| 00:00.25 | nox- | robbiethe1st, serial<->usb without bitbang mode is useless for ir remote stuff tho |
| 00:00.41 | Estel_ | nox-, sounds very interesting, where could I read more about it? any examples of how to detect ftdi based serial adaptor, when buying via net, or maybe it is DIY'able? |
| 00:01.05 | Estel_ | well, most cheap serial->usb adaptors I've seen lacked bitbang |
| 00:01.06 | nox- | Digitus DA-70156 |
| 00:01.14 | robbiethe1st | Uh, why? |
| 00:01.18 | nox- | is one |
| 00:01.39 | robbiethe1st | You have hardware signaling lines, you can always bitbang them? |
| 00:01.45 | nox- | robbiethe1st, not via usb |
| 00:01.48 | Estel_ | wuuuut, 20 usd? |
| 00:01.56 | robbiethe1st | Uh, why not? |
| 00:01.58 | Estel_ | no cheaper chinese things? |
| 00:02.12 | robbiethe1st | I /know/ they're there, I /know/ they work... not fast enough? |
| 00:02.17 | Estel_ | not that it is bad, if it's good quality |
| 00:02.35 | Estel_ | but I wonder, if chinese copycats also use this chip? |
| 00:02.50 | robbiethe1st | FTDI? yes. |
| 00:03.04 | Estel_ | nox-, do you know anything about parallel adaptors for USb and their usage with N900? |
| 00:03.14 | robbiethe1st | Or the common rs232 chip, the PL2302. Look for Arduino programming adaptors. |
| 00:03.39 | Estel_ | PL2302 also works OK with Ir things etc? |
| 00:03.41 | nox- | you can also look for chinese mceusb clones |
| 00:03.41 | robbiethe1st | (pl2302 puts out rs232 voltages, versus fdti which puts out 0v/3-5v instead |
| 00:04.03 | nox- | but only those that dont just emulate a keyboard |
| 00:04.05 | robbiethe1st | Estel_, no clue. I know it works with the Fadal CNC Mill we have at work |
| 00:04.17 | robbiethe1st | And that's old, relatively standards-complient serial. |
| 00:04.40 | nox- | PL2302 doesnt have bitbang mode i think |
| 00:05.14 | nox- | this might be mceusb: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Brand-NEW-Original-Genuine-HP-USB-MCE-IR-Wireless-Receiver-Win7-Vista-US-fast-/270929871250?pt=US_Remote_Controls_Pointers&hash=item3f14adc192 |
| 00:05.15 | robbiethe1st | Which begs the question: why do you *need* bitbang mode? |
| 00:05.41 | nox- | robbiethe1st, normal usb serial protocol is too slow |
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| 00:06.10 | nox- | for bitbanging the control lines |
| 00:06.31 | robbiethe1st | I'm guessing you're dealing with a 'dumb' IR device? |
| 00:06.37 | nox- | yes |
| 00:06.47 | nox- | ir reciever chip or ir diode |
| 00:06.52 | robbiethe1st | versus something that can be sent a couple of characters, and send out the bit-stream based on that. |
| 00:07.02 | nox- | yes sure thats something else |
| 00:08.17 | nox- | Estel_, never used parallel usb but i suppose they're also too slow for bitbanging ir |
| 00:09.03 | Estel_ | nox-, actually, I though about on-the-field mainteintance of CNC machines that use parallel and linuxCNC |
| 00:09.04 | robbiethe1st | How fast are we dealing with? what sort of frequency are these IR signals transmitted at? |
| 00:09.05 | Estel_ | software |
| 00:09.28 | Estel_ | drivers compatible with linuxCNC use parallel, most of the times |
| 00:09.58 | Estel_ | I know N900 wouldn't be super-hyper beast at generating steps for drivers, but for debugging/mainteintance it should suffice |
| 00:10.14 | robbiethe1st | Well, if you can get a driver for it(possibly by compiling the module from general Linux source), I'm sure it'd work |
| 00:10.57 | Estel_ | nox, what do you think about that? |
| 00:10.59 | Estel_ | http://allegro.pl/konwerter-usb-rs232-com-na-ft232-rl-ftdi-i2494850791.html |
| 00:11.03 | Estel_ | don't worry about polish language |
| 00:11.10 | Estel_ | photos and parameters are universal |
| 00:11.23 | Estel_ | I'm little lsot amongst many types of ftdi chips |
| 00:11.30 | Estel_ | this one looks like slower than digitus (same price) |
| 00:11.36 | Estel_ | at leats reading poarameters |
| 00:11.50 | Estel_ | digitus claims up to !mbps compatibility, this one 450 kbps, I don't know if it matters really |
| 00:11.57 | nox- | Estel_, as long as its really ftdi it'll probably work |
| 00:12.23 | robbiethe1st | For serial, most things aren't faster than 115200 baud, 115.2kbps |
| 00:13.53 | nox- | robbiethe1st, 36 kHz carrier or similar |
| 00:15.01 | robbiethe1st | For IR? Yeah, I'd want a 'smart' chip there. |
| 00:15.50 | nox- | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC-5 |
| 00:15.55 | nox- | one popular protocol |
| 00:19.33 | Estel_ | nox-, sorry for bugging with direct question, but something not-completely-assembled like that: |
| 00:19.34 | Estel_ | http://allegro.pl/konwerter-usb-rs232-ttl-interfejs-ft232-rl-kabel-i2493207148.html |
| 00:20.00 | Estel_ | how it's compared to digitus? i.e. digitus is "open", or chip is covered in unpenetrable black something? |
| 00:20.48 | Estel_ | Also, I wonder if linux compatibility is no problem as long as it's FTDI, or it also depends on assembled unit architecture |
| 00:21.02 | Estel_ | I'm absolutely green on such adaptors, so again, sorry for pestering :) |
| 00:21.05 | nox- | digitus is just a normal usb-to-serial black covered dongle that happens to use an ftdi inside |
| 00:21.15 | Estel_ | nods |
| 00:21.42 | nox- | i _think_ ftdi all have the needed bitbang mode... |
| 00:21.47 | Estel_ | thing I've linked is cheaper and it's not dongl;e, + *claims* to have much more possibilities, no idea how to read between the lines properly, when it comes to such things |
| 00:21.59 | nox- | so that thing you liked should do as well |
| 00:22.23 | Estel_ | of course it require putting flex and serial port there, I suppose ;) |
| 00:22.24 | RiD | lol |
| 00:23.07 | nox- | well this one uses ttl levels not rs232 levels but ofc if you want to connect an ir chip/ir diode thats better |
| 00:24.11 | nox- | if you just want something thats ready made for ir get an mceusb but they maybe a bit more pricey |
| 00:26.40 | Estel_ | no no, i would like multi-purpose thing, expandable to whatever may come to my mind latter |
| 00:26.45 | Estel_ | the more universal it is, the better |
| 00:27.05 | Estel_ | erm, what is "better" generally, not only for IR diode, ttl levels or rs232 levels? |
| 00:27.30 | Estel_ | also, any experiences with ATmega8U2 chips? Arduino switched from using ftdi to this one, programmed as USB->serial converter |
| 00:27.36 | Estel_ | no idea about reasoning |
| 00:27.40 | nox- | rs232 levels if you want to connect to `nromal' serial ports |
| 00:27.45 | nox- | normal even |
| 00:28.20 | nox- | i think theres a popular chip to convert ttl to rs232 levels called max232 |
| 00:28.36 | robbiethe1st | Yup |
| 00:28.45 | robbiethe1st | Several versions, infact. |
| 00:28.52 | nox- | heh |
| 00:29.09 | Estel_ | max232? I have 10 of such chips lying around |
| 00:29.20 | nox- | :) |
| 00:29.29 | Estel_ | once wanted (and still want, just need to find time) to do serial mod to my wrt54gl, or was it usb 1.1 port? I don't remember |
| 00:29.47 | Estel_ | maxim is very kind to send free samples to literally anyone willing |
| 00:30.21 | Estel_ | requiment - you must order at least 50 of them and declare 5000 units produced per year, or they may think You're fake ;p |
| 00:31.04 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, as for using parallel to usb converter for linuxCNC machine, main concern is that 99% adaptors emulate only things needed for printers |
| 00:31.13 | Estel_ | and linuxCNC use, in fact, all pins of parallel |
| 00:31.27 | Estel_ | linuxCNC and CNC drivers compatible with it |
| 00:32.03 | Estel_ | nah, max232 was definitely needed for USB mod in wrt54gl |
| 00:35.58 | nox- | usb doesnt use rs232 levels... |
| 00:36.06 | nox- | so must be serial connection |
| 00:36.43 | RiD | see you all :) |
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| 00:45.33 | Estel_ | nox-, IIRC, in wrt54g;, some things for usb 1.1 mod require same pins as used for serial |
| 00:45.38 | Estel_ | or I've mixed everything up :) |
| 00:46.04 | nox- | might be, but you only need rs232 levels if you want to connect as serial |
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| 01:02.31 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, when using charge21.sh and bq27200.sh 5, at the same time, their results are mutually exclusive |
| 01:02.54 | Estel_ | I mean that charge21.sh shows charging current quite high ammount off, of what bq27200.sh shows (the latter seems to be real) |
| 01:03.07 | Estel_ | I don't mean only system usage calculation, but whole ammount |
| 01:03.23 | Estel_ | is it normal? |
| 01:03.35 | Estel_ | charge21.sh acts like it's guessworking no only system load, but whole current balance |
| 01:03.55 | Estel_ | it's "generally" ok, but up to 150 mA wrong, sometimes (more in extreme cases) |
| 01:05.50 | robbiethe1st | What's charge21.sh? |
| 01:06.37 | robbiethe1st | I know I've got a working charge.sh in BackupMenu; just lets the bq2700 do it's thing with reasonable defaults and seems to work. |
| 01:07.36 | Estel_ | charge21.sh seems like updated version of charge.sh |
| 01:07.40 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I see what the problem is |
| 01:08.13 | Estel_ | charge21.sh shows both "Rate" and "system" basing it on assumption, that it's chargin on full declared ammount (1250 mA, in my case) |
| 01:08.33 | Estel_ | still, it's wrong, as for a life of mine, it want to charge only with 950 mA max |
| 01:08.48 | Estel_ | well, 1050 at beginning of charging, for few minutes |
| 01:08.58 | Estel_ | then, both "Rate" and "System" is going fubar |
| 01:09.46 | Estel_ | consideriong, that charge SH know real relative current (i.e. one going to battery, = whole current - used by system) couldn't it use it as base for calculations,. and show it as "Rate"... |
| 01:10.04 | Estel_ | then, try to calculate system load, and show it as "System" (-some_value) |
| 01:10.22 | Estel_ | so user would knwo that real charging value is "Rate" - "System"? |
| 01:10.33 | Estel_ | or even 3th value, as a result of this calculation, for slow math ones? |
| 01:10.54 | Estel_ | now, when it is guessworking both rate and system, whole calculation is quite useless, as it's wrong 99% of time (at least in my case) |
| 01:11.28 | MohammadAG | oh nice, MS offers Windows 7 ISOs |
| 01:11.37 | Estel_ | i.e. it always try to have "Rate" + "System" as = 1250, so, as a result, both "Rate" and "system" are wrong, with the latter being wrong totally (showing 300 mA, when real usage is 8 mA, for example) |
| 01:11.42 | MohammadAG | closes some piracy website |
| 01:12.08 | Estel_ | don't worry, in next version they will force You to use beecons, MohammadAG ;) |
| 01:12.25 | Estel_ | You though that windows mobile was bad? Now You will have it in Your desktop too ;P |
| 01:12.26 | MohammadAG | if anyone needs the links http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f94/original-untouched-windows-7-sp1-iso-32-bit-64-bit-220877/ |
| 01:12.43 | MohammadAG | this is actually a huge step Estel_ |
| 01:12.50 | Estel_ | sure, backward one |
| 01:12.54 | MohammadAG | now I don't need to pirate ISOs to install a legal copy |
| 01:12.56 | MohammadAG | nope |
| 01:13.05 | Estel_ | no no |
| 01:13.09 | Estel_ | we're talking about two different things |
| 01:13.19 | Estel_ | I tyalk about desktop in "winbdows 8" or whatever it will be called |
| 01:13.22 | MohammadAG | you're talking about a different thing :P |
| 01:13.33 | Estel_ | as for iso's, I couldn't care less :D |
| 01:13.41 | Estel_ | <Estel_> don't worry, in next version they will force You to use beecons, MohammadAG ;) |
| 01:14.00 | Estel_ | well, considering this is #maemo channel, we both talk about "different" thing ;) |
| 01:14.13 | MohammadAG | I need to punch my ISP in the balls |
| 01:14.21 | MohammadAG | 10MBps speed isn't 1000kbps |
| 01:15.02 | Estel_ | It remind me, that I must finally sign contract for 50 mbps net, instead of leeching neighbour's !mbps one |
| 01:15.03 | robbiethe1st | Sure, it is. In ISP-speak |
| 01:15.14 | Estel_ | s/!mbps/1mbps/ |
| 01:15.31 | MohammadAG | robbiethe1st, I expect 1.4MB/s downloads speeds |
| 01:15.34 | MohammadAG | not 1.0 |
| 01:15.41 | MohammadAG | yes, 0.4 makes a difference :P |
| 01:15.52 | robbiethe1st | heh |
| 01:16.04 | Estel_ | 1000 kbps would be 128 KB/s download speed |
| 01:16.17 | Estel_ | so You need to punch them in the balls, but not so hard |
| 01:16.48 | nox- | some german cable isps match for `speedtest' in urls and drop limiting... |
| 01:17.06 | Estel_ | well, when You've written: |
| 01:17.11 | Estel_ | MohammadAG> 10MBps speed isn't 1000kbps |
| 01:17.17 | Estel_ | You though You actually talk about 80 mbps |
| 01:17.17 | MohammadAG | 1000kb/s |
| 01:17.27 | Estel_ | it's about B and b |
| 01:17.44 | Estel_ | bytes/bits |
| 01:17.50 | Estel_ | bite Your ISP, anyway ;) |
| 01:17.52 | robbiethe1st | nox-: Cool... just need to proxy everything through something with speedtest in the name |
| 01:18.02 | nox- | robbiethe1st, hehe |
| 01:18.12 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, lol |
| 01:19.01 | nox- | (i.e. ppl get the full speed only for speedtests and lower otherwise) |
| 01:19.04 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, make Your cheap p;ayware proxy with such name, and You're a millionare |
| 01:19.10 | robbiethe1st | heh |
| 01:19.12 | nox- | hahaha |
| 01:19.13 | Estel_ | do You imagine, how many ISP are doing that? |
| 01:19.25 | nox- | probably not few... |
| 01:19.31 | Estel_ | at leats until they introduce burts/packet size limits |
| 01:19.40 | Estel_ | so You can upgrade your proxy too |
| 01:19.51 | Estel_ | and business goes on :) |
| 01:20.20 | Estel_ | better than payware softporn site |
| 01:20.32 | Estel_ | although actual "coding" is much less pleasant |
| 01:23.47 | RiD | uhh |
| 01:23.53 | RiD | ...o_o |
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| 02:49.29 | ShadowJK | Estel_; yes I changed that to 1250 when you wanted to test charging at 1250. It's usually vaguely correct as long as charger is able to provide requested current, even if charger chip is charging at lower rathe than that |
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| 02:51.14 | ShadowJK | Estel_; oh also the RS value might be different from your charge21.sh and bq27200.sh version. I use RS=21 normally |
| 02:51.18 | ShadowJK | (as that was the empirically derived value by some MeeGo kernel hackers back in the day) |
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| 02:52.49 | ShadowJK | although, the "parasitic resistance" as I call it, might be actually higher than 132 when charging at >950 |
| 02:53.55 | ShadowJK | (CR parameter) |
| 02:53.56 | ShadowJK | btw, rate is net rate in/out of battery, as measured by bq27200 |
| 02:55.55 | ShadowJK | sys and ch are made up. sys guesstimates current used by system, ch guesstimates current provided by charger. If the calculation shows a ch rate higher than the set rate, it gets clamped to set rate. If charger for some reason is unable the source enough current from attached dc adapter, the calculation starts showing that deficit as system use, wrongly |
| 02:56.11 | RST38h | moos at ShadowJK |
| 02:56.29 | ShadowJK | ok, time for work |
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| 03:09.18 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, if "Rate" is net in/out from battery, shouldn't it be same, when reported by charge21.sh and bq27200.sh (in loop)? |
| 03:09.39 | Estel_ | I understand this whole thing the way You described it here, but this is the thing that makes me wonder |
| 03:10.23 | Estel_ | BTW, I eliminated possibility of charger providing too low power, by connecting it to 20A PS ;) |
| 03:11.57 | Estel_ | BTw, I may be wrong, but current provided by bq27200.sh seems to be more in line with "reality" that "Ratye" provided by charge21.sh . and again, If I understand it correctly, rate and current reported by bq27200.sh should be the same no? Only "system" (i.e. guess-worked value used by system) and ch (rate - syustem) should be different, no? |
| 03:12.11 | Estel_ | of course, if I understand it wrong way, scratch it :) |
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| 03:21.46 | EdLin | does anyone know of a website where genuine n900 styluses are sold? |
| 03:22.59 | EdLin | nokia.com pretends they never sold the device. |
| 03:23.17 | EdLin | google shopping gives me capacitive stylii as results, as does amazon |
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| 04:45.06 | Estel_ | EdLin, replacement styluses are quite cheap, but made from more elastic, worse plastic |
| 04:45.24 | Estel_ | genuine is hard and nice, whatever it sounds |
| 04:45.56 | Estel_ | if had to choose, I would preffer scratched etc genuine stylus, over new replacement |
| 04:46.02 | Estel_ | it's much more comfortable |
| 04:47.38 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, N900's charging circuit - does it have some kind of temperature/time cut-off? |
| 04:48.07 | Estel_ | I got strange feeling, that after soldering USB port to motherboard, ~40% of times it doesn't work for first ~10 minutes |
| 04:48.30 | Estel_ | despite everything is ok and no errors. After that, everything seems fine, usb and charging work fine. It's not 1st time I see such thing |
| 04:48.55 | Estel_ | or maybe not charging circuit, it may be related to usb at all. No idea why heated ground plane could cause smth like that |
| 04:49.31 | Estel_ | I not sure if I'vent ruined one perfectly working N900 some time ago, due to that (trying to "fix" messed USB, that in fact was ok, just cut-off after soldering for some time) |
| 04:49.53 | Estel_ | (You know, when You try to repair something that works, You usually end up in fckd'ing it totally) |
| 04:50.41 | Estel_ | few minutes ago I've almost repeated this mistake, but got englightened and assembled device again - bah, everything works, without any intervention from my side |
| 04:51.18 | Estel_ | 4 minutes earlier, it wasn't responding at all to USB put inside (not yesterday's repaired device, just one perfecxtly working, that i've soldered down usb port, aka reinforced) |
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| 05:20.36 | Sc0rpius | I think I have never used the stylus in my N900 except for maybe play Angry Birds accurately |
| 05:20.56 | Sc0rpius | I had even forgotten it had a stylus :S |
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| 05:32.33 | EdLin | hi, has anyone here gotten a decent n900 from eBay seller cellphonesforever or have I screwed myself out of $162.50? |
| 05:33.27 | EdLin | I should have read tmo before buying from them... |
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| 06:59.50 | DocScrutinizer06 | Estel_: charger chip has 2 timers, none like 10 min though |
| 07:01.01 | DocScrutinizer06 | Estel_: 1 timer is 10..30s and resets chip when you stop talking to chip via I2C (except initial 'emergency' charging without sw supervision) |
| 07:01.41 | DocScrutinizer06 | Estel_: 2nd timer is only while in 'emergency' charge and is 32 min after which charger chip shuts down charging |
| 07:01.43 | DocScrutinizer06 | see |
