| 00:01.11 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.138) |
| 00:13.25 | UberNeo | SpeedEvil: I have got the output file for dbus-monitor ... shall i just look for text "method call sender" |
| 00:16.05 | UberNeo | also strace of /usr/bin/Calendar is failing after the Segmentation Fault |
| 00:18.37 | SpeedEvil | Not sure |
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| 00:43.14 | UberNeo | i just did "lsof -i" and the output is http://pastebin.com/n7bxv0mH .. here whenever I am killing 'mafw-dbus' .. its automatcally getting started again.. |
| 00:44.19 | UberNeo | same with 'camera-ui' , 'app-detec' and dnsmasq .. all of them are getting restarted again .. even after i killed them |
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| 00:47.04 | merlin1991 | UberNeo: afaik all those applications are stated with dsmetool |
| 00:47.14 | merlin1991 | look at it's command line options to stop the restarting |
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| 00:48.38 | UberNeo | http://pastebin.com/TksD49jm -- ps -ef | grep mafw-dbus |
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| 01:22.59 | jonwil | For the curious, I just posted an analysis of the PR1.3.1 update and its changes at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79400&page=12 |
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| 01:37.55 | Macer | my n900 made it to cali |
| 01:37.57 | Macer | that was faster than expected |
| 01:38.25 | SpeedEvil | Cali? |
| 01:38.38 | SpeedEvil | wishes again he could get broken n900s. |
| 01:38.39 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
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| 02:25.49 | Juozapas | -sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/tasks: nonexistent directory |
| 02:25.52 | Juozapas | -sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/notify_on_release: nonexistent directory |
| 02:26.02 | Juozapas | did anyone receive this error ? just when u open terminal |
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| 04:15.18 | Sicelo | ~joergtools |
| 04:15.33 | Sicelo | ~jrtools |
| 04:15.33 | infobot | methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
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| 04:20.46 | Sicelo | meh, didn't get update because i didn't have mp-fremantle-generic-pr |
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| 05:33.22 | Macer | lol |
| 05:33.33 | Macer | i was watching the e7 commercial on amazon |
| 05:33.44 | Macer | and they showed the ovi store for a minute. and scrolled down a bit |
| 05:33.55 | Macer | and i just thought to myself... "that's probably all it has" :) |
| 05:35.12 | LaoLang_cool_ | newbie question... How to turn the phone off in N900? |
| 05:35.34 | psycho_oreos | press and hold the power button on top of the device? |
| 05:35.37 | psycho_oreos | err |
| 05:36.01 | psycho_oreos | that question is rather ambiguous, do you mean you want it to function as a pure tablet? |
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| 05:36.22 | LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: sorry for my english ;p I mean the phone function, not the n900 itself |
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| 05:37.08 | psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, press the power button once and it'll bring down a menu. Press tablet mode, that will switch off phone functionality |
| 05:37.28 | color`coded | oreos |
| 05:37.30 | color`coded | :o |
| 05:37.34 | color`coded | yummy |
| 05:38.29 | LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: oh, it's called offline mode here :) thank you! |
| 05:38.40 | psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, no worries |
| 05:39.20 | psycho_oreos | weird how its called offline mode, it sounds almost like a symbian device or a maemo clone (with symbian instead of maemo) |
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| 05:42.16 | Macer | haha... "tablet mode" :) |
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| 05:42.18 | Macer | really? |
| 05:42.41 | psycho_oreos | what's so funny about that? |
| 05:42.41 | Macer | did you see the e7 commercial? the desktop looks maemoish |
| 05:42.59 | Macer | i don't know. i just think the n900 is rather small to be considered a tablet |
| 05:43.01 | psycho_oreos | on about E7 again.. gotta love symbian trolls |
| 05:43.19 | Macer | i'm not.. just thought it was a nice phone.. but the desktop does look like maemo |
| 05:43.31 | psycho_oreos | and the 770, N800, N810 are all too small to be `tablets' too? |
| 05:43.33 | Macer | at least it reminded me of maemo... my n900 made it to california :) |
| 05:43.54 | Macer | well.. they were larger .. even tho the res was the same |
| 05:44.12 | psycho_oreos | larger by what? 1 whole inch? |
| 05:44.21 | Macer | 1" is a huge difference |
| 05:44.41 | psycho_oreos | to you it is |
| 05:45.07 | Macer | tell that to a woman :) |
| 05:45.07 | slonopotamus | gentlemen, discuss your sizes in private :) |
| 05:45.16 | Macer | slonopotamus: hahaha |
| 05:45.35 | Macer | psycho_oreos: size... really does matter :) |
| 05:45.44 | psycho_oreos | for someone who hasn't been following the conversation, you just made yourself look more like a tool |
| 05:46.02 | Macer | slonopotamus: did you notice the symbian home screen looks kind of like amamo? |
| 05:46.04 | psycho_oreos | Macer, no, not when maemo has been largely considered as a tablet since its birth |
| 05:46.07 | Macer | maybe it is the other way around |
| 05:46.24 | ShadowJK | Come on, sizes and tools elsewhere ;P |
| 05:46.43 | Macer | a newton was a tablet as well.. but calling an n900 "with a phone built in" was kind of lame |
| 05:46.55 | slonopotamus | Macer: no, i didn't look at symbian. |
| 05:47.32 | Macer | slonopotamus: it looks rather nice.. but i haven't bought one yet.. i am going to today or tomorrow tho... if it sucks i will use it as my everyday crap phone and put the n900 in a velvet case :) |
| 05:47.33 | psycho_oreos | yet N900 doesn't even have complete proper functionalities that you would normally find in a normal smartphone.. irony? |
| 05:47.48 | Macer | er... ok? |
| 05:47.55 | Macer | i think it worked fine a s a phone |
| 05:48.04 | Macer | it did voice and txts. what more do you want? :) |
| 05:48.14 | ShadowJK | doesn't really need voice and text |
| 05:48.16 | LaoLang_cool_ | it's ok |
| 05:48.21 | Macer | try to do that with meego! |
| 05:48.21 | slonopotamus | personally doesn't care about *names*. i do care about functionality though. |
| 05:48.25 | Macer | hides |
| 05:48.43 | psycho_oreos | it doesn't do MMS, it doesn't have portrait by default, and I'm sure there's hordes of other missing functionalities that a smartphone normally features. |
| 05:49.00 | Macer | oh.. you had "smart" in there |
| 05:49.01 | LaoLang_cool_ | it can with fmms |
| 05:49.05 | Macer | i thought you jut meant "phone" |
| 05:49.06 | Macer | heh |
| 05:49.11 | ShadowJK | Also doesn't do "Mobile TV", "Video Call", "Picture Sharing", "PTT", and a bunch of other stuff |
| 05:49.21 | psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool_, that's not included by default, neither was in integrated into conversations |
| 05:49.36 | psycho_oreos | s/in/it/ |
| 05:49.51 | LaoLang_cool_ | psycho_oreos: that's true, I'm experiencing with n900 for just half an hour ;p |
| 05:49.58 | Macer | i ams ure it would have been had nokia not dropped the nokia ball |
| 05:50.10 | Macer | er.. maemo ball |
| 05:50.24 | ShadowJK | would've thought mms would fit better into email app |
| 05:50.34 | psycho_oreos | care to elaborate on that note? |
| 05:50.42 | Macer | ShadowJK: that would be nice |
| 05:50.43 | psycho_oreos | points to Macer |
| 05:50.56 | Macer | i always wish google would integrate google voice into google talk |
| 05:51.03 | SpeedEvil | mms is clearly 'deliver to console' SMTP |
| 05:51.08 | Macer | and if someone was unavailable it would txt |
| 05:51.15 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, and a dose of NIH |
| 05:51.22 | Macer | but beggars can't be choosers :) |
| 05:51.23 | ShadowJK | but such are all 3gpp things |
| 05:51.43 | Macer | psycho_oreos: sure.. they dropped maemo.. i thought that was a pretty obvious statement |
| 05:52.00 | Macer | then turned around.. and dropped meego :) |
| 05:52.07 | Macer | and symbian |
| 05:52.11 | psycho_oreos | Macer, like as if that was ever news |
| 05:52.24 | psycho_oreos | so how does that maketh maemo in the first place? |
| 05:52.25 | Macer | uhm.. well.. you asked |
| 05:52.42 | ShadowJK | though MMS was never on their list of (planned) maemo features anyways :P |
| 05:53.03 | Macer | ShadowJK: meh. they'd have put it in had it become a default nokia OS i'm sure |
| 05:53.26 | Macer | but they were running around with their heads chopped off watching their stock price go into the gutter while apple and htc were skyrocketing |
| 05:53.51 | ShadowJK | they didn't and still don't have a concept of default os :P |
| 05:54.10 | Macer | sure theyd o.. windows mobile |
| 05:54.14 | Macer | :) |
| 05:54.18 | ShadowJK | no |
| 05:54.36 | Macer | they had plenty of concepts.. just no follow through |
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| 05:54.40 | ShadowJK | S40, if anything, is the default |
| 05:54.51 | Macer | not S60? |
| 05:55.13 | ShadowJK | S60 was renamed symbian, and is getting phased out and replaced by windows |
| 05:55.31 | Macer | either way... all i said was that the home screen on the e7 ooks rther similar to a maemo home screen |
| 05:55.34 | Macer | i jut thought it odd |
| 05:55.41 | Macer | argh.. damn transformer keyboard |
| 05:56.02 | Macer | but... the e7 does look pretty nice even if it is obsolete |
| 05:56.24 | Macer | symbian had a bit of potential left... then again tho.. all nokia mobile operating systems did... they just didn't want to stick with them |
| 05:58.02 | ShadowJK | THe only potential in symbian was that they might port QT to it, which would give a sane programming environment, but then, might just as well have used maemo underneath instead |
| 05:58.05 | ShadowJK | maemo/meego |
| 05:58.20 | Macer | fair point |
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| 06:01.42 | Macer | blah. let me just buy an e7 off amazon right now. it looks like a pretty fair phone |
| 06:02.22 | Macer | even though i know i will be shooting myself in the foot expecting anything new to come out for it... it will make for a good secondary phone when my usb port breaks on my new n900 :) |
| 06:03.17 | ShadowJK | The only nice thing about it is that is has a keyboard :P |
| 06:04.12 | Macer | heh |
| 06:04.31 | Macer | so does my g2... but it is a total piece of absolute crap |
| 06:04.40 | psycho_oreos | more like the design inspired the N950 to look almost identical to E7 |
| 06:04.58 | Macer | psycho_oreos: i would give anything in the world to put maemo on an e7 :) |
| 06:05.02 | Macer | or meego |
| 06:05.10 | Macer | that woudl be absolutely awesome.. but never going to happen |
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| 06:05.25 | ShadowJK | Doesn't meet the minimum CPU requirements for meego, for one |
| 06:05.41 | Macer | isn't it like a 600MHz arm? |
| 06:05.43 | psycho_oreos | I'd rather get N950 instead and be happy |
| 06:05.45 | dm8tbr | it doesn't? what does it run? |
| 06:05.57 | psycho_oreos | arm11 cpu |
| 06:05.59 | Macer | geez.. these mobile operating systems are just being selfish nowadays |
| 06:06.03 | Macer | :) |
| 06:06.04 | dm8tbr | orly? |
| 06:06.06 | psycho_oreos | it runs symbian by default |
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| 06:42.25 | Juozapas | -sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/tasks: nonexistent directory |
| 06:42.28 | Juozapas | -sh: /home/user/.bashrc: line 5: cannot create /dev/cgroup/cpu/user/2526/notify_on_release: nonexistent directory |
| 06:42.31 | Juozapas | did anyone receive this error ? just when u open terminal |
