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| 01:18.31 | SpeedEvil | How do I shut down my n900 from commandline? |
| 01:18.55 | SpeedEvil | It's on the other side of the room, and is beeping due to low bat. |
| 01:19.37 | RST38h | "shutdown" ? |
| 01:19.42 | RST38h | "reboot" ? |
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| 01:27.06 | SpeedEvil | shutdown - no |
| 01:27.19 | SpeedEvil | reboot works - but I think it'll come back up |
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| 01:37.39 | jiero | hi, I just recording a video on my Linux Desktop and found its really slow to encoding. That I had an idea, could N900 capture desktop in the video in real time? |
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| 02:01.51 | TiagoTiago | if you reboot it too many times in a row it won't come back, right? |
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| 02:25.57 | DocScrutinizer | init 6 ? |
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| 02:26.47 | DocScrutinizer | poweroff seems to do roughly what you asked for ;-) |
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| 02:27.23 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ^^^ |
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| 02:45.41 | DocScrutinizer | though probably you found the cmdline way to charge it without plugging it to a charger meanwhile :-D |
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| 03:03.15 | yigal | did anyone buy an htc flyer today from best buy $300? |
| 03:03.31 | jiero | HTCï¼ |
| 03:03.48 | yigal | I wonder if ubuntu or a full open source os can be put on there |
| 03:04.00 | yigal | if it can I'm going to make the plunge |
| 03:05.05 | yigal | I mean the main reason I want a device like this is for reading and taking notes with a pen, and this device would do it I'm kind of excited |
| 03:07.26 | yigal | ya I'm sorry talking about non Nokia products on this channel how dare I |
| 03:07.28 | yigal | lol |
| 03:08.43 | jiero | I just don't know any other phones. |
| 03:08.50 | jiero | so I bought N900 |
| 03:09.03 | yigal | well that's pretty sad |
| 03:10.10 | jiero | well |
| 03:10.22 | jiero | let your life simple is good. |
| 03:10.35 | jiero | have more time do more |
| 03:10.37 | psycho_oreos | yigal, there's #android (or ##android) |
| 03:10.54 | yigal | psycho_oreos: I don't want android on the htc flyer |
| 03:11.18 | yigal | psycho_oreos: if I buy it, it is because there is a good chance I can set it up like an n800 |
| 03:11.23 | jiero | yigal: then go #htc |
| 03:11.29 | psycho_oreos | yigal, its got nothing to do with #maemo |
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| 03:11.33 | psycho_oreos | that's the bottom line |
| 03:12.07 | yigal | other than the dream of having a full open source OS on a tablet device, I know I generalize too often |
| 03:12.11 | psycho_oreos | and no you can't set it up like N800 without somehow working with a hacked kernel + UI framework and design |
| 03:12.23 | yigal | psycho_oreos: of course |
| 03:12.41 | yigal | psycho_oreos: I'm used to working on the Viliv S5, but the flyer is much more attractive |
| 03:13.05 | yigal | psycho_oreos: Meego worked on the Viliv, and Maemo would've been even nicer |
| 03:13.41 | psycho_oreos | yigal, again I don't see a correlation with HTC flyer doing in maemo channel. Its offtopic |
| 03:15.05 | yigal | yes, I as I said before I like to generalize and enjoy the idea that others in the Maemo community want something similiar to what I want namely a full open source OS on a tablet device |
| 03:15.22 | yigal | but enjoy, enjoy letting me know that what I've said is offtopic |
| 03:15.26 | yigal | you are so correct |
| 03:15.32 | yigal | enjoy your correntness |
| 03:15.37 | psycho_oreos | there's meego channel, its called #meego |
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| 05:05.15 | TiagoTiago | a while ago i had synaptic installed on my N900 for maemo itself (not talking about the one inside EasyDebian, it handled the install/uninstall/upgrade etc of Maemo programs), then later i had to reflash and for some reason i couldn't get EasyDebian to install and i couldn't install Maemo Synaptic, i assumed it was because of the EasyDebian issue, but now on a fresh reflash, i successfully... |
| 05:05.17 | TiagoTiago | ...managed to install EasyDebian, but when i try to install Synaptic for Maemo it won't work, same issue as before, following the chain of depencies leads me to sgml-data which apt-get tells me is unavaiable; any idea how i can get this to work? |
| 05:27.30 | TiagoTiago | would adding the repositories EasyDebian use into HAM's catalog work or sgml-data needs to be ported? |
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| 06:40.08 | TiagoTiago | Woohoo!!! Figured it out! :D |
| 06:40.24 | TiagoTiago | I needed to add the SDK repository to get sgml-data |
| 06:44.01 | TiagoTiago | brb |
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| 06:56.17 | TiagoTiago | back |
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| 07:12.31 | Kowalczyk | MohammadAG: aha. thats right. that was stupid of me. hehhee.. ofc I should have tried that |
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| 07:19.40 | TiagoTiago | i wish i had a robot that knew exactly how i would think in any given situation and a time machine so i could leave it reinstalling all the programs i want, fixing all the issues that might come up, and instantly hand me my N900 back with everything installed and set just the way i want... |
| 07:23.41 | psycho_oreos | its called backupmenu |
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| 07:32.09 | Kowalczyk | http://i.imgur.com/9OFSh.png what is that widget to the left? the one in the middle I know is the rss |
| 07:32.15 | Kowalczyk | psycho_oreos: thanks for the help yesterday btw:) |
| 07:33.29 | Kowalczyk | they should write what they use on the screenshot :) |
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| 07:53.51 | TiagoTiago | if i'm using that technique of running from a copy of rootfs inside home, do i need to install backupmenu on both? |
| 07:54.03 | TiagoTiago | (the original and the copy) |
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| 07:58.40 | Jaffa | Morning, al |
| 07:58.42 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 07:58.55 | psycho_oreos | Kowalczyk, no worries, I guess you figured out how to get the fake animated equaliser thing? |
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| 08:01.57 | amiconn | Kowalczyk: I think it's the ovi maps widget |
| 08:04.15 | psycho_oreos | TiagoTiago, I don't understand what you mean rootfs inside home as in like a chrooted maemo setup? |
| 08:04.53 | TiagoTiago | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59374 |
| 08:05.15 | TiagoTiago | that one (actually the one from Pali a few pages later, but it's mostly the same) |
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| 08:08.49 | TiagoTiago | crap, i think backupmenu might not be compatible... |
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| 08:09.52 | TiagoTiago | i tried installing it in the original and it seems it gets in the way of booting from the copy... |
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| 08:11.33 | MohammadAG | Kowalczyk, maps widget |
| 08:13.31 | amiconn | Is there an echo in here? ;) |
| 08:14.38 | TiagoTiago | not that i've noticed |
| 08:17.02 | TiagoTiago | great, backupmenu fucked things up... |
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| 08:18.20 | TiagoTiago | i should've tried it earlier, before i started instaling things... i hope i can figure out how to repair it without having to start from scratch... |
| 08:18.21 | Sicelo | what happened? |
| 08:18.38 | TiagoTiago | the bootmenu won't load anymore after i uninstalled backup menu |
| 08:19.10 | psycho_oreos | if you have read that thread, it also depends on bootmenu by fanoush |
| 08:19.32 | TiagoTiago | those two aren't compatible? |
| 08:19.58 | Sicelo | TiagoTiago: you are rebooting with keyboard out? |
| 08:20.13 | psycho_oreos | I'd assume it isn't without editing the entries to maybe make sure it does not clash together |
| 08:20.23 | TiagoTiago | yep, that is how i can get to the menu to let me boot from the pivotroot or whatever it's called |
| 08:27.10 | TiagoTiago | i don't wanna have to start over again... |
| 08:27.42 | TiagoTiago | it wasn't too much, relativelly speaking ('cause i install too much stuff, so even a fraction is already kinda alot) |
| 08:27.46 | Kowalczyk | MohammadAG: ok. so the one with the power button at the bottom is maps widget? |
| 08:29.19 | TiagoTiago | it says: line 9: [ 0: not found |
| 08:29.24 | TiagoTiago | but line 9 of what? |
| 08:29.32 | Kowalczyk | psycho_oreos: no I didnt think anymore about it :) since you said it was in the PR1.2 then I just dropped it. |
| 08:29.32 | DocScrutinizer | /kick $USER |
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| 08:30.38 | MohammadAG | Kowalczyk, yes |
| 08:31.11 | Kowalczyk | ok.. didnt find it. when I searched for ovi maps widget |
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| 08:33.46 | TiagoTiago | any idea what i need to modify in the scripts to set things again without overwriting the stuff i did inside the copy? |
| 08:33.50 | Kowalczyk | aha |
| 08:33.53 | Kowalczyk | MohammadAG: it was location |
| 08:33.58 | Kowalczyk | ok. I find it. thank you :D |
| 08:34.33 | Kowalczyk | thanks.. :) |
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| 08:35.04 | TiagoTiago | :( |
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| 08:51.13 | TiagoTiago | brb |
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| 09:26.48 | TiagoTiago | gonna try redoing the thing but copying over the files from a backup instead of startign over |
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| 09:48.39 | TiagoTiago | hm, it doesn't wanna overwrite a few folders.... |
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| 10:02.34 | TiagoTiago | I worry there might be some magic done with the files and folders that is getting lost with me copying things over manually... |
| 10:03.53 | TiagoTiago | worried* |
| 10:05.02 | psycho_oreos | its not called folders under linux, its called directories |
| 10:09.59 | trx | its directories in win too, whats the diff? |
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| 10:12.26 | psycho_oreos | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folder_%28computing%29 |
