| 00:03.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are some senheiser(?) in-ear with custom-made ear-fittings |
| 00:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | for like 300EUR |
| 00:03.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | takes 2 weeks to deliver from the mould they take from your ear |
| 00:05.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a sidenote, my friggin LG TV needs more volume each other month, I wonder if it's speakes wearing out, or my ears wearing out |
| 00:05.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | speakers* |
| 00:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's probably age when you can't see closer than 50cm and ears go deaf |
| 00:06.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's never been that true: I'm getting too old for that shit |
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| 01:36.07 | ShadowJK | I have some sennheisers that have really tiny drivers and strain reliefs, fits good under peltor cups. But, for some reason, when the seal is perfect. it gets really uncomfortable, and it's like there's no attenuation of noise in the low range, say 150Hz and down |
| 01:38.34 | robbiethe1st | ShadowJK, you've got a N900 right? |
| 01:39.02 | robbiethe1st | Grab this: http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1475&faq=34 |
| 01:39.06 | ShadowJK | yes |
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| 01:39.36 | robbiethe1st | Works nicely, gives you a proper EQ for the stock media player(and possibly others) |
| 01:40.23 | ShadowJK | ... |
| 01:41.01 | ShadowJK | That's unrelated. |
| 01:41.01 | ShadowJK | I'm talking about external noise |
| 01:41.02 | ShadowJK | like say in an airplane or a car |
| 01:41.41 | ShadowJK | Boosting bass with eq to bring it above noise is just going to ruin your hearing too, which is counter to the entire point :P |
| 01:42.15 | robbiethe1st | I thought your problem was too much bass; figured you could turn it down |
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| 07:49.40 | freemangordon | ~seen zeq |
| 07:49.41 | infobot | zeq <~s_j_newbu@2a01:348:1e3:1:e6ec:10ff:fe9a:d418> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 6d 14h 16m 45s ago, saying: 'I guess that could work'. |
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| 08:14.55 | vi_ | ~seen your butt |
| 08:14.57 | infobot | vi_: i haven't seen 'your butt' |
| 08:15.19 | freemangordon | vi_: hmm, strange |
| 08:15.21 | vi_ | ~butt |
| 08:15.21 | infobot | butt is, like, not to be confused with but |
| 08:15.35 | vi_ | ~music |
| 08:15.35 | infobot | i heard music is essential for hacking -- especially calming music for debugging so you don't throw the damn machine out the nearest window Available from magnatune, a company that isn't evil. |
| 08:17.18 | vi_ | ~seen hugh gass |
| 08:17.18 | infobot | vi_: i haven't seen 'hugh gass' |
| 08:17.50 | vi_ | freemangordon: I know, I am exposing my butt all the time. |
| 08:19.28 | freemangordon | vi_: yeah, that's why it seems strange infobot has never seen it |
| 08:20.11 | vi_ | freemangordon: I am changing over to embedded systems role at my job today. |
| 08:20.21 | vi_ | freemangordon: After 2 years I am starting C again. |
| 08:20.29 | freemangordon | wow, sounds great |
| 08:20.30 | vi_ | The project I am taking over is... |
| 08:20.36 | vi_ | made of nightmares |
| 08:21.00 | freemangordon | well, saying it is written in C should be enough :D |
| 08:21.09 | vi_ | There have been 6 people working on this for the past 8 years. |
| 08:21.20 | vi_ | The last 2 only lasted 1 year each. |
| 08:21.26 | freemangordon | yeah, I know what you mean |
| 08:21.39 | vi_ | They did not know C and learned 'on the job'. |
| 08:21.47 | vi_ | This firmware is an abomination. |
| 08:21.54 | freemangordon | I can bet the code is like spaghetti |
| 08:22.12 | vi_ | freemangordon: At least spaghetti is not tied end to end. |
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| 08:22.18 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 08:22.23 | Wizzup | rewrite it in golang ;) |
| 08:22.40 | vi_ | They only started including 'version' numbers inside the code in the last year. |
| 08:22.57 | freemangordon | Wizzup: not always possible, imagine you have a deadline ;) |
| 08:23.05 | Wizzup | hehe |
| 08:23.05 | vi_ | The guy added it to THE END of 'print.c' |
| 08:23.15 | freemangordon | LOL |
| 08:23.27 | vi_ | freemangordon: I did not lol. :| |
| 08:23.47 | jaska | why not lol, existence is but a bad joke. |
| 08:24.06 | freemangordon | vi_: is the situation with developers that hard where you are? |
| 08:24.39 | vi_ | freemangordon: No, my company is just so fucking stupid and cheap. |
| 08:24.48 | freemangordon | aah |
| 08:25.03 | vi_ | For example the goon that just left was getting paid 25% more than me. |
| 08:25.24 | vi_ | They are expecting me to take over his job on my current salary. |
| 08:25.38 | freemangordon | :( |
| 08:25.49 | vi_ | I have not had a pay rise in 3 years. |
| 08:26.03 | vi_ | In fact I have taken a pay cut if you consider inflation. |
| 08:26.12 | freemangordon | vi_: well, it is economic crisys after all |
| 08:26.36 | vi_ | For skilled people it is not so much. |
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| 08:28.12 | vi_ | I shall use this opportunnity to get back into embedded systems and coding (I have not really done any for 3 years) and then find a new job in a couple of months. Fuck 'em. |
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| 08:30.03 | Wizzup | meh, you should able to get a decent pay somewhere if you don't mind loosening your ideals (say, android or ios coding) |
| 08:30.50 | vi_ | Wizzup: I am more about embedded systems as oppose to appz development. |
| 08:31.09 | Wizzup | I understood that |
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| 08:34.18 | teotwaki | vi_: how's your networking skills? |
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| 08:35.10 | vi_ | teotwaki: With people or embedded systems? |
| 08:35.10 | teotwaki | vi_: also, where are you based and do you mind travelling? |
| 08:35.19 | teotwaki | computer-wise |
| 08:35.22 | vi_ | teotwaki: Edinburgh |
| 08:35.58 | vi_ | teotwaki: (scotland) |
| 08:36.03 | vi_ | (uk) |
| 08:36.06 | teotwaki | Yes, I know where the brugh is |
| 08:36.30 | vi_ | Why, do you know somone who is hiring? |
| 08:36.31 | teotwaki | vi_: and, do you mind travelling? |
| 08:36.52 | vi_ | depends what exactly you mean by travelling. |
| 08:37.04 | vi_ | I.e a long commute or relocating country? |
| 08:37.06 | teotwaki | going to the other side of the planet for customer meetings. |
| 08:37.18 | vi_ | teotwaki: that sounds awesome. |
| 08:37.23 | teotwaki | not relocation, just regular travels to meet up with the team. |
| 08:37.37 | teotwaki | how's your multithreading skills? |
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| 08:38.37 | vi_ | non-existant. I have not done any real coding for ~3 years. Back then it was firmware for 8051 microcontrollers. |
| 08:39.04 | vi_ | Now it is firmware for freescale 56F300 |
| 08:40.13 | teotwaki | Well, if embedded is what you like (set top boxes, tvs, mobiles), you may want to check out ZMQ |
| 08:40.29 | teotwaki | The company that powers ZMQ is looking for solid recruits |
| 08:40.48 | teotwaki | Young, available (as in, not tied down by girlfriend/wife), ready to work stupid hours. |
| 08:41.02 | teotwaki | But the pay is good, and you get to become a public figure ;) |
| 08:41.18 | vi_ | teotwaki: interesting... |
| 08:41.23 | Luke-Jr | so they want slaves.. |
| 08:41.44 | vi_ | teotwaki: Thank you for the tip. |
| 08:42.29 | teotwaki | Luke-Jr: that's one way of looking at it, but seeing they'd probably double or triple my salary, I'm OK with that. |
| 08:42.48 | teotwaki | And I am *very* well paid for my geographical area. |
| 08:43.34 | Luke-Jr | I'm relatively underpaid, because I weigh pay with other important factors <.< |
| 08:43.44 | Luke-Jr | like working from home, not signing NDAs, etc |
| 08:44.50 | vi_ | In this project they have run out of flash memory to hold the code. |
| 08:45.03 | vi_ | The flash memory is 64k. |
| 08:45.16 | Luke-Jr | ☺ |
| 08:45.21 | vi_ | This is a simple gas measuring device. |
| 08:45.33 | teotwaki | Yeah, I work from home two or three days a week, I don't have any NDAs, I get 7 weeks of (paid) vacation, I'm a shareholder, and I'm currently negotiating to start my own company within the holding. |
| 08:45.35 | vi_ | with 4 buttons and a tiny monochrome LCD display. |
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| 08:45.52 | teotwaki | vi_: let me guess, they compile with -O6? |
| 08:45.59 | vi_ | teotwaki: I like where you are at, how old are you? |
| 08:46.03 | teotwaki | I'm 26. |
| 08:46.06 | vi_ | teotwaki: I do not even know yet. |
| 08:46.13 | vi_ | teotwaki: FUCK. |
| 08:46.19 | vi_ | teotwaki: 26????? |
| 08:46.27 | teotwaki | Or 25? |
| 08:46.29 | vi_ | teotwaki: FML. |
| 08:46.30 | teotwaki | No, 26. |
| 08:47.00 | teotwaki | vi_: why, how old are you? |
| 08:47.07 | *** join/#maemo Zahra (~Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax) |
| 08:47.13 | vi_ | and if it is not to much, who do you work for? |
| 08:47.34 | vi_ | teotwaki: I am 27. I have a graduate salary and a rusty car. |
| 08:48.41 | teotwaki | A small company in France, Interact-IV. The website is shite---we don't sell things directly, so we don't need to be known; we have other companies (massive network operators in Europe) who get the clients, and give 'em to us. |
| 08:49.06 | vi_ | And You GET TO LIVE IN FRANCE??? |
| 08:49.14 | vi_ | The food! |
| 08:49.18 | vi_ | The hot chicks! |
| 08:49.22 | teotwaki | 90% of our business is "white label", or whatever the terminology is in English. |
| 08:49.23 | vi_ | The language! |
| 08:49.34 | teotwaki | Well, I'm hoping to leave pretty soon, frankly. |
| 08:49.50 | vi_ | teotwaki: Germany, right? |
| 08:50.24 | teotwaki | I spent my adolescence here, came back after two years in London, and some time in Australia, the weather's awesome, and the produce is amazing, but the people are just stupid. |
| 08:50.40 | teotwaki | No, probably London again for a year or two, then Sweden or Canada. |
| 08:50.56 | vi_ | So this 64k firmware has a whole USB subsystem compiled into it. |
| 08:51.08 | vi_ | ...there is no USB interface in the PCB. |
| 08:51.12 | vi_ | SO |
| 08:51.13 | vi_ | MUCH |
| 08:51.14 | vi_ | FAIL. |
| 08:51.37 | vi_ | Sweden & Canada are appealing, |
| 08:51.44 | vi_ | London is apalling. |
| 08:51.54 | vi_ | fuck my spelling this morning. |
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| 08:52.12 | teotwaki | vi_: isn't there a JTAG-to-USB interface? |
| 08:52.34 | teotwaki | London is actually seriously cool, I love that place |
| 08:52.54 | teotwaki | Take the train for 10 minutes, and you cycle your heart out, take the train in the other direction for 20 minutes, and you're at work. |
| 08:53.07 | vi_ | Yes, but why would you need USB in the firmware for it? |
| 08:53.25 | teotwaki | I don't know, but maybe a physical USB thingie isn't required to use USB? |
| 08:53.25 | vi_ | Also, no one has had the debugger hooked up in about 2 years. |
| 08:54.18 | teotwaki | You can fly to literally any place in the world from London, except for maybe London itself, you can even take the train to Belgium/Paris, so holidays and visiting friends/family is no big deal. |
| 08:54.20 | jacekowski | london is horrible |
| 08:54.45 | vi_ | teotwaki: I meant the project, the device has no USB on it. It does not use the USB hardware of the 56F300, yet the code for it is included in the firmware. |
| 08:54.53 | vi_ | jacekowski: I can confirm this. |
| 08:54.53 | jacekowski | teotwaki: you can't fly to paris from london |
| 08:54.56 | teotwaki | vi_: ah, ok. |
| 08:55.05 | jacekowski | teotwaki: you have to take the train |
| 08:55.21 | teotwaki | jacekowski: I don't think that's correct |
| 08:55.32 | jacekowski | teotwaki: eurostar takes 2h to get to paris |
| 08:55.40 | vi_ | London: filthy, rotten to the core and full of c*nts. |
| 08:55.41 | jacekowski | teotwaki: with check-in times of like 10minutes |
| 08:55.54 | jacekowski | teotwaki: plane takes about the same and check in times are much longer |
| 08:56.14 | jacekowski | teotwaki: so airlines couldn't compete with eurostar on that route |
| 08:56.16 | teotwaki | Eurostar is actually more of a checkin of 30-40 minutes, but ok :) |
| 08:56.36 | teotwaki | jacekowski: Air France 1180 |
| 08:56.45 | jacekowski | teotwaki: i've traveled on eurostar few times and never had any problems |
| 08:57.07 | jacekowski | teotwaki: i got there like 20 minutes before train was due to leave and i managed to get something to eat in that time |
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| 08:58.03 | teotwaki | Yes, check in *can* be easy, but I could tell you the same story flying out from Tunisia, or even LHR :) |
