| 00:01.31 | SpeedEvil | I'm truly surprised at what n900s are still going for on eBay |
| 00:01.41 | RST38h | How about n950s? |
| 00:03.20 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~Hurrian@120.28.22.150) |
| 00:06.00 | ShadowJK | I wish there was a way in android to make arbitrary apps not freeze when you switch to another app. But then again, I have a suspicion all the powersaving relies on this freeze-the-world model, and there'd be a few magnitudes more powerdrain issues with it compare to maemo. |
| 00:06.10 | SpeedEvil | :-\ tempting |
| 00:06.18 | SpeedEvil | indeed |
| 00:06.27 | RST38h | It is not even freezing |
| 00:06.30 | SpeedEvil | and to do it right would be hard. |
| 00:06.37 | SpeedEvil | it can be freezing |
| 00:06.38 | RST38h | It is Suspend/Resume model like Maemo3 had |
| 00:06.57 | RST38h | Before Maemo folks figured out the trick of deep-sleeping on I/O |
| 00:07.18 | RST38h | So, there are Java handlers that are supposed to save app state explicitely on Suspend |
| 00:07.18 | ShadowJK | Sometimes it's just freeze, sometimes it's restart to saved state |
| 00:07.31 | SpeedEvil | I want to be able to play video with flash, or use a chat site based around flahpsh with Firefox in the background |
| 00:07.39 | RST38h | ShadowJK: It is never "freeze" in the classical sense (i.e. thombstoning) |
| 00:07.53 | SpeedEvil | but I also want it to freeze when it's not doing that |
| 00:07.53 | ShadowJK | only started using Maemo at maemo4, and the only app that seems to do the save state thingy properly is "Notes" |
| 00:07.54 | RST38h | ShadowJK: If you do not explicitely save and restore state, you are fucked. |
| 00:08.30 | RST38h | Maemo4 actually still had the suspend/resume mechanism and it was documented at great length |
| 00:08.46 | RST38h | I had to explain to a few people that this stuff is no longer relevant |
| 00:09.03 | ShadowJK | Well I mean that I can notice a difference in android when apps were just "suspended" compared to when they were unloaded and restarted from some saved state |
| 00:09.47 | SpeedEvil | depends on the app |
| 00:09.57 | ShadowJK | I remember reading the suspend/resume mechanism in the maemo docs, and thought it was kinda amusing considering no app implements it |
| 00:10.03 | SpeedEvil | some come IP fast enough |
| 00:10.23 | SpeedEvil | and to a close enough sate |
| 00:10.27 | SpeedEvil | state |
| 00:11.40 | ShadowJK | Well like if I play a RC Heli simulator game, and switch to browser, and then back to heli sim, sometimes the heli sim resumes exactly where I was, sometimes it goes back to main menu. Browser sometimes resumes exactly where I was, sometimes displays grayed out contents, and then I have to activate every fucking tab again and wait for everything to redownload from the internet again. The whole point of tabs is to avoid loading times :-( |
| 00:11.55 | SpeedEvil | exactly |
| 00:12.16 | SpeedEvil | especially irritating when you know there's lots of free ram |
| 00:12.43 | ShadowJK | After Jelly Bean upgrade I don't see more than about 300M free at best. |
| 00:12.49 | ShadowJK | How can it burn so much ram :-( |
| 00:13.32 | SpeedEvil | that too |
| 00:15.02 | ShadowJK | Also, the vkb has more stutter and lag than in maemo. That's without swap, with more keep-memory-free policies than maemo, with 4 times the memory, with 4 cores running at 3X the speed of the N900's single core. Incredible :) |
| 00:15.16 | Hurrian | iirc if an app doesn't have a taskbar icon, it gets killed the next time memory is cleaned. |
| 00:15.56 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Well, you are supposed to save state on Destroy |
| 00:16.05 | RST38h | ShadowJK: But it is best to save it on Suspend =) |
| 00:16.42 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Because with the way Android works, the Destroy() may get called a day from now, and not all of your app will still be intact then =) |
| 00:17.19 | RST38h | Suspend is more like receiving a focus-out event, although there is a separate focus-out in Android as well |
| 00:17.43 | ShadowJK | So you're telling me as user, how programmers should implement one of the most annoying features of anroid properly? :-) |
| 00:17.45 | RST38h | I hope now you see why a ritual animal sacrifice is a necessary element of ANdroid programming |
| 00:18.09 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Just holding you above the abyss and making you watch =) |
| 00:18.09 | ShadowJK | I'd be more into a way of disabling it :-( |
| 00:18.27 | RST38h | Can't disable this crap, it is too deeply embedded |
| 00:18.52 | SpeedEvil | wishes there was some way to run stock accelerated x, even without android on the nexus 7 |
| 00:19.05 | RST38h | + there is another problem: out of 1GB of RAM, you are usually only left with 60-100MB because the rest gets eaten by all those resident apps and services |
| 00:19.12 | ShadowJK | Because it's fucking annoying when switching away from the thing on the screen, when the thing on the screne happens to be playing music or similar, makes it stop, and then I switch back, and it has to re-establish network connections and it takes fucking ages, as punishment to remind that I can't do more than one thing at once |
| 00:19.17 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: I think there may be. Ask Stskeeps. |
| 00:19.48 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 00:19.54 | RST38h | ShadowJK: The writer of that thing-on-the-screen should declare it as a "service" to Android and then the OS won't kill it. |
| 00:20.01 | ShadowJK | RST38h, a website? |
| 00:20.09 | SpeedEvil | I have. n7 I dropped on a rock. :-\ |
| 00:20.10 | RST38h | ShadowJK: you are plaing stuff off a website? |
| 00:20.18 | SpeedEvil | no touchscreen anymore |
| 00:20.32 | RST38h | ShadowJK: get yourself a music player app instead, will you? |
| 00:20.45 | SpeedEvil | hence it's rather less use under android |
| 00:21.02 | ShadowJK | RST38h, I haven't found any that can extract the stream url from arbitrary websites yet :-) |
| 00:21.31 | SpeedEvil | rtmpdump |
| 00:21.33 | SpeedEvil | sorta |
| 00:22.03 | ShadowJK | I've actually got same site working on N900 in MPlayer, and it doesn't pause if I switch screen off or switch to IRC, thank god. |
| 00:22.35 | SpeedEvil | fun race condition. |
| 00:23.04 | SpeedEvil | stock media player, if you play a video, you can lock it before playing, and it doesn't notice |
| 00:23.12 | ShadowJK | Yeah :-) |
| 00:23.18 | SpeedEvil | that's another thing everyone fails at, |
| 00:23.34 | SpeedEvil | I don't always care abut the video on videos. |
