| 00:00.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | there mustn't |
| 00:00.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually a dangling cable never should have any current flowing thru it |
| 00:00.49 | teotwaki | btw, changing the topic |
| 00:00.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | USB no exception |
| 00:00.57 | teotwaki | thoughts on the lenovo e330? |
| 00:01.02 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05: its micro B |
| 00:01.10 | MohammadAG | I have a micro a otg cable |
| 00:01.20 | MohammadAG | From the Nokia N8 package |
| 00:01.40 | MohammadAG | Havent tried any lenovos |
| 00:01.48 | MohammadAG | But HP is a never again for me |
| 00:02.12 | MohammadAG | Two batteries in two years, and the charger sympathizes with them and breaks too |
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| 00:02.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, my T500 (used) came with a defect PSU, they sent me 2 new spare ones |
| 00:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | a friend of mine has the ultraslim version of the T5xx series, and told me to stay away from it |
| 00:04.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it's the complete opposite of the good old strudy T500 |
| 00:04.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | T50 |
| 00:04.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | etc |
| 00:05.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | the BIOS fan control is a crappy joke though |
| 00:05.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | on mine |
| 00:05.51 | MohammadAG | Wonder if i should replace the battety or sell the laptop |
| 00:06.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is it? |
| 00:06.10 | teotwaki | well, I've had a lenovo x1 carbon |
| 00:06.15 | teotwaki | and it's fantastic |
| 00:06.29 | teotwaki | best keyboard on a laptop, bar none |
| 00:06.33 | teotwaki | great touchpad |
| 00:07.01 | teotwaki | but I'd like a cheap 13" for travel |
| 00:07.10 | teotwaki | 11" is too small to do any real work on. |
| 00:07.25 | teotwaki | and hard to get decent hardware under |
| 00:08.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever friends, my pub doesn't wait for me. But I'm waiting for my beer |
| 00:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 00:08.22 | teotwaki | 'later |
| 00:08.54 | teotwaki | MohammadAG: if you want a sweet and sexy linux laptop |
| 00:08.58 | teotwaki | look at the x1 carbon |
| 00:09.13 | teotwaki | very nicely priced for the hardware you get. |
| 00:12.02 | MohammadAG | They still have that mouse thingy? |
| 00:12.10 | teotwaki | oh yea |
| 00:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: one more for leaving: was that you or timeless who built the alternative locales? |
| 00:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | mouse thingy? that red knob that I removed and stuffed it into the phone receptacle? |
| 00:14.54 | teotwaki | the mouse clit, yes. |
| 00:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | dman what a mouse!!! ;-P |
| 00:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn even |
| 00:15.22 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: I do remember messing around with locales, but I don't think I ever published something... |
| 00:15.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | for N810/diablo? |
| 00:15.48 | teotwaki | you're getting old, DocScrutinizer05. |
| 00:15.53 | teotwaki | You asked that question in August. |
| 00:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible |
| 00:16.04 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05ask timeless, he published his own improved translations - or was it crashanddie? |
| 00:16.21 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05zeq: I juggled with all that shite some 2 years ago. My conclusion been it's not possible to do anything about it. IIRC the 'normal' locale dirs don't contain anything, it's all in that 23MB closed blob locale-cache |
| 00:16.22 | GeneralAntilles | timeless is the l10n man. |
| 00:16.43 | teotwaki | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24564 |
| 00:17.08 | teotwaki | Apparently qwerty published the actual purge. |
| 00:19.16 | teotwaki | Holy shit, french border control "extreme" division. Heli pilot training: "At some point, the instructor will turn off the engines, either during flight, takeoff or landing. The pilot has no other option that to succeed the exercise and control the vehicle's reaction" |
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| 00:25.26 | ShadowJK | That's standard training in a majority of helicopters, civilian too |
| 00:27.17 | teotwaki | ShadowJK: in a live helicopter? |
| 00:27.44 | ShadowJK | Except most attempts will have "power recovery" at the end, the pilot executes an engine-off landing with the heli, but levels out a few feet above ground, the instructor restores engine power and the heli enters a hover |
| 00:28.12 | teotwaki | fair enough. |
| 00:28.21 | ShadowJK | In some models you must also do the full touchdown during training atleast once |
| 00:29.07 | ShadowJK | but there are some that don't fly that well without engines, and you might not get to do full touchdown and stop |
| 00:29.39 | teotwaki | I thought passing my bike license was a hassle. |
| 00:30.40 | ShadowJK | Helicopter flying is roughly similar to balancing two bowling balls ontop of 30 foot pole |
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| 00:33.47 | teotwaki | I figured---I was jesting. |
| 00:34.07 | teotwaki | It's surprising though, I remember the first time I tried to drive a bike |
| 00:34.26 | teotwaki | I thought I would never understand the basics |
| 00:34.55 | ShadowJK | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOJSo6_F6mE Instructors cuts engine power, pilot does a 360 turn over water and touches down on a beach :) |
| 00:35.31 | teotwaki | I've now passed my license twice, and a few thousand miles further, I completed an advanced training course no sweat. |
| 00:37.27 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 00:37.32 | teotwaki | same with chutes, first time, it went by in a flash, and I hardly enjoyed any of it, nowadays, I jump solo, take the out position on planes to film or photograph others, etc. |
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| 00:37.59 | teotwaki | I'm guessing helis must be the same, it just becomes an extension of your body. |
| 00:39.54 | ShadowJK | I think it's mostly about getting your brainstem programmed |
| 00:40.30 | ShadowJK | the brain is too slow for the small corrections and reactions needed to maintain stable flight :) |
| 00:42.14 | teotwaki | djeezus, billy robbins, 360kg at 19yo |
| 00:43.28 | ShadowJK | iirc I once worked out that most helis with engines out have same glide ratio as the space shuttle. The space shuttle gets to start at 300km of altitude though :) |
| 00:44.30 | teotwaki | I think helis are the sexiest of the heavier than air flights |
| 00:45.52 | ShadowJK | I got fascinated by them after discovering FlightGear had a heli model |
| 00:46.10 | ShadowJK | My first flight lasted about half a second |
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| 00:46.38 | Guest6143 | hey |
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| 00:46.51 | teotwaki | I think I've destroyed about a grand worth of rc helis |
| 00:47.01 | ShadowJK | A year later and I was pretty good in flightgear's heli models, but my PC was too slow by then, so I bought a rc heli :) |
| 00:47.33 | ShadowJK | Oh and before that, rc heli sim, helped me alot to not crash rc heli on first flights |
| 00:50.00 | ShadowJK | All the cool RC pilots land without motor power too :( |
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| 01:10.15 | FIQ | teotwaki: nothing |
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| 01:13.34 | JZA | hi I want to use an app called ytube |
| 01:13.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | mhm |
| 01:13.59 | JZA | but it seems it has been broken for some weaks |
| 01:14.09 | JZA | weeks |
| 01:14.27 | JZA | i wonder if there is a way I can report the bug or lear if there is any patch on the way |
| 01:14.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, I gather it is messing withyoutube |
| 01:14.43 | JZA | I found the garage page |
| 01:14.46 | JZA | http://maemo.org/packages/view/ytube/ |
| 01:14.56 | JZA | but the bug report route me to the forum |
| 01:15.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | forum is a valid bugreport means |
| 01:16.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | odds are that youtube changed their API and thus ytube doesn't work anymore |
| 01:16.53 | JZA | its odd, it seems I dont have an account on the forum, but have one on the site |
