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| 00:12.59 | ShadowJK | saw an iphone today |
| 00:13.35 | ShadowJK | it looks like an N810, except flattened, and sealed shut with brushed metal |
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| 02:28.21 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 02:29.31 | TiagoTiago | i know this is kinda offtopic, but it's just a quick question: Does anyone know if there is a forum for Samsung's Galaxy Note like how TMO is for the N900? |
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| 06:06.18 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no joy with BCI driver, too many missing pieces. I might want to write/backport a driver for backup battery only, but I'd rather wait you to play a bit with i2ctools first :) |
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| 07:02.25 | LaoLang_cool | How do you do audio recording on maemo from cli? |
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| 07:23.21 | gtk_is_it | hello world |
| 07:24.19 | niwakame | works |
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| 07:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: basically with arecord or the PA similar prog (forgot the name) - the big hurting problem though are PA policies, since those conflict with stuff like amixer, to set up recording source path. Maybe Pali can help. Also javispedro might know details how this crap works |
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| 07:34.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | LaoLang_cool: reading source of "recall" might also reveal some details how that app does special path setup |
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| 07:34.31 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer05, thank you for advice, I know how to use ffmpeg to take n900's screen recording, maybe it can do similar work too, I will be learning for that |
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| 08:05.36 | sambo7 | nandtester here-good morning...whatever cal-tool option I enter,I get a CAL ERROR: invalid header magic at addr...at least for all the get options-didn't check the set option,cause don't know what I could set here |
| 08:15.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | told you CAL is structured... not yours though anymore |
| 08:15.57 | kerio | haha |
| 08:16.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465 |
| 08:17.02 | kerio | sambo7: didn't you say you had another n900? |
| 08:17.36 | kerio | use that |
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| 08:19.49 | kerio | hm, how does CAL handle bad blocks? |
| 08:20.30 | jacekowski | i don't think it does |
| 08:20.39 | jacekowski | but cal is CoW |
| 08:21.17 | kerio | ~wtf CoW |
| 08:21.26 | kerio | hm |
| 08:22.47 | sambo7 | still waiting for the second N900 |
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| 08:23.44 | kerio | i just discovered that my n900 is a british one |
| 08:23.54 | kerio | and the wlan region is fcc/us |
| 08:23.55 | kerio | weird |
| 08:24.03 | kerio | the wifi region is definetely set to EU though |
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| 08:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | eheh, wifi vs wlan region? |
| 08:25.15 | kerio | idk |
| 08:25.29 | kerio | but i flashed Global on it |
| 08:25.37 | jacekowski | sambo7: does your fmtxd work? |
| 08:25.53 | sambo7 | can I copy a working CAL to my device?with nandwrite or cal-tool? |
| 08:26.08 | jacekowski | nandwrite |
| 08:27.46 | kerio | nanddump/nandwrite |
| 08:29.37 | sambo7 | jacekowski-what is fmtxd? |
| 08:29.56 | jacekowski | fm transmitter daemon |
| 08:30.02 | jacekowski | just check if your fm transmitter works |
| 08:30.35 | sambo7 | how can I check that? |
| 08:30.47 | jacekowski | iirc it's in settings |
| 08:30.53 | jacekowski | check if you can enable it |
| 08:34.57 | sambo7 | can#T find anything like that in setting--what about the fmtxd command in cli? |
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| 08:35.08 | jacekowski | fmtxd-client i believe |
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| 08:37.56 | sambo7 | I get : ERREOR: unable to set FmTx state...maybe because no freq configured |
| 08:38.22 | kerio | i bet the modified fmtxd would work :D |
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| 08:39.27 | sambo7 | maybe can post his current settings...I get my settings when I try to dis/enable it-but it's all 0 |
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| 08:43.53 | sambo7 | my settings right now are: version=1 frequency=0 freq_min=0 freq_max=0 freq_steps=100 state=n/a rds_ps=Nokia rds_text= |
| 08:44.15 | sambo7 | maybe I can enable it with proper freq settings |
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| 10:37.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | hey nandtester, you actually could wget the CAL image from maemo.cloud-7.de and dd it to /dev/mtd1. couldn't make things any worse |
| 10:40.46 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: you're lying, it totally could :D |
| 10:40.59 | kerio | also no, you're not supposed to dd with mtds |
| 10:47.09 | sambo7 | could try that later at home...right now, can't do it...so better keep away from dd'ing mtds? |
| 10:47.28 | kerio | you're supposed to use nandwrite |
| 10:47.37 | kerio | there's mtdblk*, but that's sillier |
| 10:47.47 | kerio | i don't think dd works with raw mtd devices |
| 10:48.04 | sambo7 | nadwrite might do the trick |
| 10:49.22 | sambo7 | usage: nandwrite [OPTION] MTD_DEVICE [INPUTFILE|-] ... writes to the specific MTD device...it says |
| 10:49.30 | kerio | yeah, nandwrite is the one to use |
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| 10:51.47 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: what's n9_goes_spooky.mp4? |
| 10:53.19 | sambo7 | I guess I don't have any other choice that checking that out |
| 10:53.47 | kerio | sambo7: hey, at least you've got *something* working now |
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| 10:53.56 | kerio | sambo7: btw, is it out of warranty? |
| 10:54.20 | sambo7 | maybe somebody who does have a hw rev 2101 could sned me a copy of his mtd1/CAL image |
| 10:54.30 | kerio | sambo7: which region is your n900? |
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| 10:55.20 | sambo7 | EU/Britain |
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| 11:06.17 | sambo7 | it's out of warranty |
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| 11:31.02 | westwallpoma | hw rev 2204 here, I'm afraid. |
| 11:31.45 | DocScrutinzrWrk | sambo7: there's http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mtd_debug_read_mtd1_0_0x60000.bin and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/dd_if=mtd1ro.bin (seems they are identical :-D ) Both hw2101 iirc |
| 11:32.24 | DocScrutinzrWrk | kerio: what the name says - a video when N9 acts on phantom input |
| 11:32.41 | DocScrutinzrWrk | probably touchscreen gone mad |
| 11:32.44 | kerio | oic |
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| 11:46.50 | freemangordon | DocScrutinzrWrk: did you see my comment re BCI? |
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| 11:49.30 | westwallpoma | BEFORE you close a web page make sure you scroll up to the top, so it’s in the right position for the next person. |
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| 11:58.13 | DocScrutinzrWrk | freemangordon: you hoping for me using i2ctools? yep, seen that |
| 11:58.40 | DocScrutinzrWrk | alas accessing twl4030 isn't exactly trivial |
| 11:59.29 | DocScrutinzrWrk | some registers are are locked |
| 12:03.47 | kerio | yeah but the bupbat-related stuff has to be unlocked |
