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| 04:27.51 | Sazpaimon_ | I believe that I have successfully made a gcc 4.4 toolchain for scratchbox to target maemo |
| 04:28.05 | Sazpaimon_ | Im unpacking the rootstrap and installing the sdk on it now |
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| 04:59.15 | polar_cactus | Hi all, I'm trying to upload my first project in the garage (git)... |
| 05:01.50 | polar_cactus | Has anybody tried vcs.maemo.org/git? |
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| 05:05.05 | BrianB_ | Just got an N900 and would like to know what is the best/preferred app to use for rss? |
| 05:08.16 | faina | BrianB_: I'm using grr, but its tied to google reader |
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| 05:18.55 | BrianB_ | faina: Thank you. |
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| 05:38.12 | woldrich | is there a game like pipe mania ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yutgiwhMKlU ) for maemo or will I have to emulate? |
| 05:39.36 | *** part/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f71a983.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 05:42.08 | Sazpaimon_ | ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. |
| 05:42.09 | Sazpaimon_ | what the |
| 05:46.48 | faina | Sazpaimon_: fakeroot does a lot of LD_PRELOAD tricks to make things look like you're running as root. |
| 05:47.41 | Sazpaimon_ | faina, I understand that, but why am I getting this error |
| 05:47.53 | Sazpaimon_ | its preventing dh_testroot from suceeding |
| 05:48.41 | faina | what environment are you running on? |
| 05:48.45 | slonopotamus | woldrich: pipepanic? (didn't look at your link) |
| 05:48.49 | Sazpaimon_ | scratchbox, custom toolchain I made |
| 05:49.44 | Sazpaimon_ | I followed the old instructions at http://maemo.org/development/sdks/pre_alpha_installation/#manualinstall to get the maemo environment set up with it |
| 05:49.53 | Sazpaimon_ | its all working except this fakeroot error |
| 05:51.19 | Sazpaimon_ | hmm looks like echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr fixed it |
| 05:51.32 | faina | huh... |
| 05:52.18 | slonopotamus | for anyone willing to give a new life to n8x0: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1102224&postcount=30 |
| 05:52.33 | faina | I built my scratchbox environment from the harmattan sdk, and then install fremantle rootstraps into it |
| 05:54.29 | Sazpaimon_ | faina, the harmattan sdk uses hardfp |
| 05:54.41 | Sazpaimon_ | i dont think binaries will be compatible on an N900 |
| 05:54.53 | Sazpaimon_ | not to mention the eglibc version |
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| 05:55.39 | woldrich | slonopotamus, it's not in the repos? I found evilplumber, it claims to be something similar |
| 05:56.38 | faina | Sazpaimon_: I'm checking now. |
| 05:58.24 | woldrich | slonopotamus, oh jesus, it was horrible |
| 05:58.31 | woldrich | perhaps I should just setup uae |
| 05:59.04 | faina | built hello world, copied to n900, it ran. |
| 05:59.38 | faina | I used harmattan to create scratchbox, but used the fremantle rootstrap and devkits. |
| 05:59.49 | woldrich | Is there some good audio visualization software? I'd love to get projectm working but it doesn't seem easy |
| 06:01.03 | Sazpaimon_ | faina, weird, I decided to play it safe and build my toolchain using the same eglibc version and settings that the default scratchbox toolchain uses |
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| 06:02.05 | faina | Is there any docs on how to create new rootstraps/devkits for scratchbox? |
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| 06:21.24 | CableTwitch | I wish there was a decent alternative to MicroB... why does it kill itself so easily? |
| 06:22.25 | hiemanshu | CableTwitch: midori? |
| 06:22.35 | CableTwitch | Whatnow? |
| 06:22.47 | CableTwitch | Isn't that a drink? |
| 06:22.51 | hiemanshu | nope |
| 06:22.57 | hiemanshu | its a lightweight browser |
| 06:23.42 | CableTwitch | Lightweight in what way? |
| 06:23.49 | hiemanshu | check it out |
| 06:24.32 | CableTwitch | And can it be installed easily? I'm useless still when it comes to buggering about with the CLI |
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| 06:25.18 | hiemanshu | well IIRC yes |
| 06:26.30 | CableTwitch | Well, I'll have a looksee. I just want something that isn't going to get confused loading more than 2 pages at a time. |
| 06:26.43 | CableTwitch | And isn't dog slow (Firefox) |
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| 06:31.10 | DocScrutinizer | mhm midori. Been a nice browser on SHR/gta02 |
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| 06:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | but honestly available RAM and contemporary web page design make it seem wiser to never open more than one page concurrently on N900 |
| 06:34.39 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, and moo |
| 06:36.48 | DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: funny enough binaries for "simple" things are actually compatible between fremantle and harmattan. Basically all that is cli-based and doesn't need floating point calculations |
| 06:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | no problem to install and use things like less etc from N900 on N950 |
| 06:37.26 | mece | hates shitty js on web. |
| 06:37.36 | DocScrutinizer | same here |
| 06:38.02 | mece | perhaps because all my computers are ancient pieces of crap |
| 06:38.09 | mece | except my N950 |
| 06:38.15 | mece | that's pretty new |