| 06:45.36 | inz | Juozapas, did you copy your .bashrc from desktop machine? |
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| 06:47.14 | Juozapas | nope |
| 06:48.46 | Juozapas | actually i saw this error only once, just after healthcheck install. I open terminal for something, then i saw it and tried reboot. After reboot everything looks ok but anyway I'm curious what was/is wrong |
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| 07:25.45 | LaoLang_cool | hmm, swipe is not smooth enough in n900 |
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| 07:52.28 | RST38h | ehlo |
| 07:54.20 | mece | RST38h, o/ |
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| 08:15.32 | jargon- | is anyone else having issues this morning with connecting to their yahoo messenger account with Conversation? i've tried removing the removing the server entry as suggested on the maemo forum,but when i click save and come back to it, the server entry is back |
| 08:18.24 | Sicelo | just connected fine |
| 08:19.20 | Sicelo | u have 5050 as your port, right? |
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| 08:31.05 | jargon- | Sicelo: yes 5050 |
| 08:33.15 | Sicelo | must be your operator then. mine also does strange stuff at times, eg unable to refresh feeds via gprs, complaining of parsing errors, while same feeds refresh without problems via wlan |
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| 09:13.30 | rly | What is the browserd program? It takes up 93% CPU on the phone continuously. |
| 09:13.58 | Sicelo | heh, just noticed on 3G i can update the feeds, but not 2G, meh |
| 09:15.49 | Sicelo | afaik browserd is the browser/web engine. you can kill it as user (not root). of course, it will re-spawn |
| 09:17.01 | rly | Sicelo: and why does it take that much CPU? |
| 09:17.04 | rly | Sicelo: bug? |
| 09:19.14 | rly | The first Google hit is basically "Dude! Search for the answer..." |
| 09:23.41 | jacekowski | rly: it's a web browser |
| 09:24.02 | jacekowski | try killing it |
| 09:24.05 | jacekowski | it may help |
| 09:24.18 | jacekowski | unless you have browser currently open |
| 09:24.25 | jacekowski | with some flash stuff in it and whatnot |
| 09:24.59 | rly | jacekowski: yes, the problem had already been solved. |
| 09:25.20 | rly | jacekowski: I was just complaining about spam topics on talk.maemo.org. |
| 09:25.35 | rly | And more specifically Google's inability to parse those. |
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| 09:31.38 | jargon- | neither 3g nor wlan let's Conversations sign on to yahoo,but skype & google talk work fine |
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| 09:46.51 | jargon- | are the pidgin protocols for Conversations still being maintained? no update in over a year... |
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| 10:10.11 | rly | What is the 'network manager' mentioned on http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications? |
| 10:15.49 | Sicelo | the status menu button where u choose which connection to use |
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| 10:34.22 | rly | LANG=C ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 |
| 10:34.24 | rly | SIOCSIFADDR: No such device |
| 10:34.26 | rly | usb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device |
| 10:34.49 | rly | Do I need to do something special to obtain an usb0 device? |
| 10:34.59 | rly | I have enough usb ports. |
| 10:35.41 | *** join/#maemo kW (~kW@port-92-206-117-158.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:35.56 | ZogG | rly where are you trying to do it? |
| 10:36.00 | ZogG | on computer? |
| 10:36.15 | rly | ZogG: not on the phone, on the computer. |
| 10:36.16 | ZogG | you need to run it on nokia |
| 10:36.27 | ZogG | try to run it on phone |
| 10:36.31 | rly | For a typical Linux computer, one might use the command "ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14" (add "sudo" to the beginning of that command if necessary). |
| 10:36.39 | rly | Then why do the instructions say the wrong thing? |
| 10:36.47 | ZogG | rly does it? |
| 10:36.52 | rly | Yes |
| 10:37.03 | ZogG | lemme see |
| 10:37.09 | *** join/#maemo kW (~kW@unaffiliated/kw) |
| 10:37.12 | rly | This context says 'a typical Linux computer', which clearly isn't talking about the phone. |
| 10:37.41 | rly | It's also talking about the 'host', which also isn't the phone. |
| 10:37.52 | *** join/#maemo willer (~willer@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:39.03 | ZogG | rly, cat /boot/config |grep -i USB_eth |
| 10:39.22 | ZogG | what linux do you use? |
| 10:39.26 | rly | ZogG: Debian |
| 10:39.37 | ZogG | rly ^ |
| 10:39.41 | Sicelo | wait |
| 10:39.42 | ZogG | cat /boot/config |grep -i USB_eth |
| 10:39.58 | rly | ZogG: that command says 'file or directory does not exists'. |
| 10:40.11 | ZogG | rly sudo mount /boot |
| 10:40.30 | rly | ZogG: it's just that the symbolic link does not exist. |
| 10:40.40 | Sicelo | just a moment ZogG, rly |
| 10:40.40 | rly | ZogG: but I have no USB_eth there. |
| 10:40.53 | Sicelo | rly: did u choose PC suite mode? |
| 10:41.04 | rly | Sicelo: that's the next step. |
| 10:41.05 | ZogG | Sicelo i think it doesn't matter |
| 10:41.13 | rly | Sicelo: I didn't complete this step yet. |
| 10:41.25 | ZogG | Sicelo he might not have module/driver to use usb for network |
| 10:41.38 | Sicelo | ZogG: it matters |
| 10:41.54 | ZogG | Sicelo, what distro do you use? |
| 10:41.58 | rly | I am running 2.6.32 |
| 10:42.08 | psycho_oreos | isn't that something like cdc_phonet? |
| 10:42.13 | Sicelo | rly: that's not second step. iface won't be there if u haven't selected pc suite mode |
| 10:42.16 | psycho_oreos | well most of the cdc related modules |
| 10:42.25 | Sicelo | ZogG: debian 6 |
| 10:42.46 | psycho_oreos | cdc_ether as well |
| 10:43.01 | jonwil | ok, time to figure out which of the things on my "stuff I wanna investigate" list to do next |
| 10:43.11 | Sicelo | rly.. u should follow the wiki step by step.. first pc suite mode, then ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 on pc, then ifup usb0 on N900 |
| 10:43.25 | rly | Sicelo: where does the wiki say first pc suite mode? |
| 10:43.54 | rly | Sicelo: by that I mean, that it doesn't say that. |
| 10:44.03 | Sicelo | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Starting_USB_network_mode |
| 10:44.28 | psycho_oreos | jonwil, any plans to release that bit of info on cell tower broadcast messages? I'm curious to give it a stab if its not too complicated :D |
| 10:44.35 | psycho_oreos | err code rather |
| 10:44.44 | ZogG | rly he is right |
| 10:44.48 | rly | Sicelo: It says: 'first setup the host' |
| 10:45.08 | rly | ZogG: please explain that then. |
| 10:45.23 | rly | ZogG: because the Wiki surely says something different from my reading. |
| 10:45.27 | Sicelo | well, do it the way i said then |
| 10:45.30 | *** join/#maemo archl (~chatzilla@110-174-150-114.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:45.41 | Sicelo | first pc suite mode, then ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 on pc, then ifup usb0 on N900 |
| 10:46.01 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.138) |
| 10:46.04 | ZogG | rly it doesn't it explaines in the begging what it should do and than all steps |
| 10:47.39 | jonwil | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-October/028685.html has all the Cell Broadcast SMS stuff that I have done so far |
| 10:47.48 | ZogG | as well i bet if Sicelo has debian and he says what to do, he did it himself and know better |
| 10:47.49 | jonwil | well not quite, I am still making tweaks to the algorithim |
| 10:48.03 | psycho_oreos | cool thanks, going to have a look :D |
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| 10:48.41 | ZogG | jonwil what is for? |
| 10:48.43 | jonwil | works pretty good on my phone so far :) |
| 10:48.50 | jonwil | its for Cell Broadcast SMS |
| 10:49.32 | Sicelo | \0/ jonwil |
| 10:49.47 | psycho_oreos | to me its something like it'll change your operator name (from your device) to the suburb of your nearest cell tower |
| 10:49.51 | ZogG | jonwil don't know what it is |
| 10:49.53 | psycho_oreos | err the name rather |
| 10:50.05 | jonwil | thats what it is |
| 10:50.25 | jonwil | it grabs any cell broadcast tower name/id messages sent by the tower |
| 10:50.27 | jonwil | and displays them |
| 10:51.01 | psycho_oreos | ZogG, I know for my old N95-1 you can turn that feature on, so you can get the name of your provider along the actual name of the cell ID rather than just numbers or in this case with maemo nothing actually appears |
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| 10:51.36 | ZogG | no clue what are you talking about |
| 10:51.48 | ZogG | you mean when you get sms from your operator or any sms? |
| 10:51.56 | ZogG | and what and where it should show? |
| 10:53.22 | jonwil | what happens is that some operators send out a tower name or ID |
| 10:53.33 | jonwil | which is what gets displayed by my code |
| 10:54.28 | rly | Why do I lose my wifi connection when I connect via USB? |
| 10:54.32 | psycho_oreos | I'm looking for screenshots as my current N95-1 does not have a proper sim card so it cannot be registered but you get something like this on the top part of the screen: The signal level from provider, the connection type (2G,3G,3.5G), The name of the operator in all capitals followed by the name of the nearest connected cell tower's name (usually its the name of the suburb) along with the battery level |
| 10:54.47 | rly | I want that they all work at the same time. |
| 10:55.00 | jonwil | You loose wifi because you can only have one network connection at once |
| 10:55.02 | Sicelo | rly: N900 can have only one connection at a time, afaik. |
| 10:55.16 | jonwil | so WiFi or USB or 3G or whatever |
| 10:55.25 | rly | How inconvenient. |
| 10:55.31 | rly | Any other phone which does multiple? |
| 10:55.46 | Sicelo | Nokia 9300i :P |
| 10:56.12 | psycho_oreos | icd rewrites the default gw each time you change the connection type. In theory you can be connected to more than one gateways but with an ugly hack and with default gw pointing to either one |
| 10:56.52 | jonwil | well I have some ICD related things on my todo |
| 10:57.07 | rly | psycho_oreos: icd? |
| 10:57.27 | jonwil | icd is what handles your network connection |
| 10:57.42 | psycho_oreos | rly, internet connection daemon, part of maemo |
| 10:57.53 | psycho_oreos | ZogG, "Some mobile operators use Cell Broadcast for communicating the area code of the antenna cell to the mobile user (via channel 050), for nationwide or citywide alerting, weather reports, mass messaging, location based news, etc. Not all operators have the Cell Broadcast messaging function activated in their network yet, and many handsets do not have the capability to support cell broadcast." - quote from wikipedia |
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| 11:00.33 | psycho_oreos | If that doesn't really help you then I'm afraid you have loads of reading to do ahead of you :p. Its a really nifty stuff if you're familiar with networking along with wireless networking, in fact the same set of knowledge goes on top of wireless networking really. |
| 11:01.34 | rly | I can ping yahoo.com, and I get an ip address, but nothing comes back. |
| 11:02.32 | Sicelo | rly ... u need that script from yesterday again :P |
| 11:02.49 | jonwil | Not sure what I should work on next |
| 11:03.04 | Sicelo | N900 is on a different subnet. 192.168.2... |
| 11:04.02 | psycho_oreos | thinks the stuff in tmo bugjars might be worth revisiting jonwil ;) if you're keen |
| 11:04.21 | jonwil | which stuff specifically? |
| 11:04.42 | jonwil | point me at actual n900 system software bugs in closed source software worth looking at |
| 11:04.53 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 11:05.14 | psycho_oreos | well that depends on your interest lol, umm |
