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| 03:21.04 | topobot | why maemo is more hackeable than android? |
| 03:28.41 | Hurrian | topobot, because it's running GNU/Linux |
| 03:28.50 | Hurrian | with glibc |
| 03:28.54 | Hurrian | and X11 |
| 03:28.56 | topobot | android is not linux? |
| 03:29.00 | Hurrian | it is linux |
| 03:29.16 | Hurrian | but chrooting ubuntu on any android device is painful. |
| 03:29.32 | Hurrian | theoretically, they can both run the same stuff via chroot |
| 03:29.37 | topobot | whats the diference between andoid and maemo? |
| 03:29.43 | Hurrian | the stack. |
| 03:29.45 | topobot | can you install ubunto on n900? |
| 03:29.52 | topobot | ubuntu |
| 03:29.55 | Hurrian | android is linux kernel + android OS |
| 03:30.04 | Hurrian | yeah, you can boot ubuntu on the n900. |
| 03:30.17 | topobot | does it run smooth ubunto on n900? |
| 03:30.22 | topobot | ubuntu? |
| 03:30.29 | topobot | does it run fine? |
| 03:30.31 | Hurrian | once you give it some time to load, yeah |
| 03:30.39 | Hurrian | unity 2d runs fine |
| 03:30.45 | topobot | does it run better than maemo? |
| 03:30.48 | Hurrian | nope |
| 03:30.55 | Hurrian | maemo is the best running OS on the N900. |
| 03:31.00 | Hurrian | because of all the closed bits. |
| 03:31.16 | topobot | umm ok |
| 03:31.27 | topobot | is it possible to make faster a n900 phone? |
| 03:31.33 | topobot | maybe changing the hardware? |
| 03:31.38 | Hurrian | overclocking. |
| 03:31.42 | Hurrian | swap on microsd. |
| 03:31.43 | topobot | whats that? |
| 03:31.59 | Hurrian | making the N900's CPU run faster than what it's rated to do. |
| 03:32.21 | Hurrian | it uses more power and shortens the N900's lifespan, but it makes everything a lot more bearable |
| 03:32.53 | topobot | so its faster but it consume more energy? |
| 03:32.53 | Hurrian | you have to understand the N900 is a 2009-era device |
| 03:32.58 | Hurrian | yes. |
| 03:33.22 | topobot | do you think in the future n900 are gonna be expensive? |
| 03:33.26 | topobot | like collectionable hardware? |
| 03:33.46 | Hurrian | Only within Maemo.org, and only if the USB port doesn't break. |
| 03:34.30 | topobot | why if maemo is so good they stopped developing it? |
| 03:34.42 | Hurrian | Nokia's upper management is retarded. |
| 03:34.49 | Hurrian | Also, iirc it was folded into MeeGo. |
| 03:36.38 | topobot | and which do you think is more profitable, to develop an app for android, ios or maemo? |
| 03:38.11 | Hurrian | iOS, by far. Getting >200 downloads on a good 0.99$ app is easy. |
| 03:38.21 | Hurrian | (if your app is good) |
| 03:38.40 | Hurrian | On Maemo, unless you're developing a game, most stuff needed is already there. |
| 03:38.54 | Hurrian | If it's not, it simply gets ported from desktop Linux |
| 03:38.59 | topobot | what do you mean with |
| 03:39.04 | topobot | "stuff needed"? |
| 03:39.18 | Hurrian | tools/utilities/whatever |
| 03:39.27 | topobot | and android? |
| 03:40.07 | Hurrian | the market's pretty full of ad supported ones+pro version (paid), you may want to try that |
| 03:40.38 | topobot | ad supported ones? how does it works that system? |
| 03:41.02 | Hurrian | you put ads in the free version of your app, you get paid when people use your app |
| 03:41.10 | topobot | oh |
| 03:41.14 | topobot | is that profitable? |
| 03:41.22 | Hurrian | for apps with lots of downloads, then yeah, it is |
| 03:41.39 | topobot | look, i made an program for maemo |
| 03:42.10 | topobot | with python, and i been usign this app since some years, i want to develop it on ios for selling it |
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| 03:42.21 | topobot | i think maybe can be useful for other |
| 03:42.22 | topobot | s |
| 03:42.35 | topobot | but i dont know to program objectvie c |
| 03:42.56 | Hurrian | iirc Apple lets other programming languages fly if your app is good enough. |
| 03:43.01 | topobot | theres a programmer that can pass the python program into objective c and then i can sell it on itunes |
| 03:43.10 | topobot | but he is asking me for 1400 dollars |
| 03:43.28 | Hurrian | they loosen the rules if your app is not some spam thing. |
| 03:43.55 | Hurrian | if you want to not use Objective-C, you can publish it on the Cydia app store, where there are no rules |
| 03:44.00 | topobot | so i need to sel 1414 apps at 0.99$ in order to not loose money |
| 03:44.05 | topobot | sell |
| 03:45.09 | Hurrian | 1400 dollars is big money, do you think you can sell that many? |
| 03:45.25 | wmarone | heh |
| 03:45.27 | Hurrian | if you think you can at least break even, go for it, but if not, don't. |
| 03:45.30 | topobot | i dont know , i never tried this before |
| 03:46.02 | wmarone | heh, you need something like RubyMotion, but for Python |
| 03:46.37 | Hurrian | wmarone, you just need your app popular enough. iirc, Angry Birds on iOS uses (used?) Lua |
| 03:46.47 | wmarone | it uses Lua internally |
| 03:46.55 | wmarone | the interpreter and all of its scripts are contained within the .app |
| 03:46.59 | wmarone | Apple doesn't care about those |
| 03:47.14 | wmarone | it's not a matter of "popular" enough, it's a matter of how it impacts the system |
| 03:47.16 | topobot | angry birds used lua |
| 03:47.17 | topobot | wow |
| 03:47.26 | wmarone | lots of games use Lua |
| 03:47.33 | topobot | but not pure lua right? |
| 03:47.40 | wmarone | define "pure lua" |
| 03:47.41 | Hurrian | yeah. |
| 03:47.58 | topobot | i mean its an objective c app that internally interpret lua code |
| 03:48.02 | wmarone | yes |
| 03:48.11 | wmarone | the lua interpreter is compiled into the binary |
| 03:48.36 | topobot | whats the reason of using lua? |
| 03:48.39 | wmarone | Half-life 2 does that, World of Warcraft does that... |
| 03:48.47 | topobot | why not use pure objective c |
| 03:49.16 | wmarone | some things are easier in high level scripting languages |
| 03:49.18 | Hurrian | it eases cross-platform development. |
| 03:49.23 | wmarone | that too |
| 03:49.32 | Hurrian | wasnt angry birds for maemo also partially Lua? |
| 03:49.37 | topobot | angry birds is cross plattform? |
| 03:49.43 | wmarone | I would imagine they're all partially Lua |
| 03:49.45 | topobot | does it run on android as well? |
| 03:49.48 | wmarone | yes |
| 03:49.57 | Hurrian | topobot, it's free, ad-supported on Android |
| 03:50.16 | wmarone | in fact I'd imagine that, at least on Apple, it's mostly C + Lua and very little objective-c |
| 03:50.17 | topobot | does andoid runs objective c apps? |
| 03:50.20 | topobot | *android |
| 03:50.28 | Hurrian | topobot, no, it runs Dalvik apps |
| 03:50.32 | wmarone | err |
| 03:50.39 | wmarone | Android's NDK allows for C applications |
| 03:50.40 | topobot | dalvik? |
| 03:50.54 | Hurrian | wmarone, almost forgot about that |
| 03:51.18 | wmarone | topobot: Dalvik is the java-like VM Google created for Android |
| 03:51.19 | Hurrian | but the share of armv6/armv7 android phones is probably about 50/50, so i wouldn't do that |
| 03:51.33 | topobot | ohhh |
| 03:51.53 | wmarone | Hurrian: sure you would, if Google can't discern between them and deliver the right package then they're wholly incompetent |
| 03:51.55 | topobot | so for developing on android is it better to use java? |
| 03:52.17 | wmarone | topobot: well, Dalvik really. They share syntax and not much else |
| 03:52.38 | wmarone | though Oracle and Google are battling out over this stuff in court right now >.> |
| 03:53.08 | topobot | and which are the limits you have on ios for developing apps? |
| 03:53.18 | topobot | i heard there are a lot of limitations right? |
| 03:53.30 | wmarone | you'd have to go dig through Apple's docs to determine their limitations |
| 03:53.35 | wmarone | I have no hand in iOS |
| 04:00.59 | topobot | and which are the most innovative apps for mobile phones out there? |
| 04:04.22 | wmarone | shrugs |
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| 07:43.25 | topobot | hi |
| 07:43.27 | topobot | anyone here? |
| 07:44.37 | Sicelo | kinda |
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| 07:44.58 | topobot | is it possible to attach an external camera to n900? |
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| 07:46.11 | Sicelo | i haven't tried. either way, with h-e-n, it might be possible |
| 07:47.06 | topobot | whats h-e-n? |
| 07:47.09 | Sicelo | also, what 'exactly' do you want to do? |
| 07:47.13 | Sicelo | ~h-e-n |
| 07:47.13 | infobot | hostmode is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging |
| 07:47.27 | topobot | i want to connect a external camera |
| 07:47.45 | Sicelo | connect it to do what? |
| 07:48.36 | topobot | instead of using the camera of the n900 |
| 07:48.44 | topobot | i want to connect an external camera |
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| 07:48.57 | topobot | for example a spy micro camera |
| 07:49.06 | topobot | so i can attach it to my neck |
| 07:49.13 | flux | well, you would probably need a special camera application to make use of such camera |
| 07:49.20 | topobot | and use it as a spy camera to record all the anticapitalist protest |
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| 07:50.58 | Sicelo | flux: maybe mplayer and gstreamer would do |
| 07:51.19 | flux | sure, any app that could make use of /dev/video2 |
| 07:51.40 | topobot | but how do i connect the camera to the n900? |
| 07:51.40 | RST38h | Moo, gentlemen |
| 07:51.45 | RST38h | How is suffering tonight? |
| 07:51.46 | topobot | via usb? |
| 07:52.36 | Sicelo | of course topobot. and h-e-n. you got an URL a few lines before |
| 07:52.46 | topobot | ok |
| 07:54.36 | topobot | h-e-n allows to conect to any usb external device? |
| 07:54.57 | Sicelo | ~h-e-n |
| 07:54.57 | infobot | i heard hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging |
| 07:55.08 | Sicelo | read man. answer is yes |
| 07:55.49 | Sicelo | the only issue you might face is lack of driver/module ... but that's a bridge you'll have to cross after reaching |
| 07:55.49 | topobot | but do i need to develop another app besides h-e-n? |
| 07:56.31 | Sicelo | if you're a dev, so much better. but maemo already has mplayer and gstreamer apps .. these should be enough |
| 07:56.44 | Sicelo | but then, only you know your exact requirements |
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| 08:08.18 | Hurrian | doesn't maemo already have uvcvideo/gspca drivers? |
| 08:08.25 | Hurrian | those two should cover most webcams |
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| 10:00.31 | joga | on n900, can I somehow prevent checking for updates if I have an internet connection, I'm going camping abroad for a few days and 1MB of data might cost 3-4 euros |
