| 00:08.49 | jonwil | anyone here good with autoconf/automake who can take a look at my makefiles and see why they arent doing what I want? |
| 00:08.55 | jonwil | Relavent bits are at http://www.cncmods.net/files/cbspatch.zip |
| 00:10.02 | jonwil | I just cant get it to output the cbspatch binary :( |
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| 00:15.47 | cehteh | jonwil: i am to lazy to download/unzip it, may you paste the relevent parts to a pastebin? |
| 00:18.13 | jonwil | http://pastebin.com/zrVCsWn8 |
| 00:18.21 | jonwil | Thats got the 3 relavent files pasted into it |
| 00:18.33 | jonwil | or what should be the relavent files |
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| 00:28.49 | cehteh | eek SUBDIRS= :P |
| 00:29.49 | cehteh | jonwil: noinst_PROGRAMS = cbspatch |
| 00:30.02 | cehteh | instead cbspatch_PROGRAMS = |
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| 00:30.56 | jonwil | Is that what I want if I am using dpkg to package this binary up? |
| 00:31.11 | cehteh | nope .. you asked for building it :) |
| 00:31.11 | jonwil | or whatever the command is |
| 00:31.18 | cehteh | well bin_PROGRAMS then? |
| 00:31.21 | jonwil | ok |
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| 00:31.35 | jonwil | ok, bin_PROGRAMS it is |
| 00:31.38 | cehteh | note: i dont know about package building |
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| 00:31.46 | cehteh | just a bit of autotools |
| 00:32.19 | jonwil | I just need to know what the right statement is for that so that the binary will end up in /usr/bin if I did a "make install" |
| 00:32.24 | jonwil | then the dpkg bits should do the rest |
| 00:32.54 | cehteh | yes bin_PROGRAMS then |
| 00:33.33 | jonwil | ok |
| 00:33.44 | jonwil | so bin_PROGRAMS causes output to go to /usr/bin and not /bin? |
| 00:36.09 | cehteh | $prefix/bin |
| 00:36.14 | cehteh | whatever your prefix is |
| 00:36.34 | cehteh | by default its /usr/local .. but i bet debian package sets it to /usr |
| 00:38.35 | jonwil | ok |
| 00:39.34 | jonwil | ok, I did things and its now just saying "make: nothing to be done for 'all'" |
| 00:39.48 | jonwil | with bin_PROGRAMS set |
| 00:40.06 | jonwil | just running normal make, not dpkg stuff |
| 00:40.14 | jonwil | having re-run automake etc |
| 00:40.27 | cehteh | normally not (if yes then your packaging is broken) |
| 00:40.38 | cehteh | oh well .. using SUBDIRS= is broken :P |
| 00:40.55 | cehteh | but check if it created the binary |
| 00:41.07 | cehteh | in the build dir (or some subdir, depending on the setup) |
| 00:41.15 | jonwil | it didnt create the binary |
| 00:42.29 | cehteh | sorry i avoid recursive builds .. to much pita |
| 00:42.38 | jonwil | when I run autoreconf to do the autoconf bits, it says "unused variable: cbspatch_SOURCES" |
| 00:42.49 | cehteh | rather doing a include for sub makefiles |
| 00:42.56 | cehteh | yes |
| 00:43.24 | cehteh | eh what have you now? |
| 00:43.29 | cehteh | some typo? |
| 00:43.35 | cehteh | pastebin it |
| 00:43.38 | jonwil | ok |
| 00:44.29 | jonwil | http://pastebin.com/5Hm8JVYc |
| 00:44.40 | jonwil | thats the makefile as it looks bnow |
| 00:44.42 | jonwil | now |
| 00:44.59 | jonwil | duh, bin_PROGAMS? |
| 00:45.02 | jonwil | bah :P |
| 00:45.28 | jonwil | lets see if this does something now |
| 00:45.45 | cehteh | haha and not 2 underscores |
| 00:45.58 | cehteh | at __SOURCES and __CFLAGS |
| 00:46.40 | jonwil | ok, trying again |
| 00:46.53 | jonwil | now it doesnt tell me "unused variable blah" |
| 00:47.00 | jonwil | so it should build |
| 00:48.06 | jonwil | we have a binary :) |
| 00:48.10 | jonwil | thanks for your help |
| 00:49.15 | jonwil | now the packaging should grab the binary |
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| 02:03.07 | SpeedEvil | Okaay. Has anyone seen a thing where the phone will not properly respond to touch events - it responds to the first click, then acts like the button is held down. |
| 02:03.31 | SpeedEvil | I don't think it's hardware, as if I lock, and unlock, a new event is generated at the right screen location. |
| 02:11.44 | GeneralAntilles | N900? |
| 02:13.34 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 02:13.51 | SpeedEvil | And yes - reflash is the simple answer which gets more complex without a USB port |
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| 02:34.49 | jonwil | If this displays the right output, I think we are good to go with cell broadcast SMS :) |
| 02:36.06 | jonwil | YES, its displaying an incoming cell broadcast |
| 02:36.20 | jonwil | all the packaging and patching seems to be WORKING at last |
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| 03:09.08 | SpeedEvil | Woo! |
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| 03:40.00 | orangey | jonwil: what are you making? |
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| 03:40.25 | jonwil | stuff for cell broadcast SMS |
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| 03:40.39 | orangey | I figured from what you were saying.. |
| 03:40.44 | orangey | what kind of stuff? |
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| 03:41.25 | jonwil | basically what I have now is a program that replaces the operator name widget and displays the tower name/ID as sent by the tower |
| 03:41.29 | jonwil | if the tower sends one that is |
| 03:41.46 | orangey | jonwil: nice |
| 03:42.01 | jonwil | works great |
| 03:42.23 | orangey | jonwil: are you on n900 or n9? |
| 03:42.26 | jonwil | N900 |
| 03:42.44 | orangey | I love the n900 |
| 03:43.14 | orangey | I hope something as free comes along before its days are up |
| 03:43.21 | jonwil | yes I hope so too |
| 03:43.33 | orangey | but honestly, if it can live as long as my n810 (still active), then I'm good. |
| 03:43.39 | jonwil | If I was to buy a phone right now, I would go for a Galaxy Nexus |
