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| 01:24.03 | szopinus | finally |
| 01:24.17 | szopinus | 300gb usb didn't boot |
| 01:24.24 | szopinus | dvds same |
| 01:24.47 | szopinus | 2gb stick finally worked |
| 01:25.13 | szopinus | should I upgrade 11.10 to 11.04 (not kidding, one of the options) |
| 01:25.22 | szopinus | or should I erase? |
| 01:26.34 | szopinus | going for erase, just in case |
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| 01:31.58 | Hurrian | @DocScrutinizer - another manufacturing defect? |
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| 01:38.08 | szopinus | hey Hurrian |
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| 02:29.37 | Hurrian | yeah? |
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| 02:44.37 | szop|zzz | hell yeah! tome compiled OK, SB is a go |
| 02:44.46 | szop|zzz | runs in SB window |
| 02:44.59 | szop|zzz | where is af-sb-init.sh btw? |
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| 02:45.35 | szop|zzz | ok, 3 hrs left to sleep, anyway, made it the same day, gnight folks |
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| 02:47.55 | szop|zzz | just for clarity sake: 11.04 seems ok (around 15-20 errors during sh installs, nothing critical it seems) |
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| 03:42.19 | Menger | ad-hoc wifi consumes 180mA here |
| 03:43.44 | Menger | it consumes 5mA for powersave managed mode |
| 03:44.04 | Menger | hald the system power |
| 03:44.07 | Menger | half |
| 03:45.07 | Menger | is there possibility to add powersave to adhoc? alternatively to add managed AP mode to driver? |
| 03:45.51 | SpeedEvil | No, and dunno |
| 03:46.30 | SpeedEvil | Adhoc means that you jsut put the interface in promisc mode, and listen for packets, and hope that tcp does the retransmits. |
| 03:46.44 | SpeedEvil | There is no scheduling which is required for powersave. |
| 03:47.45 | SpeedEvil | In principle you could roll your own protocol. |
| 03:47.52 | SpeedEvil | But it's not there by default |
| 03:48.28 | Menger | yes for w n900s |
| 03:51.10 | Menger | 2 |
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| 03:52.42 | Menger | very high power usage.. i do not see how listening consumes so much |
| 03:53.21 | SpeedEvil | Because it does. |
| 03:53.30 | SpeedEvil | Keeping the radio awake is expensive. |
| 03:53.55 | SpeedEvil | Use a normal AP, and turn powersave mode off |
| 03:57.21 | Menger | so i want a fully managed mode on n900 |
| 03:58.35 | SpeedEvil | Err - what? |
| 03:59.58 | Menger | for mobile hotspot |
| 04:01.28 | Menger | managed is some time division multiplexing? |
| 04:02.05 | Menger | is special/different wifi raio needed? |
| 04:02.13 | Menger | radio |
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| 04:18.06 | Menger | thank you for the information SpeedEvil |
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| 04:26.25 | SpeedEvil | You ... |
| 04:26.26 | SpeedEvil | ah |
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| 08:47.20 | magic_doc | talk is offline - again. |
| 08:47.31 | magic_doc | this sucks without end the third time this month |
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| 09:50.40 | ErwinJunge | Anyone here know what's up with tmo? |
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| 09:50.53 | psycho_oreos | <magic_doc> talk is offline - again. |
| 09:51.28 | ErwinJunge | Ok, so this is not scheduled maintainance or something like that? |
| 09:52.31 | psycho_oreos | probably not |
| 09:52.48 | psycho_oreos | fyi that was an annoyed user's complaint |
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| 09:54.47 | ErwinJunge | Thanks for the info. I guess since noone here knows it's probably not scheduled outage ;) |
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| 09:55.58 | psycho_oreos | I sort of have a belief that if there were any scheduled outage, it would be noted in the /topic. |
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| 09:57.32 | Lykkepillen | Hi guys, I'm looking to overclock my old N900 and was wandering if you could help me with an up-to-date guide? :) |
| 09:58.26 | psycho_oreos | have you done the necessary hardware modifications to ensure that your N900 won't fry up in the process? |
| 09:59.23 | Lykkepillen | I have done nothing - Was just looking at these old guides on talk.maemo.com (which seems to be down?) and they all seemed like it was a software hack only that wouldn't take more than 2 minutes |
| 10:00.32 | Lykkepillen | -Then i saw the name on the package they said to download "Enchanced Linux kernal for power users (obsolete)" with "Please REMOVE this package" in the desc. |
| 10:00.33 | psycho_oreos | its not exactly a software hack, it's more like replacing the kernel so that such options can be unlocked at user's expense |
| 10:01.25 | Lykkepillen | By user's expense you mean? |
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| 10:07.47 | psycho_oreos | dixi |
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| 10:10.09 | Lykkepillen | psycho_oreos - Do you have any guides or advice or anything? :) |
| 10:10.43 | Macer | heh |
| 10:10.54 | Macer | is nokia closing down maemo.org? |
| 10:12.26 | petteri | yes, in 2013 if I remember correctly |
| 10:16.07 | Lykkepillen | So.. Anyone else knows anything about overclocking of N900? |
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| 10:21.44 | BCMM | Lykkepillen: it will kill the device. |
| 10:21.56 | BCMM | Lykkepillen: the clock speed is not set for thermal or battery reasons. |
| 10:22.19 | Lykkepillen | It will? Thats why the kernel is being removed? |
| 10:22.54 | BCMM | well, it may not kill it quickly every time |
| 10:23.01 | BCMM | also, what kernel is being removed? |
| 10:23.21 | guly | BCMM: please explain "kill" meaning :) |
| 10:24.43 | BCMM | brick, destroy, eventually-cause-to-become-non-functional |
| 10:25.14 | psycho_oreos | if it doesn't kill, it will un-necessarily shortens the life of the device sporadically and exponentially depending on how high the user/owner sets |
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| 10:29.34 | Lykkepillen | BCMM From my post earlier: -Then i saw the name on the package they said to download "Enchanced Linux kernal for power users (obsolete)" with "Please REMOVE this package" in the desc. |
| 10:29.45 | Lykkepillen | -That's what the guide i found told me to download |
| 10:29.51 | BCMM | huh, kernel-power isn't gone is it? |
| 10:29.55 | BCMM | i thought it was part of cssu now |
| 10:30.36 | BCMM | it has all sorts of non-OC uses like iptables |
| 10:30.42 | Lykkepillen | No idea what cssu is - My phone didn't work for about a year and when i tried turning it on a few days ago it suddently powered up without problems - I'm outdated on all points |
| 10:30.56 | psycho_oreos | ~cssu |
| 10:30.57 | infobot | it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 10:32.18 | psycho_oreos | kernel-provides more than just that, it also incorporates class 10 microsdhc fixes, other improvements within memory management, etc |
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| 10:34.08 | Lykkepillen | So i should or shouln't overclock my device? It sounded almost like it was allmost risk-free when i read the guide, but that was from 2009 |
| 10:35.25 | psycho_oreos | you should question yourself is there ever a need to, and should also read up on the technical information in regards to the very same ARM Cortex A8 chipset inside that N900 |
| 10:36.02 | psycho_oreos | ~oc |
| 10:36.02 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, oc is an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s |
| 10:36.08 | psycho_oreos | ~overclocking |
| 10:36.08 | infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" |
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| 10:38.23 | Lykkepillen | Theres no need to overclock it. I'm simply doing this because It's possible. When the phone stopped working i bought a Samsung Galaxy S2 that I'm using ATM so the N900 is really just a toy |
| 10:39.49 | psycho_oreos | what do you mean stopped working? |
| 10:39.57 | Lykkepillen | It just didn't boot |
| 10:40.13 | Lykkepillen | Could have been some sort of water damage since it started working again |
| 10:41.08 | psycho_oreos | poor old device, soon it'll probably gain rust before it dies.. and to overclock it will quickly send it on the way to hell |
| 10:43.05 | Lykkepillen | Aw i hope not.. Was thinking of using the FM transmitter on the beach when summer hits |
| 10:44.18 | psycho_oreos | you hope not.. its not like that's going to help anything.. when it was subjected to water, what were your first reactions apart from going out and buy samsung galaxy s2? |
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| 10:45.51 | concept | FM transmitters with minijacks are sold quite cheap everywhere |