| 12:03.51 | kerio | the charging has to be software-controlled |
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| 12:25.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: what makes you think bupbat charging should be done under sw control? |
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| 12:25.46 | kerio | isn't that the whole problem? |
| 12:26.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | nope, not even verified there's any problem at all |
| 12:26.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | in soft/firmware |
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| 13:29.18 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: backup battery charging should be enabled in SW |
| 13:30.15 | jacekowski | i thought that backup battery problem is that the battery is not of the best quality |
| 13:30.28 | freemangordon | I was hoping if you can verify whether it is enabled or not (by using i2ctools). Kernel for sure does not enable it, as the driver is disabled |
| 13:30.33 | jacekowski | and well, to be honest i've never seen a phone that would really need that battery to last more than few minutes |
| 13:30.58 | freemangordon | jacekowski: yeah, but it lasts 3-4 seconds at best :D |
| 13:31.24 | jacekowski | well, that would indicate that it's being charged |
| 13:31.53 | freemangordon | jacekowski: not necessary, there are capacitors all over the place |
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| 13:32.06 | jacekowski | yeah, but rtc is supplied from that battery only |
| 13:32.13 | jacekowski | and it has to see voltage on it to operate |
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| 13:33.16 | freemangordon | no, RTC is supplied from primary or backup depending on voltage, when main battery voltage drops under 3.2 V then backup battery is used |
| 13:33.35 | freemangordon | or was it 2.8 |
| 13:35.31 | freemangordon | anyway, I suspect noone enable backup battery charging, if DocScrutinizer51 says it is hard to use i2ctools, I will write a simple driver to read status/charging/voltage regs |
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| 13:42.08 | jacekowski | The VRRTC line is |
| 13:42.08 | jacekowski | supplied by the VRRTC LDO when VBAT > 2.7 V, and by the VBRTC circuit when in backup mode ( |
| 13:42.45 | jacekowski | but thing is, that's 3.3V battery |
| 13:43.39 | jacekowski | i don't think there are 3.3V rechargeable batteries |
| 13:44.13 | jacekowski | so it may be a primary cell |
| 13:44.24 | jacekowski | that's why it's not charging |
| 13:46.05 | sambo7 | anybody with hw rev 2101/Region Brtitain who can share his CAL/mtd1 with me so that I can check out nandwriting to my device... |
| 13:46.50 | jacekowski | hmmm |
| 13:47.54 | jacekowski | not me |
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| 13:49.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: it's only hard to figure which values to write to which registers |
| 13:51.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: nope, this is a special backup LiIon rechargable cell |
| 13:51.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | with rather weird voltage |
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| 13:57.20 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: I only need to know it backup charging bit is set (i.e. if charging is enabled), to confirm/not bad batteries hypothesis |
| 13:57.37 | freemangordon | but maybe it will be easier for me to write the driver |
| 13:57.49 | freemangordon | i'll try to do it when I'm back home |
| 13:59.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | it should be most easy to search fir register/bit name in mxr |
| 13:59.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | for* |
| 13:59.14 | freemangordon | mxr? |
| 13:59.53 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: I can reuse the code from existing BCI driver, striping the part for charger/main battery/usb |
| 14:00.10 | freemangordon | leaving only support for backup battery |
| 14:00.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | :shrug? |
| 14:00.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | : |
| 14:00.35 | freemangordon | ~mxr |
| 14:00.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | mxr.maemo.org |
| 14:01.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | funny I teach you about kernel source ;-) |
| 14:01.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: I am unable to parse :) |
| 14:03.00 | freemangordon | aah, ok, I think I got it |
| 14:03.49 | DocScrutinzrWrk | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ |
| 14:04.27 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@90-230-114-186-no34.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:04.41 | freemangordon | yeah, yeah. the problem is that BCI driver is platform, not standalone driver, so I think it will be hard to find the exact needed values |
| 14:04.42 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~slau@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 14:04.51 | teotwaki | kerio: http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/08/29/0349226/large-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme-collapses-with-a-loss-of-56-million MWHUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 14:05.38 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: lemme start my SDK, it will be much easier for me |
| 14:05.40 | kerio | teotwaki: it's only on slashdot because that dude used bitcoins instead of dollars |
| 14:06.23 | teotwaki | kerio: dude, is your nickname on slashdot "slim"? |
| 14:07.26 | kerio | no |
| 14:07.48 | kerio | oh, the post with score:4 informative |
| 14:07.49 | kerio | haha |
| 14:08.30 | DocScrutinzrWrk | freemangordon: what's the name of the register you're interetsed in? |
| 14:09.48 | freemangordon | DocScrutinzrWrk: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c#599 |
| 14:10.31 | freemangordon | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c#693 |
| 14:10.47 | freemangordon | one of these should do the job |
| 14:12.23 | DocScrutinzrWrk | meh, that's not what I asked |
| 14:13.44 | freemangordon | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c#81 |
| 14:13.47 | freemangordon | better? |
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| 14:16.53 | freemangordon | DocScrutinzrWrk: leave that, I will write a driver, it should be a piece of cake to reuse that code |
| 14:21.12 | DocScrutinzrWrk | yeah, reuse the bugs in it |
| 14:23.17 | freemangordon | bugs? |
| 14:23.32 | freemangordon | I will read/write 2 registers, what bugs |
| 14:25.17 | DocScrutinzrWrk | nah, it's just obfuscated, but it seems 0x10 should be safe |
| 14:25.54 | DocScrutinzrWrk | enabled, 2.5V, 25uA |
| 14:26.29 | DocScrutinzrWrk | insane to pack all that into one #define named BBCGEN |
| 14:26.50 | DocScrutinzrWrk | BBCHEN actually |
| 14:27.20 | freemangordon | did you read that from the chip, you are just parsing the define? |
| 14:27.35 | DocScrutinzrWrk | parse #define |
| 14:27.37 | DocScrutinzrWrk | mxr |
| 14:27.41 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 14:28.09 | freemangordon | well, i am going home, will try to have something working in 1-2 hours, bbl |
| 14:28.17 | DocScrutinzrWrk | reading from chip might be straight forward, once you know bus and real addr |
| 14:28.32 | freemangordon | yeah, that is why I want to reuse the code |
| 14:28.50 | freemangordon | as it uses twl4030-code |
| 14:28.55 | freemangordon | s/code/core |
| 14:28.57 | DocScrutinzrWrk | meh |
| 14:29.17 | freemangordon | bb |
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| 14:37.53 | DocScrutinzrWrk | the real problem is i2cbus/chip-addr occupied by twl4030 driver |
| 14:38.05 | DocScrutinzrWrk | so no dice with i2cget |
