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| 01:51.45 | DocScrutinizer | BOOH! |
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| 06:15.19 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/16/chumby_nettv_hack/ <-- hmm |
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| 06:55.26 | eichi | hello. what IDE and SDK for pyside ? |
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| 07:06.36 | harbaum | What is wrong with the autobuilder? It's building gcc instead of the cod ei uploaded https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/cacheme_0.8.8-1/ |
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| 10:46.16 | RST38h | k |
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| 12:25.51 | tomreyn | hi, i'm trying to get some help updating maemo on my newly arrived (but previously used) n900 to the latest version. is this a good place to ask for help? |
| 12:26.21 | psycho_oreos | it is probably the only place to ask for unofficial live support ;) |
| 12:26.47 | tomreyn | :) |
| 12:27.07 | psycho_oreos | so which part do you need help with? |
| 12:27.46 | tomreyn | so, i see the phone is currently on v 20.2010.36-2, what's the newest stable release? (the one you'd want to keep everything important working) |
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| 12:29.38 | psycho_oreos | 20.2010.36-2 is the latest official release from nokia themselves. There's no newer firmwares offically from them. Though if you want to be a little more updated (and going through unofficial channels), there's CSSU. Its not always stable (but there are times it is) and it has bugfixes that nokia probably were supposed to provide but never did |
| 12:31.02 | tomreyn | is there a way to prevent installing these non-stable builds of CSSU? |
| 12:31.08 | psycho_oreos | no |
| 12:31.23 | tomreyn | i.e. only picking those which are stable? |
| 12:31.50 | tomreyn | so there is not something like a rating system for these builds? |
| 12:31.50 | psycho_oreos | what may work in one case may not work in other, so its all really just a matter of contributing in finding bugs and getting the bugs squished |
| 12:32.21 | psycho_oreos | not really, because people are entitled to have their opinions which are usually lopsided views :) |
| 12:32.59 | psycho_oreos | and the updates comes in version updates.. each version they release fixes numerous things.. so you can't upgrade certain bits and pieces and forget others that easily |
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| 12:33.56 | tomreyn | i'm happy to do contribute to finding and reporting bugs. i cannot live with a device which has basic functionality (telephony, sms, wireless lan) broken for more than a few hours at most, though |
| 12:34.30 | psycho_oreos | this is why having current backups and/or spare N900 handy :) |
| 12:34.48 | tomreyn | hah, i could hardly afford this one |
| 12:34.50 | psycho_oreos | ugh.. s/handy/useful for such situations/ |
| 12:35.13 | psycho_oreos | well current backups would be the choice there then :) use something like robbiethe1st's backupmenu |
| 12:35.15 | tomreyn | i definately will want to have backups though |
| 12:35.26 | psycho_oreos | and current ones ontop :) |
| 12:36.04 | psycho_oreos | you don't want old backups that you restore and you realise those old backups don't have the newer data you have inputted prior to creating that backup |
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| 12:37.30 | robbiethe1st | Yup; keep nice sets of backups, backup before you do something risky, and then rollback if it doesn't work |
| 12:38.09 | tomreyn | so what do i backup, emmc, fiasco or both? |
| 12:38.35 | psycho_oreos | rootfs + /home|/opt.. but backupmenu does that :) |
| 12:39.08 | tomreyn | okay, and to install backupmenu i do... what exactly? add an apt source? |
| 12:39.24 | tomreyn | i've got a debian / sysadmin background ;) |
| 12:39.28 | psycho_oreos | yes.. enabling extras-devel iirc |
| 12:39.41 | robbiethe1st | Yup, it's in extras-devel. |
| 12:40.07 | psycho_oreos | you might want to backup your current setup now with osso-backup in case backupmenu doesn't work (it shouldn't but its always good to have a backup made) |
| 12:40.30 | psycho_oreos | and once you have installed backupmenu successfully, backup properly using backupmenu |
