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| 00:24.06 | Woody14619 | ~hen |
| 00:24.07 | infobot | do ~hostmode and ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/ |
| 00:24.24 | Woody14619 | Hey, DocScrutinizer05... What's up with this ^^^ |
| 00:24.39 | RiD | ~hostmode |
| 00:24.39 | infobot | it has been said that hostmode is piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware! |
| 00:24.48 | RiD | ....o_o? |
| 00:25.12 | RiD | ~factinfo hostmode |
| 00:25.12 | infobot | error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) |
| 00:25.12 | infobot | hostmode -- created by MohammadAG <~MohammadA@62.219.120.20> at Mon May 10 21:17:16 2010 (812 days); last modified at Fri Jun 1 23:21:46 2012 by Estel_!~Estel@lagrange.cloud-7.de; it has been requested 68 times, last by RiD, 33s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer. |
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| 00:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: what's wrong with it? The link between estel and council? |
| 00:26.46 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, If you'd be so kind... nuke that ~hostmode "factinfo" |
| 00:26.51 | Woody14619 | Because Estel is not Council. |
| 00:26.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok |
| 00:27.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unlock hen |
| 00:27.02 | infobot | unlocking factoid hen, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 00:27.06 | Woody14619 | Hasn't been for a while. |
| 00:27.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | go ahead |
| 00:27.37 | Woody14619 | lol... I've no clue how to change things in infobot. :P |
| 00:27.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget hen |
| 00:27.46 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot hen |
| 00:27.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hen is a chick |
| 00:27.53 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 00:28.06 | Woody14619 | ~hostmode |
| 00:28.06 | infobot | i heard hostmode is piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware! |
| 00:28.12 | RiD | lol. |
| 00:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unlock hostmode |
| 00:28.34 | infobot | unlocking factoid hostmode, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 00:28.39 | Woody14619 | As long as it's attributed to Estel... :P |
| 00:29.06 | Woody14619 | I'd be curious when/where he said that... Doesn't supprise me frankly, but... :P |
| 00:29.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | he defined it for infobot |
| 00:29.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | like I do now |
| 00:29.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, hostmode is something estel abused |
| 00:29.51 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 00:31.15 | Woody14619 | June 1st? Really? Crack smoking.... :P |
| 00:31.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | unforget hostmode |
| 00:32.00 | Woody14619 | But yes, FYI: Estel is no longer Council. He announced his resignation on TMO and in meeting. http://maemo.org/community/council/community_council_meeting-july_13-2012/ |
| 00:32.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget hostmode |
| 00:32.02 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: cannot undeleted 'hostmode' because it already exists! |
| 00:32.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode |
| 00:32.11 | infobot | i heard hostmode is something estel abused |
| 00:32.12 | RiD | ~hen |
| 00:32.12 | infobot | from memory, hen is a chick |
| 00:32.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget hostmode |
| 00:32.24 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot hostmode |
| 00:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget hostmode |
| 00:32.35 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'hostmode'. Have fun now. |
| 00:32.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode |
| 00:32.39 | infobot | hostmode is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330 |
| 00:32.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAH! |
| 00:32.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock hostmode |
| 00:32.50 | infobot | locking factoid hostmode, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 00:33.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hen |
| 00:33.18 | infobot | i guess hen is a chick |
| 00:33.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget hen |
| 00:33.25 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot hen |
| 00:33.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget hen |
| 00:33.31 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'hen'. Have fun now. |
| 00:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hen |
| 00:33.35 | infobot | hmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 |
| 00:33.40 | Woody14619 | Thanks for the assist on that. :) |
| 00:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock hen |
| 00:33.41 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: locking factoid hen |
| 00:33.57 | RiD | i was about to define hen |
| 00:34.02 | RiD | but that one is just fine |
| 00:34.10 | RiD | i was doing a huge paragraph |
| 00:35.26 | Woody14619 | Can't believe I missed that for this long. Only reason I saw it was because someone highlighted me just above someone using it... |
| 00:38.54 | Woody14619 | K, off to get dinner. Thanks again Doc & RiD. :) |
| 00:39.08 | RiD | why thank me? |
| 00:39.13 | RiD | o_O |
| 00:39.33 | Woody14619 | you were willing to help (even if it was locked. ;) |
| 00:40.04 | Woody14619 | k, off to eat. Have a good night. |
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| 01:01.14 | Estel_ | lol, DocScrutinizer, why pinging me to death via factoid You've locked Yourself? :) |
| 01:01.46 | Estel_ | Woody14619, if You would actually read council mailist on times when I was council - there was actually a discussion about it, with ivgalvez and SD69 involved, IIRC |
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| 01:02.20 | Estel_ | I those stormy times I highlighted that DocScrutinizer locked this factoid in such state. |
| 01:02.34 | Estel_ | of course it doesn't surprise me, that You have no clue what hppened on council mailing list :) |
| 01:03.06 | erfdfsd | ~hen |
| 01:03.06 | infobot | hen is, like, hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 |
| 01:03.11 | erfdfsd | ~h-e-n |
| 01:03.12 | infobot | do ~hostmode and ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/ |
| 01:03.17 | erfdfsd | ~hostmode |
| 01:03.18 | infobot | hostmode is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330 |
| 01:03.50 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, might wan't to nuke ~h-e-n too, as now it suggets that Council created hostmode, which is covered in thread on TMO |
| 01:04.13 | Estel_ | just a little suggestion ;) |
| 01:12.29 | RiD | weren't you sleeping? |
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| 03:16.04 | jonwil | merlin1991: ping |
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| 04:55.51 | zeq1 | DocScrutinizer, freemangordon : dselect() is stable now, the test runs without problems and *MUCH* faster! To be expected I think. |
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| 04:57.47 | zeq1 | The locale problem is resolved, it stemmed from the configuration selecting -O3 optimization, which is much stronger with gcc-4.7. |
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| 06:28.15 | freemangordon | zeq1: sorry, too much noise in the channel logs, what was the preoblem? |
| 06:28.58 | freemangordon | and it seems I was disconnected an hour ago |
| 06:30.10 | zeq1 | Something in the locale code, possibly, although not necessarily related to Nokia's changes was miscompiling at -O3, which is the optimization default in the libc6 pkg. |
| 06:31.14 | zeq1 | it was okay with gcc-42, but then that has a much weaker O3. |
| 06:31.28 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 06:31.37 | freemangordon | what now, -O2? |
| 06:31.44 | zeq1 | yes |
| 06:31.57 | zeq1 | I don't see why it should be O3 anyway |
| 06:31.57 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 06:32.42 | zeq1 | better to try to keep the code tight and in cache |
| 06:32.53 | freemangordon | yes, sure |
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| 06:33.54 | zeq1 | anyway, the test ran without any problem, and much, much faster. |
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| 06:37.18 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I saw a fennec update in the repo, it seems to run okay. |
| 06:38.14 | zeq1 | or rather HAM saw it :) |
| 06:42.41 | freemangordon | zeq1: yeah, the one in the thumb repo is ok |
| 06:42.54 | Estel_ | morning, freezeq :) |
| 06:43.10 | freemangordon | morning |
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| 06:43.17 | zeq1 | morning Estel_ |
| 06:43.22 | zeq1 | :) |
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| 06:43.32 | freemangordon | zeq1: BTW there is some development on the bug, going to read it |
| 06:43.57 | freemangordon | hmm "Status: RESOLVED FIXED " |
| 06:44.00 | Estel_ | fennec! sure, I knew there is something elft that I had to test, but forget |
| 06:44.22 | zeq1 | freemangordon: can you paste the url? |
| 06:44.39 | Estel_ | just finished testing usb Mode and sending Pali bugs found |
| 06:44.44 | freemangordon | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778580 |
| 06:44.46 | povbot_ | 04Bug 778580: was not found. |
| 06:45.22 | zeq1 | Estel_: is the the new hostmode that lets you charge at the same time from external power? |
| 06:45.28 | Estel_ | BTw, messing with MCe is bitchy. I did something wrong, and I had situation, where my screen was *always* off - even after reboot - and every use of sldie emchanism was like with TV-out and external screen - status bar disappearing for a while, then appearing again |
| 06:45.45 | Estel_ | zeq, yea, although old hostmode allowed same thing |
| 06:45.57 | Estel_ | ne wone is jsut properly integrate dinto kernel, and have properly written GUI |
| 06:46.02 | zeq1 | it did? |
| 06:46.07 | Estel_ | hackish way |
| 06:46.21 | Estel_ | You needed to invoke "boostoff" from terminal, and then, invoke charging script |
| 06:46.28 | zeq1 | ah |
| 06:46.36 | Estel_ | say thanks to MohammadAG, who haven't found time for updating GUi in 3 years |
| 06:46.58 | Estel_ | that is why i'm extremely happy with usb Mode, as Pali is going to update it when needed, for sure |
| 06:47.15 | freemangordon | LOL, what a massive backout |
| 06:47.30 | freemangordon | zeq1: will you pull m-c? |
| 06:47.35 | zeq1 | sure |
| 06:48.16 | Estel_ | BTW, improved booston script used in current HEN was available for 18 months before, but again, no one wanted to update GUI. At the time when I was learning how to upload things to repositories, I announced, that I'm going to start with providing new version of HEN. MohammadAG got so scarred that I'm going to make a testbed of it, that he released update ;P |
| 06:48.45 | Estel_ | well, update was just like replacing 1 script in whole package, but still |
| 06:49.00 | Estel_ | erm, enough history of Maemo, volume :535 |
| 06:49.30 | Estel_ | as for MCE - finishing my short story, I needed to powercycle device, to bring it into working state |
| 06:50.01 | Estel_ | unless no-backlight and no-lock + diode pattern going indefinitely is considered as working |
| 06:50.09 | zeq1 | at least it didn't blow up :P |
| 06:50.13 | Estel_ | I hope that we will be able, one day, to replace mce |
| 06:50.15 | Estel_ | yea ;) |
| 06:50.39 | jonwil | good luck replacing MCE, its a very complex piece of code :P |
| 06:50.46 | Estel_ | but iamgine my WTF when slide lock didn't locked device, but blinked statusbar only, disabled touchpad (but keyboard was still working and responding!)... |