| 01:17.23 | JZA | DocScrutinizer51: I am still getting most of the info of th videos and feed, the issue is when I try to download it, or play it. |
| 01:17.43 | JZA | DocScrutinizer51: so it cant be an issue of the codec, but of the retrieving mechanism |
| 01:17.48 | ShadowJK | I think it must have been broken for more than just a few weeks |
| 01:18.16 | JZA | ShadowJK: well I can still comment, thum up/down, and share it through fb/twitter |
| 01:18.35 | JZA | I only cant seem to play or download the video |
| 01:18.56 | JZA | I also dont see a link to the source so I cant tell what is the software using for that |
| 01:20.19 | ShadowJK | My guess would be there's a python copy of youtube-dl lurking |
| 01:20.25 | ShadowJK | it tends to be that |
| 01:20.44 | ShadowJK | i guess dpkg -L ytube |
| 01:21.02 | ShadowJK | on your device, would give filelisting and see if it's a python app or what |
| 01:21.26 | JZA | it is a python app, I know that from the comments |
| 01:21.33 | JZA | python and QML |
| 01:22.14 | JZA | and also the changelog says it uses mplayer to reproduce the videos |
| 01:22.28 | JZA | I dont know what module/parameters do python uses. |
| 01:22.35 | JZA | to download the video |
| 01:25.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | isn't it flash? |
| 01:26.02 | JZA | DocScrutinizer51: huh? |
| 01:26.07 | JZA | what is flash? |
| 01:26.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | flash like in shockwave flashplayer 10 |
| 01:27.16 | JZA | I doubt python has a flash modulee |
| 01:27.18 | JZA | module |
| 01:27.36 | JZA | and even more odd to use it as a retrieval of files |
| 01:28.17 | JZA | it would probable be using curl, or something like that |
| 01:28.53 | JZA | urllib2 |
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| 01:30.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'd figure they use flash9.+ microB plugin to playback, and do a screencast record |
| 01:30.37 | ShadowJK | wtf :) |
| 01:30.52 | ShadowJK | None of the youtube apps do that |
| 01:31.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | well youtube videos are flash, no? |
| 01:31.17 | ShadowJK | No |
| 01:31.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | then NFC |
| 01:31.36 | ShadowJK | the youtube webpage uses a player implemented in flash |
| 01:31.45 | ShadowJK | The videos are .mp4 |
| 01:31.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | err ahhh ummm |
| 01:32.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | .oO(???) |
| 01:33.09 | ShadowJK | The thing that usually fails is downloading from youtube. Google doesn't like non-youtube.com players downloading the videos, and regulary change their webpage to break third party software. |
| 01:34.37 | JZA | ShadowJK: well I use youtube-dl on my machine and I update regularly, is thn0n900ere a way to do the same for ytube on my |
| 01:34.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | yoh |
| 01:34.49 | JZA | *there |
| 01:34.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | what I said |
| 01:35.35 | JZA | patch should be pretty simple, but without a repo of th code, or bugzilla is hard to push a patch. |
| 01:35.56 | JZA | also I would presume ytube uses a modified version of youtube-dl |
| 01:36.15 | ShadowJK | I'd assume that too |
| 01:39.34 | JZA | it also seems I cant login to the forum, the contact admin form is broken (captcha doesnt work) |
| 01:39.41 | JZA | o I cant get my account back on working |
| 01:39.48 | JZA | I can login to the site, but not the forum |
| 01:40.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | lease elaborate |
| 01:41.00 | ShadowJK | http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/ytube/1-8/ |
| 01:41.45 | nox- | youtube-dl needed an updated a few weeks (months?) ago bc yt changed something |
| 01:42.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah |
| 01:42.15 | nox- | (and i rarely have luck with n900 yt player bc they seem to be always out of date...) |
| 01:42.22 | nox- | players |
| 01:44.05 | JZA | ShadowJK: I pastee that link already, but their bugzilla send me to the forum, which I cant access :/ |
| 01:44.29 | ShadowJK | that one has .tar.gz of sourcecode |
| 01:44.36 | ShadowJK | if you're interested |
| 01:45.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, microB worked 24h ago wtith |
| 01:45.24 | nox- | yeah only microb sorta works |
| 01:45.49 | ShadowJK | Well that's the official google approved youtube player |
| 01:45.54 | nox- | but other yt `apps' usually less so |
| 01:46.12 | nox- | ShadowJK, yeah |
| 01:46.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | forum login should work |
| 01:46.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | other services not so much |
| 01:46.58 | ShadowJK | Well he lost his password or something |
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| 01:51.05 | JZA | ShadowJK: I didnt lost my password I can login to the maemo garage, but I cant login to forums |
| 01:51.07 | JZA | makes sense? |
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| 02:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 02:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | talk.maemo.org is supposed to work |
| 02:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | JZA: ^^^^ |
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| 02:37.42 | JZA | DocScrutinizer05: I think you didnt read me, the forum 'contact form' doesnt work http://talk.maemo.org/sendmessage.php?do=docontactus |
| 02:37.53 | JZA | and I cant login with my garage login/password |
| 02:38.15 | JZA | DocScrutinizer05: captcha is busted |
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| 05:38.32 | kerio | cutetube works for me |
| 05:38.55 | kerio | and it does youtube and dailymotion or something |
| 05:49.23 | kerio | meh, nox- left |
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| 07:30.59 | unclouded | there's now another script to list, add and remove contacts from the command line: https://bitbucket.org/darkcloud/maemo-addressbook/src/f8f8ce4ef02ba46093b40c3f7abe24a64245bbc7/addressbook?at=master |
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| 08:39.09 | Igor2__ | hi |
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| 08:39.36 | Igor2__ | i've installed BatteryGraph from extras on my N900, and the daemon part is strange |
| 08:40.19 | Igor2__ | if the daemon is not running, no data is saved, but the process doesn't daemonize itself |
| 08:40.44 | internetishard | After fmms runs my connection stays on MMS, shouldn't it change back to internet connection? |
| 08:40.48 | Igor2__ | now i believe this daemon is to blame for my device not booting up (it's animating the dot forever) |
| 08:41.07 | Igor2__ | do I have another option to fix this or am i doomed to reflash the device? |
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| 08:52.15 | Igor2__ | ok, reflashing then |
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| 09:08.04 | Igor2__ | was less painful than i thought |
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| 10:04.41 | Macer | HI GUYS! |
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| 10:15.01 | cityLights | whats wrong with the mailing list? |
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| 10:18.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | cityLights: yeah what? |
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| 10:21.56 | cityLights | I got an email, need to look in to it. thought the email was going down |
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| 10:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclouded: damn awesome |
| 10:26.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclouded: and I see you're a real programmer :-) Placing constants left side of == |
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| 10:34.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclouded: ugh you're indeed a real programmer! lambda, my headache |
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| 11:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclouded: I just wonder how much RAM this line will need for an addrbook with some 5000 contacts: >> contacts = addressbook.get_all_contacts() << |
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| 11:06.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | while python and generally OO is pretty nice to algorithmically express concepts, it's usually luring coders into a wasteful coding style regarding resources, and profiling/optimizing stuff is nearly impossible |
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| 11:11.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, could somebody meter and profile this one line above, for runtime/cpu-usage and ram-usage? |