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| 10:46.52 | Lykkepillen | Haha the water damage part was just a guess, It was just laying on my desk. But i spent hours trying to figure out why it stopped working.. Didn't come up with a solution tho'.. When i think about it, same thing happened with my first iPod Touch - Might just be something in the air |
| 10:47.14 | Lykkepillen | -But why would i buy a FM transmitter when i have a perfectly fine N900 with Youtube on it? |
| 10:50.11 | concept | I've noticed that the SIM holder is quite prone to humidity damage (mine seems to be losing its metallic shine); no clue about the insides of the N900 |
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| 10:53.16 | concept | this is strange since I have a (much older) N95 too which has been exposed to the exact same conditions and seems brand new both inside and out |
| 10:54.10 | concept | the N900, in the other hand, is showing signs of wear in the corners, despite only having been extensively used for less than a year (and being only a little over 2 years old) |
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| 11:10.14 | chem|st | I have no idea what you guys do to your phones... my beloved n900 survived a wheatbeer attack and is looking like week 2 after unboxing ever since |
| 11:10.54 | chem|st | wheatbeer coke mix to be precise |
| 11:11.09 | jaska | wheatbeer and coke.. sounds pretty foamy |
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| 11:38.32 | Lykkepillen | Will talk.maemo.org be up again sometime soon? |
| 11:43.04 | concept | chem|st: do you carry it in a pocket? |
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| 11:52.43 | Sazpaimon__ | Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at talk.maemo.org. |
| 11:52.47 | Sazpaimon__ | today is a good day |
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| 12:14.55 | szop|zzz | yup tmo down for me too |
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| 12:20.33 | chem|st | concept: you mean display foil, phonepocket stuff: no none, just in my pants |
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| 13:00.29 | guly | BCMM: i see. i used to downclock it sometimes, to save battery..but it doesn't worth it |
| 13:00.58 | BCMM | guly: surely it has some sort of idle power saving anyway? |
| 13:01.26 | guly | hope so :) |
| 13:01.34 | BCMM | i have no idea if it's still true on ARM, but on modern x86, it basically works out as better to have the maximum non-idle clock speed available |
| 13:02.02 | BCMM | since it gets its work finished and gets back to the low-power idle state faster |
| 13:02.17 | BCMM | bear in mind that this was about frequency scaling rather than ordinary over/underclocking |
| 13:02.51 | BCMM | the conclusion was that it's not a good idea to automatically scale the freq down on an x86 laptop when on low battery as it will make it run out faster |
| 13:03.16 | BCMM | adding undervolting to the equation could well shift the balance - does the n900 let you adjust voltages? |
| 13:03.44 | BCMM | that's probably a silly question; i would hope a mobile power system is simpler than that |
| 13:04.10 | Lykkepillen | I think it does |
| 13:04.34 | guly | i think so but i think it can be worst before it helps to save battery time |
| 13:04.38 | fortytwo | You can do that with a custom kernel, I don't think you can in the standard one |
| 13:08.58 | Lykkepillen | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zIIkrpMdDpAJ:talk.maemo.org/showpost.php%3Fp%3D595582+&cd=1&hl=da&ct=clnk&gl=dk |
| 13:09.21 | Lykkepillen | -When talk.maemo dosen't work |
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| 13:14.24 | guly | ow your N900 is overclocked to 850Mhz using slightly less voltage than stock!! |
| 13:14.25 | guly | interesting |
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| 13:35.06 | jonwil | bah, TMO is down :( |
| 13:36.06 | guly | it's been down for at least 5 hours |
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| 13:55.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | guly: rush-to-idle is a well known optimal strategy usually |
| 13:55.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | OC though is a pretty bad idea |
| 13:55.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | even and esp with undervolting |
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| 14:34.18 | guly | sure |
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| 14:37.49 | Sazpaimon | overclocking isnt gonna kill your device this week |
| 14:38.06 | Sazpaimon | and chances are by the time overclocking would have killed it, you would be ready to move on anyway |
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| 14:47.44 | Lykkepillen | Could you give me a timespan? I wouldn't push it to the limits, just make it a bit faster |
| 14:48.16 | SpeedEvil | Nobody can. |
| 14:48.38 | SpeedEvil | I it likely to kill it in the time the device still works - possibly not. |
| 14:49.02 | Lykkepillen | So.. 6 months? 1 year? |
| 14:50.37 | luke-jr | Sazpaimon: within a yeaR? |
| 14:52.54 | Sazpaimon | luke-jr, if you run it at 100% cpu for a year straight, then maybe |
| 14:53.15 | luke-jr | Sazpaimon: you wouldn't get to a year at 100% CPU, at default clocks |
| 14:53.37 | Sazpaimon | yeah probably not |
| 14:53.54 | Sazpaimon | still most of the time you're overclocked, the cpu wont even be running at that clock |
| 14:54.46 | Sazpaimon | there are people that have been overclocking for a year already, I havent seen any complaints thus far |
| 15:00.16 | freemangordon | I am OC since aplil/may 2010, till kp49 up to 900, when kp49 came out up to 805 |
| 15:00.59 | Lykkepillen | Well good to know.. I will check back tomorrow to ask a few more questions before i decide lol.. :) |
| 15:07.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, when your car's engine has a red zone and limiter @ 6000 RPM, is it sane to removeavtune the limiter so you can run the engine @ e.g. 8000 RPM? how long can you do? |
| 15:09.49 | Sazpaimon | ah once again, the old car/computer analogy |
| 15:10.23 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, I drive my BMW OC from 136 HP to about 170 HP for 5 or so years :p. No problem at all. |
| 15:11.37 | Sazpaimon | and that analogy doesnt really hold up |
| 15:12.04 | SpeedEvil | I disagree. |
| 15:12.08 | Sazpaimon | if you remove the rev limiter, you would also need to replace the exhaust for it to do anything |
| 15:12.12 | SpeedEvil | In both cases, you can't tell what will fail. |
| 15:13.29 | guly | it simply doesn't worth it |
| 15:13.35 | guly | the risk is to blow up a device |
| 15:13.44 | guly | the pro is to speed up just a bit |
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| 15:37.28 | SpeedEvil | A device that is not used because it is slow has effectively blown up. |
| 15:37.37 | MohammadAG | <Sazpaimon> [10:52:54] luke-jr, if you run it at 100% cpu for a year straight, then maybe |
| 15:37.50 | MohammadAG | if you run 100% CPU at 600MHz it'll like fail |
| 15:38.10 | luke-jr | MohammadAG: that's what I said |
| 15:38.23 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: 600 MHz isn't slow. the RAM is where N900 is lacking |
| 15:38.33 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: often |
| 15:38.36 | MohammadAG | luke-jr, just noticed |
| 15:39.05 | MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer51> [11:07:47] well, when your car's engine has a red zone and limiter @ 6000 RPM, is it sane to removeavtune the limiter so you can run the engine @ e.g. 8000 RPM? how long can you do? |
| 15:39.14 | MohammadAG | I just stick a paper with a drawn extended gauge |
| 15:39.24 | MohammadAG | then broke the needle that holds it at maximum |
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| 16:13.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | all decent scientific studies show that user can't even notice 25% faster CPU, esp when other componenys (RAM etc) are still same speed, and when slow storage (HDD, flash) kicks in, clockspeed of CPU is negligible |
| 16:15.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | so except for that rage case where you get to 24fps but you'd need gt 25fps, OC is TOTALLY useless |
| 16:15.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | rare cases* |
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| 16:47.57 | Dynamit | Is it easy to make N900 to dual boot? If i have one OS in the phone and the other in memory-card of course. |
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| 16:51.11 | beford | yes |
| 16:51.54 | Sicelo | bootmenu, u-boot, flasher -- those are your options Dynamit, depending on how the second OS is configured |
| 16:53.26 | beford | u-boot works better for nemo/mer and multiboot for nitdroid. |
| 16:53.58 | Dynamit | okey i don't have my N900 yet but i hope i have it on Thursday for hope for the Swedish post office to get it from a place near Göteborg to a place quiet near Örnskuldsvik |
| 16:54.14 | Dynamit | ok thx for the info Sicelo and beford |
