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| 00:28.28 | Pucho | hello I just got my N900 but I need help please. |
| 00:29.59 | ShadowJK | people asleep, not mindreaders |
| 00:30.55 | Pucho | How do I get to command line Interface and be root? Beacuse when trying to install anything in my mobile n900 it always showing an error message unable to install!! |
| 00:31.20 | RiD | Pucho: new purchaser? |
| 00:31.41 | RiD | s/purchaser/purchase |
| 00:31.45 | RiD | fu |
| 00:31.47 | RiD | s/purchaser/purchase/ |
| 00:31.50 | Pucho | I purchase my N900 used from ebay. |
| 00:31.55 | RiD | ah well i'm dumb today |
| 00:32.04 | RiD | I see. well, did you flash it first? |
| 00:32.09 | ShadowJK | On an otherwise functional N900; Command line interface: X-terminal is preinstalled. Root: install rootsh from application manager, then type "root" in x-terminal |
| 00:32.10 | RiD | or was it already flashed? |
| 00:32.27 | Pucho | There is an app called x terminal, can I just type SUDO to become root? |
| 00:32.29 | ShadowJK | If the previous owner has messed it up, no idea :) |
| 00:32.46 | ShadowJK | No it needs the "rootsh" app |
| 00:32.47 | Pucho | I never flashed this device, I just started using it out of the box |
| 00:33.04 | ShadowJK | atleast I think it was called rootsh |
| 00:33.15 | Pucho | what is rootsh, sorry I am new |
| 00:33.18 | RiD | ok. if it has leftovers i recommend you to flash |
| 00:33.39 | ShadowJK | yep, it is "rootsh" |
| 00:33.56 | Pucho | The unit was working fine after I received it, but now it cannot install or update apps |
| 00:33.56 | RiD | you want to use the commandline and dont know what is root? |
| 00:34.07 | RiD | nvm i read it wrong* |
| 00:34.13 | ShadowJK | rootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -") |
| 00:34.29 | Pucho | After receiving the unit, I installed many apps just to test the n900 |
| 00:34.52 | ShadowJK | Probably either the emmc, /home or / are full or corrupt, my guess |
| 00:34.53 | RiD | lol |
| 00:35.01 | RiD | with extras-devel on? |
| 00:35.03 | Pucho | when rootsh is typed in CLI, the response is -sh rootsh: not found |
| 00:35.14 | ShadowJK | You don't have "rootsh" installed then. |
| 00:35.43 | Pucho | I did not install anything from extras-devel repository, only from install apps manager on the N900 itself |
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| 00:37.15 | RiD | yes, but the app manager may have the extras devel catalog on |
| 00:37.19 | RiD | check under catalogs |
| 00:38.59 | Pucho | App mgr catalogs are: nokia apps, Nokia Sys Software Update, Ovi and maemo.org |
| 00:39.28 | ShadowJK | Either way, I would not waste time trying to repair software problems the previous onwer has caused |
| 00:39.49 | Pucho | Maemo.org repo URL is repository.maemo.org/extras |
| 00:41.05 | ShadowJK | Of course the other possibility is that the hw is damaged in some areas |
| 00:41.20 | Pucho | That might be true. |
| 00:41.33 | Pucho | is this a common problem w/ n900 Hw? |
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| 00:42.27 | ShadowJK | Most common issues are broken usb port, second most common is dead/dying/malfunctioning modem |
| 00:42.38 | ShadowJK | so it's not common |
| 00:42.46 | RiD | the usb port scares me everyday |
| 00:43.04 | RiD | feels so loose |
| 00:43.12 | RiD | not compared at all when it was new |
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| 00:43.19 | Pucho | ok |
| 00:43.29 | RiD | i have had a few heart attacks where i thought my usb port died |
| 00:43.52 | ShadowJK | I've accidentally hung this N900 from charger cable 3 times now, and dropped it on floor once. No problems |
| 00:44.02 | RiD | .... |
| 00:44.08 | RiD | runs |
| 00:44.12 | ShadowJK | :) |
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| 00:44.19 | RiD | do it a 4th |
| 00:44.28 | RiD | i only dropped my phone on 6cm |
| 00:44.31 | ShadowJK | no. :) |
| 00:44.38 | RiD | shiny wood |
| 00:44.49 | ShadowJK | Mine fell from hip height onto concrete floor |
| 00:45.16 | ShadowJK | back cover and battery separated from it |
| 00:45.16 | Pucho | What is default root password on n900? I am trying to run sudo command on n900 |
| 00:45.30 | ShadowJK | There is no root password |
| 00:46.49 | ShadowJK | Though when you install openssh-server, you get asked to create a root password. Other than that, root (and user) password doesn't exist |
| 00:47.37 | Pucho | Thank U. every time the following cmmd is run: "sudo dpkg --configure -a", the console asks for password |
| 00:47.48 | RiD | ShadowJK: that made my cry |
| 00:47.50 | ShadowJK | The default sudo config gives user 0 permissions, pretty much :) |
| 00:48.15 | Pucho | using terminal how can the user become root? |
| 00:48.32 | Pucho | I mean become superuser |
| 00:48.32 | RiD | sudo gainroot |
| 00:48.41 | ShadowJK | Without ever using app manager? No ways |
| 00:49.28 | Pucho | what do you mean? Plz explain. App Mgr is not working correctly. It says no apps are installed. |
| 00:50.10 | Pucho | When "sudo gainroot" is run, the response is "Enable RD mode if U want 2 break Ur device. |
| 00:50.23 | ShadowJK | I mean what I said. The path to become root: Start app manager, install rootsh, start xterminal, type "root" in xterminal |
| 00:51.40 | Pucho | Thank U. Unfortunately App Mgr cannot install anything. I am trying to get App Mrg working again. There were some helpful posts in Maemo forum but they require root access. |
| 00:51.47 | ShadowJK | If previous owner has broken stuff, then reflash. |
| 00:52.10 | Pucho | ok |
| 00:52.32 | ShadowJK | without root you can probably still access 'dmesg' to check for serious problems |
| 00:52.48 | ShadowJK | and df -h to check free space |
| 00:52.56 | zeq | sounds like full rootfs |
| 00:53.05 | ShadowJK | could be |
| 00:53.37 | zeq | cssu-thumb would help ;) |
| 00:53.46 | ShadowJK | zeq: I bet it will take 4 hours to get him to paste output of df -h, though |
| 00:54.08 | ShadowJK | zeq: not without reflash first, surely? :) |
| 00:54.16 | ShadowJK | goes sleep |
| 00:54.33 | zeq | probably not. app manager really could do with a recovery option... |
| 00:54.43 | Pucho | rootfs usage is 64% |
| 00:55.02 | ShadowJK | App repository could really do with a optification check. :) |
| 00:55.29 | zeq | Pucho: without root, you're probably not going to be able to fix it, so your only recourse is probably reflashing |
| 00:55.30 | ShadowJK | /home ? |
| 00:55.44 | ShadowJK | yeah agreed |
| 00:56.11 | ShadowJK | Also it's just sensible to start from clean install when you get secondhand n900 |
| 00:56.21 | RiD | ^ |
| 00:56.23 | zeq | I'm off to sleep myself now too... |
| 00:56.23 | Pucho | ok |
| 00:56.28 | Pucho | thank u |
| 00:57.10 | ShadowJK | makes second attempt at stop irc and begin sleep.. curse this n900, irc in bed is evil |
| 00:57.15 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 00:58.32 | zeq | freemangordon: linaro-4.6-2012.7 has built qt okay. I've also patched it for 4.7, enabling 4.7 to be used for building apps against it. |
| 00:58.45 | zeq | knows what ShadowJK means |
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| 01:01.12 | jon_y | zeq: what is cssu-thumb? |
| 01:01.15 | jon_y | ~cssu-thumb |
| 01:01.36 | jon_y | infobot: ~cssu-thumb |
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| 01:01.59 | RiD | infobot is dead |
| 01:02.04 | RiD | dumb bot |
| 01:02.07 | jon_y | ok, nvm, google told me about cssu-thumb |
| 01:02.08 | RiD | see? |
| 01:02.36 | jon_y | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829 |
| 01:02.39 | jon_y | this one? |
| 01:03.28 | jon_y | a special kernel (kernel-cssu) based on top of kernel-power 50 |
| 01:03.32 | jon_y | Sweet |
| 01:04.08 | jon_y | does not work on n900 being the High Secure device |
| 01:04.16 | jon_y | aw so close |
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| 01:08.55 | jon_y | zeq: does thumb2 kernel require all userland to be thumb2 also? |
| 01:09.20 | jon_y | or is it more like sse/sse2 on the desktop? |
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| 06:26.17 | jonwil | kerio: ping |
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| 07:37.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rootsh is <reply><ShadowJK> rootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -") |
| 07:37.31 | infobot | ...but rootsh is already something else... |
| 07:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rootsh |
| 07:37.52 | infobot | it has been said that rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/, or http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ |
| 07:38.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rootsh is also <ShadowJK> rootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -") |
| 07:38.45 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
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| 07:43.44 | kerio | jon_y: thumb2 is an instruction set, the cortex A8 could run stuff with that instruction set, but there are some hardware problems that have to be worked around, in the kernel and in the linker |
| 07:44.10 | kerio | if you have the workaround in the kernel, and your linker is new enough, you can run thumb2 binaries with no problem |
| 07:44.50 | *** join/#maemo ShadowX (~l4m3rx@darknet.escom.bg) |
| 07:45.14 | kerio | (except that the workaround for it requires doing something that causes a bit of performance loss) |
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| 07:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, it's definitely no solution for crammed rootfs |
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| 08:09.51 | jon_y | kerio: what kind of loss? |
| 08:12.43 | Hurrian | jon_y, "and also flushes the branch target cache at every context switch." |
| 08:13.27 | Hurrian | it doesn't seem like a big performance hit, and the reduced size of thumb binaries weighs it out |
| 08:14.57 | jon_y | ok, don't thread on thumb2 |
| 08:15.06 | jon_y | got it :) |
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| 08:19.36 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: optify *all* the things! _ò/ |
| 08:20.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: eh? |
| 08:21.08 | jon_y | cool, can I have optified Perl too? :) |
| 08:21.21 | jon_y | 5.16 please |
| 08:22.01 | jon_y | well, I had ln -sv /opt/stuff /usr/local now |
| 08:22.06 | jon_y | works well enough |
| 08:22.50 | jon_y | sometimes, apps are too clever for their own good and this fails |
| 08:24.13 | kerio | python has a ton of bindmounts for that |
| 08:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah >:-( |
| 08:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | spamming my mount |
| 08:26.13 | kerio | bindmounts are grrrrrrreat! |
| 08:26.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's about time to get a smarter ,ount command, that filters output |
| 08:27.19 | kerio | mount | grep -v bind |
| 08:27.23 | kerio | :) |
| 08:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kinda |
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| 08:38.33 | trumee | is it possible to find out how much warranty is left on my N900? |
| 08:38.52 | trumee | i have lost the proof of purchase :( |
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| 08:46.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it's getting difficult |
| 08:46.40 | zeq | trumee: unless you're prepared for a battle (to get a replacement or more likely demand a refund) the warranty is pretty worthless. Nokia doesn't care about N900 customers. :( That said, I've never needed proof of purchase at a Nokia Care Centre, as long as your phone isn't reported stolen you should be okay. |
| 08:47.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia has a webpage to check based on serial#, but I doubt that is accurate for devices sold late |
| 08:47.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | also what zeq said |
| 08:50.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: generally I think there's nokia warranty and there's legal warranty. Both are unrelated. You claim your legal warranty at your shop/seller, based on whatever the laws in your country. Independently Nokia offered a 2(?) year manufacturer guarantee, which is basically void by now I'd say |
| 08:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | sellers tend to send their customers to manufacturer for claiming warranty. They MUSTN'T |
| 08:52.15 | jon_y | btw, anybody know where the sdcard automounter script is located at? |
| 08:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 08:52.29 | jon_y | I'd like to use ext3 card |
| 08:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | get CSSU |
| 08:52.53 | jon_y | how is it related to cssu? |
| 08:53.08 | jon_y | iirc atm it wants vfat and only vfat mmc1 |
| 08:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, CSSU has a vastly improved "automounter" |
| 08:53.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | that mounts wirtually *all* |
| 08:53.48 | jon_y | I have cssu enabled, how do I find out if the cssu automounter is working? |
| 08:54.39 | jon_y | ah, I see my alternate easy debian partition |
| 08:54.43 | trumee | zeq: is it expensive to replace the usb port at Nokia Care centre? |
| 08:54.45 | jon_y | looks like its already working |
| 08:55.01 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: thanks so much for working on cssu |
| 08:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 08:55.24 | zeq | trumee: that's something they won't do. There are people who will, or you can DIY |
| 08:55.36 | trumee | i am a bit wary of walking into a local phone shop who has never seen an N900 before |
| 08:56.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: get photo printouts of |
| 08:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~usbfix |
| 08:56.16 | infobot | i heard usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) |
| 08:56.43 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: i dont have the tools to replace the usb port |
| 08:56.45 | zeq | trumee: it's good to be wary. unless you know they're good, I wouldn't trust a random local phone repairer. |
| 08:57.07 | trumee | my phone only charges using the computer these days. |
| 08:57.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you have a printer? then take a paper with the photos to your local repair shoppee |
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| 08:57.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: that's highly unlikely any USB receptacle problem |
| 08:57.58 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: i have reflashed it, it is not a software issue |
| 08:58.02 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: btw, a side effect of all visible partitions is that the tracker will look through ALL of them |
| 08:58.25 | jon_y | kind of painful if you have a large easy debian install |
| 08:58.25 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: o/ |
| 08:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: sounds like a flaw in tracker conf. We might need to address it in CSSU |
| 08:58.52 | jon_y | well, iirc there is a built in list of places to track already |
| 08:58.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: but you can tweak tracker settings easily yourself |
| 08:59.06 | jon_y | so I just added "/" to the exclude list and redo the index |
| 08:59.16 | jon_y | turns out it works properly |
| 08:59.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | kinda |
| 08:59.17 | vi_ | jon_y: Install the trackercfg application |
| 08:59.29 | jon_y | I will do that, thanks |
| 08:59.46 | vi_ | jon_y: It makes changing tracker ignore folders etc nice and easy |
| 08:59.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | you already got cssu, iirc it also has a fixed trackerd which actually _obeys_ the blacklists ;-) |
| 09:00.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | stock trackerd has a bug there |
| 09:00.18 | jon_y | I was wondering why an extra entry showed up in the file browser util after a cssu update :) |
| 09:00.32 | jon_y | just reflashed the n900 |
| 09:00.33 | vi_ | also, contrary to popular belief do not turn on 'low memory mode' or throttling. |
| 09:00.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, not? |
| 09:01.02 | vi_ | Let tracker do it's thing quickly and be done with it. |
| 09:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | throttling seems fine here |
| 09:01.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I forbid tracker to index when on battery |
| 09:01.36 | vi_ | Throttling DOES work, however it takes longer for tracker to finish. |
| 09:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | feck tracker |
| 09:03.08 | vi_ | I want to install openmode kernel on my n950 |
| 09:03.35 | trumee | is it possible to get imei via xterm? |
| 09:03.36 | vi_ | Do I only flash the kernel or do I need to flash the emmc etc as well? |
| 09:03.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | a concept designed for >2GHz >1GB RAM desktop PCs, brought to embedded as a fake alternative filesystem |
| 09:03.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: yes |
| 09:04.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: e.g with pnatd |
| 09:04.10 | vi_ | trumee: Yes, there is a dbus call. SOmething else as well, cannot remember the name. |
| 09:04.20 | jon_y | also, any util to disable the update apt db on internet connection? |
| 09:04.37 | jon_y | its annoying to find out you can't use apt right after connecting to wifi |
| 09:04.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and sth like AT+CMGR or whatever the cmd |
| 09:05.06 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM Phone.Sim.get_imsi ? |
| 09:05.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good |
| 09:05.31 | vi_ | jon_y: gconftool -s --type int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 9999999 |
| 09:05.40 | jon_y | cool, thanks |
| 09:05.49 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: nope this one, dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei |
| 09:06.15 | vi_ | sets check interval to like 30 years or something. |
| 09:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: that's insane |
| 09:06.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't wanna do that |
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| 09:07.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | though 9999999 isn't exactly 30 years and mostly fine |
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| 09:07.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I added some caveats to the wiki entry in "customizing" |
| 09:08.29 | jon_y | I'll run update when I want to :) |
| 09:08.43 | vi_ | ERROR: APE algorithm has to be provided to flash all the subimages |
| 09:08.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | which boils down to "1 year in seconds is fine, using MAXINT is going to mess up things" |
| 09:09.03 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: it was hyperbole. It is not really 30 years. |
| 09:09.09 | jon_y | btw, updating cssu should still be done in the Application Manager? |
| 09:09.16 | vi_ | jon_y: YES! |
| 09:09.25 | vi_ | despite what some people say |
| 09:09.29 | jon_y | good yes, I'll need to remember that |
| 09:09.51 | jon_y | apt-get for everything else |
| 09:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU does NOT support, and *deprecates*, fapman |
| 09:10.39 | jon_y | the other application manager? |
| 09:10.46 | jon_y | Fast Application Manager? |
| 09:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | using apt-get should be mostly safe on CSSU, as long as you don't do autoremove |
| 09:11.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and better stay away from dist-upgrade (and maybe also upgrade) |
| 09:11.33 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: can you point me to somthing that will tell me how to flash open mode kernel on my n950? |
| 09:11.35 | jon_y | what will go wrong with upgrade and dist-upgrade? |
| 09:11.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: commonly (formerly) known as fapman |
| 09:11.56 | jon_y | ok |
| 09:12.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: a mini-howto on my server |
| 09:12.11 | jon_y | vi_: I want one too :| |
| 09:12.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: ask in #harmattan |
| 09:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~openmode |
| 09:12.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 09:12.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys openmode |
| 09:12.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues openmode |
| 09:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~aegis-no-thanks |
| 09:13.17 | infobot | well, aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/, or http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/1.2/openmode-kernel/ |
| 09:14.46 | vi_ | I have the kernel, however I cannot seem to flash the sucker. |
| 09:15.01 | vi_ | flasher -k ./zImage-2.6.32.39-dfl61-20113701 --flash-only=kernel -f -R |
| 09:15.05 | vi_ | does not work. |
| 09:15.17 | vi_ | it says: |
| 09:15.31 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 09:15.45 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: meh, tracker behaves decently now that i told it to only index a couple of directories |
| 09:16.22 | kerio | also, the automounter means that i can't easily unmount from h-e-n :( |
| 09:16.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | this will stop as soon as you got 20GB of mp3 on your MyDocs ;-P |
| 09:16.43 | kerio | i've got 16 |
| 09:16.54 | trumee | uggh, http://www.nokiawarranty.co.uk/index.html quoted 75 pounds to replace usb port |
| 09:16.59 | kerio | mixed mp3/aac in m4a |
| 09:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: that sounds quite reasonable |
| 09:17.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I doubt they'll keep this offer though |
| 09:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | most likely obsolete |
| 09:18.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | if not, please let us all know |
| 09:18.42 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah (~Dibblah@host86-136-238-9.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: but again, if your device is charging from PC, then your USB *IS* ok |
| 09:19.16 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: why does it fail from the wall charger? |
| 09:19.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | your wallcharger defect? |
| 09:19.32 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: ERROR: APE algorithm has to be provided to flash all the subimages |
| 09:19.41 | vi_ | ^DAFUQ this means? |
| 09:19.43 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to forcibly enable all buttons in h-e-n? it would be useful if i'm using an external power source |
| 09:19.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: ask in #harmattan, known problem with newer NOLOs |
| 09:19.57 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: no it charges my second N900 fine |
| 09:20.16 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: but they are a flock of dicks. |
| 09:20.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's "they"? |
