| 00:07.37 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 00:13.07 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 00:36.06 | *** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@209.251.152.97) |
| 00:41.33 | *** join/#maemo unifly (~unifly@host86-208-dynamic.250-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 00:44.04 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 00:44.30 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 00:46.13 | *** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~robbiethe@71-215-8-81.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 01:04.16 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@212-183-124-96.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 01:11.13 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot7 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 01:27.05 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@77.109.117.76) |
| 01:29.38 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid (cabc1206@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.188.18.6) |
| 01:35.23 | *** join/#maemo ian--- (ian---@78.133.67.84) |
| 01:53.11 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 01:55.25 | *** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.4.11.sysads.com) |
| 01:57.43 | *** join/#maemo bennym (~benny@ppp59-167-79-120.static.internode.on.net) |
| 02:00.56 | *** join/#maemo EchoDev (~Echo@kthnxbai.info) |
| 02:16.26 | *** part/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 02:18.52 | *** join/#maemo ekze (~nyan@bakaekze.ru) |
| 02:29.04 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 02:30.57 | *** join/#maemo user__ (~user@1.38.25.158) |
| 02:37.16 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 02:38.14 | *** join/#maemo jonwil_ (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 02:46.22 | *** part/#maemo sourav (~user@1.38.25.158) |
| 02:51.19 | *** join/#maemo beford (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 03:00.38 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B1644CC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:25.11 | *** join/#maemo sourav (~user@1.38.25.158) |
| 03:32.22 | sourav | hi could someone direct me to how to get start with (http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php) to compile for fremantle |
| 03:35.20 | sourav | do i need a linux pc |
| 03:35.32 | sourav | or windows |
| 03:56.03 | *** join/#maemo idoru (idoru@freenode/utility-bot/ex-server/idoru) |
| 04:01.23 | jonwil | You can either use a Linux PC or you can use a Windows PC with a Linux VM |
| 04:04.18 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:14.55 | sourav | how to setup in linux pc ? |
| 04:20.23 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@212.71.13.48.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 04:29.17 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB3A57.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:30.43 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 04:42.57 | *** join/#maemo netkat (~me@80.79.126.166) |
| 04:52.12 | *** join/#maemo tg (~irc@sch-1526621511.sch.bme.hu) |
| 04:54.28 | *** join/#maemo tadzik (tjs@feather.perl6.nl) |
| 04:54.31 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-178-007-130-208.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 05:06.54 | *** join/#maemo hurbu__ (~hurbanza@78.134.63.33) |
| 05:08.18 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 05:13.29 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 05:15.05 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 05:16.12 | *** join/#maemo bugzy (~bugzy@99-191-138-94.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:17.36 | *** join/#maemo zhxt (~zhxt@111.161.79.231) |
| 05:25.19 | *** join/#maemo hurbu__ (~hurbanza@78-134-106-152.v4.ngi.it) |
| 05:31.38 | merlin1991 | not sure if trolling: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85641 |
| 05:34.59 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 05:35.20 | sourav | haha |
| 05:44.39 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@funtoo/user/ZogG) |
| 05:48.34 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 05:49.29 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@212.255.19.30) |
| 06:06.50 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 06:16.03 | *** join/#maemo bennym_ (~benny@ppp59-167-79-120.static.internode.on.net) |
| 06:28.24 | *** join/#maemo Belzebub_ (~torrentow@195.117.144.66) |
| 06:36.44 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 06:56.51 | *** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@wsip-98-190-217-157.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 07:11.52 | *** join/#maemo joga (O7bmei4F@unaffiliated/joga) |
| 07:19.49 | *** join/#maemo FlameReaper (~assassin@203.82.92.46) |
| 07:38.36 | *** join/#maemo FlameReaper (~assassin@183.171.167.82) |
| 07:44.07 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (~philip@codeminded.be) |
| 07:45.07 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 07:51.16 | *** join/#maemo Belzebub (~torrentow@195.117.144.66) |
| 07:57.32 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~rm_you@50.125.80.136) |
| 07:57.32 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 08:02.11 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@88-149-211-89.v4.ngi.it) |
| 08:02.27 | *** join/#maemo pcfe` (~pcfe@brln-4db81ee9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 08:02.27 | *** join/#maemo pcfe` (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 08:05.28 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:10.33 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 08:14.16 | *** join/#maemo hurbu__ (~hurbanza@81.174.39.141) |
| 08:29.24 | *** join/#maemo xzone (~xzone@182.3.182.58) |
| 08:30.14 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~Milhouse@Maemo/community/contributor/Milhouse) |
| 08:40.30 | *** join/#maemo drath_n900 (~user@2001:0:53aa:64c:2c6a:3168:dad0:c55d) |
| 08:48.16 | *** join/#maemo Aranel_ (~Aranel@78.160.221.24) |
| 08:53.47 | *** join/#maemo sourav (~user@1.38.27.150) |
| 08:53.52 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 08:55.14 | *** join/#maemo drath_n900 (~user@2001:0:53aa:64c:2c6a:3168:dad0:c55d) |
| 09:00.00 | sourav | hi can anyone tell me which script or service locks screen |
| 09:00.54 | kerio | sourav: osso-systemui-tklock |
| 09:00.58 | kerio | it's a systemui plugin |
| 09:01.05 | joga | sourav http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Lock_screen_and_keys_.28slider_lockswitch.29 |
| 09:01.08 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 09:03.16 | sourav | thanks |
| 09:17.35 | sourav | help me installing VM on ubuntu-tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z |
| 09:17.59 | sourav | I mean I want to install it how to do so |
| 09:19.30 | *** join/#maemo sourav (~user@1.38.27.150) |
| 09:20.31 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:20.44 | joga | sourav seems like you need either vmware player, virtualbox or qemu to use it, personally I usually pick the PUEL version of Virtualbox for such things |
| 09:20.58 | joga | I haven't tried that image myself |
| 09:22.03 | *** join/#maemo edheldil (~edheldil@217.31.207.1) |
| 09:28.47 | *** join/#maemo thetet (~raggam-nl@91-114-180-79.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 09:29.31 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-190.telpol.net.pl) |
| 09:42.51 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg-work@fb2-pub-1.dv-nr.fh-frankfurt.de) |
| 09:48.08 | *** join/#maemo markmx (~mark@109.195.83.85) |
| 09:48.25 | markmx | hola evr1 |
| 09:48.47 | markmx | who tried to install nitroid? |
| 09:50.00 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@et-0-30.gw-nat.bs.kae.de.oneandone.net) |
| 09:52.05 | *** join/#maemo bennym (~benny@ppp59-167-79-120.static.internode.on.net) |
| 09:53.05 | sourav | what problem do you have ? |
| 09:58.06 | markmx | I live in russia... it's a big problem... |
| 09:59.29 | markmx | :) wanna ttry to install android on my old N900 |
| 10:02.29 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:06.44 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178222013.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:14.51 | *** join/#maemo kraft (kraft@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-wjowubwyqpqgsaym) |
| 10:24.55 | jpinx | is the Pierogi project still supported ? |
| 10:25.11 | jpinx | remote IR control for TV's etc... |
| 10:26.58 | thedead1440 | jpinx: I have seen it being supported... |
| 10:27.28 | *** part/#maemo markmx (~mark@109.195.83.85) |
| 10:27.55 | jpinx | their website is undated and the threads in the forums seem to be stagnant |
| 10:33.10 | kerio | well, it works fine |
| 10:33.22 | kerio | i think the author is just looking for some more keysets |
| 10:51.53 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~MetalGear@175.145.200.102) |
| 10:57.26 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-32690.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 10:58.15 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD28169.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:03.11 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@wikimedia/aklapper) |
| 11:08.42 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178222013.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:16.09 | *** join/#maemo _InvalidHandle_ (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:17.27 | *** join/#maemo Aoyagi_joytop (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 11:23.19 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 11:23.29 | EchoDev | Do you guys think it is still possible to find a new original Nokia N900 screen? |
| 11:23.40 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~Hurrian@121.54.2.104) |
| 11:23.50 | EchoDev | The top layer of my screen has a deep scratch on it and I would like to replace it |
| 11:24.48 | kerio | EchoDev: try ebay |
| 11:25.08 | Aoyagi_joytop | I think I saw one the other day, but I couldn't tell you where even if you were to torture me with hip hop. |
| 11:25.46 | EchoDev | plays hip hop |
| 11:25.47 | EchoDev | :3 |
| 11:26.02 | Belzebub | plays dubstep |
| 11:26.05 | Belzebub | :3 |
| 11:26.13 | EchoDev | Hmm, maybe I'll give Nokia a call you never know lol |
| 11:26.24 | Aoyagi_joytop | Heh. But it was some tiny unknown internet store anyway. |
| 11:26.42 | EchoDev | Ebay has them but I'm not sure they are original |
| 11:33.12 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178222013.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:42.03 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 11:48.50 | thedead1440 | thinks the Board only post/communicate when they need donations or help as a formality... |
| 11:55.55 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 11:56.33 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (lizardo@nat/indt/x-tsdwhtnncytvlmmy) |
| 12:07.48 | *** join/#maemo drath_n900 (~user@2001:0:53aa:64c:c10:134e:9230:c153) |
| 12:10.12 | *** join/#maemo thetet (~raggam-nl@178-190-151-17.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 12:13.43 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 12:14.08 | *** join/#maemo sourav (~user@1.38.24.145) |
| 12:19.36 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 12:29.05 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@ip-62-245-106-78.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 12:29.19 | *** join/#maemo sourav (~user@1.38.26.124) |
| 12:33.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | guys, http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libosso-abook/ etc - are those as well in SDK? or do we need to mirror it? |
| 12:34.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, if you want your council to take care about keeping maemo.org infra alive, you should help on defining that task at least |
| 12:35.12 | thedead1440 | agreed |
| 12:35.53 | thedead1440 | oops wrong channel :S |
| 12:36.29 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're giving a leg to backup everything, but we need input to know what "everything" means! |
| 12:38.14 | sourav | yeah |
| 12:39.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | *IF* original maemo.org servers go down inadvertently and never come back, and the backups we created *for you* are missing fundamental stuff, don't blame council or the volunteers that do those backups |
| 12:41.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a list of all we backup'ed so far, on http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/ (not on *.maemo.org, for obvious reasons). Pretty please check this list for completeness!!!! |
