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| 02:45.43 | mcamaret | does anyone know whether telepathy-theonering is still functional? |
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| 04:19.03 | wmarone_ | does anyone have a link to a Qt SDK installer for Linux with a Maemo 5 target? |
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| 05:07.37 | Jay_BEE | blah... it appears that droppin my N900 has totally obliterated by eMMC as I do not see /dev/mmcblkp1 nor /dev/mmcblkp2 |
| 05:08.02 | RST38h | eMMC ran away, look under furniture. |
| 05:08.20 | Jay_BEE | i tried to no avail... she's not coming back |
| 05:09.20 | Jay_BEE | for what it's worth i can mount maemo root |
| 05:15.14 | SpeedEvil | it is in principle possible to set it up to use SD |
| 05:15.22 | SpeedEvil | but that's tricky |
| 05:15.38 | SpeedEvil | similarly, reflowing the emmc can reportedly help |
| 05:15.44 | SpeedEvil | :-\ |
| 05:16.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 05:16.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | eMMC chip footprint is quite unfortunate |
| 05:20.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I first would try to reformat and partition it |
| 05:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw there is |
| 05:22.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 179, 8 1970-01-01 01:00 /dev/mmcblk0 |
| 05:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 179, 9 1970-01-01 01:00 /dev/mmcblk0p1 |
| 05:22.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | etc |
| 05:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | not /dev/mmcblkp1 |
| 05:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | depending on uSD present or not, I guess it as well might be minor:0 instead of minor:8 |
| 05:36.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw in /sys you still see original names of mmc: |
| 05:36.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc1/slot_name |
| 05:37.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch |
| 05:45.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jay_BEE: I'd first of all check dmesg |
| 05:45.49 | Jay_BEE | i can check that via rescueOS? |
| 05:45.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 05:46.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you could try what's in there when you try to mount mmc |
| 05:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | also /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc?/* should give some info, if it exists at all |
| 05:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel should probe for mmc, even if it doesn't mount the device |
| 05:48.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 05:48.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when it probes mmc, it shall display diagnostic output of that process in dmesg |
| 05:52.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | modprobe -r mmc_block; modprobe mmc_block |
| 05:59.05 | Jay_BEE | nothing... i don't even see a dmesg file |
| 05:59.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | file? |
| 05:59.16 | Jay_BEE | I only see /var/run |
| 05:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | dmesg is a command |
| 05:59.28 | Jay_BEE | right |
| 06:01.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like |
| 06:01.20 | Jay_BEE | a bunch of stuff scrolled by.... can't scroll back in rescueOS |
| 06:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | [ 7.505737] mmc1: new high speed MMC card at address 0001 |
| 06:01.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | [ 7.508178] mmcblk1: mmc1:0001 MMC32G 29.8 GiB |
| 06:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | [ 7.508483] mmcblk1: p1 p2 p3 |
| 06:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | use grep |
| 06:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | dmesg|grep mmc |
| 06:03.15 | Jay_BEE | I don't see a key for | , in busybox I press the arrow followed by the Sym key to select the | |
| 06:03.57 | kerio | Jay_BEE: do you have a working usb port? |
| 06:04.05 | Jay_BEE | yes i do |
| 06:04.34 | Jay_BEE | it's connected to my win xp lappy as we type |
| 06:04.47 | kerio | use usb networking to get a real shell |
| 06:05.08 | kerio | ah crap, win xp |
| 06:05.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | nin101 for sure mapped stuff like | to some fn+key |
| 06:05.27 | kerio | yeah, i think it's fn+[zxc] |
| 06:06.25 | Jay_BEE | zxc looks like 3 keys to me |
| 06:06.28 | Jay_BEE | hehe |
| 06:06.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I usually hold FN and type all the char keys until I found the right one, then enter or ^C and retype |
| 06:06.41 | kerio | :D |
| 06:06.56 | kerio | intuitive interfaces! |
| 06:09.13 | kerio | Jay_BEE: even with a nonexistent eMMC, maemo is still *kinda* usable |
| 06:09.18 | kerio | if you're willing to tinker a lot |
| 06:09.44 | kerio | and have a uSD that you'll never be able to remove |
| 06:10.08 | Jay_BEE | all I want to do is be able to copy my pictures to a media card |
| 06:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah |
| 06:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | forget it |
| 06:10.33 | kerio | no emmc = no pics |
| 06:10.44 | Jay_BEE | oh ok... my job is done here then. |
| 06:10.47 | Jay_BEE | heh |
| 06:10.54 | Jay_BEE | sits in a corner and cries |
| 06:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | even if you could recover eMMC, it would be by reformating and partitioning it |
| 06:11.15 | kerio | nah |
| 06:11.22 | kerio | ddrecover and then an undeleter |
| 06:11.34 | Jay_BEE | i'm sending her back for a replacement |
| 06:11.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | might actually work |
| 06:11.57 | kerio | Jay_BEE: figure out if the emmc is at least accessible from rescueos |
| 06:12.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | if partition table got nuked, it might even suffice to repartition it, to recover MyDocs |
| 06:12.44 | Jay_BEE | kerio: executing mass-storage-enable.sh resulted in some error on the device and xp |
| 06:13.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | screw mass storage |
| 06:13.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's way too dull a sword for this problem |
| 06:14.23 | Jay_BEE | mount-maemo-root.sh works and I can see stuff under /mnt/maemo |
| 06:14.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I almost expected that |
| 06:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, I got another 5 min to help. Up to you if you wanna tell us about mounting NAND, or rather do analysis of dmesg |
| 06:16.32 | kerio | Jay_BEE: you don't need the maemo root, you need the emmc |
| 06:16.35 | Jay_BEE | ls /dev/mmc* only displays mmcblk0 and mmcblk0p1 |
| 06:16.45 | kerio | Jay_BEE: that's the uSD then |
| 06:16.53 | kerio | damn |
| 06:16.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends |
| 06:17.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you got a uSD inserted? |
| 06:17.04 | Jay_BEE | yeah |
| 06:17.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | then kerio is right about that |
| 06:17.28 | kerio | my final diagnosis is that the emmc is thoroughly fucked |
| 06:17.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | still no reason to ignore dmesg diagnostic |
| 06:17.35 | kerio | data = very no |
| 06:17.38 | Jay_BEE | agrees with kerio |
| 06:17.49 | kerio | but you could still bring up a full fremantle system! :D |
| 06:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I agree with me that I have sth else on my schedule now |
| 06:18.02 | Jay_BEE | i can send her back and get another n900 |
| 06:18.28 | kerio | yep, i'm kinda going too |
| 06:18.32 | Jay_BEE | i was just hoping to recover some pictures and maybe the contacts but no worries at this point |
| 06:18.34 | Jay_BEE | thx for the help |
| 06:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gave advice where to find the ultimate info (dmesg) and I helped how to display it, and how to find the key |
| 06:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | could've saved my time |
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| 07:09.08 | r00t|d430 | $ wget https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/osso-suw-l10n-dadk_6.0+r7987+0m5_all.deb |
| 07:09.08 | r00t|d430 | Connecting to downloads.maemo.nokia.com (downloads.maemo.nokia.com)|95.100.35.200|:443... connected. |
| 07:09.08 | r00t|d430 | HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden |
| 07:09.19 | r00t|d430 | what's this retardedness? |
