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| 00:29.13 | Macer | ok |
| 00:29.16 | Macer | i cant take it anymore |
| 00:29.23 | Macer | i seriosly need to contact nokia about this fucking problem |
| 00:29.35 | Macer | with the wifi on the lumia 900 |
| 00:29.39 | Macer | it's driving me crazy |
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| 01:47.11 | ShadowJK | what wifi problem? |
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| 06:38.55 | Macer | lol |
| 06:39.09 | Macer | omg live chat tech support from nokia is a joke |
| 06:39.26 | Macer | what a waste of life, time, and resources |
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| 09:39.12 | zeq | freemangordon: I've found I need to patch the fennec source, but the maemo fennec debian/rules seems very strange to me: unpacking the source tree during build..?!? It's too late by then to patch with quilt! |
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| 09:44.28 | merlin1991 | zeq: quite a few maemo packages apply quilt patches within debian/rules |
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| 09:46.08 | zeq | merlin1991: how should it be done? Have you seen the rules for fennec. I don't know whether it's unusual or not. |
| 09:46.26 | merlin1991 | I didn't see the rules for fennec |
| 09:47.17 | zeq | I've tried including the quilt patchsys |
| 09:47.38 | zeq | that didn't work because the source isn't unpacked |
| 09:47.58 | merlin1991 | is the rules file somewhere on the net hat I can have a quick look? |
| 09:48.57 | zeq | it's in extras-devel |
| 09:49.09 | zeq | that's the version I basing upon |
| 09:49.40 | zeq | there's a Fennec 13 thread on tmo |
| 09:50.07 | merlin1991 | could you just pastebin the rules, I'm currently on windows |
| 09:50.57 | zeq | hang on |
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| 09:55.30 | zeq | is installing irc client on his laptop since empathy is broken |
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| 09:59.44 | zeq | is surprised XChat takes so long to emerge... |
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| 10:12.41 | zeq | channel window isn't appearing in XChat on my laptop. Wonderful! |
| 10:17.56 | zeq | I've installed ircii, how do I switch to a channel I've joined?? |
| 10:18.42 | merlin1991 | ctrl+# |
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| 10:20.21 | zeq | literally? |
| 10:20.31 | merlin1991 | # stands for number ,) |
| 10:20.44 | zeq | that's what I thought |
| 10:20.51 | zeq | doesn't seem to work :/ |
| 10:21.13 | merlin1991 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:21.19 | merlin1991 | I think that should always work |
| 10:21.55 | zeq | doesn't seem to in ircII |
| 10:22.29 | merlin1991 | hm |
| 10:23.18 | zeq | \/info gives info about the current window |
| 10:23.49 | zeq | I'm obviously doing something wrong |
| 10:24.13 | zeq | I seemed to join ^^ |
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| 10:27.25 | fizzie | Based on very vague recollections of ircII, if you don't explicitly put your channels to different windows, your channels will not be in different windows, but just all meshed in together, with ^x switching the channel being talked to. (And /window swap <r> swaps the current window with the hidden window of that number.) |
| 10:27.31 | zeq | irssi then... |
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| 10:31.39 | zeq_laptop | irssi works :) |
| 10:34.24 | zeq_laptop | http://pastebin.com/Hyhxdhx4 |
| 10:35.14 | merlin1991 | zeq_laptop: well then add simple call to quilt after the tar call? |
| 10:36.02 | zeq_laptop | I haven't used quilt for 10 years.. |
| 10:36.45 | zeq_laptop | so how do I apply a patch series? |
| 10:37.48 | zeq_laptop | the last time I did any packaging for a debian based distro was for the PS2 Linux Kit |
| 10:37.55 | zeq_laptop | :) |
| 10:38.49 | merlin1991 | hehe |
| 10:38.59 | merlin1991 | you need to have the debian/patches folder |
| 10:39.03 | merlin1991 | the series file in there |
| 10:39.09 | zeq_laptop | I've done that |
| 10:39.20 | merlin1991 | and after that see man quilt |
| 10:39.40 | merlin1991 | (I don't remember the commandline for apply all patches) |
| 10:39.56 | zeq_laptop | better install man on sb ... |
| 10:41.00 | merlin1991 | zeq_laptop: it's quilt push -a |
| 10:41.23 | zeq_laptop | thanks! |
| 10:42.16 | zeq_laptop | I'll need to add quilt to the build-deps too I guess |
| 10:45.43 | merlin1991 | yep |
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| 10:58.30 | zeq_laptop | merlin1991: what fun... quilt push -a attempts to apply the patches to the top of the build tree, not to where the source was unpacked, even if I 'cd' into it first! |
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| 11:03.48 | merlin1991 | if you cd you need to cd somewhere && quilt push -a |
| 11:04.10 | zeq_laptop | ah ok |
| 11:04.51 | zeq_laptop | forgot it was a makefile for a moment ;) |
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| 11:14.58 | zeq_laptop | merlin1991: figured it out. debian/patches needs to be symlinked into the unpacked source dir |
| 11:16.24 | zeq_laptop | the patches I'm using assume the tree is unpacked at the top level |
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| 11:28.26 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: look here https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/dosfstools/blobs/master/debian/rules |
| 11:29.23 | freemangordon | I expect you only need to add include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make |
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| 11:30.27 | freemangordon | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:38.27 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: It turns out patching it may not help afterall. I thought I was hitting this bus: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738416 but that's already applied to the source I'm using. Instead it's failing at link time. (same method though) |
| 11:38.28 | povbot | 04Bug 738416: was not found. |
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| 11:39.02 | zeq_laptop | I guess it's not in our qt lib |
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| 11:56.18 | StyXman | echo deb http://ubuntu.packages.gtm.p.fti.net/dop lucid-preprod pns > /var/opt/hosting/data/pns_php/etc/apt/sources.list.d/pns-preprod.list |
| 11:56.22 | StyXman | duh |
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| 12:30.42 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: what could not be found in link time, I am quite familiar with Qt, maybe I can help |
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| 12:36.26 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: QTMLocationProvider::SetHighAccuracy() |
| 12:37.36 | zeq_laptop | I've essentially reverted the patch that added it to mozilla with #if 0, trying to build again atm |
| 12:38.19 | zeq_laptop | it was added for this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738416 |
| 12:38.20 | povbot | 04Bug 738416: was not found. |
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| 12:56.52 | japh | I play music with mplayer. When I slide open the keyboard fully, the sound is interupted for half a second or so. Same thing if someone sends a text. Isn't pulseaudio supposed to be able to play multiple streams at once, or is this because of something else? |
| 12:59.50 | ivgalvez | japh: Probably mplayer is not configured to use pulseaudio but Alsa |
| 13:00.14 | zeq_laptop | japh: do you use -ao pulse ? |
| 13:00.17 | japh | ivgalvez, yes. |
| 13:00.22 | japh | err. zeq_laptop - yes |
| 13:00.47 | ivgalvez | then it "might be" because mplayer is not using DSP acceleration |
| 13:00.53 | ivgalvez | and takes a lot of CPU |
| 13:00.58 | japh | uhm |
| 13:01.09 | ivgalvez | compare CPU consumption with any MAFW player |
| 13:01.16 | japh | MAFW? |
| 13:01.22 | ivgalvez | I mean |
| 13:01.27 | ivgalvez | any regular player |
| 13:01.31 | ivgalvez | stock one |
| 13:01.37 | japh | the reason why I'm using mplayer is because everything else sucks |
| 13:01.40 | ivgalvez | or Open Media Player for example |
| 13:01.41 | japh | okay |
| 13:02.13 | ivgalvez | if Mplayer consumes almost 100% of your CPU, that would explain the interruption |
| 13:02.28 | japh | can I assume that if I try to replace pulse with for example oss4, things will break horribly? |
| 13:02.42 | ivgalvez | use alse instead |
| 13:02.57 | ivgalvez | that wouldn't allow any other application to take over your audio |
| 13:03.09 | japh | wtf |
| 13:03.15 | japh | why on earth didn't I think of that? |
| 13:03.19 | ivgalvez | -ao alsa |
| 13:03.23 | japh | that's why I have never liked alsa |
| 13:03.27 | japh | and now it's my saviour |
| 13:03.38 | japh | (dmix never works for me) |
| 13:03.41 | japh | thanks, ivgalvez |
| 13:03.44 | ivgalvez | anyhow, notifications are terrible |
| 13:03.53 | ivgalvez | consuming a lot of resources |
| 13:06.21 | japh | fwiw, mplayer uses ~15-20% of cpu, depending on if it's flac or mp3 I'm playing |
| 13:07.11 | vi_ | fwiw mplayer alsa output is absolute shite. |
| 13:07.25 | vi_ | It crashes CONSTANTLY. |
| 13:07.34 | vi_ | FOrcing you to restart it with ctrl+c |
| 13:07.50 | japh | cries |
| 13:08.06 | vi_ | japh: why you are not using open media player? |
| 13:08.31 | japh | I don't know what it is or if I've tried it |
| 13:08.45 | japh | but everything I've tried is horribly userhostile |
| 13:08.52 | vi_ | It is like the normal stock media player but with MOAR FEETURES!!! |
| 13:09.05 | japh | I'll check it out |
| 13:10.18 | japh | ... but not today it seems |
| 13:10.34 | japh | I have a n950 to go checkout :D |
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| 13:13.01 | vi_ | japh HOW?? |
| 13:13.03 | vi_ | japh: HOW?? |
| 13:13.12 | vi_ | Where did you get an n950? |
| 13:13.20 | japh | sweden! |
| 13:13.25 | vi_ | o0 |
| 13:13.30 | petteri | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:13.30 | vi_ | is this legitimate? |
| 13:13.40 | vi_ | Dont worry, I will not tell. |
| 13:13.56 | japh | heh |
| 13:13.56 | japh | yes |
| 13:14.03 | vi_ | japh: developer program? |
