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| 01:54.23 | freddddiiiii | Google shutdown Exchange service. |
| 01:54.24 | freddddiiiii | What do? |
| 02:06.50 | Luke-Jr | freddddiiiii: learn your lesson not to depend on others for your service? |
| 02:09.05 | freddddiiiii | Luke-Jr, can you be a bit more specific? |
| 02:09.13 | jon_y | he means run your own server, get an NX domain |
| 02:09.17 | Luke-Jr | MX* |
| 02:09.23 | jon_y | right |
| 02:09.31 | freddddiiiii | Ah. |
| 02:09.52 | freddddiiiii | Are you implying every owner is geek enough and interested enough to run and manage their own server? |
| 02:09.57 | freddddiiiii | N900* |
| 02:10.15 | jon_y | you better be if you hope to use email one day :) |
| 02:10.39 | jon_y | or just stick to using facebook chat |
| 02:10.47 | freddddiiiii | Not interested to cash out more than one hundred euros on cash every year. |
| 02:10.57 | freddddiiiii | To sync stuff, where as it can be obtained for free. |
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| 02:11.48 | freddddiiiii | Is there no CardDev solution available for the N900? |
| 02:11.56 | freddddiiiii | Dav* |
| 02:12.44 | jon_y | sorry, never used that |
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| 02:13.52 | gregoa | freemangordon: syncevolution speaks caldav and carddav |
| 02:15.42 | Luke-Jr | freemangordon: so why are you using Exchange garbage? ;) |
| 02:17.11 | gregoa | gnarf, this freddddiiiii left, and now Luke-Jr and me hilight poor fmg |
| 02:17.20 | Luke-Jr | XD |
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| 06:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | one thing's for sure: there is no such thing like "something for free" |
| 06:51.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | (([2012-12-16 03:10:56] <freddddiiiii> To sync stuff, where as it can be obtained for free.)) |
| 06:52.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you always pay, just currency changes |
| 06:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | the two most common currencies in age of internet are attention and data about user |
| 07:17.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | when a "free" service offer doesn't "pay" anymore - like syncing services maybe don't bring much new address data and also don't yield a way to gain the "customer's" attention like a webservice would - they'll eventually get discontinued |
| 07:20.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | mail providers like web.de never get tired to lure their customers into a contract for "pro-mail", and of course they send SPAM that passes every of their spamfilters |
| 07:21.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus they can analyze each and every transferred mail, even when they say they don't do that |
| 07:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | a sync service doesn't pay back that nicely, in that regard |
| 07:24.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | google documents - yeah, great for data mining. Syncing contacts and appointments? not so much, pretty meaningless data for any metrics of a big business |
| 07:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | location aware services: excellent. map&routing with AGPS (supl) pretty nice. map with onboard routing and non-A (non-supl) GPS: boring |
| 07:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | google glass: make users pay money for paying attention and paying with their data. Brilliant |
| 07:31.34 | Luke-Jr | eh? Google Glass isn't just hardware? |
| 07:31.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, it's a concept |
| 07:31.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | 100% location aware services |
| 07:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh 1000% |
| 07:35.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | amazon kindle et al is another nice concept: make users pay more for getting less and losing that little that they get way sooner than they'd lose a paper book |
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| 07:39.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway get it: not a single company on this earth (except maybe Butan Gvmt) has "happy customer" as their main business goal |
| 07:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hums "Sheep" of Pink Floyd |
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| 07:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqlsVZ1zxMk |
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| 08:12.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly sorry, I shouldn't paste a single soung out of a concept album. So: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RpcT06rcog |
| 08:12.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/soung/song/ |
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| 08:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | figures RST38h posting that citation including Bhutan Gvmt in some random other channel ;-) |
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| 10:44.00 | kerio | another example of the fuckedupness of maemo's sudo |
| 10:44.21 | kerio | it'll happily ask for a password when there's no tty, thus not enabling noecho |
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| 10:45.09 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we need a new sudo |
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| 10:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
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| 10:47.45 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: steps to reproduce: ssh n900 sudo ls |
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| 10:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 10:52.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that this makes any sense to me |
| 10:52.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sudo ls won't work anyway |
| 10:53.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and ssh access to my N900 is generally root |
| 10:53.10 | kerio | well, your n900 is seriously weird |
| 10:53.55 | kerio | admittedly, it's the default configuration |
| 10:53.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | err wait, sudo ls might work, but asks for password |
| 10:54.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: that's the point |
| 10:54.12 | kerio | it asks for the password, and the password is not hidden as you type it |
| 10:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | locally it is |
| 10:54.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | via ssh prolly not |
| 10:55.03 | kerio | yep, that's the point |
| 10:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it's basically not meant to get used that way |
| 10:55.11 | kerio | try doing the same thing with a real linux system |
| 10:55.23 | kerio | "sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified" |
| 10:55.39 | Luke-Jr | try with ssh -t |
| 10:55.45 | kerio | Luke-Jr: i know |
| 10:55.57 | Luke-Jr | I know you know. |
| 10:56.03 | kerio | i know you know i know |
| 10:56.08 | kerio | now |
| 10:56.25 | kerio | i didn't know you knew i knew |
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| 11:00.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: "sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified" means you can't enter password, since askpass wouldn't work via ssh |
