| 00:00.39 | teotwaki | reenignEesreveR: reflash your device |
| 00:00.43 | teotwaki | reenignEesreveR: that should get you back in |
| 00:01.04 | reenignEesreveR | can i reflash w/o booting? |
| 00:02.10 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.251.13) |
| 00:08.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | err nope |
| 00:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 00:09.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw since 1.2(?) you actually need to do a full reflash |
| 00:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl vanilla/emmc |
| 00:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | but maybe you better use rescue-os to get into phone, and then do the echo&john thing |
| 00:15.13 | *** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~robbiethe@50-37-93-93.mscw.id.frontiernet.net) |
| 00:20.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe the term "booting" is a tad fuzzy here |
| 00:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flash |
| 00:22.16 | infobot | well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 00:24.09 | reenignEesreveR | i really dont understand which files i need to download |
| 00:24.13 | reenignEesreveR | there is a huge list |
| 00:27.18 | reenignEesreveR | sigh |
| 00:27.22 | reenignEesreveR | im using mac os lion |
| 00:29.57 | robbiethe1st | Get the flasher for osx |
| 00:30.10 | robbiethe1st | and the PR1.3 rootfs image |
| 00:30.44 | reenignEesreveR | and the flasher would install but won't show up anywhere in the path |
| 00:30.56 | GeneralAntilles | Who turned my beautiful how to page into an engineer's mess. D: |
| 00:30.58 | GeneralAntilles | glares at DocScrutinizer05. |
| 00:31.43 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 00:31.51 | GeneralAntilles | The section links don't even work correctly anymore. |
| 00:32.01 | GeneralAntilles | This needs to be split into separate articles, probably. |
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| 01:09.36 | nox- | http://boingboing.net/2012/10/18/dutch-government-gives-itself.html |
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| 01:12.52 | ManoftheSea | Hello. I'm trying to recover a password for an online account on my n900. I have root access, and know about /home/user/.rtcom-accounts |
| 01:13.07 | ManoftheSea | However, it seems passwords are stored elsewhere. Would anyone know where that is? |
| 01:26.28 | *** join/#maemo mjkerpan (~mjk@pool-71-126-232-192.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:28.20 | mjkerpan | sigh... |
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| 01:55.26 | robbiethe1st | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/backupmenu/1.2.0-1/ Give me karma |
| 02:07.49 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB2E16.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:08.15 | Woody14619a | THANK ALL THINGS HOLY! :) |
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| 02:09.46 | Woody14619a | ManoftheSea: I'll give you a hint. You're best way to see your old passwords, it so not have a keyboard... |
| 02:10.13 | ManoftheSea | Woody14619a: your hint is obscure. |
| 02:10.18 | Woody14619a | It is. :) |
| 02:10.35 | Woody14619a | you could say, it's *virtual* |
| 02:10.51 | ManoftheSea | is not a virtual adept. He has no arete. |
| 02:11.10 | ManoftheSea | will attempt that then. |
| 02:12.42 | Woody14619a | Your answer lies in the stars. ;) Happy hunting. I'm off to celebrate being a loser. (No, really...) |
| 02:12.51 | ManoftheSea | ok, wow, I forgot this thing had an on-screen keyboard. |
| 02:12.58 | ManoftheSea | However, yeah, I still only have asterisks. |
| 02:12.58 | Woody14619a | :) |
| 02:13.13 | ManoftheSea | I don't have a backspace in the on-screen kbd |
| 02:13.23 | Woody14619a | You don't need one. |
| 02:13.34 | Woody14619a | open, select, close. |
| 02:13.51 | ManoftheSea | select? Copy-paste? It's grayed out. |
| 02:14.57 | Woody14619a | perhapse select is wrong... tap. :) |
| 02:15.38 | Woody14619a | grayed out you say? Hmm... Then it may not work. |
| 02:15.48 | Woody14619a | Mine are not grey? |
| 02:16.16 | Woody14619a | Good luck! |
| 02:16.20 | ManoftheSea | Um, thanks. |
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| 02:18.23 | Woody14619a | I'm a loser baby... |
| 02:18.44 | ManoftheSea | also, why doesn't the OS-kbd have a backspace? |
| 02:18.50 | ManoftheSea | Are N900 users perfect? |
| 02:19.15 | ManoftheSea | so, I can highlight the stars, but not cut nor copy. Oddly, I can paste. |
| 02:19.27 | ManoftheSea | alternate: Where are backups stored? |
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| 02:37.17 | ManoftheSea | seriously, I can't find the .zip from osso-backup. |
| 02:39.34 | ManoftheSea | oh, yeah, it's because I'm an idiot. |
| 02:39.37 | ManoftheSea | Ok, got it. |
| 02:39.45 | andre__ | ManoftheSea, it is stored where you defined it. It's really up to you. |
| 02:40.03 | ManoftheSea | andre__: it's because I forgot the "external card" is NOT MyDocs |
| 02:40.11 | ManoftheSea | herpin the derp, here. |
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| 04:04.44 | archl | hi, all, my n900 is partly broken - autolock is not working |
| 04:05.30 | archl | the keyboard is always open; so I cannot use on-screen virtual keyboard |
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| 05:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm, obviously archl been in a hurry |
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| 08:15.23 | jaska | think i need to make my own scv layout so i can move almost-useless chars there |
| 08:15.48 | jaska | to make room for a 4-arrow finnish layout with most of the unix-related chars with fn-something or fn-shift-something |
| 08:16.41 | vi_ | jaska: ~vi-kbd |
| 08:16.52 | vi_ | goddamit |
| 08:16.53 | vi_ | jaska: ~vi-kb |
| 08:17.03 | vi_ | jaska: ~vi_kbd |
| 08:17.18 | vi_ | ~listkeys vi |
| 08:17.22 | *** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@et-0-30.gw-nat.bs.kae.de.oneandone.net) |
| 08:17.44 | vi_ | ~listkeys vi- |
| 08:17.48 | jaska | http://www.upir.cz/maemo/keyboards/ i think has the compiler.. if wiki is to believe |
| 08:18.10 | vi_ | jaska: oh wait, you are talking about virtual keybopards? |
| 08:18.22 | jaska | i mean the special symbol panel you get when you press ctrl-sym |
| 08:18.39 | jaska | so i can move useless stuff like å, eur sign, gbp sign etc there |
| 08:18.44 | vi_ | jaska: That panel sucks. |
| 08:18.55 | jaska | and reuse those for meaningful stuff |
| 08:19.00 | vi_ | Does the swedish board use the 4th row? |
| 08:19.09 | vi_ | 4th level eve, |
| 08:19.12 | vi_ | 4th level even. |
| 08:19.19 | jaska | nah |
| 08:19.29 | jaska | but some keys on the hardware keyboard dont work with shift-fn |
| 08:19.36 | jaska | like z, x, maybe j and k |
| 08:19.44 | vi_ | jaska: I know. |
| 08:19.58 | jaska | otherwise it would have been easy :) |
| 08:20.02 | vi_ | But that still leaves like 25 other free keys to use. |
| 08:20.51 | zeq1 | Hi everybody, hopefully I'm going to have some time to get Maemo hacking again soon, I've been using up my free time trying to get my skiing back up to scratch to pass an instructor test (on Sunday). That along with trying to learn Dutch, and Linux admin work... |
| 08:21.08 | vi_ | zeq1: Hey buddy! |
| 08:21.20 | vi_ | You earned your R&R, enjoy it! |
| 08:21.27 | zeq1 | hi vi_ :) |
| 08:21.54 | vi_ | jaska: you know about editing the hardware keymap right? |
| 08:22.04 | jaska | you mean xkb? |
| 08:22.10 | vi_ | yes. |
| 08:22.12 | jaska | yeah i have a customized one |
| 08:22.22 | vi_ | cool. |
| 08:22.38 | vi_ | jaska: And STILL not enough space?! |
| 08:22.41 | jaska | yeah :| |
| 08:22.50 | vi_ | WOW |
| 08:22.51 | jaska | need more room to map out 4-arrow keypad |
| 08:23.18 | vi_ | I have almost every key from a normal english keyboard. |
| 08:23.21 | jaska | which means moving atleast 2 buttons of mappings somewhere else.. and fixing the stuff i mapped behind z and x |
| 08:23.30 | vi_ | How many characters is in the swedish aplphabet? |
| 08:23.35 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon (~freemango@130-204-50-168.2074221835.ddns.cablebg.net) |
| 08:23.39 | jaska | 28? |
| 08:23.50 | vi_ | only 2 more than english! |
| 08:23.55 | entitled | wrong |
| 08:23.56 | jaska | ah, swedish is 29 |
| 08:23.57 | entitled | three |
| 08:23.59 | entitled | åäö |
| 08:24.01 | jaska | finnish is 28 |
| 08:24.01 | vi_ | wtf are you using these keys on? |
| 08:24.46 | jaska | but å is just used in names so im not going to keep it on a hw key |
| 08:25.33 | vi_ | You can use the Z+X bug slightly to your advantage. |
| 08:25.47 | jaska | if you like backspacing stuff you typed :) |
| 08:25.51 | vi_ | If you map z=[ and x=] |
| 08:25.56 | jaska | heh |
| 08:26.06 | vi_ | when you use 4th level z you will get [] |
| 08:26.13 | vi_ | when do you ever use a [ |
| 08:26.18 | vi_ | and not a ] |
| 08:26.19 | vi_ | ? |
| 08:26.24 | jaska | not often |
| 08:26.31 | vi_ | so save time and bring both up at once! |
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| 08:26.40 | jaska | j and k are another broken pair |
| 08:26.47 | vi_ | also works with () and {} and <> |
| 08:27.04 | vi_ | jaska: Yup, I have () on them. |
| 08:27.09 | zeq1 | do we know why they are broken? |
| 08:27.13 | vi_ | yes |
| 08:27.24 | zeq1 | hw issue? |
| 08:27.48 | vi_ | it is to do with el-cheapo, poorly thought out hardware design. |
| 08:28.08 | vi_ | joerg wrote a good explanation of it on the wiki some where. |
| 08:28.09 | jaska | oh how i wish it had a 4-row pad |
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| 08:28.30 | jaska | i dont know how bad the n950 kbd is |
| 08:28.31 | vi_ | do you mean 4 arrow keys. |
| 08:28.34 | vi_ | do you mean 4 arrow keys? |
| 08:28.41 | jaska | 4 rows of keys and 4-arrows :) |
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| 08:28.54 | vi_ | ah yes. |
| 08:29.00 | vi_ | also the n950 kb is shit. |
| 08:29.11 | jaska | yeah ive heard rumors of such |
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| 08:29.29 | jaska | not going to pay 1k for a beta phone :) |
| 08:30.10 | vi_ | jaska: more like alpha. |
| 08:30.19 | vi_ | and I do not mean alpha male. |
| 08:30.58 | vi_ | unless doing thibgs the hard way is alpha male, in which case I do. |
| 08:31.20 | vi_ | jaska: so swedish KB has the funny 2 arrow design? |
| 08:31.25 | jaska | yeah |
| 08:31.31 | jaska | fi/se layout is the same |
| 08:31.43 | zeq1 | how did they come up with that? |
| 08:31.50 | vi_ | why not just change rx-51 to use the 4 arrow design instead of the 2? |
| 08:32.00 | jaska | that would displace some needed letters |
| 08:32.03 | vi_ | zeq1: you have to press blue+left to go up. |
| 08:32.11 | jaska | i am trying to find room to make it 4-arrow :) |
| 08:32.13 | zeq1 | so intuitive |
| 08:32.29 | jaska | also having to press fn-left to go up makes it hard to map page-up |
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| 08:32.42 | jaska | because if you map it to fn-shift it will not show as pgup but shift-pgup |
| 08:32.46 | vi_ | jaska: I literally do not understand how you can have run out of letters when your alphabet has only 3 more characters than mine. |
| 08:33.01 | jaska | vi: because i can! |
| 08:33.19 | jaska | also various f-keys behind shift-fn-toprow |
| 08:33.26 | vi_ | I have gone as far as mapping stuff like |, ~, %, ^, and ` because there is so much space. |
| 08:33.45 | jaska | escape is fn-backspace |
| 08:33.53 | jaska | toggle fullscreen is shift-fn-backspace |
| 08:33.53 | vi_ | jaska: same here. |
| 08:34.07 | vi_ | jaska: fn-space. |
| 08:34.12 | vi_ | ~vi-kbd |
| 08:34.12 | infobot | rumour has it, vi-kbd is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping |
| 08:34.15 | jaska | fn-space is @ |
| 08:34.39 | vi_ | jaska: then how do you type in a space when you have fn locked??? |
| 08:34.49 | jaska | i never lock fn? |
| 08:35.02 | *** join/#maemo laxsill (~laxsill@nl115-245-28.student.uu.se) |
| 08:35.05 | jaska | also i use ctrl-i for tab :) |
| 08:35.12 | vi_ | You mean you let go of fn to make a space when you are typing in all numbers. |
| 08:35.12 | *** join/#maemo laxsill_ (~laxsill@nl115-245-28.student.uu.se) |
| 08:35.22 | jaska | yeah |
| 08:35.26 | jaska | or a dot |
| 08:35.27 | vi_ | jaska: illogical and filthy. |
| 08:35.35 | jaska | so what |
| 08:35.38 | vi_ | ctrl-i is for ctrl-i |
| 08:35.55 | jaska | well, ctrl-i works in a terminal for tab so its ok with me |
| 08:35.55 | vi_ | jaska: I am just making jokes. |
| 08:36.35 | vi_ | I have tab on fn-enter |
| 08:36.58 | vi_ | . on fn-fullstop |
| 08:37.19 | vi_ | this lets you type in IP adresses without letting go of fn. |
| 08:37.26 | jaska | yeah :( |
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| 08:39.36 | freemangordon | vi_: hi |
| 08:39.49 | zeq1 | hi freemangordon |
| 08:39.55 | freemangordon | LOL |
| 08:40.13 | freemangordon | zeq1: are you alive? :P |
| 08:40.19 | zeq1 | just about :) |
| 08:40.22 | freemangordon | ot it is some bot here |
| 08:40.25 | freemangordon | *or |
| 08:40.32 | zeq1 | definitely me... I think |
