| 00:00.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | another tomfoolery of maemo/nokia |
| 00:01.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | IIRC |
| 00:13.25 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.128.103) |
| 00:13.28 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 00:17.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | well |
| 00:18.00 | Estel_ | yes, but ogg-support isn't package form nokia |
| 00:18.07 | Estel_ | Kulve and Contreas did it in their spare timer |
| 00:18.09 | Estel_ | time* |
| 00:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | gstreamer0.10-theora - GStreamer theora plugin from the "base" set |
| 00:18.37 | Estel_ | and ogg-support was always managed professionally, IIRC. either i still don't get something, or should gstreamer0.10-ogg be put as dependency of ogg-support? |
| 00:18.52 | Estel_ | after all, without gstreamer0.10-ogg, no real ogg support, so it should be pulled automatically |
| 00:19.09 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, sure, reinstalled gstreamer0.10-theora zillion times |
| 00:19.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 00:19.27 | Estel_ | that's the point, nfc why it doens't work, as I'm 1`2326423% sure that it worked before |
| 00:19.40 | Estel_ | I even spent some time determining best pixel ratio for smallest files with best quality/size ratio |
| 00:19.42 | Estel_ | for N900 |
| 00:20.27 | Estel_ | (using old TV tricks to make high vertical pixel density, but less horizontal one, = get small file sizes, yet turning on better quality of compression, = better results that with full resolution files and lower quality) |
| 00:20.53 | Estel_ | (of course correcting aspect ratio by pixel ratio, for example 1.8 :1 horizontal:vertical ratio |
| 00:20.55 | Estel_ | ) |
| 00:21.16 | Estel_ | I tested every attempt ond evice, and foun out, that 1.8:1 gives very good results |
| 00:21.48 | Estel_ | better than h264, int erms of quality/size, one and only drawback is that it's decoded on CPU |
| 00:21.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | gstreamer0.10-ogg Reverse Depends: ogg-support |
| 00:22.01 | Estel_ | so, summing it up, i'm perfectly sure it worked on device =) |
| 00:22.22 | Estel_ | wut? on my device, i can remove gstreamer0.10-ogg without ogg-support complaining |
| 00:22.39 | Estel_ | in fact, it was the case for last month |
| 00:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-cache showpkg gstreamer0.10-ogg |
| 00:23.17 | Estel_ | wait, but reverse depends mean, that it need ogg-support before installation, yep? |
| 00:23.24 | Estel_ | or not |
| 00:24.05 | kerio | i don't have gstreamer0.10-ogg installed, and i can play ogg file |
| 00:24.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui it means installing ogg-support will pull in gstreamer0.10-ogg as a dependency |
| 00:24.31 | Estel_ | kerio - impossible |
| 00:24.49 | Estel_ | unles syou're playing it via mplayer instead of openmediaplayer or stock |
| 00:24.51 | kerio | Estel_: dude, i'm one of the ones that tried your .ogg file |
| 00:24.58 | Estel_ | remember, gstreamer0.10-ogg is not in "user" section |
| 00:25.04 | Estel_ | You need to show all packages |
| 00:25.09 | kerio | ... |
| 00:25.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for one think that apt pkg database gets fsckdup pretty easily |
| 00:25.13 | kerio | are you kidding me |
| 00:25.14 | Estel_ | I knwo you've tried it |
| 00:25.19 | kerio | apt-cache policy gstreamer0.10-ogg |
| 00:25.23 | kerio | shows it not installed |
| 00:25.27 | Estel_ | kerio, but gstreamer0.10-ogg *is8 required to play ogg files :P |
| 00:25.30 | Estel_ | lol |
| 00:25.32 | Estel_ | wtf? |
| 00:25.44 | Estel_ | so what xipg/vorbis/ogg related You have installed? |
| 00:25.46 | *** join/#maemo conred (~conred@46.4.231.183) |
| 00:25.54 | kerio | i have ogg-support |
| 00:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | define 'installed' |
| 00:25.59 | kerio | which pulls gstreamer0.10-maemo-xiph |
| 00:26.09 | kerio | maybe that's enough? \_o_/ |
| 00:26.14 | Estel_ | is banging head against desk |
| 00:26.16 | Estel_ | this is madness |
| 00:26.29 | Estel_ | no, i have gstreamer0.10-maemo-xiph, and it wasn't working |
| 00:26.47 | kerio | i just installed ogg-support and it worked |
| 00:26.52 | Estel_ | honestly, no fuckin idea what gstreamer0.10-maemo-xiph does, it should allow both .ogg and theora to work, by common sense |
| 00:26.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is madness |
| 00:27.01 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, hm? |
| 00:27.18 | kerio | ooooh |
| 00:27.20 | Estel_ | I have gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad and gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-extra installed, but always had, and it worked |
| 00:27.22 | kerio | i have *that* installed |
| 00:27.35 | kerio | and -extra too |
| 00:28.11 | Estel_ | now .ogg works, but mr. tracker show that I don't have any music/video files installed, despite touching them ;) |
| 00:28.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody has a friggin clue what's the deal with gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-mad gstreamer0.10-plugins-sad gstreamer0.10-plugins-fat |
| 00:28.21 | Estel_ | bad, ugly, good |
| 00:28.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | gstreamer0.10-plugins-good, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly |
| 00:28.41 | Estel_ | tracing their conflicts and dependencies is even more funny |
| 00:28.46 | Estel_ | ugly conflicts with bad |
| 00:28.52 | Estel_ | but bad doesn't conflict with good, obviously |
| 00:29.06 | Estel_ | it's only me, or it starts to sound political? |
| 00:29.22 | Estel_ | + someone was so bright to add -multiverse variant of those |
| 00:29.30 | Estel_ | gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse |
| 00:29.32 | Estel_ | for example |
| 00:29.35 | Estel_ | whatever it does |
| 00:29.40 | Estel_ | sounds ubuntu'ish |
| 00:29.47 | Estel_ | never dared to install that, though |
| 00:30.08 | Estel_ | still, I haven't touched thta shit for months and my .ogg and theora stopped working, so i'm pissed off |
| 00:30.14 | Estel_ | now .ogg works, thanks goodness |
| 00:30.20 | Estel_ | thanks to gstreamer0.10-ogg |
| 00:30.29 | Estel_ | but now kerio say it works for him too without that package, so wtf I ask |
| 00:30.41 | Estel_ | and what is with theora |
| 00:30.48 | Estel_ | kicks tracker in ass |
| 00:30.58 | Estel_ | and that damn thing is so slow on rebuild database |
| 00:31.16 | Estel_ | s/rebuild/rebuilding/ |
| 00:31.40 | Estel_ | I'm close to --purge everything related to decoders |
| 00:31.57 | Estel_ | would do the same to mafw, but it would break pr, probably |
| 00:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, sudden breakage of such stuff 'out of nothing' quite usually in fact is caused by fapman doing autoremove or other sad shit |
| 00:32.02 | Estel_ | and install from scratch |
| 00:32.13 | Estel_ | my fapman have autoremove turned off |
| 00:32.34 | Estel_ | I could bet that my ogg playuback worked without gstreamer0.10-ogg before, just like kerio |
| 00:32.48 | Estel_ | gstreamer0.10-maemo-xiph should be freakking enough |
| 00:33.24 | Estel_ | ~assasinate decoders in repos |
| 00:33.34 | dsfsdfsd | ~assasinate decoders in repos |
| 00:33.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, probably you did an upgrade and it installed a fsckdup version from -devel |
| 00:33.51 | Estel_ | nope, there was no upgrade for them since ages |
| 00:33.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, fapman did |
| 00:34.07 | dsfsdfdgsdfsd | ~assassinate decoders in repos |
| 00:34.15 | dsfsdfdgsdfsd | ~ping |
| 00:34.15 | infobot | ~pong |
| 00:34.21 | MohammadAG | I HATE FACEBOOK |
| 00:34.28 | dsfsdfdgsdfsd | ~murder decoders in repos |
| 00:34.28 | infobot | ACTION shoots decoders in repos in his sleep |
| 00:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 00:34.37 | MohammadAG | 4 fucking updates in one day |
| 00:34.43 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, stop using it, it's simple like that :) |
| 00:34.55 | MohammadAG | Estel_, I'm not using it, I'm developing an app for it |
| 00:35.01 | Estel_ | masochism?:P |
| 00:35.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | even worse |
| 00:35.15 | MohammadAG | for me, it returns &expires_in=0 |
| 00:35.22 | MohammadAG | for others, it returns &expires=1324 |
| 00:35.26 | MohammadAG | or some random number |
| 00:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not killing people, I'm selling bombs |
| 00:35.30 | Estel_ | ;P |
| 00:35.38 | MohammadAG | I had to read logs and guess that |
| 00:35.45 | Estel_ | You could chosoe tool for geocaching |
| 00:35.47 | MohammadAG | since I removed access tokens from logs |
| 00:35.52 | Estel_ | or for feeding dogs remotely |
| 00:35.55 | Estel_ | but no, facebook ;P |
| 00:36.22 | MohammadAG | I think I'm done for today |
| 00:36.37 | Estel_ | admit that, you're doing it just to incorporate backdoor and get private photos of chicks |
| 00:36.54 | Estel_ | but why Maemo target audience, then?:P |
| 00:37.10 | Estel_ | womans here are countable using one hand |
| 00:37.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: too late, the hoofed one alias zuckerberg made you sign in blood |
| 00:37.13 | Estel_ | women* |
| 00:37.33 | MohammadAG | Estel_, some members have GFs :p |
| 00:37.38 | Estel_ | maybe MohammadAG bought faceshit actions on first day :p |
| 00:37.45 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, good point ;) |
| 00:37.56 | MohammadAG | but seriously, if I was a pervert that'd be a good idea |
| 00:38.01 | Estel_ | (actions = shares) |
| 00:38.10 | MohammadAG | meanwhile, laptop started creaking |
| 00:38.14 | Estel_ | now need to work hard to regain losses |
| 00:38.21 | Estel_ | well, he is fed up with faceshit too |
| 00:38.43 | Estel_ | well, i'm fed up with mafw/gstreamer/whatever refusing to play my theora files |
| 00:39.51 | Estel_ | erm, twisted progress |
| 00:40.07 | Estel_ | .ogg files work now as said, but tracker stopped being aware of theora fgiles playtime |
| 00:40.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm fed up with mafw for poor design that doesn't allow proper fade-in/fade-out/crossfade (almost highlighted somebody)/and particularly gapless playback |
| 00:40.12 | Estel_ | W-T-F? |
| 00:41.01 | Estel_ | well, theora files still complain about octet stream, and lost ability to show playtime |
| 00:41.33 | Estel_ | and .ogg files work,s but disappeared from tracker |
| 00:41.35 | Estel_ | WTF? |
| 00:42.37 | MohammadAG | I must admit, whatever framework Apple uses for media, it's awesome |
| 00:42.53 | Estel_ | honestly? it isn't. |
| 00:43.06 | Estel_ | I would be more than happy with normal linxu framework ;) |
| 00:43.15 | Estel_ | linux even |
| 00:44.07 | MohammadAG | honestly, it is |
| 00:44.20 | MohammadAG | let's see that linux framework handle rotation without pausing |
| 00:44.55 | Estel_ | what's the problem? |
| 00:45.00 | Estel_ | even N900 handles it |
| 00:45.08 | Estel_ | pivot screens on desktops handle it no problem |
| 00:45.29 | Estel_ | and, agtain, honeslt,y rotating during pause is nevertheless somewhere between 0K degrees on my scale of hot features |
| 00:45.44 | Estel_ | 0k as in 0 Kelvin |
| 00:53.10 | Estel_ | no, really. Now tracker lost ability to see albums |
| 00:53.15 | Estel_ | and generally, id3 tags |
| 01:01.29 | Hurrian | MohammadAG, wouldn't having a program handle creating a lossless stream and piping it to mafw be the solution if we really can't do away with it? |
| 01:01.38 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB35EC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:01.42 | Hurrian | think of the helper program avisynth-style. |
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| 01:02.40 | Hurrian | it does all the (cross)fade(in/out) and gapless, and pipes the output into mafw |
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| 01:09.41 | Estel_ | kerio, still here? |
| 01:09.50 | Estel_ | or DocScrutinizer ? |
| 01:10.12 | Estel_ | could one of You with working .ogg check if package gstreamer0.10-vorbis is installed? |
| 01:10.44 | *** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 01:11.00 | Estel_ | meantime, i've installed it and reinstalling ogg-support for 3254r38952137856235902350813263219680438069-326890230823969326023=69-8235613258326903746794394 time |
| 01:11.14 | Estel_ | ...because without it, any changes to gstreamer0.10* are not recognized anyway |
| 01:11.39 | Estel_ | (that's why it though sdlmixedr helped, when in fact, it was "one package earlier" gstreamer0.10-ogg) |
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| 01:15.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | gstreamer0.10-vorbis: |
| 01:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:16.43 | Estel_ | thanks |
| 01:16.59 | Estel_ | poor tracker, have lot of work today |
| 01:17.05 | Estel_ | tonight |
| 01:17.06 | Estel_ | whatever |
| 01:18.06 | Estel_ | do you remember, how to check mimetypes registered with tracker? |
| 01:19.31 | Estel_ | fuck that, i'm purging everything gstreamer/tracker/mafw related |
| 01:19.37 | Estel_ | Moar! |
| 01:20.45 | Estel_ | and in the end, it will turn out to be something fckin trivial |
| 01:22.00 | Estel_ | suuuure, .ogg files plays, but even during playback, media player doesn't know it's playing time |
| 01:22.16 | Estel_ | and seeking is disabled |
| 01:22.28 | Estel_ | total playtime - 00:01 second |
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| 01:30.36 | Estel_ | gstreamer-plugins*, fear me coming! |
| 01:30.37 | Estel_ | http://www.fanboy.com/archive-images/wookie.jpg |
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| 01:44.20 | *** join/#maemo gn00b (~gn00b@174-26-33-155.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 01:47.12 | gn00b | i just found a nokia n9 for $125. is that a good price? it dual boots meego 1.3 and android 4.0 |
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| 02:06.31 | ShadowJK | sounds kinda too good |
| 02:08.29 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, You know who depend sont hose gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-extras etc? |
| 02:08.31 | Estel_ | CSSU! |
| 02:11.48 | gn00b | ShadowJK, just found out...cracked screen |
| 02:12.04 | Estel_ | is fighting with mafw and friends for 6h already, and think that should be payed for that |
| 02:13.14 | gn00b | and only 16GB |
| 02:14.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, since 20.2010.36-2maemo16 |
| 02:20.12 | Estel_ | but, it worked, then ;0 |
| 02:20.30 | Estel_ | well, i've just nuked everything (tm) related, and re-installing, after reboot |
| 02:20.51 | Estel_ | marble got hit in the process, as it was depending on too much ogg related things |
| 02:20.59 | Estel_ | installing it back too |
| 02:21.21 | Estel_ | next thing is ogg-support and extra-decoders supporft, and I should be "in home" |
| 02:21.24 | Estel_ | we will see... |
| 02:22.33 | RiD | do you even play marble? lol |
| 02:22.44 | RiD | my head is too dumb for that game |
| 02:23.05 | Estel_ | marble as in navigational tool |
| 02:23.08 | Estel_ | and maps |
| 02:23.14 | RiD | oh LOL |
| 02:23.20 | RiD | i thought you meant the game |
| 02:23.26 | RiD | Marbles |
| 02:23.29 | Estel_ | :) |
| 02:23.38 | Estel_ | no, i play Homeworld on N900 |
| 02:23.40 | Estel_ | no jokes |
| 02:23.44 | Estel_ | gdizzz ported it |
| 02:24.13 | RiD | i saw that thread |
| 02:24.40 | Estel_ | I must convince him to port some Elite port |
| 02:24.45 | Estel_ | on open engine |
| 02:24.56 | RiD | carmageddon is my only game |
| 02:25.08 | RiD | not on n900, but on pc |
| 02:25.30 | Estel_ | maniac |
| 02:25.46 | RiD | what? why |
| 02:25.56 | Estel_ | try some real game, like The Witcher, You will never return to this again ;0 |
| 02:26.11 | RiD | no. I'm addicted to carmageddon |
| 02:27.18 | RiD | the joys of running over innocent human beings and animals! then reversing to kill that poor one who survived |
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| 02:31.26 | RiD | being a nightcrawler sucks. everyone's sleeping. |
| 02:36.30 | *** join/#maemo jd (Sv@unaffiliated/jade) |
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| 02:40.31 | Estel_ | most of the night shift guys enjoy the silence |
| 02:41.18 | jonwil | ~seen merlin1991 |
| 02:41.19 | infobot | merlin1991 is currently on #maemo (7d 20h 59m 38s) #harmattan (7d 20h 59m 38s) #maemo-ssu (7d 20h 59m 38s). Has said a total of 210 messages. Is idling for 1d 11h 44m 58s, last said: 'http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/microb-engine/commits/thumb-testing'. |
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| 02:49.21 | Estel_ | YEA, after nuke, .ogg files works fine, without that strange gstreamer0.10-ogg package |
| 02:49.30 | Estel_ | and tarcker sees it, and file playtime is detected ok'ish |
| 02:49.45 | Estel_ | theora doesn't play yet, but gives sane message about lack of Theora decoder |
| 02:49.52 | Estel_ | I feel ultimate victory is coming! |
| 02:50.07 | RiD | knocks on Estel_ head |
| 02:50.19 | RiD | i win |
| 02:50.22 | Estel_ | wut? |
| 02:51.13 | RiD | i win. the ultimate victory is mine |
| 02:51.15 | RiD | won* |
| 02:51.24 | Estel_ | don't you know that I generate 220v on my own, to supply 220->5v converter? |
| 02:51.54 | Estel_ | It's like turning whole nature wraith upon You ;) |
| 02:52.02 | RiD | my friend has a massager that sends shocks to his body |
| 02:52.07 | RiD | he first tried it on his neck |
| 02:52.13 | Estel_ | called vibrator |
| 02:52.15 | RiD | he ended up laughing and jumping |
| 02:52.20 | Estel_ | see? |
| 02:52.40 | RiD | then he tried it faster and set the power to 8 (in 1-10) |
| 02:52.50 | RiD | he was laughing, crying and jumping |
| 02:53.11 | RiD | i should buy one of these for terrible wake up pranks |
| 02:53.49 | *** join/#maemo aap (~drew@cpe-174-101-232-161.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 02:54.15 | Estel_ | or change colleagues |
| 02:54.25 | Estel_ | get *rid* of them |
| 02:54.29 | RiD | hehe |
| 02:54.56 | Estel_ | well, theora still doesn't play after installing gstreamer0.10-theora |
| 02:54.58 | Estel_ | hm |
| 02:55.12 | Estel_ | now, what was package that allowed it |
| 02:55.50 | Estel_ | at 5 AM is suspect ultimate victory, not: |
| 02:56.31 | Estel_ | http://i.iflip.im/2bb1.jpg |
| 02:57.00 | Estel_ | when i open my eyes I better see some Theora playback! |
| 02:57.25 | *** join/#maemo Jade (jade@unaffiliated/jade) |
| 03:02.00 | Estel_ | Yes! |
| 03:02.06 | Estel_ | YES! YES! YES! even! |
| 03:02.13 | Estel_ | theora works too, mission accomplished |
| 03:02.31 | RiD | oknow go sleep |
| 03:02.36 | Estel_ | summing up - for full xiph foundation codes playback, one need ogg-support and gstreamer0.10-theora |
| 03:02.48 | Estel_ | no freaking diea why it haven't worked before |
| 03:02.54 | Estel_ | but using Nuke is good idea, sometimes |
| 03:02.55 | RiD | that's mumbo jumbo for me |
| 03:03.06 | Estel_ | thanks for trying to help, zeq, DocScrutinizer, qwazic and others |
| 03:03.06 | RiD | but at least you're typing to someone |
| 03:03.18 | Estel_ | no worrioes, other read backscrolls ;) |
| 03:03.21 | Estel_ | others* |
| 03:03.28 | RiD | but then it's too late :D |
| 03:03.32 | Estel_ | but I appreciate Your nonwhitstanding dedication to be carying listener ;) |
| 03:03.54 | RiD | that's what happens when someone is extremely bored |
| 03:05.09 | Estel_ | go watch some porn, it's more honest than religion, anyway |
| 03:06.08 | Estel_ | but after this astonishing victory over mafw forces of darkness, it's really time for some sleep |
| 03:06.09 | RiD | that's why i was reading what you typed |
| 03:06.13 | Estel_ | see ya! |
| 03:06.19 | RiD | gives it a whole new meaning eh? |
| 03:06.24 | Estel_ | hehe |
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| 04:20.04 | Macer | using my n900 over lte |
| 04:20.07 | Macer | woop! |
| 04:20.23 | robbiethe1st | LTE or just 3.5G? |
| 04:21.30 | Macer | LTE :-P tethered to my lumia 900 |
| 04:21.32 | Macer | heh |
| 04:21.52 | Macer | love the N900 but not att support :-/ |
| 04:23.21 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5675.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:28.01 | EdLin | Macer, my N900 will be a step up for me, 3.5G on T-Mobile, instead of just rated 7.2MB. (Though that latter figure isn't even close to real-world.) |
| 04:28.08 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 04:28.31 | Macer | well.... the lte tethering is ok i suppose |
| 04:28.40 | Macer | my modem is broken in my n900 anyways |
| 04:28.47 | Macer | but i love my n900 :( |
| 04:28.47 | EdLin | yeah, except for battery life. |
| 04:28.53 | EdLin | your modem got broke? |
| 04:28.57 | Macer | yeah. that part sucks |
| 04:28.59 | Macer | yes |