| 09:21.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no |
| 09:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: use scripts & xterm |
| 09:21.45 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:22.10 | trumee | damn cant find any website for a shop in london |
| 09:22.42 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: k :( |
| 09:22.49 | jonwil | hi |
| 09:23.18 | kerio | ~hen |
| 09:23.18 | infobot | do ~hostmode and ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/ |
| 09:23.26 | kerio | k |
| 09:23.48 | kerio | infobot: oh you |
| 09:23.49 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, infobot is me, http://infobot.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/infobot/ // The original infobot is no more, it has been replaced by the latest version of blootbot, accompanied by a rename back to infobot // apt/ibot/infobot/purl is now an infobot run by TimRiker |
| 09:25.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell kerio about hostmode-powered |
| 09:25.50 | jon_y | ~hostmode-powered |
| 09:25.50 | infobot | i heard hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 |
| 09:27.04 | jon_y | ~charger |
| 09:27.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the thing is, it doesn't really work for stuff that requires more than vboost can provide to work |
| 09:27.33 | jonwil | kerio: ping |
| 09:27.38 | kerio | pong! |
| 09:28.13 | jonwil | You were asking about hildon-welcome before? |
| 09:28.17 | jonwil | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/h/hildon-welcome/ looks like the code for it |
| 09:28.49 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: for those, i just dick around randomly until it works :) |
| 09:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: then connect the Y-cable to N900 *after* you've hit "VBoost" |
| 09:30.31 | jonwil | although I think you were actually thinking of osso-startup-wizard as the one that runs the first time you power up the phone :) |
| 09:31.53 | jonwil | Anyone know who has been doing work on alternate kernels for Maemo5 and/or on improving the WiFi driver? |
| 09:37.34 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 09:38.40 | *** join/#maemo Hoolxi (~Openfree@120.204.162.1) |
| 09:40.05 | vi_ | Is there no way to flash this thing without using that bloody navifirm program to steal firmwares from nokia servers. |
| 09:40.09 | vi_ | ? |
| 09:42.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: alternative kernels: mainly Kernel-Power, now pali's domain. WiFi drivers: lxp? |
| 09:43.31 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@81-174-24-81.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 09:43.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: no, but still that's #harmattan topic |
| 09:43.53 | jonwil | ok |
| 09:44.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: since otherwise my answer should've been "What? use flasher-3.5, see ~flashing!" |
| 09:47.45 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: w00t! I have PERMANENTLY invalidated my warrenty! |
| 09:48.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | you've been warned, haven't you? |
| 09:49.10 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: oooh. yes. |
| 09:49.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: still a #harmattan topic, but I think it's reversible nevertheless |
| 09:53.31 | jonwil | ~seen lxp |
| 09:53.33 | infobot | lxp is currently on #maemo (19h 57m 53s), last said: 'i am personally using a version of the driver based on a little bit newer wireless-testing with some rewritten patches i made after submitting the patches to the kernel mailinglist, but it doesn't contain the injection patches'. |
| 09:55.40 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.161) |
| 09:57.40 | *** part/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@xmpp.jrudevels.org) |
| 09:57.51 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-72-190.telpol.net.pl) |
| 10:01.21 | vi_ | jonwil: You know about lxp right? |
| 10:01.33 | jonwil | no |
| 10:01.45 | *** join/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@xmpp.jrudevels.org) |
| 10:02.19 | vi_ | They say he only listens to bluegrass music... |
| 10:02.37 | vi_ | jonwil: He wrote the injection drivers for the N900. |
| 10:02.51 | jonwil | ok |
| 10:03.16 | vi_ | jonwil: He was hired to do it by the original backtrack linux on n900 people. |
| 10:03.21 | vi_ | They never paid him. |
| 10:03.41 | vi_ | So he released his driver to the maemo community. |
| 10:05.41 | jonwil | ok |
| 10:16.36 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p579F61E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:18.57 | jonwil | ok, basically I am trying to find out if anyone is actually doing any improvements to the N900 WiFi driver (e.g. for CSSU or otherwise) so I can see about contributing some info to that |
| 10:27.19 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.143) |
| 10:27.43 | jon_y | jonwil: the only possibly modified wifi driver I've seen is in kernel power, that packet injection driver |
| 10:27.57 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 10:28.45 | Hurrian | technically it's not in kernel-power, it's an out of tree module |
| 10:28.58 | Hurrian | iirc powersave is the blocker for merging |
| 10:30.14 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 10:31.15 | jonwil | ok, it sounds like no-one is really doing any meaningful work on the driver then |
| 10:43.06 | vi_ | jonwil: That about sums it up. |
| 10:43.28 | jonwil | in that case I wont bother looking into wl1251-cal |
| 10:43.44 | vi_ | jonwil: lxp, while more than happy to point you in the right direction is thoroughly sick of the whole thing. |
| 10:44.01 | freemangordon | zeq: did you succeed to build the toolchain? |
| 10:44.01 | jonwil | I have no kernel skills :P |
| 10:44.24 | *** join/#maemo Guest61200 (Termana@has.been.strangled.net) |
| 10:44.25 | freemangordon | jonwil: want to help with BME stuff? |
| 10:44.39 | jonwil | reverse engineering you mean? |
| 10:44.45 | freemangordon | no, coding |
| 10:45.07 | freemangordon | I think you already did a wonderful RE job on BME |
| 10:45.28 | jonwil | except we still dont have the math to correctly calculate some figures like temprature |
| 10:45.34 | vi_ | jonwil: No kernel skills? Are you shitting me? |
| 10:45.45 | jonwil | I have never done Linux kernel dev |
| 10:45.52 | jonwil | beyond compiling the kernel on my Gentoo box |
| 10:46.07 | freemangordon | jonwil: I will do it when we have the other stuff (i.e. charging) in place |
| 10:46.13 | jonwil | :) |
| 10:46.21 | jonwil | what bits of BME is coding needed on? |
| 10:46.33 | freemangordon | did you check on my repo? |
| 10:46.37 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 10:46.40 | jonwil | link? |
| 10:47.04 | freemangordon | just a minute |
| 10:47.10 | jonwil | ok |
| 10:47.35 | freemangordon | https://gitorious.org/hald-addon-bme |
| 10:47.49 | freemangordon | https://gitorious.org/libbmeipc |
| 10:47.56 | freemangordon | jonwil: ^^^ |
| 10:48.00 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-140-038.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 10:48.15 | jonwil | ok |
| 10:48.36 | freemangordon | it needs charging support (the new driver in kp51) and temp reading (in libbmeipc) |
| 10:49.00 | jonwil | ok, well I cant help with the charging bit |
| 10:49.12 | jonwil | or the temprature bit |
| 10:49.16 | jonwil | so I cant really help |
| 10:50.07 | freemangordon | jonwil: you can, it just needs reading from sysfs, the driver handles all the other stuff |
| 10:50.17 | freemangordon | AFAIK |
| 10:50.20 | jonwil | Might go back into the maw that is the connectivity UI layer :) |
| 10:50.26 | jonwil | i.e. widgets, control panels etc |
| 10:50.44 | freemangordon | aah, where is Pali :( |
| 10:51.18 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: kernel charger driver handles all the stuff needed for charging, ain't? |
| 10:51.30 | jonwil | yeah I wanna talk to pali too :P |
| 10:51.58 | freemangordon | so userland only reads the current status and reports it through hal/dbus? |
| 10:52.00 | jonwil | I think I might consider doing further work on my wlan priority stuff |
| 10:54.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: basically yes |
| 10:54.08 | zeq | freemangordon: yes. I've built linaro-4.6-2012.7 and linaro-4.7-2012.7. The 4.6 toolchain sucessfully builds qt, 4.7 is still broken, but the gcc bug report now has it narrowed down to a single commit. |
| 10:55.32 | freemangordon | jonwil: see DocScrutinizer05's answer, so nothing more but reading the sysfs values |
| 10:56.08 | freemangordon | zeq: a pity |
| 10:56.23 | zeq | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:56.24 | povbot | 04Bug 53135: was not found. |
| 10:57.02 | freemangordon | zeq: I am going to build the latest fennec, what was that switch you wanr me about? something about webrt. |
| 10:57.04 | *** join/#maemo jiero (~jiero@27-33-217-103.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:57.11 | jiero | hi, all |
| 10:57.33 | jonwil | not really interested in BME work, I think I might consider doing further investigations into my wlan priority stuff :) |
| 10:57.39 | zeq | --disable-webrtc |
| 10:57.46 | jiero | I have problem of the portrait mode, it don't work on my N900 |
| 10:58.06 | freemangordon | jonwil: ok :) |
| 10:58.51 | vi_ | jiero: thats because the n900 is a landscape device. |
| 10:58.51 | freemangordon | zeq: and why is that? |
| 10:59.03 | freemangordon | and WTF webrtc is? |
| 10:59.04 | zeq | freemangordon: they've enabled webrtc by default, whereas it was disabled previously. |
| 10:59.20 | freemangordon | ~webrtc |
| 10:59.21 | zeq | it just hasn't been ported yet |
| 10:59.37 | *** join/#maemo jiero (~jiero@27-33-217-103.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:59.51 | zeq | it's a real-time communications layer. like SIP over the web. |
| 10:59.58 | kerio | jiero: because 1) portrait sucks |
| 11:00.00 | jiero | vi_ I used portrait mode after instatlled CSSU . but.now it is lost, |
| 11:00.04 | freemangordon | zeq: ok |
| 11:00.09 | jiero | kerio: so it was removed? |
| 11:00.13 | kerio | no, it's still there |
| 11:00.18 | kerio | you have to enable it in transitions.ini |
| 11:00.25 | jiero | ok |
| 11:00.34 | kerio | "cssu features" is a neat gui for stuff like that |
| 11:00.51 | *** join/#maemo jiero (~jiero@27-33-217-103.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:01.44 | jonwil | just wish more people had knowledge of/interest in icd |
| 11:02.02 | kerio | jonwil: mostly people just want icd to go away, i think |
| 11:02.05 | freemangordon | feels in the same way re BME :) |
| 11:02.59 | jonwil | ok, so what exactly are the end-user benefits of replacing BME anyway? |
| 11:03.10 | kerio | jonwil: easier USB hostmode |
| 11:03.10 | jonwil | i.e. why do it other than "because we can" or "because its open" |
| 11:03.19 | jonwil | ok |
| 11:03.32 | kerio | if you don't rely on BME for battery indicator, you can get one while doing freaky stuff that make USB engineers cry in their sleep |
| 11:03.36 | freemangordon | correct capacity measurement |
| 11:03.38 | kerio | *a working one |
| 11:03.43 | kerio | freemangordon: "correct", you mean |
| 11:04.00 | freemangordon | I mean "the real values" |
| 11:04.20 | kerio | so yeah, fuck bme |
| 11:05.18 | vi_ | jonwil: bme spams the i2c bus and does not use it properly. |
| 11:05.38 | vi_ | jonwil: It is a total kludge of a program. |
| 11:05.56 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B163C56.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:06.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | wellll |
| 11:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | bme IS an abomination |
| 11:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's not correct to say it spams the i2c-bus and does not use it properly |
| 11:08.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's rather like i2c device in itself has some compatibiltiy issues by design, when it comes to kernel modules like bq27x00 |
| 11:09.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and bme is using i2c device |
| 11:09.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | since there never been stock kernel modzles for bq27200 and bq24150 |
| 11:09.25 | jonwil | as for getting rid of icd, it should be possible IF people wanted to put some effort into it. Firstly one would need to start by replacing the WiFi bits using e.g. icd-network-wpa and the info I posted and stuff. Then one would need to replace the other plugins (i.e. GPRS plugin) then after that one can replace ICD2 itself. Biggest issue is dealing with osso-wlan-security :) |
| 11:09.48 | jonwil | understanding what that mess of a daemon (eapd) does |
| 11:09.56 | jonwil | or rather, what it talks to |
| 11:10.34 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.161) |
| 11:12.20 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~yuki@121.54.2.104) |
| 11:13.33 | jonwil | Replacing ICD2 wouldn't be hard if people cared enough |
| 11:13.33 | *** join/#maemo TabletEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 11:13.37 | jonwil | people with the coding skills to help :) |
| 11:14.30 | vi_ | I think it would be a hoot to replace browserd with somthing lighter. |
| 11:14.45 | kerio | or just update it |
| 11:14.55 | kerio | there's been plenty of gecko versions |
| 11:15.06 | vi_ | freemangordon: You mentioned you have compiled microb-engine for thumb2. |
| 11:15.09 | jonwil | biggest issue with replacing gecko is breaking flash, maps and stuff |
| 11:15.37 | jonwil | i.e. if you use a newer gecko you need to make sure its still ABI compatible |
| 11:15.38 | vi_ | if I apt-get it, will that pull ALL the dependencies or will I still have to copy libc++ or somthing to the appropriate place? |
| 11:16.11 | vi_ | kerio: That is not the point. I do not need the whole gecko engine sitting in RAM on the offchance I might want to read my txt messages. |
| 11:20.08 | freemangordon | vi_: and it is in thumb repo, latest cssu-thumb update includes it |
| 11:20.42 | freemangordon | vi_: everything is in place |
| 11:20.59 | freemangordon | i.e. libs, dependencies, etc |
| 11:21.27 | freemangordon | and later i will push fennec in the repo, but you MUST have latest cssu-thumb installed |
| 11:21.40 | freemangordon | vi_: ^^^ |
| 11:22.03 | vi_ | freemangordon: Ok |
| 11:22.09 | vi_ | imma gonna doit. |
| 11:22.31 | freemangordon | what? I am not native inglish speaker as you may know? |
| 11:22.43 | vi_ | I am going to do it. |
| 11:23.23 | zeq | freemangordon: I'm currently building fennec with linaro-4.7, and patched qt-4.7 |
| 11:24.34 | freemangordon | zeq: patched qt-4.7? |
| 11:24.36 | zeq | did I ask previously about whether we could upgrade to qt-4.8? |
| 11:24.54 | zeq | qt-4.7 needs a few fixes for gcc-4.7 |
| 11:25.03 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:25.13 | zeq | nothing abi breaking |
| 11:25.21 | freemangordon | zeq: hmm, what fixes? |
| 11:25.37 | zeq | hold on |
| 11:27.47 | zeq | http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/gcc-4.7.diff |
| 11:28.25 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 11:28.26 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 11:28.42 | freemangordon | is going to have some lunch |
| 11:29.45 | vi_ | When I type in apt-get upgrade I see loads of stuff with -203 on the end. DO I want to upgrade those? |
| 11:30.09 | vi_ | like 20 packages. |
| 11:30.15 | *** join/#maemo Kiborg (~Kiborg@89-212-91-200.static.t-2.net) |
| 11:30.21 | Kiborg | Hi |
| 11:30.57 | Kiborg | My N900 is caught in infinite restart loop. |
| 11:31.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | welcomes Kiborg and his bootloop |
| 11:31.11 | Kiborg | Yaay! |
| 11:31.35 | vi_ | Kiborg: 1. DId you install speed/batterypatch? |
| 11:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually flashing day |
| 11:31.50 | vi_ | Kiborg: 2. Did you make a backup with backupmenu? |
| 11:32.10 | vi_ | Kiborg: 3. What was the last thing you did in order to cause this reboot loop. |
| 11:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | he downloaded huge stuff (some p0rn ;-P ) from youtoube |
| 11:32.49 | vi_ | Kiborg: The answer is disable watchdogs, restore backup from backup menu. |
| 11:32.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems to me it might have crammed / |
| 11:33.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | or /var/* |
| 11:33.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | or sth like that |
| 11:33.14 | vi_ | then re-enable watchdogs. |
| 11:33.19 | zeq | lots of speculation! ;) |
| 11:33.29 | Hurrian | reflash rootfs, the end. |
| 11:33.41 | vi_ | zeq: s/speculation/experiance |
| 11:33.44 | Kiborg | yes I have speed patch as sugessted by cssu but i did that half a year ago. the last thing I did was download a clip uising CuteTube-QML, that I am using for a year probably. |
| 11:33.56 | vi_ | Kiborg: FFS. |
| 11:34.00 | vi_ | COMPLETE REFLASH. |
| 11:34.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | WUT??? |
| 11:34.00 | Hurrian | meh, probably something in the FSes corrupted |
| 11:34.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | speed patch as suggested by cssu???????? |
| 11:34.17 | *** join/#maemo luf (~luf@ip-89-103-223-40.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 11:34.42 | *** part/#maemo luf (~luf@ip-89-103-223-40.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 11:34.49 | Hurrian | most if not all script-based *-patches are highly discouraged |
| 11:34.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even know friggin speedpatch |
| 11:34.59 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: lol. |
| 11:35.07 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: It is great. |
| 11:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | is that the hoax of this script kiddie |
| 11:35.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 11:35.52 | zeq | it changes the cgroup settings |
| 11:35.52 | Hurrian | (which script kiddie?) |
| 11:36.04 | zeq | As I recall |
| 11:36.10 | vi_ | There are 2 scripts. Speedpatch and batterypatch. |
| 11:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, both BS par excellance I heard |
| 11:36.49 | zeq | batterypatch is just a cpufreq policy daemon |
| 11:36.53 | *** join/#maemo WielkiTost (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 11:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and NO, CSSU DID NOT recommend them! |
| 11:37.43 | *** join/#maemo WielkiTost (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 11:38.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: whatever it is, iirc it can only be some random piece of script picked up and klufged together by somebody with no clue |
| 11:38.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | initial stages of that *-patch development were epic. Doing *obviously* nonsensical stuff |
| 11:39.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and arguing about basic knowledge |
| 11:39.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | never ever looked at them since then |
| 11:39.49 | zeq | batterypatch is just a set of dbus scripts |
| 11:40.18 | NIN101 | never understood why you would something like speedpatch in the first place. Everything just works here and isn't sluggish etc. |
| 11:40.42 | Hurrian | NIN101, placebo effect |
| 11:40.49 | NIN101 | yeah. |
| 11:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and doing messy shit to sqlite database isn't helping on it |
| 11:40.58 | Hurrian | of course a N900 is nice and snappy after a reboot, no matter what crap you installed |
| 11:41.06 | Hurrian | after 5 days, that's a different story |
| 11:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | not here |
| 11:41.18 | NIN101 | I reboot every day. |
| 11:41.36 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05, that is the challenge |
| 11:42.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | t900:~# uptime |
| 11:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:42.33 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 11:42.34 | *** join/#maemo luf2 (~luf@ip-89-103-223-40.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 11:42.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it gets sluggish as soon as you run into swap fragmentation |
| 11:42.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | known effect |
| 11:43.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | known workarounds |
| 11:43.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | known root cause - well kinda |
| 11:44.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | since my systems are not RAM heavy, it rarely ever runs into swapping |
| 11:45.01 | *** part/#maemo luf2 (~luf@ip-89-103-223-40.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 11:45.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course crap like *-patch helps a lot to make it fragment swap even *faster* |
| 11:45.19 | *** join/#maemo luf2 (~luf@ip-89-103-223-40.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 11:45.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | as do nonsensical wallpapers etc, widgets, whatnot |
| 11:46.07 | zeq | completely true |
| 11:49.11 | *** join/#maemo luf (~luf@ip-89-103-223-40.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 11:52.00 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (~guysoft@109.226.25.4) |
| 11:52.17 | *** join/#maemo wicket64 (~wicket@81-86-240-143.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 11:53.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK's reswap script would actually help |
| 11:53.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | as does an occasional `killall browserd` |
| 11:58.09 | luf | I have a problem with evolution-data-server. I want to patch it but when I even only recompile and install it (evolution-data-server-addressbook, libebook, libedata-book, libedataserver) then the Calendar starts to randomly crashing (signal 11). |
| 11:59.47 | luf | Shit. I recompiled another package :D |
| 12:00.13 | *** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.4.11.sysads.com) |
| 12:04.54 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 12:05.43 | vi_ | luf: lolwut |
| 12:06.51 | *** join/#maemo jluisn (~quassel@187.114.216.86) |
| 12:11.54 | vi_ | apt-get install microb-engine |
| 12:12.00 | vi_ | cool. |
| 12:12.17 | vi_ | Now system boots to hildon then INSTA REBOOTS. |
| 12:12.19 | vi_ | FFS |
| 12:13.47 | luf | So back to the ground. |
| 12:14.05 | luf | Maybe I recompiled wrong package or not. |
| 12:14.09 | zeq | vi_: did you install the thumb compiled microb-engine without a thumb kernel? |
| 12:14.18 | kerio | *pat pat* |
| 12:14.20 | luf | Now I recompiled the right one and the same error occured. |
| 12:17.44 | kerio | freemangordon: ping |
| 12:19.51 | vi_ | zeq: I have the thumb kernel from cssu-tumb |
| 12:19.55 | vi_ | thumb |
| 12:20.18 | vi_ | and now I have a non booting device. This blows goatse |
| 12:20.27 | kerio | oh well, just restore your backupmenu backup |
| 12:20.28 | vi_ | Backup menu! |
| 12:20.33 | kerio | yay! |
| 12:21.04 | vi_ | unfortunatley my /opt partition backup is 1.5GB. It takes a while to restore. |