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| 10:30.55 | TiagoTiago | crap, seems it fucked bootmenu up :/ |
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| 10:55.20 | TiagoTiago | fuck it, i'll reflash and start reinstalling everything again |
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| 11:16.16 | robbiethe1st | TiagoTiago, just reflash your rootfs with a BM-containing image, restore your BM images, ???, profit! |
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| 11:17.11 | TiagoTiago | backupmenu seems incompatible with the pivotrooting or whatever it's called, couldn't get to the boot menu with it, and uninstalling it messed up the boot menu |
| 11:17.58 | robbiethe1st | Evidently, there's some bit of software you have that's incompatible or something screwy's going on |
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| 11:18.28 | robbiethe1st | http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/flashable_rootfs_v0.56-1-20101109.img is what you need, maby |
| 11:18.32 | TiagoTiago | can i have backupmenu AND bootmenu working? |
| 11:18.54 | TiagoTiago | i mean, both functionalities, not just backupmenu |
| 11:19.01 | robbiethe1st | No; backupmenu relies on bootmenu, but steals control over it |
| 11:19.17 | robbiethe1st | ...Oh, I know what you're running into: you need to purge the package |
| 11:19.34 | TiagoTiago | too late, the reflash is already done, i'm starting over |
| 11:19.39 | robbiethe1st | Fair enough |
| 11:20.10 | TiagoTiago | why backupmenu doesn't offer an option of showing the bootmenu that was present before installing backupmenu? |
| 11:20.13 | robbiethe1st | Also, there's a way to make both work together, and some have made it work, but I haven't |
| 11:20.43 | robbiethe1st | Because I can't figure out how to make it work. If I make a "proper" bootmenu module for BM, it just refuses to show my menu. |
| 11:21.04 | robbiethe1st | If I have a "fake" module(which just outright runs BM) it works. |
| 11:21.34 | robbiethe1st | Some people have gotten it to work the other way - editing /etc/bootmenu.d/backupmenu file correctly |
| 11:21.47 | robbiethe1st | But I've tried like 5 times, and couldn't get it to work on my device |
| 11:22.05 | TiagoTiago | I wouldn't even know where to start |
| 11:22.18 | robbiethe1st | Check the topic; there's instructions somewhere in there |
| 11:22.25 | robbiethe1st | I'd try an advanced search |
| 11:24.28 | TiagoTiago | they mention backupmenu a few times, but never say anything about it actually working, there are one or two posts saying they uninstalled it, and somthing else, but i couldn't find anything about being able to have it and the pivotroot thing working together |
| 11:25.12 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-174-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 11:25.18 | robbiethe1st | What pivot_root thing? |
| 11:26.01 | robbiethe1st | I mean, pivot_root is a function that'd let you boot something different... but what are you doing with it |
| 11:26.17 | TiagoTiago | the thing to have a copy of the rootfs on the eMMC and run from it |
| 11:26.31 | TiagoTiago | sec, lemme get you the link to the thread |
| 11:26.34 | robbiethe1st | Oh. Um, may I ask why? |
| 11:26.49 | TiagoTiago | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59374 |
| 11:26.59 | TiagoTiago | so i don't have to worry about rootfs filling up |
| 11:27.30 | TiagoTiago | i'm using Pali's version of the scripts, from a few pages down |
| 11:27.46 | robbiethe1st | Seems to me like just symlinking a few files'd be quicker and faster... |
| 11:28.20 | TiagoTiago | this way i don't have to do anything, just set it once and it puts everything in the eMMC automaticly |
| 11:28.34 | robbiethe1st | Also, I will give you a slight warning: I've had the OptFS EXT2 partition get corrupted about 3 times so far in the last year, completely randomly |
| 11:28.50 | robbiethe1st | So just make sure you keep a backup once in a while |
| 11:33.51 | TiagoTiago | If i was using it the normal way i would have to make backups anyway, since a screwed /home can't be helped by much other than a reflash, no? |
| 11:34.45 | robbiethe1st | Potentially yes; I've had good luck running FSCK manually; it worked at least 1/3 times. |
| 11:35.07 | robbiethe1st | But that did require having USB access to it, something - AFAIK - that's only available with BM currently |
| 11:35.28 | TiagoTiago | or that recue OS thing, no? |
| 11:35.41 | robbiethe1st | Potentially; I've never used it |
| 11:35.56 | robbiethe1st | It should work right provided it has all it's needed files on the rootfs |
| 11:36.08 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B49941.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:36.33 | robbiethe1st | (the UBIFS rootfs appears to be *incredibly* resilliant to forced poweroffs, etc. Like it was designed for.) |
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| 11:48.49 | TiagoTiago | How many less N900 would you expect Nokia would've sold if they treated it as a developer model like the N950 (though still producing as many as necessary to cover whatever demand there would've been) ? |
| 11:49.26 | jiero | N950 is not for selling. |
| 11:51.05 | Venemo | TiagoTiago, a LOT less. |
| 11:52.07 | TiagoTiago | Really? Why do you think that? |
| 11:55.18 | TiagoTiago | I thought most of the people who bought it were the same kind of people that went after the 950 |
| 11:55.29 | bindi | i'd very much like the n950 |
| 11:55.36 | bindi | my n900 is getting old :p |
| 11:55.56 | bindi | i'm not a friend of android really |
| 11:56.07 | bindi | and hw qwerty kb is a must |
| 11:58.22 | TiagoTiago | Even with all its flaws, i still would have a hard time finding some other device i would be satisfied to have as a replacement for my N900 (TBH i haven't checked the specs and other details on the N950 too deeply yet, but it might be a good replacement, not sure) |
| 11:58.48 | Veggen | bindi: for that reason, I got myself an HTC desire z. I lost my n900 at a time when there was no maemo replacement to be had...(and besides, it was in the list of approved purchases at work, which a maemo phone would not be. |
| 11:59.02 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: you can't get a n950 |
| 11:59.07 | SpeedEvil | (commercially) |
| 11:59.41 | TiagoTiago | Really? I thought they were being sold just the same, except with no warranty and other disclaimers about it being only for developers and stuff |
| 12:00.04 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 12:00.12 | SpeedEvil | You absolutely can't (legally) buy one. |
| 12:00.31 | TiagoTiago | that's disapointing... |
| 12:01.15 | SpeedEvil | I do really wonder how many are sitting in a warehouse somewhere. |
| 12:03.08 | TiagoTiago | Is it common for Nokia to give one of the round numbers model names for devices that aren't even gonna be sold, and make the name public? |
| 12:03.47 | *** join/#maemo LaoLang_cool (~LaoLang_c@221.226.175.138) |
| 12:04.02 | LaoLang_cool | hello, maemoer |
| 12:04.27 | LaoLang_cool | I haven't n900, but get much intrested in it |
| 12:06.09 | *** join/#maemo t7^ (~core@119.73.36.185) |
| 12:06.29 | TiagoTiago | I mean, why didn't they just give it a codename and leave the nice sounding model names for products that can take advantage of the marketing benefits of those names? |
| 12:07.47 | Kowalczyk | hi.. sorry to bother you again. but what is this widget at the right bottom corner: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/reepo/screen3_resize.png some sort of fm radio widgeT? have tried to google it but cant find it |
| 12:07.53 | Kowalczyk | the 105.30 ON stuff |
| 12:14.19 | TiagoTiago | How did you learn about the N900 LaoLang_cool ? |
| 12:14.26 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, seems like they have a bunch |
| 12:14.41 | MohammadAG | unless they fixed pycage's first broken device and sent me that |
| 12:14.44 | MohammadAG | which I doubt... |
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| 12:15.35 | woldrich | I can't get my mame games to run smoothly. Not even games such as lady bug, mr do, pacman runs without lags. Do you have to overclock your machine? |
| 12:16.11 | LaoLang_cool | TiagoTiago, heard from others :) I'm using FreeBSD, and like to live in cli apps, so maybe n900 is fit for me |
| 12:16.24 | TiagoTiago | What exactly was the point treating the N950 like this? |
| 12:16.32 | TiagoTiago | LaoLang_cool: I ssee |
| 12:16.43 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: internal politics |
| 12:17.02 | TiagoTiago | SpeedEvil: can you elaborate on that? |
| 12:17.09 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-108-196.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 12:17.35 | TiagoTiago | LaoLang_cool: did you come to this channel with somthing specific in mind or you just wanna lurk a bit and watch the movement? |
| 12:17.37 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: nokia internal politics. |
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| 12:17.42 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 12:18.03 | TiagoTiago | Nothing that became known outside of their walls? |
| 12:19.16 | LaoLang_cool | TiagoTiago, I want to lurk and watch all of your talks about n900 |
| 12:19.36 | ale152 | hello |
| 12:19.47 | TiagoTiago | I see, alright |
| 12:19.48 | ale152 | i'm trying to connect my external ir webcam to my n900 |
| 12:20.10 | ale152 | i'm using h-e-n, but i'm having problems with device node |
| 12:20.11 | woldrich | hmm, perhaps I'm too nerdy, trying to make my n900 into an arcade machine |
| 12:20.36 | LaoLang_cool | I want to run weechat on n900 |
| 12:20.42 | ale152 | after connecting webcam to n900, i can see these new devices in /dev: usbdev1.8_ep00, usbdev1.8_ep81, usbdev1.8_ep82, usbdev1.8_ep83 |
| 12:20.51 | ale152 | but i can't connect to neither of them with mplayer |
| 12:20.53 | LaoLang_cool | and fetchmail + procmail + mutt |
| 12:21.18 | woldrich | why? |
| 12:21.29 | LaoLang_cool | woldrich, me? |
| 12:21.30 | woldrich | I run all that on the server, and just ssh to it |
| 12:21.34 | woldrich | surely that's what you want, no? |
| 12:21.36 | woldrich | yes |
| 12:21.42 | LaoLang_cool | because I use them on my FreeBSD |
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| 12:21.48 | woldrich | â |
| 12:21.51 | LaoLang_cool | I like them |
| 12:22.07 | LaoLang_cool | don't like the ssh way for some reason.. |
| 12:22.14 | LaoLang_cool | want to run them natively |
| 12:22.16 | Sicelo | that's cool LaoLang_cool. there is irssi, mutt, etc in the repos |
