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| 00:03.30 | hatseflats | evening everyone |
| 00:03.36 | hatseflats | got a problem with my n810 |
| 00:04.23 | hatseflats | a year back or so I think I messed up a flash session, and the device hasn't been the same since. I'm trying to get it into usb flashing mode |
| 00:05.19 | hatseflats | setup; device is off, usb is in, and when I hook up the power connector, it starts flashing the nokia logo on and off, a cycle takes about 2 seconds total |
| 00:05.52 | hatseflats | nokia logo comes up, brightness dims slightly, screen goes off, repeat, in a very short time |
| 00:06.47 | Lava_Croft | das minder |
| 00:07.27 | hatseflats | when I unplug the usb cable attached to my notebook, it comes up to an alternative bootloader, not sure which anymore, the only message I see is 'press and hold MENU to enter advanced boot options', but holding said key doesn't do anything, when that message pops up (that's after the nokia logo's been in view for a few seconds) it almost instantly reboot |
| 00:07.32 | hatseflats | s |
| 00:08.06 | hatseflats | anyone have any idea how I can break this cycle? |
| 00:08.47 | hatseflats | das zeker minder, Lava_Croft |
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| 00:11.37 | Lava_Croft | You are holding the 'home' key pressed? |
| 00:11.42 | Lava_Croft | while connecting the charger |
| 00:12.28 | hatseflats | yeah, about that, I'm guessing people saying 'switch key' and 'home key' mean the same thing right? first button underneath the front facing camera on the left side of the device? |
| 00:12.37 | Lava_Croft | double square button |
| 00:12.45 | Lava_Croft | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=869958&postcount=9 |
| 00:12.47 | hatseflats | (I tried every other physical button as well, but hey, just to be sure) |
| 00:12.48 | Lava_Croft | there's also that |
| 00:13.11 | Lava_Croft | but im a bad helper, i dont own a n810 and im just googling instead of going to bed :| |
| 00:13.19 | Lava_Croft | So goodnight and good luck |
| 00:13.31 | hatseflats | thanks :) |
| 00:13.38 | Lava_Croft | try going around the maemo forums |
| 00:13.45 | hatseflats | google's turning up a shitstorm of results, that's basically the problem |
| 00:13.49 | Lava_Croft | yup |
| 00:13.52 | hatseflats | bomen/bos enzo |
| 00:13.55 | hatseflats | oh well |
| 00:13.56 | hatseflats | 'nite |
| 00:14.01 | Lava_Croft | try to be more specific with the search query |
| 00:14.05 | Lava_Croft | or just randomly click links, who knows |
| 00:14.16 | Lava_Croft | good luck, o/ |
| 00:28.24 | hatseflats | I have this feeling it's "all" because I have *no* batteries for the thing with a proper charge |
| 00:28.40 | hatseflats | anyone know if there's a trickle charge mode for the n810? |
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| 00:36.34 | mad_dev | general q: how do you switch channels in irssi on n900? |
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| 01:23.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | hatseflats: a) menu button != home button |
| 01:24.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | b) home button hold down while plugging in power is the recommended method to start flashing |
| 01:24.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is what I'd suggest you to do |
| 01:25.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | (menu button is under 4way cursor jog) |
| 01:28.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hatseflats: and yes, you need a working battery with proper charge, your symptoms sound like your battery went zombie state during that year in shelf |
| 01:29.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's probably no charging without booted system on N810 |
| 01:31.29 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: best way to keep it alive is to simply hook it up to a usb port and leave it there? |
| 01:31.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | N810? hardly |
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| 01:31.57 | jon_y | how do you put it in cold storage? |
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| 01:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik it doesn't use USB charging |
| 01:32.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | remove battery |
| 01:32.08 | jon_y | oh ok |
| 01:32.29 | jon_y | and have spare batteries in case it dies? |
| 01:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't hurt |
| 01:33.04 | jon_y | the way I see it now, phone isn't the problem when in storage |
| 01:33.22 | jon_y | dead battery means no more use ever |
| 01:33.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, as usual, you got no problem at all as long as your root fs and system is in good condition |
| 01:33.34 | jon_y | especially if you can no longer find replacements |
| 01:34.33 | jon_y | wondering if he should stock up on BL-5Js for n900 |
| 01:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ever wondered why battery isn't inserted when you unbox your new $device ? |
| 01:34.49 | jon_y | yeah, there is a constant drain |
| 01:35.21 | robbiethe1st | Only way to keep Li-on batteries from slowly degrading over time is to carefully and slowly freeze them. |
| 01:35.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, the advice in user manual is real: remove battery when storing devie for extended periods of non-usage |
| 01:35.37 | robbiethe1st | And then slowly thaw them before use. |
| 01:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | freezing LiIon is a pretty bad idea |
| 01:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | best storage temperature according to cell manufs: 5..10°C |
| 01:36.59 | jon_y | in the fridge? :) |
| 01:37.03 | robbiethe1st | Personal experience says otherwise. You can't /use/ it in any way shape or form when frozen, but they do thaw correctly. |
| 01:37.14 | SpeedEvil | mine are in my freezer |
| 01:37.21 | SpeedEvil | at -25c |
| 01:37.29 | SpeedEvil | they recover completely |
| 01:37.30 | jon_y | how do you thaw them? |
| 01:37.30 | robbiethe1st | I've dropped mine in the freezer(inside a plastic bag, of course) and left em there for a year+. No seeming harm. |
| 01:37.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | bad bad bad idea |
| 01:37.47 | jon_y | I suppose water droplets forming is a bad bad thing |
| 01:37.51 | robbiethe1st | Just let them come up to room temperature normally; hopefully somewhere dry |
| 01:37.54 | SpeedEvil | jon_y: remove them in a baggie, leave to warm |
| 01:38.22 | jon_y | SpeedEvil: won't water droplets form? |
| 01:38.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | while chemistry doesn't age in freezer, the freezing itself does damage to the cell |
| 01:39.01 | jon_y | or do you mean warm them while in a bag? |
| 01:39.06 | SpeedEvil | jon_y: yes |
| 01:39.10 | SpeedEvil | sealed bag |
| 01:39.18 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: hmm. |
| 01:39.22 | robbiethe1st | Seems if you freeze it slowly, it'll work fine. |
| 01:39.51 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: well, I've seen no evidence. not to say it may not be a problem for some |
| 01:40.04 | robbiethe1st | DocS has no personal experience with freezing, he's just looked at datasheets which talk about the storage temperature and don't say anything below it. We've argued before about it. ;) |
| 01:40.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | *if* there's real freezing in the cell electrolyte, you'll inevitably pierce the dielectric membrane |
| 01:40.17 | jon_y | ok, in a sealed bag, put in fridge first, before moving it into the freezer :) |
| 01:40.37 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: you're assuming it freezes like water |
| 01:40.44 | *** part/#maemo kolp (~kolp@212.255.17.96) |
| 01:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | -25°C are not sufficent to do severe damage to cell yet, but it's probably close |
| 01:41.38 | SpeedEvil | I should probably check the volume change on freezing and crystal structure |
| 01:41.55 | jon_y | I have a consumer level freezer, no way to reach -25 :) |
| 01:41.56 | robbiethe1st | ^^ |
| 01:42.07 | robbiethe1st | SpeedEvil, I'd love to see that |
| 01:42.13 | jon_y | probably 1-2 at most |
| 01:42.14 | robbiethe1st | I want facts here. |
| 01:42.18 | SpeedEvil | well, they went down to -48C when I was expecting a power cut, and put 'boost' on for 2 days |
| 01:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, there's no advantage whatsoever to store at temp below +5°C |
| 01:42.44 | robbiethe1st | How do you know? |
| 01:43.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | from school |
| 01:43.10 | SpeedEvil | I agree, practically, stored at 40% charge |
| 01:43.23 | robbiethe1st | Also, darn Centigrade. I was thinking +5F, well, that's way below freezing already... |
| 01:43.46 | jon_y | heh, Fahrenheit |
| 01:43.53 | robbiethe1st | Silly people and their not-Fahrenheit system. |
| 01:44.11 | jon_y | also, centigrate is the old name, it's celcius now |
| 01:44.23 | jon_y | I have no idea when it was changed |
| 01:44.24 | SpeedEvil | http://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/15939865661645084923?rlz=1Y3NDUG_enGB499GB499&oq=hotpoint+rcn&client=tablet-android-asus-nexus&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&q=hotpoint%20rcnaa300p&sa=X&ei=1kikULGoFYjM0QWu_oGQDA&ved=0CEMQ8wIwAQ |
| 01:44.36 | SpeedEvil | I was surprised it got that low. |
| 01:45.46 | SpeedEvil | my thermometer conked out at -40, I'm extrapolating from the graph |
| 01:46.04 | SpeedEvil | it took about 16h to hit -40 unplugged |
| 01:46.18 | jon_y | get a mercury thermometer? |
| 01:46.30 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 01:46.44 | SpeedEvil | digital from lidl |
| 01:47.01 | jon_y | I like old school mercury tubes :) |
| 01:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf p.4 top |
| 01:49.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | storage temp range: -20~+45°C |
| 01:49.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | discharge: -20~+60 |
| 01:50.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | charge: 0(!)~45°C |
| 01:50.47 | SpeedEvil | stupid android aegfaulting reader |
| 01:50.53 | SpeedEvil | will look at tomorrow |
| 01:51.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | if -25°C would serve the cell well, manufacturer would've mentioned that, don't you think? |
| 01:51.14 | jon_y | what does it show on segfault? |
| 01:51.44 | jon_y | I have just seen iPad apps crashing yesterday |
| 01:52.04 | jon_y | it just mysteriously show the user the home area |
| 01:52.55 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: only if the lower temp is for some reason other than that they diddn,t test it. |
| 01:53.03 | SpeedEvil | jon_y: app dies |
| 01:53.29 | SpeedEvil | jon_y: entertainingly, reload from the app list, and system.ui dies |
| 01:53.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: hm? |
| 01:55.08 | jon_y | SpeedEvil: it just kick you back to the home screen? |
| 01:56.07 | SpeedEvil | jon_y: acts like you hit back. or all the decoration on windows and footer/header goes away for system.ui |
| 01:56.56 | SpeedEvil | should look this up tomorrow. |
| 01:56.57 | jon_y | :( |
| 01:57.37 | jon_y | an app crash should never bring down a system |
| 01:57.49 | deepy\SIGSEGV | Indeed |
| 01:57.51 | jon_y | you'd thought they learnt that 20 years ago |
| 01:58.48 | SpeedEvil | it doesn't. |
| 01:58.58 | SpeedEvil | it's like a window manager restart |
| 02:01.41 | jon_y | a window mamanger needs a restart because some app crashed... |
| 02:02.08 | jon_y | wait, a window manager on android?? |
| 02:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: mercury melting point (resp freezing point): 234.32 K, -38.83 °C, |
| 02:03.09 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: ouch |
| 02:03.24 | jon_y | I should probably mean alcohol type thermometers |
| 02:03.29 | SpeedEvil | jon_y: no. the thing that shows the top and bottom bars. not really a wm. |
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| 02:04.32 | jon_y | hmm, I don't have an android device, not sure what those are |
| 02:11.14 | SpeedEvil | :-( |
| 02:11.38 | SpeedEvil | I'm hoping Jolla releases something cool. |
| 02:12.30 | SpeedEvil | I also have some ideas for hw,for which android would need to be the interface. |
| 02:13.44 | jon_y | Jolla? |
| 02:13.51 | jon_y | ~Jolla |
| 02:14.34 | SpeedEvil | Nokia people doing phone |
| 02:14.42 | SpeedEvil | see #jollamobile |
| 02:14.56 | SpeedEvil | sort of n900 inheritor |
| 02:15.08 | jon_y | I hope it has uart and ethernet ports :) |
| 02:15.33 | SpeedEvil | Ethernet on a phone would be kinda odd |
| 02:15.39 | jon_y | well, at least uart for us dbuggers/hackers |
| 02:15.56 | nox- | n900 has that too under the battery right? |
| 02:16.03 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 02:16.06 | jon_y | yeah, kind of hard to access |
| 02:16.10 | nox- | yeah |
| 02:16.59 | jon_y | just put it at the bottom or the side of the chassis |
| 02:17.47 | SpeedEvil | accessible UART is about #86 on my priority list |
| 02:18.23 | SpeedEvil | just above 'works with iTunes' and 'v12 turbo diesel power source' |
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| 02:18.34 | jon_y | and put real GNU/Linux on it, I never likedm android |
| 02:18.46 | jon_y | s/likedm/liked/ |
| 02:19.04 | jon_y | it's no successor if it runs android only |
| 02:19.11 | SpeedEvil | in some ways an android app compatibility layer would be good. |
| 02:19.26 | SpeedEvil | but that does bad things to the native market |
| 02:19.47 | mad_dev | like the wetab |
| 02:20.12 | jon_y | app compat layer is fine, as long as I get my eglibc access |
| 02:20.21 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B49084.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:20.21 | jon_y | and gnu userland |
| 02:20.28 | mad_dev | based on meego OS...supports android apps |
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| 02:21.15 | jon_y | cool, and please no aegis |
| 02:21.45 | SpeedEvil | aegis, if the user can add appstores is not a bad thing IMO. |
| 02:22.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | laughs a bit at all virtual machines in maemo infra running Ubuntu, while the phy servers are all on OpenSuse |