| 12:40.45 | tomreyn | well i have a blank phone, isn't it as easy as restoring the entire software on it? |
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| 12:41.03 | tomreyn | ...when something goes wrong |
| 12:41.47 | psycho_oreos | technically no, you can go flash fiasco alone but if you flashed eMMC, you will erase your contacts, SMS history, etc |
| 12:42.06 | tomreyn | there are none |
| 12:42.27 | tomreyn | it's a blank installation, like a new phone |
| 12:42.34 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
| 12:42.44 | psycho_oreos | heh well in that case I guess you don't have much to lose |
| 12:43.07 | kevin_b | hello guys |
| 12:43.25 | kevin_b | does anyone have psx4m working with opengl? |
| 12:43.33 | kevin_b | does anyone *has* |
| 12:43.38 | kevin_b | have |
| 12:43.39 | kevin_b | :) |
| 12:44.04 | psycho_oreos | the backups won't be big with backupmenu for your case anyway, unlike those of us who use N900 more will generally have bigger backup files.. and tinkerers like me has huge ones :).. though if you used backupmenu you would save yourself some bandwidth with downloading of data anyway and waiting around |
| 12:44.32 | tomreyn | psycho_oreos: so my first step of working with this phone should be to install backupmenu, which is done by somehow adding 'extras-devel' to /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 12:44.47 | tomreyn | i guess i need to setup a wireless connection first |
| 12:45.06 | psycho_oreos | tomreyn, the best way (well the maemo way) is to really go through using hildon application manager (HAM) |
| 12:45.26 | tomreyn | which can be accessed thorugh gui, i assume? |
| 12:45.27 | psycho_oreos | but if you decide to use CLI method, that's also ok as well |
| 12:45.29 | psycho_oreos | yes |
| 12:45.44 | psycho_oreos | I think its called `App Manager' |
| 12:46.31 | psycho_oreos | though really adding extras-devel to `App Manager' will probably hog the device like hell for the next maybe 5-10 minutes after having downloaded the repository file listing |
| 12:46.45 | tomreyn | i have a localized (german) variant, there is 'program manager' |
| 12:47.31 | psycho_oreos | ahh I guess that would be it :) I am using global firmware with English UK as language base and English AU as locality |
| 12:48.35 | tomreyn | yes looks like it's the right application. i'm setting up wireless now. |
| 12:48.43 | psycho_oreos | in fact `program manager' would be a more appropriate word than `app manager' :) |
| 12:52.32 | tomreyn | so i have four 'catalogs' (which seem to be APT sources): nokia applications, nokia system software updates, OVI, maemo.org. do i edit one of these or add a new one? |
| 12:52.52 | tomreyn | psycho_oreos: is there a how-to on this somewhere so i don't waste your precious time? |
| 12:53.11 | tomreyn | i was looking for a getting started guide but i guess i couldn't find anything similar. |
| 12:53.42 | psycho_oreos | tomreyn, yes you have to add a new one |
| 12:53.55 | psycho_oreos | err.. lemme go find that wiki link |
| 12:54.47 | psycho_oreos | tomreyn, http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#How_to_activate_Extras-devel |
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| 12:56.00 | psycho_oreos | also, you should have a read of the information printed on top of that wiki page in regards to extras-devel. Not that I guess would affect you that greatly but I still suggest that you read it and take note should issues arise. |
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| 12:56.46 | tomreyn | yes, i just read that i should backup before adding this repository to be able to add a backup software. |
| 12:56.48 | tomreyn | ;-) |
| 12:57.14 | tomreyn | but yes, you said i can use the one already there for a first step. |
| 12:57.22 | psycho_oreos | well its not just that, there's stuff like it may drain power excessively, cause bootloops, etc, etc, etc |
| 12:58.05 | psycho_oreos | err no, I don't think you can convert that extras from the list of four repositories to be extras-devel.. I thought that wasn't allowed |
| 12:58.14 | tomreyn | can i use apt preferences to prevent installing updated but problematic software versions from there? |
| 12:59.15 | psycho_oreos | uhh I think you can.. there were devs talking about using PIN for instance or `pinning' as they refer the subject as |