| 07:01.48 | DocScrutinizer06 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 07:01.49 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 07:02.54 | DocScrutinizer06 | Estel_: there's also overtemp shutdown, but I don't see how that could cause any of the problems like you described them |
| 07:04.33 | DocScrutinizer06 | bme also should stop charging when battery is too cold (<-20°C) or too hot (>ca.60°C) |
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| 07:11.04 | freemangordon | zeq1: fennec sunspider is back to 6120ms, but memory usage is enormous |
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| 07:14.57 | freemangordon | zeq1: with only TMO open it uses 112 Mib (RSS) :( |
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| 07:19.38 | Macer | wow |
| 07:19.41 | Macer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBY_Z-Vw0wM&feature=share |
| 07:19.49 | Macer | w....t.....f.....? total parent fail |
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| 07:27.43 | zeq1 | freemangordon: is it due to the cflags? or a fennec issue? |
| 07:27.58 | zeq1 | that is huge! |
| 07:28.07 | zeq1 | I only just read 112Mib? |
| 07:29.24 | zeq1 | freemangordon: what cflags are you using for fennec? |
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| 07:38.10 | DocScrutinizer06 | Macer: haha nice. Youtube wants my email addr - FSCK NO WAY! |
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| 07:40.04 | DocScrutinizer06 | anyway judging by the title I hope this wasn't in USA, otherwise authorities will wait until the 'criminal' is 14(?), then put him to jail for 15 years |
| 07:40.43 | DocScrutinizer06 | they done this for 8 year old boy kissing(SIC!) a girl in school class |
| 07:41.10 | Venemo_N9 | lol |
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| 07:41.47 | DocScrutinizer06 | maybe the number been slightly different, like it maybe only was 5 years jail |
| 07:42.02 | DocScrutinizer06 | and the boy might have been 6, or 9 |
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| 07:53.23 | freemangordon | zeq1: -fno-strict-volatile-bitfields -Wno-psabi |
| 07:53.44 | freemangordon | going to try the new fancy stuff (vectorizer, etc |
| 07:54.00 | freemangordon | but the isue if with fennec, not with the compiler |
| 07:56.09 | zeq1 | freemangordon: just thought I'd check :) |
| 07:56.42 | freemangordon | zeq1: can't parse that |
| 07:57.24 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I was just making sure the problem was with fennec not cflags after all the adventures yesterday! |
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| 07:58.30 | zeq1 | freemangordon: did you have to fix anything to make it build? |
| 07:58.36 | freemangordon | no |
| 07:59.03 | zeq1 | okay, that's good :) |
| 08:00.38 | zeq1 | we should, however, change the defines we're using for rotation as romaxa suggested. There should be an explicity define for needing client-side rotation and another for supporting fremantle. |
| 08:00.40 | freemangordon | yeah. going to find the answer to romaxa's question re comment/code discrepancy |
| 08:01.20 | freemangordon | and to check why it seems to me we're not using shm |
| 08:03.58 | zeq1 | X shm? |
| 08:04.21 | freemangordon | yep |
| 08:04.57 | zeq1 | that's strange |
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| 08:07.50 | freemangordon | well, it is used |
| 08:07.59 | freemangordon | shm i mean |
| 08:08.31 | zeq1 | so how is it not working? |
| 08:08.41 | freemangordon | maybe it is |
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| 08:08.56 | *** part/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 08:09.03 | freemangordon | or maybe not, it'll need some printfs ;) |
| 08:09.50 | freemangordon | but anyway now I am checking if (mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) { |
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| 08:11.01 | zeq1 | ok :) |
| 08:11.19 | freemangordon | zeq1: BTW you can comment on the bugtracker that with latest m-c sunspider result is back to normal |
| 08:11.28 | freemangordon | to close that |
| 08:11.41 | freemangordon | i can do it too |
| 08:12.21 | freemangordon | well, i'll do it |
| 08:13.48 | zeq1 | ok |
| 08:13.56 | freemangordon | done |
| 08:14.34 | zeq1 | I noticed that the libc was built on etchnhalf rather than etch: |
| 08:14.49 | freemangordon | whatever that is :D |
| 08:14.50 | zeq1 | Compiled on a Linux >>2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-amd64<< system on 2010-06-08. |
| 08:15.04 | freemangordon | aah, devkit |
| 08:15.09 | zeq1 | yeah |
| 08:16.04 | zeq1 | so maybe the Nokia provided etch devkit isn't the same as the official sb one? |
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| 08:17.07 | zeq1 | you have the offical Nokia SB, right? |
| 08:17.13 | freemangordon | yes |
| 08:17.19 | freemangordon | vmware image |
| 08:17.34 | zeq1 | yeah, any way you can tell what version the etch devkit is? |
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| 08:18.16 | zeq1 | /opt/scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/ChangeLog |
| 08:18.19 | zeq1 | maybe |
| 08:18.55 | zeq1 | Thu May 27 11:15:33 EEST 2010 Jussi Hakala <jussi.hakala@movial.com> tagged sb-debian-devkit_1.0.11 |
| 08:19.57 | freemangordon | 1.0.10 |
| 08:20.25 | freemangordon | 2 may 2008 |
| 08:20.34 | zeq1 | not that then! |
| 08:20.43 | zeq1 | :/ |
| 08:21.18 | zeq1 | I still can't figure out how qmltube works with DH_COMPAT=7 |
| 08:21.45 | freemangordon | i told you, there is updated debhelper in extras-devel afaik |
| 08:23.06 | freemangordon | zeq1: latest qmltube in extras-devel is 0.3.9 |
| 08:23.17 | Macer | DocScrutinizer06: really?? |
| 08:23.23 | freemangordon | are you sure you don't have harmattan version? |
| 08:23.26 | Macer | didn't know youtube asks for an email heh |
| 08:23.38 | zeq1 | umm |
| 08:23.51 | zeq1 | quteTube-QML 1.3.1 (on my device) |
| 08:24.01 | DocScrutinizer06 | really what? |
| 08:24.29 | DocScrutinizer06 | ooh youtube |
| 08:24.37 | freemangordon | zeq1: you are sure you are holding n900? :P |
| 08:24.46 | freemangordon | *are you |
| 08:24.48 | zeq1 | definitely LOL |
| 08:25.07 | DocScrutinizer06 | it's been tagged "might not be appropriate to some... please verify your age by registering with your email and password" |
| 08:25.16 | zeq1 | that said, the embbedded video player isn't working |
| 08:25.34 | zeq1 | everything else does though |
| 08:25.34 | freemangordon | zeq1: yeah, 1.3.1 here too |
| 08:25.42 | freemangordon | which player? |
| 08:25.59 | freemangordon | qmltube video player? |
| 08:26.00 | zeq1 | cuteTube Player |
| 08:26.16 | DocScrutinizer06 | chokes at qutetube-*QML* |
| 08:26.37 | zeq1 | DocScrutinizer06: QML seems pretty quick here :) |
| 08:27.05 | freemangordon | hmm, works like charm here |
| 08:27.19 | zeq1 | freemangordon: something fishy with my device? |
| 08:27.25 | zeq1 | it hasn't worked for months |
| 08:27.32 | freemangordon | zeq1: what did you try to play? |
| 08:27.38 | freemangordon | zeq1: deffinitely |
| 08:27.47 | zeq1 | since a CSSU (not thumb) update ages ago |
| 08:27.57 | DocScrutinizer06 | I think of QML like adams described it for the universe: "it's invention been considered the wrong step by most, and made several people quite angry" |
| 08:28.08 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 08:28.14 | zeq1 | freemangordon: any video clip I try |
| 08:28.24 | freemangordon | zeq1: dmesg? |
| 08:28.28 | zeq1 | freemangordon: LOL |
| 08:28.30 | freemangordon | anything there |
| 08:28.32 | zeq1 | DocScrutinizer06: LOL |
| 08:28.35 | zeq1 | oops |
| 08:28.46 | zeq1 | I'll take a look |
| 08:29.04 | freemangordon | zeq1: but i am using 720p codecs |
| 08:30.14 | zeq1 | nothing in dmes |
| 08:30.15 | zeq1 | dmesg |
| 08:30.39 | zeq1 | it just says Loading... then goes straight to related |
| 08:31.02 | freemangordon | run it from cli, maybe some message wil pop |
| 08:31.08 | zeq1 | what's the package for the 720p codecs? |
| 08:31.18 | freemangordon | no package ;) |
| 08:31.44 | zeq1 | ah ok, manually installed |
| 08:31.57 | freemangordon | talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=77695 |
| 08:33.20 | zeq1 | any reason it's not in the thumb repo? |
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| 08:33.56 | freemangordon | yes, DSP codecs come from Nokia |
| 08:35.09 | zeq1 | IP distribution issues :( |
| 08:35.52 | freemangordon | yes. though most probably there will be no problem to put that in extras |
| 08:36.12 | freemangordon | but i've never start doing it |
| 08:36.30 | freemangordon | maybe it is time ;) |
| 08:36.53 | vi__ | just do it. |
| 08:37.02 | vi__ | No one gives a shit about IP on the n900 any more. |
| 08:37.32 | vi__ | Which is why I am so annoyed they won't just open most of fremantle up. |
| 08:37.44 | freemangordon | it is not n900, but n950 |
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| 08:37.52 | vi__ | There is nothing to lose. |
| 08:37.56 | vi__ | N950? |
| 08:37.58 | freemangordon | the IP I mean |
| 08:38.00 | vi__ | Even less fucks given. |
| 08:38.07 | freemangordon | yeah, codecs are from N9/50 |
| 08:38.12 | freemangordon | :D:D:D |
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| 08:38.30 | freemangordon | well, might think of it |
| 08:38.57 | vi__ | why not just host them on a webserver and add a wget to the installation script? |
| 08:39.34 | freemangordon | thats too hackish for me |
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| 08:44.26 | kerio | it's what debian does for flashplayer |
| 08:44.57 | kerio | debconf wgets the archive from adobe.com and puts it in the correct place |
| 08:45.17 | kerio | it would be weirder here, though |
| 08:45.25 | kerio | because you have to install a .deb |
| 08:47.09 | freemangordon | zeq1: rotation works with if (!mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) { too |
| 08:47.47 | zeq1 | I guess we don't need it anymore then |
| 08:48.07 | freemangordon | hmm, but, but it was if (mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) { |
| 08:48.20 | freemangordon | you didn't fixed it :D |
| 08:48.28 | freemangordon | your fix was adding ! |
| 08:48.29 | kerio | freemangordon: a tiny webserver that serves a tiny repo with some redirects for packages to localhost |
| 08:48.42 | zeq1 | LOL |
| 08:48.59 | zeq1 | did I misread the comment and nobody else picked up on it? |
| 08:49.44 | zeq1 | what was the comment again? |
| 08:50.07 | freemangordon | // synthesize a resize event if this isn't a toplevel |
| 08:50.45 | zeq1 | hmm |
| 08:50.52 | freemangordon | and the original code is "if (mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) {" |
| 08:50.59 | freemangordon | the opposite to the comment |
| 08:51.05 | zeq1 | exactly# |
| 08:51.25 | freemangordon | but I was thinking your fix is commited in our repo |
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| 08:51.35 | zeq1 | I'm officially confused |
| 08:51.39 | freemangordon | that is why I just add ! and compile |
| 08:51.45 | zeq1 | ah |
| 08:51.52 | freemangordon | without thinking :D |
| 08:51.52 | zeq1 | had I already removed it? |
| 08:52.06 | freemangordon | ending up with a code we know that works :D |
| 08:52.16 | zeq1 | (not put it back when I refactored the patches) |
| 08:52.21 | freemangordon | yes |
| 08:52.38 | zeq1 | yeah, I vaguely remember now :P |
| 08:52.46 | freemangordon | now I removed ! and compiling |
| 08:53.02 | zeq1 | sorry about that! :$ |
| 08:53.09 | freemangordon | np |
| 08:53.11 | freemangordon | is of for a cigarette |
| 08:53.14 | freemangordon | *off |
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| 08:58.39 | zeq1 | still doesn't work :( |
| 09:04.18 | freemangordon | zeq1: which one? |
| 09:04.29 | freemangordon | qmltube? |
| 09:06.53 | zeq1 | yeah, cutetube-QML. I've not tried the other one. |
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| 09:10.50 | zeq1 | I think it's actually failing to establish a connection to the video :S |
| 09:11.00 | zeq1 | (network rather than codec problem) |
| 09:11.33 | zeq1 | cutetube (not QML) just sits there with the player non-advancing and downloads seem stuck at 0% |
| 09:12.10 | zeq1 | oh well, never mind. |
| 09:12.21 | zeq1 | I'm not going to reflash just for cutetube |
| 09:12.33 | freemangordon | :D |
| 09:14.30 | kerio | D: |
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| 09:18.03 | kerio | freemangordon: are the 720p codecs downloadable from the n9/50 repos without having to have a n9/50? |
| 09:18.53 | freemangordon | yes |
| 09:19.00 | kerio | and does apt handle http redirects? |
| 09:20.10 | kerio | if so, you can just make the http server redirect to the nokia server, and add the packages to your repo |
| 09:20.26 | kerio | it would be a massive kludge, mind you |
| 09:22.40 | kerio | aww, it doesn't :( |
| 09:23.19 | teotwaki | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/18645 |
| 09:25.06 | kerio | hmm, it's an old bug |
| 09:25.07 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I'm trying to rebuild glibc |
| 09:25.23 | freemangordon | zeq1: without ! it works too, but there is a white stripe on the right side from time to time when in portrait |
| 09:25.41 | freemangordon | i wonder do we need that code at all |
| 09:25.45 | kerio | i wonder if it's fixed on the n900's apt |
| 09:25.59 | zeq1 | freemangordon: so with it the same as the comment we get a stripe sometimes? |
| 09:27.40 | zeq1 | I've rebuilt glibc, not quite perfect yet, it segfaults during setup in SB, not sure from what. It seems to be otherwise working though. Two questions though: |
| 09:28.10 | zeq1 | Why does it have a minimum kernel version of 2.6.0? |
| 09:28.21 | zeq1 | Why is it built --without-fp? |
| 09:29.01 | zeq1 | I had to apply a couple of patches to get it to build with gcc47 |
| 09:29.02 | freemangordon | zeq1: no, we have a stripe when comment contradicts the code |
| 09:29.14 | freemangordon | i.e. without ! |
| 09:29.34 | zeq1 | isn't that how we've been running it for the last couple of weeks? |
| 09:29.42 | kerio | merlin1991: could we try setting up a package in a repo that's 302ed to another web server? |
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| 09:30.29 | freemangordon | zeq1: the original code is without !, and it gives a stripe |
| 09:31.48 | zeq1 | didn't you say that's what we have been using recently/ |
| 09:31.49 | zeq1 | ? |
| 09:32.23 | freemangordon | i am not sure about recently, i was thinking your patch is always there |
| 09:32.31 | freemangordon | i.e. adding ! |
| 09:32.49 | freemangordon | so the code to be as described in th comment |
| 09:33.11 | freemangordon | without your patch we hav a stripe in portrait |
| 09:35.12 | zeq1 | we have to go with your testing results anyway, are you going to let romaxa know? |
| 09:35.57 | zeq1 | does anybody have any idea why glibc is built --without-fp and min kernel 2.6.0? |
| 09:35.59 | freemangordon | zeq1: could you repeat the test on your side, just to make sure |
| 09:36.08 | zeq1 | freemangordon: sure |
| 09:36.40 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I'd better do that before I risk putting my new libc6 on my device ;) |
| 09:36.58 | freemangordon | yeah :) |
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| 09:41.30 | zeq1 | freemangordon: btw, I know you're not keen on makeing libc thumb, but my new libc is ~800K instead of 1.1M |
| 09:41.55 | freemangordon | well, if it works ok, then why not |
| 09:42.23 | zeq1 | plus it isn't soft-float anymore and is targeted for our kernel version |
| 09:42.37 | zeq1 | 2.6.28 anyway |
| 09:42.47 | freemangordon | what, isn't soft-float? |
| 09:42.55 | freemangordon | hardfp? |
| 09:43.05 | zeq1 | no, glibc was built --without-fp |
| 09:43.10 | freemangordon | aah, ok :) |
| 09:43.24 | zeq1 | it didn't use any fp internally including libm... |
| 09:44.34 | zeq1 | the minimum kernel version was even stranger though, the fremantle libc can't use any kernel features (syscalls) than weren't in 2.6.0 |
| 09:44.57 | zeq1 | I wonder why they did that? |
| 09:47.47 | freemangordon | NFC |
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| 09:48.58 | freemangordon | is off |
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| 11:52.07 | ShadowJK | Estel_; check is RS variable is same in both |
| 11:54.58 | ShadowJK | Estel_; first versions used RS=20, because 20 was a nice round number that seemed to produce sensible results |
| 11:55.59 | ShadowJK | then someone with a N900 jig and lab psu tested different values and said RS=21 was closest match |
| 11:56.02 | ShadowJK | so I changed it to that then |
| 11:56.36 | ShadowJK | it's a 5% difference in reported rate anyway |
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| 12:06.12 | Macer | damnit |
| 12:06.15 | Macer | gtalk seems down |
| 12:06.17 | Macer | wtf |
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| 13:06.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | timeless_: ???? long time no see |
| 13:06.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | hi :-D |
| 13:09.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: the 20 also came as 2 times 10 iirc |
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| 13:16.06 | RiD | http://i.imgur.com/R9MBW.gif |
| 13:16.09 | RiD | http://i.imgur.com/kHDU1.gif |
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| 13:27.21 | RST38h | Meanwhile: http://allthingsd.com/20120725/apple-google-warned-samsung-against-copying-us/ |
| 13:29.29 | RST38h | Also: "We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. Its a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think well lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people." |
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| 13:34.27 | edheldil | RST38h: from where's the second quote? |
| 13:35.25 | vi__ | RiD: I like how the seagull runs outta the store with his loot after gingerly walking in. He knew what he was doing. |
| 13:35.48 | teotwaki | edheldil: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377 |
| 13:35.59 | edheldil | I saw similar ones already - squirrels plundering vending machines, etc.. :) |
| 13:36.41 | StyXman_ | edheldil: most probably here: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/07/26/1249246/why-valve-wants-to-port-games-to-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe |
| 13:37.08 | vi__ | wait, does that mean half life 3 will be released on linux only?? |
| 13:37.13 | teotwaki | edheldil: also http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/07/26/gabe-newell-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe |
| 13:38.06 | vi__ | I think that would end 'doze. |
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| 13:38.12 | RiD | vi__ they knew the danger |
| 13:39.16 | edheldil | ok, in context it makes more sense |
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| 13:44.16 | vi__ | I remember playing CS:S through wine. |
| 13:44.24 | vi__ | I felt like a badass. |
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| 13:44.42 | vi__ | ...with my 17FPS. |
| 13:45.05 | teotwaki | I remember playing warcraft 3, and getting better performance through wine than was achievable natively under Windows. |