| 00:23.37 | ShadowJK | It's useful for stuff where you mostly want to listen to the audio |
| 00:24.10 | ShadowJK | But if you suddenly want to see the video, and switch to it, and then switch away, it pauses :-( |
| 00:24.22 | ShadowJK | and you need extra trickery to resume audio only service :-( |
| 00:24.28 | ShadowJK | hasn't managed resume yet |
| 00:33.35 | ShadowJK | Some analysts recently concluded alot of people only have the TV on in the background, like sitting in couch surfing on tablet for sites and forums of a show while the show is on TV, and similar |
| 00:33.57 | ShadowJK | I think I'm where I'd want to do this on a single device instead of two |
| 00:34.26 | ShadowJK | the ctrl-backspace of N900 certainly feels as natural and as fast as refocusing eyes on TV across the sofa table :-) |
| 00:35.51 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, btw what IRC client do you use? |
| 00:36.00 | SpeedEvil | quassel |
| 00:36.09 | SpeedEvil | ^droid |
| 00:36.17 | ShadowJK | right |
| 00:36.42 | SpeedEvil | it has issues, but I have connection problems with my router (grr) |
| 00:37.03 | SpeedEvil | and it's at least open source |
| 00:37.44 | SpeedEvil | 'floatirc' looks interesting in principle |
| 00:38.04 | SpeedEvil | overlaying windows on other apps |
| 00:39.10 | ShadowJK | Samsung Note 2 looks interesting, seems able to run 2 arbitrary apps simultaneously |
| 00:39.23 | ShadowJK | It's sad when "2" is revolutionary :-( |
| 00:39.58 | SpeedEvil | :-\ |
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| 04:46.50 | foremost | hello |
| 04:47.55 | foremost | i have a problem with u-boot for maemo. if i install uboot-pr13 from extras devel i can boot maemo but not nitdroid, if i install pali's uboot from maemo.org i can boot nitdroid but not maemo |
| 04:48.23 | foremost | the kernel they use for booting is the same so i guess there is a problem with the bootloader |
| 04:48.42 | foremost | pali's bootloader hangs at starting kernel ... and then reboots |
| 04:49.03 | foremost | is there some option i have to pass to the kernel i'm not aware of? |
| 04:49.22 | foremost | the maemo installation is a clean maemo5 for n900, global |
| 04:59.48 | Sicelo | what hardware revision you have? |
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| 05:09.33 | Snafu777 | Foo powe |
| 05:09.45 | Snafu777 | Anyone up in here knowledgable bout osso-xterm and bash errors? |
| 05:09.59 | Snafu777 | I got an issue with a script i wrote that launches osso-xterm but fails to launch route -en |
| 05:10.04 | Snafu777 | could really use some help here.. |
| 05:10.05 | Snafu777 | plz |
| 05:12.55 | Snafu777 | Would much appreciate the debugging help...will give credit for the kudos....? |
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| 05:23.13 | Snafu777 | u guys suck |
| 05:23.17 | Snafu777 | just so ya know |
| 05:23.18 | foremost | Sicelo: how can i check the revision |
| 05:26.44 | Snafu777 | anyone up in the mofo? |
| 05:28.42 | Sicelo | lol Snafu777 |
| 05:28.50 | foremost | Sicelo: revision 2204 |
| 05:29.47 | Sicelo | foremost: known problem. i have same revision, and same problem. Pali & freemangordon were working on it.. i don't know current status |
| 05:31.06 | foremost | nice, thanks for the info |
| 05:31.18 | Sicelo | without recommending it, i think multiboot never had the problem, and was popular for nitdroid. |
| 05:31.39 | foremost | i'd rather not reflesh my kernel twice a day |
| 05:31.48 | Snafu777 | Anyone here down to help for a sec? |
| 05:31.56 | Sicelo | indeed. that's why i didn't recommend it :p |
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| 05:32.06 | foremost | also i tried to use it and once i flashed nitdroid i couldn't reflash maemo back |
| 05:32.17 | Snafu777 | I launch a command with osso-xterm and it doesnt recognize the route command |
| 05:32.48 | foremost | chechk the path, if you are not root |
| 05:33.22 | Snafu777 | me? foremost |
| 05:33.26 | foremost | yes |
| 05:33.31 | Snafu777 | not the issue |
| 05:33.36 | Snafu777 | hmm |
| 05:33.37 | Snafu777 | perhaps |
| 05:33.39 | Snafu777 | one sec |
| 05:38.59 | Snafu777 | nope |
| 05:39.01 | Snafu777 | isnt the issue |
| 05:39.05 | Snafu777 | i can run route as user |
| 05:39.17 | Snafu777 | U still there friend? |
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| 05:40.41 | foremost | what do youmean exactly by 'fails to launch'? |
| 05:42.05 | Snafu777 | Got an n900 handy? |
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| 05:44.25 | Snafu777 | ? |
| 05:46.49 | Snafu777 | foremost ? |
| 05:47.05 | foremost | i do |
| 05:47.36 | Snafu777 | sweet |
| 05:47.40 | Snafu777 | feel like troubleshootin for a sec |
| 05:47.43 | Snafu777 | im trying to figure this out |
| 05:47.45 | Snafu777 | but no dice |
| 05:48.38 | Snafu777 | Drop to a terminal |
| 05:48.41 | Snafu777 | and do |
| 05:48.43 | Snafu777 | svn checkout http://n900-stuff.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/hydrafy hydrafy |
| 05:48.48 | Snafu777 | let me know when u got it up eh? |
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| 05:53.10 | foremost | i'm sorry i really don't have that much time |
| 05:53.22 | foremost | if you tell me the error message maybe i know |
| 05:53.31 | foremost | if not i have to leave in 5 min |
| 05:53.36 | Snafu777 | its when osso-xterm is launched |
| 05:53.40 | Snafu777 | and route -en is ran |
| 05:53.44 | Snafu777 | route is not found |
| 05:53.49 | Snafu777 | but launching it is an issue |
| 05:53.55 | Snafu777 | it requires u to see the script to understand |
| 05:54.19 | Snafu777 | because of the goofiness of launching a text based script with a gui from /usr/share/applications/hildon/ |
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| 09:16.11 | tanty | Hey guys! Anyone knows if http://formeego.org is still alive? |
| 09:16.11 | tanty | Since several days |
| 09:16.11 | tanty | http://apps.formeego.org/ |
| 09:16.11 | tanty | shows the error: |
| 09:16.11 | tanty | " |
| 09:16.13 | tanty | <tanty> 504 Gateway Time-out |
| 09:16.15 | tanty | nginx/1.2.1 |
| 09:16.17 | tanty | " |
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| 09:16.19 | tanty | and |
| 09:16.21 | tanty | http://www.formeego.org/ |
| 09:16.23 | tanty | " |
| 09:16.25 | tanty | Sorry, maintenance in progress! |
| 09:16.27 | tanty | Our server had an hardware fault. Replacement hardware was delivered. We will be back online soon. |
| 09:16.29 | tanty | " |
| 09:16.31 | tanty | are they really under maintenance or has just shut down? |