| 04:29.05 | EdLin | how, an accident? |
| 04:29.11 | Macer | keeps disconnecting saying it cant read the sim |
| 04:29.15 | Macer | no |
| 04:29.23 | EdLin | bad sim card reader then? |
| 04:29.24 | Macer | just up and died on me one day |
| 04:29.28 | Macer | maybe |
| 04:29.37 | EdLin | probably not the modem. |
| 04:29.38 | Macer | doesnt matter. i dont have tmob anymore anyways |
| 04:29.45 | Macer | tmob is awful in chicago |
| 04:29.58 | EdLin | I don't mind tmob, they're Ok in NYC, better at least than atandt. |
| 04:30.14 | EdLin | AT&T is awful in NYC, as everyone knows. |
| 04:30.31 | EdLin | combination of iPhone hipsters and no new towers. |
| 04:30.39 | Macer | in chicago att is AERSOME ;) |
| 04:30.53 | Macer | er |
| 04:30.56 | Macer | awesome |
| 04:31.06 | EdLin | Macer, I don't envy you, because I save a lot of money with T-Mobile than if I had to have AT&T. |
| 04:31.26 | Macer | i suppose.. but the monthly bill wasnt my concern |
| 04:31.31 | Macer | the shit data was ;) |
| 04:31.33 | EdLin | I use T-Mobile prepaid. |
| 04:31.59 | EdLin | I figure since AT&T is shit in NYC, I don't want the roaming anyway. |
| 04:32.39 | Macer | when i went cross country from chicago to washington state... |
| 04:32.48 | EdLin | and I get to have no contract, so if I move, no problem switching to someone else. |
| 04:32.51 | Macer | us cellular was the only company in the sticks :) |
| 04:33.03 | Macer | i was constantly roaming |
| 04:33.05 | EdLin | us cellular is CDMA, right? |
| 04:33.22 | Macer | one thing i have to give nokia credit for.. their maps app for wp7 is awesome |
| 04:33.29 | Macer | yah |
| 04:33.49 | Macer | nokia maps downloads to your phone |
| 04:34.03 | Macer | and isn't totally awful like ovi maps |
| 04:34.09 | EdLin | Macer, I'll have to try it if the XDA hackers have made it available for other WP7 devices. I have an HTC HD2, it can run every mobile phone OS known to man. Even Meego. ;) |
| 04:34.11 | Macer | what an abortion that app was |
| 04:34.35 | Macer | wow really? |
| 04:34.36 | EdLin | well, it can't run Maemo... |
| 04:34.37 | robbiethe1st | Speaking of which, I-mobile has roming agreements with AT&T |
| 04:34.45 | robbiethe1st | so, if you've got T-mobile... |
| 04:35.22 | Macer | robbiethe1st: a little play after the buyout fell through? |
| 04:35.23 | EdLin | Macer, HTC HD2 can run Android, WinMo (that's what it runs native), WP7, Meego, Ubuntu, and some other stuff in emulation. |
| 04:35.34 | Macer | in emulation?? |
| 04:35.36 | Macer | lol |
| 04:35.38 | EdLin | Macer, I have it running Jellybean now. |
| 04:35.49 | EdLin | Macer, only for Windows 9x and stuff like that. |
| 04:35.50 | robbiethe1st | Well, they had it before the buyout, and then they had to agree to like 5 more years of roaming agreement |
| 04:35.51 | robbiethe1st | so... |
| 04:35.52 | Macer | using what? vbox? lol |
| 04:36.01 | EdLin | Macer, no, QEMU-ARM |
| 04:36.13 | Macer | robbiethe1st: trying to keep up with verizon? |
| 04:36.22 | EdLin | Macer, it doesn't need emulation to run Android or WP7 though. |
| 04:36.22 | Macer | i still think the block was lame |
| 04:36.38 | Macer | why would it need emu for maemo? :) |
| 04:36.48 | Macer | isnt that arm as well? |
| 04:36.54 | EdLin | Macer, it doesn't run Maemo as far as I know. |
| 04:37.00 | Macer | oh |
| 04:37.17 | EdLin | it does run Meego, but it's a closed beta, and I'm not in. |
| 04:37.35 | EdLin | Android and WP7 though are available from XDA. |
| 04:37.42 | Macer | a closed beta of open software :) |
| 04:37.48 | EdLin | yeah, weird. |
| 04:37.51 | Macer | high fives for the open movement! |
| 04:37.55 | EdLin | lol |
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| 04:38.33 | EdLin | Meego is not really that open, which is why I went with an n900. I loved my n810, if it had had hardware acceleration and better performance, I probably would have kept tethering it. |
| 04:38.57 | Macer | lol |
| 04:39.12 | Macer | some might argue that maemo isn't that open as well :) |
| 04:39.36 | EdLin | well, then there's Openmoku, but that's not very functional. |
| 04:40.03 | Macer | it is more a problem with hardware ip than anything |
| 04:40.11 | EdLin | if I have root, the hardware drivers aren't as big as a problem. |
| 04:40.28 | Macer | i would love to see a company release a device that is wide open :) |
| 04:40.42 | EdLin | it'd be nice, but it isn't quite neccesary from a developer or user standpoint except for developing the OS. |
| 04:41.13 | EdLin | Macer, not going to happen, regulations require GSM be closed source, and I don't believe that CDMA carriers would be more partial to letting it on their networks either. |
| 04:41.25 | Macer | well... i a |
| 04:41.32 | Macer | m not a programmer |
| 04:41.50 | Macer | but from what i can gather the closed hw bits of maemo really stunted its growth |
| 04:42.10 | robbiethe1st | Not really; closed SW bits more. |
| 04:42.12 | Macer | the N900 itself had huge hurdles |
| 04:42.24 | Macer | as far as running different OSes on it |
| 04:42.34 | Macer | ie: modem, gps, cams |
| 04:42.38 | EdLin | yeah, the HD2 is the king of the OS changing stuff. |
| 04:43.16 | EdLin | it has similar hardware to the HTC Desire, which has open source drivers. |
| 04:43.24 | EdLin | or the Nexus One. |
| 04:43.27 | robbiethe1st | It would seem that, so long as your other OS's had a reasonably close kernel, you could just wholesale load the kernel modules and userland stuff in for that support |
| 04:43.53 | Macer | robbiethe1st: at the time that was my arguement lol |
| 04:43.57 | robbiethe1st | As far as GSM goes, I don't see why it can't be both open and closed: The radio itself is closed, and exposes a fully open API. |
| 04:44.11 | Macer | nobody believes in backporting i guess |
| 04:44.17 | EdLin | robbiethe1st, it doesn't though, that's the thing. I run winmo, android, and wp7. Android definitely has a different kernel than the other two which use WinCE kernels. |
| 04:44.21 | Macer | i dont see why a kernel has to be bleeding edge |
| 04:44.46 | robbiethe1st | Actually, though, the real problem is that all kernel modules should come with source. |
| 04:44.48 | EdLin | robbiethe1st, it's mostly due to the fact that HTC kept making the same phone over and over again I guess. |
| 04:44.51 | Macer | if all the hw functions then a kernel update is unnecessary unless there is a fundamental flaw |
| 04:45.04 | robbiethe1st | The closed bits should come in userland blobs, like Nvidia doesa |
| 04:45.17 | Macer | robbiethe1st: yeah.. that was the openworlder arguement heh |
| 04:45.54 | Macer | had some great showings in here a long time ago about gpl vs lgpl lol |
| 04:46.01 | EdLin | robbiethe1st, that's what I meant by completely open, the radio has to be closed. |
| 04:46.23 | robbiethe1st | ...Of course, I'd also like to see a 'closed' radio with a specific HW flaw that allowed someone to bypass all restrictions. Short a pair of pins, and hey, you're at your own risk. |
| 04:46.26 | EdLin | the rest can be whatever you want almost, as long as it doesn't abuse the network so much that they don't want it on there. |
| 04:46.35 | robbiethe1st | And we(the hw company) did our reasonable best. |
| 04:47.19 | EdLin | robbiethe1st, when you say we, you're at Nokia? |
| 04:47.20 | Macer | i think the biggest fear is phreaking cell towers |
| 04:47.32 | robbiethe1st | No |
| 04:47.53 | EdLin | yeah, I thought most of the maemo people had either left, or were polishing up their resumes. |
| 04:48.19 | Macer | EdLin: i honestly wonder how far maemo/meego developer gets you in this world :) |
| 04:48.36 | EdLin | the Symbian people were outright sent away. |
| 04:48.53 | EdLin | as close as it could be to being fired under Finland's labor laws. |
| 04:48.59 | Macer | nokia could have been apple years before iphone |
| 04:49.10 | Macer | that is just piss poor management |
| 04:49.23 | EdLin | Macer, I want a computer in my pocket again with a nokia internet tablet, how far that gets me is not that important. |
| 04:49.24 | Macer | they dropped the ball bad on that one |
| 04:49.32 | EdLin | true. |
| 04:49.55 | Macer | they were way ahead of the curve but didnt capitalize on it |
| 04:50.29 | Macer | they got screwed by ms as well |
| 04:50.39 | Macer | lumia 900 will not be getting win8 |
| 04:50.42 | Macer | heh |
| 04:50.45 | EdLin | Nokia has been bought out by Microsoft essentially, MS didn't do the actual deed, but they replaced most of their key executives with 'softies, which is as far as you can get with Finalnd's foreign ownership laws. |
| 04:51.16 | Macer | wait until the angry lumia owners get a taste of that :) i have a lumia but only because they were paying people to "buy" them |
| 04:51.20 | EdLin | Macer, I don't think the CEO or his minons from MS give a rat's behind about Nokia, they're there to promote Windows on phones. |
| 04:51.40 | Macer | i got a $100 discount (the cost of the lumia) on my first bill |
| 04:51.49 | Macer | and â$100 in accessories |
| 04:51.56 | Macer | $100 |
| 04:52.25 | EdLin | that's pretty nice. Personally I'd hate to have a Lumina 900, the very thing is a mockery of the N9. |
| 04:52.38 | Macer | if that were the case the lumia 900 would be their target phone for win8 |
| 04:52.49 | Macer | since they sold so well |
| 04:53.01 | EdLin | Macer, they didn't sell well. They sold 300,000 of them. |
| 04:53.06 | EdLin | in the US |
| 04:53.12 | Macer | $20 upgrade fee and they'd start to challenge the bigger OSes |
| 04:53.17 | Macer | wp7 is not bad at all |
| 04:53.34 | Macer | no way lol |
| 04:53.38 | Macer | that cant be right |
| 04:53.39 | EdLin | overall Android flagships sold ten times as many. |
| 04:54.26 | Macer | from what i understand the lumia 900 did very well |
| 04:54.35 | EdLin | Macer, 300,000 in the US, and about 700,000 in EU and Asia. Sounds like a lot total actually, but not compared to Samsung which sold 30,000,000 phones. |
| 04:55.00 | Macer | lol |
| 04:56.00 | Macer | trying to find figures |
| 04:57.02 | EdLin | Macer, there are actually twice as many Windows Mobile phones in use than Windows Phone 7. It's been a flop. |
| 04:57.10 | Macer | of course they are only showing percentages heh |
| 04:57.26 | EdLin | Macer, look at those percentages. You do the math. |
| 04:57.44 | Macer | 3.7% of the mobile market share is wp |
| 04:58.02 | EdLin | and the mobile market is in the hundreds of millions. |
| 04:58.23 | EdLin | which means you get... about a million phones. |
| 04:58.26 | EdLin | like I said. |
| 04:58.41 | Macer | i am still looking for numbers |
| 04:58.42 | EdLin | with 300,000 in the significant to Nokia now US market. |
| 04:58.47 | Macer | maybe wikipedia has them |
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| 04:59.51 | EdLin | Macer, if you really think WP7 is doing well, at a 3.7% market-share, be my guest. The N9 outsold all but the Lumina 900 and that's only because Nokia tried their best to make it fail. |
| 05:02.49 | Macer | i honestly dont know |
| 05:03.06 | Macer | i am curious... i am looking for sales numbers but cant seem to find any |
| 05:03.10 | EdLin | they really had a potential hit on their hands with the N9. |
| 05:03.16 | Macer | so it most likely means it isnt heh |
| 05:03.30 | Macer | i feel like getting an N9 but no hw keyboard |
| 05:03.44 | EdLin | Macer, there are no official sales figures from Nokia, these are good estimates. Apple and Samsung and HTC release sales figures, Nokia is not. I think that in itself says it all. |
| 05:03.44 | Macer | N900 had the best hw qwerty ever made |
| 05:03.59 | Macer | yeah.. probably |
| 05:04.06 | EdLin | Macer, debatable, the HTC Touch Pro 2 had a great qwerty. Horrid OS though. |
| 05:04.07 | Macer | i want an N950 :-/ |
| 05:04.27 | Macer | EdLin: well... i love my n900 kb ;) |
| 05:04.32 | Macer | i'm using it now heh |
| 05:04.36 | EdLin | yep, it looks like a good keyboard. |
| 05:04.48 | Macer | i can only assume the n950 has a good kb as well |
| 05:04.57 | EdLin | I'm getting the n900 for the software, not the hardware. |
| 05:05.10 | Macer | too bad they ditched the kb with the n9 |
| 05:05.13 | EdLin | though other than some flaws with the USB port, the hardware is fine. |
| 05:05.14 | Macer | :( |
| 05:05.31 | Macer | well... my sim reader doesnt work |
| 05:05.36 | EdLin | yep. :( |
| 05:05.40 | Macer | which is also a common issue it seems |
| 05:06.03 | EdLin | I hope my N900 is in good shape, I'm getting it from a chinese dealer in hong kong that I've been told is problematic. |
| 05:06.10 | Macer | this is my 2nd n900 |
| 05:06.33 | Macer | first one was usb port snapping off |
| 05:07.01 | EdLin | yeah, that's a known issue. |
| 05:07.12 | Macer | i didnt even know that until after it snapped off |
| 05:07.24 | Macer | and this one has the bad sim reader heh |
| 05:07.36 | Macer | but i still use it all the time as a nit |
| 05:07.39 | EdLin | Macer, I won't laugh at you. I didn't know xbox 360s had hardware issues until after I got one. ;-) |
| 05:07.56 | Macer | oh.. the solder issue? |
| 05:08.13 | EdLin | the USB port solder issue with the n900, yes. |
| 05:08.14 | Macer | where you have to reflow it by forcing it to burn out? heh |
| 05:08.23 | Macer | i meant the 360 :) |
| 05:08.31 | EdLin | no, the 360 is worse than that. |
| 05:08.45 | Macer | i actually fixed one with the washers |
| 05:08.53 | EdLin | I finally got, as my third 360, a "short" model that should last. |
| 05:08.57 | Macer | i didn't think that would actually work heh |
| 05:09.06 | EdLin | they finally, after over 5 years, fixed the problem. |
| 05:09.09 | Macer | i still have one in my closet |
| 05:09.21 | Macer | i was going to riceburn it witha lit case etc |
| 05:09.31 | Macer | but didnt really ccare enough about it |
| 05:09.36 | robbiethe1st | N900 wise, The way to solve the USB problem is to take it apart and put a blob of solder between the edges of the USB port and the surrounding metal can covers |
| 05:09.47 | EdLin | Macer, why bother when MS will replace the thing for free for 3 years or so? |
| 05:10.00 | Macer | robbiethe1st: if i knew that i'd have done it ;) |
| 05:10.12 | Macer | EdLin: i got it free |
| 05:10.16 | EdLin | oh. |
| 05:10.27 | Macer | plus the warranty is voided after i ripped it apart heh |
| 05:10.30 | EdLin | Macer, if you're the registered owner tho, that won't matter. |
| 05:10.32 | EdLin | lol |
| 05:10.35 | robbiethe1st | I didn't know it until I screwed my first one up |
| 05:10.40 | robbiethe1st | Still have to go repair it... |
| 05:11.01 | Macer | robbiethe1st: my 2nd one is fine except the sim reader.. but no tmob anyways |
| 05:11.17 | Macer | i cant do 2G ;) |
| 05:11.28 | robbiethe1st | Yeah |
| 05:11.42 | robbiethe1st | Mine, well, the cellmodem's totally shot |
| 05:11.45 | Macer | i was considering ebaying it |
| 05:11.58 | Macer | someone might buy it for whatever reason |
| 05:12.04 | robbiethe1st | Picked up a pair of broken N900's for like $150 back when |
| 05:12.12 | Macer | i sold my first ones screen for $50 recently |
| 05:12.14 | EdLin | Macer, it'd be a good replacement for an iPod Touch. |
| 05:12.17 | robbiethe1st | I'd probably be the ne |
| 05:13.02 | Macer | wish there was something else like the n900 out there |
| 05:13.09 | Macer | but nothing else compares |
| 05:13.23 | Macer | its all the same trifecta stuff.. ios wp or android |
| 05:13.27 | Macer | it's sad :-/ |
| 05:14.15 | Macer | i need to try to get plasma active on my tf101 |
| 05:15.59 | Macer | anyways.. speaking of tf101 ... i just swapped over to it :) going to watch cold case... ttyl |
| 05:16.18 | EdLin | OK, enjoy. |
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| 05:55.58 | zeq | Just put my libc6 build on my device. Feels generally a little quicker. It's annoying I can't get it to run in SB1 though. |
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| 05:58.53 | freemangordon | zeq: do you know what exactly new features libc uses from 2.6.28, besides accept4? |
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| 06:07.03 | zeq | pselect and ppoll for sure |
| 06:08.06 | freemangordon | hmm, but if the other parts of the system are build without those being called, will it have any benefit? |
| 06:08.58 | zeq | yes, because virtually everything links to libc, and that's how those syscalls get used. |
| 06:09.17 | zeq | in fact that's generally how syscalls get used! :) |
| 06:10.44 | zeq | libc will emulate them if kernel support is unavailable (low min kernel version) |
| 06:10.55 | freemangordon | aah, i see |
| 06:11.34 | freemangordon | zeq: what is the risk to hit a kernel bug undiscovered till now because of those syscalls emulation |
| 06:12.00 | zeq | very very low |
| 06:12.40 | freemangordon | zeq: sorry to play devils advocate, but changing libc is risky think todo. Thus my questions. |
| 06:12.50 | zeq | in fact the emulation is known to be racy |
| 06:13.17 | freemangordon | did you build it with thumb? or it is arm only |
| 06:14.23 | freemangordon | zeq: BTW re LTO - you should pass -lto to both compiler and linker according to docs |
| 06:14.35 | freemangordon | -flto that is |
| 06:14.53 | zeq | yes, have not done so somewhere? |
| 06:15.02 | zeq | have we* |
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| 06:15.15 | freemangordon | in fennec if I am not mistaken. at least your mozconfig i saw |
| 06:15.29 | zeq | that would be a bug ;) |
| 06:16.07 | zeq | I doubt it explains the memory usage |
| 06:16.27 | freemangordon | i've build fennec with some ac_ options from microb, stil didn;t try it though |
| 06:16.32 | freemangordon | sure |
| 06:16.42 | zeq | which options? |
| 06:16.44 | LaoLang_cool | What's the best app for recorder on n900 do you think? recaller? |
| 06:17.30 | freemangordon | zeq: http://pastebin.com/gsmT1GMQ |
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| 06:19.14 | zeq | --disable-js-binary < what does that do? |
| 06:19.34 | freemangordon | NFC :D |
| 06:19.39 | freemangordon | going to try it |
| 06:20.52 | zeq | I think the updater is what checks for new extension versions when you update, is that right?? |
| 06:21.08 | freemangordon | zeq: sounds like that |
| 06:21.29 | freemangordon | zeq: some of the patches in microb are how sql commits |
| 06:21.45 | freemangordon | that would explain slow page opening in fennec |
| 06:22.02 | zeq | do they also do something about the idle cpu consumption? |
| 06:22.11 | zeq | I thought I saw a patch that might hint at that |
| 06:22.16 | freemangordon | ie sync/async commit |
| 06:22.24 | zeq | ok |
| 06:23.08 | freemangordon | well, i suspect idle cpu usage is because of idle support enabled for maemo, never checked though |
| 06:26.06 | freemangordon | anyway, if we don't find a way to reduce memory usage, further tunnings are pointless |
| 06:26.28 | zeq | I'm sure it's a bug that it's so high |
| 06:26.41 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 06:26.48 | zeq | I can't be supposed to use that much! |
| 06:27.14 | freemangordon | maybe you should rebase |
| 06:27.28 | zeq | yeah, I'll do that |
| 06:27.31 | zeq | have you made any commits? |
| 06:27.40 | freemangordon | no |
| 06:27.50 | zeq | okay, I'll just rebase and push then |
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| 06:31.57 | freemangordon | zeq: great, anyway I gtg, won't be able to test it soon, so no hurry |
| 06:32.20 | zeq | see you later freemangordon |
| 06:33.13 | freemangordon | zeq: damn, it just does not make sense to use ~100MB no matter if opening TMO or FB |
| 06:33.19 | freemangordon | zeq: bb |
| 06:33.44 | zeq | no it doesn't, we'll need to track down where it's going and file a bug |
| 06:39.54 | zeq | fennec rebased |
| 06:40.07 | zeq | freemangordon: ^ |
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| 06:44.46 | freemangordon | zeq: ok |
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| 07:34.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | --disable-js-binary = jazelle? |
| 07:41.01 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: If it is, we definitely want it. I'd e surprised though. |
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| 07:44.33 | zeq | freemangordon: re. pselect, ppoll. I'm feeling really dumb here, the ARM syscalls were MIA until fairly recently, missing in our kernel, glibc is in error assuming they are generally available @2.6.28. What's worse, when I ported Gentoo to ARM EABI, I actually created the ppoll/pselect patch for the ARM architecture, which didn't get applied! |
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| 07:46.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: you want it, means? No-Jazelle (as I seem to recall it's obsolete cruft anyway), or Yes-Please-Jazelle? |
| 07:47.29 | zeq | well, as I recall the problem with Jazelle was lack of open specification and difficulty to utilise, not performance per se. |
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| 07:48.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 07:48.48 | zeq | So in theory it could be useful, but in practice for the above reason I doubt this is a Jazelle implementation! |