| 08:40.58 | freemangordon | where you've been, long time no see |
| 08:41.19 | zeq1 | see above |
| 08:41.31 | zeq1 | I've just been really busy |
| 08:41.53 | zeq1 | not had time to be on IRC at all |
| 08:42.47 | freemangordon | hmm, that is good news I hope |
| 08:43.00 | zeq1 | what's been going on here? anything new? |
| 08:43.34 | freemangordon | well, depends. |
| 08:43.51 | zeq1 | mysterious |
| 08:44.02 | freemangordon | lets say nothing new |
| 08:44.50 | ivgalvez | the usual disputes here and there |
| 08:44.57 | freemangordon | zeq1: so now you have free time? |
| 08:45.24 | freemangordon | zeq1: BTW i found a bug in gcc4.7.2. |
| 08:45.39 | zeq1 | okay |
| 08:45.41 | freemangordon | tried 2012.09, the same |
| 08:46.01 | zeq1 | is it in the known bug list for linaro? |
| 08:46.21 | freemangordon | couldn't find it |
| 08:46.34 | zeq1 | gcc bugzilla? |
| 08:47.32 | zeq1 | what is the bug? |
| 08:47.33 | freemangordon | didn;t search. the problem is that gcc issues FPU 64(or 128) bit VFP load instruction on non-aligned data |
| 08:47.53 | zeq1 | and fails or is slow? |
| 08:48.01 | freemangordon | kernel traps :D |
| 08:48.03 | zeq1 | it requires alignment |
| 08:48.06 | zeq1 | yeah |
| 08:48.14 | zeq1 | does the kernel handle it? |
| 08:48.53 | zeq1 | I'll have a look in the gcc bugzilla |
| 08:49.08 | freemangordon | naah, don;t waste your time for that |
| 08:49.17 | zeq1 | the trouble is gcc is, umm..., rather complex to debug... |
| 08:49.18 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 08:49.58 | freemangordon | zeq1: and it appears only on -O3 |
| 08:50.09 | freemangordon | with -mfpu=neon |
| 08:50.18 | freemangordon | i.e. tree-vectorizer |
| 08:50.18 | zeq1 | that should make it easier to find |
| 08:50.41 | zeq1 | some constraint not applied I guess |
| 08:51.08 | *** join/#maemo rcg-work (~rcg-work@fb2-pub-1.dv-nr.fh-frankfurt.de) |
| 08:51.22 | freemangordon | well, if you are full of energy wating to be spend on maemo, you'd better make glibc auto-detect kernel pselect() suport :P |
| 08:51.44 | zeq1 | that's waiting on me still? :O |
| 08:51.51 | freemangordon | yeah :( |
| 08:52.39 | freemangordon | seems I am the only one beside you who dare to touch glibc, but I was busy doing other stuff |
| 08:53.10 | freemangordon | at least noone volunteered :) |
| 08:53.14 | zeq1 | Okay, I'll put it to the top of my Maemo TODO |
| 08:53.21 | freemangordon | good |
| 08:53.49 | freemangordon | zeq1: hmm, something that happened: romaxa joned maemo-ssu :D |
| 08:53.55 | freemangordon | *joned |
| 08:53.57 | zeq1 | :) |
| 08:53.59 | freemangordon | the fuck |
| 08:54.04 | freemangordon | JOINED |
| 08:54.21 | freemangordon | vi_: here? |
| 08:54.24 | zeq1 | that's got to be good! |
| 08:54.30 | freemangordon | it is |
| 08:55.24 | freemangordon | unfortunately he no longer works for Nokia |
| 08:55.27 | zeq1 | romaxa is a top drawer hacker IMO |
| 08:55.37 | vi_ | freemangordon: You summoned. |
| 08:56.04 | freemangordon | zeq1: deffinitely |
| 08:56.11 | zeq1 | working for Nokia nowadays probably would be too comfortable |
| 08:56.14 | freemangordon | vi_: any results for mplayer? |
| 08:56.19 | zeq1 | wouldn't* |
| 08:56.29 | freemangordon | vi_: I am really curious |
| 08:56.50 | freemangordon | zeq1: well, depends, if you are good with c#, why not :D |
| 08:57.22 | freemangordon | zeq1: BTW did you receive my mail? |
| 08:57.51 | vi_ | freemangordon: Not yet, although I have found there are some weird iisues wrt to the keyboard. |
| 08:57.52 | zeq1 | when did you send it? I had a prolonger server outage |
| 08:58.19 | vi_ | when playing something with mplayer there are keys for skip forward/back fullscreen etc. |
| 08:58.25 | freemangordon | 3-4 weeks ago. I asked for your ng-crosstool scripts |
| 08:58.36 | freemangordon | vi_: yes |
| 08:58.44 | vi_ | these sometimes work, sometimes not. |
| 08:59.14 | zeq1 | I had a WD Velociraptor start throwing IO errors in my array |
| 08:59.19 | vi_ | sometimes if they are working, then you use volume keys to alter volume they no longer work after that. |
| 08:59.28 | freemangordon | vi_: how is the performance? |
| 08:59.46 | zeq1 | (turned out to be a firmware bug!) |
| 08:59.49 | vi_ | I suspect it is something to do with window focusing, although I am not sure. |
| 08:59.51 | freemangordon | I mean does it worth the effort? |
| 08:59.58 | freemangordon | zeq1: bad |
| 09:00.31 | freemangordon | vi_: btw there is still configure script --enable-maemo :D |
| 09:00.34 | vi_ | freemangordon: I think so, I 'feel' so. But I do not have real numerical proof. |
| 09:00.47 | freemangordon | 'feel' how? |
| 09:00.56 | freemangordon | naah, forget about numerical |
| 09:01.06 | freemangordon | we don;t have such for -thumb too |
| 09:01.19 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I have to confess, I never actually scripted the toolchain build, I have a chroot I use specifically for it, and just rely on bash history(!) |
| 09:01.23 | vi_ | I tried to play an mkv file of 'zombie flesh eaters 2'. |
| 09:01.40 | vi_ | Mplayer cannot play it, it is too much. |
| 09:01.54 | vi_ | so the video progressivly lags the audio. |
| 09:02.00 | freemangordon | yeah, DSP is still the winner |
| 09:02.07 | vi_ | unless you use frameskip. |
| 09:02.18 | freemangordon | zeq1: well, I finished doing the same |
| 09:02.24 | vi_ | I got the impression it was skipping less frames with the new one than with the old one. |
| 09:02.38 | vi_ | i.e. less jumpiness. |
| 09:02.45 | freemangordon | zeq1: though this time I put command lines in a file and saved them :D |
| 09:02.51 | freemangordon | vi_: yeah, I see |
| 09:03.11 | vi_ | In addition to that it is a lot more stable. |
| 09:03.19 | freemangordon | stable? |
| 09:03.25 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 09:03.32 | vi_ | Old mplayer would just crap out on audio streams. |
| 09:03.37 | freemangordon | the one in extras is unstable? |
| 09:03.40 | vi_ | randomly |
| 09:03.44 | freemangordon | aah, i see |
| 09:03.53 | vi_ | and sit there doing nothing. |
| 09:04.02 | vi_ | so you had to ctrl+c to quit and start again. |
| 09:04.09 | vi_ | It bugged the piss out of me. |
| 09:04.19 | vi_ | this one does not. |
| 09:04.21 | freemangordon | vi_: any chance to tell kmplayer what to pass to mplayer? |
| 09:04.51 | vi_ | I do not know. I have never actually used kmplayer beyond seeing that it worked. |
| 09:04.57 | freemangordon | :D |
| 09:05.00 | vi_ | I do not even know what it is written in. |
| 09:05.11 | vi_ | it could be tcl/tk |
| 09:05.23 | vi_ | with 'wish' gui extension for what I know. |
| 09:05.30 | freemangordon | vi_: the more important queston: can you define how backing swap is supposed to behave? |
| 09:05.31 | vi_ | (although I do know it is not that!) |
| 09:05.40 | vi_ | freemangordon: not slow as shit. |
| 09:06.01 | freemangordon | naah, try harder |
| 09:06.06 | vi_ | correction, frozen shit in an igloo. |
| 09:06.16 | vi_ | ramzswap works. |
| 09:06.26 | vi_ | if it had backing swap it would be great. |
| 09:06.42 | vi_ | But as soon as you enable BS it just stalls. |
| 09:06.42 | freemangordon | I mean, if I am to be on it, I want to do it in a proper way |
| 09:06.55 | zeq1 | especially if it correctly handled the flash erase block alignment |
| 09:07.20 | freemangordon | zeq1: that one is easy |
| 09:07.53 | freemangordon | i can perform runtime test in module load to find block size and partition misalignement |
| 09:08.13 | zeq1 | freemangordon: but it isn't done now afaik |
| 09:08.20 | freemangordon | the problem comes after that, i.e. when to write? |
| 09:08.26 | freemangordon | zeq1: deffinitely |
| 09:08.38 | freemangordon | but it seems to me to be really easy |
| 09:09.01 | freemangordon | I still remember the days of NDD and interleave factors :D:D:D |
| 09:09.02 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 09:09.05 | zeq1 | I guess you write when you have a full erase block to dispatch |
| 09:09.14 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 09:09.25 | freemangordon | sounds sane |
| 09:09.44 | freemangordon | vi_: any thoughts on that |
| 09:09.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi_: if you're interested in kbd matrix flaws: I wrote this lil essay in hw:components iirc |
| 09:09.59 | freemangordon | I guess ShadowJK can help here too |
| 09:10.03 | zeq1 | there was a kernel patch (RFC) for it a couple of years ago |
| 09:10.09 | freemangordon | (if I am not mistaken) |
| 09:10.31 | freemangordon | zeq1: for mtd or compcache? |
| 09:10.43 | freemangordon | hmm, not mtd |
| 09:10.54 | freemangordon | flash is not handles by mtd |
| 09:10.57 | zeq1 | intelligent handling of swap on flash |
| 09:10.59 | freemangordon | *hadled |
| 09:11.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | zeq1: souns friggin useful |
| 09:11.36 | freemangordon | but that is what Nokia does |
| 09:11.48 | zeq1 | I don't think it ever went mainstream because *most* people use SSDs now, and the firmware is pretty good at handling it |
| 09:11.53 | freemangordon | until swap becomes fragmented |
| 09:12.27 | zeq1 | freemangordon: it shouldn't become fragmented if the blocks are never misaligned |
| 09:12.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | indeed |
| 09:13.11 | zeq1 | it doesn't matter if they are not sequential |
| 09:13.17 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer51: zeq1 was asking, I pointed him to your marvellous article. |
| 09:13.17 | freemangordon | I know |
| 09:14.05 | freemangordon | but I still thing some background defragmentation should take place |
| 09:14.17 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@sicksrv.arbeitsagentur.de) |
| 09:14.20 | zeq1 | tail-packing? |
| 09:14.57 | freemangordon | hmm, maybe it will come naturally when I start to play with it |
| 09:15.20 | freemangordon | usually it happns that way |
| 09:15.36 | zeq1 | it would be really good to have decent swap performance |
| 09:15.57 | *** join/#maemo qwazix__ (~qwazix@78.87.14.177) |
| 09:16.14 | zeq1 | plus less flash wear |
| 09:16.24 | freemangordon | the other option would be to use...ummm.. how was that called |
| 09:16.35 | freemangordon | MM that fennec/firefox uses |
| 09:16.44 | vi_ | zeq1: flash wear is a myth. |
| 09:17.10 | freemangordon | aah, yes, jmalloc |
| 09:17.10 | vi_ | on devices that have a controller that takes care of wear levelling. |
| 09:18.34 | freemangordon | what do you think? about jmalloc type of algorithm |
| 09:20.01 | freemangordon | BTW I am not sure how exactly backing swap works now |
| 09:20.43 | freemangordon | does it try to compress and write as soon as there is a page request? |
| 09:21.07 | freemangordon | vi_: any clue? |
| 09:26.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi_: (a myth) not anymore nowadays, with multilevel cells |
| 09:31.50 | *** join/#maemo raccoon_ (r@ghs/raccoon) |
| 09:33.01 | raccoon_ | hey everyone. i just got myself an N900 and would like to know whats going on in the community today. where is a good place to look for current software/distributions if you want to hack it? i am an experienced linux and bsd user but the maemo platform is new grounds :) |
| 09:33.13 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p579F6B6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:36.38 | freemangordon | raccoon_: you may want to install CSSU on it |
| 09:36.50 | freemangordon | ~cssu |
| 09:36.50 | infobot | i heard cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 09:37.12 | freemangordon | and if you are bold enough, go for |
| 09:37.16 | freemangordon | ~cssu-thumb |
| 09:37.16 | infobot | i heard cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597 |
| 09:38.07 | freemangordon | raccoon_: but it really depends what you want to exactly "hack" |
| 09:38.26 | raccoon_ | freemangordon: i'm unsure at the moment, so i'd like to see what the community is up to |
| 09:38.45 | raccoon_ | but i'll take a look at CSSU, thanks |
| 09:39.34 | vi_ | raccoon_: CSSU is the community firmware release. |
| 09:39.42 | raccoon_ | vi_: allright |
| 09:40.12 | vi_ | raccoon_: Think of it being like cyanogenmod but on hyper-steroids and not wearing a back to the future tee-shirt. |
| 09:40.27 | raccoon_ | hahaha |
| 09:40.51 | raccoon_ | actually, cyanogen came to mind when thinking if there were any similar community projects |
| 09:40.58 | raccoon_ | but thanks for updating me about the no-frills approach |
| 09:41.03 | raccoon_ | i also find cyanogen a little too flashy |
| 09:41.18 | vi_ | freemangordon: BS is used when a page cannot be compressed by a certain percentage. |
| 09:42.58 | vi_ | This way, uncompressed pages will not eat up your precious ramdisk. |
| 09:43.11 | freemangordon | aah, yes |
| 09:43.15 | vi_ | raccoon_: Then you are in luck! The n900 is anything but flashy! |
| 09:43.21 | freemangordon | sounds ineffective |
| 09:43.49 | raccoon_ | vi_: sounds like my cup of tea :-D |
| 09:44.02 | raccoon_ | still live in the terminal most of my wake hours... |
| 09:44.32 | vi_ | then you will never want another device after this one. |
| 09:44.45 | freemangordon | vi_: i would rather write everything to flash (compressed) while keeping it (compressed) in ram too, until the point RAM is filled |
