| 00:02.04 | *** join/#maemo ketas (~ketas@2001:ad0:91f:0:290:27ff:fea6:a66a) |
| 00:02.21 | ketas | hmm |
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| 00:31.02 | Hurrian | @javispedro, ping |
| 00:31.22 | javispedro | pong Hurrian |
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| 00:32.06 | Hurrian | just wanted to ask, how does the N950 slider feel like? |
| 00:32.57 | Hurrian | does it give some resistance like the N900 or does it just slip? |
| 00:33.03 | javispedro | the first word that comes to mind is "fragile". other than that, it is kinda cool, but I never liked the angle |
| 00:33.27 | javispedro | nah, no resistance, it quickly snaps into one position or the other |
| 00:34.58 | Hurrian | and the keyboard? |
| 00:35.11 | GeneralAntilles | The broken as shit text input makes the keyboard really pointless. :\ |
| 00:35.16 | GeneralAntilles | Plagued with race conditions. |
| 00:35.19 | Hurrian | wat |
| 00:35.58 | GeneralAntilles | First two letters of a new sentence being capitalized |
| 00:36.03 | GeneralAntilles | or only the second letter |
| 00:36.19 | GeneralAntilles | Or first letters of the first two words of a sentence being capitalized. |
| 00:36.24 | Hurrian | side note: i do not see the point of giving devs a dev device with hardware different from the release version |
| 00:36.42 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: They already had a stock of n950 that was otherwise going in the bin. |
| 00:36.45 | GeneralAntilles | Well, they probably had a bunch and needed somewhere to dump them since they weren't selling them. |
| 00:36.53 | Hurrian | the rumors of it being a rejected consumer device are prolly true |
| 00:37.49 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: It's not rumors. |
| 00:37.51 | javispedro | also, I cannot enter tildes using the hw keyboard because unlike fremantle the chr palette does not show tildes |
| 00:38.15 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: You absolutely don't spend several million dollars to give a few thousand devs a unique phone. |
| 00:38.33 | dangergrrl | uhm nokia actually did |
| 00:38.46 | SpeedEvil | dangergrrl: With the original intent of. |
| 00:38.54 | SpeedEvil | Of course that's what happened. |
| 00:38.56 | dangergrrl | i don't know |
| 00:39.02 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, does on the en_US layout. |
| 00:39.12 | SpeedEvil | But back when the n950 was being designed - things looked a whole lot rosier for maemo. |
| 00:39.17 | dangergrrl | but the n950s must have been pricey |
| 00:39.24 | SpeedEvil | Talk of 'the next billion' phones. |
| 00:39.31 | dangergrrl | they gave DocScrutinizer one |
| 00:39.41 | GeneralAntilles | dies a little inside. |
| 00:39.45 | dangergrrl | and only made a few hundred |
| 00:39.52 | Hurrian | ugh, wish i'd have applied for the dev program if i knew nokia was just handing them out |
| 00:40.00 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: ah, fremantle was smart enough to detect I was using es_ES but with US layout and showed the tildes on the palette |
| 00:40.02 | GeneralAntilles | 3 of the 5 people in this discussion got one. |
| 00:40.05 | SpeedEvil | Hurrian: There were sharply limited numbers. |
| 00:40.13 | dangergrrl | he's a sweet guy to be sure |
| 00:40.31 | Hurrian | because seriously, anything that would not require opened aegis can be done in qt creator |
| 00:40.43 | dangergrrl | but why the hell they did that i have no clue |
| 00:40.55 | GeneralAntilles | Gave DocScrutinizer a device? |
| 00:41.08 | Hurrian | @speedevil, probably exactly one production run's worth |
| 00:41.09 | GeneralAntilles | Not familiar with him work, then? |
| 00:41.23 | dangergrrl | gave the loyal devs a prdouction device that cost them $$$$$ |
| 00:41.31 | dangergrrl | he is awesome |
| 00:41.41 | dangergrrl | i would give him toys too |
| 00:41.57 | Hurrian | @dangergrrl, the toys were "first come first serve" |
| 00:42.03 | dangergrrl | but they only made hundreds |
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| 00:42.42 | dangergrrl | so i think my next platform is the nook tablet |
| 00:42.51 | Hurrian | one has to wonder why it was actually put into production of hundreds even if it was to be binned |
| 00:42.56 | dangergrrl | i will be homeless |
| 00:43.01 | GeneralAntilles | dangergrrl, they made thousands, not hundreds. |
| 00:43.15 | GeneralAntilles | Hurrian, the decision clearly came after the production run. |
| 00:43.18 | Hurrian | how long were these in storage? |
| 00:43.28 | dangergrrl | maybe a week |
| 00:43.31 | GeneralAntilles | My sense is that the shift to WP7 was a pretty rapid change. |
| 00:43.52 | dangergrrl | that is what i understand too |
| 00:44.01 | Hurrian | there were leaked n950s on the internet for MONTHS before nokia said "hey guise, we're unloading excess stock" |
| 00:44.04 | dangergrrl | and i know a guy who works at nokia in finland |
| 00:44.18 | Hurrian | do you remember the prototype C0 with meego? |
| 00:44.23 | Hurrian | from china? |
| 00:44.34 | dangergrrl | he told me our dreams would be crushed |
| 00:45.16 | dangergrrl | i think the best platform right now for handheld is barnes and noble nook hacked with CM |
| 00:45.36 | dangergrrl | sorry |
| 00:45.39 | Hurrian | isnt the bootloader on new nooks locked? |
| 00:45.42 | dangergrrl | i love my n900 |
| 00:45.48 | Hurrian | or was it the kindle? |
| 00:45.50 | dangergrrl | it was broken last month |
| 00:46.07 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 00:46.23 | dangergrrl | before the bootloader break the kindle was the better deal |
| 00:46.53 | Hurrian | in ~1 year, maemo people would probably need a new phone |
| 00:46.59 | dangergrrl | i want an n9 |
