| 00:00.07 | orangey | what's so crazy about it? |
| 00:00.26 | orangey | the declaration that we're all gonna die? |
| 00:00.35 | robbiethe1st | Oh, I'm sure it's "possible"; if you can chroot from a init ramdisk image into the real os, you ought to be able to do the same for BMs ramdisk |
| 00:00.49 | GeneralAntilles | orangey, effectively I'm drunkblogging with no other editors to keep me in line. |
| 00:00.58 | orangey | GeneralAntilles: hahahah ; ) |
| 00:01.05 | orangey | GeneralAntilles: are you the writer of mwkn? |
| 00:01.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | one of them |
| 00:01.18 | GeneralAntilles | Not /the/, that's our Glorious Leader Jaffa. |
| 00:01.22 | GeneralAntilles | But one of a trio. |
| 00:04.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | GeneralAntilles: and we appreciate that so much, I actually have to thank you (and the other 2 guys) for your sustainable work there, and I honestly hope absolutely nothing will change wrt mwkn and the editors involved |
| 00:04.16 | GeneralAntilles | Nothing. |
| 00:04.17 | GeneralAntilles | Ever. |
| 00:04.31 | GeneralAntilles | We're not even getting Tim's new theme, 'cause I'm too lazy to integrate it. |
| 00:04.36 | GeneralAntilles | STASIS |
| 00:04.40 | robbiethe1st | DocScrutinizer, so, it seems evkey moved from /usr/sbin to /usr/bin... |
| 00:04.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-D |
| 00:04.44 | robbiethe1st | what's the deal? |
| 00:04.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | robbiethe1st: NFC |
| 00:05.01 | robbiethe1st | ? |
| 00:05.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | no idea |
| 00:05.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | no faintest clue |
| 00:05.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | who shpould do that move, and when? |
| 00:06.34 | robbiethe1st | Dunno, but one day a while back, BM stopped booting due to evkey being missing |
| 00:06.43 | robbiethe1st | I thought I lost a file, copied it over from a backup |
| 00:06.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | it might actually be the better place for evkey, but I doubt Nokia would ship an update to do that mv |
| 00:07.00 | robbiethe1st | but it seems that others have the same deal |
| 00:08.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, may I suggest you set up a path in your BM script, and call evkey unqualified? not the RIGHT WAY[TM] but maybe for this one instance the most pragmatic one |
| 00:10.42 | robbiethe1st | how about: |
| 00:10.43 | robbiethe1st | if ! `cp /usr/bin/evkey /tmp/disk/usr/sbin/`; then cp /usr/sbin/evkey /tmp/disk/usr/sbin/; fi |
| 00:10.59 | robbiethe1st | If it fails to copy from /usr/bin, then copy from /usr/sbin? |
| 00:11.18 | robbiethe1st | ... I think |
| 00:13.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | I wouldn't copy anything, not even to tmp |
| 00:13.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | aah, or are you doing that anyway already? |
| 00:13.50 | robbiethe1st | Yeah. |
| 00:13.54 | robbiethe1st | It's copying to a ramdisk |
| 00:13.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | so yep, that's the way |
| 00:14.15 | robbiethe1st | Cause, you know, formatting your rootfs when /running/ off it is not a good idea |
| 00:15.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | sure |
| 00:15.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-) |
| 00:16.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | cp /usr/*bin/evkey /tmp/disk/user/sbin/ |
| 00:17.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | one-char-fix ;-) |
| 00:17.15 | *** join/#maemo magog (~user@39.76.155.90.in-addr.arpa) |
| 00:17.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | I *love* those one-char fixes |
| 00:17.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | s/user/usr/ |
| 00:19.35 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.73.227.76) |
| 00:21.01 | robbiethe1st | Just curious, but does the N900 have the modules to use NTFS partitions? |
| 00:21.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | or cp $(find /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin -name evkey) /tmp/disk/usr/sbin/ |
| 00:22.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | robbiethe1st: (NTFS) I seem to recall somebody built those kernel modules for diablo usb hostmode |
| 00:23.04 | robbiethe1st | Alternately, isn't there a way to have tar split archives based on size? |
| 00:23.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe nowadays we got better versions, mor mainline'ish |
| 00:23.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep, there is |
| 00:23.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | though probably not in crippled messybox tar |
| 00:23.57 | robbiethe1st | That's not a problem; I'm already requiring gnu-tar |
| 00:24.10 | Hurrian | CONFIG_NTFS=m |
| 00:24.24 | Hurrian | kernel-power, at least has it |
| 00:24.45 | Hurrian | *CONFIG_NTFS_FS=m |
| 00:25.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | -M multivolume |
| 00:25.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | Hurrian: thanks :-D |
| 00:26.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | -L, --tape-length=NUMBER |
| 00:26.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | -F, --info-script=NAME, --new-volume-script=NAME |
| 00:27.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.55 | robbiethe1st | Looks possible |
| 00:30.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 00:30.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | good approach to deal with 2GB limit of VFAT |
| 00:30.41 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.164.176.6) |
| 00:30.53 | *** part/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.164.176.6) |
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| 00:35.07 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, don't touch evkey |
| 00:35.17 | Estel_ | moving it to /usr/bin was mistake |
| 00:35.19 | Estel_ | Pali fixed it already |
| 00:35.27 | Estel_ | in current version available form repos |
| 00:35.33 | Estel_ | its where it was again |
| 00:35.52 | Estel_ | afaik, on bootmenu thread, it's mentioned in last page ;) |
| 00:36.42 | robbiethe1st | I fixed it the 'best' way, allowing either way to work |
| 00:37.01 | Estel_ | nice |
| 00:37.08 | Estel_ | but for sure it won't be in /usr/bin again |
| 00:37.26 | robbiethe1st | Also finally got Bootmenu to work on my machine, so I was able to add a 'correct' bootmenu-module to backupmenu |
| 00:37.32 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, btw, aren't You one who actually got N950 frome xtended dev program last year? |
| 00:37.36 | robbiethe1st | Yeah. |
| 00:38.01 | Estel_ | so remembe,r that You can participate in CA, but only for N9 |
| 00:38.05 | robbiethe1st | I can't say I've ended up using it for much more than an alarm clock, to be honest. |
| 00:38.11 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 00:38.24 | Estel_ | could pass it to another dev |
| 00:38.40 | robbiethe1st | I don't know if I'm allowed, to be honest. |
| 00:38.42 | Estel_ | if You're not using it, it';s a problem for Yuo - in case of bein stolen or whatsnot |
| 00:38.50 | Estel_ | need to dela with Nokia and lend agreement |
| 00:38.59 | Estel_ | You're not only allowe,d but also supposed :D |
| 00:39.03 | GeneralAntilles | robbiethe1st, you can pass it to whomever you want. |
| 00:39.22 | robbiethe1st | Isn't there something about that in the NDA I signed? |
| 00:39.28 | Estel_ | don't get it like I'm trying to "rob" You from N950 - just it seems like a shame that it's taking dust |
| 00:39.30 | GeneralAntilles | For the N950 |
| 00:39.33 | GeneralAntilles | You can't sell it |
| 00:40.00 | robbiethe1st | Estel_, yeah, I understand. Not that at all. |
| 00:40.37 | robbiethe1st | It's a cool device, and /maby/ if pali, etc. were able to get bootmenu on it I could get Backupmenu, but for now... it's basically an alarm clock/camera/phone for me |
| 00:40.49 | robbiethe1st | (phone because my current N900 has a broken modem) |
| 00:40.54 | Estel_ | uh |
| 00:41.23 | Estel_ | if, in any case, You would be in need of N900 in ideal condition and USB port soldered down (reinforced), i happen to have them cheaply from time to time |
| 00:41.26 | robbiethe1st | I might give it to another real dev, but only if I could be assured that Nokia wouldn't come after me. |
| 00:41.31 | Estel_ | like 180 euro + shipping costs |
| 00:41.39 | robbiethe1st | I may, in a few months. |
| 00:41.52 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, I can ask about it in mailing list |
| 00:41.54 | Estel_ | (passing) |
