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| 02:01.24 | SpeedEvil | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/11/06/0128255/nokia-suspends-its-free-developer-program :-\ |
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| 08:39.11 | narcos | Hm, last time i flashed my n900 I can't remember if I did the VANILLA_PR_EMMC first, or the PR_COMBINED |
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| 09:31.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | do combined, vanilla, combined again. 100% failsafe |
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| 09:31.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | narcos: ^ |
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| 09:32.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you really wanna flash vanilla eMMC |
| 09:32.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | usually not needed |
| 09:33.08 | narcos | DocScrutinizer51: Cool, thanks |
| 09:33.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | np, yw |
| 09:33.28 | narcos | Long time no 'see' :) |
| 09:33.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~flash |
| 09:33.32 | infobot | from memory, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 09:37.59 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: I feel like "used" devices need to get a vanilla-razorshave |
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| 10:05.30 | PSleggs | does nokia suite on windows 7 work for anyone? |
| 10:05.40 | vi_ | ffs |
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| 10:05.42 | vi_ | does nokia suite on windows 7 work for anyone? |
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| 10:58.17 | vi_ | does anyone have any experiance with the n900 replacement housings from fleabay? |
| 10:58.26 | vi_ | http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-Nokia-Housing-For-N900-Front-Panel-Middle-Case-Fascia-Keypad-Back-Cover-/00/s/MTE1OVgxNjAw/$%28KGrHqN,!rUF!d!TRpCDBQSVW%28c5oQ~~60_10.JPG |
| 10:58.30 | vi_ | for example. |
| 10:59.01 | vi_ | The keyboard looks like a better quality replacement than the normal junk you get. |
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| 11:02.42 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 11:05.25 | vi_ | I mean the KB you normally get on ebay for the n900 is utter shit. It feels funny and the characters are printed all wrong. |
| 11:05.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | moinmoin |
| 11:07.14 | SpeedEvil | morning |
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| 12:23.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | in xchat, is there any option to disable or delete that nasty chan-close button (lower left, under chantab bar with my setup)? |
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| 14:33.15 | Lava_Croft | yes, dont use xchat |
| 14:33.16 | Lava_Croft | solved |
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| 14:45.45 | vi_ | misterc on TMO has apparently found a source of n900 otterboxes! |
| 14:45.57 | vi_ | but he will not tell anyone. |
| 14:46.36 | vi_ | He wants people to go 'through' him to get one. |
| 14:46.38 | vi_ | WTF. |
| 14:46.54 | StyXman | otterboxes? |
| 14:47.15 | vi_ | armour for your n900. |
| 14:47.27 | StyXman | hmm |
| 14:47.28 | vi_ | For when your n900 is not big enough |
| 14:47.31 | vi_ | heavy enough |
| 14:47.36 | vi_ | tough enough. |
| 14:47.47 | vi_ | Put it inside a protective armour box. |
| 14:48.09 | StyXman | I guess once you have one you can simply copy the model and 3d-print it |
| 14:48.13 | vi_ | The manufacturer has stopped making them and they are now quite hard to get. |
| 14:48.43 | vi_ | StyXman: you would need a pretty good 3d printer to get all the finer details. |
| 14:50.13 | StyXman | and a pretty good 3d designer, yes, I know |
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| 15:17.44 | Lava_Croft | goddakmnit |
| 15:17.49 | Lava_Croft | those otterboxes look great |
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| 15:20.09 | vi_ | well, you cannot get one now. |
| 15:23.41 | StyXman | yeah, they convert you n900 into a weapon for self-defense |
| 15:24.11 | Lava_Croft | usually pulling out the n900, in these days, works the same as that Monty Python joke |
| 15:24.17 | Lava_Croft | that made all the Germand die from laughter |
| 15:24.25 | Lava_Croft | Germans* |
| 15:24.43 | Lava_Croft | The laughter usually faints once you get the job done which the other person can't |
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| 15:26.21 | chem|st | Lava_Croft: they laugh exactly as long as it takes me to startup remote controls and switch off some TVs... |
| 15:26.59 | Lava_Croft | well, that would keep them laughing in my case |
| 15:27.04 | Lava_Croft | since ive been doing that since pre-y2k |
| 15:27.08 | Lava_Croft | with my Palm IIIxe |
| 15:27.12 | Lava_Croft | but in the case of a stranger, yes |
| 15:27.17 | Lava_Croft | the best thing remains the FM transmitter tho |
| 15:27.20 | chem|st | "why did you do that?" - "cause you remained laughing at my phone!" |
| 15:27.26 | vi_ | de-auth their access point and kick them all off the wifi. |
| 15:27.29 | Lava_Croft | Breaking into people's radio stations is awesome |
| 15:27.29 | vi_ | win. |
| 15:27.34 | Lava_Croft | especially in traffic jams |
| 15:28.01 | vi_ | Lava_Croft: route the phone mic to the fmtx. |
| 15:28.05 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 15:28.09 | chem|st | Lava_Croft: yeah my sister... so cool "you have a very nice radiostation, what channel is that?" - "it is my phone..." |
| 15:28.13 | vi_ | You can talk over the FM radio. |
| 15:28.18 | Lava_Croft | vi_: yup |
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| 15:30.43 | vi_ | I just bought 2 more n900. |
| 15:30.53 | vi_ | I might have to get a 3rd. |
| 15:30.53 | Lava_Croft | i already have two, more than enough |