| 11:12.02 | *** join/#maemo zhxt (~zhxt@175.165.232.207) |
| 11:13.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | preferably considering size and number of records in /home/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db |
| 11:14.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | mine is only 45k bytes, so probably not really useful for a stresstest |
| 11:15.47 | unclouded | very true, I didn't even think about the memory required for that invocation. too much development where RAM is cheaper than developer time! :) not true of this device though |
| 11:16.07 | jon_y | heh, they told me RAM is dirt cheap |
| 11:16.21 | jon_y | don't matter though if you are working on an embedded system |
| 11:16.29 | jon_y | or any SOC boards |
| 11:20.01 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 11:24.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclouded: dunno, maybe you could apply the lambda filter function during instantiation/initialization of the contacts object already? |
| 11:25.07 | *** join/#maemo WielkiTost (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 11:26.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc how evolution class is implemented |
| 11:35.43 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 11:44.59 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@88.130.202.221) |
| 12:09.22 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~quassel@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 12:22.05 | MohammadAG | I wonder why I even bother with Harmattan |
| 12:22.20 | MohammadAG | I drop one file in /etc/init and it MALFs |
| 12:22.34 | MohammadAG | Neither Android nor iOS do that |
| 12:32.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you already noticed that? |
| 12:32.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 12:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | guess why I stopped even following what's up with HARM |
| 12:33.44 | Sicelo | heh |
| 12:34.26 | teotwaki | I guess that shorthand is pretty self explanatory |
| 12:34.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: chosen carefully |
| 12:34.49 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@h139.natout.aau.dk) |
| 12:35.16 | teotwaki | <mystical voice> Just like you were, DocScrutinizer05, just like you were... </> |
| 12:36.14 | MohammadAG | I wonder what borked state is infinite bootloop + red LED on the camera flash |
| 12:36.29 | MohammadAG | I can get to SDK mode, but ssh isn't started |
| 12:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 12:36.44 | MohammadAG | I don't want to throw the damn thing into open mode |
| 12:37.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | open mode is a lie |
| 12:37.08 | MohammadAG | exactly |
| 12:37.15 | MohammadAG | it only makes things worse |
| 12:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | HARM is FUBAR. period |
| 12:38.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really can't be arsed to even touch it |
| 12:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | With fremantle we had the problem of missing docs regarding available dbus methods. With HARM we got the same PLUS the methods we know of or found out about are maybe disabled by some brainfart policy. Similar situation with config files |
| 12:42.22 | MohammadAG | oh nice, warranty void thingy |
| 12:42.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit |
| 12:43.11 | RST38h | moo,Mohammad |
| 12:43.14 | RST38h | How is life? |
| 12:44.19 | MohammadAG | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:44.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: you probably should blow the dust off your N900 |
| 12:44.35 | MohammadAG | wow, still doesn't boot |
| 12:44.41 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, actually it's on |
| 12:44.52 | teotwaki | MohammadAG: Do not give in to the fear; fear leads to anger; anger leads to iOS; iOS leads to Objective-C; Objective-C leads to suffering. |
| 12:45.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | music is the best |
| 12:45.31 | teotwaki | sex is the best. |
| 12:45.39 | MohammadAG | Obj-C isn't that bad |
| 12:45.40 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 12:45.48 | MohammadAG | it's actually better than Java |
| 12:46.03 | RST38h | Suffering leads to compiling Linux kernel |
| 12:46.10 | *** mode/#maemo [+q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG] by ChanServ |
| 12:46.16 | RST38h | Compiling Linux kernel leads to compiling Linux kernel |
| 12:46.19 | teotwaki | MohammadAG: you've said enough stupid things for today. |
| 12:46.24 | RST38h | [and then you die] |
| 12:46.29 | *** mode/#maemo [-q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG] by ChanServ |
| 12:46.30 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot7 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 12:47.02 | MohammadAG | hehe |
| 12:47.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | wisdom is the domain of the wis (which is extinct) |
| 12:47.24 | MohammadAG | I actually liked Objective C :P |
| 12:47.50 | MohammadAG | the only thing that made me stop development is how broken my hackintosh was |
| 12:48.04 | MohammadAG | and the fact a macbook cost about the same as the car I drive |
| 12:48.11 | teotwaki | MohammadAG: well, then understanding how to repair Harmattan should be no problem to you. You're obviously a masochist. Would you like a Windows 8 tablet with that? |
| 12:48.29 | RST38h | teotwaki: Sorry to ask, but what the fuck are you? |
| 12:48.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Beauty is a French phonetic corruption Of a short cloth neck ornament Currently in resurgence... |
| 12:48.38 | teotwaki | RST38h: eh? |
| 12:48.45 | MohammadAG | actually I was thinking of upgrading my laptop to Windows 8 |
| 12:48.49 | teotwaki | RST38h: I'm crashanddie. |
| 12:48.53 | RST38h | Mohammad: Avoid. |
| 12:48.56 | teotwaki | As to "what". |
| 12:48.59 | teotwaki | No fucking clue. |
| 12:49.01 | MohammadAG | no |
| 12:49.03 | MohammadAG | you're human |
| 12:49.04 | RST38h | teotwaki: Ah, this places things into context =) |
| 12:49.21 | MohammadAG | heh |
| 12:49.28 | teotwaki | MohammadAG: I paid $800 for my mbp |
| 12:49.31 | teotwaki | or was it $600? |
| 12:49.36 | MohammadAG | see, that's not much |
| 12:49.37 | RST38h | Mohammad: A while ago, specially trained MS representative tried selling me a Win8 ultrabook |
| 12:49.50 | MohammadAG | halve that and add another 0 and you're good to go! |
| 12:50.04 | teotwaki | RST38h: what was it that was bothering you? |
| 12:50.08 | MohammadAG | (yes, it's $4k) |
| 12:50.09 | jon_y | is an ultrabook actually good for anything? |
| 12:50.11 | RST38h | Mohammad: After we chatted for 10-15minutes, he basically agreed that it is not clear why MS is committing suicide in such a convoluted manner |
| 12:50.19 | teotwaki | jon_y: travelling. |
| 12:50.20 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 12:50.24 | jon_y | ipad? |
| 12:50.36 | teotwaki | jon_y: development. |
| 12:50.40 | teotwaki | jon_y: linux |
| 12:50.41 | RST38h | teotwaki: Nothing, just putting mosaic pieces together |
| 12:50.43 | teotwaki | jon_y: freedom. |
| 12:50.47 | jon_y | on an ultrabook... |
| 12:50.54 | teotwaki | why yes! |
| 12:50.58 | jon_y | does that actually work? |
| 12:51.08 | MohammadAG | I'd rather develop on an N900 |
| 12:51.13 | jon_y | I mean the developing thing |
| 12:51.17 | RST38h | Mohammad: Well, there is Android |
| 12:51.24 | jon_y | can I make -j8? :) |
| 12:51.33 | MohammadAG | RST38h, I have a Galaxy S3 |
| 12:51.37 | teotwaki | jon_y: sure :) If you have 3g :) |
| 12:51.44 | MohammadAG | dumped the iPhone, iOS 6 was eugh |
| 12:51.49 | RST38h | Mohammad: But you will have to live with having to write a bunch of Java before getting to really interesting stuff |
| 12:51.59 | MohammadAG | I wrote a simple app |
| 12:52.03 | jon_y | teotwaki: 3g? |
| 12:52.13 | jon_y | 3g connection? |
| 12:52.17 | teotwaki | aye |
| 12:52.19 | MohammadAG | I enjoyed Obj-C more though |
| 12:52.23 | jon_y | :( |
| 12:52.31 | jon_y | 3G costs an arm and a leg |
| 12:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | we are devo |
| 12:52.43 | teotwaki | jon_y: basically, the reason I'm looking for an ultrabook is because it at least offers the keyboard quality I need to spend hours on it. |
| 12:52.46 | jon_y | with ridiculous 100MB quotas |
| 12:52.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | are we not men? |
| 12:53.08 | jon_y | well, if it has USB, an external HD will do fine |
| 12:53.24 | RST38h | Doc: we are fiends,no? |
| 12:53.38 | teotwaki | jon_y: I lent my (13") mbp to a friend, hence I need a laptop for travel. More specifically, I need a laptop tough enough to be mounted on a motorbike, and survive 1.5 meter drops. |
