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| 00:14.14 | javispedro | holy crap |
| 00:14.23 | javispedro | is what is on my twitter feed true? |
| 00:14.30 | javispedro | 99$ touchpad? |
| 00:14.47 | javispedro | what the hell. |
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| 00:20.35 | b1ackdeath | whats up guys |
| 00:21.45 | javispedro | clouds. |
| 00:22.51 | b1ackdeath | stars over here any one still using the n810 or everyone got a n900 |
| 00:26.41 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. Is this how nokia decide on features? |
| 00:26.47 | SpeedEvil | http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Might-as-well-JUMP.aspx last para |
| 00:27.02 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: ? |
| 00:27.48 | javispedro | ? |
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| 00:31.23 | javispedro | retail stores in canada are selling the hp touchpad at $99 seemingly |
| 00:31.36 | javispedro | I'd get even for the 1024x768 IPS panel value.. |
| 00:31.43 | GAN900 | I'll take three. |
| 00:31.58 | javispedro | someone keep one for me :) |
| 00:32.10 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: Wow |
| 00:32.13 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 00:32.28 | SpeedEvil | I'd take a couple at that too. |
| 00:32.55 | javispedro | I just hope someone sells it online, but when such "liquidations" happen they don't usually do that |
| 00:33.10 | javispedro | albeit I guess it'll soon enter eBay. |
| 00:37.58 | javispedro | my local HP site is already DDoSed |
| 00:38.13 | javispedro | as I sad on the MWC meegoconf, never understimate spaniard's love for freebies. |
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| 00:41.18 | javispedro | qole already has his IPS screen =) |
| 00:48.53 | javispedro | lcuk: there? |
| 01:01.23 | SpeedEvil | http://www.ebuyer.com/259850-palm-pre-2-smartphone-3g-wcdma-umts-gsm-1075eu-umts |
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| 01:08.52 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: that's 480x320, avoid. |
| 01:09.19 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - I was idly wondering about if there were awesome reductions on the site |
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| 01:09.44 | SpeedEvil | And sort-of-related to HP |
| 01:10.44 | javispedro | well |
| 01:10.58 | javispedro | I noticed the spanish store was selling the Pre3 for 350 euro |
| 01:11.10 | javispedro | that's slightly higher than N9's hardware level. |
| 01:11.42 | javispedro | (save for RAM) |
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| 01:17.12 | javispedro | I love how a bunch of random people is joining #webos and asking how easy is to install $RANDOM_OS on it. |
| 01:17.19 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 01:17.28 | SpeedEvil | I was about to pop over there for that reason. :) |
| 01:17.41 | SpeedEvil | I imagine the regulars are somewhat peeved? |
| 01:17.52 | javispedro | most of them having just spent $400+ for it.. |
| 01:21.22 | javispedro | either way, believe me, it's hackable. |
| 01:21.53 | javispedro | not sure you'll ever get full blown Meego into it (qualcomm+adreno :S) |
| 01:22.04 | SpeedEvil | If it was local, then I'd be buying it. |
| 01:22.16 | SpeedEvil | Even as just a browser tablet that couldn't be upgraded. |
| 01:22.31 | javispedro | this morning I was hinting the webos guys to see if someone tried the n64 emulator |
| 01:22.51 | javispedro | destiny might have reserved the fate of porting it to myself, seemingly. |
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| 03:03.05 | opdf2 | just bought one dont even want a tablet lol |
| 03:03.22 | opdf2 | $90 USD shipped wh not |
| 03:03.57 | SpeedEvil | wishes they'd ship outside the USA. |
| 03:03.59 | SpeedEvil | Where from? |
| 03:04.16 | opdf2 | hp |
| 03:04.22 | opdf2 | official site |
| 03:04.37 | opdf2 | even the palm pre 2 |
| 03:04.39 | opdf2 | $49 |
| 03:05.09 | opdf2 | didnt think they would liquidate this fast |
| 03:05.27 | flailingmonkey | i still want a pre 3 for my gf, she's using a pixi at the moment |
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| 03:06.25 | flailingmonkey | on hp site i still see touchpad 16GB going for $400... |
| 03:06.44 | opdf2 | follow instructions @ a fatwallet/ slickdeal site |
| 03:06.53 | opdf2 | i even called HP and they said $99 |
| 03:07.09 | opdf2 | they are open 24/7 to take orders |
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| 03:07.26 | opdf2 | but i ordered online |
| 03:07.47 | SpeedEvil | tries hp.co.uk. |
| 03:07.53 | javispedro | they only ship US though |
| 03:08.13 | opdf2 | all retail will soon follow most likely |
| 03:08.17 | opdf2 | so only time |
| 03:08.23 | SpeedEvil | 16G 349 pounds, 32 429 pounds. |
| 03:08.29 | SpeedEvil | UK hp store |
| 03:08.41 | SpeedEvil | So $500/$600 |
| 03:09.07 | flailingmonkey | i'm too dense to find these deal sites, but alright |
| 03:09.49 | opdf2 | just call if you're too lazy |
| 03:09.59 | opdf2 | wait is long though...30 min for me |
| 03:10.28 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: For something this large, shipping will be unpleasant. |
| 03:10.52 | flailingmonkey | here we go! http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/19/let-the-liquidation-begin-hps-16gb-touchpad-on-sale-for-99/ |
| 03:11.24 | flailingmonkey | $150 for 32GB HP TouchPad |
| 03:14.12 | opdf2 | palm pre3 might be cancelled |
| 03:14.19 | opdf2 | quote engadget |
| 03:14.24 | flailingmonkey | but apparently AT&T was launching pre3, and has now completely cancelled |
| 03:14.38 | flailingmonkey | quote webOSroundup: http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/08/pre-3-orders-for-att-in-the-u-s-cancelled/ |
| 03:14.46 | opdf2 | ooo liquidate that pre3 stock |
| 03:15.06 | flailingmonkey | did they have stock yet? |
| 03:15.10 | SpeedEvil | 299 pounds still on UK store (palm pre3) |
| 03:15.20 | flailingmonkey | but there must have been stock created |
| 03:15.23 | flailingmonkey | and for at&t bands |
| 03:15.25 | flailingmonkey | ... |
| 03:17.28 | opdf2 | they were already packaging |
| 03:19.28 | flailingmonkey | damn it |
| 03:19.35 | opdf2 | 16gb $99 oos |
| 03:21.04 | flailingmonkey | they've got to sell those pre3's some where. they're not damaged, and it would be more expensive to destroy them than sell them even at $50 |
| 03:21.27 | opdf2 | most likely will be liquidated at $99 |
| 03:21.38 | SpeedEvil | Especially given the maker is exiting the marketplace. |
| 03:21.54 | SpeedEvil | So it doesn't care about the effect of the firesale on the reputation. |
| 03:27.40 | flailingmonkey | yah |
| 03:28.08 | opdf2 | geez what a great price ips/snap dual |
| 03:28.54 | flailingmonkey | my girlfriend will be getting a new phone if they liquidate those pre3's. she never even uses apps, the only things that matter for her are e-mail, web browsing and maps |
| 03:29.21 | flailingmonkey | and honestly, it does make me think that there is a sort of app market bubble at the moment |
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| 03:46.36 | javispedro | lols at "bough one for each bathroom, and for each TV as remote!" |
| 03:48.34 | Sc0rpius | HP's 16 GB TouchPad on sale for $99 |
| 03:48.43 | Sc0rpius | I wonder if we can put another OS in that device |
| 03:48.55 | Sc0rpius | because that's some nice price |
| 03:49.05 | Sc0rpius | http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/19/let-the-liquidation-begin-hps-16gb-touchpad-on-sale-for-99/ |
| 03:50.51 | flailingmonkey | i don't even think there's a reason to but another OS on the device |
| 03:51.16 | SpeedEvil | I'd love to get it meego'd. |
| 03:51.17 | SpeedEvil | But. |
| 03:51.20 | flailingmonkey | my gf has been using a pixi for about a year, and has never been interested in apps |
| 03:51.22 | Sc0rpius | yeah that would be great |
| 03:51.30 | SpeedEvil | At that price, I'd be buying just as a web browser |
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| 03:51.41 | SpeedEvil | (in the UK, hp has it listed at $500 still) |
| 03:51.51 | Sc0rpius | it's a nice price only for an ocasional browsing/email/IM and PDF/eBook reader |
| 03:51.55 | flailingmonkey | enjoyable UX, solid OS and hardware specs make a bigger difference for her |
| 03:52.01 | Sc0rpius | even if you stick with what's left of WebOS there |
| 03:52.10 | flailingmonkey | and yeah, she only hits e-mail, web browsing and maps/GPS |
| 03:52.16 | javispedro | one for each bathroom! |
| 03:52.20 | Sc0rpius | supposedly after this Saturday (tomorrow?) the cut price will be worldwide |
| 03:52.34 | flailingmonkey | i really really want to get some dirt cheap pre3 |
| 03:52.34 | javispedro | note that nowhere says worldwide |
| 03:52.45 | javispedro | technically the US firesale starts tomorrow |
| 03:52.48 | SpeedEvil | Scorcerer: Source? |
| 03:52.50 | javispedro | but they're already sold by out |
| 03:52.52 | Sc0rpius | well but 99% chances are next week that price is worldwide |
| 03:53.03 | javispedro | s/sold by out/sold out by now/ |
| 03:53.12 | Sc0rpius | heh ok |
| 03:53.15 | Sc0rpius | nice bot |
| 03:53.31 | flailingmonkey | I wonder if dealing with carriers was a major pain for HP... |
| 03:53.35 | SpeedEvil | Depending on quantities, it may make sense to carry on pricing it high for some countries. |
| 03:53.37 | Sc0rpius | s/nice bot/totally a different thing/ |
| 03:53.46 | SpeedEvil | It's possible that there may be very limited stocks in some countries. |
| 03:53.49 | flailingmonkey | because they're really taking a dump over every carrier that stocked their stuff with this |
| 03:53.55 | Sc0rpius | 123456 |
| 03:54.05 | Sc0rpius | s/^[1-3]+/ABC/ |
| 03:54.09 | Sc0rpius | :( |
| 03:54.29 | SpeedEvil | I think it only does very simple ones 1 1 1 |
| 03:54.33 | SpeedEvil | s/1/one/ |
| 03:54.53 | javispedro | that's why I usually omit the trailing slash. |
| 03:55.02 | Sc0rpius | yeah I can see |
| 03:55.17 | javispedro | I think the human brain is smart enough, no need for the stupid bot. |
| 03:55.31 | Sc0rpius | anyway |
| 03:55.38 | Sc0rpius | $99 it's damn good |
| 03:55.48 | Sc0rpius | and maybe that will attract the hack scene to put another OS on it |
| 03:55.58 | Sc0rpius | I even want one! |
| 03:56.12 | javispedro | don't even think mentioning Android. |
| 03:56.22 | Sc0rpius | I already have an Android tablet |
| 03:56.29 | Sc0rpius | which I really despise |
| 03:56.40 | Sc0rpius | I thought it was great, but after a couple of months you learn to hate it |
| 03:56.42 | flailingmonkey | you know what I'd put on TouchPad? |
| 03:56.52 | flailingmonkey | webOS :p |
| 03:59.15 | flailingmonkey | http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-16gb-touchpad-with-wi-fi-16gb-wifi/10173116.aspx?path=24aa74e36d1cba4ce76fdd5a9f3298cfen02 |
| 03:59.24 | flailingmonkey | check your local availablility, if you're in canada |
| 03:59.27 | flailingmonkey | already sold out |
| 03:59.42 | flailingmonkey | US best buy site is also "sold out online" and they aren't even reporting the price drop on the site |
| 04:00.11 | SpeedEvil | I question the $99 |
| 04:00.17 | SpeedEvil | It's ridiculously cheap |
| 04:00.33 | SpeedEvil | Surely they'd have had reasonable volumes at $200 |
