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| 00:14.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Corsac: thanks, too late but thanks |
| 00:20.30 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: blocking a move outside US is one thing... coming up with an as totally sane as idea to move to china is another... right? |
| 00:21.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | oarschluuuch, sprich deutsch |
| 00:23.31 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: sorry, was washing up. |
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| 00:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: scott shut up! |
| 00:24.41 | SpeedEvil | did you actually have a specific use in mins for it? |
| 00:24.43 | SpeedEvil | mind |
| 00:31.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: >>with an as totally sane as idea to move to<< SORRY' |
| 00:32.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: I'm drunk, sorry! ask me tomorrow |
| 00:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: 11Wlaser |
| 00:37.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 00:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: sorry, bI asked you |
| 00:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/b// |
| 00:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnaqck |
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| 00:40.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 00:40.46 | infobot | :), DocScrutinizer05 |
| 00:42.44 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
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| 01:02.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: how's life? |
| 01:02.44 | SpeedEvil | OK. toothache still a bit. |
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| 01:39.47 | unifly | hi |
| 01:43.52 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, take it out with a rock like Castaway. |
| 01:44.21 | SpeedEvil | I was pondering using the dremel |
| 01:44.35 | SpeedEvil | however, it mostly got better |
| 01:44.38 | GeneralAntilles | I started oil pulling a few days ago. |
| 01:44.47 | SpeedEvil | so I am going to visit a dentist |
| 01:45.03 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: lots of stuff said about that. |
| 01:45.11 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, we'll see. |
| 01:45.19 | SpeedEvil | if you find it useful, great. |
| 01:48.21 | GeneralAntilles | The detox idea is bullshit, but my dentist has recommended it based on improvements he's seen in other patients. |
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| 01:48.55 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, what's the occasion? |
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| 02:39.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: errrSorry? |
| 02:44.01 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: I belive he asked for the occasion for your party :D |
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| 03:56.42 | ShadowJK | heh, agps used 12.8kbyte of data during an hour of driving around in car |
| 03:58.52 | unclouded | thank you to everyone who helped me with my Debian from u-boot. the watchdog is now working and I wrote up what I did at http://wiki.debian.org/MaemoAndSqueeze in case it saves any time for others |
| 04:03.37 | unclouded | if anyone ends up using that page then I'd be very interested in any commands I left out or got in the wrong order so I can correct it |
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| 04:56.17 | ManoftheSea | unclouded: cool. Does it *Require* u-boot? Can multiboot not do the trick? |
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| 05:22.46 | unclouded | I imagine it would work with multi-boot too. does multi-boot flash the selected kernel to mtd3 on each boot or did I mis-read that? |
| 05:29.06 | ManoftheSea | It looks like one of the references you had, demonstrated a configuration for multi-boot. Yes, it flashes when it changes, as I understand it. |
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| 05:37.00 | unclouded | I think the configuration for Pali's u-boot is the same format as for multi-boot? |
| 05:38.39 | unclouded | I'm not sure because I'm a bit new to Maemo |
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| 09:10.34 | int_ua | Can anyone check the /home/user/.config/hildon-desktop/status-menu.conf ? I desperately need it |
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| 09:18.13 | MetalGearSolid | I don't have a status-menu.conf there |
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| 09:22.49 | int_ua | ok, thanks |
| 09:23.43 | int_ua | Currently my status-menu and clock won't start and I'm digging the syslog to find out why |
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| 10:24.18 | Guest85059 | Hi, is there a command line interface to change the presence options from e.g. online to offline? |
| 10:24.55 | kerio | Guest85059: it's probably a dbus message |
| 10:25.12 | kerio | ~phone-control |
| 10:25.15 | kerio | hrmpf |
| 10:25.17 | kerio | ~phonecontrol |
| 10:25.17 | infobot | it has been said that phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control |
| 10:25.30 | kerio | Guest85059: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Set_presence |
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| 10:38.30 | Guest85059 | Thanks, kerio. |