| 12:53.44 | RST38h | teotwaki: Not all ultrabooks have decent keyboards |
| 12:53.52 | teotwaki | a mbp does not fulfil that equation. |
| 12:54.03 | jon_y | I don't think ultrabooks can survive impacts :) |
| 12:54.07 | RST38h | Especially given the fact that every manufacturer out there is trying to copy jobsian island keyboard |
| 12:54.13 | jon_y | unless you cushion pad it |
| 12:54.29 | teotwaki | jon_y: You've never seen a toughbook fall from the third storey and survive, have you? |
| 12:54.44 | jon_y | ultrabooks are not toughbooks |
| 12:54.51 | teotwaki | Some ultrabooks are very tough :) |
| 12:54.52 | jon_y | at least those I've seen in stores |
| 12:55.06 | RST38h | many ultrabooks have got metal cases |
| 12:55.11 | jon_y | they all have ipad colors |
| 12:55.20 | MohammadAG | this makes sense Dec 18 14:52:07 (2012) kernel: [ 20.168884] init: boot-watchdog main process (521) killed by TERM signal |
| 12:55.21 | teotwaki | jon_y: lenovo has some sturdy stuff. |
| 12:55.32 | teotwaki | And you don't usually find it in shops. |
| 12:55.40 | ShadowJK | JZA; I forget how it goes, but some .maemo.org things have separate passwords. Single sign on was never completed, iirc. |
| 12:55.44 | jon_y | makes sense |
| 12:55.54 | MohammadAG | talk is talk, rest is garage |
| 12:55.54 | Hurrian | teotwaki, what the hell survives 1.5 meter drops? non-W series Lenovo Thinkpads don't. |
| 12:56.10 | jon_y | teotwaki: so how much premium for that? |
| 12:56.20 | *** join/#maemo tanty (~agomez@79.109.24.130.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 12:56.22 | Hurrian | and I'd be wary of strapping a $1000 laptop onto a bike. |
| 12:56.38 | teotwaki | allow me to qualify: drops == jumping with the bike. |
| 12:56.39 | ShadowJK | the forum actually used to be sepaate from maemo.org. and run by an individual, so user/passes were obviously not connected |
| 12:56.52 | ShadowJK | suspects the merging of accounts was never completed |
| 12:57.02 | jon_y | I'm looking at the giant HP workstation 8560w, looks awesome |
| 12:57.06 | Hurrian | teotwaki: oh. get a Samsung ARM chromebook or something, and some good shocks |
| 12:57.07 | jon_y | not an ultrabook though |
| 12:57.16 | teotwaki | in which case, it's bike's suspension doing most of the shock absorption |
| 12:57.22 | jon_y | too bad I'll never actually able to afford it |
| 12:57.26 | MohammadAG | this makes even more sense -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Dec 17 17:01 group-mce.conf |
| 12:57.28 | RST38h | not when the bike falls |
| 12:57.31 | MohammadAG | can anyone paste that? |
| 12:57.38 | RST38h | a moment |
| 12:58.45 | jon_y | as what I learned from traveling, get a cheap $200 laptop instead :) |
| 12:58.54 | Hurrian | teotwaki: any small laptop with an SSD would do fine. |
| 12:59.05 | jon_y | put your real machine behind ssh/rdp/vnc or something |
| 12:59.21 | RST38h | then deal with no internet connectivity |
| 12:59.35 | jon_y | well, that or laptop gets stolen |
| 12:59.57 | teotwaki | jon_y: yeah, I've got my compilation environment on two octo cores, but the trouble is when that goes down, or my internet is very dodgy. |
| 13:00.13 | jon_y | :( |
| 13:00.21 | teotwaki | and I don't see myself compiling 1.2M lines of code on an atom. |
| 13:00.23 | MohammadAG | RST38h, got it from scratchbox, ty though :) |
| 13:00.43 | Hurrian | I seriously hope you aren't going to do builds on a tiny laptop. |
| 13:00.54 | teotwaki | I already have, quite a few times. |
| 13:01.11 | RST38h | Atom builds stuff just fine |
| 13:01.17 | teotwaki | Everything's chrooted and automated, so I know the compilation environment is clean. |
| 13:01.27 | RST38h | A bit slowly and it won't handle daily KDE builds I guess |
| 13:01.38 | Hurrian | well, uhh, I wouldn't run around with a $1000 ultrabook on a bike. |
| 13:01.46 | teotwaki | Nha, not $1000 |
| 13:01.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR2LGEFsP4I |
| 13:02.00 | Hurrian | Might just be me being paranoid of snatchers in my country, though. |
| 13:02.23 | teotwaki | Hurrian: you really think the laptop will get stolen? |
| 13:02.31 | teotwaki | Hurrian: if I leave the bike alone for 20 minutes it's gone. |
| 13:02.46 | Hurrian | whelp |
| 13:02.54 | jon_y | lol, I don't even leave my shoes outside my house |
| 13:03.24 | Hurrian | I'd go with the cheap ARM Chromebook, install a decent Linux distro on it and keep the build environment on a SD card. |
| 13:03.30 | jon_y | yes, petty crime is rather rampant where I live |
| 13:04.00 | teotwaki | Hurrian: in Spain, I once was standing next to the bike, without my riding gear, truck pulls up after 30 minutes, and two guys ask me to take a hike. |
| 13:04.44 | jon_y | teotwaki: they took your bike? |
| 13:04.44 | Hurrian | teotwaki: damn, that's crazy, man |
| 13:05.20 | teotwaki | jon_y: no, I signaled a police car that wasn't too far away, put on my gear (helmet included) and pushed them away. |
| 13:05.40 | jon_y | that is orders magnitude worst than the petty crimes I've seen |
| 13:05.50 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:06.02 | teotwaki | bikes get stolen like nothing. They're easy to sell, transport, whatever. |
| 13:06.03 | RST38h | Doc: Eeeek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devo_2.0 |
| 13:06.15 | jon_y | which part of Spain is that? |
| 13:07.24 | Hurrian | teotwaki: most motorbikes here are cheaper than an iPhone, so most petty thefts involve smartphones. |
| 13:08.00 | Hurrian | oh, and not to mention criminals can't afford a truck/pickup to haul bikes. |
| 13:08.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: indeed eeeeek |
| 13:09.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: I have to balance this with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuQZ-VVkVu4 |
| 13:09.57 | RST38h | wonder who would buy a used bike |
| 13:10.12 | MohammadAG | if it's a motorbike, why not? |
| 13:10.19 | RST38h | Same |
| 13:10.29 | MohammadAG | I'd love a mainstream Honda CBR |
| 13:10.32 | teotwaki | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D96QM-lzLM8 |
| 13:10.34 | RST38h | had an extra bike for years before finally succeeding to sell it |
| 13:10.37 | teotwaki | Look at the 3 minute mark. |
| 13:11.00 | MohammadAG | I need a bike's license |
| 13:11.07 | MohammadAG | though most people suggest otherwise |
| 13:11.13 | teotwaki | get it |
| 13:11.14 | MohammadAG | apparently, it's too dangerous :/ |
| 13:11.15 | teotwaki | it's awesome. |
| 13:11.23 | MohammadAG | you don't need to convince me |
| 13:11.26 | teotwaki | you've got a hyper brain, you'll be fine. |
| 13:11.33 | RST38h | I guess it is popular in places where everybody rides motorbikes |
| 13:11.36 | teotwaki | Just wait till you're 24 before getting it. |
| 13:11.41 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.248.46) |
| 13:11.55 | teotwaki | Before 24-25, you'll be too hormone-imbalanced to drive safely. |
| 13:12.13 | jon_y | where I live, some bikers tend to be assholes |
| 13:12.15 | *** join/#maemo chenca (chenca@nat/indt/x-pmepwynoqavfdsci) |
| 13:12.18 | Hurrian | oh, and don't be an ass about lane slicing. |
| 13:12.24 | teotwaki | "oooh, nice ass, I bet I can impress her by deafening her with my exhaust" |
| 13:12.28 | jon_y | like making loud engine noises at 3am |
| 13:12.29 | teotwaki | lane slicing? |
| 13:12.41 | jon_y | teotwaki: or weaving |
| 13:12.52 | Hurrian | teotwaki: when motorbikes think their pedestrians and drive straight down the middle of two lanes |
| 13:12.57 | jon_y | cutting in between cars in heavy traffic |
| 13:13.01 | RST38h | Makes me remember the story of a girl who got a dirt bike a few years ago |
| 13:13.14 | RST38h | Day 1: Got a dirt bike! It is soooo cool |
| 13:13.15 | teotwaki | Hurrian: what's the problem with that? |
| 13:13.20 | Hurrian | I've lost one too many side view mirrors. |
| 13:13.32 | RST38h | Day 3: Everybody is sooo polite with me on the road! Drivers let me pass them! |
| 13:13.52 | MohammadAG | I do that |
| 13:13.53 | MohammadAG | hides |
| 13:13.57 | RST38h | Day 6: I am going to a biker party tonight, just outside the city |
| 13:14.05 | MohammadAG | (the slicing part) |
| 13:14.09 | Hurrian | somehow riders with insanely large backpacks on really wide scooters think that slicing in heavy traffic is a good idea |
| 13:14.18 | jon_y | teotwaki: also, many close calls running over bikers that think signal lights means OK to pass |
| 13:14.28 | MohammadAG | oh no, I do it with a car :p |
| 13:14.36 | teotwaki | Hurrian: ah, but you are insulting me if you put a biker in the same category as a scooter driver. |
| 13:14.43 | RST38h | Day 7: It is AAA's boyfriend. AAA's bike collided with a Lada last night, and she died on the spot. |
