| 00:05.10 | *** join/#maemo APTX (~APTX@unaffiliated/aptx) |
| 00:08.42 | Estel_ | wasn't it easier to ping me here?:P |
| 00:08.49 | *** join/#maemo tehdely (whereu@str8.chir.pn) |
| 00:08.49 | MohammadAG | SoC |
| 00:08.53 | Estel_ | ^^^ |
| 00:08.58 | MohammadAG | It's soldered on the CPU |
| 00:09.02 | Estel_ | oneNAND |
| 00:09.04 | HtheB | Estel_, yeah :p figured that out later haha |
| 00:09.11 | HtheB | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg |
| 00:09.12 | Estel_ | so, next question, as I( suppose, where CPu is located?:) |
| 00:09.18 | MohammadAG | No |
| 00:09.27 | MohammadAG | Next question is can we replace ram |
| 00:09.31 | MohammadAG | To that I say no |
| 00:09.38 | Estel_ | HtheB have access to $$$ tools |
| 00:09.44 | Estel_ | for soldering such things |
| 00:09.48 | MohammadAG | It's like an asymptote |
| 00:09.59 | MohammadAG | It never reaches no, but it gets close |
| 00:10.04 | Estel_ | so can we move from "no, we can't" - that we already heard and acknowledged - to, "if we could, what we would exactly need to do" ;0 |
| 00:10.35 | MohammadAG | Sacrifice ten N900s |
| 00:10.55 | Estel_ | for example, on picture HtheB provided, which one is OneNAND? is it topmost, and CPu under?:) |
| 00:11.24 | *** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org) |
| 00:11.50 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, I know people who would sacrifice kindley, not only ten N900, to get N950 - and N900 with 1Gb of rAM would be *much* more useful than N950 |
| 00:12.02 | Estel_ | not to mention very rare |
| 00:12.23 | Estel_ | not to mention easily sold for 200k dollars for collectors, in 15 years time :P |
| 00:12.37 | Estel_ | so again, lets go to "how, theoretically, we should do it" ;) |
| 00:12.50 | Estel_ | HtheB, agaik, shadowJk went most far, when it comes to theoretizing about it |
| 00:12.56 | Estel_ | long time ago, he even told me names of components |
| 00:13.19 | Estel_ | (noting, that 512 RAm and 1GB ram version of exactly same oneNAND exist,. but are hard to get) |
| 00:13.21 | MohammadAG | Could be wrong but I think it's next to sim |
| 00:13.30 | MohammadAG | Well under vibra in pic |
| 00:13.32 | Estel_ | unfortunately, i don't remember it, of course, and huaven't noted, due to theoretical impossibility of doing so |
| 00:13.50 | HtheB | damn it |
| 00:13.57 | Estel_ | HtheB, I pinged ShadowJk about Your thread (explaining that You have access to infra red PCB soldering station), but he haven't answered yet |
| 00:13.58 | HtheB | what about guys like stkeys? |
| 00:14.01 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05 could help |
| 00:14.10 | MohammadAG | Anyway, afaik this was discussed multiple times |
| 00:14.11 | Estel_ | yea, DocScrutinizer05 for sure know which one is that |
| 00:14.39 | MohammadAG | And we always got to the part "it can't be done" |
| 00:14.44 | Estel_ | well, i knew it just 2 months ago, when I was talking about possibility of mounting radiator on SoC, connected to metallic body... |
| 00:15.01 | Estel_ | it seems that when idea is rejected, my brain just deletes info, as I can't reclal it now |
| 00:15.03 | Estel_ | recall* |
| 00:15.16 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, sure, but it was always due to lack of tools |
| 00:15.20 | MohammadAG | You mean a heatsink? |
| 00:15.24 | Estel_ | and low chance of sucess with less expensive tools |
| 00:15.28 | MohammadAG | No, lack of ability afaik |
| 00:15.44 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, basically I though about removing heat shield and shaping aprt of custom body replacement, to act like radiator |
| 00:15.48 | Estel_ | with thermal paste etc |
| 00:16.00 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, lack of ability, due to lack of tools or high cost of obtaining them |
| 00:16.25 | Estel_ | tools of similar price range, that are used to replace broken graphic cards on notebooks, would make it much more easy |
| 00:16.32 | Estel_ | not too easy, but possible |
| 00:16.42 | Estel_ | I'm not holding my breath, but definitelly keeping thumbs for HtheB attempts |
| 00:17.13 | HtheB | tnx |
| 00:17.16 | Estel_ | (and for heatsink thing, it concluded, that thermal conductivity of OneNAND is quite too low to make it feasible, and it's better to put heatsink to ground place) |
| 00:17.19 | ZogG_laptop | radio transmitter on n950? |
| 00:17.32 | Estel_ | no, 1GB RAM on n900 :) read backscroll |
| 00:17.40 | HtheB | estel, |
| 00:17.53 | Estel_ | (replace "ground place" with "ground plane") |
| 00:18.05 | HtheB | people can change the chip with a ''heatblower'' |
| 00:18.09 | HtheB | dont know their names |
| 00:18.17 | ZogG_laptop | you want to replace RAM? |
| 00:18.20 | Estel_ | (as otherwise, I would be cooling OneNAND, which isn't bad, but doesn't affect CPu that much) |
| 00:18.22 | MohammadAG | Do the expensive tools include the SoC |
| 00:18.38 | MohammadAG | It's not cheap when not in bulk? |
| 00:18.40 | MohammadAG | -? |
| 00:19.01 | Estel_ | HtheB, you mean hotair probably, but I'm almsot sure that it's too low tech to replace N900 OneNAND reliably |
| 00:19.22 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, no idea, but define "not cheap" for me, 300 USD for RA|M upgrade in N900 is worth that, even more |
| 00:19.22 | HtheB | my cousins are doing phone repairs by their owns |
| 00:19.44 | HtheB | changing all kinds of chips :p |
| 00:19.55 | HtheB | with actually pretty cheap stuff |
| 00:20.06 | Estel_ | HtheB, if he is skilled, who knows, but I wouldn't touch it with long stick without infra-red soldering station, that pre-heat parts of PCB (very rapidly, so heat can't diofusse) in the process |
| 00:20.27 | *** part/#maemo tehdely (whereu@str8.chir.pn) |
| 00:20.32 | MohammadAG | No, go up |
| 00:20.37 | Estel_ | of course, it's true that there are people who can do miracles with proper hot air |
| 00:20.39 | MohammadAG | Afaik it's not cheap at all |
| 00:20.40 | HtheB | I just wanted to upgrade my n950 to 64gb, look what were up to now haahhah |
| 00:20.41 | *** join/#maemo iluminator105 (iluminator@unaffiliated/iluminator105) |
| 00:21.12 | Estel_ | HtheB, you realize that N900 with microSd slot and 32 internal storage + 1GB of RAM is much better than N950 with 64GB? :P |
| 00:21.19 | HtheB | yeah |
| 00:21.28 | Estel_ | anyway, difficulity level of replacing N950 storage and replacing N900 OneNAND is simillar |
| 00:21.31 | Estel_ | similar* |
| 00:21.31 | HtheB | but its harmattan what makes it better |
| 00:21.37 | iluminator105 | have any of you guys overclocked you n900 what speed works best when overclocking without draining your battery power and to be used daily as you sole and mail phone |
| 00:21.40 | Estel_ | wowowowot? |
| 00:21.49 | iluminator105 | main* |
| 00:21.51 | HtheB | more apps/games |
| 00:22.01 | Estel_ | Harmattan is such shitty, that I can't even find words, when someone preffer it over our cssu/kernel-power enchanced hildon :P |
| 00:22.14 | Estel_ | HtheB, harmattan got more "apps"? :/ in which universe? |
| 00:22.18 | HtheB | i actually like harmattan |
| 00:22.26 | HtheB | Estel_, games like NFS :) |
| 00:22.27 | Estel_ | and aegis?:P |
| 00:22.29 | HtheB | commercial games |
| 00:22.34 | HtheB | we have inception |
| 00:22.43 | Estel_ | HtheB, I was installing NFS in N900 via preenv for kids, some time ago |
| 00:22.45 | robbiethe1st | Yeah. It's more of a phone versus a PC |
| 00:23.00 | HtheB | preenv heheh |
| 00:23.02 | Estel_ | inception don't solve a thing when it comes to bypassing file's checksums |
| 00:23.12 | Estel_ | wonde,r why You can't downgrade, even with inception?;) |
| 00:23.16 | Estel_ | or even with open kernel? |
| 00:23.31 | HtheB | i totally removed inception from my device once |
| 00:23.31 | Estel_ | even Mer can't access cal (like, change device lock code), as without aegis, cal is locked |
| 00:23.47 | HtheB | err |
| 00:23.48 | HtheB | i mean aegis |
| 00:23.57 | Estel_ | HtheB, as for games, I was recently playing Homeworld in N900 :) |
| 00:24.03 | Estel_ | desktop one ;) |
| 00:24.12 | HtheB | estel, now we can on harmattan |
| 00:24.14 | HtheB | easydebian |
| 00:24.19 | HtheB | :)) |
| 00:24.20 | Estel_ | no, it wasn't through ED |
| 00:24.26 | HtheB | meh |
| 00:24.26 | Estel_ | don't even think about running homeworld inside ED |
| 00:24.31 | Estel_ | It will spazms in flames |
| 00:24.32 | HtheB | xD |
| 00:24.35 | HtheB | hmmm |
| 00:24.36 | Estel_ | with 1fps framerate |
| 00:24.41 | Estel_ | or 0.01 fps, actually |
| 00:24.44 | Estel_ | even on N950 ;) |
| 00:24.53 | HtheB | to be honesy |
| 00:24.53 | HtheB | honest |
| 00:24.53 | HtheB | i like the design of harmattan |
| 00:25.00 | HtheB | the menus etc |
| 00:25.02 | Estel_ | lack of widgets?:P |
| 00:25.09 | HtheB | dont use them actually |
| 00:25.15 | HtheB | eats battery anyways |
| 00:25.23 | Estel_ | properly written widget doesn't |
| 00:25.30 | Estel_ | I don't use those that eat battery |
| 00:25.43 | Estel_ | anyway, swie irritate me as hell |
| 00:25.45 | HtheB | use widgetcanvas |
| 00:25.48 | HtheB | on harmattan |
| 00:25.58 | Estel_ | I know it's not popular opinion, but it fels dumbed down, comapred to Maemo's task manager |
| 00:26.02 | Estel_ | (CSSU enchanced) |
| 00:26.08 | Estel_ | it's not the same :( |
| 00:26.21 | robbiethe1st | Yeah, sadly. |
| 00:26.23 | HtheB | one more thing that i hate on the N900 is that the touschreen breaks fast |
| 00:26.26 | Estel_ | and way harmattan treat linux files deserve banishment in hell |
| 00:26.31 | HtheB | doesnt work properly |
| 00:26.36 | Estel_ | HtheB, huh? never heard about broken touchscren |
| 00:26.46 | Estel_ | other than hit floor |
| 00:26.50 | HtheB | no |
| 00:26.59 | HtheB | broken isnt the right wor |
| 00:27.01 | HtheB | d |
| 00:27.01 | Estel_ | aaaaaaand, the winner is... crappy capacitive screen! god, how I hate this on N950 |
| 00:27.16 | robbiethe1st | Me either. Hell... I've managed to crack my LCD /through/ the touchscreen, replaced the LCD and the touchscreen still worked great |
| 00:27.17 | Estel_ | another "burn in hell" |
| 00:27.22 | HtheB | I like this glass screen xD |
| 00:27.24 | Estel_ | lol |
| 00:27.42 | Estel_ | HtheB, first, N950 doesn't have glass, second, they can put glass in my a.. when it's impossible to hit small buttons in ED |
| 00:27.43 | HtheB | break the glass, digitizer still works |
| 00:27.44 | HtheB | yaay |
| 00:27.49 | Estel_ | or no pressure sensitivity |
| 00:28.02 | Estel_ | because capacitive doesn't have digitizer ;) |
| 00:28.02 | HtheB | estel, thats why we need usb host mode |
| 00:28.06 | HtheB | to use a mouse |
| 00:28.11 | Estel_ | HtheB, sadly, it won't happen, afaik |
| 00:28.26 | Estel_ | but, you can't imagine how many tgimes I used Ed on the go, for example, to edit RAw photos in GIMP |
| 00:28.34 | Estel_ | made by camera-ui2 or fCam ;) |
| 00:28.43 | Estel_ | or to resize and convert them to emmc |
| 00:28.46 | HtheB | estel, we need flash |
| 00:28.47 | Estel_ | stylus rox |
| 00:28.49 | HtheB | I need flash |
| 00:28.57 | robbiethe1st | Yeah, capacitative is just, not as accurate |
| 00:28.58 | HtheB | EVERYBODY NEEDS FLASH |
| 00:29.18 | Estel_ | HtheB, in fact flash is somewhere near last things that interest me, honestly :P |
| 00:29.26 | Estel_ | adobe can put their flash in... you know where |
| 00:29.34 | HtheB | ass |
| 00:29.41 | Estel_ | no, how You got this idea? ;) |
