| 00:08.58 | avtobiff | hi! i wonder how to style/theme a GtkButton and GtkToggleButton. they just appear flat when all the other apps have a 3d-ish effect to them. i have found set_style() but it does not do anything... |
| 00:15.19 | ShadowJK | I have no clue, really no clue, but my guess would be that there are some special hildon equivalents of GtkButton and GtkToggleButton that gives you the hildon styling |
| 00:18.44 | ShadowJK | and I'm saying that mostly because when you run pure gtk/gnome apps on maemo, they look pretty unstyled |
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| 00:29.19 | avtobiff | ShadowJK, maybe everything else is qt? |
| 00:29.31 | ShadowJK | No. |
| 00:29.34 | avtobiff | ok |
| 00:29.46 | ShadowJK | Most things in Maemo5 is Hildon |
| 00:29.49 | avtobiff | i tried HildonButton without any luck :( |
| 00:29.55 | avtobiff | ah yes of course |
| 00:30.02 | ShadowJK | The time/date setting thing at boot is clutter :) |
| 00:31.05 | avtobiff | ok |
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| 01:52.37 | stardiviner | My N900 always need to set time and date after restart phone. How to solve this problem ? |
| 01:52.58 | ShadowJK | It's almost impossible. |
| 01:53.36 | ShadowJK | You'd need to replace the backup battery, but that requires a full disassembly and expert soldering skills |
| 01:55.34 | SpeedEvil | or software |
| 01:55.45 | stardiviner | ShadowJK: Is it normal for N900 that the time will be changed after change battery ? |
| 01:55.54 | SpeedEvil | netdate first |
| 01:56.14 | SpeedEvil | stardiviner: no. however, once the backup battery fails, yes |
| 01:56.21 | stardiviner | SpeedEvil: I know a program "Sync Clock Now", but it can now set time correctly in my case. |
| 01:56.23 | SpeedEvil | and it tends to fail early |
| 01:56.47 | SpeedEvil | does it set it from network, or cell operator? |
| 01:56.59 | stardiviner | Oh .... It's really hateful. I almost change battery once a day. |
| 01:57.11 | SpeedEvil | openntpdate I think was the package I used |
| 01:57.13 | stardiviner | SpeedEvil: from wifi |
| 01:57.20 | ShadowJK | I change battery once a year, and reboot once every 4 months :/ |
| 01:57.41 | SpeedEvil | you tell it a NTP server, and leave it |
| 01:58.07 | ShadowJK | My operator does send me time updates, so even if just tap away the time screen, the correct time arrives when I connect to 3g data :/ |
| 01:58.14 | stardiviner | ShadowJK: no, I mean, I have two batteries, I shift them, after one is used up. and another is charged. |
| 01:58.58 | stardiviner | SpeedEvil: I have not tried that openntpdate package, I should try later. |
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| 02:02.29 | ShadowJK | Yeah there's only been a few occasions over the years when I've ran out of power |
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| 02:43.35 | iluminator105 | is there anyway i can downgrade cssu testing camera, its too slow and acts funky |
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| 03:28.31 | Hurrian | you can apt-get install=camera-ui of a certain version |
| 03:28.34 | Hurrian | lemme check |
| 03:28.49 | Hurrian | apt-get install --reinstall camera-ui=1.1.29.1+0m5 |
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| 03:53.25 | iluminator105 | Hurrian, thanks i will try it out in a few minutes |
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| 06:00.57 | iluminator105 | Hurrian, worked like a charm |
| 06:01.22 | iluminator105 | hurrian did you install thumb? |
| 06:03.14 | iluminator105 | i am about to install thumb but i am confused by this http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU-thumb_toolchain_setup_%28gcc4.7.2-linaro%29 this is for 32bit though |
| 06:08.15 | iluminator105 | can someone help me install thumb? |
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| 06:45.01 | kerio | iluminator105: that's the toolchain, you don't need it as a user |
| 06:45.27 | kerio | stardiviner: change the batteries *quickly* |
| 06:45.46 | kerio | as in, try to leave the n900 unpowered for at most a second |
| 06:47.04 | stardiviner | kerio: I tried that, no matter how quick I change, It always time reset randomly. |
| 06:48.19 | stardiviner | kerio: and now, I'm updating FAM catalogs, already 1.5 hours. really .... |
| 06:49.20 | iluminator105 | kerio is there a auto installer for thumb |
| 06:50.26 | kerio | ~cssu-thumb |
| 06:50.26 | infobot | hmm... cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597 |
| 06:50.32 | kerio | stardiviner: what the fuck |
| 06:50.38 | kerio | no, that's not normal |
| 06:51.11 | stardiviner | kerio: yes, I know, very weird, So I'm trying to update from terminal console. command : apt-get update. |
| 06:51.56 | stardiviner | kerio: GPG key expired .... three errors. |
| 06:52.11 | stardiviner | on downloads.maemo.com |
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| 06:54.08 | GGon | damnit |
| 06:54.14 | GGon | i sure wish my damn n900 would work on att 3G |
| 06:54.17 | GGon | heh |
| 06:54.24 | GGon | this week i'm getting an e7.. hell with it |
| 06:54.47 | GGon | i want a qwerty and am so sick of every single phone attaching your life to google, ms, or apple |
| 06:54.52 | kerio | stardiviner: it's not an error, it's a warning |
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| 06:55.51 | stardiviner | kerio: What should I do ? |
| 06:55.58 | kerio | stardiviner: for instance, stop using fapman |
| 06:56.04 | kerio | it's kinda awful |
| 06:56.19 | kerio | it's probably choking up on that expired key |
| 06:56.27 | stardiviner | kerio: use N900 default HAM ? but I found it is very slow. |
| 06:56.32 | kerio | it is |
| 06:56.45 | kerio | use apt, if you think you know what you're doing |
| 06:57.17 | stardiviner | kerio: ok, then what about aptitude ? |
| 06:57.30 | kerio | it should be about as fast as apt |
| 06:57.32 | stardiviner | kerio: Is it good on N900 ? |
| 06:57.47 | kerio | idk |
| 06:58.01 | stardiviner | kerio: idk ? what's that ? |
