IRC log for #maemo on 20121206

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00:01.46DocScrutinizer05mount ~usr/MyDocs
00:02.02DocScrutinizer05mount ~user/MyDocs
00:02.04DocScrutinizer05even
00:04.06AoyagiThis must be the only channel where people mostly talk on topic...
00:07.45XATRIXOk...thanks
00:07.57XATRIXThank's for advices guys,see you tomorrow!
00:08.04XATRIXGotta go
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00:09.32DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: it's getting worse since a year or so. The downside: more and more users don't closely follow what's happening in here, since they are not interested in off-topic chat
00:10.26DocScrutinizer05we sometimes even call this the tmo-ification of IRC
00:10.55DocScrutinizer05idly mentions that he's not following tmo at all, since years
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00:26.55Aoyagi<PROTECTED>
00:27.25AoyagiTenant management organisation!
00:27.58Skrythat's what we do here
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00:59.41DocScrutinizer05~tm0
00:59.41infobotfrom memory, tm0 is trolls, mooses and orangutans
00:59.49DocScrutinizer05~tmo
00:59.49infobotrumour has it, tmo is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.
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01:04.52Skry~T-MO
01:04.52infobott-mo is probably T-Mobile
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02:40.59ManoftheSeaMy N900 USB has broken.  I am sad.
02:41.12ManoftheSeaLet us mourn the passing of another N900.
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02:56.38DocScrutinizer05ManoftheSea: dang! what happened?
02:57.45DocScrutinizer05~tell ManoftheSea about usbfix
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03:09.26ManoftheSeahey DocScrutinizer05.  I guess I dropped it directly on the USB plug while charging.  Seems I ripped the D+ and D- pads off.
03:09.38ManoftheSeaIt's beyond my ability to re-solder.
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03:10.26ManoftheSeaI didn't notice until the end of the day.
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03:13.57ManoftheSeaI have seen that thread.  Just... after breaking it.
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03:46.45DocScrutinizer05ManoftheSea: well, you might give it a try and ask Nokia Care if they could fix it, just tell them you got it 3 years ago and there's NO MORE warranty - otherwise they will keep it and give you some crappy windows phone or sth
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03:51.22DocScrutinizer05recently users reorted they got their USB receptacle fixed by Nokia Care. There even been a report about main board swap been done by Nokia - this one on warranty though
03:52.07ManoftheSeaOh really?  neat. I'm surprised they'd do anything if it's not under warrenty though.
03:52.26DocScrutinizer05allegedly Nokia got some new spare mainboards manufactured
03:52.53DocScrutinizer05well, if they can fix it and charge you for it, why not?
03:53.16DocScrutinizer05I think the user claimed it cost hin 40 GBP or sth
03:53.23DocScrutinizer05him*
03:54.06DocScrutinizer05which sounds like a good deal for >60min of repair work
03:54.12ManoftheSeaoh yeah, that seems great then.
03:55.22ManoftheSeaI'll look into it, thanks Doc.
03:56.46DocScrutinizer05yw
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03:58.05ManoftheSeaAlso, did I see you're on the Board again?
03:58.54DocScrutinizer05hmm?
03:59.29DocScrutinizer05ManoftheSea: if Nokia says they can't fix, you still might find a hacker that does hardcore fix like in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27
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04:02.00ManoftheSeaeBay's got used models ~ $150.  Might be cheaper than the repair.
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04:04.16DocScrutinizer05dang
04:04.21DocScrutinizer05ManoftheSea: if Nokia says they can't fix, you still might find a hacker that does hardcore fix like in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27
04:04.23DocScrutinizer05alas there: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=693493&postcount=12 the photos (external links) are gone
04:04.26DocScrutinizer05shame on you, tmo
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04:10.58DocScrutinizer05ManoftheSea: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1062790#post1062790
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04:11.22ManoftheSeadoc, yeah, I've seen these threads.
04:12.02ManoftheSeaIf Nokia can't do it for cheap enough, I'll have to get a USB cable and solder to the pins under teh battery.
04:12.14ManoftheSeaI was intending to turn my phone into a home server at end of life anyway.
04:12.17DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1070122#post1070122
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08:10.36vi_DocScrutinizer05:
08:10.40vi_DocScrutinizer05: ping
08:11.55vi_DocScrutinizer05: a link has been mentioned to stuff on your server on TMO.
08:11.57vi_http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1300085&postcount=25
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08:48.03DocScrutinizer05hmm, so what?
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09:03.09DocScrutinizer05the stuff on this server is meant for community, so it's normal somebody refers to it. Just *some* few files are in 'hidden' locations so they won't show up in search engines
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09:04.09XATRIXHi guys, How can i make my handset to automatically disable WLAN interface if it has no connection for 5 min (for powersaving in case i forget to disable it)
09:04.10DocScrutinizer05please don't post complete URLs to those files, neither to hidden path components above them (like "docs")
09:04.46DocScrutinizer05errr
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09:05.16DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: simply disable the "connect to WLAN if available"
09:05.18XATRIXFound a wiki Autodisconnect
09:05.34DocScrutinizer05don't use auto-disconnect! it's a real botch
09:05.37XATRIXDocScrutinizer05, Nope...it's not a solution... I need it to shut down the interface
09:05.49DocScrutinizer05gives WAY more trouble than benefit
09:06.19XATRIXDon't think it does... Cause it supposed to disable the iface. Only in this case you will have more powersave
09:06.30DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: I don't understand what you're trying to do then
09:06.36XATRIXIf it doesn't automatically connect, it doesn't mean it won't scan your area
09:06.51DocScrutinizer05nonsense
09:06.59XATRIXIt's fully operational , but just don't connect to
09:07.06DocScrutinizer05that's *exactly* what this means
09:07.18XATRIXSo, i need something to manually disable wlan
09:07.32DocScrutinizer05if you say so *shrug*
09:07.33XATRIXOops...i mean to disable wlan if it doesn't use network
09:07.57XATRIXSuch as , if there's no active wlan connection -> unload kernel modules
09:08.01XATRIXfor 5 min
09:08.10DocScrutinizer05shakes head
09:08.16XATRIXIf it's idle
09:08.31XATRIXAlso it shout monitor Btooh
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09:08.40DocScrutinizer05now that's what you learnt during the 5 years you're using N900?
