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| 00:12.48 | elmejor | hola |
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| 01:42.38 | joga | hmm...is there something that would allow to run some program with a bigger size than fits the screen, like a virtual desktop? stuff like wireshark gets really tight with all the handles and toolbars taking half of the space |
| 01:43.34 | joga | so I could have it running on some decent resolution and scroll around, instead of cramming all of into nearly-unusable |
| 01:44.19 | joga | *all of it |
| 01:44.35 | joga | first a bit sleep though |
| 01:44.49 | SpeedEvil | In principle - easy debian'... should do that 'easily' |
| 01:44.58 | SpeedEvil | but scrolling will not work well |
| 01:49.45 | Hurrian | joga, vncserver -geometry 1920x1080 ? |
| 01:50.05 | Hurrian | that, or a modified Xephyr that'll allow scrolling |
| 01:50.20 | Hurrian | meh, it's about time Wireshark got a Hildon UI anyway |
| 01:50.29 | Hurrian | tab it all. |
| 01:51.14 | SpeedEvil | xephyr with accelerometer scrolling |
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| 02:06.12 | louisdk | hi |
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| 02:09.48 | louisdk | Anyone in there that own the N810? |
| 02:10.08 | SpeedEvil | Some here do. Not me. |
| 02:12.57 | beford | i do, but i have not used it for a whil |
| 02:12.58 | beford | e |
| 02:13.01 | ShadowJK | I've got one. The SD interrface appears to be dying on it. |
| 02:13.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2 |
| 02:14.08 | louisdk | Ok. Would you recommand buying it used to play with it or is the software totally buggy or dead? |
| 02:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd not worry bout the sw when buying used |
| 02:15.56 | louisdk | Well it should at least be usable right? :) |
| 02:16.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it been very usable until I switched to n900 |
| 02:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | GPS is crap though |
| 02:18.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | it still serves as a SIP client in my living room, and occasionally I use it for serving mp3 or youtube to my stereo |
| 02:18.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | or as radio in bathroom |
| 02:18.55 | ShadowJK | It's seriously outdated and tired? Like the ram is insufficient these days for loading many websites |
| 02:19.26 | ShadowJK | mostly has xchat on his |
| 02:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | xchat was great, is great, and stays great on N810 |
| 02:19.56 | SpeedEvil | I imagine the repos are bitrotting? |
| 02:20.00 | SpeedEvil | To a degree |
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| 02:20.42 | ShadowJK | some bitrot from when builder tried to build all fremantle things for diablo too |
| 02:20.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, somebody should mirror them |
| 02:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | WAAAAH!!!!!! |
| 02:21.22 | louisdk | As far as I see CSSU dev for N810 has been discontined (sort of) and some bugs are unresolved. |
| 02:21.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | W*T*F?!?! |
| 02:21.39 | louisdk | But well it's an old device :) |
| 02:21.55 | louisdk | Still fun for hacking and playing I think :P |
| 02:22.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think I recall some year ago somebody did an awesome work boosting gfx performance by new drivers to unknown heights |
| 02:23.14 | ShadowJK | i think that was on smartq |
| 02:23.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | or something like that (and most probably that someone been Stskeeps) |
| 02:23.50 | ShadowJK | Or then you're thinking of lcuk's liqbase, which benefits from 12 bits per pixel |
| 02:23.58 | psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, what, you haven't been mirroring them? :> |
| 02:25.18 | SpeedEvil | I've never had a n8* |
| 02:25.28 | SpeedEvil | Or even a n7* |
| 02:25.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I still love to use N810 for maintaining dsl-routermodems etc |
| 02:25.52 | psycho_oreos | I think they were technically known as 770, not N770 or n770 for that matter |
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| 02:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | even with the friggin useless bottom bar in xterm |
| 02:26.43 | ShadowJK | The one with pgup/pgdn? |
| 02:26.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, there's sth about kbd |
| 02:27.04 | ShadowJK | Ah i dont have that one |
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| 02:28.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:28.34 | louisdk | Does anyone know when Nokia will stop supporting Maemo.org and what'll happen next? |
| 02:28.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | might vanish when you disable vkbd |
| 02:28.41 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, were you chasing up chinook/diablo old stuff? :) |
| 02:29.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | nowhere, I don't service this N810 anymore, just use it as is |
| 02:29.33 | ShadowJK | louisdk, dont know, but I predict dozens of people all claiming to represent "community" will argue endlessly about what to do |
| 02:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | diablo, no chinook. chinook is really dead for good |
| 02:30.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | while half a dozen of sane people silently created mirrors |
| 02:31.30 | louisdk | Hopefully Jolla will make a forum when the spirit will live on. I asume that some people are dumping the site often... |
| 02:31.38 | louisdk | *where |
| 02:31.54 | louisdk | *the maemo-site |
| 02:31.55 | psycho_oreos | though it would be nice if one could get a little more access to some parts of maemo.org such as wiki, tmo, bugs, etc |
| 02:32.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | for mirroring? |
| 02:32.34 | psycho_oreos | yup, read-only tarballed and compressed archive |
| 02:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 02:33.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, such a thing bitrots in 1 week |
| 02:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | esp tmo |
| 02:33.37 | psycho_oreos | already nokia has officially stated they are not willing to beat around a dead dog. so maemo is already dead manufacturer-wise, like openmoko but the community is still there.. who knows when they'll finally pull the plug on maemo.org |
| 02:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't compare OM to Nokia, please! |
| 02:35.43 | psycho_oreos | withdraws that portion of the statement |
| 02:35.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | esp OM infra is *still* up |
| 02:36.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | even more than 3 month ago |
| 02:36.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, not all |
| 02:36.46 | psycho_oreos | though truth be told that when manufacturers cease to support such products, they usually don't publicise their timeline for destruction of support on old sites.. and so the sites silently disappear |
| 02:37.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitely dead vservers like the buildserver got scrapped |
| 02:38.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily we never had such thing like tmo |
| 02:38.53 | psycho_oreos | ..yet |
| 02:39.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, there's been nabble |
| 02:39.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | *burp* |
| 02:40.15 | louisdk | Well. There're are still coding competitions and so on with devices donated by Nokia so it can't be totally dead yet. |
| 02:40.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo not dead |
| 02:40.43 | psycho_oreos | those are meego-instances devices |
| 02:40.48 | psycho_oreos | well not totally |
| 02:41.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | beats psycho_oreosaround the block with cssu |
| 02:41.23 | psycho_oreos | though fremantle is pretty much dead.. I think its joining its ranks with diablo, chinook, sardine, herring, etc |
| 02:41.40 | psycho_oreos | I meant manufacturer-wise lol |
| 02:41.44 | psycho_oreos | not community-wise |
| 02:42.10 | psycho_oreos | i.e. no new N900 rolled out |
| 02:55.31 | louisdk | psycho_oreos: The fact that Nokia is donating devices to Maemo for developments of both MeeGo and Maemo apps is in my opinion showing that they care just a little bit about the Maemo community. |
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| 03:11.27 | psycho_oreos | louisdk, if such is the case, I must admit that your perception is fairly diminuitive. Considering the fact that: 1) the way nokia handled the microUSB fault on N900 was really poor, 2) the way n9 was to be sold (i.e. in specific countries only), 3) the fact that n9 is also removed from the shelves because of poor lumia sales |
| 03:17.07 | louisdk | psycho_oreos, Well Nokia is still giving N9's away to seminars like KDE Academy and has helped Jolla to start their company. So it strange that they are both reacting and supporting the platform at the same time. |
