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| 00:45.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | happy new year to EMEA |
| 00:47.52 | jon_y | EMEA? |
| 00:48.59 | NIN101 | Europe, Middle East, Africa. And happy new year :-). |
| 00:49.18 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: its past 1.45 in finland too and maemo.org is up :D |
| 00:49.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | yoh, just checked it |
| 00:50.14 | Ken-Young | I new they'd never abandon us! |
| 00:50.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | just for fun, since I don't expect anything to happen |
| 00:51.05 | FIQ|n900 | it's 2:50 in finland |
| 00:52.54 | kerio | i would've expected it to go down at 10 am UTC on december 31st |
| 00:52.58 | kerio | using the kiribati excuse |
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| 01:02.28 | ShadowJK | I expect 10am 2nd of January |
| 01:03.43 | kerio | "Well, we said 2013, and it's 2013 somewhere!" |
| 01:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~moo |
| 01:10.25 | infobot | ACTION mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass |
| 01:10.40 | kerio | ~µ |
| 01:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if she segfaulted on that |
| 01:11.19 | FIQ|n900 | ~segfault |
| 01:11.19 | infobot | from memory, segfault is what asterisk does when it's not given the correct configuration! redo your config! |
| 01:11.19 | kerio | surely she's tougher than some unicode |
| 01:11.31 | kerio | infobot: µ is <reply>see moo |
| 01:11.31 | infobot | kerio: i'm not going to learn illegal characters |
| 01:11.38 | FIQ|n900 | lol |
| 01:11.39 | kerio | infobot: your face is illegal |
| 01:11.39 | infobot | ...but your face is already something else... |
| 01:11.49 | kerio | ...wat |
| 01:12.00 | FIQ|n900 | she's trolling you |
| 01:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 01:12.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | still laughing |
| 01:13.13 | kerio | we need a qdb |
| 01:13.28 | kerio | ~your face |
| 01:13.28 | infobot | hmm... your face is like an ass, apt. It sucks my dick inside. |
| 01:13.38 | kerio | i don't even |
| 01:13.41 | kerio | ~factinfo your face |
| 01:13.41 | infobot | error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) |
| 01:13.41 | infobot | your face -- created by Cntfenring <POBocks@sar168.resnet.usf.edu> at Thu Jan 30 23:38:57 2003 (3623 days); it has been requested 5 times, last by kerio, 13s ago. |
| 01:14.10 | FIQ|n900 | bug yet to be fixed? ok |
| 01:14.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsckng bogus errormsg! |
| 01:14.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~useless |
| 01:14.25 | infobot | ACTION starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :( |
| 01:14.29 | kerio | nooo :( |
| 01:14.37 | kerio | hugs infobot |
| 01:14.48 | FIQ|n900 | ~botsnack |
| 01:14.48 | infobot | thanks, FIQ|n900 |
| 01:14.56 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to program responses to actions like that? |
| 01:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 01:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the only other attention key except infobot: and ~ is thanks |
| 01:15.56 | FIQ|n900 | thanks infobot |
| 01:16.04 | FIQ|n900 | k |
| 01:16.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and thanks only works for the root personality which changes frequently between apt, infobot, purl, and dunno what |
| 01:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~+uptime |
| 01:16.35 | kerio | thanks apt |
| 01:16.35 | infobot | no worries, kerio |
| 01:16.40 | kerio | :3 |
| 01:17.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ibot |
| 01:17.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | was the 4thz |
| 01:17.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4. even |
| 01:17.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~chaninfo |
| 01:17.57 | infobot | 123/123 channels, 4613 users, 3286 unique: #debian/1182, #kde/358, #maemo/235, #asterisk/190, #gsoc/177, #meego/143, #wowuidev/142, #harmattan/141, #oe/125, #wowace/120, #arm-netbook/100, #webos-internals/92, #wowhead/91, #openmoko/80, #cubieboard/77, #utah/70, #bzflag/64, #openmoko-cdevel/62, #tomcat/58, #uclibc/56, #edev/53, #n9/49, #curseforge/46, #htc-linux/44, #maemo-ssu/43, #asterisk-dev/41, #/38, #sc2mapster/35, #gllug/34, #elinux/33, ... |
| 01:18.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 01:20.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ircstats |
| 01:20.28 | infobot | Currently I'm hooked up to chat.freenode.net:6667 but only for 3d 5h 17m 16s. I had to reconnect 4 times. Connectivity: 100.00 % |
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| 01:24.25 | ManoftheSea | happy new year. |
| 01:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | same to you |
| 01:26.33 | kerio | fST is the only relevant timezone here |
| 01:26.45 | kerio | and it's the same as UTC |
| 01:28.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fst |
| 01:28.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 01:28.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf fst |
| 01:29.00 | kerio | freenode Standard Time |
| 01:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ugt |
| 01:29.12 | infobot | well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 01:30.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fst is freenode Standard Time |
| 01:30.06 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 01:31.25 | FIQ|n900 | fST == gmt+0 |
| 01:31.36 | kerio | FIQ|n900: UTC |
| 01:31.46 | FIQ|n900 | shh |
| 01:31.51 | FIQ|n900 | eet |
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| 08:13.37 | sourav | Hi could someone direct me to which VM image to use from here (http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php) to compile for fremantle in scartchbox |
| 08:15.31 | ShadowJK | I'd try the one with fremantle in the description |
| 08:16.48 | sourav | thanks |
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| 10:08.55 | snx | anyone help me with uboot |
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| 10:27.51 | Sicelo | if you ask, someone might |
| 10:29.30 | sourav | yes getting |
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| 11:21.13 | josuah | How do you power on an N900 with kernel power and CSSU when it is charging? I keep pressing the power on button and it keeps taking me through weird splash screens. I have to remove the charger to get it to boot |
| 11:21.42 | josuah | Pretty annoying since I just plugged in the charger to upgrade CSSU (it was refusing), now it won't boot |
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| 11:25.23 | DocScrutinizer06 | unrelated to CSSU |
| 11:25.41 | DocScrutinizer06 | probably old KP |
| 11:26.25 | josuah | 2.6.28-10power50 |
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| 11:28.10 | Sicelo | you have uboot? |
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| 11:29.42 | josuah | I haven't touched the boot loader since I bought the phone |
| 11:30.24 | josuah | It's uboot by default, yeah? |
| 11:30.31 | Sicelo | no |
| 11:30.48 | josuah | oh, well, then no, I don't have uboot :) |
| 11:31.26 | josuah | I remove the charger from the wall socket and it boots, though |
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| 12:02.04 | kerio | weird |