| 12:22.17 | LaoLang_cool | ah, and mupdf! |
| 12:22.30 | LaoLang_cool | Sicelo, prefer weechat to irssi :) |
| 12:22.40 | woldrich | yeah, I just thought it would be more useful to run them in a central place where you can access them from anywhere in the world. but that's just me |
| 12:23.15 | LaoLang_cool | woldrich, yes, but here I can't use ssh because the enrivoment of networking around... |
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| 12:24.10 | woldrich | fair enough |
| 12:24.45 | Sicelo | i was just agreeing with u LaoLang_cool. anyway, i don't see weechat in repo, but u can, of course, compile your own |
| 12:28.12 | LaoLang_cool | Sicelo, yes, i will try when I get it! |
| 12:28.41 | LaoLang_cool | n900 has been abandoned, but I think it will long live right? |
| 12:28.45 | LaoLang_cool | -_- |
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| 12:29.55 | TiagoTiago | What are the recomendations for cleaning the battery compartment? i've got a bit of dust or some sort of breadcrumbs or somthing in there (i hope it's somthing like that and not some fungus or somthing) |
| 12:30.00 | jiero | N900 is not supported ... |
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| 12:30.29 | jiero | Why N900 running out battery so fast for phone calling? |
| 12:30.50 | TiagoTiago | there could be all sorts of reasons |
| 12:32.10 | Sicelo | jiero: bad signal, worn out battery, etc |
| 12:32.27 | TiagoTiago | old SIM card |
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| 12:33.07 | SpeedEvil | Solar flares. |
| 12:33.20 | jiero | lol |
| 12:33.45 | SpeedEvil | Do you mean low talk, or standby time? |
| 12:34.01 | jiero | Both. |
| 12:34.58 | TiagoTiago | programs in the background (not necessarilly showing windows), desktop widgets, statusbar widgets |
| 12:35.15 | SpeedEvil | Do you have skype |
| 12:35.43 | Kowalczyk | hi.. sorry to bother you again. but what is this widget at the right bottom corner: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/reepo/screen3_resize.png some sort of fm radio widgeT? have tried to google it but cant find it |
| 12:35.50 | Kowalczyk | the 105.30 ON stuff |
| 12:36.08 | SpeedEvil | I think it's FMtransmitter |
| 12:36.28 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=fm |
| 12:36.49 | Sicelo | Kowalczyk and his widgets ;p |
| 12:37.04 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/simple-fmtx-widget/ |
| 12:37.06 | Kowalczyk | Sicelo: hehe yeah.. I like many of the screenshot but none of them list it :/ |
| 12:37.22 | Kowalczyk | SpeedEvil: thank you.. :d |
| 12:37.39 | SpeedEvil | wishes he could get $.10 per question on IRC. |
| 12:38.15 | Kowalczyk | haha |
| 12:38.16 | LaoLang_cool | which wiget does n900 run, gtk or qt? |
| 12:38.17 | Sicelo | govt would tax you :P |
| 12:38.37 | Kowalczyk | they should list the stuff they have in the tread |
| 12:38.51 | Kowalczyk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36439&highlight=sms+counter&page=1 |
| 12:38.56 | SpeedEvil | Sicelo: I can earn 20 pounds a week without it affecting my benefit, more ifIpay into a personal pension. |
| 12:39.00 | Kowalczyk | many cool desktop here |
| 12:39.20 | SpeedEvil | boggles at the idea of cool desktops. |
| 12:39.26 | SpeedEvil | I want useful desktops. |
| 12:39.30 | MohammadAG | why did I read that as more if it's a personal question |
| 12:39.35 | LaoLang_cool | hello, gtk or qt? :) |
| 12:39.45 | MohammadAG | .NET |
| 12:39.52 | LaoLang_cool | mono... |
| 12:39.57 | MohammadAG | no, stereo |
| 12:40.11 | LaoLang_cool | cool |
| 12:40.19 | LaoLang_cool | will go out to buy one |
| 12:40.21 | MohammadAG | we're hacking surround sound on it |
| 12:40.31 | MohammadAG | but seriously, whatever you want |
| 12:40.37 | MohammadAG | I wish the N9 had the same toolkits |
| 12:40.50 | LaoLang_cool | oh, yes, I mean toolkits |
| 12:40.57 | MohammadAG | Gtk/Qt |
| 12:41.00 | LaoLang_cool | qt or gtk on n900 |
| 12:41.09 | MohammadAG | either one |
| 12:41.11 | LaoLang_cool | both? I heard that gtk is the native support |
| 12:41.19 | MohammadAG | yes, but Qt is styled to look native |
| 12:41.32 | MohammadAG | think of it as GNOME on Ubuntu running KDE apps |
| 12:41.41 | LaoLang_cool | ah, got it |
| 12:41.49 | TiagoTiago | IF money wasn't an obstacle, do you guys expect the community would know how to make a successful successor for the N900, worthy of being called its successor? |
| 12:41.52 | TiagoTiago | If* |
| 12:41.53 | MohammadAG | basically, you get both toolkits and they look the same |
| 12:42.04 | MohammadAG | TiagoTiago, yes |
| 12:42.20 | Ikarus | TiagoTiago: Nokia essentially made one already |
| 12:42.25 | Ikarus | (N950) |
| 12:42.33 | MohammadAG | it can be improved |
| 12:42.42 | Ikarus | also, yes enough people are mad about it |
| 12:42.44 | MohammadAG | USB OTG hardware support, HDMI, better CPU, etc |
| 12:42.50 | Ikarus | MohammadAG: OMAP 4 platform |
| 12:43.05 | MohammadAG | well, yes, that covers everything |
| 12:43.12 | MohammadAG | and throw in a 12MP camera, not that it matters |
| 12:43.28 | MohammadAG | the only thing I wouldn't change is RAM |
| 12:43.29 | LaoLang_cool | where can I get n950? I heard it's for developer only |
| 12:43.34 | Ikarus | heck, some ex-Nokia engineers would even help |
| 12:43.38 | Ikarus | LaoLang_cool: you can't get it |
| 12:43.44 | TiagoTiago | Why big companies don't see that potential in the community and sponsor our dream device? |
| 12:43.51 | LaoLang_cool | Ikarus, bad news |
| 12:44.03 | MohammadAG | you can get the N9 |
| 12:44.06 | Ikarus | TiagoTiago: because it's not the quickest route to a buck |
| 12:44.34 | SpeedEvil | Or they believe it would dilute their 'brand image' |
| 12:44.39 | SpeedEvil | Or spoil their strategy. |
| 12:44.43 | Ikarus | hmhm |
| 12:44.47 | SpeedEvil | Or confuse stockholders. |
| 12:45.06 | Ikarus | thing is that designing a phone is hella expensive |
| 12:45.08 | LaoLang_cool | MohammadAG, n950 has full keyboard, I like fuu keyboard |
| 12:45.23 | MohammadAG | I barely use it |
| 12:45.28 | SpeedEvil | The keyboard on the n900 is better. |
| 12:45.29 | MohammadAG | except for terminal and IRC |
| 12:45.34 | SpeedEvil | IMO |
| 12:45.35 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil++ |
| 12:45.39 | TiagoTiago | Is it still exspensive if you got a bunch of customers working for free to design somthing they will be buying? |
| 12:45.44 | SpeedEvil | The lack of rounded keys make it hard. |
| 12:45.46 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: yes |
| 12:45.48 | MohammadAG | the vkb is way better though |
| 12:45.53 | Ikarus | actually one great thing would be if we could get the physical design of the N900 or N950 and design a new CPU board for it, the mechanical engineering is probably far harder |
| 12:45.56 | MohammadAG | a lot more usable than iOS's keyboard |
| 12:46.09 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: In order to design and construct the hardware, you need a large slice of a million dollars. |
| 12:46.11 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d515288C9.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:46.16 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: hmhm |
| 12:46.16 | SpeedEvil | Probably several. |
| 12:46.21 | MohammadAG | design, you don't need a lot |
| 12:46.26 | SpeedEvil | In order to get to the point where you can order 5000 phones. |
| 12:46.32 | MohammadAG | constructing it, and putting it through production is |
| 12:46.36 | SpeedEvil | Which you need to do to get the costs down. |
| 12:46.37 | TiagoTiago | I forgot, did they do away with the inverted T arrowkeys (which is mean for 3 fingers and not 1 thumb) is is it still a bit awkard in that area? |
| 12:46.51 | Ikarus | MohammadAG: the cost of debugging is also quite high |
| 12:46.52 | TiagoTiago | meant* |
| 12:46.56 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt |
| 12:46.59 | TiagoTiago | or is it* |
| 12:46.59 | MohammadAG | Ikarus, debugging what |
| 12:47.02 | SpeedEvil | 'Why open source hardware is hard' |
| 12:47.04 | MohammadAG | we're still talking hardware |
| 12:47.07 | Ikarus | remember the hardware mostly |
| 12:47.09 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: See above |
| 12:47.17 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Hardware debugging is _HARD_ |
| 12:47.43 | Ikarus | MohammadAG: the documents by TI on the OMAP chips (like any complex CPU) have so many errata and you need to keep up with them |
| 12:47.46 | SpeedEvil | A 'build, crash, gdb, edit' cycle may cost $1500 |
| 12:48.32 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: C) "The chipmaker for the main chip hasn't noticed that their chip doesn't quite do what they say it will do, and the datasheet is wrong." is quite common |
| 12:48.36 | LaoLang_cool | MohammadAG, why "except for terminal and IRC"? |
| 12:48.45 | SpeedEvil | Ikarus: Indeed |
| 12:48.50 | MohammadAG | LaoLang_cool, like to type fast(er) in those |
| 12:48.51 | LaoLang_cool | I'm looking for a phone that good for terminal and irc.. |
| 12:48.57 | MohammadAG | I get good speeds on vkb though |
| 12:49.07 | MohammadAG | but I get 70WPM or so on the hwkb |
| 12:49.14 | SpeedEvil | on the n900? |
| 12:49.16 | Ikarus | LaoLang_cool: still get a used N900 |
| 12:49.22 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, no, 80-90 on that |
| 12:49.26 | SpeedEvil | Wow. |
| 12:49.41 | SpeedEvil | I only hit ~35wpm, and I considered that quite good. |
| 12:50.03 | LaoLang_cool | MohammadAG, you mean that vkb has faster speed on typing than phical keyboard? |
| 12:50.22 | MohammadAG | LaoLang_cool, the vkb on the N9 is much faster than the N900's |
| 12:50.30 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: but a conservative design based on the huge physical package of the N900 might actually be doable |
| 12:50.33 | MohammadAG | but a hwkb is always faster than a vkb one |
| 12:50.42 | LaoLang_cool | MohammadAG, got it |
| 12:50.53 | LaoLang_cool | that's why I like hwkb |
| 12:50.56 | MohammadAG | faster than iOS's or Android's tbh |
| 12:51.11 | TiagoTiago | I've been complemented on my typing speed on my my N900, though it was just regular civilians, i don't really have all that many computer nerd friends to hang with IRL |
| 12:51.51 | TiagoTiago | or is it complimented? how do i spell that? |
| 12:51.55 | MohammadAG | sent a whole composition in 5 minutes without looking once |
| 12:51.57 | MohammadAG | complimented |
| 12:52.00 | SpeedEvil | Ikarus: What do you mean? |