| 10:00.50 | joga | I'd just like to use ssh, if anything |
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| 10:10.29 | Hurrian | iirc you can use gconf to set update interval |
| 10:10.33 | Hurrian | lemme look uit up |
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| 10:11.16 | Hurrian | gconftool -s --type int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 2147483646 |
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| 10:26.06 | joga | Hurrian thanks! |
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| 10:56.17 | spark666 | is it possible whit CSSU testing to have autorotation just in browser,contacts and phone calls? |
| 10:56.44 | chem|st | Hurrian: joga for me it never changed anything... setting it to the maximum value gives me an update message any day there is an update available... |
| 10:57.12 | Hurrian | set it and reboot. |
| 10:57.32 | Hurrian | unless you launch ham, it wont notify you anymore |
| 10:57.50 | chem|st | Hurrian: lol "have you tried to turn it off and on again" I am the BOFH here... |
| 10:58.15 | Hurrian | iirc it only reappears if you happen to relaunch ham. |
| 10:58.24 | Hurrian | which i do for CSSU updates and the sort |
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| 11:02.01 | chem|st | Hurrian: what is the default value? |
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| 11:06.54 | Hurrian | chem|st, iirc it's 1440 |
| 11:06.57 | Hurrian | 1440 minutes |
| 11:07.22 | chem|st | 1 day though |
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| 11:11.53 | RST38h | Meanwhile: A young researcher from San Francisco has died after being infected by a highly virulent strain of meningococcal disease he was studyingand there are fears that it could spread. |
| 11:14.25 | Hurrian | isn't SOP for that to cremate the body, encase it in lead and put it in the ground? |
| 11:14.50 | Hurrian | hospitals have infectious disease wards for that |
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| 11:16.34 | RST38h | And Win8 News: unless you buy the Media Center version of the OS, Windows won't offer any native facility for DVD playback. |
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| 11:18.36 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: hail the operator! |
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| 11:18.48 | Hurrian | >DVD playback included with media center upgrade |
| 11:18.51 | Hurrian | wait, what? |
| 11:19.11 | Hurrian | i could've sworn that was a standard feature of WMP for years |
| 11:20.00 | chem|st | Hurrian: and for years I do not use WMP... if on windows, if forced to... I use vlc as anywhere else... |
| 11:20.45 | Hurrian | whelp, more reason to include mpchc as part of my "drivers" flashdrive. |
| 11:21.02 | chem|st | I'd guess I started it accidentially some times with fresh installs but never used it since win2k again |
| 11:22.43 | jonwil | I think whats happening is that Microsoft has decided that if you want media playback for these codecs, you have to pay extra (which then goes to the patent holders for these formats) |
| 11:23.14 | jonwil | i.e. it allows them to sell the base version of Windows 8 cheaper (due to not needing to pay the licenses for that version) |
| 11:23.23 | DocScrutinizer | re update, don't use insane idiotic numbers like 2147483646, when 1440000 will do |
| 11:23.45 | Hurrian | if windows 8 (not pro) costs the same or more than home premium, this whole thing is idiotic. |
| 11:24.35 | jonwil | Windows 8 has nothing in it that makes me want to upgrade at all |
| 11:25.56 | Termana | Considering I'm all Linux, Windows 8 would be a downgrade for me |
| 11:26.07 | Termana | or any Windows |
| 11:26.36 | Termana | Windows don't come in my house man. Doors are fine though |
| 11:27.13 | Termana | I should get a doormat or something that says "Leave your Windows devices at the door" |
| 11:27.26 | Hurrian | Termana, I use it for the games. |
| 11:27.47 | Veggen | I had to cave in and buy something with Windows this winter. Didn't survive first boot, though ;P |
| 11:27.55 | Hurrian | I have a PS3, but that's more of a locked system, also, 250+++ MB updates every other week |
| 11:28.08 | Veggen | I hate that quality laptops don't come OS-less. |
| 11:28.15 | Termana | Hurrian, I'm not much of a gamer, so that probably helps my no-windows situation |
| 11:28.26 | Termana | Veggen, what about System76? |
| 11:30.07 | DocScrutinizer | re update - when you tell it period of update is MAXINT, then what's date of next update? now() + MAXINT? |
| 11:30.28 | merlin1991 | nop |
| 11:30.29 | merlin1991 | e |
| 11:30.31 | DocScrutinizer | congrats, you created an overflow |
| 11:30.35 | merlin1991 | then it overflows and fails 100% |
| 11:30.38 | merlin1991 | in saying NOW |
| 11:30.47 | merlin1991 | then ham gets even slower xD |
| 11:32.02 | DocScrutinizer | and odds are internally it's using jiffies aka linux-dates for duration and time of next update |
| 11:32.25 | chem|st | Termana: need that for apple + windows^^ |
| 11:33.25 | DocScrutinizer | so even MAXINT/60 is probably still a few magnitudes too large for update-period |
| 11:34.51 | DocScrutinizer | well, I already updated the ³ in "how-to-tweak-your-maemo" |
| 11:35.00 | DocScrutinizer | § |
| 11:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | even |
| 11:35.20 | DocScrutinizer | qiute some time ago |
| 11:35.47 | chem|st | something >1M should do... |
| 11:35.47 | DocScrutinizer | and the fact that MAXINT seems to fail for period been well known from beginning |
| 11:36.54 | DocScrutinizer | honestly 60*60*24*365 should be just fine |
| 11:37.33 | DocScrutinizer | if that's been seconds now |
| 11:37.59 | DocScrutinizer | 60*24*365 for the case it's in minutes |
| 11:39.55 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check |
| 11:44.24 | DocScrutinizer | idly muses what's that bit in man's nature that makes him select MAX whenever there's a MAX value mentioned for a value to pick |
| 11:45.22 | Termana | I'm not sure what you're thinking of but that is AWESOMENESS |
| 11:45.41 | DocScrutinizer | ">>short D+ and D- with a resistance of MAX 200R<< - hooray, I found a 200Ohm-resistor to fix my charger" |
| 11:49.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~2147483647 / 1440 |
| 11:49.20 | infobot | 1491308.088194444543 |
| 11:49.32 | DocScrutinizer | ~2147483647 / 1440 / 365 |
| 11:49.32 | infobot | 4085.775584094369 |
| 11:49.50 | Hurrian | >next apt-worker update in 4 millenia |
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| 11:50.24 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, now I *finally* shown him who's the boss ;-P |
| 11:50.39 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha, or maybe not |
| 11:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | esp since your update schedule will get updated itself whenever you run an update, so assuming you start HAM once every 4 weeks to check for a new app or for a CSSU update or whatever, setting the period to 30 days is as good as 4000 years, in both cases it never will do an automatic update |
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| 13:07.08 | LaoLang_cool | Can I stop mass storage mode from n900 side? |
| 13:08.11 | Termana | Don't select Mass Storage Mode when you plug it in? |
| 13:08.43 | BiggAl | I think he mean's force it to be ejected |
| 13:08.45 | LaoLang_cool | Termana: I've enabled it, I wonder if I can stop it from n900 |
| 13:09.06 | LaoLang_cool | BiggAl: yes :) |
| 13:09.20 | BiggAl | doubt it - it'd somehow have to signal to the computer that you want it to finish writing and release any locks |
| 13:09.35 | BiggAl | on the filesystem |
| 13:10.32 | LaoLang_cool | ok.. |
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| 13:32.24 | lardman | Just browsing the web and looking at a hand-on review of the Galaxy S3, I see an interesting feature called Smart Stay which uses the camera to detect whether you're looking at the screen and therefore whether to power it off |
| 13:33.33 | SpeedEvil | I find it depressing to think that that idea - which I think I commented on IRC about 4 years ago - is probably patented |
| 13:33.55 | lardman | Well as long as you don't want to sell it, and we are Linux folks |
| 13:33.55 | Psi_ | heh |
| 13:33.57 | Hurrian | wtf? camera being on and imaging power is probably higher than running LED screen at 100% brightness |
| 13:34.07 | lardman | Hurrian: I was wondering about that |
| 13:34.16 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: Not really |
| 13:34.20 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: - done properly. |
| 13:34.21 | Psi_ | wouldnt have to be on all the time, just one frame every sec |
| 13:34.22 | lardman | though low framerate would do |
| 13:34.28 | SpeedEvil | You can do it several ways. |
| 13:34.31 | SpeedEvil | A frame a second. |
| 13:34.41 | SpeedEvil | Or - perhaps cheaper - a tiny ROI tracking face |
| 13:35.03 | Hurrian | that's still pretty stupid, though, even if it was at 1fps. it's probably easier to reach for the device lock button. |
| 13:35.12 | Hurrian | then again, it is 4. 8 inches |
| 13:35.16 | lardman | lol |
| 13:35.18 | Psi_ | i like the n900 slider button |
| 13:35.28 | lardman | http://www.knowyourmobile.com/features/1354955/samsung_smart_technology_an_indepth_look.html |
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| 13:35.45 | lardman | sounds like they expect it to be used if you fall asleep |
| 13:36.02 | SpeedEvil | lardman: It depends. |
| 13:36.20 | lardman | I think eye tracking to determine whether the backlight timeout is active would be useful, to save needing to keep proding the screen |
| 13:36.27 | SpeedEvil | indeed |
| 13:36.36 | DocScrutinizer | ~roi |
| 13:36.37 | infobot | i heard roi is Return On Investment, usually used to describe one's own interpretation of a pragmatic solution, or just plain hedonism. Also could mean "Rate Of Interest" in banking terms. |
| 13:36.46 | lardman | region of interest |
| 13:36.49 | SpeedEvil | Region of interest |
| 13:37.06 | SpeedEvil | It's settable in most cameras - I had one USB camera that would do 400fps@16x16 |
| 13:37.29 | lardman | but is it cheaper electron-wise? |
| 13:38.24 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:38.41 | lardman | focusing might be an issue, though one would presumably set that once or at a fixed reading distance |
| 13:38.57 | DocScrutinizer | glares at half-disassembled n950 |