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09:09.17XATRIXHm...i'm using N900 for 2days
09:09.27XATRIXhttp://wiki.maemo.org/AutoDisconnect - that's what i found out
09:09.40DocScrutinizer05so why do you think you need to teach me about powersaving?
09:09.53XATRIXBut it doesn't mean i'm not used to linux in general
09:10.06tadzikwe have this saying in Poland, "don't teach your father how to make babies" ;)
09:10.09DocScrutinizer05when I tell you WLAN *is* shut down when not in use...
09:10.13XATRIXI'm not teaching you... I'm telling you how do i see the subj...
09:10.45XATRIXtadzik, in Soviet Russia babies made fathers ;)
09:10.46DocScrutinizer05you don't need to disable anything, ICD does that for you
09:11.07XATRIXWe say, that egges teaches the turkey :)
09:11.21XATRIXICD ?
09:11.34DocScrutinizer05Internet Connection Daemon 2
09:11.38XATRIXOh
09:11.52XATRIXWhat do you say, if i check your point in powertop ?:)
09:12.31DocScrutinizer05I say powetop doesn't give a means to check wlan
09:12.34XATRIXworkring kernel module - is a driver , drivers cause interrupts, system ticks, and processor attention... No driver - no power drain
09:12.55DocScrutinizer05suuuuure
09:13.15DocScrutinizer05and iwconfig, rfkill and whatnot else are for my ass
09:13.16XATRIXYea, usually i tune up my laptop in such a way...
09:13.34XATRIXAlso, rfkill could help. But i like a way to unload driver
09:13.36tadzikyou may as well assume that every inactive process is actually doing busy-waiting
09:13.55XATRIXYes, it's correct
09:14.07tadzik...noitsnot
09:14.13DocScrutinizer05yeah, maybe sigstop each inactive process, just to be sure
09:14.36DocScrutinizer05;-P
09:14.37tadzikwhy do you think htop says "260 threads, 1 running?"
09:14.47tadzikbecause 259 are _not_ running
09:15.11XATRIXThey are, but the system sheduler isn't currently working with them
09:15.13tadzikever peeked at the system's CPU scheduler?
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09:15.23DocScrutinizer05actually your thinking been correct.... for PR1.0 WLAN drivers
09:15.24XATRIXIt's not applied for the kernel and kernel modules aswell
09:15.27tadzikthat's the point of not running
09:15.33DocScrutinizer05and PR1.0 ICD2
09:15.49XATRIXtadzik, it's running ! But is in idle state...
09:15.57XATRIXIf there's a process, it's running!
09:16.02DocScrutinizer05since then it's not needed anymore to unload WLAN modules "manually"
09:16.07tadzikokay, we have to agree that we don't agree
09:16.21tadzikI may have a different definition of "running"
09:16.24XATRIXThat's only my point
09:16.36XATRIXDocScrutinizer05, Ok..in this case, maybe things changed
09:17.43XATRIXAs for example, if i do unload my Ralink wireless modules on my laptop, it will stay alive on 24m more
09:17.50XATRIXSo, it does sense
09:18.08DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: actually look at internet settings - you'll find not only "connect to WLAN when available" but also a period time for WLAN scans. All invented to keep WLAN inactive and shut down most of the time
09:18.10XATRIXIf i use ipw2200 WLAN intface. It makes no differece
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09:19.09XATRIXDocScrutinizer05, Sorry, what do you mean ? If it keep scanning all the time, it wil drain power
09:19.16DocScrutinizer05yes
09:19.28XATRIXSo, the point of mine was to manually enable WLAN when i actually need it
09:20.04DocScrutinizer05and that period (5min, 10min, 30min) is the time WLAN is powered down, since it eats power like candy *especially* during scans
09:20.32DocScrutinizer05so PR1.1 (iirc) invented that auto-shutdown of WLAN
09:20.42XATRIXYes, you right as a part... It means it works like in a passive mode during scans
09:21.08XATRIXIt measn that it drains power much more less, in a scanning mode, because it doesn't use TX
09:21.33DocScrutinizer05it works like in PSM=0 at very least, during scans. Means it doesn't sleep ever
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09:21.53XATRIXHm
09:22.39DocScrutinizer05while when connected to an AP it has a partner to do PSM and go to sleep until next relevant beacon is scheduled by AP
09:23.15DocScrutinizer05that's done because RX eats lots of power on WLAN
09:23.43DocScrutinizer05and during scan RX duty cycle is 100%
09:24.23DocScrutinizer05so since PR1.1 ICD2 does all that module-unloading resp something similar for you
09:24.25XATRIXMaybe you have a point ...
09:24.42XATRIXHow can i check my current PR version ?
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09:25.37DocScrutinizer05and auto-disconnect is messing up your complete internet connectivity setup to a point where it eventually breaks completely and nobody so far found out how to fix the mess except with a full reflash
09:25.43XATRIXAlso what about 3G/2G network modes?
09:26.19DocScrutinizer05current PR version is to be found in settings->"about product"
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09:26.56DocScrutinizer0521.2011.38... is PR1.3.1
09:27.14DocScrutinizer0520.2010.36 is PR1.3
09:27.25XATRIXversion: 21.2011.38-1
09:28.25XATRIXIs it ok ?