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| 17:00.17 | Dynamit | Are Maemo under development or have Nokia abandoned it? I have read that Nokia planning/have abandoned MeeGo. |
| 17:00.52 | Sicelo | nitdroid/multiboot aren't advised. that's why i left them out in my list |
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| 17:18.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~maemo-multiboot |
| 17:18.53 | infobot | methinks maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED |
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| 17:43.10 | Dynamit | Is't any support for Ubuntu One sync in Maemo? |
| 17:49.22 | shanttu | Dynamit, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/512052 |
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| 17:59.16 | Sicelo | reading that link makes me laugh :D |
| 18:00.54 | Sicelo | Marktrix (markgerlach) wrote on 2010-10-24: I am not a Developer and no Part of Canonical. But I think, the focus is iOS and Android, Maemo go out of date and Canonical needs cost-effectiveness. So first the Bigplayers and than maybe (hopefully) Meego |
| 18:02.28 | Dynamit | I maybe will use Dual boot then it appearing to be MeeGo and Android or Maemo and Android |
| 18:03.36 | Dynamit | The only reason i want Ubuntu One in the phone when i get it is because then i can writing in the calender in the mobile and get it sync on many computer's i use |
| 18:04.18 | Dynamit | That would make my school studding more effective then it's today |
| 18:04.58 | Sicelo | that's not what i was laughing about though Dynamit. i just find it dumb that the post is clearly about N900, and someone already made attempts to get One on N900. then some apple fanboy pops up and say drop it |
| 18:06.20 | Sicelo | anyway, looks like canonical did 'follow' that piece of 'dis-advice' - http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/2011/05/09/some-changes-to-contacts-2/ |
| 18:07.20 | Dynamit | stupid Apple G** person then |
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| 18:09.32 | Sicelo | btw, lol, i don't even know what this One is, although it seems to be an Ubuntu-only feature.. /me has Debian |
| 18:10.39 | Dynamit | you can use Ubuntu One on Windows too |
| 18:10.44 | Dynamit | Android i Know |
| 18:11.35 | Sicelo | ah, news to me. windows & ubuntu one :P |
| 18:12.53 | Dynamit | https://one.ubuntu.com/downloads/windows/ |
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| 18:19.26 | DocScrutinizer | cooool shit |
| 18:19.43 | DocScrutinizer | is temped to continue where he left yesterday |
| 18:20.29 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. rant about canonical and buntkuh, and the idiotic product philosophy behind it, and the poor maintainability |
| 18:22.07 | DocScrutinizer | ubuntu == "linux" for bored windows users to feel "smart" |
| 18:25.49 | Sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.50 | Sicelo | :D |
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| 18:39.05 | Sicelo | well, N900 made me start to use Linux... and somehow 'dictated' that i should choose Debian. i didn't like Ubuntu for the very same reason DocScrutinizer mentions. guess one future day i'll look into other linuxes (Arch, Gentoo, and such) :/ |
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| 18:45.55 | Sicelo | dunno if i'll really do Gentoo .. compiling everything is nice for learning -- but i'm not so sure doing it all the time is the best idea for me and types of computers i use. therefore, i think Arch looks like my next one. |
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| 19:01.51 | Pali | ping freemangordon |
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| 19:19.08 | ketas | so i have n900 now |
| 19:19.47 | ketas | the usb port didn't wobble, don't know what to do with it next |
| 19:20.46 | merlin1991 | ketas: install cssu ;) |
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| 19:26.13 | ketas | merlin1991: i would like to have cshu |
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| 19:26.34 | merlin1991 | ketas: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
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| 19:28.07 | ketas | merlin1991: "Update available for your MicroUSB port" |
| 19:28.07 | ketas | :P |
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| 19:33.19 | Sicelo | lol |
| 19:40.14 | ketas | round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 119.768/2357.527/10736.500/2708.779 ms |
| 19:40.19 | ketas | i love 3g |
| 19:40.21 | ketas | :) |
| 19:41.27 | ketas | no, it was 100.224/5976.568/27335.730/6531.975 ms actually |
| 19:42.17 | r00t-eeepc | what i find is that packets get queued somewhere, and then eventually arrive with a delay up to multiple minutes |
| 19:42.32 | r00t-eeepc | which is ridiculous, as any internet protocol will have timed out by then |
| 19:43.47 | r00t-eeepc | for example, a dns lookup... a few attempts are made to sed the query udp packet, but no response arrives... a minute later, the response packet to each request arrives... but the source port is closed already, and so for each one, an icmp destination unreachable is sent back to the dns server |
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| 19:44.46 | ketas | yea, sucks |
| 19:45.43 | luke-jr | I've seen pings over 2 minutes -.- |
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| 19:47.54 | ketas | now, imagine you want to use ssh |
| 19:47.59 | ketas | :P |
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| 19:48.22 | ketas | packet arrives 2 minutes later |
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| 20:15.31 | shanttu | changed router at home and when I try to use apt-get on wlan i get "could not contact dns servers". browser works without problems. |
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| 20:19.32 | ketas | hmm |
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| 20:19.41 | ketas | how so |
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| 20:20.12 | ketas | shanttu: can you resolve a host? |
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| 20:26.36 | shanttu | ketas, nope |
| 20:27.12 | Sicelo | tried google dns/ opendns ? |
| 20:29.21 | DocScrutinizer | well, use CSD, it is almost realtime. Wait... N900 modem doesn't support CSD, not fashionable anymore :-S |
| 20:31.59 | shanttu | I used gui to set opendns and thought it was set. i changed it on /etc/resolv.conf and voila |
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| 20:42.25 | DocScrutinizer | fremantle is not using /etc/resolv.conf, or rather: it must not get altered, as on fremantle you got dnsmasq |
| 20:43.55 | DocScrutinizer | so changing /etc/resolv.conf to anything other than 127.0.0.1 will break things |
| 20:44.18 | DocScrutinizer | device can't associate to new networks |
| 20:46.22 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:47.50 | shanttu | DocScrutinizer, the truth is now I can use apt-get. i'm extremely noob regarding networking |
| 20:48.33 | DocScrutinizer | the truth is this will change eventually |
| 20:49.01 | shanttu | will change it back then |
| 20:49.14 | DocScrutinizer | another truth is you haven't got any DNS cache now anymore, as far as I can tell |
| 20:49.40 | DocScrutinizer | so *each* DNS query now goes via network |
| 20:50.21 | DocScrutinizer | in short: you fsckdup your DHCP |
| 20:52.00 | DocScrutinizer | next hotspot you will run into trouble, as they usually rely on their own DNS server getting used at very least for authentication via browser frontpage |
| 20:52.27 | guly | mmh dnsmasq is writing a resolv.conf foreach different connection |
| 20:52.33 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 20:52.35 | guly | and nameserver used is the one got via dhcp |
| 20:52.37 | guly | so |
| 20:52.52 | guly | ->127.0.0.1->dnsmasq->192.168.1.1 |
| 20:52.54 | DocScrutinizer | exactly what I tried to say |
| 20:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | and also dnsmasq caches |
| 20:53.36 | DocScrutinizer | to speed up repeated queries *a lot* |
| 20:53.44 | guly | sure |
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| 20:58.44 | shanttu | reading about opendns now and will try that. thanks for your help |
| 21:02.50 | *** join/#maemo int_ua (~int_ua@93.126.96.47) |
| 21:03.32 | DocScrutinizer | ummm |
| 21:07.20 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AAF68.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:07.56 | DocScrutinizer | maybe you simply should delete your home wlan form list of networks, then create it new - obviously after you first switched /etc/resolv.conf back to default 127.0.0.1 |
| 21:08.47 | DocScrutinizer | checking the config of your new AP also might help a lot |
| 21:09.37 | DocScrutinizer | and of course restarting the phone also may help to recover from hidden massive changes in WLAN network environment |
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| 21:11.51 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: ping |
