| 00:03.57 | *** join/#maemo plourde (4ac69644@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.198.150.68) |
| 00:04.23 | plourde | Hello, can someone please help me. I manually installed nitdroid with uboot and when i try to download apps apk files off the net it says no sd card. How do i mount the optfs folder in maemo permenently in nitdroid for applications? |
| 00:07.01 | plourde | Any help pls |
| 00:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | /join #nitdroid |
| 00:11.28 | plourde | I did. No advice |
| 00:12.21 | plourde | Been trying and doing research and cant find anything |
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| 00:52.08 | gry | hello! how do i install maemo sql with qemu? i installed qemu and qemu-launcher and downloaded Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z |
| 00:52.14 | gry | s/sql/sdk/ |
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| 01:40.12 | Hurrian | gry, that |
| 01:40.24 | Hurrian | *that's not the Maemo 5 QEMU rootfs |
| 01:40.31 | Hurrian | iirc it's for vmware or something |
| 01:41.11 | Hurrian | what exactly do you want to do? do you want to set up a N900 hardware emulation QEMU, or the Maemo 5 SDK for building apps? |
| 01:41.30 | Hurrian | for the latter all you need to do is run the python script |
| 01:42.18 | gry | Hurrian, thanks, I'm trying to run some sort of emulation platform, such as a virtual machines do. |
| 01:44.03 | gry | Hurrian, I had maemo SDK installed at a point, I don't remember how it worked but it had files in random places such as /scratchbox, and was not easy to delete; I'd prefer something that's easy to delete, like a virtual machine |
| 01:44.57 | Hurrian | unzip that file you just downloaded, and run it in vmware. |
| 01:45.06 | Hurrian | make a snapshot so you can clean up nice and easy. |
| 01:47.04 | gry | I'm afraid I don't have vmware installed, because it's proprietary, or somesuch |
| 01:47.36 | Hurrian | well, you can import the vmdk into virtualbox |
| 01:48.47 | Hurrian | and it'd boot |
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| 02:06.15 | FIQ | <DocScrutinizer05> btw nfc what's 1299184634, seems like a random ID string modest is using everywhere on my N900 mail |
| 02:06.21 | FIQ | looks like unix timestamp |
| 02:06.33 | FIQ | err nvm, speed said that |
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| 02:07.30 | FIQ | Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:37:14 GMT apparently |
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| 02:35.24 | totalizator | Sign up for Steam's Linux beta now: http://t.co/1wrFORSO |
| 02:36.52 | wmarone | already did :) |
| 02:39.24 | robbiethe1st | Already did as well |
| 02:40.02 | robbiethe1st | I answered honestly. Which probably means I'll get excluded, if they exclude anyone not putting ubuntu |
| 02:40.46 | robbiethe1st | One would hope they understand that linux users with experience can switch between distros, or figure things out with a lack of support. |
| 02:41.45 | wmarone | I'm pretty sure they are aware of it, and expect that a bunch of people answered with one of the options and will take it to fedora/arch right away |
| 02:41.51 | wmarone | but |
| 02:42.00 | wmarone | they aren't really looking for that at the moment |
| 02:43.09 | robbiethe1st | I'll be interested to see how it comes out. If I get included, I will sing valve's praise. If not, I will post angry messages on the forum and complain mightily! |
| 02:44.31 | robbiethe1st | I'm hoping they also look at wine usage, and corrilate it to actual wine data from Steam. |
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| 02:45.10 | robbiethe1st | Because, well, if I can run Steam for Windows on Debian with Wine, and use Pulseaudio while doing so... I can make /anything/ work |
| 02:45.44 | wmarone | heheh |
| 02:46.07 | robbiethe1st | Meh. If steam would ever /update/ or stop sending such large TF2 patches... I'd really like to shoot some people, darnit! |
| 02:46.07 | totalizator | hah, me too - ticked Other |
| 02:46.40 | robbiethe1st | Other on...? |
| 02:46.46 | robbiethe1st | OS? |
| 02:46.55 | totalizator | yes, OS |
| 02:47.20 | robbiethe1st | Gentoo user? |
| 02:47.24 | robbiethe1st | Or arch? |
| 02:49.04 | totalizator | Arch :D it's obvious that when you claim to be a Linux user for more than 5 years, willing to fill survey, you can switch a distro as the worst case scenario |
| 02:49.42 | robbiethe1st | I'd think so |
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| 02:50.49 | robbiethe1st | But then again, any company who'd roll out a Linux release like a Windows or Mac one... |
| 02:51.21 | robbiethe1st | Instead of just saying "Here, here's our unfinished dev version. Give us a list of bugs here at this bugzilla. |
| 02:54.55 | totalizator | it's more like a clever marketing for me, to engage all those geeks and make the Linux titles sell well when out of beta |
| 02:55.01 | totalizator | ok, time to get some sleep, o&o. |
| 02:56.24 | Skry | me too. the sleep and the Arch bits. |
| 02:56.43 | Skry | I dont even game that much but just had to sign |
| 03:00.59 | FIQ | robbiethe1st: |
| 03:01.03 | robbiethe1st | ? |
| 03:01.08 | FIQ | next time you update backupmenu |
| 03:01.18 | robbiethe1st | Yes? |
| 03:01.21 | FIQ | please make untar ignore timestamp issues |
| 03:01.27 | robbiethe1st | It does. |
| 03:01.41 | robbiethe1st | But it shows up as errors anyway, doesn't do any harm. |
| 03:01.44 | FIQ | then why did it spew out thousends of errors on me and break my rootfs? |
| 03:01.54 | FIQ | *broke |
| 03:02.24 | robbiethe1st | It will spew out errors - that's just a listing of stderr. But it's set to ignore most all errors - go check the source for the exact tar options used |
| 03:02.40 | robbiethe1st | Why do you think it broke your rootfs? |
| 03:02.56 | robbiethe1st | Did you stop it before it was complete? |
| 03:03.04 | FIQ | because it made a fine bootable device unbootable |
| 03:03.07 | FIQ | not at all |
| 03:03.16 | robbiethe1st | OK, and what kernel were you using? |
| 03:03.17 | FIQ | it said that it was complete in big nice green text |
| 03:03.24 | FIQ | powerkernel |
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| 03:04.06 | robbiethe1st | Did the backup you were restoring have the same kernel as currently flashed to the device? |
| 03:04.14 | FIQ | hmmmmmm |
| 03:04.18 | FIQ | let me think |
| 03:04.33 | robbiethe1st | If you've got a different kernel running - flashed to the kernel partition - the backup won't have kernel modules for it |
| 03:04.33 | FIQ | no |
| 03:04.36 | robbiethe1st | therefor, no booting |
| 03:04.54 | robbiethe1st | One way to check, use flasher to flash /only the stock kernel/ |
| 03:04.57 | FIQ | ok that's understandable |
| 03:05.01 | robbiethe1st | If it boots, great. |
| 03:05.13 | FIQ | i can't flash, (barely) broken microUSB |
| 03:05.22 | FIQ | i'll go to a repair shop and solve that problem |
| 03:05.29 | FIQ | then I'll be able to do stuff with it |
| 03:05.34 | robbiethe1st | Yeah. |
| 03:05.59 | robbiethe1st | But if it's not the kernel, that's weird - I /generally/ have no issues, and rarely see complaints |
| 03:06.02 | FIQ | however the problem came up as very erratic |
| 03:06.20 | FIQ | like half of the things still work, most doesn't |
| 03:06.33 | robbiethe1st | Did you flash the optfs as well? |
| 03:06.46 | FIQ | hm |
| 03:06.48 | robbiethe1st | Because all of your app's files are stored on there |
| 03:06.54 | FIQ | I don't *think* so, but I'm not sure |
| 03:07.17 | robbiethe1st | rootfs has main OS, and some binaries, plus symlinks to most apps |
| 03:07.24 | robbiethe1st | which are on the opt/home fs |
| 03:07.29 | FIQ | yeah I know what they're used for pretty much |
| 03:07.49 | FIQ | but I can't see what difference flashing optfs would make in my case |
| 03:08.05 | FIQ | bootmenu crashes after 5s of idle (probably watchdog issue), maemo doesn't boot at all, backupmenu crashes unless I press keys during startup (then it gives a "watchdog not found" error), and menu options mostly doesn't work (though they respond fine) |
| 03:08.12 | robbiethe1st | It'd only be a real issue if your current apps are different from the old apps |
| 03:08.31 | robbiethe1st | Well, that's interesting |
| 03:08.38 | robbiethe1st | I wonder if that's a kernel issue... |
| 03:08.55 | FIQ | I tried to re-restore the thing, but I cannot mount eMMC properly now |
| 03:09.19 | FIQ | it told me to run fsck (pretty sure it wouldn't change things, but it didn't work anyway - "fsck.ext2: No such file or directory") |
| 03:09.41 | robbiethe1st | So you've got no fsck on the rootfs |
| 03:09.55 | robbiethe1st | wow, could the backup have gotten corrupted/been incomplete? |
| 03:09.58 | FIQ | root shell just gave me a black screen, though it *always* did (even when things were working fine) |
| 03:10.25 | FIQ | i'm pretty sure that's not the case, unless "Completed successfully!" (or whatever the text is) isn't certain |
| 03:10.39 | FIQ | also wouldn't that also make restore impossible? |
| 03:10.56 | robbiethe1st | Well, what that knows is that tar completed successfully |
| 03:11.12 | robbiethe1st | whether the backup is complete or is what you actually want... no real way to tell |
| 03:11.21 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05 thought it was because of a bug in which backupmenu didn't tar without ignoring timestamp, which means that everything that didn't have a time of 0 failed |
| 03:11.22 | robbiethe1st | all it's doing is running simple shell commands, basically |
| 03:11.42 | FIQ | s/time/last changed time/ |
| 03:11.47 | robbiethe1st | It shouldn't. |
| 03:11.54 | robbiethe1st | Check the source actually |
| 03:12.16 | robbiethe1st | the file you're looking for is /usr/share/BackupMenu/BackupMenu.item - shell script |
| 03:12.20 | robbiethe1st | look for 'gtar' lines. |
| 03:12.51 | robbiethe1st | Hm, can you mount anything via USB? |
| 03:13.36 | robbiethe1st | Dinnertime. Be back soon. |
| 03:14.27 | FIQ | sorry, but when I check the source, I see no trace of a "ignore timestamp", though my knowledge of gtar might just be limited |
| 03:14.53 | FIQ | gtar p"$backupRootCompress"cf $backupRootLocation ./ --ignore-failed-read --numeric-owner --exclude=./tmp/* 2> /tmp/tarstatus & pid=$! <-- is the line |
| 03:16.23 | FIQ | no... |
| 03:16.35 | FIQ | I checked manpage quickly, the options given seems to be unrelated to that |
| 03:18.32 | FIQ | possible that --ignore-failed-read ignores mtime though, so you might be correct |
| 03:19.52 | FIQ | oh well, I can't really diagnose anything at the moment due to microUSB problems, as said |
| 03:20.30 | FIQ | Ok, I can see that a modified kernel would make Maemo unbootable. |
| 03:20.41 | FIQ | er, different kernel between restore and pre-restore |
| 03:21.17 | FIQ | I can *not* however see why that would broke backupmenu as horrible as it did (or bootmenu for that matter, which doesn't even use the kernel pre-boot) |
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| 03:25.33 | FIQ | Also, I though that the kernel *were* in the rootfs, i.e. didn't think about it much when I flashed a new kernel in first place |
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| 04:04.03 | robbiethe1st | FIQ, I can't give you too much help with regards to the screwed-up restore; only thing I can suggest is doing a diff of your backup image(if you have a copy elsewhere) against a previous backup or another person's. |
| 04:04.53 | FIQ | i'll see what I can do once i can reflash and boot the device (as it's all on eMMC etc) |
| 04:06.04 | robbiethe1st | Yeah |
| 04:06.20 | robbiethe1st | Um, check the thread. There's an old 'bootstrap' rootfs image you can try |
| 04:06.23 | robbiethe1st | flashable |
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| 11:31.07 | kerio | While this was running, /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/status said "Charging". I'd guess that this is not quite true. The N900 was receiving power but not enough to run the N900 and the battery was emptying. /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/charge_current says "1750". What does that mean? I doubt that it means that the N900 is receiving 1750 mA. |