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| 10:05.06 | eek | hi, i have a problem, i brick my phone with multiboot >_< i have a boot loop with kernel power 49, pr13 (flashed with flasher and started with multiboot and flasher) and kernel power 51 :( |
| 10:05.43 | jaska | for me ego |
| 10:07.27 | eek | i flashed with the only-kernel option, tried pr13, 49 and 51 and started with "init=/sbin/preinit_orig ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6" but no chance to get it working |
| 10:09.54 | eek | any idea :( |
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| 10:12.25 | ketas | jaska: me ego? :P |
| 10:13.37 | ketas | ma emo & me ego + harm at tan |
| 10:13.52 | jaska | heh |
| 10:14.23 | ketas | sad how nokia went to windows |
| 10:14.33 | ketas | business crap |
| 10:14.41 | jaska | i always thought of maemo as mämo |
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| 10:15.15 | ketas | emo, ego and harm... ugh |
| 10:15.23 | ketas | sounds harm-ful |
| 10:15.45 | jaska | suicidal? |
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| 10:17.12 | ketas | you know, we have such term as "estonian nokia" that refers to some success... now with e-flop, that might as well refer to some failure |
| 10:18.16 | ketas | maybe jolla devices in future |
| 10:18.30 | ketas | or you can hack those windows devices to run something else? |
| 10:22.33 | jacekowski | eek: flash the whole thing |
| 10:23.11 | jacekowski | wp is no a failure |
| 10:23.30 | jacekowski | they are getting quite a lot of market with it |
| 10:23.43 | jacekowski | not a failure* |
| 10:24.29 | eek | jacekowski: done QQ without a backup waaaa |
| 10:24.46 | eek | damn multiboot |
| 10:25.06 | jacekowski | eek: most important stuff is on emmc |
| 10:25.14 | jacekowski | eek: you can skip flashing that part |
| 10:25.19 | jacekowski | as in, mydocs is on emmc |
| 10:25.38 | eek | jacekowski: no, i flashed the card before with ubuntu 12.04 |
| 10:25.44 | eek | m( |
| 10:26.31 | jacekowski | not sd card, emmc |
| 10:26.38 | jacekowski | builtin 32G |
| 10:27.03 | eek | ah ok |
| 10:29.59 | eek | cool i love the n900, contacts and sms still exist :D |
| 10:31.18 | StyXman | canonical seems to be working in an ubuntu phone, they're looking for a project manager |
| 10:33.34 | jacekowski | like that's going to work |
| 10:35.18 | StyXman | dunno, but if it works, I migh go for one |
| 10:35.53 | StyXman | of course we're not talking about next year |
| 10:36.09 | jacekowski | or next 20 years |
| 10:36.15 | StyXman | heeh |
| 10:36.32 | jacekowski | ubuntu has no market share on desktops |
| 10:36.38 | jacekowski | and they are trying with phones |
| 10:44.33 | Lava_Croft | ubuntu :< |
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| 12:05.55 | vi_ | what is the main reason for the n900 missing calls? |
| 12:06.15 | vi_ | Is the 'phone' application being swapped out or something? |
| 12:07.26 | SpeedEvil | how does it miss calls |
| 12:07.46 | kerio | eek: why are you using multiboot |
| 12:07.48 | kerio | it's awful |
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| 12:12.55 | kerio | jacekowski: ubuntu used to be the distro techies install on non-techies' computers |
| 12:13.02 | kerio | now that's probably mint |
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| 12:25.59 | vi_ | SpeedEvil: the phone program appears for about 0.5 seconds then I have a missed call. |
| 12:26.17 | vi_ | Or sometimes, it just suddenly appears, missed call. |
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| 12:27.52 | SpeedEvil | never seen that |
| 12:28.03 | SpeedEvil | I have received perhaps 5 calls |
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| 12:36.13 | vi_ | forever alone? |
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| 12:38.01 | kerio | forever a phone |
| 12:39.00 | vi_ | where is the ohmd config file? |
| 12:40.35 | vi_ | the one that sets cpu shares and stuff |
| 12:43.41 | vi_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:45.23 | vi_ | SpeedEvil: is /usr/bin/hildon-sv-notification-daemon |
| 12:45.45 | vi_ | SpeedEvil: is hildon-sv-notification-daemon anything to do with phone program? |
| 12:46.05 | ShadowJK | has never experienced "phone program appears for about .5 seconds then missed call" |
| 12:46.42 | ShadowJK | but under heavy system load I've had vibrating phone and ringtone and no visible phone app for many seconds |
| 12:46.49 | vi_ | I did not use to either, now it has happened 3-4 times in 3-4 days. |
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| 12:57.32 | akls | I'm trying out easy debian and it gives me the choice: v3e, Estel and sulu. What are the differences? Can't find it anywhere :\ |
| 13:03.11 | vi_ | estel and sulu are based on v3e |
| 13:03.38 | vi_ | estel+sulu are updated to wheeze or squeezy ir whatever the last one was. |
| 13:03.51 | teotwaki | squeeze or wheezy ;) |
| 13:04.21 | vi_ | estel is based on sulu. |
| 13:04.32 | akls | so which one should I install? :\ |
| 13:04.38 | vi_ | estel has libreoffice. |
| 13:04.40 | vi_ | ... |
| 13:04.49 | vi_ | akls estel probably. |
| 13:05.16 | teotwaki | akls? |
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| 13:05.25 | vi_ | akls: estel probably. |
| 13:05.34 | teotwaki | oh, sorry |
| 13:05.41 | teotwaki | anyway, off to buy a house! Later! |
| 13:05.47 | vi_ | sigh. |
| 13:05.56 | teotwaki | sigh? |
| 13:06.04 | vi_ | I can just about afford a $2 suit. |
| 13:06.11 | teotwaki | no job? |
| 13:06.16 | teotwaki | student? |
| 13:06.18 | vi_ | shit wage. |
| 13:06.22 | teotwaki | ah |
| 13:06.25 | teotwaki | change jobs |
| 13:06.27 | vi_ | although shit wage>no job. |
| 13:06.28 | teotwaki | change countries |
| 13:06.34 | vi_ | teotwaki: I will be. |
| 13:06.40 | teotwaki | fuck it, change continents |
| 13:06.55 | teotwaki | has allowed me to get a very good paygrade with virtually no diploma to speak of |
| 13:06.56 | vi_ | Just got to wait for mrs vi_ to get her PHD. |
| 13:07.00 | teotwaki | ah |
| 13:07.14 | vi_ | teotwaki: You remind me of an ex-flatmate. |
| 13:07.24 | teotwaki | I know the feeling, am waiting for my better half to get her master's |
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| 13:15.31 | vi_ | why is there a back seek penalty value for the eMMC. |
| 13:15.35 | vi_ | ? |
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| 13:15.55 | vi_ | I would have thought there would be no penalty to back seek for flash. |
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| 13:18.46 | teotwaki | vi_: only if you have noop, iirc |