| 13:14.15 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: Which module is that? It is not in Qt for sure. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679236 ? |
| 13:14.17 | povbot | 04Bug 679236: was not found. |
| 13:14.19 | japh | oh you meant if I got it from nokia? |
| 13:14.24 | japh | that I did not |
| 13:14.30 | freemangordon | povbot: shut up |
| 13:14.30 | povbot | freemangordon: Error: "shut" is not a valid command. |
| 13:14.40 | vi_ | ...but that is the only place to get one. |
| 13:14.46 | japh | 'yeah' :) |
| 13:19.31 | vi_ | japh: not gonna talk huh? |
| 13:21.00 | japh | I happened to befriend someone who got one for dev and eventually my charm payed off |
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| 13:25.02 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: qtm-location I'd guess |
| 13:25.40 | japh | I didn't think they were that attractive, most people seems to like the n9 but I really can't stand not having a keyboard |
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| 13:34.02 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: which qt-mobility version do you use? |
| 13:40.06 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I seem to have the cssu versions installed, but this target hasn't been upgraded to CSSU. |
| 13:40.45 | zeq_laptop | hmm |
| 13:40.58 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: CSSU has qtm 1.0.2, maybe you need 1.2.0, which is in extras-devel afaik |
| 13:41.13 | freemangordon | but I still fail to see which symbol is missing :) |
| 13:42.34 | zeq_laptop | except I've been asked to try to maintain non-CSSU compatibility... extras-devel is even less compatible... |
| 13:42.40 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: iirc I toldya to enable the thumb repo and to upgrade the target. You MUST do that, otherwise your Qt mkspecs won't be correct |
| 13:43.03 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: you're using gcc 4.6.2 |
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| 13:43.23 | freemangordon | you're not compatible with anything but CSSU-thumb :D |
| 13:43.33 | zeq_laptop | I have a target configured that way |
| 13:43.44 | freemangordon | which way? |
| 13:43.49 | zeq_laptop | time to start compilinng again..? :) |
| 13:43.55 | freemangordon | wait |
| 13:44.00 | freemangordon | let me help you |
| 13:44.01 | zeq_laptop | with cssu-thumb |
| 13:44.19 | zeq_laptop | I have an upgraded scratchbox target |
| 13:44.25 | freemangordon | yeah, QT in CSSU is 4.7.4 |
| 13:44.27 | zeq_laptop | with cssu-thumb |
| 13:44.33 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 13:44.40 | freemangordon | but qtm is still 1.0.2 |
| 13:44.53 | freemangordon | and AFAIK for HARM you need 1.2.0 |
| 13:45.06 | zeq_laptop | but I'm currently using a target which is not cssu, but has the repo in sources.list |
| 13:45.20 | freemangordon | and gcc 4.2.1? |
| 13:45.21 | zeq_laptop | and is up-to-date otherwise |
| 13:45.25 | zeq_laptop | gcc-4.6 |
| 13:45.40 | freemangordon | naah, you shuld enable cssu-thumb repo |
| 13:45.51 | freemangordon | and do apt-get update/upgrade |
| 13:46.45 | zeq_laptop | sorry, yes cssu-thumb is in sources list, upgraded, but not with release upgrade |
| 13:46.55 | zeq_laptop | other target is fully upgraded |
| 13:47.00 | freemangordon | it is not needed |
| 13:47.12 | freemangordon | siple upgrade should do the job |
| 13:47.16 | freemangordon | *simple |
| 13:47.27 | zeq_laptop | it has the cssu-thumb qt libs installed I think |
| 13:47.37 | zeq_laptop | I guess they don't get held back |
| 13:47.38 | freemangordon | as long as you have qt-dev-...-bla-bla-thumbN you're ok |
| 13:47.55 | freemangordon | *libqt-dev... |
| 13:48.36 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: could you pastebin the exact linker erroro message? |
| 13:49.31 | zeq_laptop | I don't have the build log |
| 13:50.05 | zeq_laptop | it's building currently with the failing code #if 0'd |
| 13:50.19 | zeq_laptop | It will probably fail... |
| 13:50.20 | freemangordon | that won't work |
| 13:50.23 | freemangordon | :D |
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| 13:50.25 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 13:51.17 | zeq_laptop | what's the qt-mobility package called? |
| 13:51.39 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: do you have that one? https://bug679236.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=553396 |
| 13:51.41 | zeq_laptop | qtm |
| 13:51.53 | freemangordon | let me check |
| 13:52.02 | zeq_laptop | libqtm |
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| 13:52.28 | zeq_laptop | I don't have it installed! |
| 13:52.40 | zeq_laptop | I need to add it to the build-dep for my fennec build |
| 13:53.05 | zeq_laptop | you'd think the the configure would have mentioned something... :S |
| 13:53.59 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: libqtm-12 |
| 13:54.10 | freemangordon | that is qt-mobility 1.2 |
| 13:54.18 | freemangordon | but try with 1.0.2 first |
| 13:54.22 | zeq_laptop | didn't have that either |
| 13:54.37 | freemangordon | yeah, that is the one in extyras-devel |
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| 13:54.59 | zeq_laptop | I'm getting tempted to set up scratchbox on my server... |
| 13:55.09 | freemangordon | :D |
| 13:55.24 | freemangordon | BTW did you looak at the link i posted |
| 13:55.29 | freemangordon | *look |
| 13:55.59 | zeq_laptop | I'll see if it needs applying |
| 13:56.31 | freemangordon | because it adds PKG_CONFIG for qtm :P |
| 13:57.07 | freemangordon | and missing QtLocation LD flags :) |
| 13:57.23 | zeq_laptop | it's already in |
| 13:57.50 | freemangordon | so how is your configure not failing then ?!? |
| 13:58.00 | zeq_laptop | good question! |
| 13:58.16 | freemangordon | hmm, is there autoconf.sh? |
| 13:58.33 | zeq_laptop | where? |
| 13:58.49 | freemangordon | sorry, autogen.sh |
| 13:58.56 | freemangordon | in main directory |
| 13:59.12 | freemangordon | where did you get the source from? |
| 13:59.27 | freemangordon | so I can look at debian stuff |
| 13:59.30 | zeq_laptop | mozilla ftp |
| 13:59.39 | freemangordon | no git? damn |
| 13:59.57 | zeq_laptop | I thought I'd do better to at least work from a beta release :) |
| 14:00.36 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: seems debian/rules is screwed, is it you to make it? |
| 14:00.52 | zeq_laptop | http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/candidates/14.0b7-candidates/build3/source/ |
| 14:01.02 | freemangordon | thanks |
| 14:01.06 | zeq_laptop | I think that's the right one |
| 14:01.28 | freemangordon | i need tar.bz one? |
| 14:01.42 | zeq_laptop | I'm using the debian/rules from maemo |
| 14:01.46 | zeq_laptop | -extras |
| 14:01.54 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
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| 14:01.59 | zeq_laptop | it's not very nice though |
| 14:02.07 | freemangordon | but it should work |
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| 14:04.03 | zeq_laptop | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:06.26 | zeq_laptop | I did take a look at the ubuntu fennec package, it's rather dependent on ubuntu though |
| 14:07.26 | freemangordon | let me check what is in maemo-extras |
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| 14:08.37 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: may I have you mozconfig |
| 14:08.41 | freemangordon | *your |
| 14:09.03 | zeq_laptop | sure |
| 14:10.23 | zeq_laptop | http://pastebin.com/sTpX6w3a |
| 14:10.43 | freemangordon | 10x |
| 14:12.16 | zeq_laptop | think enable-application is wrong... maybe |
| 14:13.05 | freemangordon | gimme some time to download the source |
| 14:13.46 | freemangordon | aah, control dependencies are for GTK build ;) |
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| 14:14.30 | zeq_laptop | I changed it because there only seems to be infrastructure in place for mobile/xul and mobile/android |
| 14:15.27 | zeq_laptop | the old fennec was built against gtk, but that's been bit-rotting since v7 |
| 14:16.09 | zeq_laptop | the qt version has seen a lot of optimization since then |
| 14:17.36 | freemangordon | yeah, sure, my comment was that debian/control has nothing to do with th real requirements |
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| 14:18.26 | zeq_laptop | yes, I changed it locally |
| 14:18.57 | zeq_laptop | there's also a dependency on python-simplejson |
| 14:19.02 | zeq_laptop | needed for build |
| 14:19.05 | zeq_laptop | not listed |
| 14:20.02 | freemangordon | thanks. BTW you're missing -O2 |
| 14:20.33 | zeq_laptop | the package seems to take care of -Os -O3 depending on component |
| 14:20.47 | freemangordon | hmm, strange. OK |
| 14:20.57 | zeq_laptop | I mean the mozilla build system itself |
| 14:21.00 | freemangordon | ok, build started |
| 14:21.05 | freemangordon | yeah, got it |
| 14:21.27 | zeq_laptop | hope you have fast hw ;) |
| 14:21.35 | freemangordon | yep |
| 14:21.48 | freemangordon | 4 phenom 955 BE cores |
| 14:21.54 | freemangordon | 3.2 GHz |
| 14:22.02 | zeq_laptop | similar to my server |
| 14:22.08 | freemangordon | should be fast enough |
| 14:22.16 | zeq_laptop | I've been building on core2duo laptop though |
| 14:22.26 | freemangordon | wow |
| 14:22.33 | freemangordon | that sounds slow |
| 14:22.43 | zeq_laptop | definitely slower |
| 14:22.59 | zeq_laptop | server is noisy when it's busy though |
| 14:23.06 | zeq_laptop | gets annoying |
| 14:24.18 | zeq_laptop | the laptop is nicely undervolted, so it has to be working really hard to get the fan really spinning |
| 14:24.21 | freemangordon | sure, but it takes 35 minutes to build Qt here, 10 to build the kernel :). So I can live with the noise |
| 14:25.32 | SpeedEvil | My fan is spinning really fast here. |
| 14:25.38 | SpeedEvil | And the laptop is quite hot |
| 14:25.45 | SpeedEvil | But then, it is in the bright sunshine. |
| 14:25.50 | zeq_laptop | undervolting really helps |
| 14:26.16 | zeq_laptop | takes time and patience to profile though |
| 14:26.51 | zeq_laptop | same as n900 |
| 14:27.09 | zeq_laptop | except that doesn't burn my legs! :) |
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| 14:34.13 | teotwaki | freemangordon: I'll raise you my dual i5 2500k |
