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| 00:37.21 | jargon- | how do i update my n900 to the latest version? |
| 00:39.22 | SpeedEvil | What version are you on att he moment? |
| 00:40.59 | jargon- | hmm how can i tell? |
| 00:42.36 | DocScrutinizer | settings about |
| 00:42.39 | SpeedEvil | settings, scroll to the bottom, hit about product |
| 00:42.51 | jargon- | oh wait. it says here maemo 5 20.2010.36-2 |
| 00:42.58 | SpeedEvil | version 20.2010 is current |
| 00:43.09 | SpeedEvil | current |
| 00:43.33 | jargon- | is that the community ssu? i was told to upgrade to the community ssu |
| 00:43.54 | DocScrutinizer | ~cssu |
| 00:43.54 | infobot | hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 00:44.57 | SpeedEvil | Told by who? |
| 00:46.56 | jargon- | by someone trying to help with my conversation-yim connection issue. i can't get my yim account to connect. gtalk works fine and i can connect to yim in pidgin |
| 00:47.04 | jargon- | but not in Conversation |
| 00:48.03 | SpeedEvil | Well - yes - read that - it's possible it may help |
| 00:48.12 | SpeedEvil | Some bugs have been fixed in cssu |
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| 00:49.52 | jargon- | so i do need to upgrade? |
| 00:50.15 | SpeedEvil | I don't know. There are some issues fixed by cssu |
| 00:50.21 | SpeedEvil | I do not know if this is one o them |
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| 03:43.01 | Macer | wow |
| 03:43.05 | Macer | he is getting serious about it |
| 03:43.10 | Macer | https://picasaweb.google.com/107020777578949615250/Random#5655765772150985250 |
| 03:43.12 | Macer | LOL |
| 03:43.22 | Macer | wish i had that sort of shit in my house :) |
| 03:47.08 | SpeedEvil | Decapping a IC? |
| 03:47.42 | Macer | ? |
| 03:47.56 | Macer | he is trying to figure out the best way to get a new usb port on there |
| 03:48.11 | Macer | he said the one i got from digikey is too tall by 1mm |
| 03:48.18 | Macer | and he is going to order the "right" one on monday |
| 03:49.35 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 03:50.19 | Macer | he said the design sucks heehehe |
| 03:50.24 | Macer | nokia fail |
| 03:50.29 | Macer | there is 0 extra space for it |
| 03:51.15 | Macer | he was going to use solder paste on the pads and use hot air |
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| 05:16.55 | jonwil | hi |
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| 08:22.01 | joga | why does n900 sometimes reboot instead of turning off when I choose "switch off"? |
| 08:24.28 | joga | the UI was lagging for some seconds after unlocking it so I thought I'd reboot it since it helps with that (for a couple of days at least ;)), but when I switched it off, it booted and showed the dim nokia logo and then after a while showed the dots and the keycode prompt |
| 08:25.12 | joga | in this case it didn't matter but I just feel a bit uneasy about the inconsistency |
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| 08:25.52 | joga | (and was wondering if the UI thing had something to do with it) |
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| 08:28.41 | ShadowJK | it will automatically reboot if it hangs for too long |
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| 08:41.27 | markinfo | hi. Is someone using Facebook account in Contacts? It is not possible to go online for me... |
| 08:41.48 | markinfo | maemo5 |
| 08:42.57 | Sicelo | try jabber ... chat.facebook.com |
| 08:43.19 | Sicelo | doesn't have facebook account to test |
| 08:46.36 | joga | ShadowJK, ok, that makes sense then |
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| 08:47.51 | ShadowJK | Someone said facebook changed stuff |
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| 09:35.35 | markinfo | Shadow: "changed stuff" ? Will be Contacts also changed? |
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| 09:47.45 | Sicelo | no. it was just a few details on login. jabber should be ok |
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| 13:13.03 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: moo |
| 13:13.09 | javispedro | mooh. |
| 13:18.19 | hiemanshu | moooh |
| 13:23.55 | Sicelo | ~pwned |
| 13:23.55 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, pwned is like owned, but better. |
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| 18:04.50 | jargon- | does anyone know how to fix the sign-in issue for yahoo on n900 in Conversations with the pidgin protocols installed? signing into yahoo doesn't work |
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| 18:39.54 | jargon- | found the fix: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=970716&postcount=18 |