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| 12:02.09 | kerio | ACT_DEAD confusion? |
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| 12:19.19 | sourav | I am getting error while doing u-boot-update-bootmenu |
| 12:19.27 | kerio | sourav: which error? |
| 12:19.41 | sourav | invalid file-missing kernel |
| 12:19.55 | kerio | this is just a wild guess, mind you |
| 12:20.01 | kerio | but i think there might be a missing file |
| 12:20.27 | sourav | okay what I did is installed uboot |
| 12:20.38 | kerio | no, hold on |
| 12:20.44 | kerio | where are you getting this error message? |
| 12:21.05 | sourav | from terminal |
| 12:21.14 | kerio | because it's normal that stuff like, say, backupmenu gives out that error |
| 12:21.53 | jon_y | what about the piggyback kernel? |
| 12:22.11 | kerio | what about it? |
| 12:22.19 | jon_y | does that load? |
| 12:22.31 | jon_y | or only when adding new kernels? |
| 12:22.43 | sourav | i didn't restarted |
| 12:22.50 | sourav | with fear |
| 12:23.00 | kerio | sourav: error messages when parsing fanoush bootmenu entries are expected and normal |
| 12:23.21 | kerio | sourav: pastebin the output if you're worried |
| 12:24.00 | sourav | okay give me one minute |
| 12:30.20 | DocScrutinizer06 | uBoot is unrelated to fanoush's bootmenu and shouldn't even touch those config files, except for importing stuff on explicit user command |
| 12:30.37 | DocScrutinizer06 | blame pali and ask for this getting fixed |
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| 12:32.46 | DocScrutinizer06 | spitting error msgs when there's no real error (known as "expected to fail") shouldn't show up anywhere either. You got all sorts of shell scripting tools to avoid such errors, starting with `test` command and not ending with redirection of stderr |
| 12:34.15 | kerio | it's more like a "Entry 'backupmenu.item' not a valid uboot bootmenu entry" |
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| 12:43.20 | DocScrutinizer06 | exactly what I say: the two systems are largely unrelated, and shouldn't get mixed up by uboot install procedure |
| 12:44.55 | DocScrutinizer06 | there are most likely some uBoot configs that user doesn't want to show up in bootmenu, and there are bootmenu items that are meaningless to uBoot and thus throw errors |
| 12:45.59 | kerio | no uboot configs show up in fanoush bootmenu |
| 12:46.03 | DocScrutinizer06 | it's like using same config for several alternative mail related programs. You wouldn't want your thunderbird and sendmail configs mixed up in a mess in one directory, would you? |
| 12:47.41 | kerio | of course not |
| 12:47.54 | kerio | but otoh, it would break backwards compatibility |
| 12:47.57 | DocScrutinizer06 | the correct way for mail was to start a tool sendmail-import-from-thunderbird on user's discretion, and otherwise keep the two config domains separate |
| 12:48.13 | DocScrutinizer06 | for uBoot all the same |
| 12:48.14 | chem|st | happy 2013 |
| 12:48.23 | DocScrutinizer06 | happy 2013 chem|st :-D |
| 12:48.27 | chem|st | rises from last night's ashes |
| 12:48.43 | kerio | chem|st: i'm not sure anyone lives in UTC-12 |
| 12:49.08 | DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: wishes for new year are not moot when new year already started |
| 12:49.49 | DocScrutinizer06 | you could argue that some believe too early congratualtions and wishes bring bad luck |
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| 12:52.27 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: thus, the only correct congratulations are the one you give exactly as the calendar rolls over |
| 12:52.29 | kerio | and it must be instant |
| 12:52.33 | kerio | *they |
| 12:52.59 | DocScrutinizer06 | why? |
| 12:53.13 | kerio | because too early isn't ok, and too late is too late |
| 12:53.19 | kerio | :) |
| 12:53.25 | DocScrutinizer06 | too late is BS |
| 12:53.38 | DocScrutinizer06 | there is no such thing like "too late" |
| 12:54.04 | chem|st | kerio: then a happy armageddon+12 |
| 12:54.18 | DocScrutinizer06 | it's kinda gross to blame somebody for best wishes he offers |
| 12:54.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: happy 2012 |
| 12:54.44 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer06] by ChanServ |
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| 12:55.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: <3 |
| 12:55.08 | DocScrutinizer06 | you wanna continue giving the party pooper here? |
| 12:55.15 | FIQ|n900 | incoming kick? |
| 12:55.23 | DocScrutinizer06 | pending |
| 12:55.43 | kerio | :c |
| 12:55.44 | chem|st | and we are 13 hours after utc 2013 and that is what counts! |
| 12:55.56 | FIQ|n900 | happy 2013 everybody |
| 12:56.03 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer06] by ChanServ |
| 12:56.04 | chem|st | FIQ|n900: +1 |
| 12:56.10 | kerio | FIQ|n900: +13 |
| 12:56.22 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer06: behave! |
| 12:56.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | same to you all (except kerio wo doesn't appreciate best wishes) |
| 13:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | re act_dead vs boot-from-charging: allegedly this got fixed for KP50 or KP51 by either pali or freemangordon |
| 13:06.25 | freemangordon | iirc KP50 |
| 13:12.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: thanks, was it you or pali? |
| 13:12.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I think you found the bug |
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| 13:23.13 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yep |
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| 13:36.57 | sourav | sorry kerio my battery was out and i have to restart it now in reboot loops |
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| 13:45.30 | kerio | battery out and bootlooping hu |
| 13:45.31 | kerio | h |
| 13:45.31 | kerio | neat |
| 13:45.52 | kerio | well, turn it on with the keyboard open and at the prompt type "run attachboot" |
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| 13:48.21 | sourav | it did some readings and rebooted |
| 13:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourav: you're aware that bootloop doesn't charge battery, are you? |
| 13:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: run attachboot? |
| 13:51.31 | kerio | to launch the attached kernel, iirc |
| 13:51.33 | kerio | aka omap1 |
| 13:51.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 13:51.43 | sourav | yes so for that i use wallcharger |
| 13:51.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so uboot menu |
| 13:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourav: how's using wallcharger related to non-charging in bootloop? |
| 13:54.18 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 13:54.37 | sourav | my battery was 0% i treid to switch on but that's not possible so i charged my battery with wallcharger |
| 13:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I thought sourav said he doesn't use any uBoot? |
| 13:55.02 | kerio | maybe i'm confused, but wasn't his problem that he was trying to configure uboot? |
| 13:55.23 | kerio | yep |
| 13:55.27 | sourav | now when switching on getting penguin type image |
| 13:55.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, I mixed two users, josuah and sourav |
