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| 01:13.31 | FIQ | foo |
| 01:13.41 | FIQ | s/oo/&a/ |
| 01:13.48 | FIQ | oh well |
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| 02:27.03 | bjv | is there some trick that must be done to get MicroB to request an html cache manifest? |
| 02:28.02 | bjv | i visit http://starkravingfinkle.org/projects/offline/todo.html in microB, i am able to connect to a no-internet network and successfully use mr. finkle's js demo offline |
| 02:28.45 | bjv | if i download his .zip and host the same demo myself, my server does not receive a GET request for todo.manifest from microB |
| 02:31.39 | bjv | if i request the same locally hosted demo from Opera mobile 10, the server _does correctly register the GET request's for todo.manifest |
| 02:32.23 | bjv | anyone have experience with html5 and any tricks necessary to get microB to play nice with your host? |
| 02:33.00 | bjv | i have no better luck with a minimal document: <html manifest="test.manifest"><h1>Hello World!</h1></html> |
| 02:34.29 | bjv | and a 3 line manifest |
| 02:34.33 | bjv | CACHE MANIFEST |
| 02:34.35 | bjv | # v1 |
| 02:34.37 | bjv | test.html |
| 02:47.16 | DocScrutinizer | YAAAAWN |
| 02:47.25 | DocScrutinizer | **VOTE!** http://bit.ly/JmchJM |
| 02:47.30 | DocScrutinizer | check your mail |
| 02:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | wishes good luck to the 7 candidates and hands out two lollies for the two who won't make it |
| 02:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | my condolences current council wasn't even capable to give the other five of next council a proper legitimate start |
| 02:56.05 | DocScrutinizer | shame on you, current council |
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| 03:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | or shame on those consultants whol failed to explain to you what's the actual duties you took when accepting your election for council members |
| 03:05.39 | DocScrutinizer | idly wonders who might be those consultants |
| 03:06.55 | robbiethe1st | votes DocS for council |
| 03:07.07 | DocScrutinizer | to late :-P |
| 03:07.13 | DocScrutinizer | too* |
| 03:07.55 | DocScrutinizer | hi robbiethe1st |
| 03:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | you been rare, last few weeks |
| 03:11.49 | ieatlint | bah, voting is for losers |
| 03:12.27 | ieatlint | civilization has classically thrived through authoritarian regimes |
| 03:13.00 | ieatlint | and it won't let me write "stephen elop" in for the council election :( |
| 03:19.11 | robbiethe1st | Weeks? Last few months more like |
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| 04:12.35 | DocScrutinizer | so welcome back then? :-D |
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| 04:33.40 | DocScrutinizer | [general notice] voting for council election opened! Check your email! You should already have received your ballot (if you're eligible to vote, see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process ) |
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| 04:35.33 | DocScrutinizer | also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1/2_2012 and http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2012/Candidate_declarations |
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| 04:38.59 | DocScrutinizer | if you think you're eligible to vote for council, and you're missing the mail with your ballot, please IMMEDIATELY contact X-Fade (user in this channel) aka Niels Breet |
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| 04:56.06 | Sc0rpius | I got the mail |
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| 05:01.14 | ieatlint | is there a good voting guide here? |
| 05:01.23 | DocScrutinizer | no |
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| 05:03.04 | ieatlint | there, i voted |
| 05:03.18 | ieatlint | twice today now... voted in gov elections earlier |
| 05:05.55 | DocScrutinizer | in my book I got "none of the candidates shows up on IRC regularly, as supposed by http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Get_in_contact" |
| 05:07.06 | ieatlint | yeah, i voted for the names i recognized |
| 05:09.05 | DocScrutinizer | given the purpose of council primarily is to "know about what's going on in community", I don't think any of the candidates is currently in a position to deliver on this duty, since all (mostly) ignore this channel |
| 05:10.55 | ieatlint | i'm barely in here really anymore myself :/ |
| 05:11.06 | ieatlint | this employment thing is oddly time consuming |
| 05:12.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen ivgalvez |
| 05:12.22 | infobot | ivgalvez <598c718a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.140.113.138> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 4d 18h 14m 13s ago, saying: 'amiconn: It's nice for gaming'. |
| 05:12.39 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen estel |
| 05:12.40 | infobot | i haven't seen 'estel', DocScrutinizer |
| 05:13.07 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen jcharpak |
| 05:13.07 | infobot | jcharpak <~jcharpak@c-71-232-30-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 285d 23h 31m 20s ago, saying: 'good luck'. |
| 05:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen woody14619 |
| 05:13.25 | infobot | i haven't seen 'woody14619', DocScrutinizer |
| 05:13.37 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen Aries |
| 05:13.37 | infobot | aries <~aries@60.176.171.109> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 490d 18h 9m 4s ago, saying: ':)'. |
| 05:13.49 | Sc0rpius | isn't Arie ? |
| 05:13.50 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen NielDK |
| 05:13.50 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: i haven't seen 'nieldk' |