| 12:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | if something is not in there, expect it to vanish eventually |
| 12:42.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that this actually was the plan, but we need to be prepared for times when s**** hits the fan |
| 12:45.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a thread on tmo (expected to stay up and running til 20th of January) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88031 PLEASE add your findings and comments there! |
| 12:46.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | no comments like "you rock/you suck" and similar please, but actual info about stuff we missed to backup |
| 12:47.33 | kerio | ~pkg |
| 12:47.34 | infobot | it has been said that pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 12:48.09 | kerio | hm, wtf is kernel-maemo? |
| 12:48.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, the kernel? |
| 12:48.34 | kerio | no, that's kernel |
| 12:48.42 | kerio | kernel-maemo is in extras |
| 12:48.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh |
| 12:48.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 12:49.00 | kerio | (and it's older than dirt) |
| 12:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 12:49.21 | kerio | and by older than dirt i mean a year old |
| 12:49.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe some smartass ported maemo4 diablo kernel to extras repo? ;-P |
| 12:50.06 | kerio | maybe it's the kernel-power before kernel-power was kernel-power |
| 12:50.12 | kerio | it's got 22 versions |
| 12:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be |
| 12:50.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's maintainer? |
| 12:50.43 | kerio | tanner |
| 12:50.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | KP |
| 12:50.51 | kerio | yep, it's KP |
| 12:50.55 | kerio | but old |
| 12:51.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah I recall now |
| 12:51.11 | kerio | the extras repo need a serious cleanup |
| 12:51.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | got stuck on builder, so he renamed the pkg |
| 12:51.21 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon (~freemango@130-204-50-168.2074221835.ddns.cablebg.net) |
| 12:52.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever removed that old kernel pkg, and tbh I dunno if we should |
| 12:55.21 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, I suggest keeping only the newest version of the package per repo |
| 12:55.39 | Hurrian | for older stuff, you could always pull the source |
| 12:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the newest version of that particular pkg |
| 12:56.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pondering if there are issues when removing it, since ^^^(see above) pkg got renamed |
| 12:57.03 | Hurrian | meh, you'll just have to rebuild the apt lists then |
| 12:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's generally a poor idea to rename pkgs |
| 12:57.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | but if you do, you need to ponder possible issues with removing the old obsolete pkg |
| 12:57.46 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, let's just break things now so they're fixed in the future. The backup servers aren't live, so break things all you want. |
| 12:58.30 | Hurrian | Oh, by the way, is every single Harmattan PR LEGACY backed up? |
| 12:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | first up, *I* can't do anything about it, generally and particularly not now |
| 12:58.41 | Hurrian | that would be a massive waste of space, though |
| 12:59.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah, it was a massive waste of space ;-D |
| 12:59.35 | Hurrian | Damnit Nokia, just resign PR 001 as PR 999 and git 'er done already |
| 12:59.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | we only backed up the most recent versions, since downgrading not allowed on HARM anyway |
| 13:00.03 | Hurrian | Downgrading? Feh! Even cross grading to lower PR LEGACY is barred |
| 13:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 13:00.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, that shit ate 750GB of our storage on backup server |
| 13:01.01 | Hurrian | ugh. has exploring delta patches to LEGACY 001 been explored? |
| 13:01.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | with old versions it would've been >2TB |
| 13:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 13:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | compression factor ~0.6 |
| 13:01.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 13:01.42 | Hurrian | 750GB, geez. Just for a <10MB change in a single 2GB file. |
| 13:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 13:02.26 | Hurrian | People who didn't flash to 001 will be railed pretty hard when they need to reflash and /don't/ have their firmware file |
| 13:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, we got all the newest FW images |
| 13:04.42 | Hurrian | we gotta cut the crap on that though |
| 13:04.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | so everybody can upgrade. If you wanna keep your obsolete version, you should keep the needed image to reflash though |
| 13:05.12 | Hurrian | feels like a waste keeping 750GB of the same thing. |
| 13:05.49 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, how about keeping only 001, 005, and the highest non-chinese firmware, and one chinese firmware for those unlucky enough to flash that crap? |
| 13:06.50 | *** join/#maemo drath_n900 (~user@2001:0:53aa:64c:c10:134e:9230:c153) |
| 13:07.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: instead of removing, move to extras-obsolete |
| 13:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: this idea has a certain appeal, but also some downsides |
| 13:08.34 | kerio | or even just keep the .debs around for storage purposes |
| 13:08.44 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:09.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: we'll deal with that *later* |
| 13:09.11 | kerio | k |
| 13:09.29 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~quassel@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 13:09.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now that's so much way down on my todo, i can't even see it with a telescope |
| 13:09.55 | Hurrian | oh, I was going to suggest unifying all the Extras-* into one single Extras, but some users say that some Devel packages are broken. |
| 13:09.57 | *** join/#maemo dublon (jahim_ibra@46.37.75.127) |
| 13:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | no changes on infra setup right now. We do migration and backup, and we got not a second to spare for any changes |
| 13:11.12 | Hurrian | ah. |
| 13:11.33 | Hurrian | Well, in the months after Maemo.org changes hands, as I understand it, the fat-trimming starts, right? |
| 13:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | the migration nightmare is already more than I could digest on a extended period of time |
| 13:12.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | right |
| 13:12.23 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@212.200.198.171) |
| 13:12.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | this will be spring the closest though |
| 13:13.26 | jonwil | so exactly which pieces of infrastructure are being migrated and which (if any) are going to disappear? |
| 13:13.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | all. none (so the plan) |
| 13:14.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | if only since we got no time to decide what's dispensable |
| 13:14.41 | jonwil | so the full contents of http://repository.maemo.org/ will be migrated? |
| 13:14.45 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:14.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 13:14.53 | jonwil | ok :) |
| 13:15.09 | kerio | Hurrian: to be fair, "unifying" the extras- repos means deleting everything except extras-devel |
| 13:15.36 | Hurrian | kerio, pretty much, yeah |
| 13:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now FUNDING is our main problem |
| 13:16.31 | jonwil | If I wasn't between jobs and low on cash myself, I would donate to the cause somehow... |
| 13:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | not for the hosting (though colocation as designed by Nokia and donated as a gift to HF board will not exactly be cheap) but for professional adminsitration aka a fulltime sysop |
| 13:17.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so far Nokia paid Nemein for that |
| 13:18.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | would any of you be willing to do a fulltime admin job for maybe 500EUR/month? |
| 13:18.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | just asking |
| 13:19.06 | kerio | would, but probably isn't capable of and has no qualifications and no experience |
| 13:19.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok ok, maybe 50% part time |
| 13:19.45 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:19.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | though not during actual migration chaos, which will stay for at least 2 more months |
| 13:20.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, what kerio said: professional grade server admin qualification mandatory |
| 13:21.07 | jonwil | I dont have the right qualifications either |
| 13:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | board got 2kbuks of donations, which could suffice til end of this month |
| 13:21.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | bucks* |
| 13:21.43 | jonwil | that and I am not in the right part of the world anyway :) |
| 13:22.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | part of the world is irrelevant |
| 13:22.03 | jonwil | ok |
| 13:22.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | but qualification is |
| 13:22.38 | kerio | huh, the openpandora is pretty much a n900 |
| 13:22.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'd take responsibility to not mess up an infra that several thousand users rely on |
| 13:22.58 | jonwil | only qualification I have is a computer science degree on the wall |
| 13:23.01 | kerio | but with dual analogs |
| 13:23.13 | jonwil | which these days doesn't seem to mean much to most employers :( |
| 13:24.16 | Skry | one unemployed sysadmin here too with all kinds of certificates that don't mean shit to anyone anymore |
| 13:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: you're sysadmin? |
| 13:24.52 | Hurrian | Skry: you're unemployed? |
| 13:25.01 | Skry | yeah x2 |
| 13:25.08 | joga | employed sysadmin with no certificates whatsoever |
| 13:25.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | please send a mail to council@maemo.org |
| 13:25.22 | Skry | though I've been doing something completely different for quite alot of years now |
| 13:26.19 | kerio | well, system administration is like cycling |
| 13:26.36 | jonwil | My mission right now is to continue to do whatever I can to make the N900 a better mobile device |
| 13:26.43 | kerio | eventually you end up using drugs |
| 13:26.44 | jonwil | and to continue with what reverse engineering and work I am able to do |
| 13:27.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | offering sysop service on a professional level, your "CV"/qualifications and amount of time you could dedicate to "keeping server kernel up to date" and the wages you ask for that (we won't probably accept volunteers for free, since responsibility is lower without any payment) |
| 13:27.42 | jonwil | Once I can get in touch, I will work with Pali to get the local changes to the CBSMS widget into the CSSU tree |
| 13:27.45 | *** part/#maemo sourav (~user@1.38.26.124) |
| 13:28.02 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (etrunko@nat/intel/x-isencvjzjjtzrcli) |
| 13:28.03 | jonwil | i.e. work with him to find code that displays correct output for me but does not break for others |
| 13:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: please discuss it on #maemo-ssu |
| 13:28.30 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 13:29.11 | jonwil | well Pali did all the changes in question so once he pops his head in there I can discuss it :) |
| 13:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that it's off topic here, but there are some guys that are only in that other chan |