| 11:31.10 | kerio | haha wat |
| 11:31.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1286272&postcount=115 - explain |
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| 11:40.52 | SpeedEvil | from memory, there is no way to measure charging current |
| 11:41.06 | SpeedEvil | only battery current |
| 11:41.45 | SpeedEvil | 'charging' means have vbus, from the charger perspective |
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| 11:53.42 | kerio | wtf, where's the download link for apkenv? :s |
| 11:56.39 | GeneralAntilles | thp must've taken it down. |
| 11:56.44 | GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1284909&postcount=326 |
| 11:56.49 | kerio | meh |
| 11:56.49 | GeneralAntilles | Found here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Apkenv |
| 11:56.59 | GeneralAntilles | (.zip containing a .deb) |
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| 11:58.49 | kerio | thankfully the wayback machine exists |
| 11:59.03 | kerio | aww, it's not archived :( |
| 12:00.31 | GeneralAntilles | Uh |
| 12:00.33 | GeneralAntilles | I just linked it. |
| 12:00.36 | GeneralAntilles | I'll try again. |
| 12:00.40 | GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1284909&postcount=326 |
| 12:01.00 | kerio | >harmattan |
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| 12:02.13 | GeneralAntilles | Ah |
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| 12:07.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/status without pali's bq24150.ko, so I have NFC what does "charging" mean |
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| 12:10.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1241530&postcount=1 so please ask the OP of thread, not me |
| 12:11.29 | qwazix | who's got a Nexus 7? Native ubuntu on it since yesterday, with hildon on it could be almost maemo. |
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| 12:29.59 | LaoLang_cool | How to set maemo's clock from cli? |
| 12:30.22 | LaoLang_cool | gui is so slow |
| 12:30.38 | LaoLang_cool | I want to set time format and time zone from cli |
| 12:30.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | date & hwclock? |
| 12:30.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 12:30.59 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, hwclock? |
| 12:31.08 | jon_y | silly UI wants you to swipe/scroll all the way |
| 12:33.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: nevermind, for setting TZ and format you need other tools, no idea what's the maemo way to edit them |
| 12:34.22 | jon_y | tzset? |
| 12:34.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: setting clock is date(1) and hwclock(8) |
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| 12:34.59 | xray7224 | hello |
| 12:35.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | hello |
| 12:39.08 | LaoLang_cool | I tried to use gconftool-2 -s /apps/clock/time-format --type=boolean ture, but it doesn't work, after I launch clock, the time format will be changed to default 12hr again |
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| 12:39.28 | LaoLang_cool | I got confused |
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| 12:42.45 | xray7225 | * pressed |
| 12:43.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | xray7225: eh? |
| 12:44.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: I assume the 'ture' is a typo you introduced here? |
| 12:45.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: check by >> gconftool-2 -g /apps/clock/time-format<< |
| 12:46.27 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, it's typo ;p |
| 12:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but where? |
| 12:46.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as it's a typo here, it doesn't affect cli |
| 12:47.03 | LaoLang_cool | I have set it to true, but after launch clock, the value will be restored to 'false' |
| 12:47.18 | LaoLang_cool | I don't know why |
| 12:47.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | in cli however it won't throw an error (I just checked) but I doubt it will result in what you intended |
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| 12:49.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: check out tzconfig, tzset, and locale |
| 12:50.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/set/select/ |
| 12:50.39 | LaoLang_cool | After running gconftool-2, time showing on status bar will be changed to 24hr format, but after running clock, it will be restored back to 12hr |
| 12:50.56 | LaoLang_cool | H iave no tzset cmd here in maemo ... |
| 12:51.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | tzseelct |
| 12:51.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | tzselect grrrr |
| 12:52.06 | LaoLang_cool | -sh: tzselect: not found |
| 12:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/home/user# ll /usr/bin/tzselect |
| 12:52.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 6894 2010-06-08 14:19 /usr/bin/tzselect |
| 12:52.35 | LaoLang_cool | but tz<tab> can give tzselect as a completion candidate, weired... |
| 12:52.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc which pkg brought it |
| 12:52.45 | LaoLang_cool | I'm running as root now |
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| 13:08.11 | LaoLang_cool | oh, tzselect use /bin/bash as shell, I haven't it, so it says not found |
| 13:09.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: libc6, apparently |
| 13:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ?? tzselect? |
| 13:11.16 | kerio | yep |
| 13:11.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: dafq a lib comes with cmdline binaries? |
| 13:11.21 | kerio | dpkg -S `which tzselect` |
| 13:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 13:12.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: thanks |
| 13:12.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you think you can stop trolling now that your stand-in is here again? :-D |
| 13:12.39 | kerio | nope |
| 13:12.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | way too useful... ;-P |
| 13:13.01 | kerio | i feel that the mixture of trolling and helping is what really upsets people |
| 13:13.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehehe |
| 13:13.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be about right |
| 13:14.20 | kerio | and in the meantime, i help people :D |
| 13:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm however afraid that - if this tz* stuff comes with libc6 - it might be of no effect on maemo |
| 13:16.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly a strace of the time&language picker in maemo settings might reveal what's primary location to tweak for such TZ and format stuff |
| 13:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | in maemo |
| 13:17.27 | kerio | or just dbus-monitor |
| 13:17.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | alternatively do a ls -lR / >before-ls; gconftool -R / >before-gc |
| 13:18.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | the change settings-tz, then compare before* to after* |
| 13:18.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | then* change... |
| 13:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | (dbus) I'm not sure this class of settings is done via dbus |
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| 13:38.40 | ccssnet | trolling? you dont say... |
| 13:39.23 | kerio | i do say |
| 13:43.58 | ccssnet | precisely |
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| 16:38.51 | kerio | Pali: what's the state of uboot as a full NOLO replacement? |
| 16:39.14 | Pali | uboot has no support for n900 onenand |
| 16:39.17 | kerio | Pali: ROMBL tries to read xloader from the uSD apparently, so it would be neat if we had a way to run an emergency emergency system from there |
| 16:39.27 | Pali | kerio, but in qemu it show me hello world to serial console :-) |
| 16:39.42 | Pali | so I think uboot spl is working for n900 |
| 16:40.01 | kerio | Pali: what about the hw initialization? |
| 16:40.17 | Pali | kerio, I do not know if omap n900 can boot xloader from sd card... |
| 16:40.33 | freemangordon | Pali: it can |
| 16:40.46 | Pali | kerio, at least xloader+uboot spl doing all what is needed for qemu |
| 16:40.59 | freemangordon | look at the end of the TRM for details |
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| 16:41.23 | Pali | freemangordon, it needs to configure to change boot sequence |
| 16:41.38 | Pali | and I do not know if it is possible on n900 without serial console... |
| 16:42.00 | Pali | at least there *is* command for "cold-flashing" for it |
| 16:42.09 | Pali | to boot from mmc |
| 16:42.40 | freemangordon | Pali: the boot order depends on some DWORD in RAM iirc |
| 16:42.57 | Pali | but I do not know exact format of xloader on non gp devices |
| 16:43.08 | Pali | in trm is only MLO file for gp device |
| 16:43.13 | freemangordon | I see |
| 16:43.38 | Pali | I already looked at it when I implemented cold flashing... |
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| 17:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'm eager to test MLO on uSD, what's been the exact requirements? VFAT partition, MLO.*? on \ ? |
| 17:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, dd if=dev/NOLO of=MyDocs/MLO.bin would be a start |
| 17:21.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd expect boot to fail and freeze on that |
| 17:21.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: freemangordon: ^^^ |
| 17:24.26 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, see http://omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project |
| 17:25.34 | Pali | see also: http://linux.fjfi.cvut.cz/~zub/omap34xx-boot-order/ |
| 17:25.44 | Pali | but I have no idea if this working on HS devices |
| 17:29.00 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'd guess MBR and the first partition formatted as vfat |
| 17:29.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nope, a file called MLO |
| 17:29.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, i mean |
| 17:29.38 | kerio | MLO.bin in the first vfat partition of the MBR |
| 17:30.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure I guess it will look for MBR to get partiton table to learn what's first partition |
| 17:30.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the file is "MLO" in root, not "MLO.bin" |
| 17:31.16 | kerio | i see |
| 17:34.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oh LOL |
| 17:35.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ./omap34xx-boot-order |
| 17:35.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sys_boot[5:0]: 0x10 |
| 17:35.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Boot order: OneNAND USB UART3 MMC1 -- |
| 17:35.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: mio. thanks |
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| 17:39.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | so if that's true and I'm not mistaken, you *can't* coldflash a working xloader+NOLO - or could you? |
| 17:39.49 | kerio | USB is coldflash? |
| 17:39.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, xloader still might check USB before chainloading existing NOLO |
| 17:40.05 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: remember the nandtester |
| 17:40.08 | kerio | he had no xloader |
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| 17:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yep, that's pretty easily the reason why he could coldflash |
| 17:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ROMBL didn't find a valid xloader in NAND, so listened to ZSB for coldflashing |
| 17:41.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | USB* |
| 17:41.48 | kerio | hm |
| 17:42.03 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so we *are* set, if we find a way to boot from uSD |
| 17:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 17:42.27 | kerio | oh no wait, there's still a problem |