| 06:50.51 | jonwil | trust me, I should know :) |
| 06:50.55 | Estel_ | ...and run charging pattern via led |
| 06:51.06 | Estel_ | jonwil i know |
| 06:51.07 | zeq1 | freemangordon: any commits I need to pull before pushing? |
| 06:51.15 | Estel_ | but once it was said that we will never be clsoe to replacing bme :P |
| 06:51.17 | freemangordon | zeq1: no |
| 06:51.25 | Estel_ | MCe is real biatch, so I just hope |
| 06:52.17 | Estel_ | Well, time to stop generating "nosie in channel" (blinks to freemangordon) |
| 06:52.27 | Estel_ | noise, ffs |
| 06:52.27 | freemangordon | :nod: :P |
| 06:52.38 | Estel_ | see ya, gentlemans! |
| 06:53.03 | freemangordon | bye Estel_ |
| 06:53.22 | zeq1 | didn't rebase cleanly, need to jiggle the patches |
| 06:53.38 | freemangordon | hmm, why is that? |
| 06:53.46 | freemangordon | aah, ! thingie |
| 06:53.58 | freemangordon | maybe |
| 06:57.49 | zeq1 | no, somebody changed nsnull to nullptr |
| 06:58.09 | zeq1 | in widget/qt/nsWindow.cpp |
| 06:59.08 | zeq1 | it was code surrounded by our #ifdef's so it lost context |
| 07:00.14 | zeq1 | freemangordon: do we want the ! thingie patch in? |
| 07:00.25 | zeq1 | Estel_: see ya |
| 07:02.32 | freemangordon | zeq1: lets try without it, I could easily add it locally if needed for some testing |
| 07:02.48 | zeq1 | I'm trying to isolate the flag causing the libc breakage, I think it might be -ftree-vectorize |
| 07:03.15 | zeq1 | ok I'll reset HEAD^ |
| 07:03.15 | freemangordon | hmm, it is auto-enabled on -O3 iirc |
| 07:03.21 | zeq1 | yep |
| 07:03.27 | freemangordon | zeq1: ok |
| 07:04.46 | zeq1 | pushed |
| 07:05.03 | zeq1 | freemangordon: ^ |
| 07:06.16 | zeq1 | I now have a working thumb libc with kernel the missing syscalls working :) |
| 07:06.36 | freemangordon | good, going to pull fennec |
| 07:06.46 | zeq1 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 796.2K Jul 31 07:57 /lib/libc-2.5.so |
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| 07:07.13 | zeq1 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 397.6K Jul 31 07:57 /lib/libm-2.5.so |
| 07:07.29 | zeq1 | freemangordon: what was the libm size before? |
| 07:08.13 | freemangordon | zeq1: libc 1160576 |
| 07:08.25 | zeq1 | nice improvment :) |
| 07:08.26 | freemangordon | libm 448316 |
| 07:08.39 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 07:08.39 | zeq1 | not bad :) |
| 07:09.15 | freemangordon | debs? |
| 07:09.46 | zeq1 | I might have to email them, my server is currently down for maintainence |
| 07:10.41 | freemangordon | wut? when it will be up again, i was thinking to copy toolchain in merlin's server and to write a short howto page on wiki :( |
| 07:10.59 | zeq1 | it might be up |
| 07:11.29 | zeq1 | I lied, it is up |
| 07:11.34 | freemangordon | :) |
| 07:11.35 | freemangordon | ok |
| 07:11.47 | zeq1 | but it is undergoing maintainence, all the same :) |
| 07:11.58 | zeq1 | I'll put the debs up |
| 07:12.28 | zeq1 | although, shouldn't we have a dependency flag like for the thumb errata? |
| 07:12.36 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 07:12.45 | freemangordon | for [armel] only |
| 07:13.05 | freemangordon | zeq1: isn't it better to ARM buil fit |
| 07:13.12 | freemangordon | *build it |
| 07:13.16 | freemangordon | not thum |
| 07:13.35 | freemangordon | that way it can be used outside thumb repo |
| 07:13.38 | zeq1 | well for thumb repo thumb is better |
| 07:13.59 | zeq1 | no reason I can't make a non-thumb version for cssu |
| 07:13.59 | freemangordon | well, yeah, but then the version string should be libc-...-thumb0 |
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| 07:14.23 | zeq1 | still needs to depend on sigmask syscalls |
| 07:14.32 | freemangordon | WTF? "Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result." |
| 07:14.45 | freemangordon | i did git reset just before pull :( |
| 07:14.54 | zeq1 | ? |
| 07:15.06 | zeq1 | probably the null change |
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| 07:17.33 | freemangordon | but how im i supposed to pull ?!? |
| 07:20.19 | zeq1 | you could locally resolve the conflict |
| 07:20.56 | freemangordon | but I don't want to do that. anyway I rm -rf the directory, will clone from scratch |
| 07:21.01 | zeq1 | the only other option would be to reclone, |
| 07:21.06 | freemangordon | :) |
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| 07:22.39 | zeq1 | I'm building cssu kernel with new syscalls |
| 07:22.52 | zeq1 | my testing has been with kp |
| 07:23.00 | freemangordon | do you have .diff ? |
| 07:23.16 | freemangordon | so I can push it on gitorious |
| 07:23.19 | zeq1 | yes, shall I put it up |
| 07:23.32 | freemangordon | on your server? yes |
| 07:23.52 | zeq1 | I used quilt to apply it so you shouldn't have a problem with it |
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| 07:25.19 | zeq1 | in maemo/sigmask |
| 07:25.50 | zeq1 | freemangordon: ^ |
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| 07:27.08 | freemangordon | zeq1: ok |
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| 07:31.40 | zeq1 | shall I put up my glibc diffs too? |
| 07:31.58 | freemangordon | yes |
| 07:32.42 | freemangordon | zeq1: hmm aren't they in the source package? |
| 07:33.14 | zeq1 | they would be if I built one :) |
| 07:33.59 | zeq1 | just put up the debs including source pkg then? |
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| 07:34.22 | freemangordon | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -us -uc |
| 07:35.16 | freemangordon | and put the original source package in the ../ dir, so it will make diff.tar.gz package |
| 07:35.48 | freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ |
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| 07:36.29 | freemangordon | fuck, clonning fennec takes ages |
| 07:36.58 | zeq1 | ok will do |
| 07:37.40 | freemangordon | zeq: you should rename the original source package to something like [libc].orig.tar.gz |
| 07:37.52 | freemangordon | s/should/should also/ |
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| 07:47.31 | zeq1 | freemangordon: something to be aware of (very important) |
| 07:48.05 | zeq1 | you need to have the linux headers installed before building glibc |
| 07:48.19 | zeq1 | otherwise it doesn't obviously fail |
| 07:49.45 | zeq1 | so I need to put in that feature dependency |
| 07:50.35 | zeq1 | otherwise you end up with a libc completely lacking pselect()! |
| 07:50.59 | freemangordon | zeq1: hehe |
| 07:51.17 | zeq1 | not good! :) |
| 07:51.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, at least the symptoms will be quite unique then |
| 07:51.43 | freemangordon | zeq1: I will add kernel-feature-libc-pselect. |
| 07:51.51 | freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ how that sounds? |
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| 07:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, who'd doing pselect now? |
| 07:52.30 | zeq1 | probably better to make it sigmask or something |
| 07:52.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | libc, or kernel? or none of both? |
| 07:52.48 | zeq1 | kernel |
| 07:53.11 | zeq1 | DocScrutinizer: it's much faster |
| 07:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it shouldn't be named kernel-feature-libc-pselect |
| 07:53.20 | zeq1 | and doesn't hang anymore :) |
| 07:53.32 | Pali | ok |
| 07:53.32 | Pali | but this is for package *linux*-kernel-power-headers |
| 07:54.05 | freemangordon | Pali: ok |
| 07:54.26 | freemangordon | zeq1: what sigset? would you elaborate |
| 07:54.33 | freemangordon | sigmask even |
| 07:54.44 | zeq1 | see the patch name |
| 07:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, patch name is rather common best practice for feature name |
| 07:55.15 | zeq1 | it's not just pselect(), but 3 syscalls related to the same thing |
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| 07:56.36 | zeq1 | I wonder how it's going to affect power consumption? |
| 07:56.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | how would it? |
| 07:57.13 | zeq1 | dbus is a heavy user of pselect() |
| 07:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAH |
| 07:57.28 | zeq1 | and the performance difference isn't slight |
| 07:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, there's a performance improvement from patched pselect() ? |
| 07:57.55 | zeq1 | big |
| 07:58.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF? what did they do in "old" lib? |
| 07:58.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | busy loop waiting for signals? or what |
| 07:59.11 | zeq1 | I think so |
| 07:59.18 | zeq1 | also several syscalls to emulate 1 |
| 07:59.28 | zeq1 | that doesn't help |
| 07:59.44 | zeq1 | lots of trips to and from kernel |
| 07:59.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 08:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | still pselect() usually results in process going sleep |
| 08:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | so yes, in a special testbed there might be improvements in CPU load |
| 08:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | or turnaround time of a tight loop |
| 08:01.31 | zeq1 | it can't hurt |
| 08:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitely |
| 08:01.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
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| 08:09.07 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: so, what now, community kernel? |
| 08:09.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | for fixing pselect() ? |
| 08:09.36 | freemangordon | and one more bug |
| 08:09.46 | freemangordon | BT related |
| 08:09.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you could demonstrate the stock kernel has bug, then probably yes |
| 08:10.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no need, it is CVE |
| 08:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | demonstrate as in "run the test code that summons the erratic behaviour" |
| 08:10.56 | freemangordon | Dit is CVE, there is no need me to demonstrate it |
| 08:11.03 | freemangordon | *it |
| 08:11.18 | Pali | ping merlin1991 |
| 08:11.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | you asked for my notion. well that's it |
| 08:12.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd expect you feeling happy about an answer way less negative than you probably expected |
| 08:12.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 08:15.11 | freemangordon | well, TBH I didn't expect "prove that CVE is CVE". https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12558 |
| 08:15.13 | povbot_ | 04Bug 12558: kernel/bluetooth: CVE-2010-1084: potential bad memory access with sysfs files |
| 08:15.42 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ |
| 08:16.24 | freemangordon | otherwise I perfectly know who the negatron man is :P |
| 08:16.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I was commenting on the pselect() stuff |
| 08:16.54 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I think zeq already demonstrate it |
| 08:17.02 | freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ ? |
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| 08:17.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: we only need *one* valid rationale for cssu-kernel ;-D |
| 08:18.00 | zeq1 | to be entirely fair, I haven't run a stock kernel for years |
| 08:18.19 | kerio | yay stock kernel upgrade! |
| 08:18.21 | zeq1 | to be entirely fair, I haven't run a stock kernel for years |
| 08:18.30 | kerio | yay stock kernel upgrade! |
| 08:18.30 | zeq1 | that said this is a well known problem in glibc |
| 08:18.30 | freemangordon | zeq1: well, now you have thumb you can't run it |
| 08:18.41 | zeq1 | indeed |