| 15:31.08 | Lava_Croft | they are mostly being used as overpowered mediaplayer anyway |
| 15:31.16 | vi_ | 1 for me. |
| 15:31.21 | vi_ | 1 for mrs vi_ |
| 15:31.26 | Lava_Croft | mrs has an iphone:) |
| 15:31.29 | vi_ | 1 for developing |
| 15:31.39 | vi_ | 1 mint condition for spare. |
| 15:32.39 | vi_ | phones are so massive these days. |
| 15:32.44 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 15:32.48 | vi_ | we seem to have regressed to the size of a brick. |
| 15:32.52 | Lava_Croft | i dont get why phones have to be the size of a netbook these days |
| 15:32.57 | vi_ | with similar features. |
| 15:33.13 | vi_ | mrs just bought a nexus 7. |
| 15:33.20 | Lava_Croft | the largest button in my wife's ios6.1 Maps ui is "Report a problem" |
| 15:33.22 | vi_ | dont worry, I rolled my eyse too. |
| 15:33.26 | Lava_Croft | or something similair |
| 15:33.30 | Lava_Croft | nexus7 is nice |
| 15:33.31 | Lava_Croft | i have one! |
| 15:33.39 | Lava_Croft | price/quality is outstanding |
| 15:33.57 | Lava_Croft | i can live with the shit OS |
| 15:34.09 | vi_ | is it true it does not support writing to external filesystem when using USB host mode? |
| 15:34.29 | Lava_Croft | probably not, we dont even use it for that |
| 15:34.59 | vi_ | have you root it? |
| 15:35.03 | Lava_Croft | nope |
| 15:35.08 | vi_ | do you need to? |
| 15:35.10 | Lava_Croft | rooting it still makes it shit |
| 15:35.11 | Lava_Croft | no |
| 15:35.19 | Lava_Croft | android cant be fixed |
| 15:35.40 | vi_ | what is the single most important thing a person should do to get the most out of it? |
| 15:36.01 | Lava_Croft | probably the only thing one can do is update to latest jelly bean |
| 15:36.09 | vi_ | And why the hell it does not have an usd slot. |
| 15:36.10 | Lava_Croft | overall the tablet is, for being a tablet, pretty complete |
| 15:36.27 | Lava_Croft | because its a tablet which is made with cost in mind |
| 15:36.55 | vi_ | made with price level stratification in mind. |
| 15:37.00 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 15:37.08 | Lava_Croft | and looking at the price, they did a really good job |
| 15:37.53 | *** join/#maemo dafox (~dafox@ip51cc571d.speed.planet.nl) |
| 15:38.37 | Lava_Croft | the only thing i would really do is install a different launcher |
| 15:38.49 | Lava_Croft | so you get a bit more customization options for it |
| 15:39.45 | *** part/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~MetalGear@175.142.127.123) |
| 15:40.32 | Lava_Croft | oh yeah, and make sure you have two devices with Minecraft Pocket Edition |
| 15:40.38 | Lava_Croft | its great in multiplayer over wifi |
| 15:42.39 | vi_ | minecraft, I have no patience for this. |
| 15:43.09 | Lava_Croft | I was about to say, hanging around Maemo community and having problems with patience |
| 15:43.16 | Lava_Croft | that must make life really tough on you:) |
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| 16:23.31 | vi_ | Lava_Croft: You know android right? |
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| 16:23.52 | vi_ | riddle me some questions if you will. |
| 16:24.18 | vi_ | Can you interact with an android device in a meaningful way thorugh sshh? |
| 16:27.16 | Lava_Croft | i know very little about android, because i think its a shit os |
| 16:27.22 | Lava_Croft | i try to use it as little as possible |
| 16:27.26 | Lava_Croft | dinnertime now |
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| 16:30.45 | kerio | vi_: i wouldn't think so |
| 16:30.48 | kerio | it's not really meant to be possible |
| 16:31.06 | kerio | i mean, i don't think it's going to be much more useful than sshing into an iphone |
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| 16:40.57 | vi_ | kerio: I do not know about that either. |
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| 17:52.08 | vi__ | it would seem the term refurbished has been redefined. |
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| 17:52.53 | vi__ | from: good as new, rebuilt with new parts as needed. |
| 17:53.13 | vi__ | to: totally shagged by a cack handed spacktard. |
| 17:56.06 | vi__ | 'nah bro, that will totally buff out!' |
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| 18:43.12 | Sysaxed | <vi_> Can you interact with an android device in a meaningful way thorugh sshh? |
| 18:43.28 | Sysaxed | you can ssh to it, but what are going to do with once you are in? |
| 18:43.40 | Sysaxed | with it* |
| 18:44.03 | SpeedEvil | android is similar to what 'boot to wine' might be |
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| 18:49.07 | Sysaxed | vi_, you can run an app... what else.. |
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| 18:50.54 | Sysaxed | to get some linuxness you can install busy box |
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| 19:09.29 | Sysaxed | what is the future of maemo? Is there any future at all? It's the best device currently but we're still unable to get through closed source parts |
| 19:13.33 | SpeedEvil | none |
| 19:14.05 | SpeedEvil | the hardware may continue on in some way for a couple more years. |
| 19:14.15 | SpeedEvil | but... |
| 19:14.23 | Cor-Ai | no buts! |
| 19:14.53 | SpeedEvil | hopefully jollamobile will release hardware of some form |
| 19:15.17 | SpeedEvil | which might in some ways be called a development parallel to maemo |
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| 19:16.11 | Sysaxed | what's the point of a newer hardware? |
| 19:16.31 | Sysaxed | the one n900 has is fine |
| 19:16.48 | SpeedEvil | 256m ram is extremely limiting for the browser |
| 19:17.11 | Sysaxed | no, it's fine |
| 19:18.10 | Sysaxed | I've just restarted my n900 |
| 19:18.17 | Sysaxed | 142 RAM + 15 swap is used |
| 19:18.29 | Sysaxed | holy shit, my desktop pc uses 100 when booted |
| 19:18.36 | Sysaxed | hildon-home - 26 M |
| 19:18.50 | Sysaxed | browserd 26 M |