| 04:02.19 | flailingmonkey | i don't know |
| 04:02.29 | flailingmonkey | $100 make absolutely sure it is completely gone |
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| 04:02.39 | flailingmonkey | $200, probably would sell 90%? |
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| 04:56.06 | xnt14 | DocScrutinizer, I have an IPv6 address on my N900 now⦠how would I check the power draw of the 3G Radio? |
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| 05:03.33 | DocScrutinizer | almost impossible afaik |
| 05:04.29 | xnt14 | Then how were the values on the wiki obtained? Multimeter attached to the N900's hardware directly? |
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| 05:09.43 | DocScrutinizer | no, but you can't tell for sure if that's really related to IPv6 IP |
| 05:10.35 | DocScrutinizer | of course you can check absolute power consumption for Phone Mode incl GPRS and for Tablet Mode |
| 05:10.48 | DocScrutinizer | use the script |
| 05:11.47 | DocScrutinizer | bq27200.sh |
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| 05:24.32 | xnt14 | DocScrutinizer, hmm, I'll give it a try. |
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| 05:45.37 | SpeedEvil | xnt14: the numbers were from the charge meter. |
| 05:46.00 | SpeedEvil | I'd be astonished if there were significant differences between IPV4/6 |
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| 05:57.10 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: not between IPv4/6 but between NATed and publicly ping'able IP |
| 05:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | another method to tell when OTA data traffic happens without ifconfig noticing it, was to attach one of those RF-exploiting LED batches to the phone |
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| 06:01.05 | SpeedEvil | oh - yeah |
| 06:01.24 | SpeedEvil | There was an interesting report from OFCOM on those. |
| 06:01.39 | DocScrutinizer | there's actually a lot of ways how carrier could cause your GSM modem suck battery without anything you could do about or how you'd even notice it. See e.g. |
| 06:01.40 | SpeedEvil | Unsurprisingly, they radiate rather a lot of harmonics. |
| 06:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~gsm-agps |
| 06:01.45 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP |
| 06:05.35 | DocScrutinizer | publicly visible and pingable IP another idiocy that carriers can do which would possibly cause your battery go down after just hours |
| 06:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | poorly configured T3212 timer or C1/C2 BTS handover criteria yet another way to make you cry "my battery life sucks" |
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| 06:08.52 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: indeed no surprise - actually those badges made my 6210 lose connection |
| 06:09.38 | DocScrutinizer | though there are electronically boosted battery-powered versions that should be way better wrt this |
| 06:09.40 | SpeedEvil | Or just being in an unfortunate location. |
| 06:11.27 | DocScrutinizer | I dunno if any of those, whether dirt cheap or battery powered with electronics, is capable of doing GSM/WCDMA multiband |
| 06:12.15 | DocScrutinizer | i.o.w. I know those critters from back when 3G was no publicly known term |
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| 06:21.53 | flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: so publicly visible IP on mobile device is bad in what use |
| 06:23.14 | DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: publicly visible IP allows me to suck empty your battery in as little as 2..3h and there's nuttin you can do about it, you won't even notice what's going on |
| 06:23.37 | DocScrutinizer | all I have to do is pingflood your IP |
| 06:23.49 | flailingmonkey | just by ping you mean, as network interface keeps waking up device |
| 06:24.53 | flailingmonkey | because unless ICMP (or any incoming connection) is blocked at network level, device still has to wake up to receive packets, even if it ignores them...? |
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| 06:25.00 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 06:25.05 | DocScrutinizer | not by waking up main processor, just by making modem crank up TX to send the ACK |
| 06:25.41 | SpeedEvil | Not an ack at tcp/ip level, but at the lower level. |
| 06:25.43 | DocScrutinizer | there's an ACK on GPRS protocol level afaik |
| 06:27.42 | DocScrutinizer | and you'll not even notice that as the whole protocol stack runs on modem processor |
| 06:29.26 | DocScrutinizer | so the whole magic of those powersaver optimizers that tear down GPRS connection whenever it's not needed is not because GPRS login eats much power in itself, but only by stopping inbound unsolicited traffic |
| 06:35.46 | crashanddie_ | So what are people thinking about the touchpad? |
| 06:35.50 | crashanddie_ | Worth buying a few? |
| 06:36.13 | crashanddie_ | morning gents, btw |
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| 06:43.22 | crashanddie_ | DocScrutinizer? |
| 06:43.42 | DocScrutinizer | touchpad? |
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| 06:53.01 | RST38h | Moo, gentlemen |
| 06:53.11 | RST38h | How is suffering today? Any more news? |
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| 07:10.57 | RST38h | HP's 16GB TouchPad on sale for $99 |
| 07:12.49 | psycho_oreos | seems like its for US only |
| 07:13.00 | RST38h | Canada and US |
| 07:13.23 | RST38h | Also Pre3 launch on AT&T is cancelled |
| 07:13.30 | SpeedEvil | can$?/ |
| 07:13.35 | RST38h | dunno |
| 07:13.35 | psycho_oreos | well NAM markets only :p |
| 07:13.36 | SpeedEvil | Or us$ in can |
| 07:13.57 | DocScrutinizer | aaah this touchpad |
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| 07:13.59 | RST38h | wonders if this whole thing will lead to an Atari2600 effect |
| 07:14.00 | SpeedEvil | has been reloading the UK page. |
| 07:14.18 | SpeedEvil | Still at 349 pounds (Around 550$) |
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| 07:15.42 | flailingmonkey | they are flying off the shelves |
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| 07:16.11 | RST38h | ...if you're a published webOS developer, Microsoft's gonna give you whatever you need to be a Windows Phone developer, like free phones and dev tools. So says Brandon Watson, who runs Windows Phone's Developer Experience program. |
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| 07:17.10 | robbiethe1st | Same with Nokia developer. sort of |
| 07:17.44 | robbiethe1st | At least, they were going to give me a year's free subscription to MS's app store or w/e |
| 07:17.55 | RST38h | same here |
| 07:18.07 | RST38h | but the amount of hoops to jump through, including giving your CC number, is too much |
| 07:18.14 | robbiethe1st | wow |
| 07:18.15 | RST38h | they can keep their membership to themselves |
| 07:18.18 | robbiethe1st | Same |
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| 07:18.54 | robbiethe1st | I, for one, have *no interest* in a Mobile OS that's not Linux based, and only a small interest in one without a full gnu toolset |
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| 07:19.42 | RST38h | Well, I am more pragmatic about these things, having interest in whatever can generate meprofit |
| 07:19.56 | RST38h | Still, no idea why I should develop for WinPhone |
| 07:20.17 | SpeedEvil | Also - a market with more players is more likely to have smaller ones than one with fewer. |
| 07:20.18 | RST38h | No way to turn profit there |
| 07:20.19 | antman8969 | dont do that... |
| 07:20.23 | robbiethe1st | Fair enough; I, on the other hand, don't expect to make any money - I'm doing it as a hobby. |
| 07:21.46 | DocScrutinizer | (keep their membership offers) indeed |
| 07:22.00 | DocScrutinizer | goes bathroom, throwing up |
| 07:22.32 | crashanddie_ | well |
| 07:22.39 | crashanddie_ | if the touchpad drops to a 100eur |
| 07:22.41 | crashanddie_ | I might get one |
| 07:22.48 | crashanddie_ | just to see how hackable it is |
| 07:23.02 | robbiethe1st | Yea |
| 07:23.42 | RST38h | might be a good platform to hack together a new ui |
| 07:24.46 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_: I stopped that habit. I now restrict my interest mostly to devices that I get for free, as otherwise I'd be broke all month and ran short on stowage space in my attic |
| 07:25.00 | crashanddie_ | sure |
| 07:25.32 | crashanddie_ | But I haven't bought anything stupid |
| 07:25.49 | crashanddie_ | and at least, with this one, I'd know _beforehand_ that there will be no support nor anything |
| 07:25.54 | crashanddie_ | unlike the N* |
| 07:26.24 | crashanddie_ | Oh, and this one made me laugh: http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=7638 |
| 07:29.09 | crashanddie_ | bbl, torchwood |
| 07:29.13 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:29.16 | antman8969 | looking now... appears to be all out of stock? |
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| 07:29.37 | flailingmonkey | out of stock online |
| 07:29.48 | antman8969 | will that price be in stores too? |
| 07:29.49 | flailingmonkey | if you had to take losses on your own stock, you wouldn't want to pay for any shipping |
| 07:29.55 | flailingmonkey | yeah it's going to have to be |
| 07:30.03 | flailingmonkey | with most places price matching and all |
| 07:30.17 | antman8969 | maybe i'll head over to best buy tomorrow and see if they're doing it |
| 07:30.22 | antman8969 | 99 bucks, why not |
| 07:30.31 | crashanddie_ | antman8969: that'll be too late imo |
| 07:30.32 | flailingmonkey | and there was lots of stock already in stores, so i expect in person visits to stores will be fruitful |
| 07:30.47 | crashanddie_ | qole picked up a couple 32gb models |
| 07:30.50 | crashanddie_ | the 16gb models were sold out |
| 07:30.58 | antman8969 | 150 is still worth it |
| 07:31.01 | antman8969 | after all |
| 07:31.10 | antman8969 | if I had a full android tablet, 99% of my time would be web browsing |
| 07:31.13 | crashanddie_ | well, 150 is nearly worth it for 32gb of flash, haha |
| 07:31.32 | RST38h | sad shit |
| 07:31.41 | crashanddie_ | don't know |
| 07:31.47 | RST38h | And they are not open sourcing the webos, right? =) |
| 07:31.53 | crashanddie_ | At least they're giving them away, rather than burning it |
| 07:32.01 | antman8969 | ^^ |
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| 07:35.53 | flailingmonkey | hp touchpad is alright |
| 07:36.06 | flailingmonkey | but i really really want some of that pre3 stock |
| 07:36.24 | flailingmonkey | AT&T cancels its bulk orders, so where will the units go |
| 07:37.08 | antman8969 | I don't get why people like the pre3? Am I missing something? |
| 07:37.34 | flailingmonkey | in my case, i want to upgrade my gf from a pixi :p |
| 07:37.57 | antman8969 | lol |
| 07:38.11 | flailingmonkey | but having used the pixi, i can see how the UX would be nice with good hardware. pixi is like a 2 legged dog |
| 07:40.34 | antman8969 | watching os tour right now to decide if I'll want it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF0om_FxIhY |