| 00:29.46 | HtheB | well.. I make flash websites :( |
| 00:29.50 | robbiethe1st | Yeah, flash is important, as far as I'm concerned |
| 00:29.52 | Estel_ | well, good rationale |
| 00:29.57 | HtheB | www.mufaklussenbedrijf.nl |
| 00:30.00 | Estel_ | well, N900 have flash 10 already |
| 00:30.01 | HtheB | www.mtwezel.be |
| 00:30.04 | robbiethe1st | Mainly because of idiots like HtheB who make flash sites! |
| 00:30.10 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, lol |
| 00:30.11 | HtheB | xD |
| 00:30.16 | HtheB | flash ftw |
| 00:30.33 | Estel_ | erm, while I appreciate skills of flash-sites makers, if I need to be honest, I also hate flash sites :P |
| 00:30.38 | HtheB | by the way, have you tried out the new firefox based browser? |
| 00:30.45 | Estel_ | interesingly, haven't run into any for more than 2 years now |
| 00:31.09 | Estel_ | which - sorry HtheB, you probably won't liek me :P - I took as good omen of flash dying, as medium for websites |
| 00:31.23 | Estel_ | thansk to idiotic adobe, their politics for mobile, their closed-sourceness, etc |
| 00:31.51 | Estel_ | but but, HtheB, try to catch ShadowJK here, he for sure know location of chips and even models required |
| 00:32.11 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05 for sure remember location of chips, I suppose that he don't have info about replacement parts with 1GB RAM (i may be wrong) |
| 00:32.14 | HtheB | Estel_, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85191 |
| 00:32.32 | Estel_ | seen that |
| 00:32.40 | Estel_ | freemangordon haven't had time to look into it, yet |
| 00:32.47 | ShadowJK | what what |
| 00:32.49 | Estel_ | maybe something could be scavenged for Maemo's improved fennec |
| 00:32.57 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, you're here! :) |
| 00:33.08 | HtheB | with that, we have legally flash on harmattan |
| 00:33.15 | HtheB | ShadowJK, yaay |
| 00:33.44 | Estel_ | well, You know the ages-old topic of replacing N900's OneNAND. Don't hold You breath, but there is small, very small chance, that someone could achieve it. HtheB claims to have access to proper tools and skilled serviceman for replacing small chips |
| 00:34.02 | ShadowJK | no i dont read tmo anymore, the interface drives me mad |
| 00:34.14 | Estel_ | I remember, that once You told me names of same OneNAND's with 1GB and 512 MB RAM (noting, that it was hard to get) |
| 00:34.52 | Estel_ | Could You point HtheB where OneNAND is exactly located on N900, and what aprts he would need to obtain, to try replacing it with 1GB RAM one? |
| 00:35.01 | Estel_ | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg |
| 00:35.05 | Estel_ | ^^ refference picture |
| 00:35.28 | Estel_ | as I've said earlier, i don't hold my breath, but I'm keeping thumbs for this project very hard... If there is, even small, chance of success, and someone willing to try it... |
| 00:35.31 | Estel_ | why not |
| 00:36.07 | iluminator105 | what speed have you guys overclocked n900 that worked best for daily use |
| 00:36.21 | HtheB | 200mhz |
| 00:36.27 | wmarone | Estel_: what are you trying? |
| 00:36.38 | robbiethe1st | I run 950mhz max, 500mhz min |
| 00:36.55 | HtheB | wmarone, trying to upgrade n900 ram |
| 00:36.58 | wmarone | ahh |
| 00:37.04 | iluminator105 | HtheB, ha ha funny |
| 00:37.07 | Estel_ | wmarone, personally, nothing. Well, trying to help HtheB gatherrequired informations about N900's OneNAND from experts, as my memory faded in that matter, and I was never expert. ShadowJK was and is. |
| 00:37.26 | Estel_ | iluminator105, seriously though, 900 and don't even think about more, as it's waste of power/potential/risky |
| 00:37.37 | wmarone | co-worker and I were pondering complete brain surgery, swapping out the SoC and the ram+nand PoP |
| 00:37.48 | Estel_ | in fact, 500-900 limits, latest KP, smart reflex enabled |
| 00:38.17 | Estel_ | wmarone, yea, but I think that getting other Omap working is muc harder |
| 00:38.24 | wmarone | Estel_: probably |
| 00:38.27 | Estel_ | while OneNAND with matching spec and more RAMJ could be drop-in replacement |
| 00:38.31 | iluminator105 | i think 800gzh is a safe bet then |
| 00:38.39 | Estel_ | harder as in forcing it to work *after* swap |
| 00:39.15 | Estel_ | iluminator105, I run 900 mhz for more than 2 years now. But it's a matter of eprsonal taste. anyway, smart reflex is supported up to 900 mhz in kernel-power |
| 00:39.18 | HtheB | ShadowJK? |
| 00:39.27 | Estel_ | wmarone, it ended up as jsut plans, or tried it? |
| 00:39.34 | Estel_ | HtheB, I suppose he search for links :) |
| 00:39.48 | Estel_ | last time someone seriously considered this was maaaaaany months ago, if not more than year |
| 00:39.55 | wmarone | Estel_: just plans |
| 00:40.05 | Estel_ | wmarone, do you remember exact placement of SoC/OneNAND, as in this picture? |
| 00:40.07 | Estel_ | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_11.jpeg |
| 00:40.08 | HtheB | f the plans |
| 00:40.12 | HtheB | we want real deals |
| 00:40.17 | wmarone | Estel_: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_01.jpeg |
| 00:40.19 | Estel_ | or name of required parts? |
| 00:40.22 | wmarone | big SAMSUNG package in the middle |
| 00:40.38 | HtheB | isnt that the emmc? |
| 00:40.53 | wmarone | no, that's the Toshiba chip in the picture Estel_ linked |
| 00:40.54 | Estel_ | HtheB, eMMC and RAM is on one chip |
| 00:41.02 | Estel_ | or not? |
| 00:41.05 | wmarone | RAM and OneNAND share a package |
| 00:41.06 | Estel_ | sorry, I'm confused now |
| 00:41.10 | wmarone | both on top of the SoC |
| 00:41.18 | Estel_ | ah, sure |
| 00:41.25 | Estel_ | 256 MB RAMand RAM on one side |
| 00:41.29 | iluminator105 | i am interested to see what jollamobile comes up with they have some of best engineers from germany; i just dont understand why nokia hand diamonds in their hands, didnt know what to do with it |
| 00:41.31 | Estel_ | and 32GB eMMC on another |
| 00:41.33 | Estel_ | I remember now |
| 00:41.44 | Estel_ | thanks, wmarone |
| 00:41.46 | wmarone | iluminator105: managerial incompetence |
| 00:41.57 | ShadowJK | Well, my n900 would eneed more ram to loa that image for sure |
| 00:42.04 | Estel_ | wmarone, exactly |
| 00:42.07 | robbiethe1st | Nah, I'd say it's more boatloads of cash from MS |
| 00:42.10 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, why, my N900 loads it fine?:) |
| 00:42.29 | Estel_ | HtheB, as wmarone said, it's thing with "samsung" on it, in this picture: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_01.jpeg |
| 00:42.46 | wmarone | robbiethe1st: no, they were terrible before that happened |
| 00:42.47 | Estel_ | CPU is under, between OneNAND and PCB |
| 00:42.58 | iluminator105 | wmarone, they should have promoted from within for the ceo |
| 00:43.02 | Estel_ | wmarone, true. MS just accelerated things |
| 00:43.15 | Estel_ | iluminator105, CEO was just icing on the top |
| 00:43.22 | Estel_ | Nokia was rotting inside for ages |
| 00:43.28 | HtheB | ok, now with what should we swap it? |
| 00:43.37 | iluminator105 | true |
| 00:43.48 | Estel_ | wmarone, do you remember comaptible parts with 1GB or 512 RAM? ShadowJK, same question? |
| 00:43.52 | wmarone | nope |
| 00:44.16 | wmarone | I've been tempted to look at my employer's catalog, but had so much else to do I haven't done it |
| 00:44.24 | ShadowJK | Estel_; 400M swap in use :) |
| 00:44.27 | Estel_ | I really remember ShadowJK telling me names of 1GB and 512 MB ones, with note that it's hard to obtain those... |
| 00:44.36 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I also use 2GB + swaps :P |
| 00:44.44 | HtheB | do you think we can check the logs? :p |
| 00:44.56 | Estel_ | HtheB, no freaking idea, it was a year ago or so |
| 00:45.04 | wmarone | heh |
| 00:45.09 | robbiethe1st | Let me put it this way: If someone could actually do the replacement with a 512m or 1g chip, I'd be willing to pay up to $200 for someone to do the swap, guaranteed working. |
| 00:45.12 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, use cssu-thumb :P |
| 00:45.24 | ShadowJK | Estel_; no I've never had information about compatible parts |
| 00:45.25 | wmarone | actually getting drop-in compatible ones will probably be tough just due to the age of the socket |
| 00:45.29 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, in fact, I would pay as much as for another N900, or more |
| 00:45.32 | wmarone | let alone actually getting samples |
| 00:45.44 | robbiethe1st | Well, another N900 = $200. So, yeah... |
| 00:45.57 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, huh, you were not the one who told me about similar OneNANDs with more RAM? |
| 00:46.03 | Estel_ | I could swear... eh |
| 00:46.15 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, I meant new N900 price :P |
| 00:46.27 | Estel_ | (including part required) |
| 00:46.27 | wmarone | Estel_: you'd need to make sure that the N900 could also address the larger OneNAND and RAM |
| 00:46.56 | Estel_ | wmarone, yea, though about that, but AFAIK larger RAM wouldn't be a problem (when thinking about 1GB size) |
| 00:47.09 | Estel_ | eh, dreams... :P |
| 00:47.20 | HtheB | how could we address it? |
| 00:47.35 | Estel_ | maybe we should jsut attach notebook-sized RAM stick to one of GPIO interfaces, and use it as swap?:P |
| 00:47.42 | HtheB | :D |
| 00:47.51 | Estel_ | HtheB, we can't it's about omap ability to address it |
| 00:48.00 | Estel_ | which is, of course, closed source |
| 00:48.15 | HtheB | which means....... it wont even use it? |
| 00:48.15 | Estel_ | But, similar omaps were manufactured with more RAM, and I don't belive TI tuned them so much |
| 00:48.23 | HtheB | hmmm |
| 00:48.25 | ShadowJK | Estel_; I'd like to have a big ram in microsd format :) |
| 00:48.27 | Estel_ | I would bet my left shoe that it would have no problem out of the box |
| 00:48.37 | HtheB | alright |
| 00:48.40 | Estel_ | (omap and 1Gb of ram) |
| 00:49.12 | Estel_ | well, if we don't have ready info, I think thast best guess would be to check parameters of our OneNAND... |
| 00:49.20 | Estel_ | and search for similar one with more RAM |
| 00:49.35 | Estel_ | then ask manufacturers about pin layout, then compare it to currently used in N900 |
| 00:50.07 | Estel_ | buying totally died (non-working) N900 and desoldering it's OneNAND + practicing soldering on it would be good idea, too |
| 00:50.10 | wmarone | actually |
| 00:50.24 | wmarone | if you give them a samsung part number they usually maintain a table of compatible parts |
| 00:50.34 | Estel_ | wmarone, good point |
| 00:51.11 | Estel_ | also, as last resort - chinese factories have, many times, access to very strange (and old) parts |
| 00:51.15 | Estel_ | don'[t ask me from where they get it |
| 00:51.52 | ShadowJK | "similar omaps" is a can of worms, the same model number contained part numbers capable of 500 to 1000MHz without overclock, iirc |
| 00:51.52 | Estel_ | doing business with chineses, especially such "strange" case is risky, so it's a rather last resort. And would require buying 500 or so:P |
| 00:52.00 | wmarone | heh |
| 00:52.09 | robbiethe1st | take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Pre_Plus |
| 00:52.22 | robbiethe1st | the plus model uses our same SoC, with 512mb of ram |
| 00:52.24 | ShadowJK | N900 has the earliest ones that do 500MHz withour overclock |