| 14:34.51 | teotwaki | <fake intel fanboi> AMD SUCKS! </> |
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| 14:36.59 | freemangordon | teotwaki: :D. I've been AMD fan since the days I was running my 486DX2@80 at 100 MHz. 50 MHz VLB, it was flying :P |
| 14:38.05 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: it needs alsa too. but why alsa, I think pulseaudio is the way to go on n900 |
| 14:38.29 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I had an AMD 5x86 running at 150Mhz, 50MHz VLB, quite a machine :) |
| 14:39.43 | freemangordon | yeah :) |
| 14:40.09 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: what about alsa? |
| 14:40.26 | zeq_laptop | what about alsa? |
| 14:40.38 | freemangordon | checking for alsa... Package alsa was not found in the pkg-config search path. |
| 14:40.39 | freemangordon | Perhaps you should add the directory containing `alsa.pc' |
| 14:40.49 | freemangordon | that is fennec configure |
| 14:40.50 | zeq_laptop | didn't spot that |
| 14:41.14 | freemangordon | AFAIK alsa sucks on n900, let me check where is that configured |
| 14:41.45 | zeq_laptop | is it needed for the WebM support or something? |
| 14:41.53 | zeq_laptop | doesn't it use gstreamer? |
| 14:42.10 | freemangordon | n900? yes, it uses gstreamer |
| 14:42.31 | zeq_laptop | I mean fennec/webm |
| 14:42.40 | freemangordon | aah, NFC |
| 14:43.56 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: Need alsa for Ogg, Wave or WebM decoding on Linux. Disable with --disable-ogg --disable-wave --disable-webm |
| 14:44.10 | freemangordon | well, lets install it then |
| 14:45.01 | zeq_laptop | yes, we definitely want those features :) |
| 14:46.18 | freemangordon | the correct package is libasound2-dev |
| 14:46.28 | zeq_laptop | I already had it installed |
| 14:46.54 | freemangordon | yeah. BTW I am adding those to debian/control |
| 14:47.07 | zeq_laptop | it's already in my control file |
| 14:47.08 | freemangordon | so next time Depends: will be ok |
| 14:47.13 | freemangordon | :D |
| 14:47.23 | freemangordon | well, now it is in mine too :P |
| 14:47.43 | freemangordon | may I have your depends: |
| 14:48.38 | zeq_laptop | http://pastebin.com/4DnmgQng |
| 14:48.44 | freemangordon | 10x |
| 14:49.36 | zeq_laptop | I added libqtm-dev, don't know if it needs 1.2 yet as you know |
| 14:50.00 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 14:50.25 | freemangordon | btw you should depend only on libqt4-dev for building, without the other qt packages |
| 14:50.35 | zeq_laptop | ok |
| 14:51.04 | zeq_laptop | others should be in run-time deps |
| 14:51.10 | zeq_laptop | don't know why i did that |
| 14:51.13 | zeq_laptop | error |
| 14:51.22 | freemangordon | yeah, happens |
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| 14:54.29 | zeq_laptop | I do think I made a mistake specifying mobile/xul, what do you have it set to? |
| 14:54.49 | freemangordon | in mozconfig? |
| 14:54.54 | freemangordon | I am using yours |
| 14:55.02 | zeq_laptop | actually, ignore me |
| 14:55.18 | zeq_laptop | it seems mobile is an alias for mobile/xul anyway from configure output |
| 14:55.23 | freemangordon | let me check what are the options |
| 14:55.32 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
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| 14:58.44 | freemangordon | ok, build process started |
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| 15:01.43 | freemangordon | hmm, it failed because some file missing, let me start over |
| 15:02.46 | zeq_laptop | missing file? |
| 15:03.03 | freemangordon | yeah, something in asm/ |
| 15:03.12 | zeq_laptop | strange |
| 15:03.30 | freemangordon | yeah, but I tried to build it with -nc flag |
| 15:03.48 | freemangordon | most probably that is the reason |
| 15:07.44 | zeq_laptop | -nc is probably broken given the debian/rules unpacks during build |
| 15:07.53 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 15:08.05 | zeq_laptop | it's a bit yucky |
| 15:08.22 | freemangordon | Ill, fix that once the build is ok |
| 15:08.41 | freemangordon | s/Ill, /I'll / |
| 15:09.11 | freemangordon | "/home/maemo/workspace/tmp/fennec-14.0b7/mozilla-beta/js/src/assembler/assembler/MacroAssemblerARM.cpp:48:26: fatal error: asm/procinfo.h: No such file or directory |
| 15:09.12 | freemangordon | " |
| 15:09.20 | freemangordon | WTF? |
| 15:09.26 | zeq_laptop | not had that problem here |
| 15:09.37 | freemangordon | linux-headers? |
| 15:09.45 | zeq_laptop | probably |
| 15:10.16 | zeq_laptop | I have no /usr/include/asm/procinfo.h though |
| 15:10.36 | freemangordon | it is in /usr/share/source AFAIK |
| 15:11.05 | zeq_laptop | I have no /usr/share/source |
| 15:11.29 | freemangordon | lets ask google |
| 15:12.41 | zeq_laptop | doesn't sound like it should be being included |
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| 15:14.34 | zeq_laptop | ah |
| 15:14.36 | freemangordon | #if LINUX_VERSION_CODE < KERNEL_VERSION(2,6,28) |
| 15:14.36 | freemangordon | #include <asm/procinfo.h> |
| 15:14.43 | freemangordon | funny, isn't it |
| 15:14.43 | zeq_laptop | what kernel version do you have? |
| 15:15.05 | zeq_laptop | why does it matter? :S |
| 15:15.06 | freemangordon | Linux maemo-desktop-13 2.6.32-41-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue May 22 11:31:25 UTC 2012 arm GNU/Linux |
| 15:15.38 | freemangordon | yeah, should not |
| 15:15.44 | zeq_laptop | wtf is causing that to happen? |
| 15:16.04 | freemangordon | any clue where LINUX_VERSION_CODE is defined |
| 15:16.19 | zeq_laptop | yes |
| 15:16.26 | zeq_laptop | /usr/include/linux/version.h |
| 15:17.03 | zeq_laptop | it's included just above the code you quoted ^^ ;( |
| 15:17.06 | zeq_laptop | ;) |
| 15:17.15 | freemangordon | #define LINUX_VERSION_CODE 132630 |
| 15:17.19 | freemangordon | WTF? |
| 15:17.31 | zeq_laptop | 132636 |
| 15:18.07 | freemangordon | yeah, seems I have to install linux-headers-cssu |
| 15:18.28 | zeq_laptop | I have "linux-kernel-headers" installed |
| 15:18.38 | zeq_laptop | not sure which repo that's from |
| 15:19.02 | freemangordon | cssu-thumb :P |
| 15:19.13 | zeq_laptop | explains it :) |
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| 15:22.23 | freemangordon | hmm, for some reason apt-get thinks linux-kernel-headers in cssu-thumb are lower version than those in sdk repo :S |
| 15:22.50 | zeq_laptop | why did it get work for me? |
| 15:22.57 | freemangordon | NFC |
| 15:23.50 | freemangordon | damn. the package name is linux-kernel-cssu-headers :( |
| 15:26.15 | zeq_laptop | mine is definitely linux-kernel-headers |
| 15:26.47 | freemangordon | I have that installed too, NFC why it has a lower linux version |
| 15:27.13 | freemangordon | well, after installing kernel-cssu-headers it seems ok |
| 15:28.22 | zeq_laptop | good :) |
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| 15:37.30 | freemangordon | hmm, its getting noisy here :D |
| 15:40.31 | zeq_laptop | no more errors? |
| 15:40.40 | freemangordon | yep |
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| 16:01.21 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: is there a reason for specifying vfp in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS over neon? (The cortex-a8 has a really incapable vfp unit.) |
| 16:02.21 | zeq_laptop | I was just thinking about the thumb SDK howto |
| 16:02.36 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: AFAIK gcc vectoriser sucks |
| 16:02.49 | zeq_laptop | even on 4.6? |
| 16:03.12 | freemangordon | otherwise that is a legacy from ARMEL_FREMANTLE target |
| 16:03.18 | freemangordon | NFC |
| 16:03.19 | zeq_laptop | I read on wikipedia the VFP is 10x slower |
| 16:03.26 | freemangordon | could be |
| 16:04.09 | freemangordon | but AFAIK you should enable -munsafe-math too, as NEON has some precision incompatibilities with ieee standart |
| 16:04.31 | freemangordon | otherwise vectoriser wouldn't kick in |
| 16:04.55 | freemangordon | It is possible I am talking bullshit too :D |
| 16:05.54 | zeq_laptop | you could well be right, if so it's a rational for the default at least |
| 16:06.06 | zeq_laptop | s/rational/rationale/ |
| 16:06.44 | zeq_laptop | however, I suspect if a typical order of magnitude performance difference is typical... |
| 16:07.05 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: I is the same situation as with MMX/SSEx AFAIK, you should use asm to have some speed gain |
| 16:07.12 | freemangordon | *It |
| 16:07.32 | zeq_laptop | well -mfpmath=sse is std on x86_64 |
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| 16:08.05 | freemangordon | yeah, but do you thing ARM gcc is as advanced as x86/64 is? I doubt. |
| 16:08.12 | freemangordon | *think |
| 16:08.38 | freemangordon | well, now we have a modern gcc version we can do some tests |
| 16:08.43 | zeq_laptop | indeed |
| 16:08.55 | freemangordon | just need to find a victim to be optimized |
| 16:08.56 | zeq_laptop | 4.2 was pretty horrible |
| 16:09.32 | freemangordon | on the other hand I think we already have neon/pld optimized memcpy in libc6 |
| 16:09.35 | zeq_laptop | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Advanced_SIMD_.28NEON.29 |
| 16:09.47 | zeq_laptop | mentions mp3 as a victim |
| 16:10.21 | zeq_laptop | mp3 stream decoding @10Mhz |
| 16:10.32 | freemangordon | yeah, but it should be hand-coded, I don't think gcc can make it |
| 16:10.49 | freemangordon | WOW, linking libxul :) |
| 16:11.01 | zeq_laptop | the vectorizor was seriously improved in 4.6 |
| 16:11.27 | freemangordon | could be, I don't have much deeper knowledge on gcc internals |
| 16:11.33 | zeq_laptop | might need -ftree-vectorize though to turn it on |
| 16:11.47 | freemangordon | yeah, that one too |
| 16:12.05 | freemangordon | along with -funsafe-math |
| 16:12.14 | freemangordon | (or whatever the switch was) |
| 16:12.22 | zeq_laptop | not relevent for fennec though because it is hand coded for NEON |
| 16:12.35 | zeq_laptop | -ffast-math |
| 16:12.43 | freemangordon | aah, yeah :) |
| 16:12.54 | zeq_laptop | or theres -Ofast today too |
| 16:13.07 | zeq_laptop | that one's fun for breaking things :) |
| 16:13.43 | zeq_laptop | (My entire Gentoo is built with it btw) |