| 02:22.17 | jon_y | s/appstores/apt sources/ |
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| 02:22.41 | jon_y | or whatever rpm equivalent |
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| 02:43.27 | ShadowJK | the N900 uart would be "trivially" accessible if we had supply of jigs :) |
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| 03:37.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | suggested read: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/523537/0ab1f2cc31a0f6bb/ |
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| 04:06.59 | Skry | good read |
| 04:10.06 | Hurrian_ | DocScrutinizer05, brilliant article. |
| 04:10.28 | Hurrian_ | It's exactly my thoughts on devices with locked bootlooaders. |
| 04:10.58 | Hurrian_ | IMO, I have no problem with omitting a feature on a product due to dev time/cash restraints |
| 04:11.29 | Hurrian_ | but as computers and not fixed function machines, they should be user programmable. |
| 04:11.45 | Hurrian_ | As much of the stack as possible should be user-programmable. |
| 04:12.00 | Hurrian_ | Locking the user out is a terrible, terrible thing. |
| 04:14.10 | *** join/#maemo dashin__ (~dd@94.253.109.139) |
| 04:19.33 | SpeedEvil | wants opensourcxe microwave |
| 04:20.01 | Skry | just yesterday i was thinking that why oh why do I have to purchase yet another device or two, when I have several omap1's and few 2420 in house unused, that would be capable for the job. |
| 04:20.34 | Skry | so, thanks nokia |
| 04:20.53 | SpeedEvil | Skry: the amount of poorly documented stuff in boxes I have is insane |
| 04:22.12 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 04:23.12 | Skry | SpeedEvil: yeah, it's amazing how much hardware everyone has which could be made of use but capitalists think differently |
| 04:23.41 | SpeedEvil | and stupid stuff. |
| 04:23.55 | SpeedEvil | I want a kettle with a 15 year guarantee |
| 04:27.38 | Skry | :P |
| 04:31.39 | Skry | hmm, some russian guy has apparently successfully loaded uboot on N70, loading kernel crashes the phone though.. now, that same guy is selling the source on some forum :) |
| 04:31.52 | Hurrian_ | Skry, OMAP2xxx? Time to run Maemo on the N95. It even has a GPU! |
| 04:32.14 | Skry | It has everything |
| 04:33.26 | Skry | but can't do shit with it, no idea how the bootloader works, or what bootloader(s) it even has, or is it even possible to run anything but symbian on it |
| 04:34.07 | Skry | I know it is not "standard" 2420 though |
| 04:38.10 | Skry | I believe Nokia requested TI to change some registers or somthing |
| 04:38.52 | Skry | maybe I should just throw it and all the other useless nokias to trash where they belong |
| 04:38.55 | SpeedEvil | might just be the boot loader? |
| 04:39.23 | Skry | SpeedEvil: might be, I cant find any info of the matter for some reason |
| 04:40.33 | SpeedEvil | sigh |
| 04:43.11 | Skry | well, at least my philips tv runs linux and has openish firmware, in case i get bored enough to brick the only display I have in house :P |
| 04:44.35 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
| 04:47.11 | Skry | DocScrutinizer05: do you know anything about the boot process of N95? |
| 04:50.30 | Skry | I would be tempted to think it has x-loader involved at some point |
| 05:19.18 | ShadowJK | Interesing, A-data has "Ultra High Speed" microsdhc, which in marketing material claims "random write speeds up to 191 IOPS" |
| 05:19.38 | ShadowJK | benchmarked most cards to about 4 |
| 05:21.13 | ShadowJK | i wonder if it's true |
| 05:25.24 | Drathir | dont forgive only have freqy day and night when wake up goin to continiue adventure with reflash... |
| 05:33.18 | joga | ShadowJK which class cards? |
| 05:33.22 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-174-214.as13285.net) |
| 05:33.34 | ShadowJK | it doesn't have a class rating |
| 05:33.39 | joga | heh |
| 05:34.22 | ShadowJK | http://www.multitronic.fi/media.php?id=9954 |
| 05:36.18 | Skry | ..internal testing :) |
| 05:36.52 | Skry | could be worth benchmarking though |
| 05:37.31 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 05:39.32 | Skry | too bad can't afford 63e |
| 05:39.46 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: I feel angry after reading the article :( |
| 05:39.56 | jon_y | damn camera has no raws support |
| 05:41.10 | ShadowJK | I'm going to order the 16g one for testing |
| 05:41.53 | Skry | drop a line when you get the results |
| 05:42.38 | ShadowJK | wtf, delivery in envelope not an option |
| 05:42.48 | Hurrian_ | Skry, apparently my TV came with a GPL CD and toolchain and instructions. |
| 05:43.15 | Hurrian_ | Wonderful. Time to build a rootfs with busybox, and load programs off /opt. |
| 05:46.21 | Skry | Hurrian_: thats great. you have usb port on it? |
| 05:46.49 | Hurrian_ | Skry, yup, apparently it uses ffmpeg with binary blob for decode acceleration |
| 05:50.14 | Hurrian_ | Uses some sort of MIPS CPU, but the TV side of it is completely separate from the Linux side |
| 05:51.23 | Hurrian_ | there's a binary that controls the source->panel switcher, and the fb driver that it comes with just draws the changed pixels on top of the display surface |
| 05:52.03 | jon_y | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:52.07 | jon_y | ? |
| 05:52.46 | jon_y | kind of moot if it's like a tivo |
| 05:52.49 | Hurrian_ | jon_y, needs uclibc built stuff, fortunately the toolchain's included, for cross compile from x86 |
| 05:53.29 | Hurrian_ | I need to flash a root with ext2 support and busybox included first, then we can have fun. |
| 05:53.37 | jon_y | does the binaries need to be signed? |
| 05:53.40 | Hurrian_ | Nope. |
| 05:54.15 | Hurrian_ | All you need to do is pack the rootfs into a jffs2 image and flash it. |
| 05:54.16 | jon_y | nice |
| 05:55.02 | Hurrian_ | ooh, 512M CPU accessible RAM. |
| 05:55.11 | Skry | mines mips too, somewhat limited in RAM but should suffice for cmdline stuff. Similar behaviour as hurrians, just throw the image to usb stick and go. |
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| 05:55.44 | jon_y | my TV is still a jumbo CRT tube |
| 05:55.46 | Hurrian_ | To clarify, it's a MIPS32r1 core. |
| 05:58.41 | Hurrian_ | Skry, I think I can run a semi-decent system on this thing, |
| 05:59.43 | Hurrian_ | I can apparently tell the muxer chips to resize the input stream, or blank it entirely, allowing me to have PIP while say, doing some light browsing. |
| 06:02.20 | Hurrian_ | jon_y beware, iirc the Samsung Smart TVs are tivoized Linux. |
| 06:03.06 | Skry | Hurrian_: awesome! I think I'm gonna take a look at mine too. btw what make and model you have? |
| 06:04.15 | Hurrian_ | Skry, a 42 inch LG TV, and from the GPL CDs, it seems that the 32 inch ones downstairs run on the same platform |
| 06:05.18 | jon_y | Hurrian_: cool, I will consider an LG when purchasing TVs in the future |
| 06:05.32 | jon_y | all of them running Linux? |
| 06:05.57 | Hurrian_ | Oh, and Skry and jon_y, these two are regular LCD TVs, no smart tv gimmick thing. |
| 06:06.19 | Hurrian_ | jon_y, yup, 2.6.31. |
| 06:06.30 | jon_y | LCD TVs with 1920p output? |
| 06:06.59 | jon_y | I need one for my xmbc :) |
| 06:07.18 | Hurrian_ | 1920p? I think you mean 1080p or 1920x1080. |
| 06:07.36 | Hurrian_ | Unless you're talking about a vertical TV. |
| 06:07.38 | Skry | yeah. i have 42" philips fullhd, no "smart tv" shit or anything in it. i think most of the philips 7xxx, 8xxx and 9xxx run linux |
| 06:07.47 | jon_y | oops, yeah 1080p |
| 06:08.27 | jon_y | Hurrian_: what's your model number? |
| 06:10.04 | Hurrian_ | jon_y, 32LK310 for the 32 inch one, going to check the 42 inch one |
| 06:11.57 | jon_y | I wonder if it's practical to use the 32 inch as a clonned secondary monitor |
| 06:11.58 | Hurrian_ | most of the 32LK series should be the same, the difference only being in the casing, which appeals to different markets |
| 06:13.06 | Hurrian_ | I'll check my sister's Bravia non-internet TV when I get to her place, but IIRC it runs a proprietary RTOS. |
| 06:13.20 | jon_y | play my PC vidya game with a screen watchable in the living room |
| 06:14.12 | jon_y | so nobody needs to crowd around me |
| 06:14.30 | Hurrian_ | jon_y, uhh, how long would that cable be? |
| 06:14.49 | jon_y | Hurrian_: pc does not need to be far off |
| 06:15.14 | jon_y | as long as nobody crowds around the far far smaller PC screen |
| 06:15.21 | Hurrian_ | ah. I know some people with HDMI cables running 10m ;) |
| 06:15.50 | jon_y | 2-3m would be good enough |
| 06:18.15 | jon_y | I tried streaming with ffmpeg once |
| 06:18.27 | jon_y | quality was poor, cpu usage went up badly |
| 06:18.41 | jon_y | not enough bandwidth for raw stream |
| 06:19.05 | Hurrian_ | heh, any sort of transcoding would make high profile 1080 look awful. |
| 06:19.27 | jon_y | x264 looks decent, except the cpu usage spiked |
| 06:19.56 | Hurrian_ | jon_y, now try passing that through WiFi-G to a PS3. |
| 06:20.06 | Hurrian_ | That endeavor was painful. |
| 06:20.27 | jon_y | raw stream is OK, if your network can sustain 50MB/s |
| 06:20.39 | jon_y | 1Gbit home network |
| 06:20.57 | jon_y | kind of rare for a TV appliance to even have 1Gbit |
| 06:21.15 | Hurrian_ | Also, most transcoders bombed out on Hi10P video. So I ended up using a very long HDMI cable to display output from MPCHC. |
| 06:21.43 | jon_y | heh, there are no hw decoders for 10bit yet, none that I know of |
| 06:22.32 | Hurrian_ | it'd be years if ever before hi10p gets supported though in hw |
| 06:22.57 | Hurrian_ | I assume most SoC manufacturers would jump to H265 instead |
| 06:23.10 | jon_y | try gaming, while transcoding, that suck bad unless you have dual socket workstations |
| 06:23.41 | Hurrian_ | jon_y, depends on process priority ;) |
| 06:23.51 | jon_y | cpu usage with x264 takes about 25% cpu time |
| 06:24.02 | jon_y | while recording an idle desktop at 1080p |
| 06:24.47 | jon_y | not good when showing on-screen game action |
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| 06:42.05 | Skry | I actually have this 42" as my primary display, and couch as my primary position :) My font size is huuge. |
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| 08:36.10 | Lava_Croft | hatseflats: fixed it? |
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| 08:59.21 | kerio | vi_: luf is online btw |
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| 09:43.46 | Ken-Young | How are the maemo servers going to be paid for once Nokia stops paying? |
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| 09:58.28 | Hurrian | Ken-Young, they don't. |
| 09:58.46 | Hurrian | Nemein will probably shut them down once the bills are left unpaid too long. |
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| 10:36.31 | kerio | yo vi__, why aren't you in #maemo-ssu |
| 10:37.13 | vi__ | that is a thing? |
| 10:37.29 | kerio | it's been a thing for a while |
| 10:37.31 | kerio | it's also in the topic |
| 10:37.35 | kerio | and the bluez dude is there |
| 10:38.05 | vi__ | Im in! |
| 10:38.28 | vi__ | who was the guy who made the thumb life picture? |
| 10:39.06 | kerio | vi__: still me |
| 10:39.32 | vi__ | kerio: You made it? |
| 10:39.39 | kerio | yep |
| 10:39.47 | vi__ | can I post it on TMO? |
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| 10:42.14 | kerio | vi__: sure |
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| 10:50.55 | chem|st | [mailinglist] estel is close to saying "hitler" or "nazi"... he is up for genocide comparisons yet, can someone sane please ask him to grow up and take punishment like a man and not like a 5 year old sissy "with sugar on top" |
| 10:53.13 | pcfe | nobody invoked Goodwin? |
| 10:53.28 | chem|st | pcfe: not yet... would you mind? |
| 10:53.57 | chem|st | pcfe: put Goodwin's Law up his... |
| 10:54.12 | pcfe | chem|st: I have not been active on the list lately, errm actually for a very loong time |
| 10:54.52 | pcfe | there wasw a nice picture of an imaginary playing card on uncyclopedia, but last time I looked I failed to find it again |
| 10:55.09 | chem|st | fun fact: JCDenton contacted Estel with facts JCDenton doesn't know if JCDenton is not the verysame person as Estel |
| 10:55.45 | Hurrian | chem|st, wasn't one of Estel's emails to mailinglist footered with "JCDenton"? |
| 10:55.58 | Hurrian | anyways, the drama on the ML sure is ugly. |
| 10:56.21 | chem|st | JCDenton never contacted any admin |
| 10:56.29 | vi__ | chem|st: I wanted to chastise him for suggesting that unimaginable human suffering is in anyway like his situation. |
| 10:56.42 | vi__ | However I am reminded of the 2nd rule of the net. |
| 10:56.46 | pcfe | have people forgotten the fine art of doing *plonk* |
| 10:56.48 | vi__ | Do not feed the trolls. |
| 10:56.52 | pcfe | vi__++ |
| 10:56.57 | chem|st | ++ |
| 10:57.14 | vi__ | chem|st: Is there no one who is able to ban him from the list? |
| 10:57.17 | chem|st | I was at the Dwarf throw of Helms Clam |
| 10:57.17 | pcfe | put the trolls in killfiles. Sooner or later they get bored of shouting in the desert |
| 10:57.18 | vi__ | This has gone far enough. |
| 10:57.59 | chem|st | pcfe: he is no troll he is a real dwarf |
| 10:58.29 | vi__ | chem|st: Who moderates the mailing list? |
| 10:58.34 | chem|st | thinking about it no he is a troll |
| 10:58.51 | chem|st | dwarfs are trolls with balls... even the female ones |
| 10:58.57 | chem|st | vi__: I have no idea |
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| 11:57.19 | kerio | is there a way to pump up the bluetooth tx? |
| 11:58.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: sorry, no info about n95 boot |
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| 12:30.14 | vi__ | Is there a way to read conversations from the commandline? |
| 12:31.48 | vi__ | Interacting with the conversations db over the commandline would RULE. |
| 12:31.49 | flux | I think it's maybe possible with sqlite (or sqlite3, whatever it was) |
| 12:32.07 | kolp | vi__: Yes, by using sqlite3 |
| 12:32.19 | flux | is the database schema documented somewhere? |
| 12:33.33 | kolp | $ sqlite3 .rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db |
| 12:33.37 | kolp | sqlite> .schema |
| 12:33.39 | kolp | ;) |
