| 00:02.03 | LaoLang_cool | robbiethe1st, it's one charactor movement, too slow... |
| 00:02.07 | LaoLang_cool | japh, ahh... |
| 00:03.04 | japh | laolang_cool, n900 or something else? |
| 00:03.34 | LaoLang_cool | japh, maemo of course :) |
| 00:04.07 | japh | urk bash3 then |
| 00:05.30 | LaoLang_cool | japh, thank you. doesn't want to install another shell though ;p |
| 00:05.37 | japh | what? |
| 00:06.00 | japh | you can not seriously want to use busyboxs ash |
| 00:06.11 | japh | I have already provided you with a working inputrc here |
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| 00:10.10 | LaoLang_cool | japh, I like busybox because it's simple and built-in :) |
| 00:10.23 | japh | :| |
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| 04:35.49 | Estel_ | japh, I understand him - while I know why bash > ash for msot people, for n900, ash suits my needs. everything, that can be done in bash, can be done in ash too, although using different methods, sometimes |
| 04:36.14 | Estel_ | it's conveinent to have same, enchanced (as in busybox-power) shell both in normal; usage, and in, lets say, recovery console, though |
| 04:36.30 | Estel_ | consistency between scripts, languages, etc |
| 04:36.58 | Estel_ | IMO, bash on n900 is rather about conveinence for not changing habits, than requiment to achieve something |
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| 06:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | busybox and simple??? :-O |
| 06:03.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | retarded is the term |
| 06:03.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 06:03.38 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 06:05.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: please do `ps aux` in messybox! then come back here again and tell me messybox is simple and sufficient and can do everything |
| 06:05.59 | Macer | well |
| 06:06.02 | Macer | imessage is lame |
| 06:06.05 | Macer | end of sms my ass |
| 06:06.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok ok, it's not exactly about messybox but about the missing unix tools, but that's what messybox is all about |
| 06:06.47 | kerio | sudo ping |
| 06:06.54 | kerio | just... fucking sudo ping |
| 06:07.06 | *** part/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.165.128.103) |
| 06:07.17 | kerio | IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SUID ROOT GODDAMMIT |
| 06:07.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | or tar |
| 06:07.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | you gonna "WTF?!? tar doesn't know gz???" |
| 06:07.50 | kerio | haha |
| 06:08.07 | kerio | my tar is gnu tar |
| 06:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | or a simple ls -l with sane format |
| 06:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | or basically anything * --help ; many thanks messybox! |
| 06:12.03 | kerio | can't we just put the proper ash there? |
| 06:12.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# busybox ls --help 2>&1|wc -l |
| 06:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4 |
| 06:12.08 | kerio | and real tools? |
| 06:12.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls --help 2>&1|wc -l |
| 06:12.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | 121 |
| 06:12.24 | kerio | or does stuff rely on busyboxisms? |
| 06:12.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | some stuff in user init (xinitrc or whatever) actually is said to rely on messyboxisms |
| 06:13.31 | kerio | messyboxisms or ashisms? |
| 06:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it's been a fatal idea to set *user's* default shell to bash+unix-utils |
| 06:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | messyboxisms |
| 06:13.43 | kerio | huh |
| 06:13.50 | kerio | i guess i'm just lucky then |
| 06:13.58 | kerio | my default shell is bash + unix-utils |
| 06:14.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is info from PR1.0.1 |
| 06:14.11 | kerio | oic |
| 06:14.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc if it still applies nowadays, Nokia might have fixed the scripts |
| 06:14.34 | kerio | ...wait, nokia actually fixed a bug regarding the unix side? :o |
| 06:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | the initscripts been constantly augmented for every PR |
| 06:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | with very first PR versions we had no hook for bootmenu |
| 06:15.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | for example |
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| 06:17.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for the life of mine I couldn't recall what exactly been the problem with busyboxisms in initscripts. Sth like the script relying on a particular very unusual output of some messybox builtin cmd like ls or mount or dunno what |
| 06:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | so kerio you could do mankind a favour and test if your device will actually come up with mesybox removed |
| 06:22.41 | kerio | hah, i'll pass |
| 06:23.32 | kerio | i like my n900 best when it actually boots |
| 06:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | resp check how many of the symlinks like "/bin/mount -> busybox" are still in place and needed to boot your device |
| 06:24.25 | kerio | hehe |
| 06:24.40 | kerio | well at best i would've tried just putting bash in /bin/sh |
| 06:25.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's no problem at all |
| 06:25.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | see my above pasts |
| 06:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# version |
| 06:25.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | bash: version: command not found |
| 06:26.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which bash |
| 06:26.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | /bin/bash |
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| 06:30.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ls -l $(echo $PATH|sed "s/:/ /g")|grep busybox |
| 06:31.25 | kerio | yes, i am aware of how much shit busybox does |
| 06:31.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I didn't use proper `find` command on purpose) |
| 06:31.36 | kerio | hahaha |
| 06:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | however many of those are neutered on my system, by /bin/gnu/* |
| 06:34.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# echo $PATH |
| 06:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 |
| 06:35.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which ls |
| 06:35.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/bin/gnu/ls |
| 06:41.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/gnu/|wc -l |
| 06:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | 119 |
| 06:42.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...and I just notice diff and siblings isn't optified :-S |
| 06:44.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmp diff diff3 md5sum.textutils rgrep sdiff updatedb |
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| 06:53.26 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do you have something in /usr/bin/X11? |
| 06:53.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | you bet I have |
| 06:54.05 | kerio | i don't even have the directory :c |
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| 06:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -la /usr/bin/X11 |
| 06:55.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1 2009-10-30 12:29 /usr/bin/X11 -> . |
| 06:55.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 06:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is THAT? |
| 06:56.06 | kerio | oh lol |
| 06:56.14 | kerio | that's cheating! |
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| 07:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# /usr/bin/X11/ |
| 07:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | Display all 759 possibilities? (y or n) |
| 07:01.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | (the <tab<<tab> didn't print ;-D) |
| 07:08.21 | jonwil | time to start on something I should have started a week ago, my project to document as much of the N900 dbus interfaces as possible |
| 07:09.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | time to start my daywork |
| 07:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...after headdesking a little about all the non-optified stuff in /usr/bin |
| 07:10.29 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@67.21.202.12) |
| 07:11.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | like 31648 2010-07-01 11:35 rtcom-messaging-ui.launch 1012968 2011-08-07 14:23 osso_pdfviewer.launch... |
| 07:12.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | 313328 2010-06-08 13:12 osso_rss_feed_reader.launch |
| 07:12.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | harly used in early boot, any of those |
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| 07:20.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | time to look into maemo-optify-* and how to use it |
| 07:20.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh maemo-optify-firstboot.sh maemo-optify-lib.sh maemo-optify-make-mountbind.sh |
| 07:21.59 | sambo7 | hi,just bricked my N900-did a nandtest /dev/mtd5 in terminal - now N900 is unresponsive -doesn't start, no charging via usb,etc - anything I can do? |
| 07:22.20 | jonwil | you might need to reflash |
| 07:22.30 | jonwil | which bit depends on just what /dev/mtd5 actually ponits to |
| 07:23.31 | sambo7 | device doesn't start-no led showing up, when connected to usb/power |
| 07:23.58 | freemangordon | coldflash ;) |
| 07:24.01 | vi__ | wow, you fucked it good. |
| 07:24.09 | vi__ | also, coldfalsh. |
| 07:24.10 | sambo7 | nothing happens,when I hit the power button |
| 07:24.21 | sambo7 | how to coldflash |
| 07:24.25 | sambo7 | ? |
| 07:24.50 | freemangordon | with the flasher |
| 07:25.08 | freemangordon | its tricky, but it works |
| 07:25.32 | sambo7 | fs was corrupted-my config was gone & I was looking for a way to restore my yappari.conf |
| 07:25.58 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@46.41.94.118) |
| 07:26.24 | freemangordon | flash it, use your favourite serch engine for howto coldflash n900 |
| 07:26.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd5: 0fb40000 00020000 "rootfs" |
| 07:27.02 | sambo7 | had some ext3 errors in dmesg...tripped over this command...actually I wanted to do some fsck & e2fsck,but unfortunately I did that shit:-( |
| 07:27.07 | freemangordon | hmm, coldflash not needed then |
| 07:27.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should be fine with normal reflash |
| 07:27.14 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 07:27.30 | freemangordon | sambo7: remove the battery |
| 07:27.39 | freemangordon | start the flasher |
| 07:27.54 | freemangordon | connect USB cable with keyboard open |
| 07:28.15 | freemangordon | insert the battery while holding "u" on keyboard |
| 07:28.32 | sambo7 | ok,will try that-was wondering if I completely f*** up my beloved device, bacause no response at all |
| 07:28.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha my /var/log/maemo-optify-boottime.log is epic |
| 07:28.49 | sambo7 | ok,will follow this procedure & see what happens |
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| 07:29.58 | jonwil | holy crap bluez has a lot of interesting dbus-related info |
| 07:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: you probably missed: -k, --keep Restore existing contents after test |
| 07:30.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | in nandtest ;-D |
| 07:30.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw nandtest actually has potential to fry your device for good |
| 07:31.13 | jonwil | how can it do that? |
| 07:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: you don't want me to explain that here |
| 07:31.38 | jonwil | yeah :) |
| 07:31.51 | jonwil | makes note not to use nandtest then |
| 07:31.55 | jonwil | to be on the safe side :) |
| 07:32.27 | jonwil | somehow I dont think I need to document org.bluez.* in my N900 dbus guide :P |
| 07:32.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:34.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 07:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# stress --help |
| 07:34.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | `stress' imposes certain types of compute stress on your system |
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| 07:39.01 | *** join/#maemo sambo7 (a47e34c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.126.52.194) |
