| 00:00.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | basicaly why not |
| 00:00.12 | jon_y | cool, so feature request? :) |
| 00:00.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess the _real_uBoot_ already has a command for that |
| 00:00.47 | jon_y | I find it hard to debug sometimes when the back light does not turn on after a too fast reboot |
| 00:00.52 | jon_y | not sure why its off |
| 00:01.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | however, since during uBoot probably charging isn't enabled at all, you may ponder twice if you want to increase battery load by backlight |
| 00:01.43 | jon_y | hmm, good point |
| 00:02.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | finally off to mobile_mode for a beer |
| 00:02.32 | jon_y | I guess I can leave the phone off while charging |
| 00:02.45 | jon_y | and then attempt to boot it after battery is chareged a bit |
| 00:03.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no such thing like 'off' while charging |
| 00:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a thing called act_dead though |
| 00:03.40 | jon_y | the mode when you power off the phone from the menu? |
| 00:03.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | which basically is just another init runlevel |
| 00:04.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it enters act_dead as soon as you plug in the charger |
| 00:04.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it been off |
| 00:04.15 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:04.42 | jon_y | so if battery is dead and I insert a fresh battery, what happens there? |
| 00:04.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | it boots up way beyond stage of uBoot |
| 00:05.10 | jon_y | ah ok, normal boot up |
| 00:05.34 | jon_y | so act_dead is the closest thing to a switched off n900? |
| 00:05.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, sorry. what do you mean by "insert new battery"? what shall happen? |
| 00:05.58 | jon_y | I was wondering if it really boots up into some init level to wait for the battery charger |
| 00:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, basically act_dead is closest thing to switched off N900 whenever you got any charging device attached to USB. Still act_dead is way more close to a fully booted and running device than to a off device |
| 00:07.10 | jon_y | ok, act_dead is handled by nolo? |
| 00:07.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's not waiting for charger, the charger actually switches on the device |
| 00:07.31 | jon_y | ah ok, good to know |
| 00:07.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | off without charger actually is off |
| 00:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | with charger attached though the device is either on with display, or on without display aka act_dead |
| 00:08.18 | jon_y | if nolo is handling act_dead, might be fine for uboot to always on the backlight |
| 00:08.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, act_dead is a linux runlevel |
| 00:08.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like init 2 or sth |
| 00:09.16 | jon_y | oh |
| 00:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could even have the device update via WLAN while "off" and charging |
| 00:09.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | see /etc/mce/mce.ini |
| 00:09.52 | jon_y | how does it enter act_dead before uboot loads the kernel? |
| 00:09.57 | jon_y | sounds magic |
| 00:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't |
| 00:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOLO hands some bootreason up to kernel |
| 00:10.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel decides whether to enter act_dead or rather do "normal" bootup to init 3 |
| 00:11.25 | jon_y | hmm |
| 00:12.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | the only situation where charger won't boot right into linux is flatbatrecover |
| 00:13.07 | jon_y | so, the kernel is actually loaded when the charger is plugged in, and that's before uboot |
| 00:13.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can tell from steady amber (the slowly flashing amber LED is already made by software controlling the LP5523 chip) |
| 00:13.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, that's abfter uBoot |
| 00:13.50 | jon_y | ok, I tend to associate uboot with the kernel selector menu, am I wrong? |
| 00:14.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | the sequence is ROMBL->xloader->NOLO->(uboot->)linuxkernel |
| 00:14.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and linuxkernel then starts charging |
| 00:14.44 | jon_y | ah so the uboot payload kernel is in control then? |
| 00:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 00:15.06 | jon_y | that explains a lot |
| 00:15.48 | jon_y | explicit backlight on when keyboad slider is out then? :) |
| 00:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds ane |
| 00:16.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | sane* |
| 00:16.30 | jon_y | when does pali come in usually? |
| 00:16.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't show any regular schedule |
| 00:17.28 | jon_y | ok, I'll forward the request about uboot when I see him |
| 00:18.09 | jon_y | btw, do Android phones do the same with the act_dead stuff? |
| 00:18.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible |
| 00:18.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I never touched any android phone yet |
| 00:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically no device is charging in system-off state |
| 00:19.09 | jon_y | me neither, they're blasphemous :) |
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| 00:19.47 | jon_y | ok, so dead battery means extremely bricked phone if there are no battery replacements? |
| 00:19.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since user expects feedback about charging(-progress) |
| 00:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | not yet |