| 07:10.04 | kerio | r00t|d430: downloads.maemo.nokia.com uses auth |
| 07:10.12 | freemangordon_ | r00t|d430: you need to supply user and password. aslo you have to do wget on the device |
| 07:10.12 | kerio | and it also checks the... user agent? idk |
| 07:10.25 | freemangordon_ | *also |
| 07:10.25 | r00t|d430 | this is retarded? |
| 07:10.26 | kerio | freemangordon_: the last thing makes no sense whatsoever |
| 07:10.32 | kerio | r00t|d430: yep |
| 07:10.39 | r00t|d430 | i removed a package and phone stopped booting, i just want to reinstall it |
| 07:10.42 | freemangordon_ | kerio: it makes, because of the keys |
| 07:11.00 | kerio | freemangordon_: wget doesn't necessarily know about them |
| 07:11.11 | kerio | ...hold on, which keys? |
| 07:11.12 | kerio | ssl? |
| 07:11.15 | r00t|d430 | also: 403 does not mean auth required, that would be another status code |
| 07:11.16 | freemangordon_ | yep |
| 07:11.31 | r00t|d430 | so which user-agent do i need to spoof? |
| 07:11.50 | freemangordon_ | r00t|d430: you need to do ^^^ |
| 07:12.01 | kerio | freemangordon_: he doesn't have a working n900 |
| 07:12.04 | freemangordon_ | or ask someone else to so it for you |
| 07:12.21 | freemangordon_ | kerio: understood, but it is not me that made it that way |
| 07:13.09 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: there server does not ask for auth, so no use supplying any... |
| 07:13.25 | freemangordon_ | r00t|d430: as you wish |
| 07:13.26 | kerio | freemangordon_: still forbidden for me |
| 07:13.27 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: and what's the point in doing wget on the device? the server only sees the U-A |
| 07:13.30 | kerio | wget from the device |
| 07:13.45 | freemangordon_ | kerio: disable certificate valdation |
| 07:13.59 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: this is also net a certificate error |
| 07:14.22 | kerio | freemangordon_: not a cert error |
| 07:14.24 | freemangordon_ | kerio: user user@pass from /etc/apt/auth |
| 07:14.28 | freemangordon_ | *use |
| 07:14.33 | kerio | i just used apt |
| 07:14.51 | kerio | ...now i have no way to send it to r00t|d430 though |
| 07:15.14 | freemangordon_ | kerio: some of the irc clients support file transfer |
| 07:15.40 | r00t|d430 | kerio: could you apt-get install --reinstall --download-only osso-suw-l10n-dadk osso-suw-l10n-dede osso-suw-l10n-engb osso-suw-l10n-enus osso-suw-l10n-eses osso-suw-l10n-esmx osso-suw-l10n-fifi osso-suw-l10n-frca osso-suw-l10n-frfr osso-suw-l10n-itit osso-suw-l10n-ruru osso-suw-l10n-svse osso-suw-l10n-nono osso-suw-l10n-nlnl osso-suw-l10n-ptpt osso-suw-l10n-plpl osso-suw-l10n-mr0 osso-startup-wizard |
| 07:15.46 | r00t|d430 | kerio: and send me the packages from the cache? |
| 07:16.42 | kerio | r00t|d430: i'm with my n900 only right now |
| 07:16.55 | kerio | so i'll leave that to someone with an actual keyboard :) |
| 07:17.31 | freemangordon_ | r00t|d430: do you have scratchbox? |
| 07:17.44 | r00t|d430 | no |
| 07:18.46 | r00t|d430 | kerio: you can just do: rsync /var/cache/apt/archives constancy.org::upload |
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| 07:22.56 | r00t|d430 | ok, i'll just buy a windows mobile phone later today |
| 07:23.09 | r00t|d430 | if nokia "linux" is that retarded |
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| 07:24.28 | kerio | r00t|d430: cool story bro |
| 07:24.31 | freemangordon_ | That will be a wise move. And yes, linux is that retarded :) |
| 07:24.45 | kerio | s/linux/nokia/ actually |
| 07:24.59 | freemangordon_ | r00t|d430: BTW why did you remove those packages? |
| 07:25.02 | kerio | otoh, it's a non-free, non-redistributable component |
| 07:25.15 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: vi____ said it was ok! |
| 07:25.25 | kerio | vi____ says a lot of things |
| 07:25.53 | r00t|d430 | so what's the credentials to use? |
| 07:26.09 | freemangordon_ | r00t|d430: hold on |
| 07:28.17 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: wget --auth-no-challenge https://<>:<>@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/osso-suw-l10n-dadk_6.0+r7987+0m5_all.deb |
| 07:28.23 | r00t|d430 | works, on my notebook |
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| 07:28.45 | freemangordon_ | well, then I am wrong re certificate |
| 07:28.47 | kerio | neat |
| 07:28.53 | kerio | :D |
| 07:29.13 | kerio | r00t|d430: don't you also have to disable the ssl verification? |
| 07:29.23 | r00t|d430 | no |
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| 07:30.23 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: where would one get that user/password, other than by running strings on /usr/bin/* ? |
| 07:30.36 | freemangordon_ | cat /etc/apt/auth |
| 07:31.19 | r00t|d430 | could've done that myself from backupmenu |
| 07:33.58 | r00t|d430 | packages reinstalled, let's see if it boots again |
| 07:34.15 | freemangordon_ | <r00t|d430> i removed a package and phone stopped booting, i just want to reinstall it |
| 07:34.47 | freemangordon_ | how am I supposed to know you have access to fs judjung from ^^^? |
| 07:34.55 | freemangordon_ | *judging |
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| 07:35.18 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: if i can install packages, i obviously have fs access |
| 07:35.31 | r00t|d430 | freemangordon_: i booted backupmenu shell, mounted root and opt, chrooted into it |
| 07:35.45 | r00t|d430 | it's still hanging... so must be something else |
| 07:36.06 | r00t|d430 | but thanks, btw |
| 07:36.07 | freemangordon_ | not so obvious, you can extract and copy |
| 07:36.15 | freemangordon_ | instead of dpkg -i |
| 07:36.44 | r00t|d430 | one can even apt-get after stuffing the files into the cache |
| 07:37.04 | freemangordon_ | for example you may have booted nemo and mounted rootfs |
| 07:38.04 | freemangordon_ | so thing that are obvious to you because you see them, are not so obvious if at all to those hanging on IRC |
| 07:38.07 | freemangordon_ | *things |
| 07:38.54 | freemangordon_ | r00t|d430: check what breaks in syslog |
| 07:40.03 | r00t|d430 | will do after i am out of obvious changes to revert |
| 07:40.29 | r00t|home | <vi____> To replace startup wizard (SUW) edit /etc/X11/Xsession.d/30osso_startup_wizard |
| 07:40.52 | r00t|home | just putting 'exit' in there did not work |
| 07:42.23 | freemangordon_ | r00t|home: I still fail to see the reason for removing all those packages |
| 07:42.48 | r00t|d430 | it's just startup wizard and it's language files |
| 07:49.24 | r00t|home | well, getting rid of it is not as easy as vi____ said, it seems... |
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| 08:08.43 | r00t|n900 | the problem was: the session script i edited had a shebang on top, which had me assuming it's being executed... but it's being sourced, and putting 'exit' in there exits the session... |
| 08:10.32 | tadzik | does anyone know if there's a reason to receive bluetooth files without pairing with the other device? |
| 08:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|n900: LOL |
| 08:10.53 | tadzik | every time someone sends me stuff n900 rejects it, until I explicitely pair it up with the sender's device |
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| 08:11.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|n900: what we learnt from that? ;-D |
| 08:11.38 | tadzik | oh, I used this trick on the university so many times |
| 08:12.09 | tadzik | whenever someone left the screen unlocked, echo "echo <Random swear word>; exit" >> ~/.bashrc |
| 08:12.24 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that r00t|n900 will buy a windoze phone later today. Aah, nokia linux suck, too :P |
| 08:14.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd suggest you learn that a hideme(){ ... ... ... } (or a if false; then ... ... ... fi;) is better than a exit |
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| 08:21.50 | r00t|n900 | freemangordon: the reason i will buy a windows phone is that maemo package repos are password protected |
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| 08:23.07 | r00t|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: the real problem is that the file has a shebang for no good reason |
| 08:23.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|n900: you think windows "repos" are free for jeti and breti? |
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| 08:24.36 | r00t|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: can't be much worse than maemo, especially when i'm being told that i can only download packages to the device directly for inexplicable reasons |