| 12:21.15 | kerio | ...wat |
| 12:23.27 | vi_ | wat what? |
| 12:24.25 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.248.187) |
| 12:24.31 | kerio | it's a lot! |
| 12:27.01 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p579F61E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:27.03 | vi_ | I have shit symlinked all over the place. |
| 12:27.07 | vi_ | frankly it is a mess. |
| 12:27.47 | kerio | so you can't even blame freemangordon |
| 12:27.55 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 12:28.04 | vi_ | kerio: blame him for what? |
| 12:28.13 | kerio | for borking your hildon |
| 12:28.25 | vi_ | I was the one who typed in apt-get install |
| 12:28.46 | vi_ | also my symlinking crazy shit all over the place has nothing to do with this |
| 12:28.51 | kerio | yeah but it was his package |
| 12:28.53 | kerio | from his repo |
| 12:28.54 | kerio | or something |
| 12:29.14 | vi_ | besides, I have just disabled watchdogs and will now fix the problem. |
| 12:29.47 | vi_ | his repo that is 'so fucking experimental it will rip your dick clean off so do not even enable it'. |
| 12:29.52 | vi_ | I was warned. |
| 12:30.07 | kerio | hahaha |
| 12:30.15 | zeq | works for me :) |
| 12:30.22 | kerio | why do we need watchdogs in the first place? |
| 12:31.32 | zeq | to be fair though, my system is even more experimental (libstdc++ and libgcc_s from gcc4.7) |
| 12:32.21 | vi_ | zeq gives no fucks. |
| 12:32.30 | vi_ | ne is on the edge of sanity. |
| 12:32.32 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:32.38 | zeq | I just mean, because it works here, doesn't mean it will anywhere else |
| 12:33.08 | zeq | I've got backupmenu ;) |
| 12:33.14 | kerio | backupmenu ^_^ |
| 12:33.20 | vi_ | zeq: that is the beauty of maemo. The fact it is soo customisable means there are infinite ways to fuck it up. |
| 12:33.40 | kerio | would swap be better on a really fast µSD? |
| 12:33.57 | vi_ | kerio: what is a really fast uSD? |
| 12:34.27 | kerio | µSD |
| 12:34.29 | kerio | microsd |
| 12:34.37 | vi_ | (warning: this is obviously a trick question) |
| 12:34.51 | vi_ | what is a *really fast* uSD |
| 12:35.13 | Hurrian | vi_, something with >4MB/s random write? |
| 12:35.14 | vi_ | ? |
| 12:35.20 | vi_ | Damn hurrian. |
| 12:35.21 | kerio | yeah, something like that |
| 12:35.33 | kerio | sequential write is kinda useless for swap |
| 12:35.41 | Hurrian | get a sandisk? |
| 12:35.48 | vi_ | I was hovering above the 'AWOOOOOOOOGAA! General ignorance detected' Alarm button. |
| 12:36.14 | luf | With eds I did: tar xzf evolution-data-server_1.4.2.1-20100623+0m5.tar.gz; cd evolution-data-server_1.4.2.1; dpkg-buildpackage |
| 12:36.48 | vi_ | kerio: Hurrian is correct. A sandisk 'class 4' will beat the shit out of pretty much all so called 'class 10' uSD cards. |
| 12:37.05 | luf | Then I install on the N900 .deb packages and shudown/boot it up. After that Calendar occasionaly fall down with signal 11. |
| 12:37.13 | luf | Any idea what should be wrong? |
| 12:38.21 | vi_ | basically the whole 'class' thing is irrelevent. |
| 12:38.29 | Hurrian | luf, ask cssu team for tips on packaging for fremantle |
| 12:38.37 | Hurrian | also, you may have left -mthumb on |
| 12:38.39 | kerio | vi_: sadly, even a sandisk mobile ultra (class 4) only achieves at most 2.7MB/s for random writes |
| 12:38.46 | kerio | (512KB ones, mind you) |
| 12:39.05 | vi_ | It is like measuring the viscosity of motorbike suspension oil with SAE measurements. Complete nonsense. |
| 12:39.06 | kerio | for 4K ones, you get barely 1MB/s with a normal sandisk class 4 |
| 12:40.08 | kerio | anyway, still slower than the eMMC |
| 12:40.19 | kerio | i think |
| 12:40.43 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, you good at openwrt? :P |
| 12:42.45 | zeq | MohammadAG: I have a custom openwrt build, maybe I can help? |
| 12:43.16 | zeq | or maybe it's *too* custom :P |
| 12:43.27 | MohammadAG | zeq, I flashed OpenWRT on my dusty WRT350N |
| 12:43.44 | MohammadAG | I'm planning to install it in my car (:P) with a 3G modem plugged into the USB port |
| 12:43.53 | kerio | ooh i want help too |
| 12:43.53 | zeq | nice |
| 12:43.55 | kerio | i have a wrt610n |
| 12:43.57 | MohammadAG | I just realized I'm actually connected through it... |
| 12:44.08 | kerio | so far i only installed ddwrt on it, but it's kinda bad i think |
| 12:44.09 | MohammadAG | anyway, ifup ppp3g (my interface name) doesn't seem to do anything |
| 12:44.30 | MohammadAG | kerio, ddwrt doesn't work on my router (v2 board), but openwrt seems nice |
| 12:44.46 | kerio | ddwrt is only half opensource |
| 12:44.56 | MohammadAG | then go openwrt :p |
| 12:45.12 | zeq | MohammadAG: anything in the log? |
| 12:45.16 | kerio | i have no idea if it's properly supported |
| 12:45.16 | MohammadAG | logread? |
| 12:45.20 | zeq | yup |
| 12:45.35 | MohammadAG | besides a wrong date |
| 12:45.47 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=hkB5DA8f |
| 12:45.59 | kerio | anyway, #openwrt maybe? |
| 12:46.22 | zeq | probably the better place :) |
| 12:46.57 | vi_ | force-power-key |
| 12:47.12 | vi_ | R&D flag, will this remove act-dead mode? |
| 12:47.19 | MohammadAG | afaik yes |
| 12:47.39 | kerio | what's act-dead? |
| 12:47.50 | zeq | MohammadAG: you need to find out what char device the chat script is running on. Make sure it's opening the modem. |
| 12:47.50 | Hurrian | kerio, charging only mode |
| 12:47.53 | kerio | oic |
| 12:48.25 | MohammadAG | zeq, I configured it to use /dev/ttyS0 |
| 12:49.38 | MohammadAG | I can seem to cat that, ttyS1 returns IO error |
| 12:49.55 | zeq | can you install minicom or something? |
| 12:50.10 | MohammadAG | installing |
| 12:50.17 | MohammadAG | 1MB left on / :/ |
| 12:50.33 | zeq | probably better take it over to #openwrt though |
| 12:50.37 | MohammadAG | I'm on there |
| 12:53.06 | vi_ | kerio: fixed! |
| 12:53.32 | vi_ | also, biltong+chilli sauce==win |
| 12:54.15 | zeq | vi_: what was broken? |
| 12:54.29 | vi_ | zeq: libgcc |
| 12:54.39 | MohammadAG | zeq, that place seems dead as ever |
| 12:55.07 | vi_ | 1. Disable watchdogs. 2. Update libgcc. 3.enable WD. 4. update system. |
| 12:55.19 | zeq | lots of people on there, but it is *really* quiet! |
| 12:55.38 | zeq | vi_: I thought it might be |
| 12:55.53 | MohammadAG | so.. how do I dial with minicom? :P |
| 12:56.10 | zeq | ATD I think |
| 12:56.20 | vi_ | browserd, still hogging all the ram. |
| 12:56.40 | zeq | if it uses AT commands |
| 12:56.46 | luf | ATDT - tone; ATDP - pulse; |
| 12:56.50 | zeq | ah yes |
| 12:56.50 | MohammadAG | it should, it works fine on Ubuntu |
| 12:57.05 | zeq | dusty memory |
| 12:57.29 | luf | But maybe ATD choose one of them as primary I don't remember. |
| 12:57.46 | *** join/#maemo em (~em@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 12:58.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think it has some initstring? |
| 12:59.11 | MohammadAG | I don't get this, I turned on echo in minicom but I get nothing |
| 12:59.15 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 12:59.29 | vi_ | PULSE DIALLING?? Does the network even still support that? |
| 12:59.53 | luf | I have no clue for another countries ;) |
| 12:59.55 | vi_ | recalls a time when you could dial by repeated slamming the handset up/down. |
| 13:00.03 | luf | Maybe in cenral Africa ... :D |
| 13:00.08 | zeq | MohammadAG: are you sure the device is ttyS0? |
| 13:00.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: hey, you did it wrong then ;-d |
| 13:00.21 | zeq | not ttyACM0 or something? |
| 13:00.44 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 13:00.45 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 13:00.49 | MohammadAG | but minicom shows /dev/ttyS1 |
| 13:01.02 | zeq | well that won't help :) |
| 13:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: configure your minicom properly |
| 13:01.49 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, any tips? |
| 13:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ctrl-a z |
| 13:02.06 | zeq | I recall there being shortcut keys |
| 13:02.10 | zeq | yes that's it |
| 13:02.29 | zeq | damn dusty memory :P |
| 13:02.52 | zeq | I've not used minicom for >10 years! |
| 13:02.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather ctrl-a o, as a shortcut |
| 13:02.59 | luf | ctrl-a h is help or menu or something like that. |
| 13:03.11 | luf | zeq: the same here :D |
| 13:03.13 | MohammadAG | z is help |
| 13:04.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | minicom even has a addrbook |
| 13:04.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | for numbers to fial |
| 13:04.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | dial |
| 13:04.34 | MohammadAG | ok, configured |
| 13:04.46 | MohammadAG | I still don't get how to pass commands to it |
| 13:04.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | to what? |
| 13:04.56 | MohammadAG | minicom |
| 13:05.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ctrl-a <char> |
| 13:05.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | everything else goes to serial |
| 13:05.23 | MohammadAG | no, I mean AT commands |
| 13:05.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | minicom doesn't take AT commands |
| 13:05.35 | luf | Fucking Maemo SDK. It seems I find the root cause with eds recompilation. |
| 13:05.35 | zeq | MohammadAG: you just type them |
| 13:05.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not a modem |
| 13:05.42 | MohammadAG | zeq, and nothing happens? |
| 13:05.51 | zeq | try atz |
| 13:06.14 | MohammadAG | nada |
| 13:06.16 | zeq | you're probably not connected to the modem |
| 13:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you type AT commands, minicom will send them out to serial, and if there's a modem on serial it will (or will not) react on AT command |
| 13:06.28 | zeq | make sure your serial settings are correct |
| 13:06.42 | zeq | flow control etc |
| 13:07.19 | MohammadAG | tries minicom on iPhone |
| 13:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 13:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | via USB? |
| 13:07.45 | MohammadAG | no, SSH |
| 13:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yay |
| 13:08.03 | zeq | MohammadAG: did you get anything in the kernel log when you inserted the device about which serial device it is? |
| 13:08.17 | MohammadAG | zeq, no, dmesg is vague on openwrt |
| 13:08.18 | luf | Thanks Pali and DocScrutinizer05 for help in finding the problem. |
| 13:08.22 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@75-101-67-197.dsl.dynamic.omsoft.com) |
| 13:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ?? |
| 13:08.39 | MohammadAG | USB Serial support registered for GSM modem (1-port) |
| 13:08.44 | MohammadAG | usbcore: registered new interface driver option |
| 13:08.44 | MohammadAG | option: v0.7.2:USB Driver for GSM modems |
| 13:08.44 | luf | The SDK has enabled thumb as default. |
| 13:08.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 13:09.00 | luf | So it leads to the crashes when I only recompile evolution-data-server. |
| 13:09.13 | luf | I disabled it and now everything seems ok. |
| 13:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I posted a general warning just yesterday iirc |
| 13:09.30 | luf | Yes. That helped me. |
| 13:09.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: ^^^ |
| 13:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-P |
| 13:10.00 | MohammadAG | I noticed on the wikis :p |
| 13:10.00 | MohammadAG | err, MLs |
| 13:10.00 | zeq | MohammadAG: does cat /proc/devices tell you anything? |
| 13:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | 'your' old thumbie problem |
| 13:10.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually generic |
| 13:10.40 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=75hcACK7 zeq |
| 13:11.04 | zeq | ttyACM probably |
| 13:11.28 | MohammadAG | zeq, it's not in /dev |
| 13:11.29 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=NyYhZdsu |
| 13:11.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | err wait, you are trying to get a local /dev/tty* via ssh via wlan? |
| 13:11.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | feel a headache near |
| 13:11.58 | zeq | if you're not running udev you'll have to make the device node |
| 13:12.14 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, the problem is on my router |
| 13:12.22 | MohammadAG | my router has a USB port which I plugged a USB modem into |
| 13:12.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 13:12.33 | MohammadAG | and it's running OpenWRT, a linux distro for routers |
| 13:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and minicom on your router |
| 13:12.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes sense |
| 13:13.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | should be /dev/ttyUSB or ttyACM or sth |
| 13:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | but only if udev creates that, first you need to check syslog if it gets detected at all |
| 13:13.57 | zeq | device major 166 and 188 respectively |
| 13:14.37 | zeq | mknod mknod /dev/ttyACM0 c 166 0 |
| 13:14.43 | MohammadAG | shouldn't it remove the lines from /proc/devices on device unplug? |
| 13:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsckng pastebin sets mimetype to txt :-/ |
| 13:15.02 | zeq | only *one* mknod, obviously :) |
| 13:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | browser offers to download or open in editor |
| 13:15.25 | zeq | /proc/devices is what the kernel knows about, not userspace unless you have udev running |
| 13:16.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, the kernel driver for usb tty will need a device node in /dev/ |
| 13:16.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could live happily with static devicenode |
| 13:17.00 | MohammadAG | root@OpenWrt:~# cat /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 13:17.01 | MohammadAG | cat: can't open '/dev/ttyACM0': No such device |
| 13:17.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | mknod /dev/ttyACM0 c 166 0 |
| 13:17.38 | zeq | ^^ |
| 13:17.58 | MohammadAG | read that line again |
| 13:18.04 | MohammadAG | No such device, not no such file |
| 13:18.05 | zeq | mknod /dev/ttyUSB0 c 188 0 |
| 13:18.14 | MohammadAG | root@OpenWrt:~# mknod /dev/ttyACM0 c 166 0 |
| 13:18.14 | MohammadAG | root@OpenWrt:~# cat /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 13:18.14 | MohammadAG | cat: can't open '/dev/ttyACM0': No such device |
| 13:18.25 | MohammadAG | same |
| 13:18.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | modprobe dafaq |
| 13:18.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | will bind to that devicenode |
| 13:18.59 | zeq | MohammadAG: if it's listed in /proc/devices, that should work |
| 13:19.06 | *** join/#maemo wmarone (~wmarone@c-67-174-151-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 13:19.07 | MohammadAG | zeq, it doesn't :P |
| 13:19.20 | MohammadAG | starts over -> reboot |
| 13:19.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | good plan |
| 13:19.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | check what kernel module gets loaded when youplug in the modem |
| 13:21.22 | MohammadAG | nope, still doesn't work |
| 13:21.46 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=TrnRxvFB zeq DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:21.50 | MohammadAG | I feel I'm missing something |
| 13:21.57 | zeq | MohammadAG: did the ttyACM and ttyUSB devices only show in /proc/devices after insertion? |
| 13:22.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | NO I don't want to open it with kwrite!! |
| 13:22.46 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, just curl it :p |
| 13:22.52 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=r9G5vb8A on Ubuntu |
| 13:22.53 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@10.Red-81-44-9.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:22.54 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 13:22.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq I will |
| 13:23.10 | MohammadAG | zeq, I'll reboot again to check, it was plugged in from the start |
| 13:24.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: did you listen to me? toldya to check what kernel module gets loaded when you plug in the modem |
| 13:24.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll need 2 things for that: syslog/whatever, and plugging in the modem _after_ booting |
| 13:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | lsmod might help as well |
| 13:25.17 | MohammadAG | zeq, no, they're there from bootup |
| 13:25.19 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, no new lines in dmesg after plugging in |
| 13:25.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | now that's a bad thing |
| 13:25.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | lsusb won't show anything either then |
| 13:25.53 | zeq | can you try rmmod and insmod the driver? |
| 13:26.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | only if he knows |
| 13:26.05 | MohammadAG | no lsusb |
| 13:26.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | the driver |
| 13:26.20 | zeq | true |
| 13:26.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-21 15:18:33] <DocScrutinizer05> modprobe dafaq |
| 13:26.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-21 15:18:49] <DocScrutinizer05> will bind to that devicenode |
| 13:26.48 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@10.Red-81-44-9.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:26.48 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 13:26.48 | vi_ | is it possible to stop the keyboard lights from spazzing out when using R&D mode? |
| 13:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr, yes |
| 13:27.12 | vi_ | errr, how? |
| 13:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a sysfs node to switch the hw on/off |
| 13:27.21 | MohammadAG | /etc/pm tab |
| 13:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't ask me the friggin name |
| 13:27.29 | MohammadAG | and there's a config for bootup :p |
| 13:27.45 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, no modprobe, no dafaq |
| 13:27.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 13:28.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | what a shite OS is THAT? |
| 13:28.10 | MohammadAG | is there a way to know the driver? |
| 13:28.15 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: a very tiny one |
| 13:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | lsmod? |
| 13:28.18 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, something that runs on 4MBs of flash |
| 13:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, without modprobe you're fecked |
| 13:28.54 | zeq | MohammadAG: can you check which module is used on ubuntu and see if it's available on your openwrt? |
| 13:29.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless the fools thought insmod is sufficient replacement |
| 13:29.01 | zeq | insmod works |
| 13:29.01 | MohammadAG | that's what I want to do |
| 13:29.09 | zeq | you just have to deal with the dependencies yourself |
| 13:29.11 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: that does allow keyboard lights to operate as normal right? |
| 13:29.18 | MohammadAG | vi_, yes |
| 13:29.31 | MohammadAG | zeq, I can't figure out which driver it's using |
| 13:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 13:29.41 | MohammadAG | is there a way to limit drivers by device ID? |
| 13:29.47 | MohammadAG | Bus 001 Device 008: ID 19d2:0117 ZTE WCDMA Technologies MSM |
| 13:29.54 | zeq | MohammadAG: there should be a /sys entry to help you |
| 13:30.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: what will your desktop PC syslog say when you plug in modem there? |
| 13:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: actually that too, but not on a system that's too tiny for modprobe ;-P |
| 13:31.04 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1vGjgfcT |
| 13:31.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 13:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | FSCKYOU pastebin |
| 13:31.57 | zeq | I meant in /sys on the ubuntu when the driver is loaded |
| 13:32.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: fool! paste your shite as proper html, not as mimetype txt! |
| 13:32.13 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, http://pastebin.com/1vGjgfcT |
| 13:32.22 | MohammadAG | your browser should handle raw text |
| 13:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ORLY?! |
| 13:32.51 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 13:32.53 | MohammadAG | :p |
| 13:33.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | YOUR browser should rething what's html |
| 13:33.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what's mimetypes |
| 13:33.20 | vi_ | what is 'sleep_ind' in pmconfig? |
| 13:33.25 | MohammadAG | that's it |
| 13:33.32 | MohammadAG | if it's 1, change it to 0 |
| 13:33.48 | MohammadAG | save, reboot, or save and change the sysfs value |
| 13:34.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | [ 9265.148196] usb 1-1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB0 |
| 13:34.21 | vi_ | sleep_ind==sleep indicators. |
| 13:34.48 | vi_ | I wonder if the hardware has to wake up to actuate the sleep indicators to indicate it was asleep. |
| 13:34.50 | MohammadAG | zeq, I don't know what path to check |
| 13:35.32 | zeq | MohammadAG: silly question, but do you have enough bus power? |
| 13:35.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | the usual fuck I guess, with the modem pretending it's a memstick with windows drivers on it |
| 13:35.41 | MohammadAG | zeq, no idea :P |
| 13:35.54 | MohammadAG | the modem lights up and initializes (red -> green) though |
| 13:36.07 | zeq | MohammadAG: that's probably ok then...? |
| 13:36.17 | MohammadAG | yeah, I remember it staying red on the N900 |
| 13:36.17 | vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: There is a linux program for toggling the USB mode of the usb stick. |
| 13:36.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 13:36.29 | MohammadAG | modeswitch_usb afaik |
| 13:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | eject even can do, usually |
| 13:36.34 | fasta | What is the motivation for open-source projects to make things hard to build? |
| 13:36.49 | vi_ | fasta: It keeps the noobs out. |
| 13:37.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, modeswitch_* sounds correct |
| 13:37.08 | MohammadAG | usb_modeswitch |
| 13:37.11 | MohammadAG | oh well, same shit |
| 13:37.21 | fasta | vi_: I'd say it merely shows how much of a n00b the developers are. |
| 13:37.59 | fasta | vi_: would you also say that's why they write pseudo-C instead of correct C? |
| 13:38.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yoh |
| 13:38.25 | zeq | MohammadAG: if it's not installed there probably is a pkg for it |
| 13:38.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | though - what's pseudo-c? |
| 13:38.34 | fasta | vi_: and why it requires a special version of gcc to compile, instead of just a whole range of compilers and at the very least the latest? |
| 13:38.45 | MohammadAG | zeq, if what isn't installed? |