| 00:41.59 | robbiethe1st | Feel free. |
| 00:42.02 | Estel_ | qgil is there,m and he is our Nokia contact |
| 00:42.17 | Estel_ | in fact, it's question rather about how to do it right way |
| 00:42.36 | Estel_ | cause I'm 1100% sure that You're not only encouraged, but also supposed to pass it, if not usinng for dev |
| 00:42.42 | Estel_ | I.e. it's "normal" wya of dealing with them |
| 00:42.53 | Estel_ | some people already did that (passed further) |
| 00:42.54 | robbiethe1st | Other thing is, you wouldn't know anyone able to actually /fix/ a N900's usb port would you? My old one's at the point you'd have to solder to some small points further in, not just resolder the pads |
| 00:43.29 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, yea, i know, it's me :D but I must wanr You, that it's not veyr chepa to do properly |
| 00:43.36 | robbiethe1st | Like how much? |
| 00:43.40 | Estel_ | I've fixed a dozen or so N900 for people @ maemo.org |
| 00:43.46 | Estel_ | let me get into details first ok? |
| 00:43.51 | Estel_ | You got pads destroyed |
| 00:43.55 | robbiethe1st | Yes. |
| 00:44.17 | Estel_ | soldering to components later involve removing quite important part of shielding +, more importantly, is risky |
| 00:44.25 | robbiethe1st | There's an image(perhaps by you) showing two resistors inside of one of the metal cans you'd have to solder to. |
| 00:44.28 | Estel_ | i.e. destroying components that You try to solder to |
| 00:44.33 | Estel_ | proper way is to use apds beneath battery |
| 00:44.36 | Estel_ | pads* |
| 00:44.43 | Estel_ | yea, i know |
| 00:44.51 | Estel_ | generally it isn't bad way |
| 00:44.53 | robbiethe1st | don't they have no ESD protection? |
| 00:45.04 | Estel_ | no, it was FUd, courtesy of Doc |
| 00:45.11 | Estel_ | they lack common mode choke only |
| 00:45.22 | Estel_ | which is part of elegant design, although, not required in any real life situation |
| 00:45.28 | Estel_ | unless you work in core of nuclear reactor |
| 00:45.37 | Estel_ | actually, common mdoe choke limit USB 2.0 speeds a bit |
| 00:45.48 | Estel_ | more problematic is +5V, where it really lacks fuse etc |
| 00:46.00 | robbiethe1st | I think my 5V is intact... |
| 00:46.06 | Estel_ | but it is more sensible to solder them, as it don't require cutting so much ESD shielding |
| 00:46.08 | Estel_ | ah |
| 00:46.09 | Estel_ | even better |
| 00:46.13 | Estel_ | then |
| 00:46.15 | Estel_ | ground is plenty ;) |
| 00:46.31 | Estel_ | it's something like 50 euro + shipping costs both way |
| 00:46.55 | Estel_ | honestly, i'm doing it because I enjoy bringing N90's to life - considering ammount of hours needed to work on it - ultra mini things - i'm working like chinese slave :P |
| 00:47.06 | Estel_ | (considering fee/per hour) |
| 00:47.09 | robbiethe1st | Well, soldering to the pads under the battery is something I may even be able to do. Soldering to the components is far harder, and I can't do it. |
| 00:47.11 | Estel_ | still, it's too much expensive for most people |
| 00:47.18 | Estel_ | yea |
| 00:47.20 | Estel_ | but |
| 00:47.24 | Estel_ | if You have 5V intact |
| 00:47.33 | Estel_ | You can solder to it, and ground +_ USB data from beneath battery |
| 00:47.40 | Estel_ | this way You wouldn't need to solder to components at all |
| 00:47.45 | robbiethe1st | Actually, this brings up an interesting problem |
| 00:48.34 | robbiethe1st | I've got a temp-controlled 60W iron. With a fine-tipped end on it, whenever I'd try to solder a ground wire/ground contact, my solder would instantly solidify and my tip would stick |
| 00:48.45 | robbiethe1st | (likely because of all the thermal mass?) |
| 00:48.50 | robbiethe1st | how do you handle that? |
| 00:49.25 | Estel_ | I use gas-powered iron, that can handle even soldering pipes together :P |
| 00:49.34 | Estel_ | (despite small size) |
| 00:49.41 | Estel_ | but I think Your problem is with tip |
| 00:49.44 | robbiethe1st | Yeah |
| 00:49.47 | Estel_ | is it self-made one? |
| 00:49.49 | robbiethe1st | Nope |
| 00:49.54 | Estel_ | 60W sounds likme enough |
| 00:50.17 | robbiethe1st | Chinese-made, likely copper with a silver (tin?) coating |
| 00:50.21 | Estel_ | N900 doesn't have so much thermal mass, unless soldering iron is passing heat to end of tip too slowly |
| 00:50.37 | Estel_ | You mean ground wire/ground contatc in N900, right? |
| 00:50.42 | Estel_ | not mains power line?:D |
| 00:50.45 | robbiethe1st | Yeah. the ground pad |
| 00:51.08 | robbiethe1st | Well, with a bigger tip, I have no trouble soldering 12ga wire |
| 00:51.13 | Estel_ | hm, in worst case, ground pad beneath battery would need just keeping soldering iron next to it a little longer |
| 00:51.34 | Estel_ | hm, soldering apds beneath battery are quite big |
| 00:51.40 | Estel_ | maybe You're using too smal tip? |
| 00:51.51 | robbiethe1st | What size tip do you use? |
| 00:51.54 | Estel_ | or Your soldering iron isn't in fact 60w but only pretends to be |
| 00:52.10 | Estel_ | I got many self-made tips form cooper and other materials... |
| 00:52.22 | robbiethe1st | What diameter, then? Or do you have a picture? |
| 00:52.25 | Estel_ | for pads beneath batteyr I use regular one with *flat* ending |
| 00:52.41 | robbiethe1st | I'm looking at the - pad on the USB port |
| 00:52.46 | GeneralAntilles | Soldering the N900? |
| 00:52.46 | Estel_ | from actual USb pad - this micro one - I use, ofcourse, sharp smallest tip |
| 00:52.51 | GeneralAntilles | 60W sounds like way too much. |
| 00:52.59 | robbiethe1st | GeneralAntilles, temp controlled |
| 00:53.08 | Estel_ | GeneralAntilles, yea, but when robbiethe1st try to solder to ground, his soldering iron sodlers itself to N900 |
| 00:53.17 | Estel_ | so either thermal transfer is too slow in soldering iron -> tip |
| 00:53.24 | robbiethe1st | Which is definitely the problem |
| 00:53.25 | Estel_ | or soldering iron is 30W in reality, or so |
| 00:53.35 | Estel_ | so turn temp control to max? |
| 00:53.45 | robbiethe1st | That could work |
| 00:53.57 | Estel_ | for soldering ground, of course |
| 00:54.28 | Estel_ | unless it's working station with *real* temp control, those things with rolling resistor for temp control bundled in aren't very helpful |
| 00:54.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | fucking chanlog, Estel_ insulting me and sprwading lies once more. Now I'm fed up with it. No mister estel, missing ESD on test points under battersy is NO FUD, you *** |
| 00:54.39 | Estel_ | could help if You're soldering really delicate micro thing |
| 00:54.54 | Estel_ | yes, it is FUD, we've talked about it before. |
| 00:55.03 | Estel_ | D= and D- lacks *only* common mode choke |
| 00:55.07 | Estel_ | refer to schematics |
| 00:55.15 | Estel_ | and as I've said, +5V is lacking protection indeed |
| 00:55.32 | Estel_ | BTW, funny, You're ignoring me, yet reading every bit of line related to You? sounds cheap |
| 00:55.50 | robbiethe1st | Well, the real question is whether the d+ and d- have continuity between the ones by the battery and the ones on the USB port? |
| 00:56.04 | Estel_ | maybe I shall start ignoring You, for the change? although, I don't want to, as You're saying many really interesting things, because You're knowledgeable one... |
| 00:56.10 | robbiethe1st | If so, you'll get your protection by "backfeeding" as it were... |
| 00:56.16 | Estel_ | ...unless you go into zealot mode. Whatr's Your problem with me, really? |
| 00:56.33 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, of course, they're same usb port |
| 00:56.40 | Estel_ | don't even think about using them as 2 different ports |
| 00:56.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | robbiethe1st: honestly I'd consider carefully to take advice from somebody who outright insults experts about their qualified statements regarding easy to tread schematics, and claims it's just "FUD" |
| 00:57.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | robbiethe1st: nope, that's not how ESD protection works |
| 00:57.16 | Estel_ | of course, I also encourage You to check schematics before soldering - instead of following advices from random guy on irc ;) |
| 00:57.20 | Estel_ | I hope it concludes this |
| 00:57.29 | robbiethe1st | Don't you have diodes between the line and ground for ESD protection? |
| 00:57.55 | robbiethe1st | Isn't that what ESD protection basically /is/? |
| 00:58.02 | robbiethe1st | clamping diodes? |
| 00:58.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes, at the point where trace *enters* protected area, it's clamped by tranzorbs. Then there are other components on the way til it reaches chip |