| 11:05.19 | rly | Sicelo: I also have two default routes. |
| 11:05.25 | rly | Sicelo: that also seems wrong. |
| 11:05.35 | rly | I just don't get how people make this stuff so complicated. |
| 11:05.55 | Sicelo | these routes are on N900? |
| 11:05.57 | rly | There is no need for all this complexity. |
| 11:05.58 | jonwil | hmmm, I could work on icd or browser bits or connectivity widgets or the lockscreen stuff |
| 11:05.59 | rly | Sicelo: yes |
| 11:06.08 | rly | default 192.168.2.111 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0 |
| 11:06.10 | rly | default 10.42.43.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 wlan0 |
| 11:06.45 | Sicelo | what is 192.168.2.111? |
| 11:06.55 | psycho_oreos | looks like two default gateway define there, not a good idea |
| 11:07.08 | psycho_oreos | s/define/defined/ |
| 11:07.54 | psycho_oreos | hmm where was that bugjar page. I swear I saw it somewhere.. might just be a thread |
| 11:07.55 | Sicelo | rly... usb0 on pc side should be 192.168.2.14. that's how N900 wants it |
| 11:08.28 | *** join/#maemo marainein (~marainein@114-198-89-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:11.45 | rly | Sicelo: I have that. |
| 11:12.23 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 11:12.40 | psycho_oreos | jonwil, hmm my bad, it seems like its only for extras, so these are per program specifics rather than what I thought it would have been the specific closed bits and pieces which requires attention: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37106 |
| 11:13.11 | psycho_oreos | according to that dumped route output, it doesn't appear to be |
| 11:13.34 | psycho_oreos | and two default gateway flags defined (hint `UG') is not a good idea |
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| 11:14.24 | rly | psycho_oreos: now I have one route. |
| 11:14.35 | Sicelo | let's see it |
| 11:14.38 | rly | default 192.168.2.111 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 usb0 |
| 11:14.44 | rly | 192.168.2.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 usb0 |
| 11:14.54 | rly | I switched the order of the lines. |
| 11:15.09 | psycho_oreos | the default gateway is still pointing to 192.168.2.111 as opposed to what Sicelo previously mentioned 192.168.2.14 |
| 11:15.24 | rly | But I configured it to be 192.168.2.111. |
| 11:15.49 | Sicelo | :/ |
| 11:15.52 | rly | I used 192.168.2.111 where the instructions said 192.168.2.14 |
| 11:15.57 | psycho_oreos | then iptables, etc needs to be adjusted accordingly |
| 11:16.12 | rly | Is 192.168.2.14 a magic number? |
| 11:16.20 | rly | I'd hope not. |
| 11:16.58 | psycho_oreos | no, its just the way things should work. If it works (for starters) you can then later on change it to whatever you want instead of changing to whatever you want initially and not caring about what wiki states |
| 11:18.06 | psycho_oreos | i.e. you don't go changing things if you're not completely aware of what needs to be changed. Nobody will mock/laugh at you even if you used the default config from the wiki page, but if you decide to go about your own way without even testing what is mentioned on the wiki, it over complicates things |
| 11:18.08 | *** join/#maemo RST38h (~nobody@192.55.54.38) |
| 11:18.10 | rly | Ok, how do I bring down the usb0 interface? |
| 11:18.19 | rly | ifdown usb0 doesn't work. |
| 11:18.22 | psycho_oreos | ifconfig usb0 down? |
| 11:18.38 | rly | That does work. |
| 11:18.43 | psycho_oreos | ifdown would require those network scripts |
| 11:20.45 | Sicelo | psycho_oreos: well put \0/ |
| 11:21.20 | psycho_oreos | heh ta |
| 11:22.54 | psycho_oreos | also its not really a `magic' number as per se. I have three N900 here, two of my N900 have been properly configured for USB networking. The first N900 uses the wiki stated configs, and the second one uses a slightly different setup (different subnet, different IP address and therefore different gateway). |
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| 11:28.12 | rly | psycho_oreos: ok, I can ssh via usb to the phone, but I cannot ping google.com |
| 11:28.34 | Sicelo | your /etc/resolv.conf |
| 11:28.44 | Sicelo | :/ no |
| 11:28.46 | psycho_oreos | ^ |
| 11:29.05 | psycho_oreos | better yet add google DNS entries |
| 11:29.47 | rly | psycho_oreos: I did that. |
| 11:29.48 | *** join/#maemo kov (~kov@debian/developer/kov) |
| 11:29.59 | Sicelo | i think you will need also iptables to do NAT between usb0 on your laptop and it's external interface |
| 11:30.06 | Sicelo | that's how i used to do it |
| 11:30.13 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 11:31.08 | psycho_oreos | also make sure you have enabled ip_forwarding in the unix proc |
| 11:31.35 | Sicelo | yesterday's script rly ;) |
| 11:31.46 | rly | Sicelo: this is not on my laptop. |
| 11:32.00 | rly | It also appears that I lost name lookups on this machine now?! |
| 11:32.13 | Sicelo | it doesn't matter. what ever other machine u are using, lol |
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| 11:34.14 | rly | If I break the N900 connection, my machine can visit websites again. |
| 11:35.00 | psycho_oreos | improperly configured routing/firewall can cause that |
| 11:36.08 | rly | I now enabled the forwarding. |
| 11:36.11 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) |
| 11:36.27 | rly | I don't even have a firewall, AFAIK. |
| 11:37.10 | psycho_oreos | *facepalms*, that is what you're supposed to do pretty much at the beginning, as per noted from wiki... also linux always has firewall by default, its just doesn't come configured and its called iptables |
| 11:37.26 | psycho_oreos | s/configured/preconfigured/ |
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| 11:38.26 | rly | psycho_oreos: where does it say that on the wiki? |
| 11:38.35 | rly | psycho_oreos: I mean an actual quote. |
| 11:40.34 | rly | It isn't mentioned here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 11:40.45 | *** join/#maemo net-split (~netsplit@krlh-d9be7c25.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:40.55 | psycho_oreos | rly, its mentioned under host configuration sections |
| 11:40.57 | Sicelo | rly.... it is mentioned, |
| 11:41.28 | Sicelo | and i have countlesss time pointed u to a script that automatically does it for you.. |
| 11:41.40 | Sicelo | all u supply is the two interfaces involved |
| 11:44.12 | rly | Did anything change between Lenny and Squeeze for configuring this stuff? |
| 11:44.47 | Sicelo | nothing |
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| 11:45.25 | Sicelo | i used this cript on knoppix (based on lenny) & now on squeeze |
| 11:49.46 | LaoLang_cool | How to open multi xterm on N900? |
| 11:49.52 | rly | Sicelo: the script from the wiki? |
| 11:50.00 | rly | Sicelo: or the one you mentioned yesterday? |
| 11:50.14 | rly | Again, I lose Internet after executing all those commands. |
| 11:50.27 | rly | Or rather, I lose DNS queries. |
| 11:50.36 | rly | And pings. |
| 11:50.55 | rly | The only reason IRC remains working is probably because there already is a connection. |
| 11:51.19 | Sicelo | the one i mentioned. btw, what machine/os is that that keeps losing dns... and how is it connected to internet? |
| 11:52.27 | rly | Can I paste 6 lines here? |
| 11:52.37 | rly | The Web doesn't actually work now. |
| 11:53.10 | rly | Or go to #mypastes |
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| 12:19.55 | jonwil | hmmm, maybe I might try and clone the wifi/network status widget |
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| 12:21.14 | jonwil | Cant get much further with the cbsms stuff since I dont know enough about gconf and hildon-control-panel |
| 12:21.33 | *** join/#maemo hakkattakk (~hakkattak@c-387ce655.02-175-74686e1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 12:21.46 | jonwil | oh snap, that value is in miliseconds not seconds |
| 12:21.51 | jonwil | so I gotta do yet another respin |
| 12:22.39 | Macer | wth is amazon prime? |
| 12:24.40 | SpeedEvil | It's free shipping in exchange for a subscription. |
| 12:25.27 | Macer | free 2 day shipping ;) |
| 12:25.51 | Macer | the shipping might actually be worth the $79/year |
| 12:26.14 | Macer | but then again i don't usually order more than a couple things a year from amazon so maybe not :) |
| 12:26.49 | SpeedEvil | I got a free trial of it, which was handy, as I got afree shipping on a couple of items. |
| 12:26.54 | SpeedEvil | Don't forget to cancel. |
| 12:27.02 | Macer | haha |
| 12:27.09 | Macer | i'm sure it won't stay at 79/year for long |
| 12:27.22 | Macer | nor will it continue to have a free tiral because of people like you :) |
| 12:27.23 | Macer | hahaha |
| 12:27.26 | *** join/#maemo maybeWTF (~cl@p5B167699.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:27.30 | SpeedEvil | Sure it will. |
| 12:27.36 | SpeedEvil | People like me are factored in. |
| 12:27.43 | SpeedEvil | And people like me that forget to cancel it. |
| 12:27.50 | Macer | you think? |
| 12:27.58 | Macer | that is a huge chunk to lose on shipping costs |
| 12:28.02 | SpeedEvil | It's been around that price for some time. |
| 12:28.13 | SpeedEvil | Amazon tends to pay really quite small amounts on shipping. |
| 12:28.48 | Macer | then why do they charge $10 for 2day shipping on an e7? |
| 12:29.02 | Macer | weight vs price seems off when dealing with shipping pricing |
| 12:29.23 | Macer | it is just whatever someone decides to charge you for putting it in a box it seems |
| 12:29.28 | SpeedEvil | Amazon shipping is complex. |
| 12:29.45 | SpeedEvil | As a retailer, amazon takes their cut of the shipping fee. |
| 12:29.54 | SpeedEvil | Even if they don't touch the product. |
| 12:30.12 | Macer | that seems rotten |
| 12:30.19 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
| 12:30.32 | Macer | my n900 left california |
| 12:30.36 | DocScrutinizer | moos violently |
| 12:30.37 | Macer | en route to chicago from hk :) |
| 12:31.09 | Macer | only took about a week to get to california .. i'm kind of impressed |
| 12:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | wishes Nokia had provided him with a tracking number |
| 12:31.44 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:31.53 | Macer | makes me wonder why it took me 2 months to get a package in iraq via usps.. but a pkg from ebay shipped from hk takes 2 weeks |
| 12:32.05 | psycho_oreos | tracking number for which? replacement N950? |
| 12:32.33 | Macer | you had to replace an n950? rather new isn't it? |
| 12:32.46 | *** join/#maemo RST38h_ (~nobody@nat/intel/x-gdwjthlmjclroyai) |
| 12:32.55 | Macer | can't say i'm surprised after sending in my brand new transformer to be repaired for a screen with bad pixels |
| 12:34.28 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 12:36.22 | jonwil | hmmm, what to work on next. http://pastebin.com/5gCdnJwT is the list of things I am thinking about working on, anyone want to suggest specific ideas from that list I should do? |
| 12:38.05 | SpeedEvil | is the wireless cal stuff interesting if you can jsut flash the gloal image? |
| 12:38.20 | SpeedEvil | Also - what tutorial applet? |
| 12:38.51 | jonwil | the "getting started" applet, the one that runs that swf file |
| 12:39.07 | jonwil | its basically a browser window with a swf file in it |
| 12:39.16 | jonwil | but it would be a great example of how to embed a browser window |
| 12:39.56 | SpeedEvil | Ah! |
| 12:40.01 | rly | Kernel IP routing table |
| 12:40.04 | rly | Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface |
| 12:40.06 | rly | 192.168.2.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 n900 |
| 12:40.08 | rly | 192.168.2.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 1 0 0 eth0 |
| 12:40.09 | jonwil | as for the wl1251-cal stuff, going to remove it from the list |
| 12:40.10 | rly | default 192.168.2.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 |
| 12:40.12 | rly | I have that routing table. Why can't I ping 192.168.2.1? |