| 12:35.05 | flux | it would serve as a better documentation if sqlite knew about foreign key constraints or NOT NULL. |
| 12:35.19 | flux | ..and comments |
| 12:35.45 | flux | of course, it's still better than nothing :) |
| 12:36.10 | kerio | if you want a RDBMS, use a RDBMS |
| 12:36.49 | flux | sadly I don't have the choice for n900 :) |
| 12:37.15 | flux | (although I think sqlite is a great match for that use) |
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| 12:44.27 | MrPingu_TUD | vi_: Fixed my issues, it was some missing library :P |
| 12:44.58 | MrPingu_TUD | aaaand, your xbindkeys depens on guile-1.8-libs, mine not |
| 12:45.16 | MrPingu_TUD | Anyway got a working xbindkeys which doesn't show up in powertop :) |
| 12:46.34 | vi__ | MrPingu_TUD: Really? |
| 12:46.45 | vi__ | MrPingu_TUD: Did you use my one in the end? |
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| 12:47.15 | MrPingu_TUD | vi__: haha mine is just buggy, found somewhere on TMO |
| 12:47.56 | vi__ | MrPingu_TUD: which one is bigger? |
| 12:48.03 | vi__ | Perhaps yours is statically linked. |
| 12:48.37 | kerio | yo vi__, how do i kill off modest for good? |
| 12:48.49 | vi__ | kerio: heh, with a silver bullet. |
| 12:49.07 | vi__ | kerio: You have to edit the modest.desktop and comment out the lines about it pre loading. |
| 12:49.23 | vi__ | You then have to uninstall the activesync daemon. |
| 12:49.56 | vi__ | that MOSTLY keeps it dead. |
| 12:50.09 | MrPingu_TUD | I don't care :P It's working now |
| 12:50.23 | vi__ | You also have to kill the process after you close the gui. |
| 12:50.33 | vi__ | modest JUST_WONT_DIE. |
| 12:50.53 | kerio | i wish i could uninstall it without fucking up the metapackage |
| 12:50.58 | vi__ | You could of course jsut uninstall modest. |
| 12:51.22 | vi__ | It has some wierd dependencies? |
| 12:51.29 | kerio | oh no, even worse |
| 12:51.36 | kerio | nokiamessaging depends on modest |
| 12:51.40 | vi__ | oh boy, my aluminum n900 cases just arrived! |
| 12:52.15 | kerio | :O |
| 12:52.16 | kerio | photo |
| 12:52.18 | kerio | nao |
| 12:52.21 | Skry | !! |
| 12:52.26 | MrPingu_TUD | Mine second N900 doesn't arrive at all, or isn't send at all =/ |
| 12:53.07 | vi__ | kerio: I made a post on TMO, the company is practically giving them away as they are old, end of line stock. |
| 12:53.35 | vi__ | So I bought 2! |
| 12:53.47 | kerio | yay |
| 12:53.51 | kerio | as i said, photo pls |
| 12:54.00 | kerio | also, what do i have to uninstall exactly? |
| 12:54.04 | kerio | what's activesync? |
| 12:54.23 | vi__ | some gay syncing thing. |
| 12:54.27 | vi__ | I dunno. |
| 12:54.31 | vi__ | ~activsync |
| 12:54.36 | vi__ | ~wiki activsync |
| 12:55.06 | vi__ | vi__: perhaps that is why my device no longer talks to nokia suite? |
| 12:55.14 | kerio | probably |
| 12:55.22 | vi__ | Although I reinstalled it. |
| 12:55.37 | vi__ | AS spams dbus with calls for modest. |
| 12:56.00 | vi__ | Thus AS keeps resseurecting modest even after you kill it. |
| 12:56.12 | vi__ | So you have 2 choices: |
| 12:56.23 | vi__ | 1. remove the dbus handler |
| 12:56.28 | vi__ | 2. Remove AS |
| 12:57.43 | vi__ | kerio: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419BLGL9jYL._SL500_AA300_.jpg |
| 12:58.22 | kerio | vi__: eeeeeh |
| 12:58.46 | vi__ | full on warhammer 40k battle armour. |
| 12:59.18 | vi__ | I bought 2. |
| 12:59.25 | kerio | the otterbox is still better >:C |
| 12:59.30 | vi__ | They were like $17 each. |
| 12:59.44 | jon_y | looks tough |
| 13:00.02 | vi__ | kerio: probably, however N900 stuff is now EOL so you had better get it now! |
| 13:00.02 | jon_y | does it come with a screen protector? |
| 13:00.07 | vi__ | jon_y: No |
| 13:00.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: aluminium N900 case? Dude, will turn your internate tablet phone into a gameboy |
| 13:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | internet* |
| 13:00.21 | kerio | hahaha |
| 13:00.22 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: IDGAF. |
| 13:00.37 | vi__ | I REGRET NOTHING. |
| 13:00.56 | jon_y | gameboy == toughbox |
| 13:01.17 | jon_y | next to the original nokia phones |
| 13:01.42 | jon_y | 2xxx and 3xxx series phones |
| 13:01.52 | vi__ | It comes with a totally brutal belt clip. |
| 13:02.08 | jon_y | where do I buy it? |
| 13:02.16 | vi__ | I was hoping it might be possible to cut the hinge and use it like a slider case like the otterbox. |
| 13:02.34 | vi__ | jon_y: From the boxwave website. They only had 11 left after I bought 2. |
| 13:02.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really wonder which silly rationale justifies a case that renders *all* radio stuff non-working |
| 13:03.00 | jon_y | take it out to make a call? :) |
| 13:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not a case but a holster then |
| 13:03.34 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: The belt clip is detachable. |
| 13:03.46 | kerio | vi__: i just moved modest.desktop and it appears to not be running anymore |
| 13:03.46 | kerio | cool |
| 13:03.58 | vi__ | kerio: o0 |
| 13:04.07 | vi__ | dont get your hopes up. |
| 13:04.09 | kerio | k |
| 13:04.18 | kerio | i even rebooted though, and it's not restarting |
| 13:04.20 | vi__ | zombie modest will not die so easily. |
| 13:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, since autostarting modest is vie .desktop and the well known entries there |
| 13:04.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | via* |
| 13:06.04 | kerio | ok, opening the MfE settings panel brought it up again |
| 13:06.07 | kerio | but killing it left it dead |
| 13:06.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | zombie modest is the already started modest that gets restarted via alarmd, I'd guess |
| 13:06.21 | vi__ | kerio: Just you wait. |
| 13:06.32 | vi__ | modest is a cunning foe. |
| 13:06.38 | kerio | haha |
| 13:06.46 | jon_y | its like that jason movie |
| 13:06.53 | jon_y | it won't die |
| 13:07.04 | jon_y | prepare for next episode :) |
| 13:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | no autostart of modest during boot -> no alarmd event to restart it |
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| 13:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | my uneducated guess ^^^ |
| 13:07.40 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Messages addressed to modest over dbus cause it to awaken. |
| 13:07.50 | vi__ | like moustakrakish the lake troll. |
| 13:07.56 | kerio | vi__: where's the dbus thing stored? |
| 13:08.04 | vi__ | kerio: NFC. |
| 13:08.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | alarmd |
| 13:08.14 | kerio | you're useless! :( |
| 13:09.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | or, of course, hildon desktop as long as modest has a autostart .desktop |
| 13:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | HD will restart it then, no way to kill it |
| 13:11.06 | jon_y | move the executable itself? |
| 13:11.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm rather sure no other process but HD and modest itself care about restarting modest |
| 13:11.08 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: I have researched killing modest quite hard. |
| 13:11.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: reread my posts above |
| 13:12.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you got a alarmd entry (up to some 30, 60? min into the future) that got created by meodest and will restart modest when alarm goes off, you won't see modest staying dead |
| 13:13.27 | jon_y | have you tried moving modest away? |
| 13:13.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: that's cheating |
| 13:13.48 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Ha! |
| 13:13.50 | jon_y | :) |
| 13:13.52 | kerio | jon_y: that would cause all sorts of problems when things try to start it |
| 13:14.11 | vi__ | kerio: I dunno, it is how I finally got rid of bing desktop on my work computer. |
| 13:15.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd happily try to just remove the x-autostart line in modest.desktop, then give it two boots and 3h at least to go and die |
| 13:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even clear the alarmd queue |
| 13:17.09 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's much easier for me |
| 13:17.12 | kerio | i don't use modest :) |
| 13:17.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course I could be completely wrong and modest is using a totally different method not related to alarmd, to do the scheduled polls |
| 13:18.51 | vi__ | After removing all the auto starting the only way I could keep modest down MOST of the time was to remove the activesync daemon. |
| 13:19.10 | vi__ | I still wanted it to be the mail:// handler. |
| 13:19.26 | vi__ | kerio: Why are you so desperate to kill modest anyway? |
| 13:19.34 | kerio | idk, i felt like it |
| 13:19.40 | vi__ | works for me. |
| 13:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, fsckng activesync, right! |
| 13:20.05 | jon_y | an even more awesome method is to hook modest calls |
| 13:20.17 | jon_y | to stop it from calling alarmd |
| 13:20.22 | jon_y | or viceversa |
| 13:21.10 | jon_y | .so inject? |
| 13:21.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: you're absolutely right |
| 13:21.18 | vi__ | I have mused to myself that a person could hijack the startup process of the n900, when it starts the blackbox windows manager (for lock code and stuff) you could start a PSX emulator or someother heavy thing that needs all your ram and CPU. |
| 13:21.47 | vi__ | infobot: vi__ is 13:21 < DocScrutinizer05> vi__: you're absolutely right |
| 13:21.47 | infobot | okay, vi__ |
| 13:22.12 | Skry | :D |
| 13:22.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | now already lock it as well! |
| 13:22.50 | vi__ | ~lock vi__ |
| 13:22.50 | infobot | locking factoid vi__, vi__ |
| 13:22.52 | MrPingu_TUD | vi_: that was possible on symbian, boot without everything but taskmanager, gaves you a whopping 100mb on n82 :P |
| 13:22.55 | vi__ | BOOYAH! |
| 13:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise e*_ comes and messes it up |
| 13:23.19 | vi__ | I thought he was mega b&. |
| 13:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | he already did evade ban via other nick, and by talking to infobot in query |
| 13:24.15 | vi__ | If a user needs all their ram they could just kill browserd + modest to play gamez |
| 13:24.25 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: I think he is mentally ill. |
| 13:24.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure he is, proof on ML |
| 13:25.23 | jon_y | b& who? |
| 13:25.28 | *** join/#maemo Macor (macer@lasziv.reprehensible.net) |
| 13:25.48 | kerio | vi__: you copied my factoid! :( |
| 13:25.51 | vi__ | jon_y: He who shall not be nameth. |
| 13:25.57 | vi__ | ~kerio |
| 13:25.57 | infobot | i heard kerio is <DocScrutinizer> [...] kerio is correct [...] |
| 13:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | when your GF gives you a 'kiss my ass, bye!', sexual deprivation can du that to you. Not saying it applies to our fav troll |
| 13:26.04 | vi__ | ~vi__ |
| 13:26.04 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, vi__ is 13:21 < DocScrutinizer05> vi__: you're absolutely right |
| 13:26.19 | vi__ | I feel today I have ascended to manhood. |
| 13:26.29 | MrPingu_TUD | ~MrPingu |
| 13:26.37 | MrPingu_TUD | I don't exist :D |
| 13:26.52 | vi__ | MrPingu_TUD: Your time will come. |
| 13:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | do* |
| 13:27.37 | MrPingu_TUD | No I don't ^^ I can't think |
| 13:28.27 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@192.91.66.186) |
| 13:31.06 | MrPingu_TUD | is going for his lunch |
| 13:31.10 | MrPingu_TUD | bye! |
| 13:31.18 | Skry | o/ |
| 13:32.50 | vi__ | ~jrtools |
| 13:32.50 | infobot | [jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 13:40.00 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@168.150.236.43) |
| 13:40.15 | *** join/#maemo netkat (~tty1@178.32.145.61) |
| 13:42.00 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5765.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:44.49 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Why are sip calls so choppy? |
| 13:45.54 | jon_y | wifi? |
| 13:46.23 | vi__ | jon_y: yes. |
| 13:47.02 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 13:47.13 | vi__ | It is almost unuseable. |
| 13:47.14 | jon_y | maybe wifi has too much jitter |
| 13:47.22 | vi__ | ? |
| 13:47.33 | vi__ | you mean due to powersaving mode? |
| 13:47.50 | *** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.4.11.sysads.com) |
| 13:47.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: usually related to data path (== WiFi) |
| 13:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | my SIP calls usually are absolutely fine |
| 13:48.38 | jon_y | vi__: sip has to be more or less real time |
| 13:48.43 | cjdavies | my N900 doesn't seem to switch to wifi when available :/ |
| 13:48.46 | cjdavies | even though I told it to |
| 13:48.55 | jon_y | random lags and delays cause problems |
| 13:48.56 | cjdavies | I have to manually click the (rememebred) network to join |
| 13:49.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | cjdavies: it only scans every $period minutes |
| 13:49.24 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 13:49.53 | vi__ | Is there a German equivalent of the term 'shit hot'? |
| 13:49.57 | cjdavies | DocScrutinizer05: just noticed that, stuck it down to 5 minutes & see if I notice it changing next time I leave the building & come back |
| 13:49.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | cjdavies: though lately I've seen same problem here, have to carefully watch if it's been a sigulary problem |
| 13:50.23 | vi__ | Could dbus-scripts be used to tweak some settings on the event of a sip call? |
| 13:50.29 | vi__ | Would it be worth it. |
| 13:50.40 | vi__ | I.e. power saving mode off |
| 13:50.53 | cjdavies | also, why did nobody tell me about ctrl+backspace to open the application switcher?! |
| 13:51.00 | cjdavies | makes fullscreen much more usable |
| 13:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: won't work |
| 13:51.15 | vi__ | no? |
| 13:51.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | since when SIP in hgets detected, you don't wanna re-establish WLAN to change PSM |