| 06:58.08 | kerio | I Don't Know |
| 06:58.25 | stardiviner | kerio: ??? You said idk |
| 06:58.48 | iluminator105 | i started the thumb install how long does it take |
| 06:58.56 | kerio | iluminator105: a bit |
| 06:59.04 | kerio | keep your phone charged :) |
| 06:59.16 | iluminator105 | e7??? |
| 06:59.47 | iluminator105 | kerio it is at full charge should i plug in the charger too |
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| 07:00.33 | kerio | iluminator105: well, it's unlikely to drop too much |
| 07:00.34 | kerio | but still |
| 07:01.28 | iluminator105 | GGon, can e7 be hacked to install maemo? |
| 07:05.16 | kerio | iluminator105: nope |
| 07:05.24 | kerio | maemo fremantle runs on the n900 |
| 07:05.26 | kerio | and that's it |
| 07:05.50 | iluminator105 | how do you know thumb is installed? |
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| 07:07.51 | kerio | iluminator105: it reboots at the end |
| 07:07.57 | kerio | i assume HAM is doing its thing now |
| 07:08.27 | iluminator105 | ham said thumb is installed but didnt reboot |
| 07:09.31 | kerio | iluminator105: you only installed the cssu enabler |
| 07:09.41 | kerio | launch it from the menu |
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| 07:11.07 | kerio | and READ THE INSTRUCTIONS |
| 07:12.26 | iluminator105 | is there a commandline command that will tell you |
| 07:15.04 | iluminator105 | ham said it installed how can i install it from menu i had cssu testing installed before |
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| 07:16.28 | kerio | iluminator105: oh |
| 07:16.36 | kerio | then you have to do a system update |
| 07:19.00 | iluminator105 | does uname differ after install |
| 07:20.51 | kerio | no |
| 07:20.59 | kerio | but you have "thumb" in Settings->About CSSU |
| 07:21.01 | kerio | or something |
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| 07:23.17 | iluminator105 | it says cssu meta package not installed? |
| 07:26.42 | GGon | iluminator105: i wish |
| 07:26.45 | GGon | heh |
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| 07:26.55 | kerio | iluminator105: eeeew |
| 07:26.56 | kerio | :s |
| 07:27.04 | kerio | iluminator105: sudo apt-get install mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 07:27.17 | kerio | wtf have you done to your n900 |
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| 07:31.06 | iluminator105 | good thing i didnt restart if i did i would been f---ed |
| 07:34.09 | iluminator105 | thumb installing for actual this time around |
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| 07:37.24 | iluminator105 | didnt restart this time either? |
| 07:41.54 | kerio | reboot |
| 07:41.59 | kerio | i assume apt-get installed a bunch of stuff |
| 07:45.25 | iluminator105 | reboot its a success although i dont feel it be particularly any faster though |
| 07:47.26 | iluminator105 | is anyone using maemeemo how is it? |
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| 08:05.44 | zsolt | hi!looking for a solution to control my pc with my n900's accelerometer,but bluemaemo from extras devel uninstallable.any substitution?thanks |
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| 08:25.20 | iluminator105 | how do you check free space in maemo i usually df -l but thats not workin |
| 08:31.53 | iluminator105 | isbnkeeper sucks is there a similar program like that that is better |
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| 08:58.50 | DocScrutinizer06 | ((<kerio> stardiviner: change the batteries *quickly*)) my battery changing method leaves device unpowered for only like 0.1s |
| 08:59.02 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: my old one too |
| 08:59.22 | kerio | lift the battery a bit, start sliding the new battery below, remove the old one and shove the new one in |
| 09:00.41 | stardiviner | kerio: DocScrutinizer06 But I do not know when the system is shutdown, The LED indicator light will closed before system is totally shutdown. |
| 09:01.01 | DocScrutinizer06 | there's a trick |
| 09:01.10 | DocScrutinizer06 | push power button |
| 09:01.34 | DocScrutinizer06 | when it's not ramping up white LED, it's not yet powered down completely |
| 09:01.50 | DocScrutinizer06 | *short* ! (< 2s) |
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| 09:03.05 | iluminator105 | not funny |
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| 09:07.52 | DocScrutinizer06 | not a joke |
| 09:09.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: we really need a better handling of the led, turning it off as the *last* action before shutdown |
| 09:10.52 | DocScrutinizer06 | meh, really complicated |
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| 09:12.22 | akls | how can I right click in easy debian?\ |
| 09:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we *might* get a patch into KP |
| 09:17.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: how's about a totally faked shutdown signalling? Let LP5523 do a oneshot white-LED program, that keeps LED powered for another 10s before shutting it down |
| 09:18.07 | kerio | but that would be cheeeeeeeeeating |
| 09:18.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | occasionally we could retrigger it in init 0 |
| 09:18.47 | kerio | and what if it hasn't shat down (sic!) in 10 seconds? |
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| 09:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | occasionally we could retrigger it in init 0 |
| 09:19.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | shutdown tearing down a lot of processes |
| 09:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it could as well occasionally retrigger LED |
| 09:20.37 | kerio | that's about what i said |
| 09:20.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | we just need to guarantee that kernel will shutdown in <10s after init0 'loop' ended |
| 09:20.43 | kerio | except that we turn it off right before closing |
| 09:21.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: there's no more proper process to do that, at that time |