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| 12:59.36 | tomreyn | right, apt pinning |
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| 13:00.47 | psycho_oreos | for me I use the old fashioned method of holding via dpkg |
| 13:01.17 | psycho_oreos | also aptitude (not available with the device by default) can also hold packages, etc.. too bad the ncurses UI doesn't work |
| 13:04.29 | tomreyn | curses dosn't work in general? |
| 13:04.36 | tomreyn | *ncurses |
| 13:05.20 | tomreyn | i was also told about 'power kernel' would be a good idea to install. but i guess that's a step after i did the backup. |
| 13:05.34 | psycho_oreos | not sure but I doubt it.. not that I'm familiar with the variations of CLI based programs with menu driven interfaces. mc for instance does work, so does htop |
| 13:05.59 | tomreyn | i see |
| 13:07.14 | psycho_oreos | well making the backup with backupmenu won't affect installation of power-kernel as the actual kernel sits in an area where its not accessible for backupmenu. Though with osso-backup, it'll prompt you to install it (if you have the correct repositories enabled prior to backup and already have power-kernel installed prior to backup). |
| 13:07.48 | psycho_oreos | power kernel adds lots more features but its not completely stable and has its own issues |
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| 13:22.41 | tomreyn | thanks for your help psycho_oreos |
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| 13:22.50 | tomreyn | i forgot to say that :) |
| 13:23.28 | psycho_oreos | tomreyn, heh nw.. too bad its not like tmo threads where I get `thank' tags tallied up ;) |
| 13:23.42 | psycho_oreos | denotes that as not a serious concern when winking :p |
| 13:24.51 | tomreyn | :) |
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| 13:33.13 | tomreyn | looks like i'm locked into a vicious circle here: i want to create the apt preferences file (to apt pin extras-devel), so, as I read, I need to install 'getroot' from the 'extras' repository (which is already installed and active). But I can't seem to find a package named 'getroot'. nad if i could, i would not be able to install it (on the terminal) since that would require root permissions. |
| 13:33.47 | psycho_oreos | you meant rootsh or gainroot |
| 13:34.10 | tomreyn | oops s/getroot/gainroot/, this might be why |
| 13:34.38 | psycho_oreos | rootsh I believe is in extras repository, gainroot may also be available from within the same repository (extras) but you can alleviate all that by temporarily (or permanently if you wish to do so) enable R&D mode |
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| 13:35.48 | tomreyn | if only i knew how ;) |
| 13:36.05 | tomreyn | i found the rootsh package and will install that now |
| 13:36.45 | psycho_oreos | http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode <-- R&D mode |
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| 14:00.54 | scoobertron | is anyone using zhaan? I am finding is is crashing randomly and wondered if I was the only one |
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| 14:10.16 | godmachine-x6 | what happened to lcuk???? |
| 14:10.44 | psycho_oreos | he passed away |
| 14:11.05 | mece | godmachine-x6, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1088957 |
| 14:12.19 | godmachine-x6 | psycho_oreos:: hate to jump in here and just ask questions. but i was trying to figure out what happened to him.. he didn't seem like anything was wrong that i was aware of! |
| 14:14.00 | psycho_oreos | godmachine-x6, well it seems like mece is right on the ball there |
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| 14:15.06 | godmachine-x6 | ok sorry for asking then |
| 14:15.17 | godmachine-x6 | sorry for everyones loss |
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| 16:07.40 | Guest3596 | hi guys is there a way to configure N900 only to receive calls coming from numbers saved on the phonebook ? |
| 16:09.26 | hiemanshu | Guest3596: I think pycallblocker should work |
| 16:09.56 | Guest3596 | hiemanshu thanks for the tip |
| 16:10.07 | Guest3596 | i'll check it out |
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| 16:56.28 | RokSteady | psycho_oreos, DocScrutinizer51 (and perhaps someone else who helped me the other day): thank you for the hints... I've now fixed my headset: http://shishworks.blogspot.com/2011/09/nokia-n900-headset-white-m-lead-broken.html |
