IRC log for #maemo on 20120518

`00:09.44`	`*** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio@unaffiliated/kerio)`
`00:21.55`	`*** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.140)`
`00:33.05`	`*** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@212-183-127-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`00:52.45`	`*** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.138)`
`00:57.26`	`*** join/#maemo LaoLang_coo_ (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.138)`
`01:13.14`	`*** join/#maemo uen\| (~uen@p5DCB3221.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:14.52`	`*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@modemcable155.221-22-96.mc.videotron.ca)`
`01:14.52`	`*** join/#maemo Jade (~jade@unaffiliated/jade)`
`01:15.34`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`01:27.43`	`*** join/#maemo beford (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford)`
`01:29.55`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`01:49.44`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`01:54.11`	`Estel_`	`DocScrutinizer, ping`
`01:54.56`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Estel_: hm?`
`01:55.34`	`*** join/#maemo swc\|666 (~goldbond@Aircrack-NG/Friend)`
`01:58.15`	`Estel_`	`Is there a way to automaticaly disable messages marked as *buffextras in znc, DocScrutinizer?`
`01:58.29`	`Estel_`	`(I warned You I'll be back with questions :P )`
`01:59.08`	`Estel_`	`I find myself, most of the time, scrolling through 80% of useless info about who joined or changed name, for 20% of actual talking`
`01:59.16`	`*** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-67-10-220-35.elp.res.rr.com)`
`01:59.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I've necer seen those msgs`
`01:59.53`	`Estel_`	`hm, during playback, it makes *bufextras as a "nick" for "channel" messages`
`01:59.59`	`Estel_`	`who joined, who left etc`
`02:00.14`	`*** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.141)`
`02:00.17`	`Estel_`	`btw it's good news that You don't see it, it mean, that it's disableable ;)`
`02:00.28`	`DocScrutinizer`	`in each IRC client there's a way to set "hide join/nick/part" or "/ignore * -j" or whatever`
`02:00.33`	`Estel_`	`searching for buffextras now`
`02:00.58`	`Estel_`	`ok will try to find it in xchat`
`02:01.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`in (n900)xchat it's in context menu of channel tabs`
`02:01.34`	`Estel_`	`I though that - if possible - it may be better idea to filter them out from buffer at all, thus they're not eating space from 5000 lines allowedd + space on proxy`
`02:02.32`	`*** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@dslb-178-002-236-195.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`02:02.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and not eating bandwidth, yeah. But it's not possible by default. And I think the cient needs the msgs, to keep userlists up to date`
`02:03.10`	`Estel_`	`(m, I see`
`02:03.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I'm not sure the buffered join/part/nickchange msgs will get filtered like the "online" ones`
`02:03.53`	`Estel_`	`thanks a lot for hidw join/part, though :) still sees "is now known as",, but still less mess`
`02:04.03`	`Estel_`	`it seems that not`
`02:04.12`	`Estel_`	`as buffextras is fake-user`
`02:04.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:nod:`
`02:04.27`	`DocScrutinizer`	`so ignore that user ;-)`
`02:04.30`	`*** join/#maemo LaoLang_coo_ (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.141)`
`02:04.31`	`Estel_`	`so how do You managed to "not see them"`
`02:04.32`	`Estel_`	`lol`
`02:04.37`	`Estel_`	`simple as that`
`02:05.00`	`Estel_`	`thanks a lot`
`02:05.06`	`LaoLang_coo_`	`hello, where can I see the changlog of maemo offical release?`
`02:05.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ummm`
`02:05.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Estel_: yw`
`02:06.01`	`Estel_`	`PR1.3, or, by any chance, You mean not official CSSU?`
`02:06.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`maemo official doesn't sound like CSSU`
`02:07.02`	`Estel_`	`nods`
`02:07.14`	`Estel_`	`yet, people seem to name things in a wrong way ;)`
`02:07.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`tbh I have no idea if and where such changelogs might be`
`02:07.34`	`Estel_`	`PR1.3? somewhere in wiki`
`02:07.41`	`Estel_`	`but it's just basic`
`02:07.47`	`Estel_`	`no details, no commits`
`02:07.58`	`Estel_`	`more like marketting bubblebabble`
`02:08.08`	`Estel_`	`improved this, improved that`
`02:09.08`	`Estel_`	`erm, while adding mask to ignore, it wants me to type user@host.name`
`02:09.16`	`Estel_`	`should I use proxy hostname?`
`02:09.32`	`Estel_`	`or there is a way to block user globally with less hassle?`
`02:09.36`	`Estel_`	`use ALL or what?`
`02:09.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`@*`
`02:09.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or ALL`
`02:09.59`	`Estel_`	`ok, thanks`
`02:10.02`	`Estel_`	`last thing`
`02:10.06`	`Estel_`	`this fake user got`
`02:10.08`	`DocScrutinizer`	`aah wait, ALL etc is for selecting type of msg`
`02:10.12`	`Estel_`	`*buffextras name`
`02:10.23`	`Estel_`	`how to make it recognize * as part of name not wildcard?`
`02:10.27`	`Estel_`	`yea`
`02:10.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, good question`
`02:10.47`	`DocScrutinizer`	`maybe * works as wildcard for *`
`02:10.58`	`Estel_`	`it's a pity that I can't just right-click "him" and select "add to ignored list" :P`
`02:11.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`why you can't?`
`02:11.20`	`Estel_`	`nothing happens (in xchat)`
`02:11.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`umm`
`02:11.29`	`Estel_`	`maybe because hes not in user list?`
`02:12.11`	`Estel_`	`btw it's funny`
`02:12.23`	`Estel_`	`when I right click Your name, menu opens`
`02:12.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`no, you need to do that in userlist`
`02:12.30`	`Estel_`	`but there is no /ignore`
`02:12.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`menu...`
`02:12.36`	`Estel_`	`add to friend list etc`
`02:12.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`err`
`02:12.45`	`Estel_`	`negative, *buffextras isn't in user list`
`02:12.51`	`DocScrutinizer`	`dang`
`02:12.55`	`Estel_`	`thought about that already :P`
`02:13.11`	`Estel_`	`and for user via right click I can do channel op things or friend but no ignore lol`
`02:14.26`	`Estel_`	`erm`
`02:14.36`	`Estel_`	`ZNC wiki saays buffextras is a module`
`02:14.40`	`LaoLang_coo_`	`DocScrutinizer, yes, you got what I want :)`
`02:14.47`	`Estel_`	`that adds those useless message`
`02:15.03`	`Estel_`	`so, kicking this module out of my config should disable it on proxy`
`02:15.11`	`Estel_`	`= not eating bandwidth etc`
`02:15.28`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`I think you can kick modules in *status`
`02:15.33`	`Estel_`	`http://wiki.znc.in/Buffextras`
`02:15.50`	`Estel_`	`I see`
`02:17.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`tell me if it works`
`02:19.03`	`Estel_`	`it seems yes, but is it persistent through reboots etc?`
`02:19.10`	`Estel_`	`or even reconnects?`
`02:20.21`	`Estel_`	`I mean if it wouldn't be better to kick it from config file. If not, it's fine too :)`
`02:21.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes`
`02:21.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I think it updates config file`
`02:22.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`as it does with channels you joined`
`02:22.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lemme look`
`02:24.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hmm, still there`
`02:26.11`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I commented simple_away and buffextras, going to reload config`
`02:29.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Estel_: OK?`
`02:30.07`	`*** join/#maemo pcfe (~quassel@redhat/pcfe)`
`02:33.46`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`02:33.55`	`Estel_`	`ok`
`02:34.02`	`Estel_`	`DocScrutinizer, of course`
`02:41.51`	`*** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.78.151.78)`
`02:51.55`	`*** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org)`
`02:57.42`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`03:00.16`	`*** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@dslb-178-002-231-177.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`03:00.55`	`*** join/#maemo dockane_ (~dockane@dsdf-4d0a1c74.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`03:09.57`	`*** join/#maemo bjv (~bjv@cpe-72-179-133-49.satx.res.rr.com)`
`03:20.34`	`*** join/#maemo jd (~jade@bas2-montreal33-1176357269.dsl.bell.ca)`
`03:20.34`	`*** join/#maemo jd (~jade@unaffiliated/jade)`
`03:22.35`	`Estel_`	`DocScrutinizer, are You still there? and, do You ever sleep?`
`03:22.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sleep is useless`
`03:24.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Estel_: what's up?`
`03:25.12`	`Estel_`	`;) could we do small test`
`03:25.25`	`Estel_`	`I'll disconnect, and You'll check if I've been marked away`
`03:25.32`	`Estel_`	`and write some test things`
`03:25.37`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:-D`
`03:25.45`	`Estel_`	`then, I'll reonnect and see if buffer still works as it should`
`03:25.49`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I don't think you'll get marked away`
`03:26.01`	`Estel_`	`ok?`
`03:26.03`	`*** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.78.151.78)`
`03:26.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ok`
`03:26.07`	`Estel_`	`cause You've kicked out simple_away? :P`
`03:26.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`:nod:`
`03:26.17`	`Estel_`	`before, I was marked away on disconnect from proxy`
`03:26.26`	`DocScrutinizer`	`really?`
`03:26.47`	`Estel_`	`erm, and simple away had something to do with messages? why You thought its good to disable it?`
`03:26.48`	`Estel_`	`yea.`
`03:26.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`well, I can uncomment it`
`03:26.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`in 30s`
`03:27.04`	`Estel_`	`after connecting, I got buffer message about estel being marked away`
`03:27.23`	`Estel_`	`and after connecting that "You're no longer marked away"`
`03:27.23`	`*** join/#maemo beford (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford)`
`03:27.32`	`Estel_`	`so I suppose it worked`
`03:27.59`	`Estel_`	`ok, so please uncomment it, then we'll perform test... Thanks in advance`
`03:28.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`done :-D`
`03:29.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you should've seen a "*rehash finished"`