| 03:43.41 | orangey | I expect a very long life for the n900, though |
| 03:43.48 | orangey | jonwil: agreed. |
| 03:43.55 | orangey | jonwil: though I really, really want a keyboard! |
| 03:43.59 | jonwil | yes |
| 03:44.10 | orangey | the other thing - does ANY phone have anything resembling 'conversations'? |
| 03:44.10 | jonwil | Give me a Galaxy Nexus with a keyboard and it would be great |
| 03:44.16 | orangey | conversations is *amazing* |
| 03:44.32 | jonwil | I dont know, I think the iPhone SMS app may be close |
| 03:44.37 | jonwil | but I havent used it myself |
| 03:44.50 | orangey | not really. it doesn't combine jabber, whatnot into one place |
| 03:45.00 | orangey | unless ios5 has cahnged that |
| 03:45.45 | jonwil | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.23 | orangey | how could nobody else have thought of that? it is amazing |
| 03:47.56 | orangey | anyway, I tried using a friend's android for a few weeks.. and that alone was a huge deal breaker |
| 03:48.11 | orangey | also, the media player was terrible.. no easy way to podcast. even when I did podcast, no easy media player.. |
| 03:48.22 | jonwil | If the Galaxy Nexus is as open as the Nexus S is, it would be a good phone. Nexus S only has an AKM blob for the orientation sensor, a Broadcom blob for WiFi/Bluetooth/GPS, a PowerVR blob for the GPU, an NXP blob for the NFC and a Samsung blob for the cell radio interface |
| 03:48.42 | jonwil | but the nexus S has no keyboard |
| 03:48.43 | orangey | that is a lot of blobs |
| 03:48.46 | jonwil | so its not the phone for me |
| 03:48.56 | jonwil | The N900 has a lot more blobs than that |
| 03:49.05 | orangey | really? |
| 03:49.09 | jonwil | yes |
| 03:49.10 | orangey | tragic |
| 03:49.25 | jonwil | The N900 has many closed-source components |
| 03:49.43 | orangey | I didn't realize |
| 03:50.21 | jonwil | right now though, the most annoying closed-source component is libconnui and libconnui_cell |
| 03:50.34 | orangey | that's what you're working against? |
| 03:50.42 | orangey | isn't that just the cell radio interface? |
| 03:50.44 | jonwil | Thats what I have been reverse engineering |
| 03:51.04 | orangey | what are the implications of your work now? can libconnui be replaced now? |
| 03:51.12 | jonwil | nope, thats not what I am aiming at |
| 03:51.26 | jonwil | basically what you have is the cellular services daemon (CSD) and its plugins |
| 03:51.32 | jonwil | which talk to the cellular modem |
| 03:52.12 | jonwil | One part of my project is to apply a binary patch to the closed-source libsms.so.0.0.0 (which is the low level library used to talk to the cell modem SMS interface) to fix a bug in it |
| 03:52.25 | jonwil | said bug prevented cell broadcast SMSs from being passed up the stack properly |
| 03:53.04 | jonwil | The other part of my project is a replacement for the operator name widget that displays both the operator name and the tower name (if there is a tower name) |
| 03:54.15 | jonwil | This uses dbus to talk to the cellular services daemon |
| 03:54.42 | jonwil | both to listen for status updates (such as change-of-tower and others) and for incoming cell broadcast SMS messages |
| 03:54.57 | jonwil | if it finds one on the right channel (channel 50) it displays it as the tower name |
| 03:55.36 | orangey | what's a cell broadcast sms? |
| 03:55.50 | orangey | is that a message from the operator or something? |
| 03:56.44 | jonwil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_Broadcast |
| 03:56.50 | jonwil | Thats what it is |
| 03:57.02 | jonwil | libconnui and libconnui_cell are libraries that talk dbus to the cellular services daemon and provide an interface that is used by all of the stock connectivity UI |
| 03:57.11 | jonwil | like the dialog for selecting a wifi network |
| 03:57.18 | jonwil | or the phone settings control panel |
| 03:57.28 | jonwil | or the widget that tells you if you are on 2G or 3G and how much signal you have |
| 03:57.35 | jonwil | or the stock operator name widget |
| 03:58.13 | jonwil | now as for my widget, there are 2 things I still want to do to it. The first is I want to find out what to do with cell broadcast messages other than channel 50 and how those should be displayed/handled. |
| 03:58.39 | jonwil | The other issue is that the operator name I get is not correct |
| 03:59.29 | jonwil | What I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to do is to figure out how the stock operator name widget gets the operator name. I know it uses some functions in libconnui_cell to do it |
| 04:00.08 | jonwil | But I cant find out how the operator name widget calls those functions or what those functions do inside |
| 04:00.14 | jonwil | so I cant get the proper operator name |
| 04:01.56 | jonwil | which is why I wish I had the header files or source for libconnui_cell and libconnui :( |
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| 05:07.16 | jonwil | bah, I just cant find anything useful to finish this project off (either the correct operator name or what to do with cell broadcast messages other than channel 60) |
| 05:07.21 | jonwil | channel 50 |
| 05:12.51 | jonwil | I am extremely happy that its actually working and displaying the right cell tower name |
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| 15:53.56 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ -- N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
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| 16:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | ~lolstats |
| 16:17.13 | infobot | total count of lol on #maemo: 10367. Top 3: rm_you -- 543 (5.2%), lcuk -- 447 (4.3%), MohammadAG -- 440 (4.2%) |
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| 16:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | ~:)stats |
| 16:17.59 | infobot | total count of :) on #maemo: 11212. Top 3: KotCzarny -- 1603 (14.3%), Macer -- 790 (7.0%), lardman -- 530 (4.7%) |