| 13:51.54 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: you can change PSM on the fly. |
| 13:52.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really afaik |
| 13:52.07 | vi__ | At least you can set sleep to to like 0uS. |
| 13:52.13 | vi__ | perhaps I am mistaken. |
| 13:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | but anyway, AP should switch to "non-PSM" mode as soon as there's a constant data stream |
| 13:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: explicitly opening and forwarding port5060 on your router might help, as well as DISabling any SIP-ALG |
| 13:54.31 | vi__ | What is sip-alg? |
| 13:54.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | SIP-ALG implementations on routers are quite usually terribly broken |
| 13:54.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | application level gateway |
| 13:54.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | a transparent proxy basically |
| 13:55.13 | vi__ | unfortunatley this is at work and I cannot fiddle with the access point. |
| 13:55.25 | vi__ | Actually, I probably can. |
| 13:55.33 | vi__ | Just got to get the IP address :p |
| 13:55.43 | vi__ | It runs dd-wrt afaik. |
| 13:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.voiptuts.com/2011/02/what-is-sip-alg-application-layer.html |
| 13:56.51 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Thank you. |
| 13:58.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-level_gateway |
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| 14:00.54 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 14:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: also modern routers like dd-wrt have a QOS / bandwidth management, which you should check if it maybe could prioritize RTP |
| 14:08.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: $addr-of-ddwrt//Wireless_Advanced-wl0.asp |
| 14:09.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | "voice" there |
| 14:10.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | see http://192.168.4.1/help/HWirelessAdvanced.asp |
| 14:12.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> |
| 14:12.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | WMM Support: Enable support of Wi-Fi Multimedia feature. Configuring QoS options consists of setting parameters on existing queues for different types of wireless traffic. You can configure different minimum and maximum wait times for the transmission of packets in each queue based on the requirements of the media being sent. Queues automatically provide minimum transmission delay for Voice, Video, multimedia, and mission critical |
| 14:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | applications, and rely on best-effort parameters for traditional IP data. |
| 14:12.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:14.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: it's an endless subject, you can tune ~98798 parameters |
| 14:14.34 | kerio | vi__: try BT PAN for your SIP calls :D |
| 14:14.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: wireshark has pretty awesome SIP dissectors, even with statistics for complex stuff like jitter etc |
| 14:15.30 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: That is good to know. |
| 14:15.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sure, if it doesn't work, add another layer of complexity and abstraction |
| 14:15.51 | vi__ | I just wondered what I can do to make the client as good as possible. |
| 14:16.15 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it would probably work, because nothing ever uses PAN |
| 14:16.16 | vi__ | As I cannot change the settings on my work AP or mrs vi_ work AP. |
| 14:16.17 | kerio | ever |
| 14:16.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: for all I know your problem could even be PA-related |
| 14:16.24 | kerio | so it's pretty empty :3 |
| 14:16.41 | vi__ | kerio: Except for all the wifi trying to muscle in on the air space. |
| 14:16.46 | kerio | vi__: does it work fine with mobile data? |
| 14:16.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yep, particularly no AP ever supports PAN |
| 14:16.52 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: What do you mean PA-related? |
| 14:17.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | PolypAudio |
| 14:17.06 | vi__ | kerio: SIP fucking sucks over mobile data. |
| 14:17.14 | kerio | :( |
| 14:17.21 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Is that like a musical squid? |
| 14:17.29 | vi__ | kerio: It is pointless. |
| 14:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's the real name of PulseAudio |
| 14:17.46 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Aaaah, ok. |
| 14:18.03 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: I have pulse audio set to nice -19 |
| 14:18.11 | kerio | ... |
| 14:18.20 | kerio | why? |
| 14:18.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | that might easily be the culprit |
| 14:18.28 | vi__ | kerio: becuz. |
| 14:18.42 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Yeah. I need to do some probing. |
| 14:18.52 | kerio | vi__: you have like a billion n900s |
| 14:18.58 | kerio | try with a just-reflashed one |
| 14:19.02 | vi__ | kerio: No, I only have 4 |
| 14:19.10 | vi__ | I need just 2 more. |
| 14:19.21 | vi__ | THen I can perform the rite. |
| 14:19.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm using SIP since my N810 days, and it mostly been just fine |
| 14:19.44 | kerio | did the n810 have speaker+mic? |
| 14:20.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | right ATM there are like 4 SIP clients running here: N810 2*N900 N950 |
| 14:20.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | all four basically flawless |
| 14:20.25 | vi__ | kerio: n810 is just (n900-gsm)+bigger screen. |
| 14:20.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yep, N810 has speakers and a mic |
| 14:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: it has no earpiece though |
| 14:22.17 | kerio | vi__: and slower cpu |
| 14:22.24 | kerio | and half the ram |
| 14:22.39 | kerio | and no good camera |
| 14:22.48 | vi__ | kerio: Yes, ok. SHITTER hardware. |
| 14:23.14 | vi__ | I wish there was some kind of truely P2P voip. |
| 14:23.27 | kerio | vi__: P2P voip? :s |
| 14:23.51 | ShadowJK | the N810 speakers are great, bit the sound circuitry inside is pants |
| 14:23.53 | vi__ | Just dial up my domain name and connect directly instead of through google servers. |
| 14:24.14 | ShadowJK | You can run sip like that :) |
| 14:24.27 | vi__ | ShadowJK: I do not have my own SIP server! |
| 14:25.05 | ShadowJK | my sip provider that handles my landline phone number will even interact with such setups, they take pride in not being excessively evil corporatists |
| 14:25.19 | vi__ | ShadowJK: Who do you use? |
| 14:25.24 | ShadowJK | interact/interoperate |
| 14:25.38 | ShadowJK | a local provider |
| 14:25.45 | vi__ | I have a sipgate account, but they seem rather poor. |
| 14:26.48 | ShadowJK | they were a single-town telephone company before they started doing internet and tv |
| 14:27.25 | kerio | why are internet and tv so tightly coupled in the US? |
| 14:27.47 | vi__ | kerio: Because they come through the same tube. |
| 14:28.09 | ShadowJK | here I get tv through same optical fibre as my interwebs and sipphone |
| 14:29.28 | ShadowJK | That operator would never ever have built fibre here, so we got together and built our own fibre network, it's an open network so any isp can use it free of charge to offer services to people hooked up to it |
| 14:30.06 | cjdavies | I really wish that you could get Internet separately to landline phone in the UK |
| 14:30.33 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah (~Dibblah@host86-156-12-244.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:30.46 | cjdavies | *very* few places have fibre, some places have cable TV that you can get cable Internet with, but then you have to pay for the TV.... |
| 14:30.48 | vi__ | cjdavies: I agree. |
| 14:31.08 | cjdavies | so we end up paying £11+ per month for a phoneline that we never make phone calls on, simply so we can get DSL pushed down it :/ |
| 14:31.11 | vi__ | cjdavies: virgin offer internet with no TV. |
| 14:31.15 | cjdavies | yeah? |
| 14:31.20 | cjdavies | pity there is no cable in this town |
| 14:31.23 | vi__ | It costs the same though. |
| 14:31.26 | cjdavies | ah, lol |
| 14:31.32 | vi__ | exactly. |
| 14:31.33 | cjdavies | I see what they did thar |
| 14:31.37 | kerio | wtf is cable, anyway? |
| 14:31.45 | vi__ | cjdavies: They gave you a choice, what more do you want? |
| 14:31.47 | kerio | like, what's the actual, physical cable? |
| 14:31.53 | cjdavies | coax of some sort |
| 14:31.59 | vi__ | kerio: No dude, it is liek a hose for data. |
| 14:32.01 | cjdavies | vi__: I guess, you can at least avoid cold calls |
| 14:32.27 | vi__ | cjdavies: I do that by not plugging in a phone. |
| 14:32.39 | cjdavies | there is also that option :) |
| 14:32.42 | kerio | here in italy we have a choice of various ISPs, but they all offer DSL, pretty much |
| 14:33.03 | kerio | there are a couple of fibre offers, but only if you're really lucky |
| 14:33.26 | vi__ | kerio: Did you get your copy of sygic yet? |
| 14:33.31 | kerio | no |
| 14:33.44 | vi__ | I remembered you need to find the torrent with 'galedo' in the title. |
| 14:33.49 | vi__ | It has the newest maps. |
| 14:33.56 | vi__ | mid 2010 |
| 14:34.01 | vi__ | teleatlas. |
| 14:34.11 | kerio | the newest maps are from mid 2010? :s |
| 14:34.29 | vi__ | yup |
| 14:34.35 | vi__ | So much for updates for life. |
| 14:34.41 | kerio | why should i bother then? |
| 14:34.42 | vi__ | FUCK YOU SO HARD SYGIC. |
| 14:35.02 | vi__ | kerio: Because it is the best sat-nav program on the n900. |
| 14:35.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: there's no such thing like a SIP server, basically |
| 14:35.15 | kerio | if i wanted old maps i could just use nokia maps |
| 14:35.41 | vi__ | kerio: Nokia maps is updated, it is just the interface is shit and it requires a data connection. sygic does not. |
| 14:36.42 | kerio | nokia maps is also not a satnav |
| 14:36.58 | vi__ | semantics. |
| 14:37.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: you usually have a SIP registrar that does the INVITE bouncing, then in the end the RTP connection is quite usually p2p |
| 14:38.10 | RST38h | yawns |
| 14:38.31 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: ok |
| 14:39.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: I send an INVITE-"vi__" to sipgate. sipgate forwards that INVITE to your IP:5060. Your SIP client answers with the port you expect RTP and sipgate bounces that answer to me. Then my client sets up a direct RTP to your IP:port as of your INVITE-response |
| 14:40.04 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: How do they traverse firewalls? |
| 14:40.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: there's a thing called direct-IP-2_IP SIP that doesn't use sipgate registrar but directly sends the INVITE to your publicly available domain/IP |
| 14:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: STUN |
| 14:41.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the most annoying detail in whole SIP |
| 14:41.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | your firewall is supposed to have open port for my RTP packets to travel to your N900 |
| 14:42.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | in some rare cases, providers offer to relay RTP data via some proxy they provide, so your firewall/NAT wouldn't see inbound from me but rather from sipgate |
| 14:43.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | the type of NAT that needs such stuff is called "symmetric NAT" |
| 14:44.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | see "BEHAVE-UDP" RFC |
| 14:46.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4787.txt |
| 14:47.39 | *** join/#maemo mad_dev (~Dev-el@37.16.137.19) |
| 14:47.47 | *** join/#maemo kiddy56842 (~mirc631@178.219.251.166) |
| 14:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: also "recently" some concept called ICE iirc replaced/augmented STUN |
| 14:49.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: then there's also hosted NAT support, some host of measures the provider can do to facilitate NAT-traversal. I think RTP-relaying is one of those measures |
| 14:49.46 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@hfuopen197.hfu-open.fu.hs-furtwangen.de) |
| 14:50.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never looked closely into the latter |
| 14:52.43 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~chatzilla@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 15:03.02 | *** join/#maemo mad_dev (~Dev-el@37.16.137.19) |
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| 15:07.01 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@178.76.208.218) |
| 15:11.50 | ShadowJK | Nokia Maps updated for me when I deleted disk cache |
| 15:12.06 | ShadowJK | noticed it when search result was in middle of nowhere on the map, heh |
| 15:18.10 | vi__ | ShadowJK: It is easiest to just connect to nokia suite and update map there. |
| 15:18.26 | vi__ | It does it in 1 monolithic download. |
| 15:18.37 | vi__ | It is a shame the interface is so utterly shit. |
| 15:18.56 | vi__ | And they neglected to implement the routing algorithm. |
| 15:19.13 | vi__ | All the data is there, it is just not used. |
| 15:19.23 | kerio | ? |
| 15:19.28 | kerio | i thought it was just tiles |
| 15:19.58 | vi__ | kerio: It is the same sized download for symbian as it is for maemo. |
| 15:20.04 | vi__ | Symbian has offline routing. |
| 15:20.21 | vi__ | Ergo maemo has offline routing data but does not use it. |
| 15:20.30 | kerio | can't we run android's tomtom inside apkenv? |
| 15:20.53 | vi__ | kerio: Only if it is using sdl and some native shit or something. |
| 15:21.02 | vi__ | In short, probably not. |
| 15:23.30 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@243.red-217-125-20.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
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| 15:28.35 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.170.67) |