`03:29.50`	`DocScrutinizer`	`hope you're offline meanwhile ;-D`
`03:31.13`	`Estel_`	`:) not yet`
`03:31.19`	`Estel_`	`and no rehash message`
`03:31.29`	`Estel_`	`Catorise blocked my device for a while`
`03:31.46`	`DocScrutinizer`	`umm, so maybe only operator account gets that msg`
`03:31.52`	`Estel_`	`ok, I'm re connecting after 15 second, write something in meantime pls`
`03:31.55`	`Estel_`	`possible`
`03:32.05`	`DocScrutinizer`	`15 sec from when?`
`03:32.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`you're funny`
`03:32.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`15 sec is short time`
`03:33.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and I think ZNC won't notice you disconnecting, only if ping timeouts or TCP timeouts happen`
`03:34.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`aah, you're marked away`
`03:34.42`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Estel_: ?`
`03:35.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`looks good`
`03:37.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`long 15 seconds ;-P`
`03:39.24`	`*** join/#maemo dmb (dmb@unaffiliated/dmb)`
`03:41.04`	`*** join/#maemo xev (~xev@unaffiliated/xev)`
`03:58.48`	`*** join/#maemo atlas (~atlas@71-13-79-30.static.aldl.mi.charter.com)`
`04:01.27`	`*** join/#maemo jd (~jade@unaffiliated/jade)`
`04:02.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`extremely long 15 seconds`
`04:07.44`	`*** join/#maemo eddyb (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb)`
`04:07.48`	`eddyb`	`hi`
`04:08.08`	`eddyb`	`so I got a N900, and I love it`
`04:08.16`	`eddyb`	`but as anything else in the world, it's not perfect`
`04:08.16`	`beford`	`<3`
`04:08.23`	`beford`	`it is perfect`
`04:08.43`	`eddyb`	`I looked for chromium, but I only get results from 2010, there's nothing new`
`04:13.42`	`*** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz)`
`04:14.24`	`eddyb`	`so, is there no recent chromium build?`
`04:15.39`	`beford`	`I remember reading something about it on the forums, somehow it was required to be removed from the repo. No idea why`
`04:21.07`	`eddyb`	`:(`
`04:21.12`	`eddyb`	`I need a decent browser`
`04:21.25`	`eddyb`	`I tried Tear, it's JS engine is too old`
`04:23.50`	`*** join/#maemo wmarone_ (~wmarone@c-67-174-151-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`04:25.02`	`eddyb`	`*its`
`04:25.43`	`beford`	`maybe with easy debian you can get a recent browser?`
`04:27.40`	`eddyb`	`easy-deb-chroot?`
`04:28.57`	`beford`	`yes, I suppose its a bit overkill to run a debian system just for a browser but well`
`04:29.13`	`eddyb`	`pffft, it's ok`
`04:31.33`	`eddyb`	`guess I'll play with Cleven some more :)`
`04:32.52`	`DocScrutinizer`	`honestly what's wrong with microB?`
`04:34.19`	`pronto\|s1rver`	`its made from potatoes`
`04:35.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`loves potatoes`
`04:36.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`I haven't used Opera since at least 6 months`
`04:37.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`chromium, in a easydeb? Dang there must be sth terribly odd with microB`
`04:39.23`	`*** join/#maemo kimitake_idle (~kimitake@75.0.181.216)`
`04:42.54`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`04:45.19`	`*** join/#maemo khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-652-1-144-13.w90-7.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
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`04:47.59`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`04:56.36`	`*** join/#maemo denism (denism@nat/nokia/x-tbfvnuoqtrjfyzyq)`
`04:59.09`	`*** join/#maemo denism1 (denism@nat/nokia/x-papcugupxfuxfvpr)`
`05:01.09`	`*** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org)`
`05:01.17`	`Estel_`	`DocScrutinizer, sorry for awesomely extremely long 15 seconds :P`
`05:01.32`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`hehe`
`05:01.40`	`Estel_`	`my son just awakened, and I got to feed him etc`
`05:01.52`	`Estel_`	`then my connection ceased to work :P`
`05:02.23`	`Estel_`	`everything works great. I get messages that I'm interested in and I got properly set "away" mark`
`05:02.54`	`Estel_`	`tahnk You for another bit of help and hosting to use this wonderful tool :)`
`05:03.26`	`Estel_`	`as for microB, for me, biggest issue is lack of tabs - opening plenthora of windows is annoying`
`05:03.38`	`Estel_`	`lack of "forward" as addition to back`
`05:03.55`	`Estel_`	`and biggest issue - lack of spell checking`
`05:04.34`	`Estel_`	`it's very important for someone who write in many languages @ forums etc, and using LibreOffice (on device) for this everytime is suboptimal`
`05:04.47`	`Estel_`	`for everything else, microB roxx, especially speed`
`05:05.18`	`Estel_`	`BTW Chromium is working very well via ED, and I use it daily to write on TMO`
`05:06.42`	`Estel_`	`it's generally very fast, even with 20+ tabs opened - if one use ED on dedicated partition, swap on microSD and tuned swap settings (not as proposed in swapollube, those settings are depreciated)`
`05:07.25`	`Estel_`	`OK, I'm away for now, need to care care about kids :) see ya`
`05:08.09`	`DocScrutinizer51`	`forward in microB isn't that hard to do. swipe from right, tap righthand next page in history`
`05:09.58`	`*** join/#maemo _eddyb_ (~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb)`
`05:11.27`	`*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.22)`
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`05:51.16`	`*** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@unaffiliated/tuxsavvy)`
`05:58.33`	`*** join/#maemo retro\|cz (~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz)`
`06:23.03`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`06:36.20`	`Estel_`	`DocScrutinizer, (microb) true, forget about it. Still, tabs and spell check (or, generally, easy inclusion of extensions) is a problem for me when doing "serious" asks via web frontend ;)`
`06:36.30`	`Estel_`	`for general browsing, microB kicks ass`
`06:36.49`	`*** join/#maemo Venemo_N950 (~Venemo@fedora/Venemo)`
`06:37.12`	`Estel_`	`BTW - again, as everyone know already ;) We have Council election running. I'm glad to talk with anyone interested and/or answer questions, as a candidate`
`06:37.38`	`Venemo_N950`	`heya`
`06:37.45`	`Estel_`	`for a hour or two from now on. Of course, You may ping me also when I'm away - I'll answer when present`
`06:37.49`	`Estel_`	`hi there`
`06:38.07`	`Venemo_N950`	`so, I hear Nokia wants to give us N9s?`
`06:38.13`	`Estel_`	`+ please include my nick when pinging me after a silent while`
`06:38.17`	`Estel_`	`yep. N950 to`
`06:38.22`	`Estel_`	`100 total`
`06:38.28`	`Estel_`	`40 N950`
`06:38.45`	`Estel_`	`last batch that is known to exist, as per Qgil`
`06:38.49`	`Venemo_N950`	`I already have one, and am not that greedy`
`06:38.55`	`Estel_`	`;)`
`06:39.09`	`Venemo_N950`	`but an N9'd be nice to have`
`06:39.17`	`Estel_`	`it's good, cause someone who received one already can't apply for next in most categories`
`06:39.43`	`Venemo_N950`	`so, can I apply for an N9 somehow?`
`06:39.46`	`Estel_`	`I think that someone owning N950 should still be able to get N9 is did something worth such recognition`
`06:39.53`	`Estel_`	`there are 4 categories`
`06:40.01`	`Venemo_N950`	`mhhmm`
`06:40.02`	`Estel_`	`Community Aawards (Maemo)`
`06:40.11`	`Estel_`	`25 devices total in each category`
`06:40.19`	`Estel_`	`for pats deeds`
`06:40.25`	`Estel_`	`Coding Competition`
`06:40.37`	`Venemo_N950`	`maybe I should've paid more attention to my Harmattan app dev efforts lately?`
`06:40.39`	`Estel_`	`see it's thread on TMO, I think You can grasp N9 here`
`06:40.46`	`Estel_`	`not exactly.`
`06:41.02`	`Estel_`	`I'm trying my best to convince CC staff to recognize multiplatform programs`
`06:41.15`	`Venemo_N950`	`well, I still owe some apps to the community that I've never released`
`06:41.17`	`Estel_`	`i.e. the more compatigble with both Maemo and Harmattan, the better`
`06:41.31`	`Estel_`	`if also compatible with Mer, it's paradise`
`06:41.48`	`Venemo_N950`	`awesome idea! :)`
`06:41.52`	`Estel_`	`we're going to have OBS for all targets soon, so it's good practice to do multiplatform`
`06:41.52`	`Sc0rpius`	`Mer?`
`06:42.03`	`Estel_`	`as soon it will be even more easy to do`
`06:42.09`	`Sc0rpius`	`that sounds interesting`
`06:42.17`	`Venemo_N950`	`mhm`
`06:42.18`	`Sc0rpius`	`main Mer development is in Qt right?`
`06:42.27`	`Estel_`	`if code is good enough, doing it for different platforms may be as easy as choosing different target in OBS`
`06:42.32`	`Estel_`	`yep`
`06:42.38`	`Venemo_N950`	`Sc0rpius, yep, that too`
`06:42.40`	`Estel_`	`here we go for 3th category`
`06:42.43`	`Estel_`	`QT`
`06:42.45`	`Sc0rpius`	`Qt is great I love it`
`06:42.48`	`Estel_`	`here qgil is managing it`
`06:42.50`	`Venemo_N950`	`:)`
`06:43.06`	`Estel_`	`4th category is qt 5 experimental, so it's almost not related to maemo.org at all`
`06:43.14`	`Venemo_N950`	`almost`
`06:43.16`	`Venemo_N950`	`:P`
`06:43.21`	`Estel_`	`:P`
`06:43.22`	`Sc0rpius`	`I wonder if Mer is installable in any device`
`06:43.28`	`Estel_`	`of course it is`
`06:43.32`	`Sc0rpius`	`which one`
`06:43.40`	`Estel_`	`N900 from top of my head`
`06:43.43`	`Venemo_N950`	`Mer runs on all N9(x0) devices`
`06:43.49`	`Estel_`	`+ some android tablets`
`06:43.51`	`Sc0rpius`	`I haven't ever heard of anyone using an N900 with Mer`
`06:43.57`	`*** join/#maemo ychavan (ychavan@nat/redhat/x-xjurhnifkyogllcj)`
`06:44.00`	`Estel_`	`of course You have.`
`06:44.03`	`Estel_`	`Mer is a core`
`06:44.03`	`Sc0rpius`	`and is it usable? I mean can you dial a phone number and receive SMS ?`
`06:44.08`	`Venemo_N950`	`Sc0rpius, ask on #mer`
`06:44.13`	`Estel_`	`then, You need User Interface on top of it`
`06:44.19`	`Estel_`	`Nemo is open UI for Mer`
`06:44.21`	`Venemo_N950`	`Sc0rpius, methinks yes`
`06:44.24`	`Sc0rpius`	`hmmm`
`06:44.37`	`Sc0rpius`	`Tizen should embrace Qt`
`06:44.39`	`Estel_`	`so ikf You've heard about someone using Nemo, You've heard about someone using Mer`
`06:44.49`	`Estel_`	`Maybe it will, but IMO tizen is shit`
`06:45.01`	`Venemo_N950`	`well anyway. whatever :)`
`06:45.11`	`Estel_`	`only use of it is that we maybe able to put mer on decent devices released with tizen`
`06:45.20`	`Venemo_N950`	`lol`
`06:45.26`	`Estel_`	`i.e. delete tizen totally and gain device with 1GB of RAM ;)`
`06:45.26`	`*** join/#maemo corburn (~corburn@24-121-174-145.npg.sta.suddenlink.net)`
`06:45.40`	`Sc0rpius`	`Nemo/Mer sounds great`
`06:45.45`	`Venemo_N950`	`Estel_, N9(50) already has 1gb ram`
`06:45.49`	`Sc0rpius`	`I didn't know about it`
`06:45.53`	`Estel_`	`but it isnt produced`
`06:46.01`	`Venemo_N950`	`Sc0rpius, also, they're totally open`
`06:46.03`	`Estel_`	`N9 is also discounted in finland`