| 07:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, sambo7 good luck! |
| 07:40.05 | sambo7 | my internet connection was disconnected...am on vacation-will try to reflash my N900 now |
| 07:40.15 | sambo7 | just hope I didn't fry it |
| 07:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: if flashing doesn't work, it's most likely a problem of your PC |
| 07:40.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: nah, your device is fine |
| 07:40.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | just needs new rootfs |
| 07:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: see: |
| 07:41.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 07:41.06 | infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 07:41.35 | sambo7 | let's hope so-thank you for your help...will bive feedback as soon as it's running again-hope so |
| 07:41.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | use a linux PC, don't forget to blacklist cdc_phonet! |
| 07:42.25 | sambo7 | have arch running parallel to win7 |
| 07:42.50 | sambo7 | will have a try...thx |
| 07:42.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | (cdc_phonet) seems it needs blacklisting on virtually any arbitrary distro nowadays |
| 07:43.33 | sambo7 | should show up when I do a lsmod,when N900 by os? |
| 07:43.48 | sambo7 | n900 recognised by os |
| 07:43.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, after first flashing failure it will show up in lsmod |
| 07:44.33 | sambo7 | ok...will start reflashing now & return with feedback later |
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| 07:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine! :-) you're welcome to also ask for guidance if anything doesn't work |
| 07:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | doublecheck you download the recent version of *COMBINED* |
| 07:45.56 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.186.208) |
| 07:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | tagged "lastest" |
| 07:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | latest even |
| 07:47.39 | sambo7 | going through the Updating The Firmware thread right now... |
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| 07:49.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | read the whole wikipage |
| 07:50.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a mess regarding structure, so you can't start at arbitrary headline and proceed step by step from there |
| 07:50.55 | sambo7 | I guess right now I have no possibility to recover my yappari.conf?didn't do a backup of that config file...ok,will read the whole wiki, before I mess up again |
| 07:51.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | .conf will probably live in your home, which will survive rootfs flashing |
| 07:51.43 | jonwil | yeah everything in /home/user will survive |
| 07:51.58 | jonwil | but everything else including /opt and /etc will be gone |
| 07:52.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll need to restore all your apps from a backup |
| 07:52.55 | sambo7 | before I started to mess up, my problem was that suddenly my device didn't boot correctly |
| 07:53.07 | ShadowJK | my car charger's cable is frayed :-( |
| 07:53.09 | kerio | nandtest is fun |
| 07:53.17 | kerio | i hosed my sheevaplug with that |
| 07:53.45 | sambo7 | hab to after finally it booted again,all my settings were like default factory |
| 07:54.34 | sambo7 | my phone book was gone,my sms/phone/yappari history was gone...so was my yappari.conf |
| 07:54.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: probably something messed up some hildon-desktop config files, and finally something 'recovered' |
| 07:55.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ummm |
| 07:55.13 | kerio | well yes, you randomly overwritten stuff in your ubifs volume that holds / |
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| 07:55.27 | sambo7 | the problem was/is that yappari registration isn't working anymore |
| 07:56.22 | kerio | anyway, thumbified busybox-power ftw |
| 07:56.35 | sambo7 | so without conf-file I will have to re-register,which will fail |
| 07:56.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm afraid your nandtest enterprise wasn't your fist nor your worst mess-up |
| 07:56.56 | sambo7 | but I can live with that as long as I can debrick my beloved N900 |
| 07:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can debrick it |
| 07:57.15 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-190.telpol.net.pl) |
| 07:57.28 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: he nandtested his rootfs |
| 07:57.38 | kerio | how can it not be the worst mess-up? |
| 07:57.40 | sambo7 | till today my worst mess-up;-) |
| 07:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you *might* have to reflash *VANILLA* as well, to recover your /home fs |
| 07:57.54 | kerio | ...well, i suppose he could've nandtested NOLO |
| 07:57.56 | kerio | or something |
| 07:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nope, he didn't |
| 07:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it's true that he did only test mtd5 |
| 07:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and aiui he's describing problems he had *before* he did that |
| 07:58.44 | kerio | no, i mean |
| 07:58.53 | kerio | to make an even worse fuck up |
| 07:58.58 | sambo7 | I nandtested mtd1-4...everything was fine, then started nandtest mtd5 and you know the result...mea culpa |
| 07:59.03 | kerio | hahahaha |
| 07:59.06 | kerio | he totally did |
| 07:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | OUCH!!!!!!!! |
| 07:59.15 | kerio | hahaahhahahahaha |
| 07:59.18 | kerio | awesome |
| 07:59.23 | kerio | ~coldflash |
| 07:59.23 | infobot | from memory, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing |
| 07:59.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | now you're thoroughly fsckd |
| 07:59.42 | kerio | nah, he just needs to coldflash |
| 07:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | he hosed CAL |
| 08:00.02 | kerio | ...oh |
| 08:00.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | worst thing you can do |
| 08:00.16 | kerio | why is it even writable? |
| 08:00.25 | jonwil | its writable because BME writes to it |
| 08:00.33 | kerio | fukken BME |
| 08:00.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | now THAT will be interesting to watch if that device comes back before holiday ends |
| 08:00.38 | kerio | >:( |
| 08:01.03 | kerio | sambo7: you're screwed |
| 08:01.08 | sambo7 | I'm also curious |
| 08:01.14 | sambo7 | sorry,what is CAL? |
| 08:01.25 | jonwil | CAL contains special per-device configurations |
| 08:01.32 | jonwil | including WiFi and Bluetooth MAC addresses |
| 08:01.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd1, the partition where all your basic hw config lives |
| 08:01.42 | kerio | and gsm imei? |
| 08:02.17 | kerio | ~cal |
| 08:02.17 | infobot | well, cal is a calendar. try $(cal 1752) |
| 08:02.27 | kerio | ...no, it's not |
| 08:02.30 | kerio | bad infobot |
| 08:02.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: you definitely need to coldflash |
| 08:03.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and with a lot of luck this will revive your device |
| 08:03.32 | jonwil | erasing CAL seems like one of the only pure-software ways to actually brick a N900 |
| 08:03.36 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: isn't CAL like... needed? |
| 08:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclear |
| 08:03.48 | kerio | for stuff? and stuff? |
| 08:03.52 | kerio | i seed |
| 08:03.54 | kerio | *see |
| 08:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | for obvious reasons nobody wanted to check it so far |
| 08:04.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 08:04.08 | kerio | sambo7: looks like you're going to be our lab rat! be proud! |
| 08:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually unless you also nandtested mtd0, you might still be fine with normal flashing, sambo7 |
| 08:04.48 | jonwil | first N900 owner to hose the CAL and find out if doing it bricks the device or not :) |
| 08:05.28 | vi__ | Has somone finally found a way to brick an n900? |
| 08:06.00 | kerio | hmm, what's "log" (mtd2)? |
| 08:06.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | nuking CAL always been known for a candidate |
| 08:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: kernel OOPS |
| 08:06.14 | vi__ | Also, what posessed you to do this? |
| 08:06.46 | kerio | why do we need 40000 of... something for those? |
| 08:06.58 | kerio | vi__: he wanted to test his nand! :D |
| 08:07.04 | vi__ | WTF for? |
| 08:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: because we love proper kernel dumps |
| 08:07.23 | kerio | hrmpf :c |
| 08:07.26 | kerio | k |
| 08:07.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: and he forgot to give -k, --keep Restore existing contents after test |
| 08:07.43 | kerio | vi__: nandtest makes a destructive test by default |
| 08:07.49 | vi__ | But where did he even find instructions on how to do this? |
| 08:08.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 08:08.08 | kerio | i did that on my sheevaplug at some point |
| 08:08.23 | vi__ | Surely alarm bells must have been ringing in his head... |
| 08:08.24 | kerio | it was fun, ubifs kept trucking along for a bit |
| 08:08.32 | vi__ | 'danger, sambo7 . DANGER'! |
| 08:08.46 | kerio | luckily the sheevaplug is Unbrickable© |
| 08:09.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | allegedly N900 too |
| 08:09.18 | sambo7 | I was a little overhasty...and didn't read the complete info on that command...since it's called nand"test"...I gave it a try without using my brain |
| 08:09.19 | kerio | the other *plugs are too, but they require a jtag board, the sheeva only needs a miniusb cable |
| 08:09.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we'll see if that's actually true or not ;-) |
| 08:09.55 | jonwil | ok, lets see who writes to the CAL via libcal |
| 08:10.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | coldflash potentially *could* restore a default CAL |
| 08:10.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, even a standard flash could, as long as NOLO in mtd0 is still alive |
| 08:10.52 | sambo7 | does the N900 have some pins/etc. for serial connection on the inside? |
| 08:10.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 08:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | under battery |
| 08:11.15 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is the irreplaceable data in CAL actually replaceable then? |
| 08:11.17 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 08:11.21 | kerio | sambo7: you don't need it |
| 08:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you usually don't need them even for hardcore recovery |
| 08:11.45 | *** join/#maemo TabletEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 08:11.46 | kerio | when coldflashing, you load a partial NOLO in ram and you flash the actual NOLO |
| 08:11.50 | kerio | and then you flash the rest |
| 08:12.15 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.139) |
| 08:12.30 | sambo7 | will start with cold flash soon |
| 08:13.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ram NOLO might not only flash nand NOLO but also restore CAL, if nand NOLO needs that for coming up |
| 08:13.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | or it doesn't and sambo7is screwed |
| 08:13.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | or NOLO doesn't need CAL at all, just friendly suggestions in there |
| 08:13.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody but some Nokians knows |
| 08:14.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | but since sambo7says his device is a complete brick, I assume NOLO needs a proper CAL to come up |
| 08:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: check your PC syslog after plugging in N900 |
| 08:15.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | might have some warning/fatal msgs from NOLO |
| 08:15.31 | freemangordon | sambo7: you also need to recall your HW revision |
| 08:15.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even no NOLO hello-world at all |
| 08:15.44 | freemangordon | coldflashing needs it |
| 08:15.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh yes, that too, freemangordon |
| 08:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | good point |
| 08:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | one of the things stored in CAL |