| 13:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry |
| 13:55.58 | sourav | hu |
| 13:56.03 | kerio | sourav: when you say wallcharger, do you mean an external charger? |
| 13:56.26 | sourav | yes |
| 13:56.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 13:56.33 | kerio | because the wallcharger is the nokia charger with the microusb plug |
| 13:56.59 | sourav | sorry its external charger |
| 13:57.57 | kerio | well then you're safe |
| 13:58.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka (wallwart) (genuine Nokia) fastcharger |
| 13:58.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | vs external charger |
| 13:58.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | wallcharger is a rather ambiguous and unfortunate term |
| 13:59.08 | sourav | apologize |
| 13:59.21 | sourav | what should i do now |
| 13:59.34 | kerio | charge the battery, for instance :) |
| 13:59.45 | sourav | charged it |
| 13:59.49 | kerio | once it's charged, try turning your n900 on with the keyboard open |
| 14:00.00 | kerio | then get to the uboot prompt, and type "run attachboot" |
| 14:00.00 | sourav | did it |
| 14:00.13 | sourav | yes then |
| 14:01.11 | sourav | it reads and after nearly 3-4 sec it rebooted |
| 14:01.18 | kerio | hm |
| 14:01.40 | kerio | did you change your kernel? |
| 14:02.02 | sourav | i am on kpv51r1 |
| 14:02.26 | kerio | reflash it |
| 14:02.42 | kerio | get the .fiasco image from the deb |
| 14:02.55 | kerio | and then use flasher-3.5 to flash it, from a computer |
| 14:03.11 | sourav | okay got it |
| 14:03.24 | jon_y | ar x .deb; tar xfv control.tar.gz |
| 14:03.26 | sourav | but what can be the problem |
| 14:03.39 | kerio | sourav: do you have cssu-thumb installed, perchance? |
| 14:03.47 | sourav | yes |
| 14:04.00 | kerio | well that explains it |
| 14:04.00 | jon_y | oops, no more omap kernel for you |
| 14:04.05 | kerio | indeed |
| 14:04.23 | kerio | i'd even remove the kernel/kernel-flasher/kernel-modules packages |
| 14:04.33 | kerio | so you don't risk booting it at all |
| 14:04.48 | kerio | sourav: the standard uboot image has the stock kernel attached to it |
| 14:05.04 | kerio | you can't boot from that, it doesn't have the fix for thumb2 binaries |
| 14:05.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | the joy of thumbified system |
| 14:06.20 | kerio | oh shush, you |
| 14:08.30 | sourav | then how to use it ? |
| 14:08.39 | jon_y | if you have the kp modules already installed, just flash the kp kernel |
| 14:08.58 | kerio | sourav: install kernel-power-bootimg, pretty much |
| 14:09.10 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-142-127-247.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:09.12 | kerio | and then configure uboot to use that as the default |
| 14:09.40 | sourav | okay guys posting what i did tell me what i did wrong |
| 14:10.18 | jon_y | well, install bootimg and uboot AFTER you get your system booting again |
| 14:10.18 | sourav | installed uboot through ham uboot 2012.10-rc3-1 |
| 14:10.42 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 14:10.46 | jon_y | after flashing kp, you need to reinstall uboot |
| 14:11.43 | sourav | jon tell me what i did wrong,let me complete |
| 14:12.12 | sourav | first uboot then bootimg then u-boot-update-bootmenu |
| 14:12.28 | sourav | is that right |
| 14:12.36 | kerio | sourav: oh, you should be able to boot from the installed bootimg |
| 14:12.40 | kerio | the kp51 one |
| 14:12.51 | kerio | boot with the keyboard open, it'll give you a menu |
| 14:13.14 | sourav | yes kp51 |
| 14:14.37 | sourav | ya it gave the menu, selecting run attachboot |
| 14:14.46 | kerio | no, don't run attachboot |
| 14:14.56 | kerio | the attached kernel is useless for you |
| 14:15.02 | kerio | you have to select kp51 |
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| 14:15.40 | jon_y | if the kp selection is not there, you'll need to flash kp onto it to replace uboot |
| 14:15.50 | kerio | jon_y: well, not necessarily |
| 14:15.57 | kerio | you can load kp51 on a uSD :) |
| 14:15.57 | jon_y | you can redo uboot after your system boots properly |
| 14:16.18 | jon_y | that works too if you have a spare |
| 14:20.39 | sourav | how to load kp on usd |
| 14:20.54 | kerio | sourav: you should already have kp51 in the uboot menu |
| 14:21.38 | sourav | no |
| 14:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: the friggin uboot-update-bootmenu (or whatsthename) threw error |
| 14:22.28 | kerio | no it didn't |
| 14:22.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you'll need to toss over the real uBoot command to boot kp51 |
| 14:23.10 | kerio | http://pastebin.ca/2298487 <- this is a correct output from u-boot-update-bootmenu |
| 14:23.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouuuuuuuch! |
| 14:24.49 | sourav | but whats that invalid file-missing kernel |
| 14:24.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, could you provide a uBoot menu screenshotß |
| 14:25.05 | kerio | sourav: backupmenu isn't a uboot entry |
| 14:25.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourav: bogus bullshit |
| 14:25.13 | kerio | ...pretty much, yes |
| 14:25.30 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'm not sure if i have another digital camera |
| 14:26.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you paste the original uBoot init file? |
| 14:26.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike most of you I prefer that over some messy bootmenu entries |
| 14:26.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it *really* shows what uboot gonna do |
| 14:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I never got it how bootmenu would boot other kernels at all - except when it's part of friggin maemo-multiboot |
| 14:30.52 | kerio | there's no original uboot init file |
| 14:31.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense |
| 14:31.06 | kerio | if there's no "bootmenu.scr" in the first vfat partition, it defaults to... something |
| 14:31.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | when there wasn't then uBoot wouldn't even boot |
| 14:31.17 | kerio | probably a menu with "run attached kernel" and "enter uboot console" |
| 14:32.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless the built in defaults of uboot are somewhat making sense for some standard bootup |
| 14:32.14 | kerio | indeed :) |
| 14:32.26 | kerio | i'm not sure of what's going to happen if you use the uboot without an attached kernel |
| 14:32.30 | kerio | probably just the console |
| 14:33.01 | jon_y | kerio: can you post the .item for resque OS? |
| 14:33.05 | jon_y | thanks |
| 14:33.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the use if .item when you're missing the necessary files for that? |
| 14:34.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ if( of/ |
| 14:34.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ if/ of/ |
| 14:34.52 | ShadowJK | Does he now |
| 14:34.58 | jon_y | kerio: did you attach kp yourself? |
| 14:35.27 | kerio | jon_y: yep, i kinda wanted to make sure that i could boot regardless of the status of the eMMC |
| 14:35.48 | kerio | so at the very least i can get to the fbootmenu recovery console |
| 14:35.55 | kerio | jon_y: http://pastebin.ca/2298488 |
| 14:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sighs |