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| 08:58.49 | teotwaki | And for the record, the plural of anecdotes isn't data. |
| 08:59.01 | jacekowski | it always takes a lot longer to check in on the airport |
| 08:59.05 | jacekowski | + you have weight limits |
| 08:59.15 | jacekowski | and with eurostar you end up in middle of paris |
| 08:59.48 | jacekowski | CDG airport is quite far from it |
| 09:00.38 | teotwaki | Yes yes, you're right, disregard any statement I might provide with new constraints and rules, just so you can keep disregarding my facts :) |
| 09:01.01 | teotwaki | I said "You can fly to literally any place in the world from London, except for maybe London itself, you can even take the train to Belgium/Paris" |
| 09:01.11 | jacekowski | well yeah |
| 09:01.18 | teotwaki | and somehow this fucktard is arguing with me that "Eurostar is the only way to to Paris" |
| 09:01.22 | teotwaki | I mean what the fuck, who gives a flying shit. |
| 09:01.33 | teotwaki | You're arguing exactly the same thing as I am. |
| 09:01.42 | jacekowski | hmmm |
| 09:01.56 | jacekowski | well, i'm just saying london is horrible |
| 09:02.10 | teotwaki | How is arguing for its excellent transport a way to make that point? |
| 09:02.57 | jacekowski | well, it's not |
| 09:03.10 | jon_y | sales droid |
| 09:03.30 | jon_y | some of them are anyway |
| 09:03.33 | jacekowski | i've worked in london and wouldn't say that transport is so good |
| 09:04.04 | jacekowski | every time i had to take a van into london it was like 2h to get to city from M25 |
| 09:06.03 | teotwaki | And try doing the same in Paris, or Moscow, or Kiev, or SF, or NY. |
| 09:06.17 | jacekowski | that's why i don't like big cities |
| 09:06.22 | teotwaki | But then compare---as a tourist---using the tube in London, Paris, Kiev. |
| 09:06.41 | jacekowski | abominations like that shouldn't exist |
| 09:07.10 | teotwaki | Kiev is stupid, nobody speaks English, and you can't read where to get out. The tube is roughly at 250m under ground level, so you spend 10 minutes going down, doooown, dooooooooown. |
| 09:07.44 | teotwaki | But it's very funny to see some poor dude in a cabin at the bottom of the escalators, looking up, all day, all the time, to press the single big red button in front of him if someone trips. |
| 09:09.11 | teotwaki | Paris is even more stupid, because most people *could* help you if they wanted to. They just can't be bothered. The indications don't make sense, because they only happen once every 600m, nevermind the fact you just went up and down two escalators, a u-turn, and had to use three tickets because the old ones didn't work anymore. |
| 09:11.17 | teotwaki | Compare that with London, where every tube train indicates where it's going, and there's maps/boards indicating everywhere where it's come from. There's staff all over the fucking place, in case your ticket doesn't work (you know, that good ol'e right that says that no mechanical authority can hold you prisoner unless there's a human to supervise it---it works!), or in case you need directions. |
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| 09:37.40 | vi_ | can somone suggest a good online c dictionary? |
| 09:37.47 | teotwaki | c dictionary? |
| 09:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | <teotwaki> Young, available.... |
| 09:38.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 09:40.26 | vi_ | an online reference |
| 09:41.54 | teotwaki | vi_: of what? |
| 09:42.06 | vi_ | C |
| 09:42.22 | teotwaki | You mean the C Std Lib? |
| 09:42.32 | vi_ | Yes. |
| 09:42.39 | teotwaki | Man pages? |
| 09:42.44 | vi_ | LOL |
| 09:42.49 | vi_ | no one reads manpages. |
| 09:42.53 | teotwaki | man stdio |
| 09:42.56 | ZogG_laptop | there was some site with functions and the examples |
| 09:43.16 | vi_ | teotwaki: I have to use a windows 7 workstation |
| 09:43.20 | ZogG_laptop | vi_: actually people do read man pages |
| 09:43.28 | tadzik | wait, what |
| 09:43.32 | ZogG_laptop | vi_: there are mans online :P |
| 09:43.40 | tadzik | "I need a reference" "LOL, no one reads manpages" |
| 09:43.46 | tadzik | what has the world come to |
| 09:43.50 | vi_ | ZogG_laptop: I do not want to know about your online man search. |
| 09:43.50 | teotwaki | vi_: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/clibrary/ |
| 09:44.03 | teotwaki | http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/webmonkeys/book/c_guide/ |
| 09:44.09 | ZogG_laptop | vi_: if you don;t want to know — don't ask!!! |
| 09:44.17 | teotwaki | http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/index.html |
| 09:44.25 | teotwaki | http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/programming/ansic-library.html |
| 09:44.45 | teotwaki | http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man3/stdio.3.html |
| 09:44.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly poonders which jobs an employer may ask for "young" employees without getting sued for discrimination |
| 09:45.07 | ZogG_laptop | simple like that, if you ask at public chat, be greatful for any help/reply. otherwise ask privately from who you want to hear |
| 09:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | -o |
| 09:45.30 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: sent your CV to jolla? |
| 09:45.31 | vi_ | ZogG_laptop: jesus christ ZogG_laptop, it was a joke. |
| 09:45.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 09:45.41 | ZogG_laptop | vi_: oh, =* |
| 09:45.42 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: because young people usually don't have as much baggage as more "ancient" devs |
| 09:45.44 | vi_ | teotwaki: cheers. |
| 09:45.52 | ZogG_laptop | vi_: still didn't wake up |
| 09:45.58 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: they don't mind working 16 hours per day, as long as the pay is good |
| 09:46.07 | vi_ | baggage==experiance==more money. |
| 09:46.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 09:46.29 | teotwaki | and they don't mind jumping into a 10 hour work day after a 15 hour flight |
| 09:46.35 | vi_ | Basically you have too much exp to join the graduates guild. |
| 09:46.47 | teotwaki | vi_: no, baggage == holding you down. |
| 09:47.10 | teotwaki | Relationships: Long-term anchor to keep your feet on the ground, but also daily pain in the ass. |
| 09:47.19 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@130.225.198.196) |
| 09:47.23 | vi_ | teotwaki: I know. |
| 09:47.44 | ZogG_laptop | vi_: http://www.tutorialspoint.com/ansi_c/c_function_references.htm - i think that can be usefull |
| 09:48.21 | vi_ | ZogG_laptop: cheers, |
| 09:49.22 | ZogG_laptop | i'm writting project now in ansi C for school and i wrote a load of shit code :P |
| 09:50.50 | ZogG_laptop | found this site while searching for string functions |
| 09:52.54 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah (~Dibblah@host86-147-39-31.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:53.56 | ZogG_laptop | hey Dibblah |
| 09:58.31 | vi_ | mother of god. |
| 09:59.24 | vi_ | In this code they do not check the I2C (smbus) flag for 'ready', they just tell the processor to wait a millisecond or so. |
| 09:59.42 | vi_ | The hammer on regardless. |
| 09:59.50 | vi_ | ^then |
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| 10:00.07 | jaska | hammertime |
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| 10:02.19 | *** part/#maemo marmoute (~marmoute@kraken.insecable.net) |
| 10:02.41 | vi_ | It is as shitty as using a slow sampling to de-bounce a button. |
| 10:06.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
| 10:06.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | coders and hardware |
| 10:19.04 | teotwaki | One of our direct customers has been harassing me for a couple of months. |
| 10:19.33 | teotwaki | The issue they have is related to configuration, I've told them on day one. We don't provide support for configuration issues. But the guy insists it's a bug, so I connect to their VPN, and check what's what. |
| 10:20.10 | teotwaki | I notice that one of the processes has a weird configuration line. We enable to "name" different networks, so that they can route specific types of media streams over different networks. |
| 10:20.45 | ZogG_laptop | teotwaki: where is punch line? |
| 10:21.21 | teotwaki | The guy added the configuration <network address="10.4.5.0" mask="255.255.255.0" server_address="10.220.34.17"> |
| 10:21.41 | teotwaki | I told him "It doesn't look like that network address is the correct one. Could you double check that?" |
| 10:21.55 | teotwaki | He replied "No, 10.220.34.17 is the correct address for that server" |
| 10:22.33 | teotwaki | I replied, "I'm sorry, I meant the address field, it points to 10.4.5.0, which isn't a network your server has access to, maybe you copied the file from production, and only updated the server_address field?" |
| 10:22.50 | teotwaki | He replied, "No, I insist that that address is correct." |
| 10:23.38 | teotwaki | There's no such network on the server, for clear conscience, I connected to their production servers, and sure enough, their network is 10.4.5.0... |
| 10:24.22 | teotwaki | So I sent an email with nice red and green colours, just to display what fields I'm talking about, because that numbnuts is incapable of reading my email without visual clues. |
| 10:24.35 | teotwaki | Anyway, going home, too much construction noise at the office. |
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| 11:05.53 | fasta | After upgrading to the latest stable community edition, my usb ethernet connection doesn't work anymore. Why not? |
| 11:08.48 | *** join/#maemo maybeWTF (~cl@p5B164221.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:10.56 | vi_ | fasta: Because, gnomes. |
| 11:11.21 | fasta | vi_: I had to do a manual ifup usb0 |
| 11:11.28 | fasta | vi_: but that wasn't the case before. |
| 11:11.38 | fasta | So, someone changed something. |
| 11:11.44 | fasta | Or gremlins |
| 11:11.51 | fasta | I am going for the former. |
| 11:12.01 | kerio | fasta: autoifupping usb0 isn't something that used to be in cssu |
| 11:12.30 | fasta | kerio: no, but it's something I put in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 11:12.58 | kerio | so put it there again |
| 11:13.40 | fasta | kerio: it's still there, but it just doesn't work now. |
| 11:13.46 | kerio | \_o_/ |
| 11:13.57 | kerio | ask Pali |
| 11:15.41 | fasta | kerio: do you happen to know how I can enable boot messages to show when it is starting? |
| 11:15.55 | kerio | maybe install syslog |
| 11:15.59 | kerio | or rsyslog |
| 11:16.00 | fasta | kerio: because I basically cannot really see sometimes whether it's booting, shutting down again, etc. |
| 11:16.05 | fasta | kerio: no, I mean during boot. |
| 11:16.13 | fasta | kerio: that I can see visual boot messages. |
| 11:16.45 | fasta | kerio: this is a problem when the usb cable is connected, because the usb cable is also used for firmware upgrades. |
| 11:17.00 | fasta | So, sometimes there are delays, etc., so it's not clear as to what it is doing. |
| 11:17.11 | kerio | btw, make sure g_nokia is loaded |
| 11:17.15 | kerio | and not g_file_storage |
| 11:28.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | >><fasta> kerio: this is a problem when the usb cable is connected, because the usb cable is also used for firmware upgrades.<<< err wut? |
| 11:28.41 | kerio | idk |
| 11:28.49 | *** join/#maemo jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 11:29.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like PK boot issue to me |
| 11:29.51 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 11:30.22 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: PK? |
| 11:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | powerkernel |
| 11:30.37 | kerio | he means KP |
| 11:30.40 | kerio | for kernel-power |
| 11:30.52 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: I am running stock kernel. |
| 11:30.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not speaking reverse polish notiation |
| 11:31.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: so what's your boot problems then? |
| 11:31.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are no boot problems known, and for sure CSSU doesn't mess with that |
| 11:32.01 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: mostly that I don't know whether after pressing the start button whether it is really booting or not. |
| 11:32.23 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: it would be nice if it would give some indication that yes, it's really booting. |
| 11:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU didn't change a thing on that |
| 11:33.00 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: sure, but that doesn't make it less of a problem. |
| 11:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's always been like "press button, watch indicator LED, waaaaait" |