| 14:38.55 | DocScrutinzrWrk | probably should use fsckdup pk47 without that locking |
| 14:39.31 | DocScrutinzrWrk | or was it pk48? |
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| 14:53.08 | DocScrutinzrWrk | uBoot anybody? |
| 14:53.17 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 14:53.51 | DocScrutinzrWrk | nm, aiui *our* uBoot has no console? |
| 14:53.52 | freemangordon | DocScrutinzrWrk: gimme some time, I will do it in proper way |
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| 14:56.10 | DocScrutinzrWrk | freemangordon: prober way: get a sysnode for twl4030".ko", to send chipaddr[0x48..0x4b?]:register tuples in plain text, and read value. Or send chipaddr[0x48..0x4b?]:register = <value>, to write to register |
| 14:56.20 | DocScrutinzrWrk | proper* |
| 14:56.52 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 14:56.54 | DocScrutinzrWrk | idly wonders if such sysnode already exists |
| 14:57.13 | freemangordon | I think pali mentioned something about that, lemme check |
| 14:57.29 | DocScrutinzrWrk | appreciated, no ssh here at work |
| 14:57.34 | DocScrutinzrWrk | :-/ |
| 14:57.42 | freemangordon | or was it for bq charger? |
| 14:57.55 | DocScrutinzrWrk | (pita to do real work on N900 on device shell |
| 14:57.57 | DocScrutinzrWrk | ) |
| 14:58.08 | DocScrutinzrWrk | bq yes |
| 14:58.16 | DocScrutinzrWrk | I suggested it, he did it |
| 14:58.31 | freemangordon | yeah, no joy for twl |
| 14:58.45 | freemangordon | anyway, I am starting to tweak existing BCI driver |
| 14:59.01 | DocScrutinzrWrk | well, if you wanna do something of persistent value, then get same ting for twl |
| 14:59.24 | freemangordon | not now :) |
| 14:59.55 | freemangordon | btw if it turns out that backup battery is not charged, there will be value in what I will do |
| 15:00.20 | DocScrutinzrWrk | sure |
| 15:00.52 | DocScrutinzrWrk | but the right way is to first check value already there (read reg), then *test* writing reg to enable |
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| 15:01.10 | freemangordon | ORLY? :P |
| 15:01.32 | freemangordon | the firs thing to do is to read that value and the voltage and to printk them ;) |
| 15:01.37 | DocScrutinzrWrk | rather copy those few silly lines for sysfs interface, rather than hardcoding the values for that call |
| 15:02.26 | DocScrutinzrWrk | you could as well replace printk by proper sysfs_put |
| 15:03.02 | freemangordon | I will do that for sure if it turns out a backup battery drive is needed |
| 15:03.09 | freemangordon | *driver |
| 15:03.18 | freemangordon | anywa, lets do the job |
| 15:03.22 | DocScrutinzrWrk | meh, it has use for all registers of twl |
| 15:03.55 | DocScrutinzrWrk | btw WHEN do you read? |
| 15:04.21 | freemangordon | in a worker thread |
| 15:04.28 | DocScrutinzrWrk | sigh |
| 15:04.33 | freemangordon | ok, the original driver does |
| 15:04.43 | freemangordon | i'll remove that |
| 15:04.48 | DocScrutinzrWrk | wouldn't you need to start that worker thread by any external event? |
| 15:04.50 | freemangordon | I hate polling more than you |
| 15:05.33 | freemangordon | it is started in twl4030_bci_battery_probe |
| 15:05.51 | freemangordon | and is really needed in case main battery is connected to BCI |
| 15:05.54 | DocScrutinzrWrk | I just mean with sysfs you got a proper *interactive* way to do whatever you want, whenever you want |
| 15:06.00 | freemangordon | I know |
| 15:06.39 | freemangordon | but I won't do that now, a few printks will do the perfect jon initially |
| 15:06.48 | DocScrutinzrWrk | you might end up reading too early, and later on 'somebody else' in kernel sets the bit |
| 15:06.50 | freemangordon | s/jon/job/ |
| 15:07.07 | freemangordon | DocScrutinzrWrk: no way, noone touches BCI |
| 15:07.17 | DocScrutinzrWrk | that's what YOU tell |
| 15:07.21 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 15:08.05 | DocScrutinzrWrk | maybe kernel calls NOLO on every resume from 0-clock and NOLO touches BCI |
| 15:08.14 | freemangordon | could be |
| 15:08.40 | freemangordon | but does not makes sense to enable charging then in the driver |
| 15:09.09 | freemangordon | and AIUI backup battery charger is unaffected of suspend/resume (on HW level) |
| 15:09.19 | freemangordon | you need SW to do it |
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| 15:09.56 | DocScrutinzrWrk | actually read my initial post on the issue. Might happen on $forgot to get reset |
| 15:10.35 | freemangordon | well, let me finish with reading first |
| 15:10.39 | DocScrutinzrWrk | so an initial singulary readout will tell little to nuttin |
| 15:10.52 | freemangordon | will see |
| 15:12.07 | DocScrutinzrWrk | some event regardig state change of TWL FSE been mentioned to reset the BBCHEN |
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| 15:13.29 | DocScrutinzrWrk | bienvenido bugmaster andre__ |
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| 15:14.09 | andre__ | heja! |
| 15:14.17 | DocScrutinzrWrk | andre__: can you still check NB? |
| 15:14.24 | andre__ | DocScrutinizer05, nope |
| 15:14.29 | DocScrutinzrWrk | :-/ |
| 15:14.50 | DocScrutinzrWrk | a pity |
| 15:15.08 | andre__ | out of curiosity, what would you like to know? |
| 15:15.43 | DocScrutinzrWrk | if there's any bug against backup battery known |
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| 15:16.50 | DocScrutinzrWrk | buzzword "realtime clock reset" |
| 15:17.03 | andre__ | oh, okay. no idea then |
| 15:17.16 | *** join/#maemo Spark25x (~spark@unaffiliated/spark25x) |
| 15:17.24 | DocScrutinzrWrk | or rather "cmos clock" |
| 15:17.26 | andre__ | I asked because I might still have bugmail backups somewhere, but if there's no corresponding ticket in bugs.maemo.org that's unlikely |
| 15:17.31 | Spark25x | hey guys |
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| 15:18.22 | DocScrutinzrWrk | hmm, I dunno if there's a ticket against it inbmo |
| 15:18.26 | Spark25x | i installed nitroid,and run it but it hangs at making ext3 partition step..its this the normal behaviour? |
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| 15:22.35 | sambo7 | first nanddumping a CAL and then restoring the CAL with nandwrite is the way to go,isn't it?...so first I need to get a CAL from somebody with hw rev 2101/region Britain...will post in the maemo-forum |
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| 15:23.32 | jacekowski | sambo7: not really |
| 15:23.39 | jacekowski | sambo7: you can probably use any n900 |
| 15:23.49 | jacekowski | sambo7: differences won't be major |
| 15:25.06 | sambo7 | so could some of you send me a backup of his cal? |
| 15:25.50 | kerio | nobody would, really |
| 15:25.53 | kerio | CAL holds the imei |
| 15:26.03 | kerio | i think |
| 15:26.04 | jacekowski | sambo7: *#06# |
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| 15:26.06 | freemangordon | mac addresses too |
| 15:26.08 | kerio | sambo7: you said that phone works, right? |
| 15:26.10 | jacekowski | sambo7: does it show your imei |
| 15:26.11 | kerio | try what jacekowski said |
| 15:26.24 | jacekowski | it looks like it's just a copy of imei |
| 15:26.26 | sambo7 | my imei works |
| 15:26.36 | kerio | neat |
| 15:26.59 | kerio | i wonder if it's possible to *take* that part of CAL from rapuyama |
| 15:27.18 | sambo7 | but I can't install various packages because they seem to check hw-rev which doesn't exist on my device |
| 15:27.33 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (~udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:27.34 | kerio | sambo7: grab DocScrutinizer's CAL |
| 15:28.14 | jacekowski | it's kinda weird |
| 15:28.21 | jacekowski | because you have stuff in cal that stuff relies on |
| 15:28.29 | jacekowski | yet everything is in other places of the phone |