| 11:00.42 | kerio | exactly, *you can't enter the password* |
| 11:00.48 | kerio | which is the sensible behaviour |
| 11:01.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | we found maemo sudo doesn't support askpass (among other nice stuff that would suggest to get a newer version, to get rid of update-sudoers for example) |
| 11:01.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | a few months ago |
| 11:02.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | actiually a few years ago |
| 11:02.40 | kerio | [2005-11-08] Sudo version 1.6.8p12 released. |
| 11:05.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still wonder how to easily fix that HAM / sudo apt-worker fsckup |
| 11:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | so that starting HAM would ask for a password, and no cheap trickery on xterm will offer a workaround via apt-worker or starting HAM-real or sending some freaky dbus message |
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| 11:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, even my http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_6210 had the concept of a SIM PIN and a device PIN |
| 11:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you could set up the phone so it allows only speeddial calls or addressbook calls, and you'd need the device PIN to change that |
| 11:09.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ideal for setting up the phone for your kids |
| 11:09.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 you can't set up for your kids |
| 11:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike any other linux system |
| 11:10.53 | Pali | at least because sudo gainroot working without password |
| 11:10.55 | kerio | well, you can just remove the HAM entries in sudoers(.d) |
| 11:11.05 | kerio | Pali: sudo gainroot requires RD mode by default |
| 11:11.11 | kerio | it's that rootsh abomination that changes it to always work |
| 11:11.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you can't set the n900 up for your kids because crypt() sucks and it's easily reversed |
| 11:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: not on my N900 |
| 11:12.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you still made an unnatural modification to /sbin/gainroot |
| 11:12.56 | Pali | so go to push fixed package to extras-devel! |
| 11:13.04 | kerio | which, by the way, goes against the dpkg standards |
| 11:13.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | pfff |
| 11:13.21 | Pali | in extras-devel is still bad sudo gainroot |
| 11:13.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: blame your doc for making unhealthy surgery to that cancer |
| 11:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: and don't get me started which standards /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo violates |
| 11:16.20 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, which value should bq2415x_charger.ko use as default for charge_current and termination_current? |
| 11:16.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why? |
| 11:17.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: termination_current should be ~80..100mA |
| 11:18.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know that's a lot, but we need that to compensate for system current usage on top of charging current |
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| 11:19.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | charge_current is what? max battery charging current? |
| 11:19.55 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, BME using 100mA for wallcharger and 150mA for usb. charge21.sh using 150mA |
| 11:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: makes sense since with USB it always eats 60mA for musb-core alone. But it also does that when on fastcharger, since PR1.2(?) kernel |
| 11:21.36 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, charge_current means Charge current sense voltage, register 0x04, bits 4-7 |
| 11:21.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | for MAX current? |
| 11:22.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | alias for the ConstantCurrent phase of charging? |
| 11:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably |
| 11:22.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it should be like 66% C, aka 800mA |
| 11:23.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | 100% is max for some battery cells, but it wears them out rather quickly |
| 11:23.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | C is Capacity |
| 11:23.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | == 1320mAh which means 100 is 1320mA |
| 11:23.58 | Pali | not max current limit (that is 500mA for usb and unlimited for wallcharger) |
| 11:24.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | DANG |
| 11:24.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | == 1320mAh which means 100% C is 1320mA |
| 11:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's USB current limit, not cell charging ConstantCurrent "limit" |
| 11:24.49 | Pali | BME set 550-650mA for wallcharger and 950 for usb. charge21.sh set 950mA. |
| 11:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | now THAT make no sense at all |
| 11:26.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe BME sets USB curlim to 550mA (should be 500mA) for *USB*, and 950mA for fastcharger |
| 11:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | charge21.sh is known to violate charging requirements for USB-hosts |
| 11:27.57 | Pali | see: http://www.ti.com/product/bq24150a and look for register 0x04, bits 4-6 |
| 11:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically your bq2415x_charger.ko should start with USB curlim = 100mA, then switch to 950mA when fastcharger detected, and to 500mA after successful ENUM with USB-host |
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| 11:29.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I spent literally weeks of my life reading this datasheet |
| 11:29.26 | Pali | that is current limit and that already doing |
| 11:29.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I'm a bit reluctant to open it again and find the relevant parts |
| 11:29.46 | Pali | but i'm asking about charge current sense |
| 11:29.56 | Pali | page 30 |
| 11:29.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is the bupbat recovery 100mA for that reason? |
| 11:30.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | charge current sense is for ConstantCurrent phase of CCCV, and limits max current into cell for charging |
| 11:30.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | it mustn't be >0.7C |
| 11:30.51 | Pali | kerio, current limit can be set to one value: 100, 500, 800, unlimited |
| 11:30.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | so see my comments above |
| 11:31.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, that's USB curlim afaik |
| 11:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yep |
| 11:31.42 | kerio | sounds like a crappy reason :s |
| 11:31.57 | kerio | fucking usb certification |
| 11:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | but emergency charging detects fastcharger in HW |
| 11:32.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and switches to unlimited then |
| 11:32.25 | kerio | but only for half an hour |