| 12:40.28 | jonwil | dont think its actually worth further work now that I think about it |
| 12:40.36 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: hostmode N9 |
| 12:40.43 | SpeedEvil | rly: Is the other side proeprly configured? |
| 12:40.56 | rly | SpeedEvil: define other |
| 12:41.09 | SpeedEvil | Other side of the cable |
| 12:41.10 | jargon- | how do i forward an SMS in Conversations? anybody know? |
| 12:41.17 | jonwil | so any ideas for what I should do from my list? |
| 12:41.24 | rly | SpeedEvil: I am currently using that connection to chat. |
| 12:41.27 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ahh I see.. wait what? hostmode N9? you mean in other words N9 doesn't normally come with hostmode? hmm no that doesn't sound right either |
| 12:41.31 | rly | SpeedEvil: so, I think it is, yes :) |
| 12:41.43 | rly | SpeedEvil: also, when I break the n900 connection, it works. |
| 12:41.44 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@c-69-244-203-127.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 12:42.01 | jargon- | nevermind. found out how |
| 12:42.08 | SpeedEvil | Operator-name into extras? |
| 12:42.09 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: N9 comes with hostmode? BWAHAHAAAHA |
| 12:42.26 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: N8 does |
| 12:42.32 | DocScrutinizer | I know |
| 12:42.36 | jacekowski | N8 FTW |
| 12:42.43 | psycho_oreos | FTL |
| 12:42.46 | rly | DocScrutinizer: can you have a look at the above routing table? |
| 12:42.47 | DocScrutinizer | WTF |
| 12:42.56 | DocScrutinizer | rly: no |
| 12:43.00 | rly | DocScrutinizer: can you have a look at the above routing table, please? |
| 12:43.30 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, I remember seeing a thread about N9 charing N900 or something.. I could be wrong however but if N9 doesn't do hostmode, that's yet again another crippling feature thanks to Flop |
| 12:43.32 | SpeedEvil | If you can use the connection, not pinging isn't a routing thing. |
| 12:43.41 | psycho_oreos | s/charing/charging/ |
| 12:43.56 | SpeedEvil | The connection is dropping ping, for some reason, or the client on the other end is not responding to pings |
| 12:43.59 | jonwil | cant really work on operator-name-cbs-widget because I dont have the skills to do the config stuff really |
| 12:44.03 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 12:44.05 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: N900 didn't have hostmode |
| 12:44.10 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: and that was before elop |
| 12:44.13 | rly | SpeedEvil: I also cannot browse websites right now. |
| 12:44.24 | rly | SpeedEvil: I cannot ping any place on the internet. |
| 12:44.24 | SpeedEvil | rly: can you tcpdump on the other side? |
| 12:44.35 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, by default it doesn't but they were hastening to release N900 anyway at the time |
| 12:44.44 | rly | SpeedEvil: no, that's my router, which has been functioning correctly for basically forever. |
| 12:44.48 | jonwil | any other suggestions from my list guys? |
| 12:44.53 | SpeedEvil | rly: This is usb-ether? |
| 12:44.59 | rly | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 12:45.18 | rly | SpeedEvil: so Router <=> PC <=> USB-ether phone |
| 12:45.22 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~irc_milho@188-222-193-237.zone13.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:45.29 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure - most of it seems reasonable. |
| 12:45.31 | psycho_oreos | jonwil, none that I can think of to be frank. Other than making wl1251 do master mode? that's almost literally impossible |
| 12:45.33 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~irc_milho@Maemo/community/contributor/Milhouse) |
| 12:45.35 | rly | SpeedEvil: PC <=> Phone works. |
| 12:45.40 | SpeedEvil | rly: ah |
| 12:45.52 | SpeedEvil | rly: you need to setup NAT/masquerading on the PC |
| 12:45.56 | rly | SpeedEvil: and normally I can ping my router just OK. |
| 12:46.03 | SpeedEvil | Or point-point route to the router |
| 12:46.11 | SpeedEvil | you can ping the PC? Can you ping the router? |
| 12:46.15 | rly | allow-hotplug n900 |
| 12:46.16 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: somebody here is talking him into bridging |
| 12:46.17 | rly | auto n900 |
| 12:46.19 | rly | iface n900 inet static |
| 12:46.21 | rly | address 192.168.2.14 |
| 12:46.23 | rly | netmask 255.255.255.0 |
| 12:46.25 | rly | up iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE |
| 12:46.27 | rly | up echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward |
| 12:46.29 | rly | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:46.31 | rly | down echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward |
| 12:46.33 | rly | You mean like this? |
| 12:46.34 | SpeedEvil | you need the right modules |
| 12:46.35 | rly | I did that. |
| 12:46.44 | rly | SpeedEvil: I didn't do that. |
| 12:46.49 | SpeedEvil | If you don't have the masq module/configured in - it won't work |
| 12:46.52 | rly | SpeedEvil: which modules? |
| 12:46.58 | jonwil | hmmm, I think I might do the connectivity widgets |
| 12:47.04 | jonwil | i.e. the wifi status bar gizmo |
| 12:47.08 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, also had Flop not came around, maybe we would have seen N950 been properly sold.. not these stupid qwerty-less variants.. and with N950 only be given to developers under some stupid contract and if they damage their N950, they won't get a replacement (like what happened to MohammadAG) |
| 12:47.18 | jonwil | an open clone of that might help |
| 12:47.41 | SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: err - MohammadAG was given a replacement, that Israeli customs are pondering exploding. |
| 12:47.52 | SpeedEvil | But that's not really nokias fault. |
| 12:48.05 | rly | SpeedEvil: which modules? http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications doesn't mention those. |
| 12:48.11 | psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, yet he was entitled to get another one should customs lose it, no? |
| 12:48.12 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:48.25 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: they've exploded his replacement n950? |
| 12:48.31 | DocScrutinizer | it's actually MohammadAG 's fault more and more - he ought have reported to Nokia DDP some weeks ago, so sender could have complained |
| 12:48.35 | jonwil | wonders what Israeli customs has against Nokia handsets anyway |
| 12:48.37 | rly | Also, why doesn't it say "cannot understand configuration" or something like that. |
| 12:48.39 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: how many replacements you can send |
| 12:48.56 | SpeedEvil | rly: you need the right modules on the PC side |
| 12:49.04 | *** join/#maemo Roomerlol (~Roomerlol@95-26-132-110.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 12:49.19 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, I've not sent any and I won't be sending any of mine to nokia care anyway. It'll probably never get returned because they want to get rid of maemo users |
| 12:49.39 | SpeedEvil | suspects his n900 has been thrown in a bin today. |
| 12:49.45 | rly | SpeedEvil: yes, but which modules? |
| 12:49.50 | SpeedEvil | (should have arrived at the repair centre today) |
| 12:49.51 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: there are better phones around |
| 12:50.12 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, there's none equivalent to N900, period |
| 12:50.12 | jacekowski | and maemo doesn't have enough applications to make it work |
| 12:50.12 | SpeedEvil | rly: I forget the details - they are the iptables modules dealing with masq |
| 12:50.18 | jacekowski | at least not in mainstream |
| 12:50.30 | jacekowski | nokia lumia has a chance to pick up in mainstream |
| 12:50.33 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, at least not sold in a fashionable way that you can use |
| 12:50.42 | psycho_oreos | lumia is full of fail |
| 12:50.47 | jacekowski | like what? |
| 12:51.01 | psycho_oreos | wp7 woes? |
| 12:51.09 | Macer | e7 comes hostmode as well :) |
| 12:51.09 | jacekowski | with wp7 nokia has a partner that can and will spend a lot of money on marketing |
| 12:51.12 | Macer | hides |
| 12:51.26 | joga | heh, yeah, MS marketing is rad |
| 12:51.28 | jonwil | wp7 is fail period |
| 12:51.29 | jacekowski | with n9 nokia was alone pretty much |
| 12:51.29 | joga | :p |
| 12:51.34 | psycho_oreos | seen that list of woes with wp7 as shallimus on tmo put on his signature? |
| 12:51.38 | Macer | jacekowski: i think the networks would market it more than MS |
| 12:51.44 | Macer | look at how much they market android :) |
| 12:52.01 | jacekowski | Macer: well, regardless, somebody will market it |
| 12:52.10 | jacekowski | maemo, not so much |
| 12:52.13 | psycho_oreos | spinning turd around |
| 12:52.18 | jacekowski | and they have to think about what is going to sell |
| 12:52.19 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~crashandd@LMontsouris-156-24-27-80.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:52.19 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 12:52.21 | Macer | i think ms will have to suck the bill up for that one |
| 12:52.37 | Macer | nobody wants to market it for them since android and ios do so well |
| 12:52.39 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: i will bet that n900 was one of lowest selling phones |
| 12:52.44 | joga | too bad having good marketing doesn't help if you just want a good phone like n900 |
| 12:52.47 | Macer | i used a winmob phone. it reminded me of a zune |
| 12:52.48 | joga | :) |
| 12:53.05 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, so what if it is? it has the features and the functionalities I pretty much need |
| 12:53.11 | Macer | jacekowski: only because they stopped making them :) |
| 12:53.17 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: they are not going to make phone only for you |
| 12:53.27 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: you can't support whole company |
| 12:53.37 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: they HAVE to think about what is going to make them money |
| 12:53.38 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, did I say I needed to support a fail company? |
| 12:53.45 | jacekowski | exactly |
| 12:53.47 | jacekowski | they don't care about you |
| 12:54.01 | Macer | i think swapping to winmob was a good move for nokia |
| 12:54.01 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, I have to THINK? umm no |
| 12:54.07 | Macer | they can keep "professionals" on their phones |
| 12:54.17 | Macer | and integrated exchange probably works way better on a windows phone |
| 12:54.17 | psycho_oreos | but that's ok, time will tell if their mango handsets sell |
| 12:54.39 | psycho_oreos | its all rubbish with microsoft and apple suing the living hell out of google |
| 12:54.44 | rly | SpeedEvil: iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE # executes correctly. |
| 12:54.49 | Macer | don't forget oracle :-P |
| 12:55.11 | Macer | you are masqing a phone? |
| 12:55.18 | Macer | lol |
| 12:55.18 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, the bottom line is that Flop was fail from beginning |
| 12:55.35 | Macer | flop is what they call meego nowadays? |
| 12:55.41 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: no |
| 12:55.45 | rly | Macer: I want to be able to ping my router on my PC and ping the phone on 192.168.2.15. |
| 12:55.47 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (~quassel@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 12:55.54 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, and no I don't have high demands, I'm not the sort of person that would care to buy new nokias as they roll out onto the shops |