09:28.28DocScrutinizer052.2009.51-1 is PR1.1
09:28.42DocScrutinizer05yes, that's most recent version
09:28.51DocScrutinizer05PR1.3.1
09:29.00XATRIXSo it has everything that i need
09:29.03XATRIXI hope
09:29.06DocScrutinizer05yes
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09:30.12DocScrutinizer05for 2G/3G switching I use the 2G/3G switcher applet
09:30.31XATRIXI have it also. But want to automate it a bit
09:30.50DocScrutinizer05switching manually to 3G when I use browser and find I need to download huge amounts of data
09:31.47DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: automating it isn't really easy, since modem takes ~10s to switch from one mode to the other. during that time there's no connectivity at all
09:32.24XATRIXYes
09:32.56DocScrutinizer05you could do *some* automation by switching to 3G as soon as you start the browser, for example. Some simple dbus msg sent in a browserd/microB wrapper should do
09:34.12DocScrutinizer05or maybe a gconftool invocation, dunno
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09:37.06XATRIXYea, will think about it
09:37.09XATRIXThanks anyway!
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09:42.17jonwilwishes he could think of something useful to do for the n900
09:42.27jonwilhas run out of things worth reverse engineering
09:42.32tadzikthere's also dual-band, but it's greedy, as in it prefers 3G to 2G. It would be nice if it could be non-greedy
09:43.02jonwilAlthough I will say this: If I had the ARM version of HexRays (or a similar ARM decompiler) I could make BIG progress in reverse engineering a number of interesting things :P
09:44.21DocScrutinizer05tadzik: indeed I never use 3G setting, only 2G and dual
09:44.40DocScrutinizer053G is pointless
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09:45.26DocScrutinizer05it would be useful if dual would prefer 2G
09:45.27jonwilBut unfortunatly I dont have a spare 3k to spend on ARM HexRays :(
09:46.02DocScrutinizer05jonwil: maybe find some warez? ;-)
09:46.51jonwiltrust me, if it was available in the places I get crap like that (e.g. where I got my x86 HexRays from) I would have found it by now :)
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09:48.12DocScrutinizer05I also would appreciate a Lauterbach ICE and tracebuffer
09:49.14DocScrutinizer05but that stuff is even 5 times more expensive
09:51.52DocScrutinizer05jonwil: if you don't find good new stuff to RE, maybe you want to learn how to exploit ARM's ETM/ETB then ;-)
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09:52.47DocScrutinizer05I think you can create a program that reads out the embedded trace buffer internally (not via JTAG)
09:53.31DocScrutinizer05would be MAD useful, for all sorts of real debugging, and even for RE purposes, once it works
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09:56.29jonwilunfortunately digging that deep into the inner workings of the ARM CPU is not something I would find interesting :P
09:56.57DocScrutinizer05check ... :-/
09:57.23DocScrutinizer05how could you say http://search.arm.com/search?site=Site-Search&entqr=0&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&client=ARM_Site_Refresh&ud=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&getfields=Description&proxystylesheet=ARM_Site_Refresh&q=embedded+trace+macrocell is not interesting?
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10:03.41DocScrutinizer05bwaahaaahaaaa NOKIA again! what else? http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/arch/arm/include/asm/hardware/coresight.h?a=microblaze
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10:06.44DocScrutinizer05http://www.arm.com/files/pdf/Better_Trace_for_Better_Software_-_CoreSight_STM_with_LTTng_-_19th_October_2010.pdf
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10:12.11DocScrutinizer05http://lttng.org/
10:12.24DocScrutinizer05^^^ tracing in linux
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10:16.04DocScrutinizer05though, it seems it doesn't support ETM :-S
10:17.12DocScrutinizer05however: >>New whitepaper to learn how CoreSight STM can be used by software developers with open source trace framework as Linux Trace Toolkit (LTTng)<< ( http://www.arm.com/products/system-ip/debug-trace/index.php )
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10:27.02DocScrutinizer05hah, >>ARM, Nokia, Texas Instruments and Lauterbach discussed at IP-ESC 09 how scalable on-chip system visibility can be delivered cost effectively.<<
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10:29.00Aoyagion-chip system visibility_
10:29.02Aoyagi?
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10:34.13freemangordonjonwil: yeah, it is a pity we still don;t have access to ARM HexRays
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10:37.57jonwilIf I had ARM HexRays, I recon I could figure out the 2D parts of PowerVR drivers no problems...
10:38.27jonwilat least based on my analysis at this point
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10:49.49DocScrutinizer05>>Case Study – GStreamer - FFmpeg execution under Android - Target: Mistral EVM OMAP35xx  Based on Cortex-A8 processor<< http://www.arm.com/files/pdf/CoreSight-On-Chip-Visibility-Webinar-March-2010.pdf pp.32
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10:58.42vi_DocScrutinizer05, ping
10:58.48vi_freemangordon, ping
10:59.01vi_<PROTECTED>
10:59.01vi_<vi_> With the n900 set to 250-600MHz, playing a 27minute .mp4 movie file using mplayer and the screen off and locked.#
10:59.01vi_<vi_> The N900 uses 5% LESS power with smart reflex enabled.
10:59.01vi_<vi_> Interestingly, with the 'DSP' profile (250-805MHz, SR on) the n900 used 12% more power than 250-600.
10:59.39Aoyagi"Well from what i have researched on Maemo, it is more of a full on linux kernel than Android." is there some sort of a longer explanation of that somewhere?
10:59.57vi_and 7% more power than 250-600 without SR.
11:00.09vi_So that seems pretty conclusive to me.