| 00:52.24 | ShadowJK | (and overclocked to 600 out of box :) |
| 00:52.46 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, sure, but do we have any reasons to suspect that our certain model wouldn't support 1GB of RAM? |
| 00:53.04 | Estel_ | in fact, TI would need to take special care to limit it to 256 MB addressing, I doubt it |
| 00:53.27 | robbiethe1st | check the above link |
| 00:53.29 | robbiethe1st | also http://www.ebay.com/itm/PALM-PRE-PLUS-Verizon-Clean-ESN-Touch-Screen-Cell-Phone-HAS-SCRATCHES-/300767605550?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item460725732e |
| 00:53.31 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, good point, our ability to use Preenv was due to same omap used |
| 00:53.47 | robbiethe1st | Pick one up for $25, transplant the whole SoC, flash it and away you go? |
| 00:53.49 | Estel_ | but no idea if oneNAND was same type and pin layout :( |
| 00:54.03 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, hm |
| 00:54.08 | HtheB | the problem is the pinlayout |
| 00:54.11 | Estel_ | no idea if it would work. who knows? |
| 00:54.11 | HtheB | exactly |
| 00:54.22 | ShadowJK | 512 would probably be doable, 1G prolly requires more kernel work I'm guessing |
| 00:54.27 | Estel_ | but but, if it's really same omap, 500 mhz one, maybe pin layout is same? |
| 00:54.29 | robbiethe1st | I'd assume the same model SoC would have the same pinout... |
| 00:54.33 | Estel_ | need to check pin layout of one used in palm pre |
| 00:54.36 | Estel_ | and compare it to N900 |
| 00:54.38 | Estel_ | one |
| 00:54.46 | Estel_ | 512 MB is 1Gb, but still better than 256 MB :) |
| 00:54.50 | robbiethe1st | *palm pre /plus/* |
| 00:54.56 | Estel_ | yea |
| 00:55.16 | robbiethe1st | 512mb would be perfect, IMHO. 1g(or 4G) would be better, but 512MB would be enough |
| 00:55.26 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, if replacing N900's RAM to 1GB would be possible physically, I'm sure that we would have at least 2 talented kernel developers to path support for 1GB :) |
| 00:55.29 | Estel_ | in kernel-power |
| 00:55.41 | Estel_ | but, 512 RAM, if chip would be easily obtainable from palm pre plus, is good start, too |
| 00:55.52 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, forget about more than 1GB |
| 00:56.21 | Estel_ | no compatible oneNANDS in existence, I'm sure (with more than 1GB). besides that, 1Gb is really a heaven |
| 00:56.30 | Estel_ | we don't need more, as CPU would be limiting us, anyway |
| 00:56.45 | Estel_ | 900 mhz overclocked CPU and 1Gb of rAM pairs very well :) |
| 00:56.50 | robbiethe1st | heck, I wonder... could you get a microSD form factor with dram instead of flash? |
| 00:57.11 | Estel_ | 512 MB leaves room for improvement, but it's still one heaven up from what we have now |
| 00:57.22 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, first of all, microSd itnerface wouldn' |
| 00:57.26 | Estel_ | tallow speeds of RAM |
| 00:57.33 | Estel_ | second, no such devices in existence |
| 00:57.44 | Estel_ | even if, it would be just fast swap (but not RAM-like fast) |
| 00:57.49 | robbiethe1st | yeah |
| 00:57.52 | Estel_ | but it doesn't exist and no one plans to do it |
| 00:57.54 | iluminator105 | Estel_, what kernel are you running? |
| 00:58.02 | Estel_ | latest kernel-power, of course |
| 00:58.14 | Estel_ | and cssu-thumb |
| 00:58.19 | HtheB | estel, where is the samsung chip? |
| 00:58.23 | HtheB | i see Toshiba :p |
| 00:58.30 | Estel_ | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/n900_01.jpeg |
| 00:58.35 | Estel_ | You're looking on wrong side of N900 |
| 00:58.41 | HtheB | oh xD |
| 00:58.43 | Estel_ | toshiba is eMMC |
| 00:59.00 | ShadowJK | I vaguely remember beagleboard or pandaboard having issues with 1G ram |
| 00:59.11 | Estel_ | I would like to see serviceman with hot air capable of de-soldering and soldering it ;) |
| 00:59.26 | HtheB | sure, i can make a video :p |
| 00:59.30 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, hm, they have solved it? |
| 00:59.33 | HtheB | btw, its the same as i posted on the topic |
| 00:59.39 | wmarone | ShadowJK: pandaboard had issues in the first rev, haven't looked in a while |
| 00:59.40 | Estel_ | HtheB, not needed, results are all we care for :P |
| 00:59.40 | HtheB | where we talk on tmo |
| 00:59.41 | ShadowJK | kernel issues, squeezing the ram and all the i/o into however big the omap's address space is |
| 01:00.13 | Estel_ | well, if 1GB would be possible I'm fine with 512 MB too |
| 01:00.21 | Estel_ | (although, maybe kernel hacking would allow 1GB?) |
| 01:00.25 | Estel_ | but, but, we need to go back to earth |
| 01:00.34 | Estel_ | actually, we don't have physicall access to it, yet :P |
| 01:00.41 | Estel_ | physical* |
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| 01:00.58 | ShadowJK | wmarone; that was just that the ram was fucking slow though, wasnt it? |
| 01:01.21 | wmarone | no I think they had actual problems (panics, etc.) when accessing all 1GB |
| 01:01.23 | Estel_ | HtheB, wmarone idea about giving current part's number to manufacturers and asking them for table of compatible models is very good |
| 01:01.30 | wmarone | I opted against buying one cause of it |
| 01:01.33 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st idea of cannibalising palm pre plus is also nice one |
| 01:02.26 | Estel_ | buying broken one for 25$ is worth the effort of comparing pin layout :) |
| 01:02.34 | Estel_ | (ot determining piun layout before buying, too) |
| 01:02.44 | wmarone | see if you can find a misplaced datasheet |
| 01:03.15 | Estel_ | HtheB, You have Open[ed] Pandora [box] ;) |
| 01:04.44 | ShadowJK | it was probably SpeedEvil or DocScrutinizer who listed parts |
| 01:04.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | both |
| 01:05.04 | Estel_ | if I'm ever gonna be rich, I'm going to buy insanely expensive infra-red soldering station, and mod N900's PCB like hell |
| 01:05.24 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, sure, sorry, I'm mistaking You with SpeedEvil too often |
| 01:05.54 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05 - > mad serviceman with hot air gun and naked N900 motherboard, what can go wrong? ;) |
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| 01:07.16 | iluminator105 | Estel_, cssu-thumb what you mean? |
| 01:07.43 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, any comment on using palm pre's plus oneNAND (let alone possibility of soldering it, physically)? |
| 01:08.42 | HtheB | :D |
| 01:08.43 | iluminator105 | Estel_, you mean titan power kernel? |
| 01:08.50 | *** join/#maemo generalantilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles) |
| 01:09.54 | HtheB | estal, |
| 01:09.59 | HtheB | estel |
| 01:10.27 | Estel_ | iluminator105, see http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power |
| 01:10.35 | Estel_ | overall, wiki is good place to read all about everything |
| 01:11.04 | HtheB | www.datasheetcatalog.com |
| 01:11.05 | Estel_ | also, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829 ( iluminator105 ) |
| 01:11.12 | Estel_ | what, HtheB? :D |
| 01:11.36 | Estel_ | hm |
| 01:11.46 | Estel_ | aaaand? |
| 01:12.03 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, alive here? don't want to help us ruin one device's motherboard?;) |
| 01:12.13 | HtheB | KAT00F00D0-AE77 |
| 01:12.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | no comments |
| 01:12.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | catfood |
| 01:12.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | catoofood |
| 01:12.53 | Estel_ | You could at least give part numbers, again ;) |
| 01:12.58 | Estel_ | when kindly asked |
| 01:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no I can't as I didn't store them back when |
| 01:13.26 | Estel_ | how have You found them? |
| 01:13.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | like always |
| 01:13.53 | Estel_ | enlighten us, o great |
| 01:14.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | 60 min of googling and reading datasheets online |
| 01:14.19 | Estel_ | we will bath in light of You... oh, damn, google'ing again |
| 01:14.26 | Estel_ | I hoped for some kind of aliejn artifact |
| 01:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | google katoofood, good start |
| 01:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | err KAT00F00D |
| 01:15.24 | Estel_ | seriously though, HtheB, first thing needed is determining palm pre plus pinout layout |
| 01:15.32 | Estel_ | also, add SpeedEvil to list of people that you need to ping |
| 01:15.49 | HtheB | can someone find me a cheap ebay one? |
| 01:15.50 | Estel_ | if he have that lsit somewhere, he will be more than happy to share it |
| 01:15.55 | Estel_ | available on IRC, many times |
| 01:16.02 | Estel_ | katoofood on ebay? |
| 01:16.06 | Estel_ | or palm pre plus? |
| 01:16.16 | Estel_ | robbie gave link to one with broken screen, 25$ |
| 01:16.20 | Estel_ | few lines above |
| 01:16.23 | Estel_ | or pages |
| 01:16.24 | Estel_ | actually |
| 01:16.26 | Estel_ | backscroll |
| 01:16.29 | HtheB | palmprep |
| 01:16.53 | iluminator105 | Estel_, so you use kernel on a dual boot? |
| 01:17.00 | iluminator105 | both* |
| 01:17.04 | Estel_ | iluminator105, what a dual boot? why so? |
| 01:17.17 | Estel_ | dual both is even less meaningful to me |
| 01:17.22 | Estel_ | Just install kernel power |
| 01:17.37 | Estel_ | and CSSU, or cssu-thumb if You feel adventorous (warning, alfa, may eat your brain, etc) |
| 01:17.48 | iluminator105 | thumb is for better power management? |
| 01:17.56 | Estel_ | no, thumb is for less RAM used |
| 01:18.06 | Estel_ | it works very stable, but still, it's experimental |
| 01:18.28 | ShadowJK | iirc doc said before 30% success rate if done by a very skilled person, but he was assuming using fresh chips, not salvaged chips :P |
| 01:18.31 | Estel_ | for stable quality, use cssu-testing. For super stable quality - except for unfixed bugs, fixed in -testing - use cssu-stable |
| 01:18.45 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, in fact 30% success rate would be worth it |
| 01:18.53 | Estel_ | but better equipment rise it |
| 01:19.20 | Estel_ | at infra-red soldering station with function of pre-heating PCB aprts selectively in less than 2 seconds, I would expect 80% success rate :P |
| 01:19.33 | HtheB | i dont get it |
| 01:19.39 | HtheB | seriously |
| 01:19.39 | HtheB | those guys works with many chips |
| 01:19.39 | HtheB | a lot... |
| 01:19.51 | Estel_ | HtheB, basically it means risk of breaking motherboard/chip itself |
| 01:19.54 | iluminator105 | Estel_, i would have to study it for couple of days and ask any questions that i have before i do it |
| 01:19.55 | Estel_ | well, maybe he is genius |
| 01:20.01 | Estel_ | iluminator105, good idea |
| 01:20.17 | HtheB | like replacing bluetooth wifi emmc and stuff |
| 01:20.18 | Estel_ | most of us study Maemo for years now, and never stop to do so ;) |
| 01:20.26 | HtheB | and chaning imeis :p |
| 01:20.32 | Estel_ | bluetooth and wifi is easier. eMMC sounds like more related |
| 01:21.12 | Estel_ | well, show him photos, pin layout and techniques, and ask him how he rate chances (after obtaining all required info, datasheet or aprt numbers, etc) |
| 01:21.12 | HtheB | ill ask them tomorrow about it |
| 01:21.21 | HtheB | you know what sux? |