| 08:16.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | which makes me think coldflashing actually doesn't need CAL and probably restores it |
| 08:17.10 | *** join/#maemo conred (~conred@46.4.231.183) |
| 08:18.39 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~brzys@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 08:18.40 | jonwil | my god this grep of the N900 QT source code is gonna take forever :P |
| 08:21.13 | kerio | hm, how do i see my hw revision? |
| 08:26.06 | *** join/#maemo sambo7 (2e71eb02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.113.235.2) |
| 08:27.50 | conred | kerio: cat /proc/cpuinfo shows a Revision number |
| 08:28.36 | kerio | rev 3? |
| 08:28.43 | kerio | is that the hw revision? |
| 08:32.25 | Pali | cat /proc/component_version |
| 08:32.32 | Pali | here is HW rev |
| 08:33.17 | jonwil | Pali, get any further with the prolog stuff yet? |
| 08:33.34 | Pali | I did not played with it |
| 08:33.38 | jonwil | ok |
| 08:33.58 | jonwil | I take it nothing more from any of the various Nokia things you emailed about (e.g. BME temprature calculation) |
| 08:34.05 | Pali | jonwil, I wrote steps which maybe working for replacing jack bias predicate in that binary plc file |
| 08:34.11 | jonwil | ok |
| 08:34.39 | Pali | jonwil, n9 bme dev wrote me that he try to look/ask for n900 bme code |
| 08:34.49 | Pali | also he forwared my email to other nokia dev |
| 08:35.02 | jonwil | ok |
| 08:35.32 | jonwil | Hopefully someone can find (and get permission to share) the math formula(s) for reading data from those ADCs and converting it into whatever libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme want |
| 08:36.06 | jonwil | we dont need (or want) all of BME, just the math formulas (and maybe the stuff for reading BME CAL area if its needed) |
| 08:36.25 | freemangordon | Pali: what? bme source code? I won't believe it even if i see it :P |
| 08:36.48 | Pali | I asked for battery temp formula |
| 08:36.57 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 08:36.58 | jonwil | btw pali, will the BME replacement thats being worked on be usable to replace BME in MeeGo/Mer/Nemo/etc? |
| 08:37.06 | Pali | and dev wrote that he tried to look into bme source code for that |
| 08:37.16 | freemangordon | jonwil: should be |
| 08:37.22 | Pali | jonwil, it will be in kernel, so yes |
| 08:37.42 | freemangordon | it is partially based on mer's libbmeipc |
| 08:37.44 | Pali | if nokia did not created more stupid apps which depends on bme, then there will be no problem |
| 08:38.02 | jonwil | ok, thats good, that means one less binary blob needed for open-os-on-n900 |
| 08:38.07 | freemangordon | Pali: they depend on libbmeipc |
| 08:38.16 | freemangordon | not BME itself |
| 08:38.31 | Pali | jonwil, charging battery is in kernel, so userspace do not need to know anything about charging... |
| 08:38.44 | freemangordon | well... |
| 08:38.45 | jonwil | only things on meego that depend on bme would be the pulseaudio bits |
| 08:38.52 | jonwil | and someone said they are going to replace those :) |
| 08:39.08 | Pali | freemangordon, that bme stuff can be develed from meego/mer/... when kernel driver will be loaded |
| 08:39.27 | Pali | jonwil, pulseaudio bits are open in meego |
| 08:39.32 | jonwil | not all of em |
| 08:39.41 | Pali | and now it does not depends on bme |
| 08:39.57 | jonwil | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=pulseaudio-modules-nokia&project=CE%3AAdaptation%3AN9xx-common |
| 08:40.02 | jonwil | Thats definatly NOT open source |
| 08:40.05 | freemangordon | because it depends on libbmeipc, which is a different beast |
| 08:40.08 | jonwil | and definatly for N900 MeeGo |
| 08:40.14 | Pali | uff |
| 08:40.26 | jonwil | Those modules contan all the secret stuff |
| 08:40.36 | Pali | wtf?? this is not in maemo... |
| 08:41.02 | jonwil | Nokia rewrote Pulseaudio for MeeGo |
| 08:41.12 | jonwil | to put all the secret bits into much smaller modules |
| 08:41.16 | *** join/#maemo sambo7 (a47e34c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.126.52.194) |
| 08:41.19 | jonwil | so they could open a lot more of the PulseAudio stuff |
| 08:41.26 | jonwil | hence the creation of pulseaudio-modules-nokia |
| 08:41.44 | jonwil | pulseaudio-modules-meego contains the rest of what was in the Fremantle PA closed bits |
| 08:41.44 | Pali | other question, is that modules needed? |
| 08:41.50 | Pali | and what are doing? |
| 08:42.07 | jonwil | someone said they were working on bringing the latest pulseaudio to MeeGo/Mer/Nemo/etc |
| 08:42.23 | jonwil | and had knowledge of what to do about those modules |
| 08:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | XPROT |
| 08:42.48 | Pali | jonwil, ok |
| 08:42.58 | Pali | try to remeber that person |
| 08:43.06 | Pali | jonwil, for prolog stuff, see: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-07-25.log.html#t2012-07-25T12:37:35 |
| 08:43.14 | sambo7 | sorry for interrupting...was offline for a while...if I need hw rev. for coldflash,how do I find out when device is inaccessible?underneath the battery? |
| 08:43.15 | jonwil | it was in #mer or #nemomobile IIRC |
| 08:43.28 | Pali | if you still have swi prolog working, you can try to edit that binary plc file |
| 08:43.54 | jonwil | so you could scan the chanlogs for those 2 channels for the pulseaudio discussion |
| 08:44.08 | jonwil | and yes pulseaudio-modules-nokia does depend on libbmeipc |
| 08:44.32 | jonwil | for the bme battery temp reading (I think xprot needs it) |
| 08:44.41 | Pali | jonwil, that link is for N9/N950 |
| 08:44.43 | Pali | not for N900 |
| 08:44.44 | zeq1 | maybe we can RE the secret bits? |
| 08:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: alas afaik hw-version is nowhere printed |
| 08:44.52 | jonwil | no, thats for N9xx |
| 08:44.58 | jonwil | which is for all 3 devices |
| 08:45.03 | jonwil | there is a section for N900 |
| 08:45.05 | jonwil | one for N9/N950 |
| 08:45.08 | jonwil | and one for all 3 |
| 08:45.11 | jonwil | which has that in it |
| 08:45.16 | jonwil | and the PowerVR bits |
| 08:45.22 | jonwil | and some other stuff thats the same between both |
| 08:45.47 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@ip-89-102-184-66.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 08:45.50 | Pali | ok |
| 08:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: jonwil: freemangordon: could you help out sambo7 a bit? I'm afk now |
| 08:46.55 | zeq1 | if the pulseaudio modules are smaller on MeeGo it's more viable to work out what they do through disassembly, although I'm sure they have been stripped of symbols. |
| 08:46.58 | jonwil | yeah I will help where I can |
| 08:47.12 | jonwil | they are smaller but its still complex to reverse engineer |
| 08:47.22 | jonwil | audio algorithms are not exactly easy to follow :) |
| 08:47.29 | Pali | sambo7, I do not know how to get hw revision |
| 08:47.38 | Pali | when device is off |
| 08:47.42 | jonwil | nor do I |
| 08:47.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | try 2101 |
| 08:48.00 | sambo7 | how many hw rev are there? |
| 08:48.01 | Pali | but nolo/xloader is same for all 21xx 22xx 23xx and 24xx |
| 08:48.09 | sambo7 | could try one after another |
| 08:48.16 | jonwil | right now though I am going to finish my work on documenting all this dbus stuff, then later I might work on my replacements for libcal, sysinfo, bluetooth-cal script and wl1251-cal that could be used (once BME is gone) to replace all those binary blobs for MeeGo/Mer/Nemo |
| 08:48.19 | Pali | and other 2yxx have other xloader/nolo code |
| 08:48.36 | jonwil | well not replacing sysinfo, eliminating the need for it |
| 08:48.37 | Pali | sambo7, try 2101 |
| 08:48.53 | sambo7 | can screw up my N900 that it already is,I guess |
| 08:48.59 | sambo7 | cannot I mean |
| 08:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | there aren't many hw diffs afaik |
| 08:49.12 | Pali | specifing HW revision for coldflashing is needed only for flasher-3.5 to know which NOLO version will be sent from FIASCO image |
| 08:49.24 | Pali | and coldflashing does not erase CAL |
| 08:49.38 | jonwil | then that work could be changed by someone with kernel know-how to make the bluetooth and wlan bits work over standard interfaces |
| 08:49.40 | Pali | so after NOLO will start it send correct HW rev |
| 08:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless CAL is nuked ;-D |
| 08:50.04 | jonwil | and also used to replace those same bits in CSSU |
| 08:50.14 | jonwil | but dbus first |
| 08:50.19 | Pali | jonwil, nice :-) |
| 08:50.44 | jonwil | The plan basically is to take the open cal read code and turn it into a clone of all the read functions of libcal |
| 08:51.03 | jonwil | i.e. libcal without the write bits |
| 08:51.22 | jonwil | and to write something to do bluetooth CAL |
| 08:51.33 | jonwil | do it without using sysinfo |
| 08:51.37 | Pali | read only cal parser already exists |
| 08:51.38 | jonwil | and to clone wl1251-cal |
| 08:51.42 | Pali | see calvaria project |
| 08:51.44 | jonwil | yes I know |
| 08:51.58 | sambo7 | haven't used irc before...can I see a history of that chat later?or do I have to copy & paste?sorry for asking:-( |
| 08:52.00 | jonwil | that's what I mean, take it and rewrite it so its identical API to nokia libcal |
| 08:52.12 | jonwil | you can see the history later by reading the chanlog |
| 08:52.15 | jonwil | which is linked in the top |
| 08:52.17 | jonwil | topifd |
| 08:52.19 | jonwil | topic |
| 08:53.33 | sambo7 | ok,thank you...will have to continue debricking in the evening-don't have a data-flat here...will continue later with a flat |
| 08:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | |
| 08:54.15 | kerio | Pali: sambo7 nandtested everything :D |
| 08:54.34 | jonwil | making calvaria identical to nokia libcal will help when writing things that will run on Fremantle with Nokia libcal and also on MeeGo/Mer/Nemo with this new open libcal |
| 08:56.26 | sambo7 | great,will answer back in the evening...will have to detract myself now from messing up...hope a leap intio the lake will help |
| 08:56.31 | Pali | jonwil, also look at project libopencal |
| 08:56.51 | Pali | sambo7, ok |
| 08:56.54 | sambo7 | little irritating that nandtest is not only testing... |
| 08:57.12 | kerio | hehehe |
| 08:57.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that friggin nandtest doesn't spit out BIG FAT WARNING, it's a PoS |
| 08:57.32 | kerio | it doesn't, no |
| 08:57.44 | jonwil | got a link to libopencal? |
| 08:57.50 | sambo7 | I guess I will remember that mess for a centuries |
| 08:57.50 | kerio | the whole of mtdtools is really not user friendly |
| 08:58.13 | jacekowski | n900 is dead |
| 08:58.35 | kerio | jacekowski: don't be like that :( |
| 08:58.38 | kerio | be optimistic! |
| 08:58.39 | sambo7 | @Doc...I agree |
| 08:58.39 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: does dd spit out a big fat warning? |
| 08:59.00 | kerio | vi__: badblocks does, i think |
| 08:59.12 | kerio | at least there's one in the man page |
| 08:59.19 | vi__ | dd==gnu disk destroyer. |
| 08:59.20 | Pali | jonwil, https://github.com/slonopotamus/opendsme/blob/master/src/libopencal.c |
| 08:59.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: on dd thew name is the warning ;-) |
| 08:59.37 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@243.Red-217-125-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:59.37 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 09:00.21 | Pali | jonwil, but this is for diablo |
| 09:00.30 | jonwil | still a nice start |
| 09:00.33 | jonwil | oooh https://github.com/slonopotamus/opendsme/blob/master/src/open-wlan-cal.c |
| 09:00.45 | jonwil | That might also be a good starting point |
| 09:00.58 | jonwil | actually no |
| 09:01.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | slono long time no see |
| 09:01.20 | jonwil | Diablo device has totally different wlan chip IIRC |
| 09:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen slonopotamus |
| 09:01.29 | infobot | slonopotamus <~slonopota@176.57.72.72> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 59d 14h 17s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun'. |
| 09:01.43 | kerio | that's true, yeah |
| 09:01.56 | Pali | what did you killed?? |
| 09:02.03 | kerio | all fun!!! |
| 09:02.05 | vi__ | ALL THE FUN. |
| 09:02.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | |
| 09:02.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 09:02.38 | vi__ | ~DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:02.56 | vi__ | ~DocScrutinizer05 is killing all fun |
| 09:02.56 | infobot | vi__: okay |
| 09:03.02 | sambo7 | If I'm not able to recover, my N900 will end up as a souvenir on my wall & a kick in my a.. |