| 03:19.04 | louisdk | sleeptime |
| 03:19.13 | louisdk | bbml |
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| 09:28.24 | MohammadAG | vi__: Pong? |
| 09:28.25 | MohammadAG | 23 hours late |
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| 10:21.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | hands MohammadAG a glass of tea |
| 10:21.33 | pronto | O_O |
| 10:22.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | pronto: what? if you want one as well, just ask! |
| 10:23.03 | pronto | :D |
| 10:23.06 | pronto | <damands> |
| 10:23.09 | pronto | o_o |
| 10:23.32 | pronto | i had this really weith thai iced tea thing yesterday |
| 10:24.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you need a nice glass of tea as well. :-D |
| 10:24.20 | pronto | weith= weird |
| 10:26.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | prepares another glass of sweet moroccan nana-tea for pronto |
| 10:26.11 | pronto | never had that |
| 10:26.14 | pronto | drinks |
| 10:26.28 | pronto | (i mainly drink yerba mate) :p |
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| 10:31.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope sun dried one |
| 10:33.11 | rZr | is meego.com down ? |
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| 10:34.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/meego.com |
| 10:36.02 | rZr | up and dead ... |
| 10:36.08 | rZr | well |
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| 10:37.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 10:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably moving to maemo.org infra ;-P |
| 10:40.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | back up again, funny enough under https |
| 10:41.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | "thank you for attending Meego SF2011" WTF?! |
| 10:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | What's Next for MeeGo |
| 10:42.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Submitted by Imad Sousou on 27 September, 2011 - 20:01 |
| 10:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohwell |
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| 10:44.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | MeeGo planet Latest posts from the community MWKN Weekly News for Monday, 13 Feb 2012 21 weeks 4 days ago |
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| 10:47.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd say meego is "down" since Feb. 11. |
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| 11:16.19 | saidinesh5 | hey guys.i think i m having trouble setting up scratchbox for harmattan development |
| 11:16.38 | saidinesh5 | basically my Xephyr's display seems to be black |
| 11:16.54 | saidinesh5 | when i do a meego-sb-session start |
| 11:17.36 | saidinesh5 | http://paste.kde.org/517496/ |
| 11:17.43 | saidinesh5 | thats my scratchbox output |
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| 11:18.15 | Dynamit | I hate my N900 right now I Can't get U-boot to load omap1 kernel'n or kernel power 50 but every thing is right in the settings for U-boot what I can see |
| 11:18.22 | saidinesh5 | http://paste.kde.org/517502/ |
| 11:18.31 | saidinesh5 | and this is my Xephyr's output |
| 11:19.39 | saidinesh5 | ooooookay |
| 11:19.41 | saidinesh5 | nevermind |
| 11:19.44 | saidinesh5 | found the solution |
| 11:19.52 | saidinesh5 | didnt think the nokia docs are outdated |
| 11:20.00 | saidinesh5 | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3613 |
| 11:22.41 | Dynamit | Somebody that think they have a solution for my problem? |
| 11:26.01 | kerio | Dynamit: sure, don't use uboot |
| 11:26.13 | Dynamit | haha |
| 11:26.38 | Dynamit | I have U-boot to dual-boot |
| 11:27.10 | Dynamit | daa |
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| 11:29.11 | saidinesh5 | okay this is weird... the Xerphyr's window size is bigger than my laptop's height and i cant seem to view half the applications :\ |
| 11:30.11 | saidinesh5 | any work around for this guys? |
| 11:30.38 | saidinesh5 | (apart from getting a bigger external display) |
| 11:31.50 | Dynamit | change the display when writing in the terminal |
| 11:31.58 | Dynamit | stupid explanation on that |
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| 11:33.00 | marbru | i'm searching for the qt4.8 on maemo |
| 11:33.09 | marbru | for my n900 |
| 11:34.03 | Dynamit | saidinesh5: -screen 854x480x16 reduce that to maybe ½ of that |
| 11:34.46 | saidinesh5 | Dynamit: i changed the 480x854x16 to 854x480x16 |
| 11:34.58 | saidinesh5 | assuming it would take it as a horizontal device |
| 11:35.04 | saidinesh5 | but thats even worse |
| 11:35.23 | saidinesh5 | it looks like the window manager in N9 has a hardcoded screensize or something |
| 11:36.50 | saidinesh5 | still gives the halving thing a try |
| 11:37.04 | saidinesh5 | nope |
| 11:37.06 | saidinesh5 | it doesnt work |
| 11:37.16 | saidinesh5 | it only clips the view |
| 11:37.21 | saidinesh5 | it doesnt scale anything |
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| 11:44.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | saidinesh5: /topic |
| 11:44.32 | saidinesh5 | DocScrutinizer05: ? |
| 11:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | saidinesh5: you know, this chan has a topic, visible in usual IRC client at least via cmd /topic |
| 11:48.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | marbru: i'm not aware of qt4.8 for maemo - might be me |
| 11:48.20 | saidinesh5 | oh my bad.. didnt notice that... |
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| 12:26.02 | NIN101 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1237403#post1237403 I connected some dots, this is how you can get microb to speak with socks proxies... |
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| 12:50.10 | teotwaki | ~utg |
| 12:50.14 | teotwaki | ~ugt |
| 12:50.14 | infobot | hmm... ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
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| 12:57.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugts teotwaki |
| 12:57.52 | kerio | teotwaki: merry christmas |
| 12:58.49 | teotwaki | happy easter kerio |
| 13:01.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~google google teotwaki |
| 13:02.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess there's a good reason for chanset _default doesn't include google |
| 13:04.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~+chanset google |
| 13:04.09 | infobot | Showing google values on all channels... |
| 13:04.09 | infobot | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:04.09 | infobot | End of list. |
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| 13:35.18 | Lava_Croft | spamtastic |
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| 14:13.01 | teotwaki | ~ping |
| 14:13.01 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 14:38.50 | marbru | so |
| 14:39.04 | marbru | how can i get qt4.8 on maemo |
| 14:39.09 | marbru | for my n900? |
| 14:42.10 | kerio | what for? |
| 14:46.16 | Lava_Croft | curiousity killed the cat |
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| 14:48.05 | marbru | the latest version of qt seems 4.7 |
| 14:48.17 | marbru | there is possibilty to reach 4.8? |
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| 14:58.44 | kerio | what for? |
| 15:00.48 | marbru | i've a n900 with maemo |
| 15:01.10 | kerio | yeah, that's what most people here have |
| 15:01.38 | marbru | ok |
| 15:01.55 | marbru | i want to know even for future |
| 15:02.09 | marbru | when qt5 is ready |
| 15:02.16 | marbru | how procede? |
| 15:02.27 | Stskeeps | 4.8 and qt5 only works on Mer/Nemo for n900 |
| 15:03.22 | marbru | mmm |
| 15:03.45 | marbru | mer and nemo are different from maemo 5? |
| 15:04.41 | Stskeeps | very |
| 15:04.51 | marbru | in which? |
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| 15:27.12 | Lava_Croft | the first two are meego, the second is maemo |
| 15:28.11 | Lava_Croft | er third |
| 15:28.13 | Lava_Croft | my math is good |
| 15:31.36 | qpx | :) |
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| 15:44.16 | HtheB | yo |
| 15:47.13 | Sicelo | hmm, i think i finally got to bork my N900 |
| 15:47.42 | Sicelo | what is the /media/mmc1 mount point for? |
| 15:49.14 | HtheB | sdcard? |
| 15:49.20 | Sicelo | i mistakenly did a 'mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc1' and copied about 1.5GB of stuff to /media/mmc1 |
| 15:49.28 | HtheB | lol |
| 15:50.37 | Sicelo | now, i notice rootfs is 100% full (my N900 still boots fine, lol). and there are no other partitions in df -h output, eg, /home, /home/user/MyDocs are missing |
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| 15:52.22 | Sicelo | what's interesting is that all these partitions are still intact. i suppose they got mounted under / |
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| 15:52.28 | Sicelo | as for why, i don't know |
| 15:53.10 | ShadowJK | if emmc can't be mounted, a new blank /home is created on rootfs |
| 15:55.18 | Sicelo | makes sense. but how is it that i can still access everything, eg Documents dir. |