| 01:21.27 | HtheB | im in turkey at the moment |
| 01:21.42 | Estel_ | vacations sux, huh? |
| 01:21.46 | Estel_ | wanna swap? |
| 01:21.59 | Estel_ | in Poland we have 34 C degrees |
| 01:22.01 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 01:22.17 | Estel_ | 22 during coldest part of night |
| 01:22.29 | HtheB | and my cousins are here (they live here and do the work over here) |
| 01:22.30 | HtheB | and ill be leaving in a couple days now -_- |
| 01:22.30 | HtheB | but dont worry |
| 01:22.30 | HtheB | ill leave the N900 here, so they can still do it when we find the right chip |
| 01:22.30 | HtheB | so they can show me the resuls |
| 01:22.30 | HtheB | results |
| 01:22.50 | HtheB | no, it sucks that i have to go back to holland in a few days |
| 01:22.54 | Estel_ | sounds like a plan |
| 01:23.03 | HtheB | kurva mac |
| 01:23.50 | Estel_ | well, even if it mnfails - most likely scenario - dreams of mroe RAM in N900 were awakened again |
| 01:24.05 | Estel_ | I'm sure that even in asshats like DocScrutinizer05, small spark of fire... |
| 01:24.10 | Estel_ | Erm, time to go to sleep |
| 01:24.24 | iluminator105 | Thanks Estel_ |
| 01:24.26 | Estel_ | ;) see ya! |
| 01:24.28 | Estel_ | no problem! |
| 01:24.30 | HtheB | :) |
| 01:24.34 | HtheB | well |
| 01:24.52 | HtheB | I hope i can find a part in 5678456787567545678 things they have |
| 01:24.56 | HtheB | who knows :) |
| 01:25.01 | HtheB | nite all |
| 01:25.04 | HtheB | or.. moning.. |
| 01:25.07 | *** part/#maemo iluminator105 (iluminator@unaffiliated/iluminator105) |
| 01:25.08 | HtheB | whtever u wanna call it |
| 01:25.18 | HtheB | time to pray and to sleep :)) |
| 01:31.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-22 03:18:31] <Estel_> for stable quality, use cssu-testing. For super stable quality - except for unfixed bugs, fixed in -testing - use cssu-stable [[bullshit!]] [2012-08-22 03:18:54] <Estel_> but better equipment rise it [[do you think Openmoko used russian surplus lab equipment?]] [2012-08-22 03:24:05] <Estel_> I'm sure that even in asshats like DocScrutinizer05, small spark of fire... [2012-08-22 03:24:10] <Estel_> Erm, |
| 01:31.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | time to go to sleep |
| 01:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, go sleeping! |
| 01:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | before I get upset |
| 01:32.03 | Estel_ | hey, You don't like when someone mention that You can have spark of burning fire inside?:P |
| 01:32.26 | Estel_ | btw, CSSU-stable don't have fixes from cssu-testing (that haven't yet got to stable). weong? |
| 01:32.28 | Estel_ | wrong*? |
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| 01:33.06 | Estel_ | as for equipment, well, you mentioned some genius that replaced it - I assumed that he haven't had infra red soldering lab. feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong :) |
| 01:33.15 | Estel_ | 4. don't get upset, it's not good for health. |
| 01:33.46 | Estel_ | always look on the bright side of... death :) |
| 01:33.53 | Estel_ | is dissapearing for sleep |
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| 04:37.41 | internetishard | any iOS developers here? |
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| 04:53.10 | internetishard | Was just curious about maemo users take on iOS dev. I'm starting to make an iOS app, but I use an n900 of course |
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| 05:23.39 | Macer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiVnMazRIII&feature=youtube_gdata_player |
| 05:23.47 | Macer | disney's attack on opensource |
| 05:23.55 | Macer | it's almost like joe camel all over again! |
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| 10:09.15 | HtheB | Estel_, u awake? |
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| 10:43.22 | louisdk | Hi. When I plug in my headset from my Nokia N9 into my Thinkpad T61p running Ubuntu 12.04 x64 the sound is pretty low untill I press a button on my headset (where the mic is). Does anyone had a similar problem and does anyone know how I can get louder sound without pressing that button? I had a similar problem with my headset form my Nokia N900. |
| 10:43.48 | timo^ | Well louisdk |
| 10:44.21 | timo^ | I have the prob that the extra line on the 3,5mm plug is evil |
| 10:44.40 | timo^ | I have to plug it in for 3/4, then the sound is good |
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| 11:02.33 | ZogG_laptop | timo it's louis ck :) |
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| 12:08.54 | gomiam | this is weird... everything seems to connect correctly in my n900 except apt-get update :) |
| 12:10.20 | StyXman | proxy? |
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| 12:23.38 | gomiam | no, I'm connected through a shared connection on a Windows 7 computer. |
| 12:23.53 | gomiam | the funny thing is now one of the repositories managed to answer. |
| 12:24.22 | gomiam | first I received Network unreachable messages, then I got gzip errors and now it seems it might even work as expected :) |
| 12:26.02 | gomiam | at least for some repositories |
| 12:26.09 | gomiam | I guess I'll try again at home |
| 12:27.20 | gomiam | thanks for answering, anyway :) |
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| 12:34.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | (ram expansion): starting point: http://www.hkinventory.com/public/OfferInventResult.asp?search=offerinvent&MainCate=&SubCate=&Order=&keywords=&words=&mode=&brand=&datecode=&MinQty=&iSearchCateCrit=&MultiSearch=0&pnums=KAT00F00&btnSubmit=Search&Crit1=0&Membership=0&orderby=0 |
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| 12:36.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | then visit all the linked pages, to occasionally find detailed data about the product (RAM size, NAND size, pinout?) and maybe even links to datasheets |
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| 12:37.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | also google for each type listed there |
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| 12:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | after a day or two of work, you know 99.5% what component you would like to get to try the RAM expansion |
| 12:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, no estel, no HtheB, nobody around who pestered me yesterday |
| 12:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | wmarone: ^^^ |
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| 12:47.13 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: :) |
| 12:50.55 | SpeedEvil | For upgrading the n900? |
| 12:51.20 | SpeedEvil | yeah - it's messy. I was unable to find sources for the one part that I found that looked plausible. |
| 12:51.33 | SpeedEvil | POP RAM isn't really a commonly sold item through disties. |
| 12:59.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: do you by any chance recall the part number, or where you found it? |
| 13:00.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.docstoc.com/docs/81716996/Cep-Telefonu-Tamir-Kursu for those who think it's easy to find the right part - this is as well stuff you need to read to gather any available bit of info |
| 13:02.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you contact some friend EE in TPE or HK who knows a bit about sourcing, and ask him to call Samsung about compatible PoP-chip with larger RAM |
| 13:02.14 | SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall I went through the micron part selector |
| 13:02.26 | SpeedEvil | and it came up with a couple that looked at least plausible. |
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| 13:02.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 13:02.37 | SpeedEvil | - the package seems custom for the OMAP |
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| 13:02.59 | SpeedEvil | So an POP138 (???) parts have a reasonable chance of working. |
| 13:03.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the approach to use a complete SoC PoP stack stolen from another device seems best approach |
| 13:03.32 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 13:03.50 | SpeedEvil | Ideally a stack with a 720MHz rated processor under it :) |
| 13:04.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 13:04.36 | SpeedEvil | Some other devices are lots easier. The nexus 7 RAM looks almost trivial to upgrade. |
| 13:04.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | also way "easier" to swap a whole SoC than just the PoP |
| 13:05.06 | SpeedEvil | Well - as I understand it, the stacks are not glued together in any way |
| 13:05.10 | SpeedEvil | they're just balled together |
| 13:05.47 | SpeedEvil | but yes, getting one to melt without the other... |
| 13:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | if nothing else works, you also could do a piggyback PCB on top of CPU that interfaces to POP138(?) on the bottom and to two or more chips for RAM and NAND on top side |
| 13:06.21 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 13:07.51 | r00t|home | you could also design and build your own phone |
| 13:08.15 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt |
| 13:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | so where are those eager hackers who asked about how to destro... err expand their RAM? |
| 13:08.22 | SpeedEvil | It's unfortunately complex. |
| 13:08.30 | SpeedEvil | r00t|home: |
| 13:09.06 | SpeedEvil | And I want to, but I have no energy. Waaaaay more important stuff is unfortunately getting neglected. |
| 13:09.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I actually already connsidered cloning N900 exactly, but even that is more than difficult, regarding the sourcing situation |
| 13:09.38 | SpeedEvil | Paint the roof of the gazebo, replace the sheds walls, fix my bathroom, ... |
| 13:09.46 | SpeedEvil | indeed. |
| 13:10.10 | SpeedEvil | I keep looking at teeny miniPCI 3G modems, and my crap android tablet. |
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| 13:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | if anybody is eager to go that route, why not start with GTA04? |
| 13:10.55 | SpeedEvil | (crap in comprison to my n7, it's OK, but comparing a 800MHz proc to 1.4GHz) |
| 13:11.03 | SpeedEvil | Lack of actual hw. |
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| 13:24.00 | HtheB | Estel_ |
| 13:24.01 | HtheB | ping, poke.. or whatever |
| 13:24.01 | HtheB | just wake up |
| 13:24.01 | HtheB | :D |
| 13:24.09 | Estel_ | hm? |
| 13:24.49 | Estel_ | mplayer /home/user/porn.mpeg |
| 13:24.55 | Estel_ | ops, why you're disturbing me, HtheB? |
| 13:25.09 | HtheB | accourding to my nephews, it will work |
| 13:25.10 | HtheB | they can swap the chip without problems |
| 13:25.10 | HtheB | since there s no silicon next to the chip |
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| 13:25.40 | Estel_ | sounds great, although, from experienc,e I wouldn't be so sure about that. CPU stuck between it and PCB isn't problem? |
| 13:25.42 | HtheB | why not MyDocs? your home dir will be full in no time :p |
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| 13:25.52 | HtheB | nope |
| 13:25.52 | Estel_ | he, he |
| 13:25.55 | HtheB | no prob |
| 13:26.16 | HtheB | the problem is: finding the chip |
| 13:26.19 | HtheB | read the topic |