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| 06:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | meh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore |
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| 06:45.25 | DocScrutinizer | it's the FRIGGIN WEB-"PROGRAMMERS" that shit a pile on js on their "ACME Web2.oh" pages, then mess with it until it somewhat works on their particular browser and hw (of course run from their local HDD) and then even ask to get paid for that abomination |
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| 06:45.43 | hiemanshu | I have a quad core 3.0 ghz, 8G of RAM, I have Chromium open with 60 odd tabs |
| 06:46.14 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, so what? |
| 06:46.22 | hiemanshu | works just fine :P |
| 06:46.28 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, so what? |
| 06:46.46 | hiemanshu | <DocScrutinizer> meh, my dualcore 1.8GHz + 2GB should suffice for pretty much all arbitrary web content to be found anywhere, but it SUCKS. Would suck as well on 18GHz+20GB octocore <---- replying to this remark |
| 06:47.13 | DocScrutinizer | you're not really asking me to give you a URL pointing to a page that sucks for your superduper hw as well? |
| 06:47.33 | hiemanshu | does it have flash? :P |
| 06:47.43 | DocScrutinizer | FUCK FLASH! |
| 06:47.50 | hiemanshu | ofc, fuck flash |
| 06:47.56 | hiemanshu | none of my 60 tabs have flash |
| 06:48.00 | hiemanshu | so it works |
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| 06:48.04 | amiconn | wonders what exotic web pages DocScrutinizer is referring to |
| 06:48.11 | DocScrutinizer | idiots using flash for menues for the mere shits and giggles should get shot! |
| 06:48.37 | hiemanshu | Idiots using flash for tabs, because they cant understand how to use divs |
| 06:50.03 | dm8tbr | fphover FTW! |
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| 06:50.30 | DocScrutinizer | amiconn: e.g developer.nokia.com than has issues with login as soon as you change your cookie mgmt away from ootb standards, loads 150 pictures for each shitty new webpage (mind you loading 150 images is slow via medium grade dsl even on 3GHz 8GB hw!) |
| 06:51.23 | DocScrutinizer | then uses js for no good reason etc pp |
| 06:52.01 | amiconn | developer.nokia.com loads nice & quick for me. No login there, so can't test further |
| 06:52.12 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
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| 06:53.31 | amiconn | It's acktually okay even on N900 |
| 06:53.37 | amiconn | *actually |
| 06:54.11 | DocScrutinizer | I guess you're also using a 5GHz quad core with hyperacmeGPU-graca_overclocked and 16GB, of course with a 50GB cable the to internertz |
| 06:54.13 | amiconn | (using opera mobile) |
| 06:54.49 | amiconn | My laptop (where I tried it first) is a 2.4GHz Core2 Duo, 4 GB RAM |
| 06:54.52 | DocScrutinizer | also seems your metrics for "fast and nice" obviously differs from mine - are you web-"programmer"? |
| 06:55.07 | amiconn | Well on the laptop it loads in 1-2 seconds |
| 06:55.20 | amiconn | N900 needs about 15 |
| 06:55.27 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHAHA |
| 06:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | so much for "fast and nice" |
| 06:56.21 | amiconn | 1-2 seconds is fast & nice for a whole page in my book |
| 06:56.28 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I did web programming for quite a bit of time |
| 06:59.25 | amiconn | Completing the specs, the laptop just runs chipset graphics, and my internet connection is 25/5 Mbps vds2 |
| 07:00.46 | DocScrutinizer | loading developer.nokia.com: loading 162 pictures (which takes quite some time via my "slow" 2gb DSL), loading and starting js, and if you're unlucky even flash advertisments. compare ct.de which takes a third of the time |
| 07:01.13 | DocScrutinizer | amiconn: ooh only 25Mbps, I see |
| 07:01.15 | amiconn | What are advertisements? ;) |
| 07:01.24 | amiconn | adblock ftw |
| 07:01.41 | DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAHAHA |
| 07:01.53 | faina | I thought I saw an argument that a lot of internet slowness is due to overloaded ad servers |
| 07:01.57 | DocScrutinizer | caching on local HDD ftw EH? |
| 07:02.01 | luke-jr | "Get all the information you need to port your applications from Qt to Windows Phone and from iOS and Android to Qt." |
| 07:02.02 | luke-jr | wtf? |
| 07:02.12 | faina | where "internet" actually ment "web" |
| 07:02.35 | luke-jr | why the heck would anyone port from iOS/Android to Qt at this point? |
| 07:02.57 | faina | luke-jr: maybe they built qt for windows phone? |
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| 07:03.15 | luke-jr | faina: IIRC, part of their agreement with Microsoft was that they would NOT port Qt to WinPhone |
| 07:03.29 | luke-jr | and if they did, they wouldn't be saying port from Qt to WinPhone :P |
| 07:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | if you need another url that *really* sucks, by all metrics: o2.de |
| 07:04.48 | DocScrutinizer | I'd not be surprised if MSIE and FF on windows were the only two browsers and only platform where that page renders correct and is actually usable |
| 07:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | enough of ranting, have a few things in RL to sort... cya |
| 07:05.51 | faina | luke-jr: I'm baffled at why nokia is flailing so incoherently. |
| 07:08.23 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: works fine in Konqueror |
| 07:08.44 | amiconn | Thehe, that one's even faster than developer.nokia.com. Loads in a second on desktop & laptop |
| 07:09.05 | amiconn | N900 gives me the mobile version, also fast enough but of course not comparable |