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| 17:09.21 | Guest87354 | hiemanshu that app does not support the phonebook :( |
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| 17:17.05 | SpeedEvil | RokSteady: :) |
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| 17:41.16 | gmathisz | is the N810 still receiving support from the community? |
| 17:49.47 | luke-jr | gmathisz: no |
| 17:50.00 | luke-jr | gmathisz: Nokia basically prevented community from maintaining N8x0 |
| 17:50.18 | luke-jr | it's like 75% closed source |
| 17:50.46 | neal | I thought the big problem was the power management |
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| 17:50.56 | neal | poky worked otherwise rather well |
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| 18:22.45 | gmathisz | thank you, luke-jr |
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| 18:56.30 | unixSnob | so I switched to an android phone, because maemo has only 1-sim devices.. and android os seems to be a piece of shit |
| 18:56.54 | unixSnob | has maemo been ported to any dual sim devices? |
| 18:58.37 | SpeedEvil | No. |
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| 18:58.49 | SpeedEvil | Maemo has inherent large chunks of non-free binary. |
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| 18:58.57 | SpeedEvil | So you can't port it. (legally) |
| 18:59.52 | unixSnob | SpeedEvil: there was an effort to replace all those black boxes. iirc, the only driver not replaced was bluetooth (and the drivers probably need to be replaced anyway if the hardware differs) |
| 19:00.08 | SpeedEvil | It's not that simple. |
| 19:00.19 | SpeedEvil | Yes, you can replace the whole lot. |
| 19:00.22 | SpeedEvil | That's 'simple' |
| 19:00.34 | SpeedEvil | You can't replace - say - BME |
| 19:00.49 | SpeedEvil | As it talks to MCE, and a whole heap of other stuff over closed interfaces |
| 19:00.58 | SpeedEvil | So what you end up isn't really maemo. |
| 19:01.00 | ruskie | I though people were trying to reverse it |
| 19:01.13 | SpeedEvil | The effort sort-of-petered-out. |
| 19:01.17 | ruskie | :( |
| 19:01.39 | SpeedEvil | Maemo is basically ideally designed to frustrate replacement of the system components. |
| 19:01.52 | ruskie | well if the base would remain the same(with closed swaped out for something semi-compatbile open) and the UX is left I'd still consider it maemo |
| 19:02.11 | SpeedEvil | There are multiple closed apps and daemons, all of which talk to each other over closed interfaces. |
| 19:02.12 | unixSnob | Mamona.. that's what it was called |
| 19:02.33 | SpeedEvil | So you can't rip out one, and have the others work |
| 19:02.38 | ruskie | yeah |
| 19:02.41 | ruskie | I can understand that |
| 19:02.47 | ruskie | you'de basically have to replace all of those |
| 19:02.51 | SpeedEvil | You either have to reimplement the closed undocumented communication, or replace them all. |
| 19:03.02 | SpeedEvil | And yes, it could run most random maemo apps. |
| 19:03.11 | SpeedEvil | But you'd need a new dialer, ... |
| 19:03.51 | DocScrutinizer | ruskie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1006716#post1006716 |
| 19:07.21 | ruskie | DocScrutinizer, so in other words... bash head against wall until your brain truns to mush |
| 19:08.48 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not going to do that - doesn't sound like much fun ;-) |
| 19:08.54 | ruskie | hehe |
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| 19:22.35 | Pali | ruskie: all closed packages in maemo fremantle is in this list: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
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| 19:33.35 | ruskie | http://imgur.com/gallery/L8gdO |
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| 20:27.58 | jacekowski | wow |
| 20:28.02 | jacekowski | they fixed my n900 |
| 20:28.42 | jacekowski | at least that's what it says on carphonewarehouse website |
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| 20:30.34 | javispedro | usb? |
| 20:30.44 | jacekowski | yes |
| 20:30.49 | jacekowski | i'm not sure what i'm going to get back |
| 20:31.01 | jacekowski | Repair type: Manufacturers Warranty Repair completed on: 16/09/2011 |
| 20:32.15 | javispedro | funn |