| 10:38.38 | Guest85059 | I have some issues with that tough: |
| 10:38.42 | Guest85059 | ~ $ dbus-send --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.Telepathy.MissionControl /org/freedesktop/Telepathy/MissionControl org.freedesktop.Telepathy.MissionControl.SetPresence uint32:2 string:"Offline" |
| 10:38.43 | Guest85059 | Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Telepathy.MissionControl was not provided by any .service files |
| 10:38.45 | Guest85059 | ~ $ |
| 10:38.45 | infobot | hmm... $ is a dollar sign |
| 10:39.26 | Guest85059 | Do you know which package provides qdbus |
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| 10:44.41 | Guest85059 | The python script in the linked thread works, cool :-) |
| 10:44.46 | Guest85059 | Thanks again kerio |
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| 11:03.02 | dimir | How to write good code: http://xkcd.com/844/ |
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| 11:39.52 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: moving to china but not to EU... |
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| 14:01.37 | int_ua | $ apt-cache search status | grep -v l10n | grep status |
| 14:01.53 | int_ua | Looks like we are missing a naming convention |
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| 17:58.46 | DocScrutinizer06 | chem|st: I just had a chance to understand what you're talking about when I received a mail from nybauer sent 2012-12-22_18:43. I didn't even know about all that before, and that's symptomatic for what's wrong with the whole operation |
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| 18:01.18 | DocScrutinizer06 | I.E. the mail informing 'us' about such plans to maybe move tmo to HK-located server came in ~30min ago |
| 18:01.27 | kerio | what the shit, HK? |
| 18:01.31 | kerio | how about no |
| 18:01.33 | DocScrutinizer06 | indeed |
| 18:02.18 | ShadowJK | why hk.. |
| 18:02.29 | teotwaki | fuck, I'll pay for the server |
| 18:02.30 | ShadowJK | i thought bandwidth was expensive in asia |
| 18:02.40 | int_ua | cheap prices? |
| 18:02.51 | teotwaki | int_ua: cheaper than 30/mo? |
| 18:03.10 | int_ua | How would I know) |
| 18:03.18 | teotwaki | int_ua: france has the cheapest hosting in the world. |
| 18:03.38 | ShadowJK | France, Netherlands, Germany, even UK |
| 18:03.50 | ShadowJK | US has lots of cheap hosting too |
| 18:03.56 | kerio | and it doesn't require data to pass through the great firewall nor through echelon |
| 18:04.07 | int_ua | echelon? |
| 18:04.09 | teotwaki | well, I've not found cheaper than 18/mo anywhere else than france for a full dedi. |
| 18:04.18 | DocScrutinizer06 | the complete failure sits in the sentence "During next Board meeting it's planned to address the [...] selection of hosting provider" |
| 18:04.19 | ShadowJK | Last time I checked, asia hosting had the decimal point one position more expensive than elsewhere :P |
| 18:04.51 | DocScrutinizer06 | Boerd has no technical background to do a proper selection of any such hosting provider |
| 18:05.28 | teotwaki | Depending on the size of the server, we may have a (free) ability to host it. |
| 18:05.37 | ShadowJK | they'll end up buying a static-only hosting you mean? :P |
| 18:05.42 | int_ua | isn't it a choice based on pure numerical comparisons? |
| 18:06.07 | ShadowJK | lol no |
| 18:06.14 | DocScrutinizer06 | Board obviously not even has the technical knowledge about what's needed to host any part of the maemo infra |
| 18:06.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | yet they decide on such stuff in closed meetings |
| 18:06.40 | kerio | who's in the hf board? |
| 18:06.59 | teotwaki | shit |
| 18:07.15 | teotwaki | connecticut: +129% gun sales since the murders |
| 18:08.10 | ShadowJK | At the very least you want to check webhostingtalk.com for positive/negative reviews/comments/threads/post about a potential provider. Finding no posts at all about a provider is a "run, run fast" sign. |
| 18:09.47 | DocScrutinizer06 | and the worst thing about that whole unholy hosting 'discussion' inside board: They seem to completely forget about administration, again suggesting council should come up with a list of voluntary casual admins to do technical server system administration |
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| 18:11.04 | ShadowJK | Well if they buy some random webspace on a shared server that allows 1 vhost and 1 sql db (as long as mysql doesnt start using actual cpu and ram), and ftp-only access, there wont be much administration to do :P |
| 18:11.13 | DocScrutinizer06 | and comparing prices of low-level dedicated server or even vserver hosting with other offers that are actually about managed hosts |
| 18:11.14 | ShadowJK | (and not much of a functional tmo either) |
| 18:13.36 | DocScrutinizer06 | then the constant rambling and fud about how insanely high the Nemein hosting will be, while we got not even any quoation from them - neglecting that any such service in the past included administration (of whatever quality) |
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| 18:15.21 | ShadowJK | One of the things Mer really spent effort on was cutting the stupid stuff out of infra to get hosting costs down :) |
| 18:15.22 | DocScrutinizer06 | basically any hosting will consist of 10% technical services cost (hw leasing, colocation, traffic, energy...) and 90% sysop costs |