| 09:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq |
| 09:03.15 | sambo7 | not as bad a killing your N900 |
| 09:03.15 | jonwil | ok, I will use libopencal and calvaria and produce something that is (for reading at least) 100% identical to N900 libcal |
| 09:03.31 | vi__ | ~seen slonopotamus |
| 09:03.32 | infobot | slonopotamus <~slonopota@176.57.72.72> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 59d 14h 2m 20s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun'. |
| 09:03.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ DocScrutinizer05 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer |
| 09:03.33 | infobot | ...but docscrutinizer05 is already something else... |
| 09:03.35 | Pali | jonwil, ok |
| 09:03.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ no, DocScrutinizer05 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer |
| 09:03.44 | infobot | I think you lost me on that one, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:03.47 | jonwil | Wont try to get writing working as I dont want to be the one testing it |
| 09:03.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, DocScrutinizer05 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer |
| 09:03.55 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:04.00 | *** join/#maemo tanty (~agomez@193.144.61.240) |
| 09:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:04.03 | infobot | locking factoid docscrutinizer05, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:04.05 | jonwil | i.e. getting writing code wrong and hosing my N900 :P |
| 09:04.14 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: lame, you are killing fun |
| 09:04.22 | Pali | jonwil, writing can be tested in qemu |
| 09:04.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ DocScrutinizer06 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer |
| 09:04.41 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 09:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock DocScrutinizer06 |
| 09:04.47 | infobot | locking factoid docscrutinizer06, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:04.49 | jonwil | I dont have qemu going on my SB dev setup |
| 09:05.00 | Pali | jonwil, qemu from madde |
| 09:05.00 | jonwil | plus we dont need writing |
| 09:05.11 | jonwil | I dont have qemu going at all |
| 09:05.13 | vi__ | sambo7: If you have totally hosed your n900 you can still sell it. The N900 is so badass even broken ones will fetch at least $50. |
| 09:05.14 | Pali | yes, why is writing support needed? |
| 09:05.16 | jonwil | and dont want to mess around getting it going |
| 09:05.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:05.22 | infobot | [docscrutinizer] jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko |
| 09:05.23 | kerio | ~docscrutinizer05 |
| 09:05.23 | infobot | from memory, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko |
| 09:05.54 | kerio | but if he's joerg, why is he docscrutinizer? |
| 09:06.13 | vi__ | kerio: That is like his IRL name. |
| 09:06.44 | jonwil | On Fremantle (where things do need writing), we keep using Nokia libcal as-is (and nokia libcal-dev) and on Meego/Mer/Nemo, we can ship the open libcal so we dont have to ship as many binary blobs |
| 09:06.44 | kerio | so? not l33t enough? |
| 09:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~joerg |
| 09:06.49 | infobot | i guess joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer |
| 09:06.50 | kerio | it's a cool acronym |
| 09:07.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen joerg |
| 09:07.20 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i haven't seen 'joerg' |
| 09:07.34 | sambo7 | @vi_...wouldn't sell it...will keep-wiil serve me as a warning |
| 09:07.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | /ns info joerg |
| 09:07.35 | vi__ | ~seen assface lake |
| 09:07.36 | infobot | vi__: i haven't seen 'assface lake' |
| 09:07.50 | vi__ | ~seen a woman naked |
| 09:07.50 | infobot | i haven't seen 'a woman naked', vi__ |
| 09:08.01 | kerio | oh you |
| 09:08.32 | jonwil | my god qtmobility has some usefull info on some otherwise undocumented dbus things :) |
| 09:08.48 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF480B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 09:12.56 | sambo7 | is there a device running linux with better hw than the N900/N950? |
| 09:12.58 | sambo7 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:14.53 | StyXman_ | sambo7: besides the few android phones with keybs (technically, android is linux, and wiyh a lot of effort you can port anything), I don't think so |
| 09:16.16 | sambo7 | was thinking about all devices but android ones;-) |
| 09:16.44 | edheldil | hopefully they complete the Jolla , but given the state of patent wars, I wonder .... |
| 09:17.21 | zeq1 | freemangordon: As I mentioned yesterday, the reason Nokia used 2.6.0 as the minimum kernel version for glibc was because the old qemu versions available for SB do not support the syscalls available in 2.6.28. Therefore I'm porting the SB QEMU patches to the current Debian QEMU 1.0 and 1.1.x releases, and creating an updated cputransp devkit. |
| 09:21.34 | vi__ | zeq1: You are a mcahine, |
| 09:21.50 | vi__ | s/mcahine/machine/ |
| 09:22.34 | Pali | sambo7, did you alredy try to coldflash? |
| 09:23.30 | freemangordon | zeq1: ok |
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| 09:25.10 | jonwil | zeq1: will your work mean that we can bump up the kernel version in libc to 2.6.28 or whatever? |
| 09:25.18 | jonwil | i.e. libc for CSSU |
| 09:25.24 | zeq1 | that's the idea, yes |
| 09:25.45 | zeq1 | right now the SDK is holding it back |
| 09:26.07 | zeq1 | the kernel is actually more capable than the qemu in sb |
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| 09:26.53 | zeq1 | I'm having to effectively re-write the patches since the code has changed quite a lot, but I should have it working later today. |
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| 09:28.45 | jonwil | ok |
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| 09:31.16 | sambo7 | @PALI...no,not yet coldflashed...will have to wait until evening-don't have a flat here...am on vacation |
| 09:31.30 | Pali | ok |
| 09:31.46 | vi__ | ... |
| 09:31.55 | vi__ | You ran a nandtest while on vacation? |
| 09:33.08 | freemangordon | vi__: now, that's an obbsession :D |
| 09:33.14 | sambo7 | @jecokowski...where do you reside?I'm on vacation in Poland...maybe you could come around & help me out:-) |
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| 09:33.25 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 09:35.11 | freemangordon | zeq1: if you fix "$package/DEBIAN exists but is not a directory" I will owe you a beer |
| 09:36.21 | freemangordon | FUUUK |
| 09:36.30 | freemangordon | install: `debian/libnspr4/DEBIAN' exists but is not a directory |
| 09:36.32 | freemangordon | dh_makeshlibs: command returned error code 256 |
| 09:36.34 | freemangordon | make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1 |
| 09:36.44 | freemangordon | anyone? ^^^ |
| 09:37.27 | zeq1 | freemangordon: what's that from? |
| 09:37.38 | freemangordon | different packages |
| 09:37.48 | freemangordon | this one is from microb-engine |
| 09:38.22 | freemangordon | happens from time to time, packaging with "exists but..." error |
| 09:38.36 | freemangordon | s/packaging/packaging fails/ |
| 09:38.56 | freemangordon | something with debhelper, qemu, NFC |
| 09:39.05 | freemangordon | BUT IT DRIVES ME MAAAAD |
| 09:39.40 | zeq1 | maybe new qemu will help, although it doesn't sound like it's the problem here to me |
| 09:39.49 | zeq1 | debhelper could be |
| 09:40.17 | freemangordon | zeq1: i think it is qemu |
| 09:40.30 | zeq1 | we'll see if the new version fixes it |
| 09:40.50 | zeq1 | you could meanwhile try upgrading your debian-etch devkit? |
| 09:41.10 | freemangordon | how? |
| 09:41.26 | zeq1 | the devkits are all distributed as x86 binaries |
| 09:41.48 | zeq1 | from scratchbox.org |
| 09:42.29 | zeq1 | just download the latest version and unpack it into your /opt/scratchbox/devkits |
| 09:42.46 | zeq1 | after moving the old version out of the way |
| 09:42.55 | freemangordon | i think i have the latest |
| 09:43.03 | freemangordon | some time ago i checked that |
| 09:43.31 | zeq1 | I remember when we looked the other day you had 1 version older than the version I have |
| 09:43.40 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 09:44.10 | zeq1 | I'd better get back to hacking ;) |
| 09:52.11 | freemangordon | zeq1: upgraded to scratchbox-devkit-debian (1.0.12), lets see |
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| 10:55.14 | zeq1 | freemangordon: absolute crazyness. I was attempting to use the documented process for developing scratchbox devkits using the etch build environemnt, but I needed libglib-2.0-dev, so I run apt-get update; apt-get install libglib-2.0-dev, and proceded to break the enviroment when the updated libc6 from etch decided it couldn't complete installation as I am running on a *REAL* i386 CPU! Using FREMANTLE_X86 instead is going bet |
| 10:58.50 | zeq1 | so close... I can't make my final link because the cs2007 i486 toolchain isn't wanting to link the libc.a from fremantle-x86 into the final executable :( |
| 10:59.22 | zeq1 | looks like I'm going to have to build that x86 scratchbox toolchain |
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| 11:01.07 | zeq1 | a question for all: do I make a i686 -> i486 cross-compiler as is currently supplied with scratchbox, or do i just build a i686 host compiler? |
| 11:01.48 | zeq1 | what is the target arch of FREMANTLE_X86? |
| 11:05.16 | Hurrian | zeq1, if the target in the env is really i486, stick to making a cross compiler unless you want gcc to wrap as "gcc-4.x --march=i486" |
| 11:05.31 | Hurrian | libc is quirky like that |
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| 11:07.42 | zeq1 | Hurrian: is there a way I can find out? |
| 11:07.59 | zeq1 | readelf -A /lib/libc-2.5.so doesn't give me anything |
| 11:08.45 | Hurrian | it should be in the tuple |
| 11:08.57 | Hurrian | gcc doesn't store it's cross target info |
| 11:09.41 | zeq1 | uname -m returns i386 |
| 11:10.23 | zeq1 | tbh, I've been using AMD64 for so long I can't remember whether that would show i686 or not |
| 11:10.26 | zeq1 | :S |
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| 11:11.06 | zeq1 | Hurrian: do you have a real x86 system? |
| 11:11.20 | Hurrian | who doesn't? |
| 11:11.25 | chem|st | zeq1: i386 is 32bit |
| 11:11.37 | chem|st | isn't it? |
| 11:11.44 | zeq1 | chem|st: I know, but it's also different from i686 |
| 11:11.59 | Hurrian | zeq1, it's just some optimisation flags |
| 11:12.06 | Hurrian | Debian still builds with i386 target |
| 11:12.11 | zeq1 | instruction availablity |
| 11:12.12 | Hurrian | Arch builds with i686 target |
| 11:12.23 | Hurrian | if you're pulling stuff from Debian, it should work |
| 11:12.26 | chem|st | I have 64 and 32 installed on my netbook... one is i386 and the other is i686 I think |
| 11:12.32 | shadowx_ | root@infoTV:~# uname -m |
| 11:12.32 | shadowx_ | i686 |
| 11:12.42 | Hurrian | if you're building on an amd64 machine on the host, you may have a problem |
| 11:12.43 | zeq1 | I'm referring to fremantle/x86 |
| 11:12.45 | chem|st | 64bit? |
| 11:13.00 | chem|st | 32bit |
| 11:13.00 | zeq1 | Hurrian: that's okay, I have a 32bit chroot |
| 11:13.15 | zeq1 | chem|st: stock fremantle/x86 SDK |
| 11:13.24 | chem|st | should be 32bit iirc |
| 11:13.42 | zeq1 | yes, but i386, i486, or i686 :P |
| 11:13.50 | chem|st | ah ok |
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| 11:14.29 | zeq1 | normally, I would just go for i686, but scratchbox comes with a i486 cross-compiler :S |
| 11:14.55 | chem|st | zeq1: harmattan and fremantle are i486 |
| 11:15.05 | zeq1 | i486, ok |
| 11:15.22 | zeq1 | I'll build a cross-compiler then, rather than a i686 host-compiler |
| 11:15.57 | zeq1 | I wasn't sure what toolchain fremantle was built with |
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| 11:19.48 | zeq1 | chem|st: that's despite the pkg having i386 in the name? |
| 11:21.38 | chem|st | uname -m in scratchbox returns i486 |
| 11:22.00 | chem|st | and that is for sure not my hostsystem |
| 11:22.29 | zeq1 | ok :) |
| 11:23.40 | SpeedEvil | i386 is kinda generic |
| 11:23.56 | zeq1 | SpeedEvil: it's both generic and specific :P |
| 11:24.02 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 11:24.12 | SpeedEvil | I used a 386 yesterday. |
| 11:24.19 | SpeedEvil | Though it was a 386ex |
| 11:24.25 | SpeedEvil | In my garmin GPS12 |