| 15:30.20 | ShadowJK | isn't there a thread on tmo with mod for voice guided nokia maps? |
| 15:35.15 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.170.67) |
| 15:36.19 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 15:36.22 | merlin1991 | ShadowJK: afaik there is a thread for voice guided mappero maps |
| 15:37.36 | vi__ | ShadowJK: I do not want voice guided maps. |
| 15:37.46 | vi__ | Just a way to search for stuff when I am offline! |
| 15:38.45 | merlin1991 | vi__: that even only semiworks on harm :D |
| 15:39.01 | merlin1991 | and that was extremely ugly english :P |
| 15:40.48 | jonwil | All I want in a N900 GPS app is offline maps support (so I can download a large package of maps from the internet over fast WiFi and use them on the go without having to wait on a slow cellphone data link and without using my limited mobile data quota), an up-to-date set of maps and support for parsing and using Google GTFS public transit information |
| 15:41.20 | jonwil | Mappero is close on the first one (its possible but annoying to do), good on the second one (if you use the right map provider) and useless on the last one |
| 15:42.21 | ShadowJK | I'm sure there was a thread dedicated to modding/unlocking "hidden" features in the nokia maps jabascripts :) |
| 15:43.31 | jonwil | Nokia maps are nowhere near up-to-date |
| 15:43.38 | jonwil | at least not the data I have been able to grab |
| 15:43.39 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@a88-112-254-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:44.19 | jonwil | also I doubt that even the best hackers could add Google GTFS support in any meaningful way without basically pulling the entire Maps application to bits |
| 15:47.21 | vi__ | jonwil: total fail with the sygic maps .pak files. |
| 15:47.45 | jonwil | yeah I suspected that it wasnt going to be possible to use newer maps with older sygic versions |
| 15:47.49 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.170.67) |
| 15:48.18 | vi__ | jonwil: the data I was using was from a version onlly a month or so newer. |
| 15:49.02 | vi__ | There must be somekind of control file in the .pak that determines of the data can be used or not. |
| 15:49.29 | vi__ | jonwil: check out marble with monav. |
| 15:49.39 | vi__ | It will let you: |
| 15:49.51 | vi__ | 1. pre download maps |
| 15:49.56 | vi__ | 2. route offline |
| 15:50.01 | vi__ | 3. search offline. |
| 15:50.18 | vi__ | to be fair it is monav that does the last 2. |
| 15:50.38 | jonwil | if it doesn't have Google GTFS support then its not worth switching from mappero (what I have now) |
| 15:50.56 | kerio | modrana also supports offline routing via monav |
| 15:51.10 | jonwil | The last one is the must-have for mapping but I dont think there is any N900 mapping app that supports GTFS |
| 15:51.33 | chem|st | jonwil: mappero gives me an error for all servers if searching for an address to route to |
| 15:51.44 | jonwil | I dont need routing in my maps app |
| 15:51.57 | ShadowJK | what's gtfs? |
| 15:52.05 | jonwil | Google GTFS public transit information |
| 15:52.11 | ShadowJK | oh |
| 15:52.24 | jonwil | The specs (and plenty of datasets from all sorts of agencies) are public |
| 15:52.58 | ShadowJK | google maps and google drive on my android 4.1 tablet doesn't even have routing/nav for car for me :/ |
| 15:55.31 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.165.225) |
| 15:56.37 | jonwil | What would be the ideal maps app for me:1.Easy ability to pre-download maps for an entire area/city without needing to resort to tricks to figure out exactly which area to pull down 2.Up-to-date maps for Australia (the OpenStreetMap maps I have with mappero are good on that score) 3.Google GTFS support so I can use it to plan bus/train journeys |
| 15:56.46 | jonwil | I dont need routing or turn-by-turn or voice guidance |
| 15:57.37 | jonwil | Mostly for maps I need to look at where I am and identify which direction to walk to get to where I want to get to or to pan to some other location on the map so I can find a specific location on the map when I know the general area to look at |
| 15:58.00 | chem|st | when I am grown up I will buy a T90 and route with Columbus! |
| 15:58.19 | kerio | a T90? |
| 15:58.21 | jonwil | Or I want to be able to watch the map and see where I am as my GPS coordinates change so e.g. I can see when I need to be ready to get off the bus |
| 15:58.25 | kerio | the russian tank? |
| 15:58.49 | chem|st | for sure! |
| 15:58.54 | chem|st | ~wiki t90 |
| 15:58.55 | kerio | why would you need routing with that? |
| 15:59.07 | chem|st | kerio: do you know columbus? |
| 15:59.09 | kerio | turn until your destination is right ahead, and then go straight |
| 15:59.17 | kerio | chem|st: idk, the dude? |
| 15:59.29 | chem|st | kerio: the program |
| 16:00.07 | vi__ | jonwil: Modrana has all that but the gtfs. |
| 16:00.10 | chem|st | Navigation/GPS tool with various export functionality for GPS live data |
| 16:00.15 | vi__ | Put a feature request in on tmo! |
| 16:00.59 | chem|st | and it is really blank navigation... waypoints & compass |
| 16:01.53 | jonwil | Is the "modrana announce" thread the best place to post feature requests? |
| 16:02.50 | vi__ | jonwil: yes. |
| 16:05.17 | kerio | wtf, modrana qml loaded |
| 16:13.39 | jonwil | ok, suggestion posted |
| 16:13.56 | jonwil | described what I need out of Google GTFS support |
| 16:14.07 | *** join/#maemo Timo (~timo@unaffiliated/tiempjuuh) |
| 16:15.06 | jonwil | well what I want anyway :) |
| 16:16.05 | Pali | jonwil, hi |
| 16:16.44 | Pali | you did some icd2 investigation, can you look at bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11915 ? |
| 16:16.47 | povbot | 04Bug 11915: Community SSU script doesn't work if you are behind a proxy |
| 16:17.39 | jonwil | I didn't go anywhere near the proxy stuff |
| 16:18.44 | kerio | Pali: well, afaik there's no generic way to configure a proxy in unix |
| 16:19.11 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealota (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 16:19.16 | kerio | Pali: what does the community ssu enabler need internet connectivity for, anyway? |
| 16:19.19 | Pali | what is needed is 1) find gconf key for proxy used by icd2 and 2) tell apt-get to use proxy |
| 16:19.27 | kerio | it should strictly be a HAM thing |
| 16:20.06 | Pali | cssu installer has script which calling apt-get |
| 16:20.31 | Pali | jonwil, anyway do you have something new about systemui? |
| 16:20.38 | kerio | Pali: iirc it only sets the packages that mp-fremantle-generic-pr depends on as manually installed |
| 16:20.39 | jonwil | nope |
| 16:21.20 | jonwil | I gave up on systemui a while back, it was too complex to figure out more beyond what I already figured out (mostly lock-screen stuff) |
| 16:21.40 | jonwil | my efforts there were mostly so someone could replace the tklock plugin easily |
| 16:29.08 | jonwil | so I cant really help with the other systemui plugins (like the actingdead one) |
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| 16:55.40 | kerio | os x doesn't want to work properly with g_nokia's usb networking :( |
| 16:55.55 | kerio | and i heard that g_ether is slow as fuck |
| 16:56.18 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.170.67) |
| 16:57.39 | Drathir | hi again... |
| 16:57.48 | vi__ | yo. |
| 16:59.48 | vi__ | How come, with wifi power saving on I am using ~245mA of power when streaming music. |
| 17:00.05 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:00.06 | vi__ | But as soon as I enter: |
| 17:00.25 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:00.51 | vi__ | iwconfig wlan0 power period 10m |
| 17:01.01 | vi__ | I am only using 100mA? |
| 17:01.17 | vi__ | Does that mean there is a shit load more power saving to be done with wifi? |
| 17:01.31 | freemangordon | vi__: looks like |
| 17:01.44 | freemangordon | 60% saving is lots of |
| 17:01.46 | vi__ | That is a saving of around 50% |
| 17:01.49 | vi__ | Brutal. |
| 17:02.01 | freemangordon | what that command is supposed to do? |
| 17:02.11 | freemangordon | 10m |
| 17:02.29 | freemangordon | what it is? |
| 17:02.29 | freemangordon | 10 msecs? |
| 17:02.29 | vi__ | it changes the amount of time the wifi interface is in sleep mode. |
| 17:02.34 | vi__ | yes, 10 msecs |
| 17:02.41 | freemangordon | hmm, what is the value before you set it |
| 17:02.44 | freemangordon | ? |
| 17:02.49 | vi__ | ... |
| 17:02.55 | vi__ | I do not know how to check :/ |
| 17:03.04 | vi__ | it is not a thing iwconfig shows normally. |
| 17:03.24 | freemangordon | iwconfig wlan0 power show? |
| 17:03.26 | vi__ | I bet it will give shit latency. |
| 17:03.27 | freemangordon | wild guess |
| 17:03.44 | vi__ | guess harder! |
| 17:03.50 | vi__ | well this is cool. |
| 17:04.06 | vi__ | It has practically double the time I can be listening to streaming music! |
| 17:04.20 | freemangordon | hmm, maybe it is time to RE some more shit :P |
| 17:04.27 | freemangordon | or... |
| 17:04.38 | vi__ | freemangordon: It is possibly something a bit simpler. |
| 17:04.44 | freemangordon | find at least one more to do that |
| 17:05.00 | vi__ | besides, wifi driver is already open! |
| 17:05.02 | freemangordon | vi__: yeah, we need to check what those power profiles mean |
| 17:05.56 | vi__ | well for iwconfig you can set a 'level' of power saving. |
| 17:06.12 | freemangordon | pali, sure, but we have GUI for that |
| 17:06.21 | vi__ | I do not know what those levels are. They set different vcalues for sleep period etc. |
| 17:06.21 | freemangordon | oops, vi__ |
| 17:06.33 | vi__ | ~vi__ |
| 17:06.33 | infobot | i guess vi__ is 13:21 < DocScrutinizer05> vi__: you're absolutely right |
| 17:06.39 | vi__ | thats MR vi__ now. |
| 17:06.59 | freemangordon | sure, but are those hardcoded |
| 17:07.25 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 17:08.45 | vi__ | Yes, I am suggesting perhaps the settings in maemo of (off|on|maximum) are ties to those values in iwconfig. |
| 17:13.41 | vi__ | This off the fucking chain. |
| 17:14.12 | vi__ | I am saving between 100-150mA of power use. |
| 17:15.04 | vi__ | The plot thickens. |
| 17:15.17 | vi__ | I just paused, then unpaused media player. |
| 17:15.36 | vi__ | It went back upto ~250mA |
| 17:15.57 | vi__ | So I entered 'iwconfig wlan0 power period 1' again and now it is back down. |
| 17:16.00 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p57977F8B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:16.42 | vi__ | Could someone else check? |
| 17:16.44 | freemangordon | weird |
| 17:17.04 | vi__ | run the bq27x00 script: |
| 17:17.09 | vi__ | bq27x00 -5 |
| 17:17.25 | vi__ | watch your power use while streaming some music off the net. |
| 17:17.34 | vi__ | report value. |
| 17:17.39 | vi__ | enter: |
| 17:17.48 | vi__ | iwconfig wlan0 power period 1 |
| 17:17.53 | vi__ | and report value. |
| 17:18.15 | vi__ | Either my n900 is foobar or there is a huge chunk of power to be saved here. |
| 17:22.31 | kerio | vi__: i'm downloading the maps around Rome for modrana :D |
| 17:23.10 | vi__ | kerio: Have you read what I wrote above? |
| 17:24.24 | kerio | vi__: yeah, i just don't care |
| 17:24.38 | kerio | i didn't buy a n900 to pirate applications |
| 17:24.43 | vi__ | You do not care about moar battery life? |
| 17:24.50 | kerio | oh, you mean about wifi |
| 17:24.55 | vi__ | wtf are you talking about. |
| 17:25.04 | kerio | ...not really, my n900 can last from the morning to the evening |
| 17:25.05 | vi__ | Also, I paid for sygic maps. |
| 17:25.21 | vi__ | About 1 week before they dropped all support. |
| 17:25.25 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.170.67) |
| 17:25.31 | kerio | vi__: i hope you asked for your money back |
| 17:25.36 | amospalla | guys, about that conversatioon, which is the best free software to replace maemo maps nowadays? |
| 17:25.37 | *** join/#maemo BigBoxD__ (~BigBoxDri@p4FF9AE77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:25.43 | kerio | amospalla: modrana! |
| 17:25.50 | kerio | it's got offline everything! |
| 17:25.51 | amospalla | its awful |
| 17:25.55 | vi__ | kerio: They do not respond to any emails, not even requests for the deb files. |
| 17:26.05 | amospalla | Ill try it, thanks kerio |
| 17:26.06 | kerio | amospalla: it's not |
| 17:26.13 | amospalla | I mean maemo maps |
| 17:26.13 | kerio | oh you mean nokia maps |
| 17:26.15 | kerio | yeah, it's awful |
| 17:26.16 | amospalla | yes |
| 17:26.31 | kerio | vi__: why didn't you chargeback then? |
| 17:26.44 | tadzik | modrana is awesome |
| 17:28.07 | vi__ | kerio: Because that gets you a poor credit rating. |
| 17:29.06 | kerio | vi__: huh? |
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| 17:52.28 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: only need check md5 sum and prepare to flash... |
| 17:52.54 | Drathir | also charging too |
| 17:56.07 | kerio | yay |
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| 18:06.26 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.170.78) |
| 18:06.54 | kerio | what the hell, the modrana downloader doesn't retry to download broken tiles |
| 18:08.44 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.240.253) |
| 18:11.43 | kerio | ShadowJK: question: why is the I/O between eMMC and a computer via ass rage *much* faster than the I/O of the n900 itself? |
| 18:11.55 | kerio | isn't the data still passing through the n900? |
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| 18:30.30 | kerio | vi__: i'm downloading maps with modrana running in a fucking linux mint VM |
| 18:30.37 | kerio | there's gotta be a better way :s |
| 18:30.51 | tadzik | huh |
| 18:31.08 | tadzik | modrana on the device is too slow for you? |
| 18:31.22 | tadzik | (not that it's fast, no ;)) |
| 18:33.10 | *** join/#maemo BigBoxD__ (~BigBoxDri@p4FF9AE77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:35.23 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-174-214.as13285.net) |
| 18:35.47 | kerio | tadzik: it's more that there's a way to "batch" download the routing data but not the maps |
| 18:36.02 | tadzik | well, to some extend you can, I think |
| 18:36.12 | tadzik | there's this "download around location/view/POI/something/route" |
| 18:36.19 | tadzik | I did this today |
| 18:36.30 | kerio | also, do i have to install monav separately? |