| 07:09.42 | CableTwitch | Ahh, I see foaming over web pages. |
| 07:10.05 | CableTwitch | Must be that time of the month again :O) |
| 07:12.17 | amiconn | So far the only cases of annoying web page slowness (on non-mobile) I've experienced were caused by overloaded servers. hp.com download pages do this often |
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| 07:12.51 | CableTwitch | Mm, Flash. I guess I'm less biased against it, seeing as Albino Black Sheep is a favourite site of mine. And I'm evidently immune to adverts and the like that ustilise Flash, as I barely notice them these days. |
| 07:13.12 | CableTwitch | Slow pages... First World Problem. |
| 07:13.28 | CableTwitch | All it takes is a bit of patience. |
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| 07:17.46 | DocScrutinizer | amiconn: you're out! 25Mbps downstream, c'mon your results are simply irrelevant for 95% of "normal" users |
| 07:19.13 | CableTwitch | No 'normal' users in HERE, Doc ;O) |
| 07:19.41 | faina | Nobody but us mutants. |
| 07:20.04 | DocScrutinizer | haha, yeah "can't see any wrong rendering - I'm blind" |
| 07:20.48 | CableTwitch | MicroB sometimes eats the formatting on El Reg.... most of the time it does it correctly. Some wiki also have this issue. |
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| 07:27.06 | amiconn | pfft |
| 07:27.38 | DocScrutinizer | you're aware there are still 5..10% of users that are not able to get anything better than ISDN 64kbps? Exactly those that are NOT living in or next to a city |
| 07:27.45 | amiconn | My hardware is nowhere near the hyper-mega stuff you claimed though |
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| 07:28.32 | amiconn | I didn't even get the vdsl because of the downstream, but rather because of the upstream. |
| 07:29.13 | amiconn | Lack of upstream was what annoyed me with my previous connection (plain adsl 3072/384 kbps) |
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| 07:29.43 | woldrich | sdlmame works perfectly on the n900. This has to impress my girlfriends |
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| 07:30.12 | DocScrutinizer | amiconn: which been only 50% better than what I got here |
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| 07:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | amiconn: honestly, you're out! ;-D |
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| 07:37.27 | CableTwitch | Eh, Doc is just jealous XD |
| 07:37.56 | CableTwitch | I got 20mbit ADSL at home, and due to my proximity to the exchange, I get almost all 20mbit down. |
| 07:38.18 | CableTwitch | Upstream is crap though. Not even half-meg. |
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| 07:40.16 | amiconn | ponders upgrading to 50/10 |
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| 07:41.50 | CableTwitch | That's be nice. If only. |
| 07:42.24 | amiconn | Well according to the fritzbox, the line maxes out at 80/25 or so |
| 07:43.06 | amiconn | And 25/5 -> 50/10 means +5 €/month |
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| 07:44.38 | CableTwitch | Ahh, infinitely more expensive/elusive here in the UK. |
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| 07:45.36 | amiconn | Well that's just the upgrade, in case it wasn't clear |
| 07:46.10 | CableTwitch | Yeah, I meant it's expensively expensive for a line of that speed here. |
| 07:46.58 | CableTwitch | We run an ancient and odd infrastructure here still. |
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| 09:35.04 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/04/patent_troll_targets_end_users/ |
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| 10:18.20 | Dibblah | Heh. Looks like the gas gauge chip gets rather confused by side-charging the battery :) |
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| 10:24.36 | SpeedEvil | Unless you charge ti through the normal circuitry, it's not going to notice the charging at all. |
| 10:24.56 | SpeedEvil | and will think it's attached to an infinite battery. |
| 10:25.26 | SpeedEvil | If it gets down t the learn threshold, then it will learn up capacity 1/8th a time towards infinity |
| 10:25.27 | CableTwitch | I'd love an infinite battery. |
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| 10:37.10 | Corsac | CableTwitch: a *charged* infinite battery though |
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| 10:48.14 | SpeedEvil | I don't want an infinite battery. Just one weighing a ton or so, which can convert at the rate of a kilo a second or so. |
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| 15:38.26 | Sazpaimon_ | does the autobilder use gcc 4.2? |
| 15:38.47 | Sazpaimon_ | if so, how do I submit an application I built with gcc 4.4, the only compiles on gcc >=4.4 |
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| 15:45.20 | Sazpaimon_ | hey DocScrutinizer, maybe you know this |
| 15:45.28 | Sazpaimon_ | what gcc does the autobuilder use |
| 15:45.40 | DocScrutinizer | nfc, sry |
| 15:45.41 | MohammadAG | anyone know Java? |
| 15:45.52 | MohammadAG | I need someone to help with some Android code |
| 15:46.02 | DocScrutinizer | *burp* |
| 15:46.09 | MohammadAG | it's the only hint I found at querying the local bus website |
| 15:46.22 | MohammadAG | there's no documented API for it |
| 15:49.22 | merlin1991 | MohammadAG: hit me |
| 15:49.29 | MohammadAG | hits merlin1991 |
| 15:49.45 | merlin1991 | lmao, you knew what I mean :D |
| 15:49.59 | MohammadAG | course, PM :P |
| 15:52.34 | SpeedEvil | I note that the UK rail company really got pissy at a lot of people using an 'open' API with no permission |