| 08:18.50 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you are on stock, aren't you? |
| 08:18.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 08:19.00 | kerio | freemangordon: by the way, i vote for it to be called "kernel" |
| 08:19.46 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: could you run the binary that hangs with buggy libc then |
| 08:19.55 | kerio | because it's the kernel |
| 08:19.56 | freemangordon | libc/kernel |
| 08:19.57 | kerio | and stuff |
| 08:20.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't hang |
| 08:20.05 | kerio | D: |
| 08:20.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, shouldn't |
| 08:20.27 | zeq1 | DocScrutinizer: I got it to hang |
| 08:20.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and that's exactly what? a proof for nuttin |
| 08:20.58 | zeq1 | it seemed to hang more quickly when the system was busy |
| 08:21.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what |
| 08:21.20 | freemangordon | ? |
| 08:21.36 | freemangordon | it is a proof that fremantle is affected by this |
| 08:22.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no |
| 08:22.14 | freemangordon | Or I am totally unable to parse your statements |
| 08:22.15 | zeq1 | it's an unavoidable problem with trying to emulate pselect in userspace |
| 08:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably didn't understand what the program is supposed to do (or I didn't) |
| 08:22.43 | freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ ? |
| 08:23.23 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: did you read the problem description? |
| 08:23.31 | zeq1 | doc there are some good concise articles on line giving the rationale for the kernel support |
| 08:23.33 | freemangordon | on the mailinglist |
| 08:23.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | a proper demonstartion of a bug would usually exit with a printf saying "look here: the bug happened" |
| 08:23.44 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 08:24.21 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: we're not doing some poerpoint presentation to management here |
| 08:24.25 | freemangordon | *powerpoint |
| 08:24.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | in that code as I recall it that's been `printf("sigchld!") |
| 08:24.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: sorry you're going polemic again |
| 08:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't try to run random code, say "look it doesn't run. that's a proof for XYZ" |
| 08:25.58 | zeq1 | DocScrutinizer: the problem is very well known, and was fixed 5 years ago |
| 08:26.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI the code would print some msg when the pselect() fails |
| 08:26.21 | freemangordon | well, it seems you didn't get what the test program does. AIUI it printfs until it hangs |
| 08:26.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it locking means it doesn't work at all, and thus not proves anything |
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| 08:26.53 | freemangordon | well, I give up |
| 08:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you're not able to demonstrate a semi-conclusive proof of the bug, then your endurance is pretty flawed |
| 08:28.03 | zeq1 | whether or not the test is really good, why do we need to prove a known defect? |
| 08:28.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the expected behaviour is that the program eventually hangs when error occurs, then explain why that happens and all OK |
| 08:28.57 | zeq1 | are you asking for a technical explaination for pselect()? |
| 08:29.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq1: because I don't support forcing a new kernel on all CSSU users to fix a bug that's not even showing up in stock kernel, for whatever reason |
| 08:29.27 | zeq1 | the rationale for its existance? |
| 08:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 08:29.41 | zeq1 | people get hangs |
| 08:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I understand the implications |
| 08:29.48 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: and how you are sure it does not show? |
| 08:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never got hangs |
| 08:29.58 | zeq1 | sometime impossible to disagnose |
| 08:30.01 | zeq1 | diagnose |
| 08:30.09 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: since when WFM is a proof? |
| 08:30.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | since when "doesn't work so it's a bug in kernel" was a valid rationale? |
| 08:30.55 | zeq1 | but it's not a bug in the kernel |
| 08:31.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | show me the passage next to the test code that says "will eventually hang" and all id fine |
| 08:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | is* |
| 08:31.13 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: iirc it was already explained it is a bug in libc, solved in kernel |
| 08:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: so what? |
| 08:31.37 | zeq1 | it's a multiple bugs in userspace where developers have used pselect() where itg doesn't exkist |
| 08:31.39 | zeq1 | exist |
| 08:31.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 08:32.00 | zeq1 | typing too fast on N900 kbd :) |
| 08:32.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | demonstrate the bug happens on stock kernel |
| 08:32.21 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that is what i asked you for |
| 08:32.48 | freemangordon | to run the binary on your device, as you are on the stock kernel |
| 08:33.12 | zeq1 | or if you want to code up something better that's cool |
| 08:33.40 | zeq1 | I just grabbed that because it was there on the bug report |
| 08:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine |
| 08:34.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you said it hangs, while I don't see any indication anywhere that's the expected behaviour |
| 08:34.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | the expected behaviour is it prints some error msg |
| 08:34.50 | freemangordon | in the code? |
| 08:34.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI |
| 08:35.09 | zeq1 | perhaps I killed it too quickly |
| 08:35.32 | freemangordon | zeq1: could you please paste the link again? |
| 08:35.50 | zeq1 | I had the hildon this program has stopped responding |
| 08:35.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | so FIRST understand the code, SECOND explain to me so I understand it too, THIRD demonstrate it shows the expected behaviour |
| 08:35.59 | zeq1 | and I killed it |
| 08:36.17 | freemangordon | zeq1: nevermin, found it |
| 08:36.22 | zeq1 | ok |
| 08:36.26 | LaoLang_cool | zeq1, how do you irc on n900? |
| 08:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | thats not asking for much, huh? |
| 08:36.34 | zeq1 | CHAT |
| 08:36.39 | zeq1 | XCHAT |
| 08:36.39 | LaoLang_cool | zeq1, xchat? |
| 08:36.41 | LaoLang_cool | oh |
| 08:36.52 | zeq1 | oops wong button |
| 08:37.01 | zeq1 | LOL |
| 08:37.05 | zeq1 | wrong* |
| 08:37.14 | kerio | LaoLang_cool: xchat on n900 is good |
| 08:37.33 | kerio | nokia sans semibold 14 black-on-white |
| 08:37.40 | zeq1 | I'm plugged into my wall charger and I'm afraid to get close to the plug! |
| 08:37.41 | LaoLang_cool | kerio, I'll try, I've tried it but not good in my memory |
| 08:38.19 | zeq1 | LaoLang_cool: it works good |
| 08:38.59 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: read comment #6 here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319729 |
| 08:38.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | dman, I even asked you to run BOTH versions of the code, zeq1 |
| 08:39.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | one version is with simulated bug |
| 08:39.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI |
| 08:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the original author understood how to demontrate a bug |
| 08:39.59 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: do you want me to compile it and upload, so you can use it to test on stock kernel? |
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| 08:41.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I feel you're a bit confrontative regarding my ideas how to check bugs, so I don't think it helps when I run that stuff, you won't accept my results anyway as long as they are not in line with what you hope for |
| 08:41.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I got no time now, have to run |
| 08:42.13 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what? you think it won't hang? |
| 08:42.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course my basic statement stands |
| 08:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-31 10:35:53] <DocScrutinizer05> so FIRST understand the code, SECOND explain to me so I understand it too, THIRD demonstrate it shows the expected behaviour |
| 08:42.37 | freemangordon | naah, wont happen |
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| 08:42.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | the FIRST point is most important one in here |
| 08:43.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 08:43.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're not able to demonstrate there's any bug in stock kernel then |
| 08:43.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | why should I bother |
| 08:44.07 | freemangordon | I really start to think I am losing too much time arguing with you. With no result but "you do it, I don't give a shit, we won't agree anyway" |
| 08:44.41 | LaoLang_coo_ | is chating in xchat on N900 ;p seems ok |
| 08:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: sorry when I don't follow your inconsistent rationale |
| 08:45.01 | freemangordon | np |
| 08:45.33 | freemangordon | the problem is you don't follow others rationales. Upstream developers for example. |
| 08:46.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | look, if you can't prove there's a bug in kernel - even to me who's not completely averse and not complete idiot - how will you convince anybody else you did something worth it? |
| 08:47.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I asked you for a quote that says "program locking is expected result when bug happens" you ignored |
| 08:47.35 | teotwaki | "Hi guise, I fixed a bug that nobody ever found, and probably never will. Actually, the bug I found is part of a bit of ancient code slated for removal and marked deprecated since 1993. Can I apply bugfix?" |
| 08:47.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I told you 2look buddy there's a #ifdef in code that *simulates* the bug" you don't listen or care |
| 08:48.32 | freemangordon | The other problem is that you refuse to run a single binary on your device, which has a well defined behavior when run on an affected system. |
| 08:48.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: you're simply stating "it farts and that's my proof, go and check for yourself!" |
| 08:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | won't happen |
| 08:48.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I don't have a system with stock kernel |
| 08:48.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | too bad then |
| 08:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry dude |
| 08:49.12 | teotwaki | freemangordon: just find someone else |
| 08:49.17 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what? what's wrong with you man, I was asking for help, dammit. |
| 08:49.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I already explained to you why I don't feel like *I* could help, when you're not even willing to convince me you understood the test code |
