| 00:01.07 | rmitage | based on number of posts, thanks or the ratio between the two maybe? |
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| 00:02.43 | DocScrutinizer | also based on your karma from activities, as of http://maemo.org/profile/view/joerg_rw/ |
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| 00:04.22 | DocScrutinizer | add in number of months you are a member of community (aka account age), and this determines your weekly "wages", with a "bonus" for posts that got thanked by senior members |
| 00:06.32 | DocScrutinizer | PLUS I *DEMAND* a "frown" button that is enabled for senior members only and will reduce the account of the one posting the msg that get "frowned" by a noticeable amount of $currency |
| 00:07.54 | DocScrutinizer | spammers never would arrive to get enough balance on their virtual currency account to post *any* spam |
| 00:08.25 | rmitage | hehehe a frown button would also ensure some posters like a certain one from the uk would spare us all from their ramblings |
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| 00:10.25 | DocScrutinizer | maybe you could even "donate" $currency to other users, as an emphasized form of hitting "tnaks" |
| 00:10.45 | DocScrutinizer | "thanks" |
| 00:11.20 | rmitage | Seems like a great idea. I swear some people there get their kicks from annoying everyone else |
| 00:11.36 | rmitage | I wonder how feasible it is |
| 00:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | technically? no problem |
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| 00:12.20 | DocScrutinizer | manpower though... :-S |
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| 00:13.38 | DocScrutinizer | it seems maemo IT is semi-orphaned |
| 00:14.38 | DocScrutinizer | evrybody's riding the meego-train now - a pity |
| 00:15.09 | rmitage | yeah :/ |
| 00:15.17 | DocScrutinizer | as meego as in HARM is a red herring |
| 00:15.35 | DocScrutinizer | and meegoCE isn't much better |
| 00:16.44 | rmitage | yeah? I thought it might be a way to extend the n900's life a bit if compatible with harmattan |
| 00:17.16 | rmitage | isn't it the case? |
| 00:17.58 | DocScrutinizer | meh, how's N900-meegoCE going to be compatible with HARM? not even inputmethod is implementable on N900 |
| 00:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | the whole GUI concept wails epically on N900 |
| 00:18.34 | DocScrutinizer | fails* |
| 00:19.00 | rmitage | hadn't thought of that tbqh... capacitive screen. |
| 00:19.09 | DocScrutinizer | meegoCE is having a hard time to be compatible on N9 |
| 00:19.34 | DocScrutinizer | as the whole swipe-UI is closed |
| 00:19.57 | DocScrutinizer | btw hates the swipe-UI concept |
| 00:20.43 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: what are you saying now? =) |
| 00:20.53 | DocScrutinizer | to be more specific I hate the idea of not usually closing any app, and also of not having any homescreen whatsoever |
| 00:20.56 | rmitage | haven't seen much of it to be honest. what's wrong with it? |
| 00:21.08 | rmitage | oh |
| 00:21.37 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Swipe-down (in latest) |
| 00:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, a hack |
| 00:22.42 | DocScrutinizer | this is a GUI for retard^Wtypical smartphone users |
| 00:23.29 | javispedro | .. |
| 00:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | no way it's intended to "bring PC experience to the phone" as NIT always been |
| 00:24.13 | javispedro | are you seriously complaining that the lack of a close button is the cause of that? =) |
| 00:24.19 | javispedro | cause it's quite easy to reenable in the theme file |
| 00:24.33 | DocScrutinizer | I outright can't see how OOo is ever running in a usable way on N9 |
| 00:24.40 | javispedro | (MeegoCE has always had a close button) |
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| 00:25.21 | javispedro | it will run same as on the N900: barely. the windows manager is only slightly worse. |
| 00:25.40 | javispedro | (with its lack of support for xrandr... :( ) |
| 00:25.56 | DocScrutinizer | the idea of easy porting of standard linux X apps to the phone is completely obsolete |
| 00:26.54 | rmitage | well I guess they're trying to appeal to phone operators and a broader audience :/ |
| 00:27.07 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: for the sake of god, please try it before complaining |
| 00:27.11 | DocScrutinizer | figures javispedro moving thru the dropdown app menus with the cursor keys of the vkbd... ooops no cursor keys |
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| 00:27.47 | DocScrutinizer | and no hwkbd at all |
| 00:27.53 | SpeedEvil | OO was very, very sluggish when I tries it in qemu |
| 00:27.54 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 00:27.58 | SpeedEvil | easy debina |