| 13:26.22 | HtheB | someone replied |
| 13:26.30 | HtheB | 2gb ram + 4gb flash |
| 13:26.32 | Estel_ | well, I've heard about people who're able to do things, that seasoned E engineers state as impossible, so, it's not that I don't belive it. Maybe You're lucky and have skilled nephew |
| 13:26.46 | Estel_ | I'll check it, but 2GB RAM sounds like a no-go for our omap |
| 13:27.01 | HtheB | talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 |
| 13:27.05 | HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 |
| 13:27.08 | Estel_ | 4GB flash pose some problems, too (but not to big, can be overcome by big enough microSD) |
| 13:27.18 | Estel_ | sure, sure, i'll check it :) |
| 13:27.24 | Estel_ | thanks for pointers |
| 13:35.23 | HtheB | do you think it's in GB or in Gb? |
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| 13:44.20 | HtheB | Estel_, still watching pr0n? |
| 13:44.33 | Estel_ | nooope, reading TMO |
| 13:44.41 | Estel_ | more porn there, daily |
| 13:44.52 | HtheB | exactly |
| 13:44.53 | HtheB | :p |
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| 13:47.03 | HtheB | Estel_, what can we do with more ram on the N900? |
| 13:47.14 | HtheB | port harmattan? :p |
| 13:47.20 | Estel_ | everything, You know what RAM is used for |
| 13:47.34 | Estel_ | well, harmattan programs already run on n900 via meecolay or something like that |
| 13:47.48 | Estel_ | most likely, chromium and iceweasle is going to start flying in super speed |
| 13:48.05 | Estel_ | and every other Ed program (which worked well even now, with more RAM, it would literally fly) |
| 13:48.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | what friggin topic? |
| 13:48.45 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, well, it's progressing ;) |
| 13:49.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's a prime number |
| 13:49.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-22 15:26:30] <HtheB> 2gb ram + 4gb flash [2012-08-22 15:26:46] <Estel_> I'll check it, but 2GB RAM sounds like a no-go for our omap |
| 13:49.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | sort your nomenclature |
| 13:50.05 | Estel_ | nope, i'll check thread |
| 13:50.15 | Estel_ | 2GB rAM is a no go for our omap no matter of my checking ;) |
| 13:50.19 | Estel_ | don't cut it out of context. |
| 13:50.36 | Estel_ | <HtheB> read the topic |
| 13:50.44 | Estel_ | <Estel_> I'll check it |
| 13:50.57 | Estel_ | <HtheB> talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 |
| 13:51.01 | Estel_ | <HtheB> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 |
| 13:53.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | those chips are always bit size, never byte size since your arch could use 8, 16, 32 words |
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| 14:00.37 | Estel_ | so you mean that it's 256 MB (4Gb) RAM and 512 MB (4Gb)? |
| 14:01.02 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, ^^^ |
| 14:01.51 | zeq1 | (unless it's consumer retail flash) |
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| 14:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4Gb / 8 |
| 14:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | = GB |
| 14:02.48 | Estel_ | yep |
| 14:03.06 | Estel_ | thats why I calculated it as 256 MB RAM and 512 MB Flash |
| 14:03.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | reread your post |
| 14:03.30 | Estel_ | unless, as said, it was MB, and someone just mixed Mb with MB when writing about it (haven't checked topic yet) |
| 14:03.37 | jon_y | oh god, you guys are actually swapping out mounted RAM now? |
| 14:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | some guys again ponder it ;-P |
| 14:04.11 | jon_y | I thought I've seen crazy, but doing it on a modern SOC tops it |
| 14:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd suggest to swap complete SoC PoP stack though |
| 14:04.39 | jon_y | not as simple as 80s/90s hardhacks |
| 14:05.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually redoing PoP stacking is pretty hard, since it's not a normal PCB and normal soldering, and no fresh virgin device on one end at least |
| 14:06.43 | jon_y | so when can I get a refurbished n900 with 32GB RAM? :) :) |
| 14:06.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | swapping the complete SoC (incl PoP stack) is maybe feasible |
| 14:07.33 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, sure, but finding compatible OMAP in stack isn't harder than finding just OneNAND? |
| 14:07.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | not at all |
| 14:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | get it from palm or whatever |
| 14:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | pandaboard, pandora... |
| 14:08.26 | jon_y | sometimes I forget 32bit addressing is limited to 4GB |
| 14:09.22 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, sure, but how to make N90 0work with such omap |
| 14:09.41 | Estel_ | are You sure that closed things aren't fixed for our omap? Wouldn't it need to be *very* similar? |
| 14:09.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it has to be same processor of course |
| 14:09.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | same chip |
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| 14:10.26 | Estel_ | but, same model numbe,r as ShadowJK mentioned, ranged from 500 mhz overclocked to 600 from star,t to 1GHZ not overclocked |
| 14:10.43 | Estel_ | 9and working on much lower voltage) |
| 14:10.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the only problem I see might be with TrustZone and cert |
| 14:10.55 | Estel_ | hm |
| 14:12.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | the binning (selection of chips to different speed/voltage steppings) might be neglectable, though you for sure want some "better" chip bin than the one we already got |
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| 14:12.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there won't be a problem with underclocking / overvolting |
| 14:13.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least it's for sure less of a problem than OC&undervolting |
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| 14:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 14:13.32 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 14:13.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | get a chip with exactly same label and you're probably fine |
| 14:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | TI had no motivation to change footprint/pinout of omap3430 series, since that would introduce problems that aren't needed for anything |
| 14:15.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you should make damn sure you get Nokia xloader running on your new CPU |
| 14:15.58 | HtheB | so... what should I do |
| 14:16.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | with the new root key in ROMBL |
| 14:16.06 | HtheB | talk in English please :p |
| 14:16.28 | HtheB | (plain english) |
| 14:16.30 | HtheB | :D |
| 14:16.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure how the bootoption pins are configured on N900, so whether device even boots up in secure mode or not |
| 14:16.58 | HtheB | Estel_, just point me out what I should do :) |
| 14:17.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski should know about that stuff afaik |
| 14:20.06 | javispedro | again with this? :D |
| 14:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: hi! yeah, seems somebody found an iron-artist who claims he could do a BGA swap |
| 14:22.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: so the old dream of 0.5, 1, even 2 or 4 GB of RAM resurrected |
| 14:22.58 | javispedro | meh |
| 14:23.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's probably as immortal as the desire to OC |
| 14:23.26 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, well, trhumb was also claimed by many* gurus to be impossible ;) |
| 14:23.45 | javispedro | more like "to be useless" |
| 14:23.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | also? |
| 14:23.52 | Estel_ | and Oc works fine without any trustable report of damage, for ~3,5 years... so, it's not exactly best argument against it ;) |
| 14:23.52 | javispedro | (and I still claim it :) ) |
| 14:24.02 | Estel_ | javispedro, You may claim it, but facts seem to prove otherwise |
| 14:24.11 | Estel_ | swap usage dropped considerably |
| 14:24.21 | Estel_ | check maemo-developers mailing list |
| 14:24.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, nobody ever said thumb is impossible afaik. It always been "don't think about it!" |
| 14:24.30 | javispedro | 20 MiB is not "considerably" |
| 14:24.40 | Estel_ | 20 MB out of 256 IS considerably. |
| 14:24.48 | Estel_ | not to mention that it's more or less beginning |
| 14:24.55 | Estel_ | add to this performance benefits from new toolchain ;) |
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| 14:25.12 | javispedro | well, the latter is true. |
| 14:25.18 | Estel_ | remembe,r we still don't have everything sitting in ram as bin; compiled to thumb |
| 14:25.34 | javispedro | and you will never have because a lot of it is closed source. |
| 14:25.47 | Estel_ | as for RAM swap, as said dozens of time, I don't hold my breath for it, but I definitelly keep thumbs (sic!) for this efforts |
| 14:26.15 | Estel_ | as too many times I've seen "don't even think about it" or "impossible" from experienced people, that later was proven to be just matter of discipline and effort in achieving it |
| 14:26.19 | HtheB | estel, even if I swap the ram with the palm pre plus one |
| 14:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the coll. term is "crossing fingers" |
| 14:26.24 | HtheB | dont i have to reprogram it? |
| 14:26.42 | Estel_ | HtheB, it's the same omap - exactly same - so such need shouldn't arise |
| 14:26.49 | javispedro | Estel_: that is a false position |
| 14:26.57 | Estel_ | forother, follow DocScrutinizer05's advice to ask jacekowski about trusted zone |
| 14:27.04 | javispedro | Estel_: most of what has been said as impossible has been, well, impossible. |
| 14:27.09 | Estel_ | freemangordon may know something about it to, due to work on thumb |
| 14:27.14 | Estel_ | HtheB, it's more or less unknown ground |
| 14:27.20 | Estel_ | no one outside TI know it for sure |
| 14:27.26 | Estel_ | you won't know until You check it |
| 14:27.49 | Estel_ | javispedro, sure, I'm talking about things that were said as impossible, because most people wasn't willing to show enough effort to try |
| 14:27.53 | Estel_ | like thumb ;) |
| 14:28.07 | HtheB | so if this is successful, did I made something awesomeness for our community? |
| 14:28.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, everybody outside TI knows, as soon as you read complete SPRUF98D |
| 14:28.23 | Estel_ | HtheB, definitelly |
| 14:28.33 | jonwil | someone will have to find a N900 they are willing to sacrifice for the cause of identifying if its possible to upgrade any hardware chips in N900 |
| 14:28.49 | Estel_ | *if* you would manage to make N90 0fully usable with 512 MB or 1GB of RAM, it would be rather "breakthrough" than a "just awesome" |
| 14:28.57 | HtheB | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:29.01 | HtheB | at my nephew |
| 14:29.04 | Estel_ | jonwil, agaik HtheB want to sacrifice his own device |