| 11:32.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the reason why we got 1707 PHY |
| 11:32.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: 30min are enough to get the system into bootable state |
| 11:33.12 | kerio | not enough to reflash |
| 11:33.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a completely different topic |
| 11:34.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not enough to reflash since NOLO decides it's not enough |
| 11:34.36 | kerio | it's not enough to boot from ram either, right? |
| 11:34.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and instead of doing proper charging itself, NOLO boots up a possibly borked linux to do the charging there. Now THAT is brainfuck |
| 11:34.47 | kerio | thankfully i've got rescueOS installed on-device to charge |
| 11:35.09 | Pali | btw, nolo has support for bq2415x |
| 11:35.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually enough to "boot from RAM" |
| 11:35.15 | Pali | see console dump from nolo |
| 11:35.46 | kerio | but nolo won't let you enter flashing mode? |
| 11:35.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: it has support, but doesn't dare to charge sufficiently to allow flashing |
| 11:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: exactly |
| 11:36.12 | kerio | fun |
| 11:36.31 | kerio | oh well, uboot to the rescue |
| 11:36.47 | kerio | charge with emergency charging a bit, then boot from uSD or whatever into something with proper charging |
| 11:37.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not let uBoot do the charging business itself? |
| 11:37.30 | kerio | because uboot can't do that right now |
| 11:37.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | porting charge21.sh to uBoot script should be simple as milk |
| 11:37.44 | Pali | because X-Loader cannot start uboot |
| 11:37.48 | Pali | we still need nolo |
| 11:37.50 | kerio | what i said is actually doable at the moment |
| 11:38.10 | Pali | porting charge21.sh to uboot is not really hard |
| 11:38.11 | kerio | Pali: nolo will charge enough to load uboot |
| 11:38.22 | Pali | but if you do not have uboot?? |
| 11:38.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | and uBoot easily can charge |
| 11:38.31 | kerio | Pali: then you're fucked, duh |
| 11:38.47 | kerio | s/'re fucked/use a different charger/ |
| 11:38.53 | kerio | dammit spaces |
| 11:38.57 | Pali | btw, usb boot (aka cold-flashing) working also on totaly empty battery |
| 11:38.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | then your only chance is to 'coldflash' a patched NOLO to RAM |
| 11:39.32 | Pali | and then NOLO show blinking USB flashing icon |
| 11:39.43 | Pali | and no usb device is found... |
| 11:40.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | bbl o/ |
| 11:40.12 | Pali | seems like NOLO tried to enable flashing but not enought power for something... (maybe it already booted cmt??) |
| 11:40.35 | Pali | so we need uboot which can be bootable from 2nd x-loader |
| 11:41.31 | kerio | Pali: we could just patch uboot so that it doesn't require a particular charge level to flash |
| 11:41.51 | Pali | kerio, problem is that uboot started from x-loader not working... |
| 11:41.57 | Pali | and I do not know why |
| 11:42.03 | Pali | in qemu it freeze |
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| 11:44.00 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, so which value use as default for charge current sense? valid are: 550, 650, 750, 850 or 950 mA? |
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| 11:47.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | 850 |
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| 11:54.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: btw charge current possible settings: 550 + 400 + 200 + 100 |
| 11:54.15 | ShadowJK | charge current sense? |
| 11:54.28 | ShadowJK | afaik bme usually does 950 |
| 11:54.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | a tad high |
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| 11:54.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | though it's incl system |
| 11:55.01 | ShadowJK | nah it's approximatelu .7C excl system |
| 11:55.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 950 might be ok |
| 11:55.05 | Pali | [12:24:49] <Pali> BME set 550-650mA for wallcharger and 950 for usb. charge21.sh set 950mA. |
| 11:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: exactly what I said |
| 11:55.30 | ShadowJK | I've seen bme set 950 on wall |
| 11:55.55 | Pali | ok, then I set default value to 950 too |
| 11:56.05 | ShadowJK | But, bme also has some logic that steps down current if it gets undervolt error from 24150 |
| 11:56.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-16 12:25:21] <DocScrutinizer05> now THAT make no sense at all |
| 11:56.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-16 12:26:05] <DocScrutinizer05> maybe BME sets USB curlim to 550mA (should be 500mA) for *USB*, and 950mA for fastcharger |
| 11:56.43 | ShadowJK | input limit can be set to 100, 500, 800 or unlimited |
| 11:57.21 | Pali | ok, and for termination current? 100 or 150mA? |
| 11:57.37 | ShadowJK | with pk I'd use 50 |
| 11:57.45 | ShadowJK | on usb charging I'd use 150 |
| 11:58.00 | ShadowJK | (due to extra load from usb) |
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| 11:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Reg01-B7:6 00-USB host with 100-mA current limit, 01-USB host with 500-mA current limit, 10-USB host/charger with 800-mA current limit, 11-No input current limit (default 00) |
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| 12:03.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: that's about *defaults* |
| 12:03.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so i'd go for 150 rather than 50 |
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| 12:04.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all "keep backlight on while charging" isn't exactly an unusual config option |
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| 12:05.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/extra load from usb/extra load by musb-core/ |
| 12:06.00 | kerio | always locks |
| 12:06.00 | Lava_Croft | i always have it on |
| 12:06.11 | Lava_Croft | unless im sleeping orso |
| 12:06.36 | Lava_Croft | n900 makes for a rather overpowered shower radio |
| 12:07.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so what do we do with your staement "I alsways lock"? count you in to the crowd we don't talk about right here? |
| 12:07.31 | kerio | :( |
| 12:08.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | look, Lava_Croft is already one user that actually *is* using this option, so it doesn't matter if you lock or not |
| 12:08.21 | kerio | shakes his fist at Lava_Croft |
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| 12:10.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you again fell for your very usual misconception: defaults are not to meet your preferences but to be the most universal least restricting and savest choice |
| 12:11.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't like them you're free to change them |
| 12:11.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why they're called defaults and not "hard coded optimum values" |
| 12:13.30 | kerio | but the gnome devs told me that they're the same! |