| 13:29.40 | jonwil | nothing really to discuss as such until Pali shows up :) |
| 13:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | also odds are those guys over there know about pali's ETA |
| 13:30.04 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: it's more like "keeping webserver up to date, php not crashing/hogging 100% CPU, and making sure that autobuilder doesn't choke on packages" |
| 13:30.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: for that we even hope to find "sub-sysops" resp service maintainers that have no root access but do specialized tasks |
| 13:31.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | volunteers |
| 13:31.40 | jonwil | So is this all running on a LAMP stack? or something else? |
| 13:31.58 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, so main sysadmin does the bare metal, and sub-admins do the individual services (downloads,repo,talk,wiki)? |
| 13:32.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, that's a set of 2 or 3 dedicated servers running like 12 VMs |
| 13:32.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: that's the idea |
| 13:32.38 | Hurrian | whoa, whoa, whoa, three servers? 12 VMs? |
| 13:32.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup :-) |
| 13:33.01 | kerio | ...why? |
| 13:33.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what Nokia donates to board |
| 13:33.37 | kerio | cool, let's sell those and buy a VPS |
| 13:33.43 | Hurrian | kerio, no! |
| 13:33.44 | kerio | :D |
| 13:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | now you maybe understand why we need a professional sysop |
| 13:33.55 | Hurrian | It's better to run our own hardware. |
| 13:34.08 | Skry | I'm not sure if I want to take responsibility of this magnitude, especially when I'm basically in a situation where I cant accept any payment since government is going to grab it anyways, I could however volunteer on some minor admin stuff at some point. |
| 13:34.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty welcome |
| 13:34.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | send a mail, please |
| 13:34.58 | Skry | I'll do that |
| 13:35.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could become sysop of one of the VM for example |
| 13:35.14 | Hurrian | hmm, I guess a single dual LGA 2011 machine with maxed RAM, and shittonnes of SATA cards, and a large bay of drives would better serve M.O's needs |
| 13:35.30 | *** join/#maemo chenca (chenca@nat/indt/x-wmuzmrujguavhosa) |
| 13:35.31 | Hurrian | >1 physical machine is pretty inconvenient |
| 13:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably |
| 13:35.57 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 13:35.59 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, downside is, a balls-out machine like that would easily blow 3000 USD |
| 13:36.14 | Hurrian | half of which are for the mainboard and CPUs alone |
| 13:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia donating hw |
| 13:36.25 | kerio | afaik the servers from nokia are pretty beefy |
| 13:36.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 13:37.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.fujitsu.com/fi/products/computing/servers/primergy/rack/rx300/ |
| 13:37.41 | Hurrian | hmm, so Nokia literally pulled the machines from Nemein and shipped them off to wherever HF will colo them? |
| 13:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | friggin overkill if you ask me, but... |
| 13:39.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: nope, Nokia paid Nemein to buy those rx300 and install them somewhere colo, then hand all the shite to HF |
| 13:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | colo alone will probably kill us |
| 13:40.11 | Hurrian | whoa, Nokia bought Sandy Bridge EP servers? |
| 13:40.25 | Hurrian | those are a lot newer than I thought the Maemo.org servers ran on. |
| 13:40.52 | Hurrian | Did they move them to new servers or something? IIRC Maemo.org ran on Core 2 Quad-generation Xeons sometime back |
| 13:40.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's been the suggestion for HW to buy, on some "internal" paper by Nemein/Nokia/whomever |
| 13:41.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: those are brand new irons |
| 13:41.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even installed yet |
| 13:42.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | sidenote: half of what I post here is unconfirmed hearsay, I'm not much more in any information-loop than any of you |
| 13:42.36 | Hurrian | That's nice. With all the beef behind that thing, one server really is enough. |
| 13:42.49 | Hurrian | ah. |
| 13:43.01 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 13:43.09 | kerio | Hurrian: well, we're not complaining about having more servers ofc |
| 13:43.19 | Hurrian | Well, hopefully Nokia drops us a new server, and doesn't simply pull the running servers off the rack at Nemein. |
| 13:43.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes we are, colo will kill us |
| 13:43.28 | kerio | D: |
| 13:44.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | cheap colo is like 200 bucks per month for a 1HE 500W rack |
| 13:44.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm not all that sure Nemein found the cheapest colo they could get on this planet either |
| 13:45.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and once some hw emits blue magic smoke on one of those irons, we're seriously doomed |
| 13:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | on-site hands is like 30 bucks for 15 minutes |
| 13:46.32 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: that's why you get a good colo location |
| 13:46.50 | Hurrian | oh, that's driving distance for some admin or longtime maemo.org member |
| 13:47.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAH! |
| 13:47.37 | Hurrian | I've had horrible things happen with colos that had shit utilities, e.g. cooling |
| 13:47.51 | Hurrian | it's much more reassuring to be able to see the server in the first place |
| 13:47.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, getting a dedicated server from a hoster is waaaay cjeaper and more manageable than any colo |
| 13:48.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | this HW donation by Nokia been a poisoned gift, in my book |
| 13:48.46 | kerio | sell servers, buy hookers^H^H^H^H^Hsting |
| 13:49.08 | thedead1440 | exactly why not just sell and buy hosting? saves a great deal of trouble+costs |
| 13:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: actually an option I ponder |
| 13:49.27 | kerio | did nokia buy the servers already? |
| 13:49.51 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, dedis get logarithmically expensive once you're above Core i5+16GB RAM-class servers |
| 13:50.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | but Nokia paid Nemein to migrate shite to colo heavy duty Iron they paid for, and then donate that to HF. Only after that we can ponder our options |
| 13:50.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: Nemein did |
| 13:50.47 | thedead1440 | sell the servers back to Nemein and transfer things into a hoster |
| 13:51.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: Nokia isn't doing such stuff, they hire service to get it done |
| 13:51.08 | kerio | hm |
| 13:51.26 | thedead1440 | i mean if they are willing to do so then it won't take more than a day or two to migrate everything over |
| 13:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: that's the most favorite plan in parts of Board and Council right now |
| 13:52.29 | thedead1440 | in parts? that means numerous discussions resulting in 0 results as usual? |
| 13:52.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, yup |
| 13:52.53 | thedead1440 | :S |
| 13:53.07 | thedead1440 | let me guess you must be the only one in favour of that? |
| 13:53.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, since we got no quotations on anything, not even colo costs yet, we're just handwaving |
| 13:53.15 | *** join/#maemo cityLights (~nivw@bzq-218-29-26.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 13:53.32 | thedead1440 | why no quotes on colo yet? |
| 13:53.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 13:54.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm talking to Bergie since ~3h ago, I hope things start to move there as well |
| 13:54.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Boerd is approaching things the business stale |
| 13:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | style* |
| 13:55.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes that doesn't help to speed up communications |
| 13:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's my take on that |
| 13:55.43 | thedead1440 | well it seems they really think they are *replacing* Nokia for maemo.org in all ways |
| 13:56.12 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, if the colo costs really are crushingly huge, then I guess Maemo.org can be split across multiple midrange VPSes |
| 13:56.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I started talking to co-hackers in private, on a low-official non-bureaucracy level |
| 13:57.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: sure |
| 13:57.09 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: actually 2 servers is more than enough for all maemo.org contents including TMO; the costs are cheaper than a VPS when storage is taken into account |
| 13:57.50 | Hurrian | thedead1440, ah, right, I forgot how huge Maemo.org really was |
| 13:58.18 | Hurrian | heck, TMO's DB is apparently 1TB, according to Reggie |
| 13:58.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm already paying a 'small' dedicated server where we set up a backup-hot-standby system to kick in whan plan A fails |
| 13:58.20 | thedead1440 | Hetzener's 50Eur plan for a dedicated server X2 is all thats ever needed |
| 13:58.30 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: no its 12GB not 1TB |
| 13:58.39 | Hurrian | oh |
| 13:59.12 | thedead1440 | well i saw that on the ML |
| 13:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are contradicting infos |
| 13:59.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | regarding tmo |
| 13:59.56 | thedead1440 | you mean on the size? |
| 14:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for one would rather believe the 12GB figure |
| 14:00.07 | thedead1440 | i saw that 12GB thing directly from Reggie on ML |
| 14:00.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, on a later post though he uttered something different iirc |
| 14:00.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe that's been the total size of storage on his server then |
| 14:00.52 | thedead1440 | iirc he said later on ~400GB which was for traffic |
| 14:01.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 14:01.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and ~10k mails per week |
| 14:01.31 | thedead1440 | which in all honesty are very small |
| 14:01.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | mail setup will be a PITA |
| 14:01.34 | Hurrian | man, TMO really needs to be condensed, unfortunately it could take man-decades to do so |
| 14:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: that's the point |
| 14:02.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now hosting isn't our problem, manpower is |
| 14:02.48 | Hurrian | for the transition and all? |
| 14:02.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia afaik paying for January&February hosting |
| 14:03.00 | thedead1440 | so its extended again? |
| 14:03.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, for migration and consolidation and all that stuff |
| 14:03.35 | thedead1440 | so what exactly actually was supposed to go offline on 31/12? |
| 14:03.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: nope, they seem to pay for the *new* infra, but only for 2 months |
| 14:03.59 | thedead1440 | oh |
| 14:04.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the old infra was supposed to be already down |
| 14:04.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | servers with maemo and other Nokia proprietary stuff all mixed up on them |
| 14:04.37 | thedead1440 | ah ic |
| 14:05.23 | *** join/#maemo MikaT (~mtapoja@projects.sse.fi) |
| 14:05.30 | Hurrian | hmm, over the next few months there really needs to be a community effort to document all the shit, throw it on the wiki, categorize it properly, then archive the current TMO |