| 13:38.58 | SpeedEvil | Done right, - with 'DSP' support - it can be quite lightweight. |
| 13:39.07 | SpeedEvil | At least compared with full-up backlight |
| 13:39.14 | lardman | sure |
| 13:39.25 | lardman | might also add in gaze tracking and scroll the page for you :) |
| 13:39.29 | SpeedEvil | Also - it raises other fun possibilities |
| 13:39.32 | DocScrutinizer | such smartass printed antennae |
| 13:39.34 | SpeedEvil | eye-flick gestures |
| 13:39.49 | lardman | yeah would be cool |
| 13:39.51 | SpeedEvil | Blink gestures |
| 13:40.06 | lardman | sticking tongue out gestures |
| 13:40.08 | SpeedEvil | Wink three times with your left eye, then look right-left-right to make a call, for example. |
| 13:40.14 | SpeedEvil | Intuitive. |
| 13:40.19 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 13:40.21 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 13:40.28 | lardman | hope someone doesn't call an ambulance thinking you're having a stroke.... |
| 13:40.38 | DocScrutinizer | massages a muscle in his face |
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| 13:40.49 | SpeedEvil | If you're having a stroke, it navigates to a preset website, with appropriate content. |
| 13:41.03 | lardman | lol |
| 13:41.23 | lardman | re the S3, 4.8" is rather large |
| 13:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | I think the eyetracking+blink-'gestures' UI is pretty nice. Not for screens though, but for sth like google-glasses |
| 13:42.17 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Indeed. |
| 13:42.28 | DocScrutinizer | on my future investigation projects for ~15 years now |
| 13:42.47 | Hurrian | on a side note, anyone here got the N900 slide lock to stop working nicely? |
| 13:42.52 | DocScrutinizer | this very year I hope to actually start hands-on |
| 13:42.53 | lardman | I thought those glasses were going to be out later in the year ;) |
| 13:43.06 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: you mean yours has? |
| 13:43.10 | Hurrian | i dummied out the sysfs entry in mce, it locks and unlocks randomly ;_; |
| 13:43.14 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: From memory, it's a little magnet |
| 13:43.22 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 13:43.43 | SpeedEvil | you mean the keyboard lock? |
| 13:43.50 | DocScrutinizer | slide-lock? |
| 13:43.52 | Hurrian | No, the lock switch on the side. |
| 13:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | ??? |
| 13:44.04 | DocScrutinizer | oooh, N900 |
| 13:44.10 | Hurrian | it's beside the headphone jack. |
| 13:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | I've read N950 |
| 13:44.30 | DocScrutinizer | we had that before |
| 13:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | it's a mech defect of the switch |
| 13:44.56 | SpeedEvil | The right thing to do is to replace the switch. |
| 13:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 13:45.08 | SpeedEvil | I would however try dissasembling, and flushing with contact cleaner. |
| 13:45.18 | DocScrutinizer | open up, clean, check switch, replace if due |
| 13:45.28 | Hurrian | will do when i buy a nicer heatgun and a capacitor to replace the internal backup battery. |
| 13:45.29 | SpeedEvil | - and if that doesn't work - try opening the switch and fixing. |
| 13:45.36 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 13:45.49 | SpeedEvil | That's really hard at this scale though. |
| 13:45.51 | SpeedEvil | I have done it. |
| 13:45.54 | DocScrutinizer | forget about opening those fsckng micro smd-switches |
| 13:46.08 | SpeedEvil | It varies with model |
| 13:46.13 | SpeedEvil | some are actually not too bad |
| 13:46.27 | SpeedEvil | others have those plastic melted buttons on |
| 13:46.31 | lardman | hmm, IR glint is good for eye tracking /me muses to himself |
| 13:46.49 | SpeedEvil | lardman: the eye doesn't appear much different in near-IR to issible |
| 13:46.55 | SpeedEvil | vis |
| 13:47.11 | DocScrutinizer | look, that'S a NO-switch. If there's random contacts, some conducting debris has to be inside, most likely something broke and now is loose inside the switch |
| 13:47.15 | SpeedEvil | wonders about corneal temperatures |
| 13:47.29 | SpeedEvil | Indeed |
| 13:47.30 | lardman | you sure? My daughter's eyes shine like cats' eyes when she looks towards our baby monitor and it's dark |
| 13:47.46 | Hurrian | that's probably light getting reflected |
| 13:47.47 | SpeedEvil | that's because it's illuminated |
| 13:47.54 | lardman | NIR |
| 13:47.57 | SpeedEvil | The same happens with normal light |
| 13:48.18 | SpeedEvil | If you can learn to defocus your eyes so that the flash of a camera and the lens merge into one, your eyes glow white |
| 13:48.20 | DocScrutinizer | red-eye effect |
| 13:48.56 | SpeedEvil | Also - with IR, it's due to lack of aversion, and poor focusing, so you get better 'cats-eye' effect |
| 13:49.34 | DocScrutinizer | it's basically due to flash of cheap compact cams so close to lens |
| 13:49.36 | lardman | whatever the method, with NIR illumination the eyes are by far the brightest objects on the screen |
| 13:50.00 | SpeedEvil | Interesting |
| 13:50.09 | DocScrutinizer | yes, because your retina reflects IR to avoid overheating |
| 13:50.12 | lardman | I'll take a photo |
| 13:50.33 | SpeedEvil | There is little IR light of that sort that matters. |
| 13:51.10 | SpeedEvil | It's not to prevent overheating, it's because the IR focal point differs, so instead of the eye being a good reteroreflector - as it is when focussed on visible - it's a bad one - and you get a relatively wide cone. |
| 13:51.31 | SpeedEvil | The solar spectrum has the majority of energy in visible - not NIR |
| 13:51.42 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't matter |
| 13:51.45 | SpeedEvil | And 'thermal' IR - ~10um - is absorbed by the eye |
| 13:51.49 | SpeedEvil | the cornea |
| 13:51.49 | DocScrutinizer | hot objects are legion |
| 13:51.54 | SpeedEvil | It gets nowhere near the lens. |
| 13:52.08 | SpeedEvil | Hot objects are not common in nature, so are not selected for at all. |
| 13:52.27 | SpeedEvil | ^so tollerance for them |
| 13:52.39 | DocScrutinizer | rather intollerance then |
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| 13:54.09 | DocScrutinizer | I'd argue nature/evolution took care to reflect as much of useless "energy" out of eye again as possible |
| 13:54.28 | SpeedEvil | It's quite irrelevant unless you look at the sun |
| 13:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | which of course never really happens in real life of a homo erectus in savanna |
| 13:55.14 | lardman | I think absorption/filtering would be easier than developing reflectors for that purpose |
| 13:55.48 | k273 | wow, heavy stuff |
| 13:55.49 | lardman | not unless said homo erectus has welding goggles with a hole and it's an eclipse |
| 13:55.50 | k273 | =) |
| 13:55.59 | DocScrutinizer | filtering NIR from visible spectrum is harder than reflecting it back out, I'd guess |
| 13:56.02 | SpeedEvil | http://www.opticsinfobase.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-28-6-1061 |
| 13:56.08 | SpeedEvil | args at firewalls. |
| 13:56.10 | SpeedEvil | paywalls |
| 13:56.30 | lardman | reads paper |
| 13:56.47 | teotwaki | lardman: sup mate |
| 13:57.04 | lardman | hi teotwaki, I was wondering ;) |
| 13:57.16 | k273 | hi teotwaki |
| 13:57.19 | teotwaki | how goes? |
| 13:57.22 | teotwaki | Hi k273 |
| 13:57.35 | teotwaki | k273: you followed me? Or you just happen to be here? |
| 13:57.53 | k273 | no. I use n900 too |
| 13:57.58 | k273 | =) |
| 13:58.07 | teotwaki | lardman: so, what's new? Still at uni? |
| 13:58.36 | lardman | teotwaki: yep, what are you up to these days? |
| 13:58.45 | SpeedEvil | www.iovs.org/content/40/3/639.full.pdf - page 644 says that for rat retinas they absorb more IR than visible - page 6 second bottom |
| 13:58.48 | teotwaki | lardman: in the south of france, working in a small voip shop |
| 13:58.51 | SpeedEvil | left |
| 13:58.59 | k273 | I came here to ask about /usr/bin/input-hildon-desktop that slows down my N900 and DocScrutinizer answered me, teotwaki |
| 13:59.09 | teotwaki | cool |
| 13:59.31 | k273 | seems a bad hardware, no cool at all, teotwaki =) |
| 13:59.45 | lardman | teotwaki: I trust the South of France has less rain than the South of England at this point in time! |
| 13:59.46 | k273 | *bad keyboard |
| 14:00.10 | teotwaki | lardman: true |
| 14:00.14 | lardman | urgh |
| 14:00.22 | lardman | but :) |
| 14:00.51 | teotwaki | I'm the product manager / lead dev on a call centre voip software line |
| 14:01.03 | lardman | cool |
| 14:01.19 | lardman | re reflectance it looks like it varies from ~1 to ~12% across the IR range |
| 14:01.27 | SpeedEvil | That reminds me, I need to poke my ISP about setting up SIP, so I can drop my main phone line down to 'low user' |
| 14:01.40 | lardman | but these biological papers are hard going, need a glossary |
| 14:01.44 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: (slide switch) please check dmesg/syslog |
| 14:01.59 | SpeedEvil | wishes he had a nice paywall. |
| 14:02.00 | DocScrutinizer | it should have a logline directly from kernel for each closinf |
| 14:02.01 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, I get the usual GPIO open |
| 14:02.02 | DocScrutinizer | g |
| 14:02.02 | SpeedEvil | account |
| 14:02.13 | DocScrutinizer | and opening of that slider-switch |
| 14:02.45 | Hurrian | yeah, I get the GPIO messages. |
| 14:02.56 | lardman | SpeedEvil: that site is annoying, can't even save the papers for later reference (easily) |
| 14:03.00 | DocScrutinizer | then you're rather sure it's a hw defect |
| 14:03.21 | DocScrutinizer | check for large debris in device, and also tiny debris inside switch |
| 14:03.41 | SpeedEvil | Flushing the switch may help |
| 14:03.46 | SpeedEvil | but is possibly unlikely |
| 14:03.52 | DocScrutinizer | most likely the spring in switch is broken, so the slider doesn't reset to norma position |
| 14:04.16 | Hurrian | I already spent ~30 minutes blowing into the thing, won't bother. Also, the switch acts normally on the outside. |
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| 14:04.38 | DocScrutinizer | well, I guess the knob has its own spring |
| 14:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | and the slider notch can move/slide freely into active position even while know is on normal position |
| 14:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | s/know/knob/ |
| 14:06.29 | DocScrutinizer | find a replacement switch at digikey/mouseer/whatever |