| 09:21.55 | kerio | sure there is, the kernel :) |
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| 09:22.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-10-20 11:12:30] <DocScrutinizer05> we *might* get a patch into KP |
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| 09:23.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | TBH I have NFC how very late teardown of a linux system works |
| 09:23.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 09:23.45 | kerio | Pali: is there some place to put a "shut down *all* the leds! _ò/" command that gets executed right before the shutdown? |
| 09:24.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | too generic a question |
| 09:24.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: what's the last function call in shutdown? |
| 09:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and who's doing that function-call |
| 09:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | is it like "1 init does execve() to /sbin/killmeforgood, which throws the masterswitch and never returns"? |
| 09:26.17 | Pali | put upstart script to /etc/event.d/ and add "start on shutdown" |
| 09:26.45 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ill-putted, execve() never returns :) |
| 09:26.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 09:26.59 | iluminator105 | is queen bee widget a malware? |
| 09:27.10 | kerio | ...wat? D: |
| 09:27.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | quenn beecon? nah! |
| 09:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | queen beecon? |
| 09:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | not afaik |
| 09:29.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody with decent kernel / system knowledge around? c'mon, which process shuts down power in a linux? |
| 09:30.13 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i suppose we're even lucky something *does* shut down power |
| 09:30.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | (hint: printf("the system is beeing powered down now...") |
| 09:30.26 | kerio | my sheevaplug stays powered, i have to powercycle it or hit the reset button to start it again |
| 09:30.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | suspects apmd |
| 09:30.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | or acpid |
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| 09:32.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it can't be something with a "d" |
| 09:32.11 | kerio | everything is shut down there |
| 09:34.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed the *d are not taking an active role in shutdown |
| 09:34.27 | Pali | execve *can* returns |
| 09:34.34 | Pali | and then set errno |
| 09:34.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd inclined to think it's indeed kernel itself that does the main powerswitch toggling |
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| 09:36.26 | kerio | Pali: i assumed the call was successful |
| 09:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: what is kernel supposed to do when init process quits? |
| 09:36.50 | Pali | when init quit, then kernel panic |
| 09:36.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh |
| 09:37.31 | Pali | I think it should call shutdown system call (which turn off device) |
| 09:37.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a system call for that? so here we are |
| 09:42.31 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, halt/poweroff/shutdown/reboot/... with correct param calling that system call |
| 09:42.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, they all just call systemd ;-P |
| 09:43.09 | Pali | no systemd, but upstart :-) |
| 09:43.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh wait, maemo not yet completely poetterized |
| 09:44.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I just went from man shutdown to man systemd, on my desktop machine) |
| 09:44.07 | Pali | but when kernel shuting down it deregistring all devices |
| 09:44.27 | Pali | so you should add needed hook to kernel driver to do something |
| 09:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | (then puked a little, seeing dbus parameters for systemd, and "Author: Lennart Poettering" |
| 09:44.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ) |
| 09:45.00 | Pali | who is going to fork udev? |
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| 09:45.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | we? |
| 09:45.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | or fork Poettering (treat him with forks) |
| 09:46.26 | Pali | no need :-) |
| 09:46.27 | Pali | http://bbs.archbang.org/viewtopic.php?pid=17877 |
| 09:46.37 | Pali | https://bitbucket.org/braindamaged/udev |
| 09:47.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | lennax - "niiiiice" (or actually "EEEEEEEEK!") |
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| 09:54.21 | kerio | hi iDont ^_^ |
| 09:55.18 | jaska | yeah |
| 09:55.26 | jaska | poettering needs to be beaten with some kitchen utensils |
| 10:00.36 | freemangordon | ShadowJK, vi__ : AIUI ramzswap bypasses blkdev queue by mmapping /dev/... backing swap device. Maybe that is why we have awful performance once backing swap is hit |
| 10:00.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: indeed, just it's some years too late. should've happened around the time when he invented PA |
| 10:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~poettering |
| 10:00.53 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' |
| 10:04.37 | jaska | half the time i call him potheadring as the exact spelling escapes me |
| 10:05.01 | jaska | i guess actual potheads might find that insulting |
| 10:05.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 10:15.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | added a new bookmark folder "systemd/udev" just next to my "ALSA" folder |