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| 13:45.52 | vi__ | teotwaki: How is that even possible?? |
| 13:46.28 | ShadowJK | It's about time for another Windows Bob or Windows ME |
| 13:46.31 | teotwaki | vi__: Wine Is Not (an) Emulator. |
| 13:47.38 | JakDaRippa | just tried flashing my N900 several times but keep getting this message: Write failed after 0 bytes usb_bulk_write: No error |
| 13:47.42 | vi__ | was windows ME named after the disease or was the disease named after windows ME? |
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| 14:02.06 | zeq1 | freemangordon: at least I don't have to rebuild the whole thing again after making the change! |
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| 14:03.44 | zeq1 | anybody: what's a good benchmark to test libc6 performance? |
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| 14:11.35 | edheldil | that would depend on the particular function you would want to benchmark, I am afraid |
| 14:12.04 | edheldil | as libc6 does not do anything in itself |
| 14:14.20 | StyXman_ | yeah, it's mostly a kernel<->userspace API |
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| 14:24.11 | zeq | freemangordon: not seeing any rotation problems with fennec unmodified from git |
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| 14:25.58 | zeq | Except for touch response and double-tap zoom not working very well. It feels like it grabs the page too easily. |
| 14:26.52 | jonwil | Is there any actual forward movement on the idea to update microb-engine to something newer? Or is all the focus on fennec? |
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| 14:30.19 | kerio | jonwil: browserd is used everywhere in fremantle |
| 14:30.21 | zeq | jonwil: I'm tempted to try porting the microb-engine patchset to upstream mozilla |
| 14:30.32 | kerio | where "everywhere" means "in Conversations" |
| 14:30.38 | jonwil | and in "maps" |
| 14:31.04 | zeq | it's just I'm not sure if it's doable, and it would be a lot of work to find out. |
| 14:31.31 | kerio | oh right, Maps too |
| 14:31.58 | zeq | may end up with worse performance or breakage in various apps |
| 14:32.18 | kerio | well, screw Maps |
| 14:32.38 | jonwil | I think the answer would be to keep the existing browser bits for conversations and maps but find a way to replace the browser in the rest of the system (e.g. bits that launch the browser via desktop URLs or the Google search widget) with Fennec or something similar |
| 14:32.53 | kerio | oh god, ram |
| 14:33.12 | kerio | most definetely we need a Conversations replacement |
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| 14:34.18 | jonwil | If telepathy (and telepathy-ring and the Maemo telepathy bits) wasnt such a mess, I might have gotten further with my "find out what stuff Conversations does so a replacement can be written" work |
| 14:34.51 | kerio | haha |
| 14:34.59 | kerio | wtf is telepathy-ring? |
| 14:35.43 | jonwil | its the closed source module that handles calls and SMS and sits between rtcom-call-ui/rtcom-messaging-ui and the cellular services daemon |
| 14:35.58 | kerio | ...it goes through telepathy? |
| 14:36.01 | kerio | WHY? |
| 14:36.04 | kerio | D: |
| 14:36.54 | jonwil | yes SMS and calls do go through telepathy |
| 14:37.00 | jonwil | as do Skype and SIP calls |
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| 14:37.20 | StyXman_ | Macer: http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&ts=1343357999000&iid=a6fb32beebebf8e85b0c986b09a4e69d |
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| 14:39.50 | kerio | hm, why is vm.swappiness 100, by default? |
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| 14:51.04 | zeq | jonwil: browser-switchboard lets you change the default browser |
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| 15:03.34 | vi__ | kerio: because it is. |
| 15:03.38 | vi__ | DEAL WITH IT. |
| 15:05.54 | vi__ | I run swappiness at 96. |
| 15:05.57 | vi__ | Does that make you mad? |
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| 15:13.43 | vi__ | freemangordon: ping |
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| 15:16.29 | vi__ | merlin1991: ping |
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| 15:17.28 | vi__ | MohammadAG: ping |
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| 15:18.21 | chem|st | kerio: cause you do not have 1GB ram! |
| 15:18.52 | vi__ | chem|st: Do you know what this '203' repository is? |
| 15:19.01 | MohammadAG | vi__: Pong |
| 15:19.16 | vi__ | MohammadAG: hello |
| 15:19.22 | MohammadAG | Heya |
| 15:19.23 | chem|st | 203? |
| 15:19.29 | vi__ | fremantle ssu 203 |
| 15:19.38 | chem|st | no idea |
| 15:19.40 | vi__ | what is this repo, is it connected to cssu? |
| 15:20.07 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I think I've found out why glibc was compiled for kernel-2.6.0. Scratchbox/qemu doesn't seem to support pselect/ppoll. |
| 15:20.15 | MohammadAG | Nope |
| 15:20.25 | MohammadAG | It's UK ssu repo |
| 15:20.40 | chem|st | vi__: yeah ssu is nokia... |
| 15:20.53 | chem|st | https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/205 for example |
| 15:21.07 | vi__ | there is a bunch of updates in there I have been ignoring. Should I install them? They have names like microb-engine-settings-203. |
| 15:21.13 | vi__ | Everything ends in 203. |
| 15:21.52 | MohammadAG | if you have EU software then you use that repo |
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| 15:21.57 | chem|st | uh I never updated from those after installing cssu, it scared me off! |
| 15:21.59 | MohammadAG | Or US, I'm not really sure |
| 15:22.02 | zeq1 | does anybody use SB2/SDK+? |
| 15:22.14 | MohammadAG | Anyway, those are translation packages |
| 15:22.42 | vi__ | well fuck that repo then. |
| 15:23.30 | vi__ | Can anyone tell me how to disable the thumb repo? |
| 15:24.05 | vi__ | I accidentally updated a bunch of QT packages and now openmediaplayer segfaults when I try to open an internet radio stream. |
| 15:24.25 | chem|st | you better reflash |
| 15:24.32 | vi__ | no way! |
| 15:24.36 | vi__ | user |
| 15:24.46 | vi__ | e5a3f |
| 15:25.09 | chem|st | deactivate the repo and reinstall things not working from other |
| 15:25.21 | vi__ | That is ehat IO intend to do. |
| 15:25.37 | chem|st | why are you asking then? |
| 15:25.41 | vi__ | Does fremantle use /etc/apt/sources.list like a normal debian? |
| 15:26.06 | vi__ | chem|st: I always try to second guess my own noobery. |
| 15:27.21 | vi__ | why will modest not die when I kill the process? |
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| 15:28.34 | FIQ | (17:25:43) (vi__) Does fremantle use /etc/apt/sources.list like a normal debian? |
| 15:28.41 | FIQ | no |
| 15:29.00 | FIQ | well, "normal" apt might, but HAM use something else |
| 15:29.37 | jonwil | everything goes through /etc/apt/sources.list.d AFAIK |
| 15:30.08 | kerio | HAM sets his own repos in a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d |
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| 15:38.42 | vi__ | Reinstallation of libqt4-maemo5 is not possible, it cannot be downloaded |
| 15:38.45 | vi__ | dafuq |
| 15:39.39 | freemangordon | vi__: thanks to merlin1991's repo, which holds only the latest version ;) |
| 15:40.08 | freemangordon | vi__: why libqt4-maemo5 is missing? |
| 15:40.22 | vi__ | It is not. |
| 15:40.39 | freemangordon | what then? |
| 15:40.40 | vi__ | I accidentally updated a bunch of qt4 packages from thumb repo, |
| 15:40.50 | freemangordon | thumb4? |
| 15:40.51 | vi__ | now OMP is broken and sefaults. |
| 15:41.18 | freemangordon | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1242643&postcount=453 |
| 15:41.20 | freemangordon | :P |
| 15:41.49 | vi__ | So I have disabled merlins repo and am trying to install reinstall libqt4 packages |
| 15:42.00 | freemangordon | hmm, works like charm here |
| 15:42.01 | vi__ | Except it says they cannot be downloaded. |
| 15:42.27 | vi__ | freemangordon: So you are running the latest from merlins repo and OMP still works? |
| 15:42.37 | freemangordon | yep |
| 15:42.51 | freemangordon | merlin1991's thumb repo |
| 15:42.59 | freemangordon | I am planning an update later |
| 15:43.15 | zeq1 | vi__: did you upgrade all the libqt4 pkgs? |
| 15:43.19 | freemangordon | vi__: which libstdc++ version you have installed? |
| 15:43.40 | vi__ | freemangordon: And what happens if you try to launch an internet radio statio from your list of radio stations. No crash? |
| 15:43.49 | zeq1 | freemangordon: it should have a hard dep on the right libstdc++ |
| 15:43.51 | freemangordon | lemme check |
| 15:44.06 | freemangordon | zeq1: it has |
| 15:44.18 | zeq1 | crashed? or a hard dep? ;) |
| 15:44.18 | vi__ | zeq1: ldconfig -v | grep libst libstdc++.so.6 -> libstdc++.so.6.0.16 |
| 15:44.24 | freemangordon | hard dep |
| 15:44.29 | zeq1 | ok :) |
| 15:44.45 | freemangordon | vi__: dpkg -l | grep libstdc++ ? |
| 15:45.12 | vi__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:45.21 | freemangordon | zeq1: see ^^^ |
| 15:45.35 | vi__ | I have ballsed up ahv'nt I... |
| 15:45.42 | zeq1 | or I have ;) |
| 15:45.54 | freemangordon | zeq1: no, that's the old one |
| 15:46.10 | freemangordon | it should be 4.7.2-cssu0 |
| 15:46.20 | freemangordon | vi__: enable thumb repo |
| 15:46.25 | freemangordon | do apt-get upgrade |
| 15:46.29 | freemangordon | oops |
| 15:46.34 | freemangordon | apt-get update |
| 15:46.47 | vi__ | already on it. |
| 15:46.54 | freemangordon | and tell me which packages apt-get upgrade wants to install |
| 15:47.04 | freemangordon | install/upgrade |
| 15:47.22 | vi__ | apt-get upgrade |
| 15:47.35 | vi__ | ffs wrong xterm |
| 15:47.37 | freemangordon | zeq1: somehow vi__ managed to install qt-thumb4 without puling the dependencies |
| 15:47.50 | vi__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:47.58 | zeq1 | that shouldn't be possible |
| 15:48.05 | zeq1 | unless he used dpkg -i |
| 15:48.05 | freemangordon | see ^^^ |
| 15:48.16 | zeq1 | oh I see |
| 15:48.23 | freemangordon | vi__: how did you manage to do that? |
| 15:48.24 | vi__ | zeq1: a lot of people say that top me. |
| 15:48.33 | vi__ | freemangordon: I literally have no idea. |
| 15:48.38 | freemangordon | :D |
| 15:48.56 | freemangordon | vi__: libsdl-mixer1.2? |
| 15:49.00 | zeq1 | well libstdc++6 is in the upgrade list at least |
| 15:49.04 | freemangordon | do you have extras-devel enabled? |
| 15:49.12 | vi__ | freemangordon: ...yes. |
| 15:49.13 | zeq1 | what are the deps on libqt4-* |
| 15:49.15 | freemangordon | or extras-testing? |
| 15:49.20 | vi__ | ...yes |
| 15:49.27 | freemangordon | aaah, disable that shit |
| 15:50.12 | freemangordon | thatnks to marmitz or whatever was the guy's name we have libstdc++ ang libgcc1 4.6.1 in extras-devel |
| 15:50.13 | vi__ | espeak-extra-data libgcc1 libqt4-core libqt4-dbus libqt4-declarative libqt4-gui libqt4-maemo5 libqt4-multimedia libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libqt4-phonon libqt4-script libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-sqlite libqt4-svg libqt4-test libqt4-translations libqt4-webkit libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns libstdc++6 |
| 15:50.40 | vi__ | So devel can actually braek your device now. |
| 15:50.43 | vi__ | Finally. |
| 15:51.02 | freemangordon | could you do apt-get install libstdc++ and tell me which version it wants to install? |
| 15:51.36 | freemangordon | it should pull libgcc1 as well |
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| 15:51.47 | freemangordon | vi__: ^^^ |
| 15:52.08 | zeq1 | what epoch are the libgcc and libstdc++ in devel? |
| 15:52.18 | freemangordon | zeq1: NFC |
| 15:52.25 | zeq1 | that could be the problem? |
| 15:52.29 | vi__ | It does not tell me the version, however it is the version from merlins repo as it complains it is not authenticated, |
| 15:52.50 | freemangordon | well, you may boldly do apt-get upgrade |
| 15:52.56 | zeq1 | vi__: I suspect the problem is we made sure we stuck to the versioning convention for fremantle |
| 15:53.11 | zeq1 | it's possible what's in -devel has a higher epoch |
| 15:53.20 | freemangordon | vi__: just tell me how much disk space will be freed |
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| 15:53.46 | guly | twitter-sharing-multi anyone? |
| 15:53.48 | vi__ | Need to get 481kB of archives. After this operation, 1114kB of additional disk space will be used. |
| 15:53.49 | freemangordon | zeq1: you check in repo |
| 15:54.36 | freemangordon | s/check/could check/ |
| 15:54.43 | vi__ | well it has not exploded in fire yet. |
| 15:54.52 | zeq1 | freemangordon: I would but I need to go do some shopping before my girlfriend gets home! |
| 15:55.00 | freemangordon | :) |
| 15:55.09 | freemangordon | vi__: reboot? |
| 15:55.12 | vi__ | s/shopping/pr0n/ |
| 15:55.23 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 15:55.28 | zeq1 | hehe |
| 15:55.59 | vi__ | rebooting |
| 15:56.01 | freemangordon | vi__: did you reboot the device? |
| 15:56.02 | freemangordon | ok |
| 15:56.42 | freemangordon | is there a handshake? :P |
| 15:56.59 | vi__ | freemangordon: I removed that video thing a LONG time ago. |
| 15:57.12 | vi__ | boots fine... |
| 15:57.24 | freemangordon | but why, it is so cute :D |
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| 15:57.54 | vi__ | I much prefer a faster boot up time. |
| 15:58.37 | vi__ | I literally owe you a pizza. |
| 15:58.57 | freemangordon | hmm, those 1MB of extra data could come from espeak-extra-data |
| 15:59.20 | freemangordon | 1114kB of additional disk space that is |
| 15:59.26 | vi__ | It is F* annoying that the person who packaged espeak made it depend on espeak extra. |
| 15:59.44 | vi__ | I do not need russian AND chinese, |
| 15:59.56 | freemangordon | vi__: you owe me hookers and boze a long time ago :P |
| 16:00.21 | freemangordon | s/boze/booze/ |
| 16:00.59 | freemangordon | vi__: how is the memory usage? |
| 16:01.10 | freemangordon | any changes? |
| 16:01.46 | vi__ | 1 sec |
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| 16:03.44 | vi__ | hard to tell |
| 16:04.12 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 16:04.19 | vi__ | usr/sbin/browserd -s 1870 -n RTComMessagingServer |
| 16:04.31 | vi__ | Is still hogging it like a fat schoolchild. |
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| 16:05.00 | freemangordon | I will appreciate if someone find a way to measure how much RAM we actually gain from thumb thingie |
| 16:05.38 | kerio | freemangordon: hm, how can you wreck your device by using -devel's libgcc? |
| 16:06.12 | freemangordon | qt in -thumb needs 4.7.2, extras-devel has 4.6.1 |
| 16:06.13 | vi__ | freemangordon: It is hard to quantify. |
| 16:06.24 | *** join/#maemo madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu) |
| 16:06.29 | freemangordon | vi__: if possible at all |
| 16:06.48 | kerio | i see |
| 16:06.59 | kerio | freemangordon: and why doesn't qt in -thumb depend on >=4.7.2? >:) |
| 16:07.05 | freemangordon | it depends |
| 16:07.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | it depends if it depends if it depends or not |
| 16:08.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-p |
| 16:08.34 | RiD | wha |
| 16:08.39 | freemangordon | Package: libqt4-core |
| 16:08.45 | freemangordon | Depends: libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.7.2), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.14.6-1osso1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.7.2), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1), kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround [armel] |
| 16:09.01 | kerio | then how can you install the new libqt4-core without having libgcc1 4.7.2? |
| 16:09.30 | freemangordon | vi__ is a *nix guru and managed to do it without knowing how :P |
| 16:10.33 | vi__ | freemangordon: my mother used to say I could brake a blacksmiths anvil. |
| 16:10.54 | kerio | well, how fast would the anvil be going? |
| 16:10.54 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 16:11.21 | freemangordon | anyway, I am back to re-compiling microb-engine |
| 16:11.35 | kerio | yay |
| 16:11.49 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: do we have a list of microb-engine CVEs |
| 16:11.50 | freemangordon | ? |
| 16:13.24 | freemangordon | nevermind, i found them |
| 16:14.43 | RiD | so you're working on thumb microb? |
| 16:15.06 | freemangordon | working? it is in thumb repo already |
| 16:15.24 | freemangordon | but we have open bugs against CSSU |
| 16:15.43 | freemangordon | going to fix them (the bugs are along with the fixes) |
| 16:22.26 | kerio | no TLS makes me a sad panda :c |
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| 17:43.18 | LeshaShtamp | åñòü êòî? there is someone ? |
| 17:43.57 | beford | ñò |
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| 18:06.09 | saidinesh5 | hey fellows |
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| 18:06.19 | saidinesh5 | i was wondering if anyone could suggest me a good app name for a port of elFinder.org to N9 |
| 18:06.30 | saidinesh5 | (and N900 eventually, when i get it fixed) |
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| 18:11.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: NFC |
| 18:11.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | even |
| 18:12.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~wtf cve |
| 18:12.59 | freemangordon | security vulnerabilities and exposures. |
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| 18:13.24 | teotwaki | how the fuck do you go from Cve to Security?! |
| 18:13.32 | freemangordon | s/security/common/ |
| 18:13.43 | teotwaki | exploits? |
| 18:13.55 | freemangordon | segfaults :) |
| 18:14.15 | freemangordon | buffer overruns, stack overflows, etc, etc |
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| 18:22.10 | beford | cwe |
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| 18:29.29 | Raimu | freemangordon: The stuff I updated last night seem to work well. |
| 18:31.29 | freemangordon | good |
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| 18:34.44 | freemangordon | Woody14619: ping |
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| 18:41.41 | Estel_ | freemangordon, neither Councilor is usually available on IRc now, so you may be better sending them mail to council@maemo.org |
| 18:41.58 | Woody14619 | speak for yourself Estel_ |
| 18:42.05 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 18:42.13 | Estel_ | ouh, sorry - It was based on experiences from past week :) |
| 18:42.21 | Estel_ | no malicious intentions, so hold Your horses. |
| 18:42.24 | Woody14619 | But yes, generally sending to council@maemo.org is as expedient. |
| 18:42.55 | Woody14619 | Especially on weekends, as I'm not here then. What's up freemangordon? |
| 18:44.15 | RiDv2 | hey, is it possible to screw up usb hostmode hardware wise? |
| 18:45.17 | Estel_ | sure, jsut torn apart Your usb port. although, you probably have something else in mind? |
| 18:45.24 | RiDv2 | like it would still work while charging or transfering data on pc |