| 07:40.38 | antman8969 | mobiletechreview <3 |
| 07:42.20 | psycho_oreos | HP is killing webOS, I guess people wanting to buy equipments that come with webOSãin a bid to secure their love with webOS :p |
| 07:43.07 | flailingmonkey | the tablet is getting bought up because it's amazing for the price it is going for |
| 07:43.23 | SpeedEvil | I would buy one at $99 as a movie/mp3/ebook reader only |
| 07:43.32 | antman8969 | pretty much |
| 07:43.43 | antman8969 | I could care less about webOS, Its the 99$ pricetag |
| 07:43.44 | SpeedEvil | The web browser makes it ridiculously good value. |
| 07:44.00 | SpeedEvil | The rest of the apps - don't really care. |
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| 07:44.38 | psycho_oreos | again too bad its only for NAMãonly :) |
| 07:44.45 | flailingmonkey | my girlfriend has pixi, running webOS. she's never even been curious about apps. E-mail, Browser and Maps |
| 07:45.03 | flailingmonkey | and good UX for those three |
| 07:45.15 | SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: I believe so. Though I am reloading the UK HP page |
| 07:45.32 | RST38h | wazd:moo |
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| 07:48.17 | psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, shame really :) maybe HP is trying to cut back on its losses by cutting the cost of shipping as well?ã:) |
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| 07:48.48 | flailingmonkey | i didn't even realize webOS had quickoffice, even better |
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| 07:49.36 | psycho_oreos | eww quickoffice, failoffice |
| 07:50.01 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: maybe apple has sued HP in all countries on this globe except NAM |
| 07:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | considers starting evil plans on how to nuke Apple off the surface of this earth |
| 07:50.58 | antman8969 | phonedog says the tablet is buggy as hell... watching vid now |
| 07:51.09 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, I didn't imagine apple would have stopped suing HPãthere, maybe they stuffed the DA's mailbox full of allegations against HTC, Samsung, et. al.'s patent infringements? ;) |
| 07:52.46 | psycho_oreos | it honestly never ceases to amaze me how the irony of certain man-made goods, the patent and how in certain areas you get people so finicky over trivial matters but in other cases its not so the case. |
| 07:53.16 | DocScrutinizer | you'd hope pApple finally achieves patents are considered mega bullshit and abolished worldwide |
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| 07:53.58 | DocScrutinizer | "but ours has rounded corners, so yours mustn't use this design detail!" WTF?!!!! |
| 07:54.06 | psycho_oreos | Looking at car manufacturers where it seems like European cars are generally taking the lead on innovations and the rest of the world either copies/mimicks or creates their own other form of innovation. It just seems as thought there's no stupid suing over patented design in cars as there are in computers and related electronics |
| 07:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | as if Apple had invented the rounded corner or sth |
| 07:54.40 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure if Apple started creating cars, it'll probably start suing other car manufacturers as well *laughs hysterically* |
| 07:55.28 | DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: They'd start everybody using round objects to roll along a flat surface |
| 07:55.35 | Trewas | apple is paying good money to nokia for every iphone they sell, it's not like apple is the only one (ab)using patent system |
| 07:55.41 | DocScrutinizer | s/start/start sueing/ |
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| 07:56.59 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, and I'm sure plenty of other little miniscule advancements they've made being turned into a patent of its own. Its like a minefield out there |
| 07:57.22 | psycho_oreos | I thought it was Apple who started suing nokia not the vice versa |
| 07:57.45 | DocScrutinizer | honestly we (the consumers) should outright boycott each manufacturer that rather than to build better stuff rather thinks suing others for doing so |
| 07:58.15 | psycho_oreos | but hey, nobody would deny that apple's racking up of patent infringements is hardly any different from oracle's ulterior motives |
| 07:58.56 | Trewas | psycho_oreos: nah, and apple ended paying quite a lot to nokia |
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| 08:00.10 | DocScrutinizer | is going to patent electrons, neutrons and protons |
| 08:00.37 | DocScrutinizer | of course including "any derived work" |
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| 08:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | ""...and all combinations thereof, in whatever modifications" |
| 08:03.02 | DocScrutinizer | is going to patent the 4 elementary forces |
| 08:03.23 | DocScrutinizer | ""...and all combinations and derivatives thereof, in whatever modifications" |
| 08:03.38 | flailingmonkey | it's a game that's tangentally related to their business. it's like the gambling minigame you have in a video game |
| 08:04.07 | DocScrutinizer | won that game, definitely |
| 08:04.28 | DocScrutinizer | needed me just as few as 2 patents |
| 08:04.59 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I considered that. |
| 08:05.09 | DocScrutinizer | registers third patent: space-time-continuum |
| 08:05.38 | DocScrutinizer | no come here Apple, let's fight it out |
| 08:06.18 | flailingmonkey | you act as though Apple doesn't already have patent on cellular respiration |
| 08:06.35 | flailingmonkey | so when you come to sue, they give you cease and desist for being alive :p |
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| 08:07.16 | SpeedEvil | 'A device that senses directly or indirectly the strong or weak force, gravitation, or electromagnetism, performs computations, and outputs directly or indirectly through effectuators using those same forces' |
| 08:07.21 | DocScrutinizer | they can do so only by infringing my first 2 patents, while their mere existence infringes all 3 of my patents |
| 08:08.01 | flailingmonkey | yet they have the lawyers to push their countersuit through before your suit |
| 08:08.18 | flailingmonkey | and the pocketed judges and govenment officals of course |
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| 08:09.06 | DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: I have my evil secret plans to nuke them off the globe though |
| 08:09.20 | flailingmonkey | might be the only option :p |
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| 08:20.00 | DocScrutinizer | ""Dear Steve. While I still was about to save money from my daily fitness studio visits to afford buying the iPad-II, I heard about apple sueing competitors for using same round corners on their tabs as Aplle does on iPad. That's not the kind of device I am eager to own. Please tell me when Apple managed to rollout a device that's just so much better than competitors' that it doesn't need this sort of evil protection to gain traction in |
| 08:20.02 | DocScrutinizer | market, Sincerely, DocScrutinizer "" |
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| 08:26.03 | DocScrutinizer | ooh forgot: "I also learned Apple is photoshopping fake evidence to convince court about competitors' design being a copy of Apple's. That's not the kind of image of a company I'd like to own products made by them. I'd be ashamed carrying one of Apple's products in the public" |
| 08:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't Steve know that sympathy always is with the underdog, not with the evil huge monopolist? |
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| 08:58.28 | DocScrutinizer | LOL >>We've always said MeeGo on the N900 will never be ready for "end users" it's not yet and probably never will be a goal for the project.[...]When I talk about MeeGo on talk.maemo.org, I'm targetting the developers, we need people to port apps to the platform and help us make it more complete, so we're trying to attract more involvement from maemo developers and grow our community.<< So let me make sure I get this right: maemo devels |
| 08:58.29 | DocScrutinizer | should join the meegoCE community to make an OS&apps more complete, though the OS&apps isn't, never was, and never will be meant for "the maemo users" - DANG *this* makes a lot of sense -- http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1028505&postcount=103 |
| 09:01.37 | flailingmonkey | yeaaa |
| 09:03.03 | DocScrutinizer | probably all those "headhunters" should focus on HARMattan developer scene rather than generic maemo fremantle as found in tmo and here. They'd then target the devels that are actually about to do sth for the platform meegoCE is meant to eventually run on AIUI, and wouldn't look like actively trying to blood-let maemo developer scene |
| 09:04.49 | flailingmonkey | i feel like mobile (phone) computing apps world is about to crash in on itself over next 2 years |
| 09:05.01 | DocScrutinizer | same here |
| 09:05.12 | ab | I think they are still in tenets of Nokia's magical sticking to branding words that were selected to replace previous branding words |
| 09:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | feels kinda like the dotcom bubble |
| 09:05.42 | flailingmonkey | yeah. the fact that it feels like a bubble... thats saying that these apps priced at 0.99 are already overvalued... |
| 09:05.58 | flailingmonkey | which really means what many have already concluded: most mobile apps are rubbish |
| 09:06.03 | flailingmonkey | worth nothing at all |
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| 09:07.18 | flailingmonkey | i think most of these mobile app companies are private, so there isn't the extra explosion of stock market investors |
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| 09:08.47 | DocScrutinizer | you all know the "got a buck?" punks. Here we got a special individual that instead 'sold' free advertisement fliers to tourists for a buck. Appstore 0.99 apps seem alike |
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| 09:15.59 | flailingmonkey | sold advert fliers? people bought fliers...? |
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| 09:51.55 | thp | X-Fade: ping |
| 09:53.54 | jiero | anybody using Linux, please review my design proposal of WM/light DE |
| 09:54.00 | jiero | http://forum.ubuntu.org.cn/viewtopic.php?f=168&t=342349 |
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| 10:15.31 | thp | X-Fade: if you have time, please have a look at the second paragraph in http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2011-August/028578.html - seems to be an autobuilder/repo problem? |
| 10:20.17 | DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: indeed some japanese do, probably because they don't understand a word. Residents "buy" a flier occasionally to get rid of the bug, he can be *very* 'convincing' (probably learnt in Morocco or India) |
| 10:20.46 | flailingmonkey | oh |
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| 10:29.32 | DocScrutinizer | s/bug/tick/ |