| 00:47.08 | Hurrian | most here have owned their phone for 2 years already |
| 00:47.11 | dangergrrl | don't think i don't |
| 00:47.24 | dangergrrl | but it costs like $1000 us |
| 00:47.38 | Hurrian | @dangergrrl, the N9 is only a marginal hw improvement over the N900 |
| 00:47.39 | dangergrrl | and a nook tablet is $250 |
| 00:48.05 | psycho_oreos | and its a piece of crap, the n9 |
| 00:48.06 | Hurrian | it's not the quantum leap quad core omap device we've been waiting for |
| 00:48.06 | dangergrrl | it's a A9 dual core with only a little more ram |
| 00:48.48 | Hurrian | the N9 is quite literally early 2011 hardware |
| 00:49.21 | dangergrrl | the n9 is crap agreeable |
| 00:49.32 | dangergrrl | but do you want a tablet or a phone |
| 00:49.50 | Hurrian | only for maemo diehards "it's step 5!!!!!111!!!!" |
| 00:50.13 | dangergrrl | the NT with cyanogen is a nice step up |
| 00:50.13 | javispedro | what you should be asking is why didn't zehjotkah (on the picture) punch the other guy in the face http://t.co/m8Z3IbCF |
| 00:50.17 | Hurrian | i want a phonblet |
| 00:50.44 | dangergrrl | you have one |
| 00:51.07 | GeneralAntilles | There is no best platform. |
| 00:51.10 | *** join/#maemo psychologe (~psycholog@124.160.210.101) |
| 00:51.16 | dangergrrl | get a nook tablet and use voip |
| 00:51.25 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, because he's clearly got a better sense of irony than that. :P |
| 00:51.38 | Hurrian | 4.3-5 inches, Cortex A15 with SGX543MP gpu 2GB of ram and an embedded SATA SSD. one can only dream. |
| 00:51.39 | GeneralAntilles | Stupid FedEx |
| 00:51.43 | GeneralAntilles | "Incorrect address" |
| 00:51.44 | GeneralAntilles | My ass. |
| 00:52.03 | Hurrian | i'd probably go bankrupt trying to convince a china factory to build them |
| 00:52.04 | derf | I wouldn't deliver to your ass. |
| 00:52.26 | GeneralAntilles | derf, clearly you should unionize. |
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| 01:00.34 | javispedro | In the meanwhile, enjoy your resistive screens while you can |
| 01:00.40 | javispedro | capacitive sucks |
| 01:01.58 | javispedro | all those tricks to select text are laughable, even the harmattan one fails to me because uplifting the finger usually causes the cursor to move |
| 01:02.18 | ketas | capacitive is great pita |
| 01:02.32 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB3BDB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:02.35 | ketas | it's hard to use on laptop touchpad too |
| 01:02.41 | ketas | "things happening" |
| 01:02.46 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, amen. |
| 01:02.56 | DocScrutinizer | fsckng twitter URL again |
| 01:03.04 | ketas | hm |
| 01:03.18 | ketas | so n900 can't support sim toolkit? |
| 01:03.24 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: alt text: a picture of zehjotkah and elop both smiling |
| 01:03.25 | DocScrutinizer | noway |
| 01:03.39 | javispedro | @ mwc |
| 01:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: thanks |
| 01:03.47 | ketas | e-flop |
| 01:03.54 | DocScrutinizer | Flop |
| 01:04.18 | DocScrutinizer | oops, an _ missing at the "E" |
| 01:04.24 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 01:04.59 | javispedro | i am wearing out the camera button on my n900 :( |
| 01:05.11 | ketas | how come |
| 01:05.15 | javispedro | I can no longer get it to focus only |
| 01:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | I'll get you a new switch |
| 01:05.34 | DocScrutinizer | I think I've seen compatible ones at digikey |
| 01:05.38 | javispedro | I should pry it open some day |
| 01:05.38 | ketas | javispedro: tried to press half way? |
| 01:05.40 | ketas | :P |
| 01:05.57 | javispedro | ketas: had this thing for 2 years and a half already ;P |
| 01:06.29 | ketas | you mean you can't ever focus with button anymore? |
| 01:06.40 | ketas | haven't had that issue with my devices |
| 01:06.47 | ketas | i don't have n900, though |
| 01:06.49 | javispedro | I can with luck, it's just that the pressure required for it to trigger anything is large |
| 01:07.07 | javispedro | that's basically the definition of a weared out button =) |
| 01:07.25 | ketas | umm, but can you shoot normally? |
| 01:07.37 | ketas | only the focusing function is broken? |
| 01:07.52 | javispedro | I can shoot, but it's surely to fail soon too. |
| 01:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | get a new switch, and a monkey to solder it |
| 01:08.13 | ketas | haven't really heard that someone's phone's two-way camera button is broken |
| 01:08.28 | ketas | n900 specific issue? |
| 01:08.41 | ketas | i'm getting n900 soon |
| 01:08.42 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: I bet you haven't heard of a lot of things yet |
| 01:08.43 | ketas | a used one |
| 01:08.48 | javispedro | I could believe this is normal usage |
| 01:08.56 | javispedro | that button has probably been pressed ~10000 times |
| 01:09.13 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: you say that n900 is hw fail? |
| 01:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | which is ~ what it's specified for |
| 01:09.22 | javispedro | enough to be around the standard lifetime for cheap ones |
| 01:09.41 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: I say we probably know hw beter than you, if you haven't heard of such things yet |
| 01:10.09 | javispedro | maybe I should get a new front bezel, it's full of dents =) |
| 01:10.12 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: you mean specifically n900 hardware? |
| 01:10.12 | javispedro | *too. |
| 01:10.16 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: maybe yes |
