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| 01:31.50 | DocScrutinizer | semi-OT: http://javad.com/downloads/javadgnss/publications/20112312.pdf (GPS [+ mobile phones]) |
| 01:49.52 | merlin1991 | intresting read |
| 01:53.59 | tank-man | it better be :) |
| 01:55.55 | tank-man | i saw the word filter and had nightmares of analog electronics class |
| 02:00.35 | DocScrutinizer | tank-man: like 99.9% of EE staff that was responsible of building mass products from some crappy reference design done in USA |
| 02:00.54 | SpeedEvil | It's largely irrelevant. |
| 02:01.03 | SpeedEvil | Sure - better filters can be designed. |
| 02:01.21 | SpeedEvil | However, the problem is that aviation GPSs often have _long_ lifes. |
| 02:01.35 | SpeedEvil | And would not normally be replaced because they're 5 years old. |
| 02:01.54 | SpeedEvil | (because they are expensive!) |
| 02:02.22 | SpeedEvil | This means that if L^2 goes ahead - much of the installed infrastructure for airborne GPS needs replaced. |
| 02:02.27 | DocScrutinizer | nah, the problem is that EE staff didn't consider to use better (not asking for 'optimal') filters in those friggin expensive aviation GPS |
| 02:02.55 | SpeedEvil | The bandplan specifically says that it's supposed to be a quiet low-power zone. |
| 02:03.05 | SpeedEvil | It's not unreasonable to design on that basis. |
| 02:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | errr |
| 02:04.46 | DocScrutinizer | not in compliance with my rule of "be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you expect from others" |
| 02:04.53 | SpeedEvil | I agree. |
| 02:05.05 | SpeedEvil | From an ideal POV it's not great. |
| 02:05.36 | SpeedEvil | But as an in-reality design, limited by cost, it's not unreasonable to design to regulations + a buffer. |
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| 02:05.54 | SpeedEvil | Without expecting signals a million times stronger in the skirts. |
| 02:06.06 | DocScrutinizer | not if it turns out a better filter is even cheaper |
| 02:06.24 | SpeedEvil | Only if cheaper is cheaper in terms of design time too. |
| 02:06.28 | DocScrutinizer | they were outright *lazy* to even think about it |
| 02:09.00 | DocScrutinizer | esp for a GLOBAL POSITIONING system for AVIATION, how could they expect whole world folows their fubar idea of FCC regulations? |
| 02:09.36 | ShadowJK | Dude we're aviation, we always get our way |
| 02:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | even at design time they couldn't guarantee this is "supposed to be a quiet low-power zone" globally |
| 02:10.09 | ShadowJK | passengers buying cheap water bottles outside of airport and bringing onto airplane, onboard refreshments sales dropping? No problem, ban water. |
| 02:13.21 | DocScrutinizer | now add in the rationale of this guy that a better filter design improves the GPS accuracy and TTFF even without any L^2 around, and you start to ask what the F* those EE had in their design specs when they designed the schematics for a $$$$$$ aviation device |
| 02:14.24 | ShadowJK | btw |
| 02:14.42 | ShadowJK | I don't remember this exactly |
| 02:14.47 | ShadowJK | but it's about the transponder design |
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| 02:15.52 | ShadowJK | If airplane A and airplane B are at 1km and 2km north of an airport, their transponder signals get ORed |
| 02:16.22 | ShadowJK | (or something like that) |
| 02:17.07 | SpeedEvil | It's not. |
| 02:17.11 | DocScrutinizer | transponder accuracy might well be worse than 1km resolution |
| 02:17.13 | SpeedEvil | This is about GPS. |
| 02:17.28 | SpeedEvil | And a proposal to put a high power internet service _right_ next to the GPS signal. |
| 02:17.42 | ShadowJK | Um, I meant that as in "btw about aviation EE design" |
| 02:17.42 | DocScrutinizer | is insane, agreed |
| 02:18.17 | ShadowJK | I did not mean that the article above is about transponders in any way |
| 02:18.22 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 02:18.34 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I'm not properly awake. |
| 02:18.48 | DocScrutinizer | propagation delay in transponder is probably main issue about all that |
| 02:19.10 | ShadowJK | However, the current transponder system makes signals add up and bitwise OR together when airplanes are in certains locations relative to ground receiver |
| 02:19.28 | ShadowJK | Well, the regular transponder only has ID and altitude, no position data |
| 02:19.37 | DocScrutinizer | and duration to TX the 'telegram' is way longer than the time skew between two planes 1km apart from each other |
| 02:20.01 | ShadowJK | however, there are special ID codes reserved for "Help, I'm hijacked and everything I say is a lie" |
| 02:20.28 | ShadowJK | fx |
| 02:20.32 | SpeedEvil | is awaiting a GPS research board. Fun. |
| 02:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | the position data is based on radar principle |
| 02:20.51 | SpeedEvil | Someones making a few prototypes, which should allow fun stuff. |
| 02:21.01 | SpeedEvil | STM32F can do correlation from a raw baseband chip |
| 02:21.02 | DocScrutinizer | that's why propagation delay in transponders is of any concern |