11:00.13vi_SR DOES save power.
11:00.21vi_Aoyagi, yes.
11:00.25vi_maemo==linux
11:00.32vi_android != linux
11:00.44AoyagiThat's only rephrasing of that quote :P
11:00.49tadzikthat... doesn't sound correct
11:01.10vi_The qoute is nonsense.
11:01.34vi_Maemo IS linux.
11:02.07vi_Android uses a broken linux kernel and that is where the similarity ends.
11:02.14vi_Maemo users are full on nerds.  Android users like to think they are.
11:02.15DocScrutinizer05yep
11:02.24Aoyagihah
11:02.39vi_DocScrutinizer05, good morning!
11:02.43vi_did you read the above?
11:02.49DocScrutinizer05sure
11:03.04vi_are you a believer?
11:06.36DocScrutinizer05no. But I think those results are conclusive
11:06.38vi_P=CfV^2
11:06.42AoyagiFrom what I've read so far, " Android is a more mass marketed smart phone with bits of linux running it." I guess I need to learn what "only kernel" means :D
11:06.42vi_Remarkably the only mention of the above formula WRT to processors on wikipedia is on the P4 speedstep page.
11:06.43vi_Aoyagi, The kernel is the 'layer' between the hardware and the UI.
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11:06.44vi_((((hardware)kernel)UI)you)
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11:07.19vi_DocScrutinizer05, We all knew SR would save power.  The interesting proof is that the optimum freqs for battery life are 250-600MHz.
11:07.20AoyagiSo based on that, Maemo uses also Linux UI (along with a kernel that's not (somehow) broken) :S
11:07.29DocScrutinizer05no surprise
11:08.30vi_Linux is a universal operating system, the same linux that runs on your PC is the same linux that runs on your n900.
11:08.46DocScrutinizer05android isn't
11:08.52vi_Simply compiled for a different architecture.
11:09.35vi_Android is a derivative operating system that is not so...flexable.
11:09.54vi_It breaks some of the ideas that underpin linux, so we call it broken.
11:10.16AoyagiMakes sense.
11:10.26AoyagiStill tho, I thought flexibility was its sellpoint.
11:10.43vi_Basically you can call it a completely different operating system.
11:10.54AoyagiAlong with tons of social "apps" bloatware and market place full of junk.
11:11.01vi_Remember they are selling it to pseudo nerds.
11:13.20AoyagiOh and MeeGo?
11:13.37AoyagiI haven't heard that much about it...
11:13.43vi_The notion of flexibility is created by the hundreds of 'work-around' apps that people like to install to 'fix' different aspects of their superior OS.
11:13.58vi_Aoyagi, Meego is dead.  Forget about it.
11:14.03AoyagiYeah, that's what I figured :D
11:14.08AoyagiAbout the workarounds.
11:14.36AoyagiSo I take it it was inferior to Maemo at some point.
11:14.40vi_Where as under maemo you do have true flexibility.
11:14.52vi_That is why it is so easy to break your n900.
11:15.06vi_What was inferior to maemo?
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11:15.15AoyagiMeego
11:15.23DocScrutinizer05the partnership was a hell obviously, and eventually resulted in a nasty divorce
11:15.28vi_meego was not inferior.  Just alternative.
11:15.32AoyagiAh.
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11:16.22vi_I have NFC what Nokia were smoking when they decided a maemo/moblin merger was a good idea.
11:16.46AoyagiOh yes, this "easy to break" part reminded me - is it difficult (/possible) to get a fresh clean system on N900? I imagine it shouldn't be that hard.
11:16.51DocScrutinizer05meEgo
11:17.20DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: huh?
11:17.23DocScrutinizer05~flash
11:17.24infobotsomebody said maemo-flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
11:19.23vi_Aoyagi, if you have a linux computer flashing is piss easy.
11:19.23AoyagiSounds easy enough.
11:19.26vi_1 command
11:19.37AoyagiAnd no I don't have one.
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11:19.59vi_you can even perhaps use the opensource flasher, 0xFFFF to flash 1 n900 from another.
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11:31.58jonwilis bored :(
11:35.41DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: you don't have one what?
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11:36.13AoyagiDocScrutinizer05: Linux computer.
11:36.26DocScrutinizer05hmm, do you have a PC?
11:37.04AoyagiPC and a laptop. PC is ridden by countless worms and laptop is work machine...
11:38.25DocScrutinizer05then I'd suggest to download and burn a linux live CD, and download the flasher tool for linux and the fiasco-image.bin to C: and access it from Linux booted from CD there
11:39.02AoyagiI plan to make one of these machines dualboot at some point... or maybe get a new laptop, dunno.
11:39.42DocScrutinizer05well, booting from CD is poor man's dualboot
11:40.04AoyagixD
11:40.41AoyagiYeah, I might as well get some USB stick and throw some distro on it.
11:40.54DocScrutinizer05should work as well
11:41.13DocScrutinizer05nice detail is you only need console to run flasher
11:41.28DocScrutinizer05so no fancy X11 and KDE/gnome needed
11:42.04AoyagiYeah, I like fancy... :S
11:42.09DocScrutinizer05get DamnSmallLinux
11:42.39DocScrutinizer05or, if you like fancy, get Knoppix
11:43.09AoyagiAnyway, I was asking about flashing because I'll prolly get a used N900, at least for now. And I don't want to have some previous user's horrors swimming it it.
11:45.21DocScrutinizer05g'nite
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11:46.15AoyagiAnd yeah, I heard about Knoppix somewhere.
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12:27.58joga..knoppix, fancy? has it even been updated in the recent 7 years or something
12:28.39dimirDoes it need to? :-P
12:28.57dimirIt works, it always has been, so why bother? :-P
12:29.02jogaoh, apparently it has, I thought it had been essentially abandoned already
12:29.19dimirAh.