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| 12:14.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | the same what? also trolls? |
| 12:15.18 | kerio | defaults and hard coded "optimum" values :P |
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| 12:18.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, yes they're *absolutely* right on that... for their own s***t |
| 12:20.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, it a secret they don't usually like to reveil: they learnt that from windows |
| 12:22.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | like they learnt from windows to have a separate program for cat'ing files in /etc, and one for files in /home, and one for files in /var |
| 12:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | one paint program for green background pictures, one for red background |
| 12:23.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | one that allows to paint and save to /home/user/acmepaint.png [sic!] and one that allows to paint and then resize to US-letter format and print |
| 12:25.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes a mental post-it note to check if gnomevfs been invented by Lennart |
| 12:26.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | still taking bets |
| 12:28.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/reveil/unveil/ |
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| 12:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, actually nope, he's not even in favor for gnomevfs: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/gnomevfs-future.html |
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| 12:44.22 | kerio | >why don't we use POSIX |
| 12:44.26 | kerio | for fuck's sake lennart |
| 12:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Also, this way we can escape the "abstraction trap". Let's KDE play the abstraction game, maybe they'll grow up eventually and learn that abstracting abstracted abstraction layers is child's play.<< :-D |
| 12:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^this article is so abolutely non-poettering, and gnomevfs actuall so much *is* poettering... My world is shaking |
| 12:50.40 | kerio | aren't you a KDE user? |
| 12:50.43 | kerio | KIO does that too |
| 12:50.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know, and I pretty much hate it |
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| 13:06.45 | ShadowJK | I think the "ideal" would be to adjust termination current depending on the situation |
| 13:07.55 | ShadowJK | Kdevfs and gnomevfs suck, plan9 is the way |
| 13:07.58 | ShadowJK | ;) |
| 13:08.21 | kerio | we need a h-d port for plan 9 |
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| 13:16.06 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, do you know what happen with maemo.org after Dec 31? |
| 13:16.13 | Pali | will be maemo.org migrated? |
| 13:16.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 13:16.34 | Pali | 100% ? |
| 13:16.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | if Nokia/Nemein finally follows up on handing-over task |
| 13:17.40 | Pali | who will do migration? will you have admin rights for maemo.org? or will nokia/nemein copy data to new servers? |
| 13:18.41 | Pali | and what will be migrated? full *.maemo.org domain with subdomains? |
| 13:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: (adjusting termination current) then we don't need to use termination current at all, and revert to reading true battery current from bq27200 and stop charging when it trips arbitrary levels set on the charger.ko sysfs for it |
| 13:19.02 | Pali | or should be backup other something?? |
| 13:20.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: the plan is that Nokia transfers complete *.maemo.org admin-c plus content resp root access to board |
| 13:21.02 | Pali | so you have 3/4 days for it... |
| 13:22.11 | Pali | btw, what happened with maemo OBS? |
| 13:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas right now it seems (I say 'it seems' since I got all that second hand from board members) that Nokia decided to instruct Nemein to move the servers to some new property hardware that Nemein is about to buy and colocate-host $anywhere, and Nemein shall do that migration to that new hw, and eventually hand board the access credentials |
| 13:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no answer from anybody of Nokia7Nemein regarding what's state of that process, not to think about discussing it to find better more affordable more 'sane' alternatives |
| 13:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems Nokia is willing to keep 'their' servers running for another 1 or 2 months |
| 13:25.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | which doesn't exactly apply for tmo, where Nokia stops funding on 2013-01-01 |
| 13:27.26 | Pali | so what will happen with TMO? |
| 13:28.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically Nokia does what they always did: shut up and don't say a word, meh a syllable, until eventually they 'code-drop' throw the whole 'blob' over the wall, "take it or leave it" |
| 13:29.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | for tmo there's a hefty discussion whether to pay Reggie another month of server hosting, so we could establish something decent well thought, or move it to a vserver for 12EUR per month, or move it to a decent dedicated server that would suffice to host *.maemo.orh as well eventually |
| 13:32.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | the estimations for the task of setting up a new host with vBulletin and move tmo over to there already vary between "meh, 2 hours at most" and "don't hope for any non-practicing casual admin doing that during one full weekend, including setup of proper mailing and all" |
| 13:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | those who think the task can be done in 2 hours favour the 12EUR interim server approach |
| 13:34.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think we should pay Reggie another month and stop acting in panic mode and rather accept we don't get stuff accomplished til new year, and already start on the more "long-term" (as in: 6 weeks isntead <2 weeks) migration job |
| 13:35.35 | Pali | ok |
| 13:35.54 | Pali | new kernel-power build is here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1305042#post1305042 |
| 13:36.11 | Pali | kerio ^^^ |
| 13:36.32 | Pali | it should be final v52 |
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| 14:01.29 | kerio | Pali: have you "fixed" profiled yet, btw? |
| 14:01.36 | Pali | kerio, in git |
| 14:05.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: my plans were to get a dedicated server today and use that to "donate" it to maemo.org. But right now I'm busy to check if somebody rooted my known cloud7 box a few days back |
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| 14:07.11 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: that would be bad! |
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| 14:19.37 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: when you say move to a single server, do you mean a single dedicated server hosting our VMs, or actually putting every service on the same box? |
| 14:19.57 | kerio | because i wouldn't want the autobuilder together with the other things |