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| 08:25.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that's called ssl |
| 08:27.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and in former times it actually been correct that you needed either the cert on N900 or a token in SB, to download stuff. Seems sth changed though, since I didn't install that token to my SB prior to installing all the stuff |
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| 08:28.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | the download URLs this graphical installer used were rather weird though |
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| 08:29.56 | r00t|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: then the answer would be, i have to copy the client-cert from the device first - but i'd be upgrading to windows anyway |
| 08:31.25 | freemangordon | r00t|d430: "upgrading"? |
| 08:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | you had to, 3 years ago. You don't have to nowadays it seems |
| 08:31.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and good morning and good night |
| 08:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ugt |
| 08:32.04 | infobot | rumour has it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 08:32.46 | r00t|d430 | heh |
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| 08:44.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | from SB-install: >> |
| 08:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ***NOKIA BINARIES*** |
| 08:44.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | In order to obtain Nokia-closed binaries, visit |
| 08:44.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php to accept the End User |
| 08:44.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | License Agreement. You will be given a token to access the Nokia |
| 08:44.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | binaries repository with further instructions. |
| 08:45.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | << |
| 08:45.40 | vi____ | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:46.13 | vi____ | freemangordon: The point of getting rid of SUW is it is a massive pain in the dick to have to swipe out the time and date after each hard reboot. |
| 08:46.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's no reason to get rid of the packages |
| 08:47.05 | vi____ | DocScrutinizer05: what packag in particular? |
| 08:47.17 | vi____ | s/packag/p-ackage |
| 08:47.23 | vi____ | -_- |
| 08:47.23 | r00t|d430 | vi____: you broke my phone, i'll sue for damages! |
| 08:47.29 | vi____ | what? |
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| 08:47.57 | vi____ | r00t|d430: You ended up in a bott loop? |
| 08:48.06 | vi____ | fffs, my typing. |
| 08:48.24 | r00t|d430 | vi____: see above |
| 08:49.05 | vi____ | reading |
| 08:49.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I'd have renamed the greeter binary and replaced it with a (empty) script |
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| 08:52.24 | vi____ | he problem was: the session script i edited had a shebang on top, which had me assuming it's being executed... but it's being sourced, and putting 'exit' in there exits the session... |
| 08:52.35 | vi____ | Well that was crazy. |
| 08:53.03 | vi____ | All you had to do was comment out the line about /usr/sbi/osso-startup-wizard |
| 08:53.08 | vi____ | Or whatever it is called. |
| 08:53.08 | r00t|d430 | iirc i even told you i put exit there, and you didn't warn me!!111 |
| 08:53.15 | vi____ | mmm |
| 08:53.36 | r00t|d430 | well, the rest of the script is pointless too... deleting the whole script would be the best solution |
| 08:53.48 | vi____ | r00t|d430: I concour. |
| 08:53.52 | vi____ | Have you fixed it? |
| 08:53.58 | vi____ | How can I assist you? |
| 08:55.21 | r00t|d430 | how do i deleted script? |
| 08:55.27 | vi____ | MMM |
| 08:55.30 | r00t|d430 | i fixed it |
| 08:55.32 | vi____ | do you have backupmenu? |
| 08:56.09 | r00t|d430 | just that i initially thought it was caused by removing the package, and in the process of reinstalling it had to find out how retarded maemo repos are |
| 08:56.40 | vi____ | r00t|d430: So all you have to do is edit/delete that file. |
| 08:56.48 | vi____ | Do you have backupmenu? |
| 08:57.09 | r00t|d430 | i already fixed it... |
| 08:57.15 | vi____ | Oh. |
| 08:57.33 | r00t|d430 | have backupmenu, even mounted the maemo fs and chrooted into it to install packages |
| 08:58.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|d430: maemo repos are not retarded. Not doing any protection against download by non-n900-owners, while asking for IMEI on downloading fiasco images, THAT would be really retarded |
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| 09:00.18 | vi____ | Is the meego wiki going to be included in the great backup of 2012? |
| 09:01.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the non-free binaries include stuff that Nokia licenced for distribution on N900 only. They'd face severe problems with (C)-holders of that stuff if they would indiscriminately share via internet |
| 09:03.09 | r00t|d430 | OMG!!! |
| 09:04.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed OMG why i'm wasting my time to explain that stuff to you |
| 09:05.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | go get your windows phone, please! |
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| 09:41.43 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, b-b-but some packages are only available on-device |
| 09:41.58 | Hurrian | you still can't build a complete Fremantle by using rootstock, for example |
| 09:42.39 | Hurrian | IMO, there should be work on cleaning the Fremantle fiasco images, such as removing Flash, the facebook/foreca/DTG etc. installers and cherry. |
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| 10:07.40 | vi____ | Hurrian: Dem is troll words Hurrian |
| 10:08.43 | Hurrian | vi____, would that be more prone to licensing issues? |
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| 10:09.52 | vi____ | I agree with you, however creating 'alternative' rootfs images is apparently frowned upon. To the point that you will be actively moderated if tell anyone about one you have made. |
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| 10:13.44 | vi____ | BRB COFFEE |
| 10:18.50 | vi____ | It seems a reset ACTUALLY sets the date to year 2000. |
| 10:19.31 | vi____ | It is only SUW that thinks it is 2009! |
| 10:19.40 | vi____ | Stupid SUW! |
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| 10:21.15 | merlin1991 | suw? |
| 10:21.24 | vi____ | osso-startup-wizard |
| 10:22.02 | vi____ | aka, 'the dick puncher'. |
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| 10:59.52 | vi____ | Hurrian: Does the n9 have dos2unix command? |
| 11:00.29 | Hurrian | vi____, it has unix2dos (with a switch it does the reverse), but I'm running busybox-power |
| 11:00.52 | vi____ | Do you know if it has that on the n9 stock busybox? |
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| 11:01.20 | Hurrian | vi____, no clue, lemme check the diverted binary |
| 11:01.26 | vi____ | cheers buddy |
| 11:02.27 | Hurrian | : /bin/busybox.distrib dos2unix: dos2unix: applet not found |
| 11:02.29 | Hurrian | I guess not. |
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| 11:03.25 | vi____ | what about tr? |
| 11:03.54 | vi____ | hurrian ^ |
| 11:04.31 | Hurrian | yup |
| 11:04.37 | vi____ | cool |
| 11:04.46 | Hurrian | Usage: tr [-cds] STRING1 [STRING2] |
| 11:05.06 | vi____ | I was just about to post an adblock script for the N9 on tmo then thought 'wait, does the n9 even have therse commands'? |
| 11:05.12 | Hurrian | vi____, too lazy to pull out that fancy N950 you got? |
| 11:05.19 | vi____ | Hurrian: heh. |
| 11:05.25 | Hurrian | or too annoyed? |
| 11:05.27 | vi____ | I do not have it anymore. |
| 11:05.38 | vi____ | 0.0 |
| 11:05.58 | vi____ | Do not worry, I am not a total asswipe. I sent it to a good home. |
| 11:06.09 | vi____ | At no personal profit. |
| 11:06.31 | Hurrian | ah. well, considering how much you dislike Harmattan's workings, it's understandable |
| 11:06.45 | vi____ | Hurrian: Not so much that. I could not use it. |
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| 11:07.05 | Hurrian | Use it as you did with Fremantle? It's annoying for me too. |
| 11:07.12 | vi____ | As there are no spare parts, I could not see it lasting me more than a couple of months as a main device. |