| 02:21.03 | SpeedEvil | Fun. |
| 02:21.41 | SpeedEvil | Some of the new arm microcontrollers are getting silly. |
| 02:22.01 | ShadowJK | So if two airplanes with transponder identification codes that when bitwise ORed with eachother add up to that emergency code passes close to eachother, it triggers an alarm in the air traffic control, and the airplanes when landing will be greeted by a swat team :P |
| 02:22.57 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I guess transponders do implicit TDMA, by simple difference in distance to airport transceiver |
| 02:23.46 | DocScrutinizer | so if two airplanes are in line as seen from airport, they have to be separate from each other by at least telegram TX duration |
| 02:23.55 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise "media collision" |
| 02:26.15 | DocScrutinizer | of course you could do a completely different scheme: e.g. correlate the time of rx the radar pulse to some (e.g. GPS based) global clock, then send this tuple back to tower out-of-band with arbitrary time delay |
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| 02:26.59 | SpeedEvil | Unless you can say 'planes with bit 4 unset do not transmit' |
| 02:27.00 | DocScrutinizer | and possibly even a protocol layer above it to secure transmission against packet loss |
| 02:27.21 | SpeedEvil | In which case you can work out which aren't. |
| 02:29.47 | ShadowJK | You know in places you still have to navigate by using the radio direction finder to determine the bearing to AM beacons :) |
| 02:31.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and doing some addr decoding in transponder isn't possible I'd guess. Introduces too much propagation delay |
| 02:32.49 | DocScrutinizer | I don't even know if RADAR from tower is carrying any info at all, or is just a simple pulse |
| 02:33.06 | ShadowJK | pulse |
| 02:33.13 | DocScrutinizer | to which the transponder answers in 'no time' |
| 02:34.48 | ShadowJK | There's a separate FM system at 108 - 118 Mhz (iirc) that's slightly more sophisticated than the radio direction finding, the aircraft can determine the bearing from radio station to itself |
| 02:35.11 | DocScrutinizer | hard to do any CDMA/CD scheme or MAC addressing on such a media channel |
| 02:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | FM lighthouse |
| 02:36.08 | DocScrutinizer | sending directionally unique signals |
| 02:37.18 | DocScrutinizer | send a unidirectional beacon pulse followed by a directional sweep |
| 02:37.48 | DocScrutinizer | time diff between beacon and sweep will tell you relative angle to lighthouse |
| 02:38.43 | DocScrutinizer | s/uni/omni/ |
| 02:39.06 | ShadowJK | "A VOR ground station sends out a master signal, and a highly directional second signal that varies in phase 30 times a second compared to the master. This signal is timed so that the phase varies as the secondary antenna spins, such that when the antenna is 90 degrees from north, the signal is 90 degrees out of phase of the master. By comparing the phase of the secondary signal to the master, the angle (bearing) to the station can be determined." |
| 02:39.53 | DocScrutinizer | well, basically what I said |
| 02:41.55 | DocScrutinizer | just that they use the carrier of the omnidirectional beacon itself as a time base |
| 02:43.06 | DocScrutinizer | while I wonder how you're supposed to either a) receive two signals of exactly same frequency, or b) correlate phase of two signals with different frequency |
| 02:44.22 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe they don't send the 'master' beacon continuously, but actually do it like I said |
| 02:45.13 | DocScrutinizer | and all that phase voodoo is just describing the encoding of the time skew vs angle to tower |
| 02:46.20 | DocScrutinizer | so the receiver doesn't need to detect exact moment the sweep signal comes in, but rather look at phase of that signal |
| 02:50.02 | DocScrutinizer | AAAH, now I even parsed the "30 times a second" part |
| 02:51.20 | DocScrutinizer | that's probably the TDMA freq of master and sweep signal |
| 02:55.07 | DocScrutinizer | I gather the beacon is of noticeably different duration than the sweep signal, so receiver can distinguish the both |
| 02:58.08 | ShadowJK | In 1940 this thing was implemented by two antennas, one fixed antenna, and one directional antenna. The directional antenna was made to spin around by a motor. |
| 03:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, sure |
| 03:01.05 | DocScrutinizer | I first parsed that quote like the antenna would spin 30/s |
| 03:01.31 | DocScrutinizer | which obviously is nonsense |
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| 03:04.33 | DocScrutinizer | in the simple lighthouse scheme you'd send a beacon with e.g 2kHz modulation when rotating antenna is at 0° position, and the sweep signal from rotating antenna would come in with e.g 1kHz modulation, between 0..2s after the beacon, depending on speed of ratation and your bearing from tower |
| 03:05.10 | DocScrutinizer | you'd need knowledge about that roation speed of that lighthouse, to decode the signal |
| 03:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | for the phaseshift TDMA signal you don't |