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| 07:50.30 | zeq | re. pselect/ppoll: It might actually be worth backporting support into the kernel, it was introduced for very good reason, fixes real hangs, especially with the racy emulation in glibc (pselect was used far too much given it's lack of kernel support) |
| 07:51.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ummm what? no pselect support? |
| 07:51.42 | zeq | as for ABI breakage, that isn't a problem as it's only glibc that requires the support, userspace already assumes (wrongly) that it works properly |
| 07:51.58 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: I know, nuts. |
| 07:52.14 | Venemo_N9 | what is pselect? |
| 07:52.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but, but, how does the system work then? |
| 07:52.38 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: our glibc emulates it with a racy code |
| 07:52.57 | zeq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319729 |
| 07:54.00 | zeq | I'd forgotten this, despite as I mentioned above having ported the support to ARM miyself! :S |
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| 07:54.16 | zeq | s/miyself/myself/ |
| 07:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | DAFAQ! |
| 07:57.02 | zeq | indeed |
| 07:57.51 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:58.58 | zeq | IMHO Nokia should have hooked it up in the Maemo kernel, there was no good reason not to since the syscalls were reserved anyway. |
| 08:01.06 | jonwil | hooked what up? |
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| 08:02.43 | zeq | the pselect systemcall |
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| 08:02.50 | zeq | jonwil: ^ |
| 08:03.02 | jonwil | ok |
| 08:03.09 | zeq | s/systemcall/syscall/ |
| 08:03.09 | jonwil | and what does pselect do anyway? |
| 08:03.29 | zeq | it's a non-racy select() |
| 08:03.37 | zeq | (when it's not "emulated") |
| 08:03.41 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 08:04.26 | jonwil | I should probably get working on my wl1251-cal replacement :) |
| 08:04.31 | zeq | http://lwn.net/Articles/176911/ |
| 08:04.52 | zeq | jonwil: ^ good article about it |
| 08:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I probably fail to wrap my head around it |
| 08:07.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't any signal stash up anyway, until the (p)select would return immediately after call when signal is pending? |
| 08:10.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | or qould setting of sigprocmask automatically clear some signals? |
| 08:10.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | would* |
| 08:10.49 | zeq | example program linked here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/319729/comments/6 |
| 08:11.00 | zeq | was(!) |
| 08:11.05 | zeq | oh well |
| 08:11.39 | zeq | ah, it's still there, just clicked on the wrong link ;) |
| 08:12.11 | zeq | https://launchpadlibrarian.net/22877243/childspin.c |
| 08:13.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: you ran this prog against our glibc? |
| 08:13.59 | zeq | I didn't get enough sleep last night |
| 08:14.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | me neither ;-) |
| 08:15.01 | zeq | no, I haven't. But I know what implementation we have. I could give it a spin though ;) |
| 08:15.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean if we run into trouble here, we'd actually need a cssu-kernel aiui |
| 08:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless there's some nifty workaround |
| 08:16.29 | zeq | I believe in normal usage it's fairly "unlikely" |
| 08:16.33 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@212.152.85.107) |
| 08:16.39 | *** join/#maemo Neutron5 (~neutron@249-25-11.connect.netcom.no) |
| 08:16.45 | zeq | but then it depends... |
| 08:16.46 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@h196.natout.aau.dk) |
| 08:16.57 | zeq | races are fun like that :) |
| 08:17.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | general murphy rule: a possible race *always* happens, you just notice it after kernel version freeze |
| 08:17.32 | zeq | IMO it should never have been implemented in glibc until kernel support was in place |
| 08:18.21 | zeq | if people knew they couldn't depend on it, they wouldn't have coded to rely on it. |
| 08:18.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 08:19.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless... glibc does some nifty tricks to catch the race |
| 08:19.08 | zeq | they don't |
| 08:19.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so they thought "duh! let's replace it by sigprocmask pselect ? |
| 08:19.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | " |
| 08:20.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | err sigprocmask; select |
| 08:20.30 | zeq | The glibc implementation happened because it is part of POSIX.1 |
| 08:20.53 | zeq | the kernel implementation happened because of the broken glibc implementation |
| 08:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | OUCH |
| 08:21.50 | zeq | the bigger ouch is it getting left out of the ARM kernel for so long |
| 08:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep indeed |
| 08:22.00 | zeq | inexplicably |
| 08:22.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | though [citation needed] - run the testcode! |
| 08:22.24 | jonwil | The real problem is that the ARM kernel has had so many forks over the years that its impossible to keep track of anything :P |
| 08:23.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet fmg is happy to find another kernel fix he can implement |
| 08:23.36 | zeq | :) |
| 08:23.51 | zeq | jonwil: that's probably a big part of it |
| 08:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm feeling my refusal to think about cssu-kernel erode |
| 08:24.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | thumb :shrug: |
| 08:24.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | bug in kernel that potentially affects *all* apps/processes: FIXIT! |
| 08:25.07 | zeq | I was pushing way back when to get it in, but then I got frustrated with my inability to code PXA SRAM MM support, and put my Zaurus on a shelf... |
| 08:25.46 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.142) |
| 08:25.49 | zeq | I took on a project above my ability |
| 08:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: pretty please run the test code, tell us if a race happens or not |
| 08:26.18 | zeq | ok |
| 08:26.29 | jonwil | What kernel version is our kernel based on? |
| 08:26.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | (both versions!) |
| 08:26.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | of testcode |
| 08:26.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | #ifdef USE_SELECT |
| 08:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: uname ? |
| 08:33.10 | zeq | DocScrutinizer51: technically it's a glibc bug, with a kernel fix |
| 08:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, groked that |
| 08:33.39 | *** join/#maemo hazchemix (~user@m90-131-68-150.cust.tele2.nl) |
| 08:33.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | please edit the perror() in that prog a bit, so no doublettes |
| 08:34.07 | zeq | I've broken my language settings on my N900 :( |
| 08:34.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | if (pselect (0, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, &oldmask) < 0) { |
| 08:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | if (errno != EINTR) { |
| 08:34.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | perror ("select"); |
| 08:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | last line oughta be perror("pselect") |
| 08:35.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I'm not happy about the empty sigchld_handler (int signum) |
| 08:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | from my daily debugging I know what ARM compilers do to such code |
| 08:36.07 | zeq | feel free to fix it up, I'm happy to test again with a new version if you like |
| 08:36.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | "bwahaha idiot coder, let's move that to /dev/null" |
| 08:37.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: I wonder if a printf() would do |
| 08:37.38 | *** join/#maemo tanty (~agomez@193.144.61.240) |
| 08:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | or a bla++ |
| 08:38.31 | zeq | while that's running, how do I fix my language support? |
| 08:40.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, wats da problam |
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| 08:43.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | glares at 'as' on his N900, missing friggin gcc |
| 08:44.14 | zeq | I installed my glibc and all my native language translations disappeared |
| 08:44.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a tiny cruft like that https://launchpadlibrarian.net/22877243/childspin.c I don't feel like starting SB |
| 08:44.41 | zeq | I switched back to the repo version of libc6 and it's still broken |
| 08:44.42 | *** join/#maemo CodenameStrike-N (~Codenames@203.82.87.57) |
| 08:45.12 | zeq | all the device languages have disappeared |
| 08:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | uuuumpf |
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| 08:45.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe your 21MB locale blob got lost? |
| 08:45.59 | zeq | probably |
| 08:46.07 | zeq | but how can I regenerate it? |
| 08:46.14 | zeq | or replace it? |
| 08:46.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | not at all :-S |
| 08:46.24 | zeq | hmmm |
| 08:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | restore it from somewhere |
| 08:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a nokia blob |
| 08:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-( |
| 08:47.01 | zeq | I made a backupmenu backup a little while ago |
| 08:47.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | that should suffice |
| 08:49.38 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: rootfs? |
| 08:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't spot it now |
| 08:50.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 08:51.26 | jonwil | The easy way to restore it is to just do apt-get install --reinstall posix-locales |
| 08:51.35 | zeq | thx |
| 08:52.29 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: the test has hung |
| 08:55.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | Provides: |
| 08:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0+0m5 - |
| 08:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ??? |
| 08:55.46 | zeq | is that posix-locales? |
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| 08:57.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | / # ls -l /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive |
| 08:57.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 23911920 Feb 19 2010 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive |
| 08:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 08:58.14 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 08:58.56 | Macer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTcJ53uaQuU&feature=youtube_gdata_player |
| 08:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | nuke that and you get funny button labels like "tana-fi-homebutton" |
| 08:59.14 | Macer | damn euros are bad lol |
| 09:01.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ..."since that's the only way the Nokia translators can handle it" |
| 09:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 09:02.24 | zeq | stab_me_internet_connection :P |
| 09:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | literally? |
| 09:03.16 | zeq | that's what it says :) |
| 09:03.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 09:03.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | you nuked that file |
| 09:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:03.50 | zeq | must have. attempting to reinstall posix-locales now |
| 09:04.17 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 09:04.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd probably not dare that |
| 09:04.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather restore it from backup |
| 09:04.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | or first do a ls ;-) |
| 09:05.42 | zeq | still no languages :( |
| 09:05.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ls -l /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive |
| 09:06.00 | zeq | looks like I'll have to restore from backup :( |
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| 09:06.34 | zeq | file exists |
| 09:06.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | reboot? |
| 09:07.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk, have to run |
| 09:07.30 | zeq | giving it a go |
| 09:07.46 | *** part/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@193.144.61.240) |
| 09:07.49 | zeq | see ya doc |
| 09:10.06 | zeq | yay working! :D |
| 09:20.18 | zeq | hehe: http://www.spinics.net/lists/arm-kernel/msg38114.html <- that was me, no wonder I forgot, it was 5 years ago! |
| 09:21.00 | zeq | I'm going to go aheard and backport the official version |
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| 09:21.59 | zeq | impressive number of responses I generated there! |
| 09:22.04 | zeq | hi qwazix |
| 09:25.21 | qwazix | zeq: hi |
| 09:27.55 | EdLin | zeq: we're all impressed, you're a kernel hacker, and We Are Not Worthy. |
| 09:28.06 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@h196.natout.aau.dk) |
| 09:29.27 | EdLin | ;-) |
| 09:29.30 | zeq | I'm a poor excuse for a kernel hacker. I think I've got about 1 official contribution! |
| 09:30.21 | EdLin | zeq: I ran Linux 0.95 on a 386sx-16, didn't do much kernel hacking on it other than recompiling it without SCSI support for my PC, which took about 48 hours to compile. |
| 09:30.42 | zeq | that's like scoring 1 goal in a football career! ;) |
| 09:30.46 | EdLin | lol |
| 09:31.28 | EdLin | zeq: some American football players never score a goal, but I know what you mean, the no-hands sport as opposed to the American steroid-contest. ;-) |
| 09:31.30 | zeq | EdLin: that's pretty early on, I think my earliest kernel was 1.0 something |
| 09:31.49 | zeq | yes, that one :) |
| 09:32.01 | EdLin | zeq: 1.0 wasn't for over a year after 0.95 I think, maybe even 2 years. |
| 09:32.53 | EdLin | zeq: European football will never succeed in American sports networks, because it's too hard to find time for commercials. American football manages to get some commercials in about every 3-10 minutes. |
| 09:33.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: those were the days, 0.9x *sigh* |
| 09:34.22 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer05: I remember seeing the first Slackware ad on Usenet and thinking "boy is that thing bloated". |
| 09:34.28 | zeq | EdLin: thats a good explanation why "soccer" never made it bit in the US |
| 09:34.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | where you had to patch your kernel with some weird binary patcher, to get errr. wut? kernel cmdline right? |
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| 09:35.22 | zeq | I was a RISC OS dev before I found RiscBSD, then onto Linux |
| 09:35.27 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer, I don't recall debugging the early kernels, I just lived with whatever bugs they had more or less, though I did patch them sometimes to the latest patch level. |
| 09:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, back then it was a immanent part of installing a kernel |
| 09:36.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | you had to patch it to tell it about rootfs or whatever |
| 09:36.19 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer, oh yes, that stuff. |
| 09:36.27 | EdLin | but I used a boot/root disk combo. |
| 09:36.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | that came later iirc |
| 09:36.48 | EdLin | nope, it was around at 0.95 |
| 09:36.49 | bindi | anyone creative want to figure out what I could do with my old N900 that is no longer being used :p? |
| 09:37.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | EdLin: aaah yes, might be right: boot from floppy to HDD |
| 09:37.38 | EdLin | bindi: probably give it to me because mine comes from a Chinese eBay seller that I hear is not reliable. :( |
| 09:37.48 | bindi | next! |
| 09:38.17 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer, it wasn't too hard to get it to boot on the hard drive, as long as you had the proper MS-DOS partitions for dual booting. |
| 09:38.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | loadlin, yayaya |
| 09:38.49 | EdLin | yeah, I think I remember that bit. |
| 09:39.09 | vi__ | bindi: I will give you $10 for it. |
| 09:39.28 | bindi | nah, I could sell it for 60€ but I rather find a use for it |
| 09:40.02 | EdLin | bindi: I use Skype a lot, got a 100-voice-minute/5GB data plan. Does that count as a use for it? |
| 09:40.41 | bindi | I got a better idea |
| 09:40.45 | EdLin | also use the Linux stuff on it too, want to use gpg-encrypted email on it using another email client. |
| 09:40.53 | bindi | ipcam with face recognition |
| 09:40.56 | bindi | :-D |
| 09:41.02 | EdLin | cool. :) |
| 09:41.15 | bindi | i wonder if this is possible on the n900 alone |
| 09:41.34 | EdLin | I don't know, they manage to do face recognition on Android phones. |
| 09:41.55 | bindi | there's a game/demo of face recognition for the n900 |
| 09:41.58 | bindi | burgerface |
| 09:42.05 | bindi | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Wh4NuRfeU |
| 09:42.43 | EdLin | cute |
| 09:44.50 | EdLin | is the stock email client open-source? I'm wondering if it would be possible to add gpg-encryption if it isn't a feature. |
| 09:45.52 | EdLin | I recall the n810 didn't have that feature in its stock email client, I used a third party client instead. |
| 09:46.12 | EdLin | forget which one. |
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| 09:49.15 | EdLin | I didn't do much email with the n810, but plan to more with the n900 of course due to the always-on connection. |
| 09:49.41 | EdLin | so gpg encryption is going to be important, as one of my frequent email correspondants loves to use it. |
| 09:50.38 | EdLin | is talking to himself, the best form of encryption |
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| 09:52.16 | zeq | EdLin: it's one of the features conspicuously missing from modest |
| 09:52.47 | EdLin | zeq: that's what I was afraid of. Is modest easily worked on? |
| 09:53.08 | zeq | EdLin: I've not looked at it |
| 09:53.22 | EdLin | or maybe I'll just install a third party Linux email client and call it a day. |
| 09:53.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly easily |
| 09:53.24 | zeq | codewise |
| 09:53.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | but some guys already did it |
| 09:53.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | also on tinymail - under the hood of modest |
| 09:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 09:54.17 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: so there's gpg support in modest? |
| 09:54.21 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer, you have some links to their project? |
| 09:54.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 09:54.38 | *** join/#maemo maybeWTF (~cl@p5B165CA6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | EdLin: check CSSU |
| 09:54.52 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 09:55.04 | zeq | Didn't think I'd have failed to notice that appear as a new feature! |
| 09:55.22 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer05, which CSSU is it in, standard or testing? |
| 09:55.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | t |
| 09:56.01 | EdLin | cool, I guess I'll be joining the ranks of CSSU testers then, this is an important feature for me. |
| 09:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | portrait support and treeviews are buzzwords I recall |
| 09:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | as well as "delete mails on server" |
| 09:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | EdLin: there's NO gpg support in CSSU modest! |
| 09:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I've been fuzzy in my posts above |
| 09:57.16 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer05, OK, I misunderstood you. :) What exactly do you mean? |
| 09:57.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | but some guys already did it (edit/patch modest) |
| 09:57.48 | EdLin | so it's waiting to be included in CSSU? |