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| 16:22.40 | jonwil | ~:Pstats |
| 16:23.01 | jonwil | I think I am finally understanding all the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle |
| 16:23.17 | DocScrutinizer | ~lolstats |
| 16:23.17 | infobot | total count of lol on #maemo: 10367. Top 3: rm_you -- 543 (5.2%), lcuk -- 447 (4.3%), MohammadAG -- 440 (4.2%) |
| 16:23.25 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 16:23.32 | DocScrutinizer | already said that |
| 16:23.34 | jonwil | hopefully if I get some responses to the post I just made to the list, it will help me understand the final pieces I need |
| 16:23.53 | jonwil | and I will be able to obtain the exact same operator name in 100% of cases |
| 16:24.14 | DocScrutinizer | cool |
| 16:25.04 | DocScrutinizer | just wonders why there's no such thing like SMS-CB on 3G |
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| 16:38.07 | jonwil | there is, its just that most operators and equipment doesn't support it |
| 16:38.23 | jonwil | or doesn't support the channel 50 tower id stuff |
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| 16:40.49 | DocScrutinizer | nah, here there's not a single SMS-CB on my carrier's UMTS net |
| 16:41.10 | DocScrutinizer | so they didn'T think it's worth supporting it, it seems |
| 16:42.31 | DocScrutinizer | which is strange enough, as their SIM STK uses chan 210(?) coords sent by 2G to calculate whether nobile is inside the homezone or not |
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| 16:43.37 | jonwil | how does that homezone work on 3G then? |
| 16:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | maybe due to per-def finer granularity of 3G BTS this feature isn't needed anymore, and they just define homezone area by a set of BTS |
| 16:43.40 | jonwil | or does it not? |
| 16:43.46 | jonwil | oh ok |
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| 16:44.49 | DocScrutinizer | though, on second thought, this doesn't make a lot of sense, as they could've done same on 2G |
| 16:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | err, what I mean is: also 2G only sends coords of BTS, so why would they not need same for 3G |
| 16:46.30 | DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps |
| 16:46.31 | infobot | it has been said that rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP |
| 16:46.33 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 16:46.40 | chem|st | lol would be funny as some AP gives a location return about 300km away from its actual pos if using 3g instead of 2g |
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| 16:47.33 | chem|st | I cannot get a fix where I am atm as the APdb gives a wrong location and the cache never matches... |
| 16:47.41 | SpeedEvil | I've been somewhat tempted to send to my cell-provider a data protection Subject Access request. |
| 16:47.47 | chem|st | for 3g that is |
| 16:47.48 | SpeedEvil | To get a copy of all the data they hold on me. |
| 16:48.20 | DocScrutinizer | "hold" is a fuzzy term |
| 16:48.23 | SpeedEvil | Including for exmple what location records are held. |
| 16:48.34 | SpeedEvil | They're required to give it all up. |
| 16:49.01 | SpeedEvil | Unless I'm the subject of an ongoing police enquiry. |
| 16:49.08 | DocScrutinizer | I guess they'd claim they don't 'hold' that info as there's no standard way to query it via user interface |
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| 16:50.44 | SpeedEvil | Not legally acceptable. |
| 16:51.15 | DocScrutinizer | much similar to routing tables in internet routers have some info of your actual location but that'S not commonly accessible |
| 16:52.14 | DocScrutinizer | it's system processing data considered temporary and not meant to get stored permanently to some database that is kept |
| 16:52.38 | SpeedEvil | Not so much interested in transient data. |
| 16:52.44 | SpeedEvil | Just what's stored. |
| 16:53.00 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I doubt they stor location server records |
| 16:53.17 | DocScrutinizer | or well, maybe they do. Dunno |
| 16:53.42 | DocScrutinizer | if they do, they do evil |
| 16:54.32 | DocScrutinizer | at least here in Germany. They aren't even allowed to store DHCP leases |
| 16:54.48 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 16:55.35 | SpeedEvil | Germany is a bit paranoid though. |
| 16:55.43 | DocScrutinizer | "only data that's needed for account balancing" |
| 16:55.56 | SpeedEvil | (Which isn't a bad thing) |
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| 16:57.47 | DocScrutinizer | gvmt is lobotomized here - one half wants to store *everything* and forever, while the other half wants to erase everything the moment it's no more needed. And then there's of course the debate who defines what's "needed" |
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| 17:04.33 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.internet4jurists.at/gesetze/vo_uevo01.htm it's not only that the provider mustn't have a means to notice if some law enforcement entity is using that interface to eavesdrop and check meta-data, it's actually even mandatory that not even concurrent access by several such entities is detectable by any of the parties |
| 17:05.37 | DocScrutinizer | not even big brother can tell if big brother is watching XY |
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| 17:21.42 | Sazpaimon | ive never used skype on my N900 until today |
| 17:21.50 | Sazpaimon | and wow, I never realized how seamless it was |
| 17:21.58 | Yuyuko | skype is satan's cock |
| 17:22.04 | Yuyuko | are you a mountaintop, Sazpaimon? |
| 17:22.13 | Yuyuko | because you sure as hell don't look like one |
| 17:22.17 | Yuyuko | combust hemp every solar rotation |