| 21:12.54 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: i've disassembled my n900, usb port "jumped out" a bit from board on one side |
| 21:14.15 | dos1 | when pressing it a bit from top to make it really touch the board, it works |
| 21:16.25 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 21:16.32 | DocScrutinizer | semi-off |
| 21:16.40 | DocScrutinizer | you opened it just in time |
| 21:17.01 | DocScrutinizer | dos1: so, what's the question? :-D |
| 21:17.08 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer: just reporting :) |
| 21:17.29 | DocScrutinizer | solder it down, touch the connetion pins shortly with soldering iron, good you are |
| 21:17.57 | DocScrutinizer | don't apply tin to the contact pins when soldering them |
| 21:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | good flux maybe, but no tin beyond what's inevitably on your soldering tip already |
| 21:18.48 | DocScrutinizer | so basicaly nothing |
| 21:19.20 | dos1 | ok |
| 21:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | save all the lots of solder for the mach reinforcement blobs at left and right of component ;-) |
| 21:20.19 | DocScrutinizer | mech* |
| 21:20.31 | merlin1991 | and as always |
| 21:20.33 | merlin1991 | NO EPOXY |
| 21:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | YUP! :-D |
| 21:21.12 | dos1 | thanks for tips, i'll report in few days how it went (i don't have soldering iron here right now) |
| 21:21.18 | merlin1991 | hm I wonder how my usb port in my n900s is doing |
| 21:21.57 | DocScrutinizer | dos1: I guess it's redundant, and already known, but anyway: |
| 21:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix |
| 21:22.02 | infobot | well, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) |
| 21:22.37 | merlin1991 | hm I gues it's impossible to tell if they are broken from the outside |
| 21:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | yes, mostly |
| 21:23.16 | DocScrutinizer | you might tell when it moves 0.2mm when you press it "down" with some toothpick |
| 21:24.08 | DocScrutinizer | actually you can see this very well, as there's a 0.5mm gap from USB to plastic of case |
| 21:24.52 | merlin1991 | down means towards the battery side of the device? |
| 21:25.10 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 21:25.33 | ketas | i tried to push it with stylus when checking for my n900 |
| 21:25.36 | *** join/#maemo net-split (~netsplit@krlh-5f713fda.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:25.38 | DocScrutinizer | well, basically it mustn't move in either sirection |
| 21:25.43 | ketas | wasn't wobbly |
| 21:26.02 | merlin1991 | they all seem to be rock solid |
| 21:26.19 | DocScrutinizer | stylus is a good idea |
| 21:26.25 | ketas | yet, do i need to harden it with solder? |
| 21:26.28 | ketas | still |
| 21:27.01 | DocScrutinizer | depends on your sleep, are you suffering insomnia when you think about N900 USB_? |
| 21:27.34 | ketas | i don't really want it to break off in future |
| 21:27.42 | DocScrutinizer | are you a very gentle guy or rather a blacksnith? |
| 21:27.46 | DocScrutinizer | smith* |
| 21:28.22 | ketas | i don't like to twist cables around really |
| 21:28.23 | r00t-eeepc | wouldn't the safest method be to remove the connector and solder a pigtail cable instead? ;) |
| 21:28.23 | merlin1991 | hm I wonder how blacksmith soldering would look like :P |
| 21:28.28 | ketas | hm |
| 21:28.36 | ketas | what you meant? |
| 21:28.53 | ketas | r00t-eeepc: well... |
| 21:29.05 | ketas | r00t-eeepc: i thought that, but that's stupid |
| 21:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | it's really hard to tell what's more risk - disassembling and trying to solder it while no appropriate expertise, or hoping for your luck not to trip over the cable |
| 21:29.41 | merlin1991 | 2nd case at least gives you the chance that you don't try todo somehting that might break it |
| 21:30.39 | r00t-eeepc | ketas: it _looks_ stpid, but it's the best way to prevent destruction of the port ;) |
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| 21:31.12 | DocScrutinizer | of course there are characters that can't build card houses without folding the cards. Those should try to find somebody to do the soldering for them |
| 21:33.09 | DocScrutinizer | I got no problems with 2 devices with all together >3 years of frequent USB plug-rounds |
| 21:33.26 | DocScrutinizer | both still fine |
| 21:33.37 | DocScrutinizer | no preemptive fixing |
| 21:33.49 | ketas | hmm |
| 21:34.03 | r00t-eeepc | a method i find reasonable is to remove the locking hooks from the micro-usb plug, so it will slip out rather than rip out the port |
| 21:34.08 | ketas | so i leave it without fix for now? |
| 21:34.09 | DocScrutinizer | but then again, I'm an EE who's supposed to know how to handle that kinda delicate stuff |
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| 21:34.47 | r00t-eeepc | ketas: yours is broken, no? so fixing is obviously needed |
| 21:35.04 | DocScrutinizer | r00t-eeepc: that's basically BS, you never 'rip out' the port, it always gets loose by levering/bending the plug |
| 21:35.12 | ketas | r00t-eeepc: not yet :P |
| 21:35.31 | r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: i've seen phones with ripped out port on ebay ;) |
| 21:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | so be carefull on pulling the plug, don't bend it, and you're most likely fine |
| 21:36.13 | ketas | someone claimed that it just came out |
| 21:36.22 | r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: and it will also reduce stress on the port by making the plug fit less tight |
| 21:36.22 | DocScrutinizer | r00t-eeepc: so what? sure you can rip out a loose receptacle component |
| 21:37.14 | ketas | hmm |
| 21:37.24 | ketas | do they make usb plugs without hooks |
| 21:37.46 | DocScrutinizer | well, it's your cable. easy to replace once you ruined it. I never found it's needed as all my cables go in and out just fine, after ~200 rounds |
| 21:37.52 | r00t-eeepc | ketas: rip out with appropriate pliers |
| 21:38.10 | ketas | i'll see |
| 21:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | now that's complete BS |
| 21:38.45 | r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: rip the hooks out of the plug i mean, to make a hook-less plug |
| 21:38.46 | ketas | go in and out just fine... |
| 21:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | yes, and I answered on that |
| 21:39.27 | r00t-eeepc | how else would you remove them (if you wanted to) |
| 21:39.52 | ketas | with teeth |
| 21:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | meh, how else would you make a pig fly |
| 21:40.01 | ketas | with wings of course |
| 21:40.02 | r00t-eeepc | ketas: it's unlikely your teeth have that kind of grip ;) |
| 21:40.11 | DocScrutinizer | simple answer, the whole idea is BS |
| 21:40.19 | r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: possible |
| 21:40.21 | ketas | also |
| 21:40.47 | ketas | some usb cables are fucking thick |
| 21:40.56 | ketas | which might be better for signal but... well |
| 21:41.05 | r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: i'm not necessarily saying it's a great idea or helps much - but it won't hurt (the usb port) either |
| 21:41.17 | DocScrutinizer | will cause plug to fall out when no latches at all |
| 21:41.55 | r00t-eeepc | yes, but having the plug fall out is sure easier on the port than pulling the phone around by it |
| 21:42.20 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: when your plug is a bit tight at beginning, paint the outside (!) with a pencil |
| 21:42.46 | ketas | hmm |
| 21:42.51 | ketas | interesting idea |
| 21:42.56 | r00t-eeepc | graphite lubrication? |
| 21:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 21:43.00 | ketas | yes |
| 21:43.13 | ketas | what out inside :P |
| 21:43.18 | ketas | about |
| 21:43.24 | ShadowJK | And still even without the hooks if you try on the cable you might be subjecting hte port to bending forces still, before the velocity vector of cable and attitude of n900 reorients to allow for plug to come out |
| 21:43.54 | DocScrutinizer | thanks ShadowJK, was too lazy to explain it |
| 21:43.58 | r00t-eeepc | ShadowJK: now that's some serious connector physics ;) |
| 21:44.16 | ketas | i've seen massive microusb plugs with massive cables |
| 21:44.18 | ShadowJK | try=trip |
| 21:44.23 | ketas | and hard to bend cables |
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| 21:44.46 | DocScrutinizer | yes, that's why you want hooks on those |
| 21:44.48 | ketas | those cables nokia provide are somewhat easier to work with |
| 21:45.52 | DocScrutinizer | USB *always* breaks on you pulling on the plug not in line with insertion direction |
| 21:45.58 | DocScrutinizer | aka bending it |
| 21:46.05 | DocScrutinizer | on pulling out |
| 21:46.18 | ketas | hm? |
| 21:46.31 | ketas | breaks what, how? |