| 08:50.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you want me to convince you to run some 5k binary? |
| 08:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever result I get, for you it will be the proof that you're right and I'm wrong |
| 08:50.40 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: where did you get that from? |
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| 08:51.47 | freemangordon | freemangordon: And why it became personal? |
| 08:51.53 | freemangordon | oops |
| 08:52.02 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: And why it became personal? |
| 08:58.42 | teotwaki | freemangordon: that's enough. |
| 08:59.11 | freemangordon | teotwaki: elaborate please, I didn't get what is enough |
| 08:59.18 | teotwaki | you pestering doc. |
| 08:59.42 | freemangordon | aah, sure. |
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| 09:00.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-31 10:49:38] <DocScrutinizer05> I already explained to you why I don't feel like *I* could help, when you're not even willing to convince me you understood the test code |
| 09:00.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-31 10:50:15] <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: you want me to convince you to run some 5k binary? |
| 09:01.02 | freemangordon | 11:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I asked you for a quote that says "program locking is expected result when bug happens" you ignored |
| 09:01.02 | freemangordon | 11:36 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: read comment #6 here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319729 |
| 09:01.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | get some coffe, dude! then reread |
| 09:01.14 | zeq1 | Let's try a different tack. From wikipedia "Event Loop": Thus an obvious way to handle signals is for signal handlers to set a global flag and have the event loop check for the flag immediately before and after the select() call; if it is set, handle the signal in the same manner as with events on file descriptors. Unfortunately, this gives rise to a race condition: if a signal arrives immediately between checking the flag and calling |
| 09:01.14 | zeq1 | select(), then it will not be handled until select() returns for some other reason (for example, being interrupted by a frustrated user). |
| 09:01.32 | *** part/#maemo burchr (burchr@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 09:01.51 | zeq1 | The solution arrived at by POSIX is the pselect call, which is similar to select() but takes an additional sigmask parameter, which describes a signal mask. This allows an application to mask signals in the main task, then remove the mask for the duration of the select() call, such that signal handlers are only called while the application is I/O bound. However, implementations of pselect() have only recently become reliable; versions |
| 09:01.51 | zeq1 | of Linux prior to 2.6.16 do not have a pselect() system call, forcing glibc to emulate it via a method prone to the very same race condition pselect() is intended to avoid. |
| 09:02.04 | teotwaki | zeq1: what the fuck are you on about? |
| 09:02.21 | freemangordon | teotwaki: bug description |
| 09:02.32 | teotwaki | no, he's just quoting wikipedia. |
| 09:02.49 | zeq1 | pertinent quote from wikipedia |
| 09:02.51 | teotwaki | and you can't really start a quote with "Thus" |
| 09:02.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly, not useful |
| 09:03.09 | teotwaki | which indicates a conclusion, or the midway point of a thought process |
| 09:03.29 | teotwaki | use fucking English, and stop behaving like morons |
| 09:03.42 | teotwaki | What's the bug? <answer in 1-2 phrases> |
| 09:03.55 | zeq1 | seriously, you're complaining about my editing or take a quote from wikipedia? |
| 09:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeaqh, finally some *decent* chan moderation - I missed that |
| 09:04.03 | freemangordon | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319729 |
| 09:04.13 | freemangordon | teotwaki: ^^^ |
| 09:04.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk |
| 09:04.34 | teotwaki | How many people does it impact? <one of: me, some people who run <app>, everyone (unlikely)> |
| 09:04.53 | zeq1 | I quoted the pertinent paragraphs. |
| 09:05.16 | freemangordon | teotwaki: a race condition in libc? everyone |
| 09:05.19 | teotwaki | How often does it impact them? <one of: never, always, periodically (once a day, month, year)> |
| 09:05.21 | *** join/#maemo lucas_gut (Lukasz@nat/nokia/x-ujlvyuuejicparkx) |
| 09:05.32 | zeq1 | every app that thinks it's using pselect() |
| 09:05.44 | teotwaki | freemangordon: no, I mean actual figures: You answer the question "how many people could be impacted" |
| 09:05.54 | teotwaki | zeq1: thanks |
| 09:06.02 | teotwaki | finally getting somewhere |
| 09:06.26 | teotwaki | I'll tell you this though: I'm a massive select() user myself, hardly ever came across pselect(). |
| 09:06.40 | *** part/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@193.144.61.240) |
| 09:07.00 | zeq1 | with signals? |
| 09:07.16 | teotwaki | sure, if your event loop is properly built. |
| 09:07.23 | *** join/#maemo r00t|home (~r00t@port-83-236-58-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 09:07.30 | freemangordon | teotwaki: according to the bugreport, it is udev who uses pselect |
| 09:07.40 | teotwaki | Ok |
| 09:07.41 | freemangordon | well, one of the users |
| 09:08.27 | zeq1 | teotwaki: read the full wikipedia entry |
| 09:08.34 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@cm-84.211.113.209.getinternet.no) |
| 09:08.37 | zeq1 | "Event Loop" |
| 09:09.17 | teotwaki | zeq1: yeah, I know what a race condition is mate, no worries there. |
| 09:09.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq1: freemangordon: >>> < Keybuk> on a machine with a proper pselect(), you can emulate the hang by compiling -DUSE_SELECT <<< |
| 09:09.53 | zeq1 | I wasn't disputing that, merely that there is one |
| 09:09.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | so... |
| 09:10.11 | teotwaki | zeq1: no, there *can* be one if you write shitty code. |
| 09:10.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ETX from my side, since you refuse to cooperate in a reasonable waqy |
| 09:11.29 | zeq1 | there is one if you assume the glibc implementaion works |
| 09:11.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I can quote, why can't you? |
| 09:11.44 | teotwaki | zeq1: I can assure you than using select() offers no problem whatsoever if your event loop is properly constructed: I have production code here using select a million times over, handling signals from the system constantly (I'm talking nearly 1M interrupts/s under load), and we have no issue whatsoever. |
| 09:12.09 | teotwaki | anywa |
| 09:12.10 | teotwaki | y |
| 09:12.13 | teotwaki | regardless of that |
| 09:12.29 | teotwaki | I can understand why the bugfix would be beneficial for the system/users by and large. |
| 09:12.36 | teotwaki | Now, what's the issue? Why do you need someone to test? |
| 09:12.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-31 10:47:14] <DocScrutinizer05> I asked you for a quote that says "program locking is expected result when bug happens" you ignored [2012-07-31 10:47:43] <DocScrutinizer05> I told you 2look buddy there's a #ifdef in code that *simulates* the bug" you don't listen or care |
| 09:13.37 | freemangordon | teotwaki: we don't run stock kernel, and simulating the issue on non-stock makes test flawed AIUI |
| 09:13.50 | zeq1 | teotwaki: there are programatic ways of implementing event loops without pselect(). but using a broken pselect() isn't one of them. |
| 09:14.11 | teotwaki | (teotwaki) I can understand why the bugfix would be beneficial for the system/users by and large. |
| 09:14.51 | teotwaki | Well, no, it doesn't. |
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| 09:15.01 | teotwaki | First, you test it on your system, you use the compile flags to reproduce the issue |
| 09:15.26 | freemangordon | teotwaki: zeq already did that |
| 09:15.28 | teotwaki | Once you've reproduced the issue, you apply your patch, and validate that within your test environment, the bug is fixed. |
| 09:15.49 | zeq1 | I did that too |
| 09:16.10 | teotwaki | Ok, so what's the bloody problem then? |
| 09:16.24 | zeq1 | at least the pselect() syscall is working as expected. |
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| 09:16.58 | zeq1 | and the broken glibc implementation is gone |
| 09:17.03 | teotwaki | Excellent. |
| 09:17.07 | teotwaki | So what's the problem? |
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| 09:17.22 | teotwaki | Just submit the patch for review and approval in whatever processes the CSSU has. |
| 09:17.37 | freemangordon | teotwaki: just a minute. |
| 09:17.45 | kerio | teotwaki: there's no process for kernel patches in cssu i think |
| 09:17.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and don't forget to submit the tests |
| 09:18.01 | kerio | no, wait, it's a glibc problem, nvm |
| 09:18.17 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: to submit it to myself? |
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| 09:18.45 | kerio | freemangordon: a bug tracker is also for tracking bugs sometimes |
| 09:18.55 | freemangordon | teotwaki: there are 2 people in CSSU related to kernel - me an Pali |
| 09:19.16 | kerio | freemangordon: that's... not true, isn't it |
| 09:19.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: honestly, a "<zeq> it hangs..." is a bit scarse for me, to even understand what that means or implicates |
| 09:19.28 | kerio | there are 0 people in CSSU related to kernel |
| 09:19.48 | kerio | because cssu doesn't deal with kernel, officially |
| 09:19.55 | freemangordon | teotwaki: the problem is a political decision whether to have so called "community kernel" or not |
| 09:19.55 | kerio | (yet?) |
| 09:20.22 | teotwaki | (freemangordon) DocScrutinizer05: to submit it to myself? |
| 09:20.27 | teotwaki | what does it fuckin' matter? |
| 09:20.42 | teotwaki | I mean, whether Doc tests the crap, and says "GO or NOGO" |
| 09:20.52 | kerio | guys, #maemo-ssu |
| 09:20.54 | teotwaki | how can you know it's been properly tested? |
| 09:21.09 | teotwaki | Either you use a good process, that has someone in the CSSU validate it |
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| 09:21.17 | teotwaki | And you submit the patch + testscases to them |
| 09:21.21 | teotwaki | or you don't test it at all |
| 09:21.28 | teotwaki | cuz from a truthiness point of view, it's all the same. |
| 09:21.40 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I've put the libc on the server. |
| 09:21.46 | freemangordon | zeq1: ok |
| 09:21.50 | teotwaki | there's no more guarantee from having me, doc, or joeblogs test it. |
| 09:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | how the f*ck hard can it be to post some proper report to ML, like "this is the problem: dadadada.... \n this is the patch: c-code_c-code.... \n these is the test code and are the test results showing there's a problem (see line 56) and that we fix it (see line 124)" |
| 09:22.01 | teotwaki | Submit it to the mailing lists, ask for feedback, give it 1-2 weeks time |
| 09:22.12 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer++ |
| 09:22.34 | freemangordon | teotwaki: that is not how CSSU development works |
| 09:22.48 | zeq1 | the proper test is just to test the new syscalls |
| 09:22.55 | ArkanoiD_ | damn. Nokia failed the idea of merged contacts for unified communications miserably :-( and it is even worse in Harmattan and seems to actually have nothing with sync :-(( |
| 09:22.58 | zeq1 | make sure they work to spec |
