power52 with timeout values of 7 and 13? i'd be happy to test. |
| 20:33.12 | wirr | if someone's interested in the bonnie output just tell me |
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| 20:42.16 | ShadowJK | I forget, is cssu-thumb kernel different from powerkernel? |
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| 20:43.12 | ShadowJK | wirr: did bonnie fail on stock? |
| 20:43.22 | wirr | haven't tried yet |
| 20:43.35 | wirr | and yes, cssu-thumb and power52 modules differ |
| 20:44.45 | ShadowJK | what do you mean "7 and 13"? |
| 20:55.46 | luf | ShadowJK: if I remember right, cssu-thumb kernel is power-kernel (but not non-release kp52) |
| 20:57.22 | ShadowJK | so it probably has same hsmmc code as kp51 |
| 20:57.55 | wirr | ShadowJK, timeout values |
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| 20:59.40 | luf | ShadowJK: the best man to ask is freemangordon |
| 20:59.55 | luf | ShadowJK: or take a look into sources ;) |
| 21:00.02 | ShadowJK | wirr: btw where did you find out about the 12M thing? |
| 21:00.26 | wirr | ShadowJK, flashbench, wait a sec |
| 21:00.48 | wirr | ShadowJK, https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/Kernel/Projects/FlashCardSurvey?action=show&redirect=WorkingGroups%2FKernelConsolidation%2FProjects%2FFlashCardSurvey |
| 21:01.26 | wirr | Mine is the Sandisk Ultra SDSDU-032G-A11 "SU32G" (2012) |
| 21:06.19 | wirr | can someone point me to the sources of cssu-thumb and power52? |
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| 21:16.45 | ShadowJK | vaguely recalls there used to be a benchmark utility on that flashcardsurveypage :/ |
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| 21:37.00 | wirr | ShadowJK, git.linaro.org Git - people/arnd/flashbench.git/summary git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/arnd/flashbench.git;a=summary |
| 21:37.17 | ShadowJK | did you run it? |
| 21:37.32 | ShadowJK | (it's probably destructive) |
| 21:39.31 | wirr | yep |
| 21:39.45 | wirr | (only through mass storage) |
| 21:40.56 | ShadowJK | https://github.com/coffeemug/rebench |
| 21:41.00 | ShadowJK | get this too |
| 21:41.08 | ShadowJK | I'll give you params |
| 21:45.39 | ShadowJK | Or here's the script I normally use: http://enivax.net/jk/n900/flash/bench.sh |
| 21:46.06 | ShadowJK | Obviously edit the device name so you dont overwrite harddrives, and ediit path to executable |
| 21:46.40 | ShadowJK | Basically goes through random writes with 4k ... 12M block size.. |
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| 21:52.12 | ShadowJK | Warning: as it's a write test it will destroy existing data |
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| 22:45.03 | Apic | Night. |
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| 23:40.05 | Apic | Re. |
| 23:41.40 | ShadowJK | re |
| 23:43.25 | Apic | thx |
| 23:46.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | uh? |
| 23:48.03 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 23:48.32 | ShadowJK | Looks like I'll have to build myself a gaming PC next year-ish :) |
| 23:48.46 | ShadowJK | Elite:dangerous getting kickstarter funded |
| 23:52.56 | Apic | ;-) |
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| 23:59.12 | merlin1991 | just take nvidia over amd |
| 23:59.21 | merlin1991 | then you don't run into as many driver problems :D |