| 00:58.23 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, clarification of ESd protection being present on under-battery-pads iwas done by blue_led |
| 00:58.43 | Estel_ | without it, it would be dangerous to connect anything to pads beneath battery even in lab |
| 00:59.07 | Estel_ | and npads beneath battery are *not* connected directly to chip |
| 00:59.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | so odds are your ESD surge reaches chip literally before it even propagates to tranzorbs |
| 00:59.32 | Estel_ | won't have link now, so take it with grain of salt, but I'm perfectly sure, that DocScrutinizer was stating somewhere on TMO that they're connected directly to chip, which is false |
| 00:59.46 | robbiethe1st | Check the schematics? |
| 00:59.57 | Estel_ | + actual implementation |
| 01:00.14 | robbiethe1st | Anyone got a trace layout for the N900? |
| 01:00.24 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer should have some of those |
| 01:00.33 | robbiethe1st | Especially as there was a chineese company selling bare boards a while back? |
| 01:00.36 | Estel_ | including hi res pictures of motherboard including and not elements |
| 01:00.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | look at my server, robbiethe1st. there you get best approach to layout |
| 01:00.54 | robbiethe1st | Link, please? |
| 01:00.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | scan of such bare board |
| 01:01.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | maemo.cloud-7.de |
| 01:01.08 | Estel_ | still, from practice, it *works* as it should, and I';ve *0* reports of any problems, ecven while devices are used in far from "controlled" enviromnent |
| 01:01.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | galery, or N900-exploded-view or sth |
| 01:01.44 | robbiethe1st | That may be the most important thing; in reality, things work slightly different than in theory... for better or worse |
| 01:02.05 | Estel_ | would like to discuss with DocScrutinizer about those tranzorbs and why it conflicts with blue_led research - discuss, nto argue, as it's very interesting topic... |
| 01:02.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | but you don't need to check, as I've already done that. There IS NO ESD protection on testpoints |
| 01:02.15 | Estel_ | but of course he si childlish and /ignore me, so no way to... ;) |
| 01:02.18 | Pali | maemo autobuilder is shit |
| 01:02.36 | Estel_ | Pali, btw, have I missed it, our You havent commented on widespreading kernel-power via banners and such things? |
| 01:02.58 | Estel_ | Pali, rest assured, we will have COBS soon - which is better, but probably, going to bring even more problems during first period of time ;P |
| 01:03.06 | robbiethe1st | Ok, guys... easy to solve the problem. Take a doner/broken N900, throw some esd surges down those two pins. |
| 01:03.10 | robbiethe1st | Either it breaks or not. |
| 01:03.13 | Pali | something which scratchbox compile and install into debian/tmp/usr/lib autobuilder it install into debian/tmp/lib... |
| 01:03.14 | robbiethe1st | Ought to be testable |
| 01:03.26 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, yea, try with Your N900 that ahve modem destroyed :P |
| 01:03.39 | Estel_ | s/ahve/have/ |
| 01:03.41 | robbiethe1st | Nah, I'm not the one arguing either way |
| 01:03.47 | Pali | Estel_, I do not think that banner help |
| 01:03.53 | robbiethe1st | Plus, that's the one that /works/ now |
| 01:03.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | robbiethe1st: wtf?? do you think absence of ESD protection can be verified by breaking stuff? |
| 01:04.04 | robbiethe1st | Yes? |
| 01:04.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | no |
| 01:04.07 | Estel_ | Pali, understood |
| 01:04.27 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, absence of ESd protection can be verified only by asking DocScrutinizer ;) |
| 01:04.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | dang, you wouldn't even be able to tell for sure what defects any surge might trigger in chip |
| 01:04.42 | Estel_ | same apply for things like "does earth roll" and so goes on. |
| 01:04.59 | robbiethe1st | Well, if it still works right, USB transfers still work... |
| 01:05.27 | robbiethe1st | But, to be honest, I'd say the best solution is to take a "broken" n900, use those pins, and run it for a while. |
| 01:05.32 | Estel_ | very nature of ESD damage is that it's hard to predict it |
| 01:05.41 | Estel_ | I must admit that it may work for years, then break on one fatal moment |
| 01:05.45 | robbiethe1st | If it stops working USB wise, it's likely a problem. If not, consider it "safe enough". |
| 01:05.49 | Estel_ | but, fortunately, I haven't encountered it |
| 01:05.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | of course there are always idiots with a WFM approach, like "I rubbed a ballon against wool and touched the device with it. No smoke detected. So it has to be safe" |
| 01:06.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | but that's not how real life electronics work |
| 01:06.38 | robbiethe1st | I'll say there's also a "safe enough" point - there's always a chance of anything happen at any time. |
| 01:06.46 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, I admit that i'm not E enginer, so You're probably better to listen to his advices - even though he talks them like asshat in very irritating manner |
| 01:06.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | it might survive 5 surges and break on 6th |
| 01:06.49 | robbiethe1st | Like, say, a cosmic ray breaking the same thing. |
| 01:07.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | it might stop computing 1 + 1 as 2 |
| 01:07.17 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, I tend to share Your point of view here, with some additional doze of being careful |
| 01:07.36 | Estel_ | that why I've started doing it *only* after it was confirmed, that data on testpADS beneath battery actually lacks only common choke |
| 01:07.37 | robbiethe1st | My point of view here is, be somewhat careful and keep recent backups |
| 01:07.45 | robbiethe1st | and a second N900 handy |
| 01:08.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | it might (very likely) fry any chip internal clamp diodes to the point where USB2 doesn't work anymore |
| 01:08.02 | Estel_ | after all, working N900 with less reliable ESd is better than non-working one |
| 01:08.29 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, if You want, hoever, point of view of another E enginer, ask blue_led |
| 01:08.44 | Estel_ | he was the one that bashed DocScrutinizer's FUD (or not to FUD? who knows...) |
| 01:09.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | but noooooo mr estel knows better and accuses an EE telling FUD about his primary competence domain |
| 01:09.14 | robbiethe1st | Also... http://wiki.maemo.org/images/a/aa/Testpoints_tx.jpg Says to me that running N900 off of external PS instead of battery is possible |
| 01:09.38 | robbiethe1st | Also, you two? I don't F***ing give two shits about your petty fights. |
| 01:10.03 | robbiethe1st | I want to know specific facts about specific situations, including anecdotal evidence. |
| 01:10.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | GeneralAntilles: I again request you instruct Estel_to refrain from insulting me |
| 01:10.43 | robbiethe1st | Ooh, that looks good; battery test-pads are on the same side as the USB port. Makes things loads easier. |
| 01:10.44 | Estel_ | and I request You to stop requesting ;) I'm trying to help robbiethe1st with his problem |
| 01:11.22 | Estel_ | and I've already told him that YOU ( DocScrutinizer ) are EE, so it's better to listen to Your advices, cause i'm not E engineer. Still, telling him to *check* sources for himself isn't insulting. |
| 01:11.29 | Estel_ | so stop this childlish madness. |
| 01:11.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | robbiethe1st: sorry guy, I don't even see estel_ (/ignore) so how the FUCK can I fight with him. Please don't push the flamewar and shit going on here |
| 01:12.14 | robbiethe1st | That, right there, says that you're immature. /ignoring someone just makes things worse for 3rd parties |
| 01:12.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | uhuh |
| 01:12.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | F U |
| 01:12.35 | robbiethe1st | Because it means /I/ get two halves of 3 conversations. |
| 01:13.02 | Pali | who except maintainers can promote package from extras-devel to extras-testing? |
| 01:13.09 | Estel_ | Pali, X-Fade |
| 01:13.15 | Pali | I'd like to see locate in Extras |
