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| 00:11.28 | Sc0rpius | I wonder how am I supposed to zoom in Nemo with an N900 if it's not multitouch :) |
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| 01:03.28 | luke-jr | Estel_: shrug, I'd rather miss some freqs in headphone, than my N900 speakers be destroyed |
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| 05:44.26 | Sicelo | Scorcerer: \m/ |
| 05:44.30 | Sicelo | meh, |
| 05:44.46 | Sicelo | tab- fail, i meant Sc0rpius |
| 05:45.19 | Sicelo | one thing Sc0rpius, how is power usage/management? |
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| 09:50.21 | X-Fade | Maemo Council election results: http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=20 |
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| 09:52.02 | teotwaki | thanks X-Fade |
| 09:52.13 | teotwaki | how many times has SD69 been on the council now/ |
| 09:52.15 | teotwaki | ? |
| 09:52.38 | chem|st | Estel_: grats |
| 09:52.58 | teotwaki | Estel_: aye, congrats |
| 09:53.50 | chem|st | teotwaki: with his attituted I am wondering why |
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| 10:02.18 | Jaffa | X-Fade: thanks |
| 10:02.27 | Jaffa | teotwaki: This is his third term. |
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| 10:02.54 | Jaffa | He talks a lot. Does nothing. And bemoans the fact he's expected to do other things |
| 10:03.15 | teotwaki | Jaffa: so I was correct in assuming he was indeed the one I saw you and GA talk about on twitter some weeks ago? |
| 10:03.28 | Jaffa | teotwaki: Yup |
| 10:05.32 | Sicelo | wow! |
| 10:06.06 | Jaffa | teotwaki: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1207445&postcount=355 is quite fun |
| 10:06.26 | Jaffa | teotwaki: Despite being the only active member on the previous council, he refused to accept he was the chair. |
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| 10:14.00 | Jaffa | Estel_: congratulations |
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| 10:38.39 | chem|st | Estel_: please do not hesitate to moan about council members doing nothing, the other way round is welcome too (moan about what they do^^) |
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| 11:25.34 | Estel_ | X-Fade, thanks for announcing election results |
| 11:25.53 | Estel_ | chem|st, teotwaki, Jaffa, thank You all |
| 11:26.21 | Estel_ | I would like to personally thank every participant - mostly, the Community voting, then candidates running and finally, elected Councilors |
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| 11:26.29 | Estel_ | hi freemangordon |
| 11:26.39 | freemangordon | Estel_, hi, congrats |
| 11:27.02 | Estel_ | Jaffa, despite Your view on SD69 - which you're fully entitled to have - he got 2nd results in voting, so it seems that whole Community doesn't share your view. |
| 11:27.06 | Estel_ | Thanks a lot, freemangordon |
| 11:27.19 | Estel_ | You just missed my personal thanks to You ;) (and everyone voting in election) |
| 11:27.30 | Estel_ | s/and/as/ |
| 11:27.48 | freemangordon | damn stupid sppedfan her, my PC was in boot loop :) |
| 11:27.56 | freemangordon | *speedfan |
| 11:27.56 | Estel_ | :) |
| 11:28.42 | freemangordon | maybe it is time to get rid of that windoze finally |
| 11:28.43 | Estel_ | anyway, election results are here, so we can start work on full throotle |
| 11:28.59 | Estel_ | freemangordon, same thoughts here ;) |
| 11:29.22 | teotwaki | Estel_: get a speelcheek, the red penis you're friend. |
| 11:30.01 | Estel_ | teotwaki, wtf? i'mafraid I don't get You fully ;) |
| 11:30.13 | teotwaki | Estel_: get a spellchecker, the red pen is your friend. |
| 11:30.28 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 11:30.48 | teotwaki | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_rwB5_3PQc |
| 11:30.50 | teotwaki | Estel_: ^ |
| 11:30.51 | Estel_ | speelcheek - hoever it looks and jaw - sounds better than red penis. It think it concludes this part of discussion ;) |
| 11:33.46 | Estel_ | DocS, ping |
| 11:33.55 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping |
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| 11:48.12 | Estel_ | teotwaki, quite good watching |
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| 11:49.20 | Estel_ | Woody14619, ping |
| 11:49.37 | chem|st | has someone the maemo development story handy? |
| 11:49.59 | Estel_ | ? |
| 11:49.59 | chem|st | that guy talking about how it all happened |
| 11:56.28 | StyXman | chem|st: history*? |
| 11:57.34 | chem|st | development story of hildon and how it became maemo as the symbian guys were not fast enough with dropping code to them |
| 11:58.19 | chem|st | there was a communicator device mentioned which got it without any consumers knowing that it isn't symbian |
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| 12:04.49 | chem|st | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/21/nokia_hildon_the_great_lost_platform/ |
| 12:05.08 | chem|st | wasn't communicator, was series 90... |
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| 12:21.26 | script_ | is it just me or is the maemo facebook sharing plugin broken since a few days? |
| 12:27.36 | cr-ver | hello - can someone tell me how to do with a n900 that never can boot? |
| 12:28.09 | *** part/#maemo DavidTalmage_ (~quassel@www.onespeeddave.com) |
| 12:28.40 | cr-ver | i found a maemo wiki for cold-flashing it but it doesnt help |
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| 12:35.13 | Estel_ | which part of cold flashing isn't working for You? |
| 12:35.19 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping |
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| 12:36.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | don't coldflash unless you KNOW it's needed |
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| 12:40.43 | MohammadAG | /home/mohammad/QtSDK/Madde/toolchains/arm-2009q3-67-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/arm-2009q3-67/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.4.1/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: marker.o: relocation R_ARM_MOVW_ABS_NC against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC <-- the fuck |
| 12:42.12 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, why ignoring pings? ;) |
| 12:42.28 | Estel_ | afraid of script porn? don't worry, I got something different |
| 12:42.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | work |
| 12:42.36 | Estel_ | understood |
| 12:42.59 | Estel_ | would mind 30 second question not related to scripts or system? |
| 12:43.00 | cr-ver | DocScrutinizer51: its neccessary - i cannot damage it because it cannot boot anymore - i see only a dark screen with the nokia emblem |
| 12:43.12 | Estel_ | try hot flashing |
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| 12:43.59 | cr-ver | Estel_: i've tried to get a temporary nolo to flash all and hope it works - but no changes in the state |
| 12:44.38 | Estel_ | but why You haven't tried normal flashing first? |
| 12:45.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | noki* emblem == do NOTcoldflash |
| 12:45.13 | cr-ver | Estel_: i tried but the flasher cannot find the device - in coldflash it does after a few minutes |
| 12:45.52 | Estel_ | in such case, it should flash successfuly. After cold flash, have You tried vanilla emmc flashing, as per "updating the firmware" on wiki page? |
| 12:46.00 | Estel_ | with corr3ect order, removing battery etc |
| 12:46.05 | Estel_ | then flashing FIASCO |
| 12:46.32 | Estel_ | BTw DocScrutinizer is right, device showing logo isn't candidate for cold flash or at least shouldn't be |
| 12:46.48 | cr-ver | yes i tried the preferred way from wiki and it doesnt work because the device is not found |
| 12:47.01 | Estel_ | if cold flash doesn't help you, I'm afraid you might be screwed |
| 12:47.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | BS |
| 12:47.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | fix your PC issues |
| 12:48.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~flash |
| 12:48.11 | infobot | hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 12:49.14 | cr-ver | i cant understand whats up with the n900 yesterday it runs nice and after a shutdown it cannot boot |
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| 13:43.25 | cr-ver | accepted: my n900 is dead |
| 13:43.49 | cr-ver | thanks for your tips |
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| 14:03.46 | Estel_ | Woody14619, ping |
| 14:06.29 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping |
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| 14:33.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | que? |
| 14:33.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: |