| 15:55.23 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 15:55.45 | Sicelo | and i didn't mount anything manually now |
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| 15:58.27 | sicelo|n900 | hmm, so let me check syslog for an answer |
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| 16:15.58 | sicelo|n900 | nothing informative there |
| 16:16.45 | sicelo|n900 | the generated fstab is fine, and has all the partitions |
| 16:17.03 | sicelo|n900 | considers a reboot + fsck of emmc |
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| 16:18.30 | kerio | hm, what generates /etc/fstab at boot, and how can you change it? |
| 16:19.43 | ShadowJK | some scripts.. |
| 16:19.55 | ShadowJK | fstab is generated after things have been mounted |
| 16:20.04 | kerio | ...i don't even |
| 16:20.07 | ShadowJK | so its contents is rather pointless |
| 16:20.11 | ShadowJK | iirc |
| 16:20.17 | ShadowJK | i could be wrong :P |
| 16:21.27 | Sicelo | yeah, it is autogenerated. so you mean it will generate crap, lol ;) |
| 16:26.34 | Sicelo | i'm relieved that at least it boots |
| 16:27.33 | Sicelo | jeez! now absolutely no output for mount and df commands |
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| 16:31.51 | Sicelo | eew, and Pali isn't here |
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| 16:38.22 | Sicelo | well, /proc/mounts seems to show i have a healthy system |
| 16:38.24 | Sicelo | hmm |
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| 16:39.25 | Sicelo | question is.. why would 'mount' and 'df' not show that |
| 16:39.47 | Sicelo | and N900 still behaves as normal when i connect to usb |
| 16:40.50 | Sicelo | can one of you please paste me their /proc/mounts |
| 16:44.14 | kerio | Sicelo: because of mtab silliness? |
| 16:44.57 | Sicelo | my /etc/mtab is blank. what about yours? |
| 16:45.39 | ShadowJK | 1000+ bytes |
| 16:46.06 | Sicelo | please paste |
| 16:46.08 | Sicelo | :- |
| 16:51.41 | ShadowJK | http://pastebin.com/fzcJaZ7V |
| 16:52.19 | Sicelo | thanks |
| 16:52.44 | kerio | Sicelo: just ln -s /proc/mounts /etc/mtab |
| 16:52.58 | kerio | btw, i have NO IDEA of what's going to happen if you do that |
| 16:53.05 | Sicelo | heh |
| 16:53.46 | kerio | i mean, it *should* work |
| 16:53.47 | kerio | but it mightn't |
| 16:54.08 | Sicelo | well, i noticed that mtab doesn't have the 'continue' options that are in /proc/mounts |
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| 17:01.21 | Sicelo | kerio, ShadowJK, please check what's in /media/mmc1 |
| 17:01.38 | kerio | ...none of your business |
| 17:01.58 | kerio | it's my sd |
| 17:02.39 | Sicelo | ah, thaks. |
| 17:03.02 | kerio | don't mention it :) |
| 17:03.37 | Sicelo | does a nice 'rm -rf /media/mmc1' |
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| 17:04.02 | Sicelo | reboot time, again |
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| 17:11.30 | Sicelo | great! this the the most useful 'rm -rf' out there |
| 17:11.31 | Sicelo | all is fine now |
| 17:12.20 | Sicelo | now i know what happened. my earlier mounting mistake caused me to now i know what happened. |
| 17:13.35 | Sicelo | /media/mmc1 was not mounted, but i copied to it about 1GB of stuff (actually an image of debian), in effect, saving to / |
| 17:14.30 | Sicelo | now, 71% free on rootfs |
| 17:16.44 | kerio | Sicelo: ubifs is weird as shit |
| 17:17.28 | Sicelo | agreed. |
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| 17:47.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: LOL |
| 17:47.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | age old pun |
| 17:48.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | [general advice] NEVER write anything to MyDocs or uSD from device, as ölong as those are actually mass-storage mounted |
| 17:49.02 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: wat |
| 17:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I wonder if you could umount MyDocs; chmod a-w MyDocs; mount MyDocs |
| 17:49.45 | kerio | oic |
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| 18:03.08 | Sicelo | i actually had done a mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc1 but i guess it didn't succeed. either way, it was irresponsible of me not to look carefully at output of that mount |
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| 18:30.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | df -h /media/mmc1 |
| 18:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | run for shelter! spam homing in |
| 18:32.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | t900:~# df -h /media/mmc1 |
| 18:33.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 18:33.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk1p1 483.6M 219.8M 263.8M 45% /media/mmc1 |
| 18:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | t900:~# df -h /media/mmc1 |
| 18:33.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 18:33.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | rootfs 227.9M 218.5M 5.2M 98% / |
| 18:33.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | t900:~# ls -l /media/mmc1 |
| 18:33.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 15 Apr 9 16:17 this-will-vanish-but-eat-your-stoage-nevertheless |
| 18:33.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | t900:~# |
| 18:33.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 18:33.17 | Sicelo | SPAM |
| 18:33.18 | Sicelo | :P |
| 18:35.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | >:-( unix-file-permissions |
| 18:36.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | t900:~# stat /media/mmc1/ -> Access: (0555/dr-xr-xr-x) Uid: ( 0/ root) Gid: ( 0/ root) |
| 18:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | still writes to /media/mmc1/foo happily |
| 18:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | even creates /media/mmc1/foo happily |
| 18:39.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF root can't forbid root to write to any dir? |
| 18:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, make sure you write to mounted media, not to the mountpoint dir! |
| 18:44.23 | Sicelo | yeah |
| 18:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders if friggin ke-recv (or whatever the "automounter" on the particular distro) couldn't also _clean_ _up_ on umounting a volume - I.I. delete the mountpoint dir |
| 18:44.58 | Sicelo | at that time there was zero percent free space. not even to edit the mtab file |
| 18:45.02 | jacekowski | mount as ro |
| 18:45.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: you missed the point |
| 18:45.34 | jacekowski | ahm |
| 18:45.45 | jacekowski | root is supposed to be able to do everything |
| 18:45.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wnna mount rw on a ro-dir |
| 18:46.02 | jacekowski | including writing to unwriteable file |
| 18:46.06 | jacekowski | and folders |
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| 18:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | which actually seems no problem, modulo the ro-dir doesn't guarantee nobody writes to that rootfs-dir-mountpoint |
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| 18:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if ke-recv would nuke the mountpoint dir in /media on umounting sdcard, you had a trouble less as user |
| 18:50.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: I'd expect root to be alowed everything on chmod(1,2) but not on fopen(2) |
| 18:51.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, ambivalent |
| 18:52.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably I meant: root supposed to obey unset write perm bit of owner when owner is root |
| 18:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure root should override all other user's perms, but when a file is root root 444 then I'd not expect root to be allowed to write to it |
| 18:54.34 | Macer | blah |
| 18:54.39 | NIN101 | try it. |
| 18:54.49 | Macer | my tyan board has bad caps too |
| 18:54.55 | Macer | no wonder it acts flakey |
| 18:54.59 | Macer | sigh |
| 18:55.00 | Sicelo | hmm, then that file would almost be a ghost, i suppose. because no one has higher privileges than root, right? |
| 18:55.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: I did :-( |
| 18:55.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: see my comment about chattr/chmod above |
| 18:55.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody except root could set a file to root root 444 |
| 18:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | so root could also set it to root root 777 |
| 18:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | but as long as it's 444, root shouldn't be allowed to cheat on own decision |
| 18:58.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E a file is owned by root. Root says: chmod u-w. So after that user is supposed to not write to that file, no? |
| 18:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when that user is root |
| 18:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW to root, root is a normal user |