| 14:06.55 | lardman | wonders why Gnome's file search tool is so rubbish |
| 14:07.10 | Hurrian | lardman, find / -name [filename] |
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| 14:07.24 | SpeedEvil | There are camera swithc unlock IIRC too |
| 14:07.42 | DocScrutinizer | or place a blob of plasticine on inside of knob, so slider gets forced back to normal position when you release knob |
| 14:07.50 | lardman | Hurrian: I know, but still |
| 14:08.14 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: apt-get install find-utils |
| 14:08.45 | DocScrutinizer | messybox' find is even more rubbish than anything else ;-) |
| 14:08.57 | k273 | teotwaki, have you read my question following our previous -chat about a DE that groups windows according to the task we're trying to finish and not anything else? |
| 14:09.34 | lardman | while I'm rubbishing, window arranging using the "Start button" key + direction arrows a la Win7 would be nice too |
| 14:09.44 | Hurrian | people use busybox on the N900? |
| 14:10.06 | Hurrian | the gnu coreutils and bash are immediate first installs along with fapman |
| 14:10.10 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: nooooo XP |
| 14:10.18 | teotwaki | k273: no, and not really in the mood nor available to answer those questions. |
| 14:10.29 | teotwaki | k273: there are loads of UX experts here, I'd suggest you simply ask them. |
| 14:10.30 | k273 | oh. |
| 14:10.49 | k273 | okay teotwaki, thanks for your explanation. |
| 14:10.50 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: however gnu coreutils doesn't provide find |
| 14:11.18 | Hurrian | ~ $ which find |
| 14:11.32 | Hurrian | ./usr/bin/find |
| 14:11.44 | DocScrutinizer | so what? ;-P |
| 14:11.52 | Hurrian | busybox. |
| 14:12.02 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 14:12.12 | Hurrian | k273, how would you go around doing that? |
| 14:12.22 | Hurrian | grouping related windows together? |
| 14:12.22 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/find |
| 14:12.24 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 2010-06-23 06:13 /usr/bin/find -> /bin/busybox |
| 14:12.53 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# which find |
| 14:12.54 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/gnu/find |
| 14:12.56 | k273 | that is exactly my question, Hurrian, but not in an N900 but on a desktop |
| 14:13.00 | DocScrutinizer | findutils-gnu |
| 14:13.30 | lardman | sees another "smart feature" of the S3 - it phones someone you're writing a message to if you hold the phone to your ear (having become frustrated with all the capacitive kb typos) |
| 14:13.44 | Hurrian | k273, ah, yeah. i guess you can kludge this into dwm? |
| 14:13.45 | lardman | I wonder if there's also some ear recognition going on :) |
| 14:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | OMFG |
| 14:14.23 | DocScrutinizer | hates smart features |
| 14:14.41 | DocScrutinizer | they *never* are as smart as their designers thought they'd be |
| 14:14.44 | lardman | I don't know, I think some might be quite useful assuming you know they are there |
| 14:14.56 | k273 | kludge? excuse me I don't understand the word, Hurrian |
| 14:15.05 | lardman | as long as they are not too smart, otherwise you don't know what they hell is going to happen |
| 14:15.32 | DocScrutinizer | ~dict kludge |
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| 14:16.45 | k273 | I see |
| 14:16.47 | k273 | thanks |
| 14:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | as soon as it starts with devels/marketing calling something "smart", it's usually oversophisticated useless annoying BS |
| 14:17.32 | DocScrutinizer | everything less "smart" is just proper reasonable design |
| 14:17.35 | Hurrian | speaking of which, Touchwiz still looks like ass. |
| 14:17.47 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: sure |
| 14:17.52 | Hurrian | it may add useful features, but holy hell does it look like ass. |
| 14:18.27 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rc@g230054087.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:18.52 | k273 | fapman? |
| 14:19.00 | k273 | shakes his head |
| 14:19.00 | DocScrutinizer | SIC |
| 14:19.24 | k273 | I use busybox only, simply because it's what provided from the beginning... |
| 14:19.45 | Hurrian | k273, faster application manager |
| 14:19.48 | DocScrutinizer | well, busybox is a PITA to use for interactive |
| 14:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | try busybox ps |
| 14:20.01 | DocScrutinizer | useless |
| 14:20.13 | k273 | busybox ps? |
| 14:20.13 | DocScrutinizer | try busybox su, nonexistent |
| 14:20.18 | k273 | yes |
| 14:20.19 | DocScrutinizer | ps |
| 14:20.22 | DocScrutinizer | ps ps ps |
| 14:20.26 | k273 | yes |
| 14:20.30 | DocScrutinizer | you never heard of ps? |
| 14:20.36 | k273 | no? |
| 14:20.43 | k273 | I kinda am a noob |
| 14:20.44 | DocScrutinizer | hmmms |
| 14:21.08 | Hurrian | ./bin/ps |
| 14:21.09 | Hurrian | works |
| 14:21.23 | Hurrian | oh |
| 14:21.24 | DocScrutinizer | for ehatever metrics of "works" |
| 14:21.26 | *** join/#maemo b1ackdeath (b1ackdeath@nat/redhat/x-tsxhfrrtecjqbzdd) |
| 14:21.31 | Hurrian | switches are missing. |
| 14:21.36 | DocScrutinizer | yup :-( |
| 14:21.57 | Hurrian | yeah, many of the busybox applets dummy out the switches to not break when programs expect coreuitls |
| 14:21.58 | k273 | I am also doing several tasks now, XD |
| 14:22.00 | Hurrian | *coreutils |
| 14:22.38 | k273 | so it's how the faster app man called here... |
| 14:24.02 | DocScrutinizer | no! it's been fapman, is fapman, and always will stay with that quite appropriate name XP |
| 14:24.12 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@20.132.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:25.13 | k273 | quite. |
| 14:25.25 | DocScrutinizer | sorry when I burnt my fingers on first touch of fapman so I never will give it a second chance |
| 14:25.32 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer: touche. |
| 14:26.12 | DocScrutinizer | though I heard the immanent problems are all the same still |
| 14:27.16 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.193) |
| 14:28.27 | DocScrutinizer | fapman might work for "standard" pkgs and tasks. There are however pkgs *known* to fail with fapman |
| 14:28.52 | merlin1991 | and there's the fun with autoremove |
| 14:28.57 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@202.84-48-230.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | and fapman is known to occasionally do actions it better never did |
| 14:29.02 | k273 | oh sure. I have this trouble with 'immvibe' iirc and it only can be removed thru terminal |
| 14:29.06 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, that'S what I ment |
| 14:29.28 | DocScrutinizer | meant* |
| 14:29.54 | k273 | but still better from the original pkg man that takes aeons to load |
| 14:29.58 | k273 | imo |
| 14:30.27 | DocScrutinizer | plus it seems fapman doesn't run apt in run-standalone.sh environment, so any postinst notifiers etc will fail |
| 14:30.57 | lolcat | fapman? What a strange name |
| 14:31.23 | DocScrutinizer | the developer seems to have chosen this name very carefully ;-P |
| 14:31.29 | merlin1991 | lolcat: had quite a backlash on tmo when it first came out :D |
| 14:32.41 | Hurrian | was the dev aware of that? |
| 14:33.08 | DocScrutinizer | k273: well, if you prefer 2h of fixing your installation to waiting 5min for proper HAM to build up the dependencies database, it's up to your preferences |
| 14:33.58 | DocScrutinizer | who *was* (is) the dev anyway? |
| 14:34.11 | lolcat | tmo? |
| 14:34.16 | k273 | lol @very carefully choosing the name |
| 14:34.17 | DocScrutinizer | ~tmo |
| 14:34.18 | infobot | i heard tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or trolls, morons, oxes |
| 14:34.29 | k273 | oxes? |
| 14:34.52 | merlin1991 | yes oxes |
| 14:35.08 | k273 | meaning? |
| 14:35.19 | DocScrutinizer | probably an ancient word for neutered bull |
| 14:35.27 | k273 | eh lol nvm |
| 14:35.46 | merlin1991 | btw afaik it's oxen not oxes |
| 14:35.57 | merlin1991 | being ox iwth a plural of oxen |
| 14:36.08 | DocScrutinizer | seems about right |
| 14:36.23 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or trolls, morons, oxen |
| 14:36.23 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 14:36.30 | *** join/#maemo madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu) |
| 14:36.36 | lolcat | Can I edit the bot? |
| 14:36.49 | DocScrutinizer | no, I'll advise it to ignore you |
| 14:36.54 | k273 | DocScrutinizer: you mean there's another (better) terminal emulator and pkg man for N900? |
| 14:37.00 | DocScrutinizer | ~lock tmo |
| 14:37.00 | infobot | locking factoid tmo, DocScrutinizer |
| 14:38.18 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: How come? |
| 14:38.36 | Hurrian | ~botsnack |
| 14:38.36 | infobot | :), Hurrian |
| 14:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | you're notorious to abuse the bot in a very infantile way |
| 14:39.19 | k273 | *cough* DocScrutinizer, my question? *cough* |
| 14:39.22 | k273 | XD |
| 14:39.43 | DocScrutinizer | k273: sorry, I don't get that Q |
| 14:39.59 | DocScrutinizer | better pkg manager: HAM |
| 14:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | terminal emulator == xterm |
| 14:40.38 | k273 | xterm, sure |
| 14:41.03 | DocScrutinizer | aka osso-terminal whatever |
| 14:41.13 | k273 | yes |
| 14:41.21 | DocScrutinizer | there are alternatives, but mostly lightweight |
| 14:41.27 | k273 | no wonder you said I'd still be doing 2hrs on fapman |
| 14:41.33 | k273 | likes lightweight |
| 14:41.53 | DocScrutinizer | I never said this |
| 14:41.58 | k273 | not a hardcore user, anyway |
| 14:42.14 | DocScrutinizer | I said you're doing 2h+ *after* fapman messed up your system |
| 14:42.43 | lolcat | DocScrutinizer: I have never used the bot |
| 14:43.08 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: if my memory fails, then sorry |
| 14:43.28 | DocScrutinizer | I'd have to check chanlogs as of 1 year+ ago |
| 14:44.01 | DocScrutinizer | lolcat: yes, basically everybody can edit infobot factoids |
| 14:44.20 | DocScrutinizer | you're not supposed to do so on a silly random basis though |
| 14:44.39 | k273 | oh DocScrutinizer: my system had never been messed up by fapman. If anything, it only made it feel good. |
| 14:44.44 | DocScrutinizer | esp it's usually no good style to hijack existing factoid keys and redefine them |
| 14:45.01 | Sicelo | win 30 |
| 14:45.07 | Sicelo | meh.. sorry |
| 14:45.33 | k273 | I thought it might be in the year 3000 |