| 03:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | dang, rotation* |
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| 03:06.56 | DocScrutinizer | otoh you know rotation speed from beacon freq |
| 03:08.47 | DocScrutinizer | you *could* decode the simple lighthouse scheme signal 'by hand' with a simple FM-radio. You can't do that for the phaseshift encoded signal |
| 03:12.06 | DocScrutinizer | what however makes the simple lighthouse inferior to phaseshift TDMA is the TX power you need for the omnidirectional beacon (while I don't see why the TDMA scheme does need two antennae at all) |
| 03:17.11 | DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn |
| 03:17.11 | infobot | well, xyawn is coffee |
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| 09:06.54 | bindi | is it possible to share the the 3G with wifi in ap mode? on the n900 |
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| 09:08.09 | bindi | actually bluetooth DUN will do, gonna try |
| 09:08.45 | psycho_oreos | you can't enable AP mode on the N900 |
| 09:10.19 | dm8tbr | IIRC there is no publicly available AP mode firmware for the TI-WL15xx |
| 09:13.03 | dm8tbr | wl125x that is |
| 09:21.41 | bindi | eh, how does bluetooth DUN work |
| 09:21.57 | bindi | i installed bluetooth DUN on the n900, bluetooth is enabled, paired with my device, and got a PAN client app for it |
| 09:23.43 | bindi | right lol |
| 09:23.49 | bindi | i migth not want PAN when using DUN apparently |
| 09:23.51 | bindi | is confused |
| 09:29.40 | bindi | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1525793 |
| 09:29.43 | bindi | any of this possible on the n900? |
| 09:30.33 | bindi | http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking found this |
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| 10:26.49 | Sicelo | n900 can do that and more bindi. even the question asked at the end of that thread .. n900 can do it ;) |
| 10:27.35 | bindi | right well, i got as far as "ifup usb0" and while in pc suite mode |
| 10:27.48 | bindi | and that's when i had no idea what to do next :p |
| 10:28.45 | Sicelo | pats his N900 |
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| 10:29.51 | bindi | trying to share connection to my ICS tablet with either bluetooth or usbv |
| 10:30.07 | Sicelo | loving h-e-n + CDMA modem to setup a ppp connection. i use it when updating sofware because cdma costs half as much as regular GSM data (gprs/3g) |
| 10:30.10 | bindi | usb*.. since asus decided to drop ad-hoc support |
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| 10:38.14 | Sicelo | bindi: bluetooth should be less battery intensive, i believe :/ |
| 10:39.40 | Sicelo | dnsmasq on N900 also a great thing ... my boss with SGSII was surprised to see my 'poor' N900 assigning IP addresses to devices :P |
| 10:40.56 | bindi | yeah i'll give bluetooth PAN a go in a bit |
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| 12:39.57 | DocScrutinizer | PAN is a virtual ethernet patch cable, while DUN is a virtual USB 3G dongle |
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| 12:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | when using N900 for access to 3G via PCsuite mode, you frequently use the 3G USB dongle mode, though PCsuite also provides a ethernet-over-USB |
| 12:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | but stock kernel is missing the required ipfilter functions in kernel to do proper ip-forwarding and masquerading |
| 12:44.34 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI with powerkernel it should be no problem to share the network via USB-network (or PAN) |
| 12:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | first you set up PAN or USB network, then you simply do the command voodoo on N900 that's suggested for your PC under "sharing your PC internet to N900 via USB" in wiki |
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| 13:45.53 | jonwil | hi |
| 13:46.01 | jonwil | ~seen pali |
| 13:46.04 | infobot | pali is currently on #maemo (1h 53m 8s) #maemo-ssu (1h 53m 8s), last said: 'freemangordon, see ^^^^^'. |
| 13:47.57 | Pali | hi |
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| 13:50.28 | jonwil | so who exactly is it that you sent emails to @ nokia about source (i.e. which packages did you contact maintainers of?) |
| 13:54.38 | Pali | jonwil, a lot of, now idea of number :D |
| 13:54.39 | Pali | if you want know which all apps I can find it in email history |
| 13:54.53 | jonwil | that would be nice :P |
| 13:56.08 | Pali | but only few people from nokia sent me responce, that they look for status of package but nobody (except that certman) send me source code :D |
| 13:57.03 | jonwil | yeah certman and the browser daemon stuff seem to be all we have gotten |
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| 13:57.49 | Pali | now I cannot start other app, because wine is shit and created 10^n empty files :-( on my hdd |
| 13:57.49 | Pali | I started script: find . -name ".wine-refresh*" -print | xargs rm |
| 13:58.34 | SpeedEvil | It's good practice to use -print0|xargs -0 |