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| 19:26.42 | vi__ | i assure you, 256 is not enough! |
| 19:27.30 | Sysaxed | vi_, why would you need more? |
| 19:31.36 | *** join/#maemo RiD (~RiD@188.251.160.254) |
| 19:31.41 | RiD | hello there. |
| 19:32.36 | Sysaxed | hi :) |
| 19:33.29 | RiD | how is the N9's price, currently? |
| 19:37.30 | Sysaxed | is n9 realy worth buying? |
| 19:37.35 | Sysaxed | is it even better than n900? |
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| 19:38.11 | RiD | the fact is that i sent my phone to nokia repair a bit over a month ago, with an e-mail where i talk about how the usb can be part of a design flaw, etc etc etc |
| 19:39.19 | RiD | blablab blub lbubl bilililil . They (not surprising) refused to repair it. A bit over 1 month was needed to simply say that. Now, my friend is arriving with the phone... though i'm a bit suspicious it might be all f*__ed up from the Nokia Care not-so-care "journey". Perhaps worse than it was when I sent it. |
| 19:39.56 | RiD | However, while i do not know many details, my friend said they would give the "successor" if i paid them 160... |
| 19:40.48 | Sysaxed | n900? no resistive touchscreen? |
| 19:40.56 | RiD | wha |
| 19:41.06 | RiD | N9 has a resistive touchscreen |
| 19:41.13 | RiD | i mean N900. N9 is capacitive |
| 19:41.25 | Sysaxed | n9* |
| 19:41.26 | Sysaxed | sorry |
| 19:41.35 | Sysaxed | keyboard?? |
| 19:42.19 | RiD | virtual.. anyways. I might buy the N9 (and then sell it again) if they give me my N900 with faulty microUSB |
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| 19:45.22 | Sysaxed | well, no keyboard, no resistive touch screen |
| 19:45.30 | Sysaxed | I'd throw it out of the window |
| 19:45.43 | Sysaxed | but some stupid bitch might like it |
| 19:45.54 | Sysaxed | because it looks like an IPhone |
| 19:45.55 | Sysaxed | haha |
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| 19:47.28 | Sysaxed | The N9 has two microphones and a loudspeaker situated at the bottom of the phone. |
| 19:47.31 | Sysaxed | did I get it right? |
| 19:47.36 | Sysaxed | two mics and ONE speaker?? |
| 19:47.44 | Sysaxed | something is wrong here... |
| 19:47.46 | RiD | don't ask me lol |
| 19:47.54 | RiD | stereo recording? |
| 19:47.57 | RiD | yet mono playback |
| 19:48.09 | Sysaxed | who would care about stereo recording on a phone? :D |
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| 19:49.00 | kerio | more mics -> more quality |
| 19:49.22 | Sysaxed | more speakers -> louder music |
| 19:49.34 | kerio | phone -> crappy speakers |
| 19:49.38 | kerio | so no need for speakers |
| 19:49.53 | Sysaxed | no, that's exactly why you need more speakers |
| 19:49.57 | Sicelo | they said it's for noise cancellation during phone calls, lol |
| 19:50.08 | kerio | Sicelo: it makes sense |
| 19:50.17 | Sysaxed | no sense.. |
| 19:52.12 | Sysaxed | why did they forget n900 to make n9 shit? |
| 19:52.37 | kerio | vi__: how do i 80x24 on a terminal |
| 19:52.54 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: mazal tov on being council :P |
| 19:53.06 | kerio | ZogG_laptop: he's what? |
| 19:53.18 | ZogG_laptop | council memeber :P |
| 19:53.27 | kerio | lolwut |
| 19:53.56 | ZogG_laptop | check maillist |
| 19:54.23 | MrPingu | Haven't check maillist for a long time :o |
| 19:54.29 | MrPingu | I feel bad now |
| 19:54.42 | ZogG_laptop | mentalist, ivgalvez, doc, qwazix and neildk |
| 19:54.51 | ZogG_laptop | just got mail |
| 19:55.21 | RiD | ok guys! |
| 19:55.59 | RiD | nokia said my phone is irrepairable due to having damaged pads on the motherboard... |
| 19:56.20 | kerio | buy a new one |
| 19:56.21 | RiD | now, the pic they have on the paper is unclear because the printer sucks and everything is too bland, lol |
| 19:56.26 | ZogG_laptop | RiD: usb? |
| 19:56.29 | RiD | yes |
| 19:56.46 | ZogG_laptop | RiD: welcome to the club |
| 19:56.49 | RiD | lol |
| 19:56.52 | ZogG_laptop | wait for jolla or bb10 |
| 19:56.53 | RiD | what exactly are pads? |
| 19:56.58 | ZogG_laptop | or buy 3310 |
| 19:57.11 | ZogG_laptop | RiD: the electric contacts |
| 19:57.18 | RiD | so basically its really irrepairable? |
| 19:57.28 | ZogG_laptop | like small metalic parts on motherboard |
| 19:57.35 | kerio | nah, it's *kinda* easy if you know what you're doing with a soldering gun |
| 19:57.41 | ZogG_laptop | depends |
| 19:57.45 | ZogG_laptop | few people solved it |
| 19:57.47 | RiD | so its a bit like hte ones on the usb fix topic or something? |
| 19:57.53 | RiD | Not exactly like that, im afraid? |
| 19:57.54 | kerio | RiD: it should be exactly that |
| 19:57.57 | RiD | oh... |
| 19:58.06 | ZogG_laptop | few advices to soil it to motherboard with cables it's all on TMO |
| 19:58.06 | RiD | Well, i'll talk to the guy tomorrow at nokia care |
| 19:58.18 | RiD | yes i've seen those threads |
| 19:58.50 | RiD | basically my friend said that the guy on nokia care said that i could get the N900's "successor" phone for about 180 |
| 19:59.07 | kerio | the N9? |
| 19:59.09 | ZogG_laptop | 180 what? |
| 19:59.09 | kerio | eeeeeeh |
| 19:59.11 | RiD | I have 20-and something days to decide. |
| 19:59.18 | kerio | it's more like a retarded cousin |
| 19:59.21 | RiD | kerio well, i dont know. thats why im going there |
| 19:59.23 | ZogG_laptop | n9 is nice but dead |
| 19:59.24 | RiD | because really, there is no successor |
| 19:59.35 | ZogG_laptop | damn, again :P |
| 19:59.42 | RiD | im going to ask all details, and if I buy it, will I keep my old N900, etc bla bla |
| 19:59.46 | ZogG_laptop | anyway i hope u get lumia then :P |
| 20:00.00 | RiD | If yes - and if it's a N9 or an expensive phone that people might be interested in buying... |
| 20:00.02 | RiD | i'd go for it. |
| 20:00.09 | kerio | buy lumia, sell lumia, buy two n900s |
| 20:00.10 | ZogG_laptop | 180 what? what currency? |
| 20:00.15 | RiD | |
| 20:00.17 | RiD | euros |