| 11:07.24 | vi____ | If I am not using it as a main device, it is not worth my time. |
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| 11:07.55 | Hurrian | ah. concerned about damaging the screen/screen damaging itself, then? |
| 11:08.39 | vi____ | correct, why invest effort into making an uttterly obsolete device my main device when it will only fail very shortly. |
| 11:09.01 | vi____ | I am to old to hang onto old hardware for sentimental reasons. |
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| 11:09.37 | Hurrian | vi____, "why invest effort?" : for masturbation to yourself for getting a rare device even marked not for sale |
| 11:09.53 | Hurrian | certain tmo-ers are certainly in it for that |
| 11:10.22 | Lava_Croft | Do I sense some envy |
| 11:10.25 | vi____ | I posessed it. |
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| 11:10.39 | vi____ | I felt the brush of its svelt aluminium body against mine. |
| 11:10.47 | vi____ | It was beautyful. |
| 11:11.06 | vi____ | s/beautyful/beautiful/ |
| 11:11.19 | vi____ | However life is to short. |
| 11:11.20 | Hurrian | Lava_Croft: A little. But I am contented with my N9, and I don't think a keyboard and being OCD about it's non-gorilla glass failing screen would've enhanced my experience. |
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| 11:11.41 | vi____ | Harmattan is not designed for keyboards. |
| 11:11.47 | Lava_Croft | It's certainly not a 'faster N900' |
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| 11:11.56 | vi____ | not even close. |
| 11:12.18 | vi____ | it is like an n900 ubermensch, castrated. |
| 11:13.19 | Hurrian | vi____, in the sense that it'll never reproduce? |
| 11:13.23 | vi____ | Hurrian: do you want to test my hosts file adblock 'script' on your n9 before I paste it on TMO? |
| 11:13.38 | vi____ | wget -O ~/hosts http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.txt && echo "127.0.0.1 rm696 localhost" > /etc/hosts && cat ~/hosts | tr -d '^m' >> /etc/hosts && cat /etc/hosts; |
| 11:13.43 | Hurrian | vi____, I'll have to pass, I stay away from system-wide host blocking. |
| 11:14.08 | vi____ | in the sense it has so much potential wasted on that silly swipe interface. |
| 11:15.24 | vi____ | Hurrian what is the contents of your hosts file? |
| 11:17.40 | Hurrian | vi____, 127.0.0.1 kotoko localhost |
| 11:17.46 | vi____ | Thankyou! |
| 11:18.21 | Hurrian | kotoko being my manually set hostname, IIRC it's RM696 stock |
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| 11:29.13 | vi____ | wtf |
| 11:29.32 | vi____ | busybox cat command is stripping windows ^M newline characters? |
| 11:29.34 | vi____ | WTF |
| 11:36.36 | vi____ | tr cannot 'see' ^M? |
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| 11:41.55 | vi____ | Hurrian: Does stock n9 busybox come with strings command? |
| 11:42.18 | jon_y | I thought strings is from binutils |
| 11:42.22 | Hurrian | vi____, apparently not |
| 11:42.47 | vi____ | GOddamn fuck busy box crippled ass shit. |
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| 11:44.25 | vi____ | tr -d "\015" |
| 11:44.36 | jon_y | try xxd? |
| 11:44.51 | vi____ | ^ the only way on stock barfbox to strip ^M from a 'dows file. |
| 11:45.03 | jon_y | I wonder when busybox will come with win.com to boot win95 |
| 11:45.11 | jon_y | or using sed |
| 11:45.19 | jon_y | s/\r\n/\n/g |
| 11:45.40 | vi____ | Or somehow just replace all that busyboxbullshit with REAL gnu tools. |
| 11:47.01 | jon_y | what does the N9 require busybox for? |
| 11:47.10 | jon_y | can't real stuff just replace it? |
| 11:49.44 | vi____ | Knowing nokia, there will be some specific kludge in the boot process that will depend on a particular bug in a particular version of a particular tool in a particular in house compile of a specific busybox binary. |
| 11:50.12 | Sicelo | heh |
| 11:58.46 | vi____ | am I missing something? |
| 11:58.53 | vi____ | chmod 000 myfile |
| 11:59.11 | vi____ | means NO ONE has permission to even read the file. |
| 11:59.25 | vi____ | Yet on the n900, I can still echo values to it as root. |
| 11:59.28 | vi____ | try it. |
| 11:59.53 | jaska | root in general can just ignore discretionary access control |
| 12:00.07 | vi____ | Well that is fucking dumb. |
| 12:07.47 | fizzie | The thing that I always do for removing CRs, tr -d '\r', does seem to work just fine with the busybox tr on my N900. |
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| 12:23.41 | jon_y | vi____: root is a super user |
| 12:23.46 | jon_y | it can do whatever it wants |
| 12:24.01 | jon_y | which is why using it for everyday stuff is discouraged |
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| 15:48.11 | kerio | vi____: root is chuck norris |
| 15:48.18 | kerio | do you think that unix perms would stop chuck norris? |
| 15:49.33 | kerio | i think that the only way it could be doable would be with a readonly bind mount on itself |
| 15:50.35 | kerio | maybe not, actually |
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| 16:05.11 | felipec | minicom /tty/ACM0 should work... right? |
| 16:05.18 | felipec | er, /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 16:06.45 | vi____ | kerio: what was your magic automatic calibration script? |
| 16:08.58 | vi____ | I need to test my new 2300mAh bl-5j. |
| 16:09.09 | vi____ | Before I flame the seller as a scammer. |
| 16:09.35 | *** join/#maemo T_X (~linus@anon-186-103.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 16:12.44 | cjdavies | right, sat here in a hotel in s'Hertogenbosch with a 3G SIM that I bought at the airport |
| 16:12.54 | vi____ | w00t |
| 16:13.02 | vi____ | south africa? |
| 16:13.10 | cjdavies | what is the easiest way to use the N900's Internet connection on my laptop? |
| 16:13.16 | cjdavies | vi____: Netherlands... |
| 16:13.22 | vi____ | aah. |
| 16:13.36 | vi____ | Afrikaans kinda looks the same. |
| 16:13.50 | mgedmin | cjdavies, usb cable |
| 16:13.55 | T_X | cjdavies: oh - I' m currently trying something similar and wanted to ask about that |
| 16:13.57 | vi____ | There is a program in the repos called hotspot. |
| 16:14.00 | mgedmin | it should show up as a regular USB 3G modem |
| 16:14.19 | cjdavies | yup, I found hotspot but it requires installing a custom kernel |
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| 16:14.20 | vi____ | either use that or use the n900 as a dial up modem. |
| 16:14.20 | mgedmin | (if you choose the right option in the menu on the N900 itself) |
| 16:14.30 | cjdavies | anybody know if the usb works in linux? |
| 16:14.45 | mgedmin | perfectly |
| 16:14.49 | vi____ | do you mean use USB dial up network on linux? |
| 16:14.52 | cjdavies | my E6 has something similar with usb but I only ever got it to work in windows |
| 16:14.54 | felipec | it used to work for me |
| 16:14.55 | vi____ | If so, yes. |
| 16:15.06 | vi____ | wvdial /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 16:15.08 | felipec | I'm having problems right now: ttyACM0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- and failed too at 115200, giving up. |
| 16:15.08 | mgedmin | (ubuntu, network manager: just plug in and use) |
| 16:15.10 | T_X | cjdavies: oh, no, had to read again. I'm trying the reverse. I want to use my laptops internet connection for my n900 |
| 16:15.28 | mgedmin | there were some bugs and regressions that eventually got fixed, iirc |
| 16:15.30 | cjdavies | ah well, I'll fire up the laptop & see |
| 16:15.36 | vi____ | cjdavies: what distro? |
| 16:15.45 | cjdavies | arch |
| 16:15.56 | vi____ | I do not know arch. |
| 16:16.08 | vi____ | But I assume you at least have wvdial. |
| 16:16.20 | cjdavies | worst case scenario, I've got a windows xp vm ;) |
| 16:16.25 | felipec | yeah, Arch has wvdial, and NetworkManager |
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| 16:18.03 | cjdavies | wtypical, I'm using wicd |
| 16:18.10 | kerio | T_X: usb networking? |
| 16:18.23 | kerio | vi____: hold on a sec |
| 16:18.34 | T_X | hm, I've setup the ip addresses and routes manuall on usb0. and the internet connection for the n900 seems to work fine, pinging internet addresses is fine. but it still shows a "network error" message for the voip accounts |
| 16:18.46 | T_X | kerio: yes |
| 16:18.57 | kerio | T_X: have you installed libicd-network-null? |
| 16:19.18 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 16:19.39 | cjdavies | so when I plug the n900 in I get the choice between mass storage & pc suite, no use phone as modem option |
| 16:19.49 | vi____ | cjdavies: pcsuite mode |
| 16:20.11 | vi____ | The n900 needs the g_nokia module loaded. |