| 09:45.04 | *** join/#maemo grinsekatze (~grinsekat@clue20.linguistik.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 09:45.29 | freemangordon | then if i have to store a new page, i'll evict the older in RAM and use it. |
| 09:46.29 | freemangordon | *oldest |
| 09:48.17 | freemangordon | hmm, i'll have to recall how was that working |
| 09:48.18 | *** join/#maemo deepy (~deepy@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 09:49.05 | vi_ | raccoon_: The most important thing you want to learn is how to reflash the firmware. |
| 09:49.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | raccoon_: better come here asking for first 2 weeks. Maemo has some pretty unintuitive idiosyncrasies, e.g. you should be a bit careful with usual install methods like you know from other linux: apt-get etc |
| 09:49.26 | vi_ | ~flashing |
| 09:49.26 | infobot | it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 09:49.32 | jaska | hmm, the wlan is pretty damn laggy with the new access points at work |
| 09:49.47 | jaska | i wonder if its some power saving stuff, sshing into the phone is.. icky |
| 09:49.57 | vi_ | jaska: Yes, it is. |
| 09:50.02 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 09:50.09 | jaska | the old ap was crap otherwise but it wouldnt do this :D |
| 09:50.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 09:50.16 | vi_ | jaska: You have 2 choices. |
| 09:50.26 | freemangordon | vi_: 3 :P |
| 09:50.27 | vi_ | 1. Turn off wifi powersaving when at work. |
| 09:50.29 | jaska | can i disable powersaving on the n900-end |
| 09:50.38 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (~zap@94.25.228.118) |
| 09:50.39 | jaska | i dont want to change the config of the wlan aps |
| 09:50.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 09:50.41 | vi_ | 2. fiddle with the access points settings. |
| 09:50.55 | raccoon_ | DocScrutinizer51: oh, ok, thanks for the heads up |
| 09:50.56 | jaska | even if i am the person who sets them up :) |
| 09:50.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | dtim |
| 09:51.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | raccoon_: |
| 09:51.07 | vi_ | jaska: w00t! |
| 09:51.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~jrtools |
| 09:51.13 | infobot | methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 09:51.36 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer51: You figured out how to trick the powersaving with beecons or something right? |
| 09:51.37 | jaska | at home everything is fine and it doesnt eat up the bat |
| 09:51.40 | freemangordon | jaska: you have 3 options on n900 re wlan power savings |
| 09:52.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi_: dtim=1 on AP |
| 09:52.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | and beacons = 10Hz |
| 09:52.24 | vi_ | jaska: ^ what he said. |
| 09:52.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | all you can do |
| 09:52.44 | jaska | trying to figure out how to do it on the n900-side |
| 09:53.25 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I suspect this means beacon interbal of 100 ms? |
| 09:53.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | on N900: PSM=none |
| 09:53.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: ywep |
| 09:53.47 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: what? |
| 09:53.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 09:54.13 | freemangordon | PSM=none will burn my battery at home for 6 hours with the above settings |
| 09:54.29 | *** join/#maemo zeq1 (~s_j_newbu@cpc9-rdng24-2-0-cust649.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 09:54.36 | freemangordon | my cheapo comes with exactly the same values |
| 09:54.44 | vi_ | here is a crazy solution... |
| 09:54.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | all you can do on N900 |
| 09:54.51 | vi_ | Use a bluetooth access point? |
| 09:54.59 | jaska | not sure if the ap can support multiple power saving schemes on virtual ssids |
| 09:55.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmmm |
| 09:55.16 | jaska | is there any diff betgween on (max) and on (intermediate)?:) |
| 09:55.21 | freemangordon | but disabling PSM will burn the battery in no time |
| 09:55.32 | freemangordon | jaska: 500ms/200ms for something |
| 09:55.46 | freemangordon | or 500/100 |
| 09:56.29 | jaska | at home the wrt54gl with alternative firmware seems to be fine hmm |
| 09:57.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep, here too |
| 09:57.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | ddWRT |
| 09:57.39 | jaska | derp.. changed powersave to intermediate and it wont connect :) |
| 09:58.46 | freemangordon | vi_: are you sure BT is less power hungry than wifi? |
| 10:00.16 | jaska | arf, theres no fise.def for scv |
| 10:00.38 | jaska | guess ill have to do from scratch |
| 10:05.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: I'm |
| 10:06.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: for some reason WLAN RX eats battery like candy, while BT needs some humble 2mA |
| 10:07.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | my BT been enabled invisible for last 8 months - yeah I know I'm a moron ;-P |
| 10:08.30 | *** join/#maemo akls (~alex@82.131.80.253.cable.starman.ee) |
| 10:09.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | yust too convenient to simply power up BT heaset and done. While standby time didn't change any noticeably |
| 10:10.06 | jaska | yeah, this is pretty hungry with psm off |
| 10:10.25 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N9 (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 10:11.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | are the "100mW" ERP or peak? |
| 10:11.52 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@pool-71-116-23-50.eriepa.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 10:11.53 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 10:12.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | iirc for GSM it's ERP, averaged over TDMA |
| 10:12.29 | jaska | prolly erp |
| 10:12.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | :nod: |
| 10:13.03 | jaska | i could probably live with 10mW, the ap isnt many meters away |
| 10:13.06 | *** part/#maemo Venemo_N9 (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 10:13.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | 10mW redcommended |
| 10:13.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | -d |
| 10:13.52 | jaska | on anything bigger than a phone 100mW is a non-issue :) |
| 10:14.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | the diff is marginal though, consumption wise |
| 10:14.12 | GGon | i want an e7 |
| 10:14.25 | GGon | why are they still so expensive |
| 10:14.38 | GGon | e7 shod cost $99 by now heh |
| 10:14.45 | GGon | should |
| 10:15.59 | jaska | hmm i see. oh well, guess ill have to live with the power nomnom |
| 10:16.15 | jaska | at home i can leave psm on max and itll be fine :) |
| 10:19.18 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 10:19.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | jaska: others did a ping per second, dunno if it's more economic than PSM=0 |
| 10:20.09 | jaska | tried, didnt help |
| 10:20.13 | jaska | the ping would just stall |
| 10:20.19 | jaska | and then continue in bursts |
| 10:22.54 | jaska | dtim is 1, beacon interval is 100ms on the aps hmm |
| 10:23.31 | jaska | i wonder if short guard interval etc do anything |
| 10:23.46 | *** join/#maemo ijon_ (~ijon@2a02:6b8:0:40c:bd13:c00e:f07c:b3e1) |
| 10:23.53 | *** part/#maemo ijon_ (~ijon@2a02:6b8:0:40c:bd13:c00e:f07c:b3e1) |
| 10:24.07 | jaska | a-mpdu aggregatin shouldnt touch 802.11g stations |
| 10:25.04 | vi_ | freemangordon: Yeah, I even linked to a paper on the subject some 2 weeks ago. |
| 10:25.09 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@pool-71-116-17-91.eriepa.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 10:25.10 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 10:25.44 | jaska | the effects do feel like something a-mpdu would cause tho |
| 10:25.49 | freemangordon | vi_: ok |
| 10:29.04 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (~berto@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe53df00-164.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:30.34 | vi_ | here is a really good paper on power use in phones: |
| 10:30.38 | vi_ | http://static.usenix.org/event/usenix10/tech/full_papers/Carroll.pdf |
| 10:30.52 | vi_ | it compares G1, N1 and freerunner |
| 10:32.06 | vi_ | Our CPU micro-benchmarks show that dynamic volt-age and frequency scaling (DVFS) can significantly re-duce the power consumption of the CPU. However, |
| 10:32.09 | vi_ | this does not imply reduced energy overall, because the |
| 10:32.10 | vi_ | energy. |
| 10:32.13 | vi_ | run-time of the workload also increases. Our results |
| 10:32.15 | vi_ | show (Table 3) that only highly memory-bound work-loads (namely mcf) exhibit a net reduction in CPU/RAM |
| 10:32.43 | deepy | is there a one summary of how they all are related to each other? |
| 10:32.49 | deepy | I wish I could read all of it, but kinda cramped at work :p |
| 10:33.37 | vi_ | deepy: save it for later, this is a good paper. |
| 10:33.50 | deepy | I will |
| 10:33.56 | vi_ | Good as in a good read, I cannot comment on their scientific method yet! |
| 10:42.08 | deepy | It loooked very interesting from the brief part I read and the description |
| 10:44.02 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@pool-71-116-17-91.eriepa.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 10:44.02 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 10:52.32 | vi_ | hey, do you think if I painted the camera LEDs with some phosphorus gunk, they would produce white light instead? |
| 10:55.28 | *** join/#maemo akls (~alex@82.131.80.253.cable.starman.ee) |
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| 11:14.28 | jaska | also, i wonder why its preferring the access point which is the other side of the office instead of the nearer one :) |
| 11:14.47 | jaska | wonder if its that it looks at channel 3 before 9 |
| 11:15.16 | raccoon_ | different channels mean different bandwidth in the spectrum right |
| 11:15.25 | raccoon_ | or how one should put it (not exactly my comfortable terms) |
| 11:15.29 | jaska | different frequency |
| 11:15.31 | raccoon_ | ah |
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| 11:17.34 | Skry | vi_: since you've done keyboard remapping, do you have any idea how to use Multi_key as, lets say, Mod4 ? |
| 11:18.30 | jaska | its constantly throwing wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP xxxxx - sending probe request inth kernel message buffer |
| 11:20.14 | vi_ | Skry: Not exactly, however... |
| 11:20.25 | vi_ | brb, dumping rx-51 to psatebin. |
| 11:22.22 | vi_ | http://cxg.de/_ece6e8.htm |
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| 11:23.01 | vi_ | Skry: look at lines 459-476 |
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| 11:23.18 | vi_ | this is where multikey is defined. |
| 11:23.54 | vi_ | I do not really understand xkb |
| 11:24.09 | vi_ | it is witchcraft sent back in time from the year 500. |
| 11:24.20 | Skry | i agree |
| 11:24.36 | jaska | kinda |
| 11:24.38 | vi_ | However on line 471 we can see the assignments for the 'multi' key. |
| 11:24.57 | vi_ | on the first level it is control. |
| 11:25.17 | vi_ | on level 2, that is shift+multi it is also control. |
| 11:25.38 | vi_ | on levels 3+4 it becomes multi-key. |
| 11:26.10 | vi_ | level 3 is fn+multi key |
| 11:26.25 | vi_ | sorry, wrong |
| 11:26.29 | vi_ | level 4 is fn+multi key |
| 11:26.38 | vi_ | level 3 is shift+multi key |
| 11:26.48 | jaska | hits the wlan chipset with a herring |
| 11:26.54 | vi_ | no, that is also wrong. |
| 11:27.18 | Skry | hmm, so i guess i could just use level 2 as super_l or whatever |
| 11:27.19 | vi_ | wl2170 chipset only responds to fresh water fish. |
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| 11:28.01 | vi_ | skry I think level 2 is shift+ctrl |
| 11:28.19 | vi_ | I tried to turn it into left alt once. |
| 11:28.25 | jaska | normal, shift, fn, fn+shift |
| 11:28.27 | vi_ | I did not get very far. |
| 11:28.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | jaska: lost beacon usually means AP is sending them too infrequently, or it is using an insane N mixedmode setup |
| 11:28.40 | vi_ | jaska: yeah |
| 11:28.57 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer51: Is N even a ratified standard yet? |
| 11:29.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | or you have 2 AP on channels close together |
| 11:29.08 | jaska | doc: yeah, its in 802.11n 2 antennas in and out |
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| 11:29.31 | jaska | with 40MHz channels etc.. think my phone is the only thing here that doesnt do 802.11n :) |
| 11:29.31 | Skry | vi_: yeah, thats about what I'm also trying, I find it somewhat challenging to use tiling wm without extra modifier |
| 11:29.43 | jaska | 11n is no longer draft |