| 18:19.50 | ShadowJK | Has anyone of countl/board ever managed a opensource or other community project... |
| 18:19.54 | DocScrutinizer06 | well, for now it seems Board has decided to move tmo to the infra Nokia donated to community, and thus consolidate stuff - brillint decision. Finally! :-) |
| 18:20.12 | kerio | phew |
| 18:20.15 | kerio | so... business as usual? |
| 18:20.20 | kerio | for how long? |
| 18:20.29 | DocScrutinizer06 | you never know what's next |
| 18:21.39 | ShadowJK | Because like, even if a volunteer admin is found to admin the cheap HK server, I bet it only takes a year or two before he decides to seize all control over the server for his or her own agenda, and then the budget datacentre offers two choices: a) do nothing b) terminate and erase server |
| 18:21.51 | ShadowJK | then databases and forum is lost :) |
| 18:21.54 | *** join/#maemo tadzik (tjs@feather.perl6.nl) |
| 18:21.59 | tadzik | hello |
| 18:22.17 | DocScrutinizer06 | ShadowJK: yup |
| 18:22.49 | tadzik | do you know if there's a way to access alarms from outside the GUI applications? Some library, dbus, database of them? |
| 18:23.02 | DocScrutinizer06 | ShadowJK: *i* basically managed openmoko infra, at least 'passively' |
| 18:23.35 | DocScrutinizer06 | the actual management been done by the professional admins Roh and Gismo which I suggested to Board |
| 18:23.49 | DocScrutinizer06 | they decided to ignore that completely |
| 18:24.04 | ShadowJK | I mean the political and people-interaction issues become pretty horrendous with community-owned infra quite quickly |
| 18:24.32 | DocScrutinizer06 | you definitely can't have "community-owned infra" |
| 18:25.02 | kerio | tadzik: alarmclient can manipulate alarmd alarms |
| 18:25.16 | DocScrutinizer06 | I understood Board realized that and appointed me for "owner" of the infra |
| 18:25.16 | kerio | but it's a lower level than the alarms you set in the clock app |
| 18:25.34 | ShadowJK | it's pretty cool how Meego which we all loved to hate, managed to be more transparent and open than this our new hf :) |
| 18:25.43 | DocScrutinizer06 | seem I fell for a misconception |
| 18:25.45 | *** join/#maemo Natanaiel (~Unknown@unaffiliated/natanaiel) |
| 18:25.58 | Natanaiel | my n900 doesn't update anymore |
| 18:25.59 | tadzik | kerio: it's okay, I want a Qt app to set an alarm |
| 18:26.00 | Natanaiel | why? |
| 18:26.13 | kerio | Natanaiel: with HAM? |
| 18:26.24 | Natanaiel | kerio: HAM? |
| 18:26.32 | kerio | "Application Manager" |
| 18:26.39 | Natanaiel | yeah |
| 18:26.54 | kerio | the nokia gpg keys expired, and HAM is a fickle bitch |
| 18:27.08 | kerio | there's no real fix except to use apt |
| 18:27.38 | kerio | but it's not really a substitute |
| 18:27.48 | kerio | it requires more knowledge of how maemo works, for instance |
| 18:28.00 | kerio | Natanaiel: what are you trying to update? |
| 18:28.06 | DocScrutinizer06 | redpill? |
| 18:28.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: i'm not sure there's a setting to ignore gpg keys |
| 18:28.31 | DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: you should volunteer to find out about redpill and how to exploit it for that |
| 18:28.33 | kerio | (if so, community-ssu-enabler should enable it i suppose) |
| 18:28.51 | kerio | i don't like being volunteered to work on HAM D: |
| 18:28.53 | DocScrutinizer06 | as a stop-gap solution |
| 18:28.58 | kerio | k, fine |
| 18:29.21 | *** join/#maemo unclouded (~neil@2001:4428:200:80fc:9566:dba2:d15b:f8f5) |
| 18:29.39 | kerio | by the way, does nokia let us rehost the maemo repos? |
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| 18:29.45 | *** join/#maemo ludens (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ludens) |
| 18:29.46 | kerio | the ones on downloads.maemo.nokia.com |
| 18:29.47 | DocScrutinizer06 | a) find out if stock HAM allows redpill. b) set up instructions how to enable and configure it |
| 18:30.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: you mean add that specific configuration to community-ssu-enabler right? |
| 18:30.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: a very good question that got some attention some 2 or 3 days ago 'behind the scenes' |
| 18:31.05 | DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: I mean find a working procedure for everybody on how to re-enable HAM-based update |
| 18:31.12 | kerio | ...actually, i think that right now it's impossible to install cssu |
| 18:31.17 | kerio | from a stock device |
| 18:31.21 | *** join/#maemo ekze (~nyan@bakaekze.ru) |
| 18:31.26 | ShadowJK | :s |
| 18:31.27 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: you should test it when your new n900 arrives |
| 18:31.38 | DocScrutinizer06 | my new n900? |
| 18:31.40 | kerio | ShadowJK: because of the 1.3.1 update, which is OTA only |
| 18:31.55 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: the one that fmg is supposed to buy in your stead? |
| 18:32.09 | DocScrutinizer06 | luckily we got 1.3.1 updates in cssu as well |
| 18:32.28 | DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: I don't see that happen |
| 18:32.37 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: like, hosted by cssu? |
| 18:32.44 | kerio | then it should still be installable |
| 18:33.22 | DocScrutinizer06 | yep, the security fixes got delivered via cssu first, only later nokia shipped an official update called 1.3.1 which basically obsoletes those cssu patches |