| 13:18.50 | DatLicht | Hi there. I'm trying to install maemo-pan, but which is not possible (unmet dependency of bluez-utils). If I google around a bit, I found out that 'bluez' (which is already installed in the latest version) replaced 'bluez-utils'. Both packages conflict. How can I install a bluetooth PAN now? |
| 13:18.51 | deepy | teotwaki: which continent did you change to? |
| 13:19.13 | teotwaki | deepy: i'm from europe, did asia, northern america, australia. |
| 13:19.22 | teotwaki | back in europe now |
| 13:19.52 | deepy | I've been tempted to leave Europe for Asia/AUS |
| 13:19.58 | teotwaki | i'm 26, btw |
| 13:20.33 | teotwaki | anyway, bbl |
| 13:22.23 | deepy | Ciao |
| 13:23.27 | vi_ | 26 |
| 13:23.31 | vi_ | and buying a house. |
| 13:23.54 | vi_ | If I start now, maybe my grand kids can have a leantoo shack behind the sewage works. |
| 13:24.29 | vi_ | DatLicht: maemo-pan is a maemo4 package that some knucklehead stuck into the fremantle autobuilder. |
| 13:24.37 | jon_y | yep, prices always go up, inflation faster than salary increment :( |
| 13:24.57 | vi_ | If you doo manage to force install it, you will need a fully qualified wizard to uninstall it. |
| 13:25.07 | vi_ | and it does not work anyway. |
| 13:25.14 | DatLicht | vi_, ah okay that explains something. Any other package that does the job? |
| 13:25.34 | vi_ | DatLicht: everything you need is already on the n900. |
| 13:25.55 | DatLicht | (btw, if that would screw up my n900, it's good that it's not possible to install it...) |
| 13:26.13 | vi_ | DatLicht: I force installed it... |
| 13:26.40 | DatLicht | I have a N900. And I have a PAN server that perfectly works with my Win7 laptop computer. But it doesn't use the PAN service |
| 13:26.46 | vi_ | I had to write a script with the same name as the maemo-pan daemon so the uninstall script would have something to kill. |
| 13:27.26 | vi_ | you need to edit /etc/bluetooth/main.conf |
| 13:27.58 | vi_ | and remove 'networking' from the list of disabled modules. |
| 13:28.08 | vi_ | then reboot. |
| 13:28.39 | vi_ | You can then manually configure the bluetooth device to connect to the pan. |
| 13:29.14 | DatLicht | interesting. can the N900 also handle BT mice and keyboards? (have both, but can't connect to my N900) |
| 13:29.22 | vi_ | DatLicht: read this: |
| 13:29.24 | vi_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47201 |
| 13:29.33 | vi_ | DatLicht: It certainly can! |
| 13:29.49 | vi_ | I have never tried a BT mouse personally though. |
| 13:30.20 | vi_ | you just need to install the extkbd and extmou packages. |
| 13:30.52 | vi_ | be warned, extkbd will overwrite your rx-51 keymap. |
| 13:31.03 | vi_ | So if you have modified it, make a backup. |
| 13:31.13 | vi_ | be warned, INSTALLING extkbd will overwrite your rx-51 keymap. |
| 13:31.19 | vi_ | So if you have modified it, make a backup. |
| 13:33.17 | vi_ | also, if your BT KB is spp you will need to also install the kbdd package. |
| 13:33.34 | DatLicht | hmmm. that means I have to access i.e. the numbers via alt-qwer... on my external keyboard? |
| 13:33.52 | vi_ | DatLicht: wut? |
| 13:34.03 | vi_ | Your external kb will have a seperate key map. |
| 13:34.25 | DatLicht | ah ... sorry, I misunderstood that. thanks for explaining |
| 13:34.27 | vi_ | the extkbd package will let you select the keymap of your external kb. |
| 13:36.07 | DatLicht | nice. |
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| 13:42.12 | akls | woop |
| 13:42.16 | akls | first time it crashed |
| 13:44.33 | DatLicht | hmmm. PAN doesn't seem to work. I removed 'network' in the main.conf and rebooted the device. then I paired computer (PAN server) and N900. Then I tried 'ifconfig bnep0 up 192.168.220.10' (as .1 is my server). --> 'no such device' |
| 13:47.00 | DatLicht | I also added bnep0 into my /etc/network/interfaces |
| 13:48.50 | vi_ | I am a bit rusty with this. |
| 13:49.13 | kerio | DatLicht: PAN support is... flaky |
| 13:49.16 | vi_ | ifconfig bnep0 up |
| 13:49.27 | vi_ | ifconfig bnep0 <IP ADDRESS> |
| 13:49.35 | kerio | for instance, there's no pand |
| 13:50.22 | vi_ | no such device means bnep0 is not present. |
| 13:50.37 | vi_ | dont you have to use hciconfig to start iot or something? |
| 13:51.48 | DatLicht | huh? in the link you described ther's a step-by-step tutorial by sebhack. I did exactly what he wrote, but doesn't work |
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| 13:54.03 | DatLicht | if I type hciconfig, there's a device named hci0: UART and some statistics |
| 13:54.11 | vi_ | kerio: http://i.imgur.com/nRJQY.jpg |
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| 15:00.07 | akls | lol, n900 is fucking funny :D |
| 15:00.19 | akls | you can call one person several times |
| 15:00.28 | akls | making other calls becoming on hold :D |
| 15:01.16 | kerio | you can do that with every phone |
| 15:01.35 | akls | lol |
| 15:01.42 | akls | why? |
| 15:01.44 | akls | :D |
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| 15:04.01 | akls | "I miss you so much so I will double-call you!! |
| 15:04.05 | akls | " |
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| 15:04.27 | deepy | Yo akls, I heard you like phonecalls so I'm gonna call you in the middle of your call |
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| 17:43.13 | freemangordon | Pali: ping |
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| 17:52.56 | Pali | freemangordon, pong |
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| 18:01.17 | freemangordon | Pali: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-10-16.log.html#t2012-10-16T20:39:12 |
| 18:01.29 | freemangordon | in case you've missed it |
| 18:01.54 | Sicelo | v |
| 18:03.03 | freemangordon | ~v |
| 18:03.04 | infobot | Portable C++ GUI Framework. URL: http://objectcentral.com/ |
| 18:03.12 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 18:03.13 | Pali | ok |
| 18:06.08 | Sicelo | typo. sorry :$ |
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| 18:20.06 | MrPingu | about that bash/messybox thingy, I don't think bash as shell causes a rebootloop but I think the gnu-tools are the problem indeed |
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| 18:57.24 | djszapiN9 | Hi. Is it possible to use a mini simcard in my N900? |
| 18:57.34 | djszapiN9 | I mean easily. :) |
| 18:58.00 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 18:59.05 | jacekowski | position the simcard where it should be, and then stick a bit of tape from the other side |
| 18:59.08 | djszapiN9 | Because joikuspot on my N9 drops the ap setup for a long phone call. |
| 18:59.33 | jacekowski | or, you can get adapters for like £1 from ebay |