| 12:56.15 | Macer | rly: then why are you going through all that? if they are connected to the same wifi router it should just work |
| 12:56.17 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, its ok, we shall see if this turd burger, ahem mango flies |
| 12:56.18 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: nokia has to think about what will sell |
| 12:56.29 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: maemo didn't sell |
| 12:56.29 | rly | Macer: don't complicate things. |
| 12:56.32 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, and they chose mango, wise choice.. yes wise choice indeed |
| 12:56.35 | Macer | uhm |
| 12:56.38 | rly | Macer: this is usb over ethernet. |
| 12:56.42 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: people said same thing about iOS |
| 12:56.44 | Macer | oh |
| 12:56.45 | rly | Macer: ethernet over usb. |
| 12:56.47 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, maemo was what? wasn't it a niche market for starters? |
| 12:57.10 | Macer | that seems like a bad way to do it :) |
| 12:57.11 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, except iOS was quite different fyi, have a look at ipods |
| 12:57.22 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: and yet, in 4 years iOS has a majority of market |
| 12:57.25 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, ipods were the one that created the trend for iphones |
| 12:57.27 | Macer | so you're just using the phone as a wifi adapter? |
| 12:57.47 | Macer | i guess that is a pretty good thing to do now that i think about it... a quick wifi adapter for those on the go moments |
| 12:58.13 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: doesn't matter, it sells |
| 12:58.19 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, again its not iOS alone that did the job, you do realise ipod created the trend and because people generally have fetish over apple products.. afterall we all know that apple has been a huge anti PC competitor since its birth |
| 12:58.21 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: maemo didn't sell enough to support whole company |
| 12:58.46 | jacekowski | symbian is almost dead as well |
| 12:58.52 | Macer | jacekowski: actually .... android has the majority of the market now ;) |
| 12:58.54 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, and so they chose windows apart from all the other possible solutions? wise choice indeed.. |
| 12:59.01 | Macer | in less time than ios too |
| 12:59.02 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: like what? |
| 12:59.10 | Macer | heh |
| 12:59.11 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, like what Flop did |
| 12:59.26 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: i mean other possible solutions |
| 12:59.29 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: name them |
| 12:59.38 | jacekowski | Macer: well, they both have big part of the market |
| 12:59.41 | Macer | psycho_oreos: macs are PCs :) |
| 12:59.42 | psycho_oreos | you have android, you have symbian, you have bada, you have meego |
| 12:59.56 | psycho_oreos | Macer, these days they are but they're not completely identical to PC :þ |
| 12:59.59 | Macer | they were competitors when they were ppc.. now they are just PCs with a different OS |
| 13:00.15 | psycho_oreos | Macer, they still don't use BIOS, they use EFI fyi |
| 13:00.19 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, ^^^ |
| 13:00.46 | psycho_oreos | who said about no other choice jacekowski? who said nokia had to choose microsoft? |
| 13:00.49 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: symbian is dying, bada is not fully open source yet and it's |
| 13:01.12 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, and symbian had how much of market share at the time? |
| 13:01.18 | jacekowski | now? |
| 13:01.21 | jacekowski | 30% maybe |
| 13:01.37 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, which countries produces symbian clones for various lookalike handsets? |
| 13:01.49 | Macer | lol |
| 13:02.09 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, and don't forget that nokia WAS one of the top manufacturers for handsets way before Flop came in |
| 13:02.16 | jacekowski | no |
| 13:02.22 | jacekowski | they weren't |
| 13:02.30 | jacekowski | they sales were going down before elop came in |
| 13:02.37 | psycho_oreos | then who was? |
| 13:02.38 | jacekowski | symbian was dead long before |
| 13:02.38 | Macer | http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/pe7150/en/ug/35ruvc20.htm |
| 13:02.52 | Macer | what does EFI have to do with the arch? |
| 13:03.04 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: they all have about same market share now |
| 13:03.29 | Macer | Dell uses EFI as well. EFI was SUPPOSED to replace the BIOS idiocy still being used from the before time |
| 13:03.29 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: and besides, there is big market in US and nokia doesn't exist on it |
| 13:03.31 | psycho_oreos | Macer, I didn't specifically note that EFI has to do with arch, I'm talking in relative differences that Macs still use EFI |
| 13:03.42 | Macer | uhm |
| 13:03.47 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: my laptop has EFI |
| 13:03.49 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, not so |
| 13:04.10 | jacekowski | i think you are quite far away from reality |
| 13:04.17 | Macer | as do i |
| 13:04.32 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~yuki@121.54.2.104) |
| 13:04.44 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, apart from US where you have other huge markets out there to look at, you haven't seen what is the norm |
| 13:04.57 | Macer | a mac is a "PC" nowadays. but then again... in the literal sense..a PC is simply any computer used by an end user |
| 13:04.59 | *** join/#maemo tackat_ (~trahn@pd956c438.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:05.06 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: well i'm in the UK |
| 13:05.11 | Macer | somehow "PC" has been used to describe the x86 arch |
| 13:05.14 | Macer | which i never understood |
| 13:05.27 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, never implied you were from US |
| 13:05.28 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: and most popular phone here is an iphone |
| 13:05.36 | jacekowski | in my company |
| 13:05.39 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, point being? |
| 13:06.06 | *** join/#maemo mardi (mardi@nat/ibm/x-pdefsdhoeylhvfvb) |
| 13:06.12 | jacekowski | nokia has half of apple marketshare in here |
| 13:06.12 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, apple may still have a large market share but its not as big as android conglomerate for the time being |
| 13:06.24 | psycho_oreos | and nokia is falling way behind |
| 13:06.35 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: and that was the case even year ago |
| 13:06.41 | jacekowski | before elop |
| 13:07.02 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, so are you saying the news was all a fud? |
| 13:07.06 | Macer | i blame stskeeps |
| 13:07.14 | jacekowski | no |
| 13:07.22 | jacekowski | i'm saying that nokia is in very bad position |
| 13:07.31 | Macer | they have been in a bad position for a very long time |
| 13:07.33 | jonwil | I think I might work on "figure out external stuff done by icd2 and its plugins", I know people would be interested in it |
| 13:07.38 | jacekowski | and they were in bad position for very long time |
| 13:07.46 | Macer | they just didn't want to admit it or couldn't see it since they were on the top of the mountain for so long |
| 13:07.55 | jacekowski | and i don't think they want to be just another symbian OEM |
| 13:07.55 | psycho_oreos | it still does not give them the equitable position to choose microsoft as a partner |
| 13:08.02 | jacekowski | android OEM* |
| 13:08.24 | jacekowski | microsoft already has mobile experience |
| 13:08.29 | jacekowski | they have a platform |
| 13:08.33 | psycho_oreos | or lack thereof |
| 13:08.38 | jacekowski | windows mobile |
| 13:08.40 | jacekowski | it worked |
| 13:08.44 | jacekowski | it was biggest platform |
| 13:08.49 | jacekowski | it was a platform that killed palm os |
| 13:08.50 | psycho_oreos | and wp7 with issues |
| 13:08.51 | Macer | i think they are just using winmob as a stopgap until they can make something worth using by the masses |
| 13:09.01 | psycho_oreos | and how big was palm os? |
| 13:09.10 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: before, 100% of market |
| 13:09.15 | Macer | hopefully this time they keep it to themselves so it doesn't get all the hype that meego had |
| 13:09.25 | Macer | and they just release it without anybody seeing it coming |
| 13:09.31 | Macer | i blame open source |
| 13:09.32 | Macer | :) |
| 13:09.32 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, I think that's an overstatement |
| 13:09.49 | Macer | companies love to preach "open" .. it reminds me of obama and "change" |
| 13:10.05 | *** join/#maemo drj_cro (~juka@cpe-188-129-126-156.dynamic.amis.hr) |
| 13:10.59 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 13:11.19 | psycho_oreos | and I wouldn't back microsoft, they're hacker hostile, not much different from apple |
| 13:11.44 | Macer | the cattle aren't hackers |
| 13:11.56 | Macer | they want shining lights and beeping noises |
| 13:11.58 | psycho_oreos | the cattle aren't always hackers |
| 13:12.23 | Macer | they don't care about open development.. they're companies.. money is the bottom line |
| 13:12.33 | Macer | if you don't like it but 10,000,000 do.. then oh well :) |
| 13:12.52 | Macer | not to mention the headaches avoided by keeping dev in house |
| 13:12.54 | jacekowski | During all of last year, Palm accounted for 58% of handhelds sold. In 2000, that number was 71%. It was a bad year for Palm, |
| 13:12.58 | psycho_oreos | recalls of wm or wp7 rooting tool. They (microsoft) apparently paid these developers who made jailbreaks to hush up |
| 13:13.28 | jacekowski | they lost that marketshare because of symbian and winmo |
| 13:13.46 | jacekowski | winmo was replaced by android |
| 13:13.49 | psycho_oreos | it still doesn't mean that winmo had 100% of market share, that's the bottom line |
| 13:13.52 | jacekowski | symbian held little bit better |
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| 13:14.11 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: they had most of market before android |
| 13:14.27 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, indeed but they didn't dominate the market |
| 13:14.44 | jacekowski | but they had big chunk of t |
| 13:14.46 | jacekowski | of it |
| 13:14.51 | Macer | doesn't "most" = "dominate" |
| 13:14.57 | jacekowski | no |
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| 13:15.43 | Macer | i think 50%+ of a market with more than 4 competitors is a good domination |
| 13:16.18 | Macer | apple still technically has android beat considering android maintains its percentage of use across many different platforms and companies |
| 13:16.19 | psycho_oreos | or I could have simply put it as obliterate |
| 13:16.32 | Macer | whereas ios is apple only |
| 13:16.45 | Macer | another win for closed dev :) |
| 13:16.47 | psycho_oreos | and apple likes it like that |
| 13:16.56 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: why they wouldn't |
| 13:16.59 | jacekowski | it works for them |
| 13:17.10 | jacekowski | if microsoft and nokia go for same model it may work for them |
| 13:17.12 | Macer | it makes them a $hitload of money |
| 13:17.21 | jacekowski | esspecialy that they have market experience |
| 13:17.37 | jacekowski | if they can pull it off |
| 13:18.00 | Macer | i am sure there are plenty of people at nokia facepalming and saying "why didn't we do that first" |
| 13:18.13 | SpeedEvil | sighs at another closed platform. |