| 13:58.59 | jonwil | if I wasnt still having problems, I would mail the connui-cellular maintainer, the icd-wlan maintainer and the hildon-input-method maintainer |
| 13:59.02 | SpeedEvil | otherwise fun things happen when you have files named "...\n-rf /' |
| 13:59.11 | Pali | rm * does not work (too many arguments) |
| 13:59.42 | Pali | I got info that meego/harmattan profiled daemon (which is used for general/silent mode) is open source and interface has same as in fremantle |
| 14:00.26 | Pali | SpeedEvil, only files .wine-refresh-xxx |
| 14:00.44 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 14:02.17 | Pali | jonwil, fremantle profiled is closed, but both fremantle and harmattan support more profiles (not only general & silent) |
| 14:02.17 | Pali | it would be nice to create more profiles in daemon and use it :-) |
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| 14:06.24 | jonwil | according to the profile daemon meego source, the oldest change log entry says "Harmattan branch of profiled. Branched from Fremantle 0.0.17." |
| 14:06.32 | jonwil | PR1.3 version of profiled is 0.0.189 |
| 14:06.34 | jonwil | PR1.3 version of profiled is 0.0.18 |
| 14:06.58 | jonwil | then later it says "Import profiled fixes from Fremantle to Harmattan" |
| 14:07.08 | jonwil | so presumably that means importing the 0.0.18 changes |
| 14:09.06 | Pali | jonwil, you can try to build version from git |
| 14:09.27 | Pali | I got info that some files (like osso-backup scripts) is not present in harmattan version |
| 14:09.48 | Pali | so must be copied from fremantle (but it is only shell scripts/text config files) |
| 14:11.00 | jonwil | MeeGo profiled source tree has osso-backup folder in its repo along with osso-rfs-scripts and osso-cud-scripts |
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| 14:11.35 | jonwil | as well as debian packaging bits |
| 14:12.03 | Pali | then ok |
| 14:12.14 | jonwil | if I wasnt busy with other things right now I would grab that git repo, make a package and compare with Fremantle profild |
| 14:12.18 | jonwil | and see what is different/missing |
| 14:12.51 | jonwil | but I am too busy :) |
| 14:13.26 | Pali | 3 days ago I sent mail to osso-backup developer about state of that package |
| 14:13.39 | Pali | in copyright is GPL license |
| 14:13.49 | Pali | but source code missing |
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| 14:16.04 | Pali | jonwil, yesterday my script found source code of osso-backup but only for maemo 3.2: |
| 14:16.06 | Pali | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.2/free/source/ |
| 14:16.35 | Pali | and it is really GPL |
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| 14:17.28 | jonwil | Should be possible to take the encryption bits from that tree and see what happens when you feed a Fremantle encrypted backup through it |
| 14:18.11 | Pali | encryption is only in zip I think |
| 14:18.36 | jonwil | no, encryption is not zip encryption |
| 14:18.43 | jonwil | its using AES on top of the zip file |
| 14:19.27 | jonwil | I know this because I tried to reverse engineer it a while back |
| 14:20.30 | jonwil | good job finding it though, it should be possible to make a tool to decrypt osso-backup files without a n900 to restore it with |
| 14:21.59 | Pali | jonwil, ok then if you have time try it :-) |
| 14:22.11 | jonwil | if I get the time I will play with it some more |
| 14:22.40 | Pali | grep saying this: #include <openssl/aes.h> |
| 14:22.48 | jonwil | yep |
| 14:22.54 | Pali | AES_set_decrypt_key |
| 14:22.55 | jonwil | I know its using openssl, I knew that before |
| 14:23.21 | Pali | so source code for that now we have :-) |
| 14:23.39 | jonwil | I should be able to run the old source files through Fremantle GCC and compare it to Fremantle osso-backup and see whats different |
| 14:23.54 | jonwil | for the couple of source files involved in decryption |
| 14:23.59 | jonwil | compare as in disassemble with IDA :) |
| 14:24.58 | Pali | freemangordon, merlin1991, DocScrutinizer, see ^^^^ I think now we can decrypt n900 backup without n900 |
| 14:25.22 | jonwil | It will take some work but it looks like the code pali found is close to the N900 code |
| 14:25.29 | jonwil | the function names at least match what I remember seeing |
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| 14:26.04 | Pali | jonwil, maybe looking on repository.maemo.org we can find more closed packages :P |
| 14:26.19 | jonwil | maybe, please keep looking :) |
| 14:26.55 | Pali | next I found diablo MCE source code (in rtcom repo, but I think you know that) |
| 14:27.17 | Pali | and that is all, for what I search |
| 14:27.37 | jonwil | yeah I already seen diablo MCE code |
| 14:27.48 | jonwil | not that useful since on Diablo all the jucy stuff was in DSME |
| 14:28.01 | jonwil | and on Fremantle the moved the "secret" bits to MCE so they could open up DSME |
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| 14:28.38 | jonwil | then on MeeGo they removed some of the good stuff (presumably because it was still secret or because MeeGo didn't need it or both) and released MCE code |
| 14:28.53 | jonwil | and Harmattan used the open MeeGo MCE code as a base |