| 17:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Boot order: OneNAND USB UART3 MMC1 -- |
| 17:42.52 | kerio | it only goes to mmc1 if it can't load the nand xloader |
| 17:43.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, exactly |
| 17:43.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what xloader does, this is a completely different story then |
| 17:44.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project#Second_Stage_Boot |
| 17:48.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | cp $whatever /media/mmc1/u-boot.bin |
| 17:48.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be worth a try |
| 17:48.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>In the case of loading the u-boot via the SD card, the SD card x-loader looks for a FAT32 partition on the first MMC controller and scans the top level directory for a file named "u-boot.bin". It then transfers the file into main memory and transfers control to it.<< |
| 17:49.08 | kerio | ...huh, i have an u-boot.bin on my MyDocs |
| 17:49.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I guess 'our' xloader doesn't do that |
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| 17:50.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might look at USB for somebody trying to coldflash NOLO, and load 2nd NOLO from there into RAM, but it probably won't look at MMC1 for u-boot.bin |
| 17:51.14 | kerio | :( |
| 17:51.48 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, colflashing is done via USB peripherla booting |
| 17:51.58 | Pali | and usb peripheral booting is done *before* omap booting |
| 17:52.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? |
| 17:52.19 | Pali | so you can cold flash |
| 17:52.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's omap booting? |
| 17:52.38 | Pali | I mean booting from above your list |
| 17:52.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's usb peripheral booting |
| 17:53.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | the above list tells where ROMBL looks for xloader/MLO |
| 17:53.36 | kerio | what's MLO? |
| 17:53.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | once xloader got loaded, it again has some list (of possibly only one source) where to look for NOLO |
| 17:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: another name for xloader |
| 17:54.16 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, bootrom first check if there is omap asic message sent from usb |
| 17:54.29 | Pali | if yes then it wait for another message via usb |
| 17:54.38 | Pali | if no then bootrom booting from list |
| 17:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh |
| 17:55.03 | Pali | and one message is "wait for boot image via usb" and boot it |
| 17:55.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is this specified now? |
| 17:55.36 | Pali | USB in that boot order is booting from usb device |
| 17:55.41 | Pali | via host mode |
| 17:55.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | WUT? |
| 17:55.55 | Pali | (but this is not working on n900) |
| 17:55.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not what I think ROMBL can do |
| 17:56.13 | Pali | yes, omap boot rom can do it |
| 17:56.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | boot xloader from assrage device??? |
| 17:56.57 | Pali | omap bootrom can boot xloader from nand, onenand, mmc, usb flash, ... |
| 17:57.01 | Pali | look into trm |
| 17:57.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | usb FLASH? |
| 17:57.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh |
| 17:57.26 | Pali | usb flash disk |
| 17:58.14 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, see: https://github.com/radare/0xFFFF/blob/master/src/cold-flash.c#L82 |
| 17:58.34 | Pali | all possible boot messages |
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| 18:04.35 | kerio | Pali: does ROMBL try multiple times to load the xloader? |
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| 18:05.08 | Pali | kerio, I do not know what omap rom doing |
| 18:05.13 | Pali | try look at trm |
| 18:05.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | TRM "26.4 Device Initialization by ROM Code" doesn't mention mass storage mode for USB, only "download" from host |
| 18:07.54 | Pali | hm, there was booting file from FAT partition on usb device (via usb host mode) |
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| 18:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't see it anywhere in this region of TRM |
| 18:10.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | have to check "Figure 26-8. Overall Booting Sequence" for a while |
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| 18:10.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | (p.3455 of my TRM) |
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| 18:22.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I only see "/* Omap HS USB boot message */" in this 0xffff source you linked me to, and that's what I see as well in e.g. "26.4.5 Peripheral Booting" in TRM. AIUI it's waiting for image to get sent via USB "plaintext", not mounting a USB mass storage device and load some file from there |
| 18:23.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's pretty much what we expect to see for coldflashing |
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| 18:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: "Figure 26-9. Device List Setup" says "power-on reset? YES: take all devices from sys_boot [pins]" |
| 18:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: so in the end I don't see why we could make ROMBL load xloader from USB - with "Boot order: OneNAND USB UART3 MMC1 -- " - when xloader in NAND is succeeding for "try to load" |
| 18:30.04 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, ok |
| 18:31.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be happy to learn I missed something, or that maybe output of ./omap34xx-boot-order was incorrect |
| 18:32.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now it seems to me there's no way to override a working xloader in OneNAND - which otoh makes quite some sense |
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| 18:33.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't nuke xloader without booting device, and you can't boot device in a way not meant to be valid by xloader |
| 18:34.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | so in that regard the device is tamper-proof |
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| 18:47.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: tamper-proof as long as you don't have a computer and a usb cable handy |
| 18:47.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: exactly NOT |
| 18:48.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | since you can't stop ROMBL from loading and executing OneNAND xloader by any means, other than destructing the OneNAND based xloader, on a power-on-reset boot |
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| 18:49.25 | kerio | i thought coldflashing happened before the onenand xloader was loaded |
| 18:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | only if xloader fails |
| 18:49.52 | kerio | oic |
| 18:50.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | see: "Boot order: OneNAND USB UART3 MMC1 -- " |
| 18:51.03 | vi__ | ~nexus6 |
| 18:51.07 | vi__ | ~nexus |
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| 18:51.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw time window for polling USB is 300ms, if anybody is interested |
| 18:51.48 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so what happens if xloader is fine but NOLO is borked? |
| 18:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | that depends on xloader |
| 18:52.05 | kerio | the current xloader |
| 18:52.08 | kerio | the one signed by nokia |
| 18:52.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 18:52.34 | kerio | no, i mean, what does it do if NOLO is borked? |
| 18:52.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | that depends on xloader |
| 18:53.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so you don't know? |
| 18:53.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | since "it" == xloader in your question |
| 18:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I don't know since I haven't disassembled xloader yet |
| 18:54.24 | kerio | i thought somebody had tried it by now |
| 18:54.30 | kerio | ...but ofc if there's no way to recover... |
| 18:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably could tell from your PCs syslog, watching for xloader ENUM after ROMBL ENUM |
| 18:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still have to investigate and sync the data from syslog with my above reasoning |
| 18:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually for poor _lena this aren't exactly good news |
| 18:58.06 | kerio | who was that again? |
| 18:58.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | the girl which had a failing flashing-procedure |
| 18:58.35 | kerio | oh right |
| 18:58.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even failing NOLO bat test |
| 18:58.54 | kerio | i thought it was just a low battery |
| 18:59.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlikely on Vbat=4066mV or sth |
| 19:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just flabbergasted she said she swapped bupbat |
| 19:01.47 | Skry | I think he actually did mean something else |
| 19:01.49 | Skry | she |
| 19:02.04 | Skry | not used to she @ irc :D |
| 19:04.53 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, do you know AT commands? or do you have some doc for it? |
| 19:05.14 | Pali | I need to know what should "AT+CSRSF=0,0,0,0,0,7" do |
| 19:05.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know a few, but my good times are long gone ;-D |
| 19:05.58 | Pali | when I connet my bluetooth headset into hfs mode, then blutooth daemon show this into syslog |
| 19:06.00 | Pali | bluetoothd[1425]: Badly formated or unrecognized command: AT+CSRSF=0,0,0,0,0,7 |
| 19:06.11 | Pali | also on desktop and on n900 |
| 19:06.30 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, so I think bluetooth daemon does not have implemented that code |
| 19:06.43 | Pali | and I'd like to know what my bluetooth headset sending |
| 19:06.55 | Pali | but I was not able to find anything about that AT command |
| 19:06.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 19:07.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of it |
| 19:08.00 | Pali | is there any documentation for AT? |
| 19:08.01 | vi__ | Pali: it is a CIA backdoor. |
| 19:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously pnatd doesn't know it either |
| 19:08.15 | Pali | vi__, what? |
| 19:08.26 | Pali | how? :D |
| 19:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: there's a lot of AT docs, but obviously nothing mentioning AT+CSRSF |
| 19:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least according to aunt google |
| 19:10.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: http://thebirdfree-personal.googlecode.com/svn-history/r13/trunk/Ontech/twitter/lib/aghfp/aghfp_parse.parse |
| 19:11.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | # CSR Extended Features |
| 19:11.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | # a CSR Supported Features Request |
| 19:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | { AT + CSRSF = %d:callerName , %d:rawText , %d:smsInd , %d:battLevel , %d:pwrSource , %d:codecs , %*:ignore \r } : aghfpHandleReponseCSRSupportedFeatures |
| 19:11.59 | Pali | hm... |
| 19:12.47 | Pali | codecs=7 |
| 19:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-910204-start-0.html |
| 19:21.36 | Pali | there is no info about CSR... |
| 19:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Feb 1 23:12:31 localhost bluetoothd[3065]: Badly formated or unrecognized command: AT+CSRSF=1,1,1,1,1,7 << |
| 19:21.51 | vi__ | what about CCR? |
| 19:21.56 | Pali | but nobody explained what it is |
| 19:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 19:22.12 | Pali | I found many logs on google with that AT |