| 18:45.39 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer is the man to ask, I would answer "no" |
| 18:46.13 | RiDv2 | ok. it's what I also think (you either screw it all or don't), but i'll wait DocScrutinizer 's opinion |
| 18:46.22 | Estel_ | sounds sane |
| 18:46.43 | RiDv2 | mostly i think i fudged up something on the usb to usb thingie that i ripped from an old motherboard |
| 18:47.08 | RiDv2 | but i don't have another to try so that's why i'm wondering |
| 18:48.47 | RiD | didn't realize I had mirc open on PC |
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| 19:28.51 | user___ | Estel_: ping |
| 19:31.17 | Estel_ | pong |
| 19:31.20 | Estel_ | vi_, |
| 19:31.30 | vi_ | yo estel. |
| 19:31.51 | vi_ | or should I say: |
| 19:31.54 | vi_ | cze! |
| 19:32.02 | Estel_ | no, you definitelly shouldn't ;p |
| 19:32.23 | vi_ | jestem kapusta!? |
| 19:32.24 | Estel_ | what's up? |
| 19:32.31 | vi_ | to jest booragh? |
| 19:32.40 | Estel_ | whatever you mean;) |
| 19:32.42 | vi_ | i give up |
| 19:32.51 | vi_ | how do I change the name on the prompt for ED? |
| 19:32.58 | vi_ | it says m5estel. |
| 19:33.04 | Estel_ | prompt? title of xterm status bar? |
| 19:33.15 | vi_ | I have changed the host.conf but it does not work. |
| 19:33.17 | Estel_ | dafuq? |
| 19:33.23 | vi_ | command prompt. |
| 19:33.30 | vi_ | /bin/sh |
| 19:33.34 | Estel_ | 0_o |
| 19:33.45 | japh | what does ed has to do with hosts.conf |
| 19:34.05 | Estel_ | vi_, no idea, I don't have anything like that. I(f everyone have it, qole must have set it |
| 19:34.23 | Estel_ | if no, it is your subconscious skill again |
| 19:34.44 | vi_ | I like my prompt to be: |
| 19:34.47 | vi_ | export PS1='\[\e[1;34m\]\w\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;32m\]\$\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;37m\]' |
| 19:35.12 | vi_ | however ED does not read my .profile or bashrc |
| 19:35.24 | vi_ | instead it shows: |
| 19:35.57 | vi_ | [\u@m5estel: \w] |
| 19:36.14 | vi_ | and I cannot figure out why this is set this way. |
| 19:36.33 | vi_ | I assumed as it was your name, you put it there. |
| 19:36.43 | vi_ | Do you understand what I mean? |
| 19:36.44 | japh | there's no host in your PS1 at all |
| 19:36.51 | japh | and that's set in /etc/profile* something |
| 19:37.01 | vi_ | japh: I know. |
| 19:37.22 | vi_ | I do not want host name in my PS1. |
| 19:37.39 | japh | aha |
| 19:38.29 | japh | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.13 | vi_ | japh: /etc/profile |
| 19:39.24 | vi_ | I did not even know this existed! |
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| 19:40.03 | vi_ | I will edit it to run the .profile of whomever summoned the chroot. |
| 19:40.14 | japh | vi_, yes I was equally frustrated because there's a ton of shit.profile files in /etc/ |
| 19:40.21 | japh | and all of them were linked together in a total mess |
| 19:41.10 | vi_ | japh: in harmattan it is even worse. |
| 19:41.53 | japh | it was easier for me to figure out there at least |
| 19:42.05 | japh | but maybe that was because at least I got bash4 |
| 19:42.28 | vi_ | ash! |
| 19:42.30 | vi_ | w00t |
| 19:44.22 | japh | but I have broken my n950 again |
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| 19:44.32 | japh | I think it's fifth time this month |
| 19:44.34 | japh | yaaaaaawn |
| 19:45.05 | japh | don't remember exactly what I did last night |
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| 19:49.15 | vi_ | japh: have you get easy debian running on your n950? |
| 19:49.24 | japh | no |
| 19:49.28 | japh | have anyone? |
| 19:49.40 | vi_ | I think qole did |
| 19:50.00 | vi_ | how come .profile will not run like a script? |
| 19:50.31 | japh | hm? |
| 19:50.48 | japh | assumingly it starts with a check to see if your shell is interactive |
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| 19:54.07 | vi_ | well it seems it does NOT run /etc/profile |
| 19:54.09 | vi_ | FFS |
| 19:57.26 | vi_ | WTF is with women wanting to watch totally fucking gay movies? |
| 19:57.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: define "screw up hostmode" |
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| 19:59.39 | freemangordon | zeq: what will happen if I don;t add optimize flags to LD_FLAGS when using LTO? |
| 20:18.05 | Estel_ | vi_, as for ed in harmattan, it works, but with capacitive screen, it sucks big time |
| 20:18.10 | Estel_ | i.e. You canb't do anything with it |
| 20:18.24 | Estel_ | I have no idea, maybe there is some mouse mode, so You could use it with mouse and keyboard |
| 20:18.33 | Estel_ | ~rape inventer of capacitive screens |
| 20:19.17 | Estel_ | no, seriously, what's the sue for multitouch, if I need to scroll 4x times to get desired effect |
| 20:19.21 | Estel_ | or push button 7 times |
| 20:19.44 | Estel_ | of course there are idiots, who claim "n950/N9 screen is much more sensitive and precise than N900's one", oh well |
| 20:20.11 | japh | my fingers surely are incompatible with it |
| 20:20.29 | Estel_ | of course some smartie decided, that area less than 15 mm detected must be error, so it's ignored - Coating Your stylus in conductive layer doesn't help |
| 20:20.35 | Estel_ | unless it's tip is 15 mm in diameter |
| 20:20.57 | Estel_ | so You're totally screwed, when need precision, instead of clicking iphone-sized buttons |
| 20:21.15 | Estel_ | really, capacitive screen is even more WTF than lack of microSD |
| 20:21.34 | Estel_ | even for games, where multitouch sounds essential, it sucks big time |
| 20:21.58 | japh | is multitouch that I'm supposed to use even more fingers? |
| 20:22.04 | japh | please don't give me that |
| 20:22.12 | Estel_ | can't tell how many times, when playing gof2, pressing on "rocket/bomb" button wasn't registered |
| 20:22.26 | Estel_ | well, it's why You must do idiotic "pitch to zoom" gesture |
| 20:22.35 | Estel_ | instead of being able to zoom in/our browser via volume buttons |
| 20:22.59 | Estel_ | s/in/our/in/out/ |
| 20:23.07 | Estel_ | whatever |
| 20:23.08 | japh | handling the fennec ui is a bitch with my fingers |
| 20:23.17 | Estel_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:23.18 | *** join/#maemo brzys_ (~brzys@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 20:23.24 | Estel_ | not only Yours |
| 20:23.26 | japh | maybe I should fetch a stylus if there's something that works |
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| 20:23.41 | Estel_ | handling anything except iphone brainless buttons is bitchy with capacitive |
| 20:23.59 | Estel_ | japh, You can DIY capacitive stylus, but, experience is rather miserable |
| 20:24.07 | RST38h | this only means you have to surgically modify your fingers |
| 20:24.14 | japh | I haven't used anything else I think, the one I got prior to n900 was the one that was bundled with 3310 |
| 20:24.15 | Estel_ | it have to be close in size to Your fingers, anyway |(at least it's tip) |
| 20:24.26 | japh | hms |
| 20:24.42 | Estel_ | precise capacitive screen is a oxy-moron |
| 20:24.50 | Estel_ | also called O2moron |
| 20:25.06 | Estel_ | or moron oxidization |
| 20:25.25 | RiD | DocScrutinizer My N900 is not detecting any pens, mouse or keyboards that it was previously detecting using h-e-n. Didn't change a thing. It's either something screwed up on the N900 (but it still works when charging and when transferring data from and to the computer) or something related with the USB "thing" |
| 20:25.34 | Estel_ | I admire N950's TFT being much less power hungry - twice less than N900's - but digitizer is... |
| 20:25.51 | japh | one I get ratpoison working on n950 as well this problem will be no more |
| 20:25.52 | Estel_ | RiD, dmesg output when tryijng to connect things via hen? |
| 20:25.54 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~brzys@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 20:26.04 | Estel_ | in hen, you can activate iot via "kernel messages" |
| 20:26.09 | *** join/#maemo kimitake (~kimitake@75.0.189.29) |
| 20:26.15 | Estel_ | ratpoison? what it is? |
| 20:26.19 | Estel_ | is it* |
| 20:26.21 | japh | a wm |
| 20:26.27 | Estel_ | yyy? |
| 20:26.45 | japh | http://i.japh.se/n900/n900-rp.png |
| 20:26.49 | japh | can you see that pic? |
| 20:27.06 | Estel_ | sure. wtf is that? |
| 20:27.08 | RiD | ehh Estel_, which part is the most recent? |
| 20:27.11 | RiD | The top or bottom? |
| 20:27.16 | Estel_ | one at bottom |
| 20:27.17 | Estel_ | but |
| 20:27.21 | Estel_ | it's not real-time updated |
| 20:27.22 | japh | that is ratpoison |
| 20:27.26 | Estel_ | it's snapshot of moment when you activate it |
| 20:27.43 | Estel_ | japh, nice, but I still don't know what the fuck? |
| 20:28.18 | Estel_ | border-less windows, or what? |
| 20:28.21 | japh | estel_, I basicly just want to get as much screen space as possible for my vims |
| 20:28.30 | Estel_ | I see |
| 20:28.35 | RiD | ok |
| 20:28.40 | Estel_ | but how it is related to capacitive hell? |
| 20:28.41 | japh | and I don't want to use my fingers because it's driving me mad |
| 20:28.45 | Estel_ | ah |
| 20:28.48 | japh | because you don't have to use it |
| 20:28.56 | RiD | so uhh |
| 20:28.58 | Estel_ | one solution, would be to program using N950's screen as notebook touchpad |
| 20:29.03 | Estel_ | You know the idea |
| 20:29.15 | japh | hehe |
| 20:29.25 | Estel_ | it would be quite useful lfo real things like easy debian |
| 20:30.23 | RiD | err, there are many messages saying device not accepting address 40, error -19 |
| 20:30.30 | japh | well I do hope there'll be better alternatives at some point in the future |
| 20:30.43 | japh | for installing 'real' os's I mean |
| 20:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: I dunno >the USB "thing" < |
| 20:31.06 | RiD | DocScrutinizer it's like A male to A Male usb cable |
| 20:31.12 | Estel_ | RiD, Your device is just not enumerated probperly |
| 20:31.13 | RiD | but it's from a motherboard, so it has no cable between at all |
| 20:31.18 | Estel_ | follow HEN instructions, *slowly* |
| 20:31.23 | *** join/#maemo kodomo (~gregor@g225091045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:31.25 | Estel_ | i.e. 2-3 seconds between every step |
| 20:31.33 | Estel_ | btw, full-speed may work better for you |
| 20:31.36 | japh | you have to bruteforce |
| 20:31.37 | Estel_ | than high speed |
| 20:31.37 | japh | don't give up |
| 20:32.21 | Estel_ | unfortunately, high speeds seems to fail for hubs, until you have some high-speed device connected to it,. before enumerating |
| 20:32.26 | Estel_ | i.e. put pendrive inside hub |
| 20:32.30 | Estel_ | before enumerating |
| 20:32.46 | Estel_ | I have one such hubb- it's perfectly working 2.0 one, but without something 2.0 attached to it, i must enumerate it as full-spoeed in hen |
| 20:32.53 | Estel_ | no big deal, when You want to connect mouse and keyboard |
| 20:32.55 | RiD | hm |
| 20:32.59 | RiD | on full speed it detected the pen |
| 20:33.03 | Estel_ | BTw, DocScrutinizer will ask "wtf" for sure |
| 20:33.06 | Estel_ | I have no idea, too |
| 20:33.12 | Estel_ | it may be hub-related |
| 20:33.18 | RiD | DataTraveler G2, manufacturer Kingston and and the serial number, etc |
| 20:33.27 | Estel_ | yea |
| 20:33.30 | Estel_ | try on high speed |
| 20:33.32 | RiD | but it's refusing to mount :< |
| 20:33.32 | Estel_ | now |
| 20:33.36 | RiD | Ok |
| 20:33.36 | Estel_ | it isn't |
| 20:33.44 | RiD | I don't know what, it used to be pretty straightforward |
| 20:33.47 | Estel_ | with latest cssu testing and kernel-power you don't mount manually |
| 20:33.50 | Estel_ | ke-recv does it for you |
| 20:33.58 | Estel_ | mount button in hen is obsolete |
| 20:33.59 | RiD | oh |
| 20:34.09 | Estel_ | maybe even in cssu-stable, I don't know, I use testing (and soon thumb) only |
| 20:34.30 | RiD | i'm using testing too |
| 20:34.30 | Estel_ | with cssu-testing your pendrive is mounted already, if it enumerated properly |
| 20:34.46 | RiD | i'm trying now on high speed |
| 20:34.57 | Estel_ | rep[ort back, but I got feeling it will fail :P |
| 20:35.14 | RiD | not possible to connect, no file system available. That's the generic error pop up |
| 20:35.15 | Estel_ | high-speed is somehow unfinished on HEN *warniong, personal unjustified by hard-proofs opinion* |
| 20:35.17 | RiD | (in portuguese tho) |
| 20:35.25 | Estel_ | I doubt I don't have skills to debug it properly |
| 20:35.51 | Estel_ | but in my almost-every-day usage practice, it's working much less reliably than full;-speed, and I ensured peripherials (adaptor, cables) quality |
| 20:36.00 | Estel_ | I'm 1005 sure that they're not limiting factor for hostmode |
| 20:36.02 | RiD | I doubt I Don't have skills |
| 20:36.08 | RiD | isn't that saying that you DO have skills? |
| 20:36.15 | Estel_ | it's just that high-speed sometimes refuses to work, no matter what, while 5 minutes later it may work |
| 20:36.33 | Estel_ | well, I tried, but haven't found anything interesting in syslog |
| 20:36.38 | RiD | well, keyboard used to connect with no problems then on one day it stopped connecting. And never again |
| 20:36.48 | Estel_ | it's just like "I want to work today" or "I don't want today, I got headache" |
| 20:36.54 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@80-186-27-51.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 20:37.00 | Estel_ | sounds familiar, somehow |
| 20:37.24 | Estel_ | I'm sure You can make it connect again by trying on different speeds |
| 20:37.33 | Estel_ | BTW, remember - keyboards, mouses - low speed, or full-speed, at most |
| 20:37.45 | Estel_ | don't use high speed when not needed, if not for power-save purposes |
| 20:37.45 | RiD | it's refusing to |
| 20:37.48 | RiD | cries like a little girl |
| 20:38.05 | Estel_ | either it's broken, but if it works with desktop it's not |
| 20:38.18 | Estel_ | from my experience, it will, You just need to slow a little between steps |
| 20:38.28 | Estel_ | also, are Yuo sure it is not enumerated? |
| 20:38.52 | Estel_ | if it's enumerated, and still doesn't work, it's not hostmode problem, rather something screwed with Your instalation of extkbd |
| 20:39.29 | Estel_ | still, I love hostmode on N900, despite ocassional problems |
| 20:39.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | h-e-n highspeed is kinda flaky. USB highspeed is a botch |
| 20:39.54 | Estel_ | for example, every time I demonstrate someone that my N900 is true computer, via connecting it to big screen, then to USB huband keyboard/mouse... |
| 20:39.58 | RiD | now it doesn't detect the pen at all |
| 20:39.59 | RiD | lol |
| 20:40.04 | Estel_ | I need to do it few times, cause first one fails for some twisted reasons :p |
| 20:40.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | it enumerates in pseudo ful spped mode, then sends chirps and whatnot, to establish highspeed |
| 20:40.25 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, hm |
| 20:40.42 | Estel_ | so my "from practice" unjustified experiences, that high-speed is much more problematic, may be justified after all? |
| 20:40.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 20:41.05 | Estel_ | BTw, i'm not depreciating it, It works for me fine, all after all, just give strange problems sometimes |
| 20:41.16 | Estel_ | I'm still blessing everyone involved in bringing it for us |
| 20:41.18 | vi_ | japh: dwn2>ratpoison |
| 20:41.30 | vi_ | ^dwm2 |
| 20:41.35 | RiD | well i'll charge the phone. No success today. Let's hope tomorrow my N900 will be in a better mood |
| 20:41.42 | Estel_ | hehe |
| 20:41.57 | Estel_ | Maybe You should get a girlfriend, N900 may become jealous |
| 20:42.30 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: once you have an established high speed connection, though, it's fine, right? |
| 20:42.45 | RiD | Estel_ the problem is that my N900 IS my only girlfriend |
| 20:42.46 | Estel_ | kerio, from practice, most of the time if it works, it works rox solid |
| 20:42.50 | RiD | and even she complains. Sigh |
| 20:42.55 | Estel_ | RiD, exactly. Get her a competition |
| 20:43.06 | RiD | Must be the blown up speaker. |
| 20:43.15 | Estel_ | how You managed to do that? |
| 20:43.16 | RiD | That's why she refuses to work, I muted her |
| 20:43.18 | RiD | *whahahah* |
| 20:43.21 | vi_ | how to stop squirals stealing the nuts from my bird feeder?? |
| 20:43.31 | Estel_ | vi_, buy a cat |
| 20:43.41 | Estel_ | it will fix both squirals and birds problems |
| 20:43.43 | RiD | this is not a pet channel lol |
| 20:43.43 | Estel_ | at once |
| 20:44.10 | vi_ | how to de-gause my snake? |
| 20:44.21 | RiD | Estel_ well, to start with, the earpiece got fudged after one year. Nope, did nothing harsh to her. Infact, it was in very good condition apart from the slightly weared out keyboard (nails, fu) |
| 20:44.24 | kerio | RiD: you could try kp51 and usbmode |
| 20:44.26 | Estel_ | combine it with garden snake |
| 20:44.30 | *** join/#maemo chenca (chenca@nat/indt/x-qnngdrbiozvklrrt) |
| 20:44.51 | Estel_ | kerio, wtf? |
| 20:45.06 | kerio | re:usb |
| 20:45.19 | RiD | Estel_ and the speaker (right one), well that was when I took a look at android. |
| 20:45.19 | vi_ | no, the snake. |
| 20:45.25 | Estel_ | and what do you think he is doing? |
| 20:45.29 | Estel_ | hostmode without kp? |
| 20:45.37 | Estel_ | ough |
| 20:45.41 | vi_ | he just hides under his rock mostly. |
| 20:45.42 | Estel_ | RiD, you know reason |
| 20:45.44 | RiD | Was trying some applications, started media player and after some time i noticed speakers had better sound |
| 20:45.48 | RiD | little bit after it died |
| 20:46.04 | freemangordon | what kerio is saying is to use the new SW from Pali instead of HEN |
| 20:46.17 | freemangordon | kerio: agree? |
| 20:46.23 | kerio | mango |
| 20:46.29 | Estel_ | RiD, when I started, I planned to test nitdroid to. Then, during usage and while doing more important things ojn N900, i noticed that I don't need to |
| 20:46.37 | Estel_ | as android doesn't have anything of interest for me ;) |
| 20:46.48 | Estel_ | i.e. nothing I couldn't do on n900, and do it better |
| 20:46.56 | RiD | I wanted to try some applications, nothing outstanding |
| 20:47.00 | RiD | Didn't come out that well uh |
| 20:47.14 | RiD | Then i was stupid enough to arrive LATE with the warranty |
| 20:47.14 | Estel_ | well, maybe if I would want to play X-Plane helicopter, but it would be a) overkill b) it's laminar research fail an yway, the could release for webos too ;) |
| 20:47.25 | RiD | i thought it would end up in august. It ended in june |
| 20:47.31 | RiD | ._. |
| 20:47.38 | Estel_ | freemangordon, usb software? |
| 20:47.44 | Estel_ | I'm really out of loop still |
| 20:47.53 | RiD | Nokia can repair the speaker and earpiece for 20€~30€ . |
| 20:48.01 | Estel_ | RiD, why won't You replace speaker? they're cheap |
| 20:48.04 | kerio | Estel_: the latest kernel-power has a module for charging and usb hostmode |
| 20:48.18 | kerio | and there's a matching GUI |
| 20:48.18 | RiD | they are. Shipping isn't. And I never disassembled a phone |
| 20:48.19 | Estel_ | yea, io know about charging, hostmode one missed me |