| 14:20.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: could you deliver better arguments that "I wouldn't want"? |
| 14:21.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | (not saying that I'm not a friend of VM) |
| 14:21.25 | kerio | compiling is an heavy task, and shoving it in a limited VM is easier than setting up the proper ulimits for every build |
| 14:21.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 14:21.57 | kerio | building stuff could slow down everything else |
| 14:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | renice 10 autobuilder |
| 14:23.00 | kerio | doesn't really stop it from consuming ungodly amounts of ram |
| 14:23.21 | ShadowJK | I'd worry more about the wiki and forums, those things tend to be heavy |
| 14:24.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so what's the benefit regarding RAM usage then, when putting it into a VM? |
| 14:24.44 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's much easier to cap it |
| 14:24.48 | kerio | in fact, you *have* to cap it |
| 14:24.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't 'cap' RAM usage |
| 14:25.09 | kerio | the VM has a limited amount of RAM |
| 14:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you accept sth like OOM killing your process |
| 14:26.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | right, it has a limited amount of simulated RAM, and a simulated swap for anything that needs more than that |
| 14:26.56 | ShadowJK | just uninstall the c++ compiler, memory use goes down with plain C ;) |
| 14:27.06 | kerio | ShadowJK: if only |
| 14:27.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and in the end everything will eventually end in real swap, with real IO on a real disk, no matter how many virtualization levels in between |
| 14:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, a real 'file' |
| 14:28.23 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, do we know where is problem in wiki? |
| 14:28.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kinda |
| 14:28.59 | Pali | database corrupted or uncompatible script in mediawiki? |
| 14:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | they did an update to the wiki software, and their 'proprietary' mudules are incompatible to that new version |
| 14:29.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably single signon plugin |
| 14:29.39 | Pali | so after maemo.org will be transferred, can we modify & fix that module? |
| 14:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's hope we can, since I'm rather sure they won't fix it before |
| 14:31.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | X-Fade doesn't answer to any requests for sharing sourcecode of those plugins/modules, nor for ETA of fix or status of work on a fix, nor anything else |
| 14:32.25 | kerio | Pali: hmm, fiasco-update-image-ask didn't identify the currently-flashed uboot+kp |
| 14:32.42 | Pali | and what it shown? |
| 14:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: basically I think your approach is similar to mine, just liked to play avocado salsa diaboli |
| 14:32.57 | Pali | hm, and what is here? https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=maemo2midgard |
| 14:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be parts of the sourcecode we need to fix, though I'm not sure since we have no access to the servers to get decent diagnostic output of what's going haywire |
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| 14:34.56 | kerio | meh, it's not going to be *that* hard to fix, mediawiki is opensource |
| 14:34.57 | kerio | understates |
| 14:35.53 | kerio | Pali: flashed kp52-latest, it booted |
| 14:36.03 | Pali | I'd like to use some wiki which has stored data in git :-) |
| 14:38.21 | kerio | Pali: hostdevice2 is new in the latest KP, right? |
| 14:38.29 | Pali | yes |
| 14:38.50 | Pali | it is hint for last usbmode |
| 14:39.19 | kerio | neat |
| 14:40.29 | kerio | Pali: it still tries low before going to high :( |
| 14:40.39 | Pali | yes, it must |
| 14:42.45 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, there is something too: http://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/org.maemo.packages |
| 14:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: fine, alas I have not the competence nor the time to check what it is and whether it's helping our issue. |
| 14:54.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: suggestion: go to wiki, try to edit a page, see what "diagnostic" crap output you get, and maybe you can conclude from that which sourcecode we actually have to fix |
| 14:55.05 | Pali | already tried |
| 14:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ...since that's exactly as much info as I got |
| 14:55.31 | Pali | output is useless: http://pastebin.com/HB4JPzRt |
| 14:55.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know |
| 14:55.46 | Pali | it run some hook |
| 14:56.09 | Pali | and backtrace from hook is missing |
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| 15:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | anybody running a centOS here? |
| 15:07.52 | Aoyagi | Our office server does... |
| 15:07.58 | Aoyagi | isn't in the office |
| 15:08.14 | Aoyagi | Or have remote access. |
| 15:09.08 | kerio | i used to have an EC2 box, those run centOS |
| 15:10.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | would you happen to know if it's normal for centOS to have process 1 .. 5, then pid 10 kthread, 14 kblockd/0, 15 kacpid, the huge gap until next PID is 96 cqueue/0 ? |
| 15:11.03 | kerio | hm, never noticed that |
| 15:11.17 | kerio | but it's not something that i would've necessarily paid attention to |
| 15:11.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | same here |
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| 15:12.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | until I got concerned about mysql, php, python, httpd whatnot else segfaulting like mad a few days ago |
| 15:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | which finally resulted in whole machine going offline for 15 min |
| 15:12.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl znc |
| 15:12.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and munin |
| 15:13.25 | kerio | if you find yourself considering the possibility that someone untrusted got root, you probably need to reinstall it |
| 15:13.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd hardly accomplish that |
| 15:13.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a vserver |
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| 15:28.15 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: still the weird PID distribution? |
| 15:28.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 15:28.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | identical |
| 15:33.18 | luf | I'm running a CentOS. |
| 15:35.40 | luf | DocScrutinizer05: what version of centos? |
| 15:37.24 | luf | I naver paid attention. I see no such hole and ktrheaded has PID 2 |
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| 15:39.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | luf: top output: |
| 15:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:39.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | luf: how to check versionß |
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| 15:40.11 | luf | cat /proc/redhat-release |