| 01:13.17 | Estel_ | Council is working to change it. |
| 01:13.37 | Pali | I'm on pending list of maintainers |
| 01:13.51 | Estel_ | original maintainer doesn't respond? |
| 01:14.45 | Pali | seems yes |
| 01:15.01 | Pali | titan |
| 01:15.05 | Estel_ | ouh |
| 01:15.10 | Pali | http://maemo.org/packages/view/locate/ |
| 01:15.16 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB267D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:15.31 | Pali | I did not tried contact him |
| 01:15.42 | Estel_ | frtuitless effort |
| 01:15.43 | robbiethe1st | Pali, how do we get bootmenu 1.12 into Extras? |
| 01:16.25 | Estel_ | Pali, I'll talk with X-Fade today, @ 15 UTC, if he will be attending COBS meeting |
| 01:16.32 | Pali | robbiethe1st, bootmenu is in extras-testing |
| 01:16.45 | Pali | needs voting for promotion |
| 01:16.49 | Estel_ | will add this as ad-hoc point to grant You maintainership, but, generally, we're working on generating group of people with privilleges to promote packages |
| 01:16.51 | Estel_ | well tested ones |
| 01:16.53 | robbiethe1st | How do I vote? |
| 01:16.55 | Estel_ | but unmaintained |
| 01:17.12 | Estel_ | yea, Pali voted 3x times :p |
| 01:17.21 | robbiethe1st | I want to get all the recent, stable dependancies for BM into Extras, so mine can get there someday |
| 01:17.24 | Pali | here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/bootmenu/1.12/ |
| 01:18.19 | Pali | Estel_, there are more packages which should go to extras |
| 01:18.28 | Estel_ | of course |
| 01:18.33 | Pali | I do not remember full list |
| 01:18.48 | Estel_ | no worries, general diea is to create super-testers group |
| 01:18.53 | Estel_ | that would be able to promote packages |
| 01:19.10 | robbiethe1st | Ok, BootMenu is now at 6 karma |
| 01:19.11 | Pali | but if somebody on IRC will have permission for that, it would be nice |
| 01:19.12 | Estel_ | for example having enough votes, but stuck in queye due to absent maintainer |
| 01:19.14 | robbiethe1st | What happens now? |
| 01:19.43 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.73.227.76) |
| 01:20.07 | Pali | wait until maemo package interface show me promote button |
| 01:20.11 | robbiethe1st | Also, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mtd-utils/20090606-1maemo1/ need votes for this |
| 01:20.32 | Pali | QA Quarantine ends: 2012-06-12 20:45 |
| 01:20.45 | robbiethe1st | You can still vote for it, me thinks |
| 01:20.51 | robbiethe1st | Same with http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/i2c-tools/3.0.2-1maemo3/ |
| 01:20.58 | Pali | so we need wait one week for bootmenu :-( |
| 01:21.17 | robbiethe1st | fair enough |
| 01:21.21 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, better post links for voting in backupmenu's TMO thread |
| 01:21.39 | Estel_ | as on IRc, You won't find many people for voting. |
| 01:21.44 | Estel_ | that have tested packages |
| 01:22.04 | robbiethe1st | Do you have BM installed and working? Then you've tested it |
| 01:22.12 | Pali | I'm using mtd-utils and i2c-tools and booth working :-) |
| 01:24.28 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, working and all options tested - yes |
| 01:24.34 | Estel_ | so i've voted |
| 01:24.53 | Estel_ | still, posting links in 3 AM on irc won't get You to have full akrma for msot packages |
| 01:24.57 | Estel_ | so post it in TMO thread ;) |
| 01:25.07 | Estel_ | lately, people are much more educated about importance of voting |
| 01:25.17 | Estel_ | so if You put it in backupmenu thread as request to tets and vote, they will do. |
| 01:25.29 | Pali | robbiethe1st, two notes about backupmenu: 1. delete or fix bugtracker link 2. remove vim swap file /usr/share/backupmenu/.functions.sh.swp |
| 01:25.39 | robbiethe1st | Latter is I think gone |
| 01:25.45 | robbiethe1st | was in the one build |
| 01:27.22 | robbiethe1st | Completely off topic question: Anyone who has a N950 or (likely) N9, do you know the default alarm clock melody? |
| 01:27.36 | robbiethe1st | On my N950, it also vibrates in tune with the audio |
| 01:27.48 | robbiethe1st | Do you know if we could do something similar on the N900? |
| 01:31.34 | robbiethe1st | Docs, Estel_ Looking at the N900 schematics |
| 01:31.45 | robbiethe1st | there's the "HS USB Transceiver |
| 01:31.51 | robbiethe1st | "d480" |
| 01:31.59 | robbiethe1st | *"D4280" |
| 01:32.05 | robbiethe1st | What chip is this, what model? |
| 01:32.20 | SpeedEvil | It's a nxp USB transiever |
| 01:32.24 | SpeedEvil | I've forgotten the model |
| 01:32.51 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic |
| 01:33.33 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB |
| 01:33.46 | SpeedEvil | goes back to sleep |
| 01:34.40 | Estel_ | heh, was going to post these links too :P |
| 01:34.44 | robbiethe1st | So, looks like both DocScrutinizer and Estel_ may be right |
| 01:34.56 | Estel_ | :P |
| 01:35.05 | robbiethe1st | The N900's ESD protection diodes are on the other side of a choke coil from the test points |
| 01:35.16 | Estel_ | nods |
| 01:35.25 | Estel_ | but... |
| 01:35.35 | Estel_ | is rising courtain |
| 01:35.42 | robbiethe1st | ...However, if this "similar" USB chip is any indication, it also has ESD protection built in |
| 01:35.50 | Estel_ | tadam! |
| 01:35.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: g'nite |
| 01:36.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | robbiethe1st: well, I hate that "toldya" |
| 01:36.16 | Estel_ | ...which would explain why it's working nevertheless |
| 01:36.44 | Estel_ | ...and that DocScrutinizer likes more to provide crippled info, than to just admit I may be right ;) |
| 01:36.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | and no, the USB PHY's ESD is insufficient |
| 01:36.57 | robbiethe1st | Which should protect it well enough to mitigate part of the surge, the rest of which will be clamped via the protection chip through the coil |
| 01:37.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | wut? hahaha |
| 01:37.19 | robbiethe1st | How can you say that? (the similar chip)'s rated for +-8.8KV |
| 01:37.39 | robbiethe1st | On the pins we care about |
| 01:39.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | there's a reason for the bifilar choke and the tranzorbs/varistors straight at USB receptacle |
| 01:39.42 | Estel_ | watches, as tension goes higher and higher, like in good thriller |
| 01:39.44 | robbiethe1st | Oh, I'm sure. Likely to comply with some regulation and or provide extra protection |
| 01:39.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | first of all the choke doesn't let pass any steep ESD surge |
| 01:39.54 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st - like with common mode choke:P |
| 01:40.03 | Estel_ | it's also there only to comply with fc-something |
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| 01:40.27 | Estel_ | for same fck'ed reason we haven't been having hostmode form very beginning - they wasn't able to comply with standards on due time |
| 01:40.52 | robbiethe1st | Oh, speaking of which, have we been able to control/check the ID pin yet? |
| 01:40.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | and now I'm out again, as even you seem to love the friggin popcorn cinema estel is inscenating here on my expense, more than a reasonable discussion based on facts |
| 01:41.17 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, yes, we cna read it, but no use for now, due to no way of detecting speed |
| 01:41.20 | Estel_ | but Pali is working on it |
| 01:41.32 | Estel_ | as opposite to some guys that only talk that it's impossible ;) |
| 01:41.57 | SpeedEvil | The commonmode choke means that it has high impedence to commonmode signals - this means that the protection diodes are effectively not connected to the circuit for the first few microseconds. |
| 01:42.07 | SpeedEvil | This is plenty of time for damage to occur |
| 01:42.07 | Estel_ | chillout DocScrutinizer, you sounds like thinking too much about Yourself. |
| 01:42.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | and since I'm not going to change that /ignore, I'm sorry you get 7 quarters of 33 discussins due to that |
| 01:42.29 | SpeedEvil | really goes to sleep. |
| 01:42.33 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, true |
| 01:42.34 | robbiethe1st | Well, couldn't we setup a simple system that, when that pin is pulled high or w/e, pops up a dialog on the desktop and allows the user to select the speed |
| 01:42.51 | robbiethe1st | SpeedEvil, would expect the 8.8KV built in diodes to handle that part of it. |
| 01:44.19 | Estel_ | wonders why DocScrutinizer told us that it's popcorn cinema... no, this childlish behavior is *real* drama! or even DRAMA |