| 20:00.39 | RiD | "about". Since my friend doesn't know the exact price and stuff. I'll have all my doubts solved tomorrow afternoon |
| 20:00.41 | ZogG_laptop | i think it's almost the prive of new one :P |
| 20:00.50 | RiD | depends on the phone |
| 20:01.30 | vi__ | kerio: get a different terminal. |
| 20:01.59 | RiD | also, I think i'll end up sending my N900 to someone here who knows how to repair |
| 20:02.03 | ZogG_laptop | kerio: sell 2 n900 buy 5 3310 |
| 20:02.19 | ZogG_laptop | RiD: good luck with that |
| 20:02.23 | RiD | i'm not trusting an half-hassed repair house that might just screw it even more :| |
| 20:02.47 | RiD | i'll have to study the shipping prices and stuff... might end up not being worth it :( |
| 20:03.13 | RiD | this because nokia decided to be a twat and save 1cent on the usb port :D |
| 20:03.14 | ZogG_laptop | RiD: where are you from? |
| 20:03.17 | RiD | Portugal |
| 20:03.37 | ZogG_laptop | find solering masters |
| 20:03.40 | ZogG_laptop | i fixed mine |
| 20:03.59 | ZogG_laptop | and put expo and ruined that way the day i repeaired it :P |
| 20:04.13 | RiD | why did you put expo |
| 20:04.18 | ZogG_laptop | gave to my friend who knew girl who can solder with needle and she fixed it :P |
| 20:04.25 | RiD | wow |
| 20:04.32 | ZogG_laptop | RiD: so i don't rip it off again |
| 20:04.51 | RiD | isn't expo or w/e a glue brand? |
| 20:04.52 | ZogG_laptop | it's her work |
| 20:05.17 | ZogG_laptop | RiD: it's glue but really strong one(not in meaning of superglue) |
| 20:05.26 | ZogG_laptop | it's like glue* |
| 20:05.28 | kerio | ~usbfix |
| 20:05.29 | infobot | it has been said that usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) |
| 20:05.34 | RiD | epoxy right |
| 20:06.09 | RiD | i could try fixing it with a hammer |
| 20:06.22 | RiD | but i'm afraid of breaking the hammer |
| 20:06.27 | ZogG_laptop | kerio: i did it before it was cool and bot knew it :P |
| 20:14.21 | Sicelo | lol. my N900 will sometimes start playing my playlist automatically after a missed call |
| 20:18.53 | Sicelo | this happens as soon as the ringtone stops. weird |
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| 20:40.41 | kerio | Sicelo: Open Media Player? |
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| 21:05.45 | Sysaxed | "<ZogG_laptop> kerio: sell 2 n900 buy 5 3310" you could buy about 15 3310 for that amount of money |
| 21:07.17 | Sysaxed | maybe 30 |
| 21:08.34 | deepy\SIGSEGV | I wonder if I can sell my N900 for more than I paid for it |
| 21:08.54 | Sysaxed | deepy\SIGSEGV, how much did you pay? |
| 21:09.42 | kerio | deepy\SIGSEGV: why do you want to sell it :( |
| 21:09.54 | deepy\SIGSEGV | So I can buy another and sell that |
| 21:10.09 | deepy\SIGSEGV | pushing the prices up, gradually making people believe there's a huge market in it |
| 21:10.19 | deepy\SIGSEGV | Also, cheaper than trying to fix the keyboard :P |
| 21:10.37 | deepy\SIGSEGV | err, the slider sensor |
| 21:12.08 | deepy\SIGSEGV | 140EUR |
| 21:12.19 | deepy\SIGSEGV | or no, that was teh wrong one |
| 21:12.20 | deepy\SIGSEGV | 120 |
| 21:13.13 | Sysaxed | well, I've bought my n900 for 75 |
| 21:13.28 | Sysaxed | and now it's possible to buy one for 70 |
| 21:13.44 | Sysaxed | it had one little scratch on the side, everything else is fine :> |
| 21:13.52 | Sysaxed | had to wait for a half of a year to find it... |
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| 21:18.50 | Skry | mm, local "flea market" site has six currently, cheapest is 60e and is in horrible condition |
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| 21:25.46 | Skry | I think I'm going to offer him 30e, could use a spare |
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| 21:33.51 | sonofabit | hello |
| 21:34.02 | Sysaxed | In July 2012 Jolla Mobile, a Finnish company founded by former Nokia employees involved in MeeGo development, announced their work on a smartphone that would run a Mer-based Operating System. Jolla intends to announce its first smartphone product during 2012.[10] |
| 21:34.14 | Sysaxed | why am I thinking that it's going to be a total crap? |
| 21:34.24 | Sysaxed | like another device without physical keybaord |
| 21:34.31 | GeneralAntilles | It's a lot cheaper |
| 21:34.44 | GeneralAntilles | I don't think a physical keyboard determines crappiness. |
| 21:35.51 | Sysaxed | well, unfortunately it does |
| 21:35.52 | sonofabit | are there any other repositories than extras/devel/testing and ssu apps/mr0? |
| 21:36.07 | GeneralAntilles | OK then. |
| 21:36.24 | Sysaxed | if we wanted a phone without physical keyboard - we could live with iphones or similar android devices |
| 21:36.40 | GeneralAntilles | I'm more concerned with what the phone is running than rather or not it has a keyboard |
| 21:36.54 | GeneralAntilles | Would a Windows Mobile device with a physical keyboard be amazing? |
| 21:37.05 | Sysaxed | well, why would you need all linux features if you can't even type all needed symbols in a terminal? |
| 21:37.24 | Sysaxed | like | |
| 21:37.38 | GeneralAntilles | You can type more of the symbols you need with the softkeyboard than a physical keyboard, in my experience. |
| 21:37.45 | Sysaxed | lol |
| 21:37.55 | Sysaxed | tell me what I CAN'T type with my physical keyboard |
| 21:37.59 | GeneralAntilles | | |
| 21:38.03 | Sysaxed | I can |
| 21:38.05 | GeneralAntilles | tab |
| 21:38.08 | Sysaxed | I can |
| 21:38.16 | Sysaxed | for | shift+fn+l |
| 21:38.20 | Sysaxed | for tab fn+enter |
| 21:38.34 | Sysaxed | anything else? |
| 21:38.36 | GeneralAntilles | and you can type those things on a virtual keyboard |
| 21:38.43 | GeneralAntilles | So I'm not really sure what the point is? |
| 21:39.10 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, I'm not sure why I'm responding to this. |
| 21:39.20 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, Jolla will be crap. You should buy something else. |