`06:46.10`	`Sc0rpius`	`I guess I could do dual boot (with an N900) to test Mer`
`06:46.11`	`Venemo_N950`	`yep`
`06:46.17`	`Estel_`	`yes. Nemo isn't "stable" though`
`06:46.28`	`Venemo_N950`	`Estel_, I was thinking of buying a discounted N9`
`06:46.30`	`Estel_`	`Mer too, but Mer is more "ready" than Nemo`
`06:46.53`	`Estel_`	`Vemeo, for me lack of microSD card slot, keyboard, and capacitive screen is a no-go`
`06:47.02`	`Estel_`	`especially for that price`
`06:47.12`	`Venemo_N950`	`that's what I thought`
`06:47.12`	`Estel_`	`+ build-in battery...`
`06:47.17`	`Estel_`	`damn monoblock`
`06:47.19`	`Estel_`	`etc`
`06:47.24`	`Venemo_N950`	`until the N950 hijacked me`
`06:47.46`	`Venemo_N950`	`i would never touch a resistive screen agaim`
`06:47.53`	`Estel_`	`N900 sill flies circles around N9/N950, honestly`
`06:47.54`	`freemangordon`	`I still cannot get it why FMTX is not implemented.`
`06:48.06`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, same here`
`06:48.13`	`Estel_`	`I forget about it`
`06:48.23`	`Estel_`	`Venemo, try using easy debian on Your capacitive`
`06:48.26`	`eddyb`	`why can't we get the N950 :((?`
`06:48.26`	`freemangordon`	`that is the major stopper for me to even think to replace my N900 as a primary device`
`06:48.26`	`Venemo_N950`	`freemangordon, because the chip isn't wired to an antenna`
`06:48.28`	`Estel_`	`or drawing like mypaint`
`06:48.35`	`Estel_`	`god, I hate capacitive screens`
`06:48.35`	`Sc0rpius`	`because the FM transmitter???`
`06:48.38`	`Estel_`	`so much`
`06:48.39`	`Sc0rpius`	`who uses that? :`
`06:48.40`	`freemangordon`	`Venemo_N950, yes, but why?`
`06:48.46`	`Venemo_N950`	`Estel_, neither are my use cases`
`06:48.50`	`freemangordon`	`Sc0rpius, me`
`06:48.54`	`Sc0rpius`	`what for`
`06:48.57`	`Estel_`	`Sc0rpius, me too`
`06:48.58`	`Venemo_N950`	`freemangordon, because they were stupid?`
`06:49.28`	`Sc0rpius`	`you get better sound using the headphones jack.`
`06:49.50`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, out of curiosity - what stops You now from including 720p recording inside CSSU?`
`06:49.52`	`freemangordon`	`Sc0rpius, I have 2 cars to (one personal and one corporate), plus my GF has a car too. That is the easiest way for me to listen to y music wherever I am`
`06:50.05`	`Estel_`	`Sc0rpius, are You kidding me? It's not related`
`06:50.09`	`Sc0rpius`	`most cars nowadays have receivers with a 3.5 mm input jack on the front`
`06:50.17`	`Sc0rpius`	`(and USB ports too)`
`06:50.24`	`Estel_`	`Sc0rpius, not true, + it needs cables`
`06:50.31`	`freemangordon`	`well, seems I am old-fashioned`
`06:50.31`	`Sc0rpius`	`just one single cable`
`06:50.48`	`Estel_`	`+ what's more joyful than disabling those nasty, shitty music in pizza bar`
`06:50.50`	`Sc0rpius`	`well it's that the FM band here is BLOATED you can't find any empty space so it always sounds bad`
`06:50.54`	`freemangordon`	`not, thats uncomfortable`
`06:51.39`	`freemangordon`	`Sc0rpius, here in Sofia there are two almost free freqs, so it works ok`
`06:51.40`	`Estel_`	`honestly, with little antenna modification, my N900is able to replace FM station with almost no quality loss - of course, locally.`
`06:51.55`	`Sc0rpius`	`but anyway I have a really tiny Sandisk Cruzer Fit USB drive (those that are really tiny) with my music and that works in any car`
`06:52.18`	`Sc0rpius`	`it's better than waste phone battery which I believe is the most precious thing of the world`
`06:52.19`	`Estel_`	`seriously though, fmtx is so cheap and easy to implement by manufacturer`
`06:52.29`	`Estel_`	`Sc0rpius, fear no more`
`06:52.38`	`Estel_`	`I'm working on 6000 mAh battery for N900`
`06:52.42`	`Sc0rpius`	`:D`
`06:52.46`	`Venemo_N950`	`lol`
`06:52.50`	`Estel_`	`with almost no more thickness than mugen cover`
`06:52.52`	`Sc0rpius`	`but that will make it way heavier than it already is :(`
`06:52.57`	`Estel_`	`and I'm serious :P`
`06:53.00`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`06:53.17`	`Estel_`	`frankly, with bigger cover like mugen size I feel it much more comfortable to write`
`06:53.23`	`Venemo_N950`	`Estel_, I'd suffice with far less if you managed to fit into the default cover`
`06:53.39`	`Estel_`	`into deefault cover You may put only 1500`
`06:53.51`	`Estel_`	`but bigger cover is better in every aspect in real life`
`06:54.04`	`Venemo_N950`	`not for me`
`06:54.09`	`Jaffa`	`DocScrutinizer51: belated non-travelling pong`
`06:54.09`	`Estel_`	`got place for nice tripod mounting point = finally can use those RAW images capabilities`
`06:54.24`	`Estel_`	`writing is ungodly fine`
`06:54.36`	`Estel_`	`You can fit slot for regular sized SD card`
`06:54.51`	`Estel_`	`I feel strange holding regular size N900 now`
`06:55.05`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_, how do you think, is it possible to HW mod n950, to conect the anthenna to fmtx chip?`
`06:55.31`	`Venemo_N950`	`freemangordon, forget it`
`06:55.32`	`Estel_`	`No idea, as I haven't checked schematics. If it's done godly way, it should be fair easy`
`06:55.47`	`Estel_`	`but, make it straight - there IS fmtx but NOT connected = non working?`
`06:55.51`	`freemangordon`	`Venemo_N950, why?`
`06:56.48`	`freemangordon`	`is it BGA with floating pin?`
`06:56.53`	`Estel_`	`so why it's sitting there at all: 0_o they've put it there because they had too many parts in storage?`
`06:57.09`	`Estel_`	`maybe it is connected "somewhere"`
`06:57.16`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_, it is a part of multifunc chip`
`06:57.27`	`freemangordon`	`AFAIK`
`06:57.31`	`Estel_`	`I see, but having it there, they haven't connectedd it? seriously?`
`06:57.38`	`freemangordon`	`yep`
`06:57.40`	`Sc0rpius`	`is still thinking about Nemo mobile`
`06:57.47`	`Estel_`	`even implied facepalm is too low here`
`06:58.25`	`Estel_`	`erm, if it's bga and isn't connected to even dead-end path on PCB, we can forget about it`
`06:58.34`	`Estel_`	`it would be like adding more ram to N900 ;)`
`06:58.45`	`freemangordon`	`Sc0rpius, ubuntu 12.04 with lxde goes circles around Nemo, I am speechless`
`06:58.56`	`Estel_`	`but, N900 got hirose connectors, maybe they did something like that`
`06:59.00`	`Estel_`	`or at least unsoldered pad`
`06:59.18`	`freemangordon`	`yep`
`06:59.22`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, You said it's almost ready for daily use?`
`06:59.27`	`Sc0rpius`	`is a XFCE guy`
`06:59.30`	`freemangordon`	`720p?`
`06:59.40`	`Estel_`	`someone tried Lubuntu an d it's reportedly very fast`
`06:59.53`	`Estel_`	`720p "patch" (don"t vomit hearing "patch)`
`06:59.56`	`freemangordon`	`Sc0rpius, does not matter, you just have to remove that piece of crap called unity :)`
`07:00.13`	`Sc0rpius`	`yeah`
`07:00.22`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, explain something to this noob like myself`
`07:00.24`	`Sc0rpius`	`that's the first thing you have to do to have a usable SO`
`07:00.25`	`Sc0rpius`	`OS`
`07:00.35`	`Estel_`	`why using bloated ubuntu, instead of arch linux or debian itself?`
`07:00.52`	`Estel_`	`kernel related thing or what?`
`07:00.58`	`Sc0rpius`	`it's easier and better supported`
`07:01.06`	`freemangordon`	`and is is really fast, I don't know why, but firefox under ubuntu is 3-4 times faster that firefox under maemo (comparing to the last time i tested it)`
`07:01.09`	`Estel_`	`why 12.04 is so unique that it fits`
`07:01.14`	`Sc0rpius`	`I think Debian is getting forgotten (like Slackware and Gentoo) and will disappear.`
`07:01.22`	`Estel_`	`not true.`
`07:01.30`	`Estel_`	`and who said gentoo is forgotten, lol`
`07:01.33`	`Estel_`	`as for Debian`
`07:01.45`	`freemangordon`	`but we are talking about n900`
`07:01.54`	`Estel_`	`it already lived longer than Debora and Ian marriage, so it will probably be here forever`
`07:01.56`	`Estel_`	`yes`
`07:02.04`	`Estel_`	`so, why 12.04 buntu is ok`
`07:02.22`	`Estel_`	`and archilinux that should be faster and AFAIK was also run succesfuly on N900 is not?`
`07:02.52`	`Estel_`	`I just wonder what is so special in 12.04 Ubuntu, if it needs removing bloat, instead of using same kernel but for example arch linux`
`07:03.16`	`freemangordon`	`because uuntu has the same 12.04 with latest greatest shiny stuff as for desktop. And we all expect a mobile with ubuntu on it`
`07:03.18`	`Estel_`	`I'm sure there is reason, thats why I'm asking`
`07:03.44`	`Estel_`	`I see, but the first part of sentence isn't also valid for arch linux?`
`07:03.51`	`Estel_`	`and why the hell ubuntu on mobile?`
`07:03.55`	`freemangordon`	`could be, never tried it`
`07:04.06`	`Estel_`	`ubuntu is almost synonym for bloat here - maybe I'm wrong.`
`07:04.14`	`Sc0rpius`	`not very wrong.`
`07:04.20`	`Sc0rpius`	`it's been bloated lately`
`07:04.29`	`Estel_`	`why the hell not Debian on mobile?`
`07:04.39`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_, it is unity desktop and gnome 3 that is a synonym for bloatware`
`07:04.45`	`Estel_`	`true.`
`07:04.53`	`freemangordon`	`because noone will do it`
`07:05.00`	`Estel_`	`but still, isn't ubuntu dumbed down compared to Debian?`
`07:05.12`	`Sc0rpius`	`I still liku Ubuntu more than Debian`
`07:05.14`	`freemangordon`	`could be`
`07:05.15`	`Sc0rpius`	`like`
`07:05.27`	`Estel_`	`but is it psychological, or some hardware/kernel thing?`
`07:05.46`	`freemangordon`	`never tried debian on n900 besides chroot`
`07:06.10`	`Estel_`	`well, I suppose that Debian with lxde would be faster than ubuntu with lxde but I may be wrong`
`07:06.21`	`Sc0rpius`	`I think it would be the same`
`07:06.25`	`freemangordon`	`there should be no difference`
`07:06.29`	`Sc0rpius`	`exactly`
`07:06.40`	`Estel_`	`now, arch linux with lxde or what should be even less bloated, and I heard that hardwarea acceleration worked fine`
`07:06.45`	`Estel_`	`I see.`
`07:06.59`	`Estel_`	`BTW, while I'm all for runing desktop systems on N900 or mobile at all`
`07:07.13`	`Estel_`	`I think on the longer run, Mer will be more feasible choice`
`07:07.20`	`freemangordon`	`it is unity desktop that bring even my 4 phenom cores desktop on it knees`
`07:07.25`	`Estel_`	`it's always PITA to adapt desktop systems for Mobile daily use`
`07:07.31`	`Estel_`	`lol`
`07:07.38`	`Sc0rpius`	`I'm all for running something else than Maemo but mobile oriented (Tizen, Mer or whatever that works and it's new, I feel my N900 is old :( )`
`07:07.42`	`freemangordon`	`well, joking, but still`
`07:07.59`	`freemangordon`	`Sc0rpius, maemo is old compared to what?`
`07:08.05`	`Estel_`	`Sc0rpius, I would not mind device with 1GB of RAM and Maemo 5 on it :)`
`07:08.10`	`Estel_`	`exactly`
`07:08.20`	`Estel_`	`I feel tizen is old before it's born`
`07:08.22`	`Sc0rpius`	`to the competition: Android, iOS, etc`
`07:08.27`	`freemangordon`	`nah`
`07:08.30`	`Estel_`	`android, dont remind me that shit`