| 15:52.57 | SpeedEvil | Eventually pulled it, and requred authentication, with silly T&Cs |
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| 16:00.29 | MohammadAG | pretty sure the company doesn't know what an API is |
| 16:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | API or AP? |
| 16:04.58 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, API |
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| 16:05.25 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
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| 16:57.22 | vdv | hi all |
| 16:57.50 | vdv | is dual booting of meego which is installed on internal mmc and maemo possible? |
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| 16:58.57 | vdv | or nitdroid with maemo |
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| 19:08.30 | zogg_ | waves at #maemo |
| 19:08.47 | Sicelo | \0 |
| 19:08.50 | faina | waves back |
| 19:09.33 | zogg_ | hey faina, howdy? |
| 19:09.39 | zogg_ | Sicelo, \o/ |
| 19:09.41 | faina | hello |
| 19:09.50 | zogg_ | MohammadAG, q |
| 19:10.12 | faina | I'm wasting time waiting to see if I fixed a bug in some slow running code |
| 19:10.32 | ZogG | what bug and what code? |
| 19:10.40 | faina | work. |
| 19:10.41 | MohammadAG | a? |
| 19:10.56 | ZogG | MohammadAG sup, long time no talk |
| 19:11.18 | faina | analyzing sequencer result files, and I'd made an assumption about file name formats that'd changed. |
| 19:11.55 | faina | I created a small test case, updated the code for the test case and got that working. Now I see if it can actually scan the real data. |
| 19:12.06 | ZogG | faina, is it just nickname or name? and what time is it there if you still at work? |
| 19:12.10 | faina | nic |
| 19:12.23 | faina | I'm in GMT-7/8 |
| 19:12.32 | ZogG | faina is common female name, that's why i asked |
| 19:12.42 | faina | not here in the US |
| 19:12.46 | vdv | very dissappointed with my n900... |
| 19:12.50 | ZogG | MohammadAG, have you started to study already? |
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| 19:13.03 | ZogG | vdv, give it to me than |
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| 19:13.17 | MohammadAG | ZogG, yeah :) |
| 19:13.18 | ZogG | khertan, hey buddy, sup |
| 19:13.39 | ZogG | MohammadAG where and what? tehnion? computer science? |
| 19:13.58 | ZogG | slonopotamus, privet medved =) |
| 19:14.06 | vdv | ZogG, will i become something instead of it? |
| 19:14.25 | slonopotamus | ZogG: zdraste :-/ |
| 19:14.34 | MohammadAG | ZogG, mchena atm |
| 19:14.36 | ZogG | vdv, you'll become great wizard, if i understood your question right |
| 19:14.47 | ZogG | MohammadAG, what about psyco? |
| 19:15.05 | ZogG | and hebrew? |
| 19:15.51 | MohammadAG | well, that's the mchena |
| 19:16.11 | vdv | ZogG, that was receive.. |
| 19:16.36 | vdv | i just miss up german and english words (bekommen == receive) |
| 19:16.37 | ZogG | MohammadAG for hebrew? or mehina is psyco? |
| 19:16.46 | MohammadAG | hebrew |
| 19:16.57 | vdv | *mess up |
| 19:17.22 | ZogG | vdv sorry pal, ich nicht shprehen ze duetch, but if you want to give me your n900 as present i'll be more than glad |
| 19:17.34 | ZogG | MohammadAG what about psyco? |
| 19:18.23 | ZogG | btw can someone explain why tizen and not meego2? |
| 19:18.44 | faina | ZogG: IMO our corporate masters are insane |
| 19:18.47 | slonopotamus | politics, i think |
| 19:19.02 | faina | or at least directionless |
| 19:19.19 | ZogG | i just don't get it, jumping from place to place |
| 19:19.23 | MohammadAG | ZogG, screw that, mer's back |
| 19:19.41 | ZogG | they are losing money already, why would they spend more? |
| 19:19.54 | faina | IMO, Intel desperately needs a OS that can run on intel chips, Android seems tied to ARM. So they went hunting for a partner |
| 19:19.57 | ZogG | MohammadAG, mer is not enduser |
| 19:19.58 | MohammadAG | talk to elop |
| 19:20.05 | MohammadAG | MeeGo was enduser? |
| 19:20.13 | faina | it was the goal. |
| 19:20.15 | MohammadAG | which platform had MeeGo on it? |
| 19:20.26 | slonopotamus | so... $100 for porting tsc2301 driver onto 2.6.38 :) who'll give a bigger bid? |
| 19:20.27 | MohammadAG | faina, in reality, was it gonna achieve the goal? |
| 19:21.23 | faina | MohammadAG: beats me. All I can see is intel that intel is probably worried that all the growth is in the mobile market, and they're not shipping any chipsets there |
| 19:21.31 | ZogG | but mer is doesn't have vendor, that's my point |
| 19:21.36 | MohammadAG | users wouldn't have been interested in MeeGo if it hadn't been for Swipe |
| 19:21.41 | MohammadAG | and that's Harmattan, not MeeGo |
| 19:21.49 | MohammadAG | ZogG, MeeGo did, did it have any devices? |
| 19:21.51 | ZogG | and untill someone do release phone with it, it has nothing to do with non devs =( |
| 19:22.11 | faina | Original linux started out as a thing you used to replace your default OS with. It looks like we're going back to that place for the mobile world |
| 19:22.23 | ZogG | MohammadAG, harmattan was bsed on meego or am i wrong? |
| 19:22.31 | MohammadAG | true, but was it MeeGo? |
| 19:22.44 | ZogG | faina, the problem is closed phones and drivers |
| 19:22.46 | faina | ZogG: as far as I could tell is it was a hybrid. used some meego libraries but packages like maemo |
| 19:22.52 | wmarone | harmattan was not meego |
| 19:23.04 | MohammadAG | it was far from MeeGo |
| 19:23.15 | faina | ZogG: look at all the work that was done reverse engineering drivers in the PC/Laptop world. |
| 19:23.21 | MohammadAG | the only common factor would be libmeegotouch |
| 19:23.23 | ZogG | anyway i want some os tht actually running on phones |
| 19:23.26 | ZogG | natively |