| 21:39.25 | Sysaxed | while [ true ]; do echo "Can't imagine you typing this as fast as I can do it"; sleep 1; done |
| 21:40.17 | Sysaxed | it's fine if you have to type 10 symbols in a row with a virtual keyboard |
| 21:40.26 | Sysaxed | but going back and forth from letters to symbols... |
| 21:40.29 | Sysaxed | well, you know... |
| 21:40.38 | Sysaxed | maybe you're just not that terminal guy like I am |
| 21:42.23 | Sysaxed | GeneralAntilles, http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping |
| 21:42.46 | Sysaxed | the only thing I can't use is "Insert" key |
| 21:42.48 | Sysaxed | hmmm |
| 21:45.44 | sonofabit | are there other repositories than extras? |
| 21:46.07 | Sysaxed | sonofabit, testing and devel |
| 21:46.14 | sonofabit | other than that? |
| 21:46.21 | Sysaxed | hmm, no? |
| 21:46.27 | sonofabit | cause i got one app i cant find |
| 21:46.33 | Sysaxed | which one? |
| 21:46.37 | sonofabit | i mean i got it on my old n900 |
| 21:47.21 | sonofabit | quick status changer for im |
| 21:47.57 | sonofabit | and i can't seem to get facebook to connect but it's less important |
| 21:48.47 | RzR | GeneralAntilles, what's the problem w/ jolla ? I dont want to fire a troll , but i am pretty exited about a true qt platform |
| 21:49.14 | GeneralAntilles | RzR, nothing's wrong with Jolla. I'm excited, too. I was checking out of that conversation. ;) |
| 21:49.46 | RzR | ok missread |
| 21:50.57 | RzR | just curious how will you react if jolla-1 is just a n950 :) |
| 21:51.30 | Sysaxed | that would be awesome |
| 21:51.31 | Sysaxed | :D |
| 21:51.57 | RzR | i think it will , but nok should have many patents on the mecanical part etc |
| 21:52.00 | GeneralAntilles | RzR, hopefully with better SoC |
| 21:52.13 | GeneralAntilles | and screen |
| 21:53.32 | RzR | i am wondering how much could it take to rebuild a n950 ... in a small batch |
| 21:53.44 | RzR | gtk04 is pretty expensive |
| 21:55.07 | SpeedEvil | RzR: murderously |
| 21:55.19 | RiD | Sysaxed only one scratch? |
| 21:55.26 | Sysaxed | RiD, yep |
| 21:55.41 | SpeedEvil | RzR: assuming you can get the parts, perhaps $10000 for a batch of 10 |
| 21:55.47 | RiD | damn |
| 21:55.53 | RiD | my n900 has worn out keys |
| 21:56.01 | RiD | probably because my nails aren't exactly the shortest but still :( |
| 21:56.16 | SpeedEvil | it may be slightly less if you get lucky and have few board spins |
| 21:56.59 | *** join/#maemo threatful (~threatful@lin67-h01-31-38-185-11.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:57.00 | RiD | it would be awesome if nokia sold me a n950 |
| 21:57.01 | Sysaxed | RiD, it seemed to me that this guy was a girl on the inside |
| 21:57.14 | Sysaxed | cuz it was in a super condition |
| 21:57.21 | RiD | lol. I wish mine was in a super condition |
| 21:57.39 | RiD | but noooo, they can't repair usb because usb broken. |
| 21:57.43 | RiD | :D |
| 21:57.51 | Sysaxed | oh, there is a small dent on the side |
| 21:57.59 | RiD | mine has no housing dents at all :D |
| 21:58.37 | Sysaxed | a small one |
| 21:58.43 | RiD | it has, however, worn out keyboard, 1 deep scratch... thanks to my brother who was playing with a flying USB cable... |
| 21:58.43 | Sysaxed | but the screen is awesome |
| 21:58.50 | RiD | not scratch, more like "hole" lol |
| 21:58.57 | RiD | let's say its 0,5mm^3 |
| 21:59.24 | RiD | it's totally awesome to jump on my bed with that cable then let it fall right on the n900 |
| 21:59.29 | RiD | at an enormous speed... |
| 21:59.33 | RiD | 1 week after i got the phone. |
| 21:59.36 | Sysaxed | oh, know what... |
| 21:59.47 | RzR | <SpeedEvil> RzR: assuming you can get the parts, perhaps $10000 for a batch of 10 |
| 22:00.08 | RzR | if items are beeing sold 1KEUR on ebay , there is a market |
| 22:00.17 | RzR | illegal one ... |
| 22:00.41 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt |
| 22:00.56 | SpeedEvil | you can't get the parts thpug |
| 22:01.03 | SpeedEvil | the above is relevant |
| 22:02.46 | Sysaxed | RiD, one guy was trying to sell me this for 100 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/2012-11-07-000120_1280x800_scrot.png |
| 22:02.58 | Sysaxed | or maybe 110, I don't remember |
| 22:04.14 | RzR | cheap if the key open NokiaHQ of hidden treasure |
| 22:04.31 | RiD | is that a damaged touchscreen |
| 22:04.57 | RiD | it looks like he accidentally left the phone exposed to high levels of gamma rays |
| 22:08.10 | SpeedEvil | attempted scratch removal? |
| 22:08.48 | RiD | LOL |
| 22:08.58 | RiD | SpeedEvil he left some scratches... he should have removed the whole layer |
| 22:11.07 | Sysaxed | HAHAH |
| 22:11.46 | Sysaxed | scratch removal with sandpaper?? |
| 22:18.14 | RiD | i think he used the key |
| 22:18.16 | RiD | that's on the picture... |
| 22:19.06 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 22:20.40 | Sysaxed | but look, it worked! |
| 22:20.43 | Sysaxed | no scratch! |
| 22:20.58 | Sysaxed | just a worn out screen |
| 22:22.20 | RiD | oh well |
| 22:22.26 | RiD | i wonder how can people ruin the screen that way |
| 22:22.32 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@212-183-126-19.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:27.24 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 22:29.00 | jacekowski | Sysaxed: you can remove scratches with sandpaper |
| 22:29.11 | jacekowski | Sysaxed: but it has to be correct grit |
| 22:29.18 | jacekowski | and used correctly |
| 22:29.22 | jacekowski | it's called polishing |
| 22:29.55 | Sysaxed | yea, I know |
| 22:31.10 | Sysaxed | maybe this guy thought this one is for polishing https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/2012-11-07-003100_347x274_scrot.png |
| 22:31.59 | jacekowski | well, depends |
| 22:32.01 | jacekowski | it can be |
| 22:32.10 | jacekowski | you start with coarse one |
| 22:32.13 | jacekowski | and then go up |