| 14:05.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein right now migrating everything to vservers they provide, to buy them time to finish the new rx300 servers and then migrate again the vservers to those |
| 14:06.09 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 14:07.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | then hand over the rx300 irons to HF, and then we might migrate a third time :-o |
| 14:07.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | headdesks |
| 14:08.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Anyway RX300 irons are paid for hw and for 2 months hosting, and Nokia pays the migration effort until handover to HF |
| 14:09.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there's preety much nuttin we can do to change any detail of that process until RX300 get handed over to HF |
| 14:09.44 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-142-112-33.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I managed to negotiate with Nemein for a vserver to host TMO on it, that will live on same location as the rest of *.m.o infra, wherever that is right now and in the future |
| 14:10.40 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~etrunko@134.134.137.75) |
| 14:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least I think I did achieve to negotiate that - not entirely sure |
| 14:12.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | tmo is hosted by Reggie on his own server and basically unrelated to rest of *.m.o infra so far. Reggie will tear down the tmo server on 2013-01-20 |
| 14:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | efforts to migrate tmo are ongoing |
| 14:15.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile I try to figure how we might manage to manage |
| 14:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I feel somebody needs to care about that, and HF appointed me for your humble maemo.org infra administration-coordinator |
| 14:17.13 | RST38h | Doc: Now you can ban people from maemo.org! |
| 14:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm however no real sysop, lacking qualification |
| 14:17.23 | RST38h | Doc: And you can ban whole domains too! |
| 14:17.33 | FIQ|n900 | lol |
| 14:17.54 | FIQ|n900 | with great power comes great responsibility |
| 14:18.19 | RST38h | with great power comes fun and enjoyment of the macabre |
| 14:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: indeed that's my primary duty: creating accounts for sysops and maintainers |
| 14:19.10 | RST38h | Doc: Yes, creating reliable network of minions,fighting for your benevolent attention |
| 14:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | think of me as the guy carring THE suitcase next to US president |
| 14:19.32 | RST38h | think of me as THE suitcase! |
| 14:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | where's your red button? |
| 14:20.02 | RST38h | you don't wanna know, no, really |
| 14:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-P |
| 14:20.32 | RST38h | just watched DrWho Christmas special |
| 14:21.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | just notced it's already almost sunset, and no shopping done yet |
| 14:21.29 | RST38h | Moffat is being self-ironic. The movie literally drawns in tears, and "winter is coming" is mentioned at least twice |
| 14:21.46 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: I think "benevolent operator for life" sounds better |
| 14:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | BOFL? |
| 14:22.15 | kerio | kinda like ROFL |
| 14:22.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lord Keyholder |
| 14:23.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I'm not really competent to do any operator job |
| 14:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm competent to hand out keys and scrutinize what they're used for |
| 14:24.22 | *** join/#maemo sourav (01261d76@gateway/web/freenode/ip.1.38.29.118) |
| 14:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to kick asses if somebody goes haywire |
| 14:24.46 | Hurrian | sounds about right |
| 14:25.42 | Hurrian | there's lots of qualified MO members who can run one simple task, and check on it every hour or so |
| 14:26.10 | Hurrian | come to think of it we need a watchdog of sorts for each individual task |
| 14:26.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's basically the idea about getting maintainer volunteers |
| 14:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe even sub-sysops |
| 14:26.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | not entirely clear on the latter |
| 14:27.21 | Hurrian | so basically, much like what Reggie does for tmo, and [Cross] Fade for the builder |
| 14:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | we already apponted chem|st for maintainer of tmo |
| 14:27.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 14:28.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st accepted to do low-effort sub-sysop tasks like keeping an eye on CPU load and syslog as well |
| 14:29.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | with such an arrangement we might not need sub-sysops, since the heavy lifting (like running system updates etc) might get done by paid main sysop then, also for the VM like tmo |
| 14:30.28 | Hurrian | hmm, we need to part out some more stuff, such as maintenance of the front page (Midgard, was it?), garage, wiki and all the small forgotten pages |
| 14:31.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, we need a lot of volunteers for that |
| 14:31.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | for maintenance (== user account), not for sysop on that particular VM (==root account on that VM) |
| 14:32.26 | Hurrian | that could be handled easily enough with user groups |
| 14:33.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, I'm aware of the technical details - at least as much as needed to figure how our sysop will set it up |
| 14:34.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now and for purpose of public discussion it's sufficient to state that those positions are NOT sysop positions but maintainer positions |
| 14:34.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we need lots of maintainers |
| 14:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I *really* don't see why this friggin document wasn't posted to the public, so I'll do that now |
| 14:36.45 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm (c) Ferenc Szekely, Niels Breet 2012-05-25 |
| 14:37.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I first have to ask for permission |
| 14:37.03 | *** join/#maemo sourav (01261d76@gateway/web/freenode/ip.1.38.29.118) |
| 14:37.39 | RST38h | On with the pitchfors! (c) maemo.org userbase 2007-2012 |
| 14:37.43 | RST38h | pitchforks |
| 14:38.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh did I say 12 VM? |
| 14:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | 18 ;-D |
| 14:38.49 | *** join/#maemo MrOpposite (~MrOpposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) |
| 14:39.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.org maemo.org apps.formeego.org wiki.maemo.org bugs.maemo.org stage.maemo.org -- static.maemo.org lists.maemo.org maintenance.maemo.org scratchbox.org dns.maemo.org repository.maemo.org test.maemo.org vcs.maemo.org garage.maemo.org drop.maemo.org db.maemo.org (DMZ only) |
| 14:40.10 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, should maintainer positions be open, where do I shoot a mail? |
| 14:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | council@maemo.org |
| 14:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | see ^^^ for possible domains (rough figure) |
| 14:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | each a VM, which probably needs a maintainer |
| 14:41.54 | kerio | how will we call the three servers? |
| 14:41.57 | kerio | we need funny names |
| 14:41.58 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, how about tablets-dev? |
| 14:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even listed in there |
| 14:42.25 | kerio | tablets-dev is .nokia.com isn't it |
| 14:42.31 | kerio | yep |
| 14:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC on my side |
| 14:42.46 | Hurrian | yeah, it's Nokia, but the downloads should be moved to a maemo.org domain |
| 14:42.52 | Hurrian | assuming we get the redistrib rights |
| 14:42.54 | Hurrian | (do we?) |
| 14:43.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically Nokia isn't supposed to take that domain/service down, no? |
| 14:43.07 | thedead1440 | theres a lot of things to move into .maemo.org but no idea on where we stand on that |
| 14:43.33 | thedead1440 | the thread is there; the list of things is there but whether that list has been passed onto Nokia as stated earlier is unknown |
| 14:43.33 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, that needs to be confirmed |
| 14:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got backups just in case - though we don't know about their completeness |
| 14:43.47 | Hurrian | if they tear down everything that isn't Lumia, we're boned |
| 14:44.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ |
| 14:44.18 | Hurrian | we need to ask Nokia for explicit permission to host the Maemo and Harmattan firmware files |
| 14:45.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to ask Nokia about WTF they goona do at large with all that stuff |
| 14:45.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas no contacts to Nokia that I knew of |
| 14:45.50 | Hurrian | should that get sorted out though, I'd be glad to watch over the firmware files and SDK rootstraps |
| 14:45.53 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: that was the explicit purpose of that thread which ivgalvez had asked for |
| 14:46.50 | thedead1440 | he had said Board needs a list of whatever is not on .maemo.org to be drawn up so that the Board can ask for re-distribution rights... Not heard anything about whether the list has been submitted etc... |
| 14:46.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: sorry I'm lost in white noise with all the mails and posts on tmo. I'm simply not catching up |
| 14:47.29 | thedead1440 | the thread where you posted whatever is backed up was meant to be the thread where a list is drawn up for content not on maemo.org |
| 14:47.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 14:48.12 | thedead1440 | if you see the list has been drawn up but since quite sometime nobody has mentioned if something else too is not on maemo.org and is missing in that list |
| 14:48.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if board/ivgalvez is following up on that thread, or if anybody noted the tablets-dev stuff on it |
| 14:48.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's simply not on top of my todo list right now |
| 14:48.42 | thedead1440 | tablets-dev was covered in that list since day 0 |
| 14:48.50 | thedead1440 | i wouldn't miss that :p |
| 14:48.55 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:49.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | it sounds like ivgalvez took that topic |
| 14:49.34 | thedead1440 | ivgalvez was following that thread quite closely but what has happened since ~10 days is anybody's guess... |
| 14:49.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't control the work of everybody else in council and board |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#maemo landho (~dora@123-2-148-71.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 14:50.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I started on the premise I got 2h per WEEK to dedicate to that councilor position |
| 14:50.44 | thedead1440 | you can't control but maybe you can ask the Board if re-distribution for the contents on that list have been requested and if yes whats the status |
| 14:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | board@maemo.org CC community ML |
| 14:51.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | "on behalf of Joerg(councilor)" if you like |
| 14:51.55 | thedead1440 | ok |
| 14:51.56 | r00t|home | DocScrutinizer05: if you could CONTROL the work of everybody else in council, it'd be a dictatorship :D |
| 14:52.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 14:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ bbl |
| 14:53.27 | jonwil | from where I sit, I see 4 things myself that would raise issues with regards to redistribution, the first is the firmware files (i.e. the stuff on tablets-dev.nokia.com that you can only get if you enter your device IMEI), the second is the development stuff on tablets-dev.nokia.org (VMs, flasher tools, SDK installers etc), the third is the nokia-binaries stuff in the SDK repos and the... |