| 20:48.20 | RiD | not intentionally |
| 20:48.27 | RiD | I would fudge |
| 20:48.36 | Estel_ | RiD, but with N900, it's a piece of cake |
| 20:48.39 | Estel_ | can You unscrew 6 screws? |
| 20:48.52 | RiD | Estel_ the speaker seems easy, the earpiece don't |
| 20:48.53 | Estel_ | and watch Youtube video?:P |
| 20:48.53 | RiD | doesn't* |
| 20:49.01 | Estel_ | earpiece as in screen part? |
| 20:49.02 | freemangordon | Estel_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658 |
| 20:49.04 | RiD | yes |
| 20:49.09 | RiD | the one used for calls |
| 20:49.19 | RiD | that one works but the sound is all distorted |
| 20:49.24 | Estel_ | little more complicated, yet doable for someone without experience, with enough care and watcyhing dissasembling video |
| 20:49.36 | RiD | it's like boosting a crappy mp3 volume software-wise |
| 20:49.40 | RiD | too much and it will sound like cra |
| 20:49.42 | Estel_ | thanks, freemangordon |
| 20:50.07 | RiD | With the required stuff for repairing it , I would spend around 15€ and then do it myself |
| 20:50.37 | vi_ | RiD: there are only 6 screws holding the n900 together. The speakers just sit in the case. no soldering required. |
| 20:50.54 | RiD | vi_ yes, i noticed the speakers are easy, from watching some videos on youtube. The earpiece isn't |
| 20:50.58 | RiD | I guess it would be better to ask someone at NOKIA don'tCARE to do it. If he screws up it's his own falt |
| 20:51.05 | vi_ | there was that guy who fitted some 5800 speakers in his n900. |
| 20:51.19 | Estel_ | vi_, no idea why, as 5800 speakers are, in fact, worse |
| 20:51.21 | vi_ | RiD: NO WAY. |
| 20:51.23 | Estel_ | it turned out :P |
| 20:51.42 | vi_ | RiD: nokia care guys are fucking spastic chimps. |
| 20:51.46 | Estel_ | BTW, who decided to put 1 mono speaker in N950? |
| 20:51.53 | RiD | spastic walrus, like you said |
| 20:51.54 | RiD | or someone else |
| 20:51.57 | vi_ | DO NOT LET THEM NEAR YOUR N900. |
| 20:52.00 | Estel_ | RiD, nokia care can recycle Your device without asking first |
| 20:52.13 | Estel_ | would You add your girlfriend to hospital, that havew contract with crematory? |
| 20:52.19 | RiD | It doesn't have warranty lol |
| 20:52.29 | Estel_ | still, someone may forget that :P |
| 20:52.41 | RiD | then they better give full refund |
| 20:52.44 | RiD | or someone's house will burn |
| 20:52.45 | vi_ | fuck nokia care. |
| 20:52.55 | vi_ | fucking retards. |
| 20:53.00 | Estel_ | freemangordon, lol, thanks godness, so we don't have to wait for Hen update from MohammadAG anymore? |
| 20:53.11 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 20:53.16 | Estel_ | hen gui, I mean |
| 20:53.17 | Estel_ | sounds neat |
| 20:53.29 | RiD | the speakers and earpiece aren't high priority anyways, so I'll have a lot of time to think about it |
| 20:53.34 | vi_ | it is so hard to explain to a so called tech support when you know more about the thing than them. |
| 20:53.39 | RiD | I hardly make calls with it |
| 20:53.51 | vi_ | you have to dumb down so as not to offend them. |
| 20:53.56 | kerio | why the hell would you recycle a n900 instead of selling it |
| 20:54.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: should, yes |
| 20:54.18 | vi_ | kerio: simple. send it to me. |
| 20:54.23 | kerio | hehe |
| 20:54.32 | RiD | by the way, if anyone has a spare n900 or one that doens't work or whatever |
| 20:54.45 | RiD | but it has a good condition english keyboard (LEGIT! not chinese ripoff), I could talk :D |
| 20:54.45 | vi_ | ...they can send it to me. |
| 20:54.50 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, Pali's hostmode detects speed automagically? 0_o? |
| 20:54.59 | kerio | Estel_: it does a bunch of tries |
| 20:55.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: nah |
| 20:55.06 | kerio | and it doesn't work for me unless i change the timing a bit |
| 20:55.06 | RiD | keyboard only. biggest mistake ever? buying a local n900. Piece of *bleep* layout |
| 20:55.19 | kerio | RiD: just remap the hell out of it |
| 20:55.25 | Estel_ | RiD, from time to time, I have good condition N900 with reinforced USB port (solder method) for 180 euro |
| 20:55.37 | vi_ | RiD: getting a real keyboard is hard. |
| 20:55.44 | Estel_ | vi_, in my country it's easy |
| 20:55.56 | RiD | Estel_ a real keyboard? |
| 20:56.01 | RiD | real as in the ultimate real thing? |
| 20:56.02 | Estel_ | for N900. you mean domesheet, or buttons layer? |
| 20:56.04 | vi_ | in poland everything is easier. |
| 20:56.06 | Estel_ | yea |
| 20:56.09 | Estel_ | vi_, lol ;p |
| 20:56.09 | RiD | buttons is all i need |
| 20:56.14 | RiD | (i guess?) |
| 20:56.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: it might do what I suggested to blueled as well |
| 20:56.17 | vi_ | hell, even your neds are better dressed. |
| 20:56.19 | Estel_ | RiD, how much willing to pay for real english keyboard? |
| 20:56.38 | RiD | have no idea actually |
| 20:56.49 | Estel_ | I may check if my shop close to home have something in that price range |
| 20:56.53 | RiD | tell me first what would be the cost to deliver to portugal? |
| 20:56.58 | Estel_ | what aprts you need, generally? |
| 20:56.58 | vi_ | rid they should cost no more than 10 GBP. |
| 20:57.07 | Estel_ | vi_, go away :P (joking) |
| 20:57.19 | vi_ | for keyboard and surround. |
| 20:57.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: which is: power up vbus, read out speed from level on D+ and D-, power down vbus to stop session, set controller to proper matching speed, power up vbus again |
| 20:57.32 | RiD | Estel_ I think the only thing i need are the buttons? |
| 20:57.36 | Estel_ | RiD, it depens on size of aprts require,d but should be overkill, still inside EU |
| 20:57.39 | RiD | my keyboard is working fine - just wearing out and not the best layout |
| 20:57.50 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, it seems it's doing it |
| 20:58.00 | Estel_ | which is good from one side, but bad on another, as it makes it longer |
| 20:58.03 | vi_ | RiD: go to your dodgiest nokia care centre. |
| 20:58.07 | Estel_ | when IU know my speed and don't want auto-test |
| 20:58.14 | vi_ | and talk to the owner. |
| 20:58.36 | vi_ | if you have a smart mouth you may be able to convince him to sell you one. |
| 20:58.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might fail miserably when it doesn't check for vbus going down properly. Big capacitors in attached peripheral can make vbus stick at 5V for quite some time |
| 20:59.14 | RiD | vi_ i'm 15 years old. I don't think he would be serious |
| 20:59.40 | vi_ | RiD|AFK: then u r fucked. |
| 20:59.53 | RiD|AFK | that's no big news |
| 21:00.12 | zeq1 | freemangordon: re. LDFLAGS when using LTO. You don't want to do that because the code will be unoptimized with extra sections with hints for the LTO stage. |
| 21:00.20 | vi_ | can you get a chinese knockoff KB? |
| 21:01.00 | Estel_ | freemangordon, I would like to upgrade to latest cssu-testing, but I'm little lost after reading thread. Currently what are "manual" things required (i.e. ones not related to repos), other than fixing microB for https? |
| 21:01.06 | Estel_ | for google, to be precise |
| 21:01.22 | Estel_ | I.e. is there any pending update to kp, that will make it even more integrated... |
| 21:01.34 | Estel_ | so it is sane to wait few days more for main device, or it just works? |
| 21:01.44 | Estel_ | normally I tets bleediong-edge things myself, but no i'm little late with reading |
| 21:01.45 | zeq1 | freemangordon: that only applies of course if the linking is done separately. If it's all done in one gcc instance it doesn't matter. |
| 21:01.52 | Estel_ | also, kernel-power-settings,. what';s the status of it? |
| 21:02.00 | Estel_ | i've seen kp15 in repos, but it was deleted by x-fade |
| 21:02.06 | Estel_ | no there is kp-14 in devel |
| 21:02.20 | Estel_ | s/kp-14/kernel-power-settings-14/ |
| 21:02.24 | vi_ | Estel_: wut, you mean KP51? |
| 21:02.35 | Estel_ | In one device, I have kernel-power-settings 15, that got installed before it got removed from repos |
| 21:02.54 | Estel_ | vi_, yea, I've heard about pending update for KP, but I don't know if it happened or not |
| 21:03.09 | Estel_ | I just want to install thumb and I'm lsot about manual steps needed after, as it's WIP still |
| 21:03.34 | Estel_ | i.e. if it's still required to mess with kernel-power-settings manually? or google fix is only one thing needed? |
| 21:04.50 | kerio | Estel_: i'm using the thumb repo without actually switching cssu flavour |
| 21:04.56 | vi_ | Estel_: you should avoid thumb for a couple of days till the last updates are complete. |
| 21:05.12 | vi_ | it is a minefield right now. |
| 21:05.16 | Estel_ | vi, I have old version of thumb on one of my devices |
| 21:05.18 | kerio | that, too |
| 21:05.20 | Estel_ | I see |
| 21:05.25 | Estel_ | now I'm talking about main device :P |
| 21:05.53 | kerio | make a full backupmenu backup and don't install the kernel or busybox-power from the thumb repo |
| 21:05.59 | Estel_ | oh, yea, guys claiming that new hostmode eats less batery thaN old hostmode. suuure, it sounds beliveable |
| 21:06.25 | Estel_ | kerio, why no busybox-power? post on TMO? |
| 21:06.30 | vi_ | why not busybox? |
| 21:06.40 | freemangordon | and why not kernel? |
| 21:06.43 | kerio | no, because it's thumby |
| 21:06.48 | vi_ | yeah! |
| 21:06.54 | freemangordon | and? |
| 21:06.57 | kerio | and if you have to reflash a different kernel backupmenu won't work |
| 21:07.01 | vi_ | eh? |
| 21:07.14 | Estel_ | kerio, do You realise, than kernel is required for thumb? |
| 21:07.19 | kerio | yes i do |
| 21:07.34 | kerio | no, wait |
| 21:07.36 | kerio | you just need kp51 |
| 21:07.45 | Estel_ | also, I know that backupmenu doesn't restore kernels, it's no problem ;) |
| 21:07.50 | kerio | or any kernel with kernel-feature-whatever-errata |
| 21:07.55 | Estel_ | yea |
| 21:07.57 | vi_ | estel he is saying, if you update to BB thump and have to reinstall nokia kernel. You are fucked. |
| 21:08.10 | freemangordon | guys, DO NOT UPDATE/INSTALL anything from thumb repo until told so |
| 21:08.18 | Estel_ | first, I never use Nokia kernel :p second, why fucked, jsut flash ti via flasher and restore |
| 21:08.26 | kerio | well, you're "fucked" |
| 21:08.28 | Estel_ | freemangordon, lol? |
| 21:08.30 | kerio | if you have a pc it's no problem |
| 21:08.31 | vi_ | freemangordon: yes. |
| 21:08.32 | freemangordon | it is in inconsistent state right now, I am preparing an update |
| 21:08.41 | zeq1 | freemangordon: what's up with the repo? |
| 21:08.44 | Estel_ | freemangordon, thanks, it's what I asked about :) |
| 21:08.53 | freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ |
| 21:09.05 | zeq1 | inconsistent state, yes |
| 21:09.12 | zeq1 | I mean, what did you do to it? :) |
| 21:09.19 | Estel_ | freemangordon, and kernel-power 51? We're going to see update in few days, or everythinh for now is in latest version? |
| 21:09.27 | freemangordon | nothing broken, but still ;) |
| 21:09.29 | Estel_ | those r1 r2 etc versions confused me |
| 21:09.53 | freemangordon | Estel_: see on TMO, don;t have time now |
| 21:10.01 | Estel_ | last question - kernel-power settings state. Why one of ym devices have versioon 15, and that version got pulled out from repos, later, manually |
| 21:10.04 | Estel_ | by x-fade |
| 21:10.06 | kerio | Estel_: KP51 is a separate thing, but KP51r1 should be the "stable" one |
| 21:10.06 | vi_ | Estel_: there is kp51 in devel. |
| 21:10.10 | Estel_ | freemangordon, thanks :P |
| 21:10.20 | kerio | Estel_: and k-p-s v15 is in the repos |
| 21:10.29 | Estel_ | I just have 1272 posts to read on TMO :( |
| 21:10.32 | kerio | if you're unsure about what you've installed, uninstall and reinstall from -devel |
| 21:10.48 | Estel_ | kerio, thanks, i know that, I was asking about "why it got manually pulled out of repos" at some point |
| 21:10.51 | Estel_ | out of curiosity |
| 21:10.53 | vi_ | and DONT DRINK THE WATER. |
| 21:11.10 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 21:11.13 | kerio | it was never pulled out of the repos |
| 21:11.14 | kerio | :o |
| 21:11.17 | Estel_ | kerio, it was |
| 21:11.25 | kerio | kp50 |
| 21:11.28 | kerio | not k-p-s |
| 21:11.28 | Estel_ | wait a minute *searches for link* |
| 21:11.31 | Estel_ | settings! |
| 21:11.35 | kerio | madness |
| 21:11.35 | vi_ | Estel_: just echo your values strait to /sys. no KPS required. |
| 21:11.44 | Estel_ | vi_, that's an option too |
| 21:12.20 | Estel_ | this is not madness, this is... parlamentar comission in polish goverment ;) |
| 21:12.45 | Estel_ | jokes asie, I'll just wait few days with thumb |
| 21:13.11 | Estel_ | as more I try to understand it's current state (and why so) the more confusing it is. It must wait until I read everything that I've missed in TMO |
| 21:13.18 | Estel_ | see You all in 2056 :P |
| 21:13.44 | kerio | waaaaah why doesn't extras-devel use pdiffs |
| 21:13.46 | Estel_ | joke of the year: I can always ask Council about current state of Community projects |
| 21:13.47 | vi_ | in fact you can set almost everything from /etc/pmconfig. |
| 21:14.05 | vi_ | Estel_: why is that a joke? |
| 21:14.19 | Estel_ | try that, You will know the answer |
| 21:15.46 | kerio | has everything upgraded |
| 21:15.47 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@cm-84.209.20.159.getinternet.no) |
| 21:16.09 | Estel_ | also, I need to mess up with N950 - I've updated it, finally, to latest version via one click flasher |
| 21:16.11 | Estel_ | it's different story |
| 21:16.19 | Estel_ | reboot loop[ after upgrade on device left me without battery |
| 21:16.26 | Estel_ | and emergency charging wasn't able to charge it |
| 21:16.52 | Estel_ | had to take it out of device and charge in external charger, (battery), as fuckin one click flasher didn't wanted to flash with less than 30 percent batteruy |
| 21:16.54 | Estel_ | battery |
| 21:17.01 | freemangordon | FUUUK, I am out of cigarettes and microb refuse to compile with gcc 4.7.2 |
| 21:17.02 | Estel_ | well, it was 2,96 V when I took it out |
| 21:17.13 | kerio | freemangordon: oh god D: |
| 21:17.17 | Estel_ | freemangordon, good moment to drop smoking :P |
| 21:17.20 | kerio | buy more cigarettes! hurry! |
| 21:17.29 | vi_ | freemangordon: progress to roll-ups. |
| 21:17.30 | kerio | Estel_: THIS IS NOT TIME FOR CRAZY TALK |
| 21:17.42 | Estel_ | sure, it's time to drop smoking :P |
| 21:17.57 | kerio | Estel_: anyway, haters gonna hate |
| 21:18.06 | kerio | the only unupgraded package i have is the mp one because i held it |
| 21:18.15 | kerio | and i'm using a shitton of repos |
| 21:18.18 | zeq1 | freemangordon: can't you compare the failing code with what's in the mozilla-central codebase? |
| 21:18.20 | Estel_ | well, still, even on newest version, N950 works in portrait mode, mosltly./ I don't know, Nokianks are fckd in head. On N900, they did landscape only, and much effort was put to bring portrait |
| 21:18.31 | Estel_ | now in N950 they did portrait-mostly, and much effort is to bring landscape |
| 21:18.34 | freemangordon | Estel_: are you sure you want to install the microb-engine i've compiled after being without cigarettes for couple of hours? |
| 21:18.42 | kerio | so it did compile! |
| 21:18.48 | freemangordon | no |
| 21:18.56 | Estel_ | freemangordon, sure :D I always though that artists on drugs would perform even *better* without them :D |
| 21:18.58 | zeq1 | freemangordon: most common cause of failure with 4.7 is missing headers l |
| 21:19.04 | Estel_ | but no one knows for sure |
| 21:19.04 | kerio | then i don't want to install it :c |
| 21:19.25 | freemangordon | zeq1: this time the reason is because the source code is FUBAR |
| 21:19.46 | Estel_ | freemangordon, You can try doing it like in some lame hacker movie |
| 21:19.54 | Estel_ | when "hero" was "hacking" into fbi or something |
| 21:19.58 | Estel_ | under 2 minutes |
| 21:20.04 | Estel_ | via typing in fancy tyerminal gui |
| 21:20.25 | zeq1 | freemangordon: have you tried applying the microb patches to mozilla-central? I was thinking of trying to port them earlier today. |
| 21:20.30 | Estel_ | with gun next to his head and girl do9ing him forced blowjob. Most ridicolous "hacker" scene in movies, at all |
| 21:20.58 | *** join/#maemo rcg2 (~rc@g226028250.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:20.59 | freemangordon | zeq1: the function declaration in header is void foo(const bar&), the definition in cpp is void foo(bar*) |
| 21:21.05 | Estel_ | it's still haunting some people, years after watching. I wonder how much fkcd in head script writer was |
| 21:21.24 | freemangordon | WTF? zeq1, I am not sure I want to use a SW written by those guys |
| 21:21.40 | zeq1 | is that from the microb patches? |
| 21:21.45 | vi_ | Estel_: you have a none thumb device? |
| 21:21.46 | freemangordon | don't think so |
| 21:21.53 | freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ |
| 21:21.56 | Estel_ | vi_, currently with me, no thumb |
| 21:22.04 | Estel_ | one device lying ind rawer 300 miles away got old thumb |
| 21:22.11 | Estel_ | ind rawer* |
| 21:22.13 | Estel_ | fuck |
| 21:22.18 | Estel_ | in drawer* |
| 21:22.24 | zeq1 | it's quite a crusty xulrunner version |
| 21:22.32 | vi_ | Estel_: good. can you echo top to a file and pastebinit for me? |
| 21:22.43 | Estel_ | sure |
| 21:22.43 | freemangordon | zeq1: most probably it is original code, after buying cigarretes i will check what is without patches. bbl |
| 21:26.12 | vi_ | estel: can you paste it on tmo with 'cat /proc/swaps' and 'free'? |
| 21:26.43 | vi_ | start a new thread with a name like thumb vs non-thumb memory comparisons. |
| 21:27.00 | vi_ | I will also update it with my stats. |
| 21:27.00 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?6aae50d5e255556f#4/L4KuUK36aCgAEfg1ooBfMwd8PiKQZKOVWhBCu91Zw= |
| 21:27.11 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 21:27.23 | Estel_ | vi_, all right |
| 21:27.30 | Estel_ | vi_, mind You, that I have Ed enabled all the time |
| 21:27.34 | vi_ | Hopefully we can get the ball rolling on quantifying the true benefits of thumb. |
| 21:27.36 | Estel_ | not LXDE, jsut chrooted into |
| 21:27.45 | vi_ | Estel_: that is fine. |
| 21:28.00 | Estel_ | ok, log I've send Yuo is after device sitting idle for few hours |
| 21:28.04 | Estel_ | without anything openm |
| 21:28.06 | Estel_ | open* |
| 21:28.15 | vi_ | at this stage in the game everyone runs a fucked up personalised setup. |
| 21:28.52 | kerio | vi_: also note that browserd has a bug regarding the fact that it doesn't close down properly |
| 21:28.57 | kerio | or something |
| 21:29.12 | Estel_ | what do you think, which TMO category is suited best for this topic? |
| 21:29.32 | Estel_ | memo 5/fremantle, I thing |
| 21:29.36 | Estel_ | applications doesn';t sound ok for it |
| 21:30.27 | vi_ | fremantle. |
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| 21:33.54 | Woody14619 | Funny you should consider the "joke of the year" asking Council about current projects, Estel_. |
| 21:34.16 | Woody14619 | What I would consider the "joke of the year" around Council, would be very different. |