| 05:13.58 | ieatlint | oh god, it's been that long since aries was around? |
| 05:14.10 | Sc0rpius | ~seen Arie |
| 05:14.10 | infobot | arie <~Arie@static-70-108-251-9.res.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 1d 9h 52m 44s ago, saying: 'i'm gonna go guys thank you for the informative talk'. |
| 05:14.15 | Sc0rpius | that's yout guy |
| 05:14.17 | Sc0rpius | your |
| 05:14.18 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen SD69 |
| 05:14.18 | infobot | sd69 <ae64f0d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.100.240.216> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 14h 30m 58s ago, saying: 'any thoughts on cOBS from cssu pov?'. |
| 05:14.24 | Sc0rpius | I was going to vote for him |
| 05:14.29 | ieatlint | ah, that makes a lot more sense... i thought i'd seem him recently |
| 05:14.56 | Sc0rpius | but then lazyness came |
| 05:15.00 | ieatlint | as i recall, voting in this election is strongly encouraged to give a good showing |
| 05:15.03 | Sc0rpius | I'm pretty sure he's gonna win anyway |
| 05:15.14 | ieatlint | the turnout is as important as the result |
| 05:15.37 | DocScrutinizer | where's the link from aries to Arie? |
| 05:15.48 | ieatlint | hard to claim a council represents a community unless the community comes out to vote |
| 05:18.24 | Sc0rpius | 18<Arie> freemangordon: I'm no good in that, have the N9 in my hand at work, I'm more interested in listening since I'm running for the council, I want to be aware and helpful to the maemo community if I get elected. |
| 05:18.31 | Sc0rpius | that was during the cssu meeting |
| 05:18.35 | Sc0rpius | and you were there :S |
| 05:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 05:19.03 | Sc0rpius | you didn't read it :( so he says he's running for the council, so he's the guy right |
| 05:19.08 | DocScrutinizer | is Arie stating there he's aries aka Arie Mark ? |
| 05:19.31 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, I didn't read |
| 05:19.54 | DocScrutinizer | and I can't recall when he last time showed up *here* in *this* channel |
| 05:20.00 | Sc0rpius | I think he is |
| 05:20.08 | Sc0rpius | no, I haven't seen him in this channel either. |
| 05:20.18 | Sc0rpius | just in #maemo-ssu and actually, just today. |
| 05:20.27 | Sc0rpius | or yesterday for some people |
| 05:20.58 | DocScrutinizer | >>Finally, Council members are usually present over IRC at freenode.net/maemo and are always happy to chat with you.<< |
| 05:21.18 | DocScrutinizer | (from http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Get_in_contact ) |
| 05:21.20 | Sc0rpius | they never come |
| 05:21.59 | ieatlint | i should clearly have run |
| 05:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | so neither current council nor any candidate of future council is a true representative of the IRC part of community |
| 05:22.39 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: indeed, I'd happily vote for you |
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| 05:22.55 | ieatlint | i've a history of doing well by running on a platform of embezzlement and bribery.. does the council have any such opportunities? |
| 05:23.39 | Sc0rpius | yeah |
| 05:23.50 | ieatlint | then damn... next time perhaps |
| 05:23.53 | Sc0rpius | but when Jaffa was the council it was great |
| 05:24.04 | Sc0rpius | or GeneralAntilles |
| 05:24.14 | Sc0rpius | but those times will never return |
| 05:24.34 | ieatlint | or when nokia had employees working on it.. |
| 05:24.57 | DocScrutinizer | nokia employees in council??? |
| 05:25.10 | DocScrutinizer | hardly |
| 05:25.15 | ieatlint | no, i mean in maemo |
| 05:27.13 | Sc0rpius | I know this is not #symbian but my gf got a Nokia 500 running Belle and it's unstable as hell |
| 05:27.18 | Sc0rpius | it reboots just for the sake of it |
| 05:27.36 | Sc0rpius | what a crap, Nokia used to be decent |
| 05:27.41 | Sc0rpius | this saddens me |
| 05:27.56 | ieatlint | huh, i've used a few belle devices and not had issues |
| 05:28.08 | ieatlint | well, not outside of the normal crappy symbian reality |
| 05:28.50 | ieatlint | had a nokia 700 for dev for six months... seemed like a decent device overall |
| 05:29.03 | DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: Nokia always had maybe 5% of RMA, on all devices (except N900 where this rate probably been way higher) |
| 05:29.11 | DocScrutinizer | quite usual in whole industry |
| 05:30.03 | Sc0rpius | somebody should make a 100% mobile linux OS 100% open 100% multitasking and NO VM crap like Android |
| 05:30.08 | Sc0rpius | and it seems nobody is interested |
| 05:30.35 | ieatlint | clearly you haven't heard of tizen yet |
| 05:30.44 | ieatlint | tries to withhold laughter |
| 05:30.53 | Sc0rpius | and TIzen was my last hope but it seems applications have to be some HTML5 crap and no native executable support. |
| 05:31.03 | ieatlint | uh, no, there's native |
| 05:31.10 | ieatlint | EFL based primarily |
| 05:31.21 | Sc0rpius | they already said "developers can't build native executables" or so I heard |
| 05:31.47 | DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: maybe since if you do, you get 100% defective hardware fried by idiotas coming up with "ACME OC", "superduper indicator-LED LAZOR" and other shite deliberately frying your hw |
| 05:31.56 | Sc0rpius | anyway I saw that video with the Samsung device running some version of Tizen |
| 05:32.04 | Sc0rpius | didn't look bad. |
| 05:32.21 | Sc0rpius | heh DocScrutinizer |
| 05:32.57 | Sc0rpius | "« Do as we say, not as we do »: Tizen devs use the EFL libraries for everything, but for app devs it's the « HTML5, HTML5 » mantra" |
| 05:33.05 | Sc0rpius | (that's from a blog) |
| 05:33.23 | Sc0rpius | how can you write Angry Birds in HTML5? it'll be very slow |