| 14:45.33 | DocScrutinizer | k273: well, you're still in for the pelasure then |
| 14:45.45 | k273 | XD |
| 14:46.46 | DocScrutinizer | k273: though odds are fapman already *did* mess up your system, and you just didn't notice yet |
| 14:46.55 | k273 | such as? |
| 14:47.07 | DocScrutinizer | such as e.g. SIP failing |
| 14:47.24 | k273 | SIP? |
| 14:47.39 | DocScrutinizer | *sigh* see what I mean? |
| 14:47.49 | k273 | I see that alright |
| 14:47.51 | k273 | XD |
| 14:48.00 | k273 | if you be so kind to elaborate? |
| 14:48.06 | DocScrutinizer | ~sip |
| 14:48.06 | infobot | well, sip is Session Initiation Protocol, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/ (see RFC 3261) It's HIP to be SIP! |
| 14:48.14 | DocScrutinizer | aka VoIP |
| 14:48.19 | k273 | oh |
| 14:48.21 | DocScrutinizer | *NOT* skype |
| 14:48.26 | k273 | yes |
| 14:48.38 | k273 | I never VoIP nor Skype |
| 14:48.54 | DocScrutinizer | then odds are you never notice fapman breaking it |
| 14:49.01 | k273 | just as u said. |
| 14:49.07 | k273 | wait |
| 14:49.20 | k273 | I have this problem: |
| 14:49.59 | DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70875&highlight=sip |
| 14:50.37 | k273 | my root still has 50-60MB available, but anytime I want to install new programs or update existing ones it always said 'phone memory' (or something like that) full. |
| 14:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: |
| 14:50.44 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:51.06 | k273 | looool |
| 14:51.12 | k273 | yeah I see what you mean |
| 14:51.17 | DocScrutinizer | all those get occasionally autoremoved by fapman, and it's up to you to figure what of your device's functions will fail on that |
| 14:51.31 | k273 | kk |
| 14:53.53 | k273 | so back to my problem |
| 14:53.57 | k273 | my root still has 50-60MB available, but anytime I want to install new programs or update existing ones it always said 'phone memory' (or something like that) full. |
| 14:54.13 | k273 | does that has anything to do with fapman? |
| 14:54.13 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@20.132.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:54.17 | DocScrutinizer | df -h |
| 14:54.22 | k273 | wait |
| 14:54.37 | DocScrutinizer | df -h /home |
| 14:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | even |
| 14:55.21 | DocScrutinizer | (does that has anything to do with fapman?) easy to rule out, do same thing via HAM |
| 14:55.32 | k273 | yes |
| 14:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | you'll just have to live with the lost 5min of your life time |
| 14:56.18 | k273 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:56.27 | DocScrutinizer | that's your answer then |
| 14:57.09 | k273 | how do I rectify this thing? |
| 14:57.14 | DocScrutinizer | now please don't ask how to clean /opt, as I can't give any sound advice |
| 14:57.50 | DocScrutinizer | you probably just installed too many poorly written monster apps |
| 14:57.52 | k273 | mmcblkxxx is also 99% but i think it isn't the issue |
| 14:58.06 | k273 | i see DocScrutinizer |
| 14:58.14 | DocScrutinizer | well that's /home aka /opt |
| 14:58.24 | k273 | yes |
| 14:58.31 | DocScrutinizer | mmcblk0p2 or sth |
| 14:58.41 | k273 | yes |
| 14:59.05 | DocScrutinizer | you either got a lot of litter in your $HOME |
| 14:59.15 | k273 | mhhmm? |
| 14:59.28 | DocScrutinizer | or you spammed /opt with installations of apps that load off lots of data like maps etc there |
| 14:59.33 | DocScrutinizer | games often do |
| 14:59.41 | k273 | I see |
| 14:59.47 | k273 | fsck games |
| 14:59.58 | DocScrutinizer | du -sh /opt |
| 14:59.58 | k273 | i'll delete them all |
| 15:00.15 | DocScrutinizer | wait |
| 15:00.24 | jonwil | best advice to free up space on /opt is to remove apps you no longer want |
| 15:00.27 | jonwil | uninstall them |
| 15:00.36 | chem|st | "kill'em all and let god sort'em out" hehe |
| 15:00.58 | chem|st | have a nice weekend |
| 15:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | du -shx /opt |
| 15:01.14 | DocScrutinizer | du -shx /home |
| 15:01.18 | DocScrutinizer | du -shx /home/user |
| 15:01.32 | chem|st | is off to the 3rd wedding saturday in a row... |
| 15:01.34 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: o/ |
| 15:01.41 | DocScrutinizer | yay, fun |
| 15:01.50 | chem|st | 8D |
| 15:02.01 | DocScrutinizer | what you gonna wear? |
| 15:02.43 | k273 | while cleaning the phone? |
| 15:02.51 | k273 | prolly just a tshirt and a short |
| 15:02.54 | k273 | XD |
| 15:02.56 | DocScrutinizer | k273: a du -hx /opt might give you a clue |
| 15:03.35 | k273 | tell me about it DocScrutinizer |
| 15:03.49 | k273 | you helped me a lot and I don't know how to say thanks |
| 15:04.10 | DocScrutinizer | k273: du -x /opt|sort -n |
| 15:04.12 | k273 | already seeing rows of unending files here |
| 15:04.28 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (~snoopy@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait) |
| 15:04.51 | DocScrutinizer | du -hx /opt|less |
| 15:05.49 | DocScrutinizer | du -hsx /opt/*|less |
| 15:06.00 | DocScrutinizer | du -hsx /opt/*/* |
| 15:08.27 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, just in case: in less pressing "h" gives help, "q" quits |
| 15:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | space and "b" page down and up |
| 15:08.54 | *** join/#maemo this_silent_man (~Zerosubs@182.10.168.229) |
| 15:09.55 | DocScrutinizer | cursor keys do what you'd expect them to do |
| 15:10.24 | k273 | sorry DocScrutinizer |
| 15:10.26 | k273 | dced |
| 15:10.31 | DocScrutinizer | oops |
| 15:10.38 | k273 | yeah |
| 15:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 15:11.04 | k273 | okay I better sort my programs out now |
| 15:11.54 | k273 | you've been of great help, DocScrutinizer thanks a lot |
| 15:12.05 | DocScrutinizer | but basically I just suggested you use >> du -hsx /opt/* << and >> du -x /opt|sort -n|less << |
| 15:12.17 | k273 | yes |
| 15:12.43 | k273 | I already can see the monsters |
| 15:12.49 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 15:13.16 | k273 | shoulda shown up here from the very first beginning of my n900 purchase |
| 15:13.20 | k273 | tsk |
| 15:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | now just find out which app to uninstall to get rid of those |
| 15:13.29 | k273 | yes |
| 15:13.35 | k273 | thanks a lot, DocScrutinizer |
| 15:13.39 | k273 | =) |
| 15:13.39 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 15:13.58 | k273 | have a good day, I have a long night before me XD |
| 15:14.07 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 15:14.22 | DocScrutinizer | tries to get afk and do some nice shopping |
| 15:14.48 | merlin1991 | nice and shopping in the same sentence? |
| 15:14.59 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: :-S |
| 15:15.34 | DocScrutinizer | in the former days shopping been a joy, now it's basically a PITA no matter which approach you take |
| 15:15.53 | merlin1991 | as fast as possible seems to be the best approach for me |
| 15:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | that's the plan |
| 15:16.48 | DocScrutinizer | rush in, get 2 pcs wrangler $MY-JEANS-SIZE, out afap |
| 15:17.58 | DocScrutinizer | I might even avoid trying in |
| 15:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 15:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | bbl |
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| 15:56.22 | lardman | heads home |
| 15:56.26 | lardman | have a nice evening all |
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| 15:59.43 | lokimotive | hey |
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| 16:10.29 | freemangordon | Pali, ping |
| 16:10.40 | Pali | freemangordon, pong |
| 16:11.06 | freemangordon | Pali, I am trying to build u-boot, have the error Unmet build dependencies: kernel-bootimg |
| 16:11.26 | freemangordon | installign kernel-power-booting didn't help |
| 16:11.31 | Pali | ah, yes |
| 16:11.38 | freemangordon | :) |
| 16:12.52 | Pali | freemangordon, dsc package of kernel-bootimg is now on: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
| 16:13.02 | freemangordon | Pali, well, I could use the old "make" method, no worries. |
| 16:13.12 | Pali | it contains only zImage of stock nokia kernel |
| 16:13.24 | freemangordon | Anyway, I need KP50 :) |
| 16:13.38 | freemangordon | will do it by hand |
| 16:14.11 | Pali | if you want to create combined image u-boot + kp50 (not nokia stock kernel) replace path of stock zImage with kp image |
| 16:14.22 | Pali | u-boot use this image for kernel /boot/zImage-2.6.28-omap1 |
| 16:14.30 | Pali | when creating combined image |
| 16:14.43 | freemangordon | Pali, I now hout to do it, no worries |
| 16:14.50 | freemangordon | *how |
| 16:15.06 | Pali | ok |
| 16:15.40 | freemangordon | Pali, I great berakthrough re thumb2 - it turned out that a bit in Aux ctrl register which needs to be set in order arm thumb errata to take effect is not allowed to be written by kernel ;) |
| 16:16.16 | freemangordon | But... there is SMC call for that, and it works perfect when called from u-boot |
| 16:16.58 | Pali | so I belive that thumb2 will work :) |
| 16:17.22 | Pali | btw, why it is not possible to enable it in kernel? |
| 16:18.03 | Pali | u-boot load kernel image and start executing it |
| 16:18.06 | freemangordon | because it is not accessible outside of the secure world, check here http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0344k/Bgbffjhh.html. |
| 16:18.34 | freemangordon | And kernel is running in non-secure world |
| 16:19.43 | freemangordon | but the code is like it is in secure. I will re-write the patch to issue a SMC call, instead of directly write to C0 co-processor |
| 16:20.15 | freemangordon | But first I want to see how will Ubuntu behave when IBE bit is set |
| 16:20.36 | freemangordon | with its 3.x kernel |
| 16:21.14 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.193) |
| 16:24.55 | Pali | freemangordon, if thumb2 will be work, can we compile kernel with thumb support? |
| 16:25.24 | freemangordon | I think yes, but why we need that? |
| 16:26.47 | freemangordon | Pali, I am going to prepare a patch for u-boot which enables IBE bit |
| 16:27.11 | freemangordon | will make a MR when ready |
| 16:27.46 | Pali | freemangordon, if we decrease size of kernel image, we can increase size of u-boot and enable support for onenand code (e.g. ubifs rootfs reading, flashing, ...) |
| 16:28.23 | freemangordon | aah, yes. |
| 16:28.59 | freemangordon | Pali, but I think first we should confirm thumb to be stable :D |