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| 20:48.56 | RST38h | moo. |
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| 20:50.18 | ErwinJunge | jacekowski: In all likelyhood, an N8 ;) |
| 20:50.37 | jacekowski | ErwinJunge: i've told them to make a note that i will not accept N8 |
| 20:50.42 | jacekowski | ErwinJunge: or any other phone |
| 20:52.44 | ErwinJunge | Hm... I'd be pleasantly surprised if someone actually read that note, but good luck. A tip if it does turn out to be an "upgrade": complain loudly on their facebook page. It has worked for at least 1 person here in the Netherlands. |
| 20:53.08 | ErwinJunge | They sent him an N8 no less than 4 times before finally caving and sending him an N900. |
| 21:05.05 | Sc0rpius | N8 is great hardware |
| 21:05.10 | Sc0rpius | I hope somebody hack it to put Meego on it |
| 21:05.13 | Sc0rpius | or something else |
| 21:09.28 | Atarii | I'm getting a tattoo of 'N900 Fo Life' |
| 21:11.17 | ShadowJK | N8 doesn't meet MeeGo's minimum CPU requirements :-) |
| 21:11.17 | jacekowski | and it has no fmtx |
| 21:20.17 | Ans5i | n9 is sweet |
| 21:20.54 | ShadowJK | I guess it'd be cool, but I want more of a smartphone and less of a featurephone thing :) |
| 21:21.18 | Ans5i | hackhackphone :) |
| 21:21.39 | Ans5i | but n9 is quite hackable |
| 21:22.00 | Ans5i | but is it smart.. hm |
| 21:22.21 | Ans5i | it has smart features |
| 21:22.42 | NIN101 | whispers: aegis |
| 21:22.44 | Ans5i | i probably lack perspective :) |
| 21:23.23 | Ans5i | smart is safe |
| 21:24.36 | *** join/#maemo malin_ (~malin@97.8.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:24.39 | Ans5i | well... safe IS smart |
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| 21:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: no way to get meego on N8 aiui |
| 21:27.34 | DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: define "safe" (I admit I've stolen this stanza from a guy called djszapi ;-D) |
| 21:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: if you're referring to aegis regarding this "safe" thing, let me tell you a secret: aegis isn't about safety, at least not about what *you* would consider safety |
| 21:30.06 | Ans5i | DocScrutinizer... let's see. if i accidentally get robbed, i don't really want my data to end up to wrong place. |
| 21:30.39 | DocScrutinizer | so you think aegis is helping on that? hahahaha *cough* sorry |
| 21:30.47 | Ans5i | afaik there is secure filesystem |
| 21:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | and how's that helping on your device getting stolen and somebody reading out this secure filesystem same way you do? |
| 21:31.56 | Ans5i | password, i would guess :) |
| 21:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | btw cryptofs is nothing we need aegis for, it's been around for eons |
| 21:33.03 | DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: you're evidently a victim of MSSF PR BS |
| 21:33.16 | Ans5i | i think it was called aegisfs |
| 21:33.17 | ShadowJK | Smart once upon a time meant to me being able to get stuff done :) |
| 21:33.24 | DocScrutinizer | or more generally TC PR |
| 21:33.48 | DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: so what? |
| 21:34.02 | DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: if I call myself jesus, will you pray to me? |
| 21:34.17 | MohammadAG | <jacekowski> and it has no fmtx |
| 21:34.19 | MohammadAG | N8? it does |
| 21:34.26 | Ans5i | well, i haven't use cryptofs |
| 21:34.39 | MohammadAG | they replaced "FM Transmitter" with "Play via Radio" |
| 21:34.45 | MohammadAG | which I found very confusing |
| 21:34.57 | DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: see: |
| 21:34.59 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 21:34.59 | infobot | aegis is, like, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 21:35.28 | DocScrutinizer | "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment." |
| 21:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | not about your safety, about the safety of third party IP |
| 21:35.57 | ShadowJK | and like, now it seems like there'd be about same amount of pain or more to hack N9 as to hack random android handset into usability, with aegis and the dumbing down of the interfaces :) Oh and lack of keyboard... seems like a general trend :( Oh well, Samsung Note might be tolerable, with that extra screen real estate they might be able to make a decently sized vkb, and maybe also fit some context about what you're typing onscreen at the same itme.. |