| 11:33.19 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: yes, but sometimes the indicatator LED is not fully white. |
| 11:33.28 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: but I do see the Nokia logo. |
| 11:33.44 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff55c100-11.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:33.52 | fasta | In that case, it's in some state where AFAIK, you can also do a firmware upgrade. |
| 11:33.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I don't get it what's your problem |
| 11:34.10 | *** join/#maemo Dynamit (~Mohamed@84-55-71-22.customers.ownit.se) |
| 11:34.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | too fuzzy description, no use in me trying to make a story out of it |
| 11:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and assumptions that don't help |
| 11:36.13 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: never mind then. Perhaps I should make a video out of it, if I care more about the problem. |
| 11:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe your confusion arises from the fact that device actually boots to a state called act_dead as soon as you apply power to USB |
| 11:36.58 | kerio | btw, act_dead is stupid |
| 11:37.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | this can take like 15 seconds, during which the device might not respond to you trying to "boot" it |
| 11:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, firmware update is absolutely unrelated to this |
| 11:39.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | the firmware update state is a transient state in very early boot (boot triggered by plugging in USB, as well as "manual" boot via power button, though on the latter you won't notice it usually) |
| 11:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's the NOLO bootloader that shows NOKIA screen without backlight that handles firmware update. You can keep it in that state when you press and hold "u" key while plugging in USB |
| 11:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | (unless your battery is too depleted, which will cause NOLO to abort firmware update state and go straight to booting into linux) |
| 11:41.35 | kerio | can we even talk about "firmware" in the n900's case? |
| 11:42.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but all that is irrelevent you you should never mind. It got nothing to do with what you probably think is meant by "booting" |
| 11:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: good point, I always thought we can't really |
| 11:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | but firmware is a rather fuzzy term, poorly defined |
| 11:43.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it had a precise meaning for microcontrolers etc that never can change their own "firmware" during runtime |
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| 11:44.45 | jaska | even cpu microcode can be updated runtime now :) |
| 11:45.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: though I'd tend to call THAT firmware still |
| 11:45.17 | jaska | yeah |
| 11:46.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | firmware of the CPU core, changed by larger SoC |
| 11:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | generally firmware isn't self-modifying |
| 11:48.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and usually installed at fab production time, or later during special firmware update process, but generally doesn't alter/change in the times of normal usage in between those special events |
| 11:49.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess that doesn't help to relieve fasta's confusion and grief |
| 11:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: a general suggestion: after plugging device to USB, *wait* for 30s before "booting" it |
| 11:50.50 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: ok (although, I am also not the most patient of people) ;) |
| 11:51.22 | fasta | The act_dead comments above seem to apply. |
| 11:51.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recall I suffered quite similar confusion in my early N900 times ;-D |
| 11:51.51 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~etrunko@134.134.139.72) |
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| 11:52.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you're in a hurry, *first* boot and only *then* plug in USB |
| 11:52.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | takes considerably shorter and less patience |
| 11:55.08 | fasta | Is there a way to increase the 32GB storage on the device? |
| 11:55.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | (rationale: when booted by power button [I.E. without USB plugged in] the device will enter normal active mode [run level], not act_dead) |
| 11:55.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: yes, plug in a 32GB microSD card ;-) |
| 11:56.06 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: so there's an open slot still somewhere? |
| 11:56.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, under battery cover |
| 11:56.34 | fasta | Yes, sure. |
| 11:57.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you're asking about "internal stoage upgrade": no such thing supported on N900 |
| 11:58.39 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: I already have 32GB currently. |
| 11:58.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | not like on 8GB N9 which allows to swap the 8GB flash chip for a 64GB chip |
| 11:58.58 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: as such, is there an extra space to get to 64GB? |
| 12:00.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: N900 has 32GB internal "fixed"(soldered) storage (plus the 'core' 256MB NAND storage), and it has a uSD slot that can take uSD-cards up to 32(64?)GB |
| 12:00.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | no other options beyond that |
| 12:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | 32GB internal + 32GB uSD = 64GB total storage capacity |
| 12:01.55 | fasta | It appears that even 64GB does work (talk.maemo) |
| 12:02.08 | fasta | That is, a 64GB uSD. |
| 12:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I think I haven't seen 64GB uSD cards yet |
| 12:02.36 | fasta | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72864&page=4 |
| 12:03.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, so they are finally available? |
| 12:03.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice |
| 12:10.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't it puzzling some of you as well sometimes, to look at that tiny uSD and figure it can hold like 100 CD worth of data |
| 12:11.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1TB in a volume the size of a sugar cube :-D |
| 12:12.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | for storage moore's law itself seems to follow moore's law |
| 12:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | "storage capacity increases every two years by a factor that doubles every two years" |
| 12:15.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | moore^2 |
| 12:26.33 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~norayr@212.73.74.28) |
| 12:27.36 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 12:29.13 | kerio | PALI IS BACK |
| 12:29.16 | kerio | WOOT |
| 12:30.02 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: "ultra" uSDs suck for random read/writes |
| 12:30.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: hi! :-D |
| 12:30.31 | Pali | I'm here and know implicit function theorem :) |
| 12:30.33 | Pali | hi |
| 12:30.56 | kerio | Pali: there's a number of problems with your bq24k module |
| 12:31.08 | kerio | it leaves gaia in a weird state |
| 12:31.21 | kerio | luckily we found a way to reset it without removing the bupbat |
| 12:31.22 | Pali | kerio, first look at: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/bq2415x_charger |
| 12:31.29 | Pali | see if it is fixed or not |
| 12:31.53 | kerio | ooh, Disable charger in none mode |
| 12:31.54 | kerio | could be that |
| 12:32.04 | Pali | I fixed some problems (it reported bad values in sysfs) |
| 12:32.05 | *** join/#maemo Wizzup (~Wizzup@old.villavu.com) |
| 12:32.58 | Pali | and hald-addon-bme is working now! |
| 12:33.10 | kerio | neat |
| 12:33.17 | Pali | see https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/hald-addon-bme |
| 12:33.29 | kerio | i don't know if i'm a bad enough dude to test it |
| 12:33.49 | kerio | Pali: are you? |
| 12:33.58 | Pali | and now I rewritten dsme-thermalobject-surface to use bq27200 temperature: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/dsme-thermalobject-surface |
| 12:34.12 | Pali | dsme-thermalobject-surface it not tested yet |
| 12:34.20 | kerio | Pali: eventually i got to a weird state where twl thought the charger was connected |
| 12:34.36 | Pali | hald-addon-bme with patched bq2415x_charger working without problem on my n900 |
| 12:35.04 | Pali | it correctly detect when charger is connected and when disconnected |
| 12:36.05 | Pali | and I have something about adcin0 temperature conversion |
| 12:36.25 | Pali | nothing from nokia devs, but from some public bme hearder files |
| 12:37.36 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@218.74.191.185) |
| 12:38.26 | Pali | search for file bmeisa.h and here is: "unit conversion data for logarithmical channel" and "struct { gain, b, t_ref }" and "unit: 1 Kelvin" |
| 12:39.13 | Pali | I think that this is used for temperature formula, and function will be some logarithm approximation... |
| 12:39.25 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, see ^^^^ |
| 12:40.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:41.07 | Pali | I created small code which ask libbmeipc for data about temperature and bme returns me: 64 00 34 0D 2A 01 |
| 12:41.18 | Pali | and 64 00 34 0D 2A 01 I found in CAL |
| 12:42.36 | Pali | calvaria show me: -- BME-PMM area -- group 1, element 8: [0000]: 05 03 03 00 64 00 34 0D 2A 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 |....d.4.*.......| |
| 12:43.26 | Pali | I also written small program which ask bme (via bmeipc) for adcin0 value and temperature value (returns in kelvin) |
| 12:43.44 | *** join/#maemo Muelli (~muelli@port-17338.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 12:44.08 | Pali | and adcin0 value I checking with raw value from /dev/twl-adc... and both are same... |
| 12:44.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like some great success :-) |
| 12:45.08 | Pali | so we can collect more raw values and converted temperatures, we have some hint that convert function can be logarithm and some data from cal (which can be some adjust constant) |
| 12:45.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:45.30 | Pali | I think we can count that conversation formula |
| 12:45.46 | Pali | or at least create some mapping table |
| 12:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | mapping table with some 8 support points and linear interpolation should be just good enough |
| 12:46.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 16 |
| 12:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all this sensor is pretty inaccurate by hw design |
| 12:47.59 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~slau@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 12:48.18 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 12:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and given the purpose of that temperature value for system (or any other possible usecase) we are probably fine with an accuracy of +-3°C, maybe even worse |
| 12:52.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, Pali, have you looked into L3_4 manual and searched for calibration of battery temperature? It *might* have info about that, if there's actually any such thing like fab side calibration of that sensor |
| 12:57.28 | Pali | there is nothing about battery calibration (in L34) |
| 13:04.36 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF59C8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:04.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Yep, I just checked whole manual for both "temperature" and "NTC" ->nuttin |
| 13:04.50 | teotwaki | what about "temp"? |
| 13:05.10 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@130.225.198.196) |
| 13:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | not the usual language in L3_4 manual: "the battery temp sensor will check the temp at a point..." |
| 13:08.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF?!!?!! "no copying of text from this L3_4 manual due to DRM" |
| 13:08.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart ocular |
| 13:08.43 | infobot | changes ocular's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 13:09.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | somehow infobot must have a AI to always pick the matching ~lart |