| 14:53.29 | jonwil | ...fourth is the full set of device package files in the device SSU repository (currently hosted at downloads.maemo.nokia.com if I am reading the apt source lists correctly) |
| 14:55.05 | *** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@wsip-98-190-217-157.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 14:56.13 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: email sent... |
| 14:56.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks, please doublecheck if we got the appropriate backups anyway |
| 14:56.52 | thedead1440 | that list is covered |
| 14:56.58 | thedead1440 | double and triple checked :D |
| 14:57.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool :-D |
| 14:57.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you da man! |
| 14:57.19 | thedead1440 | brkn ;) |
| 14:57.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) he too |
| 14:57.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | cya l8r friend |
| 14:58.07 | thedead1440 | see ya |
| 14:59.32 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:06.25 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@78-69-146-252-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:11.11 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@192.94.92.14) |
| 15:15.27 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:18.12 | *** join/#maemo peetah (~peetah@cha92-9-82-236-202-86.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:26.04 | *** join/#maemo Chiku|dc (~Chiku01@unaffiliated/chiku) |
| 15:31.13 | kerio | didn't nokia give permission to redistribute stuff like that, as long as it's to use in N900s only? |
| 15:32.52 | *** join/#maemo luf (~luf@ip-89-102-208-114.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 15:36.57 | *** join/#maemo brkn (~brkn@HSI-KBW-134-3-171-252.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 15:40.09 | *** join/#maemo wirr (~wirr@xdsl-188-155-55-161.adslplus.ch) |
| 15:42.06 | wirr | hi there... can anyone help me with some strange sdhc issues? i'm using a new sandisk ultra 32gb class 10 sd card on power51. as soon as the disk uses several partition the kernel throws -110 transmission errors to dmesg. as well it's impossible to boot nemo form u-boot (same error). writing to a single 32gb fat32 partition seems to work flawlessly... |
| 15:43.05 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~teotwaki@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 15:43.47 | *** join/#maemo johnsu01 (user@fsf/staff/johnsu01) |
| 15:44.27 | *** part/#maemo brkn (~brkn@HSI-KBW-134-3-171-252.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:02.14 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:02.37 | *** join/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 16:03.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: try to write a *huge* file to that card. It's a common hw failure pattern for such errors to appear only after several 100MB to maybe even GB of storage used up |
| 16:05.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I once had a 16GB that failed with write error on a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/card bs=100k, after some 50..500MB transferred |
| 16:07.36 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:10.23 | wirr | DocScrutinizer05: that's what I'm trying right now... exported card using backupmenu and write 32gb of random data to it. it's been running for 40 minutes or so without any problems so far... |
| 16:12.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | random data is one good test pattern, writing strictly sequential like dd does is another different good one |
| 16:13.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | also on-board might yield higher datarate than via mass storage |
| 16:15.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | the controller might be over-optimized for FAT fs |
| 16:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course sandisk never thought you'd create several partitions on that card |
| 16:17.13 | *** join/#maemo peetah (~peetah@cha92-9-82-236-202-86.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:17.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g they might have a dedicated RAM buffer for the FAT (the file allocation table), plus a separate storage area on flash |
| 16:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | anything not meeting the usage pattern created by fat32 fs might fail to speed optimizations not kicking in |
| 16:20.32 | wirr | hmm... this would mean there is one dedicated area for one FAT, and slower speeds for any other fs? still this shouldn't produce transmission errors for partitions != FAT or with their tables not in the first few sectors, am I wrong? |
| 16:21.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: usually sandisk is better than that |
| 16:22.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc, just sharing some general thoughts. Only sandisk knows what's going on inside their card and how some hw defect might show up |
| 16:23.21 | wirr | mhm... had no probs on card reader, but the same pattern on two different n900s |
| 16:24.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | swap the card, get another one |
| 16:27.53 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: HF should fund the R&D for a ram-based uSD |
| 16:28.14 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c155-11.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:31.07 | *** join/#maemo odin_ (~Odin@2a01:348:261:32:f4bb:63d2:58c3:ee87) |
| 16:34.58 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 16:35.52 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (~philip@codeminded.be) |
| 16:53.53 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 16:54.56 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:55.55 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.240.147) |
| 16:58.55 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 17:06.11 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 17:21.08 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 17:22.09 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.175) |
| 17:26.39 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 17:27.02 | *** join/#maemo qwazix_ (~qwazix@Maemo/community/council/qwazix) |
| 17:27.23 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@212.255.19.30) |
| 17:34.45 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 17:35.33 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:39.41 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e258:1a01:a1d9:8c59:abec:7b8e) |
| 17:43.15 | *** part/#maemo qwazix (~Michael@lagrange.cloud-7.de) |
| 17:43.52 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 17:48.37 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@funtoo/user/ZogG) |
| 17:52.15 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (~philip@codeminded.be) |
| 18:02.02 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-140-038.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:15.04 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@ip-62-245-106-78.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 18:15.27 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 18:15.44 | tadzik | so, Ubuntu is now launching their mobile OS. Wonder if the apps will be easy to port to maemo |
| 18:18.11 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 18:32.11 | *** join/#maemo timeless (uid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 18:34.57 | *** join/#maemo mindsofpsi (~ircchatte@2002:186c:1b1d:e472:1636:5ff:feab:fcf3) |
| 18:37.14 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:43.55 | *** join/#maemo wirr (~wirr@xdsl-188-155-55-161.adslplus.ch) |
| 18:45.14 | ShadowJK | my N900 broke! the keylock slider, the little notch thingy on it has vanished, it's totally flush with the case now :o |
| 18:46.12 | kerio | wat |
| 18:46.16 | kerio | oh |
| 18:47.43 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-223-80.as13285.net) |
| 19:01.33 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-5-56-244-117.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:02.58 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@212-183-124-96.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:05.29 | tadzik | urgh. This is getting bad. Every time I have a phone call (call, receive, whatever), the screen goes black 90% of the time. I use the hardware screen unlocker sometimes, but then it still sometimes goes black again after half a second or so |
| 19:05.55 | tadzik | is there, by any chance a way to tell it "under no circumstances go black whilst a call is being made?" |
| 19:06.06 | kerio | it would be a tklock thing i think |
| 19:06.18 | kerio | i also get that sometimes, but i assumed it was fmg's fault |
| 19:06.20 | kerio | :3 |
| 19:06.44 | tadzik | I got this before the new tklock too, and it was just as bad then, I'm afraid :) |
| 19:06.52 | *** join/#maemo mindsofpsi (~ircchatte@2002:186c:1b1d:e472:1636:5ff:feab:fcf3) |
| 19:07.10 | tadzik | a little bit as if the proximity sensor (or what was its name) is getting confused |
| 19:11.29 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:15.08 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 19:17.20 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 19:24.09 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc3-basf10-2-0-cust617.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:34.46 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@212-183-124-96.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:35.27 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440_ (~thedead14@203.117.37.53) |
| 19:37.16 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440_ (~thedead14@203.117.37.53) |
| 19:39.54 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-5-56-244-117.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:50.10 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 19:51.56 | *** join/#maemo unclouded (~neil@2001:4428:200:80fc:4062:5afb:de0d:382f) |
| 20:01.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.orginfrastructureforHildonFoundation.pdf |
| 20:01.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops |
| 20:03.09 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.173.150) |
| 20:05.04 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:05.59 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 20:21.48 | ShadowJK | while true; do cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ; sleep 1 ; done |
| 20:25.43 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192_ (~andrew@131.191.117.141) |
| 20:25.43 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192_ (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
| 20:28.52 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.187.19) |
| 20:29.09 | *** join/#maemo int_ua (~int_ua@ip-602f.proline.net.ua) |
| 20:29.22 | *** join/#maemo jester` (~jester`@ks384654.kimsufi.com) |
| 20:35.20 | tadzik | it says "closed" all the time |
| 20:35.31 | tadzik | and, uh, "open" from time to time too |
| 20:36.53 | unclouded | that's cool. mine only says "closed" when my hand gets within about 1cm |
| 20:38.32 | *** join/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 20:39.49 | tadzik | it seems to get better sometimes when I squeeze the display near the sensor |
| 20:40.36 | Ikarus | anyone know if you can force a N900 to detect a sd card |
| 20:40.36 | tadzik | perhaps it has moved too far from the glass, and it thinks it my ear? |
| 20:41.36 | Ikarus | the magnet for back open/close detection is gone on this back and I can't replace it easily |
| 20:41.48 | tadzik | yeah, it gets definitely better after a "squeeze" |
| 20:42.00 | tadzik | (most of the time) |
| 20:43.43 | ShadowJK | screen protector covering it? |
| 20:43.56 | *** join/#maemo halXI (~halXI@2a01:e35:1386:4120:70b7:2af3:66f6:d27c) |
| 20:44.07 | tadzik | nah, screen protector is cut nicely around it |
| 20:44.19 | tadzik | it's right in the corner of it |
| 20:44.43 | tadzik | but well, this is the flex cable I have inserted there, when the factory one broke |
| 20:45.09 | tadzik | maybe that I let some dirt slip in, or such? |
| 20:45.32 | tadzik | iirc, proximity sensor is part of it |
| 20:47.37 | tadzik | I wonder if I can replace it with a static file saying "open" :D |
| 20:48.32 | tadzik | it should get back to normal after a reboot anywa |