| 01:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 01:10.53 | DocScrutinizer | I mean I'm an experienced EE and thus probably heard of things you never get to hear in your life |
| 01:10.58 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 01:11.05 | GeneralAntilles | ^ understatement |
| 01:11.15 | javispedro | hah |
| 01:12.05 | javispedro | For some reason I remembered that when I was on the plan, the RCA double jack to stereo adaptor thingie they give you on delta decided to desintegrate |
| 01:12.06 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: so you have heard many cases of phone camera button failures? |
| 01:12.12 | javispedro | s/plan/plane/ |
| 01:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | I've seen this sort of crappy button wear out way too often and way too fast |
| 01:12.49 | ketas | hmm |
| 01:12.51 | DocScrutinizer | on all sorts of hw |
| 01:13.10 | javispedro | the plastic self-destroyed and all the jack pieces were in my hand, and of course the attendant had to come at that moment |
| 01:13.26 | GeneralAntilles | You evil man. |
| 01:13.29 | javispedro | fortunately, I guess they've seen that thing explode often, because I was starting to believe they'd take me for a terrorist |
| 01:13.32 | GeneralAntilles | Destroying poor 3.5mm adaptors. |
| 01:13.44 | *** join/#maemo kurt555gs (~ircchatte@32.141.25.78) |
| 01:14.01 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 01:14.27 | javispedro | yeah, taking the plane apart, piece by piece! |
| 01:14.44 | GeneralAntilles | slowly starves to death for want of a clear thing to eat for dinner. |
| 01:14.58 | ketas | DocScrutinizer: however why would you say that i never get to hear such things in life? |
| 01:15.44 | GeneralAntilles | Because they're all in German. |
| 01:15.48 | DocScrutinizer | I thought of other things that you aren't very likely to hear about if you're not in industry as chief of HW dept or R&D |
| 01:16.51 | ketas | true, i'm not exactly in hw r&d field |
| 01:17.00 | DocScrutinizer | like Seiko selling backup batery button cells that have a death rate of 95% during 12 months of usage |
| 01:17.30 | GeneralAntilles | Hahaha |
| 01:17.31 | ketas | usual crap |
| 01:17.34 | GeneralAntilles | That's awesome. |
| 01:17.39 | DocScrutinizer | and literally everybody in mobile business used those cells like 2 years ago |
| 01:17.48 | ketas | what WTF |
| 01:18.21 | nox- | so n900 have them too? |
| 01:18.32 | DocScrutinizer | that's why N900 can't keep time of RTC when main bat removed, if it's a device in use since >12 months |
| 01:18.32 | ketas | is that cell primary one? |
| 01:18.40 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 01:18.51 | ketas | you can charge it then? |
| 01:18.52 | DocScrutinizer | LiIon Mg type |
| 01:18.55 | nox- | oh well... |
| 01:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | ~bupbat |
| 01:19.27 | ketas | foo |
| 01:19.30 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 01:20.46 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf |
| 01:20.51 | ketas | sad |
| 01:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | use the capacitive alternative, it 'just works' |
| 01:21.37 | ketas | i'm wondering if that's worth hassle to replace |
| 01:21.44 | Hurrian | ugh, crap, my phone's focus bottom's wearing out too |
| 01:22.08 | Hurrian | @docscrutinizer, would it be possible to just swap out the rtc bat for a capacitor? |
| 01:22.23 | Hurrian | dont feel to good about having a flat bat inside my phone |
| 01:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: yep, see the pdf I linked above, the capacitor types are same footprint and drop-in compatible |
| 01:23.27 | Hurrian | :O |
| 01:23.58 | ketas | what do they use in nowadays devices? |
| 01:24.05 | DocScrutinizer | of course they don't offer months of standby, like a fresh LiIon type does |
| 01:24.11 | psycho_oreos | grr any of you familiar with dpkg-deb --build? trying to recompile a deb file but even if I set TMPDIR && TMP variable to a place where it doesn't build in /tmp it still fails |
| 01:24.25 | Hurrian | @doc - who'd do that though? |
| 01:24.32 | DocScrutinizer | some did |
| 01:24.39 | DocScrutinizer | even here in this chan |
| 01:24.39 | Hurrian | if for months standby, i'd pull the bat out |
| 01:25.06 | ketas | that one too? |
| 01:25.11 | javispedro | psycho_oreos: you mean rebuild as in repackage? |
| 01:25.12 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: you can't pull out that backup bat |
| 01:25.23 | psycho_oreos | javispedro, yup |
| 01:25.38 | ketas | ah fuck |
| 01:25.45 | javispedro | psycho_oreos: pastebin the output |
| 01:25.55 | ketas | ok, how much have failed microusb socket? |
| 01:25.59 | Hurrian | no, i meant that if i'd leave the phone off for months, i'd pull the main bat and expect rtc to be reset |
| 01:26.10 | ketas | heard that was weak point too |
| 01:26.11 | javispedro | hah |
| 01:26.21 | javispedro | rtc resets on mine after 0.0001 seconds of main battery out |
| 01:26.41 | Hurrian | but for quick sim/bat changeouts, i'd want a cap instead of a dead battery |
| 01:27.20 | ketas | i'm wondering what is in my 5800 |
| 01:27.25 | ketas | still seems to keep time |
| 01:30.14 | Hurrian | @ketas, it's a very weak point on many units |
| 01:30.22 | psycho_oreos | javispedro, https://crypty.ch/p/ad5JH7Xg#1ca0a8f40b01bdfc899354a91556cb06 |
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| 01:32.11 | DocScrutinizer | ketas: probably primary cell |
| 01:32.32 | DocScrutinizer | they used to use LiIon primary some years ago |
| 01:32.53 | DocScrutinizer | often soldered to the flex cable that connects/forms the kbd |
| 01:33.29 | DocScrutinizer | and those were fine for years of standby |