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| 05:33.34 | DocScrutinizer | bwahaha |
| 05:34.14 | Sc0rpius | poor OS hasn't been officially released and it's already doomed |
| 05:36.32 | ieatlint | Sc0rpius, efl apps are supported |
| 05:36.37 | ieatlint | opengl apps are supported |
| 05:37.08 | ieatlint | angry birds will be opengl, and considering rovio was a sponsor of the tizen conference, i'm betting there'll be angry birds on it |
| 05:37.32 | ieatlint | i've got the dev device here on my desk... it's pretty meh, the base system is very very basic |
| 05:37.33 | Sc0rpius | we'll see about that |
| 05:37.39 | DocScrutinizer | "with great power comes great responsibility" - all those devels never wrapped their head around that very true saying, not even when they seen it on doing "su -" on their device |
| 05:37.43 | ieatlint | and the dev environment only works in 32bit linux and 32bit windows |
| 05:37.49 | ieatlint | so i haven't tried anything |
| 05:38.01 | Sc0rpius | there's virtualbox/vmware for that |
| 05:38.11 | ieatlint | but from what i recall of efl from the openmoko days... heh |
| 05:38.15 | ieatlint | it's not bad |
| 05:38.35 | DocScrutinizer | so all the commercial OS developers (those working for hw manufs) decided NOT to give that much power to devels |
| 05:38.38 | Sc0rpius | I guess you develop in C++ for that |
| 05:38.38 | ieatlint | it's like qml, but no logic in the declarative (similar to xaml in some ways) |
| 05:38.44 | ieatlint | but it's much more restricted in gui elements |
| 05:38.51 | Sc0rpius | I'll miss Qt when I get rid of my N900 |
| 05:38.55 | Sc0rpius | and I'll miss it a lot. |
| 05:38.59 | ieatlint | C for tizen |
| 05:39.05 | Sc0rpius | I see |
| 05:39.06 | ieatlint | and yeah, qt is nice |
| 05:39.45 | ieatlint | not glib c, but efl c... ecore and einas modules, which provide a main loop and basic data structure implementations and such |
| 05:39.54 | Sc0rpius | Glib needs to die |
| 05:39.59 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: hey! thanks for comment on ticket :-D |
| 05:40.15 | ieatlint | i like glib fine for c :P |
| 05:42.11 | Sc0rpius | well |
| 05:42.27 | Sc0rpius | I'll wait for Tizen then, maybe it'll be fun |
| 05:43.42 | ieatlint | good luck |
| 05:44.36 | ieatlint | i'll believe it's a real product when there's a consumer device on the market and all the major partners are still present (that second qualifier being a meego/nokia inspired one) |
| 05:44.49 | Sc0rpius | yeah it's real |
| 05:44.56 | Sc0rpius | but will it satisfy power users? |
| 05:45.04 | Sc0rpius | (I know they could care less about power users) |
| 05:45.32 | ieatlint | yeah, because they wouldn't have a conference if it were going to fail before even launching |
| 05:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: hey, the election is fundamentally flawed anyway, you should have good chances to petition for a re-run where you run for election |
| 05:46.15 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 05:47.19 | DocScrutinizer | if the new council had any sense for PC, this anyway was the first and only thing they'd do: organize immediate properly organized new elections |
| 05:48.22 | ieatlint | yeah.. |
| 05:49.11 | ieatlint | the council election is ominously close to my city council election, which consists of 40 names i've never heard of and instructions to "choose 10" |
| 05:49.12 | DocScrutinizer | *if* I were elected in such a flawed process, I'd accept the appointment for this sole purpose, and I'd hope for getting a better more legit mandate in the new election |
| 05:49.31 | ieatlint | except i recognized names in the maemo council election |
| 05:50.27 | DocScrutinizer | well, recognizing names doesn't automatically qualify them for being a community representative |
| 05:50.35 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 05:50.55 | ieatlint | yeah, but not recognizing them doesn't count for more |
| 05:51.02 | DocScrutinizer | quite possibly the opposite |
| 05:51.11 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 05:51.39 | DocScrutinizer | not recognizing a name rules them out I'd say |
| 05:52.21 | DocScrutinizer | but I'd recognize abill_uk immediately ;-P Doesn't mean I'd vote for him |
| 05:53.46 | ieatlint | similarly the one name on the city council candidates i recognize i also wouldn't vote for.. good times |
| 05:58.21 | DocScrutinizer | which city? |
| 05:59.12 | ieatlint | san francisco |
| 05:59.17 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 06:01.14 | DocScrutinizer | idly wonders what would be the outcome of US democratic procedures competing with maemo council statutes and the way they are executed, for a ranking on a metrics of "proper democracy" |
| 06:02.46 | DocScrutinizer | heck, I need another coffe. Seems I'm in a delusional state of mind |
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| 06:05.15 | ieatlint | hey, i vote for president the same way |
| 06:05.27 | ieatlint | i pick a name at random |
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| 06:21.44 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: can I write you in the Maemo vote thing? |
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| 06:30.47 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: ??? sorry please rephrase |
| 06:31.15 | DocScrutinizer | write me in the vote thing? |
| 06:31.31 | luke-jr | "The election of the Maemo Community Council is now open, … The candidates for election are: …" |
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| 06:31.39 | luke-jr | yeah, write-in "DocScrutinizer" |
| 06:31.46 | DocScrutinizer | if you mean whether you can put my name on the vote ballot: I dunno but for sure I'm not running |
| 06:31.47 | luke-jr | nevermind the candidates |