| 11:30.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | keep in mind WLAN occupies 2 chan up and down from the center chan |
| 11:30.30 | Hurrian | You just finished moving to 11n? 11ac is coming very soon - Asus has yet another spec buff router that does ac. |
| 11:30.31 | jaska | in 40MHz mode its a bit more |
| 11:32.03 | Hurrian | I think I'll be getting a USB network card for my N900 - probably a USB everything else, too. |
| 11:32.16 | jaska | yeah, usb ethernet is starting to sound good :) |
| 11:32.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | jaska: so a close AP may spoil your 'home' AP's beacons |
| 11:32.47 | jaska | nothing on the same channel |
| 11:32.50 | Hurrian | I'm thinking of placing my N900 semi-permanently in a flasher dealie, with USB hooked up to a hub that feeds it with power, ethernet, full size keyboard and mouse. |
| 11:32.51 | jaska | or neighboring channels |
| 11:33.06 | jaska | its not affecting anything else. |
| 11:33.08 | jaska | just the n900 |
| 11:33.41 | vi_ | Skry: well, theoretically if you made the first instance of 'multi_key' on line 471 into the modifier you wanted...It SHOULD work. |
| 11:33.45 | jaska | and the old access point worked with it.. those were total garbage that needed daily reboots sometimes |
| 11:33.56 | vi_ | However I do not think you could have ctrl+alt combinations. |
| 11:34.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | bbl |
| 11:34.08 | vi_ | jaska: belkin 54g? |
| 11:34.15 | jaska | vi: hp v-m200 |
| 11:34.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | o/ |
| 11:34.23 | jaska | utter shit. |
| 11:34.28 | Hurrian | jaska, usb ethernet indeed - scp over G-wifi is garbage. |
| 11:34.29 | vi_ | shudders |
| 11:34.42 | jaska | they pretend to be business aps :) |
| 11:34.55 | Skry | vi_: yeah, well, have to figure something out, thanks |
| 11:34.56 | jaska | they randomly stop accepting associations |
| 11:35.42 | jaska | psm=0 it works just fine tho :) |
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| 11:40.34 | vi_ | jaska: You could put a script in /etc/network/if-up.d to detect if you are connecting to your work wifi and switch psm on/off. |
| 11:40.59 | jaska | vi: psm is per-network so thats handled by the user interface |
| 11:41.12 | vi_ | jaska: Oh yes, so it is. |
| 11:41.15 | vi_ | oopz |
| 11:41.49 | vi_ | Lets all celebrate, something in ICD that was a good idea. |
| 11:41.59 | vi_ | celebrate good times c'mon! |
| 11:42.02 | vi_ | ~sing |
| 11:42.02 | infobot | I'm Sexy and I know it! Yea! |
| 11:43.40 | vi_ | lol wut. winphone7, you cannot set a static IP. |
| 11:43.55 | Lava_Croft | windowsCE7 you mean! :) |
| 11:44.05 | vi_ | WinCE |
| 11:44.06 | jaska | i dont think its wince7 yet :) |
| 11:44.14 | vi_ | ~define wince |
| 11:44.14 | infobot | Use ~dict for definitions. |
| 11:44.15 | deepy | vi_: I recall being unable to do that in Android too |
| 11:44.22 | vi_ | ~dict wince |
| 11:44.31 | Lava_Croft | i hope Asus fixes our Nexus7 for free:< |
| 11:44.33 | vi_ | ~winces |
| 11:44.35 | Lava_Croft | Shoddy quality screen |
| 11:44.37 | vi_ | ~dict winces |
| 11:44.48 | deepy | And then I noticed that I can't connect my Android to AD-HOC networks |
| 11:44.49 | vi_ | worst dictionary ever. |
| 11:44.50 | Hurrian | WP7 doesn't do static IP? If true, that's a major oversight. |
| 11:45.03 | Lava_Croft | Hurrian: wp7 is a pile of major oversights |
| 11:45.05 | vi_ | Hurrian: no shit. |
| 11:45.08 | jaska | ooh, wince is at 7.. guess they synced the numbers |
| 11:45.09 | Hurrian | Everything else has been able to do that since forever. |
| 11:45.19 | Hurrian | deepy, it's for "security" reasons |
| 11:45.20 | vi_ | it is unbelieveable. |
| 11:45.35 | vi_ | Relying on DHCP for security reasons? |
| 11:45.41 | deepy | vi_: no, ad-hoc |
| 11:45.47 | Hurrian | no, I was referring to ad-hoc |
| 11:45.50 | jaska | "security"... emphasis on the "" |
| 11:45.54 | Hurrian | unfortunately, they think users cannot discern between the icon for ad-hoc and AP-mode wifi |
| 11:46.09 | vi_ | I still do not get it. |
| 11:46.43 | vi_ | If I was going to steal your passwords and inject goatse images into all your web pages I would set up a fake AP, not use and ad-hoc connection. |
| 11:47.58 | Hurrian | well, uhh, you see, very few Android devices can do true AP mode, even then they need special firmware provided by the device manufacturer because their WiFi chip is a special star revision |
| 11:48.30 | vi_ | ... |
| 11:48.51 | vi_ | I would'nt use an android phone to launch SSL MITM attacks. |
| 11:48.59 | vi_ | Id use an n900 XD |
| 11:49.00 | deepy | I would |
| 11:49.01 | Hurrian | most people are stuck with ad-hoc wifi mode, and thus google's concern that attacks from rooted crap phones would pwn other idiots' phones. |
| 11:49.33 | Hurrian | vi_, I wouldn't use an android to do anything that requires a lot of CPU power in a glibc userland |
| 11:49.50 | vi_ | Hurrian: How well can they chroot? |
| 11:49.57 | Hurrian | everything is simply ridiculously slow, even in a chroot. |
| 11:50.27 | Hurrian | a Debian chroot on my SGS2 is /slower/ on XFCE than my N900 is chrooting the same image |
| 11:50.35 | vi_ | I want a phone I can hook up to my computer monitor, chroot into debian, hook up my KB+mouse and then do some real shit. |
| 11:50.39 | vi_ | like pr0n |
| 11:50.49 | Hurrian | the N900? |
| 11:51.02 | vi_ | Hurrian: How to hook it up to the monitor? |
| 11:51.08 | Hurrian | it does, uhh, tv-out and bluetooth HID |
| 11:51.11 | Lava_Croft | no RCA plugs on your monitor? |
| 11:51.34 | deepy | iirc ubuntu is working on something like that for android |
| 11:51.38 | deepy | but I don't trust it |
| 11:51.40 | vi_ | no and I want more than a 640x480 resolution. |
| 11:51.48 | Hurrian | vi_, shitty RCA to VGA dongles |
| 11:51.53 | Hurrian | it's disappointing how few phones have any form of TV out nowadays. |
| 11:52.07 | vi_ | Hurrian: I dont even have a TV. |
| 11:52.08 | Hurrian | deepy, it's been vaporware >1 year now |
| 11:52.34 | vi_ | [JOKE] How do you know if someone does not have a TV? |
| 11:52.46 | vi_ | [PUNCHLINE] They tell you. |
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| 11:55.11 | kerio | vi_: [LAUGH] lol |
| 11:55.23 | fizzie | I thought miniHDMI or that MHL thing wasn't that rare these days. |
| 11:55.25 | kerio | vi_: also use a usb vga adapter |
| 11:55.42 | vi_ | kerio: kernel modules. |
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| 11:56.02 | kerio | use a usb vga adapter and compile the kernel module for it |
| 11:56.15 | vi_ | kerio: I have no computer right now. |
| 11:56.55 | kerio | vi_: buy a computer |
| 11:57.52 | vi_ | NO U |
| 11:57.53 | Hurrian | vi_, how's that N950 working out for you? |
| 11:58.01 | vi_ | Hurrian: It is not. |
| 11:58.24 | vi_ | I cannot use it for fear of hamfisting it into a million pieces. |
| 11:58.34 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; re erase blocks etc.. you dont have to wait until you have an entire block to write (well except with kingston, but that's such a pathetically slow device it's pretty hopeless) |
| 11:58.37 | kerio | haha |
| 11:58.37 | kerio | why? |
| 11:58.46 | deepy | fizzie: I have MHL supposedly |
| 11:58.51 | vi_ | Also I hate swipe/harmattan. |
| 11:58.52 | deepy | But I don't have a TV to try it with :p |
| 11:59.17 | vi_ | worst interface ever. |
| 11:59.24 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; on the good sandisk you can almost write as much as you want, in any random order, inside one specific writeblock |
| 11:59.26 | vi_ | an interfeaces if you will. |
| 11:59.39 | Hurrian | vi_, autorotate a PITA? |
| 12:00.02 | vi_ | Hurrian: autorotate? |
| 12:00.14 | Hurrian | yeah, autorotate on the homescreen. |
| 12:00.38 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; all the issues start when you touch many erase blocks with writes. At that point the card may read/write a 4M block (last sandisk I bought had 4M blocks) for every request |
| 12:00.48 | Hurrian | I'd imagine it'd be gobs more useful on the N950 than N9 though |
| 12:00.54 | vi_ | oh god, I hate autorotate. |
| 12:01.12 | Hurrian | personally, I find myself using my N9 more as a phone. |
| 12:01.13 | vi_ | It always goes sideways when I dont want it to, then I have to wait ~ 1sec for it to come back. |
| 12:01.41 | kerio | vi_: the n900 can do that too! :D |
| 12:01.47 | Hurrian | holy gawd that, especially when browsing in bed. |
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| 12:02.56 | Hurrian | if you tend to roll around a lot, prepare for lots of orientation twists. |
| 12:02.56 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; some cards can only have one "open" erase block, some cards can even do 4 (and 4 is about the minimum you need before ext* starts running ok-ish with a single active process writing) |
| 12:03.15 | kerio | ShadowJK: sandisk is good, right? |
| 12:03.33 | kerio | i've got a sandisk C4 which is probably an old C2 |
| 12:03.39 | kerio | sadly |
| 12:03.49 | Hurrian | kerio, 32GB? |
| 12:03.51 | kerio | yep |
| 12:04.01 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; what fremantle's default swap algorithm does is: find largest free block in swap, write all new swapout sequentially into that block, when end of block is reached: repeat |
| 12:04.19 | Hurrian | they're advertised as C4, and do 4MB/s seq writes, but drop to 2MB/s random |
| 12:04.26 | kerio | i know |
| 12:04.33 | kerio | it's still fairly good, tho |
| 12:04.34 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: thanks |
| 12:04.43 | kerio | also hahahaha no |
| 12:04.47 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; if there's minimal other activity on the card (like if you use uSD) it then doesn't even matter if it's written 4k at a time |
| 12:04.50 | kerio | 2MB/s random is not even close |
| 12:05.03 | Hurrian | ~600KB-1MB/s, actually. |
| 12:05.05 | ShadowJK | You treat it when writing as if it was a tape drive :) |
| 12:05.06 | kerio | yeah |
| 12:05.07 | Hurrian | I think. |
| 12:05.11 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: but I wan't to make it better than Nokia's algo, if possible |
| 12:06.00 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: are you sure it wouldn't be better is I wait until I have a whole erase block to write? |
| 12:06.09 | freemangordon | s/is/if/ |
| 12:06.11 | kerio | freemangordon: wtf is an erase block |
| 12:06.25 | kerio | eMMC and uSD are both perfect block devices, they do their own thing |
| 12:06.57 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; it's better when there's alot of other activity on the card, like filesystems |
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| 12:08.44 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: yeah, my thoughts exactly. If i write data aligned to and having sizeof eraseblock, underlying block driver wuould not interleave my request with fs system requests |
| 12:08.56 | ShadowJK | kerio; yes they do their own thing, and that means worst case behaviour becomes read-modify-write 4M for every write you send. Take a class 4 card, 4M/s write speed, if you trigger a 4 megabyte read-modify-write with a 4kilobyte write repeatedly, the speed has now dropped to 4kilobytes/sec instead of 4M |
| 12:09.25 | kerio | :c |
| 12:09.29 | kerio | that's ungood |
| 12:10.06 | ShadowJK | there's a reason SSDs have half a gig of ram and dualcore arm cpus, they need oomph to work around flash speed issues :) |
| 12:10.15 | kerio | :D |
| 12:10.30 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I suspect i can get eraseblock size foe uSD/eMMC somehow programaticaly? or I should benchmark to find it |
| 12:10.33 | kerio | ShadowJK: build me a ram uSD |
| 12:10.47 | kerio | freemangordon: 4MB |
| 12:10.52 | freemangordon | kerio: no |
| 12:11.04 | freemangordon | depends on the card/manifacturer,etc |
| 12:11.12 | kerio | yeah but multiples are fine too |
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| 12:11.26 | Hurrian | kerio, if only we had DIMMs addressable as mmc block device, we would've solved the N900's memory problem by now |
| 12:11.39 | freemangordon | :) |
| 12:11.46 | jaska | or some sort of psram |
| 12:11.50 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; with newer cards and newer kernels, and when you use a non-usb card reader, it appears as preferred_erase_size or something like that in /sys/mmcblk*/, possibly in the queue subdir |
| 12:12.03 | MrPingu | Guys, when packaging an executable |
| 12:12.13 | MrPingu | do I need to include some kind of license? |
| 12:12.20 | jaska | wet dreams of 32GB psram usd :D |
| 12:12.48 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: so I have to benchmark after all. at least to find the begining of the first block |
| 12:12.51 | kerio | jaska: 1GB would be plenty |
| 12:13.08 | MrPingu | Note: it's not my executable, I only compiled and now I am trying to get it packaged + optified for maemo |
| 12:13.10 | jaska | yeah itd be fine for swap |
| 12:13.21 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; I'd use 4M alignment |
| 12:13.22 | Hurrian | MrPingu, include it in the debian description |