`07:08.36`	`Sc0rpius`	`for example I wanta newer browser (microB)`
`07:08.39`	`Sc0rpius`	`want a`
`07:08.43`	`Estel_`	`lost 3 days brining it to usable state even with help of cyanogen`
`07:08.54`	`Sc0rpius`	`I want a new email client`
`07:08.56`	`Estel_`	`and still it was shitload to do anything with it`
`07:09.07`	`Estel_`	`I persuaded family to sell their androids and buy N900`
`07:09.07`	`Sc0rpius`	`and I don't want to code it all myself`
`07:09.13`	`Sc0rpius`	`I want to code some, but not all`
`07:09.15`	`*** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org)`
`07:09.21`	`freemangordon`	`a friend of mine lost an hour trying to gather all my contacts in one place, with no success`
`07:09.24`	`Estel_`	`well, buy windows phone`
`07:09.31`	`freemangordon`	`that's desire something`
`07:09.34`	`Estel_`	`they ensure that You won't code anything yourelf`
`07:09.52`	`Sc0rpius`	`I like to code my own stuff, that's part of the fun of having a cell phone`
`07:10.13`	`Estel_`	`well, IMO FOSS mean that someone must code it`
`07:10.23`	`Estel_`	`it won't code on it's own... hopefuly?`
`07:10.32`	`freemangordon`	`gtg guys, bb`
`07:10.37`	`Sc0rpius`	`cya freemangordon`
`07:10.38`	`Estel_`	`see ya freemangordon`
`07:10.46`	`Sc0rpius`	`anyway with Mer a door opens`
`07:10.52`	`Sc0rpius`	`an opportunity to have a new browser`
`07:11.00`	`Sc0rpius`	`with full HTML5 for example`
`07:11.07`	`Sc0rpius`	`an opportunity to have a decent email client`
`07:11.09`	`Sc0rpius`	`etc`
`07:11.10`	`Estel_`	`comparing Mer to have a new browser only sounds funny`
`07:11.11`	`Sc0rpius`	`that's what I want`
`07:11.17`	`Venemo_N950`	`Mer is awesome, believe me`
`07:11.19`	`Sc0rpius`	`hehehe I know I'm being simplist`
`07:11.24`	`Sicelo`	`Estel_: i have debian with xfce on my n900`
`07:11.30`	`Venemo_N950`	`only thing it needs is a decent ui`
`07:11.31`	`Estel_`	`well, I want much moe than that ;)`
`07:11.38`	`Estel_`	`Sicelo, hm? not chroot?`
`07:11.46`	`Sicelo`	`of course not :P`
`07:11.51`	`Estel_`	`and what about hardware acceleration, hardware parts etc?`
`07:11.56`	`Venemo_N950`	`lol`
`07:12.03`	`Sc0rpius`	`and what about a phone call :S`
`07:12.09`	`Estel_`	`ophono?`
`07:12.10`	`Sicelo`	`same as ubuntu, lol`
`07:12.25`	`Estel_`	`so what doesn't work compared to Maemo?`
`07:12.47`	`*** join/#maemo maian1107 (~maian1107@2-232-128-52.ip212.fastwebnet.it)`
`07:12.56`	`maian1107`	`salve`
`07:12.59`	`Sicelo`	`http://elinux.org/N900`
`07:13.07`	`Estel_`	`thx`
`07:13.13`	`maian1107`	`buon Di a tt`
`07:14.12`	`Sicelo`	`i'm using nemo's kernel .. most things (that i care about) work. i just wish there was a module for the radio chip :(`
`07:15.12`	`Sc0rpius`	`when weill we have the results of the elections?`
`07:15.13`	`Sc0rpius`	`will`
`07:15.25`	`Sicelo`	`Estel_: that link shows what works when using Debian's upstream kernel.. with Nemo's kernel, you have a bit more of that hardware working`
`07:16.10`	`Estel_`	`I see`
`07:16.31`	`Estel_`	`damn, I remember they suceed in OpenGLES with arch linux, so it should also work with Debian?`
`07:16.55`	`Estel_`	`Sc0rpius, after elections ends`
`07:17.02`	`Estel_`	`it end in 23th may`
`07:17.09`	`Sc0rpius`	`oh ok`
`07:17.11`	`Estel_`	`Sicelo, very interesting`
`07:17.29`	`Estel_`	`it's pity that there are no modules for making it 100% OS replacement, though :)`
`07:18.00`	`Estel_`	`And now You're irc'ing through it, or?`
`07:18.39`	`Sicelo`	`pc.. i boot into Debian now and then. and gprs works`
`07:19.56`	`*** join/#maemo kabtoffe (~kabtoffe@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe79fb00-52.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`07:20.08`	`Sicelo`	`what i don't like about it so far is that i don't seem to be able to control power consumption.. screen on or off still draws at least 150mA`
`07:20.27`	`Estel_`	`I see`
`07:20.36`	`Sicelo`	`perhaps those with ubuntu 12 could show us their consumption`
`07:20.55`	`Estel_`	`well, those are reasons why, on long run, mobile oriented yet fully open OS'es like Mer are better choice for handhelds`
`07:21.05`	`Estel_`	`it's a pita to reimplement wheel all over again`
`07:21.15`	`Estel_`	`if they would only go for .deb instead of rpm...`
`07:21.17`	`Estel_`	`;)`
`07:21.32`	`Estel_`	`it would make 3/4 of maemo repo working out of the box`
`07:21.44`	`Sicelo`	`must still try Nemo ..need an SD card.`
`07:22.10`	`Estel_`	`I wait until it maturates enough to be put on rootfs or emmc without kongo-bongo rituals`
`07:22.51`	`Sicelo`	`btw, u-boot is now able to use a root located in emmc without panics?`
`07:23.07`	`Venemo_N950`	`brb`
`07:23.45`	`Sicelo`	`last time i tried i nearly had to reflash maemo .. because i don't have an sd card, yet. so debian boots of an emmc partition`
`07:25.14`	`*** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@unaffiliated/pali)`
`07:25.18`	`*** join/#maemo kerio (~kerio@unaffiliated/kerio)`
`07:26.08`	`*** join/#maemo Venemo_N950 (~Venemo@fedora/Venemo)`
`07:26.40`	`*** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1)`
`07:28.01`	`Venemo_N950`	`hey again`
`07:28.12`	`*** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.31.157.sysads.com)`
`07:28.31`	`Venemo_N950`	`Estel_, do you know what color of N9s they'll be handing out?`
`07:28.39`	`*** join/#maemo PeterWolf (~peter@118-169-44-14.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`07:28.51`	`*** join/#maemo Termana (Termana@199.127.226.8)`
`07:29.42`	`*** join/#maemo sasquatch (~username@p57958974.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`07:29.58`	`Estel_`	`Sicelo, afaik U-boot moved much forward lately`
`07:30.15`	`Estel_`	`Yet I'm still not sure if it doesn't pose any regressions vs native or multiboot`
`07:30.23`	`Sicelo`	`my post asking about that was not answered`
`07:30.31`	`Estel_`	`Veggen, no idea, haven't though about that :P`
`07:30.58`	`Estel_`	`s/Veggen/Venemo_N950`
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`07:31.28`	`Venemo_N950`	`Estel_, can you arrange for a white one for me?`
`07:35.06`	`Estel_`	`I can't arrange anything ;)`
`07:35.25`	`Estel_`	`but if it would be up to me I would make them available in every color, if it's black.`
`07:36.38`	`Sicelo`	`btw, does unity suck on n900 too? i thought ubuntu marketed it as the perfect thing for mobile`
`07:37.36`	`Sicelo`	`also wonders how 'bloated' KDE's Plasma Active is & how well it would work on N900`
`07:38.43`	`Estel_`	`unity suck indeed`
`07:40.35`	`Sicelo`	`interesting`
`07:41.21`	`Sicelo`	`i've never used ubuntu so far .. but the screenshot on the ubuntu thread looks fine to me`
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`07:47.32`	`eddyb`	`KDE > gCrap`
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`07:49.16`	`eddyb`	`https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb-wb0h5si0 and that's from August last year`
`07:49.31`	`dm8tbr`	`can't be bothered with Krap either`
`07:50.19`	`dm8tbr`	`so people are trying recent ubuntu on the n900? I hope that there is something aside from the armHF version?`
`07:50.35`	`Venemo_N950`	`Estel_, black? :(`
`07:52.08`	`Venemo_N950`	`black is such a sad color.`
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`07:55.34`	`Venemo_N950`	`Sicelo, about your PA question. answer is _very_`
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`09:50.47`	`freemangordon`	`dm8tbr, the Ubuntu we are trying on n900 is armHF-thumb2 compiled, OMAP3 image from Ubuntu site. Why should we need something aside?`
`10:05.35`	`ShadowJK`	`thumb neing broken on the omap3 revision in n900?`
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`11:04.58`	`freemangordon`	`ShadowJK, not anymore, i.e. latest u-boot has a fix for setting IBE bit in ACR allowing errata 430973 workaround in kernel to do its job. Ubuntu is perfectly stable`
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`11:08.26`	`freemangordon`	`ShadowJK, here https://gitorious.org/~freemangordon/u-boot-shr/freemangordons-u-boot/commit/409fec178945067233629a471653361b927c05f0`
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`11:14.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`freemangordon: I beg to differ on your claim "we all expect a mobile with ubuntu on it"`
`11:17.09`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer: nah, you misunderstand me. What I was trying to say is "if there will be a mobile with a full linux distro on it, most probably it will be a mobile with ubuntu". Not that I am holding my breath :)`
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`11:20.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Sicelo: your idea that you'd need a new OS on N900 to get new mail client, browser etc, isn't that a bit incoherent?`
`11:21.32`	`MohammadAG`	`well, Nokia did that with WP7...`
`11:21.55`	`freemangordon`	`MohammadAG, hi :)`
`11:22.05`	`MohammadAG`	`hi`
`11:22.07`	`freemangordon`	`How is your SB? :p`
`11:22.17`	`MohammadAG`	`fine`
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`11:29.57`	`Estel_`	`DocScrutinizer, it was Sc0rpius who wanted new os for new mail client :P`
`11:30.14`	`Estel_`	`anyway, I'm testing irc on 16 kbps connection`
`11:30.24`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ooops, sorry Sicelo`
`11:30.40`	`Estel_`	`only one thing that is working, even mail get choked`
`11:30.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`IRC working fine on a 300bd connection ;-)`
`11:31.26`	`Estel_`	`at least something resisted bloating at base protocol specification`
`11:31.45`	`Estel_`	`but, it's still sad that data plans use so msierable speed after limit`
`11:31.54`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ouch`
`11:31.57`	`DocScrutinizer`	`suckers`
`11:31.58`	`Estel_`	`it could be at least 56 kbps like old modem :P`
`11:32.02`	`Estel_`	`yea`
`11:32.04`	`dm8tbr`	`freemangordon: my understanding is that there are at _least_ _two_ errata for that ARM IP core revision and the fixes are mutually exclusive. if you have knowledge how to work around all of them please share the source as other people would be interested in it too.`
`11:32.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`dm8tbr: I asked him for that as well`
`11:38.01`	`freemangordon`	`dm8tbr, I am sure the first one is 430973 and I explained how it os workarounded just a few lines above.`
`11:38.28`	`freemangordon`	`But please tell me which is the second one you have in mind that affects n900`
`11:39.24`	`freemangordon`	`because AFAIK besides 430973 there are 2, not one errata affecting CortexA8 p0-p2 cores`
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`11:47.02`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer51, dm8tbr: another one is this http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2009-05/msg00343.html and it is workarounded in binutils (as is visible).`