| 13:38.45 | zeq | MohammadAG: but you should be able to tell if it has started as a memstick |
| 13:38.57 | MohammadAG | well, I'd rather get dmesg to show stuff first |
| 13:39.04 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: pseudo-C is code which is not portable, but runs due to pure luck on some architectures and operating systems. |
| 13:39.09 | kgu | Do any of you guys remmeber how to only see photos taken by the camera in the photo-app? I see all kind of small icons and stuff too |
| 13:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: :nod: |
| 13:39.23 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: for example, all media players on Linux fall under that. |
| 13:39.25 | zeq | what does /proc/usb show |
| 13:39.26 | zeq | ? |
| 13:39.39 | MohammadAG | I connected my N9 to the router, dmesg didn't change |
| 13:39.40 | vi_ | kgu: In photo app settings there is a choice for 'show only camera' photos. |
| 13:39.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | kgu: check tracker config |
| 13:39.55 | vi_ | kgu: No, you cannot set it to use that by default. |
| 13:40.00 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 13:40.05 | zeq | /proc/bus/usb ? |
| 13:40.06 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: the player I am using now is just so completely wrong, it's not funny, yet it doesn't crash. |
| 13:40.21 | MohammadAG | zeq, empty dir |
| 13:40.22 | zeq | MohammadAG: if it's there |
| 13:40.46 | zeq | cat /proc/filesystems |
| 13:40.56 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: Qemu is another project for which the same holds. |
| 13:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: are you sure the USB itself is supported on that *wrt? |
| 13:41.08 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, it provides power, it should work |
| 13:41.09 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: it does support usb |
| 13:41.17 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: you would think that Redhat employees would know how to write good code, right? |
| 13:41.24 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/wHGaxcSw |
| 13:41.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | NO, definitely not |
| 13:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: ^^^ |
| 13:41.45 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: so, I wonder how every single time everything which is done, is done completely wrong. |
| 13:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, lennart is a redhat employee afaik ;-P |
| 13:42.05 | zeq | MohammadAG: you'll have to try to install lsusb I think |
| 13:42.46 | MohammadAG | zeq, I'm not sure which package it's in |
| 13:42.51 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: there are a few actual professional applications which actually do work, but one can likely count them on two hands on the whole planet. |
| 13:43.09 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: but that's only because I never have seen the code for those likely. |
| 13:43.25 | fasta | Even QT has some really weird ideas. |
| 13:43.28 | zeq | MohammadAG: you could try insmod usbdevfs first |
| 13:43.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | some? SOME??? |
| 13:43.42 | fasta | QT does #include <QtFoobar> |
| 13:44.07 | fasta | That's certainly not following conventions. |
| 13:44.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | points at qtm-sensors |
| 13:44.36 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: so, what's the secret behind all this epic failure? |
| 13:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | 42 ;-D |
| 13:44.52 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: is it just because it is free that they make it crappy on purpose? |
| 13:45.00 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: or are they just born that stupid? |
| 13:45.35 | fasta | I have seen some commercial software which has null pointer exceptions in all the logs. |
| 13:45.41 | zeq | fasta: what am I missing? what's wrong with #include <QtFoobar>? |
| 13:45.47 | fasta | I asked about it and they said 'yeah, that's normal'. |
| 13:45.58 | MohammadAG | root@OpenWrt:~# lsusb |
| 13:45.59 | MohammadAG | Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub |
| 13:45.59 | MohammadAG | Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0421:0518 Nokia Mobile Phones |
| 13:45.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: actually attaching a memstick first would tell you a lot about your USB |
| 13:46.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 13:46.26 | fasta | zeq: #include <somestdcfeature> |
| 13:46.33 | fasta | zeq: that's normal. |
| 13:46.42 | fasta | zeq: or C++ |
| 13:46.53 | fasta | zeq: #include <mycompany.h> |
| 13:47.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, #include <myname>.h seems pretty normal too |
| 13:47.18 | fasta | zeq: there is just no excuse to not include the .h or .hpp or however you want to call it. |
| 13:47.39 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: yes, that's normal. |
| 13:48.11 | fasta | But even lots of GNU people don't know how to use their own fucking software configuration tool (autoconf). |
| 13:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody knows how to use friggin autoconf |
| 13:48.33 | fasta | glib has circular dependencies on pkg-config |
| 13:48.46 | MohammadAG | ok, N9 mounted |
| 13:48.52 | MohammadAG | had to install some kernel modules |
| 13:48.58 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: I learned how to use it correctly, but yes, it was a pain. |
| 13:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: as a modem? |
| 13:49.22 | MohammadAG | no, mass storage device |
| 13:49.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 13:49.33 | MohammadAG | usb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB0 |
| 13:49.33 | MohammadAG | option 1-1:1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected |
| 13:49.33 | MohammadAG | usb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB1 |
| 13:49.33 | MohammadAG | option 1-1:1.2: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected |
| 13:49.33 | MohammadAG | usb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB2 |
| 13:49.34 | MohammadAG | woo |
| 13:49.36 | *** join/#maemo Ian--- (~ian@46.11.127.68) |
| 13:49.47 | zeq | :D |
| 13:49.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey! |
| 13:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | usual shite exposing three(!) tty |
| 13:50.22 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: you are somewhat older than me, I think. Don't you have some explanation which explains all the observed failures? |
| 13:50.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | not a good one |
| 13:50.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | except it seems to me it's related to youth |
| 13:50.59 | MohammadAG | ok, so how do I test it again? :P |
| 13:51.03 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: youth of the developers or of me? |
| 13:51.10 | zeq | fasta: Closest thing to an explaination would be limited knowledge or ignorance |
| 13:51.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | kids learn coding nowadays before they learn reading |
| 13:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and bad habits stick |
| 13:51.34 | zeq | most people have their area of focus |
| 13:51.38 | fasta | zeq: yeah, but it's really 99.999% which is ignorant. |
| 13:51.53 | fasta | zeq: it kind of makes me look like an arrogant prick. |
| 13:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | "screwit, it works!" |
| 13:52.11 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: "worksforme" |
| 13:52.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-20 14:36:32] <vi_> FIQ: There is the right way, the wrong way and the DocScrutinizer05 way. The DocScrutinizer05 way being like the right way, but even more correct. |
| 13:52.35 | fasta | (yes, it works for you, because you haven't heard of this thing called a "memory model" yet) |
| 13:52.48 | FIQ | ? |
| 13:52.59 | fasta | Sequence point? Dude, get real! |
| 13:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: just quoting a matching post |
| 13:53.17 | zeq | freemangordon: did you build latest fennec? |
| 13:53.22 | fasta | -pedantic -Werror? It's working, man! |
| 13:53.23 | FIQ | oh |
| 13:53.27 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 13:53.32 | kerio | why do usb modems feel the need to expose multiple tty ports? |
| 13:53.48 | fasta | It uses 1000 times more CPU than needed? Yeah, who cares? |
| 13:53.50 | kerio | hell, this one also acts as a usb ethernet card |
| 13:54.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: idiocy? |
| 13:54.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: one for AT commands, one for ppp, one for the fun |
| 13:54.23 | kerio | haha |
| 13:54.29 | kerio | this one has only two, i think |
| 13:54.33 | fasta | One has been designed for the NSA. |
| 13:54.38 | fasta | Duh. |
| 13:54.41 | zeq | LOL |
| 13:54.45 | kerio | plus the fake ethernet |
| 13:55.08 | fasta | All the people on Linux who say they have no working wireless should think again. |
| 13:55.20 | zeq | they are for separate command channels I think |
| 13:55.24 | fasta | It's just not working for them. |
| 13:55.36 | fasta | Echelon is working mighty fine. |
| 13:55.49 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 13:55.49 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 13:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it might save you from implementing friggin mux07.xx |
| 13:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | grrr |
| 13:55.59 | zeq | freemangordon: I managed to build fennec with linaro-4.7 |
| 13:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | reconnect |
| 13:56.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it might save you from implementing friggin mux07.xx |
| 13:56.23 | zeq | I'll put the toolchains up now in the same place as before. |
| 13:56.27 | fasta | I wonder how one would feel working on a global spy system. You would be like Gestapo++. |
| 13:56.37 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@212-183-126-159.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 13:56.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | which would otherwise multiplex all the different chanels for cmd(AT), data, unsol response etc over just one tty |
| 13:57.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what about the fake ethernet? |
| 13:57.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | fake ethernet? |
| 13:57.37 | zeq | kerio: isn't that a packet interface? |
| 13:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably talk about the NIC that gets exposed for direct IP access to GSM stack |
| 13:57.52 | zeq | for direct access |
| 13:57.53 | kerio | this usb card exposes two ttys and an ethernet |
| 13:58.15 | kerio | hm |
| 13:58.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so you got the magic 3 again |
| 13:59.11 | kerio | the two ttys *kinda* make sense |
| 13:59.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | just one is a eth* so you don't need to mount a converter to the tty |
| 13:59.42 | kerio | yeah but how do i use it? |
| 13:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically like any other NIC |
| 14:00.03 | kerio | the official software doesn't use it |
| 14:00.05 | kerio | at least on os x |
| 14:01.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, they probably do 07.xx mux then, and ppp |
| 14:01.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | usb modems are a PITA |
| 14:01.45 | MohammadAG | zeq, http://pastebin.com/MXAzVE65 |
| 14:02.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 14:02.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks MohammadAG |
| 14:02.12 | zeq | MohammadAG: that doesn't look so bad |
| 14:02.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | (for 1. line in that pastie matching my post) |
| 14:02.43 | zeq | nearly there :) |
| 14:02.46 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 14:02.55 | MohammadAG | yeah |
| 14:02.57 | MohammadAG | that's ttyUSB2 |
| 14:03.01 | MohammadAG | 0 and 1 didn't work |
| 14:03.04 | *** join/#maemo qwazix_ (~qwazix@athedsl-235542.home.otenet.gr) |
| 14:03.33 | zeq | MohammadAG: I suggest you use minicom to interactively connect |
| 14:03.49 | zeq | they tweak the chat script afterwards |
| 14:04.21 | zeq | s/they/then/ |
| 14:04.27 | MohammadAG | ATI |
| 14:04.31 | MohammadAG | Manufacturer: ZTE CORPORATION |
| 14:04.33 | MohammadAG | at least that works |
| 14:04.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: it looks like everything just fine, just you either have wrong APN, or no credit |
| 14:04.44 | MohammadAG | postpaid and APN is right |
| 14:04.54 | MohammadAG | how do I connect with minicom? |
| 14:05.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you already are in internet mode I'd guess |
| 14:05.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | no more need to talk to modem via minicom |
| 14:05.29 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: he isn't getting CONNECT |
| 14:05.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'd probably even need "+++" escape sequence to abort data mode |
| 14:06.00 | MohammadAG | ATD*99# << errors |
| 14:06.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 14:06.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I say you either got wrong parameters, or no more credit |
| 14:06.30 | MohammadAG | but it works fine on Ubuntu :/ |
| 14:06.34 | MohammadAG | how do I pass a username and pass? |
| 14:06.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | the sequence seems all fine |
| 14:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | until it refuses atd*99*** |
| 14:07.04 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~brzys@87-205-232-245.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 14:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jul 21 13:57:36 OpenWrt local2.info chat[8197]: AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","internet.pelephone.net.il"^M^M |
| 14:07.46 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, http://pastebin.com/XudJPxQW |
| 14:08.18 | *** join/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@124.160.216.98) |
| 14:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks good, though I dunno who's using it |
| 14:08.41 | MohammadAG | Ubuntu |
| 14:09.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you need same on your wrt |
| 14:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | somehow |
| 14:09.48 | MohammadAG | tries minicom on Ubuntu |
| 14:10.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't wanna use minicom, as the system already is two layer higher than that |
| 14:10.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jul 21 13:57:36 OpenWrt local2.info chat[8197]: send (ATD*99***1#^M) |
| 14:10.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ is minicom |
| 14:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | level |
| 14:11.03 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: I think he's just trying to see if he gets the same response on ubuntu |
| 14:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | after that all 3 channels are assigned to ppp, and eth0, and whatnot |
| 14:11.06 | MohammadAG | ATD*99***1# |
| 14:11.06 | MohammadAG | CONNECT 7200000 |
| 14:11.15 | MohammadAG | on Ubuntu |
| 14:11.33 | psychologe | i installed touchsearch,but can't find icon on home,or add widget menu.i reboot phone but the same |
| 14:11.37 | zeq | MohammadAG: that's using minicom, or the ppp script? |
| 14:11.43 | MohammadAG | minicom on Ubuntu |
| 14:12.03 | zeq | does it do the same on the wrt? |
| 14:12.09 | MohammadAG | no, it returns ERROR |
| 14:12.20 | MohammadAG | serial error? |
| 14:12.21 | zeq | all parameters the same? |
| 14:12.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jul 21 13:57:36 OpenWrt local2.info chat[8197]: ERROR |
| 14:13.50 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: just trying to mimimize the difference between the working and non-working cases |
| 14:13.51 | MohammadAG | Replace 'pincode' with the correct pincode of your SIM card. Note that an disabled pincode on the SIM card is problematic, please enable it. If you are connecting to a phone where the pincode has already been entered, there if no need for this. |
| 14:13.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | psychologe: check your .desktop files |
| 14:14.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | psychologe: /usr/share/apps/*/* sth |
| 14:15.45 | vi_ | freemangordon: ping |
| 14:15.52 | MohammadAG | how do I set a pin code? |
| 14:16.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh |
| 14:16.11 | fasta | Is there some way to disable the blinking when a new e-mail arrives? |
| 14:16.15 | psychologe | DocScrutinizer05, in /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/ i can see touchsearch .desktop |
| 14:16.16 | zeq | MohammadAG: it's the same "phone", I can't see that being the problem tbh |
| 14:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: settings-notificatrions |
| 14:16.59 | MohammadAG | root@OpenWrt:~# gcom -d /dev/ttyUSB2 |
| 14:16.59 | MohammadAG | SIM ready |
| 14:16.59 | MohammadAG | Waiting for Registration..(120 sec max) |
| 14:16.59 | MohammadAG | Registered on Home network: "Pelephone",2 |
| 14:16.59 | MohammadAG | Signal Quality: 10,99 |
| 14:17.44 | zeq | that seems to have worked? |
| 14:17.46 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: you mean the same menu which contains 'received chat'? |
| 14:17.47 | MohammadAG | zeq, I got CONNECT |
| 14:17.54 | MohammadAG | nothing after that though |
| 14:17.54 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: because it is already disabled there. |
| 14:18.38 | zeq | MohammadAG: it will be waiting for a ppp handshake or packet network access |
| 14:19.16 | MohammadAG | zeq, success? http://pastebin.com/4bjFQQtA |
| 14:19.39 | zeq | looks good :) |
| 14:19.46 | MohammadAG | but it hungup for some reason :p |
| 14:19.47 | fasta | Does anyone use Monav here? |
| 14:20.11 | zeq | MohammadAG: I'd say that's a new problem :) |
| 14:20.39 | fasta | I went through the trouble of getting a PBF file and then converting it with the preprocessor and now the stupid phone says that the fileformat is not compatible. |
| 14:21.12 | fasta | Are there any instructions to get a working mapping application anywhere at all? |
| 14:21.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: settings |
| 14:21.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: notification light |
| 14:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | owtte |
| 14:22.29 | *** join/#maemo Kiborg (~Kiborg@89-212-91-200.static.t-2.net) |
| 14:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | the menu point with the 3 colered overlapping dots |
| 14:23.29 | Kiborg | hm |
| 14:23.39 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: I switched my system language to English, because otherwise it's just not convenient. |
| 14:24.00 | Kiborg | I seem to be to stupid to reflash the system- |
| 14:24.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: so what? |
| 14:24.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | fasta: do you expect me to do the same? |
| 14:24.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | to do you a favour |
| 14:24.26 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: so, it is rebooting now and then I will likely see what the same things you are seeing. |
| 14:24.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you should've picked 'german' then |
| 14:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 14:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | "Einstellungen" - "Benachrichtigungslicht" |
| 14:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | (SIC!) |
| 14:25.49 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: E-mail message received is _not_ enabled. |
| 14:25.57 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: and I do get it. |
| 14:26.13 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: for text messages it is however enabled. |
| 14:26.38 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:26.45 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 14:26.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: that's weird why it hangs up |
| 14:27.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | instantly after chap/pap |
| 14:27.30 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: it's another option I think. |
| 14:27.47 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: I likely already found it in the actual E-mail application. |
| 14:28.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc, I never really used modest |
| 14:28.40 | kgu | You dont use email on the N900? Or another app? |
| 14:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you wanna know for sure, do dbus-monitor|less, /mce |
| 14:28.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | no email on mobile |
| 14:28.58 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05: fixed that but no internet conn yet |
| 14:29.05 | kgu | oh I see |
| 14:29.20 | zeq | MohammadAG: routing? DNS? |
| 14:29.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | one account with one mail per month |
| 14:30.05 | kgu | Not that much. Snailmail would be fine for you then :) |
| 14:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | on t900 though I got modest configured, but it doesn't really work as it collides with my other client using pop and modest using imap, which my mailserver doesn't handle |
| 14:30.50 | MohammadAG | no, interface name has to be wan :D |
| 14:31.05 | MohammadAG | zeq, thanks a million :D |
| 14:31.11 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, you too :D |
| 14:31.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: sure thing, you need to tell it which interface to use |
| 14:31.27 | kgu | POP is so old fasioned |
| 14:31.42 | zeq | MohammadAG: no problem :) |
| 14:31.43 | MohammadAG | http://www.speedtest.net/result/2076236740.png not bad |
| 14:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | IMAP is so "I'd use a webmailer but I think it's not as leete as this weird protocol" |
| 14:32.26 | kgu | heh |
| 14:32.36 | kerio | IMAP is a programmatic webmail |
| 14:33.23 | jon_y | POP3 is the best, don't need constant connection to work |
| 14:33.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 14:33.56 | zeq | I use IMAP :P |
| 14:34.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and backfiring to server is minimal |
| 14:34.59 | jon_y | I don't need the server to tell me I can't read my 3 day old mail because it's out for maintenance |
| 14:35.33 | zeq | well, it's my own server, so ... |
| 14:35.43 | kgu | DocScrutinizer05: well, you can do pop3 on modest |
| 14:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't need my server make a mail vanish on all clients because I deleted it on N900 |
| 14:36.10 | kgu | I need that, to keep in sync |
| 14:36.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually that's the thing I need the least |