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| 19:31.05 | jurop88 | hi all |
| 19:31.31 | jurop88 | anybody hanging outthere who knows sysparts/cgroups? |
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| 19:42.53 | jurop88 | @javispedro:congrats for your post about aegis on N9/950 |
| 19:43.53 | javispedro | hah |
| 19:45.13 | jurop88 | I am currently dealing for other 2 spare N900 |
| 19:45.15 | jurop88 | :D |
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| 20:10.26 | jacekowski | javispedro: link? |
| 20:10.58 | javispedro | jacekowski: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575 |
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| 20:14.58 | jacekowski | i think i'll stay with my n8 then |
| 20:15.01 | jacekowski | and try to hack this |
| 20:15.13 | RST38h | OMG you brought djszapi guy out of whatever hole he has been hibernating in! |
| 20:17.02 | RST38h | javispedro: you are screwed now. |
| 20:17.17 | javispedro | RST38h: mostly |
| 20:17.25 | RST38h | javispedro: he won't let go. will have to shoot him or something. |
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| 20:25.03 | merlin1991 | javispedro: I've seen dmesg and find mentioned on in the thread already, how much more of the usual "power commands" i use daily on my n900 are affected in general? |
| 20:25.20 | merlin1991 | "power commands" as in above windoze level ;) |
| 20:25.24 | javispedro | you tell me |
| 20:25.38 | javispedro | I've been thinking about making a list with what aegis stock config forbids |
| 20:26.04 | javispedro | everything kernel related: dmesg, all mounts, inserting modules, nfs, cifs, ntp, rdate, .. |
| 20:26.15 | NIN102 | aebis will forbit making that list :-) |
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| 20:31.14 | ShadowJK | vpn |
| 20:33.53 | ShadowJK | probably also forbids all bluetooth profiles not supported by the OS.. keyboards, mice.. bluetooth tethering (maybe N9 as modem would be allowed but not other way around), etc |
| 20:34.38 | merlin1991 | so in other words, if I want to use the n9 like the n900 I have to flash meegoCE? |
| 20:34.47 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 20:35.09 | ShadowJK | if you need a smartphone you're better off staying with N900 ;-) |
| 20:36.53 | javispedro | for the time being, that is.. |
| 20:37.02 | merlin1991 | thb even if harmattan is that much pita I'd still get it just for the sake of a proper meegoCE kernel that lets me do what I want todo |
| 20:38.26 | ShadowJK | though harmattan os probably wont run on meegoce kernel? |
| 20:40.04 | javispedro | if we were able to run it on a kernel that only differs in a single byte, the problem would be gone |
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| 20:40.50 | merlin1991 | actually about that, there's a lot of "custom kernel" talk on the thread but as far as I've read it it's still impossible to actually run your own kernel |
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| 20:45.08 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: yeah |
| 20:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | and some incompetent idiotic management at Nokia thinks this is the way things should be, so unless the engineers find a way (and we all are smart on how we communicate about it) this won't probably ever change |
| 20:47.34 | DocScrutinizer | rsp won't last for >2..4 weeks |
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| 20:49.22 | merlin1991 | invoking the legalese is virtually a call to us to grab the torches and pitchforks. and next post already brings the torches |
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| 20:56.05 | corecode | o hi |
| 20:56.17 | corecode | anybody have problems with xmpp voice connections? |
| 20:56.24 | corecode | it suddenly stopped working for me |
| 20:57.17 | corecode | other side can hear me, but i don't hear anything |
| 20:58.11 | corecode | and it keeps saying "connecting", occasionally showing a "connected 0:15..." or so, but then it switches back to connecting |
| 21:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | quite common problem with NAT |
| 21:00.28 | corecode | i thought so too |
| 21:00.36 | corecode | but even with a public IP it doesn't work |
| 21:00.37 | DocScrutinizer | inbound datastreams fail |
| 21:01.01 | corecode | although a firewall might have been in place |
| 21:01.02 | ruskie | even public ips can have nat infront |
| 21:01.11 | ruskie | my cellco has that infact |
| 21:01.17 | DocScrutinizer | public IP behind a NAT? or plain direct net access? |
| 21:01.26 | corecode | what does it translate then to? |
| 21:01.31 | ruskie | no clue |
| 21:01.38 | corecode | ok |
| 21:01.38 | ruskie | but that's the info I got from them |