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| 14:32.17 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: (profiled) Mohammad and me looked into that some "years ago", and already found out that profiled does support arbitrary profiles, but the profile switcher plugin of statusmenu (iirc) was the roadblock to actually use this feature |
| 14:32.54 | jonwil | Still good that we found source code that is close enough to Fremantle code to be usable as a replacement |
| 14:33.04 | jonwil | or at least it should be, will do some checks and reverse engineering later to verify |
| 14:33.45 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, ok, so we only needs to rewrite status menu, systemui and control panel applet :D just funny |
| 14:36.39 | jonwil | is maemo.org down for anyone else? |
| 14:36.42 | Pali | jonwil, developer of fremantle profiled version wrote me that new harmattan is compatible and if I know some problems to use it I can write and he can help me |
| 14:36.53 | jonwil | ok |
| 14:37.05 | jonwil | well I still plan to check it just for fun :) |
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| 14:37.09 | jonwil | when I get the chance |
| 14:37.30 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: well, if we can augment profiled so it properly reacts to dbus msgs and sets/stores arbitrary profiles, we would have a nice thing to base on |
| 14:38.07 | jonwil | yeah |
| 14:38.25 | jonwil | as for the plugins, I am checking now to see just what we would need to replace for profile stuff |
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| 14:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | I also would *love* to teach profiled to not only care about ringtone and volume and vib, but also for arbitrary other settings |
| 14:39.28 | DocScrutinizer | on a opt-in basis |
| 14:39.49 | jonwil | perfect candidate for the CSSU, improved profiled |
| 14:39.56 | jonwil | with config options to enable the extra settings |
| 14:40.03 | jonwil | and rewritten cpl and status bar gizmos |
| 14:40.27 | Pali | and systemui menu |
| 14:40.41 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. if I set a marker bool in dbus msg for screen brightness, it will store screen brightness to the profile, and on restoring that profile will also set the screen brightness to that stored value |
| 14:41.00 | jonwil | systemui stuff is handled through /etc/systemui/systemui.xml |
| 14:41.29 | Pali | jonwil, ok |
| 14:41.36 | jonwil | it contains 2 entries for powerup_mainmenu_silent and powerup_mainmenu_general |
| 14:41.52 | jonwil | so we dont need to clone systemui code, just augment the widget somehow |
| 14:41.55 | jonwil | I mean the XML |
| 14:41.59 | jonwil | to add whatever we want to add |
| 14:42.22 | Pali | sounds good |
| 14:42.23 | jonwil | the XML entries call dbus com.nokia.profiled.set_profile |
| 14:42.59 | DocScrutinizer | we'd need some way to track all changes made since invocation of settings app, and then offer a checkmark box for each such change, when storing a profile |
| 14:43.33 | DocScrutinizer | store value of each checkmarked item to that profile |
| 14:43.59 | Pali | also source code of time/clock daemon would be usefull - change code to use NTP server or ntpd or use time from GSP... |
| 14:44.18 | Pali | I already sent mail to clock daemon devs |
| 14:44.31 | DocScrutinizer | umm, doesn't openntpd do that for you |
| 14:44.33 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 14:44.52 | Pali | but why to have started 10 daemons? |
| 14:45.19 | DocScrutinizer | well, yeah. Not opposed to it, just saying we don't really need timed for that |
| 14:46.34 | DocScrutinizer | tbh openntpd also is sub-optimal for all mobile devices. It's just too busy keeping time up to date |
| 14:46.56 | jonwil | I bet clock stuff is closed because it contains bits to talk to cell tower for clock stuff |
| 14:47.11 | jonwil | so yeah for profiles, we need to replace maemo-applet-profiles (control panel) |
| 14:47.51 | DocScrutinizer | my suggestion been: include ntpd -q to ifup script |
| 14:48.04 | jonwil | and status-menu-applet-profiles (status bar widget) |
| 14:48.26 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: exactly |
| 14:48.37 | DocScrutinizer | (profiles) |
| 14:48.43 | jonwil | wasnt there already a replacement out there for one of those? |
| 14:48.44 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: probably (time) |
| 14:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | well, tweakr does something like that, but doesn't use profiled |
| 14:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | so yeah, there *is* a replacement and I'm using it since ages |
| 14:49.52 | DocScrutinizer | just it's kinda kinky |
| 14:50.11 | jonwil | aha http://maemo.org/packages/view/profilesx/ |
| 14:50.14 | DocScrutinizer | as it rewrites values of standard profile |
| 14:50.16 | jonwil | seems to be what I was thinking of |
| 14:50.32 | jonwil | and also http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/status-menu-applet-profiles |
| 14:50.46 | jonwil | so we have what should be usable baselines for replacements for all the profile stuff |