| 12:13.27 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 12:13.31 | ShadowJK | and partitions 4M aligned too |
| 12:13.39 | Hurrian | no need to include the GPL/whatever license, just say it's licensed under x license |
| 12:14.24 | Hurrian | (and include link back to author/source website) |
| 12:15.34 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: sy, you propose to get the size of the whole block device, to find the first 4M aligned sector that is part of my swap partition and to mark it as first secto to use? |
| 12:15.48 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 12:15.52 | freemangordon | ok |
| 12:16.01 | freemangordon | sounds sane |
| 12:16.01 | kerio | do swap partitions have a header? |
| 12:16.03 | ShadowJK | You don't even need to know the size of the block device |
| 12:16.16 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I think I need to know it |
| 12:16.31 | ShadowJK | But if partition is not aligned to 4M, you need to add an offset I think |
| 12:16.38 | freemangordon | as noone knows what alignment my swap partition has |
| 12:17.19 | freemangordon | otherwise I should deal with partition table, but that looks more complcated to me |
| 12:18.32 | MrPingu | In the source package I have a /doc/ folder with some txt files: README.txt and CREDITS.txt |
| 12:18.36 | freemangordon | though block size and alignment deffinitely should be passed to driver as module parameters |
| 12:18.50 | ShadowJK | For use on "dedicated" uSD, the nokia algorithm could be improved by adding garbage collection to consolidate the small pieces of data that's left all over the device |
| 12:19.00 | MrPingu | Do I need them to include in opt/usr/share/doc/ in the package or something? |
| 12:19.34 | MrPingu | I am just trying to do it right and hopefully I will be able to upload it to extras-devel in the end |
| 12:20.04 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: Nokia algo in swap is like spaghetti, I would prefer to reimplement a better algo in compcache |
| 12:20.18 | kerio | ShadowJK: btw, how do i make sure my partitions are aligned to some sector size? |
| 12:20.44 | freemangordon | get your starting cluster from partition table |
| 12:20.58 | ShadowJK | kerio, fdisk -u gives you units of 512 bytes instead of whatever the default is.. all fdisk tinkering is destructive, so beware |
| 12:21.41 | ShadowJK | I did an experiment a few years ago, I recorded every write by kswapd and plotted it, the "sector number" on Y: http://enivax.net/jk/kswapd.png |
| 12:21.59 | ShadowJK | Y represents 0 to 768Megabyte or whatever on emmc |
| 12:22.20 | kerio | ShadowJK: ah crap D: |
| 12:22.35 | kerio | ShadowJK: they're not aligned |
| 12:22.36 | kerio | not even close |
| 12:23.35 | freemangordon | hmm, I still fail to see why is there no enough free space once we hit 768MB |
| 12:23.48 | freemangordon | aaah, yes |
| 12:23.59 | ShadowJK | There's free space, but in small chunks |
| 12:24.00 | kerio | ShadowJK: is it worth it to make my partitions 4M-aligned on a uSD? |
| 12:24.05 | ShadowJK | kerio, sure |
| 12:24.13 | kerio | even the swap partitions? |
| 12:24.17 | kerio | don't they have some kind of header? |
| 12:24.17 | ShadowJK | especially |
| 12:24.20 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: naah, the space is free, but swap driver is unaware of it |
| 12:24.36 | MrPingu | am I getting ignored? This question isn't too hard for you guys ^^ |
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| 12:24.44 | freemangordon | I had to port/implement swapfree notifications in our kernel |
| 12:24.56 | ShadowJK | freemangordon, consider that it wrote over a gigabyte, but the amount of swap in use at any time never exceeded 140M |
| 12:25.06 | freemangordon | yes, I know that |
| 12:25.33 | freemangordon | but a swap sekto is not "freed" until a new request for the same sector comes |
| 12:25.41 | ShadowJK | The normal algorithm, if a swap sector is freed, goes back to that, if it's the "closest" one |
| 12:26.52 | freemangordon | which makes sense |
| 12:27.00 | freemangordon | to some extent |
| 12:27.46 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: do you know what eMMC eraseblock size is? |
| 12:27.59 | ShadowJK | So like, if a gig is written, but, let's say 100M of that is "permanent" in swap, and let's assume that permanent stuff is spread evenly with every write (write 400k, 4k is never modified again), doesn't that result over time in maximum free blocks of 400-4k? |
| 12:28.24 | ShadowJK | mmm, not sure, it's hard to benchmark properly. |
| 12:28.25 | freemangordon | I see |
| 12:28.31 | freemangordon | yeah |
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| 12:29.08 | freemangordon | but then reading/writing 4M at a time will still be slower than that |
| 12:29.31 | freemangordon | hopefully I have big enough cache space |
| 12:30.11 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: what do you think: |
| 12:30.14 | ShadowJK | So, if over time the average free block size converges towards 400kbyte, it's easy to see why the writes start to jump all over the place with time |
| 12:30.21 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 12:30.24 | freemangordon | so: |
| 12:31.08 | freemangordon | keep compressed pages in RAM(for fast access if needed) and in the same time keep them on disk, uncompressed |
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| 12:31.38 | freemangordon | write back to disk in a work queue, not in real-time |
| 12:32.35 | freemangordon | when RAM is full, decompress/write the last used pieces to disk, and free the RAM |
| 12:32.47 | freemangordon | ... |
| 12:32.52 | freemangordon | or something like that |
| 12:32.55 | ShadowJK | yeah |
| 12:33.20 | freemangordon | that way fragmrntation would not have any effect, as I'll buffer in compressed RAM |
| 12:33.42 | ShadowJK | Yeah if you write out in 4M chunks fragmentation stops being an issue |
| 12:33.56 | freemangordon | even if I have to write a page at a time, as it is backed by compressed RAM |
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| 12:35.22 | freemangordon | i.e. all flash access (except for reading a page not in compressed RAM) will be done via a work queue |
| 12:35.39 | ShadowJK | Then you'll have issues when a 4k subsection of something htat's already in swap gets modified by a process :) |
| 12:35.41 | freemangordon | though 4M seems to much to me |
| 12:36.27 | freemangordon | should not matter |
| 12:36.34 | kerio | hm, it appears that i *do* have my partitions 4M-aligned |
| 12:36.34 | freemangordon | aiui |
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| 12:36.43 | kerio | 16 sectors is 8M, right? |
| 12:36.50 | freemangordon | no |
| 12:36.51 | kerio | no wait |
| 12:36.53 | kerio | i'm an idiot lol |
| 12:37.02 | freemangordon | ~16*512 |
| 12:37.02 | infobot | 8192 |
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| 12:38.26 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: if something modified in RAM gets modified and needs to be swapped after that, will lead to freeing of the chunk in compressed RAM and allocation of another wone |
| 12:38.31 | ShadowJK | I've benchmarked many cards, but most of my benchmarks don't go far enough to put a number of block size :/ |
| 12:38.31 | freemangordon | *one |
| 12:39.25 | freemangordon | I wont put the contents of what needs to be in flash as some buffer assigned to the work queue |
| 12:39.50 | ShadowJK | freemangordon, yeah I just mean that it ends up in the same situation as with the nokia version, except with the difference that you don't take as much penalty from other simultaneous filesystem activity |
| 12:40.20 | freemangordon | well, stage 2 will be GC |
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| 12:41.16 | freemangordon | but I will have ti find eraseblock size, otherwise the underlying block device driver will mess the things |
| 12:41.41 | freemangordon | or find a way to tell him to not put my "write" requests in the queue |
| 12:42.19 | ShadowJK | Hm, most the cards I've tested I've only tested with block sizes of up to 512k |
| 12:42.29 | ShadowJK | but recently I've started testing to 4M |
| 12:43.15 | ShadowJK | So if I throw random reads at the device, the throughput should reach a plateau once the correct erase block size is used |
| 12:43.52 | freemangordon | ouch, we have a penalty for unaligned reads? |
| 12:43.59 | ShadowJK | no |
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| 12:44.06 | ShadowJK | Sorry I meant writes. |
| 12:44.12 | freemangordon | aah, ok :D |
| 12:44.23 | kerio | ShadowJK: do you reckon writing zeros to a partition on a uSD speed up the first writes you do to it afterwards? |
| 12:44.54 | kerio | i mean, are the controllers smart enough to keep the block erased instead of writing zeros to it? |
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| 12:45.15 | ShadowJK | Sandisk microsd 32g class 4: 16K: 22.49 kbyte/s, 128k: 127.77 kbyte/s, 1024: 977, 2048: 1854, 4096: 4133 kbyte/s |
| 12:45.15 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: assuming your partition is eraseblock aligned |
| 12:45.35 | ShadowJK | Yes I test on entire device without partition table |
| 12:45.41 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 12:45.46 | ShadowJK | kerio, I think erased blocks are 0xFF actually, all 1s |
| 12:46.36 | ShadowJK | Now for that sandisk card, each doubling of block size doubled throughput.. I bet, that if I had tested it at 8M, it wouldn't have gone much faster than that approx 4Megabyte/s... |
| 12:46.50 | kerio | ShadowJK: but... there's no /dev/one :( |
| 12:46.51 | freemangordon | cache? |
| 12:47.01 | ShadowJK | not in use |
| 12:48.37 | freemangordon | hmm, if I write 4M a time, I would block fs access to the filesystem |
| 12:48.43 | ShadowJK | hm, old sandisk 16 gigabyte USB flash drive, 1M:2M, 2M:4M, 4M:4.5M, my guess is 2M block size for that drive :) |
| 12:48.49 | freemangordon | s/filesystem/block device/ |
| 12:48.58 | kerio | ShadowJK: how big is the swap partition header? |
| 12:49.14 | freemangordon | 512? |
| 12:49.25 | kerio | won't that mess up the alignment? :( |
| 12:49.26 | freemangordon | kerio: good pint |
| 12:49.33 | freemangordon | point* |
| 12:49.40 | freemangordon | yes, it will |
| 12:49.53 | ShadowJK | freemangordon, well in theory with 4M erase blocks, in a heavy-write situation, a 4k write is going to be as expensive as a 4M write. The only things that are "free" are reads :) |
| 12:50.09 | kerio | hrmpf, should i move my partitions back one sector? |
| 12:50.10 | kerio | :) |
| 12:50.17 | SpeedEvil | reads are not fire |
| 12:50.21 | SpeedEvil | free |
| 12:50.25 | SpeedEvil | just cheap |
| 12:50.29 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 12:50.46 | freemangordon | well, that 4k write can be combined with other stuff by block driver |
| 12:51.07 | freemangordon | while nothing can stop my 4M write request |
| 12:51.10 | ShadowJK | I think one could get away with writing .5M of that 4M block, allow some reads to go through, then write another .5M, let some reads through, etc.. but interleaving other filesystem writes with swap writes is just going to make things slower most of the time |
| 12:51.26 | ShadowJK | Yeah so ideally we'd want a new disk scheduler too.. |
| 12:51.40 | ShadowJK | That better understands the costs |
| 12:51.47 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: the write itself will be slower, but swap responce not |
| 12:51.54 | RST38h | Are you trying to push ramzswap into Maemo5 or what? |
| 12:52.02 | SpeedEvil | http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=271080836262&index=22&nav=WATCHING&nid=38405072568 |
| 12:52.06 | freemangordon | as it is cached in compressed ram |
| 12:52.13 | SpeedEvil | surprisingly expensive |
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| 12:52.23 | freemangordon | RST38h: it is there for ages, but backing swap does not work ok |
| 12:52.26 | ShadowJK | freemangordon, I mean throughput on filesystem will be slower too |
| 12:52.36 | SpeedEvil | a linear swapper would be nice too |
| 12:52.45 | freemangordon | yeah, but we can do nithing in that regard |
| 12:52.46 | kerio | SpeedEvil: it's already linear |
| 12:52.58 | SpeedEvil | kerio: for the first pass |
| 12:52.59 | RST38h | freemangordon: I have seen people doing it, but it is definitely not there out of the box |
| 12:53.13 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, it needs garbage collection to become linear second time round |
| 12:53.16 | SpeedEvil | kerio: keeping it non fragmented gets more complex |
| 12:53.18 | RST38h | freemangordon: Nokians themselves say N900 has too small RAM for ramzswap |
| 12:53.20 | SpeedEvil | indeed |
| 12:53.38 | SpeedEvil | nokians said USB host mode was impossible |
| 12:53.46 | freemangordon | of course it is not in Nokia kernel, but is in KP for more than an year |
| 12:53.48 | SpeedEvil | (by implication) |
| 12:54.12 | RST38h | still too messy to bepractical =) |
| 12:54.19 | ShadowJK | I'd be interested in using a compressed buffer, to read in the "least occupied 4M block of swap", while device is idle, and idly collect together swap |