| 15:40.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat: /proc/redhat-release: No such file or directory |
| 15:41.30 | luf | DocScrutinizer05: I have running several active processes ... |
| 15:42.22 | luf | Sorry /etc/ of course :D |
| 15:42.34 | luf | cat /etc/redhat-release |
| 15:42.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | CentOS release 5.8 (Final) |
| 15:43.03 | luf | Hmm I have 6.3 ... |
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| 16:20.15 | qwazix | freemangordon, fixed rawcam on it's way to devel, thanks a lot. |
| 16:20.38 | freemangordon | qwazix: great |
| 16:20.42 | freemangordon | what was the problem |
| 16:21.21 | qwazix | stupidness :) I forgot to run setOverlay to give my derived QApplication access to the overlay widget |
| 16:21.37 | qwazix | so I was calling the destructor on an empty pointer |
| 16:21.42 | freemangordon | ooh |
| 16:22.31 | qwazix | thus the segfault... |
| 16:22.42 | freemangordon | yeah, I see |
| 16:23.34 | qwazix | now time to investigate why it doesn't launch on harmattan pr1.2 (and only that) |
| 16:23.41 | freemangordon | does that fiz camera-ui? |
| 16:23.47 | freemangordon | *fix |
| 16:23.53 | qwazix | yes |
| 16:24.51 | freemangordon | great |
| 16:24.53 | qwazix | retroactively. I tried first with the broken rawcam, camera-ui crashed, fixed it, closed it normally and camera-ui words |
| 16:24.59 | qwazix | s/words/works |
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| 16:52.29 | vi_ | freemangordon: ping |
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| 16:52.40 | freemangordon | vi_: pong |
| 16:53.12 | vi_ | have you RE tklock? |
| 16:53.23 | freemangordon | vi_: yes |
| 16:53.37 | freemangordon | powerkeymenu too |
| 16:53.39 | vi_ | you are incredible. |
| 16:53.46 | freemangordon | I know :P |
| 16:53.54 | vi_ | heh. |
| 16:54.08 | freemangordon | though tklock has a small glitch, but I don;t have time to fix it |
| 16:54.18 | freemangordon | will do it ofc |
| 16:54.32 | kerio | well, it wasn't really a RE, it was a complete rewrite |
| 16:54.42 | kerio | which is even better :D |
| 16:54.42 | freemangordon | kerio: tklock was RE |
| 16:54.54 | freemangordon | powerkeymenu is a rewrite, correct |
| 16:55.32 | vi_ | does that mean it is now theoretically possible to remove the slide to unlock screen and just have double power button press to unlock? |
| 16:55.45 | freemangordon | kerio: BTW apt-get install mp-fremante-generic-pr gave "missing packages" |
| 16:55.57 | freemangordon | vi_: in theory - yes |
| 16:57.46 | kerio | freemangordon: after an apt-get update? |
| 16:58.18 | freemangordon | kerio: after apt-get update/upgrade, reboot, apt-get install mp-fremante-generic-pr |
| 16:58.32 | freemangordon | only stock repos enabled |
| 16:58.54 | kerio | which packages are missing? |
| 16:59.20 | freemangordon | however, i'll have the device in my hands in an hour or so, it was a lady on the other side of the skype chat, so I am not aware of the details :D |
| 16:59.55 | freemangordon | I am just wondering if repos are FUBAR |
| 17:00.32 | freemangordon | vi_: if you find some GTK guy, something similar to harm lock screen can be implemented |
| 17:00.48 | freemangordon | vi_: I am just not that good (if at all) with GTK |
| 17:01.54 | freemangordon | ar something like - if there is a missed even(call, mail, sms, etc) to open the relevant application by swiping the icon, etc |
| 17:02.13 | vi_ | what lady? |
| 17:02.24 | freemangordon | a friend of mine |
| 17:03.07 | freemangordon | she has n900. and she convinced her father and several of his coleagues to by n900 :D:D:D |
| 17:03.20 | kerio | that's definetely a mistake :s |
| 17:03.42 | Sicelo | kerio: +1 |
| 17:03.44 | Sicelo | :P |
| 17:03.54 | vi_ | oh dear. |
| 17:03.56 | kerio | three layers of indirection for tech support? |
| 17:03.59 | freemangordon | kerio: why? new deviceces with 2 years of warranty from the MNO, for the price of ~100 euros each |
| 17:04.11 | vi_ | I do not wish n900 on anyone. |
| 17:04.20 | freemangordon | i'd said thats a deal |
| 17:04.20 | kerio | freemangordon: :O |
| 17:04.25 | kerio | i want some of those |
| 17:04.28 | vi_ | freemangordon: what! |
| 17:04.34 | freemangordon | unfortunately no way |
| 17:04.41 | vi_ | n900, 100 euro, brand new??? |
| 17:04.45 | freemangordon | ъеп |
| 17:04.46 | Aoyagi | Where? |
| 17:04.48 | freemangordon | yep |
| 17:04.59 | freemangordon | but they have some corporate discount |
| 17:05.18 | freemangordon | Aoyagi: Bulgaria |
| 17:05.23 | Aoyagi | Oh... |
| 17:07.57 | freemangordon | <vi_> I do not wish n900 on anyone. |
| 17:07.59 | freemangordon | why? |
| 17:08.06 | freemangordon | I really don;t get it |
| 17:08.38 | freemangordon | besides me none of those I know that own n900 around me is a developer |
| 17:08.56 | freemangordon | all of them are extremely happy with their device |
| 17:08.59 | freemangordon | *devices |
| 17:09.01 | vi_ | n900 is the GREATEST device EVER made. |
| 17:09.34 | vi_ | however to exploit its real potential you have to know a thing or 2 about computers. |
| 17:09.55 | freemangordon | I know, thats why I asked why you wouldn't recommend it. Though TBH I didn't recommend it too |
| 17:10.13 | freemangordon | for the exactly same reason |
| 17:10.42 | freemangordon | but for 100 euros... really , thats a deal |
| 17:11.05 | vi_ | I will take 3 please. are they still available? |
| 17:11.50 | freemangordon | vi_: no, it is some corporate discount, with such a terms, that even the lady was unable to get a second device |
| 17:12.10 | freemangordon | bought by her father |
| 17:12.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! |
| 17:13.40 | freemangordon | yeah. |
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| 17:14.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh i'm not that interested in the discount, rather in the source for brand new N900 |
| 17:15.24 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: MNO is vivacom, but one needs to sign a contract |
| 17:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeeek |
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| 17:16.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, as long as that contract doesn't cost me too much, I happily pay the 24 or whatever months of €€/month and get a N900 with warranty and all |
| 17:16.38 | freemangordon | yeah, iirc 1 year contract, 5 euros or something per month. and you get brand new n900 for ~230 euros |
| 17:17.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~230 + (12 * 5) |
| 17:17.02 | infobot | 290 |
| 17:17.07 | kerio | so that's 290€ for a new n900 huh |
| 17:17.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | deal! |
| 17:17.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | how many contracts may a single human sign with them? |
| 17:18.18 | kerio | freemangordon: are you sure it's a nokia n900 and not a nokia n9-00? |
| 17:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sounds strange |
| 17:18.54 | kerio | the vivacom website doesn't list the n900 |
| 17:21.52 | freemangordon | kerio: yeah, i know. but they sell them in stores |
| 17:22.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 17:22.13 | freemangordon | don;t ask me why |
| 17:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you get me two? |
| 17:22.25 | freemangordon | kerio: yes, I am sure, it is n900 |