| 15:28.34 | jacekowski | where it's stored in much safer way |
| 15:28.50 | kerio | so... "fukken nokia", as usual? |
| 15:28.51 | jacekowski | i'm just wondering if "reformating" cal would make something rewrite it all |
| 15:29.07 | kerio | sambo7: what does osso-product-info say? |
| 15:29.14 | jacekowski | because cal is all messed up, so anything using libcal will fail |
| 15:29.28 | jacekowski | but if you were to just create basic valid cal structures |
| 15:29.55 | kerio | jacekowski: where are wlan and bt mac addresses stored? |
| 15:30.04 | kerio | apart from CAL and the box the n900 came in? |
| 15:30.06 | sambo7 | for example if I connect remotely via ssh it works but I get a CAL error |
| 15:30.13 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@193.144.61.240) |
| 15:30.24 | jacekowski | kerio: it looks like in wlan module |
| 15:30.28 | DocScrutinzrWrk | sambo7: I get slightly tired of you ignoring my dozens of pomnters to my cal image on mameo.cloud-7.de |
| 15:30.30 | jacekowski | sambo7: you have wlan mac? |
| 15:30.32 | kerio | haha |
| 15:30.50 | kerio | sambo7: type "ifconfig" and check if wlan0's hwaddr matches the one on your box |
| 15:31.07 | jacekowski | kerio: iirc he said it does |
| 15:31.14 | kerio | then wtf |
| 15:31.19 | kerio | WHY DOES CAL EXIST |
| 15:31.21 | sambo7 | @DocScrutinzrWrk> sorry for that- will check that one out |
| 15:31.41 | jacekowski | kerio: i've had a look at this shit, some time ago, and it kinda looked like there are two types of cal |
| 15:31.46 | kerio | sambo7: btw, you can just type the first letters of the nick and then press tab :) |
| 15:31.48 | jacekowski | kerio: the one he mtdtested |
| 15:31.56 | jacekowski | kerio: and something else accessed by nolo |
| 15:32.18 | jacekowski | kerio: because it was looking for stuff that i've never seen in normal cal |
| 15:32.43 | jacekowski | but now i don't have n900 so it's kinda hard to test stuff |
| 15:32.46 | *** part/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@193.144.61.240) |
| 15:33.40 | sambo7 | osso-product-info gives me a lot of errors...just hardware,name & full name is shown |
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| 15:35.07 | sambo7 | don't have a box for the N900...got it on ebay |
| 15:35.16 | kerio | D: |
| 15:35.24 | kerio | hm, how can you recover your bt mac address then? |
| 15:36.05 | sambo7 | Imei & wifi-mac is ok & also shown in product info |
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| 15:36.30 | sambo7 | how can I try to recover bt mac? |
| 15:36.36 | jacekowski | use random one |
| 15:36.41 | jacekowski | nobody gives a fuck about those |
| 15:37.02 | DocScrutinzrWrk | freemangordon: BBISEL=0b00 = 25uA is insanely low. Better should be 01, 10, or even 11 |
| 15:37.05 | kerio | haha |
| 15:37.24 | kerio | sambo7: technically it should be in every paired device |
| 15:37.37 | kerio | but yeah, nobody gives a shit about bt mac addresses |
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| 15:39.39 | jacekowski | DocScrutinzrWrk: well, it only has to make it hold charge |
| 15:39.45 | sambo7 | what is the vendor part of the bt mac for the N900?at least this should match,shouldn't it? |
| 15:40.00 | kerio | sambo7: nah, nobody cares about that :) |
| 15:40.01 | jacekowski | sambo7: bt and wlan are on same module i believe |
| 15:40.05 | jacekowski | or it was bt and fmtx |
| 15:40.16 | kerio | bt and fmrx |
| 15:40.26 | kerio | bt and wlan use the same antenna |
| 15:42.41 | sambo7 | when I'm back home from sports, I will try to import Doc's CAL... |
| 15:43.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: nope |
| 15:44.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | it has to *charge* it |
| 15:46.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | and actually 25uA might be too little to even keep charge |
| 15:47.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | so probably that's already the bug, if there's any |
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| 15:53.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'd guess NOLO sets BBCFG register. That would explain why kernel doesn't touch it |
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| 16:08.14 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: yep, seems so, BBCFG == 0x1c and VBBAT ~= 3126 mV. |
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| 16:11.36 | DocScrutinzrWrk | freemangordon: 0x1c is BAD(TM) |
| 16:12.06 | freemangordon | sorry, it is 1b |
| 16:12.10 | freemangordon | my bad |
| 16:12.40 | DocScrutinzrWrk | aaah |
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| 16:14.17 | DocScrutinzrWrk | so 1011, BBISEL=11=1mA |
| 16:16.32 | DocScrutinzrWrk | no real problem with all that then :-) |
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| 16:19.19 | freemangordon | DocScrutinzrWrk: :nod: |
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| 16:24.51 | DocScrutinzrWrk | LOL WTF?! http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c#883 |
| 16:28.22 | kerio | DocScrutinzrWrk: i don't get it |
| 16:28.23 | kerio | :s |
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| 16:30.14 | DocScrutinzrWrk | kerio: realy *clever* calculation of battery capacity "percentage" from voltage ranges |
| 16:30.22 | kerio | hahaha |
| 16:30.27 | ShadowJK | those thresholds look very bme-ish :) |
| 16:30.28 | kerio | tdwtf-worthy? |
| 16:30.40 | DocScrutinzrWrk | kinda |
| 16:30.57 | DocScrutinzrWrk | luckily it's not used (bme probably does worse though) |
| 16:31.06 | ShadowJK | as in using 4 significant digits for voltage when doing some rough approximations |
| 16:31.35 | DocScrutinzrWrk | and those funny steps in percentage ;-P |
| 16:31.37 | kerio | oh wow |
| 16:31.59 | DocScrutinzrWrk | 2, 20, 50, 75, 90 |
| 16:32.06 | DocScrutinzrWrk | err 5 |
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| 16:33.12 | ShadowJK | it's a reasonable strategy when there's no fuel gauging available |
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| 16:35.23 | DocScrutinzrWrk | actually makes me puke: else if ((di->voltage_uV < 3451 && di->voltage_uV > 2894) ------ better like that: else if ((2894 < di->voltage_uV && di->voltage_uV < 3451) |
| 16:36.11 | kerio | that's why python is awesome :D |
| 16:36.32 | DocScrutinzrWrk | what that got to do with python? |
| 16:36.33 | kerio | elif 2894 < di.voltage_uV < 3451: |
| 16:36.38 | DocScrutinzrWrk | aaah |
| 16:36.40 | DocScrutinzrWrk | yep |
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| 16:44.21 | DocScrutinzrWrk | who's been worrying about complexity and coefficients for thermistor normalization? look --> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-3430sdp.c#311 |
| 16:44.52 | DocScrutinzrWrk | no 5th order polynomial |
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| 16:55.25 | DocScrutinzrWrk | freemangordon: ^^^^ |
| 16:56.09 | kerio | so... why isn't that driver in the actual kernel? |
| 16:56.38 | DocScrutinzrWrk | because we don't need to touch that stuff from kernel, NOLO deals with it |
| 16:56.46 | kerio | i see |
| 16:57.09 | DocScrutinzrWrk | arguable rationale, but MEH |
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| 17:05.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | resp BME |
| 17:07.47 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@94.45.182.105) |
| 17:08.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually NOLO deals with bupbat charging, BME with amin bat management. It seems Nokia has a panic regarding community touching *anything* battery related |
| 17:08.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | mooo GeneralAntilles |
| 17:08.50 | GeneralAntilles | Hey-oh |