| 14:38.01 | kgu | I need it the most - people have different needs, and good that both is possible |
| 14:38.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | gave me a friggin headache to make my OM account delete the mails from server while keeping it on my mail client - the OM server offers IMAP only :-( |
| 14:38.48 | fasta | How much bandwidth does it eat? |
| 14:39.06 | fasta | I.e. if you leave it on always? |
| 14:39.09 | fasta | Per month. |
| 14:39.21 | kerio | fasta: enough to drain your battery :) |
| 14:39.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | IMAP? probably unpredictabble shitload |
| 14:39.50 | kerio | <DocScrutinizer05> i don't like IMAP so i'll spread FUD about it |
| 14:39.55 | kgu | As long as I'm on flatrate, I dont care |
| 14:40.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hopes for battery flatrate |
| 14:40.26 | vi_ | IMAP is superior to pop in EVERY way. |
| 14:40.38 | *** join/#maemo kimitake (~kimitake@75.0.187.154) |
| 14:40.38 | jon_y | lol, no |
| 14:40.49 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian_ (~Hurrian@121.54.2.104) |
| 14:40.52 | vi_ | lol, yes |
| 14:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | HTTP is superior to IMAP in EVERY way |
| 14:40.59 | *** part/#maemo Hurrian_ (~Hurrian@121.54.2.104) |
| 14:41.13 | vi_ | http!=imap |
| 14:41.24 | FIQ | IRC is superior to MSNP in EVERY way |
| 14:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | imap!=pop |
| 14:41.26 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: can the "internal" usb port be used for charging, with an inductive mat and something below the cover? |
| 14:41.47 | dreamer | hi all, is this still the preferred way to automount ext2 microsd cards? http://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_on_microSD_card |
| 14:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:42.02 | kerio | dreamer: last i heard, CSSU's automounter mounted *everything* |
| 14:42.06 | zeq | kerio: not without protective circuitry |
| 14:42.08 | StyXman_ | DocScrutinizer05: probably you want disconnected imap, but if'you're fine with downloading the mails, pop and imap are equivalent |
| 14:42.16 | jon_y | dreamer: use cssu |
| 14:42.18 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p57977AF7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:42.18 | kerio | zeq: which protective circuitry? i'd charge using the n900 itself |
| 14:42.19 | dreamer | kerio: it doesn't here. still have to mount -t ext this card |
| 14:42.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | StyXman_: exactly |
| 14:42.26 | dreamer | jon_y: afaik I have cssu installed .. |
| 14:42.38 | jon_y | dreamer: as I found before, cssu mounter auto mounts my ext3 card |
| 14:42.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | StyXman_: modulo imap gives you more headache configuring it |
| 14:42.45 | jon_y | *automounter |
| 14:42.48 | FIQ | I have CSSU |
| 14:42.53 | FIQ | and an ext3-formatted SD card |
| 14:42.56 | jon_y | I see it in the nokia stock file browser |
| 14:43.03 | StyXman_ | DocScrutinizer05: the server or the client? both should be faily equivalent |
| 14:43.06 | FIQ | I still get these "not supported!" errors for the microsdcard thingy |
| 14:43.20 | zeq | kerio: there is no protective circuitry on the internal usb |
| 14:43.24 | jon_y | hmm, not sure, you using the stock kernel? |
| 14:43.25 | *** join/#maemo bsdmaniak (~bsdmaniak@std93-20-88-120-139-80.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:43.28 | kerio | oh, that kind of protection |
| 14:43.29 | fasta | DocScrutinizer05: what's the problem with imap4? |
| 14:43.29 | kerio | i see |
| 14:43.32 | kerio | hrmpf :c |
| 14:43.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | StyXman_: client side, see my comment about deleting mails from server above |
| 14:43.37 | FIQ | jon_y: I use powerkernel |
| 14:43.45 | kerio | and nobody made an inductive-capable BL-5J yet, huh? |
| 14:43.48 | FIQ | to be able to use mobilehotspot (or I wouldn't be connected atm :P) |
| 14:43.51 | jon_y | hmm, me too, not sure why aren't you mounting it |
| 14:44.14 | jon_y | FIQ: check with the nokia file browser app |
| 14:44.21 | jon_y | amything new? |
| 14:44.22 | FIQ | jon_y: sec |
| 14:44.35 | FIQ | nope |
| 14:44.50 | FIQ | well, I see memory card there, but opening it just shows "format not supported" |
| 14:44.51 | jon_y | kerio: I have an inductive stove :) |
| 14:45.01 | jon_y | FIQ: try dmesg|tail ? |
| 14:45.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I thought about exactly that: BL-5 with inductive charging |
| 14:45.22 | StyXman_ | DocScrutinizer05: most clients support «delete after downloading» |
| 14:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | StyXman_: yeah, which makes your mail vanish on all other clients :-/ |
| 14:46.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the wonders of imap |
| 14:46.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's exactly the same as POP in that regard |
| 14:46.30 | kerio | isn't it |
| 14:46.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way |
| 14:46.41 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: cloud computing!! |
| 14:46.46 | jon_y | thin clients!! |
| 14:46.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | pop download is download |
| 14:47.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way to remote delete a mail on any remote client |
| 14:47.21 | jon_y | man, I get sick of getting told how much cloud integration $new_phone has |
| 14:47.26 | kerio | sure, and if you IMAP download from all your clients, you get the same behavior as POP |
| 14:47.40 | StyXman_ | DocScrutinizer05: no, but once you downloaded and deleted, either with pop or imap, other clients won't see those emails either |
| 14:47.42 | jon_y | so, I need to sign up with dropbox to get any external storage :( |
| 14:47.55 | kerio | haha |
| 14:47.59 | kerio | jon_y: google drive! |
| 14:48.07 | jon_y | yeah, skydrive too |
| 14:48.14 | StyXman_ | what you can do is have your mail in a dirmail setup and sync it with git |
| 14:48.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | so bottom line: fsck imap, pop worked fine for 4 decades |
| 14:48.19 | dreamer | jon_y: how can I check if I have the cssu automounter? |
| 14:48.34 | jon_y | dreamer: it should be installed as part of cssu |
| 14:48.43 | jon_y | after you enabled cssu of course |
| 14:49.05 | kerio | "i don't like imap, so nobody should use it" |
| 14:49.37 | dreamer | jon_y: well, I have the 'CSSU Features Configuration' .. |
| 14:49.41 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:49.43 | dreamer | damn, too long since I touched this stuff :P |
| 14:49.49 | FredrIQ | ok, some experimentation |
| 14:50.02 | kerio | StyXman_: hahaha what |
| 14:50.04 | FIQ | and now I recall what the fs-table is on my sd-card |
| 14:50.05 | jon_y | dreamer: try also dmesg|tail? |
| 14:50.09 | kerio | mail is not source code |
| 14:50.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicks kerio, just for fun |
| 14:50.27 | kerio | and git is a bad VCS anyway, so... |
| 14:50.32 | FIQ | p1 is formatted as vfat/fat32/whatever you want to call it, contains an uboot image |
| 14:50.33 | kerio | ouch! |
| 14:50.41 | jon_y | git is Superior |
| 14:50.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | see? he likes it! |
| 14:50.52 | FIQ | p2 is formatted as ext4, contains the rest of the content (i.e. an arch installation) |
| 14:50.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicks kerio, just for more fun |
| 14:51.00 | kerio | stop it dammit |
| 14:51.09 | kerio | IMAPs DocScrutinizer05 |
| 14:51.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | you want more? sure thing! |
| 14:51.20 | FIQ | jon_y: ^ is my structure, do you know why it causes fails? |
| 14:51.29 | jon_y | should be iMaps |
| 14:51.32 | FIQ | dunno if this line was sent: (16:45:51) (FIQ) the only sd-related thing I see is "Driver 'sd' needs updating - please use bus_type methods" |
| 14:51.34 | jon_y | FIQ: not sure |
| 14:51.47 | StyXman_ | kerio: that *should* solve email sync'ing |
| 14:51.54 | jon_y | FIQ: can you mount manually? |
| 14:51.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | <kerio> Doc doesn't like my trolling, Doc must be an asshole |
| 14:51.57 | FIQ | yes |
| 14:51.59 | FIQ | I just did |
| 14:52.02 | kerio | :c |
| 14:52.06 | FIQ | to re-check if what I remembered was true |
| 14:52.11 | FIQ | and it worked just fine |
| 14:52.23 | kerio | i love you docky! <3 |
| 14:52.26 | StyXman_ | kerio: not that I pretend to make a lot of sense... |
| 14:52.39 | kerio | StyXman_: people keep using git for everything |
| 14:52.54 | jon_y | FIQ: sorry, no idea |
| 14:52.56 | kerio | if you just want to sync a directory, just use rsync or something like that |
| 14:53.05 | StyXman_ | kerio: yes, even home dirs... |
| 14:53.10 | FIQ | i.e. I did: mount -t vfat /dev/mmcblk1p1 /mnt && mount -t ext4 /dev/mmcblk1p2 /media/mmc1 |
| 14:53.13 | jon_y | kerio: even several GB size binary |
| 14:53.19 | FIQ | and they mounted fine |
| 14:53.22 | FIQ | Ok, oh well |
| 14:53.26 | FIQ | I can live with that error :p |
| 14:53.34 | StyXman_ | kerio: right |
| 14:53.48 | jon_y | previously, before the automounter script was around, I needed to mess with the automount script |
| 14:53.54 | jon_y | can't remember where it sits |
| 14:54.10 | jon_y | iirc just need to remove -t vfat |
| 14:54.25 | jon_y | let mount guess the fs |
| 14:54.44 | FIQ | the problem is that every time I omit -t vfat, I get "Invalid argument" |
| 14:54.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | get cssu! |
| 14:55.09 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer: I already have SSU.. |
| 14:55.20 | FIQ | s/SS/CSS/ |
| 14:55.24 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 14:55.37 | jon_y | weird, without -t works for me the last time |
| 14:55.50 | jon_y | maybe I remembered wrongly |
| 14:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog ctrl-f ke-recv |
| 14:57.26 | FIQ | oh |
| 14:57.31 | FIQ | 4th jul |
| 14:57.34 | FIQ | I rarely update my system |
| 14:57.37 | FIQ | maybe that's why :D |
| 14:57.55 | FIQ | let's update cssu and see if it makes a difference |
| 14:58.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 14:58.15 | FIQ | hm |
| 14:58.19 | jon_y | make sure to reboot just in case |
| 14:59.29 | fasta | Your download starts in 5 seconds... |
| 14:59.33 | fasta | Why not in 0 seconds? |
| 14:59.45 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer: I never want to touch the "program manager" except if there's a good reason for it, as it's snailspeed is extremly annoying |
| 14:59.45 | fasta | Does it have no mentally prepare the server? |
| 15:00.18 | FIQ | *its' |
| 15:00.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: well, I dunno if you might get away with apt-get upgrade |
| 15:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't suggest it |
| 15:00.58 | *** join/#maemo Zahra (~Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax) |
| 15:01.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU tested against HAM *only* |
| 15:01.13 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer: last time I did that with a CSSU update, it kinda half-updated or something |
| 15:01.21 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 15:01.27 | FIQ | I always upgrade, except for CSSU |
| 15:01.38 | FIQ | *I always apt-get upgrade |
| 15:02.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll survive the unbearable delay, get a good cup of tea! ;-) |
| 15:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | it improves the suspense |
| 15:02.38 | FIQ | heh |
| 15:03.43 | FIQ | which remembers me.. I was going to install bounce evolution some days ago to have something to do when not having a connection on the phone... it failed after 50% progress on HAM (after taking like 30min) :< |
| 15:04.05 | FIQ | and it didn't really tell why except that it... well, failed |
| 15:04.27 | jon_y | HAM is large ham and slow |
| 15:04.43 | jon_y | no idea why it takes so long to wait between app installs |
| 15:07.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: some partly nonsesical recheck of _all_ dependencies, plus a rebuild of that friggin heavy graphical scroll-list |
| 15:07.37 | jon_y | :( |
| 15:07.59 | jon_y | intern wrote it? |
| 15:08.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 15:08.38 | jon_y | if it has to go that route, make it at least take a checkout list or something |
| 15:08.40 | *** join/#maemo sLumPia (~sLumPia@182.12.197.81) |
| 15:08.54 | jon_y | so I don't have to wait for each install to complete before looking for the next app |
| 15:09.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, if somebody really bothered: HAM is FOSS, you could augment it to have checkboxes to mark several packages as "install please", then do it all in one go |
| 15:09.27 | jon_y | shopping cart/check list or whatever its called |
| 15:09.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually there's already such a thing: in backup restore |
| 15:09.51 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@212.152.85.106) |
| 15:10.19 | kerio | there's also such a thing in fapman, but it doesn't work for ovi stuff for obvious reasons |
| 15:10.19 | jonwil | wonders if there is genuine interest in replacing icd or if people just like to bitch about how crap it is |
| 15:10.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | several times thought about creating a generic backup list that just contains _all_ packages |
| 15:10.59 | FIQ | oh |
| 15:11.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you could select/deselect to your liking, then give HAM a go |
| 15:11.03 | FIQ | it's done finally |
| 15:11.14 | FIQ | just took 15 minutes |
| 15:11.18 | FIQ | ... to load the UPDATE LIST |
| 15:11.21 | FIQ | now let's update CSSU |
| 15:11.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 15:11.33 | FIQ | um |
| 15:11.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you should disable some repos? |
| 15:11.44 | FIQ | (null) Install anyway? |
| 15:11.47 | FIQ | ^ huh? |
| 15:11.55 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer: maaybe |
| 15:11.56 | jon_y | :( |
| 15:12.12 | kerio | ssu/mr0/extras-devel/community-testing |
| 15:12.27 | kerio | and HAM is bearable |
| 15:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | kick extras-devel and you're fine |
| 15:12.43 | FIQ | erm |
| 15:12.49 | FIQ | "not enough battery" |
| 15:12.52 | FIQ | what is the requirement? |
| 15:12.55 | FIQ | i have 70% atm |
| 15:13.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 15:13.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | use a charger? |
| 15:13.18 | FIQ | no |
| 15:13.21 | FIQ | broken microUSB |
| 15:13.29 | FIQ | the only charger I have is external |
| 15:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | never heard about requirements re battery in HAM |
| 15:13.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | YAy |
| 15:13.51 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: maemo without the extras repo sucks |
| 15:14.04 | FIQ | so let's see now |
| 15:14.17 | FIQ | I can't remove this requirement? |
| 15:14.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: shutup fool. I said extras-devel |
| 15:14.41 | kerio | extras-devel is like extras, but stuff isn't ancient |
| 15:14.50 | kerio | software in extras is *not* more stable |
| 15:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's also 30 times the size |
| 15:14.57 | kerio | it should be, but it isn't |
| 15:15.15 | FIQ | I'm very sure that the battery will not drop before, and also, I've been able to update PRs before with 20% (through xterm) battery |
| 15:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nobody suggested you keep it disabled |
| 15:15.59 | FIQ | because if I can't, I see no way of properly upgrading CSSU if HAM is the most stable way |
| 15:16.06 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 15:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: as mentioned before, I don't know of any such battery check in HAM (maybe that doesn't mean a thing though) |
| 15:17.01 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer: but there is one |
| 15:17.11 | FIQ | But not with regular updates |
| 15:17.16 | FIQ | Just with "system upgrades" |
| 15:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're sure you didn't try to flash a new kernel? |
| 15:17.23 | FIQ | and CSSU counts as one |
| 15:17.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 15:17.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds about right |
| 15:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway 70% should suffice |
| 15:18.32 | FIQ | i.e. when updating CSSU, there's a window like with PR updates, "Update for Maemo: blablablabla Create backup copy or continue?" and then a battery check |
| 15:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 15:18.50 | kerio | that's when you're updating a package marked sys, or something |
| 15:19.00 | kerio | and mp-community-fremantle-pr is one of those |
| 15:19.02 | kerio | or whatever it's called |
| 15:19.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | never seen that, maybe because usually my battery is 100% when doing updates |
| 15:19.24 | qwazix | Does FCamera york with cssu-thumb? Doesn't work for me |
| 15:19.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: that's what FIQ said |
| 15:19.37 | qwazix | s/york/work/ |
| 15:19.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: quite probably not |
| 15:20.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | though freemangordon(?) clainmed it does |
| 15:20.26 | kerio | qwazix: i think it's made to work with the stock kernel and/or the kernel-power from Pali ONLY |
| 15:20.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 15:20.37 | kerio | if it works anywhere else, it's just because of a coincidence |
| 15:20.44 | freemangordon | vi_: pong |
| 15:20.44 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer: so should I try to update with apt-get? |
| 15:20.46 | freemangordon | zeq: ping |
| 15:20.56 | zeq | Hi freemangordon |
| 15:21.00 | kerio | FIQ: you should shut down, charge your battery, make a backup with backupmenu, and then update with HAM |
| 15:21.10 | kerio | freemangordon! ^_^ |
| 15:21.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: should FIQ upgrade to CSSU-T latest with apt-get upgrade? |
| 15:21.20 | freemangordon | zeq: how to make fennec link with --rpath? |
| 15:21.51 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: lemme see tha backscroll |
| 15:22.05 | qwazix | hm, okay are there any fcam drivers package specifically compiled for kernel-cssu that I should try? |
| 15:22.10 | kerio | [UNOFFICIAL OPINION DONT TAKE SERIOUSLY]upgrading with apt-get should work, but reboot as soon as possible once you're done |
| 15:22.13 | zeq | export LDFLAGS="-Wl,-rpath-link,$PWD/dist/bin/:/usr/lib:/lib -Wl,-rpath,/opt/qtm |
| 15:22.21 | zeq | 12/lib |
| 15:22.29 | dreamer | jon_y: I definitely have cssu installed, at least it's in the settings |
| 15:22.35 | dreamer | but ext2 doesn't get mounted |
| 15:22.45 | freemangordon | zeq: that in debian/rules? |
| 15:22.47 | jon_y | dreamer: sorry, I really have no idea |
| 15:22.55 | jon_y | try ext3 for kicks? |
| 15:23.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | dreamer: which version? |
| 15:23.02 | zeq | that's in mozconfig, just the extra -rpath part |
| 15:23.09 | freemangordon | FIQ: backscroll too long, would you repeat the essencials? |
| 15:23.13 | zeq | -Wl,-rpath,/opt/qtm12/lib |
| 15:23.14 | FIQ | kerio: An interesting thing is that I upgraded to PR1.2 with apt-get w/o problems (I got some strange bugs before reboot however, but that's expected) |
| 15:23.40 | zeq | there's also a patch in our tree which deals with the fennec install directory rpath |
| 15:23.53 | dreamer | DocScrutinizer05: how can I see that? |
| 15:24.02 | dreamer | DocScrutinizer05: ah |
| 15:24.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | settings - about_cssu |
| 15:24.09 | zeq | that gets added by configure since it knows where the install directory is going to end up |
| 15:24.12 | dreamer | DocScrutinizer05: 21.2011.38-1Smaemo3 |
| 15:24.33 | freemangordon | zeq: so, I should puth LDFLAGS = $(LDFLAGS) + -Wl,-rpath,/opt/qtm12/lib |
| 15:24.44 | freemangordon | in debian/tuls that is |
| 15:24.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | dreamer: should work aiui |
| 15:24.59 | zeq | can do, as long as it isn't overridden by mozconfig |
| 15:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | dreamer: please /join #maemo-ssu and ping freemangordon there |
| 15:25.42 | FIQ | freemangordon: cannot update via HAM due to battery requirement (I have 70% atm), i have updated "normal" updates from Nokia through apt-get before just fine with 20%, but: (17:00:40) (FIQ) DocScrutinizer: last time I did that with a CSSU update, it kinda half-updated or something |
| 15:26.06 | FIQ | "I did that" as in "I did update CSSU with apt-get" |
| 15:26.17 | zeq | freemangordon: I'm just about to take my dog for a walk, I'll take my N900, but will chat S L O W L Y :P |
| 15:26.30 | dreamer | DocScrutinizer05: hokay .. |
| 15:26.30 | kerio | FIQ: so... charge your battery |
| 15:26.37 | kerio | eventually you're going to *have* to |
| 15:26.42 | freemangordon | FIQ: connect a charger |
| 15:26.47 | kerio | unless it's 20% of a nuclear battery |
| 15:26.49 | FIQ | kerio: my external charger only goes to 90% |
| 15:26.54 | FIQ | freemangordon: no microUSB |
| 15:26.55 | kerio | freemangordon: usb port is bork |
| 15:26.58 | kerio | FIQ: so? |
| 15:27.03 | freemangordon | FIQ: does not matter, just connect it and update via HAM |
| 15:27.05 | jon_y | RTBGs, last 50 years eaasily |
| 15:27.12 | freemangordon | aah |
| 15:27.28 | freemangordon | well, 20% seems too risky to me |
| 15:27.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: connect what? |
| 15:27.34 | FIQ | um huh? connecting with broken microUSB wont do a thing |
| 15:27.40 | FIQ | but.. it's 70% |
| 15:28.08 | FIQ | I just told that I've done fine with 20% before (so the battery shouldn't be a problem here, just apt-get vs HAM) |
| 15:28.10 | *** join/#maemo zeq1 (~s_j_newbu@31.121.7.63) |
| 15:28.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there's a battery check in HAM for system upgrades, it shouldn't trigger at >=70% |
| 15:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe at 40% |
| 15:28.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 30 |
| 15:28.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | not 70 |
| 15:28.57 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 15:29.01 | FIQ | let's see if my other battery is charged yet |
| 15:29.10 | freemangordon | what is the message from HAM? |
| 15:29.28 | FIQ | "Not enough battery - connect a charger and continue" or something |
| 15:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | verbatim |
| 15:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | if possible ;-) |
| 15:29.52 | FIQ | I've swedish locale at the moment |
| 15:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess freemangordonwants to grep for it |
| 15:30.00 | freemangordon | FIQ: and how many bars you have? |