| 10:15.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>"Let's just switch to any crazy idea Lennart can come up with." - Patrick Volkerding<< |
| 10:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I call bad luck: https://github.com/lennax |
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| 10:22.18 | Skry | mm, systemd is great. |
| 10:22.43 | iDont | kerio: hi! |
| 10:22.52 | iDont | was afk for a while |
| 10:25.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=236 LOL! applause! YEAH! |
| 10:26.32 | Skry | hahah :D |
| 10:27.47 | kerio | it's especially funny because those two points are incredibly valid |
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| 10:40.23 | vi__ | akls: ~vi-kbd |
| 10:40.46 | vi__ | Y U NO WORK?? |
| 10:40.52 | vi__ | ~vi-kbd |
| 10:40.52 | infobot | somebody said vi-kbd was http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping |
| 10:41.28 | vi__ | Skry: did you get super mod to work? |
| 10:43.29 | vi__ | kerio: apt remove osso-startup-wizard to get rid of the annoying time setter thing. |
| 10:43.47 | vi__ | obviously you still have to set the clock. |
| 10:45.28 | vi__ | what would be good would be a dialog that would remember at least the year and 12/24h clock. This dialog would let you quickly set the time by typing in some numbers instead of fighting with the stupid hildon clockface thing. |
| 10:46.13 | vi__ | or perhaps even give you 2 extra buttons. 1. use gps to get the time and set it. |
| 10:46.31 | vi__ | 2. use the internet to get the time and set it. |
| 10:47.31 | vi__ | osso-startup-wizard can go suck a fuck. The way it replaces RX-51 file and some various directories in /usr/share. |
| 10:47.54 | vi__ | I have no idead where it keeps its backups of these files. |
| 10:49.00 | kerio | vi__: gps won't work at all, unless you set up the time somewhat correctly |
| 10:49.15 | kerio | and you need the network anyway |
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| 10:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: systemd is ~poettering, it obviously tries to redefine large parts of how a sane system boot is supposed to work, obsoleteting and neglecting purpose of such things like init s (singleuser), and the true purpose of /usr which is *meant* to allow a system to boot without it being mounted (for all who might got confused: usr never been rekater to "user", it's "unix shareable resources" or sth like that) |
| 10:54.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 10:54.54 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
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| 10:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically poettering argues that systems like N900 are no longer supported by contemporary linuxd |
| 10:57.02 | *** part/#maemo Chewtoy (~Chewtoy@s213-103-194-71.cust.tele2.se) |
| 10:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | besides the fact that the anti-point 2 >>Lennart Poettering is an asshole.<< seems pretty correct to me |
| 10:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is no good anti-point of this sracastic post, but nevertheless it doesn't invalidate why systemd is broken by concept |
| 10:59.05 | Vanadis | DocScrutinizer05, why don't you send him a patch? |
| 10:59.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | a patch? |
| 10:59.17 | jaska | a cyanide patch |
| 10:59.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | patch for what? |
| 10:59.24 | Vanadis | for everything |
| 10:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: yeah |
| 10:59.36 | Vanadis | srsly, you get systemd for free, you get it COMPLETELY for free. |
| 10:59.46 | jaska | thats like saying you get aids for free |
| 11:00.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also get dioxin waste for free, hell they even pay me to take it |
| 11:00.37 | Vanadis | Did you guys srsly just compare aids/toxic waste with systemd? |
| 11:00.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 11:00.58 | Vanadis | nah, just trolling and gotta go :3 |
| 11:01.03 | Vanadis | have fun |
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| 11:05.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the original unix architect put quite a considerable amount of thought into general system architecture - /usr being part of that - and now fools like Poettering rush all over it, don't grok what it's meant for or what's the potential benefits, neither they grok how their very special but kinda niche system property requirements could get covered by this very comprehensive system architecture, and thus they wreck it for the perceived " |
| 11:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | modern" and "much better cruft-free" abominations of their own invention |
| 11:05.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/architect/architects/ |
| 11:06.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 11:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: uptime |
| 11:06.41 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 11:07.04 | kerio | vi__: do you have a good one-shot ntp client handy? |
| 11:07.25 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you too |
| 11:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | openntpd -$right-parameter |
| 11:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's supposed to replace ntpdate/ntptime, just it doesn't allow to _only_ print date from ntp server _without_ same time setting systemclock |
| 11:08.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm missing this feature of original ntpdate very much |
| 11:08.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: sadly, the "openntpd" on maemo.org seems to not be openntpd at all |
| 11:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 11:09.43 | kerio | http://maemo.org/packages/view/openntpd/ |
| 11:09.46 | Skry | yeah, well, good luck booting without /usr be it sysvinit or systemd. systemd also has concepts of something similar to runlevels. |