| 09:57.52 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B1634B8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:58.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | portrait support and treeviews are buzzwords I recall |
| 09:58.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | (modest) |
| 09:58.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | as well as "delete mails on server" |
| 09:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | (tinymail) |
| 09:58.36 | EdLin | yes, but what about gpg. Come out with it man! ;-) |
| 09:58.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC |
| 09:58.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik nobody dared to bother yet |
| 09:58.55 | bindi | RFID |
| 10:00.20 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer05, it shouldn't be too hard if you have access to the message text buffer in a reasonable form, just send the stuff to gpg, and read back what it spits out. Maybe use a special program to handle this if neccesary like with APG in Android. |
| 10:00.41 | *** join/#maemo rcg-work (~rc@fb2-pub-1.dv-nr.fh-frankfurt.de) |
| 10:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard several users use claws |
| 10:02.27 | EdLin | yeah, that's the one I used on n810. |
| 10:02.31 | EdLin | I recall it now. |
| 10:03.04 | EdLin | but claws kind of has a lack of a nice interface, it's definitely a port of a desktop program. |
| 10:03.36 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-218-34.as13285.net) |
| 10:03.51 | EdLin | at least, on the n810 it was, don't see any reason why n900 would be different in that regard. |
| 10:04.38 | EdLin | I'll have to see how much I like Modest, if I like it a lot, I might persuade myself to hack on it. |
| 10:06.02 | EdLin | otherwise I'd use claws or mutt. |
| 10:08.25 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~Hurrian@121.54.2.104) |
| 10:08.41 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 10:10.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | modest lacks basically everything I need for maqnaging my mail |
| 10:11.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, any arbitrary webmailer interface is a feature monster compared to modest |
| 10:12.00 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer05, then I probably won't bother messing with it. |
| 10:12.43 | EdLin | DocScrutinizer05, too bad, the n900 is a sort of power-user's device. |
| 10:12.55 | EdLin | I was hoping they'd put in a better email client. |
| 10:12.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *hate* webmailer, but for N900 it'd be the alternative of choice for my mailing needs |
| 10:13.24 | EdLin | well, webmail doesn't have good gpg support, other than cutting and pasting it by hand. :) |
| 10:13.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 10:13.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | web.de once had |
| 10:14.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | modulo you had to share your private key of course |
| 10:14.17 | EdLin | eww |
| 10:14.26 | EdLin | I wouldn't share my private key... |
| 10:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually they generated a keypair for you |
| 10:15.00 | EdLin | same difference. |
| 10:15.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 10:15.16 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 10:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | webmeailer by design defeats the purpose of pgp |
| 10:15.43 | EdLin | I heard about a "secure" webmail site, one day the police came knocking and insisted they give up their keys, they caved. |
| 10:15.55 | EdLin | not web.de, a different one. |
| 10:18.45 | EdLin | I actually keep an encrypted (with gpg symetrical encryption option) copy of my key on another server, but it is not usable in that state by others of course. |
| 10:19.04 | EdLin | it's for backup. |
| 10:20.22 | Hurrian | EdLin, hosting your own mail servers is so easy nowadays, it's a wonder people don't do it |
| 10:20.44 | EdLin | Hurrian, because they get their email rejected as spam if it comes from an ISP? |
| 10:21.10 | EdLin | yes, there's ways around that, but they're a big hassle. |
| 10:21.34 | EdLin | not to mention filtering the incoming spam. |
| 10:21.35 | Hurrian | EdLin, that happens? I would think that spam filters scan for content |
| 10:21.56 | ArkanoiD_ | got replacement new metawatch |
| 10:22.13 | Hurrian | of course, there is PGP encryption for sending secure messages over public services, but you still don't keep your files on your server |
| 10:22.15 | EdLin | Hurrian, not only content, they care about who connects with them. Let me dig up an old article about what you have to do to avoid gmail and yahoo et. al. dumping your email on the floor. |
| 10:24.24 | EdLin | Hurrian, darn, it's an old article on codinghorror.com, I don't think I bookmarked it and site: in search engines isn't turning it up. |
| 10:25.04 | EdLin | Hurrian, it isn't as simple as just setting up postfix to send to others. |
| 10:26.02 | *** join/#maemo sambo7 (~mIRC@user-164-126-168-152.play-internet.pl) |
| 10:26.17 | EdLin | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/04/so-youd-like-to-send-some-email-through-code.html |
| 10:26.19 | EdLin | here |
| 10:27.50 | EdLin | you have to get your ISP to set up a reverse PTR record for you. |
| 10:28.13 | EdLin | or the big email providers will summarily put it in /dev/null |
| 10:28.32 | EdLin | and there's a bit more after that too. |
| 10:28.56 | sambo7 | Hi,nandtester here-will have to continue with recovering my N900 when back home in Germany...will return tomorrow, so might start on Wednesday...can't do it here,because can't charge my phone here...will let you know,when I continue on that issue |
| 10:30.20 | Hurrian | EdLin, ouch, wow |
| 10:30.33 | zeq | the sigmask syscalls patch from upstream git applied fairly cleanly :) |
| 10:31.05 | EdLin | Hurrian, now you know why people don't set up their own mail servers at home. ;-) |
| 10:31.20 | EdLin | other than as leaf nodes to a hub that has done all of that. |
| 10:33.15 | EdLin | you can thank malware for making this happen, and Microsoft for making malware have such a happy home on PCs. ;-) |
| 10:34.30 | zeq | I run my own mailserver |
| 10:34.52 | zeq | outgoing mail is routed through my isp smtp though |
| 10:35.07 | EdLin | zeq: well, that isn't what we were talking about. |
| 10:35.23 | EdLin | obviously anyone can do that part without a hassle. |
| 10:36.45 | EdLin | of course, there will be a bit of a hassle if you're messing with exim on Debian, but that's Debian's fault for never fixing it. ;-) |
| 10:37.26 | EdLin | but that's a different sort of hassle, of course. |
| 10:38.15 | zeq | Well, I have SPF correctly configured for my domain etc, I have POP3 and IMAP access, and I'm about to add webmail for my gf. |
| 10:38.29 | zeq | Using sendmail! |
| 10:38.35 | EdLin | zeq: OK, but it's outbound via your ISP. |
| 10:39.00 | zeq | just because not everywhere is IPv6 connected |
| 10:39.04 | EdLin | zeq: I remember the old sendmail that ran as root.... :) |
| 10:39.06 | zeq | IPv6 goes out directly |
| 10:39.19 | EdLin | IPv6 <3 |
| 10:39.23 | zeq | IPv4 is via a smarthost |
| 10:39.57 | EdLin | my home router unfortunately is not IPv6 compatible. |
| 10:40.20 | EdLin | I've thought of upgrading it, but it's otherwise a very good and fast router. |
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| 10:41.37 | qwazix | zeq, I think fennec memory usage isn't a bug |
| 10:41.45 | qwazix | check out http://play.qwazix.com/fennec_mem_stats.tar.gz |
| 10:42.08 | qwazix | fennec eats up no less than 150mb even on maemo4 |
| 10:42.24 | qwazix | (all stats with firefox start and tmo open) |
| 10:42.34 | zeq | doesn't mean it isn't a bug |
| 10:43.00 | qwazix | versions vary from 1.1 -> 17.0 |
| 10:43.29 | zeq | still doesn't mean it isn't a bug |
| 10:44.08 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 10:44.18 | qwazix | so it isn't a bug in the sense of something introduced in a version |
| 10:44.30 | zeq | no, that would be a regression |
| 10:44.31 | qwazix | or maybe It's better to say it isnt a regression? |
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| 10:44.53 | qwazix | you beat me to it :) |
| 10:45.11 | qwazix | anyway, check those stats, maybe there is something useful in there |
| 10:45.44 | freemangordon | going to try latest fennec |
| 10:46.19 | qwazix | I tested fennec 1.1 on N810, official fennec from ovi (fremantle), your fennec, harmattan ovi version and linux desktop |
| 10:46.41 | qwazix | I can measure android too if that can be useful |
| 10:46.47 | freemangordon | and? |
| 10:47.00 | zeq | android check might be useful |
| 10:47.01 | freemangordon | what are the conclusions? |
| 10:47.13 | qwazix | freemangordon, http://play.qwazix.com/fennec_mem_stats.tar.gz |
| 10:47.31 | qwazix | I don't have any conclusions, I just packed the data for you. |
| 10:47.33 | zeq | the thing is most devices today have more memory than we do, certainly where desktop firefox runs! |
| 10:47.45 | qwazix | I just saw that it is a ram-hungry beast always |
| 10:47.52 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 10:50.15 | freemangordon | cannot check the stats right now, i am connected via rd from n900 to my desktop, will check later |
| 10:50.19 | zeq | mozilla development is very feature oriented |
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| 10:51.49 | zeq | most developers are focussed on new developments, and probably release branch optimizations don't always get forward ported back into central |
| 10:52.10 | qwazix | will check now on android |
| 10:52.15 | zeq | certainly vendor fixes and optimization seem not to |
| 10:52.40 | qwazix | Did I ever mention I hate android? |
| 10:52.54 | zeq | maybe :) |
| 10:53.23 | qwazix | I'd give a lot of money to have any kind of linux run on the galaxy note |
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| 10:56.30 | qwazix | AARGH, you need root to take screenshots?? |
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| 10:57.34 | qwazix | Ah I forgot, it has a samsung app that does that... |
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| 11:02.44 | qwazix | force close... how sweet.. |
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| 11:06.51 | qwazix | omg!! fennec android 600mb RAM |
| 11:07.16 | qwazix | the native java version |
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| 11:10.40 | freemangordon | hmmm, latest m-c seems much better |
| 11:10.53 | vi__ | ~m-c |
| 11:10.55 | freemangordon | aroun 20MB less usage |
| 11:11.03 | freemangordon | vi__: mozilla-central |
| 11:11.49 | vi__ | so fennec 17.a1-20MB? |
| 11:11.57 | freemangordon | zeq: but it does not resize correctly without your pathc |
| 11:12.05 | freemangordon | vi__: less ;) |
| 11:12.15 | vi__ | sweet! |
| 11:12.28 | freemangordon | uses around 80-85 to open TMO, which is pretty much acceptable |
| 11:13.28 | zeq | freemangordon: did I miss a patch? |
| 11:13.52 | freemangordon | zeq: no, yesterday we concluded that ! patch is not needed |
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| 11:14.00 | freemangordon | now it turns out we were wrong |
| 11:14.04 | zeq | oh |
| 11:14.08 | zeq | ? |
| 11:14.19 | zeq | random failure? |
| 11:14.26 | freemangordon | well, didn't check it with the patch, but without it it does not resize correctly |
| 11:14.37 | zeq | weird |
| 11:15.01 | zeq | it was resizing correctly for me without the patch |
| 11:15.14 | freemangordon | no, fennec seems much faster, it seems the rendering code was optimized |
| 11:15.18 | zeq | Currently the patch isn't in the tree, and hasn't been for a couple of weeks |
| 11:15.30 | freemangordon | yes, and fennec was slow :) |
| 11:15.36 | zeq | that's true |
| 11:15.39 | freemangordon | now it is microbpfast again |
| 11:15.45 | zeq | good! |
| 11:15.47 | freemangordon | microb-fast |
| 11:15.54 | freemangordon | but does not resize correctly |
| 11:15.58 | zeq | I got that :) |
| 11:16.02 | zeq | boo |
| 11:16.04 | freemangordon | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:16.07 | freemangordon | :P |
| 11:16.25 | zeq | did you try it with the missing change? |
| 11:16.36 | freemangordon | no, i've just tried it |
| 11:17.20 | qwazix | the xul version doesn't let me to install it... |
| 11:17.37 | freemangordon | could you push the change, sorry for that, but it is a nightmare to edit via R-D via 3G |
| 11:17.50 | freemangordon | I will build it |
| 11:18.00 | zeq | yes I'll apply it and repush |
| 11:18.06 | freemangordon | qwazix: could you check what exactly is failing? |
| 11:21.07 | qwazix | freemangordon, I was trying to install it on android |
| 11:21.29 | qwazix | I don't think any of us needs to know why it's failing... |
| 11:24.20 | zeq | freemangordon: pushded |
| 11:24.27 | zeq | pushed* |
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| 11:27.37 | freemangordon | qwazix: sorry, misread, i thought it is failing to UNinstall on MAEMO :D |
| 11:27.52 | freemangordon | zeq: ok, will pull and rebuild |
| 11:28.28 | qwazix | freemangordon, it also did that and HAM crashed, but when I went to remove via apt-get it removed successfully |
| 11:28.39 | qwazix | I suppose HAM does autoremove? |
| 11:30.44 | kerio | HAM is awful |
| 11:31.08 | kerio | the only thing it does is reboot after you install packages marked as "reboot after installing" |
| 11:31.46 | qwazix | kerio, not only that |
| 11:32.03 | kerio | oh yeah, it also sucks 12 minutes of my cpu's time every time there's a catalogue update |
| 11:32.04 | kerio | or it starts |
| 11:32.32 | qwazix | it also closes connections and applications when you upgrade maemo |
| 11:32.45 | kerio | that's what i said |
| 11:33.07 | kerio | it reboots after it installs the upgraded metapackage (marked as sys,reboot) |
| 11:33.36 | qwazix | and puts device on offline mode while upgrading |
| 11:33.50 | qwazix | and closes all other applications |
| 11:33.58 | qwazix | and checks if there is enough battery |
| 11:34.06 | qwazix | and enough rootfs space |
| 11:34.18 | qwazix | (and spits out an entirely unhelpful message) |
| 11:34.20 | kerio | yeah, i bet the 12 minutes of cpu grinding are to check those things |
| 11:35.52 | kerio | with just a handful of repos enabled! |
| 11:36.34 | kerio | by the way, is there a reason extras-devel doesn't use diffindex? |
| 11:41.05 | Hurrian | kerio, because diffindex takes a lot of CPU power to crunch? |
| 11:41.20 | Hurrian | it's painful to apt-get update E-D |
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| 11:42.35 | zeq | freemangordon: did you see any of my discussion with DocScrutinizer05 above re sigmask syscalls? |
| 11:42.39 | qwazix | fennec xul on android (1.5 dual core, 1GB ram) is slower than on maemo |
| 11:42.53 | freemangordon | zeq: no |
| 11:43.26 | freemangordon | qwazix: you're not surprised, are you |
| 11:44.23 | qwazix | freemangordon, I knew android sucks, but so much? |
| 11:45.23 | freemangordon | you said it ;) |
| 11:45.38 | Hurrian | qwazix, firefox is unholy slow even with their "native uI" |
| 11:45.44 | zeq | our kernel actually lacks pselect, ppoll et al. which is a twofold problem. Our userspace relies quite a lot on pselect, and unfortunately we rely on the buggy implementation in glibc which a simple test program proves it causes hangs. Doc agreed with me we really should backport the syscalls and use them. |
| 11:46.21 | zeq | I've already patched the kp51, attempting to build now |
| 11:46.47 | freemangordon | what? |
| 11:46.55 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 11:47.04 | freemangordon | zeq: ok, awaiting patches |
| 11:47.34 | freemangordon | zeq: btw you can clone kernel-cssu and work here, Pali will pull the patches for KP from kernel-cssu tree |
| 11:47.45 | zeq | ARM somehow got forgotten despite *me* posting a patch 5 years ago! |
| 11:47.46 | freemangordon | s/here/there/ |
| 11:47.57 | qwazix | Hurrian, with native UI it's acceptable |
| 11:48.09 | qwazix | but still is lacking compared to chrome for android |
| 11:48.30 | Hurrian | still slower than the native browser. it's useless unless you needed something in Gecko. |
| 11:48.36 | zeq | freemangordon: ok. I just need to do a few thinks afk right now... |
| 11:48.42 | zeq | s/thinks/things/ |
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| 11:49.52 | freemangordon | zeq: ok, when you're back the tree is here: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/kernel-cssu |
| 11:50.04 | freemangordon | I know you like gitorious :D |
| 11:50.05 | zeq | freemangordon: http://www.spinics.net/lists/arm-kernel/msg38114.html <-- here's where I tried to fix last time! (and forgot all about it until this morning!) |
| 11:50.22 | zeq | freemangordon: ok thx :) |
| 11:50.52 | bennypr0fane | hello Pali, are you there? |
| 11:51.00 | Pali | yes |
| 11:51.04 | bennypr0fane | Hi! |
| 11:51.22 | bennypr0fane | I have a question about kp51 an u-boot: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1244727&postcount=66 |
| 11:51.26 | freemangordon | zeq: i'll read your discussion with doc later |
| 11:51.45 | zeq | is now afk |
| 11:52.02 | bennypr0fane | I'm not sure which steps to take |
| 11:52.42 | Pali | install uboot from this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 |
| 11:53.15 | bennypr0fane | I already have it installed |
| 11:53.42 | bennypr0fane | but version is 2012.04-1 |
| 11:54.02 | bennypr0fane | how is it best to upgrade? |
| 11:54.13 | qwazix | zeq, I give up with fennec for android, the file I linked has htop screenshots but I couldn't save about:memory for xul version |
| 11:54.45 | Pali | download version 2012.04-2 (DEB packages) and install them |
| 11:54.48 | bennypr0fane | Pali I need to remove .04-1 first? |
| 11:54.58 | Pali | no |
| 11:55.33 | bennypr0fane | so just download, dpkg -i and done? |
| 11:55.45 | Pali | and reboot |
| 11:55.53 | bennypr0fane | ok |
| 11:56.11 | Pali | also, if you want to boot kernel-power, you need to install package kernel-power-bootimg |
| 11:56.28 | bennypr0fane | it's already installes |
| 11:56.32 | bennypr0fane | *installed |
| 11:56.50 | bennypr0fane | will I need to reinstall after u-boot? |
| 11:57.26 | vi__ | ~tmo is trolls, morons and oxen. |
| 11:57.26 | infobot | vi__: cannot alter locked factoids |
| 11:59.57 | qwazix | freemangordon, fennec installs, removes, and autoremoves cleanly now. |
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| 12:00.45 | bennypr0fane | vi__ why are you mentioning that just now? |
| 12:00.46 | Pali | bennypr0fane, if you installed kernel-power-flasher package, yes reinstall u-boot-flasher |
| 12:01.09 | Pali | but if you did not isntalled kernel-poiwer-flasher package now, reinstalling u-boot AGAIN is not needed |
| 12:01.50 | bennypr0fane | no, I meant, after I installed U-Boot, will I need to reinstall kernel-power-bootimg? |
| 12:02.59 | Pali | no |
| 12:03.10 | Pali | just run: u-boot-update-bootmenu |
| 12:03.21 | Pali | this will update uboot bootmenu :-) |
| 12:03.40 | bennypr0fane | ok, thanks |
| 12:04.46 | vi__ | freemangordon: ping |
| 12:10.45 | bennypr0fane | yaaayyy, kp51 successfully booted! thank you Pali! |
| 12:11.02 | Pali | ok |
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| 12:12.35 | bennypr0fane | is anyone in here using nemo on n900? |
| 12:14.23 | bennypr0fane | I can't get Nemo to boot either :-( |
| 12:15.26 | bennypr0fane | It should just boot when U-Boot is installed with the sdcard with Nemo image present - but it always boots Maemo. It used to work before though |
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| 12:50.50 | kerio | hm, the automounter kinda screwed me up |
| 12:51.26 | kerio | it mounted my vfat partition as i was deleting it to make a separate swap partition :s |
| 12:57.05 | kerio | does anyone use the swapset package? |
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| 13:02.30 | zeq | freemangordon: I fetched orig source with debian/rules get_orig_source, unpacked it, then after creating the patch with quilt, what is the correct dpkg-buildpackge command to get clean the tree and attempt to build? I'm obviously doing it wrong because the patches won't apply! |
| 13:04.06 | zeq | (probably because they've already been applied) |
| 13:04.17 | kerio | will removing the back cover also swapoff the swap *partitions* i have on the uSD? |
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| 13:06.08 | zeq | freemangordon: never mind, I've got it I think. |
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| 13:14.14 | kerio | thumb+compcache is pretty great |
| 13:14.18 | kerio | but the back cover thing is kinda bad :s |
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| 13:21.12 | NIN101 | <kerio> will removing the back cover also swapoff the swap *partitions* i have on the uSD? <-- to my knowledge, no. |
| 13:21.20 | kerio | sweet :D |
| 13:23.14 | zeq | freemangordon, Pali: I don't suppose anybody has tried building the kernel with the new toolchian? |
| 13:23.41 | zeq | s/toolchian/toolchain/ |