| 21:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | your USB never will come off on a proper pull out in straight line, not even with hardest latches on plug |
| 21:47.04 | r00t-eeepc | now, what we REALLY need is induction coupled phone charging... |
| 21:47.21 | DocScrutinizer | if you need it, you should get it |
| 21:47.36 | DocScrutinizer | it's been done before |
| 21:47.49 | ShadowJK | helsinki airport has café with induction chargers under the tables |
| 21:47.50 | ketas | well induction charing on phone is kind of hard to design, no? |
| 21:47.58 | ketas | charging |
| 21:48.05 | r00t-eeepc | it's available somewhere... but probably too expensive to be worth it |
| 21:48.23 | DocScrutinizer | ~80..100 bucks for material IIRC |
| 21:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | with a spare for palm pre |
| 21:49.09 | DocScrutinizer | some cute hacker already did it |
| 21:49.13 | r00t-eeepc | i just bought an n900 for 100 bucks... |
| 21:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | on N900 |
| 21:54.15 | szop|zzz | wb |
| 21:54.36 | szop|zzz | oops, much late, nvm that |
| 21:56.35 | ketas | bucks and boosts |
| 21:56.52 | szop|zzz | pali: when you mean 2.6.35 needs proc/bootreason and gpio keys to work... could you point in the right direction for further reading? |
| 21:58.07 | Pali | Hurrian, szopin, if you want I can send my patch for bootreason and gpio to work |
| 21:58.30 | Pali | patch is for meego n900 kernel from git |
| 21:58.47 | Pali | and it create compatible interface for maemo 5 fremantle |
| 21:59.57 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.236.200.200) |
| 22:00.27 | Hurrian | i'd like that |
| 22:00.36 | Hurrian | let's see what can be built |
| 22:03.42 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:04.34 | Pali | Hurrian, szopin, wait I will create patch against n900_kernel git kernel repo |
| 22:04.38 | *** join/#maemo nslu2-log_ (~nslu2-log@140.211.169.184) |
| 22:05.13 | DocScrutinizer | wow, I found my "book to read" for this night: /sys/kernel/debug/kprobes |
| 22:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | err, /sys/kernel/debug/* |
| 22:05.48 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon (freemangor@130-204-50-168.2074156771.ddns.cablebg.net) |
| 22:06.13 | *** join/#maemo sopin (~user@87-205-195-198.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 22:06.23 | sopin | hmm, still quiet? |
| 22:06.35 | sopin | yay works... thanks Pali |
| 22:06.49 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_droid (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 22:07.08 | ketas | disco_stu_droid: blasphemy |
| 22:08.00 | Hurrian | cool, going to get debian 6 and scrathbox then |
| 22:08.16 | DocScrutinizer | hah, /sys/kernel/debug/wl12xx/fw-statistics/* wow |
| 22:08.25 | Pali | sopin, Hurrian, patch is here: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/meego_n900_kernel_fremantle.patch |
| 22:08.40 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@253.80-203-127.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:08.48 | Pali | against this git repo: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-device-adaptation/n900_kernel |
| 22:08.54 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:09.03 | Pali | please note that you need GCC 4.6 |
| 22:09.07 | sopin | pali: is it possible to compile >.28 in SB, using gcc 4.6 for example? |
| 22:09.38 | Pali | I think scratchobox does not compiling it correctly |
| 22:09.48 | Pali | better install ARM GCC cross compiler |
| 22:10.05 | Hurrian | oh |
| 22:10.06 | Pali | and also, this patch is very hacky and is not complete!!!! |
| 22:10.09 | sopin | so to get 35 running one can scratch scratchbox? |
| 22:10.10 | Hurrian | no need for debian then |
| 22:10.13 | *** join/#maemo mfridh (~freenode@pdpc/supporter/active/roksteady) |
| 22:10.17 | Hurrian | brb, booting ubuntu vm |
| 22:10.22 | sopin | :) |
| 22:10.24 | *** join/#maemo FACEFOX (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:10.32 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (~doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 22:10.39 | Pali | ubuntu has package gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi |
| 22:10.53 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_Air (~gadgetoid@2002:560e:4a3e:0:3814:3872:b902:c518) |
| 22:10.56 | Pali | and with it you can easy cross compile n900 kernel without problem |
| 22:10.57 | Hurrian | @Pali, do I need to build newer binutils for fremantle to boot this kernel? |
| 22:11.04 | Pali | no |
| 22:11.10 | Hurrian | nice |
| 22:11.18 | Hurrian | also, i see that you build k-pwr with gcc 4.2.1 |
| 22:11.24 | sopin | libc6/libglib? |
| 22:11.26 | Hurrian | would that also be necessary? |
| 22:11.26 | Pali | also please note that I did not tested it on real n900 yet!!!! |
| 22:11.40 | sopin | I can crash test it for you |
| 22:11.47 | Pali | in qemu it has problem with BME |
| 22:11.49 | sopin | got a freshly reflashed one |
| 22:11.55 | NIN101 | you can compile the meego 2.6.37 in the harmattan sdk, worked fine for me. |
| 22:11.58 | Pali | I needed to remove /etc/event.d/bme |
| 22:12.00 | sopin | so just say a word |
| 22:12.26 | Hurrian | @Pali, wouldn't that means that rd mode should be on? |
| 22:12.37 | Hurrian | wait, kernel dev, riiight. turning rd on. |
| 22:12.40 | Pali | in qemu is R&D mode on by default |
| 22:13.19 | sopin | are you guys preparing 37 thumb2 release by any chance??? |
| 22:13.38 | Hurrian | @sopin: /nemomobile/ |
| 22:13.48 | Pali | I have no time to experiment with this now |
| 22:13.56 | sopin | :/ |
| 22:14.05 | Pali | but you got my last patch which has fixed problem with NAND |
| 22:14.13 | Pali | and also with /proc/bootreason |
| 22:14.35 | sopin | if you have things to try out, throw em at me |
| 22:14.41 | Pali | so you can play with that code |
| 22:14.54 | sopin | time to test and report is << learning kernel compilation |
| 22:15.01 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:15.04 | sopin | will do, thanks |
| 22:15.07 | Pali | but fremantle BME must be removed, because it working only with 2.6.28 |
| 22:15.14 | Hurrian | @sopin - make rx51_defconfig |
| 22:15.19 | Pali | cross compilation is easy |
| 22:15.25 | Hurrian | uhh |
| 22:15.28 | *** join/#maemo em (~em@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:15.34 | Pali | export ARCH=arm; make rx51_defconfig; make -j12 |
| 22:15.56 | Pali | and export CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi- before all |
| 22:15.57 | Hurrian | @Pali, you don't need to specify the compiler? |
| 22:16.03 | Hurrian | ah there. |
| 22:16.06 | sopin | does meego provide replacement for BME that could be butchered in with newer kernel? |
| 22:16.13 | Pali | no idea |
| 22:16.20 | Hurrian | @sopin, yes, but it may not play with fremantle systems |
| 22:16.24 | Pali | but BME can be replaced by my kernel module |
| 22:16.29 | Pali | when it will be finished |
| 22:16.35 | sopin | :D |
| 22:16.41 | sopin | looking forward to it |
| 22:16.58 | Pali | last version was announced on TMO in usb host mode thread |
| 22:17.25 | sopin | there are many 100 pages+ threads there I need to dig through |
| 22:17.51 | sopin | will get there eventually |
| 22:18.00 | Pali | but be carefull what you will do!! I really really did not tested that kernel in real n900 |
| 22:18.21 | sopin | hmm... flashing works always as long as hw is ok, no? |
| 22:18.31 | ketas | your n900 might burst into flames |
| 22:18.32 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon (freemangor@130-204-50-168.2074156771.ddns.cablebg.net) |
| 22:18.37 | sopin | is it really possible to brick it with just sw? |
| 22:19.11 | sopin | the u pressing boot is outside of any possible sw infringment I though |
| 22:19.16 | sopin | t |
| 22:19.39 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, see ^^^ what do you think? it is possible to brick n900 with sw (bad kernel)? |
| 22:19.47 | *** join/#maemo bindi (~bindi@f430.ip15.netikka.fi) |
| 22:20.07 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:20.08 | sopin | like rom |
| 22:20.14 | DocScrutinizer | no way |
| 22:20.18 | ketas | i don't think bad kernel causes bricking |
| 22:20.44 | ketas | but is there a way to make it unbootable and unflashable? |
| 22:20.48 | ketas | apart from hammer? |
| 22:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | you can damage some peripherals with really nasty kernels (like bq27x00 I2Cbus "fix" ;-D) |
| 22:21.20 | ketas | hmm what that did? |
| 22:21.29 | Pali | you mean to force start BME and bq27x00 battery? |
| 22:21.36 | Pali | both at same time? |
| 22:21.55 | Hurrian | it "might" trigger a bad i2c condition |
| 22:22.16 | ketas | and that damages what and how |
| 22:22.22 | Pali | that kernet does not support fremantle BME, so this problem is solved :D |
| 22:22.22 | Hurrian | charger chip iirc |
| 22:22.46 | Pali | in qemu when BME tried to start it send some signal to DSME and DSME rebooted system |