| 01:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | actually my 6210 still holds RTC, even after years without mains battery, and that device got purchased 2000 |
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| 01:34.28 | ketas | that's only switched on when main battery is off, right? |
| 01:34.34 | DocScrutinizer | right |
| 01:35.35 | ketas | hmm, will be fine then, considering i almost always have battery charged |
| 01:35.57 | ketas | that it, i use it as my main phone |
| 01:36.08 | ketas | s/it/is/ |
| 01:36.26 | ketas | s/.*// |
| 01:36.58 | ketas | taking your words back is not that easy |
| 01:36.58 | Hurrian | @ketas, i would advise that you have usb port soldered down asap |
| 01:37.49 | ketas | well i'm only planning to get used n900 currently |
| 01:37.54 | ketas | i'll see what happens |
| 01:38.05 | Hurrian | if usb port works, solder it down and don't use it |
| 01:38.18 | DocScrutinizer | s/and/or/ |
| 01:38.22 | ketas | hah, don't used it?! |
| 01:38.34 | Hurrian | get a touchstone kit or something, then carve out the back of the phone's bl-5j |
| 01:38.58 | DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: eh? |
| 01:39.22 | Hurrian | the guide to minimal use of the USB port aka super paranoid mode |
| 01:39.33 | Hurrian | use it only for reflashing without backupmenu |
| 01:40.32 | Hurrian | data transfers = do over wifi (slow) or use microsd card |
| 01:40.44 | ketas | nah, i don't really twist cables around, i think it'll work |
| 01:40.57 | Hurrian | just be careful |
| 01:41.10 | Hurrian | also, who knows how old owner took care of that usb port. |
| 01:41.38 | Hurrian | at the very least, get usb port soldered down at some phone repair store |
| 01:42.06 | Hurrian | did you read the thread about preemptive fix? |
| 01:42.12 | ketas | if it breaks |
| 01:42.29 | Hurrian | it is a pita to fix if it breaks a certain way |
| 01:42.52 | ketas | hmm |
| 01:42.57 | Hurrian | if you're lucky, solder fractures and rips port off. solution: clean solder from board, buy new port |
| 01:43.00 | ketas | breaks traces, eh? |
| 01:43.14 | Hurrian | if solder pads break traces, thats a pita |
| 01:43.51 | Hurrian | @DocScrutinizer, what's the better way to fix it - solder closer to usb controller or use test pads? |
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| 01:44.42 | javispedro | in my 2 year and a half old n900 I have had no single problem with the usb port |
| 01:45.12 | DocScrutinizer | same here, with 2 devices |
| 01:45.12 | javispedro | and I use it heavily (how you think the ~10000 pictures were downloaded from it :D ) |
| 01:45.16 | *** join/#maemo dmb (dmb@unaffiliated/dmb) |
| 01:46.05 | ketas | hm hm hm... you suggest to fix it before it breaks? |
| 01:48.41 | Hurrian | YES! |
| 01:49.05 | Hurrian | @javispedro, you may be lucky then |
| 01:49.58 | Hurrian | i have had to fix 3 N900s with botched usb ports that i bought second-hand |
| 01:50.12 | ketas | oh well... |
| 01:50.28 | Hurrian | as in, they only charge, couldnt reflash because data lines were wobbly |
| 01:50.39 | ketas | hah, suggestion to file down microusb plug hooks |
| 01:51.23 | Hurrian | it actually helps a lot |
| 01:51.40 | Hurrian | have you tried pulling a usb cable with a hook? |
| 01:51.50 | Hurrian | it gives 5x the resistance |
| 01:52.09 | Hurrian | pushing it in is another story |
| 01:52.25 | Hurrian | it's fairly hard to line up a cable perfectly into the usb port |
| 01:53.02 | *** join/#maemo uhsf (~uhsf@24.53.63.62) |
| 01:54.02 | ketas | yea, it snaps fairly hard |
| 01:55.53 | ketas | looking pictures, so usb port isn't really supported besides from connecting pins? |
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| 02:01.24 | DocScrutinizer | nonsense, there are like 6 mech support posts |
| 02:01.58 | DocScrutinizer | get the plain PCB footprint at my N900-gallery |
| 02:02.17 | DocScrutinizer | you see the pads for mech support |
| 02:03.43 | DocScrutinizer | but on a number of devices it seems they did a poor job on keeping the receptacle component flush to PCB when soldering it down, so mech support may be poorly or even partially soldered |
| 02:04.07 | ketas | hmm, worth to check? |
| 02:04.15 | ketas | when i receive it |
| 02:06.24 | ketas | is there way to determine faulty batch from manufacturing date or is it random? |
| 02:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | definitely worh to check if USB works, yes |
| 02:07.07 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise, when you disassemble it anyway to check soldering, you as well can do ~usbfix |
| 02:07.39 | DocScrutinizer | which is first and foremost about reinforcing USB *before* it breaks |
| 02:08.29 | ketas | like http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=22215&d=1313848308 ? |
| 02:08.30 | DocScrutinizer | I dunno of any other way to determine whether device might have a wacky USB, than just inspecting it |
| 02:08.51 | DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly that one |
| 02:09.09 | Hurrian | most n900s are 2101 revision, so no |
| 02:10.00 | ketas | hmm, sad... so suggestion is to disassemble it for checking, before it breaks off with pcb traces (worst way possible) |
| 02:10.07 | ketas | ? |
| 02:11.01 | Hurrian | yes |
| 02:11.29 | Hurrian | actually, you can use the stylus to check for wobbliness |
| 02:11.59 | Hurrian | in any case, solder it down |
| 02:13.12 | ketas | however the owner says that phone is still covered with 2 months worth of warranty... although i don't think warranty helps me with still working device |
| 02:13.36 | ketas | maybe i should lie about usb problems?! :P |
| 02:14.06 | psycho_oreos | claiming it on warranty... bad idea |
| 02:14.43 | psycho_oreos | for starters it'll be one good way to rid your N900 and be offered some piece of crap symbian powered device (or two) |