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| 21:36.39 | Ans5i | DocScrutinizer, not bad thing considering all the spy/malware. |
| 21:36.50 | DocScrutinizer | hahaha |
| 21:37.44 | DocScrutinizer | yeah sure, you get the spy/malware from ovistore, and it will use aegis to make sure no community written virus checker interferes with whatever it likes to do |
| 21:37.51 | ShadowJK | Most of the malware I see on people's computers these days come from one of the top-20 technology companies :) |
| 21:38.21 | ShadowJK | Sony comes to mind |
| 21:38.37 | Ans5i | let me paste too. "AegisFS is a FUSE-based cryptographic file system which implements virtual directories implemented as protected stores. This enables transparent integrity and confidentiality protection of ordinary files without the needing to use proprietary API" |
| 21:39.52 | ShadowJK | That's a cool idea, but do they really need to lock down everything else just to have that? If so, it's too big of a cost I think |
| 21:41.08 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@38.121.151.80) |
| 21:41.09 | ShadowJK | Yeah and if I want to load a kernel module, so I can connect to a vpn, so I can access my email, there's theoretically a chance that the kernel module is tainted and starts accessing the internals of the crypto subsystem and compromises it, I guess =/ |
| 21:41.32 | Ans5i | so far creator has created tokens automatically for those very simple apps that i've made. |
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| 21:41.43 | DocScrutinizer | Ans5i: nice. And now google for cryptofs please |
| 21:41.51 | tomreyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx8qdVs7Ug http://nin101.uni.cx/N900/crypto/encrypted_home/ |
| 21:42.57 | tomreyn | https://gitorious.org/maemo5-encrypted-home/maemo5-encrypted-home |
| 21:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | tomreyn: thanks :-) |
| 21:43.38 | tomreyn | ust passing on what NIN101 told me earlier today ;) |
| 21:43.46 | tomreyn | *i'm just |
| 21:45.02 | MohammadAG | is that an emergency call button? |
| 21:45.12 | MohammadAG | oh, skip, nevermind |
| 21:45.21 | DocScrutinizer | isn't it incredible how you can sell arbitrary BS to users, simply by adding a few old well known features and labeling them same way as the rest of your crap? |
| 21:46.15 | ShadowJK | Now, a really cool feature would be message encryption that didn't mysteriously fail as soon as some random dudes wants it to fail |
| 21:46.18 | ShadowJK | looks at RIM |
| 21:47.32 | MohammadAG | |
| 21:47.32 | MohammadAG | echo "/what/me/worry" > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern |
| 21:47.34 | MohammadAG | riight... |
| 21:48.02 | DocScrutinizer | ""WinP7-charger: A software that takes care about your phone's battery and manages to get the longest possible operation time from it" - HEY COOL SHIT! let's go for WinP7, it has a special software designed to give *AWESOME* standby time. Probably even helps when your device gets stolen ;-P |
| 21:48.19 | ShadowJK | So if we could get a tun/tap module loaded we could run arbitrary traffic and instant messengers over the TOR network, our data encrypted over the internet until it emerges from some random exitnode, but oh wait aegis says NO :P |
| 21:48.25 | Ans5i | cryptofs seems to be gpl and aegis lgpl |
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| 21:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | HOORAY!!!! |
| 21:48.57 | MohammadAG | starts backporting aegis to the N900 |
| 21:49.18 | nid0 | DocScrutinizer, fact is it works when people dont know these features exist. Symbian and Apple both prove this perfectly |
| 21:49.18 | MohammadAG | users need protection from bash |
| 21:49.22 | DocScrutinizer | shoots MohammadAG |
| 21:49.54 | MohammadAG | backport finished, let's deploy it in the CSSU |
| 21:49.59 | nid0 | Symbian has had a boatload of features for nearly a decade that other smartphones are recently adding but that nokia never sold well, and Apple managed to palm off features that've existed forever by relabelling and advertising that theyre there |