| 17:22.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i'll think about |
| 17:22.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I mean, you'll keep the SIM and the 60EUR |
| 17:23.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | sell them, use them, do whatever you like with them |
| 17:23.50 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i'll try to find time in the incomming week to go to some store and will ask for the terms |
| 17:23.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 17:24.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks a lot |
| 17:24.09 | freemangordon | but don;t promise anything, I am pretty busy these days |
| 17:24.30 | freemangordon | during the working hours that is |
| 17:24.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | only brand new with original packaging, please |
| 17:25.08 | freemangordon | of course, i bouth my second one from them. tou it was more expensive when i bought it |
| 17:25.14 | freemangordon | *though |
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| 17:28.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | would make for nice x-mas gift packages, and that's probably also best way to package and send them from your place to Germany |
| 17:37.12 | kerio | to avoid customs, huh? crafty |
| 17:37.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: who's admin of maemo.org infra, like repositories etc, wiki, whatnot else |
| 17:37.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: err, no ;-) just because it's x-mas and they are a gift for me |
| 17:38.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever defined who may *not* pay for a gift |
| 17:38.40 | qwazix | I'm thinking, if I find some time, to make a scriptable camera app. What's the best approach if I don't want to invent my own scripting language? |
| 17:39.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | bash |
| 17:39.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | or python |
| 17:39.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and use gstreamer |
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| 17:39.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil already did such stuff iirc |
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| 17:40.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc he was first to come up with nightmode video |
| 17:40.52 | qwazix | No, I want to use fcam, to make something that allows precise control of the timings, like for example "open shutter, wait 2ms fire flash in 0,5intensity, wait 2ms fire flash again, wait 5ms, fire flash full intensity, close shutter. Repeat everything five times |
| 17:41.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, if it has to become a decent app, you probably want python |
| 17:41.52 | qwazix | hmm... |
| 17:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems extremely simple to add a python API to any arbitrary app |
| 17:42.32 | qwazix | sounds interesting, I'll check it out |
| 17:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | check that python ISDN package that existed some 6 or 8 years ago |
| 17:43.24 | qwazix | I was thinking at first to implement it by myself with something stupid, like json, but it won't allow for advanced things |
| 17:43.31 | qwazix | but this sounds really cool |
| 17:44.42 | qwazix | thanks! |
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| 17:50.34 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, Nemein was |
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| 17:50.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: :nod: |
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| 18:42.37 | Aoyagi | Hm, one of my HDDs has suddenly gotten on about a tenth of its speed...I sense devastating data loss soon. |
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| 18:49.52 | kerio | Aoyagi: what does SMART say? |
| 18:51.53 | kerio | why are we talking about nemein like it's a person? |
| 18:53.04 | Aoyagi | It's not enabled :/ |
| 18:54.43 | kerio | fun |
| 18:54.45 | kerio | buy a ssd |
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| 18:57.01 | Aoyagi | Yeah, THAT's more reliable :D |
| 18:57.14 | kerio | yes |
| 18:57.17 | kerio | they are |
| 18:59.48 | Aoyagi | Oh really. So all the tests I've seen must have been lying then. |
| 19:04.16 | kerio | i suppose so |
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| 19:35.14 | ShadowJK | has two hd's that are totally buggered without smart noticing anything |
| 19:44.18 | Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer05, You may recall I claimed about a week ago that my Mobile Hotspot worked with the default Nokia kernel. I was wrong, you were right - the power kernel is needed. |
| 19:44.54 | Sicelo | heh |
| 19:45.44 | kerio | Ken-Young: the stock kernel has no iptables |
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| 20:09.00 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
| 20:19.17 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: (for later) http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council seems a little downlevel |
| 20:20.59 | kerio | Pali: are packages that install stuff in /etc/bootmenu.d for uboot supposed to call u-boot-update-bootmenu? are they supposed to just remind the user to do that? |
| 20:22.08 | Pali | kerio, packages should run u-boot-update-bootmenu in postinst script |
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| 20:22.25 | kerio | what if the user doesn't want that, for some weird reason? |
| 20:22.53 | Pali | see kernel-power-bootimg.postinst |
| 20:23.15 | Pali | if test -x /usr/bin/u-boot-update-bootmenu; then ...; fi |
| 20:23.30 | kerio | no, i mean, what if the user doesn't want me to update the bootmenu? |
| 20:24.12 | Pali | after changing /etc/bootmenu.d you must re-run and regenerate bootmenu |
| 20:24.30 | kerio | i know that |
| 20:24.37 | Pali | so? |
| 20:24.38 | kerio | but what if the user wants to do that manually? |
| 20:24.59 | Pali | it is not for manual use :-) |
| 20:25.05 | kerio | k |
| 20:25.05 | Pali | packages should do it automatically |
| 20:25.17 | kerio | i just wanted to know if it was an official thing |
| 20:25.20 | Pali | manual use is needed only if you manual edit files in /etc/bootmenu.d |
| 20:29.42 | kerio | Pali: is it ok to depend on u-boot-tools for a -bootimg thing? |
| 20:30.23 | Pali | kerio, if your image is "only for uboot" and not working without uboot then yes |
| 20:30.33 | Pali | but if your image should work without uboot, then do not depend |
| 20:30.44 | kerio | well, i don't know if you can boot rescueOS with multiboot |
| 20:30.50 | kerio | probably not |
| 20:30.54 | Pali | kernel-power-bootimg not depending on u-boot |
| 20:31.12 | Pali | because kernel-power-bootimg can be used by other package at compile time |
| 20:31.27 | Pali | (e.g package which use zImage from kernel-power) |
| 20:31.46 | Pali | and I do not know if u-boot-tools depends on u-boot-flasher |
| 20:31.49 | kerio | i see |
| 20:31.51 | Pali | propably maybe not |
| 20:31.56 | kerio | no, u-boot-tools doesn't depend on the flasher |
| 20:32.01 | Pali | better depends on u-boot-flasher |
| 20:32.07 | kerio | D: |
| 20:32.11 | kerio | i don't have u-boot-flasher installed |
| 20:32.12 | kerio | i think |
| 20:32.28 | Pali | good point |
| 20:32.39 | Pali | you can install u-boot by flasher-3.5 |
| 20:32.43 | kerio | indeed |