| 21:34.29 | Estel_ | nice for You |
| 21:34.42 | Estel_ | vi_, either than cat /proc/swaps You need anything else? |
| 21:34.55 | Estel_ | and top output, of course |
| 21:36.20 | Estel_ | vi_, anyway, here it is: |
| 21:36.21 | Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1243487#post1243487 |
| 21:41.23 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
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| 21:45.50 | vi_ | yes. sort by memory useage in top. |
| 21:48.35 | kerio | is there a way to get the memory usage without buffers and caches? |
| 21:49.07 | kerio | oh nvm, the second line in the output of free |
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| 21:57.15 | Estel_ | vi__, I've fixed top output (was fubar) and posted free too |
| 21:57.18 | Estel_ | in thread on tmo |
| 21:57.23 | Estel_ | should be OK'ish now |
| 21:57.38 | Estel_ | vi_ even |
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| 22:08.31 | Estel_ | Now I have to a) update main device to all thumb enchanced flavors and so goes on b) make N950 usable and test many things on it c) start messing up with 2 raspberry Pi's that are lying on desk next to me |
| 22:08.42 | Estel_ | ... in 7 days before my 2 weeks holidays start |
| 22:08.45 | Estel_ | suuure |
| 22:09.43 | freemangordon | zeq1: after all it was not Nokia to screw it up. That was coming from the upstream |
| 22:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | appguard banned from google store? ROTFL!! |
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| 22:11.50 | freemangordon | no antivirus for android? heh |
| 22:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | no proper alternative to what Nokia thought they could implement with aegis |
| 22:15.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | but actually it's a lame joke that google bans a good app from their store, probably and most likely because it could actually allow users to regain control over their own data |
| 22:15.48 | freemangordon | no more rootkits, no good for the big brother :D |
| 22:16.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm totally baffled as I thought android "security" been always like appguard - obviously I've been mistaken |
| 22:17.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, appguard still available in the internets, from a german university of course ;-P |
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| 22:23.27 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 22:24.43 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 22:25.11 | japh | now you're talking ed memory footprint is this not my old friend ed the editor |
| 22:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and fools at #harmattan don't wanna hear how appguard is better than any aegis |
| 22:27.23 | FIQ|n900 | two op? |
| 22:27.57 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: it's not like if we want to listen aegis suddenly will go away |
| 22:30.05 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I'll put ti straight - if someone like aegis, he msut be fckd in head |
| 22:30.23 | Estel_ | damn, need to get used to writing from N950 |
| 22:30.28 | Estel_ | sorry for typos |
| 22:30.54 | Estel_ | but, probably, those are same guys, that think capacitive screenm is "more precise" or sensitive than resistive |
| 22:31.43 | FIQ|n900 | oh god |
| 22:31.54 | FIQ|n900 | capacitive screens... |
| 22:32.06 | ZogG_laptop | lol |
| 22:32.55 | FIQ|n900 | I don't like them, but I guess I'll have to live with it sooner or later |
| 22:33.10 | FIQ|n900 | capacitive screen = no more nail-stylus |
| 22:33.37 | Estel_ | capacitive screen - no more hitting anything smaller than iphone button |
| 22:33.41 | Estel_ | and no, You won't have |
| 22:33.51 | Estel_ | resistive screens got very good multitouch implemented anyway |
| 22:34.02 | Estel_ | in low end user products, capacitive will surely flood the market as they do now |
| 22:34.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | you just have to live with it like you have to live with glossy laptop display |
| 22:34.08 | FIQ|n900 | though it's not as horrible as lacking hardware keyboard :P |
| 22:34.23 | Estel_ | but no sane person will pay many $$$ for geeky product supposed to be mobile computer, with capacitive |
| 22:34.32 | Estel_ | unless thei fix technology to properly support precision |
| 22:34.41 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: how is it connected one to another? |
| 22:34.48 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, nope, I buiy only notebooks with mat display |
| 22:34.52 | Estel_ | vote via your money. |
| 22:34.57 | FIQ|n900 | [00:33:37] <Estel_> capacitive screen - no more hitting anything smaller than iphone button |
| 22:35.15 | FIQ|n900 | this is another reason why I don't like them yeah |
| 22:35.27 | Estel_ | not to mention pressure sensitivity |
| 22:35.35 | Estel_ | I mean, sensing real pressure |
| 22:35.55 | ZogG_laptop | i had no problems with capacitive screens, while push harder to get response is always been the problem with resistance ones |
| 22:35.56 | Estel_ | but capacitive fanboys *wavew to zog) don't have a clue, anyway |
| 22:35.59 | FIQ|n900 | indeed |
| 22:36.15 | Estel_ | ZogG, as said, open anything real - like easy debian, - and try it with capacitive |
| 22:36.18 | Estel_ | then come back ;) |
| 22:36.20 | FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: lol, that's *better* |
| 22:36.25 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: sure i don't. it's not like i had n900 before... =) |
| 22:36.54 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: yes and use stylus in bus while standing, truely geek |
| 22:37.03 | Estel_ | no problems with it |
| 22:37.12 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: don't you think that mobile UI should be mobile UI and desktop ui shuld be desktop |
| 22:37.13 | Estel_ | but I probably don't have crippled fingers, like most tenaagers have |
| 22:37.20 | Estel_ | nowadays |
| 22:37.27 | Estel_ | dropping every small item 5 times per minute |
| 22:37.33 | Estel_ | BTw, resistive works great with fingers, ya know? |
| 22:37.37 | FIQ|n900 | [00:36:53] <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: yes and use stylus in bus while standing, truely geek |
| 22:37.43 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: as well geeks don't use fancy unity but awesome and things where you can live without mouse |
| 22:37.48 | FIQ|n900 | I always use my nails, much more comfortable imo |
| 22:38.01 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, exactly |
| 22:38.10 | Estel_ | on the go, I oeprated it with fingers, without problems, as per nails |
| 22:38.21 | ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: Estel_ i don't grow nails just for phone =) |
| 22:38.23 | Estel_ | also, I got this smal guitar-like thing from 5320 |
| 22:38.38 | Estel_ | ZogG, face it, tennagers grown on capacitive screens have crippled fingers :P |
| 22:38.44 | FIQ|n900 | also, I accidently lost the stylus to my old phone... didn't hurt me at all |
| 22:38.46 | ZogG_laptop | and if you have no problems with fingers you can use capacity |
| 22:38.56 | FIQ|n900 | (which also had a resistive screen) |
| 22:39.03 | Estel_ | I'll repeat it again, last tiome - capacitive stylus must be almsot as big as finger to work |
| 22:39.04 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i dunno about it, never checked teenagers fingers |
| 22:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | feeds ZogG_laptop a buffalo horn |
| 22:39.06 | Estel_ | which make it useless |
| 22:39.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | eat THAT |
| 22:39.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | instead of your fingernails |
| 22:39.16 | Estel_ | lol :) |
| 22:39.35 | FIQ|n900 | also Estel_ |
| 22:39.39 | Estel_ | the problem with capacitive is that You can't comfortably use anything smaller than iphone button-sized |
| 22:39.56 | Estel_ | ...which makes it unusable for anything other than dumb-phone things, like angry birds |
| 22:39.59 | FIQ|n900 | it's not the lack of diameter, more like the (lack of) temperature iirc? |
| 22:40.06 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, no |
| 22:40.08 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: there is only one thing in resistance better than capacity which is pressure measures. |
| 22:40.13 | Estel_ | it depend son type, but N950 and N9, no |
| 22:40.18 | FIQ|n900 | ok |
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| 22:40.38 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, basically, is msut be something capacitive that forwards capacitance from your body to screen |
| 22:40.48 | Estel_ | but some IDIOT decided, that small detection areas must be errors |
| 22:40.52 | Estel_ | so they're filtyered out |
| 22:40.52 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you have very good comparing and argument skills i must say =) |
| 22:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | capacitive is from capacitor. |
| 22:41.00 | FIQ|n900 | Estel_: brilliant |
| 22:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki capacitor (electric) |
| 22:41.05 | Estel_ | = only things like 15mm diameter are detected |
| 22:41.25 | FIQ|n900 | thank you xchat for that broken link |
| 22:41.34 | Estel_ | but of course, it's like iphone retina screens - there are always fanmboys like ZogG, who "know better" |
| 22:41.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | dielectric constant * area / distance |
| 22:41.51 | Estel_ | we will eternally have idiots, proving that "retina" screens are "superior technology" |
| 22:42.07 | Estel_ | and we will always have idiots, that doesn't see capacitive screens are just about manufacturing costs |
| 22:42.12 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you know that you just switch name and you can use your sentense against you |
| 22:42.16 | Estel_ | and both technically and as per usability, worse for user |
| 22:42.24 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: but sure it's like Estel_ fanboys who knows better |
| 22:42.43 | Estel_ | well, some people just like to think that "industry angels decided to give us better things" ;) |
| 22:42.48 | FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: indeed, which makes that argument useless |
| 22:42.49 | Estel_ | marketing guys did their job done |
| 22:43.10 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if you use desktop resolution and fancy DE on mobile, than it doesn't mean you a geek, i would say opposite |
| 22:43.13 | FIQ|n900 | but IMO resistive > capacitive, for the reasons I and Estel_ has stated |
| 22:43.24 | Estel_ | ZogG, the whole point is that You don't have any counter-arguments agaisnt capacitive screens lack of sensing small area touch |
| 22:43.26 | Estel_ | You jsut write |
| 22:43.36 | Estel_ | "resistive is better only via pressure sensitivity" |
| 22:43.46 | Estel_ | while You ignore any arguments, that doesn't match Your fanboish viewe |
| 22:43.48 | FIQ|n900 | also this is turning into a flameware |
| 22:43.54 | Estel_ | kinda |
| 22:43.58 | ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: it's not like i'm trying to prove my point here, ijust like capacitive and said it, but he decided to call me fanboy and prove i'm wrong (on prefering something), it amuses me =P |
| 22:44.01 | Estel_ | as every "discussion" with ZogG ;) |
| 22:44.16 | Estel_ | well, we're talking about merit of technical and practical benefits |
| 22:44.21 | Estel_ | not about what someone like or not |
| 22:44.28 | FIQ|n900 | s/ware/war/ |
| 22:44.30 | FIQ|n900 | nice typo |
| 22:44.35 | Estel_ | my point is that industry feeds us with capacitive screens for their reasons, not our comfort |
| 22:44.42 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: the whole dialog is you saying a lot of crap with no arguements and than it's "like all discussion with ZogG" =) |
| 22:45.00 | Estel_ | as for both technical and prtactical reasons, capacitive screens are inferior |
| 22:45.31 | Estel_ | it's just more comfortable for *them* to put it, and marketing department took feeding fanboys with bullshit that it's "better", like with "retina" screens |
| 22:45.34 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if UI is good you can use fingers, as touch screen in mobiles are made for fingers. so you can touch it. Stylus is yesterday. that's it |
| 22:45.49 | Estel_ | in dumb phones, yes |
| 22:45.56 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: you removed the bot's "let's announce every replace!" thing? :P |
| 22:45.58 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i still don't see how it's worse that resistance |
| 22:45.59 | Estel_ | in any other use case - l;ike real mobile computer - it's design flaw |
| 22:46.22 | Estel_ | we're tal;king about things pretending to be linux-related mobile computers with phone funcionality |
| 22:46.23 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 22:46.27 | Estel_ | as in N950 |
| 22:46.32 | FIQ|n900 | also ZogG_laptop what about websites? |
| 22:46.33 | Estel_ | or really mobile computers, as in N900 |
| 22:46.42 | Estel_ | yea, clicking text links suxx too |
| 22:46.58 | ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: i had no problems with double tap that would focus to right size |
| 22:47.02 | FIQ|n900 | I tried to use iPhone to go to a pair of websites |
| 22:47.03 | Estel_ | unless someone read them in 300% zoom, which is, probably, the case with teenagers with broken eyes |
| 22:47.12 | Estel_ | sure, 4 x more clicks than needed |
| 22:47.15 | Estel_ | double tap to zoom |
| 22:47.20 | Estel_ | then zoom again to desired size |
| 22:47.26 | Estel_ | very optimal. |
| 22:47.32 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: taking off stylus and putting it back, losing it is worse than 4 clicks |
| 22:47.39 | Estel_ | why won't You just swap to text based browsers, at all? |
| 22:47.41 | FIQ|n900 | Estel_: I'm vision impared |
| 22:47.45 | ZogG_laptop | and again it's not practical when you are on the way |
| 22:47.57 | FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: ok, didn't know that |
| 22:48.04 | ZogG_laptop | your concentration would be on phone instead of walking =) |
| 22:48.08 | Estel_ | ZogG, fingertips ;) also, due to lesser area detected, resistive are better in this case, even with regular fingers |
| 22:48.21 | FIQ|n900 | but IMO it would be more practical not having to rezoom everytime |
| 22:48.22 | Estel_ | BTw, when You walk, better not use phone watching screen at all |
| 22:48.26 | Estel_ | truck may hit You m;) |
| 22:48.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 22:48.34 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: :) |
| 22:48.46 | ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: Estel_ most modern sites are mobile friendly |
| 22:48.52 | Estel_ | LOL |
| 22:48.59 | Estel_ | sure, for facebook fans it may suffice |
| 22:49.04 | RiD|AFK | ^ |
| 22:49.05 | Estel_ | but for this you need 200 mhz dumb phone |
| 22:49.17 | Estel_ | on real mobile computers, I want to watch normal sites |
| 22:49.20 | ZogG_laptop | and i need to zoom mostly on sites like old forums with really small links. while normal sites have swipe and other tasty stuff |
| 22:49.21 | FIQ|n900 | They are, but I hate mobile sites that cripple everything |
| 22:49.25 | Estel_ | otherwise, 200x200 pixels screen suffice |
| 22:49.26 | FIQ|n900 | Estel_: Indeed |
| 22:49.29 | RiD|AFK | i hate mobile sites mostly |
| 22:49.33 | RiD|AFK | they're like way too basic |
| 22:49.38 | RiD | doesn't let you do anything |
| 22:49.43 | FIQ|n900 | indeed |
| 22:49.48 | RiD | just "check this, no more support because it's ass to do so" |
| 22:49.55 | Estel_ | well, the thing is, with resistive screens You can use fingers, stylus, whatever - hit big detection area, or 2 pixel wide one |
| 22:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | heads out puking a little |
| 22:49.59 | Estel_ | with capacitive, youre cripopled |
| 22:50.04 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i don't like that if you don't like something you assume people who do not agree with you are teenagers and using only facebook. it's ignorance and stupid btw =) |
| 22:50.08 | Estel_ | and forced to use only one method |
| 22:50.32 | Estel_ | well, saying "you can always use mobile-optimized sites only" for mobile computer is indeed ignorance |
| 22:50.42 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 22:50.50 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if finger works on resistance is would work on capacitive as well. simple like that |
| 22:51.00 | FIQ|n900 | oh by the way Estel_, what are you plans with n950? i.e. what will you play around with? |
| 22:51.12 | ZogG_laptop | stylus is less comfy than finger, because finger is simply part of you |
| 22:51.20 | Estel_ | too much time wasted on this pointless discussion. I'm glad that my belowed N900 have nice resistive screen, and my heart cries that N950 1GB of ram is kinda wasted, as no real programs for it |
| 22:51.23 | Estel_ | like running Ed |
| 22:51.33 | Estel_ | unless someone invent notebook-touchpad like control for it |
| 22:51.43 | ZogG_laptop | the one reason resistance can be better is simply the pressure measure when you can use it for painting and things like that |
| 22:51.44 | Estel_ | ZogG, wrong as always |
| 22:51.53 | Estel_ | on resistive, You can touch with half of Your finger too |
| 22:52.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: my fingernails are also a part of me, and I'm not eating them like you do |
| 22:52.04 | FIQ|n900 | uuh |
| 22:52.06 | Estel_ | on capacitive, there is minimum treeshold on surface detected |
| 22:52.14 | Estel_ | You can't use smaller thing than set diameter, period |
| 22:52.17 | FIQ|n900 | Estel_: you're using ed? :p |
| 22:52.29 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: i cut them and i dn't grow them long like a girl, what can i do |
| 22:52.29 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, extensively. as in easy debian |
| 22:52.42 | FIQ|n900 | oh.. right |
| 22:52.47 | Estel_ | ZogG, any normal person with short fingernails don't have problems using them to tap something on screen |
| 22:52.50 | FIQ|n900 | wasn't that obvious :D |
| 22:52.58 | *** join/#maemo TabletEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:53.21 | FIQ|n900 | but Estel_, what will you play around with @n950? |
| 22:53.25 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: but the angle to touch it? |
| 22:53.37 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, will try community things like open ekrnel and e4nchancements |
| 22:53.39 | ZogG_laptop | 90% would make you touch with tip of finger |
| 22:53.44 | Estel_ | out of factory state is kinda unusable |
| 22:53.52 | ZogG_laptop | !=% |
| 22:54.08 | ZogG_laptop | 90⁰ |
| 22:54.12 | FIQ|n900 | ah, but will you do actual development with it? |