| 19:22.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's really few in aunt google about it |
| 19:22.46 | Pali | now I'm trying to understand that aghfp code from googlecode |
| 19:22.58 | kerio | Pali: headset asking for codec support for a2dp? |
| 19:23.16 | Pali | kerio, that AT command is for hfp |
| 19:23.22 | kerio | oh |
| 19:23.27 | kerio | Pali: headset asking for codec support for hfp? |
| 19:23.31 | kerio | >:D |
| 19:23.37 | Pali | but my headset has support for apt-x |
| 19:23.49 | kerio | i thought apt-x was strictly for a2dp |
| 19:24.02 | *** join/#maemo Timo (~timo@unaffiliated/tiempjuuh) |
| 19:24.03 | Pali | I thought too |
| 19:24.11 | Pali | I need to know more about it |
| 19:24.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | for some very strange reason google doesn't yield any hits for "AT+CSRSF" |
| 19:25.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | If I had to guess, I'd suspect something along extended functions on headset, like number display, voice-dialing, whatnot |
| 19:26.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, probably that's what HFP means ;-P |
| 19:27.30 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I have 4 buttons on headset and they working without problem (both n900 and notebook) |
| 19:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: so what did you say, who is spamming that AT+CSRSF string ? |
| 19:29.08 | Pali | my bluetooth headset |
| 19:29.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 19:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd ignore that then |
| 19:29.33 | Pali | everytime when I connect it |
| 19:29.54 | Pali | yes I'm ignoring it, but I'd like to know what is my bluetootj headset trying to tell me... |
| 19:29.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably it's just checking some special function of e.g. cryPhone or whatever |
| 19:30.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the command returns error on PNATD it will fall back to more generic methods to achieve wahtever it needs to do |
| 19:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe the headset would offer several codecs that the modem can digest natively, and thus avoid transcoding from e.g mp3 to pcm in SoC/APE |
| 19:33.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Apple/whoever might have implemented such function to save some energy |
| 19:34.04 | Pali | from "AT + CSRSF = %d:callerName , %d:rawText , %d:smsInd , %d:battLevel , %d:pwrSource , %d:codecs" I understand that my "AT+CSRSF=0,0,0,0,0,7" is name, text, sms, batt, pwr are unsupported (0) and codecs=7 |
| 19:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 19:34.33 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-187-237.as13285.net) |
| 19:34.44 | *** join/#maemo laxsill (~laxsill@90-224-142-79-no110.business.telia.com) |
| 19:34.47 | Pali | so 7 supported codecs? |
| 19:34.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 19:35.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | codec #7 ? |
| 19:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, actually number of codecs |
| 19:35.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | or class of codecs, or whatever |
| 19:35.54 | Pali | see header of that file: This file contains all AT commands as specified in the Headset and Hands Free specs. |
| 19:36.07 | Pali | Copyright (C) Cambridge Silicon Radio Ltd. 2005-2009 Part of Audio-Adaptor-SDK 2009.R1 |
| 19:36.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I noticed that, yeah |
| 19:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | whoever that might be |
| 19:37.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Cambridge Silicon Radio Ltd |
| 19:37.37 | Pali | CSR? |
| 19:37.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems it's rather a specific or proprietary cmd of them |
| 19:38.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, CSR = Cambridge Silicon Radio Ltd |
| 19:38.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | other silicon bakers might have adopted the syntax |
| 19:39.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | like AT at large once been Hayes |
| 19:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | bottom line: a highly intriguing though negligible problem |
| 19:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ergo exactly the stuff hackers spend 95% of their time when implementing a project, while the main heavy lifting is done in the remaining 5% of time, during several nightshifts |
| 19:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 19:41.40 | *** join/#maemo kaziklubey (~kaziklube@ip-180-128-230-46.dialup.ice.net) |
| 19:44.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www-personal.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/Humour/Real.Programmer.Stories.html |
| 19:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> If there is not enough schedule pressure on the Real Programmer, he tends to make things more challenging by working on some small but interesting part of the problem for the first nine weeks, then finishing the rest in the last week, in two or three 50-hour marathons. << |
| 19:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>This not only inpresses the hell out of his manager, who was despairing of ever getting the project done on time, but creates a convenient excuse for not doing the documentation.<< |
| 19:49.54 | Lava_Croft | Im sure that will result in good code! |
| 19:53.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, *real* code that nobody ever will be able to understand. that's how the "real programmer" likes his code |
| 19:53.22 | ccssnet | 50 hour marathons. ive been there... |
| 19:54.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | too |
| 19:54.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I was younf and beautiful |
| 19:54.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I needed the money ;-P |
| 19:55.09 | kerio | you're still beautiful docky! |
| 19:55.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 19:55.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | my sunglasses are, not me |
| 19:56.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually the only comment regarding my avatar so far been: "NOO!? For real???? I thought 'what a badass'!" |
| 19:58.00 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: thankgod the days where "real" programmers ruled the world are over |
| 19:58.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: yeah |
| 19:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas nowadays web programmers took over |
| 19:58.53 | Lava_Croft | is that even programming |
| 19:58.56 | Lava_Croft | i wonder |
| 19:58.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 19:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, depends whom you ask |
| 19:59.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 19:59.55 | Lava_Croft | ;) |
| 20:00.05 | Lava_Croft | ok, i have to get this off my chest |
| 20:00.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | the Qml zealots for sure will claim that's the best programming the world ever seen |
| 20:00.27 | Lava_Croft | there's too many websites sporting articles that are roughly titled "Installing Windows 8 in 7 steps" |
| 20:00.33 | Lava_Croft | Thats just a brainfuck |
| 20:00.59 | Lava_Croft | im not programmer orso, but qml is scripting to me |
| 20:01.06 | kerio | i installed linux mint on a laptop i've never seen before, yesterday |
| 20:01.08 | *** part/#maemo MetalGearSolid1 (~MetalGear@175.145.95.182) |
| 20:01.23 | kerio | i still don't know its specs, i just followed the installer |
| 20:01.30 | kerio | everything worked perfectly :s |
| 20:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 20:03.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think I never done anything different |
| 20:03.05 | ShadowJK | "customers who had visited the store so far didn't seem that interested in Microsoft's new OS and were unable to upgrade to it from Windows 7 because many of them were still running XP." |
| 20:03.18 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah but there's usually *something* that goes wrong |
| 20:03.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | not here |
| 20:03.27 | kerio | which makes things fun |
| 20:03.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe with mint |
| 20:04.02 | kerio | nah, it was the first time i ever used it |
| 20:04.07 | kerio | but it's basically ubuntu anyway |
| 20:04.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm using a commercial grade quality distro ;-D |
| 20:04.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and you should feel ashamed of it! |
| 20:04.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | PFFF |
| 20:04.46 | Lava_Croft | kerio: why not use Mint Debian? |
| 20:04.56 | kerio | Lava_Croft: not my laptop |
| 20:05.09 | Lava_Croft | And? |
| 20:05.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could state I should be ashamed for not using win3.1 and enjoying the pleasures of tweaking it to some usefulness |
| 20:05.20 | Lava_Croft | As if installing ubuntu on someone's computer is an act of friendliness |
| 20:05.36 | ccssnet | mint is a good suggestion, i install linux mint lxde flavor for other peoples pc's |
| 20:05.58 | kerio | ccssnet: MATE is a surprisingly competent "traditional" desktop |
| 20:06.11 | ccssnet | eh |
| 20:06.39 | ccssnet | i prefer to test stuff more before i just give it to people |
| 20:06.42 | ccssnet | lol |
| 20:06.55 | kerio | it's gnome 2, pretty much :3 |
| 20:07.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeeeeeek! some work sztarting with 2g" |
| 20:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang |
| 20:07.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeeeeeek! some word starting with "g" |
| 20:07.41 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@201.122.112.87.dyn.plus.net) |
| 20:07.58 | ccssnet | kerio: i still havent used it so ill get around to it |
| 20:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~buntkuh |
| 20:08.30 | infobot | methinks buntkuh is http://xkcd.com/424/ ... Redmond, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holstein-Rind |
| 20:09.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and gnome being the perfect match for that |
| 20:09.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>ubuntu: it turns out the distro is just a win-xp with some custom themes" |
| 20:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | << |
| 20:10.23 | Lava_Croft | it says Vista specifically |
| 20:10.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh vista |
| 20:10.44 | Lava_Croft | xp is too lightweight to be ubuntu |
| 20:10.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 20:11.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | my bad |
| 20:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably related to the fact that my experience with vista is ~40min so far |
| 20:12.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and those 40min been helping neighbour to install that crap |
| 20:12.38 | ShadowJK | it's funny, vista still doesn't run ok with today's hw. |
| 20:12.46 | Lava_Croft | my experience is wondering why 32bit vista was installed on my wife's 64bit laptop |
| 20:13.08 | Lava_Croft | which flowed into the experience which is kind of like "Why is this computer moving like as if stuck in a mixture of hubba bubba and marmite" |
| 20:13.15 | Lava_Croft | then i installed win7 64bit and all was solved |
| 20:13.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | never touched win7 |
| 20:13.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | literally |
| 20:14.07 | Lava_Croft | win7 is easily, hand down, the best windows version ever made |
| 20:14.09 | ShadowJK | they usually didnt install 64 bit on machines with less ram, and also it was unclear whether adobe flash would work on 64bit. |
| 20:14.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't mean much to me |
| 20:14.28 | ShadowJK | Nah I like XP, not as heavy :-) |
| 20:14.34 | Lava_Croft | but XP is very insecure |