| 19:00.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 19:00.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't fix unix, I guess ;-P |
| 19:02.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway for a file owner=root the first 4 bit of perms are useless (actually 2nd 4 bit) |
| 19:02.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for sticky bit, so in fact the rwx 3 bits are useless |
| 19:07.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels like it's time for a re-read of manpages and docs about unix file permissions and ACLs |
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| 19:58.58 | louisdk | Hi. I have promised a friend to setup his newlybrought used N900. Without checking for updates or SSU-version I just installed CSSU which failed. The SSU version is 1.1.1. Should I try to updates packages via apt or just reflash? |
| 20:00.32 | ShadowJK | I don't know about ssu, but normally you never want to use apt |
| 20:00.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu |
| 20:00.35 | infobot | [cssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 20:01.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | If you haven't done yet (unlikely): Upgrade to at least PR1.3, Nokia's last official major Maemo 5 update. PR1.3.1 is fine as well. If you're unsure if you have, Settings > About product should show Version beginning with 20.2010.36(PR1.3) or 21.2011.38(PR1.3.1). |
| 20:05.27 | louisdk | I've 3.2010.02-8 which seems to be PR1.1.1. In the update manager I have an updated called Maemo 5 Community SSU Package 21.2011.38-1Smaemo3 which fails. |
| 20:07.44 | louisdk | Well. Tries to upgrade though apt and see for fun what happens. Just reflash it if it goes wrong. |
| 20:08.21 | ShadowJK | apt isn't even designed to work |
| 20:10.55 | louisdk | Hmm. Maybe I should try to uninstall CSSU and then upgrade to PR1.3(.1). |
| 20:12.22 | louisdk | Well. I'll try "apt-get install mp-fremantle-community-pr". It was written at the CSSU faq |
| 20:14.31 | qpx | if you still have PR1.1 you should update as soon as possible :) |
| 20:14.57 | qpx | but reading your initial question |
| 20:15.13 | qpx | you should simply flash PR1.3.1 (latest) and go ahead with CSSU |
| 20:16.51 | louisdk | Off-topic. You installed sudser via root though SSH and got this message "Please read and close the popup dialog". LOL. |
| 20:17.02 | qpx | lol |
| 20:18.36 | *** join/#maemo leochencipher (~schen@507080E4.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 20:18.38 | louisdk | Running apt-get install mp-fremantle-community-pr and x-ing my fingers. |
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| 20:24.53 | louisdk | Yes. My device now reboots in loop. Think it's time for reflashing. |
| 20:26.52 | *** part/#maemo valeriusN (~valeriusN@xmpp.jrudevels.org) |
| 20:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | louisdk: uninstalling CSSU is not supported. You should flash right away |
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| 20:31.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | louisdk: instructions on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU are no kind suggestions, and are meant to get followed sequentially from start to end |
| 20:32.35 | louisdk | DocScrutinizer05, I'm already on it. Have setup/flashed a frew N900's over the years ;) |
| 20:34.02 | louisdk | DocScrutinizer05, I mean I've tried some things at this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Installation_FAQ but now I'm reflashing |
| 20:36.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | installation-faq are not a generic installation instruction - that's http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 20:36.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation actually |
| 20:37.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | only if you got >>Problems? Check the Installation FAQ<< |
| 20:38.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | so obviously in the Installation FAQ there won't be any instructions or problem workarounds that are already clearly explained in main page http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation |
| 20:47.58 | qpx | louisdk: simply make sure you flash the latest PR1.3.1 |
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| 20:50.46 | qpx | and while installing CSSU you need some patience as it's sometimes not clear if/what it's doing |
| 21:01.04 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 21:01.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | (<louisdk> Off-topic. You installed sudser via root though SSH and got this message "Please read and close the popup dialog". LOL.) a) who's "you"? b) wtf is sudser? c) "though SSH" sounds like insttalation by apt-get, so the msg is more than sane as sudser then obviosuly is one of the pkgs that aren't meant to get installed via apt-get since they open a requester on display:0.0, a "normal" thing for pkg install in HAM |
| 21:01.44 | Sicelo | NIN101: ping |
| 21:04.55 | NIN101 | Sicelo: pong |
| 21:06.38 | Sicelo | hmm, now i think i pinged you for nothing. i needed a reminder for rescueOS, namely, how do i login to the system via usb after i have usb-networking up |
| 21:06.50 | Sicelo | i just remembered that i have to use telnet |
| 21:07.10 | NIN101 | okay :-) |
| 21:07.37 | kerio | this evening at the restaurant i learned the hard way that backupmenu2 doesn't backup the kernel and that not having the correct kernel modules is a Bad Idea |
| 21:07.52 | Sicelo | :P |
| 21:08.02 | kerio | it was especially sad because i really wanted to "audit" a wep wifi network that was there |
| 21:08.05 | Sicelo | this means today is a bad day for N900. |
| 21:08.10 | kerio | indeed |
| 21:08.20 | Sicelo | i've borked mine the second time already :P |
| 21:08.32 | Sicelo | that's why i'm on rescueOS as we speak |
| 21:08.48 | kerio | right now i have the kp50 modules and a kp51 kernel |
| 21:08.57 | kerio | i suppose i'll just flash the stock nokia kernel |
| 21:09.21 | kerio | (i made a full backup right before the problem, and it has kp51 modules and omap1 modules) |
| 21:10.25 | kerio | Sicelo: just make backupmenu work regardless of stuff |
| 21:10.40 | louisdk | DocScrutinizer05: Sudser allows user to run root commands while typing sudo in front of them. This oage does not say using apt is a bad thing: http://wiki.maemo.org/Terminal#Debian_package_management expect for autoremove which will remove things you want to keep. |
| 21:10.44 | kerio | where's bootmenu installed? |
| 21:10.57 | kerio | louisdk: [citation needed], actually |
| 21:11.00 | kerio | autoremove works perfectly here |
| 21:11.03 | kerio | no "lost" packages |
| 21:11.06 | kerio | (latest cssu-t) |
| 21:11.08 | NIN101 | ... |
| 21:11.25 | NIN101 | fine down, not tomorrow. |
| 21:11.28 | NIN101 | *fine today |
| 21:12.02 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: package install scripts that open windows is a GIANT wtf |
| 21:12.04 | louisdk | kerio: Thx for info |
| 21:12.15 | kerio | HAM should properly support debconf, and it should use *that* instead |
| 21:12.26 | kerio | as always, fuckin' nokia |
| 21:12.43 | louisdk | kerio: +1 |
| 21:12.52 | Sicelo | kerio: ever tried rescueOS? |
| 21:12.56 | kerio | Sicelo: nope |
| 21:13.08 | kerio | where is it installed? sd? |
| 21:14.08 | NIN101 | nowhere, it's an initrd. |
| 21:15.27 | kerio | hmm |
| 21:15.34 | kerio | does backupmenu work with the default kernel |
| 21:15.35 | kerio | ? |
| 21:16.18 | Sicelo | NIN101: rescueOS isn't able to mount MyDocs for me, is it my system only? |
| 21:16.41 | NIN101 | no idea. |
| 21:17.20 | Sicelo | ~$ mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /mnt/free1/ |
| 21:17.21 | Sicelo | mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /mnt/free1/ failed: Input/output error |
| 21:17.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: suggest a better 3way! |
| 21:17.42 | NIN101 | what does dmesg say? |
| 21:18.15 | NIN101 | also I have no clue, maybe you nedd to say -t vfat or whatever. |
| 21:18.25 | kerio | i support any and every 3way |
| 21:19.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | pling |
| 21:19.29 | Sicelo | lol. yeah, needed the vfat thingy |
| 21:19.41 | NIN101 | yeah the busybox mount has no autodetect, or at least wasn't compiled |
| 21:20.50 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.182.163) |
| 21:21.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, have fun with your workshop here |
| 21:21.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ok, wat do |
| 21:22.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you finally find out you can actually cook eggs in your dishwasher, please don't let me know |
| 21:22.26 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: installed system with kp50 modules, kp51 flashed, i want to restore a backup that was made with kp51 installed |
| 21:22.35 | kerio | does backupmenu work with the stock kernel? |
| 21:22.39 | kerio | or does it need a framebuffer? |
| 21:22.54 | kerio | what should i do? |
| 21:23.40 | Sicelo | please could anyone paste `mount` result |