| 00:20.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 00:20.17 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 00:20.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-04 02:12:32] <DocScrutinizer05> the only situation where charger won't boot right into linux is flatbatrecover |
| 00:20.53 | jon_y | hmm, how does flatbatrecover work? |
| 00:21.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | the bq24150 battery manager chip will try to charge battery to a state where system is able to boot |
| 00:21.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can tell that from steady amber LED |
| 00:21.44 | jon_y | steady instead of varying? |
| 00:22.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | this 'emergency charging' is restricted to a max bat voltage of 3.7V though |
| 00:22.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 00:22.20 | jon_y | all of this is good info, thanks a bunch DocScrutinizer05 |
| 00:22.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 00:22.41 | jon_y | does it work with USB charging from a laptop/desktop? |
| 00:22.50 | jon_y | or does it require the Nokia wallcharger? |
| 00:22.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | flatbat? nope |
| 00:23.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | requires Nokia wallcharger with D+- short |
| 00:23.27 | jon_y | any modified USB with D+- short will do? |
| 00:23.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, it won't charge at any reasonable rate without, iirc |
| 00:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 00:23.39 | jon_y | I have one on my laptop |
| 00:24.00 | jon_y | that "charging port" is working even with the laptop off |
| 00:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | carefully splitting the cable mantle and shorting white with green wire will do |
| 00:24.59 | jon_y | not that hard to do with easy to find micro usb cables |
| 00:25.17 | jon_y | once again, thanks for the awesome infos |
| 00:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I even improvised a charger by shorting the 2 middle contacts of USB-F with a patch of alu foil |
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| 00:25.48 | jon_y | I'll need to look at the USB pinouts |
| 00:26.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | D+ and D- are the midlle two of all 4 pin USB |
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| 00:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | the outer contacts are +5V and GND |
| 00:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 00:26.48 | jon_y | ok, good to know |
| 00:27.05 | jon_y | now I'm curious how it enters data mode when shorted |
| 00:37.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | 022705 <jon_y> now I'm curious how it enters data mode when shorted)) not at all? obviously |
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| 00:44.29 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer51: well, according to wikipedia, there is another called Downstream Charping Port |
| 00:44.43 | jon_y | I guess I have one of those on my laptop |
| 00:45.00 | jon_y | since I worked with usbnet over it before |
| 00:46.02 | jon_y | according to the harmattan flasher, it is a hub'ed USB port, so flashing tends to fail |
| 00:46.09 | jon_y | maemo flasher was fine though |
| 00:46.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | those so called cahrging USB ports usually are just delivering 5V also wehn PC is suspended or even off |
| 00:47.01 | jon_y | other USB ports tend to cause the n900 to say "Not enough power for charging" |
| 00:47.09 | jon_y | ok, that makes sense too |
| 00:47.57 | jon_y | I'm lacking any hackerspace to probe it |
| 00:49.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | you could probe with arbitrary USB stuff that has a LED that's permanently on |
| 00:50.02 | jon_y | a USB mouse |
| 00:50.30 | jon_y | yes, its on |
| 00:50.38 | jon_y | looks like you're right |
| 00:51.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | the charging ports also *might* implement soe cruft to deliver up to 1 or 2A and some ay to signal that. |
| 00:51.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's however not detected or even probed by N900 |
| 00:51.37 | jon_y | how much is the usual current draw? |
| 00:51.53 | jon_y | 5v 900mA? |
| 00:51.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | 0.5A max |
| 00:52.45 | jon_y | likewise for flatbatrecover? |
| 00:53.15 | jon_y | I noticed the Nokia wallcharger charges faster, or maybe it was my imagination |
| 00:54.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | USB vbus supply: 100mA max without any special voodoo |
| 00:54.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | 500mA max after ENUM over data |
| 00:55.02 | jon_y | I was planning to build an external battery pack with simple wires |
| 00:55.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | 'unlimited' for fastchargers signalled by D+- short |
| 00:55.20 | jon_y | so, it needs some logic to start charging? |
| 00:55.35 | jon_y | ah ok, short D+- and be done with it |
| 00:55.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 00:56.00 | jon_y | probably a good idea to to limit current to 1A, and a voltage regulator to 5v |
| 00:56.10 | jon_y | don't want no burning battery pack :) |
| 00:56.15 | ShadowJK_ | As for external battery pack, to charge N900, just short D+ and D-, and make sure your switchmode converter or whatever can provide enough current |
| 00:56.29 | jon_y | ShadowJK_: 1A is fine? |
| 00:56.33 | ShadowJK_ | yes |
| 00:56.54 | jon_y | nice, looks simple enough to step around a few 9V batteries |
| 00:57.43 | ShadowJK_ | Amusing trivia, my always-on PC has 6 usb ports. Only 2 of them can reliably charge N900, those 2 are on a PCI bracket. The pci bracket is connected to motherboard straight, but it also includes 2 capacitors on the +5V/GND rails. :-) |
| 00:58.05 | ShadowJK_ | 9V is pointless, they don't store any energy worthwhile |
| 00:58.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | you might get away with 3 alkaline cells in series |