12:29.40dimirHaven't used it for about those 7 years, frankly. :-D
12:29.45jogadunno why I thought that, maybe because the website lacks any dates
12:30.14dimirBut back in the days, when I was using it a lot, it has always been working for me.
12:30.46jogayeah no problems there, though I never liked the default kde desktop
12:31.30jogasomeone ought to make some debian derivative that by default boots you into a root shell and no X or such unless you specifically say so
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12:32.17jogafor those times when all you want is to run lspci or something on a system :)
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12:45.38dimiryea
12:46.21dimirOr edit your disk partition table and fix it.
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13:02.15AoyagiIs thomasvs always like that?
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13:48.06freemangordonvi_: pong
13:48.56vi_freemangordon, Hello.  Read the backscroll.
13:49.10vi_<PROTECTED>
13:49.11vi_<vi_> <vi_> The N900 uses 5% LESS power with smart reflex enabled.
13:49.11vi_<vi_> <vi_> Interestingly, with the 'DSP' profile (250-805MHz, SR on) the n900 used 12% more power than 250-600.
13:49.21vi_<PROTECTED>
13:49.22vi_<vi_> So that seems pretty conclusive to me.
13:49.22vi_<vi_> SR DOES save power.
13:49.57vi_freemangordon, Please by all means, feel vindicated.
13:50.08freemangordonvi_: aah, yeah. Though OC to 805 using more power even with SR enabled is not unexpected
13:50.16vi_freemangordon, OFC.
13:50.26freemangordonvi_: also have in mind that SR is device dependent ;)
13:50.31vi_However there is now a quantifiable value.
13:50.35vi_true.
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13:50.49freemangordonvi_: is that -thumb?
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13:50.56vi_freemangordon, Yes.
13:51.04freemangordondo you have non-thumb device?
13:51.06vi_I cannot comment on stock maemo.
13:51.11vi_...no.
13:51.19vi_I useually go strait to thumb.
13:51.29freemangordonas IMO -thumb changes the picture a lot
13:51.58vi_well, this was using old mplayer.
13:52.03freemangordonI'd expect larger savings on stock system
13:52.25vi_freemangordon, One day, I will get to check it.
13:52.57freemangordonvi_: my thought is that rest of the system is faster when on thumb, which reduces SR effect compared to stock
13:53.15freemangordonCPU goes to idle faster on -thumb than on stock
13:53.23vi_perhaps.
13:53.30freemangordonmught b wrong of course, this is just how i feel it
13:53.39vi_I so not have any data to dis/agree.
13:53.48vi_I do not have any data to dis/agree.
13:53.50ShadowJKwonders what is the optimal frequency from a "race to idle" point of view
13:54.03freemangordonShadowJK: 600?
13:54.09vi_ShadowJK, I reckon it is 600MHz all along!
13:54.22ShadowJKIntel has always claimed that the fastest possible frequency will always win for power use on their cpus
13:54.31SpeedEvilit depends.
13:54.42ShadowJKand they seemed surprised it'd be different for arm
13:54.46vi_But power use increase exponentially.
13:54.53SpeedEvilif there is a requirement to service lots of interrupts, it may not be true
13:55.55vi_there is an android governer that behaves like ondemand upto a freq (600MHz) then like conservative thereafter.
13:56.03vi_That would be ideal.
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13:57.40vi_freemangordon, You said there was a maemo build script for mplayer?
13:58.23ShadowJKworked on getting MPlayer built with neon on n900 in 2009?
13:58.34ShadowJKBut it's most likely not working anymore :)
13:58.50vi_ShadowJK, FMG did it!
14:00.19ShadowJKhm?
14:01.19vi_ShadowJK, FMG built the latest mplayer with neon support.
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14:01.44ShadowJKah
14:01.57vi_Except it has some issues with window focus and the keyboard.
14:02.20vi_I was wondering if the maemo build script might reveal some magic.
14:03.14ShadowJKiirc the one in extras has some patches for focus and sound
14:03.25vi_ShadowJK, That will be it then.
14:03.57vi_What would be sweet is a statically compiled hardfp version.
14:04.26ShadowJKthumb would be interesting
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14:04.36vi_the one FMG built IS thumb.
14:04.51vi_Thumb, gcc 4.7.2 (linaro), neon.
14:04.52ShadowJKthere shouldn't be too much floating point use in mplayer normally
14:05.04ShadowJKunless audio filter chain runs amok
14:05.07vi_ShadowJK, Really?  Video decoding.
14:05.28ShadowJKyes, really.
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14:05.35vi_Ok.
14:06.15ShadowJKIt'd be more common in audio, but afaik the major audio codecs in libav are integer
14:06.25freemangordonShadowJK: the one i built is upstream october version
14:06.34freemangordon2.1 or something
14:06.50vi_freemangordon, What packages did you have to import to build it?
14:06.56freemangordonnothing
14:07.05vi_Just the mplayer source?
14:07.05freemangordonI mean a simple configure/make
14:07.09freemangordonyep
14:07.10vi_aaah.
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14:07.35freemangordonwell, I ahve a lot of -dev packages instaled, after all this is the same SB I use for CSSU-thumb
14:07.35vi_So adding the maemo magic focus patches *should* be trivial.
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14:07.42ShadowJKVersion numbers are pretty meaningless, or were meaningless, I remember they didnt put out a new release for 5 years and had a "SVN is always stable" policy instead
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14:07.54freemangordonvi_: might be
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14:08.02vi_ShadowJK, just like extras-devel!
14:08.24vi_freemangordon, mmm.  I will look into it. (as best as I can).