`11:48.12`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, do You think that, in future stage, it may become full replacement, or You expect it to be os with "always lacking funcionalities" compared to Maemo = to boot from time to time, instead of Easy Debian`
`11:48.32`	`Estel_`	`or even as addition to it`
`11:51.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Estel_: what's "it" in here?`
`11:52.11`	`freemangordon`	`and the third erratum I am aware of(and might affect thumb on n900) is 687067: BTB invalidate by MVA operations will not work when the IBE bit is set. Well, we never hit that as we are not using BTB invalidate by MVA to workaround 430973, but invalidate the whole BTB/BTAC.`
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`11:55.34`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer, dm8tbr, my understanding is that by enabling errata 430973 workaround and using binutils with workaround for 657417 is enough to have abslutely stable thumb2 on n900`
`11:56.06`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_, sorry, I am on a different topic now :)`
`11:57.38`	`Estel_`	`DocScrutinizer, ubuntu on N900`
`11:57.52`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, no problem, although I don't get what You mean`
`11:58.10`	`Estel_`	`= I don't care/wanna talk about it?`
`11:58.42`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_, I am discussing n900 and thumb2 in genereal, not Ubuntu`
`11:59.13`	`Estel_`	`I know`
`11:59.40`	`Estel_`	`my question was continuation of topic about ubuntu on n900. Well, kinda mental multitasking ;)`
`12:02.48`	`DocScrutinizer`	`VOTE! http://bit.ly/JmchJM`
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`12:06.07`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_: ok, but as there is a(long standing) dispute between me and some people here if it is posible to have stable thumb2 on n900, I would prefer to end that once and for all. Or to have proof that I am wrong(and stupid :) ).`
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`12:14.00`	`DocScrutinizer`	`freemangordon: there's basically no dispute about whether it's possible, the dispute is about how to prove it's working`
`12:14.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`WFM is no proof`
`12:14.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`WFM*50 still isn't, given the nature of the errata`
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`12:15.56`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer,you want me to prove TI's statement?`
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`12:17.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	`freemangordon: I explained to you already 5 times too often the proper way to do. You need a testbed that's reproducing the error, and on this testbed you apply your fix and show it's effective`
`12:18.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`ideally you trace the whole shit with gdb or whatever, and explain the observations made and what your fix is doing, how that shows up in trace and why it's generally valid and working`
`12:19.01`	`DocScrutinizer`	`or you refer to somebody else's work who already done this`
`12:19.30`	`freemangordon`	`yes, and the testbed is Ubuntu, being thumb2-compiled both kernel and userspace. Without IBE bit properly set (as in latest u-boot) and errata 430973 workaround enabled in kernel it crashes in a matter of seconds`
`12:20.19`	`freemangordon`	`crashes as SIGILL, which is what happens when you try to execute thumb2 instruction in ARM context`
`12:21.05`	`freemangordon`	`with the above stuff enabled, it works for hours without a single crash (until battery dies)`
`12:21.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`without a evaluation considering each single erratum in a monitored bad and fixed run, it's still worthless, as it might just reduce probability of error happening, or even just fix one of the two errata`
`12:21.43`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer, which are those erratas you are reffering to?`
`12:22.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`the ones you're fixing`
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`12:24.00`	`freemangordon`	`so, you want me to prove that errata workarounds, one from TI and another from gurus developing binutils, do what their authors tell us?`
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`12:25.51`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer, BTW i really would like to have a comments from someone besides you, like stskeeps or dm8tbr`
`12:26.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`freemangordon: you're obviously not willing to listen`
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`12:26.43`	`DocScrutinizer`	`[2012-05-18 14:19:00] <DocScrutinizer> or you refer to somebody else's work who already done this`
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`12:31.30`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer, the RX51 code in u-boot for enabling IBE bit is almost identical to the code used for BB. The same for the kernel`
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`12:33.49`	`LaoLang_coo_`	`I find that my N900's phone's signal is not good, is it normal?`
`12:34.43`	`LaoLang_coo_`	`When calling, I can't hear from others clearly sometimes`
`12:34.58`	`freemangordon`	`LaoLang_coo_, increase your volume`
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`12:35.21`	`freemangordon`	`well, not yours but speakers volume`
`12:35.39`	`Macer`	`so`
`12:35.42`	`Macer`	`FB hits 400 today?`
`12:35.44`	`Macer`	`heh`
`12:35.45`	`LaoLang_coo_`	`freemangordon, yes, I've set it to the maximum`
`12:36.01`	`Macer`	`LaoLang_coo_: probably the sim reader going bad :-P`
`12:36.22`	`freemangordon`	`it could be a bad coverage as well`
`12:36.53`	`dm8tbr`	`I've seen thumb2 code run for hours and then suddenly explode. I'm not impressed and would rather see this confirmed by someone who understands this like koen or rcn-ee or mru`
`12:37.23`	`LaoLang_coo_`	`Macer, sim reader? maybe speaker does :)`
`12:38.38`	`freemangordon`	`dm8tbr, where did you see and which code? Was it on n900 or on BB? And I agree this should be confirmed or not by someone who understands the matter, any contacts? IRC channel?`
`12:40.44`	`dm8tbr`	`freemangordon: IIRC I discussed this with koen, rcn-ee and mru back then on #beagle and the bottom line was 'fixes are mutually exclusive, don't use thumb2 on old omap3 silicon'`
`12:41.06`	`dm8tbr`	`irclogs probably exist`
`12:44.09`	`freemangordon`	`dm8tbr, and reading through those logs which you (or stskeeps) pointed me to the last time we dscussed that, lead me to believe, that might be you have made a little mistake re mutualy exclusive workarounds - we never hit 687067`
`12:45.24`	`freemangordon`	`nowhere in kernel is executed "BTB invalidate by MVA" instruction`
`12:46.10`	`freemangordon`	`430973 is workarounded by clearing the whole BTB/BTAC, not by address`
`12:47.04`	`dm8tbr`	`does not understand the underlying details, so it would be better to discuss them wit someone who does`
`12:47.53`	`freemangordon`	`And I will appreciate if you give me some hand on finding those knowledgable ones`
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`12:48.54`	`dm8tbr`	`I pointed out three people and a channel`
`12:49.02`	`freemangordon`	`ok, thanks`
`12:49.34`	`dm8tbr`	`IIRC mru even works for ARM nowadays`
`12:50.13`	`freemangordon`	`great, will try to reach them on #beagle later`
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`13:15.06`	`merlin1991`	`wonders when the "community awards" from the device seeding activity are going to get rolling`
`13:17.50`	`MohammadAG`	`you deserve one really`
`13:18.00`	`freemangordon`	`merlin1991, when there is a new council`
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`13:18.43`	`merlin1991`	`MohammadAG: gotta love how you jump to conclusions :D`
`13:18.54`	`freemangordon`	`It will be up to them to decide who deserves such, so think twice before voting :P`
`13:20.05`	`merlin1991`	`dang I should asked each concil member beforehand "would you give merlin1991 a n950 as a community award" ;)`
`13:21.16`	`freemangordon`	`you already voted? damn, how could you do this before assuring your n950 :P`
`13:21.35`	`MohammadAG`	`N9 ftw`
`13:21.36`	`Macer`	`heh`
`13:21.49`	`Macer`	`does N9 support att LTE?`
`13:22.06`	`freemangordon`	`MohammadAG, no, both N9 and N950, check on mailinglist and TMO threads`
`13:22.48`	`Macer`	`i wonder if the fail rates for N9s and N950s are just as high as an N900`
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`13:25.12`	`MohammadAG`	`freemangordon, I know, I just think the N9's better at taking hits`
`13:25.20`	`MohammadAG`	`it's more sturdy`
`13:25.27`	`MohammadAG`	`sturdier even`
`13:25.54`	`Estel_`	`N950 is better investment`
`13:26.12`	`RST38h`	`Doesn't "investment" mean you can buy it?`
`13:26.13`	`merlin1991`	`Estel_: if you get it for free it's no investment ;)`
`13:26.16`	`Estel_`	`first of all, non-monoblock construction = easier hardware mods`
`13:26.24`	`Estel_`	`2nd, qgil stated it will be owned now, now lend`
`13:26.27`	`Estel_`	`not exactly`
`13:26.34`	`Estel_`	`considering low ammouint of N950`
`13:26.42`	`RST38h`	`N950 is more fragile and a scratch magnet`
`13:26.43`	`MohammadAG`	`Just get a drill and drill NOT FOR SALE on the N9`
`13:26.47`	`Estel_`	`300 if I count correctly`
`13:26.53`	`MohammadAG`	`340 as of now`
`13:27.00`	`Estel_`	`I see`
`13:27.02`	`MohammadAG`	`342 if you count the 3 I got`
`13:27.08`	`merlin1991`	`hrhr`
`13:27.09`	`Estel_`	`it's kinda collector device`
`13:27.12`	`Estel_`	`You can sell it after 10 years`
`13:27.16`	`Estel_`	`on auction, lol`
`13:27.19`	`MohammadAG`	`You can't sell it`
`13:27.33`	`Estel_`	`this time, You can, not that I encourage doing so`
`13:27.34`	`MohammadAG`	`I don't recall the agreement saying Expires in 2021 :p`
`13:27.38`	`merlin1991`	`MohammadAG: qgill state that the ones of the current programm are going to be "owned"`
`13:27.45`	`MohammadAG`	`merlin1991, then they're 40 :p`
`13:27.47`	`Estel_`	`yep.`
`13:27.55`	`merlin1991`	`so ofc you can't sell yours, but the new lucky users might`
`13:27.56`	`Estel_`	`this time no lending`
`13:28.00`	`Estel_`	`even better.`
`13:28.06`	`MohammadAG`	`nanananana, no NOT FOR SALE on the back :p`
`13:28.10`	`Estel_`	`yea.`
`13:28.18`	`Estel_`	`not to mention that I'm sure current "lend" will transfer to "own" too.`
`13:28.24`	`Estel_`	`yea`
`13:28.33`	`MohammadAG`	`kinda doubt it`
`13:28.39`	`Estel_`	`yesterday I purchased nice rare Tori Amos promo single`
`13:28.42`	`MohammadAG`	`not that I care, I still have the 3310`
`13:28.44`	`Estel_`	`with not for sale mark`