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| 14:51.11 | jonwil | assuming the MeeGo profiled stuff really does match Fremantle profiled (which is on my todo-when-I-get-some-time list) |
| 14:51.14 | DocScrutinizer | recently I got pissed by that tweakr limited functionality and searched for better alternatives - there are alternatives but I haven't come to evaluate them |
| 14:51.35 | jonwil | currently looking for anyone who talks to profiled via dbus or libprofile0 for interests sake :) |
| 14:51.54 | DocScrutinizer | recently == last Thursday |
| 14:52.27 | Pali | jonwil, you can try to compare symbols in libprofile*.so* in fremantle & harmattan version |
| 14:52.41 | jonwil | thats part of the plan |
| 14:52.44 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: \o/ |
| 14:52.54 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 14:52.59 | jonwil | need to compile the MeeGo tree on my box |
| 14:53.02 | jonwil | and start there |
| 14:53.29 | DocScrutinizer | what meego are we actually talking about? HARM meego or TRUE meego? |
| 14:53.55 | jonwil | in this case we are talking about http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/profiled |
| 14:54.00 | jonwil | at least I am |
| 14:54.12 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't answer my question for me |
| 14:54.23 | jonwil | That code is what MeeGo is using |
| 14:54.32 | jonwil | what Harmattan is using I dont know |
| 14:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | I *guess* that'S true meego |
| 14:54.52 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, not HARM |
| 14:55.01 | jonwil | ok, mediaplayer is using profiled over dbus |
| 14:55.21 | Pali | harmattan is using this: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/profiled/blobs/master/debian/changelog |
| 14:55.22 | DocScrutinizer | WTF is mohammad? |
| 14:55.55 | Pali | so this is harmattan version of profiled |
| 14:56.07 | Pali | profiled (0.30.1-1) harmattan; urgency=low |
| 14:56.11 | DocScrutinizer | I think there's been a note in MWKN, maybe it got a link to that convo back when |
| 14:56.19 | jonwil | well in any case that code seems close enough to Fremantle version to be something I can check |
| 14:56.35 | jonwil | as in its close enough that I can find out if there are differences we care about |
| 14:57.46 | jonwil | ok, only things talking to profiled are libprofile0, libqtsysteminfo, and mediaplayer |
| 14:57.56 | jonwil | plus sytsemui.xml |
| 14:57.58 | jonwil | systemui.xml |
| 14:58.16 | jonwil | users of libprofile are |
| 14:59.04 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.mwkn.net/2011/19/apps.html |
| 14:59.08 | jonwil | waits for search to complete |
| 15:00.29 | jonwil | users of libprofile are |
| 15:00.33 | jonwil | camera-ui |
| 15:00.38 | jonwil | hildon-desktop |
| 15:00.44 | jonwil | hildon-welcome |
| 15:00.50 | jonwil | maemo-xinput-sounds |
| 15:00.53 | jonwil | modest |
| 15:01.00 | jonwil | rtcom-presence-ui |
| 15:01.22 | DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=998070#post998070 |
| 15:02.10 | jonwil | libcpprofiles.so |
| 15:02.20 | jonwil | libhildon-plugins-notify-sv.so |
| 15:02.30 | jonwil | libohm_profile.so |
| 15:02.40 | jonwil | librtcom-presense-ui.so |
| 15:02.45 | jonwil | nsv-decoder-service |
| 15:03.58 | jonwil | profiles_status_menu_item.so |
| 15:04.07 | jonwil | status-area-applet-battery.so |
| 15:04.14 | jonwil | and thats it |
| 15:04.23 | jonwil | in terms of stock filesystem anyway |
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| 15:05.19 | jonwil | so I added 2 things to my todo list |
| 15:05.32 | jonwil | firstly is to see whats different between meego profiled tree and Fremantle profiled |
| 15:05.49 | jonwil | and secondly is to see if the osso-backup code we found is usable to decrypt Fremantle backups |
| 15:08.07 | Pali | jonwil, what I forget to told you: My script found some PRIVATE GPG key in one source tarball on repository.maemo.org |
| 15:08.10 | Pali | http://repository.maemo.org/rtcomm/pool/bora/free/source/b/beta-virtuals_100.1-1.tar.gz |
| 15:08.25 | Pali | it is really funny :D:D |
| 15:08.52 | jonwil | wonders if that key is used for anything impoprtant |
| 15:09.16 | Pali | maybe key for signing APT GPG? |
| 15:10.02 | Pali | but did you ever see any private GPG key in some public package? |
| 15:10.04 | jonwil | no idea, only way to find out would be to see if the public key matches anything |
| 15:10.11 | jonwil | and no, that is clearly a mistake :) |
| 15:10.52 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, any idea? ^^ |
| 15:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | maybe HARM's master key? X-P |
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| 15:14.25 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, you have also harmattan DVD with source code (I do not know where is my :D), is on that DVD anything special? |
| 15:14.37 | Pali | usefull for fremantle? |
| 15:15.20 | jonwil | I bet there is nothing on that DVD that isnt in the harmattan repo |
| 15:15.36 | jonwil | i.e. http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/ |
| 15:15.36 | Pali | jonwil, no |
| 15:15.50 | Pali | source code of last kernel missing in harmattan repo |
| 15:15.59 | jonwil | ok |