| 17:09.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | never again tell me work is useless! we checked bupbat situation today, since I'm bored to death on my last 16h at this job |
| 17:10.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | ;-D |
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| 17:13.55 | DocScrutinzrWrk | hey, I could try to find a 500uF tantalum capacitor here :-D |
| 17:14.50 | DocScrutinzrWrk | ...or better not. Feels strange to lift things when you leave... |
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| 17:20.30 | kerio | DocScrutinzrWrk: to be fair, batteries are srs bsns |
| 17:23.52 | freemangordon | DocScrutinzrWrk: is it the same sensor? |
| 17:24.00 | freemangordon | the thermistor that is ;) |
| 17:24.11 | ShadowJK | is more srs than bme |
| 17:25.07 | kerio | no one is more srs than bme |
| 17:25.28 | kerio | http://wiki.bme.com/ <- incredibly srs |
| 17:32.07 | DocScrutinzrWrk | freemangordon: same type anyway |
| 17:32.43 | DocScrutinzrWrk | there are only 2 possible thermistors: the BSI one which actually isn't a thermistor usually, and the real battery temp sensor |
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| 17:36.18 | DocScrutinzrWrk | bupbat |
| 17:36.25 | DocScrutinzrWrk | ~bupbat |
| 17:36.25 | infobot | rumour has it, bupbat is http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months |
| 17:40.32 | DocScrutinzrWrk | MMPFFFFFFF! 3kF capacitor |
| 17:41.21 | DocScrutinzrWrk | http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/451449/Samwha-Green-Cap-Kondensatoren-DE0E308M64120SB-25-VDC-3000-F-Rastermass-286-mm/0245960&ref=list |
| 17:42.58 | DocScrutinzrWrk | 5kF dafaq |
| 17:43.18 | DocScrutinzrWrk | only 600EUR |
| 17:44.41 | DocScrutinzrWrk | o/ |
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| 18:20.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | not entirely insane for a 10000Ws 'battery' with infinite cycle endurance |
| 18:20.21 | kerio | a what |
| 18:20.31 | kerio | also, it's not really infinite, is it |
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| 18:22.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | well it for sure dances on grave of 20 or more BL-5J |
| 18:22.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | a lot more |
| 18:22.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | from that POV it's cheap |
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| 18:27.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | 5000As/V * (2.5V - 1.5V) * ((2.5V + 1.5V)/2) =10000Ws =~2.5Wh |
| 18:31.21 | kerio | hm |
| 18:31.54 | kerio | how many BL-5Js would that be? |
| 18:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | around one |
| 18:32.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | more liek 0.5 |
| 18:33.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | allegedly has 4.9Wh (says print) |
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| 18:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | but this capacitor charges in minutes, not hours |
| 18:33.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 18:33.52 | vi__ | onboard battery swap? |
| 18:34.01 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: not with the usb wallcharger |
| 18:34.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: rrrrrright |
| 18:34.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 18:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: that's where I came from |
| 18:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | looked for a supercap with 5mm diameter |
| 18:35.14 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no... that would be your mother! (cit.) |
| 18:35.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 18:35.45 | vi__ | you can get a 5.5v 1F from ebay. |
| 18:35.50 | kerio | (re: "that's where i came from") |
| 18:35.53 | vi__ | really small. |
| 18:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5mm? |
| 18:36.33 | vi__ | dunno. |
| 18:36.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2mm high |
| 18:36.41 | vi__ | 5mm is quite small. |
| 18:38.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.yuden.co.jp/ut/product/category/energydevice/PAS414HR-VA5R.pdf |
| 18:41.01 | vi__ | why is it I feel bad about hitting a squirrel with my car but not so much when an unemployed welfare scrounger gets hit by a bus? |
| 18:41.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | because it's not been you who hit it |
| 18:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | him |
| 18:41.50 | kerio | because you've been brainwashed by your media into thinking that "welfare scroungers" are evil? |
| 18:42.02 | vi__ | they are. |
| 18:42.34 | vi__ | I pay a fuckton of tax so they can do nothing. |
| 18:42.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, *I* am evil! |
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| 18:45.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, they aren't allowed to work - not to mention some good job that's maybe even fun - and they can do nothing about it |
| 18:46.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it's been so long they even forgot how to do some fun work, even if they could find some now |
| 18:48.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm so evil I do things for free, like e.g moderating this IRC chan - sth somebody should pay for definitely |
| 18:52.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe you would like to pay me for stopping this moderation task? ;-P |
| 18:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet there are some users who think |
| 18:53.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | *I* should pay for that |
| 18:54.01 | kerio | i'll pay negative dollars for you to keep moderating this channel |
| 18:54.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't that exactly what I just said? XP |
| 18:54.39 | kerio | no, no, *i* will pay those |
| 18:54.51 | kerio | that is, i'll be given money |
| 18:54.53 | kerio | but just me |
| 18:54.56 | kerio | not the whole channel |
| 18:54.58 | kerio | and not necessarily from you |
| 19:03.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I'm probably going to order 20 PAS414-VA5R |
| 19:03.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | might send them out in qty:1 to those interested |
| 19:04.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ^^^ |
| 19:04.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: ^^^ |
| 19:04.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | who else? |
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| 19:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | unit price incl packaging: 3EUR, +shipping (in europe 55ct afaik, standard letter) |
| 19:09.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, in Europe free shipping :-) |
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| 19:12.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | free shipping worldwide (standard letter) \o/ |
| 19:17.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: swap bupbat? |
| 19:17.50 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: which bupbat is this? |
| 19:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | the internal battery |
| 19:18.09 | kerio | is this replacement a good one? |
| 19:18.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, it's capacitive |
| 19:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | good for an hour without main battery (minimum) and I hope for several decades rather than 12 months |
| 19:18.59 | kerio | :D |
| 19:19.21 | kerio | well, the bupbat in this n900 is still fine |
| 19:19.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're a really lucky man |