| 19:23.29 | MohammadAG | iOS |
| 19:23.40 | ZogG | i have iphone |
| 19:23.42 | MohammadAG | actually |
| 19:23.48 | MohammadAG | all OSs run natively on phones |
| 19:23.49 | ZogG | i cn switch it with you for n950 |
| 19:24.00 | MohammadAG | I'd like an HTML5 kernel, would be interesting |
| 19:24.05 | MohammadAG | I don't have my N950 |
| 19:24.06 | wmarone | ZogG: maybe samsung will do something not stupid and release hardware for this platform we can work with. Who knows. |
| 19:24.10 | ZogG | let me correct myself i want linux os running on my phone |
| 19:24.18 | ZogG | and android is not linux =) |
| 19:24.35 | MohammadAG | technically, it is, linux is just a kernel |
| 19:24.43 | faina | http://wiki.debian.org/Mobile |
| 19:24.57 | ZogG | wmarone, i don't have that much money to buy phone every month just to check if it will be supported and has any future |
| 19:25.58 | ZogG | faina nothing there |
| 19:26.07 | ZogG | MohammadAG you know what i mean |
| 19:26.10 | faina | ZogG: I want a posix-like linux environment on my phone too. |
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| 19:26.25 | slonopotamus | ZogG: the problem is a lack of software |
| 19:26.41 | ZogG | it's a pitty i couldn't get hp touchpad |
| 19:26.51 | faina | the debian wiki points to a few projects that may or may not actually run on a phone. |
| 19:26.52 | MohammadAG | slonopotamus++ |
| 19:26.58 | MohammadAG | and the lack of APIs doesn't help |
| 19:27.06 | ZogG | slonopotamus btw it Daniel ported funtoo on it =) |
| 19:27.27 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@unaffiliated/ex-opesa) |
| 19:27.29 | faina | MohammadAG: isn't it more there are too many half-finished APIs? |
| 19:27.34 | ZogG | i'll end up buying android phone |
| 19:27.39 | faina | gtk, qt, qt-declarative... |
| 19:27.45 | MohammadAG | faina, not those APIs |
| 19:27.51 | MohammadAG | usually apps are for something like a service |
| 19:27.57 | MohammadAG | What's missing? closed apps |
| 19:28.18 | faina | ZogG: there's a handful of android phones that have unlocked boot loaders. Which would at least allow you to switch to something more open. |
| 19:28.20 | ZogG | closed apps are fun, isn't it? |
| 19:28.21 | slonopotamus | MohammadAG: apis are less relevant. linux has at least three ui libs, but no single working mobile ui. |
| 19:28.28 | MohammadAG | people are buying iPhones for apps like Viber, Whatsapp |
| 19:28.40 | MohammadAG | slonopotamus, you clearly haven't used libmeegotouch then |
| 19:28.46 | ZogG | faina, but drivers and support |
| 19:28.59 | ZogG | android is what it is coz of Google |
| 19:29.00 | faina | ZogG: Have you seen cyanogenmod? |
| 19:29.01 | MohammadAG | I was referring to web service APIs |
| 19:29.08 | ZogG | coz they know to promote and support |
| 19:29.09 | MohammadAG | Shazam's missing, there's no API |
| 19:29.13 | ZogG | faina, yes |
| 19:29.17 | MohammadAG | Whatsapp, it's built on XMPP, but no API |
| 19:29.22 | MohammadAG | Viber, closed crap, no API |
| 19:29.23 | slonopotamus | MohammadAG: "lib" in its word is a hint to me |
| 19:29.41 | MohammadAG | slonopotamus, Harmattan's UI works fine |
| 19:29.42 | ZogG | MohammadAG, whatsapp is not free anymore |
| 19:29.52 | ZogG | and viber wouldn't be for a long time i think |
| 19:29.54 | slonopotamus | MohammadAG: works fine where? in harmattan; |
| 19:29.55 | MohammadAG | it's free for Symbian uses |
| 19:29.56 | slonopotamus | ? |
| 19:29.57 | faina | I think there are drivers available for some phones. |
| 19:30.03 | MohammadAG | slonopotamus, yes |
| 19:30.22 | faina | Though it might be like the nightmare of 3d drivers on desktop linux |
| 19:30.29 | ZogG | faina, think twice |
| 19:30.47 | ZogG | or optimus nightmare for laptops =) |
| 19:30.48 | slonopotamus | MohammadAG: that's the point. there is no such thing as a standalone "Harmattan UI". there's "Harmattan UI as a part of Harmattan OS" |
| 19:31.13 | MohammadAG | there's hildon, no one worked on it |
| 19:31.18 | ZogG | MohammadAG, it was free for iOS for a while too |
| 19:31.35 | MohammadAG | people still use it over free XMPP |
| 19:31.35 | slonopotamus | yep. and maybe it was wrong. |
| 19:32.20 | ZogG | MohammadAG, there is a good reason for that |
| 19:32.33 | ZogG | common user doesn't care or knows what is XMPP |
| 19:32.38 | ZogG | he want app that works |
| 19:32.50 | ZogG | when it's not other client |
| 19:33.00 | MohammadAG | Facebook chat? |
| 19:33.03 | MohammadAG | it's XMPP based |
| 19:33.04 | ZogG | but app that makes everything for you you just sent msgs |
| 19:33.17 | slonopotamus | https://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/hildon is it fremantle hildon? |
| 19:33.30 | ZogG | and i mean no need in registration and various clients |
| 19:33.50 | ZogG | jut one client that works on all devices and knows if your friends have it |
| 19:34.41 | MohammadAG | I guess we could hit Whatsapp |
| 19:34.46 | MohammadAG | I wonder if the idea's patented |
| 19:35.05 | ZogG | what exactly? |
| 19:35.09 | ZogG | viber is the same |
| 19:35.12 | ZogG | and talkbox |
| 19:35.18 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@unaffiliated/ex-opesa) |
| 19:35.37 | MohammadAG | anyone wanna set up an XMPP server that's free and uses numbers as usernames? |
| 19:35.46 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@213.16.86.179) |
| 19:35.52 | slonopotamus | numbers suck |
| 19:35.58 | slonopotamus | :P |
| 19:36.10 | ZogG | slonopotamus, end user wouldn't know |
| 19:36.20 | MohammadAG | that's how Whatsapp works :p |
| 19:36.25 | MohammadAG | enter your phone number |
| 19:36.29 | slonopotamus | ZogG: icq users do. |