| 00:28.09 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: the lack of vkb integration is a point, but it is fixable. |
| 00:28.37 | DocScrutinizer | the whole concept of the GUI is *not* "fixable" |
| 00:28.48 | javispedro | but what's the problem with the UI |
| 00:29.32 | javispedro | I've been running gedit for a while and I've had virtually no problems except for the friggin ugly gray bar at the bottom that occupies a lot of space which is clearly a bug |
| 00:29.40 | DocScrutinizer | it's been designed off the scratch with smartphone in mind, rather than "PC experience" |
| 00:30.35 | DocScrutinizer | *from scratch* |
| 00:31.07 | javispedro | there's no problem with the window manager save for the gray bar when running X11 apps |
| 00:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | even the hardware isn't capable of playing PC |
| 00:31.23 | javispedro | the largest problem is called "capacitive". |
| 00:31.28 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 00:31.41 | SpeedEvil | I have to say, I've not had major issues with the capacitive screen. |
| 00:31.43 | DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly |
| 00:32.02 | DocScrutinizer | c-ts is the killer for a decent PC-like UI |
| 00:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | that plus the lack of hw-kbd |
| 00:33.03 | javispedro | sighs as we already had the "they broke the PC-like UI" war when Fremantle was released |
| 00:33.08 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: no surprise, as highlighting for c&p isn't working anywhere virtually |
| 00:33.13 | javispedro | with the 64! pixel height buttons and worse |
| 00:33.19 | rmitage | still those linux ports with their tiny buttons must be a nightmare on capacitive screens |
| 00:33.57 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: hmm - point |
| 00:33.58 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 00:34.25 | SpeedEvil | Is there a drawing app in ovi? |
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| 00:36.35 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 00:36.38 | DocScrutinizer | this been the right sentence for all of us to ponder about it til next time we talk about it |
| 00:36.42 | SpeedEvil | Some people need set on fire. |
| 00:36.56 | SpeedEvil | 'Face painting news' |
| 00:37.01 | SpeedEvil | yet another RSS app |
| 00:37.40 | javispedro | Face painting news? |
| 00:37.52 | rmitage | lol who would have known from that name :p |
| 00:38.26 | SpeedEvil | It could be an application which would violate the terms of service of ovi store actually. |
| 00:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | we've seen awesome paintings, on a competition level, made on N900. I've never seen same on iPhone, nor will we see it on N9 |
| 00:39.21 | SpeedEvil | wonders why the store is not responding |
| 00:41.16 | javispedro | Ovi QA is done by Elop himself who rejects any potentially useful app =) |
| 00:41.42 | SpeedEvil | ah - 'my little artist' |
| 00:41.44 | javispedro | j/k, there's at least one useful app ;P |
| 00:41.54 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: another RSS reader |
| 00:41.57 | javispedro | ? |
| 00:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | I bet there ill be zealots that try to teach us we're "holding it wrong" and with a c-ts you don't paint anymore (and don't c&p anymore, and don't want rich menues anymore...), but rather do XY and we all had to switch to Xy now |
| 00:42.04 | SpeedEvil | Drawing |
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| 00:44.23 | rmitage | going to bed. c ya guys |
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| 00:45.37 | DocScrutinizer | same zealots that teach us that no app should bother about filesystem and pathnames anymore, as some magic tracker will offer "just the right files" for each app, each usecase, always |
| 00:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | what a hybris |
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| 00:48.13 | DocScrutinizer | oh, missed that one in my top-10 of the worst ideas and concepts of the past, resurrected in harmattan |
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| 00:50.20 | DocScrutinizer | goes right on top, even before missing close button on #3 and missing c&p and missing homescreen sharing #2 |
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| 00:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | while aegis is master of the universe and not even competing here |
| 01:03.35 | SpeedEvil | i need transparent fingers. |
| 01:04.03 | DocScrutinizer | BWAHAHAHA |
| 01:04.21 | SpeedEvil | the 'my little artist' thing is crap - it's to make pretty patterns only |
| 01:04.25 | DocScrutinizer | the joys of c-ts |
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| 01:04.49 | SpeedEvil | haven't tried a c-stylus |
| 01:04.56 | SpeedEvil | wonders. |
| 01:05.05 | javispedro | they're useless |