| 17:22.49 | Sazpaimon | skype is "my girlfriend can call her mom in the dominican republic because ive had $6 in my skype account for the last 3 years" |
| 17:24.32 | FIQ|n900 | hm |
| 17:25.14 | FIQ|n900 | Something is strange with the phone functionality when calling people that has something that i THINK is called a "Funtone" |
| 17:25.27 | FIQ|n900 | At least it's marketed as that in our country |
| 17:25.43 | *** join/#maemo Berlinermauer (~berlinerm@i59F4A9D8.versanet.de) |
| 17:25.51 | FIQ|n900 | Something that sounds when you call them during the process |
| 17:26.11 | FIQ|n900 | The ringing beep doesn't stop when this is active, and the other one answers |
| 17:26.17 | FIQ|n900 | it just continues on forever |
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| 17:58.37 | FIQ|n900 | Hmm |
| 17:59.04 | FIQ|n900 | I wonder, would it work to map F1-F6 to shift+fn+number? |
| 17:59.13 | FIQ|n900 | and F9-F12 on 7-0 |
| 17:59.30 | FIQ|n900 | on N900 |
| 17:59.52 | FIQ|n900 | F7-F8 already exists - the volume keys |
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| 18:41.52 | FIQ|n900 | uh |
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| 18:51.35 | DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: that's SIP (sipgate.de) for me |
| 18:52.33 | FIQ|n900 | Tried the command in the wiki about changing the layout to see if there was any difference... but the command didn't work at all? |
| 18:52.41 | FIQ|n900 | "Illegal map name '(nokia_vndr/rx-51(us)):' in symbols name 'nokia_vndr/rx-51(common)+nokia_vndr/rx-51(ru)+nokia_vndr/rx-51(nokia_vndr/rx-51(us)):2+inet(evdev)'" |
| 18:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | for F-keys usually <ESC>+<number> works as well |
| 18:53.33 | DocScrutinizer | s/usually/often/. |
| 18:53.38 | FIQ|n900 | ..and if I don't have ESC? |
| 18:53.57 | DocScrutinizer | too bad |
| 18:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | though you could argue your app needs a better hildonization then |
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| 19:11.16 | BluesLee | anyone online who has both devices n9 and n900? |
| 19:11.38 | mgedmin | waves hesitantly |
| 19:12.27 | BluesLee | mgedmin: can you tell me what you miss on the n9 besides hw restrictions like hw kbd etc? |
| 19:12.45 | mgedmin | apps like PasswordSafe and FuelLog |
| 19:12.55 | mgedmin | surprisingly I don't miss the hw kbd! |
| 19:13.08 | mgedmin | the upsides of the n9 outweigh the lack of a hw kbd |
| 19:13.21 | BluesLee | thats fine |
| 19:13.26 | mgedmin | I also expected to be very irritated by the cross-hatch patterns of the pentile AMOLED screen, but I'm not |
| 19:13.55 | mgedmin | again, the upsides outweigh the downsides (for me, personally) |
| 19:14.11 | BluesLee | mgedmin: i would miss a cron like app like alarmed |
| 19:15.14 | BluesLee | mgedmin: any drawbacks/limitations concerning openness so far? |
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| 19:15.39 | mgedmin | people like to complain about aegis in #harmattan |
| 19:15.46 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 19:15.48 | mgedmin | I personally haven't suffered (yet?) |
| 19:15.50 | SpeedEvil | It impacts sme apps. |
| 19:15.54 | SpeedEvil | sme |
| 19:15.57 | SpeedEvil | sme |
| 19:16.00 | SpeedEvil | some |
| 19:16.19 | mgedmin | oh, the inability to create shell scripts in ~/bin was annoying |
| 19:16.51 | BluesLee | mgedmin: why that? |
| 19:16.57 | SpeedEvil | Some of it's just barking mad. |
| 19:17.11 | mgedmin | aegis doesn't let you exec any binaries that aren't cryptographically signed or something |
| 19:17.13 | SpeedEvil | You can make the flash LED flash, but not the indicator one. |
| 19:17.20 | BluesLee | mgedmin: i mean where you put your scripts to? |
| 19:17.25 | mgedmin | but you can sh /path/to/script, or alias script='sh /path/to/script' |
| 19:17.37 | mgedmin | it doesn't matter where you put the scripts, aegis doesn't let you run them :) |
| 19:18.02 | BluesLee | not directly but "sh binary" works? |
| 19:18.10 | mgedmin | sh binary? no; sh script yes |
| 19:18.38 | mgedmin | I believe /lib/ld-linux.so /path/to/binary doesn't work either |
| 19:18.51 | mgedmin | (the kernel doesn't let you mmap an executable page from a file that lacks a crypto signature) |
| 19:19.10 | BluesLee | okay, i guess i have to read mor about aegis or whatever |
| 19:19.37 | mgedmin | in short, if you want to run something, you need to package it as a deb |
| 19:19.40 | BluesLee | no chance to turn it off?:-) |
| 19:19.55 | mgedmin | thankfully you are allowed to install arbitrary .deb's created without having access to nokia's private keys |
| 19:20.18 | ShadowJK | though you can't get all permissions, right? |
| 19:20.31 | BluesLee | that is a bad workaround i mean just for quick hacking a shell script |
| 19:20.32 | mgedmin | dunno about that |
| 19:20.48 | mgedmin | for quick shell scripts I use aliases, like I said |
| 19:21.01 | Sicelo | what about 'aegis-free' kernel? anyone tried it on n9 yet? |
| 19:21.10 | mgedmin | people are working on it, afaiu |
| 19:21.27 | mgedmin | someone mentioned something on this topic in #harmattan a couple of hours ago, I think |
| 19:21.29 | ShadowJK | is there a flasher for N9 yet? |
| 19:21.33 | BluesLee | its a matter of time, i trust the community:) |
| 19:21.35 | mgedmin | haven't seen one |
| 19:21.46 | ShadowJK | i guess that's an issue, heh. |
| 19:21.46 | mgedmin | but I heard that an OS upgrade is coming "in the last quarter of 2011" |
| 19:22.47 | Sicelo | 0.o no flasher? |
| 19:23.12 | SpeedEvil | If you boot harmattan with a non-aegis kernel, much doesn't work properly. |
| 19:23.49 | mgedmin | SpeedEvil, examples, please! |
| 19:23.51 | mgedmin | I'm curious |
| 19:23.53 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, for example, incoming messages aren't stored, as the aegisfs filesystem has become readonly |