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| 06:37.39 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: I definitely don't qualify for a community representative, since I notoriously and persitently ignore the "better" half of what's going on in community, over at tmo |
| 06:39.51 | DocScrutinizer | I probably could stand competition as it's now, but I don't like to run for council anyway |
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| 07:33.43 | Sicelo | besides, looks like that stage is over and done with .. seems we can now only vote within the current candidates |
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| 07:48.39 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 07:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | my personal recommendation for a good read, for both voters and candidates: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1187372#post1187372 |
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| 08:38.10 | Estel_ | Hello Maemo. |
| 08:39.55 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: !!! :-) |
| 08:41.29 | Estel_ | As You may be already aware, election for Council is running already, from 16th to 23th may. Every registered Maemo member (maemo.org, not necessary talk.maemo.org) that got account older than 3 months and karma of at least 10, is egligble to vote. You should receive invitation + voting token on Your mail address associated with maemo.org. If You feel that You shoulbe eglibe to vote, but haven't received invitation/token, please contact X-Fade, |
| 08:41.29 | Estel_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:41.29 | DocScrutinizer | I'm already sold to your unremitting dedication to maemo :-D |
| 08:41.58 | Estel_ | wow, DocScrutinizer, thanks for such cheerfull welcome |
| 08:42.35 | Estel_ | :) thanks a lot |
| 08:43.00 | Estel_ | regarding election: links worth checking: |
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| 08:44.14 | Estel_ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2012/Candidate_declarations |
| 08:44.40 | Estel_ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1/2_2012 |
| 08:44.55 | Estel_ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council |
| 08:45.47 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, thanks for inviting Council candidates here, I hoe others will come as well |
| 08:45.56 | Estel_ | hope* |
| 08:46.12 | Estel_ | Ok, now kind of shameless advert ;) |
| 08:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | well, such invitation shouldn't be nexessary :-) |
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| 08:46.50 | Estel_ | don't get it wrong way, but at least 2 candidates weren't aware of maemo irc at all ;) |
| 08:46.52 | DocScrutinizer | anyway YW and welcome here, hope you're here to stay |
| 08:47.15 | Estel_ | exactly, thats why I would have few irc-noobish questions to You after a while |
| 08:47.21 | Estel_ | now, kinda shameless advert: |
| 08:47.26 | DocScrutinizer | np, just ask |
| 08:47.37 | DocScrutinizer | that's why we got chanops |
| 08:48.03 | Estel_ | I'm running for Council, and I invite everyone to see (linked before) Council candidate's declarations, where You will find mine as well |
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| 08:48.52 | Estel_ | I'm also going to stay here for at least a hour focused, and later, responding to pings, if anyone would like to talk with me about plans, ask question, criticize or overall communicate ;) |
| 08:48.58 | Estel_ | I'm open for any question |
| 08:49.11 | Estel_ | that's said, now my noobish questions to joerg :P |
| 08:49.43 | Estel_ | if I got elected, I would like to be semi-always available on IRC, so people could ping me anytime just like You |
| 08:50.02 | Estel_ | what would You recommend as a best technical way to achieve it conveniently? |
| 08:50.18 | Estel_ | i.e. some lightweight irc client on my home's router? |
| 08:50.46 | Estel_ | + auto information when someone pings me or something similar to my nick? |
| 08:51.25 | Estel_ | You know, to easily filter out direct questions from other IRC chat content, when asked while I'm out yet logged on IRC |
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| 08:51.54 | HRH_H_Crab | Estel_: if not a router something like a nslu2 or plug computer thingy. |
| 08:51.55 | DocScrutinizer | well, the straight approach is to use any irc client and keep it running on your main machine |
| 08:52.05 | Estel_ | up to now, I was just connecting from time to time, now I would like to make it permanen like in Council page "are usually on #maemo and happy to talk with You" |
| 08:52.18 | HRH_H_Crab | yeah unless you want to leave a proper machine on 24/7 |
| 08:53.08 | Estel_ | the thing is that I *can't* leave my mine machine 24/7, due to various reasons |
| 08:53.15 | DocScrutinizer | if you don't want to keep a local machine running 24/7, then there's proxies like ZNC, to run them on any (linux) server |
| 08:53.26 | HRH_H_Crab | or get a cheap host somewhere. |
| 08:53.42 | HRH_H_Crab | (or even free) |
| 08:53.45 | Estel_ | ...one of them being that it's a notebook without proper way to reboot after power down etc + WOL works only from standby :/ |
| 08:53.46 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: I could even offer a ZNC account at my host |
| 08:54.13 | Estel_ | on the other hand I got very reliable router, Linksys wrt54G running Tomato now - may switch to OpenWRT |
| 08:54.31 | HRH_H_Crab | Estel_: i doubt you will fit a client on wrt54g |
| 08:54.42 | HRH_H_Crab | iirc i maxed mine out just adding gkrellmd to it ;/ |
| 08:54.53 | Estel_ | I see, many interesting ways of achieving it |
| 08:54.53 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: (my host) see DocScrutinizer51 |