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| 11:43.41 | jiero | I had a thought about hildon desktop( merging with Firefox tab group and meego harmattan) acutally. http://forum.ubuntu.org.cn/viewtopic.php?f=168&t=342349 |
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| 12:01.23 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf p.8 impedance spectroscopy |
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| 12:27.57 | onen|openBmap | I was not sure yesterday, was your comment " it's dirt simple: short D+ with D-", about my issue with my "non charging" car adapter for the n900? |
| 12:28.13 | onen|openBmap | oups wrong room, sorry |
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| 12:47.45 | ShadowJK | onen|openBmap, sounds applicable |
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| 13:02.00 | RST38h | wazd: moo again |
| 13:02.08 | RST38h | wazd: so what were the changes to the bitmaps? =) |
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| 13:13.45 | Pali | ping X-Fade |
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| 13:20.05 | javispedro | lcuk: there? |
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| 13:43.03 | Primes | hello I'd like help with the packaging dependencies on my n900 |
| 13:48.00 | *** join/#maemo thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
| 13:52.11 | DocScrutinizer | and just another one on top: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1040369#post1040369 |
| 13:53.10 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I think that arguing that Meego for the N900 is not OSS is stupid. |
| 13:53.40 | javispedro | it will never absolutely fully totally completelly be OSS because of stuff like the GLES driver. |
| 13:53.54 | DocScrutinizer | it's stupid to argue meegoCE_as_is_right_now is *any* better in _any_ regard than fremantle |
| 13:54.04 | javispedro | it's way more OSS. |
| 13:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | who gives a shit? |
| 13:54.27 | javispedro | well, the post you quoted seemingly gives a shit |
| 13:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | If I want OSS I get me debian on my N900 |
| 13:54.58 | DocScrutinizer | nonono, read it again |
| 13:55.19 | MohammadAG | need HP, touchpad! |
| 13:55.33 | javispedro | MohammadAG: me too, but seemingly out of US people are rather boned. |
| 13:55.39 | MohammadAG | where can I get the 32GB one for 150? |
| 13:55.43 | DocScrutinizer | >>My argument is that Maemo is more functional than MeeGo, and by far more mature. You are the one that started making claims that because it was "more open" it was "better". I've consistently said that regardless of how much more open it is, unless it's 100% open it has the same flaw as Maemo, making the argument of which is "more open" a moot point.<< |
| 13:56.04 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: no, that's stupid, sorry. |
| 13:56.23 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: bme and the GL driver being closed is one thing. Half of the user space applications being closed is an entirely different thing. |
| 13:56.36 | javispedro | his point that a single component being closed ruins the entire thing is bogus |
| 13:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: closed userspace worse than _no_ userspace? SURE |
| 13:57.25 | javispedro | ? |
| 13:57.33 | javispedro | ah,. |
| 13:57.41 | MohammadAG | javispedro, a US store works fine, but hp.com is out of stock |
| 13:57.44 | MohammadAG | and amazon.com has it for 400 |
| 13:58.10 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: well that's the price you pay (uselessness). I'm just saying the the his OSS arguments are bogus. |
| 13:58.13 | DocScrutinizer | woody says "why do you advertise meego as the best thing since sliced bread, when you have no single point where it's better _right now_ than fremantel?" I agree with that wholeheartedly |
| 13:58.18 | javispedro | MohammadAG: neither ships to outside US. |
| 13:58.50 | *** join/#maemo keesj (~keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 13:59.03 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I obviously also think that Meego is more useless than Maemo. I'm not an idiot. I use Maemo. |
| 13:59.15 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: but it IS more OSS. He cannot argue that. |
| 13:59.24 | DocScrutinizer | he doesn't |
| 13:59.27 | javispedro | he does |
| 13:59.40 | MohammadAG | webOS is better than Android, in the sense that it's closer to desktop distros right? |
| 13:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | no, he says there's no such thing like more OSS, either it' |
| 13:59.49 | javispedro | when Attila tells him that Meego is more open thus has more chances of future, he rebuffes it. |
| 13:59.49 | DocScrutinizer | s free |
| 13:59.51 | DocScrutinizer | or not |
| 14:00.00 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: and that's what I think is stupid. |
| 14:00.07 | DocScrutinizer | which is arguable but not his core point |
| 14:00.10 | javispedro | MohammadAG: yes, it can even run X11. |
| 14:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | esp since meego still has BME and similar shit |
| 14:00.29 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it is his core point; it is the reason he's trollanswering to Attila. |
| 14:00.56 | *** join/#maemo Shapeshifter (~Shapeshif@unaffiliated/shapeshifter) |
| 14:01.15 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 14:02.41 | *** join/#maemo paroneayea (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 14:02.44 | DocScrutinizer | >>My argument is that Maemo is more functional than MeeGo, and by far more mature. You are the one that started making claims that because it was "more open" it was "better". I've consistently said that regardless of how much more open it is, unless it's 100% open it has the same flaw as Maemo, making the argument of which is "more open" a moot point.<< |
| 14:02.53 | DocScrutinizer | where is it his core point here? |
| 14:03.24 | javispedro | <javispedro> his point that a single component being closed ruins the entire thing is bogus |
| 14:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | he never said "single component" |
| 14:03.40 | MohammadAG | javispedro, I can ship to someone in the US, I just can't find a store that has it in stock with the low price tag |
| 14:04.32 | DocScrutinizer | and he's not either saying it ruins the thing, he says it ruins the argument of meego being "better" |
| 14:04.52 | DocScrutinizer | please reread! |
| 14:05.03 | ShadowJK | it would be funny if it turned out to be a rumor (touchpad price slash) |
| 14:05.40 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: so you don't think him saying "it has the same flaw as Maemo" is saying it ruins the entire thing? |
| 14:05.48 | *** join/#maemo Oppo|n900 (~MrOpposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) |
| 14:05.50 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 14:05.56 | javispedro | and it DOESN'T have the same flaw as Maemo either way. |
| 14:06.03 | DocScrutinizer | aha |
| 14:06.24 | GAN900 | ShadowJK, prices have been slashed, inventories are empty. |
| 14:06.31 | GAN900 | MohammadAG, nor I. |
| 14:07.21 | ShadowJK | eonwders why they had ipad-like pricing in the first place |
| 14:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | it seems 95% of reader are not able to keep a thought across more than 1.5 sentences |
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| 14:07.36 | MohammadAG | GAN900, got a local walmart? |
| 14:07.47 | MohammadAG | apparently they sell them in store for the low price |
| 14:08.07 | DocScrutinizer | even that short quote above is obviously impossible to get over right |
| 14:08.51 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: sorry but I disagree. It's his main point. |
| 14:09.01 | DocScrutinizer | sure, ok |
| 14:09.07 | javispedro | Just watch how he's going to troll me again when I quote that exact quote. |
| 14:12.31 | MohammadAG | my FMTX's starting to suck, any tips? |
| 14:14.00 | GAN900 | MohammadAG, out of stock |
| 14:14.33 | DocScrutinizer | I watch (and read) http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1028548&postcount=104 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1028628&postcount=107 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1040369#post1040369 And I wouldn't know how to phrase any word better in any of those posts, and when I read >>I don't care about "end-users" the people that are here from buying the N900 thinking it was something it wasn't, that is not an aspect of the community |
| 14:14.34 | DocScrutinizer | I've particularly enjoyed having around here the past year. Talk to most developers here and they all pretty much say the same thing.<< Originally Posted by tswindell http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1028565#post1028565 I know which side I'm on, no second pondering, no doubts, nothing left to say |
| 14:14.41 | GAN900 | as are Staples, Office Depot and Best Buy |
| 14:14.53 | Primes | is there some way to find out which app(s) have a particular dependency? I'd like to locate that app so I can uninstall it, hopefully curing my problem |
| 14:16.01 | NIN101 | apt-cache show [packagename] if it's from the repo. |
| 14:16.02 | ShadowJK | apt-cache rdepends alibrary |
| 14:16.12 | NIN101 | or better this :-). |
| 14:16.45 | ShadowJK | rdepends shows everything that has a dependency on whatever you type after rdepends |
| 14:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | basically meego been still-born since beginning, and I never been 100% convinced of the contrary for a single day. Now it's becoming so obvious that only those that are the 1st hour protagonists of an alternative to maemo are suffering from the "my child" syndrome, everybody else seeing clearly meego is a dead-end with no potential to ever come on par to fremantle as long as we're evaluationg its value for "the maemo community" |
| 14:19.30 | MohammadAG | GAN900, even stores? |
| 14:20.20 | javispedro | as I was saying yesterday they'd run out of stock even before 7.00 AM :) |
| 14:21.38 | MohammadAG | any ideas if they'll stock up soon? |
| 14:21.41 | GAN900 | MohammadAG, particularly stores. |
| 14:21.44 | javispedro | probably not |
| 14:21.44 | GAN900 | Doubt it |
| 14:21.48 | GAN900 | Clearance item. |
| 14:21.50 | Primes | thanks ShadowJK and NIN101 I'm trying apt-cache now |
| 14:21.53 | DocScrutinizer | and it's obviously not only me who's thinking it's bold when I ask "how to intercept/modify an outgoing call/phonenumber? My customers are asking for this feature" I get the answer (from lcuk) "fool! help implementing it to meego! why would you even bother doing it for fremantle?" |
| 14:22.22 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: because you MIGHT not be able to do it for fremantle |
| 14:22.26 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: while you surely can for Meego. |
| 14:22.51 | MohammadAG | grr |
| 14:23.58 | GAN900 | MohammadAG, some'll probably show up on eBay for only marginally inflated prices. |