| 09:23.14 | kerio | ArkanoiD_: works fine in fremantle, i think |
| 09:23.44 | ArkanoiD_ | kerio, never worked for me, some contacts occasionally "exploded" all the way |
| 09:23.48 | teotwaki | This is how I analyse and report bugs: http://lists.zeromq.org/pipermail/zeromq-dev/2012-July/017912.html http://lists.zeromq.org/pipermail/zeromq-dev/2012-July/017936.html |
| 09:24.01 | kerio | ArkanoiD_: ouch |
| 09:24.03 | ArkanoiD_ | i thought it is google sync to blame but actually it is something else |
| 09:24.05 | teotwaki | Anyone on the list can double check what I said, so when I come with a patch/merge request, there'll be a trace. |
| 09:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and "that is how the patch works: explain_explain, and that's why the test works: more_explain" |
| 09:24.34 | ArkanoiD_ | because on n950 i disabled google sync completely and it did not get any better |
| 09:24.57 | kerio | freemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check them and push them |
| 09:25.08 | kerio | s/them/the patch/ |
| 09:25.18 | kerio | hrmpf |
| 09:25.19 | freemangordon | teotwaki: are you aware I am in CSSU team? Not kidding, asking seriouly. |
| 09:25.31 | kerio | freemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check them and push the patch |
| 09:25.38 | teotwaki | freemangordon: yeah, I do, but fuck me, I couldn't tell by your attitude. |
| 09:25.44 | kerio | freemangordon: having a trace is still good |
| 09:26.11 | teotwaki | freemangordon: I'm guessing you didn't understand my rant of "go or nogo"? |
| 09:26.24 | freemangordon | teotwaki: well, blame my english. |
| 09:26.53 | teotwaki | freemangordon: what I meant was, you and pali or pati or whatever are basically the people who would approve/refuse this if it came to you from someone else, right? |
| 09:27.13 | freemangordon | yep |
| 09:27.18 | teotwaki | freemangordon: so, now you're trying to fix something, but asking someone else for approval of your work? |
| 09:27.30 | teotwaki | So, either you shouldn't be approving other people's work in the first place |
| 09:27.42 | teotwaki | or, you can simply submit it publicly, and approve it publicly. |
| 09:27.58 | teotwaki | Which either validates the whole process, or invalidates the whole infrastructure. |
| 09:28.06 | freemangordon | But I want doc on my side, as he is a part of CSSU for long time now, even not officialy |
| 09:28.25 | teotwaki | Exactly, the keyword being "not officially", so it doesn't change anything to the whole political issue |
| 09:29.20 | teotwaki | freemangordon: had you just sent an email to the mailing list explaining the issue, documenting your patch, and asking for review, I'm sure Doc would've been happy to test it |
| 09:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, we need a public statement why we need a new kernel in CSSU, with proper evaluation and rationale |
| 09:29.49 | teotwaki | but going to him directly, and asking "yo bru, you've got a stock kernel right? Can you execute this binary for me?" |
| 09:29.53 | teotwaki | that's just plain stupid |
| 09:30.06 | teotwaki | And I'm not even talking about the security issue |
| 09:30.13 | teotwaki | Just from a "due process" point of view |
| 09:30.40 | teotwaki | freemangordon: do you get our position now? |
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| 09:31.50 | freemangordon | asking someone from CSSU team (even not officialy) to make a test for me is not stupid from my POV. Otherwise yes, I think I got it. |
| 09:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | a) I'd like to see at least a pastebin of "it hangs..." and b) we need to do this public, my "approval" in the end is worth nuttin |
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| 09:32.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and c) yes I think the rationale is basically correct, so that's my approval already |
| 09:32.47 | zeq1 | teotwaki: the disagreement is technical over whether it's been proven that the glibc pselect() is racy. Doc has a quite reasonable objection to my testing since it was not conclusive proof. It did definitely show the pselect() syscall is working however. |
| 09:32.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | since you pointed me to comment #6 |
| 09:33.53 | freemangordon | teotwaki: but in the end it seems it is not the correct channel to discuss CSSU issues, my apologies |
| 09:33.55 | teotwaki | zeq1 & freemangordon: If you want to get anywhere, fire up a shared text editor, get on some form of VoIP, and draft an email that explains the issues, and offer some proposals |
| 09:34.01 | zeq1 | On the other hand I'm not sure why I need to prove it when it's very well known defect, even making the quoted except fromw wikipedia. |
| 09:35.48 | zeq1 | I'm now on #maemo-ssu if that a more appropriate channel. |
| 09:43.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | zeq: you for example need to prove that stock kernel not already has a similar patch (or other means to not be affected by the issue. E.G. by one of numerous ARM idiosyncrasies) |
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| 12:05.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~Botsnack |
| 12:05.13 | infobot | aw, gee, DocScrutinizer51 |
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| 12:22.52 | kerio | i installed a screen protector but i took too much time and now there's dust permanently on my screen :( |
| 12:23.43 | kerio | it's only noticeable in direct light or when there are white areas on the screen, but it's still annoying |
| 12:23.54 | kerio | and it was only one, so i can't try again either |
| 12:23.57 | kerio | D: |
| 12:25.33 | kerio | i could just not use it i suppose |
| 12:25.45 | kerio | but it would piss off my father |
| 12:25.50 | kerio | goddammit |
| 12:26.05 | kerio | is there any way to clean the screen side of a screen protector? |
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| 12:44.52 | vi__ | zeq: It is libgcc4.7.2 right? |
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| 12:53.49 | RiD | kerio piss of your father? |
| 12:54.23 | RiD | why is that? I never used a screen protector. Sure, got some scratches because of that, but they're only noticeable under direct sun light |
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| 12:54.57 | kerio | RiD: because he doesn't approve of wasting money |
| 12:54.58 | kerio | rightfully so |
| 12:55.06 | kerio | but nevermind, cleaned it |
| 12:55.12 | kerio | now it's perfect ^_____^ |
| 12:55.47 | kerio | (for the record: clean with soap, put in alcohol, remove, shake off until only few drops remain, and put it on) |
| 13:02.50 | vi__ | Did you get your otterbox yet? |
| 13:03.25 | vi__ | What screen protector did you get? |
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| 13:10.49 | kerio | vi__: the otterbox should arrive tomorrow |
| 13:11.08 | kerio | i got an atfolix protector |
| 13:13.34 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
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| 13:19.59 | kerio | who's the maemo.org repos maintainer? |
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| 13:23.49 | ZogG_laptop | kerio: X-Fade why? |
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| 13:42.04 | vi__ | zeq: ping |
| 13:43.35 | kerio | hmm, backupmenu only handles a uSD when it's vfat on /dev/mmcblk1p1 apparently |
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| 14:20.14 | zeq1 | vi__: pong |
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| 14:30.06 | vi__ | hey, you seen the forum? |
| 14:30.12 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer: ping |
| 14:30.16 | vi__ | doc|home: ping |
| 14:30.23 | vi__ | geeze, which one is real? |
| 14:30.32 | vi__ | zeq: You saw TMO? |
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| 14:33.06 | kerio | vi__: regarding what? |
| 14:33.57 | vi__ | kerio: we have raised enough monies to buy zeq an N900 for development purposes. |
| 14:33.59 | kerio | :D |
| 14:34.02 | kerio | sweet |
| 14:34.06 | vi__ | In less than an hour. |
| 14:34.07 | kerio | damn, now i feel bad for not donating anything |
| 14:34.12 | kerio | oh well |
| 14:34.21 | vi__ | kerio: and so you should. |
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| 14:36.20 | kerio | Pali: i keep loving you more and more ^_^ |
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| 14:37.18 | RiD | DocScrutinizer05 http://5z8.info/-OPEN-WEBCAM---START-RECORD--_q0i4ao_linked-in-of-sex |
| 14:42.35 | kerio | vi__: fun fact: i even have a spare n900 i don't use because the usb port is broken |
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| 14:48.37 | jonwil | I would have donated if I wasnt flat broke |
| 14:51.25 | vi__ | jonwil: thats ok jon. Your contributions of lines of code are worth way more than 20 euro. |
| 14:51.34 | vi__ | kerio: Then send it to me. |
| 14:51.40 | kerio | vi__: hell naw |
| 14:51.51 | vi__ | fine, be like that. |
| 14:52.56 | jonwil | actually, I think my reverse engineering is by far the biggest contribution to the community |
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| 14:55.39 | freemangordon | vi__: great news |
| 14:57.46 | freemangordon | vi__: which thread? |
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| 15:11.16 | teotwaki | don't you fucken hate it when you post a reply to a mailing list, then a follow-up the next day to provide a really thorough answer, just to get a reply "Hey, cool." |
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| 15:24.30 | rcg-work | teotwaki: hey cool |
| 15:24.54 | teotwaki | I'm so tempted to ban you right now. |
| 15:26.41 | rcg-work | scnr :) |
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| 15:35.43 | jonwil | damn I have been spending too much money lately :( |
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| 15:35.50 | jonwil | but its on things I need so I have to spend it |
| 15:37.08 | vi__ | freemangordon: [call to arms!] |
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| 15:37.26 | freemangordon | vi__: thanks |
| 15:37.31 | vi__ | freemangordon: if all the pledges come through, we have enough to buy one of a guy on the forum. |
| 15:37.40 | vi__ | He lives in the same city as me. |
| 15:37.58 | vi__ | So I can go see it, pay with cash if it is good. |
| 15:38.15 | vi__ | Sodler down the USB and ship that mutha off to zeqland. |
| 15:38.22 | vi__ | s/sodle/solder/ |
| 15:38.27 | vi__ | s/sodler/solder/ |
| 15:40.00 | freemangordon | grea |
| 15:40.04 | freemangordon | great even |
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| 15:42.07 | vi__ | I just need DocScrutinizer to NOT buy one for 150 euros like he siad he might. |
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| 16:54.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | ok |
| 16:55.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | then I'll not have to cry when I have to send out the baby, I can keep it after I find any :-) |
| 16:57.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | anybody educate vi that IRC is no drive_by medium? |
| 16:58.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~botsnack |
| 16:58.39 | infobot | :), DocScrutinizer51 |
| 16:58.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | at least ONE is listening and online |
| 16:59.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~seen timeless |
| 16:59.47 | infobot | timeless is currently on #maemo, last said: 'could someone please tell me what "inedi.ntcn" is in that file? :)'. |
| 17:00.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | timeless: still with RIM? |