| 14:34.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | aaah I see, a supposedly dead cheap to buy N900 |
| 14:34.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-P |
| 14:35.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: lrn2suggest syslog |
| 14:37.04 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, what? |
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| 14:42.33 | chem|st | anyone an idea why sharing-plugin-facebook stopped working? |
| 14:43.46 | spark666 | chem|st: doesnt work here to |
| 14:44.07 | chem|st | spark666: tested on 2 devices allready |
| 14:44.11 | chem|st | spark666: but thanks |
| 14:49.15 | chem|st | sharing-service-facebook is nokia... andre__ is there anything we can do about that? |
| 14:49.32 | andre__ | that it is Nokia? :) |
| 14:49.41 | andre__ | I don't think so |
| 14:50.04 | andre__ | but yeah, seems to be an issue. also reported in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12621 |
| 14:50.06 | povbot | 04Bug 12621: The Facebook widget does not work |
| 14:51.50 | andre__ | and I guess Flickr sharing will also break in two months when they completely switch to OAuth |
| 14:51.56 | andre__ | just my guess though |
| 14:52.18 | chem|st | andre__: they switch auth ? |
| 14:52.28 | spark666 | the only option its that someone make a new option for sharing like peterovich was |
| 14:52.50 | spark666 | for bluetooth in pr1.2 |
| 14:53.15 | chem|st | someone resamnble a sharingplugin yeah |
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| 14:55.11 | andre__ | chem|st, http://code.flickr.com/blog/2012/01/13/farewell-flickrauth/ |
| 15:04.00 | chem|st | andre__: got nokia care in chat now, as the n900 is still sold as new and there were commercials with the facebook app they are required to fullfill this in europe |
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| 15:25.50 | ShadowJK | i didn't know n900 was still sold anywhere |
| 15:28.00 | chem|st | well nokia does not sell it anymore and I guess with removing n900 device website they are save regarding any sueing |
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| 15:51.27 | Estel_ | gm, strange |
| 15:51.49 | Estel_ | something is eating my idle power. I see that device without any connection, idle, is using ~50 mA, instead of usual 7-9 |
| 15:52.10 | Estel_ | what is more strange, after rebootr, for few hours, idle usage is normal |
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| 15:52.31 | Estel_ | and then, without using any application (device left overnight) it start to be minimum of 50 mA |
| 15:52.42 | Estel_ | ho ever, while-in-use pwoer usage is normal |
| 15:52.44 | Estel_ | WTF? |
| 15:53.12 | Estel_ | any good way to check it? I suspect something is keeping MPU of out sleep state, but how to check what? TOP doesn't show anything unusual |
| 15:54.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | ho ever? |
| 15:55.08 | Estel_ | hoever I would be glad if You could stop ignoring private IRc messages from me ;) |
| 15:55.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | poowertop |
| 15:55.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | with a sample time of 30 minutes |
| 15:56.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | eh? |
| 15:56.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh |
| 15:56.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | afk |
| 15:57.50 | Estel_ | exactly, and it shpows that CPU doesn't sleep as it should |
| 15:57.51 | Estel_ | in idle |
| 15:57.58 | Estel_ | but, how to check what is causing it? |
| 15:58.05 | Woody14619 | Estel_, pong |
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| 16:44.02 | ioan | hi. how well does android work on n900? |
| 16:44.30 | spark666 | ioan: are you from ro?:P |
| 16:44.37 | ioan | yes |
| 16:44.41 | spark666 | me 2 :D |
| 16:45.03 | ioan | well, I'm in US right now, dar sunt roman ;-) |
| 16:45.26 | spark666 | bine de tine ca ai scapat de ro :P |
| 16:45.42 | spark666 | lets talk in eng enyway before they kick us off :)) |
| 16:46.32 | spark666 | and related to your question,android works quite well afaik,only that few features are missing |
| 16:46.48 | ioan | like what? what features are missing? |
| 16:47.43 | spark666 | i think phone feature... |
| 16:47.48 | spark666 | for phone calls |
| 16:47.52 | ioan | I got an android phone for my wife last night, and I'm quite impressed with it... |
| 16:47.53 | ioan | haha |
| 16:48.18 | spark666 | yes i owned one to in the past,a htc desire,they are nice |
| 16:48.29 | ioan | so the phone will become an n850 with android :-) |
| 16:48.44 | spark666 | guess so..but maybe im wrong |
| 16:49.47 | spark666 | and the camera function i guess it doesnt work either :( |
| 16:49.53 | ioan | gps? |
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| 16:50.44 | spark666 | take a look here >> http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?board=6.0 |
| 16:51.03 | spark666 | i think you can find some of your answers there |
| 16:51.15 | ioan | ok, thanks |
| 16:51.24 | spark666 | yw :) |
| 16:52.57 | spark666 | catch you guys later im going to take dinner :) |
| 16:53.23 | ioan | pofta mare! |
| 16:53.37 | spark666 | hehe,mersi :D |
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| 16:56.10 | ioan | see ya all later |
| 16:56.12 | *** part/#maemo ioan (ioan@unaffiliated/ioan) |
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| 16:58.39 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping?... |
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| 17:05.12 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping-pong-ping-pung? |
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| 17:13.52 | Estel_ | X-Fade, ping |
| 17:14.11 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping-pang-pung-pong-peng? |
| 17:14.52 | Estel_ | bombards DocScrutinizer with tons of ping-pong balls |
| 17:15.02 | Estel_ | ~ping DocScrutinizer |
| 17:15.02 | infobot | pong DocScrutinizer |
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| 17:27.17 | Estel_ | X-Fade, ping |
| 17:28.38 | Estel_ | anyone know qgil's nick on IRC? |
| 17:30.33 | spark666 | lol:P |
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| 17:36.44 | hiemanshu | Estel_: IIRC its quimgil or qgil |
| 17:36.58 | Estel_ | thanks a lot |
| 17:37.03 | Estel_ | none seems to be present :( |
| 17:37.25 | hiemanshu | just ask him over twitter? |
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| 17:42.36 | Estel_ | I don't user twitter, honestly |
| 17:42.59 | Estel_ | but thanks for suggestion |
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| 18:04.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~seen qgil |
| 18:04.33 | infobot | qgil <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 18m ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. |
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| 18:05.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: pong |
| 18:07.20 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, see private IRC message |
| 18:07.25 | Estel_ | (query) |
| 18:07.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | sorry there is none |
| 18:07.59 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer51: irc spam filters? :D |
| 18:08.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | nick |
| 18:09.39 | Estel_ | hm |
| 18:10.06 | Estel_ | and now? |
| 18:10.16 | Estel_ | for some reasons, /query DocScrutinizer doesn't workj for You, and work with everyone else |
| 18:10.36 | Estel_ | I've tried again, any response? |
| 18:10.37 | merlin1991 | Estel_: notice the 51 on his nick? ;) |
| 18:10.45 | Estel_ | oh |
| 18:10.46 | merlin1991 | so I'd suggest you /query DocScrutinizer51 |
| 18:10.48 | Estel_ | sorry, my fault |
| 18:10.51 | Estel_ | of course |
| 18:10.58 | Estel_ | yea, i'm dumbie. Thanks a lot |
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| 18:12.17 | Estel_ | hm, doesn't seem to work either or hes away |
| 18:12.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | battery empty, sorry |
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| 18:18.48 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer51, maybe now? |
| 18:19.43 | Estel_ | ~seen quimgil |
| 18:19.47 | infobot | quimgil <c0647829@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.41> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 433d 19h 15m 48s ago, saying: 'lbt: now go to sleep only to find out next morning in Engadget that 'a new "fremantle" device3 is in the plans' etc etc ;)'. |
| 18:22.29 | FIQ | a while ago |
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| 18:24.51 | Estel_ | yea... |
| 18:24.55 | Estel_ | Jaffa, ping |
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| 18:35.35 | MohammadAG | Estel_, he uses the nick qgil now |