| 11:24.39 | SpeedEvil | (I've idly wondered over the years about putting linux on it) |
| 11:24.41 | zeq1 | they've stopped making them recently haven't they? |
| 11:24.45 | SpeedEvil | But it never came to anything. |
| 11:24.56 | SpeedEvil | I assume you mean 386exs |
| 11:25.03 | zeq1 | yes |
| 11:25.19 | zeq1 | I guess I do :) |
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| 11:26.10 | jonwil | I am surprised anyone would be using x86 for anything other than a full desktop/laptop PC |
| 11:26.17 | jonwil | when there are so many better options |
| 11:26.34 | SpeedEvil | There weren't. |
| 11:26.48 | jonwil | how old is this hardware? |
| 11:26.58 | SpeedEvil | Back in 1993 (?) 386 was one of a very, very limited number of lowish power processors. |
| 11:27.04 | SpeedEvil | high performance. |
| 11:27.11 | jonwil | yeah good point, ARM didn't exist yet |
| 11:27.27 | jonwil | and things like zilog had no power |
| 11:27.40 | SpeedEvil | I think there may have been MIPS around, but my memory is fuzzy. |
| 11:27.43 | jonwil | 68000 was another choice used by such people IIRC |
| 11:28.05 | SpeedEvil | I think that would have been broadly comparable. |
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| 11:28.23 | SpeedEvil | IIRC it only had 2M RAM |
| 11:28.41 | zeq1 | ARM have been around londer than that |
| 11:28.46 | SpeedEvil | And digikey doesn't stock any parts with 386ex in the title |
| 11:28.50 | zeq1 | s/londer/longer/ |
| 11:29.05 | zeq1 | I was using an ARM in 1989 |
| 11:29.05 | SpeedEvil | As parts suitable for embedded hardware though? |
| 11:29.25 | SpeedEvil | The 386ex is a system on a chip - you need very few external components. |
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| 11:29.47 | zeq1 | they weren't high power compared to contemporary x86 hardware |
| 11:29.53 | jonwil | anyone know what ke-recv is? |
| 11:30.09 | SpeedEvil | zeq1: No, but if they needed an extra dozen chips... |
| 11:30.27 | zeq1 | SpeedEvil: depended what you wanted to do |
| 11:30.38 | SpeedEvil | indeed |
| 11:31.24 | zeq1 | I don't think they made out of Acorn until the Apple Newton? |
| 11:31.31 | zeq1 | or am I getting my history confused? |
| 11:31.40 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - back at that time the 386ex was a sane choice. It got 12h on 4 AA cells. |
| 11:32.22 | jonwil | these days of course you would be stupid to put x86 in anything embedded |
| 11:32.24 | zeq1 | yeah, and was well proven, with the hw bugs removed |
| 11:33.08 | zeq1 | even today there aren't a lot of choices for radiation/EMP hardened devices though |
| 11:33.22 | jonwil | if it wasnt for the need (and desire) to run Windows, there would be a lot less x86 powered netbooks and tablets out there |
| 11:33.37 | zeq1 | jonwil: you mean DOS :P |
| 11:34.03 | jonwil | I mean Windows (or rather Windows Netbook or whatever MS is calling it these days) |
| 11:34.33 | zeq1 | never heard of it :) |
| 11:36.22 | zeq1 | The momementum behind the desktop ubiquity of ix86 really came from 80x86 DOS compatiblity. |
| 11:36.32 | jonwil | yes it did |
| 11:37.23 | jonwil | but the reason x86 survives outside of core desktop and laptop markets is mostly because of Windows, if it wasnt for Windows, vendors would be picking ARM instead of x86 for netbooks and tablets. |
| 11:37.30 | zeq1 | if it wasn't for that Microsoft if they still exisited would have written their software to be portable |
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| 11:39.01 | Jaffa | zeq1: ARM was spun out of Acorn to be a JV with Apple and VLSI for the Newton, yes. |
| 11:39.31 | SpeedEvil | I have a nexus 7. |
| 11:39.32 | Jaffa | zeq1: First ARM was available in about 1985/86 as the "ARM Development Board", an ARM co-processor for the BBC's Tube interface. |
| 11:39.39 | SpeedEvil | It's amazingly fast, in many ways. |
| 11:39.46 | Jaffa | zeq1: First used in a proper machine in the Archimedes in 1987 |
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| 11:40.17 | SpeedEvil | Though - to drag it back on topic - I don't like the task switcher. |
| 11:40.18 | zeq1 | Jaffa: I had a number of Acorn machines over the years |
| 11:40.21 | Jaffa | SpeedEvil: I played on a colleague's - biggest problem, which'd be a showstopper for me was that fast typing in landscape mode meant I kept hitting 'Home' when I wanted 'space' |
| 11:40.42 | SpeedEvil | Jaffa: I find getting up to speed on the vkbd is painful. |
| 11:40.50 | Jaffa | zeq1: I've been playing with RISC OS 5 from http://riscosopen.org recently (since it's getting more focus with the Raspberry Pi) |
| 11:41.00 | SpeedEvil | Jaffa: At the very least, the thing should beep differently as you hit keys off centre. |
| 11:41.20 | SpeedEvil | Other than the lack of a hwkbd, it's very nearly my ideal casual browsing device. |
| 11:41.28 | freemangordon | in the meanwile: microb-engine is successfuly built with GCC 4.7.2 |
| 11:41.40 | SpeedEvil | 'swipe' would make it wonderful. |
| 11:41.42 | zeq1 | Jaffa: I always quite liked the RISC OS Desktop, but the underlying OS was always a bit of a cludge. |
| 11:41.53 | Jaffa | zeq1: But yes, you're right. Late 80s/early 90s, Acorn's machines running with ARM chips were faster than equivalently clocked x86 and used less power. |
| 11:41.55 | SpeedEvil | I'm still using my n900 a lot though. |
| 11:42.29 | SpeedEvil | Basically as I'm not so scared of dropping it at this point :) |
| 11:42.41 | Jaffa | zeq1: It's pleasantly simple for a hobbyist OS now. Even if it's still fairly easy to lockup |
| 11:42.44 | Jaffa | SpeedEvil: :) |
| 11:43.25 | zeq1 | I haven't used RISC OS since version 3.5+ |
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| 11:44.04 | zeq1 | I ended up putting Linux on my Acorn RPC :) |
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| 11:45.21 | zeq1 | on topic: what's the triplet for fremantle/x86? |
| 11:45.41 | zeq1 | i486-none-linux-gnu? |
| 11:45.51 | zeq1 | i486-pc-linux-gnu? |
| 11:45.53 | zeq1 | ??? |
| 11:46.12 | vi__ | in the meanwile: microb-engine is successfuly built with GCC 4.7.2 |
| 11:46.20 | vi__ | ^this gives me a mega boner. |
| 11:46.27 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 11:46.56 | vi__ | SpeedEvil: Get an otterbox. |
| 11:47.08 | vi__ | Put your tank phone in a tank box. |
| 11:47.11 | SpeedEvil | What's that? |
| 11:47.11 | freemangordon | yeah, and it works (at least on my developer device), HTTPS TLS error is gone |
| 11:47.15 | vi__ | MANSIZE phone. |
| 11:47.15 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 11:47.22 | zeq1 | freemangordon: :D |
| 11:47.24 | SpeedEvil | I have a silicone case. |
| 11:47.26 | freemangordon | ;) |
| 11:47.35 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I wonder if it's the same bug as affected fennec? |
| 11:47.35 | SpeedEvil | It's 2mm or so on each side |
| 11:47.51 | vi__ | SpeedEvil: Are you kdding me? The otterbox is the toughest of all the n900 cases. |
| 11:48.01 | zeq1 | freemangordon: do you know what the triplet is for fremantle/x86? |
| 11:48.11 | vi__ | Also, when you take the N900 out of it, the N900 looks so slim and sexy! |
| 11:48.26 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 11:48.33 | freemangordon | zeq1: I can bet on that (the bug) |
| 11:49.00 | vi__ | People always mock my N900 in a otterbox. |
| 11:49.00 | freemangordon | zeq1: why not login in FREMANTLE_X86 and check? |
| 11:49.14 | vi__ | They say, lol what is that? It is not the 80's anymore. |
| 11:49.21 | zeq1 | because that's too obvious DOH |
| 11:49.27 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 11:50.08 | vi__ | And I'm like 'hah, this is not a phone it is a computer. It is so good I can even you Cron to run a gsync script every hour over an encypted SSH tunnel' |
| 11:50.26 | zeq1 | i486-linux-gnu |
| 11:50.31 | vi__ | And they go but it doesn't have FROOT NINJA. |
| 11:50.40 | vi__ | forever alone. |
| 11:50.46 | freemangordon | zeq1: :D |
| 11:51.04 | zeq1 | freemangordon: it's not a problem building the devkit in fremantle/x86 do you think? |
| 11:51.26 | Jaffa | zeq1: RPCemu is quite nice, as it works with the "shared source" version available free: https://twitter.com/jaffa2/status/222788836005130240/photo/1/large |
| 11:52.11 | zeq1 | freemangordon: it's not exactly SB standard, but I can't see what else I can do being unable to update the SB etch environment. |
| 11:52.20 | vi__ | RiSC OS still exists? |
| 11:52.25 | zeq1 | vi__: yes |
| 11:52.43 | vi__ | mother of god. |
| 11:52.47 | vi__ | why won't it die? |
| 11:53.27 | zeq1 | as does Acorn, unbelievably, although no longer associated |
| 11:53.46 | kerio | what the hell, otterbox.com lists "Lumia N900" as a nokia model |
| 11:54.25 | zeq1 | now known as element14 |
| 11:54.56 | zeq1 | kerio: ????? |
| 11:55.00 | vi__ | In secondary school, our curriculum was so outdated we used to run an econet of acorn archimedes A400(?) to emulate a serial network of BBC micros to learn programming in COBOL. |
| 11:55.02 | kerio | exactly |
| 11:55.44 | zeq1 | vi__: cool |
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| 11:56.42 | vi__ | We were learning an obsolete language on networked obsolete hardware emulating a network h even more obsoleter hardware. |
| 11:56.48 | zeq1 | since element14 are behind R-pi it's quite fitting to get RISC OS on it I guess :) |
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| 11:56.55 | vi__ | s/h/of/ |
| 11:57.02 | vi__ | fuckit. |
| 11:57.17 | zeq1 | I don't think you did mean that ;) |
| 11:57.42 | kerio | hm, i wonder if there's an xl version of the otterbox |
| 11:57.57 | vi__ | kerio: They are quite small. |
| 11:58.20 | Jaffa | vi__: But, you were learning something. Unlike the recent ICT curriculum which taught Word, Excel & PowerPoint |
| 11:58.36 | vi__ | Jaffa: That makes me so F* mad. |
| 11:58.59 | kerio | vi__: yeah, i meant one for a mugen battery |
| 11:59.03 | vi__ | They are teaching UK kids useless stuff on outdated proprietory software. |
| 11:59.07 | kerio | or a double scud |
| 11:59.15 | Jaffa | vi__: I did some proper RISC OS hacking a few weeks ago, and it's surprising still how *fun* it is (compared with, say, fighting Qt Creator and random deployment problems to mobile devices) |
| 11:59.58 | vi__ | What damn use is an O level in using MS Word 2002? |
| 12:01.19 | vi__ | Jaffa: Aaaah, to compute in more innocent times. |
| 12:01.38 | Jaffa | Fortunately, despite Michael Gove being an irritating git generally, he stopped the ICT curriculum after Eric Schmidt's comments and the lobbying/press around RPi etc. |
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| 12:02.01 | Jaffa | Unfortunately, this has meant lots of teachers don't know how to do the new requirements when it restarts in September. |
| 12:02.25 | Jaffa | Hopefully, the production launch of the RPi will come with sufficient number of educational resources to make it relevant (and necessary) |
| 12:02.46 | kerio | what's so fun in the RPi? |
| 12:03.26 | Jaffa | kerio: In general? Cheap & GPIO & press attention |
| 12:03.43 | kerio | hm, the gpio could be neat |
| 12:03.50 | kerio | anything else can be done better by a sheevaplug |
| 12:04.05 | Jaffa | Depends what you want to do. |
| 12:04.42 | Jaffa | If you want to get a movement going, and re-energise people into hacking, you need momentum & press. The Pi has that, so it's therefore the best vanguard ATM |
| 12:05.09 | frals | the sheevaplug is quite a bit more expensive thou? |
| 12:05.37 | Jaffa | About $100 according to a quick Google |
| 12:05.38 | frals | at least mine was, and no display/audio out |
| 12:06.00 | frals | the only thing it has over the rpi i guess is ram size |
| 12:06.20 | Jaffa | Alison Randall gave a very cool talk at oscon on the hardware & software she used to do home automation and smart home stuff. |
| 12:06.22 | frals | cpu might be a tad better as well, but gpu in rpi should compensate |
| 12:07.28 | Jaffa | http://jeelabs.com/products/jeenode looks cool, as does http://www.tinkerforge.com/ and http://ninjablocks.com/ |
| 12:09.05 | kerio | the jeenode has an 8-bit cpu |
| 12:09.11 | frals | neat |
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| 12:10.22 | Jaffa | Yeah, she ended up writing her own TCP/IP stack for the 66 byte packets so it was easier to program. That's how she defines "easier" |
| 12:10.54 | frals | heh |
| 12:12.54 | Jaffa | http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/schedule/detail/24392 - more detail in the slides, but no video of the very cool session (even if the live demo didn't completely work 100%) |
| 12:13.23 | Jaffa | (Bah, got the double 'l's the wrong way round in her name) |