| 01:05.19 | javispedro | well, I only tried on the lenovo, which according to some, is absolute crap. |
| 01:06.42 | DocScrutinizer | there are like 6 different technologies of what's called c-ts |
| 01:06.59 | Sc0rpius | Lenovo K1? |
| 01:07.00 | DocScrutinizer | on some a stylus may work, on others... not |
| 01:07.58 | SpeedEvil | a teaspoon works - sort-of, but not on the handle end. |
| 01:08.41 | SpeedEvil | Need to do some playing with resistors and tiny metal disks. |
| 01:09.25 | DocScrutinizer | try a statically charged object |
| 01:10.23 | DocScrutinizer | and try a penny on a wooden stick |
| 01:11.29 | DocScrutinizer | (the former might work on c-ts of electret type, the second with those of RF type) |
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| 01:26.22 | SpeedEvil | isolated penny - no |
| 01:26.51 | SpeedEvil | youne |
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| 01:26.56 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:30.28 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, that'S what I noticed as well, as the ts refuses to work otherwise, when sitting here plugged to charger and I try to operate it with one hand only |
| 01:31.15 | DocScrutinizer | would suggest it's an electret type of c-ts |
| 01:32.12 | DocScrutinizer | (or one that creates the RF dipole between screen electrodes and "GND" rather than between two electrodes of screen) |
| 01:33.17 | DocScrutinizer | aka matrix type |
| 01:33.52 | DocScrutinizer | pulse rows, check for capacitive coupling to cols |
| 01:35.59 | DocScrutinizer | iPhone is said to have electret type, allegedly static charge in electret vanishes in less than 2 years if you're cursed with bad luck |
| 01:42.11 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: if you got a mega high Z voltmeter (like the one heathkit meter based on an electron tube I once had), you may coonect one probe to the USB shielding GND and the other one to a penny, then approach the ts with the penny and watch for charge to build up. Only if that's an electret type c-ts |
| 01:42.30 | DocScrutinizer | open LCD may work too |
| 01:42.49 | SpeedEvil | i'll poke it with the scope tomorrow |
| 01:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | scope is way too low Z |
| 01:43.24 | DocScrutinizer | has usually <=10M input Z |
| 01:43.38 | SpeedEvil | it will show the waveform |
| 01:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | only when it's a RF type |
| 01:44.27 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise all you see are interferences from the LCD driver |
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| 07:34.03 | RST38h | Moo gentlemen |
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| 07:43.22 | freemangordon___ | ~seen Pali |
| 07:43.31 | infobot | pali <~quassel@rohar.kolej.mff.cuni.cz> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 12h 14m 4s ago, saying: 'ping DocScrutinizer'. |
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| 09:11.00 | SpeedEvil | Are nokia warranties - EU - portable across countries? |
| 09:11.59 | SpeedEvil | Could I send my phone to a country that's shipping the n9 for repair, in the hopes of getting a n9 as a replacement? |
| 09:12.59 | SpeedEvil | Though I'd be holding od till there is some clarity on the state of the release image |
| 09:13.10 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 09:13.33 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: also just ask Nokia for a Maemo/Meego phone |
| 09:13.55 | Ikarus | they tried to dump a N8 on me, until I reminded them it's not equivilent by far due to not running proper Linux |
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| 09:34.50 | RST38h | "Although there are talented people still there, a lot of talented folks have left MSFT senior leadership in the past 18 months or so - Liddell, Elop, Muglia, Bach, etc, etc. Although Elop was instrumental in getting the Nokia deal up and going" |
| 09:35.29 | ruskie | RST38h, that basically explains it all |
| 09:35.30 | RST38h | "MSFT is still very strong in the enterprise but to the consumer, MSFT seems completely dead. MSFT has no consumer mindshare any longer" |
| 09:35.39 | RST38h | http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2011/09/friday-friday-friday-microsoft-company.html |
| 09:36.16 | SpeedEvil | imagines that as the announcement of Rebecca Black coming onboard as microsoft head of marketing. |
| 09:37.26 | RST38h | The comments! The comments!!! |
| 09:37.42 | RST38h | "The review results this year looks opposite to the actual work. Good engineers who, is used to own code, are getting 4 and 5, so they are leaving, but the ones, who is awarded the top scores, are unable to manage the inherited code base." |
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| 09:42.50 | RST38h | Even more fun: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=836373 |