| 01:44.21 | robbiethe1st | Either way, I'd expect it'll probably work fine under /most/ conditions... To improve performance, the best thing would be to short out the common mode coul |
| 01:44.39 | Estel_ | robbiethe1st, using testpads, You're not passing common mode |
| 01:44.44 | Estel_ | so don't need to care about it |
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| 01:45.02 | xd13 | anyone here can give me a lil help with n900 |
| 01:45.12 | robbiethe1st | No, but that would allow the external ESD protection chip to help out in countering any surges |
| 01:45.16 | xd13 | I have backupmenu installed modified my /etc/passwd file |
| 01:45.19 | Estel_ | sure thing, just ask, and don't get upsed if we ask you to readmsome manuals, if Your question was covered |
| 01:45.23 | robbiethe1st | Yes, xd? |
| 01:45.31 | xd13 | phone won't start |
| 01:45.37 | xd13 | i know how to fix the file |
| 01:45.41 | robbiethe1st | Period, or in BM mode? |
| 01:45.44 | xd13 | can i use backupmenu to access it |
| 01:45.51 | xd13 | bm works |
| 01:45.56 | robbiethe1st | Do you have power kernel installed? |
| 01:45.59 | xd13 | i do |
| 01:46.08 | robbiethe1st | Then yes. |
| 01:46.22 | robbiethe1st | Run BM, try to run root console |
| 01:46.39 | robbiethe1st | Once there, if you can login, you've got a terminal and you can fix it |
| 01:46.42 | xd13 | oh sweet jesus |
| 01:46.44 | xd13 | :) |
| 01:46.53 | robbiethe1st | You'll need to mount the rootfs partition(mountroot command) |
| 01:47.00 | robbiethe1st | then just edit it |
| 01:48.12 | Estel_ | wait, wait |
| 01:48.14 | xd13 | wuts root password |
| 01:48.28 | Estel_ | what does /etc/passwd have to do with non-booting phone |
| 01:48.37 | xd13 | changed user info |
| 01:48.44 | Estel_ | I see. |
| 01:48.53 | robbiethe1st | have you used ssh? |
| 01:48.55 | xd13 | tried to make bash4 default |
| 01:48.57 | robbiethe1st | sshd anyway |
| 01:49.04 | Estel_ | as for root, erm, it's the one You've set up? |
| 01:49.05 | xd13 | can i use it as a hard drive |
| 01:49.13 | xd13 | and see the file |
| 01:49.14 | xd13 | ? |
| 01:49.18 | robbiethe1st | No. |
| 01:49.20 | Estel_ | no, not rootfs |
| 01:49.20 | robbiethe1st | Not the rootfs |
| 01:49.23 | Estel_ | :) |
| 01:49.32 | Estel_ | and *don't* make bash as default shell |
| 01:49.41 | Estel_ | You gain more by installing busybox-power |
| 01:49.46 | Estel_ | and You can still use bash when needed |
| 01:49.49 | Estel_ | from userland |
| 01:49.52 | robbiethe1st | You can, however, make a backup of your rootfs to the mydocs, then mount the mydocs via USB, copy off the tar file, extract your passwd |
| 01:49.58 | Estel_ | replacing busybox with bash is incredibly wrong idea |
| 01:50.06 | xd13 | haha |
| 01:50.07 | robbiethe1st | change the passwd, stick it back into the tar, then stick that back on n900 and restore the image |
| 01:50.19 | xd13 | wuts the login info when i use root console |
| 01:50.21 | xd13 | ? |
| 01:50.25 | Estel_ | xd13, BTw, robbiethe1st is author of backupmenu |
| 01:50.31 | Estel_ | login: root |
| 01:50.35 | xd13 | ya |
| 01:50.39 | xd13 | password |
| 01:50.40 | xd13 | ? |
| 01:50.42 | Estel_ | passwrd: <the one You've set> |
| 01:50.48 | xd13 | i never set one |
| 01:50.53 | Estel_ | how i'msupposed to know Your root password? |
| 01:50.57 | robbiethe1st | In which case you're screwed |
| 01:50.59 | Estel_ | have You installed openssh? |
| 01:51.00 | robbiethe1st | For that method |
| 01:51.06 | xd13 | i have installed openssh |
| 01:51.14 | Estel_ | so, it asked You to create password upon installation |
| 01:51.15 | robbiethe1st | Then that root password is the one |
| 01:51.30 | robbiethe1st | be back soon; dinner time. |
| 01:51.33 | xd13 | hmm |
| 01:51.38 | xd13 | I never created a pass |
| 01:51.44 | xd13 | that's weird |
| 01:52.39 | Estel_ | You wouldn't be able to end openssh installation |
| 01:52.43 | xd13 | I have a recent backup, better to just restore em |
| 01:52.47 | Estel_ | unless you installked client only |
| 01:52.50 | Estel_ | yes. |
| 01:52.52 | Estel_ | or |
| 01:52.55 | Estel_ | as robbiethe1st said |
| 01:53.02 | Estel_ | make backup, untar it on pc |
| 01:53.08 | Estel_ | change /etc/passwd |
| 01:53.10 | Estel_ | and tar it again |
| 01:53.12 | Estel_ | then restore |
| 01:53.13 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 01:53.24 | Estel_ | if backupmenu saved Your ass, consider donating few bucks to robbiethe1st |
| 01:53.28 | Estel_ | he is author of backupmenu |
| 01:54.01 | xd13 | question is |
| 01:54.03 | Estel_ | I'm going off-line for a while, will solder sd card slot to my router :D |
| 01:54.07 | Estel_ | ? |
| 01:54.13 | xd13 | if this works how do i set a root passwd |
| 01:54.29 | Estel_ | same way as in any linux distro, see manuals for it on net :) |
| 01:57.00 | Pali | Estel_, all packages (except that nokia non free) for ipv6 are in extras-devel |
| 01:58.38 | xd13 | woohoo my ass is saved :) |
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| 02:00.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | xd13: root:HxfFl.UXLGGDA:0:0:root:/root:/bin/sh |
| 02:01.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | is a line for /etc/passwd |
| 02:01.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | with plaintext password n900 |
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| 02:02.37 | xd13 | i only installed ssh client |
| 02:02.41 | xd13 | i'm back anyway |
| 02:02.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | replace your original line for "root:" with this one |
| 02:02.44 | xd13 | backupmenu saved my ass |
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| 02:05.34 | xd13 | replace the line in /etc/password with the one u gave me |
| 02:05.37 | xd13 | ? |
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| 02:34.32 | robbiethe1st | Back |
| 02:34.43 | luke-jr | wb |
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| 02:46.09 | robbiethe1st | Shell question |
| 02:46.43 | robbiethe1st | I've got a command: "gtar -options alkfahfhwf 2> /path" |
| 02:46.59 | robbiethe1st | Can I pipe stdout to another program like: |
| 02:47.19 | robbiethe1st | "gtar -options alkfahfhwf 2> /path | split -b 100m"? |
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| 03:33.07 | robbiethe1st | Anyone around? |
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| 04:17.59 | Hurrian | robbiethe1st, here |
| 04:18.56 | Hurrian | no, it doesn't work. |
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| 04:22.11 | robbiethe1st | ? |
| 04:39.02 | Hurrian | the pipe command. |
| 05:00.29 | robbiethe1st | turns out it does work |
| 05:00.39 | robbiethe1st | The pipe anyway |
| 05:00.59 | robbiethe1st | split won't accept stdin with stock busybox, though |
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| 05:38.33 | Estel_ | yea, sd mod finished |
| 05:38.43 | Estel_ | took few solid hours, as I had to modify existing instructions... |
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| 05:39.21 | Estel_ | I wanted to retain possibility of having serial console and serial port, so didn't wanted to use easily-available pads + I want, for sure, add USB 1.1 ports later |
| 05:39.38 | Estel_ | so I had to probe it with multimeter, finding other spots with correct connections |
| 05:40.25 | Estel_ | + didn't wanted to solder SD card for "forever", or to solder microSD adapter, as I would like to use cheaper full size Sd cards = I dissasembled cheap USB sd card reader and prepared solid slot for SD |
| 05:40.29 | Estel_ | modified case, etc |
| 05:41.06 | Estel_ | overall, it's ncie to boot acces point with 2GB storage :D (card that I had lying somewhere, could use any number), for... IDK, 5 usd? |
| 05:41.55 | Estel_ | head to install openwrt, optware, and some IRC proxy, so he and rest of Council doesn't need to rely on unreliable people revoking promises at first signs of personal dissagrements |
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| 07:15.28 | Hurrian | Estel_, what kind of SD mod is that? |
| 07:15.44 | Elleo | what's likely to cause the application manager to complain that a deb is an "incompatible application package", for a deb that otherwise installs fine via dpkg with no warnings |
| 07:16.35 | Hurrian | might be just HAM being stupid. |
| 07:16.39 | Elleo | ah, is it perhaps because it's a library? |
| 07:16.45 | Hurrian | do you have and conflicts/replces etc? |
| 07:16.45 | Elleo | instead of a user facing application |
| 07:17.02 | Hurrian | Elleo, iirc it doesn't distinguish between the two |
| 07:17.20 | Elleo | nope, no conflicts or replaces |