| 19:36.31 | MohammadAG | it runs through your contact list |
| 19:36.47 | MohammadAG | sees which numbers it has on the server, and shows them in the UI |
| 19:37.23 | ZogG | slonopotamus, you didn't get, there is difference between to get number as nickname or to use indefication as phone number, as[ecially as it runs on phone |
| 19:37.42 | MohammadAG | only concern for me is verification |
| 19:37.54 | MohammadAG | sending SMSs for registration is costly |
| 19:38.19 | ZogG | MohammadAG, use email instead |
| 19:38.41 | ZogG | MohammadAG, use gtalk as base at all so no need in server |
| 19:38.46 | MohammadAG | and that confirms it's your number how? |
| 19:39.18 | MohammadAG | what prevents me from using your number and sending messages to your gf so she breaks up with you? |
| 19:39.24 | ZogG | tricky question =) |
| 19:39.34 | ZogG | you had to ruin everything ah? |
| 19:39.54 | ZogG | MohammadAG, she wouldn't =P |
| 19:39.55 | MohammadAG | there's a reason whatsapp confirms your number |
| 19:40.04 | MohammadAG | ZogG, not after what you said to her |
| 19:40.34 | ZogG | she knows i have some dudes over internet that can joke |
| 19:40.38 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 19:40.47 | MohammadAG | what if you say I'm breaking up with you |
| 19:40.54 | MohammadAG | she wouldn't know it's a dude over the internet |
| 19:40.56 | MohammadAG | it's your number |
| 19:40.56 | ZogG | she is from yamen and has no understanding in computers |
| 19:41.32 | ZogG | MohammadAG, i have an idea |
| 19:41.49 | ZogG | you use whatsapp as registration approval |
| 19:41.56 | ZogG | =) |
| 19:42.08 | MohammadAG | wow, that works on Harmattan how? |
| 19:42.11 | MohammadAG | we're back to step 1 |
| 19:42.38 | ZogG | you need to have two phones =) |
| 19:42.57 | ZogG | it would be migration from old phone |
| 19:43.22 | ZogG | anyway n9 is for geeks |
| 19:43.39 | ZogG | or ucan try to email whatsapp devs |
| 19:45.23 | MohammadAG | N9's for geeks? |
| 19:45.26 | MohammadAG | you're very wrong |
| 19:45.30 | MohammadAG | geeks would hate the N9 |
| 19:45.40 | MohammadAG | the N9's your typical phone |
| 19:45.44 | MohammadAG | it's no N900 |
| 19:48.01 | frals | tss |
| 19:48.05 | frals | im a geek and i love the n9 |
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| 20:12.16 | Sazpaimon_ | Anyone here familliar with pulseaudio codin |
| 20:12.17 | Sazpaimon_ | g |
| 20:12.37 | Sazpaimon_ | I have a program that's using pa_stream_begin_write and pa_stream_cancel_write as well as PA_CONTEXT_NOFLAGS |
| 20:12.45 | Sazpaimon_ | none of these exist in maemo's PA |
| 20:12.53 | Sazpaimon_ | is there a workaround that anyone knows? |
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| 20:27.49 | merlin1991 | MohammadAG: what's the problem with sms? |
| 20:28.01 | merlin1991 | the only thing is you'd need local numbers in each country |
| 20:29.15 | MohammadAG | merlin1991, yeah... |
| 20:29.20 | MohammadAG | can you afford that? |
| 20:30.07 | merlin1991 | well no, but I bet if we do that within the mamemo community we could get lines in a few countries |
| 20:30.35 | merlin1991 | like I can'T afford lines everywhere, but donate the austrian one to the project would be possible |
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| 21:45.22 | luke-jr | it would be interesting if someone set up a SMS XMPP gateway <.< |
| 21:45.39 | luke-jr | bypassing SMS when both numbers are connected to it possibly |
| 21:48.33 | faina | that seems like an alteration to the xmpp servers routing protocol? Also how would the sms get back to the xmpp server? |
| 21:48.51 | faina | I know there's internet to sms gateways for some mobile phone networks. |
| 21:48.55 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (~wtfisme@ross154.net) |
| 21:50.16 | luke-jr | faina: the same way people reply to Google Voice SMS |
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| 21:54.48 | faina | luke-jr: I think it requires the cooperation of the mobile phone network. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_gateway |
| 21:56.09 | faina | It does look like there are companies that'll sell you 2-way sms services though |
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| 22:37.16 | DocScrutinizer | you got problems :-P the question is: who's going to *pay* for all those SMS? |
| 22:37.36 | *** join/#maemo eqs (~egs@quassel/developer/egs) |
| 22:40.37 | faina | Yeah, that's why my solution is don't use SMSes but instead stay connected to my jabber server 24/7 |
| 22:41.18 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (~n6pfk__@pool-74-110-218-2.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:42.11 | DocScrutinizer | I stay on irc 24/7, and I could stay on my public server box 24/7 as well (actually I do with IRC bouncer ZNC already) |
| 22:42.56 | faina | I'm still trying to decide if I like IRC... |
| 22:43.06 | DocScrutinizer | and my gsm carrier offers SMS notification on inbound email for free |
| 22:44.00 | DocScrutinizer | I for ure like it better than jabber |
| 22:44.02 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B (~csb@ipv4-95-152-205-90.static.as8844.net) |
| 22:44.29 | faina | the jabber group chat has some serious issues. |
| 22:44.42 | faina | but for point-to-point jabber seems a bit more straight forward? |
| 22:45.09 | DocScrutinizer | how so? |
| 22:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | no issues with /query faina, or whomever I want to reach. As long as I know that person is logged in to a certain IRC network... |
| 22:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | and I know the nickname |
| 22:47.17 | *** join/#maemo Macor (macer@lasziv.reprehensible.net) |