| 00:58.22 | jon_y | what's with the caps? bounce control? |
| 00:58.43 | ShadowJK_ | Stability? |
| 00:58.56 | jon_y | I was thinking 4x9v in parallel |
| 00:59.04 | ShadowJK_ | That's just stupid |
| 00:59.15 | ShadowJK_ | 6 x aa in parallell makes more sense |
| 00:59.17 | ShadowJK_ | uh |
| 00:59.18 | jon_y | not sure if it'll hold more charge than 1.5v in series in weight |
| 00:59.20 | ShadowJK_ | and in series :) |
| 00:59.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | or 4 NiMH cells |
| 00:59.50 | ShadowJK_ | 9V is very expensive on energy per cost basis |
| 01:00.03 | jon_y | well, the most important parts is getting the cells cheaply and easily :) |
| 01:00.07 | ShadowJK_ | You only use 9V batteries when space is a premium |
| 01:00.19 | jon_y | I'll remember that |
| 01:00.22 | ShadowJK_ | Otherwise, AAA and AA |
| 01:00.31 | jon_y | how about those giant 6V cells? :) |
| 01:00.44 | ShadowJK_ | fine |
| 01:00.52 | ShadowJK_ | But disposables are meh |
| 01:01.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | use 4 NiMH batteries in series and profit |
| 01:01.14 | jon_y | yeah, I should since they're pretty common |
| 01:01.50 | ShadowJK_ | 6 or 8 AA in series, feeding a buck converter feeding n900 |
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| 01:02.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | eh buck converter |
| 01:02.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh even ;-) |
| 01:02.56 | jon_y | while browsing random parts catalog, wtf is a battery authenticator??? |
| 01:02.58 | ShadowJK_ | Amusingly, I made a contraption for charging off of Li-Ion battery packs, and my biggest issue was that the USB extension cable I cannibalized used such thin wires, that I lost alot of power on that alone |
| 01:03.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | 4 * 1.2 |
| 01:03.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | 4* 1.44 |
| 01:03.39 | ShadowJK_ | 4 * 0.8 is the variable I consider |
| 01:03.54 | jon_y | gotta use car jumper cables for better efficiency :) |
| 01:04.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK_: for your cable? |
| 01:05.17 | jon_y | I assume it was from power loss due to the crappy cable resistance |
| 01:05.41 | ShadowJK_ | jon_y, ues |
| 01:05.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK_: I'm talking about 4.8 .. 5.7V on USB |
| 01:06.20 | ShadowJK_ | DocScrutinizer, no I mean most generally available AA nimh will collapse to 0.8...1.1V at 1A load |
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| 01:06.43 | ShadowJK_ | Not when new, of course, but subjected to half dozen cycles of abuse, they will |
| 01:06.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | duh what? |
| 01:06.59 | ShadowJK_ | So 4xAA direct is kinda dubious imo |
| 01:07.14 | ShadowJK_ | because you wont be able to get much energy out of the batteries before the voltage drops too low |
| 01:07.41 | jon_y | how do D cells compare to AA? |
| 01:07.52 | ShadowJK_ | they hold more energy |
| 01:07.55 | jon_y | have you tried some joule thief setup? |
| 01:08.01 | jon_y | its really hard to get it right |
| 01:08.46 | jon_y | its a high frequency DC-DC converter, iirc MHz range the last time I tried to design one |
| 01:09.13 | jon_y | it should suck the battery until it is dead |
| 01:09.21 | jon_y | deader than dead |
| 01:09.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's a buck converter |
| 01:09.39 | ShadowJK_ | Most "joule thief" things forget that the battery they're trying to use is only able to provide X watts, and you can get this X watts a X = Volts * Amps, if you have a 100% efficient converter. |
| 01:09.49 | ShadowJK_ | Nah joule thief is boost :P |
| 01:10.05 | ShadowJK_ | unregulated boost even |
| 01:10.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | :nod: |
| 01:10.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | buck/boost whatever |
| 01:10.32 | jon_y | heh, I was having trouble controling the available current |
| 01:11.01 | ShadowJK_ | Even if a battery has energy left, it isn't able to provide that energy at a fast rate |
| 01:11.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | joule thief however sounds like the right name, taking into account efficiency of such a buck/boost |
| 01:12.01 | ShadowJK_ | lol |
| 01:12.02 | jon_y | yeah, probably not worth the complication |
| 01:12.26 | ShadowJK_ | The original joule thief itself probably runs at around 90+% efficiency |
| 01:12.46 | ShadowJK_ | but it's "regulated" by the discharge into a LED |
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| 01:12.54 | RST38h | yawns |
| 01:13.24 | ShadowJK_ | Anyways |
| 01:13.33 | ShadowJK_ | I have 3 different setups |
| 01:13.50 | ShadowJK_ | 1.5V -> 5V, 3V -> 5V, 7-18V -> 5V |
| 01:14.08 | ShadowJK_ | Coincidentally, that's also in order of efficiency, with least efficient first |
| 01:15.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | there has to be a reason why tool batteries are 6 cell, 7 cell, 10 cell |
| 01:15.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | rather than nn Ah |
| 01:16.27 | ShadowJK_ | Fewer amps are easier to handle |
| 01:16.58 | ShadowJK_ | For power tools, the added complexity of charging multicell packs is less than the pain of dealing with more amps on the motor driver side |
| 01:17.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | prolly |
| 01:17.58 | ShadowJK_ | (except for nicd and nimh packs, which you can just bruteforce charge, and then they die 6 months later, but warranty already expired so who cares lol) |
| 01:18.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's just amazing they seem to offer higher cellcount powerpacks for same tool |
| 01:18.40 | ShadowJK_ | The "charging" bit might be inside the pack |
| 01:18.51 | ShadowJK_ | A big part of it should be inside the pack |
| 01:19.03 | ShadowJK_ | If you want to avoid having 12-pin packs |
| 01:19.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm wondering bout the discharge |