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| 19:19.56 | kerio | i bought it barely used three months ago |
| 19:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | odds are like 15 to 1 |
| 19:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | against such luck |
| 19:20.19 | kerio | it's a 2104 |
| 19:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmmmm |
| 19:20.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | interesting! |
| 19:20.35 | kerio | maybe they chose better batteries? |
| 19:20.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 19:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible |
| 19:20.45 | kerio | =D |
| 19:20.52 | kerio | and maybe they put better usb ports? |
| 19:20.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | or simply later build |
| 19:20.58 | kerio | with better soldering? |
| 19:21.05 | kerio | :c |
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| 19:21.21 | kerio | hm, i wonder if there's a way to know *when* it's been manufactured |
| 19:21.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but suspicions are the soldering kills those LiIon bupbat |
| 19:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | errrr, probably not |
| 19:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless there's maybe some datecode on a sticker |
| 19:23.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing obvious |
| 19:23.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 19:23.29 | kerio | wait, soldering kills bupbats? :o |
| 19:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | might |
| 19:24.22 | kerio | why? |
| 19:24.23 | kerio | the heat? |
| 19:24.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | wrong reflow profile |
| 19:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 19:26.34 | kerio | isn't the usb port far from the bupbat? |
| 19:26.44 | kerio | wait, which soldering are we talking about? |
| 19:27.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | any soldering to bupbat |
| 19:27.22 | kerio | oic |
| 19:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | so basically: manufacturing |
| 19:28.44 | kerio | why haven't they used a capacitor? |
| 19:28.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | we had issues with bupbat dead in fab tests, when our reflow profile was slightly "detuned", at OM |
| 19:29.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, seems those LiIon bupbat were the state of the art 4 years ago |
| 19:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and has - like - 10 times to 500 times the capacity of the capacitive types with same form factor |
| 19:30.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | only as long as it lasts though ;-p |
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| 19:47.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I did a small mistake regarding power consumption in backup mode: it's only 2.25uA, not 20 |
| 19:48.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the backup time with a normal BP-5J was ~70 years, not 7.5 years like I thought |
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| 19:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and a PAS414-VA5R is good for at least 10h without main bat, not 1h |
| 19:51.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4.4 Power Consumption Table 4-22. Power Consumption |
| 19:51.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | in http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/swcs032e/swcs032e.pdf |
| 19:54.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway if you want a spare new backup battery, send 3EUR to my paypal (see my siganture on tmo), with your full addr in comment, newlines marked a \n |
| 19:54.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you want more than one, send multiples of 3EUR |
| 19:55.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | shipping is via international standard letter |
| 19:55.52 | SpeedEvil | hmm. is 70y life for my n900 enough, or do I hope medicine will advance enough for me to need 140... |
| 19:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | 70 years? would you swap the bupbat for a BL-5J? ;-D |
| 19:56.53 | SpeedEvil | oh . misread |
| 20:04.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe PLEASE WAIT with paypal money transfer until I actually managed to get that order done with farnell |
| 20:06.29 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, I will order by myself when I decide to change mine. So far there is no need, as I remove battery once in a 3 or so months. KP after all :P |
| 20:08.01 | freemangordon | My company buys things from farnell every day, I won;t have any problem to order a capacitor |
| 20:08.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | does Farnell better conditions regarding shipping cost etc, for you? |
| 20:08.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh |
| 20:08.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | so may you can get one for me then? |
| 20:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | or 5 rather |
| 20:08.54 | freemangordon | well, I can ask my coleagues tomorrow |
| 20:09.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/kondensator-0-06f-3-3v-staked-coin/dp/2112777?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R |
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| 20:11.04 | freemangordon | ok, what about shipping? |
| 20:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R should work |
| 20:14.13 | freemangordon | BTW are you sure those will fit? |
| 20:14.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | shipping: like 5* 1g, tape them on a carton and place that carton in a standard envelope |
| 20:14.34 | freemangordon | ok |
| 20:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | (fit) rather |
| 20:14.43 | freemangordon | wtf? "Our websites are currently unavailable whilst we perform a scheduled system upgrade. " |
| 20:14.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, same here |
| 20:15.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | worked 30min ago |
| 20:19.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I found my farnel account credentials |
| 20:20.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | so if you don't like the hassle getting those and sending them to me, no problem |
| 20:20.35 | freemangordon | ok, anyway i will check tomoeeow |
| 20:20.40 | freemangordon | *tomorrow |
| 20:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I' d appreciate much to join the boat of your shipping costs |
| 20:20.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | farnell takes like 10EUR here |
| 20:21.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm not even sure the account is still active |
| 20:21.55 | freemangordon | well, I suspect there will be no shipping cost, as it will be a part of my company order |
| 20:22.07 | freemangordon | on the other hand, 10 eur is not that much |
| 20:22.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what i meant :-) |
| 20:22.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sure. |
| 20:23.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it sucks by principle to order 20 components a 75ct each, and see a bill ~30EUR |
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| 20:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | otoh they wouldn't earn a donut if they'd do it any other way |
| 20:24.33 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 20:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so rather pay 75ct per component plus VAT plus 10EUr shipping, than pay 2.80EUR per component and 2EUR shipping |
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| 20:34.57 | vi__ | who was a CA runner up? |