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| 13:14.14 | Raimu | vi__ But you can have FROOT NINJA on the n900 ._. |
| 13:16.32 | jacekowski | hmm, nokia n9 for 2000SAR |
| 13:16.38 | jacekowski | reasonable price? |
| 13:17.03 | Raimu | 533 bucks! :G |
| 13:17.38 | jacekowski | little bit more than that in reality |
| 13:17.44 | jacekowski | nobody ever gets google exchange rate |
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| 13:22.53 | Raimu | *cough* xe.com/ucc |
| 13:23.11 | Raimu | "Mid-market rates" |
| 13:23.20 | Raimu | I guess Google displays the same rates. |
| 13:24.12 | jacekowski | if you get some cash at that rate let me know |
| 13:24.25 | Raimu | ;P fat chance. |
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| 13:32.36 | kerio | hm, what's the "firefox" in ovi store? |
| 13:32.39 | kerio | is it an old version of fennec? |
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| 13:34.11 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 13:34.29 | Lava_Croft | just steer clear from fennec unless someone finally made it usable |
| 13:34.45 | Lava_Croft | its really bad to be spoiled by chrome on nexus7 :< |
| 13:34.53 | Lava_Croft | but good thing that Android is a pos |
| 13:36.01 | zeq1 | Lava_Croft: if you want to make a new port of Chrome to Fremanle, I'm sure nobody will complain. |
| 13:36.09 | Lava_Croft | zeq1: no shit |
| 13:36.12 | Lava_Croft | i wouldnt complain either! |
| 13:36.20 | Lava_Croft | well, i would, since chrome is odd |
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| 13:36.30 | Lava_Croft | there's already websites that state you need Chrome to view them |
| 13:36.35 | Lava_Croft | so its getting a bit MSIE6 now |
| 13:41.39 | zeq1 | Lava_Croft: I'm going to get back to fennec again once I've finished with the SB infrastructure bits |
| 13:42.01 | Lava_Croft | zeq1: i was being a bit harsh :< |
| 13:42.11 | Lava_Croft | i very much appreciate the work on fennec! |
| 13:42.23 | Pali | Maemo mirror.list for apt-mirror is complete: https://wiki.maemo.org/Apt-mirror |
| 13:42.27 | Lava_Croft | its basically the only close-to-normal browser for the n900 |
| 13:42.31 | Pali | Who has enought space for backup?? |
| 13:42.47 | Jaffa | Lava_Croft: Bit annoying that the tab bar and the navigation bar don't scroll out of the way on the Nexus 7 - especially in landscape |
| 13:42.54 | Lava_Croft | Jaffa: yes |
| 13:42.59 | Lava_Croft | and its camera is just wtf |
| 13:43.04 | Lava_Croft | might as well have not included it |
| 13:43.22 | Jaffa | Pali: Page doesn't say how much, or how much it changes per day |
| 13:43.25 | Lava_Croft | overall im not a fan of the Android OS anyway:< |
| 13:43.34 | Lava_Croft | but the price/quality on the Nexus7 is ridiculously good |
| 13:43.59 | Lava_Croft | i imported mine from the US, saved me 100euros in comparison to the 250euro price they put on it once it releases here in the Netherlands |
| 13:44.09 | Lava_Croft | 100euros is a bit steep for a europowerplug |
| 13:44.19 | Pali | Jaffa, I do not know how many GB space is needed... |
| 13:44.28 | Pali | I only created mirror.list files |
| 13:44.40 | Lava_Croft | Pali: is that 'everything'? |
| 13:44.50 | Pali | Lava_Croft, what I know |
| 13:45.00 | Lava_Croft | i cant back it up, but ill ask around |
| 13:45.03 | Lava_Croft | this is fairly important |
| 13:45.13 | Lava_Croft | maybe the guy hosting my irssi can back it up |
| 13:45.15 | Pali | I think there should be all for fremantle |
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| 13:46.13 | Jaffa | Lava_Croft: I might've bought one whilst in the US last week, but didn't find one in stock. Had a play with one back in the UK and the hardware's nice, the OS feels less cluttered on the big screen but the virtual keyboard buttons annoyed me whilst trying to type quickly in landscape (something that I can do well on the iPad) |
| 13:46.35 | Lava_Croft | yup |
| 13:46.45 | Lava_Croft | its basically my galaxy nexus, only bigger, faster and without 2g/3g radios |
| 13:46.53 | Lava_Croft | same goes for most apps from Google Play |
| 13:47.03 | Lava_Croft | its just treated as a big phone, sadly |
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| 13:47.35 | Lava_Croft | and the keyboard, well |
| 13:47.39 | Lava_Croft | never liked android keyb:X |
| 13:48.08 | Lava_Croft | its very uncomfortable to type in landscape, and my wife feels its not as accurate either |
| 13:48.11 | Lava_Croft | she uses mostly just portrait mode |
| 13:48.17 | kerio | damn, the nexus 7 looks yummy |
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| 13:48.20 | Lava_Croft | (not as accurate as her iphone4) |
| 13:48.43 | Lava_Croft | i must say that Minecraft PE is pretty neat on it tho |
| 13:48.49 | Jaffa | :) |
| 13:49.03 | Lava_Croft | but damn 250euro price |
| 13:49.12 | Lava_Croft | 150euros would be great, but 250 is just too much |
| 13:49.18 | Lava_Croft | damn euro prices |
| 13:49.53 | Lava_Croft | 250e comes too close to a previous-gen ipad |
| 13:49.55 | Lava_Croft | or a used ipad |
| 13:52.42 | Jaffa | Will be interesting to see if Apple do come out with an iPad "Mini" at a similar price point |
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| 13:52.57 | Lava_Croft | They probably will |
| 13:53.07 | Lava_Croft | What I am more interested in is their logic behind making one:) |
| 13:53.18 | Lava_Croft | Since Emperor Jobs already declared them dead on arrivale |
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| 13:59.14 | Jaffa | Lava_Croft: The screen size comparison is quite convincing. 7.85" 4:3 vs. 7" 16:9 will be a big difference (especially in landscape typing) |
| 13:59.45 | Jaffa | The only question is then if 7.85" 4:3 is too big. It won't fit in jacket pockets, for example, unlike the 7" 16:9 form-factor and Kindle |
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| 14:04.03 | kerio | ~pali |
| 14:04.03 | infobot | from memory, pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
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| 14:26.06 | kerio | is there a way to *set* the data counters? |
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| 14:32.39 | merlin1991 | just in case anyone wonders, maemo + harm ssu and sdk repost are 32gb in total |
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| 14:36.03 | kerio | merlin1991: fits perfectly in the n900! :D |
| 14:36.28 | kerio | did anyone try to boost the bluetooth antenna in some whay? |
| 14:36.30 | kerio | *way |
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| 14:52.10 | RST38h | Anyone knows when ARM9 has been introduced? |
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| 15:33.56 | ShadowJK | kerio; same antenna as wifi |
| 15:34.03 | kerio | ok then |
| 15:34.09 | kerio | did someone try to boost the wifi antenna in some way? |
| 15:34.29 | kerio | my bt headphones kinda suck if my phone is in my pants' pockets |
| 15:34.46 | kerio | they work fine if the phone is in a jacket's pocket |
| 15:36.43 | ShadowJK | mine seems to only jitter if wifi on n900 is used simultaneously |
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| 16:55.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what became of our nandtester? |
| 16:58.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I had that effect with Samsung Omnia. turned out it was the "turn face down to mute2 function that sucked bigtime when phone got shaken by walking |
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| 17:16.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: nah, it's the actual range here |
| 17:16.31 | kerio | in the back pocket the effect is much less disruptive |
| 17:16.45 | kerio | i suppose it's just crappy range on both parts |
| 17:16.51 | kerio | plus my body in the middle |
| 17:17.01 | kerio | but hey, fat shouldn't block radio :s |
| 17:21.01 | jonwil | Just about to make a wiki entry with all this dbus information I have been collecting |
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| 17:32.33 | Raimu | DocScrutinizer05: Nandtester? vi__'s brainchild you mean? |
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| 18:03.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | I meant satru7 |
| 18:06.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | sambo7 |
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| 18:08.14 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: how did you do that? :O |
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| 18:19.30 | jonwil | ok, I got all the dbus information that I can get at this point, will post it all to the wiki tommorow |
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| 18:20.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: do what? |
| 18:20.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | vquery matokla |
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| 18:31.12 | sambo7 | unfortunately wasn't able to proceed on my nandtest issue...my cousin's internet is down,so wasn't able to download the images |
| 18:31.22 | sambo7 | but at least some progress with the device...when connected to usb,the led is constantly on yellow/orange...maybe I can continue tomorrow evening |
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| 19:35.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | sambo7: nope, as constant amber means your battery is too depelted to flash |
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| 19:44.40 | Estel_ | Wow, 831 lines of productive discussions about porting, replacing closed bits, etc |
| 19:44.43 | Estel_ | It was pleasure to read |
| 19:45.13 | Estel_ | it's exactly the kind of things i *love* to see on IRC, when logged in. Funny, as actually, it seems that much more work is going under the hood, than in harmattan world |
| 19:46.02 | Estel_ | ...with great part of it being done from people that received CA awards, and despite fact, that 50 other devices were given to boost up harmattan development (as addition to 300 before) |
| 19:46.09 | Estel_ | well, Maemo is truly unique, no matter what |
| 19:46.24 | Estel_ | (Maemo as in "maemo and friends" i.e. including Mer) |
| 19:47.07 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, have You checked Pali's hostmode implementation? I know that kernel side is based on hostmode, but do You know, maybe, what was improved/fixed, or what can be potentialy worse than in hen? |
| 19:47.33 | Estel_ | Pali's work looks very neat, I just wonder if there was something fixed, above what is in HEN |
| 19:47.49 | Estel_ | or it's rather properly implementing it in kernel and user-space, but without any changes to merit of operation |
| 19:47.54 | Estel_ | (except for auto-guessing of speed) |
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| 19:50.15 | sambo7 | @Doc at least better than no reaction whatsoever when connecting to usb/power |
| 19:53.24 | Estel_ | sambo7, how cold flashing went? |
| 19:53.34 | Estel_ | practically, you have two Hw revisions in circulation |
| 19:53.47 | Estel_ | 2101 and 2204 |
| 19:53.53 | Estel_ | the first one is most popular |
| 19:54.02 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 19:54.02 | sambo7 | couldn't do it today...my cousins internet was down,so was unable to download images |
| 19:54.04 | Estel_ | so you should try those two only, other 2 are practically non-existant |
| 19:54.11 | Estel_ | ouh |
| 19:54.17 | Estel_ | I though You have them already |
| 19:54.46 | sambo7 | no,wanted to download them,but don't have a flat here(on vacation) |
| 19:55.06 | sambo7 | so wanted to do it at my cousins house... |
| 19:55.20 | sambo7 | hope to proceed tomorrow |
| 19:55.31 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, as for busybox and unix tools, I agree with the unix tools aprts, of course, but... |
| 19:55.51 | Estel_ | it's kinda "You fault" - as ps aux works well in busybox-power, which is exactly full fledged mainstream busybox (ash) with unix tools :) |
| 19:56.26 | sambo7 | but rather in the evening hours...was damn hot today,tomorrow the same...so I'll spend the day on the lake |
| 19:56.32 | Estel_ | ...available on both normal working time, and all kind of recovery consoles. bash for working day is good, probably, when someone is used to it, but I feel sorry for anyone wanting to use it at boot time |
| 19:56.44 | Estel_ | sambo7, 31 C degrees here |
| 19:57.02 | Estel_ | no need to go to egypth |
| 19:57.24 | sambo7 | the same here...Masuria,poland |
| 19:57.37 | sambo7 | though I actually live in Germany |
| 19:58.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~weather eddn |
| 19:58.16 | Estel_ | well, Poznan, Poland ;) |