| 15:30.13 | freemangordon | on battery metter |
| 15:30.36 | FIQ | freemangordon: I can't count them, but it's over half |
| 15:31.00 | freemangordon | hmm, did you try to reboot? |
| 15:31.02 | FIQ | sorry for the lack of info here, but the battery meter doesn't say much |
| 15:31.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, the bars on battery icon are no bars actually ;-P |
| 15:31.39 | FIQ | freemangordon: No, but I've come to a new conclusion - just wait at the moment until my other battery is charged fully and try again |
| 15:31.42 | kgu | Do you know of any mail-apps that could replace modest? |
| 15:31.52 | FIQ | If it still errors, i'll come back |
| 15:32.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: I'd guess your previous run with exploding HAM might have messed up things. So a reboot might be fine |
| 15:32.17 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot7 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 15:32.19 | kerio | kgu: microB :P |
| 15:32.24 | jon_y | btw, anybody know why my nokia about page says version unknown? |
| 15:32.42 | jon_y | its a pr1.3 system |
| 15:33.12 | kgu | kerio: Not really a mail-app.. :) |
| 15:34.17 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 15:35.00 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:35.27 | FredrIQ | Um, the battery indicator changed its' mind after reboot, so now HAM would definetely complain |
| 15:35.35 | zeq | I've created new tarballs for the linaro-4.6/7 compilers http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo |
| 15:35.39 | FredrIQ | now it's more like 40% |
| 15:35.42 | FredrIQ | so I guess I'll just wait |
| 15:35.48 | FredrIQ | until my other battery is charged |
| 15:39.54 | freemangordon | zeq: how we are supposed to use that? |
| 15:40.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: you messed a lot with kernels and stuff? |
| 15:40.16 | FIQ | hmm |
| 15:40.43 | FIQ | speaking of updates, why did nokia release a PR1.3.1? |
| 15:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | cert issue |
| 15:41.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | security update |
| 15:41.14 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: well, it is flashed with uboot |
| 15:41.26 | jon_y | loaded with kp50 |
| 15:41.34 | FIQ | ah |
| 15:41.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | that might be the reason |
| 15:41.59 | jon_y | loading a kernel that is different from flash will give you that? |
| 15:42.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly, but related |
| 15:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not all clear what this closed lib to gather all the systeminfo does |
| 15:43.02 | jon_y | ok, what happened? nobody knows exactly? |
| 15:43.19 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@137.41.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:43.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia would know |
| 15:44.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | search tmo for "CAL" and "version unknown" |
| 15:44.24 | jon_y | tmo? |
| 15:44.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tmo |
| 15:44.41 | infobot | it has been said that tmo is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen. |
| 15:44.54 | jon_y | ok |
| 15:45.10 | jon_y | ~CAL |
| 15:45.10 | infobot | from memory, cal is a calendar. try $(cal 1752) |
| 15:45.24 | zeq1 | freemangordon: just unpack into /scratchbox/compilers |
| 15:45.29 | jon_y | so CAL calendar? |
| 15:45.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | search for "What is CAL?" in tmo |
| 15:46.03 | zeq1 | this time it *should* have the right kernel headers |
| 15:46.04 | jon_y | ok |
| 15:46.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | CAL==config |
| 15:46.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat /proc/mtd |
| 15:47.26 | jon_y | iirc that lists some memory layout |
| 15:48.10 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 15:48.23 | zeq1 | freemangordon: are you hinting I need to write that howto? |
| 15:49.16 | zeq1 | I feel more confident doing so without having to mess with broken kernel headers. :) |
| 15:51.46 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: will the version unknown cause any issues? |
| 15:52.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: not afaik |
| 15:52.28 | jon_y | ok, so its just cosmetic, not too bad |
| 15:53.53 | freemangordon | zeq1: well, actually no, but it will be a good idea actually to have a howto in wiki |
| 16:03.25 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:03.52 | FIQ|n900 | ok, let's see how this goes with this charged battery |
| 16:07.51 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:10.34 | *** join/#maemo APTX (APTX@unaffiliated/aptx) |
| 16:13.36 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 16:14.21 | *** join/#maemo qpx (~qpx@141.45.160.111) |
| 16:15.30 | qpx | hi. are there any good tutorials how to create maemo apps out there? i want to start creating some stuff for n900 |
| 16:17.14 | freemangordon | qpx: http://maemo.org/intro/developer_overview/ |
| 16:17.21 | jonwil | wonders if anyone actually cares about replacing closed-stuff with open-stuff or they just keep complaining about how crap the closed source bits are without being willing to do anything about it... :P |
| 16:17.58 | kgu | Maybe we are just not that skilled :) |
| 16:18.05 | freemangordon | jonwil: those that complain are not doers, just moaners ;) |
| 16:18.38 | jonwil | the question then is, are there any doers out there or am I the only one left who actually wants to do REAL work on this stuff? |
| 16:18.54 | qpx | freemangordon: thanks |
| 16:19.02 | jon_y | or just moaning so those who know what to do know that something is to be done :) |
| 16:19.35 | freemangordon | jonwil: why only you? remember camera-ui , OMP, adeclock, etc,etc |
| 16:19.46 | jonwil | hmmm true |
| 16:19.51 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot7 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 16:19.52 | jon_y | setting up scratchbox soon-ish to screw with n900, but not too soon, busy irl is busy :( |
| 16:20.02 | freemangordon | not to mention the amount of work Pali did on bq-* stuff |
| 16:21.28 | freemangordon | qpx: you are welcome |
| 16:21.40 | *** join/#maemo sLumPia (~sLumPia@182.0.133.183) |
| 16:21.40 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-200-222.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 16:22.50 | zeq1 | jonwil: you were talking about the icd stuff earlier, what does mer use for network management? wouldn't it be easier to port something that works, rather than re-implement the whole thing? |
| 16:23.10 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-200-222.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 16:23.12 | jonwil | yeah I wasnt suggesting writing something new |
| 16:23.48 | jonwil | what I was saying is that we need to come up with something that talks to the same dbus interfaces, gconf keys etc that are expected by other parts of the system |
| 16:23.54 | jonwil | specifically the bits we cant easily change |
| 16:25.10 | jonwil | I think thats why |
| 16:25.35 | jonwil | I think 'that's why things like camera-ui, new clock etc have been attractive for devs is that they can be done without breaking stuff |
| 16:26.11 | Lava_Croft | https://p.twimg.com/AyVoeE2CIAECLM_.jpg:large |
| 16:26.30 | Lava_Croft | out cycling with people, including 3iphones and 2 galaxy s2's |
| 16:26.32 | freemangordon | jonwil: but your question re BME is applicable here as well, for what purpose you want to reimplament icd? |
| 16:26.36 | Lava_Croft | guess which poor N900 was doing all the navigation? |
| 16:27.17 | kgu | Lava_Croft: Which app did you use? |
| 16:27.19 | jonwil | well lots of people have said ICD sucks, also by replacing it with something open it can support things like some of the fancy WiFi security bits that the stock stuff doesn't do |
| 16:27.23 | Lava_Croft | kgu: mappero |
| 16:27.36 | Lava_Croft | i almost exclusively use mappero |
| 16:27.46 | Lava_Croft | sometimes marble, but i cant really get around its gui |
| 16:28.20 | jon_y | now, stick a control system on it and have the phone steer for you :) |
| 16:28.43 | kgu | mappero better than modrana? |
| 16:28.58 | Lava_Croft | i think i saw modrana for 5 seconds |
| 16:28.59 | jon_y | none of the map apps ever work for me :( |
| 16:29.02 | Lava_Croft | then decided this GUI is not for me |
| 16:29.11 | kgu | ok |
| 16:29.16 | Lava_Croft | should i try it? |
| 16:29.20 | Lava_Croft | like, give it a chance? |
| 16:29.23 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:29.29 | Lava_Croft | mappero isnt really updated anymore, iirc |
| 16:29.43 | jon_y | Lava_Croft: does mappero require 3G to operate? |
| 16:29.44 | kgu | maybe, I can't really decide which one I prefer |
| 16:29.59 | kerio | maep is good |
| 16:30.06 | jonwil | so yeah replacing ICD is useful for much the same reasons as replacing BME is useful |
| 16:30.11 | kerio | but it doesn't do voice navigation |
| 16:30.15 | kerio | or... navigation, i think |
| 16:30.17 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:30.27 | FredrIQ|n900 | hey, it worked! |
| 16:30.27 | Lava_Croft | jon_y: depends |
| 16:30.35 | Lava_Croft | 3g is handy if you didnt pre-download maps |
| 16:30.45 | FredrIQ|n900 | and now my SD card mounts properly too :p |
| 16:30.47 | jon_y | ah ok, it can predownload |
| 16:30.51 | Lava_Croft | yeah |
| 16:30.53 | FredrIQ|n900 | not localized though |
| 16:30.55 | Lava_Croft | and it does voice nav |
| 16:30.56 | jonwil | its just that everyone likes to complain about the suckiness of ICD but no-one except me has shown any interest in actually doing anything about it :P |
| 16:31.18 | FredrIQ|n900 | "14,4 gb volume" |
| 16:31.19 | jon_y | the last time I tried, modrana doesn't do predownloads |
| 16:31.25 | Lava_Croft | aw |
| 16:31.38 | Lava_Croft | i think Marble can pre-download |
| 16:31.42 | jon_y | no 3G/data plans make it kind of useless |
| 16:31.57 | Lava_Croft | well, yeah |
| 16:32.05 | Lava_Croft | but no 3g/data plan would make my entire n900 pretty useless |
| 16:32.28 | jon_y | nope, I live off wifi for connectivity :) |
| 16:32.40 | jon_y | occasionally over USB rndis |
| 16:32.46 | Lava_Croft | mostly wifi and 3g here |
| 16:32.48 | Lava_Croft | im on the road a lot |
| 16:32.52 | Lava_Croft | actually |
| 16:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | FredrIQ|n900: hey!! :-D |
| 16:32.55 | Lava_Croft | 90% is 2g |
| 16:33.04 | Lava_Croft | i can stream music fine over 2g |
| 16:33.11 | Lava_Croft | 32kpbs streams:) |
| 16:33.14 | Lava_Croft | kbps |
| 16:33.25 | jonwil | I keep my phone in 2G most of the time (i.e. unless I am doing heavy data stuff) as it saves battery usage |
| 16:33.30 | Lava_Croft | aye |
| 16:33.31 | Lava_Croft | same |
| 16:33.39 | Lava_Croft | i switch to 3g only when i feel i need it |
| 16:33.42 | jon_y | strange that I can get 3G signals in rural areas, but data plans are expensive and idiotic |
| 16:33.50 | jon_y | damn packages |
| 16:33.59 | Lava_Croft | i get 3g fine throughout entire NL |
| 16:34.02 | Lava_Croft | but its a small, flat country |
| 16:34.10 | Lava_Croft | urban areas are worse for 3g here, old buildings ec |
| 16:34.15 | Lava_Croft | they block out everything |
| 16:34.42 | jon_y | yeah, but enough microcells around that signal strength isn't really an issue |
| 16:35.17 | Lava_Croft | 3g coverage in NL is ridiculous for such a shit tiny country |
| 16:35.39 | Lava_Croft | a lot of 'dead' spots |
| 16:36.18 | jon_y | I get 3G signal out in rural areas, with wooden huts and stuff around :| |
| 16:36.32 | jon_y | no, I don't have a data plan |
| 16:36.46 | jon_y | so its left to emergency use only |
| 16:36.55 | Lava_Croft | aw |
| 16:37.07 | Lava_Croft | if i had no data plan, i would just put a 1650 in my pocket |
| 16:37.16 | FIQ|n900 | I've rarely *no 3G at all*, but in areas like this (in the middle of nowhere) it can be a bit ridiculous @stability |
| 16:37.24 | vi_ | freemangordon: upgraded to latest testing cssu-thumb. It totally rules. Thank you. |
| 16:37.51 | FIQ|n900 | as seen in my nice d/c's all the time :3 |
| 16:38.10 | Lava_Croft | dont trust 3g for constant connectivity |
| 16:38.11 | Lava_Croft | ever |
| 16:38.16 | Lava_Croft | trust 2G with that:P |
| 16:38.23 | FIQ|n900 | Lava_Croft: i have dual |
| 16:38.29 | Lava_Croft | i dont like dual |
| 16:38.37 | Lava_Croft | it just annoys me |
| 16:38.44 | FIQ|n900 | so it *should* switch if it miss 3g, shouldn't it? |
| 16:38.49 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 16:39.00 | Lava_Croft | it does so too, for me |
| 16:39.05 | Lava_Croft | which makes my audio stream disconnect |
| 16:39.11 | jon_y | idiot packaging gives you expensive data plans with crappy caps, in addition to ridiculously postpaid voice/sms plans |
| 16:39.12 | FIQ|n900 | I've never got 2g at all here |
| 16:39.23 | jon_y | **ridiculously expensive |
| 16:39.23 | FIQ|n900 | either 3g or nothing, constantly swapping |
| 16:39.25 | Lava_Croft | i have about 1gb of data shoving per month |
| 16:39.29 | Lava_Croft | unlimited sms |
| 16:39.32 | Lava_Croft | and 100 minutes of calling |
| 16:39.39 | Lava_Croft | i got a galaxy nexus with it, which i sold right away |
| 16:39.43 | Lava_Croft | so i could get N9 |
| 16:40.09 | kerio | why didn't you get another n900? :c |
| 16:40.10 | kerio | you traitor |
| 16:40.13 | Lava_Croft | i alreayd have two |
| 16:40.19 | Lava_Croft | and n9 is cute |
| 16:40.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: holy shit you weren't lying about extras-devel being huge |
| 16:40.26 | kerio | it is! |
| 16:40.30 | Lava_Croft | yup! |
| 16:40.37 | Lava_Croft | and theres a lot of shit in it! |
| 16:40.39 | FIQ|n900 | kerio: was that news to you? :P |
| 16:40.55 | Lava_Croft | yes im being called a traitor by someone who is also amazed at the size of extras-devel |
| 16:40.58 | FIQ|n900 | oh god |
| 16:41.01 | Lava_Croft | i guess its time to go do something else |
| 16:41.08 | Lava_Croft | o/ |
| 16:41.19 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: does maemo create a DCIM directory in fat32 partitions? |
| 16:41.21 | jon_y | my n9 comes with angry birds and Need For Speed |
| 16:41.27 | Lava_Croft | jon_y: mine too |
| 16:41.30 | Lava_Croft | and golf lol |
| 16:41.35 | Lava_Croft | first things to remove:) |
| 16:41.36 | jon_y | lol yeah that too |
| 16:41.52 | kerio | why would you remove angry birds? :o |
| 16:41.58 | Lava_Croft | its boring? |
| 16:42.06 | jon_y | no interest in it |
| 16:42.18 | FIQ|n900 | hm golf |
| 16:42.22 | Lava_Croft | the golf game is annoying too |
| 16:42.32 | FIQ|n900 | my previous phone came with some golf app |
| 16:42.36 | Lava_Croft | i think the only N9 games that i actually play is Pocket RPG |
| 16:42.41 | Lava_Croft | game* |
| 16:43.04 | jon_y | now if it came with Nokia 2/3xxx snake game... :) |
| 16:43.18 | FIQ|n900 | the 3d appearence was quite impressive for such a phone (se p1i), but I didn't play it more than to try |
| 16:43.45 | FIQ|n900 | jon_y: :P |
| 16:44.28 | jon_y | the N9 kind of feels weird to use, if you're dealing with call menus |
| 16:44.41 | jon_y | no hard keys make it awkward :( |
| 16:45.06 | jon_y | I guess I'll get that too with any andoid/iphone out there |
| 16:45.49 | jon_y | how do you guys deal with call menus? repeatedly press 0 until the operator shows up? |
| 16:46.49 | kerio | can anything bad happen if i remove osso-games-* |
| 16:46.49 | kerio | ? |
| 16:47.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the trend to have less and less hw-buttons is insane |
| 16:47.42 | FIQ|n900 | doesn't like that trend |
| 16:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *hate* shooting photos with a touchscreen trigger |
| 16:47.44 | jonwil | I for one do NOT want a phone without a hardware keyboard |
| 16:48.02 | jonwil | but I fear that I wont have a choice when I am shopping for my next phone |
| 16:48.12 | jacekowski | jonwil: there are no phones with hw keyboard |
| 16:48.19 | jacekowski | jonwil: that were released in last year |
| 16:48.24 | FIQ|n900 | jonwil: I will never get one, unless the number of alternatives hits 0 |
| 16:48.50 | kerio | hm, i thought the droid 3 had a bunch of keys |
| 16:48.55 | FIQ|n900 | jacekowski: that's evil :< |
| 16:49.09 | jonwil | I think the one company that has made the most phones with hwkbd is RIM |
| 16:49.17 | jonwil | most BlackBerries seem to have hardware keyboard |
| 16:49.23 | kerio | jacekowski: yep, you're lying |
| 16:49.34 | kerio | no, no you're not D: |
| 16:49.41 | kerio | the droid 3 was released on july 14 2011 |
| 16:50.16 | kerio | hm, the droid 4 has a hw kbd |
| 16:50.21 | kerio | so yeah, jacekowski: you're wrong |
| 16:50.48 | FIQ|n900 | some manufacturer should realize that they could do some money of hw-kbd, it would be kinda unique this day.. |
| 16:51.07 | FIQ|n900 | *off |
| 16:51.12 | jon_y | I was told that you're supposed to use bluetooth keyboards |
| 16:51.21 | jonwil | bluetooth keyboards suck |
| 16:51.25 | jon_y | awkward is still awkward |
| 16:51.32 | jonwil | you cant use em when you have no surface to put them on |
| 16:51.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | my hopes for jolla doing that got kinda crushed |
| 16:51.59 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: huh? |
| 16:52.07 | ShadowJK | bt keyboards are fine if you have 3 arms and 3 hands |
| 16:52.19 | FIQ|n900 | also has hopes for that, but.. "crushed"? |
| 16:52.26 | jon_y | sometimes, I miss my old nokia series60 candy bar when dealing with call menus |
| 16:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | smashed, whatever |
| 16:52.35 | jonwil | my guess is that with more and more people shopping for phones based on looks rather than usage, hardware keyboards are no longer in vogue |
| 16:52.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nuked |
| 16:53.06 | jon_y | jonwil: I guess most people don't deal with call menus |
| 16:53.10 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: oh yeah i get the definition.. but why? |
| 16:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | initially tales were jolly will build two devices, one for dumbass users and one for geeks like us |
| 16:53.23 | FIQ|n900 | yeah |
| 16:53.25 | jonwil | call menus are hard enough as it is on my N900 :) |
| 16:53.33 | jon_y | agreed |
| 16:53.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | then some jolla dude corrected that |
| 16:54.07 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:54.28 | kerio | and said that they'll only make the dumbass users one? |
| 16:54.40 | FredrIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer: has that changed? |
| 16:54.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-21 18:53:36] <DocScrutinizer05> then some jolla dude corrected that |
| 16:55.04 | FredrIQ|n900 | to? |
| 16:55.14 | FredrIQ|n900 | what kerio said? |
| 16:55.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | only one device, with a developer mode |
| 16:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I went "WAAAHHAAAHAAAAAAAAAAA! aeggis!" |
| 16:55.36 | FredrIQ|n900 | hm... |
| 16:55.46 | ShadowJK | a real developer mode, or pretend like N9? |
| 16:55.57 | jon_y | I want a phone with real ethernet jacks :) |
| 16:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | allegedly a real one, according to stskeeps |
| 16:56.11 | FredrIQ|n900 | and I guess that means, N9 style no-hw-kbd? |
| 16:56.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | but my hopes for decent hw kbd are mostly gone now |
| 16:56.26 | kerio | hrmpf, the droid 4 has no umts |
| 16:56.53 | ShadowJK | I'm not sure I'd trust the "real" part until I see it :P |
| 16:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | throws a USB->ethernet adapter in jon_y's general direction |
| 16:57.15 | FredrIQ|n900 | will not express his feelings right now |
| 16:57.36 | FredrIQ|n900 | they would just spam this channel |
| 16:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 16:57.51 | FredrIQ|n900 | afk |
| 16:57.52 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: no, USB ethernets don't go 1Gbps |
| 16:58.07 | kerio | jon_y: how convenient, the n900 couldn't do anything remotely useful with 1gbps |
| 16:58.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither does your average SoC |
| 16:58.12 | kerio | heh |
| 16:58.25 | jon_y | yeah, not yet |
| 16:58.53 | jon_y | file transfer would be at least pretty fast |
| 16:58.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, it couldn't even STORE that crap anywhere |
| 16:59.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither deliver |
| 16:59.06 | jon_y | fast enough to saturate the fastest SD cards |
| 16:59.49 | jon_y | and not be bogged down by CPU usage on the host |
| 17:00.06 | jon_y | well, its not happening in reality |
| 17:00.21 | jon_y | goes of dreaming again |
| 17:01.44 | Lava_Croft | goddamn |
| 17:01.49 | Lava_Croft | n900 still makes such nice photographs |
| 17:06.12 | vi_ | till they deliver, joll is vapourware. |
| 17:06.26 | vi_ | Tech companies have hurt my feelings to many times. |
| 17:06.33 | vi_ | I cannot trust anymore. |
| 17:06.38 | vi_ | :'( |
| 17:06.49 | vi_ | ^too |
| 17:07.22 | Lava_Croft | vapourware is a term that is generally not used for stuff like Jolla |
| 17:07.25 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 17:07.39 | Lava_Croft | which is just announced, which sounds rather feasible and which hasnt passed any release dates or whatever, yet |
| 17:08.17 | Lava_Croft | expectations on the other hand |
| 17:08.17 | jon_y | preorder scam? |
| 17:08.19 | Lava_Croft | dont trust those |
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| 17:08.57 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 17:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, announcements had: one device til end of this year. Targeted at both mass market (aka dumbass) and geek users. With some sort of developer mode, which means they will put truszone[TM] to purpose, including the whole broken chain-of-trust concept that is TPM |
| 17:11.04 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 17:11.10 | kerio | wait, what's broken in the concept of TPM? |
| 17:11.11 | Lava_Croft | actually, they never said that a device is promised this year |
| 17:11.14 | Lava_Croft | let alone two devices |
| 17:11.27 | Lava_Croft | they even emphasized that they make no promises |
| 17:11.29 | Lava_Croft | over and over |
| 17:11.37 | Lava_Croft | but their *goal* is a device this year |
| 17:13.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell kerio about aegis |
| 17:13.48 | Lava_Croft | more like tell kerio about Trusted Computing |
| 17:13.55 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: that's not the concept of tpm, that's a particular implementation of tpm |
| 17:14.03 | Lava_Croft | and i personally dont oppose Aegis at all |
| 17:14.04 | kerio | i'm all for tpm where i'm the one with the key to my device |
| 17:14.13 | kerio | sadly, that doesn't really happen |
| 17:14.16 | Lava_Croft | you need something like Aegis in the dumbuser market |
| 17:14.35 | jon_y | and to pander to the service providers |