| 22:22.46 | DocScrutinizer | I mean collision on I2C, due to some genius patched out locking |
| 22:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | not applicable to current PK versions afaik |
| 22:23.16 | sopin | well, got my N900 unchargeable in many ways, but flashing always work (in the end) |
| 22:23.28 | Pali | you need to full battery for flashing |
| 22:23.35 | sopin | unless you mean hw dmg |
| 22:23.37 | Hurrian | @sopin, just make sure you load this using u-boot or flasher -l |
| 22:23.41 | DocScrutinizer | there are other way too to "brick" N900 via sw, but for obvious reasons I'll not elaborate |
| 22:24.19 | Pali | I know only one theoretical way how to brick n900 via sw (without damaging HW) |
| 22:24.22 | sopin | so there is no ROM for handling powerup with 'u' pressed? |
| 22:24.39 | Hurrian | @sopin, it's seen by nolo, which is not in rom |
| 22:24.42 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: cosnsists of A, L, and C |
| 22:24.50 | *** join/#maemo dima_ (~dima@orangelo.feralhosting.com) |
| 22:25.03 | sopin | always thought this was what saved me |
| 22:25.11 | sopin | again and again recently |
| 22:25.19 | dima_ | Did they ever get flash playeer working on maemo? |
| 22:25.25 | Hurrian | @sopin, plugging usb while off into flasher automatically gets you into flasher mode |
| 22:25.36 | sopin | so without UV light we're safe, bad news I guess |
| 22:25.40 | Hurrian | there is no need to press "U" |
| 22:25.59 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:25.59 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, did somebody already try to delete that? |
| 22:26.05 | sopin | Hurrian: TIL, wow |
| 22:26.12 | DocScrutinizer | not afaik |
| 22:27.13 | Pali | and what is different between to n900's cal? |
| 22:27.26 | Pali | only BT & WIFI addr? |
| 22:27.42 | DocScrutinizer | ser nr, localization |
| 22:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | some other mysterious crap |
| 22:28.03 | *** join/#maemo em (~em@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:28.13 | DocScrutinizer | on my server you find a dump of my CAL |
| 22:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | actually a number of dumps |
| 22:28.36 | Pali | so if somebody erase it and we found some magic way how to flash other cal dump, will be n900 working again? |
| 22:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | filenames tell how they were done |
| 22:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: prolly yes |
| 22:29.17 | DocScrutinizer | that's why those dumps are there |
| 22:29.56 | DocScrutinizer | coldflashing into a rescue-initrd might actually work. Then use mtd_utils to restore |
| 22:30.20 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, and will NOLO start with bad cal? |
| 22:30.30 | DocScrutinizer | that's the big question |
| 22:30.37 | DocScrutinizer | coldflashed NOLO should |
| 22:31.04 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:31.08 | ketas | thinks where to start with his n900 |
| 22:31.15 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~arggu@91-157-140-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:31.16 | ketas | it's still in the box :P |
| 22:31.35 | ketas | maybe it feels lonely there |
| 22:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: start by *using* it without *any* crap and 'mods' installed |
| 22:31.45 | Pali | I played with U-Boot SPL build and I forced X-loader to load U-Boot SPL instead NOLO |
| 22:31.48 | Hurrian | if nokia made their software badly, it's an insta-brick |
| 22:32.13 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: ...to get a feeling how a working maemo fremantle feels like |
| 22:32.14 | Pali | so maybe one day I can replace NOLO with U-Boot SPL |
| 22:32.17 | Hurrian | @Pali, how did you get around signing issue? |
| 22:32.26 | Pali | NOLO is not signed |
| 22:32.29 | Pali | only X-loader |
| 22:32.33 | Hurrian | ooh |
| 22:32.36 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: of course |
| 22:32.38 | Pali | and I decrypted X-Loader protocol |
| 22:32.54 | Pali | its easy (I posted info to TMO thread) |
| 22:33.03 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: hey! :-D |
| 22:33.22 | Pali | I only tested it in qemu + gdb |
| 22:33.29 | Hurrian | @Pali, but you still don't know what exactly NOLO does, right? |
| 22:33.33 | Pali | but it freeze at serial console instructions |
| 22:33.37 | sopin | I've been treating it very badly, changing .so to ubuntu versions and back, never bricked totally, even if required few pushes to tart flashing |
| 22:33.39 | DocScrutinizer | yep, Hurrian |
| 22:33.43 | Pali | yes |
| 22:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | that's the main problem |
| 22:33.48 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: first i need to backup it, just in case and then look if previous owner did clean it up or not |
| 22:33.53 | sopin | thought it was unbrickabe by sw |
| 22:34.02 | Hurrian | @sopin, it technically is |
| 22:34.10 | sopin | time to change game plan and use the spare for crash testing it seems |
| 22:34.18 | Hurrian | if you have all possible service tools, it's unbrickable |
| 22:34.21 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: aaah, so you want to install sth actually: backupmenu |
| 22:34.24 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, where do you have cal dumps? |
| 22:34.27 | sopin | was using it as phone to limit wear on the newer one |
| 22:34.35 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: on my server |
| 22:34.39 | Pali | I'd like to look at in via calvaria |
| 22:34.43 | Pali | address? |
| 22:34.46 | DocScrutinizer | you'll not miss them when you look there |
| 22:35.06 | DocScrutinizer | maemo.cloud-7.de |
| 22:35.31 | DocScrutinizer | you should know this URL already |
| 22:35.33 | sopin | Hurrian: service tools as in special sw/cables and screwdrivers? or available for dl progs? |
| 22:35.57 | DocScrutinizer | the latter |
| 22:36.09 | Hurrian | OMAP downloads code from usb on boot |
| 22:36.13 | ketas | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/ |
| 22:36.18 | ketas | make it clickable :/ |
| 22:36.21 | Hurrian | so no problem wrt hw flashers etc |
| 22:36.41 | Hurrian | @DocScrutinizer, IMEI is not stored in CAL, but in BB5, right? |
| 22:36.42 | DocScrutinizer | no problem |
| 22:36.50 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: right |
| 22:36.58 | DocScrutinizer | actually, both |
| 22:37.05 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 22:37.19 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:38.10 | ketas | hmm, haven't tried, are n900 speakers as good as 5800's? :) |
| 22:38.43 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, in your dump are a lot of sections "wlan-tx-cost3_0" |
| 22:38.57 | DocScrutinizer | nfc |
| 22:39.57 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: I dunno 5800, but N900 speakers not top notch |
| 22:40.23 | crope | 5 |
| 22:40.27 | DocScrutinizer | I mean they're not exactly bad, but e.g. N810 had better ones |
| 22:40.36 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I got a 7" tablet - as a gift. |
| 22:40.38 | Hurrian | @ketas, significantly worse than a N95's |
| 22:40.51 | Hurrian | @SpeedEvil, running android, i presume |
| 22:40.53 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: The audio is so badly designed that if you cover the speaker holes, the sound gets better |
| 22:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | ouch XP |
| 22:41.18 | SpeedEvil | Wopad I7 |
| 22:41.33 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: well 5800 speakers are quite amazing |
| 22:41.34 | SpeedEvil | I use it for casual browsing - I haven't really investigated it deeply |
| 22:41.40 | DocScrutinizer | proper name for that |
| 22:41.59 | Hurrian | >RK2918 - rockchip |
| 22:42.02 | Hurrian | damn that's cheap |
| 22:42.07 | sopin | doc: smscb.py - command line sms interface or for netwok messages? |
| 22:42.14 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: lower frequencies are quite well represented |
| 22:42.19 | SpeedEvil | It's a nice tablet - but for the audio. |
| 22:42.23 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:42.26 | SpeedEvil | Well - for the price. |
| 22:42.28 | DocScrutinizer | btw take a bit of care about your N900 speakers - you know you potentially could blow them with the power of amp |
| 22:42.40 | *** join/#maemo b1ackdeath (b1ackdeath@nat/redhat/x-nxznwifnunfitnlu) |
| 22:42.44 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: ^^^ |
| 22:42.57 | ketas | hah |
| 22:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | so better no indiscriminate messing with ALSA's guts |
| 22:43.13 | ketas | anyone burned out camera led? |
| 22:43.17 | ketas | :) |
| 22:43.24 | DocScrutinizer | no such reports |
| 22:43.26 | Hurrian | @ketas - nope |
| 22:43.29 | ketas | well you can |
| 22:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | yes, we now |