| 16:14.11 | zeq_laptop | except where it's *known* to break things |
| 16:15.02 | zeq_laptop | most packages actually check during configure for ieee754 compliance where they need it |
| 16:15.22 | zeq_laptop | it's just those which don't... |
| 16:15.31 | freemangordon | damn, what size has libxul in fennec, it is linking for the last 5 minutes :O |
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| 16:15.50 | zeq_laptop | it's probably big |
| 16:16.03 | freemangordon | yeah, probably :) |
| 16:16.37 | freemangordon | I hope I won't run out of RAM |
| 16:16.52 | _PanzerSajt | hy |
| 16:17.01 | zeq_laptop | with fennec 7 from extras it's 21.7M stripped |
| 16:17.13 | freemangordon | hmm, I am already OOM :( |
| 16:17.20 | zeq_laptop | how much do you have? |
| 16:17.36 | freemangordon | It's a virtual machine, 1GB |
| 16:17.44 | freemangordon | otherwise I have $ |
| 16:17.46 | freemangordon | 4 |
| 16:17.59 | zeq_laptop | I'm going to hit the same limit aren't I.../ |
| 16:18.18 | zeq_laptop | can we give it more? |
| 16:18.30 | freemangordon | lets hope 1.5 GB of swap will be enough |
| 16:19.09 | zeq_laptop | is it scratchbox that's limited? or are you running in a separate VM? |
| 16:19.38 | freemangordon | I am running Nokia's wmware image |
| 16:19.46 | freemangordon | *vmware |
| 16:19.47 | zeq_laptop | oh right ok |
| 16:19.54 | zeq_laptop | so I should be okay ... |
| 16:19.55 | freemangordon | ok, ld failed |
| 16:20.08 | freemangordon | undefined reference to `MaemoLocationProvider::SetHighAccuracy(bool)' |
| 16:20.09 | zeq_laptop | :( |
| 16:20.13 | zeq_laptop | hmm |
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| 16:20.25 | zeq_laptop | OOM? |
| 16:20.30 | zeq_laptop | or missing symbol? |
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| 16:20.35 | freemangordon | noo, it is a missing symbol |
| 16:20.40 | freemangordon | the same as yours |
| 16:20.43 | zeq_laptop | THE missing symbol |
| 16:20.51 | freemangordon | THE missing symbol |
| 16:21.04 | freemangordon | are you shure the patch from romaxa is there |
| 16:21.05 | freemangordon | ? |
| 16:21.11 | zeq_laptop | yes |
| 16:21.36 | zeq_laptop | It might be worth trying with it reverted |
| 16:21.45 | zeq_laptop | I've no idea where that comes from |
| 16:21.55 | freemangordon | but why it cannot find it then. BTW I don't see any libqtm libs in ld command line, only Qt ones |
| 16:21.57 | zeq_laptop | in the bugzilla entry it talks about Android |
| 16:22.12 | freemangordon | hmm,let me check PKG_CONFIG |
| 16:22.26 | zeq_laptop | yet my googling reveals that API is related to qtm |
| 16:22.55 | freemangordon | well, that could explain why |
| 16:24.03 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: that is from config.log: |
| 16:24.13 | freemangordon | "/scratchbox/compilers/arm-linux-fremantle-gcc4.6.2/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.6.2/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lQtSensors" |
| 16:26.30 | zeq_laptop | which is? |
| 16:26.53 | zeq_laptop | is it related? |
| 16:27.22 | freemangordon | configure:16153: checking for QtSensors QtFeedback QtLocation |
| 16:27.31 | freemangordon | is it? :P |
| 16:28.13 | freemangordon | could be that PKG_CONFIG cannot find libwtm package on fremantle |
| 16:28.48 | zeq_laptop | okay, so what is libwtm? |
| 16:29.12 | freemangordon | sorry, typo, libqtm |
| 16:29.35 | freemangordon | damn, there is no QtSensors package |
| 16:29.45 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I have a symlink: libQtSensors.so -> libQtSensors.so.1.0.2 |
| 16:29.50 | zeq_laptop | but no libQtSensors.so.1.0.2 |
| 16:30.02 | freemangordon | but there is no pkgconfig package |
| 16:30.03 | zeq_laptop | missing lib in qt |
| 16:30.04 | zeq_laptop | ? |
| 16:30.11 | zeq_laptop | there is no lib |
| 16:30.12 | freemangordon | no, missing .pc |
| 16:30.15 | zeq_laptop | just the symlink |
| 16:30.35 | freemangordon | there is a library, but no .pc in -dev package |
| 16:30.53 | zeq_laptop | I don't have the lib |
| 16:31.12 | zeq_laptop | I have a symlink belonging to libqtm-dev |
| 16:31.21 | freemangordon | hmm, me too |
| 16:31.22 | zeq_laptop | the lib is missing here |
| 16:31.33 | freemangordon | seems after all we need libqtm12 |
| 16:32.24 | freemangordon | Or I screwed it up when libqtm was build |
| 16:32.32 | freemangordon | lemme check |
| 16:32.58 | zeq_laptop | is it installed into /usr/lib or opt? |
| 16:33.31 | freemangordon | it should be in /opt |
| 16:33.32 | zeq_laptop | qtm-12 is installed into /opt/qtm12 |
| 16:33.47 | freemangordon | qtm is in /opt/maemo/usr/lib |
| 16:33.55 | zeq_laptop | I decided to install it since you didn't, just in case |
| 16:34.15 | zeq_laptop | but there's a b0rken symlink in /usr/lib |
| 16:34.18 | freemangordon | but you should change which version to be used, hold on |
| 16:34.22 | freemangordon | it is not so simple |
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| 16:35.49 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: seems I screwed up qtm-sensors.install, lemme fix it |
| 16:35.56 | zeq_laptop | libqtm-dev doesn't pull in the binaries |
| 16:36.10 | freemangordon | it depends on the other packages |
| 16:36.28 | freemangordon | give me 10 minutes to fix qt-mobility package |
| 16:36.34 | zeq_laptop | libqtm-sensors at least isn't installed |
| 16:36.42 | zeq_laptop | I have no broken deps |
| 16:37.17 | freemangordon | hmm, correct |
| 16:37.23 | zeq_laptop | libqtm-location is installed though |
| 16:37.44 | zeq_laptop | except -dev creates symlinks to non-existant libs |
| 16:37.56 | zeq_laptop | at least QtSensors |
| 16:38.00 | zeq_laptop | anyway |
| 16:38.01 | freemangordon | damn, seems -dev package dependencies are screwed |
| 16:38.13 | freemangordon | apt-get install libqtm-sensors does the job |
| 16:38.32 | zeq_laptop | is it the only missing one? |
| 16:38.39 | freemangordon | I think so |
| 16:39.18 | zeq_laptop | that fixed my symlink |
| 16:39.28 | zeq_laptop | I wonder if it's too late for my build |
| 16:39.46 | freemangordon | I am afraid yes :( |
| 16:40.12 | freemangordon | as you win't have -lQtSensors |
| 16:40.14 | zeq_laptop | pretty silly of configure allowing it to continue |
| 16:40.21 | freemangordon | yep |
| 16:40.39 | zeq_laptop | ^C |
| 16:40.41 | freemangordon | I'm starting over, thanks god it takes only 30 minutes here |
| 16:42.59 | freemangordon | but will increase my RAM to 2GB before that |
| 16:43.10 | zeq_laptop | good idea |
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| 16:45.43 | zeq_laptop | I wonder if it would be worth using neon instead of vfp even for scalar math given the a8's VFPLite? |
| 16:46.27 | zeq_laptop | I'm going to look into the non-conformance issue |
| 16:46.34 | freemangordon | switching between neon/vfp is a very heavy op, something like 25-50 CPU ticks |
| 16:47.54 | zeq_laptop | so it's better if it's used more if it all |
| 16:48.17 | freemangordon | but have in mind everything else is vfp |
| 16:48.56 | zeq_laptop | any idea how it interacts with the context switch buffer flush hit? |
| 16:49.11 | zeq_laptop | (from the thumb bug workaround) |
| 16:49.40 | freemangordon | should not be affected by it AIUI, it is BTB that is flushed |
| 16:50.02 | freemangordon | and that should have nothing to do with neon state |
| 16:50.24 | zeq_laptop | I still would rather see some benchmarks than reach premature conclusions |
| 16:50.48 | freemangordon | or think a while that neon shares the same registers/execution pipeline with vfp |
| 16:51.54 | zeq_laptop | how much is vfp really used though? what's going to be running fp heavy? serious question |
| 16:52.16 | freemangordon | hildon? |
| 16:52.49 | zeq_laptop | that's easy enough to NEONize though |
| 16:52.52 | freemangordon | all transitions are calculated using doubles |
| 16:53.09 | freemangordon | (and not floats ;) ) |
| 16:53.19 | freemangordon | NFC how is that compiled |
| 16:53.28 | freemangordon | but suspect it is vfp |
| 16:54.22 | zeq_laptop | yeah, that's a complication |
| 16:55.05 | freemangordon | there is even a proposed patch for hildon-desctop replacina all sin/cos, etc with fsin,fcos, and doubles with floats |
| 16:55.06 | zeq_laptop | is a double really necessary for that? |
| 16:55.21 | zeq_laptop | indeed |
| 16:55.25 | freemangordon | didn't make it in CSSU, don't ask me why |
| 16:55.49 | freemangordon | should not be really needed |
| 16:56.04 | freemangordon | I mean double precision. |
| 16:56.51 | freemangordon | But having in mind there is libclutter used, which is double precision, I wonder how much the gain will be |
| 16:57.23 | zeq_laptop | worth testing I'd have thought |
| 16:58.08 | freemangordon | well, join CSSU team then |
| 16:58.18 | freemangordon | BTW for how long do you have your n900? |
| 16:58.41 | zeq_laptop | ~1.5 years |
| 16:58.55 | zeq_laptop | 3rd N900 actually (USB) |
| 16:59.18 | freemangordon | hmm, why it took you so long to join the fun? Or I am missing something |
| 16:59.40 | zeq_laptop | you're not missing anything |
| 16:59.47 | zeq_laptop | I was busy with Gentoo |
| 16:59.59 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 17:00.03 | zeq_laptop | only so many hours in a day |
| 17:00.24 | freemangordon | yeah, I know :) |
| 17:01.21 | freemangordon | hmm, that looks better "Mem: 2061488 1759064 302424" |
| 17:02.31 | zeq_laptop | I really should have become a full Gentoo Dev, but never took the test. |
| 17:03.45 | zeq_laptop | I didn't see the need since I could fix things through bugzilla, and overlays, but lately fixes never seem to make their way from the bugzilla. |
| 17:03.57 | zeq_laptop | OT though |
| 17:04.32 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: I was not joking about CSSU, we really need more devs there, think about it |
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| 17:05.11 | freemangordon | and have in mind the real fun is starting now, as I see it |
| 17:05.13 | zeq_laptop | Really need to brush up on my Debain-fu |
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| 17:06.11 | zeq_laptop | I agree, although I'm somewhat concerned about divergence from mer |