| 12:54.25 | freemangordon | RST38h: and if you keep dedicated RAM to a reasonable value, it helps sometimes |
| 12:54.31 | freemangordon | sometines not |
| 12:54.56 | ShadowJK | I find it challenging to get "hot" data in ramzswap and "stale" data in emmc swap |
| 12:55.12 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: basically a circular pointer, with the next written to block being the least occupied block, and you read before write to compress it |
| 12:55.23 | ShadowJK | Obviously the idea of backing swap, but backing swap as it is now is dead slow |
| 12:55.24 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: or similar |
| 12:55.45 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: we don;t need compressed data in backing swap |
| 12:55.45 | SpeedEvil | where block = 1m or whatever |
| 12:56.19 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, it's something like that right now, once it runs off the end, it sets its pointer to start of largest unoccupied area afaik |
| 12:56.46 | ShadowJK | it's just that those areas are ludicrously tiny |
| 12:56.57 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah' but the lack of integral defragmentation screws it |
| 12:57.45 | ShadowJK | Btw, I've sene situations where something unexpected (like accidentally opening a gigantic image in the browser) has pushed lots of stuff into swap, but after the browser was closed, there was a huge contiguous chunk free in swap, and on that swap graph it has then drawn a straight line through that freed block :) |
| 12:58.09 | kerio | ShadowJK: so... should my swap partitions be aligned to 4M - size of swap header? |
| 12:58.17 | freemangordon | guys, my idea is to have compressed RAM similar to L1 cache, and backing device similar to main memory |
| 12:58.24 | ShadowJK | kerio, I don't know what it does with the header |
| 12:58.47 | ShadowJK | freemangordon, yes |
| 12:59.32 | SpeedEvil | freemangordon: yeah, it's questionable what swap compression gets you. sure t can boost swap bandwidth from 12m to 30m (say) |
| 12:59.37 | freemangordon | with a L1 written back to the main memory in the background |
| 12:59.46 | SpeedEvil | but is that going to help much |
| 12:59.51 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: naah, it is much more |
| 13:00.18 | freemangordon | something like half of the bandwith of the RAM itself |
| 13:00.22 | freemangordon | or similar |
| 13:00.26 | ShadowJK | You know, I'd want to run an entire mmc behind some translation layer+gc ;) |
| 13:00.27 | SpeedEvil | wow |
| 13:00.28 | ShadowJK | that'd solve alot |
| 13:00.49 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: or a punch through to the raw band |
| 13:01.04 | SpeedEvil | NAND |
| 13:01.17 | ShadowJK | Then you'd still need a ftl in software ontop of that :) |
| 13:01.36 | SpeedEvil | plus a gig of ram on the SD card |
| 13:02.25 | freemangordon | well, I think I got enough info for the start, thanks a lot |
| 13:02.42 | kerio | SpeedEvil: you mean a 1GB SD card made of ram |
| 13:02.49 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 13:02.57 | kerio | it would be good, tho |
| 13:03.14 | SpeedEvil | current microsds are 9chips laminated together |
| 13:03.30 | SpeedEvil | if you make 2 of the 8 storage ram. |
| 13:03.57 | SpeedEvil | 48g ROM/2g ram |
| 13:04.13 | MrPingu | So I just did my first announce thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1282540#post1282540 :D |
| 13:04.50 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 13:05.00 | SpeedEvil | does it understand streams? |
| 13:05.14 | SpeedEvil | I mean will it understand |
| 13:05.16 | SpeedEvil | pat |
| 13:05.21 | SpeedEvil | tern |
| 13:07.47 | MrPingu | It should |
| 13:08.08 | SpeedEvil | tern |
| 13:08.09 | SpeedEvil | pat |
| 13:08.23 | SpeedEvil | if fragmented and out of order? |
| 13:08.59 | MrPingu | never used it before, though. I saw a guy asking for it on IRC so I saw it as oppurtunity to learn and serve the community |
| 13:09.09 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 13:09.45 | MrPingu | SpeedEvil: http://ngrep.sourceforge.net/usage.html |
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| 13:11.56 | SpeedEvil | I use a TCP logger for that sort of thing. |
| 13:12.05 | SpeedEvil | I've fortpgotten the name |
| 13:12.14 | SpeedEvil | interesting alternative though |
| 13:12.17 | MrPingu | SpeedEvil: TCPdump? :P |
| 13:12.25 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 13:12.53 | SpeedEvil | it reassembles TCP streams matching certain properties and saves them to disk |
| 13:13.21 | MrPingu | Actually, I also compiled a newer TCPdump, libpcap, hamster and ferret too |
| 13:13.25 | MrPingu | just needs packaging |
| 13:13.37 | MrPingu | and testing... |
| 13:13.44 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
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| 13:18.24 | kerio | ShadowJK: should i also repartition the eMMC to align the data to 4M? |
| 13:19.51 | kerio | i mean, is it worth it? |
| 13:20.48 | ShadowJK | 4k align is extremely important |
| 13:21.23 | kerio | also wtf, partition 2 does not end on cylinder boundary? |
| 13:21.27 | ShadowJK | 4m is exta bonus |
| 13:21.32 | kerio | the end of the eMMC is not on a boundary? |
| 13:21.33 | kerio | :s |
| 13:21.54 | kerio | oh balls |
| 13:22.03 | kerio | it ends one sector before the end, for some reason |
| 13:22.07 | ShadowJK | cylinders are obsolete |
| 13:22.27 | kerio | yeah but i'm wasting 512 bytes on my optfs |
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| 13:30.27 | jaska | dooom |
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| 13:37.53 | kerio | jaska: i paid for those 512 bytes! |
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| 13:47.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | no, those were a free gift on top |
| 13:48.05 | kerio | i'd repartition the eMMC, but... eeeeeh |
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| 13:49.39 | kerio | Pali: can i move bootmenu.scr and bootmenu.img.d from MyDocs to the uSD? |
| 13:49.51 | Pali | no |
| 13:50.03 | kerio | :c |
| 13:50.10 | Pali | uboot loading only bootmenu.scr from MyDocs |
| 13:50.23 | kerio | Pali: that's some BS, what if there's no MyDocs? |
| 13:50.46 | Pali | then fallbacking to default menu entry |
| 13:50.58 | kerio | meh, i suppose that's fair |
| 13:51.12 | Pali | but first eMMC parition is needed for maemo (and is FAT32) |
| 13:51.14 | kerio | Pali: is there a way to load a config file from the uboot command line? |
| 13:51.17 | Pali | and uboot use it |
| 13:51.29 | Pali | kerio, it is not config file, but uboot hush script |
| 13:51.36 | Pali | and yes, you can do it |
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| 13:51.45 | kerio | ok, so it's not really a big deal |
| 13:51.46 | kerio | cool |
| 13:52.01 | Pali | first need to learn uboot hush scripting |
| 13:52.37 | Pali | boot from sd card also trying to run script 'boot.scr' from any sd card paritition (fat, ext2/3/4) |
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| 13:54.12 | kerio | is bootmenu something implemented in the .scr, or is that just a config file for it? |
| 13:57.13 | kerio | it could be neat to load a submenu from the uSD |
| 13:57.26 | kerio | that's only configured there |
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| 14:19.38 | kerio | ~seen robbiethe1st |
| 14:19.40 | infobot | robbiethe1st <~robbiethe@50-37-93-93.mscw.id.frontiernet.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12h 24m 14s ago, saying: 'http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/backupmenu/1.2.0-1/ Give me karma'. |
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| 14:26.28 | Pali | kerio, bootmenu is uboot command |
| 14:26.59 | Pali | and bootmenu.scr is only uboot hush script which set some env and run bootmenu |
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| 14:38.03 | entitled | weird |
| 14:38.34 | entitled | my second n900 booted up with "dead" display |
| 14:38.44 | entitled | sound, keyboard light etc worked fine |
| 14:39.12 | entitled | shutdown, removal of battery fixed it |
| 14:39.56 | entitled | it has been sitting on my shelf and is hardly used, almost in mint condition. |
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| 14:51.17 | vi_ | entitled: accidental act-dead? |
| 14:51.55 | entitled | ? |
| 14:52.11 | entitled | now idea what happened |
| 14:52.15 | entitled | no |
| 14:52.17 | vi_ | neither do I |
| 14:52.47 | entitled | it's also nearly clean install |
| 14:53.51 | entitled | rootsh, openssh client+server, FAM, that's all |
| 14:56.02 | entitled | just about to reflash it again and install thumb2 |
| 15:01.42 | kerio | yay thumb2 ^_^ |
| 15:02.48 | entitled | has three n900 with me now |
| 15:03.38 | entitled | third one is friend's, it got wet and won't boot anymore, was erratic for a while (screen flashing etc) |
| 15:04.07 | entitled | i'll try drying it up and if that won't help, then dismantle it and see if there is any rust to be removed |
| 15:04.23 | kerio | entitled: when did you get it? |
| 15:07.27 | entitled | today |
| 15:07.37 | entitled | the damage happened months ago |
| 15:07.40 | entitled | rain water |
| 15:07.47 | entitled | so it might not be that bad |
| 15:08.00 | entitled | with tap water it would be way more corroded |
| 15:09.21 | entitled | fff |
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| 15:16.22 | entitled | reflashing is always bit nerving |
| 15:16.48 | entitled | forgot to remove the battery after the EMMC |
| 15:17.13 | entitled | so did it all again just in case |
| 15:17.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | not much hope for your rain-dancer |
| 15:18.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | :.( |
| 15:18.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | electrolytic corrosion |
| 15:20.18 | entitled | we'll see |
| 15:20.37 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: what's the procedure for water damage again? |
| 15:20.38 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@192.91.66.186) |
| 15:20.43 | kerio | with a non-empty bupbat |
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| 15:21.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | rinse with even more water, then with distilled water, then 99%ethanol |
| 15:21.48 | entitled | distilled water and IPA was n my plans |
| 15:22.01 | entitled | no chance for anhydrous alcohol |
| 15:22.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | or did you mean the 'remove battery *immediately*' |
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| 15:22.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: there are two batteries in the n900 |
| 15:22.20 | entitled | anhydrous acetic acid yeah but no, no alcohol :D |
| 15:22.25 | kerio | and only one is easily removable :) |
| 15:22.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah |
| 15:22.53 | kerio | do you have to remove both? |
| 15:23.34 | entitled | btw, is there need to unplug and unplug the usb cable between any rootfs/emmc/emmc flashing? |
| 15:23.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | you cant remove bupbat |
| 15:23.58 | SpeedEvil | I did the above with an entire laptop (not diaplay) a couple of months at |
| 15:24.04 | SpeedEvil | ago |
| 15:24.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: :o |
| 15:24.08 | kerio | why |
| 15:24.08 | kerio | ? |
| 15:24.15 | SpeedEvil | pulled ram, HD, washed it all. |
| 15:24.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | and damage from bupbat possibly limited |
| 15:24.23 | entitled | it booted up (to some point, can't remember) when I plugged the cable again, after emmc and no battery removing |
| 15:24.34 | SpeedEvil | (it had drunk a lot of coffee) |
| 15:25.17 | kerio | entitled: flash combined with -R, and keep holding u, then flash vanilla without -R and then combined with |
| 15:25.28 | kerio | -R is for reboot |
| 15:25.38 | entitled | yeah I know |
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| 15:26.03 | entitled | why reboot at the FIRST rootfs flash? |
| 15:26.27 | kerio | because the first flash is to ensure your system isn't too fucked up to flash vanilla |
| 15:27.07 | kerio | you need a working rootfs to flash vanilla, but after flashing vanilla you MUST flash rootfs |
| 15:27.11 | kerio | or at least make sure you never booted from it |
| 15:27.33 | entitled | ah |
| 15:28.10 | entitled | didn't know it's recommended to reboot it once after the first rootfs flash |
| 15:30.43 | kerio | note: if you have a somewhat working fremantle install, you can skip the first or the last combined flash |
| 15:31.16 | kerio | if you don't care about restoring factory conditions for MyDocs, you can skip the flashing of vanilla |
| 15:31.31 | kerio | MyDocs and the rest of eMMC, actually, but still |
| 15:31.47 | entitled | yeah |
| 15:32.44 | entitled | I could have probably skipped the eMMC with this as it was so clean to begin with |
| 15:33.24 | entitled | but I do it just in case if there's any dirt in there |
| 15:33.29 | kerio | indeed |
| 15:33.53 | kerio | i wonder if there's a way to "garbage collect" CAL |