| 19:23.54 | mgedmin | can you use Maps or Drive? |
| 19:24.01 | mgedmin | ooh, incoming messages, ouch |
| 19:24.24 | ShadowJK | even with aegis, if you swap sim card you lose messages |
| 19:24.42 | SpeedEvil | Ah - yes |
| 19:24.45 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy |
| 19:24.54 | ShadowJK | in many ways N9 is 5 steps backwards software-wise :/ |
| 19:25.04 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 19:25.39 | ShadowJK | instead of dualsim, it sabotages sim-swapping :)) |
| 19:26.40 | mgedmin | just using microSIM instead of miniSIM sort of sabotages sim swapping... |
| 19:26.47 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 19:26.53 | ShadowJK | that too :) |
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| 19:29.11 | Sicelo | this aegis is bad news indeed. no usb hostmode possibility if disabled, and doubtful if it can work well with it enabled |
| 19:30.01 | kerio | SpeedEvil: what the fuck |
| 19:30.03 | kerio | really? |
| 19:30.04 | kerio | :| |
| 19:30.16 | Sicelo | ah, my bad. misunderstood the link |
| 19:30.35 | kerio | great, the n9 is crap |
| 19:30.56 | mgedmin | but such beautiful crap |
| 19:31.00 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 19:31.20 | mgedmin | "no wifi. less space than a nomad." |
| 19:31.31 | BluesLee | damn, aegis is not good for us |
| 19:31.34 | ShadowJK | oh I forgot about the wifi thing :) |
| 19:31.37 | SpeedEvil | It's unclear how possible it is to get harmattan working without aegis in the picture. |
| 19:31.56 | ShadowJK | A lot of work atleast |
| 19:31.57 | BluesLee | if i cant mount a simple image, in many cases i hold my data in images |
| 19:32.36 | ShadowJK | it might be beautiful, but I don't think I'd wanna stare even at beautiful women if someone is twisting my nipples and kicking me in the balls :P |
| 19:33.25 | ShadowJK | I hooe the software issues get fixed :(( |
| 19:33.29 | ShadowJK | hope* |
| 19:33.34 | mgedmin | nobody is doing that |
| 19:33.39 | mgedmin | just putting handcuffs on you :) |
| 19:33.47 | BluesLee | aegis is a real regression |
| 19:33.57 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 19:34.08 | SpeedEvil | If you're just wanting to write games, not really. |
| 19:34.11 | ShadowJK | But knowing past history, I'm waiting on purchasing N9 until I see that the bugs have been fixed :P |
| 19:34.16 | SpeedEvil | Or many 'normal' apps. |
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| 19:35.19 | Sicelo | SpeedEvil, ShadowJK, sorry to interrupt. what can cause n900, when attempting to calibrate battery, to increment 'cycle count since learning' without ever being connected to a charger/usb since full charge? it tends to happen somewhere between 50 and 30% full |
| 19:35.23 | BluesLee | SpeedEvil: the list in the above link is obviously a regression compared to the n900 |
| 19:35.36 | Sicelo | s/upt/upt this conversation./ |
| 19:36.11 | SpeedEvil | Sicelo: no clear thoughts |
| 19:36.42 | BluesLee | nokia nokia nokia |
| 19:37.02 | Sicelo | thanks. i'll investigate further |
| 19:37.37 | BluesLee | you will investigate nokia? good luck:-) |
| 19:37.50 | Sicelo | lol, battery. |
| 19:38.00 | BluesLee | hehe, just a joke |
| 19:38.10 | Sicelo | ;) |
| 19:38.29 | ShadowJK | Sicelo; it would be explained by if it gets incremented same time as total cycle count is incremented |
| 19:42.04 | Sicelo | well, i am not too sure if that increments as well, but i find it strange that count since learning should increase without input power of any sort |
| 19:42.47 | Sicelo | i'd assume total cycles is incremented as well |
| 19:43.57 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: cycle count gets incremented on completing a 100% total of charge+discharge. So this can happen any time |
| 19:46.51 | DocScrutinizer | I guess a cycle is defined as full charge + full discharge, so count increment will happen during discharge |
| 19:47.11 | Sicelo | hmm. i remember u mentioning that a while ago. |
| 19:48.04 | Sicelo | so, even if edv1 goes to 1, when vdq was 1 too, cycle count since learning will not necessarily become 0? |
| 19:48.19 | Sicelo | or 1.. |
| 19:49.28 | ShadowJK | it'll become 0 |
| 19:49.33 | DocScrutinizer | completing a learning cycle should result in cycles-since-learning get reset to zero afaik, maybe 1. For exact definition of sequence of conditions met to complete a valid learning cycle please refer to datasheet |
| 19:49.34 | ShadowJK | but it probably gets incremented same time as total |
| 19:49.42 | ShadowJK | it'd save a computationally expensive counter register that way :P |
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| 19:50.20 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 19:51.17 | DocScrutinizer | as those values aren't meant to be of any significant relevance for any process, they aren't that precisely defined and implemented |
| 19:52.34 | DocScrutinizer | though I really question the rationale behind counting 20 timed discharge to 95% and recharge to 100% as equal to one discharge to 0% and subsequent charge |
| 19:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | times* |
| 19:53.13 | ShadowJK | :P |
| 19:53.53 | ShadowJK | Even the battery cell manufacturer probably doesn't have algorithms or tables to recalculate that into equivalent-full-cycles :) |
| 19:54.06 | DocScrutinizer | yep, that'S what I meant by "precisely defined" |
| 19:54.36 | DocScrutinizer | it's a ballpark figure value to give an idea about something |
| 19:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | not more |
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| 19:56.30 | DocScrutinizer | if you need better values, more precise and "real" ones, you want to go for e.g the chip used in N9 which does true battery impedance evaluation and thus gives a real value about some relevant battery status |