| 20:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? |
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| 20:48.12 | freemangordon | the fuck, my cpu cooler had about 1 mm of dust on it, no wonder I had 3-4 unexpected reboots a day for the last week :D |
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| 20:58.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: (does it fit?) I seem to remember I even compared footprint of bare PCB with the dimensions from datasheet |
| 20:58.21 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05; not really interested in bupbatt, I need its services about once a year or more less :P |
| 20:58.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 20:59.01 | ShadowJK | "more less", I think I fail |
| 20:59.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm nasically interested in fixing a bug |
| 20:59.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | basically* |
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| 21:02.23 | ShadowJK | is researching how to make cider |
| 21:02.23 | ShadowJK | will/might be getting lots of free apple |
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| 21:37.09 | freemangordon | javispedro: ping |
| 21:37.29 | javispedro | pong |
| 21:37.53 | javispedro | freemangordon^^ |
| 21:38.08 | freemangordon | javispedro: would you elaborate on "freemangordon WTF?", What problem did you see with VKB RE and LGPL? |
| 21:38.43 | javispedro | freemangordon: it smells "decompile" from a mile |
| 21:39.22 | ludens | how do i install mpd in maemo? |
| 21:39.51 | freemangordon | javispedro: Sure, but what is the exact problem. I never denied it is a RE work |
| 21:40.28 | javispedro | freemangordon: you cannot then say it is GPL |
| 21:40.29 | freemangordon | I checked licensing of the packages in question, there are no copyright |
| 21:40.39 | freemangordon | copyrighted |
| 21:40.48 | javispedro | lack of license != no copyright |
| 21:41.00 | javispedro | actually, lack of license text on most countries is == strongest copyright |
| 21:41.01 | freemangordon | checked EULA too (SDK one) |
| 21:41.22 | javispedro | (double negative dammit!) |
| 21:42.04 | javispedro | freemangordon: and where in the SDK EULA does it say you can freely relicense to GPL ? |
| 21:42.07 | freemangordon | javispedro: ok, what license should I put in source files and deb? |
| 21:42.39 | freemangordon | javispedro: according to EULA, those files are not Nikia (C) (original debs I mean) |
| 21:42.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | please consider what I suggested |
| 21:42.45 | freemangordon | *Nokia |
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| 21:43.21 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: sure, I jsu want an advice from javispedro, as he was the one to point there is something wrong |
| 21:43.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | and my comment was to him |
| 21:43.52 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 21:44.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: we got qgil 'licence' to redistribute (c)blobs |
| 21:45.02 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: _freely_? |
| 21:45.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | so a passage 'all decompiled sections in this file are from maemo <file> and (c) Nokia' |
| 21:45.30 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: can you share some specifics on that? |
| 21:46.21 | freemangordon | BTW: "The Software copyrighted by Nokia or some third parties is licensed to you |
| 21:46.23 | freemangordon | under the Nokia End-User License Agreement [see below] and distributed to |
| 21:46.25 | freemangordon | you only in binary form. |
| 21:46.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | in my book it doesn't matter if original complete binary, parts, or even disassembled parts. As long as we keep original (c) |
| 21:46.47 | freemangordon | but there is no (C) |
| 21:46.55 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: dissembled parts might be considered derivative works |
| 21:47.00 | javispedro | *disas'd |
| 21:47.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, derivative works not worse than unaltered original |
| 21:47.59 | javispedro | but I'm curious on the specifics of the CSSU redistribution "exemptions" |
| 21:48.20 | javispedro | did qgil really give you permission to redistribute all binary blobs to anyone ? O.o |
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| 21:48.27 | freemangordon | javispedro: there is qgil's post on TMO, lemme try to find it |
| 21:48.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | qgil said 'don't worry' :-D |
| 21:48.37 | javispedro | meh |
| 21:49.17 | freemangordon | here is SDK eula http://pastebin.com/wKZ2N77y |
| 21:49.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | doesn't matter |
| 21:49.40 | javispedro | you should know that standard practice on a OSS project to members who have read disassembles of proprietary software is to disavow everyone even remotely involved... |
| 21:50.08 | javispedro | I know about Nokia's "don't worry" thing, but still, the code is tainted and should be clearly marked as such |
| 21:50.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | see above suggestion |
| 21:51.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | *no* GPL, keep (c)Nokia |
| 21:51.35 | javispedro | I have to concur with DocScrutinizer51 *if* qgil really gave such generous permissions. |
| 21:51.56 | javispedro | but, IANAL. |
| 21:52.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | even state 'you may use this file and info in it only if you own a N900 and accepted Nokia's eula' |
| 21:52.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: how am I supposed to put (C) Nokia, when the originals are not (C) Nokia. Isn't that worse? |
| 21:52.26 | javispedro | freemangordon: why do you say they are not (C) Nokia? |
| 21:52.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | everything maemo kis (c) Nokia |
| 21:53.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | if not explicitly then by general law |
| 21:53.14 | javispedro | "excluding Open Source Software" as said on the EULA |
| 21:53.26 | freemangordon | because there is no copyright file coming with the debs. BTW, lemme check something, I might be wrong |
| 21:54.00 | javispedro | freemangordon: read about "automatic copyright" |
| 21:54.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: generally you don't need the '(C)' to claim copyright. There are laws for that |
| 21:54.51 | freemangordon | "(c) 2007 Nokia Corporation. All rights reserved" |
| 21:55.01 | freemangordon | well, I'll change the licens |
| 21:55.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | everything without explicit licence is under general legislation |
| 21:56.36 | freemangordon | My point was, that eula splits things in two - those (C) by nokia, and the others. But as (C) is explicitly stated in the binary, i'll change the header |
| 21:57.34 | javispedro | but it doesn't matter |
| 21:57.47 | javispedro | generally you have to assume no (C) => Nokia's. |
| 21:58.08 | freemangordon | ok |
| 21:58.28 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. Copyright doesn't work on the basis 'no explicit licence -> public domain' |
| 21:58.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | au contraire |
| 21:58.50 | SpeedEvil | You do not have to explicitly claim copyright for it to exist. |
| 21:58.59 | javispedro | this is my automatic copyright remark above |
| 21:59.00 | freemangordon | ok, ok , got it :) |
| 21:59.11 | javispedro | some countries may not do this =) |
| 21:59.18 | SpeedEvil | ah - right - nvm |
| 21:59.30 | SpeedEvil | I should read bbackscorll |