| 22:34.57 | *** join/#maemo nyl (~nyl@188.173.18.199) |
| 22:36.34 | RiD | also known as wearing out the screen |
| 22:36.34 | RiD | lol |
| 22:46.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<RzR> gtk04 is pretty expensive)) errrrr, look at TI zoom-II, it's like 4 times the price of gta04, for basically same hw |
| 22:47.56 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@200.119.172.6) |
| 22:49.12 | rZr | pretty expensive for the average joe... |
| 22:49.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Sysaxed> RiD, one guy was trying to sell me this for 100 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/2012-11-07-000120_1280x800_scrot.png)) HEY, I think I know that device, screen, story. Seems it's been caused by some bodylotion or sth like that |
| 22:50.12 | *** join/#maemo sasquatch (~username@46.115.26.117) |
| 22:50.35 | RiD | ...bodylotion. |
| 22:50.41 | Sysaxed | what :D |
| 22:50.42 | RiD | How would bodylotion end up there |
| 22:50.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | the guy once came here and admitted there was some smeary substance on the screen |
| 22:51.01 | Sysaxed | why would somebody apply bodylotion to n900? |
| 22:51.05 | RiD | ... |
| 22:51.06 | RiD | secrets |
| 22:51.19 | Sysaxed | I know that I'm treating my n900 as a baby.. but bodylotion.. |
| 22:51.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you could do a phonecall with some peeling on your face ;-P |
| 22:51.52 | Sysaxed | haha :D |
| 22:52.27 | Sysaxed | well, it does really look like a cheek |
| 22:52.29 | Sysaxed | but still... |
| 22:52.39 | RiD | well, ask C.S.I. |
| 22:52.48 | RiD | they will find out everything using that photo |
| 22:53.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you also could store the device e.g. in your car's trunk, and then have a leaking reserve gasoline tank in there |
| 22:54.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that may easily wreck the plastic, and the smeary substance just been leaking separator silicone oil of digitizer |
| 22:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | any pinhole punched into digitizer will already wreck it by leaking separator oil and thus shorting the planes |
| 22:57.37 | *** join/#maemo joga (M75Hn1zG@rikki.fi) |
| 22:57.40 | *** join/#maemo Psotnick (psotnick@shell.legowisko.org) |
| 22:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: I seriously doubt you can polish dents or scars out of a resistive digitizer foil |
| 22:59.22 | SpeedEvil | you can remove scratches |
| 22:59.26 | SpeedEvil | surface ones |
| 22:59.31 | RiD | mine is full of those |
| 22:59.37 | RiD | mostly caused by the pen i believe |
| 22:59.47 | RiD | they're only visible in certain lights and positions, thankfully. |
| 23:00.10 | Sysaxed | RiD, you're using your pen as a stylus too? :D |
| 23:00.48 | MrPingu | Or using your stylus as a pen? |
| 23:01.13 | RiD | oh.. |
| 23:01.18 | RiD | i mean stylus, not pen |
| 23:01.25 | RiD | i use the one that came with the phone |
| 23:01.41 | RiD | its full of 4mm long scratches :( |
| 23:01.47 | RiD | drawing too much i guess |
| 23:02.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | still ponders selling styli of pure stainless steel, copper, or silver |
| 23:02.44 | Sysaxed | when I'm on math lesson and using speedcrunch I can use my pen as a stylus :D |
| 23:02.46 | SpeedEvil | I remove scratches by replacing the protector :-) |
| 23:03.05 | RiD | university, Sysaxed ? |
| 23:03.15 | Sysaxed | nah, school |
| 23:03.24 | RiD | you're under 18 |
| 23:03.29 | RiD | IRC is a dangerous place |
| 23:03.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, Sysaxed |
| 23:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | you seen your mail? |
| 23:03.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | memo rather |
| 23:03.51 | RiD | it's where hackers meet eachother. Think about two boats overseas.... |
| 23:03.58 | Sysaxed | RiD, I'm exactly 18, last form |
| 23:04.08 | RiD | so you failed one year |
| 23:04.12 | Sysaxed | nope |
| 23:04.17 | Sysaxed | that's how it works in Estonia |
| 23:04.20 | RiD | well, different school system then :p |
| 23:04.21 | MrPingu | It's possible ;) |
| 23:04.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | /msg memoserv help |
| 23:04.50 | MrPingu | Here if you follow the highest level of secondary school without delays, you can be 18 too |
| 23:05.54 | RiD | not here, unless my brain is failing on maths |
| 23:06.29 | RiD | I will however be 18 when it ends because I switched my course |
| 23:06.32 | MrPingu | You are 12 when you go to secondary school, then we have 3 levels: |
| 23:06.47 | MrPingu | 4, 5, and 6 years ;) |
| 23:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh!! >> [2012-11-06 00:43:57] [Notice] -MemoServ- Sysaxed is not registered. |
| 23:07.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-11-06 00:43:56] <-> memoserv> send Sysaxed mce.ini: # 2 - leave keypad interrupts on even after blanking \n # (used to support pass-through of +/-) |
| 23:08.04 | Sysaxed | oh |
| 23:08.24 | Sysaxed | oh-oh |
| 23:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 23:08.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll never again doubt my words, will you? X-P |
| 23:09.07 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05, how can I get this file? |
| 23:09.18 | Sysaxed | or maybe you could just point me to the lines that were changed |
| 23:09.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat /etc/mce/mce.ini |
| 23:09.37 | Sysaxed | I've scrolled the whole mce.ini and haven't found anything that could affect keys when blanking |
| 23:09.59 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05, yeah, but what should I change to make them work? |
| 23:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | less +"/# 2 - leave " /etc/mce/mce.ini |
| 23:10.43 | Sysaxed | OH |