| 19:00.11 | djszapiN9 | so I thought I would be using another mini simcard in my N900 for calling when getting the mobile internet on my laptop from the N9. |
| 19:00.58 | djszapiN9 | I currently live in a town. Money does not matter, but I would need an adapter asap. :) |
| 19:01.16 | djszapiN9 | is it available in shops, stores, etc? |
| 19:06.25 | kerio | probably cellphone shops |
| 19:06.45 | kerio | it's kind of a "specialized" item, but it's cheap |
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| 19:14.27 | jacekowski | djszapiN9: amazon, with next day shipping |
| 19:14.57 | jacekowski | and very likely that you can get it in a shop |
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| 19:31.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: rotfl? http://www.denx.de/wiki/view/DULG/UBootCommandLineInterface |
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| 19:33.31 | entitled | pffff |
| 19:33.55 | entitled | bought an chinese "desktop" battery charger |
| 19:34.29 | entitled | station, or whatever. Uses the original nokia wall charger for power |
| 19:35.03 | entitled | I get only 85% charge and it takes longer than with ph[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Done |
| 19:35.32 | entitled | but so does the official I think (not fully charged) |
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| 19:59.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~seen DocScrutinizer05 |
| 19:59.52 | infobot | docscrutinizer05 is currently on #maemo (16h 55m 43s) #n9 (16h 55m 43s) #harmattan (16h 55m 43s) #meego (16h 55m 43s) #openmoko (16h 55m 43s) #maemo-ssu (16h 55m 43s) #infobot (16h 55m 43s) #openmoko-cdevel (16h 55m 43s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 28m 48s, last said: 'merlin1991: rotfl? http://www.denx.de/wiki/view/DULG/UBootCommandLineInterface'. |
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| 20:31.18 | Pali | new u-boot for nokia n900 is here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 |
| 20:31.41 | Pali | it has disabled onenand support which fixed non bootable kernels on non 2101 hw revs |
| 20:32.13 | Pali | kerio, this is should be interesting for you ^^^ |
| 20:32.52 | Pali | and u-boot-update-bootmenu look for zImages in /opt/boot too |
| 20:33.29 | Sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:33.33 | kerio | /opt = second partition on emmc, ext3? |
| 20:33.41 | kerio | oh no, nvm |
| 20:33.47 | kerio | read that wrong |
| 20:34.08 | kerio | Pali: do you reckon things will go wrong if i symlink /boot to /opt/boot? |
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| 20:34.55 | Pali | kerio, shell script trying to find file in /boot or in /opt/boot |
| 20:35.03 | Pali | symlinks should work without problem |
| 20:36.25 | kerio | i mean so that the bootimgs will install themselves in /opt/boot automatically |
| 20:36.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | ooh, this way |
| 20:36.52 | Pali | kerio, uImages (from zImages) are still generated to MyDocs |
| 20:36.57 | Pali | (to subdir) |
| 20:37.30 | Pali | but packages like kernel-*-bootimg can install bootimages to /opt/boot instead of /boot |
| 20:37.48 | kerio | yeah but they don't :) |
| 20:37.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | I don't feel like replacing /boot by a symlink was a particularly nice idea |
| 20:38.12 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: yeah, it doesn't feel right |
| 20:38.16 | Pali | DocScrutinizer51, I do not care about it |
| 20:38.24 | kerio | but then again, it's not exactly used by fremantle |
| 20:38.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | Pali: maybe not you |
| 20:39.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | FHS doesn't suggest this |
| 20:39.30 | Pali | ok |
| 20:39.31 | kerio | lol fhs |
| 20:39.46 | kerio | Pali: you still haven't released the kernelless uboot image though :s |
| 20:40.06 | Pali | kerio, yes released |
| 20:40.19 | Pali | look http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/u-boot/ |
| 20:40.38 | kerio | oh, the bootimg? |
| 20:40.47 | *** join/#maemo robink (~quassel@unaffilated/robink) |
| 20:40.51 | kerio | yep, there it is |
| 20:40.52 | kerio | :3 |
| 20:40.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | indeed a uBoot with ubi support, to laod kernel from /boot/maemokernel.bin |
| 20:41.19 | Pali | DocScrutinizer51, not possible (yet), because nand code not working |
| 20:41.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-\ |
| 20:41.35 | Pali | freemangordon tried to fix it, but without success |
| 20:41.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | i c |
| 20:41.47 | Pali | and I do not have time for it... |
| 20:41.50 | Sicelo | hmm, what kernel does this uboot ship with? |
| 20:41.59 | Pali | but emmc and sd is enought |
| 20:42.15 | Pali | Sicelo, stock pr1.3 |
| 20:42.26 | Sicelo | thanks. let me see |
| 20:44.39 | Pali | and u-boot-update-bootmenu now detect kernel version in attached image |
| 20:45.06 | Pali | kerio, so you can flash other combined image and u-boot-update-bootmenu will extract your kernel version :-) |
| 20:45.25 | kerio | neat |
| 20:45.39 | kerio | Pali: is there anything that depends on u-boot-flasher? |
| 20:46.02 | kerio | because i'm not going to install that |
| 20:46.05 | Pali | fiasco-image-update-ask and u-boot-utils |
| 20:46.14 | kerio | depends *on* |
| 20:46.28 | kerio | er, well |
| 20:46.32 | Pali | ah, nothing depends on u-boot-flasher |
| 20:46.38 | kerio | phew :3 |
| 20:47.02 | Pali | but -flasher depends on above two packages |
| 20:51.07 | kerio | Pali: hmm, aren't zImages gzip-compressed? |
| 20:51.13 | kerio | what does z stand for? |
| 20:51.49 | Pali | kerio, zImage is: bootable gunzip decompresser with attached gzipped kernel image |
| 20:53.17 | kerio | Pali: the "combined.bin" that u-boot-gen-combined creates isn't a fiasco image, is it |
| 20:53.43 | Pali | it is not fiasco image |
| 20:54.05 | kerio | how do i flash it, then? |
| 20:56.12 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@87.115.52.226) |
| 21:02.04 | Sicelo | Pali.. \m/ \m/ |
| 21:02.09 | *** join/#maemo trx (ns-team@93.87.57.155) |
| 21:02.14 | kerio | Pali: oh ok, dne |
| 21:02.16 | kerio | *done |
| 21:02.17 | Sicelo | works perfectly. thakns :) |
| 21:02.24 | kerio | start softupd, flasher --local -k combined.bin -f |
| 21:02.26 | kerio | :D |
| 21:02.33 | Pali | kerio, generate fiasco image |
| 21:02.39 | kerio | Pali: pff, lame |
| 21:02.48 | Pali | because that will remove version from CAL |
| 21:02.50 | Sicelo | it only fails with my PK50, otherwise Debian, Nemo, & Maemo boot fine |
| 21:03.12 | Pali | kerio, you will have unknown in osso-product-info after reboot |