| 18:33.54 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 18:34.37 | DocScrutinizer06 | that's why cssu howto-install clearly states that you need *either* 1.3 or 1.3.1 to install cssu |
| 18:35.32 | DocScrutinizer06 | you could say Nokia Pr1.3.1 is a backport of cssu to stock ;-D |
| 18:35.58 | kerio | hrmpf, enabling "show all packages" with extras-devel enabled is a bad idea |
| 18:36.07 | DocScrutinizer06 | hahaha |
| 18:36.57 | DocScrutinizer06 | cya |
| 18:37.14 | *** join/#maemo ekze-nyan (~nyan@bakaekze.ru) |
| 18:37.20 | kerio | how do i see the total cpu time used by a process? |
| 18:37.27 | kerio | i still have the stupid top |
| 18:37.38 | *** join/#maemo ekze (~nyan@bakaekze.ru) |
| 18:38.21 | DocScrutinizer06 | time+ |
| 18:38.44 | kerio | no, i meant a currently-running process |
| 18:39.05 | *** join/#maemo ekze (~nyan@bakaekze.ru) |
| 18:43.45 | kerio | hm... |
| 18:43.56 | kerio | the install of something from downloads.maemo.nokia.com succeeded |
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| 18:45.18 | *** join/#maemo Jaded (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 18:52.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: i think i see the problem |
| 18:53.30 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: i can't really test it, though |
| 18:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so please elaborate |
| 18:55.13 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 18:55.23 | kerio | hrmpf, i can't get an install to fail here |
| 18:56.51 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hold on, i'm trying to get an actual error message |
| 18:59.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ok so... HAM's idea of package priority is called a "domain" |
| 18:59.35 | kerio | a package is in a certain domain based on the key it's signed with and the repository it's in |
| 18:59.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 18:59.57 | kerio | each domain has a certain priority, and packages can't move to a domain with a lower priority due to an upgrade |
| 19:00.47 | kerio | what can end up failing is that some packages, installed, can't be upgraded because they belong to the nokia domain but the new version is in the unidentified domain |
| 19:00.51 | kerio | because of the key error |
| 19:00.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and 999 has some special meaning for priority iirc |
| 19:01.13 | kerio | 1001 has, actually, but that's an apt thing, i'm not sure if it applies to HAM |
| 19:02.07 | kerio | for reference, the latest community-ssu-enabler adds the cssu repos as domains with a trust level (sorry, it's not called priority) between 700 and 703 |
| 19:02.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | a domain with expired or invalid key losing its priority |
| 19:02.42 | kerio | the "stock" maemo-extras is at 200, ovi at 400, nokia-certified at 400, nokia-system at 600 |
| 19:03.06 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but it's weird, because catalogues also specify a domain |
| 19:03.11 | kerio | and that should apply regardless of key... |
| 19:03.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nice investigation |
| 19:04.07 | kerio | a possible way to fix that, but i can't test it because of course i can't upgrade to anything - bleeding edge yo - would be to enable redpill mode and disable the domain check |
| 19:04.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I think you might ask jaffa and MohammadAG |
| 19:04.47 | kerio | aka enter the HAM settings and untick "Ignore packages from wrong domains" |
| 19:04.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | (redpill domain check) that's what I meant |
| 19:04.55 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 19:06.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | we honestly schould instruct all n900 users to upgrade to cssu-s at least |
| 19:06.42 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we'd have to check if the hidden settings apply even without redpill mode enabled |
| 19:06.59 | kerio | but enabling that setting is kinda unsafe ofc |
| 19:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 19:07.26 | kerio | anyway, you can enable redpill mode on every PR, you have to edit a file in ~/.something |
| 19:08.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought that got dropped in ~PR1.2 HAM |
| 19:08.04 | *** join/#maemo Jaffa (~andrew@Maemo/community/contributor/Jaffa) |
| 19:08.06 | tadzik | crap. I set an alarm with libalarm, and now it keeps going off, while not visible in alarm-ui :D |
| 19:08.18 | Jaffa | Evening all |
| 19:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: hi! :-D |
| 19:09.00 | kerio | tadzik: alarmclient |
| 19:09.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 19:09.15 | kerio | alarmd goes beyond alarm-ui |
| 19:09.16 | tadzik | I can't even poweroff |
| 19:09.26 | tadzik | what a daemon |
| 19:09.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you can't poweroff if a alarm event is scheduled for next ~3min I guess |
| 19:10.01 | kerio | it powers off and then boots immediately to make sure you get the alarm |
| 19:10.09 | kerio | oh, maybe it doesn't power off at all |
| 19:10.39 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you can check it on your vanilla n900 i suppose |
| 19:10.51 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode follow the instructions in the last part of that page |