| 20:14.38 | Lava_Croft | and old |
| 20:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hate all redmond crap, no matter which version or name |
| 20:14.54 | Lava_Croft | i dont hate software, thats silly to me |
| 20:15.08 | Lava_Croft | i use windows because i like games and games like windows |
| 20:15.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, then you've never been forced to use crappy software |
| 20:15.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise you'd have learnt to hate it |
| 20:15.36 | ShadowJK | Well it's not like I'd browse the interwebs with xp |
| 20:15.37 | Lava_Croft | crappy software in general is not MS's fault |
| 20:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean MS's software, actually |
| 20:16.05 | Lava_Croft | and i've been using windows since 5.25inch 2.0 floppies :< |
| 20:16.20 | Lava_Croft | win7 is a dream compared to the days of 95/98 |
| 20:16.45 | Lava_Croft | the problem with most linux folks and windows is that most linux folks go around windows, looking for linux stuff they can relate to |
| 20:16.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | linux is a dream _since_ the days I abandoned win95 |
| 20:16.55 | Lava_Croft | once they find out its mostly not there, they conclude it must suck |
| 20:17.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | prior to that time it been too heavy for my machines |
| 20:17.05 | Lava_Croft | since it lacks linux feature X or Y, or whatever program they always use |
| 20:17.22 | Lava_Croft | i use whats best for the job, and for games thats windows |
| 20:17.30 | Lava_Croft | for most other stuff thats lunix |
| 20:18.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm no gamer |
| 20:18.20 | Lava_Croft | then you probably dont need windows, unless forced to by your employer:) |
| 20:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly, the latter |
| 20:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 20:18.41 | kerio | *and for games windows sucks but it's the only OS they make games for |
| 20:18.44 | Lava_Croft | but in 2012, windows isnt as bad as it was in the 90s |
| 20:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even have admin rights |
| 20:18.48 | Lava_Croft | or in the days of vista |
| 20:19.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | my employer thinks XP is it |
| 20:19.05 | Lava_Croft | kerio: thats just speculation |
| 20:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | real fun to plug in a MX Revolution mouse and admin tells me "sorry dude, we're not going to install that driver for you, so you could use horizontal scroll" |
| 20:20.54 | Lava_Croft | thats the fault of your sysop |
| 20:20.59 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 20:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | tell me how to not hate windows and all that's related |
| 20:21.10 | Lava_Croft | you can do the same silly shit on linux |
| 20:21.15 | Lava_Croft | but nobody would claim linux sucks then |
| 20:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure you could |
| 20:21.19 | ccssnet | go to your happy place. |
| 20:21.21 | Lava_Croft | instead they would say WFM |
| 20:21.38 | Lava_Croft | and come up with whatever excuse that does apply to linux, but magically will not apply to wintoons |
| 20:21.41 | Lava_Croft | or osx |
| 20:22.03 | Lava_Croft | been around poor linux lover for too long now to not feel sorry for the linux lovers :< |
| 20:22.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I say windows sucks since it has no resizable windows way too often, cramming some readme or whatever ito a 120*180 pixel "notifier" |
| 20:22.34 | ccssnet | lol |
| 20:22.34 | Lava_Croft | if a readme is crammed in a tiny notifier, thats not windows' fault |
| 20:22.35 | Lava_Croft | but the fault of whoever made the notifier |
| 20:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | it IS windows' fault |
| 20:22.55 | Lava_Croft | you would never use this example in relation to linux, since for linux you would blame the person who mde the notifier |
| 20:23.01 | ccssnet | 120x180 buffer window for a EULA or related is a scam artist move... |
| 20:23.21 | Lava_Croft | but like i said, been around linux folks for a while now |
| 20:23.28 | Lava_Croft | loving linux is like loving jesus |
| 20:23.41 | Lava_Croft | so for normal people like me, its useless to discuss;) |
| 20:23.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | a) it's made by microsoft for half of the annoying notifiers, and b) windows does allow such non-resizable windows, while on X I always could tweak windows properties to force resizing |
| 20:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/eak windows/eak the window's / |
| 20:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and c) the documentation: on linux it's free and readily available (though sometimes really abyssmal), on MS Windows you could either join MSDN premium menbership, or by books for $$$ |
| 20:27.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | buy* |
| 20:28.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I haven't yet mentioned the OSS property of linux, that allows me to find my way around and even fix things, even without any documantation at all |
| 20:30.00 | Lava_Croft | fun game for normal people |
| 20:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | while Windows is like... an an "OS" based on a closed source wayland as central building block of whole system, rather than a kernel |
| 20:30.08 | Lava_Croft | replace the word linux with either jesus or god |
| 20:30.16 | Lava_Croft | and have a blast as a random linux lover starts his monologue |
| 20:31.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 20:31.16 | Lava_Croft | in other words: its wasted on me, so unless anyone else is really interested in why windows sucks, i would save myself some time! :) |
| 20:31.26 | Lava_Croft | no offense |
| 20:31.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels like trapped by trolls |
| 20:31.51 | Lava_Croft | yes, thats usually the next reaction |
| 20:32.10 | Lava_Croft | if someone does not agree and doesnt jump on the bandwagon of windows bashing |
| 20:32.16 | Lava_Croft | its either a troll or someone who knows jackshit about computers |
| 20:32.20 | Lava_Croft | mostly a combination of the two |
| 20:32.31 | Lava_Croft | time to leave you to your work, good night |
| 20:32.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you called me silly and irrational for hating software - if I couldn't convince you that my hate is quite justified and rational, I can't help |
| 20:33.04 | Lava_Croft | hate for a piece of software can never be rational |
| 20:33.08 | Lava_Croft | since its a piece of software |
| 20:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | now THAT is what *I* call silly |
| 20:33.30 | Lava_Croft | far too powerful of an emotion to be wasted on a piece of software |
| 20:34.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I don't think somebody else has to judge about my emotional economy |
| 20:34.43 | Lava_Croft | i think the moment you express your emotions is the moment you give other people the right to judge them |
| 20:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly calling me silly is not exactly sane either |
| 20:34.54 | Lava_Croft | but this is going astray |
| 20:35.12 | Lava_Croft | i was using the word silly in an attempt to get across a friendly version of retarded |
| 20:35.20 | Lava_Croft | since i dont want to sound hateful or whatever |
| 20:35.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | what about my hate for mint tea? |
| 20:35.25 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: hey, that USB hub you said the N900 was discharging on… it seems to keep it charged O.o |
| 20:35.34 | Lava_Croft | how can you hate mint tea? |
| 20:35.41 | Lava_Croft | i mean, one can dislike it or whatever |
| 20:35.42 | Lava_Croft | but hate? |
| 20:35.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe your dictionary is different from mine |
| 20:36.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | which wouldn't surprise, since it's about emotions |
| 20:37.05 | Lava_Croft | well, you are known for having a thing with drama |
| 20:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is about as precisely defined as terms of taste |
| 20:37.21 | Lava_Croft | so maybe you dont really hate, but use the word hate in an attempt to strengthen the message |
| 20:37.35 | Luke-Jr | hate = will evil toward |
| 20:37.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | you are known to troll every now and then, so maybe that's what you do now |
| 20:37.54 | Lava_Croft | Luke-Jr: yes |
| 20:38.13 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@31.25.18.35) |
| 20:38.29 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: no, but the hating of software just made me interested |
| 20:38.43 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot7 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 20:39.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh you're interested in all things you might classify as "silly2 then? Well, if your time is worth so little |
| 20:39.16 | Lava_Croft | its 2239h |
| 20:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out |
| 20:39.30 | Lava_Croft | bb! |
| 20:39.38 | *** join/#maemo bittinen (~pi@a88-114-214-26.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | since this is definitely trolling now |
| 20:40.08 | Lava_Croft | i guess its just me that think hating a piece of software is a bit childish |
| 20:40.17 | Lava_Croft | its like a kid saying I HATE BROCCOLI |
| 20:40.31 | Lava_Croft | while in fact the kid means he doesnt like the taste and/or structure of the broccoli |
| 20:40.34 | Luke-Jr | mint tea software, not tea? |
| 20:43.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | just a suspicion: your're a teacher? or maybe just a part time teacher on your own kids? |
| 20:44.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems like you're assuming the definition instance of the symbol dictionary of any communication is on your side |
| 20:44.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | read about communication theory a bit |
| 20:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | might help |
| 20:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | starts explaining to the world that there's no such thing like "cool", except for stuff from fridge |
| 20:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and weather |
| 20:46.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ¡ |
| 20:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to drive you comletely nuts: I *LOVE* broccoli |
| 20:48.53 | Lava_Croft | even worse than a kid's teacher, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 20:48.57 | Lava_Croft | I clean rich folks houses |
| 20:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | while - amazingly enough - I *hate* cabbage |
| 20:49.07 | Lava_Croft | so bad suspicion on your part :D |
| 20:49.12 | Lava_Croft | i dont hate stuff |
| 20:49.19 | Lava_Croft | i dont think there's anything i really hate |
| 20:49.20 | Lava_Croft | or anyone |
| 20:49.27 | Lava_Croft | i do dislike a whole lot of shit tho |
| 20:49.59 | Lava_Croft | but, we are keeping each other busy while we both stated we were about to do something else! |
| 20:50.02 | Lava_Croft | im sorry, o/ |
| 20:50.31 | *** join/#maemo jeverling (~quassel@jeverling.de) |
| 20:50.49 | *** join/#maemo adb (~IonMoldom@178-211-235-11.dhcp.voenergies.net) |
| 20:59.46 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 21:02.14 | *** part/#maemo adb (~IonMoldom@178-211-235-11.dhcp.voenergies.net) |
| 21:02.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | suspects some minor lost-in-translation problem. I never get the catch of US-residents answering "Wonderful, marvelous!" when asking them how they are or what they think of this new stuff. Same way you seem to have another definition of hate than me, probably what you call hateworthy I'd call "I'd like to kill..." |