| 13:09.23 | teotwaki | ~lart DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:09.23 | infobot | blames DocScrutinizer05 for all the evil in the world |
| 13:09.29 | teotwaki | indeed it does |
| 13:09.41 | teotwaki | s/it/she/ |
| 13:10.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway only "calibration" mentioned in L3_4 is for ALS |
| 13:12.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing (relevant) for "temp" either |
| 13:12.11 | tadzik | DocScrutinizer05: duh, you mean okular (the KDE thing) does that? |
| 13:12.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 13:12.21 | tadzik | retarted |
| 13:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 13:12.30 | tadzik | or even retarded |
| 13:12.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | returded |
| 13:12.53 | tadzik | it's like "you can't send this image via bluetooth" on some old nokias |
| 13:14.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: you might want to ask stskeeps about his knowledge and work regarding bmeipc |
| 13:15.27 | Pali | do you really think that he wrote us some info about bme? |
| 13:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | he investigated quite a bit of that stuff for mer |
| 13:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | leme see if I can dig up a bookmark in my mess |
| 13:16.06 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I have done collecting data program |
| 13:16.37 | kerio | tadzik: my 6120c had that for .mp3s |
| 13:16.41 | kerio | for some stupid-ass reason |
| 13:16.44 | tadzik | yeah |
| 13:16.56 | kerio | it was just a stupid check on the file extension, too |
| 13:17.01 | tadzik | really? |
| 13:17.03 | tadzik | hah |
| 13:18.27 | Pali | source: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/temp_collect.c arm binary: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/temp_collect |
| 13:19.07 | Pali | I also looked at meego n900_libbme source and it contains maemo libbmeipc source code |
| 13:19.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol |
| 13:19.56 | Pali | at least library has same exported functions and my programs working with both (closed in maemo and open in meego) without problem on maemo |
| 13:20.06 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, that info is old |
| 13:20.12 | Pali | and not for maemo5 (n900) |
| 13:20.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | so is bme |
| 13:20.21 | kerio | Pali: so does your hald-addon-bme work properly? how much have you tested it' |
| 13:20.22 | kerio | ? |
| 13:21.20 | Pali | kerio, one day - but needs new bq2415x charger driver (from git) and you must disable BME and load bq driver before HAL is starting |
| 13:22.10 | kerio | oh |
| 13:22.31 | kerio | well, i assume the driver is going to be in KP52 |
| 13:22.47 | kerio | and that the replacement package will add the appropriate |
| 13:22.49 | kerio | er |
| 13:22.56 | kerio | *will add the appropriate upstart scripts |
| 13:23.24 | Pali | I will rewrite hal addon to not exit if bq drivers are not loaded |
| 13:23.46 | Pali | so you will be able to load bq modules yourself via xterm |
| 13:23.48 | kerio | Pali: can't you just replace the actual hald-addon-bme binary? |
| 13:24.04 | Pali | no, because my does not working without bq drivers |
| 13:24.09 | kerio | so load those |
| 13:24.11 | kerio | :) |
| 13:24.30 | kerio | also, can't you just make it pretend nothing is happening without the bq drivers? |
| 13:24.43 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, see: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-device-adaptation/n900_libbme https://meego.gitorious.org/~matthalm/meego-device-adaptation/matthalms-n900_libbme |
| 13:24.45 | kerio | what starts bme in maemo5? |
| 13:24.51 | Pali | second one is patched for maemo bme |
| 13:25.02 | Pali | kerio, upstart /etc/event.d/ |
| 13:25.15 | Pali | but there are scripts which depends on "start on started bme" |
| 13:25.24 | kerio | so change the bme script |
| 13:25.28 | Pali | so you cannot remove bme package |
| 13:25.30 | kerio | to load the modules |
| 13:25.32 | kerio | sure you can |
| 13:25.37 | Pali | kerio, I will fix it one day |
| 13:25.45 | Pali | it is not simple as you can write! |
| 13:25.46 | kerio | started bme is an upstart thing, it doesn't check for the actual running binary |
| 13:26.04 | Pali | need to test in qemu |
| 13:26.21 | Pali | I already created non working system in qemu because I dpkg -P bme... |
| 13:27.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: thanks |
| 13:27.46 | kerio | Pali: hell, easiest way: ln -s /bin/true /usr/sbin/bme_RX-51 |
| 13:27.57 | Pali | kerio, not |
| 13:28.09 | Pali | /bin/true is not daemon |
| 13:28.19 | kerio | oh good point |
| 13:28.19 | Pali | it will exit immediately |
| 13:28.25 | Pali | and you got MALF |
| 13:28.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly ponders to have a look into other weird packages like opneSuse sysinit5 package that nukes systemd. Might give some ideas how to do such massive changes inb system config |
| 13:28.42 | Pali | kerio, again, it is not simple! |
| 13:28.52 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: in unix, how do you make a process wait indefinetely? |
| 13:29.18 | Pali | raise signal pause maybe |
| 13:29.32 | Pali | or sleep very big number |
| 13:29.40 | kerio | Pali: does dsme complain if you stop bme? |
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| 13:30.36 | Pali | kerio, do not know |
| 13:30.55 | kerio | Pali: i mean, if you initctl stop bme |
| 13:31.00 | kerio | dsme stops checking for it |
| 13:31.28 | Pali | not dsme but upstart |
| 13:31.46 | Pali | upstart is handling bme respawning... |
| 13:32.05 | Pali | kerio, but I will create working solution |
| 13:32.15 | Pali | I have already needed steps in head... |
| 13:32.26 | Pali | but now I need temp data |
| 13:32.30 | Pali | see, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2012-09-10T16:18:28 |
| 13:33.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: suspend |
| 13:34.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: >> help suspend suspend: suspend [-f] Suspend shell execution. Suspend the execution of this shell until it receives a SIGCONT signal. |
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| 13:35.38 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i suppose it would work if you put "suspend" in place of "exec /usr/sbin/bme_RX-51" in /etc/event.d/bme |
| 13:36.27 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, this is only in bash |
| 13:36.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know upstart too much |
| 13:36.45 | Pali | suspend is bash command not executable |
| 13:36.54 | kerio | Pali: we just make something similar |
| 13:37.40 | kerio | unsigned int sleep(unsigned int); int main() { while (1) sleep(3600); } |
| 13:37.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | kill -SIGSTOP $$ |
| 13:37.43 | Pali | I will create upstart script which will be upstart task (so send "bme started") and there will be no respawn because it will be task |
| 13:37.53 | Pali | and this script replace bme |
| 13:38.02 | kerio | Pali: /usr/event.d/bme does other stuff too, though |
| 13:38.12 | Pali | kerio, no |
| 13:38.17 | Pali | it is inly bme stuff |
| 13:38.39 | kerio | Pali: there's some led-related stuff |
| 13:38.59 | Pali | kerio, again, do not spam channel |
| 13:39.11 | Pali | kerio, it is bme related |
| 13:39.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't see anybody spamming channel |
| 13:39.34 | kerio | whatever, sorry for trying to be helpful |
| 13:39.59 | kerio | ...the grammar there doesn't sound correct |
| 13:40.39 | Pali | for help, send me temperature data |
| 13:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | kids, play nice! we're all just hackers trying to improve our beloved baby |
| 13:45.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: for helping you with temperature data, please provide proper instructions how to do that |
| 13:46.12 | Pali | 1. download c source and compile it or download arm compiled binary |
| 13:46.19 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 13:46.22 | Pali | 2. run it on n900 (as normal user) |
| 13:46.33 | Pali | 3. upload somewhere terminal output |
| 13:46.48 | Pali | CTRL+C terminate program |
| 13:46.54 | Pali | it collecting data infinity |
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| 13:47.00 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 13:47.15 | Pali | output is I think self explaining |
| 13:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good, just it's missing any real URLs for download |
| 13:47.34 | Pali | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2012-09-10T16:18:28 |
| 13:48.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or simply [2012-09-10 15:18:28] <Pali> source: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/temp_collect.c arm binary: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/temp_collect |
| 13:48.17 | kerio | Pali: http://fpaste.org/0feZ/ |
| 13:48.18 | Pali | ok :-) |
| 13:48.36 | Pali | kerio, Internal Server Error |
| 13:48.47 | kerio | fpaste does that sometimes |
| 13:48.48 | kerio | try again |
| 13:49.02 | Pali | not working... |
| 13:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | WFM |
| 13:49.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | kelvin raw |
| 13:49.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:49.45 | kerio | highlights: 304 54, 305 53 |
| 13:49.46 | kerio | what the fuck |
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| 13:51.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | even worse |
| 13:52.15 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, raw value 54 = 304°K |
| 13:52.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:52.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:52.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:52.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:52.32 | jaska | o.O |
| 13:52.59 | Pali | there can be problem that bme not reporting current temperature but some average... |
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| 13:57.56 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why do we have the same temperature? |
| 13:58.03 | kerio | get out of my house bro |
| 13:58.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I quoted your pastebin |
| 13:59.39 | kerio | oic |
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| 14:06.04 | timmay | is this the channel for nokia n9 help? |
| 14:06.17 | kerio | timmay: #harmattan |
| 14:06.18 | tadzik | please read the topic |
| 14:07.05 | timmay | thanks |
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| 14:32.54 | Pali | very bad, here are my data (about 1 hour) | sort -u : http://pastebin.com/cwDsTVit |
| 14:33.11 | Pali | kerio, DocScrutinizer05, see ^^^ |
| 14:34.51 | kerio | wat |
| 14:35.01 | kerio | Pali: btw, what are the sources for the numbers? |
| 14:35.15 | Pali | kerio, bme |
| 14:35.30 | kerio | both? |
| 14:40.54 | Pali | yes |
| 14:41.15 | Pali | kerio, I tested and raw (adcin0) value is reported same as directly from kernel |
| 14:41.54 | kerio | so... how does bme calculate the other value? |
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| 14:52.56 | Pali | kerio, nobody know what doing bme... |
| 14:55.04 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.166.116) |
| 14:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: unless you place the N900 in frige eventually, the tables from this tool won't give enough data to conclude anything from them |
| 14:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, the Kelvin value just differs by 4° between min and max |
| 14:57.20 | Pali | I see from my logs... |
| 14:57.30 | Pali | but when I ask bme for reading CAL data for adc *temp* channel, I got raw data: 00 64 00 34 0D 2A 01 00 |
| 14:58.40 | Pali | if it is data for logarithm function, then it is: gain=25600=0x6400; b=13312=0x3400; t_ref=10765=0x2A0D |
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| 15:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: judging from L3_4 there's no such thing like factory calibration data for bat-temp. I rather guess that's some self-adjusting parameters of a PID filter |
| 15:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or something completely different, like last known good impedance of battery, or even voltage vs capacity data |
| 15:02.09 | kerio | get someone good with ARM assembler to figure out what's going on |
| 15:02.23 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I asked bme devs for formula and they wrote me that formula depends on data from CAL, and they cannot share it with me... |
| 15:02.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | we already did, but they gave up ;-P |