| 19:10.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I probably can do that - not today though |
| 19:10.58 | tadzik | I'm doomed. I can't even turn this shit off now |
| 19:11.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: use alarmclient |
| 19:11.31 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'm not sure if he ignored me or what |
| 19:11.34 | tadzik | DocScrutinizer05: I can't even open a terminal. This thing goes on as soon as I turn it off |
| 19:11.39 | tadzik | kerio: see above |
| 19:11.47 | kerio | tadzik: ssh? |
| 19:11.51 | tadzik | yeah, I'll have to |
| 19:12.15 | tadzik | if I figure out how to turn on wifi in 1 second |
| 19:12.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't open a xterm? why? |
| 19:12.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you scheduled a recurring alarm, every second? LOL |
| 19:13.34 | tadzik | apparently, yeah |
| 19:13.41 | tadzik | I just copypasted the example from http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Alarm_Framework |
| 19:14.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you move the alarm requester/screen to background via ctrl-backspace? |
| 19:14.04 | tadzik | either I accidentally changed some lines, or it's a nasty piece of code, this one |
| 19:14.12 | tadzik | no, that doesn't work |
| 19:14.25 | tadzik | power button doesn't work either |
| 19:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | open xterm via ctl-shift-x? |
| 19:14.48 | tadzik | alarmclient -c should remove all events |
| 19:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | was it ctrl-shift-x? or t? |
| 19:14.53 | tadzik | maybe I'll be able to type that |
| 19:15.29 | tadzik | oh god yes |
| 19:15.38 | tadzik | I need a watchdog doing that |
| 19:15.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 19:15.59 | tadzik | alarmclient -c removed all alarms |
| 19:16.09 | tadzik | I hope there wasn't anything important there |
| 19:16.20 | tadzik | it removed 5, I knew of 3 |
| 19:16.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | some might have been birthdays or sth |
| 19:16.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | update also has an alarm |
| 19:17.09 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@a88-112-164-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:18.03 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@cst-prg-55-29.cust.vodafone.cz) |
| 19:21.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what did you want me to ask Jaffa about? |
| 19:22.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM |
| 19:22.10 | kerio | but why, specifically? |
| 19:22.15 | Jaffa | Old school. Been a while since I touched that |
| 19:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, about how all that crap works |
| 19:23.34 | kerio | hah |
| 19:23.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: seems we got increasing number of users reporting issues with expired signing keys in *.maemo.nokia.com |
| 19:23.54 | RST38h | +1 |
| 19:24.38 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-5-56-244-117.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think this needs some in-depth investigation and suggestions how to "fix" stuff |
| 19:24.41 | freemangordon | + it is impossible to do OTA update from PR 1.x to PR1.3 |
| 19:25.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: If you could lend a helping and and share some of your knowledge, this would be much appreciated |
| 19:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | helping hand* |
| 19:26.00 | kerio | i'm not sure that HAM checks the signing keys explicitly, it doesn't appear to do so from my logs |
| 19:26.04 | kerio | so it's got to be a domain issue |
| 19:26.09 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: Sure. Immediate thought is encoding a workaround in the CSSU HAM/apt. |
| 19:26.12 | *** join/#maemo Guest85059 (~rd@p57B480C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:26.20 | Jaffa | kerio: Keys are probably checked by apt-worker |
| 19:26.33 | kerio | Jaffa: yeah but it doesn't complain, for "normal" packages |
| 19:26.51 | freemangordon | Jaffa: sure, but what about those without CSSU? |
| 19:27.02 | kerio | freemangordon: clearly, they're irrelevant |
| 19:27.12 | freemangordon | kerio: what? |
| 19:27.12 | kerio | >:D |
| 19:27.47 | kerio | actually, once we get hold of all the repos, we can just re-sign the packages with the maemo.org key |
| 19:27.59 | kerio | ...actually that would still not work |
| 19:28.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think council can push an official notice strongly suggesting that *all* users move to cssu |
| 19:28.28 | freemangordon | kerio: the point is that CSSU (for example) of HF may want to push a package informing n900 users about CSSU existance |
| 19:28.28 | kerio | freemangordon: to fix this properly, you need HAM to know the new key, you need the new key to be in the keychain, and you need the packages to be signed with that key |
| 19:28.31 | Jaffa | freemangordon: Well, without Nokia fixing the key, transferring the domain or similar - I'm not sure there's anything else you can do |
| 19:28.51 | kerio | Jaffa: you can't fix the key |
| 19:28.57 | kerio | the key is expired, the devices know that |
| 19:29.15 | kerio | if the problem is the HAM domain, which i think it is |