| 02:15.54 | ketas | hmm |
| 02:16.41 | psycho_oreos | I simply think you're overlooking at a simple issue that most N900 faces. There's countless of other issues that N900 has when it was in the hands of the previous owner |
| 02:16.45 | ketas | you mean they rather replace it with something else? |
| 02:17.21 | psycho_oreos | if the threads on tmo doesn't tell you enough what people have subjected their lovely little (well it was lovely) N900 to, then I don't know what will |
| 02:17.24 | Hurrian | ketas, do you think nokia still has tons of rx-51 boards? |
| 02:17.31 | psycho_oreos | no they will replace it |
| 02:17.42 | ketas | well i'm aware of issues complex electronic device might be have if used by whoever |
| 02:17.51 | ketas | let's hope it will work |
| 02:18.09 | Hurrian | issues facing 2nd hand n900s: |
| 02:18.17 | psycho_oreos | when you test the device and it's starting to break, get it soldered, its not hard |
| 02:18.28 | psycho_oreos | err that microUSB port |
| 02:18.55 | Hurrian | wobbly usb, broken emmc, loose slider, shattered back cover, missing stylus |
| 02:19.09 | ketas | hmm |
| 02:19.58 | ketas | i'm going to examine it before i buy |
| 02:20.11 | ketas | from pictures it seems like it's good condition |
| 02:20.15 | Hurrian | its hard to describe how n900 slider is supposed to feel though |
| 02:20.32 | psycho_oreos | overclocked (excessively) N900, issues with MMC, coffee (or other liquids) spilt/dipped |
| 02:20.33 | ketas | like 5800? |
| 02:20.36 | Hurrian | it should be one smooth motion with slight resistance, then it clicks into place |
| 02:21.05 | Hurrian | then pushing the slider down, its slightly harder than opening it |
| 02:21.07 | ketas | oops |
| 02:21.17 | ketas | oh that thing |
| 02:21.26 | Hurrian | @psycho_oreos, has there ever been a confirmed case of CPU blowout? |
| 02:21.36 | ketas | you mean sliding of the keyboard? |
| 02:22.19 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, no because people are usually hush hush about the little stupidity things they do with the poor device that would otherwise benefit from proper cooling |
| 02:22.41 | ketas | i have played with n900 before, not sure if i remember how it felt |
| 02:23.38 | Hurrian | @psycho_oreos, i am fairly certain that i saw one tmo member's oc profile being 1000-1150. |
| 02:23.50 | psycho_oreos | its kinda like this: "hey so I have a problem with my N900, my wlan/bt/cell no longer works", "what does dmesg say?", "<out comes lots of text>", "hmm that's unusual, have you subjected the device with liquids before?", "yes previously but I managed to wipe the stains off", "..." |
| 02:23.56 | ketas | in other news, i broke topmost layer of display in my 5800 |
| 02:24.18 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, I'd love to see how long would his N900 last in that state.. without any extra cooling |
| 02:24.46 | Hurrian | never mind the fact that at OPP voltage level 60, that shit's crazy hot |
| 02:24.49 | ketas | burst in flames |
| 02:25.41 | ketas | btw, reminds me that most useless app i've found for a phone is palm heater |
| 02:25.44 | Hurrian | oh ketas, btw, make sure that your sim card fits in nice and tight |
| 02:25.47 | ketas | just turns everything on |
| 02:26.14 | Hurrian | @ketas, the N900 on stock clock with wifi on and heavy browsing does that just fine |
| 02:26.30 | ketas | good to hear |
| 02:26.36 | ketas | :) |
| 02:26.41 | psycho_oreos | there are other minor issues with second hand N900, such as battery is a bit loose or that the device bootloops when you first got it |
| 02:27.37 | Hurrian | @psycho_oreos - battery loose? wtf? |
| 02:28.18 | ketas | well from pictures, owner seems to have taken care of it... what i don't like is way he wrapped charger cable tightly around the charger |
| 02:28.26 | ketas | i'll see how it feels in hand |
| 02:28.32 | psycho_oreos | personally, I wouldn't buy N900 off internet or off remote places. The thing is that it would be far ideal for you to examine and then criticise the owner for any flaws.. especially liquid spills, if the device has been subjected to liquid of any form, consider expensive/costly issues in the long run |
| 02:28.54 | Hurrian | you're much better off getting a common charger plus a CA-101 filed down |
| 02:29.16 | Hurrian | the AC-10/U that comes with it sucks |
| 02:29.50 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, yeah the gold/bronze pins on the underside of BL-5J don't clip on well with the post on the N900, when for instance without the battery cover on the N900 and one holds the N900 in the usual obverse way, the battery either starts to hang out or completely falls off |
| 02:30.11 | Hurrian | and regarding liquid spills, do not get anything under the slide. |
| 02:30.21 | Hurrian | that portion is not covered |
| 02:30.22 | ketas | this is local auction site, owner even wants to meet in person to assure good working order of device |
| 02:30.30 | psycho_oreos | not even on the keymat |
| 02:30.43 | psycho_oreos | well that's an added bonus |
| 02:31.02 | Hurrian | @psycho_oreos, there's still the kb matrix clicky thing protecting the board |
| 02:31.34 | psycho_oreos | Hurrian, yeah but that maybe is only for minor spills, not major ones like submerging for instance :) |
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| 02:31.41 | Hurrian | it is a pita to replace yourself though |
| 02:31.48 | Hurrian | jeebus, the phone is full of holes |
| 02:31.53 | Hurrian | y u do dat |
| 02:32.18 | Hurrian | loudspeaker, giant hole for slider cage base, stylus, test pad holes, usb |
| 02:32.22 | ketas | my phone, it's full of holes!!! |