| 17:14.46 | Lava_Croft | thats included in 'dumbmarket', but yeah |
| 17:14.58 | jon_y | so they can flood you with the latest angry birds promo |
| 17:15.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's nonsense |
| 17:16.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~aegis |
| 17:16.08 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 17:16.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment." is the key |
| 17:16.34 | Lava_Croft | im actually impressed by that whole Aegis thing, that they actually tried to pull it off |
| 17:16.50 | Lava_Croft | jolla will need something better protected than aegis tho! :) |
| 17:16.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | for *evrything* else there are better more mature less prone to abuse solutions already |
| 17:16.55 | jon_y | yep, those dancing angry birds ads on top of the screen |
| 17:17.11 | jon_y | safe from you |
| 17:17.16 | Lava_Croft | Everybody else always knows a better solution to the problem(s) you solved |
| 17:17.18 | jon_y | safe from being deleted |
| 17:17.25 | Lava_Croft | but rarely, those people actually create the solution they advertise |
| 17:17.36 | Lava_Croft | *mostly*, they just whine about the solution you chose to use |
| 17:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | chain of trust is a fucked up concept |
| 17:18.53 | Lava_Croft | God, computers and mobile phones are full of fucked up concepts |
| 17:18.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the root mandatorily isn't at user |
| 17:19.19 | Lava_Croft | i never ever can understand all the fuss that people can create over stuff like this |
| 17:19.36 | Lava_Croft | and im not trying to ridicule you in any way |
| 17:19.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 17:20.02 | Lava_Croft | i can get the general idea of it, and how its inherently broken and bad |
| 17:20.06 | Lava_Croft | but really, why bother |
| 17:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | are you maybe in the wrong channel? shouldn't you enjoy walled garden over at #harmattan? |
| 17:20.39 | Lava_Croft | i love my N900 a whole lot more than my N9 |
| 17:20.48 | Lava_Croft | and i can already see the attitude that spring up in so many places like this |
| 17:20.52 | freemangordon | zeq: i built fennec (cloned from github) but it is very slow compared to previous builds, any clue? |
| 17:20.57 | Lava_Croft | and again you are the source of such an attitude |
| 17:21.00 | *** join/#maemo shanttu (~shanttu@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff55c100-11.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you seem to be the source of fuzzy grunt |
| 17:22.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | if my attitude doesn't please you... well, I couldn't bother less, esp since you seem to content with fuzzy BS statements |
| 17:22.30 | Lava_Croft | but why make a remark like "go to #harmattan" |
| 17:22.32 | Lava_Croft | i mean really |
| 17:22.48 | Lava_Croft | apart from it not being a really productive argument |
| 17:22.53 | Lava_Croft | you are also trying to actively shit on other folks |
| 17:23.03 | Lava_Croft | in this case #harmattan, which are nice people and which is a nice phone with nice software |
| 17:23.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-07-21 19:20:25] <DocScrutinizer05> are you maybe in the wrong channel? shouldn't you enjoy walled garden over at #harmattan? |
| 17:23.09 | Lava_Croft | so what is your problem really |
| 17:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | please reread! |
| 17:23.26 | Lava_Croft | its a broken statement |
| 17:23.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's no statement at all |
| 17:23.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ETX |
| 17:23.54 | jabis | I find aegis a broken statement - tho I like the idea of a security framework |
| 17:23.57 | Lava_Croft | its a statement that disguided as question |
| 17:24.14 | Lava_Croft | i dont oppose aegis, but enjoying it is the other side of the spectrum |
| 17:24.40 | Lava_Croft | poor animosity |
| 17:24.45 | jabis | then again I've argued over the need to be in the users hand - not under a certificate that walls the developing |
| 17:25.05 | Lava_Croft | i would love to place all the power in the user's hands |
| 17:25.09 | Lava_Croft | thats how it should be |
| 17:25.38 | Lava_Croft | but practice proves over and over that the majority of people just cant and dont want to deal with such freedom |
| 17:25.40 | jabis | you can't be creative with your linux if it's behind a dozen closed doors |
| 17:25.54 | Lava_Croft | closed doors are an incentive to be creative, arent they? |
| 17:26.19 | Lava_Croft | its not like the closed door on the n9 made it really hard to enter through the window |
| 17:26.28 | jabis | the freedom to develop apps that could kick ass > the ability to make 100 different camera apps |
| 17:26.46 | jabis | just because you can't |
| 17:26.59 | Lava_Croft | the majority of people just dont care |
| 17:27.03 | Lava_Croft | they just want 'shit to work' |
| 17:27.08 | Lava_Croft | i cant help it:< |
| 17:27.35 | jabis | but they CARE for the apps provided (the "ecosystems" people tend to em about) |
| 17:27.49 | Lava_Croft | but not as much as you would think |
| 17:28.04 | Lava_Croft | and most of the time shit does work on thos walled garden systems |
| 17:28.08 | FIQ|n900 | uhh |
| 17:28.10 | Lava_Croft | no matter how wrong they are in so many ways |
| 17:28.17 | FIQ|n900 | I updated CSSU recently |
| 17:28.20 | jabis | that's the only pitfall I've been hearing about - with non-tech people |
| 17:28.23 | FIQ|n900 | everything worked etc |
| 17:28.24 | jabis | they don't have the apps |
| 17:28.25 | FIQ|n900 | but uh |
| 17:28.40 | FIQ|n900 | now when checking what I have left to update |
| 17:28.46 | FIQ|n900 | CSSU still show up |
| 17:29.05 | FIQ|n900 | why? |
| 17:29.22 | jabis | much like the inability to get a "rare" opportunity to work over VPN |
| 17:30.05 | Lava_Croft | i own n900 because i get immensely annoyed by android, ios whatever |
| 17:30.06 | jabis | every fucking other phone gives you this - if we're not talking about S40-series symbian |
| 17:30.16 | Lava_Croft | because they limit my freedom to do things the way i want |
| 17:30.26 | Lava_Croft | but i rarely ever come across anyone in real life who really cares about such stuff |
| 17:30.29 | *** join/#maemo danishman (~kvirc@62.243.156.218) |
| 17:30.34 | Lava_Croft | and if i do, its a nerd |
| 17:30.57 | Lava_Croft | so why would a company thats trying to be a success in the mobile phone world have to care about user freedom |
| 17:31.13 | Lava_Croft | business wise, its just not really that big of an issue if its open or not |
| 17:31.35 | jabis | I'm talking about businesses adopting any "smartphones" |
| 17:31.46 | Lava_Croft | emphasis on "" indeed |
| 17:32.05 | jabis | at this point a 10million eur business |
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| 17:32.39 | MohammadAG | what's with walled gardens being used a lto :P |
| 17:32.44 | jabis | if one can't do a simple module to enable such communication - it's dropped already |
| 17:33.13 | jabis | hundreds of devices left in the stock |
| 17:33.16 | Sicelo | ~lto |
| 17:33.21 | Lava_Croft | a lot |
| 17:33.39 | jabis | I' |
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| 17:34.19 | jabis | d enjoy a device that has the things needed - no the things you could do, but you can't because you're not a nokia developer x) |
| 17:35.23 | jabis | a simple loop/tap device needed + a few dbus permissions -> all is there but no way to use = poor shit |
| 17:36.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | jabis: and still that's the whole concept of chain-of-trust |
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| 17:38.30 | jabis | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way |
| 17:39.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it starts with there's no such role as superuser in that concept. There isn't _any_ roles |
| 17:41.18 | jabis | I'm talking about authority - not privileges |
| 17:42.30 | jabis | thus authority has superceding control over the chain of trust - and authority being in hands of user - not distributor |
| 17:43.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not chain of trust |
| 17:43.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's age old permissions |
| 17:45.08 | jabis | no - chain of trust relies for example some certificates - but authority is the user accepting the certs |
| 17:45.23 | Sicelo | i will probably never understand why locking devices down is said to protect users :/ |
| 17:45.32 | jabis | what nokia enforces is more a monopoly than a chain of trust |
| 17:45.33 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: here is an OT question. I want to deply a ftp server in a place with lot of power outages (no backup UPS). a) Is it possible to build a read only linux root. b) Is SSD a better choice than HDD for power failures? |
| 17:46.38 | jabis | Monopoly -> A single CA acting also as RA -> One key to rule them all... -> All signing is done with this single key |
| 17:46.45 | trumee | would have preferred a router running openwrt. but these things dont have the cpu grunt to do transcoding |
| 17:47.39 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: the server will be a mythtv server actually |
| 17:49.25 | jabis | chain of trust paradigm is much more hard to grasp |
| 17:49.57 | kerio | trumee: it's definetely possible to build a read only linux root |
| 17:50.07 | kerio | and if the system is read only, it should make no difference |
| 17:50.33 | trumee | kerio: is hdd prone to failure on power outage comapred with ssd? |
| 17:50.33 | kerio | so i'd go ssd |
| 17:50.48 | kerio | ssd's problems are with writing, not reading |
| 17:50.55 | kerio | so... sure, i guess |
| 17:50.57 | freemangordon | zeq1: dammit, fennec nightly scores 8300 ms vs 6133ms for previous builds, WTF? |
| 17:51.16 | freemangordon | zeq1: sunspider that is |
| 17:51.26 | jabis | ssd is still a mess - I'd go with hdd |
| 17:51.38 | jabis | perhaps a raptor ^^ |
| 17:52.06 | kerio | jabis: it's going to be a read-only system |
| 17:52.19 | kerio | trumee: hell, go with something even smaller and easily replaceable |
| 17:52.20 | trumee | kerio: the only problem is that i need a mysql server running, and that will need a rw fs :( |
| 17:52.21 | kerio | like a sd |
| 17:52.37 | jabis | so a raptor |
| 17:52.53 | kerio | trumee: how much space do you need? |
| 17:53.34 | jabis | kerio, read-only or not - I still feel hdd more solid than ssd in longevity |
| 17:55.19 | trumee | kerio: few gb i would have guessed. |
| 17:55.43 | trumee | jabis: the machine is going to see about random 5-6 power cycles each day |
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| 18:15.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: use a hdd with a journaling fs (ext3/4 for example) |
| 18:16.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: if you wanna do even more: there are PSU with some 2 or 5 seconds backup via capacitors |
| 18:17.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | a proper linux should be able to emergency shutdown in that time |
| 18:17.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. do sync |
| 18:17.29 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: this PSU is interesting, link? |
| 18:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, sorry |
| 18:18.06 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: i have had corruption with reiserfs before due to power failure |
| 18:22.29 | freemangordon | zeq: ping |
| 18:22.57 | jabis | reiser isn't a popular choice for concurrency |
| 18:23.48 | trumee | jabis: this was about 10 years ago |
| 18:24.26 | trumee | jabis: i dont have much expectations on journalling fs since then |
| 18:24.39 | jabis | I'm talking about 2012 - reiser isn't a good FS choice for what you're talking about |
| 18:25.18 | ShadowJK | imagines a ups with that psu is even better |
| 18:25.34 | ShadowJK | but people tend to forget to change the batteries every 2 years |
| 18:25.55 | trumee | ShadowJK: i have using a APC ups and have had lot of problems |
| 18:26.21 | trumee | ShadowJK: these UPS are not built for an environment which sees 5-6 outages each day |
| 18:26.36 | trumee | ShadowJK: the batteries die away very quickly |
| 18:26.38 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 18:26.56 | trumee | so i would rather hook the system to the mains rather than go with a UPS |
| 18:27.48 | ShadowJK | The "entry level" or "small office" UPSen dont work with active pfc psus very well |
| 18:28.33 | ShadowJK | It's important to never deplete the batteries, so you need to dimension them according to that, and do quick shutdown of computer |
| 18:28.58 | trumee | this is what i have, http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1000UXI&total_watts=50 |
| 18:29.10 | trumee | ShadowJK: it is a sine-wave ups for active pfc |
| 18:29.59 | ShadowJK | how long do batteries endure? |
| 18:29.59 | trumee | ShadowJK: buying an active pfc psu was a mistake i commited. should have used a passive psu, i could have used an entry level ups |
| 18:30.07 | trumee | ShadowJK: 2 months |
| 18:30.10 | ShadowJK | wow |
| 18:30.13 | ShadowJK | hot? |
| 18:30.18 | trumee | ShadowJK: exactly! |
| 18:30.28 | ShadowJK | how hot? |
| 18:30.39 | trumee | ShadowJK: 45+ |
| 18:30.46 | trumee | ShadowJK: 45C + |
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| 18:31.22 | trumee | ShadowJK: that is the peak temperature though |
| 18:31.34 | ShadowJK | ah that explains it |
| 18:32.38 | trumee | so i am seeking an alternative of a readonly fs and get rid of UPS |
| 18:33.00 | trumee | only problem i have is a damn mysql server i need |
| 18:33.37 | ShadowJK | laptop? |
| 18:33.40 | ShadowJK | ;P |
| 18:33.59 | ShadowJK | though battery there would die in 6 months too |
| 18:35.09 | trumee | ShadowJK: is there no smart mysql which keeps a copy of itself, and uses a previous copy if the current one is corrupt |
| 18:35.35 | trumee | doesnt care much about the mysql data loss since it is storing only the tv program guide |
| 18:35.44 | ShadowJK | *sql* and smart rarely go together |
| 18:37.35 | trumee | ShadowJK: how about managing db backups using a script? rootfs copies over the db on each bootup |
| 18:38.10 | trumee | ShadowJK: and saves db every hour |
| 18:38.41 | trumee | also, is it possible to have the partition/usb drive with db to have no cache |
| 18:39.01 | trumee | that way everything will be in sync to minimise loss |
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| 18:43.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: actually a laptop is a smart alternative |
| 18:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: you just should make sure the battery doesn't get too warm |
| 18:46.03 | trumee | DocScrutinizer05: the server hosts a few tv cards. should i use laptop just for the rw fs and server for tv cards and readonly fs |
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| 18:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 18:49.53 | Macer | i'm in seattle |
| 18:50.06 | Macer | connecting.. to get to the rough and tough mean streets of pasco washington lol |
| 18:51.44 | Macer | blah |
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| 19:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: if your UPS batteries get too warm, consider placing them outside the UPS case |
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| 19:08.21 | zeq | freemangordon: pong |
| 19:08.30 | zeq | freemangordon: I was out having dinner :) |
| 19:09.35 | zeq | freemangordon: I'll rebase again and push if it helps |
| 19:09.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: however I think most important thing is to shut down PC and UPS quickly |
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| 19:10.49 | Kiborg | I don't get it. I tried to flash the system to fix the infinity rebooting problem. The problem is that the Flasher program just starts and closes instantly. |
| 19:11.05 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 19:11.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 19:11.08 | infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:11.25 | Macer | Kiborg: make sure you are running a proper version of flasher |
| 19:11.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Kiborg: the flasher program doesn't "open" and "close" |
| 19:11.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a commandline program |
| 19:11.44 | Macer | you also have to run it as administrator or root from the prompt |
| 19:11.48 | Macer | or commandline |
| 19:12.04 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05: what ever happened to the windows program that did it all fo ryou? :) |
| 19:12.13 | Macer | like.. next next next flash done |
| 19:12.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, I thought that been a hoax? |
| 19:12.27 | Macer | you can't even find that naymore |
| 19:12.41 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05: huh it was a nokia app |
| 19:12.57 | Macer | the one that came with the N900 and N810... it downloaded the update and flashed it |
| 19:13.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, a windows app. So NFC here |
| 19:13.07 | Kiborg | it opens in cmd doesn't it? |
| 19:13.11 | Macer | LOL |
| 19:13.22 | Macer | Kiborg: flasher has to be ran manually |
| 19:13.30 | Macer | so yes... you open cmd |
| 19:13.39 | Macer | then run it |
| 19:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Windows 6. |
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| 19:15.12 | Macer | ugh |
| 19:15.18 | Macer | stuck waiting for my airplane |
| 19:15.35 | Macer | boarding time is 1:05pm pst |
| 19:15.49 | Macer | 50 more minutes before i can boad |
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| 19:18.59 | Kiborg | For EU I take global one? |
| 19:19.21 | Macer | i think nowadays you pick global for everything |
| 19:19.32 | Kiborg | ok |
| 19:20.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | cackles comparing length of windows related instructions vs linux related, on http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:22.02 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178204036.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang it MUST be flashing weekend or somesuch |
| 19:23.26 | Macer | hehh |
| 19:23.31 | Macer | i still have to flash my n810 |
| 19:23.45 | Macer | i don't even know why |
| 19:24.03 | Macer | i was going to toss it in a car to do something with it i suppose |
| 19:24.12 | Macer | with an bt obd2 reader |
| 19:24.19 | Macer | an/a |
| 19:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | obd2? |
| 19:25.14 | Sicelo | :P |
| 19:25.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 19:25.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki obd2 |
| 19:26.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaaah |
| 19:26.42 | Macer | cyeah |
| 19:26.44 | Macer | maemo4 still has carman |
| 19:27.04 | Macer | which looks up the codes for you if a test engine light comes on.. also shows you your fuel mixture on the fly |
| 19:27.13 | Macer | and alerts you if you are running too rich or lean |
| 19:27.26 | freemangordon | zeq: yeah, rebase it. I was thinking to but fennec build in cssu-thumb repo, but it is unusably slow now :( |
| 19:27.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice |
| 19:28.09 | Macer | obd2 does have quite a bit of information |
| 19:28.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I ponder to use my N810 as a door bell plate, with camera and voice |
| 19:28.29 | Macer | i wanted to use the n810 on my 94 caprice but it is an older obd... some weird hybrid |
| 19:28.37 | Macer | lol... the cam sucks tho :) |
| 19:28.48 | Macer | plus... the cam doesn't support h264 |
| 19:28.57 | Macer | you'd have to write something that supported lame h263 or something |
| 19:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | just fine enough for my ugly unsolicited visitors ;-P |
| 19:29.11 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 19:29.23 | Macer | well.. it is more the supported codec than anything |
| 19:29.38 | Macer | which is why the lame ass cam wouldn't support gtalk video chatting :-/ |
| 19:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't care about codec as long as other end can decode it |
| 19:29.55 | Macer | lol |
| 19:29.58 | Macer | if it even can |
| 19:30.05 | Macer | :) |
| 19:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | even thought about using mirror on my other N810 and sshfs mounting the /dev on the door plate |
| 19:30.29 | Macer | the cam was the n810s biggest blunder |
| 19:30.44 | Macer | they just took the n800 and shoved it into a case with a keyboard and slapped a gps on it in favor for a radio receiver |
| 19:31.09 | Macer | and called it "new" ... i think that's where apple got the iphone upgrade path idea from |
| 19:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe |
| 19:31.47 | Macer | what type of freq does the gps system use? |
| 19:31.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 19:31.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 19:32.02 | Macer | i'm wondering if they just reprogrammed the fm radio receiver |
| 19:32.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | noooo |
| 19:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 19:32.14 | Macer | to receive gps signals instead of fm :) |
| 19:32.17 | Macer | MADE IN CHINA! |
| 19:32.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | some 1.6GHz |
| 19:32.25 | Macer | oh |
| 19:32.30 | Macer | guess not then :) |
| 19:33.02 | Macer | i wonder how much power those sats use |
| 19:33.05 | Macer | to send the signal |
| 19:33.21 | Macer | i mean.. they probably receive sunlight all the time.. but still |
| 19:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd really wonder what ntfs/whatever bandwidth you'd need to access raw /dev/video |
| 19:34.17 | Macer | on the n810 |
| 19:34.18 | Macer | ? |
| 19:34.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 19:34.31 | Macer | i doubt much |
| 19:34.40 | Macer | well.. not much by today's standards |
| 19:34.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | (power) guestimate: 100W |
| 19:34.55 | zeq | freemangordon: pushed |
| 19:36.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | GPS IIR 1,136 kW total |
| 19:38.13 | Macer | 1,100 kilowatts?? |
| 19:38.37 | Macer | isn't tha tlike... a MW? |
| 19:38.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS#Satellite_frequencies |
| 19:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's german |
| 19:38.53 | Macer | kW? |
| 19:38.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 1.1 kW |
| 19:39.01 | Macer | kW = Mhz? |
| 19:39.13 | Macer | or power output? |
| 19:39.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | total power |
| 19:39.39 | Macer | because a megawatt is a LOT |
| 19:39.44 | Macer | for a radio |
| 19:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | just 1.1kW, not 1100kW |
| 19:40.01 | Macer | oh |
| 19:40.12 | Macer | . is far different than , |
| 19:40.16 | Macer | in germany they use , instead of . ? |