| 19:29.17 | Jaffa | kerio: I meant Nokia pushing an update to fix the key |
| 19:29.27 | kerio | Jaffa: they can't push any update, HAM will reject it |
| 19:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: nokia won't transfer the domain maemo.nokia.com I guess |
| 19:29.38 | Jaffa | kerio: Fair point :) |
| 19:29.42 | kerio | also that |
| 19:29.47 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: Indeed. |
| 19:30.00 | freemangordon | though I was able to do OTA update from 1.2 to 1.3 by using apt-get |
| 19:30.05 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: to be fair, nokia or we could release a "repository-oneshot-fix" package that fixes the situation |
| 19:30.09 | tadzik | fun fact: if you 'alarmclient -c' while the alarm is running, the bastard will keep ringing, impossible to turn off |
| 19:30.12 | kerio | freemangordon: do you remember the error message from HAM? |
| 19:30.22 | Jaffa | Which means that users have to get a fix into the keychain. HAM - at least - won't let that happen without another trusted domain. Which means CSSU |
| 19:30.24 | freemangordon | kerio: no error message ;) |
| 19:30.33 | freemangordon | just no update |
| 19:30.38 | kerio | Jaffa: nah, running stuff as root is easy |
| 19:30.42 | Jaffa | kerio: I suspect that won't work from Extras as it'd involve overwriting a file from a package in a higher domain |
| 19:30.47 | kerio | no it won't |
| 19:30.53 | Jaffa | kerio: Yeah, could bodge it using postinst |
| 19:30.57 | kerio | it's *adding* a new file |
| 19:30.57 | Jaffa | (probably) |
| 19:31.04 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@athedsl-349354.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:31.05 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@Maemo/community/council/qwazix) |
| 19:31.07 | kerio | which is what you do in the first install of community-ssu-enabler |
| 19:31.21 | Jaffa | kerio: Don't you need to overwrite the old key with the new one? |
| 19:31.33 | freemangordon | Jaffa: I think we can find a package in extras to use for that purpose |
| 19:31.33 | kerio | Jaffa: you can't change the expire date of a gpg key |
| 19:31.44 | freemangordon | which is in "user" section |
| 19:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll consider this task as correctly spawned and kicked off |
| 19:31.48 | Jaffa | kerio: No, I know |
| 19:32.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll leave it up to you for now, please don't drop it |
| 19:32.07 | Jaffa | kerio: I didn't say change the expire date - I said overwrite the key [file] |
| 19:32.14 | kerio | actually, all this discussion is moot |
| 19:32.23 | freemangordon | kerio: why? |
| 19:32.26 | kerio | because we'd need write access to downloads.maemo.nokia.com |
| 19:32.31 | kerio | to do things in the proper way |
| 19:32.46 | freemangordon | kerio: that won;t happen, the only way is -extras |
| 19:32.49 | Jaffa | kerio: Or you write to /etc/hosts and point it at downloadsnokia.maemo.org |
| 19:32.53 | kerio | Jaffa: oh you |
| 19:33.07 | kerio | then we'd need a mirror-ish of downloads.maemo.nokia.com |
| 19:33.12 | Jaffa | Pragmatic solutions probably needed |
| 19:33.24 | kerio | oh, if we're going pragmatic then it's easy |
| 19:33.35 | Jaffa | Given it's likely to drop offline at some random point (I guess), that doesn't seem unreasonable (though I note in the Council logs notes about (c)) |
| 19:33.56 | kerio | new package in extras, repository-oneshot-fix, empty package that does stuff in postinst: |
| 19:34.06 | kerio | enable redpill mode in HAM |
| 19:34.16 | kerio | enable "ignore wrong domain" in HAM |
| 19:34.24 | freemangordon | kerio: no new package, a new version of an existing one |
| 19:34.37 | kerio | freemangordon: what? |
| 19:34.48 | kerio | which existing one? |
| 19:34.56 | freemangordon | we need to find it :) |
| 19:35.08 | freemangordon | a package that will do the job |
| 19:35.16 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e258:1a01:38fe:3938:2b11:a6ed) |
| 19:35.32 | kerio | Jaffa: do you think that HAM will honour redpill preferences even if redpill is disabled? |
| 19:35.44 | kerio | think/remember |
| 19:36.09 | freemangordon | hmm where is xterminal? |
| 19:36.14 | freemangordon | in what repo? |
| 19:36.40 | kerio | the stockest of them all |
| 19:37.09 | kerio | freemangordon: maemo extras is lower than any other nokia repo, including ovi |
| 19:37.39 | kerio | so we can't push an update for any package in the stock image, pretty much |
| 19:37.47 | kerio | without a tiny bit of user intervention |
| 19:38.13 | freemangordon | kerio: pool/maemo5.0/free/o/osso-xterm/osso-xterm_0.14.mh27+0m5_armel.deb |
| 19:38.25 | freemangordon | I read that as maemo-extras |
| 19:38.36 | kerio | you read that wrong :) |
| 19:38.37 | kerio | http://maemo.org/packages/view/osso-xterm/ |
| 19:38.58 | kerio | maemo 5 device root filesystem pr1.0, pr 1.2, sdk free armel, sdk free i386, device ssu repository pr 1.2 |
| 19:39.17 | freemangordon | kerio: but someone said that priority is ignored for repos with expired keys |
| 19:39.39 | kerio | no, the repository drops to trust level 0 |
| 19:39.39 | freemangordon | or I misread it |
| 19:39.45 | kerio | but the packages still have the original trust level |
| 19:39.52 | kerio | the installed packages |
| 19:39.56 | freemangordon | aah, i see |
| 19:39.57 | kerio | so they won't get upgraded by ham |