| 16:29.06 | Pali | yes |
| 16:46.04 | freemangordon | Pali, you've lowered the boot menu delay, where I am supposed to increase it? |
| 16:46.35 | Pali | include/configs/nokia_rx51.h search for bootmenu_dealy |
| 16:46.40 | Pali | *delay |
| 16:46.49 | freemangordon | ok, thanks |
| 16:47.13 | freemangordon | Pali, not this one |
| 16:47.31 | freemangordon | I meant the delay for the screen where die id is shown |
| 16:47.48 | Pali | I did not touched that |
| 16:48.04 | Pali | so maybe some upstream changes... |
| 16:48.17 | freemangordon | aaah, I had some mmc errors, that is why it was taking about 5 secs or so :( |
| 16:48.18 | Pali | ... I rebased rx51 patches more times on u-boot master |
| 16:48.33 | freemangordon | and it is fixed now :) |
| 16:48.48 | Pali | you can disable autostart bootmenu |
| 16:49.02 | Pali | and you will see all messages |
| 16:49.30 | Pali | you can start bootmenu in u-boot console (command bootmenu) |
| 16:49.47 | freemangordon | how? |
| 16:50.25 | freemangordon | btw is there some delay() or sleep() function? |
| 16:51.50 | Pali | #define CONFIG_MENUCMD - this enable bootmenu |
| 16:52.06 | freemangordon | ok, thanks |
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| 17:05.39 | freemangordon | Pali, is it possible to move bootmenu by few lines down? |
| 17:05.45 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-122-126-177-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 17:06.14 | Pali | what do you mean? move down and do not clean first N lines? |
| 17:06.23 | freemangordon | yep |
| 17:06.34 | Pali | uh, maybe yes, but needs rewrite code |
| 17:06.40 | Pali | now u-boot clearing full screen |
| 17:06.46 | freemangordon | so we can have a nice screen with die id and cpu info |
| 17:06.48 | Pali | not trivial |
| 17:07.06 | Pali | if you run u-boot console you can show this info |
| 17:07.17 | freemangordon | btw print_cpuinfor is enabled in config, but never caleld |
| 17:07.31 | freemangordon | how? |
| 17:07.48 | Pali | in u-boot console run: bdinfo |
| 17:08.04 | freemangordon | no, that gives a totally different info |
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| 17:30.15 | freemangordon | Pali, here https://www.gitorious.org/~freemangordon/u-boot-shr/freemangordons-u-boot |
| 17:30.24 | freemangordon | shall I request a nerge? |
| 17:30.36 | freemangordon | s/nerge/merge |
| 17:31.04 | Pali | I will rebase your changes |
| 17:31.22 | Pali | upstream u-boot devs wants clear patches |
| 17:31.32 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.49.162.232) |
| 17:31.38 | Pali | so I will mix them |
| 17:31.49 | freemangordon | But i cloned your branch an hour ago |
| 17:32.23 | freemangordon | what needs to be rebased |
| 17:33.03 | Pali | your changes |
| 17:33.15 | Pali | mix your changes into rx51 board commit |
| 17:33.39 | Pali | u-boot devs do not want to see new board code in more patches |
| 17:33.57 | freemangordon | Pali, ok, it is up to you |
| 17:33.59 | freemangordon | :) |
| 17:34.03 | Pali | yes :) |
| 17:34.17 | freemangordon | but lets first see if it has any effect in Ubuntu |
| 17:35.01 | Pali | ok |
| 17:35.09 | Pali | I found one problem in your patch |
| 17:35.23 | freemangordon | which is? |
| 17:35.33 | Pali | you converting emu_hal_params_rx51 to u32* |
| 17:36.05 | freemangordon | that function is copy/cat from original u-boot code, let me find the function |
| 17:36.14 | freemangordon | ok, almost |
| 17:36.43 | freemangordon | yeah, search for omap3_emu_romcode_call |
| 17:36.44 | Pali | in C specification is written that between more variables in struct can be some placeholder |
| 17:37.09 | Pali | so you cannot cast struct { int, int, int, int } to int[4] |
| 17:37.29 | freemangordon | Pali, I used the code already present in u-boot, search for the above function |
| 17:37.41 | Pali | ok |
| 17:37.58 | freemangordon | Plai, it is not emu_hal_params_rx51 but &emu_hal_params_rx51 |
| 17:38.16 | freemangordon | Pali ^^^ |
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| 17:38.39 | freemangordon | ok, &emu_romcode_params |
| 17:38.53 | Jade | hi |
| 17:38.56 | freemangordon | Or I am not understanding |
| 17:38.58 | Pali | struct { int first, int second, int third }, between "first" and "seconds" can be some padding |
| 17:39.13 | Pali | compiler can add some free space between struct variables |
| 17:39.38 | Pali | so this struct is not same as array of 3 integers |
| 17:40.04 | freemangordon | aah, now I got it. Yes, in theory, but oroginal u-boot code uses the same |
| 17:40.53 | Pali | could be, gcc in this case (for integers) maybe do not add nothing |
| 17:41.14 | freemangordon | you can search for emu_hal_params (without _rx51) for the original declaration |
| 17:41.17 | Pali | but correct code is: struct { int first:32, int second:32, int third:32 } |
| 17:41.33 | freemangordon | ok, agree |
| 17:41.53 | freemangordon | well, change it then |
| 17:41.56 | Pali | when adding info about bits (:32) then compiler mustnt add space |
| 17:41.58 | Pali | ok |
| 17:42.35 | freemangordon | Pali, would you do the same patch in KP? |
| 17:43.47 | freemangordon | Pali, BTW what we were discussing is called "structure member aligment" and the default aligment is the CPU word size AFAIK |
| 17:43.56 | freemangordon | or byte aligment |
| 17:44.22 | freemangordon | in either cases there would be no extra bytes in the structure we were discussing |
| 17:44.52 | freemangordon | no matter of the compiler |
| 17:45.08 | freemangordon | *alignment |
| 17:45.31 | Pali | I think that in C language specification is not written more, only that compiler may add |
| 17:47.43 | freemangordon | anyway, I agree that your notation is better, maybe upstream on omap3/board.c should be fixed too(or wherever the original structure declaration was) |
| 17:48.39 | freemangordon | Pali, would you prepare a new u-boot version, so the guys with installed Ubuntu to test it and confirm if it solves SIGILL crashes |
| 17:49.03 | Pali | ok |
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| 17:59.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: (struct member alignment) this depends on arch, and is generally a very poor idea to exploit or rely on, outside of #ifdef armel |
| 18:00.09 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, agree, I am not arguing about it |
| 18:00.41 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, BTW did you read backscroll? |
| 18:01.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | since 18:00 (cest) |
| 18:01.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm still not too happy about general switching to thumb(2) |
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| 18:02.10 | freemangordon | Well, lets see how much slower it will be once thumb errata actually works |
| 18:02.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | since exactly stuff like the above alignment and similar would possibly break on such switch |
| 18:02.21 | freemangordon | and what is your reasoning? |
| 18:02.37 | freemangordon | no, interworking should be ok |
| 18:03.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | you say *should* |
| 18:03.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | :-P |
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| 18:03.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | I say 'risk' |
| 18:04.22 | freemangordon | well, if the compiler works, then I see no reason. BTW have in mind I was running thumb2 compiled stuff on my primary device for a month or so without actually errata to be enabled |
| 18:04.39 | freemangordon | errata workaround |
| 18:05.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, RL results are basically indetermined when doing such a switch |
| 18:06.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | you're entering a whole new world with none of your system rocks been tested yet |
| 18:06.37 | freemangordon | wanders what exactly TI guy who wrote the workaround was thinking, when it is clearly stated in ARM docs that IBE bit is not accessible from outside the secure world |
| 18:06.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | and all your verification for now is you running it on one machine with your selection of usecases |
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| 18:07.21 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, there is no verification at all so far :). |
| 18:07.43 | freemangordon | It is yet to be done |
| 18:07.58 | freemangordon | once we have all the pieces together |
| 18:08.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | users are reluctant to jump on CSSU and start to blame it for random faults they run into |
| 18:08.33 | freemangordon | (u-boot, kernel with errata workaround enabled and thumb-compiled binaries) |
| 18:08.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | figure what's the tak when we switch to thumb globally |
| 18:08.38 | freemangordon | so? |
| 18:08.54 | freemangordon | it will be no different |
| 18:08.59 | freemangordon | difference* |
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| 18:09.15 | freemangordon | complainers will complain |
| 18:09.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | it will, as then we can't answer 'cssu is NOT touching ICD' |
| 18:09.49 | freemangordon | and we can always revert, if it turns out to be unstable at the end |
| 18:10.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | thumb switch touches everything |
| 18:10.15 | freemangordon | ICD? |
| 18:10.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm not going to evaluate if it's stable |
| 18:11.00 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, noone forces you, there is cssu-devel repo for that stuff |
| 18:11.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | a switch to thumb is definitely WAAAY beyond the scope of CSSU |
| 18:11.40 | Pali | freemangordon, u-boot deb packages are updated here: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/u-boot/ |
| 18:11.50 | Pali | not tested yes, because my n900 is charging now |
| 18:11.54 | Pali | *yet |
| 18:11.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | you rather should start a fork and call it tinymaemo |
| 18:12.03 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, well, lets leave that discussion for the next CSSU team meeting |
| 18:12.26 | Pali | when will be next meeting? |
| 18:12.27 | freemangordon | It is not only me and you who decide that stuff |
| 18:12.40 | freemangordon | Pali, NFC, but there should be one :) |