| 01:20.48 | ShadowJK_ | The ones I have, have a IC controlling a few parallelled mosfets, if the voltage drops too low, or if the current is too high, the IC shuts down the fets |
| 01:23.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | and likewise they probably control their motors va PWM so it doesn't matter if that 18V or 21V or even 30 |
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| 01:29.26 | ShadowJK_ | Yes, most of them are brushed DC motors controlled by pwm |
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| 01:39.07 | LaoLang_cool | Hi, recaller sucks for call recording, too low quality |
| 01:39.24 | LaoLang_cool | any other recommended? |
| 01:42.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | recaller is unique, seen no update since years, and could use some improvements and bugfixes |
| 01:43.23 | ShadowJK_ | It's kinda interesting anyway, when I hear on radio interviews with people in the US that have been conducted over cellphone, the sound quality is absolutely atrocious |
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| 01:43.58 | ShadowJK_ | Similar situation in .fi, and the sound quality is only slightly worse than the radio station's own broadcast quality |
| 01:44.25 | ShadowJK_ | Maybe recaller was geared down to the quality benchmark of calls on US networks? dunno |
| 01:47.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | recaller needs some love from somebody like javispedro who actaully has a faint clue about audio routing and processing |
| 01:48.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | other than freerunner the N900 audio is mostly a white patch on the map |
| 01:49.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | spilled with bloody spots of blobs |
| 01:49.35 | LaoLang_cool | Is recaller open-source? |
| 01:49.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 01:49.50 | LaoLang_cool | I guess the author has been left from maemo |
| 01:50.05 | LaoLang_cool | And abandoned recaller :) |
| 01:50.25 | RiD | reads the highly dramatic story |
| 01:50.28 | RiD | cries |
| 01:51.09 | LaoLang_cool | recaller is good enough for normal voice recorder, but calling record sucks really, caller's voice sometimes is too low to hear |
| 01:51.57 | LaoLang_cool | And it doesn't auto-record skype's audio calling |
| 01:52.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | tom waelti |
| 01:52.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | nfc |
| 01:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | well the skype problem is easily fixed by adapting the dbus signals it listens to, but the recording path is quite a bit different for VoIP than it is for cmt based calls |
| 02:01.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | you (or recaller) need to tap the audio signal somewhere, on the way from source to destination. I guess that's been done by some method a guru from Nokia mumbled after his 3rd beer in a cloudy night |
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| 02:02.47 | RiD | http://5z8.info/illegal-guns-for-sale_q9r9rc_racist |
| 02:04.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: thanks but no thanks |
| 02:04.32 | jonwil | hi |
| 02:04.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: first warning |
| 02:04.54 | RiD | Ok |
| 02:06.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi jonwil |
| 02:07.38 | jonwil | I think my wl1251-cal work is good :) |
| 02:07.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
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| 02:10.25 | jonwil | later I will be cloning libcal |
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| 07:25.52 | Sicelo | anyone knows why yo can't ping 127.0.0.1 when a gprs/3g connection is active? |
| 07:26.04 | Sicelo | or is it just mine :\ |
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| 13:38.53 | jonwil | ~seen pali |
| 13:38.57 | infobot | pali <~pali@unaffiliated/pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 1d 6h 23m 32s ago, saying: 'jonwil has some more info about format'. |
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| 14:34.50 | qwazix | I want to remap the keyboard to have a second shift button. I've searched but I can only find how to remap symbols, not modifier keys, any pointers? |
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| 14:41.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, that's difficult |
| 14:41.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | assignment of keys to raw keycodes is on another level |
| 14:42.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that part is closed |
| 14:42.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | not sure about it |
| 14:44.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I once investigated a similar topic (showing modifier key lock-state [doublle-press] by indicator LED) and finally found out it's not feasible |
| 14:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | since you get a dbus-msg for locking the key, but none for unlocking it |
| 14:45.16 | qwazix | I saw that xmodmap might be the way to go |
| 14:45.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I've been told the code where locking happens is closed |
| 14:46.01 | qwazix | thanks, I'll try and report back |
| 14:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks |
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| 14:55.42 | qwazix | Doesn't seem to do anything on the N950, in fact it like disables the key |
| 14:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | for N950 please /join #harmattan. The info about stuff like that is massively different between fremantle and harmattan I'd guess |
| 14:58.06 | jonwil | yes definatly |
| 14:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | to make things worse, harmattan isn't really designed for a device with hw-kbd |
| 14:59.01 | Venemo_N9 | indeed |
| 14:59.04 | qwazix | yep, that is why I asked here, because N900 remapping works perfectly on the N950, in fact I am using a N900 keymap right now |
| 14:59.41 | trx | those keys are not native |