| 14:24.01 | DocScrutinizer | I asked a bit more verbose and my question already included a suggestion *how it could be done in fremantle* - just it was like "we don't plan to do anything about this friggin telepathy implementation used in fremantle, heel we won't even help you figure how you could patch it so it provides this function" |
| 14:24.40 | DocScrutinizer | s/just it/just the answer/ |
| 14:27.24 | DocScrutinizer | "...but help to implement it for meego, you're more than welcome" WTF?!!! either this is a library/toolkit/middleware then it should be FSCKNG a dontcare which side of the fence gets the function first as it gets ported anyway, just I wasn't in meego development but asked for maemo. Or this is not, then WTF a second time |
| 14:28.28 | javispedro | because for the people you are asking Meego is _UPSTREAM_ |
| 14:28.39 | DocScrutinizer | and then you wonder why several people (incl me) are frowning at meegoCE? |
| 14:29.04 | javispedro | you're adopting a stupid posture. |
| 14:29.22 | DocScrutinizer | and on the harsh way we get suggested to abandon maemo in favour of a halfdone meegoCE |
| 14:29.30 | javispedro | It'll be like me going to the SDL forums and telling them, "hey, I've done all these changes to SDL1.2" |
| 14:29.46 | javispedro | they'd tell me "why you didn't do them to SDL1.3??? They could be rather useful there!!!" |
| 14:30.21 | javispedro | and I would be like "oooh weelll I have many software that uses SDL1.2 and not 1.3, and I "feel" that 1.2 is better, plus 1.3 seems to be still under development..." |
| 14:30.43 | javispedro | replace 1.2 with Maemo and 1.3 with Meego and you get exactly the same story. |
| 14:30.45 | DocScrutinizer | no, suggesting to implement sth to telepathy meego and not to bother about maemo is quite a different thing |
| 14:30.54 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: elaborate why. |
| 14:31.34 | javispedro | and note that I'm obviously in the 1.2 side in the SDL story. But I don't make a fuss about it. |
| 14:31.53 | DocScrutinizer | if that's not obvious then maybe your analogy was equally not exactly obvious |
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| 14:32.25 | javispedro | developers care about their latest toy, period. |
| 14:32.30 | javispedro | that is the analogy. |
| 14:32.55 | DocScrutinizer | pff, how's meego the toy of collabora telepathy developers? |
| 14:33.06 | javispedro | they are using a more recent version of telepathy. |
| 14:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 14:33.25 | javispedro | so it's their latest toy. |
| 14:33.43 | DocScrutinizer | is this enough of a reason to suggest "don't bother about meamo!" |
| 14:34.00 | kerio | nope! |
| 14:34.04 | kerio | you tell them doc |
| 14:34.24 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yes. for them at least. |
| 14:34.36 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you might have some other goals in mind like I do in the above SDL story. |
| 14:34.46 | javispedro | like support older applications. older devices. whatever. |
| 14:34.59 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, but I have to say they can call themselves lucky I'm not their team lead |
| 14:35.19 | javispedro | I have to agree there. |
| 14:35.26 | DocScrutinizer | I bet |
| 14:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | btw javispedro I'd suggest you get a device with gles1.3 then |
| 14:36.05 | javispedro | SDL1.3 :) |
| 14:36.13 | DocScrutinizer | as that's my analogy for you to what lcuk suggested to me |
| 14:36.21 | DocScrutinizer | SDL whatever |
| 14:36.27 | javispedro | which is why I understand both point of views. |
| 14:36.41 | javispedro | I'm not getting a device with SDL1.3. I'm not complaining either. |
| 14:36.54 | javispedro | I know I'm on my own. |
| 14:37.48 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not complaining about being on my own, I object to suggestions like these which are bold and offensive and stupid |
| 14:38.20 | javispedro | they are trying to solve their chicken and egg problem. |
| 14:38.41 | javispedro | and they do not understand you do not have the energy to be their rat lab. |
| 14:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | and now we'Re back to the whole woody thing, as the whole thread was about meego folks suggesting to everybody to abandon maemo (at least to all devels) |
| 14:39.30 | javispedro | if they DIDN'T do that how they'd get a single Meego developer even |
| 14:39.38 | javispedro | they should tell everyone "no, don't come to Meego"? |
| 14:39.50 | DocScrutinizer | while this isn't exactly written there this way, it's my short sum-up |
| 14:40.00 | javispedro | obviously not. They are happy with they job; they want more people; they invite everyone they can as many times as they can. |
| 14:40.41 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 14:40.41 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 14:41.31 | DocScrutinizer | haha, yeah "why would you even bother implementing it in maemo? do it in meego rather" Polite suggestion to _join_ their club, while I'm free to further support maemo - I see |
| 14:41.59 | *** join/#maemo Scifig (~Scifig@c-24-4-32-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:42.02 | javispedro | from a Meego developer PoV, Maemo is old baggage. Put yourself on their skin. |
| 14:42.13 | DocScrutinizer | DUH no! |
| 14:43.01 | *** join/#maemo dotblank (~num@pool-71-176-231-80.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:43.12 | javispedro | Imagine if I were $RANDOM_GUY and asked you about some info on, I don't know, these modifications I've made to SHR 2007 |
| 14:43.16 | DocScrutinizer | tries for 10s... "mer: years of work - dead. Meego: years of work - going to die" |
| 14:43.31 | DocScrutinizer | too depressing to put on their skin |
| 14:43.33 | andre__ | (Mer wasn't *years* of work) |
| 14:43.42 | javispedro | your ration answer would probably be "why the hell did you use such an old version??? do it in 2009 rather!" |
| 14:43.46 | javispedro | *rational |
| 14:45.05 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: not if I knew that 98% of real world installations are on that particular release |
| 14:45.13 | Primes | when I try a dpkg --configure -a, it works except for it tries to copy libportaudio2 file (rename) from /opt/maemo/usr/share/doc/ usr/share/doc BUT in those directory are readme saying the files were removed by docpurge. Can I get rid of the error message just by creating some dummy file? I don't think doc files will change the operation at all. Nothing seems to depend on libportaudio2?? |
| 14:45.34 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: pft, and you wouldn't be interested in getting these installations moved to 2009? |
| 14:46.02 | DocScrutinizer | no, not until I was ready to at least _accept_ "end-users" |
| 14:46.02 | javispedro | considering one way to aid in that goal would be to have $COOL_MODIFICATION made by $RANDOM_GUY in 2009 instead of 2007 |
| 14:46.11 | *** join/#maemo guerby (~guerby@60.91.75.86.rev.sfr.net) |
| 14:46.35 | javispedro | but then comes the chicken and egg problem. |
| 14:46.48 | DocScrutinizer | while meego-arm aka CE deliberately is meant to never be end-user ready on N900 |
| 14:47.55 | javispedro | how deliberately? they ask you to solve a Riemann integral? |
| 14:47.59 | javispedro | before each boot? |
| 14:48.34 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:48.48 | kerio | fuck riemann integration |
| 14:48.48 | kerio | lebesgue integration is where it's at |
| 14:48.49 | Primes | to Prove the Riemann Hypothesis? |
| 14:48.57 | kerio | Primes: ...no |
| 14:49.23 | kerio | Riemann integrals are just called "integrals" by most people |
| 14:50.01 | Primes | Ah ok, I call them just integrals. The Riemann hypothesis relates to gaps between prime numbers, one of the biggest unsolved problems in math |
| 14:50.29 | DocScrutinizer | Originally Posted by tswindell View Post |
| 14:50.31 | DocScrutinizer | I guess there's a misconception of what we're doing here. We've always said MeeGo on the N900 will never be ready for "end users" [ |
| 14:50.53 | Primes | but they did say it would be usable as a phone for "hacker users" |
| 14:51.00 | DocScrutinizer | pfff |
| 14:51.02 | javispedro | that's not deliberate, that's hacker optimism at work ;) |
| 14:51.21 | javispedro | they are obviously not hiring a UI designer though. |
| 14:51.44 | Primes | and that would suit me. Not "idiot proof" as a grandma phone, but still functional |
| 14:52.01 | MohammadAG | GAN900, canadian stores don't ship to the US right? |
| 14:52.09 | *** join/#maemo Iluminator101 (~user@unaffiliated/iluminator101) |
| 14:52.30 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 14:52.46 | Iluminator101 | could i dist upgrade n900 |
| 14:53.22 | *** join/#maemo c2pLaY (~yep@unaffiliated/c2play) |
| 14:53.34 | javispedro | Iluminator101: what for? and, dist upgrade to what? |
| 14:53.45 | DocScrutinizer | If I ask for a function in telepathy, to build an app asked for by _end-users_ on fremantle, and I am utterly clear about that fact and ask collabora guys how I could possibly interface/intercept/patch telepathy to get it done, and the answer is "don't bother about maemo, do it on meego!" then that's *beeep*[censored] |
| 14:54.14 | javispedro | again points to the SDL1.2 vs 1.3 example, or the $PROGRAM version 2007 vs version 2011 |
| 14:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | if you didn't notice, the above line was my answer to that |
| 14:54.51 | javispedro | if their answer is not similar to the one you have been given, it's because they are a commercial software company and you have a rather large wallet |
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| 14:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | BS |
| 14:56.02 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-138-102.w92-161.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:56.02 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 14:56.13 | DocScrutinizer | better don't answer at all rather than suggest to move to friggin meego which is not even their "toy" unlike you suggested |
| 14:56.22 | javispedro | BETTER DON'T ANSWER???? |
| 14:56.27 | javispedro | ok, this stops now. |
| 14:57.15 | javispedro | goes away on clickrage to find $99 TouchPad. |
| 14:57.18 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: really, you better should by a HTC |
| 14:57.22 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@77.109.121.166.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 14:57.29 | DocScrutinizer | buy* |
| 14:57.49 | javispedro | HTC wouldn't answer. |
| 14:58.13 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh, as opposed to whom? |
| 14:58.19 | DocScrutinizer | meego? Nokia? |
| 14:58.23 | javispedro | and as you can see, I hate not being answered. Nokia's move to Meego is much better. |
| 14:59.19 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and supported by collabora |
| 14:59.59 | DocScrutinizer | who suggest developers to suggest to their end users to move to ... what? meegoCE? not exactly! wait for N9? |
| 15:00.45 | javispedro | which'll eventually run meegoCE, mwahaha. |
| 15:01.03 | DocScrutinizer | but wait, meego folks don't give a shit about end users </quote> |