| 18:35.47 | Estel_ | MohammadAG, I know, but |
| 18:35.52 | Estel_ | ~seen qgil |
| 18:35.56 | infobot | qgil <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 49m 23s ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. |
| 18:36.03 | Estel_ | just a while ago ;) |
| 18:36.06 | MohammadAG | ~seen qgil_ |
| 18:36.06 | infobot | qgil_ <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 279d 21h 54m 34s ago, saying: 'still, if the news are confirmed the real news will be what HP does next'. |
| 18:36.15 | MohammadAG | ~seen QGil |
| 18:36.15 | infobot | qgil <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 49m 42s ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. |
| 18:36.16 | Estel_ | anyway, he tried to use webchat.freenode.net, so it's pointless, I'll catch him via mail |
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| 18:42.42 | Woody14619 | I used webchat just a couple weeks ago and it worked fine. :) |
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| 18:50.35 | MohammadAG | ~seen javispedro |
| 18:50.39 | infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 3h 32m 12s ago, saying: 'that'd make for interesting performance counters'. |
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| 19:13.43 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, DocScrutinizer51, ping |
| 19:14.07 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer112, ping |
| 19:18.40 | Sicelo | Sc0rpius: what's new on Nemo? |
| 19:18.55 | Sicelo | Estel_: congrats on election. :) |
| 19:19.08 | Sicelo | did you finally figure out what your power hog is? |
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| 19:25.43 | Estel_ | Sicelo, thanks a lot :) |
| 19:25.48 | Estel_ | still not |
| 19:26.02 | Estel_ | will need to ask someone more accustomed to powertop (vi?) |
| 19:26.28 | Sicelo | paste it ... there's others who understand it tooo :P |
| 19:28.19 | Estel_ | I understand it, just don't know wtf hogs it. But I'll surely hear Your opinion about it |
| 19:28.29 | Estel_ | if You know wtf, I'll be very thankful |
| 19:28.53 | Estel_ | gimme minute, will do fresh test, need to close connections |
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| 19:38.35 | Estel_ | Sicelo, or anyone who would like help with tracking down the bugger: |
| 19:38.37 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?442cb300fdfd5acb#/bTbfxspbV/9ZBYjXxp48/AEsGUSvhhW5qYOMi6Npn0= |
| 19:38.45 | Estel_ | C1 state all the time... |
| 19:39.00 | Estel_ | may syslogd be the bugger? |
| 19:39.42 | Sicelo | O.o |
| 19:39.52 | Sicelo | why is xbindkeys so busy? |
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| 19:44.56 | Estel_ | Sicelo, no idea? |
| 19:45.01 | Estel_ | I'm using it for ages |
| 19:45.05 | Estel_ | never been problem |
| 19:45.11 | Estel_ | it's easy debian's xbindkeys |
| 19:45.18 | Estel_ | why it got mad lately, ffs |
| 19:46.05 | Sicelo | looks to me like that's where your problem is |
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| 19:49.24 | Sicelo | i guess i'll soon lose telephony functions on my N900 :\ |
| 19:51.14 | Sicelo | when i change from 3G to 2G and vice versa, i find that i end up with no signal at all, and power usage goes high. a reboot fixes things |
| 19:53.33 | Estel_ | hm |
| 19:53.41 | Estel_ | try solution with hammer |
| 19:53.51 | Estel_ | or sell it and buy N900's from me as per tmo:P |
| 19:54.07 | Estel_ | I sell them so cheap, that You'll probably profit in ,process |
| 19:54.39 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, via powertop logs, do You have idea wtf is that? is it xbindkeys fault and why it went mad sudden pf nothing? |
| 19:54.45 | Estel_ | I never had problems with it |
| 19:55.27 | Sicelo | Estel_: i'm too far, lol. Africa |
| 19:55.51 | Estel_ | I send everywshere except, probably, noth korea :P |
| 19:56.13 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: >>Collecting data for 30 seconds<< forget it |
| 19:56.19 | Estel_ | ? |
| 19:56.25 | DocScrutinizer | 30 minutes, nit 30s |
| 19:56.33 | Estel_ | ok, no problem |
| 19:56.44 | Estel_ | but even for 30 sec xbindkeys should sleep |
| 19:56.45 | Sicelo | see who owns PID 2025 |
| 19:56.49 | merlin1991 | wait estel, sellin n900s on tmo |
| 19:56.54 | merlin1991 | linkedylinklink |
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| 19:57.11 | Estel_ | merlin1991, sure thing wait a second |
| 19:57.12 | Estel_ | erm |
| 19:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | n88n8n8 |
| 19:57.20 | Sicelo | :P |
| 19:57.28 | Estel_ | Sicelo, could You give him link, I'm on 10 kbps connection again |
| 19:57.40 | Estel_ | and tmo will load for ages |
| 19:57.42 | Estel_ | centuries |
| 19:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | WUT? |
| 19:58.50 | DocScrutinizer | N900 for sale? |
| 19:58.53 | Estel_ | pid 2025? cant find it, how should IZ check it properly? |
| 19:59.02 | Estel_ | not only N900 |
| 19:59.02 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer I called dibs! |
| 19:59.03 | Sicelo | merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84174 |
| 19:59.20 | Estel_ | N900's in ideal condition with reinforced usb port |
| 19:59.24 | Estel_ | english keyboard |
| 19:59.27 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.33 | Estel_ | for 180 euros |
| 19:59.36 | Estel_ | ah I see |
| 20:00.09 | Estel_ | I had problems with selling them for 2 weeks, but now they're gone. Although, I may come with more if someone is decided |
| 20:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | WTF PK |
| 20:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | forgetit |
| 20:00.31 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, any idea why xbindkeys got apeshi? |
| 20:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | flash proper kernel |
| 20:01.09 | DocScrutinizer | Frequency | Ratio |
| 20:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:01.16 | Estel_ | bullshit |
| 20:01.20 | Estel_ | I'm on 900 mhz |
| 20:01.27 | merlin1991 | damn, sold out |
| 20:01.27 | Estel_ | powertop fakes it |
| 20:01.32 | merlin1991 | and I had my hopes up |
| 20:01.35 | Estel_ | merlin1991, not entirely |
| 20:01.43 | Sicelo | yeah, PK always shows 1150MHz there |
| 20:01.43 | Estel_ | I can arrange another one for You |
| 20:02.22 | Estel_ | Ialready got one person on waiting list :P |
| 20:02.44 | DocScrutinizer | that's one of the points why I consider PK non-compatible and introducing regressions |
| 20:02.59 | Estel_ | merlin1991, it will be on same price or similar one (no more than 200 euro + shipping) |
| 20:03.07 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, what is regression here? |
| 20:03.37 | Estel_ | I don't care what powertop shows about frequency, I'm interested in what's eating my battery |
| 20:03.49 | DocScrutinizer | obviously powertop's inability to cope with PK's messed up cpufreq listing |
| 20:04.19 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: then fix powertop |
| 20:04.30 | Estel_ | I see, but C* states are important for us |
| 20:04.35 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: it is not on powertop to cope with PK's fsckedup lisings! |
| 20:04.42 | Estel_ | it should sleep on C4not C1 |
| 20:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: all my notion |
| 20:05.05 | chem|st | :) |
| 20:05.15 | Estel_ | well, maybe stock kernel used fckd listing |
| 20:05.24 | Estel_ | and maemo powertop got adjusted to that |
| 20:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | PK *is* *not* compatible |
| 20:05.36 | Estel_ | now kp got fixed listing and powertop is not compatible |
| 20:05.46 | chem|st | Estel_: it is std powertop from debian guess who fsckedup... |
| 20:05.49 | Sicelo | hmm :\ |
| 20:05.59 | Estel_ | seriously, I have in ass what powertop thing about frequency |
| 20:06.05 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: it's not |
| 20:06.11 | Estel_ | chem|st, why sure it wasn't adjusted? |
| 20:06.17 | chem|st | the first one was the bare arm build |
| 20:06.41 | Estel_ | if it's kp fault, lets contact freemangordon. F it's powertop fault, lets fix it. |
| 20:06.51 | Estel_ | no need for whinning about compatibility |
| 20:07.01 | freemangordon | powertop is closed source AFAIK |
| 20:07.02 | DocScrutinizer | but thnd PK has to conformat doesn't change the basic rule that maemo kernel is simply always "right" a |
| 20:07.08 | DocScrutinizer | that* |
| 20:07.18 | DocScrutinizer | wtf |
| 20:07.21 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, cant agree |
| 20:07.51 | Estel_ | meritocratic approach doesn't allow us to say that stock is right on doing things wrong |
| 20:07.56 | Sicelo | leaves to reboot his N900 .. this modem thing makes me sick |