| 12:53.11 | LaoLang_cool | IRL? |
| 12:53.16 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: the new OMAP 4 platform is smaller in size and more importantly, fewer highspeed external busses, if you can fit that in the N900 physical formfactor instead of aiming higher you can design a very conservative PCB |
| 12:53.25 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@port-92-206-106-201.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 12:53.46 | TiagoTiago | In Real Life : That weird and mysterious place where pizzas come from |
| 12:54.05 | SpeedEvil | Ikarus: possibly, yes. |
| 12:54.15 | SpeedEvil | Ikarus: the modem is still a major problem |
| 12:54.18 | ZogG | MohammadAG did you buy n9? or you asume from n950? |
| 12:54.21 | *** join/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@ip-40-92.dhcp.opintanner.fi) |
| 12:54.25 | Ikarus | obtaining the modem is the main problem.... |
| 12:54.31 | *** part/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@ip-40-92.dhcp.opintanner.fi) |
| 12:54.35 | SpeedEvil | If you go wifi only, it's 'easy' |
| 12:54.37 | *** join/#maemo cehteh (~ct@pipapo.org) |
| 12:54.39 | Ikarus | I guess the only vendor willing to deal with you is going to be Huawei |
| 12:55.18 | SpeedEvil | wonders if there are remanufacturing houses. |
| 12:55.28 | SpeedEvil | Take all parts from board A, put them on board B |
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| 13:02.23 | TiagoTiago | Somtimes i wonder if it wouldn't be good if Nokia straight out gave us the big fat midle finger; seems that often when you piss off hackers they do an amazing job; nothing seems to motivate them more than someone trying to make them not do somthing... |
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| 13:06.01 | MohammadAG | ZogG, N950 |
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| 13:09.12 | sheepbat | anyone know how much it cost the openpandora people to do their design? |
| 13:09.27 | sheepbat | i'd honestly go for a more phone-ish version of what they have |
| 13:09.55 | *** join/#maemo t71 (~core@119.73.35.63) |
| 13:10.09 | kerio | sheepbat: [DocScrutinizer's] been there, done that |
| 13:11.16 | sheepbat | by which you mean.. looked it up and it was a pain in the ass? |
| 13:11.39 | kerio | afaik he asked them if they wanted to add phone stuff, they didn't care |
| 13:11.39 | kerio | :( |
| 13:11.46 | sheepbat | aww |
| 13:11.57 | kerio | it's understandable |
| 13:11.59 | kerio | phones suck |
| 13:12.56 | sheepbat | yeah, but it's the most effective way to get ubiquitous internet |
| 13:13.02 | kerio | yeah |
| 13:13.04 | sheepbat | ..which is why I have an N900 in the first place |
| 13:13.10 | kerio | me too! ^_^ |
| 13:13.24 | sheepbat | unfortunately, I suspect mine's starting to go |
| 13:13.26 | kerio | i have like 8 minutes of calls in the last three months or something |
| 13:13.30 | kerio | mine too ._. |
| 13:13.40 | sheepbat | the dropdown menu is starting to give graphical errors |
| 13:13.46 | sheepbat | although maybe it just needs a reflash.. |
| 13:14.38 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (Adam@66-90-160-127.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 13:14.38 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (Adam@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 13:14.38 | kerio | did you OC it? |
| 13:14.49 | sheepbat | hmm |
| 13:14.51 | sheepbat | ..yeah, I did |
| 13:14.53 | kerio | if you didn't, then it's probably something you can fix with a reflash |
| 13:14.59 | kerio | then you could be thoroughly screwed |
| 13:15.15 | *** join/#maemo mase_76 (~mase76@pD9FF61D0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:15.41 | sheepbat | what's the best way to get a new one? |
| 13:15.43 | kerio | the stupid thing is that, as of now, the best open phone you can buy is just another n900 |
| 13:15.49 | kerio | ebay? |
| 13:15.50 | sheepbat | yes |
| 13:15.55 | sheepbat | I was thinking ebay |
| 13:16.01 | sheepbat | but I was wondering if there was a better option |
| 13:16.07 | kerio | a store? |
| 13:16.41 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: did they not give the community the big fat middle finger, when they talked about how all the developers should start learning wp7? |
| 13:16.48 | sheepbat | yeah; I was wonderirg if anyone else sold them |
| 13:17.24 | TiagoTiago | I mean somthing like hwo when Sony removed the OtherOS functionality |
| 13:17.44 | BCMM | TiagoTiago: ah, some pure evil, rather than the present stupid/evil |
| 13:18.07 | TiagoTiago | yeah |
| 13:18.19 | sheepbat | something like "the new firmware upgrade kills the FM transmitter"? |
| 13:19.11 | kerio | >implying the FM transmitter ever worked |
| 13:20.14 | sheepbat | it's always worked just fine for me.. |
| 13:22.05 | *** join/#maemo args[0] (~args0]@64.79.104.103) |
| 13:22.56 | kerio | sheepbat: oh, cool, do you live on another planet where there's no radio interference whatsoever? |
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| 13:30.20 | BCMM | kerio: "real" radio stations interfering always happens... |
| 13:30.31 | BCMM | anyway, i've used it with very mixed success in UK cities |
| 13:30.37 | BCMM | basically depends on which car radio |
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| 13:39.44 | sheepbat | I've found plugging it into the cigarette lighter helps |
| 13:39.55 | sheepbat | the whole wire becomes a bit of an antenna |
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| 14:08.14 | Zer0cool | hey peeps , got an issue when trying to update my metasploit , i use svn update but i get ..... Segmentation fault |
| 14:08.46 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:10.10 | robbiethe1st | That's one problem with rsync/ssh for backing up your N900... It chews through battery like no tomorrow |
| 14:10.48 | sheepbat | which is why you get an external battery |
| 14:10.58 | sheepbat | I got a 5000 mAh one at fry's |
| 14:11.10 | sheepbat | lasts a full day no matter what you're doing |
| 14:12.09 | robbiethe1st | How do you use that... with no USB port? |
| 14:12.09 | sheepbat | ? |
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| 14:12.09 | *** join/#maemo sirdancealot (~kook@90.177.177.100) |
| 14:12.09 | zingo | hi there. any helsinki natives can tell me how to use the can recycling machine in Aleppa? :) |
| 14:12.09 | robbiethe1st | See... why'd I be using ssh to backup my N900 if I had the USB port still working? |
| 14:12.22 | sheepbat | ..I did |
| 14:13.05 | sheepbat | it's less hassle for me to have a program I can just run compared to actually doing all the crap for a physical backup like that |
| 14:14.15 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (Adam@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 14:14.52 | robbiethe1st | Well, I mean, I'd use rsync, but I'd use USB device mode to do it |
| 14:15.01 | robbiethe1st | For one thing, it'd be 10X faster |
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| 14:24.15 | Zer0cool | hey peeps , got an issue when trying to update my metasploit , i use svn update but i get ..... Segmentation fault does anybody know a fix |
| 14:24.40 | robbiethe1st | Try forums |
| 14:25.00 | DocScrutinizer | does an other slash on the chalkboard - one more OC fatality |
| 14:25.56 | robbiethe1st | Who? |
| 14:26.34 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-10-08 15:13:40] <sheepbat> the dropdown menu is starting to give graphical errors [2011-10-08 15:14:38] <kerio> did you OC it? [2011-10-08 15:14:51] <sheepbat> ..yeah, I did |
| 14:27.13 | robbiethe1st | We'll see after a reflash if it's a permanate glitch, or just emmc glitch |
| 14:27.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: it might not be! |
| 14:28.01 | robbiethe1st | Because I *have* noticed occasional eMMC issues, but they're rare enough that I don't know if it's OC, cosmic rays, or just luck. |
| 14:28.22 | sheepbat | is there a hardware diagnostics program I can run? |
| 14:28.31 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 14:28.38 | robbiethe1st | Maby, but how would it know? |
| 14:28.51 | robbiethe1st | Does it still do it after a reboot? |
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| 14:28.59 | DocScrutinizer | sheepbat: nope |
| 14:29.22 | robbiethe1st | I'd try reflashing first, could easily be a corrupted graphic file on the OptFS |
| 14:30.18 | sheepbat | yeah, it persists through reboots |
| 14:30.47 | robbiethe1st | And it's the exact same corruption each time you open it? |
| 14:30.56 | sheepbat | yeah |
| 14:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 14:31.02 | robbiethe1st | Try switching themes |
| 14:31.03 | sheepbat | ..wait |
| 14:31.05 | sheepbat | it's gone now |
| 14:31.16 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 14:31.23 | DocScrutinizer | reflash |
| 14:31.28 | robbiethe1st | I blame the ext2 FS |
| 14:31.35 | sheepbat | ...it's ext2? |
| 14:31.59 | DocScrutinizer | ext3 but meh |
| 14:32.01 | robbiethe1st | Rootfs is Ubifs, OptFS is EXT2(or maby EXT3 without a journal, same basic thing) |
| 14:32.16 | MohammadAG | where? |
| 14:32.17 | Zer0cool | @robbie tryed forum nothing works |
| 14:32.32 | robbiethe1st | Zer0cool, I don't know or care. I've never used it myself |
| 14:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:34.00 | robbiethe1st | Y'know, it's been over a year since I've OC'd my N900... it's still humming along at 950mhz. It's getting fairly warm now; putting all available resources to sending files over SSH, but it hasn't crashed yet, and I've gone through 3 batteries in the last few hours |
| 14:34.34 | DocScrutinizer | tat's a nonsense statement |
| 14:34.46 | robbiethe1st | (Maxing CPU, eMMC and Wifi really drains the batteries) |
| 14:34.49 | robbiethe1st | ...? |
| 14:35.00 | kerio | hm, a new openpandora costs less than a new n900 |
| 14:35.18 | kerio | openpandora+lame phone? |
| 14:35.40 | DocScrutinizer | OC tear&wear is reducing time to terminal failure, not causing a dropout after 3 batteries |
| 14:36.14 | robbiethe1st | No, not saying that. What I'm saying is that it's quite stable currently, even after a year. |
| 14:36.25 | robbiethe1st | And yes, I have a good sample, but still |
| 14:36.37 | DocScrutinizer | CPU lifespan 100.000h, except on 600MHz: 23.000h. Extrapolate to 1000MHz: 600h |
| 14:36.42 | Zer0cool | @alright dick dont comment at all then !! |
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| 14:36.57 | sheepbat | and at 800, DocScrutinizer ? |