| 18:36.55 | tadzik | you don't need monav to have routing in modrana |
| 18:37.05 | kerio | k |
| 18:37.16 | kerio | it has its own monav-server? |
| 18:37.23 | tadzik | it can even do offline routing, but not sure how well that works |
| 18:37.35 | tadzik | by default it looks stuff up on google/osm I think |
| 18:37.57 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@190.143.170.68) |
| 18:38.39 | *** join/#maemo RiD (GhostRider@bl22-36-171.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 18:39.06 | tadzik | I wish modrana qml was more than mostly a mockup |
| 18:39.10 | RiD | Hello there... I'm trying to contact Estel. Anyone knows how? |
| 18:39.29 | tadzik | I think email is the way |
| 18:39.46 | RiD | yes... but i don't have it |
| 18:39.52 | tadzik | check mailing list archives |
| 18:40.15 | kerio | why is everyone looking for estel? |
| 18:40.31 | tadzik | no eye deer |
| 18:40.38 | RiD | Because he's one of the few who i'd trust my still-working N900 to get repaired |
| 18:40.53 | tadzik | maybe everyone considers #maemo to be guilty of his disappearance |
| 18:42.03 | Drathir | anyone maybe remember shortcut for screenshot in n900? |
| 18:42.11 | RiD | ctrl shift p |
| 18:42.48 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.170.77) |
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| 18:43.23 | RiD | ~estel |
| 18:43.29 | RiD | infobot hi |
| 18:43.29 | infobot | niihau, rid |
| 18:43.34 | RiD | infobot estel |
| 18:43.41 | Drathir | RiD: thanks a lot |
| 18:46.57 | mad_dev | RiD thank you for the key combo |
| 18:47.50 | Drathir | mad_dev: hi i prepare to flashing... |
| 18:49.23 | RiD | Drathir & mad_dev nope. One reason I like mobile devices with HW keyboards is exactly this... key combinations! way faster than clicking on a few touchscreen options to copy and paste |
| 18:49.53 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-5-56-244-117.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:50.01 | RiD | and it is far easier to select text with the help of the keyboard too. This one thing i've been struggling in doing quickly and properly on a 10.1 tablet, let alone those 3" smartphones |
| 18:50.15 | mad_dev | Drathir: did you go through with it? |
| 18:51.04 | tadzik | hrm, my scratchbox stopped working out of the blue |
| 18:51.23 | *** join/#maemo user___ (~user@87.114.157.7) |
| 18:51.48 | kerio | tadzik: apparently it's just a matter of downloading the tiles i need and then consolidating them in the sqlite file |
| 18:52.21 | mad_dev | Drathir: Did you reflash or did just download the firmware and reflasher? |
| 18:52.22 | kerio | SpeedEvil: you're somewhat knowledgeable about OSM, right? |
| 18:52.23 | tadzik | sounds about right |
| 18:52.24 | *** join/#maemo BigBoxDr_ (~BigBoxDri@p4FF9AE77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:52.35 | kerio | would it be feasible to have modrana render the tiles in real-time? |
| 18:52.37 | Drathir | RiD: i also preffer hw keyboard thats one of the reason that i chose n900 |
| 18:52.49 | kerio | say, from world.osm :3 |
| 18:53.25 | Drathir | mad_dev: i will reading tutorial again and go... |
| 18:53.31 | Drathir | battery full |
| 18:54.00 | Drathir | mad_dev: starting reflashing |
| 18:54.12 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealota (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 18:54.12 | mad_dev | ok |
| 18:55.21 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: goin to starting flashing |
| 18:55.32 | mad_dev | Drathir: dont forget to hold U |
| 18:56.52 | tadzik | "sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first" -- any idea where tf may those sessions be opened? |
| 18:58.32 | tadzik | ok, there's sb-conf ka, nvm |
| 18:59.09 | kerio | how does g_file_storage work? |
| 18:59.15 | kerio | why is it faster than dd, for instance? |
| 18:59.42 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.170.75) |
| 19:04.17 | tadzik | any idea how to run xterm inside scratchbox? |
| 19:06.47 | tadzik | okay, there's osso-xterm, just apt-cache didn't see it |
| 19:06.51 | tadzik | I must stop asking questions :) |
| 19:12.48 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.170.73) |
| 19:18.16 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@62-47-165-226.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:20.28 | RzR | http://www.xtreamermobile.com/en/index.php do you know this hardware ? |
| 19:20.52 | Drathir | ok md5sum correct |
| 19:21.07 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-174-214.as13285.net) |
| 19:25.01 | Drathir | mad_dev: first if good remember combined next vanilla? |
| 19:25.17 | Drathir | only confirm |
| 19:25.27 | kerio | RzR: no specs anywhere :s |
| 19:25.35 | kerio | Drathir: can you boot right now? |
| 19:25.56 | kerio | and do you want to reflash everything? |
| 19:26.01 | Drathir | kerio: not yet flashed |
| 19:26.11 | kerio | yeah but why do you want to reflash? |
| 19:26.16 | Drathir | confirm wich first |
| 19:26.58 | Drathir | yryes clean install |
| 19:27.23 | Drathir | bued from someone else |
| 19:27.56 | kerio | RzR: they definetely seem to try to keep things as open as possible, which is good |
| 19:28.02 | mad_dev | Drathir: kerio http://www.xtreamermobile.com/en/explore.php for spec |
| 19:28.04 | kerio | Drathir: combined+vanilla+combined |
| 19:28.20 | Drathir | kerio: ok |
| 19:28.28 | mad_dev | Drathir: firmware then emmc |
| 19:28.44 | kerio | RzR: damn, it's a dual sim? |
| 19:29.40 | RzR | looks yes |
| 19:29.53 | mad_dev | rooted |
| 19:30.00 | RzR | off course |
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| 19:31.47 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@200.119.175.11) |
| 19:33.28 | mad_dev | The problem (my point of view) with android is all unwanted jobs in the background. |
| 19:33.36 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@46.227.13.46) |
| 19:34.45 | mad_dev | I remember skype never wanting to die......had to uninstall it. |
| 19:34.52 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 19:36.30 | Drathir | kerio: ok |
| 19:36.41 | Drathir | ok say 3 time succefful |
| 19:36.45 | Drathir | starting |
| 19:37.23 | kerio | mad_dev: apparently that's a "really open" phone |
| 19:37.29 | kerio | and it costs very little |
| 19:39.10 | mad_dev | kerio: I know...very strange |
| 19:39.27 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: would you buy one of those? |
| 19:39.31 | *** join/#maemo bnr32 (~bnr32@77-253-124-221.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 19:40.04 | Drathir | Ufff... works |
| 19:40.38 | kerio | mad_dev: why would one buy an xtreamer aiki when there's the nexus 4? |
| 19:40.41 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: mad_dev kerio so fust flashing O.o faster than BB have... |
| 19:41.00 | kerio | Drathir: make sure it actually flashed |
| 19:41.14 | kerio | but yeah, it should take around a couple of minutes |
| 19:41.25 | Pali | kerio, Hurrian: do you have battery applet syslog when battery applet showing something bad? |
| 19:41.49 | Pali | you reported more times that battery applet not working correctly |
| 19:41.52 | kerio | Pali: worked flawlessly for me since i installed the one with the logging |
| 19:41.54 | kerio | :D |
| 19:42.01 | Pali | funny |
| 19:42.02 | kerio | also no, i reported it once, and it was after i dicked around with modules |
| 19:42.14 | mad_dev | kerio: Actually I am content with n900...no need for android |
| 19:43.21 | mad_dev | s/content/contempt |
| 19:43.28 | Drathir | yes version changed |
| 19:43.39 | Drathir | whats next on list? |
| 19:43.49 | kerio | Drathir: i hope you haven't put a sim in |
| 19:43.58 | *** join/#maemo BigBox___ (~BigBoxDri@ip-77-25-83-164.web.vodafone.de) |
| 19:44.22 | kerio | install openssh, remove cherry, install backupmenu, make a full backup, install cssu, make a full backup |
| 19:46.07 | Drathir | kerio: why sim? |
| 19:46.42 | *** join/#maemo corecode (~2@0x2c.org) |
| 19:46.47 | kerio | Drathir: because otherwise MyNokia will bite your ass and make you send an international SMS |
| 19:47.13 | corecode | o hi |
| 19:47.35 | corecode | so here's the action, and #meego and #harmattan are just idle hangouts |
| 19:48.13 | mad_dev | Drathir: in addition to what kerio said, you should enable Extras repository, install power kernel(no-fear very stable) |
| 19:48.27 | kerio | mad_dev: *after* he's done with basic configuration |
| 19:48.36 | kerio | and extras is already enabled |
| 19:48.45 | kerio | perhaps you mean disable extras and enable extras-devel |
| 19:48.46 | mad_dev | kerio: really??? |
| 19:48.54 | mad_dev | kerio: yeah |
| 19:49.16 | corecode | any idea what is required to port maego/maemo to new hardware that is already supported by linux (e.g. cyanogenmod) |
| 19:49.24 | kerio | corecode: never going to happen |
| 19:49.29 | Drathir | kerio: i dont know about that... onetime sms? |
| 19:49.53 | Drathir | kerio: but i have prepaid... |
| 19:49.58 | corecode | kerio: too much work? |
| 19:50.23 | kerio | Drathir: it's a silly subscription service that everyone hates because it's not really clear how to prevent it from sending stuff |
| 19:50.31 | kerio | Drathir: apart, of course, by uninstalling it |
| 19:50.43 | Drathir | kerio: yes take money for sms but only like locally sms cost.. |
| 19:50.56 | kerio | anyway, it's not really a big deal |
| 19:50.58 | kerio | but it's annoying |
| 19:51.55 | Drathir | kerio: ok that i go to install ssh but with application menager or console? |
| 19:52.11 | kerio | you need to install it from the application manager at the beginning, you don't have root access yet |
| 19:52.24 | corecode | kerio: i mean, if i wanted to do it, what work would be involved? |
| 19:52.55 | kerio | corecode: it's never going to be maemo, too many components are closed-source and they'll only reasonably work on the n900 |
| 19:53.17 | kerio | corecode: if you mean "a linux distro that kinda resembles maemo fremantle and has hildon-desktop", then consider me interested |
| 19:53.18 | tadzik | corecode: Nemo Mobile may interest you' |
| 19:53.35 | corecode | honestly, i like harmattan more than maemo |
| 19:53.36 | tadzik | or Cordia HD, for that matter |
| 19:53.41 | kerio | corecode: i'm not sure an android phone is good for that, though |
| 19:53.44 | kerio | no keyboard |
| 19:53.44 | kerio | :s |
| 19:53.48 | kerio | capacitive touchscreen |
| 19:53.52 | kerio | :s :s :s |
| 19:53.56 | corecode | kerio: actually i'm thinking about tablets |
| 19:54.04 | corecode | i dunno what jolla is up to |
| 19:54.06 | kerio | corecode: yeah, like the n900 |
| 19:54.16 | corecode | kerio: nono, larger |
| 19:54.22 | corecode | 7" or 10" tablets |
| 19:54.28 | corecode | running harmattan-esque OS |
| 19:54.33 | corecode | that would be great |
| 19:54.38 | mad_dev | corecode: check wetab |
| 19:54.39 | corecode | hence me asking |
| 19:54.51 | mad_dev | based on meego OS |
| 19:55.03 | corecode | what components are closed and specific to n900/n9 |
| 19:55.18 | corecode | i just can't see it |
| 19:56.00 | mad_dev | corecode: http://wetab.mobi/en/product/ |
| 19:56.05 | kerio | ~fremantle_closed_packages |
| 19:56.11 | kerio | ~closed_packages |
| 19:56.11 | infobot | closed_packages is, like, https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
| 19:56.29 | tadzik | what package is responsible for the behaviour of a longpress in, for example, file manager? |
| 19:57.35 | corecode | kerio: thanks |
| 19:58.13 | corecode | kerio: but those packages, can't most of them be just used? |
| 19:58.24 | corecode | obviously bt-firmware can't |
| 19:58.32 | corecode | but the calendar? |
| 19:58.54 | kerio | sure, you need the correct libraries though |
| 19:59.10 | kerio | it's a bitch to run binary blobs :) |
| 19:59.28 | corecode | ya |
| 19:59.52 | corecode | but since my n9 can use them... |
| 20:00.01 | kerio | corecode: and i bet that you won't manage to run ICD2 in a sensible way on something that's not nokia hardware |
| 20:00.10 | kerio | and that's a fairly vital part of maemo |
| 20:00.21 | corecode | what's that |
| 20:00.32 | kerio | Internet Connection Daemon |
| 20:00.41 | corecode | ooooh |
| 20:03.13 | kerio | Connectivity? |
| 20:03.19 | kerio | anyway, the thing with the internets |
| 20:03.59 | Drathir | kerio: ok refreshing repos, can i ask what it is cherry? |
| 20:05.05 | kerio | Drathir: it's the package that contains the MyNokia thing |
| 20:05.21 | kerio | once you install openssh you can get a root shell with ssh root@localhost |
| 20:08.55 | Drathir | kerio: backupmenu isnt in application menager need to install from another loaction? |
| 20:09.37 | Drathir | i have only builit in backup |
| 20:10.12 | Drathir | mad_dev: yes also power think to install too |
| 20:12.46 | kerio | Drathir: disable extras (the "maemo.org") repo and enable extras-devel |
| 20:13.08 | tadzik | extras-devel is a superset? |
| 20:13.43 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-174-214.as13285.net) |
| 20:13.57 | kerio | tadzik: for all intents and purposes |
| 20:14.30 | tadzik | sure. So things aren't gonna be missing, and ham will sync repos faster, aye? |
| 20:14.32 | mad_dev | Drathir: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel then backup |
| 20:14.41 | kerio | tadzik: no |
| 20:14.42 | Pali | extras ⊆ extras-testing ⊆ extras-devel |
| 20:14.43 | kerio | much, much slower |
| 20:14.52 | tadzik | oh, I mean compared to having both |
| 20:17.13 | cjdavies | what's the installation package for mpd? |
| 20:17.21 | cjdavies | apt claims that it exists in another package |
| 20:17.28 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@athedsl-357024.home.otenet.gr) |
| 20:17.39 | tadzik | oh, I don't think there's mpd in the repos |
| 20:17.48 | cjdavies | D: |
| 20:17.54 | *** join/#maemo valerius_ (~valerius@85.26.180.145) |
| 20:17.54 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.145) |
| 20:17.56 | cjdavies | how am I expected to play music?! |
| 20:18.27 | tadzik | via the music player, of course |
| 20:18.34 | tadzik | I tried to package mpd, it didn't quite work |
| 20:18.45 | tadzik | mpd and pulseaudio on the n900 didn't quite like each other |
| 20:18.49 | cjdavies | guess I default to mplayer :( |
| 20:19.00 | tadzik | why would you do that |
| 20:19.29 | tadzik | btw, while we're at repos, is there any point in having nokia repos enabled now? Ove, Nokia Applications etc? |