| 21:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | on such quantitative scales from disgust to adore, from love to hate, from brilliant to silly, you always ahve to apply a multiplier factor as well as an offset to match any two person's personal nomenclature |
| 21:08.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. in china there's only "yes", they never answer "no" to any question for some favour or if they think something is OK. You have to apply quite some offset to the common range from no over maybe to yes, to match that scale to chinese yes1 to yes30 |
| 21:10.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | discussing if somebody can or can't hate a software seems rather futile in a multicultural multinational IRC channel |
| 21:11.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's not futile though is to ponder whether you better try to adopt your peer's dictionary or make hin adopt yours |
| 21:12.01 | Skry | Ms. always (=daily) tells me I'm the coldest bastard she ever knew, then again, I personally think I'm usually unusually over-emotional sissy. Been trying to explain I'm nothing like she is, discussion does not go anywhere. Women. |
| 21:12.13 | Skry | point of views, gotta love em |
| 21:12.17 | Skry | :| |
| 21:12.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 21:17.54 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@31.25.18.35) |
| 21:18.06 | Skry | I've long since stopped minding what people say or so, most of "them" miss the big picture completely so I can't possibly relate to anything they have to offer. |
| 21:18.11 | Skry | or something like that |
| 21:22.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: well, this one here been a usual boring linux vs windows flamewar, happening not entirely on accident, but suddenly turning into something philosophical (or almost at least) |
| 21:24.54 | Skry | Mm-m, just the kind of pointless jargon I try to keep away from :) |
| 21:25.54 | Skry | ofc it's good to some argumentation from time to time, if it does not get out of hand so to speak |
| 21:26.02 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: very much likely :) |
| 21:26.13 | Lava_Croft | I think Luke-Jr said it earlier |
| 21:31.09 | Luke-Jr | anyone know how to measure USB hub power (amps?) with a multimeter? |
| 21:36.29 | ccssnet | inline; black cable of multi meter to the power source, red wire to the device to be powered. i think... |
| 21:36.40 | Skry | you own a multimeter, so you must know what it is, and you know what power amps are so you should know already? |
| 21:37.35 | Luke-Jr | Skry: I barely know what it is :O |
| 21:37.51 | Luke-Jr | ccssnet: I don't want to power a device right now, just find out how much is available |
| 21:38.06 | ccssnet | theres no sticker? |
| 21:38.14 | ccssnet | or manual |
| 21:38.16 | Luke-Jr | ccssnet: lol |
| 21:38.27 | Luke-Jr | no, USB hubs provide NO info -.- |
| 21:38.31 | SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: 'you can't' |
| 21:38.32 | ccssnet | ouch |
| 21:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: when did I say some USB hub keeps discharging N900? |
| 21:38.56 | SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: it's complex, and can't be measured simok |
| 21:39.13 | SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: you mean a powered hub? |
| 21:40.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: there's no sane and simple way to find out how much power is available |
| 21:40.15 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: a while ago |
| 21:40.22 | Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 21:40.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: ...since you only could tell from device ceasing to provide power |
| 21:40.33 | Luke-Jr | :/ |
| 21:40.37 | Luke-Jr | what if I short it? |
| 21:40.55 | SpeedEvil | that will generally not tll you much |
| 21:40.59 | ccssnet | short what? your power supply? |
| 21:41.13 | ccssnet | general rule... never cross the 5v+ and 12v+ |
| 21:41.14 | Luke-Jr | would a 60 W lightbulb tell me anything? :/ |
| 21:41.15 | SpeedEvil | read the label on the hub power supply |
| 21:41.18 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 21:41.26 | Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: there is no label |
| 21:41.29 | Luke-Jr | oh that |
| 21:41.30 | ccssnet | or any other +rail such as 3.3v |
| 21:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: hardly I could've stated about some hub's properties, since I don't own more than 2 USB hubs, so couldn't tell anything about the 109732983210876 other models out there |
| 21:41.36 | Luke-Jr | that's combined, not per port |
| 21:41.47 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: from the N900 script |
| 21:42.12 | ShadowJK | Luke-Jr; i think the only useful method would be to have a a vriable load, a current meter, and a volt meter. You slowly increase the load while observing current and volt meter. |
| 21:42.17 | SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: the 'right' way is to ... |
| 21:42.24 | ShadowJK | I imagine one of two things will happen |
| 21:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: bq27200 values are absolute and correct |
| 21:42.33 | SpeedEvil | and measure the point at which it hits 4.5v |
| 21:43.08 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: despite always telling me time-to-empty, it seems to charge |
| 21:43.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's impossible |
| 21:43.33 | ShadowJK | Option a) at some point, the current meter drops to almost 0 all of the sudden. Option b) at some point voltage starts declining. in both cases onset of the event is your limit. |
| 21:44.04 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: c) fire |
| 21:44.16 | ShadowJK | Yah I forgot fire |
| 21:46.10 | Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: multimeters can do that or no? :/ |
| 21:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: look at http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_discharge_learn_log to get an idea what the values look like |
| 21:46.57 | SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: no |
| 21:47.37 | SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: you are trying to measure how much load a matchbox can take. |
| 21:47.53 | Luke-Jr | bah, looks like I don't have a working multimeter anyway |
| 21:47.54 | SpeedEvil | stamping it flat does not tell you much |
| 21:47.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: obviously negative 'mA' values mean 'discharge', as does TTE != 65535 |
| 21:48.06 | SpeedEvil | you need to slowly apply load |
| 21:49.32 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I don't have a log like that tho |
| 21:49.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not my fault |
| 21:50.26 | Luke-Jr | is it one of the mA shown by bq27k-detail2 ? |
| 21:50.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: also note that these values are current to battery, not current from USB |
| 21:51.15 | SpeedEvil | there is no way to measure current from USB |
| 21:51.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, the first one |
| 21:51.22 | SpeedEvil | it can only be guessed |
| 21:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 21:51.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or derived |
| 21:51.36 | Luke-Jr | 0x0D - 0x0C: 6823 NAC Nominal Available Capacity High - Low Byte 3.57 µVh (1) R |
| 21:51.37 | Luke-Jr | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | from a pair of values of current to battery from bq27200, while switching off charging in between the readouts and keeping system load as constant as possible |
| 21:52.37 | SpeedEvil | true |
| 21:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: that's not exactly what you want |
| 21:53.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it also is not 'mA' but 'mAh' |
| 21:53.38 | Luke-Jr | 0x15 - 0x14: 885 AI Average Current High - Low Byte 3.57 µV (1) R |
| 21:53.40 | Luke-Jr | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:54.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, probably that one |
| 21:54.27 | Luke-Jr | but 0x17 - 0x16: 463 TTE Time-to-Empty High - Low Byte Minutes R |
| 21:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes there might be inconsistencies due to sequential readout or whatever |
| 21:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I told you to use bq27200.sh 5 |
| 21:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all a oneshot readout doesn't tell you much anyway |
| 21:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | since those values may change rapidly, some of them |
| 21:56.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need to do some averaging on your own |
| 21:57.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | see e.g first 2 log lines in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_discharge_learn_log |
| 21:58.20 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@athedsl-353742.home.otenet.gr) |
| 21:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | the device been meant to charge at that point in time |
| 21:58.39 | Luke-Jr | hmm |
| 22:00.02 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I don't notice any change in bq27200.sh 5 output when I unplug it :/ |
| 22:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually sign of current is generic, from some of the flags in a status register |
| 22:00.44 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: (no change on unplug) which would strongly suggest that it didn't charge when it been plugged in |
| 22:01.30 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: but I've been charging it this way for a week now… |
| 22:01.32 | *** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97) |
| 22:01.46 | Luke-Jr | and the battery's full……….. oh |
| 22:01.57 | Luke-Jr | I bet BME isn't charging it because it's full -.- |
| 22:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: the charger chip stops charging when battery full, and resumes when battery depleted to ~80% |
| 22:02.27 | Luke-Jr | guess I have to leave it unplugged for a few hours |
| 22:02.37 | Luke-Jr | epic fail |
| 22:02.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | this isn't bme doing this, this is bq24150 native behaviour |
| 22:03.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | bme turns this into one of either constant floating at 4180mV, or 30s recharge cycles every 240s |
| 22:03.48 | Luke-Jr | hm |
| 22:04.13 | Luke-Jr | any way to easily lock the screen on so it discharges faster? <.< |
| 22:04.33 | SpeedEvil | settings, display |
| 22:04.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, I'm doing this by easy brightness applet |
| 22:04.44 | SpeedEvil | oh, yeah |
| 22:05.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | or was it 'simple'? |
| 22:05.20 | Luke-Jr | bah, I have to pick it up to do that :P |
| 22:06.03 | Luke-Jr | Settings->Display only lets me go up to 2 mins |
| 22:06.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | xchat has an option as well |
| 22:06.51 | SpeedEvil | or play a movie in a loop |
| 22:07.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | better idea |
| 22:07.35 | Luke-Jr | hmm |
| 22:07.49 | Luke-Jr | my gentoo partition needs manual fsck :< |
| 22:07.54 | Luke-Jr | I don't think it's ever survived that before |
| 22:07.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: what's your problem? |
| 22:08.07 | Luke-Jr | ? |
| 22:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | re battery and charging |
| 22:08.31 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I don't trust USB hubs/chargers to work as advertised |
| 22:08.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's usually a faster and more direct way to find out about stuff |
| 22:08.48 | Luke-Jr | plus, most don't even advertise useful info |
| 22:09.17 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: I'd like to know my N900 is charging as fast as possible, and that it won't make my RPi unstable |
| 22:09.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you got sysfs nodes for VBUS and D+- short |