| 23:10.44 | Sysaxed | I see it |
| 23:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | especially for you: #> sed -i 's/DisableKPImmediately=1/DisableKPImmediately=2/' /etc/mce/mce.ini |
| 23:14.30 | Sysaxed | I've done it already :D |
| 23:14.31 | Sysaxed | thanks |
| 23:14.37 | Sysaxed | testing |
| 23:16.57 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@200.49.191.98) |
| 23:17.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and? |
| 23:17.49 | Sysaxed | it works |
| 23:17.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 23:17.59 | Sysaxed | sudo cat /dev/input/keypad |
| 23:18.05 | Sysaxed | now lock screen, press volume keys |
| 23:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOW you'll never again doubt my words, will you? X-P |
| 23:18.21 | Sysaxed | after you unlock you'll see some garbage - it works |
| 23:18.30 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05, sorry, Mister! |
| 23:18.46 | Sysaxed | you were right :3 |
| 23:18.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe |
| 23:18.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | toldya I did it |
| 23:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | before |
| 23:19.06 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@200.119.172.6) |
| 23:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | couldn't think how it would fail for you then |
| 23:20.43 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05, how can I map them now? There's a problem - they're controlling sound volume |
| 23:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, and they won't stop doing that |
| 23:21.39 | Sysaxed | haha |
| 23:21.40 | *** join/#maemo wmarone (~wmarone@c-67-174-151-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | you best chance is to check for uktrashort keypress |
| 23:22.04 | Sysaxed | or I can change the volume back :D |
| 23:22.14 | Sysaxed | hope it will be fast enough |
| 23:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | OR: you cehck for + and - pressed concurrently |
| 23:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik volume stops to change as soon as both are pressed |
| 23:23.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you wouldn't lose volume control |
| 23:23.24 | Sysaxed | ok |
| 23:23.41 | Sysaxed | any suggestions on how to launch a script on a keypress? xbindkeys? |
| 23:23.50 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.170.72) |
| 23:23.58 | Sysaxed | nah, I'd google that |
| 23:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | OOOH, sorry. I suggested BS to you. N900 volume rocker doesn't mechanically alow to press + and - concurrently |
| 23:27.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | so detect + followed immediately by - as one meta command, and - immedately followed by + as the other |
| 23:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as you see a + or - keypress, store current volume to a local variable. if during next 0.2s you detect another (opposite) keypress (like - after +) you start whatever script you defined for that meta command AND you keep resetting volume to what you stored to local variable (maybe +/- some offset to compensate for skew introduced until you imitially read out and stored the current volume) |
| 23:31.40 | Sysaxed | wtf is that internal error? http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Matan |
| 23:32.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | not unseen |
| 23:32.13 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05, yeah, that's clear |
| 23:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | something fsckd up with wiki |
| 23:34.17 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-98-210-156-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:34.21 | *** part/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-98-210-156-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:34.25 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-98-210-156-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:34.31 | internetishard | anyone here in SF? |
| 23:34.45 | internetishard | tmobile has been having serious outages. Couldn't even call 911 if I tried. |
| 23:35.06 | internetishard | Anyone tried verison, at&t, etc (on n900, of course)? |
| 23:35.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, couldn't if? |
| 23:35.13 | internetishard | (In SF) |
| 23:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's telling you that you couldn't? |
| 23:35.29 | internetishard | my cell phone |
| 23:35.33 | internetishard | zero connectivity |
| 23:35.35 | internetishard | for hours |
| 23:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then maybe the network is down? |
| 23:36.08 | internetishard | It has been. Everytime I call, "we can't control how quickly the engineers work.... etc" |
| 23:37.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | 911 overrides some 8 or 12 other calls on same time disk. So if the base station is crowded (think superbowl or sth), you might not be able to place a normal call, but 911 still works, tearing down 12 other calls to free a channel for your 911 call |
| 23:38.28 | internetishard | yes, it says "no cell connectivity" or wahtever |
| 23:38.33 | internetishard | that's how bad the coverage has been |
| 23:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | aboce applies to 2G / GSM only. Dunno what's situation on 3G / WCDMA |
| 23:38.36 | internetishard | downtown SF |
| 23:38.59 | internetishard | no 3G or HSPA - it's said "2.5G" for a month at least |
| 23:40.30 | *** join/#maemo Timo (~timo@unaffiliated/tiempjuuh) |
| 23:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | internetishard: if you really wanna do a 911 call, you might be better off by removing your SIM. |
| 23:41.14 | internetishard | I didn't REALLY, I just wanted to prove how shit their service is |