| 20:19.35 | cjdavies | what else would I use? |
| 20:19.53 | tadzik | The Music Player application that comes with maemo |
| 20:19.57 | tadzik | or Open Media Player |
| 20:20.12 | *** join/#maemo phlixi (~phlixi@ppp-93-104-145-137.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:20.29 | tadzik | it's nice for it shuts up when somebody's calling |
| 20:20.47 | cjdavies | hm, suppose |
| 20:21.07 | tadzik | and pauses when you unplug the headphones |
| 20:21.15 | tadzik | (that's omp-only) |
| 20:22.33 | tadzik | and yes, I'm missing mpd too :) |
| 20:22.44 | tadzik | gapless playback, not-being-a-resource-hog... |
| 20:32.42 | kerio | cjdavies: install Open Media Player |
| 20:32.46 | kerio | and uninstall mediaplayer |
| 20:33.14 | kerio | tadzik: ovi is the second thing i disable when i do a fresh install |
| 20:33.21 | tadzik | (the latter) for the sake of more free space? |
| 20:33.22 | kerio | the nokia repos are still useful |
| 20:33.35 | kerio | tadzik: to free up an icon in the menu, too :) |
| 20:33.36 | tadzik | (uninstalling mediaplayer I mean) |
| 20:33.39 | tadzik | hehe |
| 20:33.46 | kerio | also make a copy of the dbus service thing, but make it point to OMP |
| 20:36.32 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 20:40.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: why confuse newbies? |
| 20:40.13 | kerio | cjdavies is not a newbie! |
| 20:40.16 | kerio | he uses linux and stuff |
| 20:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the big benefit when he installs OMP?? |
| 20:40.44 | ZogG_laptop | i use linux and i'm noob :P |
| 20:40.47 | kerio | that he has OMP |
| 20:40.47 | kerio | :) |
| 20:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq! |
| 20:40.54 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: sup |
| 20:41.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: portrait support |
| 20:41.22 | Drathir | kerio: ok my bad typo mistake in repo addres and dont synchronize packages |
| 20:41.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | cjdavies: please don't hop every hoop kerio and others present to you |
| 20:41.34 | kerio | which is actually quite useful |
| 20:41.54 | kerio | cjdavies: remember that hoops are fun |
| 20:42.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | cjdavies: I suggest you start just enjoying your device for a few days, after you got the most essential stuff, like backupmenu and maybe CSSU-S |
| 20:43.05 | *** join/#maemo eijk_ (~eijk@e178201206.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:44.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: I'd prefer to see them give you good advice, like "don't use fapman/fam" and "never do apt-get (dist-)upgrade" and "get rid of skype if you don't absolutely need it" |
| 20:45.16 | *** part/#maemo corecode (~2@0x2c.org) |
| 20:45.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't install speedüpatch/batterypatch! |
| 20:45.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably don't install auto-disconnect |
| 20:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | make sure your AP and N900 play together nicely, using power saving mode |
| 20:46.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | get cpu load applet |
| 20:47.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | - so you always notice when something hogs your CPU |
| 20:47.58 | RST38h | does apt-get upgrade with passion |
| 20:48.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for one found simple brightness applet indispensable |
| 20:48.17 | Drathir | kerio: ok back for second going to use backupmenu... |
| 20:48.23 | RST38h | [as long as you are closely watching what it is trying to install, it is ok] |
| 20:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: needs lots of experience |
| 20:49.20 | RST38h | Well does require some knowledge of what is good/bad for you, yes |
| 20:49.59 | kerio | Drathir: learn to love backupmenu |
| 20:50.06 | kerio | it's *the shit* |
| 20:50.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, BM is probably the most useful app ever invented |
| 20:51.19 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-174-214.as13285.net) |
| 20:51.21 | kerio | cjdavies: always remember that DocScrutinizer05 is a grumpy old man that hates all kinds of fun |
| 20:51.27 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: >:C |
| 20:51.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, one last "good advice": stay away from nitdroid and multiboot |
| 20:52.28 | *** join/#maemo hazchemix (~hazchemix@ip51ccb388.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:52.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 is no android device. If you want an android device, google will help you to find shiny cheap ones |
| 20:53.02 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's that xtreamermobile |
| 20:53.25 | *** join/#maemo hazchemix (~hazchemix@ip51ccb388.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:53.39 | kerio | just like a chinese knockoff phone, down to the double sim support, but with an actual community behind it |
| 20:53.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~maemo-multiboot |
| 20:53.40 | infobot | well, maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED |
| 20:53.43 | kerio | and of course, there's the nexus 4 |
| 20:55.33 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@modemcable021.180-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:55.33 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 20:55.42 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: yes your advices was very good because i proppably use dist upgrade if i dont know about that from you... thanks one time again... |
| 20:57.28 | cjdavies | got burnt by the dist-upgrade thing |
| 20:57.44 | cjdavies | it was a fun learning experience |
| 20:58.46 | kerio | cjdavies: you were an idiot there, though |
| 20:58.59 | kerio | "should i go ahead and remove these 380 packages?" "sure apt, go right ahead" |
| 20:59.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | if friggin wiki would work, I'd actually be tempted to start a (community-)effort to set up a beginners guide to maemo fremantle |
| 20:59.34 | cjdavies | kerio: I'm so used to issuing 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade' that I just did it without thinking |
| 20:59.43 | cjdavies | normally it doesn't completely shag the system ;) |
| 20:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 21:00.06 | cjdavies | I think this channel is the beginners guide ;) |
| 21:00.33 | cjdavies | though I guess not everybody defaults to #<foo> on freenode when they have FLOSS questions like I do... |
| 21:00.52 | kerio | cjdavies: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade works, though |
| 21:01.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | 50% of cases |
| 21:01.45 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what are the 50% that don't work? |
| 21:01.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | the point is, it's not at all supported by maemo and Nokia's braindead MP |
| 21:03.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's basically an incompatible concept |
| 21:06.06 | *** join/#maemo StyXman (~mdione@ant06-1-82-242-111-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:06.06 | *** join/#maemo StyXman (~mdione@grulic/root/StyXman) |
| 21:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves and goes off enjoying his flu and migraine a bit longer |
| 21:07.37 | tadzik | who can I ask questions related to hildon codebase? |
| 21:08.25 | kerio | tadzik: probably in #maemo-ssu ? |
| 21:09.58 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@Jade.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 21:09.58 | Drathir | kerio: DocScrutinizer05 i very like backupmenu a lot of options and fast... |
| 21:10.01 | tadzik | possibly |
| 21:10.10 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 21:10.27 | kerio | Drathir: always make rootfs+optfs backups |
| 21:10.31 | kerio | separate backups aren't really worth it |
| 21:10.41 | user___ | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
| 21:10.48 | tadzik | and store them outside of the device |
| 21:11.09 | tadzik | I need to learn that too ;) |
| 21:17.31 | Drathir | kerio: yes i do i prefer all with one date... |
| 21:18.57 | Drathir | ke next thing ssu |
| 21:20.21 | kerio | Drathir: your choice if you want cssu stable or cssu testing |
| 21:23.04 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@46.227.13.46) |
| 21:26.19 | tadzik | if you want to notice it, go testing :) |
| 21:31.01 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@i59F799AC.versanet.de) |
| 21:31.17 | Drathir | kerio: tadzik yes testing more up to date... |
| 21:31.57 | tadzik | also more bleeding-edge |
| 21:32.08 | tadzik | with all advantages and disadvantages, I guess |
| 21:32.33 | tadzik | I moved to testing because of all those "Shiny new feature X! Only in -testing" |
| 21:34.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually cssu-s is as "up to date" as cssu-t. Just a few packages have not made it to cssu-s yet, since they aren't considered stabe enough |
| 21:34.27 | Drathir | ok cssu installed reboot and backup |
| 21:37.04 | *** join/#maemo StyXman (~mdione@ant06-1-82-242-111-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:37.05 | *** join/#maemo StyXman (~mdione@grulic/root/StyXman) |
| 21:38.49 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@46.227.13.46) |
| 21:40.24 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.119.191.210) |
| 21:43.42 | Drathir | kerio: cssu installed what next? |
| 21:43.48 | tadzik | thumb! |
| 21:43.50 | tadzik | hides |
| 21:43.54 | kerio | Drathir: now explore |
| 21:43.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically cssu-s is meant to make no difference whatsoever regarding user experience, it should be basically indistinguishable from maemo fremantle stock. CSSU-T otoh comes with all the extended functionality *enabled* by default, and optional packages installed instead of omitted |
| 21:44.05 | kerio | start doing things by yourself |
| 21:44.36 | tadzik | set up scratchbox, do stuff. That's fun |
| 21:44.38 | kerio | give yourself a couple of days to learn what you like and what you dislike |
| 21:44.48 | kerio | then change the things you dislike |
| 21:45.05 | *** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingute@86.92.226.97) |
| 21:45.11 | Drathir | translations.ini error |
| 21:45.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | now that's a pretty good advice |
| 21:45.31 | Drathir | restore to default or fix? |
| 21:45.44 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@i59F799AC.versanet.de) |
| 21:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, that's this borked transitions.ini tweaker. Don't use it |
| 21:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: or which app does say this? |
| 21:49.04 | tadzik | CSSU Features |
| 21:49.12 | tadzik | I noticed that too, and I had default transitions |
| 21:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, forget that |
| 21:51.00 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~crashandd@2a01:e35:8a44:eb00:213:2ff:fe39:c4d4) |
| 21:51.01 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 21:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are two transitions.ini "editors", one in powerbutton-menu, the other in system-menu |
| 21:53.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | one conmplains and suggests to "fix" transitions.ini - that's nonsense and you shouldn't use that program |
| 21:53.15 | kerio | actually, the one that installs itself in the powerbutton menu also adds itself to settings and the application menu |
| 21:53.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the other one works semi-decent |
| 21:53.51 | kerio | Drathir: on TMO there's a premade transitions.ini with really smooth animations |
| 21:54.25 | MrPingu | kerio: which one do you mean of the 1000 transitions.ini posted on TMO? |
| 21:54.36 | kerio | MrPingu: the one that says "smooth" |
| 21:54.59 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: ok cssu feautures but to fast opened... |
| 21:55.08 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@46.227.13.46) |
| 21:57.03 | MrPingu | That means: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=78591 or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80409 or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83000 |
| 21:57.29 | tadzik | the "fastest" are quite nice |
| 21:57.35 | tadzik | and are actually fast, I didn't expect that :) |
| 21:57.55 | kerio | MrPingu: the most recent one |
| 21:58.05 | kerio | actually maybe not |
| 21:58.10 | kerio | the "fastest" one |
| 21:58.31 | tadzik | the "fastest" just trade eye-candy for responsiveness |
| 22:00.51 | MrPingu | I just halved al values manually + no blur, smooth as butter |
| 22:01.03 | MrPingu | rotation over z-axis |
| 22:03.26 | ShadowJK | kerio; heh, with the same settings on pc and on n900 I get as slow (or fast) speeds either way. |
| 22:03.59 | RiD | lol. I talked to the wrong estel in freenode :( |
| 22:04.05 | RiD | what was his nickname on freenode? |
| 22:04.11 | MrPingu | estel_ |
| 22:04.21 | RiD | always with a "_" ? |
| 22:04.27 | MrPingu | Yes |
| 22:04.42 | RiD | ok. So i guess he never registered in freenode. |
| 22:04.46 | RiD | I talked with the wrong estel :( |
| 22:05.23 | ShadowJK | kerio; though when accessing stuff locally on N900 you might also trigger other traffic, which makes it a bit slower. For huge data trransfers on n900 I usually drop swappiness a bit first. It hurts interactivity/responsiveness but improves throughput when the emmc can do just ne thing without getting distracted |
| 22:06.58 | ShadowJK | But in general, when I run same kernel version on PC as on N900, and have same settings, I get same speeds either way |
| 22:07.07 | ShadowJK | In fact at first I got smaller speeds with PC-N900 because I had tweaked N900 for flash storage and PC was left on defaults optimized for harddrives |
| 22:12.06 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@46.227.13.46) |
| 22:12.12 | cjdavies | did somebody earlier say that 'apt-get upgrade' is fine? |
| 22:12.31 | cjdavies | but not 'apt-get dist-upgrade' (which I learned the hard way) |