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| 15:35.03 | kerio | a proper cleanup would be "dump current CAL data, flash_eraseall /dev/mtd*, write CAL data back, write zeros to eMMC, flash COMBINED/VANILLA/COMBINED" |
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| 15:49.16 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, did you get the scroll wheel to work properly on the Bluetooth MX Revolution? |
| 15:50.51 | kerio | Pali: hm, what's the garbage at the beginning of bootmenu.scr? :o |
| 15:51.12 | Pali | kerio, signature |
| 15:51.21 | Pali | it is also mkimage generated |
| 15:51.46 | Pali | uboot can load only mkimage files (scripts, kernels, initrd, ...) |
| 15:51.49 | kerio | uboot is really demanding! :c |
| 15:54.44 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host249-56-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:56.06 | akls | Anybody using russian keyboard layout? |
| 15:57.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 15:57.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: |
| 15:58.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mx-revolution/ |
| 15:59.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: the nice thing: it's sticky in mouse-mpu |
| 16:01.38 | GeneralAntilles | The Bluetooth version doesn't work with any of the OS X mouse drivers. |
| 16:01.53 | GeneralAntilles | So I'm using it on the laptop, but I hadn't been able to get it figured out so far. |
| 16:02.14 | GeneralAntilles | The RF version works out-of-the-box with Linux Mint, though. Which was cool. |
| 16:03.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got both here now |
| 16:03.20 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks, I'll take a look at this tonight. |
| 16:03.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 16:03.33 | GeneralAntilles | I broke down and ordered a used NIB MX Revolution (RF) from Amazon this morning. |
| 16:03.36 | GeneralAntilles | $135. |
| 16:03.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 16:03.51 | GeneralAntilles | Wish I had thought to stock up on them when they were on sale being discontinued. |
| 16:04.06 | GeneralAntilles | Well, it's basically the perfect mouse |
| 16:04.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 16:04.14 | GeneralAntilles | I get about 3-4 years out of them. |
| 16:04.15 | GeneralAntilles | So |
| 16:04.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | though my MMB again fsckd |
| 16:05.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, not again, since I never changed that critter (SMT) |
| 16:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | the new one is at office now, and guess what - our sysadm refuses to install the friggin trackpoint.exe or what's the name, for me. So the whole mouse is in default mode, and not even 7-button |
| 16:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | TWO real and two mousewhell-buttons |
| 16:07.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | so even worse than the crappy dell mouse I had to use before |
| 16:07.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | modulo the revolution wheel |
| 16:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess I have to quit this job, they're mobbing me out with such BS |
| 16:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | (no horizontal scrolling in winXP) |
| 16:09.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 16:10.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even outlook (which was evil enough), but lotus domino webmailer OMFG |
| 16:11.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | rationale: "we need to keep up productivity - imagine every of our 300 employees comes with *own* mouse" |
| 16:11.26 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host249-56-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:11.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the F**K is with MY productivity??? |
| 16:11.49 | RST38h | So, what is wrong about that? |
| 16:12.14 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777 (~Pffbt@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 16:12.55 | RST38h | Doc: Your next email request should contain your manager and that bozo's manager in the CC: field |
| 16:13.05 | akls | DocScrutinizer05, sure? who? |
| 16:13.30 | Snafu777 | WHo did what? |
| 16:13.39 | akls | who is using russian keyboard layout? |
| 16:13.42 | RST38h | Doc: And contain a clear explanation about whose productivity you would like to keep up, as a comment to the quoted statement from the bozo |
| 16:14.03 | RST38h | Doc: And yes, even although he will be in the To: field, he is not the one you are sending it to =) |
| 16:15.06 | entitled | um, I only see 5 items in community ssu (thumb) and (testing-thumb)? |
| 16:15.55 | RST38h | (and, if the it bozo were really smart, he would have framed it as a question about who can guarantee that trackpad.exe is not a security risk) |
| 16:17.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | my manager is boss of that company, and I'm not sure he really cares |
| 16:18.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | akls: ?? |
| 16:18.51 | Snafu777 | Want me to make a phone call? I'll ask for bozo and launch explain.bat |
| 16:19.04 | akls | DocScrutinizer05, Anybody using russian keyboard layout? |
| 16:19.18 | akls | I mean.. is there any person here to help me setting it up |
| 16:19.50 | GeneralAntilles | It's tough using non-optimal inputs. |
| 16:20.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | indeed |
| 16:21.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | and that lotus domino webmailer is DA FAQ |
| 16:21.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | I mean, so fsck it doesn't work at all under FF |
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| 16:53.00 | freemangordon | akls: still fighting with it? |
| 16:53.07 | akls | freemangordon, yes |
| 16:53.08 | freemangordon | try ukeyboard |
| 16:53.21 | freemangordon | akls: ^^^ |
| 16:53.22 | *** join/#maemo ilink_sycbase (~i_k@92.40.254.111.threembb.co.uk) |
| 16:53.55 | akls | on screen layouts? |
| 16:54.04 | akls | I have no problems with virtual keyboard |
| 16:54.12 | akls | I want a hardware russian keyboard |
| 16:54.24 | akls | it's there, but if I enable it then it breaks latin layout |
| 16:56.42 | freemangordon | akls: try it |
| 16:57.21 | freemangordon | it comes with its own vkb files |
| 16:58.00 | freemangordon | akls: |
| 16:58.09 | freemangordon | did you try to change languages order? |
| 16:58.14 | akls | freemangordon, is it going to help me with my HARDWARE keyboard? |
| 16:58.21 | akls | i mean the realy physical keyboard |
| 16:58.23 | akls | real* |
| 16:58.35 | akls | freemangordon, that's a good idea! |
| 16:58.38 | akls | let me try it.. |
| 16:58.47 | freemangordon | akls: I amn not that stupid, thanks. I understand your question pretty well ;) |
| 17:00.04 | freemangordon | akls: you may also try extkbd if changing order and uleyboard does not help |
| 17:00.37 | freemangordon | extkbd comes with newer kbd data for RX-51 |
| 17:01.11 | akls | changing order didn't help |
| 17:01.18 | kerio | freemangordon: wait, what? |
| 17:01.23 | akls | I'll try ukeyboard now |
| 17:01.24 | kerio | new kbd data for rx-51? :O |
| 17:01.37 | kerio | i thought it was a generic xkb update |
| 17:01.55 | freemangordon | yes, it is |
| 17:02.05 | freemangordon | newer version of xkb-data |
| 17:02.39 | freemangordon | kerio: I have NFC whether someone didn;t messed with akls' xkb-data |
| 17:03.03 | akls | I've tried reflashing, it didn't help |
| 17:03.11 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 17:03.26 | freemangordon | extkbd won't help then |
| 17:04.11 | akls | so, when switching to latin keyboard somehow it doesn't update arrow keys |
| 17:04.12 | freemangordon | akls: ukeyboard remap not only VKB, but HW kbd too. At least it does that for bulgarian :) |
| 17:04.37 | akls | is there any file describing latin keyboard layout? |
| 17:04.45 | freemangordon | akls: I think we were wrong yesterday when we told you to set HW layout to russion |
| 17:04.50 | freemangordon | *russian |
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| 17:05.09 | freemangordon | you should keep englis(finland or whatever) |
| 17:05.21 | akls | ok, but how can I use russian then? |
| 17:05.39 | freemangordon | ctrl-space should work. install ukeyboard and try it |
| 17:06.13 | akls | installing |
| 17:06.18 | freemangordon | though I can swear russion should work without ukeyboard |
| 17:06.24 | freemangordon | damn |
| 17:06.28 | freemangordon | *russian |
| 17:06.46 | freemangordon | int_ua: ping |
| 17:07.44 | akls | freemangordon, maybe I'm doing something completely wrong? |
| 17:07.56 | *** join/#maemo spoofy (~spoofy@e151.rwd.prospect.pl) |
| 17:08.08 | akls | freemangordon, current setup: hardware layout: English, Nederlands |
| 17:08.15 | akls | 1st language English (USA) |
| 17:08.18 | RST38h | Right |
| 17:08.21 | akls | 2nd language Русский |
| 17:08.22 | freemangordon | akls: hmm, my second device don't have ukeyboard, lemme see how it behaves |
| 17:08.29 | RST38h | Click on the secondlanguage |
| 17:08.34 | RST38h | Select Russian |
| 17:08.40 | freemangordon | RST38h: ^^^ |
| 17:08.52 | akls | yep, now if I type something I'll get english letters |
| 17:08.54 | freemangordon | he already did that |
| 17:08.57 | RST38h | Be aware that it sucks, misses the soft sign and I think "yu" |
| 17:08.58 | akls | then I press ctrl+space |
| 17:09.08 | akls | it says that now it's changed to RUSSIAN |
| 17:09.13 | RST38h | good |
| 17:09.14 | akls | sounds good, but it's still english |
| 17:09.29 | RST38h | seems to remember this problem |
| 17:09.34 | RST38h | Ah, I remember now |
| 17:09.40 | freemangordon | RST38h: ukeyboard? |
| 17:09.47 | RST38h | fuck ukeyboard |
| 17:09.50 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 17:10.06 | RST38h | It is a bug in the Maemo5 firmware that only switches virtual keyboard but not the physical one |
| 17:10.18 | freemangordon | I have bulgarian phonetic thanks to it, so long live ukeyboard |
| 17:10.40 | RST38h | The switch actually DOES work, if you have got a device built for the Russian market |
| 17:10.58 | RST38h | This problem is fixable by swapping a few layout files on the device. |
| 17:11.10 | akls | I have Global thing installed |
| 17:11.13 | freemangordon | akls: try ukeyboard |
| 17:11.20 | akls | maybe I should have installed something else |
| 17:11.28 | akls | freemangordon, already! Nothing has changed |
| 17:11.35 | freemangordon | hmm, lemme try here |
| 17:11.37 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 17:11.49 | akls | I can set hw layout to russian |
| 17:11.55 | akls | and it's going to work PARTIALLY |
| 17:12.05 | akls | so when I change back to Latin, arrows keys are still russian |
| 17:12.17 | akls | maybe there's any way to fix that? Any file describing Latin layout? |
| 17:12.30 | freemangordon | akls: WFM |
| 17:12.42 | RST38h | akls: Read here: there is a layout file for that |
| 17:13.00 | akls | RST38h, where? |
| 17:13.02 | freemangordon | RST38h: wait a minute, it works here |
| 17:13.12 | RST38h | a moment |
| 17:13.13 | freemangordon | without messing with .vkb files |
| 17:13.19 | akls | freemangordon, and what is wfm |
| 17:13.24 | freemangordon | ~wfm |
| 17:13.24 | infobot | methinks wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications.. Works For Me |
| 17:13.27 | RST38h | akls: http://habrahabr.ru/qa/4130/ |
| 17:13.30 | freemangordon | works for me |
| 17:13.51 | RST38h | akls: http://n8xx.com/topic3827-foneticheskie-raskladki-dlya-ne-kirilicheskikh-klaviatur.html |
| 17:15.32 | freemangordon | ukeyboard has "Русский - Phonetic" layout |
| 17:16.06 | freemangordon | thou it does not work :D |
| 17:16.33 | RST38h | built in kbd firmware works |
| 17:16.37 | RST38h | just needs a file |
| 17:17.22 | RST38h | other folks (israelis, greeks, bulgarians, georgians) are in a way worse position than russians though, no built in layout for them |
| 17:17.57 | RST38h | boots up his n900, will have layout file in a moment |
| 17:18.01 | freemangordon | strangely "Български - phonetic" with second language "Русский" works ok :D:D:D |
| 17:18.16 | RST38h | phonetic is for wussies |
| 17:18.41 | RST38h | real men (tm) remember their JCUKENG by touch |
| 17:18.53 | akls | interesting thing. /usr/bin/osso-product-info says that OSSO_PRODUCT_KEYBOARD='German' |
| 17:18.55 | akls | interesting |
| 17:19.12 | RST38h | akls: got AZERTY? |
| 17:19.18 | akls | NOPE. |
| 17:19.22 | akls | it is qwerty |
| 17:19.23 | RST38h | weird indeed |
| 17:19.27 | akls | looks like us keyboard |
| 17:19.32 | akls | dunno, maybe it was changed |
| 17:19.38 | RST38h | that is actually Netherlands :) |
| 17:19.49 | RST38h | That is their default eu keyboard |
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| 17:20.02 | RST38h | There is also crooked russian (no arrows) and normal russian (arrows) |
| 17:23.38 | akls | so? :\ |
| 17:23.56 | akls | I'm reading stuff from these links |
| 17:24.00 | akls | but I can't find a fix |