| 14:37.05 | sheepbat | does undervolting help at all? |
| 14:37.08 | DocScrutinizer | up to your guess |
| 14:37.12 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 14:37.19 | DocScrutinizer | undervolting is nonsense |
| 14:37.28 | robbiethe1st | Well, we're just going to have to see how long it lasts under normal use. For me, it lasted longer than the USB port did, so... |
| 14:38.06 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 14:39.41 | DocScrutinizer | (undervlting) well it might reduce temperature of CPU chip a bit, which massively helps to extend lifespan on OC |
| 14:40.08 | sheepbat | how about sticking it directly in front of an AC vent a good portion of the time it's being used? |
| 14:40.29 | MohammadAG | cools the plastic rather than the chip |
| 14:40.31 | robbiethe1st | Personally, I undervolted to where it crashed, then brought it up to where it was stable. Seems to work great |
| 14:40.46 | DocScrutinizer | elecric current is main culprit of OC-tear&wear |
| 14:40.51 | DocScrutinizer | not temperature |
| 14:40.52 | robbiethe1st | Well, it will help, but it'll help extend the battery life more than anything |
| 14:40.57 | DocScrutinizer | temperature just helps |
| 14:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | ekectric current *is* higher on higher CPU clock freq, no matter what you do to fight SmartReflex |
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| 14:41.59 | MohammadAG | but for cooling you'd need a direct conductor on the surface of the chip |
| 14:42.05 | MohammadAG | like a heatsink |
| 14:42.10 | DocScrutinizer | that too |
| 14:42.59 | robbiethe1st | One thing you could do is setup a script to check approximate temp(from the battery) and limit the CPU depending on that |
| 14:43.21 | robbiethe1st | So you could use it at high OC for short bursts, then slow it down if you're doing something that takes a while |
| 14:43.30 | DocScrutinizer | the thermal resistance from CPU chip to mainboard "heatsink" is several °C/W, and you can't reduce the heat that builds up in die a lot by cooling the mainboard |
| 14:43.57 | robbiethe1st | Liquid nitrogen! |
| 14:44.16 | robbiethe1st | Even at several C higher than -180C or w/e, it's still cold enough. |
| 14:44.18 | robbiethe1st | :P |
| 14:44.47 | DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: (short bursts) correct - for temperature build-up - alas those short periods are sub-millisecond until the chip die heated up locally |
| 14:45.46 | robbiethe1st | Oh well. I'd just invest in a spare, used N900, and crank that thing up as high as you can safely go |
| 14:46.07 | sheepbat | yeah.. at the prices ebay lists, I can buy another one pretty easily |
| 14:46.08 | robbiethe1st | Keep backups every week or so(BM makes it easy), and just restore to the new device when it dies. |
| 14:46.11 | sheepbat | I'm considering getting two |
| 14:46.24 | robbiethe1st | Look for 'reboot looped' devices if you can |
| 14:46.45 | robbiethe1st | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:46.47 | sheepbat | they just need a reflash or something? |
| 14:47.07 | robbiethe1st | It's the OptFS which goes screwy |
| 14:47.23 | DocScrutinizer | pebcak |
| 14:47.23 | robbiethe1st | EXT3 on eMMC just... is quite fragile for whatever reason |
| 14:48.16 | robbiethe1st | Let me put it this way: UbiFS is /far/ more tolerant of issues than EXT3 is |
| 14:48.38 | DocScrutinizer | well that's true, ... and not. It's just eMMC or flash in general that's fragile on write, so of course also ext3 is fragile on flash |
| 14:48.56 | robbiethe1st | UbiFS seems to be a /lot/ more resistant, though |
| 14:49.35 | DocScrutinizer | nope, also not true. It's the way NAND is controlled vs the way MMC is *not* controlled (by CPU) that causes that |
| 14:50.14 | robbiethe1st | Maby so. Either way, as a whole, A is far less likely to fail than B |
| 14:50.44 | DocScrutinizer | if you kill the CPU during a page rewrite cycle on NAND then you also will see corrupted pages |
| 14:50.56 | ale152 | i'm trying to connect my IR webcam to my n900 with h-e-n. I can see my webcam in lsusb, but makedev does not assign it a /dev/video* node, but a strange /dev/usbv1.*_** that I can't read with mplayer. I tried with make it manually with mknod /dev/video3 c 81 0, but it doesn't work. What can I do? |
| 14:51.21 | ale152 | *tried to |
| 14:51.30 | DocScrutinizer | the point is NAND ubifs is made to avoid page rewrites |
| 14:52.03 | robbiethe1st | Fair enough. Anyway, I'm off. |
| 14:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 14:52.43 | TiagoTiago | Would it be possible to use a different filesystem for /home? Any that would help with that? |
| 14:52.44 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~gecko@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 14:53.22 | TiagoTiago | i know it is possible, but would it cause any showstopper imcompatibility or somthing? |
| 14:53.34 | DocScrutinizer | ale152: well, I'm glas to hear h-e-n basically works :-D. Check what drivers you need and what parameters those drivers may need |
| 14:53.40 | DocScrutinizer | glad* |
| 14:54.40 | ale152 | parameters are major-minor number for udev? |
| 14:54.44 | ale152 | *mknode? |
| 14:54.59 | ale152 | mmm |
| 14:55.01 | DocScrutinizer | ale152: standard approach is to closely inspect how things work on a PC, then copy this concept to your N900 |
| 14:55.36 | ale152 | i was just going to say that :D |
| 14:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | major-minor and udev and mknode all are assuming you got a proper kernel module to deal with that particular peripheral |
| 14:55.58 | ale152 | webcam works perfectly on my kubuntu, but i don't know where to inspect... |
| 14:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | oooh webcam, might get tricky as it *might* (not definitely does) use isochronous mode on USB, which isn't supported on N900 |
| 14:57.22 | ale152 | lsusb on desktop: Bus 006 Device 004: ID 0c45:613c Microdia PC Camera (SN9C120) |
| 14:57.22 | ale152 | lsusb on n900: Bus 001 Device 014: ID 0c45:613c Microdia |
| 14:57.25 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 14:57.57 | ale152 | i read about a dude who managed to use and external webcam on n900, but he didn't explain how to do that |
| 14:58.02 | ale152 | *an |
| 14:58.04 | DocScrutinizer | ale152: that shows h-e-n properly detected and connected and enumerated the device |
| 14:58.19 | ale152 | good :D |
| 14:58.48 | DocScrutinizer | but it doesn't tell anything about proper drivers used or not used for that USB device |
| 14:59.35 | ale152 | mh, ok |
| 14:59.51 | DocScrutinizer | you need to find out which kernelmodule.so gets loaded by udev for your webcam, on PC |
| 14:59.59 | ale152 | if I found the proper source driver, I can just compile it with scratchbox? |
| 15:00.00 | DocScrutinizer | lsmod might help |
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| 15:00.21 | DocScrutinizer | maybe, it's your only chance anyway :-) |
| 15:01.05 | ale152 | and if I found the drivers source? |
| 15:01.50 | ale152 | *what if |
| 15:03.05 | ale152 | ok, the coder won't never release the driver source :( |
| 15:03.18 | Kowalczyk | hmmm is it possible to compile stuff from source on the n900? I tried to compile irssi but I get permission denied on ./configure as root and regular user |
| 15:03.47 | ale152 | Kowalczyk, you have to install the make suite |
| 15:04.02 | Kowalczyk | aha |
| 15:04.18 | Kowalczyk | same as debian? build-essentials?:D |
| 15:04.39 | Kowalczyk | because irssi from app manager doesnt have perl compiled right? |
| 15:05.06 | ale152 | mmm, I can't remember how I did it, but it was not very easy... |
| 15:06.58 | Kowalczyk | ok.. will need to figure it out then :) need to get perl to work in irssi |
| 15:10.33 | DocScrutinizer | setting up a working build environment on N900 isn't exactly trivial, as you'll need to take care about "optification" by yourself |
| 15:10.35 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:11.05 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. make sure your rootfs won't fill up with lib litter |
| 15:11.07 | Kowalczyk | DocScrutinizer: ok. hmm any guide how to do it? or how to get perl working in irssi. but then I guess compile from source is the only way |
| 15:11.43 | SpeedEvil | Kowalczyk: If trying that - copy / to a filesystem with more space - chroot into it - then install build essentials in that. |
| 15:11.43 | DocScrutinizer | the usual recommended way is to use scratchbox on your desktop PC |
| 15:12.10 | DocScrutinizer | that was a valid approach how to do it, yes |
| 15:12.28 | SpeedEvil | Scratchbox is probably more sane |
| 15:12.44 | SpeedEvil | Unless installing scratchbox is going to be a hideous mess. |
| 15:12.54 | Kowalczyk | ok. never played scratchbox. never ever looked at it |
| 15:13.05 | Kowalczyk | with* |
| 15:14.11 | ale152 | DocScrutinizer, i found the source camera driver:D |
| 15:14.24 | DocScrutinizer | look, this channel probably has the most lunatic N900 users you can probably find, still I only know of ~2..3 who actually got a working gcc suite on their N900 |
| 15:14.42 | ale152 | DocScrutinizer, i got :D |
| 15:14.54 | Kowalczyk | ok. so basically im screwed. hehe |
| 15:15.08 | DocScrutinizer | ale152: great - give it a shot on scratchbox, see if it compiles without problems |
| 15:15.12 | Kowalczyk | time to google |
| 15:15.13 | ale152 | but then i had to flash my n900 because i got no more free space on / :P |
| 15:15.20 | Kowalczyk | mine is just flashed |
| 15:17.02 | Sicelo | doesn't use any scripts with irssi, but, Kowalczyk, are u sure irssi in the repos can't use perl? |
| 15:17.08 | Kowalczyk | Sicelo: yes. |
| 15:17.10 | Kowalczyk | or no |
| 15:17.11 | DocScrutinizer | Kowalczyk: build-essentials will eat several 100 mb in / (unless you take care to install it elsewhere) - I've never seen a N900 with just as much as 100MB free space in / |
| 15:17.33 | Kowalczyk | Sicelo: it doesnt include /script command and /load perl gets an error |
| 15:17.41 | ale152 | DocScrutinizer, do you remember where is located the root of scratchbox? |
| 15:18.04 | DocScrutinizer | you want to install scratchbox to N900? |
| 15:18.07 | DocScrutinizer | :-o |
| 15:18.18 | ale152 | oh, found it |
| 15:18.30 | Kowalczyk | but is it possible to build irssi on another machine. make a .deb package and install on n900? prolly not |
| 15:19.04 | DocScrutinizer | ale152: scratchbox is meant for cross-compiling, no need for it on N900. On PC SB usually installs to / and eats some 5..7GB there |