| 20:54.11 | *** join/#maemo toxarisswe (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 20:55.03 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@131.191.117.141) |
| 20:55.03 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
| 20:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: I suspect dust or dirt |
| 20:58.39 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.178.198) |
| 20:59.05 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@a88-112-164-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:59.08 | tadzik | yay, disassembly again |
| 20:59.32 | tadzik | also: I know for some people usb port gets loose, is it also known to happen to audio jacks slots? |
| 21:00.03 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@002369d5e799.click-network.com) |
| 21:00.04 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
| 21:00.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | audio jack is spring loaded, it basically can't get loose |
| 21:00.39 | tadzik | well, it seems as if the jack plug is loose inside it |
| 21:01.17 | tadzik | I was wondering if it's a bad thing, but in the end it appears that it's the headphones which start to break near the jack plug. As always |
| 21:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then it has too much free gap to the bay in case where it sits in |
| 21:02.13 | *** join/#maemo guampa_ (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 21:02.17 | tadzik | I guess it's not a good business model for headphone manufacturers to make jack plugs that don't break every few months |
| 21:02.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | swapping for a new AV-receptacle is a 10$ 15 minutes operation at any nokia care point with own repair center |
| 21:13.23 | *** join/#maemo i_link_system (~i_data_no@5ad58ba6.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:14.29 | *** part/#maemo i_link_system (~i_data_no@5ad58ba6.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:20.11 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai_ (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 21:20.26 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai_ (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 21:21.39 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai_ (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 21:22.01 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 21:23.04 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.173) |
| 21:30.00 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 21:31.35 | kerio | ~seen pali |
| 21:31.44 | infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 5d 10h 11m 32s ago, saying: 'freemangordon, do you know state of portrait keyboard?'. |
| 21:31.45 | kerio | ~seen infobot |
| 21:31.46 | infobot | infobot is currently on #utos (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-doc (1d 19h 55m 49s) #botpark (1d 19h 55m 49s) ##t42 (1d 19h 55m 49s) #maemo (1d 19h 55m 49s) #fredlug (1d 19h 55m 49s) ##ols (1d 19h 55m 49s) #n9 (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-scf-dev (1d 19h 55m 49s) #flyspray (1d 19h 55m 49s) #asterisk-dev (1d 19h 55m 49s) #webos-internals (1d 19h 55m 49s) ... |
| 21:31.52 | kerio | heh |
| 21:31.53 | kerio | ~seen apt |
| 21:31.53 | infobot | apt is currently on #debian (5d 1h 28m 9s) ##icf (5d 1h 28m 9s) #elive (5d 1h 28m 9s) #htc-linux (5d 1h 28m 9s) #kde (5d 1h 28m 9s) #wowroster (5d 1h 28m 9s) #openmoko (5d 1h 28m 9s) #slug (5d 1h 28m 9s) #lugwv (5d 1h 28m 9s) #openmoko-cdevel (5d 1h 28m 9s) #debian-france (5d 1h 28m 9s) #debianppc (5d 1h 28m 9s) #linuxpakistan (5d 1h 28m 9s) ... |
| 21:32.06 | kerio | ~uptime |
| 21:32.17 | kerio | no snarky message when you look for her? |
| 21:35.42 | *** join/#maemo grummund (~user@unaffiliated/grummund) |
| 21:35.49 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:36.16 | *** join/#maemo i_link_system (~i_data_no@5ad58ba6.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:45.39 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 21:49.24 | *** join/#maemo lnxmen (~lnxmen@adpr179.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:49.57 | lnxmen | Hello, I have a problem with my N900 |
| 21:50.14 | Cor-Ai | what? |
| 21:51.07 | lnxmen | Three days ago, I snowboarded... Many times I fell down and my phone doesn't work |
| 21:51.31 | lnxmen | It was in pocket in the jacket |
| 21:51.38 | kerio | ... |
| 21:51.39 | kerio | why? |
| 21:52.08 | tadzik | is it safe to assume that "doesn't work" means "doesn't turn on at all"? |
| 21:52.28 | lnxmen | tadzik: yes |
| 21:52.40 | kerio | lnxmen: did the pocket get wet? |
| 21:52.44 | tadzik | is/was it wet? |
| 21:52.48 | tadzik | bah, beaten to it |
| 21:53.06 | lnxmen | No, pocket wasn't wet |
| 21:53.25 | kerio | you said you fell... did you fall *on it*? |
| 21:53.25 | lnxmen | anyway I keeped my phone in rice... |
| 21:53.40 | kerio | lnxmen: rice does jack shit to absorb humidity |
| 21:54.47 | lnxmen | kerio: *on it*.. it's difficult to say, pocket is above the heart |
| 21:55.19 | tadzik | were there any extreme temperatures? |
| 21:55.28 | lnxmen | so when I fall I think my elbows protect the phone... |
| 21:55.36 | kerio | you *hope* |
| 21:55.41 | ShadowJK | hm.. lens cover doesnt open fully anymore... and a spring belonging to kickstand fell out :) |
| 21:55.45 | lnxmen | tadzik: No, 1-3C |
| 21:56.04 | Aoyagi | When you fall on a snowboard, your elbows are in front of your or behind you keeping you from falling too hard. |
| 21:56.17 | tadzik | then they hurt like seven helss |
| 21:56.46 | Aoyagi | Aye. |
| 21:56.49 | kerio | infobot: #maemo snowboarding is a sport that kills your n900 |
| 21:56.49 | infobot | okay, kerio |
| 21:56.53 | kerio | ~snowboarding |
| 21:56.53 | infobot | [snowboarding] a sport that kills your n900 |
| 21:56.58 | kerio | alright |
| 21:57.21 | kerio | lnxmen: did you try a different battery? |
| 21:57.28 | lnxmen | No... |
| 21:57.31 | kerio | can you see any damage from the outside? |
| 21:57.34 | lnxmen | But I checked my battery |
| 21:57.40 | lnxmen | It was 2.7V |
| 21:57.52 | lnxmen | 2.8 * |
| 21:58.07 | kerio | ...so your battery is out of juice |
| 21:58.28 | kerio | EDV1 is around 3.2 |
| 21:58.33 | lnxmen | what |
| 21:58.51 | lnxmen | so I should check it with another battery? |
| 21:59.35 | kerio | yep |
| 21:59.47 | kerio | if you're sure about your measurement |
| 21:59.54 | lnxmen | kerio: N900 haven't any scratch |
| 22:00.10 | kerio | a bl-5j goes from 4.2V to 3.2V, pretty much |
| 22:00.16 | kerio | 100% to 6% |
| 22:00.20 | nox- | ~flatbatrecover |
| 22:00.21 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 22:00.23 | kerio | *kinda* |
| 22:01.46 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: correct? |
| 22:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, correct |
| 22:02.53 | lnxmen | I'll check the voltage one more time... |
| 22:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | flatbatrecover only works with genuine nokia fastcharger |
| 22:03.27 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: isn't 2.8 near the level where the cells get damaged? |
| 22:03.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2.7V is pretty much where protection circuit inside battery kicks in |
| 22:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: :nod: ^^^ |
| 22:04.10 | kerio | stupid protection circuits not allowing people to fuck up their batteries if they want :C |
| 22:04.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq |
| 22:04.32 | infobot | well, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers |
| 22:05.11 | lnxmen | hmm |
| 22:05.21 | lnxmen | Now Voltage is about 2.9 |
| 22:05.29 | lnxmen | I found other battery |
| 22:05.39 | lnxmen | which looks like bl-5j |
| 22:05.59 | lnxmen | and voltage is 3.7 |
| 22:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf |
| 22:06.29 | lnxmen | So I will try with other battery |
| 22:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | p.5 |
| 22:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | p.9 "CT-N3650HX-1" |
| 22:08.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | p.14 >> 2.300±0.058 V Over-discharge detection voltage << |
| 22:09.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course that's not a BL-5J |
| 22:09.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | the basic operation should be rather similar |
| 22:10.09 | lnxmen | I don't think so it's a battery fault |
| 22:10.16 | lnxmen | when I want to charge it |
| 22:10.45 | lnxmen | there is now orange? color |
| 22:10.53 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
| 22:10.54 | kerio | solid orange? |
| 22:10.55 | lnxmen | no* |
| 22:10.58 | kerio | oh :( |
| 22:10.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 22:10.59 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 22:11.05 | lnxmen | yes |
| 22:11.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia fatscharger! |
| 22:11.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | fast even |
| 22:11.33 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is the "1 minute" to discharge everything? because it will require a lot more than that if you have a working bupbat |
| 22:12.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, not really |
| 22:12.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's to reset from e.g overvoltage cutout |
| 22:12.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | or dunnowhat |
| 22:13.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: will only work with original Nokia fastcharger |
| 22:13.53 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@001c25e8eaf7.click-network.com) |
| 22:13.53 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
| 22:14.06 | kerio | and every standard musb charger with enough amps |
| 22:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a USB cable to PC, 3rd party chargers, or a broken charger, you don't see steady amber |
| 22:14.25 | lnxmen | I have original charger |
| 22:14.41 | kerio | soooooooo, basically the nokia fastcharger and very little else, yes |
| 22:15.17 | r00t|home | and definition of nokia fast-charger is what? D+/D- shorted and 1000mA? |
| 22:15.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, pretty much |
| 22:15.39 | kerio | 1.1A i think |
| 22:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1+A |
| 22:15.44 | kerio | or more, of course |
| 22:15.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter |
| 22:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 22:17.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess your battery is broken maybe |
| 22:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: ^^^ |
| 22:17.35 | kerio | how many amps at 5V can you reasonably get from a wall socket? |
| 22:17.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: UH?? |
| 22:18.12 | r00t|home | kerio: enough to MELT the phone into a puddle of metal and burned plastic? |
| 22:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know any wall socket with 5V |
| 22:18.30 | kerio | i meant with a transformer |
| 22:18.37 | r00t|home | see above |
| 22:18.40 | kerio | a reasonably-sized one |
| 22:18.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | that obviously depends on transformer |
| 22:18.49 | Belzebub | kerio: i bought goclever wall charger 5V 2A |
| 22:18.50 | lnxmen | DocScrutinizer05: ? |
| 22:19.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: hm? |
| 22:19.15 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:19.21 | r00t|home | kerio: then it depends on your definiton of "reasonable" |
| 22:19.26 | kerio | lnxmen: we're thinking broken battery |
| 22:19.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | lnxmen: I guess your battery is broken maybe |
| 22:19.40 | kerio | or at best, a really depleted battery |
| 22:20.03 | lnxmen | Hmm why? |
| 22:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | a broken battery might cause steady amber on flatbatrecover to never show up |
| 22:20.39 | lnxmen | I have another battery, I checked with it - and it also doesn't work |
| 22:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | since bq24150 tries to charge, detects battery defect, and stops. takes ~1ms |
| 22:20.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | or 20 |
| 22:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno |
| 22:21.10 | kerio | lnxmen: :( |
| 22:21.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 22:21.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you're facing *real* problems |
| 22:22.22 | kerio | lnxmen: have you tried removing your sim and the uSD? |