| 22:48.17 | DocScrutinizer | and after all there's still SIP as well, has also a chat function |
| 22:48.45 | DocScrutinizer | aah I forgot I'm 24/7 online with my SIP account of course |
| 22:49.21 | DocScrutinizer | and via 3G SIP VoIP even works quite well with my carrier |
| 22:50.07 | DocScrutinizer | maybe a bit laggy |
| 22:50.57 | chem|st | moo |
| 22:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | moo chem|st |
| 22:51.17 | chem|st | jabber has proper encryption layers... |
| 22:51.23 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 22:52.10 | chem|st | but most clients do not support the full spectrum of jabber so who cares |
| 22:52.18 | DocScrutinizer | I rarely need encrypted realtime duplex communication |
| 22:52.58 | chem|st | thats you... |
| 22:53.13 | chem|st | what about terrorists? |
| 22:53.16 | DocScrutinizer | yup, and if I'd need, there's ZRTP |
| 22:53.27 | chem|st | rofl |
| 22:53.43 | chem|st | bad joke I know |
| 22:53.55 | chem|st | reboot |
| 22:54.31 | DocScrutinizer | terrorists???? will not tuch encryption with a 10 feet pole usually, as that is like shouting "watch here, I'm going to do nasty" |
| 22:55.16 | faina | distracted by coworkers |
| 22:55.33 | DocScrutinizer | terrorists use steganography or simple old codewords |
| 22:57.33 | DocScrutinizer | or nothing of all that, as they are stupid as a cut down tree - otherwise they were not interested in terrorism |
| 22:57.47 | chem|st | ;) |
| 22:58.08 | chem|st | off to bed... happy easter! |
| 22:58.42 | DocScrutinizer | and a merry new year |
| 23:05.59 | *** join/#maemo loft306 (~Thumper@tuxhacker/loft306) |
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| 23:16.05 | faina | DocScrutinizer: /query <username> opens up a direct message with them? |
| 23:16.21 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 23:24.27 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@host248-180-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:24.28 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@Maemo/community/contributor/Andy80) |
| 23:25.37 | DocScrutinizer | you also can /query with infobot ;-) |
| 23:25.41 | DocScrutinizer | ~query |
| 23:25.41 | infobot | talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :) |
| 23:26.08 | faina | one other question... the /query rooms are they actually treated as rooms or as just as extra buffers? (Though that might be better asked in #emacs) |
| 23:26.46 | faina | I think I've seen an infobot in other channels? |
| 23:27.01 | faina | Somone/thing in #python remaps pastebins |
| 23:27.03 | DocScrutinizer | queries are (in)direct client to client, they are not like rooms that can get joined by other 3rd parties |
| 23:27.12 | DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo |
| 23:27.12 | infobot | I'm on 120 channels: #debian/1071, #meego/397, #maemo/324, #kde/323, #asterisk/204, #gsoc/174, #webos-internals/172, #wowuidev/159, #wowace/138, #oe/137, #harmattan/121, #wowhead/120, #openmoko/103, #htc-linux/75, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #uclibc/63, #tomcat/63, #utah/60, #bzflag/59, #curseforge/55, #asterisk-dev/54, #diablofans/53, #sc2mapster/48, #slug/46, #edev/43, #riftuidev/42, #/37, #uphpu/35, #elinux/31, #norganna/29, #gllug/24, ##kierra/24, ... |
| 23:27.12 | infobot | i've cached 4932 users, 3589 unique users, distributed over 120 channels. |
| 23:28.00 | faina | Ah, is there a way to find what channels there are? |
| 23:28.19 | DocScrutinizer | yup, usually your client has a command for that |
| 23:28.37 | faina | is there a way to get a count before you do the query? |
| 23:28.37 | DocScrutinizer | sth like /channels or /chanlist or dunno |
| 23:29.05 | faina | A long time ago I tried a channel list (I think) and got bored of watching my screen scroll for several minutes |
| 23:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | probably not, as even my client warns me about the traffic that "F5" will cause |
| 23:29.47 | DocScrutinizer | yup, probably several 1000s of channels |
| 23:30.24 | DocScrutinizer | there's an URL / a webpage somewhere |
| 23:30.37 | DocScrutinizer | supposed to list all freenode channels |
| 23:30.56 | DocScrutinizer | probably next to freenode web frontend |
| 23:31.04 | DocScrutinizer | aka gateway |
| 23:31.26 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.215.206.130) |
| 23:31.33 | faina | http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist |
| 23:31.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://webchat.freenode.net/ |
| 23:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 23:32.06 | faina | I wonder what the sort order is. |
| 23:32.16 | faina | Ah users.... |
| 23:32.25 | faina | No wonder #ubuntu is never quiet |
| 23:33.41 | DocScrutinizer | >>Searched for ''. 10864 matching entries found.<< :-D |
| 23:33.45 | faina | some channels on that list include # and some don't? I thought all irc channel names started with # |
| 23:37.28 | DocScrutinizer | some start with ## |
| 23:37.45 | faina | the ## is a temporary channel? |
| 23:37.54 | DocScrutinizer | somewhat, yes |
| 23:38.28 | DocScrutinizer | non-official or whatever channels. You probably mustn't create #ibm, but you may create ##ibm |
| 23:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 23:39.01 | faina | ok |
| 23:39.06 | Sc0rpius | there are also local channels that start with & |
| 23:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | duh? |
| 23:39.18 | faina | local? |
| 23:39.20 | Sc0rpius | but I don't think Freenode supports that |
| 23:39.37 | Sc0rpius | yeah in IRC networks you can create a server local channel that are not network wide channel |