| 13:14.55 | jon_y | so I was making a left turn when the guy speeds up from behind, nearly ran over him |
| 13:15.40 | Hurrian | teotwaki: whoops, sorry. Nobody buys bikes for performance here, they want pack mules. |
| 13:15.51 | RST38h | Question: In comments to the last (Day 7) blog post, who got the most compassionate comments from the posters? |
| 13:16.04 | teotwaki | RST38h: the Lada? |
| 13:16.15 | *** join/#maemo pcfe` (~pcfe@brln-4dbad7c1.pool.mediaWays.net) |
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| 13:16.16 | RST38h | teotwaki: Spot on. The Lada driver. |
| 13:16.28 | teotwaki | fuck the driver, I'm worried about the car! |
| 13:16.36 | RST38h | teotwaki: Who is now going to face a 5-year sentence, out of the blue |
| 13:16.38 | Hurrian | MohammadAG, used to ride a bike back in uni, and sliced a lot in light traffic - had a little incident with heavy traffic, slicing, and road rage. |
| 13:16.56 | teotwaki | jon_y: again, there's a big difference between lane slicing, which is just not getting stuck in traffic (I only condone it if the traffic is stuck, or moving very slowly), and riding like an idiot passing cars at intersections. |
| 13:17.13 | teotwaki | I once had an accident while slicing. |
| 13:17.22 | Hurrian | teotwaki: such as riders slicing to get to the front of the intersection? |
| 13:17.28 | jaska | if the impact with my car doesnt kill you, i will :) |
| 13:17.35 | jon_y | :) |
| 13:17.40 | teotwaki | Hurrian: again, no problem there :) |
| 13:18.09 | jon_y | no survivors, no witnesses, though the heavy traffic makes it hard for the latter to happen :) |
| 13:18.47 | jon_y | teotwaki: it was slow moving traffic, I was turning into another lane |
| 13:18.51 | Hurrian | but the difference is, lanes in my country are much more narrower than in richer countries, so if you're in anything larger than a sedan, you're bound to get scraped. |
| 13:19.20 | jon_y | I'm OK with bikers getting through slow moving traffic |
| 13:19.21 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, oh :/ |
| 13:19.29 | jon_y | but not when I'm making a turn already |
| 13:19.41 | MohammadAG | is it sane that speed traps are now camouflaged? |
| 13:19.42 | teotwaki | Actually, a car ran a red light, cut me off, coming from the right. As I had to brake real hard to evade him, I kind of road-raged, and decided I'd pass him. It was a straight white line, so I shouldn't have, but there was space. I accelerate nicely, and just as I'm level to his rear wheels, he decides to cross the white line and take a left into one-way street (obviously, the wrong way). |
| 13:19.50 | Hurrian | oh, and getting scraped on the road really rustles jimmies, unlike in parts of Europe (Paris?), where I hear that people use bumpers for actual bumping. |
| 13:20.12 | teotwaki | well, it's what they're there for. |
| 13:20.24 | jon_y | :) |
| 13:20.42 | jon_y | I use my bumpers to get into tiny parking spots |
| 13:20.53 | jon_y | bump means you're too close |
| 13:21.06 | Hurrian | heh, even the lightest bump here would get your ears shouted off you. |
| 13:21.15 | jaska | strange cultures. here bump would be a mortal sin |
| 13:21.18 | MohammadAG | teotwaki, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kmVekGfaDS4#t=51s |
| 13:21.21 | jon_y | obviously when nobody is around |
| 13:21.33 | MohammadAG | you don't need to understand hebrew to see how ridiculous it got here :p |
| 13:22.48 | Macer | lol |
| 13:22.59 | Macer | that's why they're called bumpers! |
| 13:23.37 | MohammadAG | jaska, same here |
| 13:23.38 | RST38h | Mohammad: Isn't that guy hot in his army lapserdak? |
| 13:23.53 | Hurrian | actually, people get rustled over bumps so much, that on the national highway, they /stop/ in the middle of the road even for minor scrapes. |
| 13:24.10 | Hurrian | 2km long traffic jam ensues |
| 13:24.11 | jon_y | crazy |
| 13:24.13 | jaska | sound normal to me |
| 13:24.24 | Hurrian | geez, can't people take a picture, then move their shit over to the side? |
| 13:24.34 | RST38h | Hurrian: 2km traffic jam is nothing |
| 13:24.40 | jon_y | where I stay, people WILL SLOW DOWN to watch what they think is an accident |
| 13:24.41 | jaska | i think scraping someone is grounds for getting out of the car and beating the other party to death with a tire iron |
| 13:24.41 | Hurrian | things like that usually double the time it takes to cover the same distance |
| 13:24.44 | MohammadAG | RST38h, rephrase question :p |
| 13:24.47 | RST38h | 200km jam just a week ago, over snow |
| 13:24.54 | jon_y | so both ways on the highway will jam |
| 13:25.03 | jon_y | even if the accident is one side |
| 13:25.08 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, that's actually illegal here |
| 13:25.20 | RST38h | MohammadAG: the camouflage thing - don't they bake under it in the heat? |
| 13:25.21 | MohammadAG | you can't move your car till the police arrive |
| 13:25.36 | MohammadAG | RST38h, it's worth the money |
| 13:25.41 | RST38h | Oh |
| 13:25.58 | MohammadAG | a normal speeding ticket can be about $250-300 |
| 13:26.01 | Hurrian | MohammadAG: whelp. Matter of evidence and "who bumped who" thing? |
| 13:26.10 | MohammadAG | Hurrian, yes |
| 13:26.18 | MohammadAG | most people just ignore that in arab parts |
| 13:26.27 | MohammadAG | unless it's a serious accident |
| 13:26.33 | Hurrian | That's kind of the reason people still insist on not moving their perfectly functional cars here. |
| 13:26.57 | MohammadAG | but I've seen small bumps = people lying on the ground pretending they're injured so they get insurance money |
| 13:27.25 | Hurrian | MohammadAG: if only it was that easy to get insurance money here... |
| 13:27.26 | RST38h | mghm |
| 13:27.31 | MohammadAG | RST38h, I have to go to court on the 23rd |
| 13:27.36 | Hurrian | Night guys. |
| 13:27.45 | RST38h | Mohammad: Another bump? |
| 13:27.59 | MohammadAG | no, 160 on a 100kmph 140km highway |
| 13:28.09 | RST38h | oh...well, it happens |
| 13:28.10 | *** join/#maemo thetet (~raggam-nl@178-191-145-160.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 13:28.13 | MohammadAG | err, actually 142 on 90 |
| 13:28.19 | MohammadAG | 52kmph overspeed |
| 13:28.25 | MohammadAG | RST38h, nope, only in IL |
| 13:28.25 | jon_y | MohammadAG: speed ticketing is serious business :) |
| 13:28.39 | MohammadAG | I lost my license for a month |
| 13:28.59 | MohammadAG | and I might lose it for a year after the court session |
| 13:29.23 | RST38h | Mohammad: A bit harsh, yes, but I actuall had to do community work over a similar case |
| 13:29.36 | RST38h | Mohammad: In the US. |
| 13:29.39 | jaska | wtf. |
| 13:29.39 | MohammadAG | a one time speeding ticket? |
| 13:29.47 | RST38h | Mohammad: Believe it or not, yes |
| 13:29.55 | MohammadAG | with no previous incidents? |
| 13:29.59 | MohammadAG | that's dumb as fuck |
| 13:29.59 | RST38h | Mohammad: Depends on the judge. Some of them are pretty crazy |
| 13:30.06 | RST38h | Mohammad: No previous incidents. |
| 13:30.14 | MohammadAG | how much did you overspeed? |
| 13:30.20 | jon_y | RST38h: which state? |
| 13:30.27 | RST38h | Mohammad: 15-20mph |
| 13:30.31 | MohammadAG | actually there's a risk I have to do that too |
| 13:30.32 | RST38h | jon_y: MD |
| 13:30.39 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@port-8325.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 13:31.00 | jaska | for 24-32kph over? thats ridiculous |
| 13:31.04 | jon_y | hmm, which stat is MD? I'm not familiar with the signs |
| 13:31.12 | RST38h | jaska: As I said, depends on the judge. |
| 13:31.13 | jon_y | *state |
| 13:31.19 | RST38h | jon_y: Maryland. |
| 13:31.26 | jon_y | ok |
| 13:31.27 | MohammadAG | I might 1) lose my license for a year 2) get a fine, about $250-300, 3) community service, 4) need to redo theoretical and/or practical exam or 5) all of them :D |
| 13:31.49 | RST38h | Mohammad: With luck, it will be just #2 |
| 13:31.58 | jaska | here you can lose license for atleast 1mo for 30+3kph over, but speeding fines are based on your income |
| 13:32.00 | MohammadAG | that's what I'm hoping for actually |
| 13:32.10 | MohammadAG | I lost it for a damn month |
| 13:32.10 | RST38h | jaska: Yeah, heard that |
| 13:32.15 | RST38h | jaska: Nasty |
| 13:32.16 | jon_y | jaska: Italy? |
| 13:32.18 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 13:32.19 | MohammadAG | I actually drove that month though |
| 13:32.20 | jaska | .fi |
| 13:32.26 | jon_y | ok |
| 13:32.38 | MohammadAG | and learned the last day that driving without a license is 3 years in jail |
| 13:32.58 | jaska | thats crazy too |
| 13:33.07 | MohammadAG | yeah, luckily I wasn't caught |
| 13:33.15 | RST38h | At least, .IL has public transportation |
| 13:33.34 | MohammadAG | not very easy to travel that way RST38h |