| 21:03.31 | Pali | Sicelo, is stock pr1.3 working? |
| 21:03.32 | kerio | Pali: nah, i set it again :) |
| 21:03.40 | kerio | welp, here goes nothing |
| 21:04.10 | kerio | Pali: btw, u-boot-update-bootmenu didn't use the version string from the kernel :c |
| 21:04.12 | Sicelo | yes pali. only pk50 has't worked for me yet. but stock & nemo's kernels work well :) |
| 21:04.32 | Pali | Sicelo, update kernel-power :-) |
| 21:05.03 | Sicelo | hmm, so this uboot won't work with KP50? |
| 21:05.07 | kerio | Pali: yay, it's booting with the slider closed |
| 21:05.21 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@port-30142.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 21:05.22 | Pali | Sicelo, it should |
| 21:05.48 | Pali | but maybe you have something wrong with kp instalation |
| 21:05.48 | kerio | Pali: what if i delete bootmenu.scr? |
| 21:05.55 | Pali | regenerate it |
| 21:06.01 | Pali | u-boot-update-bootmenu |
| 21:06.17 | kerio | no, i mean |
| 21:06.20 | kerio | is it *required*' |
| 21:06.21 | kerio | ? |
| 21:06.28 | kerio | do i get a generic menu if i don't have it |
| 21:06.28 | kerio | ? |
| 21:06.31 | Pali | kerio, if u-boot not find it, then you will have default bootmenu |
| 21:06.46 | Pali | default bootmenu contains: attached kernel, emmc boot, sd boot, console |
| 21:07.11 | kerio | are any of those except "attached kernel" actually useful? |
| 21:07.56 | Pali | emmc and sd boot trying to find first uImage or boot.scr script on some fat32 ext2/3 or ext4 partition |
| 21:08.01 | Sicelo | btw, i notice that /lib/modules/current still points to 2.6.28.10-power50 even though i'm on omap1. |
| 21:08.37 | Pali | Sicelo, kernel-power patching /sbin/preinit, so current symlink is ignored |
| 21:09.04 | Sicelo | kewl |
| 21:09.16 | kerio | Pali: hmm, maybe it's because i called my zImage "zImage" instead of "zImage-2.6.28.10-power52" |
| 21:09.24 | Pali | modprobe detecting module directory |
| 21:09.52 | Pali | kerio, ah, you need to run u-boot-update-bootmenu as root |
| 21:09.58 | kerio | Pali: ...ooooh |
| 21:10.02 | Pali | if you want to detect name in /dev/mtd |
| 21:10.14 | Pali | user has no read access to /dev/mtd* |
| 21:10.19 | kerio | yep, it worked now :) |
| 21:10.33 | kerio | still, should the image name be more than "zImage"? |
| 21:10.46 | Sicelo | i suspect my issue with KP50 is a bad *.item file.. Pali, what cmd_line should i append? |
| 21:10.52 | Pali | kerio, it does not depends on name |
| 21:11.03 | kerio | Pali: i know, but it feels... untidy |
| 21:11.05 | Pali | Sicelo, no cmdline |
| 21:11.27 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~fiq@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:11.39 | Sicelo | brb |
| 21:12.43 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 21:13.06 | kerio | Pali: btw, if the slider is closed the default action is still to boot the attached kernel, right? |
| 21:13.19 | Pali | kerio, no |
| 21:13.31 | Pali | default is to boot kernel configured by default |
| 21:13.38 | kerio | in bootmenu.scr? i see |
| 21:13.48 | Pali | and if you not configured any default kernel, then it is attached |
| 21:13.56 | Pali | kerio, see first post in u-boot thread |
| 21:14.09 | Pali | there is written how to change default bootmenu entry |
| 21:14.31 | kerio | so it's still kinda unsafe to bundle uboot with kernel-power... |
| 21:14.33 | kerio | >:D |
| 21:14.51 | Sicelo | worked like a charm. ;) |
| 21:15.38 | Sicelo | i don't know if this is a 'bug' -- but my N900 loses time each boot now :-/ |
| 21:15.48 | Sicelo | does it happen to you kerio? |
| 21:17.07 | SpeedEvil | you mean if you pull the battery? |
| 21:17.15 | kerio | ...boy, i hope not |
| 21:17.23 | teotwaki | Mohammad-: an SGS3? |
| 21:17.24 | kerio | or this backup is going to be st00pid |
| 21:17.39 | Sicelo | not pulling battery out. but a 'normal' reboot |
| 21:21.05 | kerio | Sicelo: rebooting quickly can sometimes cause that |
| 21:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | when renoot causes losing seconds, then there's a fat bug in some initscript |
| 21:24.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | reboot* |
| 21:25.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i was thinking of some extreme condition setting the "welp, clock's botched" bit |
| 21:25.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd not be surprised to find Nokia was silly enough to write systime to hwclock on shutdown |
| 21:26.02 | kerio | when should they write it? |
| 21:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ??? you're kidding? |
| 21:26.41 | ShadowJK | it's typical to write it to hwclock on shutdown in all linux distro :) |
| 21:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | hwclock is legit to write *only* when some higher stratum is adjusting your local time |
| 21:27.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | same moment |
| 21:27.06 | kerio | oic |
| 21:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: not on *any* of my boxes |
| 21:28.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and on suse you at least can disable that idiocy with a single sysconfig parameter |
| 21:28.40 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@89.204.137.74) |
| 21:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | nowadays kernel is in 11min mode usually anyways |
| 21:29.52 | kerio | 11min mode? |
| 21:30.23 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 21:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: man hwclock|less "+/Automatic Hardware Clock Synchronization By the Kernel" |
| 21:38.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> This mode (we'll call it "11 minute mode") is off until something turns it on. The ntp daemon xntpd is one thing that turns it on. << |
| 21:42.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bitched against that idiocy to set a usually rather accurate hwclock by a often completely random sysclock like 10 years ago, and nobody argued against it |
| 21:44.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | suse fixed their hwclock to obey euid rather than uid, so you could set +suid hwclock, after I asked them if they lost their mind to tell me "you are not root!" when I called a +s hwclock. |
| 21:44.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and they included a simple way to disable this abomination that sets hwclock to a usually late systemclock on shutdown |
| 21:46.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, as mentioned above, nowadays everybody is 24/7-online and running ntpd |