| 19:40.01 | *** join/#maemo loganbr (~user@wifi-napanet-static-206-81-98-165.napanet.net) |
| 19:40.21 | kerio | i... think |
| 19:40.28 | kerio | where's the "trust level" stored? |
| 19:41.04 | freemangordon | NFC |
| 19:41.34 | kerio | we need someone with PR1.2 still installed |
| 19:41.39 | tadzik | freemangordon: do you understand this alarmclient thing? |
| 19:41.44 | freemangordon | tadzik: no |
| 19:41.53 | tadzik | I can reproduce that it recurs indefinitely if you remove the snooze button from it :| |
| 19:41.55 | kerio | maybe disabling every repo, updating and then reenabling every repo could fix it |
| 19:42.05 | tadzik | I guess that's a "doctor, it hurts when I do this" situation |
| 19:42.15 | freemangordon | :) |
| 19:42.42 | kerio | srsly, where's the domain for every package stored? |
| 19:42.58 | freemangordon | kerio: my undersaning is that we should find a way to inform every n900 user that there is CSSU |
| 19:43.20 | freemangordon | I can't think of any other way but through a package |
| 19:43.55 | kerio | we can't push anything to a stock device, right now |
| 19:44.03 | freemangordon | so, we should find an appropriate package in maemo-extras and push a new version of it |
| 19:44.09 | freemangordon | maemo-extras is the way |
| 19:44.14 | kerio | no package in maemo-extras is preinstalled on a stock device ffs |
| 19:44.34 | freemangordon | are you sure? |
| 19:45.50 | freemangordon | hmm, what about docs-to-go? (I know it is not in extras) |
| 19:45.59 | freemangordon | is OVI key still valid? |
| 19:46.31 | kerio | freemangordon: apt-key list |
| 19:48.26 | freemangordon | hmm, what is that: |
| 19:48.27 | freemangordon | pub 1024D/4510B055 2009-03-18 |
| 19:48.28 | freemangordon | uid MaemoSW Admin <admin@maemo.research.nokia.com> |
| 19:49.49 | Pali | freemangordon, private maemo repo on maemo.research.nokia.com |
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| 19:50.13 | freemangordon | the key is still valid |
| 19:50.28 | kerio | meh, this is confusing |
| 19:50.35 | Pali | but DNS A record is only in nokia intranet |
| 19:51.09 | freemangordon | yeah :( |
| 19:51.22 | kerio | well, that key is good enough for nokia-system |
| 19:51.24 | kerio | trust level 600 |
| 19:51.38 | Pali | that key is useless |
| 19:51.47 | freemangordon | well, then we just need to find a package in maemo-extras |
| 19:51.49 | Pali | and provides by package maemo-internal-keyring |
| 19:52.03 | Pali | (or similar name) |
| 19:52.51 | kerio | which keys are CC3E6BA3EE288AECEE24FD8EB6ECBFF74C36F0B6 and 1CC1A2A2B8CE8F258F896B4207C0DFF713FA4ED6 ? |
| 19:54.12 | freemangordon | Pali: maemointernal-keyring |
| 19:54.43 | freemangordon | kerio: where did you get that from? |
| 19:55.13 | kerio | /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/domains |
| 19:59.56 | kerio | i just can't see what nokia was supposed to do, really |
| 20:00.06 | kerio | push an update and hope that people would upgrade before the keys expired? |
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| 20:02.17 | kerio | it's too late now |
| 20:08.35 | freemangordon | well, I guess another option will be to see which is the most downloaded package in extras |
| 20:08.51 | freemangordon | or top 10 |
| 20:09.05 | freemangordon | will be better than nothing |
| 20:10.15 | freemangordon | kerio: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/n900-fmrx-enabler/ |
| 20:10.16 | freemangordon | :D:D:D |
| 20:10.35 | freemangordon | that should solve the case for PR 1.3 |
| 20:10.49 | kerio | hmm |
| 20:11.07 | kerio | freemangordon: http://maemo.org/packages/view/n900-fmrx-enabler/ |
| 20:11.28 | kerio | it's preinstalled |
| 20:11.40 | freemangordon | kerio: in PR1.3 |
| 20:11.41 | kerio | i'm not sure if pushing it through extras will work |
| 20:11.51 | freemangordon | of course it will |
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| 20:12.13 | kerio | we don't really have a clue of what HAM actually does with that weird trust-level shit |
| 20:12.36 | freemangordon | but I can't think of a way to test it |
| 20:13.33 | freemangordon | kerio: aah, wait, it is installed on pre-PR1.3 devices too |
| 20:14.00 | *** part/#maemo Natanaiel (~Unknown@unaffiliated/natanaiel) |
| 20:14.29 | freemangordon | Jaffa: any thoughts? for n900-fmrx-enabler package to be used as a tool to fix gpg keys? |
| 20:14.30 | *** join/#maemo olliey` (~user@218.9.77.176) |
| 20:14.37 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ |
| 20:14.53 | kerio | it's definetely in a user section |
| 20:15.05 | kerio | also note that it's only preinstalled for Global users |
| 20:15.25 | kerio | no, maybe it's not preinstalled in the... uk? |
| 20:15.26 | freemangordon | kerio: well, better than nothing |
| 20:16.53 | freemangordon | kerio: we can try a better candidate, but I don;t know why |
| 20:17.08 | freemangordon | s/try/try to find/ |
| 20:18.24 | kerio | i don't know if adding a new file in /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/domains will help though |
| 20:18.29 | freemangordon | kerio: any idea how to test if this will work? |
| 20:18.39 | kerio | maybe we'll have to divert and change the existing one |
| 20:18.48 | kerio | freemangordon: dude, i don't even have a clue of how to get an error message |
| 20:18.51 | Pali | btw, what are you trying to do? |
| 20:19.03 | kerio | i tried a lot, couldn't find a way to make *something* fail on my HAM |