| 14:59.59 | qwazix | anyway I'll try it right now on the N900 too to see if it behaves similarly |
| 15:00.03 | trx | they arent sent in native key codes but via Qt's InputMethod |
| 15:00.23 | trx | maybe check that.. |
| 15:00.39 | DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ |
| 15:00.54 | qwazix | trx: I am trying to do that in a gtk application |
| 15:01.04 | trx | oh |
| 15:01.23 | trx | nfc then |
| 15:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, true crossover \o/ |
| 15:04.17 | Sicelo | silly question - you N900s allow to ping localhost when a gprs/3g connection is active? |
| 15:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think yes |
| 15:05.19 | qwazix | permission denied |
| 15:05.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: I seen your question, but been to lazy to *test* |
| 15:05.39 | qwazix | Sicelo, ^^ |
| 15:05.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | too* |
| 15:06.08 | Sicelo | qwazix: root should be able to. |
| 15:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 15:07.30 | Sicelo | for as long as i can remember localhost doesn't reply to ping on mine. i just find this strange. of course, without such a connection, it works normally |
| 15:08.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall users logging in via ssh root@127.0.0.1 |
| 15:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | never heard that ceases to work when you're on GPRS |
| 15:08.47 | javispedro | meh |
| 15:08.49 | Sicelo | it doesn't, i suppose .. let me try |
| 15:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: hey! :-d |
| 15:09.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 15:09.09 | Sicelo | works |
| 15:09.12 | javispedro | :) |
| 15:10.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: so if ssh 127.0.0.1 works, why should ping fail? unless IP stack doesn't support ping replies |
| 15:10.45 | Sicelo | that's the puzzle. :/ |
| 15:10.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | (which actually might be a good thing when on GPRS) |
| 15:11.05 | javispedro | a ping to localhost would be routed via loopback interface on any sane config, so wlan/3g/whatever will not have any influence |
| 15:11.09 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: meh, would that actually save battery? |
| 15:11.13 | kerio | it still receives them |
| 15:11.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want to answer pings from the internet when on 2/3G |
| 15:11.23 | Sicelo | agree with javispedro. |
| 15:11.30 | kerio | you don't want to receive them, either |
| 15:11.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yes, it might save battery |
| 15:12.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: 2/3G *config* of IP stack however might actually have an influence |
| 15:12.23 | Sicelo | on a side note, i never have to worry about pings from internet as i'm behind NAT anyway |
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| 15:13.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | javispedro: I dunno how to tell IP stack "don't answer ping ICMP" - but I guess it might be interface agnostic |
| 15:14.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | a ping to local NIC is rather meaningless anyway |
| 15:14.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, 127.0.0.1 is not even any NIC |
| 15:15.11 | Sicelo | :P |
| 15:17.32 | kerio | by the way, why doesn't busybox allow ping from user? |
| 15:17.34 | qwazix | Xmodmap has the same behaviour on N900 too, it just disables the key |
| 15:18.28 | Sicelo | kerio: suid thingies .. you can change the behaviour |
| 15:18.35 | kerio | Sicelo: nope |
| 15:18.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: anyway, just for you: confirmed |
| 15:18.42 | kerio | /bin/ping is a symlink to messybox |
| 15:18.48 | kerio | which is already suid root |
| 15:19.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: ping 127.0.0.1 fails on GPRS |
| 15:19.10 | kerio | wat |
| 15:19.11 | Sicelo | ah, thanks :) |
| 15:19.12 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ssh? |
| 15:19.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: while it works when on WIFI |
| 15:19.44 | Sicelo | i was worried that i had somehow messed something up in the past |
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| 15:20.59 | Sicelo | kerio: ssh localhost will work .. only ping seems to exhibit this behaviour. and, yes, you can toggle that suid bit to allow user to use ping. i have that setup on my N900 |
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| 15:24.08 | Sicelo | $ stat /usr/bin/ping |
| 15:24.24 | Sicelo | Access: (4755/-rwsr-xr-x) |
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| 15:33.09 | kerio | well, you have a better ping |
| 15:33.24 | kerio | i'm talking about /bin/ping :) |
| 15:34.15 | kerio | installing ping from the sdk repos and suiding it makes it work, ofc |
| 15:34.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't set +s a symlink afaik |
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| 15:35.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even if you did, it won't help much, since: see ~messybox ->su |
| 15:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | whole reason we got that gainroot abomination |
| 15:36.11 | kerio | heh |
| 15:36.17 | kerio | wait, why' |
| 15:36.18 | kerio | ? |
| 15:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ?? |
| 15:36.31 | Sicelo | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Oct 31 2011 /bin/ping -> /usr/bin/ping |
| 15:36.33 | kerio | the gainroot abomination is to enable root access only if the device is set in r&d mode |
| 15:36.46 | Sicelo | kerio: i have the very same ping you have |
| 15:36.48 | kerio | Sicelo: you don't even need that, /usr/bin is earlier in the path than /bin |
| 15:36.52 | kerio | Sicelo: nope |
| 15:37.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no |
| 15:37.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 15:37.09 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 15:37.17 | kerio | Sicelo: ping by default is a symlink to busybox |