| 07:17.40 | Hurrian | meh, just HAM being crap as always. carry on, I guess. |
| 07:17.41 | Elleo | maybe because I didn't add an X-Maemo-Application-Name field? |
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| 07:20.41 | Elleo | nope, apparently not that |
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| 08:16.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | ok, ordered 3 new ones |
| 08:16.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-) |
| 08:17.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | one is not for me though |
| 08:19.53 | Sc0rpius | three what? |
| 08:24.47 | merlin1991 | Elleo/Hurrian ham says incompatible package if the package is not in one of the few defined user/something sections |
| 08:25.01 | Elleo | merlin1991: ah |
| 08:25.02 | Elleo | thanks |
| 08:25.32 | merlin1991 | valid sections are here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Sections |
| 08:25.51 | Elleo | great, that's a big help |
| 08:27.10 | chem|st | moo |
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| 08:27.29 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: right... |
| 08:28.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: thanks again for letting me know :-) |
| 08:28.11 | Elleo | merlin1991: awesome, that's sorted my problem, thanks again :) |
| 08:28.21 | merlin1991 | yw :) |
| 08:28.26 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: yw |
| 08:28.34 | chem|st | thought about myself |
| 08:28.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | Sc0rpius: N900 |
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| 08:28.59 | Sc0rpius | nice. |
| 08:29.25 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: have you called in and asked if they are OVP unboxed? |
| 08:29.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | no, just added it as condition comment to order |
| 08:30.05 | chem|st | uh might be backscattering |
| 08:30.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | hm? |
| 08:30.33 | chem|st | didn#t you read the links I sent you? |
| 08:30.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | no |
| 08:30.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | which links |
| 08:31.14 | chem|st | one was 50:50 good and bad about shipping packaging and so on |
| 08:31.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm |
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| 08:31.48 | chem|st | that link |
| 08:32.03 | chem|st | thats why I asked you to call in ahead |
| 08:34.03 | Sc0rpius | well enough coding for tonight |
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| 08:46.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, shipping etc is no such big deal, as long as the devices are no fake, or used ones somebody refurbished (or not) |
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| 08:50.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | there's been another shop which sold used refurbished devices as if they were new |
| 08:51.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | I think I should call in anyway, as they wait for my payment, so I get to know if they can deliver what I ordered before transfering the money |
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| 09:00.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: only 2 left over, no original package but allegedly unused new device, only battery and PSU, no other accessories |
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| 09:15.49 | teotwaki | god fucking damn |
| 09:15.58 | teotwaki | I find what I believe to be the best keyboard in the world |
| 09:16.09 | teotwaki | and it doesn't work under linux :( |
| 09:17.56 | Hurrian | teotwaki, how could it not work under linux, if it adheres to the HID spec |
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| 09:18.45 | chem|st | teotwaki: which? |
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| 09:20.20 | chem|st | I was thinking about buying a rapoo |
| 09:20.52 | teotwaki | zowie celeritas |
| 09:21.05 | teotwaki | it works, but apparently there's bug in udev |
| 09:21.30 | teotwaki | which means that when I hit dead keys (ctrl, shift, alt), there's no "SYN" signal sent, which forces Linux to consider the key was released instantly |
| 09:22.00 | teotwaki | https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/24505 |
| 09:22.48 | teotwaki | chem|st: ^ |
| 09:24.38 | chem|st | hehe |
| 09:24.40 | Khertan | teotwaki: epic fail :) |
| 09:24.44 | chem|st | a zowie.... |
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| 09:25.07 | Khertan | Does there is a webdav client for n900 ? |
| 09:26.15 | teotwaki | Khertan: Comment appelle-t-on un cheval qui se casse la gueule? |
| 09:26.43 | Khertan | teotwaki: aucune idée |
| 09:26.51 | teotwaki | Khertan: Un hippique fail |
| 09:27.02 | Khertan | roh |
| 09:27.04 | Khertan | :) |
| 09:27.26 | Khertan | teotwaki: forcement j'aurais du me douter |
| 09:28.51 | Khertan | Someone have try to use qt quick component on harmattan ? is it useable ? as my first try fail on InfoBanner and maxlinecount unavaible in the n900 qt version of qt quick |
| 09:33.54 | chem|st | teotwaki: you never had a cherry kbd? |
| 09:34.57 | teotwaki | I had one sometime ago, got stolen |
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| 09:42.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | teotwaki: modifier keys, not dead keys |
| 09:42.24 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer: right, sorry |
| 09:42.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | deadkey is, like, ` |
| 09:45.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | teotwaki: I just corrected you as there's an obviously unrelated "no-deadkeys" kbd-layout in linux |
| 09:46.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ on n900 is a classical deadkey |
| 09:46.44 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer51 |
| 09:46.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | damn |
| 09:46.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | MEEE! :-/ |
| 09:47.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~forget on n900 |
| 09:47.07 | infobot | i forgot on n900, DocScrutinizer51 |
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| 10:41.28 | vi_ | Narwhal |
| 10:41.29 | vi_ | + |
| 10:41.32 | vi_ | Pony |
| 10:41.33 | vi_ | == |
| 10:41.38 | vi_ | Unicorn |
| 10:45.03 | jaska | amphibious unicorn |
| 10:45.14 | vi_ | nae |
| 10:45.18 | vi_ | wetlook unicorn. |
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| 12:06.58 | teotwaki | \o/ |
| 12:07.10 | teotwaki | Mechanical keyboard ftw! Now workz under Linux :D |
| 12:07.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | hm? |
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| 12:08.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | you attached a rmeington typewriter to your PC? |
| 12:08.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | remington |
| 12:11.29 | Gh0sty | lol |
| 12:13.23 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer: cherry mx brown key switches |
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| 15:50.13 | disco_stu | Hi everybody |
| 15:50.44 | disco_stu | someone know what will happen with meego ? i'm considering the buy of a nokia n9 |
| 15:51.25 | disco_stu | but I'am wondering.. some say this will be the only phone with harmattan |
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| 15:56.57 | chem|st | disco_stu: officialy there will be no further maemo/meego phone |
| 15:58.08 | chem|st | as they just started to resurrect Qt and such, noone knows |
| 15:59.35 | disco_stu | chem|st: i've seen the phone and it is awesome, but I dont know if I should buy it. shame on nokia |
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| 16:13.06 | freemangordon | WTF? Facebook DNS resolves to IPv6 address |
| 16:13.18 | freemangordon | MohammadAG, ping |
| 16:16.43 | jacekowski | freemangordon: yeah, what's wrong with that |
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| 16:16.59 | jacekowski | it's the future |
| 16:17.27 | freemangordon | jacekowski: "Failed to connect to 2a03:2880:10:1f03:face:b00c:0:26: Network is unreachable". That is why facebook widget/photo uploader fails |
| 16:17.52 | jacekowski | well, your computer shouldn't try ipv6 unless you have working ipv6 |
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| 16:18.07 | freemangordon | my computer? no, it is my n900 |
| 16:18.17 | jacekowski | well, then your n900 |
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| 16:18.55 | jacekowski | what's in your /etc/gai.conf |
| 16:19.23 | freemangordon | cat: can't open '/etc/gai.conf': No such file or directory |