| 14:36.24 | jon_y | kerio: where does initrd gets installed to? /boot too? |
| 14:36.47 | kerio | jon_y: you have to put the files in /boot or /opt/boot and then run u-boot-update-bootmenu so the images are converted for uboot and placed in MyDocs/bootmenu.img.d |
| 14:37.23 | jon_y | I know where the kernel goes, initrd also goes to those places? |
| 14:37.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | OUUUUCH! |
| 14:37.51 | kerio | jon_y: yep |
| 14:37.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you seem to be hurting for some reason |
| 14:38.13 | sourav | if i have thumb installed then can't i use uboot |
| 14:38.27 | jon_y | kerio: ok, also which script do you use to attach kp52? |
| 14:38.40 | kerio | u-boot-gen-combined |
| 14:38.47 | jon_y | ooh |
| 14:38.51 | kerio | but first you have to convert the zImage into an uImage |
| 14:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | to add a pop3 account to procmail, add the following files and .config entries to your thunderbird directory: .... >:-o |
| 14:39.02 | jon_y | I'll need to investigate that tomorrow |
| 14:39.20 | jon_y | I think u-boot-update-menu already does that somewhere |
| 14:39.33 | jon_y | *the uImage thing |
| 14:39.35 | kerio | yep |
| 14:40.15 | jon_y | thanks kerio |
| 14:40.16 | jon_y | off to sleep now |
| 14:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm tempted to declare u-boot-update-menu a deprectaed botch |
| 14:41.48 | kerio | complain to pali |
| 14:42.54 | sourav | well i reflashed my device now how can i use uboot |
| 14:45.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | uboot is for booting different kernels. different kernels need different kernel modules in root filesystem. and A thombifid system needs a matching kernel anyway |
| 14:46.08 | kerio | sourav: what did you reflash? :o |
| 14:46.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the first question isn't "how can I use uBoot?" but "what do I want to accomplish and do I need uBoot for that, or can it be done at all?" |
| 14:47.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | the first part of second question is sth only you can answer |
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| 14:49.27 | sourav | i was planning to install nemo |
| 14:49.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | standard uBoot comes in a config that per default boots to stock kernel and stock rootfs system. If you changed your rootfs system to thumb, it won't work with the kernel that comes with uBoot |
| 14:50.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | other kernels and systems (like nemo) need special installation to uBoot |
| 14:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | uBoot somewhat supports a 'standard' secondary OS to boot, installed on uSD |
| 14:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | it however does NOT support primary system = thumb |
| 14:51.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's your 2problem" |
| 14:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's your "problem" |
| 14:51.59 | kerio | what do you mean it doesn't :o |
| 14:52.25 | FredrIQ|n900 | shouldbepossibletoworkaround |
| 14:52.38 | FredrIQ|n900 | +spaces |
| 14:52.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't that obvious? I elaborated that uBoot comes with stock kernel attached, and stock kernel doesn't work for thombified system |
| 14:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | FredrIQ|n900: yep, thus I placed "problem" into ticks |
| 14:53.13 | kerio | so don't use the attached kernel, use something else |
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| 14:54.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I know the sitaution, the issues, and the solution. But it seemed to me you failed to explain any of that to sourav |
| 14:54.37 | kerio | :s i tried |
| 14:56.00 | sourav | well both of you explained me very deeply thanks |
| 14:56.39 | sourav | so what i got till now is to wait till an update to uboot |
| 14:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the probelm sourav is facing could be summarized as: wants to use uBoot eventually to run sth like nemo etc, but right now fails to make thumb system run with uBoot which he'll eventually need to boot nemo. So first we need to explain to him how to set up a stock uBoot pkg so it will boot to thumb system per default |
| 14:57.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourav: such update is unlikely to happen any soonish |
| 14:57.27 | sourav | yes please continue doc |
| 14:57.58 | sourav | how to get it working with thumb |
| 14:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll need to add a proper configuration plus the needed KP image to uBoot config, and make uBoot boot that KP zImage instead of the attached stock kernel |
| 14:58.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | by default |
| 14:58.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | preferably |
| 14:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you dive in head first, and build your own uBoot+KP combo |
| 14:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that's even possible, regarding the limited space in kernel partition and increased size of KP compared to stock kernel |
| 15:00.23 | kerio | it's possible |
| 15:00.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourav: uBoot lives in kernel partition (cat /proc/mtd) and it's a 'header' to any default kernel attached and living in same partition |
| 15:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is the kernel uBoot boots by default |
| 15:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | both uBoot and the attached kernel come with uBoot package |
| 15:01.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | the standard uBoot package contains stock kernel |
| 15:02.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | this stock kernel will fail with your thumb system |
| 15:04.24 | sourav | okay got it |
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| 15:04.32 | FredrIQ|n900 | afaik there's even a version of uboot attached to kp in repositories |
| 15:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | so your options are a) don't use thumb binaries in your default root fs b) attach a KP51/2 to the uBoot header before flashing the thing to /dev/mtd3 c) make uBoot boot kernel from a zImage somewhere on NAND or eMMC or uSD |
| 15:04.41 | kerio | FredrIQ|n900: it's outdated |
| 15:04.59 | FredrIQ|n900 | hmmmmm ok |
| 15:05.19 | FredrIQ|n900 | @ kerio |
| 15:05.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed there been a uBoot+KP47 or something |
| 15:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that KP (whatever version it been) doesn't support thumb rootfs |
| 15:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'd need a up-to-date version of that |
| 15:06.35 | FIQ|n900 | yeah |
| 15:06.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | uBoot+KP52 |
| 15:06.49 | FIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 15:07.05 | sourav | yeah combo one |
| 15:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | would be the best solution |
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| 15:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | somebody should build and ship such pkg |