| 15:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | su can't work with a semi safe busybox |
| 15:37.31 | kerio | /usr/bin/ping is in the "ping" package |
| 15:37.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's also the reason why sudo is NOT busybox |
| 15:37.55 | kerio | holy shit, i didn't know that |
| 15:38.04 | kerio | i thought it *was* suid root |
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| 15:38.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | wut? messybox +s? :-O God beware |
| 15:38.55 | kerio | well, that's how embedded systems do it, isn't it |
| 15:39.01 | kerio | well, they just run everything as root anyway |
| 15:39.21 | kerio | has sudo nopasswd enabled for user, because otherwise too much shit breaks |
| 15:39.25 | Sicelo | ok. guess i took it for granted |
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| 15:40.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and btw THAT is a immutable shortcoming of messybox that no messybox-DOUBLESUPERCOWPOWER will cure |
| 15:41.22 | kerio | what about a messybox-replacement that installs real tools? :D |
| 15:41.24 | Sicelo | this N900 has not seen a reflash in its life (except on the day it was bought) .. so i forget what i installed/tweaked/etc to get to the current setup |
| 15:41.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: that's caled bash4 + *-tools |
| 15:41.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/tools/utils/ |
| 15:42.10 | kerio | you mean *utils |
| 15:42.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: get my awesome apt wrapper! ;-D |
| 15:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 15:42.31 | infobot | from memory, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 15:42.42 | kerio | don't, it's useless if you have updated stuff correctly |
| 15:42.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: you'll never ever forget what you installed ;-) |
| 15:43.00 | kerio | oh, that other one |
| 15:43.07 | Sicelo | :P |
| 15:43.09 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's also dpkg --get-selections |
| 15:43.23 | Sicelo | that's one of the wiki pages i know by heart now |
| 15:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | the augmented version now even comes with timestamps ;-P |
| 15:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you can tell WHEN you installed something |
| 15:45.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat $HOME/installed-aps.sh |
| 15:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | FTW |
| 15:46.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and simply run that very $HOME/installed-aps.sh to reinstall everything |
| 15:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | convenient, isn't it? ;-) |
| 15:47.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: also known as dpkg --clear-selections && dpkg --set-selections < packagelist |
| 15:47.30 | kerio | and then apt-get install -f |
| 15:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: where are the timestamps? |
| 15:48.09 | kerio | meh, time is a cube anyway |
| 15:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and dpkg is a PITA ;-P |
| 15:49.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually apt-get is |
| 15:49.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/apt-get/apt/. |
| 15:51.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | will never get the catch why to mess with 3 or 4 or 15 commands - like apt-cache apt-get dpkg et al - to do one job: manage package installations |
| 15:51.30 | kerio | apt-cache involves the cache! |
| 15:51.39 | kerio | apt-get involves getting! and sometimes removing |
| 15:51.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't give a shit |
| 15:51.50 | kerio | apt-file involves files |
| 15:52.00 | kerio | which is clearly something the other two utilities don't involve |
| 15:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | failwhale |
| 15:52.48 | kerio | *cow |
| 15:52.55 | Sicelo | prefer yum? |
| 15:53.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 15:53.21 | kerio | apt can solve dependency sudoku |
| 15:53.38 | kerio | can yum do the same? |
| 15:53.45 | Sicelo | yes |
| 15:53.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and my microwave can make eggs go pooof |
| 15:53.54 | javispedro | good analogy. |
| 15:54.15 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer05: btw, upstream debian now has aptitude |
| 15:54.22 | kerio | by default? :O |
| 15:54.24 | kerio | madness |
| 15:54.31 | javispedro | yeah, by default. |
| 15:54.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is kinda yum in disguise (or the other way round) |
| 15:54.46 | javispedro | it's only like 20 times slower than apt-get here :) |
| 15:55.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, we got HAM for that ;-P |
| 15:55.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | it'd be rather more interesting to compare aptitude speed to yum |
| 15:55.32 | kerio | by the way, HAM stopped taking 12 minutes for his things, for some reason |
| 15:55.39 | kerio | the some reason could be that i disabled "show all packages" |
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| 15:55.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | X-P |
| 15:56.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | alias yum=aptitude |
| 15:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | will probably go unnoticed |
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| 15:57.56 | kerio | apt4rpm! |
| 15:58.00 | javispedro | meh, yum has install-file ;P |
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| 16:21.32 | zeq | I've put updated libc6 bits up on http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/sigmask |
| 16:23.10 | zeq | there's still the issue of of it needing to depend on a "Provides:" for the kernel support, and suitable headers. |
| 16:27.35 | kerio | kernel-feature-pselect? |
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| 16:29.27 | kerio | what happens if i stop bme and connect the wallcharger? |