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| 09:44.08 | Trewas | in other news nokia announced that they actually started shipping N9 to operators/retailers |
| 09:44.26 | RST38h | OMG |
| 09:44.37 | RST38h | Did they announce it at somebody's personal blog? =) |
| 09:45.13 | hiemanshu | no |
| 09:45.17 | hiemanshu | press.nokia.com |
| 09:45.23 | Trewas | http://www.nokia.fi/nokia/lehdisto/tiedotteet/tiedotteet?newsid=1549733 probably in the wrong language for some :) |
| 09:45.25 | hiemanshu | http://press.nokia.com/2011/09/27/nokia-n9-begins-shipping/ |
| 09:48.54 | SpeedEvil | Surprisingly cheap in some ways |
| 09:49.17 | SpeedEvil | The rumored prices were much higher. |
| 09:49.56 | nid0 | before taxes though, so shop prices probably will be noticeably more |
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| 09:51.24 | SpeedEvil | I forgot VAT - true |
| 09:51.57 | SpeedEvil | Bang on 500 pounds. |
| 09:51.59 | ruskie | yeah VAT and the shops own margin |
| 09:52.10 | ruskie | depending on the shop |
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| 09:53.22 | ruskie | ~aegis |
| 09:53.23 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
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| 11:10.51 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 11:21.10 | DocScrutinizer | hi |
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| 11:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | BWAHAHA >> "With the innovations in industrial design, user interface, **and_the_Qt_developer_experience**, the Nokia N9 sets the bar for how natural technology can feel...<< |
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| 11:44.24 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/MainSearchProductCategory.html?q=n9 16GB 614,99 ⬠- 836,90 ⬠64GB 699,00 ⬠- 1.015,90 ⬠|
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| 11:45.13 | DocScrutinizer | if I buy 2 pcs N900, I also got 64GB and sigma 1GHz CPU ;-P |
| 11:45.28 | DocScrutinizer | for same money to shell out |
| 11:48.04 | brik | but you can't get a pink N900 |
| 11:48.39 | DocScrutinizer | OK no (mostly useless) NFC, but then double screen area, two hw kbds, NO AEGIS lockdown to OVI store... |
| 11:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | and I probably can even find two pink spare N900 2nd-source cases in China, and somebody to mount those for me, and still save enough for a coffee to enjoy all this ;-D |
| 11:51.40 | DocScrutinizer | btw there have been first reports of shadow-images burnt in to amoled screen after as short as a few minutes of static content display |
| 11:51.49 | DocScrutinizer | yet unconfirmed |
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| 11:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | plus a lot of testers frowned on pentile pixel scheme |
| 11:57.53 | DocScrutinizer | on the bright side: it's shiny |
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| 12:11.07 | acidspunk | hey everyone |
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| 12:42.18 | DocScrutinizer | hey |
| 12:44.32 | Cor-Ai | hey |
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| 13:33.50 | MohammadAG | can someone post the greek sum ascii letter |
| 13:35.07 | Sicelo | ΣΣ |
| 13:35.26 | MohammadAG | thanks |
| 13:35.40 | Sicelo | yw. |
| 13:36.02 | MohammadAG | times like this i wish the N950 had cp in browser |
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| 13:36.25 | Sicelo | post it to swaziland :P |
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| 13:50.45 | fizzie | Nitpick time, apologies in advance. Unicode has the "n-ary summation" mathematical operator â, and the Greek capital letter sigma Σ (which are different); there's no "greek sum letter", and definitely no "greek sum ascii letter". |
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| 13:51.56 | Sicelo | apologies accepted |
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| 14:53.41 | DocScrutinizer | actually they differ in rendering on my IRC client here |
| 14:54.09 | DocScrutinizer | math operator way taller |
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| 14:55.01 | DocScrutinizer | possibly using max line height |
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| 18:00.41 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/27/zombie_linux_merger/ <-- erm |
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| 18:50.51 | dm8tbr | ruskie: you missed all the fun in #meego-bar then |
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| 19:25.57 | mece | hello |
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| 22:11.13 | ioan | hi. does CSSU work with kernel power? |
| 22:14.00 | NIN101 | yes |
| 22:17.53 | ioan | thanks |
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| 23:02.41 | Macer | well... my buddy got what he believes is the proper port ... i didnt know these things were so specific |