| 21:23.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: "sorry, your draft limit for today been exceeded. Contact your bank consultant" |
| 21:24.12 | kerio | really helpful, thanks |
| 21:25.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry if it's less helpful than my warning about your token-jar depleting by asking nonsense questions |
| 21:25.30 | Sicelo | specifically, i would like to know how /opt is actually mounted |
| 21:25.42 | Sicelo | as well as MyDocs |
| 21:25.52 | NIN101 | /opt/ is a bind mount |
| 21:26.13 | NIN101 | something like mount --bind /home/opt/ /opt/ |
| 21:27.20 | Sicelo | thanks |
| 21:30.12 | kerio | restoring |
| 21:31.32 | kerio | Sicelo: does restoreOS have a web page of some sorts? |
| 21:32.12 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 21:32.25 | NIN101 | http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ |
| 21:32.40 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-122-111-106-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 21:34.57 | kerio | NIN101: neat! |
| 21:35.07 | kerio | nothing that runs on the n900 itself though |
| 21:35.16 | kerio | unless you're willing to kinda dick around with uboot, i s'pose |
| 21:35.42 | NIN101 | ? |
| 21:35.59 | Sicelo | hmm, i think i still need a full 'mount' output |
| 21:36.17 | kerio | NIN101: it requires a computer to work |
| 21:36.19 | kerio | (rightfully so) |
| 21:36.36 | Sicelo | kerio: it's the best thing since sliced bread, imo |
| 21:36.37 | Sicelo | :P |
| 21:36.45 | kerio | no, that's backupmenu |
| 21:37.14 | NIN101 | Sicelo |
| 21:37.16 | kerio | hmm, i just found a (huge?) problem with cssu-thumb |
| 21:37.24 | NIN101 | this is what maemo does during boot: cat /proc/mounts > /etc/mtab |
| 21:37.38 | kerio | meh, i suppose it's not a big deal if you can just flash the correct kernel with flasher |
| 21:37.43 | kerio | nvm |
| 21:38.06 | NIN101 | could give you my mount output, it is full of dm-crypt stuff etc. so wouldn't probably help |
| 21:38.17 | Sicelo | :P |
| 21:38.23 | Sicelo | needed a basic one |
| 21:38.25 | kerio | Sicelo: /home/opt on /opt type none (bind) |
| 21:39.08 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.182.163) |
| 21:39.17 | Sicelo | and MyDocs? |
| 21:40.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: why would you need to mount /opt on a rescue system? |
| 21:42.00 | Sicelo | thanks. well, i don't need /opt. i need MyDocs to be mounted alongside maemo rootfs though |
| 21:42.16 | kerio | to run python scripts, of course |
| 21:42.40 | kerio | about that... why does python on n900 only have about half of the python stdlib? :/ |
| 21:42.58 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.182.163) |
| 21:48.38 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 21:50.21 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 21:52.59 | *** join/#maemo TamyrRRRR (~ehliar@sabor.isy.liu.se) |
| 21:53.55 | *** join/#maemo GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:54.19 | TamyrRRRR | A quick question, I tried to google for it but no luck. Is it really normal that apt-get will say that some packages cannot be authenticated when trying to install scratchbox? (I'm trying to follow the instructions on http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation for a text based installation |
| 21:54.24 | TamyrRRRR | (The GUI based installation didn't work.) |
| 21:54.57 | jacekowski | yes |
| 21:55.12 | jacekowski | as you don't have signing key installed into your keyring |
| 22:02.19 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@11.6.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 22:03.18 | TamyrRRRR | Hmm, any idea where the signing key can be found? |
| 22:03.33 | jacekowski | on keyserver |
| 22:05.58 | *** join/#maemo Ian--- (~ian@46.11.121.107) |
| 22:06.41 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:07.16 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@178235127192.piaseczno.vectranet.pl) |
| 22:07.16 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@Maemo/Community/council/Estel-) |
| 22:07.17 | kerio | oh wow, just got a segfault in busybox |
| 22:07.23 | kerio | with rm |
| 22:07.25 | kerio | i don't even |
| 22:07.56 | Estel_ | morning, guys |
| 22:09.16 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I've tested charging with 0x71... BTW, it turned out, that whole "life" I was using version that charges via 0x50, = 1050 mA, without any ill effects :P |
| 22:09.42 | Estel_ | BTW, are there any other improvements in latter versions of charge.sh? or was it just tuning this value? |
| 22:10.06 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:10.26 | Estel_ | anyway, charging 3A battery with 0x71 works fine, peak temperature 46 C degrees |
| 22:11.03 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (Ian--@78.133.20.151) |
| 22:11.30 | Estel_ | hoever, for some reason, I got feeling that it have cap to 1050 anyway. Even with everything disabled and screen off, I never saw more than ~1040 current reported |
| 22:12.24 | Estel_ | as for cable, it's very good one (had to pay 2 usd for it, after all :P ) - no problem with putting 3A through it, @5V, without negative temp effects |
| 22:13.17 | Estel_ | I'm also perfectly sure, that it touches port in N900 okey'ish, it doesn't look like problem with too much current for small pins |
| 22:13.20 | Estel_ | any idea? |
| 22:13.42 | Estel_ | BTW, thanks ShadowJK and DocScrutinizer for explaining me, patiently, how it works ;) |
| 22:14.17 | ShadowJK | probably would only pull 1.2A when empty |
| 22:14.24 | Estel_ | it seems, that DocScrutinizer was right about heat being generated by single-cell itself, if threaten with 1050, not charging chip's step-down converter |
| 22:14.45 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, tested it when almost empty, charging status reported 0x10 |
| 22:15.26 | Estel_ | 400 mAh left out of 3000 mAh (ok, maybe it isn't almost empty, after all, but shouldn't pull whole current anyway?) |
| 22:15.34 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:16.48 | Estel_ | also, there is no way to force more than 1250, by any humanly means? I wouldn't mind charging this 3A battery with 2A, it would be still less than 950 mA vs standard battery |
| 22:17.06 | Estel_ | (my travel charger supply even little more than 2A) |
| 22:18.11 | jacekowski | bq24150 can't do more than 1250 |
| 22:18.23 | Estel_ | not to mention, that in home, as part of my DIY "ultimate docking station for everything" :P I have modified ATX power supply, that can push 40A @ 5V - wouldn't mind trying to charge prototype of 6,8A battery with, lets say, 4A, observing temp |
| 22:18.27 | Estel_ | pity. |
| 22:18.42 | jacekowski | with 1250 being absolute maximum |
| 22:18.51 | jacekowski | so you are risking killing bq1250 |
| 22:18.56 | Estel_ | BTW, 1250 isn't stressing step-down converter? |
| 22:18.58 | jacekowski | and ending up with no charging at all |
| 22:19.05 | Estel_ | hah, it was my next question :) |
| 22:19.45 | Estel_ | with no ill effects re chip's reported temperature, should I still be afraid of killing it? |
| 22:20.01 | jacekowski | hmm, it looks like bq24150 has thermal throttling builtin |
| 22:20.10 | Estel_ | Of course, it would be much more sane to do 1150 or even 1050, in case of *real* risk |
| 22:20.22 | Estel_ | throotling, or just cut-out? |
| 22:20.24 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:20.29 | jacekowski | throttling and trip |
| 22:20.34 | jacekowski | throttling from 120C |
| 22:20.37 | jacekowski | and trip at 165C |
| 22:20.52 | jacekowski | http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/bq24150.pdf |
| 22:20.53 | Estel_ | maybe throotling is reason, why I feel caped to 1050, after all? but throotling on 46 C degrees? 0_o |
| 22:21.04 | Estel_ | I see |
| 22:21.16 | jacekowski | i think it's measuring current going to battery |
| 22:21.23 | jacekowski | so 200mA is going to rest of phone |
| 22:21.32 | jacekowski | but chip itself can only deliver 1250 |
| 22:21.36 | Estel_ | thanks a lot. As said, peak reported temp is 46C. |
| 22:21.49 | Estel_ | negative, I did it with disabled activity, nothing at all enabled |
| 22:22.00 | Estel_ | power draw at this state is 4-8 mA, in my case |
| 22:22.22 | Estel_ | charging with BME result in real ~940 being reported |
| 22:22.41 | Estel_ | and it's caped to 950 |
| 22:23.03 | Estel_ | so I would expect ~1240 or ~1200at least, when charging with max |
| 22:23.08 | Estel_ | that puzzles me |
| 22:23.16 | TamyrRRRR | Hmm, now the GUI based installer seems to work (although I note that the GUI based installer also complains about unauthenticated packages) |
| 22:23.19 | jacekowski | well, maybe external components are not big enough to deliver that much |
| 22:23.32 | Estel_ | they're, see backscroll :) |
| 22:23.48 | Estel_ | tested that before attempting experiment |
| 22:24.09 | Estel_ | PS doesn't have problem with 2A @ 5V, cable delivers 3A without problem |
| 22:24.26 | Estel_ | I'm not insane, wouldn't risk burning anything |
| 22:24.41 | jacekowski | not those components |
| 22:24.56 | Estel_ | N900's ones? |
| 22:25.02 | jacekowski | there is 1uH inductor in there |