| 14:29.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, a front page headline in MWKN |
| 14:29.20 | HtheB | someone is gonna do the dirty job... so |
| 14:29.35 | javispedro | it is not going to be a breakthrough |
| 14:29.38 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it might turn out that some wiring is needed so RAM chip to correctly recognized, never search for that in TRM though |
| 14:29.41 | javispedro | because as DocScrutinizer05 once put rate of success is very low |
| 14:29.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and possibly a business opportunity for 50..300 reworks |
| 14:29.47 | Estel_ | HtheB, basically, it *would* be vallaha of hardware side, not lesser than thumb and new compiler on software side |
| 14:30.09 | Estel_ | javispedro, but rate of success was purely made up |
| 14:30.14 | Estel_ | no one tried it, so no one know |
| 14:30.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: quite possible |
| 14:30.23 | javispedro | Estel_: what do you mean by "no one tried"? |
| 14:30.32 | Estel_ | if HtheB nephew will replace ram in 20 devices, we will have good start for calculating chances |
| 14:30.42 | Estel_ | javispedro, no one tried, physically, to replace N900 RAM |
| 14:30.45 | Estel_ | oneNAND |
| 14:30.47 | javispedro | Estel_: _everyone_ is _everywhere_ trying to reball stuff |
| 14:30.47 | Estel_ | to be precise |
| 14:30.52 | Estel_ | or whole PoP |
| 14:30.57 | javispedro | Estel_: I've tried to reball a Palm T|X OneNAND chip |
| 14:30.59 | HtheB | Estel_, did you check ur pm? |
| 14:31.00 | javispedro | Estel_: to much failure |
| 14:31.09 | javispedro | Estel_: So stop making it trivially easy -- it is not. |
| 14:31.17 | Estel_ | javispedro, OTOH, HtheB's nephew claims to have replaced dozens balls eMMC's |
| 14:31.23 | javispedro | heh |
| 14:31.24 | javispedro | No wonder |
| 14:31.25 | Estel_ | on phones |
| 14:31.40 | javispedro | eMMC is the easier of the pack because it is more or less standard MMC interface (few pins) |
| 14:31.42 | HtheB | they can change it, if there is no silicon on the chip itself |
| 14:31.53 | javispedro | HtheB: that's the second to most absurd thing I've heard today. |
| 14:31.55 | HtheB | and on the N900, they didnt use silicone |
| 14:32.01 | Estel_ | I kinda play devil advocate here, as - again - I don't hold my breath - but, it's definitelly worth trying, if someone have means and will to do |
| 14:32.33 | Estel_ | javispedro, agreed about eMMC |
| 14:32.38 | Estel_ | I aLSO think that it's going to be harder |
| 14:32.44 | HtheB | its some sort of glue that is on the sides of the emmc |
| 14:32.48 | javispedro | please note that there's a reason that many of the open source hardware improvements (e.g. GTA04) replace entire PCBs never single chips |
| 14:32.52 | Estel_ | well, person who is accounted for doing it saw board |
| 14:33.15 | Estel_ | and rated chances high. I'ts possible, and even likely, that he overrated his chances |
| 14:33.26 | Estel_ | but it's also possible that he is better skilled in practice, that we are in theoretizing ;P |
| 14:33.38 | Estel_ | no point in discouraging, before actual attempt |
| 14:33.57 | Estel_ | of course with all warnings, that fail is most likely fatal for chip, board, or both |
| 14:34.44 | Estel_ | javispedro, if I would have infra-red soldering station-lab (this one that also ultra-fast pre-heat parts of pcb), I would already "waste" dozens of N900's motherboards |
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| 14:35.13 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 14:35.14 | Estel_ | when HtheB said, that his nephew want to do it with hot air station, I also rised my brew. But, heck, in fact, what doI know about his practice, methods, skills, etc? |
| 14:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: our most gifted EE at OM tried to fix defective soldering on 10 proto PCB, resoldered S3C64000. Yield: 30% |
| 14:35.38 | Estel_ | I know, i remember it |
| 14:35.52 | Estel_ | well, to be sure about N900, there is only one way... :P |
| 14:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMAP footprint is no way different to S3C64000 |
| 14:36.26 | Estel_ | after all, even failed attempt could produce some ncie documentation |
| 14:36.29 | Estel_ | nice* |
| 14:36.29 | javispedro | it is actually worse... |
| 14:36.37 | Estel_ | nods @ javispedro |
| 14:36.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | but of course the skills may differ, and the PCB footprints as well |
| 14:36.52 | HtheB | guys, just tell me what I have to get and which chip i have to swap with... thats all I need to know as a hardmware n00b |
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| 14:37.08 | javispedro | meh @ practice methods and skills :) |
| 14:37.46 | Estel_ | OTOH, again, it's known fact, that in some exotic countries (sorry for calling turkey exotic, no offense meant), are people that successfuly master to do absolutely crazy modifications - just because they want to sacrifice time and, some times, devices for training |
| 14:37.52 | Estel_ | again, not holding my breath, but... |
| 14:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | somebody claimed palm pre+ has same omap3430 but with 512M RAM |
| 14:38.09 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, yea, it was robbiethe1st. Isn't it true? |
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| 14:38.33 | javispedro | I do not think it has the same OneNAND amount at least though |
| 14:38.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | HtheB: get that phone, remove SoC carefully there, and replace OMAP3430 of N900 with the one you saved from the other phone |
| 14:38.35 | Estel_ | javispedro, as for merit, do You know how to find suitable part? No matter if in low or big quantities? |
| 14:38.56 | Estel_ | HtheB, palm pre plus SoC is good candidate, indeed |
| 14:39.03 | HtheB | ok |
| 14:39.20 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05 suggets to replace BOTH processor and OneNAND, aka whole SoC. It's probably easier and have more chance of success than only OneNAND. |
| 14:39.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: see SpeedEvil's comments |
| 14:39.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | in backscroll |
| 14:39.29 | Estel_ | If Your nephew is absolutely sure, he may try to replace oneNAND only |
| 14:39.36 | HtheB | the omap chip, that isnt the samsung one, right? |
| 14:39.54 | jonwil | the omap chip is a TI chip |
| 14:39.57 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, lost backscroll, I was doiong some maintentance on power line today |
| 14:40.13 | Estel_ | HtheB, Samsung is OneNAND |
| 14:40.18 | Estel_ | under it, there is Omap |
| 14:40.28 | Estel_ | both OneNAND and omap are SoC |
| 14:40.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's called Package on Package |
| 14:40.32 | Estel_ | system on a chip |
| 14:40.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | or PoP |
| 14:40.48 | Estel_ | PoP, not SoC, true, SoC is somewthing little different |
| 14:40.49 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 14:40.52 | Estel_ | Samsung is OneNAND |
| 14:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | OneNAND is no SoC |
| 14:40.56 | Estel_ | yes, yes |
| 14:41.00 | Estel_ | SoC is under OneNAND |
| 14:41.04 | Estel_ | CPu and DSP, yes? |
| 14:41.09 | Estel_ | (soC) |
| 14:41.36 | Estel_ | HtheB, to make it more clear. From top, to bottom (bottom is PCB) |
| 14:41.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and GPIO and x-bridge and whatnot, and cam/LCD interface and and and |
| 14:41.49 | Estel_ | OneNAND (with Samsung mark) -> OMAP -> PCB |
| 14:42.09 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, right, System on a Chip = many things bundled into one chip |
| 14:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
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| 14:42.36 | Estel_ | HtheB, confused, or is it understandable?;) |
| 14:42.46 | HtheB | confused |
| 14:42.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | HtheB: it's a sandwich |
| 14:43.02 | HtheB | just edit the picture forme with circels :p |
| 14:43.04 | Estel_ | again. On photo You have seen |
| 14:43.11 | Estel_ | there will be only one circle |
| 14:43.15 | Estel_ | samsung = OneNAND |
| 14:43.21 | Estel_ | Omap is *under* it |
| 14:43.26 | Estel_ | sandwich, as said |
| 14:43.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | the CPU/SoC is *under* the Samsung MEM |
| 14:43.37 | Estel_ | You don't see it, it's between Samsung (OneNAND) and PCB |
| 14:43.55 | Estel_ | OneNAND is soldered to OMAP, and OMAP is soldered to PCB |
| 14:44.04 | Estel_ | thus good luck on desoldering OneNAND only |
| 14:44.10 | Estel_ | (leaving OMAP) |
| 14:44.16 | Estel_ | and soldering replacement |
| 14:44.17 | Estel_ | that' |
| 14:44.38 | Estel_ | why DocScrutinizer05 suggested replacing *whole* chip, i.e. OMAP+ OneNAND |
| 14:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | even if you make it to unsolder the onenand PoP from the SoC layer, the balls are messed and resoldering is pretty hard |
| 14:44.51 | Estel_ | i.e. desoldering it to the PCB, from both N900 and palm pre plus, and replacing it |
| 14:45.19 | Estel_ | HtheB - generally, tell you nephew to do as pleases him, he may resolder whole chip, or half of it :D |
| 14:45.24 | Estel_ | if he manages to |
| 14:45.27 | HtheB | :D |
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| 14:45.40 | HtheB | just called him |
| 14:45.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you don't know if fab, on packaging (soldering) the Soc+OneNAND sandwiches, did even use glue to avoid later desoldering when soldering the package to PCB |
| 14:45.56 | HtheB | he had a n900 board laying somewhere |
| 14:46.03 | HtheB | so, lets see if he can deattach it |
| 14:46.15 | Estel_ | yea |
| 14:46.22 | HtheB | now I understand what you mewan |
| 14:46.24 | HtheB | mean |
| 14:46.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it might be impossible to unsolder the OneNAND from SoC |
| 14:46.33 | HtheB | its just like a b-day cake |
| 14:46.37 | Estel_ | this, + what DocScrutinizer05 said, make it more feasible to replace whole PoP (whole chip) |
| 14:46.40 | HtheB | cream on the inside :p |
| 14:46.48 | Estel_ | yes |
| 14:46.53 | Estel_ | PCB is cake, OMAP is cream |
| 14:47.12 | Estel_ | OneNAND is one cake, PCB is another, OMAP is cream |
| 14:47.17 | Estel_ | bon apetit |
| 14:47.23 | HtheB | ._. |
| 14:47.50 | Estel_ | what is easier, is to remove both cake and cream (OneNAND + OMAP), and replace it with other cream bundled with bigger cake |
| 14:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_on_package |
| 14:48.21 | Estel_ | theoretically, it's also possible to leave cream, and just replace upper cake with bigger, but it's harder, and may be even impossible (if they used soldering + glue) |
| 14:48.30 | Estel_ | I'm getting hungry |
| 14:49.41 | HtheB | hmmm :/ |
| 14:49.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, leant PoPt is the oneNAND and PoPb is the SoC |
| 14:50.17 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, don't confuse him even more |
| 14:50.37 | Estel_ | all that is needed for purely hardware'ish attemmpt on replace is to remove whole mess from pcxb and replace it with other mess from palm pre plus |