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| 17:09.42 | Woody14619 | Estel_, I read your constant whine about infobot, but you conveniently left out how YOU insulted community memebers by setting a negative factoid. Ironic in a way since your first spat here on IRC was over a negative factoid set by someone else. Yet another misrepresentation of Council... That said, your exit from Council has patched a lot of this, so I'm done talking about it. Just saddens me that I have to continue cleaning up you |
| 17:09.42 | Woody14619 | r messes even after you ran for the hills. |
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| 17:14.17 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
| 17:19.49 | vi__ | brb, sprints. |
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| 17:30.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: pong |
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| 17:32.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: c'mon :-D meanwhile *everybody* has made his notion |
| 17:32.55 | Woody14619 | ?? :) Made his notion? Don't follow you. |
| 17:33.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: or is there any tmo rant ongoing which I haven't noticed? |
| 17:33.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | sorry for my french. I meant everybody knows estel and how to read his posts and rants |
| 17:33.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | ::: not at all |
| 17:34.36 | Woody14619 | No, I'm saying I find irony that he was all up at arms over the ~tmo factoing here being "insulting to the community", but then creates his own insulting factoid and get pissy when someone locks it to prevent him from changing it after he regrets it. |
| 17:34.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | I just improved my ignore/spamfilter. Got a better more finegrained dynamic version in wetware |
| 17:36.10 | Woody14619 | Lol... I tend to make my ignore filters at my "caring" level. Ignoring them electronicly just means you don't see what they're up to, not that they're not up to anything. |
| 17:36.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: after all that's been exactly my plan |
| 17:36.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: :nod: |
| 17:36.59 | Woody14619 | What's the old saying? "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?" Better to know what they're up to than to ignore them. |
| 17:37.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: my enemy? ohwell, too much honor I'd spend by that |
| 17:39.02 | Woody14619 | no, not my enemy, though I can't say if the inverse it true. Reguardless, someone I'd rather track than be supprised by later. ;) |
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| 17:41.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | sure thing - double true when you got shanghai'd for chanop |
| 17:41.21 | teotwaki__ | if you have "enemies" in the same open source community, you've got other things coming than "whatever they're planning". |
| 17:42.01 | Woody14619 | agreed teotwaki__, but that doesnt' stop some people from making them... |
| 17:42.20 | teotwaki__ | Woody14619: what you didn't know... is that secretly... |
| 17:42.21 | Woody14619 | nods to Doc |
| 17:42.23 | teotwaki__ | I AM |
| 17:42.26 | *** mode/#maemo [+o OMGESTEL] by ChanServ |
| 17:42.30 | OMGESTEL | Mwhuahahahaha |
| 17:42.42 | *** mode/#maemo [-o teotwaki__] by ChanServ |
| 17:42.42 | Woody14619 | Nor do I care. :) |
| 17:42.48 | Woody14619 | lol ;) |
| 17:42.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | omgpupnik |
| 17:43.08 | teotwaki__ | haha |
| 17:43.09 | teotwaki__ | pupnik |
| 17:43.14 | teotwaki__ | where's that crazy fuck gone? |
| 17:43.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | either died or got other interests now |
| 17:43.43 | teotwaki__ | I defo hope the latter |
| 17:43.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | me too |
| 17:44.06 | teotwaki__ | talking about bygones, I wonder how qwerty's doing |
| 17:44.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | he wasn't that bad |
| 17:44.22 | teotwaki__ | I should shoot him another email one of these days, see what he's up to. |
| 17:44.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | :nod: |
| 17:44.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | greetings from me |
| 17:44.58 | teotwaki__ | will do |
| 17:45.06 | teotwaki__ | by the way |
| 17:45.11 | teotwaki__ | can you imagine that two years ago |
| 17:45.15 | *** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@HSI-KBW-37-49-79-172.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:45.23 | teotwaki__ | there were some 200 more people in here? |
| 17:45.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | I *know* |
| 17:45.53 | teotwaki__ | Heck, 3 years ago, 3 months from now, there were 400 more people in here. |
| 17:45.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | even 250 more at times |
| 17:46.09 | teotwaki__ | (amsterdam summit, n900 distribution) |
| 17:46.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | duh |
| 17:46.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's been slightly before my time |
| 17:46.42 | teotwaki__ | you weren't here back then? |
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| 17:47.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | but we're stable at 272 +- a few |
| 17:47.15 | teotwaki__ | fuck me |
| 17:47.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | (back then) nope |
| 17:47.22 | teotwaki__ | I've been idling in this channel for nearly 6 years |
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| 17:48.02 | teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer51: seriously? I always thought you were here before me. |
| 17:48.03 | teotwaki__ | Oh well |
| 17:48.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | I lived rather autistic wrt maemo community with my N810 |
| 17:48.32 | teotwaki__ | I need to run off quickly |
| 17:48.41 | teotwaki__ | won't be back tonight though, people coming over for dinner |
| 17:48.53 | teotwaki__ | laters |
| 17:48.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | cya |
| 17:49.07 | Woody14619 | Oh... and since even a stopped clock is right twice a day... |
| 17:49.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | enjoy |
| 17:49.12 | Woody14619 | ~h-e-n |
| 17:49.12 | infobot | hmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 |
| 17:49.24 | Woody14619 | Oh good.. that got fixed. :) |
| 17:49.37 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki__ (~slau@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 17:49.39 | Woody14619 | Must have missed that in the scroll back. :) |
| 17:49.44 | teotwaki__ | woops |
| 17:49.50 | teotwaki__ | sorry, just wanted to post this real quick |
| 17:49.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: hehe |
| 17:49.54 | teotwaki__ | http://firestarter.wedrop.it |
| 17:50.08 | teotwaki__ | It's mah project :) |
| 17:50.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | ooooh |
| 17:50.23 | teotwaki__ | Just a placeholder, but it's served by the actual project already :) |
| 17:51.38 | teotwaki__ | that page is rendered by two lines of code :) |
| 17:52.10 | teotwaki__ | auto & vl = this.layout<Vertical>(); |
| 17:52.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | mhm |
| 17:52.30 | teotwaki__ | vl.addChild<Icon>().size(400).type("F"); |
| 17:52.38 | *** join/#maemo kov__ (~kov@193.144.61.240) |
| 17:53.03 | teotwaki__ | vl.addChild<Header, 3>().text("firestarter"); |
| 17:53.54 | teotwaki__ | (not quite true, there's a bit more manual styling, but you get the idea) |
| 17:54.16 | teotwaki__ | anyway |
| 17:54.19 | teotwaki__ | 'latah |
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| 18:02.26 | vi__ | Woody14619: hey! |
| 18:02.46 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: we found an n900. I hope you did not acquire one yet... |
| 18:02.58 | Woody14619 | Was it hiding under you bed? :) |
| 18:03.15 | vi__ | no! |
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| 18:04.15 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (~ian@78.133.44.119) |
| 18:04.37 | vi__ | within an hour of starting the donations drive we had 110 euros in pledges to buy an n900 for zeq. A guy from my city (gregoranderson on tmo) has one for sale. |
| 18:05.06 | vi__ | TMO has some really cool people on it. |
| 18:05.36 | beford | like me |
| 18:06.11 | vi__ | you are a cool person? |
| 18:06.30 | beford | 24x7 |
| 18:06.53 | vi__ | M TO THE MUTHA FUKIN FO MAH NIZZLE. |
| 18:07.17 | vi__ | Woody14619: also, what is this offensive factoid? |
| 18:08.09 | Woody14619 | Doc took care of them already... They were the ones around h-e-n that Estel made a while back apparently... |
| 18:08.51 | *** join/#maemo Tofe (~chris@2a01:e35:8ac9:7dc0:222:2dff:fe28:a044) |
| 18:08.56 | Tofe | Hello ! |
| 18:09.07 | vi__ | ~h-e-n |
| 18:09.07 | infobot | from memory, hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 |
| 18:09.15 | vi__ | ~hen |
| 18:09.15 | infobot | [hen] hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 |
| 18:09.21 | vi__ | lame |
| 18:09.30 | vi__ | ~tmo! |
| 18:09.30 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, tmo! is trolls, morons and ogres. |
| 18:09.31 | Woody14619 | Better than it was two days ago. |
| 18:09.37 | vi__ | lols |
| 18:10.14 | Tofe | I'm wondering: when in a hildon-desktop plugin, where do all those "g_printf" I'm trying to output ? I don't see them even in the console in my scratchbox... Are they supposed to show up there ? Is there a log file ? |
| 18:11.27 | Tofe | ~hildon-desktop |
| 18:11.33 | Tofe | (worth trying...) |
| 18:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: [2012-07-31 18:55:52] <DocScrutinizer51> then I'll not have to cry when I have to send out the baby, I can keep it after I find any :-) |
| 18:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tofe: I'd guess the go to stdout of H-D |
| 18:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever that might be |
| 18:21.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably same as stdout of dsme |
| 18:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that one probably has no stdout |
| 18:21.52 | Tofe | well, I do see other outputs (trackerd, for instance), but not mine |
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| 18:22.16 | Tofe | maybe my compilation options are to be blamed, I quite don't know |
| 18:22.59 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: wtf does that mean? |
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| 18:37.53 | vi__ | tsssshhk |
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| 18:48.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: does what mean? |
| 18:49.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | my answer to your ping, given when you weren't in? |
| 18:51.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | oohfsck! 20:50 3652 22 22 -192 249 249 249 65535 78 |
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| 19:24.11 | ShadowJK | 78 minutes? :) |
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| 19:29.56 | Estel_ | Woody14619, honestly, instead of Your constant conspiracy theories and seeking enemies, I would like to hear more about Council's work on things that seems stalled for 3 weeks already, you're chair, after all |
| 19:30.04 | Estel_ | Other things are in fact too funny to even comment on them |
| 19:30.49 | Estel_ | freemangordon, can I nominate You for Council?:P you got awesome patioence. I've went through Your discussion with DocScrutinizer, and honestly, I'm amazed by ammount of time You spenmd on persuading people that are like south park's "We won't listen" |
| 19:31.18 | Estel_ | It seems that You have much bigger "soft skills" (tm) than You think You have |
| 19:31.25 | vi__ | Estel_: chill the fuck out. Have you manaed ED on n950 yet? |