| 13:18.14 | Macer | and they had kingitis... where they lost vision because they were on the top for so long |
| 13:18.21 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, hint word: may.. however for now all the news has gone and past that nokia was a pretty much a burning platform with shares dipping after Flop came in, I can see a charred platform |
| 13:18.40 | Macer | SpeedEvil: lol... apply for a job there ;) |
| 13:18.49 | Macer | then it will be open to you |
| 13:19.01 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: symbian was going down before elop came in |
| 13:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: err, lost topic, please help me out. Another closed paltform? |
| 13:19.21 | Macer | not only that... but there is a structure.... with a leader... who says how things go... and keeps things in order.. instead of the constant open forking |
| 13:19.35 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, I'm not talking about OS wise, I'm talking about the company in general |
| 13:19.41 | jacekowski | http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/12128_The_smartphone_crystal_ball_th.php |
| 13:19.51 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, but symbian still has had a large market share |
| 13:20.07 | psycho_oreos | at least 10 times larger than maemo |
| 13:20.26 | jacekowski | that's why they have N8 |
| 13:20.28 | Macer | maemo never had very much of a share |
| 13:20.29 | jacekowski | and other symbian phones |
| 13:20.41 | *** join/#maemo archl (~chatzilla@110-174-150-114.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:21.06 | jacekowski | but a good business plan has few exit strategies |
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| 13:21.15 | jacekowski | if they can't make anything out of symbian they have wp7 |
| 13:21.16 | psycho_oreos | maemo was only targeted for niche markets |
| 13:21.40 | jacekowski | if they can't do anything there they may go for android |
| 13:21.56 | Macer | jacekowski: i honestly hope they do ... "fix" symbian |
| 13:22.16 | Macer | it would be a shame to see symbian go... regardless of what people say about it.. it probably really is the best mobile OS ever made |
| 13:22.31 | psycho_oreos | by the time they switch to android I don't think they would have that much funds to pull off nice handsets but we shall see. maybe the end of nokia is pretty much here if mango is killed |
| 13:22.35 | Macer | in terms of power vs performance etc |
| 13:22.52 | jacekowski | Macer: well, it's kinda hard to introduce "new" platform to market |
| 13:23.02 | jacekowski | Macer: symbian^3 with touch is quite new thing |
| 13:23.04 | Macer | although i REALLY wish they stuck with maemo |
| 13:23.05 | Macer | heh |
| 13:23.16 | jacekowski | google had a lot of funds to pull that off |
| 13:23.27 | jacekowski | coming from other sources |
| 13:23.31 | jacekowski | nokia doesn't have that |
| 13:23.33 | Macer | jacekowski: i am buying an e7 still |
| 13:23.40 | Macer | regardless of symbian dying or not ;) |
| 13:23.43 | jacekowski | Macer: why not n8? |
| 13:23.47 | Macer | qwerty |
| 13:23.52 | DocScrutinizer | I think Nokia still has more money than a single person can move... every day |
| 13:24.01 | Macer | i want the kb |
| 13:24.03 | jacekowski | Macer: swype works very well on n8 |
| 13:24.16 | SpeedEvil | Swipe/swype is a horrible confusion. |
| 13:24.20 | Macer | jacekowski: i hate swype... and vkbs in general |
| 13:24.33 | Macer | i refuse to buy a phone without a keyboard |
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| 13:24.38 | jacekowski | i don't write poems on phone |
| 13:24.43 | jacekowski | so i don't really care |
| 13:24.46 | jacekowski | i have a laptop for that |
| 13:24.55 | jacekowski | that i ussualy take with me to most places |
| 13:24.58 | Macer | i don't either... but i still write a lot of IMs and txts |
| 13:25.01 | DocScrutinizer | I wrte unix cmdlines on my phone |
| 13:25.04 | Macer | and hate vkb |
| 13:25.13 | psycho_oreos | I write scripts on my device |
| 13:25.19 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: me too |
| 13:25.24 | Macer | that's a pretty big one |
| 13:25.29 | Macer | ssh without a qwerty sucks |
| 13:25.36 | Macer | the vkb takes up the screen |
| 13:26.03 | DocScrutinizer | and still doesn't offer |{}\ |
| 13:26.16 | psycho_oreos | and if vkb dies on you when you don't have a qwerty built-in, you're pretty much SOL until you purchase a compatible BT keyboard |
| 13:26.18 | DocScrutinizer | etc |
| 13:27.03 | DocScrutinizer | well, if $XY dies, you're usually SOL |
| 13:27.27 | Macer | :) vkb? |
| 13:27.36 | Macer | i am wondering how a vkb can die on you |
| 13:27.40 | psycho_oreos | touchscreen functionality |
| 13:27.42 | DocScrutinizer | also notice that BT kbd doesn't work with HARM/N9 |
| 13:27.44 | jacekowski | SOL? |
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| 13:27.54 | Macer | jacekowski: shit out of luck |
| 13:28.03 | psycho_oreos | Macer, install mscim/qimsys on N900 from extras-devel.. enjoy |
| 13:28.07 | DocScrutinizer | ~sol |
| 13:28.08 | infobot | [sol] Shit Outta Luck. Sex On Legs. Earth's star, or the note that precedes La, or but really straight out of luck, or a shit beer |
| 13:28.33 | psycho_oreos | or even portrait keyboard, sometimes that even breaks the vkb easily |
| 13:28.39 | Macer | i hate words like outta |
| 13:28.54 | jacekowski | that's nigga english |
| 13:29.03 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo sol |
| 13:29.03 | infobot | sol -- last modified at Mon Oct 6 03:23:25 2003 by debian!~mcppala@is7.pacific.net.hk; it has been requested 3 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 55s ago. |
| 13:29.11 | Macer | jacekowski: in the US we call it ebonics |
| 13:30.00 | DocScrutinizer | ~wtf sol |
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| 13:30.13 | Macer | ironically enough... when schools wanted to rid the world of it... we had a big racism things because "ebonics is part of a culture and should be accepted" |
| 13:30.18 | psycho_oreos | <DocScrutinizer> also notice that BT kbd doesn't work with HARM/N9 <--- with some hope and maybe luck, we may see a light to this never ending hell hole tunnel |
| 13:30.54 | Macer | it took quite a while for a BT keyboard to properly work with a damn n900 lol |
| 13:31.14 | Macer | my su8w (which worked perfectly on my n800 and n810) didn't work out the box |
| 13:31.19 | SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: based on what? |
| 13:31.20 | Macer | and the bug was WONTFIX |
| 13:31.22 | Macer | hah |
| 13:31.38 | Macer | i am starting to wonder which bugs were actually FIXED |
| 13:32.02 | psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, based on averting the stupid security measures nokia is trying to force us to use and N9's crippled functionality (vs N950) |
| 13:33.03 | DocScrutinizer | indeed there *might* be hope to see hwkbd go to N9 fw from N950, on a future release |
| 13:33.25 | DocScrutinizer | s/hwkbd/hwkbd *support*/ |
| 13:34.24 | DocScrutinizer | as allegedly BT kbds work on N950 (what an irony) |
| 13:34.52 | psycho_oreos | its one of the cool things when you're one of the chosen devs to get N950 |
| 13:35.16 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: why does that matter if there are only 1K N9s and no N950s? |
| 13:35.35 | DocScrutinizer | btw with N9 not supporting the basic hwkbd infra I'd expect USB kbds also to fail, if ever we get hostmode |
| 13:36.17 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: you won't... N9s and N950s are dead coming out the gate... you should be thankful you were blessed with an n950... collectors item |
| 13:36.19 | psycho_oreos | hahahaha |
| 13:36.42 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not a collector |
| 13:36.52 | Macer | i didn't say you were |
| 13:36.58 | psycho_oreos | N9 = severely crippled, so much so that it'll soon need to be placed in a wheelchair |
| 13:37.00 | Macer | i am just saying what it is :) |
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| 13:37.14 | Macer | psycho_oreos: the N9 was released as something designed to fail |
| 13:37.33 | Macer | probably to justify abandoning meego and using winmob while they secretly work on making a symbian worthwhile for the masses |
| 13:37.48 | psycho_oreos | Macer, ironically nokia continues to tantalise people. Have a look for white N9 |
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| 13:39.09 | Macer | wow |
| 13:39.12 | Macer | N9 on amazon? |
| 13:39.20 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: and I'm just explaining how much I feel blessed |
| 13:39.28 | Macer | $700?! are these people high? |
| 13:39.37 | Macer | DocScrutinizer: i see :) |
| 13:39.59 | Macer | i would get one but not for that much |
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| 13:40.43 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: how long does n950 last on battery |
| 13:40.47 | jacekowski | on single charge |
| 13:40.52 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: NFC |
| 13:41.00 | jacekowski | you have one? |
| 13:41.04 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It depends. |
| 13:41.20 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: From a week, to 4 hours. |
| 13:41.23 | jacekowski | is it possible to get 3 days out of it |
| 13:41.27 | SpeedEvil | (gof2) |
| 13:41.28 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yes. And I actually inserted a SIM and took it out... for ~6h |
| 13:41.29 | jacekowski | with few phone calls |
| 13:41.33 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: easily |
| 13:41.41 | jacekowski | looking at map few times |
| 13:41.44 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: battery life is in general better than n900. |
| 13:41.45 | jacekowski | and some interwebs |
| 13:41.54 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: since then it basically never left the charger |
| 13:42.17 | DocScrutinizer | wait, not true, I used it even on SIM on that local test GSM net at chaos camp |
| 13:42.26 | DocScrutinizer | performed quite nicely there |
| 13:42.54 | jacekowski | hmm, does it have that 2 processor design as well |
| 13:43.01 | jacekowski | with cellmo and app processor? |
| 13:43.15 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 13:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | it's basically "identical" to N900, arch wise |
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| 13:44.25 | DocScrutinizer | well, there are some significant diffs in audio hw it seems |
| 13:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | though I can't tell for sure - no schematics :-S |
| 13:45.25 | DocScrutinizer | that'S btw the reason I need a N9 for hostmode R&D |
| 13:46.05 | jack_lt | is there a keybd shortcut to switch standby on/ off? |
| 13:46.15 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 13:46.18 | jack_lt | instead of using that knob on the side of a n900 |
| 13:46.24 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 13:46.33 | jack_lt | hm ok |
| 13:46.57 | psycho_oreos | jack_lt, though if you press the power button twice it can turn the screen off however |
| 13:47.06 | DocScrutinizer | unless you accept a dbus-send cmd in xterm as a "shortcut" |
| 13:47.34 | jack_lt | I accept it for this time ... :) |
| 13:47.44 | DocScrutinizer | see phonecontrol on wiki |
| 13:48.50 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Lock_screen_and_keys |
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| 13:58.39 | Zoup | is there any debian image to "flash" on n900? |
| 14:00.07 | psycho_oreos | no |
| 14:00.31 | NIN101 | elektranox.org/n900/installation/index.html or use debootstrap http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap |
| 14:00.50 | Sicelo | ;) i was just about to say contact NIN101 :P |
| 14:01.15 | NIN101 | heh |