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| 15:23.50 | jonwil | someone should look for interesting things in harmattan repo or on this DVD :) |
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| 15:32.21 | jonwil | see, the trick is to know all the places where useful-for-fremantle source may live :) |
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| 15:46.15 | DocScrutinizer | umm, pali's gone? |
| 15:47.14 | jonwil | :) |
| 15:47.20 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil: (where src live) I think we got a wiki page listing all known locations |
| 15:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | anyway no I don't have that DVD, I only got that .iso you find on my server |
| 15:48.15 | jonwil | does said iso contain anything useful? |
| 15:48.29 | DocScrutinizer | sure, kernel sources for HARM |
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| 15:48.36 | jonwil | ok |
| 15:48.38 | DocScrutinizer | I've never looked into it |
| 15:48.54 | jonwil | got a link so I can look for interesting stuff? :P |
| 15:48.59 | DocScrutinizer | I downloaded it from some other place directly to my server |
| 15:49.05 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 15:49.18 | jonwil | ok |
| 15:49.20 | DocScrutinizer | maemo.cloud-7.de |
| 15:50.12 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/SDK_Sources_PR1.1.ISO |
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| 15:52.27 | RST38h | City center looks like a freaking occupied zone |
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| 16:07.13 | jonwil | going to pull all .dsc files from http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/free/ and compare to those in that iso |
| 16:07.19 | jonwil | that will tell what is different |
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| 16:19.18 | guylhem_ | hello |
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| 17:40.37 | shanttu | how to make playlists on pc that works on n900? |
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| 17:48.57 | Sicelo | if you mean stock Media PPlayer, afaik answer is None |
| 17:49.03 | Sicelo | -P |
| 17:49.20 | shanttu | Sicelo, will use Rockbox or Someplayer |
| 17:51.27 | Sicelo | i guess those can use general m3u's |
| 17:51.36 | shanttu | If I got it right creating playlist on pc (using amarok, clementine, banshee etc) and just copy them the path is not correct |
| 17:52.07 | shanttu | wondering if there is an easy way to modify the path |
| 17:52.48 | shanttu | if i open a playlist on gedit is not straight-forward enough (for me atleast) |
| 17:53.16 | Pali | sed |
| 17:53.57 | Pali | or ed |
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| 18:13.46 | merlin1991 | shanttu: for the stockp player you can actually do simple m3u lists |
| 18:15.53 | shanttu | merlin1991, hint, please? |
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| 18:20.34 | merlin1991 | I'll pastebin you a sample |
| 18:23.35 | Sicelo | m3u is plain text ;) |
| 18:23.51 | shanttu | merlin1991, thanks. |
| 18:24.41 | shanttu | Sicelo, i know but couldn't find logic to edit it. newbie |
| 18:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | playlists on N900 are based on tracker "pathes", not on real filesystem directory location |
| 18:26.19 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: tracker imports m3u properly |
| 18:26.26 | DocScrutinizer | ooh it does? |
| 18:26.31 | merlin1991 | if the paths in it relative the m3u file fit |
| 18:26.38 | merlin1991 | *relative to* |
| 18:26.41 | DocScrutinizer | yoh |
| 18:26.46 | DocScrutinizer | quite possible |
| 18:27.10 | merlin1991 | they end up in the stock player under playlists importet lists |
| 18:27.23 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
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| 18:27.52 | DocScrutinizer | so how do you make MP aware of such a list? |
| 18:28.18 | DocScrutinizer | does it offer some *real* filesystem filepicker dialog or what? |
| 18:28.24 | merlin1991 | no |
| 18:28.30 | merlin1991 | if tracker found it it's avaiable in the ui |
| 18:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 18:28.46 | DocScrutinizer | under which name? |
| 18:29.11 | DocScrutinizer | original filename minus the .m3u ending?= |
| 18:29.19 | merlin1991 | just checking |
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| 18:29.48 | DocScrutinizer | or again some BS trackerd invented from looking at content? |
| 18:30.06 | merlin1991 | nope filename minus extension |
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| 18:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 18:32.37 | DocScrutinizer | shanttu: so just make sure your m3u list doesn't have any weird pathnames in front of the filname.mp3, then place the whole playlist into same dir as the mp3 files |
| 18:32.50 | merlin1991 | http://pastebin.com/WRZ7UyLT |
| 18:32.57 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: or will it need ./ header? |
| 18:33.07 | merlin1991 | and actually the files of the list are outside the directory somewhere else |
| 18:33.09 | merlin1991 | and it still works |
| 18:33.18 | DocScrutinizer | OMG |
| 18:33.54 | merlin1991 | my music taste or that it works with non relative paths? :D |