| 13:23.47 | kerio | i don't suppose anybody has tried building the kernel with the thumb2 instruction set? :D |
| 13:24.03 | zeq | kerio: not a good idea! |
| 13:24.09 | kerio | why not? :c |
| 13:24.10 | zeq | (due to the errata) |
| 13:24.16 | kerio | well, you'd add the errata too |
| 13:24.23 | zeq | the kernel handles the hw bug in userspace |
| 13:24.33 | zeq | who's going to do it for the kernel? ;) |
| 13:24.39 | Pali | zeq, I'm using toolchain in madde |
| 13:24.39 | Pali | zeq, and more times I used ubuntu arm toolchain to build u-boot |
| 13:24.39 | Pali | (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) |
| 13:26.06 | Pali | now kernel + u-boot fit into kernel nand area |
| 13:26.12 | zeq | ok, well, it's not working with linaro-4.7.2012.7 + binutils-2.22 |
| 13:26.21 | Pali | so building kernel with thumb2 (to reduce size) is not needed |
| 13:26.24 | kerio | Pali: k |
| 13:26.29 | zeq | drivers/char/hw_random/omap3-rom-asm.S: Assembler messages: |
| 13:26.31 | zeq | drivers/char/hw_random/omap3-rom-asm.S:20: Error: selected processor does not support ARM mode `smc #1' |
| 13:26.32 | kerio | why do we need to embed the kernel in uboot again? |
| 13:26.50 | Pali | kerio and where you want to add kernel? |
| 13:27.21 | kerio | Pali: idk, the rootfs? |
| 13:27.26 | kerio | maybe /boot |
| 13:27.30 | kerio | kernels usually stay there |
| 13:27.36 | kerio | don't they? |
| 13:27.39 | Pali | kerio, sorry but ubifs driver is too big in uboot |
| 13:27.48 | Pali | and also do not working correctly |
| 13:27.50 | kerio | you'd have a lot of space if you didn't put the kernel in it :D |
| 13:27.52 | kerio | k |
| 13:27.53 | kerio | :c |
| 13:28.09 | Pali | I was not able to read ubifs rootfs in qemu |
| 13:28.12 | kerio | hm |
| 13:28.14 | kerio | shame |
| 13:28.18 | kerio | what about optfs? |
| 13:28.21 | Pali | (where I deleted kernel and added only uboot binary) |
| 13:28.30 | kerio | can uboot access the emmc? |
| 13:28.33 | Pali | kerio, kernels are now read from MyDocs |
| 13:28.41 | kerio | ew, vfat :s |
| 13:28.54 | Pali | yes, fat driver is ok in uboot |
| 13:28.59 | Pali | but what happen if you delete kernel? |
| 13:29.05 | Pali | you will have your device unbootable |
| 13:29.10 | kerio | what happens if you nandtest all the mtd partitions? |
| 13:29.19 | Pali | and you will need to reflash full device |
| 13:29.20 | kerio | that dude did that |
| 13:29.28 | Pali | kerio, you must be root for nandtest |
| 13:29.30 | kerio | people will always find a way to fuck things up |
| 13:29.43 | kerio | Pali: that's why you put the kernel in optfs |
| 13:29.45 | Pali | but deleting files exported to Windows computer is really easy |
| 13:29.54 | kerio | read-only for root :) |
| 13:30.11 | Pali | and if you broke optfs and you want to backup data? |
| 13:30.47 | Pali | really, working kernel in kernel nand area is good idea |
| 13:30.53 | kerio | good point |
| 13:30.59 | Pali | you still have one working kernel |
| 13:31.07 | freemangordon | vi__: pong |
| 13:31.30 | Pali | and if you have installed bootmenu you can export eMMC to host computer |
| 13:31.43 | freemangordon | zeq: ithere was an additional compilers swith in new compilers to support smc instructions |
| 13:31.59 | zeq | freemangordon: I've patched both cssu and kp with the new syscalls |
| 13:32.02 | Pali | or enable ssh via usb network to fix broked maemo parts (I used it more times and I did not need to reflash device) |
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| 13:32.16 | freemangordon | zeq: the rotate/painting issue in fennec might a bug, not related to ! |
| 13:32.32 | freemangordon | zeq: kernel boots? |
| 13:32.35 | zeq | freemangordon: so they've broken our fix? |
| 13:33.00 | zeq | freemangordon: no, idea, build failed due to lack of your above mentioned switch |
| 13:33.04 | freemangordon | zeq: well, looks like more general bug, as scrolling and zoom are broken too |
| 13:33.07 | zeq | it should do though |
| 13:33.11 | freemangordon | zeq: use 4.2.1 |
| 13:33.16 | zeq | patch applied from git quite cleanly |
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| 13:34.28 | zeq | I don't think I happen to have the maemo sdk 4.2.1 compiler :P |
| 13:34.34 | freemangordon | Pali: what's up with KPS 0.15, why x-fade removed it from repos? |
| 13:34.40 | freemangordon | zeq: you have |
| 13:34.50 | freemangordon | FREMANTLE_ARMEL target |
| 13:35.12 | Pali | freemangordon, it was not in repos |
| 13:35.20 | Pali | only in interface |
| 13:35.35 | Pali | but I'm not able to push new version, it still reject it |
| 13:35.59 | freemangordon | Pali: try with 0.16 |
| 13:36.03 | freemangordon | it should work |
| 13:36.37 | kerio | "Changelog: no changes, maemo.org is stupid" |
| 13:36.50 | kerio | freemangordon: 0.15r1! |
| 13:37.18 | freemangordon | kerio: leave the maintainers to decide, ok? |
| 13:37.27 | Pali | I do not know if it will work... I pushed version 0.15, build successfull and maemo.org did not imported it into rpeository |
| 13:37.43 | freemangordon | Pali: yes, because there is 0.15 |
| 13:37.57 | freemangordon | does not matter if it is removed or not |
| 13:38.01 | Pali | but there was no 0.15 before I pushed 0.15 first time |
| 13:38.03 | freemangordon | it exists in DB |
| 13:38.17 | freemangordon | Pali: well, autobuilder, you know :D |
| 13:38.29 | Pali | also ivgalvez wrote that merlin will got maemo package permissions |
| 13:38.43 | Pali | I will wait some days |
| 13:39.02 | freemangordon | I know, but he still does not have, and noone knows when it will happen |
| 13:39.24 | freemangordon | Pali: don't hold your breath |
| 13:39.29 | freemangordon | better push 0.16 |
| 13:41.07 | freemangordon | zeq: you have FREMANTLE_ARMEL target, aren't you? |
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| 13:47.36 | freemangordon | zeq: "<snorp> mfinkle: but nightly has some viewport bustedness too" |
| 13:47.42 | zeq | freemangordon: Yes, I have FREMANTLE_ARMEL target :) cs2007q3-sb8 |
| 13:48.06 | freemangordon | well, that is 4.2.1, try gcc -v |
| 13:48.24 | zeq | indeed it is, I don't know what I was thinking :) |
| 13:48.26 | freemangordon | that is what mortals use to build stuff for Fremantle :P |
| 13:48.44 | freemangordon | zeq: saw my paste from #mobile? |
| 13:49.08 | zeq | for some reason I thought there was some maemo toolchain |
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| 13:49.34 | freemangordon | it is, in FREMANTLE_ARMEL :P |
| 13:49.36 | zeq | yes, I see that, could well be what you are seeing |
| 13:49.45 | freemangordon | i bet on it |
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| 13:50.02 | zeq | freemangordon: cs2007q3-sb8 is a scratchbox toolchain |
| 13:50.20 | freemangordon | I know, I was kidding |
| 13:50.24 | zeq | :) |
| 13:50.40 | freemangordon | anyway, KP is perfectly compilable with it |
| 13:50.43 | zeq | I'll try building with it now |
| 13:50.47 | freemangordon | as is KCSSU |
| 13:51.01 | zeq | will be afk while it compiles though |
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| 13:51.26 | freemangordon | zeq: it is fast, some 10 minutes |
| 13:52.14 | freemangordon | zeq: "<snorp> and still broken today" |
| 13:52.48 | zeq | crap, I don't have my repos set up properly on this target apparently! |
| 13:56.16 | zeq | that's better :) |
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| 13:56.50 | freemangordon | <snorp> AaronMT: or inwards busted too |
| 13:56.52 | freemangordon | <snorp> zooming and panning just totally boned |
| 13:56.54 | freemangordon | <snorp> AaronMT: where is the bug |
| 13:56.59 | freemangordon | zeq: ^^^ |
| 13:57.02 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 13:57.07 | zeq | LOL |
| 13:57.25 | freemangordon | I hate to be right :( |
| 13:57.51 | zeq | keep an eye out when they've fixed it, and I'll rebase again |
| 13:58.30 | zeq | right now I must go do some housework! |
| 13:58.36 | zeq | (kernel build is underway) |
| 13:59.27 | freemangordon | ok |
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| 14:02.47 | vi__ | freemangordon: If I have thumb repo enabled should I disable community-testing? |
| 14:03.21 | freemangordon | vi__: no |
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| 14:04.35 | vi__ | freemangordon: TY |
| 14:05.22 | kerio | hm, what's the rationale for preferring external swap to internal again? |
| 14:05.28 | kerio | internal is faster, isn't it |
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| 14:06.55 | Woody14619a | kerio: I think some are worried that internal causes undue flash wear on a non-removable resource. |
| 14:07.09 | kerio | i see |
| 14:07.12 | kerio | good point |
| 14:07.25 | kerio | also 2gb is bigger than 700mb, so swap fragments less |
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| 14:35.01 | vi__ | kerio: It is to reduce IO collisions. |
| 14:35.55 | kerio | i see |
| 14:35.55 | vi__ | If you are trying to R/W to eMMC it is just a pain in the ass to have to swao there too. |
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| 14:38.09 | MohammadAG | zeq, ping |
| 14:38.13 | zeq | fingers-crossed, going to reboot with new e |
| 14:38.17 | zeq | kernel |
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| 14:38.31 | zeq | MohammadAG: pong |
| 14:38.32 | MohammadAG | I'll ask after the reboot then :P |
| 14:40.33 | zeq | it seems to be working... :D |
| 14:40.58 | MohammadAG | zeq, openwrt again :) |
| 14:40.59 | zeq | so MohammadAG, ask away :) |
| 14:41.04 | zeq | ah |
| 14:41.09 | zeq | ok |
| 14:41.27 | MohammadAG | but basically, this router isn't well known :p |
| 14:41.39 | MohammadAG | DSL-2760U |
| 14:42.15 | zeq | did I miss the question? :) |
| 14:42.28 | zeq | MohammadAG: zeq, openwrt again |
| 14:42.28 | MohammadAG | I don't know where to start :P |
| 14:42.30 | zeq | zeq: ah |
| 14:42.32 | zeq | zeq: ok |
| 14:42.34 | zeq | MohammadAG: but basically, this router isn't well known |
| 14:42.36 | zeq | MohammadAG: DSL-2760U |
| 14:42.40 | MohammadAG | I telnet'd to the stock firmware |
| 14:42.41 | zeq | oh, right.... |
| 14:43.01 | MohammadAG | telnet says BCM96328 Broadband Router |
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| 14:43.44 | zeq | MohammadAG: go on |
| 14:44.10 | MohammadAG | that's what I got :P |
| 14:44.22 | MohammadAG | it's similar to 2765U |
| 14:44.43 | zeq | it's the internals that matter |
| 14:45.29 | zeq | as long as you build for the right chipset and you have the means to flash it you should be able to get something running... |
| 14:45.44 | MohammadAG | cpu model : Broadcom4350 V7.5 |
| 14:46.15 | MohammadAG | do I need some toolkit to build? |
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| 14:46.31 | zeq | there's an sdk for OpenWrt |
| 14:46.32 | MohammadAG | also I found that I have to use kernel 3.3 |
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| 14:46.45 | zeq | it's pretty straightfoward |
| 14:47.02 | zeq | it's configured like the Linux kernel |
| 14:47.22 | MohammadAG | I found this http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://hi.baidu.com/%25BE%25C5%25B6%25A6%25CB%25DC%25BD%25BA/blog/item/d464a924cd063b2dc99559fc.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DOpenWRT%2B2760U%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dubuntu%26hs%3DbmX%26channel%3Dfs%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D557%26prmd%3Dimvnsfd&sa=X&ei=-Z0WUKXFE-eQ4gTO5YC4DQ&ved=0CHQQ7gEwBA |
| 14:47.43 | zeq | your best bet it to build from vcs |
| 14:48.34 | zeq | if you build from the VCS you maximize the chances of your board being supported |
| 14:49.30 | zeq | https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=15201 |
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| 14:49.43 | MohammadAG | and is there a way to make sure I don't brick? |
| 14:49.48 | MohammadAG | since I can't find the stock firmware anywhere |
| 14:50.05 | zeq | can't you back it up from the router web UI? |
| 14:50.12 | MohammadAG | the firmware itself? |
| 14:50.26 | MohammadAG | no, the Web UI is as restricted as it gets |
| 14:50.29 | zeq | there's usually an option to back up the current firmware |
| 14:50.34 | zeq | :( |
| 14:50.37 | zeq | that sucks |
| 14:50.37 | MohammadAG | this is D-Link FW |
| 14:50.51 | MohammadAG | under the hood it's a good router |
| 14:50.58 | MohammadAG | it has telnet, sshd, samba |
| 14:51.13 | MohammadAG | it connects with pppd |
| 14:51.37 | zeq | are there any available tools in shell for firmware? |
| 14:51.43 | MohammadAG | # cat /proc/version |
| 14:51.43 | MohammadAG | Linux version 2.6.30 (root@localhost.localdomain) (gcc version 4.4.2 (Buildroot 2010.02-git) ) #1 Tue Nov 2 14:21:47 CST 2010 |
| 14:51.51 | zeq | that's pretty recent |
| 14:52.08 | MohammadAG | nvram and nvramUpdate |
| 14:52.13 | zeq | I'm surprised you can't find the firmware for it |
| 14:52.21 | MohammadAG | I can find the russian firmware |
| 14:52.27 | MohammadAG | but mine is BN, whatever that is |
| 14:53.02 | MohammadAG | actually this might be it |
| 14:53.04 | MohammadAG | http://www.bergfiles.com/i/bf4a51d40fh32i0 |
| 14:53.29 | zeq | usually routers have a firmware recovery mode |
| 14:53.38 | zeq | so you can reflash your bricked device |
| 14:53.39 | MohammadAG | DSL-2760U-BN_1.07_11022010_cfe_fs_kernel <-- filename |
| 14:53.46 | MohammadAG | this has JTAG I think |
| 14:54.32 | zeq | I mean over ethernet :) |
| 14:54.44 | zeq | unless you can use the JTAG? |
| 14:55.16 | zeq | Your best bet would probably be the OpenWrt forum ^ |
| 14:55.31 | zeq | I'll be back later, but I need to go again now... |
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| 14:59.49 | zeq | freemangordon, Pali: the new kernel works, I need to patch the linux-headers too, to match before rebuilding libc6. |
| 14:59.58 | MohammadAG | I really need to learn chinese |
| 15:00.08 | zeq | is afk |
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| 15:38.58 | zeq | freemangordon, Pali: how should linux-kernel-headers be versioned? shall I just bump the date? |
| 15:39.50 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: ^ |
| 15:39.52 | Pali | zeq, what is problem of linux-kernel-headers? |
| 15:40.53 | zeq | Pali: I'm adding the missing TIF_RESTORE_SIGMASK syscalls |
| 15:41.02 | zeq | ie pselect() etc |
| 15:41.11 | Pali | zeq, that should be patched in kernel-power |
| 15:41.15 | Pali | package: linux-kernel-power-headers |
| 15:41.32 | zeq | glibc needs to be rebuild with the new syscalls |
| 15:41.47 | zeq | that builds against linux-kernel-headers |
| 15:41.58 | zeq | or am I missing something? |
| 15:42.14 | Pali | please do not touch SDK kernel packages (like linux-kernel-headers) |
| 15:42.31 | Pali | kernel-power/kernel-cssu is place to patch |
| 15:42.57 | Pali | linux-kernel-power-headers provides same what linux-kernel-headers |
| 15:43.12 | zeq | are you sure? |
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| 15:43.28 | zeq | I thought it provided headers in /usr/src |
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| 15:43.38 | zeq | with symlink via /lib/boot... |
| 15:43.46 | Pali | zeq, no |
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| 15:44.12 | Pali | linux-kernel-power-headers comes from kernel-power; linux-kernel-headers comes from kernel |
| 15:44.36 | Pali | both has same, files in /usr/include |
| 15:45.09 | zeq | Pali: sorry, ok, but there are packages providing kernel headers as described abovee |
| 15:45.13 | zeq | above* |
| 15:45.48 | Pali | kernel headers are in kernel-power-headers (or kernel-headers) |
| 15:46.28 | Pali | user include files (e.g. /usr/include/linux/something.h) are in linux-kernel-headers and linux-kernel-power-headers |
| 15:46.31 | zeq | Pali: see dpkg -L kernel-power-headers |
| 15:46.43 | Pali | zeq, linux-kernel-power-headers |
| 15:46.56 | Pali | add *linux-* prefix |
| 15:47.07 | zeq | oh, right |
| 15:47.43 | zeq | and that gets built along with the kernel, yes? |
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| 15:47.50 | zeq | or no...? |
| 15:49.48 | zeq | answer is yes |
| 15:49.58 | zeq | So I've already updated the headers :) |
| 15:50.04 | zeq | that makes like easier :) |
| 15:50.21 | zeq | Now I just need to build glibc against the new headers |
| 15:50.49 | zeq | with the only issue the lack of support in sb/qemu :( |
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| 15:54.07 | Pali | zeq, yes linux-kernel-power-headers are build with kernel-power |
| 15:54.09 | zeq | the most recent available qemu devkit binary does have support for pselect() |
| 15:54.32 | zeq | but not ppoll() for some odd reason |
| 15:54.38 | Pali | zeq, use linaro qemu |
| 15:55.00 | zeq | there's a devkit I can download? |
| 15:55.12 | zeq | Pali: do you have a link? |
| 15:55.14 | Pali | linaro qemu is included in ubuntu 12.04 |
| 15:55.23 | zeq | I don't have ubuntu |
| 15:55.36 | zeq | but I guess I can extract it from the deb |
| 15:55.42 | Pali | if you need binaries, just download deb packages |
| 15:55.59 | zeq | that works with scratchbox though? |
| 15:56.26 | Pali | http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/qemu-user-static |
| 15:56.29 | zeq | I spent a good part of my weekend trying to get >1.0 qemu working with scratchbox |
| 15:56.31 | Pali | this is static linked version |
| 15:56.51 | Pali | static linked version does not depends on other libraries, so should work |
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| 15:57.42 | Pali | but I did not tested it in scratchbox... |
| 15:58.15 | zeq | scratchbox requires qemu to be linked with libsb |
| 15:58.29 | zeq | along with very strict glibc version |
| 15:58.36 | zeq | it's a PITA |
| 15:59.07 | zeq | life is much easier with SB2 |
| 15:59.42 | Pali | why must be qemu linked with libsb? |
| 16:00.09 | zeq | because scratchbox 1 is very hacky |
| 16:00.15 | Pali | also dynamic linked version is here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/qemu-system |
| 16:00.21 | Pali | maybe you can try to recompile it |
| 16:00.44 | zeq | I have qemu on my system but SB requires --sbox-call parameter |
| 16:00.45 | Pali | so other reason why not ti use sb1 |
| 16:01.29 | zeq | I'm going to switch to SB2, but I wanted to make sure nobody else *had* to just because I'm fixing the pselect() hang bug :/ |
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| 16:04.26 | zeq | I patched recent qemu from debian to have --sbox-call, and linked it with libsb, but I didn't have the exactly right glibc to link with because recent qemu won't build against the ancient version sb is built with. |
| 16:05.01 | zeq | I was chasing my own tail for hours :( |
| 16:09.50 | MohammadAG | so how does one edit a file with no nano/vi |
| 16:09.54 | MohammadAG | or sed |
| 16:10.47 | zeq | MohammadAG: creating a new file can be done with cat > file <<EOF |
| 16:11.24 | zeq | do you have ed? |
| 16:11.32 | MohammadAG | zeq, I gave up on OpenWRT on the thing |
| 16:11.43 | MohammadAG | I just want to hand over all IPs to my router |
| 16:12.18 | zeq | Creating a custom OpenWrt build is quite a task |
| 16:12.20 | MohammadAG | I edited the file, dropped http server, still doesn't work |
| 16:13.01 | zeq | is afk again |
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| 16:15.14 | MohammadAG | oh yay, it works outside LAN |
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| 16:22.50 | teotwaki | Here's a good WTF |
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| 16:23.01 | teotwaki | In a real-time monitoring application for our server |
| 16:23.38 | teotwaki | if a user, connected and actively using said server, has an "f" as the third letter of his username, he may not be displayed in the real-time monitoring app. |
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| 16:24.20 | teotwaki | and by "he may" I mean, there's a very precise 4/10 chance he may not be displayed. |
| 16:25.16 | teotwaki | so user ffuuuuu will always be displayed correctly, but user fffuuuu will not. |
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| 17:16.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol |
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| 17:21.12 | freemangordon | zeq: I still fail to see why you need new lqemu |
| 17:21.20 | freemangordon | qemu even |
| 17:21.46 | freemangordon | we don't need it working in SB, but on the device |
| 17:21.53 | freemangordon | AIUI |
| 17:21.56 | zeq | that's true |
| 17:22.25 | zeq | except for anything build related on sb |
| 17:22.33 | freemangordon | binaries build in SB (with old libc and qemu) will work (hopefully) on the device |
| 17:22.33 | zeq | I don't know how much that applies to |
| 17:22.48 | zeq | but then it doesn't matter if sb has a different C lib |
| 17:22.58 | zeq | (as long as it's the same version) |
| 17:23.06 | zeq | it's ABI that matters afterall |
| 17:23.07 | freemangordon | zeq: we'll not upgrade libc in SB |
| 17:23.21 | freemangordon | only on device |
| 17:23.32 | freemangordon | that way there is no need for new qemu |