| 08:55.32 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, thanks. BTW, I must google first those things like ZNC, I mostly IRC moderate-newbie, sadly |
| 08:55.41 | DocScrutinizer | np |
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| 08:56.02 | Estel_ | HRH_H_Crab, so wrt54g client isn't a option, understood |
| 08:56.07 | HRH_H_Crab | it might be |
| 08:56.28 | DocScrutinizer | it's simply you don't connect to freenode directly but rather to my server, where you may get an account |
| 08:56.32 | HRH_H_Crab | but if im thinking of the same thing, there is very little free space left in the flash after youve got tomato / openwrt installed. |
| 08:56.47 | Estel_ | space constrains,? I could solderf flash card slot to it |
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| 08:57.03 | HRH_H_Crab | well, if you are going to go down that route, the worlds your lobster. |
| 08:57.20 | HRH_H_Crab | if you can even get 4GB on that thing you could run a whole debian mips install |
| 08:57.29 | HRH_H_Crab | in which case id use irssi in screen! |
| 08:58.03 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, so Your server connect on my behalf, and I connect to it. But, what are directly IRC-related benefits of ZNC proxy? intelligent searching etc? |
| 08:58.27 | Estel_ | HRH_H_Crab, yea, but RAM is a constraing |
| 08:58.39 | HRH_H_Crab | you dont need much ram for irssi and screen. |
| 08:58.50 | HRH_H_Crab | im using an nslu2 for this chat. |
| 08:58.54 | HRH_H_Crab | its got 28MB of ram... |
| 08:58.55 | DocScrutinizer | simply buffering anything for you, automatic playback of buffer on reconnect, and of course 'you' always present on IRC |
| 08:58.55 | HRH_H_Crab | ;) |
| 08:59.00 | Estel_ | I see. |
| 08:59.42 | HRH_H_Crab | Estel_: the problem with the wrt54g is that the actual root filesystem is so small. |
| 08:59.52 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, nice. |
| 09:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | the downside: *theoretically* I could sniff all your actions on IRC |
| 09:00.49 | Estel_ | of course, as with all proxy it's matter of trust. Well, my ISP could do it too :P |
| 09:01.05 | DocScrutinizer | so if you trust me less than your normal internet provider or freenode admins, you shouldn't accept my offer |
| 09:01.14 | Estel_ | HRH_H_Crab, it's true. But still, this little router is a beast |
| 09:01.39 | Estel_ | before Pi it was best platform for many crazy projects, like flying wardriving copters or whatsnot |
| 09:01.48 | HRH_H_Crab | Estel_: i bought a wrt54gl and i was a bit "underwhelmed" |
| 09:02.11 | Corsac | (well, except that freenode admins and isp don't exactly know who Estel_ is and what interesting stuff he has to hide in his irc logs :) |
| 09:02.15 | Estel_ | I trust You more than my internet provider(s), so I accept offer with great appreciation :) |
| 09:02.30 | HRH_H_Crab | the limited flash and the limited bootloader annoyed me a bit. |
| 09:02.40 | HRH_H_Crab | infact mine is currently in kind of a "bricked" state which is very annoying. |
| 09:03.02 | Estel_ | hm, I see. You would need to flash via jtag, probably? |
| 09:03.16 | HRH_H_Crab | my main experience with "misusing" stuff in that way is based around nslu2 |
| 09:03.26 | HRH_H_Crab | they have a lot more potential than the linksys routers. |
| 09:03.27 | Estel_ | Still, for 30 USD and wide availability, it was good piece of hardware |
| 09:03.34 | HRH_H_Crab | what they lack is a nice little built in 4 port switch! ;P |
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| 09:03.59 | Estel_ | :P |
| 09:04.06 | HRH_H_Crab | Estel_: i'll show you something cool which would do what you want: |
| 09:04.12 | Estel_ | need to google this nslu2 thing |
| 09:04.35 | HRH_H_Crab | http://linitx.com/product/12647 |
| 09:04.38 | HRH_H_Crab | forget nslu2 |
| 09:04.42 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, just to be sure it got into proper address, Iaccept offer with much appreciation :) |
| 09:04.43 | HRH_H_Crab | its too old now. |
| 09:04.49 | HRH_H_Crab | that thing i just linked... |
| 09:04.54 | HRH_H_Crab | 256MB ram |
| 09:04.57 | HRH_H_Crab | not a bad processor |
| 09:05.03 | HRH_H_Crab | cf flash card and usb. |
| 09:05.07 | HRH_H_Crab | built in 3 port switch |
| 09:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | Estel_: I already sent a /query |
| 09:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | check your other IRC window |
| 09:05.42 | HRH_H_Crab | those guys ship them with bsd based "appliance" firewall software, but im seriously thinking of grabbing one and sticking debian and shorewall / shorewall6 on it. |
| 09:07.38 | HRH_H_Crab | Estel_: but, having said that, if you are even half serious about breaking out your soldering iron, and are happy using jtag (im not) you could build something much more fun with the wrt54g |
| 09:11.22 | Jaffa | Estel_: Thanks for your work in actually organising things, and pushing for comms and transparency. |
| 09:11.58 | Jaffa | Estel_: SD69's been making his best efforts at being on a mostly absent council, but I don't think he should be picking and choosing over the boring - but important - bits. |
| 09:12.16 | Jaffa | Being on the council isn't all going to Nokia World to represent the community at the launch of the N900, y'know |
| 09:12.20 | Jaffa | ;-) |
| 09:15.04 | Estel_ | Of course, I understand that. |
| 09:15.37 | Estel_ | I agree, that there were things that could be done better, although, I take this 1 person out-of-5 work being quite exhausting |
| 09:15.59 | Estel_ | so it's understandable to me, that at the end, everything started to collapse |
| 09:16.28 | Jaffa | Estel_: It wasn't much better at the start, TBH |
| 09:16.55 | Jaffa | Estel_: And if it's that much of a chore, hold the elections as soon as possible - or *ask* for help |