`13:28.49`	`Estel_`	`:)`
`13:29.04`	`Estel_`	`anyway, I preffer N950 screen`
`13:29.16`	`Estel_`	`+ there was few other things that I don't recall`
`13:29.20`	`Estel_`	`removable battery for sure`
`13:29.59`	`Estel_`	`N9 got NFC which I don't care for`
`13:29.59`	`Estel_`	`and damn monoblock... and damn pentile screen, hate reading on them`
`13:30.17`	`merlin1991`	`dunno I love the N9 screen`
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`13:30.28`	`Estel_`	`gustas non discutante ;)`
`13:30.43`	`merlin1991`	`and nfc is nice (when I've finsihed my nfc-o-rama application)`
`13:30.49`	`Estel_`	`but technical disadvantages and advantages of pentile are known`
`13:30.54`	`merlin1991`	`but I just hate typing with the on screen keyboard on the console`
`13:31.04`	`Estel_`	`well, obvious con`
`13:31.07`	`merlin1991`	`and thats my #1 activity when I actually develop`
`13:31.17`	`Estel_`	`buy bluetooth one and slider`
`13:31.48`	`Estel_`	`You know what? I still preffer N900. Who invented such device as N9(50) witohut sd card slot?!`
`13:31.48`	`MohammadAG`	`is the Lumia 800 pentile?`
`13:31.54`	`freemangordon`	`who cares`
`13:31.59`	`Estel_`	`MohammadAG, yep.`
`13:32.09`	`MohammadAG`	`then I don't care if it's pentile :p`
`13:32.23`	`freemangordon`	`n950 does not have sdcard slot? WTF?`
`13:32.27`	`Estel_`	`Who havent connected fmtx to antenna? :P`
`13:32.32`	`Estel_`	`BTW`
`13:32.34`	`MohammadAG`	`freemangordon, no`
`13:32.46`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, N9 also lack it`
`13:33.05`	`freemangordon`	`I was aware for N9, but N950?!?`
`13:33.13`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, You're limited to miserable... 16GB, right?`
`13:33.58`	`freemangordon`	`hmm, I am not, right now I have 48 and plan to buy 64 or 128 UHC`
`13:34.08`	`freemangordon`	`UHS`
`13:34.31`	`freemangordon`	`or whatever whas the signiture for those new cards`
`13:34.31`	`Estel_`	`ok, not exactly You`
`13:34.32`	`Estel_`	`I don't plan to do it due to miserable random I/O speeds on SDXC`
`13:34.44`	`Estel_`	`preffering to use class 4 sandisk 8GB`
`13:34.48`	`Estel_`	`and swap there`
`13:34.58`	`Estel_`	`yet I agree that 64 or 128 is great for storage`
`13:35.08`	`freemangordon`	`hmm sandisk 64 GB should be fast even for random access`
`13:35.19`	`Estel_`	`and they're so small, that You can keep backup one inside cover of size like mugen one`
`13:35.37`	`Estel_`	`any benchmarks? I've heard they're like class 6-10 tendency`
`13:35.38`	`freemangordon`	`they have a special "mobile" edition, optimized for randowm writes AFAIK`
`13:35.44`	`Estel_`	`I.e. better sequential`
`13:35.47`	`Estel_`	`worse random`
`13:35.52`	`Estel_`	`I see.`
`13:35.57`	`Estel_`	`good to know`
`13:36.20`	`Estel_`	`BTW N900 FTW, I'm currently moddong mugen cover to fit two 18650 = 6000 mAh of true capacity`
`13:36.33`	`Estel_`	`next thing I'll design it for my alum body replacement`
`13:36.44`	`Estel_`	`It doesn't make it much thicker than mugen cover`
`13:36.48`	`Estel_`	`just few milimeters.`
`13:37.25`	`Estel_`	`In times when most people need to charge device every night at best...`
`13:37.37`	`Estel_`	`it's going to be like perpetum mobile :P`
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`13:37.57`	`Estel_`	`You could fool someone into thinking that it's reclaiming power from kinetic energy of moving`
`13:38.26`	`Estel_`	`No, seriously, my soldering iron is so horny waiting for 3000 mAh 18650's to arrive`
`13:38.58`	`ArkanoiD_`	`haha`
`13:39.02`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, btw are You going to apply for community awards N950?`
`13:39.11`	`ArkanoiD_`	`actually mugen cover is engineering and design disaster`
`13:39.41`	`Estel_`	`actually mugen cover is just first step, I plan to include slot for dual-18650 in full body replacement`
`13:39.58`	`k273`	`Estel_: I'm still waiting for that battery too here`
`13:39.59`	`Estel_`	`BTW I know, I've torn mugen cover apart to include camera slider`
`13:40.04`	`Estel_`	`:)`
`13:40.12`	`RST38h`	`I hope you are making this full body replacement out of mahogany`
`13:40.19`	`Estel_`	`ordered already?`
`13:40.25`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_, yes, I think to apply`
`13:40.27`	`Estel_`	`maho what? ;)`
`13:40.34`	`Estel_`	`good idea, I think.`
`13:40.40`	`Estel_`	`You're getting one for sure`
`13:40.46`	`freemangordon`	`well, lets see`
`13:41.01`	`freemangordon`	`:)`
`13:41.17`	`Estel_`	`:) I hope kp wont stall after that :P`
`13:41.33`	`freemangordon`	`nah, don't worry`
`13:41.39`	`Estel_`	`hey, there is chance that I'll be part of comitee that grant it`
`13:41.49`	`Estel_`	`could do little sabotage`
`13:41.52`	`Estel_`	`(joking)`
`13:41.53`	`freemangordon`	`yes, there is`
`13:42.07`	`merlin1991`	`hm bribing the judges sounds like a plan ;)`
`13:42.12`	`Estel_`	`;)`
`13:42.51`	`freemangordon`	`BTW the only way I can switch to anything but N900 as a praimary device is new device with FMTX`
`13:43.07`	`freemangordon`	`which is nowhere to be seen`
`13:43.12`	`Estel_`	`yea, imagine that "Year 2078, one of few remaining N950's sold by grandsom of famous hacker, "freemangordon" on auction for record sum of..."`
`13:43.22`	`freemangordon`	`:D:D:D`
`13:43.43`	`k273`	`XD`
`13:43.47`	`Estel_`	`"N950, initially produced in quantity of only 340, by soon deceased legendary company Nokia..."`
`13:44.10`	`freemangordon`	`:(`
`13:45.21`	`Estel_`	`"...Nokia, as a company that introduced first mobile phone in the mass market, got huge cult following, and become prime case of decision fail on economy Uni's since then"`
`13:45.23`	`Estel_`	`ok, ok`
`13:45.54`	`Estel_`	`time to go back into present (tense :P)`
`13:46.04`	`merlin1991`	`freemangordon: quick question kernel related, the iptables nat module, is there a switch for it in the kernel config?`
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`13:51.03`	`Estel_`	`merlin1991, aren't You going to try gtting device in coding competition or what?`
`13:51.33`	`Estel_`	`freemangordon, doesn't Your patches to phoneME have QT code inside?`
`13:52.36`	`Estel_`	`Community Awards category is going to have much more candidates than devices :/ While I'm sure You both deserve one, it eliminates other people, also deserving it. Nzot that it's Your fault, but I'm thinking if Your work shouldn't be recognized in different, less crowded area.`
`13:52.43`	`Estel_`	`You can always apply for both`
`13:52.57`	`Estel_`	`there is a rule to get only one N950 by same person, so`
`13:53.17`	`Estel_`	`You don't lose anything, but gain possibility of getting device in less crowded category`
`13:54.08`	`Estel_`	`it would be pity, if all qt-related awards would went to "unserious" joke apps, that are going to be left without further development just after receiving device.`
`13:56.36`	`freemangordon`	`Estel_, TBH i don't really care that much if I will get a device or not, after all if me, merlin1991, Pali and several other does not deserve those devices then I am ok, so be it.`
`13:57.02`	`Estel_`	`the thing is that You all deserve them ;)`
`13:57.02`	`freemangordon`	`And I am not going to "cheat" by applying to a less crowded category, just in case`
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`13:57.15`	`Estel_`	`I mean slightly different thing`
`13:57.28`	`Estel_`	`there are 10 N950 for community awards`
`13:57.32`	`freemangordon`	`I got it`
`13:57.32`	`Estel_`	`and 15 N9`
`13:57.52`	`Estel_`	`I thyink that all those "QT" cateogires are...`
`13:58.08`	`Estel_`	`well, probably shouldn't say this as candidate, but I'm honest no matter what`
`13:58.12`	`Estel_`	`marketing bullshit`
`13:58.33`	`freemangordon`	`so what? if I am not in those 10 or those 25, so be it, really.`
`13:58.55`	`Estel_`	`and considering, that there is total 20 N950 and 30 N9 for 2 QT cateogies, many of them are going to land in hand of random people`
`13:59.01`	`Estel_`	`not deserving it IMO`
`13:59.05`	`Estel_`	`on the other hand`
`13:59.19`	`Estel_`	`You Pali merlin ect are going to dominate community awards :P`
`13:59.51`	`Estel_`	`applying also in less crowded category and receiving device would free "slot" in community awards`
`13:59.57`	`Estel_`	`for other people too.`
`14:00.02`	`Estel_`	`eh, scratch that`
`14:00.09`	`freemangordon`	`I wouldn't leave all the projects I am involved and waste my time developing some shiny crap just for the idea`
`14:00.13`	`Estel_`	`explaining my twisted ideas is too much hassle :P`
`14:00.19`	`Estel_`	`I see`
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`14:00.45`	`Estel_`	`well, I rather though about submitting something that is work in progress just now, but, You're probably right`
`14:01.18`	`Estel_`	`I think I'm already thinking about hard decisions ;)`
`14:01.42`	`Estel_`	`if it would depend on me I would give half of pool to Community Awards`
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`14:01.54`	`Estel_`	`after all it's first time we're going to have something like that`
`14:01.54`	`freemangordon`	`BTW DavyP is most probably eligable as a candidate for Qt categories, his frontend is all Qt`
`14:02.03`	`Estel_`	`coding competition is here every year`
`14:02.13`	`Estel_`	`we need to tell him about it, I'll do it.`
`14:02.18`	`freemangordon`	`yeah`
`14:02.21`	`freemangordon`	`good idea`
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`14:09.22`	`Estel_`	`btw are schematics for N950/N9 available just like for N900?`
`14:09.42`	`Estel_`	`someone already dissasembled N950 and did hi-res photos like DocScrutinizer with N900?`
`14:10.05`	`Estel_`	`I would like to trace the fmtx issue`
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`14:13.57`	`Estel_`	`hey, who from cssu team worked on tv applet?`
`14:14.09`	`merlin1991`	`mostly pali afaik`
`14:14.37`	`Estel_`	`I have some idea, that came to my mind ages ago, and I always forget to ask. It's related to N900 audio jack resistance meter, not tv out directly`
`14:14.49`	`Estel_`	`merlin1991, maybe You know how it works exacdtly, not only Pali?`
`14:15.09`	`Estel_`	`IIUC, it's like resistance ~0 = headphones`
`14:15.18`	`Estel_`	`(between 4th pin and mass)`
`14:15.34`	`Estel_`	`resistance infinite = microphone`
`14:15.35`	`merlin1991`	`hal abstracts that away for us`
`14:15.49`	`Estel_`	`reistance ~ 75 ohm = tv-out`
`14:15.50`	`Estel_`	`hm`
`14:15.58`	`Estel_`	`so, it's no way to get readings?`
`14:16.18`	`Estel_`	`I just wonder if it's possible to get exact value detected`
`14:16.45`	`merlin1991`	`better ask pali`
`14:16.49`	`merlin1991`	`I only know the top level part :D`
`14:16.56`	`Estel_`	`it would allow us to write very simple program, that "mimics" one function of multimeter`
`14:17.00`	`Estel_`	`reistance meter :P`
`14:17.06`	`Estel_`	`ok`