| 20:32.50 | Pali | so better depends on u-boot-tools |
| 20:33.07 | kerio | this is purely academical, mind you |
| 20:33.26 | Pali | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/u-boot-tools/2012.10-rc3-1/ |
| 20:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: sorry, what's "downlevel"? Actually it's not the only wiki page that urgently needs editing, alas wiki doesn't allow editing since months now |
| 20:33.30 | kerio | i don't want to figure out the correct copyright notices for rescueos |
| 20:33.47 | Pali | kerio, u-boot-flasher depends on u-boot-tools |
| 20:34.01 | kerio | yeah but i have the tools installed and not the flasher |
| 20:34.12 | Pali | so you can create your own uboot image (e.g. with kernel-power) which will depend on u-boot-tools |
| 20:34.23 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: Oh, wiki's locked? |
| 20:34.25 | kerio | hm, that would be kinda neat |
| 20:34.32 | Pali | tools can be installed without flasher |
| 20:34.32 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: I meant referring to the "previous version" |
| 20:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: wiki is fubar |
| 20:34.38 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: Oh :-( |
| 20:34.52 | kerio | Pali: with fiasco-image-update-ask i just don't flash KP |
| 20:34.56 | Jaffa | 's been trying to catch up for this week's MWKN |
| 20:35.06 | kerio | Pali: i have kernel-power-flasher installed |
| 20:36.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: on the bright side we don't have to care about wiki spam |
| 20:36.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 20:36.12 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: :) |
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| 20:37.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: obviously Nokia or Nemein feels like "who cares what they think about us, leaving a mess for them" |
| 20:37.25 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: "database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software" when logging in, for example? |
| 20:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 20:37.44 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: Nokia I can understand, but I would've thought Nemein was interested in looking for new business |
| 20:37.55 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: Have you tried contacting bergie directly? |
| 20:38.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, I don't even know who's that |
| 20:38.59 | Jaffa | Henri Bergius. bergie on IRC (in #jollamobile atm). Boss of Nemein/main representative for Council (X-Fade works/ed for him) |
| 20:39.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 20:39.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I never heard about anything like that |
| 20:39.46 | Jaffa | Ah. |
| 20:40.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems like previous council(s) didn't bother too much with documenting stuff like that |
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| 20:40.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | or somebody missed to point us (me?) to those documents |
| 20:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly wiki fsckup isn't even a lame joke anymore, it's a plain offense |
| 20:41.39 | Jaffa | Not sure about any docs (they'd be in the wiki :-/) but presumably been lost in Chinese whispers of repeated handovers. Including the recent Councils of Doom. |
| 20:42.20 | Jaffa | Although, really, it should've been part of the Nokia handover, I guess. |
| 20:42.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's a Nokia handover? |
| 20:43.05 | Jaffa | Fair point. |
| 20:43.33 | Jaffa | Do you want me to send bergie an email to link you two up? |
| 20:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure! much appreciated |
| 20:44.39 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: /query bergie fix the wiki you asshole |
| 20:45.08 | Jaffa | Something like "The Council, and the Hildon Foundation, want to continue the maemo.org infrastructure currently hosted by Nemein. Possibly, as far as I can tell, including paying Nemein to continue it; or handover if not (at least so the problems with wiki.maemo.org can be fixed)!" |
| 20:45.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: now i know why you refused to run for council |
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| 20:45.22 | Jaffa | kerio: Easier to catch honey with bees. (Or something) |
| 20:45.38 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i did that for the good of the community |
| 20:45.57 | kerio | Jaffa: only in soviet russia |
| 20:46.05 | Jaffa | :) |
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| 21:01.45 | Jaffa | Right. Time to make a cup of tea and watch some old TV on Netflix |
| 21:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | yummy, kirin ichiban beer. Reminds me on my times at Taipei |
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| 21:09.59 | ShadowJK | I havent quite found another beer like that |
| 21:10.13 | ShadowJK | and state alcohol monopoly stopped selling kirin ichiban |
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| 21:15.45 | rlinfati | DocScrutinizer05, Pali, about gpg key expires... see: http://pastebin.com/nPEKx5nH |
| 21:16.38 | Pali | rlinfati, only "Nokia repository signing key 4v1" is used |
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| 21:18.42 | rlinfati | also 2E6D6F9A |
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| 21:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is maemo security <security@maemo.org> ? |
| 22:00.11 | kerio | an oxymoron |
| 22:06.15 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: http://maemo.org/community/security/ |
| 22:08.48 | vi_ | Pali: Why did you post a link to the old powertop? what is wrong with the version in the repo? |
| 22:09.11 | Pali | vi_, I found original official DEB package |
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| 22:09.49 | vi_ | Pali: did you ever get the source for meego powertop? |
| 22:10.02 | Pali | no :-( |
| 22:13.29 | fil | puzzled -- I can find references to people wanting to rebuild newer rtmpdump from 2010 onwards, and yet the version available from the repos is still the 1.9-1 version from Jan 2010 |
| 22:14.21 | fil | is it setting the SDK up that's impossible, or building the package, or uploading it, or getting it through some sort of QA? Or has anyone that's able moved on to pastures new already? |
| 22:25.46 | kerio | fil: building a binary is easy |
| 22:26.06 | kerio | maintaining a package in a repo is kinda boring |
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| 22:26.45 | kerio | fil: also, i'd like to watch twitch.tv streams on my n900, just for the novelty |
| 22:26.48 | kerio | so please do |
| 22:35.29 | fil | kerio: well, as a Debian Developer, I'm aware of what's needed to maintain a package, but the fact that nobody seems to have tried in this case makes me wonder how much extra friction there is when comparing maemo with debian |
| 22:37.24 | ShadowJK | extras-devel has no QA |
| 22:37.33 | ShadowJK | would guess the original maintainer left |
| 22:37.40 | fil | anyway, my wife tells me it's bed-time, so I'll say nn, and read the backlog tomorrow for people trying to inspire me to put the effort in ;-) |
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