| 18:12.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's neither of us |
| 18:12.49 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 18:12.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's already defined |
| 18:13.26 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, really, I don't want to continue that discussion here and now |
| 18:13.40 | Pali | freemangordon, try if u-boot image is working |
| 18:13.48 | freemangordon | Pali, ok |
| 18:13.49 | Pali | and if fixing thumb |
| 18:14.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | this is definitely no 'update' to ship bugfixes or augment functionality, in a sense of SSU continued by Comunity |
| 18:14.16 | Pali | my battery is totally empty... |
| 18:14.24 | freemangordon | Pali, Ubuntu is still installing :( |
| 18:14.41 | Pali | where is image of ubuntu? |
| 18:15.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | btw I fail to see how uBoot can do things that kernel couldn't |
| 18:15.38 | Pali | I'd like to prepair one partition of sd card for ubuntu before battery will charge |
| 18:16.30 | freemangordon | use the instructions from here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82819 |
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| 18:17.21 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, we have the patch only for u-boot so far |
| 18:17.30 | freemangordon | read the backscroll again :) |
| 18:18.06 | freemangordon | [20:40] <freemangordon> Pali, would you do the same patch in KP? |
| 18:18.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51 ^^^ |
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| 18:19.25 | Pali | freemangordon, I have not idea in which file/section/function can be added similar kernel patch |
| 18:19.39 | freemangordon | Pali, GF came, won't have time to test u-boot now :) |
| 18:19.59 | Pali | ok |
| 18:20.00 | freemangordon | Pali, ok, I will do it (not that I have idea :D ) |
| 18:21.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: I'd say the fact you weren't able to find/build a clear testcase to reproduce the thumb problem during that months you're running it without patches, well that's rather unfortunate as it doesn't provide any method to even test your patches for efficience |
| 18:23.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | the reason why thumb isn't used so far, the reason for any mutex in kernel, the reason for checking maloc returncode - all the same to make system not break on those rare niche cases |
| 18:24.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51, will test Ubuntu 12.04 for at least initial testing, lets see how it will behave, will think of more cmplicated test cases after Ubuntu does not SIGILL |
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| 18:24.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | we're not interested in a 'runs 99.8% of the time' system. That's what we got with windows |
| 18:28.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | somebody found there's a problem, he probably managed to deliver a trace where that problem gets visible, and common sense been to avoid thumb to fix the issue. If you want to come up with a patch, you need a testcase that proves efficiency of that patch |
| 18:29.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | 'running system for one month without issues' obviusly isn't, as you stated by your own comment |
| 18:31.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | you need a testbed that 100% reproduces the problem when your patch is missing, and of course your patch needs to change it to 100% OK |
| 18:33.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | then we still have general risk associated to such a switch in architecture, which by itself will rule out doing that migration for productive systems |
| 18:34.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | we've seen things break more than once on 'simpler' transitions like e.g. a mere update of gcc |
| 18:42.13 | kerio | 99.8% of the times, it works 100% of the time |
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| 20:04.14 | f3bruary | hi guys |
| 20:04.52 | f3bruary | beford, hi |
| 20:05.00 | beford | sup |
| 20:05.01 | beford | xD |
| 20:05.38 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 20:06.01 | f3bruary | My n900 got stuck in a reboot loop after trying to install pwnphone image. I reflashed emmc+rootfs. Now every reboot start at wizard and SIM card is not detected |
| 20:06.09 | f3bruary | can anybody help ? |
| 20:08.27 | *** join/#maemo ekze (~nyan@bakaekze.ru) |
| 20:08.37 | f3bruary | not everybody at once... |
| 20:09.21 | beford | you may need to wait a little |
| 20:09.55 | f3bruary | 286 people and you have to wait ? |
| 20:10.12 | f3bruary | :( |
| 20:13.44 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 20:15.23 | Sicelo | lol |
| 20:15.31 | Sicelo | ~ask |
| 20:15.32 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 20:15.53 | Sicelo | f3bruary: we all have Real Lives |
| 20:16.14 | f3bruary | really ? |
| 20:16.34 | f3bruary | infobot, have you seen Agobot ? |
| 20:17.02 | f3bruary | Sicelo, How can I make my question more detailed ? |
| 20:17.20 | Sicelo | what's pwphone image? |
| 20:17.27 | f3bruary | google it |
| 20:17.42 | f3bruary | suite of pentesting tools |
| 20:17.55 | Sazpaimon | why is the harmattan forum on TMO still described as "The future release, codenamed Harmattan. |
| 20:17.55 | Sazpaimon | " |
| 20:19.07 | Sicelo | hah! now i must google |
| 20:19.58 | f3bruary | I googles too... |
| 20:20.12 | f3bruary | hard to search for " n900 stuck in wizard loop" |
| 20:20.24 | f3bruary | googled* |
| 20:20.32 | *** join/#maemo koo4 (~koo@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 20:21.18 | Sicelo | f3bruary: |
| 20:21.21 | Sicelo | ~flashing |
| 20:21.21 | infobot | hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 20:21.29 | f3bruary | followed it |
| 20:21.31 | Sicelo | ^^ flash them in the correct order |
| 20:21.34 | f3bruary | I did |
| 20:23.00 | f3bruary | this too http://www.mynokian900.com/2011/03/flashing-the-emmc-rootfs-on-my-nokia-n900 |
| 20:23.22 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@35.41.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 20:25.01 | DocScrutinizer | f3bruary: basically nobody here can help you with pwnphone |
| 20:25.28 | DocScrutinizer | a full reflash usually shall fix things |
| 20:25.44 | DocScrutinizer | if it doesn't, you failed on correct full flashing procedure |
| 20:25.58 | f3bruary | like I said, I did that, so there's no trace of pwnphone so I don't believe that's the issue |
| 20:26.08 | f3bruary | I don't need help with pwnphone |
| 20:26.11 | f3bruary | I reflashed |
| 20:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | it's probably beyond this channel's scope to make pwnphone work |
| 20:26.15 | f3bruary | multiple times |
| 20:26.33 | DocScrutinizer | see above then, you did something wrong |
| 20:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | on flashing |
| 20:26.42 | f3bruary | hmm |
| 20:26.53 | f3bruary | It's not that hard |
| 20:27.00 | f3bruary | how can I do it wrong |
| 20:27.03 | DocScrutinizer | there's no known instance where flashing didn't help to fix sw induced problems |
| 20:27.11 | f3bruary | ok |
| 20:27.23 | f3bruary | well has anybody experienced this problem ? |
| 20:27.29 | DocScrutinizer | (how can I do it wrong) you'd be amazed to see what we've seen here |
| 20:27.33 | f3bruary | wizard each reboot... |
| 20:27.46 | DocScrutinizer | well, this wizard is normal |
| 20:27.54 | f3bruary | not every time... |
| 20:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | if it's date/time/locale wizard |
| 20:28.03 | DocScrutinizer | of maemo |
| 20:28.04 | f3bruary | yeah |
| 20:28.18 | f3bruary | but now it does it every time I reboot |
| 20:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | that's odd |
| 20:28.40 | f3bruary | that's the issue |
| 20:28.48 | Sicelo | f3bruary: because your battery is probably loose .. i get that recently on mine too |
| 20:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | it should do that only whan your realtime clock failed, which it isn't supposed to do unless you remove battery |
| 20:29.54 | f3bruary | well, that's kinda weird, but I just moved those 2 pieces that hold the battery to keep it tighter |
| 20:30.02 | f3bruary | cause it has always been loose |
| 20:30.23 | f3bruary | I hated that it fell out each time I removed the cover |
| 20:30.26 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest to remove battery for >2h and then re-insert and reboot, and see if RTC got fixed in a way it will survive next boot |
| 20:30.48 | DocScrutinizer | errr |
| 20:31.25 | DocScrutinizer | what exactly did you do to battery and sisters? |
| 20:31.34 | f3bruary | sisters ? |
| 20:31.38 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 20:32.32 | DocScrutinizer | did you just bend the steel latches at "bottom" end of battery? |
| 20:32.39 | f3bruary | yeah a little |
| 20:32.44 | f3bruary | tiny bit |
| 20:32.46 | DocScrutinizer | should be safe |
| 20:32.56 | f3bruary | cause the battery was too loose |
| 20:33.03 | f3bruary | now it holds it better |
| 20:33.04 | DocScrutinizer | I did as well, on a used phone I recently bought |
| 20:33.11 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 20:33.13 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 20:33.46 | DocScrutinizer | check your battery contacts, they might get tired |
| 20:34.03 | f3bruary | I just pushed them back a little |
| 20:34.35 | f3bruary | now it's the same again |
| 20:34.40 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. the distance between the spring on left and on right side of each contact slot in battery should be considerably lower than thickness of the battery contact blades |
| 20:34.41 | f3bruary | let's see if that helps |
| 20:34.44 | f3bruary | which I doubt |
| 20:35.14 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-174-117.as13285.net) |
| 20:35.20 | DocScrutinizer | they might even touch |
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| 20:35.44 | f3bruary | hmm it's going to the wizard, which is expected |
| 20:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | inserting something into the slot that's either not centered or simply "too thick" will bend those springs apart, and this can cause lots of troubles |
| 20:36.40 | f3bruary | oh yeah, and it still won't detect the SIM card |
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| 20:37.29 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, another unrelated problem? |