| 15:19.24 | DocScrutinizer | Kowalczyk: that's what SB is all about |
| 15:19.33 | ale152 | mh? |
| 15:19.56 | ale152 | i don't want to install scratchbox on n900 :P |
| 15:20.01 | Kowalczyk | DocScrutinizer: ok. but it cant be done without SB? |
| 15:20.24 | ale152 | i already have it on my desktop, i just did not remember this path: /scratchbox/users/ale152/home/ale152/driver/ |
| 15:20.38 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 15:20.50 | DocScrutinizer | yes, pathnames in SB are a PITA |
| 15:21.52 | Kowalczyk | yes as it can or yes as it cant? hmm need to play with SB in slackware then |
| 15:22.03 | Kowalczyk | as it seems I only run slackware and mac os x here |
| 15:22.03 | Kowalczyk | :D |
| 15:22.36 | DocScrutinizer | Kowalczyk: if you want to go the geek way to install a complete build environment on your N900, you can build there without SB. Not recommended though, esp for "beginners" |
| 15:23.26 | DocScrutinizer | installing SB on your PC linux is the recommende way to build packages for maemo |
| 15:23.38 | Kowalczyk | DocScrutinizer: ok. I will do that then |
| 15:24.03 | DocScrutinizer | du -sh /scratchbox -> 5,3G /scratchbox/ |
| 15:24.38 | Kowalczyk | ok.. but is it complicated? |
| 15:24.46 | Kowalczyk | so with that I can build irssi with perl support? |
| 15:25.33 | DocScrutinizer | well, installation is a bit clumsy, but after it got installed, you probably learn to use it in less than 2 days ;-) |
| 15:26.01 | Kowalczyk | ok |
| 15:26.05 | Kowalczyk | time to check slackbuilds |
| 15:26.08 | ale152 | DocScrutinizer, kernel version of scratchbox and n900 are different, could this be a problem? |
| 15:26.12 | Kowalczyk | doh |
| 15:26.19 | Kowalczyk | no slackbuilds |
| 15:26.25 | DocScrutinizer | unlike installation of a build env on N900 which will possibly take a week til it works at all ;-) |
| 15:26.38 | Kowalczyk | :P:P |
| 15:27.32 | Kowalczyk | oh. I prolly have to install debian in virtualbox and get scratchbox on there? because it needs apt-get right? |
| 15:27.33 | DocScrutinizer | ale152: you will need kernel sources (of your currently used kernel on N900) in scratchbox, to build a new kernel module against that |
| 15:27.58 | ale152 | :O |
| 15:28.15 | ale152 | i don't think i have enough time to waste with it :P |
| 15:28.31 | DocScrutinizer | if you don't take care about vermagic and stuff (noob talking here), the module may compile but still won't load on your N900 |
| 15:29.28 | ale152 | so it would be useless? |
| 15:29.52 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AA693.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:29.52 | DocScrutinizer | now you see why h-e-n introduced hostmode into powerkernel but didn't aim at bringing 8534 usb kernel driver modules as well :-) |
| 15:30.20 | ale152 | :P |
| 15:30.23 | mgedmin | note that du /scracthbox typically shows twice the real size due to a bind mount of /scratchbox inside the targets |
| 15:30.29 | ale152 | Kowalczyk, http://ossguy.com/?p=475 |
| 15:32.01 | Kowalczyk | ale152: yeah I got that |
| 15:32.01 | Kowalczyk | :D |
| 15:32.26 | Kowalczyk | or I read that* |
| 15:32.27 | DocScrutinizer | ale152: if you got proper kernel driver module sources, you might pester pali (PK maintainer) or any other kernel dev here to build for / include them into PK |
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| 15:37.19 | DocScrutinizer | ( http://ossguy.com/?p=475 ) has same misconception as almost all pages with howto about system things: for doing ROOT things you use "root" command, not "sudo gainroot" (which is like a sudo on a normal machine, and would make the command think home is ~user, not ~root) |
| 15:37.20 | amiconn | doesn't like the huge mess that is scratchbox |
| 15:37.56 | DocScrutinizer | sudo gainroot tends to drop files to user's home that are owned by root and not supposed at all to love in ~user |
| 15:38.21 | DocScrutinizer | s/love/,ive/ |
| 15:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | live GRRR |
| 15:46.41 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 15:46.56 | Kowalczyk | Andy80: will give it a try then |
| 15:46.59 | Kowalczyk | I can just flash it once again |
| 15:47.00 | Kowalczyk | :d |
| 15:47.12 | Kowalczyk | eh |
| 15:47.15 | Kowalczyk | oh ale152 |
| 15:47.16 | Kowalczyk | .. |
| 15:50.33 | ZogG | MohammadAG ping |
| 15:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | also on that howto page there's an assumption that all the build essentials won't take much space in /, which isn't exactly correct |
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| 15:52.10 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil's suggestion of cp -a / /home/chroot; chroot /home/chroot, is the sane approach to that stuff |
| 15:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | (of course the above cmds will fail epically, it's just a 'metapher' aka sketch) |
| 15:55.26 | DocScrutinizer | possibly it's even more smart to create and loopmount a devel-diskimage file on MyDocs |
| 15:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | suggested size: 4GB ;-D |
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| 15:59.22 | DocScrutinizer | downside: can't get accessed directly via mass storage mode, you'd rather need to loopmount the disimage to your PC to access its content |
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| 16:00.07 | C-S-B | I'm getting desperate any one selling n900 screws to the uk? |
| 16:00.09 | DocScrutinizer | well, otoh mass storage mode also doesn't allow access to ~user at all, or to larger /home/* |
| 16:00.53 | DocScrutinizer | C-S-B: well, I *might* do that, but I'm not feeling it's worth the hassle |
| 16:01.25 | C-S-B | :( how much would make the hassle worth it? |
| 16:01.26 | DocScrutinizer | get those screws at your fav local screw-dealer |
| 16:01.33 | *** join/#maemo sat2050 (~sat2050@122.177.17.243) |
| 16:01.35 | C-S-B | Easier said then done! |
| 16:01.48 | C-S-B | Most places don't go that small |
| 16:01.49 | DocScrutinizer | they are like 10ct a dozen |
| 16:02.22 | C-S-B | If you can point me towards a supplier, I'd be grateful. Strugging to find them. |
| 16:02.39 | C-S-B | just need the small 6 that fasten the front fram to the slinding mechanism |
| 16:02.47 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I only got addr of local dealers here in Germany, sorry |
| 16:03.14 | C-S-B | To confirm, they are m1.4x2.8 |
| 16:03.26 | C-S-B | is that all i need to get the right thinb? |
| 16:03.30 | C-S-B | *thing. |
| 16:03.33 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, as I've not checked their size |
| 16:03.42 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 16:04.09 | DocScrutinizer | head spec (philips, torx, etc) |
| 16:04.24 | DocScrutinizer | pan head, flat head, whatever |
| 16:04.43 | C-S-B | well they are philps |
| 16:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 16:04.58 | C-S-B | and I assume flat hed? |
| 16:05.14 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@62-47-174-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:05.16 | DocScrutinizer | yup, though I'm not sure this is the correct term in English |
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| 16:09.14 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.50 | DocScrutinizer | while for slider you got 4 pcs "SCREW M1.4x5.0", and for kbd frame another 2 pcs "SCREW RF1.4x4" |
| 16:11.24 | DocScrutinizer | the last 2 are the torx |
| 16:12.21 | TiagoTiago | Usually when you guys reflash, how long does it take to resintall everything on your N900? |
| 16:12.46 | TiagoTiago | from the beggining of the reflash to getting everything done |
| 16:12.48 | DocScrutinizer | depends on method, no? |
| 16:13.22 | DocScrutinizer | with restoring a backupmenu image it takes like 5min for flashing plus 5min for restoring |
| 16:13.35 | DocScrutinizer | doing everything by hand takes a day |
| 16:14.20 | DocScrutinizer | rstoring a "normal backup" takes several hours, depending on number of apps to restore, and mood of repositories |
| 16:15.12 | ShadowJK | doing everything by hand took about 3 hours for me |
| 16:15.21 | DocScrutinizer | you know the stock backup app only keeps a list of apps to re-install |
| 16:15.23 | amiconn | never had to reflash so far |
| 16:15.37 | ShadowJK | only reflashed once so far |
| 16:16.22 | ShadowJK | and once I repaired extensive damage to /home through executing one line of that on-slider-open script location at a time |
| 16:17.50 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I'm tending to state estimated duration * 3..4, as that'S psychologically better for your "customer" to prepare for a 4h action then find it took only 2h, rtaher than I'm telling them "*I* did it in 1h, dunno how long it will take *you* to do it" |
| 16:18.29 | TiagoTiago | that's a nice habit |
| 16:18.41 | ShadowJK | Well yeah, I'd reserve an entire day for it for sure :P |
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| 16:21.13 | TiagoTiago | Would it be easy to explain to me why a pivot root is different than a chroot? |
| 16:21.24 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 16:21.26 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 16:21.40 | TiagoTiago | Can you, please? |
| 16:21.51 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, lemme ponder |
| 16:22.11 | C-S-B | DocScrutinizer Just found a company that specialises in micro screws that is round the corner from my work. Not sure if they'll trade to a meagre peasant like myself though. |
| 16:22.27 | DocScrutinizer | simply put chroot is a root process running as child under a master root, while pivotroot chages the master root |
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| 16:23.01 | TiagoTiago | I see |
| 16:23.17 | TiagoTiago | Where does the name come from? |
| 16:23.33 | DocScrutinizer | from excel? X-P |
| 16:23.53 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 16:33.06 | *** join/#maemo sat2050 (~sat2050@122.177.17.243) |
| 16:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: http://linux.die.net/man/8/pivot_root |
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| 16:34.21 | *** part/#maemo _dug_ (~uberguru@212.183.128.1) |
| 16:36.14 | TiagoTiago | interesting, thanx |
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| 16:49.54 | DocScrutinizer | also |
| 16:49.56 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: http://linux.die.net/man/2/pivot_root |