| 13:33.47 | MohammadAG | two major bus companies, Egged and some arab company |
| 13:34.14 | MohammadAG | Egged don't have any bus stations close to me except for about 3km |
| 13:34.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: RST38h: try speeding in Austria. When you're not austrian resident you'll stay in jail until you paid the ~1500EUR fine |
| 13:34.18 | MohammadAG | (or more) |
| 13:34.41 | MohammadAG | so you have to switch a lot of buses to get from one area to another |
| 13:35.04 | MohammadAG | unless you live in an Israeli area, then it's fine, there's a bus stop every km |
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| 13:35.14 | jon_y | 1.5K fine? |
| 13:35.21 | RST38h | Doc: Ok, mental note: never rent a car in Austria or Germany |
| 13:35.32 | jaska | german fines are low iirc |
| 13:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | in other european countries they "just" take your car keys and don't allow you to continue your travel |
| 13:35.50 | jaska | but the tolerance is really low, like 4kph |
| 13:35.51 | jon_y | how are you suppose to return the car? |
| 13:35.53 | MohammadAG | here in Israel they were kind enough to let me continue driving for 3 days |
| 13:35.54 | RST38h | jaska:Yes but they are Germans, so I am sure they shoot at sight and let their guard dogs take care of the rest |
| 13:36.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: not exactly |
| 13:36.09 | MohammadAG | then they revoked it for a month |
| 13:36.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | fines are in the €€ to €€€ range, but you lose your driver licence with >40km/h over speed limit |
| 13:36.53 | MohammadAG | how long? |
| 13:36.55 | jaska | well, to a finn 2-3 digits is low :) |
| 13:37.15 | jaska | atleast if youre employed |
| 13:37.17 | jon_y | jaska: you go up to 4 figure fines? |
| 13:37.18 | MohammadAG | the only time I heard of the police taking a car here is a Porsche driving at about 210kmph |
| 13:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: depends, 1 month, 3 months |
| 13:37.28 | MohammadAG | not a damn year! |
| 13:37.34 | jaska | jon_y: friends father got 10k or so fine speeding. |
| 13:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | not the first time |
| 13:37.44 | jon_y | 10K! |
| 13:37.51 | jaska | (relatively wealthy) |
| 13:38.01 | jon_y | them police must be made of money now |
| 13:38.04 | MohammadAG | using the phone while driving is $270 |
| 13:38.07 | jaska | i think the highest fines have been 6 digits |
| 13:38.23 | MohammadAG | if you're at a light and it's red, and you hold the phone, you can get fined |
| 13:38.34 | teotwaki | MohammadAG: well, that camo stuff is just for show |
| 13:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: it's 40€ and one point here. ( points -> licence loss |
| 13:38.51 | ShadowJK | A guy living in same town as me got a 26kE fine for speeding. 87 in 60 zone |
| 13:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | 8 points* |
| 13:38.55 | MohammadAG | I got pulled over once, played the "I study at an Israeli uni" card |
| 13:39.01 | jaska | 60eur and points here nowadays i think |
| 13:39.09 | MohammadAG | 12 points for a new driver, 36 for regular ones |
| 13:39.23 | MohammadAG | you're a new driver for 2 years after you get your license |
| 13:39.23 | jaska | think its if you get more than 3 fines/2years its license off |
| 13:39.24 | teotwaki | MohammadAG: here in France, they just set up specific lanes perpendicular to the highway, and catch you when you're 2 miles off. |
| 13:39.32 | MohammadAG | oh right, I forgot that I might have to start the new driver part over |
| 13:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: maybe, I'm not sure about exact numbers |
| 13:40.06 | jaska | not 100% sure, never been stopped or fined |
| 13:40.17 | MohammadAG | 2 miles is 4km? |
| 13:40.23 | jaska | 2mi = 3.2km |
| 13:40.24 | RST38h | 3.2 |
| 13:41.08 | jon_y | makes taking a bus seem a safe option |
| 13:41.20 | MohammadAG | new driver = you can only carry 2 passengers |
| 13:41.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I learnt to love taxi for short distances. Train and airplane for longer ones |
| 13:41.48 | MohammadAG | so if I have to repeat that, I can only carry 2 passengers for another 2 years |
| 13:42.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMG! |
| 13:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 13:43.09 | RST38h | MohammadAG: Sounds reasonable,why would you want more! |
| 13:43.29 | MohammadAG | RST38h: sometimes you have to |
| 13:43.33 | RST38h | Do drunk passengers qualify as cargo BTW? |
| 13:43.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: you beat me to that |
| 13:44.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | was about to suggest loading the rest of them as cargo |
| 13:44.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | wrap'em up in paper ;-D |
| 13:45.11 | RST38h | Meanwhile: German state of Schleswig-Holstein orders Facebook to allow pseudonyms |
| 13:45.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool |
| 13:45.58 | jon_y | does North Germany rulling include all of Germany? |
| 13:46.10 | jon_y | or is it like the US state wide rulling only? |
| 13:47.08 | MohammadAG | RST38h: hah |
| 13:48.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | WOOOHOOO stuff moving on the migration front (see community ML) |
| 13:49.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | odd enough I got NFC who's doing what and to which purpose, but obviously something gonna be done tonight |
| 13:50.39 | MohammadAG | Talk about short notice |
| 13:53.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: depends |
| 13:55.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | regarding IT and privacy issues each "state" got its own entity controlling stuff, but basically the jurisdiction is nationwide |
| 13:56.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | just the judicature and executive are per state |
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| 14:00.44 | *** part/#maemo JZA (~guest@187.185.159.115) |
| 14:03.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] expect downtimes on all *.maemo.org services (except talk.maemo.org) starting now+1h, due to rsyncing to new infra |
| 14:06.56 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.19.44) |
| 14:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: good move (mail to Ferenc) |
| 14:07.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 14:07.55 | Pali | why talk.maemo.org will not be moved? |
| 14:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not exactly maemo.org infra |
| 14:08.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's owned by Reggie so far, and hosted somewhere in USA |
| 14:08.42 | Pali | it will not be part of maemo.org (or new domain/infra) now? |
| 14:08.45 | MohammadAG | Does maemo.org live on my LAN? |
| 14:09.05 | MohammadAG | Cause it went down after DocScrutinizer05's notice |
| 14:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: that's still under heavy discussion. I'm all for moving the hosting of tmo to same servers as the rest of *mo, others claim that for obscure legal reasons it has to stay in USA |
| 14:10.54 | Pali | btw what happend with integration of single sign on for tmo too? |
| 14:11.09 | Pali | to use maemo.org account also for tmo login? |
| 14:11.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm strongly suggesting to rather drop all accounts on tmo and require users to re-register if that's needed to allow moving of tmo to EU |
| 14:13.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | but unless somebody can explain to us what's the problem with moving tmo out of US and to EU, I'm not even willing to bother about that account dropping |
| 14:13.37 | RST38h | What obscure legal reasons? |
| 14:13.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't ask me, ask board |
| 14:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems they got a lawyer "working for them" for free |
| 14:15.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | this judgement seems actually like based on "free work" to me |
| 14:16.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | as in "well, I didn't look into what tmo actually is or which privacy or other data is in it, or which license applies to such data. I just can say there are generally possible issues with moving a server from US to EU" |
| 14:16.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly a statement I'd expect from a lawyer working "for free" |
| 14:17.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | me and jaffa both asked wtf is the actual particular problem with tmo - no answer |
| 14:18.53 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (lizardo@nat/indt/x-iypombllklnczqma) |