| 17:23.38 | zeq | yeah, it doesn't matter if one uses glibc emultation and the kernel syscall |
| 17:23.44 | zeq | yep |
| 17:23.45 | freemangordon | (and your time is saved) |
| 17:24.13 | zeq | yep |
| 17:24.45 | freemangordon | zeq: BTW https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778580 |
| 17:24.46 | povbot_ | 04Bug 778580: was not found. |
| 17:24.57 | freemangordon | see the duplicates :D |
| 17:25.14 | zeq | wow |
| 17:25.29 | zeq | somebody really screwed up! |
| 17:25.31 | zeq | :) |
| 17:31.28 | zeq | building glibc against patched headers |
| 17:31.58 | freemangordon | good for zeq :P |
| 17:32.23 | zeq | will be if it works ;) |
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| 18:16.24 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ -- N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 18:26.59 | zeq | apart from running out of space on my rootfs, it works! |
| 18:33.59 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 18:34.17 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@146.90.189.50) |
| 18:35.18 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 18:36.36 | zeq | I don't suppose there's any way to compact the dpkg status and available databases? |
| 18:36.47 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@190.143.217.227) |
| 18:40.00 | user_ | why? |
| 18:42.07 | zeq | I've run out of rootfs, and they seem to be taking a lot of it |
| 18:42.28 | zeq | right now though, I don't seem able to boot! O_o |
| 18:43.25 | zeq | I had to delete bootimg to get the libc6 install to complete (run out of that much space) |
| 18:44.11 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.229.210) |
| 18:44.12 | zeq | that shouldn't stop it booting though, or... |
| 18:44.17 | user_ | zeq that is heavy. |
| 18:44.30 | user_ | If you can sy |
| 18:44.35 | user_ | oops |
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| 18:44.57 | user_ | if you can boot, you can symlink shitloads of stuff to opt. |
| 18:45.09 | user_ | locales etc |
| 18:45.37 | user_ | a lot of stuff in /usr/bin that should be on opt etc. |
| 18:45.38 | zeq | I don't think it's going to :( |
| 18:45.40 | zeq | what a pain |
| 18:45.46 | zeq | :( |
| 18:45.48 | user_ | ze |
| 18:46.05 | user_ | the fuck is wrong with my keyboard? |
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| 18:49.48 | zeq | you know, it gets worse |
| 18:50.10 | zeq | apparently my MyDocs is corrupt too |
| 18:53.30 | zeq | BM terminal is working :) |
| 18:54.30 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.216.44) |
| 18:55.50 | zeq | why would BM terminal work but normal boot not? |
| 18:56.22 | zeq | I think something broke when it ran out of rootfs |
| 18:57.15 | freemangordon | zeq: how big is libc? |
| 18:58.00 | zeq | ~800kb |
| 18:58.30 | zeq | funny thing is I've now got lots of rootfs space!?! |
| 18:58.41 | zeq | 24M |
| 18:59.00 | zeq | freemangordon: is bootimg needed to boot? |
| 18:59.50 | zeq | I thought it would work with just the image on NAND |
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| 19:02.37 | freemangordon | zeq: bootimg is not needed |
| 19:03.25 | zeq | I think my ubifs went crazy |
| 19:03.43 | zeq | after rebooting from BM I've rebooted without problems |
| 19:06.13 | zeq | freemangordon: you saw me say it worked? |
| 19:06.39 | zeq | kernel + libc I mean |
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| 19:16.29 | vi__ | ze |
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| 19:17.24 | zeq | think my battery might be playing up |
| 19:17.47 | zeq | not charging |
| 19:18.07 | freemangordon | zeq: great |
| 19:18.19 | freemangordon | libc i mean :) |
| 19:18.37 | zeq | yeah, that went well, my battery not so much! |
| 19:18.48 | zeq | I'll dig out a spare |
| 19:21.00 | freemangordon | zeq: did you run the test program? |
| 19:21.10 | zeq | I can't boot again |
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| 19:21.30 | zeq | all my batteries are flat and seem not to want to change! |
| 19:21.35 | zeq | charge |
| 19:22.00 | zeq | phone fault? |
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| 19:25.36 | zeq | seems to be charging now |
| 19:26.39 | zeq | I'll let it charge to green |
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| 19:33.10 | zeq | I need to stop running my batteries down so low |
| 19:33.16 | zeq | I'm up and running again |
| 19:33.21 | kerio | yay |
| 19:33.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | call me docFool! When looking into calendar before elaving office, I noticed I am tagged 'holiday' for the whole week |
| 19:33.43 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@190.143.231.237) |
| 19:33.57 | zeq | my locales are b0rken again! hehe |
| 19:34.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | too late, I already got appointments for wednesday and fri |
| 19:34.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | zeq: wtf are U doing? |
| 19:35.06 | zeq | I'm running my new libc with pselect() support |
| 19:35.10 | zeq | :D |
| 19:35.24 | zeq | kernel pselect() support |
| 19:35.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | how's that killing the locale? |
| 19:35.42 | zeq | goodness knows |
| 19:36.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | you fixed it this morning? |
| 19:36.12 | zeq | yep |
| 19:36.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | no clue what been wrong? |
| 19:36.48 | Estel_ | zeq, lol, own patches are hardest to back or forward-port;) |
| 19:37.14 | Estel_ | zeq, don't worry, my .ogg and theora playback was also killed for no reason, only nuking everything gstreamer related and installing from scratch fixed it |
| 19:37.28 | Estel_ | no reason why locale couldn't act the same ;) |
| 19:37.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | XP |
| 19:41.02 | zeq | something wrong with the libc6 locale support I think :S |
| 19:41.09 | zeq | weird |
| 19:41.18 | ZogG_laptop | X-Fade: Woody14619 ping |
| 19:41.28 | ZogG_laptop | X-Fade: Woody14619 apps4meego is down |
| 19:42.00 | Woody14619 | Is it? |
| 19:43.20 | ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: 502 |
| 19:43.23 | zeq | locales are available, but changing locale triggers the watchdog! |
| 19:43.29 | Woody14619 | Is that even Nokia hosted? |
| 19:43.42 | ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: not only me getting it, as well client wouldn't work too |
| 19:43.53 | zeq | that's how it seems |
| 19:44.41 | ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i dunno, but last we had thiis proble X-Fade fixed it, as he is not much around here, you maybe know way to contact him? btw ask him who else can be contacted in emergency cases |
| 19:45.58 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: do I need to do something to update the watchdog watch list? |
| 19:46.04 | Woody14619 | X-Fade is off for the night. I can try a back channel, but good odds he's aware of the issue. When a server goes down, most IT groups have pagers going off... Since local time is well after work hours it may take sometime for them to get it fixed though. |
| 19:46.50 | Estel_ | zeq, You realize that app4meego is doomed, anyway? |
| 19:46.59 | Estel_ | i.e. no plans to support it after nokia plugs off? |
| 19:47.06 | Estel_ | until i missed something for those 3 weeks |
| 19:47.12 | Estel_ | s/for/due/ |
| 19:47.23 | Estel_ | zew, sorry for pinging You, i mean ZogG |
| 19:47.31 | Estel_ | zeq even |
| 19:47.37 | zeq | no worries |
| 19:48.43 | ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: it's ok, i just wonder if her knows |
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| 19:58.09 | zeq | freemangordon: ping |
| 19:58.36 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~etrunko@201.53.192.112) |
| 19:59.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: watchdog watchlist? no such thing on maemo5, thanks to the holy flying spaghettimonster |
| 20:00.07 | zeq | ok, well something definitely seems to be triggering the watchdog :S |
| 20:00.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: it's just fremantle doesn't handle locale in any sane or faintly familiar way |
| 20:01.30 | zeq | I don't understand why rebuilding the same libc works fine but triggers reboot on setting locale |
| 20:01.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and probably some process that thinks it can't live without *standard* (as in Nokia standard) locale infra will blow chunks and pull the whole system into orcus, via dsme |
| 20:01.57 | zeq | I'm still using posix-locales |
| 20:02.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | fremantle doesn't |
| 20:02.13 | zeq | even reinstalled it to make sure, and the locales are available in the list |
| 20:02.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't rebuild locale-cache |
| 20:02.30 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@90-230-114-186-no34.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:02.46 | zeq | so wtf is happening? |
| 20:03.22 | *** join/#maemo toxaris (~toxaris@90-230-114-186-no34.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:03.39 | zeq | WTF did Nokia make the translations secret source? |
| 20:04.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the fun of it, and NIH |
| 20:05.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | look into modest (for example) .desktop file. there's the age old known way to have name[EN]=foo name[ZC]=bar. Nokia doesn't use that and invented their own shit |
| 20:06.42 | zeq | can't we just run sed on all this and make it standard l10n? |
| 20:06.46 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@unaffiliated/ex-opesa) |
| 20:07.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | since we dunno how to extract the real names from locale-blob, we can't |
| 20:07.31 | zeq | I still don't understand why rebuilding the same glibc version breaks the locale cache |
| 20:07.50 | Estel_ | voodoo programing. |
| 20:07.51 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 20:07.59 | zeq | hmmm |
| 20:08.14 | zeq | something has to be decoding it |
| 20:08.27 | RST38h | moos at Doc |
| 20:08.42 | RST38h | ah, the locales... |
| 20:08.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Name=mcen_ap_name |
| 20:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Comment=mcen_ap_name_thumb |
| 20:08.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Exec=/usr/bin/modest -t 30 |
| 20:08.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF?! |
| 20:09.02 | zeq | is there a patch missing in the libc6 src pkg? |
| 20:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | mcen_ap_name_THUMB???????? |
| 20:09.24 | zeq | LOL |
| 20:10.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah thumbnail |
| 20:10.22 | zeq | ah |
| 20:10.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway that's your modest.desktop |
| 20:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you haven't guessed |
| 20:10.50 | zeq | I don't need to guess Doc |
| 20:11.02 | zeq | I'm not getting any but that crap |
| 20:12.02 | zeq | maybe the glibc patches aren't getting applied, I'm going to check carefully |
| 20:12.37 | zeq | how many bloody patches did they need?!? |
| 20:13.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I once planned to do a lil fancy, open a requester with all the available apps' names and user tags those who shall autostart on boot. On finding this BULLSHIT in modest.desktop Name=mcen_ap_name I gave up |
| 20:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's obviously ZERO way to transcode mcen_ap_name to "email" (or whatever it's in your locale) on cmdline |
| 20:15.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you build your own RE'd lookup table |
| 20:15.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks Nokia! RLY |
| 20:16.05 | *** join/#maemo rcg1 (~rc@f053145119.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:16.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | >:-( |
| 20:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi RST38h |
| 20:17.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, what weapon needs product manager to use to make devels code such BS? |
| 20:18.25 | freemangordon | zeq: pong |
| 20:19.09 | freemangordon | zeq: I suspect using HAM to upgrade libc won;t trigger the watchdog ;) |
| 20:19.29 | zeq | freemangordon: it's not that installing libc triggers it |
| 20:19.34 | freemangordon | but? |
| 20:19.39 | zeq | but the locale gets cleared |
| 20:19.46 | freemangordon | it breaks locales? |
| 20:19.46 | zeq | then when setting it reboot |
| 20:19.54 | zeq | yeah |
| 20:20.01 | freemangordon | zeq: I suspect your device is FUBAR |
| 20:20.12 | zeq | Doc reckons it's the crazy Nokia translations |
| 20:20.13 | freemangordon | better falsh it |
| 20:20.20 | freemangordon | flash even |
| 20:20.35 | freemangordon | zeq: you have only ione n900? |
| 20:20.38 | freemangordon | *one |
| 20:20.48 | zeq | freemangordon: it did this, this morning, when I had a glibc with broken pselect() |
| 20:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: check /var/*/*/dsme/rebootcounters or whatever it's called |
| 20:21.13 | zeq | when I reinstalled stock libc, _and_ then reinstalled posix-locales |
| 20:21.17 | zeq | it was back to normal. |
| 20:21.35 | freemangordon | vi__: zeq has only one n900, can we do something about it ;) |
| 20:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: ^^^ |
| 20:22.59 | freemangordon | zeq: I have to go afk, GF needs my attention ;), but anyway I think you need a development device |
| 20:23.10 | Woody14619 | I'm confused doc... what are you wanting me to look at? |
| 20:23.29 | zeq | freemangordon: maybe Estel_ can sell me one |
| 20:23.36 | freemangordon | Woody14619: a development device for zeq |
| 20:23.36 | zeq | see you later |
| 20:23.41 | freemangordon | dd |
| 20:23.44 | freemangordon | oops |
| 20:23.45 | freemangordon | bb |
| 20:23.49 | freemangordon | :) |
| 20:24.22 | freemangordon | zeq: naah, it will cost you an arm, a leg and 30 years of slavery :P |
| 20:24.25 | freemangordon | bb guys |
| 20:24.36 | Woody14619 | Given what's going on with Nokia right now, I'm not sure we can move something like that. :( |
| 20:24.37 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: reboot_count currently at 20 |
| 20:24.51 | zeq | going to set locale and see where it ends up |
| 20:24.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | you found the friggin files? |
| 20:24.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | path? |
| 20:25.38 | freemangordon | hmm, GF playing angry birds on n950 :D:D:D |
| 20:26.07 | freemangordon | Woody14619: could you organize some donation from the community |
| 20:26.18 | freemangordon | we already did that for DavyP |
| 20:26.26 | Estel_ | zeq, sell what?:) |
| 20:26.31 | freemangordon | n900 |
| 20:27.04 | Estel_ | sure, I can |
| 20:27.39 | Estel_ | For devoted developer like zeq I could even do it under costs, as a way of my donation (i'm to poor to donate enough in monetary way) |
| 20:27.41 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.119.165.49) |
| 20:27.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | where's the friggin dsme logs about reboots?? |
| 20:27.56 | freemangordon | Estel_: lets see if community can donate one device like it did for DavyP |
| 20:28.03 | freemangordon | vi__: where are you man |
| 20:28.05 | Estel_ | zeq, if You're interested, I can find a device for 150 euro, of course reinforcing port myself |
| 20:28.06 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: what is the prompt after setting to save locale? |
| 20:28.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: ^^^ |
| 20:28.14 | Estel_ | freemangordon, I see |
| 20:28.27 | zeq | waiting for reboot |
| 20:28.30 | Estel_ | sure, if Community can, why not :) |
| 20:28.47 | zeq | that would be cool :D |
| 20:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: ? prompt after setting to save locale ?? |
| 20:29.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | please rephrase |
| 20:29.05 | Estel_ | merlin1991 bought device the same way from me, and I think he is satisfied :) |
| 20:29.20 | Estel_ | (cheapest I was able to find, exactly 150 euro) |
| 20:29.54 | freemangordon | Estel_: not so long ago zeq had a problems with his washing machine, better spend those on a new one :P |
| 20:30.02 | zeq | Estel_: if I can't get one from community I'll probably take you up |
| 20:30.16 | Estel_ | freemangordon, so either vi__ and DavyP way, or ping me zeq or You :) |
| 20:30.17 | zeq | freemangordon: yeah... |
| 20:30.26 | zeq | priorities eh? |
| 20:30.29 | Estel_ | washing machine, huh. dish, or clothes one? |
| 20:30.30 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 20:30.36 | freemangordon | GFs ;) |
| 20:30.51 | Estel_ | ah, this kind of washing machine? |
| 20:31.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, I can't find the dsme logs |
| 20:31.03 | Estel_ | sounds quite sexist, though |
| 20:31.12 | freemangordon | Estel_: it does not matter, they are not cheap :D |
| 20:31.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: where's your bootcount? |
| 20:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: path? |
| 20:31.33 | Estel_ | freemangordon, sure, but I'm experienced on repairing both, and many times, problems are trivial to solve :D |
| 20:31.46 | freemangordon | repairing GFs? |
| 20:31.47 | zeq | it's now 0 |
| 20:31.53 | Estel_ | unless You mean GF as washing machine, meh |
| 20:31.56 | zeq | ? |
| 20:31.58 | freemangordon | Estel_: :P |
| 20:32.02 | Estel_ | freemangordon, this one too ;) |
| 20:32.15 | Estel_ | photo aplications required, though |
| 20:32.22 | Estel_ | erm I mean |
| 20:32.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: what command do you issue to get result <bootcount>? |
| 20:32.24 | Estel_ | photo of problem |
| 20:32.36 | Estel_ | not necessary macro |
| 20:32.56 | freemangordon | Estel_: anyway, I think vi__ will do the job wight |
| 20:32.59 | Estel_ | freemangordon, now pray that Your Gf doesn't break into your irc logs ;) |
| 20:33.00 | freemangordon | *right |
| 20:33.02 | Estel_ | mee to |
| 20:33.05 | Estel_ | me even |
| 20:33.15 | Estel_ | and me too ;) and me! and me! |
| 20:33.17 | zeq | I'm wondering if it might be I'm clicking on a reboot icon but can't read the label... |
| 20:33.19 | Estel_ | all 3 of us |
| 20:33.28 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 20:33.30 | zeq | can somebody please try changing their language |
| 20:33.41 | Estel_ | da, zeq, zdrastwujcie |
| 20:33.41 | freemangordon | zeq: why? |
| 20:33.42 | zeq | and tell me what prompt appears after saving |
| 20:33.51 | freemangordon | hold on |
| 20:33.53 | zeq | could it be "reboot now" |
| 20:33.57 | zeq | ? |
| 20:34.12 | freemangordon | zeq: for sure you need a reboot if you change the language |
| 20:34.23 | vi__ | I need help. |
| 20:34.25 | freemangordon | lemme fire my devel device |
| 20:34.28 | vi__ | ... |
| 20:34.33 | freemangordon | vi__: we need to |
| 20:34.36 | Estel_ | vi__, with Gf? suuure |
| 20:34.38 | freemangordon | too |
| 20:34.52 | Estel_ | start with taking a screwdriver... |
| 20:34.58 | vi__ | hah, ms vi_ would roundhouse you to the head. |
| 20:35.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | is off for dinner, since this thing drives him mad |
| 20:35.17 | vi__ | my keymap has gone insane. |
| 20:35.19 | zeq | enjoy doc |
| 20:35.28 | vi__ | and I cannot get it back. |
| 20:35.36 | Estel_ | vi__, setxkbmap <your_language_code> ? |
| 20:35.40 | freemangordon | vi__: could you please read the backscroll |
| 20:35.43 | Estel_ | or rx-51? |
| 20:36.15 | *** join/#maemo njsf (~njsf@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 20:36.18 | Estel_ | zeq, BTW, are you comfortable with soldering iron? |
| 20:36.31 | freemangordon | zeq: "All applications will be closed and device will restart. Continue anyway?" |
| 20:36.59 | freemangordon | is afk |
| 20:37.05 | vi__ | hw do I tell what keymap is loaded? |
| 20:37.36 | zeq | ah! |
| 20:37.55 | zeq | okay it's just not translating then |
| 20:38.11 | zeq | I've rebuilt without -mthumb |
| 20:38.25 | zeq | lets see what happens |
| 20:38.54 | vi__ | my keyboard has reverted back to stock layout. |
| 20:39.04 | *** join/#maemo kodomo (~gregor@g225089113.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:39.07 | zeq | if that doesn't work, I'll set it back to softfloat |
| 20:39.12 | vi__ | And it wont go back to the way I want. |
| 20:39.23 | vi__ | I have setxkvd us |
| 20:39.32 | zeq | maybe the Nokia translation mechanism uses FP?!? O_o |
| 20:39.34 | vi__ | but it does fuck all |
| 20:39.42 | vi__ | WTF is going on. |
| 20:40.01 | vi__ | I am about ready to launch my n900 of a long cliff. |
| 20:40.26 | zeq | vi__: that will permanently fix the layout |
| 20:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: wait a little, i'm not yet there to catch it |
| 20:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously L18N day |