| 15:03.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: whatever, do we really care? |
| 15:03.52 | kerio | don't we have other temp monitors in the n900? |
| 15:03.52 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 15:04.09 | kerio | temp monitors that don't need magic data in CAL |
| 15:04.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if those "bme devels" are so numb they can't even share a general description of what that formula does in plain english |
| 15:04.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no |
| 15:04.44 | kerio | why do we need a temp monitor anyway? |
| 15:04.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | because |
| 15:06.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I suggest you never mind what those "bme devels" told you |
| 15:06.52 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because what? |
| 15:07.02 | kerio | if it's just a matter of "omg shut down everything" then we don't need accuracy |
| 15:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | could mean everything from "I was too bored to look up what that's all about", to "the whole source got lost and we can't find it anymore" to "this is a verbatim copy of some (C) code used in cmt" |
| 15:07.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: see my post above |
| 15:08.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-10 14:47:23] <DocScrutinizer05> after all this sensor is pretty inaccurate by hw design |
| 15:08.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-10 14:48:50] <DocScrutinizer05> and given the purpose of that temperature value for system (or any other possible usecase) we are probably fine with an accuracy of +-3°C, maybe even worse |
| 15:08.56 | *** join/#maemo Ash786 (~Adium@unaffiliated/meegoexperts) |
| 15:10.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: Pali: >>charging allowed between -25°C..+50°C<< (L3_4) |
| 15:10.41 | Pali | yes, I saw it |
| 15:11.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | just giving a rationale why we "need" that friggin sensor at all |
| 15:12.00 | kerio | what happens if we charge below -25°C? |
| 15:12.29 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 15:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it simply won't charge (with bme) or break the cell (when forcing charging) |
| 15:12.51 | kerio | break the cell? D: |
| 15:13.18 | kerio | man, i sure hope i'll never try to charge while i am IN A FUCKING ICEBERG |
| 15:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, cell manufs aren't vebose on what will happen if you disobey their abs max ratings |
| 15:13.53 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: over 50°C is riskier, because that's actually kinda believable |
| 15:14.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 15:14.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB that's ambient temp |
| 15:14.34 | kerio | oh, then it's not believable either |
| 15:14.56 | kerio | the insides of my laptop reach 100 |
| 15:14.57 | kerio | er |
| 15:15.07 | kerio | the insides of my laptop reach 100+ °C, when playing minecraft |
| 15:15.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | not your battery ;-P |
| 15:15.30 | kerio | i certainly hope so |
| 15:15.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | your battery is toast on 100°C |
| 15:15.43 | kerio | my battery is toast already |
| 15:15.46 | kerio | 1696 cycles |
| 15:15.47 | kerio | so far |
| 15:15.56 | kerio | and it still survives two or three hours |
| 15:15.58 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:16.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | not bad |
| 15:16.19 | kerio | fuck yeah apple |
| 15:16.21 | kerio | :D |
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| 15:16.31 | *** join/#maemo Woody14619 (~Woody@Maemo/Community/council/Woody14619) |
| 15:17.00 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 15:17.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, place your friggin N900 into fridge (NOT freezer!) next time you do such a test with that listing-proggie |
| 15:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | a temperature change range of less than 10°C during test will not produce anything useful |
| 15:18.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | (well, you even *might* try freezer, shouldn't harm device) |
| 15:19.45 | jon_y | water condensation! |
| 15:19.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | start logging, place into freezer for 15min, get it out again and continue logging for another 15min |
| 15:20.20 | kerio | jon_y: in a plastic bag? |
| 15:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | better not |
| 15:20.55 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I think I have formula |
| 15:20.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | you migt want to wrap it into a cloth, with screen facing down, after freezer |
| 15:21.13 | Pali | log(13312, 10765)*(ADCIN0+256)+7 |
| 15:21.29 | kerio | yay, magic numbers |
| 15:21.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 15:21.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever that means |
| 15:22.11 | Pali | log(base, t_ref)*(ADCIN0+gain)+7 |
| 15:22.20 | Pali | base, t_ref and gain is from CAL |
| 15:22.21 | kerio | you see, log is the inverse function of the exponential function |
| 15:22.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like utter BS |
| 15:22.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | since log(13312, 10765) is a constant |
| 15:22.47 | Pali | DSME doing real_temp = bme_temp-7 |
| 15:23.28 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@88.130.215.91) |
| 15:23.35 | Pali | base, t_ref and gain I got via libbmeipc request |
| 15:24.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I can't map this formula to my EE knowledge about NTC and ADC in any possible way |
| 15:25.14 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: clearly, you're not as good as the BME devs |
| 15:25.15 | kerio | :P |
| 15:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and log(base, t_ref) still is a constant value based on two constant values |
| 15:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes no sense |
| 15:25.52 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: those are values in CAL |
| 15:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yes, thanks. Seen that |
| 15:26.25 | *** join/#maemo setanta (setanta@nat/indt/x-mhviptlvnipukgmy) |
| 15:26.28 | kerio | maybe they didn't want to store the result for convenience? |
| 15:26.38 | kerio | maybe storing two ints is easier than a float |
| 15:26.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you entered trolling mode again? |
| 15:27.01 | kerio | maybe ;) |
| 15:27.09 | kerio | but seriously, if that crap fits the data... |
| 15:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | GET DATA! |
| 15:27.26 | kerio | I'M NOT PUTTING MY PHONE IN THE FRIDGE |
| 15:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless nothing to fit to |
| 15:27.44 | kerio | i would have to explain too many things to my parents |
| 15:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/unless/otherwise/ |
| 15:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | FFS |
| 15:28.25 | kerio | Pali: put your phone in the fridge! |
| 15:28.31 | Pali | :D |
| 15:28.37 | Pali | better is to charge phone |
| 15:28.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/temp_collect |
| 15:28.59 | Pali | when charging temperature is increasing... |
| 15:29.43 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:30.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: what's that ^^^? binary? dpkg? |
| 15:30.39 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, armel elf |
| 15:30.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | k |
| 15:30.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | sissies! ;-P |
| 15:31.29 | Pali | $ mad gcc temp_collect.c libbmeipc.so.0 -o temp_collect |
| 15:32.20 | kerio | wtf is mad |
| 15:33.15 | kerio | Pali: btw, you've lost an opportunity to install a rootkit in my phone |
| 15:33.33 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon (~freemango@130-204-50-168.2074221835.ddns.cablebg.net) |
| 15:33.38 | Pali | mad is part of MADDE |
| 15:33.40 | kerio | freemangordon! |
| 15:33.44 | kerio | Pali is here! |
| 15:34.04 | vi_ | kerio: mad is what you are, bro. |
| 15:34.09 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.49.190.66) |
| 15:34.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: wtf doesn't piping output of temp_collect work? |
| 15:35.45 | kerio | it does? |
| 15:36.00 | kerio | or maybe http://i.qkme.me/3qujl6.jpg |
| 15:36.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sure *my* N900 will enjoy a short chill-out |
| 15:37.09 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: does wifi work from inside the fridge? |
| 15:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, obviously |
| 15:37.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | flawless |
| 15:37.38 | freemangordon | Pali: hi. sorry I didn;t answer your mail, but I was on holiday |
| 15:37.48 | Pali | hi! |
| 15:37.49 | Pali | ok |
| 15:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | down from 305 52 to 301 58 |
| 15:38.26 | Pali | hald-addon-bme is now working with bq2415x and bq27200 modules |
| 15:38.28 | freemangordon | Pali: anyway, I was thinking to add BCI driver to monitor backup battery voltage and battery temperature |
| 15:38.44 | freemangordon | Pali: great, how do you get battery temp? |
| 15:38.54 | Pali | read log |
| 15:39.02 | freemangordon | Pali: ok |
| 15:39.04 | freemangordon | :) |
| 15:39.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:39.23 | Pali | wtf? |
| 15:39.35 | kerio | oh lawds |
| 15:39.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, wtf == your-formula |
| 15:39.53 | Pali | ok, so it does not working... |
| 15:40.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:40.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:41.43 | freemangordon | Pali: why not use libmeipc for dsme-thermalobject-surface? |
| 15:42.04 | freemangordon | or I am missing something |
| 15:42.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:42.13 | Pali | freemangordon, because open libbmeipc is not ready yet |
| 15:42.31 | freemangordon | Pali: but it only needs temp reading, everything else is in place |
| 15:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:42.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:43.27 | Pali | freemangordon, we can always use old unpatched dsme-... it is opensource |
| 15:43.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:43.56 | freemangordon | Pali: I know, the point was that it is not the only one to use libmeipc IIRC |
| 15:44.20 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, thanks for data |
| 15:44.22 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what has happened with our "conclusion" about thermistor type? |
| 15:44.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:45.13 | freemangordon | Pali: there is a formula in kernel to calculate battery temp in bci_???? driver |
| 15:45.33 | freemangordon | it only needs a table specific for the thermistor used |
| 15:45.54 | Pali | freemangordon, show link |
| 15:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:46.04 | freemangordon | and by looking in datasheets it seems that thermistor MIGHT be THP05 |
| 15:46.10 | freemangordon | Pali: jus a minute |
| 15:46.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:47.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we get it |
| 15:48.27 | kerio | it's not the formula that you said it wasn't |
| 15:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, you get it as long as I post it, since friggin pali's temp_reader doesn't work when piping output to a file or less or whatever |
| 15:49.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm delivering proper data for a LUT or binimail formula |
| 15:49.47 | freemangordon | Pali: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c#521 |
| 15:51.09 | freemangordon | Pali: we should be able to get LUT by using BME temp readout and calcualted resistance |
| 15:52.18 | freemangordon | But I was planning a driver who is a subset of twl4030_bci_battery and exports temp and backup battery voltage througe /sys/power/... |
| 15:52.48 | freemangordon | s/ througe/through/ |
| 15:53.25 | Pali | sounds good |
| 15:54.11 | freemangordon | that way libbmeipc will get battery temp from kernel |
| 15:54.18 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.140) |
| 15:54.30 | freemangordon | instead or returning hardcoded 35 deg as of now :D |
| 15:54.48 | Pali | I already have formula for converting ADCIN12 (raw battery voltage) to mV |
| 15:55.02 | Pali | disassembled from bsi-read maemo armel binary |
| 15:55.10 | freemangordon | Pali: the whole formula is in the kernel, look ath the link I posted |