14:08.33freemangordonvi_: the problem is there are no separate debian/patches IIRC
14:08.51ShadowJKfinds maemo-screenblankprevention.patch
14:09.14vi_ShadowJK, where?
14:09.20ShadowJKon my harddrive
14:09.25vi_oh!
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14:09.36vi_Did you build the original mplayer?
14:10.03vi_care to send me this patch?
14:11.10ShadowJKhttp://enivax.net/jk/mplayer-n900/02/
14:11.28ShadowJKiirc I only did some build system hacking?
14:12.00ShadowJKRevision 30080 :)
14:12.06ShadowJKi wonder if that's the one in extras
14:12.50vi_30099
14:13.01vi_^svn version in devel.
14:13.17vi_at least 19 better.
14:13.54ShadowJK15 of those are fixing indentation
14:14.16ShadowJK(because MPlayer policy doesn't allow mixing "cosmetic" changes with code changes)
14:16.30ShadowJKI also found this http://enivax.net/jk/mplayer-focus-fix.patch.txt
14:16.37ShadowJKBut I don't know what it does
14:16.41ShadowJKand looks kinda old
14:16.43freemangordonBTW I had to do a one line patch to be able to build it for thumb. I found the patch on the mailinglidt, it was no upstreamed by that time
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14:17.29freemangordonShadowJK: but seems related to what vi_ reports
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14:18.03ShadowJKanyway, if you can extract the source used for extras mplayer
14:18.10ShadowJKI'm clueless about debian stuff
14:18.31ShadowJKand diff it with a checkout of rev 30099 from MPlayer's svn...
14:18.32freemangordonShadowJK: debian stuff is easy
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14:19.05freemangordonI mean there is nothing special in mplayer debian/
14:19.41ShadowJKI mean the process of obtainining sourcecode from extras
14:20.07freemangordonaah. apt-get source mplayer ;)
14:20.30ShadowJKwould that make my n900 blow up? :)
14:20.37ShadowJKdoesn't have svn there anyway
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14:38.04XATRIXShadowJK, apt-get has a cow power!
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14:50.53fastaIs there any company which doesn't hire technical support that cannot do technical support?
14:51.48fastaOr is there a website which lists per company how to talk to people rather than drones?
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14:53.25fastaI wonder what management was thinking when they put those people there. I can imagine it goes something like "we will just put people there who can take a call, not who can answer a call, since other companies do it just as badly".
14:53.46*** join/#maemo rooster_rus (~user@95-27-129-40.broadband.corbina.ru)
14:55.36AoyagiWell, the former support of Electronic Arts was pretty good.
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14:56.13AoyagiI can't think of any other large company that would provide sensible support.
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14:58.48rooster_rusGreetings, guys. I'm trying to rebind BackSpace to Control_R by editing rx-51. No success at all.
15:00.28rooster_rusIs it possible? Or may be control can't be rebind on n900 keyboard
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15:03.13rooster_rusAlso similar problem with Up, Down keys. I tried to make shift+Up acting like PgUp, but instead it gave me something like ;5C
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15:44.04keriorooster_rus: one thing is what the keyboard sends, another is how osso-xterm parses it
15:44.15keriotry it on the notes program
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17:03.04internetishardI've this new straighttalk APN proxy... There is no "apn proxy" setting that I can find. Just ones specific for http and https...
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17:04.55kerioDocScrutinizer05: i need someone to discourage me from uninstalling HAM
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17:52.29vi_kerio, uninstall that shit.
17:52.33vi_And report back.
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17:56.55keriovi_: k
17:57.16keriovi_: nope.jpg
17:57.31keriovi_: removing hildon-application-manager brings down everything
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18:11.23kerioPali: why the fuck does kernel-power-flasher depend on hildon-application-manager?
18:11.43Palikerio, becuase of that dialog which show warning information
18:12.09Palikerio, maemo-confirm-text (or similar name)
18:12.11keriothat's about as sensible as having the battery applet icon depend on mediaplayer-l10n
18:13.01kerioPali: same thing for community-ssu-enabler?
18:13.01Palithat is stupid nokia idea to include general "time" strings into mediaplayer-l10n
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18:13.38Palikerio, cssu enabler installing certificate into HAM and using for that HAM tool
18:13.44keriooic
18:14.01kerio...what the fucking fuck, openttd-data depends on hildon-application-manager
18:16.30keriovi_: HAM can't be reasonably uninstalled
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18:31.32vi_meh
18:31.41vi_It costs nothing to leave it there.
18:32.01vi_Next, see about nuking avahi-daemon.
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18:32.42vi_thomasvs, FIX YOUR GOD DAMNED IRC CLIENT FFS.
18:32.52kerioavahi is necessary
18:32.59keriofor dns
18:33.00vi_for what?
18:33.00kerioand stuff
18:33.03vi_wut?
18:33.09vi_are you sure?
18:33.15keriothat's what avahi does
18:33.18vi_It is like media discovery or some shit.
18:33.22keriono it's not
18:33.39kerioit's zeroconf
18:33.48ShadowJKisn't avahi for apple's mdns type stuff?
18:33.52kerioyes
18:34.12keriowell, it can be used by programs to advertise services on a LAN
18:34.15vi_reading the man page.
18:34.24vi_It still looks gay.  Delete it.
18:34.55ShadowJKis it the thing that makes random PCs on the lan appear in media player?
18:35.01vi_Yes.
18:35.04kerio:o
18:35.07kerioon the n900's media player?
18:35.08ShadowJKhate it
18:35.10ShadowJKya
18:35.17keriofo srs?
18:35.21keriogoes to try
18:35.27vi_It also allows you to discovery printers.