| 22:22.30 | lnxmen | yes |
| 22:22.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should check in PC's syslog when plugging your N900 with semi-decently charged battery to USB of PC |
| 22:22.42 | lnxmen | there is no sim and no SD |
| 22:22.52 | lnxmen | dmesg? |
| 22:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, should work too |
| 22:23.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | though i don't know a PC that doesn't have syslog |
| 22:23.23 | kerio | my n900! |
| 22:23.50 | lnxmen | okay, let's do it :D |
| 22:23.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | something /var/log/* |
| 22:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | either syslog, or messages |
| 22:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | other flenames are possible |
| 22:24.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | file* |
| 22:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | there should be some notification about N900 ROMBOOT |
| 22:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | detected on USB |
| 22:24.49 | lnxmen | ROMBOOT? |
| 22:25.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you plug in the N900 in powered down state |
| 22:25.17 | lnxmen | My N900 doesn't give me any signs of live ;d |
| 22:25.54 | lnxmen | dmesg gives no informations about USB plugged device (N900) |
| 22:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a 'good' battery? on USB? |
| 22:25.59 | lnxmen | but I did it |
| 22:26.18 | lnxmen | yes, on USB, but with 'bad' battery ;d |
| 22:26.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | bad battery won't allow device to boot to any conscious state |
| 22:27.16 | lnxmen | and good battery too |
| 22:27.31 | lnxmen | it's must be hardware fault |
| 22:27.35 | lnxmen | it* |
| 22:27.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure USB logs to dmesg |
| 22:27.50 | lnxmen | hmm |
| 22:28.03 | lnxmen | hmm |
| 22:28.31 | lnxmen | I plugged game controler via USB |
| 22:28.52 | lnxmen | and in dmesg I can see some informations about it |
| 22:29.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.536116] usb 1-1: new high speed USB device number 13 using ehci_hcd |
| 22:30.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651496] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0106 |
| 22:30.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651505] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=34, Product=38, SerialNumber=0 |
| 22:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651512] usb 1-1: Product: Nokia USB ROM |
| 22:30.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jan 2 23:29:12 halebop kernel: [4235832.651518] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Nokia |
| 22:30.33 | lnxmen | When my N900 was working I had similar messages |
| 22:30.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | on inserting battery, after I wondered why it played dead bug on plugging USB to PC |
| 22:31.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | same moment I inserted battery, tail -f /var/log/messages spits out above lines |
| 22:31.49 | lnxmen | it's this same messages like in dmesg |
| 22:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need a proper battery to test |
| 22:33.07 | lnxmen | okay |
| 22:33.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still blame battery, and honestly I don't trust your replacement battery, even when it 'looks similar' |
| 22:33.27 | lnxmen | tomorrow I'll try to arrange it |
| 22:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the USB test has the advantage of not depending on powerbutton and rootfs |
| 22:35.17 | lnxmen | what mean with USB test? |
| 22:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | the test you just did |
| 22:37.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's actually hardly any more basic test - except flatbatrecover which should always work, give battery, device and charger are OK |
| 22:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the steady amber should come up at least shortly for any battery too low to boot to NOKIA bootscreen |
| 22:38.51 | lnxmen | even if hardware is broken? |
| 22:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | even if CPU is defect, yes |
| 22:40.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just one small chip (well actually 2) and battery nad USB port that are needed, and of course the LED |
| 22:40.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | an unplugged or broken flex cable between screen and body would also cause LED to not light up anymore |
| 22:42.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but unless you inserted a credit card into the slot between keyboard and screen, it's hard to figure how that cable could get unplugged |
| 22:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope you had no card of any kind in that pocket while skiing? |
| 22:44.14 | lnxmen | yes, I had only N900 in pocket |
| 22:44.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 22:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | get a proper spare battery |
| 22:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | or try charging the one you have in another compatible phone |
| 22:45.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5800 for example |
| 22:45.10 | lnxmen | hmm |
| 22:46.44 | lnxmen | but how battery could broke during falls? |
| 22:46.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ iirc |
| 22:46.58 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@ip-213-220-198-105.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 22:47.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | LiIon don't like hard impact |
| 22:47.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | also don't like cold |
| 22:47.31 | lnxmen | 2C? Is it cold for LiIon? |
| 22:47.47 | kerio | 2C is cold for humans! |
| 22:47.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really, but a 'weak' battery may break on it |
| 22:47.59 | kerio | why were you outside in the snow instead of being on a warm beach? |
| 22:48.08 | lnxmen | inside the jacket was more warm |
| 22:48.25 | lnxmen | and I prespired |
| 22:48.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, check your battery |
| 22:48.39 | lnxmen | okay |
| 22:48.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2.7V also indicates fatal hw defect |
| 22:49.01 | kerio | or a broken multimeter :) |
| 22:49.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 22:50.03 | lnxmen | xD |
| 22:50.35 | *** join/#maemo Theorbo (~Aiden@70.52.23.206) |
| 22:50.36 | lnxmen | Anyway having Linux in phone is a wonderful thing :D |
| 22:51.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll hardly find anybody arguing that, in here |
| 22:51.05 | Aoyagi | That's what some Android people claim too. |
| 22:52.13 | tadzik | I think it's mostly a matter of unix-ish userspace than linux itself |
| 22:52.26 | kerio | *coffcoffBUSYBOXcoffcoff* |
| 22:52.45 | jaska | lousybox <.< |
| 22:52.52 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, i was reading a bit of lkml today |
| 22:53.05 | kerio | apparently linus is getting annoyed at udev/systemd |
| 22:53.24 | Theorbo | I'd like to get a consensus of what most of you are most excited about or interested in - FFOS, Android, Nemo, SailFish, Ubuntu Phone/Mobile? What do you see yourself running later this year or early next year? |
| 22:53.42 | kerio | Theorbo: ffos? |
| 22:53.58 | Theorbo | FireFox (I just included it because it is opensource) |
| 22:54.02 | kerio | oh |
| 22:54.18 | kerio | so far, i see myself running maemo fremantle |
| 22:54.26 | kerio | :s |
| 22:54.40 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 22:55.47 | Theorbo | I'm currently a Maemo user. I have ignored Harmattan because of Aegis. I was looking forward to SailFish but now I feel very confident it is going to be something controlled by the desires of Chinese parties that Jolla has involved itself with in wanting to be a major player. |
| 22:57.39 | Theorbo | As for Ubuntu's Phone solution - I worry that Canonical is growing to become a company that can't be trusted with user private data. I think they have spent the last few years seducing the opensource community with a reliable, easy, stable solution and now they are going to go really commercial. I don't have a problem with commercial as long as the cards are laid on the table. Commercial, today, means selling of user data. |
| 22:58.31 | lnxmen | What about circuit? |
| 22:58.40 | Aoyagi | Oh I agree with that so much. |
| 22:58.44 | tadzik | I'm kind of interested in Sailfish, but, well, if it were available that'd be great |
| 22:58.47 | lnxmen | I have plugged charger and N900 is warm now |
| 22:59.05 | tadzik | "we'll show a phone in Q4 2012!". Oh, great, N950 running Nemo on steroids |
| 22:59.23 | tadzik | the ui is neat, agreed |
| 23:00.50 | tadzik | as for selling users' data, I've heard this saying "if you're not paying for the product, then you're actually the product someone pays for", or something like that |
| 23:00.59 | Hurrian | Theorbo, the solution is simple - make sure that Canonical doesn't use a Canonical search API |
| 23:01.16 | Hurrian | make it directly call Amazon/Google/*'s search API, but not Canonical |
| 23:01.44 | Hurrian | much like the situation on Android, don't trust your manufacturer with your data |
| 23:01.47 | Theorbo | Hurrian - I worry that parts of the platform will be close source |
| 23:01.59 | Theorbo | I worry that those parts could hide worrying things. |
| 23:02.24 | Theorbo | I am a security consultant. I have worked in a few industries. You should think less of tech companies than you do. |
| 23:02.41 | Theorbo | user data is becoming the new prime realestate |
| 23:02.46 | Theorbo | indeed, it has been for some time |
| 23:02.55 | Hurrian | Theorbo, well, let's see how many components are closed, first. |
| 23:03.50 | Theorbo | If canonical was open and just put amazon, netflix, and ebay shortcuts et cetera on the default install I would not mind in the slightest. |
| 23:03.53 | Hurrian | It's obvious Canonical wants to go commercial, but to be evil or not is to be seen. |
| 23:04.15 | Theorbo | If they got paid to include FireFox OS as the default or similar - I don't care |
| 23:04.38 | Theorbo | If they start hiding things in code, I get nervous |
| 23:04.46 | Theorbo | And I get nervous that I won't know for sure. |
| 23:05.01 | Hurrian | Theorbo: and that's why you look for the binary blobs first |
| 23:05.49 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@host146-174-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:05.50 | Theorbo | We need something like Mer/Nemo that opensource user will actually put their wallets behind enough that it produces a solid, usable day to day OS |
| 23:05.52 | Hurrian | If their fancy UI is still based on desktop Unity+Qt though, it'll be open, and then you can just rip out the binary bits with apt-get purge. |
| 23:06.31 | Hurrian | That sounds like Sailfish. |
| 23:06.59 | Hurrian | (although, the binary components of which are still unknown) |
| 23:08.58 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@212.255.19.30) |
| 23:09.15 | M4rtinK | well, Unity actually doesn't use Qt on the desktop :) |
| 23:09.35 | freemangordon | I was wondering that one too |
| 23:09.41 | M4rtinK | even for the 2d stuff |
| 23:09.54 | M4rtinK | they switched to lvmpipe for that IIRC |
| 23:10.07 | freemangordon | how exactly is Qt/QML integrated with GTK3 stuff |
| 23:11.46 | Theorbo | Hurrian - was your statement "That sounds like Sailfish" referring to my statement? |
| 23:11.58 | Theorbo | gordon - nice name |
| 23:12.11 | M4rtinK | freemangordon: not at all ? :P |
| 23:12.12 | Theorbo | :) |
| 23:13.54 | freemangordon | M4rtinK: that wouldn't make sense :) |
| 23:16.30 | Hurrian | Theorbo: yup. |
| 23:17.49 | freemangordon | Theorbo: you know who Gordon Freeman is? |
| 23:17.57 | Theorbo | I disagree. I think Jolla fancies itself as a developer company but I think that those at the top have been seduced by "business power" and are very involved with in China in a way that I'm not thrilled with. |
| 23:18.15 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@77.51.71.74) |
| 23:18.54 | Hurrian | as in putting interception capabilities into the OS, etc? |
| 23:19.00 | Theorbo | I think that they are painted as this MeeGo revival team based around opensource lovers. I think that they are actually willing to do anything to make grounds in market share in China. |