| 15:55.36 | freemangordon | voltage is not sufficient |
| 15:55.50 | freemangordon | you need current too :) |
| 15:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.30 | freemangordon | Pali: is that supposed to be Kelvin/Celsius? |
| 15:56.40 | freemangordon | the values doc is posting |
| 15:56.45 | Pali | kelvin raw |
| 15:56.56 | freemangordon | ok |
| 15:57.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: wait, your fridge gets to 0°C? |
| 15:57.24 | kerio | :o |
| 15:57.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:57.34 | kerio | oic |
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| 15:59.00 | Pali | we can patch twl-adc kernel driver to report our raw value and then ask bme for converted :D |
| 15:59.06 | jacekowski | kerio: mine goes to under 0C |
| 15:59.18 | kerio | jacekowski: but your milk will be frozen! |
| 15:59.19 | kerio | D: |
| 15:59.20 | jacekowski | kerio: i can leave stuff in it on bottom shelf and it will freeze |
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| 16:03.24 | freemangordon | Pali: why, we have a fully functional BCI driver, we just need to strip (or #if BCI_BATTERY_FULL) what is unneeded |
| 16:03.47 | freemangordon | Pali: I've already have a working backup battery voltage reading driver |
| 16:03.51 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 16:03.58 | Pali | ok |
| 16:04.01 | freemangordon | s/I've/I/ |
| 16:04.55 | freemangordon | Pali: But I want new -thumb out before doing it |
| 16:05.04 | freemangordon | which reminds me... |
| 16:05.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^C |
| 16:06.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: put it in the oven now! |
| 16:07.01 | Pali | now other question: have all N900 same thermal chip? |
| 16:07.39 | Pali | are these values correct for all N900 or only for DocScrutinizer05 one? |
| 16:07.47 | freemangordon | Pali: elborate please, as battery temp is read using adcin2 |
| 16:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://pastebin.ca/2202901 |
| 16:08.08 | Pali | freemangordon, no, battery temperature is adcin0 |
| 16:08.19 | freemangordon | yeah, right, my bad |
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| 16:09.37 | freemangordon | Pali: can you rework your tem_read (or whatever the name is) to output the values for the resistance according to the formula in the kernel? |
| 16:10.01 | freemangordon | in parallel with BME temp reading? |
| 16:10.43 | freemangordon | Pali: so we will be able to find what R/T LUT is |
| 16:10.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | can you inport http://pastebin.ca/2202901 as CSV to a spreadsheet and calculate it there? |
| 16:11.14 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: we dont have BME temp there AIUI |
| 16:11.47 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ |
| 16:12.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI it's bmetemp/ADCIN0_raw tuples |
| 16:13.01 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ADCIN0 is not enough, we need resistance |
| 16:13.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 16:13.21 | freemangordon | i.e. we need current too |
| 16:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, we don't since that's not anything we can readout |
| 16:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a constant |
| 16:14.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, even a function of resistance of NTC |
| 16:14.06 | freemangordon | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c#534 |
| 16:14.33 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ |
| 16:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 16:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | you expect a EE to read C sourcecode to gather what non-EE figured how a resistive divider works? |
| 16:15.37 | freemangordon | "/* Getting and calculating the supply current in micro ampers */" |
| 16:15.41 | freemangordon | that ^^^ |
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| 16:16.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | Uout==ADC-result==Uin(const) * NTC / (R1(const) + NTC) |
| 16:16.47 | freemangordon | not the code, but what it does. Reads the current :) |
| 16:16.57 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: get off your high and beautifully engineered horse |
| 16:18.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | NTC => Negative_Temperature_Coefficient --> the lower the temperature, the higher the NTC resistance in Ohms, in above formula |
| 16:18.42 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no matter if the current is constant, we still need to find it. Though we can use voltage only (when the current is constant) it looks ugly. And you're not guaranteed it is really constant |
| 16:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | argo: lower temperature -> higher ADCIN0 reading |
| 16:19.06 | freemangordon | we don;t know what happens on suspend/resume, etc |
| 16:19.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | current is NOT constant |
| 16:19.41 | freemangordon | that is why we need to read it |
| 16:20.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Ivar = U(const) / (R1(const) + NTC(var)) |
| 16:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | you CAN NOT read current |
| 16:20.30 | freemangordon | though IIRC ADCIN0 is current generator (or whatever the english term is) |
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| 16:20.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a function of NTC and it has no other input to read it than ADCIN0 |
| 16:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik it's not |
| 16:21.04 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: lemme check in datasheet |
| 16:21.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever it is, it's pretty simple to calculate proper values for R1, Uin and NTC curve, from above pasted table I just created |
| 16:22.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it's actually claiming to be constant-current-source, you're fine with assuming Uin=200V and R1=200kR |
| 16:22.48 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: if I read the doc correctly adcin1 is "current source" |
| 16:22.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever you like to use for that |
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| 16:23.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end it all just doesn't matter |
| 16:24.31 | freemangordon | yeah, but it is better to read what the curent si (or expected to be), than hardcoding the table as U/T |
| 16:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I strongly suggest to use a LUT for true ADCIN reading vs temperature in Kelvin, and interpolate between the maybe 32 support points |
| 16:25.17 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: disagree, it is better to build a R/T LUT, no matter the number of points |
| 16:25.47 | freemangordon | as "current source" can have several settings for current |
| 16:25.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | pffff |
| 16:27.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you really had understood the formula, you'd also see it's pretty simple to convert that LUT for whatever you like |
| 16:27.33 | freemangordon | sure, what I am saying is we should use R/T from the start |
| 16:27.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there's no sound rationale to use a LUT and then process that via a formula that only uses constants |
| 16:28.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | everybody would go "WTF? why didn't they do this calculation pre-compiletime??" |
| 16:28.44 | freemangordon | because the current is not known by the time of compilation |
| 16:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | IT IS! |
| 16:29.15 | freemangordon | gimme a minute to find adcin1 current source register in docs |
| 16:29.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's only one sane setting for current, with this NTC and this temperature range |
| 16:29.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't give a shit about it |
| 16:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure Nokia already used optimal setting |
| 16:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we don't need to use any other than that |
| 16:30.34 | freemangordon | well, if you don't give a shit about docs, I don;t see a point continuing that conversation with you :). And I am pretty sure TI know how their chips work way better than Nokia |
| 16:30.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 16:31.11 | freemangordon | not to say I don;t see a pint to make yet another BME |
| 16:31.14 | freemangordon | *point |
| 16:31.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure I know about resistive devicers better than you |
| 16:31.22 | freemangordon | irellevant |
| 16:31.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | as is your bitching about current |
| 16:31.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ad auctoritatem? |
| 16:32.24 | freemangordon | no, it is not. what I am saying is that it can be done in your way (voltage reading only), but it will be ugly |
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| 16:32.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | pffff |
| 16:32.49 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you appear to be leaking air from somewhere |
| 16:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | obfuscated c contest or what? |
| 16:34.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will be ugly to use sophisticated formula for calculating current that **has only one usable setting for this circuit** |
| 16:35.03 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: we are talking about kernel driver here :S |
| 16:35.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | any other setting will result in ADC range at the limits for the temperature range we're interested in |
| 16:35.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
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| 16:36.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | the rationale of particular circuit/NTC-type needs ONE particular R1 or current setting to operate ADC in proper range is universal |
| 16:36.50 | freemangordon | I won't save 5 instructions if I can do it in the "right" way. Hardcoding wor a particualr setup is deffinitely not that "right" way |
| 16:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no reason to add cruft to allow runtime parameters for that, not even in kernel drivers |
| 16:37.37 | freemangordon | did you look at the code? |
| 16:38.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, runtime calculating boarb-parameter specific stuff is not the right way |
| 16:38.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | board* |
| 16:38.54 | freemangordon | then it should go in board specific files, not in the main driver |
| 16:39.29 | freemangordon | as it is bci_battery, not rx51_bci_battery |
| 16:39.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's exactly one setting for current, in every hardware. No way to switch that for whatever reasons during runtime. So pretty please don't use this setting as a input var for runtime calculations |
| 16:40.13 | freemangordon | still don't get why. larger code or what? |
| 16:40.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it *will never cahnge* at runtime |
| 16:40.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | such things get calculated at compile time |
| 16:41.37 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: see, the way I write code is something like: write it in a way so you can reuse it in the future. Feel free to write that driver according to your understandings |
| 16:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | if your friggin code isn't reusable when you can't do calculations on target that belong into #define, then I dunno what your code looks like |
| 16:43.45 | freemangordon | anyway, I am losing too much time arguing |
| 16:44.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, better write crappy code than do crappy arguing |
| 16:44.17 | freemangordon | exactly |
| 16:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I thought |
| 16:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 16:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course you can calculate Uout==ADC-result==Uin(const) * NTC / (R1(const) + NTC) at runtime, alas I think nobody will understand the reason why this has to eat up any CPU cycles, since NTC->temp comes from a LUT anyway, and it's the only vatiable in that formula, since R1 is CONSTANT! |
| 16:48.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka board-parameter-specific |
| 16:48.38 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you can do that calculation *once* though |
| 16:49.08 | Pali | seems that bci-battery code is not in upstream kernel... |