| 19:57.44 | DocScrutinizer | it will actually detect a crappy cell when it goes nuts. Not rely on "duh, 500 cycles should be OK'ish for a LiIon cell" |
| 19:58.18 | ShadowJK | I'd never thought that the total cycle count would be (ab)used as a battery health meter :) |
| 19:58.39 | DocScrutinizer | actually nobody does that |
| 19:58.50 | DocScrutinizer | except Sicelo ? ;-P |
| 19:59.02 | ShadowJK | no he isn't looking at total cycle count. |
| 19:59.23 | DocScrutinizer | right |
| 20:00.36 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you've noticed I augmented my original bq27k-detail script to work on N900 as well? |
| 20:00.44 | ShadowJK | nop |
| 20:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | still needs bash X-P |
| 20:01.10 | ShadowJK | do you have decoding now too? |
| 20:01.23 | DocScrutinizer | status bit decoding? Yup |
| 20:01.26 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 20:01.32 | ShadowJK | and the rest |
| 20:01.46 | ShadowJK | iirc there were some eeprom values left to decode that I didn't finish |
| 20:01.54 | DocScrutinizer | err, the rest? the 1) and 2) 3.57uVfoo? |
| 20:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | I think I got all, incl temperature to °C and °F |
| 20:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | (°F without decimals ;-P) |
| 20:04.05 | DocScrutinizer | name is bq27k-detail2 |
| 20:04.38 | *** join/#maemo tzorvas (~tzorvas@unaffiliated/tzorvas) |
| 20:04.55 | DocScrutinizer | might add true cmdline argument parsing plus terse output mode eventually |
| 20:05.33 | DocScrutinizer | plus proper check for i2ctools available (actually I think it doesn't behave nice when i2ctools missing) |
| 20:05.45 | ShadowJK | and then fix all the bashisms? ;P |
| 20:05.54 | DocScrutinizer | nah, I refuse |
| 20:05.57 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 20:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | not going to implement arrays the manual way |
| 20:06.54 | DocScrutinizer | (which os the only bashism left over I think) |
| 20:06.59 | DocScrutinizer | is* |
| 20:07.15 | ShadowJK | i didn't know you could do bitops in sh :D |
| 20:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | there are a couple more but those are for clean coding only |
| 20:07.49 | DocScrutinizer | err, you can't? |
| 20:07.56 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 20:08.12 | ShadowJK | that's what I thought |
| 20:08.21 | DocScrutinizer | didn't think $(( $foo & 0x0F )) was a bashism |
| 20:08.33 | ShadowJK | and why I used series of multiplication and division instead :) |
| 20:08.40 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
| 20:08.46 | ShadowJK | I guess I never tried though |
| 20:09.46 | Sicelo | last measured discharge reported by bq27k-detail2 is different from bq27200 script. 1423 and 1419, respectively |
| 20:10.40 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# echo $(( 255 & 0x03f )) |
| 20:10.41 | DocScrutinizer | 63 |
| 20:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | messybox ^^ |
| 20:11.26 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: ummm |
| 20:11.30 | DocScrutinizer | wtf?! |
| 20:11.51 | DocScrutinizer | aah, sure |
| 20:11.51 | ShadowJK | wow |
| 20:12.02 | DocScrutinizer | may be related to 20 vs 22 for RS |
| 20:12.15 | ShadowJK | I use 21, dunno if I updated scripts |
| 20:12.35 | DocScrutinizer | nobody knows for sure, so it's up to you :-D |
| 20:12.43 | ShadowJK | 21 because ssirka (iirc) said that matched closest when they tested an N900 in a jig |
| 20:13.01 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia never was like dripping by here, uttering "twentytwo is it" |
| 20:13.09 | DocScrutinizer | dropping but meh |
| 20:13.43 | ShadowJK | or maybe that was 22, I forget |
| 20:14.36 | ShadowJK | Should update scripts and make a big change to it, and watch the replacement battery thread on tmo getting happy people when their capacity goes up ;P |
| 20:15.02 | ShadowJK | The blue scud is no more :-( |
| 20:15.08 | DocScrutinizer | actually bq27k-detail is using 20 |
| 20:15.12 | Sicelo | the bq27200 i have has RS=20 |
| 20:15.14 | DocScrutinizer | "hardcoded" :-/ |
| 20:15.31 | ShadowJK | probably rounding error then |
| 20:15.37 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 20:16.05 | DocScrutinizer | ~ 1423 / 1419 |
| 20:16.05 | infobot | 1.00281888654 |
| 20:16.18 | DocScrutinizer | ~ 21 / 20 |
| 20:16.18 | infobot | 1.05 |
| 20:16.41 | ShadowJK | I do the intermediate calculations with 3 extra significant digits of precision ;p |
| 20:17.11 | DocScrutinizer | I don't even know how many extra digits I use |
| 20:17.37 | ShadowJK | wait what, bash does floats? |
| 20:17.50 | ShadowJK | ah oops, misread |
| 20:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:18.10 | *** join/#maemo DanielW (~danielw@2a01:198:74b:0:1e6f:65ff:fe21:5f30) |
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| 20:19.10 | DocScrutinizer | so you see why my RS=20 is hardcoded |
| 20:19.32 | ShadowJK | I do value * 3570 / 20 / 1000 |
| 20:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | I was hesitant to do this, for unclear reason |
| 20:20.39 | ShadowJK | So like, the difference becomes that yours is rounded upwards, and mine downwards? |
| 20:20.42 | DocScrutinizer | as actually I think at least bash arithmetics are virtually unlimited digits |
| 20:21.21 | ShadowJK | no wait... |
| 20:21.22 | DocScrutinizer | who cares for those 0.3% |
| 20:21.44 | DocScrutinizer | for such a "precise" value like LMD |
| 20:21.47 | ShadowJK | hehe |
| 20:22.41 | Sicelo | lol |
| 20:23.07 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: nevertheless many thanks for those thorough checks :-) |
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| 20:24.51 | DocScrutinizer | in the end the diff between ShadowJK 's and mine is just mine needs bash but then comes with half of the datasheet as citation, so you can understand more easily what the values mean, while his is better suited for practical everyday usage |