| 20:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | but that doesn't change the principle that maemo kernel is ruling and PK has to follow (this time without touchpad messing up stuff) |
| 20:08.13 | chem|st | Sicelo: modem turning off? |
| 20:08.16 | Estel_ | seriously, I think otherwise |
| 20:08.41 | Estel_ | at least when it comes to things that can be fixed |
| 20:08.51 | chem|st | Sicelo: most of the time ->flightmode->normal fixes it for me |
| 20:08.54 | Estel_ | i.e. no one say it's ok to change things and makew bme go apeshit |
| 20:08.58 | Estel_ | but powertop? |
| 20:09.07 | Estel_ | if it's foss, it can be fixed |
| 20:09.10 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: if maemo kernel had a MMOONNSSTTEERR bug and 15 apps rely on it, I give a stinking warm fart about PK fixing that bug |
| 20:09.29 | Estel_ | if it's closed, it's its problem as its not essential like bme |
| 20:09.30 | Sicelo | chem|st: when i change modes (3G/2G), i end up with no signal at all, and high battery consumption. Offline/Online doesn't help me. i have a (bad) feeling that i'll soon lose telephony completely |
| 20:09.30 | Estel_ | hm |
| 20:09.38 | Estel_ | it depends |
| 20:09.46 | DocScrutinizer | no, it doesn't |
| 20:09.50 | Estel_ | if those 15 aps are foss and rely on monster bug |
| 20:09.52 | *** join/#maemo SpeedyGhost (~moon3010@kvirc/translator/SpeedyGhost) |
| 20:10.01 | Estel_ | then it's time to fix both bug and 15 apps |
| 20:10.15 | Estel_ | if they're closed source and essential (see bme) then it's valid |
| 20:10.20 | DocScrutinizer | find a way to emulate the MONSTER bug in PK for those apps that need it, or you're wrong |
| 20:10.22 | chem|st | Sicelo: ouch |
| 20:10.36 | *** join/#maemo ariomx (~ircchatte@132.247.245.162) |
| 20:10.37 | Sicelo | a reboot fixes things |
| 20:10.39 | Estel_ | if they're closed and esential - yes, true |
| 20:10.54 | Estel_ | if open or closed and non esential, well... |
| 20:11.03 | chem|st | Sicelo: stay on 2g? :) |
| 20:11.07 | Estel_ | non essential - I mean, lets say, blessN900 |
| 20:11.23 | Estel_ | closed source extras |
| 20:11.57 | Estel_ | thats why I think we need upstream CSSU with community kernel bundled in and -testing -devel variants |
| 20:11.57 | Sicelo | yeah chem|st :P .. only problem is that sometimes 2G stops working here (peak hours) .. that's when i switch to 3G |
| 20:12.26 | Estel_ | we don't want chaos when programs are written to follow bugs in distribution A |
| 20:12.32 | Estel_ | and doesnt work in B and C |
| 20:12.41 | Estel_ | especially, that we have low dev resources |
| 20:12.47 | Estel_ | and especially kp devs |
| 20:13.29 | Estel_ | now I'll be asshat - I would use a minute of freemangordon's or Pali time to do 2 kernels, for "stock" fans (onlhy bugfixes) and proper kernel-power |
| 20:13.40 | *** join/#maemo Facefox (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:13.51 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 20:14.01 | Estel_ | if someone is so conservative and want stock, he/she can prepare kp-lite rollouts |
| 20:14.04 | Estel_ | and manage it |
| 20:14.15 | Estel_ | s/manage/maintain/ |
| 20:14.35 | DocScrutinizer | nobody, I repeat NOBODY is allowed to "fix" something in a way that creates more trouble than good. And nobody has the right to order app devels to rework their lib/whatever API, just because you think the lib need an better incompatible API. It's *YOU* who's doing mist evil then, not the original bug you intend to fix |
| 20:14.38 | Estel_ | but never demand kp/CSSU devs to do so |
| 20:14.42 | DocScrutinizer | most* |
| 20:14.55 | Estel_ | nobody is allowed to order anything anyone |
| 20:15.01 | *** join/#maemo ezn-01 (~ezn-01@99-59-1-249.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:15.01 | Estel_ | but sometimes, people just want to |
| 20:15.23 | Estel_ | people want to re-work their programs to use KP or CSSU new possibilities |
| 20:15.36 | Estel_ | it's all about volounteering |
| 20:15.46 | Estel_ | kp is done by volounteers |
| 20:15.50 | Estel_ | cssu too. |
| 20:16.04 | Estel_ | if someone doesn't like feature in KP or CSSU - nice, it's FOSS |
| 20:16.26 | Estel_ | volounteer time and make a version that suit You, maybe You'll get followers |
| 20:16.32 | Estel_ | or not. |
| 20:16.37 | DocScrutinizer | no, it's all about competence and inspiration to find a way for better alternatives to allow old stuff to co-exist |
| 20:16.49 | Estel_ | when feasible, sure thing |
| 20:17.03 | Estel_ | but we need to use our scarce resources in feasible way |
| 20:17.04 | DocScrutinizer | when not, you're the one who's screwed |
| 20:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | not I and my app that needs that old API |
| 20:17.17 | Estel_ | well, if we have 2 kernel devs |
| 20:17.31 | Estel_ | I preffer them doing what they preffer, i.e. properly working things |
| 20:17.33 | DocScrutinizer | that's nonsense |
| 20:17.45 | Estel_ | not rolling out version with old bugs to make it compatible with fckd api |
| 20:18.06 | Estel_ | or emulation of bug |
| 20:18.23 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, I won't let anybody hijack maemo |
| 20:18.28 | Estel_ | asshat argument here - after all, there is always stock :P |
| 20:18.39 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, do you know why powertop spits bullshit when run under KP? |
| 20:18.46 | Estel_ | people choose via their repos downloads |
| 20:18.49 | Estel_ | no hijacking. |
| 20:18.54 | DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: guess! |
| 20:19.00 | freemangordon | I can bet it is hardcoded for up to 600 MHz |
| 20:19.08 | Estel_ | :) |
| 20:19.28 | Estel_ | it splits up 1150 mhz no matter what |
| 20:19.37 | DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: what does this tell us? there's not supposed to be anything >600MHz |
| 20:19.37 | *** join/#maemo willer_ (wimoreir@nat/indt/x-bmyjzkhjhkprlzqt) |
| 20:19.53 | freemangordon | so the proper "BUGFIX" will be to limit PK frequency to 600. And THAT is nonsense |
| 20:19.59 | Estel_ | anyway, if someone will make awesome project and call it omeam, everyone or majority will use it |
| 20:20.07 | Estel_ | and program accordingly |
| 20:20.13 | Estel_ | is it hijack? no, free choice |
| 20:20.14 | DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: that's idiotic bullshit alternative |
| 20:20.28 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, You can't force peoplem to stick with what You feel is right |
| 20:20.44 | DocScrutinizer | honestly you can do better than that, I know you well enough by now |
| 20:21.24 | Estel_ | after all, people will code and use whatever they want, no natter if You call it hijacking or not. or compatible ;) |
| 20:21.39 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, either that, or even more insane method - lie about actual frequency range |
| 20:22.09 | DocScrutinizer | read that http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html and either get what I meant, or wave as I'm leaving now anyway |
| 20:22.19 | freemangordon | just to make powertop(and you) happy. |
| 20:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: whom are YOU going to make happy? |
| 20:23.00 | Estel_ | after all, sometimes You just need to choose lesser evil, to not allow bigger one, sneaking in the dark, to catch You. |
| 20:23.10 | Estel_ | BUHAHA that was dark! ;) |
| 20:23.18 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, NFC, I can just hope |
| 20:23.32 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, every kp user? |
| 20:23.39 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-84-221-12-90.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:23.41 | freemangordon | that someone will fin a value in what me (and others) are doing |
| 20:23.45 | freemangordon | *find |
| 20:23.48 | Estel_ | after all, people want upstream bugfixes and features, not emulating old bugs |
| 20:23.49 | DocScrutinizer | I don't mind KP users |
| 20:23.56 | DocScrutinizer | they can do whatever they like |
| 20:23.58 | Estel_ | to make powertop or other things happy |
| 20:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | but KP *IS* *NOT* *COMPATIBLE* |
| 20:24.29 | DocScrutinizer | and thus never will go into CSSU like that |
| 20:24.35 | Estel_ | well, whatever they like? so, they can say stock is not compatible and obsolete ;) |
| 20:24.40 | Estel_ | hm |
| 20:24.50 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, it is powertop not compatible, not KP |
| 20:24.52 | Estel_ | do You realize that CSSU will be whatever devs decide to... |
| 20:24.59 | Estel_ | and no one is entitled to block it? |
| 20:25.29 | DocScrutinizer | no, it will be what maintainers decide. For now I'm one of three |