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| 14:10.27 | NIN101 | debootstrap of course only installs a base system by default, no gui, no kernel etc. and the resulting debian requires some configuration to be more or less useable. |
| 14:14.43 | jack_lt | DocScrutinizer, unlock seems to be hard cause the n900 doesn't accept input when logging it via the switch |
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| 14:27.06 | jonwil | bah, icd2 is a mess |
| 14:27.12 | jonwil | understanding how it works is nigh-impossible |
| 14:27.59 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 14:29.01 | jonwil | Lets start by seeing what packages depend on it |
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| 14:33.33 | jonwil | hmmm, I think I can figure out bits of what I wanted |
| 14:33.51 | jonwil | dbus seems to be the only hard part to ID :( |
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| 14:37.25 | jonwil | actually, it doesn't seem as hard as I thought, not if I can find the right bits in the (rather comprehensive) icd2 documentation package :) |
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| 14:50.50 | LaoLang_cool | How to search a app via apt-get? I've tried to man apt-get, but find that no man pages installed... |
| 14:51.27 | Sicelo | apt-cache search |
| 14:52.53 | LaoLang_cool | Sicelo: I try to apt-cache search man to search pkg for man page, but lots of output produced... |
| 14:53.18 | LaoLang_cool | I want to install a man page for commands in OS |
| 14:54.46 | Sicelo | i think u want man-db-n900 |
| 14:55.05 | DocScrutinizer | jack_lt: sorry? |
| 14:57.38 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy man-db-n900 |
| 14:57.39 | DocScrutinizer | man-db-n900: |
| 14:57.41 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:08.04 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer: Sicelo thank you! |
| 15:10.06 | LaoLang_cool | How to set the env in ash? when I try to use man, it warns: pager: applet not found |
| 15:10.17 | LaoLang_cool | I guess that's because no $PAGER is defined |
| 15:10.30 | LaoLang_cool | But no `export` command here... |
| 15:10.41 | LaoLang_cool | and no setenv cmd too.. |
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| 15:13.09 | SpeedEvil | I don't think there are manpages |
| 15:13.11 | psycho_oreos | you can get bash |
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| 15:14.17 | LaoLang_cool | psycho_oreos: Why ash can't?... |
| 15:14.37 | LaoLang_cool | SpeedEvil: I've installed man-db-n900 |
| 15:14.51 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 15:15.19 | SpeedEvil | In the profile - set RAGER=foo ? |
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| 15:16.04 | DocScrutinizer | LaoLang_cool: apt-get install less |
| 15:16.22 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer: I've more... |
| 15:16.30 | LaoLang_cool | more is enough |
| 15:16.53 | LaoLang_cool | Or manpage has to use less as pager in n900? |
| 15:17.02 | psycho_oreos | LaoLang_cool, I don't know. I hardly use ash myself |
| 15:17.17 | DocScrutinizer | well, then I guess a `PAGER=/bin/more man man` shall work |
| 15:17.57 | DocScrutinizer | and I would be surprised to learn busybox had no export |
| 15:18.23 | psycho_oreos | busybox-power ftw |
| 15:18.25 | DocScrutinizer | (well, not really surprised, I mean it's messybox after all. nevertheless...) |
| 15:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: eeew |
| 15:18.48 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, it has fdisk built-in for busybox-power :D |
| 15:18.49 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer: you're right, it works, thank you |
| 15:19.00 | psycho_oreos | I'll use that any day over sfdisk personally |
| 15:19.27 | LaoLang_cool | How to set the env var in ash? |
| 15:19.47 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: |
| 15:19.48 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# cfdisk -v |
| 15:19.50 | DocScrutinizer | cfdisk 2.12r |
| 15:20.05 | jacekowski | jacekowski:~# cfdisk -v |
| 15:20.06 | jacekowski | cfdisk (util-linux-ng 2.17.2) |
| 15:21.30 | DocScrutinizer | LaoLang_cool: |
| 15:21.34 | DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# help |
| 15:21.36 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, lol I have cfdisk as well but I much prefer fdisk :D |
| 15:21.42 | DocScrutinizer | Built-in commands: |
| 15:21.49 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:22.45 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer: thanks! I'm surprised that <tab> can't complete the built-in cmd |
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| 15:23.34 | DocScrutinizer | ~messybox |
| 15:23.34 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 15:23.58 | psycho_oreos | wait, ok I lied I don't have cfdisk installed on N900 but meh fdisk is plenty |
| 15:24.09 | LaoLang_cool | DocScrutinizer: I got it, thank you! |
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| 15:26.16 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I'd not trust messybox fdisk to even just read out a partition table |
| 15:27.09 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, didn't know your utter hatred for messybox was that deep :) |
| 15:27.17 | DocScrutinizer | and particularly fdisk and friends I insist in hte original, latest version |
| 15:28.15 | DocScrutinizer | you'd not trust in cheap china fleabay parachutes, would you? |
| 15:29.27 | psycho_oreos | I wouldn't think messybox is comparable to cheap chinese fleabay parachutes :) |
| 15:29.54 | SpeedEvil | Busybox has been found by the state of california to cause cancer in rats. |
| 15:30.09 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 15:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | actually I'd suspect busybox been invented by poettering |
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| 15:35.27 | rly | I lost all my 'Catalogs'. How can I get them back? |
| 15:38.47 | Phlogistique | rly: what do you mean "lost" |
| 15:39.36 | ShadowJK | what's catalogs? |
| 15:40.33 | rly | Phlogistique: after a reboot they were not lost anymore. |
| 15:40.34 | SpeedEvil | ham |
| 15:40.59 | rly | The Debian equivalent is a repo. |
| 15:41.44 | chem|st | rly: the debian equivalent is sources |
| 15:42.31 | chem|st | rly: and we are on debian... if you are talking about m5 |
| 15:42.53 | DocScrutinizer | chem|st: according to the filename yes. And hi! |
| 15:43.00 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: hey |
| 15:44.45 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: repo is just what it is called, in all apt envies it is sources... |
| 15:45.06 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 15:45.22 | DocScrutinizer | and HAM calls them catalog |
| 15:46.34 | rly | So, anyway, I installed bootscreen, but I don't get some fancy 3d animation. |
| 15:46.39 | chem|st | catalogs in terms of m5 is repo added to sources where "catalogs" are available, not all files in a repo are shown in ham so it si a "catalog" view of tagged programs which are available in $source |
| 15:46.49 | rly | I still get the annoying Nokia startup sound. |
| 15:47.05 | rly | The tie ta do ta ti ta. |
| 15:48.03 | chem|st | seems a bit like mail-order to me ;) |
| 15:48.46 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell rly about jrtools |
| 15:52.31 | rly | I want to do this, but I don't see the bootscreen applet anywhere. http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/02/21/bootscreen-lets-you-change-the-n900-boot-video-with-one-click/ |
| 15:52.41 | rly | I can remove the bootscreen package, which suggests that I have it. |
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| 15:55.36 | rly | Ok, I get it. |
| 15:55.40 | rly | There is just no icon. |
| 16:01.08 | rly | Great, then it says 'Error copying file'. |
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| 16:07.49 | rly | How is the video folder called on the file system? |
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| 16:09.22 | Sicelo | /opt/usr/share/hildon-welcome/media/ |
| 16:11.01 | rly | I also find it weird that I don't get the bootscreen app icon. |
| 16:11.08 | rly | I started it from the CLI which does work. |
| 16:12.23 | jonwil | wonders if an open source clone of browserd is of value to anyone |
| 16:12.55 | rly | jonwil: yes, because browserd sometimes uses 95% CPU. |
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| 16:13.31 | rly | Sicelo: will that also get rid of the startup sound, btw? |
| 16:13.34 | jonwil | although mostly browserd is just a wrapper around browser-eal |
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| 16:13.58 | jonwil | and browser-eal is open source |
| 16:14.24 | jonwil | I do have code to an unknown version of browserd which is what I am playing with and comparing to the maemo5 browserd |
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| 16:20.48 | rly | Well the fancy start video doesn't work, but it does boot faster now. |
| 16:20.59 | rly | (and I got rid of the sound \o/ ) |
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| 16:23.51 | Corsac | shouldn't the same method as n900 work? (commenting the right line on the right file) |
| 16:24.03 | Corsac | hmhm wait, this is on n900 |
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| 16:56.47 | rly | Is there a stock market app? |
| 16:59.56 | NIN101 | rly: sometimes it might be helpful to search: 1. maemo.org 2. talk.maemo.org 3. Google |
| 17:01.02 | rly | NIN101: I already am installing an app. |
| 17:01.24 | rly | NIN101: Google can only tell you something exists, not how good it is. |
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| 17:02.20 | nid0 | you did ask if a stock market app exists though, not how good stockthis is |
| 17:03.50 | NIN101 | not true apparently. it can also link to reviews and opinions |
| 17:04.29 | NIN101 | helpful to draw your conclusion. |
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| 17:23.28 | RST38bis | Helo gentlemen |
| 17:23.55 | RST38bis | Nokia Update Tool offers to update my N900 to 21.2011.38.1. Should I??? |
| 17:24.26 | HyperSnyper | isnt cssu a better option fo rthe fixes ? |
| 17:24.26 | Corsac | this is the diginotar update, isn't it? |
| 17:24.48 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 17:24.58 | SpeedEvil | diginotar-- |
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| 17:25.50 | Corsac | RST38bis: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12448 and https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12378 in case |
| 17:25.52 | povbot` | 04Bug 12448: Blacklisted certificates are shown as trusted roots in the certificates applet |
| 17:25.53 | povbot` | 04Bug 12378: Remove diginotar and comodo certificates |
| 17:26.14 | RST38bis | But I already updated via apt-get upgrade |
| 17:26.20 | RST38bis | So, why is it still offering it to me? |
| 17:26.23 | Corsac | and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79400 |
| 17:26.32 | Corsac | no idea |
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| 17:40.51 | celesteh | Maemo lives! |
| 17:41.52 | nid0 | it does? |
| 17:42.22 | celesteh | My application manager on my n900 says there's an update. |
| 17:42.36 | nid0 | all it does is remove a couple of root certs |
| 17:42.37 | celesteh | But it did come out on the day of the dead.... |
| 17:43.25 | celesteh | Oh, alas. I was filled with false hope. |
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| 17:58.43 | ale152 | hello! |
| 17:58.55 | ale152 | hello! |
| 17:59.05 | SpeedEvil | ! |
| 17:59.25 | ale152 | some time ago I set something in a config file to avoid auto-updates of my n900 |
| 17:59.48 | ale152 | now it's about 1 month i can't see new updates |
| 17:59.53 | ale152 | is there something wrong? |
| 18:00.05 | ale152 | *broken |
| 18:00.56 | SpeedEvil | There have been relatively few updates. |
| 18:03.00 | ale152 | less then in the last 4-5 months? |
| 18:04.01 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:04.08 | ale152 | mmm |
| 18:04.18 | ale152 | i read about a new fw update |