| 21:01.44 | ruskie | their tech people at that |
| 21:01.45 | corecode | well, the odd thing is that it used to work |
| 21:01.51 | corecode | and suddenly it doesn't anymore |
| 21:01.56 | corecode | on different networks |
| 21:02.03 | ruskie | when I was figuring out why stuff worked on one sime but not on the other |
| 21:02.26 | ruskie | turned out they had something setup wrong on the one that was working(i.e. inbound connections worked) |
| 21:03.00 | corecode | gmail<>gmail seems to work |
| 21:03.30 | DocScrutinizer | could you by any chance try SIP |
| 21:03.44 | ruskie | last I checked jingle worked with sip |
| 21:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | nfc what jingle is and how that's related |
| 21:04.09 | corecode | sip works |
| 21:04.12 | ruskie | jingle is just used to setup the session |
| 21:04.25 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, jingle is the stuff that is used to do voice chat on xmpp |
| 21:04.27 | corecode | jingle is the xmpp protocol i think |
| 21:04.35 | ruskie | xmpp protocol is the xmpp protocol |
| 21:04.48 | DocScrutinizer | orly? |
| 21:04.58 | ruskie | it setups an out-of-band channel to chat |
| 21:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | for me SIP is SIP |
| 21:05.20 | ruskie | https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Jingle_(protocol) |
| 21:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | or |
| 21:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | ~rfc SIP |
| 21:05.30 | corecode | yes, SIP != jingle == xmpp voice |
| 21:05.34 | corecode | sip works without problems |
| 21:05.51 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: ping |
| 21:05.51 | infobot | ~pong |
| 21:06.01 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 21:06.10 | ruskie | corecode, voice or video or a lot of other things infact ;) |
| 21:06.19 | corecode | yes |
| 21:06.34 | DocScrutinizer | ~literal rfc |
| 21:06.34 | ruskie | RemoteVNC - a remote desktop application, based on libjingle, which uses Jingle for screen sharing. <-- example |
| 21:06.50 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo rfc |
| 21:06.50 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: there's no such factoid as rfc |
| 21:06.59 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 21:07.17 | ruskie | but I thought the voice channels jingle setup were the same as sip sets up |
| 21:07.32 | ruskie | it's just what sets it up that's different |
| 21:08.01 | corecode | i don't think there is STUN for jingle, works somehow differently |
| 21:08.06 | ruskie | ICE |
| 21:08.24 | ruskie | still uses RTP though |
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| 21:08.57 | DocScrutinizer | SIP *is* about setup, the transport is usually RTP |
| 21:09.00 | corecode | i wonder how i could debug this |
| 21:09.05 | corecode | or rather, fix |
| 21:09.16 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, jingle is about setup as well |
| 21:09.29 | DocScrutinizer | so jingle != SIP |
| 21:09.40 | corecode | same job, different protocol |
| 21:09.41 | DocScrutinizer | or jingle == SIP |
| 21:09.54 | corecode | anyways |
| 21:09.59 | DocScrutinizer | but never jingle *uses* sip |
| 21:10.05 | ruskie | yeah |
| 21:10.07 | corecode | thanks, sad that you don't know |
| 21:11.48 | SpeedEvil | ~aegis |
| 21:11.48 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or ... |
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| 21:18.56 | DocScrutinizer | dang |
| 21:18.59 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 21:18.59 | infobot | i heard aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 21:20.01 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, aegis is <reply>aegis: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ |
| 21:20.01 | infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay |
| 21:20.02 | DocScrutinizer | ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 21:20.22 | DocScrutinizer | damn |
| 21:21.46 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 21:21.46 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
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| 21:22.58 | wmarone | I believe that should read "third party software written by vendors that hate and distrust their customers, preemptively believing them to be criminials" |
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| 21:27.12 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: http://gmr.osmocom.org/trac/ |
| 21:27.40 | SpeedEvil | Oooh! |
| 21:27.41 | SpeedEvil | neat |
| 21:28.33 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, now we're starting the next poker game, this time with really huge players |