| 22:25.15 | TamyrRRRR | Nope, the GUI based installer didn't work this time either, oh well, seems like I shouldn't do any maemo development for the moment |
| 22:25.17 | jacekowski | it can only store so much energy |
| 22:25.48 | jacekowski | so at whatever frequency bq24150 is running at it may be capable of only delivering 1000mA or whatever |
| 22:26.02 | jacekowski | buck converters are really complex things |
| 22:26.03 | Estel_ | I see. So, considering possibility of such limitation existing, should it be safe to left it at "max", without much risk of damaging anything in N900? |
| 22:26.17 | Estel_ | or is it stressed too much anyway? |
| 22:26.27 | jacekowski | well, somebody designed it for specific values |
| 22:26.36 | jacekowski | working outside of those, you don't know what to expect |
| 22:26.50 | jacekowski | increasing current means more heat disipated in all compoenents |
| 22:27.00 | jacekowski | not only bq24150 but it's inductor as well |
| 22:27.06 | jacekowski | and that has no temperature measurment on it |
| 22:27.11 | Estel_ | sure, that's why I'm thinking if, for example, such inductor could be stressed working at max, from general EE point of view |
| 22:27.26 | jacekowski | as well as battery |
| 22:27.43 | jacekowski | charging it at higher current isn't the best thing for battery either |
| 22:27.51 | jacekowski | lower currents are better for batteries |
| 22:28.08 | Estel_ | as for battery itsewlf, I'm not worried about it, it's true beast. 1A is 0.3C anyway |
| 22:28.15 | jacekowski | doesn't matter |
| 22:28.21 | Estel_ | hm? |
| 22:28.27 | jacekowski | less current is better for battery regardless of it's size |
| 22:29.07 | Estel_ | sure, but isn't it like hardly-measurable difference, if it doesn't exceed certain fraction of C? |
| 22:29.18 | Estel_ | or it doesn't matter at all? |
| 22:29.27 | jacekowski | depends on many other factors |
| 22:29.56 | jacekowski | but generally it's less important on low currents like that |
| 22:30.39 | Estel_ | well, it seems that I have to be guinella pig again :) |
| 22:30.43 | jacekowski | but thing is, lithium batteries tend to explode |
| 22:30.50 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:30.57 | jacekowski | and i would prefer to be nice to it |
| 22:31.00 | Estel_ | vent with flame, if anything :P (pun intended) |
| 22:31.52 | Estel_ | sure, sure, I've put independent thermal sensor on it. BTW, it shows same value as chip's internal one |
| 22:32.25 | Estel_ | reinforcing DocScrutinizer observation, that every bit of real heat during charging is generated inside cell only |
| 22:32.50 | Estel_ | peaked @ 46 C on both sides, doesn't look like it's going to get higher |
| 22:33.29 | Estel_ | funny, as during extensive discharges (on device) I've observed more than 60 C many times |
| 22:34.23 | Estel_ | BTW, some times I'm pulling out of battery much more, (inside device, also) than, as it seems, I'm able to put inside, via N900's charging chip |
| 22:34.30 | ShadowJK | What's voltage measurement like when charging at 1.2A? |
| 22:34.48 | ShadowJK | btw temperature is reported by bq27200, not b24150 |
| 22:34.57 | Estel_ | good point |
| 22:35.29 | Estel_ | having in mind that it seems bo be charging @ 1050 anyway... Do You mean battery reported voltage? |
| 22:36.03 | Estel_ | ...PS drop, or something else |
| 22:36.06 | Estel_ | ? |
| 22:36.34 | ShadowJK | voltage reported by the charge script |
| 22:36.51 | Estel_ | 3955 mV ATM |
| 22:36.57 | ShadowJK | current? |
| 22:37.00 | Estel_ | with 33 % state of charge |
| 22:37.10 | ShadowJK | current in screen off/idle etc if your xterm scrolls up |
| 22:37.26 | Estel_ | when I'm using device, 860 mA, so it's about 1050 mA real |
| 22:37.39 | Estel_ | on idle, 1040 and doesn't want go higher |
| 22:38.17 | Estel_ | measuring via bq27200.sh it's ~25 mA less, due to additional power being pulled |
| 22:38.38 | ShadowJK | exact same datasource for the two |
| 22:38.42 | Estel_ | (as by using, I mean wifi on and Xchat and screen on on moderate brightness) |
| 22:39.04 | ShadowJK | I estimate voltage at charging chip output is about 4150mV |
| 22:39.06 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, not likely, bq27200.sh going in background in loop eat some power |
| 22:39.12 | ShadowJK | so it's probably limited there |
| 22:39.16 | Estel_ | I see |
| 22:39.21 | ShadowJK | So is charge script :P |
| 22:39.26 | Estel_ | true:P |
| 22:39.33 | Estel_ | so it's probably normal fluctuation |
| 22:40.12 | Estel_ | ok, so if voltage output from chip is limited, most important question - risk of it being stressed too much is high? |
| 22:40.13 | ShadowJK | The .13 Ohm resistance I've observed seems not entirely linear wrt current.. |
| 22:40.24 | Estel_ | hm |
| 22:40.43 | ShadowJK | Well I'd look at what jacekowski wrote |
| 22:41.18 | Estel_ | re "quite impossible to estimate it, as they have designed it for certain usage"? |
| 22:42.23 | Estel_ | btw, is b24150 accesible on motherboard, after removing shield plates? would like to measure it's temp |
| 22:43.02 | Estel_ | as You've made good point about temperature being measured on bq27200 |
| 22:43.59 | Estel_ | hm, current raised to average 913 mA during usage, wtf? |
| 22:44.15 | Estel_ | at 38% soc |
| 22:44.24 | TamyrRRRR | Estel: Am I correct in thinking that this discussion is related to the custom case you are building for the n900? |
| 22:44.52 | Estel_ | TamyrRRRR, thanks for asking :) well, only slightly - I'm checking possibilities of faster native charging |
| 22:45.26 | Estel_ | as it is possible, that custom case will have possibility for housing batteries as big as 6800 mAh |
| 22:45.46 | Estel_ | (and even current batteries fitting in mugen cover are 3A) |
| 22:46.08 | Estel_ | I hopes for at least 1.5A charging, but it seems 1050 mA is absolute maximum |
| 22:46.15 | Estel_ | effective, at least |
| 22:46.33 | ShadowJK | Estel_, http://enivax.net/jk/forestel/charge21.sh.txt |
| 22:46.38 | Estel_ | as for custom body, I've recorded some (nothing special) videos of cnc machine working on wood |
| 22:46.42 | ShadowJK | I'd lake paste of charging with that script |
| 22:47.01 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, ok, getting it |
| 22:47.27 | ShadowJK | I copied and edited on webserver, untested on actual devices ;P |
| 22:47.43 | Estel_ | wasn't available on server. Typo in urkl? |
| 22:47.57 | Estel_ | ok, ok, I'll check it before running :P |
| 22:48.26 | TamyrRRRR | Estel: Neat. Good luck with both the case and the faster charging :) |
| 22:48.42 | ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/forestel/charge21.sh.txt |
| 22:48.46 | Estel_ | thanks a lot :) |
| 22:48.49 | ShadowJK | ah, n900 bit was missing |
| 22:48.55 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, figured it out at same moment ;) |
| 22:50.33 | Estel_ | I'm ash-compliant only, doesn't matter? |
| 22:50.50 | ShadowJK | It does not |
| 22:50.52 | Estel_ | nah, original is also for bash as per shebang |
| 22:50.57 | Estel_ | yep |
| 22:51.27 | ShadowJK | I wrote this on device, with sdk tools nano (which crashes randomly), and on device busybox... |
| 22:51.32 | ShadowJK | originally, that is :P |
| 22:52.56 | ShadowJK | Also at the time I was under the impression and belief that neither bash nor ash supports binary arithmetic.. that's why all bit manipulation is in integer arithmetic, lol |
| 22:53.01 | Estel_ | :) it's running, what to report? |
| 22:53.33 | Sicelo | finally gives up on u-boot. will simply tag it 'incompatible' with this particular N900 |
| 22:53.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: what is your USB-curlim in charge.sh? |
| 22:53.59 | ShadowJK | Load pastebin in web browser on N900. Switch to xterm. Press enter to make a mark. Lock screen, wait a minute, unlock screen, copy/paste xterm contents to pastebin :P |
| 22:54.11 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@31.25.18.35) |
| 22:54.16 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I dont remember charge.sh anymore, but in 21 it's unlimited |
| 22:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I-max-bat = I-max-usb / 5v * U-bat |
| 22:54.58 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, ok. Am I mistaked, or does this version of charge separate current used by system, somehow? |
| 22:55.15 | ShadowJK | I thought you already had that version... |
| 22:55.39 | ShadowJK | But yes, it tries to calculate that. I just adjusted the parameters to assume 1250mA |
| 22:55.41 | louisdk | Hi. What's the name of the N900 backup-folder? |
| 22:55.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: might actually be the truth. Your NNAD might have too many bad blocks so uBoot+kernel doesn't fit into mtd |
| 22:55.48 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I told You You had some oldie, that charged with 1050 max as per default (0x50) |
| 22:55.53 | louisdk | ~/.backups or? |
| 22:55.57 | ShadowJK | "backups" |
| 22:56.02 | ShadowJK | on MyDocs or mmc1 |
| 22:56.13 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, nice. Will paste zerobin in a minute or so, brb |