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| 17:07.06 | freemangordon | well, SB and git is a piece of cake, I am not linux developer only(because of my job), n900 was my first contact with debian, my knowledge was on fedora |
| 17:07.36 | zeq_laptop | git is no problem, and I'm getting the hang of SB |
| 17:08.08 | zeq_laptop | I just forgot a lot about Debain packaging over the years |
| 17:08.23 | zeq_laptop | like the various patch systems |
| 17:08.49 | freemangordon | well, to be honest all of the packages I saw because of n900 have different debian/rules :D |
| 17:09.09 | freemangordon | and it seems only quilt is used |
| 17:09.55 | freemangordon | anyway, it is up to you, but feel welcomed |
| 17:10.04 | zeq_laptop | I read earlier that quilt is now integrated in format3 rules |
| 17:10.12 | freemangordon | (hmm, welcomed? is there such a word in english?) |
| 17:10.23 | zeq_laptop | thanks, I probably will :) |
| 17:10.30 | zeq_laptop | yes |
| 17:10.37 | freemangordon | aah, thanks |
| 17:10.47 | zeq_laptop | but not that usage ;) |
| 17:10.51 | zeq_laptop | only kidding |
| 17:10.53 | freemangordon | :D |
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| 17:11.22 | zeq_laptop | you should feel welcome to join/or welcomed aboard |
| 17:11.43 | freemangordon | aaah, yeah, thanks |
| 17:12.34 | freemangordon | hmm, still not hitting swap, thats good |
| 17:13.22 | zeq_laptop | more more errors in config.log? |
| 17:13.49 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: BTW have in mind kernel-cssu which is currently a dependency (i.e. is installed on your n900) has a bug |
| 17:14.12 | zeq_laptop | oh? |
| 17:14.19 | freemangordon | thumb-2 related, there is a newer version in the repo, but it breaks mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 17:14.46 | zeq_laptop | I should wait then? |
| 17:14.52 | freemangordon | I am wating to see if X crashes are really fixed before making a new release |
| 17:15.53 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: well, most probably no, the bug is: when a thumb2-compiled signal handler is called, it is possible some fun things to happen |
| 17:16.27 | zeq_laptop | like corruption? |
| 17:17.07 | freemangordon | like whatever you can imagine if first 1-4 instructions of the functions are not executed :D |
| 17:17.13 | freemangordon | *function |
| 17:17.19 | freemangordon | i.e. signal handler |
| 17:17.24 | zeq_laptop | LOL |
| 17:17.27 | zeq_laptop | that's not good! |
| 17:17.38 | freemangordon | who said it is |
| 17:17.52 | freemangordon | the good think is there is a fix |
| 17:18.05 | freemangordon | and I compiled a kernel with that fix |
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| 17:18.39 | freemangordon | so far it seems pretty OK, running on my primary device (the only phone I am using) |
| 17:19.14 | freemangordon | WTF? |
| 17:19.19 | freemangordon | "/home/maemo/workspace/tmp/fennec-14.0b7/mozilla-beta/dom/system/unix/QTMLocationProvider.h:40:34: fatal error: QGeoPositionInfoSource: No such file or directory" |
| 17:19.22 | zeq_laptop | I'm running the version with the bug on my primary device, it's obiously not hit too often |
| 17:19.37 | zeq_laptop | fun |
| 17:19.39 | freemangordon | do you hit it at all? |
| 17:19.43 | zeq_laptop | not yet |
| 17:19.57 | freemangordon | yeah, that is a tricky one |
| 17:20.06 | zeq_laptop | although I'm cooking dinner atm and on battery which slows the laptop down |
| 17:20.30 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: http://git.et.redhat.com/?p=kernel-kraxel.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=d71e1352e240dea32d481ad8d662e8de4406ac7e |
| 17:20.36 | zeq_laptop | (BIOS override with media bay battery - don't ask) |
| 17:21.19 | freemangordon | That is the kernel bug I hit when thumb-compiled X |
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| 17:22.25 | freemangordon | nice, isn't it :) |
| 17:22.38 | zeq_laptop | our kernel's that old now...? |
| 17:22.41 | zeq_laptop | :( |
| 17:22.55 | freemangordon | well, there are lots of backports |
| 17:22.57 | zeq_laptop | I forgot how old it is |
| 17:23.40 | zeq_laptop | even more backports in KP/CSSU |
| 17:23.47 | zeq_laptop | but still |
| 17:23.57 | freemangordon | this IS KP |
| 17:24.03 | zeq_laptop | yes, I know |
| 17:24.18 | freemangordon | v -pre51 |
| 17:24.45 | zeq_laptop | I just meant that even though the kernel has a lot of backported fixes, it's still a very old kernel by now |
| 17:25.01 | freemangordon | yeah, but there is no better option for fremantle so far |
| 17:25.02 | zeq_laptop | some fixes get missed |
| 17:26.28 | zeq_laptop | is there any plan to eventually transition to mer+hildon? |
| 17:27.13 | zeq_laptop | or is there not sufficient coverage of non-distributable binaries for a fully functional device? |
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| 17:27.30 | freemangordon | none afaik. And TBH there are still too many pieces missing |
| 17:27.48 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: GF came, have to go :) |
| 17:27.59 | freemangordon | happy fennec-building |
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| 17:28.42 | zeq_laptop | okay see you later |
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| 18:09.13 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: when you get back, I've determined the reason for the build failure: QTDIR is unset which results in various paths being from "/" instead of "/usr", specificly in the case of the build failure: $QTDIR/include/QtLocation |
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| 18:54.11 | freemangordon | zeq_laptop: I am semi-back, but thanks. Anyway I won't have time today to continue fennec building, hope you succeed |
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| 19:02.30 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: that's no problem, thanks for your help with it so far. Hit the next failure now; no QFeedbackEffect |
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| 19:24.33 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: It does need at least qtm-11 for QtFeedback, but qtm-11-dev doesn't install the pkgconfig files. |
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| 20:18.47 | kaizerslawten | Hello Guys |
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| 20:40.41 | Raimu | freemangordon: Why's the new kernel break the mp? |
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| 21:04.02 | freemangordon | Raimu: because mp depends on the exact kernel version |
| 21:04.13 | freemangordon | not on ( >= ) |
| 21:04.26 | Raimu | Drat. |
| 21:05.52 | freemangordon | Raimu: well, take it easy, if there are still no crashes in the next 12 hours (i.e. till tomorrow evening) I will made a new update, everything is in place but mp- thingie |
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| 21:08.58 | freemangordon | Raimu: I don't want to distribute something I am not convinced it is stable. And it is really hard to hit that bug, seems noone but me (because of X) has trigger it. |
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| 21:11.03 | Raimu | Yep, I understand.. I only did wonder why put it in early. |
| 21:13.00 | freemangordon | Raimu: because it takes some time to upload about 100 MBs to the repo, I prefer to have everything uplodaed in advance as I cannot plan my free time ;) |
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| 21:19.26 | esaym153 | gdb is not in any repos for the n810? |
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| 21:24.57 | Raimu | freemangordon, touché :) |
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| 21:57.35 | vi__ | stop everything. |
| 21:57.40 | vi__ | we have a winner. |
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| 21:58.02 | vi__ | "Thumb2, better than speedpatch." |
| 21:59.07 | Woody14619 | lol! |
| 21:59.39 | Woody14619 | awards vi__ a trophy for his great find. |
| 22:00.03 | Woody14619 | I almost want to print that out and hang it on my cube wall... |
| 22:03.37 | vi__ | Woody14619: so is maemo.org toast? |
| 22:04.38 | vi__ | Woody14619: I have space on a webserver if that can help? |
| 22:05.03 | Woody14619 | I don't think so... We have some internal fighters still. Nothing can be said officially, but I suspect we'll get the 6 months promissed at least, if not 12 or so. |
| 22:05.09 | vi__ | could probably run the forums from it and hold the wiki. |
| 22:05.41 | Woody14619 | And Reggie has offered a complete dump of the forum, as that's all his systems/servers/content.... |
| 22:06.13 | vi__ | Woody14619: at the very least I WILL be hosting the firmware images and flasher program. |
| 22:06.41 | Woody14619 | What I worry about really is the garages and repos. But I susspect that there are at least one or two mirrors out there already, and those will have lots of time to get stuff from before they close, if they're hit. |
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| 22:07.37 | vi__ | I could probably hold a mirror as well. |
| 22:08.07 | vi__ | although I have NFC how to set that up. |
| 22:08.10 | Woody14619 | And, there's a rush on to get OBS up, running, and maybe now even packaged so individuals can get it (and the blobs needed from Nokia) to run their own setup. |
| 22:09.08 | Woody14619 | So, No... I don't think the end is neigh. But even if it is, we're pretty close to being able to limp along on our own as a community if it happens. |
| 22:09.47 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 22:10.09 | vi__ | somehoe I do not see TMO becomming a subforum in another forum. |
| 22:10.23 | Woody14619 | The problems with mirrors are: Some of the blobs are not something you can redist (or even fetch for that matter), as their proprietary Nokia. And even if you did, the bandwidth would kill just getting it, yet alone offering it to others. |
| 22:10.26 | vi__ | ^somehow |
| 22:10.56 | Raimu | Chuckling at "Better than Speedpatch" |
| 22:11.01 | Raimu | Seeing that'd kill me. |
| 22:11.27 | vi__ | freemangordon can stop now. |
| 22:11.34 | Woody14619 | Like OVI store... If Nokia goes away, those apps do too. (Save the few that crafty folks may have figured out how to re-package) |
| 22:11.35 | vi__ | he has reached his zenith. |
| 22:12.00 | DocScrutinizer06 | fsck thumb |