| 15:01.43 | javispedro | are you now going to rediscover the supposed "problem with opensource"? |
| 15:01.55 | javispedro | hackers don't give a shit about end users. it's their itch. |
| 15:02.01 | DocScrutinizer | so the suggestion I shall move on to meego was correct, outright ignoring my other half of the sentence that this question is about implementing sth for end users on fremantle |
| 15:02.21 | javispedro | but this tends to work, because despite some people believe hackers are not that different persons, and end-users' needs are similar to hacker's. |
| 15:02.50 | *** join/#maemo InvalidHandle (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe8efb00-63.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:02.57 | DocScrutinizer | so I'm obviously no hacker then |
| 15:03.07 | DocScrutinizer | too old to be a hacker :-P |
| 15:03.35 | javispedro | you are not doing fart apps aren't you? |
| 15:03.43 | DocScrutinizer | just all new to me that Nokia planned to populate OVI store with hacker elaborates |
| 15:04.12 | DocScrutinizer | and I actually planned to *sell* this app |
| 15:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | sighs and turns away. Play nice children, good luck with your new toys |
| 15:05.43 | DocScrutinizer | considers writing a book "the secrets of success". Chapter one: "continuity is the key" |
| 15:06.10 | javispedro | and I'd agree. but that's a different story. |
| 15:06.33 | DocScrutinizer | chapter 2: "why your product won't payback in the first 2 years" |
| 15:07.24 | DocScrutinizer | chapter 3: "why it's a really poor idea to start a new product every 12 months then, if you don't have the manpower to support the older products" |
| 15:07.31 | javispedro | MohammadAG: GAN900 according to #webos hp.com has more stock now |
| 15:08.24 | javispedro | MohammadAG: GAN900: if any of you can get an order, may I ask for one? I have no way of getting a US adress atm. |
| 15:08.37 | javispedro | (and no idea if this offer will cross the atlantic...) |
| 15:08.48 | javispedro | s/atm// ;) |
| 15:10.40 | MohammadAG | javispedro, find me one |
| 15:13.25 | javispedro | 16GB is on hp.com seemingly |
| 15:13.55 | javispedro | ah, Small&Medium Business store :S |
| 15:15.18 | Primes | docscrutiniser , netgear need to learn these lessons |
| 15:15.33 | Pali | MohammadAG: hello, some days ago I wrote you about osso-wlan. Could it be imported to gitorious CSSU? |
| 15:16.18 | Primes | now I fixed my dpkg error, I'm still working to fix the bad nokia data gathering application |
| 15:16.30 | javispedro | Pali: out of curiosity, what did you do to osso-wlan? |
| 15:16.56 | Pali | there is patch for packet injection wl1251 driver |
| 15:17.27 | javispedro | ah |
| 15:19.01 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: is it supporting whole range of functionality of the stock component? is this thoroughly tested? Does it even scratch an itch normal users may have with stock fremantle? |
| 15:19.33 | Pali | Here is patch: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/osso-wlan_scan-retry.patch |
| 15:19.56 | DocScrutinizer | is it tested? for stability, side effects, power consumption... |
| 15:20.04 | Pali | It only fix bug in osso_wlan when using packet injection patch |
| 15:20.34 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@109.236.131.57) |
| 15:20.40 | Pali | I'm using it, without problems, but I do not know if it should be used... needs more people to test |
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| 15:21.01 | Primes | there is some difference in the configured repos in app man versus fast app man. eg app man has fremantle 1.2 ovi but fapman has this disabled. For now fapman has extras-devel enabled too. Should these two app managers have the same repos consistently or is that a bad idea? Would seem to make sense to me? |
| 15:21.09 | DocScrutinizer | CSSU is primarily about fixing bugs in stock distro that can't get fixed by deploying 'normal' packages as the component is part of the meta-PR |
| 15:21.50 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: to me this sounds as if it should go to powerkernel-modules rather than CSSU? |
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| 15:22.17 | Pali | but osso-wlan is core part of maemo |
| 15:22.18 | *** join/#maemo kimitake (~kimitake@netblock-68-183-249-89.dslextreme.com) |
| 15:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | ok so first criterion met |
| 15:23.37 | DocScrutinizer | will it fix a bug or flaw in stock kernel, or bring a widely requested new feature while keeping former functionality? |
| 15:23.40 | Pali | and in this patch is nothing with packet injection. it only fix using packet injection driver and i'm using it with origin wl1251 driver without problems |
| 15:24.11 | DocScrutinizer | s/kernel/system/ |
| 15:25.27 | Pali | from changelog: osso-wlan Fixed: WLAN connection get stuck after disconnecting through moving out of range (in combination with compat-wireless driver) |
| 15:25.51 | smhar | My N900 was stolen and I got myself a new one from ebay. it has been a while since I last checked, but is there a new update (or a plan to) to the maemo OS? the last I used was PR1.3 |
| 15:26.06 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I gather the compat-wireless driver can be used with stock kernel? |
| 15:26.45 | DocScrutinizer | smhar: still 1.3 |
| 15:27.00 | kerio | smhar: PR1.3 plus CSSU |
| 15:27.41 | smhar | DocScrutinizer, keesj , hmmm, is that it? the end of the line for updates? |
| 15:27.56 | DocScrutinizer | probably |
| 15:27.57 | smhar | DocScrutinizer, keesj and what is CSS? |
| 15:28.02 | Pali | packet injection patches are based on compat-wireless and compat-wireless can be compiled on kernel-power (or kernel without static linked mac80211 module) |
| 15:28.49 | Pali | stock nokia kernel has static linked mac80211 so you need to recompile stock without this module |
| 15:28.54 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: if compat-wireless isn't available for stock kernel, the we don't need nor want the patch for it in CSSU |
| 15:29.10 | smhar | kerio, what is CSSU? |
| 15:29.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~cssu |
| 15:29.20 | infobot | cssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 15:31.06 | Pali | DocScrutinizer: but I think that this problem with osso-wlan should be fixed. If you want to use packet-injection (or compat-wireless) you have to break maemo metapackage |
| 15:31.53 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: if it's related to PK only, it either has to go into PK-modules(-addon), or into a (yet to create) PK-tools_and_support category together with (yet to write) powertop that deals with PK's overclocking enabled frequency tables |
| 15:31.55 | Pali | cssu metapackage depends only on one version of osso-wlan package |
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| 15:33.39 | Pali | but I think it is not good solution to create package which replace file(s) of other maemo core packages |
| 15:34.34 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: so you say compat-wireless is working with PK only, but the fix meant for osso-wlan should go to CSSU. Hmmm, rather involuted situation |
| 15:36.09 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: how vast should the majority be? |
| 15:36.11 | kerio | i'm for the fix |
| 15:36.16 | *** join/#maemo mintux (~mrg@unaffiliated/mintux) |
| 15:36.29 | not_kerio | me too |
| 15:36.31 | DocScrutinizer | I think it *might* qualify for CSSU unless somebody comes up with a cleaner solution. But it definitely needs a very tough and thorough testing period with stock kernel to make sure it doesn't introduce regressions |
| 15:37.00 | Pali | compat-wireless can be compiled on stock kernel with CONFIG_CFG80211=m |
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| 15:37.35 | mintux | I upgrade my phone to pr1.3 but I lost most of my applications and I could not install anything. I need php-cli - I need debian chroot or kmplayer also games. I could not install anything on this phone :-( I had everything before upgrade |
| 15:37.42 | Pali | CSSU is now only one place which develop maemo core components |
| 15:38.06 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: but CSSU is based on stock kernel |
| 15:38.12 | SpeedEvil | mintux: You have checked you've got all the repos setup properly? |
| 15:38.51 | GAN900 | javispedro, out of stock. |
| 15:38.56 | mintux | SpeedEvil: yes.but most of the time each package need a lib or another things and could not install |
| 15:39.18 | javispedro | GAN900: seemingly it was the small and medium business store only. |
| 15:40.22 | DocScrutinizer | mintux: this is not a known problem, so odds are there's sth wrong with your particular device's setup |
| 15:41.15 | DocScrutinizer | mintux: some apps might not be compatible to PR1.3 and thus not available. But that's for sure not "most of the packages" |
| 15:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | mintux: so unless you pastebin some logs of actual examples of stuff failing, we probably can't help |
| 15:42.27 | mintux | for example |
| 15:42.32 | mintux | http://codepad.org/yTokzvtc |
| 15:43.09 | Pali | DocScrutinizer: why do you think that this patch should not be in CSSU? It only enable using packet injection without breaking system and with stock wl1251 driver I did not get any problems. |
| 15:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: CSSU is about fixing bugs in stock fremantle |
| 15:44.00 | mintux | DocScrutinizer: http://codepad.org/yTokzvtc |
| 15:44.27 | Pali | I think is is bug in fremantle, if I need to break system to properly use packet injection driver |
| 15:44.33 | DocScrutinizer | this patch is curing a problem of a stock component that doesn't show up unless you use a module that's not available on stock kernel |
| 15:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | so while this patch qualifies to be against a meta-PR component, it still is relevant only when you use powerkernel, aiui |
| 15:46.00 | DocScrutinizer | that'S why I was wondering if it belongs at all into CSSU |
| 15:46.14 | Sicelo | mintux: whih repos do you have enabled? |
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| 15:47.06 | DocScrutinizer | but as mentioned above it's a involuted setup of dependencies, and if we get it into CSSU it needs massive trsts to not introduce regressions for the majority of CSSU users that wouldn't even need this patch ever |
| 15:47.14 | mintux | or http://codepad.org/aN6RdsWO |
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| 15:48.07 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: your rationalew about missing packet injection == bug in fremantle would mean PK has to go to CSSU |
| 15:48.16 | DocScrutinizer | we can discuss this |
| 15:48.33 | Pali | no, kernel-power will never go to CSSU |
| 15:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | I think PK might qualify for CSSU |
| 15:48.36 | mintux | waiting for see repos |
| 15:49.47 | Sicelo | mintux: seems those packages are from devel |
| 15:49.55 | Pali | I think that this patch does not bring problem, see it. if socket_open() did not return error, this patch do nothing and if return EBUSY it try again socket_open() |