| 14:50.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, it's all easy, wikipedia FTW |
| 14:50.47 | Estel_ | yep |
| 14:50.55 | javispedro | tbh never heard of that terminology :) |
| 14:51.13 | javispedro | either way this is not true 3d stacking, the memory controllers are still on the peripherty |
| 14:51.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither |
| 14:51.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's pretty clear, and I like it |
| 14:51.33 | javispedro | (aka ddr's pins will go to the pcb) |
| 14:52.50 | jaska | can you clone the nokia keys/first stage bootloader etc from the old soc? (if you use a palm pre+ one) |
| 14:53.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Any mechanically mating top package can be used. For a low-end phone, a smaller memory configuration may be used on the top package. For a high-end phone, more memory could be used with the same bottom package.[1] This simplifies inventory control by the OEM<< |
| 14:53.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | the wonders of JEDEC standards |
| 14:53.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: nope |
| 14:53.55 | jaska | thats what i thought. |
| 14:54.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: that's what I already mentioned as maybe worst problem in this approach |
| 14:54.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | see above "make damn sure your NOLO/Xloader will work with the new key in ROMBL" |
| 14:55.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: hmm? |
| 14:57.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: http://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG0QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fe2e.ti.com%2Fcfs-file.ashx%2F__key%2FCommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files%2F353%2F7416.MT29C4G48MAZAPAKQ_2D00_5-IT_5F00_Micron-168_2D00_Ball-NAND-Flash-and-LPDDR-PoP-_2800_TI-OMAP_2900_-MCP.pdf&ei=iNc0UPGaAuqk4ASu64CABw&usg=AFQjCNEhPq6ICqDMejrYR7F8IJe7NPkIZA&cad=rja |
| 14:57.38 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer05: the Wikipedia page drawing is slightly misleading |
| 14:58.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, is it? |
| 14:58.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | is the SoC of smaller size than the PoPt? |
| 14:58.49 | javispedro | it is entirelly correct =) |
| 14:58.53 | javispedro | but yes, the SoC is smaller |
| 14:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think so, since the outer pad "ring" on PCBA is same pitch and 3 rows wide |
| 15:00.09 | javispedro | the diagram on sprabb3.pdf is more clear IMHO |
| 15:00.22 | javispedro | (it is the same though, I was just confused by wikipedia's one) |
| 15:00.45 | javispedro | basically, SoC's package is smaller, it is just pre-soldered on a PCB. |
| 15:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeek sprabb3.pdf ?? |
| 15:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like spruf98d |
| 15:01.03 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer05: no, goog it. |
| 15:02.22 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, got a new build of sowatch for me yet? |
| 15:02.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Fig.1 looaks absolutely identical |
| 15:02.31 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: which version are you using? |
| 15:02.38 | GeneralAntilles | An old one. |
| 15:02.54 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: http://depot.javispedro.com/metawatch/sowatch/sowatch_0.4.1_armel.deb |
| 15:03.31 | GeneralAntilles | 0.3.1 |
| 15:03.36 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer05: you mean Fig2? |
| 15:03.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that too |
| 15:04.09 | javispedro | <javispedro> (it is the same though, I was just confused by wikipedia's one) =) |
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| 15:07.58 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, aweeesomeeee |
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| 15:14.28 | sambo7 | nandtester here,is it possible to extract the stuff that was erased by nandtesting from a working device & "import" it into the broken one without soldering? |
| 15:16.27 | Estel_ | cold flash isn't exactly that? |
| 15:16.35 | Estel_ | (see maemo's wiki for cold flashing) |
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| 15:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: see Estel_^^^ |
| 15:30.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: how would you "import" on a device that doesn't even boot NOLO? |
| 15:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | beyond that, find a nandread image of CAL partiton on maemo.cloud-7.de |
| 15:31.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | beware, I never dared to test restoring such image via nandwrite |
| 15:32.00 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, love the update. |
| 15:32.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ gan |
| 15:32.16 | GeneralAntilles | 'Morning |
| 15:33.38 | sambo7 | I treid the cold flash procedure...the deivce does load the temporary bootloader...but that's all it does...found a version of phoenix, but won't be able to test before friday |
| 15:34.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: so if coldflash gives you semi-working device (bootable) but things like WLAN locale, WLAN MAC, BT MAC etc still fail due to erased CAL partition, feel free to try "importing" that CAL image to your CAL partition |
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| 15:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: talk to jacekowski about coldflashing. It's not exactly trivial, and I think you will need several consecutive steps to recover from your overkill damage |
| 15:37.44 | sambo7 | device doesn't boot properly-get's stuck after loading the bootloader...jacekowski said that it's maybe to recover with the phoenix sw |
| 15:38.00 | javispedro | Pali also knows about coldflashing |
| 15:38.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically coldflashing should just flash the xloader&NOLO combo to the mtd0 partition, then this standard NOLO should be able to flash the rest like usual |
| 15:38.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. your device isn't supposed to work immediately after coldflashing |
| 15:39.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just restored to a state where you can do a normal flashing |
| 15:39.10 | sambo7 | is the dd_if=mtd1ro.bin the CAL image? |
| 15:39.19 | Pali | when coldflashing, flasher send omap peripheral boot message to bootrom, then flasher send 2nd xloader image and omap bootrom will start that 2nd image |
| 15:39.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | one of them, yes |
| 15:39.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are others, done by different tools |
| 15:39.54 | Pali | 2nd image waiting for some nokia x.loader messages on usb. one message is "send nolo" |
| 15:40.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I seem to recall in the end a diff shown 0 differences |
| 15:40.24 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@h196.natout.aau.dk) |
| 15:40.31 | Pali | flasher will send nolo and and 2nd image will flash both 2nd and nolo to nand bootloader partition and 2nd will reboot device |
| 15:41.02 | Pali | so coldflashing erasing and writing new 2nd+nolo to bootloader nand partition |
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| 15:41.15 | Pali | I'm rewriting 0xFFFF code |
| 15:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, yes. If I parsed that correctly |
| 15:41.33 | Pali | it will support more options |
| 15:41.47 | Pali | full support of fiasco images (generating, unpacking) |
| 15:41.56 | Pali | also cold flashing |
| 15:41.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 15:42.17 | Pali | I have some dumps of Mk II flashing protocol, so maybe this will be implemented too |
| 15:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves and heads out for a shower. Not that the mere temperature is as insane as last 2 days |
| 15:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~weather eddn |
| 15:42.48 | Pali | (Mk II is used for flashing eMMC, but support everything except rootfs) |
| 15:42.59 | javispedro | Pali: does N900's x-loader or nolo verify any signature? |
| 15:43.04 | Pali | also it support flashing when maemo is running |
| 15:43.22 | Pali | javispedro, only omap bootrom checking for x-loader/2nd signature |
| 15:43.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: afaik not |
| 15:43.27 | Pali | nolo is unsigned on n900 |
| 15:43.38 | javispedro | Pali: and the key for that is on omap's e-fuses? |
| 15:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | but ROMBL is verifying sig of xloader/NOLO |
| 15:44.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, that can't be entirely true since you can patch NOLO |
| 15:44.20 | Pali | no idea how device checking signature |
| 15:44.28 | Pali | it is not written in omap trm |
| 15:44.28 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-123-112-1-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 15:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | it allegedly is |
| 15:44.43 | javispedro | I know that there's a 4x4byte e-fuse block with a sha1sum |
| 15:44.47 | javispedro | I don't know if it's used for anything |
| 15:45.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski mentioned efuse |
| 15:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | in TrustZone context |
| 15:45.18 | javispedro | (I don't even know how to read it from userspace... but it should be possible) |
| 15:45.44 | Pali | I will write pancake to release new version of 0xFFFF. I fixed support for fiasco and it should be new stable version |
| 15:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, THAT is a topic for our thumbhacker |
| 15:45.59 | Pali | and version where will be coldflash support will be released later... |
| 15:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: can efuse be read from userland? |
| 15:46.16 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer05: more like a deadlock for the above's proposed SoC change unless you use fresh-from-factory SoCs |
| 15:46.22 | javispedro | *s/deadlock/roadblock |
| 15:46.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 15:47.50 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: be sure to mention any problems ;P |
| 15:48.03 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I looked on nokia phoenix and it using NOLO interface for flashing |
| 15:48.11 | Pali | also sending 2nd for coldflashing |
| 15:48.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: maybe we'd need to create our own palmpre-xloader&NOLO image to make that SoC boot |
| 15:48.17 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, the watch list probably needs a titlebar of some kind. |
| 15:48.42 | Pali | also using fiasco images (for rx-51) |
| 15:48.44 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, enhancement request: Ability to select font sizes for watchlets. |
| 15:48.54 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer05: palmpre's stock bootloader, bootie, is open enough (more open than nolo's fwiw) |
| 15:49.04 | Pali | so if phoenix has support for writing to CAL it must use 2nd or NOLO for that |