| 23:39.42 | Sc0rpius | it only exists in the server you're connected |
| 23:40.04 | Sc0rpius | you can try in a network like EFnet something like: /join &test |
| 23:40.08 | Sc0rpius | and it will work. |
| 23:40.09 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, a voluntary netsplit? nice ;-P |
| 23:40.45 | Sc0rpius | my point is not all channels start with # :P |
| 23:41.16 | faina | Ok |
| 23:41.27 | DocScrutinizer | the fact I never know where chat.freenode.net will connect me to will somewhat defeat the purpose of those local channels ;-) |
| 23:43.13 | DocScrutinizer | faina: if you ever run across a command like /writeall or /amsg or sth like that - beware, it sends to all channels you're logged in and that will make freenode ban you for a week or two |
| 23:43.29 | faina | ah thank you |
| 23:43.45 | faina | though right now I'm only logged into 2-4 channels |
| 23:44.02 | faina | I can see the temptation to log into scores though. |
| 23:44.03 | DocScrutinizer | might suffice, depending on size of the channels |
| 23:44.13 | faina | ah ok. |
| 23:44.33 | faina | Also ... do you ever suffer from channel overload? |
| 23:45.29 | DocScrutinizer | idoru was the nasty bot doing that |
| 23:45.49 | DocScrutinizer | if you send to several channels where idoru is a user, you get klined |
| 23:46.13 | DocScrutinizer | faina: channel overload? like join-throttling? |
| 23:46.14 | faina | is there a way to recognize bots? |
| 23:46.20 | DocScrutinizer | not reallya |
| 23:46.33 | faina | more ... puny human brain being overloaded with too many different threads of conversation |
| 23:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | except Turing test ;-D |
| 23:46.52 | DocScrutinizer | sure, all the time |
| 23:47.42 | faina | Bots are getting closer and closer to passing that test. |
| 23:47.50 | DocScrutinizer | the trick is to ruthlessly ignore when things don't sound interesting |
| 23:49.11 | faina | One of the things that seems appealing of IRC over something like twitter... is twitter will helpfully keep track of all the messages, including when you werent there. so you end up further and further behind. |
| 23:49.25 | faina | IRC was nice because when I was disconnected I could pretend it doesn't exist |
| 23:50.06 | DocScrutinizer | or you look at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 23:50.33 | DocScrutinizer | but yeah, irc is inherently volatile |
| 23:50.46 | faina | Nooooo! ;) (yeah I've looked at that to see what someone was currently talking about while I was out) |
| 23:51.01 | faina | also not all channels log |
| 23:51.06 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 23:53.33 | faina | thank you for the pointers to irc culture |
| 23:53.39 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 23:54.07 | DocScrutinizer | if you don't mind (I like to read that one myself every now and then): |
| 23:54.09 | DocScrutinizer | ~ask |
| 23:54.10 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 23:54.13 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 23:54.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~question |
| 23:54.20 | infobot | hmm... question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 23:54.20 | Sazpaimon_ | so I just installed libgcc1, libstdc++6, and gcc4.4-base from ubuntu lucid to my N900 |
| 23:54.26 | Sazpaimon_ | there were no conflicts |
| 23:54.28 | Sazpaimon_ | no errors |
| 23:54.33 | Sazpaimon_ | and now lightspark is starting |
| 23:54.43 | Sazpaimon_ | i hope I didn't break anything else though |
| 23:55.12 | faina | as long as there wasn't already a libgcc1 / libstdc++6 it should be good |
| 23:55.53 | Sazpaimon_ | there was |
| 23:55.59 | Sazpaimon_ | it replaced them |
| 23:56.07 | Sazpaimon_ | everything is still running fine |
| 23:56.15 | faina | have you rebooted the phone? |
| 23:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 23:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | what? |
| 23:56.27 | Sazpaimon_ | no not yet, pretty sure I'm about to reflash it |
| 23:56.39 | faina | Linux doesn't delete files until all of the open file handles have been closed |
| 23:56.41 | DocScrutinizer | you installed a new libgcc etc? possibly a x86 based one? |
| 23:56.52 | Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, why would I do that |
| 23:56.56 | faina | so if something had already opened the old libgcc1 open, it should still have a handle to it |
| 23:56.57 | Sazpaimon_ | why would dpkg allow that |
| 23:57.12 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~gecko@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 23:57.22 | faina | dpkg should toss a warning if the architecture doesn't match |
| 23:57.28 | Sazpaimon_ | exactly |
| 23:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | faina: exactly. Next boot goes BOOM |
| 23:57.34 | Sazpaimon_ | Im going to reboot now and see what happens |
| 23:58.05 | DocScrutinizer | prepare for bootloop |
| 23:58.08 | faina | though... there is something you could do |
| 23:58.11 | Sazpaimon_ | lucid's armel libstdc++6 is linked to 2.4>=libc6 |
| 23:58.42 | faina | extract just the so from the old version and drop it in place |
| 23:58.44 | DocScrutinizer | sure, do a backup with backupmenu. But you should've done that before you replaced system libs |
| 23:58.57 | faina | e.g. so you'd have libgcc1.x.y and libgcc1.a.b |
| 23:58.58 | Sazpaimon_ | DocScrutinizer, why, I only will need to reflash rootfs |
| 23:59.13 | DocScrutinizer | shrugs |
| 23:59.22 | DocScrutinizer | your reflash, not mine :-) |
| 23:59.48 | Sazpaimon_ | yeah, it seems suck on the bootup lights |
| 23:59.52 | Sazpaimon_ | *stuck |