| 15:07.55 | sourav | nice idea |
| 15:08.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourav: yep, it'd solve your "problem" |
| 15:09.18 | sourav | not only mine but many others |
| 15:09.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/uboot-power/ |
| 15:09.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | maintainer: mag |
| 15:10.15 | sourav | yep |
| 15:10.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | see changelog ;-P |
| 15:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe pali could take maintainership of that package and do an update |
| 15:11.06 | sourav | it isn't been updated since 2010 |
| 15:11.20 | FIQ|n900 | sourav: it wont help you as of now |
| 15:11.33 | FIQ|n900 | due to outdated kp but yes |
| 15:12.22 | sourav | i will try to contact pali for pkg |
| 15:13.01 | sourav | but rightnow i need to restore my backup http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/backupmenu/1.2.0-1/ |
| 15:13.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourav: alternatively you could pull the sources and build the "binary pkg" yourself, with recent KP |
| 15:13.23 | sourav | its gives dependencies error |
| 15:13.30 | kerio | make sure you install a kernel that matches the modules in your backup |
| 15:14.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need same kernel you had when you made that backup |
| 15:14.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | BM doesn't backup the kernel itself, only the kernel modules |
| 15:14.29 | FIQ|n900 | ^ I found out that the hard way once... |
| 15:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you restore the "wrong" kernel modules, you earn a bootloop |
| 15:14.53 | FIQ|n900 | and a broken backupmenu |
| 15:14.54 | sourav | want these to be installed bootmenu, tar-gnu, i2c-tools, mtd-utils, libacl1 |
| 15:15.03 | FIQ|n900 | i.e. mandatory reflash needed |
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| 15:16.39 | sourav | is there anyway i can install BM and install these without apt-get updating |
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| 15:16.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably you could move away your /lib/modules, restore, the move /lib/modules back into place and do a depmod -a |
| 15:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | then move* |
| 15:18.04 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: speaking of backupmenu, why does "recovery console" just give a black screen? |
| 15:18.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you install same kernel you had before/when you did that backup, then restore, then install whatever kernel you like |
| 15:18.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: afaik it only works with powerkernel |
| 15:18.35 | kerio | FIQ|n900: recovery console is separate from backupmenu |
| 15:18.38 | FIQ|n900 | well I have kp |
| 15:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | stock kernel has no fb |
| 15:18.44 | kerio | and it needs a fbcon module |
| 15:18.59 | FIQ|n900 | kerio: hmm but it's a backupmenu option :p |
| 15:19.11 | kerio | it's a bootmenu option |
| 15:19.13 | kerio | a fbootmenu |
| 15:19.30 | FIQ|n900 | sec I'll reboot |
| 15:19.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: eh? bootmenu option? |
| 15:20.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui it's a function built in to backupmenu |
| 15:20.39 | sourav | that's root console |
| 15:20.45 | kerio | no, "Recovery console" is a separate boot menu entry |
| 15:21.02 | kerio | in the recovery-boot package |
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| 15:21.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 15:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | never looked into that |
| 15:21.24 | kerio | it's neat |
| 15:21.30 | kerio | it gives you a shell at the bootmenu level |
| 15:23.30 | sourav | anything on this http://pastebin.com/Uehfu0UK |
| 15:23.42 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:23.54 | FredrIQ|n900 | duh |
| 15:24.01 | FredrIQ|n900 | of course it works when I ask why it doesn't work |
| 15:24.20 | kerio | sourav: well... use apt |
| 15:24.26 | kerio | you're missing dependencies |
| 15:24.57 | sourav | yes i know so here no use of deb |
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| 15:38.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | souarv: you should install BM via HAM |
| 15:38.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | which would have resolved the dependencies |
| 15:38.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now you could install i2ctools |
| 15:38.45 | souarv | that's annoying but will have to do so |
| 15:38.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | to satisfy the loose dependencies |
| 15:39.03 | souarv | i have all the debs |
| 15:39.15 | souarv | dependencies deb |
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| 15:40.08 | souarv | can the maintainers integrate all dependencies in the single deb |
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| 15:40.20 | kerio | the whole point of package managers is that you don't have to do that |
| 15:40.29 | kerio | it would lead to some sort of linux DLL hell |
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| 15:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | souarv: however take care - i2ctools pkg preinstall will probably pop up a requester on H-D screen |
| 15:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it tends to "fail" for you when run via ssh login from PC |
| 15:42.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | also probably will fail unless you do run-standalone.sh dpkg ... |
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| 15:50.57 | souarv | thanks DocScrutinizer |
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| 15:52.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 16:07.13 | kerio | has no attached kernel flashed now |
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| 18:34.45 | Sc0rpius | http://www.businessinsider.com/sayonara-netbooks-asus-and-the-rest-wont-make-any-more-in-2013-2013-1 |
| 18:34.48 | Sc0rpius | worst, news, ever. |
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| 18:43.45 | Wulfe | not much of a surprise with the way tablet computing has been making its stand. |
| 18:44.15 | Wulfe | why buy a netbook when you can just get a tablet pc and just get a case with a blue tooth keyboard. |
| 18:44.57 | Wulfe | that is some sad new for the open pandora project though. |
| 18:45.23 | FIQ|n900 | how is openpandora related? |
| 18:45.38 | Wulfe | well it is a rather tiny netbook when you think about it. |
| 18:45.54 | FIQ|n900 | well yes |
| 18:45.56 | Wulfe | and if netbooks are getting obsoleted who would want to buy a mini netbook |
| 18:46.16 | FIQ|n900 | uh... |
| 18:46.24 | Wulfe | especialy since a android tablet really out does them anymore. |
| 18:47.15 | Wulfe | ofc then again the world thought maemo would die out to, yet here we are. |
| 18:55.56 | Sc0rpius | a tablet doesn't replace a netbook |
| 18:55.58 | Sc0rpius | an ultrabook does |
| 18:56.04 | kerio | the openpandora is a handheld console |
| 18:56.21 | Sc0rpius | the physical keyboard is way too important |
| 18:56.32 | Sc0rpius | that's why the N900 never dies... and netbooks never will! (well ultrabooks are fine replacements) |