| 20:25.43 | ShadowJK | has the datasheet as comments |
| 20:25.44 | DocScrutinizer | plus of course mine keeps backwards compatibility to rev1 for openmoko devices |
| 20:26.05 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28114.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:26.31 | DocScrutinizer | and it's nicer to read the source ;-P |
| 20:26.57 | ShadowJK | that it's not :P |
| 20:27.07 | DocScrutinizer | (pretty much thanks to bash, admittedly) |
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| 20:27.51 | ShadowJK | man, bitops support. And it was so fun and enjoyable to write it with normal integer arithmetic too :P |
| 20:28.34 | MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1114205 |
| 20:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | beat this: ;-D |
| 20:28.44 | MohammadAG | cc DocScrutinizer |
| 20:28.47 | DocScrutinizer | echo " 0x0A: 0x${dmp[0x0A]}" "FLAGS Status Flags R" |
| 20:28.48 | DocScrutinizer | echo " $(( (0x${dmp[0x0A]} & 2#10000000)?1:0 )) CHGS Charge State flag. A 1 in the CHGS indicates a charge current (VSRP > VSRN). Charging." |
| 20:28.50 | DocScrutinizer | echo " $(( (0x${dmp[0x0A]} & 2#01000000)?1:0 )) NOACT No Activity flag. A 1 indicates that the voltage across RS is ~0. Neither charge nor discharge." |
| 20:28.59 | ShadowJK | unreadable :D |
| 20:31.13 | MohammadAG | Update should be out tomorrow and by Friday for everyone, didn't want to mention that on tmo in case it doesn't happen :P |
| 20:31.29 | ShadowJK | hm, can you do bitshift |
| 20:31.48 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: >> again, please do not try to update WHEN YOU'RE USING CSSU (using apt-get or similar methods).<< |
| 20:31.58 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yes |
| 20:32.05 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, good call |
| 20:32.10 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you can do all the c stuff |
| 20:32.18 | ShadowJK | bah |
| 20:32.20 | ShadowJK | too easy |
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| 20:34.30 | NIN101 | hm. What is this "security control panel applet"? |
| 20:35.16 | DocScrutinizer | also in bashism >> for (( i=startenv++; (i & 2#1000000)>>2 != endvar; i*=2 |
| 20:35.18 | DocScrutinizer | )) |
| 20:35.23 | SpeedEvil | Part of the warranty process. 'Use Ovi Suite to back up your contacts, pictures and other personal data. The device software is updated as part of the repair process and your personal data will be remover.' |
| 20:35.26 | ShadowJK | It probably changes hte password on your gmail, skype, etc without telling you, then reports yourself to the police |
| 20:35.51 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, no backup app anymore? |
| 20:36.07 | NIN101 | well ok :-). |
| 20:36.14 | Sicelo | lol. sounds promising. hope it won't introduce worse issues though |
| 20:36.28 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: There is something wierd going on with input. |
| 20:36.41 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I press the screen, it clicks, then acts like it's held down. |
| 20:37.00 | SpeedEvil | I can synthesise an up-event by locking the device |
| 20:37.07 | SpeedEvil | But it's not actually usable. |
| 20:37.19 | ShadowJK | what device? |
| 20:37.22 | SpeedEvil | In principle I could flash it, but my warranty is about to expire anyway. |
| 20:37.24 | DocScrutinizer | touchpanel defect |
| 20:37.24 | SpeedEvil | n900 |
| 20:37.29 | DocScrutinizer | not unseen |
| 20:37.30 | SpeedEvil | I don't think so. |
| 20:37.31 | ShadowJK | Or screen protector |
| 20:37.38 | SpeedEvil | It's not protector - I pulled it. |
| 20:37.42 | ShadowJK | or dust between the bezel and screen |
| 20:37.45 | ShadowJK | :/ |
| 20:37.50 | SpeedEvil | I don't think so. |
| 20:37.54 | DocScrutinizer | which bezel? |
| 20:37.55 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't act like that. |
| 20:38.01 | DocScrutinizer | this isn't a OM FR |
| 20:38.19 | ShadowJK | the one I accidentally jammed my first screen protector under |
| 20:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | or a N810 |
| 20:38.24 | SpeedEvil | If there was some contact, then locking, unlocking, and presing wouldn't generate a keyclick |
| 20:38.55 | DocScrutinizer | it might be a semi contact between two thresholds |
| 20:39.03 | SpeedEvil | Possibly. |
| 20:39.17 | ShadowJK | I wonder if it uses a higher threshold for mousedown than mouseup |
| 20:39.24 | DocScrutinizer | or simply silicon rotten |
| 20:39.52 | SpeedEvil | ponders desoldering the emmc before sending. |
| 20:39.54 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: tp controller chip DS will tell you |
| 20:39.57 | DocScrutinizer | I guess |
| 20:40.00 | SpeedEvil | Probably not a good plan. :) |
| 20:40.14 | ShadowJK | why would you do that? |
| 20:40.27 | SpeedEvil | 64M in my other n900! |
| 20:40.34 | DocScrutinizer | I guess to practice and protect privacy? |
| 20:40.36 | SpeedEvil | G |
| 20:40.38 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 20:40.40 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 20:41.00 | DocScrutinizer | ~lolstats |
| 20:41.00 | infobot | total count of lol on #maemo: 10371. Top 3: rm_you -- 543 (5.2%), lcuk -- 447 (4.3%), MohammadAG -- 440 (4.2%) |
| 20:41.25 | SpeedEvil | I wish I could get a pile of scrap n900s to play with, for various reasons. |
| 20:41.42 | ShadowJK | There was someoen on tmo selling a dead-cellmo n900 |
| 20:41.44 | DocScrutinizer | that's probably terribly hard |
| 20:41.59 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Unless you can locate the right factory in china. |
| 20:42.06 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 20:42.11 | DocScrutinizer | not even then |