| 23:19.26 | Theorbo | At least those at the top. |
| 23:20.31 | Theorbo | All that I am saying is that I don't like the path they are taking and that to be a success in China (when starting in China) often involves less than noble concessions. |
| 23:21.04 | Hurrian | Theorbo: well, if those two vendors are not to be trusted, then how about GNOME3 (is mutter fixed for GLES yet?) |
| 23:21.35 | Hurrian | GNOME3 + Mer providing the middleware |
| 23:22.17 | M4rtinK | well, the more open, the harder is it to build in some interception backdoors into software |
| 23:22.33 | M4rtinK | doesn't help with hardware too much :) |
| 23:23.11 | Theorbo | I am talking about many things |
| 23:23.13 | M4rtinK | Hurrian: mutter uses Clutter |
| 23:23.30 | M4rtinK | Clutter runns on both OpenGL & OpenGL ES |
| 23:23.41 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 23:24.04 | M4rtinK | I find it a bit obsoleted by QML though |
| 23:25.02 | freemangordon | M4rtinK: my experience with QML is close to nothing, but I have some concerns about its performance |
| 23:25.18 | Hurrian | M4rtinK, as for the hardware blobs, only the closed radio firmware is worrying |
| 23:25.38 | freemangordon | yes, we were told Qt5 will be the next best thing after the sliced bread, but still |
| 23:26.47 | Theorbo | They even have their data centre in China now. |
| 23:27.12 | Theorbo | When I execute apt-get, I don't like that path passing through the Great Wall. |
| 23:27.28 | Theorbo | (sorry - pkg_add - BSD user here) |
| 23:28.21 | Hurrian | wait, Jolla hosts in China now? |
| 23:28.32 | Theorbo | If I am not mistaken, that is the plan. |
| 23:29.11 | Theorbo | And if you would like to argue about compiling form source et cetera, I don't imagine everyone is intending to do that even if it will be easily done |
| 23:29.12 | M4rtinK | freemangordon: well clutter seems to handle large images better |
| 23:29.36 | Theorbo | I am hugely concerned with the hardware aspect as well |
| 23:30.10 | M4rtinK | freemangordon: maybe slower but still handles them fine, while in QML it degrades both visually and in performance once (i assume) max texture size is reached |
| 23:31.43 | freemangordon | M4rtinK: I guess that depends on driver, but still, if clutter can do it, why QML can't. Speaking for Fremantle ofc |
| 23:32.01 | Hurrian | Theorbo: well, let's see what parts of the OS require user data. |
| 23:32.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry about hw, make them send my a prototype and schematics |
| 23:32.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 23:32.12 | M4rtinK | yep, my experience is also from fremantle |
| 23:32.23 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: but you have one :P |
| 23:32.26 | Hurrian | and then, you know, not use them. |
| 23:33.01 | Hurrian | because as we all know from Android and iOS, apps for websites (Facebook/Skype/G+) aren't exactly secure. |
| 23:33.01 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: iirc you have n950, aren't you? |
| 23:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: one of the future Jollaphones? nah! |
| 23:33.29 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no, n950 |
| 23:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *honestly* doubt Jollaphone will look anything like N950 |
| 23:33.48 | Theorbo | Doc - my point is that Jolla won't be the kind of company that sends schematics out |
| 23:34.01 | Theorbo | that is what they have been painted as - that is not the direction they are going. |
| 23:34.20 | Hurrian | They have to send out service manuals sometime in the future. |
| 23:34.51 | freemangordon | hmm, which raises the question - who will support the devices in warranty? |
| 23:35.13 | freemangordon | (assuming such will be sold in europe) |
| 23:35.17 | kerio | just make devices that don't break, problem solved |
| 23:35.25 | Theorbo | I'd like to be very blunt. China - as in Chines Authorities (the guys infamous for doing less than moral things) have been wanting an OS for China. It is very much a government initiative and not simply because they don't want foreign companies taking out profits. |
| 23:35.41 | freemangordon | kerio: heh? |
| 23:35.45 | Theorbo | It is a nationalistic initiative with hidden undertones |
| 23:36.07 | Hurrian | kerio, going by the team's track record for RX-51 USB ports, RM-680 LCD screens and RM-696 USB doors, that's a tall order |
| 23:36.11 | Theorbo | If Jolla has been rubbing elbows over there for a year - as they bragged about doing - they might be lined up to fill that spot |
| 23:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Theorbo: well, not much I could answer, except "let's wait and see" |
| 23:36.39 | Theorbo | And if they are the platform that the government has been wanting - you can bet on something being fishy in some part of the stack - from software to hardware |
| 23:37.27 | Theorbo | there will be something. The Chinese have shown over and over that that is their cup of tea. This is not some anti-Chinese rambling. It is the fact of things. |
| 23:37.51 | Theorbo | Doc - the point is we really won't know for sure. You have to judge by the surroundings |
| 23:38.42 | Theorbo | and the surroundings are a Finnish group moving over to China playing ball on every level as 95 percent of their funding comes from Chinese companies (that are VERY influenced by the government) |
| 23:38.58 | ShadowJK | And also the Americans, like when Boeing overhauled China's presidential jet, suddenly hundreds of undocumented microphones, recorders, and transmitters had been installed ;) |
| 23:39.03 | Theorbo | and even without the funding - China is the market that the Jolla execs want to cut their teeth on |
| 23:39.44 | Hurrian | Theorbo: well of course we can't know for sure now, but once either the Sailfish platform is available for Mer Core or the devices get released, then we can take a peek through it, and decide if it is yet another mobile cancer or otherwise. |
| 23:39.48 | Theorbo | If they have aspirations of becoming the guys they have worked for for so long, human nature will surrender morals to whatever party they have to deal with in the red nation |
| 23:40.31 | ShadowJK | China and India are also interesting in that Google and Nokia are fucking it up there, they don't have any way to bill people, so appstore piracy is the norm :) |
| 23:40.59 | Theorbo | Shadow - I'm not saying that the West doesn't do similar. The benefit of the west is that they are mildly more likely to focus on foreign government whereas China is known for setting sights on everything , foreign/local civlian/government |
| 23:41.20 | Hurrian | Although if China wanted one botnet to control the Chinese, one has to wonder why it wasn't Aliyun or MIUI or Xiaomi or ZTE or Huawei. |
| 23:41.25 | ShadowJK | So if someone was able to figure out how to accept people's money, they'd have greater chance at getting a slice of the market than the people who can't figure out how to receive money |
| 23:41.36 | Hurrian | (wait, wasn't Huawei already caught botnetting their network equipment?) |
| 23:41.58 | ShadowJK | I think that was Nokia Siemens :-) |
| 23:42.20 | ShadowJK | The spy features in their base station hardware |
| 23:43.03 | Hurrian | ShadowJK, in US deployments, what carrier hardware doesn't require "lawful intercept" functionality? |
| 23:43.46 | Theorbo | Hurrian - I'm a security consultant - if things are done properly at the hardware level there is VERY little chance of being able to catch it. |
| 23:43.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | things we be pretty obvious, since china doesn't need to hide anything |
| 23:44.00 | Theorbo | I'm not trying to go nuts on a tinfoil hat tangent |
| 23:44.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/we/will/ |
| 23:44.38 | Theorbo | but if SailFish is what the chinese government has been waiting for and if deals are being done behind closed doors, then the likelihood of an untrustworthy platform are quite high. |
| 23:44.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | tivoization allows them to force their users on any skynet crap they like |
| 23:45.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you all know OMAP comes with tivo per default, as do most other SOCs nowadays |
| 23:45.41 | Theorbo | In the end, most things are being done at the network level. I'm just mentioning this because most people don't seem to have any concern. |
| 23:45.44 | Theorbo | I wish more had. |
| 23:45.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Theorbo: you'll easily spot the closed blobs that do nasty things |
| 23:46.09 | Theorbo | In software - yes |
| 23:46.14 | Hurrian | Theorbo, iOS' massive popularity is a testament to user blindness. |
| 23:46.14 | Theorbo | I'm talking about hardware. |
| 23:46.45 | Hurrian | Oh, and hiding it in hardware works until one of the following happens: |
| 23:46.49 | Theorbo | at least, recently i was referring to hardware |
| 23:46.52 | ShadowJK | They just issue orders. Like after someone took a taxi in Beijing, hid anti-party opinions inside ping pong balls, rolled down taxi window while driving through town and throwing the ping pong balls with the hidden messages at people, all taxi cabs were mandated to convert their taxis so that windows can not be rolled down, and taxi drivers may not transport passengers with more than 1 ping pong ball. |
| 23:46.58 | ShadowJK | :P |
| 23:47.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm EE, I tell you hw is a terribly difficult field to insert something that nobody notices and still offers some function beneficial to the dark side |
| 23:47.13 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@212-183-122-245.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 23:47.51 | Hurrian | 1) Suspicious traffic is caught traveling across the network, can't be pinpointed to blobs in the SW, someone takes a Salae to the radio |
| 23:47.53 | Theorbo | My specialty is software - I won't argue hardware with you |
| 23:48.19 | Theorbo | But the EE in the security field I associate with share my opinion |
| 23:48.30 | Theorbo | Indeed, it is theirs that I have taken on |
| 23:49.40 | Hurrian | 2) The Jolla phone becomes popular, one of the decap companies that does decaps for PR tears down the Jollaphone, hilarity ensues. |
| 23:50.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | homestly, why should anybody do such nonsense like hiding functions in hw. All they need is tivoized bootloader and with that they force every BS they like onto their customers |
| 23:50.47 | ShadowJK | This is silly anyway, china makes everything anyways, whether it be iphones or ranombrand android :P |
| 23:51.05 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, because tivoization of Linux hardware is a surefire way to get your shit rooted? |
| 23:52.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | like HARM? |
| 23:53.19 | Hurrian | How significant /was/ the tivoization on it? |
| 23:53.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably in china you are about 30cm shorter when they catch you witha rooted device. and odds are they catch everybody who roots it |
| 23:53.51 | Hurrian | If they disallowed openmode kernel on N9/50, that would be one hell of an uproar.; |
| 23:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly why should the HIDE any such rogue shit? |
| 23:55.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since you can't hide any active useful function in a mobile anyway, it gets detected from behaviour of device by virtually everybody and his dog |
| 23:55.57 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, advertising you have a rootkit preinstalled isn't good for sales |
| 23:56.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you think China does give a shit about it? |
| 23:57.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | is adveritising internet censorship and great chinese firewall good for internet sales? |
| 23:57.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | Chinese Gvmt simply does it |
| 23:57.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | they don't ask if anybody likes it, so they wouldn't even think about hiding |
| 23:59.43 | Hurrian | Might work over there, and honestly their network is rootkitted at every single level so even if you used Gentoo on an OpenCores IP block your traffic would still be sniffed |
| 23:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're trying to hide stuff when you expect the one you're hiding the stuff from doesn't expect it to be there already |