| 18:57.40 | Wulfe | all tablet pc's carry bluetooth now and most have bluetooth keyboard cases if not a universal one that works with them, so tbh they can easily be made in to netbooks. |
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| 19:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | why "make sth into a netbook" when you can get a real netbook instead? |
| 19:25.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book it's not the consumer that decides he wants tablets, it's the industry that hypes tablets and consumers buy whatever the week's hype, until they notice it's a PITA to use that win8 crap UX and the unspeakable virtual keyboard for writing anything more demanding than a tweet |
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| 19:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the trend is towards a tertiary "pc" device for very defined small set of usecases. While primary and secondary devices will pretty much stay what they ever been: full size desktop PC or "laptop" for primary, and notebook/netbook for secondary use |
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| 19:30.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | for tertiary, e-books and tablets and whatnot else compete |
| 19:30.03 | Aoyagi | I don't understand how netbooks can be of any use to anyone. |
| 19:31.52 | ShadowJK | netbook is kinda cool, portable computer not dependent on ac socket, without android cripplings ;) |
| 19:33.25 | Aoyagi | And the addition over a regular small notebook is ...? ^^ |
| 19:33.48 | FIQ|n900 | n900 is my netbook |
| 19:33.49 | FIQ|n900 | np |
| 19:34.00 | Aoyagi | hah |
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| 19:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Aoyagi: dunno, I guess a netbook is defined as a small notebook |
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| 19:35.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe with some more "sophisticated" connectivity support |
| 19:35.11 | Aoyagi | I'm pretty sure "netbook" is defined by its low-class (and low powered) CPU, Atoms and alike. |
| 19:35.42 | Aoyagi | consults the interntet |
| 19:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh, and who's doing that definition? |
| 19:36.24 | Aoyagi | Hm. I was just being more specific than necessary. |
| 19:36.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably you'll have to ask those who originally use the term, anyway. Those will be the marketing drones |
| 19:36.41 | Aoyagi | small, lightweight, legacy-free, and inexpensive laptop computers. |
| 19:36.56 | Aoyagi | The "inexpensive" part is what I was talking about. :) |
| 19:37.04 | Aoyagi | (c) Wikipedia |
| 19:37.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 19:37.37 | Aoyagi | also http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/28/2012_year_netbooks_died/ |
| 19:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | so your question >><Aoyagi> And the addition over a regular small notebook is ...? ^^<< is rather meaningless, no? |
| 19:38.27 | Aoyagi | Well yeah, it was a rhetorical question :D |
| 19:39.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even that |
| 19:40.15 | Aoyagi | I'm guessing words like "useless" and "annoying" come to your mind. |
| 19:41.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | more like "irritating" |
| 19:41.18 | Aoyagi | Yeah... |
| 19:43.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | like "what's the advantage of an AK47 over a kalashnikov?" |
| 19:43.38 | Aoyagi | That doesn't make sense. |
| 19:43.41 | RST38h | There are multiple models of Kalashnikov machine gun |
| 19:43.46 | RST38h | So, do specify |
| 19:43.50 | Aoyagi | Oh. |
| 19:43.55 | Aoyagi | So it does make sense. |
| 19:45.02 | Aoyagi | But the internet says AK-47 = Kalashnikov...oh well, nevermind. |
| 19:46.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | it make as much or as little sense as your question did |
| 19:46.28 | Aoyagi | Note the word "regular" |
| 19:46.34 | RST38h | Internet actually says a lot if you know where to look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47#Variants |
| 19:47.26 | Aoyagi | Well, those aren't really designed by certain Kalashnikov, they were only based on that person's design. |
| 19:47.55 | Aoyagi | Except for some Saiga rifle |
| 19:49.21 | Aoyagi | But I'm not saying you're wrong, for all I know, you could be a gun freak :) |
| 19:49.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly ponders if seriously elaborating about a question stated as an example for meaningless, well that's trolling, is it? |
| 19:50.05 | RST38h | yawns, scrolls back, makes a Cpt Obvious face and informs the public that both "netbook" and "ultrabook" are Intel's marketing terms, rather well defined |
| 19:50.47 | RST38h | Down to screen dimensions even, if I remember correctly |
| 19:51.32 | Sc0rpius | I have a netbook and it's the ONLY device I take on the road |
| 19:51.39 | Sc0rpius | even if I'm visiting customers or whatever |
| 19:51.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I hope you agree that a question like "what's the addition in a 14" notebook over a regular notebook" is definitely nonsensical |
| 19:52.33 | Aoyagi | Of course, 14" is fairly regular. |
| 19:52.39 | Sc0rpius | that's HEAVY |
| 19:52.43 | Sc0rpius | anything > 2 kilos is HEAVY |
| 19:52.46 | Sc0rpius | that's why netbooks are so cool |
| 19:53.13 | Sc0rpius | I would replace my netbook with an Asus VivoBook 11.2, it's a touch ultrabook, very cool. |
| 19:53.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the next one joining in to answer an nonsense question |
| 19:53.57 | Sc0rpius | well I'm trying to make my point that anything >13" is useless |
| 19:54.00 | Sc0rpius | on the road |
| 19:54.08 | Sc0rpius | unless you want back pains |
| 19:54.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | who denied it? |
| 19:54.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | who asked for that wisdom? |
| 19:54.21 | RST38h | Sc0rpius <-- correct |
| 19:54.33 | Aoyagi | Meh, depends on your preferences. |
| 19:54.44 | RST38h | But do consider this little gem: |
| 19:55.14 | RST38h | For years now, Toshiba made full-specced notebooks that are well within both netbook and ultrabook dimensions |
| 19:55.38 | RST38h | So, effectively, you do not need to buy that measly CedarTrail-based ugly fuckling |
| 19:55.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess now Intel gonna sue them for not copying their ultrabook design ? |
| 19:56.04 | RST38h | You can buy a Core i7 based notebook that will have the same size |
| 19:56.08 | Sc0rpius | well not only Toshiba, have you heard of the HP Folio? |
| 19:56.12 | RST38h | Doc: No, why? |
| 19:56.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | just tried to anticipate the point |
| 19:56.26 | RST38h | Doc: For once, they simply renamed their portege series into ultrabooks now |
| 19:56.42 | Sc0rpius | though the HP Folio is 13" but it's less than 1 cm thick |
| 19:56.44 | RST38h | Doc: without changing much, just a little bit to match Intel's requirements |
| 19:57.16 | RST38h | Doc: Secondly, Intel can only make fuss if you call "ultrabook" somethign that does not satisfy their official specs |