| 21:50.33 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, my DevN900's bme wanted to shutdown at 45% battery remaining the other day. Shutdown bme, start my own battery management software. I recovered that last 40% extra runtime! Genuinely, not like those fake Symbian/android/WP7 apps. This is of course also not possible on N9 with aegis in place :P |
| 21:50.57 | MohammadAG | agreed |
| 21:50.57 | MohammadAG | USB OTG is not interesting to users |
| 21:50.58 | MohammadAG | if apple did it'd be named something fancy |
| 21:51.29 | ShadowJK | USB² or perhaps U² |
| 21:51.33 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 21:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | hey, on maemo we see same now: aegisfs ;-P |
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| 21:53.18 | DocScrutinizer | so aegis is a good thing - it's giving safety back to user - see, there's aegisfs - <quote of above> <bla bla> |
| 21:53.28 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, you can stop bme on the N9 |
| 21:53.48 | MohammadAG | you just can't start any sane power management software |
| 21:53.49 | ShadowJK | But then you lose battery state tracking and safe shutdown? :-) |
| 21:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 21:53.56 | ShadowJK | right |
| 21:54.13 | MohammadAG | just wondering |
| 21:54.22 | nid0 | on a brighter subject, I really like my touchpad <3 |
| 21:54.23 | MohammadAG | is the TPM chip inside the SoC or on the board somewhere? |
| 21:54.37 | MohammadAG | I'm interested in knowing what would happen if someone f's that chip |
| 21:55.02 | javispedro | you can test that on qemu |
| 21:55.05 | ShadowJK | it's a soc feature I believe |
| 21:56.22 | ShadowJK | You know I actually predicted that bme would freak out at about 40-50% and go from showing 40% remaining to showing 0% remaining, thanks to data gathered by SpeedEvil's awesome ohm "battery profiling" script :-) |
| 21:56.26 | javispedro | they basically use both the ARM stuff and a BB5. |
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| 21:56.59 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: bad battery? |
| 21:57.20 | ShadowJK | bme should like adjust it's new 0 to be at the old 40%, or yell at me to get a new battery (but oh wait, can't do that with N9 either) |
| 21:57.42 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, guesstimate, shutdown when you feel you've lost your battery :p |
| 21:58.00 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, it's less than a year old! :) |
| 21:58.04 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 21:58.26 | MohammadAG | I hate how you have to pry open the N9 |
| 21:58.35 | MohammadAG | and the battery is similar to those on cordless phones |
| 21:58.36 | javispedro | more like "destroy" |
| 21:58.39 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: inside SoC |
| 21:58.54 | MohammadAG | javispedro, nah, I'm guessing it's rubbery |
| 21:59.43 | ShadowJK | I saw photonicinduction on youtube trying to destroy a "body massager" with his hammer. I wonder if that's the same material the N9 is made out of |
| 22:00.10 | MohammadAG | isn't polycarbonate essential plastic-y? |
| 22:00.18 | nid0 | yeah |
| 22:00.26 | ShadowJK | It's plastic |
| 22:00.41 | MohammadAG | so why call it polycarbonate? |
| 22:00.50 | ShadowJK | Marketing! |
| 22:01.00 | javispedro | it has got electrolytes! |
| 22:01.09 | nid0 | because it sounds better than saying plastic, and its a better quality material than your average typical plastic |
| 22:01.10 | SpeedEvil | It does have carbon in |
| 22:01.20 | DocScrutinizer | polycarbonate is a rather special "plastic" |
| 22:01.37 | SpeedEvil | Also - poly = polymer - carbonate ad it's a polymer of carboante groups |
| 22:01.40 | SpeedEvil | carbonate |
| 22:01.47 | MohammadAG | I'd love a carbon fibre phone |
| 22:01.52 | SpeedEvil | Fun fact. |
| 22:02.20 | SpeedEvil | Polycarbonate is made from two gasses both of which are chemical warfare agents. |
| 22:02.28 | DocScrutinizer | it's used e.g for all sorts of vending machines, as it's basically unbreakable and not destroyable by fire. Just gets black and bubbly |
| 22:03.20 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, so the N9 won't be sold to arabs in israel? |
| 22:03.24 | nid0 | its also used for aircraft windscreens/cockpit bubbles, riot shields, and plenty of other applications due to being really hard to break |