| 16:51.10 | DocScrutinizer | >> Some of the more obscure uses of pivot_root() may quickly lead to insanity. << ;-P |
| 16:51.27 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 16:52.26 | TiagoTiago | I wonder what that was about... |
| 16:52.27 | DocScrutinizer | maybe also worth noticing that pivot_root is not posix conform |
| 16:54.00 | *** join/#maemo giorgiline (~giorgilin@234.Red-81-35-201.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 16:54.08 | giorgiline | hello people |
| 16:54.34 | giorgiline | anyone can help me? |
| 16:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | N8x0 diablo used pivot_root to switch from initrd to real rootfs |
| 16:54.43 | *** join/#maemo dangergrrl (~ariana@ip-64-134-230-85.public.wayport.net) |
| 16:54.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~ask |
| 16:54.45 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 16:55.28 | giorgiline | im trying to make a maemo application from a website. what is the best way of scraping the web data? |
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| 16:55.53 | DocScrutinizer | maybe have a look into "fahrplan" app, as it does exactly that |
| 16:57.19 | giorgiline | ok many thanks, i'll see |
| 16:57.19 | RST38h | There is no maemo-specific way to scrape web data. Use the same methods used everywhere. |
| 16:57.19 | RST38h | (i.e. tcp/ip sockets, regular expressions, etc) |
| 16:57.20 | DocScrutinizer | giorgiline: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fahrplan/ |
| 16:57.35 | DocScrutinizer | this is not webOS ;-P |
| 16:58.06 | giorgiline | so, you have to use qnetworkmanager and so on, not webkit, is it? |
| 16:58.48 | TiagoTiago | I would imagine if you wanna use webkit you could |
| 16:59.53 | DocScrutinizer | on maemo generally the app just assumes there's netwok connectivity available |
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| 17:01.03 | DocScrutinizer | I guess there's a way to rise that "connect to internet" requester if there's no network connectivity, but that's a slightly off topic item |
| 17:01.58 | giorgiline | isn't it suposed to warn you instantly? |
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| 17:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | that's up to your app |
| 17:04.27 | DocScrutinizer | just like it is on your arbitrary linux desktop |
| 17:04.51 | giorgiline | ok |
| 17:05.06 | giorgiline | more work to do xD |
| 17:05.13 | DocScrutinizer | starting firefox usually doesn't magically crank up my modem dialup internet connection on my desktop |
| 17:05.48 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@212.200.199.169) |
| 17:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | and anyway GPRS is a supposed-always-on connection anyway |
| 17:06.49 | DocScrutinizer | it's largely insane to log out from GPRS APN as soon as your app is closing IP connections |
| 17:07.35 | DocScrutinizer | again much the same like on desktop linux |
| 17:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | it won't tear down my DSL modem on closing firefox |
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| 17:10.14 | DocScrutinizer | given the fact it's data transfer volume and not online time that usually costs battery power and real dollars, your app's main goal is to keep data traffic low at both volume and frequency |
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| 17:11.15 | DocScrutinizer | esp pinging the network every 5 seconds is an absolute nogo, all beyond that basic considerations is domain of ICD2 managing network connections on maemo |
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| 17:12.45 | giorgiline | doing it at every request would be just fine? |
| 17:14.30 | DocScrutinizer | your app should probably only create traffic triggered by UI activity |
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| 17:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | that's absolutely tolerable - though of course it was even better if you could cache as much of data as possible so you wouldn't need to redo the download when user clicks a button or whatever |
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| 17:16.38 | giorgiline | that's an interesting point to keep in mind |
| 17:17.03 | DocScrutinizer | e.g if you know what the next page looks like, it was for sure a better concept to keep that data local rather than download it on user hitting "next page" button |
| 17:17.58 | DocScrutinizer | hope I'm not too fuzzy and puzzling in my rant :-) |
| 17:18.27 | giorgiline | nothing at all |
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| 17:55.26 | TiagoTiago | should i use Catoriseplus or Catorise+CatoriseGUI? |
| 18:00.51 | TiagoTiago | i'll try the plus |
| 18:02.08 | hatake_kakashi | plus is better |
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| 18:04.05 | TiagoTiago | It got subfolders?! YAY!!! :D |
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| 18:10.59 | hatake_kakashi | you can create custom sub-directories like the other one |
| 18:11.45 | hatake_kakashi | the original catorise+catorisegui you couldn't do that and you couldn't even move things that are related to chrooted debian for instance, with catoriseplus you can |
| 18:11.47 | robtaylor | #@ |
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| 18:24.02 | TiagoTiago | there is away to make somthing else happen if i hold the pwoer button instead of shutting down the system, right? |
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| 18:29.43 | hatake_kakashi | doubt it |
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| 18:31.01 | Sicelo | pressing it twice quickly should lock device |
| 18:31.33 | Sicelo | and there is a tweak to show a reboot button as well |
| 18:31.41 | *** join/#maemo internetishard (~root@c-76-102-65-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:31.49 | hatake_kakashi | that's only pressing it once, which brings up a menu |
| 18:31.58 | internetishard | How do you respond when people ask what can the n900/maemo do that android can't? |
| 18:32.53 | *** join/#maemo APTX (APTX@unaffiliated/aptx) |
| 18:33.37 | hatake_kakashi | plenty of things, FMãtransmitter built in, wireless pentesting, can have up to 64GB storage space (32GB internal + 32GB microSDHC), can boot into nitdroid and meego (only nexus and nexus Sãcomes unlocked by default) |
| 18:33.50 | hatake_kakashi | easier to `jail break' |
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| 18:42.26 | faina | run ipython on your phone |
| 18:42.32 | faina | heck you can install gcc |
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| 18:46.40 | kerio | internetishard: openoffice |
| 18:46.57 | internetishard | kerio: I actually haven't tried that. My phone is slow as it is, heh. |
| 18:47.36 | faina | you could in theory run openoffice via ssh/x-forwarding? |
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| 18:47.57 | kerio | faina: no, you can run openoffice on the n900 |
| 18:48.02 | internetishard | Actually, that would be fast, eh? |
| 18:48.05 | kerio | hell, it's preinstalled in easydebian |
| 18:48.19 | TiagoTiago | but is there a way to make it do somthing else when i press and hold? |
| 18:48.34 | kerio | TiagoTiago: perhaps, but not if you press and hold for too long |
| 18:48.57 | internetishard | Actually, what would be useful to me would be a video of one of you guys who has optimized your device - booting and starting general apps... |
| 18:49.18 | internetishard | Just to see how the latency seems vs mine (and when I very it is a lot different I can figure out why) |
| 18:49.37 | faina | kerio: I knew there was packages for OO, the running remotely was a 'solution' for OO being slow. |
| 18:49.47 | kerio | oic |
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| 18:51.01 | TiagoTiago | no way to completly supress the shutdown on hold? |
| 18:51.30 | kerio | TiagoTiago: is there a way to suppress the forced-power-down on button hold on a pc? |
| 18:51.48 | TiagoTiago | I think some have a setting on BIOD |
| 18:51.49 | internetishard | I'm using 2.6.28.10-power48 is that optimal? |
| 18:51.52 | TiagoTiago | BIOS* |
| 18:52.09 | hatake_kakashi | a hacked BIOS yes, but NOLOãis proprietary :) |
| 18:52.22 | hatake_kakashi | internetishard, not necessarily |
| 18:52.38 | TiagoTiago | I was hoping it was treat as just another key, like the power key some keyboards got |
| 18:53.12 | *** join/#maemo soltys (soltys@83.168.118.74) |
| 18:53.28 | internetishard | version 20.2010.36-2.002 is the newest? |
| 18:54.08 | TiagoTiago | actually, when the screen is locked, the powerkey won't shut it down no matter what |
| 18:54.28 | TiagoTiago | doesn't that indicate it should be possible to intercept the holding of the power button? |
| 18:55.44 | hatake_kakashi | internetishard, that's the latest official nokia firmware yes |
| 18:56.37 | hatake_kakashi | internetishard, there's also CSSU which brings in more features, possibly more stability but may also bring instability elsewhere |
| 18:56.38 | internetishard | So there are unofficial ones? |
| 18:57.25 | internetishard | hatake_kakashi: what's your experience in their relative stabilities? |
| 18:57.49 | hatake_kakashi | CSSU is unofficial yes, its brought to you by community for community due to lack of nokia's commitment with maemo community |
| 18:58.20 | internetishard | sweet, so I'd guess it is already significantly improved |
| 18:58.32 | internetishard | for example, I'm dying to have grouping in Contacts |
| 18:58.49 | hatake_kakashi | internetishard, relative stability?ãI personally don't think there's any to say much about it :)ãthe device if anything has to remain completely stock to be fairly stable |
| 18:59.18 | internetishard | On the "who is it for?" section it says "long-term: all n900 users/owners" |
| 18:59.26 | internetishard | Therefore, I'm guessing the aim is to make it more stable than the stock |
| 18:59.33 | hatake_kakashi | it has improved in fair few aspects (I don't think there's grouping in Contacts function yet) but its not a do-all, be-all fix |
| 18:59.43 | hatake_kakashi | that's what its aim is yes ultimately |
| 19:03.48 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-74-136.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:04.29 | internetishard | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bREOPHmS-A this guys n900 is really snappy |
| 19:05.19 | RST38h | Meanwhile: Florida School District Begins Fingerprinting Students |