| 16:21.01 | freemangordon | jacekowski: Have in mind that FB DNS returns ONLY IPv6 address, i checked it with tcpdump |
| 16:21.35 | jacekowski | that's because you only ask for ipv6 |
| 16:21.46 | jacekowski | you have to ask for A record not for AAAA |
| 16:22.01 | freemangordon | jacekowski, it is AAAA |
| 16:22.08 | freemangordon | want a pastebin? |
| 16:22.14 | jacekowski | root@jacekowski:/etc# host -t A facebook.com |
| 16:22.15 | jacekowski | facebook.com has address 69.171.229.11 |
| 16:22.23 | jacekowski | root@jacekowski:/etc# host -t AAAA facebook.com |
| 16:22.24 | jacekowski | facebook.com has IPv6 address 2a03:2880:2110:3f01:face:b00c:: |
| 16:22.42 | freemangordon | but why maemo asks for that? |
| 16:22.55 | jacekowski | do you have powerkernel? |
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| 16:22.59 | freemangordon | yep |
| 16:23.06 | Estel_ | because they knew Pali will implement IPv6 in KP :) |
| 16:23.10 | jacekowski | well, here is your answer |
| 16:23.25 | jacekowski | use normal ipv4 only kernel |
| 16:23.36 | Estel_ | jacekowski, doesn't sound like solution |
| 16:23.43 | freemangordon | ORLY? why the AFAIK those with stock kernel cannot use FB widget/uploader? |
| 16:23.52 | Estel_ | "don't want ,Your car to crash, use bicycle" |
| 16:24.05 | jacekowski | well, you would need working ipv6 userland |
| 16:24.13 | freemangordon | jacekowski, it tries to resolve api.facebook.com |
| 16:24.30 | jacekowski | root@jacekowski:/etc# host api.facebook.com |
| 16:24.30 | jacekowski | api.facebook.com has address 69.171.228.75 |
| 16:24.30 | jacekowski | api.facebook.com has address 69.171.234.22 |
| 16:24.30 | jacekowski | api.facebook.com has IPv6 address 2a03:2880:10:8f01:face:b00c:0:26 |
| 16:24.30 | Estel_ | all normal programs use ipv4 until connected to ipv6 |
| 16:24.32 | freemangordon | while www.facebook.com opens pretty well in browaser |
| 16:24.54 | jacekowski | Estel_: not really |
| 16:24.59 | jacekowski | Estel_: wget preffers ipv6 |
| 16:25.06 | Estel_ | mine doesn't ;) |
| 16:25.08 | jacekowski | Estel_: and it depends on settings in gai.conf |
| 16:25.18 | Estel_ | no problem in using it with KP here |
| 16:25.24 | *** join/#maemo mzanetti (~mzanetti@server1.muehlhaeuser.de) |
| 16:25.28 | Estel_ | and I have't messed with gai.conf |
| 16:25.31 | Woody14619 | freemangordon: Tmobil = ipv4, TW = ipv6. Wonder if thats why the old system still works for me? Just a though. |
| 16:25.36 | freemangordon | jacekowski, there is no gai.conf here |
| 16:25.50 | freemangordon | Woody14619, yeah, seems like |
| 16:26.13 | jacekowski | freemangordon: that's because n900 userland isn't ipv6 ready |
| 16:26.13 | Estel_ | I have good idea, lets remove facebook alltogether from N900, then pray it's corpse using Monks of Stallman, and burn it in vulcano |
| 16:26.24 | Estel_ | never enough careful when dealing with toxic blobs |
| 16:27.23 | freemangordon | jacekowski: the problem as I see it, is that someone for some reason asks for IPv6 address. And that someone is eithr libcurl or some closed nokia binary |
| 16:27.43 | Estel_ | libcurl got updated lately in devel, many times |
| 16:27.49 | Estel_ | new version every few days |
| 16:28.06 | Estel_ | some unknown guy posting it - works fine, at least considering "normal" usage |
| 16:28.09 | Estel_ | may be related? |
| 16:28.30 | jacekowski | freemangordon: it's configured with gai.conf |
| 16:28.31 | freemangordon | Estel_, NFC, but I don't think I am using the latest libcurl |
| 16:28.39 | jacekowski | freemangordon: it you don't have gai.conf it will use some defaults |
| 16:28.56 | jacekowski | so create one with preference set to v4 |
| 16:29.09 | freemangordon | jacekowski, ok. going to try |
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| 16:38.25 | freemangordon | jacekowski: adding "precedence ::ffff:0:0/96 100" to /etc/gai.conf does not help |
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| 16:40.48 | cbeau | i am looking for help re mschapv2 authentication in maemo 5 on n900 |
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| 16:42.37 | cbeau | can anyone help me w mschapv2 on n900? |
| 16:42.57 | Estel_ | no idea what it is |
| 16:43.31 | cbeau | i see javispedro just quit a few minutes ago... did he say when he'd be back? |
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| 16:54.17 | cbeau | wondering if any of libqt-bearer-hotfix or libqt-mobility fix the mschapv2 problem... anyone? |
| 16:57.01 | Pali | Estel_, another bug for X-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12581 |
| 16:57.02 | povbot_ | 04Bug 12581: Not possible to browse history of Developer forum |
| 16:58.52 | Pali | Estel_, and do you have some new info about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12415 ? |
| 16:58.53 | povbot_ | 04Bug 12415: Missing source code of osso-backup |
| 17:00.10 | Pali | jacekowski, hi, did you find something about nolo? |
| 17:02.16 | Estel_ | Pali, as for osso-backup, not yet |
| 17:02.28 | Pali | ok |
| 17:02.32 | Estel_ | will buggy qgil again |
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| 17:12.50 | freemangordon | Estel_, what is your libcurl version? |
| 17:13.35 | Estel_ | 7-25-0.1maemo7 |
| 17:13.49 | freemangordon | and you cannot use FB too? |
| 17:14.44 | freemangordon | Estel_ ^^^ |
| 17:15.01 | Estel_ | no idea, don't have fb account, never tried it |
| 17:15.09 | freemangordon | aaah, damn |
| 17:15.15 | Estel_ | wasn't ever aware about fb plugin on N900 ;) |
| 17:15.22 | Estel_ | until You started RE it |
| 17:15.27 | freemangordon | :D |
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| 17:47.58 | Estel_ | Yea! |
| 17:48.07 | Estel_ | Finally, set up dircproxy on my wrt54GL :) |
| 17:48.51 | Estel_ | ]I did sd car dmod properly, although, it doesn't work with 2.6 kernel - it could, if i would spend another few days in debugging what gpio are use dby 2.6 and FOSS RE of broadcom drivers, and were not in 2.4... |
| 17:49.13 | Estel_ | But, after all, OpenWRT, even with kernel 2.6, allow to install dirc and still have plenty of room - almsot 500 kb :) left in jffs2 |
| 17:49.25 | Estel_ | finally could use that dircproxy is 60 kb, lol |
| 17:49.45 | Estel_ | = full fledged proxy bounder on own 12V 300 mA router :D |
| 17:55.01 | ThreeM | the legendary wrt54gl :D |
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| 18:02.52 | luke-jr | Estel_: my WZR has 19 MB free :P |
| 18:03.15 | Estel_ | but it cost triple as much, or more :p |
| 18:03.37 | Estel_ | Now I just need to find how to activate this sd card and will have 2GB free :P |
| 18:04.08 | Estel_ | seems like weifi drivers is occupying gpio for diodes, and don't want to gtfo from them |
| 18:04.35 | Estel_ | card is recognized probperly, but diodes flash as usual, which would explain why card doesn't work - jammed by diode's signals |
| 18:05.13 | luke-jr | oooooooo |
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| 18:14.13 | chem|st | jacekowski: I do not have ipv6 kernel and have the FB widget/upload problem |
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| 18:16.16 | chem|st | cbeau: what problem are you talking about? |
| 18:17.23 | freemangordon | chem|st, yeah, I was trying to explain the same think :D. But as usual - "aah, you have KP installed, there it is" :( |
| 18:18.25 | chem|st | grml |
| 18:19.13 | chem|st | and estel talking to himself about whatever... |
| 18:20.13 | Estel_ | chem|st, if that was meant to be another argumentum ad persona, it was poor, You're capable of doing better ;) |
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| 18:34.22 | cbeau | chem|st it's related to mschapv2 not working on n900 |
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| 18:36.16 | cbeau | has anyone ever been able to use mschapv2 successfully? |
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| 18:37.10 | cbeau | It does not work for me and I think the issue is that the n900 doesn't communicate that it is using mschapv2 when it initiates the connection. |
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| 18:37.43 | cbeau | you can check out my comment to bug 11743 at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11743 |
| 18:37.45 | povbot_ | 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11743 Access Wifi network using PEAP+EAP MSCHAPv2 authentication |
| 18:37.46 | povbot_ | 04Bug 11743: Access Wifi network using PEAP+EAP MSCHAPv2 authentication |
| 18:38.16 | cbeau | povbot_: yeah, i know about this bug... I just posted a comment there |
| 18:38.16 | povbot_ | cbeau: Error: "yeah," is not a valid command. |