| 20:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | err L10N |
| 20:41.52 | zeq | :) |
| 20:41.59 | vi__ | I can set the keymap to it for example. |
| 20:42.07 | vi__ | and it works like the it map |
| 20:42.34 | vi__ | FUCK THIS PIECE OF SHIT. |
| 20:43.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, now your capslock mapping got borked |
| 20:43.37 | zeq | freemangordon: HAM says update incompatible |
| 20:43.40 | zeq | fyi |
| 20:43.54 | vi__ | wait |
| 20:43.56 | vi__ | ... |
| 20:44.21 | vi__ | what EXACTLY does that piece of fucking retarded hildon welcome shit fucking do? |
| 20:45.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | good question |
| 20:45.09 | zeq | vi__: probably the app that appears to set the time sometimes when the battery is removed? |
| 20:45.29 | zeq | or is that called something else? |
| 20:45.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, I guess he meant that one |
| 20:45.49 | zeq | I shouldn't have run HAM |
| 20:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | PAH! HAHH! |
| 20:46.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | locate dsme |
| 20:47.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts |
| 20:47.45 | freemangordon | zeq: but of course, i meant lbc as a part of -mp thingie :) |
| 20:48.03 | freemangordon | *libc |
| 20:48.27 | zeq | Doc see above, I was unknowingly clicking on reboot device |
| 20:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | who T F F would look in var/lib for some statistics |
| 20:48.48 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@105.Red-79-156-82.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:48.49 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 20:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: waaaait WUT? you rebooted, not some watchdog??? |
| 20:50.10 | vi__ | sonovvabitch. |
| 20:50.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | heads out for dinner now, for good |
| 20:50.53 | vi__ | add 1 more thing to the list of really retarded things nokia made your N900 do. |
| 20:51.12 | vi__ | hildon welcome HOSES YOUR KEYMAP |
| 20:51.31 | vi__ | I apologise for my outburst. |
| 20:51.36 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, how embarrassing |
| 20:51.43 | freemangordon | vi__: please check backscroll, zeq needs a devel devi9ce |
| 20:52.57 | vi__ | are you suggesting I give him mine or is this a serious request to try and make it happen? |
| 20:55.18 | *** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.201.107.179) |
| 20:56.59 | vi__ | here is a question. |
| 20:57.25 | vi__ | where did hildon-welcome get a copy of the original unmodified keymap? |
| 20:57.53 | vi__ | to copy over the modified rx-51? |
| 20:58.10 | vi__ | has it got a secret backup stashed away? |
| 20:59.49 | vi__ | zeq: do you really need a dev device? |
| 21:00.15 | vi__ | also how does the new usb hostmode work? |
| 21:00.59 | zeq | vi__: it would be really handy, I'm when I break things I'm without a primary device |
| 21:01.16 | zeq | it would also let me test things out more easily |
| 21:02.12 | zeq | like right now I'm without any translations from working on libc6, and the lables are rather cryptic! |
| 21:03.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: there has to be a whole bunch of secret phantom files. At very least for factory-reset |
| 21:03.10 | vi__ | well, we could start a donations drive on TMO. |
| 21:03.29 | vi__ | It worked for davyp. |
| 21:03.42 | vi__ | However the device he go was a real shitter. |
| 21:03.56 | vi__ | It worked, but it was quite fucked. |
| 21:04.21 | vi__ | zeq would you need one with a USB port? |
| 21:04.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | LOL |
| 21:04.45 | vi__ | although davyp was a lot more 'visible' on the forum. |
| 21:04.50 | *** join/#maemo XenonXZ (~AndChat20@16.90.112.87.dyn.plus.net) |
| 21:05.03 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: go for dinner already! |
| 21:05.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm already eating :-P |
| 21:05.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | rx-51 you know ;-) |
| 21:06.03 | zeq | vi__: usb port is rather handy for flashing, and charging if nothing else... |
| 21:06.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | I probably can get used N900 in rather good condition for less than 150 |
| 21:07.03 | *** join/#maemo Woody14619 (~Woody@66-162-186-66.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 21:07.03 | *** join/#maemo Woody14619 (~Woody@Maemo/Community/council/Woody14619) |
| 21:07.05 | *** join/#maemo AliasXZ (~user@16.90.112.87.dyn.plus.net) |
| 21:07.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | or find them yourself on ebay |
| 21:08.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | WITHworking usb |
| 21:09.34 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@85-156-53-160.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 21:10.19 | *** join/#maemo leochencipher (~user@507080F7.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 21:10.24 | *** join/#maemo EdLin (~EdLin@securabit/listener/edlin) |
| 21:11.22 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: I bought my last N900 on ebay,, supposedly new, but not really. I was really worried about the USB port (always am) |
| 21:11.38 | *** join/#maemo k-way (~keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 21:11.41 | zeq | I've had two devices fail that way :( |
| 21:12.01 | AliasXZ | u strengthened it with solder etc? not done mine yet, seems ok... |
| 21:12.18 | *** join/#maemo Elleo (~Elleo@mikeasoft.com) |
| 21:12.18 | *** join/#maemo Elleo (~Elleo@libre.fm/hacker/elleo) |
| 21:12.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, some precausions will stop that problem |
| 21:12.29 | zeq | Nokia stole the second one, they insisted on replacing it with an E7, which gf subsequently got stolen within a couple of weeks! |
| 21:12.40 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:12.59 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: euro? |
| 21:13.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually each monkey can solder down a working USB |
| 21:13.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: yep |
| 21:13.17 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: can you solder down the USB? |
| 21:13.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 21:13.33 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: do you have a paypal account? |
| 21:13.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 21:13.55 | *** join/#maemo luca_ (~luca@i5E8796EC.versanet.de) |
| 21:14.36 | vi__ | so if we raised 150 euro on TMO, you could get zeq a second n900? |
| 21:14.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | probably |
| 21:15.03 | vi__ | probably or can? |
| 21:15.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | make that 130, 20 are already in from me |
| 21:15.49 | vi__ | I see your 20 and match it. |
| 21:15.56 | zeq | :) |
| 21:16.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: I forgot my crystal ball at home |
| 21:16.02 | zeq | thanks guys! |
| 21:16.33 | vi__ | zeq: dont count your cows till your chickens come home yet. |
| 21:16.52 | zeq | I appreciate the support :) |
| 21:17.14 | vi__ | zeq: have you and FMG 'announced' fennec yet? |
| 21:18.17 | zeq | FMG put it in the thumb repo, but we're not happy to announce it until we've resolved some current breakage in mozilla-central |
| 21:18.18 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.199.203) |
| 21:19.00 | vi__ | am I allowed to talk about it? |
| 21:19.12 | zeq | sure |
| 21:19.20 | zeq | but with warnings |
| 21:19.29 | zeq | it's not ready yet |
| 21:19.43 | vi__ | IE tomorrow when I make a post and I am listing why you NEED a device can I mention you and FMG are brewing up fennec. |
| 21:19.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: as soon as I find a good used one For reasonable pricemI can get it |
| 21:20.00 | zeq | of course :) |
| 21:20.07 | vi__ | it is alpha etc, not really released. |
| 21:20.16 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: good. |
| 21:20.35 | vi__ | A lot of people want fennec. |
| 21:21.20 | vi__ | With Qwazix saying "it is better than fennec on dualcore 1.5MHz androids with 1GB RAM. |
| 21:21.28 | vi__ | hype shall be made. |
| 21:21.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | I don't care too much, but I want zeq in and activ |
| 21:22.06 | zeq | vi__: it has potential to work well, but we need to get the memory consumption down |
| 21:22.14 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: I cocour, however to have a sucessful donation drive you have to ride a wave of hype. |
| 21:22.25 | vi__ | ^concour. |
| 21:22.45 | zeq | ok :) |
| 21:22.48 | vi__ | zeq: And that is why it is still alpha and you need another one. |
| 21:22.53 | vi__ | ! |
| 21:23.50 | vi__ | I moved to a new house. I live on the bottom floor away from the street looking into the garden through big windows. There are 2 foxes who play here every night. |
| 21:23.55 | vi__ | and a badger too. |
| 21:24.11 | vi__ | ... |
| 21:24.13 | zeq | nice :) |
| 21:24.25 | vi__ | that is at night. |
| 21:24.43 | vi__ | during the day there are 2 angry squirrels. |
| 21:25.04 | vi__ | not only do they fight at each other... |
| 21:25.15 | vi__ | they activley plot one anothers demise. |
| 21:25.26 | zeq | We get foxes in our garden |
| 21:25.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | thatms love |
| 21:25.47 | zeq | plenty of squirrels too! |
| 21:25.51 | kerio | zeq: what's wrong with the current fennec, apart from the fact that's horrendously slow? |
| 21:26.04 | kerio | also, why does linux use a swap partition with lower priority than another one? |
| 21:26.06 | kerio | :s |
| 21:26.08 | kerio | *with a |
| 21:26.24 | vi__ | kerio: you think it is slow now? |
| 21:26.32 | zeq | current build (not in repo) has broken widget layout is is pretty much unusable |
| 21:26.49 | zeq | the version in the repo has a really bad memory leak |
| 21:26.51 | kerio | vi__: well, slower than microb |
| 21:27.22 | vi__ | kerio: that is an unfair comparison. Microb is loaded in the background ALL the time. |
| 21:27.32 | zeq | It's been at least as fast a microb, in the last few weeks, but there's always something else not working. |
| 21:27.40 | vi__ | where do you think your ram goes? |
| 21:27.52 | kerio | it feeds a family of ponies! |
| 21:27.58 | zeq | we also need to change the keyboard handling to support the hildon input menthod properly |
| 21:28.16 | zeq | and I still need to get the fullscreen toggle working |
| 21:28.18 | kerio | zeq: oh, that's why fn d doesn't give me the same as fn+d? |
| 21:28.29 | zeq | yes |
| 21:28.37 | vi__ | fullscreen? |
| 21:29.03 | zeq | so you can see the hildon status bar |
| 21:29.20 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 21:29.21 | zeq | toggle like in microb |
| 21:29.43 | kerio | by the way, having an actual fullscreen toggle is really weird |
| 21:29.56 | kerio | (as in, some way to run wmctrl -b toggle,fullscreen) |
| 21:30.05 | kerio | the toolbars get mixed up all the time |
| 21:30.20 | vi__ | kerio: well it is at best a hack. |
| 21:30.30 | kerio | why? |
| 21:30.35 | vi__ | hildon was not designed to be run in that way. |
| 21:30.46 | kerio | well hildon was designed in the wrong way, isn't it |
| 21:30.52 | kerio | *wasn't |
| 21:31.07 | vi__ | kerio: no, you were. |
| 21:31.21 | kerio | aisleriot handles it well |
| 21:31.24 | kerio | fuck yeah gnome |
| 21:32.03 | vi__ | ~tmo! is trolls, morons and ogres. |
| 21:32.03 | infobot | vi__: okay |
| 21:32.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio fucks gnomes? |
| 21:32.15 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: yes. |
| 21:32.23 | *** join/#maemo loganbr (~user@wifi-napanet-static-206-81-98-165.napanet.net) |
| 21:33.17 | vi__ | kerio: http://www.catonmat.net/blog/top-ten-one-liners-from-commandlinefu-explained/ |
| 21:34.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | should i bother? |
| 21:34.06 | zeq | even using all the normal libc6 build options, just with some gcc47 build fixes it still isn't working. I'm going to try a libc build with the 4.2 compiler |
| 21:34.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | zeq WTF? |
| 21:35.08 | zeq | I'm trying to work out exactly what cause the locales to go wrong |
| 21:35.13 | kerio | vi__: huh? |
| 21:35.31 | vi__ | kerio: it is some cool shit. |
| 21:35.48 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@81.174.24.227) |
| 21:35.48 | zeq | If I can get a build working, I can try one thing at a time |
| 21:35.50 | vi__ | but no forkbomb roullette. |
| 21:35.56 | kerio | hehe |
| 21:36.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | zeq: ls -laR / >before |
| 21:36.15 | vi__ | zeq: take you logical approach elsewhere please. |
| 21:36.39 | vi__ | gtg bb |
| 21:36.50 | *** join/#maemo sambo7 (~mIRC@user-164-126-36-1.play-internet.pl) |
| 21:37.22 | zeq | first thing I'm going to do is get a baseline working device |
| 21:37.28 | zeq | installing stock libc6 |
| 21:39.01 | *** join/#maemo beford (~beford@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 21:41.02 | zeq | ok. stock is working |
| 21:43.58 | kerio | hm, swap on uSD + compcache makes things a little bit slower |
| 21:44.02 | kerio | at least, it feels that way |
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| 22:07.25 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.200.103) |
| 22:07.58 | Estel_ | damn, PayPal is a bitch |
| 22:08.04 | Estel_ | how I hate this service |
| 22:08.39 | Estel_ | one guy who bought old computer form me *accidentaly* clicked to open claim (wanted to open claim about other purchase), and immediately, bot me and he informed paypal about mistake and requested closing case |
| 22:08.52 | Estel_ | I even, just to be on safe side, provided scans of delivery documents |
| 22:09.04 | Estel_ | and guess what, ScamPal decided today to close case... in favour of buyer! |
| 22:09.06 | Estel_ | =) |
| 22:09.19 | Estel_ | buyer immediately send me money back - it's good that he was honest one |
| 22:09.27 | kerio | what the fuck |
| 22:09.52 | Estel_ | but, the thing is, that PayPal got provision paid AGAIN, and also, converted my money from one currency to another, taking anothjer povision, to delete (-) net saldo |
| 22:09.55 | Estel_ | so, they' |
| 22:10.01 | Estel_ | have earned 4x provision, totally |
| 22:10.05 | Estel_ | just by being a bitch |
| 22:10.42 | kerio | Estel_: how do i fit two batteries in an otterbox? |
| 22:10.47 | Estel_ | their custom center try to tell me, that it's ok for them to have such rule in agreement with customers, and of course they refuse to give it back |
| 22:11.03 | Estel_ | kerio, no idea, ki don't use otterbox. Be creative |
| 22:11.19 | RiD | Estel_ in the end they want your money |
| 22:11.19 | kerio | it's not even here yet |
| 22:11.31 | Estel_ | I contacted goverment's custom right service, #@$#@$/ Beware of PayPAl, it's becoming even more arrogant scam service than ever |
| 22:11.59 | Estel_ | we will see how their #$@#$ scam rules apply to Polish law |
| 22:12.12 | Estel_ | as they're offering their services here, under polish domain, not in @#%$#5 luxemburg |
| 22:12.35 | Estel_ | and they can put their #@$#@$@# luxemburg contact mail, they want me to sent "complains", in their scamish ass |
| 22:13.09 | Estel_ | btw funny fact - if buyer wouldn't send me money back, they could ask him to do so, but wouldn't force his money back to my account, or start legal action |
| 22:13.23 | Estel_ | their "forcibly money transfer" is only in favor of buyer, never the other way |
| 22:13.38 | kerio | paypal is great if you're a dishonest buyer and you want to screw the seller over |
| 22:13.41 | Estel_ | i'm officially going to bounce off every paypal payment, that won't be amrked as transfer to friends/relatives |
| 22:13.45 | Estel_ | kerio, exactly |
| 22:14.11 | Estel_ | It's pity that aliexpress showed scampal middle finger, and deleted payments via paypal |
| 22:14.22 | kerio | i just don't get what's wrong with wire transfers |
| 22:14.27 | Estel_ | I would buy half if Cchiense country, then request refund |
| 22:14.31 | kerio | they're *definetely* traced |
| 22:14.43 | Estel_ | I would like to see how PayPal arguments their "rules" to chinesee special forces ;) |
| 22:14.58 | Estel_ | kerio, international wire transfers are expensive |
| 22:15.09 | Estel_ | for sxmall-to-mdoerate sums, they're too expensive |
| 22:15.16 | kerio | and 4x commission from paypal is cheap? |
| 22:15.28 | Estel_ | for huge sums, like money for black alu project, of course i convince every donoro/pre-order one to do so |
| 22:15.33 | Estel_ | kerio, haha |
| 22:15.39 | Estel_ | buyer don't care, as it's me who paid it :< |
| 22:16.06 | Estel_ | but honestly, and unfortunatelyt, for such sums, even 4x commision from paypal is less expensive than wire transfer from US :( |
| 22:16.19 | Estel_ | I really hope for bitmoney stabilizing on current value |
| 22:16.25 | Estel_ | it's stable for more than year now |
| 22:16.28 | Estel_ | bitcoins, I mean |
| 22:16.44 | Estel_ | after initial speculation and 30 USd value dropping to 4 USd, it seems that 4-5 USd is real value for bitcoin |
| 22:17.06 | Estel_ | I'll glady tell PayPal to go and sodomize itself |
| 22:17.06 | Estel_ | with a stun baton |
| 22:17.06 | Estel_ | electric one |
| 22:17.53 | kerio | Estel_: hmm, the otterbox looks awfully tight |
| 22:17.57 | Estel_ | ScapPal, eBayshit, and every sub-company of this scamming family |
| 22:18.16 | Estel_ | kerio, just buy otterbox big enough to handle mugen-cover sized N900 |
| 22:18.19 | Estel_ | job done |
| 22:18.28 | kerio | it's not custom made |
| 22:19.00 | kerio | by the way, how's the full aluminium cover going? |
| 22:19.12 | Estel_ | stable and slowly to the target :) |
| 22:19.20 | kerio | can you make one with three battery slots? |
| 22:19.26 | kerio | they should fit sideways, don't they |
| 22:19.34 | Estel_ | I'm starting vacation (2 weeks and little more) from day after tomorrow, though |
| 22:19.35 | kerio | hm, maybe not |
| 22:19.49 | Estel_ | kerio, no, 2x18650 slot is priority |
| 22:19.57 | Estel_ | and they don't fit sideways, unfortunately (bl-5j) |
| 22:19.57 | kerio | 18650? :o |
| 22:20.08 | Estel_ | yea, 2x 18650 for custom body replacement |
| 22:20.13 | kerio | wtf is a 18650 |
| 22:20.13 | Estel_ | for backcover only, no chances |
| 22:20.18 | Estel_ | google it ;) |
| 22:20.20 | kerio | is that mAhs? |
| 22:20.22 | Estel_ | nope |
| 22:20.24 | Estel_ | haha |
| 22:20.30 | kerio | :( |
| 22:20.38 | Estel_ | 18650 is standard cylyndrical most popualr in the world LiIon cell |
| 22:20.45 | Estel_ | best price |
| 22:20.47 | Estel_ | best availability |
| 22:20.49 | kerio | ew, cylindrical |
| 22:21.02 | Estel_ | will never disappear, it's used in notebooks batteries and flashlights |
| 22:21.20 | Estel_ | yea, but they have higher capacity density, even if You consider "wasted" space due to cylindrical |
| 22:21.23 | kerio | do they fit in the battery slot, in length? |
| 22:21.38 | Estel_ | phillips or panasonic (can't remember) made 3Ah one, lately, 3.8 mAh is also avaiulable |
| 22:21.42 | Estel_ | no, they don't |
| 22:21.47 | Estel_ | that's why You need custom slot |
| 22:21.55 | Estel_ | and that's why they will be available for custom body |
| 22:21.56 | kerio | yeah but it becomes insanely huge :( |
| 22:21.59 | Estel_ | as slot will be re-made :) |
| 22:22.03 | kerio | oh, i see |
| 22:22.04 | Estel_ | nope |
| 22:22.12 | Estel_ | I'll get rid of standard battery slot |
| 22:22.30 | Estel_ | that's why it's no chance for backcover only, as it would be extremely fat |
| 22:22.38 | Estel_ | 18650 have their dimensions in name |
| 22:22.42 | Estel_ | 1,8 - diameter |
| 22:22.47 | Estel_ | 65 - lenth |
| 22:22.53 | Estel_ | 0 - ammount of problems with buying them ;) |
| 22:22.58 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.143) |
| 22:23.10 | Estel_ | 18mm diameter, 65 mm length |
| 22:23.14 | kerio | how much space is there to reclaim, in the n900? |
| 22:23.21 | Estel_ | 2x is 6Ah easily, soon 6,8 Ah too |
| 22:23.28 | Estel_ | some, with creative planning |
| 22:23.36 | Estel_ | You can't cut off camera secondary board ;) |
| 22:23.38 | kerio | i both like and don't like the sound of that |
| 22:24.02 | Estel_ | well, 18650 are always first to have new awesome capacity, and are always cheaper to other types, comparing same capacity |
| 22:24.18 | Estel_ | no worries, 18650 variant of full body replacement will be optional |
| 22:24.21 | kerio | is there a way to fit two in the same space as a regular n900 with a regular back cover? |
| 22:24.30 | Estel_ | full body replacement with standard bl-5j is also going to be available |
| 22:24.41 | Estel_ | kerio, wtf? no, 18650 is only for mugen-cover sized one |