| 11:10.07 | kerio | Skry: the **whole point** of /usr is to be able to boot without it |
| 11:10.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 11:10.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ntpd --help |
| 11:10.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ntpd: invalid option -- - |
| 11:10.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | usage: ntpd [-dSs] [-f file] |
| 11:10.16 | kerio | or, rather, to get everything you need to mount /usr outside of it |
| 11:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: actually you're supposed to be able to run init s with a corrupted /usr |
| 11:11.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | or no /usr at all |
| 11:11.33 | kerio | hm, that too |
| 11:12.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | if any of those retards ever had serviced a corrupted/broken unix server, they'd have knowns what /usr is menat for |
| 11:13.19 | kerio | but those problems only happened when there was no journaling! they're fixed now! |
| 11:13.23 | kerio | /s |
| 11:14.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the undeniable fact that nowadays a lot of "system integrators" like Nokia have NFC about how to handle that stuff correctly, thus placing PA into /usr/bin and then claiming boot isn't possible with no /usr mounted since then the shaking-hands video will bork bootup since no audio available at that time -oh well, is this /usr fault? |
| 11:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | is systemd and messing up FHS any cure for the NFC of Nokia et al? |
| 11:16.14 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: to be fair, it's nokia's fault for wanting a fucking video with sound during boot |
| 11:16.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 11:16.28 | kerio | but it could've been done easily by mounting /usr *afterwards*! |
| 11:16.31 | kerio | er |
| 11:16.34 | kerio | *beforehand* |
| 11:17.00 | kerio | no, wait, "but it could've been done easily by mounting /usr and then showing the video *afterwards*!" is better |
| 11:17.14 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why don't we run the official ntpd from ntp.org? |
| 11:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | if they'd be somewhat clever about that, they'd have a lean yet statically linked binary that directly interfaces framebuffer and audio-codec, and be done with it |
| 11:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | (ntpd) nfc |
| 11:18.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | (shaking hands video) but nooooo, they decide they need /usr/bin to be part of early boot since PA lives there |
| 11:19.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the result to give coding momkeys with no clue about system architecture the power to decide about that system architecture, so it will meet their ill-defined needs |
| 11:20.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | whol eoptification abomination is a result of just that |
| 11:21.48 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hahaha, the ntp configure script checks for every header file one by one |
| 11:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, it's not engraved in granite that PA has to be in /usr/bin or /usr/lib, it's up to distro maintainers to decide where the packages have to reside |
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| 11:23.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | so either keep friggin PA out of early boot completely, or move PA and its needed stuff into the corresponding directories meant to be actually available during early boot |
| 11:23.50 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: or mount /usr early! |
| 11:23.52 | kerio | it's not hard! |
| 11:23.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 11:23.59 | kerio | you need one fucking kernel module |
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| 11:25.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole debate about fucking up /usr is like "but there's XY in /usr/bin, so we need to get /usr/bin accessable during early boot since we need XY". That's a fundamentally ill concept |
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| 11:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | the distinction between /bin and /usr/bin (or /lib and /usr/lib, you name it) is entirely based on whether the particular binary IS or IS NOT needed in single-user mode and/or during early boot |
| 11:27.16 | kerio | who are you telling this, btw? |
| 11:27.23 | kerio | the #maemo irclog? |
| 11:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | the chanlog |
| 11:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 11:27.36 | kerio | he's probably bored of it by now |
| 11:28.20 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: I'm going to have to disagree with that explanation. |
| 11:29.15 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: The one I heard was basically that back in the day, when unix was being developed, the hard drives were so small, they had to add more and more drives to the system, every single one on a new mount point. |
| 11:30.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, and the stuff on /usr even shareable between several machines, since HDD were expensive |
| 11:31.15 | kerio | it's also about security, i guess |
| 11:31.24 | kerio | /usr can be read-only |
| 11:31.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you'd move everything not strictly needed during early boottime from /(s)bin to /usr/(s)bin |
| 11:32.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you gain some space on your crowded 200MB of root/ |
| 11:32.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and still can boot up system to at very least single-user mode to fix stuff |
| 11:33.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | Poettering obviously never wrapped his head around that |
| 11:33.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | as never did Nokia/Maemo distro maintainers |