| 22:13.05 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@46.59.217.235) |
| 22:14.24 | tadzik | I once mentioned apt-get here and got shouted at ;) |
| 22:15.47 | cjdavies | the phone essentially runs debian as far as I can tell & the app manager is just a GUI to apt |
| 22:15.53 | RiD | apt-get |
| 22:15.54 | RiD | shout |
| 22:16.16 | cjdavies | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPT |
| 22:16.20 | cjdavies | that loud enough? |
| 22:16.37 | RiD | ay pee tee getch. |
| 22:16.38 | user___ | apt-get upgrape is ok if you have sharp eyes. |
| 22:16.51 | RiD | grape |
| 22:17.03 | RiD | i like grape, vi... vi something |
| 22:17.16 | vi___ | but dont do it if you have devel enabled. |
| 22:17.23 | cjdavies | ah |
| 22:17.35 | cjdavies | I should probably read the wiki on devel more thoroughly |
| 22:17.39 | vi___ | there is some shitty packages in there. |
| 22:17.53 | vi___ | cjdavies: nah, thats just to scare teh noobz. |
| 22:18.35 | cjdavies | wait, so apt-get upgrade is okay with devel enabled as long as I actually check what it is upgrading before blindly hitting [Y] |
| 22:18.48 | vi___ | correct! |
| 22:19.04 | vi___ | upgrading battle of wesnoth to devel=cool |
| 22:19.09 | tadzik | \o/ |
| 22:19.15 | tadzik | if only n900 could handle it :P |
| 22:19.17 | RiD | whenever it asks you to upgrade water to beer, accept |
| 22:19.20 | cjdavies | I suppose that's no different to any other system, as you should always check what's going to happen first... |
| 22:19.26 | vi___ | upgrading broken libc in devel=uncool :( |
| 22:19.27 | cjdavies | RiD: how about beer to vodka? |
| 22:19.41 | RiD | water to wine. Jesus mode |
| 22:19.55 | cjdavies | will hopefully get a stylus in the mail tomorrow, which if anything will prevent fluff getting into the hole |
| 22:20.13 | RiD | lol |
| 22:20.17 | tadzik | tehehehe |
| 22:20.21 | RiD | you'll get a stylus that does NOT match the n900 |
| 22:20.31 | cjdavies | it claims to be for a N900 |
| 22:20.34 | cjdavies | with any luck |
| 22:20.36 | RiD | claims |
| 22:20.38 | RiD | ;) |
| 22:20.45 | cjdavies | I paid a whole £1.69 to get one that was in the UK |
| 22:20.50 | tadzik | which reminds me, I need to polish mine |
| 22:20.53 | cjdavies | as opposed to 99p for one in Hong Kong |
| 22:20.55 | tadzik | I can hear it scratching the screen |
| 22:20.59 | cjdavies | >.< |
| 22:20.59 | RiD | o_o |
| 22:21.24 | RiD | someone has a legit english / international whatever qwerty keyboard for n900? |
| 22:21.29 | RiD | for sell, of course |
| 22:21.50 | tadzik | what do you have instead? |
| 22:21.58 | RiD | why did they have to ruin n900's locally, with terrible Spain+Portuguese layout in 1. I don't need a dedicated key for "ñ". I never use that in my language! |
| 22:22.01 | RiD | goes to a corner and starts crying |
| 22:22.21 | tadzik | heh, I need to open virtual keyboard to write my name ;) |
| 22:22.26 | tadzik | I usually don't bother and asciify it |
| 22:22.42 | RiD | lol |
| 22:22.51 | RiD | hello, my name is #%()bh"&$/, what about yours? |
| 22:22.58 | tadzik | hehe |
| 22:23.16 | tadzik | Sośnierz is probably equally bad for those w/o utf8 |
| 22:23.26 | tadzik | not that they don't deserve it |
| 22:23.29 | RiD | ś |
| 22:26.18 | *** join/#maemo vi___ (~user@87.114.157.7) |
| 22:32.38 | cjdavies | it took me years before I realised that screen actually has an option to force UTF8 |
| 22:32.57 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:33.07 | tadzik | I didn't know. It usually Just Works for me |
| 22:33.36 | cjdavies | it usually just works for me, but every now & then I'll set up a new box wrong & it'll be on some ISO job instead of UTF8 |
| 22:33.46 | cjdavies | doesn't harm aliasing it to 'screen' anyway |
| 22:33.52 | cjdavies | at least, I don't think it does ;) |
| 22:35.23 | RiD | yes |
| 22:36.36 | FIQ | [23:17:35] <cjdavies> I should probably read the wiki on devel more thoroughly |
| 22:36.52 | FIQ | Basically it's like having testing activated in archlinux |
| 22:37.17 | tadzik | hehe |
| 22:37.26 | FIQ | i.e. you don't use it unless you want to help bug test stuff |
| 22:37.47 | FIQ | oh wait.. you didn't run arch |
| 22:38.08 | tadzik | testing in archlinux is a bit like adding more pure alcohol to your vodka |
| 22:38.16 | tadzik | "don't use unless you want to get drunk" |
| 22:38.25 | FIQ | lol :p |
| 22:38.57 | FIQ | cjdavies: sorry, I mixed you up with another guy in here |
| 22:39.41 | FIQ | ...or did I? no idea, i'm tired ._. |
| 22:39.43 | FIQ | logs |
| 22:41.00 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (Ian--@46.11.107.44) |
| 22:41.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: you might be able to find qwerty keymat |
| 22:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's what I did since äöü annoyed me just as much |
| 22:43.55 | FIQ | how did you disable the stupid hold key=fn key thing? |
| 22:44.03 | Drathir | ssu onboard successfully upgraded... ^^ |
| 22:44.27 | FIQ | ~jrtools |
| 22:44.28 | infobot | methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 22:45.07 | RiD | DocScrutinizer05 the thing is i don't want some chinese one where the light does not shine through |
| 22:47.21 | FIQ | there we go |
| 22:48.35 | Drathir | now my favorite mtr ntpd mc htop |
| 22:49.06 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.145) |
| 22:49.08 | *** join/#maemo valerius_ (~valerius@85.26.180.145) |
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| 22:52.24 | *** join/#maemo StyXman_ (~mdione@grulic/root/StyXman) |
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| 22:56.14 | FIQ | so why does dist-upgrade want to remove pretty much everything anyway? |
| 22:56.38 | Drathir | looks like now more smoother than default clean flashed... |
| 22:57.43 | FIQ | also why do Ihave to use HAM for installing cssu... |
| 22:58.17 | RiD | HAMburguer |
| 22:58.19 | RiD | burger* |
| 22:58.36 | tadzik | haha |
| 22:58.48 | tadzik | HAMburger would be slow food |
| 22:59.08 | FIQ | i don't like HAM and it like to annoy me with infinite loading times |
| 22:59.13 | FIQ | *likes |
| 22:59.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: it's the way CSSU insatllation works, take it |
| 23:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, it's a one-time event. and it doesn't need attention |
| 23:01.13 | FIQ | "one-time" |
| 23:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | infinite loading times mainly caused by luser enabled extras-devel |
| 23:01.32 | FIQ | upgrading means a trek to it again :p |
| 23:01.37 | FIQ | but i get your point |
| 23:01.47 | FIQ | and yeah, but it's still long with it disabled |
| 23:01.57 | RiD | perfect time to drink something |
| 23:02.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually with most recent CSSU-T you get an improved HAM, and eventually you'll get a CSSU HAM that's mandatory to handle CSSU optional packages |
| 23:02.31 | RiD | and now your automatic breathing mode is disabled |
| 23:02.45 | FIQ | hmm ok sounds good |
| 23:03.01 | FIQ | RiD: ...... |
| 23:03.31 | RiD | innocent phrase with such power... doesn't make sense in our world |
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| 23:03.45 | Drathir | FIQ: better alternative to HAM ? console? |
| 23:03.54 | FIQ | Drathir: sure, but cssu requires you to use HAM |
| 23:04.04 | FIQ | if you want to install it correctly |
| 23:04.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: there's no better alternative to HAM. You can use apt-get install to install random pkgs |
| 23:04.28 | FIQ | "do a backup of your system" pff, this system is recently backed up |
| 23:05.06 | FIQ | or rather, restored from a backup recently, which technically means recently backed up :p |
| 23:05.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: beware though, some pkgs simply don't install properly via apt-get install |
| 23:06.09 | FIQ | what does HAM do that apt can't? |
| 23:06.17 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: fastapp or sonthing be there when buyed phone anybady know that app? |
| 23:06.21 | FIQ | i.e. *why* don't they install correctly? |
| 23:06.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | faster app manager aka fapman |
| 23:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | deprecated! |
| 23:06.57 | FIQ | also, meh |
| 23:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: for example when they want to pop up a requester on H-D |
| 23:07.17 | vi___ | FIQ: HAM can sgutdown hildon home, like changing run levels. |
| 23:07.19 | FIQ | was going to disable devel from doing some stuff yesterday |
| 23:07.43 | FIQ | that's not easy when HAM hides repo list... hate when it does |
| 23:07.52 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 23:07.58 | FIQ | iirc there was a solution but I forgot all about it |
| 23:08.29 | vi___ | FIQ: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon.list |
| 23:08.33 | FIQ | ty |
| 23:08.42 | FIQ | hmm |
| 23:08.50 | FIQ | how does HAM disable repos? |
| 23:08.58 | FIQ | just placing a # before it? |
| 23:09.14 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (Ian--@46.11.107.44) |
| 23:09.15 | FIQ | want to do it the same way in case stuff break otherwise |
| 23:09.16 | vi___ | It is just like a normal sources.list |
| 23:09.31 | vi___ | FIQ: just # out the lines |
| 23:09.58 | FIQ | yeah i know it is, but wanted to know in case HAM disabled in a special way |
| 23:09.59 | FIQ | vi___: ok |
| 23:10.05 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-174-214.as13285.net) |
| 23:10.35 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: now time to power kernel and yours apps... |
| 23:11.26 | FIQ | for example the "name" field seems non-existent in the file |
| 23:11.35 | FIQ | so it stores stuff in another way too |
| 23:11.47 | Drathir | how about synaptic? |
| 23:12.01 | vi___ | Drathir: even worse. |
| 23:12.22 | Drathir | good to know... |
| 23:12.24 | FIQ | Drathir: there's no synaptic gui, and if there was, it would be even slower |
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| 23:12.33 | FIQ | than HAM |
| 23:12.49 | FIQ | try it under easy-debian and you'll understand what I mean |
| 23:13.25 | vi___ | In my opinion fapman is fine. |
| 23:13.49 | vi___ | just dont use it for system updates. |
| 23:13.50 | FIQ | vi___: iirc it does some strange things and is discouraged in here |
| 23:13.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | fapman is known to fsck up your system, sooner or later |
| 23:14.22 | vi___ | it comes with no warrenty. |
| 23:14.25 | FIQ | isn't fapman simply a "correct" frontend to apt? |
| 23:14.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | fapman is just a graphic frontend to apt-get, unlike HAM which does actually do a few more things |
| 23:14.38 | FIQ | i.e. it shouldn't do worse stuff than apt |
| 23:14.49 | vi___ | FIQ: I use fapman. IDGAF. |
| 23:14.52 | tadzik | autoremove is no worse than apt, yes :) |
| 23:15.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, and autoremove is what fapman does, ebetually |
| 23:15.29 | FIQ | why? |
| 23:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC |
| 23:15.40 | tadzik | good intentions, probably |
| 23:15.53 | vi___ | gtg |
| 23:15.54 | vi___ | gn |
| 23:15.55 | FIQ | should be easy to fix |
| 23:15.57 | vi___ | :q |
| 23:16.09 | tadzik | good vi user |
| 23:16.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq I'd fix fapman when there's apt-get |
| 23:16.32 | FIQ | well there's still people who use fam |
| 23:16.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I either use apt-get for normal stuff, or occasionally I use HAM for 'critical' stuff |
| 23:17.11 | FIQ | why's autoremove bad? i did that occasionally earlier |
| 23:17.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: as mentioned above, it's absolutely deprecated, esp for CSSU |
| 23:17.22 | FIQ | didn't have any problem with it |
| 23:17.44 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: fair enough |
| 23:18.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU maintainers CBA to maintain fapman and fix it to work for CSSU |
| 23:19.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically fapman is a pretty poor idea. If you want to improve on user experience with application manager, fix HAM instead of creating a poorly designed buggy clone |
| 23:20.12 | RiD | i see you hate it |
| 23:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | fapman designed on the premise to leave out stuff that's considered 'useless' from HAM. The consideration seems to be based on a poor understanding of what HAM does |
| 23:21.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: how can't you hate an app named fapman? |
| 23:21.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 23:22.12 | FIQ | this happened before too... |
| 23:22.14 | RiD | i actually think that's what makes me like it |
| 23:23.07 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: Attempted to do step 5 of cssu install, but HAM simply says "Process failed" (translated from swe, might not be exact wording) |
| 23:23.17 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot7 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 23:23.56 | FIQ | and there's no icon |
| 23:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: /join #maemo-ssu |
| 23:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: I gather you used fapman, and/or other non-supported methods to update system |
| 23:27.46 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: not since last reflash |
| 23:27.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | then that's pretty strange |
| 23:28.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | never had that before |
| 23:28.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway ask in righ chan |
| 23:31.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: there are a few packages that will conflict with CSSU(-enabler). You have to ask the CSSU maintainers about how to properly debug stuff, there are actually ways to do cssu installation via shell/apt, and they probably give better feedback about problems encountered |
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| 23:40.34 | Drathir | do restart to load new kernel |
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