| 20:37.39 | Sicelo | of course SIM is another problem. reboot now to see that you won't get wizard again |
| 20:37.45 | f3bruary | not that I noticed so far |
| 20:37.54 | f3bruary | temporarily it could not start apps |
| 20:38.00 | f3bruary | but that's over now |
| 20:38.13 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 20:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 20:38.30 | Sicelo | looks like your N900 has been throught a lot .. |
| 20:38.37 | DocScrutinizer | could you try booting without SIM? |
| 20:38.50 | DocScrutinizer | tehn rebooting without SIM and without removing battery |
| 20:39.03 | DocScrutinizer | and see if wizard on 2nd boot |
| 20:39.08 | f3bruary | I think it's going for the wizard again |
| 20:39.13 | f3bruary | long loading time |
| 20:39.25 | DocScrutinizer | (obviously on first boot wizard is expected no matter what you did to fix the problem) |
| 20:39.57 | f3bruary | this is the first reboot after bending the battery thingies back |
| 20:40.09 | f3bruary | have yet to try with removeing sim |
| 20:40.29 | DocScrutinizer | first do the second boot for bending action |
| 20:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | to check |
| 20:40.42 | f3bruary | that's what I'm doing now |
| 20:40.44 | DocScrutinizer | only then try SIM removal |
| 20:40.47 | DocScrutinizer | with 2 boots |
| 20:40.59 | f3bruary | hmm |
| 20:41.02 | f3bruary | no wizard |
| 20:41.09 | Sicelo | toldya :P |
| 20:41.11 | f3bruary | but the loading took longer than usual |
| 20:41.23 | f3bruary | this is still with sim inserted |
| 20:41.59 | DocScrutinizer | does it take >60s from "NOKIA" to moving-dots to black screen to something reasonable on screen? |
| 20:42.17 | f3bruary | the nokia screen passes fast |
| 20:42.25 | f3bruary | then 60+ sec for dots |
| 20:42.31 | DocScrutinizer | well, "first time" boot takes some minutes |
| 20:42.45 | DocScrutinizer | that'S expected |
| 20:43.14 | f3bruary | this was a reboot |
| 20:43.18 | f3bruary | without taking battery out |
| 20:43.21 | DocScrutinizer | it's initializing several things on your system |
| 20:43.25 | f3bruary | so 2dn boot |
| 20:43.28 | f3bruary | 2nd* |
| 20:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | well, it was first boot without wizard |
| 20:43.42 | f3bruary | oh like that |
| 20:43.43 | f3bruary | ok |
| 20:43.46 | f3bruary | I'll reboot again |
| 20:43.57 | DocScrutinizer | don't be to stern with it ;-D |
| 20:44.02 | f3bruary | haha |
| 20:44.09 | f3bruary | it's a tough device |
| 20:44.22 | f3bruary | I bought it a while ago |
| 20:44.28 | f3bruary | december |
| 20:44.59 | DocScrutinizer | so what's status of SIM now? |
| 20:45.04 | f3bruary | I'm familiar with linux, so I could to cli stuff, play around with it much |
| 20:45.10 | f3bruary | still busy |
| 20:45.16 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
| 20:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | well, it's probably optifying things |
| 20:46.10 | f3bruary | +60 sec again |
| 20:46.16 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not all sure it likes getting interupted on optification process |
| 20:46.32 | f3bruary | I'm not |
| 20:46.44 | f3bruary | ok booted |
| 20:46.51 | f3bruary | still no sim detected |
| 20:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | without wizard? |
| 20:46.57 | f3bruary | yes |
| 20:47.11 | DocScrutinizer | what's the icon in status bar for SIM? |
| 20:47.28 | f3bruary | icon that looks like a sim card |
| 20:47.42 | f3bruary | I'm gonna explode if you tell me it means something else |
| 20:47.57 | DocScrutinizer | with a red bar across? |
| 20:48.02 | f3bruary | yeah |
| 20:48.14 | DocScrutinizer | means "no SIM", indeed |
| 20:48.18 | f3bruary | ah ok |
| 20:48.33 | f3bruary | shall I take it out ? |
| 20:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | might also mean "modem got general trouble" |
| 20:48.37 | Sicelo | tried a different sim on the N900? |
| 20:48.43 | f3bruary | no |
| 20:48.56 | DocScrutinizer | modem operating directly from battery |
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| 20:49.14 | f3bruary | I'm gonna shutdown and take SIM out |
| 20:49.30 | DocScrutinizer | so even short dropouts due to poor contact of battery will cause modem reset, which results in "no SIM" |
| 20:49.53 | DocScrutinizer | I gaher you boot with charger/PC plugged in? |
| 20:50.42 | f3bruary | no.. |
| 20:50.51 | f3bruary | it's almost full though |
| 20:50.53 | DocScrutinizer | oh, only battery? |
| 20:50.55 | f3bruary | yeah |
| 20:50.59 | DocScrutinizer | good |
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| 20:51.13 | DocScrutinizer | hi javispedro |
| 20:51.45 | javispedro | moo |
| 20:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | f3bruary: I suggest you make sure your 3 battery springs are tight (bend them ruthlessly with a pin or sth, until 2 arms almost touch) |
| 20:53.30 | DocScrutinizer | make sure for all 3 slots in battery. Then also check the device's contact blades |
| 20:53.34 | DocScrutinizer | clean them |
| 20:54.44 | f3bruary | isnt it dangerous to poke there ? |
| 20:54.45 | DocScrutinizer | then maybe reflash once again, and let system finish optification process (I.E. don't shut during/down after wizard, until maybe 10 min passed by) |
| 20:55.01 | f3bruary | if I get shocked I'll blame it on Sicelo |
| 20:55.03 | f3bruary | ;) |
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| 20:55.19 | DocScrutinizer | (dangerous) not that much if you don't insert the pin tip more than ~2mm |
| 20:55.40 | f3bruary | thats comforting |
| 20:56.59 | f3bruary | should I blow on my SIM for good luck ? |
| 20:57.30 | f3bruary | ok, booting |
| 20:57.41 | f3bruary | 5 sec, nokia screen... |
| 20:57.52 | f3bruary | dots, then black, then dots again |
| 20:59.13 | DocScrutinizer | normal |
| 20:59.50 | f3bruary | wizard... |
| 21:00.09 | f3bruary | damn |
| 21:00.14 | f3bruary | still no detection |
| 21:00.58 | f3bruary | I'm gonna continue configuring my device, add apps, remove junk etc. setting everyting |
| 21:01.14 | f3bruary | maybe after a few reboots it will be fine |
| 21:01.26 | DocScrutinizer | f3bruary: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20120504_002.jpg is what the springs should look like (sorry for the blurry pic) |
| 21:02.09 | f3bruary | looks the same |
| 21:02.15 | f3bruary | I dont have tiny tweezers |
| 21:02.25 | f3bruary | so can't do much about it |
| 21:02.37 | f3bruary | But I think they're fine |
| 21:02.44 | f3bruary | they were fine 5hrs ago |
| 21:03.49 | DocScrutinizer | then your problem is either (still/again) rootfs - naybe otification got messed up on first boot after flashing - or some lockup in RTC config possibly done by pwnphone |
| 21:05.31 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest removing battery for 2h (hoping any lockup in cmos config will get reset by that), plus a reflash again, then quietly waiting for first boot to finish its job before rebooting again |
| 21:05.44 | DocScrutinizer | do all this without SIM inserted |
| 21:05.51 | f3bruary | hmm |
| 21:05.52 | f3bruary | ok |
| 21:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | then REboot first time again without SIM, and see if wizard still shows up |
| 21:07.53 | DocScrutinizer | after that try a known good SIM. If all this fails at any stage, get a battery replacement |
| 21:08.01 | DocScrutinizer | at least for testing |
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| 21:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | (rationale: modem, on detecting SIM, will start to transmit to book in, which can cause a defect worn out battery to drop voltage temporarily to a point that may cause all the problems seen) |
| 21:10.37 | DocScrutinizer | waves and wishes good luck to f3bruary |
| 21:11.49 | f3bruary | waves back and thanks DocScrutinizer |
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| 21:53.28 | f3bruary | cool, after updates SIM is detected |
| 21:53.43 | f3bruary | I had a feeling it would |
| 21:54.07 | beford | weird |
| 21:54.13 | beford | but at least worked |
| 21:54.20 | beford | no more startup wizard at boot? |
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| 22:00.03 | f3bruary | no |
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| 22:37.23 | DocScrutinizer | dang, he's gone |
| 22:37.33 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, another saved soul :-) |
| 22:38.31 | Kilroo | Well, that's two places I've ordered a replacement BT8010 only to have them cancel my order because they're out of stock |
| 22:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 22:38.47 | Kilroo | The first one, at least, still didn't list them as out of stock when I checked afterward. |
| 22:39.05 | DocScrutinizer | suckers |
| 22:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | shopping is a PITA nowadays |
| 22:39.38 | Kilroo | I'd be willing to give up the LCD display, considering it doesn't entirely work anyhow, if I could find another model of over-the-ear headset that converts to stereo by plugging the other earpiece into it. |
| 22:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | Kilroo: I found their new headphones on their website. Says "bt *and* wired" |
| 22:40.31 | Kilroo | But so far the closest I can find is one where you plug an entire pair of earbuds into the earpiece and clip what was previously the earpiece to your shirt... |
| 22:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | definitely not same formfactor |
| 22:41.03 | DocScrutinizer | bah, a weak idea for a design |
| 22:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | I might like the fold-able headphone though |
| 22:42.21 | DocScrutinizer | it still offers dual-concurrent-connection, a killer feature |
| 22:42.53 | Kilroo | On the bright side, at least I still get some use from my old bluetooth headset I used to use with my n82 |
| 22:43.01 | DocScrutinizer | plus it has wired audio, which I like a lot as BT A2DP usually is of inferior quality to direct wired audio |
| 22:43.17 | Kilroo | It fits the n900 external battery charger that I got without realizing it didn't come with a power cord... |
| 22:43.26 | Kilroo | Or rather its charger does. |
| 22:51.29 | Kilroo | Hm. Ok, apparently I just had horrible search terms before. Now I'm finding several similar-ish models...although so far none with an earhook for the auxiliary earpiece, it doesn't look like. And I'm not really fond of stick-in-your-ear earbuds. |
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