18:35.48vi_ShadowJK, Isee other media devices all the time in media player.  They never work.
18:36.36vi_To be fair, it is scripted by if-up and if-down to only be running when you are connected to a network.
18:36.38keriowhere would that list be?
18:37.08vi_kerio, It just appears at the bottom of the main screen.
18:37.33vi_The main screen lets you choose; music, video, radio, random music.
18:37.35kerioyes
18:38.30keriomaybe i disabled it somehow?
18:38.34kerioor maybe OMP doesn't do that
18:38.46keriobecause i enabled itunes sharing, which should be *the* thing
18:38.51kerioand i don't see anything
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19:38.25XATRIXHi guys, any good contacts manager you can advice me on ?
19:38.57XATRIXI can't switch to display only skype or only phone contacts... It's all messed up
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19:39.32keriocontacts are contacts, in maemo
19:39.42keriomerge your skype contacts with the people they actually represent
19:41.03Siceloif you want to see contacts only by their 'protocol' (so to speak) , in the main contact list, tap the title bar, and choose Groups
19:41.05keriobesides, there's like the group view, iirc you can filter
19:41.09keriowhat Sicelo said
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19:41.37Sicelobut yeah, i'm not sure it's messed up at all
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19:41.39Sicelo:)
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19:50.57XATRIXIn groups i have only "Sim card contacts" And Skype
19:51.10XATRIXHow can i differ the contacts in my headset ?
19:51.22Sicelohuh? headset?
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19:51.50XATRIXmobile device
19:51.59Sicelooh
19:52.05XATRIX*handset :)
19:52.06XATRIXsorry
19:52.27Sicelosim card contacts are sim card contacts, heh, and skype contacts are just that
19:52.31Sicelo:-\
19:53.05XATRIX:)
19:53.17XATRIXmaybe i have to look for another app ?
19:53.26Sicelohmm
19:53.27XATRIXNot a standard one contacts ?
19:53.32Siceloup to you
19:53.47Sicelobut i still don't understand what you find lacking in the stock one
19:54.45XATRIXI have tons of contacts, and i have many same entries
19:55.12XATRIXAlso, i can't sort , first should me mobile phone contacts, after should be other
19:56.02Sicelook.
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20:05.10markinfohallo. can be somehow saved SMS message history?
20:05.36AoyagiI thought most phones do that by default.
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20:06.50markinfothere is only option "delete conversation"
20:07.20AoyagiOh you mean save it somewhere...else.
20:07.38tadzikbackup the database :)
20:09.15markinfothat one? http://maemo.org/packages/view/glogarchive/
20:10.44teotwakimarkinfo: basically, just have a look at the database with sqlite
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20:11.03teotwakimarkinfo: you can simply scp it, then have a look at it on your desktop
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20:11.31teotwakimarkinfo: it contains all call info, texts, etc
20:12.26markinfoteotwaki, where is this database?
20:12.39kerioXATRIX: "mobile phone" contacts?
20:12.49XATRIXyea
20:12.49kerioalso wtf, sorting?
20:12.51keriojust search
20:13.04keriono, it's not a yes/no question
20:13.09keriowtf is a "mobile phone" contact
20:13.14teotwakimarkinfo: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db
20:13.21teotwakierr
20:13.25teotwakimarkinfo: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db
20:13.26teotwaki?
20:13.27XATRIXI want to be able to show only mobile phone contacts, only skype contacts, alltogether contacts
20:13.28teotwakiI don't remember
20:13.34teotwakianyway, something along those lines
20:13.40kerioXATRIX: there's no such thing as a "mobile phone" contact
20:13.56XATRIX=(
20:14.25kerioa contact is a bunch of landline numbers, cellphone numbers, addresses, URLs, a picture, IM usernames, skype names, SIP numbers
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20:14.48kerioideally it matches a single person
20:14.57XATRIXI'd seriously like to search
20:15.05markinfoteotwaki, where ist /home/user  ?
20:15.17teotwakiwell, /home/user is /home/user.
20:15.18XATRIXbut the problem is that my contact manager is unable to search with cirillyc names
20:15.21teotwakiNo black magic there.
20:15.22kerioXATRIX: besides, the phone app is where you search for callable-only contacts
20:15.43kerioXATRIX: can't you just start typing the letter?
20:16.46markinfoin /media/Nokia N900/ is no directory "home".
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20:18.06keriomarkinfo: the thing exported in usb mass storage is not where you should be looking for
20:18.26XATRIXcan't switch the lang during the search
20:18.44kerioXATRIX: why? ctrl+space doesn't work?
20:18.50XATRIXwait
20:19.06XATRIXwhat is ctrl ?
20:19.16XATRIXThe top left button ?
20:19.24kerioyes
20:19.30XATRIXI have deutsche keyborad :(
20:20.07XATRIXIt works, it tells me Switching lang to Russian
20:20.23XATRIXBut as i press buttons on keyboard it still types latin
20:20.48XATRIXon screen keyboard is not accessible in during contacts search
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20:21.19Aoyagithomasvs: can you fix yourself plskthx
20:21.28kerioXATRIX: hm, why not? can't you type space and then tap the search box?
20:21.38XATRIXI can
20:21.46XATRIXnothing happens
20:24.35teotwakimarkinfo: do you have linux on your laptop?
20:24.43teotwakiwell, desktop/laptop--computer
20:24.46markinfoteotwaki, yes
20:25.33teotwakimarkinfo: on your n900, open xterm, scp .rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db mark@bigPC:
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20:26.06teotwakimarkinfo: if you have ubuntu, you can sudo apt-get install sqlitebrowser
20:26.17teotwakithen open the .db file with that
20:27.01markinfothat is not problem - but how to download that db file?