| 22:54.38 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, define development. If what I did for N900 was development, sure. But I don't think it's fair to call it like that |
| 22:54.40 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if you dont like your n950 give it to e-eyes |
| 22:54.47 | Estel_ | and for sure I'm going to do some hardware things with it :) |
| 22:55.00 | Estel_ | ZogG, why, You can always give Your one. |
| 22:55.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is no such thing like development on harmattan - only qtm drag'n'drop "programming" |
| 22:55.10 | Estel_ | noe one said we don't like it, which don't mean we can't point out flaws |
| 22:55.17 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i do like mine and use it, but you only bitching about it |
| 22:55.17 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, that's too :P |
| 22:55.27 | FIQ|n900 | ah, just wondered if a n950 was justified (didn't want to start a flame here, but whatever) :p |
| 22:55.33 | Estel_ | difference between sane user and fanboy - I like it, but I moar on it's flaws |
| 22:55.45 | Estel_ | like I moar on N900's out of factory usb port |
| 22:55.48 | Estel_ | or lack of HDMI out |
| 22:55.52 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: sounds really complicated |
| 22:55.59 | Estel_ | but that one is fixable, at least |
| 22:56.08 | FIQ|n900 | is there tutorials available? :< |
| 22:56.09 | Estel_ | either by reinforcing usb port, or as in hdmi out, using raspberry Pi as middle-man |
| 22:56.39 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, I'm surprised that someone stil lcome with that topic, but CA awards were not about development :P |
| 22:57.00 | FIQ|n900 | whatever :p |
| 22:57.08 | trx | DocScrutinizer ++ |
| 22:57.09 | Estel_ | for developmkent, Yuo have 300 prior devices, and another 30 N950's from this pyear propgrams |
| 22:57.10 | ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: it's easy to judge and say things when you don't really do anything. so don't listen to them. you can use any language there =) |
| 22:57.14 | japh | I only have myself to blame but I *did* read 'something about fm chip' on n950 and that was enough for me to take for granted that, ok, great, I can use it like I use the n900 in the car. Big mistake since it's not even fixable by me |
| 22:57.16 | FIQ|n900 | Just wondered what you would do with it |
| 22:57.24 | FIQ|n900 | wants one too d: |
| 22:57.34 | Estel_ | japh, yea, that's another overkill |
| 22:57.44 | Estel_ | FMTX transmitter present, but not connected to antenna |
| 22:58.04 | Estel_ | well, if I ever do custom alu body for N950 for bigger battery - like with N900 - i'll put FMTX there |
| 22:58.07 | Estel_ | external one |
| 22:58.27 | Estel_ | for example, rated up to 1W, so You can jam half of city with your music :P |
| 22:58.31 | ZogG_laptop | it seems to me that actually not me here is fanboy as i like both n9 and n900. but people here saying that n900 is "da bes phone evar" |
| 22:58.34 | zeq1 | freemangordon: you've fixed it then? |
| 22:58.35 | Estel_ | (with external antenna connected) |
| 22:58.57 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: did you finish the n900's one btw? |
| 22:59.11 | Estel_ | it's about looking at things meritocratic way. N950 got some things better, but others are blockers, for mobile computer use case :( |
| 22:59.12 | japh | it would've been so much better with it. And 16G is way too little space , at least for me... It'd be fine if I could add 64G of sdhc but that was another thing I didn't look up; I thought that hey why would nokia make this cool n900++ device and leave out some of the most awesomest things |
| 22:59.15 | FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: I'm preferring n900 due to its' keyboard |
| 22:59.17 | japh | oh well |
| 22:59.24 | zeq1 | I'm going to build a new cputransp devkit with a modern qemu |
| 22:59.25 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: any preview photos or actually anything and not just talking |
| 22:59.29 | Estel_ | ZogG, see thread on TMO. that's why i've said "if I ever", as N900 one is priority now |
| 22:59.46 | Estel_ | Well, check for Yourself, TMO thread is public ;) |
| 22:59.47 | ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: i like keyboard too, but again if UI is wise and it's matter of getting used too |
| 22:59.57 | Estel_ | also, it's kinda funny, as You haven't donated single penny for it |
| 23:00.01 | FIQ|n900 | oh please |
| 23:00.04 | japh | n900 is great and maemo is great, but the issue is that it's too damn slow today. With 512M more ram... sure |
| 23:00.06 | Estel_ | yet You're bitching about lack of progress? Seriously? |
| 23:00.14 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i saw thread, there was nothing on first post. |
| 23:00.16 | FIQ|n900 | not a single touch-keyboard will ever make me happy |
| 23:00.33 | Estel_ | ZogG, that's nice, as thread like that are for people that can read 10 pages thread, not only single post :) |
| 23:00.46 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: talking is only talking |
| 23:00.47 | japh | fiq|n900, have you tried this 'swype' thing? |
| 23:00.50 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, following twisted logic of that guy, You don't need phone at all |
| 23:00.56 | Estel_ | You may get used to carrying desktop with You |
| 23:01.01 | FIQ|n900 | tried every variants, various android phones, various iphone models, the DS/3DS, nothing suited me |
| 23:01.03 | Estel_ | and riding statioonary bicycle for powering it |
| 23:01.06 | japh | I also said like that before I tried it, and I still insist that typing on the screen sucks |
| 23:01.09 | FIQ|n900 | japh: I've heard of it |
| 23:01.17 | FIQ|n900 | uh wait |
| 23:01.22 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: that's actually you using desctop apps on phone =) not me |
| 23:01.22 | japh | yes ;) |
| 23:01.27 | FIQ|n900 | Isn't it the android spellchecker? |
| 23:01.30 | Estel_ | japh, after extensive training, swype may be faster for writing typical sms messages |
| 23:01.32 | Estel_ | but nothing more |
| 23:01.37 | japh | uhm not really a spellchecker afaik |
| 23:01.43 | FIQ|n900 | or smth |
| 23:01.47 | FIQ|n900 | spellcorrecter |
| 23:01.50 | Estel_ | ZogG, ever heard about why people created notebooks, and later, mobile computers, like N900? ;) |
| 23:01.50 | japh | I don't really get how it works because I can't type on it fast enough I guess |
| 23:01.51 | FIQ|n900 | i meant |
| 23:01.56 | Estel_ | for me, you can go back to stone age |
| 23:02.12 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: your logic is broken |
| 23:02.17 | FIQ|n900 | and also |
| 23:02.19 | Estel_ | suure ;) |
| 23:02.22 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: new is always a change! |
| 23:02.22 | japh | it takes about 2 minutes for me typing one of my passwords on the onscreen keyboard :( |
| 23:02.31 | FIQ|n900 | touch keyboards removes a lot of screen space |
| 23:02.42 | Estel_ | well, for mobile computer hardware keyboard is a must |
| 23:02.42 | FIQ|n900 | things that could be used for something *useful* |
| 23:02.49 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you want something smaller, lighter, than it would not be the same as desctop. |
| 23:02.51 | Estel_ | just like good screen, not that capacitive thing :( |
| 23:03.03 | FIQ|n900 | like an editor/terminal/webpage/etc |
| 23:03.10 | Estel_ | ZogG, wrong as always. Smaller ands lighter doesn't necessary mean cripple din features |
| 23:03.26 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it's only u saying cripple. |
| 23:03.27 | Estel_ | modularity allow to sue N900 as full fledged desktop, depending on peripherials you carry with You |
| 23:03.44 | Estel_ | for example, Yuo can even connect serial cable to it, or parallel |
| 23:03.45 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: than just make exact copy of computer, just smaller and use it =) |
| 23:04.02 | Estel_ | and in form factor of mobile phone. so? N900 is kinda this |
| 23:04.05 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and it can make coffee for you as well. right. |
| 23:04.21 | Estel_ | well, it seems that You're just no in *our* use case group :) |
| 23:04.24 | FIQ|n900 | ZogG_laptop: that would work, if the form factor was a bit improved |
| 23:04.29 | Estel_ | You want dumb phone with useless resources like fact cpu and ram |
| 23:04.35 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can connect serial cable to N900? |
| 23:04.38 | Estel_ | as yopu can;'t utilize them |
| 23:04.42 | Estel_ | ZogG, sure |
| 23:04.52 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and you did it? |
| 23:04.53 | Estel_ | we wan't mobile computer with phone funcionality |
| 23:04.57 | Estel_ | ZogG, sure ;) |
| 23:05.06 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and you use it in eveyday life? |
| 23:05.07 | japh | nokia made some really annoying design faults but then again there's still nothing out there that can come close to either n950 nor n900. Everything sucks, this is just what sucks the least |
| 23:05.18 | Estel_ | I carry usb->serial adaptor when I need it |
| 23:05.24 | FIQ|n900 | japh: indeed |
| 23:05.25 | Estel_ | for example, debugging CNc machines on field |
| 23:05.32 | Estel_ | other people connect N900 to car OBSII systems |
| 23:05.37 | Estel_ | other people do other fancy things |
| 23:05.37 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i prefer something to be more comfy in everyday life use, than just something that can make things for just prove of concept |
| 23:05.45 | Estel_ | having real computer, YOU decide how to use it |
| 23:05.48 | Estel_ | not vendor |
| 23:06.02 | Estel_ | well, so youre typical windows user mentality type |
| 23:06.03 | FIQ|n900 | oh well |
| 23:06.12 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: any modern car can have wireless connection and apps with nice ui to do what you want to do |
| 23:06.13 | japh | I wouldn't really care for regular cell phone use since today who makes regular phone calls anyway? |
| 23:06.14 | Estel_ | linux mentality type is that we can, but not *must* use other options |
| 23:06.16 | Estel_ | so we have choice |
| 23:06.20 | *** join/#maemo Ariadeno (~Ariadeno@5571f108.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 23:06.24 | ZogG_laptop | for hardware things there are special tools for that |
| 23:06.30 | FIQ|n900 | if someone made a mobile with the form factor of n900, improved specs, a real OS |
| 23:06.31 | Estel_ | and everyone can put combination of features available that likes much, via peripherials, or programs |
| 23:06.36 | FIQ|n900 | then take my money |
| 23:06.40 | japh | When I need to call grandma I use the 3310 anyway |
| 23:07.00 | FIQ|n900 | if not, I'll go ahead and buy a new n900 when it's needed |
| 23:07.07 | Estel_ | japh, buth having possibility to do phone calls don't hurt :) |
| 23:07.10 | japh | mhm good luck fiq|n900 |
| 23:07.11 | Estel_ | and mobile network |
| 23:07.14 | Estel_ | it makes great pair |
| 23:07.16 | japh | you better hurry up I'm afraid :p |
| 23:07.20 | FIQ|n900 | japh: :< |
| 23:07.22 | japh | sure |
| 23:07.26 | Estel_ | japh, new as in sue din great condition |
| 23:07.38 | FIQ|n900 | my phone will break soon I believe |
| 23:07.49 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, remember about me selling N900's :D |
| 23:07.52 | Estel_ | with reinforced port ;) |
| 23:07.53 | japh | yes but I've bought a few this year and they're already getting harder to come by |
| 23:07.55 | FIQ|n900 | it's breaking apart right now |
| 23:07.59 | FIQ|n900 | yes |
| 23:08.06 | Estel_ | japh, not in off-line world of small shops |
| 23:08.14 | FIQ|n900 | and I do love the reinforced-usb part |
| 23:08.16 | Estel_ | but I agree that they're not produced anymore |
| 23:08.20 | japh | hmm what was that now again |
| 23:08.24 | FIQ|n900 | also |
| 23:08.28 | FIQ|n900 | this reminds me of... |
| 23:08.36 | FIQ|n900 | Newton |
| 23:08.37 | Estel_ | I wonder what Jolla will made for us |
| 23:08.50 | *** join/#maemo Hoolxi (~Openfree@120.204.160.116) |
| 23:08.52 | FIQ|n900 | @ people crawling out to get the n900s that are left |
| 23:08.53 | Estel_ | I'm afraid it may end up with keyboard less device, as they're Harmattan legacy |
| 23:08.57 | Estel_ | in love with N9 |
| 23:09.00 | FIQ|n900 | way after the last one is produced |
| 23:09.01 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you'll be disappointed with capacitive screen and "fanboys" phone |
| 23:09.14 | Estel_ | at best, I don't expect real screen digitizer, probably jsut capacitive one. But if rest will be ok |
| 23:09.28 | Estel_ | but maybe they will surprise us?:D |
| 23:09.46 | japh | I wonder how many deviced nokia could sell if they only let us people make one order. It seems like everyone wants n900/n950 and no one really wants n9 |
| 23:09.59 | FIQ|n900 | haha :p |
| 23:10.00 | Estel_ | honestly, i still belive, that one day, Community will go Rpi/openpandora way, i.e. doing open (as much as possible) hardware on it's own |
| 23:10.14 | FIQ|n900 | japh: doesn't openpandora do that? :P |
| 23:10.17 | japh | I saw there's an external keyboard thingy for n9 on sale now that'll 'transform your n9 to a n950' |
| 23:10.18 | Estel_ | japh, i'm sure some people would choose N9 too |
| 23:10.22 | FIQ|n900 | i.e. creates on order basis |
| 23:10.28 | Estel_ | the problem si that Nokia don't even like own N9 and 808 pureview :P |
| 23:10.38 | japh | estel_, some people yes but I don't think we who talk here would |
| 23:10.49 | ZogG_laptop | lol |
| 23:10.52 | Estel_ | japh, some would, look at zog ;P |
| 23:10.56 | ZogG_laptop | fanatism is the best way to go |
| 23:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | grabs the master_of_trolling medal and runs |
| 23:11.10 | Estel_ | japh, honestly, while N950 is grerat device, my N900 stil ldoes circles around it in terms of usability |
| 23:11.17 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: :D |
| 23:11.20 | Estel_ | ;P |
| 23:11.38 | japh | you are free to pick whatever you want of course, I'm just saying that in general we are not 'normal' customers or whatever they like to call it |
| 23:11.43 | Estel_ | maybe qwazix's work on bringing fremantle programs to N950 will help, but some flaws are unfixable |
| 23:11.47 | Estel_ | like alck of microSd slot |
| 23:11.49 | Estel_ | lack* |
| 23:11.51 | Estel_ | this damn screen |
| 23:12.02 | japh | estel_, so does mine but that's for my part 90% thanks to the stupid ui |
| 23:12.03 | Estel_ | well, lack of camera lens cover I can fix with custom body |
| 23:12.08 | Estel_ | same for fm transmitter, with enough will |
| 23:12.10 | japh | I'm never going to befriend it |
| 23:12.23 | Estel_ | japh, qwazix is working on bringing hildon ui to N950 |
| 23:12.30 | Estel_ | to harmattan, as whole |
| 23:12.36 | Estel_ | although, capacitive screen kills the fun |
| 23:12.41 | japh | how much $ would you need for fixing fm transmitter for me too? |
| 23:12.51 | Estel_ | japh, no chance for fixing it on board |
| 23:12.51 | japh | yeah I think I talked to him |
| 23:13.11 | Estel_ | I just think about custom body, with better space usage (N950 have much free space filled with aluminum) |
| 23:13.17 | japh | hmm |
| 23:13.34 | Estel_ | Well, for me, N900 with mugen cover thickness is fine, so making N950 thick as that, I could easidly put 7000mAh (real) battery there |
| 23:13.42 | Estel_ | and external FMTX module, cxonnected to audio out |
| 23:13.45 | japh | you got your n950 just the other day right? |
| 23:13.45 | Estel_ | with hardware switch |
| 23:13.52 | Estel_ | yea, week ago, even less |
| 23:14.00 | FIQ|n900 | Estel_: well, the point of N950 was N9 development |
| 23:14.05 | Estel_ | already dissasembled it as much as possible and assembled again |
| 23:14.08 | japh | I didn't think they gave away devices still |
| 23:14.15 | Estel_ | it's still alive :P |
| 23:14.15 | FIQ|n900 | so I guess it wouldn't make any sense to have a resistive screen |
| 23:14.22 | FIQ|n900 | from that PoV |
| 23:14.29 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, point of N950 was to be final product |
| 23:14.32 | Estel_ | later changed t2o N9 |
| 23:14.37 | Estel_ | with N950 batch as development |
| 23:14.39 | ZogG_laptop | japh: don't make too much hopes on that |
| 23:15.01 | japh | zogg_laptop, on what? |
| 23:15.09 | Estel_ | but you know? This game galaxy on fire they've shipped with pr1.2 is kinda fine ;) |
| 23:15.15 | Estel_ | suuure, every system looks the same |
| 23:15.17 | japh | I gave up getting n950 already when I heard about it :p |
| 23:15.21 | Estel_ | it isn't Elite frontier, after all |
| 23:15.26 | Estel_ | but surprised me positively |
| 23:15.47 | ZogG_laptop | japh: so you don't ahve n950 or n9? |
| 23:16.05 | FIQ|n900 | I would buy a n950 as n900 successor I guess |
| 23:16.09 | FIQ|n900 | if just it was *available* |
| 23:16.18 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, jolla will probably fix that, I think |
| 23:16.22 | FIQ|n900 | nokia really don't want my money lol |
| 23:16.34 | japh | zogg_laptop, no I have an n950, but I wasn't even looking for one, I was looking for buying a bunch of n900's when some random dude came along and offered me n950 |
| 23:16.36 | Estel_ | still, don't expect better situation with FOSS UI, than it was with N900 |
| 23:16.38 | Estel_ | probably worse |
| 23:16.43 | Estel_ | but, maybe they will surprise us,l as said |
| 23:16.50 | Estel_ | after all, it's Mer, and they submit patches to Nemo |
| 23:17.03 | Estel_ | Open UI would be great, great surprise |
| 23:17.12 | *** join/#maemo TabletEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:17.18 | Estel_ | all after all, as it's based on Mer core, Ui should be fully replaceable after all |
| 23:17.22 | FIQ|n900 | Estel_: I don't expect anything better than n900, it was the ideal phone when I got it for me |
| 23:17.29 | Estel_ | don't cheat ourselves, Mer is future of Open mobile, with jolla or without |
| 23:17.33 | japh | but with foss ui we can always *make* things better |
| 23:17.37 | FIQ|n900 | now it's a bit too old, but otherwise fine |
| 23:17.46 | Estel_ | japh, actually, with mer, even without foss ui we can replace it |
| 23:17.51 | japh | I don't think ... exactly |
| 23:17.53 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, for me, lack RAM only |
| 23:18.00 | Estel_ | things like hdmi out would be great, but still |
| 23:18.09 | Estel_ | y6et, I use it every day with much pleasure |
| 23:18.23 | FIQ|n900 | Estel_: I just want a n900 with better hardware :P |
| 23:18.32 | Estel_ | well, considering that Mer is real mobile linux, I'm optimistic about jolla thing |
| 23:18.37 | Estel_ | FIQ|n900, sure :P |
| 23:19.04 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: why do you want HDMI if you have serial port? |
| 23:19.05 | Estel_ | well, for someone willing to spen 1000 USD or so,it is hard, but possible, to get chip with 1GB ram, and solder it on infra red soldering station |
| 23:19.16 | Estel_ | got to wikipedia, and read what hdmi is |