| 19:40.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 19:40.28 | Macer | how does that not confuse people? |
| 19:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Europe is used to it ;-P |
| 19:40.49 | Macer | fair enough |
| 19:40.52 | Macer | used to the metric system too ;) |
| 19:41.03 | Macer | we're over here on the imperial system still... we just hate europe |
| 19:41.07 | Macer | lets be honest |
| 19:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS#GPS_IIR |
| 19:47.10 | vi_ | Only 3 countries in the world still use the imperial system. |
| 19:47.15 | vi_ | Liberia. |
| 19:47.19 | vi_ | Burhma. |
| 19:47.24 | vi_ | And USA. |
| 19:47.28 | ShadowJK | Also even if you had a software radio, you would probably not have the CPU to decode GPS |
| 19:47.30 | vi_ | I think that says a lot. |
| 19:47.43 | Macer | aren't those all US type places? |
| 19:47.53 | Macer | i know Liberia was created to send negroes back to africa |
| 19:48.10 | Macer | not too sure about Burhma .. but i thought it didn't exist anymore |
| 19:48.45 | zeq | freemangordon: my latest fennec build with gcc47 seems ok. still really slow to load pages though! Not sure if MOZ_ACCELERATED=1 is working or not... |
| 19:49.02 | vi_ | Honestly, the imperial measurments system should have been BURIED decades ago. |
| 19:49.17 | vi_ | I do not measure things in bushels or rods thank you. |
| 19:49.33 | Macer | vi_: LOL.. yeah.. honestly.. i agree ;) |
| 19:49.45 | Macer | but try converting hillbillies and ignorant people to a new system |
| 19:49.47 | Macer | it would be chaos |
| 19:49.47 | freemangordon | zeq: MOZ_ACCELERATED=1 means enable HW acceleration, but you don't really need it |
| 19:50.03 | freemangordon | there are entries in about:config for that purpose |
| 19:50.08 | freemangordon | zeq: ^^^ |
| 19:50.14 | Macer | vi_: the one that confuses me the most.. is the "dozen" |
| 19:50.19 | zeq | up to now it's had the effect of black flickering you described before |
| 19:50.23 | Macer | wtf is up with the number 12 that it gets its own special name? |
| 19:50.44 | zeq | now no errors, maybe the env var is ignored now? |
| 19:50.46 | Macer | too bad the world didn't start off working with an 8 base system |
| 19:50.57 | Macer | imagine how easily peopl ewould understand binary numbers nowadays if it were heh |
| 19:51.02 | ShadowJK | dozen is the only one that survives, there were many other names too |
| 19:51.19 | Macer | ShadowJK: for 12? |
| 19:51.21 | freemangordon | zeq: NFC, justpulled master, lemme build and check what's going on |
| 19:51.43 | Macer | we use the 12" foot heh |
| 19:51.55 | freemangordon | zeq: could that regression of speed be related to some jscrib zlib changes in Makefile? |
| 19:51.59 | Macer | because i guess 12" was a common foot size in the colonial days? |
| 19:52.04 | ShadowJK | not for 12, but for all sorts of measurements |
| 19:52.04 | freemangordon | *jscript |
| 19:52.37 | Macer | i don't understand why the colonists weren't using the metric system anyways |
| 19:52.47 | Macer | didn't the metric system come out before the US was reated? |
| 19:52.51 | Macer | created |
| 19:53.02 | ShadowJK | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dozen |
| 19:53.09 | zeq | freemangordon: I may not be losing noticible performance because I compiled with -ftree-vectorize, -ffast-math and -fgraphite? |
| 19:53.26 | zeq | it seems fast except for the page loading time |
| 19:54.21 | zeq | freemangordon: I can't see how it could have anything to do with zlib |
| 19:54.50 | freemangordon | zeq: run sunspider please. wothout OC and tell me the result |
| 19:55.03 | Macer | ShadowJK: wow.. lots of history behind the dozen |
| 19:55.11 | Macer | ah well. my flight is about to start boarding in about 10 minutes.. ttyl |
| 19:55.17 | zeq | freemangordon: you might want to try enabling elfhack. It doesn't work with the qemu-arm-sb that comes with Gentoo scratchbox, I don't know if the same applies for you. |
| 19:55.30 | zeq | freemangordon: ok |
| 19:55.37 | freemangordon | elfhack? |
| 19:55.43 | freemangordon | ~elfhack |
| 19:56.14 | zeq | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Elfhack |
| 19:57.37 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~brzys@87-205-232-245.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 20:00.27 | freemangordon | zeq: how to enable that? |
| 20:01.59 | zeq | freemangordon: it's disabled explictily in mozconfig |
| 20:02.02 | zeq | default is enabled |
| 20:02.07 | zeq | (I think) |
| 20:03.49 | freemangordon | ok, lemme check it |
| 20:05.27 | freemangordon | zeq: yes, ac_add_options --disable-elf-hack |
| 20:05.34 | freemangordon | zeq: did you add that? |
| 20:05.36 | vi_ | hillbillies and rednecks, I get it now. We use metric, base10 because we have 10 fingers, toes etc. Inbred hillbillies use base12 because of the extra fingers. |
| 20:05.49 | zeq | It fails in my qemu |
| 20:06.00 | freemangordon | ok, i'll try it here |
| 20:06.35 | vi_ | < Macer> didn't the metric system come out before the US was reated? |
| 20:06.45 | zeq | freemangordon: assuming my battery lasts sunspider is underway |
| 20:06.49 | vi_ | there are bars in Edinburgh that are older than USA. |
| 20:08.36 | zeq | freemangordon: I just accidently locked my N900! Never done that before, don't know the default code...?!?! |
| 20:09.01 | merlin1991 | 12345 or something |
| 20:09.20 | zeq | :D |
| 20:09.26 | zeq | merlin1991: thanks! :) |
| 20:09.32 | freemangordon | unlocked? |
| 20:10.39 | zeq | yup, although also rebooted |
| 20:10.50 | freemangordon | /home/maemo/workspace/thumb/tmp/fennek/fennec-qt-maemo5/obj-build/build/unix/elfhack/elfhack -b -f test.so |
| 20:10.50 | freemangordon | test.so: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error' |
| 20:11.13 | freemangordon | elfhack don't work here too |
| 20:12.04 | *** join/#maemo npm (~npm@cpe-76-168-113-151.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:13.29 | *** join/#maemo bsdmaniak (~bsdmaniak@std93-20-88-120-139-80.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:16.36 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@81-174-50-160.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 20:16.56 | freemangordon | zeq: but it seems to be a linker problem, not qemu |
| 20:17.06 | freemangordon | could be wrog of course |
| 20:17.42 | zeq | I thought that first of all, but last time I tried it I got an illegal instruction from qemu |
| 20:17.53 | zeq | still could be binutils though |
| 20:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: there's no SI equivalent for one hilbilly - it's inconvertible |
| 20:18.43 | zeq | maybe we should use 2.22.5x.x? |
| 20:19.16 | freemangordon | hmm, most probably we should use older binutils than newer |
| 20:19.23 | zeq | 2.22 is what I'n using on my laptop |
| 20:19.46 | freemangordon | anyway, I will leave that for now, lets see how is the performance with latest nightly |
| 20:19.47 | zeq | 2.22.52.0.4.20120604 on my server LOL |
| 20:20.26 | zeq | sunspider is running at the moment |
| 20:20.26 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@81-174-50-168.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 20:20.44 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 20:22.43 | freemangordon | zeq: well, we'll compare compilers too that way :D |
| 20:23.12 | zeq | not too impressive |
| 20:23.31 | freemangordon | ? |
| 20:23.32 | zeq | @600Mhz 8565.7 |
| 20:23.50 | freemangordon | hmm, it is even worse :( |
| 20:23.53 | freemangordon | WTF? |
| 20:24.03 | freemangordon | no pint to compile it here |
| 20:24.03 | zeq | feels quite quick though |
| 20:24.04 | zeq | :/ |
| 20:24.10 | freemangordon | *point |
| 20:24.42 | zeq | obviously some JIT engine "upgrade" |
| 20:25.09 | zeq | Compiler probably wouldn't make much difference to jscript |
| 20:25.33 | zeq | afterall it's a code generator itself |
| 20:26.08 | zeq | it's not going to be the bottle-neck |
| 20:26.22 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD29586.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:26.42 | freemangordon | zeq: but WTF, almost 2 times slower. damn |
| 20:27.42 | freemangordon | zeq: what was the addres of mozzilla chat server? |
| 20:27.52 | freemangordon | *address |
| 20:27.55 | zeq | irc.mozilla.org |
| 20:29.27 | freemangordon | #mobile? |
| 20:29.35 | zeq | yup |
| 20:30.19 | freemangordon | i'll try to ping romaxa for some help on that issue |
| 20:30.39 | zeq | ok |
| 20:31.52 | vi_ | freemangordon: browserd is now using around half the RAM it did before. |
| 20:32.07 | zeq | vi_: :) |
| 20:32.15 | freemangordon | vi_: well, maybe 10-20% less :) |
| 20:33.06 | vi_ | freemangordon: well for me browserd used to sit around 10-13% |
| 20:33.18 | vi_ | Now it sits around 6% |
| 20:33.25 | vi_ | which is great. |
| 20:33.39 | vi_ | So great in fact I am dedicating this next beer to you. |
| 20:33.46 | vi_ | pssssht |
| 20:34.34 | zeq | freemangordon: I've gotta go. Might be back later... |
| 20:34.40 | freemangordon | zeq: ok |
| 20:36.55 | *** join/#maemo Dibblah_ (~Dibblah@host86-143-248-27.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:49.50 | *** join/#maemo ced117_ (~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-26-202.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 21:15.53 | zeq | freemangordon: just learnt of "about:support" |
| 21:16.25 | *** join/#maemo wicket64 (~wicket@81-86-240-143.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 21:16.27 | freemangordon | and...? |
| 21:16.36 | freemangordon | anything helpful here? |
| 21:16.47 | freemangordon | *there |
| 21:17.39 | zeq | usefully it shows crash info (supposedly) and it confirmed for me I'm not using hw accel |
| 21:19.29 | kerio | in microB? |
| 21:19.32 | kerio | no kidding |
| 21:19.45 | zeq | kerio: fennec |
| 21:19.50 | kerio | even worse! |
| 21:20.12 | zeq | kerio: surely hw accel would be a good thing? :) |
| 21:20.26 | kerio | yeah, but i don't expect that to work on a linux desktop |
| 21:20.35 | kerio | let alone the n900 |
| 21:21.06 | zeq | romaxa has had it working (so he says) with ~60fps page rendering |
| 21:21.53 | kerio | sweet |
| 21:22.23 | zeq | that was a while ago and the patches need reworking I believe |
| 21:22.43 | freemangordon | zeq: I was thinking... isn't it better to use some older and stable version. |
| 21:22.50 | freemangordon | i.e 14 or 15 |
| 21:22.57 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:23.11 | freemangordon | ]16 gets worse with every nightly |
| 21:23.55 | zeq | freemangordon: yes, and no. we're more likely going to get help from romaxa getting support mainlined with mozilla-central... but I think it might be worth taking a dual approach |
| 21:24.19 | freemangordon | I think we can alwasy backort whatever romaxa do |
| 21:24.25 | freemangordon | *backport |
| 21:24.52 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~parul@188-222-165-248.zone13.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:25.09 | zeq | freemangordon: I have to say, I'm a bit surprised about the amount of churn, things applied then reverted hours later... |
| 21:25.48 | freemangordon | zeq: do you remember when fennec was fast? I mean around what date, so we can do bisect easy |
| 21:25.55 | *** join/#maemo jluisn (~quassel@187.114.216.86) |
| 21:26.16 | zeq | I suggest you look in the irc log for your previous sunspider results |
| 21:26.45 | *** join/#maemo monoceros (u6873@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xphzqwxldemsfhki) |
| 21:27.25 | freemangordon | hmm, I think it was around 9 or 10 of July, lemme check |
| 21:28.20 | zeq | freemangordon: I don't remember the plugin-container taking up more memory than the main process when we started |
| 21:30.25 | zeq | freemangordon: we need romaxa to pass on his hw accel patchset and work from whatever the latest release that applies to |
| 21:31.28 | japh | ls |
| 21:34.06 | *** join/#maemo 20WAAXGSE (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 21:35.23 | freemangordon | zeq: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-07-04.log.html#t2012-07-04T15:36:16 |
| 21:36.04 | zeq | freemangordon: that was @600Mhz? |
| 21:36.11 | freemangordon | i think so, not sure |
| 21:37.14 | zeq | fwiw they seem to have fixed that https google problem now |
| 21:37.25 | freemangordon | but it does not matter if it is 600 or 805 |
| 21:37.29 | zeq | and page-loading is faster than before |
| 21:37.45 | freemangordon | hmm, i'll need to backport the fix to microb :D |
| 21:38.16 | kerio | freemangordon: but only your thumb-compiled one! |
| 21:38.21 | kerio | vendor lockdown, baby! |
| 21:38.34 | zeq | freemangordon: how similar is the mozilla codebase to microb-engine? |
| 21:40.20 | zeq | apart from the lower sunspider score, my current fennec build isn't too bad. most serious bug I've found is when attempting to use hw accel crashes it, I have to nuke ~/.mozilla/fennec to get it to start-up again without crashing! |
| 21:41.11 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~SpeedEvil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
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| 21:41.40 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 21:42.46 | zeq | freemangordon: are you going to rebase on a commit from that date and test? |
| 21:42.56 | freemangordon | kerio: it works in non-thumb microb afaik, at least that is what was reported, didn't tried it myself |
| 21:43.16 | zeq | feel free to push it to a new branch on github |
| 21:43.22 | freemangordon | zeq: I am still wondering what to do, but first I will wait for current build to finish |
| 21:43.33 | zeq | may as well keep tracking mozilla-central on master |
| 21:44.43 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@ip-89-102-184-66.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 21:45.24 | freemangordon | zeq: WTF? virtual keyboard does not pop up when address bar is clicked |
| 21:45.36 | freemangordon | that was working, for sure |
| 21:45.46 | zeq | let me check |
| 21:46.01 | zeq | worksforme |
| 21:46.03 | freemangordon | aah, my fault |
| 21:46.24 | freemangordon | it's my second n900 with "use virtual keyboard" disabled |
| 21:46.33 | zeq | ah |
| 21:46.52 | zeq | we still need to rip out all that keyboard handling code |
| 21:47.11 | freemangordon | yep |
| 21:48.15 | zeq | going to let the dog in the garden brb |
| 21:48.21 | freemangordon | zeq: debian/fennec//opt/fennec-17.0a1 |
| 21:48.23 | freemangordon | ??? |
| 21:48.40 | freemangordon | this is fennec 17, LOL |
| 21:48.50 | zeq | they don't hang around! :P |
| 21:57.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the heck jollamobile quite since almost 6 hours |
| 21:57.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually *almost* since 24 hours |
| 21:58.41 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~Hurrian@121.54.2.104) |
| 22:00.06 | SpeedEvil | Weekend secret meeting. |
| 22:00.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: probably even close to truth |
| 22:00.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | they have private channels |
| 22:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the missing noise from eventual lurkers is quite scary |
| 22:02.07 | ShadowJK | what, is there a channel? |
| 22:02.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | esp since yesteray morning the TV news opened with "Nokia made another 1.1 E9 EUR minus in last quartal" |
| 22:02.17 | FIQ|n900 | #jollamobile ? |
| 22:02.21 | ShadowJK | oh |
| 22:02.39 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, amusingly analysts took that as positive news, nokia stock went up like 18% or something crazy |
| 22:02.50 | SpeedEvil | Heh. |
| 22:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah ROTFL |
| 22:03.32 | ShadowJK | There's some sliver of truth in that, the costs of downsizing are pretty extreme, but one-time in nature |
| 22:03.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | cought 18 bullets but still alive. I put all my money on the bloody guy on the floor |
| 22:03.58 | ShadowJK | Like, Jolla itself allegedly is mostly funded by Nokia at this point? |
| 22:04.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I doubt that |
| 22:04.28 | ShadowJK | For sure they have received seed capital |
| 22:04.30 | SpeedEvil | Contractual commitments to me ego? |
| 22:04.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, you never know |
| 22:04.53 | SpeedEvil | Or seed capital from redundancies? |
| 22:05.23 | SpeedEvil | I guess not public. |
| 22:05.29 | ShadowJK | According to .fi newspaper reporting, Jolla cam out of the "incubator program" that Nokia had to setup, to support former employees setting up new companies |
| 22:05.40 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 22:05.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | what are a few dozen mio if you can pay 1.1 bio per 3 months from your coffe stash |
| 22:06.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly I guess there are other VC entities involved |
| 22:07.12 | ShadowJK | I wonder how much money do you need to gave foxconn or someone make 50,000 devices |
| 22:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that "incubator program" was about as much as "you get fired in 6 month, but you can take some time off right now" afaik |
| 22:07.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: easy: 50,000 * sales/3 |
| 22:08.11 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: funniest thing with the positve reaction to the financial report, was of the smartphones shipped, most were NOT WP7 |
| 22:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that too |
| 22:09.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: probably the reason for the +18% |
| 22:09.30 | ShadowJK | WP7 sales did double, and they said "sales" this time, not "shipped" |
| 22:09.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | from 1000 to 2000? |
| 22:09.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 22:09.54 | ShadowJK | And they said they were late to WP7 party, but have front row seats at WP8 party |
| 22:09.55 | zeq | sales to AT&T warehouses? |
| 22:10.20 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@70.43.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:10.41 | FIQ|n900 | nokia should've realized that the wp-train was a bad idea |
| 22:10.50 | FIQ|n900 | oh... duh, it's elop |
| 22:10.52 | FIQ|n900 | nvm |
| 22:11.33 | zeq | DocScrutinizer05: fixed jollamobile for you ;) |
| 22:13.43 | freemangordon | zeq: https google still gives certificate error, probably you have tls disable in about:config |
| 22:14.02 | zeq | nope |
| 22:14.04 | zeq | interesting |
| 22:14.17 | zeq | freemangordon: must be fixed by my toolchain...? |
| 22:14.24 | zeq | weird |
| 22:14.25 | freemangordon | yep |
| 22:14.50 | freemangordon | seems toolchain related, time to switch to yours :) |
| 22:15.55 | zeq | freemangordon: note though you'll need to rebuild qt4 with the gcc47 patch to build against it, including fennec |
| 22:16.14 | freemangordon | why i should rebuild qt? |
| 22:16.28 | zeq | and qt4 won't itself build with 4.7 currently, not a huge problem though |
| 22:17.09 | freemangordon | zeq: for what eason i need to rebuild qt with gcc 4.7 |
| 22:17.32 | zeq | there's a header with a bug |
| 22:17.42 | zeq | you could just change the header I guess |
| 22:17.55 | zeq | to me that's even worse ;) |
| 22:18.00 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 22:18.36 | freemangordon | and what version is yours 4.6? 4.6.3? |
| 22:18.51 | zeq | which? |
| 22:19.07 | zeq | I built fennec with 4.7 |
| 22:19.12 | freemangordon | I know |
| 22:19.23 | freemangordon | but you said you built 4.6.x too |
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| 22:19.30 | freemangordon | the toolchain i mean |
| 22:19.33 | zeq | I have build linaro-4.6-2012.7 and linaro-4.7-2012.7 |
| 22:19.54 | zeq | s/build/built/ |
| 22:19.59 | freemangordon | does fennec builds with 4.6 without your patches? |
| 22:20.08 | zeq | should do |
| 22:20.09 | freemangordon | *build |
| 22:20.12 | zeq | haven't tried |
| 22:20.28 | freemangordon | well, maybe i should use that then |
| 22:20.36 | zeq | was more interested in testing 4.7 :) |
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| 22:20.53 | freemangordon | could you try to build fennec with your 4.6 to see of google https error is there? |
| 22:20.59 | freemangordon | zeq: I know |
| 22:21.09 | zeq | ok, but it will take a while... |
| 22:21.19 | freemangordon | zeq: no hurry |
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| 22:22.09 | zeq | I really kicked things off over at #jollamobile |
| 22:22.19 | zeq | trolls well :P |
| 22:23.10 | freemangordon | zeq: but we deffinitely should should stick to some version around 4-10 july, the current has HUGE memory consumtion and is slow as hell |
| 22:23.42 | freemangordon | sonspider: 8920 ms |
| 22:23.46 | freemangordon | *sunspider |
| 22:23.52 | freemangordon | @600 |
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| 22:25.03 | freemangordon | zeq: seems gcc 4.7 saves about 300ms |
| 22:28.07 | zeq | ok |
| 22:28.37 | zeq | not bad really, didn't expect much difference from the JIT |
| 22:29.40 | zeq | Where I expected to see most improvement was page layout |
| 22:30.28 | freemangordon | why? |
| 22:32.28 | zeq | very visible for a start ;) |
| 22:33.11 | zeq | it's also native code rather than JS (right?) |
| 22:33.36 | freemangordon | yeah, sounds sane |
| 22:34.32 | freemangordon | anyway, it is late for today, but I will try to do git bisect tomorrow |
| 22:36.05 | freemangordon | zeq: it is strange there is nor release for 16a1 is not released: http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ |
| 22:36.21 | freemangordon | I told you it is late here :D:D:D |
| 22:36.22 | zeq | I'll push my gcc47 build fixes for fennec, then get started on the linaro-4.6 fennec build |
| 22:36.51 | freemangordon | zeq: it is strange that 16a1 is not released: http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ |
| 22:36.59 | zeq | looking |
| 22:38.00 | zeq | don't see 15 there either? |
| 22:38.35 | freemangordon | there is 15b1 |
| 22:38.41 | zeq | ah ok |
| 22:39.03 | zeq | aurora maybe? |
| 22:39.04 | freemangordon | but seems latest not in alpha or beta is 13 |
| 22:39.20 | zeq | http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all-aurora.html |
| 22:39.37 | zeq | there is is :) ^ |
| 22:39.41 | zeq | it is* |
| 22:40.35 | freemangordon | but "Download Firefox Aurora in your language to experience the newest features and innovations in an unstable environment even before they go to Beta" |
| 22:41.53 | freemangordon | 14.01 is the latest release according to http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ |
| 22:42.25 | freemangordon | and it is released on 17 jul |
| 22:42.35 | freemangordon | i think that is a good candidate |
| 22:42.49 | freemangordon | b7 was performing pretty well |
| 22:43.09 | zeq | is there a tag in the git repo? |
| 22:43.25 | freemangordon | hmm, lemme try to checkout |
| 22:43.58 | zeq | freemangordon: I'm keeping the gf awake, going to have to sign-off... |
| 22:44.52 | zeq | night all! :) |
| 22:44.55 | zeq | waves |
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