| 09:17.45 | Estel_ | Here is don't agree completely, - despite fact that momcilo and jeremiah dissapeared just after election (sic!), communication was quite fluent, although, not all possible channels were used - here I agree |
| 09:18.46 | Estel_ | as for help, I remember that I've opted for a way to delay with absent Council members problem |
| 09:19.00 | Estel_ | but there wasn't a will to push it further, overall |
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| 09:20.00 | Estel_ | I'm sure one of many important things for new Council to do, will be fixing statute. Maybe not most important thing, yet, necessary |
| 09:20.38 | Estel_ | we like to avoid such situation as with voting start now, + transparent way to replace absent Council members with new ones |
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| 09:20.59 | Estel_ | it should be less of a problem now, as current candidates are very active, but still. |
| 09:21.18 | Estel_ | BTW, it seems that crizises are motivating, sometimes ;) |
| 09:22.30 | Estel_ | One thing I'm afraid of, is too slow pace of getting used to Council tools via new Council members - judging by candidates - me included - no matter what, most people will be 1st tiimers @ Council |
| 09:23.11 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-243-243.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 09:23.33 | Estel_ | after all, 6 months isn't very much time. We - or they - will need to unify some "tutorial" about Council tools. It may be used by new Counciles as well |
| 09:24.14 | Estel_ | for example, see Council blog. Most people - honestly, me included - were not aware of it's existence at all, cause it wasnt used :P |
| 09:24.24 | chem|st | o/ |
| 09:24.59 | Estel_ | mixing it with Qgil pro-active stance, new Council will have *much* work to do |
| 09:25.13 | Estel_ | which is good news ;) |
| 09:26.12 | DocScrutinizer | hi chem|st |
| 09:29.02 | chem|st | hey |
| 09:29.12 | chem|st | candidates monologue^^ |
| 09:29.36 | Estel_ | erm, kinda |
| 09:29.45 | Estel_ | candidate*, honestly ;) |
| 09:29.53 | chem|st | doc you are not on the list and me neither... what happened to "us for presidents" |
| 09:29.56 | Estel_ | but it was about Jaffa question/statement |
| 09:30.33 | chem|st | Estel_: I know, councelors or candidates in here is not a usual view in my window |
| 09:30.39 | Estel_ | honestly, someone should kick DocScrutinizer in butt for not standing as candidate |
| 09:31.06 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 09:31.07 | Estel_ | hehe. We will try to change that, although I hope for less monologues in future |
| 09:31.48 | chem|st | glad you are here... the important maemo stuff happens on IRC... like grillparties... fishing trips and the most important talk about relevance |
| 09:32.24 | chem|st | to much sarcasm? |
| 09:32.54 | Estel_ | :P agree. Yet, talking seriously, TMO got strong position to, and I'm not talking about "future of maemo" threads :P |
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| 09:37.24 | Estel_ | for example, the thing about CSSU - if it should mess with things not doable via extras, or provide FOSS replacement for closed bits too |
| 09:39.29 | Estel_ | almost no one of interested people was able to attend irc meeting |
| 09:40.15 | Estel_ | about it, yet, talking in TMO thread went very meritocraticly. Well, sad to use names, but usual "trolls" (joerg will know who I mean) seems to avoid developer threads |
| 09:40.21 | Estel_ | fortunately |
| 09:48.10 | Jaffa | Estel_: None of those "interested" people on TMO are capable of commenting sensibly, or - if they are - can do so via the mailing list. |
| 09:48.31 | Jaffa | Estel_: "I wants haz my CSSU betterz!!11!" is not very useful. |
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| 09:56.00 | ieatlint | but it is sensible |
| 09:57.11 | Estel_ | Jaffa, have You read comment I'm reffering to? |
| 09:57.34 | Estel_ | I don't think ivgalgvez or freemangordon are "I want haz better CSSU" people |
| 09:58.48 | Estel_ | BTW, thing about "if CSSU should provide available FOSS replacements for closed bits, or be only a way to deliver things not suitable for extras" is rather about philosophy, not exact technical problems |
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| 09:59.46 | Jaffa | Estel_: And they were both in the meeting. And no, without a URL I didn't know what you were referring to. |
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| 10:01.10 | Estel_ | Strange, as ivgalvez have writtwen that hes sorry he couldn't attent irc meeting |
| 10:01.30 | Estel_ | I think You're reffering to free talk that resulted in announced meeting later |
| 10:01.45 | Estel_ | ...which proves that communication problems also happen on IRC ;) |
| 10:03.06 | Jaffa | Estel_: No, I misread the nick. freemangordon was there. |
| 10:04.31 | Jaffa | But I'm not sure how this related to the current council being ineffective in their most base responsibilities. |
| 10:06.30 | Estel_ | not at all?it was related to what chem|st said |
| 10:06.36 | Estel_ | and we were not arguing ;) |
| 10:06.57 | Estel_ | I agree that most important "hot" development things happen on irc |
| 10:07.12 | Estel_ | yet, I noticed that TMO is more conveinent for *some* things |
| 10:07.49 | Estel_ | for obvious reasons (irc being mostly real-time etc) |
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| 10:10.56 | Estel_ | I commented on Your statements quite a while ago, then, we moved to other topics |
| 10:11.35 | Estel_ | BTW, I don't think we're thinking opposite here - it's just that we differ a little about view on reasons. |
| 10:17.22 | Estel_ | If anyone want to ask me a questions or generally chat about Council things, it's getting close to end real-time availability for now. Of course, I'll drop at later time |