`14:17.13`	`Estel_`	`thank, I'll catch him`
`14:17.46`	`Estel_`	`useful for testing broken connections etc. Require only simple add-on - modified cable from old headphones :P`
`14:17.56`	`Estel_`	`as a sense probes`
`14:18.33`	`Estel_`	`would allow to test resistance, test broken connection (sound beeping when resistance less than 5 ohm) and testing diodes`
`14:18.36`	`jaska`	`use it to add a three-state input device!`
`14:18.45`	`jaska`	`or can it measure arbitrary resistance?`
`14:18.59`	`Estel_`	`I think it can, thats why I'm asking`
`14:19.28`	`Estel_`	`but if hal hides it, it's at least possible to make beeping probe for "connect" (resistance close to 0)`
`14:19.38`	`Estel_`	`or not connected, or 75 ohm ;)`
`14:19.52`	`Estel_`	`still usefull for testing cables for breakage and diodes`
`14:20.02`	`Estel_`	`but of course, direct ohm values would be better`
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`14:20.35`	`Estel_`	`if it know 75 ohm reistance I bet it senses it abstract values in quite wide range`
`14:20.47`	`Estel_`	`but hal may be hiding it, who knows. Need to ask pali`
`14:21.36`	`Estel_`	`anyway, supercool to probe elements via strange cable with jack @ one end connected to N900`
`14:21.45`	`Estel_`	`and two "nails" on opposite side`
`14:21.58`	`Estel_`	`like in multimeter`
`14:22.28`	`Estel_`	`well, a ohm meter that You always have with Yourself :P`
`14:22.36`	`Estel_`	`mcgyver would be envy`
`14:23.24`	`Estel_`	`next step - mini soldering iron powered from N900's battery :P`
`14:23.57`	`Estel_`	`+ robotic arm and programs to allow N900 solder down it's own usb port`
`14:24.28`	`Estel_`	`after installation, it dissasembles itself, reinforce usb port like in tmo instructions`
`14:24.33`	`freemangordon`	`merlin1991, will you rephrase your question re nat, what switch are you looking for?`
`14:24.39`	`Estel_`	`be sure to have battery fully charged before installation :P`
`14:25.17`	`merlin1991`	`freemangordon: there's an iptables module for the nat table, and I was wondering if there exists a config switch to build it or not`
`14:26.12`	`freemangordon`	`merlin1991, there should be one, yes, which kernel you have in mind`
`14:26.28`	`merlin1991`	`actually harmattan kernel :D`
`14:26.33`	`merlin1991`	`and I couldn't find one :/`
`14:26.40`	`freemangordon`	`CONFIG_NF_NAT=m`
`14:26.54`	`freemangordon`	`CONFIG_IP_NF_MANGLE=m`
`14:27.00`	`freemangordon`	`that is from KP50`
`14:27.11`	`freemangordon`	`but should be the same on harmattan kernel`
`14:27.14`	`merlin1991`	`looks into harm kernel sources`
`14:27.43`	`freemangordon`	`merlin1991, you already have n950 :P`
`14:27.51`	`freemangordon`	`?`
`14:28.21`	`merlin1991`	`nope`
`14:28.22`	`merlin1991`	`n9`
`14:28.46`	`merlin1991`	`but I want a n950 (I want a physical keyboard)`
`14:29.29`	`freemangordon`	`so, are those swithces in RMXXX_defconfig? or whatever RX/M is N9 code`
`14:30.28`	`merlin1991`	`still booting dev notebook ;)`
`14:31.25`	`freemangordon`	`aah, ok. merlin1991, I am leaving my office on my way home, won't be available next hour or so.`
`14:31.36`	`freemangordon`	`bb for now`
`14:32.38`	`merlin1991`	`CONFIG_IP_NF_MANGLE is disabled`
`14:32.45`	`merlin1991`	`and CONFIG_NF_NAT does not exist`
`14:32.46`	`merlin1991`	`dang`
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`14:57.03`	`HRH_H_Crab`	`crikey whichever of you lot does the open media player - noone can accuse you of letting the grass grow under your feet!`
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`15:04.55`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Estel_: (someone already dissasembled N950) not afaik`
`15:05.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`might do it today, this weekend, or next year ;-D`
`15:05.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`tbh I'm a bit reluctant cause we definitely can't replace broken N950`
`15:06.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`and it's a loaner after all`
`15:08.33`	`DocScrutinizer`	`it gave me nausea and a broken flat plastic ribbon connector when I completely disassembled the mainboard halv of N900. It might kill me to do same with a device that's - by mere math - ~3 mio USD / device`
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`15:09.31`	`DocScrutinizer`	`(a funny little math trick, dividing maemo R&D total costs by number of deployed N950)`
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`15:19.58`	`* topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ -- N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! \| http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council VOTE!** http://bit.ly/JmchJM \| Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources \| Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog`
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`16:41.01`	`felipec`	`anybody knows how to enable usb tethering from the command line? (no NetworkManager)`
`16:43.22`	`freemangordon`	`modprobe g_ether`
`16:43.28`	`freemangordon`	`ifup usb0`
`16:43.42`	`freemangordon`	`iptables ...`
`16:43.53`	`freemangordon`	`felipec ^^^`
`16:45.52`	`felipec`	`freemangordon: you mean modprobe g_ether on the device?`
`16:46.53`	`freemangordon`	`yep`
`16:47.02`	`felipec`	`how does NetworkManager does it? iptables?`
`16:47.28`	`freemangordon`	`maybe you should do rmmod g_file_storage or g_nokia before modprobing`
`16:47.41`	`felipec`	`freemangordon: 'Sync and connect' (on the N9) does that`
`16:47.42`	`freemangordon`	`NetworkManager? hmm, which device is that?`
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`16:48.21`	`felipec`	`freemangordon: http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/`
`16:48.28`	`freemangordon`	`but for sure it is done with iptables on the host machine afaik`
`16:48.50`	`felipec`	`hmm, I don't even have iptables here`
`16:49.31`	`freemangordon`	`aah, there is a kernel module, give me a second to find his name`
`16:49.38`	`freemangordon`	`*its`
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`16:49.59`	`felipec`	`freemangordon: I know how to use iptables, I just don't think it's needed`
`16:50.38`	`felipec`	`I guess I'll install networkmanager and see what it does`
`16:51.14`	`freemangordon`	`maybe it uses joikuspot`
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`16:51.51`	`ioan`	`hi. A while ago I had something installed on my N900 that made google maps open in full screen and with GPS support... I had to load a fresh firmware and I lost that setting and now I don't know what it was... anyone knows what I'm talking about?`
`16:52.02`	`felipec`	`freemangordon: no, that needs to be manually launched from the device`
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`16:54.39`	`freemangordon`	`felipec, what about /network/interfaces`
`16:54.51`	`freemangordon`	`make usb0 autostart with a static ip`
`16:55.41`	`freemangordon`	`sorry , i mean /etc/network/interfaces`
`16:55.59`	`felipec`	`freemangordon: I can use usb0, just not to share the Internet`
`16:59.40`	`r00t\|home`	`felipec: i set up sharing the internet connetion via bluetooth on my n900...`
`17:01.19`	`merlin1991`	felipe`: I have a script for that on my n900
`17:01.22`	`merlin1991`	`let me dig it up`
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`17:09.06`	`merlin1991`	felipe`: http://paste.debian.net/169441/
`17:11.25`	`merlin1991`	felipe`: and this to stop everything that was running http://paste.debian.net/169442/
`17:12.22`	`freemangordon`	`merlin1991, it is felipec :p`
`17:12.31`	`merlin1991`	`dang autocomplete`
`17:12.35`	`merlin1991`	`felipec: see above :D`
`17:12.39`	`r00t\|home`	`<-- felipec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)`
`17:12.45`	`r00t\|home`	`ah, he's back`
`17:12.48`	`merlin1991`	`yep`
`17:13.13`	`r00t\|home`	`felipec: i have a script to set up sharing the internet connetion via bluetooth on my n900...`
`17:14.12`	`merlin1991`	`still loves the fact that his script does everything, including a dhcp server`
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`17:14.41`	`felipec`	`r00t\|home: AFAICS the N9 already has dhcp server`
`17:15.11`	`merlin1991`	`felipec: above script is for the n900, won't work on n9 due to missing iptables`
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`17:17.53`	`freemangordon`	`hates the fact that lots of people say "thumb2 is broken on n900, you can't workaround that", but actually noone gives him even a bit of information`
`17:21.12`	`*** part/#maemo felipec (~felipec@ip-109-43-0-26.web.vodafone.de)`
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`17:23.14`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer, did you read the latest logs on #beagle?`
`17:23.25`	`*** join/#maemo doc\|home (~doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007)`
`17:31.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`nope`
`17:32.04`	`DocScrutinizer`	`freemangordon: please point me to some log`
`17:33.24`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer, NFC how to do it, but a sort of "conversation" starts with "[19:30] <freemangordon> Hi there."`
`17:34.06`	`freemangordon`	`I asked, as I saw you joining`
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`17:46.10`	`Neutron_`	`hello, I installed easy debian some time ago, and it is asking me for a root password, I can't remember having added one myself`
`17:46.28`	`Neutron_`	`I am not 100% sure which build I am using.. any suggestions?`
`17:47.41`	`DocScrutinizer`	`freemangordon: http://www.google.de/search?q=<freemangordon>+Hi+there sure thing`
`17:56.54`	`freemangordon`	`DocScrutinizer, here http://pastebin.com/WSvGDZXk`
`18:02.43`	`MrPingu`	`Neutron_ your default ssh password, probably?`
`18:06.03`	`Neutron_`	`MrPingu: I never set one, maybe Qole set one for the image`
`18:06.39`	`freemangordon`	`Neutron_, your root password under Maemo`
`18:07.05`	`freemangordon`	`i.e. the one you use to connect to device via ssh`
`18:17.42`	`Neutron_`	`ah I don't have such a thing, I just do "sudo gainroot" and it gives me root access without password`
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`18:26.27`	`MrPingu`	`Strange, it shouldn't have a password? I still use an older image though`
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`19:19.16`	`vi__`	`freemangordon:`
`19:19.37`	`vi__`	`freemangordon: good evening sir, may I use 0 minutes of your time?`
`19:19.44`	`freemangordon`	`sure`
`19:20.01`	`freemangordon`	`BTW why the hell everyone is calling me sir?`
`19:20.07`	`*** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@200.49.191.32)`
`19:20.17`	`freemangordon`	`vi__ ^^^`
`19:21.19`	`vi__`	`lols`
`19:21.43`	`vi__`	`I was just using an edwardian gentleman angle`
`19:21.53`	`vi__`	`as for everyone else NFC`
`19:21.58`	`freemangordon`	`:D`