| 16:49.22 | Pali | driver is only in maemo kernel |
| 16:49.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonder why ;-P |
| 16:50.06 | freemangordon | Pali: yes, there are several patches sent to lkml, like bci_charger, etc. Seems none have made it |
| 16:50.39 | Pali | bci_charger is upstreamed |
| 16:51.24 | Pali | but there is no therm_tbl table |
| 16:51.35 | freemangordon | Pali: it is board specific |
| 16:51.58 | freemangordon | driver gets it through platform data |
| 16:51.58 | Pali | in maemo kernel there is code for therm_tbl, but not in upstream kerne |
| 16:52.18 | freemangordon | hmm, is there temp readout at all? |
| 16:52.18 | Pali | bci_charger do not get any these data |
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| 16:53.06 | Pali | there is no temperature code |
| 16:53.17 | freemangordon | hmm, clever :) |
| 16:53.52 | freemangordon | Pali: madc-hwmon? |
| 16:54.09 | freemangordon | (or whatever the driver name was) |
| 16:54.36 | Pali | it reading only raw value, but from adcin1 channel |
| 16:54.47 | Pali | not usable on n900 too |
| 16:54.48 | freemangordon | yes, that is the correct channel |
| 16:55.03 | Pali | no, n900 has adcin0 |
| 16:55.04 | freemangordon | could that be the reason your temp_input fails? |
| 16:55.10 | freemangordon | Pali: no, it is adcin1 |
| 16:55.16 | freemangordon | lemme check once again |
| 16:55.38 | Pali | see Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf |
| 16:55.44 | Pali | ADCIN0 - temp |
| 16:56.07 | Pali | BME also using ADCIN0 |
| 16:56.38 | freemangordon | from TRM: |
| 16:56.40 | freemangordon | ADCIN0 External Battery type (BTYPE) |
| 16:56.47 | freemangordon | ADCIN1 External BCI: Battery temperature (BTEMP) |
| 16:56.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: one is BSI (often used as in-battery temperature sensor, NOT on N900 though), the other is true battery temp sensor |
| 16:57.15 | Pali | I asked BME for raw value of temperature and it returns me same value as twl4030 adcin0 kernel driver |
| 16:58.02 | freemangordon | Pali: NFC, that is what is written in TPS65950 TRM |
| 16:58.25 | Pali | ADCIN4 is BSI (from Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf) |
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| 17:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: according to my scheamtics ADCIN0 is "Bettry Temeprature Sensor" BTEMP R1110 on ball H4 |
| 17:03.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ADCIN4 is BSI |
| 17:03.22 | Pali | I already wrote this |
| 17:03.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ADCIN1 isn't used |
| 17:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you wrote that |
| 17:04.41 | freemangordon | well, something does not make sense here, in all TI docs it is ADCIN1 that is used for battery temp sensor, while ADCIN0 is either Battery Type or GP |
| 17:04.47 | Pali | hm, ADCIN1 returns value 34 or 35 |
| 17:04.52 | Pali | on my n900 |
| 17:05.29 | Pali | note that TI docs are for GP devices, not HS |
| 17:05.48 | Pali | maybe some stupid changes for Nokia or by Nokia... |
| 17:05.57 | freemangordon | Pali: it is for TWL4030, it does not matter GP/HS AIUI |
| 17:06.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: the "stupid change" is called schematics, or design |
| 17:06.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia is free to use the chip in whatever way they feel may fit their needs |
| 17:06.58 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: makes no sense, all of the monitoring is done on ADCIN1 |
| 17:07.07 | Pali | other question, do we know how to get design battery capacity from BSI raw value? |
| 17:07.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 17:07.49 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: why? iirc it is some resistor there |
| 17:08.01 | freemangordon | (if connected) |
| 17:08.05 | Pali | we have armel binary bsi-read and it show me: raw BSI: 463, BSI: 990 |
| 17:08.30 | Pali | I already looked at that binary for BSI and is using some tables for conversation |
| 17:08.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | so this binary at least pretends to 'know' |
| 17:08.52 | Pali | but what BSI: 990 means? |
| 17:09.02 | kerio | hehe, a table for conversation |
| 17:09.05 | freemangordon | ohms? |
| 17:09.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously it's quite off with its "knowledge", since battery isn't 990mAh |
| 17:09.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither Ohm nor kOhms |
| 17:10.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe Nokia internal battery product number ;-P |
| 17:10.29 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 17:10.57 | Pali | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME |
| 17:11.08 | Pali | are values for BSI here correct? |
| 17:11.11 | freemangordon | anyway, AFAIK there is internal resistor in every battery which is related to its capacity |
| 17:11.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | since there are no Nokia alternatives for BL-5J, it's moot to speculate how to derive bat capacity from BSI. There's no real life instance to proof any hypothesis against |
| 17:12.04 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: mine bl5j is 1430 mAh |
| 17:12.23 | Pali | freemangordon, run bsi-read |
| 17:12.28 | Pali | as root |
| 17:12.35 | freemangordon | is it preinstalled? |
| 17:12.38 | Pali | yes |
| 17:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | to get what? |
| 17:13.07 | freemangordon | Nokia-N900:~# bsi-read |
| 17:13.09 | freemangordon | raw BSI ADC reading: 493 |
| 17:13.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | the product tolerance of BSI resistor? |
| 17:13.11 | freemangordon | BSI: 1114 |
| 17:13.13 | freemangordon | raw battery level: 630 |
| 17:13.15 | freemangordon | battery level: 3695 |
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| 17:13.30 | freemangordon | Pali: bingo |
| 17:13.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | bingo what? |
| 17:14.42 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: BSI resistor should be in linear dependance with capacity |
| 17:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | says who? |
| 17:15.02 | jacekowski | well, you can kinda expect that they use same BSI values for all batteries |
| 17:15.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | no you can't |
| 17:15.29 | Pali | RAW and BSI which are printed by bsi-read are not linear |
| 17:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 17:15.54 | Pali | I looked into asm code and there is lot of math code for converting |
| 17:15.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | does this leave us any wiser? regarding what ? |
| 17:16.04 | freemangordon | battery capacity |
| 17:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and it converts to nokia internal virtual birthday of Elop |
| 17:16.54 | freemangordon | ~(1360/990)*1114 |
| 17:16.54 | infobot | 1530.343434343434 |
| 17:16.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously it's totally wrong even for BL-5J |
| 17:17.11 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 17:17.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 17:17.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | are you calculating Pi or what? |
| 17:17.47 | freemangordon | ~(1360/463)*493 |
| 17:17.47 | infobot | 1448.120950323974 |
| 17:18.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | wf? |
| 17:18.04 | freemangordon | Pali: you use 1360 Mah battery, ain't? |
| 17:18.19 | Pali | standard bl5j |
| 17:18.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, like we all do |
| 17:18.35 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no, as I already told you mine is 1430 mAh |
| 17:18.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh, and certified by Nokia I assume |
| 17:19.07 | freemangordon | I took it from asha |
| 17:19.17 | freemangordon | original Nokia |
| 17:19.27 | Pali | lshal | grep design |
| 17:19.46 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: google a bit, all new bl5j batteries are 1430 |
| 17:19.51 | Pali | battery.reporting.design = 1258 |
| 17:19.58 | kerio | neat |
| 17:20.02 | freemangordon | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:20.12 | kerio | freemangordon: are those better than a scud blue dream? |
| 17:20.24 | freemangordon | Pali: WTF? why 1258? |
| 17:20.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, so we actually have a certified Nokia real life instance to test against, fine! then we *might* RE their formula |
| 17:20.30 | Pali | no idea |
| 17:20.41 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yes |
| 17:21.05 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: can you run the same bsi-read? |
| 17:21.10 | freemangordon | it is preinstalled |
| 17:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | raw BSI ADC reading: 466 |
| 17:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | BSI: 1002 |
| 17:21.41 | freemangordon | (1360/1002)*1114 |
| 17:21.45 | freemangordon | ~(1360/1002)*1114 |
| 17:21.45 | infobot | 1512.015968063872 |
| 17:21.59 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 17:22.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: lshal | grep design ? |
| 17:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 17:22.52 | freemangordon | ~(1276/1002)*1114 |
| 17:22.52 | infobot | 1418.626746506986 |
| 17:23.02 | freemangordon | here it is |
| 17:23.12 | freemangordon | <freemangordon> battery.reporting.design = 1415 (0x587) (int) |
| 17:23.41 | freemangordon | though their formule seems a little bit incorrect |
| 17:24.26 | Pali | when I call bsi-read more times, it show me different BSI |
| 17:24.36 | freemangordon | ~(1276.0/466.0)*493 |
| 17:24.36 | infobot | 1349.931330472103 |
| 17:25.11 | Pali | freemangordon, better try to disassemble that bsi-read under ida |
| 17:25.12 | freemangordon | Pali: not here, they remain the same |
| 17:25.17 | freemangordon | Pali: hehe |
| 17:25.39 | freemangordon | is going to cook some dinner, bbl |
| 17:25.51 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@183.2.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 17:26.06 | Pali | I used objdump and I only disassembled that battery level |
| 17:26.56 | Pali | battery level = (((((2099203 - (1LL<<31)) * level * 6000) >> 32) - ((level * 6000 << 1) >> 32) + (level * 6000)) >> 9) |
| 17:27.27 | Pali | no idea what this is, but it is in that armel binary... |
| 17:27.42 | kerio | question: should i buy a polarcell or not? |
| 17:28.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: bsi-read battery level looks like mV |
| 17:29.28 | Pali | yes, it could be |
| 17:29.36 | Pali | but what that formula means??? |
| 17:30.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | *5.86 |
| 17:31.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~630 * 5.86 |
| 17:31.20 | infobot | 3691.8 |
| 17:31.48 | Pali | some good approximation of that formula could be: battery level = level * 3003 / 512 |
| 17:31.52 | Pali | but it is not same |
| 17:32.46 | Pali | and about BSI, seems that design_capacity/BSI is 1.26 |
| 17:33.34 | Pali | 1415/1114=1.2701 1258/994=1.2655 1276/1002=1.2734 |
| 17:33.40 | Pali | or 1.27 |
| 17:34.10 | *** join/#maemo Zahra (~Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax) |
| 17:34.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/home/user/MyDocs/tmp# level=630 echo $(( (((((2099203 - (1<<31)) * level * 6000) >> 32) - ((level * 6000 << 1) >> 32) + (level * 6000)) >> 9) )) |
| 17:34.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3695 |
| 17:34.54 | FIQ | http://maemo.org/news/ how come this is empty? |
| 17:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~630 * 5.86 |
| 17:35.40 | infobot | 3691.8 |
| 17:35.51 | Pali | 630*3003/512 |
| 17:35.56 | GeneralAntilles | FIQ, somebody broke the aggregator. |
| 17:35.58 | Pali | ~630*3003/512 |
| 17:35.58 | infobot | 3695.09765625 |
| 17:37.24 | Pali | ~(((((2099203 - (1<<31)) * 630 * 6000) >> 32) - ((630 * 6000 << 1) >> 32) + (630 * 6000)) >> 9) |
| 17:37.39 | GeneralAntilles | FIQ, https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=maemo.org%20Website |
| 17:38.06 | GeneralAntilles | Man, I forgot all of my Bugzilla URL kung-fu. |
| 17:38.13 | FIQ | need account for that apparently |
| 17:38.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | PALI!!! you killed her! |
| 17:39.19 | FIQ | ~ping |
| 17:39.19 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:39.21 | FIQ | lies |
| 17:39.33 | Pali | ~ping |
| 17:39.33 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly she's still calculating ;-P |
| 17:39.46 | Pali | dead or alive? |
| 17:40.28 | Pali | she should go back to school :-) |
| 17:41.12 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, this is the one I want. https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?alias=bug_severity=major&bug_status=NEW&component=News&product=maemo.org%20Website&bug_severity=major&op_sys=All&rep_platform=All |