| 14:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw for all I understand about laws and stuff, it'd be Reggie who would "get sued" for not handling that alleged problematic data in a way not conforming the copyright policy he placed on his forum, when he hands that data to community (= board or council). I can't see any law the recipient of that database would break in receiving it |
| 14:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and Reggie seems has no such concerns, not at all |
| 14:22.38 | ShadowJK | I'd suspect it has more to do with data privacy acts |
| 14:22.59 | ShadowJK | and the impressum and records' keeping stuff |
| 14:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is no privacy data on tmo (except maybe PM) |
| 14:23.17 | ShadowJK | and let's not forget the cookie laws if it was to be moved to UK :P |
| 14:23.23 | RST38h | Of course there is |
| 14:23.36 | RST38h | There is amapping from posts to usernames and fromusernames to emails |
| 14:23.45 | ShadowJK | Everything the user enters when registering is "privacy data" |
| 14:24.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and how am I concerned about that when I receive that data from Reggie and start to host tmo on my own server? |
| 14:24.37 | RST38h | Get a lawyer! |
| 14:24.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq |
| 14:24.47 | ShadowJK | afaik, you need a list of the nature of that user data that you are storing, and the reason why you are storing it, and what use you will make of it |
| 14:24.49 | RST38h | laughs satanically |
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| 14:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | need for whom? |
| 14:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's going to ask me about that list? |
| 14:25.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even when somebody asks me, I'll just put up such list and happily hand it to him |
| 14:26.22 | ShadowJK | You're legally required to have such a document |
| 14:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | where's the problem? |
| 14:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | says who? |
| 14:26.41 | ShadowJK | it's the law |
| 14:26.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | where? |
| 14:26.49 | ShadowJK | EU |
| 14:26.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh! |
| 14:27.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | § please! |
| 14:27.32 | *** join/#maemo ferenc (~sopi@87.97.51.193.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 14:27.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never heard about any forum owner who got problems with any official document he needed to be allowed to run his forum |
| 14:28.09 | ShadowJK | It's not specific to forums |
| 14:28.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, so everybody owning a server needs such document or what? |
| 14:28.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, just entering sarcasm mode. No offense |
| 14:29.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | tries to chill |
| 14:29.11 | ShadowJK | No, everyone maintaining a customer database |
| 14:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | define customer |
| 14:29.44 | ShadowJK | Anyone using your services |
| 14:29.55 | flux | is it really a big deal to create such a document? |
| 14:30.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, I'm going to shut down maemo.cloud-7.de immediately |
| 14:30.38 | ShadowJK | You don't have a customer database? |
| 14:30.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure I have |
| 14:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are 9 accounts on that server, there are syslogs and whatnot |
| 14:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't know who the F will issue such magical document for me |
| 14:32.13 | ShadowJK | I know this applies to webshops and the like, but whether it also extends to community services like forums I don't know :) |
| 14:32.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know anybody in EU can require from any entity that stores parsonalized data about that individula to disclose them to that individula |
| 14:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/dula/dual/g |
| 14:33.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I never heard of any official document you'd need to run a webshop or whatever |
| 14:34.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | the less for running a forum |
| 14:34.18 | ShadowJK | It might be part of that same that disclosure thing you mentioned |
| 14:34.20 | *** join/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 14:34.48 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: but on the other hand you can go ~+10 in austria and almost nobody cares |
| 14:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, I'm NOT going to ask 20 lawyers until I find one who wants to earn a buck and tells me some random BS about such issue |
| 14:35.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: sorry? |
| 14:35.50 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: regarding speeding and jail |
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| 14:36.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: yep, if I'm storing personalized data, I have to tell which data this is, and even grant access or even deletion of such data to the "owner", the individual that such data is about |
| 14:37.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have absolutely zero problems with that in tmo context |
| 14:39.23 | *** join/#maemo Timo (~timo@unaffiliated/tiempjuuh) |
| 14:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually we already moved the problem from "it's not allowed to transfer a US located server to a EU located hosting" to "whoever will run tmo in the future has to fulfill some requirements specific to the country the server is located at, and board seems unwilling to deal with such requirements of EU for tmo migration" |
| 14:43.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I probably could accept such notion. I can't accept telling me "it can't be done since there are laws forbidding it" |
| 14:43.26 | ShadowJK | Anyways, there's lots of cheap hosting in the US, and in the long run we'd probably want to be able to run everything in random places anyway |
| 14:43.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 14:43.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | we want to run everything in ONE location |
| 14:43.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | not on the long run, but as soon as possible |
| 14:44.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | to minimize cost and administrative overhead |
| 14:45.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously the main part of *mo hosting is and will stay in EU, and if there are issues to move US based servers to EU, there are definitely MORE issues for the opposite direction |
| 14:45.46 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 14:45.51 | ShadowJK | I'm thinking of a setup where someone would be willing to donate spare bandwidth and/or cpu+ram on some server they own. Stuff like fileserving and autobuilders seem the easiest to make portable |
| 14:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not even thinking of stuff like that right now |
| 14:46.57 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (~berto@22.pool85-56-196.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 14:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't move a whole server and domain according to the month's best offer hosting |
| 14:47.30 | ShadowJK | It's not about moving |
| 14:47.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | then about what is it? |
| 14:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>we'd probably want to be able to run everything in random places anyway<< |
| 14:48.22 | Luke-Jr | ponders how little someone's time would need to be worth, to justify moving to the monthly cheapest server |
| 14:49.05 | ShadowJK | You have a frontend that delegates downloads or compilation requests to available machines (or VMs) in a pool, instead of having a fixed set of machines in the pool, you have a dynamic set, and with the ability to not have them all in one place, the frontend's job becomes to see which ones are available for service, and use those |
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| 14:52.03 | ShadowJK | Used to do this with a pre-packaged tarball of scripts and software. Untar, fire off the setup script and it compiled (in user's home dir) the software, synced data with master, and then checked in with master and assumed its role of mysql cache, fileserver, web server or whatever |