| 20:25.56 | Estel_ | well, in case of any unnecessary conflict |
| 20:26.01 | Estel_ | it will just get forked |
| 20:26.20 | DocScrutinizer | you're free to fork - actually I appreciate you to do that |
| 20:26.21 | Estel_ | with the fork becoming upstream, probably |
| 20:26.26 | Estel_ | it's better to find compromise |
| 20:26.38 | Estel_ | than sticking to ideology just for sake of it |
| 20:26.54 | Estel_ | and by "fork" i mean it in "" |
| 20:27.20 | Estel_ | if someone will try to obstruct development for misty and hardly valid reasons... |
| 20:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | that's not ideology, that's common sense for all those users that are supposed to migrate from stock nokia repos to cssu |
| 20:27.48 | Estel_ | it's not arbitrary OTA |
| 20:27.50 | DocScrutinizer | if you want ACME bleeding edge, YOU fork |
| 20:28.03 | Estel_ | it's not kp fault that our version of powertop is screwed |
| 20:28.09 | DocScrutinizer | ktnxby |
| 20:28.16 | Estel_ | it's not kp fault that our version of powertop is screwed |
| 20:28.28 | Estel_ | it's just naming convention. |
| 20:28.37 | Estel_ | in factp, with all due respect |
| 20:28.43 | Estel_ | don't take it as hostile |
| 20:28.52 | Estel_ | devs doing things > maintainers |
| 20:29.26 | DocScrutinizer | that's bullshit, and I'm talking as a user here |
| 20:29.36 | Estel_ | with OpenOffice, maintainers denied to do things *right* way for hardly reasonable reasons |
| 20:30.00 | Estel_ | it resulted in "forking" into libre office and open office dissapearing from upstream in eye's blink |
| 20:30.12 | Estel_ | after all, devs choose by coding, and users by installing |
| 20:30.15 | *** join/#maemo SpeedyGhost (~moon3010@kvirc/translator/SpeedyGhost) |
| 20:30.26 | Estel_ | oracle as maintainer had nothing to say about it |
| 20:30.29 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991 and me installed cssu-extras for you, if you still need to fork, do it. I don't care |
| 20:30.47 | Estel_ | I don't have anything against cssu-extras |
| 20:30.55 | Estel_ | it sounds like good idea for things |
| 20:31.08 | DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu |
| 20:31.14 | Estel_ | I'm just saying that we must consider available resources and doers, over ideology |
| 20:31.56 | Estel_ | if doers will decide that it's fine to have CSSU and commuty kernel as 1 project, it's fine for me |
| 20:32.07 | chem|st | stay focused |
| 20:32.20 | Estel_ | if they'll decide to have 3 different kernels *and* people will like to work on it... |
| 20:32.32 | DocScrutinizer | that's for nobody to decide, it's written in CSSU 'manifest' this won't happen |
| 20:32.40 | Estel_ | considering we have 2 kernel developers, I doubt it. |
| 20:32.48 | Estel_ | manifest can be changed. |
| 20:32.52 | Estel_ | updated |
| 20:32.55 | Estel_ | whatever. |
| 20:33.09 | DocScrutinizer | sure, in you rfork you can change it all the way you like |
| 20:33.13 | Estel_ | it's no one's right to obstruct it, if Community would like change. |
| 20:33.24 | Estel_ | fork is bad word here. |
| 20:33.33 | chem|st | Estel_: the way this is gonna go... you should ask all to develop nemo to topnotch usable |
| 20:33.33 | DocScrutinizer | if community prefers your fork, they'll follow |
| 20:33.38 | Estel_ | In worst case, rather split, but I doubt it will ever happen. |
| 20:33.40 | DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu |
| 20:33.56 | DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu |
| 20:33.56 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, wtf with this hijack? |
| 20:33.57 | DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu |
| 20:34.04 | Estel_ | it's not Your property |
| 20:34.34 | Estel_ | doers and user = community will decide what CSSU is, and, in fact, are deciding every day |
| 20:34.41 | Woody14619 | Wasn't the whole point of CSSU to be able to use upstream tools? If you stick to a broken downstream behavior, what's the point of it? |
| 20:34.54 | Estel_ | good point. |
| 20:35.10 | chem|st | the developers decide not the users |
| 20:35.13 | Estel_ | chem|st, there is something valid in HYour point |
| 20:35.27 | Estel_ | but, people develop and use what they want |
| 20:35.34 | Estel_ | chem|st, latest point is not valid |
| 20:35.35 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: nope |
| 20:35.37 | DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu |
| 20:35.41 | Woody14619 | This is what library revisioning (and kernel module versioning) is for. If you break functionality, you pop up the major and allow both to co-exist. |
| 20:35.44 | Estel_ | if users don't use, devs dont decide |
| 20:35.46 | DocScrutinizer | it got a clear destiny |
| 20:35.55 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I think You should rest, honestly. |
| 20:36.13 | merlin1991 | guys srls |
| 20:36.14 | merlin1991 | y |
| 20:36.20 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, can you please stop with the hijack nonsense? You sound like a 4 year old. |
| 20:36.23 | Estel_ | there is no such thing as hijacking cssu, cssu is constantly evolving idea. |
| 20:36.40 | chem|st | Estel_: there might be some userbase wanting naked babes dancing while an upgrade happens... as long as ther is no developer adding a naked-babes feature to his upgrade there will be no naked babes! |
| 20:36.41 | Estel_ | it's just a heated discussion ;) |
| 20:36.46 | merlin1991 | cssu is going to be what the cssu maintainers decide, any other project that possibly is 90% like cssu can do whatever it's going todo |
| 20:36.49 | DocScrutinizer | no, you should stop trying to find arguments why some change to CSSU might be needed that makes it incompatible to stock maemo |
| 20:36.56 | Estel_ | chem|st, true |
| 20:37.00 | merlin1991 | but cssu as itself has a mission statement and is going to stick to that |
| 20:37.03 | Woody14619 | We get your point... for the 100th time.... saying it 101 times won't change anything. |
| 20:37.10 | Estel_ | now, old bugs for compatibility sake are those naked babies |
| 20:37.18 | DocScrutinizer | CSSU *is* and *stays* compatible to stock maemo |
| 20:37.32 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: +1 |
| 20:37.50 | Estel_ | merlin1991, not entirely true |
| 20:37.50 | Estel_ | maintainers can be changed. |
| 20:38.00 | chem|st | if not the idea of flashing and just installing cssu brakes |
| 20:38.02 | Estel_ | if they would like to obstruct project |
| 20:38.06 | merlin1991 | that's what doc means by hijack |
| 20:38.11 | Estel_ | btw compatible with maemo != compatible with bugs |
| 20:38.14 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, That's a great goal... and acheaving this 99% of the time is great. But there are times it needs to change. |
| 20:38.35 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, Not every app worked out of the box even when the PR releases hit from Nokia. |
| 20:38.39 | Estel_ | if powertop is screwed, it's not kp fault |
| 20:38.47 | Estel_ | sure thing |
| 20:38.53 | Estel_ | and good point from Woody14619 |
| 20:39.04 | Estel_ | pr.1.2 broke TONS of things |
| 20:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | Woody14619: if you can convince 99% of experienced kernel and system architects that tere's simply no other way,then maybe |
| 20:39.14 | Estel_ | no one said to Nokia "You won't hijack maemo" |
| 20:39.18 | chem|st | cssu is to fix whatever is possible by not destroying the base everything further upstream should go to mer |
| 20:39.23 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: bullshit |
| 20:39.36 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, 100% of our kernel developers is 2 people |
| 20:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | tell me which app broke by migration 1.2->1.3 |
| 20:39.59 | Estel_ | 1.1->1.2 I said |
| 20:40.05 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: you rnotion of kernel developers is 100% differing to mine |
| 20:40.07 | Estel_ | and for that, just use archive |
| 20:40.29 | Estel_ | ok, I'm talking about people actively working on our kernel right now. |
| 20:40.30 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, Several... Mappero, nhouse, Xploder.... |
| 20:41.05 | Estel_ | btw, I'm sure our powertop is screwed, as it's hardcoded to 600 mhz |
| 20:41.11 | Estel_ | is it valid for You? |
| 20:41.12 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, It took offline over a month to update their app to work. Mappero it still busted. |
| 20:41.16 | cehteh | needs more popcorn, bitches! |
| 20:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | so what? now you're the ones to decide we do that shit again (if such shit actually ever happened)? |
| 20:41.32 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, and it was clearly PR1.2->PR1.3 |