| 15:50.11 | mintux | I wait on checking update |
| 15:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | as afaik in PK there actually *are* a few bugs fixed that annoy in stock kernel and affect all users |
| 15:50.22 | lupine_85 | has downed his N900 to 250MHz, or at least that's what the screen says |
| 15:50.28 | mintux | it's not finished yet |
| 15:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: your brief description of what the patch does already makes me wonder if it could cause cpu hogging or even kernel freezes |
| 15:52.44 | *** join/#maemo mase76 (~mase76@pD9FF77E9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:52.45 | Pali | I did not get any problems until now. But maybe there was no other who tested it yet |
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| 15:54.53 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: such a patch definitely needs careful evaluation and peer review and an extended in-deepth investigating test period *on stock kernel* prior to inclusion into CSSU, to make sure it doesn't bring (possibly severe) regressions of any kind to CSSU users that do not use compat-wireless |
| 15:55.50 | GAN900 | I wonder how many employees took home TouchPads to hawk on eBay. |
| 15:56.04 | GAN900 | javispedro, they have it listed at MSRP. |
| 15:56.48 | Pali | I agree that is should be properly tested (with stock kernel) before release in CSSU |
| 15:56.51 | javispedro | home store url: http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/store_access.do?template_type=product_detail&product_code=FB355UA%23ABA&jumpid=in_R329_prodexp/hhoslp/psg_ipg/homepage/featured/1/home_featured1_hp_touchpad_88 (out of stock, but $99) |
| 15:58.42 | javispedro | GAN900: here http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?ProductUUID=hH0Q7EN5nJ8AAAEvWNkr_eNP&CatalogCategoryID=UZYQ7hac3LsAAAExQ1cRE3Kg&JumpTo=OfferList#ProductLinkCrossSelling |
| 15:59.55 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: how about packing a developer's evaluation package of that oatch, that quick-n-dirty replaces osso-wlan file on arbitrary systems, so a larger number of venturous testers can give it a try, so in a few weeks we get the thumbs-up of a larger number of qualified testers and then we can include it to CSSU and still sleep calm after that |
| 16:00.21 | javispedro | GAN900: but when added to the cart it goes back to MSRP :S |
| 16:01.31 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: I'd be willing to test it on my work-phone which has no compat-wireless and no powerkernel, but has CSSU installed |
| 16:01.53 | Pali | deb package with this patch which break maemo metapackage is part of packet-injection tarball: http://david.gnedt.eu/wl1251/wl1251-maemo-0.1.tar.gz |
| 16:01.54 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: I'm also frequently using 3 or 4 different WLANs with that phone |
| 16:02.23 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: cpqUtil error '800a0006' Overflow /dstore/dcart/include/u_util.asp, line 22 |
| 16:02.36 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: installing packet injection defeats the whole purpose of the test |
| 16:02.43 | javispedro | they're obviously having a hard time lol |
| 16:03.13 | Pali | you can install only osso-wlan deb package from this tarball :) |
| 16:04.00 | SpeedEvil | Oh - the UK store just reduced the price! From 349 pounds... |
| 16:04.07 | SpeedEvil | To 332 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 16:04.08 | SpeedEvil | OMG |
| 16:04.10 | DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer to have a one-click install that can and will be used by several people. Otherwise we won't get any decent testing |
| 16:04.11 | SpeedEvil | The bargainz |
| 16:04.14 | SpeedEvil | I haz to haz. |
| 16:05.00 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: that actually makes me think the liquidation won't cross the pond :( |
| 16:05.15 | Pali | DocScrutinizer: extracted osso-wlan package and uploaded to: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/osso-wlan_3.0.20+0m5-1_armel.deb |
| 16:05.30 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: the .es store didn't update prices and they seemingly use the same backend though |
| 16:07.03 | nid0 | uk store doesnt even let me buy it anyway :\ |
| 16:07.08 | nid0 | even at the full price |
| 16:07.32 | GAN900 | javispedro, if I can get my hands on any I'll see if I can get a few more. |
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| 16:08.51 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: ok, set up a 3-liner like "cd /user/MyDocs/tmp; wget http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/osso-wlan_3.0.20+0m5-1_armel.deb; cp /foo/bar/osso-wlan ../backups/; dpkg -i cp osso-wlan_3.0.20+0m5-1_armel.deb" and post all that to tmo under CSSU somewhere |
| 16:09.47 | SpeedEvil | nid0: That too, the link is broken. Accessories works though |
| 16:10.30 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: make sure you test how to revert this, and it reverts ok |
| 16:11.26 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: so in case sth blows chunks, testers can go back to original without much problems |
| 16:12.50 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: I'm especially concerned about apt's database when the module gets installed from a .deb via dpkg. Maybe I'm just not competent on this part, so please have a look at it |
| 16:13.37 | javispedro | http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=prod3900226&selectedTab=allProducts |
| 16:13.48 | javispedro | I guess we need to have a temporary channel for this though =) |
| 16:14.06 | nid0 | and ideally with somewhere in the uk at that price :p |
| 16:14.11 | javispedro | (that's 32 GiB model, 16 GiB says out of stock) |
| 16:14.11 | *** join/#maemo macmaN (~chezburge@138.167.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 16:17.41 | GAN900 | Available online or instore only? |
| 16:18.12 | javispedro | seemingly online albeit the link's being already shared everywhere so I'll doubt it'll be available by now =) |
| 16:18.16 | javispedro | this is real madness :) |
| 16:18.30 | javispedro | Nokia should have done similarly for the N950s ;) |
| 16:18.40 | GAN900 | lol |
| 16:18.41 | *** join/#maemo Zahra (~Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax) |
| 16:18.42 | javispedro | albeit then I would have truly cried if people asked to install Android on them |
| 16:19.24 | GAN900 | Ugh |
| 16:19.28 | GAN900 | Android needs to die |
| 16:20.28 | Pali | DocScrutinizer: better for testing will be only replace file /usr/sbin/wlancond (not installing full package) and backup old |
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| 16:21.37 | MohammadAG | ##touchpadbargains ? |
| 16:22.02 | javispedro | MohammadAG: heh |
| 16:23.16 | javispedro | hm... nseries @ twitter asking whether we prefer the N8 or the N900 |
| 16:23.36 | javispedro | I ponder if that's ironic or what. maybe they read about the warranty N8-instead-of-N900 stories. |
| 16:24.29 | MohammadAG | javispedro, shops to? |
| 16:24.34 | MohammadAG | ships* |
| 16:24.46 | javispedro | MohammadAG: US only afaiu |
| 16:25.07 | MohammadAG | how much is shipping to Seattle? |
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| 16:28.44 | javispedro | no idea |
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| 16:29.45 | GAN900 | Usually flatrate |
| 16:29.58 | GAN900 | No more than $15 for ground. |
| 16:31.18 | javispedro | it's the first time I see a quite funny race condition on a PHP forum software |
| 16:31.31 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube (~ghost@unaffiliated/ghostcube) |
| 16:31.40 | jacekowski | where? |
| 16:32.01 | GAN900 | People who get Saturdays off suck |
| 16:32.14 | jacekowski | you suck too |
| 16:32.29 | javispedro | maybe not that funny: after fetching the last page number but before fetching the actual posts the last page number is out of date |
| 16:32.38 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: that's what I thought |
| 16:32.58 | javispedro | so you get the last 20 posts but not the correct page number. |
| 16:33.09 | javispedro | or similar brokenness I've already not fully understood. |
| 16:33.14 | javispedro | s/already/yet |
| 16:34.20 | Pali | DocScrutinizer: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1073631#post1073631 |
| 16:36.54 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: top - that's how all CSSU patches should get handled :-D |
| 16:37.07 | GAN900 | likely would've had a TouchPad. |
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| 16:42.53 | Pali | DocScrutinizer: if you install patched osso-wlan with stock kernel, let me know if all works ok |
| 16:43.03 | Pali | I'm going offline. |
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| 16:50.37 | javispedro | for the sake of god, not TMO too wanting to port Android. |
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| 17:05.22 | GAN900 | lol |
| 17:07.27 | GAN900 | Why would anybody want to use Android |
| 17:07.31 | GAN900 | I just don't get it. |
| 17:07.45 | MohammadAG | cause it has a sliding down notification bar duh |
| 17:07.57 | MohammadAG | when iOS 5 hits all android users will switch |
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| 17:29.43 | crashanddie_ | so |
| 17:29.44 | GAN900 | Android has done uncalculable damage to the Open Source movement |
| 17:29.52 | GAN900 | Google is such a despicable company. |
| 17:29.54 | crashanddie_ | who got a touchpad? |
| 17:29.59 | GAN900 | (enough hyper-bowl?) |
| 17:30.02 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (~vivijim@nat/intel/x-mzdngcvequerpnwm) |
| 17:30.03 | GAN900 | Not me |
| 17:30.07 | GAN900 | Had to work today. |
| 17:30.07 | crashanddie_ | GAN900: you got one, or too far south? |
| 17:30.56 | crashanddie_ | I'm really bummed |
| 17:31.05 | crashanddie_ | because most french companies are closed for the weekend |
| 17:31.46 | GAN900 | I had to work, so no camping at Office Depot at 8 AM. |
| 17:32.08 | crashanddie_ | well, maybe you can buy one off qole |
| 17:35.45 | GAN900 | Pff |
| 17:35.53 | GAN900 | It'll have qole cooties all over it. |
| 17:36.03 | GAN900 | and, worse, /Canadian/ cooties. |
| 17:36.09 | crashanddie_ | haha |
| 17:37.14 | crashanddie_ | just called one of the main retailers |
| 17:38.43 | crashanddie_ | they're not aware of any price changes |
| 17:38.50 | crashanddie_ | even though they know about the price changes in the US |
| 17:38.59 | crashanddie_ | HP being shut for the weekend doesn't help |
| 17:40.09 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (~vivijim@134.134.139.70) |
| 17:40.23 | crashanddie_ | And one of the biggest (if not _the_) online retailers has removed all references of it from their website |
| 17:41.52 | crashanddie_ | This may sound really weird but... Sucks not to be Canadian. |
| 17:41.54 | GAN900 | There's a kid here with a lightsaber application of his dad's iPhone and he's running around waving it all over the place. |
| 17:42.50 | GAN900 | Meh |
| 17:42.56 | GAN900 | They can have the TouchPad |
| 17:43.08 | GAN900 | I have warm weather and sandy beaches |