| 20:19.10 | kerio | Pali: try to fix the expired nokia key |
| 20:19.15 | freemangordon | kerio: if there is a way to push an update to the devices, I am sure we'll find what should be done |
| 20:19.35 | kerio | Pali: by using n900-fmtx-enabler as an "attack vector" |
| 20:19.40 | kerio | we push an update to that package in maemo extras |
| 20:19.49 | kerio | it should appear on every HAM |
| 20:19.55 | Pali | why not wait waht happen with maemo.nokia.com?? |
| 20:20.04 | freemangordon | kerio: it is not only about the key, toldya, we can use it to inform n900 users about CSSU existance |
| 20:20.07 | kerio | Pali: the gpg key nokia used to sign is expired |
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| 20:20.21 | Pali | kerio, maybe nokia will fix key |
| 20:20.25 | Pali | or will delete repo |
| 20:20.28 | kerio | Pali: there's no way to fix it |
| 20:20.41 | Pali | kerio, changing expiration |
| 20:20.42 | freemangordon | Pali: how will they sign it? |
| 20:20.46 | Pali | it is possible |
| 20:20.49 | kerio | ...you can't change the expiration of a key |
| 20:20.54 | Pali | you can |
| 20:21.00 | freemangordon | Pali: how |
| 20:21.11 | freemangordon | the keys are on the device |
| 20:21.11 | kerio | freemangordon: we can use it to silently enable CSSU stable for users |
| 20:21.16 | Jaffa | freemangordon: Could work. Would need testing. |
| 20:21.31 | Pali | apt-key can update key from keyserver |
| 20:21.32 | kerio | i'm not sure which assumptions we're running with, here |
| 20:21.33 | freemangordon | kerio: well, thats more than I would do |
| 20:21.39 | Pali | and I bet that there can be support in HAM |
| 20:21.44 | kerio | can we assume we control maemo.org? |
| 20:21.50 | kerio | what about downloads.maemo.nokia.com? |
| 20:22.05 | Pali | and if somebody change exporation of nokia key, he also push it to some public gpg server |
| 20:22.12 | freemangordon | Jaffa: for sure (testing) |
| 20:22.21 | Pali | and then it will be synced will other gpg servers |
| 20:22.28 | Pali | and apt-key can update it on device |
| 20:22.42 | Pali | after that apt-get can work again |
| 20:22.45 | freemangordon | Pali: does "the user" need to run commands on the device? |
| 20:22.59 | Pali | freemangordon, I do not know how is apt-key configured |
| 20:23.10 | kerio | you'd need user intervention |
| 20:23.14 | freemangordon | Pali: can you check it? |
| 20:23.30 | Pali | yes, but not know... |
| 20:23.38 | freemangordon | kerio: if that's true, then we'd better forget about that :) |
| 20:23.38 | Pali | doing something other... |
| 20:23.47 | freemangordon | Pali: ok, no hurry |
| 20:24.05 | Pali | and if nokia decide to drop maemo.nokia.com then changing apt configuration will be useless... |
| 20:24.34 | Pali | (then we can only publish our backup with new signature) |
| 20:28.49 | kerio | and put everything in maemo extras! :D |
| 20:28.53 | kerio | actually not really |
| 20:29.01 | kerio | push the update through n900-fmtx-enabler |
| 20:29.02 | freemangordon | Pali: new signature with what key? |
| 20:29.21 | kerio | freemangordon: maemo.org extras for instance |
| 20:29.25 | kerio | or a new one |
| 20:29.34 | kerio | to add a repo you need to run stuff as root anyway |
| 20:30.00 | freemangordon | but we are still in point 1 - user action is needed |
| 20:31.01 | kerio | no, we push a new version of n900-fmtx-enabler, if it works |
| 20:31.09 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
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| 20:31.32 | kerio | the visible name will be something user-friendly related to a system upgrade |
| 20:31.46 | freemangordon | ok, makes sense |
| 20:32.12 | kerio | can user package require reboots? |
| 20:32.18 | freemangordon | and we can push a link to CSSU on desktop |
| 20:32.26 | freemangordon | kerio: don;t think so |
| 20:33.17 | freemangordon | anyway, all this have to wait until we have control ovler maemo.org |
| 20:33.23 | freemangordon | *over |
| 20:36.02 | kerio | freemangordon: in the mean time, every cssu should ship the current n900-fmtx-enabler but with a bigass epoch |
| 20:36.20 | kerio | and fix the repos |
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| 20:36.55 | freemangordon | fix? how? we don;t have new key |
| 20:37.41 | freemangordon | kerio: BTW we should test if it works first (the package) |
| 20:38.05 | kerio | by the way, why can't we just disable the fucking trust-level check? |
| 20:38.18 | freemangordon | But i'll leave that to someone more knowledgeable than me |
| 20:38.38 | freemangordon | kerio: what's wrong with it? |
| 20:38.49 | kerio | for instance, it makes the nokia repo not work if there's no valid gpg key |
| 20:38.50 | kerio | :) |
| 20:39.21 | kerio | it's disableable by writing to ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager |
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| 22:22.03 | kerio | freemangordon: we can test your fmtx-enabler idea by changing the keys and the address of the maemo repo with one made by us |
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| 22:40.15 | tadzik | is there any nice portrait mode virtual keyboard that people use? |
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| 22:56.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | not afaik |
| 22:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might be wrong though |
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