| 21:29.32 | DocScrutinizer | plus I gather we won't get a Siemens 2W micro-BTS in orbit, used for a few hundered bucks, so we need to use their infra |
| 21:30.12 | DocScrutinizer | I'm just happy it's not iridium ;-P |
| 21:30.53 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise the 3 letter agencies were even more concerned about what we're doing |
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| 21:34.01 | SpeedEvil | Well - you get the handsets moderately cheap |
| 21:34.25 | DocScrutinizer | sure, but you hardly can emulate a "BTS" |
| 21:34.47 | DocScrutinizer | well, actually you can |
| 21:34.54 | DocScrutinizer | as it's almost GSM |
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| 21:35.25 | DocScrutinizer | but then again, the position of the one real "BTS" is rather exclusive and unique |
| 21:36.03 | DocScrutinizer | and the real fun is starting on messing with that one |
| 21:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | thuraya also has really competitive minute plans |
| 21:38.06 | DocScrutinizer | if it wasn't for the completely missing coverage indoors, it'd actually be an alternative to plain old GSM |
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| 21:38.51 | HyperSnyper | Hi DocScrutinizer, my N900 should be arriving next week hopefully :D |
| 21:39.11 | DocScrutinizer | nice :-) |
| 21:39.22 | DocScrutinizer | welcome to the club :-) |
| 21:39.27 | HyperSnyper | heh |
| 21:40.16 | DocScrutinizer | lemme give you an URL so you can't say nobody toldya |
| 21:40.19 | DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix |
| 21:40.20 | infobot | methinks usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) |
| 21:40.47 | DocScrutinizer | emphasis on "before it breaks" here |
| 21:40.53 | HyperSnyper | hmmm |
| 21:41.25 | jacekowski | HyperSnyper: where did you get it? |
| 21:41.34 | HyperSnyper | ebay.co.uk |
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| 21:43.28 | HyperSnyper | is the usb really that sketchy ? |
| 21:43.46 | HyperSnyper | not done soldering since leaving college |
| 21:43.53 | HyperSnyper | n that was a fair while ago |
| 21:43.55 | HyperSnyper | heh |
| 21:45.16 | DocScrutinizer | well, I think jacekowski and SpeedEvil both had issues with USB coming off, and they are both no hulks regarding handling hw |
| 21:45.39 | jacekowski | i'm sticking with my N8 |
| 21:45.49 | jacekowski | it lasts 3 days on single charge |
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| 21:45.57 | DocScrutinizer | otoh I got 2 devices here, working since 2 years and >1 year, with daily plug rounds |
| 21:46.05 | bindi | my phone screen just went inresponsive |
| 21:46.12 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I dropped mine at the absolute worst angle 1.5m |
| 21:46.15 | bindi | and then i locked it, and unlocking won't bring it back on |
| 21:46.15 | SpeedEvil | So... |
| 21:46.23 | SpeedEvil | With the USB lead in |
| 21:46.28 | jacekowski | and it seems to work faster than N900 |
| 21:46.42 | bindi | the phone is still running though |
| 21:46.45 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: not faster, just semplir |
| 21:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | simpler* |
| 21:46.57 | jacekowski | tbh. there is nothing bad i can say about this phone |
| 21:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | bindi: what means irresponsive? |
| 21:47.36 | bindi | DocScrutinizer: i was just messing with terminal, and then touch screen didnt work anymore |
| 21:47.46 | bindi | so i locked it, and unlocked.. wouldnt come back on |
| 21:47.47 | HyperSnyper | looked at the N8 abit jacekowski but just not really what i wanted |
| 21:47.48 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 21:48.02 | bindi | i just got an email, and the led is flashing about that |
| 21:48.05 | DocScrutinizer | bindi: you had a browser window open? |
| 21:48.07 | bindi | and i'm now ssh'd in |
| 21:48.10 | bindi | hmm no |
| 21:48.17 | bindi | nothing but terminal |
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| 21:48.36 | bindi | holding the power button does nothing either |
| 21:48.37 | DocScrutinizer | strange, usually this is a result of device in swaphell |
| 21:48.54 | bindi | uhh |
| 21:48.58 | DocScrutinizer | see what dmesg says |
| 21:49.06 | bindi | http://pastebin.com/7bPSTpMU |
| 21:49.11 | bindi | nothing out of the ordinary there |
| 21:50.01 | DocScrutinizer | hmm yeah |
| 21:50.14 | bindi | http://pastebin.com/aT9vF7iV |
| 21:50.34 | bindi | oh |
| 21:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest you make sure the device will come back up and even connect to wifi and start sshd without any user interaction, then reboot |
| 21:50.43 | bindi | now the screen came on |