| 22:44.00 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil and me (iirc) found out about that, and how to avoid it |
| 22:44.02 | ketas | i rather love devices without restrictions |
| 22:44.37 | DocScrutinizer | meh, restrictions conflictions |
| 22:44.48 | DocScrutinizer | what restrictions? |
| 22:45.28 | DocScrutinizer | the restriction that the amp is strong enough to blow the speakers, while on other devices you got the restriction of amp NOT being strong enough for that? |
| 22:45.40 | sopin | so you can overvolt battery for it to explode on a plane, take that tsa |
| 22:45.50 | x29a | flashmode @ 500mA and not turn it off in time? loel |
| 22:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | BS |
| 22:46.11 | sopin | you're free to burn your pocket |
| 22:46.19 | Hurrian | doesnt the bl-5j have built-in chip? |
| 22:46.27 | DocScrutinizer | sopin: don't tell nonsense here |
| 22:46.32 | sopin | jk |
| 22:46.44 | sopin | but no restrictions would be just that |
| 22:46.53 | sopin | free to kill your device as you want |
| 22:46.57 | DocScrutinizer | a) hurrian is right, b) bq24150 charger chip limits at 4300mV |
| 22:47.05 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@178-83-10-90.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:47.12 | sopin | stallman doesn't use N900 prolly because of it |
| 22:47.29 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:47.40 | sopin | open: not really, free: far from it |
| 22:47.54 | Hurrian | no, stallman would not use N900 because of sgx, bb5, bcmfw etc. |
| 22:48.03 | SpeedEvil | It is in many places illegal to sell an open cellphone. |
| 22:48.06 | sopin | with meego on top? |
| 22:48.16 | DocScrutinizer | stallman won't use any HDD either |
| 22:48.18 | Hurrian | @sopin, meego-n900 comes with bcmfw |
| 22:48.23 | SpeedEvil | Open in the sense that the user can get to the modem furmware. |
| 22:48.28 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, these sections are in your cal dump (removed duplicates): als_calib bme cert-ccc cert-hwc cert-npc content-ver fmtx_pwl kernel-ver lock_code nolo-ver part_table phone-info root_device sw-release-ver wlan-tx-cost3_0 |
| 22:48.29 | sopin | oh... |
| 22:48.30 | SpeedEvil | And do stuff. |
| 22:48.49 | Pali | is there some info what which section means? |
| 22:48.50 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 22:48.51 | sopin | he does have an open laptop though last I heard, from skorea |
| 22:48.54 | Hurrian | @SpeedEvil, byt hat definition any tegra phone should be illegal |
| 22:49.00 | sopin | all free drivers etc |
| 22:49.01 | Hurrian | @sopin, it's chinese |
| 22:49.08 | sopin | sure he has a hard disk there |
| 22:49.16 | sopin | could be |
| 22:49.17 | SpeedEvil | By open, I mean that all the code is available. |
| 22:49.23 | SpeedEvil | Including that running on the modem. |
| 22:49.34 | Hurrian | that probably violates patents |
| 22:49.37 | Hurrian | gsm patents |
| 22:49.47 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: nope |
| 22:49.52 | sopin | ofono violates? |
| 22:50.00 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: can n900 also blow your mind? |
| 22:50.01 | Hurrian | ofono is a RIL |
| 22:50.21 | Hurrian | ofono is NOT the firmware that runs on the baseband |
| 22:50.24 | SpeedEvil | Patents aren't teh point. In the UK, once the first person abuses the openness, and it's reported to you, you have to fix it, or any further phones you sell are 'hacking tools' |
| 22:50.44 | Hurrian | and i assume this is regarding to IMEI's? |
| 22:50.50 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: please stop using "@" |
| 22:50.54 | SpeedEvil | This is not about 'AT' access to the modem. But for example, using it in GSM 'promiscuous mode' or changing IMEI |
| 22:50.58 | sopin | whoa, that explains maemo fate |
| 22:51.06 | ketas | SpeedEvil: and hacking tools are bad how? |
| 22:51.17 | SpeedEvil | ketas: They put you in prison. |
| 22:51.21 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer: sorry, force of habit from another IRC net |
| 22:51.35 | ketas | SpeedEvil: by just having them? |
| 22:51.44 | SpeedEvil | ketas: For selling phone hacking tools. |
| 22:51.48 | sopin | xchat highlights those correctly with or without @ |
| 22:51.49 | SpeedEvil | Or phone network. |
| 22:51.54 | sopin | not sure about irssi |
| 22:52.01 | Hurrian | SpeedEvil, check "efs" partition on tegra devices, or any cheap chinese crap |
| 22:52.13 | Hurrian | the cheap chinese crap has those "debug" features often enabled |
| 22:52.39 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: And yes. I'm not saying it makes sense, or it has been actionable against anyone. |
| 22:52.48 | Hurrian | sopin, nokia has done a lot in the years and money it has spent on BB5 just ot not be able to do this stuff |
| 22:53.13 | Hurrian | that law is fking ridiculous imo |
| 22:53.25 | ketas | which law? |
| 22:53.28 | sopin | Hurrian: they could get on terrorist list for sharing hacking tools/devices when opening further |
| 22:53.57 | Hurrian | "anti h4xx0r t00ls law" |
| 22:54.00 | sopin | at least the uk example here is woooshy |
| 22:54.27 | sopin | sopa/acta got nothing on it |
| 22:54.30 | ketas | hacking tools law is pretty stupid |
| 22:54.31 | SpeedEvil | finds the 'phone hacking' scandal has made searches _much_ harder. |
| 22:54.49 | ketas | by itself |
| 22:55.14 | SpeedEvil | In short - if you make available devices which can change the IMEI, or do certain other things - and they are abused, and you do not fix it, any later sales are prosecutable. |
| 22:55.40 | SpeedEvil | tries to remember the bill. |
| 22:56.12 | ketas | i think it's illegal to fake imei here too |
| 22:56.29 | sopin | opening any related stuff could be used as: they allow terrorists |
| 22:56.36 | SpeedEvil | Aha! |
| 22:56.55 | ketas | sopin: terrorists already have whatever they want |
| 22:57.05 | ketas | :) |
| 22:57.07 | sopin | but not open source |
| 22:57.17 | SpeedEvil | hmm - not finding. |
| 22:57.18 | Hurrian | faking imei is illegal almost everywhere in the world |
| 22:57.22 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: a russian hacker will send me some modules with FULL %EM and other nice stuff, fully documented. Like AT§CSIM |
| 22:57.26 | sopin | revenging gsm is a HUGE task |
| 22:57.43 | DocScrutinizer | AT§CHGIMEI |
| 22:57.50 | ketas | hahaha |
| 22:57.53 | ketas | nice |
| 22:58.01 | sopin | he is fbi |
| 22:58.06 | sopin | don't pay him |
| 22:58.19 | sopin | share your results :P |
| 22:58.30 | SpeedEvil | Argh - legislation.gov.uk search just went down. |
| 22:58.40 | ketas | who dossed that |
| 22:58.41 | sopin | go 4chan |
| 22:59.02 | sopin | uk is lawless now :) |
| 22:59.04 | Hurrian | sopin, 4chan hasnt done any raids for YEARS |
| 22:59.21 | sopin | was a joke, nvm |
| 22:59.43 | Hurrian | prolly some high and mighty "we gotta avenge lulsec" wannabe HOIC-touters |
| 22:59.50 | sopin | coincidence with the subject of discussion |
| 23:00.05 | ketas | fire LOIC |
| 23:00.21 | sopin | the lulsec fbi snitch was a huge news though |
| 23:00.43 | sopin | hope his family will be ok |
| 23:00.47 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@89.142.213.59) |
| 23:00.58 | ketas | what you mean HIS |
| 23:01.14 | sopin | wife and 2 children iirc? |
| 23:01.29 | Pali | Hurrian, sopin, if you will get some new kernel working with fremantle or you will play with it let me know |
| 23:01.34 | Pali | now I'm going offline |
| 23:01.41 | sopin | sure thing mate |
| 23:01.43 | sopin | gn |
| 23:01.46 | SpeedEvil | waves. |
| 23:01.47 | Hurrian | k, downloading the patches one by one from obs actually |
| 23:01.54 | Hurrian | bye, pali |
| 23:01.58 | DocScrutinizer | waves back |
| 23:02.50 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:03.04 | sopin | brb |
| 23:04.00 | *** join/#maemo timeless (u4015@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 23:06.36 | szop|afk | does anybody know what is stopping fremantle booting on N800 (stripping gsm related stuff)? |
| 23:07.28 | szoppin | is it ram limitation? |
| 23:07.45 | szoppin | screen, cpu etc should be all upstream |
| 23:07.49 | javispedro | lack of a working gfx accelerator, ram, a lot of assumptions about the kernel ... |
| 23:08.15 | szoppin | non-accelerated version could work then? |
| 23:08.32 | javispedro | no such thing |
| 23:08.38 | szoppin | looking at diablo state today one has to wonder if N900 is not going to end up in the same way |
| 23:08.51 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@200.49.190.92) |
| 23:09.00 | szoppin | unless kernel/libc/libglib get updated |
| 23:09.26 | szoppin | and non-compatible things replaced with meego pieces |
| 23:09.43 | szoppin | sad view |
| 23:09.46 | DocScrutinizer | meh, no thanks |
| 23:10.02 | szoppin | Why is that? |
| 23:10.20 | szoppin | Not really a competitor on the horizon |
| 23:10.25 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:10.27 | wmarone | szoppin: Cordia HD is always a possible upgrade path. Hildon UI on Mer. |