| 22:09.52 | SpeedEvil | in general, measure voltage on USB |
| 22:10.06 | Luke-Jr | isn't it amps that matters? |
| 22:10.09 | SpeedEvil | if it's dropping under 4.5, you're overloading |
| 22:10.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 22:10.20 | Luke-Jr | :/ |
| 22:10.26 | SpeedEvil | yes, but you can't measure that |
| 22:10.47 | Luke-Jr | for all I know, N900 could be using 100mA to avoid overloading |
| 22:11.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | figures the guy probing Amperes of mains outlet with a multimeter |
| 22:11.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | he was very upset why the multimeter exploded and tripped the fuse |
| 22:12.28 | SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: lsusb -v will tell you the configured current - on the PC side |
| 22:12.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: well, those 100mA are what bme is supposed to do, on deaf hosts or fastchargers without D+- short |
| 22:12.44 | SpeedEvil | wait, you have this plugged into a raspberry pi? |
| 22:12.54 | Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: that's the plan |
| 22:13.03 | SpeedEvil | through a powered hub? |
| 22:13.21 | Luke-Jr | well, RPi says no PC connectivity allowed, so plan there was just hte wall charger :p |
| 22:14.09 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning plugging a n900 into a r-pi USB port |
| 22:14.19 | Luke-Jr | oh, no |
| 22:14.23 | Luke-Jr | two separate concerns |
| 22:14.33 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah (~Dibblah@host86-169-205-158.range86-169.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:14.37 | Luke-Jr | I want to charge both N900 and run RPi off a wall charger |
| 22:15.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | then the wallcharger should provide 2A or more |
| 22:15.03 | Luke-Jr | the one I have is supposedly 2A total across 4 ports |
| 22:15.14 | Luke-Jr | but I want to be sure I'm getting the full 1A at each port, if I use two |
| 22:15.30 | *** join/#maemo peterx (~peterx@pc-246-3-47-190.cm.vtr.net) |
| 22:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd simply assume that |
| 22:16.03 | Luke-Jr | don't a lot of wall chargers limit to 500mA per port? |
| 22:16.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | they won't put cruft birdseed on the wallcharger PCB just to mess things up |
| 22:16.28 | Luke-Jr | ? |
| 22:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, that's why those are wallchargers |
| 22:16.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | they can do more than 500 |
| 22:16.50 | Luke-Jr | 2A total / 4 ports = 500 mA per port if all ports used |
| 22:16.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | nod |
| 22:17.06 | Luke-Jr | so it was clearly designed to only do 500 mA per port under normal use |
| 22:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the wallcharger won't implement some circuitry to enforce that |
| 22:18.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't trust in my intuition, open it up and check for yourself |
| 22:18.06 | Luke-Jr | but no way to verify I get 1A before I fry the RPi? :/ |
| 22:18.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | fry RPi?? |
| 22:18.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | how? |
| 22:18.37 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: won't it break if I give it too little power? |
| 22:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah |
| 22:18.54 | Luke-Jr | oh |
| 22:19.04 | Luke-Jr | ok, the "assume and find out" approach sounds much nicer then |
| 22:19.06 | Luke-Jr | lol |
| 22:19.31 | Luke-Jr | I need to open it up to so the D-+ short anyway |
| 22:19.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 22:20.04 | Luke-Jr | unless I can do it in the external connector part |
| 22:20.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll see all 4 ports sharing a common VBUS and GND rail |
| 22:21.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe with a fuse each, but that fuse is like 1..2A then |
| 22:21.14 | peterx | Ok, I did the most stupid thing ever: I accidentally locked my n900 with some lock code I set years ago. Is there a way to read the flash via usb (and not only write), or install some boot loader that boots from the sd card such that I can change or brute force the lock code from within the device? |
| 22:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: alas not, unless you still can connect via WLAN and ssh |
| 22:22.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can boot a rescueOS though |
| 22:22.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then "brute-force" the lockcode with john the ripper |
| 22:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rescueos |
| 22:22.49 | infobot | i guess rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ |
| 22:22.51 | peterx | DocScrutinizer05: yeah' that's what I thought |
| 22:23.38 | merlin1991 | peterx: another way would be to flash u-boot and boot ie nemo |
| 22:23.43 | peterx | ah, that's the purpose of the "load" function of the flasher |
| 22:23.52 | merlin1991 | it can read the appropriate flash parts aswell |
| 22:24.11 | *** join/#maemo tchell_ (~mitchell@an.alo.gy) |
| 22:24.12 | merlin1991 | and you could just flash nemo onto a sd and load the nemo kernel with flasher |
| 22:24.19 | merlin1991 | thus leaving no trace of your recovery |
| 22:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75369 |
| 22:25.25 | tchell_ | Phone asks me for lock code, says code accepted, but then cycled endlessly on bouncy dots without ever finishing booting. Any hints? |
| 22:25.54 | peterx | DocScrutinizer05: wow, that's great, thanks a lot! |
| 22:25.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: it *might* just do a fsck.ext3 |
| 22:26.06 | peterx | and merlin, too |
| 22:26.45 | merlin1991 | btw I actually did the use nemo sd + load nemo kernel to recover my sisters n900 lockcode :P |
| 22:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 |
| 22:27.30 | tchell_ | DocScrutinizer05: for 40 minutes? |
| 22:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsck can take forever |
| 22:27.58 | merlin1991 | fsck can make things worse ;) |
| 22:28.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's entirely unclear how to check if it's really fsck or not |
| 22:28.17 | merlin1991 | because maemo bootscripts are fsckd ;) |
| 22:28.28 | tchell_ | hmm. |
| 22:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, I ranted about that some days ago |
| 22:28.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'll get a fix for it eventually in CSSU |
| 22:28.58 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: gotta be like 2 weeks by now |
| 22:29.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible |
| 22:29.13 | peterx | by the way, can I use flasher-3.12 instead of flasher-3.5? |
| 22:29.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: nope |
| 22:29.41 | merlin1991 | peterx: only works for harmattan |
| 22:30.21 | peterx | ok |
| 22:30.28 | tchell_ | I wish I could ssh into it and see whether it was doing anything. |
| 22:30.42 | MrPingu | can we boot rescue OS through U-boot so we don't need the flasher? |
| 22:30.47 | peterx | thanks |
| 22:30.53 | merlin1991 | MrPingu: yep |
| 22:31.15 | MrPingu | merlin1991: Thanks, just came to my mind |
| 22:31.46 | merlin1991 | MrPingu: there is a post on tmo from Pali for a proper bootmenu entry |
| 22:31.53 | MrPingu | Sounds like an awesome method for rescue next to BM |
| 22:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders if we could boot rescueOS even without proper menu entry in uboot-menu, just by entering the right magic spells to tell uboot where to boot |
| 22:33.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/where/what/. |
| 22:33.12 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: yep you can just enter what is part of the entry in the u-boot console |
| 22:33.17 | merlin1991 | yields the same result |
| 22:33.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much |
| 22:34.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | modulo the keyboard doesn't allow numbers and special chars like / ? |
| 22:34.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | or was that the useless mer shell? |
| 22:34.50 | merlin1991 | afaik the keyboard is the en layout, you should be able to guess everything |
| 22:35.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | or meego shell |
| 22:35.38 | merlin1991 | meego shell had maliit with the | symbol hidden 3 clicks away |
| 22:35.44 | merlin1991 | pfehw |
| 22:36.25 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I added code to uboot for n900 english layout |
| 22:37.12 | Pali | + additional keys fn+up, fn+down, fn+left and fn+right |
| 22:38.00 | peterx | hm, rescueos comes up, but the /dev-devices seem to be missing. will try again in half an hour |
| 22:38.10 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-172-250.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:39.39 | MrPingu | merlin1991: thanks, found it |
| 22:44.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: dev devices might need some module loading |
| 22:44.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno how rescueOS is configured |
| 22:45.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I'd assume usually it should grant access to maemo root and MyDocs OOTB, even mounted |
| 22:45.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask NIN101 |
| 22:45.50 | NIN101 | /dev/ should be there including the device nodes |
| 22:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 22:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi NIN101 |
| 22:46.06 | NIN101 | hi |
| 22:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | great you're always here when we need you |
| 22:46.59 | NIN101 | I am also here when you don't need me :P |
| 22:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | hihihi |
| 22:47.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | no worries, anyway great you're always here :-) |
| 22:47.40 | *** join/#maemo ALo (~alogeno@187.Red-79-152-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:48.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | while pali already vanished before I could thank him for special keys in uboot ;-) |
| 22:49.31 | MrPingu | I'm going for a sleep |
| 22:49.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: what are the dev nodes you're missing? |
| 22:49.48 | MrPingu | g'night peepz |
| 22:49.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | night MrPingu |
| 22:51.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: anyway, a fsck is known to take several hours, if you want to give it this long. |
| 22:52.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: otherwise reflash is your option, probably |
| 22:53.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | just hopes the weirdos have considered to already crank up bme before starting fsck, in initscripts |
| 22:54.22 | tchell_ | what's bme? |
| 22:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | tchell_: and yeah, you probably should give bme a chance to power the device and hook it up to fastchargger |
| 22:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | since shutdown due to depleted battery during fsck is the least thing you'd want to see |
| 22:55.33 | tchell_ | well, I did plug it in |
| 22:55.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | good |
| 22:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it's up to you now to either sit it out, or eventually lose patience and resort to more powerful and invasive measures like reflash or rescueOS |
| 22:57.10 | tchell_ | ok. |
| 22:57.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/sit it out/walk it off/ |
| 22:58.09 | tchell_ | :) |
| 22:58.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I witnessed one guy running a fsck on a similar embedded device for 3 days |
| 22:58.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | it actually finished eventually |