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| 19:06.14 | TiagoTiago | Before the end of the century schools will be doing virtual stripsearches (and cavity searches) |
| 19:06.38 | internetishard | Florida Students trick fingerprinting machines by overlaying OJ's prints on top of their own |
| 19:06.55 | internetishard | virtual cavity search sounds erotic |
| 19:07.24 | TiagoTiago | i'm sure the technology will be used for such things as well |
| 19:07.37 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo_ (~sicelo@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 19:07.42 | Sicelo_ | wooohooo |
| 19:07.47 | Sicelo_ | sorry for spam |
| 19:07.48 | Sicelo_ | but |
| 19:08.00 | hatake_kakashi | that video seems like the owner has an older CSSU version installed, the latter versions of CSSU allows portrait hildon-desktop. Though he could have also blacklisted hildon-desktop (to prevent it from switching between landscape and portrait) |
| 19:08.16 | Sicelo_ | connected to internet on my N900 from my cdma modem |
| 19:08.41 | TiagoTiago | i wouldn't be surprised if for example eventually a dildo comes with a pico projector that overlayes a "Xray" representation over the skin showing what it is doing inside |
| 19:08.43 | Sicelo_ | one more time, amny thanks to h-e-n devs. wow. |
| 19:09.15 | TiagoTiago | in real time |
| 19:09.26 | RST38h | Tiago: but look at the bright side: they will no longer be targets for terrorism! =) |
| 19:09.46 | TiagoTiago | dildos? |
| 19:09.47 | RST38h | (I mean both schools and dildos btw) |
| 19:09.52 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 19:09.53 | hatake_kakashi | Sicelo_, there's a thanks! button on tmo thread. Use it, that's what its for :) |
| 19:10.08 | Sicelo | :P |
| 19:10.20 | Sicelo | i have hit it too many times already |
| 19:10.28 | hatake_kakashi | so have I |
| 19:10.33 | hatake_kakashi | nothing wrong with that |
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| 19:13.18 | Sicelo | i see |
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| 19:43.23 | DocScrutinizer | the original catorise was just crap, offering no way whatsoever to sort your apps the way *aou* want. So I went for apmefo and am just happy with it (well kinda, the config gui is like bill gates himself invented it, but meh) |
| 19:43.57 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: (hold powerbutton) check /etc/mce/mce.ini |
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| 19:45.32 | TiagoTiago | is there a gui for tweaking that or i'll have to edit it manually? |
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| 19:48.26 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: (intercept powerbutton hold) it works that way: on pressing PB a timer (8s usually) gets started, and when that timer expires the device reboots hard. Same time on PB press a IRQ is triggered and sensed by kernel, so kernel now has 8s time to intercept the watchdog timer action |
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| 19:50.58 | TiagoTiago | I can't replace the shutdown when the timer finishes with a custom command? |
| 19:51.12 | DocScrutinizer | (GUI) I bet there are some GUIs to deal with some of the settings in mce.ini, but I'm not aware of a dedicated complete GUI just for that |
| 19:51.22 | TiagoTiago | without worrying about the risk of an accidental shutdown? |
| 19:51.31 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: nope, this is hardwired for good reason |
| 19:52.09 | DocScrutinizer | you need to cancel that timer actively whenever the IRQ fires |
| 19:52.27 | TiagoTiago | The way it shuts down is safer than pulling the battery i assume |
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| 19:59.17 | TiagoTiago | What about replacing the shutdown for the regular time, but still making it go down if i hold the button for 30 seconds, would that be possible to make without going against the safety reasons for the regular shutdown? |
| 20:01.42 | DocScrutinizer | it shuts down by informing kernel about power-down-pending (iirc) via IRQ, then running the power down sequence hardcoded/configured in twl4030, which in turn is switching down one VDD after the other |
| 20:03.36 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: you can do whatever you want as long as you make sure you receive the powerbutton-pressed IRQ and reset the timer so it doesn't trigger. I guess kernel even does that for you by default |
| 20:04.24 | TiagoTiago | What exactly is the safety reason for the shutdown being necessary there? To force a shutdown when the system is hanging? |
| 20:06.41 | DocScrutinizer | so the normal supposed way of a long-powerbutton-press is: kernel detects PB-IRQ, kernel winds a 1s timer, on expiry kernel resets the watchdog hw-timer in twl4030 and checks if powerbutton already got pushed for >NN seconds (say 12s), on reset of the hw wd timer twl4030 triggers the IRQ again, this starting the kernel 1s delay again -> go back to square one |
| 20:07.17 | DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly, it is supposed to shutdown the system when even kernel is hung up so can't act on PB press anymore |
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| 20:08.22 | DocScrutinizer | so if PB-8s doesn't shut down the system, that's because kernel still is actively servicing it and intercepts the shutdown |
| 20:09.15 | DocScrutinizer | (on N900 twl4030 variant it's a bit more awkward, as this behaviour isn't power-on default but needs enabling from sw side :-/ ) |
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| 20:51.22 | hatake_kakashi | ShadowJK, ping |
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| 20:52.32 | hatake_kakashi | hmm bah.. DocScrutinizer, ping |
| 20:53.24 | DocScrutinizer | wazzup? |
| 20:55.16 | hatake_kakashi | was about to ask if you're familiar with ShadowJK's bq script: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter. Then I saw what the acronyms were when `cat' on the script itself. |
| 20:56.29 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, you lost me on the second half |
| 20:57.13 | DocScrutinizer | and yes, I'm familiar with it, it's based on my original draft |
| 20:57.32 | hatake_kakashi | I guess this strange error still persist. When I momentarily put pressure onto my 3rd N900's (rev 2101) wall charger cable (when wall charger is connected and the device is connected to that wall charger of course) the device claims it is disconnected from wall charger. As soon as I relieve that pressure the device claims it goes back to charging. The device was already fully charged prior to me putting minor pressure onto it |
| 20:58.05 | hatake_kakashi | ahh I meant like I was about to ask what is CSOC, RSOC, etc meant, but those were already mentioned when you view the script itself, its written as part of a comment |
| 20:58.35 | SpeedEvil | that's not so much an error |
| 20:58.58 | SpeedEvil | if you unplug the device - even for a few momnets - then it will go back to charging |
| 20:59.03 | SpeedEvil | Well - charging state |
| 20:59.06 | hatake_kakashi | by putting pressure I meant as in putting my thumb onto the microUSB connector that's connected to N900 |
| 20:59.17 | SpeedEvil | If you actually look at the output of the script - there isn't really much difference |
| 20:59.18 | hatake_kakashi | o.O |
| 20:59.34 | SpeedEvil | That indicates that you have an intermittent connector |
| 21:00.18 | hatake_kakashi | ahh you're the bloke that recommended me to that page :D yes the CSOC and RSOC shows 100% however, my other N900 does not exhibit the same problem even if I momentarily disconnect its wall charger cable |
| 21:00.56 | hatake_kakashi | bah :/ that means I'll need to get my microUSB port fixed on that 2101 N900 |
| 21:02.33 | DocScrutinizer | yes, that's most likely a hw defect on either USB plug or USB receptacle contacts or soldering pins |
| 21:03.12 | hatake_kakashi | great... :| thanks guys for input |
| 21:03.35 | DocScrutinizer | and for the inconsistent behaviour regarding (not) signalling charger removal and re-insertion, I also noticed that and tbh I don't have a good story completely explaining it |
| 21:05.07 | hatake_kakashi | also.. on my recent trip to h.k. I bought a microUSB port. Now I read there's three types of microUSB but does the port (female connector) also define what type of microUSB it is? or is it actually the wiring? If its wiring can solder easily redefine it or not? |
| 21:05.16 | DocScrutinizer | there also seems to be a sleeping bug in PK about charger detection rsp enabling charging rsp booting when on charger |
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| 21:05.35 | hatake_kakashi | hmm I personally haven't noticed that on any of my N900, not with device not notifying of removal and re-insertion |
| 21:07.00 | hatake_kakashi | though on my old (2204) N900, I do have intermittent issues with initial connection to wall charger in sleep mode. Device does not note that its charging nor does it seem to be accepting any inducted currents. However reinserting the wall charger cable the device automatically puts itself to charge mode |
| 21:07.49 | DocScrutinizer | that's roughly what I was talking about, yes |
| 21:07.58 | hatake_kakashi | I'm guessing that could be the sleeping bug you were referring to |
| 21:08.10 | hatake_kakashi | ahh yes.. I was getting a little confused over the terminology rsp |
| 21:08.24 | hatake_kakashi | rsp = response? |
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| 21:30.14 | TiagoTiago | ading off, cya |
| 21:30.19 | TiagoTiago | i'm heading off* |
| 21:30.31 | DocScrutinizer | respective |
| 21:31.30 | DocScrutinizer | maybe s/rsp/or/ |
| 21:32.30 | DocScrutinizer | actually my dictionary says /resp is the right term |
| 21:33.04 | DocScrutinizer | respectively /resp./; and/or |
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| 21:36.01 | hatake_kakashi | ahh I'm not familiar with shorthands :) |
| 21:36.12 | hatake_kakashi | though I'm slowly picking it all up |
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| 23:39.27 | x29a | hm, im using qtsdk to deploy my app (containing an internal library) to my n900 (copy), and it tries to copy lib.a.1, lib.a.1.0 etc, but doesnt generate/symlink those |
| 23:40.12 | x29a | now i would like to remove the entries of lib.a.1 etc, because i dont need them on the phone, it says to edit the project file, but i cant find the reference there, any hints? |
| 23:41.19 | x29a | dirty fix would be to call a post compile script to generate the symlinks |
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