| 19:58.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | pondering we came from [2013-01-01 19:34:45] <Sc0rpius> http://www.businessinsider.com/sayonara-netbooks-asus-and-the-rest-wont-make-any-more-in-2013-2013-1 :-/ |
| 19:59.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | this "discussion" seems to spin in pointless circles |
| 19:59.08 | Aoyagi | It's called conversion flow, isn't it? |
| 19:59.39 | Sc0rpius | haha well I agree the "debate" isn't going anywhere hehehehe |
| 20:00.04 | Sc0rpius | but I'm sad the netbooks won't be made anymore, I have one, I use it for everything |
| 20:00.20 | Sc0rpius | it's because somebody out there said "who would need a netbook anyway" |
| 20:00.30 | Sc0rpius | when you have a netbook, the question becomes: "who needs a laptop anyway" |
| 20:00.37 | RST38h | Doc: Well, endlessly discussing definitions is an ages-proven special olympics sport. |
| 20:00.47 | Aoyagi | Sc0rpius: Again, personal preferences. |
| 20:01.01 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: I need a small, light, powerful laptop |
| 20:01.04 | ShadowJK | Aoyagi; dunno, I just walked into store and told them I needed a machine with keyboard, screen and ethernet port that runs for 8 hours on battery |
| 20:01.16 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: I DO NOT need a CDT-based laptop, whatever you call it |
| 20:01.18 | ShadowJK | and only thing they could offer was the netbook :) |
| 20:01.26 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Should I elaborate? |
| 20:01.30 | Sc0rpius | well the most important thing to me is weight |
| 20:01.45 | Sc0rpius | I can even live with a Pentium 4 if it weighs less than 2 kilos |
| 20:01.56 | RST38h | You can't. Do not fool yourself. |
| 20:01.59 | Aoyagi | ShadowJK: Small shop, wasn't it? There's quite a lot of laptops with battery life 8 hours. Advertised anyway... |
| 20:02.02 | Sc0rpius | after weight (and size), then in my opinion comes power |
| 20:02.25 | ShadowJK | Aoyagi; they're usually obscenely expensive though |
| 20:02.28 | Sc0rpius | as I said, I have a netbook with an Intel Atom which you should know might be very slow and I use it to go to the office |
| 20:02.43 | Sc0rpius | and I leave the job-assigned laptop at home |
| 20:02.48 | ShadowJK | Yeah mine's atom too |
| 20:03.09 | ShadowJK | As a bonus, it doesn't sound like a vaccuum cleaner like notebooks ;) |
| 20:03.23 | Aoyagi | Yeah, you pay for power than is incomparable to the cheap trash used in the low-end small notebook, a.k.a netbooks. |
| 20:03.34 | ShadowJK | The tablet is of course always silent, but lacks ethernet port |
| 20:04.12 | Aoyagi | But again, personal preferences. I'm just saying that people don't want them anymore. You two are in fact first people praising the machines I've met :D |
| 20:05.06 | Sc0rpius | if you need power, then you're using the wrong OS |
| 20:05.22 | Sc0rpius | my netbook has Lubuntu, runs Libreoffice completely smooth, I give presentations with it every week |
| 20:05.27 | Sc0rpius | it nevers gets hot |
| 20:05.31 | Sc0rpius | it never makes noise |
| 20:05.32 | ShadowJK | It's vastly superior to my previous portable machine, a desktop mAtx P3-1Ghz that fit into a backpack. Had to borrow screen at sites though lol |
| 20:05.37 | Sc0rpius | weighs like 1.5 kilos |
| 20:05.43 | Sc0rpius | unbeatable. |
| 20:06.01 | Sc0rpius | and the battery says it lasts 10 hours but in practice lasts 8 hours |
| 20:06.12 | Sc0rpius | so I don't even plug it while I'm in the office |
| 20:06.26 | Sc0rpius | it's unbeatable it's the best thing they have ever created: netbooks |
| 20:07.04 | Sc0rpius | now the laptop: |
| 20:07.11 | Sc0rpius | I walk 2 blocks and the back pain is unbearable |
| 20:07.16 | Aoyagi | Can your Lubuntu run Adobe products and games? |
| 20:07.16 | Sc0rpius | it gets hot after 2 minutes being on |
| 20:07.20 | ShadowJK | netbooks and tablets are nice also in the way that it has dampened the upgrade race and annual ripoff :) |
| 20:07.21 | Sc0rpius | it sounds like a vaccum cleaner |
| 20:07.37 | Sc0rpius | why would I want to run games at the office... |
| 20:07.55 | Aoyagi | Oh? So why carry the machine out of the office at all? |
| 20:08.01 | Sc0rpius | the only Adobe feature I would need is to edit non protected PDFs and there are several Linux tools for htat |
| 20:08.15 | Sc0rpius | oh well you need to, depends on the job you have |
| 20:08.18 | Aoyagi | Well, some people actually work in Photoshop, Illustrator and Premiere. |
| 20:08.26 | Sc0rpius | if you go to customers all the time, you need it portable |
| 20:08.34 | kerio | has a 17" laptop |
| 20:08.34 | Sc0rpius | well I'm not, I'm not a graphic designer |
| 20:08.37 | kerio | haters gonna hate |
| 20:08.54 | Sc0rpius | for games and stuff, I have a desktop at home |
| 20:08.59 | Aoyagi | And I can't imagine any scenario when you HAVE to carry your notebook or whatever from work. |
| 20:09.08 | Sc0rpius | two monitors, quad core, latest nVidia GTX, etc. |
| 20:09.25 | Sc0rpius | which is the computer I'm using to type these letters right now |
| 20:09.33 | Sc0rpius | these "lines" |
| 20:09.41 | Sc0rpius | what? |
| 20:09.51 | Sc0rpius | well if you're a Presales Engineer |
| 20:10.00 | Sc0rpius | you have to go to customers all the time to give presentations all the time to SELL |
| 20:10.20 | Sc0rpius | so the other people in the company can work |
| 20:10.20 | kerio | Sc0rpius: libreoffice on n900 |
| 20:10.27 | kerio | with the AV cable |
| 20:10.45 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: If you go to customers, tiny low-cost LCD screen used in netbooks will not cut it |
| 20:10.46 | ShadowJK | it'd be cool with maemo4 UI :) |
| 20:10.49 | Sc0rpius | the problem with that kerio is battery |
| 20:11.03 | Sc0rpius | RST38h, you have a video beam with you also |
| 20:11.06 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Neither will the rudimentary keyboard when you have to type something |
| 20:11.09 | Sc0rpius | so you project the screen in a wall |
| 20:11.19 | Sc0rpius | that's another suitcase you have to carry along |
| 20:11.28 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: And no, customers do not like Powerpoint loading for 30 seconds |
| 20:11.44 | Aoyagi | Heh, there are better things to give presentations than netbooks. Actually it's one of the few uses of tablets I can think of. |
| 20:11.51 | Sc0rpius | usually I load everything and suspend the netbook with everything ready before I leave the office |
| 20:11.52 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Well, I carry just one suitcase with a light notebook |
| 20:11.58 | kerio | Sc0rpius: 8 hours, when it was new |
| 20:12.19 | Sc0rpius | my battery with 3G lasts 4 hours or so. |
| 20:12.23 | Sc0rpius | (the N900) |
| 20:12.25 | Aoyagi | Sc0rpius: But the main thing is that it suits you best, me thinks. |
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| 20:12.28 | kerio | oh you mean the n900, right |
| 20:12.32 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: REAL notebook with decent quality 12-13" screen that weights 1.2kg |
| 20:12.44 | kerio | well, without using data it lasts much longer for me |
| 20:12.47 | Sc0rpius | yeah like the Asus VivoBook :) |
| 20:12.58 | kerio | RST38h: macbook air, like linus |
| 20:13.00 | Aoyagi | Yeah, my "small" notebook (Toshiba Portege, in fact) is pretty light too. |