| 22:12.04 | vi__ | Woody14619: fortunaltley there was nothing but shit in the ovi store. |
| 22:12.20 | vi__ | ^fortunatley. |
| 22:12.20 | Woody14619 | But vi__ it thumb-2 will never compete with the next version of speedpatch. (Due out tomorrow, right? ;) |
| 22:12.33 | DocScrutinizer06 | 97% risk for 15% savings |
| 22:12.43 | Woody14619 | nods, a little... There is Angry Birds in OVI store, after all... |
| 22:13.00 | Woody14619 | needs his Angrey Birds fix... |
| 22:14.09 | Woody14619 | I've seen worse compromises Doc. ;) |
| 22:14.14 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer06: risk of what? |
| 22:14.34 | vi__ | Woody14619: 14619 is your zipcode? |
| 22:14.47 | Woody14619 | And I think the 97% risk is a tad high... Since so far the patch has worked 100%. |
| 22:14.55 | Woody14619 | nods to vi__ |
| 22:15.27 | Woody14619 | You know now where I (and ~35K other people) live. |
| 22:16.28 | vi__ | the odds in favour of your anonimity just got a whole shitload slimmer. |
| 22:16.39 | Woody14619 | .oO(If you had the +4, you could come pee on my lawn...) |
| 22:17.22 | Woody14619 | Well, considering my city/state is in my profile, and there are only 5 zips in the city... not by much. :) |
| 22:18.07 | vi__ | your foolishness with personal privacy has allowed me to rule out the entire southern hemisphere. |
| 22:18.17 | vi__ | you cannot hide forever woody. |
| 22:18.53 | DocScrutinizer06 | vi__: risk of 69% users fsckd |
| 22:19.00 | Woody14619 | Pleh... You'd have better luck tracking my IP back through IRC... that makes me one of 300 people working for the company. |
| 22:19.34 | Woody14619 | How so, DocScrutinizer06? |
| 22:19.51 | MrPingu | What's wrong with thumb2? I have been using it without any problems, so far |
| 22:19.58 | MrPingu | Note: I started fresh |
| 22:20.15 | DocScrutinizer06 | the patches are not verified to work against "normal apps" |
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| 22:20.33 | MrPingu | Define "normal apps" |
| 22:20.42 | DocScrutinizer06 | BlessN900 |
| 22:20.44 | Woody14619 | That's being done now, AFAIK... And really, lots of folks have been using "normal apps" for some time now. |
| 22:20.59 | Woody14619 | I'd hardly use BlessN900 as an example of "normal" |
| 22:21.03 | DocScrutinizer06 | MyACMEapp |
| 22:21.24 | Woody14619 | Considering it broke itself each time Nokiia released a new PR... |
| 22:21.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: though it is |
| 22:21.38 | DocScrutinizer06 | we all live in a bubble |
| 22:21.57 | MrPingu | Is it tested on a fresh device? |
| 22:22.01 | DocScrutinizer06 | there are probably 2 mio sold N900 |
| 22:22.17 | Woody14619 | Besides, it' not like this is going into Extras... It's going into a sub-repository behind another sub-repository. |
| 22:22.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | users in this chan: 278 |
| 22:22.37 | Woody14619 | You have to enable CSSU, then enable CSSU-testing. |
| 22:22.49 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: and I'm all fine with that |
| 22:22.57 | Woody14619 | 90% of the world hasn't even turned on Extras, as it's off by default. |
| 22:23.09 | Jaffa | Woody14619: No, it's on by default in Fremantle |
| 22:23.14 | DocScrutinizer06 | incorrect, since PR1.2 |
| 22:23.14 | Woody14619 | Maybe 1% have CSSU installed. |
| 22:23.24 | vi__ | Woody14619: and how many fucking spacker mongs have installed T2 because they think it is just the next upgrade release... |
| 22:23.27 | vi__ | ? |
| 22:23.42 | vi__ | there be a shit storm a brewin' |
| 22:23.45 | Woody14619 | Only as many as complain on TMO... so.. 4. :) |
| 22:23.51 | MrPingu | Pick me |
| 22:23.58 | Woody14619 | Again, this assumes it breaks things. |
| 22:24.09 | Woody14619 | Which so far it has not. |
| 22:24.10 | MrPingu | No, I exactly knew it's testing |
| 22:24.20 | DocScrutinizer06 | vi__: no way |
| 22:24.31 | Woody14619 | And it's being tested by plenty of folks right now... |
| 22:25.05 | DocScrutinizer06 | plenty by which metrics? |
| 22:25.21 | MrPingu | Really I haven't had any problem so far :) |
| 22:26.01 | DocScrutinizer06 | WFM is no argument when it comes to Millions of deployed systems |
| 22:26.27 | Woody14619 | So, yes, will someone enable CSSU, CSSU-Testing, and then go grab zeebra-pron-0m5-thumb2 just because they can? Sure. But they'll already have speedpatch installed, so it's not like they'll notice if something else breaks. |
| 22:26.46 | DocScrutinizer06 | thimb is fine for those who want to gamble with it. It's no way ever an alternative for CSSU |
| 22:27.04 | Woody14619 | Doc, as I recall you used this same argument against CSSU and KP 6 months ago, no? |
| 22:27.28 | DocScrutinizer06 | I never used any argument against CSSU |
| 22:27.47 | Woody14619 | hmmm.. maybe it was chemist. :P |
| 22:28.08 | DocScrutinizer06 | KP however is breaking module compatibility and thus never qualifies for an recommended upgrade |
| 22:28.20 | zeq_laptop | freemangordon: how did libqtm11/12 ever build? multimedia.pro contanis -march=armv7a instead of armv7-a, fixing that and there's a build failure at: qgraphicsvideoitem_maemo5.cpp |
| 22:28.22 | Woody14619 | There we go... |
| 22:28.58 | DocScrutinizer06 | BlessN900 (and nnn other commercial apps) need kernel module compatibility |
| 22:29.21 | vi__ | brb |
| 22:29.28 | DocScrutinizer06 | we're not doing CSSU for the 278 in here |
| 22:29.30 | Woody14619 | Then if you want BlessN900, don't install KP. Simple. |
| 22:29.40 | DocScrutinizer06 | indeed |
| 22:30.00 | DocScrutinizer06 | you're however allowed and encouraged to install CSSU |
| 22:30.21 | Woody14619 | No, not any more than you are KP. |
| 22:30.22 | DocScrutinizer06 | and that's why CSSU will never include a new kernel |
| 22:30.29 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer06: no one else who is left still using N900 care about cssu etc. |
| 22:30.37 | Woody14619 | I know far more people that overclock via KP than use CSSU... Just saying. |
| 22:30.52 | DocScrutinizer06 | doesn't matter |
| 22:30.56 | vi__ | ^that is not already on TMO etc. |
| 22:31.03 | vi__ | ~tmo |
| 22:31.03 | infobot | [tmo] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen. |
| 22:31.05 | DocScrutinizer06 | CSSU is official SSU |
| 22:31.13 | DocScrutinizer06 | by community |
| 22:31.23 | DocScrutinizer06 | for *everybody* |
| 22:31.42 | jacekowski | ~t-mo |
| 22:31.42 | infobot | well, t-mo is T-Mobile |
| 22:31.54 | jacekowski | ~maemo |
| 22:31.56 | Woody14619 | I'm still trying to see your point here Doc. Thumb, AFAIK, is going to be in a separate sub-repo, requiring KP >=50 |
| 22:32.12 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer06: but your *everybody* includes joe shitmuncher who doesnt care about kp. He does not exist anymore. |
| 22:32.12 | DocScrutinizer06 | no problem with me |
| 22:32.50 | DocScrutinizer06 | we're discussing null issues |
| 22:32.55 | DocScrutinizer06 | n8 |
| 22:33.17 | Woody14619 | So in that reguard, it's not going to be *in* CSSU, nor require it as far as I can see. |
| 22:34.05 | zeq_laptop | DocScrutinizer06: how's your c++? |
| 22:34.26 | Woody14619 | Eventually, someone will make zeebra-pron-0m5-thumb2 and make it only for thumb though... which will pull in the scruffy nerf hearders, like it always does. But again, they have to jump through two flaming hoops to get there... so... If they burn, it's on em. |
| 22:34.45 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: ack |
| 22:35.04 | Woody14619 | .oO(That's what backupmenu is for, right?) |
| 22:35.21 | DocScrutinizer06 | not exactly |
| 22:35.44 | DocScrutinizer06 | BM can roll back, but nor create alternative branches |
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| 22:36.50 | zeq_laptop | attempting to rebuild libqtm11 due to missing pkgconfigs, hits this after fixing above mentioned -march=armv7a error: http://pastebin.com/yCbY1Xu7 |
| 22:36.51 | Woody14619 | True, but that roll-back is essentially a re-flash, minus firmware and kernel (for now), so... |
| 22:36.58 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: the basic axiom is: pick up as many users as possible where they are. With all their needs and restrictions they face |
| 22:37.26 | Woody14619 | For CSSU, yes... |
| 22:37.33 | DocScrutinizer06 | yes, only for CSSU |
| 22:37.45 | zeq_laptop | code is viewable here: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/2a2b7c24c714ea65c6cf732175fc60a1867dae08/src/multimedia/qgraphicsvideoitem_maemo5.cpp |
| 22:37.46 | DocScrutinizer06 | for PK we go bleeding edge |
| 22:37.53 | DocScrutinizer06 | for thumb |
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| 22:38.21 | MrPingu | That's why we have cssu-stable |
| 22:38.25 | Woody14619 | For KP and thumb, it's more about giving functionality to an older device for the ones that are going to stay on it when the new shiny comes out and the rest of the nerfs throw away their old device for a new one. |
| 22:38.35 | DocScrutinizer06 | MrPingu: stable and testing |
| 22:38.56 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: yes |
| 22:39.13 | MrPingu | IMO: testing can be bleeding edge too |
| 22:39.13 | zeq_laptop | I can't make out what's wrong with the code given the error. (if *anybody* can help) |
| 22:39.27 | Woody14619 | And frankly, with the age of the N900, lots of nerfs have left. The community is quickly approaching non-nerf status. |
| 22:39.29 | DocScrutinizer06 | we of course should break new ground. But not on CSSU |
| 22:40.11 | DocScrutinizer06 | CSSU is the genuine continuation of Nokia SSU |
| 22:40.26 | Woody14619 | Why not? And again, this is not something, last I knew, that was being rolled into CSSU. |
| 22:40.31 | MrPingu | but I agree thumb2 supported kernel should be in PK, cssu-kernel doesn't belong in ssu |
| 22:40.38 | Woody14619 | It's reliant on KP50, not CSSU. |
| 22:40.51 | MrPingu | Just for the very reason you mentioned earlier |
| 22:41.14 | MrPingu | With PK v50 in extras |
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| 22:41.28 | zeq_laptop | I'm with DocScrutinizer06, and I'm working on thumb related things. There's no problem having both streams. |
| 22:41.29 | Woody14619 | zeq_laptop, and whats the error you're getting again? |