| 16:20.20 | vi____ | (which is what pcsuite mode does) |
| 16:20.27 | cjdavies | which I don't have... |
| 16:20.46 | vi____ | what? |
| 16:20.50 | vi____ | You do not have what? |
| 16:20.52 | T_X | kerio: no, I haven't. let me check what it is supposed to do |
| 16:21.07 | kerio | T_X: it makes a "dummy connection" in the Internet Connection dialog |
| 16:21.08 | cjdavies | you mean the laptop needs to have g_nokia loaded? |
| 16:21.53 | vi____ | cjdavies: No, the n900 needs g_nokia loaded. g_nokia is loaded automatically when you select 'pc-suite mode'. |
| 16:22.00 | kerio | vi____: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1967568 |
| 16:22.06 | vi____ | kerio: cheers mate. |
| 16:22.09 | cjdavies | ah |
| 16:22.31 | cjdavies | so how does one go about using the n900 in pc suite mode as a modem in linux? |
| 16:22.41 | cjdavies | or should I just fire up the xp vm? |
| 16:22.46 | freemangordon | vi____: are you sure? as I would load g_ether on n900, install linux ethernet RNDIS adapter and do an ICS |
| 16:23.02 | kerio | cjdavies: i'd use usb networking |
| 16:23.07 | kerio | you have to do things "manually", though |
| 16:23.17 | freemangordon | kerio: ^^^ |
| 16:23.35 | T_X | kerio: ah - okay, thanks, that might work better than connecting to wifi and deleting its default route |
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| 16:23.52 | cjdavies | sounds like it'll be quicker to just do it the vm way |
| 16:23.53 | vi____ | T_X you need network null so you can trick ICD (the network manager) into believing you are connected to the net. Because you have connected it via the backend, n900 appz think you are actually disconnected(because ICD did not do the connecting). You understand? |
| 16:24.02 | kerio | cjdavies: hahahahahaha |
| 16:24.09 | vi____ | cjdavies: just plug in the usb, select pc-suite mode. |
| 16:24.10 | kerio | you've never tried to install ovi suite on a windows pc, have you |
| 16:24.17 | vi____ | cjdavies: It is all you have to do. |
| 16:24.41 | cjdavies | vi____: ... obviously it's not all you need to do in linux |
| 16:24.44 | vi____ | freemangordon: possibly, I forget. I should not have said, I seem to have confused the issue. |
| 16:24.45 | cjdavies | windows maybe |
| 16:24.52 | cjdavies | hence the vm I am starting |
| 16:24.54 | vi____ | -_- |
| 16:24.58 | vi____ | -_-' |
| 16:25.06 | vi____ | 1. plug in usb |
| 16:25.14 | vi____ | 2. select pc-suite mode. |
| 16:25.18 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.163.147) |
| 16:25.21 | vi____ | 3. Use the dialer of your choice. |
| 16:25.32 | kerio | oh right, there's that too |
| 16:25.38 | cjdavies | yes, but I don't neccessarily have a dialer |
| 16:25.47 | cjdavies | nor can I get one... obviously |
| 16:25.51 | kerio | ...what? |
| 16:25.55 | kerio | which distro are you using? |
| 16:25.55 | vi____ | ...eh? |
| 16:26.05 | freemangordon | cjdavies: new dial-up connection |
| 16:26.06 | vi____ | but you are on the net RIGHT NOW. |
| 16:26.13 | vi____ | aaah. |
| 16:26.24 | vi____ | arch must have SOMETHING built in. |
| 16:26.30 | vi____ | wvdial |
| 16:26.32 | kerio | *gnome |
| 16:26.43 | freemangordon | gnome ppp dialer |
| 16:26.48 | freemangordon | or something |
| 16:27.07 | vi____ | I do not believe arch does not come with some kind of dialer. |
| 16:27.13 | cjdavies | kay, wvdial is there |
| 16:28.10 | cjdavies | crash course in wvdial kthnx ;P |
| 16:28.15 | vi____ | dmesg, look to see what tty the n900 is on |
| 16:28.28 | vi____ | probably /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 16:28.34 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 16:29.09 | cjdavies | acm0 |
| 16:29.35 | vi____ | well you need to disconnect from the net in order to use wvdial |
| 16:29.55 | vi____ | wvdial /etc/wvdial.conf |
| 16:30.07 | vi____ | wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf |
| 16:30.17 | vi____ | ^do that to create your .conf file |
| 16:30.18 | cjdavies | you me disconnect the phone's internet? |
| 16:30.26 | vi____ | not yet |
| 16:30.36 | vi____ | plug in phone. |
| 16:30.42 | vi____ | choose pcsuite mode |
| 16:30.56 | vi____ | type in wvdialconf /etc/wvdial |
| 16:30.59 | kerio | you don't necessarily have to, i think |
| 16:31.02 | vi____ | no |
| 16:31.05 | vi____ | oh well |
| 16:31.10 | cjdavies | done, but that wvdial command fails |
| 16:31.14 | vi____ | type in wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf |
| 16:31.33 | vi____ | once you have run wvdialconf |
| 16:31.42 | cjdavies | shit it did stuff |
| 16:31.56 | vi____ | you then need to disconnect the phone from the net, then type |
| 16:32.06 | vi____ | wvdial /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 16:32.14 | vi____ | assuming your phone is on ttyACM0 |
| 16:32.25 | vi____ | and it should work. |
| 16:32.29 | T_X | vi___: well, in my case ICD did make a connection. I simply replaced the wifi default route with a default route via usb0. but that didn't seem to work though. I've installed libicd-network-null now. how do I select this dummy connection? |
| 16:32.51 | cjdavies | hm, I should probably kill wicd/networkmanager/whatever else? |
| 16:33.08 | kerio | cjdavies: so you *do* have something like that |
| 16:33.17 | vi____ | cjdavies: what? |
| 16:33.38 | cjdavies | wicd is like networkmanager |
| 16:33.52 | vi____ | on the n900 1. connect phone. 2. select pcsuite mode. 3. wvdial /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 16:33.54 | cjdavies | gui to wpasupplicant essentially |
| 16:33.57 | vi____ | IS ALL YOU HAVE TO DO. |
| 16:34.10 | vi____ | wpasupplicant?? wtf are you talking about? |
| 16:34.21 | cjdavies | not if there is a daemon like wicd controlling the entire networking system... |
| 16:34.38 | vi____ | I assume you mean on arch, not the n900. |
| 16:34.44 | cjdavies | yes |
| 16:34.50 | kerio | T_X: hm, do you see a "dummy connection" in the Internet Connection dialog? |
| 16:34.52 | mgedmin | laughs at people who do not use network manager |
| 16:34.58 | kerio | ~poettering |
| 16:34.58 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' |
| 16:35.08 | kerio | mgedmin: networkmanager is definetely poettering |
| 16:35.11 | tadzik | laughs... through tears? |
| 16:35.15 | cjdavies | my point is if I try to wvdial while wicd/networkmanager think they are in control, bad things may happen |
| 16:35.25 | vi____ | cjdavies: perhaps. |
| 16:35.28 | cjdavies | anyway, going to disconnect & see what happens |
| 16:35.34 | cjdavies | back in a few minutes |
| 16:35.35 | T_X | kerio: hm, don't think so, I only see the wifi connections in my neighborhood |
| 16:35.39 | vi____ | cjdavies: There is an arch wiki page on wvdial. |
| 16:35.50 | vi____ | if you search for archwiki wvdial you will find it. |
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| 16:35.59 | vi____ | nice clear instructions. |
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| 16:39.25 | kerio | T_X: hold on, there's some gconftool magic to do |
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| 16:39.48 | cjdavies | wvdial failed because the conf doesn't have the username/password |
| 16:39.58 | cjdavies | for some reason I can't access the wiki page |
| 16:40.02 | cjdavies | some https error |
| 16:40.27 | kerio | T_X: dbus-send --type=method_call --system --dest=com.nokia.icd /com/nokia/icd com.nokia.icd.connect string:DUMMY uint32:0 |
| 16:40.28 | T_X | kerio: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications? |
| 16:40.31 | cjdavies | 'unable to complete secure transaction' |
| 16:40.36 | kerio | yep |
| 16:40.43 | cjdavies | opens it on the server using lynx |
| 16:41.22 | vi____ | cjdavies: then you are going to have to edit /etc/wvdial.conf |
| 16:41.27 | *** join/#maemo e-yes_ (~e-yes@178.176.126.112) |
| 16:41.34 | vi____ | and add the user name and password. |
| 16:41.59 | vi____ | look up the provider for the sim card you have just bought. The information is usually freely available. |
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| 16:42.49 | cjdavies | the apnsettings for the provider say to leave user/pass blank |
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| 16:42.55 | cjdavies | they provide the apn uri |
| 16:43.01 | cjdavies | but no user/pass |
| 16:44.00 | cjdavies | is the phone number the number of the actual sim? |
| 16:44.26 | vi____ | if there is no user password, then leave them blank |
| 16:44.34 | vi____ | or use user:password. |
| 16:45.11 | cjdavies | but the phone number? |
| 16:45.14 | vi____ | you have to disconnect the n900 from the net before you use wvdial. |
| 16:45.23 | cjdavies | yup |