| 17:43.13 | GAN900 | Among other benefits. |
| 17:44.52 | crashanddie_ | haha |
| 17:46.31 | crashanddie_ | Just saw an interview with a GIGN guy (equivalent of SWAT). He guy had both index fingers and both pinkies shot off clean in 4 different incidents |
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| 17:47.31 | crashanddie_ | Two quotes: "The third time I lost a finger, I was used to the pain and thought "Oh well"" |
| 17:48.06 | crashanddie_ | "No, losing a few fingers isn't really difficult. Just be at the wrong place at the wrong time. None of those who hurt me are still alive though" |
| 17:48.34 | crashanddie_ | is happy to work behind a desk. |
| 17:49.09 | GAN900 | Needs to stop sticking his hands around doorways. |
| 17:49.35 | flux | I guess whatever was to be learned of those incidents, he didn't quite learn it :/ |
| 17:51.27 | crashanddie_ | To be fair, I'd rather lose a finger than my heartbeat |
| 17:53.27 | *** join/#maemo hiemanshu_N950 (~ircchatte@122.167.215.105) |
| 17:54.04 | crashanddie_ | What do you guys think about the alleged hacked website? |
| 17:54.14 | crashanddie_ | (HP's French and UK websites, that is) |
| 17:55.05 | GAN900 | Hadn't heard. |
| 17:56.59 | crashanddie_ | Well, when you play the touchpad's video presentations, you get this indian woman saying how she wants to be "a perfect slave... er, employee" |
| 17:57.12 | crashanddie_ | work long hours without even asking for overtime payment, etc. |
| 17:57.12 | GAN900 | Nice |
| 17:57.24 | GAN900 | Typically French. :P |
| 17:57.31 | crashanddie_ | Well |
| 17:57.36 | crashanddie_ | More British, really. |
| 18:02.59 | Primes | is there a way to see what app manager is doing behind the scenes? Does it call apt-get, or is there some logfile where I can see what went wrong? |
| 18:07.47 | crashanddie_ | Primes: app manager uses dpkg directly |
| 18:08.37 | Primes | so does dpkg write any kind of logfile showing the reason for a failure? |
| 18:08.59 | crashanddie_ | not really |
| 18:09.03 | crashanddie_ | you fapman or something |
| 18:09.21 | ShadowJK | there's a log in the app manager itself |
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| 18:10.07 | Primes | I have this problem in both appman and fapman |
| 18:11.48 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@82.113.99.41) |
| 18:11.56 | Primes | a bad installation of ndg shows in appman as "broken but updateable". Doing uninstall shows "unable to uninstall ndg, but gives no further details |
| 18:12.24 | Primes | Then "internal error, app manager closed" (usually) |
| 18:14.56 | Primes | Trying to update ndg in app mgr gives "operation failed" |
| 18:14.58 | crashanddie_ | Primes: remove the packages manually |
| 18:15.11 | Primes | how could I do this? |
| 18:15.20 | Primes | apt-get remove? |
| 18:15.22 | crashanddie_ | with apt-get |
| 18:15.36 | crashanddie_ | use the simulation to check |
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| 18:16.35 | Primes | I tried apt-get remove ndg before , but it gives "E: The package ndg needs to be reinstalled, but O cant find an archive for it" |
| 18:16.57 | Primes | what is "use the simulation to check" |
| 18:17.26 | Primes | apt-get INSTALL ndg gives the same error |
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| 18:18.11 | Primes | I was installing ndg using fapman when I ran out of disk space. fapman may have different repo configured |
| 18:25.43 | MohammadAG | dpkg -r ndg |
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| 18:34.24 | MohammadAG | anyone up for some reverse engineering of instinctiv's code? |
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| 18:46.29 | vi___ | yo |
| 18:46.50 | vi___ | I keep getting the message 'internal error, email closing' every few seconds |
| 18:47.03 | vi___ | what package contains the 'email' |
| 18:47.04 | vi___ | ? |
| 18:47.09 | vi___ | so I may re-install it. |
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| 19:01.39 | ruskie | vi___, modest&friends |
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| 19:11.13 | yigal | I'm reformatting my micro sd card in my n900 dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1, but it's taking quite some time for an 8gb class 4, slow card, how long should I expect to wait? |
| 19:11.30 | yigal | an hour? |
| 19:11.37 | ruskie | you really shouldn't be using dd unless you have a sane reason |
| 19:11.38 | kerio | ...why would you do that? :/ |
| 19:11.40 | MohammadAG | umm, just mkfs? |
| 19:11.46 | kerio | what MohammadAG said |
| 19:12.46 | yigal | I wanted to make sure it was done right, is mkfs as good for this purpose |
| 19:13.10 | kerio | do you want to zero the card? |
| 19:13.22 | kerio | or do you just want to reformat it? |
| 19:13.30 | kerio | they're two different things |
| 19:13.44 | yigal | I don't really care about other's seeing what I had on there previously |
| 19:13.50 | yigal | so mkfs is fine |
| 19:13.53 | yigal | you're right |
| 19:13.54 | kerio | then just mkfs |
| 19:14.09 | yigal | should I be able to ^c without issue? |
| 19:14.11 | kerio | yeah |
| 19:14.14 | yigal | k |
| 19:15.48 | vi___ | yigal: lol, wut |
| 19:15.53 | vi___ | dd to format? |
| 19:16.04 | vi___ | are you on drugs? |
| 19:16.06 | yigal | ya that's fast :) |
| 19:16.07 | kerio | it's a mono-file filesystem |
| 19:16.34 | ShadowJK | The default settings make N900 slow at massive amounts of sequential I/O |
| 19:16.37 | yigal | vi___: I want to use the micro sd to root my nook touch |
| 19:16.40 | ShadowJK | and by "slow" I mean glacial |
| 19:17.37 | vi___ | yigal: mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p0 |
| 19:17.41 | vi___ | job done |
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| 19:17.44 | yigal | to write the image I should use dd, but I just wanted to reformat it first before dding in the image as I had issues with the image just dding i |
| 19:17.46 | vi___ | oopz |
| 19:17.50 | vi___ | yigal: mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk1p0 |
| 19:17.52 | MohammadAG | p1 vi___ |
| 19:17.56 | yigal | vi___: no thanks |
| 19:17.56 | vi___ | yigal: mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk1p1 |
| 19:18.02 | yigal | vi___: please stop |
| 19:18.10 | MohammadAG | which image are we talking? |
| 19:18.26 | yigal | touchnooter-1-6-24.img |
| 19:18.36 | yigal | it's http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1132693 |
| 19:19.17 | yigal | it's 118MB in an 8GB card |
| 19:19.27 | vi___ | yigal: that is the one with an eink screen right? |
| 19:19.33 | yigal | yeps |
| 19:19.57 | yigal | I tried http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1132693 str8 and it wasn't recognized by the nook |
| 19:20.01 | yigal | oops |
| 19:20.11 | yigal | dd if=touchnooter-1-6-24.img of=/dev/sdcard |
| 19:20.39 | yigal | /dev/mmcblk1 |
| 19:20.48 | yigal | any suggestions :) |
| 19:21.07 | MohammadAG | well |
| 19:21.17 | MohammadAG | is the image one of a block device or a partition |
| 19:21.27 | yigal | ah, block |
| 19:21.30 | MohammadAG | writing a partition image to a block device can't be right :P |
| 19:21.30 | yigal | duh |
| 19:21.39 | yigal | auto face palm |
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| 19:38.40 | yigal | so nice a useful ebook reader now |
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| 19:52.00 | vi___ | MohammadAG: hey, has anything funky been pushed in modest as of late? |
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| 21:57.14 | ShadowJK | grrr. My N900 is saying "Media format not supported" for videos taken with the N900 camera |
| 21:57.21 | ShadowJK | has also forgotten how to fix |
| 21:57.35 | DocScrutinizer | reboot |
| 21:57.48 | ShadowJK | that's not a fix |
| 21:57.49 | DocScrutinizer | DSP locked up |
| 21:57.56 | ShadowJK | it kills everything else I've got going on |
| 21:58.02 | ShadowJK | and I have to reopen everything |
| 22:01.30 | ShadowJK | ooh yay, "stop dsp; start dsp; stop dsp-manager; start dsp-manager", followed by killing everything matching ps aux|grep mafw and gst |
| 22:04.26 | Sicelo | makes a note :) |
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| 22:05.45 | ShadowJK | might've leaked humongous amounts of ram |
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| 22:33.41 | DocScrutinizer | X-D |
| 22:35.28 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: make a queenbeecon button and a script for it :-D Publish! |
| 22:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | that'd be a healthcheck I'd like to see: check all reasonably testable subsystems for status, show diagnostics, offer to start recover effort |
| 22:43.11 | Shapeshifter | Mh. I want to write a simple server for ytcli that will offload the transcoding off the n900. I can of course use it myself without a problem, but is it unwise to offer it to others considering that it's breaching youtube TOS? I mean, downloading videos on a server, transcoding them and then passing them on |
| 22:44.33 | Shapeshifter | the advantage with youtube-dl and all the other tools is that the choice of violating TOS is with the user |
| 22:45.24 | ShadowJK | does youtube TOS ban youtube-dl? |
| 22:45.58 | Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: yes, because it's A) not allowed to 'copy' content from youtube and B) it's only allowed to view the media through means provided by youtube |
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| 22:46.43 | ShadowJK | So what's the difference between your software and youtube-dl from that point of view? Or, are you talking about letting other people use your actual server (as in computer, not software)? |
| 22:46.44 | Shapeshifter | but they wont go after every used. However if I were to use youtube-dl in a server-side service and users would be using my server, I would be quasi rehosting stuff. |
| 22:46.54 | Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: yes, hardware |
| 22:46.57 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 22:47.05 | Shapeshifter | s/used/user |
| 22:47.25 | ShadowJK | I thought there was a youtueb fmt that was pretty close to N900 capabilities anyway |
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| 22:47.58 | Shapeshifter | it's a pity because all in all, the n900 just sucks at playing youtube videos. It's impossible to play anything without encountering hickups. |
| 22:48.41 | ShadowJK | I use gpodder to follow a youtube channel, and it downloads and plays it in media player.. I think it's 640x360 maybe |
| 22:48.44 | Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: not really. playing in what? Using microb and the flash plugin, they usually play but will stutter when opening the task manager or doing other stuff. using mplayer, they just randomly stop and you have to press pause twice. |
| 22:49.07 | Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: interesting |
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| 23:46.56 | steverm | hello am having a problem browsing the web on n900 can someone help |
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| 23:49.59 | steverm | here's my iwlist wlan0 scanning something feels so wrong http://paste.ubuntu.com/671352/ |
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