| 22:03.47 | MohammadAG | I hope it takes dents better the N950 then |
| 22:03.59 | DocScrutinizer | also bullet proof glass is made of layers of silcicondioxide based true glass and layers of polycarbonate, afaik |
| 22:04.13 | ShadowJK | isn't N950 aluminium? |
| 22:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 22:04.22 | ShadowJK | oh |
| 22:04.42 | MohammadAG | more like plastic |
| 22:04.45 | javispedro | N950 is made of scratchium |
| 22:04.47 | MohammadAG | the bad kind |
| 22:04.53 | MohammadAG | the N900's body was better imo |
| 22:05.09 | javispedro | it attracts scratches |
| 22:05.19 | MohammadAG | it attracts the floor for me |
| 22:05.36 | MohammadAG | it likes to make new friends too |
| 22:05.47 | MohammadAG | it met concrete tiles and carpet |
| 22:05.49 | ShadowJK | N810 formfactor, get rid of the metal door, make slider mechanism as awesome as on N900 -> awesomeness |
| 22:06.43 | ShadowJK | Oh, the Mugen 2400 back door for N900, it's made out of a plastic that feels more rubbery than the N900 plastic. I quite liked it, because it felt like I had a secure grip of the phone |
| 22:06.58 | MohammadAG | the N950 is slippery |
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| 22:24.00 | DocScrutinizer | plus N950 basically has a terrible hwkbd: 42 key (N900: 38) but not really any better accessibility as key caps are flat on flat, while N900 (and N810) key caps are convex |
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| 22:26.30 | DocScrutinizer | nobody really likes flat top keycaps - they don't allow for "automatic" tactile feedback to center to the middle of the keys |
| 22:27.14 | ShadowJK | My E75 has flat keys too, but there's enough space between the keys that it kinda works |
| 22:27.29 | ShadowJK | and it's not glossy smooth so you don't slip off the keys |
| 22:27.45 | DocScrutinizer | if there wasn't that small trench between the keys it was virtually impossible to type blindly |
| 22:28.00 | ShadowJK | E75 has "trench" too |
| 22:28.14 | ShadowJK | though it took like 2-3 weeks to adjust to it |
| 22:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | my M800 eten kbd was like that - unbearable |
| 22:30.26 | ShadowJK | in some ways the E75 keyboard is better than N810, and in some ways better than N900 |
| 22:31.15 | ShadowJK | sometimes in emergencies all I've had left working has been E75, and discovered that typing in iptabels and route commmands with IP addresses in putty on it has been easier than on N900 :P |
| 22:32.34 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: the vkbd is actually easier |
| 22:33.45 | ShadowJK | I hate waiting for it to appear :P |
| 22:34.25 | ShadowJK | and then the time it takes to correct typos done with vkb kills the remaining time benefit :/ |
| 22:34.51 | ShadowJK | is somewhat better on the N800 stylus vkbd using thumbs |
| 22:35.10 | ShadowJK | maybe because on N800 the touch layer is so so much closer to the display layer? |
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| 22:36.28 | ShadowJK | like I'm aiming for the actual letter, and thumb hits the touch window further up away from the letter than I expected, and ends up in the wrong place? |
| 22:38.00 | ShadowJK | and the exact "offset" between touch and display varies depending on the angle you hold N900 in, which for me varies depending on whether I stand, sit, lay down, etc :/ |
| 22:40.27 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, the max parallax error I can detect on N900 screen is ~1mm |
| 22:40.52 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if that could cause noticeable problems with vkbd |
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| 22:43.53 | ShadowJK | It's not the parallax per se that messes me up |
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| 22:44.50 | ShadowJK | it's more that when I look at hte contents and don't see the surface, I'm fingers hit the screen much earlier than I planned and haven't reached their correct horizontal position yet? |
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| 22:47.04 | ShadowJK | in daylight I'm probably better on N900 vkb, in darker ambient I do much better on N800 vkb |
| 22:47.05 | DocScrutinizer | yeah that may well confuse your motorics |
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