| 21:46.19 | Pali | kerio, Sicelo is uboot working without problem? |
| 21:46.23 | *** join/#maemo ekze-nyan (~nyan@bakaekze.ru) |
| 21:47.04 | kerio | Pali: i booted thrice, once with kb slider closed and twice with it open |
| 21:47.19 | kerio | i'm using kp52 attached to the latest uboot |
| 21:47.40 | Pali | ok |
| 21:47.52 | Pali | I wait until test it more people |
| 21:48.04 | Pali | but it is now good candicate for extras-devel/testing |
| 21:48.28 | kerio | and btw, i didn't test u-boot-flasher's packaging |
| 21:48.33 | kerio | i flashed manually |
| 21:48.37 | kerio | LIKE A MAN |
| 21:48.40 | Pali | ok |
| 21:49.04 | Sicelo | Pali: yes. u-boot working perfectly :) |
| 21:49.10 | kerio | but i suppose it's the same as any other flasher, isn't it |
| 21:49.29 | kerio | flash .fiasco image in /boot, rm it |
| 21:49.44 | Pali | it calling fiasco-image-update |
| 21:49.50 | Pali | same what kernel-power-flasher |
| 21:50.46 | jacekowski | i'm fed up with all those touchphones |
| 21:51.07 | Pali | kerio, btw do you know something about flow in networks (graphs)? |
| 21:51.12 | jacekowski | non responsive buttons + changing position depending on rotation |
| 21:51.36 | jacekowski | and fact that you have to look at the screen to find the button |
| 21:52.39 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@dhcp12.dmg.tuwien.ac.at) |
| 21:53.56 | ShadowJK | unfortunately can accurately hit the "stop" buttom for alarm clock without looking |
| 21:54.10 | jacekowski | i can't |
| 21:54.21 | jacekowski | that thing rotates |
| 21:54.25 | jacekowski | and it's like almost random |
| 21:54.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 21:54.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | vkbd BWAHAHA |
| 21:55.10 | jacekowski | my next phone will not have a touchscreen |
| 21:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm already frowning at N950 kbd, for missing tactile feedback of key positions |
| 21:56.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's only _one_ kbd I ever seen to be inferior: eten Glofiish M800 |
| 21:57.26 | Pali | ShadowJK, yes hit stop button on alarm is very very usefull :-) |
| 21:57.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ther's been literally nuttin to tell you where one keycap ends and other begins, unless you press down one of the keys so you could feel the 'step' to the rest of friggin keyboard plane |
| 21:58.38 | ShadowJK | jacekowski, I think you'd appreciate the MultiSIM service you could get here before |
| 21:58.45 | ShadowJK | (I still have it, the didn't kick anyone off it) |
| 21:58.54 | ShadowJK | You can have 5 sim cards with same phone number |
| 21:59.08 | ShadowJK | Every device rings when someone calls |
| 21:59.54 | ShadowJK | So you can have smartphone that's not good for phone, and phone that's not good for internets |
| 21:59.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | awesome |
| 22:00.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | but how's that related to touchscreen? |
| 22:00.40 | ShadowJK | When people call me in the morning and I'm groggy and can't even focus eyes I reach for the non-touch phone, not my n900 :) |
| 22:01.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 22:01.31 | kerio | why do people call you? |
| 22:01.37 | kerio | i'd work on solving that |
| 22:02.01 | ShadowJK | My definition of "morning" is very vague |
| 22:02.03 | ShadowJK | and variable |
| 22:02.04 | ShadowJK | ;) |
| 22:02.50 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 22:03.05 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: found a wierd mobile virtual operator in the UK. |
| 22:03.40 | SpeedEvil | you can get a sim with no number, that hooks up to your sip server |
| 22:03.57 | ShadowJK | Mine's a virtual operator too, around 2004 or so you could even click in the web interface and choose which physical network you wanted to be on :) But then they got bought out by one of the physical networks they were roaming on :( |
| 22:03.58 | kerio | ...cool |
| 22:08.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | [PUBLIC NOTICE] don't forget to *vote* for hildon foundation board. Last chance! |
| 22:09.05 | kerio | oh right |
| 22:09.10 | kerio | how do i vote? |
| 22:10.01 | GeneralAntilles | Do we get a sticker? |
| 22:10.34 | kerio | DocScrutinizer for president! |
| 22:10.51 | ShadowJK | what's the sticker for? |
| 22:11.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I'm not running for board |
| 22:11.43 | kerio | aww :c |
| 22:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 22:16.21 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF4D44.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:17.18 | GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, http://www.rocketxl.com/launchpad/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/i-voted-sticker.gif |
| 22:17.34 | GeneralAntilles | Or a more useful illustration: http://davefordunedin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tagsgf-election-sticker-i-voted-stocksdale.jpg |
| 22:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi GeneralAntilles, long time no see |
| 22:19.10 | ShadowJK | That reminds me |
| 22:19.16 | GeneralAntilles | Hey-oh. |
| 22:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: you would've earned a t-shirt, but only for passive vote ;-) |
| 22:20.11 | GeneralAntilles | Free shirt! Free shirt! |
| 22:20.37 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@212-183-120-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:20.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | prints a t-shirt for himself: "I stood for 2012-Q4 elections and survived it" |
| 22:21.14 | GeneralAntilles | I still want a maemo.org ballcap |
| 22:21.23 | ShadowJK | Voting statistics in parliamental elections a dozen or so years back was so detailed, that for the village I live in there was 1 who voted Communist, year after yaer there was 1 vote for communists, and people had already "decided" who it was that was voting commie. When that suspected commie died, however, next election there was still oen person voting for commies, and it made people sad because they had been unnecessarily too mean to the deceased person |
| 22:21.46 | GeneralAntilles | Creepy statistics |
| 22:22.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | hahahaha |
| 22:24.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll miss Romney and Obama on my council vote ballot though |
| 22:27.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | could somebody dissect "davefordunedin" for me, please? |
| 22:28.55 | Woody14619a | Thanks for the reminder to all Doc. :) |