| 11:34.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's NOT like /usr/bin been invented *before* /bin |
| 11:34.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | in very early days there's been no /usr |
| 11:34.39 | teotwaki | kerio: security has little to do with it. Users should only have write perms to their /home/$USER dir, and that's it. It doesn't really matter in how many directories are separated the binaries. |
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| 11:35.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | when /usr got "invented", you'd move all the stuff that may, from /*/* to /usr/*/* |
| 11:36.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's basically the sysadmin's decision what he thinks is needed to make a working singleuser system, and keep that stuff in /*, while moving the rest to /usr/* |
| 11:36.54 | teotwaki | /usr/local, initially, was where people could install things for a specific machine, because /usr was mounted from nfs. |
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| 11:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, /usr/local/ is in fact a tad weird in that regard |
| 11:37.52 | teotwaki | well, it's really useful these days |
| 11:38.05 | teotwaki | Especially if you're a dev who uses autoconf/autotools. |
| 11:38.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I've seen systems where it linked back to a dir on "local" HDD, from the volume mounted under /usr |
| 11:39.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | keep in mind that /usr is meant to possibly *share* it between several machines |
| 11:39.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | while /usr/local is... well, _local_ |
| 11:40.06 | Hurrian | Poettering? /usr? Are we discussing systemd? |
| 11:40.11 | teotwaki | these days, /usr/local is mostly a directory that is left unscathed by the system's package manager. |
| 11:40.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 11:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | "these days" is no applicable term for basing general architecture decisions on it, usually |
| 11:42.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | "these days" we got a (maemo N900) system that in many respects looks like a PC of 1995, or a minicomputer of 1980, regarding partition sizes and resources in general |
| 11:42.25 | Hurrian | imo, it was weird for systemd to not support mounting /usr, as many people put usr on some compressed filesystem of sorts on embedded systems |
| 11:43.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
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| 11:44.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | but Poettering - with systemd - deliberately defined systems like N900 as "not supported nowadays by linux anymore" |
| 11:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | what a brainfuck |
| 11:44.39 | Hurrian | why depend on /usr crap, I don't know. systemd IS a "under the hood" program, therefore it should be allowed to store crap in /bin |
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| 11:45.33 | Hurrian | oh, right, systemd config files. |
| 11:46.53 | Hurrian | wait, wait, why are systemd config files in /usr/lib? |
| 11:47.07 | Hurrian | someone remind me why Poettering opted not to store them in /etc |
| 11:47.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 |
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| 14:25.23 | akls | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1253582&postcount=137 |
| 14:25.31 | akls | but how can I install one of these images? |
| 14:26.06 | akls | can I simply extract it, then use resize2fs <image-file-name.img.ext3> 3072M and then simply put it on my n900? |
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| 14:34.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | akls: you're aware that's for *meego* *HARMATTAN*? |
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| 14:41.16 | akls | DocScrutinizer05, so it's not going to work on maemo? |
| 14:43.37 | akls | is there a wheezy image for maemo? :\ |
| 14:46.44 | akls | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=34550&page=283 |
| 14:46.49 | akls | that's the image for maemo |
| 14:46.54 | akls | it's exactly the same |
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| 14:55.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | please never quote http://forums.internettablettalk.com URLs here (or anywhere else) - there's talk.maemo.org for that |
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| 15:02.22 | entitled | I'm having problems with kp51 and thumb... installed the thumb2 compiled decoders and extra decoders support 0.4... gstreamer0.10-flv/mkv...deb didn't get installed (broken pipe, overwrite failed) which blocked me from installing anything else |
| 15:03.02 | entitled | used dpkg with --force-overwrite |
| 15:04.15 | kerio | entitled: why the hell did you do that |
| 15:04.23 | entitled | no idea |
| 15:04.41 | entitled | thought the thumb2 one didn't have all of the codecs |
| 15:05.26 | entitled | libmpcdec3/musepack/decoder-support now give dependancy problems |
| 15:06.23 | entitled | I suppose reflash is only easy way out of this? and next time only install the thumb2 decodecs? |
| 15:07.53 | kerio | entitled: to be fair you shouldn't get dependency problems |
| 15:08.00 | kerio | unless those problems also existed outside of cssu-thumb |
| 15:08.11 | kerio | there's no such thing as "thumb2 codecs" |
| 15:08.29 | kerio | freemangordon: you know more than me about cssu-thumb *and* codecs |
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| 15:10.05 | RST38h | I am sure there is a thumb2 decoder inside the cortex core =) |
| 15:10.06 | entitled | I meant the codec pack compiled for thumb, gstreamer O.10 |
| 15:10.08 | RST38h | cackles |
| 15:12.40 | entitled | http://pastebin.com/FQbfL4gd |
| 15:14.30 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; yeah i dont think ioscheduler matters much for any swap |