| 14:52.07 | *** join/#maemo w00d0ng50 (~androirc@114.201.19.206) |
| 14:52.31 | ShadowJK | today with VMs, it would be even easier and faster to setup |
| 15:00.43 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~quassel@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 15:05.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but that's absolutely not on our todo list right now |
| 15:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it has a very interesting aspect regarding that nonsensical servar location question: where is such a cloud based service actually located? basically still where the frontend sits, no? |
| 15:13.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the only 'solution' for tmo I could see in such a concept was to actually run the heavy stuff in a VM on the new EU based *mo infra, but keep a pro forma frontend in the USA to make it "look like" we're hosting tmo there |
| 15:14.23 | *** join/#maemo WielkiTost (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 15:14.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't feel right |
| 15:17.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway who's actually legally responsible for a server? the one who runs the hardware, the one who pays for it, or the admin in chief? |
| 15:17.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the latter, the solution is easy: board doesn't do admin of tmo, and finds someone willing to take responsibility |
| 15:17.44 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-54fb8e-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:19.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it seems they already did |
| 15:19.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | OHNOES, it's meeeeee! :-S |
| 15:27.19 | *** part/#maemo ferenc (~sopi@87.97.51.193.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 15:39.58 | *** part/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~MetalGear@175.142.13.211) |
| 15:53.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | is any of the maemo services already down? |
| 15:58.56 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 16:02.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and once the data is in the EU, we just silently move the frontend there? |
| 16:03.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I don't see any sense in such a procedure |
| 16:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | see my last 3 posts above |
| 16:06.18 | kerio | to reduce strain on the whole thing |
| 16:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is no strain |
| 16:07.00 | kerio | oh, http redirects |
| 16:07.01 | kerio | :s |
| 16:09.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly this idea is mere academic, we got no manpower to do such virtualization and cloud based hosting, and there's no obvious advantage in implementing it right now. And the problems with migration of whole *mo are not targeted by it either. |
| 16:16.09 | Jaffa | Regarding the conversation a couple of hours ago, Data Protection Act doesn't apply IIRC: it's either not customer data (because it's not particularly personally identifiable) or because it's just an address book |
| 16:16.19 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: RST38h: ^ |
| 16:16.59 | Jaffa | However, all of the stuff about that would apply to the existing Garage accounts which Nemein are already hosting. So, I don't see why *moving* the TMO data would be an issue beyond any Data Protection stuff that is already applicable (or not) |
| 16:30.36 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@bzq-79-179-229-221.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 16:30.36 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@funtoo/user/ZogG) |
| 16:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: indeed, but it seems in board is a severe dislike of touching the whole tmo consolidation topic, see the last mail on ML which I forwarded since I don't think such stuff can sanely be handled "behind the walls" |
| 16:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: what became of your query about the reasons for that? Seems nobody answered your questions either. Or did they answer in private as with that last mail for me? |
| 16:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: anyway we all are only mere mortals, not "lawyer working for free" |
| 16:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it doesn't matter what we think and what we ask |
| 16:41.23 | spoofy | Hello :) I need an advice - Which battery will be better? (amazon.de links) this one > http://tinyurl.com/comqh8m < tested by dr_frost_dk (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568) or this one > http://tinyurl.com/cbksqp9 1550mAh? |
| 16:42.01 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: No reply, and saw the one you posted. |
| 16:42.04 | internetishard | After fmms runs my connection stays on MMS, shouldn't it change back to internet connection? |
| 16:42.13 | spoofy | I wanna hear some opinion :) |
| 16:43.11 | kerio | i thought fmms used a separate connection |
| 16:43.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | spoofy: nfc |
| 16:46.00 | spoofy | DocScrutinizer05: why? |
| 16:46.01 | ShadowJK | spoofy; I would trust dr_frost_dk |
| 16:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | spoofy: because I haven't tested either of both |
| 16:46.55 | spoofy | ShadowJK: both are same manufacturer |
| 16:47.08 | spoofy | akku-king is newer |
| 16:47.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure? |
| 16:47.15 | spoofy | Yeap |
| 16:47.20 | spoofy | Akku |
| 16:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what's the problem? |
| 16:47.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | is this a pun? |
| 16:47.57 | spoofy | I don't know. I want to hear some opinion |
| 16:48.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's "Akku"? |
| 16:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | except the german word for rechargable battery |
| 16:48.49 | spoofy | akku is the name of manufacturer |
| 16:49.01 | spoofy | I think.. |
| 16:49.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way |
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| 18:36.44 | Guest99148 | t |
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| 18:53.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~botsnack |
| 18:53.26 | infobot | aw, gee, DocScrutinizer51 |
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| 20:35.27 | Macer | hm |
| 20:35.39 | Macer | hello |
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| 21:34.34 | _rd | Hi, do I need to do something to keep the network up in a python command line application, which does socket communication. |
| 21:42.20 | kerio | _rd: huh? |
| 21:42.30 | kerio | _rd: which application? which sockets? |
| 21:42.35 | kerio | why aren't you using twisted already? |
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| 21:51.47 | _rd | kerio: what is twisted? |
| 21:51.56 | _rd | I write my own small app. |
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| 21:53.50 | kerio | _rd: is it async? |
| 21:56.13 | _rd | yes |
| 21:56.18 | _rd | http://bokomoko.de/~rd/track-bike.py |
| 21:56.25 | kerio | does it handle EAGAIN? |
| 21:56.28 | _rd | nothing sophisticated |
| 21:57.15 | kerio | oh, it's not actually async |
| 21:57.56 | _rd | I think I need something continuously using the network, such as jabber to make it work reasonably reliably |
| 21:58.47 | _rd | what you cannot see in the script, there is a wrapper script for this script, basically calling it again, when it exits. |
| 21:59.12 | _rd | I am sure there is a lot of room for improvement in this script |
| 21:59.27 | _rd | ...and feedback is more than welcome :-) |
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| 23:20.12 | Macer | trying to get a damn e7 on ebay |
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| 23:35.12 | nox- | http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Power-Supply.aspx |
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| 23:47.59 | SpeedEvil | why e7? |
| 23:50.00 | SpeedEvil | it would be interesting to find out if those power supplies are sanely rated |
| 23:50.16 | SpeedEvil | and constructed |
| 23:51.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed they should meet specs for human medical equipment, which I'm quite sure no chinese PSU does |
| 23:52.40 | SpeedEvil | I opened a power supply I got for a pound shipped, and to my surprise, found 5mm clearance on the PCB |
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| 23:53.04 | SpeedEvil | I'm about to dossasemble one to see what the transformer insolation is |
| 23:53.10 | SpeedEvil | insulation |