| 21:59.53 | freemangordon | well, the local law here allows me to do whatever I want with a SW I have the right to use ;) |
| 22:00.06 | SpeedEvil | But I was busy reading 'the interpretation act 1978'. |
| 22:00.16 | SpeedEvil | Which is as boring as you might expect. |
| 22:00.42 | freemangordon | including RE and such, if that is needed to fit the purpose |
| 22:01.03 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: I'm reinstalling winbugs on someone else's laptop, which is certainly more boring |
| 22:01.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | except publish |
| 22:01.26 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 22:01.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: |
| 22:02.01 | freemangordon | anyway, i'll put some (C) Nokia instead of LGPL |
| 22:02.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | but this together with qgil permission to redistribute makes it safe to publish disassembly as long as we clearly state what it is and that Nokia owns it |
| 22:03.19 | freemangordon | yep. And I can bet noone in Nokia really cares |
| 22:03.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | definitely |
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| 22:03.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | but nerds in foss community will |
| 22:04.08 | SpeedEvil | The ability to distribute does not mean that you can redistribute derivitive works (which is what a dissasembly is) |
| 22:04.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | and those are worse |
| 22:04.40 | SpeedEvil | Though an automatic derivitive work does not have its own copyright in the us, and may in the Eu, for example. |
| 22:04.49 | SpeedEvil | sigh. |
| 22:05.27 | SpeedEvil | is pretending to be a lawyer at the moment, and not enjoying it. |
| 22:12.07 | freemangordon | is going to have some sleep |
| 22:12.43 | freemangordon | night, tomorrow will ask again if there is some progress (besides (C) thing) |
| 22:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: nobody else will do that as you noticed already it's no fun. So our stuff just has to look like we care and had some competent advice. freemangordon already correctly assumed nobody at Nokia ever will care |
| 22:13.34 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 22:13.51 | SpeedEvil | The person that would care almost certainly got fired a year ago |
| 22:14.03 | SpeedEvil | maybe two. |
| 22:14.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ?? |
| 22:15.08 | javispedro | I'd take care specially since they might very soon convert into a company entirely staffed by lawyers |
| 22:15.13 | SpeedEvil | Supposition. |
| 22:15.45 | javispedro | so, on to more useful things |
| 22:16.00 | javispedro | do you know about some daemon that monitors a certain folder (using inotify, fanotify, whatever) and launches rsync as appropiate? |
| 22:16.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: I think qgil's 'licence' will give them more heafdache than all disassembled code in fmg's work |
| 22:16.08 | SpeedEvil | Sorry for the distraction. |
| 22:16.30 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: Well - I had my system just running rsync every hour at one point. Worked OK |
| 22:16.50 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: between phone and server media dir |
| 22:16.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: inotify-monitor |
| 22:17.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually: inotifywait inotifywatch |
| 22:18.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty convenient cmdline tools |
| 22:18.24 | javispedro | just thinking that I could point it to my DCIM folder, add some wlan connectivity detection, and call it freeCloud |
| 22:18.28 | javispedro | ;P |
| 22:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf fanotify? |
| 22:19.19 | javispedro | some new crap kernel gurus came with |
| 22:19.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | *BURP* |
| 22:19.54 | javispedro | it was attached to the phrase "on-access antivirus scanner" so I'm not enabling it on my systems just in case =) |
| 22:20.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, maybe a fs-global inotify? |
| 22:20.34 | javispedro | yeah, certainly |
| 22:20.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka ld-preload alike hook into fopen() |
| 22:21.18 | javispedro | (funnily, didn't notify about renames and unlinks...) |
| 22:21.22 | javispedro | *it didn't |
| 22:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeeek |
| 22:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | morons |
| 22:22.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves and searches for the wooden hammer |
| 22:22.22 | javispedro | well, i do think it'll work for the antivirus usecase. |
| 22:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | n8 |
| 22:23.00 | ludens | how do i install mpd in maemo? |
| 22:23.41 | javispedro | nite DocScrutinizer05 |
| 22:23.53 | javispedro | ludens: well, search for it in the repos and apt-get it, like Debian... |
| 22:24.18 | ludens | yeah it cant be found in the gui app manager |
| 22:24.31 | javispedro | so I suppose no one ported it |
| 22:24.41 | ludens | and aptitude cant find a candidate version |
| 22:24.42 | javispedro | probable more common usecase is running mpd on the desktop ;P |
| 22:24.50 | ludens | sure |
| 22:24.56 | ludens | but i know people use it |
| 22:25.04 | ludens | ive seen mentions of it on the web |
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| 22:31.01 | ludens | ah its not available |
| 22:31.07 | ludens | :/ |
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| 23:17.44 | Estel_ | merlin1991, ping |
| 23:18.24 | Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1256131&postcount=287 |
| 23:18.43 | Estel_ | valid argument - busybox replacement is by any means *not* possible outside CSSU, at least "proper" way |
| 23:19.04 | Estel_ | = as good we could replace everything that cssu replaces by binary replacements (wrong, wrong!) |
| 23:19.21 | Estel_ | copnsidering this, + all benefits of upstream bugfixes + busybox-power, logical question: |
| 23:19.32 | Estel_ | when the fuck we wil lend this comedy and busybox-power will be included into CSSU? |
| 23:19.52 | Estel_ | hell, this package originates from times when CSSU wasn't even in plans |
| 23:20.52 | Estel_ | one of most thoroguhly tested, maintained continously by same person over YEARS project, that can be shipped properly only by CSSU way (current version i nextras does trick with binary replacemenent), and it's still outside CSSU due to political, idiotic pseudo-reasons |
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| 23:21.06 | Estel_ | ...while we're adding things like portrait support to busybix in CSSU |
| 23:21.10 | Estel_ | what the hell, I ask? |
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| 23:22.14 | Estel_ | maybe we should start discussion in community mailing list and/or TMO, if CSSU team need more "motivation"? It's really unexplainable, why busybox-power is kept out of CSSU. |
| 23:23.58 | Estel_ | +spank DocScrutinizer05 for using argument about "easily installable from extras" - binary replacement trick is*not* proper way, as said, we could ship whole CSSU using such method, but it would be *wrong*, wrong, and wrong even more. There is no other alternative for busybox-power (aka, again *fuckin upstream* fixes) to be provided for Maemo, it's either *proper* way of CSSu, or hackish tricky failprone binary replacement. |
| 23:24.45 | Estel_ | merlin1991 ^^^ - rant over. If I ever hear again political arguments against busybox-power, I swear, people are gonna die. |
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