| 19:58.26 | Estel_ | I supposed You must be from Poland, when talking about high temperatures |
| 19:58.46 | Estel_ | don't know why, because other places are hot too |
| 19:58.54 | sambo7 | :-) |
| 19:59.09 | sambo7 | was born in Poland,moved to Germany as a kid |
| 19:59.39 | Estel_ | enjoying vacations, eh? what made you to try nandtest when outside home wih recovery tools? |
| 19:59.44 | Estel_ | with* |
| 19:59.59 | *** join/#maemo Ariadeno (~Ariadeno@5571f108.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 20:00.01 | Estel_ | aanyway, enjoy Your time here, masuria is great :) |
| 20:00.06 | sambo7 | went past Poznan when going na Mazury |
| 20:00.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, we had >35°C today |
| 20:00.54 | sambo7 | my device was suddenly factory default'ed |
| 20:01.06 | sambo7 | didn't change anything |
| 20:01.27 | Estel_ | sambo7, before test? |
| 20:01.31 | Estel_ | just out of nothing? |
| 20:01.37 | sambo7 | was looking for a way to restore may yappari.conf |
| 20:01.40 | sambo7 | before test |
| 20:01.56 | sambo7 | because registration doesn't work anymore |
| 20:02.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~piglatin nand test |
| 20:02.13 | sambo7 | but managed to register before reg process was changed |
| 20:02.23 | Estel_ | whatever yappari is, name suggest some closed, commercial, privacy abusing communicator |
| 20:02.34 | Estel_ | or social something |
| 20:02.44 | sambo7 | so with the old conf I could have continued to run yappari |
| 20:02.57 | sambo7 | a whatsapp clobne |
| 20:03.00 | sambo7 | clone |
| 20:03.07 | Estel_ | it was just wild guess, have I hit the 100 points?;p |
| 20:03.11 | Estel_ | haha |
| 20:03.31 | Estel_ | well, it's probably problematic for You, and everyone si free to use whatever wants... |
| 20:03.41 | Estel_ | But have you never considered using some FOSS alternative? |
| 20:03.55 | sambo7 | it's developed by a guy from South America...look for it in the maemo-forum |
| 20:04.00 | Estel_ | the one you mentioned (main, not yappari) is kinda last thing that I woudl trust |
| 20:04.02 | sambo7 | you get a 1000 |
| 20:04.05 | Estel_ | well, maybe facebook is lower on list |
| 20:04.30 | Estel_ | yes, I know why name sound familliar - it spammed "latest activity" on TMO for some time |
| 20:04.45 | sambo7 | don't like/use facebook either |
| 20:04.52 | Estel_ | why not jabber (or it's current name, that I can't remember), or any else proper tool? |
| 20:04.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rot13 andnay esttay |
| 20:04.55 | infobot | naqanl rfggnl |
| 20:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~piglatin naqanl rfggnl |
| 20:05.18 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, learning troll's language to see through their plans? |
| 20:05.22 | sambo7 | ??? |
| 20:05.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's what you did to your NJ900 |
| 20:05.57 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, don't be so pesimistic, inf act it's interesting, how easily CAL can be restored |
| 20:06.03 | Estel_ | I bet on cold flash solving it all |
| 20:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ATM he can't restore even his battery |
| 20:06.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's in emergency flat |
| 20:06.27 | Estel_ | btw kick in nandtest ass for not providing any warnings |
| 20:06.54 | Estel_ | battery can be charged externally, the thing is about if cold flash could pass without cal and restore it, which I hope for |
| 20:07.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'll see |
| 20:07.46 | sambo7 | am very exited if it'll work out...will see tomorrow,I hope |
| 20:08.09 | Estel_ | Well, I've just went through 831 lines of productive discussion in #maemo, then wanted to check #harmattan and saw who is writing hat there... Well, it looks kinda miserable, compared to #maemo. I udnerstand now, why many people that got N950 are absent there |
| 20:08.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, if and only if you manage to carge your battery until tomorrow |
| 20:08.35 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, any external charge/other phone using bl-5J should do it quickly |
| 20:08.42 | Estel_ | 30 minutes for having usable power level |
| 20:08.47 | sambo7 | don't have external charger here |
| 20:08.49 | Estel_ | 1 hour to be sure ;) |
| 20:08.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: preaching to the choir? |
| 20:09.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: see? ^^^ |
| 20:09.21 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, rather diplomatically saying that #harmattan got flooded by rats shit content |
| 20:09.25 | Estel_ | see what? |
| 20:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | <sambo7> don't have external charger here |
| 20:09.39 | Estel_ | yea |
| 20:09.58 | Estel_ | 5V power supply and bunch of resistors should make it to 30% of state of charge :P |
| 20:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: don't even think about flashing until you charged your battery |
| 20:10.09 | sambo7 | will be right back...am speaking to my girl;-) |
| 20:11.02 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, playing mcgyver, he could always find some old, uneeded peice of electronic, like old analog phone or whatever, and use aprts to drop voltage from 5V Ps to less than 4.2 |
| 20:11.06 | Estel_ | yea, kinda extreme |
| 20:11.10 | Estel_ | I'm just theoretizing |
| 20:11.37 | Estel_ | but should be quite easy, and even fun and entertaining experience ;) |
| 20:11.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | like fixing IR-LED? ;-P |
| 20:12.00 | Estel_ | as soon as LiIon's won't start exploding, of course |
| 20:12.08 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, yea, but that one was more extreme |
| 20:12.14 | Estel_ | but, after all, it's working, including Ir led! |
| 20:12.34 | Estel_ | I'm stubbornm son of a... so i couldn't left it like that, and opened it again, to solder the same led back again |
| 20:12.56 | Estel_ | fun fact - judging by visible light when looking via digital camera, it looks like making more clear beam, now |
| 20:13.01 | Estel_ | :P |
| 20:13.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I outright refuse to tell guys who mess with nandtest how to rape their LiIon |
| 20:13.18 | Estel_ | (comparing to spare N900 with untouched IR) |
| 20:13.31 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, free knowledge for all :) |
| 20:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I'm not the bastard from hell some think I am |
| 20:13.39 | Estel_ | explosives in basement for all |
| 20:14.08 | Estel_ | bubut seriously, I'm sure sambo7 won't try that, but if he would want to, he for sure will read *this* message that LiIon like to explode when threaten badly |
| 20:14.14 | Estel_ | or, at least, "vent with flame" |
| 20:14.59 | Estel_ | i.e. never ever charge it with anything higher than 4.2 V output, and never ever try to charge it to the end via homemade 5V to <4.2 V reduction, as it's still lackign saturation |
| 20:15.19 | Estel_ | so could be used to charge for 50-70% max, and personally, I would never charge it more than 50% |
| 20:15.23 | Estel_ | this way |
| 20:15.28 | Estel_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:17.09 | Estel_ | well, wanna go extreme? at last resort, everything needed to charge battery is rice, bunch of small containers, soil (as in earth) and cable or any other well-conductive material |
| 20:18.11 | Estel_ | mix rice with soil and water, heat it a little, and clsoe in small container. After 2 days it will start to produce ~15 mA @ 0.5V. Some creative paralle and linear connections, and You can charge Your battery via "green" energy..,.:P |
| 20:18.47 | sambo7 | takes a little longer...women use a lot more words a day than men;-) |
| 20:18.48 | Estel_ | ok, enuf of joking, time for work (despite it being entirely true, power is produced via bacteria) |
| 20:19.20 | Estel_ | (pros - it can work for as long as year, without re-filling) |
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| 20:24.36 | sambo7 | won't be making up another mess after "nandtesting" my device...electronics is "a book with 7 seals"...->don't know anything about it |
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| 20:29.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sambo7: go to next shop, buy either a charger or a BL-5J which you tell the dude to charge for you before you buy it |
| 20:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | 'used' BL-5J are like 10EUR in EURope |
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| 20:32.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you even might get a used compatible Nokia featurephone for 10..20EUR |
| 20:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl a BL-5J |
| 20:32.55 | sambo7 | don't know if I will get it here...I guess I'll spend my day tomorrow rather with enjoying the sun/lake at approx. 30-35° than searching for a charger |
| 20:33.48 | sambo7 | but in the early morning I could make a trip to town & city if I can find something |
| 20:55.14 | RiD | What is this London 2012 thing everyone is talking about? |
| 20:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorta musical nobody knows what's the plot of it |
| 21:01.37 | sambo7 | @Doc...cool pic on google+ |
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| 21:15.14 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, could You remind me name of charging chip inside N900? |
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| 21:17.15 | ShadowJK | bq24150 |
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| 21:17.43 | Estel_ | thanks a lot |
| 21:17.56 | Estel_ | I though about asking You, but wouldn't dare to ping You out of blue sky |
| 21:18.07 | Estel_ | google was answering with bq2415x family ;) |
| 21:20.37 | ShadowJK | just finished rewiring and rebooting after an ups failure |
| 21:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | UPS significantly *increases* the likelihood of complete failure due to power outage, in my book |
| 21:26.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you use true redundancy design, means tower with two PSU etc |
| 21:28.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | the sort of stuff that costs 10 times as much as a comparable standard PC |
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| 21:30.48 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: good UPSes have bypass contactor |
| 21:31.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and it's exactly that one that usually fails |
| 21:31.28 | ShadowJK | It had been working nicely for bridging 1-2s power gaps that I get, but then it seems like it failed during self test this morning, and all attached equipment lost power "instantly", for duration of self test |
| 21:31.36 | jacekowski | well, chances of UPS failing and bypass contactor failing are unlikely |
| 21:31.54 | jacekowski | and besides, dual PSU |
| 21:33.17 | ShadowJK | The main switches for our ISP has dual UPS and dual PSU. Unfortunately using qualified electricians seems to counter this, and the dual PSUs in the switch are fed from a single 24VPSU fed by a single UPS |
| 21:43.14 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@athedsl-346927.home.otenet.gr) |
| 21:45.22 | qwazix | anybody used qtm proximity sensor on maemo? does it work? I just re-did something that works on harmattan on maemo but the slot is never triggered |
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| 22:03.33 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, lol |
| 22:04.08 | Estel_ | does anyone know if regular polycarbonate foils would work in capacitive screens? |
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| 22:04.37 | Estel_ | following wikipedika explanation of capacitive (transparent conductive material on top) it shouldn't work good, but something tells me that wikipedia article isn't entiurely precise here |
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| 22:05.08 | beford | [citation needed] |
| 22:05.24 | Estel_ | basically, I located cheap good quality foild for N9, which should fit for N950 too, but I'm concerned about capacitive sh*t |
| 22:06.01 | ShadowJK | vaguely remembers some nokian commenting that the capacitive touch sensor is already borderline with the curved glass shenanigans |
| 22:06.24 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, yea, but N950 doesn't have curved-glass |
| 22:06.33 | Estel_ | if I understood correctly what You mean |