| 22:24.53 | kerio | i hope that a mugen-style xl backcover will also be available |
| 22:24.55 | Estel_ | for standard cover You get ONE battery, no matter what, and it's bl-5j |
| 22:24.56 | kerio | er, i meant one |
| 22:25.01 | Estel_ | of course |
| 22:25.17 | Estel_ | if You read thread, it's going to be available as aluminum mugen-style backcover for normal N900 body... |
| 22:25.25 | kerio | i see |
| 22:25.30 | Estel_ | flat backcover alu replacement with better kickstand (mugen too) for normal body |
| 22:25.33 | kerio | (with lens cover, i hope :) ) |
| 22:25.37 | Estel_ | and, full body replacement in 2 variants (for now) |
| 22:25.41 | Estel_ | including backcover |
| 22:25.45 | Estel_ | of course, with lens cover |
| 22:25.59 | Estel_ | but, backcover from ful lbody replacement *probably* won't be same as backcover for normal body |
| 22:26.03 | Estel_ | due to locking mechanism |
| 22:26.15 | kerio | hm |
| 22:26.18 | Estel_ | that is why full body is sold with backcover only, not separately |
| 22:26.21 | kerio | i see |
| 22:26.39 | Estel_ | I thjknk about two varianst of full body rep, one normal, with either flat or mugen-sized backcover... |
| 22:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | 18mm diameter? |
| 22:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | 650mm length? |
| 22:26.53 | Estel_ | and one extreme, for 18650, with mugen-sized backcover only (possibly, 2mm thicker) |
| 22:27.02 | Estel_ | (I mean, bigger in thickness) |
| 22:27.06 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, haha, noi |
| 22:27.08 | zeq | is being called to bed |
| 22:27.10 | Estel_ | 18 mm diameter |
| 22:27.12 | Estel_ | 65 lenght |
| 22:27.14 | zeq | night guys |
| 22:27.17 | Estel_ | 0 stands for whatever You want |
| 22:27.18 | Estel_ | 0 problems |
| 22:27.21 | Estel_ | night zeq! |
| 22:27.29 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 22:27.35 | kerio | so... old-style body with flat back-cover, old-style body with xl backcover and crazy 18650 body with OMGHUEG backcover? |
| 22:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1.8 dia sounded like in inch |
| 22:27.42 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, why You see sausages everywhere?:P |
| 22:27.46 | Estel_ | in styluses, in batteries... |
| 22:27.59 | Estel_ | kerio, kinda yes |
| 22:28.15 | Estel_ | + 2 types of backcovers only, sadly, not compatible with new bodies (but compatible wioth normal bodies) |
| 22:28.20 | Estel_ | sounds complicated, but it isn't ;) |
| 22:28.23 | kerio | Estel_: what about the screen part? |
| 22:28.29 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, it's 18 mm, for sure |
| 22:28.32 | Estel_ | kerio, not touched |
| 22:28.35 | kerio | hm |
| 22:28.40 | Estel_ | whole screen module remains as-is, it's metallic anyway |
| 22:28.45 | Estel_ | including sloiding mechanism |
| 22:28.49 | Estel_ | too much hassle, nothing to gain |
| 22:28.52 | kerio | i wanted a transparent aluminium front cover! :D |
| 22:29.01 | Estel_ | aka glass?;) |
| 22:29.16 | kerio | no, transparent aluminium |
| 22:29.17 | Estel_ | projects for future, after ending those - same, but from exotic wood ;p |
| 22:29.37 | Estel_ | de luxe, completely unprofitable for usage, glamour model ;P |
| 22:29.44 | Estel_ | still kinda cool, wooden body |
| 22:30.06 | Estel_ | I'm also thinking about N950 and N9 (with slot for keyboard and sliding) bodies, but this is for distant future |
| 22:30.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you know, .45 is some 11mm |
| 22:30.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | .38 is ~9mm |
| 22:30.32 | Estel_ | DocS, hm? |
| 22:30.40 | Estel_ | sure, but? |
| 22:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1.8 probably is a light ship gun |
| 22:30.47 | kerio | n900-shaped gun! |
| 22:30.50 | Estel_ | hehe |
| 22:30.56 | kerio | with *two* bullets |
| 22:31.12 | Estel_ | shot inject via i2c |
| 22:31.28 | kerio | Estel_: will the xl backcovers also have the external power port? |
| 22:31.42 | kerio | (what kind of port is it? miniusb?) |
| 22:31.55 | Estel_ | this one is kinda problematic. Probably, I will settle with compromise proposed, to leave slot for any kind of socket one may want to put there |
| 22:32.04 | Estel_ | You know, tiight aluminum in one slot place |
| 22:32.06 | Estel_ | thin* |
| 22:32.14 | Estel_ | as putting external port for everyone isn't best idea |
| 22:32.14 | kerio | i don't like thin aluminium :( |
| 22:32.17 | Estel_ | due to lack of fuse, etc |
| 22:32.45 | Estel_ | thin = you can easily punch it off if You want, and insert port there, for charging battery directly like dr_frost_dk, or for mod to soolder to n900 mainboard +5V, or... |
| 22:32.59 | Estel_ | anyway, I'm not going to have motherboard of people's devices |
| 22:33.08 | Estel_ | how I'm suppose to make external port for charging via testpads |
| 22:33.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd prefer a plastic patch with 2 gold pads and a magnetic iron behind it |
| 22:33.16 | Estel_ | everyone would need to solder it on own |
| 22:33.28 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I also though about springs solution |
| 22:33.39 | kerio | Estel_: external charging port! |
| 22:33.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, magnet >> springs |
| 22:33.45 | Estel_ | but it defeats space for dual-batteries or 18650's OTOH |
| 22:33.56 | kerio | well, can't your port also be used for charging? |
| 22:34.04 | Estel_ | what "my port"? |
| 22:34.15 | kerio | isn't it *your* guide on TMO? |
| 22:34.19 | Estel_ | no? |
| 22:34.24 | kerio | hm, maybe i'm mistaken |
| 22:34.34 | Estel_ | no one created 2nd usb port for N900 |
| 22:34.42 | Estel_ | alternate way connection is possible, but it's same port |
| 22:34.47 | Estel_ | - some safety mechanism |
| 22:34.50 | Estel_ | like fuse for 5V |
| 22:34.56 | kerio | no, i meant dr_frost_dk's direct battery connection |
| 22:34.59 | kerio | (it was him) |
| 22:35.09 | Estel_ | or external ESd protection for USB (only chips internal one remain - it's rated 8,8 kV, so it's Ok, but still) |
| 22:35.24 | Estel_ | direct battery connection allow to charge only using dedicated LiIon charger |
| 22:35.35 | Estel_ | no way to Put it under 5V without boom |
| 22:35.38 | Estel_ | it charge to cells directly |
| 22:35.51 | Estel_ | passing by even cells safety things |
| 22:35.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaaand you'll confuse hell outa bq27200 |
| 22:36.12 | Estel_ | BTw, people who want to use N900's testpads for charging, or direct battery charge, won't have problems to kick out thin aluminum in "fake" slot |
| 22:36.15 | Estel_ | and insert whatever they want there |
| 22:36.20 | kerio | he said he uses it to draw power and/or to charge it with an external charger |
| 22:36.21 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, exactly |
| 22:36.33 | Estel_ | kerio, external = one as big as smal netbook |
| 22:36.47 | Estel_ | or, alternatively, one small, but not very intelligent |
| 22:36.47 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: battery indicators are guesswork anyway |
| 22:36.53 | Estel_ | kerio, no, they're not |
| 22:36.57 | Estel_ | bme is guesswork |
| 22:37.10 | Estel_ | bq27200 is very accurate in measurements |
| 22:37.16 | kerio | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=981077&postcount=448 omg i never saw this one |
| 22:37.21 | kerio | can't it be reset somehow? |
| 22:37.29 | Estel_ | I did zillions of comparissions between external charger-measurement one, and bq27200, and th latter is excellent |
| 22:37.30 | kerio | if you know you're doing weird stuff with the battery |
| 22:37.48 | kerio | will it be confused even if you *discharge* your battery? |
| 22:37.55 | Estel_ | kerio, sure, sure, but all direct charge solutions confuse bq27200 |
| 22:38.05 | Estel_ | no, unless You power something else with it |
| 22:38.08 | Estel_ | but, when You charge battery |
| 22:38.12 | Estel_ | it won't know you've charged it |
| 22:38.16 | Estel_ | it will see increased voltage |
| 22:38.17 | kerio | i meant powering something else in addition to the phone |
| 22:38.22 | Estel_ | and wil lthink that Your battery have 32573645634753 capacity |
| 22:38.26 | kerio | haha |
| 22:38.33 | Estel_ | but it will refuse such data |
| 22:38.45 | Estel_ | so You will stay with de-calibrated capacity forever ;) |
| 22:39.02 | Estel_ | bq27200 doesn't accept too much of a change in % from one cycle to another |
| 22:39.08 | kerio | forever = until you remove the battery? |
| 22:39.20 | Estel_ | forever - until You calibrate it again and stop charging via direct-to-cell method |
| 22:39.33 | Estel_ | in my signature, there is a guide for calibrating it |
| 22:39.43 | Estel_ | and even for measuring capacity of battery using device only. |
| 22:40.03 | Estel_ | accurately measuring (no less than using external dedicated LiIon charger with measuring capabilities) |
| 22:40.48 | Estel_ | generally speaking, bq27200 is even better than them, cause it doesn't have problems with real-time changing current draw |
| 22:40.52 | Estel_ | it just keep track about it |
| 22:41.00 | Estel_ | external chargers just discharge battery at some constant rate |
| 22:41.06 | Estel_ | like 500 mA or whatever You set |
| 22:41.14 | Estel_ | and divide discharging time by this rate |
| 22:41.30 | Estel_ | actually, multiply it, not divide |
| 22:41.43 | Estel_ | this is why You get mA *h |
| 22:41.46 | Estel_ | = mAh |
| 22:42.31 | Estel_ | 500mA rate and 3h discharging until full = 500 mA * 3H = 1500 mAh, basic math/physic ;) |
| 22:43.12 | Estel_ | in fact it is 500 * mA *3*h, while multiplying, You can change order of elements freely, so You reduce numbers to one (1500) and put mA and h close to each other = mAh |
| 22:43.59 | Estel_ | bq27200 is more uber, as it calculate it constantly, based on momnentary currents too |
| 22:44.24 | Estel_ | so if it have 500 mA in half of second, and 50 for next 5 seconds, he know how to calculate it properly ;) |
| 22:46.00 | Estel_ | normally, this kijnd of chip is bundled with batteries - making them more expensive, and allowing sucker manufacturers to impose limits, like "stop to work after xxx cycles" |
| 22:46.46 | Estel_ | in our case, it is inside device, so no such tricks and we have read-only access to it - good side is that batteries are easidly moddable, bad side is that it get's confused if You hotswpa batteries, or generally, change them ;) |
| 22:46.55 | Estel_ | honestly, I think it's for +, after all |
| 22:47.09 | Estel_ | dealing with chips inside batteries is PITA |
| 22:47.19 | kerio | Estel_: the chip resets itself if you remove the battery and power it down, right? |
| 22:47.38 | Estel_ | no, unless You have internal battery (this one that keeps clock) fubar |
| 22:47.42 | Estel_ | like, mostly everyone now |
| 22:47.44 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 22:47.45 | kerio | oh, i see |
| 22:47.48 | kerio | hm |
| 22:47.53 | kerio | it actually works for me i think |
| 22:48.00 | Estel_ | try rmeoving battery for hour |
| 22:48.02 | Estel_ | ;0 |
| 22:48.13 | Estel_ | for me even few minutes/or even seconds is enough |
| 22:48.26 | Estel_ | in fact, this green thing from inside "battery" is also outside |
| 22:48.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: WUT? |
| 22:48.57 | Estel_ | quite easy to desolder and solder new, though |
| 22:49.07 | kerio | dafuq |
| 22:49.10 | kerio | green thing? |
| 22:49.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah bupbat |
| 22:49.16 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, looking at it closely (this small coin thing) it's not |
| 22:49.17 | Estel_ | yes |
| 22:49.33 | Estel_ | in fact, every device I've disassembled have little ring of green thing outside |
| 22:49.37 | kerio | ew |
| 22:49.39 | kerio | :s |
| 22:49.44 | Estel_ | what it is, strictly? capacitor battery? |
| 22:49.47 | kerio | is there a way to get a good one that will last? or are they all bad? |
| 22:49.53 | Estel_ | yes, there is, it's cheap |
| 22:49.56 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, have links |
| 22:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat |
| 22:50.04 | infobot | somebody said bupbat was http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months |
| 22:50.08 | Estel_ | shipping is more expensive than battery, though |
| 22:50.10 | kerio | k |
| 22:50.15 | kerio | hehe, it's always like that |
| 22:50.20 | Estel_ | best to buy 50 at once :D |
| 22:50.36 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, any sense in buying higher cap one? |
| 22:50.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 22:50.48 | Estel_ | what it is, from technical point of view? hybride of capacitor and battery? |
| 22:50.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense |
| 22:51.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | you dont need 12 monts of standby |
| 22:51.11 | Estel_ | shouldn't capacitor discharge itself pretty quickly anyway? |
| 22:51.21 | Estel_ | true |
| 22:51.24 | Estel_ | lifetime |
| 22:51.34 | Estel_ | maybe should use normal silver coin from timer?:P |
| 22:51.36 | kerio | haha |
| 22:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, an ideal capacitor holds charge infinitely |
| 22:51.49 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, but in real life we don't have ideal ones |
| 22:52.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but still they hold charge over months and years |
| 22:52.25 | Estel_ | sure, but I wonder what is different in this one, from normal electrolyte one |
| 22:52.27 | Estel_ | or ceramic one |
| 22:52.32 | Estel_ | that loses charge in seconds |
| 22:52.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got shocked from a old aplliance that been in the attic for years |
| 22:52.55 | Estel_ | yea, and shocked You in exchange |
| 22:52.58 | Estel_ | but it's rare case |
| 22:53.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | capacitor in filter still had charge |
| 22:53.22 | Estel_ | good one, for sure |
| 22:53.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceramic C hold charge for years |
| 22:53.57 | Estel_ | but, we can't jsut put electrolyte cyllinder there, instead of this 3.3 bupbat, that's why I'm asking what are the differencies |
| 22:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | use a goldcap |
| 22:54.14 | Estel_ | cause it's for sure something slightly different |
| 22:54.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1F 3.3V |
| 22:54.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | works, tested |
| 22:54.44 | Estel_ | :) thanks |
| 22:54.50 | Estel_ | normal one is 0.06f? |
| 22:55.01 | Estel_ | so this 1F 3.3V have standby time... 20 years? |
| 22:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | 0.1F is OK as well, still sufficient for days of standby |
| 22:55.45 | Estel_ | I'm asking, as it's more cheap for me to get other goldcap locally, than this special type of bupbat from abroad |
| 22:56.02 | Estel_ | heck, even ten of them is still less than shipping. |
| 22:56.35 | *** join/#maemo RiD (~RiD@bl22-39-186.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:58.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | use any huuuuuge capacitor that fits into case. 3V3 min |
| 22:58.46 | Estel_ | lol, first result on local wanna-be-ebay site - 2.2F 5,3V goldcap |
| 22:58.53 | Estel_ | still less expensive than bupbat |
| 22:59.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure but will it fit into case? |
| 22:59.48 | Estel_ | of course not, but surprisingly, 3F is even cheaper and is same form size as our bupbat |
| 23:00.01 | Estel_ | it msut be 3.3v, or can be higher voltage range? I think the latter |
| 23:00.08 | Estel_ | s/msut/must/ |
| 23:00.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | higher of course ok |
| 23:00.16 | Estel_ | i.e. it's "no less than 3.3", yep? |
| 23:00.22 | Estel_ | yea, as with capacitors, normally |
| 23:00.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3V3 min was what I wrote |
| 23:01.10 | Estel_ | ? |
| 23:01.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | minimum 3.3 Volt |
| 23:01.25 | Estel_ | 3.3v, I've said it too |
| 23:01.28 | Estel_ | yea |
| 23:01.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict minimum |
| 23:02.18 | Estel_ | http://allegro.pl/kondensator-gold-cap-3-f-5-5v-poziomy-8245-i2479426361.html 3F one, lol, 3USD |
| 23:02.21 | Estel_ | even less |
| 23:02.36 | RiD | alnegro? |
| 23:03.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: ????? |
| 23:03.11 | RiD | oh, it's allegro :S |
| 23:03.26 | RiD | blames the n900 screen |
| 23:03.31 | Estel_ | suuure |
| 23:03.36 | Estel_ | bhungry one thinks about bread |
| 23:03.42 | RiD | i swear that looked like alnegro |
| 23:04.11 | Estel_ | maybe this one, it's like another N900 in size: |
| 23:04.12 | Estel_ | http://allegro.pl/jantzen-audio-silver-gold-z-cap-0-22-uf-dunskie-i2511777804.html |
| 23:04.18 | Estel_ | 4,7f, 250V |
| 23:04.42 | Estel_ | at least You never need to type in time again |
| 23:04.58 | RiD | uwaga chwilowo lol |
| 23:05.17 | Estel_ | only 30 USD |
| 23:05.41 | Estel_ | rid, don't do that. It's gibberish ;) |
| 23:08.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah those HVHC critters are nice'n'funny. Usually from USP |
| 23:08.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | or power grid |
| 23:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | or electric trains |
| 23:09.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | MEH, that clearly ready "µF" |
| 23:10.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | reads* |
| 23:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jantzen Audio |
| 23:11.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | clearly a completely different domain |
| 23:13.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | offers some guarnateed 100% oxigen free copper with passivation coating power cord, Schuko plug to open wire, for DIY. Length 90cm. Only 699EUR |
| 23:13.45 | RiD | free, but only 700? |
| 23:13.57 | RiD | i'm in |
| 23:15.03 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 23:15.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: you're the newcomer troll practicant? |
| 23:15.30 | Estel_ | sure, he learns from old masters ;) |
| 23:15.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | or are you pupnik actually? |
| 23:15.46 | *** join/#maemo nagato (~stardivin@122.236.252.43) |
| 23:15.48 | RiD | I'm here to replace whoever got banned |
| 23:16.30 | Estel_ | http://monkeyiq.blogspot.com/2012/07/off-record-messaging-tutorial.html <- absolutely great article. I would *love* to see communicator on N900 using this |
| 23:16.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh, Portugal |
| 23:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | so prolly not pupnik |
| 23:16.58 | RiD | oh i see the ban list is actually quite clean, other than bots |
| 23:17.16 | RiD | and no, I'm not pupnik at all (i don't even know who is he/she) |
| 23:20.16 | *** join/#maemo Transformer (~Transform@d-65-175-244-147.cpe.metrocast.net) |
| 23:28.20 | Estel_ | no worries, DocScrutinizer remind him ocne for a while, so for sure this one have eternal place in DocScrutinizer's heart ;) |
| 23:28.27 | Estel_ | although, he always refuse to tell who he was :( |
| 23:28.41 | Estel_ | sounds like pumpkin to me, anyway |
| 23:29.35 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:29.41 | RiD | pumpkin? weren't you talking about pupnik |
| 23:30.16 | Estel_ | it still sounds like pumpkin |
| 23:30.52 | beford | what happened to pupnik |
| 23:32.45 | beford | ~seen pupnik |
| 23:32.53 | infobot | pupnik <PugVader@p54B29D69.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 304d 23h 42m 7s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'. |
| 23:33.18 | RiD | he died? |
| 23:33.27 | RiD | i mean, he left #maemo? |
| 23:33.50 | RiD | d'oh. ignore what my last 2 messages |
| 23:40.03 | *** join/#maemo Sazpaimon (wat@pool-68-238-249-133.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:40.20 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 23:42.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm both disappointed that the channel rarely exceeds 300 users lately, and happy that it stays stable at 271-274 |
| 23:43.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if you wanna know who's pupnik: there's chanlog in almost every relevant chan |
| 23:46.39 | RiD | lol |
| 23:48.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=pupnik |
| 23:49.01 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.207.163) |
| 23:53.43 | RiD | pupnikaand every meego conference visitor accepted TSA scaning their penis to see if they were circumcised |
| 23:53.49 | RiD | I see :/ |
| 23:59.05 | wmarone | heh, pupnik |
| 23:59.41 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@190.143.205.27) |
| 23:59.56 | *** join/#maemo jon_y (~enforcer@swz-175-163.tm.net.my) |