| 22:56.29 | Sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: i hope it's not that. gawd :P |
| 22:58.45 | louisdk | ShadowJK, thanks |
| 22:58.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: I think all that calculation of "true battery current" is kinda guesstimate |
| 22:58.56 | ShadowJK | Of course. |
| 22:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | *only* proper way to implement that: temprarily stop charge, read current flow _from_ battery as that's what system is jist ATM consuming |
| 23:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even use those real values to calibrate your guesswork-parameters |
| 23:01.20 | ShadowJK | It's far off when the current is fluctuating, but when I plotted against "known" consumption whilst charging, it was +-20mA at the start of the charge, and then drifted off to being 50% inaccurate near end of charge.. or other way around, I forget :-) |
| 23:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you could at least try to either pick a period with low fluctuations, or calm the system ;-) |
| 23:03.16 | ShadowJK | Part of it is assumption of voltage drop across the circuit board.. Everytime an N900 has broken for me, I've reran calibration of this loss estimate on the new spare N900, which has as zero load as possible, and each time I've adjusted it upwards with a couple of mR :-) |
| 23:04.02 | ShadowJK | iirc I started somewhere at .125 ... .128, and now I'm at .132 |
| 23:04.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | statistic |
| 23:04.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | static? |
| 23:04.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | noise! |
| 23:04.48 | ShadowJK | However, the second and third assumption is that the charger chip sense resistor is .068, and that the bq27200 sense resistor is .021 :) |
| 23:05.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you also assume bq24150 has pretty exact voltage/current limit |
| 23:05.30 | ShadowJK | .021 obtained from the MeeGo boys with their test jigs and lab psus |
| 23:05.37 | ShadowJK | yes, that too |
| 23:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, .021 is correct for sure, since we get proper capacity readings with it |
| 23:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 23:06.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | do we? |
| 23:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep we do |
| 23:07.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | multiplier for charge is a function of RS |
| 23:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/charge/capacity_now/. |
| 23:08.06 | ShadowJK | There's probably another assumption one could make, assume offline mode idle drain is constant, and then gather data for voltage and current when charging, and solve for the 3 resistances... |
| 23:09.06 | ShadowJK | with bq27200 sense R as 21mR I was getting <1100mAh on my old nokia BL-5J (was 1250-ish new), and getting 1400 on dealextreme "Japod" BL-5J |
| 23:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got 1320..1350 on new bl-5j |
| 23:09.50 | *** join/#maemo RiD (~GhostRide@bl22-51-246.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 23:10.26 | ShadowJK | The japod is magic though, it maintains low Z for almost forever |
| 23:13.33 | ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/volt.png I wish I could figure out a way to represent what I mean better than this, but move your pointer to the start of the "Cliff", where the voltage drops like it fell off of a cliff, notice on the Y axis at what voltage the cliff happens |
| 23:14.14 | ShadowJK | It's significantly higher for the japod compared to the rest (let's ignore the brick-size mugen) |
| 23:14.51 | ShadowJK | So when b27200 says 1400mAh capacity for japod, the thing where bq assumes 3248mV is at 6% battery cap comes into play :) |
| 23:14.53 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 23:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, estel's concern about choke in stepdown converter bq24150 is valid. Depending on job sourcing did, it might run into saturation with 1200+mA and that's not really a good thing |
| 23:19.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | on GTA02 I even heard of chockes that desoldered themselves (or was it actually N900?) |
| 23:19.30 | RiD | GTA02 lol. Grand Theft Auto |
| 23:19.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Gotta Think Aboutit |
| 23:20.05 | RiD | Zero Two |
| 23:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratch the zero |
| 23:20.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm dizzy |
| 23:20.43 | RiD | increase your font size |
| 23:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | won't help |
| 23:21.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'm usually not looking at what I type |
| 23:21.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I look at the kbd |
| 23:22.11 | RiD | you suck then. I can't look at my keyboard |
| 23:22.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | or at the text I'm answering |
| 23:22.23 | RiD | all the keys wore out |
| 23:22.39 | RiD | (Ok, i'm being dramatic. But it sure doesn't look like new.) |
| 23:22.52 | RiD | when the keyboard led strikes in, it looks really ugly |
| 23:23.02 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@31.25.18.35) |
| 23:23.31 | RiD | backspace key is a shame. It has no symbol in it, you can actually see the small dots of light in there. |
| 23:23.34 | ShadowJK | Where did estel go |
| 23:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | apropos, this afternoon I found N950-kbd-backlight is such a dim crap they could've saved it all together |
| 23:23.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 23:24.13 | RiD | i would love to get a spare keyboard but you know how it is, chinese keyboard clones suck |
| 23:25.00 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05, I stopped using 1200mA charge rate after I went on a road trip with N900+2400mAh battery, my N900 streaming music over 3g, sygic mobile maps running, fm transmitter activated. It was nice, the music faded out and the voice nav told me where to go, music faded back in. When I arrived at destination my N900 was like 55C :s |
| 23:25.37 | ShadowJK | And the music/voicenav came through car speakers, not N900 speakers :D |
| 23:27.47 | RiD | 55ºC only? Ooh please, i forgot my N900 in my oven |
| 23:29.56 | ShadowJK | N900 sitting in 55C ambient isn't as bad as N900 disspating enough energy to heat itself to 55C, because in the latter case there'll be very small components that are considerably hotter than 55C :P |
| 23:30.34 | *** join/#maemo niwakame|away (hashtag@ircbouncer.eu) |
| 23:30.56 | RiD | and therefore frying eggs |
| 23:31.45 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@178235127192.piaseczno.vectranet.pl) |
| 23:31.45 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@Maemo/Community/council/Estel-) |
| 23:31.45 | RiD | one day i should try frying eggs with my passive 8600GT gpu that is hanging somewhere |
| 23:32.01 | RiD | that thing would reach 115ºC easily. the site says 105ºC is the limit |
| 23:32.32 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, sorry for delay - my son waked up, and I needed to sing some lullababies :) |
| 23:32.37 | Estel_ | here is the link |
| 23:32.56 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?8fa5034cd4d8227f#gjq0EONBU95Mgx4blSA6bsoXO4hJwxbBP+7RK9Ehnss= |
| 23:34.18 | Estel_ | it's funny, as now, when device is in use, it's rather: |
| 23:34.20 | Estel_ | Status: 0x10 Mode: CHARGING Full: 0 Wall: 1 Voltage: 4077 NAC: 1786 level: 64 % Rate: 794 System: -137 Ch: 931 Compensated: |
| 23:34.33 | ShadowJK | lol, double negative... |
| 23:34.44 | Estel_ | how accurate is system load measurement? |
| 23:34.53 | ShadowJK | it's a guess |
| 23:35.00 | Estel_ | based on? |
| 23:35.04 | ShadowJK | You missed the conversation on it :) |
| 23:35.13 | Estel_ | and why double negative? |
| 23:35.15 | Estel_ | ah, I see |
| 23:35.21 | Estel_ | will check logs |
| 23:35.59 | ShadowJK | It's based on assuming that the charging chip sense resistor is 68mR, that the battery gauge sense resistor is 21mR, that the circuit board losses between charging chip and battery is 132mR, and that the charging chip is able to charge at the full requested rate |
| 23:36.24 | ShadowJK | double negative Isn't Supposed to Happen(TM) :) |
| 23:36.37 | ShadowJK | Means one of the above assumptions are wrong |
| 23:36.43 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 23:37.02 | Estel_ | opens own link for investigation |
| 23:37.38 | Estel_ | a-ha. This thing |
| 23:37.41 | ShadowJK | The expected power use when idle is something like 20mA, so it's off by like 30mA ;-) |
| 23:37.57 | Estel_ | some lines later, it is single negative only, but generally, yep |
| 23:38.39 | Estel_ | I wonder how it is in case of higher load, as in: |
| 23:38.45 | ShadowJK | Also, the CH value being less than 1250 means that the charge has reached the CV portion, and that hte voltage at the charging chip is close to 4.2V |
| 23:38.56 | Estel_ | <Estel_> Status: 0x10 Mode: CHARGING Full: 0 Wall: 1 Voltage: 4077 NAC: 1786 level: 64 % Rate: 794 System: -137 Ch: 931 Compensated: |