| 02:32.42 | ketas | my nokia n900 is full of eels |
| 02:33.02 | Hurrian | @psycho_oreos, how do you get the dust out of the back btw? |
| 02:34.09 | psycho_oreos | nah some people just don't appreciate how vulnerable electronics are, even to the point when they become handhelds.. they almost always have this rather strange belief that mobiles can withstand certain amounts of damages before it completely gives up. Even worse is the fact that N900 bearing Nokia branding, people have had issues with nokia phones by either excessively dropping the device onto hard surface and/or putting the device in for a wash.. |
| 02:34.09 | psycho_oreos | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:34.36 | psycho_oreos | bah he's gone |
| 02:37.27 | ketas | hmm, washing n900 |
| 02:37.33 | ketas | anyone managed to do it? |
| 02:38.41 | psycho_oreos | you may find some on tmo |
| 02:39.30 | psycho_oreos | I can't imagine washing N900 would be that interesting.. I'd rather see the owner washing themselves inside a washing machine instead |
| 02:40.45 | ketas | hmm |
| 02:41.02 | ketas | i would want human washing machine |
| 02:41.14 | SpeedEvil | ketas: err - why? |
| 02:41.23 | ketas | they made one for dogs already |
| 02:41.47 | SpeedEvil | I believe it's called a shower. |
| 02:42.22 | ketas | maybe the washing machine will help me washing more frequently |
| 02:42.24 | SpeedEvil | I've actually considered a device with a pressure-washer on 'mist' - and a really high velocity fan. |
| 02:42.28 | ketas | :P |
| 02:43.02 | psycho_oreos | or a bath.. but no, neither shower nor bath would be equivalent to being inside a washing machine.. you get fully submerged and being spun around several times |
| 02:43.18 | ketas | ouch |
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| 02:43.59 | ketas | i'd get dizzy |
| 02:44.27 | psycho_oreos | imagine what would your poor N900 be when it goes through the washing machine |
| 02:44.48 | ketas | i can feel pain of it |
| 02:45.46 | ketas | now, there are actually some phones available that are rated for submersion |
| 02:46.09 | ketas | i'm wondering how true it is |
| 02:46.10 | psycho_oreos | one could probably drown inside a human sized washing machine.. try holding your breath for maybe 10-20 minutes whilst being spun around vigorously.. and that being repeated at least 5 times within 1 hour wash |
| 02:46.39 | ketas | well, no need to spin body around |
| 02:46.48 | ketas | really |
| 02:47.01 | psycho_oreos | .. that's what washing machines do :p |
| 02:47.10 | ketas | well for clothes, yes |
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| 02:47.34 | psycho_oreos | no I'm saying this is what would usually happen if N900 happens to go through the wash |
| 02:47.34 | ketas | i think i opt for shower instead |
| 02:50.07 | psycho_oreos | the bottom line is that you should treat N900 with utmost respect. There aren't many N900 (that are working well) left in this world especially with the idiots putting their N900 in all sorts of different situations and then finding out their N900 is broken. |
| 02:50.30 | psycho_oreos | negligence is not an option.. its also essentially your money going down the drain |
| 02:52.50 | ketas | rare n900 |
| 02:53.13 | ketas | what about n9? :) |
| 02:53.28 | ketas | it's currently sold |
| 02:54.04 | psycho_oreos | not for long |
| 02:55.17 | ketas | sad that nokia chose windows |
| 02:55.20 | ketas | :( |
| 02:56.40 | psycho_oreos | in either case, should you acquire N900, I sincerely hope you would treat the device with respect. They are fairly rare already as it is when you factor out all those broken N900 that some dodgy seller is trying to reimburse their losses on |
| 02:57.55 | psycho_oreos | I mean the ones that tries to sell their broken N900 identically to the same price as those who sell their fully functioning N900 as and declaring their N900 is free of defects |
| 02:58.27 | ketas | should i put it on silk pillow? |
| 02:59.48 | ketas | what's the reasonable price of n900? |
| 03:03.12 | psycho_oreos | do whatever you think is reasonable to your N900, just don't complain and whinge back at us when you've been negligent |
| 03:03.53 | psycho_oreos | the last I checked was somewhere around AUD$300 for a functional N900 with all the original equipment |
| 03:05.31 | ketas | i found one with 168 eur |
| 03:06.50 | psycho_oreos | a little high priced imo, if the seller would offer meetup then I'd do that otherwise no |
| 03:08.34 | ketas | phone, belt bag, some smaller bag, charger, usb cable, charging adapter, cleaning cloth, box, handsfree |
| 03:09.44 | ketas | video cable too |
| 03:10.08 | psycho_oreos | those bags aren't part of the standard N900 afaik |
| 03:10.25 | psycho_oreos | the rest are pretty much standard minus quick start guide |
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| 03:13.17 | ketas | https://www.osta.ee/index.php?fuseaction=item.info&id=24618194 |
| 03:13.23 | ketas | well, i'll see |
| 03:15.31 | psycho_oreos | there's also that charger adapter, which is not part of the standard pack that I got. You might want to be a bit weary of that charger adapter too should you purchase one |
| 03:16.40 | psycho_oreos | and the quick start guide is included, so it appears to me that those bags plus the charger adapter are extras |
| 03:17.30 | ketas | in some areas, charging adapter was included |
| 03:18.14 | ketas | i've read |
| 03:18.21 | ketas | can't remember if also here |
| 03:19.52 | psycho_oreos | http://www.kauplus.ee/images/big/8054.jpg <--- that? you sure? I never got that with my N900 |
| 03:20.58 | ketas | well some reviewer got it |
| 03:22.22 | psycho_oreos | he may have that limited edition promotion box N900 |