| 10:20.48 | Hurrian | Estel_, has tmo gone crazy over the elections? |
| 10:21.59 | Estel_ | Why? |
| 10:22.09 | Estel_ | Hurrian? |
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| 10:59.14 | Estel_ | OK, see You later people! |
| 10:59.21 | DocScrutinizer | cya Estel_ |
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| 11:19.06 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1207165 sticky? |
| 11:19.48 | DocScrutinizer | (just a question, or rather suggestion) |
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| 11:24.48 | DocScrutinizer | [notice] Council votes already opened. Please check your mail, you should've received your token/ballot |
| 11:25.08 | *** part/#maemo parker_12 (~parker@2001:250:1006:4122:21c:23ff:fefc:1421) |
| 11:25.53 | flux | so, who should we vote?-P |
| 11:26.02 | flux | (and why) |
| 11:29.38 | Hurrian | flux: your choice, who do you think has enough motivation to lead maemo.org well into the next 6 months? |
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| 11:37.24 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: flux: actually the council is not leading |
| 11:37.31 | DocScrutinizer | just saying |
| 11:37.57 | DocScrutinizer | basically the council doesn't decide anything |
| 11:38.35 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: re sticky I'd say no |
| 11:38.45 | merlin1991 | -stable and -testing threads aren't stickies either |
| 11:38.46 | DocScrutinizer | (except such stuff like funding for speakers on maemo summit, device queue...) |
| 11:38.58 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: ok |
| 11:40.02 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: do you agree with freemangordon about too harsh wording of my post there? (keep in mind it's meant to be harsh, to *maybe* scare a few % of noobs. And that's for sure all it will do, if anything) |
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| 11:41.25 | merlin1991 | I'd replace half baked with new and the THERE IS NO SUPPORT to something along the lines of SUPPORT ONLY HAPPENS IN HERE / IRC |
| 11:41.36 | DocScrutinizer | ok |
| 11:42.19 | merlin1991 | and ofc the whole post is redundant except for the irc part ;) |
| 11:45.20 | DocScrutinizer | sure thing |
| 11:46.03 | DocScrutinizer | I'm just scared we eventually end with another extras-devel |
| 11:50.24 | trx | hm, i wasn't paying much attention to the candidates and elections |
| 11:51.04 | trx | got any recommendations about who should i vote for? :) |
| 11:51.38 | trx | or NOT vote for |
| 11:51.43 | trx | thats easier :) |
| 11:53.58 | StyXman | trx: do NOT vote romney :-P |
| 11:54.17 | StyXman | or zarkozy, but he already lost |
| 11:54.17 | trx | :)) |
| 11:54.34 | StyXman | or berlusconi, but the coward is not running again |
| 11:55.25 | trx | good suggestions, i'll take you advice :) |
| 11:55.31 | trx | your* |
| 11:56.05 | trx | i guess i'll randomize(); |
| 11:57.11 | StyXman | well, if you don't know their platformes, then I htink it's better no t to vote |
| 11:58.24 | trx | then i will read the wiki page first :/ |
| 11:59.56 | StyXman | yes, randomize() is not serious |
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| 12:23.10 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: instead of stickieing devel I should make battery patch disappear^^ |
| 12:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 12:23.49 | DocScrutinizer | +100 |
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| 12:25.52 | DocScrutinizer | seems arie and estel got noticed by me for being somewhat active |
| 12:26.13 | DocScrutinizer | StyXman: trx: ^^^ |
| 12:26.50 | trx | yeap, i noticed that too |
| 12:26.52 | trx | thanks |
| 12:27.23 | DocScrutinizer | maybe checking tmo posts and #maemo* irclogs is more enlightenng than just reading the profiles on that wikipage |
| 12:27.50 | chem|st | +mailinglist |
| 12:27.54 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 12:28.13 | DocScrutinizer | hides |
| 12:29.04 | DocScrutinizer | well, I'm not running, I'm not supposed to keep tack of all available channels. I am allowed to ignore ML and tmo |
| 12:29.38 | DocScrutinizer | a proper candidate shouldn't ignore any though |
| 12:30.53 | chem|st | +1 |
| 12:30.57 | DocScrutinizer | estel just an hour ago made sure he'll be available and monitoring this very channel |
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| 12:32.30 | chem|st | cannot remember back when there were councelors or candidates in here apart from myself, and I had no single minute in the 2 weeks of election, as I was occupied with an exhibition and a sailing turn |
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| 12:32.53 | StyXman | DocScrutinizer: I'm not vote worthy, but thanks for the heads up anyways |
| 12:32.56 | internetishard | How do you backup all the downloaded email? |
| 12:32.57 | chem|st | though I had 100% time for counceling the day after election^^ |
| 12:33.30 | chem|st | internetishard: which downloaded emails? |
| 12:33.54 | internetishard | The default email app. Where does it store everything? |
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| 12:34.23 | chem|st | somewhere in /home/user lmc |
| 12:34.57 | DocScrutinizer | I bet in a backup.tgz you'll find all your mails |
| 12:35.15 | internetishard | I hope :P |
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| 12:37.08 | chem|st | in /home/user/.modest which should be in your backup |
| 12:37.37 | internetishard | Ok, was suspicious because there are only 4 checkboxes in the backup program |
| 12:38.06 | chem|st | I think you arent able to not to backup it |
| 12:38.21 | chem|st | so are your contacts |
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| 12:40.44 | chem|st | create a new backup and look yourself ;) |