| 18:04.19 | SpeedEvil | Though there has very recently been a system software update. |
| 18:04.22 | SpeedEvil | (to remove the diginotar certs) |
| 18:04.29 | ale152 | should i see it in the available updates? |
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| 18:04.58 | ale152 | this is the only new update? |
| 18:05.18 | SpeedEvil | maybe - have you explicitly updated in HAM? |
| 18:05.23 | SpeedEvil | 'refresh' |
| 18:06.30 | ale152 | "With a size of 191 MB, features and performance improvements, updated applications and increased stability" |
| 18:06.32 | ale152 | is it true? |
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| 18:07.01 | SpeedEvil | What is uyour current version? |
| 18:07.02 | Sicelo | heh, 191 MB :P |
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| 18:07.11 | SpeedEvil | Not if you're on the current version. |
| 18:07.14 | SpeedEvil | The update is 300k |
| 18:08.11 | ale152 | :( |
| 18:08.22 | ale152 | is there any official changelog, somewhere? |
| 18:09.15 | Sicelo | just certificate stuff. see /topic, esp a post by jonwil |
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| 20:55.40 | trumee | guys, i want to install multiboot-kernel-power. apt-get is insisting to upgrade my kernel-power v47 to v48 which i dont want. Is there a way to pin the kernel to v47? |
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| 20:56.52 | Sicelo | yes |
| 20:57.23 | Sicelo | apt-get install kernel-power=<version here> |
| 20:57.38 | trumee | Sicelo: http://pastebin.com/fnGfKhCJ |
| 20:57.54 | Sicelo | used that to downgrade from v48 to v47 |
| 20:58.21 | trumee | Sicelo: i tried pinning the kernel-power to v47, but apt-get is fetching the bfs kernel for me |
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| 21:00.37 | trumee | any debmasters around? |
| 21:00.49 | Sicelo | apt-get install kernel-power=2.6.28-10power47 |
| 21:00.55 | Sicelo | no pinning needed |
| 21:01.37 | trumee | I already have v47 installed. I want to install multiboot-kernel-power |
| 21:02.04 | Sicelo | oh. didn't understand u. sorry |
| 21:02.06 | trumee | But multiboot-kernel-power is trying to upgrade me to v48 which i dont want |
| 21:02.46 | DocScrutinizer | ponders setting an autokick on "multiboot" |
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| 21:04.10 | trumee | understands multiboot is ugly, but necessary to try out nitdroid |
| 21:05.33 | DocScrutinizer | sets another autokick on "nitdroid" |
| 21:15.02 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: are you with KP-v48? |
| 21:15.28 | DocScrutinizer | no |
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| 21:16.20 | DocScrutinizer | Linux t900 2.6.28.10power46 #1 PREEMPT Sun Dec 12 03:11:24 EET 2010 armv7l unknown |
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| 21:23.07 | trumee | feels gentoo system of package mgmnt is easier than debians :( |
| 21:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 21:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | gentoo also wouldn't explain to you why you can't run multiboot with KP48 built in on a system that has KP47 |
| 21:29.23 | Sicelo | heh.. though i'm noob, i doubt that trumee |
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| 21:30.34 | Sicelo | what about apt-get install multiboot-kernel-power kernel-power=2.6.28-10power47? |
| 21:30.52 | Sicelo | doesn't seem to upgrade kernel power my side |
| 21:30.53 | DocScrutinizer | multiboot is a *monster* and will 100% guarantee to bring you headache when upgrading any of the used kernels - even more that's true for *downgrading* kernels |
| 21:30.57 | ShadowJK | I thought apt-get was a bad idea for kernels |
| 21:31.18 | DocScrutinizer | ~multiboot |
| 21:31.18 | infobot | from memory, multiboot is at http://www.cantech.net.au/plug/08-1998/287.html |
| 21:31.23 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 21:31.31 | DocScrutinizer | ~maemo-multiboot |
| 21:31.31 | infobot | methinks maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED |
| 21:32.14 | Sicelo | yes trumee, i'm not advocating multiboot myself, just debian ;) |
| 21:33.33 | trumee | Sicelo: hmm, i got an error message E: Version '2.6.28-10power47' for 'kernel-power' was not found |
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| 21:33.46 | trumee | Sicelo: perhaps v47 is in testing which i dont have enabled |
| 21:35.01 | Sicelo | works for me. either way, it shouldn't even be trying to download or find that if u are correct saying u already have KP47 |
| 21:35.23 | Sicelo | afaict, that is |
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| 21:46.15 | trumee | Sicelo: even after enabling testing i am getting a E: Version '2.6.28-10power47' for 'kernel-power' was not found |
| 21:46.45 | rly | Is 21.2011.38-1 the CSSU version? |
| 21:47.34 | Sicelo | maybe devel.. i don't rememberer where 47 is... where did u get it.. u said u have 47... |
| 21:47.54 | Sicelo | s/rer/r/ |
| 21:48.04 | trumee | Sicelo: i have both devel and testing enabled now |
| 21:48.05 | rly | "Upgrade to PR1.3, Nokia's last official Maemo 5 update. If you're unsure if you have, Settings > About product should show Version beginning with 20.2010.36. " |
| 21:48.08 | Sicelo | rly: no |
| 21:48.25 | trumee | Sicelo: i must have got v47 from devel |
| 21:48.42 | rly | Sicelo: can I upgrade to CSSU from my version? |
| 21:50.44 | Sicelo | yes rly. u are on the latest |
| 21:51.30 | Sicelo | gosh, my net realy sucks :'( |
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| 21:52.04 | trumee | Sicelo: seems your command had a typo, should be apt-get -s install kernel-power=1:2.6.28-10power47 |
| 21:53.23 | Sicelo | heh, yes.. that's what my XTerm has. sorry |
| 21:54.33 | Sicelo | consults man for apt-get -s |
| 21:55.03 | rly | Sicelo: does that delete all my applications? |
| 21:58.04 | trumee | Sicelo: still not very happy, http://www.pastie.org/2806869 |
| 21:58.47 | trumee | Sicelo: seems it wants to remove kernel-power* packages |
| 21:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: dang! listen!! IT WON'T WORK LIKe THIS! |
| 21:59.15 | Sicelo | i dunno any further |
| 21:59.37 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: why not? |
| 21:59.45 | DocScrutinizer | when multiboot comes with KP48 then you can not install KP47 |
| 21:59.57 | DocScrutinizer | multiboot has "kernels built in" |
| 22:00.41 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: right, but isnt KP independent of multiboot? |
| 22:00.45 | DocScrutinizer | you are trying to force your system into bricked state and complain it doesn't work |
| 22:00.59 | DocScrutinizer | NO, IT IS NOT |
| 22:01.05 | trumee | this seems to be ok, apt-get -s install multiboot-kernel-power kernel-power=1:2.6.28-10power47 kernel-power-modules=1:2.6.28-10power47 |
| 22:01.38 | rly | Sicelo: it says that HAM is running, please exit it and press enter... but it isn't running. |
| 22:02.03 | rly | What is the binary name of HAM? |
| 22:02.13 | rly | Then I can just do killall and be sure it is done. |
| 22:02.41 | Sicelo | don't kill it if u are installing cssu. iirc it says it takes a while |
| 22:04.56 | Sicelo | trumee: it is worth your while to take it as said. unless u want to re-flash |
| 22:05.38 | rly | Sicelo: I also read something about being able to use 720p filming on the device. Is that hoax? |
| 22:05.41 | rly | a hoax? |
| 22:06.25 | Sicelo | apparently not. but i don't use my device for videos, so idk. haven't tried |
| 22:07.22 | rly | Does anyone know which package enabled 720p filming? |
| 22:07.33 | rly | enables* |
| 22:07.58 | DocScrutinizer | HAM running? wait til it finished |
| 22:08.22 | DocScrutinizer | can take 5..10 min |
| 22:08.32 | rly | DocScrutinizer: did that and the upgrade worked, but now it is just apparently doing nothing. |
| 22:09.12 | rly | browserd uses 98% cpu again. |
| 22:09.18 | rly | Can I kill that one? |
| 22:09.26 | *** part/#maemo licensed (~licensed@unaffiliated/licensed) |
| 22:09.37 | DocScrutinizer | check your CPU load - as long as some apt-worker is pushing CPU to 100% yu want to wait for it finishing |
| 22:09.50 | DocScrutinizer | yes, kill browserd |
| 22:10.38 | rly | Is there some replacement/update for browserd? |
| 22:10.48 | rly | I already killed it three times today. |
| 22:10.56 | DocScrutinizer | and say "thank you" to the designer of that webpage with flash/JS |
| 22:11.19 | rly | DocScrutinizer: all flash causes that or just some flash? |
| 22:11.34 | DocScrutinizer | some poorly written JS and some flash |
| 22:11.45 | DocScrutinizer | most flash |
| 22:11.57 | rly | But I wasn't even running a browser anymore. |
| 22:12.05 | DocScrutinizer | flash doesn't stop when the browser loses focus |
| 22:12.05 | rly | Or does it keep running in the background? |
| 22:12.12 | rly | Why not?! |
| 22:12.18 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 22:13.31 | DocScrutinizer | maybe to make your youtube music not stop while you check mail/whatever? |
| 22:14.21 | rly | DocScrutinizer: but if I kill the browser window including youtube, then youtube also stops. |
| 22:14.35 | DocScrutinizer | :shrug: |
| 22:14.46 | rly | So, to have something in the background running when nothing is visually there, that doesn't make sense. |
| 22:14.57 | DocScrutinizer | orly? |
| 22:15.06 | DocScrutinizer | killall browserd |
| 22:15.20 | NIN101 | ..but not as root :-). |
| 22:15.23 | DocScrutinizer | and get cpu load applet! |
| 22:15.35 | rly | DocScrutinizer: I am not following. |
| 22:15.59 | rly | DocScrutinizer: I am a screen user, if you think I don't know the usefulness of running stuff truly in the background. |
| 22:16.14 | rly | (or the tons of other daemons that do something useful on a real system) |
| 22:16.22 | DocScrutinizer | I am not the browserd developer |
| 22:16.39 | rly | DocScrutinizer: ok, I thought you where making some point. |
| 22:16.42 | DocScrutinizer | so no use in arguing with me about usefulness of brwserd behaviour |
| 22:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | it's a "known" problem |
| 22:17.21 | DocScrutinizer | at least I know it |
| 22:17.32 | DocScrutinizer | also from my desktop PC |
| 22:18.02 | rly | So, has Nokia completely burned all maemo code and are they going Windows only, or is that just a marketing gimmick? |
| 22:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | on my desktop I frequently kill nspluginviewer processes, on N900 sometimes I need to killall nrowserd |
| 22:18.36 | DocScrutinizer | browserd* |
| 22:19.33 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: why not as root? |
| 22:19.41 | rly | Upgrade complete \o/ |
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| 22:21.19 | NIN101 | DocScrutinizer: well it rebooted my device, but it was -9. |
| 22:21.35 | DocScrutinizer | umm |
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| 22:31.30 | NIN101 | interesting, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=926k0ih6 you need to do it several times. |
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| 22:32.46 | NIN101 | until it reboots. |
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| 22:53.35 | DocScrutinizer | dsmetool? yeah that's known |
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| 23:29.49 | DocScrutinizer | NIN101: dsmetool --help -> >> -t --start-restart=<cmd> Start a process (on process exit, restart max N times, then do SW reset)<< also see -c --max-count=N and -T --count-time=N |
| 23:31.06 | NIN101 | DocScrutinizer: thx. |
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| 23:46.01 | Hurrian | i've been wondering about /sbin/preinit on the n900 |
| 23:46.28 | Hurrian | a large part of it is a bootmenu |
| 23:46.39 | Hurrian | which we never see on the n900 |
| 23:46.51 | Hurrian | and all it seems to actually do is mount filesystems and boot |
| 23:59.28 | Robot101 | how can I play speex files on the n900? |
| 23:59.52 | SpeedEvil | mplayer would be an option. |