| 16:45.26 | vi____ | ok |
| 16:45.36 | vi____ | I do not know about the phone number. |
| 16:45.47 | vi____ | wvdial usually just works by magic. |
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| 16:47.04 | cjdavies | doesn't allow blank user/password |
| 16:47.45 | cjdavies | screw it, windows |
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| 16:51.57 | cjdavies | even windows didn't work D: |
| 16:52.12 | cjdavies | will have to switch to E6 later tonight & try that |
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| 16:52.25 | cjdavies | but now time for a meeting |
| 16:53.05 | felipec | anybody using Nokia N9 as USB modem with a recent kernel? |
| 16:53.22 | mgedmin | I don't remember |
| 16:53.30 | mgedmin | I think I did |
| 16:53.37 | mgedmin | no -- I used the N9 as a wifi hotspot |
| 16:53.39 | mgedmin | I hate cables |
| 16:53.56 | mgedmin | I could try if you want, assuming 3.5 is recent enough kernel for you |
| 16:54.27 | felipec | mgedmin: yeah, that's recent :) |
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| 16:56.05 | felipec | I've tried everything, I think it just doesn't work |
| 16:56.30 | mgedmin | it tells me it connected to GSM, it shows me the IMEI |
| 16:56.51 | mgedmin | but the settings button is greyed out |
| 16:56.55 | mgedmin | my operator name is not shown |
| 16:57.12 | felipec | mgedmin: NetworkManager? |
| 16:57.17 | mgedmin | yeah, in gnome-shell |
| 16:57.41 | felipec | mgedmin: yeah, I tried minicom /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 16:57.49 | felipec | doesn't even respond |
| 16:58.13 | T_X | yaiy, that seems to have worked now. thanks kerio, thanks vi____! |
| 16:58.16 | mgedmin | sudo screen /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 16:58.17 | kerio | ^_^ |
| 16:58.24 | mgedmin | at<enter> -> I get OK |
| 16:58.50 | vi____ | cjdavies: If you look at the gprs access point on the n900, you will see the settings. |
| 16:59.43 | tadzik | btw, what is the reason that none of the mobile hotspots for n900 have wpa2 available? |
| 17:00.26 | felipec | mgedmin: hmm, which kernel? |
| 17:01.14 | kerio | tadzik: no hostap |
| 17:01.22 | kerio | and ad-hoc wifi only supports wep |
| 17:01.57 | mgedmin | Linux platonas 3.5.0-18-generic #29-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 19 10:26:51 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 17:02.13 | tadzik | kerio: is that a wifi chip fault, or the driver? |
| 17:02.20 | kerio | tadzik: yes |
| 17:02.26 | tadzik | ha-ha |
| 17:02.30 | felipec | mgedmin: thx |
| 17:02.31 | tadzik | is that the driver's fault? |
| 17:02.43 | kerio | i don't know, i think it's the chip |
| 17:03.05 | vi____ | The best thing to do is no encryption and mac address white listing. |
| 17:03.19 | kerio | vi____: the best thing to do is usb networking |
| 17:03.38 | vi____ | kerio: oh yeah, that is better. |
| 17:03.53 | felipec | usb networking is quite difficult |
| 17:03.57 | vi____ | wires>radio |
| 17:04.07 | kerio | vi____: second best is... idk, bluetooth PAN |
| 17:04.13 | kerio | the range is awful, though |
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| 17:40.32 | myname24 | Can the digitizer of N900 malfunction because of software installed or overclocking ? |
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| 17:49.43 | jacekowski | yes |
| 17:50.03 | jacekowski | though overclocking related fault is unlikely |
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| 18:10.12 | myname24 | Last month i have been in my village and weather was cold . It may have been moisture |
| 18:11.26 | myname24 | But yesterday it worked for a while after rice and sun therapy and I decided to revert to stock speed and disable smart reflex . Now it work flawlessly :D |
| 18:14.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | RICE!!! waaah! |
| 18:14.22 | Sicelo | interesting |
| 18:14.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rice |
| 18:14.33 | infobot | rice is probably good for you |
| 18:14.34 | freemangordon | ъеах, рице |
| 18:14.39 | freemangordon | sorry |
| 18:14.46 | freemangordon | yeah, rice |
| 18:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | but not for your electronics |
| 18:15.11 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it is. it acts like silicagel |
| 18:15.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit |
| 18:15.25 | freemangordon | yeah, sure |
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| 18:16.10 | SpeedEvil | grrs. |
| 18:16.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | rice is stored at "open air" for months or years, and suddenly when your N900 is near, it starts hygroscopic properties? BWAHAHA |
| 18:16.32 | SpeedEvil | I need to do a proper video demonstration that rice is not magic |
| 18:17.23 | freemangordon | "open air" moisture is less than that of the device dropped in water |
| 18:17.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: maybe rice is like silica gel. But then it is like silica gel that been stored in open air for 3 years |
| 18:17.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | *completely* saturated |
| 18:18.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | err wut??? |
| 18:18.34 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: so, salt is not hygroscopic, because it is stored on open air? |
| 18:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's not hygroscopic because it's NaCl |
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| 18:25.10 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy |
| 18:26.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah fine, so wrap it in paper, same effect as salt |
| 18:27.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably beans are also "hygroscopic" |
| 18:27.29 | freemangordon | and rice grains are used to keep table salt from moisturing |
| 18:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | BULLSHIT!!!! |
| 18:27.58 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, at least thats what we use here. And it works |
| 18:28.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: where could i buy some silica gel, btw? |
| 18:28.22 | kerio | i've only seen it in shoe boxes |
| 18:28.33 | kerio | in those tiny paper bags |
| 18:28.39 | freemangordon | kerio: buy lots of shoes :P |
| 18:28.42 | kerio | hah |
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| 18:29.35 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ask someone living near the see how they keep table salt from moisturing, and be my guest to say "BULLSHIT!!!!" again |
| 18:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | BULLSHIT!!! |
| 18:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | rice in salt is a mechanical effect |
| 18:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you as well could use small polystyrene balls |
| 18:30.47 | freemangordon | No matter what effect is, the end result is that the salt is dry |
| 18:31.06 | freemangordon | whatever |
| 18:31.17 | kerio | no, the end result is that the salt falls down the shaker |
| 18:31.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you think industry would use expensive silica gel if rice had *any* effect, even when using ten times the amount of silica gel? |
| 18:31.55 | freemangordon | I am not saying that rice is as effective as silica gel is |
| 18:32.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, the slat isn't 'dry', it's just not agglomerating |
| 18:32.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | salt* |
| 18:32.36 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: bullshit |
| 18:32.43 | freemangordon | it is dry, try it somday |
| 18:32.47 | freemangordon | *someday |
| 18:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | listen buddy, take a dish with 20ml water and a dish with 50g of salt and place them under a cheese cover |
| 18:35.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | you honestly suggest that ~30 grains of rice could take the moisture that you suppose would constantly be aggregated by your salt in your salt dispenser? for how long? why? |
| 18:36.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | you as well could claim that the water molecules in air are scared by the rice and do not enter the salt dispenser |
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| 18:38.52 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what I say is that the salt remains dry for much longer compared to without rice |
| 18:39.19 | freemangordon | of course it moistures at the end |