| 23:02.51 | Macer | lame |
| 23:03.14 | Macer | he said he is going to try to reflow it on wednesday when the ports get there |
| 23:03.29 | Macer | fingers crossed |
| 23:03.42 | SpeedEvil | Good luck. |
| 23:03.49 | Macer | hope i get my n900 back and working soon |
| 23:03.53 | Macer | :-) |
| 23:04.11 | Macer | because there is no way i would ever get an n9 |
| 23:04.14 | Macer | lol |
| 23:04.39 | Macer | maybe an n950 if nokia wasnt being stupid and not releasing it to the public |
| 23:05.01 | Macer | n9 for almost 900 tho? no thanks |
| 23:05.28 | Macer | rip off .. no qwerty either? fail :-) |
| 23:06.01 | Robot101 | I just got a Pre 3 |
| 23:06.19 | Robot101 | pretty cool except my HP webOS profile is on a server which is broken, so I had to hack it to activate it. uh oh. |
| 23:06.44 | Robot101 | but, I've got two phones because I'm an idiot, so I can have a Pre 3 for QWERTY and an N9 as the other |
| 23:07.19 | MohammadAG | N9's pretty good |
| 23:07.29 | MohammadAG | the vkb is good |
| 23:11.29 | javispedro | Robot101: where did you get it? |
| 23:11.36 | Robot101 | javispedro: ebay |
| 23:11.52 | javispedro | hm.. |
| 23:12.26 | MohammadAG | anyone used a Motorola Xoom? |
| 23:13.12 | Robot101 | the keyboard is it's just a smidge bigger than the Pre2 which makes it typable on (at speed) for me |
| 23:13.21 | Robot101 | I'm very used to the N900 keyboard and the Pre 2 was just too small for me |
| 23:13.40 | Robot101 | e-mail just works, unlike Modest which just cries in the corner when it sees my mailboxes |
| 23:13.54 | Robot101 | calendar and contacts sync seamlessly with gmail and facebook |
| 23:24.30 | *** join/#maemo pauly (45faa837@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.250.168.55) |
| 23:24.37 | pauly | hi |
| 23:25.00 | pauly | i miss my n900 |
| 23:25.16 | pauly | i sold it and bought a n8 |
| 23:26.57 | javispedro | that was an error ;P |
| 23:27.42 | Paul123 | lol |
| 23:28.57 | Paul123 | i sold it because it was a constant pain but i miss always having to charge it and flash it all my n8 does is take pics |
| 23:33.41 | chem|st | Paul123: constant pain? I am running testing + devel things + cssu-testing and apart of no-sim error once every ~120 days I have no problem, last time I was force to flash was the PR upgrade |
| 23:34.05 | Paul123 | mines always had problems |
| 23:34.31 | chem|st | I stopped using skype, that made a huge difference! |
| 23:34.34 | Paul123 | having fcam and kernel power messed it up |
| 23:36.05 | Paul123 | i sold my n900 on ebay but now the guy got his money back because he says it dont work but that cant be possible so hopefully he'll send it back |
| 23:36.10 | chem|st | since the cssu camui is fixed (or the bugs changed^^) I use that, for playing with the cam fcam was/is nice but there is no need |
| 23:36.29 | chem|st | he should do that |
| 23:37.01 | Paul123 | paypal send me half my money back |
| 23:37.28 | chem|st | so he got 50% back till he ships the device back to you? |
| 23:37.39 | Paul123 | no he has 100% |
| 23:37.55 | chem|st | for how long? |
| 23:38.07 | chem|st | have you requested the device |
| 23:38.20 | Paul123 | bacause i was too lazy to respond to paypal they beleived him |
| 23:38.30 | Paul123 | yesterday |
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| 23:39.15 | Paul123 | i doubt hes gonna send it lol |
| 23:39.23 | Paul123 | i hope though |
| 23:40.04 | chem|st | request it, and tell paypal, the money is frozen in his account for some days |
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| 23:40.28 | Paul123 | i think it was removed |
| 23:40.30 | chem|st | "to lazy" is no excuse |
| 23:40.32 | Paul123 | the hold |
| 23:40.55 | Paul123 | i know my fault paypal gave me half out of their pocket |
| 23:41.01 | Paul123 | not the buyers |
| 23:41.44 | chem|st | ehrm so you got 50% and paypal refunded 100%? |
| 23:42.21 | *** part/#maemo ioan (ioan@unaffiliated/ioan) |
| 23:42.24 | Paul123 | ya he has all his cash back and paypal gave me 50% because paypal was nice |
| 23:42.41 | Paul123 | hes in st lucia! |
| 23:43.33 | Paul123 | i still have my n900 thats broke and a n8 so i might buy a n9 |
| 23:43.47 | chem|st | I would request the device, either way, if it is broken, I would tell paypal that it was fully functional when you sent it... |
| 23:43.55 | Paul123 | i did |
| 23:44.01 | chem|st | even broken n900s sell on ebay... |
| 23:44.16 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (~andy80@Maemo/community/contributor/Andy80) |
| 23:44.19 | chem|st | and I am sure n8s do too |
| 23:44.23 | Paul123 | ya |
| 23:44.36 | Paul123 | i want to fix my broken one |
| 23:45.09 | Paul123 | mohammad said he might fix my screen and digitizer |
| 23:45.25 | Paul123 | and still got to fix usb |
| 23:47.09 | Paul123 | so hopefully ill get the good n900 back in the mail sell my n8, buy a n9 and ill be happy with a n900 and n9! :) |