| 16:33.36 | zeq | kerio: probably "kernel-feature-sigmask-syscalls" would be more accurate, but I'm open to suggestions. |
| 16:35.35 | kerio | discuss it with pali, i suppose |
| 16:35.44 | jon_y | hey guys, what does pselect do? |
| 16:35.48 | kerio | and/or merlin1991 |
| 16:36.00 | kerio | and/or freemangordon? |
| 16:36.07 | jon_y | ~pselect |
| 16:36.26 | kerio | jon_y: like select, but it allows to specify, atomically, a signal mask |
| 16:36.35 | jon_y | unix signals? |
| 16:36.48 | kerio | yep |
| 16:37.16 | jon_y | so I suppose its mainly advantageous for multithreaded apps? |
| 16:37.32 | kerio | how "solid" is the screen slide? |
| 16:38.14 | jon_y | pselect is related to the screen slide? |
| 16:38.26 | kerio | no, it's unrelated |
| 16:38.33 | kerio | why should it be related? |
| 16:38.42 | kerio | well, dbus uses pselect a lot, apparently |
| 16:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pselect is <reply>like select, but it allows to specify, atomically, a signal mask |
| 16:43.57 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 16:45.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-04 18:38:41] <kerio> well, dbus uses pselect a lot, apparently)) which might explain a lot of WTF to be seen everyday with dbus |
| 16:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that dbus would actually need any pselect() bug to be a POS |
| 16:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | there've been other races generic to dbus, that obviously were hard or even impossible to fix |
| 16:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I bet my ass that dbus on x86 isn't any better |
| 16:48.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably 50% of KDE4-WTF are due to dbus issues |
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| 17:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: have you checked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319729/comments/23 ? |
| 17:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn that's sad it takes us >2 years to get an upstream patch into consideration at least |
| 17:18.40 | kerio | heh |
| 17:25.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's even more sad that even those "experts" on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319729 didn't really think of any other impact than udev/upstart |
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| 18:46.54 | RST38h | Meanwhile: http://www.nature.com/news/human-cycles-history-as-science-1.11078 |
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| 20:09.40 | vi__ | WTS:1x950. Serous offers only. |
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| 20:57.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTS? |
| 20:57.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wts |
| 20:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf wts |
| 20:57.56 | jacekowski | want to sell |
| 20:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd bett you got better chances on ebay or at least tmo |
| 20:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn, I'm starting to go legastenic |
| 21:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, you probably should offer it over at #harmattan first (PC as far as PC goes here) |
| 21:03.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you want it to go to "the right guy" offer at #harmattan, if you want to get as much as it's worth, offer at ebay |
| 21:04.05 | jacekowski | are they even allowed to sell n950 |
| 21:04.17 | jacekowski | isn't that still nokia property on lease |
| 21:04.54 | jon_y | last I heard ebay has it for $2500 |
| 21:04.59 | piggz | im hoping nokia never asks for mine back.....its like owning a pieve of history! |
| 21:05.19 | piggz | to sell it would be like selling my soul! ;) |
| 21:05.34 | jon_y | yeah, I wouldn't want to sell it too if I had it |
| 21:05.41 | RST38h | so, piggz, how much is your soul? |
| 21:05.50 | jon_y | about $2500? |
| 21:05.51 | piggz | RST38h: 3000 :P |
| 21:06.14 | jon_y | can I trade my sould for yours? :) |
| 21:08.02 | piggz | couldnt do it ... 2500-3000 is really just a short term gain anyway :) |
| 21:08.57 | piggz | ive made more from sale of space invaders ;) |
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| 21:18.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: the CA ones are gifts |
| 21:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
| 21:19.01 | kerio | vi_: i'll buy it for 80€ |
| 21:19.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody had to sign anything to receive his CA gift, so why wouldn't you be allowed to sell it? |
| 21:19.41 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: bad form? |
| 21:19.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | bad form, oh well, yes |
| 21:20.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-04 23:01:25] <DocScrutinizer05> though, you probably should offer it over at #harmattan first (PC as far as PC goes here) |
| 21:20.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-04 23:03:08] <DocScrutinizer05> if you want it to go to "the right guy" offer at #harmattan, if you want to get as much as it's worth, offer at ebay |
| 21:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | regarding the statement re HARM it's almost the right thing to do |
| 21:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | like sending crown of west rome caeser to the east rome caesar |
| 21:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | "we don't need it anymore" |
| 21:25.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for one still have occasional use for it, via ssh and wlan, to confirm details on harmattan system when questions arise |
| 21:25.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | also for mechanical reference |
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| 21:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | so unless I'm in a pinch I won't sell mine (regardless of the fact I mustn't sell mine as it's a loaner anyway) |