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| 17:20.52 | akls | LOL |
| 17:20.59 | akls | easy debian orientation button is wrong :DDD |
| 17:21.05 | akls | :DD |
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| 17:31.40 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: ping |
| 17:32.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: pong |
| 17:32.54 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: am I correct in thinking you use sipgate account on the n900? |
| 17:33.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 17:33.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | on N900, N810, N950, and N9 |
| 17:33.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | fun when inbound call |
| 17:33.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually even on two N900 |
| 17:33.50 | vi__ | why? |
| 17:34.15 | vi__ | oh, they all go off at once! |
| 17:34.27 | vi__ | I cannot get mine to work at all. |
| 17:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | since all UAs start to ring, and when you pick up the call on one, it's logged as "missed call" on all the others |
| 17:34.43 | vi__ | can I confirm the settings with you. |
| 17:34.45 | vi__ | ? |
| 17:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 17:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's your registrar? |
| 17:35.38 | vi__ | address is: 1499559@sipgate.co.uk |
| 17:35.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | err sipgate, nm |
| 17:36.19 | vi__ | you can confirm this is the correct format? |
| 17:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 17:36.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | mine is 6 digits, but... |
| 17:37.20 | vi__ | maybe you are older user. |
| 17:37.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 17:39.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | extended settings: "use for phonecalls", "transport: auto", no proxy, "port: 5060", "[X] autodetect public IP", "[X] loose routing", "keepalive: auto", "keepalive period: auto", "[X] auto stun detect" |
| 17:40.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | NO proxy, NO display name |
| 17:40.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even dare to edit display name, you can't ever delete it |
| 17:40.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, username |
| 17:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's the same |
| 17:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratch that, I can't count - my account as well has 7 digits |
| 17:45.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe enabled loose-routing is not correct |
| 17:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: you're using it over a WLAN-router? |
| 17:48.56 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@87.115.102.17) |
| 17:48.57 | vi__ | ? |
| 17:49.04 | vi__ | wtf disconnected |
| 17:49.07 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: |
| 17:49.16 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: did you receive my ty? |
| 17:49.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 17:49.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | did you receive my lengthy config listing? |
| 17:49.43 | vi__ | did you hear my gratuitous cursing? |
| 17:49.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 17:49.53 | vi__ | ok |
| 17:49.56 | vi__ | WELL FUCK ME. |
| 17:50.01 | vi__ | tmobile uk are blocking sip ports. |
| 17:50.06 | vi__ | THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS. |
| 17:50.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | try port 5070 |
| 17:50.13 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: ty for your help. |
| 17:50.20 | vi__ | I look forward to the day I get to buy you a 568ml fermented hops beverage. |
| 17:50.32 | vi__ | 5070? |
| 17:50.35 | vi__ | brb |
| 17:52.21 | jacekowski | vi__: old news |
| 17:52.26 | jacekowski | vi__: and it's not sip port |
| 17:52.29 | jacekowski | it's dpi |
| 17:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 17:52.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | dpi? |
| 17:52.48 | *** join/#maemo netkat (~tty1@178.32.145.61) |
| 17:52.53 | jacekowski | deep packet inspection |
| 17:52.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 17:53.06 | jacekowski | as in, you can have sip going over 80 and it will still be blocked |
| 17:53.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | fucktards, I'll use SIPS then |
| 17:53.24 | vi__ | jacekowski: how to gypsy spi? |
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| 17:53.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | hail O2 |
| 17:53.42 | vi__ | ^dpi |
| 17:53.52 | vi__ | o2 allow this? |
| 17:53.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
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| 17:54.21 | vi__ | so no ssh proxy tunnel to my home connection? |
| 17:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | should work |
| 17:54.34 | jacekowski | you can do it over ssh or something |
| 17:54.43 | jacekowski | but that's going to increase latencies |
| 17:54.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that bad |
| 17:55.12 | vi__ | what a ballache |
| 17:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually for a phonecall latencies up to 1000ms are kinda tolerable |
| 17:55.19 | vi__ | FU tmobile |
| 17:55.35 | vi__ | fucking spacker squad |
| 17:56.53 | vi__ | so I have this unlimited data, but it does not matter as I cannot use it for anything but hardcare pornography and facebook videos. |
| 17:56.56 | vi__ | ffs |
| 17:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I admit I usually do no SIP calls via GPRS anyway |
| 17:57.20 | vi__ | do you know if three mobile block sip? |
| 17:57.35 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: true, but I still want the choice! |
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| 17:59.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | try VPN |