| 22:41.56 | zeq_laptop | http://pastebin.com/yCbY1Xu7 |
| 22:42.04 | MrPingu | Can extras-devel be used for a v51 with thumb ;) |
| 22:42.09 | Woody14619 | I agrees.. that's why I'm trying to figure out why Doc is so down on thumb? |
| 22:42.42 | DocScrutinizer06 | I'm just disappointed nobody verifies THUMB |
| 22:42.52 | zeq_laptop | verifies? |
| 22:42.56 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles) |
| 22:43.24 | MrPingu | Idk, however "it's working fine for me said by Mrpingu (normal user #999)" insnt a scientific proof |
| 22:43.25 | zeq_laptop | if you mean for stablility, we're doing that through active testing. |
| 22:43.26 | Woody14619 | Again, I think it's being verified.... |
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| 22:44.12 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: you killed the thumb repo : |
| 22:44.15 | merlin1991 | *:P* |
| 22:44.16 | DocScrutinizer06 | verifies as in "deliver *proof* is's a fix" |
| 22:44.17 | MrPingu | OTOH, if there are many working fines we can render it tested... |
| 22:44.32 | DocScrutinizer06 | WFM is no proof |
| 22:44.39 | Woody14619 | There are "normal" apps in the OVI store that break constantly that obviously got less "verification" than thumb is already. |
| 22:44.40 | merlin1991 | reprepro by default removes older verions |
| 22:44.50 | merlin1991 | and your kernel update you uploaded removed the old one xD |
| 22:44.53 | DocScrutinizer06 | too many savvy people dispised thumb |
| 22:45.23 | DocScrutinizer06 | you're not rehabilaizing it with "WFM" |
| 22:45.31 | Woody14619 | Doc: many savy people also dispised overclocking.... Yet it's a pretty common practice there days... |
| 22:45.39 | zeq_laptop | DocScrutinizer06: that's why thumb2 was developed |
| 22:45.55 | zeq_laptop | original thumb was god awful |
| 22:46.05 | DocScrutinizer06 | and we seen pretty a number of fuckedup devices |
| 22:46.20 | MrPingu | Of OC? |
| 22:46.28 | DocScrutinizer06 | with NONe OF THEM been caused by OC |
| 22:46.37 | DocScrutinizer06 | ;-P |
| 22:47.03 | MrPingu | I guess it's more because user fault, not knowing what they are doing |
| 22:47.18 | MrPingu | While OC can be stable if done right ;) |
| 22:47.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | 95% of users silently binned the N900 when it went apeshit due to OC |
| 22:47.42 | zeq_laptop | DocScrutinizer06: evidence? |
| 22:47.48 | *** join/#maemo soltys (soltys@czaj.net) |
| 22:48.01 | DocScrutinizer06 | MrPingu: nope, OC is like running your car engine with two times the RPM it's designed for |
| 22:48.06 | MrPingu | Now SR is fixed it's even easier for end-users to use good OC-settings |
| 22:48.10 | DocScrutinizer06 | it will wear out |
| 22:48.16 | Woody14619 | Doc, I've had my device overclocked since before Titan put out kernels... No damage yet. |
| 22:48.49 | MrPingu | I run however for 2 weeks without OC and it's doing fine actually :P |
| 22:48.51 | zeq_laptop | underclocking and mild overclocking doesn't wear it out any quicker |
| 22:48.54 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: I run my car around teh block at 22800RPM once a week since 5 yreas |
| 22:49.05 | zeq_laptop | I meant *unvolting* |
| 22:49.11 | Woody14619 | And yes, it's like over reving your engine. But then I see little Honda Fit's every day with a custom huge engine and jacked up tires... |
| 22:49.31 | DocScrutinizer06 | zeq_laptop: aha, and you know that because you designed the OMAP chip? |
| 22:49.33 | zeq_laptop | it's the current and heat that kills |
| 22:50.05 | zeq_laptop | I know that from the principle of electron migration |
| 22:50.15 | DocScrutinizer06 | aha, you again know that because you invented integrated circuits? |
| 22:50.38 | Woody14619 | Doc: The point being, if YOU don't want that, then by all means, don't YOU install it. But to poo-poo people doing work to make life better for those that want to take that (far less than 1%) risk... seems a tad silly. |
| 22:51.03 | MrPingu | Anyway I think OC is not that bad as you propose it is... |
| 22:51.19 | zeq_laptop | It is bad if you just ramp up the clockspeed/voltage |
| 22:51.22 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: I'm not doing any of that |
| 22:51.40 | DocScrutinizer06 | I'm just not taking shit from amateurs |
| 22:51.43 | Woody14619 | Especially when it's not being tied to or injected into anything "stable" or main-stream. |
| 22:51.51 | *** join/#maemo JakDaRippa (~JakDaRipp@208.49.211.113) |
| 22:51.55 | MrPingu | I won't discuss it anyfurther as I can't come up with good arguments ;) |
| 22:52.09 | MrPingu | My knowledge is just too low :P |
| 22:52.31 | DocScrutinizer06 | that's the point |
| 22:53.05 | MrPingu | That's why I said: I Think.. |
| 22:53.09 | DocScrutinizer06 | I'm building chips for bagles now |
| 22:53.26 | Woody14619 | Doc: Galileo was considered and amateur astrologer in his day. People poo-pooed his theories all the time... but turns out he was right in the end on most of it. |
| 22:53.39 | DocScrutinizer06 | I see the results of test our engineers at chipfab do |
| 22:53.45 | Woody14619 | Being and ameture != always wrong. |
| 22:54.10 | zeq_laptop | DocScrutinizer06: and what do they tell you? |
| 22:54.19 | MrPingu | Woody14619 you give a bit of confidence haha :P |
| 22:54.32 | DocScrutinizer06 | they tell me it's 49-dimesional problem |
| 22:54.51 | Woody14619 | Sounds reasonable to me. :) |
| 22:54.54 | DocScrutinizer06 | and things like UV and temperaturee are just 2 of those dimensions |
| 22:55.58 | DocScrutinizer06 | you goddomn dunno what's gonna happen when you OC, but odds are it WILL hirt your chip |
| 22:56.07 | Woody14619 | And yet, they can make a chip that runs at 500Mhz with a reasonable MTBF... And you believe them when they say that, but not when someone say, if we up this a little, we can get it to run at 600 without much life loss. |
| 22:56.12 | zeq_laptop | yep, current, cosmic rays, quantum events ... |
| 22:56.49 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: EM is a e^x function |
| 22:56.54 | Woody14619 | I don't think anyone argues that OC doesn't have potential to lower the life of the chip.. |
| 22:57.05 | MrPingu | How many of these fscked device were caused ONLY by OC? |
| 22:57.13 | zeq_laptop | as undervolting increases it |
| 22:57.25 | DocScrutinizer06 | kicks in at 528, at 533 it hits the roof, at 600 it skyrockets |
| 22:57.51 | Woody14619 | It clearly does. But the failure rate on the chip is ~5 years. If OC lessens that life by a year, but lets you actually continue to USE the device another 2 vs getting a faster one when you "need" it, what's lost? |
| 22:58.19 | DocScrutinizer06 | omap has EOL of 100k@500 and 10k@600 |
| 22:58.30 | DocScrutinizer06 | guess what it has at 700 |
| 22:58.48 | Woody14619 | Would you sooner not have the OC option, and have people dump the device like the GTA02 when something faster comes along? |
| 22:59.13 | Woody14619 | Or have the option to OC and have that device be viable for another year, vs in a land-fill. |
| 22:59.15 | zeq_laptop | DocScrutinizer06: they are mean failure times |
| 22:59.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | I just hate dudes that think they can argue from their primary scool math |
| 22:59.31 | zeq_laptop | it could be *worse* ;) |
| 22:59.43 | DocScrutinizer06 | zeq_laptop: yep |
| 23:00.25 | DocScrutinizer06 | actually it's 15 of 1000 assumed dead after 10k hours @ 600 |
| 23:00.38 | DocScrutinizer06 | at extended temp range |
| 23:00.53 | zeq_laptop | do they have the stats for undervolting? |
| 23:01.04 | DocScrutinizer06 | NOBODY of you all did those testes |
| 23:01.06 | Woody14619 | And 10K @600 takes how long for a typical user? Considering it runs 95% of it's life at 0... |
| 23:01.09 | zeq_laptop | I am genuinely curious |
| 23:01.09 | DocScrutinizer06 | or sis anybody? |
| 23:01.22 | DocScrutinizer06 | did* |
| 23:02.05 | Woody14619 | Doc: yes... TI did. Which is why they sold them as 500Mhz devices and not 700Mhz. Their ramps are in the chip spec. And are not that dramatic. |
| 23:02.29 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: you can cosider whatever you like. Your neighbour, watching lots of vidoes via mplayer w/o DSP accel, may have different results. WERY different |
| 23:02.31 | Woody14619 | And Titan DID project out that curve, which is why his suggestion was not to go over 850. |
| 23:02.54 | zeq_laptop | 805 I believe |
| 23:03.00 | MrPingu | Is our chip in N900 originally clocked at 500 and overclocked to 600 by Nokia? |
| 23:03.25 | Woody14619 | Doc: That same neighbor playing videos on stock is going to get the same life out of it, if not less, when he can't watch 720p and goes and gets a new Android device after a year. |
| 23:03.51 | MrPingu | Or wat that a random example, Woody14619? |
| 23:03.58 | DocScrutinizer06 | MrPingu: yep |
| 23:04.06 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.49.190.34) |
| 23:04.37 | DocScrutinizer06 | MrPingu: TI recommendations: 100kh @OPP1..4 15kH@OPP5 |
| 23:04.40 | DocScrutinizer06 | iirc |
| 23:04.42 | Woody14619 | Again... if the *usable* lifetime of a device can be extended via OC, you've lost nothing. |
| 23:05.36 | Woody14619 | If the option is get a new device or OC the one you have to keep up, one makes more land fill. Who cares if it lessens the life of the device which you would have otherwise thrown away? |
| 23:05.45 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: then you need to argue on THAT basis, and you'll not see any post from me |
| 23:06.07 | Woody14619 | At > 2 years post launch, I think that's pretty much the given at this point. |
| 23:06.16 | DocScrutinizer06 | arguing "OC is safe as we don't know for sure"... MEH |
| 23:06.39 | MrPingu | Besides shorter life time of chip are there more considerable negative effects? |
| 23:06.47 | zeq_laptop | This reminds me, the very laptop I'm on a Dell Lattitude, from Dell comes with BIOS voltages above std values for the chip in order to reduce initial failure rates from marginally defective silicon! |
| 23:06.49 | DocScrutinizer06 | no |
| 23:06.56 | DocScrutinizer06 | MrPingu: ^^^ |
| 23:07.16 | DocScrutinizer06 | shorter battery standby time maybe |