`19:22.09`	`vi__`	`I can address you as fuck face if you wish?`
`19:22.18`	`freemangordon`	`nah, sir is better`
`19:23.23`	`freemangordon`	`vi__: so, what is your question?`
`19:23.33`	`vi__`	`actually, my friend has just bought me a single malt whisky. I may be some moments.`
`19:23.54`	`vi__`	`Excuse me if you will good sir, I may take my leave.`
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`20:51.55`	`spark666`	`its there a way to make flash work on opera?or it works just in default maemo browser?`
`20:52.05`	`*** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox)`
`21:08.59`	`*** join/#maemo hurbu__ (~hurbanza@81-174-24-112.dynamic.ngi.it)`
`21:15.32`	`MrPingu`	`Spark666 , I don't think so`
`21:16.03`	`spark666`	`MrPingu: :(`
`21:16.23`	`spark666`	`opera its more fast and touchscreen made for :P`
`21:16.55`	`*** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-62-10-89-90.clienti.tiscali.it)`
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`21:18.46`	`MrPingu`	`It's totally optimized for mobile devices, for sure`
`21:20.14`	`spark666`	`maybe one day the community will port the flash to opera :P`
`21:22.39`	`Sicelo`	`not impossible, but highly improbable`
`21:22.56`	`MrPingu`	`Let's hope for it ;)`
`21:23.43`	`spark666`	`:D`
`21:24.27`	`MrPingu`	`Been playing with xbindkeys and I have some nice keyboard shortcuts now :D`
`21:25.19`	`spark666`	`tell us about it :P`
`21:26.35`	`MrPingu`	`I installed app-search-app and binded it to Shift + Fn + Up arrow`
`21:27.08`	`MrPingu`	`when I press that combination I get a pop up list with app selector ;)`
`21:27.46`	`spark666`	`very nice`
`21:28.17`	`spark666`	`where should i write the aliases in ash?`
`21:28.38`	`MrPingu`	`lemme search...`
`21:28.42`	`*** join/#maemo piggz__ (~piggz@host-92-18-178-238.as13285.net)`
`21:29.03`	`MrPingu`	`I have modified it a bit...`
`21:29.51`	`MrPingu`	`Isn't it .profile file?`
`21:33.19`	`spark666`	`i have no idea,i know in bash its in .bashrc`
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`21:37.21`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`21:37.51`	`MrPingu`	`ah bad internet again =(`
`21:38.12`	`MrPingu`	`for user it's .profile`
`21:38.17`	`MrPingu`	`for root it's .bashr`
`21:38.30`	`MrPingu`	`* .bashrc`
`21:38.52`	`MrPingu`	`I had to create .profile in /home/user/`
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`21:39.11`	`spark666`	`tnx very much :D`
`21:39.45`	`MrPingu`	`You can also change your PS1 to your own likings ;)`
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`21:40.02`	`spark666`	`im trying to get rid of the ash prompt`
`21:40.17`	`MrPingu`	`What do you mean?`
`21:40.42`	`MrPingu`	`That busybox blabla?`
`21:40.47`	`Hurrian`	`use bash`
`21:40.54`	`spark666`	`BusyBox v1.20.0 (Debian 1.20.0power1) built-in shell (ash)`
`21:41.15`	`spark666`	`enter help ...`
`21:41.33`	`spark666`	`yes that one`
`21:41.34`	`Hurrian`	`sudo apt-get install bash4`
`21:41.44`	`MrPingu`	`Why not bash3?`
`21:41.44`	`Hurrian`	`ln -s /bin/bash4 /bin/bash`
`21:42.11`	`MrPingu`	`Bash3 can even replace busybox`
`21:42.31`	`MrPingu`	`by runing bash-setup`
`21:42.42`	`spark666`	`dunno what to say`
`21:43.04`	`MrPingu`	`It was meant for Hurrian ;)`
`21:43.13`	`Hurrian`	`MrPingu, replace busybox as in replace all users' shell?`
`21:43.27`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MrPingu: yes, and it can eat you rcat`
`21:43.28`	`Hurrian`	`remove busybox and use coreutils?`
`21:43.31`	`spark666`	`afaik bash can replace only for root`
`21:43.56`	`MrPingu`	`It can replace user and root`
`21:44.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yes, as it will make device bootloop if you do that for user: user`
`21:44.16`	`MrPingu`	`but right now I have only busybox installed`
`21:44.39`	`DocScrutinizer`	`at least that's the tale`
`21:44.44`	`Hurrian`	`DocScrutinizer, /bin/bash as shell works fine for root and user`
`21:44.51`	`MrPingu`	`Docscrutinizer I replaced it for users also for some time`
`21:44.58`	`Hurrian`	`not trying anything else at the moment`
`21:45.00`	`MrPingu`	`No bootloop`
`21:45.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`as long as all your coreutils in fact are still busybox, yes`
`21:45.09`	`spark666`	`i installed enchanced busybox`
`21:45.25`	`MrPingu`	`When you link to gnu-coreutils`
`21:45.31`	`MrPingu`	`well then the fun is on`
`21:46.13`	`MrPingu`	`I miss the !! function of bash, actually`
`21:46.43`	`Hurrian`	`MrPingu, I think another problem is the coreutils being on /opt`
`21:47.43`	`MrPingu`	`What will happen if we overwrite them in NAND?`
`21:48.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Hurrian: o.O ??`
`21:49.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Hurrian: actually, you might have a point there`
`21:49.48`	`MrPingu`	`Who got the ballz to test that point? :P`
`21:49.59`	`DocScrutinizer`	`what for?`
`21:50.15`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~ # bash`
`21:50.17`	`DocScrutinizer`	`IroN900:~# which ls`
`21:50.18`	`DocScrutinizer`	`/usr/bin/gnu/ls`
`21:50.20`	`DocScrutinizer`	IroN900:~# ls -l `which ls`
`21:50.21`	`DocScrutinizer`	`lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 2010-07-26 23:57 /usr/bin/gnu/ls -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/ls`
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`21:51.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`~jrtools`
`21:51.03`	`infobot`	`somebody said jrtools was http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools`
`21:53.29`	`Sicelo`	`i'm playing around with wifi PSM .. anyone can suggest nice values for Beacon interval on the AP to avoid excessive lag with max PSM on N900?`
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`21:56.19`	`DocScrutinizer`	`beacon interval is vastly irrelevant`
`21:56.44`	`DocScrutinizer`	`everything from 20/s to 2s/beacon will work`
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`21:57.06`	`Sicelo`	`which setting should i tweak then?`
`21:57.14`	`DocScrutinizer`	`probably 2/s is just fine`
`21:57.21`	`Sicelo`	`besides getting a better routter, of course? :P`
`22:01.58`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Sicelo: there's one parameter that defines timespan between "meeting points" where both devices are supposed to awake and listen if sth is going on`
`22:02.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`that's just one parameter, and I can't recall the name, for the life of mine`
`22:03.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`if however your AP doesn't play nice with N900 implementation of PSM, you're busted`
`22:03.12`	`DocScrutinizer`	`nothing to tweak then`
`22:04.04`	`*** join/#maemo MrPingu (~MrPingu@86.92.226.97)`
`22:04.20`	`MrPingu`	`wtf, my wifi of n900 crashed?`
`22:05.01`	`Sicelo`	`guess i am.. this AP has setting for Fragmentation Threshold, RTS Threshold, and Beacon Interval (which defaults at 100)`
`22:05.52`	`MrPingu`	`Beacon interval, is only used for probing isn't it?`
`22:07.30`	`DocScrutinizer`	`yep`
`22:08.06`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Sicelo: DTIM interval`
`22:08.25`	`DocScrutinizer`	`default 1`
`22:09.03`	`DocScrutinizer`	`beacon interval is in ms, 100 means 10 beacons/s`
`22:09.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`which is just fine`
`22:09.35`	`DocScrutinizer`	`5 would suffice as well`
`22:10.53`	`DocScrutinizer`	`Sicelo: iirc there are like 5 flavours of PSM implementations, at least`
`22:11.47`	`MrPingu`	`I am looking for that value that you mean, it's some kind of "ping" setting`
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`22:12.31`	`Sicelo`	`gives up.. no DTIM setting here`
`22:12.45`	`MrPingu`	`+ for mobile devices you should make the timeouts a bit longer for better results`
`22:14.10`	`DocScrutinizer`	`http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Advanced_wireless_settings#DTIM_Interval`
`22:14.46`	`MrPingu`	`http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Advanced_wireless_settings`
`22:14.52`	`MrPingu`	`got be kidding`
`22:15.17`	`MrPingu`	`Did I read your mind or you mine? :p`
`22:18.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`here's probably where doom starts: >>Since beacon frames are sent using the mandatory 802.11 carrier sense multiple access/collision detection (CSMA/CD) algorithm, the access point must wait if a client device is sending a frame when the beacon is to be sent. As a result, the actual time between beacons may be longer than the beacon interval. Client devices that awaken from power-save mode may find that they have to wait longer than`
`22:18.07`	`DocScrutinizer`	`expected to receive the next beacon frame. Client devices, however, compensate for this inaccuracy by utilizing the time-stamp found within the beacon frame.<<`
`22:21.01`	`*** join/#maemo SiceloN900 (~Abe@41.215.145.1)`
`22:21.34`	`*** join/#maemo retro\|cz (~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz)`
`22:23.09`	`DocScrutinizer`	`MrPPS: look at timestamp and detal of both URL psts, then guess ;-D`
`22:23.23`	`DocScrutinizer`	`wtf`
`22:26.05`	`SiceloN900`	`test`
`22:28.35`	`*** join/#maemo SiceloN900 (~Abe@41.215.145.1)`
`22:29.15`	`SiceloN900`	`looks like i can only use Intermediate PSM on this particular Ap`
`22:29.45`	`*** join/#maemo SiceloN900 (~Abe@unaffiliated/sicelo)`
`22:50.57`	`*** join/#maemo PeterWolf (~peter@114-44-229-222.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`22:51.21`	`*** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`22:53.49`	`*** join/#maemo Atarii (~Atarii@unaffiliated/atarii)`
`22:55.41`	`*** join/#maemo vbenes (~vbenes@ip-89-176-188-12.net.upcbroadband.cz)`
`23:00.02`	`*** join/#maemo Neutron__ (~Neutron@80.202.83.120)`
`23:16.16`	`*** join/#maemo Neutron__ (~Neutron@120.80-202-83.nextgentel.com)`
`23:16.40`	`*** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@202.84-48-230.nextgentel.com)`
`23:17.17`	`*** join/#maemo Neutron_ (~Neutron@80.202.83.120)`
`23:19.24`	`*** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@80.202.83.120)`
`23:27.29`	`DocScrutinizer`	`not unusual`
`23:28.10`	`Vib3`	`yo`
`23:28.12`	`Vib3`	`is what`
`23:28.33`	`Vib3`	`sup Doc`
`23:28.41`	`*** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@79.132.236.133)`
`23:28.54`	`Vib3`	`too late to go to bar cos it closes in 1h`
`23:29.00`	`Vib3`	`damn`
`23:29.06`	`Vib3`	`started drinking again too l8`
`23:43.25`	`*** join/#maemo beford (~fernando@186.154.173.17)`
`23:43.27`	`*** join/#maemo beford (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford)`
`23:43.36`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`23:58.13`	`DocScrutinizer`	`sounds like Frankfurt`
`23:59.02`	`DocScrutinizer`	`though, not really`

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