| 18:34.13 | shanttu | merlin1991, much appreciated |
| 18:35.02 | DocScrutinizer | the latter |
| 18:35.21 | DocScrutinizer | that it works with no paths at all |
| 18:35.37 | merlin1991 | sometimes tracker has good moments ;) |
| 18:35.39 | DocScrutinizer | which means you can't have same song twice in different album |
| 18:35.44 | merlin1991 | ofc |
| 18:35.50 | merlin1991 | there always is a downside |
| 18:36.20 | DocScrutinizer | die mafw&mediaplayer, DIE!! |
| 18:36.43 | DocScrutinizer | and tacke tracker with you |
| 18:36.56 | DocScrutinizer | take |
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| 18:39.07 | DocScrutinizer | suggests a `find /*/ -exec 'mv {} $(basename {} ;'` |
| 18:39.58 | DocScrutinizer | what for do we need or want *any* directories at all, when tracker does its best to eliminate all meaning from full pathname/dirnames |
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| 18:40.18 | raandoom | i have script for creating playlist in mafw-playlists folder :) somebody need it? |
| 18:40.30 | DocScrutinizer | feels like back to CPM2.2 |
| 18:40.48 | DocScrutinizer | C/PM? |
| 18:40.52 | DocScrutinizer | CP/M? |
| 18:41.10 | DocScrutinizer | meh, make that DOS1.2 |
| 18:41.37 | DocScrutinizer | at least we can have more than 8.3 X-P |
| 18:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | trackerd, the cool tool they turned into fool tool |
| 18:42.48 | DocScrutinizer | and now for a special gag: HARM is storing *everything* inside trackerdb |
| 18:42.53 | DocScrutinizer | W*T*F?! |
| 18:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | contacts? tracker. SMS? tracker. Mails? tracker. WHAT THE FUCK??! |
| 18:44.26 | merlin1991 | and the mafw framework isn't open anymore :/ |
| 18:44.31 | DocScrutinizer | prbably we should replace ext3 rootfs by a generic trackerdb partition, for HARM |
| 18:45.21 | DocScrutinizer | honestly when we store mails and contacts in trackerdb, then why not store /etc/* there as well? |
| 18:45.35 | merlin1991 | well we need *some* persitance ;) |
| 18:46.38 | DocScrutinizer | maybe replace kernel by trackerd, which in turn loads vmlinuz from its trackerdb into RAM |
| 18:47.29 | DocScrutinizer | MEH, my blood pressure suffers from deregulation |
| 18:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | feel the strange urge to hurt somebody severely |
| 18:48.21 | DocScrutinizer | but that's wrong channel for this sort of rant |
| 18:49.14 | DocScrutinizer | not that we hadn't enough of rant about tracker being spawn from hell in this very channel, so Nokia could've learnt for HARM |
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| 18:49.36 | DocScrutinizer | but NOOOOOO way |
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| 18:51.03 | DocScrutinizer | same stubborn clinging to obsolete proven fubar design principles like with platsec |
| 18:52.13 | DocScrutinizer | goes watching a splatter movie to chill out |
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| 19:17.47 | Pali | ping freemangordon |
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| 19:42.09 | shanttu | merlin1991, DocScrutinizer creating playlists is simple now. thanks again |
| 19:42.59 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 19:43.29 | DocScrutinizer | actually your question made me learn sth, that's the kind of questions we love to chew on |
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| 19:53.43 | Pali | freemangordon, see my post in thread about n900 720p videos |
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| 23:14.37 | pa | hello |
| 23:15.11 | pa | question: anyone who used/using syncevolution for gmail address books? |
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| 23:35.02 | Neutron_ | I once installed some experimental android on my N900 which installed some boot loader.. last time I reflashed it did not get rid of it |
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| 23:35.20 | Neutron_ | if I flash the rootfs image, it is supposed to get rid of it, right? |
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| 23:46.04 | DocScrutinizer | right |
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| 23:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | ~multiboot |
| 23:46.18 | infobot | multiboot is, like, http://maemo.org/packages/view/multiboot/ |
| 23:46.33 | DocScrutinizer | wtf? |
| 23:46.40 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo multiboot |
| 23:46.40 | infobot | multiboot -- last modified at Thu Feb 2 21:42:35 2012 by Estel_!~Estel@d35-11.icpnet.pl; it has been requested 12 times, last by Estel_ at Thu Feb 2 14:42:40 2012. |
| 23:47.28 | DocScrutinizer | ~maemo-multiboot |
| 23:47.28 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED |
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| 23:50.20 | Neutron_ | yep but I might as well reflash everything since my device is completely messed and drains the battery flat in no time |
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| 23:57.20 | Neutron_ | oh and one more thing, I see warning about using 64bit windows for flashing.. is that a "in 1 of 1000 cases it will not work" or actually a no go? |