| 23:07.46 | Woody14619 | .oO(Now you're opening the door for "race to finish" debates... ;) |
| 23:07.52 | DocScrutinizer06 | MrPingu: however chip usually doesn't cease to work, it just "segfaults" every more often |
| 23:08.10 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: not really |
| 23:08.16 | Woody14619 | And/or nukes your flash data. |
| 23:08.24 | DocScrutinizer06 | yep, that too |
| 23:08.24 | ds3 | are there currently any reliable source for replacement digitizers on the N900? |
| 23:08.40 | DocScrutinizer06 | saremi |
| 23:08.43 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.49.190.34) |
| 23:08.47 | Woody14619 | some would say OC would allow longer standby, as what work is being done finishes faster. |
| 23:08.53 | ds3 | saremi is a store/site/person? |
| 23:09.03 | MrPingu | Hmm, don't buy from phf (germany) |
| 23:09.15 | zeq_laptop | Woody14619: that there is actually some research on |
| 23:09.25 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: I know "race to finish" concept |
| 23:09.45 | DocScrutinizer06 | MrPingu: shop |
| 23:09.52 | Woody14619 | As do I. At least 2 tests were done (one by vi__, one by Titus) that shows the "optimal" speed near 500Mhz. |
| 23:10.09 | MrPingu | Yet, they are offering to pay back shippingcosts twice |
| 23:10.15 | Woody14619 | So, that's a good argument for a min-clock of 500. Though not one for overclock per-se. ;) |
| 23:10.48 | MrPingu | Though I have lost a bit of trust... |
| 23:11.16 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: 500? surprise surprise ;-P |
| 23:11.29 | Woody14619 | Almost like it was designed to go that fast? ;) |
| 23:11.56 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/ <--- is this the site you are suggesting? |
| 23:12.19 | DocScrutinizer06 | Woody14619: there's another aspect: thermal design |
| 23:12.36 | MrPingu | Thinking of just ignoring and buy it from saremi, like you suggested, doc |
| 23:12.37 | MrPingu | Or just hope I get a genuine one after this time... |
| 23:12.43 | DocScrutinizer06 | all Nokia hw engineers warned us to lock CPU at even 600 |
| 23:12.44 | Woody14619 | Again, we're in violent agreement on this... :P |
| 23:12.47 | MrPingu | Or send it back, and ask for refund and then buy from saremi :P |
| 23:13.20 | MrPingu | Choices, choices... :P |
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| 23:13.49 | Woody14619 | Except that, I say, if people want to OC, let them. Where you seem to say, don't bother with OC (or thumb, or other misc micro-enhacement) as it won't be used by the masses. |
| 23:14.18 | ds3 | whoa... $120 |
| 23:14.19 | Woody14619 | If that were the case, items like the N900 (and the GTA* series, and smart cars, and ....) wouldn't exist. |
| 23:14.35 | DocScrutinizer06 | no, I hate it as I feel bad buying used N900 |
| 23:15.33 | ds3 | was there 2 entirely different releases of the N900? the 'original' N900 stuff do not match what I got |
| 23:15.35 | DocScrutinizer06 | aI'm perfectly happy with somebody deliberatly frying his N900 @ 1.2GHz for numer crunching, as he needs his PIN for credit card |
| 23:16.16 | Woody14619 | I picked up a refurb from a Chinese distributer a couple months ago for about that... Old guts, new kb, case, stylus, battery, etc. |
| 23:16.28 | Woody14619 | No ds3... If the stats are not the same then it's a knockoff. |
| 23:16.29 | DocScrutinizer06 | I hate tose 'experts' suggesting Nokia and TI don't know shit and "WFM, since 7 months now!!!1!1!!1eleven" |
| 23:17.00 | Woody14619 | I don't think anyone actually involved in OC have ever said that... |
| 23:17.24 | MrPingu | Ds3, be aware there ARE fake digitizers |
| 23:17.25 | DocScrutinizer06 | if you're aware and accepting you're frying your CPU by OC, go on do it if you think it's worth it |
| 23:17.33 | ds3 | Woody14619: the original USB cables I got had a different overmold then pictured... also I didn't get a micro to old style charger adapter... mine came from Dell so I wonder if the US had different stuff |
| 23:17.35 | Woody14619 | Why blame them for something a nerf says after locking their device on1100Mhz? |
| 23:17.36 | zeq_laptop | Am I the only one who thinks undervolting is more significant anyway? |
| 23:17.42 | ds3 | MrPingu: sigh. |
| 23:17.55 | ds3 | I should just go learn to manufacture my own |
| 23:17.57 | DocScrutinizer06 | ~oc |
| 23:17.57 | infobot | from memory, oc is an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s |
| 23:18.06 | *** join/#maemo r00t|n900 (~r00t@89.204.138.222) |
| 23:18.09 | DocScrutinizer06 | ~omap-oc |
| 23:18.09 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 |
| 23:18.28 | Woody14619 | zeq_laptop: No... I agree, especially enabling SR1/SR2, which Nokia just didn't want to put the effort into to optimize. |
| 23:18.31 | DocScrutinizer06 | ~factinfo oc |
| 23:18.31 | infobot | oc -- created by jameswf-home <n=james@ip72-204-221-181.ph.ph.cox.net> at Mon Feb 25 00:03:20 2008 (1576 days); it has been requested 13 times, last by DocScrutinizer06, 34s ago. |
| 23:18.45 | DocScrutinizer06 | ~overclocking |
| 23:18.45 | infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" |
| 23:19.04 | Woody14619 | ds3: yes, the US one came with the converter (from Nokia USA anyway) |
| 23:19.41 | DocScrutinizer06 | thanks apt! |
| 23:19.49 | MrPingu | As much as I like to hang aroun any longer here, I have to get some sleep |
| 23:19.52 | MrPingu | Bye! |
| 23:19.54 | DocScrutinizer06 | ~botsnack |
| 23:19.54 | infobot | DocScrutinizer06: :) |
| 23:20.23 | zeq_laptop | MrPingu: you're not alone ... goodnight |
| 23:20.35 | DocScrutinizer06 | n8, now for real |
| 23:20.49 | Woody14619 | doc: I think really, since the package to install warns of just that, that it's a known.... |
| 23:21.20 | DocScrutinizer06 | you'd start to wheep if you'd seen what I've, in this chan |
| 23:21.50 | zeq_laptop | Woody14619: I would agree, except why the hell does it go upto 1150?!? |
| 23:22.14 | DocScrutinizer06 | don't assume any degree of stupidity at $user, you're underestimating |
| 23:22.40 | zeq_laptop | it really should be limited to something like 805. |
| 23:22.45 | ds3 | Hmmm |
| 23:22.50 | Woody14619 | again... If I put out the super-gizmo-app that lets you make your system X times faster at the cost of 1/X of it's life, and state that in the installer... It seems wrong to punish or rant becuase someone make X=99 for their device and then whines. |
| 23:23.24 | *** join/#maemo soltys (soltys@czaj.net) |
| 23:23.24 | DocScrutinizer06 | nobody rants |
| 23:23.31 | Woody14619 | zeq: And who decides that? You? Council? Technically, Nokia did decide that... at 600. |
| 23:23.42 | Woody14619 | doc: I disagree... scroll up... ;) |
| 23:23.43 | DocScrutinizer06 | [20.06.2012 01:17:23] <DocScrutinizer06> if you're aware and accepting you're frying your CPU by OC, go on do it if you think it's worth it |
| 23:24.16 | zeq_laptop | Woody14619: it's so far out of spec for any random omap |
| 23:24.20 | Woody14619 | And again, it's part of the package install... it pops up a user UI that you must click OK on to install. |
| 23:24.39 | Woody14619 | zeq_laptop: And yet some can handle it... |
| 23:24.47 | zeq_laptop | for a while |
| 23:24.52 | Woody14619 | yup. |
| 23:25.09 | Woody14619 | Again.... X times the speed, 1/X times the life. |
| 23:25.10 | DocScrutinizer06 | ok, I (eben *I*) click OK so many times with just wondering what I did *after* I did |
| 23:25.33 | DocScrutinizer06 | but I agree we can't do any better |
| 23:25.49 | DocScrutinizer06 | and no, I don't think it should be limited to XXX |
| 23:26.14 | Woody14619 | Trust me... I regular TMO.... I've seen the wailing when someone installs CSSU and wants out, not realizing they need to reflash to go back. |
| 23:26.44 | DocScrutinizer06 | I just hope everybody clearly mentions 2it *will* shorten your CPU lifetime by a probably remarkable timespan, but otherise it seems to work" |
| 23:26.48 | Woody14619 | Despite it being in the repo description, and the main package update, and the wiki, and... |
| 23:27.17 | zeq_laptop | Woody14619: that's because it isn't from Nokia, so how can it be *official* |
| 23:27.46 | zeq_laptop | regarding CSSU |
| 23:28.04 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.49.191.26) |
| 23:28.13 | DocScrutinizer06 | there's just too many fools out there that use primary scool math and physics to claim they *know* OC is SAFE |
| 23:28.17 | Woody14619 | And all the documentation pretty much does, as does the installer. Now, abill_uk, he'll argue till the death that it's 100%, but he also thinks Elop has cameras setup in his house spying on him to get new ideas for the new Maemo7 prototype due out next month... |
| 23:28.54 | Woody14619 | nods |
| 23:29.19 | Woody14619 | shrieks: "There's someone on the internet, and their WRONG!" |
| 23:29.26 | Woody14619 | they're |
| 23:29.27 | DocScrutinizer06 | and me is a character that powers up the ICBM and MTHELs when reading that |
| 23:29.37 | zeq_laptop | Woody14619: better the first time :) |
| 23:30.05 | Woody14619 | http://xkcd.com/386/ |
| 23:30.10 | zeq_laptop | DocScrutinizer06: yet they won't listen, because they *know* |
| 23:30.32 | DocScrutinizer06 | zeq_laptop: *sigh* I learnt you're right |
| 23:31.09 | DocScrutinizer06 | ~xkcd |
| 23:31.09 | infobot | rumour has it, xkcd is http://xkcd.com/ or only the best webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math and language. |
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| 23:31.36 | Woody14619 | And on that note.... I'm off. Have a nice night/morning/whatever-damn-time-it-is-where-you're-at. |
| 23:31.46 | zeq_laptop | bye Woody14619 |
| 23:31.55 | DocScrutinizer06 | nite fellas, I gotta design your next modem tomorrow |
| 23:32.10 | zeq_laptop | goodnight DocScrutinizer06 |
| 23:32.16 | Woody14619 | .oO(and by gone I mean away... because really, to close the IRC window.. such a bother...) |
| 23:32.44 | zeq_laptop | closes the lid |
| 23:33.35 | DocScrutinizer06 | me mumbles "google U8500, novathor, lte" |
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| 23:38.06 | DocScrutinizer06 | http://www.stericsson.com/products/L8540.jsp |
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