| 17:59.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | or ssh-tunnel |
| 18:00.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | or really try port 5070, I'm not buying the DSPI just like that |
| 18:01.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might also try Transport:TLS |
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| 18:01.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | odds are they don't get that |
| 18:02.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | more odd odds are sipgate supports it maybe |
| 18:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems they don't |
| 18:06.12 | vi__ | ok |
| 18:06.14 | vi__ | brb |
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| 18:22.01 | vi__ | bah more irssi fail |
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| 19:40.12 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we should get backupmenu working from inside rescueos |
| 19:40.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see the problem with that |
| 19:40.50 | kerio | by "we" i mean robbiethe1st |
| 19:40.53 | kerio | >:D |
| 19:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yeah, a nice packaged solution would be convenient |
| 19:41.15 | kerio | and/or $thedudethatmaderescueOS |
| 19:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101 |
| 19:41.32 | kerio | NIN101: *poke* |
| 19:43.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: when is the swap between mmcblk0 and mmcblk1 done? |
| 19:44.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | udev does IIRC |
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| 19:49.33 | NIN101 | sorry, I am too lazy :-) |
| 19:49.55 | kerio | NIN101: noooo :c |
| 19:50.08 | kerio | NIN101: btw, rescueOS is neat |
| 19:50.18 | NIN101 | thx. |
| 19:51.37 | kerio | you know how it could be neater? |
| 19:51.49 | kerio | if it had some kind of menu to do backups |
| 19:52.44 | NIN101 | :-) |
| 19:54.32 | NIN101 | well I mean I pretty much lost interest in it. If anyone of you can do the required changes, I can integrate them or so. |
| 19:55.54 | kerio | NIN101: which shell does it use, btw? |
| 19:55.56 | kerio | is it busybox? |
| 19:56.29 | NIN101 | it uses busybox, but user shell is bash |
| 19:56.46 | kerio | <3 |
| 19:59.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: kerio: since rescueOS is, well... rescueOS it doesn't need a special menu for backupmenu. What I wanna say is maemo roofs isn't mounted resp not 'in use' when you're running rescueOS. You simply untar the backupmenu image to where it belongs |
| 19:59.17 | FIQ | oh god |
| 19:59.25 | kerio | meh, good point |
| 19:59.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh who? |
| 19:59.44 | kerio | having a whole chroot jail for backupmenu seems wasteful though |
| 20:00.19 | NIN101 | indeed, you could remove much of the code if you put it on rescueos |
| 20:00.24 | NIN101 | (iirc) |
| 20:01.03 | FIQ | I found out the hard way that gpSP creates a completly unmentioned (in the wiki article) directory during install containing pretty "critical" stuff (game configs) that makes some games run better, that the emulator doesn't read because it's placed wrong... lol |
| 20:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: you can remove *all* of the code, simply use tar to untar the backup-image |
| 20:02.31 | NIN101 | I know, but I thought you somebody wanted a fancy menu :P |
| 20:02.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'm mostly talking about the cute fancy menu, yes |
| 20:03.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | buold a gui frontend to tar then |
| 20:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | done, next! |
| 20:03.53 | Lava_Croft | In case there's any people here who know their Planescape: Torment |
| 20:03.55 | Lava_Croft | http://www.wischik.com/lu/senses/pst-book.html |
| 20:04.03 | Lava_Croft | (if you dont, read it anyway) |
| 20:07.33 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we already have a frontend to tar! |
| 20:07.37 | kerio | it's called backupmenu! |
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| 20:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also have a frontend to tar, mine is called bash XP |
| 20:17.25 | kerio | Microsoft Bash XP |
| 20:17.33 | kerio | D: |
| 20:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | C: |
| 20:17.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | C:\ |
| 20:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | C:\windows32\regedit |
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| 20:36.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | curses vnc, for not working like it should |
| 20:37.22 | Lava_Croft | have a puff and feel less need to curse at software! |
| 20:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to be able to get a real remote cursor, but on a completely black remote screen |
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| 22:06.11 | entitled | pfff |
| 22:06.22 | entitled | fennec won't start |
| 22:06.41 | entitled | with pk51r1 + thumb |
| 22:07.31 | entitled | i've reflashed all twice and the problem is still there |
| 22:07.46 | entitled | read on an topic it could be libqtm-12 issue |
| 22:08.13 | entitled | how can I confirm this? |
| 22:08.56 | entitled | before I follow the numerous suggested solutions there and may have to resolve to another reflash after those :D |
| 22:09.54 | entitled | I remember someone suggesting some logging tool (for another issue) |
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| 23:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | logging tool? I guess the best logging tool would be to start fennec from shell |
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| 23:27.30 | entitled | ah |
| 23:27.56 | entitled | I expected it wouldn't show anything there |
| 23:28.11 | entitled | but seems like fennec starts just fine from the shell |
| 23:28.16 | entitled | thanks doc :) |
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