| 12:40.58 | internetishard | just checking. thanks mamn |
| 12:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | internetishard: sftp://root@iron900/home/user/MyDocs/backups/BackupCSSU-1stUpdate/com_and_cal.zip |
| 12:41.55 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: so it is bound to one of the hooks |
| 12:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | root/home/user/modest-backup.tgz |
| 12:42.30 | DocScrutinizer | err tar.gz |
| 12:43.25 | DocScrutinizer | .modest/(cache|images|local_folders|outboxes) |
| 12:45.25 | DocScrutinizer | .modest/local_folders/sent/cur/* |
| 12:45.33 | internetishard | ok ok |
| 12:45.35 | internetishard | haha thanks |
| 12:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | .modest/mail/pop/*/*/* |
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| 15:18.41 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: ping |
| 15:18.45 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, pong? |
| 15:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | ding |
| 15:50.18 | Jaffa | dong |
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| 20:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | [general notice] voting for council election opened! Check your email! You should already have received your ballot (if you're eligible to vote, see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process ). also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1/2_2012 and http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2012/Candidate_declarations |
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| 20:55.52 | DocScrutinizer | damn, I'm stupid. I don't understand how exactly the vote counting works :-S Could someone explain to me what's the meaning of e.g. >> Your vote will be counted for your first choice candidate as long as he is still in the race, and when he is eliminated, your vote will transfer to the next preference candidate still in the race.<< |
| 20:56.24 | DocScrutinizer | WTF will "eliminate" a candidate? |
| 20:56.33 | Cor-Ai | haha fight to the death! |
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| 20:56.53 | Sicelo | maybe getting few votes? :\ |
| 20:57.45 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: you're starting the counting with *all* candidates got "few" votes |
| 20:57.59 | Woody14619 | My understanding is that it's a run-off model election. So, you can vote for all 7 in the order you want them. |
| 20:58.04 | DocScrutinizer | to be precise: zarro |
| 20:58.35 | DocScrutinizer | Woody14619: yes, but counting is obscure to me |
| 20:59.00 | Sicelo | seems to me the statement refers to what will happen at the end ... so that if your first preferred candidate got few votes, your next prefered has a better chance, etc |
| 20:59.27 | DocScrutinizer | yes, I get that, I can read |
| 20:59.38 | Sicelo | :P |
| 20:59.50 | DocScrutinizer | and that's what they say. What I don't get is the exact way votes are counted |
| 21:00.35 | Woody14619 | So if, at the end of elections say, the totals for each person is : A=300, B=280, C=190, D=170, E=150, F=120, G=90. Now, clearly, G is eliminated. So if anyone had G in their top 5, G is eliminated, and the candidate they voted for as 6th choice gets their votes. |
| 21:01.16 | DocScrutinizer | Woody14619: yo da man! this actually makes sense :-D |
| 21:01.21 | Woody14619 | So say I votes for A, B, G, E, F, C, D. Once G is eliminated, my new vote set is A, B, E, F,C, D. |
| 21:01.45 | Woody14619 | Thus C would get at least one more vote, because (s)he was in 6th place in my list before, and is now in 5th. |
| 21:02.23 | DocScrutinizer | at least mostly |
| 21:03.05 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 21:03.48 | Woody14619 | That cycle is repeated until there are only 6 candidates left. (Or maybe 5, for the "official" tally, though 6 would be sufficient.) |
| 21:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | I guess I'll refer to the source ;-D |
| 21:04.52 | Woody14619 | If order of the winners were important (I don't think it is) you would take it to 5 candidates, to make sure all votes were tallied. |
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| 21:10.33 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.openstv.org/ |
| 21:11.11 | DocScrutinizer | >>Election options: Seat number = number of desired elected candidates (1 for referendum, 5 for council, etc); Threshold = Droop, Static, Whole; Delay surplus transfer = Off; Batch elimination = Zero;<< |
| 21:13.33 | DocScrutinizer | >>The 5 nominees voted for most, as counted by a single transferrable vote system are elected.<< |
| 21:14.02 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.openstv.org/single-transferable-vote |
| 21:21.04 | DocScrutinizer | dang, this site is even more obscure in wording and rationale: >>Since floating-point arithmetic, some implementations round all calculations to a number of decimal places. This implementation does all computations in floating point.<< |
| 21:22.13 | DocScrutinizer | da faq! |
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| 21:24.47 | jacekowski | it's overcomplicated |
| 21:26.56 | GeneralAntilles | I recall the voting theory thread when we picked the election process. |
| 21:27.04 | GeneralAntilles | Never bothered to understand much of it. |
| 21:27.06 | DocScrutinizer | wikipedia FTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Transferable_Vote#Counting_the_votes |
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| 21:46.03 | DocScrutinizer | voted. Traditionally that's boozetime ;-D |
| 21:46.47 | DocScrutinizer | while in 14 minutes THE boozeday starts here in Germany |
| 21:47.02 | DocScrutinizer | cheers |
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