| 21:27.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually there's some small hope for mer/nemo |
| 21:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I'm afraid I never could revert to stock harmattan once I tried mer/nemo |
| 21:28.34 | kerio | calibrating my battery again :3 |
| 21:28.42 | kerio | i can't get higher than -800mA |
| 21:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and so my N950 will stay what it is: probably the last and only n950 with original PR version in this universe |
| 21:29.01 | kerio | *lower |
| 21:29.12 | piggz | how do you calibrate a battery? |
| 21:29.38 | kerio | well, you calibrate the chip |
| 21:29.39 | kerio | on the battery |
| 21:30.46 | kerio | i mean |
| 21:30.50 | kerio | based on the battery |
| 21:31.08 | jacekowski | not on n900 |
| 21:31.18 | jacekowski | there are no chips in the battery |
| 21:31.19 | kerio | yes, on the n900 |
| 21:31.27 | kerio | the chip is on the n900 |
| 21:31.33 | jacekowski | it's stored in CAL |
| 21:31.39 | jacekowski | and it's BME job to do stuff with it |
| 21:31.39 | kerio | wut? |
| 21:31.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 21:31.47 | kerio | no, i'm talking about bq27200 |
| 21:31.55 | kerio | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1053809&postcount=846 here's a guide |
| 21:32.00 | kerio | made by doc's BFF |
| 21:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | bff? |
| 21:32.18 | kerio | best friend forever |
| 21:32.21 | kerio | :P |
| 21:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | pfffff |
| 21:32.38 | kerio | no, bff |
| 21:32.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | was almost about to click on it |
| 21:32.58 | piggz | cool, my playbook connects to internet via N9 + bluetooth |
| 21:34.13 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, it just says "charge fully and check that VDQ is 1, then drain the battery so it's below 3248mV for 15 seconds, stop bme or it'll fuck you up in the meantime" |
| 21:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you're following this witchcraft? |
| 21:34.37 | jacekowski | that thing isn't used anywhere |
| 21:34.44 | kerio | that's actually what ShadowJK_ said |
| 21:34.51 | jacekowski | bme is using only values from CAL |
| 21:35.07 | kerio | jacekowski: nobody actually uses bme, apart from the builtin battery indicator |
| 21:35.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | who cares about bme nowadays? |
| 21:35.32 | kerio | i'm waiting for pali to write his hald-addon-bme replacement that uses actual bq27k data |
| 21:37.02 | kerio | (and the new usbmode GUI that should replace the battery icon in the statusmenu, which is - frankly - useless) |
| 21:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict ho ever |
| 21:38.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much, can't stand it anymore |
| 21:39.25 | kerio | can't stand what? |
| 21:47.43 | merlin1991 | piggz: that is "cool" as soon as I can do it over n9 + usb |
| 21:48.18 | merlin1991 | in other words somebody has to explain me WTF this joikuspot kernel module does and how I can use it to achieve that :D |
| 21:48.35 | merlin1991 | and btw I've spent some time looking at the code (and kernel code) |
| 21:49.31 | RST38h | http://www.zdnet.com/why-intel-should-buy-nokia-7000002054/ |
| 21:49.33 | RST38h | ROTFL |
| 21:53.45 | kerio | meh, now the chip thinks my battery is 1500mAh |
| 21:53.51 | kerio | (from 1780) |
| 21:53.55 | kerio | i don't even :s |
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| 22:33.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | review appreciated: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh |
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| 22:56.11 | ZogG_laptop | vi_: you selling n950? sooo sad =\ |
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| 23:27.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | someone deparately searching for one would disagree |
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| 23:27.27 | Viltzu | vi_, I'll buy it |
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| 23:29.00 | Viltzu | Oh must offer |
| 23:29.33 | Viltzu | Well meh. I don't know what to offer so I'll pass ;P |
| 23:32.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Viltzu: you're out. vi_ said "only serious offers" |
| 23:33.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | so next one to fun-bid earns 24h +q (maybe more, depending on my time to remove the ban) |
| 23:34.27 | Viltzu | Huh. Well I didn't know that he was taking offers and didn't have any direct price for it. |
| 23:35.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-04 22:09:39] <vi__> WTS:1x950. Serous offers only. |
| 23:35.31 | Viltzu | Yes. But I just saw that Zog said that vi is selling the N950 :P |
| 23:36.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I took that into account, otherwise you already were +q |
| 23:37.05 | Viltzu | Well thanks :P |
| 23:37.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw :-) |
| 23:38.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | 01:38 3678 47 47 -340 541 541 541 65535 95 39 NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:1 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:0 |
| 23:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you wonder: 95 is TTE, so in 1:30 my calib-script should trigger charging |
| 23:40.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yawns a bit |
| 23:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you wonder: 01:38 is time of day |
| 23:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh, bq27 die temp went down from 40°C to 38°C during last 45min. No change in load though. I wonder if that's the delightful chill of the night, or actually something working with higher efficiency in N900 while battery volatge drops |
| 23:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK_: ^^^ one for you |
| 23:55.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or is this still the natural chillout from the 49°C it pushed it up by childspin? |