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| 17:24.31 | akls | oh, by the way |
| 17:24.39 | akls | this thing WAS WORKING for a little while |
| 17:30.02 | akls | LOL |
| 17:30.31 | akls | Date format and decimal separator are defined by device language |
| 17:30.37 | akls | not by regional settings |
| 17:30.38 | akls | wtf? |
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| 17:32.05 | RST38h | akls: the whole ui thing has been dictated by some "user experience specialists" who had absolutely no idea about the real user experience |
| 17:32.12 | RST38h | so, do not judge it too harshly |
| 17:32.27 | akls | motherfuckers |
| 17:32.43 | RST38h | well, it is kinda academic now, with Nokia basically dead |
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| 17:34.19 | RST38h | akls: start with /etc/X11/xkb/base.xml |
| 17:36.03 | RST38h | Now, go to /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr |
| 17:36.28 | RST38h | You will see file called rx-51 there. You will have to replace it with a file I email you (please give your email address) |
| 17:37.53 | RST38h | ok |
| 17:38.15 | RST38h | sent |
| 17:38.49 | akls | anything I should do in /etc/X11/xkb/base.xml? |
| 17:39.17 | RST38h | nah |
| 17:39.20 | RST38h | not fornow |
| 17:39.36 | RST38h | opera-mobile got updated on maemo5 =) |
| 17:39.43 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@194-105-177-9.ifb.co.uk) |
| 17:39.44 | RST38h | those opera folks are so damn nice |
| 17:40.01 | vi__ | orhn is king of the bro s |
| 17:40.38 | vi__ | He is supporting a dead platform for nothing but the lulz |
| 17:41.03 | vi__ | what have I missed? |
| 17:41.24 | vi__ | Skry: did you solve the super modifier issue? |
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| 17:51.11 | akls | RST38h, the file is replaced |
| 17:51.14 | akls | now what? reboot? |
| 17:51.20 | akls | and which settings should I use now? |
| 17:52.39 | RST38h | enable russian as 2nd language and reboot |
| 17:53.00 | akls | and for hardware layout I should set Enlgish, Nederlands or what? |
| 17:53.19 | RST38h | as I have said - set it to English and Russian |
| 17:53.31 | akls | errr |
| 17:53.36 | akls | in Text input settings |
| 17:53.43 | RST38h | yes |
| 17:53.44 | akls | there's "Hardware keyboard layout" |
| 17:53.48 | RST38h | yes |
| 17:53.52 | akls | and "1st language" and "2nd language" |
| 17:54.02 | RST38h | set 2nd to russian |
| 17:54.15 | akls | and hardware keyboard layout to english? |
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| 17:55.28 | RST38h | russian |
| 17:55.33 | akls | oh |
| 17:56.04 | akls | holy shit |
| 17:56.11 | akls | desktop in portrait mode |
| 17:56.33 | RST38h | non penis canina, yes |
| 17:56.47 | akls | It's a first time I saw it working after upgrading :O |
| 17:57.29 | RST38h | that is cssu for you |
| 17:57.53 | akls | YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS |
| 17:57.57 | akls | YESSSSSSSS |
| 17:58.10 | RST38h | what? the keyboard finally works? |
| 17:58.17 | akls | yes! :) |
| 17:58.29 | akls | RST38h, thank you! |
| 17:58.32 | akls | just to make it clear |
| 17:58.40 | RST38h | ok |
| 17:58.43 | akls | RST38h, is that a file that describes the Latin layout? |
| 17:58.57 | RST38h | it is a file that describes all keyboard layouts |
| 17:59.06 | akls | oh |
| 17:59.07 | RST38h | it contains the "correct" definition of the russian keyoard |
| 17:59.15 | RST38h | as opposed to the crooked one with no arrows |
| 17:59.33 | akls | ok |
| 17:59.57 | akls | can it be added to the next upgrade so I wont need to do that again after reflashing? |
| 18:00.58 | RST38h | dunno |
| 18:03.08 | akls | RST38h, it even has all other characters in right positions! |
| 18:03.12 | akls | damn it! You're awesome! |
| 18:03.17 | RST38h | it still misses YU |
| 18:04.16 | akls | ... |
| 18:04.22 | akls | and how am I supposed to type then? |
| 18:04.33 | RST38h | I usually open virtual keyboard |
| 18:04.39 | akls | .......... |
| 18:04.40 | RST38h | or put IO :) |
| 18:05.01 | RST38h | Well, N97 keyboard missed B, if this makes you feel better |
| 18:05.27 | akls | is it possible to set down arrow as ю? |
| 18:05.47 | RST38h | you have got the file. you have got the text editor. you know what to do. |
| 18:06.02 | akls | alright |
| 18:06.19 | akls | but not today |
| 18:06.22 | akls | it's too late |
| 18:06.25 | akls | anyway, thank you very much! |
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| 19:31.02 | Skry | vi_: not yet at least, was distracted of the matter |
| 19:33.08 | raccoon_ | is it possible to RMA an n900 for broken usb connector even though i don't have any receipt for it? |
| 19:33.49 | raccoon_ | can i just send it to nokia or do i have to go through a retailer |
| 19:33.53 | SpeedEvil | when did you buy it? |
| 19:34.18 | SpeedEvil | if under 2 years ago, possibly. where are you? |
| 19:34.22 | raccoon_ | sweden |
| 19:34.44 | SpeedEvil | and you aren't the person who bought a n900 off eBay a few hours agowi no USB? |
| 19:34.46 | raccoon_ | yeah i bought it second hand this spring, was a christmast present that didnt come to use |
| 19:34.47 | SpeedEvil | with |
| 19:34.50 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 19:34.56 | raccoon_ | -t |
| 19:35.14 | SpeedEvil | I mean, if it was originally purchased under 2 years ago |
| 19:35.27 | raccoon_ | no i have had since then but the usb connector broke instantly and i got a bit depressed over it |
| 19:35.33 | raccoon_ | yeah it was probably bought in december 2011 |
| 19:35.35 | raccoon_ | or very close to it |
| 19:35.36 | SpeedEvil | you will not get a n900 back, even if yo can. |
| 19:35.45 | raccoon_ | oh |
| 19:35.48 | raccoon_ | but i want this one .... |
| 19:35.50 | raccoon_ | :) |
| 19:35.54 | raccoon_ | better get someone else to fix it though |
| 19:35.57 | raccoon_ | *then |
| 19:36.14 | SpeedEvil | last year this time, people were getting other phones |
| 19:36.16 | raccoon_ | my nerves are not good enough for the precision soldering of that connector |
| 19:36.33 | raccoon_ | ah, aight... wont send it to nokia then |
| 19:37.56 | raccoon_ | i have an external charger and an extra battery, so it's usable |
| 19:38.29 | raccoon_ | and i really like what i see... but i have to reset the clock each night to charge the battery, and can't use usb for file transfer/modem |
| 19:42.19 | SpeedEvil | it is annoying, yes. |
| 19:42.28 | akls | damn |
| 19:42.35 | akls | now I'm a bit annoyed |
| 19:42.51 | akls | I want to change vfat partition to ext3 |
| 19:43.13 | akls | and there is no good tutorial... |
| 19:43.19 | akls | http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash |
| 19:43.32 | akls | this one is nice, gives 8 ways, none of them are really usable |
| 19:43.35 | akls | for my case |
| 19:43.38 | akls | or I'm dumb |
| 19:46.02 | SpeedEvil | from memory, I tarred up everything g from mydocs to home, deleted mydocs, made a new 4g partition with same ids, and fat, then a ext3 partition filling the rest of the space |
| 19:46.30 | SpeedEvil | then a hacky script, run through 'queen beecon' to mount it when the ui came up |
| 19:59.59 | raccoon_ | has anyone seen a thread on the maemo boards that mentions any members that might have voulentereed to fix broken usb connectors? for payment of course |
| 20:00.19 | raccoon_ | i see a thread that mentions people that can help with pre-fail fixes but mine is already loose |
| 20:01.36 | akls | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=436216&postcount=2 |
| 20:01.38 | ShadowJK | postfail depends on whether the connector fell off, or if the part of circuitboard it was attached to tore off |
| 20:01.43 | akls | so I can't change my vfat partition to ext3? |
| 20:01.53 | akls | or can I? |
| 20:02.09 | raccoon_ | ShadowJK: the connector fell off, the pads are still there |
| 20:03.35 | raccoon_ | i tried soldering it back and it worked for a while but fell of again |
| 20:03.48 | raccoon_ | so i need to get hold of someone with better precision soldering skills |
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| 20:23.38 | Skry | raccoon_: bit more solder and enough heat, you can do it :) |
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| 20:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | raccoon_: any good repair shop will fix it |
| 20:29.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably even those "frenchise" " Nokia (et al)" phoneshops |
| 20:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | raccoon_: where you're located? |
| 20:31.22 | Skry | i think he said sweden |
| 20:31.23 | raccoon_ | DocScrutinizer05: sweden |
| 20:31.26 | raccoon_ | yup |
| 20:31.50 | raccoon_ | Skry: yeah i think i'll begin with ordering a few of those ports and maybe at least give it one more shot |
| 20:32.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | in Sweden there should be similar 'free' phoneshops like here in Germany |
| 20:32.11 | raccoon_ | yeah theres a few |
| 20:32.27 | raccoon_ | i recently fixed my macbook lcd at a place, could go there and ask about the phone |
| 20:33.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly suggest you either let some professional do the job, or you find a few old 5EUR mobile phones to practice on them |
| 20:34.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | one advice nevertheless: for the huge solder blobs at left and right of USB you need a rather heavy iron, some 50, maybe 70W |
| 20:34.17 | ShadowJK | I've seen a "Elgigantten" shop in Finland that had oscilloscopes and irons in their repair section, that looked confidence inspiring enough |
| 20:34.28 | RST38h | suddenly notices that he has never yet sacrificed a racoon to the Tentacled One |
| 20:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the ground planes are huge and take a lot of heat away |
| 20:34.37 | RST38h | Hm |
| 20:35.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the contacst you need mor like a 5..7W needle |
| 20:35.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | contacs |
| 20:35.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 20:36.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: sounds good, yeah |
| 20:37.00 | Skry | yeah, Gigantti, like the last place anyone should ever take anything :) |
| 20:40.38 | RST38h | What is it? A Nordic Radioshack? |
| 20:42.28 | raccoon_ | ShadowJK: yeah we have elgiganten here in town too, could ask the mtoo |
| 20:42.31 | raccoon_ | *them too |
| 20:42.37 | raccoon_ | thanks for all the advice people |
| 20:44.56 | ShadowJK | Skry, it all depends on finding the one guy that can operate that repair equipment. I've almost never seen anyone use that equipment though |
| 20:47.18 | Skry | ShadowJK: yeah, at least in this town, those guys over there probably have never even seen an iron before, and generally try to avoid customers if in any way possible. |
| 20:47.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, they found their final professional destiny then |
| 20:50.23 | akls | is there any skype client or only that integrated thing? |
| 20:50.51 | ShadowJK | integrated thing |
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| 21:18.50 | vi__ | ~seen marxian |
| 21:18.55 | infobot | i haven't seen 'marxian', vi__ |
| 21:19.11 | vi__ | ~seen your peen |
| 21:19.12 | infobot | vi__: i haven't seen 'your peen' |
| 21:19.24 | vi__ | ~seen marxian |
| 21:19.25 | infobot | vi__: i haven't seen 'marxian' |
| 21:19.32 | vi__ | wtf |
| 21:19.42 | vi__ | why the first is different? |
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| 21:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 21:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's different? |
| 21:45.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, the first |
| 21:45.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, she's eloquent |
| 21:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn |
| 21:45.44 | infobot | good coffee |
| 21:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn |
| 21:45.49 | infobot | methinks xyawn is big coffee |
| 21:45.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn |
| 21:45.55 | infobot | rumour has it, xyawn is strong coffee |
| 21:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart vi__ |
| 21:46.55 | infobot | takes out a cattle prod and gives vi__ a good jolt |
| 21:47.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart vi__ |
| 21:47.07 | infobot | offers vi__ some herring |
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| 22:08.10 | Woody14619b | Off for the weekend... have fun everyone. |
| 22:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | congrats to board, and also to woody ;-D |
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| 22:36.16 | Skry | useless statistic of the day: full charge equals roughly about 10h as distcc master (through wlan, -j 6) |
| 22:36.54 | SpeedEvil | yowie. |
| 22:37.22 | SpeedEvil | that's three n900s in a row on eBay with no USB port gone at over 50 quid |
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| 22:57.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | ouffff |
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