| 20:13.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Aoyagi: it's not like nobody wants netbooks anymore, it's just nobody can make money with them anymore |
| 20:13.22 | Sc0rpius | GOOD POINT |
| 20:13.26 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: There is no place for netbooks in this picture |
| 20:13.32 | Aoyagi | DocScrutinizer05: How's that a difference? |
| 20:13.36 | Aoyagi | I mean.. |
| 20:13.44 | Aoyagi | What's the difference... |
| 20:13.45 | Sc0rpius | the thing is, the "hype" right now are tablets and I really ask "why would anyone need a tablet" |
| 20:13.51 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Unless you are a terrible miser who just can't bring himself to spend extra $300 |
| 20:14.02 | kerio | netbooks suck, anyway |
| 20:14.07 | Sc0rpius | you know I was one of the morons that got an iPad 2 and also an Android tablet |
| 20:14.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Aoyagi: the difference is in first pirson |
| 20:14.12 | RST38h | Hehe |
| 20:14.18 | Sc0rpius | I only use the iPad to play bingo on Facebook, that's all |
| 20:14.20 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: So which one are you still using? |
| 20:14.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | like 2me" ves "you" |
| 20:14.29 | FredrIQ|n900 | the reason is windows |
| 20:14.30 | Sc0rpius | and I haven't turned on the Android tablet in MONTHS |
| 20:14.33 | kerio | they have a small screen size, a small keyboard size, and they're still fairly thick |
| 20:14.37 | FredrIQ|n900 | @ nobody can make a profit |
| 20:14.40 | kerio | Sc0rpius: sell it |
| 20:14.58 | Sc0rpius | so I still can't figure out a use for the tablets I own |
| 20:15.06 | Sc0rpius | except for playing bingo on Facebook :/ |
| 20:15.06 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Android pads are actually good for watching movies |
| 20:15.22 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: probably for reading too, I guess |
| 20:15.23 | Sc0rpius | I like to watch movie in my big LCD screen in my bedroom |
| 20:15.29 | FredrIQ|n900 | and playing games |
| 20:15.38 | Aoyagi | DocScrutinizer05: Could you elaborate? All I see is "them". |
| 20:15.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Aoyagi: and don't tell me that's again been one of your "rhetorical questions" |
| 20:15.48 | Sc0rpius | I just read when I do #2 |
| 20:15.50 | Aoyagi | No, it is not. |
| 20:15.56 | Sc0rpius | and I have magazines in the bathroom for that hehe |
| 20:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Aoyagi: you know, bees, flowers.... |
| 20:16.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 20:16.28 | RST38h | Sc0rpius: Can't tear pages out of a tablet, can you? =) |
| 20:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't go to explain maket and life at large to you |
| 20:16.33 | Sc0rpius | well there's this cool card game (like Magic) in the iPad called "Ascension" that can be played online also, that's another use |
| 20:16.38 | Aoyagi | Right. |
| 20:16.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think my statement been as crisp and clear as it could get |
| 20:17.04 | Sc0rpius | read the article, it really nails why netbooks aren't made anymore |
| 20:17.10 | FIQ|n900 | mtg |
| 20:17.13 | Aoyagi | So you claim that the fact that people don't want (ergo don't buy) netbooks isn't, in fact, the reason as of why aren't they profitable anymore. |
| 20:17.27 | Sc0rpius | and it's because the market of them doesn't exist. Who wanted a netbook already got one and it's not gonna replace it in at least 4 years |
| 20:17.28 | Aoyagi | Is that correct? |
| 20:18.48 | Aoyagi | Or did that "nobody can make money with them" expression mean that "nobody can use them to work and therefore make money"? |
| 20:19.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | more and more feels like getting trolled |
| 20:19.18 | Sc0rpius | I should take a shower :( |
| 20:19.44 | Aoyagi | Strange, I'm getting exactly that feeling. |
| 20:20.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, this been the ultimate troll answer |
| 20:20.21 | *** join/#maemo ColdFyre (~lenny@c-98-248-56-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:20.25 | Aoyagi | Especially since this is a second time you've evaded an answer. |
| 20:20.33 | Aoyagi | an answer = answering |
| 20:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | FU, I answer whatever I like |
| 20:20.58 | Aoyagi | Alrighty. |
| 20:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the definition "no answer"==trolling is a troll's definition |
| 20:22.09 | Aoyagi | sighs |
| 20:22.14 | Aoyagi | I've never said that. |
| 20:22.40 | *** mode/#maemo [+o RST38h] by ChanServ |
| 20:22.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 20:23.07 | FIQ|n900 | incoming kick? |
| 20:23.13 | FIQ|n900 | "pending" |
| 20:29.24 | Aoyagi | RST38h: Since you have activated the "scary op" mode and therefore have the final word, can you tell me if I was trolling? Yeah, that would be great. |
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| 20:32.27 | kerio | why does everyone have ops but me? :( |
| 20:32.46 | FIQ|n900 | kerio: don't worry, I don't have op either |
| 20:44.24 | *** mode/#maemo [-o RST38h] by ChanServ |
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| 22:31.24 | FIQ|n900 | lol |
| 22:31.33 | FIQ|n900 | battery died, swapped it |
| 22:31.43 | FIQ|n900 | "great, clock reset" |
| 22:31.50 | kerio | :D |
| 22:31.53 | FIQ|n900 | then I realized it *is* 1st jan today |
| 22:31.58 | FIQ|n900 | :p |
| 22:31.58 | kerio | only for a little longer, though |
| 22:32.03 | FIQ|n900 | yeah |
| 22:32.07 | FIQ|n900 | 29min for me |
| 22:32.19 | FIQ|n900 | *28 |
| 22:32.21 | kerio | CET represent! o/ |
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| 22:53.54 | merlin1991 | o/ |
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| 23:08.49 | kerio | it feels like the majority of people here are on UTC or UTC+1 |
| 23:08.56 | kerio | i wonder if it's just confirmation bias |
| 23:13.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | confirmation bias? the endocrine form of self fulfilling prophecy? |
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| 23:14.51 | kerio | well, not quite |
| 23:15.11 | kerio | i live in UTC+1, and so i tend to notice discussions that happen when i'm awake a lot more |
| 23:15.27 | kerio | and those are, ofc, mostly betwen people living in timezones close to mine |
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| 23:22.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, so an externally introduced causal self fulfilling prophecy |
| 23:23.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually same effect is caused by selective attention to the things that prove what you're assuming |
| 23:25.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it this way: in USA the N900 never been that popular, for very real reasons |
| 23:30.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so your observation is probably correct, even while you're not watching during US timezone 'business' hours |
| 23:31.17 | kerio | hm, you're right, it's not confirmation bias |
| 23:31.26 | kerio | i'm not actively looking for evidence that supports my thesis |
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