| 19:32.02 | Estel_ | I, for one, would already stop discussing with someone who isn't CSSu mmaintainer, but just lieks to sound like one ;) That';s why I'm not in Council, probably. |
| 19:32.10 | Estel_ | vi__, sure, qole managed it ages ago |
| 19:32.24 | Estel_ | I'm fighting one buggy blocker thing that makes Ed unusable on N950 |
| 19:32.29 | Estel_ | bug bigger than anything else |
| 19:32.34 | Estel_ | biggest design flaw in N950/N9 |
| 19:32.35 | vi__ | what? |
| 19:32.38 | Estel_ | capacitive screen ;P |
| 19:32.39 | vi__ | aegis. |
| 19:32.52 | Estel_ | noope, aegis is noob compared to screen that can't detec anything smaller than 10mm in diameter |
| 19:33.17 | vi__ | cap stylus?t |
| 19:33.20 | Estel_ | I'm constructing capacitive stylus with 1mm precision, despite need for10mm touch surface., blah! |
| 19:33.28 | Estel_ | normal cap styluses are worse than clicking with fingers |
| 19:33.35 | Estel_ | precise ones cost 1/3 price of N9 |
| 19:33.47 | Estel_ | I'm doing one for 1$ ;) |
| 19:33.56 | vi__ | how? |
| 19:34.04 | Estel_ | actually for free, using replacement stylus for N900 and anti-ESD foil from Rpi package |
| 19:34.23 | vi__ | ? |
| 19:34.40 | Estel_ | cutting a irregular shape out of foil, that makes detected touch zone *out* of place covered by "stylus" |
| 19:34.44 | Estel_ | something like "virtual crosshair" |
| 19:34.50 | Estel_ | You know where it will click |
| 19:34.54 | Estel_ | but You see this point |
| 19:35.02 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@67.21.202.12) |
| 19:35.04 | Estel_ | = You can draw line and expect where it will end ;p |
| 19:35.31 | Estel_ | will post tutorial after finishing, i must just think about way to make this foil less elastic |
| 19:35.34 | Estel_ | glue something to it |
| 19:35.35 | vi__ | oh for a multitouch resistive screen. |
| 19:35.39 | Estel_ | yea |
| 19:35.48 | Estel_ | even resistive witohut multitouch, I have m-touch in ass |
| 19:35.52 | Estel_ | sur,e it helps in games |
| 19:36.05 | Estel_ | but honestly, I take resistive screen with pressure sensitivity, over it, any day |
| 19:36.07 | ds3 | captouch is F'ed if you want to really do stuff |
| 19:36.13 | Estel_ | yes |
| 19:36.33 | Estel_ | but, you know, from my experiments, it is possible to make stylus which will, at least, make possibole to hit small x buttoin in easy debian reliably |
| 19:36.38 | Estel_ | otherwise it's kinda unusable |
| 19:36.59 | Estel_ | until you xbindkeys it via keyboard shortcuts to death (and still, you can't expect to prepare every possible shortcut that may be needed) |
| 19:37.00 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@201.22.34.197.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 19:37.03 | vi__ | so you have installed ED? |
| 19:37.20 | Estel_ | as per qole's instructions. BTW, qwazix also did it |
| 19:37.28 | Estel_ | there is threa don TMO, somewhere about ed in harm |
| 19:37.54 | Estel_ | still, I want to use wheezy there ;P |
| 19:38.17 | Estel_ | actually, I'm focused in upgrtading N90 0version to wheezy, then, i'll use same image on N9 |
| 19:38.26 | Estel_ | n oidea about pulseaudio problems, though, and such things |
| 19:38.39 | *** join/#maemo rcg1 (~rc@g230051150.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:39.52 | Estel_ | vi__, have You read backscroll as requested by freemangordon, about community donated n900 for zeq? |
| 19:40.41 | ds3 | given how cash strapped N is... wonder if we can get enough donations to get N to make one more N900 run |
| 19:40.55 | vi__ | Estel_: what about it? |
| 19:40.56 | Estel_ | no. |
| 19:41.06 | Estel_ | vi__, basically, zeq needs development device |
| 19:41.27 | Estel_ | his first impresiov was - which I'm proud to hear, and little ashamed :) about buying device from my "n900" service ;) |
| 19:41.39 | Estel_ | as a way of donation, I would sell it under costs |
| 19:41.44 | Estel_ | vbut, freemangordon got even better idea |
| 19:41.48 | vi__ | Estel_: I have already started the fundraiser. |
| 19:41.52 | Estel_ | he think if You could mimic what was done with DavyP |
| 19:41.56 | Estel_ | ah |
| 19:41.57 | Estel_ | nice4 |
| 19:42.01 | Estel_ | where? |
| 19:42.12 | vi__ | Estel_: we received 110 euros of pledges within the hour. |
| 19:42.25 | Estel_ | awesome and nice to hear :) |
| 19:42.32 | Estel_ | where is thread/annoucement about it? |
| 19:42.36 | vi__ | Estel_: I found a guy in my city who wants to sell an n900. |
| 19:42.56 | Estel_ | great, I was about to aks if You're able to find bad condition supercheap N900 |
| 19:43.12 | vi__ | I just have to wait for the pledges to be fulfilled, I buy it, solder down usb. shippit to zeq. |
| 19:43.26 | Estel_ | nice :) how expensice the device is? |
| 19:43.29 | Estel_ | expensive* |
| 19:43.36 | vi__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:43.43 | vi__ | second hand. |
| 19:43.51 | Estel_ | great. Haven't You said, that You have 110 already? |
| 19:44.33 | Estel_ | it's much cheaper that I would be able to buy |
| 19:44.43 | Estel_ | so i'm glad You did it <ok> |
| 19:44.54 | vi__ | Estel_: we have 110 promised, just have to wait fot them to pay up. |
| 19:44.58 | Estel_ | (ok as in "thumb up") |
| 19:45.15 | Estel_ | nice. but, again, where the f is donation thread? Or it's closed already? |
| 19:45.20 | vi__ | Estel_: just a case of the right place at the right time. |
| 19:45.32 | vi__ | Estel_: buried! |
| 19:46.09 | Estel_ | :) |
| 19:46.15 | vi__ | Estel_: it was called [call to arms!] |
| 19:46.43 | Estel_ | nods |
| 19:47.29 | Estel_ | You know that you've basically organized what Council would be supposed to organize? Yet, you didn't wanted to candidate for Council, when I've asked You to :) |
| 19:48.51 | Estel_ | it's quite a pity, that people who have skills/moral/merit to become councilors doesn't want to (you, freemangordon, would find some other names to...) and instead, people that *want* become councilors, end up candidating and being elected |
| 19:49.04 | Estel_ | paradox of human nature, eh? |
| 19:49.24 | Sicelo | :\ |
| 19:50.30 | vi__ | Estel_: you need to curb talking that shit estel. it just pisses people off. |
| 19:50.59 | Estel_ | vi, who's saying that? i always though you're the one who says things when needed to be said, not carring much about "like/dislike" |
| 19:51.13 | Estel_ | anyway, I think that last thought is quite calm and constructive |
| 19:51.21 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 19:51.23 | beford | its not, its called trolling |
| 19:51.57 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (etrunko@nat/intel/x-ctuporpzncthkvlv) |
| 19:51.59 | Estel_ | you know what we ended with, and it could be even worse (arie also candidated :P ). We have freemangordon, You, Pali, and other people that would be absolutely perfect candidates for Council re skills, bot soft and hard, both coding and social :) |
| 19:52.03 | Sicelo | agrees with vi, beford. |
| 19:52.12 | Estel_ | beford, what isn't called trolling these days, eh? |
| 19:52.27 | Estel_ | sharing thoughts in civil way? *shrugs* |
| 19:52.53 | Estel_ | you know that irc have nice little button with "X" label, if You preffer places, where people think only like you think? |
| 19:53.35 | Estel_ | so now, please GTFO, when i'mtrying to convince someone to candidate for Council during next election, due to meritocratic things (like organising donation of devices for devs) :) beford, that's for You :* |
| 19:53.50 | beford | wtf? |
| 19:53.57 | Estel_ | it's also where You can kiss me, when You want to call something trolling, just becouse it's trending word. Fine? |
| 19:54.07 | Estel_ | thanks for You time. |
| 19:54.22 | beford | shutup women, get on my horse |
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| 20:00.32 | Estel_ | Sicelo, after this moment of understandable silence, You still agree with beford? Or are You going to find less childish "twin souls"? ;) |
| 20:00.49 | beford | stop trolling Estel_ |
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| 20:01.15 | beford | you attack me and espect me to be quiet? |
| 20:01.27 | Estel_ | it's up to you, but I would feel a little ashamed, due to fact of agreeing with such msierable creature |
| 20:01.34 | beford | you ask me to GTFO, and ask me to quit the channel |
| 20:01.46 | beford | yea, right. |
| 20:01.59 | Estel_ | beford, Your words are your choose, If all you have to tell us is some childish, 12-years old like (at best) sexist... I don't know, "gag"? |
| 20:02.42 | Estel_ | I udnerstand that immature doesnt-mean-anything lines of sexist comparisions are common in Your natural enviromnent ;) but we're on #maemo, ya know. |
| 20:02.53 | beford | surprise muthefucka. this is the internet. |
| 20:03.10 | Estel_ | well, internet got exact same ratio of miserable morons than real life, I suppose ;) |
| 20:03.36 | beford | just stop attacking me. stfu. please. |
| 20:03.51 | Estel_ | I've seen manyu different people here - some liking to argue jsut for the sake of it, some thinking that they're fighting for better good,. but You first one to land on my IRc ignore liost, due to being completely miserable creature, not worth my time. Congratulations. |
| 20:04.16 | vi__ | -_- |
| 20:04.20 | Estel_ | and take Your time, aftyer all, You need to have at least one place where You can talk about Your view on sex without being laughed off, yep? |
| 20:04.27 | Estel_ | we're not *so* cruel. |
| 20:09.50 | vi__ | Estel_: have you ever tripped on hallucinogenic mushrooms? |
| 20:11.29 | Estel_ | vi__, mushrooms are for kids, Datura is a way to go! |
| 20:12.05 | Estel_ | But after Datura I wouldn't see you as candidate for councilor - you would be candidate for Pope in my eyes! |
| 20:12.52 | vi__ | Estel_: I know what datura is. I have grown it, I have consumed it. The original question still stands. |
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| 20:13.08 | Estel_ | consumed? I've actually added it to tea (no joke) |
| 20:13.08 | mrover | Hello |
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| 20:13.22 | Estel_ | muchsroms, hm, let me think |
| 20:13.26 | Estel_ | I think no. |
| 20:13.42 | sobczyk | hi, anyone here managed to run power kernel along nemo |
| 20:13.53 | Estel_ | have You tried Juares? It's nice addition for Sunday chicken date |
| 20:14.05 | Estel_ | sobczyk, yea, many people, see TMO |
| 20:14.09 | vi__ | You should try them. They will let you see the world in a whole new light! |
| 20:14.12 | Estel_ | s/sea/search on/ |
| 20:14.33 | Estel_ | pink light spectrum instead of white? |
| 20:14.55 | Estel_ | better answer if You can be convinced to candidate for Council, as this questions stays, too |
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| 20:15.48 | mrover | Just a quick question. Can anyone use routing in maemo-mapper or CloudGPS? |
| 20:16.32 | kerio | cloudgps has a weird bug for me, the "search" text box displays text rotated by π/2 |
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| 20:17.44 | vi__ | mrover: AFAIK maemo-mapper is abandoned. |
| 20:17.51 | mrover | gnuite.com seems to be down. Just wanted to know if anybody is experiencing same problem |
| 20:18.15 | Estel_ | mrover, try modrana or Marble |
| 20:18.20 | Estel_ | Modrana seems like a way to go for You |
| 20:18.38 | vi__ | kerio: dwarz said it would be fixed in the next version. That was a while ago. |
| 20:18.50 | vi__ | I think he has moved on :/ |
| 20:18.53 | Estel_ | vi__, question about You as candidate for Council still stand |
| 20:19.14 | vi__ | modrana is the only activly maintained map application left. |
| 20:19.23 | mrover | Well, thank you for answers. Cheers! |
| 20:19.29 | kerio | what about maep? |
| 20:19.45 | vi__ | Estel_: No chance. I neither have the time nor the patience. |
| 20:20.00 | vi__ | Besides, I rather like the current councillers. |