| 23:11.08 | DocScrutinizer | sounds good, but what's with proper power management in meego/mer? |
| 23:11.16 | szoppin | wmarone: updating seems like a more viable option, the things you mention are far from working solutions |
| 23:11.47 | wmarone | updating isn't an option due to all the closed bits |
| 23:11.58 | DocScrutinizer | they fell for the age old nasty misconception/fault of "let's deal with that later, for now let's just make it work" |
| 23:12.17 | szoppin | critical components are usually backward compatible to an extent |
| 23:12.21 | DocScrutinizer | you can not do power conserving design 'later' |
| 23:12.57 | szoppin | so small jumps in kernel should be possible, if maemo critical component is too hackish, get meego |
| 23:13.12 | szoppin | it works as ubuntu 12.04 to an extent on .35 |
| 23:13.12 | DocScrutinizer | forget meego kernel |
| 23:13.24 | DocScrutinizer | also forget meego middleware |
| 23:13.25 | szoppin | how then? |
| 23:13.37 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: this way to doing things will always fail |
| 23:13.38 | javispedro | actually |
| 23:13.42 | javispedro | meego already boots on the n8x0 |
| 23:13.49 | javispedro | fremantle will NEVER work on the n8x0, so forget. |
| 23:14.36 | szoppin | I'm thinking about N900, precise runs so latest libc etc is possible (buggy I admit, but worth trying) |
| 23:14.41 | javispedro | I think OTOH that newer kernel, newer glibc, newer glib are certainly possible |
| 23:15.22 | szoppin | would grant N900 few extra years of meaningful existance |
| 23:15.23 | DocScrutinizer | well, with porting the Nokia patches, yes |
| 23:15.31 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:15.50 | javispedro | not many nokia patches to glibc or glib ;P |
| 23:15.56 | DocScrutinizer | kernel |
| 23:16.25 | DocScrutinizer | there's a whole truckload of .ko that never made it upstream |
| 23:16.40 | DocScrutinizer | and now their missing spoils meego standby time |
| 23:16.59 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 23:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | not even mentioning things like ICD2 |
| 23:17.20 | javispedro | (I think that you are making this problem bigger than it is) |
| 23:17.26 | javispedro | (standby time) |
| 23:17.27 | Hurrian | but icd2 is maemo middleware |
| 23:17.37 | DocScrutinizer | sure, I know |
| 23:17.49 | DocScrutinizer | I mentioned middleware above |
| 23:18.10 | *** join/#maemo jester` (~jester`@ks384654.kimsufi.com) |
| 23:18.34 | DocScrutinizer | anyway... n8 |
| 23:20.40 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:20.45 | szoppin | ? |
| 23:21.19 | szoppin | or was it n8(ight)? |
| 23:21.24 | szoppin | gn just in case |
| 23:22.10 | szoppin | if not, are the truckload of .ko you mentioned somewhere available? |
| 23:23.46 | szoppin | javispedro: would you have a plan that could possibly work (updating crucial libs/kernel)? |
| 23:24.22 | szoppin | I can volunteer to try out possible solutions, bruteforcing till we get something working |
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| 23:25.48 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:26.17 | szoppin | going to try maverick's .so's next |
| 23:27.07 | szoppin | not sure if pre50 will be good enough for them, but unlike precise they lack symlinks, so all need to be renamed to actual .so's from maemo |
| 23:27.17 | javispedro | plan? :) |
| 23:27.21 | szoppin | hope maverick is not too big of a step |
| 23:27.39 | szoppin | javispedro: things to try out that could maybe hint at workable solution |
| 23:27.56 | szoppin | my attempts are like bringing a battleaxe to a barber |
| 23:28.44 | szoppin | pointless, harmfull, but if it would work... |
| 23:28.48 | szoppin | no harm in few flashes |
| 23:29.01 | szoppin | maybe error messages will change and give clues |
| 23:29.06 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (~doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 23:29.24 | szoppin | moving in the dark totally |
| 23:29.38 | szoppin | but maybe smaller jump will yield some result |
| 23:30.32 | szoppin | would love to try .29 kernel |
| 23:30.43 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@inz.fi) |
| 23:31.01 | szoppin | would be willing to bet 1$ fremantle closed source packages would still function |
| 23:31.35 | szoppin | and the ones that crash could give insight into what needs patching to try .30... rinse and repeat |
| 23:32.20 | wmarone | fortunately the board files for the N900 are upstream :) |
| 23:32.39 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.142) |
| 23:34.02 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@ip-89-102-207-166.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 23:34.19 | szoppin | so we're looking at closed parts only non-functioning |
| 23:34.23 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:34.56 | wmarone | iirc there's something in the boot process that depends on something that was removed from the kernel after 2.6.28 but the last time I looked was over a year ago |
| 23:35.04 | szoppin | which for gsm is a big deal, but assuming (we all dream) they will keep working 2.6.3x would maybe be possible? |
| 23:35.20 | szoppin | proc/bootreason |
| 23:36.17 | szoppin | pali got patch to bring that back |
| 23:37.32 | szoppin | getting .35 or such to the level of kp49/50 will take a lot, but still newer libc/glib would be awesome |
| 23:38.35 | szoppin | btw, what happened to the guys that brought us fremantle? |
| 23:39.05 | szoppin | nokia fired most maemo devs, would they be willing to share some of their exp? |
| 23:39.22 | jonwil | As far as I know there are no closed source kernel pieces in the N900 so it should be possible to forward port any N900-specific patches to a newer kernel |
| 23:39.29 | szoppin | or is there NDAA in place even if we hunted them? |
| 23:40.31 | szoppin | considering licensing kernel should be open, yes, but hacks specific to .28 could be in place in all closed components |
| 23:40.31 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:40.49 | szoppin | so even move to 29 could turn out to be fatal |
| 23:41.06 | szoppin | hoping it is not the case, but until tested, it is unknown |
| 23:42.04 | szoppin | which is why I installed sb yesterday and going to read into kernel compiling/installing, want to try this |
| 23:42.16 | szoppin | but will take ages |
| 23:42.55 | szoppin | if someone can provide 29 for test, pls share |
| 23:48.48 | szoppin | pali's patch for meego kernel is 160kb :D need a few months vacation |
| 23:49.45 | wmarone | why not look at the patch set for Mer? |
| 23:50.00 | wmarone | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=kernel-adaptation-n900&project=CE%3AAdaptation%3AN900 |
| 23:51.00 | *** join/#maemo joga (7Fl1HBkQ@rikki.fi) |
| 23:51.03 | szoppin | pali's patch should allow newer kernels running with fremantle, so you get phone etc functionality and can look at updating libs (my limited understanding), does it all work on mer? |
| 23:51.23 | wmarone | nope, mer is a fundamentally different platform |
| 23:51.25 | wmarone | but |
| 23:51.54 | wmarone | the core patches to make it work on newer kernels are there individually |
| 23:51.57 | wmarone | not sure if that's what you need |
| 23:52.35 | szoppin | no idea yet, will know in few weeks/months (maybe) |
| 23:53.05 | szoppin | looking for simplest way of allowing newer libc etc requiring apps to compile run on N900 though |
| 23:53.22 | szoppin | without losing functionality as much as possible |
| 23:53.56 | szoppin | nemo effort I applaud, but is a bit different way of looking at the platform/device |
| 23:54.22 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.236.214.246) |
| 23:54.39 | szoppin | I am looking for a way to keep fremantle while also allowing newer stuff to run on it |
| 23:55.07 | szoppin | possibly totally unrealistic |
| 23:55.23 | *** join/#maemo PeterWolf (~peter@118-160-197-208.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 23:56.30 | *** join/#maemo StucKman (~user@ant06-1-82-242-111-151.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:57.45 | szoppin | hmmm... wait |
| 23:58.12 | Hurrian | compile new stuff with LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/newlibglib/ |
| 23:58.21 | szoppin | aapo was thinking of porting gcc 4.6 and using this to update all other components, but autobuilder blocks this approach |
| 23:58.41 | szoppin | is the maemo repo code open? |
| 23:58.52 | szoppin | could someone clone it and remove this limit? |
| 23:59.05 | szoppin | we could possibly then move step by step?? |
| 23:59.06 | Hurrian | hint hint: we break the working-well power management code with newer kernels and different bme |
| 23:59.16 | Hurrian | so what we do, is step by step |
| 23:59.36 | szoppin | pls elaborate? |
| 23:59.44 | Hurrian | recompiling whatever we can to newst libglib, and library patch is at /opt/newlibglib |