| 20:41.36 | chem|st | Estel_: 1.1->1.2 and 1.2->1.3 broke things as there were chip firmware upgrades involved incompatible to previous versions so there was no fallback or downgrade possible anymore, you devicce was stuck with what was installed last... |
| 20:41.43 | Estel_ | nope, it's just that feasibility > ideology |
| 20:42.02 | Estel_ | chem|st, agreed |
| 20:42.04 | chem|st | cehteh: good evening |
| 20:42.22 | chem|st | grabs some of cehteh's popcorn |
| 20:42.32 | Estel_ | it's quite funny as we're discussing how much kernel's versions we should have... |
| 20:42.36 | freemangordon | wants too |
| 20:42.43 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, I'm not arguing that we need to follow Nokia's lead on this. Just saying, don't let being 100% compatible hobble other things. |
| 20:42.45 | Estel_ | while we have NOT enough people to work on current sole kernel |
| 20:42.52 | DocScrutinizer | honestly guys, I (co-)managed whole projects (see ~joerg) - I'm not going to continue discussion on that level now |
| 20:43.14 | Estel_ | well, it's Your right to leave discussion at any time, of course |
| 20:43.37 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, If something is majorly broken, and can't be worked around, consider the possability of that change. |
| 20:43.53 | Estel_ | I'm sure shape of projects will appear naturally, anyway, by developers working on them |
| 20:44.47 | Estel_ | honestly, I enjoy ideological conversationsp but we need more "just get things done" and doers |
| 20:44.55 | chem|st | discussion ended, that's what we all agree about...oO( freemangordon gimme back my popcorn #@%&*(@$^ ) |
| 20:45.03 | Estel_ | haha |
| 20:45.15 | Woody14619 | In all honesty, I'm not even sure what we're talking about originally... but screaming that changing anything is hijacking things, and remaining 100% with stock is a bit of a strech, when Nokia itself has changed what "stock" means at least twice. |
| 20:45.23 | merlin1991 | btw Estel_ about "replacing" cssu maintainers, who's entitled todo so? |
| 20:45.23 | chem|st | this is now about popcorn |
| 20:45.33 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 20:45.55 | freemangordon | chem|st: well, ok, take your popcorn back |
| 20:45.57 | Estel_ | merlin1991, deva, obviously, but I doubt it will ever happen. In fact I'm sure not |
| 20:46.09 | merlin1991 | deva? |
| 20:46.12 | chem|st | Woody14619: Estel_ mer/nemo is what you are looking for... not hijacking cssu |
| 20:46.16 | Estel_ | it was just response to religiously saying "no one will change anything cause we decide" |
| 20:46.34 | chem|st | and that is another channel for sure |
| 20:46.42 | Estel_ | deva, it's nordic god, don't You know? :P |
| 20:46.52 | merlin1991 | nope :D |
| 20:46.54 | Estel_ | chem|st, mer is different project |
| 20:47.02 | Estel_ | keep it out of scope please, thanks |
| 20:47.05 | chem|st | Estel_: so is cssu... |
| 20:47.17 | Estel_ | cssu is people :D |
| 20:47.33 | chem|st | you are looking for some project build around PK |
| 20:47.34 | Sicelo | and mer? |
| 20:47.46 | Estel_ | if devs won't like maintainers religiously saying "no change!" cssu will just become something else |
| 20:47.47 | Woody14619 | chem|st, when mer/nemo has a working sync app, call me. While I applaud those working on it, I don't see it going very much farther than it already is. |
| 20:47.49 | Estel_ | in fact it's academic discussion |
| 20:47.56 | chem|st | or even around meego... |
| 20:48.01 | freemangordon | chem|st, why maemo cssu is out of maemo scope? |
| 20:48.01 | Estel_ | more "do", less "what will happen if" |
| 20:48.34 | Estel_ | seriously, who is most active CSSU pair of devs now? |
| 20:48.37 | Woody14619 | .oO(And people say all the drama is in TMO.... ;) ) |
| 20:48.42 | Sicelo | :P |
| 20:48.49 | merlin1991 | Woody14619: we have our own kind of drama here :D |
| 20:48.50 | chem|st | Woody14619: facebook broke so will others... wanna code all plugins from scratch? |
| 20:48.55 | Estel_ | Woody14619, lol |
| 20:49.20 | Estel_ | so tell facebook that the6're not compatible |
| 20:49.27 | Estel_ | and that they won't hijack maemo |
| 20:49.27 | freemangordon | chem|st, there is a facebook plugin in nemo? |
| 20:49.44 | chem|st | freemangordon: it is out of scope if you are looking to dump nokia-maemo-base |
| 20:49.46 | Woody14619 | chem|st, Facebook broke for iPhone as well... original iPhone 1 users are not getting updates. Want to update that? At least here we have the option. |
| 20:49.55 | freemangordon | AFAIK no, so what is the difference? It will be fritten from scratch in any way |
| 20:50.17 | freemangordon | *written |
| 20:50.19 | Estel_ | honestly, freemangordon and Pali are most active devs on both CSSU and KP |
| 20:50.23 | Woody14619 | Bingo... freemangordon nailed it in 1. :) |
| 20:50.34 | Estel_ | cooperation between two projects is profitable to all |
| 20:50.43 | Estel_ | in fact, it's going to consolidate IMO |
| 20:50.56 | Estel_ | and that also sounds very profitable for whole thing. |
| 20:51.14 | Woody14619 | I think lots of people are active.... being more active than another doesn't dictate terms. (Not always anyway) |
| 20:51.15 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-62-10-92-50.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:51.15 | chem|st | freemangordon: seen some fb icon in nemo videos, could be just an icon though ;) sure it will be like any other |
| 20:51.24 | freemangordon | the difference (as I see it) is that 99% of the other stuff is still OK in maemo, while not in nemo. |
| 20:51.32 | Estel_ | Woody14619, sure thing |
| 20:51.40 | Estel_ | I just mean that devs decide with code |
| 20:51.44 | Estel_ | user with install |
| 20:51.45 | Estel_ | etc |
| 20:51.51 | Estel_ | no one can force anything |
| 20:52.02 | Estel_ | either by "change" ideology |
| 20:52.09 | Estel_ | or "you won't hijack" one |
| 20:52.22 | Estel_ | it's unrelated what is written on CSSU wiki. |
| 20:52.28 | Woody14619 | yes, but encouraging that mentality leads to a mess. One look at OpenMoko will show you how slippery that slope is. |
| 20:52.33 | Estel_ | it's important what it will become via work done on it |
| 20:52.44 | chem|st | freemangordon: getting nemo to work would track some attention... |
| 20:52.50 | freemangordon | so changing the core OS just to have a working facebook applet (if we take that as an example) sounds inefficent to me |
| 20:52.56 | freemangordon | chem|st, sure think :) |
| 20:53.00 | freemangordon | *thing |
| 20:53.06 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: and maintainers decide about repo. period |
| 20:53.13 | Woody14619 | Some structure is good. And attempting to retain compatability is a good thing most times. The trick is to know when and where to compromise. |
| 20:53.17 | chem|st | it is inefficient |
| 20:53.26 | Estel_ | Woody14619, DocScrutinizer will become mad if You keep pointing why OpenMoko is failure ;) |
| 20:53.27 | DocScrutinizer | users=install, devels=code, maintainers=repo |
| 20:53.49 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: yiu're an idiot, with all respect |
| 20:53.50 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, maintainer are not rulers. |
| 20:53.57 | Estel_ | no problem ;) |
| 20:54.02 | DocScrutinizer | sure they are |
| 20:54.12 | Estel_ | although i preffer meritocratic arguments |
| 20:54.14 | chem|st | Estel_: they are... look at debian for example |
| 20:54.14 | DocScrutinizer | the sole rulers about that particular repo |
| 20:54.16 | Estel_ | no, they're not |
| 20:54.20 | merlin1991 | and why not? |
| 20:54.32 | freemangordon | sure, as long as there are new/updated packages to maintain |
| 20:54.33 | chem|st | if maintainers say no it does mean no |
| 20:54.34 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: make that change, tell me how |
| 20:54.38 | Estel_ | because when maintainers become too found on themselves |
| 20:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | you're freew to fork |
| 20:54.51 | Estel_ | and obstruct changes that majorfity wants |
| 20:54.54 | chem|st | then it is called suse? |
| 20:54.59 | Estel_ | project is split like OpenOffice |
| 20:55.00 | merlin1991 | then either there is a body ably to remove them or you fork |
| 20:55.01 | merlin1991 | that's it |
| 20:55.01 | DocScrutinizer | you're not telling maintainers what to do |
| 20:55.10 | Estel_ | and maintainers are left with dead and "empty" repo |
| 20:55.15 | merlin1991 | the maintianers themselves still wont change |
| 20:55.31 | Estel_ | yea, but they don't matter anymore |
| 20:55.42 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, I'm confused on why you see this as an "us vs them" thing? |
| 20:55.44 | Estel_ | oracled don't matter about FOSS office now |