| 22:06.42 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 22:07.24 | Estel_ | my favorite "mark" of foils works well for N900 screen - i.e. 0 sensitivity loss - but resistive is resistive, and capacitive is irritating shit... |
| 22:08.11 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.247.226) |
| 22:08.56 | Estel_ | I always try my bets to keep screens in ideal state, and considering N950 unreplaceable (non purchaseable) digitizer, It's even double |
| 22:09.55 | Estel_ | I also wonder about best material for doing as-thin-as-possible capacitive stylus, gog damn capacitive screens... It will probably turn out to be fubar anyway, due to lower limit of area required for touch detection |
| 22:10.51 | Estel_ | I just wonder if true conductive thing like conductive foam is required, as, after all, my figners are not made of metal too... other material with comparable or better conductivity than human body, yet, not necessary mettalic, should work too |
| 22:14.46 | Estel_ | I'll answer myself - yes, it works with screen protector (tested it with putting one on it, without sticking) |
| 22:15.08 | Estel_ | (i.e. via 2 more layers of foils that protect protector foil, yet, screen still worked) |
| 22:15.30 | Estel_ | now I wonder what kind of resistivity stylus needs really, if 3 layers of foil are no problem |
| 22:16.09 | ShadowJK | suspects it's about distance |
| 22:16.38 | Estel_ | but metal styluses works from huge distance (tested it with broken telescopic antenna) |
| 22:17.00 | Estel_ | this capacitive shit is still kinda mystery for me, other than it just suxx in practice |
| 22:17.56 | Estel_ | it's probably some kind of distance and resistance plot |
| 22:18.48 | ShadowJK | I suspect if the foil was conductive, you'd have problems |
| 22:19.08 | Estel_ | of course foil isn't |
| 22:19.10 | Estel_ | yea |
| 22:19.22 | Estel_ | I would have 100% screen touch detected |
| 22:19.26 | Estel_ | aka palm on screen |
| 22:20.01 | Estel_ | still, fingers - much less conductive than metal - works even through many layers of foil, so I wonder what else than conductive foam could be used |
| 22:20.16 | Estel_ | for a stylus tip |
| 22:20.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | sausage |
| 22:20.29 | Estel_ | ;P |
| 22:20.36 | Estel_ | someone's else finger |
| 22:20.38 | Estel_ | more cool |
| 22:21.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 22:21.39 | Estel_ | female I would take metallic stylus, rip off plastic tip, and replace it with said material, neutral for screen (and much bigger in diameter than oriuginal tip, to fulfill bitchy requiments for touch area) |
| 22:21.57 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, female finger with nice long tips |
| 22:22.06 | Estel_ | time for hunting! |
| 22:23.04 | Estel_ | *after quick check* index finger should be sufficient |
| 22:23.13 | Estel_ | where is my toolbox |
| 22:23.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Wiener_Wuerstchen_fcm.jpg/220px-Wiener_Wuerstchen_fcm.jpg&imgrefurl=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_W%25C3%25BCrstchen&h=168&w=220&sz=12&tbnid=GJUyhF2aBx1xlM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=119&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwiener%2Bwuerstchen%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=wiener+wuerstchen&usg=__OVLuGJJLYpJXSOKe1lqM-YjbVxo=&docid=oOuBnl2QXvcjEM&sa=X&ei=ghQTUNm- |
| 22:23.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOTP4QTy9IHQBQ&ved=0CF4Q9QEwAQ&dur=2890 economy pack of stylii. Don't forget to integrate mustard dispenser in your N9 custom case |
| 22:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq those URLs |
| 22:23.49 | Estel_ | wut a epic link? |
| 22:23.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-( |
| 22:24.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Würstchen |
| 22:24.22 | Estel_ | well, I still insist on using female index fingers |
| 22:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsck google |
| 22:24.33 | Estel_ | most likely, of Nokia's management staff origin |
| 22:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard they don't taste with mustard |
| 22:24.52 | Estel_ | a way of saying "Thank You" for capacitive screen |
| 22:24.57 | Estel_ | sure |
| 22:25.10 | Estel_ | we can prepare them in spiritus |
| 22:25.15 | Estel_ | like lenin's brain |
| 22:25.47 | Estel_ | I wonder how marinating in spiritus affect's finger's conductivity |
| 22:25.49 | SpeedEvil | I've been wondering about that. |
| 22:25.54 | SpeedEvil | Conductive clear silicone rubber. |
| 22:26.03 | Estel_ | separated fingers, or capacitive styli? |
| 22:26.19 | Estel_ | wtf, something like that even exist? it must be damn expensive |
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| 23:38.57 | qwazix | Estel_, have you seen the SU-39 stylus? |
| 23:39.34 | Estel_ | this one? : http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-39 |
| 23:39.37 | Estel_ | to huge for a styli |
| 23:40.08 | qwazix | hahaha, yeah |
| 23:40.24 | Estel_ | but seriouslky, I've found it, nokia one... Well, thanks a lot, will check how it's made |
| 23:40.33 | qwazix | http://images.e-shop.gr/images/TEL/BIG/TEL.006793.jpg |
| 23:40.44 | Estel_ | I'm quite late as per TMO events, how Your great efforts of providing fremantle for harmattan are going? |
| 23:40.49 | Estel_ | s/fremantle/hildon/ |
| 23:41.02 | Estel_ | I've said fremantle, because it's albo about other programs, not only hildon-ui |
| 23:41.03 | qwazix | I got one but doesn't work for any of high end nokias |
| 23:41.21 | Estel_ | qwazix, so it doesn't work for N950/N9? |
| 23:41.30 | qwazix | I don't know if it's defective or it only works for C6 |
| 23:41.43 | qwazix | no, you have to touch it in weird angles to work |
| 23:41.54 | Estel_ | how it's made? i.e. tip, and rest, what material is it? |
| 23:42.00 | qwazix | so that more area touches |
| 23:42.09 | qwazix | seems like plastic |
| 23:42.11 | Estel_ | probably it's about detection area required by screen's driver |
| 23:42.18 | qwazix | probably |
| 23:42.35 | Estel_ | well, so in C6 they used brain and made required detection area smaller, eh? |
| 23:42.38 | qwazix | it's not only the tip that's capacitive, but the whole thing |
| 23:42.42 | Estel_ | it's pity that brain vanished from them later |
| 23:42.55 | Estel_ | and capacitive stylus can't be defective, it's just material of set conductivity |
| 23:43.07 | qwazix | if you touch the side it also registers a touch (with a bit of effort) |
| 23:43.08 | Estel_ | I wonder what it is, no metal, but not regular plastic too |
| 23:43.13 | Estel_ | something more conductive for sure |
| 23:43.24 | Estel_ | nods |
| 23:43.28 | qwazix | I wonder what will happen if I file the tip down to make it wider |
| 23:43.43 | Estel_ | if Yuo can make it 15 mm in diameter, it will work :P |
| 23:43.47 | Estel_ | wlel, maybe 10mm will suffice |
| 23:44.05 | qwazix | About fremantle->harmattan I stalled because I want to finish rawcam for the coding competition |
| 23:44.18 | Estel_ | in any way, it is too much for comfortable use in real things :( but it's capacitive screen design fail, at least in this unit (and most available on market) |
| 23:44.26 | Estel_ | qwazix, I see |
| 23:44.37 | qwazix | but I've got some useful pointers from cordia team, I just probably need to start over... |
| 23:44.38 | Estel_ | well, fremantle for harmattan would surely win all categories in CC :D |
| 23:44.47 | Estel_ | nice |
| 23:45.21 | qwazix | yeah, but I don't think I would have anything end-user friendly before the deadline |
| 23:46.05 | qwazix | By the way wacom over capacitive as on the Galaxy Note wins everything |
| 23:46.11 | qwazix | hands down |
| 23:46.27 | qwazix | then comes a good resistive (N810, N900, 5800) |
| 23:46.42 | Estel_ | wacom on capacitive have pressure sensitivity? |
| 23:46.46 | Estel_ | like for mypaint? |
| 23:47.52 | qwazix | then a good capacitive iPhone, N9, then crappy resistive (C6-00, craplets, vodafone joy), then crappy capacitive (Original samsung galaxy i5700) |
| 23:47.57 | Estel_ | well, I preffer good resistive, and when they add multitouch (which is very effective, as many vedors proved), I don't see any technical reasons for capacitive digitizers to exist, other than annoy by need of special PITA styluses, huge detection area, and problems for usage with gloves |
| 23:48.18 | qwazix | yep, very nice pressure sensitivity, pity that mypaint doesn't run on android |
| 23:48.31 | Estel_ | well, pity that samsung galaxy runs android :D |
| 23:48.42 | Estel_ | shame on them, decent hardware is wasting |
| 23:49.05 | qwazix | Yeah, and although plastic, quality is very good |
| 23:49.20 | Estel_ | hm, so wacom created something usable out of capacitive screens? sounds nice. What about touch area detected? Is it comfortable to hit ultra-mini buttons, like on N900 and Easy debian, for example? |
| 23:50.16 | Estel_ | as in my book, main con of capacitive screens is lack of precision when you need to hit small thing... |
| 23:50.22 | Estel_ | then pressure sensitivity |
| 23:50.34 | qwazix | With stylus yes, with fingers, the usual. It also supports hover (yay) with cursor, and when stylus is hovering over screen finger touches are ignored |
| 23:50.40 | Estel_ | btw in point 1 i also include lack of proper styluses |
| 23:51.01 | Estel_ | well, decent application, at least |
| 23:51.18 | Estel_ | so it's kinda touch screen/touchpad/tablet (as in painting) combo? |
| 23:51.50 | Estel_ | hats off, really. Pity that others don't try to do something like that... Or in fact instead of spending much $$$ on expensive wacom, just use good resistive with multitouch :P |
| 23:51.58 | Estel_ | (but I agree, that this wacom thing sounds neat) |
| 23:52.07 | qwazix | it's just like having a wacom tablet over your phone. My regular wacom pen works fine on the Note |
| 23:52.24 | Estel_ | so stylus for this wacom thing doesn't need to have huge tip, i.e. can be very small? eh, I beg for this on n950 |
| 23:52.34 | qwazix | with button support on the pen and all |
| 23:52.38 | Estel_ | ouh, so it require special pen? |
| 23:52.42 | Estel_ | I see |
| 23:52.45 | qwazix | yeah |
| 23:53.15 | qwazix | it has one included, the tip is small as a bic pen |
| 23:53.16 | Estel_ | well, this way, I preffer good resistive that allows me to use any pen I lke, but, well,m it still sounds better than capacitive hell we have on N950/N9 |
| 23:53.37 | Estel_ | yea, because pressure sensitivity/touch is detected via touch resistor in pen |
| 23:53.48 | Estel_ | so it's, in fact, capacitive-resistive combo, but resistive part is in pen :P |
| 23:53.49 | qwazix | you've got to try it first |
| 23:53.59 | Estel_ | I got wacom painting tablet |
| 23:54.08 | Estel_ | so I can imagine experience of capacitive/wacom combo |
| 23:54.19 | Estel_ | I wonder how it is about power usage when in wacom mode, though |
| 23:54.44 | qwazix | mm, I cant really say, the note is a power sucker by itself anyway |
| 23:55.11 | Estel_ | yea, but wacom things are, in fact, active digitizers, so I bet that it sucks at least as much as whole N900 under middle usage |
| 23:55.15 | Estel_ | moderate* |
| 23:55.32 | Estel_ | well, small usage with screen on |
| 23:56.01 | Estel_ | talking about that, bad design decisions can, actually, screw even best design, like resistive screens, so i'm glad that they did it right on galaxy |
| 23:56.20 | Estel_ | if it's so power-sucker, it remind me of samsung q1-somethjing, from origami project |
| 23:56.26 | Estel_ | it got ncie linux support |
| 23:56.38 | Estel_ | x86 mobile computer, sized as thicker tablet, with resistive screen |
| 23:56.43 | qwazix | I'm googling every other day to check if somebody ported any proper linux on it but nothing |
| 23:56.54 | Estel_ | would be kinda great, if not that suckers made this resistive screen driver totally prone to pressure sensitivity |
| 23:57.00 | Estel_ | it's either "clicked" or not as in mouse |
| 23:57.01 | Estel_ | idiots |
| 23:57.18 | Estel_ | qwazix, won't happen, 'm afraid, would require hardware adaptation of Mer |
| 23:57.27 | Estel_ | well, lets see what Jolla havfe for us |
| 23:57.36 | Estel_ | after all, we have our N900, no matter what :) |
| 23:57.51 | qwazix | I have a remote hope that maybe a tizen adaptation shows up |
| 23:58.02 | Estel_ | I've just ordered parts for usb to serial adaptor, and i'll make Ir receiver dongle for it, so it will learn signals from remotes |
| 23:58.17 | Estel_ | I wouldn't count on tizen |
| 23:58.36 | Estel_ | if Harmattan wasn't thing that fulfil Your dreams, You can be sure that tizen will be even more locked and overall badass |
| 23:59.57 | qwazix | I liked harmattan at first, but the fact that it has serious bugs bothers me |