| 21:50.58 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i wouldn't say simpler |
| 21:51.04 | bindi | any reason why it just started working? |
| 21:51.14 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: apps take less time to start |
| 21:51.18 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: things like that |
| 21:51.22 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and there is no swap problem |
| 21:51.43 | DocScrutinizer | bindi: trackerd finished indexing? |
| 21:51.52 | bindi | how do I know? :p |
| 21:51.56 | bindi | i disabled it on battery |
| 21:51.58 | DocScrutinizer | top |
| 21:52.23 | bindi | uh huh what should i be looking for |
| 21:52.36 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: (swap) obviously :-P |
| 21:53.11 | DocScrutinizer | bindi: well, not that it works again, it's hard to do "post mortem" forensics |
| 21:53.19 | DocScrutinizer | s/not/now/ |
| 21:53.20 | bindi | should've checked top earlier |
| 21:53.25 | bindi | wat |
| 21:53.27 | bindi | oh |
| 21:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | or simply "you should've checked top earlier" ;-) |
| 21:54.12 | bindi | :( |
| 21:55.13 | DocScrutinizer | maybe you did sth on shell that caused some heavy cpu or IO load? |
| 21:55.28 | bindi | nope |
| 21:55.38 | bindi | opened terminal, ls *.py, wrote ./latitude and was about to press tab and it didnt work |
| 21:56.11 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 21:56.15 | DocScrutinizer | no idea |
| 21:57.01 | bindi | I just connected it to wlan so could be mail checker |
| 21:57.14 | DocScrutinizer | maybe some ping floding or other "DoS attack" via connection to internet? |
| 21:58.01 | bindi | we'll probably never know :[ |
| 21:58.06 | HyperSnyper | is there any decent GPS Mapping software for N900 at the moment DocScrutinizer |
| 21:58.18 | SpeedEvil | HyperSnyper: What do you mean by gps mapping? |
| 21:58.19 | DocScrutinizer | or mail checker trying to find the 5 new mails on a pop3 account with 5GB of read mails |
| 21:58.19 | HyperSnyper | all reviews i read seem to have very different opinions |
| 21:58.22 | jacekowski | sygic is half decent |
| 21:58.31 | SpeedEvil | osm2go |
| 21:58.42 | HyperSnyper | gps navigatiion |
| 21:58.49 | jacekowski | sygic is half decent |
| 21:59.25 | HyperSnyper | SpeedEvil how much b/w does it use ? |
| 21:59.33 | SpeedEvil | HyperSnyper: Oh - I misread |
| 21:59.43 | SpeedEvil | It's not a routefinder |
| 21:59.49 | SpeedEvil | It's a map editor |
| 21:59.52 | HyperSnyper | oh |
| 22:00.17 | DocScrutinizer | check mappero and marble |
| 22:02.28 | Atarii | I love the spam on http://talk.maemo.org; lets me know what sports are on |
| 22:03.37 | psycho_oreos | little did I know my very own thread is getting all fired up :) |
| 22:05.52 | *** join/#maemo Spydemon (~Kevin@ANancy-158-1-77-95.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 22:07.29 | Shapeshifter | The amount of spam on tmo sure is amazing. |
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| 22:31.37 | psycho_oreos | from football to boxing |
| 22:33.08 | psycho_oreos | I think the spammers are getting smarter now, they realise that the mods at this time is asleep (mostly because they are all US based) so they decided to spam at this time to make the most of their point |
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| 23:45.31 | tzorvas | n900 is "down" after a failed upgrade with apt-get :$ and i need a way to backup its contents before reflashing it .. i can get it into Nokia Firmware Upgrade Mode but i dont know how to mount its internal storage :/ (cant open the phone) |
| 23:45.35 | tzorvas | any idea? |
| 23:47.18 | psycho_oreos | you don't have backup menu? |
| 23:47.23 | psycho_oreos | err backupmenu |
| 23:48.27 | DocScrutinizer | tzorvas: no way, except rescue-os on a uSD |
| 23:49.19 | tzorvas | i want back my contaaaaaaacts :'( i should find a way :$ |
| 23:49.38 | psycho_oreos | you won't lose your contacts if you flash the fiasco/combined firmware however |
| 23:51.26 | tzorvas | psycho_oreos: hm.. http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_only_the_kernel_from_a_FIASCO_image_.28expert_topic.21.29 ? |
| 23:52.17 | psycho_oreos | tzorvas, no not flashing just the kernel, flashing the whole rootfs |
| 23:53.36 | tzorvas | if i flash the whole rootfs won't i loose my contacts that are stored inside internal storage (eMMC) ? |
| 23:54.15 | psycho_oreos | your contacts are stored in eMMC which lives on a separate memory chip and is not part of rootfs |
| 23:54.31 | psycho_oreos | it gets mounted but it does not physically reside on the same memory chip |
| 23:58.08 | tzorvas | psycho_oreos: can you please point me to the right instructions set? |