| 03:22.52 | ketas | http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications#package-sspc |
| 03:23.00 | ketas | it mentions charging adapter |
| 03:23.15 | ketas | however notices that exact package may vary |
| 03:24.02 | ketas | it was put on site by mistake? |
| 03:25.40 | psycho_oreos | hmm interesting.. well I don't know, the N900 that I got never came with that and I had to purchase that separately |
| 03:26.05 | psycho_oreos | I guess the two bags are what the original owner purchased separately |
| 03:26.44 | ketas | yes |
| 03:28.44 | ketas | probably |
| 03:30.08 | psycho_oreos | I still don't see how those bags would justify the high pricing for the overall sale. if anything they depreciate by as much as half value when initially purchased |
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| 03:43.37 | ketas | psycho_oreos: i don't understand, you said that price around 300 aud is normal? |
| 03:44.29 | psycho_oreos | ketas, yes but that's awhile ago |
| 03:45.57 | ketas | psycho_oreos: oh |
| 03:46.03 | ketas | p |
| 03:46.07 | ketas | s/p// |
| 03:46.16 | ketas | pats infobot |
| 03:46.23 | ketas | yea, i meant nothing |
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| 03:47.17 | ketas | psycho_oreos: so i'll be paying way too much? |
| 03:47.55 | ketas | psycho_oreos: maybe yes |
| 03:48.51 | psycho_oreos | ketas, maybe, I just piped a few lines into google translate and that item seems to be sold |
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| 04:00.31 | ketas | psycho_oreos: there is language select |
| 04:01.12 | ketas | psycho_oreos: yes, sold to me... |
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| 06:57.46 | Macer | does maemo support playing wma files? |
| 06:57.50 | Macer | i never tried it :) |
| 06:59.38 | psycho_oreos | unencrpyted WMA with extra-decoders support might |
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| 07:55.15 | Macer | it worked |
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| 11:25.03 | ShadowJK | hm, this N900's cellmo failure is progressing much much faster than the first N900 i had with same failure |
| 11:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | OOH FSCK |
| 11:26.36 | DocScrutinizer | you should pester Nokia to provide proper info on nature of this defect |
| 11:26.49 | DocScrutinizer | so there's at least a chance to fix it |
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| 11:26.57 | DocScrutinizer | or even avoid it |
| 11:27.10 | DocScrutinizer | in USA you'd start a class action |
| 11:28.20 | ShadowJK | Except for the usb, the emmc and cellmo failure modes are diffuse enough to make people think shit software, nokia can't do software blah blah and then buy iphone |
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| 11:28.56 | ShadowJK | and even in case of usb failure there's no attempts at making nokia make it right? :/ |
| 11:29.34 | jonwil | When my USB failed under warranty, they just replaced it with a new N900 no questions asked |
| 11:30.44 | DocScrutinizer | I just wondered for 50s whether I could find someone to investigate that problem to do me a favour, at office at 4th floor |
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| 11:31.04 | DocScrutinizer | then I thought "WTF?! @Nokia they already did it" |
| 11:31.20 | ShadowJK | are you sure |
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| 11:32.24 | ShadowJK | repair centre keeps phone 2months, flashes firmware, sends it back. User sends phone back for repair, repair centre keeps phone 2 months, sends a replacement. 25% of warranty period successfully wasted. |
| 11:32.42 | ShadowJK | they dont need to investigate :D |
| 11:34.06 | ShadowJK | and nokia doesn't do repairs? all outsourced |
| 11:34.33 | DocScrutinizer | they need to investigate, I'm sure about that. Somebody inside Nokia will get upset, and some statistics don't look good |
| 11:36.30 | DocScrutinizer | when you get a significant peak on a particular failuremode, and that failuremode is neither expected in that frequency nor clearly understood, then all the alarms start to yell at a hw manufacturer |
| 11:37.30 | DocScrutinizer | esp wehn you use basically same chipset that most probably is involved in that failure, in a later model as well |
| 11:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | I bet a N950 that Nokia has at least a file about the issue |
| 11:38.54 | DocScrutinizer | it's their #1024 I guess |
| 11:42.06 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, you might need this to get last post: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/1024 |
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| 11:55.15 | ShadowJK | cellmo is returning to state at poweron on its own, raising rst. on linux side kernel notices rst line change, and a watchdog timeout occurs on communication with cellmo. Seems like some sort of recovery then happens, where software side on linux is reset and cellmo taken out of reset, initializing everything over |
| 11:56.07 | ShadowJK | It seems be more reproducible (thumb and finger pinch at 'f' on keyboard) if there's data transfer going on |
| 11:58.48 | DocScrutinizer | hell, Nokia Research and Analysis shall have a decent investigation of an error this precisely defined |
| 11:59.12 | ShadowJK | it never ever fails if N900 is sitting on a desk, can stream audio over 3g forever |
| 11:59.38 | ShadowJK | it only fails from pressure or acceleration |
| 11:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder if we can find anybody inside Nokia who's willing to shed some light on it, if not actually disclosing XRay, files, statistics etc |
| 12:01.18 | ShadowJK | well I can't even find anyone at Nokia that can tell me how the hell you're supposed to do warranties now that they no longer have nokia care points |