| 22:58.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas it wasn't able to fix all errors in the fs ;-P |
| 22:59.03 | Skry | :) |
| 23:00.51 | peterx | NIN101: mmcblk* is missing |
| 23:01.17 | NIN101 | well, dunno. |
| 23:01.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | means "should be there"? |
| 23:01.42 | NIN101 | means should be there and was never reported to be mising |
| 23:02.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | could be missing on eMMC completely fsckd up |
| 23:02.22 | NIN101 | maybe |
| 23:02.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | otoh, doesn't rescueOS boot from uSD? |
| 23:02.55 | NIN101 | it's an initrd. |
| 23:03.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 23:03.10 | peterx | is there a native pipe symbol in the us keyboard layout? (i have german printed) |
| 23:03.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it has dmesg? |
| 23:03.22 | NIN101 | sure |
| 23:03.36 | *** join/#maemo kimitake (~kimitake@75.0.177.224) |
| 23:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: alas not |
| 23:04.32 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@89.128.139.188) |
| 23:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | peterx: though I dunno which kbd map NIN101 used in rescueOS |
| 23:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | or if the vkbd for symbols is supported |
| 23:05.34 | NIN101 | you can use the blue arrow |
| 23:05.54 | peterx | ok, mount root worked |
| 23:06.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 23:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's that, without /dev/mmcblk* ? |
| 23:06.24 | NIN101 | it's NAND |
| 23:06.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | err mtd yeah |
| 23:06.59 | peterx | yeah, there is some ubi magic going on |
| 23:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, mounting ubi is rather black magic |
| 23:07.32 | Hurrian | peterx, ubiattach ;) |
| 23:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: no scripted support for that in rescueOS? |
| 23:08.13 | NIN101 | there is a script that does that |
| 23:08.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much |
| 23:08.22 | peterx | ah, found the pipe symbol, it's where the immensely useful euro-symbol is on the german layout... |
| 23:08.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey :-) |
| 23:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so NIN101 used a better than standard keymap |
| 23:09.25 | NIN101 | yeah the keyboard layout situation is quite uncool in rescueos but often you just want to telnet in via usb networking or so. |
| 23:09.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | since US layout has &GBP there |
| 23:10.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I wouldn't even know where to find that on my german kbd) |
| 23:10.24 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: my N900 has GBP, USD, and EUR symbols :( |
| 23:10.48 | NIN101 | afaik the german kbd doesn't have the pipei symbl |
| 23:11.06 | Hurrian | I have the GBP and EUR mapped to curly braces. |
| 23:11.17 | peterx | dmesg shows "mtdoops: mtd device (mtddev=name/number) must be supplied" |
| 23:11.37 | Hurrian | peterx, ignore that, that's just for the mtdoops (log on mtd2) driver |
| 23:12.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtdoops is sth you won't want to use on rescueOS |
| 23:12.06 | peterx | furthermore: "Creating 6 MTD partitions on "omap2-onenand"' |
| 23:12.07 | peterx | ' |
| 23:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds correct |
| 23:12.28 | peterx | but that also seems to be something different, isn't it? |
| 23:12.42 | Hurrian | mhm, it's just listing the available MTD partitions into the map |
| 23:12.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | different than what? |
| 23:12.55 | peterx | different than the partition I need |
| 23:13.06 | peterx | the one that stores the lock key |
| 23:13.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | partition 4 is rootfs iirc |
| 23:13.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, that's partition 1 |
| 23:13.32 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, it's partition 6, MTD5 that stores rootfs |
| 23:13.46 | *** join/#maemo dafox__ (~dafox@ip3e8380c8.speed.planet.nl) |
| 23:13.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: right |
| 23:14.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway CAL it partition 1 |
| 23:14.11 | Hurrian | partition 4 is kernel (MTD3), and MTD4 is the ~2MB initfs space that's unused |
| 23:14.41 | peterx | ok, wait a moment |
| 23:14.54 | peterx | I just successfully mounted MTD5 via ubi |
| 23:15.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | well mtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config" |
| 23:15.12 | peterx | does that mean that I can similarly access the partition that stores the lock code? |
| 23:16.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 >> echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): << |
| 23:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mtd1 is what you need, you don't even mount it |
| 23:17.07 | peterx | argh |
| 23:17.09 | peterx | sorry |
| 23:17.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | no worries |
| 23:17.39 | peterx | I thought I needed /dev/mmcblk* because that is what mass-storage-enable.sh tried to access |
| 23:17.51 | peterx | ok, so let's try to retrieve the lock code |
| 23:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | first you retrieve the hash |
| 23:18.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | or encrypted key |
| 23:18.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you rip that with john |
| 23:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | on your PC |
| 23:19.02 | peterx | yeah |
| 23:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless your "encrypted" key was "12345" which stands for "12345" ;-P |
| 23:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess you already made sure that's not your lockcode |
| 23:20.54 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@28.66.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 23:24.26 | peterx | yeah, I tried 12345 not only once ;-) |
| 23:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw if any of you has installed proper tools, you should use >> echo root:$(busybox grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): << instead |
| 23:24.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | as gnugrep does barf up on the binary file |
| 23:24.50 | peterx | YEAH! |
| 23:25.07 | peterx | it worked :-) |
| 23:25.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | already ripped? |
| 23:25.22 | peterx | john did it in less than a second |
| 23:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, quite usual |
| 23:25.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 23:26.03 | peterx | thank you all! |
| 23:26.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | pleased to help |
| 23:26.20 | peterx | now I'll install BackupMenu |
| 23:26.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | good plan |
| 23:27.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, for the devicelock it wouldn't have helped much |
| 23:27.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you get a working shell in BM |
| 23:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | suspects you need KP for that to work |
| 23:28.44 | peterx | ok, but nevertheless, I do not really trust the built-in backup solution |
| 23:28.59 | peterx | I would rather read the device files and pipe them into bup |
| 23:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and fully justified so |
| 23:30.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | BM does real backups, not like the freaky builtin backup app that actually only stores some config files and a list of installed apps |
| 23:30.49 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~cacao@cev75-4-82-247-118-210.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:31.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I recently learnt BM needs proper date and time set on N900, for restore to not fail epically |
| 23:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | just for a sidenote |
| 23:33.57 | *** join/#maemo ALo (~alogeno@243.Red-217-125-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:36.54 | peterx | DocScrutinizer05: ah, good to know |
| 23:37.36 | Skry | actually, the issue doc speaks of was not because of tar complaining about timestamps |
| 23:38.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: so please elaborate |
| 23:38.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought it was |
| 23:38.38 | Skry | didnt follow the discussion but apparently he had different kernel in backup than what was installed |
| 23:38.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 23:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the tar was only warnings |
| 23:39.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 23:39.18 | Skry | so issue was missing modules i presume |
| 23:39.28 | Skry | yes they were only warnings nothing more |
| 23:39.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks a lot |
| 23:40.34 | Skry | np. imo that information should probably be in some wiki or something as a note if it already isn't. |
| 23:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 23:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm |
| 23:41.28 | infobot | well, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 |
| 23:41.30 | nox- | so a backup is useless if you dont also backup the exact same kernel package? |
| 23:42.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, if you restore kernel modules that don't match the kernel you got installed, you're obviously doomed |
| 23:42.27 | nox- | ah it backs up modules but not the kernel itself? |
| 23:42.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | since BM doesn't backup kernels (yet?) |
| 23:42.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:42.45 | nox- | hm |
| 23:43.07 | nox- | that sounds like an useful missing feature then... |
| 23:43.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ... you're supposed to flash a fresh maemo rootfs plus the kernel matching your modules in the backup on top |
| 23:43.42 | nox- | right so you have to backup that kernel too |
| 23:44.13 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 23:44.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: we already 'inveted' how to backup and flash back the kernel and other mtd partitons as a complete image, only missing to implement that into BM |
| 23:44.31 | Hurrian | but the problem is Backupmenu doesn't have "flasher" installed |
| 23:44.33 | nox- | i c |
| 23:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: mtdutils |
| 23:45.03 | Hurrian | ah |
| 23:45.32 | nox- | could one tell restore to skip modules too? |
| 23:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, probably |
| 23:45.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | *could* |
| 23:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if you actually can |
| 23:45.59 | nox- | might also make sense... |
| 23:46.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, sure |
| 23:47.28 | nox- | hm are the backups just tarballs that you could remove the modules from on a pc? |
| 23:47.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 23:47.51 | nox- | ok good to know... |
| 23:49.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should keep them on the uSD for that reason |
| 23:49.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 23:50.01 | nox- | *nod* |
| 23:57.13 | peterx | is there a lock and wipe application for maemo? |
| 23:57.48 | SpeedEvil | lock and wipe? |
| 23:58.20 | peterx | lock and wipe on x failed attempts to unlock |
| 23:58.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | remote? |
| 23:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 23:59.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | not afaik |
| 23:59.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you could set up some fake thing for that easily |