| 22:29.10 | Woody14619a | Also, FWIW: Please don't vote for me. :) |
| 22:30.12 | Woody14619a | .oO(And what's up with all the net drops I've been getting? :P ) |
| 22:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619a: how's about making GeneralAntilles happy and hand out cloak stickers "maemo/community/voter" to everybody who drops by and tells the number of digits of his vote token? |
| 22:30.41 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 22:30.48 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 22:30.52 | Woody14619a | Had I the power to affect cloacks... But I do not. ;) |
| 22:30.57 | GeneralAntilles | Make the Freenode staff do more work! |
| 22:30.58 | Woody14619a | (Nor would I want it... frankly. |
| 22:31.01 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, need X-Fade. |
| 22:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | freenode staff will happily apply cloaks, even lists of hundereds. They have scripts for that |
| 22:32.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we need GC for that, yeah |
| 22:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I pushed X-Fade to grant +F (and co-GC) to GeneralAntilles, just in case he gets hit by a bus... Though he seemed not averse, the net result seems zarro |
| 22:35.07 | GeneralAntilles | Meh |
| 22:35.09 | GeneralAntilles | Meeehhh |
| 22:36.18 | Woody14619a | It's on the list-o-stuff to ask for when/if the foundation gets the go to aquire from Nokia/Nemien. (Assuming we don't stay w/ them... Maybe even if we do?) |
| 22:36.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure thing |
| 22:37.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | though that's not exactly a .... hmmm, nmaybe it is |
| 22:37.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | GC is the one entity to communicate between brand owner and freenode |
| 22:37.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | brand owner been Nokia so far |
| 22:38.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | +F is a completely different story, actually |
| 22:38.15 | Woody14619a | Right... Not sure where/if that's going to transfer. And yes, +F is different. |
| 22:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | a very interesting question: will Nokia drop the (TM) "maemo" and grant board to "own" it? |
| 22:41.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably not without quite some paperwork that's 100 times more than bylaws |
| 22:41.55 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 22:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | "no commercial usage", "no disrespect of Nokia's interests and reputation" etc pp yaggediyagg |
| 22:43.12 | Woody14619a | Well, the bylaws aren't what would bind the entity to the usage of the TM, if Nokia did that. The legal document they'd sign would be the binding thing. |
| 22:43.53 | Woody14619a | But yeah, it they did, I'm sure there would be some type of agreement involved. And the Board being a legal entity can sign said documents, where Council could not. |
| 22:44.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia might establish board as proxy to hanfle maemo TM in lieu of Nokia themselves |
| 22:44.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | handle* |
| 22:44.41 | Woody14619a | Will that happen? Anyone's guess. I'd be happy if we get the rights to the sever data for Maemo.org at this point. |
| 22:45.10 | jacekowski | well, emm |
| 22:45.17 | jacekowski | what is using hildon at the moment |
| 22:45.18 | jacekowski | n900 |
| 22:45.26 | jacekowski | anything else? |
| 22:45.27 | Woody14619a | And the right to redist the Nokia blobs on our own repos as is. |
| 22:45.48 | Woody14619a | Anything beyond that will be pure bonus IMHO. |
| 22:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: hildon been used in NITs since ... maemo |
| 22:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | or longer even |
| 22:46.11 | jacekowski | yeah, no currently made devices |
| 22:46.18 | jacekowski | so hildon is pretty much dead |
| 22:46.22 | jacekowski | why would nokia care about it |
| 22:46.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | as is maemo |
| 22:46.35 | jacekowski | exactly |
| 22:46.41 | Woody14619a | Because it does have some value still... (otherwise why would we want it?) |
| 22:46.43 | jacekowski | userbase is shrinking fast |
| 22:47.16 | Woody14619a | And because it also holds the potential for littigation if handled inappropriatly.... |
| 22:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | basic rule: nobody in business gives away a TradeMark just for fun and to clean up their file stash |
| 22:47.36 | Woody14619a | The latter being the more likely reason it wasn't just open-sourced when it went EOL. |
| 22:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619a: opensourcing formerly closed stuff is a high-workload issue in industry, since they need to check for all that friggin legalese |
| 22:49.17 | Woody14619a | yup |
| 22:50.11 | Woody14619a | again, liability to litigation... |
| 22:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yiu have no idea what it cost me to get glamo *schematics* into http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/GTA02/Schematics_Freerunner-GTA02_A5-A7cumulative_public_RC0.pdf |
| 22:52.30 | Woody14619a | That's a word I never want to hear again.... glamo. :P |
| 22:52.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | since that cheesy gfx-accel chip came with a NDA you had to sign in blood, and it didn't help at all when the company not even existed anymore when the schematics were published |
| 22:53.09 | Woody14619a | FWIW, there's been another release of the bylaws, and will probably be one more in a few. Small but important changes. |
| 22:53.12 | Woody14619a | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1281896&postcount=104 |
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| 23:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF can I disable that KDE idiocy to shrink a maximized window when I click+pull in titlebar, menubar, any random other location of window? |
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| 23:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | drives me nuts! >:-( |
| 23:26.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet some idiot implemented that as a feature |
| 23:26.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't see this in KDE4.3.5 |
| 23:27.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | KDE4.7.2 really worse than 4.3.5, incredible |
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