| 12:01.18 | DocScrutinizer | I mean, it's not acceptable that for some people SEVERAL devices break with this error during a 2 plus a lil years period of device usage, and Nokia doesn't even help to fix the issue |
| 12:01.22 | ShadowJK | drive to espoo? |
| 12:02.13 | ShadowJK | so chances of finding someone much much smarter than a person who could provide a mail address to repair centre seems unlikely :P |
| 12:03.13 | DocScrutinizer | I'm hoping for a few friends at HEL etc |
| 12:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | esp dm8 who only has to cross street to pester them until somebody comes up with an answer ;-) |
| 12:04.12 | DocScrutinizer | haven't seen him for quite a while though :-S |
| 12:06.46 | ShadowJK | I wonder if it's pcb flexing |
| 12:07.31 | DocScrutinizer | quite possibly |
| 12:07.46 | DocScrutinizer | might well be related to poor BGA soldering |
| 12:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | but of course may also be something completely different |
| 12:08.25 | DocScrutinizer | bonding breakage comes to mind |
| 12:08.45 | DocScrutinizer | poorly done vias come to mind |
| 12:08.56 | DocScrutinizer | corrosion |
| 12:09.47 | DocScrutinizer | components at edge of spec (Cs may have -50% from what's "printed on them", see #1024) |
| 12:09.59 | ShadowJK | my first n900 with this fault was replaced, corrosion would be a "your fault you luser" thing wouldn't it? |
| 12:10.16 | DocScrutinizer | nah, nokia never did this |
| 12:10.26 | DocScrutinizer | except for *obvious* cases |
| 12:10.56 | ShadowJK | oh I thought they did it if you ever got a call in a fog |
| 12:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | corrosion may happen on several levels |
| 12:11.39 | DocScrutinizer | and usually investigation of such cause is way more expensive than a simple swap no questions asked |
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| 13:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen achippa |
| 13:34.12 | infobot | i haven't seen 'achippa', DocScrutinizer |
| 13:34.17 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen achipa |
| 13:34.17 | infobot | achipa <~attila@a91-155-190-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 118d 3h 43m 26s ago, saying: 'also libqtm-12 seems to have lost the promotion block so it's borked in general as it propagated to testing'. |
| 13:34.39 | DocScrutinizer | umm |
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| 14:22.40 | dm8tbr | ~seen attila |
| 14:22.46 | infobot | dm8tbr: i haven't seen 'attila' |
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| 16:38.38 | ShadowJK | Everyone who is afraid of breaking the usb port, don't look: http://enivax.net/jk/n900/usb_ok.jpg |
| 16:38.41 | ShadowJK | tempting fate.. |
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| 16:39.22 | javispedro | I have been careless with mine's and still's there |
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| 16:39.42 | RST38h | moo javispedro |
| 16:39.57 | javispedro | moo RST38h |
| 16:40.07 | RST38h | ShadowJK: this arrangement is actually ok, you are not bending the port |
| 16:40.21 | ShadowJK | it is hanging at a bit of an angle :P |
| 16:40.47 | RST38h | urgh |
| 16:41.34 | NIN101 | awww ShadowJK, this image hurts so much. |
| 16:42.24 | javispedro | you should put a zip drive in the 3.5 slot there |
| 16:42.36 | javispedro | then, eject the drive when the n900 needs some rest |
| 16:42.54 | javispedro | (or when you want to definitely break the port :) ) |
| 16:43.32 | ShadowJK | but the usb port is in the 3.5" slot :P |
| 16:44.04 | javispedro | thinking the one that seems to be behind the n900, but it might be something else |
| 16:45.00 | ShadowJK | yeah it's a card reader / usb port combo that fits in 3.5" slot |
| 16:45.09 | ShadowJK | the usb port is part of it |
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| 16:45.57 | ShadowJK | transfering emmc contents from my backup pc to my spare n900 |
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| 20:18.04 | tgalal | is harmattan's accounts framework accessible through python? |
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| 22:14.44 | ShadowJK | Now my N900 dropped off cellular entirely. It has really degraded quickly, in a weekend |
| 22:14.53 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
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| 22:22.18 | Hurrian | @ShadowJK, wdym, the cell applet disappears or cell svcs just fail? |
| 22:24.55 | ShadowJK | both actually |
| 22:26.23 | Hurrian | the cell applet is just buggy for me |
| 22:26.28 | Hurrian | prolly need to reflash soon |
| 22:27.34 | ShadowJK | dmesg is filled with cmt crashing |
| 22:28.53 | Hurrian | ah, well i get none of that |
| 22:34.57 | ShadowJK | Second N900 of mine that has died this way |
| 22:43.21 | Hurrian | you can still use it as a thin client though |
| 22:43.24 | Hurrian | and testing stuff |
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| 22:55.13 | ShadowJK | as tablet |
| 22:55.21 | ShadowJK | but I have 10 months left on warranty |
| 22:55.42 | ShadowJK | hm, it seems somewhat tricky to convince N900 and my linux PC to do transfer over USB in a sensible way |
| 22:55.54 | ShadowJK | I was using wifi, but decided to switch to usb for speed... |
| 22:56.35 | ShadowJK | notices a top speed of 15 megabytes/sec when switching scheduler on pc from cfq to noop, but then it dropped to 7M after switch complete |
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| 23:42.14 | concept | ~flashing |
| 23:42.14 | infobot | [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
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