| 20:42.30 | DocScrutinizer | their trashbins have been emptied some 30 months ago |
| 20:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | only chance: see ^^^ ShadowJK |
| 20:43.02 | ShadowJK | I didn't think broken N900s went back to china |
| 20:43.12 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 20:43.15 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: 'recycling is good!' |
| 20:43.20 | DocScrutinizer | why would *anybody* do that? |
| 20:43.39 | DocScrutinizer | sending broken chips to the factory? |
| 20:43.52 | ShadowJK | (besides, it says made in korea on my N900) :-( |
| 20:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | yup, that too |
| 20:44.15 | DocScrutinizer | even Hungary, Finland |
| 20:44.48 | SpeedEvil | There are recycling vendors that do pulls. |
| 20:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | ownta is as much "recycling" as you'll probably ever fimd |
| 20:46.12 | *** join/#maemo Roomerlol (~Roomerlol@95-26-9-220.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 20:46.45 | DocScrutinizer | and you probably could even ask them to find you some CATF00D |
| 20:47.22 | FIQ|n900 | there's a thing i don't understand |
| 20:47.25 | *** join/#maemo swc|666_ (~gecko@65.101.151.78) |
| 20:47.38 | FIQ|n900 | let's say i have a SDHC card with an ext3 file system |
| 20:47.48 | DocScrutinizer | I revently noticed the free fifth (different) speaker they sent me with the 4 I ordered is actually a earpiece transducer it seems |
| 20:48.00 | FIQ|n900 | while inserting in N900, hildon will report "not supported" |
| 20:48.05 | *** join/#maemo Ionakka (~lechuck@a91-153-148-243.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:48.09 | FIQ|n900 | but mounting manually works fine |
| 20:48.12 | FIQ|n900 | why...? |
| 20:48.40 | DocScrutinizer | mounting script not prepared to mount ext3 |
| 20:48.56 | *** join/#maemo ricki8024 (~try@82.113.121.98) |
| 20:49.14 | DocScrutinizer | I think there've been community patches to that |
| 20:50.06 | FIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 20:50.46 | ShadowJK | Mounting script roughly does: list partition table: is there 1 partition? N -> abort else: is first partition of type W95FAT32? N-> abort else: try mount first partition as vfat. fail->abort |
| 20:50.56 | merlin1991 | wtf @ ~lolstats |
| 20:51.03 | merlin1991 | defenitely not lol worthy |
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| 20:51.45 | merlin1991 | FIQ|n900: somewhere in the bugzilla on maemo.org is a patch for the mounting script |
| 20:53.46 | *** join/#maemo Tscheesy (~quassel@alfred.neversfelde.de) |
| 20:54.28 | DocScrutinizer | thought as much |
| 20:54.41 | DocScrutinizer | called it "community patch" |
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| 20:56.57 | FIQ|n900 | ah |
| 20:56.59 | FIQ|n900 | nice |
| 20:58.01 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: "is there >0 partitions" |
| 20:58.32 | ShadowJK | somewhat less evil than I remembered then :) |
| 20:58.34 | DocScrutinizer | it mounts my VFAT partition of my uSD with 2.=ext3 3.=swap just fine |
| 20:59.19 | DocScrutinizer | not sure though if the ext3 is really safe ;-P |
| 20:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | well, at least it reports correct size for df |
| 21:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: please make "diginotar" a link to http://www.google.com/search?q=diginotar+hack |
| 21:07.52 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: make "CSSU includes these security fixes" a bold "CSSU already includes these security fixes" |
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| 21:08.59 | DocScrutinizer | "As of version 16.8" -> "As of CSSU version 16.8" |
| 21:09.36 | DocScrutinizer | I know it's bad english, but it's needed for proper pidgin |
| 21:11.38 | DocScrutinizer | "you can update, if you ever" -> "you can update. If you ever" |
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| 21:52.14 | Macer | hello |
| 21:56.44 | HyperSnyper | anyone tried these sticker/protectors for the n900 > http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/192-7121461-2650617?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=n900+sticker&x=0&y=0 |
| 21:59.11 | ShadowJK | I use the viquiti (3M) ones |
| 22:00.22 | Macer | i cant find a good rubber skin for mine |
| 22:00.34 | Macer | well.. for mine that is still on its way |
| 22:00.55 | ShadowJK | the mugen back door is kinda rubbery |
| 22:00.59 | Macer | i like the silicon soft rubber skins if i can find one that fits right |
| 22:01.08 | ShadowJK | kinda hard on a sliding keyboard though :) |
| 22:01.13 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@ool-44c62415.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:01.25 | Macer | they slide ;) |
| 22:01.38 | Macer | i will look once i get my n900 |
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| 22:01.51 | Macer | i got one but you can tell it was a cheap made in china one |
| 22:02.00 | Macer | that barely fit |
| 22:02.01 | Macer | it was too big |
| 22:02.14 | Macer | i mean it workked... i supposed |
| 22:02.19 | Macer | suppose |
| 22:02.34 | Macer | but it was obviously not very form fitting. |
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| 22:51.51 | GuySoft | hey all, - how does one change the e-mail on bugs.maemo.org? I cant find any option in the account prefs |
| 22:53.22 | andre__ | GuySoft, https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email |
| 22:53.49 | andre__ | err, changing the email *address* is on https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=account |
| 23:04.38 | GuySoft | andre__, thanks, i did not see it had an e-mail field in that page |
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| 23:04.52 | andre__ | np |
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