| 15:49.38 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 15:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 15:49.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless they go JTAG |
| 15:50.13 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: not many choices |
| 15:50.19 | sambo7 | the problem was that after the device responded to the first command "flasher-3.5 -c -h RX-51:2101 -2 2nd.bin-RX-51\:2101\,2102\,2103 -s secondary.bin-RX-51\:2101\,2102\,2103 -S usb" |
| 15:50.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | which would mean they need special fixture for phoenix |
| 15:50.47 | sambo7 | it didn't respond to "flasher-3.5 -F image.bin --flash-only=nolo -f" because usb connection was lost |
| 15:50.47 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: the font is 12pt, at 10.5pt it is also legible (but not at 10 or 9pt, for example 'i's already look horrible) |
| 15:50.58 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: all of the other fonts are caps-only |
| 15:51.09 | Pali | sambo7, use: flasher-3.5 -h RX-51:2101 -F <fiasco_image> -c -S usb |
| 15:51.15 | *** join/#maemo valeriusM (~user@46.41.117.177) |
| 15:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: sure, you need to reboot |
| 15:51.20 | Pali | this should cold flash full fiasco image |
| 15:51.34 | Pali | for specified hw rev |
| 15:52.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr, you even should flash NOLO in first cmd I'd guess |
| 15:52.06 | sambo7 | Pali without the1st command "flasher-3.5 -c -h RX-51:2101 -2 2nd.bin-RX-51\:2101\,2102\,2103 -s secondary.bin-RX-51\:2101\,2102\,2103 -S usb" ? |
| 15:52.08 | javispedro | ponders if stock fremantle boots with zero'd config partition |
| 15:52.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the 1 mio dollar question |
| 15:52.53 | Pali | javispedro, default maemo kernel - NO |
| 15:53.17 | Pali | nolo read partition table from CAL and pass it via ATAG to kernel |
| 15:53.19 | *** join/#maemo sLumPia (~sLumPia@182.15.205.146) |
| 15:53.33 | Pali | maemo kernel does not have hardcoded partition table |
| 15:53.36 | javispedro | oh, though it was hardcoded on nolo |
| 15:53.42 | javispedro | or kernel :) |
| 15:53.43 | Pali | meego (and upstream) kernel yes |
| 15:53.56 | Pali | javispedro, maybe there is hardcoded in NOLO |
| 15:54.07 | Pali | but in CAL is partition table too |
| 15:54.11 | javispedro | :/ |
| 15:54.24 | Pali | maybe it is time to create WIKI page about CAL partition |
| 15:54.34 | Pali | what all and in which format is written in CAL |
| 15:54.52 | Pali | (e.g. where is stored partition table, where wifi mac address, ...) |
| 15:54.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: if Pali is right (no doubt he is) you don't need any other command |
| 15:55.28 | sambo7 | Will try that later, after back home from sports...already excited |
| 15:55.28 | Pali | sambo7, only that one command: flasher-3.5 h RX-51:2101 -F <fiasco> -c -S usb |
| 15:55.29 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@31.23.229.25) |
| 15:55.42 | Pali | also make sure, you have usb 1.x port |
| 15:55.47 | Pali | I have problems with usb 3.0 |
| 15:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: please spellcheck |
| 15:56.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | flasher-3.5 h RX-51:2101 ? |
| 15:56.22 | sambo7 | ok,will definitely try that later....having my fingers crossed |
| 15:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | flasher-3.5 -h RX-51:2101 maybe |
| 15:56.37 | Pali | yes |
| 15:56.38 | Pali | -h |
| 15:56.54 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I'd take a caps-only. |
| 15:56.56 | Pali | flasher-3.5 -h RX-51:2101 -F <fiasco> -c -S usb |
| 15:57.25 | sambo7 | if I only nandtested with a -k I wouldn't have got into that mess |
| 15:57.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah :-S |
| 15:57.51 | Pali | and sending 2nd image working if battery is empty (on charger) too |
| 15:58.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | on the bright side, if you recover from this, you're kind of a hero |
| 15:58.25 | Pali | but flashing other parts (kernel, rootfs) from NOLO not working... |
| 15:58.55 | sambo7 | ok,will be back later guys...need to go & do some sports---thanks a lot |
| 15:58.57 | Pali | if battery is empty after coldflashing usb icon will blink |
| 15:59.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, charged battery is MANDATORY |
| 15:59.11 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, actually, I think screen resolution may be a partial answer to Pebble's bigger following. |
| 15:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: you amaze me with your knowledge |
| 16:00.05 | Pali | if uboot will be bootable from x-loader/2nd and battery charging will be in u-boot we can charge empty battery with coldflashing... |
| 16:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | long pending plan |
| 16:00.38 | vi_ | does anyone know how to make charge21.sh script use 950mA? |
| 16:00.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: check maemo.cloud-7.de |
| 16:00.58 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: ignoring the entire e-paper crap (which people still believe seemingly), I am indeed intrigued by their higher specs |
| 16:01.15 | GeneralAntilles | Looks like a monster to wear on the wrist, though. |
| 16:01.31 | Pali | I have some problems with u-boot SPL (something like x-loader, bootloader for u-boot)... but I was able to write something to serial console in n900 qemu |
| 16:02.21 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: I am looking, cannot see charge21.sh |
| 16:02.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 16:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/ |
| 16:02.54 | Pali | but when u-boot spl will be working (it is small image) we can replace nolo - but without flashing support... |
| 16:02.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | 500mA |
| 16:03.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: I haven't tested it, but should just work |
| 16:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | diff to original to see what I changed |
| 16:04.20 | Pali | btw, can somebody provide some flashing dumps? I have LD_PRELOAD library for flasher-3.5 which print info usefull for RE flashing |
| 16:04.40 | Pali | If somebody has different HW revs (not 2101) it will be usefull |
| 16:05.23 | Pali | in new prepaired version of 0xFFFF only loading, sending and image is missing... |
| 16:05.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: I always thought ShadowJK's original already uses 950mA |
| 16:05.43 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@91.182.10.79) |
| 16:05.45 | Pali | *flashing |
| 16:06.50 | vi_ | brb |
| 16:07.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | bbl |
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| 16:17.07 | HtheB | pali |
| 16:17.14 | Pali | hi |
| 16:17.17 | HtheB | Pali |
| 16:17.20 | HtheB | hi |
| 16:17.33 | HtheB | We try to upgrade our N900 ram |
| 16:17.46 | HtheB | u think it will be possible by changing the onenand |
| 16:17.55 | HtheB | and the thing that lays under it? :p |
| 16:18.48 | HtheB | we were talking about this for some hours now |
| 16:19.28 | Pali | replacing n900 ram? |
| 16:19.37 | HtheB | yeah |
| 16:19.54 | HtheB | upgrading to 1GB |
| 16:20.14 | HtheB | the only thing we want to know is where to get some parts |
| 16:20.28 | HtheB | we found out that the palm pre plus uses the same as N900 |
| 16:20.34 | HtheB | but it has 512MB ram |
| 16:20.51 | HtheB | its at least double more than the N900 |
| 16:21.24 | HtheB | so, if we can find one with 1GB, i like to sacrifice my N900 to do the job |
| 16:21.38 | HtheB | if that works out, i think many others will follow :)) |
| 16:22.58 | wmarone | well, "many" |
| 16:23.07 | wmarone | swapping out a PoP isn't exactly easy ;p |
| 16:24.02 | wmarone | only reason I would consider it is because we have SMD rework stations here |
| 16:26.07 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 16:26.33 | Psotnick | If I want to compile something in scratchbox I should use FREMANTLE_ARMEL? |
| 16:27.11 | *** join/#maemo valeriusM (~user@31.23.91.4) |
| 16:27.32 | HtheB | Estel_ |
| 16:27.35 | HtheB | what about Motorola Milestone XT800 |
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| 17:10.11 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: maemo-pan doesn't appear to have been updated since OS2008, so I guess I'll look into porting it after reading the tmo topic you also linked if that does point me to something working properly on maemo5 (icd2 plugin; like usb networking) |
| 17:11.25 | zeq | s/does /doesn't / |
| 17:13.34 | ShadowJK | maemo-pan for os2008 was about using pan on another phone for internet access, right? |
| 17:13.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: good plan |
| 17:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | the thread seems up to date |
| 17:14.59 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@f053144169.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:16.39 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: I've only had a quick look at it, it seemed to be about a script to set things up for a PAN server |
| 17:16.44 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki__ (~slau@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 17:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | PAN is bidir |
| 17:17.11 | zeq | ShadowJK: yes PAN client |
| 17:17.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | like ethernet |
| 17:17.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 17:17.28 | zeq | yes, a 'bnep0' device |
| 17:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | so a server is just offering DHCP etc |
| 17:17.35 | zeq | as I recall |
| 17:18.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you want a client, just tear down/kick out the server related parts |
| 17:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and add standard IP routing |
| 17:18.48 | zeq | would be nice to have it working with icd integration though |
| 17:19.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly feasible |
| 17:19.50 | zeq | it seems it was working for OS2008, but used the "dummy" device as the usb net used to on m5 |
| 17:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 17:20.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | dummy still same I'd guess |
| 17:20.56 | zeq | I'll take a look at the usb net code and see if I can integrate it with the OS2008 BTPAN manager |
| 17:21.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | whole ICD hasn't changed regarding setip of connections |
| 17:21.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves and runs for shopping |
| 17:21.45 | zeq | see you later DocScrutinizer05 |
| 17:22.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | lives in a stupid part of the world where every shop is closed after 20:00 |
| 17:23.12 | teotwaki__ | I hear people on the other side of the Berliner Mauer can go to 20:15! Imagine that, DocScrutinizer05! |
| 17:23.35 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: gas station |
| 17:23.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | no milk |
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