| 18:39.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | a very obvious and evident consideration: what are you buying for rice in supermarket? a paper bag with 500g rice. Do you think this paper bag will weigh 600g after standing there for 4 weeks in your seaside village? |
| 18:40.01 | kerio | not if it's vacuum-sealed! |
| 18:40.03 | kerio | flees |
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| 18:41.04 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: 100 ml of water is waaay too much. On room temperature |
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| 18:42.08 | freemangordon | BTW you could try to explain the effect - salt remains dry, without anyone shaking the saltier every now and then |
| 18:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | my salt stays dry without rice |
| 18:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | here we got huge sheds where literally hundereds of tons of salt are stored for de-icing the streets. Nobody ever seen this salt getting wet or to agglutinate |
| 18:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless the roof leaks and rain comes in |
| 18:44.59 | RST38h | Germany! |
| 18:45.04 | RST38h | The land of order! |
| 18:45.11 | myname24 | It depends on the climate |
| 18:45.23 | Lava_Croft | and the kind of salt |
| 18:45.47 | Lava_Croft | here in NL the salt for de-icing is treated |
| 18:45.48 | RST38h | Moscow apparently uses sand this winter. |
| 18:45.49 | Lava_Croft | with whatever |
| 18:46.04 | Lava_Croft | Sand is quite common to use in scandinavia too, iirc |
| 18:46.14 | Lava_Croft | you just suck it up with a snorting machine when spring arrives |
| 18:46.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, you must be rich over there in Netherlands, treating your de-icing salt |
| 18:47.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | here we pick it directly from the saline |
| 18:47.28 | Lava_Croft | we mostly use a kind of 'open asphalt concrete' |
| 18:47.42 | Lava_Croft | for better water drainage |
| 18:47.55 | Lava_Croft | this does pose problems when putting shit on the road against ice, since it goes all into the asphalt |
| 18:48.18 | Lava_Croft | apparently that requires some kind of treatment for the salt |
| 18:48.23 | Lava_Croft | and rules out the use of sand |
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| 18:52.26 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: my salt stands dry here in Sofia too, but Sofia far from the see. |
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| 18:52.58 | freemangordon | *is far |
| 18:53.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably the use of rice instead of silica gel for keeping sealed goods dry is patented, that's why nobody in industry dares to use that alternative method despite it's "green" and 1000 tmes cheaper |
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| 18:55.52 | myname24 | Well after 7 hours of working normally now it stopped for some reason ( digitizer ) |
| 18:56.06 | *** part/#maemo Sicelo- (~user@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 18:57.16 | myname24 | And also right now original state restored . What could be wrong ? |
| 18:58.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | FPC defect. Or digitizer defect |
| 19:00.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly. Place 50.00g rice together with a dish full with water under a cheese cover or in a tupperware box for 24h. Then weigh the rice |
| 19:00.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | make sure you don't spill water over the rice directly |
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| 19:04.54 | vi_ | ShadowJK: ping. |
| 19:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | or place one dish with 10ml water under a cheese cover together with a dish with 100g rice, and an identical dish with 10ml water directly next to the cheese cover under open air. See which dries faster |
| 19:05.53 | vi_ | aaah the old 'leave it in a bag of rice hoax'. |
| 19:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I offer a bet: 100 bucks on the open air |
| 19:06.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: yep |
| 19:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | >:-( |
| 19:06.27 | vi_ | someone drop their phone in a toilet? |
| 19:07.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I didn't follow the original issue, just read "drying it with the rice patent" OWTTE |
| 19:07.33 | vi_ | leave it in a tub with some silica gel crystals. |
| 19:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | instantly made me start ranting |
| 19:07.48 | kerio | vi_: where can i get those? :O |
| 19:07.59 | vi_ | or strip it down to parts and leave it in the air for a couple of days. |
| 19:08.14 | vi_ | kerio: a tub? i dunno, ebay or somthing. |
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| 19:12.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: google "buy silica gel" |
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| 19:22.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: rice withdrawing moisture is not an urban legend |
| 19:23.00 | freemangordon | I gave you the salt example. |
| 19:23.32 | freemangordon | And I can witness it works (for salt) |
| 19:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: you proved one urban legend with another example of wild guessing and not knowing about the facts |
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| 19:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I told you why it works |
| 19:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | you ignored that |
| 19:24.24 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: rice keeping salt dry IS NOT an urban legend |
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| 19:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | evidently 20 grains of rice CAN NOT bind all the water that you assume the salt would aggregate in weeks and months of storing it in open air |
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| 19:26.49 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: not 20, but 3. And who talks about open air? saltiers are usually close, with just a few tiny holes on top |
| 19:26.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | if rice would work in salt like you suggested, it would 'expire' and need swapping for 'fresh' rice after a few weeks |
| 19:27.02 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sure |
| 19:27.22 | freemangordon | but by that time the salt in the saltier needs to be "changed" too |
| 19:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 19:28.03 | freemangordon | the point is that without rice it gets wet in 2 days. with rice - in 2 weeks |
| 19:28.12 | freemangordon | got it? |
| 19:28.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit |
| 19:28.29 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what is wrong with you? |
| 19:28.41 | freemangordon | take your pills, please |
| 19:28.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't take shit |
| 19:30.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I explained several scientific approaches to prove your claims. Until then you at best make it on my ignore list if you don't stop spreading baseless bogus claims |
| 19:32.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I even offered a rather attractive bet to you, you ignored it and instead continue to try to convince me by spreading BS here |
| 19:34.16 | cjdavies | jesus tittyfucking christ |
| 19:34.22 | cjdavies | got the wvdial thing working |
| 19:34.26 | cjdavies | this is so fucking convenient |
| 19:34.46 | cjdavies | turns out I just needed to randomly copypasta a random phone number string from some random pastebin |
| 19:34.53 | kerio | *99#? |
| 19:34.55 | cjdavies | also, glad this was the right channel when I started typing that |
| 19:34.59 | kerio | that's like standard |
| 19:34.59 | cjdavies | something like that |
| 19:35.01 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you may call it bullshit or whatever, but rice keeping the salt dry(in saltier) is a fact of life. Ask whoever you want and who lives in a place with high humidity. I am out of that conversation, as it is pointless |
| 19:35.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 19:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | F O! |
| 19:35.32 | freemangordon | ~F O |
| 19:36.41 | kerio | "Even 11.11 oz ( a lot more than those few grains of rice in a shaker) of very dried rice in a very humid day did not absort any noticeable moisture." |