| 18:39.33 | cbeau | anyone knows what software package on the n900 is responsible for communicating the inner tunnel type? |
| 18:42.08 | vi_ | cbeau: ICD maybe? |
| 18:42.08 | Jay_W | hi there. is it possible to get a all list of all currently running apps that have a gui (like the code here http://pastebin.com/ukVB7H74 , unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a wnck-module for maemo) |
| 18:42.11 | vi_ | I dunno |
| 18:42.17 | vi_ | If not where is the written statement from Nokia stating that? |
| 18:42.17 | vi_ | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...il/005031.html |
| 18:42.17 | vi_ | Quote & Reply | |
| 18:42.27 | vi_ | oops, wrong xterm. |
| 18:42.35 | cbeau | is it libicd-network-wlan or libicd-network-eap or osso-wlan(-security) or something...? |
| 18:43.03 | cbeau | vi_: I wish there was a way to know for sure. |
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| 19:18.14 | Jay_W | is there a wnck python module for maemo? |
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| 19:34.30 | chem|st | cbeau: it does not autoconnect if you mean that... EAP TTLS MSCHAPv2 works... |
| 19:34.59 | chem|st | it is peap then? |
| 19:37.51 | fasta | What's the latest Linux kernel supported? |
| 19:38.10 | fasta | I think the default one comes with free remote expoits. |
| 19:38.44 | cbeau | chem|ist: it is peap mschapv2 that I am trying and it doesn't work. As per my post for bug #11743, the issues appears to be that n900 does not communicate that it is using mschapv2 as inner tunnel. |
| 19:38.45 | povbot_ | 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11743 Access Wifi network using PEAP+EAP MSCHAPv2 authentication |
| 19:39.37 | cbeau | chem|ist: so not ttls |
| 19:40.55 | freemangordon | jacekowski: You may want to check FB issue development on #maemo-ssu |
| 19:41.13 | Sc0rpius | does CSSU has a FB client or something? |
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| 19:47.08 | Jay_W | how can one get a all list of all currently running apps that have a gui (like the code here http://pastebin.com/ukVB7H74) |
| 19:50.19 | chem|st | Sc0rpius: you do not need a client... you need the sharing plugin and the widget-api |
| 19:51.24 | chem|st | Sc0rpius: there is sociality... needs some polishing but is working |
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| 19:55.22 | luf | chem|st what version of libcurl3 do you have? |
| 19:56.20 | chem|st | 7.18-2-8maemo6+0m5 |
| 19:56.57 | luf | Please try to update using extras-devel. |
| 19:57.08 | luf | It helps freemangordon with FB problem. |
| 19:57.23 | chem|st | luf: should I join u guys in cssu? |
| 19:58.28 | luf | I see no reason why you can't (if you mean irc). Otherwise I'm not member of cssu yet ;) |
| 19:58.55 | chem|st | luf: what you mean with helping freeman with? |
| 19:59.09 | luf | chem|st: Try to update just libcurl from extras-devel. Not cssu itself ;-) |
| 19:59.30 | luf | chem|st: Let's look the #mameo-ssu log |
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| 20:00.32 | chem|st | luf: please talk a bit more what you are trying to achieve |
| 20:00.59 | chem|st | updating... |
| 20:01.06 | luf | chem|st: freemangordon updated libcurl3 to the one from extras-testing and FB works for himnow. |
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| 20:01.36 | chem|st | ehrm why do I need to install from devel then? |
| 20:01.54 | chem|st | freemangordon: extras-devel or extras-testing? |
| 20:02.03 | luf | Sorry my mistake :) But it's the same version in both. |
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| 20:02.18 | luf | chem|st: let's try extras-testing. |
| 20:02.21 | chem|st | I am on testing always... |
| 20:02.38 | chem|st | gmrl update takes freaking long |
| 20:02.48 | freemangordon | chem|st, sorry, stupid XP rebooted out of the blue |
| 20:02.54 | chem|st | lol |
| 20:03.23 | luf | I'll check again but there should be 7.25.0-1maemo7 in testing as well as in devel. |
| 20:03.28 | freemangordon | chem|st, i've installed libcurl from extras-devel, but as luf said, it should be the same in extras-testing |
| 20:03.51 | freemangordon | both photo uploader and widget work |
| 20:04.16 | freemangordon | sharing account setup works too |
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| 20:05.14 | chem|st | apt-worker is blocking me, hold on |
| 20:05.35 | freemangordon | do apt-get install libcurl3 |
| 20:05.49 | chem|st | "apt-worker is blocking me, hold on" |
| 20:06.02 | freemangordon | something wrong with packaging maybe, i had the same problem |
| 20:06.37 | freemangordon | chem|st, i did apt-get install libcurl3 and it went fine |
| 20:06.40 | chem|st | no if I setup a new repo it updates for ages... |
| 20:06.48 | chem|st | upgraded |
| 20:07.03 | freemangordon | maybe it depends on stuff only in -devel |
| 20:07.06 | freemangordon | NFC |
| 20:07.13 | chem|st | testing upload |
| 20:08.20 | chem|st | it loads |
| 20:08.33 | freemangordon | loads? iploads? |
| 20:08.36 | freemangordon | *uploads? |
| 20:09.01 | chem|st | nice |
| 20:09.11 | chem|st | yes upload works |
| 20:09.26 | chem|st | was it that ipv6 crap? |
| 20:09.41 | luf | freemangordon: ok, it seems you're right. Just change in curl. |
| 20:10.19 | luf | No idea. |
| 20:10.20 | freemangordon | chem|st, it is that ipv6 crap triggering some bug in stock libcurl |
| 20:10.30 | freemangordon | ^^^ |
| 20:10.42 | chem|st | lol |
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| 20:11.15 | chem|st | ok nice one, whoever found out post it on tmo! you deserve the thanks! |
| 20:11.17 | luf | chem|st: it's possible that new libcurl should have some side effect. |
| 20:11.31 | chem|st | luf: what kind |
| 20:11.37 | luf | I see noone. |
| 20:11.46 | freemangordon | chem|st:I already made the post ;) |
| 20:11.47 | chem|st | ok I check all my upload clients |
| 20:11.53 | luf | chem|st: but it's new version ... |
| 20:12.16 | chem|st | hehe |
| 20:12.37 | luf | chem|st: ;) |
| 20:13.21 | freemangordon | luf: that is why CSSU have several repos: -devel -testing -stable |
| 20:14.26 | freemangordon | aah, the poor guinea pig :P |
| 20:14.27 | luf | freemangordon: I know but it seems it's not wide tested ... |
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| 20:14.48 | freemangordon | luf, that is why the first repo it will enter will be -devel |
| 20:15.06 | freemangordon | after a couple of weeks if there are no regressions it will enter -testing |
| 20:15.19 | luf | freemangordon: It's for one month in -testing ... |
| 20:15.27 | freemangordon | in a month or so, if still there are no regressions it will enter -stable |
| 20:15.38 | freemangordon | luf: CSSU-testing |
| 20:15.48 | freemangordon | nad CSSU-devel |
| 20:15.50 | freemangordon | *and |
| 20:16.38 | luf | freemangordon: it should be same with extras-* |
| 20:16.38 | freemangordon | luf: you'd better think in terms of repos starting with cssu- if you gonna be a part of the CSSU team :P |
| 20:16.50 | freemangordon | lu: no, it is differen |
| 20:16.50 | luf | freemangordon: :D |
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| 20:29.13 | GeneralAntilles | I love that qgil still has that silly fake eyeballs avatar. |
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| 21:15.03 | cbeau | anyone in who knows anything about PEAP-mschapv2 on n900? |
| 21:16.19 | cbeau | I'd totally try cssu if it had a patch for PEAP-mschapv2 |
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| 21:47.18 | Sc0rpius | that's for PPTP? |
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| 22:01.14 | vi__ | just watched prometheus. |
| 22:01.24 | vi__ | wtf was that all about? |
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| 22:02.18 | freemangordon | merlin1991, feedservice-plugin-fb-common FOSS replacement works like a charm. Please discuss with mag how to deal with API key/secret key. My opinion is that we should publish that as it is (i.e. cleartext secrets), after all the accounts are password protected |
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| 22:44.12 | szopin | hi council member |
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| 22:48.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 22:50.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | nm |
| 22:50.02 | szopin | wxWidgets: did anyone have a situation of not responsive touchscreen when using those? |
| 22:51.16 | szopin | or in a different approach: wxWidgets <- did anybody use those effectively??? |
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| 23:17.55 | Estel_ | szopin, hi |
| 23:18.06 | Estel_ | what the hell is wxWidgets? |
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