| 17:42.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...and cheers |
| 17:43.53 | GeneralAntilles | FIQ, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12663 |
| 17:43.54 | povbot | 04Bug 12663: http://maemo.org/news/ is missing the news content |
| 17:44.06 | GeneralAntilles | (if somebody wants to confirm it, that'd be great) |
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| 18:31.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: just in case you need some more support points for your LUT: http://pastebin.ca/2202939 |
| 18:32.12 | Pali | ok, thanks |
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| 18:32.47 | Pali | I started writing simple power supply driver which export temperature and voltage via sysfs |
| 18:32.56 | Pali | very simple |
| 18:34.48 | spoofy | Hi. Can someone compile postgres for maemo? Anyone solved the problem of postgresql and metasploit? |
| 18:38.33 | spoofy | I tried to compile postgres (9.2beta) in scratchbox but I can't make .deb package |
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| 19:07.29 | freemangordon | Pali: why not reuse bci_battery? |
| 19:07.48 | Pali | I do not know why |
| 19:07.55 | Pali | what you can reuse? |
| 19:08.10 | freemangordon | temp reading and backup battery voltage |
| 19:09.12 | freemangordon | Pali: btw there is nor hexrays for ARM (in IDA i have here) |
| 19:09.21 | freemangordon | s/nor/no/ |
| 19:09.48 | Pali | for battery voltage we already have formula |
| 19:09.51 | freemangordon | so not much of a difference between IDA and objdump |
| 19:09.59 | freemangordon | Pali: backup battery ;) |
| 19:10.12 | Pali | ok |
| 19:10.38 | freemangordon | Pali: and it is integrated as a platform driver with twl4030 |
| 19:10.55 | freemangordon | and registers itself as power_supply |
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| 19:12.06 | freemangordon | just #ifdef the main battery/charger code , add temp table in rx51_peripherals.c and you're good to go |
| 19:15.35 | timeless | fwiw, the answer to my question about Paul Lee Phil or whatever is apparently polyfill and not polyfil |
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| 19:15.54 | freemangordon | Pali: http://pastebin.com/1y99T166 |
| 19:16.09 | freemangordon | this is mine stripped down version |
| 19:16.11 | timeless | and the prize for getting it wrong is awarded to android |
| 19:16.27 | freemangordon | Pali: it reads backup battery voltage |
| 19:16.36 | Pali | ok |
| 19:18.29 | freemangordon | Pali: you will need also http://pastebin.com/Sr2A9DuY in board-rx51-peripherals.c |
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| 19:18.56 | freemangordon | Pali: and you'll need to add .bci= &rx51_bci_data, |
| 19:19.03 | freemangordon | in rx51_twldata |
| 19:19.33 | freemangordon | Pali: though that was quick'n'dirty way to check if backup battery is charged at all |
| 19:19.47 | freemangordon | so you may find a batter way to integrate it |
| 19:20.17 | Pali | ok |
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| 19:46.11 | ZogG_laptop | sup guys |
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| 20:07.34 | kerio | what is the nokia-binaries repo supposed to be? |
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| 20:35.32 | Sicelo | btw, that MyDocs should be named after the Bluetooth name in File Manager seems a weird decision |
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| 20:43.06 | kerio | well, that's the only "name of the phone" |
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| 20:51.51 | freemangordon | Pali: the formula to convert BSI raw value to BSI value is (1200*bsi_raw)/(1024-bsi_raw) |
| 20:52.48 | Pali | ~(1200*463)/(1024-463) |
| 20:52.48 | infobot | 990.374331550802 |
| 20:52.53 | Pali | nice :-) |
| 20:53.05 | Pali | 990 is correct |
| 20:53.49 | Pali | ~990*1.27 |
| 20:53.49 | infobot | 1257.3 |
| 20:54.01 | Pali | sounds good |
| 20:54.14 | freemangordon | sounds correct :D |
| 20:54.28 | Pali | so raw bsi to design capacity is: 1.27*(1200*bsi_raw)/(1024-bsi_raw) |
| 20:54.53 | freemangordon | though I think 1.27 is a bit incorrect |
| 20:54.55 | Pali | ~1.27*(1200*463)/(1024-463) |
| 20:54.55 | infobot | 1257.775401069519 |
| 20:55.11 | freemangordon | a bit too low |
| 20:55.21 | Pali | 1415/1114=1.2701 1258/994=1.2655 1276/1002=1.2734 |
| 20:55.32 | freemangordon | Pali: are you sure your battery is genuine nokia 1360 mAh? |
| 20:55.50 | Pali | I did not changed battery |
| 20:56.01 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 20:56.14 | freemangordon | ~1430/1114 |
| 20:56.14 | infobot | 1.283662477558 |
| 20:56.44 | Pali | ~1415/1114 |
| 20:56.44 | infobot | 1.270197486535 |
| 20:57.16 | Pali | seems that bme using 1.27xxx |
| 20:58.05 | freemangordon | Pali: yes |
| 20:58.18 | freemangordon | ~1118*1.27 |
| 20:58.18 | infobot | 1419.86 |
| 20:58.28 | freemangordon | ~1118*1.275 |
| 20:58.28 | infobot | 1425.45 |
| 20:58.35 | freemangordon | ~1118*1.278 |
| 20:58.35 | infobot | 1428.804 |
| 20:58.41 | freemangordon | ~1118*1.28 |
| 20:58.41 | infobot | 1431.04 |
| 20:58.56 | freemangordon | Pali: should be 1.28 |
| 20:59.03 | freemangordon | ~1114*1.28 |
| 20:59.03 | infobot | 1425.92 |
| 20:59.20 | freemangordon | my battery is 1430 mAh |
| 20:59.33 | Pali | ~994*1.28 |
| 20:59.33 | infobot | 1272.32 |
| 20:59.45 | freemangordon | and I get either 1114 or 1118 |
| 21:00.03 | Pali | 1272 could be |
| 21:00.19 | freemangordon | Pali: how is that, it should be 1360 |
| 21:00.30 | freemangordon | IIRC |
| 21:00.34 | Pali | it is not 1260? |
| 21:00.38 | Pali | or 1270? |
| 21:00.39 | freemangordon | no |
| 21:01.02 | kerio | i just disabled the sdk and nokia-binaries repos :D |
| 21:01.23 | freemangordon | Pali: 1320 |
| 21:01.25 | freemangordon | :D |
| 21:01.33 | freemangordon | checked on my second n900 |
| 21:01.40 | Pali | I remebmer that I read somewhere that bl5j batteries in n900 was not 13xx but only 12[6|7]0 |
| 21:02.01 | freemangordon | it is written 1320 |
| 21:02.49 | freemangordon | and according to what I remember from battery thread on tmo, it is around that value |
| 21:02.59 | freemangordon | th real capacity |
| 21:04.11 | freemangordon | Pali: something is fishy here |
| 21:05.55 | freemangordon | but anyway, that is how bsi-read calculates BSI |
| 21:07.13 | ShadowJK | iirc bme reported capacity for me has been around 1250 |
| 21:07.32 | kerio | BSI: 998 |
| 21:07.33 | kerio | D: |
| 21:07.35 | ShadowJK | for orig bl-5j |
| 21:07.50 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: but it should be around 1320 |
| 21:07.54 | kerio | for original bl-5j |
| 21:08.20 | Pali | freemangordon, bq27200 chip never reported more than 1250 after learning cycles... |
| 21:08.52 | freemangordon | kerio: and what is the output from lshal | grep design |
| 21:09.17 | freemangordon | Pali: ok, but how old is your battery? |
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| 21:09.24 | kerio | 1269 |
| 21:09.32 | kerio | 4200 voltage |
| 21:09.34 | Pali | year 2009 |
| 21:09.41 | freemangordon | Pali: see |
| 21:09.53 | kerio | i don't know how old mine is |
| 21:09.56 | Pali | is there any date? |
| 21:09.58 | kerio | but it's still pretty good |
| 21:10.06 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; i've never seen .design of bl-5j above 1300.. and never seen actual capacities above 1250-ish either :) |
| 21:10.41 | kerio | had an actual capacity of 1312mAh |
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| 21:10.46 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: but according to TMO thread the capacity is really around 1315 |
| 21:10.48 | kerio | now dropped to 1249 |
| 21:11.29 | ShadowJK | actual capacity on all of my Nokia BL-5J are about 1000mAh these days :) |
| 21:11.47 | kerio | should i buy one of those 1500mAh batteries from germany? |
| 21:11.50 | freemangordon | hehe. but this is not the same as design capacity :P |
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| 21:12.48 | freemangordon | ~1320/998 |
| 21:12.48 | infobot | 1.322645290581 |
| 21:13.16 | Pali | ShadowJK, I still have about 1200 |
| 21:13.26 | freemangordon | ~1430/1114 |
| 21:13.26 | infobot | 1.283662477558 |
| 21:13.34 | freemangordon | the fuck |
| 21:13.56 | freemangordon | Pali: I think we can use at least 1.28 |
| 21:14.34 | freemangordon | ~1118.0*1.28 |
| 21:14.34 | infobot | 1431.04 |
| 21:14.39 | freemangordon | perfect |
| 21:14.45 | freemangordon | ~1114.0*1.28 |
| 21:14.45 | infobot | 1425.92 |
| 21:16.03 | freemangordon | seems that on original batteries BSI resistor is badly calibrated. Or they are not 1320 mAh :D |
| 21:16.32 | freemangordon | ~998*1.28 |
| 21:16.32 | infobot | 1277.44 |
| 21:17.05 | freemangordon | ~1002*1.28 |
| 21:17.06 | infobot | 1282.56 |
| 21:17.15 | ShadowJK | or then thry didn't want to order odd value resistors and picked whatever was closest |
| 21:17.39 | freemangordon | yeah, could be |
| 21:18.22 | freemangordon | but 1.28 gives the correct capacity for my 1430 mAh BL5J |
| 21:18.49 | freemangordon | ~1114*1.32 |
| 21:18.49 | infobot | 1470.48 |
| 21:23.06 | ShadowJK | what resistance does that work out to? |
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| 21:23.52 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: not sure I understand, would you rephrase? |
| 21:25.26 | ShadowJK | I'm more familiar with resistance to mAh rather than adc reading? |
| 21:25.52 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: don;t know, never measuer it |
| 21:26.03 | freemangordon | measured* |
| 21:28.55 | ShadowJK | anyway, I have a vague memory that the relationship of resistance to capacity wasn't linear, and then when we're measuring the voltage of a voltage divider where bsi forms one part, the voltage reading isn't linear either |
| 21:29.20 | ShadowJK | so I'd think there's atleast a + or - term missing somewhere :P |
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| 21:30.18 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: well, (1200*bsi_raw)/(1024-bsi_raw) is EXACTLY what bsi-read does |
| 21:30.29 | freemangordon | don't know about BME though |
| 21:31.34 | freemangordon | though x/(a-x) is not exactly linear :) |
| 21:31.51 | freemangordon | (IIRC) |
| 21:33.04 | freemangordon | too lazy now to fire matlab to get the exact graphic :) |
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| 21:35.20 | ShadowJK | what does that return for bl-5j 1320? |
| 21:35.39 | freemangordon | around 1000 |
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| 21:36.26 | freemangordon | Pali's is 990, while doc's is 1002 |
| 21:36.40 | freemangordon | kerio has 998 |
| 21:37.57 | Pali | 982-990 |
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| 21:45.42 | ShadowJK | forgets if it was BL-5J or BP-4L that measures 100kR |
| 21:46.47 | ShadowJK | 1.2V = 1200, 1024 for 10 bit ADC? |
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| 21:47.32 | freemangordon | http://tinypic.com/r/95pz68/6 |
| 21:48.19 | freemangordon | deffinitely not linear |
| 21:49.00 | ShadowJK | i dont remember the schematics |
| 21:49.59 | ShadowJK | but bsi-read might be trying to read the resistance of the bsi resistor, and probably makes no attempt at converting it to mAh? |
| 21:50.31 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: deffinitely, it gives some BSI: value, whatever it means |
| 21:51.01 | ShadowJK | and I suspect for mAh it's going to be something like mAh = (bsiR + a) * b + c |
| 21:51.40 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: bsiR? raw or resistance |
| 21:52.21 | ShadowJK | resistance |
| 21:53.31 | freemangordon | could be, but why BME reports incorrect values then? |
| 21:54.29 | freemangordon | battery.reporting.design = 1415 here, for 1430 mAh battery |
| 21:54.52 | freemangordon | it is even worse for original batteries |
| 21:55.19 | freemangordon | 1250-1270 for 1320 mAh battery |
| 21:56.20 | ShadowJK | As for the original bl-5j, 1250 is more truthful :) |
| 21:56.57 | ShadowJK | but I've seen variation from boot to boot bigger than 1430-1415 |
| 21:58.08 | freemangordon | it might be that resistance depends on the temperature, thus variations |
| 21:58.09 | ShadowJK | For purposes of determining optimal charge current, +-100 is sufficient too.. |
| 21:59.06 | freemangordon | anyway, I am off for sleep |
| 21:59.09 | freemangordon | night |
| 22:00.30 | ShadowJK | nini |
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| 22:02.29 | jacekowski | freemangordon: well, resistors have tolerances |
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| 22:52.54 | Pali | here is source code kernel driver which export voltage, temperature and design capacity: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51_battery.c |
| 22:53.00 | Pali | tested and seems working fine |
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