| 19:36.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | fact of life is that a few grains of whatever in salt stop it from agglutinating |
| 19:37.16 | kerio | rice in salt prevents clumping *mechanically* |
| 19:37.41 | kerio | hell, it probably works well because the salt keeps the rice dry |
| 19:37.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | any relation to humidity yet to prove, and simple applied logic shows it can't be the hygroscopic properties of rice that cause it |
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| 19:38.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: good point :-D |
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| 19:49.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and btw even that "fact of life" is not really commonly accepted as true. Several scientists state that the rice is a placebo, and A vs B tests show no clear results |
| 19:53.44 | vi_ | I dunno. |
| 19:54.05 | vi_ | There does apppear to be some papers written on the subject. |
| 19:54.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the 'hygroscopic properties of NaCl' are also nonsense. In former times it been Mg and Ca salts in stone salt that are really extremely hygroscopic and rice might suck up the watery solution of CaCl and thus keep the NaCl "dry" |
| 19:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | this however doesn't mean that rice is particularly hygroscopic |
| 19:57.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | a few small balls (or stripes) of paper towel in the salt would serve same purpose as the rice |
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| 20:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw this reasoning pretty much explains why scientific research regarding rice in salt doesn't yiled coherent results. One salt isn't like the other, and it's actually the percentage of CaCl in ordinary salt that's relevant for the results |
| 20:07.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yield* |
| 20:11.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride "Because of its hygroscopic nature, anhydrous calcium chloride must be kept in tightly sealed, air-tight containers." "The anhydrous salt is deliquescent; it can accumulate enough water in its crystal lattice to form a solution." |
| 20:12.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | now that we made that clear, it's hopefully evident that rice is ineffective to dry electronics by just placing them into rice |
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| 20:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | placing them into (or rather next to) unrefined stone salt would for sure have better (since _any_) effect |
| 20:15.23 | SpeedEvil | place in oven at 70c for a day |
| 20:16.00 | SpeedEvil | I did this to an entire laptop (minus ram and HD) after washing thouroughky in water. |
| 20:16.23 | SpeedEvil | ( I'd poured quite a lot of coffee through the CPU fan inlet) |
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| 20:24.50 | vi_ | SpeedEvil: niceone |
| 20:25.16 | SpeedEvil | works fine several months later. |
| 20:25.21 | SpeedEvil | also a lot cleaner |
| 20:26.20 | trumee | SpeedEvil: my experience with android, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1289795&postcount=623 |
| 20:26.26 | NeutrinoPower | I want use sipgate with Maemo, what is the adress? user-ID@sipgate.de or username@sipgate.de ? |
| 20:27.25 | SpeedEvil | trumee: quasseldroid |
| 20:27.56 | trumee | SpeedEvil: i run znc bouncer, can quasseldroid work with it? |
| 20:28.02 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 20:28.12 | SpeedEvil | it's sort of an alternative to bouncers |
| 20:28.15 | Sicelo900 | why not? |
| 20:28.28 | SpeedEvil | there os a persistent core, on an always up machine |
| 20:28.30 | SpeedEvil | is |
| 20:28.41 | SpeedEvil | clients connect to this. |
| 20:29.05 | SpeedEvil | and act like they were never discojpnnected |
| 20:29.14 | trumee | SpeedEvil: doesnt it need a specific quassel client, rather than any generic client? |
| 20:29.18 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 20:29.35 | SpeedEvil | qd is a android client |
| 20:29.45 | trumee | SpeedEvil: is there a N900 client? |
| 20:29.55 | SpeedEvil | I vaguely remember one |
| 20:30.09 | ShadowJK | iirc Luke-Jr uses quassel |
| 20:30.12 | Sicelo900 | yes, there is quassel for N900 |
| 20:30.17 | SpeedEvil | in principle, it's qt |
| 20:30.50 | trumee | SpeedEvil: also, is it possible to export a calender from N900 and import it on android Without going through google? |
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| 20:31.11 | Sicelo900 | heh. |
| 20:31.17 | SpeedEvil | no idea |
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| 20:31.33 | Sicelo900 | i think not. |
| 20:31.39 | freemangordon | trumee: is it possible to do anything on android without google? |
| 20:31.43 | trumee | Sicelo: what a shame! |
| 20:31.43 | SpeedEvil | my calendar at the moment has two events |
| 20:31.52 | trumee | freemangordon: i am trying to work that out :) |
| 20:31.56 | Sicelo900 | the few droids i've seen can't import vcals |
| 20:32.07 | SpeedEvil | and one of those is to remjng me to take out the bins |
| 20:33.35 | trumee | maecaltool on maemo doesnt work either for me. |
| 20:33.46 | Sicelo900 | trumee: it might be possible.. now i think of it. if you have access to an ms exchange server, lol |
| 20:35.32 | trumee | ah, maecaltool works fine now |
| 20:35.53 | trumee | Sicelo: android is very limiting on standard things |
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| 20:41.04 | Sicelo900 | today i attached to a cisco router's console via the console cable + usb-serial adapter + h.e.n , and dealth a huge blow to all the techs i work with, who own different types of android & iphone devices |
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| 20:47.06 | vi_ | Sicelo900: fucking nice one! |
| 20:47.36 | vi_ | real(ish) serial port on the n900 is badass. |
| 20:48.41 | teotwaki_ | the fact you don't have a serial terminal in server room big enough to house multiple techs is slightly worrying. |
| 20:49.08 | vi_ | that also. |
| 20:49.26 | Sicelo900 | heh |
| 20:49.30 | vi_ | he probably did, but needed to swag his e-peen. |
| 20:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<SpeedEvil> place in oven at 70c for a day)) yep, absolutely correct |
| 20:49.57 | Sicelo900 | vi_: exactly.. it was just a 'naughty' gamble, |
| 20:51.25 | trumee | seems maecaltool cannot create individal ics files for events |
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| 21:00.39 | Sicelo900 | hmm, 70c for a day... DocScrutinizer05, SpeedEvil we're talking degrees celcius? |
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| 21:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 21:02.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | the exhaust fan of your PC or laptop is a pretty good place to dry electronics |
| 21:03.14 | Sicelo900 | i'd have thought that's a bit too high. then again, thanks for this info |
| 21:03.17 | Sicelo900 | :-) |
| 21:03.47 | SpeedEvil | Sicelo: consider the temperature of an item left on a car seat in the sun |
| 21:03.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's kinda upper limit. you shouldn't go any higher than 70°C |
| 21:03.59 | SpeedEvil | indeed |
| 21:04.36 | SpeedEvil | you need to get water out of .5mm thick gaps that may be 20mm derp |
| 21:04.39 | SpeedEvil | deep |
| 21:04.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 21:05.01 | SpeedEvil | that takes a fair amount of drying |
| 21:05.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | rinsing with 98% ethanol is a good idea |
| 21:05.22 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:05.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | it replaces the water |
| 21:05.36 | SpeedEvil | I diddn't have any to hand. |
| 21:05.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and evaporates way quicker, and is less conductive |
| 21:05.46 | SpeedEvil | I was feeling truly crap |
| 21:06.01 | SpeedEvil | hence wash the whole thing was the only option |
| 21:06.16 | SpeedEvil | dissasembly wasn't an option |
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| 21:21.43 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, what happened to the irc cloaks? |
| 21:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I have to send a mail, didn't get around to it yet. don't hold your breath though, historically it takes weeks to months to process cloak changes |
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