| 20:55.48 | chem|st | there is no mozilla firefox on debian repos guess why... |
| 20:55.49 | Estel_ | they can stand whener they want |
| 20:55.52 | DocScrutinizer | so what? your problem? |
| 20:55.53 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, I don't think anyone is demanding you (or anyone else) do something. |
| 20:56.34 | Estel_ | if maintainers think that is good to become sole figure guarding cementry, why not |
| 20:56.49 | Estel_ | sure thing, no demanding anywhere |
| 20:56.54 | chem|st | and charging cssu to become what you just discuss will endup like debian sid |
| 20:56.59 | Estel_ | I just don't agree with "You will do as we say" |
| 20:57.04 | Estel_ | devs are doing. |
| 20:57.11 | Woody14619 | chem|st, which is why most Debian users have a second repo installed (at higher priority) to pick up Firefox and other tools. |
| 20:57.11 | Estel_ | devs are doing. |
| 20:57.17 | Estel_ | users using and feedbacking |
| 20:57.23 | Estel_ | sorry, mistake echo |
| 20:57.54 | chem|st | Woody14619: someone altered the code to fit debian and called it iceweasel! |
| 20:58.21 | Estel_ | iceweasel is, unfortunately, a little too slowly developed for most users. |
| 20:58.43 | Estel_ | anyway. |
| 20:58.45 | freemangordon | chem|st, but if nothing new comes because of some ideological reasoning, then there is a risk CSSU to stagnate |
| 20:58.56 | Sc0rpius | stagnate? |
| 20:59.04 | Estel_ | there is a risk that something else will become cssu |
| 20:59.09 | chem|st | I optout at that point thanks...oO(unstable is to fast for "most" users...) |
| 20:59.10 | Estel_ | and old cssu become open office |
| 20:59.20 | Estel_ | i.e. thing that only pretend that it's existing |
| 20:59.25 | Woody14619 | Same thing happens with Fedora. Open-only mentatlity forces a large majority of the users to add another repo just to get better than 640x480 displays... |
| 21:00.07 | Estel_ | ...and we're not forced to face such dilema, as we're talking about open stuff either way |
| 21:00.19 | Estel_ | just between a "compatibility dictate" |
| 21:00.28 | Estel_ | aka "you wont hijack" |
| 21:00.32 | Estel_ | and feasibility |
| 21:00.41 | chem|st | you may think of you&me talking of users... I think of my girlfriend and she's already pretty techsavvy |
| 21:00.42 | Estel_ | aka "compatibility when possible and feasible" |
| 21:00.52 | Woody14619 | and as a result, resources shift away from Fedora and into the other development stream. |
| 21:01.07 | Estel_ | BTW, cssu is already not compatible ;) |
| 21:01.14 | Estel_ | see Return and Kp_Enter |
| 21:01.20 | freemangordon | Sc0rpius, yes, there are several open bugs remaining, well we will fix it. And what after that? |
| 21:01.28 | Estel_ | no one cried about it too loudly |
| 21:01.54 | chem|st | Estel_: what has that to do with cssu? |
| 21:01.56 | Estel_ | but but, users need to use kp enter instead of return due to CSSU! |
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| 21:02.04 | Estel_ | it's unbeliveable incompatibility ;) |
| 21:02.17 | DocScrutinizer | maintainers got a 'concept' - they try to follow that - devels are free to code whatever they like but don't have any power to change what maintainers think about that code they develop. If devels are smart they discuss stuff and try to find a consensus how their cute stuff fits into that concept, or they decide for a different way to publish their stuff. In the end it's user who decides whether to pick disto A or distro B (though I feel |
| 21:02.18 | kaawee | Hello! What can I do to get interface usb0 running? |
| 21:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | sick talking about distors here, as CSSU is NOT a new distro, it's continuing maemo original) |
| 21:02.22 | Estel_ | cssu changed way xterm and some other things inerpret return and kp enter |
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| 21:02.25 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 21:02.34 | chem|st | Estel_: kp_enter was in maemo5 since 1.0 |
| 21:02.42 | Estel_ | yea |
| 21:02.47 | Estel_ | and now it's return |
| 21:02.54 | chem|st | and that is good! |
| 21:02.56 | merlin1991 | kaawee: the easist way is to use mad-developer |
| 21:03.09 | Estel_ | it's good I agree |
| 21:03.09 | kaawee | merlin1991: Isn't it available by default? |
| 21:03.10 | chem|st | it is how it should be |
| 21:03.13 | Estel_ | but incompatible! |
| 21:03.19 | chem|st | with what? |
| 21:03.20 | Estel_ | at least as much as kp and powertop |
| 21:03.25 | Estel_ | even more |
| 21:03.36 | merlin1991 | kaawee: it is but that way you have a nice gui and a dhcp server and whatnot :) |
| 21:03.41 | chem|st | all base programs handle it fine |
| 21:03.48 | Estel_ | chem|st, with everything that relied on kp_enter! |
| 21:04.01 | Estel_ | I'm ironically, if You haven't noticed |
| 21:04.06 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: sorry dude, the KP-enter fix is backwards compatible - bad example |
| 21:04.14 | Estel_ | not always |
| 21:04.22 | Estel_ | reinob made a list of incompatible apps |
| 21:04.26 | Estel_ | on tmo already |
| 21:04.34 | Estel_ | most of them fixed now |
| 21:04.35 | kaawee | merlin1991: well, I just want to have TCP access using usb and I'm not afraid to enter some commands, but it seems that "usb0" is not there at all |
| 21:04.36 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 21:04.40 | chem|st | incompatible from nokia repos? |
| 21:04.43 | Estel_ | it was incompatible! how come... |
| 21:04.55 | Sicelo | kaawee: you are right that it's available by default .. if you want to do it manually, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 21:05.11 | Estel_ | I'm just saying that compatibility zealots are bigotic a little |
| 21:05.19 | Estel_ | what suits You is ok |
| 21:05.23 | Estel_ | even if not compatible |
| 21:05.32 | Estel_ | it's putting personal prefferences over merit |
| 21:05.37 | Estel_ | i.e. feasibility etc |
| 21:05.49 | chem|st | I changed kp_enter mapping in 1.0 and never had any issues... |
| 21:05.54 | Estel_ | return is feasible. |
| 21:06.00 | Estel_ | kernel-power too. |
| 21:06.06 | DocScrutinizer | so go install whatever you like, but don't expect all of it to show up on cssu repo |
| 21:06.22 | Estel_ | return is/was incompatible with some things, but is problem of those things |
| 21:06.40 | Estel_ | powertop is incompatible with kp, but it's powertop problem |
| 21:06.50 | DocScrutinizer | sighs loudly, and definitely turns away |
| 21:06.58 | Estel_ | = using it as another reason why "kp is incompatible" is plain wrong |
| 21:06.58 | chem|st | I'm out |
| 21:07.06 | Estel_ | bye bye |
| 21:07.14 | Estel_ | popcorn ended, anyway |
| 21:07.57 | Estel_ | I just hope that we can have such or more heated discussions in future without "idiots" flying over IRC channel etc |
| 21:08.08 | Estel_ | as it's not a way of discussing I'm used to. |
| 21:08.18 | Estel_ | see ya! I'm off too. |
| 21:08.36 | Woody14619 | Estel_, your image is fubar... |
| 21:08.47 | DocScrutinizer | just one rather funny last summary: the whole topic started when *estel_* complained about sudden increase in idle power consumption and gone apeshit when I suggested to install stock kernel first measure |
| 21:08.49 | Estel_ | yea |
| 21:08.59 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, nope |
| 21:09.10 | Estel_ | You suggested it that I might have 1150 mhz |
| 21:09.14 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 21:09.17 | Estel_ | powertop works ok |
| 21:09.20 | DocScrutinizer | NO I DIDN'T |
| 21:09.26 | Estel_ | and this discussion started ages ago |
| 21:09.32 | Estel_ | ok, so missunderstanding |
| 21:09.44 | Estel_ | btw old discussions about cssu, they echoe always. |
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| 21:10.16 | Estel_ | some people pivoting it to things they would like it to be, while it turned different way long time ago, in practice. |
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| 21:10.28 | Estel_ | whatever. |
| 21:11.05 | Estel_ | btw we're morons, we discussed it on #maemo instead of #maemo-ssu ;) |
| 21:11.06 | DocScrutinizer | whatever your universe shows when you look CSSU's direction, yes |
| 21:11.48 | DocScrutinizer | fact is cssu got a foundation manifest |
| 21:11.51 | Estel_ | I'm off to see why debian's xbindkeys go apeshit keeping cpu on C1 :/ |
| 21:12.10 | DocScrutinizer | and that's not to ignore at momentary impulse or childish whim |
| 21:12.34 | Estel_ | manifest or not, only practice will shown how it will turn out |
| 21:12.50 | DocScrutinizer | and you're not going to redefine CSSU by "while it turned different way long time ago, in practice." |
| 21:13.04 | Estel_ | long time ago, there was a mnifest that no one will ever need more than 512kb of RAM, sigh |