| 23:19.24 | Estel_ | it's like comparing grapples to oranges |
| 23:19.59 | japh | what exactly is it that makes it - at least - take an effort to get good old fremantle going on the n950? Were things so damn hardware specific already from the start? |
| 23:20.12 | Estel_ | japh, sure, too closed |
| 23:20.24 | Estel_ | Cordia is effort to bring hildon ui on top of mer, but I doubt cordia will be ever in usable state |
| 23:20.41 | Estel_ | other than that. N950 hardware adaptation for Mer isn't finished, and msot likely, never will |
| 23:20.45 | Estel_ | things like GPs don't work |
| 23:20.49 | *** join/#maemo beford (~beford@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 23:20.51 | Estel_ | say hi to elop |
| 23:20.54 | japh | well what I really would want is, you know, X, and then I'm free to pick wm myself |
| 23:21.04 | beford | im not Elop |
| 23:21.09 | Estel_ | it was on it's way to be 100% hardware compatible, but february elopcalypse come |
| 23:21.14 | Estel_ | beford, haha |
| 23:21.16 | FIQ|n900 | beford: lol |
| 23:21.18 | FIQ|n900 | bad timing :P |
| 23:21.28 | Estel_ | made me literally lol |
| 23:21.47 | ZogG_laptop | if you put all ports and 3 usb and microsd and 3 sim cards and keybaord and ir and bigger battery and good video camera and more and more.... just buy a fucking laptop and good canon/nickon/what-evercamera |
| 23:22.11 | Estel_ | whatever rambling it is, I don't understand anything from this 3 liner sentence |
| 23:22.16 | Estel_ | sounds like rant, though |
| 23:22.19 | ZogG_laptop | you can't make everything in one piece and expect it to be portable and be best in everything |
| 23:22.32 | Estel_ | of course You can. ever heard about modularity? |
| 23:22.41 | Estel_ | when I wan't serial port, I carry with me usb -to-serial adaptor |
| 23:22.46 | Estel_ | in other situations, I don't |
| 23:22.55 | Estel_ | same for small, portable, travel keyboard |
| 23:22.58 | Estel_ | or mouse |
| 23:22.58 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can't replace good camera with phone! |
| 23:23.05 | Estel_ | yea? check 808 pureview |
| 23:23.08 | Estel_ | as for compact |
| 23:23.23 | Estel_ | as for DLSR, no one trioes to, as it wouldn't be too portable |
| 23:23.28 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it's not like 7D anyway =) |
| 23:23.33 | Estel_ | but no technical reasons preventing it |
| 23:23.36 | japh | this is also a problem that we doesn't share the very same needs :p |
| 23:23.37 | ZogG_laptop | that' the point |
| 23:23.44 | Estel_ | again, grapples and oranges |
| 23:23.53 | Estel_ | with mirrors in DLSR camera, it's technical constrain |
| 23:23.54 | ZogG_laptop | if you want good camera keep being camre without phone and opposite |
| 23:23.57 | japh | I don't want no camera. I want my vim running faster |
| 23:24.06 | Estel_ | in sitrruations You mention, it's flaw of stupid design decisions |
| 23:24.12 | Estel_ | physical again mental constraints |
| 23:24.13 | ZogG_laptop | japh: how vim can run slow on n900? |
| 23:24.14 | FIQ|n900 | i don't care about a camera |
| 23:24.17 | Estel_ | You're constrained mentally |
| 23:24.26 | FIQ|n900 | my n900 could have no camera at all |
| 23:24.27 | Estel_ | we talk about things perfectly possible physically |
| 23:24.32 | FIQ|n900 | I wouldn't complain |
| 23:24.43 | FIQ|n900 | the only part of the camera I use is the light :D |
| 23:24.44 | japh | zogg_laptop, not sure how to answer that, except that the culprit is its syntax hl |
| 23:24.45 | ZogG_laptop | FIQ|n900: Estel_ the camera is example. if you want something professional it can;t be combine |
| 23:24.58 | Estel_ | very bad example, as it's physical constraint |
| 23:25.03 | Estel_ | where mobile computer is mental one |
| 23:25.06 | japh | fiq|n900, heh that's true - that have been really useful |
| 23:25.10 | Estel_ | no physical constraints to make it mobile computer |
| 23:25.30 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: battery is physical. ports is physical, chips and modules is physical |
| 23:25.31 | Estel_ | it's just about design decisions, every required bits are available and possible |
| 23:25.37 | Estel_ | wrong, as always |
| 23:25.44 | ZogG_laptop | enlight me |
| 23:25.48 | Estel_ | I can put bigger battery if I want, but no one forces me |
| 23:25.58 | Estel_ | I can carry with me usb-to-whatever adaptors, but again, not required |
| 23:26.12 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: bigger battery is bigger size. you talked about carrying desktop around before, right? |
| 23:26.16 | Estel_ | every thing needed to make it 99,99% as usable as desktrop computer i s physically possible without making it behemor |
| 23:26.19 | Estel_ | behemot* |
| 23:26.27 | GeneralAntilles | Wrong is clearly the incorrect word to be using. |
| 23:26.28 | Estel_ | for DLSR camera, it's simply matter of mirrors and big space required |
| 23:26.32 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can use usb to anything with n9/n950/android or anything |
| 23:26.33 | GeneralAntilles | Business decisions are what's involved. |
| 23:26.54 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:26.59 | Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, sure, but not alwys. lack of microSd on N9 and N950 is hardly business decision |
| 23:27.01 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: not anything but you can patch kernel and make drivers |
| 23:27.08 | Estel_ | unless every design decision is business decision too |
| 23:27.19 | Estel_ | ZogG, sure. But for hdmi, I can't |
| 23:27.21 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: 64 gb phone is enuf. |
| 23:27.26 | Estel_ | before You ask, no, You can't do usb -> hdmi |
| 23:27.36 | Estel_ | ZogG, 512 kb ram is enough |
| 23:27.40 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: hdmi reqieres place. and yes it's pitty we don't ahve it |
| 23:27.42 | Estel_ | I said You're typical windows user ;) |
| 23:28.03 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: man, just stop being personal!!!!! |
| 23:28.04 | Estel_ | we don't lack available place. |
| 23:28.08 | Estel_ | it's no personal |
| 23:28.18 | Estel_ | it's about You putting constraints on mentality |
| 23:28.18 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: what distro u use? |
| 23:28.22 | Estel_ | who Yuo are to decide that overpriced 64 GB N9 is enough? |
| 23:28.28 | Estel_ | 15 years ago 512 kb RAM was enough for gates |
| 23:28.35 | nox- | 640 k |
| 23:28.38 | ZogG_laptop | let's just get over with measuring pineses if you want |
| 23:28.40 | Estel_ | "no one will ever need more than 512 kb of RAM" |
| 23:28.43 | japh | in the meantime we can get 64*16 n900 |
| 23:28.44 | japh | blargh |
| 23:28.47 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: what distro do you use? |
| 23:28.53 | japh | hmm. :) 64+16 |
| 23:29.06 | Estel_ | japh, on N900, we can use SDXC too |
| 23:29.09 | Estel_ | 32GB internaL |
| 23:29.12 | Estel_ | + whatever card size |
| 23:29.20 | Estel_ | SDXC is up to 2000 GB IIRC ;) |
| 23:29.22 | japh | oh fuck is it 32 internal? :D I forgot |
| 23:29.25 | Estel_ | yea |
| 23:29.35 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: but do you really use all this space? |
| 23:29.50 | Estel_ | well, bill gates said that no one will ever need 512 kb of ram ever, and now zog tell us that we don't need more than 64gb in overpriced N9 |
| 23:29.54 | Estel_ | sure |
| 23:29.56 | japh | I do not *now* but the n9 was filled up instantly |
| 23:30.00 | japh | n950* |
| 23:30.01 | ZogG_laptop | for few movies and for music and data it's enuf |
| 23:30.04 | Estel_ | N950 is 16 GB |
| 23:30.22 | Estel_ | it's "enuf" for You, which doesn't mean it's good design decisions objectively |
| 23:30.33 | Estel_ | it's again about beinbg mentally constrained |
| 23:30.39 | Estel_ | no loss in putting damn microSd slot there |
| 23:30.46 | GeneralAntilles | Costs money |
| 23:30.49 | GeneralAntilles | Adds to support costs |
| 23:30.52 | Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, seriously |
| 23:30.54 | GeneralAntilles | Changes your software implementation. |
| 23:30.58 | ZogG_laptop | japh: i have 64 gb n9 and i have enuf place for few movies and music and personal data. and i don't make movie collection or music collection on phone. i simply put what i will use in near future |
| 23:31.06 | japh | what are the choices if I'd want to extended the storage for the n950? stick + usb adapter? :/ |
| 23:31.06 | Estel_ | you know as good as me, that microSd slot is neglible cost, considering software support too |
| 23:31.12 | *** join/#maemo TabletEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:31.14 | Estel_ | japh, yea |
| 23:31.17 | GeneralAntilles | No, actually, it's not. |
| 23:31.31 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: so you ignored my question, what linux do you use? if you call me windows user (as it can be something bad actually) |
| 23:31.32 | Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, for whole device designing costs? |
| 23:31.57 | Estel_ | lol, I couldn't find revelance, but, whatever. I use Debian, aptosid, ubuntu, LinuxCNC, MAemo... ;) |
| 23:32.02 | Estel_ | also, windows XP, when needed |
| 23:32.12 | Estel_ | now, how is it rellevant to You thinking like gates did? |
| 23:32.17 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: debian ok, UBUNTU? and you call me windows user? |
| 23:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | uSD holder is cheap, uSD interface is a PITA sometimes |
| 23:32.18 | beford | ew windows |
| 23:32.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | it gave us glamo, on GTA02 |
| 23:32.29 | Estel_ | zog, Your ignorance is showing as always |
| 23:32.37 | Estel_ | ubuntu with unity kicked off and LXDe, for example |
| 23:32.37 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: gates thought of making business and he succeeded |
| 23:32.41 | Estel_ | is quite comparable to debian |
| 23:32.57 | Estel_ | thats why people like freemangordon worked on ubuntu for N900 |
| 23:33.11 | Estel_ | zog, north korean leader also suceed. Or chinbese ones. |
| 23:33.12 | japh | estel_, you live in ... poland? |
| 23:33.16 | Estel_ | which doesn't mean it's justified. |
| 23:33.19 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i'm gentoo user for past ± 7 years. so don't teach me please =) |
| 23:33.20 | Estel_ | japh, yea ;) |
| 23:33.27 | japh | aha. |
| 23:33.43 | Estel_ | zog, still you're ignorant |
| 23:33.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | what a trollfest |
| 23:33.52 | Estel_ | like arguing that ubuntu is < or > than other distro, lol |
| 23:34.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves at GeneralAntilles |
| 23:34.11 | Estel_ | it's like "my e-penis" is longer than Your" |
| 23:34.23 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can call me whatever, we had arguments before and majority decided already not once who is just about "talking" |
| 23:34.25 | GeneralAntilles | What's new, DocScrutinizer05? |
| 23:34.33 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, uSd interface is pita, but for company like Nokia designing device,m You agree that it's hardly roadblock? |
| 23:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | job eating me |
| 23:34.53 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you started by assuming something. i just went down to your level =) |
| 23:35.04 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, employment is good, though, right? |
| 23:35.06 | Estel_ | zog, majority seems to not care about Your capacitive screens or whatever fanboyism. we're discussing here, in civilized way, you're the only one shouting and trolling around ;) |
| 23:35.23 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it's again your opinion |
| 23:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: depends, probably they would have had the 2ndry function on SoC free for mmc interface |
| 23:35.27 | Estel_ | if You don't liek to continue this discussion, simply leave zog, we won't miss You much |
| 23:35.28 | ZogG_laptop | and your opinion is only yours |
| 23:35.42 | Estel_ | and Your e-penis is still longer?;) |
| 23:35.47 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i prefer #maemo when how it was way before you actually =) |
| 23:35.51 | Estel_ | whatever, EOT :) |
| 23:36.14 | Estel_ | You were mostly unknown, before post-CA drama, so it's still pointless discussion |
| 23:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: atm it feels like I'm going to continue tomorrow where I left here |
| 23:36.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 23:36.33 | GeneralAntilles | Nix the ad hominems, please. |
| 23:36.39 | Estel_ | japh, how do you knew about country?:) |
| 23:36.40 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: if you didn't know me it doesn't mean anything =) |
| 23:36.49 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, debate is stimulating to the brain. ;) |
| 23:36.54 | Estel_ | sure, nice for You. EOT, yes? |
| 23:37.08 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: FYITA? |
| 23:37.15 | Estel_ | japh, still here? |
| 23:37.32 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I've heard you're also optimistic about Jolla |
| 23:37.43 | beford | slashdot is getting really slow to catch news |
| 23:37.52 | Estel_ | slashdot is passe ;) |
| 23:37.54 | japh | estel_, your name looked like it couldv'e origin from there somewhere |
| 23:38.01 | japh | (I'm half czech) |
| 23:38.02 | ZogG_laptop | you are just full of sht and talking a lot, and doing nothing. simple as that. at least finish your N900 cover mod before asking for money and than talk. =) |
| 23:38.04 | Estel_ | ah, I see :) |
| 23:38.25 | ZogG_laptop | good that u see |
| 23:38.31 | ZogG_laptop | talking and watching? |
| 23:38.34 | ZogG_laptop | something new |
| 23:38.38 | Estel_ | lol, troll fest? |
| 23:38.45 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: and you are the winner |
| 23:38.48 | Estel_ | You know that i'm talking with japh, don't stick you e-penis to our discussion :) |
| 23:39.07 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: please tell 5 mre times "e-penis" |
| 23:39.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: I'm just worrying about my neck: 60 minutes phone congerence, with a normal phone and typing on keyboard during that |
| 23:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | conference even |
| 23:39.26 | Estel_ | Well, i'm going to maintain my projects the way I like it, and nice people arer supporting - also via donations and preoprders - it much. It seems to me, that you're little offensive vs allo people involved in custom body project for N900 |
| 23:39.36 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, go buy a headset. |
| 23:39.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponders taking gaffa tape with hin |
| 23:39.45 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: right, scams are scams =) |
| 23:40.01 | GeneralAntilles | Both of you shut up and move on. |
| 23:40.13 | Estel_ | well, kinda miserably pathetic from your side - attacking someone's project, cause Your troll ego "lost" capacitive screen/mobile computers feature discussion |
| 23:40.16 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: want to buy mega app for only 500$ that would enlarge your e-penis? |
| 23:40.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: I got several headsets, but the phone has no receptacle ;-P |
| 23:40.20 | Estel_ | not to mention that it's comparing grapples to oranges... |
| 23:40.29 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, ah, one of those. Oops. |
| 23:40.38 | Estel_ | but accusing someone of scam just for the fun of it is kind aout of line, even for miserable childish troll like You. |
| 23:40.51 | GeneralAntilles | Last warning Estel_ and ZogG_laptop. |
| 23:40.58 | Estel_ | I suggest You to get some deep breaths, and go for a walk |
| 23:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, ow the fun starts :-D |
| 23:41.08 | ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i didn't lose. i had my opinion. but you was fanatic. and even better i win. coz most today phones have capacitive screen |
| 23:41.35 | Estel_ | well, I think this miserable quotation ends this discussion? :D |
| 23:42.24 | Estel_ | It would be act of mercy to actually respond more - everyone saw enough to judge on it's own. |
| 23:42.29 | ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: i'll just continue watching tv-show. i just couldn't stay aside with fanatic arguments and when someone turns in personal labeling. sorry |
| 23:42.46 | Estel_ | I wish You startiong, one day, a project that will gather people support, including monetary one. After all, it's all about contributing to Community |
| 23:43.02 | GeneralAntilles | Trolling is an activity which thrives on attention. |
| 23:43.30 | Estel_ | You have my guarantee, that I won't accuse You of scam just for the fun of it, or because I don't like your style of writing/arguments/whatever ;) |
| 23:43.33 | Estel_ | Good night and have fun |
| 23:44.04 | Estel_ | japh, continuing our (more productive) discussion, we must meet on beer one day :D |
| 23:45.03 | japh | estel_, heh that could be sooner than you'd think |
| 23:45.12 | Estel_ | why, visiting Poland soon? |
| 23:46.07 | japh | I'm going to czech in october with my parents and they've decided to stay for little over a month - in the meantime I've a few conferences to attend but then I'll likely be bored |
| 23:46.09 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@2001:16d8:ddb3:21:f1db:cc8c:2039:7be3) |
| 23:46.26 | Estel_ | ah, I see, so you don't live there everyday? |
| 23:46.34 | japh | oh no, I live in sweden |
| 23:48.21 | japh | 5 billion options for firefox's ./configure |
| 23:48.23 | Estel_ | I see. Well, my love interest travels to Czech republic from time to time, due to studies and work |
| 23:48.28 | Estel_ | lol |
| 23:48.32 | japh | I'm going to be pissed if this doesn't compile on first try :p |
| 23:48.42 | Estel_ | ./configure hell |
| 23:49.19 | japh | I'm awfuly bad at where places and countries are relative to eachother, I just now that poland is down there somewhere not too far away |
| 23:49.22 | japh | right? |
| 23:49.30 | japh | know, even |
| 23:50.53 | *** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~robbiethe@50-52-29-84.cral.id.frontiernet.net) |
| 23:53.08 | Estel_ | yes, it's little to the northeast |
| 23:53.11 | Estel_ | more north than east |
| 23:53.35 | Estel_ | have border with czech republic |
| 23:54.09 | Estel_ | and don't worry, i'm equally bad at describing countries surrounding sweden ;) |
| 23:55.09 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.141) |
| 23:56.19 | LaoLang_cool | hello, how to move the cursor with keyboard in busybox? doesn't it support readline feature, for example, <ESC>b move backward one word |
| 23:59.31 | robbiethe1st | left/right arrow key? |
| 23:59.32 | japh | estel_, hehe great :) |
| 23:59.42 | japh | laolang_cool, no, grab bash and make yourself an inputrc |