20:27.12teotwakiscp .rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db mark@bigPC:
20:27.21teotwakiusing xterminal, on the n900
20:27.27teotwakiare you even reading what i'm telling you to do?
20:27.29tadzikif you copy it to MyDocs it will appear when you use the usb mass storage
20:27.47tadzikif the concept of sqlite is unfamiliar, I don't think scp foo bar will be
20:30.46XATRIXHow can i check my proximity sensor ?
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20:32.22tadzikplaying neverball :D
20:33.03teotwakimarkinfo: then you can get your texts in the form of: select start_time, remote_uid, outgoing, free_text from Events where event_type_id = 7;
20:38.09teotwakior select start_time, remote_uid, outgoing, free_text from Events join EventTypes on event_type_id = EventTypes.id where EventTypes.name = 'RTCOM_EL_EVENTTYPE_SMS_MESSAGE' order by start_time;
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20:41.07markinfoteotwaki, i have copied it to MyDocs  ... but where is upon mounten on PC that directory?
20:42.05teotwakimarkinfo: sorry, I don't have time to baby-step you through this. tadzik might want to, though.
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20:44.32markinfoin terminal on n900  i can see only a few files in home directory - upon mounten - it seems that it is some other directory.
20:44.43tadzikare you looking with ls -a
20:44.45tadzik?
20:46.57markinfoyes - there is no problem in terminal on n900 - but USB mass storage shows some other things
20:48.01tadzikdefine: other things
20:48.04markinfoe.g. DCIM directory is empty in terminal - but with USB storage is full of photos
20:48.10tadzikthat's correct
20:48.24tadzikwhen you're mounted as mass storage MyDocs contents are unavailable
20:48.31tadzikit can't be visible in two places at the same time
20:48.43tadzikeject it first, copy files, verify, plug it back in
20:49.55markinfowell - now it works.
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20:50.54markinfodatabase is 5MB
20:52.04tadzikmay be
20:53.39markinfo2 Years of using.
20:54.22markinfoand now convert it to android.
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21:16.19XATRIXHow can i save dump of my filesystem ?
21:16.39tadzikwith bootmenu for example
21:16.55XATRIXIf i do the crap, i will simple reflash it with my dump
21:17.08XATRIXInstead of reflash+reinstall apps one by one
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21:20.05markinfoHM - what is with the maemo system - is this dead definitely? I am switching to android because n900 is to slow - but do not miss some functionality.
21:21.09XATRIXhates android
21:22.25markinfois there some choice except  of windows mobile? and iphone?
21:22.57SpeedEviljollamobile
21:23.07kerioXATRIX: install backupmenu and use it
21:23.14SpeedEvilbut they have not released hardware
21:23.42SpeedEvilwindows mobile, iPhone, blackberry, android are about it.
21:23.55SpeedEvilfrom a market perspective
21:24.07SpeedEvilsymbian is holding onto some sales.
21:24.29SpeedEvilbut in most markets I suspect sybian outsells them.
21:24.51markinfowhy they have to release hardware?  Linux is also running on many systems.
21:25.35markinfois it not possible to take some existing devices? Like Cyanogenmod is taking different phones.
21:25.53Lava_Croftif im correct, its mostly about hardware drivers
21:26.02Lava_Croftthose usually aren't free and certainly not open
21:27.32markinfoand how they do that here?  http://www.cyanogenmod.org/devices
21:28.30Lava_CroftAll of those devices most likely already have working drivers since they were shipped with Android
21:28.36markinfothey are taking closed binary drivers?
21:29.33Lava_Croftwhat else?
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21:30.40keriomarkinfo: embedded systems don't have a common standard to make the hardware work
21:31.58markinfois it so hard to ask chinese to do some simpler smartphone - they are producing mass of such phones.
21:33.38markinfotons of cheap smartphones  http://www.ipmart.com/main/index.php
21:33.49markinfosome of them are looking nice
21:34.22markinfofor example http://www.ipmart.com/main/product/Star,N9776,Dual,Core,MTK6577,Cortex,A9,Quad,Band,Dual,Cards,Dual,Standby,Dual,Cameras,WIFI,GPS,Bluetooth,Android,4,0,9,6,inch,Capacitive,Touch,Screen,3G,Smart,Phone,356248.php?prod=356248  
21:35.24markinfo190$  Dual Core Cortex-A9 512MB/RAM
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21:37.19SpeedEvilI do wonder is you can buy 10000 nexus 4s for a discount
21:39.36ShadowJKIt seems like you can't buy nexus 4 at all atm
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21:40.39SpeedEvilI can buy it in the UK
21:40.46SpeedEvil5-7 weeks though
21:40.50Lava_CroftMy younger brother got that latest HTC Windows Phone 8 thing
21:40.56Lava_Croftthe 8 X orso
21:41.05Lava_CroftThe a top tier device, but if you shake it, you hear the buttons rattle
21:41.23SpeedEvilsigh
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21:53.05XATRIXI've setup a email account, how can i make all the message to be read... ?
21:53.11XATRIXI have 208 unread mail
21:53.20XATRIXBut actually it's already read
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21:58.31XATRIXOr how to delete all the messages at once ?
21:58.48XATRIXI have to click one by one to select messages to delete..it's not good
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22:05.59freemangordonXATRIX: ctrl-a
22:06.06XATRIXyea
22:06.10XATRIXalready found it
22:06.43freemangordonyou've been told this is almost like desktop distribution, ain't?
22:06.46freemangordon:P
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22:11.40XATRIXNot actually :)
22:12.15XATRIXOK..see you guys, good night!
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23:51.38FIQso how do I turn off HAM update notifications?
23:51.44FIQor, "turn off"
23:52.01FIQaka "set check-update something high"
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