| 21:13.15 | *** join/#maemo spark666 (~spark666@92.85.69.224) |
| 21:13.18 | DocScrutinizer | ...as that's your personal take on it |
| 21:13.30 | *** join/#maemo spark666 (~spark666@unaffiliated/spark666) |
| 21:13.33 | DocScrutinizer | and maintainers and founders will just shrug |
| 21:13.43 | Estel_ | not mine, ffs. big chaotic body of devs and users will decide |
| 21:13.47 | Estel_ | by practical action |
| 21:13.56 | Estel_ | cssu shape is not forming on academic discussions |
| 21:13.57 | DocScrutinizer | so what |
| 21:14.05 | Estel_ | that could only raise ego of discuttants. |
| 21:14.06 | DocScrutinizer | create ACME-NOVE-CSSU |
| 21:14.13 | DocScrutinizer | you're free to fork |
| 21:14.16 | Estel_ | it's all matter of ad-hoc steps and practice |
| 21:14.36 | Estel_ | the funniest thing is that I doubt fork will be ever needed ;) |
| 21:14.53 | Estel_ | discussions are just another reality |
| 21:15.01 | Estel_ | practice is all that matter. |
| 21:15.12 | Estel_ | aka get things done (tm) |
| 21:15.16 | DocScrutinizer | actually you're right, as me and merlin1991 created cssu-extras, with a lot of input from other experienced maintainers |
| 21:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | so your fork won't ever be needed |
| 21:15.49 | Estel_ | ...which, as I've said, sounds like good idea, as long as people want to spend their time on it |
| 21:15.50 | merlin1991 | doc relax :D |
| 21:15.59 | Estel_ | and managing compatibility with main cssu |
| 21:16.05 | DocScrutinizer | N8 |
| 21:16.09 | Estel_ | I'm not forking anything. |
| 21:16.28 | Estel_ | merlin1991, btw, I hope You don't think I want to replace cssu maintainrs |
| 21:16.29 | merlin1991 | he said practice will show, and since I don't see a sudden change of maintainers in cssu I don't see a sudden change in direction :) |
| 21:16.35 | Estel_ | I think You're all doing great work |
| 21:17.19 | Estel_ | it's just that I deny clocking things due to personal ideology/prefference and no one is entitled to do so. Which doesn't sound like big problem now |
| 21:18.01 | kaawee | On "ifup usb0", I get "ifconfig: SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device". Why? |
| 21:18.04 | merlin1991 | if anything this whole discussion has to be done with mag since he has the last word on anything cssu |
| 21:18.16 | merlin1991 | kaawee gimme a sec |
| 21:18.22 | Sicelo | kaawee: did you choose PC Suite mode? |
| 21:18.25 | Estel_ | I'm sure Council will support any feasible project that "provides" and CSSU is IMO one of two main such things |
| 21:18.39 | kaawee | Sicelo: now I did |
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| 21:19.16 | Sicelo | hmm, i'm not so sure i get you kaawee :) |
| 21:20.14 | kaawee | Sicelo: Well, I plugged in the USB cable, then issued "ifup usb0" (without selecting pc suite mode explicitly), with the result that no "usb0" device was available. After selection pc suite mode, also no "usb0" device is available. |
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| 21:22.06 | kaawee | Sicelo: however, "lsmod | grep ^usb" yields "usbnet 13062 0" |
| 21:24.41 | merlin1991 | kaawee: you need to check for g_nokia or g_ether |
| 21:25.04 | merlin1991 | and g_file_storage is not allowed to be there :) |
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| 21:27.13 | kaawee | merlin1991: there is just "g_nokia" there, no any other "g_" module |
| 21:27.30 | Woody14619 | K. I'm off till Tuesday. May be back tomorrow for the meeting if I can get access, otherwise, have a great holiday (or weekend if you're not in the US. ;) |
| 21:27.38 | merlin1991 | hm with g_nokia you "should" get usb networking |
| 21:27.56 | Estel_ | see ya Woody |
| 21:28.35 | kaawee | merlin1991: I, however, have a "phonet0" and a "upnlink0" device, whatever this is |
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| 21:46.21 | Sicelo | kaawee: he meant g_ether/nokia on your pc, not N900 |
| 21:47.15 | merlin1991 | Sicelo: I'm pretty sure I meant on the n900 :) |
| 21:47.31 | merlin1991 | though I'm starting to wonder if kaawee is missing usb0 on the n900 or on his host |
| 21:50.54 | Sicelo | O.o |
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| 21:51.34 | Estel_ | Sicelo, take look at it: |
| 21:51.35 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?a24ca26a0cbca5b9#L5LF09Y9qd87r6BYPmaNLit/ohIUawvVUiMAk8Q/7tE= |
| 21:51.52 | Estel_ | no xbindkeys and no acticity, yet, still 100% time in C1 |
| 21:52.00 | Estel_ | WTF I ask? |
| 21:52.07 | Sicelo | possible for N900 connected via PC Suite mode to have g_file_storage loaded? i'm sure the script for that unloads it automatically |
| 21:52.32 | Estel_ | anyone knowledgeable, any ideas, judging by this powertop output? |
| 21:53.19 | Estel_ | this bugger keeps my device @ ~50 mA idle usage... |
| 21:53.48 | Estel_ | cpu just sit in C1, for no reason, what the?... |
| 21:54.04 | merlin1991 | Sicelo: pc suite sohuld unload mass storge |
| 21:54.12 | merlin1991 | but i had it happen that it didn't |
| 21:54.17 | merlin1991 | though that was on a fucked up setup |
| 21:54.22 | Sicelo | interesting |
| 21:55.28 | Sicelo | btw, kaawee, are you following the wiki? it's quite verbose |
| 21:56.15 | Sicelo | Estel_: you nearly had to flash a day or two ago .. maybe something else broke :\ |
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| 22:02.20 | sumanah | My N900 has my Skype password on it, which I've forgotten, and I'm trying to figure out how to retrieve it. I figure it's stored in plaintext somewhere on the device, but I'm having a hard time figuring out where/how |
| 22:05.16 | Sicelo | why don't you simply ask for a pssword reset from skype website? |
| 22:07.02 | sumanah | Aha, found it, file:///home/user/.rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg |
| 22:07.22 | sumanah | Sicelo: Because I think that the email address I signed up with is no longer one I have access to :( |
| 22:07.30 | Sicelo | anyway, install 'mc-tool', then do, 'mc-tool list' to find out which account it's in, the do 'mc-tool show <full/skype/account_name>' .. your password is there |
| 22:07.41 | Sicelo | ok. you found it elsewhere :P |
| 22:07.51 | sumanah | Thanks for the help though! |
| 22:09.20 | *** join/#maemo vi__ (~user@87.112.134.223) |
| 22:10.34 | Sicelo | hmm, my .rtcomm.../accounts.cfg doesn't seems to show the password |
| 22:12.28 | vi__ | Estel_: grats on becoming a maemo comunity council member. |
| 22:12.34 | vi__ | ...i think. |
| 22:12.45 | *** join/#maemo Woody14619 (~Woody@66-162-186-66.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 22:13.18 | vi__ | Woody14619: grats on becoming a community council member. |
| 22:13.36 | Woody14619 | wow.... so tiny on the N900... |
| 22:13.49 | vi__ | Woody14619: what does the 14619 mean? |
| 22:13.55 | vi__ | what is so tiny? |
| 22:14.10 | Woody14619 | thanks vi__. just setting up my N900 to irc in in case I get access tomorrow. |
| 22:14.28 | vi__ | Woody14619: irrsi, right! |
| 22:14.29 | Woody14619 | US zipcode. :) |
| 22:14.34 | vi__ | heh |
| 22:14.43 | vi__ | imma gonna find your house |
| 22:14.48 | Woody14619 | xchat actually. :) |
| 22:14.51 | Sicelo | nah, he's on xchat.. |
| 22:15.00 | vi__ | xchat, bah. |
| 22:15.19 | Woody14619 | still need to setup ssl.... |
| 22:15.28 | vi__ | it is all about the irrsi |
| 22:15.34 | merlin1991 | ssl on irc, lulz |
| 22:15.48 | Sicelo | Woody14619: somewhere docscrutinizer has a nice config that makes xchat kinda bearable |
| 22:15.55 | GeneralAntilles | XChat on N900 is the best. |
| 22:16.05 | GeneralAntilles | I wish it were available on Harmattan. |
| 22:16.24 | Woody14619 | I use Ychat on my system normally, so... :) |
| 22:16.29 | vi__ | merlin1991: too right, I dun wont no goviment spiing on my eye-arr-see |
| 22:17.29 | Woody14619 | k, off to holiday. hope to be back tomorrow for meeting. if not see you all tuesday. Have a nice holiday! |
| 22:17.38 | vi__ | bb |
| 22:17.53 | vi__ | has anyone here used dbuscron? |
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| 22:26.36 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: woody: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/ |
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| 23:22.28 | sumanah | hmm, how do I install mc-tool? I am at the root prompt, but apt-cache doesn't know about that package at all |
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| 23:52.01 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: you dont happen to know a very minimalistic/simple LED constant current source with low drop .. better and simpler than: http://schaltplan.de.tl/LED_Konstantstromquelle.htm |
| 23:52.04 | cehteh | ? |
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