| 23:39.08 | Estel_ | it would be 1100 mA |
| 23:39.14 | Estel_ | at this point of charge? |
| 23:39.28 | Estel_ | yea |
| 23:40.13 | Estel_ | but, but, also, remember that even on 3995 mV and almost empty battery it wasn't 1250, it seems |
| 23:40.29 | ShadowJK | It's guesstimating that the current rate provided by the charger is 932mA, the system uses 137mA, and that leaves the 794mA going into the battery. The 794mA is actually measured |
| 23:40.40 | Estel_ | ough |
| 23:40.47 | Estel_ | so I took it wrong |
| 23:41.02 | ShadowJK | 931* |
| 23:41.32 | ShadowJK | Double negative system implies that energy is being added through some unknown path :) |
| 23:41.49 | Estel_ | i though that 931 is charge after gusstimation, with additional 137 for system |
| 23:41.53 | ShadowJK | But that's not possible, so it's really just showing that the assumptions made are not correct. |
| 23:41.55 | Estel_ | :) |
| 23:42.18 | GeneralAntilles | Estel_, pong? |
| 23:42.33 | ShadowJK | Also at 64%, it is expected that the battery is no longer accepting full charge rate. |
| 23:42.39 | Estel_ | Any way to improve guesstimations basing on that data? |
| 23:42.55 | Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, thanks, but I have no idea what I wanted few days ago :( |
| 23:43.06 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, yea. |
| 23:43.14 | ShadowJK | Change CR=132 to CR=133 maybe |
| 23:43.28 | Estel_ | wut? |
| 23:43.32 | Estel_ | aaa |
| 23:43.33 | Estel_ | I see |
| 23:43.39 | GeneralAntilles | Estel_, feel free to memoserv. |
| 23:43.50 | Estel_ | thanks GeneralAntilles :) |
| 23:44.42 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, as expected, temperature reported by bq27200 dropped to 42 C (from 46 C), same goes, of course, for cell temp |
| 23:45.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | what friggin cell temp? |
| 23:45.36 | ShadowJK | he has external thermometer on his battery |
| 23:45.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh |
| 23:46.06 | Estel_ | well, it seems that I will charge few cycles with max current, then post results on TMO's battery's thread, with big red fat warning about concerns made by jacekowski, and that only guinea pigs should try it... Then, continue to use it myself for few months |
| 23:46.12 | Estel_ | and report back again |
| 23:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: you also should read chanlog for my concerns |
| 23:46.45 | *** join/#maemo PeterWolf (~peter@114-44-217-219.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 23:46.48 | Estel_ | If all volunteer guinea pigs will be OK so far, we don't have, probably, much to fear ;) |
| 23:46.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | which are basically confirming jacekowski's |
| 23:47.01 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, sure, will do it now |
| 23:47.08 | ShadowJK | Estel_, actually I'd be interested in a paste from the start of charge from "empty".. Something like ./charge21.sh | tee chargelog.txt |
| 23:47.18 | ShadowJK | And then paste/attach/email/dcc me the chargelog.txt :) |
| 23:47.23 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, sure, I'll do it on next cycle |
| 23:48.06 | Estel_ | how many lines from empty? as much as it will generate until full ;) or interested only in some first ones? |
| 23:48.25 | ShadowJK | Also mention to the guinea pigs that I used 1250mA charge rate on my first N900, and I also used a thermal throttle to limit charging when temperature got warm, and this thermal limit is not present in this script.. And, my first N900 died. |
| 23:48.45 | Estel_ | ooook... BTW, how it died? |
| 23:48.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually if choke runs into saturation, temerature increase at start of charging empty battery will be *significantly* higer than on 950mA limited |
| 23:48.51 | ShadowJK | Estel_, if you usually charge it full, then yeah |
| 23:48.57 | ShadowJK | Estel_, sim card missing |
| 23:49.03 | ShadowJK | aka cellular modem fault |
| 23:49.32 | joga | I'm so worried my n900 will die some day and there will be no replacement :( |
| 23:49.44 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-53-76.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:49.48 | ShadowJK | My second N900 also died that way, and I hadn't abused that one at all.. But let's not mention that to the guinea pigs. They deserve a good warning. |
| 23:50.07 | Estel_ | I see, that one. Sure, will report it too. BTW, considering all of this, increase from 950 to 1250 seems quite low gain, but I'll probably do it for sake of experiment and curiosity |
| 23:50.10 | joga | I've used it heavily but apparently gently enough that it still works fine |
| 23:50.29 | Estel_ | joga, do like me and buy 8 of them |
| 23:50.32 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 23:50.46 | ShadowJK | Estel_, yes, the reason I asked for log from start of charge, is to see how early the actual charge current drops below 950 with your megabattery :) |
| 23:50.53 | *** join/#maemo magog (~user@39.76.155.90.in-addr.arpa) |
| 23:50.53 | joga | Estel_ if only I had money for such, there's many available at the local auction site as we speak |
| 23:50.59 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, sure, I'll try to scary them As much as humanly possible |
| 23:51.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: heating by charging should only be a fraction of what a system at full cpu load creates |
| 23:51.41 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, Well it's 1.2A over .5R |
| 23:51.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O ??? |
| 23:52.34 | ShadowJK | .13 from PCB, .4 from battery? |
| 23:52.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | even it that's correct it only is a humble 0.6W |
| 23:52.59 | ShadowJK | yeah |
| 23:53.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly doubt that .130 from PCB |
| 23:54.08 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, as for choke saturating, You mean temperature gain measurable via bq27200, or one exclusive to b42150? |
| 23:54.09 | Estel_ | joga, I also don't have money for such - I just convinced whole family to switch their android shits for N900's, so I bought 15 devices at once. some sold on TMO; after reinforcing ports... |
| 23:54.11 | Estel_ | = it turned out to be quite cheap per device :P |
| 23:54.11 | Estel_ | well, maybe, just maybe, jolla will deliver. |
| 23:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather think bq24150 never been built to be a reference voltage source |
| 23:54.53 | joga | Estel_ I sure hope something comes out of it...or similar |
| 23:54.54 | ShadowJK | Well, Li-Ion needs +-.05V precision |
| 23:55.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: since they all are close to each other, you'll notice at bq27200 as well |
| 23:55.09 | joga | I just recently updated some stuff and browsed the repos again and found so much cool things |
| 23:55.33 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, all right, will watch it closely when charging from extra-empty (like 100 mAh charge or so) |
| 23:55.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: only on end of charge where current is low |
| 23:55.49 | joga | nice thing about this phone is that it seems to get a lot better in time instead of becoming obsolete :) |
| 23:56.04 | ShadowJK | Estel_, is this a dual lucialiu thingy |
| 23:56.09 | Estel_ | joga, yeah :) if only ram would be upgradeable... :P |
| 23:56.20 | ShadowJK | Or dual japod or what |
| 23:56.21 | joga | yeah |
| 23:56.25 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, yes, but lucialui doesn't sold real ones anymore :( |
| 23:56.31 | Estel_ | no, not japod |
| 23:56.31 | ShadowJK | :( |
| 23:56.40 | ShadowJK | I forget what her batteries were called |
| 23:56.43 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, scud |
| 23:56.46 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 23:57.06 | Estel_ | well, scud is now only ~1300, like genuine, so rather overpriced |
| 23:57.43 | Estel_ | BTW, some time ago I've sold 2 last dual ones on TMO, but one guy cancelled order due to some receiving problems, and battery will return soob. I'll sell it on TMO, probably |
| 23:57.57 | Estel_ | aka last dual scud known to exist :P |
| 23:58.04 | Estel_ | (last unused) |
| 23:58.37 | ShadowJK | Weirdly, I'm doing fine with single battery :P |
| 23:58.56 | Estel_ | but I really hope for putting 2x 18650 3.4 Phillips'es into modified body. I've measured it, and it's only 2mm thicker than mugen cover on stock body |
| 23:59.12 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, weren't You mugen battery owner? |
| 23:59.17 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 23:59.38 | ShadowJK | I only used it for like less than a year, heh |
| 23:59.48 | Estel_ | well, due to load being cut in half, many people report ~3200 effective capacity of dual scud |
| 23:59.53 | Estel_ | I see |
| 23:59.55 | ShadowJK | never used it with second (RIP) N900 or third (current) N900 :P |