| 23:41.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | since then the modem is looking for *any* carrier to place the emergency call |
| 23:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | it *might* do same still, for 911 calls, with SIM inserted |
| 23:42.56 | internetishard | Anyway, I'm more curious about other providers. I'm just not going to pay my bill and switch |
| 23:44.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | your complaint about how shit their service kinda sounds like "look how bad that TV station. Since 3h they don't transmit anything, just snow and no signal on my screen, HELL they couldn't even send tsunami warnings, that's how down their transmitter is" |
| 23:44.51 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@77.109.103.184) |
| 23:45.22 | internetishard | lol |
| 23:45.23 | internetishard | yep |
| 23:45.38 | internetishard | because of what you said, the tsunami warnings (911 on cells) get higher priority |
| 23:45.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's however quite unusual when several base stations go down concurrently so you don't have *any* coverage |
| 23:45.51 | internetishard | good PoC that it's DITW |
| 23:46.17 | internetishard | I walked a few blocks and finally got my measily 2G sign back an 1 or 2 bars |
| 23:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, what I said applies to network overload only |
| 23:46.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | not to "no signal" sitation |
| 23:46.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | situation* |
| 23:47.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite strange |
| 23:48.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | especially taking into account the size of blocks I'd assume in SF |
| 23:48.10 | internetishard | Then I had to hear an earful about how the n900 isn't a "tmobile phone" on customer support |
| 23:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | usual urban cell has a diameter of less than 250m |
| 23:48.45 | internetishard | I don't know how fast it should come back - it might have come back after just one block if I had waited... After exiting an elevator it usually takes about 60s to get a bar again. |
| 23:49.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | your SIM might be defect |
| 23:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | since modem stores servicing cell and list of neighbour cells on SIM, to check those first after connectivity ditch |
| 23:50.47 | internetishard | Yeah, I'm going to get a new SIM before I switch to a provider since the down time of having a phone number transfered to another provider is probably even worse. |
| 23:52.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | internetishard: btw never tell hotline what phone you're using. It doesn't matter for anything hotline could do sth about |
| 23:53.05 | internetishard | I always assumed that, but they're all like "no!... what is the IMEI number?!" |
| 23:53.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | so if they ask you about your phone type, answer "it's one of those new black ones, with a huge screen. Sorry? Nah, I don't give a damn about the brand or name, I wouldn't even know where to look at to find out" |
| 23:53.20 | internetishard | they claim they enter it and "it makes it work better" |
| 23:54.22 | internetishard | I don't know what they need to know in order to, for example, bump me up to HSPA. But I learned today that regardless of price you pay, Tmo will give you either 2G, 3G, or HSPA |
| 23:54.23 | internetishard | + |
| 23:54.40 | internetishard | Which is confusing, because how does the tower decide which to provide to your phone? |
| 23:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not entirely bullshit, they indeed *might* adjust stuff like audioequalization and echo cancelation to your particulr phone type. |
| 23:54.43 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@77.109.103.184) |
| 23:55.11 | internetishard | What's your reason for not telling them which phone? |
| 23:56.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-11-07 00:48:10] <internetishard> Then I had to hear an earful about how the n900 isn't a "tmobile phone" on customer support |
| 23:56.05 | internetishard | the cell architecture was so much more straightforward in scandinavia. Go to store, pay $10, get HSPA speeds after poping in SIM & entering code. |
| 23:56.34 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@88.red-2-139-206.staticip.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:56.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, same here. Actually in whole Europe I guess |
| 23:57.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | USA is third world of telecommunication |
| 23:57.13 | internetishard | Yeah, wasn't as nice in holland, though. |
| 23:57.39 | internetishard | I've worked a town away from mountain view, and we couldn't get cable - only two DSL lines |
| 23:57.53 | internetishard | now I'm downtown SF and my comcast down speed is 6mbps |
| 23:58.03 | internetishard | and that's second to highest teir they'll provide |
| 23:58.38 | internetishard | There are some indy ISPs that are cool, which do point to point microwave, but my apartment building is in bed with ATT and Comcast, and disallows it. |
| 23:58.46 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@a88-112-164-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 23:58.47 | internetishard | Then I get sad and drink alcohol. |
| 23:58.53 | RiD | yes |
| 23:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, alcohol |
| 23:59.12 | *** join/#maemo sasquatch (~username@46.115.26.117) |
| 23:59.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | good idea |
| 23:59.20 | merlin1991 | 10-4 |
| 23:59.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | heads out to the fridge |
| 23:59.24 | RiD | expensive one |
)){kind=link}