| 20:20.08 | Estel_ | Understood, but it's a pity, as being 8no* councilor You do councils tasks many times |
| 20:20.15 | Estel_ | like explaining things, maintaining communication, or donating |
| 20:20.26 | Estel_ | so You proven already, that you have both time and patience :P |
| 20:21.07 | Estel_ | [rant]It's quite tragic, that people who *want8 to become councilors candidate and get there, instead of people that *should* become. It never leads to good things[/rant] |
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| 21:09.28 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it doesn't prove anything, as most people here donated, helped others, communicated... |
| 21:09.49 | Estel_ | donated != organized donations |
| 21:10.26 | ZogG_laptop | there are people who did that too |
| 21:10.29 | Estel_ | organized donations = moved own ass to find thing required, organize gathering funds, pick it up using money,s end to recipent, and being respected enough to actually get donations |
| 21:10.39 | Estel_ | Sure, and almost none of them candidate for council, sadly :( |
| 21:10.52 | ZogG_laptop | so? |
| 21:10.53 | Estel_ | too busy for politics, probably. and that is problem - Council is, suprisingly, not about politics |
| 21:11.02 | Estel_ | well, it's a pity for community, that's all |
| 21:11.10 | ZogG_laptop | man, you stop right there. |
| 21:11.30 | Estel_ | when we end up with people "wanting" to become councilors, cause they're not occupied by actually contributing as organisers, it end up with politicians in Council |
| 21:11.34 | Estel_ | You asked |
| 21:11.55 | Estel_ | if You ask without need for getting answer, go away and don't use my time, I answered honestly and verbosely. |
| 21:12.00 | ZogG_laptop | but you are excatly type of person you rant about |
| 21:12.08 | Estel_ | Can't respect thjat someone use own time to answer your question for obvious things? gtfo. |
| 21:12.19 | ZogG_laptop | lol |
| 21:12.21 | Estel_ | so you should like mne, as i'm not in Council anymore due to my decision |
| 21:12.33 | Estel_ | and i try to convince people that actually organsie things to candidate |
| 21:12.34 | ZogG_laptop | no i don't |
| 21:12.47 | ZogG_laptop | you just want to get back a piece of cake |
| 21:12.49 | ZogG_laptop | that's all |
| 21:12.56 | ZogG_laptop | just live with it |
| 21:13.04 | Estel_ | fine, but it is entirely your problem. Have something valuable to say, or You just going to try to prove me, that organisers like freemangordon or vi_ ar enot good for council, and You are? |
| 21:13.29 | ZogG_laptop | i never sad i'm good for council and never asked for that |
| 21:13.36 | ZogG_laptop | it's not me or someone else |
| 21:13.38 | Estel_ | honestly - I can be eprfectly honest, as i'm not p[olitician - kiss my ass. Your contributions ammount is clsoe to zero, but You like to accuse others about "Wanting a piece of cake". |
| 21:13.53 | Estel_ | go, do something useful Yourself. |
| 21:14.15 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: or maybe you don't know my contribution? |
| 21:14.38 | Estel_ | not to mention that You're quite borderline - one day You're whinning here how lfie is unfair and people bad because Your personal preoblems with work, and other day You argue jsut for sake of arguing, when someone try to convince *others* to candidate for Council |
| 21:15.02 | Estel_ | have problem with me convincing vi_? Sure, don't vote for him, if he agrees (which seems unlikely) |
| 21:15.18 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: lol |
| 21:15.25 | ZogG_laptop | you ranting about how others are bad |
| 21:15.27 | Estel_ | now You can go and *** yourself with stun baton, I'm off, no need to waste time with you |
| 21:15.34 | ZogG_laptop | and not only promoting vi |
| 21:15.49 | ZogG_laptop | i think he can decide for himself(c) your quote several times |
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| 21:16.50 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i hope you didn't start to drink when you quit your "job". have a good time... and btw contributing is not if you council or not, or even was kicked out of... |
| 21:17.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | offers +q for free |
| 21:17.14 | befr0d | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:17.43 | ZogG_laptop | i think the pal here need timel to chill out, and stop making revolutions |
| 21:17.54 | ZogG_laptop | befr0d: why not |
| 21:18.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | next one with an unfriendly word, notion, attitude, whatever, or the wrong md5 across his nick, earns first +q |
| 21:18.44 | ZogG_laptop | befr0d: but you need to make t-shirt "ZogG is da best contributor ever - he tested how my app looks like" :P |
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| 21:18.52 | befr0d | md5 is insecure :p |
| 21:19.05 | ZogG_laptop | lol |
| 21:19.28 | ZogG_laptop | befr0d: so i wanna test |
| 21:19.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly guys, one whole screen full of bitchingt |
| 21:19.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I haven't even scrolled back yet, to find more |
| 21:20.00 | befr0d | ZogG_laptop: hold on let me upload it |
| 21:20.05 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: don't read from the begining before judging |
| 21:20.32 | vi__ | what is +q? |
| 21:20.42 | ZogG_laptop | vi__: it means quite |
| 21:20.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | +q == STFU |
| 21:20.57 | ZogG_laptop | or STFU in Doc's language |
| 21:21.12 | ZogG_laptop | =) |
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| 21:24.34 | DocScrutinizer | http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml |
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| 21:29.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: I'm not the judge, I'm the ATF |
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| 22:21.14 | chem|st | ~popcorn |
| 22:21.14 | infobot | somebody said popcorn was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0f2YL_MThI, which is epic. |
| 22:34.12 | sfdsdgfsd | ~pornstar |
| 22:34.21 | sfdsdgfsd | ~seen pornstar |
| 22:34.25 | infobot | sfdsdgfsd: i haven't seen 'pornstar' |
| 22:37.22 | Estel_ | I must say, that Pali's hostmode is awesome |
| 22:37.53 | Estel_ | without any disregard for H-E-N and it's authors (and considering, that Pali's hostmode is derived from this code, so hats off), it made H-E-N virtually obsolete |
| 22:37.58 | Estel_ | and it's close to make it rpactically obsolete |
| 22:38.18 | Estel_ | autodetection of speed works like a charm, worked 7/70 attempts with different devices, for now |
| 22:38.26 | Estel_ | and during different conditions, I tried to stress it |
| 22:38.36 | Estel_ | even found some small bugs, like with HUBs |
| 22:38.54 | Estel_ | (trivial to fix, need to extend time before switchign speed during guessing, and then it works OK) |
| 22:39.13 | Estel_ | and to this proper integration with system, and we have obvious candidate for cssu-thumb |
| 22:40.10 | Estel_ | BTw, IDK what Pali did, but high-speed became completely reliable |
| 22:40.26 | Estel_ | no more bitching with enumerating it - I jsut fire it up with USB HD or pendrive, and forget |
| 22:40.42 | Estel_ | after few seconds (well, sometimes up to 15, but that's prive for auto-guessing) it's enumerated |
| 22:41.29 | Estel_ | maybe he use better time in script that I did manually, or twaked something during kernel integration - most important thing is that it works as it should, never expected it to happen so quickly |
| 22:45.35 | kerio | Estel_: i had to increase the times a bit |
| 22:45.46 | kerio | but yeah, it works great for me too |
| 22:47.12 | Estel_ | what are Your time values? |
| 22:47.20 | Estel_ | times between attempts to change speed? |
| 22:56.08 | Estel_ | btw see #maemo and my question |
| 22:57.02 | Estel_ | well, I'm starting upgrading ED to wheezy :) |
| 23:11.08 | kerio | Estel_: yeah, i put them to 2 seconds between boost and enum, and 4 seconds before checking successful enumeration |
| 23:11.12 | kerio | perhaps they could be tightened a bit, but meh |
| 23:11.33 | Estel_ | between boost and enum is probably not needed, but before checking enumeration is good idea |
| 23:11.46 | Estel_ | which line fo script it is in? i haven't traced it yet |
| 23:11.48 | kerio | Estel_: i think it waits 2 seconds by default |
| 23:11.51 | Estel_ | and no need, if You traced it already ;) |
| 23:12.07 | kerio | search for usb_enum |
| 23:12.10 | kerio | or "if usb_attached" |
| 23:12.18 | kerio | there are two sleep calls |
| 23:12.22 | Estel_ | thanks |
| 23:12.36 | kerio | i put them as 2 and 4, not sure what the defaults are |
| 23:14.06 | Estel_ | damn, Pali told me sysfs lcoation fro altering current used during charging, but it was on IRc, now need to search through logs... silly me should write it instantly |
| 23:16.46 | kerio | ~pali |
| 23:16.46 | infobot | somebody said pali was http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
| 23:17.14 | kerio | /sys/class/power_supply/bqwhatever |
| 23:17.23 | kerio | probably |
| 23:20.01 | Estel_ | yea, found it |
| 23:20.02 | Estel_ | w-wut? |
| 23:20.42 | Estel_ | cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/charge_current |
| 23:20.44 | Estel_ | 1750 |
| 23:20.48 | Estel_ | dafuq? 0_o? |
| 23:21.05 | Estel_ | da very, very fuck? |
| 23:21.10 | kerio | oh wow |
| 23:21.12 | kerio | neat |
| 23:21.18 | kerio | your battery must be really good |
| 23:21.26 | Estel_ | maybe it calculates it from my battery capacity |
| 23:21.27 | Estel_ | well, it's not calibrated yet |
| 23:21.35 | Estel_ | it's 3Ah, and now calibrated as 2,6Ah only |
| 23:21.47 | Estel_ | still, charging chip will accept 1250 max |
| 23:21.55 | Estel_ | and given such value jsut use default 950 i'm afraid |
| 23:23.00 | Estel_ | cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/current_limit |
| 23:23.01 | Estel_ | 1800 |
| 23:23.02 | Estel_ | suuure |
| 23:24.04 | kerio | Estel_: try putting it in the 500mA mode |
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| 23:25.15 | Estel_ | cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/termination_current |
| 23:25.16 | Estel_ | 6650 |
| 23:25.26 | Estel_ | wut? Are the divided by smth, or what? |
| 23:25.36 | Estel_ | s/divided/to be divided/ |
| 23:27.58 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, any comment on those values? Do you have idea, how they should be "consumed"? |
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| 23:28.12 | Estel_ | here is source code that implement those entries |
| 23:28.13 | Estel_ | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=blob;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/bq2415x_charger.patch;hb=HEAD#l1319 |
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| 23:55.22 | Estel_ | it seems, that 1750 is 950 mAh |
| 23:55.43 | Estel_ | 300 more than 1750 is 2050, which is what sysfs want to accept as max, so it's 1250, which is also 300 more than 950 |
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| 23:56.05 | Estel_ | lwoest possible value is 1350, which is 400 less than 1750 (default value), jsut like 550 is 400 less than 950 |
| 23:56.13 | Estel_ | and 450 is lowest possible value for chip as in mA |
| 23:56.20 | Estel_ | I wonder, why it translates like that iun sysfs entries |
| 23:56.35 | Estel_ | no idea about current_limit that is 1800 by default, and doesn't want to set itself higher |
| 23:56.47 | Estel_ | or termiantion_current which is 6650, no idea how to translate it to real numbers |
| 23:56.55 | Estel_ | maybe the same way as charge_current ;) |
| 23:57.37 | robbiethe1st | Well, erm, check the bq27xx datasheet? |
| 23:57.55 | robbiethe1st | Then, setup an i2C call snooper |
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